e does my screen work okay thanks guess I don't have something to hit all right we're going to go ahead and get started welcome to the July 10th 2024 meeting of the r Conservation Commission for those that would like let's stand and pledge allegiance to the flag is the zoom up and running Lena okay okay all right so we're going to do a roll call uh Nicholas Rudolph here Bernardo here Wilson here Brian here John is here so we have five we have a quorum all right first St is review and approval of the meeting minutes from June 4th 2024 are there any comments additions deletions I'll make an approval to uh I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes second all in favor I all right minutes are approved so before we go too deep uh I just kind of want to go over the agenda uh really quick so we have a notice of intent come first up 42 Arcadia D did not issue a file number so we will open the hearing but it'll have to be continued to next month uh we have a notice of intent for a water line from MW D did Issue a file number but the commission has not visited that site yet so at the end we're going to ask for a continuation request for determination of applicability for an expansion of uh the driving Lanes at the Wonderland Station Parking Garage they did not post their legal notice so that is uh not tonight that'll be next month we also have a request for determination of applicability of brown circle rotary to address uh the oil spill that happened there several years ago uh we're going to have a presentation by LEC environmental Consultants there's no application before the commission so it's just a a presentation by them and a conversation has to be done in a public setting we're going to go to enforcement and then we have another request for determination for 127 Oak Island certificate of compliance uh request for extension so the only two things that are on the agenda where we would seek public input are going to be the first two items the two notices of intent um all right so first up is a notice of intent from Mark Rondon and Lauren Rondon at 42 Arcadia Street uh they want to add crushed stone and top soil to level out their backyard to reduce flooding so I'm going to go ahead and open the hearing so you want to introduce yourself your name and address and turn your mic on there you go my name is mclen Rondon my wife here La in Rondon it's to the back of 42 Arcadia Street we have a c flooding issue that takes place there um so what we're trying to do to alleviate it um on the notice tent intent is to put some crushed stone at the bottom to even allow water at the bottom if the water table raises at least is place for the water to go but also put some like a fabric the weed block fabric on top and then put some 2 in of top soil and use some sod on top of that so that's pretty much how we want to go about it to try to lift the yard because we are much lower than all the other surrounding surrounding property and and how big of an area is your backyard it's it's pretty small yeah pretty small pretty small but you guys came and take a look at it we're looking at about say 28 ft by about 20 24 ft around that area so it's not going I don't think it um with what we intend to do not going to water not going to go into anybody else's property at least we still have a place for the water to get you know under move below with with the stone at the bottom there we're using like about 3/4 clean Stone and the top so we're going to put on it's clean top soil also along with the sod that we buying um we'll be getting from those any questions from the Commissioners so Bernardo you were there Saturday uh yes I was um we we check uh the side um they have been um they have been uh having problems with uh floring and and the backyard so they want to level uh the the area so they can use the the B so that's basically what we saw last Saturday okay any other Commissioners have any comments or questions wasn't there but it won't be like any impact like now the water you put it and the water will go to the other neighbors like this it won't be higher than the neighbors no it would be the same level as same level as the neighbors but that's why even putting stone at the bottom instead of just packing it with dirt all the way down so at least if the water table increases at least there's some place for the water to move at the bottom there and not just pack it with dirt so it will displace the water it wouldn't it wouldn't really displace the water as much as lift the yard where it is you won't have all that water in the backyard yeah you you can't walk out there now without sinking down six 10 in correct uh so all right if there's no questions from the Commissioners then I'll open it up to the public or anyone via Zoom if they want to speak for or against this project Angela Gino SAA Ward five counselor I have no problem with this project I think it would um retain the water and make it better for everybody else in the neighborhood thank you thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak for or against this project is there anyone on Zoom so hearing none I'm going to close the hearing if you guys are okay I need a motion to close the hearing make a motion to close the hearing second all in favor all hearing's closed you can any discussion it seems pretty straightforward okay I missed something all right um so we would need a motion to approve their notice of intent issue an order of conditions I'll make a motion to approve the noi I'll second it all in favor I I all right so it probably be Monday before you get that and then you have to wait 10 business days and then you can go record it and then do your project okay oh if you bring those up for Linda sorry I should have asked oh or Lena all right thank you guys uh next up is a notice of intent DP file number 061-0293 so I'm going to go ahead and open the hearing for this and good evening uh my name is p Grasso I'm a program manager with the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority uh and I'm the project manager on the oh sorry and I'm the section I'm the project manager on the section 56 waterline replacement project um I'm going to go we have a presentation uh that we're going to go through and I'm I'm going to go through the first couple of slides and then I'm going to uh have uh our permiting specialist to go through the rest of the slides for you guys okay so next slide so for those of you who are UNF familiar with the MW and I'm sure most of you are uh we're I state agency and uh and we provide water and wastewater services to 3.1 million people and 61 communities throughout the state uh we provide 200 million gons a day to 53 communities and we also collect you know 350 million gallons per day of waste water that just treated a der Ison next please so the section 56 water pipeline project so that the existing pipeline was installed in 1934 so it's you know 90 years old uh and it runs up the Linway uh and used to cross over the J lwoods Bridge uh and into Lyn to feed the communities up north uh it also feeds uh uh supplies water to the the city of Riv so back in 2018 we had to take the section that was on the G Bridge off cuz it was just tooo corroded and the and the bridge is in such bad shape uh so if you look at the the map uh it's basically at the uh the mouth of the sagus river you know uh the point of pines and then it continued over on the other side into Lin so when we complete this project that will reconnect those lines and we'll be able to supply water uh up through into ly to the other communities uh and it will also uh uh you know help with the water quality and and water issues in in prever next slide please so as it is now the pipeline dead dead ends at the bridge um so when we complete this project that will make that connection and that would eliminate that dead end uh when you have a dead end like that it can create water quality issues because water's not flowing um and so so this project is crucial to protecting you know the public environmental health uh it also provide a redundancy uh for fire flows uh because if we happen to ever have a break down uh the southern portion of section 56 um you know down by that meter 106 uh we have no way to uh pump water up and around back down into R to supply uh the city uh so once we do that once we make that connection back we'll be able to do that uh and this will also increase the water pressure in the area in the community and it will improve the water quality also uh so this project uh we hope to bid this coming up in the fall uh and get a Contractor on board uh January 2025 so we have the project scheduled so the work would start on the lind side of the project we will be doing the connection down Hansen Street uh that will go through uh the spring the winter and the spring of 2025 and then we're going to come over to uh the Rivera side probably in October of 2025 uh we're trying to schedule it that way so we we're not there uh interrupting the sumary activities you know with our construction you know that's going on there there so we're trying to schedule everything kind of in the off seon uh so we'll come over in October we'll do the uh portion going up rice Avenue which is a short section of pipe we should be able to install pretty quickly uh get that done you know by Christmas and then in January of uh 2026 that's when we'll do the horizontal directional drill across the river um so with that I'm going to hand it over to uh our pering specialist consultant Kate good evening commission my name is Kate schassler here with aom and MW also with us are Jim Sullivan our project manager Jennifer dbr our senior technical adviser and Julie Sullivan who is the project manager at M for the environmental permitting whole cast of characters for you tonight okay so sort of picking up we can go to the next slide where Peter left off section 6 56 is 90 years old and is a 90in cast iron pipe sorry 9 years old and is a 20in diameter cast iron pipe for the majority of its length this project is to replace the portion that previously crossed the sagus river via the general Edwards Bridge via a method called horizontal directional drilling uh this is a trenchless method of pipeline installation particularly suited to installing pipeline around ground obstructions and minimizing surface impacts additional pipeline will be installed in rice Avenue in rier and then Hansen Street in Lin to connect the HDD portion of the pipeline to the EXA existing section 56 which is in route 1A prior to arriving at the project as we're presenting it today the MW evaluated a number of replacement Alternatives which I'll touch on in a little bit we can go to the next slide I have an overview figure which we also have available full size if anyone wants to come take a look at in person um this shows the extent of the project rever being in the upper left hand corner on this figure where you can see we have an htd exit staging area this is where the pipe will be emerging from the ground and then we have a limit of work for the open trench pipeline installation in rice a and then of course where it will connect to the existing section 56 next slide please here is a diagram that illustrates how horizontal directional drilling works um if we're looking at it now we can see that on the right side of this image is where this pre-assembled pipe will be laid out that will happen in linnn where there's plenty of space and on the left is kind of where the pipe will be pulled through once the pilot hole has been drilled and enlarged um and again emerging in the exit pit um again this was a method developed to avoid impacts to the surrounding environment um and for the majority of its length the pipeline will be 40 ft below the seafloor of the sagus river next slide please so a bit more detail the cut and cover pipe will be 24 in and will be installed within RAV the trenchless installation via HDD will be 2800 linear feet in total of 30in water pipeline uh 735 linear feet will be in rier specifically and all of the construction work in Rivier will occur within paved areas or in the Linway median which is where the current section 56 runs under so of course we need to tie into that somehow next slide please a couple images that show existing conditions at the site the top image is of the