##VIDEO ID:g-X_cG_QVes## today is um October 9th 2024 it's 7:30 p.m. and this is the U Municipal land use Board of the borrow of Riveredge U meeting um Mar Marina can you read the zoom statement please yes no problem this meeting of the municipal land use Board of the burough River Edge is being held remotely and recorded via Zoom due to burough council chambers unavailability and is in compliance with the provisions of the open public meetings act and Associated regulations notice of this remote meeting was published in the Bergen Record posted on the front doors of burrow Hall and posted on the Burrow's website the notice included dial and login information necessary for public participation and access to this meeting remotely a copy of the agenda for this meeting was made available on the Bros website near the posting of the meeting notice and included a dial in login information during the public comment period of this meeting if you would like to make a public comment please raise your hand on Zoom or dial star9 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand the board will address your You by name or by the last four digits of your telephone number you may mute and unmute Yourself by pressing the microphone icon on Zoom or dialing star 6 on your telephone keypad you must state your name and address prior to making a public comment thank you okay thank you can we have roll call please yes the mayor is excused tonight and the chairman is excused tonight miss Boland here Mr merman here Mr feffer here Mr cray here Mr kigo don't see him absent at the moment um councilman glass is excused tonight Mr Gibbons here and Mr bid is absent also present uh Mr Barons our board planner okay um approval of minutes there's no minutes available for approval um and we have a memorialization and that is the memorialization for sweet sweet sweet spot rivered LLC 75 Route 4 East block 1415 lot 1.01 and um are there any uh comments Corrections or deletions or what have you by any of the board members regarding the memorialization I did have one edit I realized um on page 15 um paragraph or sub paragraph e um I had included an old language about the opaque window coverings um right now it says opaque frosted are patterned but we decided not patterned so I'm going to delete that um okay the resolution all right um other than that do any other board members have comments no not hearing any I'll entertain a motion accept them so moved second okay um oh well we got to take a um we got to take a um roll call vote oh all right so um all all in favor uh we you'll or or oppose you'll indicate it to Marina as you records the vote I I'll go through um with the roll call vote Miss Bolan yes Mr merman yes Mr pepper yes Mr cray yes uh Mr Gibbons yes okay the motion passes very good um we'll move to the regular agenda for tonight um I'm going to move um I'm going to move Quality Homes developers to later in the even evening and um what we'll do is we'll um have a 9:30 perfu for the Happy Dog LLC and we'll have a 10 pm curfew for the quality homes so um with that we'll move on to the U completeness review for happy doog LLC um which which is at 47 River Edge Road um block 409 L three on the proposed addition of overnight boarding and training maintenance outdoor operation of retail business is not permitted use and the proposed hours of operation are not permitted in the se1 zone um so Mr Barons can you you um give us your review of the of of the application for complet his purpose items yeah sure sure Ken uh good evening everyone Tom baren board planner um so just to be clear the the tenant has actually occupied the space in question for I believe at least six months having received a CO from the building department and there are just certain aspects of the business that the applicant would like to pursue that technically uh it's been determined required D1 use variance relief and in addition to that the applicant who's not the owner of the property um it was at my recommendation that the apartment also be referenced as part of this application because we're you know we're looking at the whole property um and the apartment in question has been um been there for at least 40 years based on records that I've seen so again because we're reviewing this it was my suggestion that the property be reviewed holistically so I think you know on the one hand we should consider everything but really focus on what the applicant's proposing that being said from a completeness perspective uh we do now have a formal site plan which addresses the site plan conditions as well as a proper property survey as well as some we'll call them architectural renderings for the interior of the space which again are currently occupied and and have received whatever permits were necessary to do whatever work was done so from that perspective I do believe we have we have enough information to proceed uh this evening okay um so that's your recommendation that is my recommendation yes okay um without going down individually do any of the board members uh have any comments regarding the completeness all right not hearing any I'll entertain a motion um to U deem this application complete so move second thank you all right um I guess we can vote on this Marina you've got to take a um a headcount uh of individuals for the motion um we can just do a Voice vote so okay all in fav fine okay um all in favor say I I I I uh approved disapproved not hearing any any abstentions fine okay so it's approved we can move on okay um and just to add Mr merman for the record um I did review the proofs submitted by the applicant's attorney um and found them to be sufficient for the board to hear the application tonight so they are good to proceed great great so now we can move to the regular um um presentation um Mr Atkins are you still um representing this applicant I am otherwise I wouldn't be here well yeah for the record yeah I would be watching the Mets game by the way for any of you who don't know uh Francisco Lindor hit a grand slam home run in the sixth inning and the Mets are now winning 4-1 4-1 y I could see I could see Lisa freaking out a couple minutes ago I figured something I just looked at my phone while you were um so now you put the pressure on me to approve this before the end of the game is that no question no question no question all right would you like to U yeah if I could be give a brief little opening and then I will have my client testify uh the town granted uh Miss Gil ronin's happy dog business permits a little over 6 months ago and she's been operating her business which when she applied for her permit she said and the use that was approved was Dog store package Goods gear grooming training ongoing training walks care hikes on and off the property uh and an office daytime and with an aster if allowed overnight board and train if not I'll apply for variance so that was the co that she was given she's here applying now to allow her to use the premises for overnight boarding but I want to make sure the board understands what she's asking she is not looking to board strange dogs overnight she is looking she does dog training she only wants to board overnight dogs that she's either training or has trained if the owners are going away and they don't want to lose the training this will not be a dog kennel so to speak open to the general public the hook to put a dog in her facility in her business would be it's a dog either Miss gonin is trained or is in fact in the process of training and concom with that would be if you and you can see in the site plan that was submitted and by the way she she's a tenant there she doesn't own it she's done nothing to the property other than install a fence which is shown for which I might add she got a permit uh there's a little grass area in the back if she walked the dog at night when it was boarded with her that's where they would go unless she felt safe walking in the street but that's all she's really seeking permission for it's a business uh that I think has a merit obviously to have dogs trained is better than have dogs not trained and uh with that if anybody has any questions for me I would like to have my client testify fine you can proceed okay should I swear or is somebody from the board if you please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes and please state your name spell your last name and provide your address for the record my name is Stephanie gonin and my middle name is Marie and my address address uh my spelling of my name is s p h a n i e Marie is m a r i e gonin is g i l r o n a n and I live at 47 River Edge Road Apartment A is that the upstairs of the premises that is the