##VIDEO ID:9ec5QrFh7u4## Jason October 178 did you just say Yeah 178 and it's Thursday Friday right she said it's Friday and Monday she doesn't have work she's just extra lucky she gets same mention something I thought you said maybe she was in a different state I'm like but I don't know they call that Nea then but something similar yeah something similar St bub that b stocking bubbler like a year ago you me anybody oh just I see them everywhere now my kids are hooked on they're so good yeah my better than most of the other en yeah I do remember that okay so it is now 6:32 and I will call our work session to order and we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands one na God indivisible with liy and justice for all I will look for a motion to approve the agenda a motion second okay first by Jen second by Emily any discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I those poos say nay M She carries we are going to then move right into our superintendent evaluation and we hand hand over to bar from MSP thank you very much um it's nice to see all of you again thanks for having me back can't believe it's already October that it is and so it's time for the transition Workshop um that is part of the search package so no charge at all for the workshop tonight we just want to make sure that we have a conversation around expectations for the first year so um couple of things I'll do is first of all go through this power with myself um to run it for me thank you very much I'm going to cover some of the basics and some of it will look familiar uh some of it's based on msba governance models and things like that but it also gets into the superintendent evaluation process so throughout this i' really appreciate it if we keep it as informal as possible and you can just ask me questions interrupt me ask to clarify I want to make sure you're comfortable with the basics before we get into conversations about specifics and the specifics will be um a brief conversation around goals because this is a goals and standards based option for you to use every board does reviews uh the way that fits them so this is one process that we developed with Masa so the Schoolboard Association and the administrators Association agreed on this process as being fair objective and efficient however you will do what fits and so it's up to the board team to decide how you're going to evaluate Mike's performance in his first year as your superintendent so remind me again prior to Mike starting did you do performance ation of your superintendent the three of us did know it's been a while we had an inter we obviously didn't do one in the last year our last regular superintend so okay I think okay so you're open to some ideas perhaps okay so you'll take whatever I might suggest I will talk about goals real briefly and what those can look like and the pros and the cons to goals and then I want to spend some time on standards and elements which are a big part of this book the booklet that I just handed out to you because standard and stand and elements have become the most common way for people to evaluate the superintendent's performance and I think it might make sense as the work session on boths tonight um but it has become at least for the first year of superintendent tenure in a district a little more clear because goals can be open to interpretation and Squishy and what one word means to someone doesn't mean to someone else so we can talk a little bit about that but I'm going to close with standard and elements and have you take a very short quiz that will help maybe give some direction to the board um but that's about it those are the three big things PowerPoint goals standards and elements good okay so um with this the very first thing I do want to point out is that we say first year goals and expectations oops go back thank you thank you first year goals and expectations because this is the transition Workshop uh we do a very very similar workshop for districts who have a superintendent that is not in their first year so it's very similar there's just a couple of things we do differently when it is someone's first year in the district at the home so this is the first year the other thing I want to point out is it said school board and superintendent we're going to talk a lot today about the board team that all of you work together to move the district forward all of you work together for student achievement so it is not the school board deciding on goals standards and elements it's not the superintendent deciding on that it is all of you together because you are a team and Mike is on the board he's a non-voting member of the board but he is an exac oner School Board so there are seven you seven of you on the board six of you elected six of you representing the folks who elected you six of you who vote um there seven people on the board so we're going to talk a lot about the teamwork between both of you throughout the process next slide please okay so these are the cornerstones standards for school board leadership you'll recognize these if you've been through some of the phase trainings with msba uh but what I want to point out is that within those cornerstones there's five standards that you as board members um adhere to as far as the work that you do I'm not going to go through all of them other than to say within two of those standards there are some benchmarks that talk about evaluation so first of all under your conducts and ethics Cornerstone it does talk about respecting and advocating mutual understanding of the roles and responsibilities of board members and superintendent so that's a part of conduct and ethics when it comes to understanding the role of the board and the superintendent and then also within accountability um it does include a benchmark about evaluating the superintendent on clear and focused expectations now I'll share with you it's not required there is no State Statute that requires you to evaluate the superintendent there are statutes around evaluating principles and it's prescribed by Statute as to how you evaluate folks in those positions but there isn't anything in there about superintendence that's not to say it's not