the median I just mentioned and then the lower image is of rice Avenue Facing East towards the point of Pines yach Club next slide please and then the HDD exit pit will be cited in the point of Pines Yacht Club parking lot here are a couple IM of the parking lot as it exists today next slide here is a diagram showing the nine different Alternatives that were um developed in a 2017 feasibility analysis um the the project as we propose it today is the orange line that's marked Route 7 and you can see pretty well on the screen there I think next slide please with regard to the Wetland resource area impacts this table indicates the temporary resource impacts we um proposed to rever um the entire project area is in land subject to Coastal storm Flowage so no getting around that portion of the open cut excavation and the HDD staging area is in the riverfront 20 200t Riverfront area and then again the whole point of Pines Peninsula is mapped as barrier Beach so we will have impacts to that following construction the only surface impacts will be three atg grade manholes each will be in existing paav surfaces so there will be no net increase in impervious surface because of this project next slide please touching briefly on performance standards um happy to get into these into more detail but for the sake of time they're all here they're all in the noi um there are none for land stoped to Coastal storm flow Edge the 2ot riverfront area is broken down into four categories of which we we meet each of them um again I'm happy to go into more detail but we can keep moving to the next slide for now uh Coastal duneberry Beach system um right now the entire entirety of the project site in Barry Beach system is impervious surface where we'll be working um so we're not going to be creating any new impervious surface there and with regard to land underwater bodies and waterways this also is broken into four categories and because this project will entail no impacts to the sagus river itself um we meet each of these categories next slide please this is a figure that illustrates our project limit of work overlaid on the different Wetland resource areas in the vicinity of the project site uh it's kind of small on the screen but we have this in full size if anyone wants to come see it and the audience heard from the commission the orange rectangle is the point of finds Yacht Club parking lot which is our exit staging area where the exit pit will be and then there's a blue dotted line which is the installation within RAV which will be open cut excavation next slide please a similar figure that just shows the um land subject to Coastal storm Flowage or the FEMA 100-year flood plane of which we are entirely in next slide and then this third figure shows nhsp estimated in priority habitats of which we um will have no impacts to um we are adjacent to this area but designed the project explicitly to avoid impacts to this habitat so no impacts there next slide please so drilling back down into impact avoidance um the selected installation method which is HDD avoids any open cut impacts across the sagus river so this results in no expected impacts on the hydrology of the river there will be an archaeology archaeologist present during construction within rice AV that's the open cut construction as I mentioned no impacts to the estimated and priority habitat and no work will be done on the undeveloped sandy beach front next slide for impact minimization again HDD is a great choice for minimizing sedimentation erosion and environmental impacts to the sagus river the selected route route 7 also minimizes neighborhood and traffic impacts and impacts to the barrier Beach additionally the MW is committ to continuing to work with community and stakeholders to minimize traffic and seasonal impacts and then next slide impact mitigation so for the impacts that we do anticipate we have developed a traffic management plan that will ensure the maintenance of Emergency Services to the point of Pines Community the HDD and rice Avenue work will be restricted to the offseason there will be erosion and sedimentation control measures installed around the site there is a Frack out plan that has been developed and will be implemented waste and trash management will be taken care of fueling will occur away from resource areas dust mitigation will occur in the form of watering down um stockpiles and again there will be archaeological oversight of the sensitive Construction in rice AV next slide and I'm getting to the end so in addition to the um noi we have filed we will also be seeking a highway department Street opening permit for the city of Riv and then if we want to go to the next slide I have up here here the project plans there are four slides in total um these we also have full size if anyone would like to come see them you can see kind of on your printouts maybe the blue line which is the riverfront area again we're partially in that any work we have in the riverfront area is in the outer 100 feet not so we're in like the edge of it and then the whole area is barrier Beach system and the whole area is um land St of coastal storm Flowage so we can just flip through the next couple project plans this is yeah oh maybe hang out here for a sec okay this is the plan that shows the HDD alignment as it goes underneath the sagus river starting in Lin and ending up in Riv as you can see um it will be 40 ft below the sagus river for the majority of its length ex excepting the Upland areas at which it does need to come out of the ground and then the next slide please and this is just a more detailed plan of the staging required for the um exit pit in the POR of Pines parking Club por of pin yach Club parking area and next slide and I believe that's all we have for tonight open to questions um for those in the audience and watching via Zoom if you would like a copy of the presentation just send an email to concom r.org requesting the presentation and we'll forward that on to you like I said uh um there'll be no decision taken tonight it'll be uh at the next meeting questions um I have some but I'll let the Commissioners go first yeah I have I have a few so um looking over the feasibility study that there were looks like nine plus options of things that you were going through I'm wondering why that was chosen uh this was chosen looking at number nine on the slide you're basically in somebody's driveway in the photo um why would you choose this one Rice have wred the yacht club when it looks like I don't know all the other ones seem like they weren't in somebody's driveway I'm sure there's got to be a reason for that so if you look at slide nine existing conditions rice Avenue it's it's somebody's driveway is your photo oh you're look talking about the pictures I thought you were talking about an alternative um I think it would be helpful if we show the uh slide with the various alignments yeah well I'm I'm talking about slide 11 for the feasibility study and slide nine for the uh pictures that you provided right and just to add that the distance like to make come that that was the longest dist distance too but yeah kind of curious yeah which one's the alignment slide I think it's Slide N Slide 11 is the uh feasibility study alignment line that one yep that's it there you the orange diagonal next to the last one is the one that they went with as opposed to any of the other lines correct and and so I could try to answer that question um my name is Jim Sullivan I'm I'm project manager with the Acom so a lot of different factors on both sides of the river contribute to you know what we triply we typically call sort of like a triple bottom line assessment of each alternative we're looking at a multitude of factors environmental impacts acts on the Lin side uh one of the things that really impacted the project is that significant development going on right now that they're going to try to move in um I think in like less than six months so you can see some of the alignments there that need to start at that location involved a different type of tunneling method it's called micr tunneling and and some of that sequencing made those Alternatives um not feasible from a a schedule perspective you know those are the on you're talking about that land in the Linway as opposed to a little bit down rice hav um the ones that really worked from a sequencing perspective were the ones that had the HDD at the end of Hansen Street and you can see where we had the green alignment we call that route three that actually was more disruptive to the point of Pine's neighborhood because now we're traversing you know three times the distance down rice Avenue um and we also needed that open space the parking lot of the point point of pine yach club and when we assess the HDD technology there there's really a small window of time that's needed when I say small window you know three to four months and in discussion with the yach club you know that was available during the winter months you know they've already approved it uh the the the MW has been working extensively with the yacht club on this sequencing what about the neighbors nearby their impact um that's going to be an open cut trench that at this point time where um um sequencing so it's it's not in the summer months it's not in the but even so I mean in the winters here I'm sure you're aware it can be absolutely brutal so it's it's obviously definitely I think we all appreciate you not doing this during the summertime near Riv Beach not ideal for you to do this but um it's also kind of brutal during winter not so much for the traffic but from people needing to get to work snow whatever um so what would be the impact in that area during those types of situations so it it would be in the section of rice AB where we have an open cut pipe uh it's traditionally you know uh um a cut and cover Construction in a in a workday where they're in trying to get a section A few sections of pipe in out and they try to avoid you know morning Rush Hour an evening rush hour it's typical construction uh hours uh it's not a it's not a long duration cuz it's not a long distance of pipe to get from the Linway to the yub um we would would be maintaining uh you know there would be a definitive requirement to maintain all emergency services and all access to every driveway in that section but it is not uncommon to when pipelines are built down a residential street to for the contractor to have to coordinate with each homeowner you know make sure that they can get everybody in and out um and then coordinate we have a you know pretty robust traffic management uh plans that have been developed to that area so and then kind of on a a different subject but still obviously um obviously you know more about water than probably most people do and one of the lines that you wrote in here was a bullet point it says it's going to improve the water quality can you get a little bit more into detail of is our water not great as it already is or what is that going to do yeah so water quality depends on the turnover of the water so if you have water that's stagnant uh you know most of the time when we are uh have pipe shut Downs if it's for more than two weeks that water is sitting there we have to disinfect it so the the fact that that water we actually bleed the water out of the end of the pipe into the river just to keep that water flowing to keep it fresh uh as much as possible so once this pipe is connected again that water will be flowing constantly and there won't be any any kind of possible issues with water quality it it's it's why they flush water mains yeah no I understand that aspect I just wanted to see if if there was maybe some sort of definitive thing that you're doing that we weren't aware of just it was a small bullet point so I just kind of wanted to um the other thing is that you said that it was 90-year-old um cast iron pipe how much of that is still left in that area or you taking all of it out no all of all of the pipe is still the 90-year-old pipe all the way down heading down uh Rivera Beach and going up north uh in the Lin it's still uh going to be the same existing 90y old pipe I don't know if we have anything in the pipeline to place that at some point but I believe I'm sure there's something in the CI CIP to replace that at