e e can you hear me sorry I can't hear anything now I can hear you thank you Willam Collins Collins yep present pres Karen pretty good Doug Miller present Andy no and Betsy's not sworn in yet so but just for the public just explain who messie Bessie is Bessie is another um board member she's an alternate but um we need to have her sworn in so she will not be participating so so for the purposes tonight she will sit up here with us but she can't participate in any conversations um and she can also not vote on any issues that we have and hopefully in the future she'll have an opportunity and she is a senior Red Bank Regional okay so um all of you have received the minutes in your email for April 17th um are there well first of all is there a motion to approve the minutes Karen uh second I second okay are there any questions on the minutes um the chair seeing no questions we'll ask for a vote of approve oh okay all in favor okay so the next item on the agenda is public comments on agenda items uh chair recognizes you come up and give your name and address good evening 71 Wallace Street I just had a question um about house I was wondering I know they're going to do the Hardy Board but I'm wondering if you're going to do shingles on the front and collaborate on the side or you doing collaborate on the front too collaborate all around thank you are there any other questions on the agenda okay so the next item on the agenda is the minor Works Review Committee report um yes so the minor work committee um met yesterday to discuss the sign for 90 um 95 Broad Street um it will be in the same size same style and coloring as what was there like the prep copy um but now it's a new business same exact thing um nothing has changed really B except for the store's name so the minor work committee um approved it and found is sufficient anybody on the committee want to make a comment on that or okay um so old business so the first item on Old business uh we have updated the historic inventory spreadsheet and that is available online so um I have a question for the commission uh going forward with this spreadsheet um we have have recently been made aware that somebody who lives in the historic district were not aware that they were in the historic district and um took steps to remove a slate roof one of the few remaining in town and you know the explanation was gee I didn't know so so I'm proposing that now that we have an updated um survey of all of the places that have been listed by prior resolutions um in 2004 2006 and 2007 that the property owners on this list be notified that you are a part of you are your property is part of the historic list and further that you have been either designated because the architecture as contributing to the Integrity of the district or non-contributing to the Integrity of the district and if they wish to make any comment on that designation or listing because again they may not be aware that I would invite them to come to the June meeting where we can rather than pacem mail answering issues have it all in one it's further it's my understanding that these designations are by resolution and correct me if I'm wrong not by ordinance and the definition of resolution is more tempor temporary than ordinance um so we could move forward with perhaps an ordinance at some point in and an updated you know now we could say 2024 one of the things that this commission did was was verify that these properties still exist because some of them are now vacant Lots or have been destroyed since this list was introduced in 2009 was the last time it was approved and and to move forward so if anyone I don't believe it mean it requires a motion it's just a question of what is the feeling of the Comm Commission on this action so anybody have any feelings on it blue yeah I I agree it's a good idea and would recommend sending everyone that owns a property designate historic a letter informing them of that and just because you're in historic district doesn't mean you have a historic house also that's why um Marie went around and um did like a visual survey of whether or not it's non-contributing contribute so it it's really it was just me one person looking at the ordinance and and saying you know as as a late person walking I mean you know just walking through does this person add to the district or not add to the district so for example there was one in addition to property is now being bacon since this list there's one incidence where the barn of the property is designated as historic not the house but you can see the barn from the street and so as we've talked about in the past what we're concerned about is you know what is the street view doesn't matter what anybody's done on the inside or if they added to the back part but from the street view somebody going through town is is this something that we really want to learn from that we want to appreciate as historic so so if you could just drop a very simple letter I think it just needs to be a couple of paragraphs notifying the property owners and if they have any questions if you will agree then we could address them as um as new as as new businesses at the June meeting what's the opinion on the barn I put it down as non-contributing because you cannot even see it from the street right and I I was not going to enter the property owner's property I mean the house itself is beautiful um it's not designated just the barn was designated so I have no idea what the barn looks like so and you have to know that it was back there even yes exactly yeah know so so so that's the point um and yeah so I'm hoping then we can have a a realist to work well I think uh one of the things uh as far as the long-term view of what we want to consider is if some property is in the designated uh Zone but is non-contributing if they ever come before the commission to make any Renovations then our guidelines would suggest that they become uh contributing at that point if they if they want to renovate this facade of their their property well the one thing that you know and again I I don't