##VIDEO ID:HDg-3ST4AJI## good afternoon everyone I'd like to call the legislative uh sub Affairs subcommittee to order please join me in a salute to the flag conations to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all roll call to the members of the legislative affairs subcommittee councelor greo SAA here here councelor hero is absent councelor Kelly here here and councel sylvestri is absent and chairman Areno here here Quorum is present first item on tonight's agenda is Council order 24061 an ordinance providing interpretation and translation services for public public meetings and public documents thank you madam clerk um at the public hearing uh Miss inzerello had spoken U against this ordinance um maybe she can come up and um it sounds like the city is doing a lot for interpretation services and uh her opinion was that this ordinance went a little bit too far A little too extreme and the city didn't have the Manpower or the finances to do it at this point but there is quite a bit of work being done already for translation and miss inel you want to yes so through you Mr chairman to the rest of the members of the subcommittee just to briefly refresh your memory before you decide uh we're just asking that you have faith in the pilot program that we're working on it fulfills our duties to the Department of Housing and Urban Development while offering widespread language Services once it's completed if a year from now you're not satisfied you think we can do better there's always going to be room for improvement and we can work with our counselors and our other staff to find those areas of improvement and while we do appreciate the thought and intent behind councelor haro's motion we ask that you give us a chance to First prove we can do what we're trying to do with what we have and then maybe there will be funding more Personnel in the future and we can go back and work on those recommendations thank you uh do any members wish to speak councelor Gino thank you I agree Claire and I think the city is doing enough um for interpretation services and we cannot take more money out of the budget right now to have extra when we don't need it thank you councilor Kelly thank you um yes and I also just want to I agree with um councelor Gina sooya and I also wanted to just point out um Steve morabito's letter the director of diversity equity and inclusion um and I thought it was a very thoughtful letter and I agree with all of his points um so I I believe that this is just a little premature right now so thank you councilor Haro has just arrived we're talking about the translation services your motion um we were ready to make a motion to place it on file do you have any comment uh yeah so I watched the meeting from last week thank you Mr chairman for the leeway uh and it's unfortunate uh that the administration I've worked with for a few months on this now uh is backtracking a little bit and it's quite honestly disappointing um that some of the residents in this city who do not speak English uh will not have access to a more forward thinking translation services uh which been working for months on this um this was in alignment with the HUD regulations and we were going to go above and beyond which we should because we're a city that should lead uh I'm okay with the placing on file for now I guess um and I look forward to a more honest conversation with the administration moving forward thank you Mr chair thank you uh do I hear a motion to place on file motion second okay thank you so when you do the report next item is Council order 24176 an ordinance further amending regulate further amending regulations relative to short-term rentals thank you any councilors wishing to speak we had a uh public hearing and it seemed like everyone was in agreement with these new changes uh Mr agenzio is here tonight if you have any further questions uh if not we can uh move to look on this affirmatively okay motion to um pass this and look on it uh in the affirmative second in favor all in favor all osed all right it's awarded next up is Council order 24220 communication from the Dei director relative to an ordinance establishing rules and regulations for the display of flags and the use of City Hall good evening counselors Steve morbido 281 Broadway director of diversity equity and inclusion um the ordinance before you um stems from the US Supreme Court decision in Clift first Boston case this ordinance sets a policy at which flags can be displayed as an expression of City's official sentiment ensuring that flag polls are not intended to serve as public forum for free expression by individuals or groups instead the flags flown represent the official Sentiments of the city of Riv which should be ordered by this honorable body the lack of consistent policy opens the door to all flag raisings the importance of codifying these regulations is important for legal compliance and to safeguard the city of Rivier for future for any law potential lawsuit having this policy adopted is the strongest defense of a potential lawsuit because it is being ordered by the legis this legislative body of our city and the mayor this is not to deter the city from having flag raisings but instead to safeguard Us by having a policy that lines up with the US Supreme Court's decisions in the case shirtliff vers Boston flag raising policies are being passed not just here trying