##VIDEO ID:IxqIeBo0SGU## and Pat and Ed are not able to be with us tonight I would like to quickly review the agenda we will have um any public comment liaison reports we'll have an update from the OPM on financials um msba report and schedule a sustainability update and then a designer update on um the msba um FAS presentation that we had and the schematic design work plan um we will warrant won't be on this agenda um and we'll review and approve meeting minutes and then talk about um upcoming and next meetings and topics so we will start is there any public comment any public comment online uh yes Raymond order for a public comment go ahead Ray uh Ray border 529 Franklin Street also uh rmlb um commissioner um the um schematic design talks about add a um additional uh schematic design task including generator size study um I recommend talking about emergency power rather than generator size we consider solar and I I think we have someone from rmld um attending your meeting today that can talk about solar a part of the solar roof would be a battery um and these are fairly significant size type systems which are used not only for Keat power shifting but would serve as a a battery backup for outages uh sufficient to do a shelter in place uh for temporary outages um certainly considering emerging power needs is an important uh schematic design concept but I wouldn't limit it to generators uh and request that we include solar um and a part of the schematic Design's task is an energy feasibility study uh I again I understand the value of that um in that feasibility study of considering the revenues and credits that could be obtained from the application of solar panels to the facility um would give a better picture of what the value can be by having an electric building um since the town of Ric has their handy dandy right around the corner Municipal lightake District of with very favorable power rates um you including their concept for solar power the capacity that could be generated uh and and credits that could be obtained uh would be a good thing to engage as we consider those topics um going going electric means having electric demand and having solar cells to meet that demand and uh having a battery to store power uh when the solar panels are delivering it all kind of adds to having a green facility um and bring value to the found of reading in terms of not having power costs that need to go offset uh preclude spending money on student needs um that concludes my public comment thank you thanks Ray any other public comment come on up state your name please hello my name is Molly O'Keefe I'm an integrated resources engineer at R Municipal light department I just wanted to piggyback off of um Ray's comment and say that reading uh Municipal light is very interested in partnering with kilum school building project as well as um investigating um any sources of battery backup um and sizing the solar system we'd like to help if we can sper any other online public comment okay seeing none we uh liaison updates or liaison reports but anybody from the committee like to make a report okay okay I will I think my stuff will be incorporated throughout the presentation so we'll move on to OPM updates shle okay good evening just be with me I'm just going to share my screen all right I believe everyone online can see this is that correct yes we can great thank you for for me good evening um so first uh up the financial reports is our um is our summary uh project budget uh cost analysis again we typically don't spend much time on this given that you do have this as a backup but ultimately um the backup is in what we're going to review in the next couple of slides but if anyone has any questions we can certainly go through that but before I get to the next page but again usually it's in the back up moving on uh our project budget adjustments as you can see uh typically um anything in Gray we don't have anything new to report but this um slide is usually to go through any move of contingency um and again there is nothing new in this slide to report out so I can move on if anyone has any questions on the slide great next is the committed costs um this is for new contracts new POS amendments change orders uh what was requested and reviewed and approved was the T Teddy energy modeling for LBA for Amendment 8 for 16,500 um again this is kind of just to note that this is something that was reviewed and approved but wanted to bring this up to the SBC group can we just quickly for everybody just explain what that amendment is sure yep go ahead we explain what the actual thing is sure that would be great okay um the teddy model is for the stretch code it's one of the only ways to meet the stretch code which is actually a pre pre- requisite now uh for your project and that is the amount of money that it would take our energy consultant to do that model we want to do a model an energy model anyway but it's it's a very specific one and it was necessary and thank you that's it y does anyone have any questions oh go ahead Mike I was just going to add a little more to that just so everybody understands that um when we hired LBA we hired them with the msba based contract and that contract defined what is the basic services and what are extra over the basics uh energy modeling is extra over the basic it was anticipated and we have budget for it that's why on the last page uh what um we indicated what Shirley showed you is that there is no budget adjustments and we didn't have to spend contingency here it's it's basically being covered within the line as anticipated thank you Mike for adding that appreciate it all right if there's no questions I'll move on to the committed costs this is uh just again just a remind everyone uh the the invoice for July came after the last SBC meeting which was earlier in the month but um the last uh invoices of June July and August are presented for the cost um committed costs so that's what we have presented and I can certainly go to these um invoices if need or we can come back to this piece if I you like me to continue to the next slide or we can review them now if you have any preference W you review can you review them now now sure sure okay um again uh we have the month of July which again we have these slides um for LBA it's the 52 sorry just want to make sure this is for the month of I don't know if we have to go through each and every one of them what just give us an overview okay overview sure of course month of July uh for LBA was 52,0 27550 and then um for Colliers for the month of July was the 24,95 4 uh and then for the August for um CPL was 26,1 197 and then lb's month of August is all broken out but it's the uh feasibility and then um the schematic piece of it but again all things we can revisit if needed but um it's the standard July and August invoices great as far as the cash flow goes uh we this is where we kind of review the cash coming in but also um