some point so okay thank you Nicholas just just kind of curious he called me when you said redundancy uh for the pipe so right now the the water is running through another pipe right now and this in in case when you said redundancy to me that means it's running through one pipe if that pipe breaks you can reroute the water through this pipe is is that how does it work just kind of curious yeah so that it's called redundancy so right now uh if anything happened to the pipe heading south on the Linway past the meters where you have your meters if that broke the there's no way to get water up to the point of Hines area um in that region if it if we had that connection we could pump it around through other through other pipes uh in in the other communities and bring it back down through Lin across the bridge to feed okay um and that the other pipe that is currently running is about 90 90 year yeah thank you Nicholas considering where it is in the channel um and the water moving across there how do you plan to mitigate sediment buildup and the pressure that might be exerted on that pipe in there what kind of materials are the pipe is the pipe going to be made of also is there going to be any structural enhancement because of that sediment buildup in that channel uh so the pipe that's going to be going across the river is going to be a hdp high density polyethylene pipe um that pipe is fused together we're going to take section of that pipe and fuse it together and string it out on on on the lens side uh and pull it through um and when they do that they uh and they pull the pipe through they there's a a a bite slur that goes with it that helps lubricate to go through and that's what fills around the area around the pipe that you know controls uh that that hole that we made through so just the just because of the area that boat traffic that goes through it definitely builds up sediment there and I'm just curious if you had accounted for the weight The increased weight or pressure that might be on that pipe I just go through all this process to be have your pipe get crushed essentially that's that's kind of what I'm getting at I can answer that I mean the answer to your question is absolutely yes we account for not just the topography and the seabed FL profile that exists today but the potential increase in that and actually the the worst case cover on the pipeline that we've designed is not in the channel itself because that's the minimal cover above the pipeline it's actually closer to the Lin side where we might have doubled the overburden so we had to design a pipe for the worst case any other questions from the Commissioners so um when you have the the drillin and all of the material coming out it will be to the Lan side we won't see like any trucks in the rier side everything will be through the Lan side or um during during the drilling operation there is actually material that can come out on both sides of the river um the way this system works it's it's a multi-pass system they'll they'll drill an initial pilot hole that might be 6 in in diameter and then they keep upsizing it slightly to make sure that they can maintain that opening uh throughout so they there will be you know that same rig might move back and forth um all the material that comes out is containerized um it's characterized and and it will be uh trucked off site for you know appropriate disposal um there will be some you know small amount of trucks that will be hauling material away during business hours from the riv side any other all right so just go through my questions uh the length of the cut and cover pipe roughly on the rever side how long is that how long it's less than 1,000 ft I think around 800 yeah I think it's around 800 and it it's also going to be HTP or are you going to transition to cast or Steel all right um so I had a question about materials cathodic protection but I don't think plastic needs that you answered about displaced soil um you talked about Frack out so are you going to do explain Frack out so I can explain that um during the H the horizontal directional drill drilling process um they keep the excavated uh hole open with a bent night slurry um and you're trying to equalize the pressure that exists with the water you know the Marine the ocean water above um there are circumstances in past projects where you might get what's called an inadvertent loss of of drilling fluid that rises to the surface um this technology is very mature uh today you know it's been in it's been utilized to build these kind of Crossings um for decades upon decades and nowadays they have uh a lot of tools to make sure that that Frack out doesn't occur but as an extra belt and suspenders we have already developed a draft uh Frack out management plan it's really like the investigation the monitoring the the work plan procedures and then when the contractor wins their bid they have to provide some very specifics on you you know what kind of uh uh control a Frack out they're going to implement what kind of monitoring and and and those kind of procedures and that's a requirement in the contract so that's what Frack out is to so I don't think that was included in the noi the Frack out plan oh the plan no not the Frack out management plan I don't believe so yeah I mean that can be supplemented we could get a copy of that um so you are going to have material that you're going to remove you're going to collect it it's going to go off site you're not going to dewater it or anything on site um I I wouldn't classify it as dewatering but there might be some uh containerized processing because they might want to they do typically clean the uh bent night slurry you know so they don't reuse dirty slurry when they keep doing the passes um but any water any material could go in separate directions after containerized you know offsite but but it' be in a container going somewhere exactly not on the ground exactly not back in the river um what what about the trucking through the neighborhood is that going to be a constant thing or is that a small happens every now and then or yeah very very small and intermittent um and and it's typically when you know the containers are full uh and and the characterization of the material has come back and now they're authorized to discharge it it might be like you know four to five trucks on a particular day so I do I think the process is a you know good process of what you're doing my big thing is the neighborhood and the impact on them um it's not going to be anything that's you know environmentally something people wouldn't want to have around that would be in those trucks it's basically just rock is that pretty much it it's actually Marine clay Marine Clay is the predominant material yeah yeah it's an inert material there's nothing contaminator has this with it thank you um so the habitat was for plovers plowers plovers okay and we're out of that all together correct on the drilling how big does the hole get drilled before you start pulling the pipe through um we we that's typically a contractor choice because the the 30-in pipe is the pipe specified for hydraulic purposes we anticipate it being about 4 feet up to 4 feet in diameter uh and as Peter had mentioned the annular then gets filled with bent knite okay SP between the pipe and the all right I think those are all my questions so I'm going to if you guys have no more questions I'm going to get some initial input from the public um go to zoom first anyone on Zoom no all right is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on behalf of the project is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak in opposition to the project all right state your name and address please Mr chairman thank you Hugo rudo 265 Rice have I'm speaking in opposition to the project in actuality I'm not opposing the project I'm opposing the method at which MW has decided to bring this pipe across from Lynn to Rivier okay the pipeline that they proposing is a redundant system they already have a pipeline which feeds the N Shore this is a secondary pipe it's not critical they do need it but not essential okay the pipeline that's there that they removed back in 2018 it was again 90 years old it was really you know rusted out technology back in 1934 is way way behind to where we are today we're light years away in today's technology that's why I have a problem with them drilling underneath the sagus river and removing 35,000 cubic feet of Riverbed I have no idea what's underneath there that is going to affect the environment gigantically okay I I think there are other options that they can utilize to get this pipe across from ly to Rivier I think the option of going over the under the bridge is a is a reasonable option I looked at the eight proposal option that they that they have the one going over the river underneath the bridge they kind of pushed it aside for some ridiculous um ridiculous ideas that they had if you look at their uh uh under their page uh page five of their proposal it said it wasn't it was not possible to cross the pipeline underneath the bridge because of environmental factors they're concerned about severe weather okay see we have weather impacct in a pipe we haven't had severe weather in R since the Blizzard of 78 really to speak of but even if we had severe weather if we had a hurricane if we had an earthquake if we had some severe severe weather we can build a pipeline we've gone to the Moon we you know technology today is like years ahead okay they can certainly build a pipeline that can go underneath the bridge okay and sustain any kind of severe weather if you look at their chart the where they had all the lines going this way and that way and every which way okay and you look at the environmental risk factor they're saying the MW is saying that the risk factor or drilling a 4T hole underneath the riverbed is is less impactful than putting a pipeline underneath the underneath the bridge I I simply cannot conceive or understand how that is less impactful to the environment okay would it make sense for them to have them answer that question well no I'm just saying that we they're here so they can respond at a later date you know it's just that I I don't understand uh you know if you take a pipeline and you put it underneath the bridge or you take and you take 35,000 cubic feet of Earth underneath the river I don't know the animals that were this you know the creatures that underneath the river that we are affecting by digging this gigantic hole under there we're talking 40 ft under the riverbed yeah it's it's 4 feet in diameter 40 ft under underneath underneath the riverbed and then coming up on the beach and into the parking lot okay so it's got to disturb our environment somehow I'm sure it's disturbing so I want to go back to the bridge though so you're saying they should hang a new pipe under the bridge I I think they should recognizing the bridge is I walked under it let me let me let me explain the bridge the the reason they do not want to use the bridge is because the bridge is due to be replaced in 2028 y and I understand that and the way the B the bridge is going to be built is that they're going to put a temporary Bridge next to it it would be very easy for them to run a pipe right up to the bridge go along the temporary bridge when the new bridge is built just move the pipeline back to the new bridge yeah and continue that way so the new bridge is going to be much taller it's a lot more pumping energy to Pump It To The Top I I understand that and and that is the reason why the pipeline should go underneath the new bridge I I think that is a primary reason as to why it should go there in any case uh again uh I I think there's a factor here that you know they're looking for a quick approval okay they're looking at the path of least resistance and the path of least resistance is to get the quick approvals get this project done and move on I want them to build that pipeline just as much as anybody else I do I like fresh water you know I think infrastructure improvements are great but not at the cost of the environment I think you seriously I I hope you would consider to take a look at other options as to how we can minimize the impact to the environment I and that is my position on that but but you're stating