time is 6:30 roll call here Rond Mass here Hogan here Beno here Sharon Lee here vent ABS Paul KAG here Anna Cruz Amanda absent Eugene hor here Chris Havens here adequate notice of this meeting has been posted by Hall with cl mailed through the Asbury Park Press to River times and the star leure this meeting is being tape recorded event the applicant use the service of the court reporter to transcribe the tapes the board requires a copy of the transcrip will break about 800m for deliberation T this far in the conference room on the first floor public is invited to attend however discussion between board members and the public is not permitted at that time no new cases will be heard after 9:00 p.m. Red Bank zoning Board of adjustment has maintained a policy cut off hour of 9:30 p.m. for its hearings I heard this evening will be carried over to the next scheduled meeting uh Pledge of Allegiance States we have some administrative matters uh we have po of office to three of our members okay Mr chairman I think only two of the members are here tonight to be sworn in Eugene harwitz and Paul tagno so gentlemen if you could stand up please and what we'll do is you'll repeat after me I'll say state your name we'll start with uh Eugene and then go down to Paul and then you can repeat after me so if you can raise your right hand I state your name Eugene Horwitz Paul do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will I will Faithfully Faithfully impartially partially and justly justly perform all the duties perform all the duties of the office of the office of a member of a member member of the Red Bank Zoning Board of adjustment Red Bank zoning Board of adjustment according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability help me guide help me go okay we have a reorganization of the board for 2024 um do we have a nomination for chairperson nominate second second Anor uh yes Rond Mas yesan yes vano yes Sharon Lee Paul KAG yes and an yes okay we have H Vice chair nomination Vice chair nominate D can we get an all in favor yes yes any oppos or obained we have next up is board secretary Nom nomin second you did second okay all in favor yes yes any or oppos no next we have nomination for board attorney I'll nominate Kevin Kennedy I second call Anor yes lman Mass yes e Hogan yes T Euro yes Sharon Lee Yes Paul kagu yes and Anna Cruz yes you know what Mr chairman I wanted to uh thank the board members first of all wish everyone a Happy New Year but I've been fortunate to have this appointment for a number of years and I very much appreciate it I very much respect it I'm still excited by it and I thank you and I look forward to working with you all thank you CH next we have Gard engineer nomination for Ed Herman nominate by to Ed Herman second th yes Raymond Mattis yes Eileen Hogan yes vano I'm going tostain for potential conflict interest okay Sharon Lee Yes Paul kagu yes Anna Cruz yes a nomination for the conflict board attorney it was uh Mark lexin I'll nominate Mark yes second sorry Mark second an Cy yes Raymond M yesen Hogan yes Beno yes Sharon Lee Yes Paul KAG yes Anna Cruz yes okay we also have a conflict for the board engineer nominates conflict I'll second Anor yeah yes Raymond Mass yes Eileen Hogan yes danu yes Sharon Lee Yes Paul Kagel yes Anna Cruz yes okay we have affirmation of a zoning board bylaws make a motion to I will reaffirm the zoning board bylaws I'll move back second all in favor yes any oppos or okay next we have the official newspaper which is the Two River Times Asbury Park Press and the star lger star Legend star anybody I'll make a motion a second all in favor I yes yes yes any oppos okay and last we have the 2024 board meeting calendar and I'll make a motion to approve that yes uh correction to the calendar date for um November changing from November 8th to November 7th okay thank you so Mr chairman we can have a motion to adopt that as amended motion to adopt as amended all in favor any opposed or obained okay next up we have a meeting minutes December 7 2023 I'll move to approve the U December 7 minutes I'll second all in favor I any opposed or obained okay now we have a couple resolutions resolution of dismissal of one Barry Street uh Mr chairman this was an application to construct the single family homeon unders siiz lot and you'll recall we started the hearing and then one of the neighbors said I might be interested in purchasing this property and one of the legal requirements in this particular type of case was that they had to reach out they reached out and they uh sold the property to each other so Kevin assadi the applicant's attorney sent a letter saying the con the deal has been finalized and so he asked to withdraw the application so this is a dismissal without prejudice um for those reasons and it just just basically allows us and allows to close a file on this and close our books and move on please for resolution of dismissal second uh yeah you can do a roll call Tor yes Raymond MZ yesen Hogan yes Beno yes Sharon Lee Yes Paul kago yes Anna Cruz yes okay we have a resolution at disposal for uh 78 Bridge Avenue uh Mr chairman you'll recall this was an application that came before us uh I think it was last month and the applicant basically indicated that uh he wanted board feedback and he got some board feedback and uh the applicant's attorney had indicated that they're going to withdraw the application so again this dismisses the application without prejudice again just allowing CH to close the books um return any extra money and we move on the FL I'll make a motion to resolution I'll second Anor yes Rond M yes Eileen Hogan yeso yes Sher yes Paul KAG yes Anna Cruz yes okay your business we have 42 M Street of first okay um chairman couple of things we'll just administratively uh take care of uh first up is there anyone here who had any questions or comments regarding the sufficiency of the notice they received all right we don't see any and just for the record the board of secretary and Sean and I reviewed the notes found everything to be in order so it would be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight and what we'll do is we will Mark into the record uh what we as a board have before us with regard to this amended application so A1 will be a Redline markup of the parking plan unsigned undated provided by Sal Al fury on November sou alere a Esquire on November 29th 2023 A2 is the site plan rendering prepared by Kennedy Consulting Engineers dated December 15 2023 A3 is the resolution adopted by this board in 2019 resolution number 2019-14 so we'll mark that into the record and A4 is a communication email communication from Andrew Comey the applicants engineer and it was to Ed Herman our board engineer dated December 7th 2023 uh on a or I think I have a copy of that for you just uh and basically uh as and I'm sorry one last thing to Mark into the record A5 will be the tnm associates review memoranda memorandum dated January 3rd 2024 and uh just to give a little bit of a spoiler alert you'll recall this is it's going to be an application for an amendment and there was some discussion can we do it administratively or should we have the applicant notice and everyone basically suggested that under the circumstances it was appropriate to Reen noticed so they've Reen noticed and what we'll do is we'll swear in uh Mr Ed Herman is our board engineer and uh Ed do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you providing will be the truth to the best your knowledge to help you gu I do all right and ladies and gentlemen this is Dante alfery he's the applicants attorney and Dante if you could just for internal conflict of interest purposes after you introduce yourself if you could just uh State who your client is and um if you know the principles of the client's name and things like that good evening Sherman members of the board Dante put that real close good evening chairman members of the board Dante Aly on behalf of the applicant um the applicant is Phoenix of mwan Inc they are the owner of 42 m Street we again seeking board's approval for amended major site plan approval um and Kevin you want to know the members if you know uh if you have them okay so it's Phoenix of Madan is the uh applicant um is there any known issues or comments or questions or concerns about conflict okay thank you so tonight we have two individuals just you have to really speak into that mic into the mic so tonight we have two individuals who are going to provide testimony we have Andrew KY who's going to provide engineering testimony and explain to the board what we are proposing tonight and then we also have Christine Kone who's going to provide some planning testimony noted earlier we this this application was previously approved in 2019 where it had two second floor and then two retail spaces on the first Flor one being a micro um the notice we had provided that we were no longer going to pursue the micro Brey but at this time we're no longer going to remove that um my clients would still like to see if they could find a tenant um so the goal is micro Brewery to fit that out and in the event um they're unable to do so we're going to propose a um a use that would be permitted in the zone and meet the parking requirements as approved back in 2019 so without further Ado I'll have Mr com come up and be swor in all right good evening if you could just state your name and business address for the record please yes good evening Andrew Comey COI Kennedy Consulting Engineers at 211 Maple Avenue redb New Jersey all right good evening you're welcome and you're testifying tonight in Your Capacity as a licensed engineer with all your certifications in place correct yes correct and do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide would be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide I do all right and just because we do have a bunch of new board members uh why don't you just briefly send forth your credentials so everyone get get to know I'm a graduate R University in the field of civil engineering I have a 20 years experience in Land Development engineering projects and I am a licensed New Jersey Professional engineer I I believe I've testified before this this the zoning board here several times thank you Mr KY could you uh Orient the board to the site just spell out what we are looking yes you have one just one exhibit and it's this the same uh plan that was submitted but I do have small siiz versions of great so uh we Mark that as A6 and what is A6 it's aite it's entitled site plan rendering prepared by Kennedy Consulting Engineers and it's uh dated 12 15 2023 okay and that big board this is just a little copy of it correct just so everyone is aware the there is a background aerial image on this exhibit uh with a photo date of September 6 2023 one of M Street is to the south of the site the White Street parking lot is to the north and to the east is Lot 27 and excuse me to the east is Lot 25 or the am Amboy Bank lot and lot 27 is to the West which is the better housekeeping property uh existing one story building on the site is approximately 4,500 square feet access in and out of the site is from an access easement on the White Street parking lot which continues on to Lots 25 26 and 27 with a 12 foot wide access eement and you can see on the exhibit that's a that's highlighted in red Dash lines essentially uh the the building in the propos condition uh is will be the same as what was approved on the 2019 approval 4500 for the first floor and two uh two bedroom apartments on the second floor each approximately 2250 sare ft as I said the building square footage for area ratio Building height uh everything will remain the same as far as the building the changes really pertain to the parking area at the rear of the building which we shall go through now so as required on plans eight parking spaces are provided onsite all of which will now be located we assign those I'll say non-conforming spaces to uh to the residents uh also proposed is a refu enclosure where there is none today there's there was a dumpster