welcome to the economic development subcommittee meeting on May 13th we'll rise and salute the flag to the flag the United States of America and to the for it stands na indivisible with liberty and justice for all roll Club of the members counc greo SAA here here councel H here here councel McKenna here here Council sylvestri here here and chairman Haro here here corm is present there's one item on tonight's agenda and that is a preliminary discussion relative to uh Zoning for cannabis dispensaries wonderful I will call on the presenter of the motion councilor Sylvester thank you Mr chairman um so before us tonight and that's exactly what this is the preliminary conversations um I think it's now time we've had 15 years since the cannabis bill has been passed we've had the time to sit back and and work out all the fears you know all everything that people were worried about you know we've got to see the cannab Cannabis commission work from the state level on down and and work out all the Kinks and now I think it's time that our city takes advantage of of that benef benefit now there are few ways that we can do this um I think the the best and most efficient way is a route other cities have taken um and that's to go by the quota of liquor store licenses or or Package Store licenses that you have and then you break that down it's a percentage that would allow us to put roughly three point something dispensaries in the city of ruier where we already have one licensed we do have two other possible idea locations that we have counselors that are in agreement to put them in the awards if if we were to pass this um and we do have um Tom from Economic Development uh was was good enough to come here and and give us some some information as well as he was the na economic development in Fitchburg that really turned around and cultivated the can industry and is now one of their their biggest industries in fitzburg so um Tom if you have a few minutes hello name and address for the record please good evening councelor is Tom skroski 281 Broadway um happy to be here as a resource to help you all through this journey it sounds like uh through your opening comments here councilor we're well on our way to forging a path here um just for a little bit of background ground so my first week on the job in Fitchburg was when um the legislation locally for recreational Cannabis started to to make its way through the city council and the planning board there fast forward five years later we had um 13 grow facilities that were permitted eight re retail facilities that were permitted um and a lot of experience that I gathered over you know what went right what didn't Lessons Learned um but you know I think if I were to sum it up in a few different um themes for for things you all should think about um you you hit the nail on the head with the first is what what the quote would be so if you went by um the statutory kind of minimum of 20% of the package store licenses we'd have three facilities um you can raise that if you'd like in in fitzburg they raised it to 40% so they went from 4 to8 to be quite honest I thought that was Overkill then I think especially in today's Market that's probably would would saturate the market a bit too much but that's one consideration you should make what that number would be um obviously what areas you'd like to put this in um thinking of a few off the cuff the the GB districts um maybe certain elements of them but perhaps not all of them um the rc2 district and and the Ted districts are kind of the ones that come to mind um and whether or not you would want to just add this as a use on top of existing districts or create a new overlay um if you were to expand from 1 to three you might want to have it you know be a larger geographic area than it is allowed today um and then thinking about things like the intensity of the use and where you would site the use so in um fitzburg we had a uh 300 foot buffer for areas where children could potentially congregate whether it be schools or churches or or even residences and this was a buffer that could be waved by the permit granting Authority and often was to be honest if the applicant made a really good case as to why um how they were actively um preventing open marketing to Children right or how they were actively preventing um clear sort of clashes between the uses and basically in a word being a bit more discreet about it um and I think in the end we we felt like a waiver that could be worked through with adequate evidence seemed to be a really good way to not create a rule that was too rigid and say you can't have it anywhere but one that did set some guardrails that the permanent uh granting Authority could could allow um provided they did it the right way um and then thinking about things like you know Public Safety plans security plans uh things like that are pretty standard in the industry and I think you'll find if you're working with a strong applicant they've got all that stuff um lined up they've got a good security team often they are working in tandem with folks either in law enforcement or you know that that are now Contracting after uh decades in law enforcement that have really strong security plans together and if I could just say one thing ultimately am missst all that growth that we saw there in the industry um It On The Ground basically operated like any other store would um and I think there is a bit of Doom and Gloom in the beginning about what might happen in in this industry when when things opened up but I think as you've seen with some of our partners around the region it often operates much like any other retail facility so I think if you do it right if you put the right uh guard rails in place and you ask the right questions you'll get the right types of development that I think can fit in well with the city I'm happy to answer any other sort of questions about process or any any other ways I can provide support here thank you Tom Council has Tom thanks so much for being here um I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about your experience in Fitchburg and if Fitchburg had any Community impact fees um I think those were 3% of the grow sales is that is that a rule of thumb for a cannabis shop that opens up right so um there's I I don't want to say the numbers and and trip over myself this evening but there there's figures that are connected both to the manufacturing facilities and what you produce and the retail sales and I believe it is 3% um but I there is also the the impact fees that was one um challenge we faced and you may have seen it um in news throughout the Commonwealth is originally communities were kind of charging a flat rate um but then over time that led to Fraud and Abuse um in some communities I think uh Fall River might be the the worst example of that but um the CCC has then since that time work to make sure that you're kind of tying back um any sort of impact fees back to actual impacts on the community whether it's additional burdens on the police and fire or things of that nature but then above and beyond that there is that just overriding Revenue generator that you can get through that fee great thank you and in Pittburgh um was there a certain distance I know you spoke about churches and schools and things like that um was there a certain distance that you looked at when when um a cannabis shop opened up or a complex so 300 ft uh from any place where children could congregate so churches schools um things of that and Residences but it could be waves so one example we had um one that as the crow flew was 300 feet from a vocational school um but because of the parcel lines and the the frontage it was actually on a different Road and pretty well um kind of um hidden off from the school although they were 300 feet away you weren't driving past it to go to school every day it was it was a on a separate culdesac so it seemed reasonable to allow for that variance if I say variance but waiver um because of those conditions so I think it's good to have a rule of thumb that is not too rigid but a ows flexibility for the council to make those determinations at the end of the day great thank you councelor kandra thank you Mr chairman um through you to Mr scosi in Fitchburg you had I think you said you