okay yeah we're live right I like to call this uh meeting together plant maintenance subcommittee July 29th 2024 um the roll call board members Mrs Rizzo yeah Mr Kingston in transit Fred sella chairman present uh we're convening today's meeting to address issues uh that have been mentioned prior and somehow or another um have not been accountable for maybe we can clear up some of the Mysteries uh that have prevailed and rumors that are flying I think that uh while we have Dr guchi here and super the uh director of plant maintenance uh why don't we address I think the easiest one to get under the belt is the lock system that has been in place since I believe last year um I've witnessed them it looks simple enough um I don't know if anyone else in the conwal of Massachusetts has it but that's the material we have it um I guess my question would yes I'm just I don't know if Brian has somewhere to be I'm good I didn't want to skip over him if he had another job go bringing that to my attention okay do whatever you got to be um I don't know whether the personnel has been instructed if there's been demonstrations maybe somewhere along the line um the Audi visual Department may be able to make a small little snippet where it could be shown at um substitute training missions or something just so we can have it I guess the question is has the Personnel been instructed in how to usage no so not as of yet um when we were in this process shortly after we uh installed the locks um we heard from uh inspectional services that there were two issues with the locks uh the first was um building code that uh speaks to unlatching and basically just a simple way of putting it is that uh a door can't have two locks on it it can only have one lock but not two um the other aspect that was a bit problematic was du operations and that means that um you have to anyone in the room has to be able to open that door without special knowledge and they work considering the flipping of the lock although we say it's simplistic to be some type of special knowledge and um I'm happy to say that the flip lock company has been phenomenal in working through these issues with us and just as recently as last week they were able to create five prototypes that resolved both of these issues um Dr Kelly and I sent the new type of flip block to the building inspector and we got approval to move ahead with this um the new type uh the new Gadget that goes under the flip lock simply when you pull down the door handle it automatically lifts the lock for the person so that it does not require any special knowledge and it is not considered another lock because you're you're literally opening the door and it lifts the latch for you um I have a video but I know we may take a little field trip and go see one live so um two weeks ago they came up and installed five of them um at the high school so that we could see and then the building inspector could give us the green light before we went District wide Again part of the reason why the video wasn't disseminated to to staff is we were working through this and we didn't want to send a video and then try to unring the bell and then send a new video and say oh but we have this new way of doing it so now that we have approval we know where we have the green light from inspectional services and um after I got that green light I reached out to the owner of the company um she is trying to get all of these installed by the first day of school um that's her goal she just has to get the supply um and it's at no cost for the district they're going to make it right um we have not uh given them payment and we are not getting charged anything extra for this new type of device I um excuse me I like to mention School Committee Member Lea has shown up I apologize um what where are we I'm can I add one bit one piece to that Richie um the the one place where where we still have a question mark is here at the high school because you see most of the doors have these round knobs which already are not ADA Compliant but that's because this building is so old um and there's no fix for those round knobs um so one one I mean regardless of whether we did flip lock or not um those those handles are not ADA compliance so the committee can consider whether they want to change out all of these um door knobs um to make them ADA Compliant or knowing that we're going to be in a new building in three years um do we not incur that expense at this time hopefully down the road the city is going to be applying to the msba to do a renovation of this building um to make it a Central Middle School at that time that could be become changing the the those door knobs would be part of that upgrade because the building needs to be compliant um my own recommendation would be that that that we wait but the committee can certainly weigh in and the other place where this is a question mark is at the Linkin where some not all of the door door knobs are like this again because it's an older building all right open up to members of the committee subcommittee first please I just um where we are not compliant are we being Vine no and do they give you a timeline of when we need to be they they did previously 45 days and um the inspector has since given us the approval on that and said that we're clear till we build a new one or clear to just that the method that the um are you talking about the flip loock or the round KN the round knobs so we're not required to do that upgrade it's one of those things that gets grandfathered kind of like if you have an older building and you don't have sprinklers makes sense you're not required to put sprinklers in thank you WEA um are the door knobs that remain are they in the classrooms like P any wrists or anything like that these ones the ones that we're worried about they are in the classrooms they're basic they're on almost every door in this building the ones that have um the door knobs that are up to code which are the ones that you do this are in the East Wing because we've done more recent renovation down there what makes them not do you know what makes them not ADA Compliant uh somebody with special needs might not be able to turn it or if they have a physical handicap they might not be able to turn it whereas the flip ones they've determined are more accessible because you could even do this if you had a hand issue okay to open that okay um and then my other question was were we reliant on the flipflop company for the information that we received before we installed them we did yeah okay I knew that I know that you had you know done a thorough background and I'm just wondering how did we miss that but if you're I'm I assumed we relied on information from them that these were all correct and I think that's why they they made it right and that's why they're making it right okay that's fair enough so they had they had um they had used code from they had put on their website that it was all compliant and code compliant fire compliant ADA Compliant all of that and then um but the codes in Massachusetts are a little bit different and that's where they even when we verbally said you know do you have clearance they said yes and then when we found out they didn't they I will say they've been responsive in finding a solution but it's still no I know good frustrating they got here but but yeah and what might work in one city or town doesn't necessarily work in Reb because it's co depending on person and even I mean we had run this through with the with the with the police department with the fire department with the mayor's office like with everybody and none of us anticipated what the outcome was so and I will say if you if we do take the trip and see it it's pretty impressive yeah what they came up with all right and then my my last question was you said the timeline was hopefully they would all be installed by First of scho and then what what's what are we going to we send it on a video to the staff show them the so they can see I was trying to look if I could pull it up here CU I know I emailed it to the mayor at one point but you guys can't see my computer anyway it would be on the zoom though so now when I push see that CH it does it automatically