it's EV and flows with contingency as of this month we're showing um under the 165,000 uh which is better noticed in the um cash flow graph but as we obviously had a little bit more of a spike on the last month as we were working through the PD and FAS submissions but we're still uh projecting to the goods for the cash flow update that's said I believe that ends my financial updates unless there's any other questions or concerns in the uh last okay oh go ahead M sorry okay and I'll do it in the last line of the previous um keep going okay this one last line um the last very bottom line on the right hand side you've got it includes soil testing is that the original soil testing that was done and they're just catching up with the invoices or is this something new don't um that soil test was um the soil testing done by um the civil engineer for the uh infiltration that was the test pits yes not Bings correct okay so that's it's a new one in other words not yeah mik did you have yeah the two comment I had is I think the the amendment on the previous page I believe that that has already been executed but I I believe we were looking for a a vote of acknowledgement on that and then on the invoices Carl I know you and I talked a little bit earlier about this um are we going to do a vote to allow those to go into the next warrant and that's why we don't have the warrant tonight that would be into the next warrant going forward is that how we're going to do it yes we're gonna we're gonna um figure out our process for warrant and I will have that done by the next meeting um and we'll do some catchup because we will have to do some catchup on that piece of it um but tonight we'll vote on um Amendment 8 for LBA and we'll vote on the listed um invoices and if I can just on Amendment 8 I believe it was already executed so it's just a vote of acknowledgement not a a yes or a no but on the invoices it would be yes or no on okay thank you okay um should we vote y y you want a motion so you want a motion to acknowledge the 16,500 from LBA for the teddy energy modeling Amendment yep Amendment 8 is there a second second okay and any discussion thanks Carla so where do we find out what amendment number it is so if you see it on um under notes am LBA Amendment oh all right yep okay thank you you need to put your glasses on for that I got them on that's the problem all right uh seeing no questions we will take a roll call Sean yes Kirk yes John yes Chris yes Greg yes Nancy yes and Carla yes and it passes then you need another motion to accept or to pay is that how you want it to to approve y to approve the charges uh from 81924 through 91724 including lavier uh resinger Architects and col your project leaders costs second second and a second by gred any discussion seeing none we'll take a roll call Sean yes Kirk yes John yes Chris yes Greg yes Nancy yes and Carla yes that passes as well thank you Shirley wonderful thank you just by back to the agenda msba reports thank you yes um so the msba reports we typically submit um every month uh there's not much uh new for the msba itself for reporting as as far as just we're keeping an eye out of the PDP there's some questions that came out that we're going to be responding to and then of course we had the FAS presentation which we will be giving you a brief overview um soon after in the design updates but aside from that that's kind of just a high level overview for the um msba reporting we had a an FAS um presentation which um LBA will talk about on September 11th and had a meeting on schematic design with msba as well um so I'm sure you guys will talk about that as well great great and then in regards to the schedule again we'll dive into this a little bit more we actually have some high level overviews for the schedule not much has change on our end um but we can review it at the presentation designer update and then again sustainability update as well um is also a slide that we have embedded in the design updates so we can get to that for that piece unless there's any questions on it now so we're not going to have any additional conversation other than what's in the FAS is that right for for sustainability dless you have anything else to add so if I can I think we have a slide just talking about the goals of what we're going to be working towards okay over the next month or so all right great okay I'm just gonna move that back to your slides you go thank you Charlie thank you yeah I'm not sure how to change [Music] presentation we GNA do this do it oh it's the FAS slides to just tap down to all right um hi everybody uh some people in this uh group were actually present for the FAS presentation to the um to the msba facilities assessment subcommittee is what it stands for these are some of the people that are actually on the mspa board um I have found it to be very important because the three people from the msba there um are no they're The Gatekeepers can this move on or not um one of them is from the doe the Department of Education it's a lot about education and did we listen to our um to the to the uh visioning and to the teachers and to the superintendent are we doing a building um that connects that um and then um actually another uh person on there is an educational expert and uh one of them is an architect also so you will see that we created a three-dimensional image to show them on the site please know that it is not a final design it is so but it'll probably look like you're building how you've started to imagine it it is not um goofy or anything it's it's pretty straightforward it's so that they can start to see scale distances Heights and and why we did things so what I'm going to do is I'm just going to go through and tell you what we told what the purpose of the slide is and what we told them so that you can um know what it was all about um I'm going to I'm going to tell you before we even get started that it went very well and we had almost no um comments certainly no negative comments a few like Hey try this try that and that is exactly the way you want it to go because now we're in a schematic design and that's the goal so they always want us to start by showing a map of the of the district and uh saying a little bit about the the town and uh Carla talked to this she did a wonderful job thank you and what we are really just trying to say here was hey there's five elementary schools and there's kilum and there's also these we wanted to introduce them to this idea of this rise pre program which is dispersed throughout town and really the kind of town that you are which is a pragmatic Town who cares about sustainability and other things we wanted to we we wanted to let them know that we had met um quite often with the with members from the community and listen to them and come up with these pillars so to speak of Education the community centered realistic sustainability health safety and health and sense of belonging these are