uh that's that's out there just on the as so what we're proposing is a 10t by 18t area adjacent to the building for trash in recycling which would have a concrete pad and a six foot uh solid vinyl fence on three sides uh similar to what was on the 2019 there will likely be two six-yard dumpsters which are shown uh in green on the rendering which would one one for trash and one for recycling which would be rolled out into the drive a for pickup what we did was uh we we placed the employees only SP adjacent to the trash enclosure that way we make sure that that that the trash enclosure will never be blocked by customer space resident so there'll be full control for when the trash collection is done trash pickup recycling pickup will be done by private hauler uh likely three times per week and of course adjusted as as needed essentially those are the changes versus the fire 2019 plan we' reviewed tm's letter of January 3rd 2024 are there any comments in here that we are to meet no I think I touched on anything other than rning movements number 3 yes the the Turning movements would be essentially s would have to back out into the into that red 12 foot access e put an exit uh to the east it's I I'll admit it's a little tight to fit we had to fit all the design requirements the eight parking spaces trash enclosure the Ada space a six foot sidewalk into an area 2200 square F feet we feel that this design that was submitted was the best uh approach to to meeting all of those goals uh but uh yeah essentially it's it's it's a little tight but the good thing is there there will be very high visibility in this parking area there's no buildings or or any blind turn blocking the line of sight and and the uh the movements in and out of this area should be should be much much less frequent than another you know more more busy parking lot so we feel that the site bu is is sufficient to allow add movement out of this can you elaborate on that because the functionality of being in space seven and eight are they for different apartments bu you know um what are what are they for because somebody just has to move that car seven and eight would be assigned for one of the of the two uh Apartments similarly five and six would be for one of the apartments okay so all right so essentially they you know if they have two CS have to move one temporary okay allow the okay so there no different than a residential use would have a single wide driveway where you put two cars in the driveway you have to figure out okay who's leaving first I'm gonna okay unfortunately it's Red Bank we have tight spaces and sometimes you have to do the best you can I had asked Mr Comey to uh assure us that the spaces would be you know viable and usable uh know 24t aisle width is typical so you should be able to back out uh most people have backup cameras now my only concern is you know space eight could be a a target for a door ding or two with somebody backing out of spaces one two or three perhaps if they go straight back um but I think based on that conversation that we've had thus far and the testimony presented that know this does represent a reasonable approach uh I do have one question for Mr Comey on the uh on the western side spaces one two and three there's no physical separ operation it's it's one parked area correct correct um so my only thought there uh it may be prudent to have an end line striped in addition to the side Stripes that way you would sort of Define where the end of the parking space is supposed to be and where theoretically that would be reasonably close to the presumptive uh property line uh I note in your aerial that there's a car parked in what I'll call the AL Cove of the of the building adjacent to you on the West um so you I think that's important that there there' be some delineation there at least to uh uh to better Define those spaces for everybody including the neighbor uh I'll just iterate that the uh the parking the easement that was shown in red uh you can see very dimly underneath there the parking stalls have been there for some period of time um there was some recent concerns raised uh by the easement through the White Street parking lot which kind of caught my attention and I said you know we really ought to be um attending to that so I was the one unfortunately that precipitated this change but I think it's ultimately better for the long-term viability of this property and so that we don't conflict with other people's rights to use that access and Ed ju just for the record is what is generating this like you just said the initially approved parking sort of was in the midst of an access easement which is technically not really permitted and that could have led to potential problems so this is what they can do next to remove the parking spaces from that access heasman that's correct Mr Kennedy okay you have any other present have Mr to provide some planning testimony to speak anybody Mr before I call our neck witness anybody from the board have questions for Mr Comey anybody from the public have questions for Mr Comey okay close that public portion have Miss testimony and then we okay very good uh good evening Miss Kone good to see you happy New Year if you could just State your uh name and business address yes of course good evening Mr Kennedy and members of the board for the record Christine the phone Happy New Year my business address is 125 Mile Road Sweet 200 redb New Jersey 07701 um my licenses are still current and valid I have testified here in Red Bank on many many occasions including the prior application that was approved by um all right so I'll swear you in do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best of your knowledge to help you guide yes and for the record you're testifying as professional planner yes uh so this is a really straightforward application and that's a reason that we were before The Zing for is does it need the D variance for f so it's floor area ratio so that means the floor area that we were proposing on the building and what was required by The Zone because we're not making any additional improvements to the building the testimony I'm here to offer is that there's no changes from the testimony that was offered this is an amended application and that there's no in my opinion there's no change to the variant you leave that's granted as as typical of your attorney Mr Kennedy he did a voluminous resol uh resolution in Junction with the last application it was well over 20 pages one of the things that was contained in that resolution that I would imagine would be carrying forward is that the basement will be utilized for anything for anything other than storage so that was one of the reasons that we testified uh in conjunction with the last application that the site could handle the F so with that being said I think the board could certainly approve the amended application with regards to the amended uh request for the S approval and the variant you leave as far as the parking one of the things that was also in the resolution last time was that there would be a provision in the lease that the that the residents could only have one vehicle I think that would certainly be something the to continue forward as well to ensure that there' be no substantial detriment Rising again there's really the varant Rel was already granted in conjunction with this application and in my opinion the minor modifications to the parking layout there's no change in the FL area there's no change in the park so there's no no need to uh provide the full testimony just for me to testify simply that there's no change to the okay anybody got any questions for anybody from the public have any question from this White House okay thank you and just one more clean up matter really need to speak up we're not piing up at all um one more clean up matter I believe we require an extension of time a onee extension that correct Mr Kennedy I believe now Shauna you had indicated that they previously obtained an extension but and remember when we approved this in 2019 we have a a shelf life within which the applicants need to obtain permits and Shauna uh we they're here now so they may as they're going to seek to extend the time frame for an additional oneyear period That's the request concerns about that any any questions any any comments from the public on that issue any okay somebody like to make a motion to approve this Kevin would you sure if if the board is so inclined you could uh vote to authorize the amend the site plan as uh presented for those reasons and I've taken the liberty of writing down some of the conditions that I thought might be appropriate uh one would be obviously compliance with all the promises and commitments and the representations that the applicants team made tonight uh compliance with the tnm associates review memorandum dated January 3rd 2024 and I'm guess well we previously approved it for a micro Brewery use and I think what we're saying now is it can be that same micro Brewery use that was previously or initially approved or another permitted use yeah I think the testimony the the notice said they wanted to withdraw the micro Brewery but the testimony for tonight was that they want to retain it they think they might be able to still find that tenant for fit out um the whole idea was the permitted uses would be in the prior resolution there was commentary that uh it was supposed to be a pasta restaurant which I understand is not a full kitchen sitdown scenario perhaps a lighter Duty restaurant if you will um so the board had put in the resolution of approval previously that uh they would be allowed to have any permitted use up to an including a restaurant occupy that space so that becomes important because typically if you have you know a retail use versus is a restaurant use you would expect the restaurant use to have a heavier parking demand required so uh as part of the testimony previously that specific area was addressed I presume it had something to do with the fact that they bought a you know multi- hundred parking stall from the municipal lot there so that probably weighed into the consideration and it was written that they wouldn't have to come back for additional approval if they wanted a restaurant for instance So in theory the way it's written right now if they wanted to do a restaurant for the entire floor or they wanted to do two separate restaurants or Brewery and a restaurant a brew so there's any number of options possibilities that they have um and The Way It Was Written last time was that they would not have to come back to the board uh to get any further relief or or permission if you will um which and I think I heard Mr aluy say that notwithstanding anything contained in the prior resolution to the contrary if it's a permitted retail use with the same parking you're totally fine uh but that I think you said if it's uh whatever permitted use you're doing generates more than the retail parking you would come back is that what I heard yes okay is that okay with you I sure and then obviously the conditions would be compliance with all the other terms and conditions of the prior approval from 2019 unless specifically OVI by this uh presentation tonight uh compliance with affordable housing rule rules and regulations and an affordable housing plan submitted to our affordable housing attorney if required development agreement if return if required we're going to extend the time frame uh for one year and we'll figure out what that uh time frame that'll be retroactively effective as necessary Ed you said we want to have them endline striped uh endline striped bases one two and three yes and then basement only uh is storage only so Mr chairman if that is acceptable to the board you can vote and if it's not you can vote okay would somebody like to make a motion to approve or deny this application I'll approve it based on Mr Kennedy second second yes M yes Hogan yeso yes Sher Lee yes Paul kago yes and Anna Cruz yes okay good Lu okay and Mr chairman one last thing on this for my discussion with the board um I have a