you don't even have to touch it this is new walking right I see the CH oh you don't even attention so it's called one motion okay that's great yeah they were awesome Stace you all said I am thank you I I I think that opening remarks is I'm I'm disappointed that we got into a pig and a poke uh no matter who was responsible for selling the product I me shame on them for not knowing the state laws if they're selling in other states I hope they're a little more compliant with what's available um I I I'm I'm I'm the locks you can't have two locks on the same door this is a safety feature you don't want 12 people being able to open it because if somebody panics and they open it everyone's at risk so I mean but that's the law I'm not I'm not saying that would have to be re Rewritten um here we are almost a year into the product and we still haven't resolved it's in the makings of resolving it which sounds good a new wrinkle is the round kns um did I understand that the company be responsible for adapting them or are we going to be responsible for Chang us if we wanted to do it uh KY any idea how many do are going to require it what clost it's every door in this high school with the exception of the East Wing okay and the L School the Lincoln School is every just about every classroom door I don't know the exact number of doors but we priced it and it was around $50,000 to do the Lincoln School to bring the handles up that's the Lincoln okay and plus what we have here so we could talk in the vicinity of well and excess of $100,000 I would say more can based on this probably three times yeah um well we plan on exiting this building in a few years I wouldn't recommend spending the money here but the linkoln may be something that we Le the special needs classrooms yeah the back they have it's something that we're going to face eventually anyway just these door knobs being out of compliance with or without the flip lock all right um has this been taken under advis for the new school I mean that if this program goes in it'll be put in when the building's built not something is an after thought it would have to be right that's something that we're going to have to make sure that we're getting whether it's it's a learning lesson in Forest where we have this on your M I would hope that there's a second means to emergency lock a door in the new high school okay um and I'll just say that I did speak to the msba about this already and obviously the new high school will have code compliant but they will not participate in a secondary lock on the door that's something the district would have to fund ourselves oh so we wouldn't get reimbursed for that there are built-in means to achieve this with new door hardware so you wouldn't encounter this sort of issue and that sort of device in a new building because the hardware they sell nowadays is adapted to what people who run schools want to see there's various options whether it's thumb turn locks Etc we will get into all that internal like flip locks you will the door set to do lock if you want to do lock always necessarily oh so what do we do with all these foot blocks then that we have in this building scrap going to sell them to Chelsea no this will be the Middle School eventually you'll want it here yeah I'll also mention that uh I believe there's legislation right now to change the um for these locks I don't know when that would ever get approved but it is being considered right now the the purpose of the code that we're talking with a one motion open a door is from years ago when schools were typically made out of wood and if they caught fire it's the fire code that's in violation of having more than one motion to open a door is a violation of the fire code that is for my mind less of a threat now than some kind of a uh an issue where we would want to lock people into a room and not let anybody access it and I think that the code in the legislature just needs to catch up to those two different tensions from where we were to where we are yeah but whatever happens the doors will be accessible to anybody to open them say that again with with the new process anyone in that classroom a kid could P go up and open the door yeah if it's cold we can't you know that that's scary because you're the thing here is you want someone in charge like my question before I was going to ask is who what's the code is there a code that unlocks them automatically in other words when the when the problem is over this the the threat is non-existing how are they unlocked I mean how do how are people notified okay the D is gone back to normal so you'd probably do an announcement over the PA like we do now and say saying you know the lockdown has ended may open your classroom doors or something like that it's going to depend on the situation right if it if it's a situation where something did happen um what we have trained our teachers to do is nothing unless a police officer comes to the door and tells you to do it we don't listen to you have had interaction with the teachers regarding well just in general oh okay okay in our any if if something were to happen and we you don't react until somebody a police officer comes to your door identifies himself and tells you the threat is and that would still be the same with the flip all right so I I I guess for the committee's purposes the concern we have is the cost of changing locks or changing um door handles at a considerable expense um the compliance with its legislation we have no control over it um oh uh Mr Kingston has joined us I apologize I had a appointment ran a little over you're lucky you're still here today with Dr vade you could still be sitting here I got an early appointment yeah it was almost on time so can we make a recommendation to um send this to Ways and Means for 50,000 that the committee does agree to can can we just take a minute to fill in Mr Kingston uh apparently the system we have is what we thought we had we take two seconds oh yeah absolutely yeah so um beer with us please we had heard from the building inspector in regards to two problems you and I spoke about this yeah um so uh the first was unlatching meaning you can't have two more than one lock on a door um and the second was the door operations that they can't require any special knowledge and they were considering that little act special knowledge um so the company has been working with us they developed five prot types that they then installed on the East Wing where it's now one motion I'll show you the video so you can see don't I I don't want pick up the committee sign do two seconds apologize at no cost us they're going to fix so when you just when you the handle but it has to be a handle and not a knob but it has to be a handle and not a knob so that's what Mist all was talking about and regardless of are not Ada right exactly that yeah yeah yeah all new construction has yeah so it's 50 grand for the handles is that what we're talking about at The Linc at the Lincoln just so once so the only place where we have a question mark is this building in the Lincoln um and call Price sale for the Lincoln it would be about 50,000 to do we do all of the door knobs there here it would be about three times that and we're thinking skip it right we're going to be out of here in three years and then when this building gets renovated we down the road for a middle school you will have to change the door Norms but it hopefully it's through the msba it's a project through the msba so you'll have the reimbursement $50,000 abut msba is supposed to be putting the school committee member on their board and I was asked if I wanted my name on oh wow that's great that's awesome I don't oh you don't why not that'll be great don't waste all that knowledge huh much time it's a lot of time oh but you'd be good at it John any further questions no sir no I don't want to to K your recommendation would be to hold off on changing the knobs but proceeding to the implements at no cars to the school department um have I missed anything on that not the knobs the um chain chain ease of opening right I mean if we're discussing uh Chang in the Lincoln School I would recommend that I think that's a a hill usel