had eight retail locations my questions are what was the revenue like in Fitchburg and what was the the traffic like surrounding those areas was it did it inrease uh was it a hassle for the areas it was in for all the cars coming in and out um and was it financially a good move to open those dispensaries for Fitchburg so I'll take the second question first the the traffic um we had initially some really um well-thought traffic plans in place for that initial rush and you know having police details on hand and having um you know really rigid traffic control measures in place and you know at honestly for the first couple months it made sense this was back when these were the first shops to open in the Commonwealth and there really were lines all around um but that went away pretty quickly as more stores Pro proliferated and I don't think traffic's an issue there anymore so basically it's like if any other big business opened up it would be an initial boom and then it would slowly dissipate to to being Norm exactly um and then on the fiscal side I I didn't um I can't tell you the exact numbers but I can tell you it helped insulate us pretty well from a lot of other challenges uh other communities in the region faced and actually allowed us to do some of our more aggressive sort of planning and infrastructure work because we did have that additional um growth that was actually part of my my final question was what did did you allot that money specifically to certain you know certain areas of the city like infrastructure or you know mental health or anything like that so we there was never that kind of direct accounting towards here's where all that money is and here's how it's being distributed it just basically allowed for a rising tide to lift all boats so to speak in the municipal budget so in your opinion it would benefit Rivier to host three establishments I do believe so thank you very much councelor guino guino sa thank you I have um just a quick question in the state of Massachusetts isn't the law or the ordinance 500 ft from a school from the entrance of a school and what could be done we have to create a new ordinance to make it closer cuz I could I I know it's 500 ft so 300 was what we had used at that time and I think because it was not hard and fast rule um but it was one that could be waved um perhaps it it never crossed the Attorney General's desk I don't know what to tell you there but I think what we would ultimately do is create our own zoning ordinance so would set the parameters and model it um best we could off of those State uh laws and guidelines and then once these are built won't we have to hire more police honestly I'm not I don't want to speak on behalf of the chief of police but I in the Fitchburg example as I had indicated I think it It ultimately acted not differently from any other retail shop or a package store um and to councelor House's point if there is a a burden that can be found that's above and beyond um traditional retail we could identify that as an impact fee and essentially charge the uh retail operators for that I wouldn't anticipate it though um but again caveat being I'm not the chief of police so thank you councilor Mna thank you Mr chairman um to answer U the counselor's question these uh facilities are so uh heavily uh monitored that um really I mean it's like Fort Knox to get in you know and they have their own security um so if I think anything happens uh they do have their own security and it's they're heav monitored uh it's excuse me how do I know that I don't know anyways I'm not going to answer that question research thank you um but nine years ago I voted no uh for the facilities to come in and because rier and Lawrence were the only two cities that voted no uh 18 years ago or 15 years ago for recreational marijuana uh we got the the option of voting no uh but a lot has changed in nine years um you know I just I feel the governor just uh lessened uh the sentences of marijuana users um that were in jail uh so I think it's it's it's people are seeing the benefits of it from for medical uh for for everything so um you know my um my whole saying no has changed it really has I've seen the benefits of it for people that were sick I've seen the benefits of of it uh you know using marijuana or gummies or whatever you use uh for ailments um and uh you know I I do think there's not too there's not enough study when you're driving you know um but I do feel it's beneficial now uh after nine years so that's where I am thank you Council Sylvester thank you for the leing Mr chairman uh Tom uh well Mr chairman through you too Tom um the what do you see a benefit in in US creating a our own maybe cannabis subcommittee or cannabis commission that that adds entities of City councils development Economic Development uh License Commission um in in this way there's a there's a really strong committee that that comes up with the the way we want to bring this out and roll this out and also who we see come before us to make sure we're we're not bringing in um just anybody and we're bringing in someone that is is strong in the business also I'd like to see a social Equity license if possible in those three um if we could put that in so I I think these are all things that we could really sit down and talk to um as a group and really work out I'd be happy to participate in something like that and I think it would be good to have a you know a cross-curricular group of folks in different elements of of this work um working together on something like this and I think to your point of knowing the difference between the types of applicants I will say you know you'll know it when you see it if you put together a strong zoning ordinance and a strong set of requirements um the good ones become apparent when when they submit an application um and I know that sounds quite simple but but it generally turns out being that way I think the ones in this field that have done this work are quite sophisticated and I I do think at the same time you I would love the idea of carving out an equity license um to make sure that we are um making sure this industry is open up to everybody thank you coun MC thank you I just want to say one other thing that um you know now um you can get gummies and marijuana and THC or whatever um people deliver it you know so um say uh Happy Valley in Chelsea you know they can deliver it in rever so we're losing out we really are losing out on the benefits you know and the revenue uh so um that's all I wanted to say thank you great um yeah recognize name and address for the record Michelle Kelly Derby Road um I have to say I don't think that I would be a proponent or in support of this um but what I do think would be very very important is that if we were going to go in this direction I would like to see a lot of feedback from the community which would mean Community meetings and not just well you know a certain area is zoned for it so go ahead and put one in but to really get some feedback from the community in terms of how they feel about having this in their neighborhood that being said we do have dispensaries one which is barely over the Riviera line in in sagus we have that several I believe in Chelsea and Lynn so there are several around um and I would want to see strong evidence in terms of the revenue and exactly what kind of benefit it would bring to the city before signing on to something like this I know that there are medicinal purposes and things like that which councelor McKenna spoke to but I'm not quite sure if that's just CBD and also TLC or just the CBD um but I do think that um Community awareness and feedback on this issue is going to be key so I just want to say that thanks thank you hi name and address for the record Ed Terell 70 Soul Street revs uh just two two things I want to talk about I just want to dovetail what uh Council sylvestri said with the injustices that have happened with the War on Drugs I'd really like to see some recommendations of the Human Rights Commission about how to undo those injustices the other thing I'd like to bring up is that I think that the Board of Health has the right to ban cannabis from being sold in reer they are probably going to ban a generational ban on cigarettes so they also have that is just something to