##VIDEO ID:bsa2E2WrKwE## good evening Red banks on board of adjustment will come to order 17th day of October time is 6:30 roll call please Andor here Raymond Mass here Eileen Hogan here vanu here Sharon Lee here Vincent light here Paul KAG here Anna Cruz here Amanda duris not here Eugene Horwitz here Chris Havens here adequate notice of this meeting has been posted B Hall the B Clerk and mailed to the es part press times and the star latcher this meeting is being tape recorded and the event the applicant used the service of the Court reported to transcribe the tapes board requires a copy of the transcript we will break at about 800m for deliberation testimony heard this far the conference room on the first floor public is invited to attend however discussion between board members the public is not permitted at that time no new cases will be heard after 9:00 p.m by bank's owning Board of adjustment has maintained a policy cut off hour 9:30 p.m for its hearings any applicants not heard this evening will be carried over to the next scheduled meeting Pledge of Allegiance the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible liy and justice for all okay we ministrative matters to deal with uh meeting minutes from October 3rd approve I'll approve I'll second yes Rond R yes Hogan yes Beno yes Sharon Lee Yes Vincent light yes Paul Kagel yes and Anna Cruz yes okay we we have a resolution of approval for One Fisher Place Mr chairman good evening that was an approval from last month's meeting uh authorizing the construction of a detach garage and it was actually use variants because of the size of the garage the application was approved and the conditions included uh a d restriction that the garage not be utilized as living space the elimination of that half bathroom um confirmation that there' be no further expansion or intensification absent further approval of the board and confirmation about the um the lot coverage uh we want to make sure no lot coverage variance was granted so they need to submit proof that that lot coverage is in fact calculated correctly and and our other standard uh conditions also including that confirmation that the driveway setback complies if that's acceptable uh we can adopt that if that's the pleasure of the board anybody like to make a motion to approve a resolution I'll approve it second I'll second Rond M yesen Hogan yes van uro yes Sharon Lee Yes Vincent light yes Paul KAG yes an a Cruz yes okay we have a administrative Grant of design wer for 121 M Street Mr McKennon good evening Mr chairman members of the board if you recall at 121 mm there was an issue about parking in the front yard we came up with several options submitted to the board and my understanding that at this point uh a request for ass simple waiver as far as allowing the parking in the front yard would be acceptable to the board and I'd like to ask the board to to grant that waiver and again I think the request is uh that would be in Lee of the canopy and uh basically the request is to do it administratively and uh Mr mcken and I have talked about that and if and the board has talked about it so uh Mr chairman if that's the pleasure of the board you can um have a an approval granting that design waiver okay somebody like to make a motion to approve that I'll move that second a second anori yes Raymond Mass yes een Hogan yes vano yes Sharon Lee Yes Vincent L yes and Paul K yes and Mr chairman I would just in in BL of doing a resolution sha you can just presumably do a a letter memo to the file we'll just have it in there yes okay okay next up very much next up we have 160 Newman Springs Road okay Mr chairman as the applicant team comes forward we have a couple things to do uh procedurally first up is there anyone here who had any questions or comments regarding the sufficiency of the uh Jersey Central Power and Light Company notice they received all right don't see any uh the board secretary and I reviewed the notice and found everything to be in order so would be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to to proceed tonight and what we'll do is we will Mark into the record what we as a board have before us so we're going to Mark as see uh A1 is the Red Bank plan uh zoning board application package A2 is the project narrative and let's see uh A3 is the preliminary and final site plans prepared by Boswell engineering and is dated July 11th 2024 last revised September 30th 2024 consisting of 11 sheets A4 is the uh boundary and topographic survey prepared by langing engineering and that's dated April 8th 2024 A5 is the zoning denial letter dated June 10th 2024 and A6 is the disclosure of ownership form A7 is the supplemental submission uh prepared by Ben nadell the applicants attorney and that's dated October 2nd 2024 and A8 we're going to Mark as the tnm associates review memorandum dated October 15 2024 um if we miss anything we can get that momentarily and what I'd like to do is uh swear in Jacqueline durman our board engineer and Shauna Banks our um director of Community Development ladies if you could just both raise your right hands do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any would be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide I do all right let the record reflect that both of our friends have been uh sworn and U so we will turn the application over to uh Ben nadell he's the applicant attorney good evening good evening thank you Mr kennnedy M you need this speak into the microphone really close bring it really close may I please jnl's photograph package so we'll mark that photograph package as A9 and do you know roughly how many photos are in there five okay and were they taken by your uh engineer your office or they were taken by First Energy stat okay and relatively recently so accurate depictions of what exists we'll mark this as A9 thank you everyone my name is Benjamin n I'm an attorney of the law here this evening on behalf of the applicant jcpnl the application this evening is for preliminary and final major site plan approval and de the property is lot 97 lot 31 it's presently improved with an existing electrical substation commonly referred to as the Red Bank substation the of application is to seek approval for an expansion of the existing substation along with certain new improvements to both the substation and to the property property is located in the Burrow's light industrial Li zoning District where public utilities are permitted as a conditional use subject to ordinance 4901 15D and ordinance 49011 proposed improvements to the substation include the installation of a new control enclosure a laminate ble Underground transmission work chain link security fencing a small transformer replacement and a new sliding access the LI zoning District permits Public Utilities as a conditional use as we hear this evening there are some conditions in the B's ordinance are not fully satisfied mostly due to the existing conditions at the site for that reason the applicant is seing use variant from the board this evening along with it site plan approval we have three Witnesses first testimon jcpnl substation engineer second Jeff Morris from Boswell engineering the project site plan engineer and finally Christine Kone our professional planner who will testify we are seeking this evening so with that unless there are any questions I'll go ahead and call our first witness Mr F all right good evening and if you could just uh state your name please uh a Fu and how you spell the first name a g u n g a u n g and last name fu fu okay um and if you could just raise your right hand good evening and welcome to the Red Banks zoning board do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best of knowledge to help you God I do and just for the record your business address uh 200 200 poville Pike writing Pennsylvania and you can put your right hand down we don't need get tired please speak speak right into the mic so we can hear you it's 2800 plus fi bike writing ba1 19605 and you are testifying tonight in Your Capacity as a licensed engineer yes thank you um yeah Mr nadell will will get his credentials on the record sure uh can you please give the board a quick background of your educational history and work history my name is akung Fu and I'm professional engineer licensed in Pennsylvania and I provided oversight for the substition designed on this project you have to be liced Jersey want to ask okay uh I graduated from drexell University in 2006 with a Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering uh I've been employed First Energy since 2019 April 2019 and my first position was as protection engineer for a bit over two years and then I moved to subsis design for almost three years prior to my employment with First Energy I worked as Consulting engineer fory Parson and working in various project uh as a Consulting engineer uh in power Network and power generation projects uh at the various stes State such as penssylvania New York Tennessee South Carolina Indiana and California great thank you look thank you Mr f are you licensed in New Jersey as well I'm not at the is that an issue we uh we do have uh Mr Morris here from Boswell engineering who's a New Jersey licensed civil engineer who prepared the site plan uh First Energy has Engineers all over the country who uh design and create the substation so Mr Food Ro tonight is an overview of the substation we have Mr Boswell who created the site plan for tonight's heing okay thank you and Mr chairman I had the pleasure of serving as a alternate Council for the planning board in a meeting last month and what the uh planning board chairman said is that you have to act like a rockar tonight in terms of these microphones so you have to be speaking right into it so otherwise uh it's not going to be heard it's not going to be picked up so that's uh we got to be a rockar not that can you please provide the board with an overview of the property and well as of the existing substation uh I'd like to show you thean we'll mark that into the record A10 and that's just uh I'm assuming that's an aerial photograph cor right uh the sub property in this is the existing Red Bank substation in this screen area um it's owned by about 2.8 acre martial by JNL and there are three various volage level in the substation which is transmission line at 230 KV uh sub transmission at 34.5 KV and distribution 4,000 volt circuits located in this property and and this substation hold barious equipment required to safely operate and protect the electrical system this existing this the existing substation expands from here sorry yeah it's it's from here here all the way here all the way up to the Mohawk lane and then parallel to the train station to the train track so thank you can you please provide with a general overview of the project for example what exactly is Jason pnl proposing to add to the substation U you see the whole thing here but this is what um the overview of the project is um of all we proposing to add 34.5 KV lines coming from Atlantic substation in cold NE and also 34.5 kV line that coming from bord substation in Middle Town so this is where the location of the underground and a new control enclosure is also so it's needed since existing controlled closer has reached maximum capacity to accommodate a new relay panels the two new the two new 34.5 K mes and this control enclosure is set on P's foundations and access to the building will be through uh at Great metal staircase uh along along with the new control enclosure we'll also will install a new fenes the new fan uh the existing Fence located on the uh west side and East side this will be removed and replaced with the new fence the existing fence that is currently uh on the south side here will be moved and expanded near the the southern side of the property line of gcp andl so also the new two breaker circuit breakers will be installed uh over here and right there this is the one that connected to 34.5 kV line to bord substation and this is the one breaker that connected to uh Atlantic substation thank thank you Mr uh and why are these improvements being made to the substation what is the purpose of these improvements well the first of all uh to improve safe and reliable service to current customer as well as the the new customer jcpnl respon proposes to add additional 34 5 KV lines from Red Bank substation to jcpnl Atlantic substation and bort substation the Atlantic substation is located at CeX and uh the bort substation is in the Middle Town uh the new 34.5 KV lines will require additional two relay panels to be installed and the current control enclosure has has reached its maximum capacity and no longer has space to install this new this these new relay panels This is where the existing um control enclosure