they don't they can't use it at all it's right now they can still use it but they're out of compliance they can still use the flip blck but Grand problem is it's a two motion okay operation to to unlock it okay so there's two proposals on and and since we anticipate having that Lincoln School online for like there's no intent of ever taking it offline we should do the work to bring it up okay no no what I want to present to the regular Comm the whole committee is option A B C and D um if if it's a necessity money plays in but it's not Paramount so I think that the remarks that have been made especially Elicia you are talking the special needs classes at the Lincoln um okay well the whole Lincoln no no I understand but that's even GRS here I've got the new word but the small learning groups here should be done okay so agreed they'll make that recommendation all right um well we have Mr daon here who graciously uh is given of his time I I think that U when I came on board there was great discussion about portable classrooms to get us through the three or four years or whatever it's going to take to build a new high school um would you kind have you been prev to any uh research that you have vol here to do um yeah I could maybe a quick status update if that's all right would be good so we brought on um City brought on CSS Architects few months ago um they have a five task contract set up the first task in their contract is complete was the first five six weeks of it it's called predesign Services initial meetings with the the school to know what you folks needed uh code and Regulatory review and reviewing some basic layouts to figure out what can fit out there that portion of it's been done they're in task two right now schematic design I was uh our schedule had this meeting being a presentation of the summary of schematic design they're not ready for it uh I apologize for that the reason they're not ready for it um well I'm not trying to make excuses for them but what did come up is that where we want to put these classrooms right behind the building where the bus parked um Don cherel of City noted that there's a few water mains and drainage uh pipes running under this that they've had problems with even in the last year or two there's been some breakage on that line so the suggestion was if we were going through sit classrooms out there to do a few additional borings um the borings are what sort of set schematic design task back a few weeks however the report did come through uh borings were done the first week of July the report came through on Friday um two things we're looking at in that report one uh confirmed there's no hazardous materials in that area which is great so that's step one the the whole reason we're looking into what's underground is the thought from the city and the engineers on this is if you were to just rent a trailer and put it there and wherever that bears on the ground if it's bearing on the wrong spot you might end up with a water M breakage a continuous problem so question one was um if we have to dig is are there hazardous materials answer is no that's good news question two the engineers are working on it's do we have to do anything special to these trailers to make make them sit on the ground in a manner that doesn't bear weight on one or two specific points um that is what they need this week to complete that analysis that will allow us to say do we need I think screw peers are what they're called they're almost look if you picture a deck the old SAA tubes something like that I think is going to be needed out there that's straddled around the utilities that then those trailers that are sitting on top of it are adapted to bear on those points instead of just the little legs they come with so the architect is nearing completion of schematic design they have to turn the report we got Friday into a foundation recommendation um and then they need to do a full cost estimate um they have committed to being ready um within the next two weeks so they could present this as early as next week um I don't want them to not reach the finish line again so I would say like two weeks from today might be a good day to meet a little further might be good I'm going to stay on them but uh we'd like to come back to you saying the first two tasks are complete and say Here's a layout here's a cost estimate and here's what we can do to bid this um I have a lot more thoughts about the the limitations of how to bid this but right now I think the decision as I understand of this committee is do you want the architect to complete the schematic design phase understanding they're I'm calling them two weeks behind which would at least give you a full cost estimate and then the option to move them into procurement documents to get this bid and implemented so sort of pause there if anybody wants to talk about time frame we can't so Brian there's no chance we having it for the problem no no and knew that though I we knew that one important well the core reason is the only way the school or city could call up a place that has modular classrooms and just buy them directly is if you could roll them up and plug them in right like an RV park if there's any supporting construction required Mass procurement law and um Michael picardi some folks at City Hall I've talked to we as well it becomes a construction project we would need to modify the electrical system at it's building to basically be able to plug these in we're going to need to dig some sort of hole and probably put in screw peers there might be a little bit of other work once you have that construction that comes along with this it's a construction project not a procurement of modular trailers so if the if I would have get someone on the phone right now who had a dozen trailers at their shop used ready to go the city could only act on that if you could roll them in plug them in and be done with it no other construction because that's not the case we have to complete a set of bid documents advertise the bids put the bids out wait for bid responses and then react and those bids could include lease prices or used so it's really push one set of documents out get a cost bids in for new for used for lease and then make a decision and I know one one thing that Carl had mentioned I forget if it was at the last school committee meeting or when but he had mentioned to the committee that we're this far through this process to have a full set of bid docs and then say we still don't we don't want to do this it doesn't make right now but to have that completed we actually save money then to scrap it all right now and then if two years from now I I don't even want to speak out loud what I'm thinking but if something happened that the high school didn't open on time and we said we're bursting at the scenes we must do something we would have to resend all this money again am I paraphrasing correctly now this this set of um plans and almost the bid dogs to be prepared is worth its weight and gold I mean it's something we could say we we have it on our desk if someone wants to say let's do it then we do it the problem my biggest concern is the money it seems to be an enormous expenditure that may not have the value and that's not for me to decide but the numbers we're getting were a lot larger than anyone ever anticipated when we started this be you turn to the cost of the study or the cost of the unit the cost of the study I think is worth it worth it worth it value yeah it's it's the num is we're kind of hearing about leasing and procuring or buying or okay okay those are numers that are up in a spot that weren weren't even imagined Brian what's the what's the number that we're looking at for the study itself um for the services or the um so the CSS contract uh hold on I can throw a few numbers together the the predesign second s to two guys John it had the five days isn't it yeah with the c next to each one so5 so 10 would get you through bidding 110,000 through bidding um and then just the phase one and phase two together phase one and phase two is 55,000 right that's so that's all so and then we that's all we committed to right I guess I guess I'm looking at what the draw price is like