think about thank you thank you um well I'll say thank you Tom for presenting thank you um Council sylvestri for this very important ordinance um sorry permission to speak from the chair yeah sorry about that still get in the hang of this thing you know uh but uh thank you Council semester for for submitting this ordinance um and really appreciate sorry do you yeah yeah unless something else to motion to adjourn so move --------- good evening welcome to the May 1rth Committee of the whole subcommittee please rise to salute the flag IED flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all rooll Club the members councelor agenzio here here councelor jino here here councelor Gino SAA here here councelor H here here councel Haro is absent councelor Kelly here here councel McKenna here here councel noeli is absent councelor sylvestri here here Council zambuto here here and council president Cog Leandro here here Cor present there's one matter on this evening's agenda Tom O'Brien from hym will address the city council relative to the ongoing suff Downs development good evening sir name and address for the record please Thomas O'Brien 110 Sudbury Street Boston Massachusetts thank you very much um I know that uh some of the council is going to have questions about the project I didn't know if you had anything that you wanted to share with us before we got into the the Q&A portion sure I could start if that's okay with you just for a couple minutes to give an update is that all right um so um we're proud to be here um again this evening to kind of appear before you and um and give you an update on suff downs I'm happy to do this you know anytime um as you folks know uh happy to give you an update at any time but I think really what I wanted to kind of start with is um uh you know we we acquired the site in 2017 and in the time since then uh we have together with a group of investors uh raised and spent 5 over $550 million of capital on the site so over a half a billion dollars on the site uh the breakdown basically on that is the the First new building that we're we're delivering on the site uh is now being completed uh even as we speak so the first units will be delivering uh in the month of June uh that building was about a $250 million uh building uh and then another $300 million um through a combination of site acquisition together with infrastructure investment so we've invested uh millions and millions of dollars in infrastructure and in the site uh and you'll see evidence of that when we have the uh the um uh ribbon cutting for the new building uh all of you would be invited to this we haven't set the date on that yet but all of you will be invited to that but you'll see uh roads water sewer Parks all those things have have gone into it uh in addition to that we've also uh invested in a new outdoor music venue as well so remember our Purp purpose here is to take a horse track that basically was abandoned when we purchased it you know the horse racing was obviously on the you know kind of coming to the end and so we've taken an abandoned horse racing track and our objective is to try and bring people to the site as as quickly as we can so uh we have a a concert venue the first of those concerts is uh is this Saturday the uh EV evet Brothers I think I'm sorry it's a for 23y old members of my staff they they know the the group I I'm sorry I I don't know the groups I apologize if it's not Bruce Springstein I'm I'm not sure I know who it is um so the uh but they'll be here on Saturday um and uh and we sold out four shows last year the venue holds 8,500 people so we had four shows last year very successfully and we want to repeat that um again this year um so we we feel good about where we are I think it's no secret that there have been economy there have been challenges in the economy this year interest rates um went up uh significantly since uh the beginning of 201 23 which has affected everybody but we have our next building designed and ready to go um we spent probably close to $10 million on the predevelopment of that building completing the design and the rest uh we actually have advanced where the building permit is sort of ready it's uh here we've applied for the building permit here with the city we'll pull that building permit as soon as we can get uh costs lined up on that project uh and so we're working now with the various U members of the team to get cost lined up but that project uh could start will start this year we have financing in place for that we just have to get the costs lined up for that project so those uh csil are really the the you know the key updates I think and I'm happy to answer pe people's uh questions thank you very much um the two makers of the motion I'm going to have them speak first I don't know which one councelor McKenna thank you thank you Tom for being up here um the reason why we brought this um to F fruition is because we we were hearing rumors that the our site wasn't doing well and so to stop the rumors and just to clarify everything that's going on we wanted you to come up here and just talk about that so um uh and I know Michelle uh councelor Kelly wants to talk about that too so I'm going to put it over to her but that's why we called you up here thank you thank you thank you councelor councelor Kelly thank you Mr President thank you Mr O'Brien for being here tonight um so really my reasoning for um having you come in is yes some of the rumors but more importantly we have to vote on bonding for the new high school on May 20th um and in a presentation made by by Mr visc the city CFO in January 2023 we were told that over the course of a 20year span we could expect $40 million in revenue from the project at suffk downs and most importantly how rapidly this development progresses will be the key factor in the city's ability to finance the new high school um therefore my biggest concern before we take a vote on bonding for the new high school on May 20th is whether the project is still progressing at the original projections that were proposed is it still on schedule as originally planned so we purchased the site as I said in 2017 and we've expended $550 million together with a group of investors obviously on the site um to date so uh over the course of a 20 Pace we certainly anticipated that there would be occasional recessions during that period just think about our own history as a nation every 10 or 12 years or so there's a recession I will tell you that from a commercial real estate perspective commercial real estate is in recession right now so if you look at in the city of Boston and many other cities there are very few new starts of commercial buildings or large residential buildings uh but we have a building that we're delivering right now so we we had a building have a building that uh began in in the fall of 202 to that's delivering right now we have the next building in which we've spent you know $10 million as I said to design and prepare and get that building in the ground we're working with the various stakeholders to get the costs on that building lined up to make sure that it can start uh we would like to start that building this year we intend to start that building this year the objective is to build the site as fast as we possibly can to bring people to the site so for example we have restaurants that will populate the first uh floor of the the building that we're delivering right now we have there's nine different retail slots in that building and we have seven letters of intent for uh different retail entities restaurants uh food some exercise facilities things like that to fill in those slots so what we're trying to do is create a place where people want to be I can assure you counselor that uh we acquired the site together with a group of very stable investors having spent $550 million so far on the site nobody's walking away from this and nobody wants to slow it down but we do exist in a in a capital environment where interest rates have gone up by 100 basis points 200 basis points you you pick the the spread um and it's made it more difficult more challenging but we feel like things are are improving and we anticipated that there would be some swings along the way over the 20-year period so I appreciate your answer but so are you on