##VIDEO ID:9U1g3SPeVlQ## said start he's just running a couple he said to start ahead but m is he's coming he's coming he's on his way but he's running so he said to start without him no I got wait i't job yeah and as I was opening my trunk I thought it was farther open I just like smashed the trunk in my no blood start crying like yeah just really hurt I smashed my face with my trunk yesterday and then I got out to get like one of my yard and I thought my trunk was open elep my cousin a concussion from a trunk was it was a really so Jason said to go ahead and start without him he is running a couple minutes late and it is 6:31 so I'm going to call our work session for November to order um thanks for our staff that are here presenting for us tonight and anyone that is watching online our first agenda item is to pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the republ for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all um I quickly passed out the from the email that we got from officer Jill I my intention is to sign this I don't know if all of us would like to sign it and then submit it or I'm fine submitting it but we wouldn't need to ask Jason if um I would sorry there is a couple errors with Pine Meadow and River View just copies and past I will fix them though okay perfect while we're here perfect and then we could sign quick before we leave tonight as long as Jason's agreeable okay otherwise we will move on to proficiency based grading and Reporting which one of you gets to leave I start good evening School board members I'm excited for this presentation from our instructional leaders thank you all for coming um this is on proficiency based grading which is grounded in our vision of being future minded and student focused so proficiency based grading aimed to provide a more clearer more meaningful feedback for student learning and as we explore this mindset change in our principles and Dr talk about it's important to highlight that Minnesota's other top um districts across the state y Mina westa deloa m have already adopted this approach so to set the stage for this discussion I'm going to briefly outline a proficiency based grading has evolved through Decades of Education reform and I'm somewhat of a public education history nerd so forgive me I can't help you so as we look back in the 1980s um you see President Reagan up there and there was a report titled at risk that came out in 1983 and that came out because of declining in SAT scores low academic standards and an increasing percentage of kids not graduating in high school with the skills that they need so it really did come out of that an urging for the states to think about accountability higher academic standards and it urg Educators and policy makers to start thinking about how do we ensure that students are actually learning what they're supposed to learn so this early push for accountability that I think we all think started in like the 2000s actually goes back to the early 1980s so in 19 in the 1990s you see President H W bush and President Clinton really worked on having State L standards and then in 2001 you see uh President Bush signing No Child Left Behind which was really the focus on accountability across our whole country so during this past decade we know that our teachers have been really working on trying to make sure they're addressing the standards but just as important as this idea are we focusing on making sure that parents are understanding what we're teaching and are we partnering with them so tonight our goal is to talk a little bit about how we can do that better um and what our mindset can be about report cards um our principles have been working really hard on this so I welcome them here this evening and turn it over to them all right and that ends your history so I'm going to start off uh with a little bit of background um this graphic here is not new to you uh you it's been shared with you a few times over the years and it's going to be shared with you again just to give us a little bit um more information about where we've been and where we're going and why it's that we are on this uh path so this image depicts our instructional road map from 2022 to 2026 and it was developed uh to support the work that we're doing around instructional alignment in our district so uh really to um to share why we needed to bring in plc's and start working on this um standards and curriculum alignment work so uh where when we started that standards inquiry and the curriculum alignment process developing common assessments and then begin U that common grading and Reporting System um when we look at the road map and then we look at this framework here on the side and I don't expect that you can actually read that but hope I am going to show it you in a larger format here in just a second but what I do hope that you can notice is that um over here in 2223 you see that it says phase one in this spine print and then last year we were in phase two and then this year up here it says phase three phase three well all of these phases actually relate to these numbers in this framework phase one phase two phase three so here in4 2 phase three is actually that proficiency based learning grading and Reporting inquiry so that relates to this phase three right here proficiency phase reporting and next year as we look at 25 26 phase three is a continuation or is the implementation and refinement of phase three work so that's a continuation of that work okay so moving on enlarge that a bit uh we're looking at District priorities in relation to proficiency based reporting uh so the we're we're going to talk about these three bullet points but to start off we're going to look mostly at the center of this framework this guaranteed and viable um curriculum that's the purpose of the framework so we have these three phases uh or these three components of the framework and the purpose of that is to create a guaranteed and viable curriculum that ensures high levels of learning for all of our students that's why we're here and that's truly the purpose of of that work that framework and the guaranteed aspect of a curriculum that's where it it requires all students who are enrolled in the same class the same course the same grade level to be exposed to the same rigorous curriculum regardless of the teacher or the classroom that they're enrolled in so if they're assigned to Zach's class and my class and we're both teaching the same thing the same course if we're both teaching chemistry let's say what the students that are enrolled in Zach's course and my course are both exposed to the same curriculum they're both getting the same experience coming out of that the standards that is addressing and the standards that I'm addressing are the same they're getting the same experience that's a guaranteed part of that hey Megan how will you ensure that that's actually taking place through this process okay so I'm sorry I was I supposed to ask for questions oh sorry that's on me that's okay that's a very good question but that's one that I'm hoping we will okay we will be able to address an answer through this okay whole process all right I'll write them down for great question and spot on no and we better be able to answer that so if if we don't answer that then we haven't done our job so you're right on um the viable aspect of this recognizes that teaching the curriculum and covering the curriculum are two very different things so while teachers can cover a lot of content to teach the curriculum requires that students actually learn what the teachers are teaching um so the amount of content that the teachers are required to teach is exceeds what they can actually teach in the a lotted time that they have then it's not viable so we have to ensure that the content does not exceed the time that they have so that's why we have to go through this process to ensure that our teachers do not have so much that they can't feasibly cover it in the alloted time so to establish a curriculum here's where we're going to get the answer to your question to establish a curriculum that's both guaranteed and viable teams of classroom teachers must engage in a process to build a common understanding of what students should know and be able to do that's a common question that we ask of our teachers frequently that's the number one question in their plc's or their professional learning communities what do we want students to know and be able to do we must have the same understanding of Standards so that's the first phase in this process at standards inquiry we must be teaching to the same standards and using the same assessments that's phase two and we must be grading and Reporting in the same way and if we're doing all of these things we have created a guaranteed and viable curriculum so it has to have all three of those components now what's exciting to say is that we've done that at our elementary system and we continue to do that since 2016 we started that um standards based process at all three other Elementary systems well it wasn't two three at that time but it was two um and we continue to refine that year after year so it's only getting better um and and they know that that's a continual process that's not something that hey you do it once and it's done you need to refine that frequently so that's why plcs are so important we we do that work constantly to make it better and better um but we've completed that cycle that phase with with the addition of pH three with that proficiency based or standards based reporting um beginning in 2016 with them and so that's that process has been going great um the other priorities here is a focus on clearer and greater communication with our students and families and that is what proficiency based reporting allows uh allows for and we we feel strongly that our students and families deserve that and also an accurate rep learning and student Behavior Uh because they get reported on separately we believe strongly that both of those are important both student learning of course and that's why they're here but student Behavior especially around academics is also important so we need our families to hear about that too um but the behavior shouldn't influence what the academic grade is so that should be so um there that's our priorities um so that's the background piece now in just a few minutes our principles are going to talk about some of the opportunities that proficiency based grading and Reporting offer our students and our families but first I get to share some of the learning that we did this summer to help uh build our mindsets around some of the learning that was needed for this so um we started off this summer with PLC or professional Learning Community training um and I mean we have exceptional teachers in our district I think we all know that but when they even give up some of their summertime to to learn it speaks volume so um day after school gets out 34 our say hey we want to go back to school and they hop on a bus and go and learn go and learn with us so we went down to Minneapolis and spent two and a half days um learning about professional learning communities and they came back and shared with their colleagues everything that they learned and it was exceptional I mean we we've gathered so much great information and they were able to share with their colleagues this fall and then we Ed the summer with um almost 50 of our staff members our build members um learning at buildt Institute as you can see that is more than 50 people um that is built Institute but we partnered we did something a little bit different this year we partnered with stock Rapids rice and we were able to bring in a national speaker so that is Tom Shimmer clear on the right hand side um Trisha was able to join us as a parent so we um invited parents from our what used to be world's best Workforce uh advisory committee um uh we had spots for three parents and three people were able to or volunteer so we didn't have to draw names or anything uh so three people came and so we had some parents there as well and uh we shared the space with SS and we message around bringing accuracy to student assessment through proficiency based mindset so this is a book he wrote and all of us were there to hear that message over two days and it was great learning you Trisha can share her perspective to sometime um one thing though I wanted to share or highlight um about this that we did a little bit different and super proud of this uh is that our team all 50 of these people approximately 50 people really dove into scholarly research ahead of it so we found and this is just a an image of it but we located 177 professional research-based articles and so these are peer reviewed articles that have been published in professional journals educational um Publications that um are all around standards based rating or proficiency based reporting um that really are backed in solid research around this topic and so we're not talking about just a handful of research here we're talking about I mean nearly 200 articles that um are bu MERS signed up to read so they had to select at least three that they um were interested in reading on their own and then we had a few that everybody read collectively um they had to write a summary on on the ones that they selected and then they had to rate them and now that's available to all of our staff so now we have summaries so we're talking about articles that range from you know five pages to page dissertations so we don't need all of our staff reading all of that um but now they can just read a short summary on it um and I think it's pretty awesome that we have something like that and so