resolution of approval uh I prepared ahead of time there is absolutely no requirement that we accept it um if you want I can speed read it into the record or if you want we have it adopted at the next meeting and I think also our our friend the court reporter on the next application needs some time to set up so might be defitely definitely one of those robust so this would be basically real real briefly that the applicant previously obtained approval for the separation of the existing ground floor retail space into two separate units including a micro Brewer use and another permitted use and a construction of the Second Story containing two bedroom units and public hearings occurred on September 20th 2018 and May 16 2019 resolution I mean sorry the application was conditionally improved a memorializing resolution was adopted there's been no no and appeal and because of that easement issue and the parking in the easement issue and that uh situation the applicant has had to come back uh seeking amended relief and the amended relief I won't repeat it but was all what Mr Comey had had indicated and basically uh we're going to say that uh based upon uh everything presented this board is granting and approving the amended application and the findings of fact include the following uh the Red Banks Zing board adjustment retains jurisdiction to modify a prior approval from the Red Banks Zing board under the circumstances uh it was not appropriate for the proposed changes to be administratively approved rather under the circumstances was appropriate to consider the proposed modifications in the context of a public hearing with notice being provided in accordance with statutory ordinance requirements if we didn't require that notice uh interested members of the Comm community may have been denied from act having actual knowledge of the proposed amendments and an administrative approval under these circumstances would likely have prevented any meaningful public review or participation had people wanted to meaningly participate um it is feared that an administrative approval under these circumstances might not have been totally transparent and would not have advanced the overall interest of the public or the bur of Red Bank so the applicants Representatives did public publicly notied for this application the amendment and we appreciate that uh we'll talk about what those proposed amendments were those modifications were discussed during the public hearing process and those amendments are not materially or dramatically going to change the nature of the board's initial approval they're not materially going to change the overall nature of the initially approved plans they're not going to change materially change the architectural details of what was previously approved they're not going to change materially change the intensity or the density of what was previously approved approved uh they're not changing the location of what was previously approved we're not changing the height of what was previously approved uh there's no new driveways no new curve Cuts uh presented uh we're not changing the nature of the previously approved uses but if the micro reuse is not um uh utilized there will be another permitted use uh we're not having by this approval we're not having injecting any new non-conforming use um again let's see approval of this amended application is not going to materially change the number of all street parking spaces associated with the prior approval it's not going to materially change the nature of the variance relief associated with the prior approval it's not going to uh change the number of off street parking spaces specifically dedicated to the residential occupants in the prior approval there's no new variances created you're not exacerbating any previously granted variances uh we're not changing the previously through floor area ratio we're not changing the number of overall units it's not changing the lighting details we not changing uh illumination levels we're not changing garbage and recycling materially changing garbage and recycling detail not changing Landscaping not materially changing the overall appearance of the development and approval of the within application for the amended uh proposal will not cause substantial detriment to the public good we're going to extend that uh con period of time for the permits for one year and let's see approval of this application in conjunction with the conditions noted will not imped the intent or uh purposes of the Burrow's master plan and the approval of this amended application will have no no negative impact on joining properties and also the board hereby reaffirms and reiterates uh all the findings of fact and conditions associated with the initial approval and I won't repeat the conditions again but Mr chairman if that's acceptable um we can adopt that resolution but again no requirement that we do that totally up to the board okay somebody like to make a motion to approve that resolution I will a little bit of you said two two bedrooms and I think the first paragraph Yes in your speed I think you just said said two bedrooms oh I'm sorry two bedroom apart two two-bedroom units two two bedom unit yes okay I love the fact that you're paying attention only the first [Laughter] minute an Tori yes Raymond Mass yes e Hogan yes Ben Euro yes Sher Lee Yes Paul kagu yes and a Cruz yes okay good luck okay next up we have 87 Riverside Avenue LC right Mr chairman as the applicants team comes forward we do have a couple of uh preliminary procedural things that we need to address this is Jennifer crimpco she's the applicant's attorney uh Jennifer can I just uh take a few minutes to get us all up to speed procedurally okay so what we're going to do is the applicant uh was here for a public hearing which started on I think it was February 2nd 2023 and as I recall Jennifer we had a couple hour or two of testimony and after some testimony evidence was presented and we had some board questions and some public questions and comments the matter was adjourned with the official consent of the applicant and further public notice was required now the application was thereafter adjourned on apply applicants request on a number of occasions and always uh with the consent of the applicants legal representatives and ultimately after a number of uh continuations uh Shauna um basically basically said you know we can continue this but you're going to have to Ren notice and Miss crico on behalf of the applicant said of course we will so that's always appreciated now recently the applicant team caused the plans to be revised and they were scheduled for tonight January 4th 2024 now I previously spoke with Miss primco and Shauna I think communicated with her as well and we said hey are you gonna start over um what's your plan and if you know you might want to start over just because the first hearing was so long ago and in February and the plans have been revised and we had a a high level of composition change of the composition I on the board with the new form of government the board was technically reconstituted and you know uh did what people have forgotten even if they were here um from so many months ago so miss gmco as I recall pretty said I really want to I don't want to start over let's let's do this a continuation so we're here tonight as a continuation and continuations are very common not necessarily 11 months later but generally speaking we always carry in a journ so under New Jersey Law if a board member was not present for the February 2nd 2023 meeting they the board members cannot vote on an application unless they certify on paper and on the record that they reviewed the the tape for the transcripts of the prior meeting and it's not just the minutes it's actually a tape or CD of the meeting at PS Mr chairman um uh that law about absent members even appli to some of our new friends who were not even on the board at the time of February of 2023 so shaa our director of Community Development uh was good enough to make the tape and CD available for board members um including some board members who were just not here board members but were not present on February 2nd and even the board members who were um not even board members so anyway so for the record recordkeeping purposes we should make sure we're all on the same page as to which board members can vote tonight if we get to a vote tonight and incidentally um if there is a board member here tonight who was not here on February 2nd 2003 or was otherwise not eligible to vote tonight that board member can still participate tonight ask questions make comments make statements but they just can't vote tonight if there turns out to be a vote tonight and those uh specific board members could simply listen to the tapes in the future and come back at that point so Shauna just for the record we can coordinate and this is important for Miss crico too uh who's all here tonight and who can participate so I have a number of before I speak for the record Jennifer on behalf of the applicant uh we also did provide the printed transcript which I believe would have been available as well and if and if we don't conclude tonight there our board members that want to review that we do have that as well awesome yes we do have the electronic and the hard copies awesome perfect so what we're going to do is we are starting uh Jennifer my notes or Shaun say that we begin at B2 so I'm G to Mark as B2 is a certification from board member an Tori that she reviewed the tapes of that February 2nd 2023 meeting so that's going to be B2 and then uh B three will be certification written certification here from Paul pagno that he reviewed the tapes of that February 2nd 20123 meeting and then B4 is going to be the written certification of huge board member Eugene harwitz that he listened to the tape of the February 2nd 2023 uh meeting that's B4 and then B5 is going to be the certification of board member Ben Euro that he reviewed or listened to the tape of that February 2nd 2023 meeting so we'll give those to our friend Alina and so now just sha um math not being my strong suit uh how many eligible people do we have here tonight all right so for the record I have in my notes that uh chair Mass was here uh e Hogan and Sharon Lan were also present at February meeting so okay so and incidentally a big shout out to all of our board members who were able to listen to the tapes because listening to tapes it's not always easy it's not always fun and it is a time commitment but it is important uh particularly on those applications which are continued and carried and also um for the record uh sh I give a a double shout out or a double star or double check plus to the board members who listened who weren't even board members at the time um that definitely is very nice very important and it definitely evidences a strong and impressive commitment to the burrow and to the board to the public and to the applicant and finally just uh for those who listen to the tapes um you can now see why Mr chairman with just with our our friend Dante alfery there kept saying speak into the mic speaking to the mic because when you listen to the tapes you'll see sometimes that people turn away uh you don't hear them or if there's multiple uh conversations going on or sidebars or uh plans are being rustled in the into the mic and that compromises the efficiency of the tape so you listening to the tape you sort of see that anyway uh back to the issue at hand so shaa we're all good tonight and um let's see we then um uh let's see I know this procedural history is sort of long but it's important because we need to be clear and we want the public to understand and if there is ever litigation uh we want the record to be uh totally totally clear and remember we as a zoning board are a quasi judicial agency so we sort of have to act like a court um so this is a good thing and on top of everything else it's the right thing to do you all as a board are very thorough very deliberative and uh you know this is why we do this so now just a couple other