though the impacts to the environment are 40 ft under the seabed under the rivered that's what you're concerned about is exactly 40 ft underneath impacts to the environment and killing of whatever life is it's coming it's going down they're going to be removing 30 on the other side and I know you're not concerned about Lynn but on the other side they're going to be removing 30 piles they're going to clean up that whole area go down come across and then come up on the on this side into the parking lot okay and I understand it's 80 ft down but however there are creatures that live below the ground unless there's nothing under there if it's just rock and there's nothing and we're not bothering anybody then it's fine but I think that we are going to be bothering somebody when they come up out of the river coming up onto the beach and coming onto the parking lot so I don't think they come on the beach they're underneath well as you come up into the parking lot as you come up into the parking lot you're certainly going to be disturbing underneath the sand dunes and you're certainly going to be disturbing underneath the the beach front the low tide areas so thank you very much okay thank you so so it does give me a question for MW have you done any borings to see what is there yes we've done an extensive boring program there about two years ago um I think we did over 27 borings how how far down did you go um a lot of them were you know on the land weren't too deep they were you know anywhere from 10 ft to 8 ft but the ones we did on the riverbed were uh pretty deep because we had to find out what the geological conditions were where we're going to be putting the pipe so they were probably 60 70 ft down so do is that geological report available um it is we we do have it it's pretty extensive but there was like there's a um uh a like a preamble to it that kind of gives an overview instead of have it's literally like full volumes thick so um uh and to address Mr ruto's concerns we really um we really appreciate that he has concerns about it um uh and obviously he's done his homework and reviewed a lot of things um but you know we we don't think that there is going to be any uh kind of impacts to any kind of aquatic creatures when we're going to be 40 ft below the riverbed we it's basically clay and and some cobbles there's I don't think anything really uh lives down that deep um and you know the HDD is that's one of the reasons it's such a a good um construction method and and trenchless Technology itself is it limits the impacts because you basically go you have an entrance point and an exit point and you go as deep as you can and go underneath everything and so really the only impacts to the surface where the pipe comes in and out so um I I know he had uh uh suggested that we try and put the the pipe on the new bridge so the new bridge is actually going to be a permanent Bridge it's not going to be temporary so they're going to put it in parallel that's going to be I believe that's going to be permanent um and you know to put a uh he suggested doing a temp pipe across the old bridge until that new bridge was built um you know I've been in touch with Mast do about the project they're going to advertise in 2028 but you that bridge would probably not be completed till around 2023 20 2033 2034 you it could be you know 10 years from now when they get that done and to put a temporary pipe across that uh structurally deficient bridge I mean I don't know about you guys but I I do it Hill on MAR every time I drive over that thing but um you know to put a pipe across that bridge for that amount of time to supply water is just really not feasible um and the fact that it's a drawbridge so you can't really put a fixed pipe across the bridge that you know can go up and down H how did they do it before though I mean the pipe was on the drawbridge before how how did they do it then right so there's it goes to the drawbridge and then there's a siphon that goes underneath and that that was abandon we took the pipe off so there's no there's no other way that's why we and and we've done an extensive uh evaluation as you seeing of all uh all the Alternatives and and you know we believe the one that we we selected and moving forward with you know really uh you know balances the environmental concerns and and the concerns of uh the community so so one last question and I'll go back to the to the audience um the most northern route the the the magenta line if you can go to my screen so that most northern route so what were the issues of that one which one sorry the one that's top of the page oh the uh magenta one yeah it's not the northern one it's the West most western one um I think we we're running into a lot of wetlands issues over there especially in that Marsh area um uh and there's a you know development that was going on over there so um I'm not really sure exactly why that one was Jim um Jennifer Doyle brain from aom just to add what to what Peter's saying is north of the bridge in the area of the magenta line is also of critical environmental concern so that was an area that was obviously desired to be avoided because it's acknowledged as being in a more important habitat area and um since I'm standing here too if I could just add one thing too for the commission's consideration in terms of the environmental impacts and impacts to the area 40 ft below the seabed um I just wanted to point out that we did go through the meepa process with the secretary of environmental Affairs and as part of that process EA um the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs agreed that the alternative we had chosen was the least environmentally impactful alternative and as part of that process D commented in meepa um division of marine fisheries commented as well and neither of them raised any concerns with any um organisms living in 40 ft below the SE do you need any other permits like Army Corps oh we do I was also going to comment on that I think there was a comment that we're trying to get a quick approval so first of all I think the feasibility study was in 2017 right so that was a number of years ago and so then we went through meepa we um that took about two years I think to get through meepa and now we're in front of you in addition of course we're going to the Lin Conservation Commission we do have to go to the um US Army Corps of Engineers um for approval under the general permits of Massachusetts we also have an application into D for 401 Water Quality certification um we also have an application into D for a chapter 91 license is there anything else I'm forgetting so there right that's the point it's not really this whole process certainly hasn't been quick um we've been spending a lot of time Mur and AECOM um trying to get this through a very long permitting process okay all right are there any other people in the audience that would like to speak I'd like to go back to that picture with the map with the purple you were talking about the meepa process and you were going to have issues environmental impact issues there how is it that a 291 unit building comment should be addressed to the commission how is it that a 291 unit building can go there and have no environmental impact but this would so they went through they're all the same processes they got they got a chapter 91 they got a 401 Water Quality permit they got permission from Army Corps of Engineers they got D sign off environmental impact reports meepa all of it it took them a long long time right so how would this have environmental impact and that would not I think the question is and that's putting words in their mouth is that the suest Ed route has less environmental impact than the other one all right but that that picture right there is in accurate because number one the fire station's not even in there and number two the highrise isn't in there so that well it's it's very inac I mean it's coming up at the ball field at Gibson park right um mik everything that Mr zudo had said is was one of my concerns but my main concern is what's going to happen within the neighborhood um I actually spoke to Mr Grasso today about it and I just want to be assured that everything is going to go back to normal they are going to repave the streets the way they from side to side I want to make sure that the least possible amount of traffic is taken through that neighborhood the trucking I'm afraid of they cannot be huge trucks because they cannot make the turns on Rice Avenue and I'm afraid with the children that are in the streets I mean we have a very very small um neighborhood there and it's it's very tight-knit and there's kids always in the middle of the streets and if people are going to be rerouted up and down the streets we don't have a street that goes straight up and then you're going to take a right no you have to go up down up down to get out especially where the Y Club is where where they're coming where they we're coming out into the Y Club parking lot so even if they decided to go straight and they went up Fowler Avenue they would have to take a right onto rce Avenue and if there's huge trucks they can't make that turn without impacting our Dunes which protects our homes and then they have to take another right onto bigford to get out of there then they go then they'll end up on the lenway in front of the fire station but it it's it's not as simple as like one two 3 we really have to do a complete traffic study on what we're going to do so it can impact the minimal it could be minimal impact to our residents and that's my number one concern right now I I do agree with Mr rudo that if they chose to do it underneath the bridge I think would have been easier but they chose this way I mean I don't know if there's any way of us to stop it or to change it back but if there isn't I just want them to be very cautious with what happens in that neighborhood right so from the commission's perspective we'd be looking at environmental impact and are they meeting the standards in the wetlands protection act if the project can be done and meet those standards then there's a decision if the commission feels it can't meet the standards we would look to impose conditions to make it meet the standards um normally we wouldn't get into picking options um because that process has kind of been ongoing for for several years if the commission makes a decision that uh is not liked uh there is an appeals process and if the commission gets it wrong the D can also intervene so the appeals process would be to the D and the D also has an opportunity to intervene um so you have that and then plus you have all of the other inputs into all the federal agencies uh and then the other question I had was um the drilling they going to be drilling 40 ft down you don't think that's going to impact any of the animals that are in the any of the fish any we I mean we have Dolphins washing up dead on our beach I mean what what caused that so I personally don't think drilling 40 ft will cuz you're going to be in clay and and other soils that probably if if there's stuff there it's I don't know it's bacteria that can live about oxygen so it's alien life I don't know um could there be a a spill or an accident that has an impact yes um and they would have to have plans in place you know to address that there would be floats oil response you know that that type of thing and then the trucking they all need to be covered every single one of those trucks that has whatever it has in the clay or whatever it is needs to be covered going through our streets yeah those are all conditions that can be imposed okay thank you okay so again we're not making a decision tonight if I could just make one thing to uh for the back it just says affordable housing trust fund meeting on the board if you could switch that over to Conservation Commission meeting that would be great thank you oh yeah it's AI there we go thank you um is there anyone else just the gentleman behind you Anthony Anthony P Alle 51 Arcadia Street Mr commissioner members of the board uh question about precautions for sink holes so down the road let's say 50 years the pipe gets weak and it breaks under the beach part or or by the um parking lot it's 40 40 ft deep when will they know that there's a break because if they don't know