##VIDEO ID:HsUrPcjU_u8## this this is the U September 25th 2024 meeting of the municipal land use board the burrow of rivered and um it's being broadcast uh via zoom and Miss steinley will you please read the zoom statement yes thank you this meeting of the municipal land use Board of the burough river is being held remot and recorded via Zoom due to burough council chambers unavailability and is in compliance with the provisions of the open public meetings act and Associated regulations notice of this remote meeting was published in the Bergen Record posted on the front doors of bur Hall and posted on the bur's website the notice included the dial and login information necessary for public participation and access to this meeting remotely a copy of the agenda for this meeting was made available on the burs website near the posting of the meeting notice and included the dial and login information during the public comment period of this meeting if you would like to make a public comment please press the raise hand button on Zoom or dial star9 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand the board will address You by name or the last four digits of your telephone number you may mute and unmute Yourself by pressing the microphone icon or zoom on Zoom or dialing star six on your telephone keypad you must dat your name and address prior to making a public comment will we have roll call please yes thank you uh Mr Mayor is I just want to put on the record that he can't be here tonight because he has a conflict he's uh had to cover the traffic and safety meeting tonight okay all right so the mayor is excused Mr caslin is also excused Miss Boland is absent at the moment Mr merman yeah Mr peffer here Mr Craig yeah Mr kigo here cman glass yeah Marina did you hear what I said about the mayor I think my wifi dropped out oh yep we heard and he'll be excused tonight thank you thank you and Mr Gibbons here and Mr bed is absent at the moment also present um the our board planner Mr Barons our board engineer Mr Costa and the zoning officer Mr dkin good okay so we'll move on we uh have some um housekeeping to do um there's no correspondence and we'll move to the approval of minutes um we have uh the eight just the 82824 minutes available and um we uh can uh discuss and vote on those uh if as needed um I will state that um it would have been nice to have them in time for the 91 cannabis The Sweet Spot meeting however if somebody has comments please uh comment on the meet on the minutes and we'll go forward from there not hearing any comments I'll accept a motion to accept them all moved M Mr Cay with the motion second second from Mr Gibbons and Mr the councilman was not present at that meeting so we can just do a Voice vote okay um all in favor I I all oppose any exensions okay let's move on to the next set of meetings we have the 9 1124 um minutes are available um does anybody have any comments on the on the all right um not hearing any I'll accept the motion to accept them I move second second I got a a mo motion from Mr cray and second from Mr Gibbons and um Mr or councilman class was also um excused from that meeting so we can we can just do a Voice vote with the other members all in favor I I um opposed extensions okay so we're done with that one we also have um on the business section the memorialization of Sweet Spot River red LC and apparently that's not ready at present so is that's correct Miss Marina yes correct that'll be at the next meeting okay very good all right um moving right along so we're gonna we're gonna go to the completeness review for Quality home developers LLC 312 web Avenue block 302 302 lot one um this is a proposed subdivision that plans uh two lots and it needs a review by the land use board um for compliance with the uh requirements of the burrow code chapter 350 site plan review um we're going to look at the uh acceptance uh the completion first um Marina you want to review the mailings and so forth so the mailings were provided um by the applicant attorney and they were acceptable for the board to have jurisdiction over the application tonight but that is separate from completeness just so everyone's aware okay um anything from you on completeness uh no not at this no okay um anything from Mr kuster's office regarding completeness Mr chairman good evening members of the board uh good evening um yeah just for the record so Tom Barrett uh Marina and myself uh I think Greg from my office and I think that was that was basically it on a conference call this afternoon so the thing is this the the applicant has submitted a basically a sketch plot um to the board and under the the ordinance 366 uh they're requesting a waiver from that um and then basically two things if I could just read it into the record so it's a minor subdivision if this board says it's a minor subdivision that's the first thing and if you go into the definition under 3664 minor subdivision and basically any subdivision containing not more than three lots fronting on an existing minor Street not involving any new street or road or the extension of Municipal facilities and not adversely affecting the development of the remainder of the parcel or ajoining property and that's that's the question and not in conflict with any provision or portion of the master plan official map chapter 416 zoning or this chapter um so basically in my opinion what that says is that you need to show these things but they're requesting waivers from it and the only people that can actually allow that to happen is the is the the compliment of the board or the the approval of the board in a majority vote I would imagine go back to Marina so that's the question and until the the board does that technically if you don't Grant it then the application is incomplete and it would have to come back with the revised plans in accordance with the chapter so I don't know if everybody understands that and if I'm 100% wrong Marina just just jump in no that's that's accurate so the applicant submitted the the um subdivision plan and is asking for waivers from the specific requirements of the burrow code and the board has to decide that tonight um by granting the completeness with the waiver with the waivers okay um Mr Barons um good evening board members uh yes Mr merman uh as Mr CA stated we had a conversation earlier today just to try to understand um the requirements of the ordinance um generally in agreement with his uh interpretation of the ordinance and so the the specific wavers uh I think that the applicant has to request from the board are one um sorry I'm just reading my notes Here one uh structures within 200 ft of the property another pertains to the uh location of utility connections uh as well as storm water improvements and then finally it requires um that the the building envelope be drawn accurately on the the subdivision which at this juncture the the property currently has the address on web Avenue and the address for the corner lot actually dictates where the building envelope can be placed because the address dictates where the rear yard and the side yard would be and essentially they sort of have it flipped at the moment and so that's another uh piece of information that would have to be corrected but as far as I can tell at minimum it's at least those three things okay and Mr mman if I may do Mr Barons and Mr Costa do you have objections to the board granting those waivers um that I have objections to again here's basically the ordinance um says that the planning board has to look at all these things and it actually says that it has to protect the um the health safety and Welfare of the public and the residents I think it even goes to say the residents of River Edge um there's also another section because when we hung up today we Greg and I went through this pretty closely just to make sure we didn't miss anything um whereas in under D so it's under let me just give you the right [Music] citation 366 D14 which is the design standards and it goes AB uh c and d e and it keeps it keeps going but it has to meet those the requirements the design standards if you don't if you don't Grant the waivers uh one of it says whether there is a question as to the suitability of a lot or lots for their intended use du to the factors such as rock formation flood conditions or similar circumstances the planning board May after adequate investigation withhold the approval of the Lots so that's in there um It also says these rules regulation and standards shall be considered the minimum requirements for the protection of the public health safety and Welfare of the citizens of the burough River Edge um and again the planning board May permit the variances the planning board uh can basically you know they need to do you guys need to vote whether or not you want to do that one other caveat um if it is approved if you grant the wa and it is ultimately approved because it is as of right because of the sizes you still they would still have to come back under soil moving believe it or not to this board because there wouldn't be an existing condition it would be if they decide to build they would actually need to seek approval from the planning board for soil movement so at some point in the future if they decided okay we're going to subdivide it we're not going to sell the house um or the Lots rather they're going to sell them or they're going to develop them they still need to come back to this board for soil mve M and then provide all that information under the soil mement yeah but that wouldn't that's not what we're here for tonight but again you would they would basically you'd be hearing it and then they would be coming back before they could actually build anything so the question is that's only if they move a 100 yards or more right no the way the soil ordinance is written it's existing no addition it's not new so well that that'll that would have to be worked out later so that's not what's before the board tonight right that's it other than that that would be it okay Miss St yep um recognizing the waivers that are required can um we move ahead with the application uh complete and sufficient to move ahead with the application and during the review of the application include the discussion of the waivers and approval and testimony so forth so so right now the Mr Barrett is asking for a waiver from these from complying with these requirements at the time of completeness okay that doesn't mean that as a condition of approval the board can't ask that he provide all these requirements in the in the plot plan and the final