to be passed in Riv but in neighboring cities from Lynn Medford across the Commonwealth to Framingham LEL but not only um municipalities in the state of Massachusetts passing flag raising policies based on the Supreme Court's decision but municipalities throughout the country so this is something you guys need to think hard and long about I know you guys did you due diligence and did your research at the end of the day this is about protecting our city for potential lawsuits I know you guys had some questions from the solicitor um I know Clea is here um if you if you have any question questions any legal questions Council council president candra thank you Mr chairman uh that's my one holdup is that we don't have an opinion from our solicitor or the solicitor's office um I think this goes along with freedom of speech and before I put my name on something I'd like to be sure that we're not violating that so first I'm hoping he's on Route because he's watching right now so I think he's coming from his office he was a little unclear on what the actual opinion desired was so I think he's going to come with a blank slate for you guys to ask specific questions if you don't mind waiting a minute or two okay uh Mr marbo there's a small um problem we have to cure up with the short-term rentals I we'll we'll do that now as we wait for Mr capy chairman there was a an amendment uh proposed by uh let's see CLA had sent this on August uh 27th and that was to add a new section section 8. 09.03 of the revised ordinance of the city rier is further amended by inserting the following new subsection H accessory dwelling units as defined in chapter 17.25 of the zoning by laws of the city of Rivier are prohibited from being used as a short-term rental sorry we forgot to flag that but that amendment was sent in uh following the passage of the housing Bond bill uh the really big one that you've probably seen around in the news and we the short-term rental office through Vincent and Nick thought it would be a precaution to make sure that those types of dwellings were excluded from short-term rental use which the Commonwealth allows us to do at a local level on the amendment all in favor all opposed all right on the short-term rental motion as amended I okay thank you sorry for the delay I didn't think you get through it so fast it's only 10 5 I thought it was the third item on the agenda we're moving quick do any councilors uh have uh questions for Mr cap council president C thank you Mr chairman thank you for being here Mr capy the question is just we wanted to make sure that we had an opinion from you on this to make sure that we're protected as well I don't think most of us want to put our name on something unless we're sure that it's legal uh to pass this so yes it's it's legal to pass it thank you councelor Kelly good evening attorney capy thank you for being here I know that I emailed you and you answered some of my questions but my big concerns are still um I know that you said Boston and some neighboring towns have done it this way um I personally would feel more comfortable if we just satisfied the OB our obligations pursuant to the lawsuit the shirli case just by way of a proclamation instead of all this other language that's included in this ordinance um my concerns are for one duration there's there's nothing mentioned in the ordinance regarding time or duration so how would that be dealt with well I I'll first say there's no time and duration in probably 99.9% of all our ordinances if you're going to establish a policy for flag raising a proclamation is not the best way to do it generally a proclamations are a formal announcement to recognize a special event or occasion or a Personal Achievement policy per se can be law and that's what this is it would be a law it would erase all ambiguity as to what we intend to do with a flag raising policy there would be no doubt as to what this Council preferred what the mayor prefers what the city policy actually is proclamations I don't know if those are recorded if anyone can look it up it's just too vague for me personally in my opinion which is why I think Boston and other neighboring towns established the most solid way to let the world know that that flag pole outside either is available for public speech or is not available for public speech speech so follow up on that if I could so and that's one of the issues I have is vagueness so in other words when I'm speaking about duration I'm referring to the length of time say some the flag would be raised for so H how do we oh I see what you're saying how do we address that yeah the way this has been working it would be determined by the proclamation established so if the mayor said we're going to hang I don't know a flag for 30 days that would be for 30 days my understanding is the flag pole is not being replaced the city flag is not being replaced it's occasionally being used to now Express if this passes the city's speech so the Court gives a good example of if the Red Sox win the World Series and the council that may decide they want to hang up the Red Sox flag for a week to recognize this Championship they can so do that it wouldn't just be hanging the Red Sox Banner indefinitely not knowing when to take it down the events planner depending on what the thing is being offered would also play a role in saying we'd like the flag up if you don't mind