the things by which we judged and continue to judge our options we really wanted them to know how many and the types of um Outreach and workshops we did they care deeply that we do the this Outreach and engagement um and so we talked about the project Charter and all the site the neighborhood site traffic meetings that we had and still have um and how we keep on and how we've already met with police and select board a little bit and did Alternatives and showed it and we also um um complemented your project website as being very well done um Tom actually practiced and talked about the next couple of slides which were one just to say what educational visioning was like and what are the some of the things that Phil philosophical or curricular goals they had so he went through and talked a lot about flexibility and distinct learning neighborhoods and professional development things like that and how everyone was involved in that you know the the actual educational visioning group was it is a very uh uh was a group that had people from the town and lots of different he did a great job but this next page was the one that they really key on as Educators uh for the MSB State really try he he talked very well about this how really we have a a rise pre which they're not supporting it's not part of their enrollment the K through 5 enrollment although they are giving us some reimbursement for the classrooms so they're very touchy about so if you see on the bottom it says msba enrollment 4555 there's actually 630 30 or so um kids at the school uh 635 I guess uh when you count rise but you know we wanted to show them that we the way we broke this down is that there was a common entry there was a rise prek as its own kind of school and then there were was a a k through two and a 3 through five and you see that on the floor plans when you look at it and they like that because that helps them understand that we're creating smaller learning um uh neighborhoods which is what they want to hear here and he talked about the grade pods he talked about how this group liked this classrooms surrounding a central the donut scheme around the media center how important that was and we had some future um enrollment classrooms that help us get through a high a hard time and how special education was inclusive and dispersed all that kind of stuff what Tom really did was set us up so when we looked at the floor plans they said oh that's what they needed and that's that's what we did so we did that so we did a great job and then for sustainability what we talked about was the concept these are realistic goals we haven't decided on all systems and things like that but realistic goals are to are to pursue an all electric facility that aligns with all of reading's energy initiatives to be climate resilient which people have talked about when people just mentioned the idea of generator there being climate uh res but there's other aspects and reduced carbon footprint thank you very much and and they and then um Outdoor Learning spaces and the wow Center and this is a model for your town in some way for development um and to consider all of the the incentive programs in IRA and all these payback things these are the these are those things that kind of rise up for you um you're less you're less um focused on certain things and more focused on some of the bigger things then we had to take them through um because they they don't live here we took them through the existing site conditions and basically we're just trying to let them know that it's a smaller site with a only seven acres that there's surrounded by neighbor Neighbors there's no Wetlands or anything like that but there are some traffic and parking issues and uh and how the existing schooled is only one story so that sets them up to start looking at what we got to they're not interested in this particular presentation in seeing all the options they literally say we don't want to see all the options you've already gone through and show us the option you came up with and tell us why so that's why you're not going to see like me jumping all over the place so um this shows in a in a kind of more broad way how we have a three-story footprint which you scen how specific that is and why it's three story because if you see the existing building uh footprint it has to stay there and that's the only place we can build so they understood our constraints and how we wanted to minimize School disruption by putting it on that field in that way we car and we talked to them about um about resolving some of the site grading a little bit how there is some grade on the site and how we wanted to improve the the queuing and the Bus drop off and get the cars off the street and all that kind of stuff for safety and buses and uh they understood it and I think they for the most part liked it and then we go even further so we're zooming in and on this site plan they always want to see the the first floor plan there because they want to understand the relationship of the building to the site how maybe you come down the gym or the cafeteria opens up into a play area or where thing is and I think the important things we're here to stress were that it's the most efficient plan that we came up with um it really maximized the site area and really minimized the disruption to the existing school um as much as any building on the site can unless it was a seven story building you know they understood right away three story was was the answer here and uh the AR The Architects already looking at this like an architect when we're on the board then we go in and we show them the floor plan and they again they care really about the organization so we show some we I like to show them some pictures from other jobs we may have worked on or somebody did that seem to be the kind of space we might be looking for um we talked about that on the first floor how you enter and there's the organization of the the double the admin for the K5 and also the admin for the um for the rise being in the same secure vestibule but then after that you go into the other room they were happy to hear that rise was its own school because it is clearly its own place here we didn't understand why it was not integrated because it doesn't want to be and so we went through those kinds of things learning neighborhoods and then we went to the second two floors which I explained was kind of like that's where the K through 5 happens it's like a floating School two and three are where all those kids are above and uh you can see the I explain the the different grade uh K through two on that first level and the and the media in the center almost like an indoor Courtyard because it's a two-story space that allows light in and kind of connects everything and once they once they heard had heard about the educ ational thing they Flex spaces out in the hall and those things they really got it uh they we showed them special education