in your contract and I don't know if it is or is not it is it's in our model contract because both Masa and msba feels important that you talk about those expectations but it's not required other than it's in a contract and it's more and more common that in a contract because I think I think superintendants are hungry for feedback from the board about where are we going what's the priorities how can I be better at my job and so I think there's people now that are seeing the value of them evaluations are no longer the gotcha of the old days it's kind of gotcha you're not good at that you better get better at that so it's kind of those um mixed messages where performance evaluations maybe 10 years ago felt like an opportunity to catch them doing something not very well and to focus on the weaknesses and it's completely changed every industry now I think sees them as very constructive conversations um areas to improve absolutely and what's going well so that conversation is really important so that's your standards the five of you that are here today for board members but the next slide will show you the Cornerstone for the superintendents on the right side so those are the eight standards that superintendents must demonstrate competency in before they're even given a license so those are eight big areas that they receive a lot of training on uh before they are allowed to take the test and become certified as a superintendent and get their license I'm not going to go through all of those but those are we're going to talk about those later when we talk standards and elements but if you just look at these two lists I'm curious um do any of you see a difference between the lists as far as the kind of topics or areas and standards are being expected for from boards versus different tendence well I mean the superintendent of the operations the operations exactly exactly Emily's right so the the superintendent on the right side those are very operational those are sort of CEO responsibilities that is running the district and on the other side the school board is the governing Authority that sets direction that uh approves policy approves budgets all those kinds of things someone once said to me that um School Board sort of lays the track if you're talking about trains this is the where the tracks going to go and then superintendent's job is to drive the train and to make sure that they get where the school board wants them to go so that analogy if you're into trains is one that you could use for this as well so this slide moves really easily into the next slide which is theard governance model uh this I know you've seen again it's part of the phase trainings um every time you go but when you look at the board governance model without question the heartbeat is student achievement for all that is the same whether it's the school board who's governing or the superintendent who's managing that student achievement is why you do what you do every decision you make drives towards student achievement for each and every single student in your school district so that's real important that that's in Center if you look at responsibilities that line across the middle is what we call the fence generally speaking on the top is the school board's job and on the bottom is the superintendent's job so we'll just start we'll go counter clockwise I guess the school board will establish some things you'll establish the expectations for the district um you'll establish the Strategic plan you'll establish parameters around policies things like that and then you adopt things without question you are responsible for adopting that budget now it's coming recommended from a lot of work by the Admin team but you will adopt that budget policies becoming more and more important all the time you adopt contracts that has to come to the school board for approval then though once you've done that you hand the Baton really over that fence to the superintendent and then their job is to develop the things that you've approved they develop the plans they've developed the staff they develop procedures to implement the policies that you've set so that's the driving the training card of development they know what you want their jobs to make it happen and then they also Implement all of those things and they don't always go according to plan because really when you thinking big picture ideas it's kind of like Theory versus reality that's why when you need you need to monitor those things you've implemented them and then the superintendent is monitoring all the policies they're monitoring staff plans procedures and so on so forth they're going to discover things that aren't working quite the way we'd hoped they were so they'll come back to you with a recommendation and hand it over the fence to the board board to evaluate that so you will evaluate things like my glasses on I see superintendent the second one oh the board do you ever do a Schoolboard self evaluation you guys done one of those yet we're talking about we've been talking about it we're going to push it until after the election just because of okay makeup of the board will be different awesome um the we technically took it we're we took good okay so you might want to take it again if there's new board that was the we know have at least one new member great okay so take it for free and then if you want to take a deeper dive into it we can come up and do a workshop like this about the Deep dive so good board self evaluation is awesome I'm glad it's on your plate um but then the superintendent and the outcomes so this these evaluation of superintendent is your job and only your job this is the only employee that you have so the board's job is to evaluate the superintendent I'm going to acknowledge though sort of the awkwardness of that because I don't think anyone on the school board has ever served as a superintendent before right okay I know of two in the state that were superintendents and are now on the board so it's sometimes complicated to evaluate someone whose job you've never held before and you not in the building every single day so the inherent awkwardness is something we're going to talk about how to ensure that