heading into Bill Institute we have some our teachers who've really read the research and we're able to ask very informed questions of of an expert um and come in very prepared for for the learning it was pretty exceptional so that was that was fun um one more slide uh our speaker said when we when we first joined the learning um he gave us a couple of questions just to ponder as a team uh he had us just in the back of our minds think do we agree on these two things and throughout our learning he just kept bringing us back to this and so we ask we're going to ask the same of you today as we present some some more of our learning with all of you do we agree that some students take more or less time to learn and do we also agree that a grade should represent what a student has learned so if you can keep those two things in the back of your mind as we continue to share tonight um all right all right so the next part of the presentation is to share with you some specific evidence of how we're using proficiency based grading practices in our prek 5 system and then give you some concrete examples and look at opportunities of what this can look like as we move um this practice through to sixth through 12th grade so on our next slide um really the thing to think about as we show you some of the evidence of current practice is how we are conveying information through proficiency based reporting to um families and um for teachers as they are looking at their data and to inform their instruction so we begin with proficiency based practices actually as early as preschool and if you've ever had a child in our system a three-year-old or a four five-year-old is getting a report called TS gold and that is a conversation with families where we are showing how students are meeting widely held expectations towards several standards in an early childhood we call them indicators of progress but that top example there just shows the range of one through nine and the color banding would show what we would consider widely held for different age bands and those are very specific to an objective for learning that practice then moves forward through K5 and we start looking at more specific examples so if you kind of screen back up there we go um very common formative assessment we'll take standards teachers have created priority standards within the academic areas of math reading um and science social studies social moal and so we have formative assessments this is just an example of a kindergarten formative assessment where we're looking at collecting data over a period of time so that isn't a oneandone tool that tool might be used several times throughout a gring period as we're monitoring growth towards proficiency and then that would be specifically reported to parents um on their report one thing to note in both of these examples and some more examples we'll bring forward later on is that the academic progress is um measured separately from any behavioral data so um Zach will share an example in a little bit about how we report that information separate mostly to convey information um clearly to parents next slide I think we one more so I would um at this time we just want to take a minute to think about an example that really our community or people without students in our schools could really um connect to so you think about your vehicle when you need help repair and your car is not running efficiently you take it into the shop your mechanic will run a diagnostic assessment talk to you about what repairs might be needed complete those repairs and then once again run that diagnostic assessment um to make sure that your car is ready to be on the road if in fact we got back from a mechanic this type of grade traditional grading your car is now at a B+ when you got that report back you would wonder right what is the status of my vehicle why isn't my vehicle an A+ car as when I bought it so um that's a lot about what we're thinking around the school Pro um notion of progress or proficiency based grading so to the next slide really we want more specific information we want to know that our engine is working well our batter is up to par our transmission is great we can see that our tires are okay have some life left in them but we know we're going to need to get some attention for our breaks and we would have a conversation then with our mechanic how soon how important is this um and so when we think about proficiency based grading that's really the level of detail that we want when we're communicating to parents about what it is a kid knows and is able to do around a certain um literacy or math practice um so that's going to show so taking a look at our report cards and Julia mentioned before sort of Megan like reporting academic learning um and behavior as two separate things so I'm just going to give you like a a wide lens on the left there is what you'll normally see um on a tradition on a on a report card I Oak Ridge Pine Meadow and riview that that's a report card you'll see just a screenshot of like the first pement on the right is a high school report card so now what we're going to do is we're going to dive a little bit into the I would say the elementary side report card um on what you see and going to see the difference between them so if we take a look at it you can see in the top left there I just did a fifth grade one for home room we have Behavior separate and we use saber strong as our indicator so we didn't use all of the acronyms but we use safe we used respectful and we used engaged right and then on the right side there are um just some of the language Arch language ARS benchmarks that we report on to parents so in there for example uh uh fifth grade 1.11 drives inferences using text evidence and prior knowledge okay again like we talked about before we want to make sure that a grade represent what a student has learned right so if it we want to be you know as clear as we can if a kid doesn't respect self or others or property that's not in 511 that's over in respectful so that's over there separate if a kid um still learning how to raise your hand in third grade and not blurt out an answer right that's not in identifies conflict in text that's totally something separate so at the um at Oak Ridge Pine Meadow and river we really try to separate those two um and I think a cool way about doing it is we revert it back to save or strong we have it being safe respectful engaged language that kids hear all day every day um throughout throughout the school um so we're going to then take a look and Shane's going to talk just a little a little bit about the high school card has so much more information on it and actually you jump back two slides real quick that when you see up on the on the right there the bottom half is attendance only so go Ahad go go forward to so really at the secondary level this is all we're recording right now on what a student go and can do um and and that's what we're all used to at the elementary level since 2016 here been giving a whole lot more information and that's what we're all used to so one of the things that we're working on looking at at the secondary level is how can we continue to provide more information to students and to parents about the specifics of what's going on in algebra what's going on in in geography that lends itself to being a B minus how is a student doing with those standards part of it is like exact already searing all the behaviors making sure that we're truly looking just at their academic learning and Behavior separately but believing that as we've continued our work around standards line and standards based instruction we can give more information about what a student knows do and and ultimately I'll speak to the high school level only but I hand the whole idea is to continue to EMP empower the student to own their learning and continue to work on what exactly they need to know be so we talked about um report academic learning behav seate grades that's a that's a key Point um and the other key point is using the most recent evidence of learning for accuracy of learning so we have a little activity that we can we can do here so we're going to take a look at recent assessments and how that can maybe provide a better accurate measure of learning and look at it over time versus like one snapshot so let's hypothetically say uh the six of you um are tasked to hire a bus driver okay I'll never ask you to do that yeah but so we're in dire need we need some bus drivers so which bus driver would you want your to drive your travel so you want some information right like what we did the interview what's going on with this bus driver well I'll tell you this over the let's just hypothetically say that every year a bus driver has to take an assessment right and we gathered the last seven assessments and bus driver a b and c all average 70% on all the assessments the last seven years so which one do we want to try we don't know right we need more let's get some more information Z like what's going on with these assessments I clicked so exam one for bus driver a was seven years ago they got 95 and six years ago they got a 40 you guys see it 80 55 90 okay those are the seven it averages up to 70% post driver B 7 years ago got 40 maybe did some reflecting some learning 50 55 80 80 90 95 bus driver SE 95 80 90 50 80 40 kind of like a ping pong ball right kind of going up and down you have to hire one which one we get higher b b right it just shows a prog a progression of of learning which is kind of twofold in there sometimes um an average doesn't really tell the whole picture right we gotta kind of Zoom back a little bit and take a look at it at um at it across the area and I think that just goes to show again like more information um is always more beneficial all right my turn so the next portion of this is looking at um the importance of allowing students more than one attempt um so reassessment allowing students to try again and acknowledging that kids learn at different PES we know that some kids need a little more time and some kids need time um so we know that our students learn at different speeds we know some need more time some need less time um and what reassessment does is allows for that to happen let me give you an example um let's say we have a student who's really struggling with double digit subtraction right we know the stud struggling we give um her a test and she doesn't do very well as parents as Educators we would hope we wouldn't just throw up our hands and say well double digit subtractions not your thing we're going to move on to multiplication here we go right that's not what we're looking for what we're looking for is what about double digit subtraction did you not understand we're going to rete more guided practice we going to help that student instead of just moving on to the next concept we would hope as Educators we give that student another chance at that test right after they had the opportunity to relearn to gain that knowledge sometimes I think there's this perception that that's not life in the real world though right we don't get a second chance um so that's how you see the image of the driver exam on there some of us in this room maybe had to take that test more than once that's no um so that's that's real world um you think about the ACT exam or sat many of us maybe took that more than one time that's the high stakes real world exam that we were able to do again right um and we didn't take the same test over and over without putting some effort in we went back we studied we looked at the ones we got wrong we got help um and that's the idea with reassessment when we look at proficiency based learning as well um these examples I think hit home for me um for some reason when students get to school we think that they learn in steps in lock step right just because a student is 12 they should know multiplication division basic facts we should all be at the same point but if we go back and those of us that have children or have cared for small children we know that they learn at different rates and speeds some of us maybe had babies that crawled and walked early maybe baby number two crawled and walked a little later both achieved the same skill right both eventually got there one needed more guidance one needed more practice and more time um there's probably nothing more true than potty training right um something magical happens for some kiddos at two for others it's three and for others it takes longer right and there's mistakes and there's accidents and there's more training and learning that needs to happen we don't one shot right we give them multiple attempts to show Mastery to show they can do it we believe the same should happen for our kids in school it should be given more than one attempt at a skill especially the important ones so the next piece looking at at the use of zeros and the use of zeros inning and and I would say for teachers this is a something that takes a little bit of time to understand and you might say swallow for all of us of Our Generation it's a common practice if we don't turn something in as a zero and and at its base level that's understandable however I would say a good practice for all those we when we know better we do better so when you take a look at the use of the zero and you go back to the question they asked you Megan asked you near the beginning of the presentation does a grade represent what a student has learned so if a student doesn't turn something in and they get a zero what we're saying by that then is that the student has learned nothing and so as the educator in the room that would be really hard to stomach that you were here with me and