right away these things can wash out underneath and then all of a sudden you have two problems if it washes out back towards the water now you're dealing with ocean water getting into this area and clearing out and making a bigger sinkhole which would just drop anyway so I'm just curious what precautions they have to protect the Dune to protect the parking lot and how quick would they know a water break of a water break yeah I mean those are good questions um I think I know the answers but I let them respond so the hdp pipe that we're going to be using um the wall thickness is about 3 in so that pipe is pretty strong and highly unlikely that it would break so so so the issue with HTP piping is the welds right right where they actually that's where it's most likely to break where they actually fuse it together so we they before that pipe goes through underneath the river all those are inspected and tested before we pull the pipe through it's actually pressure tested and uh uh hydraulically tested but his his question was what if so just hypothetically if what he said happened what how how would you how would anyone know that that happened before it was too late um I I can't say how we would other than if if all of a sudden there was a sinkhole but I I I see the loss and pressure you would see your pumps all kick on yeah we'd see a loss of pressure in the pipeline itself um and obviously we wouldn't see it come to the surface unless it was near the you know the beach but if it was in the water we would we wouldn't see it leaking but we would know uh through a loss of pressure and uh we meter everything so we we would notice that there would be water disappearing somewhere so yeah um so there's a qaqc program for all the welding I'm sorry there's a qaqc program for all of yes yes yes absolutely cuz we again we don't want to pull that pipe through and then pressure test it and go Oh it's leaking cuz we we're pretty much done so that will be done on land before anything goes under the river so I mean I think the thing that would most likely cause the pipe to fail would be poor welds a material defect uh or an earthquake yeah yeah we'll have a we'll have a uh tight quality control on that so all right I'd just like to address uh the counselor's concerns about uh traffic uh and impacts to the community so we're we're committed to working with the community in any way we can to try and make this you know as painless as possible U we know construction is uh is not painless but we uh uh will work with them on uh you know any kind of traffic concerns we can uh again we've scheduled this so it's off peak time so you know that kind of we're trying to mitigate it as much as possible but um we'd be more than happy to meet with her and and the in the residents to encourage you to do so um Mr chair I just have a comment no I I think the gentlemen have a very valid points I think running the pipe under um the pipe under the bridge I kind of agree I agree with with you I think but I think at this point I think it is what it is I'm probably going to run from there but on page eight one something that gave me that all of the work all the construction work in R will be occur within the pav areas or Ling million so to me I hoping none of the wetlands area will be touched so I agree with you totally agree I think the under the bridge I think something that should have been discussed probably could be cost effective as well but I think it's what I decided about to your point I agree with you I think you have a very valid points but on page eight and maybe if you want to get a copy of this the construction working R will be occurred within the pav areas and the lanway lanway so to me that I feel that nothing in the enironment will be yeah so I just hoping when we agree to this work that this so we still have to do a site visit uh we're going to is there anyone else that would like to speak Zoomer yep I just want to know where they going to park all the vehicles that they're going to be doing during the construction yeah there's a parking plan yeah is there a parking plan in place yeah okay thank you so we still have to do a site walk down uh we're going to continue this hearing with your agreement until the next meeting on August 7th uh if anyone wants a copy of this presentation send an email to concom r.org if you have any other comments with respect to them project not meeting standards of the Wetland protection act uh send those along and we'll pick this back up at the next meeting um it's the Saturday before August 7th sorry I can't is that right or is it is the 27th the 27th 10 yeah yeah 10: a.m. yeah okay all right so that's to be continued all right next up and thank everyone for um for coming and taking the time uh a request for determination of applicability uh from Jeffrey litkey Brown Circle rotary these are ongoing response actions for the 2020 brown circle rotary traffic spill if you guys remember there was a a large spill of fuel at that Circle so Jeffrey you want to come up and kind of go over what you're proposing to do so they're asking for a negative determination of applicability uh yes that's correct thank you um so yes this is the proposed activities are part of ongoing uh mCP response actions related to that 2020 uh tanker rollover that resulted in a a spill of um gasoline and diesel fuel um in addition there was a an an additional tanker spill in 2021 in uh basically the same area and the context is that you know soil and uh and groundwater and surface water are uh have have have more or less recovered uh since that spill but the remaining area to um that that has not yet met cleanup levels is a sediment in the marsh channel right there near the corner of Ward Street and um Broadway and so the proposed activities are um several uh hand borings followed by the application of a a bio remediation additive and um the plan for the applying uh this this solution will be fully described in a release abatement measure that'll be submitted to mass D and will require D approval prior to the beginning of work and so we are requesting a negative determination uh of applicability based on uh 310 CMR 10.02 uh the section where uh you know minor um activities that are not that are temporary in nature and are expected to have a negligible impact excuse me um are can be considered exempt and so this is this is uh the the work to be proposed is within the buffer zone of d ma wetlands and uh and involves a small area with uh with hand hand tooling to uh dig no deeper than you know 2 to 3 feet into uh soil um in an area that's adjacent to the salt marsh Channel but is not in the salt marsh Channel itself and the um proposed additive is a um is a basically a solution of microbes so this is this is not a a chemical additive like uh is sometimes used for remedial activities where there's you know chemical oxidation is the is the process by which you're trying to um eliminate you know contaminants that are present this is uh a actually it's a hyper concentrated solution of naturally occurring microbes that have been isolated from other sites where they are present and already naturally eating away at petroleum contamination they have been isolated uh and then you know put into uh into what will be a a concentrated solution of microbes that is planned to be hand injected into the uh soil uh near the salt marsh Channel where the remaining you know petroleum impacts remain so one quick note about that is that the salt marsh channel is is considered a sensitive environmental area so there is no uh you know intrusive remediation that's allowed in this uh in this area we can't for example dig out the impacted sediment so this would be a proposed you know low impact option that is not injected directly into the channel but adjacent to the channel um would not require any mechanical Drilling and a few more notes on the on the proposed uh Amendment um it's by it's uh the manufacturer is CL solutions they have been U making these kind of green uh bio remediation options for uh for close to two decades is my understanding and the specific brand name for this amendment is uh is Muno or petrox they're uh just two different brand names for the same microbial solution the uh Muno has been approved by EPA uh for spec specifically for petroleum remediation uh in sensitive uh environmental areas and it is um as I mentioned there the organisms have been isolated from you know from from other remediation sites and just has simply been concentrated the microbes once they get to work uh there's typically about a 90-day period of Highly increased you know microbial activity where they break down uh the petroleum products into car carbon dioxide and and water um so the the um you know the byproducts of this process are are harmless um the additive is approved by EPA you know for direct injection into you know uh sensitive Wetland areas that's not our plan here um we are planning to you know inject it nearby uh the sensitive areas uh with the hope that that the um solution of of microorganisms will will will um flow via gravity uh into the into the sediments in the channel um and uh and enhance the natural uh remediation that's already happening there from uh microbial activity and the um the area is uh is is in shown on the maps included in the RDA um application and is uh basically constitutes a small area near the corner corner of Ward Street and Broadway in uh in the in a soil um Bank um near Broadway and adjacent to the salt marsh Channel and we we would not um anticipate uh you know we wouldn't need to do any work in Broadway it would be um stag from Ward Street brought by hand um over to over to the area where it's needed and one other note about the amendment is that it it comes uh Frozen this is basically a you know concentrated microbes you rehydrate it and then uh you apply that solution we anticipate you know five to six gallons of uh of the solution to be applied to each hand bore Hole uh you know eight 8 to 10 bore holes in a in a small area and this has been approved and used in Massachusetts it has for another remediation project right yep it has been approved as part of a ram plan uh by D in the past um in uh in Milford Massachusetts uh was was an example that I forwarded to the commission earlier today C can you go to my screen please so this the BJ's parking lot at the top of the screen and where we're talking about is in that green area below it right in the corner there uh along the Salem Turnpike 107 is where they would so all of storm water that washes off of this roads and highways goes untreated into that drainage ditch and into rumney Marsh yeah rumy Marsh um and so you have a lot of oils and greases just coming and asphalt coming off anyway and so they're trying to get ahead and get this all cleaned up I mean I'm not going to even try to pretend that I comprehend 90% of what you're going to be doing or talking about um with microbes and things like that I have a general idea of what you're trying to do but my concern is is that this conversation and you being here isn't going to end up in like a John Oliver type show in 20 years with all kids that have you know brain tumors because of the stuff that you used was used in one d project that you got approved by somebody who didn't know what they were doing and then you're able to say he it was approved by a d thing and then next thing you know 20 years later we're dealing with the consequences of some some microbe thing that you have that uh one person apparently approved or something that's done cuz this has happened Time After Time After Time I mean they used to think asbest was great so this item that you're talking about what is the probable chances of I don't know 10 or 15 years from now finding out that it's the next aestus and we randomly used it to pick up oils and microbes and things and that we're going to regret it like woer with the civil action movie of John jolta so just kind of um I'd like to add to that sure it are these so once once it consumes all of the petroleum products are these opportunistic microbes that are going to be able to feed on something else in the environment I mean I know we have gas stations and auto body shops over there these microbes typically feed on anything else besides petroleum products and after they're done