final subdivision plan so that we're just a grant so if the board presents a motion right now it will be a motion to accept the waivers for the purpose of completeness okay and then we can further discuss them later is that the merits of them is that it essentially unless Mr Barrett has an objection to all right um okay so Mr [Music] I mean we re very recently we've we've sent people back to give us more exact plans uh before we hear any arguments um if and then I'm not comfortable granting waivers without knowing you know where where we're going with this so we we have some concerns from our professionals I'd rather have all the information we can before we hear anything yeah and I I'll go one step further the way that ordinance was written with Mr Costa R Us it sounds like the people who wrote that ordinance went out of their way to say these are the minimal requirements so I don't think we should be so quick to just set them aside you know we have our procedure here in River Edge it's spelled out I think we should follow it yeah because I think there's some concerns on that property anyway with you know potential drainage problems and um I I think we need to have all the information we can before we're granting waivers for for something like that yes Mr chairman question yes can we um would it be appropriate to hear from Mr Barrett to clarify why the waiver issue has to be decided in conjunction with the completeness issue Mr chairman uh I I don't think it does Mr feffer I think that the board can de the application complete and as was suggested that during the course of the hearings if in fact more information is required to enable it to make the appropriate determination certainly we'll provide that additional information I think I think we need to keep in mind that what we're talking about are the creation of two conforming Lots uh they'll be uh they meet the standards of the ordinance they're 75 by 100 ft uh with respect to the address issue I spoke to Neil Carol yesterday who in conjunction with the tax assessor James anino um handles the assignment of addresses he indicated to me that it's not an issue they will simply issue Sixth Avenue addresses for both Lots um thereby alleviating one of uh Mr Baron's concerns um so I don't know if that's putting the court before the horse uh or what but I mean again if the board were to ultimately uh deem it appropriate to issue an approval conditioned on the addresses being Sixth Avenue addresses that's certainly acceptable and I think that's been done in the past um I think that the the waivers I think we need to really focus on what they say and that that is um all existing structions structures within the portion to be subdivided that's been shown and they're all going to be removed anyway in order to create vacant land and also when deemed necessary by the planning board all existing structures within 200 feet of the portion to be subdivided so again if the board feels it necessary in the course of the hearing to know all of the houses within 200 feet then so be it um you know then we'll you know we'll have those uh drawn to the best of our ability now we have to realize that we are not entitled to enter on to other people's property to depict with 100% certainty the location of their house garage what have you so you know I don't know uh how exactly accurate it would be but nevertheless you know if if necessary we would make our best effort to do so uh similarly the the second waiver is from the requirement for the location of existing and proposed property lines that we have also the location of existing streets that we have it's on the northwest corner of web and 6th Avenue uh wooded areas and rock formations this is on a 15,000 foot piece of property we're talking about and all streets roads streams and wooded areas within 200 ft of the subdivision this is an entirely developed neighborhood there aren't no wooded areas to my knowledge there are no streams I can't say that with absolute certainty but I don't recall any streams in that area and the streets and the roads are there there's no changes that are occurring we're talking about taking a piece of property dividing it in half end the story going then to get a building permit on which certain requirements have to be met one of which uh May well be a soil movement permit which then as Mr Costa says may be required to come back before this board but I think the simple question before the board is are you going to deny the division of the property into two conforming Lots which the law says that my client is entitled to to have those two lots I think all the other information is is basically there um I don't know of any bridges in the area there may be a culvert there may there are certainly drain pipes through in the road we have SE sewers and uh you know sanitary sewers and storm sewers they're in the road there this this area was developed 70 years ago 80 80 years ago in the 40s I think so 80 years ago well that stuff's there anyway I think you should deem it complete and we should move on just just for the record looking at Google Earth there is a brook within about a h a block of the house okay an area and there is an area that I would kind of say is wooded off 8th Avenue so that's what our ordinance requires again I well certainly we can we can locate the brook so if I may the issue about granting waivers for completeness purposes is saying yes the applicant hasn't Prov hasn't met the exact criteria of what's in the ordinance but can the board still understand the application before it and if you feel that you can understand the application based on what's presented so far then it might be it uh then you you might feel comfortable granting the waivers and approving completeness that Mr Barrett's already stated that as an a condition he would provide all the additional information if if needed or during the course of the actual hearing so um that's what the board has to decide now now is just whether what's been provided is complete and whether you can accept the waivers for the purpose of completeness so can we just have our professionals just advise us as such I mean I heard hesitation so if they can just say go ahead and and do it Bard I'd feel more comfortable sta you want to comment basically uh Mr chairman again I think I my opinion submit all the information because I I think based on where it is submit the information that's required in the ordinance um and come back have it and then have deem it complete at that point that's my that's my professional opinion that's my personal opinion um show us what you're doing because again the other side of the coin is the Lots basically have the they're slow they they go from um just use a number from from zero in the street to minus 10 towards the back of the lot so there could be required um retaining walls there could be other stuff required that actually this ordinance talks about if there is retaining walls also I said to Mr Barrett not that I want to play attorney but I don't believe he he even our one thing our ordinance does not it talks about a minus subdivision it talks about a major subdivision when you when you read it very closely it talks about sketch plat preliminary plat and final plot so I don't think you even put an application in for all of those so you'd have to come back anyway even if the board said okay approve this mons that's this is a minor this is a minor subdivision it doesn't you still have to put the requirements in of what it says and it doesn't differentiate minor from major it doesn't I I understand I understand that and that's why they're asking for the waivers for the requirements of the preliminary plat and the the 200 foots the structures within 200 feet I don't Mr Barett did you do that do what a waiver from asking for a preliminary and final subdivision I asked for subdivision approval Mr Costa your comments tonight fly in the face of your September 16th letter and I will read one sentence of it at this time we recommend the application be deemed complete period And I I I I ISS should us with all due respect because I certainly don't want to fight I don't want to well this is what your report says but quite frankly let the board vote you've heard my opinions I've read the ordinance closely I issued a supplemental letter and in my opinion mean based on what this board has done in the past subdivision on Howland Avenue showed a house showed walls showed grading showed drainage and if you look very closely and read this ordinance that's what's required if the board wants to wave it and if you felt you've you've noticed properly what you're requesting then the board can vote on it that's it you've heard my opinion I think the information should be given to the board and the public that's it nothing more nothing less just just one point the the subdivision on Howland Avenue required variances that that falls within the definition of a major subdivision according to the River Edge ordinance this this subdivision does not require any variances there there in I mean that's one of the differences between those two development again I don't I don't know the homes You're Building I don't know if the homes require variances I don't know any of the above well again that would be determined they apply for a building permit if they apply for uh a permit which requires a variance they have to come back to the board to get the variance but if they apply uh for a building permit I don't know the exact procedures that are followed between you and Mr dekin but if if you deemed it necessary that there be drainage facilities to develop a lot if this lot stood alone and somebody came in for a building permit you don't send them to the board to determine whether or not they need a retaining wall you and Mr dekin working together determine what is necessary before the permit is issued that's exactly what we have here we're going to have two vacant Lots on which two single family houses are going to be erected for which they have to get building permits is that not part of the building permit review process to determine whether or not drainage is required um Mr Barrett I think I think we see we understand your point um the councilman has is hand raised I'm going to go off camera because my Wi-Fi is not that good and I think I'll get better uh audio if I go off camera um this is really for the board um can you guys hear me okay yes okay so I agree with Mr Costa let me explain why if we don't have a a complete survey we don't even know what we're not getting right we don't even know what's missing we don't