as a result jcpnl proposes to install new enclosure which right here which will have sufficient space to house these new relay panel so basically what JCP and are proposing is no different that if we if you have a house you know with additional appliances and you need a power more power to your home so you it's the same process like what we have right now when you get a permit and you know you will hire electrician to run a new additional incoming power and new panel to your house and you know also if you want to upgrade uh your appliances that you have for 50 years for example and you know in addition to keeping up with the new technology you would have more reliable source and if s and even saver appliances or equipment serve your needs thank thank you and just the specific type of benefits that will be provided after the improvements are installed the additional circuits and new relay panels uh this will increase the reliability and reduce outages among cbml customers and the new relays are faster accurate and more reliable than old relays currently install at the Red Bank Sub Station do you know the approximate number number of customers served by the Red Bank substation it's approximately 4,000 customer which incl residential uh business Commercial and Industrial does it only serve Red Bank residents or does it serve residents outside of Red Bank it serves both Red Bank uh Red Bank customers residents and also outside of Red Banks residents such as next Tinton Falls Eden town middl toown tribury thank you so just Switching gears um want to talk about some of the uh engineering aspects uh can you give the board an overview about any type of traffic impacts that might result from the installation of these improvements um the Red Bank substation has two entrances uh one is under the new Springs Road which is during the normal operation and the other one is on the Mohawk Lane entrance so the Mohawk plan is hardly used you know unless there is a project or Improvement on the Mohawk Bank on the substation on the Mohawk bank and the members uh one or two a month during the normal operation or non construction will be seen entering and leaving the substation on various days and they typically gr work drucks or work vents uh in addition to the crew there Al there will be some occasional delivery trucks and other vehicles to support the various construction activities these may include dump trucks and flat de vehicles falling into some required equipment at the completion of of the project there will be no more utility traffic entering or leaving the sub station than what you presently see any trash or recycling pick up for the substation uh during the construction contractor will order uh a dumpster and will clean up the construction side uh for any soil removal trash and recycling the dumpster will be pick up by the waste company once it gets filled up once construction is completed and substation is in normal operation there will be no dress and recycling pickup the subsis is considered a m location thank you and how about loading and deliverables to the site um the new control enclosure manufacturer uh will utilize approximately 100 fet long truck like that to deliver a control enclosure to the righted bank side station and the entrance will be through the Newman Springs Road and this will be the largest truck thank you and uh any grading or drainage issues with the Improvement or expansion um there will be no increase in imperious surfaces because the controlling enclosure is elevated and the existing expansion area is St and we're not changing grading elevation and service area thank you and uh my final question for Mr F uh just timeline for construction uh for jcpnl uh that will be approximately August 2025 to November 2020 I'm sorry that was what August 2025 it to be completed until approximately November 2025 so that'll conclude our direct testimony for Mr f um are there any safety concerns with adding all this I know that substations had fires from time to time and some other issues or any additional adding this to uh the only additional uh in this projects is we installing the new relay panels which is is uh in terms of Technology you know it has more advanced technology than what the uh uh existing whe we have right now it will be able to communicate directly to the control room so if there should be any any any thought on the line This relay will be able to tr faster accurate that the existing relays any questions from the board yeah I a question about capacity you mentioned it serves 4,000 customers currently is that right approximately okay with the increased capacity how much how many customers would it served and for how long would that suffice is this like the increased capacity would be good for two years five years 10 years we don't know this will be in the long term mrit because you know we adding a new line and this is also not just only to serve for the existing customer but also for the future customers so we provided uh you know just only replacing the L but also be adding capacity for the future customers do you have a sense of how many customers the capacity increased capacity would result in I don't have that data at the moment and if if it were not approved you're at capacity what happens with new customers are they served out of a different substation or what what would happen uh our power uh electrical grid is interconnected with the other substation so you know between between the Red Bank and for example atantic and and the B there will be sufficient enough power to provide whatever the customer needs thank you you know I just have a couple questions too V you want to go go ahead um is there a um is there any um change in the noise coming from that area now with the new equipment I don't believe there's any any changes because uh we we're not adding we're not adding a new equipment other than the power line that coming and then we upgrade a couple of equipment the new U to the new equipment which has better safety and the noise uh okay to the old so the new Transformer will be quieter than the old Transformer yeah this this is not a big Transformer it's I would call you know it's a baby Transformer which is replacing the existing U transport okay and then also um is there an environmental impact um to that area it's Mohonk Pond is adjacent to the property so what if anything is uh would impact the pond and the life uh you know the ecosystem of the pond yeah there's no impact on the on the pond yeah and how do we know that was there a study done or something or is there a is that just uh it's uh you know the underground installation you know which is the new cable and then replacing the Transformer um there's nothing associated with uh with polluting the Mohawk prod because everything is you know in the Transformer the small transformer everything is in okay so Zero Effect on okay I have a question uh you're upgrading the fencing so visually will it be changed G age wise will it be changed length and height wise will it be changed uh from what the neighbors see from what the community is exposed to uh for our standard we have a 7 feet high of the fence link uh that will be located here and then we have uh one foot of the par wire is for the security purpose and and also we installing and sliding dat also CH what what exists there now uh it's it's also a chaining fence it's um yeah like razor wire or I mean how aggressive is the wiring going to be on top of the fence uh it's it's the bar wire just to prevent people from jumping into the sub station it's just for the security but physically is it going to be a is the fencing the chain link going to be a heavier gauge than the existing one uh I don't believe there's any change on the uh it's it's nine gauge from what I understand for our standard so there is I don't I don't believe there's any changes in terms of the size of the gauge and the thing are going to be Gates that can slide by correct correct uh no it's just only one gate but it will spr side side on the Newman spring side on the Newman Spring Road side correct thank you I have a question uh you mentioned that the project one of the benefits will increase reliability would you go as far as to say or to characterize these changes as being able to decrease the potential for power outages in the Red Bank area absolutely that is correct because because of the uh uh the modering more Advan of Technology of relay and also uh we have a couple of project that that is outside of Red Bank that we're installing uh new substation basically like on the H qu and then we increase the uh the capacity of this Sub Station such that we will be able to serve more capacity of the power to the customer okay thank you any any additional questions from the board chairman could I just ask one I I read in and I don't know if this question is for you or your uh one of your next Witnesses but you referenced the laminant pole can you just just so that the board is clear where that pole is going to be and you can talk about the height of it uh this is will be the Riser F the Riser pole that is coming from the 34.5 kV line from outside here and then from here then it will drop uh through the underground installation and what's the height of it I engine I read if that's I read I just um Mr nadell I read that it has a in in one of the stations or one of the documents has a height of 50 feet does that sound right sir I I believe that that's going to be the same high as the existing uh transmission um pole which is somewhere located here we can we can look at site plans and before the end of the evening figure that out and then just in terms of uh is there any change to the lighting situation uh the only lighting that we provided is is from the control enclosure which is that light fixture will be install uh on top of the uh uh the entrance the door entrance the control to the new control so no material change to the lighting scheme and then just for the record just that we have it uh I think Mr the chairman asked you about um health and and things like that is there anything with the new technology that there's any uh test results that show health issues or adverse health concerns that we have to worry about uh so far I don't see or I don't hear anything related to how issue with the new relay panels because we're no longer using the As fastes for the Rel thank you any questions from the public for this witness okay close public portion next WT move on to your next witness so we will call Jeff Morris from engineering thank you all right good evening M Morris if you could just state your name and business address please sure it's Jeffrey Morris Boswell engineering 330 Philips Avenue South a good evening and welcome do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best know to help you God yes I do and you're testifying tonight in Your Capacity as licensed uh tonight it'll be an engineer possibly surveyor but mostly engineer thank you credential still yeah while Mr Morris is telling you about his educational background and work history I'm gonna pass out and exhibit that I should have out what do we have to1 oh A1 and what is A1 uh A1 going to be uh the Red Bank substation landscape design plan okay uh I have a BS in civil engineering from Leigh University I've been uh employed by Boswell engineering for 45 years 20 of which I've been the head of the site civil Department I'm licensed as a professional engineer professional land surveyor and professional planner in the state of New Jersey I've testified in front of over 200 boards throughout uh several in Monmouth County how ocean port alen Hurst and uh inter great thank you review the application and you're familiar with the property the zoning ordinance uh you've been involved with uh the preparation of tonight's cor yes that's correct um and the review letter that we received from tnm dated October 15 2022 yes I have um and you see this letter um there was a comment about possible landscaping for the sub station that is correct do we need to mark that it's already been marked did we just uh mark it as I was passing them out that's okay we Mark got it provide the board overview of uh Landscaping plan that was prepared for tonight's hearing sure this is the uh easterly portion of the uh the lot uh it's basically the only portion of the lot that do have substation on it it's between on the corner of Mohawk and pearl uh it includes primarily a grass surface with many of the feeder 345k and distribution lines coming out of it go across and Mr Borris uh can you please provide the board with an overview of um the proposed Landscaping U not just the location but also the reasons for why the location for landscaping was chosen I understand that there's uh some unique circumstances that involve