subject of this application yes and where is the business uh at 47 rge Road downstairs downstairs okay same building though same building okay that's what I want to establish now and the property is as set forth on the site plan that's been submitted correct and you've made no changes to it other than the fence correct is that correct correct uh should I be marking the site plan as applicants exhibit one Mr chairman um that's up to Marina do you you want that marked it's the same as what was PR provided to the board previously with the application yes okay that's fine we don't need it to okay no problem all right M before I ask any questions you had prepared you felt more comfortable by reading a statement to the board yeah I I would like to for you guys to get to know me and who I am uh coming into your town uh so just a little bit about me and my company my name is Stephanie gonin I I have been a resident of Bergen County for the last 33 years I entered a dog world 12 years ago walking dogs and seven and a half years ago I started happy doggy training dogs uh today fast forward to today I'm a certified professional dog trainer I'm a certified Integrative Health um health counselor I'm in the middle of studying K9 nutrition and I continue to take ceu classes every year to maintain my certification as a trainer as well as to be able to help our community Deeper by furthering my credentials to become a dog behavior consultant the way I train I blend together my backgrounds to provide a full training experience to help harmonized relationships between families and their dogs through safe and gentle ways of changing Behavior through an integrative whole life approach which addresses an array of areas in human and dogs life the last seven years we have run our company Mobile providing uh training and ongoing care and maintenance support once dogs have completed their initial training before finding our space here in River Edge we've offered training an Adventure Care Program solo walks and Hikes Solo in home stays and occasionally wedding handling Services uh and now with adding our stationary home base here in River Edge we finally get to offer services that we've been asked to offer for years from the community that have also been deeply on my heart for years as it's the complete full picture of training and supporting clients in the community long term with our space here now we get to offer the community a holistic food store a Grooming Spa we have a hybrid space to use for training and our adventure Care Program happening off and on property we have an office and hopefully now as the purpose of this meeting adding overnight care to offer only to our training clients to have a safe space for their dogs to stay and maintain their training with us as needed whether that's a single night or when their dogs uh when they're they go on vacation for a few times a year when so much when you say maintain training what does that mean uh keep their training going not going to somebody that isn't GNA keep up with their training so you would never be advertising come board your dog with us no and uh Miss gonin if the board were to approve you having the dogs overnight in what part of your premises would they be uh in the downstairs the first floor and uh you're surrounded there are you not in at least in the backyard there are residential neighbors yes and on the side is a commercial property with some residents above it yes has anybody ever complained about your operation in the six or so months that you've been there no no complaint and they all got notices did they not y I'm not aware that anyone has shown up to object to this are you no did any ever call you and say don't you dare do this no and uh what would be in your opinion the maximum number of dogs if the board was to approve this that you would had any given time in your premises for boarding uh it's hard to say but maybe between five and 10 would you be willing to be restricted to those numbers that no more than 10 I mean it depends it all it really depends but that's where I'm thinking uh is just my values of keeping it small um and not you know I don't want to be like this 200 dog place to have a maximum at any one night of 10 dogs would you accept that as a condition yeah if that was appropriate totally and when you if you had the dogs boarded there overnight what would you be the purposes you're not giving any kind of retail use outside you're not selling products after hours or people coming to your premises no what would be the purpose of going outside with a dog what would be the only purpose just to relieve themselves and how about or a walk yeah to take them for a walk before bed and if there's inclement weather to just use the yard to go to the bathroom so you wouldn't be engaging in any kind of retail activity so to speak you wouldn't be selling anything or having people come to the site after uh hours no so in essence you'd be obeying all the the hour regulations of River Edge other than coming out once or twice to walk a dog right and reasonable hours that that's it yes M and that's all you're seeking is that not so yes now even during your daytime hours do you use the outside of the premises much no most of our uh activity is happening off property and we have a very small portion happening on property like a hybrid and when customers come to bring their dogs or to pick up dog food do they spend any time at your place like two or five minutes that's it maybe six okay so they come drop the dog off and leave yes or they come buy dog food and leave yes there's no reason when they drop the doger for training they don't stay and watch you train well I train with them mostly off off property when you say to me off property you train with them in their homes yeah their homes and Parks things like that but if they drop a dog off for training for for maintenance training only that's where it's done with me and the the customer doesn't participate in that correct they just drop and leave right so there's no for lack of a better word number of cars parking at any time at your facility no ever um I mean I no I'm no I they come and they go yeah and you have you live there so you parked something there do you not yes in the back and does anybody else live with you uh my partner yes and does he or she also have a vehicle he also has a vehicle and what kind of vehicles do you have uh we we both have uh Vans and Sprinter vans and they're not marked or written up or commercial no they're personal vehicles personal and that's that's the only cars that are parked there at all yep on the site and I think the plan shows you have approximately 10 parking spaces uh I they may not all conform so yeah I know to what the town now requires but that's what's been there for many many years right and do you ever Envision eating all those spaces anyway probably not I mean I hope but probably not I hope for business sake do you think you're serving a good purpose for the community if they Grant this absolutely and what's the good purpose you think you're serving uh so it's really a multi there's a lot of layers to this but you know if you have your dog trained and uh you can have them be watched by your trainer that's a wonderful thing um they don't lose the training it's a lot better for the community it keeps the community safer to be able to have dogs in the you know the hands of professionals versus uh hands of nonprofessional where they you know dogs can get loose from people that are not professionals be running in in the streets dogs can be left unattended in yards if they're not under Professional Care and become a nuisance to the the neighborhood um there's a lot of reasons why it's better to have them stay with the trainer um as needed versus just somebody that's not a professional and do you think that's a good thing for a community to have oh yeah definitely and talk to me about is part of your training have anything to do possibly with dogs barking what do you mean by that can you train a dog not to bark and oh yes of course yes and is that part of what you do yes and you haven't in the six and a half months or so that you've been you haven't had any complaints from any of the residents no and if they if there is a bark it's so easy to I don't want to say you know it's simple for me um but it's super simple to interrupt them redirect them and for some reason if those two things don't work which they usually do wish you would have known you you you we would just you know uh abandon you just start moving and they stop barking and also dogs can't smell and bark at the same time for anybody that has a dog correct yes so you need an emergency treat