have an opinion on on this yet but in reading the ordinance page 10 of 22 in the ordinance the criteria for designation isn't slow solely um the architecture sometimes it is and I'm just quoting as number two Association with events or um you know identification of the work of the Builder you know so you know it could be non-contributing but still be I believe again this is just my opinion in my opinion um it should still be noted but maybe have some other kind of designation why it's there you know looking at this house it looks Thoroughly Modern to me but at one point it had a a notable uh Red Bank resident who who lived there or it was the last house designed by a particular Builder you know so that's my view anyway but but again we're just starting we're just starting the designation so I I don't know where it's going to lead us yet so you could be non-contributing but still important to to our history you know and our our history I mean red um history okay um so if there's no other questions or comments on number one number two U moving forward to designate urban place as another historic district with 18 properties listed on that street um and I think we also received that letter in your in your emails yeah all right so did anybody have any um comments on on the letter I thought the letter was fine and and they would be invited to come and address us if they choose to at the July meeting and and the reason why it's not um just to correct from last month's meeting we had said the June meeting we would do the presentation but after I um looked at the ordinance it said 30 days we had to get 30 days notice and doing the June meeting I wouldn't have the 30 days to send it out in time so that's why um I pushed it to the July meeting because it would give a significant um time to get out the noticing within the 30 days period but since we're not designating any these properties have already been designated we can just invite them to the June meeting yeah okay so uh the next item under old business is the uh 21 on Broad Street facade application and uh there was a possibility that Mr Anderson would come back I'm here and he's here okay thank you John Anderson again on behalf of 21 broad RB LLC and 21 bro rb2 LLC um last time it was just me I've now got design professional Neil with you this evening he uh he did get a opportunity to make some plan revisions you had four areas of concern three of those have been addressed one would be the removal of any plan notation about obscuring the word Doris it's been revised on plans it's not proposed to be obscured in any way thank you thank you it's presently I think a white terracotta white terracotta facade and the lettering is also white I believe the proposal would be in whatever historic color we choose to paint it have the backdrop as well as the wording in the same color but not obscured or covered or anything to that so it would be it would be noticed from the street yeah I mean it's not highlighted or emphasized or demarcated in a different color but I think it's just as it stands now just to be spruced up painted another historic color Okay has was there a thought to sand blasting it to bring back the original terracotta color at all was that ever considered no no I don't know that it was ever plain terracotta all the photos I'd seen it appeared to be shade of white but I'll let the AR yeah um we uh we also added a sort of a a graphic or a detail on the plans showing a proposed entryway tile pattern like a black and white style pattern as the committee had requested we into you got the pictures I sent you I sent to sha we did receive them yeah so what we're showing and Mr O'Neal can present that would just be like a hypothetical tile pattern two color with the street address set into it I don't know that it's set in stone but we we proposed something for you to look at okay O'Neal present that I think I made a representation last time that we had no problem using the historic color palette that's been noted on the plans and again speak to it uh there were two things that were kind of further discussion or further comment I think uh one of them was probably the simpler of the two the sun shades or awnings and my recollection was you wanted to see or hear what the proposed material is perhaps spec on it what color would it be how large dimensions and that's been noted on the plan in Mr speak to it and the other discussion involved the propos window on the third address with you um I'm G to turn the floor over to Mr O'Neal and can tell you a little bit about the plan talk to you hopefully first about the ownings and then about the window thank you um yeah just you you need deal you got to draw it real close to you oh okay I just there we go um not sure how much John went over before do you need to know what the scope of the project is we we were showing the blueprints with the last meeting he had um you know a large display right so you you know that it's primarily an interior renovation project on the third floor there is an addition that accommodates an elevator which is an ADA requirement it accomodates the raising of the back stairs only two stories tall to the third floor so that the third floor can be have adequate emergency eress and then there are two bathrooms that would be add to the third floor where none exist so that's the addition so that that's why for the zoning board because we have't AR exacerbated the change in the F that's already so but n none of those would be visible from the Broad Street elevation this morning no know and all the walls that face that are BL WS they're firewalls so nobody's going to see it unless they're so that just gives you kind of an idea what the rest prop is on the facade as as John mentioned you would be new painting and restoration of the Terracotta which to my knowledge has always we worked on the building two owners ago which was um about 2001 and it was white then um so did you sorry I don't want to interrupt but if if I am standing across the street looking up at the building I could see the white paint