track then are you on course of this 20year period that you believe that you are okay and if interest rates stay the same do you think that's going to continue to have a negative impact on progress well what ends up happening I I don't interest rates will stay the same I I don't think they'll go back to where they were I don't you know we had at different points people could get a home mortgage for 3% you know at a different point today that's not possible you know Home Mortgage today is probably up around seven or even eight% right so it's just not possible today I don't think that interest rates will go back to that 3% level I think that they will come down um they won't be at the current level I don't think for you know for another year or so I think they'll come down a little bit so I I do think that interest rates will come down which will help us but the truth is at the same time that that's happening we need to adjust costs so the the beauty of this site is the size of it so we can we can create um an opportunity to take advantage of the economies of the scale of the site to pre-purchase 10,000 doors pre- purchase you know 10,000 light fixtures all those things and that's the objective for us right now to continue with that investment and of the four phases of the project only phase one is underway right now correct and what is the percentage of completion on phase one so we're delivering the first building so phase one if I recall correctly I think there's like um I think it's like a million it's like 1.7 millionare feet of total development the first building is being completed right now so that that building is is probably uh I'm going to say 300,000 square feet or so of that we have an agreement with a hotel developer that will uh take up that the next piece and the next building is another call it 350,000 squ fet approximately actually I'm sorry let me let me take that back first building is about 500,000 sare fet I'm sorry um the next building is probably another 500,000 ft and we have um as I said designed and ready to go that building so probably the first million square feet will be delivered in the next you know fully 24 months um so so you think in percentages how far along are you in that phase so I would say right now we've designed or have in the ground uh well over 50% of that first phase okay and the word in certain construction material circles yes that Supply construction materials is that two projects uh namely R3 and R11 R3 is um cited for 440 residential units with 33,000 ft of retail space and R11 is approximately 251,000 squ feet of biolab that materials for that those two um specific buildings are on hold until at least April 2025 is that correct no not correct R3 is that's the one that I've descried which is designed that's actually 473 units that's fully designed and ready to go The Architects um all the team is ready to go we're working with various members of the uh both the the trades as well as um uh you know suppliers to be sure that we have cost lined up we need cost to line up on that project to we need people to meet what they've agreed to on their side of the obligations to get the cost lined up on that if we get the cost lined up we have the capital raised and ready to go on that building so that building will begin this year um the on R11 which is a a life science building uh that building is next to the building that we're completing right now we dug the hole for that building we ordered the steel for that building uh we spent a ton of money on that we probably spent I don't know 20 to 25 million dollars on that building but the life science business changed drastically this year and so it used to be when we started that building used to be that the key to that business was to build a building on spec in other words without a tenant uh and that market shifted quite a bit and so we did put that on pause for now but we spent a ton of money on it nobody's walking away from that and Our intention is to fill that with the tenant and I spend a lot of time my own personal time trying to work with the tenant that's the the key to the site is to bring people to the site with the retail the music the residential all that make it a place that's no longer an a you know abandoned horse racing track then once we get that then we'll be able to get a life science company into this city that will make a big difference in the creation of commercial property taxes so you don't see the delay on that life science building impacting it all the the $40 million in Revenue that the city is expected to get within a 20e span I think over the course of 20 if you're asking me over the course of 20 years are are we going to get a a life science building we get that building underway absolutely I I can sit here and tell you that it's the question is you know can we begin it in 24 right and that's the objective is to try and get that lined up the issue is things change the circumstances changed when interest rates went up in 23 the circumstances in that market changed so for example and the City of Boston and the City of Cambridge okay which are the heart and soul of the life science Market there I believe there have been no new starts just in that space so for us where we're trying to make a site we're trying to make it a place where people would be attracted a new site um it's even that's that much harder we have to hit a you know harder bar to do that so our objective is build the retail build the residential build the music Place make it a place where people want to be that's this is the time to do that okay and and do you have a general contract or under cont contract with you right now uh we do U Mor Ari is building the um uh the building that we're delivering right now uh and then we've elected to uh switch our general contractor our next building uh and we're working with suffet construction on that which is the largest general contractor in the region okay and so um do you have any time type of a time frame for phase phases two through four right now phases two through four oh so the next phases you mean after that um you know basically we would try and begin those as quickly as we could after phase one um so if we could we would build it all as fast as we possibly can the the problem is the issue is the absorption of both the residential buildings and the absorption of the commercial spaces but remember you know part of what we're doing here is we're spending money on the site in infrastructure in parks and the like so having spent now $550 million nobody's walking away from this our objective is to build it as fast as we can it's this is this is a huge investment for everybody and Our intention is to build this out when you've said no one's walking away from this have you walked away from projects in the past that haven't been completed I can't think of anything in my career that I've ever walked I mean honestly I can't think of anything in my life that I've ever walked away from honestly counselor hopefully we'll get to know one another but I you you will you will know that I am a person who never ever quits on anything so the projects that hym starts they complete they they come to fruition and completion yeah I mean I I don't know if this is a question you're asking me on something you know we we're yeah I mean I I can't think of anything that we've not yet completed there are things the next phases of other projects that we have to finance and build yes um but the uh but we've completed everything that we're obligated to complete that's for sure all right thank you so much appreciate it yep thank you counselor councelor sylvestri thank you Tom for taking the time to come up um Tom can you give us a timeline on the hotel yeah so um essentially what needs to happen is we need to get the R3 project which we call Portico under once we get that project underway then in the phasing of this then what we're trying to do is get to the next piece which is a a block that exists on the other side of the park where Portico will be built and that Park will include both a a smaller residential building and the hotel so we're trying to get this building in the ground this year so we can get to you know hopefully next year getting this these next two in the ground um as quickly as possible