which is in yellow here and how it was really integrated dispersed and um you know in different areas and they for the most part like that but we have to go through a process with that so I think they really understood um the floor plan they ask certain questions like what about orientation well we explain it's really difficult on this site with this constraint to have a north south kind a building so we're bringing in light we in different ways and different views and we will do with glare and things like that they ask those kinds of questions so it's a good thing that we went over them and talked about them all and then so many of you might not have seen this yet or you looked at your packet so we took about a week and really thought about the kind of buildings that we do with the SBA and at this at this level Mak make um a design that's this is completely based on your floor plan and it's part of the model and all we really did was we tried to create a first floor scale because the first uh floor is like smaller kids and maybe it wants to be softer and and certain things like the gym are kind of floating up higher in the whole second floor and then there are things like the the entrance and the stairs and things that might pop through and then there are monitor is lighting light down into the building and we wanted to show them how this could be a building that fits in the neighborhood even though it's a contempor you know it's a school it has but it could have brick and it can have more materials and some wood or finale and panels and things like that and function very well as a three-story building and I think if you look at it you start to see how that can how that can work I hopefully you look at this and you don't say oh my God you know you look at it and say oh that's that seems reasonable um it's not designed it's not done but it is um a a wonderful first step to show you because we're going to have meetings about materials and look at different scale items and things like that but it pretty much is the shape of your school and where it is on the site was very important to them how it kind of intimately um it what this building does is it kind of blocks off the street it has a little bit of area there and then allows the rest of the thing to be part of the neighborhood and then we showed it from the other side so if you imagine that street down there is Hil and it shows the the 60 ft of land that goes all the way along that could be patio it could be Outdoor Learning could be rise play and they had some nice comments about that but one of the things we really talked about here was the scale and how if you look at the building you might have the one story scale and then it steps up on the two ends where the houses are so if you look on the left you see how it's like a two-story it might be different panels and that's where the it meets the residential and on the other side is where the cafetorium is and that's twostory or one and a half or so and so that's lower to that house and those things so we're already starting to explain to them how we're trying to stitch this together and make it feel even though it is a larger building like it can belong and you know and it has variation and material and things like that does that all make sense I we we also showed the section through the whole site so on that section on the very left is Charles Street and the build and the site actually does kind of flow down a little bit as you go um I think John talked about that section and how if we made the building the same height as the existing building it would be raised up quite High we think that there's a way to kind of mediate between there find a a way a place where when you're walking along hav roll it rises up a little bit but still feels good and then maybe is a little lower than the existing School we're going to be talking to reble and trying to find the perfect spot for the for the building to be um but you can also see in that section the concept of bringing light down to the middle and sharing it out which is a wonderful sustainable future it's it's the way to light things evenly so you have Windows and you have internal and they like to see that and they liked it um and the scale was very important to me and then we just tell them what was different from the msba GU basic guidelines and they had no questions or thoughts about that these are just things that you wanted to make your building work for you nothing really crazy here it's just the stuff and we showed them the very basic uh timeline so that they understood that you were shooting for the fall of 2028 for move in although it could be earlier in right I mean it's always possible so we're all looking at that as we move forward but how we were on time and moving forward and we showed them the last four options that you had and the um costs um analysis of those at least at this preliminary level and as we go um as we go through SD obviously we get much more detail on this one scheme and we develop a cost that's specifically to that building itself um so and we can do some value engineering we can we can balance priorities and get to their the building that we want and that is when they said blah blah blah blah blah and they said some things that were actually fairly kind and then said a couple days later yeah it looks like you're probably moving on let's move into schematic design even though the board meeting is for a few weeks it felt like it was right felt like it was just moving forward and so we could just keep going and that is what happened so thank you to LBA for putting in a presentation together because the slides were awesome and they were really happy with it and um just really thrilled with it as were we so thank you um so going forward from um the FAS which was really the culmination of the the whole feasibility study phase everything we've been doing up till now um we are moving on to schematic design um the msba is still this is our schedule for schematic design that I'll take you through the msba is still reviewing the PSR we haven't received their comments yet eventually we will receive their comments and then we'll give our comments back on their comments um but that's all going to lead up to um an msba board vote on October 30th where based on the how well FAS went we anticipate that the board will vote the project to move forward into SD schematic design um so this is a schedule that lays out um kind of the key um Milestone dates for um schematic design and these dates across the top are weeks um we have Christmas is on a Wednesday so it's I've kind of blocked out these two weeks the week of I don't know holiday time um so we have our um the first line here with the circles is our SBC meetings um which are uh a little bit less frequent in the beginning um next one will be October the week of October oober 21st um and then toward the end they're more frequent every 2 weeks um the XLT