peeling and like a teror color underneath it yes but the original building as far back as we can determine it was always coded you so the Terracotta was actually a paint not the actual natural color of the brick or whatever was on in anything in our investigation it was never anything but point and when we undertook the project in 2001 the problem was that the Terracotta was starting to fail and it was becoming porous so there was a somewhat last on it to seal the teracotta and then who came to over and that's when you see peels because it hasn't really been touched in probably and because facing south so it gets a lot of harsh Sun so normal paint PS peels that kind so the oldest photo that I'd seen of it was the one that I presented to you last time believe it was like 1945 or 1946 and it appeared to be white at that time let Mr speak the building given the style of the building which we was built in the 20s um the style of the building is called Art mod and in art modern architecture it was really they were trying to reduce things to Black and so solid and really that was the theory and um I mean you see these all over the country and all over Europe but again the idea was to reduce the building down to its basic um minimalist components what's interesting about the building is the fact that they used theop because if this was in Miami Beach in 1920s they stuck up it so that's really the one thing that's different about it but again to our investigation which was pretty extensive about 2001 it always appeared by pained because you know again it's studying the building um especially with the design elements like the diamonds and things like that it reminded me of um I think it's the Western Union uh building in New York City which was also done in the 1920s which was U the reddish color and then the ornamentation is is painted you know so um historically knows historically it the Terracotta was really a more economical way of aing detail which was normally Cut St Stone C so what you were doing was you were casting teracotta like you wouldn't break into a panel and then purposes gluing it GL watering it to build and that's what they did and that to time those years old that that starts to that initial ad starts to win and that's where the water was getting in back in 200 and that was what it was in work okay um so we intend to recode the building um we we hadn't really thought about the indentation and the floor of the indentation but your suggestion of using tile a tile inlay was attractive to us and my client agreed that we would do a tile inlay so we just showed an example we designed it literally but that's an example of it um we are proposing to include what we think are uh sympathetic sun shades to the building uh sympathetic from the standpoint of development style so they are fairly low profile black matte metal and it's a black and white pallet which was very typical in the period um the purpose of them is it's a Southwest facing building and the large Windows let in a tremendous amount of so in so try to mitigate some of the heating overheating problems which is really a goal of the new Master the buildings that are sensitive to find change so that those elements will create some level of shading on the building in the afternoon and um that would be on the second and third floor and on the first floor it would be a solid or really keep the rain off one's head as they try to get into the building even though the entrances are recessed we offset the sun shade well the on really first FL uh to highlight and Center upon the new door location which is slightly over from where it is the entrance was never in the middle it's always been on Center then again in the AR M period what they trying to do is create motion visual motion and so when you look at a building as a matter of fact the building that was ACR Wallace Street from this which was an old I think it was a it's either a sunr drugs or a n they had a long one story building with this Mass massive concrete and steel s so that it's the Counterpoint of horizontal motion and hierarchical emphasis at the entry and now we're not doing that but we felt that the um Bo setting of The the a not running it all the way across the building kind of glant itself to that motion and it covers both doors because one door goes directly up upstairs and looks into the first floor so one goes into the stairwell floor so that's why logical and also movement so that was the the design Theory um real quick Mr um one of the concerns that word had last time I didn't hear you to say you dislike the awnings you wanted more info but one concern was where will they be set you didn't want the awnings to be anchored into the Terracotta to obscure patterns um could you address that really quick well again the the thought was that at the very top of the windows there's a part that isn't that's where the mounting would OCC um if we needed the additional support it depends on the exact specification of that sun shade and we haven't done yet because we wanted to get some consultant in about the anchoring of it um if needed we show five um cables that would be then anchored into a spot between the tiles to and it's not just remember it's not just the weight coming down it's also the we coming up but because they're movers they don't really move because if you're standing real close to the building you look straight up it's they're going to be you're going to see scop because they're going to be vertical W and again the depth of it will be about three feet and that will be enough since the Sun comes in at about a 70 72 degree angle in the summer that will be enough to cover provide shade for the we know and a large part of the as far as the um the mass of the shade itself thickness of the height of that it's about four in and that's proposed to be set at the very tippy top of the windows rather than yes because I brought it up to the client the client certainly knows that you know messing with the U the Terracotta you want to really interfere with that as little as possible even even