could you put it up and you guys could decide whether you allow it or not for a specific time so at the time it determination is made the way I see this playing out is at the time when the duration will be set I misunderstood your question I thought you meant duration on the ordinance not the the content of the flag raising so in so in the scenario that I'm thinking of is that say if one flag is up for an entire month and then another protected group or class or requests that their flag also be up say and say well we want ours up for an entire month I don't think it's going to work that way this is there's nothing in here that says it doesn't work that way actually what it says in here is it's the city's determination as to what flags will be raised so groups can't just come up here every month and go I'd like my flag up for a month unless it's specifically Allowed by the ordinance which I think makes exception for the some military Flags the uh P flag I think juneth in Pride flag nobody has the right to hang to display any flag any longer if we adopt this ordinance it's up to the city to determine if they will allow it and it has to be representative of the government speech not the individual speech I think a good example to consider is the pride flag and the juneth flag both go up in June if I'm correct in the D office and my assumption would be we have the pride flag up for the duration of June but we know that juneth on that day goes up for the one day and then comes down so we work around what the duration needs to be depending on the logistics of that event but to your question people can't just be flooding the they can't now quite frankly under our current policy anyone could request to put a flag up but under this new policy much like what Boston's going to adopt to eliminate challenges in case you want to deny a particular flag which which is what Boston day and was found to be in violation of the First Amendment no one would have the right to any flag other than the ones that we want to put up we being the city and and when you say that we being the city so you mentioned the mayor so with this and I have to go back and read the language but is it by his sole discretion all I believe that also the city council votes as well so so when would that be distinguished in which case would it be the mayor would it be the city council what would determine that so it would checks and balances so the mayor could present a AE presented before the city council or the city c a city council could present a flag raising before the city council and then it would be approved by the mayor vice versa checks and balances so the city council would always have a role yes the ordinance has the ordinance has written it says proclamation of the mayor a resolution of the city council other flags may be flown by the city in place of the city of Riva flag and then it gives uh some subcontext to that so that's a great question I don't know procedurally maybe it's a discussion to have with Ashley offline as to how that will look how that will work but there are 11 of you maybe 11 of you want 11 different flags at different times maybe the mayor wants a bunch of flags my experience thus far there hasn't been a lot of kicking down the door to race Flags it's been few and far between so I don't I'm not saying with it's not a concern but let's not create a problem that doesn't currently exist okay thank you Council har mrzy how are you uh so I just had a question about you mentioned here proclamations and you were just saying in your speech that uh we don't want to do it by proclamation is that right correct that's my entire ordinance says Proclamation at every point one 2 3 instead of an ordinance a proclamation not the council and the mayor can't make a proclamation to recognize a special event or a special occasion Michelle Kelly's and councilor Kelly excuse me councilor Kelly's um concern was that would we rather not do a proclamation instead of adopting the ordinance to set the policy the codification in the ordinance gives the proclamation the bones that it doesn't have on its own okay um question subsection C lowercase a ran numeral 5 during the month of June the lgbtq plus Pride flag and the Jun flag may may be displayed upon the proclamation of the mayor resolution of city council is this in line with what other cities and towns are doing in their flag ordinances I think so in some you can speak to it if we're speaking honestly it depends on if you're looking at Red States or blue States Los Angeles Massachusetts yeah definitely we actually this is almost a direct copy of the City of Medford the City of Medford yep um would this not be a speech statement here that we're embedding into an otherwise General ordinance yes so why are we making the distinction between this speech and that speech is my question this but you're I think if I understand your question when we think of free speech we tend to think of an American citizen in the government infringing that Free Speech what the courts have determined is that the government also has free speech so if that becomes our flag poll and the Patriots win a Super Bowl and we want to put up a flag of the Patriots winning the Super Bowl we can do that that's the city of a acknowledging the Patriots won the Super Bowl we then do not have to agree to then hang up a Jets flag if a Jets fan asks us to put