is the drw price 55 and we can walk away 150 and it would be 55 and then walk away or not and 55 would get you here's a current cost theable with that I was just worried like 150 or something cuz you know then you've kind of cross the bridge there that's that's the problem with going out the bid is now we spend another $100,000 to go out the bid to find out that these costs are going to be enormous and we already know that compelling argument last and then it says okay we we could have cut back because we knew that's what I'm looking at now I want to spend 150 to find out we're not going to do anything because I'm that I know it's in a draw and it's nice to have but it's still money that we don't have any long yeah it's it's the continuation is worth keeping it in the draw we should I mean they're already there at this point we'd be fighting not to pay them on work that we already commissioned them I was thatout no that's yeah I that was a big proponent of it but I'll be honest with you after looking at the costs I'm just being honest I'm not as a big of proponent as I was and I think Kyle's ideas of finding stuff in this building wherever you can find it I just think I hate to spend money you know when the building's not going to you know mean the thing that's it's not needed you said to me John we got to do the electrical system in the building and that has to be done and we're going to keep the building fine but this is something that'll go away sub commmittee M you have any no I agree with KY I think to have as much information in case we need it down the road is important um I I believe the cost for the actual things is not worth it's the value is not worth it and I mean I'd rather see the handles done at the high school for much smaller amount yeah no I agree agree as well all right if I if I may interject usually to everyone's um you alluded to it in some of the studies that fill that used to be the Clay Pit half the scol square is very in those days they just dumped it there could beer in there I know what's down there we've dug water that's I wanted that clarification it's not an easy type thing to say we're going to ahead and do this also the county ditch technically runs from the Hill school all the way down re Street happens to come through our property right we were kids there was a creek you could actually see when it was the brick ey see Brian I told you that so the the thing here you have is it's unstable no matter what you do unless it just sits something on it and they're not readily available to have them sit do you have any documentation when we had the portable classrooms at the at the um McKinley School I mean they appeared and then they disappeared yeah right but that was that the problem with those is that was 15 years ago well I'm not dating it but I'm just if you look at the price it's triple and that's basically where we're at for everything now compared to 15 years ago so but those were just those were just dropped and plugged in they had toilets oh no they had toilets but we had to bring a gas service we had to do everything there that we did here and that was solid land that was I think we have the same land here surface we have it here our problem right now is not the land we could we we're gonna just figure out if there's certain type of peers we did the same thing we did there here at McKinley to say can this lot hold these units and they did it so that's step one we did that there I think we wouldn't have any problem we would have saw it in the in the boring if they went down three feet and found water they're finding brick all that good stuff for us to say yeah that's stuff we want to be able to put a building on we're not looking at slush or slurry we got good solid land here if we wanted to do it most likely this report's going to come back and say you can definitely do it these little spots might be a little tricky we'll come up with an idea to kind of that'll that'll solidify whatever hot in the pun but that will have backing that it can be right without having um I noticed that right a is closed has anyone reached out to see if it's rental there I I haven't well what I'm what I'm saying is again I'm dating myself when I was in high school the Center School across from Little Mack and field we used to walk there for industrial Lots you know home not home um Woodworking and Sheet Metal and um that was a distance I mean that's a massive space all you'd have to do is segment the classroom I mean it's power it's got everything in there and if they want to rent the whole place maybe the city can move some of its isolated services on the one route it's parking and everything else um I I would like to just throw out is is it worth reaching out to whoever management at the property and see if they're interested in a two or threee lease then you put everything the mayor's office would have to do that because yeah they we can recommend to them I'm saying it's so close to the high school yeah and and it's it's open space I mean it's not tearing walls down it's just petitioning and that may solve your problem trying to you know free feed here this room here someplace else yeah Freddy you're moving in on my Trader Joe's be tra Joe's come in they can take Fred you're not the first person to think about I I would want to buy it to be honest with you we could do anything then I would want the city to buy it but see you have to understand the mentality of Rivier in the last 20 years there's been more property when St T disclosed right when I mean there there was so much property lady al la that they could have that and I don't even know the process maybe I'm in the domain just to reserve on service bus lines were on Broadway we we packed them outside and and a lot here there was a garage mechanics could work so the city is not apt to do something logical practical or and without casting dispersions but land is tight you you experienc where we put in the high school um the old driveing that could have gone there it could have gone Neco right across the street Street I mean so that's p and I have a tendency to live in the past but would would it be with this committee's um servicing or or its prance of doing a recommendation to the city to look into the rental well wait a minute K would that be feasible to put in seven classrooms just because of its proximity yeah I mean we'd have to meet in the words of Brian D anything can be done with engineering and money I'll credit him to that but we have to meet every type of standard with fire codes and exer codes and I'm sure breaking that up would be um an HVAC project they would have to isolate each space with fresh air it's a lot different than just an open like if you walked into right age but it's something an AR we first thing would be to give it to an architect and say here make this building code compliant for a student a student um occupied building start with that how much would it cost if I may yes please please just because I literally walk through it this weekend but um I know different state different scenario but um Burlington Vermont has repurposed a mall into their high school and it's occupied um so much larger than this but there's precedent for it it can be done as Carl saying um and I think if you had an architect I bet it's been done in more places than burington Vermont because a lot of these commercial places are empty and the cost of construction for new um all buildings let and school buildings is just phenomenally High yes um how are we makeing with space so I did give an update on Tuesday we we're right up against it so um I'm going to forget exactly which period is which but from the four blocks of the school day there's one period that there are four rooms open there's one period that there is three rooms open one period when there's only one room and one period when there are zero rooms so it's we're right up against it but that did not include this room um which I talked to the high school about I think I said all this on Tuesday so sorry if I'm being redundant but they'll use this as a when they have outside Consultants come in to meet with kids and so they're going to need to use the space during the day which is fine not