you're being fair and objective and accurate when you don't know what Mike's job is day in and day out that's one of those difficulties but it's your job so we're going to have a conversation about that and then the outcomes that's where if things are not working the way you thought and perhaps he's recommending some things to the board you could vote to reestablish them and take another crack at the policies um or another crack at the Strategic plan if it isn't developing the way you'd vote so that clockwise movement is meant to build upon one another and strengthen without the superintendent getting up in your business and trying to create the vision themselves that's what you've been elected to do set direction also without the board jumping over the fence and micromanaging the superintendent that's what you've hired him to do and there are people who find it easier to think of it as a private sector business with a CEO and a board of directors you know the board of directors don't walk around the store trying to tell store managers what to do that's the president's job or the CEO's job the board is much more big picture so any questions on this board governance model it makes sense I know you've seen it before it's repetitive um it does lead to the strongest possible outcomes for your kids though if you are able to operate within this context good questions okay thank you um next slide please uh though okay goals all right um on this chart the most important thing is to look for vertical alignment so student achievement for all again number one that's at the top that's what you're working toward the Strategic plan in red is generally three to five goals maybe 3 to 5 years out and that's why there's that umbrella because that strategic plan it's goal driven but it's longterm 3 to 5 years then you have superintendent goals and Schoolboard team goals if you want these are not required but superintendent goals and Schoolboard goals should be one year at a time so that's one of the things we want to talk about tonight is to kind of rain in any big Vision about what Mike's going to accomplish in his time here to what can he accomplish in one year just look out that far don't look that far because especially the first year there's so much learning going on when someone's not been in the district before that you don't want to overwhelm them by giving them goals that are going to take 3 to five years to accomplish that's just very unfair so we're going to pull them back and maybe two or three goals a year um they don't need to be the big grandio goals that's your strategic plan they should be progress toward the things that the uh strategic plan is telling you to do and strategic plans need to be updated obviously because things change a lot has changed in education just in the last three or four years so they should be as current as possible um and a lot of superintendant have a major role in helping the board develop a strategic plan but ultimately you'll adopt it so we we're really focusing on that green box tonight uh the blue box it's up to the board if you want to set parallel goals and I'll give you just one example of that um this is where the teamwork is so important because I know that every single board member who's elected wants your superintendent to be successful and I know you want to be successful right so we want to encourage you to think about how could the board support the superintendent in achieving whatever you've asked him to do this first year so the easiest example to talk about referendums do you have a referendum coming up in November febrary February okay okay so we'll just use that as an example some board members really want to set a goal for the superintendent to pass the referendum and that just gives me chills because is that within his control to pass the referendum no who passes your referendum period right so that goal is patent unfair now you could create a goal that says create talking points and arrange Community conversations and get information accurate information up to the community prior to the vote so you could create lots of stuff around that kind of informational campaign so if that's what you want that's a reasonable goal and it's short it's within this first year the board could set a parallel goal that says we as a board have a goal to memorize the talking points we as a board will make ourselves available to go to coffee and conversations or to go to the liance club or to go to Rotary and speak on behalf of the board so you could set goals that help ensure he's successful and I think sometimes boards really like that cuz then it it reinforces this partnership you're working toward the same thing it's not all on your shoulders it's also not all on the board shoulders so the parallel goals we're not going to talk about developing those tonight but if we come up with some things for Mike whether it's standards and elements or goals if you want to you could think about what can we do as six people to make sure he's successful between now and the end of June next year so enough about that um the yellow box you could go goal crazy classroom student buildings all that kind of thing lots and lots of goals again though vertical alignment is the number one goal of this whole slide you don't want to be going in different directions with these goals because it's just there's too much it's too big right any questions on the goal stuff here it's Common Sense too right it really is it's just good to say it out loud so you all know is it the whole rad the boat thing is that the goer thing with rad the boat in the same direction and yeah right it's a lot easier when you're all going the same direction and pull in the same strength that's what we want okay so dos and don'ts are the next slide so now I'm going to talk specifically about performance evaluations I'm not going to talk about don'ts because they're the flip side of all these dues um we would encourage you to develop process and agree upon it so that you all know how the evaluation will occur are you going to use well goals or elements are you going to use a five point scale or four stars or yes no maybe I mean what you know smiley faces frowny