I'm saying you've learned nothing so and all of these things absolutely go together but the idea of zero is really it's taking a look at is it used for accuracy to measure learning if so then it's saying no learning has taking place is it used for leverage to get the student to do the work and in percentage based to 0 100 system there's a lot of mathematical flaws with zeros and again when we know better we do better so when you look at that that if if it if it's accuracy again that means that we're saying that they've learned nothing if you're using it to say that me giving a zero means you're going to do better at turning it in research actually says that doesn't happen it's not necessarily motivating that that is zero have children that would respond differently but as a general rule a zero is not motivating it actually deating for a stud um so when you take a look at again we talked about zero assumes no learning is taking place so you jump to the next one pleas so a mental exercise for you or on paper or if you want to pull out a calculator um there's a lot on the slide so start by looking at the right side standard grading scale um and and we'll go about twoth thirds of the way down where you see a c minus and we're going to assume that we're working with a student that's achieving at a 70% proficiency okay so right on that edge of the C minus but they're seven out of 10 they're getting 70% on pretty much everything that they turn in is that perfect absolutely not but would we say that the students potentially still learning and growing yes absolutely so let's say at the beginning of the quarter that student gets a zero out of 10 they didn't turn it in so they get a zero again a practice that is common and understandable for many of us but we know better we do better so if the student is learning actually at 70% but they got a zero the question on the bottom left is the one I want you to think about if every other assignment that student does is s out of 10 70% how many times does that student need to complete an assignment to actually get a grade of 70% can't get mathematically you can't you can't if if if everything I do is at 70% you can never get back to 70% let's say you add rounding it because we'll round and and you can get to 69.5 as your average we'll round you up to 70 which is where we agreed your learning is at so to spare you the time of looking at it but this is something that that Tom took us all through the summer it would take you 140 more assignments at 70% to get to 692 and be able to R so the idea of just how damaging a zero could be to a grade and and is not motivating and there some would say well they'll try harder and they'll get 100% and that'll help raise it up sure if they are learning at 100% And that's certainly are goal for everybody but for some of our students they're not % proficiency and that zero has a pretty damaging effect so going back to the idea of accuracy versus leverage pretty clear how it's not accurate is that we're not saying no learning is taking place and then the idea of Leverage and teaching a student how to be responsible would be much more appropriate to them just have them actually do it even if it's late doing it that's where in the idea someone say where was using responsibility the respons is well I'm giving you zero so you don't have to do it no you haven't turned it in yet you need to do it responsibility is do your work and helping and supporting the student to do their work so is that that the numbers of that make some sense okay so ultimately a piece for us as as the principles piece for all of our staff is really taking a look at and we shared some of those pieces on the traditional grading that you see on the bottom left side of the screen um potentially penalizing behavior and we've talked about we're going to separate behavior from the grade um it's not just an accumulation of points it's actually about demonstrating learning and and so we're going to identify what we're looking for and has the student demonstrated showed you a secondary report card with a single grade versus the Elementary report card and the information that we have in there and then the idea of how mean the so the average how challenging that can be um both the example I just talked about but also in the BS driver example that's that's not the right information if their average of 70% but we saw clear growth for one and somebody else that was um and so then when you took take a look at the top right side was in proficiency based grading and Reporting standards are separate and we've talked about each of those pieces um common practices and and you asked a little bit earlier about the idea of when are we going to Ure that the guante that was happening we are through our our PLC process our professional learning communities and and just repeated conversation talking looking how are we measuring this okay how do students do so at the high school that's a weekly activity for our PLC groups and something that we do and similar at other buildings so C the next piece for us the big thing as a staff at the high school for sure and K5 has done this work already and I won't speak for Angela but is the mindset it's all about a mindset shift and so for us working on it ourselves but then ultimately and sharing with you tonight sharing it with parents sharing with students and building what a proficiency based mindset looks like and it's a growth mindset and and that's what we want for students that growth mindset continue to build the grit I'm going to go back and I'm going to learn and I'm going to get to where I need to be and all of those things around proficiency Bas mindset are the heavy lifting and as you're doing each of them you'll be atting so I'm going to thank our instructional leaders um there was a reason rational why I asked them all to be here I think they've all been working on this together diligently over the last 18 months maybe years and we've learned a great deal from each other as we preparing for this you know I I I want to stress something that I think I just heard from Shane that it wasn't long ago that our teachers were independent contractors do you hear that often people wonder sometimes outside of the education world what does that mean it means the teacher would come to school go to their classroom sit down work work with their 25 children or their 90 children that day and never necessarily ever have a conversation with another teacher it wasn't unusual what the PLC work has done and how it lends itself to the things we're talking about this even is we are now talking about an agreement among our teachers about what is a guaranteed valuable curriculum what are the things that we're going to agree that we need our children our students to show and then having conversations about how we're assessing and Reporting on that together as teams of teachers um is really that next step going back to the 1980s to where I think we've always wanted to be so I'm really excited about this work I'm so glad that a lot of it got started for me um and as I talked to other superintendent the ones that have been doing this for a while um are saying welcome aboard Mike and the other ones I can see them off the corners of these comp rooms wondering they need to start thinking about what they're doing we are open for questions um so thank you okay I have one okay um so when we were talking about or when you guys were talking about late work in zero and and all that at some point the quarter ends there are deadlines and kids who don't turn in work what happens because are we just not going to have end of quarter anymore or at some point something ends absolutely and I'll speak to it from the high school but and somebody we brought Tom sh in the summer would be an expert in this would say there got to be that so there absolutely is at the high school now and and before this year we've had teachers that their deadline was the day St others whose deadline was two days later other deadline was and the unit and other two have said just get it to me with end the court so so we've already had that in in one of the things that we're going to do is is continue to work on at least at the PLC the common course level having the same experience so if in US history the same experience for each of those you heard about the idea that common cul still the art of teaching and the teachers can be able to vot so it might be a different deadline in English than it is in math than it is somewhere else but there's still going to be a dead and at the high school level you're trying to earn credit if I haven't shown you that I've learned it then I shouldn't get the credit and I won't get the credit until I've shown you that I've learned it and that can be done in in the classroom certainly and should be but we already have multiple opportunities for students to go back later result recovery opportunity summer school high school contining to work with the teacher at week after the order things like that that happen so the question is a good one and it's a common one but there's still a deadline and there's still a time where we say no we've we've done that and now we're working here um students will learn really fast that the instruction doesn't stop the expectations for what you learn doesn't stop and so if I didn't do it here I now need to be here and here and so it'll be a piece of helping students get so then my followup question is you've reached the deadline how does that reflect in your grade because it seems like you have the behavior and then you have the learning and they're tied together but we're going to separate them still so I guess at what point is it it sounds like there is no it's too late but there but yet you're saying there's a deadline so the deadline could still be the end of or it could be for daily example it still could be the end of the quarter but if a student doesn't demonstrate at that point it's not necessarily they're going to get it could be that they're not going to get a grade because they're not going to they haven't shown us our so we need to continue to help so then that is a zero essentially it's I I would I would disagree in that it's not a zero because it's not a penalty of final zero okay it's it's a zero in the sense that they haven't gotten anything yet they're still at zero but zero is not their fin necessarily okay does that make sense yep and and I would like to kind of piggyback off that because that's what a question I had it's in reference to like these redos um and the model you put up there where you know if you sh progress and you got a good feel for somebody progressing absolutely I think having a second chance for a redo was good but what if it is because of behavior so kids aren't showing up for class they're sitting there in the corner with their headphones on or they're distracted on their devices and they're just not doing the work I mean it's pretty hard to put together some kind of pattern or at least a previous pattern if all of his tests are zeros or just fails every time because of his behavior re refusing to do the work so where does it where can we support the teachers then when they see that same behavior how are we supporting our teachers to when it's a behavior base how are we supporting them uh not to pass these kids if they're based off Behavior does that make sense I didn't and Shane before you answer that Zach what would happen in the middle school or in school for yeah so what we would do there is we would bring a student that with the teacher and a whole team and it's called an early intervention team and we problem solve on what we can do to help support the kid every Behavior has a reason right every Behavior has a reason so we want to get down to the nitty-gritty and put an intervention in place and whether that intervention is for behaviors or academics whatever but specifically let's talk about we put that intervention in and get the resources and support that we have to help bring that child along um you know I down at the end of Shane like hopefully we don't have it does happen but hopefully we can identify students that need an individual education plan that maybe need um some other skill or support so they're not in a you know geometry 12th grade sitting in the corner not doing it right they would they would have a case manager at the high school they would have specific goals and benchmarks for them so at the at the El elementaries we go ahead and and put those interventions in place um and again the report C I'm not it's different at an elementary than it is to high school right and Shane can talk about if he wants to if he has time about GPA and you know college and all that but at the elementaries we look at again we recorded at the behavior and what they're at and where they are academically and they would be like a progressing right they don't they don't have a 3.0 GPA yet or anything like that but again just putting the supports in for the kid that would be at the elementary level you would still be giving feedback on their proficiency on their academics doing the other part y yeah and it' be no different at the secondary L we'd still look to intervene I I believe and I think everyone sitting next to me would believe no student that comes to school with us wakes up wanting to do for me something getting in the way it might be their device it might be whatever it is but nobody wakes up wanting to do a bad job goal and so we would provide different intervention and for you know what what would that be for the teacher it's going to be dependent on what the behavior is there's times where it's it's helping the students there's times where it's bringing