even know what we're waving unless we have a complete survey and like Mr cheningo said and Mr Gibbons said there's a reason why we have those requirements in our ordinance so I'm concerned that if we don't have a complete survey we don't even know what we're missing and until the application's complete it shouldn't be deemed complete just just to clarify the applicant did provide a survey of the property of existing no I'm saying a survey that meets No Marina I'm saying a survey that meets all the requirements in the ordinance right that doesn't permit anything that they're requesting to be wave okay Mr Barons let's hear from you Sor I'm just trying to find the mute button here so um you know I understand the issue on the one hand the application's fairly simple trying to subdivide the parcel into two seemingly conforming uh Parcels but on the other hand we do have this element of required information and just I'm looking rereading the definition of minor subdivision it talks about um any subdivision containing not more than three and not adversely affecting the development of the remainder of the parcel or adjoining property so the question is does the board have enough information to understand that if these are developed and it's understood that that's the intent right to create new two new building lots that we can allow the subdivision to move forward with you know and believe that it would not adversely impact the neighbors recognizing the topographic conditions tree removal Etc so that seems to be the the issue at hand not just merely the the new invisible line that's created but how this plays out and what gets developed and do we have enough information to ensure that there's no adverse impacts to surrounding property okay thank you so Marina yeah um I guess we're at the point where I think we have to put this to the vote of the board as to completeness and provide all the um information I make a statement go ahead Mr D as far as this application the beginning of this it's a conforming lot that is being subdivided in two conforming Lots um the fact that they have to come back for soil moving because the projects that go on those properties will be over 100 cubic yards um and at that point all the questions that you're bringing up uh would be brought at those uh at those uh at that time so um I think uh a stipulation stating that they would have to come back uh to the board which uh States over 100 cubic yards um I think can all be addressed I think all they're looking for now is a subdivision of that lot um and as far as drainage retaining walls things like that that all comes into play uh when uh the proposed structures are being proposed to go on those lots okay thank you Mr merman yes so a couple of thoughts here first of all we have our procedures here and I think as a land use board we've said over and over we'd like them follow this is not the first time that they're not followed and it's not the first time that we're going to send the applicants back possibly to get us the documents that should have been submitted in the first place and I'd like you know future applicants to know that they should submit all the documents that are required in the first place we don't want to Grant waivers we want everything before us secondly we don't know secondly we don't know how these constructions may affect the joining properties and some of this information may be gleaned from what is missing here and that's what at least what I've heard here and I think that's important because we don't want to just right now willly Neil you say yes we're going to wave and we're going to listen we're going to Grant and then all of a sudden the project is already proceeding but it affects ajoining property owners and now well why was why were these waivers granted then people will look to us why are you just granting them if if it says in the ordinance itself these are minimum requirements and if they're not minimum requirements why are we making some people jump through the hoops and not others if this was just one question that we were talking about it would be okay perhaps but it seems it's at least three three or four different questions so that's my take on this thank you Mr chairman than go ahead uh I don't disagree with uh what Mr chinigo is saying in principle but I think that we're we're sort of uh blending or confusing two different issues on the one hand we want to be able to ask as many questions as we have of the applicants and get as much information from the applicant to assure that we can be comfortable with approving the application and if after the process of asking all these questions and hearing testimony we decide that we don't have that assurance and we're not comfortable approving the application then we vote no or we send them back to get more information but the first issue which I think is a separate issue is whether there's enough information just for the application to be heard is there documentation before us that tells us very clearly what the application is that to me is what completion is all about do we have enough information to understand what the application is if so then we approve completeness and then we go on to the second phase which is to elicit testimony ask questions gather information and then decide is this an application that is worth approving or rejecting or that we want to set conditions on approval or do we want still more information at that point so you know my my view of this is that it's better for us to have an informed decision an informed hearing we have the applicant the applicant I assume has Witnesses here to talk to us about the application and then we can make a decision at that point rather than just say we have a lot of questions we don't have enough information with the documents are not clear and so go back and and get more because what's going to happen is they're going to go back and get more and they're going to submit more information and we're still going to have to have a hearing and and question them and get testimony before we can decide so why not do that now if if at least we can understand what the application is about then let's go forward let them give their testimony let them give their evidence let them make their arguments and then we could decide is that sufficient to approve it or do we need more that's that's my view of it thank you okay thank you all right now it's my turn I've visited this site several times I've walked the site personally um I've also driven a neighborhood I've also been a resident of river for over 40 years and have dealt with a lot of the uh improvements of Riveredge I'm also a licensed engineer all right in the state of New Jersey it's my opinion that we should um hear this application and compile what we want additionally and they'll come back and provide that and that's the route I think we should go tonight I think it's uh kind of sort of foolish um not to we can still ask for what we want and they'll come back with it but uh not to go forward I think is a uh it's not the proper thing to do so uh I've said my piece and I guess my question to Marina steinley is where do we go from here um the councilman has his hand raised and then I can uh explain okay I just have a procedural question are there people in the public at this meeting yeah there there are seven members of the public here okay so I'm just there be a point where they're allowed to speak before there's any type of vote not for completeness this is not a public issue okay okay I mean to to what Mr feffer said um I understand your point but again it's what this is a vote or a determination related to completeness we heard from both of our professionals about whether the applications complete or not so we have to make a decision as to whether we want to wave requirements in our ordinance and my concern again is that this thing could Advance without us knowing something that should have been submitted that's the purpose of requiring a complete application so that you have all the information and sometimes like Mr feffer said maybe we can go backwards and require something but maybe we can't I don't think we want to in my opinion I recommend not taking that risk and requiring complete application otherwise again who knows what we don't know ask this thing advances okay thank you thank you so now Marina we're back to my question so I just need a motion to deem the application complete and Grant the waivers or not so if someone wants to make the motion then we'll take a vote I move we accept the application as complete all right so I have a motion from Mr cray that it's complete and authorize the waivers yes okay a second I'll second it second for Mr feffer all right Mr merman yes Mr feffer yes Mr cig yes Mr Cano oh you're you're muted yes all right M councilman glass no Mr Gibbons no okay the motion passes okay so then we'll move on uh with the application I guess um the applicant um can present um their their case I assume Mr Barrett that you're representing the applicant correct Mr M would you like to present your case and we'll move on now certainly uh at this Point um I would like to uh call upon Mr Michael who is the principal of the uh company which owns the property uh just to give a a broad overview of his intent then we're g to call upon Mr mcclelen who's our professional engineer uh as to the drawings that he has performed to dat all right Mr Michael if you please raise your right hand you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give will be the the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record sure first name is David last name is Michael m i c h a l I live at 906 Lotus Avenue in orell New Jersey and Mr Michael you are the only member of the LLC which owns the property correct and can you tell you uh tell the board uh your intent if the subdivision is granted how you'll develop the property at this moment since we don't know um if it was granted or not uh we don't really have an idea of what size homes are going to be placed on there so for now we're just looking for the the subdivision and then from there we'll conform with all the uh requirements from the building department and the zoning so it is your intent to comply with all of the relevant ordinances control ing the development uh of the property in that zone correct so there'll be no requests for any side yard variances front yard variances there'll be full compliance with all of the setbacks yes and similarly with the uh lock coverage the percentages that are applicable to the development correct and they there's a new