every day not all the time um they to I'll say they I was say they use it all the time they do yeah it's a lot you see students in there a lot but did talk to Chris and Caitlyn about it they don't feel like there's any need to pull out the structure or CH they feel like the space where it is is sufficient they want to put whiteboards on this wall over here um and we'll probably take down that TV since we have the big one over here that we use now anyway and just put two whiteboards over there and they feel like that would be fine um yes St please um you talk about R A and y and anything can be done over there but I don't look at it as accessible for the students that might have to change classes might have to come here for a cafeteria I could see it more if you're looking at taking her office away and throwing her over there that tyght but as far as students I I don't think that would be reasonable or fair to those students but I I see where you're coming from I I think to use it for something else would be great um my comment that I was going to make I forgot when I have my hand up first um par me oh you know what I know what it is I just before we're going on to a different thing I want to make a motion to accept you know to make recommendations to the committee to do the bid dots finish that but not follow through with trailers and task one and two task one and two finish that do I think the committee already voted on that to do that yeah last time yeah this committee no didn't the whole committee the whole committee did when was that July meeting I remember but I remember us talking about that and voting on it yeah um did it come out PL of Maintenance I just I don't remember the exact iteration do you remember John I thought it came out of ways and means I thought it did come out of ways and means now that you say that yeah and the committee voted to let them proceed um through the end of phase two and that then we would reassess and we scheduled this meeting because we thought we would have the results of phase better update right because at plant and maintenance last month when um we talked about we talked about finishing up but they didn't know it went any further than planted maintenance so I think that what you're really looking for is just a twoe extension and I don't know that that needs a vote or no no yeah I viewed it more as that if you want to tell them to stop then let me know otherwise I'm telling them seems to seems to want to have I think the consensus is that we would like to have the report so yeah I just didn't want to I just wanted like a drop dead figure I don't want you to come back and say John we spend 200 grand for something we're not going to do that kind of hurts 55 is you know it is what it is I mean spend 50 on door handles I guess dri reports and I don't disagree with the door handles I mean some kids have trouble with door door knobs that's why they door knob and I'll just say those those door knobs are expensive you're looking at $6 $700 a set and not like a $35 you know it's amazing it's just it's the cost yeah it's not it's not like that it's got to be all the fire codes and everything else the estimate for the new high school is 650 per door it's amazing but so that is in the plant and maintenance minutes that I can refer back to I think it was in ways of means was it no I think it was no I agree I think it was no hold on I'm gonna take that back I think it was PL means so we talked about it okay yeah I don't think it was I'm on boat so I got a little confused I'm sorry yeah I think it was plant and maintenance we just that's where yeah discussed PL I remember you were there and that was Zoom yeah right so I was right apiz yeah I was it was a maintenance meeting you were on that meeting complete task one and present I wasn't a member I'm on both committees so I just all right so that the consensus we have now is to continue with the study and get it probably answer put we'll have it from there right much needed but did we vote to not go forward with the trailers I don't remember that we have we haven't got all the no you didn't you you didn't vote to not go forward you voted to see what TR and then decide whether to proceed or not so we'll go there y thank all right but I'm still interested in writing can we include that in the study see if it number one it may not even be available they may be renovating it now to put in cow wash yeah there's apartments going there oh that have really just assuming um I definitely think it's a discussion with the city I just looked it up it looks like an LLC owns it um well that's so R Works LLC is listed as the DED owner I have no idea who they are re works it's on the rever gis it says the owner rever Works comma LLC how long have they owned it the same uh yeah I I don't know but so I think the next step on that would be out to the city to say who owns it who controls it is there an opportunity Etc well I think before we do that we should find out if it's could we do it I mean the question if it's available IMM material if if the state or someone says no you can't convert it you you you've alluded to the fact that there are places that have done it whole malls y um so Fred would it be possible if you request um Patrick to look into the information of who owns it and then perhaps further we can discuss more well I mean I want a consensus if if I'm the only one that feels it's feasible knowing I slept back and forth you know for it um and I don't think it's that far across the street I mean that that's it if I I need to be right there I'm not crossing the street keep raing your hand I mean I think my thought would be that if if there was space outside of this building somewhere in this city I would more so rather the administration be in that I was going to say students within one right that's that's what whether or not they I think there might be plans I'm not I mean don't quote me on this ask ask mayor Keith but I think there may be interest in that I would it was better than when it was the City ad so uh right on Broadway how much can I ask Kyle this question I know you're not going to get a take measure right now but how much space if they move through all the offices how much space would we Pi up what are we talking I mean it's bigger than this it's bigger than what we use here but we use we use a lot of space here we and I I I would put it to the mayor to see if we could acquire it for city offices and then possibly share it if it's big enough if not we make it a school department administration building just to as a feasibility study to look at that I mean that place you never know the owner may be looking to sell it and they may be looking to say no I'd rather lease it we don't know anyone's intentions I know they're probably not looking to donate a piece of commercial property for the city but I'm wonder how much space if we move the administrative offices how much space are we actually picking up what's the cost no just by my recollection of right a I'd say it's a lot bigger than what we you how much picking up here I I would say that when you pull out all the fake walls that we put up over the years you'd have one two three four five six seven classrooms okay substantial because it's all of this all the way over to special ed right you know but the it you know just to um put everything on the table um even us all moving out of here and converting this into classrooms first we'd have to get access to that property over there and they'd go through all of the same kind of construction stuff that we're talking about then we'd have to move over there then they would have to do some construction working here you're probably two years away from that and then again we're one year God willing till we're all over and well they're all if you don't and if you don't own the building you're still you're at the mer AG you don't own it you're at the Merc you could do all that construction oh four four no everyone's saying three today and I'm like no it's not three I'm hoping it's four making me a little nervous too it's four all right I'm going to ask you a question is has has the plans for the new high school including all the administrative offices