and and the hotel the hotel the hotel doesn't want to begin until we've started to close out that that you know that block that piece and the hotel obviously wants to uh open without a building being built right next door to it that's that's the challenge the hotel would build they they would love to go tomorrow but in the phasing of this we need to get these first two buildings underway and it benefits you as much as it benefits us to to finish this project in a timely manner right yeah if we if we're not working I mean just the model of our business is you know is we have these sites and we go out and we raise the capital to to you know to build the buildings so the capital comes from large institutional investors it doesn't come from it's not in a safe back at hym so we have to go to a life insurance company a pension fund whoever that is to to capitalize these projects and if we can't capitalize these projects and we're not working then we don't get paid so the way my business works is we are absolutely incentivized to to build these buildings as quickly as possible and how much work has been done on the Boston side of so we we've spent a ton of money again on infrastructure and the like um on the Boston side to set up water sewer electrical all those different pieces uh our but our Focus right now is on the r side to get this this piece lined up the r piece honestly lines up very well we spent more money on infrastructure we purchased you know Beach Mountain roast beef we we're in the middle of redoing winter path we installed all the water sewer all the electrical we upgraded the electrical you know with National Grid and those folks so there's been a ton of money spent on on the r side and that's our short-term focus is to is to get R you know completed as quickly as possible thank you for your time tonight Tom thank you thank you councelor councelor Areno thank you Mr President thank you Mr O'Brien for coming uh previous councilors have asked several questions that I was going to ask um the music venue is that going to be a permanent part of this facility or is that just a shortterm so as we build the site out the music venue is going to have to change a little bit just because we we built it out so it will end up being the Cent Central space in the park that we'll create so the music venue you know we've signed a 10-year agreement with bow presents who's our partner to bring the the music acts to you know to the site and to kind of run it there the professionals who run this so you know our hope though is to keep music on the site so maybe it's you know maybe we adjust it maybe there's a different piece maybe it's more of an indoor venue something like that but we're we definitely think that music and entertainment will always have it's always had a role on the site so we we we Embrace that we want to keep that going excellent thank you and the bu lab is there ever a chance that you might pivot away from a biolab and and go to something else or I mean this is the core of the Massachusetts economy right now I mean the the the when you think about where we've come as a as a state the the engines that make the economy run are the engines around the the colleges the institutions of Higher Learning the hospitals those pieces and that that those group of Institutions have generated a huge amount of uh Economic Development in the Commonwealth so they they've taken Cambridge and Boston and all those different pieces and raised that economy up in a big way so our objective is to uh is to have a piece of that come to suff Downs I think that's the best way to create tax revenue create jobs and the rest the office market today is really struggling right so it it's just a question of uh finding the right tenant correct okay yeah correct thank you and the Tenant by the way could come in the form of you know the these these tenants are associated with hospital so these are you know these are these are high-end tenants who are associated with all the medical institutions that we know and trust so well thank you very much thank you counselor councelor Gino SAA hi Tom thank you for coming um they all asked my questions but I have a couple more um the summer concerts that we were just discussing do they have do you have them lined up for the summer already for the entire summer we do I apologize counselor I don't have it off hand so the AET Brothers start on Saturday and then I think there's another 12 shows that have been announced so it's on our our site there's a suffs site uh or you can you can access it off of the HM site um and uh and so that I think the concert listings are on on there okay now the restaurants um do you know what restaurants are already coming in there or we feel pretty good about it I'm sorry I just we're under an NDA with these folks but we we want to announce it as fast as we can so we're we're working at trying to get them all lined up so we can publicly announce you know also all the retail as well yes yes perfect thank you reason why we want to get that next building underway because remember the design of those two buildings are they're across we're creating all the streets everything else and so they're right across the street from one another so creating a retail piece you know that feels similar to assembly row for example you know what was created at assembly row came from nowhere into a Main Street that's our objective is to do the same sort of thing perfect thank you y thank you counselor councelor H Mr O'Brien thanks so much for being up here tonight um coun so I had asked a question I was curious about regarding the the shop the restaurants and the retail shops and I know you can't say much about that and your goal is to more or less bring attract people to the site um can you talk a little bit about the target audience that you had in mind when you look for perspective um restaurants and retail shops sure I'd say I'd say there's multiple Target audiences I I will say just reflecting for a moment with Council McKenna you know from the very first when we started with councilor McKenna her objective with us was to make it place where people would want to visit local people people from Rivier people from East Boston so so the objective is to create restaurants um in a in a city where I think people would want more restaurants so TR try and create opportunity for there to be you know places where people can have a function or or things like that um that would be available for people from R so so one you know target audience are families and and people who you know have have been here in revie and and would like to enjoy restaurants without having to get in the car and drive too far away um so that's one piece of it the other piece of it is we're also trying to find uh restaurants that would be attractive for you know a larger group of people who we just want to come and have them discover the site and and kind of be here because that's the other piece you know to councelor Kelly's question you know coun you know it's the the whole the whole uh objective here is to make it a place where a commercial business would look at us and say hey this is a place that will make it possible for me to attract and keep and hire the smartest people you know in in our industry and to find those folks so we're going got to create a whole um ecosystem around that to make that work and did you thank you and did you model this kind of after like a Marketplace or um assembly row in a sense from the beginning honestly you know we do a I should have started with this by the way this is a lot of what we do so we for example uh you may recognize a site called Cambridge Crossing which is in East Cambridge so it's uh partly in East Cambridge Somerville and um uh and Charlestown so was the old rail yard that you passed over you know on the way between Charlestown and and Cambridge um it was the Boston main Rail Yard we took that over in 2010 together with an investor put in place a plan permited the plan set the plan in motion built the first few buildings because of the structure of the capital that we had on that we sold it to another entity and they're building our plan uh we're doing the same thing at bullfinch Crossing so the downtown Government Center Garage which is the world's ugliest garage um so