things to address real quickly tonight and I don't want to steal Miss crico's Thunder and I will not but it's my thunder with to thanking and complimenting the board MERS L things but go ahead let's see what else you can see great mind s away so this is a little bit of a of a complex and nuance application and I'm not going to go into the the details but at first glance you might think hey it's a pretty straightforward application there's an existing billboard and they want a new billboard and you would think maybe after hearing the testimony evidence you're going to either yes you approve it or yes you approve it with conditions or you deny it um but upon further review some legally complex matters at hand there's many ordinance provisions and Miss kmco will talked about that there's some state regulations at play there's some con institutional and Free Speech issues and it's very very nuanced and uh Mr chairman nuanced is I think a fancy way of saying complicated so basically it's just um just I think at the very very beginning uh back before February Jennifer and I had a conversation which we basically ended up she was good enough to Ren notice because there was so much issues and Shauna and Ed Herman and and Jennifer and I had had a a conversation and just won't worry with the details but we all started you know positions a b c d by the middle of the conversation I had taken Jennifer's position sheo sha and anyway so lot lot of issues that that need to be addressed so it's just some procedurally nuanced issues and I just want to adverge the board of of that and some of those issues are going to be in very very simplistic terms the site plan approval required is this a use a D1 use variance is it a d two variance for an expansion of a non-conforming use is both Varian is required is site plan required is this a principal use is it a principal structure is it accessory use an accessory structure lots of questions so we're going to have to get get into that and um I was speaking with the councilman in the back earlier before the when I walked into the meeting if you're a a zoning geek or a zoning Enthusiast this is this is your night because lot of complicated issues there get started so and also and I way back 2025 years absolutely and the other thing is it's important because all those different combinations of of uh St of of relief require different standards and and so we want the record to be straight again in the event of litigation so that's the basis of why we come here tonight and just one more continual thing is one of the things that Jennifer crimpco did um very impressively was she put together a a super um intense notice and she basically said hey I want an interpretation as to this issue I want an interpretation as to this issue interpretation as to this issue and and so that's what you're going to hear about tonight and you will recall that uh an interpretation is something that's very unique and specific to this board the New Jersey municipal land use law says if someone has or wants an interpretation of an ordinance they come to this board Mr chairman we don't have too many interpretations but you'll recall a couple months ago we had the massage school application and it sort of was an appeal of B's decision but of morphed into an interpretation so anyway that's um and again many nuances and I just want to point out one other thing um we always hear the applicants attorney and the obor's attorney and the planners always say hey there's no precedent with this decision if you approve one barber shop that doesn't mean you have to approve another barber shop and If you deny one residential apartment complex you don't to deny another one um because the what everyone says and it's always correct is that each individual application will rise or fall on its own Merit however there's a little bit of a caveat when we're talking about an interpretation if you give ultimately an interpretation of a or b or c um there will be uh precedential effect to that so Shauna if we give a uh just like with that massage school we gave an interpretation essentially and you can now rely on that to our future applications yes so so anyway uh nothing nothing wrong with that I just wanted to until the board or the burough Council will to change the the ordinance so anyway that's what we're going to hear a lot about tonight and basically um we're going to let the application unfold and now we're getting into the heart of the matter so first up Jennifer kmco issued a notice a public notice and is there anyone here who had any question questions or comments regarding this sufficiency of the notice this is not the time to say I like the application or I don't just anyone had any questions on the notice all right I don't see any uh the board secretary and Sean and I reviewed the notice and found everything uh to be in order so it be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight and I'll just for the record because the notice was so thorough and is going to be a format uh an outline for much the hearing I'm going to enter the notice as A8 is what I had it Jennifer starting with that's correct okay and now just as we're I promise my my list is getting short just for internal conflict purposes uh Jennifer if you can just State you whether the owner's name and the um I know there's a document somewhere and the client's name and the principles just so we can I know we did this at the very beginning it at the beginning and it's I don't think it's the owner I think it's just the applicant under the mpal on the applicant is outfront Media LLC it's a publicly traded company there are no members or entities that own 10% or more okay so does anyone now that we say that because you never know when you're dealing with a corporation or an LLC and because there are so many new board members I did want to go over that again is there anyone uh here on the board who has any questions or comments uh about conflicts or potential conflicts seeing none okay and so now what we'll do is we'll Mark into uh evidence what we have as at the board that's been submitted so I'm going to say uh alen what did I just say okay so I'm gonna start off with a19 is going to be the bulk variance plan prepared by Dynamic engineering and that's dated May 4th 2022 last revised December 7th 2023 and that's four sheets a20 is a billboard location exhibit D prepared by Dynamic engineering dated December 7th 2023 one sheet a21 is a narrow view technology exhibit prepared by Dynamic engineering dated December 7th 2023 one sheet a22 is a cover letter or a narrative from Jennifer crimpco to Shauna and she was explaining some of those changes and that was dated December 18 2023 uh so we'll mark that and then we're going to mark as B what am I up to [Music] Elena B6 oh okay so B6 is going to be the tnm associates review memorandum dated January 4th 2024 and I think at least my recollection is that uh Ed's letter sort of followed the format to an extent of Jennifer's uh notice and also uh Shauna I see here we have a review Memo from Red Bank River Center should I I'll mark that into the record the applicant was not afforded a copy I think it just came out so we have an extra copy for Jennifer I have an okay so we're gonna mark this as B7 and this is uh Red Bank River Center and Jennifer it was on our desk when we came in tonight so I think it's just hot off the presses it's Red Bank River Center and that's dated January 4 2024 you have another exra copy if you do we can just um give Sean I mean's clients can can read that too as we go forward okay I imagine it's somewhat similar to the last one okay so now uh for the witnesses let's see we're going to swear in uh Ed Herman our board engineer and we're also gonna swear in Shauna Ebanks our director of Planning and Zoning so Ed and shaa if you could just Raise Your Right hands uh you both swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you providing will be the truth the best of your knowledge to help you guide I do okay and then Shauna just for the record um your qualifications for the record you're a professional planner yes I am AIC okay and Ed Herman you're testifying in Your Capacity as professional engineer with some planning certifications I do hold a professional planner's license in the state of New Jersey okay and Mr chairman I have a big stop sign here saying stop so that that's the end of my speech so Jennifer thank you I for indulging me in that I just wanted to set the record straight uh procedural hope I didn't derail your proceedings but Happy New Year and welcome Jenn from here the applicant does anybody need a break thank you and and I tease Kevin but honestly he is the most thorough board attorney that uh I know and that's certainly why You' reappointed in here year after year after year uh I want to thank the board members as I said who were not uh here at the PRI meeting listening to the tape it it can not only be um boring but it can also be somewhat confusing without having the benefit of seeing people here I'm hoping that I can clarify everything as we go through it tonight so I'm going to just give you some background of what happened the last meeting by way of summary what we're proposing tonight what we intend to present to you tonight I do have more exhibits I would like to wait as we go through my witnesses to hand them out uh so when we appeared back in February of 2023 as Kevin said we were seeking several interpretations and ultimately depending on the interpretations that the board made an approval for the modernization of an existing non-conforming static fil sign when I say static that just means uh non-digital it's put on there and stuck on there it stays there for a while until trucks come and remove it on the property as you all know was 180 187 Riverside Avenue block 4.01 Lots one and two the original submission was to construct a 40 foot tall structure with a sign face of 44.7 square feet of sign message to modernize the existing 22t tall 480t static billboard The Proposal was for that digital billboard to operate 24 hours a day you first heard testimony from John anall the general manager for the New Jersey Media LLC he provided background on the company as well as the Billboards existing in Red Bank today he further explained to the board that there's no way to modernize the technology or lack of Technology of the static billboard to convert to a digital billboard without replacing the structure that holds it with uh steel supports so it does require a total replacement that's unlike other types of uses that are not a um digital enhancement or a modernization he also explained that the original existing billboard that dated back to the 60s was uh lined up with the two lanes that Cooper's Bridge used to be many years ago and now that the branches four lanes as part of our modernization we wanted to slightly relocate it to center it on those four lanes the same way it was previous CER two lanes for the reconfigured highway Mr Anto went on to talk about the state law that regulates Billboards in New Jersey uh as implemented by the New Jersey Department of Transportation there was a lot of people called do and the digital billboard is not permitted to have any motion animation waving appearance of motion in any way the images will change instantaneously and seamlessly every 8 seconds and while there may not be a digital billboard today B we're all familiar with digital Billboards uh up and down 35 with on NE City oal Township edent town uh all along Route 35 now there were questions about well what's the benefit to the applicant to have this won't it uh enhance financially and there was a question with regard to well how much and we can stipulate that a digital billboard will uh generate approximately on average depending on the location and and how popular is about three times that which is static build you know it was a question at the last meeting we did not have the number off the top of our head so we'll hover that but what I will tell you is and what's more important to you for purposes of considering this