us up because that poll is not representative of citizens Free Speech a personal Free Speech it's representative of government speech okay so but so we make a specific carve out about both of these instances which I personally agree with uh but we are denying the Jets fan for example yes the opportunity to if they maybe 50% of the city is uh is Jets fans in fact there are cities in New England where half the city is a Giants fan half the city is a Patriots FL uh fans well you guys could decide to permit it this ordinance hasn't passed yet and I think it's in the committee and you may make other changes to it I don't know I know Zim buo submitted an amendment I guess my question still stands why are we making particular carve outs of speech in this ordinance if this is to standardize and to avoid I'm I mean that's that's your call if you want to take it out you can I didn't write this the city council didn't write this you have to adopt it the fact that one of us wrote it doesn't mean it's the law WR on behalf of the mayor so my question is from other cities and towns and because we have historically hung the gate the the pride flag in the Jun flag is a a new holiday which is traditionally now being recognized by a lot of communities yeah okay that's why that's in there and the the PMA flag and the military flags and the uh half mast and all that is stuff that's been accustom and practice for many municipalities or any governments that have flag polls okay I mean I just I don't understand why we're deviating from president and then making carve outs for that precedent uh when things have seemed to be working fine I appreciate I appreciate deviating from precedent I think we're actually following precedent and rather than have to have a proclamation every June to put up a pride flag it can be done automatically by the mayor or by the city because the ordinance allows for that as being government speech that the city of river is recognizing Pride day or pride month or whatever it's called but what you're asking the city council to do is for every little flag whatever the flag may be maybe it's let's say September Suicide Prevention flag uh month Suicide Prevention um flag raising now we have to go through the council and you're going to have people who want that now have to either wait for the mayor to act or the city council to act and you're making the council make a political decision about a free speech move no well what's the alternative the alternative is if you leave it how you have it that's right then don't pass the ordinance okay thank you Mr P I also want to flag that if you do keep it the way that we have it right now any with the exception of very very obvious and overt hate speech which is tough to prove nowadays with the craziness that's going on any flag that comes before the city we have to say yes to we cannot deny anybody right now and given certain Hot Topic issues especially with foreign conflicts and things like that we would be stuck in a very very tough spot that's your call this is the city council's call to make you represent the citizens of the city of Rivier Boston chose to change the policy because they were sued and they did because they denied a Christian flag going up when they had previously allowed any number of different types of flags to wave on the Boston City Hall Plaza if you don't pass this ordinance which is your choice you take that control away from the city you say this pag this flag pole is open to the public anybody who wants can request and be allowed to hang up whatever flag they want whether it offend you or not doesn't matter it's free speech the Christian flag goes up the Palestinian flag goes up whatever flag wants to go up must go barring like Claire said hates a swat sticker we'd say no to but for the most part you'd be opening it to the public forum you can leave it as it is it's it's your choice I'm not telling you how to how to proceed I'm just telling you what the ordinance would require if passed thank you councilor Kelly so if I'm understanding correctly then the amendment um proposed by councilor Zano do you have that I'm just just trying to go through our choices here so our choices are do nothing and risk being sued the way Boston was sued by Hal sh only if we deny only if we deny somebody okay um and would the Church of Satan say the Temple of Satan be um uh hate speech or would that be that's a religion correct there you go there's the gray area so unless I don't know I'm not going to make the decision on this but unless there's a problem with the Church of Satan uh that flag would go up right okay so so then another option would be um as identified in the amendment proposed by councelor Zam buo is to allow um flags of the various branches of the military the United States flag blue star service flag official um which is um Mia pal pal Mia um flag United States flag Commonwealth of Massachusetts flag city of Rivier flag and include section D which is the proclamation stating that flag polls are not intended to serve as a for for the expression of the public well that's already in the ordinance Tony maybe missed that he's just restating that which is already in the draft in front of you if we adopted this we would be in compliance with the shli case and and we would right yes okay thank you councelor sylvestri thank you councelor um and and Paul thank you for coming up