will meet every week prior to the SBC meeting we have three Community meetings planned the topics are um site and Community use that's on October 23rd um traffic that's on November 4th and sustainability that's the week of December 9th but I don't recall the dat um check back um and then the rest of these items are kind of like um some of not all of the categories of work that will be sort of the buckets of tasks that we be proceeding um throughout schematic design so we'll be meeting with the the elt the educational leadership team we will be um reviewing um the program and doing um room data sheets and layouts so kind of laying out each typical classroom each typical space in the school um meeting with teachers to make sure we have the right cabinets sinks Outlets all those things um we will start working on instructional technology and audio visual so we we have a consultant who's covering this area so we'll meet with some representatives from the school the district it um department and um our consultant to um basically get a um at a pretty high level at this stage understand what the instructional technology needs are we'll look at security I know this is a huge topic um School Safety and Security and will involve um school and District staff as well as Town staff and police and fire in those discussions um in early December uh we will have um kind of gone through the schematic design um design process refined our design um and created our plans and narratives which will be cost estimated um starting December 9th and then kind of continuing um to the other side of the holiday and then we'll of review that cost estimate and do some value engineering if necessary and then the last line here is the msba process this is um the PSR review period And this is the msba board meeting and then um February 10th is when we actually submit so these last couple weeks between when the cost estimate is done and when we submit the the PSR we're finalizing the report giving the report to you ahead of time to review um I think we have like a a week um for you to review it um and getting your feedback and then incorporating and submitting final that's one of the reasons why there's so many there's more SB SB uh SE meetings near the end because there'll be a lot of things especially with costs and and um program and things that you really want to review and make sure that when we get so I've told you this all along you know trust the process and you have and so we've got remember like how are we going to get an option you'll know it when you see it right it all kind of comes together you get it it's kind of the same here there's all this work to do and refining but at the end of schematic design when we have a price and the O OPM Mike and and Shirley are very important in helping you guys determine what's the right cost and all of that we work with them but that's I think this this is where they really shine there because when you hand in that schematic design package to the msba that's the cost that you're that's going to be your bond vote cost that's going to be your cost right um You may know that there's other things after that like IAS and things in the future but that's the amount of money that the um and the design that the msba will mostly hold you to and so this all this work is to make sure that we have the right thing and we've really really got into it it's a pretty high level level of schematic design um but that way you have you'll have the money you need to build your school to do the right one that you want to do so that's why all this is so important that's our next goal um in addition to those kind of primary tasks um I just provided here a list of other other tasks I couldn't fit on my nice neat spreadsheet um we're doing additional geotechnical investigation we're reviewing the lead scorecard we're doing an energy feasibility study which I'll talk about more on the next slide code review we're identifying the food service equipment that's needed um traffic analysis we'll beet with the town engineer and town planner we'll meet with fire police and EMS and um we are doing a little study on the generator size or emergency power as repor suggest and I have no problem I I I heard the comments coming in and we will certainly discuss the battery and whether and and what kind of energy we could uh create from solar panels on the roof to see if that is part of this no problem um the energy feasibility study this has to do with the question of should there be a geothermal system um should it be a full geothermal or a hybrid geothermal um and in order to answer that question because of the tight site um we've identified six questions that need to be answered by our um November 20th SBC meeting um in order to give the SBC the information and the confidence that you that you have the information to make the decision um so um these um goals questions to answer are um what are the site Logistics or site Logistics plan during construction what is the number of Wells that's needed based on an energy model um a layout of the Wells on site a layout of the site utilities coordinated with those Wells um cost comparison that includes first cost life cycle cost and incentives and then um information on reliability and operating costs from other districts or even other buildings ped commercial buildings who have had geothermal systems installed and operational for several years so that last item is something we're working with basically working on connecting Joe Huggins with other um directors of facilities who have had experience with this system to to um get him the information and the the Comfort level that he needs and with with that piece of it right we may not be able to find um school districts in the Northeast y with the data that we're looking for y so I think we've tapped out all we we connected with a couple good schools that have had geothermal systems and have had a good experience however they don't have like there was a school in Maine that Joe talked to where the just the way that they did their financing in the school the director of facilities that he spoke with didn't have the insight into the cost of running those systems and that's something that is is missing that he's still looking for so we continue to work on that yeah so and maybe Joe wants to jump in he met with Lexington recently as well but even if even if they're not they don't have to be schools in the Northeast you're looking for cost you know um how it affects the budget long term yeah so it can be other buildings it can it can be private sector it can be higher at doesn't have to be schools and it doesn't have to be in the Northeast it can be in the colder climates or whatever that's how I look at it those seem to be the things that working with you as a group that we need to answer and of course we will have a group a smaller group brain the Brain Trust um and uh those same people will be part of