feeding on all of the petroleum and working on the remediation part of that process C are they going to die is the colony going to die off and that that would be my concern uh yes uh well that's my understanding uh is that they uh in the studies that have been done they have about a 90-day period of enhanced microbial activity um this is a type of um aerobic uh degradation so it requires oxygen so part of the ram plan would include for example um monitoring dissolved oxygen you know before and after um the application both uh there's a monitoring well it's up radient of the proposed location and then uh surface water can be sampled in the channel itself and so you know part of the part of the details in the ram plan will be a monitoring plan for both before and after the application that'll monitor um um things like dissolved oxygen and microbial activity so you can do a plate count to see what is happening there and um um it's it's hard to it's hard to um answer a question like will this become the next um you know uh superf fund uh site like in in wuber but um you know I believe the answer is no this is these have these these products have been around for decades they've been used successfully across across the the nation um it's not a it's not a one-off um use from these we we um we have used this product uh across several sites in Connecticut um with success and and no um no uh detrimental effects that have been that have been observed and um in terms of of the actual product itself um it it it is not it is not a synthetic chemical that has been derived in a lab it is a collection of natural naturally occurring microbes that they find at you know petroleum spill sites where that are doing the the remediation work and they have isolated those strains uh grown them you know and now you know package it so to speak and so um so you know there's no reason to think that there's any sort of unknown chemical in here uh besides the microbes it's it's a it's a concentrated solution of those microbes which are naturally occurring yeah you have to weigh the long-term impacts of hydrocarbons leeching into our system versus you know adding microbes that will eat it produce water carbon dioxide it's it's deployed in a lot of areas um they're asking for a negative determination of applicability if if we say no then what they'll do is they'll come back and file a notice of intent looking for an order of conditions on applying the product um so is this the point where we discuss or is this no I'm just just just more background information I mean just this isn't a hearing it's just a this is because if we're saying we agree there's really no impact under the wless protection act under the city ordinance negative determination of applicability then they go and do their their thing if we say no can we take off the map thanks if they say no if if we say no that it is within our jurisdiction then they have to file a notice of intent okay so anything else you want to add um I don't believe so I just want it is called Petro right that's the name of Petro uh and then Muno is its other brand name but it's the same product and is made in the US right I was kind of looking at us product or I I believe so um we we are in contact with the manufactur so I can get you more information oh so they are different manufacturers no same manufacturer but we're but we're in contact with the manufacturer and you know have been for you know for uh a long time so I I can get more information on uh its origin considering the amount of things that happen in that area that have petroleum products in it from the gas stations the automotive places the service areas I think that this microbial interjection into the system would be a good thing and I I just fear that your mCP monitoring Wells are going to continue to have these microorganisms in them because of what is surrounded in that area I just how do you plan to mitigate or once you feel as though that the petroleum has been removed from the marshlands because of what's in the area how do you plan on controlling microb I I know you really can't control microbial colonies but that's one thing that I think it would it would enhance the area where it is going to be put um well I guess you know as I said we we will be monitoring uh prior and after um application we are the plan uh for this proposal is is a is a limited volume of the solution in a limited area um and you know I I we we just we we don't anticipate to have you know large scale effects from this it's it's a very small amount being um injected in a in a area where there are other petroleum impacts that are overlapping the ones related to The Spill that we're specifically trying to address it it does kind of complicate the issue um but the product is not the microb colonies my understanding you know my understanding of of how it works is that it is a it is a temporary effect it is expected to um Peak about 90 days and then the microbal activity will fall off it is it it's not something that'll be a sustained uh growing Colonia of microbes um in part because it's going to be limited by oxygen um if you you can't the the the microbial activity is not going to be unlimited simply because of the you know chemical fact the geochemistry of the of the area um I don't know Phil Phil do you have any uh other guys have any more questions are you comfortable I I think that this is definitely something that we could probably give a negative determination in my opinion so a a vote for negative determination would say it's not in our jurisdiction and they can proceed as they've described a vote against a negative determination would would mean that person feels like they need to file an noi so so we need a motion to approve the work scope as described in the RDA uh motion to approve the work scope in the RDA for a negative determination so that's the motion is there a second I second that all right so all in favor I I I got three eyes nay one nay uh you four eyes and one nay so um we'll send out that determination uh later on this week or Monday at the latest thank you thank you all right um is Claire here C can you wait a little bit um uh I I kind of want to do the enforcement in this this RDA next one up and then you'll have all the time you need uh on yours um otherwise if you do it now I'm going to hurry you um all right so I want to move to enforcement uh we've had a lot of enforcement 144 Ocean Avenue uh they constructed they actually removed grass piled it on the land next to them adjacent to the wetlands paved it and then on the state-owned road put asphalt down so they could drive over the curb um so that's going to come up we had complaints from someone on putam where we had adding fill and spreading Phil at 23 putam Road and 29 putam are those homeowners here so I went out today uh Lorena had actually responded and I went out I wasn't able to look at 23 putam cuz but I did see 29 putam so there's a big pile of soil and this house is adjacent to the marsh the property is adjacent to the marsh uh they're in land subject to Coastal storm flage they're on a barrier beach coastal Dune buffer zone all of this and in the pile i s 29 Platinum there was rocks and other debris in it um so in general and I don't know which one of you you're at 29 23 you're at 29 um you can't add Phil in those areas without getting a permit uh and one of you had a run in with the Conservation Commission prior years so should know that um it's not that you can't do some things on your property but you have to get a permit and go through the process uh the D and the Conservation Commission will not allow construction Rubble or dirty fill to be used at any rate and so don't know where this fill came from but you're probably going to have to excuse me remove it I don't know if there's anything you want to add just state your name and address oh my name is rapael with Kisa and um I just moved there five days after the incident I didn't know that I has to um ask for permit just to put the soil there I was thinking more in my on on the safety side for my kids but you know you guys know better than me and when I purchase the property is nowhere he say something about that area I had the picture here from my plan I have two lots one is not buildable I understand that part and so he I can't do anything on that area I don't see the point why should I be on on that lot yeah that issues between you and whatever you want to do to sell it but because of its proximity to to the marsh Conservation Commission would be concerned about the transport of that soil and whatever is in it from storm water rain going into the marsh we don't want that there how many feet do it has to be um I don't know what's the buffer zone 100t from uh the delineation of mar so you said 100t so basically we touch in the second lot um which is not right and then because you're located in land subject to Coastal storm Flowage the flood plane and you're on a barrier Beach yeah I know talk so is you talking about 50 or 100 ft there's no reason why I should be buying a property with some land that I can't even use it but that could be different issue that's a different I mean that could be a different issue but it's a different issue your issue is if you want to do something back there you have to go through a permanent process with the Conservation Commission no I don't want to do anything well then you need to remove the soil okay that you spread so I need a permit to remove the my recommendation to the commission is is that we issue uh a notice a potential violation not an enforcement order but a potential violation to give you time to get that out of there okay um I would agree with that I have how much time do you need I mean and what what else can I use to replace the the hole is there because it's a big hole so I believe you'd remove what was there currently safely and then and you have the ability of getting fill that isn't you know soil yeah and you know or something that's maybe permeable maybe there's other options but you would then have the ability where if you're we're not finding you or anything at that point if you're working with us we'll make it so that we can figure out something that'll work but you have to go through the process yeah you have to get a permit we perit I just like like I said I knew in the area I never knew anything about just right into the mic anything about that you know those issues but I mean I saw disappointed because I pay in the land that I can't even use it and listen I get it every property has its nuances and quirks and yours has that next to a marsh it sucks but you know every every property has their lousy job and and you know when I purchase the property I get it but that's not that's not on us at this point that's we're trying to help you to make it right so we're yet again not finding you we're trying to work with you to get it done correctly so this is why you're in the enforcement aspect of it where we're telling you what needs to be done and then once you do it you're done and then you don't have to have time spending us we'd love spending time with you but you know this will be a little easier on you we're trying to make this right we'll work with you all right um but you have to go through the permitting process one of the things we would require is is clean fill uh we'd want to know how much where you're putting it changes in elevation and as you're putting it down how are you going to stabilize that so we don't have any soil get transported into the swamp into the marsh um so you would have all those requirements that's part of the permitting process uh right now all this got dumped we have no idea where it came from does it have heavy metals in it does it have hydrocarbons in it construction debris and Rubble um it's not just us it's D uh would be involved in this so I I think my recommendation would be is wait until you get a notice a potential violation from us did we already issue one so we're reward that we'll give you some time to get it removed uh we'll put in language that we're willing to work with you and you can come and set up an appointment and we kind of help you go through that process um okay so I mean so many things that I has to do on that property but now at this point I don't know is I allowed to like I