and I I just want to clarify so if we pass the ordinance and I don't know five years from now uh different city counselors come up here and their mindsets on a different thing can they they'll be able to change that ordinance right to to fit whatever they they need to say it's not a constitutional amendment it's a city ordinance you always have the option to amend or repeal your ordinances okay um I think I just think we're running down a slippery slope and in one today it's it's making sense the next time the ordinance change it may not make sense and a flag that we respect and want to go up may not be the flag that gets raised I mean that's the beauty of democracy it's flexible right you get to change laws you get different elected officials if at some time in the future this body maybe you won't be on it I won't be here thankfully decides that something needs to change you have and the Democracy we can do that it's not a it's not a king's edict right it's simply an ordinance to recognize and regulate the use of that flag pole by saying that's the city's flag pole it's the city's form of speech okay thank you Council Haram uh Mr capy I just um I heard something that maybe I misheard when you were saying you know all the flags that could be raised and you mentioned the Christian flag or the Palestinian flag is there concern with raising either of those flags with the city right now you're asking me if I speak on behalf of the entire city whether there's a concern of a particular flag I'm asking you pres wrote the ordinance I wrote the ordinance to to to outline the difference between free speech and government speech that's all that's so I you wrote the ordinance and then mentioned concerned with those two flags I'm I just use it as an example that if the ordinance isn't passed anyone can ask us to hang any flag they want clearly president in mind is it question my question is is that a concern with someone in the city right now does the mayor have a concern with raising the Christian or the Palestinian flag right now I'll let clear that since she helped draft it and because I also alluded to the same thing I can't speak for what concerns people have but knowing how divisive certain subjects are like abortion like Israel Palestine I would imagine that a lot of feelings would be invoked on either side of the political aisle if we came to something like those flags that are divisive no matter what side of the aisle you stand on Claire I'm sorry I really Spector work and everything that the solicitor's office does but it does sound like you both wrote this or someone wrote this ordinance with a political intent in mind and therefore it sounds like we are silencing Free Speech thank you Mr chair you're not silencing Free Speech a person can stand in front of City Hall all day long with the flag they want to hold on the sidewalk all we're saying is can the city hall property be used as a mechanism to exert that Free Speech when there are controversial matters it most certainly can it is being used right now and much to what council sylvestri said that can always be changed if in the future you love Palestine or you love abortion or whatever it is you want to get out there to be spoken about the city can decide that's what they want to do we're just saying as a mechanism by which speech can be displayed that's what this ordinance is addressing it's not addressing content in any way shape or form except to say we are going to allow the the the pride flag and the Jun flag in mil AR Flags other than that the city will decide what speech it wants to display on that flag pole by either Council resolution a mayoral Proclamation because it's our flag we have a right to speech as well we being the city not just us in this room councilor greenos thank you Mr chairman I want to thank you um Mr capy for all the work that you did on this and I do agree we will be saving we will be saving the city a lot lawsuit because there are a lot of controversial issues that would come up that Flags would may want to be displayed and we wouldn't want to be known as the city that displayed certain Flags so I I I agree with this and I'm happy um you and Claire did all the work with us that's the political part of it and I understand councilor Yo's concerns because there may be a flag you love and want up there there may be a flag you hope never gets waved but that's why it was open to the public and when Boston decided it was going to reject the Christian flag and Boston's defense was they thought it would have been a violation of the establishments Clause of the Constitution recognizing a particular religion the appeals court agreed with that but the S the Supreme Court did not Supreme Court said nope you're you're sing singling out a religion not to speak when you've allowed many others to speak that is uncon that's a violation of the First Amendment right and what councelor Kelly had said really resonated with me because do we really want to be known as atheists or do we want to be known as devil lovers and and if it goes up as on the city pole we it's representing the city we we can't do that well that's that's the confusion does it represent the city or is it a form for public speech if it becomes out a poll it represents what the city wants in terms of speech if it's open to the public then anyone has the right to to to to Hoist the flag right but what you