purely from a structural and practic how about the approximate depth of about 3et about 3et so which again should be more than enough to to deal with did Black yeah again as with the in inlay in the in the entryway and again in the or mod style they tend to be black and white um literally I'm sorry so the thickness of the awning it's going to be three inches is that about four inch four in 4 in thick about three feet in depth painted black matte metal LED on the second and third floor but not the first all set on the first but not the second third and um proposed to to be aligned with the top of each of right and it probably may be made out of out of what aluminum because we R last quick question um can you just address um are you concerned at all with any uh runoff or snow accumulation let's say on the thir floor to the side it go it'll what go right through go right through just the only part on the bottom which which would that you know keep the rain off your head that'll have its own draining system right but snow won't accumulate on the awnings on the third floor the second floor spacing between the fins is too too great for it to to accumate going what's the material I'm sorry I must miss that no the material of the awning on the first floor same thing so that's going to be a metal um awning but it's just in uh in Clos or solid it's going to be a solid underneath it it would be it wouldn't let anything through okay so again if you were going front door draining so it's not going to be like a fabric type of okay and these are are very common this is not very you see um oh and I guess then the last issue with are the windows so the second floor window window that exist are but SE blazing so we are proposing to do the third floor which had been altered for apartments that are no longer there and to repeat the windows on the second onto the third matching the ones on the second which is similar to what we proposed back in 2001 and was accepted and that my uh my peer Steve R proposed and was accepted it just neither one was ever built but the third floor windows were always meant over the last 20 something years to match the second so we're continuing that um idea my client has been more than willing to do that work technically doesn't have to do um which I think will unify the building into what it originally was which was two bars of Windows our Al um oriented windows again it's all about Motion in the art mod style it's all about speed and motion so having a window that can be seen as contiguous is very important in St now the original building had a almost a cage of mons and milons and the factly matter is in the 1920s they didn't have the technical ability to make glass like they uh the glass they make now which is called Flo PL was really only perfected in 1960 prior to that all those Ms are holding individual pieces of glasss which were highly efficient both the same point leaking and from an Energy Efficiency standpoint a lot of them also were operable because there was wether conditioning and so considering the change in Technologies and buildings that's why the butt seene glass was used on the second floor um it has a spectacular effect inside visual effect of going into that space and seeing that window jaw dropping and when you look at the what's well this at the moment it's broadw and you you can kind of see in and then when you're down the back on the bottom and the lights are on like now and you can see through it's really a quite a unique um experience which was very much in lines of Art so all that sounds great um just like another thought and and really architect so you probably don't have any view on this but um it would be wonderful if in some way it could be noted somewhere in the building the style of building that it was and any history of the building to be incorporated so that someone entering the building or walking by the building could appreciate a little bit about its history so again we we can't do anything about that but you know it's just like people walk by and they they notice the building but they really don't understand the building I I could speak to my client about whether something certainly on the inside would be easy weather proof yeah right I mean I'm just saying so that people people could learn about about history of the building that's allly on the inside abely I think it would be a nice feature to be able to have that there especially if you're going to give a Prohibition Vibe at some point you know since it's a building from the 1920s when you know that kind of thing I mean there were rums and homes that were okay you know involved in prohibition and also remember it was part of the Chaz yeah and true and our our town I live here too I say our town is has really been many effects defined by the Jazz Cas and people like that I mean and the artw Le style was a response to jazz music right right so bring it all together yeah right um I have one question I appreciate maintaining the style but last time somebody and I don't know who it was mentioned that they didn't like the the W Windows that they wanted something um sections section I think that was Paul was talking about the framing of the window original photograph that was provided by Mr Anderson um shows some detail within the window that you had just described at the time required individual panes of glass at the time but I imagine at this point there is a product of some sort that would give that appearance I'm not necessarily married to that um if you're telling me it's not congruent with the history of the building in my opinion is not but it was there if back in the 20s if you look at design drawings from architects in the 20s were in this style they never showed any M and milons at all it was like this idea of having a pure void of glass it's just that they couldn't physically do it but as soon as they were able to in the 50s and 60s really in that early 60s they did it and all of a sudden they were their milons mon were and so many buildings because they the the m Mion were so inefficient from