substations when it comes to installing certain improvements yes um one of the problems is when you're coming into a substation with the overhead lines they they drop as they enter the substation lower so the lines across this area are all very low uh so we found the key places we were asked by the uhm and by the planner to landscape some portion of lot we found that the corner of Pearl and Mohawk was ideal for some very very little Landscaping uh and that's right through here and it's primarily what we're going to be planting fairly tightly is uh the zelas right on the corner and Virginia s Spire uh framing them on either side we would have liked to run it down further but that is a truck that is an entrance that trucks have to access for to service the lines that are entering the substation and uh another comment in the review letter um about Landscaping behind the park benches during our investigation we discovered that there's actually Green Acre protected lands behind the park benches yes uh yellow line is our property line uh we can't provide anything under this power line that's coming through here but actually we with the burrow on bur property and and Green Acres and somebody would have to get the permission from Green Acres to add some Landscaping behind the park bench on the burough property and during your preparation of the Landscaping plan um were you um attending meetings and discussions with First Energy First Energy and Jason p&l engineers and staff to try and accommodate As Much landscaping on the site as possible while also balancing all of the security related issues and safety issues that come about when it's time to put improvements on this area of the substation yes we did it's always it's always a challenge uh to to get through the safety issues with Landscaping because unfortunately with substations landscaping and substations don't mix very well so that's we we we're always on a push and pull with them trying to get as much Landscaping as we possibly can on one of these Lots but we had additionally submitted the application um there was no Landscaping proposed um but after your meetings with first energies engineers and staff you were able to determine that this Landscaping provides safe and adequate access to the site in case God forbid there was ever an emergency in this area yeah safe aate access and it's it's low enough that it doesn't require maintenance and trimming uh continual maintenance and trimming and it provides access to the power lines that are entering and exiting the site thank you that will conclude our direct testimony for Mr Morris okay any questions from the board I have a question not necessarily for him but I noticed on the exhibit you just gave us on the right hand side there's a diagram that actually shows I guess the power line that's going to go from Belford through Red Bank down to the Atlantic substation part of Earl and the question is is this an existing line or is this a new line that's being run it might be a question question for the previous that that that is a new line so this is completely new line that this this is as as Mr F said this is the aid in the redundancy and the Reliance of the system okay so it is a new line being run from bford all the way through Red Bank to IR okay thank you that's clear any questions on the board any question how tall is that Landscaping initially I'm just trying to it comes might not be effective it come it comes in in three gallon buckets so it's basically two feet high it will grow as alas will grow however much you let them grow but it's it's it's two to three foot high it's it's it's a not to INF it's any sight distances and B it has to stay below type of landcap so can I just make a comment to the board I know we made that suggestion um and you could decide obviously if you want do accept the the plan or not personally I don't think it'll make it'll hide anything or buffer anything um from the substation the substation is large and and the plantings are low um so it might there might be no fix for that you know our intent was to put it closer to the substation but he explained that can't because of the power lines um when you look at the site it's basically the the area that he's showing is a a grassy area with with utility poles and I don't my personal opinion I don't know if a couple of bushes are really going to hide this big Power Station so it's up to you if you think it it's warranted or not we just made a suggestion I think something's better than nothing so yeah you know yeah I was there tonight and definitely would look better with something and they'll grow well believe it or not it does draw your away from the sub station a little bit I mean this this thing is big I can't hide it yeah that corner so and the proximity to the parking lot for the Park yeah you know you'll see all this from the parking sorry you'll see all this from the parking lot to the count basy Park JP didn't want to show up tonight with you know an answer that says we can't do anything it took a lot of time and effort for us to have the engineers who involved safety and design aspects to come up with something we could do and we felt that it was um an appropriate plan given the circumstances yard really okay any more questions for this witness from the board any questions from the public for this witness okay thank you m thank you Mr Morris we'll go ahead and call our Final witness Christine Kone here all right good evening Miss Kone if you could just state your name and business address certainly uh good evening it's Christine cfone c f o NE business address soon to be we closed in August 52 place in Red Bank New Jersey so we are moving there in the process of moving our offices in should be signed to go up hopefully next week so awesome um do you swear that the information you're about to provide will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you God yes and you're testifying tonight in Your Capacity as a licensed professional planner correct I've been testifying as such for 28 years in the state of New Jersey I've been qualified before over 450 planning and zoning boards and here in the bar on many many occasions nice to be here this evening um this is obviously a existing developed property in the industrial Zone where public utilities are a conditionally permitted use because we violate one if not two of the conditional use standards we are here seeking a variance for unmet conditional use standards so unlike some other Dev variances where you hear particular suitability and positive criteria on a D3 variance for unmet conditional use standards are burden is to reconcile that absent compliance with those standards this Still Remains an appropriate location for this use so will tell you that we violate section 49121 e which regulates only one principal building being allowed on the property we have there's one existing it's about 700 square feet and the one that was proposed and showed to you earlier um by both Mr Fu and um our landscape architect indicates that we are building a second building that's about 1,600 square feet the site is over two acres so I think we can certainly support the tional building also that existing that building is going over an existing um Stone area so we're not adding any impervious coverage this just something that um obviously when you're adding a 1600 square building square foot building you say okay how are you not adding in impious coverage and that is because as again was explained by the engineer the building is somewhat elevated and it's going on a stone area um the other conditional use standard um that we have asked for for Reef from is 49121 d which talks about sufficient Landscaping including uh shrubs trees and Lawn area being provided so we intended to comply and sent to the ordinance I don't disagree with your engineer that it's not we're certainly not going to block out the view right and as planners we know that that's not really the intent of screening anyway you're not going to obliterate the build the building or the view even if we had a building in this location the eyone allows a height of 50 feet for a building so the purpose of landscaping is to soften and filter a you so while you're certainly not going to be able to screen the existing conditions on the subject property or the proposed conditions completely from view the Landscaping that we're proposing at least um I agree with chair it's better than nothing right it can create some color and some interest on that corner so we're attempting to meet those that section of the ordinance um this is an inherently beneficial use Public Utilities certainly promote the general welfare so also when you look at the Red Bank master plan which was just examined in 2023 there are many goals and objectives in that that are Advanced by this application specifically on page 15 it talks about Red Bank being prepared reading from the master plan it states Red Bank is fortunate to have been spared from the worst impacts of recent natural disasters such as Hurricane Sandy and its geography makes it less vulnerable to sea level rise in many of its neighbors it goes on to talk about as r as a large bow Community Red Bank must also plan for the efficient and effective use of its most limited resource land into the provision of high quality public facilities and services so certainly having our utilities and minimizing impacts on outages is important that Master Plan goes on on page 67 resiliency red bag seeds to maintain and enhance Community resilience in terms of its ability to withstand adapt and quickly recover from natural disasters and other emergency events and then there's a section on utilities on page 69 that reads the electric utility that serves Red Bank is Jersey Central Power and L while telephone landlines cables cable and other customary services are also available in Barrow resiliency considerations for this infrastructure includes that electric service lines and other services such as telephone and cable are vulnerable to tree fall during hurricanes and it goes on to talk about being able to provide resiliency so some of the testimony that you heard earlier T was that this will improve prove the safe and reliable def uh delivery of service to this community and to the community that surrounds it so statutorily I think we certainly need our burden of proof I see no reason or no substantial detriment to the public good or the negative criteria rather I think that this is an opportunity to upgrade an existing station and to implement some of those goals from the 2023 master plan that talk spe specifically about providing public infrastructure and um resilient resilient public facilities in the community so I think we meet our statutory burden of proof and I think we certainly need the intents of the ordinance nothing further undir any questions for Mone any questions from the public for this okay close that public portion Mr any additional Witnesses or that will conclude our direct testimony thank you any comments by the board you know Mr chairman can I just I'm sorry uh so Shauna and uh I'm sorry Shauna and Jackie uh and I had um extensive conversations with Mr nadell up to and Miss Kone up to late this afternoon up until about 5 o' so there's just one um issue we have to point out could you could you rais that or discuss the board with the issue and how we can attempt to address it sure so uh in tnn's review letter uh from October 15th uh which was two days ago um it was noted on our survey that we initially had thought was an error um that on Mohawk Avenue let meone there's a discrepancy on Mohawk Avenue um of a 10 foot I'm going to call it a right away for now um right now um J know was under the impression it was on their property uh it appears that this 10 foot area might actually be part of Mohawk Avenue part of the public Street um so it's about 10 feet with only two days to trying to investigate this before tonight's hearing we were not able to find the correct answer uh So based on my conversations with the burrow Mr Kennedy jcpnl is agreed as a condition of tonight's approval to further investigate this with the burrow as a condition of the approval so that the burrow can review its records jcpnl can review its records um and we've agreed to have a condition tonight where the burrow will have to sign off in some way whether the burrow says to jcpnl we would like you to dedicate that 10 feet to the burrow so that we have Mohawk Lane that 10 foot area that is now officially owned uh by the burrow the burrow might come back and say you know what we decide if we don't want it forget it um just leave it as is we're really seeing it more it's like a clean up maybe 50 years ago this was supposed to happen and it didn't and it's getting picked