in your pocket so really what you're asking the board you wouldn't be doing anything different than you're doing now no it would be everything that we do during the daytime um like the way that we operate off and on property now um just if you needed care for your dog overnight because you're going away on vacation and you are only a training client I want to really emphasize that um then you would just stay overnight and you know that's it just go to bed yeah you don't own the property do you no you just lease it yes we just rent it I don't really have any other questions from Miss Kil Ronin if any of the board has any questions okay I'll I'll ask the board if they have any comments of this Witness Miss Bolan I have no comment okay Mr fer yes thank you I just have a few questions um first of all you do have a lease for the premises yes and is is the lease uh does the lease address the nature of your business in other words the mentions what kind of business you have there yes I could add that the lease was contingent on her getting the certificate of occupancy from the town to have the business there otherwise she would not have entered the premises yes okay and and what is the remaining term on the lease uh we signed it for two years with we wanted to make sure that we would get this uh variance before committing to something longer but I would like to be in that same spot for decades so when when does this this lease when does it end so that it will expire um well six months old yeah so in March of 2026 okay and I guess one one concern or curiosity I have is how um well first of all what would you say the different requirements between being a border as opposed to just being a trainer that has dogs sleeping over that's a great question so will never be a place that just uh you know you called today and said can I drop my dog off tomorrow uh for boarding a boarding place would say yes there's no requirements they just if your dog's friendly that's really the one requirement that they have they can have behavior issues and a border would just say yes tomorrow um the way I've always operated our company um because we have our daytime Services now we have a very extensive training uh onboarding process interview process training process if you guys have looked into our company at all um you could see that we have uh I have people fill out a form a questionnaire form I do a 30 minute Discovery call with them then I get together with them one-on-one in person then I do a social assessment with them I have them have a a clear stool sample to make sure before they even Mingle for that other interview all that's free by the way this is just to explore and make sure this is going to be a good fit and I don't charge for that because I want to also be able to say no to somebody um not have it just be a oneway street it's a two-way street and then from there then I can assess with a family like okay your dog needs um you know a basic obedience training uh package or your dog needs a some dogs I work with for six months and another thing I want to say too is some dogs might never be fit to be in our like there's some dogs that for the daytime stuff like they don't come over right now they do solo stuff and they might always do solo stuff so my screening process is very very extensive uh some families even joke that it's harder to get into uh our training programs than it is to Harvard um verbatim but yeah so we have a very extensive training training proc onboarding process training process and I really just at the root of it all I want the dogs to be uh happy and comfortable and the other dogs to be happy and comfortable the community to be happy and comfortable and safe so it's a very extensive process to getting to even um the ongoing care services during the daytime it would be even stricter for the nighttime okay and one more comment I want to make oh I'm sorry go ahead no finish okay one more one more thing I was just thinking of too is that um if a dog does come over for a daytime service or a nighttime service and it's they have more work to do I have I've already had this conversation for their daytime services that hey your dog's not uh fit for this we have to switch to a uh solo in home and I will continue those same principles um for the goodness of the the dog itself the other dogs the community if they were going to be you know a nuisance to others I have one question how many hours a day does the average dog sleep a lot what's a lot between 16 and 20 hours make sure they get that rest it's important yeah so you mentioned that you uh you're comfortable with a maximum of 10 dogs staying overnight um how many days or how many nights would you anticipate would be a maximum that a particular dog who's in in your training program uh would stay like uh so so we don't offer boarding trains where no I mean where dogs are staying overnight because the owners have gone away on vacation a lot of people go away for two weeks would you have a dog stay at your business establishment for two weeks so you know for for the health of our business I would hope that the answer is frequently you know that we can have it be a consistent uh thing you know I have my own dog right um M I think he's asking you would a dog be there for like two weeks if somebody was on vacation possibly you know possibly it's hard to say and forecast those numbers because it's not something that we offer but just B I guess my I guess my real question is because I don't how long the training lasts so is there a maximum period where you know someone says to you I need to be out of the country for 30 days because of my job will you hold and my dog is in training with you will you hold my dog for 30 days and will would you say yes to that or would you say no that's that's over our maximum do you have a Max so if a dog was still that's a great question if a dog was still like in the heart of training I would consider that I'm not sure right it just is a case by case basis if it's a great dog and they have they have no behavior issues yeah they could say for really as long as they need to um so it depends on the dog it dep it all depends on it all depends on the dog it all it also depends on the owner yeah yes it all really it's really heavily um based off of the dog and it's so important to me and I also want to mention Jay I just want to make a correction Jay said before dogs that are in training yes but if a dog is still still in training we they're not ready to come over for that service in my opinion you know I think that they would still need to be doing the at their home stuff until they were more suited to be able to be away from their home and that's a case- by case basis right so that's going to be something if they did stay over are you talking about maintaining their training maintaining their training yes so that's that's the primary reason of wanting to offer this additional service is just say I trained your dog Bruce and uh you know we had spent months together your dog is a great dog and um you're going on vacation like you said for two weeks yeah I would take your dog now if I just started training with you last week and your dog is at the beginning of their training I would not be comfortable to take a dog that is that new into training because we're not it takes months for a dog to really be fully trained depending on the dog's circumstances and what what about a situ I mean I assume there would be situations where a dog completes its training but then but maybe a year later uh the the owner comes back and says I'm going on vacation for two weeks and I want to leave my dog with you for for a couple of weeks how do you handle that so that's exactly why I want to add the service because we've been asked this question so many times and I only can do one-on ones right now in other people's homes so having this space now to be able to offer the overnight I would say yes to you as somebody that I've known for that long I have a great relationship with the dog I would say yes that so then M what I'm really getting at is is there a line between being a border and a trainer in the sense that if somebody has completed their training they can still board their dog with you after the training is over right oh yeah well that's where maintenance training comes in because if you go send your dog if you go bring your trained dog to somebody that's not a trainer it's very very easy for them to pick up other bad habits and now they're undoing all the training that you worked very hard to do and I've seen it happen before with you know families uh you know I was in available because again the in homes I can only do one and they