helping us um determine what is Right we've identified this as a as a very key point I think everything else seems to flow pretty well around it but it's kind of like a rock in the middle of the river and we just need to like figure out how to any other questions or discussion on that I know for me this is a um big nut to to tackle um and and I'm concerned about the schedule of it and I know um lva is working with callers on that piece of it um as far as I'm concerned this is one of the most important pieces and most important decisions that we're g to make so we need to make sure we we have the information we need to be able to make that those decisions too as I've said multiple times car can I add a couple of things please so yeah we um Pat had given us um the contact information for the director of facilities in Lexington and Kevin and I called him and had a had a good conversation with him uh down there it was the Hastings Elementary School which is not that much smaller than um the new kilum will be at about 110,000 square foot building it was completed right right when Co started so the building really didn't get a chance to stretch its legs so to speak um until a year and a half was after the pandemic so it's very new but what we did learn from him was that there was some lessons learned um and I won't go through all of those this is probably something we can talk about at a later dat but lessons learned during construction and the drilling of the wells while a school is being occupied right on the same site while they're you know drilling wells in the you know the well field and so on and so forth he also talked about um sort of lessons learned about uh the types of equipment that he has in the building what's worked really well for them and what hasn't worked really well and was down there in Lexington even though it's a similar size um District um their hbac mechanics are all inhouse and where reading does not have and we're very cuspy right now if we add this building um my department size is probably going to have to grow indor um the service contracts to main maintain the equipment but the advantage that Lexington has is that they have that expertise under under their roof so they're not paying prevailing wage When anybody comes out that they they do all their HB um internally with in-house maintenance uh men so you know that's just something to think about because there those are the type of things and that so you know it's going to be more expensive to maintain it because it's a new it's a new building stateof thee art and all that but he didn't really what he didn't have was any real good information um because it's don't new on uh mechanical breakdowns and what they're spending because they're still in a lot of cases under warranty so that feeds into our car y go ahead can I add into that just a little bit I think um to Joe's point I just want to kind of make it clear here that uh in general the cost to maintain the hbac on our new building no matter what system we pick is going to go up from what you are right now and I say that because right now we have Heating and I think if Lindsay if she's on she'd probably say we have heating maybe better in some locations and not so good in other locations in that building right now we don't have the ventilation and the air conditioning that we are going to in the future so the future building is going to be much better climate control much better as far as air quality and and everything else so it's it's going to be a higher level of of system if it's going you know with that higher level there is some additional cost associated with that so regardless of which system we have we are going to have additional cost and additional maintenance requirements and things of that nature that that's if we use a boiler or if we use air source we use ground source so just want to let everybody know that's part of but there's a benefit to that right you're getting all those benefits of those those newer systems um but what we're trying to do in and it's right up on your screen here cost comparison of the first cost cost which is the construction the life cycle of cost which is really what Joe is talking about the operational maintenance side and then the incentives and when we pull all this together in the when we come back to you we're going to be able to show you you know examples of of all of these systems and and what those anticipated costs are so um yeah lindsy the lindsy said 100% on the chat as far as I heating variation of heating yeah and we understand that and we ALS we what we do also understand is that I I know we don't like to use payback as a a word but all return investment but it's what your if your return on in your investment with the savings is negated by um you know mechanical breakdowns and increased cost to operate the building that's the type of stuff that Kevin and I are looking closely at because those if yes it will cost more money to maintain but when the building goes without a warranty and you have mechanical failures because it's it's a state-of thee facility that eats into your savings and that's just how it is and it's it's going to cost you're right it's going to cost more money to maintain it and more money to run the building from an energy standpoint you're you're absolutely correct Joe and I think what we're saying we've got to get the data to show you and prove it to to you and to everybody but typically what we're seeing in the market right now is that those operations maintenance costs are going to be less for a geothermal system than than another system but we need to get that information we need to give you the hard numbers and hard back so that everybody can digest that absolutely excellent thank you very much I I wanted to say you know I'm maybe I'm best at looking at it from a different angle um I but I when I hear all this is and and I've been looking at all this together and I get this feeling about well first of all you have the stretch coat in in this town right and we're talking about not just killum but the future buildings in this town and what they have to do to meet the code and the future I mean this is why you're here on your committee you think about these kinds of things killum is not a guinea pig but it is an opportunity to do a whole lot of research and to start to um modify our Behavior or the way we think about things it's really hard to have a system I I really feel for Joe and his group because they have a system who does once you get used to doing one thing all of a sudden everybody changes it you they're asking you to do a different thing but this is an opportunity to to meet I mean the stretch code almost Demands a certain kind of building now and um and we can look at the op in things that demand something else but really demand a high level of um of proof that you're doing a building that meets certain criteria and that's why everybody says electric building