up now because a new survey has been done for this property um so that was um really the best way we felt to trying to address it because it's uh it's not so much I don't want to say a zoning board issue but it really involves the borrow borrow Council if they're going to uh accept property from from a private party so Mr chairman if I just add a couple things and again it's all very new and very hot off the presses and and in all our conversations uh that we had uh today we uh was very clear to say obviously I cannot speak for the board you know it's got to be left up to the board but basically uh Jackie as I understand it so the issue was raised on the on the survey that was submitted there showed that land may have been just a roughly a 10 foot area dedicated to the burrow but it wasn't necessarily shown on our tax maps so there was a question that whether whether or not it was supposed to be whether it was and there was a question as to also whether Bur of the B of Red Bank has an easement over that 10 foot area um and again it's it's not 10 feet running through the middle of the project it's 10 feet on on the the close to the roadway yeah may I explore there so everybody has this see where the yellow line is Oh it's a middle street it's 10 feet into the street it's and there's another 30 feet past that where cars travel but you see how there's a um a truck right there yeah so I when you drive there it looks like the RightWay it looks it's part of the street but when you look at the plan it's unclear whether this 10 foot portion was dedicated vacated to the burrow where whether was even supposed to be or whether it was supposed to be but right now trucks and cars travel on it as if it was part of the road part of so he's right it's a clean up it needs to be cleaned up and and rectified um but that's that's that it's per it's a perfect picture to show you what is going on there's Pavement in the 10- foot area and there's trucks on it and cars on it that are traveling so what I you know was was thinking and again it's totally subject to what you all want as a board and and what the applicant agrees to but um it's an old situation and there probably uh as Mr nadell said it's probably not going to be investigated today it might be some title searches it might be searches of easement records and it definitely needs to be reviewed both by jcpl and and the buau need need to look at it to see what the arrangement was was it ever memorialized uh should the arrangement be tightened up uh sometimes 50 years ago people weren't as technical as they are today and they might not have the hold Harless Provisions or the insurance Provisions or things like that that we would want today so it is a good opportunity to look at it and um so it's probably going to be uh need to be looked at and uh look at old records and engage a title company maybe for a search and look at old tax maps and I think Shauna has already spoken um give sea a big thumbs up because we ended our conversation at five o'clock and between then and now she's already spoken with the burough attorney and she's already sent the memo to the clerk for a clerk looking for easement records as I've said before is on her game but there there's there's a lot we need to know is there an existing easement is it in writing is it verbal is is what uh proposed going to interfere with that easement so there's a couple of options we could one take the option of well we don't care about it forget about it and and let's not worry about it but we never take that option and uh the next would be hey have the applicant figure it out and and come back to us and then we'll Vote or a third option could be because of some potential timings sensitivity issues uh because of the time it's going to take to resolve it and because a lot of this Revol involves the burrow not not not the zoning board and and because it doesn't necessarily uh impact direct operations per se if you were going to approve it and I don't know if you're approving or not approving but if you were inclined to approve it one potential condition could be something like give the applicant 90 days or agreed upon extension to work at it with the burrow and let the burrow come back and say you know the burre owns it and we're okay with this or the burrow doesn't want to own it and take those arrangements or the burough say hey we have an easement and the buau says we have an easement we don't want this to happen or hey we need that the burrow say we need this easement agreement to be modified and memorialized and and and better uh better prepared and so we could as a condition have them work it out to the satisfaction of the burrow um and then just advise the burrow I mean advise the zoning board within 90 days in writing as to the response my only um thing we would have a couple of caveats number one uh if the application was approved with that condition we I think we'd have to have a pretty tight condition in there that says if the applicant can't work it out with the burrow then they have to come back to us meaning for for new approval meaning to avoid any doubt our if it's approved if if the application is approved our approval would be of no force and effect if they can't work it out with with the burough to make sure that they're all on board to be you know liberally construed and the second caveat would be that the applicant would basically release defend and hold harmless the burough Red Bank the Red Bank zoning board and our board members and agents and representatives and professionals and officers and officials again to be liberally construed just so that I wouldn't want not that Mr madell nadell would would do this but I wouldn't want to be a position where he said well why' you give us the approval if we had to do this so that would be I'm assuming Mr nadell the option that you would want to uh you would prefer the option of of the hey take 90 days to work it out with the burrow and knowing that if you can't work it out then you're gonna have to come back here that's correct I I might ask if it's possible for a little bit more than 90 days because I don't I don't know what we're getting into here title we need I just picked out it could be anyway Mr chair that would be something for the board to think about is is that uh you know again the time frame I you know certainly at six months would be fine or any agreed upon extension but it's just that's an element that Shauna and Jackie and I and again we we're going to bring it up in Workshop but we thought you know what just for for transparency purposes just bring it up here so and it literally just came up today and and and uh so anyway that's see see what the board thinks I mean uh Jackie did i y i i I gave a poor engineer's description of that but did it sort of make sense absolutely okay Mr kedy what would you suggest we do as we you all of your legal expertise if it's acceptable to the board I think the the option that we just talked about with the caveat that we're all being held harmless and that if they don't get the bur approval they don't have our our Municipal our zoning board approval goes away I think that that protects us all any any objections to that web board questions Mr Ken I I don't have any objection to that but just looking at this project I don't really see how that easement affects the conditional variances that we need to approve exactly and you know one of the things that I talked to Jackie about saying hey is this interfering with sidewalks or and you know and things like that and and it didn't appear to have any flash button items that that would be problematic but anyway that that's uh and Shauna I think you talked to the burough attorney and he agreed that not not agreed to anything but he agreed that they would look into it and and you know I could send a letter and all all that uh to put it so anyway that that's just something we wanted to clearly need board um you know discussion and guidance on but and then what what kind of time frame were you thinking of it down between my my last comment you know two minutes ago I realized that if this goes the way it might be heading where the borrow would like to accept the 10 feet it's going to take two or three months for an ordinance resolution adoption with the council that stuff takes time especially around the holiday season I'm gonna ask can you give us nine months just in case this turns into something where we really have to investigate it again the whole purpose here is for us to clean it up and I just want to make sure we have enough time to get that done I I have no problem with that and clearly they're going to do it as quickly as they can right okay and I think we should say whatever the time frame nine months or agreed upon extension because things happen thank you okay would someone like to make a I'm sorry com oh actually public comment on this application is there any comment from the public Samsung so I did not realize that the pulling of construction permits so that some of these improvements can get started since this is is is not directly related to the improvements that we discussed today that are on the southern side of the property could the condition include something along the lines of that the app could move forward with construction while we're still working on this issue with the burrow um perhaps you know final co could be the condition I'm hoping to avoid a scenario where jcpnl is ready to go start these improvements and we're still working on this during this 9mon period or maybe it takes even longer I'm I'm hoping not to have the two hold up each other since they're they're really separate issues and and the construction is not going to be in the right way so my only question to that is that portion that sticks the cable that goes into the right of way that we're concerned about is it possible if the burrow says no um and there is an Aiden and the Barrow says no can you guys operate without um by pushing the cable back the issue here because I think this is the issue here is that it extends into the easement so if the bur says no and there is an actual easement into this 10 foot area what's your substitution for that because this is still the issue here I'm not sure I'm fully understanding is so because it's in the 10 foot area where this supposed EAS have a new witness and our approval is contingent upon the council saying that this is okay to happen if the E does actually exist can you guys operate by pushing it back or it has to be out by this L it has it has to be out there because that this is the pole po is right there so has to drop off the pole and go underground so what happens if no and there is an actual when you say are you saying be researching well the the eement Remain the the utility easement will control yeah we yeah I didn't so the the utilities right of way will will remain regardless of the app so if the if the right way is deed to the burrow the utilities eement survives it doesn't get exp okay and Mr chairman uh what I would also suggest is between now and the adoption of the resolution uh Mr nadell and I can work on refining that language to include it but we would also include a provision that anything they do would be at their own risk because if the Burrows says no so that but I think we can it's a technical issue and we can work that out with language if that's acceptable to the board so before we ask for an approval or a denial can you give us all of the information that we would be making this approval of denial and sure you mean the other conditions oh I'm sorry no I I think my only concern was we allow them to start working are we waving any rights is the burrow waving their right now if we're g to come and say no you got you can't do that then JCP and I imagine say well we've already relied on your representation and we've done it well I think that's an excellent point and that's why we would make it abundantly clear and we would probably put this three four maybe five times in our document that there we are Notting any rights and they are doing at their own risk and and I think also Paul you make a very good point I think the first line um if we were all in our Law School classrooms I think Mr nadell would say hey let me figure this out before I come back and do this but they have some timing sensitive issues so I think Mr nadell just for the record uh Mr cagno uh a board member properly wants to make sure that any um approval that we give is is appropriately uh worded to know that we encourage you to get the approval first before you do anything and if you do it you do it at your own risk and you're holding the burrow and the zoning board harmless and you understand that we are not waving any R and I think based on our conversations today I think you