ordinance in place I know you and I have discussed it um setting aside a portion of the property for um improvements you know patios uh things of that nature correct they'll be compliance with that as well yes so it's your intent to build a fully compliant home on each of the Lots correct and and of course in that regard uh when you submit your plans to the building department uh if in fact then a soil movement permit is required uh you'll obviously comply with that and if necessary come back before the board yes so you haven't you haven't done any studies yet as to whether or not um what type of drainage will be required or whether or not you'll need a retaining wall or any of that any of that I'll have to defer to the engineer on that information all right I have nothing further of Mr Michael Mr chairman I don't know if you want me to proceed with Mr mclen and then Mr Michael obviously is going to stay uh and answer questions after the engineer's presentation or you want to ask him questions now whatever the board's pleasure um let's let's hear from your engineer okay all right Mr mclan please raise your right hand you swear airm the testimony that you're about to give is will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name provide your address for the record sure it's Sean Mullen last name is MCC l l l a n business address is 84 Gettysburg way Lincoln Park New Jersey and could you provide the board with some background and on your qualifications and that your license is still in good standing sure um I graduated from New Jersey Institute of Technology in 199 97 with the Bachelor of Science in civil engineering I've been a licensed um professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 2004 testified at boards in front of uh Hudson Bergen Essex Bic and Mars counties uh as well as in front of this board many times and my license is still in good standing thank you Mr mlen so you had the opportunity to the sketch plat required by by the Burrow's ordinance I did and maybe you could um show do you have a share the screen and show the plat sure just let me know when you can see that okay it's up yep we can see it so it's just a um go through real quickly uh minor subdivision is the there the title um it's dated July 22nd 2024 last revised August 27th 2024 and you I'm gonna did I I think that this was submitted previously to the board the revised yeah August yes okay perhaps we should Mark that though as A1 sure I will Mark that as A1 thank you so if you perhaps just um describe the actual subdivision itself the proposed subdivision sure so I'll just briefly go through existing conditions um the property is in the R1 residential Zone lot Aira required for the zone is 7500 and we have uh 15,000 square F feet so we're two times larger than what's required um there's an existing home on the property with a detached garage the um existing home um is non-conforming as far as front yard on six on Sixth Avenue it's only 21.6 feet where 30 feet is required so the removal of that existing home will eliminate a non-conformity um simply what we're proposing to do is to cut this lot in half um as I said it's it's currently 100 by um 150 and we're looking to make 275 by 100 lots that will both be fully conforming um as you can see here the the dark blue around the edges is the existing property line and the red line here is subdivision line creating two equal lots um we plan to remove all the structures on the property uh based upon my field investigation it appears that the existing home does not have any type of drainage system um the homes that we will be proposing if if it's required or not um will both be equipped with uh storm water management um most likely some type of seepage pit or a ctech chamber that will completely um eliminate any water uh from the roofs of the two proposed homes to to leave the site um that's that's pretty pretty much it uh and I'd be happy to answer any questions based based on your observation of the uh the Topography of the site what what what what would the developer be looking at in order to properly develop it in your opinion sure so uh most likely we we would have retaining walls along the rear or it's uh the West property line this blue line here just to help uh flatten out the area to provide a you know a more usable rear yard and at the same time flattening out that area will will you know help reduce the the rate um that you know the water comes off the property so current currently the the water drains um to the West yeah so anything that falls on the property um drains that way and also anything that falls on the roof uh comes down the roof leaders and drains that way too so um you know the houses that we'd be proposing would be would be larger than this existing house and all that water that would fall onto those roofs would be contained whereas you know in Pre pre-existing conditions all that just runs off the property and and you have any idea of how high those retaining walls would have to be typically um you know I would always try and keep them uh 3 feet once you get the four feet you have to provide structural calculation um so you'd have a probably a three foot all depends on the house design too you know what type of how many steps that come out of the rear yard um from the first floor down to the patio that that all makes a difference um but just based on this topography it it probably be a three- foot high wall and you don't you don't see any issue though uh in developing the property so that it would not have any adverse impact on any of the neighbors whether to the west or to the north no no all with you know with the use of the the seepage pits or the or the ctech chambers um the amount of water that will run off the property post construction will be less than runs off the property currently thank you I have no further questions of Mr Mel Mr Barett you want to present any anybody else NOP that's all okay then we can go to the um to the board for questions of on the application um let's start with uh Mr faffer you have any questions of the applicant uh and his U uh professionals yes thank you Mr chairman um and I guess this is for um Mr Michael so first of all just to clarify all what you're asking the board tonight to approve is strictly subdividing the property for the purpose of constructing two single family homes one on each part of the the subdivided lot is that right you're muted that's correct and and these would each be a single family home is that right correct okay and you are aware are you that if if during the construction of either of these homes or both of these homes um the the nature of the construction requires um any kind of variance you will come back to this board to obtain such a variance correct and you're obviously going to uh obtain all necessary buildings permits for this construction correct yes and you are going to work with the burrow engineer to make sure that the construction is in compliance with all the building codes regarding drainage or any other uh soil issue or other construction related aspects to comply fully with the burrow ordinances and laws and requirements is that right that's correct are there any issues that you foresee right now um that you feel you might have to come back to the board with for um for approval or is it just premature now to go into that area it's a little premature but I don't see any um issues with the property um to be honest I wouldn't have bought the property if there was any variances uh that would have been required for any of the setbacks okay have have you already been in some level of communication with uh the borrow planner and and the engineers office not in regards to the construction of the structures just for the subdivision and that's through my engineer and my attorney okay and and are you assuring us that that is going to be a continuing dialogue and a continuing process of working with those yeah this is not my uh first house in River Edge or let alone in any of the towns in Bergie County um I I build quality homes and I want to stick to the setbacks and all the building codes that are in in River Edge um so I'm not going to look for anything outside of the V if there's a variance I'll comply with whatever the size of the lot is so that way I don't have to go for a variance can you tell us uh how many other houses you've built in River Edge uh sure uh there's the one on Wales um I forgot the address there's also 150 Valley uh 163 Valley uh I've also done 200 Valley um quite extensive amount of of homes here in Riveredge I was also a resident of River Edge before I got married and moved next town over okay I have no other questions thank you thank you Mr Feer Mr Craig any questions of the applicant no just um I just want to make sure I it was clear your your and actually I guess this is really more a question from M you build these two structures and do all the site preparation you talked about Etc your opinion is that this property will have less imp less negative impact on neighboring properties than currently exist Improvement in uh in again whether it's groundwater running off uh Etc but that there's going to be no negative impact on any of those Sean you're muted correct there'll be no negative impact on the enjoying properties um I we don't have any other questions thank you thank you Mr Craig Mr Chenango any questions of the applicant thank you I didn't hear I said no questions thank you Mr Morman thank you councilman GL any questions of the applicant yeah thank you Mr chair I just want to make sure the applicant um Mr Michael you're aware of the new ordinance and the new lock coverage restrictions in River Ed I just want to make and yes it it's a little bit different because now 5% of the lock coverage has to be reserved for what is it help me out um rear yard amenities so things like patios deck sheds Etc because homes were being built without them and then people were coming back to the board requesting variances so the lot coverage limits exclusive of that are now 30% I just want to make sure Mr Michael you're aware of that I am aware of that thank you anything else Mr councilman no thank you Mr M thank you um Mr Gibbons thank you I have a few questions um there are a number of trees I think I counted 34 or so on the um survey um what's to be had with all of the trees with adding two properties we're going to submit the paperwork required for the Shaden tree and uh we are in contact with Jason from the office um in terms of in in regards to the trees that are on the property and based on the approval of the chaden tree we'll