had to use somebody else and a greatly trained dog is no longer a greatly trained dog after spending just even a couple weeks with somebody else that's not a trainer okay got it I just have a couple quick questions um remaining I don't want to take up all the time um the conditions that dogs will be in when they stay over overnight are they in crates are they grouped together in a room how how is that set up so that's going to our our whole thing is that I want to keep it a natural home environment because that's how dogs are really the most comfortable um if by request you asked you said you hey at home my dog is in a crate you know that person can bring their crate I would use that but our our real main thing is to make the dog comfortable to what's natural to them so if they sleep with a bed on the floor that's how they'll sleep if they have couches we already have couches set up for them for daytime that would just be for nighttime also uh we have like movable gates to be able to separate the room um but really you know I have this daytime service going on and these dogs are trained they're best friends some of them do better together and some might do better separate so it's all going to depend on well you have you have room for 10 dogs uh to live outside of a crate overnight together is that oh yeah we probably have room for more for a lot more and I would defer to the Fire Marshall to give us you know like other business and maximum capacity but the was what I want to be able to handle would be about 10 okay to keep our values and our principles okay and you mentioned the Fire Marshall that leads to my last question tell tell us about the security um uh devices or systems that you have in place in terms of you know let's say you and your partner leave the house nobody's home the dogs are there overnight you're out late um do you have cameras do you have sprinklers do you have fire alarms what kind of systems do you have in place great question so we're still installing things because this is not a service I wanted to make sure before spending a whole bunch of money that you know we would be able to have this permission for overnight as I'm sure you could understand uh but yes right now we have uh security alarms on every single door um we have cameras we can talk to the dogs we play music zen music for them so they're nice and relax and don't get disturbed by you know noises of the train and whatnot um in addition to that also I'm going to be putting um things over the windows because it really freaks me out to to not have things over the windows so we're going to have either some type of shutter system or cages or something that would not allow somebody to be able to get in so easily okay so you wouldn't you wouldn't have a problem if we made that a condition of approval not at all security gates windows and and all the other systems that you've just mentioned that you would maintain those in place not at all yeah not at all because I really want that myself so thank you for bringing that up okay I have nothing further thank you okay very good thank you uh Mr Craig any questions of this applicant yeah um I I just I'm trying to I just want to get a feel for uh again quantity maybe so typically during the day you're going to be out training dogs off site somewhere is that correct it's a hybrid model yeah so it's off off property on property it depends on the day your business is going to the growth of your business is going to depend on you taking on more dogs to train right so and when you first start training them you do it off site you don't bring them there is that for that segment in the business yes okay so as you're growing your business and you're getting new dogs to train kind of by definition you're gonna not be here well she's not the only one that trains yeah I'm not yes we have I have a small staff okay so well I guess the question is you know I'm I'm thinking about you know 10 dogs in a rather small environment um how often and I know maybe hard to to to to estimate this but how often are they there without anybody else in the house oh right now never so you're always there somebody somebody is so right now we only have you know our for the training operation side um we have somebody that's all our manager who who hosts the Adventure Care which is the ongoing training program right and the dogs are still continuing their training um out in the real world he is always with them and if he has to go you know he's taking lunch he's got to go to the doctor I'm we always schedule it where somebody is always on the premises with them and also you know my I I'll schedule my training at nighttime uh after I'm done with the work at the store so I'm always there or he's always there and then we also have part-timers that we'll fill in on the weekend if I have to go out somewhere uh you know we have a bunch of part-time uh employees that been been with us for years actually uh they're full-time teachers they're with us in the weekends after school Summers um so super reliable help um we have a really solid team if I'm not there or he's not there somebody else is there okay so and that then that's the way you anticipate or or expect to run things going forward that you're never going to have the the facility with nobody there overseeing it I do not intend to have that okay um the the space outside I mean again same kind of thing is is there ever going to be a time where you say hey we're going to take the T dogs and throw them out into the Gated area the fenced in area to just let them run outside kind of thing or is that going to be metered with again somebody being with them how's that going to be used I guess that's a great question uh so we do all of our I don't really believe in that you know it's not really fulfillment it's a parking lot back there really the way we use that backyard space is again for using the bathroom um but we fulfill the dog's needs out in the real world off property and we pull into that back gate the the real reason why we got the gate was to be able to pull in off of the busy road uh shut the gate behind us and now we're unloading for lunchtime rest time training IND door uh we're getting washed up because they're filthy and we're grooming them uh we're behind a fence and they're they're fully safe from from the uh the street but I think his question was are you going to be using the outdoor part to have all the dogs running around backyard I think that was your question correct yes and is is that gonna happen no and why not because we're we're a training service that you know really believes more in the dogs being naturally fulfilled in like the real world not in a backyard we've taught we've actually taught all the dogs that inside time is to rest when you go to the bathroom you're calm it's you know it's more about having a calm dog uh at the end of the day at the core for how I I train the dogs I don't really like to use the word train it's really teaching them and raising them okay um eventually again if you're if you're growing your business you're training new dogs you know I I know personally myself you know finding a good place to take my dog is is incredibly valuable right um because you don't want to drop them off somewhere where you're not happy with the environment assuming you're successful and it sounds like you have been today that's going to grow I mean you know if you're limited to 10 dogs there I'm assuming then that just means you're GNA have to find additional facilities for growth because if if you've got 10 people who want to board their dogs there now on a kind of continuing basis um in that you know you maybe that's 75 customers but you always have eight or 10 dogs um when that grows you know if you're you're you're going to be restricted here right I me you'll have to so that's a great question so I actually don't want to have more than that because so you know we're in New Jersey people I have dogs that pass away they move we're in an exit seate I have people that move all time so somebody I've known for seven years moves and I no longer see them anymore right so that's one big thing but uh really the reason we' actually found I look so hard to find this ideal size mix you space You know it's it's got some some space in there inside that that house um but I wanted to go wide on our services so that's why we offer Now The Grooming and the The Source uh keeping going with everything we have during the daytime and then the addition of overnight so this is like how I wanted to serve the community more in a wide way versus like only offer one service where we're so reliant on only exping I don't want to manage that many people