application whether it be for bulk variants or use variants is that the benefits of the digital billboard versus a static are much greater than the financial benefit to the owner building there are many public benefits that come with a digital billboard versus a static Billard first as you heard from Mr onel there's free use to Municipal County and state agencies for emergency messaging like evacuation notices or other Public Safety messages as was testified as is typically the case without front Billboards there is free use to the burrow in which it's located to display non-emergency Municipal messages and announcements when space is available meaning when it's not already been purchased by advertisers there is clearly a need for this in Ric as we all know because I moved a an exhibit into the record as :15 which were photos of the uh Burrow's somewhat rudimentary public messaging uh Temporary Service sitting on our lot the same lot that we're seeking approval for today but more than the uh commity Community public benefit there's also a benefit to the businesses uh within the burrow of uh Red Bank anding area there was a question uh at the original meeting as to well how much of it's local and one of the exhibits I'm going to present to you is the list of 32 local businesses and local means New Jersey based businesses uh that have advertised on uh the outfront billboard since 2022 of those at least onethird have a physical presence in red B and we're going to hand that out and discuss it and what the digital billboard does it gives the ability for smaller businesses to get a piece of the digital billboard pie so to speak or a slice of the pizza as we uh metaphorically described it at the last meeting due to the cost of constructing the static billboard me message the work involved with placement and replacement of the face most static stay up for longer periods of times and are therefore expensive both for uh construction and putting up and replacing them but also for rental and that makes them unachievable by small or startup local businesses but as you heard from the testimony uh of Mr anel at the last meeting the digital billboard allows these local and smaller businesses to purchase an 8C ad at a much lower price than the monthly static billboard rental thereby opening up the billboard advertising to a much wider ARR of these local smaller businesses equally as importantly the messaging on a digit digital billboard can be timely irrelevant as to the time of day the weather conditions or conditions unique to a business such as a grand opening sale or other special event or even a car wash being closed because of the inclement weather this is impossible to do with a static billboard after John anel testified we had Thiago DTE from Dynamic engineering who went through the exhibits and the technical aspects of the proposal and he answered questions from the board and the public well we heard a lot of concerns of the then sitting board and the three board members who are here tonight and we heard a lot of concerns from the public and I apologize for the long delay but there was quite a bit of work that had to be done in order to get us back here tonight with the application that's before you and I'm happy to be back nearly a year later with a very different proposal and as was outlined in my letter that Kevin moved into evidence we're reducing the proposed height from 40 feet which was originally submitted to 27 feet that's only 5 feet taller than the existing static billboard that's on the property and it's similar in height as you'll see from the exhibits as to the gas station sign that exists on the property which we are opposing to remove the reduction Sor I said just I missed that similar in size to the what the gas station existing gas station sign on the property exhib now you're going to hear you're going to hear when we get through testimony that there is um a distinction between a non-conforming structure and a non-conforming use that's from a planning perspective and from a legal perspective now and I'm not going to go into it at a great that the original meeting your ordinance simply defines billboard by its size any sign that is over 200 square feet is by definition so if uh a restaurant had a 201 square foot sign it would be a billion so under your ordinance you define a billboarding purely by sign by size excuse and typically as you're going to hear from our planner when you categorize a requirement by size like Distance by a number a quantifiable number that is a bulk standard meaning you can't have a sign more than 100 square feet and a house bigger than five so the size is not the use so we have to look at what the intention was of the wi and what the actual use is you heard from the um definitions that were described in the record at the last meeting it's taken right from the state statute really the use is a message that is advertising a use that is off premises so the distinction of what we have here is what's the use versus what's the structure and when we look at what the use is that's not permitted and that is an off advertising you have to look at well how do you judge the intensity of that use well the size of the um the same way that the number of bedrooms would uh describe the intensity of a multif family dwelling or residential dwelling the size of the message would typically be how you would describe the intensity of that message and in this case we are actually reducing that non-conforming use or the non-conforming off- premise message down from the existing 480 square feet to proposed 380 square feet so while there was discussion about expanding and non-conforming use as you're going to hear uh it's the applicant's position that we're not expanding the non we're actually reducing the non-conform we recognize we're changing the structure but there's a distinct distinction between the type of relief needed for non-conforming use versus a non-conforming structure and that you know is the difference between a d variance or a c variance we'll get into it in great detail I just want to put that in your mind because it it's going to be discussed throughout the meeting I think the most significant of the uh changes that the applicant is offering tonight as part of this amendment application is we are proposing that if the board were to approve the modernization of the conversion of this existing pre-existing non-conforming billboard use to a digital billboard outfront would commit as a condition of approval to remove its static Billboards in permanence from two locations in Redbank and as you're going to see on the exhibit that we presented to that we will be sub actually it was marked in we did submit it advance I apologize that was marked into evidence that represents six sign faces so while it is on two structures so it's two non-conforming structures each structure has double fa and there's three faces on each one for a total of six total signs or six total non-conforming uses that we're proposing will be eliminated uh so when we talk about this application expanding and nonconforming use even if our sign itself was staying the same size I think arguably we could say that generally speaking we are reducing overall the non-conforming use of a bill of billboards in Red Bank additionally as you're going to hear we're proposing and committing God bless you thank you to implementing narrow view technology with this proposed billboard and what that does is and you'll see in the exhibit that was worked in it drastically limits the sign view area or the angle from which the message can be seen there were a lot of questions and comments about who's going to see it who it's going to disrupt particularly the residential neighbors and as you're going to see that's going to have a drastic mitigation the concessions that I just stated were all included in my submission of December 18 but after Consulting with my client and uh reconsidering the plans and comments from Mr Herman we're prepared to actually offer two more concessions that we would agree to as conditions of approval if the board would have vote favorably the first is we would agree to limit the use of the sign from 700 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and what that means is that the dig the digital message will be turned off during the nighttime hours pursuant to the ordinance and it would eliminate the variance as it relates to the operation of lighted sign from the hours of 11: pm. to 7: am. and I think that also addresses a lot of the concerns the neighbors had about the potential of the sign being visible to them at night when they were trying to sleep and then uh I see that uh the the former board chair is no longer on the board but one of the questions that she drilled down on pretty hard at the meeting was well are we guaranteed that we're going to get to use your public service messaging for nonemergency or is it you know just when you have extra space and how do we know you won't have extra space well out front is committed to guarantee to the burrow if this is approved the use of the assign for non-emergency Municipal messages at a rate of 8 seconds every 1 minute based on a 64 minute SEC a 64 second minute what does that mean realistically well the 16-hour operating period from 7: am. to 11: p.m. that means that 12 a half% of the Billboard's operating time will be donated for free to the burrow for its use that equals 120 Minutes of free board use a day every day that it's an operation so with that setting the stage framework of what we're actually here for tonight we just want to let you know that instead of Thiago following up you're going to hear from his colleague danr D's wife is due to have a baby any moment it may even be happening now so as much as he wanted to be here with you tonight think he made the right decision by staying home with his wife just in case uh d and will'll go over the new propos plan he'll explain the narrow view technology and we'll both some of the other exhibit goes on and then we'll present the testimony professional planner who you just heard pristine what I'm proposing to do is she's going to testify as to each of the questions for interpretation from a planning perspective but then she's going to offer the uh planning support for each variance regardless of what you interpret and and the reason we do that is is that even if you the board interprets we only need a C1 variance and then we testify for the C1 variance and you grant it a neighbor or some other objector could appeal it so we want to make sure that should this go to court even if we come to a amicable resolution between the board and the applicant that we've covered all of our bases when reviewing Court would have the ability to understand what the board's decision was in in all accounts so with that almost as long as Kevin's opening um what I'd like to do is start by introducing Dan doerty have him sworn and then once he's sworn I'll move some additional items into evidence I do have handouts for everybody and extras for the public okay all right good evening if you could just uh state your name and spell your last name please Danel do d u gty Dynamic engineering Consultants you got to speak into the mic speak real close all right so Daniel d o u g h e r t y correct and business address 1904 Main Street L okay if you could just raise your right hand do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best you knowledge to help you guide yes I do and just for the record you're testifying tonight in Your Capacity as professional engineer thank you your license as and you've been accepted as an expert in front of I don't know about this board but W for planning board of Red Bank um and also you know between Awards of 100 other boards throughout New Jersey we submit a message okay so and before we get started on this testimony at the uh prior meeting we moved in as 813 Emergency Services protocol B and what that was was the uh agreement that we would offer to the town as it relates to the non-emergency um use of the sign and what we did was there