the parents in there's times where it's making sure they don't have their device in their hand right now what we're all doing um but but making sure that everybody in the situation in an equation teacher student parent all has the support that they need and then we have just like said early intervention team we have an early intervention team at the high school well and I told I you know I agree with some of your points but I don't believe that all kids are sitting there wanting to go to school I I I have to go to people's houses in uniform to try and get their kids to school uh and when I talk to them and try to convince them Hey listen to Mom and Dad they don't they don't want to go to school some just don't want to so there's clearly some family Dynamics and stuff like that so again my I can understand putting what do you call them I or no e EIT first so intervention and then they might end up on an i okay but and yeah those are kids hopefully we can catch at an early age and get them to help because again there's a lot of families that are really hurting out there um but I'm talking about the kids that you know just don't want to do the work you know and that's what I'm hearing out there that if you got a kid that shows up up and they're just refusing to take the test or do any homework what are we doing to support the teachers to say hey I've done everything I've let admin know I've let everybody know about this problem but nothing is happening he they have to fail they if they're refusing to do the work something there's got to be consequence eventually when that person is just absolutely refusing to do the work so how do you handle that I I would disagree with your statement got to fail our job is to make sure that we do everything we can that they don't it it none of this takes away the requirement that they learn it adds in and your question is good of what are the supports that we're going to put in place and that's a that's a piece that we work on every day and I can we could each give you lots of different answers but it's it's it's a process that we continue to try to get better and better at putting those supports in place because your your thoughts of treny there kids that don't want to come to school they still don't think they want to or me but something getting in the way of they're coming to school and so it's continue to look at what does that student need at the high school they can't get a diploma until they've shown us that they've learned x amount and that's use at that and so for a student that continues to not do it they're going to continue to not get there and so we're going to continue to do our best to help get them there yeah so it's a it's a that's a generic answer to to your question and I I know it's a tough issue because again I I didn't like school back then I'm lucky I graduated but uh you know you do have to suck it up and and and do the work I would add to just if we think from our teachers perspective I don't think there's a teacher in our district that enjoys giving a failing grade no and I don't like having a fail recruit that I'm teaching I it hurts my heart um but if they're not performing they're not going to pass and that's unfortunately that is life um but you know we're dealing with students versus adults so I can understand your point too a I would add and this is a compliment to everybody in the room and everybody in our communities at the high school right now we're looking at a graduation rate that's nearing 100% every year and so they're getting there our goal is seem to help them get there with more information more more control over um just this is like a 17o question but Megan you're right about the studies that but I did find an article about where they had like compiled the 25 peer-reviewed studies and tried to put him into like a rubric even that was a lot of information um but has there been any what I can't find is any strong supporting data really one way or the other that this shows um meaningful Improvement marginal small yes like the percentages were maybe from 75 to 77% in literacy proficiency um and then I can't remember the math one but it's a small percentage is this approach if taken in full is there studies that are probably out there showing that this is truly going to when they enter into the the world the workforce in or enter into college that they're really a step ahead due to this approach versus traditional is there data showing that I haven't I don't know that I've looked at it from that approach other than we look at it just specifically around feedback and feedback wise yes I mean we we know that students need that immediate feedback and that's what this provides so around standards based grading specifically I don't know that I've read anything currently just around how that would relate but I will I will certainly look and I can get back to you um I don't know that I've read anything recent I don't know that I've even seen anything recently but certainly feedback is kind of the big thing right now and this is directly linked to student feedback yeah so that's where I would say yeah I mean if if they linked this to feedback I would say hands down yes from so John did met analysis hundreds and hundreds hundreds yeah and and has looked at one of the components that are most impactful and and if you look a lot of the components that we're working on and our staff working on for years 2016 is when the first parent letter went out about you'll see some of the most impactful things on the list of 144 is the last I saw from him are near the top or the types of we're talking that could be something on your own your Le that is one of the biggest cor yeah yeah I read that a lot of on I wonder M Megan isn't necessarily research based but if you look at the top performing schools in our state how many of those top performing schools have moved to proficiency base creating that's yeah and when because I I guess those districts have historically been high performing so it's you know was it due to the change to this or is is it because they've traditionally been in that spot you know and has their have their scores improved from when they made this right and I this is just I'm this is more information I'm just asking just because I'm curious because I couldn't find a whole lot and it's an overhaul of a grading system and it's a lot of work for everybody you guys all the teachers just the change of mindset so you know at the end of the day we're here to make sure kids leave uh knowledgeable and ready for the world you know and and have done the best to whatever they AB ility is while they're here and we've gotten that out of them and is this approach truly showing data that supports yes that is you know that is what's coming from this so that's where I think to Shane's point when you break apart the components it is so directly connected to what they encounter in the real world here I am using that where you know school is their real world techically but um you know you think about what they encounter dayto day and the the direct feedback that they get how they get multiple opportunities to uh you know redo things in their in their day-to-day World they don't get one chance you know they they learn from their mistakes day to-day you just think about all the different components of of what is made up of proficiency based in and all of those components are really what you encounter out in in society and I think really what we're it's setting them up for what they would encounter out there so I more so than like the traditional you traditional yeah okay yeah can I just ask a clarifying question really quick because you said your's a 17 points 17 17 points so what I just want to make sure I'm hearing this right so proficiency grading is going to give a more realtime feedback but is traditional grading not giving that same real-time feedback with the system that we're already using with schoolly already I don't think it's giving the explanation would you say isn't it just giving you your your grade yeah I don't know that if you compare reporting I think it's very different I my parent had on I would rather know how my daughter's doing in each Benchmark rather than one letter score right and you're absolutely right I can go into Skyward and I can look at all the grades that are in but I don't necessarily know from that what skills being targeted or what Benchmark or standard they're working on it may tell me that you know her life cycle um project eared a be that doesn't necessarily tell me and it's also teacher practice right what help with where proficiency based I could see you know this is the skill I really need to work with her on why she's really excellent at this one of the things that um kind of always that just resonated with me and kind of stuck with me is it was the the very first date with Tom Shimmer when we were over at resource solution and training um and he put a he put a slide up there um for interview movie your show Buffs it was uh a picture of a million little things if you guys have seen that show or whatever um but he talked about it and he goes you know this proficiency based grading it's a million little things and he you know he doesn't expect every District or every school to do all those million little things you got to take a look at it all and what are what are the things that that you value as a school district and as a community where where do you want to see kids and and take those things um instead of a million things and trying to get great at why not get relentlessly amazing at a few of those things um and that was just one of the things because um when you when you go down this this mindset thinking there's just a lot of like again little questions and those are that's all great um and those things to think of but he just really emphasized with that show um it's just a million little things and the district's got to figure out what like what's Court about what are teachers thinking of this new project I mean is it are they going to push back and say you're adding more to my plate we're already doing it at these three buildings it's already in place just who we are um and it's one thing that you know as as the standards change we continue to evolve and and look at it and see um and again you know million little things what's a big thing for us at the elementary taking behavior and record SE from from academic so I would say and you know Sarah when she was at Pine Meadow I know she but like 2016 I was at the middle school right so I mean it started then and then riverv viiew you know just inherited the teachers with it and a culture yeah I do think I mean it is a lot of work um and if we know anything about teachers they want to be really good at the work that they do it's really important to them that kids are successful and so through the process of getting to the point of proficiency based grading it's all of that back work that kind of sets the stage for that so looking at a set of you know English Language Art standards there are so many of them that to say a kid will be proficient at every single one but we get back to there's not enough time we'd have to teach only language arts well our teachers spent a lot of time unpacking those standards and determining what it is that's a priority for kids when they exit kindergarten first second you know all the way so we would like to see that right all the way through the system that we have expectations about what kids should know and be able to do and the proficiency based grading really communicates to parents here's the standards we've identified that your kid will be proficient at when they exit all each grade level and here's exactly how they're doing as they're leaving the grade and here's exactly how they're doing at benchmarking carries along the way um it also gives teachers the um Prospect of okay we're going to reassess we're going to multiple opportunities feedback on exactly how am I doing and reaching and teaching to the needs of my kids because they all learn at different you know um in different times and and need additional practice or need an alternative instructional method or um need more targeted intervention with a smaller group you know so that those assessments really give teachers that feedback and help me to do a better job of reaching my kids um and then really when we determine this new configuration we're in we were really set on we're going to give these kids one saber experience it's going to be excellent in kindergarten excellent in first grade excellent in second grade and so having our teacher teams you know um in the configuration we have we really can guarantee that because they're doing the planning together they're looking at assessment data they're talking about who's successful they're talking about who needs an alternative instructional their method or environment and so I think we just keep getting better at what we're doing because we're so align and we're really focused on what we want kids to know be able to do and how we're going to ensure that happens for them um but it is a lot of work but teaching is complex and a lot of work and especially when you have high standards high expectations of yourself and the outcomes for your kids it's just complex and a lot of work it's not new work today or it's we notliing s we've been working so hard what is it that we're going to expect to this to Lear and so the reporting piece is the next step um at the secondary level we have our special education staff doing R training read react letters training um but the opportunity provided us staff Al wise we got more time than we' ever had and and the opportunity to really