I want to have just a a good amount small amount of dogs um and also my office you know I started to train online now too so we're we're not just in person only it's it's also online so having my office has been really good um so that's a way really more we're expanding it's not just about adding more dogs to that one service of training and then the um you know the ongoing maintenance training okay uh I'm good thank you thank you um Mr gibons uh no I don't have any questions thank you no questions okay thank you um I guess I'm up next uh for the board's information I have visited the site at least twice and had conversations with the applicant and all um during uh during one of the U site visits um the applicant um um referenced uh to me her staff um uh her her staff uh number of staff and I think just now you've mentioned you have some various uh um staff people um can you just give the board a quick uh and likewise you had said I believe it was seasonal to some extent could you just give the board a quick overview of what your staff might be in vary you mean on a daily basis um um well I think our conversation sounded like it might be a little more seasonal in the summer time with with um um help and so forth well that's so I can go on vacation you know somebody could just fill in for me when I'm not there uh but yeah so on a daily basis just with the store now so uh you know I'm I'm in the store now during the daytime my partner is handling the ongoing Services of the Adventure Care Program um once he's back because that's not a very long you know everybody goes home pretty early um once he's back from there I'll go out and train and he now is on premises and we actually just lost a full-timer by the way so there was three of us uh and there will be three full-timers again um so we have a little more flexibility you know between us all but uh we're we have a groomer that's starting on Friday so that'll be somebody else on on premises and then you know being open seven days a week is a lot so we do have help also on the weekends um from part- timers and then like I said the seasonal reason for that is so I could take a vacation oh you don't want to do that okay that that that pretty much um answers my question um Mr barens do you have any questions to this applicant on on the areas that we're exploring at the moment um yes I guess uh since we're having the conversation uh I don't really have any more questions about the use but just relying on my memo just some general questions about the application in general so um there's already a sign which was approved by permit the happy doggy sign it looks like you've spruced up the front of the building quite a bit with plantings and and so forth so appreciate the effort there um as far as lighting goes um I I guess more of a a statement than a question um you know for as it pertains to the rear of the site where you let the dogs out to to not have any let's say spotlights that would impact the Residential Properties outside you know of course you need some type of safety lighting probably for the back door whatever the case may be but you know sometimes you you know for residential and non-residential uses people will have these bright white spotlights that light up the whole neighborhood and I would just say you know treat your neighbors the way you'd want to be treated Mr baren couldn't we agree that if she didn't install any lights in the back other than on the building itself like for you know a normal light she could have it aimed into the property is opposed to out I would agree with that yes so uh shielded lighting fixtures correct we would refer them we would accept that as a condition if that's installed yeah and one thing I want to say about that too Tom is I like what you just said uh you know I'm like more than anything um I really value being a considerate neighbor and you know if we do install any lighting I would turn it off in a reasonable hour um I'd make sure that we were inside sleeping in a reasonable hour you know keeping schedules just just just being a respectful person in terms of light lighting and but what what you're saying is that if you do light back towards the neighbor side you aimed it into your property yes yeah it would not be a nuisance to our neighbors I would never do that Mr bar anything else I I appreciate that I just lost connection so I i' no reason to suspect otherwise but just you know again giving you the uh questions that I had in my memo how do you handle waste um garbage and recycling do you have a location so because we have our apartment upstairs we just are on the regular cycle of uh with the town every Sunday and Monday is it Sunday and Monday and uh a lot of our waste actually we end up throwing out when we're out and about with the dogs just in public trash cans but anything that's on property we're just on the regular schedule with the town and they come because of the apartment upstairs okay and the the Sprinter Vehicles they're they're not commercially registered their personal vehicles correct correct okay all right um just as a technicality I mean the burrow on the one hand prohibits the parking of commercial vehicles overnight which you're saying they're not but we also typically don't allow recreational vehicles or RV I know this is kind of a gray area hybrid so I I think we could deal with it I'm just pointing it out as a a formality here um then I guess my final question because we are dealing with some level of of variance relief can you help us to understand um and this is not a gotcha question but why this site Mak sense for your use not not the apartment per se but for your dog training use I love this question um so I was actually seeking out a mixu space intentionally and I looked for years because in my mind uh having dogs be overnight somewhere where they're unattended is not acceptable I would never want to bring my dog to a place like that that just left the dogs unattended and came back in the morning so I was looking for ideal again ideal size because I don't want something so big I want something where I could serve the clients wide and different services and with the hopes and I took the risk and I said you know what let's take the risk in this place and pray to God that um makes sense for Town also to have uh us add the overnight service and then it makes sense to have the town you know I'm on the property overviewing the property to protect the dogs underneath us um and that's really it it's really for safety okay thank you and um then the final question um the apartment upstairs is it a one-bedroom a studio just for the record so it's a studio it's a studio apartment okay yes very good uh no further questions thank you thank you Mr baren um Mr Atkins you wanna is that your next witness there is no other witness uh I don't think I need the engineer that did the site plan it it speaks for itself and um um you have our whole application you have a g variance you gonna have any testimony on by a planet well I'm not I had some discussion with Mr Barons about that um this use has been granted the only Quest we're asking is to extend it to allow it to have the dogs inside overnight basically I don't see it as a classic D variant I see it more like a kind of a allowing an accessory use that makes sense for the town that makes sense for the applicant and that creates no negative impact on the community whatsoever and I'm willing to go with that on this application I don't think this application merited uh extensive and expensive planning testimony I don't know about that Mr bar you want to comment on that and then I'll ask Miss steinley the comment on that well I I'll add I will add some commentary on that so so the test for a D1 use variants um is is determining whether or not the site is particularly suited for the use both um you know whether or not the site makes sense but also within the context of the community hence the question that I asked earlier um and the the two other aspects of the relief that are being requested are one for the boarding use which we we've heard testimony that it's really ancillary or accessory to the training use so the training use is the primary component of this and the boarding is you know secondary sort of as needed and the outdoor operations are really limited to bathroom breaks and not you know dog runs and training I maybe limited training but not not a free-for-all outside like you might Bo so I think that's that's an important distinction then the second part of that test is What's called the negative criteria and there's two aspects to that one is ensuring that there'll be no substantial impact to the uh public good um I mean