said was you can hold the flag outside City Hall and we can't stop you if you're putting it on city property it's on city property correct that's the that's one of the big distinctions and the city property can be used as a public forum for speech or not and right now we've had a policy where we've allowed it as did Boston in other towns and cities in the area for years so now the now that the Supreme Court came down with this decision which could subject the municipality to a lawsuit from a disgruntled or a disapproved flag uh group or person this was a way to prevent that from happening by just giving it into the hands and control of the city itself council president cogliandro thank you Mr chairman um I don't know how many more ways Mr capes could explain this um I will be supporting this uh I I think it's it's good that it's coming here initially I didn't like that it was coming to the council but I do like it to come here because we do represent the community and people will be able to reach out to us and tell us how they feel and you know I would like to be here if we could stop the Evista Flags which is the New York Giants I don't want that hanging at all so thank you councelor sylvestri thank you Mr uh chairman for the leeway um and I I think we're we're possibly setting a precedent that that we may and I I used the the the um example I did of of future someone changing it um it today it's the flags that we support but down the line if they change it to flags that we don't I think that's where we're getting into the the fact of setting a precedence and why bring it to us is is the question if if the if the mayor and its hate speech listen if the Nazis come and want to raise a flag I don't think anyone's going to allow the Nazis to raise the flag um um but besides hate and in in in that type of speech I I don't think we should be setting a precedent or blocking any type of flags that's just my opinion thank you just say that you're the legislative body so you guys ultimately decide that this is a legis this is a policy to be made by by this body um did and just if you choose to do all Flags no Flags councilor Zano's Amendment or not whichever you choose if you want to let every single person raise every single flag it should be codified in an ordinance so we can protect our butts and say see this is our policy we're not making a willy-nilly decision so whatever you do decide it should be codified in some way oh J right name and address for the record andell 70 schol Street R Mass this ordinance makes me feel very very uncomfortable I see what they're doing in the UK people are being arrested for Facebook posts and I really really am very concerned that we're moving in that direction I mean speech is really hard and it should make us think and it should challenge us and it should make us think differently and we're moving closer and closer to censorship on a government level and it is really quite frightening and I think we need to keep that in mind thank you thank you councilor zambuto thank you Mr chairman Anthony zambuto 87 High Street I believe this is my motion I apologize for just getting here but uh stuck in traffic um I didn't hear all that went on I heard somebody say something about political my motion has nothing to do with politics at all I'm asking for the American flag the state flag and all military Flags nothing else now if that's political I don't know where it comes from because it isn't it it just eliminates what somebody said about the Nazi flag or you or or stuff like that I think it's simple and and that's why I put it in that's what I'm looking for the American flag the state flag and any military flag of any kind and that's it so that's my motion and that's why I put it in and it had nothing to do with any politics or I would have been putting up uh you know whose flag so so to be clear councilor zambo your Amendment would mean that those are the only Flags flown and we would not allow any flags up the city pole okay um because and in and and my point is that that there was somebody trying I well I I shouldn't say somebody tried there was a rumor that somebody somebody didn't more to let a Christian flag be put up and that's when I took a look at this and I said well I would like the Christian flag put up but there might be some Flags I don't like put up uh and and I think the fairest way is to do it limit it to what we're supposed to be doing put the oh I I didn't I left out the city flag I apologize but I think everybody knew that anyway so it's the American flag the state flag the city flag and any military flag thank you thank you councelor Kelly thank you for the leeway um I think that speaks to councelor haro's point when he said um the decision-making process then regarding each particular flag that burden will be on the city council and thereby it could be seen as the city council making a political statement and doing something that councilor zambuto is proposing would eliminate that and again it's not that if you want to raise a flag in front of City Hall if you want to have a a protest if you want to have a demonstration or uh a celebration or anything like that that's fine it would just be limiting that the only flags that would be allowed on the city's flag poles would be the United States flag Commonwealth city of rier and the various military Flags um that would keep us out of that area