remove accordingly so what what is your plan for all those trees those trees the ones that are inside the building will be removed but as you can see from the plot plan there's not too many inside of the purple line inside the setbacks of where the structures would be so everything within the lines is going to go for sure yes 100% unless it's a weed or some kind of um invasive species isues that needs to be removed in accordance to whatever the shade and tree commission uh discusses with us so that goes along with the the slope of the property and you know I I know I've heard from Mr mlen that there's going to be no impact you know but when I look at that property it's going right into the neighbors that dip is going right into the neighbors um you know and I have a concern with taking out a whole bunch of trees on a fair I don't want to call it wooded but a fairly covered lot with trees um it it you know and seeing that slope I I'm saying that there will be no change uh and that it'll be better is not really reassuring um you know seeing the difference in a 10 foot elevation from the front to the back um I'm very concerned that that neighbor behind you on web I think it is um it's tenness see water um you know so I I know Mr ml you've said a couple of times that there won't be but how do we know that that's the fact because we we have a lot of water problems in this town and the more houses like this that go up the more water problems we have right so the the the neor behind us in Web currently is getting all the water from the property and it's coming down um at you know on a steeper slope a higher velocity and it's also getting the water from the existing dwelling when the proposed dwelling is there all that roof water will be stored on site and then we're going to have a flatter backyard giving the water more time to per to to collect into the ground and uh a slower velocity so that the drainage situation will be much improved I I guess I'd just like to know exactly what will happen on that property to protect that neighbor back there it's a cleared lot for the most part and now he's going to have you know a house within I forget what our setback is but within you know 20 2 30 ft of his property right so I guess it we'll take um let me just share my screen we talking about this neighbor here yes okay so um when it rains the water falls on this roof comes shooting down the roof leader onto the ground and then and then off the property so we'll have a house that's let's see what the square footage of this is uh we'll have a house that's larger than this and it'll be more in this this pink lined area right so currently the water falls on the roof goes down roof layer off the property when we have a house here the water will fall on the roof go down the roof leader and get stored in the seepage pit so that'll be an improved situation in this lot you have a garage that does the same thing and you have you the house will sit somewhere in here so when it rains the water goes on the roof of the garage down the roof leader off the property and then in this area you see how steep it is but we'll have a house here so you know when it rains at first you know the water go that goes on the grass seeps into the property but once that grass gets saturated saturated then it runs off the property with the house there all that water is going to be contained plus the lot will be leveled off some giving the the water that falls on the Grass more time to to uh you know percolate to the ground and also slow the velocity so you know having that the hous is there will reduce the amount of water that runs off onto the adjacent property I just know every time we put in a new bigger house the neighbors are always coming back to us telling us that there's more water in their properties and I'm sure that's why we have seven people here tonight um Mr CER Mr Burns do you have an idea of how how tall a um retaining wall would need to be in that backyard I know Mr mclen said three feet but do we know how tall I I'm not going to ask for specifics but a general idea of how big that might need to be well I again I think it's if I can to the chair until you know the size of the house the grading in the backyard where they're putting the wall how they're going to do anything it's all speculation um to make a comment where the drainage is going to be all good one question did you do any soil testing do you know the conditions do you know anything that that will you know percolation test will be done but I'm saying you you you've testified you're saying it's going to be better than it is now this that have you done any of the above we have not done a peration test no okay so basically everything you're saying is quite frankly speculation until you do the testing until you put it in until you show it grade it that's not what we're here for tonight we're here basically to cut a line down the middle and show show two lots that's it agreed just just trying to answer the questions I've being asked but Mr C my my problem is that we we approve this and there are problems that that's you know that then we don't have any perview over it that's my concern all I'm saying is the testimony that I listen to is all speculation that's all basically that's it there there's nothing to back it up as far as the walls three feet quite frankly Mr McAllen you don't know that until you get the the architecturals what the house size is how you're going to grade the backyard what you're going to do as far as the trees wait a second does any of this have to do with our application tonight this is just a subdivision right right all this stuff has to come at the future date when they decide to come and put these much larger houses on this property and come tell us at that point that there's going to be less water on the others but they won't be coming back to us with that Mr Ken well I mean unfortunately that's the way that's the point all right they're not coming back because they're too smart to VAR all right Mr Gibb you want to continue I I'm I'm just putting it on record that I'm concerned that this will cause more water problems for the Neighbors Downstream and this is my chance to voice that um they won't be coming back before this board so you know we have a job to you know protect our town and that's what I'm trying to do and you're right about everything Bri Ryan you're right about everything so I'll I'll support you on that 100% thank you th those are my real concerns so you know I I'm concerned for those Neighbors in that area and you know I yeah that's my issues Mr chairman can I just ask a question of Mr Costa um because my my confusion now is if we if we say you know we're concerned about the water runoff and we're concerned about the retainage wall and and we're concerned about what's going to be built there then to to reject the application on that basis means that nothing gets built there and so so my question is before anything even if we approved the subdivision wouldn't the Builder still have to go at least in part through your office to discuss the drainage and and the water control and all of that and if it wasn't sufficient in your opinion you would tell them no go back and give me a better plan is that how it works basically correct but in this case again the way I read the ordinance for soil moving it's not an existing home they have I can't wave I don't believe I can wave jurisdiction they're going to come back to this board that's again reading the ordinance maybe Mr Barrett's going to disagree with me um but again if the board goes forward on this you you're putting a line on the if this gentleman sells it does whatever builds it they're going to come back to this board individually for for whatever houses and whatever improvements where's the soil coming from and how they're doing all the above where they could have done it in one step submitted the information and the board votes and moves on but if they didn't obviously they're not doing that so but they can still come back at a later date is that what you're saying if I if I read the ordinance correctly they're coming back at a at some point in the separate dat if to decide to move forward and build yes okay all right thank you thank you Mr f um Mr G anything else no I'm good right now thank you you're good right now okay thank you so I guess I'm the last one um I will say I Echo the concerns of the board but I I think right now we're here for a subdivision of apostal land and I would like to um ask Mr Michael um a question or two um you um you're basically just going for a pure subdivision um we'll have some um caveats on uh but you want to explain what you're going to do in the mean once you get these subdivision approval are you going to remove the existing structures of house and uh house and the garage we're going to comply with the building codes of the city of River Edge whatever is required for the future structures my my question is if you're granted subdivision approval right now do you plan to right now remove um the structures that are there not at the current moment not at the current moment okay when you do remove them obviously I assume you're going to remove all those asphal uh walkways and so forth that are there the driveway and all correct if they're not usable for the new project yes yes okay um is it it's it's my observation that this dwelling is unoccupied is that correct correct okay um what what I would like you to do um is to uh secure the building bought it up because it's right now be gonna I foresee it as becoming an attractive nuisance I would like I would like I would like to see it ordered um so at least prohibit uh entry from whomever okay with all due respect would you rather that I just put a black fence around it instead of making it look like an abandoned I I appreciate that but I would really like to see the uh the doors and the windows especially on the lower level secured with plywood or something similar sure I I think it it be a lot better for the community safety of um people wandering into it and using it for whatever of course upon approval we'll get that done tomorrow morning first thing of the morning beautiful um okay um Miss steinley I think uh um unless Mr pasta or or planner have any further comments I think maybe we can move to the uh public comment period I I do have a couple quick ones Mr Mar okay you so um prepared a review memo um which just touches on a few mostly procedural items one does have to do with the Demolition of the structures that um point I tried to make was that the demolition actually