we we've heard testimony that the applicant's been there for six months haven't had any issues and and she's been thoughtful about trying to not impact neighbors and then finally that there's the proposal is not inconsistent with the intent and purpose of the Burrow's master plan and zoning ordinance so I mean the use was granted a CEO the the primary training and grooming use was granted a so we're you know again we're the relief's being requested for some ancillary components to this as well as the existing residential use which I'll get to in a second um the apartment's been there there is mentioned in the the most uh recent reexamination report that um areas near the train station that are in commercial zones not single family zones may make sense for mixed use development such as this and again the the apartment I've seen documents that indicate the apartment's been there since at least 1984 so the issue that I brought up is that there's the municipal land use law dictates how a town can approve such a non-conforming use you either determine that it's existed before the zoning ordinance uh was ever adopted which we don't have that information you can grant a variance relief such as as being requested tonight or zoning officer can issue a certification for non-conforming use only up to one year after zoning change um so again hence the my suggestion to to formalize the residential aspect of this uh which I think is a benefit to the burrow as well as the the landlord in this case um so I mean that's that in essence is the planning thought behind all of this uh you know it's whether it's up to the board whether or not to accept that or ask additional questions well that's all true we understand that but my understand is the D variance really applies to the extended 24-hour operation which is beyond the uh borrow ordinance that that is also the real that's the real that's the real question of the variance Mr mer I I wouldn't call this 24hour right dog sleeping there in a dog training and grooming facility not open to the public that's a big distinction it's not open to the public after they close so if if if an owner had five dogs and they slept in his house be the almost the same thing here but she's not doesn't have open hours to the public after closing and her her operation will meet all of the B standards in terms of when she has to close the doors and be not in business so I think it's very different issue yeah I think that's a little bit of a specious argument though because I can have five people over for dinner from my family that's different than me running a diner right so because if I had five dogs and I have my five dogs here that's different than me boarding other people's dogs as a commercial Enterprise those yes but she's not open they're sleeping there she's not open for business to the public when the dogs are there if I made it a hotel right I'll I'll I'll move the analogy to a hotel if I I can have my family sleepover I can't have a a hotel and people to sleep over and just say well because they're sleeping it's not a commercial Enterprise anymore it is a commercial Enterprise I'm not saying it's not a commercial Enterprise I'm simply saying hours and it is 24 hours and that's that's you you're trying to you're trying to kind of say it's it's not what it is I mean it's what she's doing right now during the day is very different than boarding dogs she's now boarding dogs on a 24hour basis where prior to now she was training dogs during business hours those are two different things your hotels check in at night time in the night can't do that here all right um nevertheless the borrow ordinance specifies certain hours and the variance that you're going for on a decard is a variation or um an override of that permitted time usage that's why we have this and that's why I need testimony I think personally on on that uh from a professional person that's that's my status M Miss styley um before you want you want to give us your outlook of of of this situation with the ordin with the uh variances and um the need of a professional test um yes thank you I in other circumstances um I believe we have permitted applicants to provide testimony regarding what is required to meet a variance um to establish a variance without having professional testimony um Mr Baron's Prov provided the or explained what the criteria that's required for the relief that's being requested and we've heard testimony from the applicant as to why she thinks she meets those criteria um it's up to the board to weigh whether the applicant's testimony provides the support for what is being requested and if the applicant and their attorney wanted to present a planner's testimony they could have but I don't think that's going to happen today okay I'm gonna give the board um an opportunity individually the way in on on this issue but Mr Atkins I would also mention we need testimony on parking uh which is not the D variance which is the C variance U Miss Bolan you have an opinion about um the variances whether they're presented by a professional or not I um I I am comfortable with what the the attorney's presentation and um I'm going off of what Tom Burns uh said that it's not really the main use but an accessorary use okay Mr Ryan oh wait Mr feffer uh I agree with Miss Bolan couldn't have said it better so I would um I'll leave it at that okay thank you Mr Gibbons I trust our professionals so I I'm stick with what uh with Mr what Mr Baron's uh brought to us so I'm good okay um all right so we'll move on now um we have a um Mr Atkins we have a situation with paring we do we have 10 spots we only I think we're only required we only required to have eight and the applicant testified right they rarely use more than three or four and they park in the back and that she also testified that the people that come there they drop their stuff off and leave they pick up dog food and leave nobody goes there to stay there so I don't understand how if you look at the site there is any kind of parking issue well there certainly is if you wanted the spots relined or repainted we could accomplish that but there's plenty of room for it all right what I'm particularly concerned with the parking uh in the front which I def defin as from the uh from the gauge to the street you you're going to need some stripe spaces there um and I think we all agree on that we will do that we'll accept that as a condition of approv okay all right um those um stripe spaces should be of the proper size not of the of the size that uh Mr kasner put in with his little pencil um we would ask the building the building official to come out and and then then miss Gil Ron will will obey his dimensional criteria yeah um I would yes I would prefer that that OCC with Mr Barons and Mr deac however it isin yes so Tom do you have any problem uh with that situation yeah no I mean I'm not an engineer and and um I I do have a couple thoughts about it I you know obviously the site's developed and it's been the way it it is for for a while now I I think you know one of the reasons applicants come to the board is to try to correct deficiencies and we do have some parking deficiencies so from a you know safety perspective functionality I think Mr merman suggestion makes sense to look at how the the current spaces could be reigned so that they con form to the code so and we accept we accept that right okay well just give me another second just to elaborate so uh the minimum number of uses required for the mix of uses the meaning the apartment and the dog training use uh have been determined to be eight so they need at least eight they're showing 10 on the plan so we we could even lose a space or two technically if it you know gets us to have compliant parking and in particular on the The W the left or South side of the property there are parallel parking spaces shown some of those spaces are fairly short let's say so it might make more sense to have the correct size parallel parking spaces there and maybe lose a space for instance just so it could be striped correctly and and again be functional be safe Etc so that may be my recommendation is that the the board Grant the flexibility to lose a space or two as long as it remains compliant so that we can get better sized compliant parking spaces in coordination with the building department engineer whoever needs to look at it no objection okay great um I guess we don't need comments from the board if you agreed uh let me just see where we are um do you have any further Mr merman um your camera is off um I don't know if you can bring that back up or not is on now yes okay um okay um I guess Mr Atkins do you have any um further