no that we're going to stay here so when this converts you're still going to be here correct right just Just One Financial point on the conversation remember the classrooms were going to be net School spending eligible costs at least for a certain number of years if the school committee so decided which you did in the budget that you voted but this conversation about secondary spaces doesn't count it it is not school committee decision to make it would be a city C I get you so that's a totally different yeah funding source okay thank you so Fred if you if someone wants to make a motion for the city to look into the feasibility if that would help you with your I I I just think it's an opportunity whether we Avail ourselves whether the city avals itself because fewer and fewer opportunities are coming down the pike and this school committee and school department is going to suffer for it in the long run because everything that's coming in I mean I know in Florida when they get a new section they they plan fire stations schools you know administrative officers County officers before they put a the shovel full of dirt here they try to squeeze everything in and you can only squeeze so much um so again did you want a motion I would I would I would I would ask for just to part of we're doing feasibilities so you know just to see if um but again to refresh my memory you're not in favor of having the kids go across the street to right a I'm not well the one thing that's been um spitting in my head is one thing that's different from when we were all kids in going to school is the liability rate um and I'm thinking especially of kids who get transportation to and from school would we have to transport them from here to Right Aid I know it's just a block but there are some kids who couldn't walk that in between classes and so are we exposing ourselves to other different kinds of charges if there are particular classes over there that some kids can't access unless we get them to and from and then what kind of expense does that incur so I would say short answer no I'd rather the kids stayed here and we moved John so kle it's would be just say all things being equal it'd be easier to make a Office Space I'm trying to say absolutely different R tape there's different regulations just if I get out the just because I have a bunch of documents the square footage the gross square footage of this admin office is about 15 16,000 square feet wow the gross square footage of that building is 16,000 sare feet wow you could take the whole thing just measuring off a map but we have lists of this space but measuring that off the gis map it's it's weirdly similar wow the 15 that's a um this is like the list I can zoom in on how much is this room over right office building see the difference is that if something were to be done with people there that would take out of the new high school space for people either academic and app no no that's right you're staying here you're staying here okay all right so entertain a motion to request the city to look at the feasibility would you want me to meet with Patrick I mean Patrick's on the school committee correct so I mean we could make that motion to the school committee to have a conversation about looking into the fees the rents renovate or buy the property right it but Diane has a good point if it's a two-year project we're halfway to the high school I can't see it taking two years to move the offices i' say at least a year and a half or everything at least it's all this bureaucracy like the same thing with like we thought we could just get classrooms out here right but once it becomes a construction project now you got to do the bid docks now you got to go out to bid now you got like it's just crazy to me how long stuff all take it's an important point on that Dr Kelly is if you were putting students in there yeah that adds a whole lot of time it was I mean because it's already been empty it would it would definitely need more or less to be rebuilt and the code it would be a change in its occupancy use uh anyway but I'm just the point I was making is occupancy use for office or Administration doesn't bring along a whole amount of reviewing with msba if you would to put students in there now you're discussing it with desie you're discussing with msba and your timeline just GNA get a lot more a lot more well one more question I'm let it is there any benefit to having the offices there somewhat permanently in leaving the building py I think we're coming into a squeeze where we're look we're going to be looking for space regardless of what we use at forx whether we use it for offices in our classrooms go to where the offices my thought is it's a more of a longterm move than a shortterm it's not like you're going to move back when the building I mean if you keep waiting for the space the McKinley that's uh if if um if they leased it I'm saying least instead of a three year back building empty because then it's free you know you not paying leasing fee or whatever my just thought was down the road I mean if we're looking at 00 middle school kids now and the building's not big enough I don't know what size the building is for but I mean if the if the school population grows a little bit you might need this space the space we're talking about for the middle school yeah it it might end up getting tight you mean for a middle school too I I I think about that a lot because you you're at about 1,00 kids I mean give or take I mean I might be off 10 or 12 but I'm close so you're at 1800 kids now and we saying oh the building's too small for 2,000 well it's not that much more yeah right but one thing one thing um that I think the school committee should look at and this I'll be going before this happens but um when the new building opens and we think about the redistricting does the rney mash Academy building remain part of this as a Central Middle School and then um they have that space maybe that's a center for stem or yeah know I know the I'm just saying you know some I look at number say myself because I agree with Freddy unfortunately I think the city think it's just been historically that way I'm you're a little older than me but it's usually a shortterm for the most part people think shortterm because they're trying to get to the get through the day and all that so I'm just trying to yeah but I do I can see the city baring I talked I've talked to Pat about it a couple of times because I thought because I said to him we should really buy it he said a we don't have the money and B it's Prime real estate on Broadway we don't want don't want you know we don't want you know it's not a place to putot year ad an A but I drive through PD all the time at work and PD's administrative buildings right on Street a lot of communities but I think we I I totally agree I'll second the motion if you'd like that we look into it it's not going to hurt to look shace you in a court or youon me ask but I'm staying office space not for school I no no that was my initial intent but the but the administrative part then that frees up what I see yeah per perhaps maybe just open it up to explore external space space not necessarily just write aid but maybe just have a conversation maybe there's available buildings that you're not even we're not even thinking about or we don't even know or the store 24 next you know maybe just kind of open up open it up to have a discussion about you know looking into external properties the thing with that is it lingers and it lingers if we're specific then they have no excuse to say well maybe you know this way here we're looking for something um because anything bigger is going to be developed into a or whatever it's it's units on the beach they're putting two more stories on used to be eight units now it's going to be a dozen units um everyone wants to come to re and they're bringing kids with them and the empty nesters are a bigger problem than the apartments you know it's something that a house that has three bedrooms and no kids they're going to at least minimum two three kids so I I I think if if this is a solution to administra now and forever whether we buy it lease it or whatever that takes care