has to occur or should occur before the subdivision is perfected reason being that if you do do it the opposite way and have the division first technically there would be nothing to compel anyone to knock the structures down the one existing non-conforming uh house with the non-conforming front yard setback could in theory be developed I'm not suggesting that that's the applicant's intent but again I think because we don't know who's going to own these or develop these necessarily that again the demolition occur before the subdivision be perfected or or some condition similar too so that we ensure that that actually takes place um second point just reading again on page two of my memo um that you know these lots are each intended to accommodate one single family dwelling that that the dwellings fit within the character of the neighborhood and they all that they also be differentiated somewhat so that they're not identical um you know with respect to color or um you know even architectural features not that they have to be radically different but again not the same exact style of home being that the lots are are going to be the exact same size with respect to lot orientation I I touched upon the address issue that that be um clarified again ideally before uh the subdivisions perfected so we could understand if the address will be web Avenue or six AV which will dictate the building envelope um the applicant I I believe Mr uh Michael did you already apply for a tree removal permit yeah okay and and it's with the shade and tree Curr so it's in review yes okay um with respect to grading again it's all speculation at this point um those are my comments Mr chairman thank you Mr baren are you suggesting that the structure should be uh removed right now I'm not saying right now I'm just saying that ultimately they be removed before the subdivision is perfected so that okay we ensure the existing non-conforming dwell can't be um what's what's the word altered in you know kept essentially that we're expecting two new houses to be built right right okay so with that we could still move forward with with securing the house with the boarding and so forth for now and Mr chairman if I may I just confirm Miss with Miss steinley I I believe that to perfect the minor subdivision we would merely file d s that are signed by the chairman and the secretary of the board and I believe it has to be done within 190 days of the approval yes 190 days but you could always ask for an extension if you needed additional time right but in other words that would be that that would be the hammer that the board would have you simply don't sign off on the Deeds unless the uh structure has been you know removed within that time frame yeah the the Deeds that that are recorded with the county have to be signed by the chairman and the secretary and if the buildings aren't demolished then we can't sign off on it right okay thank you Mr Barett um Miss sttinley uh are we uh ready to move for public comment um yep I think so okay um would you like to um um introduce okay all right that's right we need a motion very good Mr gens do we hear a second second thank you have an all in favor for that than I all right we do have members of the public if you'd like to make a public comment or ask questions you can press raise hand or star nine on your telephone keypad and I do have one here all right please miss sttinley before you um um open it to the public can you explain to them the rules uh that we are going to operate under for the public comment oh yes so everyone who makes a public comment has to state their name and address we um limit we're since there's so many people we want to accommodate it as many people as we can so avoid duplicative comments and try to keep your comments and questions to under two minutes but we'll give you grace period if if you have um concerns okay so our first member of the public you can speak and just state your name and address for the record all uh can you hear me yes yeah my name is Tak I'm owner of 7776 Avenue uh side of the property concern property and uh thank you for the discussion and explanation from uh the s name Mr M uh make sense for the about the drainage uh and in terms of the West Side uh but when it comes to for example the new development happen the north side uh and also s the elevation of the land happen on the North side I have a concern on the new what uh is coming to the north side as well so I also want to make sure uh new water is not coming to the our property so that we can avoid the uh like a drainage situation that's my comment thank you thank you next all right I think that was a question about drainage to the north side of the property and then if anyone if Mr mlen wants to respond yeah so uh I thought he was making a comment I didn't realiz asking a question um North Side Yeah so basically um nothing currently it doesn't look any drainage from our lot now currently goes to his property and it will you know the plan will be to keep it this the same all right any additional members of the public that would like to make a comment or ask questions please raise your hand on Zoom now or on your telephone keypad you can dial Star n all right this we have um so oh this is taku again uh the I based on the sketch elevation of the land happen on the North property so the obviously new water is coming to North Side even though current water is not coming right now to our property that what I'm thinking what's uh your observation why it doesn't come to North Side even though we pop the land uh on the side nor north side that is a question to Mr M thank you I think your question was answered by the [Music] engineer can we have the next person please all right Joseph maneli you can state your name and address for the record Mr maneli I don't think we cannot hear you we'll come back see if you can check on your microphone oh there was a a phone number that had their hand raised but now their hands lowered so if if you would like to speak please and you're on the phone okay there we and then you have to unmute mute yourself by pressing star six on your telephone 0912 yes hello all right so if you could please state your name and address for the record hi my name is Cindy Beque my address is 745 7th Avenue so I am down slope from the property and the reason the uh I am actually sitting in an airport right now I couldn't get onto the call before then um my very grave concern is that what happened across the street at 312 and 312 was built um with no engineering oversight because they just built straight up and the two homes directly below it through across the street from me have had extreme cases of flooding and have spent a lot of money a significant amount of money since that dwelling at 312 web built by this same Builder was was done and there was no recourse for the homeowner on the Downs slope side so that the homeowners that are on the Downs slope side from 312 I'm sorry um the 312 web I'm talking about the home that was across the street web Avenue uh Allan br's old home that's where there was extreme flooding below it when that property was purchased by someone else now talking about 312 and there is a huge slope coming down retaining walls and a lot of land has to be moved in order to build these two homes a lot of soil removal and when you say a permit and I'm we're we're all extremely worried about it there are six homes that will be affected by whatever have one two three four five six homes that'll be affected by what happens at the 312 property the other thing is that um I'm not sure if it was mentioned already as I said I wasn't on the call but all the trees were were taken down at the property on web that this Builder owned and and there was extreme flooding and then on on 312 I happened to be walking past with a neighbor and I stopped and there was no permit and they were taking down trees and grinding down stumps this to me is not a good way to start out this whole Builder uh this whole build of two homes because I don't really have a lot of faith that this Builder will do what is necessary for this place since they've already cut down trees so how are we going to be assured that that anything that happens on that property will not affect the homes on the down slope side Mr Barrett you want to address that uh Mr Michael you've already met with u Jason from the Department of Public Works is that correct that's correct onsite onsite did you remove any trees the trees that were removed were all weeds or bushes small low bushes that is not true that is not true did I'm sorry did Jason have any comments to you that you did something improper no sir sir there are fines that are being rendered onto this property I watched them do this they had no permit and they were taking down large trees and they even cut down branches on Town trees so I don't agree at all ma'am are you are you speaking about 312 web Avenue the subject of I am I am I was the one that called town to have them come stop these guys from cutting the trees down I watched them put trees into the chipper they also cut they also make cuts into burrow trees you have any other do you have any other questions or comments um I guess I'm gonna continue to state that I don't trust that something that's they're saying is since they're already telling me they didn't do it I don't trust that because I was there I I just don't have assurances that whatever is done there will be will be done to help mitigate what will happen on the Downs slope side all right anything anything further all right thank you all right we do I'm going to try Mr Man Z again if you could please unmute yourself and you should be able to state your name and address Joe maneli 789 6th Avenue can you hear me yes looks like it um I guess my question is for the um the engineer is when you if if you're approved and you subdivide this um the the ordinance is 30% of the lot can be covered correct it just seems like there's not going to be enough room and again looking at your plans there it looks like it's more than 30% and I'm all for I'm putting two you know up there I'm just you know hey is it going to be less than 30% on those properties and I can confirm with the other lady no offense Mr Michael those they some of it was Weeds but those other things there were small trees but they were coming down so but I guess if you could answer the question about the 30% % that would be great thank you yeah so um we're limited to 30% for the house front walks driveway and then we're allowed an additional 5% for for the rear yard so we we don't we