where we may be be seen as making political statements um on each particular request that comes before us um so I am in support of that thank you Council Haram thank you Council Kelly that that's correct I don't um I wasn't speaking to your Amendment councelor Zeno um no that's okay I was speaking to the ordinance presented by the mayor's office not your yeah not not your Amendment so uh just to clarify that I think just to be clear the solicitor's office is separate from the mayor's office um well it does say here a communication from the director of equity and inclusion which as my understanding of the uh organizational uh structure of this city does work under the purview of the mayor's office so I I apologize if I hav misspoke but I I want to clarify I'm sorry I'm going to reclaim my time at this point Claire thank you um I just wanted to clarify that um yeah that wasn't towards you and I I appreciate that um thank so if I can I'd like to ask a question of Mr capy certainly Mr chairman say would do we were to adopt uh councilor Zeno's uh amendment I personally enjoy uh the celebrations out in front of City Hall if would we be in the same predicament I know when during the celebrations the city provides chairs tents a sound system um would we be able to continue that and still not get into trouble if we didn't want to provide those things to other groups the best of my understanding yes you could you could continue it we could continue and if the city decided it wanted to celebrate pick a holiday or a day and wanted to have chairs put up and speak at it absolutely okay and if another group uh came along that maybe we didn't share their ideology uh they could take it upon themselves to stand on the sidewalk in front of City Hall and sure and do their thing sure okay I don't think of it so much as a bridging Free Speech as I do as thinking expanding the city's free speech to to decide what it wants to display as a manner of public speech okay thank you any councilors have any further questions chairman has requested that councelor zamb bu's Amendment be taken up at this time it reads as follows strike section 1.11 100 C and insert in its entirety and insert in place thereof new section 1.10.1 100 c c at the discretion of the mayor the following Flags relative to the United States armed forces and Military may be flown by the city in place of the city of Rivier flag one flags of the various branches of military services of the United States of America Two the blue star service flag three the official Mia POW flag and section two insert a new section 1.10.1 100d as follows the city's flag polls are not intended to serve as a form for free expression of the public on councelor on the Amendments presented by councelor zambuto councel greo SAA yes yes councelor hero yes yes councel Kelly yes yes councel sylvestri no no and chairman Areno yes yes the amendment has been approved now roll call excuse me and this would be this is not g to a public hearing so you would say roll call on taking the uh a mo motion as amended to public hearing councilor greo SAA yes yes councel hero no no councelor Kelly yes yes councelor sylvestri no no and chairman Areno yes yes the uh ordinance as amended will be forwarded to the full city council this evening with a recommendation to be ordered to a public hearing thank you Mr chairman point of personal privileg please sure um I I just want to make it clear the reason I I said no to that vote was because exactly what my explanation was we brought this motion to the floor in hopes of doing one thing and then someone got it and changed it to fit theirs and now down the road someone else can change it to fit theirs and and we just kind of made a mess of things that's how I see it but that's that's really how I'll leave it and that's it thank you councelor and last item on tonight's agenda Council order 24221 communication from the Veterans Services relative to an ordinance establishing regulations for Veterans Memorial polls good evening Claren Zillo 281 Broadway um before I hand it off to Julia and Donna from our veteran service office I wanted to flag a small correction you all received a memo outlining some of the Amendments for this Memorial poll's ordinance and I'll I'll read this very slowly cuz I get confused also the very last bullet point on your memo outlines that we should insert new subsection C I forgot that I had a second page on mine so it actually is a new subsection C but there's still a d and an e so we would just relet Ashley knows where the Rel lettering goes I'm not sneaking anything in I'm just flagging that subsection C is actually inserting before a already existing DN that was left off off of the page so I'm going to hand it off to Donna and Julia for any questions you guys have Council has any questions comments hi I'm Julia BSO so have I trust that you've all read it if you I'm really here just to answer any questions anybody have any questions okay how does this deviate from what we we currently do or does it deviate very much yes um so the two main uh deviations are we W with Bron star we're adding with Valor so it you have to have a bron star with Valor not just a bron star the other deviation is um the gold stars that go on the poles moving forward we would like to only put that on the poles of gold star family members service members who died in action so those are okay