of that problem down the line um no matter what it's up to the city to decide if they have the money for the building or any building for that matter Stacy then well you know I've Liv through this there's no money for but as soon as they want something the money appears so I mean if we're assertive and and this is crunch time but that's a council right now that's not going they just approved the new high school and it it's it was a killer it was a a matter of Ryan and Diane and everyone else meeting with each individual to show the necessity and the cost Factor so I mean it's up to them to approve it Stacy you're not that naive there was more behind that than than just the high school so let's not even go there it's there you've done yman you've done yman work it's it's it's reality a lot of people are still shaking in their head whether it was arm twisting whether it was um promises made I don't know but let's let's stick to what we have here this is a problem if we don't start it now three years four years whatever it's going to be it's going to be a problem as Diane mentioned she won't be here chances are we will hopefully but that's not the point so at least um if it's with the approval of the motion made in seconded that um we inquire as to the feasibility of renting um all buying the right a site I mean it's got plenty of Park and it's the future it could be turned into anything any City activities school department activity but if we don't stop protecting our flank there's going to be nothing left there going to be nothing left all right so on that end of it um any other comments before we oh one thing I I've heard complaints of Cal this will be addressed you through the teachers apparently whether it's a minority of them or whatever everything from rodents to whatever's going on any validity to any of this I I'll say that when it comes to rodents and any type of pest we live a full-time battle with that but it's the city it's not just the schools right but we we we are at war with them then I don't I don't agree with that they're winning if you go to Lynn on Chelsea they're winning we are fighting them like the cats and dogs and we have a full implemented Pest Management program that takes everybody that's not just mouse trps or poisons which we very limited that we can use in the schools okay but it has to do with keeping the trash off the floor and outside of the you won't see orange pales out there we're picking them up we know what brings them but we'll never stop them 100% there's nothing that stops them coming in through the vents or through the um you know the garage at the Garfield through the open air door we're we're at war with them and it's no one sitting on their hands saying I hope no mice come here today and if they do we're in trouble we have mice traps everywhere we have rat traps we have bait traps we have gels for certain bugs that we their initial what was their initial I think you me I think if somebody will on occasion I know they use the word rats but I've not seen a rat or in the inside of the Union did send us one picture that we confirmed that they were claiming was a rat that we confirmed was a and it it's mostly M this I want mostly M but I would not rule out the fact that a rat could come in this building it could if it wanted to it would find can find a way to get in here sometimes there through a garage in the morning when they open it up they let the buses out you name it it's these buildings are warm at night there's food here that's what we try to prevent if some them coming in if they do come in we try to Target them the biggest thing that they can do is to reported maybe it's great that they went on the school committee and said hey there's a mice in my classroom that's fine because the minute they do that we attack that area and that's the way A Pest Management program works is reporting and keeping the food out of their out of their noses so someone says I have a mouse in my room in 3:15 315 gets surrounded by glue traps now we hopefully knock down some type of future infestation and we catch them out so it's not being it's not being hidden it's being active I mean I would never say that there was no pest road because that my job is to prevent infestations and that's what we do and I just have to say that the custodians that work for the school department are absolutely unbelievable they respond within minutes if they get one of these calls and I've seen it happen in a couple of different instances where they're there immediately they take take it very seriously we were offended by the comments from the teachers well I was I wasn't offed because I understand what it's like to see a mouse as a teacher and freak out that doesn't amaze me that somebody's doing that but when you look at the big picture and you know you got an exterminator coming twice a month and that he's filling out reports saying how's the activity how the bait boxes are they being eaten no if the bait isn't being eaten there's two things you either don't have any mice or they're avoiding the bait and you got them in the wrong place when you're seeing them eating it you know you got mice but you're addressing so that's the way it works we look at the activity on the baits and we surround it if we're not seeing activity here on the bait but we're saying they're hearing noise over here that there's Mouse in you know a certain classroom will move them around or or get more aggressive than in that area and you can track it I mean every Mouse we've caught is tracked every Bait Box that's been affected is tracked and we can see activity non-activity sometimes it's high activity now we know all right it's ramping up over here at this particular dumpster area let's get a little more over there so there's a you know I'm confident in our exterminator and it's you know it's not nobody sees so when they see a mouse they don't see the activity that goes on and the the aggression that we're going after it with all the complaints that I would say that I get I've I've never this was never one of them so and I don't think it was until it was on the news that's that's concern I have is I'm coming on the tail end of it and it sounds like the PIP pipe is coming through through uh that we need the PIP Piper to get rid of them and so I mean people can make accusations you're addressing it it it's minimal it's get on with life I mean how many have them in their house to consider the source and we do have that too but I also understand their concern then you see a mouse you freak out you know and panic are two different things I know but it's natural and how it's presented there there's a mechanism got to be a form goes into and it's taken care of that's the most effective way is to report it yeah and some people say I've had a mouse in my classroom for three years never report never reported it because we have all the track records of the reports that come in because we give them to the Exterminator right so you know sometimes people can get there's also people trying to save the mice just so you know who have taken their moue straps and throwing them in the trash so that we don't Hur little Mickey Mouse so I'm going to assume theci just animal yeah I just want to say I know one of the people that spol on the RS and we're talking about them running rampid in the locker rooms didn't even work at the school right so it's like all hear say but then I'm grateful for people like phys teachers that do work here that say I've been there for a couple years I've never seen one but you don't hear from that all you hear is the negative that's what I mean so we can't always listen to people that assume but I would it's like everything in r but I'm not I'm not we're listening and this is evident it's the person out there that may pick up a paper or may I got to be kid and this is we don't need this publicity so I mean it's it's hard to combat that and I I know that um principal Bowen did email I think there were three people that night who spoke about seeing rodents at the high school in particular and um principal bow and reached out to all three of them directly and said please tell me where you saw them please give me more information so