was a a there was a printing error with that so one to clarify the printing error and two to update it to provide for the 120 Minutes of use between 7 AM to 11:00 p.m I'd like to move in as 8:23 a revised uh protocol B which is tailored specific to the profer that I gave at the beginning with regard to what we would uh for the town okay it's okay I'll hand one to Mr Euro and thank you pass long there are extras for the puzzle is a list of local local as I indicated before New Jersey advertisers on out front boards uh since 2022 I'm sorry so it's a list of local New Jersey businesses who have advertised with advertised on Red Bank Billboards on by out front okay is there a a date on that or no there is not okay and you'll notice that we included Wawa as a local business while its headquarters are in Pennsylvania because there's an actual physical location we didn't that p25 is a photo of the existing site and what it does show you in the the previous uh one that we gave you we just had a picture of the town's temporary signage which they placed on the property this one shows it in the context of the existing two signs and I think it gives a good view of what's existing there on the property today so this is a25 you know off hand who took that picture yeah I think it might have I think it was a representative of uh thank you and so Jennifer just for the recordkeeping purposes you can basically comfortably say that that's an accurate depiction yes okay that's uh 826 if you'd like me to slow down I can Kevin I'm good thanks 826 is a two-page exhibit and it shows the uh um six billboard faces that are proposed to be removed I know that we submitted an exhibit which showed the location and a small version of it this I think will help familiarize everybody a little bit more that's a26 almost done un likee Kevin I really am almost uh and then lastly a27 you're going to ask me so I'm going to count page 27 is a 13 page packet prepared by outfront photos taken by Dynamic engineering and it's similar to what we moved into EV at the last meeting um which one it was maybe it was A6 um or A5 and and what it is it's a uh it's photos of existing conditions and then inacurate as was Mr an computer generation based on a crane test that was given of what what the sign would look like to scale if approved so that would be a27 all right so say the last part again it's a depiction of it's a 13 page packet which we're going to walk through so it's photos of the existing conditions and the proposed conditions as computer generated to scale so what the sign will look like exercise to yeah yeah that I'm going to turn this over to Dan and have him walk through the application from a technical perspective with regard to what we're as well as the narrow view technology we'll take a moment to go through the exhibits with to uh better understand uh visually what we're going to so um ASCO indicated we made some changes to um primarily um there's three elements of the sign itself that we're changing reducing the size of the sign the square footage of the sign we're reducing the height of the Sun and we're making a minor modification to the heart to the location of the sign position of sign on site that's really just reflection of the change in the size ofion so go through the size first PR the existing Billboard's 480 feet indicated test from my my my partner Thiago previously proposed sign was 454 square feet and we've now reduced that to 380 square feet so that's a about a 20.8% reduction from the existing sign and about a 16 a. half% reduction from what we previously proposed dimensions of the sign let let me just correct you I don't think that's accurate I think you it's 23% reduction in height from what was previously proposed and 16% in area from what was previously proposed well no it's it's 20.8 in in area reduction percentage from the existing sign and 16% in area reduction from what we had previously proposed so so from 480 down to 380 is a 208% reduction and from 454 down to 380 16.4 the dimensions of the sign are 10 about 10 and a half ft High by Sor say say it again 10 and a half fet High 10.49 ft high and and when you say the signed in you mean the signed face that we're talking about that's correct the the the digital face itself that's correct and that's 10.49 ft High by 3.22 wide 36 point 22 feet wide yes and you'll see on our plan it's actually represented in some very minute fractions come straight from the sign manufacturer so I'm just G and that's also Kevin that is in my letter that I submitted perfect the the sign was previously proposed at 40 ft and we're reducing that now to 27 ft that's sign to the top of the sign so that's a 32 a half% reduction about about a third reduction in the height of the sign from 30 down to 27 and then the position of the sign changes slightly it's not really an intent for us to change the position of sign it's it's a matter of the sign having gotten smaller in width that creates an increase in the front yard setep back to Bridge Avenue so where the bridge Avenue setback was previously 25 ft from the side of the sign the western side of the sign the Bridge Avenue Frontage that's now 29 ft because sign has shrunk in that direction same setback we we still have the same set back to Riverside Drive that's 93.4 ft uh same set back to the proper to the rear about 36 feet that's from back or structure I'm sorry I'm sorry just 93.4 that setback to which Riverside and then the6 foot setback to the rear structure lot three rear and that's to the back of the pull that is our support that's correct what is the SE to the back of the sign face 1.6 and under existing conditions that setb back from that structure the existing structure is only1 so we're actually increasing set back and there's also a small change to our East yard set it's really just again a matter dimensional it's changing by about6 feet so to our East 24.01 were 656 feet now we even 65 and Dan one more thing um we're not all and I know it's up by a minute mount but it still is in in increas in setback as opposed to decrease not only are we increasing the setback of the but there's currently five poles that the sign sits on and as was the testimony the last one reducing that down to one so the actual structures at ground level that will have any impact on the neighbor is going five to one and being that's correct so there's less bottom of the sign and the ground on the site in the proposed conditions than there is that's really it for the for the um americ changes to what we're proposing for this time um to introduce the narrow view technology um information that was submitted application p21 yes Jennifer let's um that document that that map we already have that that's your that's the narrow view exhibit that you is want thank you all this isn't um different it's not a change in the size of the sign that we're proposing but it's actually a change in the type of LED that's being utilized on the sign it's a change from what we previous testimony last February and that's why it's important um so previously um Mr dwar had given you testimony that there's a viewshed of the sign LED as it could be from the sign Cas um that that's measured in degrees from being straight out from each LED module so as the LED is pointing out in a straight Direction You Can it can be visible under the previous proposal 60 degrees to either side so approximately 120 degrees from the direction of the pointing there's aent Vision that's approximately 120 degrees and that's the testimony that Mr dor gave you previously he exhibit that same effect where it showed the 6 260 Dee amount adding up to about 120 um out's recently been able to modify um and they actually provide lers veral lers within those modules now that are larger than further straight that con of vision so you get less spill sorry less spillage of the light out to either side and I just want to just it's not spillage of the lights less light visible that's correct less less ability to for for um to be a to view the LED element from the side of Center and now if you're outside of that in the previous 120 degrees and and propose the com we're proposing now you essentially won't see a digital message you won't see the LED lights you'll just see a black screen that's correct you see you see the the plastic movers that are incorporated into the design you don't see any light source so rather than seeing light source just now what is the what is the uh degree of vision from the front of the sign so so that angle's been reduced from 60 Dees to 25 degrees so from the center of the LED as it faces out out to the public or to the roadway wherever wherever it's directed rather than seeing a full swing of 60 degrees to the left and 60 degrees to the right seeing only 25 degrees to the left and 25 degrees to the right and on the exhibit that you presented you have a hatched area the two triangles those are the areas that previous L would have been visible and no longer will be that's exactly right those hatched areas that you see on the exhibit would have been locations where you to be able to view the LED lighting element from the west side in this case the east side of the sign Northwest and northeast side of the sign that now will not be able to see that lighting El the only locations where you'll see the lighting El is in that clear unshaded portion in the middle that points straight up on this site North across the river and across the PO Bridge represents over a 40% reduction in that whole cone of vision from 120 approximately 120 degrees down to 50es okay and at the last meeting uh there was testimony from Mr about what Billboards we have in town today rather than give you a list with addresses which I believe was originally requested you would actually prepare a billboard location exhibit which as a corresponding chart with regard to the do permitting as for each of those so if you could just explain first to the board you know what each of the numers mean and what that chart means outr operates um 14 sites throughout uh Red Bank that have copy and advertising on it to that's listed is number 14 on our site and bottom of those bottom so what we've indicated is in a in in a circle a colored circle with a number in the middle of those locations to down on that same exhibit that you have have it I don't have that it's this it was submitted as part of was in previous and I apologize but I know you guys didn't have the hard copies I would have printed 17 and what what exhibit number is it this exhibit 820 really summary town There's approximately five signsin of Front Street and the railroad Front Street Avenue that's just a general approx there five or six are located in the southern half of town between the center of town and Newman Springs Road sign that's up in theeast part of and then in red we have sign number and sign that were front permanently eliminated if the board want to Grant approval for this modernization of this location that correct that's correct and it only has two numbers because it it's only two billboard locations so it's two permits right that's correct it's two permits on two different loc but at location 12 it's a single sign it's it's a double sign two signs and a location actually the other way around oh I'm sorry location 10 is um on shury Avenue between Front Street and MTH Street this is really just across the railroad tracks from the Galleria back of the and on the north end of the parking lot for the building that has sickles in it now so that sign face has two parallel sign faces um on the inset that's the arrow and the arrow leader is drawn to number 10 it's the top inset you'll see there's two sign faces and each one of those has two sides and that's on 826 that we moved in that's labeled 6805 Rec and that's the reason why I just gave you another copy of that so those are Li billboard faces um that are currently operating see them um again the two faces are two faces are facing north um along uh both the railroad and shy Avenue and then two faces are facing south and Jennifer just so that I don't forget later on I