thing to uh to put before the board any no I was just say I thank the board for its attention and its constructive comments and I would ask if to approve this local small business use in the community and with the reasonable request that she's requesting and we'll more than happy to agree to the lighting condition and to the striping of the parking condition in essence upgrade the site to a more uh current Conformity than it's been for many many years um one issue I'd like to discuss with you um is the um condition of the variance we we're presenting um a variance for this use for the Times permitted by Statute um I think that this approval should go with the business only and not with the land um do you have a problem with that no I think that's appropriate okay because it's very specific to the business I totally agree okay very good um okay I are there any further comments from board members on the uh issues we've discussed so far before we go out for public comment just just to confirm just to confirm what was just agreed to so the so the variance we just agreed would be just for this business or this business specific to this business obviously the board dogs overnight wouldn't go for a hardware store so yes we agree so if the youth changed or if the business changed or if even they they'd have to come back if they wanted to operate overnight they have to come back to the board yeah if the operations change even if um the operations change for your business where you want to board more than 10 dogs overnight you have to come you have to come back absolutely right okay I just wanted to confirm that's what was just agreed upon thank you think I think it's reasonable as any other any other board members want confirmations before we go for public comment okay not hearing any I'll accept the motion um to go out to public comment so moved second second thank you um I guess we could take a Voice vote on that all in favor I all oppose any extensions okay now we'll go out for public comma and I guess U miss steinley you can handle yes those thank you we do have some members of the public if you're interested in asking a question or making a public comment please raise your hand on Zoom now or you can dial star9 on your telephone so you can press the raise hand button or dial Star n no no one has raised their hand so I think we're we're good okay so then could we have a oh wait I'm sorry Mr M we do have one person all right so you'll have to unmute it the telephone number is 0382 if you press star n on your telephone keypad or star six excuse me you'll be able to speak all right please state your name uh and address for the record hello yes the address is 45 River Edge Road and the name is Tang so two questions first question is I think the applicant had said the plan is to have 10 dogs maximum at at the boarding house at a given time but that it would be preferred if the fire marshal granted the max occupancy rate of X I don't recall what the number was no no we've agreed to accept the cap of 10 okay and then what is the plan for excessive barking if any for the dogs like what's the plan for noise control if let's say you have nine well- behaved dogs but there's one that barks and causes the other ones to engage in barking for an extended time that's a great question so uh number one I I want to go back to prevention so prevention really is just like with anything in life like your health or whatever it is prevention is the number one thing so again all that screening of making sure the dogs uh aren't going to be barkers is number one um on a daily basis making sure their needs are fully fulfilled so by the time it's time to go to bed they are just sleeping like logs um number three we're going to be uh always having like zen music playing so they can't hear outside and they're nice and relaxed uh number four we're going to be uh installing shutters in the outside that will also help with um noise control number five we have if there is a bark um I'm going to also be installing something that uh immediately lets me know that there is a dog barking and if it you know one bark might be okay but if it continues on I would assume that there would be some somebody breaking in downstairs you know like an intruder and I would go downstairs and uh or I'd look on the camera and if I can settle them that way that's great and if I cannot settle them I would go downstairs myself and make sure that they were okay and resettle them and then back to what I said before about uh if that excessive barking continued because this you know one dog had a behavior issue I would immediately switch that dog to solo care call the family and let them know that that that their dog has to their dog's not suited to have this care and they're going to have to go back to their own house and you also live there so you're interested in not being disturbed yeah and I also live there so yeah I would I I would not allow that to happen that's you know your comfort and respecting you as a neighbor uh whether it was just my own dog or dogs or business is really really important to me okay do you have any other questions or comments no that's it thank you okay thank you thank you all right anyone else in the public wishing to ask questions or make a comment you can raise your hand on Zoom all right it looks like we're good to go okay that being the uh condition uh I'll close to the public close pick a motion close to the public so moved second okay um there was a second I didn't catch it yes Mr did I hear you all right e fine thank you um before I go to final comments with the boy members I want to um put forth some of the conditions of the final um motionally uh what it will contain the contents so that you can um work on that in your final comments um I got I got I'm GNA read off my notes um we have a applicant agrees to limit um 10 dogs maximum um to the site um there'll be security systems okay I just inject 10 dogs maximum for boarding for okay you want to say okay that's good for boarding um boarding I'm writing down here okay um there will be security systems installed um exterior lighting will be shielded and pointed to the interior of the property as opposed to spilling over the fence um walking um between the fence in the street will be um sliced according to uh borrow standards and will be reviewed by the uh borrow building department and the burrow planner in conjunction to location and and and with the owner in the field as to a location and size um one two three four and and all parking will be restriped um that parking being on the asphal between the uh the uh fence IND the street now did I miss anything um yeah I think all the all yes yes yes yes conforming to the the size that the town now requires correct yeah I believe that's what I said and the other one is that the that the variance for the extended hours for boarding purposes um will go with the business and not be um transferable while the land yes okay now okay so Bo members um if you want to have a discussion and um comment on those or add any others or embellisher be my guest and we'll start with Miss Bolan nope I think you have everything covered thank you okay we move on to Mr feffer nothing further from me thank you okay Mr cray I'm good good okay and Mr Gibbons I'm good thank you um and I'm fine so did if did I miss anybody I don't believe so um So based on that can we have a motion to um Grant the uh the variances uh with the conditions that we just stipulated don't move second I need a sec thank you all right very good so now Miss steinley I believe we're going to need a roll call vote all right one second all right and uh I'll just I'll call the role Miss Boland yes Mr merman yes pardon me Mr merman yes okay Mr feffer yes Mr Craig yes yes Mr Gibbons yes all right the motion passes okay great um I just have one other questions Mr Barons would do you think it this would the appropriate time to at least memorialize the apartment as a pre-existing nonconforming use I think even better than that it was granted D1 use variants relief as part of that so okay right I I mean it goes either way I mean yeah that was part of the application and relief that was requested and approved very good okay and the Mets won all right okay more importantly the Yankees are winning even more important okay all right so so welcome award um and uh good luck thank you all thank you so much than you so much for your time okay okay bye bye by the way my office in Riveredge I think this is the latest I've ever been in my office so this is good good night all good night all right so board members we're gonna move on to the Quality Homes after we clear after we clear the Airways