understood that yes the applicant understands too that you this issue needs to be resolved it's not something that is just going to go away our you know jcp's real estate department needs to work at this they need to work with the burrow they need to review their records um again it's it's a discrepancy that needs to be clean um so other if the board is inclined or other standard conditions would be compliance with the promises commitments and representations a team made uh compliance with the board engineer review memorandum uh except as otherwise noted compliance with any affordable housing contribution directives and payments what whatever they they are uh obtaining any necessary outside approvals and our uh standard caveat to is if as a result of those outside approvals the application or the requested relief materially changes they need to come back uh would be compliance with BPU regulations obviously I'm not going to repeat it again but those the conditions with the burough of Red Bank um approving the easement or RightWay or dedication issues um let's see um we're going to have uh with the Landscaping we always have perpetually maintaining and replacing planting that Landscaping as necessary and we're going to have uh just that just so I know it to we have a height of that pole just so I can put it in there 50 50 feet and then we also Mr chairman usually um one of the new conditions we started was having a before final uh permits or cosos or whatever is issued that the applicants professional basically gives a certification that the structure was built in accordance with the approved plans in accordance with the testimony and in accordance with the uh resolution and uh Jackie real quick I un uh I worked on another utility station so just in another town but just is there anything that we need to worry about the fence being grounded or is that like a construction code that's a Construction Construction code requirement and do we need any particular signs that says warning or danger or is that a construction code um I believe that's a building requirement um just the plans show 55 feet I just I thought it was 50 five it is it's 55 just 55t okay the top of the the the the pole itself and is there any um requirement I know Mr chairman you had talked about some buyers and things like that is there any obligation that they need to work with the uh fire department or police department with a a Knox Box or any just a cour um we we just require them to get sign off from the fire okay and then a couple of things that came up tonight we'll be real brief um we talked about um uh Jackie I know other was do we need any type of construction staging plan or anything that they have to work with the police department or is that just part of our construction maintenance I operations I I think that's part of a precon meeting okay talk about your staging I think they do have enough space to Stage got it and we have um again the work with the burrow and Green Acres uh to hopefully put additional Landscaping behind that park bench we just have a good faith obligation there and let's see um oh I have a note here that if it's okay with Mr medell and if it's okay with Christine Kone if she would give me her outline that would help me with my resolution just confidentially and uh um we have the the nine month for the dealing with the Red Bank R agreed upon extension and all that information about at their own risk and the hold harmless and no waiver of Rights so Mr chairman I'm sorry I talked a little bit more than I wanted to but U Ben for the record are you okay with those conditions yes yes we did did I miss that we anybody like to make a motion to approve or deny this application well from my perspective the benefits of this project especially the increase in reliability of the power supply to the citizens of Red Bank greatly outweigh the minor variances that we need to provide this project so I with that I would move it I'll second and Tori uh yes Rond Mass yes een Hogan yes vanu yes Sharon Lee Yes Vincent light yes Paul keg yes okay thank you then we will be in touch thank you okay next up we have 196 Broad Street Mr chair um I live within 200 feet of this project so I need okay thank you sure okay so before I forget let me do our um introductions so first up we're going to uh the applicant here is 196 broad LLC and based upon my review of the documents the principles are Carl forado Craig farter and Frank martarella hearing those names does that create any uh conflicts or questions about conflicts or comments about conflicts seeing none okay and we will swear in uh for the second and final time tonight uh Jacqueline durman our board engineer and Shauna Ebanks our director of Community Development ladies do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the exent provider any will be the truth to best your knowledge to help you guide I do okay let the record reflect both Witnesses have been sworn and what we'll do is we'll mark into the record what we as a board have have before us so A1 is going to be the application package and A2 is going to be the minor subdivision slate plan prepared by uh design architecture dated December 1st 2023 revised June 20th 2024 consisting of Three Sheets A3 is going to be the survey prepared by Morgan engineering and surveying dated September 11th uh 2023 and as Jack durman indicates it's incorporated into the minor subdivision plan referenced above um and A4 is going to be the variance response letter prepared by Frank Marella and of think design architecture dated July 2nd 2024 A5 is the response to the first engineering review letter prepared by Edward J McKenna dated October 10th 2024 and A6 is the T&M Associates review letter dated October 15 2024 so Mr chairman if I could just uh take a little bit of time here to speak about a a procedural Journey that uh brings the applicant here and uh to regular attendees of planning board meetings Andor zoning board meetings and the regular people who routinely watch and monitor the online agendas um and to our friends uh around Waverly Place who may have received two different notices on the application and for the benefit of the members of the board and public I'd like to explain the procedural history so this application was initially processed as a straight up subdivision application and as we're where subdivision applications traditionally come to the planning board unless there's a use a d variant uh connected to that subdivision so it was deemed to be a planning board matter and uh the attorney Mr McKenna noticed for the planning board meeting and uh but then right before the planning board meeting our um insightful and astute engineer said hey wait a minute uh I got some questions something something somethings up here and so the The Quirk of this not The Quirk but the new unique situation was um there's going to be an access driveway in a portion of the off street parking for the Mixed commercial residential use building on the one lot um on the other lot and the two lots they're mixed Lots one's a residential Zone and anyway so it's going to be um I guess the technical term some of the proposed improvements um on the residential lot are going to be considered accessory uses to the principal business use on the other lot so that technically required a use or a d variance um and again remember subdivisions come to us on the zoning board if there is a use variance book so why is it important it's important because as you know jurisdiction jurisdiction jurisdiction jurisdiction matters the planning board can't approve or deny an application that should rightfully before us likewise we cannot approve or deny an application which should rightly be before the planning board and uh the first point of every resolution olution that we ever adopt first finding and even in tonight's resolution was we have the Zoning Board of jurisdiction to act so that's why it's important so uh what happened about uh two or three weeks ago Shauna and Jacqueline and uh Greg from her office myself had a big Zoom discussion on this and we sort of came up with the idea that it was a a USD variance so we called Mr McKenna and we said Hey listen if you think we're wrong or if you have reasons to for to think about something else we would be fine and um for the record Mr McKenna as he always is was a gentleman and said okay I will Ren notice and and we'll take care of it and I thank him for that and I thank his client for that because that was you know definitely sort of a curveball um some other attorneys would have yelled and screamed and and said some not nice words and uh by the way that would not have changed anything but we always appreciate the gentleman nature so Mr McKenna on behalf of the client re noticed because of the the jurisdiction matter so people who showed up for the planning board meeting um heard that basically it was dismissed from the planning board and transferred over here so hopefully that clears up some of the the mystery and the confusion about this Nuance procedural matter but anyway that I just wanted to state that for the record and I hope I didn't steal Mr McKenna's Thunder but just speaking of the notice is there anyone here who had any questions or comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice they received for tonight's hearing okay we don't see yes the notice for tonight yes no notices we never okay why don't you just come up so we can hear you and just state your name your name is Mike Harper and address okay and you're saying that you did not receive a notice I'm sorry oh microphone yeah yes so yes we did not receive a new notice okay and and just hold on one second and we're going to uh so while alen here is looking there's sort of a quirk in the statutory requirements for for the notice um all that is technically required is that the applicant has to mail it to the correct address in a timely fashion and sometimes and I know this firsthand and it's not a good answer but sometimes there are some issues with the post office um so alen do you have a green and white slip I okay or Mr McKenna will look for it too I'm tracking and okay and I'm sorry so we're looking for okay know you got the first one and get a second correct all right so 15 werly place I have a slip here to Harper comma Raymond and Pender Megan 15 Waverly Place Fred bank07701 it was mailed September 30th um so Mr McKenna is that that's I'm assuming this is the document that we're talking about yes that that's the letter Mr Harper that's your address 15 that is my address so anyway by law all that has to happen is that you have to send it to the right place and I hate when these things happen so I'm I'm very happy that you're here tonight and at least have time because it would have been worse if if you didn't know and there might be some other people I get it who who didn't know but legally the notice is sufficient if he sent it to the right place and he advertised it in in time so I appreciate it and I really am in all seriousness glad that you're here to be able to voice your concerns or ask any you know voice their objections or ask any questions all right thank you were there any other questions about the the notice okay so thank you Mr Harper So based upon that um uh the board secretary and I did review the notice and found it sufficient so it' be my again humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to to proceed tonight um so against that backdrop we should um welcome Mr McKenna and and turn it over to him um begin thank you Mr chairman members of the board and uh Mr keny I want to thank you for providing the board the explanation of how the history of this application um because what appeared to start out as very as a very simple two lot subdivision we are now we are where we are today um however um tnm uh and rightfully so um wrote us a very detailed letter N September 26 uh C off sent to us and because of the the date we did not have adequate time to amend our plans so what I did was on October 10th I prepared a very detailed letter and sent it to a tnm to address all the concerns raised in your letter and I I actually got a call from a member of your office the other day and went it with that person also and they indicated they were satisfied with the letter and its explanation but what I would like to do is perhaps to save time um is go through your letter if you if you and um because I think we have addressed everything in the letter and even have been able to add a few other things to make things even better um so I have Mr Marella who principal here tonight but I think we might save a lot of time if I could run through your letter with the board that would be exceptional Mr chair would you want to present your case first and then go through the letter um