all this stuff it's because that's the easiest way to meet those criteria and everything that's being thrown at us is going in that direction that doesn't mean if everybody's jigging you after jig two you could jog but I hope that this helps you to plan for the future of the next 20 years as well as you see where things are going and this is part of your Evolution because you will have to change we all have to change but how do we how we do that whether it's incremental or anything like that is how we do it I know that sounds kind of like goofy but it's how I look at it is that there's something we have to accept here but also um you almost have to rebuild the way some way we think a little bit and I hope that everybody has the support they need to do that especially Joe who is um you know has his has limitations there's limitations on town I just wanted to say it like that I don't know if that's helpful to anyone I I think that's the key right is is how um we want to do the best POS we want to make the best possible decision we can understanding the costs that are associated with it right we want to know what our Unbreaking costs are at after have a good idea of them at least um I think that's reasonable Ian I know that helps that will help me to make my decisions as well thanks Karma um I agree that we have to change but what also has to change is if the state is the state the town whatever scenario is pushing these guidelines on to us they have to move as well our reimbursement can be the same as it always was if you want to push more projects uh like this forward the reimbursement has to start catching up to it otherwise it doesn't make it financially feasible so I understand we have to move but they have to they're the ones that put us in this position in the first place and they're going to expect us just to do it is essentially what it comes down to because we have to while at the same time not giving us the reimbursement that it would make sense for everybody else to do these kind of scenarios they put us into this position where it I know we're going to get the numbers and all that in my opinion I think it's not going to make sense uh unfortunately but something's going to give like I I will say um Mike you're on there didn't this isn't an answer to your question so but they they just did raise their reimburse their reimbursement rates for the cost per square foot and so you'll be getting right Mike yeah so the the reimbursements were had a substantial adjustment last uh October October 23 and then I believe it was the August meeting they just did do do an an additional um up uh increase to that reimbursement so uh while it doesn't get us fully covered for all construction cost it is certainly a lot better than it than it was prior to those adjustments they keep trying to find the money to push it up push it up because I think they realize that and I'm not defending anything I'm just saying I think they realize that and they try to disperse the money you do have choices the optin code is not required it is three um it is three percentage um reimbursable points which is worth about 3 $100 million is $3 million but that doesn't mean you have to do it you can always not do that and do it different ways so you do have choices and and we'll present those choices to you so that you don't feel trapped you don't want you to feel trapped we want you to feel like you're you're moving forward in a comfortable way that we're all learning something new but then let's do it a certain way I get it I guess my point is exactly the point that you just said is that you're talking it's 3% or whatever on on what planet is 3% going to be access I I understand there's all other numbers involved but when you when you start whittling it down to wherever this is going to end up going those numbers have to go higher I understand they changed the percentage and all that but that's for uh electrical building walls roofs all the all the stuff not the super expensive technology related kind of crazy stuff that's going to have to happen here so those are the points that have to move they have to give you instead of three points 10 15 I don't know like they got to come from somewhere so my my limited understanding is that the like we're going to hit those percentage points right like we're going to hit them without with or without geothermal just because of our efficiencies and um the envelope the how um uh efficient the envelope is and like that and and we will have um we will have um reimbursements after construction potentially that we can go after for things like geothermal um to to help offset that cost but that's not built into the construction cost it's something that comes to us just one point of clarification I I know that we have been considering um having a a natural gas fired system like a boiler or chiller um and if we go that route in order to get the 3% um additional 3% incentive from msba we have to either um if we do a gas system we also have to do solar photo voltaics um alternatively go with all electric no gas so that's um we have to produce as much the choice electricity as we as we would use no in the 3 years you don't have to produce all your energy it's 1.5 watts per square foot or whatever let's not talk about this so specifically I let me just let's just say that in the words of um Mar Simpson it's a rich tapestry um and what I mean by that is not to demean it but to say it really is a balance of all these different funding sources and iies and all of that we going to see if it makes sense for us to do it and if you guys don't want to do that we'll do this that I don't I just don't want people to feel trapped because you're not trapped you do have decisions you can make and uh it may not seem fair but on the other hand to them they're doing what they feel is man that's all I got I just want to add one point I I would say that what Chris is saying does not represent what I'm saying or I don't know about other people on the board so I think that we have to look at this planet it's not just cost so we have to look beyond for 50 years when this this building is being still occupied that it doesn't cause the issues that we're facing right now with hurricanes that have destroyed and fires that are destroyed we need to do something to make this planet better so that's where I'm coming from and yes costs are something but we have to look at the big picture too so I I just want to make that clear that I he does not represent what I'm saying let me just if I can talk about reimbursements the the state doesn't have there's no rainbow with a Croc of gold at the end it the state doesn't have any money the state is broke the only money the state has is what it raises in taxes from people so when we get a reimbursement we are getting our own money back and if we if the state increases the reimbursements they have to increase our taxes to pay for those from a macroeconomic