explain the bronze part of it to me again the bronze okay so there's a there's a huge distinction between a bronzear and a bronzear with Valor um and at the public he I can also email out um service members have who have received both dictating the difference between the two so that you can see the difference between the two um trying to think of a good example so mark would probably have come up with a excellent example so a bron sty would vows for heroics in combat uh bronze star you could get for um being like an an E6 and supporting your unit through a deployment right um so you'd be given a bronze star for making that Mark um with the Valor is is exploit in uh combat so I so you would still get a memorial poll you just wouldn't get the no you would not you would not get a if you only have a bronze star and you and you um don't have the CIB you wouldn't qualify so a radio man who picks up the radio during war and then a man who he radios to goes in combat and gets fired at they would both get bronze Stars the one who got took Fire gets the bronze star with Valor the one who picked up the radio and to just I mean not to say just but did his job undercover in no danger would get a bronze star does that help a little bit it does so in other words just being a veteran does not qualify and what about uh killed an action you would qualify okay I apologize I didn't go through it as as best as I should have okay anyone else have any questions would 20 years of service still qualify you um 20 years of service active yes uh we do no okay is that okay councelor or would you want to make an amendment too yes okay good M inella would you want to I do want to flag your question about deviation from the standard there is no standard this is an entirely new chapter putting in these rules and regulations that we don't have on file right now okay thank you there are some amendments that Claire had oh um Donna dreon 249 I Broadway veteran services I just want to to um bring something bring to your attention something um that we encounter in the office and I wanted to show you an example of two photos this is Charles mcmackin who was killed in action this is Steven Dron Vietnam vet so the way it is now he could get a poll what we're trying to say is he really shouldn't get a poll he shouldn't get a memorial but this guy of course has the distinction of getting a pole with a star there are 350 decorated polls right now in the city 221 are actual gold star so we're trying to preserve the Dignity of these signs and the polls because when you go around the city it looks like Cookie Cutters they all start to look the same and they really shouldn't so I just wanted to give you that visual Mr Mr thank you councilor sylvestri um and I I agree and and I I I I kind of love the idea of cleaning it up and and and making it so it's it's presentable but I'm I thought the only change that would have been different prior was the gold star and I was I was in favor of that what I dispute a little bit is I thought we did bring it in front of the council um and I thought we said that it would be combat veterans combat veterans or 20 years of service would get you one and then the veteran service office officer after me came up and presented the change for the gold star um so I I just the the idea of not having anything on the books and not and then changing it for the 20year veteran is is an issue that I have but I I I I see where they're going with this cuz I I believe the the polls were out of control at one point people that served in the military for 2 years they have a poll out there somewhere so I see where this is going but I do think a 20year distinction is something that is is is is a mark where you can retire from the service and and once passed I I do think you deserve that honor of of getting a poll but that's just me I'm I'm the other people running the office thank you okay thank you any further comments I vote to move this to public hearing there were some amendments presented by uh CLA and zerel um did you want to take a those amendments prior to ordering the original language to a public hearing yes okay section one establishing chapter 12.22 Veterans Memorial polls is hereby amended by inserting new subsection D to section combining the language of subsection C of section 12. 22.30 with the language of subsection B and subsequently Rel lettering subsection D into subsection C and then subsection B is hereby deleted in its entirety from section a and deleting subsection C in its entirety from section 12.22 and inserting in place thereof the new subsection C upon an affirmative vote by the city council in subsequent signature by the mayor the Veteran Affairs office shall consult with relevant City staff to determine the memorial poll location and the date of the ceremony and lastly inserting a new subsection C to section 12.22.63 Insignia of a gold star shall be reserved for Memorial polls which honor service members of gold star families as defined herein on those amendments on those amendments all in favor all right roll call on the motion as amended to go to a public hearing Council Gino SAA yes yes councel hero yes yes Council Kelly yes yes Council sylvestri yes yes and chairman agenzio yes yes uh the ordinance received a favorable recommendation to be ordered to a public hearing as amended no further business no further business meeting adjourned e