dive into this and spend time to give teachers that time so yes do we need to continue to guard what's on the planate wholeheartedly and that's conversations that we're having with how we that we stay as singularly focused as we can um to make sure we do that so who's making the standards and the curriculum for each individual especially at high school level you got shop teachers you got every different kind of group I don't know how you can what's the mde that sets the 5.11 standard that's the Department of Education you know and and I I like the idea of having a standard operation plan for all you know all English has one standard at nth grade 10th grade you know I think that should be across the board no matter what um so but when you're talking shop class I mean so that framework that we've created that framework and that's a process that all of our teams go through anytime new standards are rolled out so they will start in Phase One anytime new MBE gives us new standards they start at phase one and that department will come together and they will decide as a team what will be our priority standards now State requires that we teach all standards but they will decide as a team what's going to be our priority which means we will have to teach these in depth so those will be our common standards that will be the same across all classrooms and then the other standards will be the filler that we will address but to the same depth yeah not as much I just see C certain classes that it's going to be very hard to get the same teachers on the same page for math math you can have everybody teaching the same you know mathematics but when you get into different like economic class I would say Scott's what's an interesting about your statement is you're correct and it's also less hard than it was 20 years ago because the the work of plc's was really starting 2000 2004 2005 where were for our teachers especially and when I talk about indiv contractors and I'm married to a teacher so I love teachers right but it's that idea that I but that idea of what you're talking about has become less easier over the last 20 years because it's now starting to just become part of the school culture is that we're getting together and deciding we need to agree you and I and what's going to be the most important thing for a student to know about if they're coming into my CT class class and then you and I need to sit down and agree on how are we going to assess that and now you and I are going to agree on how we're going to actually rep it and for that type of work when I was trying to start up in 2001 2002 2003 that was a heavy LIF it's gotten easier now I I know some will say it's still hard and I would agree that it still can be with individual um teachers and all of us it can still be hard but it's become much easier I don't and I would throw it people because some of you have been around always a long I think my biggest question sorry is is access to grades like so right now at Pine meow Riverview and Old Bridge like I only see my child's grade when you give me a report card how do you do this work when you have full access to a grade book like I just feel like that that is that going to change is that going to look different when you actually do full implmentation because I feel like that you just can't have okay like I won't be seeing assignments per you you'll still be seeing assignments but they will be working towards and then they reg grouped okay um and so it may be towards this priority standard this priority standard um so it they'll still be there and you you'll still be able to see that my student hasn't done what they were supposed to do yesterday or um but it'll be it'll be grouped towards that um the question I had before we get tooo far away from it just kind of back to the million little things thing because it is million little things and I honestly from like the reading just a little bit of reading I've done it seems like there's about a million different ways to adopt a million little things and not it's not a one- siiz fits-all and what you use and what you don't use whatever it can change from District to District but we were talking about Behavior report on on uh Elementary level behavior is on the report card but separate from academic which Jonas my son same thing he's got the one side with behavioral grades or Point scales your one through four point scale and then the other side is academics altogether he gets a total score here from all of this you know um one doesn't affect the other but there is there the points are there for a reason you know here's the things that we need to work on behaviorally here's the things we need to work on academically can that transfer then to the secondary level to high school middle school where you are one through four grading you're still getting a score on behavior that can have an impact on your overall end of the semester end of the quarter grade it's not a zero but you're being graded on a one through four point scale on your behavior as well as your academics and at the end you have an end score that puts you at a percentage because it's all going to transfer over to a letter grade eventually and there has to be a rubric for doing that so could the behaviors still have impact on your overall score without a zero being the end result so that behavior would follow from K all the way to 12 every well just like how when I get Jonas's report card you know his behavior it show fluctuate it show a behavior pattern for each maybe maybe school they get to I mean I don't know would that be the younger in development their fluu this guy is scoring let start giving the resources to want to separate and make they're separated and in many ways we already are but part of this is making sure that commonly we are um I am not I might be misunderstanding your question but the idea of them bringing it back and and Shane's Behavior score and his math score combined into his GPA would not be the practice that I'm anticipating we would make sure that we would we would do our best to report my math score and that's where my GPA would come from and still report behaviors and how I'm doing and that's that work that that we're all doing together but it wouldn't be part of my GPA so how do you calculate a GPA in proficiency grading scoring you have to transfer the points over into a letter grade still I I would with that a little bit in the sense it's still that mil little things of how we adopt and choose to do this work we we aren't having any conversations about when we wa for a high grade at the high school teachers already use rubrics now when they evaluate assignments that are know 1 to four 1 to8 whatever you choose it to be we aren't having conversations that we need to move away and that s's now going to give us to the two at the high school that that's not the conversation that wear so it's it's Unique in that your question is good of what does this look like right now at the high school when you saw that report card nobody really knows what goes into that day not saying it's all do but there'd be no difference in saying nobody knows what went to do it now with the new pie but our goal is to provide all that information here's here's here's what this standard is this standard is so how you calculate the GPA is is no different it's still a mathematical calculation of the okay so the letters aren't going away so you're still going to have a b c d f I just want to make sure I'm following so to what Zach talked about there's there's all of these things a million little things and and a piece of the high school that we continue to talk about our instructional leadership team is that we will decide as a high school we will decide what this looks like what we're going to adopt as common and so in our discussion there has been no discussion about moving away from whatre we also we are absolutely keeping a letter grade because we're not there yet we're still working through those pieces I don't anticipate looking away letter grade and it won't be my leadership to do so but as staff continue to get better at this and we had a unique experience coming back from that built Institute where we came back we had a bu meeting the next week and they said let's do this we got to do this right now because they learned and they want to better and they okay so we're going to go on a week and we're going to tell everyone else who didn't hear this message that we got to do this right now they said okay let's work on doing this over you know so as we continue to make and learn more we're going to continue to make new and better decisions But to answer your question as best I can we've had no discussion away from it well the reason and I'm not trying to be hung up on the letters per se but one of the questions that I have that I had asked you in a meeting was extracurricular and sports participation for as long as I've ever participated in sports long time ago it feels like you maintained a c in order to be eligible to play so I guess in my mind when you hear moving away from traditional grading is moving away from ABCD F whatever to proficiency then how would you be able to reward people to participate in extracurriculars by succeeding in their academics because I do want to make sure our students are literate when they're going out and making academics still a priority over Athletics even though Athletics are important I think I hear what you're saying I I've never had that concern in the sense of right now the students back up not that I don't have a concern those to it's not literate that's not no right but the the number of students now that we talk to about having an academic penalty before they can perform in a great okay and so I that hasn't been there's we certainly want and have safe cards but that's such a small group that we haven't looked deeply at what the safe card would be but it will be the same as it is now well and I think there's been a lot of what I was seeing as feedback is just there are districts around the nation that moved away from letter grading at the high school level which I think that was short lived because the problem is you have a GPA that is uh relevant when you're applying to colleges and how does that transfer into the Collegiate level um if you don't have that Benchmark or that number that that they're basing your performance off of so I a lot of them I believe kind of went back to a a lot of them had a like a rubric of how their one through four points transferred over into that letter grade and it was uniform you know the teachers all operated on the same rubric of the you know how that transfers your a b or c but they went back to a letter grade because there's there's so many things that rely on that GPA still especially for high school moving forward so I I don't think I don't know if it's possible truly to move away from the letter grade it seemed like it was a short trial run maybe for a few schools and it just didn't it's it's cultural it's it's a norm it's what we're all used to but when you actually break it down I don't disagree with you but when you break it down the unique thing is that we're saying is we can't move the letter grade because that's what allows us to give you a z to four on a GPA and the schools that went to a one to four had to go back to letter grade so they can give you a zero to four really I mean and it's like a break it's like a breakdown it's like a breakdown of the zero to four into a one through four one through four uh rubric as well it's like another layer under there is the way that I look at it I guess but so the way that Elementary report cards are I love is that essentially how can high school be looked at the same way then I mean will they be will the report card look differently for high school if it's essentially going to have the same things behind the scenes that are attributing to the letter grade can it be provided in the same way to students and families as it is at the elementary level then with your standard laid out or your priority standards and your one through four points listed out on there that thus are attributing to whatever their letter grade is I'm bring Angel along six so I I would hope so I would hope I mean that's that's kind of the purpose right in in reporting this way who want to have more communication what that score actually means right um so again working with my leadership team as well in my building I would hope that yes there would still be a composite letter score but then under that all of those standardss and then parents can see I got a C but here's why right and behavior can still be a separate which will be included on there but a separate where here's you know your basically your point scale I don't know how that gets figured into a grade I mean that's I do struggle with that part that at the secondary level especially at your upper grade levels in high school you really are preparing for the real world and yes you do get second chances in the real world on things but there are also deadlines um and you know an employer isn't necessarily going to be I need this on my desk by Monday morning if you don't have it there there's not necessarily that forgiveness so there does need to be I feel there has to be a lesson just in accountability because that will be required of you anywhere you go from here on out you know so I don't know how that behavioral points would tie into their overall grade I mean we should be able to see it as families and parents we should be able to see where the points are but you know it's got a way in there somehow because if there's no accountability for them here in those especially in those upper levels