know these are on a26 it shows four Billboards but how did you get up to the the six are you saying some of them are giving up two permits permit 10 is four billboard faces and permit 12 is two billboard faces from total of six billboard faces so thank you so so the next location is location 12 that's located at the West End of um Oakland Street where intersects will the parking lot of the north transation side okay as you go westbound on Oakland Street and you go into the parking lot for the train station there's a billboard on the north side of Oakland Street the face is fa East and West so in other words incoming to Oakland SE side and when you're leaving the park you can see a sign or the sign faces the train tracks so those are those two faces so that's how we have those six faes four at the first location two and two and two back to back at the second location near the train station and that's a total of six spaces two permits that would be eliminated under this application right and and importantly as as I stated in my opening and that you're going to hear from our planner is the use that's not permitted is advertising for off premise well it's on a total of two structures really we're talking about six non-conforming uses because each face is an advertisement for premises each face is more than 200 square feet under your ordinance so each faces a non-conforming use on non-conforming structures so we're proposing to eliminate six non-conforming uses uh in order to upgrade the current G existing is that correct and let's take a look at if we can AE 27 which is and and and this is similar to what was uh submitted by Thiago at the last meeting but it's part of this package the first is a photo of existing conditions driving Southbound on Route 35 and that shows the existing gas sign correct that's correct there's an SUV coming towards the photo in the foreground you can see just over the the roof of that SUV the white uh billboard copy that's just above the rooftop um and in in the shadow of that apartment building and then to the right of that copy you'll see um Bridge Avenue gas which is a gas ID sign that and then the next page is based on the frame test and Thiago testified that yellow and um Red Pony can like thing hting on the right of that is is the actual frame that was there in order to establish the height to confirm that it was scale was accurate that shows where the propos US in the same location that's correct and again sign if the in the existing condition it's 22t high just go into a three by 5T that's correct and the next page and as was testified to the post copy can change instantaneously that's just another version of copy that might appear eight seconds later that's for and then the next page is from 500 ft traveling southbound and again you view the exting billboard and the gas sign right and then the next two pages superimposed what the post sign like that's correct okay now I'd ask the board to go to the page that is labeled 61 Bridge Avenue there were members of the public who had concerns with regard to what their property so this generated picture of what the view would be from 61 ver avue that's correct you can see I'm sorry sorry 61 Bridge Avenue is which property the um it's a cross Bridge Avenue probably the okay working thank you and you can see that um yellow and red striped placard that's P bucket truck we SE the bucket truck that's loot they they set that and and this was in the previous ones but it's not as as visible they set that at the height um relative height of the billboard and and then they they measure off of that in the photo to produce the actual billboard image so you see next to that that billboard the back of the billboard panel that's that's all visible on the back side you see there's one post there and then the next photo was 79 R Place and I believe that's more residential is that correct that's correct and we're looking across to east across of the Lous ice um property to where the sign is and interestingly Dan while it's shown us white in our photo because it's a blank screen for purposes of computer generation is this property within the view shed or the The View angle with the narrow technology it is not so it's not within the view line of of the sign it wouldn't be no would be able to be um perceived from this location so it would actually appear is just black um as opposed to that gray lter col so if you're daytime or nighttime so if you're standing at 79 recor pleas you would not see any light no lights from this sign would be visible based on our narrow view technology that's correct the furest West that the view proceeds from the proposed sign would be through the old Exon site that's to the to the west of just I know that there were some questions and concerns even if there was an epic failure of all types of um Electronics the narrow view technology is not some fancy description of electronics it's an actual physical structure that prevents The View so even if the lights went haywire and we had indicated that there fail safe and when that happens it goes dark anyway but the narrow view technology can't fail because it's a physical Implement on the side corre that's correct there's no um there's no adjust to that technology it has to do with the actual shape of the LED and also the LD screens that are on either side of so that element cannot fail it can't be adjusted it's anything and the next page is the view from 55 that's correct so now this is um we're moved further to the South and now looking behind the Lous ice um and you can see again the U the back of the sign you can put of that pler okay and then the next sheet is just an updated uh version of what we could replace the temporary burrow sign with with the type of messaging that they could have up for 120 Minutes during any given day uh based on the scale of what sign that's correct and then the last is an overlay from the original photo that we looked at which was 250 ft southbound and that shows all three signs two existing signs and our foros sign so we want to get an understanding as to the uh comparative height the size what's existing there today want that that's right so the two existing signs existing billboard and the Bridge Avenue gas sign are both outlined in blue um again it's very light on there so you can really see you don't it doesn't include the photo itself but you can see they outlined and blue and then overlapping each of those and and smaller than them is the proposed sign outline outline in light orange and has a gr texture to the inside of it so you really get it a good feel for how the proposed sign compares to a lesser to the sizes of exis yeah and and also one element which I don't know what mentioned the gas sign is coming down similar to the change of the proposed billboard the gas on there and we did testify to that as part of the original on I'm sorry that again you did tesy I'm sorry there was testimony from tho and it's shown on our plans that if this billboard is approved not only will the existing billboard come down but the gas sign comes down as well got it I got for you I've seen a couple of these digital Billboards and they're typically on a straight highway this is on a very difficult curve where people are making a twoo l Lanes they can sharp turn up you know on Riverside you know nobody considers that an issue um Mr Mass before you answer it I just want to say that Dan didn't study this from a traffic safety perspective because as was testified at the original hearing by Mr antel and Thiago there is a state statute which regulates the safety of these signs and the Department transportation has the exclusive jurisdiction as to that safety element and I actually read into the record in February what those safety standards were and what they looked towards so it's actually the same way if you come here for an application on a state highway and you're asking is the entryway safe is it a left turn in safe and the is well the state is going to review it and they are the ones that made that determination they ultimately have the jurisdiction I think Ed is often glad when that happens because it gets put on somebody else not him um similar to that the state is the one before they issue the permit they look at all of those traffic safety issues the visibility issues and everything else you can't get the permit to do this unless the state Traffic Engineers indeed this to be safe do you have a memo or anything from the state that indicates everything that you just said we have the permit which we submitted into evidence right okay so the permit is is it on the link yes and does it indicate it it indicates with the statute and the statute goes through all of the safety requirements so yes anybody else have a question on board for thist Mr chairman I have one question um Mr Docker in brain test in the various images um you know one of my concerns has been the impact to the house that sits immediately behind the sign um and I know it's I think we discussed it a little bit last time I think the owner of that property was here last time as well um can use and I know because there's different angles of each shot that you're looking at so it's hard to really represent um what that view my concern was um given the hor Al location of the existing sign it really doesn't block the windows of that house from looking northward towards the bridge and River uh I know one of my initial fears was by sliding that sign is that now going to block you know the classic airl in open space if you will but it that's going to be an impact to that particular property can you speak to in looking at some of the photos and the crane test that you did uh recognizing that it's not an easy task because of those different angles um if you were to draw a horizontal line from the edge of the new sign and place that up against the house where would that line up in terms of if you look at it for instance there's two what appear to be Second Story Windows would that be the edge of the new sign as proposed would that line up largely with the peak of the house would cover part of that window or can you speak to about what that impact might be well first like to point out that that house is property immediately another 50 ft away recogniz so so there's not a direct line of site it's not as if there's a a single digit setback for both of us to the same property line like you often have with you know as you probably see here in town with older properties where you have homes that might only be 8 feet or 10 feet from each other in this case this house is 50t so there's not a straight line of sight that you you draw um at the height of 20 ft I would say it's probably in the ballpark of a s story window I didn't perform a measurement to that um but it's very similar in in height location as the existing sign with the removal of the gas sign I wouldn't think there' be any um additional impact or or negative impact uh a followup question to that I see that you're representing in the documentary evidence here um you chose 250 ft and 500 ft for the purpose of Photography uh uh generally you know from The Bridge direction looking South at what you'll see with the proposed sign and the existing sign I think we heard some testimony previously about the visible distance um colloquially as I was driving down here this evening um I was actually surprised because in the daytime I don't recall noticing the uh the billboard you know very far across the bridge coming here tonight I could actually see the billboard as lit um north of the gold lawyers building that sits right on the corner there so the visibility line was was much bigger than I previously had mentally thought that I thinko said that the 500 was the bridge so my my better question is I know I'm not the best judge because my eyesight is failing in my older age here um is there a definition of what is the accepted range of when someone would be able to utilize the image on that board is there any way to say no it varies depending on copy letter size that kind of thing yeah have a big picture