weather standpoint and from Heating and Cooling they replaced with pling they they just wholesale replace them because it just didn't make any sense so when you go anywhere you go with art mod buildings you see the it's a clear sheet of GL it's pure I got drilled into this when I was inex school given the time I was there it was the purity of I didn't have that the benefit of that knowledge or design expertise last time my thought was the poers of the cage like different skills different SK much absolutely that occurs to me as a non-design professional looking at just Mr O's photos it also is really cool in that it reflects back a lot of the buildings across the street so when you're looking at that plain glass you're seeing all the beautiful buildings across the street reflect my back you it's kind of always dawned on me and I I like that I'm not the professional yeah and I just remember at night it's the exact opposite the inside just pops out because that's what light does so now W sudden said you see reflection the building explodes on that was the whole idea that kind of like an Edward Hopper painting yes yes the night walks painting perfect example yeah um okay so thank you for your time thank you for listening I'm looking forward to dining there I don't you want to recommend you voted on the last one yeah we we did vote not on this one oh I had two last time you voted on 17 to the so um anyone like make a motion to recommend yeah I'd move to recommend okay that's drafted um I'll second it I just want to clarify so we're accepting all the changes that they made in the revisions no added recommendations no added recommendations wanted the interior I just if I mean I would like like everybody on to do something similar if it was in with my power I'll volunteer to get as long as my client is okay with I'll be I'll volunteer to get put together yeah through my position as a professor in school yeah that would actually a neat idea maybe take that would be that would be lovely because a lot of the Corner Stones are gone and you know even if I mean again um dorus no one's ever going to know that name but the point is that they did take steps different kind of steps architecturally than the other buildings on Broad Street it's it's different than some of the other buildings on Broad Street so so let's put a style to it let's let's educate people a little bit about you know it's its relation to the Jazz Age and you know I mean be great AB yeah all right so um leis Alini yes Marjorie cavali yes um Liam Collins yes Paul kago yes kov Doug Miller yes thank you very much thank you thank you very much for your time okay so we're going to move on to new business um and so shaa if you could address maybe number one under new business um so 20 sorry 26 Wallace and 68 Wallace previously appeared before the um prior um historic commission last year was one and year before was the other um they were they didn't start their work at the at the time after they got their HPC approval however they're beginning their work now and they went to um the building department for their permit so they were previously approved by the commission um so we just wanted to put that on the record that they were previously approved so others may start seeing you know people around the community may start seeing work being done but they were approved by the commission um so it's just now that they're beginning to start the work on their properties yeah okay so um I'll address numbers two and three um two is um certified local government applications so a couple of weeks ago I did a zoom call with two people involved in the Westfield historic preservation commission uh one of whom is involved at the state level as well and they shared with me that um in the state there's roughly about 12 many historic preservation commissions that are certified um by the state that they meet certain requirements as opposed to just a group of people getting together and say yeah let's preserve history so Shauna has downloaded the application and we will make application to the state so I just wanted to make you aware you know there's no cost to us the benefit to us is that it does open up the possibility of additional plants if we're designated as a c to certified local government um so I think that's kind of good news and we just learn by talking to people and needing so did you want to also um a part of being a CLG is that this commission will also review like National um registry um we they'll they'll send us applications that for National Registry designation and we will we could write back to them to say um whether or not we agree with the property whatever property throughout the United States um should be designated as a national um site National Historic Landmark site so we will be more it's not just Red Bank but you know it's all over so it'll be a learning process for us as well um to help us understand a little bit more about our mission um so the final item under new business is um the New Jersey historic reservation conference is taking place in Jersey City on June 5th and 6 um I have asked Shauna to enroll me for the conference on the 6th so um in Ju well maybe even yeah yeah perhaps in June I can share with you the workshops that I've attended uh on the 6 and if there's anything I can bring back uh to the commission and if anyone's still interested in attending um you could just send me an email and I'll uh send out for the registration it's still open so if you're interested in attending to sign you know so I can register you I may attend but not officially just because our friend presenting so I'll probably oh a presenter no a friend of hers on the sixth or on the fifth oh okay all right um so the next part of the agenda is public comments on nine non-agenda items anybody in the public are right the chair seeing nobody in the public wanting to make a a comment so um if would somebody like to make a motion to a Jour move to a Jour I'll second that all in favor the time is 7:45 thank you you attention all right excellent thanks everybody all right