are they going to be prepared for what's about to come to them when they get into the workforce I think what's interesting about that is that sometimes alluded to this it is that sometimes there's not even alignment down there across our our adults in our buildings so I'll look over at Scott Scott and I probably each had three basic training sergeant we have we went to basic training but those three people had pretty similar expectations of what was supposed to happen in the real world and sometimes in our school settings um our expectations of what should happen that we would hope would be aligned guaranteed um doesn't always match up and I think when I was at that bu meeting it was probably my first bu meet I attended in in this position what I saw exactly she said a huge excitement after going Shimmer's work and having to watch Shane so gracefully say we need to have our mindset and slowing this down and making sure we are are we we're moving together on this um because there are the million little pieces in which pieces we adopt are part of this and the reason why it was so important for me to bring all of these people here this evening is because you're part of those million pieces too and that we're all kind of moving together I worry about often times that people can just grab onto one piece of what's a fairly what can be a complex thing and then we lose the momentum of moving forward together all in the way that I'm understanding is it's a work in progress at this at the secondary level like there hasn't been a full implementation uniform plan put into place yet it's a kind of moving pieces around right now and and then eventually we've got to bring everybody on board February 1 yes and I left that out I was going to tell him thanks for bringing up we're bringing Shimmer back and we're bringing for for all of our middle and high school so that they can all hear the message and all schoolers we want you if you be there we'd love to have you there are you going to post that then so it's presidency yeah we just finalized the DAT this week um one thing I was like that like the conversation here is is amazing and great and I'm I'm smiling it was very similar when we worked with some staff because right away um when staff when we start talking about this there's a lot of questions and processing and it seems like almost in all the conversations we wanted to go to what's the report card look like and how we're reporting which is totally legit but we had to like take the staff back a little bit and say what about our practi that lead up to the report card so taking a look at learning for accuracy over time right taking a look at like that the zero activity that that Shane talked about take a looking at reassessments um again not saying a kid can reassess you know in in fifth grade language arts 50 times no not not at all that's not the real world right but giving them multiple opportunities to show like that's where we had to take staff and kind of go back and then came to the report card it was even hard for me too because I had the same question like w how's that going going to work how are we going to do that and you know and just at the elementary level started counting how manytimes but what about the report it's great to hear though because the same conversation was when we started the conversation with staff was these exact same questions and as a parent we see the report card we don't that's the only thing we do see however I'm the parent that says you're getting a d or an F why is it because you're not understanding is it because you just don't want to do the work is it because there's some disconnect I don't need to know I don't necessarily need to see the breakdown of how you got to that letter I can already say what is the problem so that's why I like the but I love Elementary report cards I think they're fantastic that's why we live in this world yeah I just I think that would be great at all levels just but Tricia's point to see them more potentially more in real time versus only twice a year like it's always that work y can I ask a few questions sorry I've been pretty quiet here just kind of seeing which of my questions get answered already but um so I've heard about the report cards what and somebody mentioned you know postsecondary opportunities what does a transcript look like under this system like if whether you're applying to college or post-secondary employment what information is going to those places and are they equipped to handle it and that that question that last question is more like our employers familiar enough with this system to be able to interpret what they're getting what I would say to that is I haven't seen any transcripts in this setting that's different because a transcript is that that end result which is right what was your grade in your credits um so so in the sense of how will a college it won't necessarily the information the college gets isn't necessarily going to be any more or any greater because the college was to their decision based on the standards in Geometry The the big difference will be for the students the parents the teachers to use that to be impactful so for for colleges for for employers I don't anticipate that the information will be different our goal will be that we're continually improving and always providing a better product in our graduates yeah so if it remains an a a letter scale the GPA nothing would be needed to to accompany the transcript right if at some point the team decides that they want to do something else we just provide a letter along with it and any so I've contacted all the colleges in Minnesota contacted colleges around just saying tell us tell me what you would do with a standards based report card would you accept that and College report it back yes so there was a slide about research and I know that was just partial but I was kind of using my eego eyes and one of the reports that was looked at talked about grade inflation how this sort of a system can address grade inflation is there a link or is that something that sure if You' send it to me I'd appreciate it can you sum it up before play spoiler before I read it I will be honest with you I did not read 177 right yep but I uh but are there General yeah all there I would speculate on no I didn't but I would speculate looking at it um it probably talks about like extra credit okay and is that again demonstration of learning or because you brought in five Clinic boxes because we were low you got 10 extra points on your m y okay it is the common for teaching a social study class where your your assessment was an essay you would be bringing back each of us samples that we think represent levels and sharing talking making sure we're I mean that's an interesting point about extra credit because it seems like the reassessment model would give you a better feedback on what they actually learned that needs to be learned instead of you said just gaining extra points whether it be for you know topically related questions at the end of a test or some other activi so yeah that's an interesting point um it and talking about reassessment I had a couple more questions about that the reassessment you said addresses that people have different rates of learning um I at times have had my kids come home and say oh we had a test today and you know half or two-thirds of the class failed it was such a rough one and whatever and I'm thinking to myself when I'm thinking about reassessment if there's 20 kids in a class and 12 or 13 of them do really poorly on a test and need to go down this reassessment route first of all I need to understand is this reassessment is this required if they don't perform to a certain degree or is this more optional for the students like oh I want to retake that test do we know that question so that's something we are working toward as a building okay um I would say right now the vast majority of my teachers are giving multiple options um for test I'm hopeful that all of our Educators in this District would look at scores where almost half of the class isn't doing well and realize either that was a faulty test yeah or I did not teach the way I thought I did and retach to everyone yeah to be clear that's not the norm this it's just something I've heard here and there um but yeah usually it's not a little more at the secondary level the experience I've had work with us in a previous District the the reassessment is is an encouragement and invitation from the teacher put a choice of the student unless they haven't shown enough learning to earn the credit then it's kind of you know but it can't happen without the teacher deciding that you're ready because you've shown me more learning it's not just I'm going to go back and try again I'm go back and try again I'm back try again it's okay now you've shown me that you learn more so let's so it's not immediate it's not like oh I get my test back and I see that I failed I wanted I want to retest right now no you need to show evidence that you have gained new knowledge you don't get to just keep guessing till you land on genius right so and I would hope to M that we're not just giving the kid back the same assessment the next time that we might say oh you're really U more opt to do better if you can just explain to me the beginning middle and end of a story you don't have to actually write it because the standard isn't about the written product it's about knowing and identifying beginning middle and end of the story so the first time around we might ask kids to write it and the second time around we would recognize their learning style or so that the second opportunity really is getting at the actual learning so the practice in itself creates higher quality assessment sure y um follow up to Shane's point then on it being ultimately the students option since we know there are other districts that have adopted this well before us um I mean is there any discussion or has there been any maybe studies or research on if there are certain categories of students that benefit more from this like are there certain categories of students more apt to say that's the route I want to go and some of them just throw their hands up and say I don't need to do it do we know if I mean it because there's so much talk Statewide about you know um assessment Gap or not assessment gaps achievement gaps and I just want to make sure that that's something that's not going to be um worsened by this sort of a system well I'd hate to assume but I would assume if you had a student that failed a test it would not be optional would it if they got a failing grade on a test do they have the option to take it or is it something that the teacher would then say nope we are retaking this test after learning but like would it really be optional at that point if it's a fail grade I would say it's going to go to the sum and total of what you what evidence the teacher has of learning if there's enough other evidence of learning that they can be credit that still on the if there's not enough evidence it's it's I mean it's still in student but it's just that they're not going to in the end walk across and get anything from you on the stage until they go do it so always and ultimately and it goes back to even your your try part of like get them out of bed you know it always ends up back there but certainly those are the students that we say hey come on over here I want to talk to you about this we're going to give your parents call and say Here's when you're going to come see me and here so we're going to provide that but it's it's still a student choice in that sense but that's sounds more like hands off it's a student Choice that's not what I need yeah Matt I guess that's kind of what I was getting at with the data not just that but just another data point that would be helpful to know is I mean as far far as I'm aware I know that this has been in place in many districts for a while but I don't know that there's been many reports that have come up showing that there's been a big decrease in the achievement Gap you know that that Gap is getting a lot smaller so that's more what I was I that's a good point of data too that I was kind of getting at is is there evidence showing that this is improving that achievement Gap that this is improving student scores and their knowledge as they're leaving like is that actually working um and I don't know I'm hopeful that when you when we're very intentional around this and when we're really doing it well that we will see that and that our students that we're going to be building a culture a a really strong culture around learning and that our students are going to be eager to make that happen Megan do you think we could preas some of these questions of Tom Shimmer so when he comes in February he can help address some of the data questions or maybe have some research or I think my last question I'm not even talking about like necessarily specific categories of kids I'm any category if there's any way to differentiate kids who maybe would take or maybe the right way to say it is who would benefit more from a system like this and leave others behind because you know there's even been talked lately about gender gaps in learning and that sort of thing so um yeah I don't I want to make sure I'm not pige andh hold in asking that question not pige and hoing it to certain categories of kids or anything but um my last questions had to do with communication and um there was another as I was Eagle eyeing the research um one of the Articles talked about how poor communication or understanding can harm this process and it was a the topic of the article was parents aversion to this style