here a little bit [Music] and you we Marina you want to introduce the uh topic and what you receed from um Mr Barrett regarding Quality Homes application yeah yes so at the last meeting we heard the application quality home developers LLC for a subdivision um at 312 web Avenue and the application was denied and that on Monday I received a letter from the applicants attorney Mr Barrett asking that the board um reconsidered the decision for the matter um the Mr Barrett advised that the plans were revised so that no waivers will be requested for the submission documents um and the plans have also been revised to include additional drainage that will be installed on the proposed lot um and additional testimony will be provided to that effect and so as we've done in the past we've taken a vote to approve the request for reconsideration or not based on what was submitted by the applicant's attorney and Mr Barrett has advised that he's prepared to come back to the board and Reen notice for the October 23rd meeting okay okay now with that said um Mr Barons yes I had asked you the other day if you could take the tax map map three and blow it up and put it on your screen along the western uh boundary of the burrow M Mr chairman be before Mr Baron's answers I just want to interject that I'm going to be leaving for a moment because my battery is running low and I need to plug in my computer so if I disappear I'm coming back you you got a hall pass okay go ahead okay very good can you put that um up on the screen yes so and and what I have is is not exactly sheet three but it shows the tax uh the parcel lines let's say in relation to um the stream to the West which I think is is what we're after so I'll I'll show this um bear with me here and this is um the states GIS website it's a mapping uh software I guess and the parcel in question is right here block 302 lot2 and you could see uh again it's at the I'll stop panting the corner of Sixth and web and to the West is the I forget if it's the mil broker the Vana and Brook that that is to the west and one of the questions or one of the requirements was that the um the subdivision map show uh streams or waterways within 200 feet of the site and I I can actually measure this let's see okay bear with me here Sticky Fingers tonight so if we go from let's say even the the closest corner of the site 200 feets right here so you can tell the streams you know approximately 550 feet away okay so not even close in this case so you know I did see Mr Barrett's correspondence and he um indicated that they would not be requesting any waivers and would comply with all the completeness items and I believe the reason the application was denied not because it required variant relief but because the board didn't have the required information you know uh to begin with so you know let the application proceed but um the board was uncomfortable with the level of information that's provided Mr Barrett indicated he's going to provide that information I think once he does because it is a fully conforming twool out subdivision that legally the the board has to approve it is is the way the municipal land use law um treats these things barring any wild unforeseen circumstances but I believe that's that's the case and and I think in this context it's appropriate to reconsider the application which is the request as opposed to submitting a new application I mean I'll I'll defer to Marina on that but that's the request that's being made well Mr baren the reason I brought it up is Mr G you had uh very much good concern regarding the the issue of the distance to the war body and that's why I wanted to review it for your purpose if for the rest of the board members um if Mr gibons if you do have copies of the uh tax M um you could you could look at that that part on a tax map um yeah I I had looked at it on Google Maps when we were when we were in the middle of the the conversation and obviously I didn't know what 200 feet looked like um was a very valid comment and I just wanted to make sure that you you were satisfied and if any of the board members had a similar concern it was also it was the streams not to cut you off Mr chairman but it was the streams it was how they were going to deal with storm water and primarily impacts to neighbors as well as utilities Etc so you know the streams was that was one of the questions that was raised right in any event Mr parrot indicated he's going to address all those outstanding um just can I just ask one question while we're on that topic so are we going to see what they're proposing for um devel wall for retaining wall because that's one of my main concerns is that that house Downstream yeah is gonna get flooded they're gonna get flooded gonna get flooded that I'm not sure but they Mr Barrett advised that they were going to provide testimony and um submissions regarding proposed drainage um on the on the two law proposed so um I'd like to I'd like to see engineering on what they what they want to have for that retaining wall yeah I think that that thing is gonna be because I don't I I didn't get a good answer from their engineer Mr Gibbons I agree with you um as an engineer he's GNA have many challenges engineering wise on that project and I think one of them is going to be the of that retaining wall um and because I've designed many of those at that height um I think the other challenge is going to be um how he's going to handle that portion of the site he could put a building in there that that comes out or the basement comes out onto the the gray or even with a three- foot high returning wall but then he's going to have a height problem and a fill problem question question I mean are they no Mr Craig's question was whether they're asking anything more than the subdivision right now and that that's correct they're only asking for the subdivision because residential um Lots if they don't require any variances do not get sub site plan review um so they do undergo as necessary the soil movement permits and thing and all the building department review and Engineering review on that end um but they wouldn't necessarily require site plan approval so Mr Barrett is going to be providing the new the additional information regarding drainage and all of the items that were not included um in the original plans okay okay Mr Feer did you return no all right yep he's here oh he's here I'm here yes I'm here okay while you were gone what we did is we showed that it was roughly 500 feet from this site to the uh stream or the water body on the Westerly boundary of between pamis and River Ed so I just want you to be filled in on that all right thank you okay all right um are there any other comments regarding Mr Barett request before we uh vote on her well what would what would be the alternative they have to start this whole application process over again um yes and he mentioned that in his letter that if we could come up with a decision tonight he can get his mailings out be in a timely fashion for the next meeting I believe is that true Ed is that yeah he Ed shaking his head yes it is true this is essentially Friday and this is essentially the same kind general idea that we had with the building on uh over by Total Wine yep the similar process regarding that simar similar idea yeah on the Dark Star application we did the same type of type of process understood okay any other uh comments concerns of board members before we um consider uh approving Mr Barrett's request so so just to be clear a yes vote means that we are agreeing to reconsider that's the way I understand it yes all right thank you um any other comments all right can we get a motion to um respond to Mr barish request yes we'll entertain a a new application as he has suggested second thank you all right Marina do we need a uh a roll call Vote or can a Voice vote suffice I will do a roll call vote just for the record and I'll uh Miss band was not present at that meeting um so I will not be calling her just because that's the same process we did at the last for the our La the last application where we had reconsideration but miss Boland can participate in the the next hearing if she's there all right so this is for the motion to Grant the reconsideration Mr merman yes Mr pepper yes Mr cig yes yes Mr gibons yes okay the motion passes very good okay um that's it I guess good night all thank you and we get out of here in the timely fashion all right all right good night thank you that doesn't mean I'm going to chair all the meetings f for can we just get a motion to adjourn okay all right second thank you all in favor POS abstain okay good night all have a good Columbus Day all right good night yeah