have an inspector to go to see a huge tree which is right next to the uh gas meter it's something that I need to be done but I don't know you know I has to get a permit for that too or I have to go through you guys so so technically you should ask us uh if the tree is a safety issue we would never hold up a safety concern uh the best way to confirm that is to have an arborist come out and look at the tree and condemn it uh so if it's in danger of following your house and injuring someone person whatever you know we would tell you in the interest of safety go out and do that we would also ask you can you plant another tree somewhere else to replace it but but yeah because you're in the coastal Dune the barrier Beach um you should ask and we would tell you if the arborer says it needs to go and it's a safety issue take it out okay so um all right so my recommendation is as we reward the notice of potential violation 6 weeks is that enough time yeah that's fine make a motion to approve that okay second all right all in favor I all right so Len if you reward that and then for it's it's the same story for your house um the only question I have is come and you state your name and address my name is Francisco rasa uh 29 pun uh my question is if you want to do that a driveway how long you can extend the driveway too close to the house you got to you know I know they got to go through you because something to do to the soil right so my question is how far can be the the driveway or extend the driveway oh oh I have to see because that you me you mentioned that they say it happened twice but the thing is the first time it was because he want us through the the existing driveway that's the thing when the neighbors called or something like that so that's the the thing question is is the driver is already there so he wanted just do the you know the power or something like that so you have to be careful the city might not require a permit but we will require a permit if you want to extend your driveway and we would ask we would have to see a drawing yeah because we have and a sketch and we would probably want that driveway to be permeable so it would be Stone crushed stone pavers but not asphalt the thing we have two right one in this the side and the other one is close to to the house that's the one you want to extend a little bit yep so so the pile of soil was to level the the one the hold so so that the thing another thing is when I look in the information for the action the well protection it doesn't say what kind of soil what kind of things you can do when your own property right only say so if you look at the wetlands protection act and some of the guys you never use in in the area that's a booster zone or just what kind of zone is that in that particular area where my house is repeat the question so in the area where my house is what kind of sness in the well land so is that the boosters that you mentioned that the boosters on or I think probably the the best thing for you would be to to file with us that what you're planning on doing and then we're able to work with you and say hey you can do X Y and Z you can't do this and that way you can ask specific questions so if I were you I would file for what you're planning on doing and then we'll we're able to tell you at that point because it'll be spelled out you'll be written out exactly what you can and can't do and that way it'll make things a lot easier for everybody yeah because that's that's rafha say sometimes we don't know because we go the house like a five or six years ago we don't know that's that you you know you got to come here and do the things in your own property you know yeah no I know that's the thing to file what you want to do and at that point we're able to have that conversation with you and say you can do this you can't do this in order to do this you have to do we'll work with you if you need to extend a driveway and what you need to do to level it and fill it and what you can put on it but you got to go through a permitting process um and so we're going to send you the same updated did notice a potential violation um but what you've got back there that that Phil um it had a lot of rocks and other things in it that's going to have to go that's okay all right so thank you guys for coming um you need your there you go no no I don't need it um 14 Goldie Street they put pavers in for uh their driveway and then they erected a short planter wall in the front I drove by there today they should have gotten a permit I don't know why it got turned into d uh and then D came to us we would have we would have permitted this they probably could have done it cuz uh there's no impact to the surrounding area um so I I think in this case have you contacted them Lena so I think in this case um it's going to be an after the fact down oi they mentioned that they they are away so they couldn't make it to this meeting they will be attending the next meeting in August yeah I mean I saw there's it's low it it's beautiful um I don't know if they got bad information uh where they were told they they need to get a permit but so that's that one um and then let's go to this request for determination of applicability Courtney Hillyard 127 Oak Island this is good morning state your name and evening Courtney Hillard at 127 Oak Island as requested yeah so this is one we were notified of where again an existing asphalt driveway has been replaced with pavers so an increase in permeable area no increase in elevation and existing brick Planters and existing brick steps to the front of the house have all been replaced um and the height really hasn't changed the project was pretty much done when we were told about it so when I visited uh Courtney she said they were given information they didn't need a permit um I I think if they had come to us with a request for determination of applicability and they're just replacing what was there and there's no change in elevation or footprint we would have said go go forward um so she's requesting a negative determination of applicability um that's a pretty good summary of it honestly I uh I thought my contractor got everything in a row he did talk to the city a whole bunch apparently he didn't realize there was like a State Environmental situation in our area um I'm glad we get the chance to sort it out before it like gets any gets since it's pretty straightforward and you've been here for an hour and 45 minutes learning a lot about MW um I would ask the rest of the board if they have any concerns on this and if not to make a motion I'll make a motion to uh approve a negative deter approve a negative determination of applicability second second all right all in favor I I have a wonderful evening thank you so much all right we we will send that to you um all right next up is a certificate of compliance for D file number 061 sorry chairman Shu Could you um I think you forgot about Claire with the L presentation Claire here we go so this is for uh a pre-application inquiry of us in a public setting for a property on 57 Oak Island where someone's looking at buying it or has bought it and what can they do to help improve that property with some of the water situation that they have did did you want me to throw it up oh do you have it if it's easy I also brought some printouts uh we provided a letter just summarizing the existing conditions at 57 Oak Island Street uh and LEC put together two sketches one of the existing conditions and uh isolated freshwater Wetland boundary that we delineated in the field and a second graphic just shows a very approximate sketch of what the project looks like so I don't know if you want to print out just to look at while we talk this through okay all right let me see if I can pull this up uh so just a really brief summary I know it's already been a long evening of the existing conditions so uh there's an existing three-story uh multif family dwelling uh just off of Oak Island Street here uh we delineated the boundary of an isolated freshwater Wetland uh that runs along the rear of the home um and then continues sort of to the northwest of the home up to a vacant lot that's owned by the city that's that green line dash line uh so the solid green line is what we flagged so that's with uh Wetland Flags A1 through A9 if you're if the commission members you know were able to walk by it I think we submitted this a week ago today so I know it was very short notice but uh we hung or we placed some orange pin Flags in the ground um but the dashed line is just an approximate Wetland boundary uh based on our observations uh just to depict that this is in fact isolated uh so I walked around Oak Island Park to the rear of the property and you could see where the soccer field is um at the sort of East edge of where that dash line um closes out I could see from the soccer field there that there is sort of an elevated Mound that disconnects the depression on our property from Wetlands that that are further east um so we did confirm that it's isolated and Loreno was kind enough to dig up a few other filings that are nearby uh that were done over the years so I confirm that there are no covert connections there's no um other protectable resource areas that connect to this isolated depression so we're uh generally confident that is an isolated feature that's protected under the ordinance uh the physical features of it and the overall did not indicate to us uh on initial review that it qualified as isolated land subject to flooding I think it measures about 8,700 sare ft give or take just based on these approximate measurements um but we understand that when we come before the commission with a notice of intent we'll have an engineer on board and have a surveyor come out to the site to uh delin or survey locate those Wetland Flags uh survey locate the topography within that depression will certainly confirm that it doesn't hold the volumetric criteria to meet that ilsf uh under the state regulations but uh thank you that's perfect transition the project we're asking the commission to consider and talk through with us is construction of three parking spaces that's sort of the whitish dashed line there um the property buyer spoke with the city and one parking space needs to be 18 ft long by 9 ft wide so to get three of those spaces we're proposing 18 ft long by 27 ft wide um just again this is all very approximate measurements that we're working with but we estimated about 70 square ft of impacts to the isolated freshwater Wetland to accommodate that um additionally as you can see the Wetland line around a wetland Flags A3 through A5 essentially hug the foundation of the rear of the home it makes uh egress from the house very difficult uh where essentially between Flags A2 and A3 and A4 there's an elevated concrete pad that somebody can exit the home through a door uh in the southern side of the house and walk downstairs that literally enter the Wetland um so we would like to ask the commission to consider allowing um with a future notice of intent uh placing 10 ft width of fill from the edge of the foundation to allow for safe access around the house uh you know for the future home uh property owner to conduct maintenance um over the years and more importantly for any tenants of the house to be able to have safe ESS um on a day-to-day basis or um God forbid in an emergency so um that portion of the project uh would result in a little over 500 maybe closer to 600 square fet of fill in that isolated Wetland um and I believe the base of the siding of the house currently is about 5T above existing grade um so the intent would be to place about 4T depth of fill um I don't have in my mind or um prepared for tonight what the volume of that would be but it's something that you know we're open to considering if the commission's asking for us to address in the future notice of intent what it would look like to um so this was all manicured yard at one time right at one time we looked through some historic photos and it's variable over the years but between 2019 2021 we saw there was like a sort of U shape behind the stairs of the house you can sort of see it see it the shadow there um that appeared to be manicured lawn um or at least mode but now it's really just a lot of fragm mighties uh purple loose strife going