of assessment um knowing again that there are districts out there that have done this ahead of us do we have good examples of good communication and good ways of um getting parents to understand the system and where are they coming from I guess is my question we do and I've I've slowed this team down a little bit and saying this team needs to hear about the answer is kind of a yes and yes Matt um you know I think you've all come to understand worry getting us any time too far over our skis without the school board knowing what we're doing so I think we do I think we just wanted to make sure that you had a real good understanding of number one where we're at in the process and that we're we're moving forward in a way that's cautious but we're excited and we wanted to make sure our school board was part of that so our NE our next steps I would make sure that you're totally in fold on during one on during super inell so to go back to the reassessments and one of the thoughts I had was when we were talking about kids having to show that they learned before retaking something right but now we're compounding potentially so you have to as a child and one of actually goes back to one of the slides about grades causing Stress and Anxiety but now I'm going to retake a test that I didn't do so well on but I have to stay caught up in class show that I have learned but we as a district now took away our win time so when are students able to go get that additional help to learn prior to retaking and yet not miss time in class does that make so what what supports are we going to put in place now that we took some time where a student could go and work with a teacher more oneon-one on showing that hey I am learning I am progressing and have to retake this sure that sounds and maybe that's more like sounds like a middle school question Middle School sorry but so um yeah so when time is still alive it's just part of our regular core classes so what teachers have been asked to do is to teach for that first 40 to 50 minutes and then reserve the last 10 to 20 for what we would traditionally do in a l time so at that point we know which our students is struggling we'll just use subtraction as an example we know which kiddos need more support Sub in subtraction so instead of waiting until tomorrow to pull you into my win I'm going to help you at the end of this class right here in real time so if you have a classroom of 20 that are proficient in something 10 that have to retake and we all learn at different paces and now you have a teacher being having to try to individualize 10 different students that are not proficient is that realistic in 10 to 10 minutes of class like remaining of class or yeah some students are going to need more right um so some students might need to come to our Breakfast Club study launch that happens so might need to be pulled in to see the teacher um you know at at a different time that's so going to happen um it kind of goes back to what our Elementary classrooms are so so excellent at and that's some station work you know if I can pull um five students that have maybe that same deficit bring them to me you know that in that small kidney table at the back of the room for most of our students a couple of minutes and they got it right they just need a little bit more um it is a challenge I absolutely because we do have to differentiate and meet a variety of needs um but that's what that last designated time is for um some days it might need more than 20 minutes and that's up to the teacher's discretion there may be a time maybe we're getting to Mid quarter or the end of the quarter and boy there's just a lot of missing assignments so rather than move forward by curriculum we're going to take a day and get caught up and then are we sorry cuz you said Breakfast Club so are we communicating with parents that that is an option and not just for those who are not meing proficiency so if a student says I'm really struggling but a parent like well I don't know going talk to your teacher during class maybe it somebody else would say oh there's a breakfast club so why don't you go I absolutely send another communication I have it for a while so that's a great suggestion yeah um in Breakfast Club we know either right that's for our students that have transportation they're not reling on buses um but it's one more opportunity said Middle School and High School answer that P spe so two years ago last year we had sa time the high school so Tuesdays and Fridays there's a 30 minute block of time that it's the high school and then the block schedule gives us a lot of opportunity there there's no direct construction that all time ex so there there's potentially some opportunities there but then again before school after school as well we do have that built in two days a week at least so and then we we built in some things at the end of the semester to build in additional time as well so and Tom shared I'm sorry mik I'll back up when we done wow shim had me by about 14 years that's okay some I'll give you the my office [Music] after just shared that history piece and it's a different thing that came to the point of like if a student doesn't and and it's it's always been their responsibility for the teacher to get in there and differentiate and so this this part that part's not new necess so that was not nearly worth that it was genius but you did get the whole room to laugh unify us all but now they know how they get the room keep using it Darth Vader them s all other questions for just uh just one real last question for from me um our teachers are the backbone obviously and we got to do what we can to support them you guys ultimately make the decision formulate the plan and make it into action are you guys utilizing those trench Warriors there and finding out what they would like to see if we're starting to look at these kind of PL is I know you're focused in on what you got to do and P 90 different directions but taking maybe survey or some kind of get some input from the teachers uh I know I did that in the military with soldiers even though I was in charge of them still would want some input doesn't mean that they get to dictate what happens but getting different outside ideas put together that will help for that Core Group I I think that would be very helpful I don't know about you guys but you have a survey or have anonomous certain that would be key especially as we work with our so I'll end with this because the guys have heard me say it as we move forward if it isn't student focused if it doesn't have parent involvement it's not transparent and it doesn't increase accountability challeng I no want to know things are student Focus that we're bringing our parents in that we're transparent and we're increasing accountability and this work does matter so I want to make sure as we move through this that we're always stressing that that's one of the reasons in the focus we're always thinking about kids but it also it's what we're also been working on within our community to piggyback on that so if we were to get questioned by community members who do you want us to direct them to is it building leadership or would it be you when it comes to proficiency grading because I've already been asked about it and it's like I say in a DAT Shane says he made that comment sh only sh element everything goes say then he has to report in the office every day I think it would be my preference that they are talking to our building leaders because our building leaders also know that if things don't feel like they're able to answer then they okay I just want to make sure that we're directing to the abely the goal would be though I'm assumption here but the goal would be that that communication to families and everything has went out on the front side and not that all questions are going to be answered but that some of them may have been answered already before right but people are watching yeah you can you get questions Tomorrow based off of this so I would rather not try to explain everything that was just said CU it's not my line of expertise I'd rather call sh school but I think some people don't maybe recognize that proficiency based gring or how we're feedback about elementary students it's what we've been doing and we just come to accept it and love it I love that I we can just align for me thank you for spending thanks for all the work and the work to come [Laughter] good run nice knowing you Trisha do you want to go back to this since Jason um yes so we pass this out there is a couple um like Pine Meadow and riverv view need to be fixed but are you comfortable siding I am more than comfortable perfect so we will have those edits and then we will all sign a copy before we leave today okay um then we'll move on to the superintendent's midyear feedback which I believe Mike has some copies Scott no only only Shane can make tonight only one Mike doesn't think that's funny I'm sorry I didn't hear it that oneop okay so on the first page you'll see that we have four um when Mike and I met for our uh meeting after looking at everybody's um well almost everybody's um performance review sheets um these were the four that came to the top um but Mike and I had a hard time figure out which three should be the top three so I thought we would ask and bring back to the board well was there were these all equal squares all four um did we have not exactly I think what came out of it Emily was there was there were some pieces especially when you looked at communication and community relations where he had some evenness and then it was trying to figure out which one kind of encapsulated at all so that was brought into the play um I think there was from a superintendent standpoint I know as it relates to human resources in our evaluation models um there's just a there's an assessment by me that I think that that needs to be worked on because I don't know if we've had a consistent evaluation template and things that we utilize over the years um that I would like to see as put in place that would be consistent so that one r a little bit more to the top because of your superintendent um the other ones uh the top uh the governance team and the school district finances yes those were both high on the list for all board members um it's the bottom two I think that we we're trying to figure out excuse me the the school board School District Finance 2D and 5G were the ones that became well which one would we recommend to the full board and then Trish and I looked at it and said let's just bring it to the full um and have a conversation can but for for 1 e and 3C yes those would be your highest one within those areas can I make a observation that when I was filling out my rankings or whatever whatever you want to call it um there were some categories where I landed on one basically by process of elimination like some of some of the things on the list just weren't that applicable to us at this current point in time I looking at at this I think the finances one ended up being like that maybe it scored high on all of ours but I I didn't see that as like overall the most important thing that we'd evaluate you on so my suggestion would be that that one would be exed out but I don't know maybe somebody else has I think we all kind of agreed on I thought we kind of talked about that on the night with Barb and we all kind of agreed that it's hard to evaluate Mike on that element because he's not necessarily the one that's in direct control over some of these things and he's also not in control whether a bond or Levy passes yes there are elements which he needs to help on and be skilled with whatever but I just think I I feel like we talked about it and said that might not be one of the top things that we would be wanting to evaluate on maybe I'm remembering wrong I I was not there but I would agree with pulling that if pulling one out of the four SC you good with that okay the next few pages what provided to us ASU work itself out so what you do see on that second page of the stold copies is you would do the crossing out standard two and I would rework this and provide to the board chair um you see the timeline in the lower area I think my recollection is this was the timeline that we would be thinking but I obviously we want to am that next count and having having feedback for me at that time moves on to the next page I put down first I also recognized that it was the board's CL we're getting we're getting into this in November of what the actual standards that you want us feedback on so I did lengthen that out a little bit F but I do recognize that it's definitely a figure for say m we're also going to give feedback on standard one three and five prior to November 18 you know whenever take a vote on this the last page is the summit and think from what I saw from welcome it would be going through and looking at those indicators and saying what the reflection as a sum June be quiet I mean I think that the timeline looks great I think that makes sense considering um but it's November 7th um so just a question because five of us will be sitting here that are the same that have been working with you since July so how does that work with a mid evaluation with a new board member coming on board and being able to evaluate you is it only five people that are evaluating you for that first one and the sixth person observing or how would that traditionally work because we have a new person coming in that doesn't [Music] necessarily there were a few rights I didn't see that wondering but how you got one but how does that work with I would say I'm sorry I would say I again I won't be on the board but I would assume