versus small letter account there's a direct the roadway is aligned in a direct line with with this site from Middletown so you do have a Long View it you come down past the gold glass building the in proc River um and as you could probably attest as as I can my eyes I have my glasses on now my eyes cannot see that bu that dist C use on on the current Billard today and that's existing conditions that's ex and I think that theago had testified if there's a Nike Swoosh on it is the only in the full size of the billboard you might be able to discern that but you need to be closer and we did research and and there is no sweet spot so to speak because there variables with regard to weather with regard to ambient lighting and most importantly with regard to setb copy I lied I got another followup um are you aware of any locations in Mammoth or anywhere nearby that are currently utilizing this narrow view technology that you're referring to I am not particularly my understanding is there isn't one in New Jersey yet that has the same technology for you to go out and because it is brand new again this wasn't on our proposal 11 months ago but now it is so we don't have it yet in New Jersey that's my understanding from our outred but there is it does Exist Elsewhere and I could certainly give you a list of those um want to take a drive talking no I wasn't I wasn't proposing to join thank you okay any questions from the board for just witness you know I just have a couple questions the um you know that there's a proposed residential building that's was approved by the zoning across on every side yes so even with the narrow view technology how many of those residential units do you expect to be affected by the lights um I I don't have um location the building building I don't think the mic's picking you up I'm sorry but also and Kan Kan Mr Kano when you say affected by the lights I just want to be careful because the there's a difference between the lights being visible and being affected by meaning the people who live in that in that proposed apartment are going to be able to see the traffic light it's going to however it's not going to necessarily have an impact on them it's not going to join into their home so because I I don't know that because there was testimony that these are LED lights they're directed downwards they're not shining light out they're not going to have an effect meing it's not going to be light shining into them remember we had indicated at the last hearing we gave you the lighting I don't par Parabola Parabola that shows where the light would be at ground level so it's not going to reach them as far as how you typically can see light casting downward so there there's two types of Lights you know we talk about in separ there's one type of light really what we talk about with engineering and and that's the light that you see in a parking lot what you're really trying to ascertain is this light's being thrown to the ground to help people see the ground help people see each other at night for safety reasons so that's really the only way to quantify that kind of lighting now in this case we have lighting not meant to L the ground or l any other kind of element we have a light source that's here only meant to be seen so the same way you don't go and look at the lights here in the ceiling and determine how good they are by looking at them you look down here to see they're working the right desk um but in this case we're looking at a sign for the light to be subtle enough so that you can read the top um and that's why it has photo cells on it to diate it B so that it refle it gives you um a balance of the light that's being projected from the device with ambient light and then in the daytime you get a brighter light because your eyes are adjusted during the daytime you're not going to see that dim light the same as you would see it at night so in this case and and and I the way I like to think about it is that these LED signs at me to look like traditionally illuminated flat vinyl signs you want to we want the the public to see the sign the same way they would see the existing flat panel sign we just have the ability to change the copy and then let me let's put this way Neighbors on if and when that property gets built when it get actually they would be there would be no more people affected or Worse affected in proposed conditions than by the current sign to which they can look out the window in see right now I think it's a white white panel right they can see the white panel and the the up lighting that's reflecting off of those panels back into their eyes at night so it's not going to be a substantial difference or a negative impact from what would already be there for those same residents so Kan I just I say it right sorry okay um recogniz had there not been residential development right across the street there that we knew there we would not have been as willing to AG to limit the lighting because it really was facing the highway but because of that we're willing to comply with your orance so right now you have a lot of lighting in that area being a busy intersection the street lights and the traffic lights and our current non-conforming sign that is lit at night as as Ed indicated but we're proposing to shut that down at 11 o'clock so I think the people when they when that is built they'll have a better situ I know that Dan said it's it's not going to be it'll be the same as what's existing I think it's going to be better because there'll be no light to be seen from that location from 11: p.m. to 7 a.m. now you say it's going to be better that you're actually moving it over 17 feet right so it's actually going to be a little clearer it's going to be more in their line of view isn't it you're moving it over 17 feet closer again I have to look at where that location is you moving it west from the current location yeah yes it's facing it's facing that property less because they moved to the westc the brid well I'm looking at your at your sight line directly across from your uh from your finger there they building residential Tower right so and you're moving your sign to the left of the property aren't you no we're moving it to right here currently is right here so it's right across the street from it so we're actually moving it from Center of this property off towards the highway a little bit is that accurate that's accurate yeah I guess I don't agree with your interpretation I feel like you're moving it more into the view of the residents who are going to be living in that location so so our the sign currently is further east than we're proposed and the property you're um you're discussing is on the east side of s so we're can I ask to look at a20 and that's the billboard you hold I'm sorry can you hold it up I don't have and the location on the East actually moving the West closer to the highway so whereas where as you look North site the property you're concerned with is on our North right Northeast yes we're moving ins sign West you're moving in West and you're raising it five feet raising it five feet we're limiting the gas side we're moving and you're moving West 17 feet right so right now though is it isn't moving West is in the good direction to be away from be facing that property when I the angle right no that I get and and one other thing that I'd like to mention talk about the the panels affecting resent residences oral for resen even mentioning the other two locations that will be eliminated that are currently with this even so especially the four panels that are in future Avenue um and that sign particularly is elated so those sign panels are all visible tonight if you drive by from residences and those will talk about ours being eliminated 10 to 7 10 p.m. 11 sorry 11 p.m. to 7 A.M those signs will be eliminated Al together so they'll they'll never have that visibility day or night from the residences that are currently seen Mr chairman I I just want to say in support of what Paul's saying I think the difference here is we don't know where the building is going to be cited there what apartments or all the apartments facing south to look at this proposed sign but I think the whole idea of the technology of flipping the messages every seconds uh is what would be irritating to people lived in the building to look at it because would change and I think that'd be quite noticeable from whatever apartment's fac it Mr Havens I just say for the record you so the record's clear you you did a hand movement that indicates flashing and I just I don't know how to I don't know how to describe it for the record but yeah it's not going to flash right it's not it's not going to if you're looking at the window at a static sign that's there s it goes into the back R If the message changes every 8 seconds uh for years and there's different messages different colors different so that would be something people in that apartment building would notice for sure and but that's all okay do you have any photographs taken from the site of the poed residential Tower to where your Billboard's going to be what it looks like now what it looks like after you uh if you were to be granted okay any additional questions speak up I think it's an easy one um so my understanding is if approved you'll be taking down the existing gas sign correct yes it looks on the last picture like that's a little B higher than your 27 is is how how high is that one I can only tell you that from that perspective it appear higher I don't know the actual height of the GU okay but yes I would agree from that perspective it appear at least the same size is close thank you okay any further questions from the board or I open up questions to the public okay any questions for and there questions for the this witness from the public just taking breaks you got you need a break okay break you have a bottle I'm glad you said all need a break only listen to miss kmco for so long you know what I mean I got got Sharon Lee here Paul KAG here anna CR here Eugene Horwitz here chis Havens here okay we have a question from the public for this witness and what we're going to do after then is close the public portion for questions and uh probably move on from there so a microphone yes all right good evening uh sue happy New Year to you if you could just state your name and address for the record Street listen Victor uh Mr scone do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the exent provid will be the truth to the best your know you got yes thank you um it was very intriguing talking about conceding to take down other signs other times um you know people always say they're going to do something you guys put on the timeline like x amount of days after passes or XMR the new sign goes up that should come down because you know not you but promise yes we would agree to a condition with a timeline as to when it had to occur thank you okay okay so we close the public portion for questions for this witness and at this point we are going to adjourn the meeting uh because I think we we determin that it's GNA not going to be able to finish tonight so we're going to stop here and and Jennifer uh you've actually requested that we adj because we're not GNA finish your testimony the time in which the board must render a decision through the meeting following meeting not forbid there's a reason people meeting all right so um we are going to adjourn this shaa to what's the date April 4 April 4th 2024 uh at 6:30 p.m. without the need for any further public notice so all of you in the audience tonight please come back on August 4th and I'm sorry please come back on April 4th April 4th 2024 and please let your friends know if they left you're not going to get another certified letter from Jennifer crico's office so this is a we Mr chairman we'll have a motion to adjourn this uh with the applicants incent till April 4th 2024 someone can make that motion I'll make that motion to turn is based on the applicant request I'll second just all in favor any oppos okay thank you very much motion to adjourn Mo second all in favor I