well I go through the letter well yeah perhaps if everyone has their plans essentially there are there's existing structur at 196 Broad Street that is a small dental office and one um the the apartment has one resident and the dental office has a dentist and two employees the office is only open it's closed three fully three days a week it operates part-time two to three days a week and it only operates fulltime a day to two days days a week um that's that's the dental office there are two lots here that have join each other so doctrine of merger applies also because the two lots because they were acquired in in such a manner the tax assessor off and in that process that's why we're asking for a sub normally we wouldn't even be asking for a subdivision the only thing we'd be asking for is the ability to allow the parking of two parking spaces on the residential line um but because we have that uh in order to meet the parking needs and comply with the ordinance rather than ask for a parking variance what we did was we we agreed to Grant an easement since it's the same over you granting an easement to ourselves so to speak to allow two parking spaces toist on in a small portion of the residential line and hence the the D1 variant and I do have Mr O'Neal tonight to testify as to the positive and negative criteria but it is a fully conforming residential lot uh so we don't need variances basically I to address those and the only real variance is that come into play here are all pre-existing based upon the existing commercial building commercial Residential Building meaning the dental location and those are things that were essentially noticed and in the Life their pre-existing uh variances because of the location of the structure and it was built many years ago so essentially what would happen would be you be creating a residential lot on Waverly Place which to and I I have to credit our client uh when he looked at the opportunities that he had as far as utilizing that property could have expanded the commercial use but we got into a discussion and he said you know something W is a very nice residential street I like it very much I'd much prefer to add another single family WI and let the commercial use sit on on its own and uh he's had people approach him number of people over years and especially recently I guess with increased demand for housing particular in red about creating a residential lot and building building either help him building it or us allowing someone else to build a house on that residential lot so that would keep Waverly residential from the corner of maple all the way down to uh this property mean uh the dental office but the dental office is not the property on the corner it is literally next door to the property on the corner that's a Wallie so you would so it's consistency on broadream and it would be consistency on W so it would be according to the client and and I respectfully submit to the board it would could continue the use on each block and it show some sensitivity towards uh the area to the resident side W so that's that's how we got to where we are today so it would be subdividing the lot on wav the entrance on wav the byway entrance on wav the existing entrance to the commercial property is also on W landlord they come through away so we would be giving an easement to the deal office to get over property get to the parking line the parking spaces rather for the commercial use that makes sense and you need any more information I don't it'ss any more information but that's essentially I know you all have the uh so it would be that and um we we we submit that rather than expanding the commercial use and utilizing that property for commercial use that it's much better utilized as as residential keeping with the the neighborhood um if if the board would like I mean I can call Mr Morella up you're welcome to ask him any questions but I wanted to provide you with some history as far as how we got to where we are and why we're before you this evening and um I I'll welcome any questions that I can answer on the board or like to ask I mean they're fairly simple it's the creation of s uh lot uh it's in it's in the RB Zone and the commercial property would remain in their zone so so there's no really uh variances uses except for the fact of the two parking spaces um we were concerned a little bit with some Landscaping uh and Jackie if you don't mind me saying we actually have have arranged to get some additional Landscaping um both on the on the easterly side of the property along the adjoining lot the uh the corner lot we can we've actually come up with way of rising some plantings along there and on the uh Westerly side of the property we now can plantings the Lo there too so we will have buffers they won't necessarily be um compliant with the five foot requirement on the west side it would only be 3 feet because we want to give enough space there for cars to put in the driveway other than that I think we made substantial improvements thankfully with your suggestions to um would anybody on the board have any other questions or concerns I just have a question just to clarify the way I'm looking at it on here the house you have the house and then there looks like this is on Waverly and then there's the um driveway to get into the commercial parking on one side of the house and then on the other side there's a driveway for the two spaces that you were talking about actually do I have that wrong no it's okay but when you pull in the driveway to get to the commercial uh parking so to speak which is at the rear of the wav property I'll call it right um there are there's there would be an easement for two parking spaces to be allowed to park there during the work day and um that would be for the professional office and there's also an apartment there also so they have one resident that lives in a small apartment in the commercial building um but there and then there's a separate driveway for the future home so the state to be built on way yeah it looks like the house is surround yeah dri two driveways okay okay anyone else the um first the first driveway for access to the parking on the commercial it does go from the front of the lot to the to the back of the lot right okay I wasn't clear with the plan and then the other driveway also goes from the from Waverly to the end of the lot okay and then you just to the end of the Waverly lot as far as they want to go in other words you don't have to if someone were to build a house there they don't have to take that driveway and bring it all the way to the back they could bring it up halfway if they wanted to because we're removing the shed that's in the back there and we're going to put plantings actually even in that area behind uh you'll see almost like a bare space from the uh from where the commercial proper we can actually run them down all the way on the what I'll call the norly side of property are the are the um parking spaces for the commercial actually on the commercial lot on the on the in other words closer to the building that's on Broad oh yes yeah okay so the Turning how how would one make a turn when they get to the end when they get to those spots actually they can back they can back right out and get out through the driveway which is really what they do now so they pull in straight ahead and then to get out they got to go in reverse um well actually in some spaces they'll be able to to just back out and and and exit there's one spot that in um in Miss durman's uh letter she refers to the fact that somebody has to do a k turn for one spot that's the apartment and that's what they've been doing all along spot is the closest to the commercial building so that person's been doing it for years yeah I mean but do we see an issue with the patients of the dentist currently or any other business that may go in there that's pretty pretty much what they're doing now so I I I don't think there's any problem and forgive me for saying this it but this is this is practice that's been in existence for a long time it's not an intense practice and it can't be because they don't have the the uh square footage uh if you know what I mean I one dentist with two yeah that's it yeah I mean I guess until the business changes hands and someone else put something in there it could become a thriving business well it could but you don't have a lot of space yeah you know I mean so it's not like you're gonna have 10 patients going there anyone time such as it's just physically not I'm just not familiar with any other parking configuration where someone has to pull into the front of a lot drive to the back of the lot and in order to get out put it in reverse and look over your shoulder and back no no oh no I'm sorry you don't have to do that at all there's enough room where you can back your car up turn and then turn and get out yeah yes absolutely I'm sorry if I gave you yeah so did you want to swear um Mr Marella sure all right good evening and welcome to Red Bank zoning board if you could just uh state your name please and and address right Monella the third home address or business address uh home address would be great and Branch Court M New Jersey okay and uh can you spell your last name m a r t a r e l l all right uh good evening if you just raise your right hand do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best of your knowledge to help you guide yes all right have a seat and my understanding is that you are one of the members of 196 broad LLC and 196 broad LLC is the owner correct correct and roughly how long has The Entity owned the property probably right around a year thank you thank you Mr um Mr you heard all the representations I made to the board this evening concerning this particular property and how it's been operated and mcken I don't think the mic is I'm sorry not being the Rockstar just speak just talk loud um you heard the representations I made to the board the deliberations that you had in coming to this particular form of application with your sensitivity to werly and the commercial property and that's how we got to this point where this application has been made correct correct and um as the representations that I made to the board concerning how it operates right now fact I forgot to mention even trash removal uh as I understand if the dental office has can that they put out for the bur pickup is that correct correct and any medical waste that they have is picked up by a service that comes by when needed correct um there a question raised in uh in M durman's letter about any drainage problems on the site as I understand it you have been advised and you you and your professional capacity by the way let me let you're you're licensed architect in state New Jersey right you and your office prepared the site plan and subdivision plan that yes and how long you've been a professional uh AR registered architect in the state of New Jersey since 2010 and um once again you and I sat down and went through the tnm letter and prepared the response that we mailed to tnm on October the 10th yes we did that together yes any questions any any questions from the public for Mr okay see so um does everyone on the board have a letter of uh letter of tnm of September 26 now I didn't mark that one I marked in the one for October 15 should I Mark that it's basically the same yeah the the October the September 26th letter is everything that's not shown in bold in the October 15th letter okay so if I might um in our response um there were a number of plan revisions that were requested but due to timing issues we were not able to get those and revised in time to submit them and have them filed here at the office at least 10 days prior to tonight's hearing so what we did was we prepared response to uh Miss and tnm directing our comments to very specific uh points of their letter and um they correcly indicated that the three uh variant is for uh that are referred to on page four of their letter uh paragraph 1.2 they're all pre-existing non-conforming um experiences do the location of the office building um we were asked to uh recalculate the UN unoccupied office space which has been done and we will be submitting that um also as to lot coverage and we be hope that and then we have allsite um conditions in paragraph two is page five um and there are requests in 2.1 2.2 uh 2.3 um and 3.4 all those but they will be on the amended plans so everything that TNN is asked for we can provide uh five and six are things that we naturally uh would comply with on uh page six um there is no parking variance that is necessary here um so know that is an issue that not before the board um I addressed earlier the I'm sorry could I just ask Jackie I remember com me back nine required eight eight proposed but