not plan to exceed any setback we don't we don't plan to exceed the height nor any of the coverages I I I believe the confusion May lie in the fact that you've shown the potential foot print which if filled to its maximum would exceed the 30% I believe that might confusion that that's the the the doubted pink line is the building envelope that's where our building has to be that's not going to be the size of the building okay so anyone else from the public this is your chance to ask questions okay we have another please state your name and address for the record you can unmute yourself to hi I'm Michael Hoffman um I live at 3:30 web Avenue in River Edge so um all our neighbors are concerned about the grade and the water runoff and um to sort of con confirm some things that were were talked about in the public section um I believe the house in reference was 32 was um 327 web that was built by the same builder in which the two ading uh adjacent houses that are down slope was 331 web and around the corner at 744 7th Avenue experien flooding after that house was built so that learning of that and then learning of the plans to subdivide 32 um we we show concerns with adherence to whatever the the town and the uh the board has in terms of ordinance for storm water and drainage um with regard to the trees um I witnessed the trees coming down and I happen to know that that um you know to say that there was nothing done it was only weeds is not an accurate statement thank you thank you all right we have another member all right you can unmute yourself and state your name and address um hi my name is Joselyn Buller and I am at 3:25 web Avenue here in River Edge and I just want to voice my concern about the flooding situation I am right next to the house that was built by the Builder and I know for a fact that our neighbors next door are constantly dealing with a lot of water issues and it's concerning because these are all my neighbors we've been here for over 25 years and across the street is directly behind you know where the properties are going to be built and I just wanted to bring that to the board's attention thank you thank you all right everyone oh there is one other phone that's called in if you are interested in making a comment you can dial star9 on your telephone keypad doesn't look like it so oh there we go all right so you have to dial star six on your telephone to unmute yourself and then you can state your name and address please all um can you hear me yes uh Wayne Murphy 300 web Avenue um I've probably been here the longest since 1951 and I've seen a lot of uh destruction of the forest and that sort of thing so I'm concerned about the trees that are in the yard there um I also saw the tree trimmers had three very big trucks here maybe before um so I saw that work going on but I don't know what they took but you don't bring four trucks to take out some weeds um and uh it's probably a done deal that it's going to be two houses but I would prefer one um and that's pretty much what I have to say okay thank you thank you all right now everyone has had an opportunity to talk but I think Greg that's Greg from Mr Costa's office and Jason from Mr cost's office so that's everyone from the public so we can close okay we need a motion to close uh public comment don't moved okay thank you um all in favor we could take a voice R correct yes okay all in favor I all opposed any extensions all right we're close to the public now um finally I guess we can um well let's let's let's should we should we be having any uh further discussion question by the board members after they heard the public comments um unless somebody has a a question okay Mr Michael raised his hand yeah I just wanted to clarify I didn't build the house that they uh mentioning on web 327 web that was not my company okay thank you you're welcome just um through the chair very quickly because I know there was a comment about the trees it just got off the phone with the uh ppw director so Mr Michael what he told me just now is that you didn't go in for a permit yet is that true I mean that's what he just told me there's a shade and Tree application did you did you go to him for the permit though did you physically go it was submitted in the building department which is what we were instructed to do okay because he just I literally just got off the phone and said you didn't you didn't bring it in but it's in the building department see yeah that's right the building okay thank you you're welcome thank you Mr Casa back to you Miss steinley all right so I just want to summarize what the applicant had agreed to during the course of the hearing um to come back to the board if needed for any variances for any development on the property um if if the variances are needed to obtain all necessary building and Township permits to work with the bur engineer regarding drainage and soil um and to work with the board planner and other burough Professionals for any development of the property to comply with the shade tree management com shade tree committee regarding recommendations for tree removal and tree plantings um agreed to secure the existing dwelling um either boarded up or otherwise secure it until demolition to comply with the board planner recommendations and comments in um his report including comments regarding demolition before before perfecting the subdivision um and all the other comments that were discussed tonight and we were going to Grant waivers should we have to include the waivers that we're uh talking about and the applicant previously and Mr Barrett represented that the applicant would agree to comply with the Subdivision plat requirements in the burough ordinance as part of compliance is that correct Mr Barrett we will will will amend the plans that could be a condition of the approval that those other two items for which we sought wavers will in fact be included okay and Miss styley if I may yeah just one minor well maybe not minor uh clarification in in talking about securing the property you stated um either boarded up or otherwise but I think Mr merman and tell me if I'm wrong but I think Mr merman was very emphatic that he wanted it boarded up be boarded up okay will put that in there just boarded up and also there was a at the start of the public hearing um there was reference to block 302 lot one but the correct lot is Lot 12 just for the record M can we have in there as well that we get those items before this is memorialized and in our hands as we have asked other applicants yep Mr Barrett is that okay yes all right okay those were all my notes I don't know if Mr Barrett has a sum summation no I think that's uh you know the applicant has demonstrated that he willing to comply uh with all the requirements of the ordinances um although we requested a waiver it uh we agree that we'll locate the houses within uh 200 ft of the property to the best that we can again since we can't enter onto their property um and in addition we'll provide I think it's really just maybe two items that we don't have that would be a water course and a culvert and a drain pipe uh and if there's any uh wooded areas now maybe you could help me though with wooded areas do we mean somebody's backyard or you know what what's the wooded are is is IT vanon Park I mean I'm not trying to be a wise guy I'm just I'm really just trying to understand what you'd like to see I guess m Mr C it's gonna be reviewed by Mr Costa so but I mean at this time the board waved waved the requirement but we said we would do it though okay I mean we're trying to we're trying to cooperate and if that's what you want to see we're willing to show it but I don't know what you mean what you know the ordinance is as we've agreed is deficient in many ways tell me what a wooded area is and and is that somebody's backyard and we just show again without entering the property will show that there's trees back I don't know tell me what you want well I think again at this point it's it's for this application it it's un basically you're going to do a d you uh to perfect the subdivision but but at this point there's there's no improvements proposed or contemplated once that once that's done then you would come back in and put your house put your setbacks put your coverages uh put your drainage requirements show whatever walls you're going to build whatever trees you're taking down but I believe you're working with uh with Jason from DPW from what he just told me Michael he just called me back again and he said the application is clear you take it to 500 his office so if you gave it to the building department I don't know why you did that it clearly says it on on the uh on the application but again those requirements are waved so all right so so I guess we don't we you don't need to provide any updated plans not for this application okay that's fine were we all aware that that was what it was being voted on we we were told that we were voting on to allow it through for complete now we're saying that they don't have to supply something that was part of the initial application if if the board grants the waiver from the requirements then then the application proceed forward because it's it's deemed complete and you granted the waiver from that requirement if the board did not Grant the waiver then they could not deem it Complete because they didn't provide the information so now they don't need to require they don't need to provide that because we we got through you're G you're going to approve the basically the line to create the two lots more importantly what what what Tom said earlier once that's perfected that line goes through if those if the house and the garage and the improvements on the property remain that creates a problem with setbacks with coverages because it changes everything but their plan clearly says to be removed Tom asked the board to go one step further and say that stuff has to be removed before you file the deeds and perfect the subdivision and create the two lots they have to Rob yes are there any items that were were waved with respect to completeness that you believe are like critical that weren't on the survey that you know I can't tell from your letter exactly what items we're waving so is one of those items util or storm drainage facilities is that one of the items that's not shown on the survey that's required by the ordinance that there this is where where I think we went back and forth today and again um if I was hired to be in opposition of this application tonight I'm just G to tell you this now just hear me out the ordinance clearly