we're in the uh process of we've completed the demolition of that project we've completed two large towers on that so we transformed we did the same thing with New Balance um in alustin so that campus which was old industrial properties um worked with New Balance to transform that into the practice facility for the Boston Bruins for a new life science building for new residential building a music venue all those things so we take these sites that people don't necessarily Envision as a place where you would want to go eat a meal or and we convert you know we change them takes a long time but we love doing it great thank you thank you thank you counselor any other counselors councelor janino IO Mr bran thank you for being here oh sorry how are question about the um I know in the beginning we first you plan this out there was a traffic plan for the area bunch of improvements you're going to do as far as the neighborhoods I know Beach's under construction you're doing Harris Street now MH what's the deal with bell Circle are we going that far or yeah so there is a bell Circle piece to it I'm sorry counselor I I have to go back and kind of review it because it happens in a future phase but the so when we went through the approval process uh mot in particular together with the city of Rivier and the City of Boston um uh LED an effort to kind of go through what the transportation plan would be so there's there were two major categories in that one is we were asked to make a contribution to the blue line which uh a chunk of which we've already made um into uh both blue L operations and to refurbishing suff down station um and then there are improvements that we are obligated to make in phases um on all the different pieces that we're doing now so the Harris Street uh change which is happening now I think this summer and as well as the um uh the Bell Circle improvements and improvements on 1A I'd be happy to come back and do a full presentation on that because we haven't done that with you guys in a couple years the original plan were were going 20 years out on the traffic Improvement stuff is there a list someplace or yeah a chat that we could look at Yeah in our document there's a whole list in there so I I could come back so as part of the meepa process there's a whole section of findings called section 61 findings that are made together with mot and the City of Rivier and the City of Boston if you guys would like I'm happy to come back and make a presentation on that which is a more detailed for formally requesting that you would do that sir happy to do that happy because I mean honestly I'm standing here there was a time when we spent a lot of time in front of the Rev city council and I know many of you are newly elected and so you know honestly I think we'd like to come back and just give you that full presentation on everything that we've agreed to do right thank you thank you thank you councelor councilor Zan buo thank you Mr President and thank you Tom for being here it's always a pleasure to have you up here uh because of your uh reputation and because of your honesty and uh I've heard a lot of rumors like everybody okay and you haven't heard from me because I know if there were anything to these rumors I probably would have talked to you about them already so uh the bottom line is the rumor start when there's a disgruntled piece you know I'm not pointing any fingers at anybody it's obvious you've made some changes and and and this is this stirs the part and there's always uh Target Rich environment to go after especially in this economy um I for years I was in construction in a very small I I never dreamed to be a an hym or anything like that or a suff or anything like that but uh this kind of stuff comes up all the time uh I did do some large projects for a small contractor and and uh Whenever there was a something a pause either caused by the owner or caused by financing or caused by whatever it's always you know you're going bankrupt done you finished you know and and and that's that's what some of these rumors were and of course uh I know what you've done I I know your reputation I drive by uh one Congress Street every day now it's most magnificent building in the city right now and uh I I don't know if anybody knows what it takes to put together a project like that but I certainly do and I'm just totally impressed uh I'm thrilled that you're the developer at suff I'm not thrilled that they're going to put the burden of paying for this High School on your back uh because when I first voted for your project it was to give a tax cut to my citizens not to help fund a half a billion dollar high school but that's neither here or there um the good news is the music venue I'm old enough to have been at suff Downs when the beos played and uh full disclosure I jumped the fence to get in there but I was I was dishonest as a kid I I I admit that I'm a I'm a a I'm an honest good Catholic today but I wasn't always and but uh the bottom line is uh you know um in this financial environment you can't answer a lot of the questions that that would would absolute honesty because things change but uh I know that your commitment is to have a life science building there and and it's probably a blessing that is being delayed because you then you can tealer it to the tenant you're going to get and it's not like it's holding up the project like you said you've already Ed the steel it it's already you know it has its place it has its place in in the project and it's not going to change um I'm looking forward to the retail I'm looking forward to the hotel I'm looking forward to the the next phase of the project and I'm thrilled to hear that the next building is going up this year that's that's in this environment that's a big accomplishment thank you and uh if you didn't have the investors that you have and with the Deep Pockets and your talent of extracting it uh uh it might be a different case but we knew that going in we knew what we were getting at least I knew what I was getting and that's why I've been shelting from the rooftops since she came here and uh I'm I'm thrilled that you're at the helm of this project and uh I hope to be here when it's finished that's that's a question for someone up above but we'll uh we'll see what happens with that but I I thank you for your uh honesty and integrity and I thank you especially for uh educating all of us on how this works thank you counselor can I just add a couple of quick things just just to give you sense of how old I am I think this is my third or fourth recession in my career so I you know I was still a kid in 1989 1990 was another recession it was a terrible recession in 2008 2009 um as you guys know so the lesson I've learned is to just keep hanging in there you show up every it's the same it's like a anybody who's involved in athletics you just it's the same thing you just keep showing up every day be a nice person work hard that's that's the key to it um to put it all in perspective when we complete this this project okay in the next uh you know 20 years or so uh we will have raised and spent almost $10 billion of capital so it's a significant number um and the objective is to bring that so if we do that and you think about the value that that creates for this city you know $10 billion of capital hopefully produces value that's in excess of that obviously right so that's that's really what the objective here is to do this and um U there are a lot of good pieces I don't have to tell you we've got blue line access we have a great city with a great school system we have the beach we have all the other pieces all the reasons why we spent $550 million to date are still exist and they and they will exist for a long time to come so um that's why we're here thank you thank you counselor counselor Gino SAA speaking on the rumor mill I have to ask you are you going to have water feature I I heard there was some type of a a big water feature that was going to be well basically what we're going to do is we will take so there'll be a a very large Central Park where the music venue is now we'll complete that Central Park and then as part of that we open up and kind of will improve sales Creek you know Sal Creek is was you know was in the heart of the racetrack and it wasn't