is that at parking variance not necessary it is not because of the EV requirements so they can take because they're providing space um that reduces their parking requirements thank you I would like to ask with with respective parking um item 3.3 where we talk about the Ada accessible uh van accessible space yes do that um how in your plan how are you going to do that without reducing parking spaces I was able to I was able to shift uh some of the parking spaces slightly and thereby also being able to increase the parking spot for the van to the required 11 foot and then the 5 foot access adjacent to it adjacent to so so I'm not reducing any of the parking just able to shift them slightly because I already had the parking spot there it was just a little narrow that's all it's right so you right now you have um an 8 foot parking spot shown on the plan ada8 spot and you're going to add another three feet right so are you going to take it from the right or the left like how are you doing that uh I believe it was uh mostly well hold on let we get the right orientation mostly from the west side of that spot so do wouldn't that shift spaces one through six three feet to the left correct so let me as a broader picture you're right I took parking spaces one through six I I shifted them to the left a little bit but I also took the easement as well and the 5 foot planting buffer on the west side of the easement shifted all of that towards the to the to the West slightly that enabled me to enlarge the actual parking space number seven which is the Ada parking space from 8 to 11 the 5 foot AIO was already there right the the the added benefit if you will of that is that I was also able to now and screening um along the property line on the did I say East people the West I shifted the the the easement and everything to the to the and the pocket spaces to the West I said that right correct okay I'm sorry but doesn't that change that line the the the actual does it change anything on the plan in terms of your proposed lot lines by shifting it no it doesn't change the lot lines L lines are already established and have been oh I'm sorry correct correct right but what about the driveway easement does that shift correct so the driveway easement along with the five foot planting buffer that was already shown on the west side of the easement I did shift that to the West a little bit and then if you so continue with the math that left a 3ot space on the east side of the easement which is where I'm now able to provide a planting buffer to also help provide conformance with other comments that you had raised okay I I haven't seen this you what I I haven't seen this plan this is all just new no this very off um if I go back to um the engineering letter um when I'm on 3.5 and trash recyclables uh we addressed um hours of operation we addressed already um hpac is not going to be changed in any way any future hbac unit that would be accompany the uh home to be built there that would be located at the time they apply for the building permits okay Mr Mar just advis me that all the HVAC HVAC on the property has already been replaced obtain from the bur um obviously 3.8 we're going to uh exist in driveway werly will be reconstructed according to ordinance standards and the parking area in that is in disrepair uh the plans will be revised to clearly depict all the areas of payment that are being remove that close to your request um we did not Ed I'm sorry can we go back to 3.4a um same page page seven so there's a requirement um to provide at least three feet between the property line and a driveway and right now your proposed driveway is right up against the property line are you then also with this new plan Shifting the depressed curve which can I ask which depressed Curve Your referring to the one that provides access to the easement or the one that provides access to the uh two residential parking spaces for the okay so um on the west side of the proposed new building is a 12 foot side yard setback or 12T setback from the property line to the building uh I have a 9 foot parking pet two 9 foot wide parking pads which leaves three feet for a planting buffer which uh will be added in the updated drawer ings that you receive on the east side of the easement as I made a reference to earlier by Shifting the easement over three feet I was able to achieve the planting buffer there as well performance and I was on site today there's um a lot of bamboo right now I guess that acts as a buffer I think that's bamboo yeah it's like a thick is that all coming down we've uh we've been battling the bamboo since day one we've removed it from the west north from the north side of the property we continue to maintain and remove that on the east side of the property uh to the adjacent residents we haven't uh started to remove it but under the proposed construction it would be removed okay okay um we did not provide a traffic report because there's no change in the use and we don't know we can't control what single family home would be built there that's all that we're asked for subdivision that would allow a single family home but uh am of traffic that would be generated from a single family home is is insignificant so we did not believe that it would be necessary to supply traffic report um as far as the question of uh delivery vehicles there are none the dental office doesn't use any property we would imagine will not require any to come on to the property uh there there are no garbage trucks and um obviously any fire trucks would wouldn't fire follow whatever directions the fire officials want us to as far as access fire TRS as far as page seven paragraph five ja we will get to all the elevation spots rather and uh we've had no drainage issues on the property we do not any anticipate any change in that P we are going to provide you with very detailed landscape that will show you all the additional plantings I think and very happy with we managed to add quite a bit as far as Landscaping um yeah no drainage issues property um landscaping again we're going to submit a detailed plan um there's no change in the lighting plan that we now have um as far as Appliance with bur ordinance with shade trees uh contribution to the tree funds that if we can't plant the adum street trees will make the contribution um we will also review any recommendations of the shade tree committee um and by the way the Landscaping plan will have um the spacing on the Strip that you refer to in paragraph 6.5 and um we do now we do have plantings uh as referred to in paragraph 6.6 we just discussed the bamboo and as far as um revising the plans to include illumin illumination values the values within the parking area that will also be on on the amended plan and we anticipate getting these plans in very quickly um we will of course provide the me B description to your office and to Mr Kennedy um and work on that um we asked for a waiver on prep on submitting architectural plans and elevations because we don't know if we're going to be the ones constructing the house or there have been a number of inquiries concerning the lot and we don't want to be speaking for someone and show the board the house with floor plans and Architectural detail if it's not the house that's going to be built I think that's that would not be the right way represented on page nine there's a reference to repairs to an existing staircase on down got the permits and fix the staircase it's done and um we did testify already on 7.4 we provided the testimony concerning the hours of operation and the employees uh in the dent nothing real old soil County um and of course red every I didn't mean to try to over simplify this but I just think it's I a very helpful level and uh we spent a lot of time trying to address alls what I'm understanding you subdivide this lot you could could you have you'd have you could have one owner on one lot one owner on another lot yeah in other words we can sell off the sub lot but that comes with an easement correct no matter what that carries with an easement for that be a recorded easement that Mr will riew and will Rie everybody El sign okay all right any other question any other questions from the board any questions from the public come on all right so uh couple things good evening Mr White if you could just state your name and address good evening Vincent light 20 place okay uh do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any will be the truth the best of your knowledge so I hope you got it I do okay and can I just before you uh uh ask I want to just uh take a couple things for the board so obviously um Vince is uh one of our longtime and excellent board members so he recused himself from this application and uh so there's always a question can he participate in the hearing and I don't officially know whether he's supporting and objecting or just asking questions but that's sort of irrelevant but we'll get back to that in a minute so the law says that uh any any of us uh on the board we don't forfeit our property rights just because uh you all are good enough to volunteer your time on the board now sometimes it says hey it would be easier or better or more preferred if you have your questions or comments or objections or support uh made through an attorney or a spouse or an architect but sometimes that's not always practical and as a practical matter we knew it would be coming from from Mr light anyway so and the other thing is we don't have the ability to transfer cases if there's a conflict Red Bank in Red Bank municipal court they'll sometimes have a little silver handle it um as a zoning board we can't transfer this to the planning board because remember my jurisdiction speech before and we can't transfer it to little silver planning board so we have to deal with it so the only thing that I think we have to recognize and we have to um be mindful and we always do this is is whether Mr light is going to speak against the application speak for the application or speak just ask questions I think we have to be abundantly clear that um even though he's a member of the board and um and a friend of people on the board that we can't treat his questions or his comments or his support or his objections any uh give it any more weight or any less weight than we do for every other member of the public so uh Mr McKenna do you generally agree with that proposition I'm sorry yes okay and and so just for the for the record for board members are we all okay we can we can accept um our our you know the the comments okay this is questions not comments right now so he's asking questions particularly making a comment right there got it so against that welcome to the Red Bank zoning board thank you um I do have a bunch of questions based on the letter but in some of your testimony you said that you made reference to changes that you've made but haven't been able to buy is there a way that we can actually see all of these changes that you've already made to the plan to The Proposal he's not finished he he has done a tremendous amount of work in a short period of time but it's not in final form yet there a few things that we even asked tonight will probably impact what what may come about but it has been something that Marella I know I've been on the phone everybody a couple weeks now and uh he's working laboriously to try to come up with plans so he's going to have them uh very shortly and submit them and we tried to do if you don't mind what we tried to do was to amend the plans in in a manner so that we would satisfy all all of the requirements of the TMM letter and I would say making all these changes um do you think it's appropriate for the board to make a decision on this matter without seeing the actual proposal and the details of the proposal I I've I've done this many times before and um especially when we go into the amount of detail that we did with with TN with tm's letter but we Tred tried to do was any concern that tnm had we believe we have satisfied them uh or perhaps even exceeded what they requested so we will be submitting the detailed landscape plan everything that we represented see we will uh be provided and and V if you want say this but we you directly copy of plans as i' love to be able to provide input into the plan as they come up with changes actually if you want what we can do is um informally we could set up a meeting and give us any in if you feel comfortable doing it that would I would feel comfortable doing that the only problem is the matter is before the board tonight so putting the horse yeah the car um I I well I think that most of the changes I don't want to say cosmetic that what the application before the board tonight primarily is the subdivision and uh and the site plan and the site plan