states and I agree with Mr Barrett I think it needs to be uh modified because it doesn't differentiate from from a minor to a major on the requirements of a plat so if Mr Barrett said okay it says it says an interesting thing when you when you apply to the board here's what's required three copies of application three copies of the I'm sorry 12 copies of the sketch plat three copies of the application and then it says at the time of filing the application but no less than 10 days prior to the hearing date the applicant shall also file all plats plans maps and other papers required by the virtue of any provision of the chapter and any rule of the board so this is what I'm saying so technically is it preliminary and final or do they have to come back for final and that's what I said earlier all right but your letter says that the ordinance requires that they show coverts and drain pipes among other things correct is that what we're waving we're waving that requirement okay because they're not proposing any improvements at this point no no no but isn't it existing conditions we're talking about existing conditions right on survey it says existing and proposed right drain pipes natural features that's that's part of of the alerts so if if any of those exist I'm not saying they do or they don't we're waving their the requirement for them to show that in their application correct we that we wave that gone correct thank you but but you what you will approve or disapprove tonight is align to create two lots 7500 Square F feet now if they decide to move forward and build on them or or whatever they're going to do then they're going to have to submit all the all the required information okay and that's through the soil moving perit also and and the existing property is going to be demolished so we once you create that lot have setbacks to that new lot lot we're gonna we're gonna vote on the subdivision tonight and we don't have that information we don't know if there's drainage pipes and we don't know if there's colds that was a decision made by the board when they voted to wave those requirements I think too I think we're getting very BL here wave those requirements for completeness we can still vote this down we haven't agreed to doing anything it's up to us now to decide if we want when you vote you won't have that information Mr Craig we and again collectively or individually you have to make the determination if you're comfortable with that or not right I based you know we heard the testimony we can make a decision if if your decision is I'm not going to vote for the subdivision because I don't know enough about culverts and how it's going to impact this then vote no I I W won't I don't know if there's I don't know if there's coverts or drainage pipes because the board decided to wave submitt of that as part of completeness determination well then councilman vote no if you not comfortable with it and if it fails then the applicant has to come back and rovide the proper things that this I understand what the decision is that has to be made at this point thank you what what's the purpose Mr Mr M what's the purpose of requiring boarding up the structure I mean obviously let me just finish that house hasn't been occupied for over a year and there are no broken windows and no broken doors there's a broken storm door I think in one place all the other um ENT ways of Entry are intact as far as I know I'm just I'm just worried about what that looks like in our neighborhood having a boarded up house well is that necessary and I I didn't hear anyone else on the board weigh in on that I just want to make sure that's that's necessary I want to eliminate okay I wanted to eliminate what I call an attractive nuisance an attractive nuisance means that anybody can enter that dwelling have any kind of activities uh whatever whatever they do today um and so forth and it's basically for uh Community safety okay I just want you to understand they'd have to break a window or knock down a door to do that well ye yes right now um somebody could sneak in there and have a party or whatever um it's more for Community safety yeah I mean the house has been standing there empty for over a year and I'm just I'm just concerned about the Aesthetics of having a boarded up house in our neighborhood wow there's no reason there's no reason why the boarding can't be painted green or whatever so it's not so intrusive visually um but the the purpose was one of community safety so that was that um okay let me will I have the floor here my interpretation uh of the wood the trees uh the tree com at within 200 feet was natural wooded uh trees if there was a natural W would uh lot or what have you nearby that that be indicated that that's the way I look at it Mr Barrett I would I would agree with you but I just wanted to make sure no okay U and I think that's what that was Mr bar we're gonna be hanging curtains in a window before we get done tonight uh is there some way that you can make that closure of of the building look um presentable to the uh to the neighbors in the community um whe whether you're paintting green or whatever all right could you do that please that's on you David what do you think can you do something there to I I agree that that it's really not um Mr councilman glass that it's not really a look for River Edge as a former resident of Riveredge it just it's not a really good look if perhaps perhaps Mr merman there is an orange fence that's around 4 feet high that we can secure the property with the S uh fence that we usually use in construction um in terms of becoming a public nuisance with all due respect I do pass by the house several times a day since I do live around 10 minutes away from the property um and if there is some kind of nuisance I'm sure our our neighbors that are there that have paid attention to the trees and the activity around the property would definitely call the cops if there is something my opinion is I I I will do whatever the board requests of me I just think for the town it doesn't look good I did live in the town at 241 Beach Court for a long time so I am a resident of Riveredge having been a teenager and a similar I I understand yeah of course especially with what's allowed of course of course teenager another eror okay um I I really feel that that we need something solid and secure and and I appreciate your self um security system of passing by but I I feel rather strong about the safety of the community Mr merman would it be satisfactory to state that if a problem developed now councilman glass points out that it's been a year and there have been no incidents if there's an incident that Mr Michael will go and it up in an aesthetic manner I kind of I kind of stand on what I said it's I just think that you know if if nothing has happened for a year probably gonna probably another six months but again if that's if that's the will of the board so be it I'm just saying that it's not it's not a done deal if he doesn't do it tomorrow if you want it done a month from now because a bunch of kids had a party after a football game that's all um well right now I'm going to leave it in the motion and uh course like I said having been uh a youth many years ago um I remember your football party type of Adventures and and I'd rather leave it this way so they said that did they notice multiple forces back in your day as a youth um I'm notet read my book when it comes out Mr Barett a poor attempt of a joke I know and so was the book okay all right so um are there any last comments by any of the board members before we uh um pick a motion on this okay um we need a motion uh on uh equality let me get this quality home developers LLC 312 web Avenue block 302 Lot 12 um for the subdivision as discussed and enumerated does somebody care to make that uh motion to accept what M Miss steinley just uh um set forth and what we discussed so I'm ready for a motion and then we'll have a second and vote on it I'll make the motion that we approve the subdivision uh with subject to all the conditions that were recited by Miss steinley thank you we need a second no second all right to move it along I'll make the second no I seconded it should I could hear oh sorry so a motion to approve the subdivision with the conditions that were previously described um Mr merman yes Mr feffer yes Mr Craig yes Mr kigo no councilman glass M I'm sorry you're on mute I just want to say real quick I've seen Mr Michaels work and he's a top-notch builder we couldn't be more fortunate thank you Mr G thank you you're welcome I appreciate the the truth thank but I'm concerned as you all know that we don't have all the information that we should have potentially about this property so I'm gonna vote no all right and Mr Gibbons no all right the motion fails all right so then may I propose that the two items and I believe that's all that are required under the ordinance correct me if I'm wrong uh Mr Barons or Mr Costa will be placed onto the plans is there anything else just so that I mean you know the councilman just voted no based on the fact that that information isn't there so we'll put the information there U I don't think it affects my opinion it doesn't affect the application what one bit because it's not on site but you know we'll we'll comply is there anything else though Mr St he'll have to Ren notice correct yep I think so all right fine so then you'll have to schedule um a u hear could we hear Mr chairman is there anything else that is going to be required you I'd like to get this done once and for all I I wish I could answer that but you heard you heard you heard all the testimony I heard well I know but but again if we comply with the ordinance now you know Mr Costa spoke about drainage and things of that nature I don't believe that's in the ordinance correct me again correct me if I'm wrong I don't know each I guess Mr Barrett will just have we'll have to take it offline and talk about what you need to do to submit it we can have a meeting with Mr Costa Mr Baron just to make sure that everything and Mr mlen and we can just have a call or a zoom or something okay fair enough we'll schedule something and you'll have to work you'll have to work with Mr althor regarding a calendar yep thank you okay all right thank you thank you everybody thank you anything further to come before the board tonight okay all right let's can we can we close the meeting yep if there's nothing else move to adjourn second all right can we take a Voice vote Miss St yes okay all all in favor I all oppose any extensions all right meeting's closed