up right to the edge of the foundation there so it pro it hasn't been maintained since 2021 and it's just sort of on and off before then it seems so so my concerns would be loss of permeable area um you're on the coastal Dune barrier Beach flood plane right and any Phil proposed uh we would want to see and understand the Contours before and after to understand exactly where you're displacing water that this whole area has an issue with water um storm water rain water I'm not too worried about the coastal tide event it's just the normal rain create flooding um you need to sort out storm water drains um if if it's working or not I mean I've had anecdotal stories from people across the street doing the Beverly project you know that DCR for some reason has the drain on that side of the street and it doesn't work in fact Anthony lives over in that neighborhood um so I think I told you there's a city ordinance you can't divert storm water on your neighbor's property yeah of course um yep any concerns from you guys I think when they come before us it'll make a lot more sense of stuff but I think what everything he said is what the concerns will be okay um you know and if there's any impact to neighbors I I can't really tell I don't know that specific plot but is there homes very close close by or so John if you want to go to the first sketch that's a little more zoomed out there is that home um just sort of to the south on do they have any opposition um from what I understand I'm not entirely sure um but I believe if there was any fill placed in our site we would absolutely be looking into avoiding any displacement or exacerbation of water issues to their site um cuz I think they concerns would probably be that with the water but I mean I'm sure going from looking like a pit to being nicer you know I probably going to be an improvement for any neighborhood so I can't see them being too upset but everything in that neighborhood is all about water so um just when you come before us if that person you have a letter from that person saying that they're cool with it it's probably going to go over a lot better with this commission just as a heads up could I ask you a question actually with the connection with the neighbor you see the dashed line has a little portion of their property involved there if there was a conversation with that neighbor and they do have water issues and there was some sort of like team up to help them alleviate water issues and sort of combine a project is that something the commission could be open to absolutely anytime that you can help in that neighborhood with water and you have neighbors that are a pro for a project it's unheard of anyone having a project that is on that is Pro from a neighbor so if you can pull that that off than coming before us you know it speaks volumes okay yeah I I just don't want to see storm water on the street and then running down and not getting carried off in the storm water drains and then flooding other streets areas of of that um so just avoiding displacement beyond the depression that's already holding it is and these are your typical 2year rainstorm types of things we're not talking about 100e 7 in Rain event over 24 hours everyone's wet in that case uh Coastal storm everyone's wet but it's the rains um I think this year we've had a lot and and I've gotten so many complaints in that whole neighborhood cu the water table's up just like he said I my son sometime plays there my son plays there sometimes and I wife after rain and I see a lot of from FL a 5 to 87 I see a lot of water collected there a lot yeah that's very you can see it from the street yeah yeah so when when you start filling that up I just wonder where that water will go and I'm sure will look for his course and you have the park and you also have the feeli that and I started to get concerned with the neighbors on the lab so that do you know where the water table is is it uh not definitively at this point I think that's where we would want to get the engineer involved I imagine because I've seen other projects along river Beach and maybe even one in this neighborhood where you know when they put their parking lot in they created storage under the parking lot ah mhm um and are you on the PDF that I sent you or is this this is what you sent me yeah so if you scroll up a little bit there's some photos that are very helpful um that's actually a view of what you were talking about that you can see right from the street there that view right there so you're looking at my car from the corner of the house and that's where the parking would go um so there would be some fill material required to sort of level that out for from Oak Island Street and that's certainly something like some I think a gentleman earlier was mentioning placing some gravel with the top soil at top or something like that where there was so if it was a crush its own parking lot they've got systems and when you put down uh you know the initial course and a crush Stone and then you put this Matrix of plastic down and then fill that with Crush Stone it holds it all into place and you've got stor storage for water um it's one one option yeah and it's something you know we definitely don't want to lock anyone down to a decision tonight but I appreciate the ideas coming out because I think it'll help us get creative with this is the emergeny egress from the back of the house yeah it's hard to tell in the pictures but the Wetland flags are up on the stairs yeah not your way in I have a question if so when you plan to put the fill in have you done any borings or do you plan on doing any borings because once you put that fill in if you have a layer of gravel already Subterranean probably six to 10 in down plus some sand on top just when they actually first made the property are you going to take any borings just to see once you put that fill on where is it going to go that concern of it shifting somewhere else it's not going to have any where to permeate into the water table okay so I'd be curious to know if you're going to do borings in your plan to kind of see if it's going to actually penetrate into the uh water table yeah um we haven't gotten that far into the conversations but I appreciate you asking that question because it is something that if the buy if the uh property buyer is interested in moving forward with this project a lot of those are items that he'll take into consideration with next steps in hiring the engineer and getting somebody out there to do these borings or do some more exploratory testing to determine those answers so I'm going to take note on that question are you taking any trees out to put the parking in uh no uh if you go back down to the photo that uh we first looked at yes there um there is a silver maple tree just sort of like center right of that photo um I don't believe that would need to be impacted to um accommodate the parking based on the distance off of Oak Island Street but that's really the only mature tree that's out there otherwise it's fragm mites and then there's other vegetation that could be planted that would suck up water well yeah that's actually something we were thinking about as a potential mitigation option especially knowing that water issues are occurring within this property and around the neighborhood um if actually you go down to the first graphic that we had the existing conditions um some ideas we've been discussing were of course like managing the fragm mites on the site and just improving the vegetation um and then we were considering sort of replanting other native plants like uh Willows black willow or proy Willow tend to suck up water a lot they take a lot of water so it could potentially suck that out of the groundwater and alleviate some of the water issues there um another option that we are considering and actually is pretty new information is the property buyer learned that the lot to the rear of the house just south of us that has the dash Green Line work on it is potentially a part of the sale uh which means there is a bit larger space that we could consider um you know creating a little more storage if we have a chance to evaluate that further that dash line is very approximate so if we get another site visit and determine it's that size but the elevation is a lot higher than the really deep parts that you're seeing from the street potentially um depending on the methodology we use to remove the fragm mites if we're going to get an excavator in there we could just also dig out a little more storage while we're there soate create a rain Garden yeah we love a rain Garden I I do know there was another property where D made them come in and put a or improve a pond M um in in that area so okay any other suggestions so instead of adding Phill back to the boring question yeah if you do those borings and find out that you do have something that is preventing that water that does collect in that area would you be willing to instead of adding fill and raising the grade just removing the stuff that is uh preventing it from infiltrating into the actual water table I know it would involve dread I know it would involve some sort of below the surface in an area that is a little sensitive so you're saying like if we if we did a boring and found there's some restrictive layer and what we're actually dealing with here is a perched water table rather than the true water table correct yeah um that would be a very interesting Discovery knowing the surrounding area I feel like it's highly unlikely that we're dealing with the perched water table but just trying to cover all the bases absolutely no I appreciate that because we could come back to you guys and say oh my gosh we found something new so um I appreciate you thinking about that um and that's something if we found anything that's creating the issue I think it would just be like a cost benefit analysis that the uh property buyer would have to think about and we would consider and if if it's something that really deviates from what we've been talking about tonight um to the point that we think it might uh make a future approval more difficult than we expect then we would come speak with uh the chairman or um you know whoever um we need to maybe even do another one of these if something changes significantly before we come before with a notice of intent okay well good you got enough to go forward I think so it's um just from my perspective like it sounds like there's General support as long as we have good creative ideas and come in with you know no negative impacts to our neighbors so I think you know if the lot gets cleaned up and water can be stored and not diverted and impact any neighbors I think it's kind of a win-win okay especially if you're also looking at planting other indigenous varieties of plants that suck up water um yeah great well thank you all I appreciate your time thank you thank you for waiting I I I've made other people wait before so it's fine thank you thank you guys all right I know certificate compliance uh for 061 D 0820 what's the address on that Lorena she leave um so this is uh after the fact noi where they installed stairs going down to their basement um they've done it they've recorded it they're just looking for certificate of compliance saying it's complete and so take a motion to approve that make a motion to approve the certificate of compliance second second all in favor I I I thank you and then mlen Highway development company D file number 06107 64 this is a request of an extension for their existing order of conditions to uh extend the expiration date for three years I'll make a motion to uh request the extension need a second second all in favor I I hi all right hi I have no further business thank you guys is long meeting um motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn all in favor I I what all right thank you motions or adjourned who you're with oh I was with fields and Thomas we submitted the request for extension we're all set oh okay sorry no no worries no thank you for uh uh sorry tell you guys you didn't need to come or show up we were oh bummer oh well I got some work done okay great thank you for for your patience long meeting no worries have a good uh have a good rest of your evening everyone all right thanks yeah where'd you go mypop e