it would be the F of you I don't chel going to a hand a good handle you know two months into it right now that she I mean in theory in a legal sense she's the sixth member of the board participating in the evaluation but from a procedural sense she really should just at that point be an observer to the process probably because the knowledge of the performance isn't going to be there hasn't long enough that's how I'm doing it I mean we could r her for certain things over others like you know orientation to the systems I'm sure by that time she will have met with Mike at least once or twice we get some feedback on how that's going but yeah I mean I think just from a common sense standpoint expect her to be giving much substantive feedback and mons well I guess I just am trying to figure out how what is our expectation as the five of us going in on this midterm with a new board number not ex I don't want to get to that point and then not have something some sort of groundw work kind of even for her like what is the what can she expect from us as far as participating on this or what does she even have a copy of of this I don't I don't know well that's what I mean it's she she wasn't here for the meeting with Barb but these elements and standards standards and elements probably don't have the full understanding that we do so I think that depending on how we want to approach it the expectation would be that she's kind of observing the process for the first part for the midyear evaluation and then would participate after having more knowledge of it in June would actually be a either way she's a six board member so she's participating no matter what but what her expectation should be coming in probably just to observe read the standards and elements that were you know evaluating on and get to be familiar with those and use those in the June year end review then I guess again not being on the board at that time I would just have a conversation with her I don't think I don't think she would be comfortable evaluate I mean how what she going to evaluate she's going to have two months but she should be she should she'll be with us absolutely absolutely part of the process just not the expectation from her to speak up and be like well here's my you know put on this and I don't think she would even want that right I mean how would you evaluate you don't have you don't have enough to base anything on no Baseline yeah and I and just because you've been on the board the longest have you ever had that situation where you do have somebody who's there observing giving slight participation or orientation purposes to years ago session yeah session yeah have to before that and then making sure that these are things that we are going over with her as part of the orientation because yep yep yeah I was looking at these standards I mean of the three we picked if you're one month into it you can only maybe on the first one give some real substance of input answer Schoolboard questions thoroughly it's one of the things she'll she'll have a lot of questions at so but yeah I think Jason up right I think she's part of the process but having discuss well and also just knowing that she can participate in whatever capacity she feels the most comfortable like if she feels comfortable chiming in and she feels that she can speak to Mike's performance then she can do so and if she doesn't she can just be a Observer just knowing that she's okay doing either option for sure as long as all of us have that expectation and then we're all agreeing on the score correct yep okay is there any other questions about the superintendent M your fear back we still have um the districtwide survey a strategic Plan update comprehensive achievement and Civic Readiness we'll come and do a presentation Schoolboard self evaluation um and then we have marketing for referendum is there any other topics that we need to add the one I mentioned last time about potential collaboration with city and county leader yes you know what I feel like I said that I'll make sure it's are these in order no no because I would assume marketing for referendum five five should probably be based on where we're at from a Time perspective can we talk about that referendum because that is like February is not that far away so it's a future topic but at what point are we is the future topic actually going to come to the have we gotten our feedback from mde have we gotten our approval back on the review and comment it'll come back probably right around T we don't expect any problems that is Jo said any problems that we have we can make direct to it and not have to bring it back to the bo so they usually minor problems sure so then we can expect then that number five will be on our December's work session unless the board has an appetite to do I do think February is knocking on the door not it's not that far away that's that's we're almost said a sooner the better we have a facilities meeting right remind me the date of that I don't have my computer running oh down yeah those aren't commit those are just and Mike I feel like it's doing it at the regular board meeting would I would say would Hing more on CU I know you and I talked a little bit about it in our one-on-one but you know do you have enough inform information do you feel like to where we could look at options and you know talk about that at the meeting on the 18th or do you need more time to gather I think I would love to be able to present where we're at okay I think the idea of having feedback from this team especially um so there are meetings scheduled I've already met with a number of people including our own Administration um I have meetings on the books right now with booster clubs and with sartel chamber um and with the sartel senior connection the thing the wheels are already moving um and and some of the marketing pieces are already moving I think bringing what we do have um if I feel that it's too preliminary or that I might spark something that's not going to be helpful um for your review then I would say I'll I'll ask board chair to say we move this until December barring that no I would love to bring it I think if you guys are comfortable with it I think the earlier the better for this that was my and we should probably review I me it's a pretty simple thing I don't think that any of us have any confusion about it but just review what we are able to do and say within the public as board members and our role in this which is very limited we cannot be we cannot do and say a whole lot so for this team's knowledge next Thursday I do plan on working on talking points that would be provided for all board members um bullet points for both question number one and question number two that said you do have some common language what community members may ask questions plan for next yeah so has has there been any kind of communication from the district regarding the fact that there is I mean outside of the meetings that we have that are recorded and whatnot but one thing I've heard recently is that there's confusion on the stadium in particular and how it's being voted on as far as it being the board table versus a referendum say that last so there's some people that have asked me is the is the board just not voting to approve the stadium but I don't think there's enough knowledge out in the general public that that's not how that works as far as the stadium goes so are we communicating that there is a referendum coming we are looking at it being February that referendum is for the community to vote it does not come to the board table for the vote well I think that's where the in my mind the whole marketing part is you know when I've looked at other districts that have done it they have a pretty robust section on their web page with real interactive you know pretty displays of what these what this referendum is for and if there's any you know blueprints or what not things that can be shown off in that process that's all underneath that portion on the website and then is pushed out to the community as well so that there's I guess that's the marketing plan I'm kind of talking about here when we're talking about doing that is how are we getting that information effectively to the public so that they do understand that it's not a vote at the board table that this is a referendum and here's how the referendum is going to work these questions are tied together in this way um no the stadium canot pass on its own all of that so I think that's kind of what I want to get accomplished is how are we marketing the true information about this to the commun and and I would say a regular go ahead well this question reminds me of the mailer we all got about how to fund the new judicial Center and get the card in the mail and it's not advocating for one thing over the other it's just saying if you vote Yes this is what happens if you vote no this is what happens is that part of our process okay so we'll at least be reaching people's mailboxes and I have prices on all those things already yeah because we're clearly J Point yeah I know but to Jen's Point clearly we need to go beyond just notifying our district families you know the ones with kids in school because that's not our voting block go a lot wider than that so and I think there was an effort and I can maybe just say it was on my part there was an effort on my part to not have this get too intermixed with the general election that was going on I thought that was fair to the voters our community everyone else knew that we had steps moving um but this was an interesting last week and do and an interesting last two to three months I thought intermixing the two and I think I said mentioned that to all of you I I wanted to be careful about that so the work going on in the background um will never be fast enough I want to get going even faster um and which is why I think having that discussion with you earlier and probably again in December and probably again in January either at a work session or a regular board meeting to keep not only you up to date but to get your feedback especially from what you're hearing in the community to make sure we're addressing questions can I piggy back on one of Jen's comments I think that was a great point that we can't be basic enough in the information that we're sharing like if the question is is this approved at the vote or is it approved at the board table you can't be basic enough because the conversations I'm over Hearing in the community about that judicial Center and how it was funded people thought the people thought the question was should we build a Judicial Center having no understanding that that decision is made already it's happening 100% the question is only how are we funding funding it so yeah it that just it was a nice reminder two months or three months before we have to do a similar thing to really be basic in the information that we're spreading to that point I I actually don't know how much of the community truly knows that we're going to a referendum in February I know that we've said it at meetings but I get asked all the time about what's happening with it and there is really I I would say it's probably pretty widespread that most people do not know that that is the plan so yeah that that alone I think is the first basic point of information is hey this is happening and then everything on top of that but to be fair I mean we did just vote on that totally last month but because we're in the crunch time it just feels like well let's at least get that out that part and just making sure that they know that it is on the community for both of those questions it's not the board is choosing yes or no to number two the St that was that was one thing that any that particular part was what was brought up so and that conversation so outside of Riverview HVAC and Stadium stuff is there any other topics that we need to put on on the list I did write down review for dues and don'ts for referendums and potential collaboration city which I apologize I I want to see that we Ted about that it was on there and then it was gone somebody took it off on purpose no I didn't we didn't take it off on purpose because I had the conversation it's not a rush there's turnover so let's get through the next couple months otherwise I will we have four people that are coming tomorrow right at least I will be here I'll be here I'll be here y okay sweet and then we have how long is that minutes minutes it literally is and both of us will be here to you don't have to we just need a COR it literally is i' got a a recruit we have we have five we only need four I don't think we've ever had the full board to be honest with you it was just a cck uh then we have another meeting on the 18th and of dece of November sorry getting ahead of myself at 6:30 here we have a future board work session the 5th and then uh 16th we'll have the truth of Taxation before that correct at 6 mhm okay and then yeah um should be but it's not listed at the high school facili question Thursday the 14th at 9:00 okay and Mike the December 16th should beol I have that as finance and Personnel yeah I'm sorry I'm looking at theong person I did WR okay that's you SC I say you don't want maybe we don't have it maybe that's the one I was thinking about I'll Circle back team tomorrow okay thanks you have our number okay otherwise 838 perfect is there did you say we yeah do you have a copy of that Pine Ridge Chang Riverside those exist in our school district was there any other that was the only things I saw actually Matt I'm sorry because I was are we each signing one or we're just I think we're just going to sign one you can go first if you have to get um