always treated well by the the you know the the folks who ran the racetrack over the course of the last hundred years but it is a a great open water feature from our perspective so and there may also be fountains as well as as we go along but there'll be there'll be pieces like that as we is there going to be a big Atrium um outdoor like outdoor music well we'll keep the outdoor music for the next 10 years or so I think over time what ends up happening is the music will probably go to a a venue that would be more of an indoors indoor venue maybe a little bit smaller there's that's one thing that's happened in Boston is there's been probably two or three different new music venues that have opened up in the last um five years or so and all of them are actually doing pretty well so we want to be part of that thank you thank you thank you counselor councelor yo thank you Mr President uh sorry for being late uh how's it going Tom uh nice to see you again um Tom to we heard a little bit we heard some concerns from counselor Kelly earlier in the in the hearing around the revenue piece um has your team done studies around you know sites aren't built in a vacuum you're building in a city with 70,000 people has your team done any studies as to any rever reverberating effect that this site might have to the economy here in the city of river um and if so can you shut some light onto what that looks like we did so um I'd have to go back and and kind of find it but we did during the permitting process we hired an outside third party to do kind of an economic analysis to say okay as we build these buildings what will it produce in terms of tax revenue so I I'd be more than happy to go back through that and then I think the city's tax projections were based upon the the assessor's office I believe reached out to us at a certain point and said what do you think the schedule is and so I think the the um the city's tax Pro projections are based in part on on information that our team has has provided is that um only narrowed in through to the site or is that with the other with the other I think when we did the tax projection during the permitting process we we did take into account the kind of the Rippling effect across the city um but I I have I apologize it's been a few years since I looked at that so I have to go back and look at that so okay I think I was still in my 20s when this started and and I was going to your community meetings uh on behalf of the sen Senator Bon Cory at the time we did 450 different Community meetings I was there for quite a bit of them um the other things we you mentioned a little bit and we've already talked a little bit about this so I don't I don't want you I don't need you to go in depth um but where is the transition uh on with the GC can you give us an update on that if you don't have an update right now that's okay we can tou Bas offline but I'm happy to do that yeah the you know generally um what I what I could say is um we our objective is to build buildings as fast as possible um we in addition to you know this may or may not be something the council wants to you know talk too much about but there is a there is a region-wide housing crisis so there's a significant amount of demand for housing um and we believe we can build this housing if they get if we get the cost lined up and so part of what we've been trying to do is work with the team to push hard to make sure that people meet their obligations that they agree to with us some years ago and so um we basically switched contractors because we weren't satisfied that that group was meeting the obligations that they let out for us and so we've got a different group I don't know if you know sea construction they're very large general contractor uh a datadriven company um strong you know we have a great team of people with them right now we're working hard to get this thing um lined up great thank you and um you you're talking a little bit about the housing piece there which I think uh we all agree that we need to ensure that we have more housing in the Greater Boston region suff Downs is a big piece of that um and I heard you I was listening in the car on my way from work so I heard I heard all of the hearing um but um I Heard a little bit about the cost issues and of course we've talked at length here about about the interest rates and whatnot are there any additional ways that uh we can increase that profit margin for for that site while also increasing the housing production piece which is so important so the key thing on this is it's actually not really profit margin here's here's what here's what the issue is on residential projects just quickly so residential projects um in Greater Boston uh beginning in before the beginning of 2023 what you needed to do was to be able to underwrite that that housing project to a 5 and a half% return on cost which seems like a pretty simple return but basically the group of investors who would be in those projects life science companies Pension funds those like those folks they like the predictability of a housing project and they're willing to accept the return of of five and a half percent so what's happened since then is in addition to the cost of capital going up so interest rates for construction loans have gone up so that's one piece of it plus the cost of materials have gone up the cost of Labor two-thirds of every one of these projects two-thirds are made up of Labor and uh materials costs those pieces so all those costs have gone up but in addition to that as interest rates go up then the return expectations of those investors has also gone up so the biggest hurdle is we went from a 5 a half% expected return on cost to now a 6 and half% return on cost so we've worked hard to get these costs lined up if we get the costs lined up we can hit that 6 and a half% return on cost which means we're in business and we can build these buildings so that's our objective is to get people there so it's it's actually it's not profit it's like a very simple can you hit the return you can build it if you can't hit the return you can't build it sure um You're Building significantly more housing the Boston side though is that right yes yeah back at the time in Council mcken Council Zabo you know people will remember the the objective was to bring commercial development to rever where there had not been you know sizable amounts of that so basically what's been permitted is half of the um the approved square footage can be for housing half must be for commercial that's sounds good and um I also heard you talk a little bit earlier about the life science Industry and in relation to Cambridge and Boston and the challenges that that presents uh but you know I remember uh sitting these meetings way way way early on and and thinking about the how we link Rivier to Great to Boston and Cambridge right and are there anything that we should be advocating for from this Council or putting in investments in to ensure that uh we're making that link either physically um you know I know that there's been a a lot of talk about the blue blue red connector um and how that possibility could possibly impact the workers you're bringing here uh into that site even the the tenants uh have you heard any conversations to that effect what what can we what have you foreseen it sounds like you're working really hard to bring a good tenant uh what do you foresee uh or what are you hearing or what are you seeing is there anything like that happening or development so I just I think the mayor's still here and I just want to point out the mayor's been great with helping us work through all different issues so red blue L connector is a great example we we should all honestly we should be working carefully with one another we we Advocate on that every day but of course you know when we advocate for that we we look like we're we have an interest because we do right to to make this but I mean people should remember that's an unfulfilled obligation on the part of the Comm of Massachusetts to this community and to other communities here on the North Shore so that's that's something we should clearly work together on to make sure that the people of this community can connect to those jobs the the job engine for Eastern Massachusetts has become