that we can address it all three of them said oh I didn't see it somebody there it is but we're R ass sure that it's it's under control it's under control for sure but the for us to say we've never had a r never seen her at that's not true that's not true they're throughout the city throughout the Commonwealth what other complaints did they have um I'm I'm not familiar with Mo yeah one of them their complaints was Plumbing issues Plumbing issues will if you own or live in a house you're going to get them there if you counted how many toilets we have in this building and sinks okay they there's there's T they're addressed the problems are addressed yeah so that's the thing is that to attack the problem we're not going to say whenever some kid decides he's going to take all those brown paper towels and Stu it down a toilet you have a major Plumbing problem in your building that's going to have to be addressed and so the other thing that I want to add in addition to our custodians we have a phenominal maintenance team um which which includes plumbers electricians um tra you have tra people you're not calling in they're here exactly they're here and and Carl they deploy very quickly everywhere depending on the degree of the emergency um and they take care of everything and I'll tell you it's a skeleton's death yeah it may it's no Phantom maintenance stuff but they're very small and they react you'll find the plumber reac into an electrical problem the electrical problem just to get it under control and it's it's who's closest and who can get there the fastest to make it safe all right that's electrical what's going on with the Hill School the Hill School start the air so the air conditioning we like anything else we own a house something's going to break what broke is something that's been constantly maintained over years it's a sealed air conditioner compressor it's met its end of life we going out to get a new unit and they're telling us it's a 10 we custom made compressor that we need to wait we're on week eight week two of a 10 heard that it was a specific design not just off the shelf compressor it's what we put in the Hill school so it's a DAC system it's what we put in it's what we all decided would be best for that building no but I'm saying is the replacement is available it's just going to take they have to make it so anything they we need we tell them yeah it's custom made but that's how they build all their equipment no I just I'm trying to get a picture as to how come but it's addressed do anything else it's just to look at it like they don't just have things on the Shelf they made a giant piece of equipment for our school up in Canada that's where all this stuff comes from if you need a new piece you call them and say we need a new piece they'll say no problem we'll make that for you but to the superintendent the classes or whatever the recommendation was to ship them in from A to B or yeah that one of the smaller it's actually better it's the coolest side of the building on on but it's a address it's in the process the process our fear is that we're in our there's a big push to kind of speed up that 10 weeks a lot of times people cover themselves and say 10 weeks can we get in six that's what we're doing so we get all our feelers we got some good connections out in the industry and just say hey get get it as fast as get it to us as fast as humanly possible and do you have one on the Shelf is one of our first question their answer was no and it's only one portion of the building that's affected so not like there's no AC in building most of it right yeah out of the two it's a third of the building and of that third that's the smallest section of the building it's only two floors it's not the cafeteria it's not the third story level it's the second no my concerns on everything that's been addressed so far there's a solution in the M it's not something be inducted it's not something that the biggest concern is if we may open up first day of school with this issue and that's what we're trying to beef okay that's the clock we're up again thank you John what why does it feel so early School hasn't been open that long I'm not saying you nothing to do with you it's just you know like no 10 year warranty no 15E warranty nothing you don't have a 10year warranty on anything in that school that we other than the roof right this is this is hbac equipment when you HVAC equipment you have a onee warranty and that's from the time you turn it on so that most of the time those things are expired by the time you open the door to the school which was which was the case in this case and it's every case because company says I'll give you a 10 year guarantee on your refrigerator you don't get it your hot water eater you don't get it no someone hit someone hit me with that on the it's just yeah but's not that old how could that have gone and I said I don't know you mean you don't know but it's 10 years old and the piece of equipment is probably 12 years old and people are surprised to realize that the Hill school is 10 years old now I didn't realize that till I just look at some old yeah I I mean when you look at our news we say we have all new schools and you look at the School in the Ry Marsh that's 19 years old right that's when things start to break so I'm be more surprised that the Hill school it's actually more concerning than anything that we're losing equipment after 10 years where that's why I want to ask you know but that's just the world we live in now if you're people ask those questions and we had the answers oh I that was the first thing I asked is what was the warranty on that piece of equipment you did one than one person said to how could it the building has an Old ET on you know what the hell and I'm like I don't know I have to find out no I I agree but that's you know when you're up against I get you you know and nobody's in the business to make anything that last forever either because and they don't keep that's lost money all right uh any member of the committee anything else Stacy John no sir I'm Al thank you for coming Alicia thank you for coming any member present would add detract our uh can I just say thank you Kyle for sitting over there the night of all complaints and sitting there and taking it and being patient I'll be honest I I hear both sides and I know that they have some reasons for do they you know that was part of you know some of their frustrations I'll take the message anyway I can get it so you can email me you can call me you can tell a friend or you can come up in front of the school committee and tell your concerns but there's much better ways to report a problem I can tell you that but I heard them loud and clear I'll tell you you know and the I heard from the custodians CU I asked was basically what they said to me was some of the teachers are the biggest offenders they leave food out in their rooms and that's if you want to see what happens basic maybe that should have been our comeback the cleanest sweep every classroom out into the hallway every night just go around and look at the piles you'll know who the teacher is who's not and that's how we find them and quietly tell the principal this this this room's a little lot of hand we're finding all kinds of things on the floor that are edible whether it's the kids snacks or grapes or razor and that's next thing you know that's where the mice is yeah so if you wonder why they how they get up on the third floor it's because there's somebody who's not doing the right thing with their food and that's why it takes a group effort to control these rodents it's not just the Exterminator and a bunch of traps it's it's an effort of cons you know limiting the F right they may come and look but they won't stay along and be happy but the difference is this protocol you don't hear your laundry out in public I mean it's it's it's it's embarrassing if it's true so be it but it's casting a lot of Shadows and people talking about it and it's not fair to those that are doing the correct thing but that's by Design amen that's no that's unfortunately that's what it is right thank thank everybody for coming and thank you again meting the Jour give me a number