concerns that were raised We Believe will all be um address the amending plan so so when whenever we've had an application like this before um if we believe that we satisfied the requests of the board engineer or if board members had a particular item that they wanted to focus on and said would you change the plan and do this to it we would look at look at each other we address it sometimes we excuse ourselves from the room and go outside then we come back yes but we find it be acceptable to um our client um I'm also I'll be referring to the letter from TM dated October 15 and Vince just for the record that is A6 A6 um maybe it's been to me but most of it is similar to the September letter the only stuff that is different is the stuff that's in this letter and if there's a difference I'll let you know okay my first question was on the clarification of curb easement on the west side of the W so the current plan had the driveway right up against the lot the property lot and there was no buffer I believe I heard that has been amended and everything has shifted over 3et so does that mean the driveway is no longer 12et wide only9 ft wide yes if the driveway the driveway Drive was shown as 12T wide uh the P stalls were shown as 9 ft wide we shifted the 9 but parking spots over it to be directly adjacent to the building uh and also shift I'm sorry and also shift to the driveel and I I may have misspoken that I don't think the driveway was ever shown give me one second the driveway was never shown as as 12 feet wide it just wasn't I'm Ling this does it say does it say it says 12 oh then I I apologize I well it I think it's it's a 12T setback the property lines of the building very small it's 12T property lines the building yeah if you if you if you have the ability it might be too small but if you look at the uh at the front end of the driveway where it's closer to the curve it actually says 10 foot wide Max so given that you're you're putting in a double wide driveway on the east side why even have a driveway on the west side that adds more impervious to the plan when you can share that driveway and put provide parking in the back lad maybe where the garages so the garage is going to be demolished um and it's no longer going to be in existence the there there is an ordinance that requires two-way Drive aisles to be 24 feet wide so if I if I infringe upon the 24t wide driveway with two parking spaces it's no longer a 24t wi driveway not if you have parking spaces behind the uh okay so so to to me that okay uh if I put the parking spaces behind the house then the residents of the of the proposed house have no rear yard at all they would become parking spaces they have a car back two cars back there so I by Design that's to me not a good design I don't understand you're going to specify parking on the commercial side you're going to put a BS that you say that you can't designate parking behind the house for the build for the residents I'm not saying I can't I'm not I'm saying that it's not preferred I I physically can draw and show parking spaces behind the residents but then the residents of the one family home have no yard they have two parking spaces in their backyard so to me it's not it's not a favorable design can I can I interject something I I'm I'm getting confused too and with no plans in front of us so what you're dealing with I don't know how I could prove this I mean you need amend it said you were going to amend the plans well I'd suggest you amend them and bring them back to us so everybody's clear on exactly what are you doing but the change that he's the the the the question at hand is not a change I'm not changing anything the S plan that you see right now that you have in front of you chose two residential parking spaces for the proposed one one family residence on shift there no changes to those plans at all those plans are exactly what you're going to do no no that's not forgive me that's not what I'm saying he's asking he's making it sound as if we're going to provide two parking spaces behind the one family R that's not what I'm doing that's not what's proposed before the board it's not based on his questions it's based on the fact that all of a sudden plans that you had have changed and we typically as a board we don't approve anything without a set of plans I'll I'll let Ed answer I'm I'm not trying to speak to that I'm just trying to say that I'm not proposing parking spaces in the back of the one family home he asked if I could do it I said yes you understand that but it feels like we're sitting here listening to work product and a negotiation that should be taking place in a workshop or previews to the meeting not during the meeting she bring us a complete package to approve and but by the way had this not played out the way it play out understand and and the calendaring of trying to get back on the calendar to be before you um that was part of the reason why we presented this this way um and this is no reflection on anybody but we thought we were going to be before the planning board a month ago and then we got a phone call in the middle of the night and told uh change of plans we think you got to go to the zoning board we were happy to accomodate we did we said can we get the first possible date um we got it and we got tnn's letter which was very helpful we tried to ra run the race to the finish line and get the plan done in time we just couldn't do it that's why I chose to letter to tnf we understand exactly what you're saying I think our concern is we're in that is October 17th no more meetings in October there's I think either one or two meetings in November correct two two meetings me December 5th to the 19th yeah well um I have another application on the 5th that's that's going to be a long application but what we could do is if we put this on first and then we'll have all the plans done and'll give you a complete set again this not our desire I understand but you got to understand our point of view being on the board that typically we won't I mean I don't think I've ever approved anything without a set of Cl that's accurate um that's Me Maybe maybe the rest the board is comfortable with that I'm not I with you sometimes depending on what the nature of the changes are um I I would even say it before this board for example on uh um one on ja uh the condos over there um that we there were a number of conditions I remember Jackie four testified she said oh we're going to make that change we're GNA make that change we're going to make that change and even the board said well we want to oh no you know what I'm sorry that was not I take it back that was so uh if we get on for December 5 we're happy to other application that day GNA be a l one as long as we get put on first Visions they might I would hope the information we provided today you have the opportunity to see the revised plans before the meeting I don't think our testimony will be marketly different um o is going to testify on the planning aspect that's not complex on this application right so um you know if if if you think that would work and we could put that on first that would be great fine if I may make a suggestion to try to make it smoother on December 5th maybe invite some of the neighbors who have never seen the plan to see the plan before it's actually presented to and then you won't have confused Neighbors showing up that might make meting even longer just a suggestion yeah okay so uh couple things and I think that's an excellent idea so it sounds like we are going to um make a motion to carry this application to December 5th 2024 at 6:30 pm and Mr McKenna I'm assuming you're going to say to ask without any further notice yes but I I will note that um parent didn't get Mike and Jo a few peopleon really yeah post office yeah I mean I we it out we can't so what we're GNA do I mean we'll say without notice but uh Mr Harper and Friends pleas and Vince please let other people know um if if they're interested in in in the in the project and uh for the record uh Mr McKenna do you on behalf of your client consent to extend the time frame within which the board has to act yes okay thank you and what we'll do is I think again Mr light's suggestion is good Mr martarella if you feel the need you could reach out to to some of the um and just it would just eliminate some of but I I do think the information a lot of the information that was presented tonight was helpful so Mr chairman um we have a request to adjourn this hearing to February I'm sorry to December 5th 2024 6:30 p.m. uh without the need for any further uh public notice uh do we have a motion to that effect y make that motion I'll second all in favor good okay I promise we will have final plans for thank you thanks very much little housekeeping comment i' like to make for the board not to do with the application allw but is that is now the appropriate time to make the comment yeah um it was an interesting point I was thinking the same thing that you guys were thinking we've got these in plans quite frankly the jcpnl plan that we all just voted yes for was very similar right we come in and we've got these plans oh we got this 10 foot problem that runs a long way over the place but we're going to figure it out we want the approval I mean how do we avoid these uh applicants coming before us and we've got a half set full of plans and making all these changes I mean I personally am not comfortable approving just like Ray wasn't this because I don't have set of plans but JCP no is not too different we've got this he hey we're gonna figure it out we're gonna hire a title company hey but we want to start working first on it and everyone's like okay let's do it but I'd like to avoid that moving forward if we can so I don't know if it's if it's an administrative thing that we can catch before having people come down here and say look let's push this a month and get us to plan I don't happens the JCP and L1 is more because of infrastructure stuff that affects multiple towns that it's important that we move that based on the think conditions that we approved it under yeah I mean in terms of this one that just came before us you know could we have told this applicant hey let's push it out three weeks we want to need a full set of plant that was because he's for experts notice he's paid for his attorney to come down here and it's it's per to on the applicant yeah in my opinion know that in advance I think it's helpful more efficient I think you make a good point uh and I think the the answer is um to your point Mr chairman it's it's typically a matter of degree I'm sorry I have my back to the to the right side of the room it's a matter of degree something like hey if you could move the garbage dumpster from the right side or the east side to the west side or heyy if you could throw additional Landscaping in here those things I people can visualize and it's a matter of degree it sounded like there was some confusion as to what the plan for I got a little nervous when when Jackie said I haven't seen these revised plans so you know but yes we are we are always are sensitive to it because we are sensitive to the time and the aggravation and the cost of everybody and the the so I think you know we can just make a a you know a note to try to catch these things when we can some of them just happen and some of them have a what happens if we say we'd like to move the garbage we can't catch that administratively if you request someone move garbage right I think it's more it's got to be more Nuance than just a blanket yeah and six parking spaces or seven parking more but more Nuance so it can't be right and what we there are some boards just so you know and it's really a matter of what you all want there are some boards who say and again don't use this application but just in a General application we want to say move this garbage can add Landscaping here change this lighting d d some boards will say all right do that and then come back to us and let us see that other boards say let's if they're minor enough let's just approve it with the conditions because sometimes you don't feel like having the applicants come back with their Witnesses and their team sometimes you don't have the room on the agenda so it's a question of each and every instance and I think uh Mr chairman and Paul you hit on it a board should never approve an application if they're unsure and they they don't know what they're looking at I think that was the topic tonight so I think it it played out and I think Paul your point is hey if some instances are just very very very clear that it's going to be an issue we should try to streamline it and and get reveal that issue identify it earlier I think that that's a fair point yeah okay motion motion all in favor I