Kendall Square in in East Cambridge I mean it's it happened over a period of time but that has become the job engine so people from this community should be as connected to those jobs as anybody else on the green line and the orange line and all the rest of it so yes red green red blue line connector is is one piece of it um the in addition to that we're trying to build as much infrastructure as we can so as we build these pieces in and there are uh pieces of the governor's housing Bond bill that might allow us to build more infrastructure in partnership with the mayor and with all of you so we probably would come back before the council to kind of give you a sense of that uh as we go back and then my last question um going back a little bit about of course uh you'd work with the city and with other partners a great deal to ensure that um River's workers are are protected on site um and not much of a question more of a statement making sure that as you make the Transitions and move into the next faces that that continues to be the case but of course we've already talked about this at length um you and I and I'm grateful for for your responsive for your information and um and with that I yield thank you coun Mr President thank you councelor councelor McKenna thank you um Mr President uh I was just wondering if suff uh construction is a labor is Union they are yeah they are signatory to the Boston Carpenters Union um as is Mor Ari so the same um you know entity uh and so the objective is to try and get uh so if I can back up a little bit uh counselor so remember our vision here was to has been to build all of these buildings on 100% Union basis um and that's unusual for rever if I can just point out um I don't think there's any other project outside of the project that we're building right now that is being built on 100% Union basis in rev I don't think that's been true with the exception of maybe public projects I don't think that's been true ever in fact there's a building that's being built I can throw a rock from our building which is called Amaya at a building on Bennington Street that's being built as you may know down across from the school uh and that building is being built on 100% non-union basis while our building is being built on a union basis the unions bring us a huge Advantage we think because we get trained people on site every day who also are safety conscious uh and so they give us predictability they give us schedule all those sorts of things there has been a project labor agreement that was uh agreed to by the previous contractor and uh and you know and and the Boston Building Trades um it is our contention that the previous contractor and the Boston Building Trades have not lived up to all of the obligations that they agreed to do on that so we're in the midst right now of trying to point out to the Building Trades that they must meet those obligations in order to hit the costs that we have to hit for this project if they meet those obligations then we can build the building but my intention this is kind of a sacred thing my intention is to build this building and if we can't build the building the way we want to then we'll find another way to build it if we had to do that um you know with other Trad people thank you very much uh Mr O'Brien any other counselors councilor Zan buo last one everybody thanks thanks for the leeway uh I appreciate your honesty again in in in explaining what happens when someone doesn't meet the commitment you made a lot of commitments especially the pla uh uh whatever you call it the project labor agreement uh and when when those are not held to exactly then the deal the deal isn't going right that's you do that for a reason it's not just to be a great guy and have everything Union you do it so that you can meet your objectives and and costs and time frame and when that is not being adhered to well somebody's breaking the agreement but nobody talked about that the rumors that I heard and the stories the phone calls that I got were you know obviously that you're a bad guy and and and and that's Theory so thank you for putting on the table what actually happened well I I would say just closing there is an intensive effort that's on right ongoing right now to get these cost Lin out and I'm very comfortable with who I am comfortable with my reputation and what we're all about and as you point out counselor um if people make an agreement then they need need to live up to their end of the agreement period so that's that's what this is about thank you councel I thought that was going to be the last one but uh councilor sylvestri un Rec he's good thank you uh councelor Kelly thank you for the leeway Mr President um so this is probably just my ignorance in the construction realm of things but since we did talk about the pla agreement and that was brought up in Con in suffa construction of marotti you said that it was 100% Union under the initial GC that you had marotti expectations weren't being lived up to whatever so you're switching over to suff construction however you felt that the tra you were having trouble with the trades is what you were saying but then you said that suffk would also be Union and also be trade so I'm I'm kind of confused as to how that is coinciding with one another or what the point of that would be if if I'm guess I'm confused when we started the first project the first project the trades did not meet their obligations under that project but we started the project from the fall of 22 which was quite honestly a different financing environment it was a more forgiving financing environment so we could begin the project at a return on cost that was less than the 5 and a half% which was the market number that I just described earlier so we began the project and we all looked at one another and said okay but in order to get the next project underway you folks need to work now this is in the fall of 2022 to line up these costs and get this Workforce ready to go and you know establish the plan for that and it didn't happen so um so we are working you're right with the union general contractor in order to push this process we needed somebody hard-nosed data driven harder on these topics to push hard on this topic and we needed their attention we needed them to to work with us to make sure that they were focused on us to get this done and that's where we are now my hope is to still get there and to get this thing uh across the line but again my objective my objective is to build this building you want us to build this building my investors want me to build this building my invest quite frankly look at me and they say I don't understand O'Brien if there's an obligation why aren't people meeting their obligations why are you standing still so we first filed the building application the mayor's team will tell you we first filed the building permit application for this building we had a completed design 16 months ago so for 16 months we've been asking the Building Trades and that general contractor to live up to their obligations I think we've been more than patient so we want to get this building underway thank you counselor I I do believe we have someone from the audience that may have some questions or comments I'm going to just give some little leeway good evening sir name and address for the record please sorry I'm losing my voice um at Terell 70 schol Street RS I just want to bring two subjects to dovetail all this the first is I think I read in the Boston Business Bureau that uh hm's largest investor with suffk Downs is is a uh Texas oil magnet so I thought that was very interesting about how we're having a conversation about climate change and I was hoping that councilor wo would uh talk about it a little bit the other thing I'd like to talk about is affordable housing now on the Rivier side we have 3,000 units but apparently only 60 of them are listed as affordable that pushes our 40b requirement down to about 7% I think maybe Tom can talk a a little bit about that but that's another subject I also wanted to talk about and that's about it thank you Mr President thank you very much um all right if there's no other questions or no other public comment this is the only business before us and uh call for the meeting to be adjourned thank you for