standpoint all reimbursements all subsidies are contrary to the free market economy which we which has made America one of the richest countries in the world and every time we give a reimbursement or a subsidy we interfere with that free market economy and we reduce efficiency we should not look for more reimbursements the whole msba thing is a is a it's a funy scheme you know we take money from the taxpayers and we give it back to them and we pretend we're giving them some benefit we're not from the macro economics point of view it's a closed system you can't give a reimbursement and pretend the money is growing on trees it doesn't it comes from the taxpayers or from government bonds who borrow it from Europe China South America and it has to be paid back so we should not be getting into this stage where we we drive our economy or our decisions by the reimburse ments because it's it's fake money and if the if the state keeps having to raise taxes in order to reimburse every town for every little thing and every little system um that's what drives people out of state that's what makes Massachusetts less competitive within other states so I I'm I'm firmly on the belief that reimbursements are not a benefit to us and I would oppose any increase in reimbursement GRE you know if we have to we have to learn to live within our means I I think with like just coming from the school side of things we we get unfunded mandates all the time and and it and it leaves the schools to kind of um figure out how to meet the state's requirements um with the the money that we've received from the state so it's it's a it's a catch 22 right well either the state has to fund these mandates or the towns have to fund it it's much more efficient for the town to fund I I totally agree with you I AG so we shouldn't be trying to go down the road of let's get more and more subsidies let's get more and more rebay let's get more and more you know rmli Municipal black company they have subsidies for solar panels that money that they are giving for people who installing solar panels comes from the rate payers who pay the bills the C the money just goes around around it doesn't benefit anybody it's not producing anything of value people don't seem to get that some of us do I think I could listen to John all day this is pretty great well I I'll just bring it back because I agree with all of you because that's my job actually Toe with all of you and um the way I look at it is there are pots of money that as a responsible group and as an architect we want to fund as much find as much money for you to build the best the building that you want at at least cost to your own private um bond for your taxpayers in town and those are fixed there's a certain amount of things that they've told us about and we should explore all of them as you asked us to in the very beginning so that we can know what is a available to us um so we can serve you as best as we can that's just the realistic no I agree we this is what we have we're locked into a system yeah this is the system whether the system is wise or not is another question yeah I don't the system I got is I want to we want to build a building we want to be the best building that you can afford and you have the lowest taxes based on that building as possible hey that's cool next steps I could just add uh if you need a comparison of something that's going on now Framingham Housing Authority for their residents it's a big complex bigger than Etc um for their residents they have geothermal going on offsite next door at uh the mot facility so the wells are going over there so that's a current project that's going on I know you're looking for more later on cost Alternatives Etc but this is one that's ongoing currently so the impact of the residents over there and it being an off-site facility Etc so just something thank you um so just wrapping up our presentation um our next steps several of which I already mentioned the msba board meeting on October 30th our next SBC meeting is October 21st um we will have um an SD design update and I believe Mike and Shirley will be um presenting about project delivery method so CM at risk versus um design bid build uh project delivery November 18th um I believe we're going to change that to November 20th we're going to talk about it we're going to change that town meeting day number three that just a different date um we'll be talking about HVAC systems selection whenever that happens and yeah I I did speak um I to Jack briefly I believe either the 13th or the 20th is possible um if preferable the 20th she says it's much easier if it works with everyone just texting with to see if she had those um yeah what we can we'll talk about it at the end okay tentatively November 20th um and then the community meetings which I already talked about thank you thank you any questions um I'm just gonna um Ray Porter had a comment on um the CH in the chat he says Energy Efficiency is greater for ground Source heat pumps than boilers electrical costs can be offset by silver panels thank you Ray okay um we are going to bypass um number six warrant the warrant at this time and along to the meeting minutes to approve the meeting minutes I have that you want me to put it up on the screen please everybody had a chance to read meeting minutes great happy to do a motion motion to accept the um sorry it's the August 12th 2024 meeting minutes second second second to B Greg any discussion no okay Sean's getting ready okay we'll take a vote Sean yes Kirk yes John yes Chris yes Greg yes Nancy yes and Carla yes the motion passes thank you everyone um and now we'll talk about the um the next SBC meeting ksbc meeting is October 21st and following that is November 18th November 18th is our third day of town meeting so um we were looking into other dates the 20th is available right now it's a Wednesday night um we could I I I thought of doing it earlier on the 18th but I kind of don't want to do that because I don't want to have a final I don't want to have a constricted time if we start at 600 and we have to be a town meeting by 7:30 um so just any looking quickly at your calendars does the 20th look November 20th look good for people it's a Wednesday night we're we're kind of staying away from Tuesday because there's a select board meeting on the 19th Kirk and Sean no problem for me okay perfect I uh may be traveling internationally that week so I wouldn't schedule around me for that week okay all right let's go ahead and and plan it for um November 20th it's good with you yeah also LBA okay let's let's plan that for November 20th at 7 o'clock and I think Jackie already booked it so thank you Jackie um any other issues um follow-up issues for future agenda items no great I will entertain a motion motion to adjourn second seconded by Greg no discussion we work as a team Sean yes Kirk yes John yes Chris Greg yes Nancy yes and Carla we're ajour thanks everyone thank you