faces what are you going to use and specifically what are you using as those eval evaluation things that you want to measure and that's what we're going to do here um you have to collaborate again there's a total of seven on your board so please work together to make sure that you all are heard all your voices are represented in the process now you do have you said at least one new board member Jason's not right Jason's not right okay um so the new board with one new board member or however many boards have inherits the decisions this board makes in the next few weeks um there's too much in January or February going on for new board members to have a say over what goals are going to be talked about in June or July so they'll inherit your work and I think that actually is for the best because um the institutional knowledge that you all have as board members truly will ensure that it's the right set of goals and standards he'll be working toward versus someone coming on that has ideas of what there you know what they want from him but they're brand new board members and there's a lot to learn um so please do collaborate but keeping mind the new board inherits they don't get to start over from scratch in January that's just too much work uh agreed upon ratings written feedback is important because this is Personnel data it does not have to be detailed doesn't have to be you know generally we say a midyear evaluation and a year end the midyear one can be very informal you don't need all kinds of documentation and stuff like that but we do encourage you to have um written feedback to go into personnel file once a year and that's for the board's protection in case you choose not to offer another contract and it's also for the superintendent's protection in case they want another contract they can say here I've had glowing reviews what do you mean you're not going to give me another one you still have the right not to give one but it's documentation of performance um but the one final combined summary is important because Mike doesn't work for six people Mike works for one body and I can't imagine having six different bosses that all want something different from me that's impossible then nobody's happy so the one final combined summary is the best way to do this now it doesn't mean you have to agree it's kind of like um search process you all had very different life experiences you different viewpoints different things you were looking for ultimately you are one voice because the board makes the decision whether it's unanimous or not there's a board decision and Mike works for the board doesn't work for man and Emily and you know it's just different so the one final combined summary um is real important because at least you all have come to an agreement of some sort about what that summary says and then the board chair is required to provide an a summary of that at the next open meeting after your evaluation and that's that's required by law and we'll talk a little bit about that but there needs to be something shared at the next open meeting about what happened should be pretty high level because you're probably in a Clos session for the evaluation it shouldn't be detailed uh but the public should be able to understand reasonably well what happened how well did it go so that uh that's required by law to do that the next session and please allow time to discuss results because um this is one of those things that's very easy to kick down the road you know as the can because you have so much else going on and so finding the time to talk about this when it's not required you know other than the contract we want you to set aside at least two hours for a midyear conversation and at least two hours for the year end conversation four hours of conversation as a full board about expectations um some districts do more than that they have quarterly check-ins on progress toward the goals set by the board and the superintendent other boards do it once a year um we have some boards call us careful okay we have some boards call us and say you know what things are not going well we're not we're not offering another contract just wanted to give you a heads up we're going to do a search I guarantee you anybody msba our first question is going to be have you been doing performance evaluations most of the time when they're unhappy it's because they have not been doing performance evaluations because it means they're not talking to each other all they're doing is behind the superintendent's back talking whether you're happy or not happy but as a group there's been very little conversation and so that puts you at a disadvantage because there's nothing in the personnel file that says one way or the other um there's been no communication superintendent cannot read your mind I think they require mind reading don't they in school it's two classes two classes on mind reading um and he got a crystal ball he got a cryst ball I appreciate you given me that I did did you actually give him one oh my God think that would be pretty fun to I see one my desk wouldn't doubt it wouldn't doubt it um I got one that work do you for real stop my leg cuz I could I'm not saying that it works I'm just thinking a prank crystal ball would be kind of funny mag mag let's say for Scott's occupation a crystal ball would be yes it would would solve a lot of problems would it oh gosh all right thanks Scott well try to talk about you're get for christmasen is I love that idea that's wonderful um however take the time because it's very very much worth it even though I know you're going to have referendums and budget and contracts and strategic planning and you have so many things to do you can do them though in less time than you might think and I say this kind of conversation take some time to sit down and talk about it okay just really really important one thing that's not on here that I always mention though at this point um we would encourage you not to use 360 Dee reviews we get asked about that fairly often and this goes back to the awkwardness of evaluating a position that you just don't see much of right we encourage you not to do that for a couple of reasons um one it's your job school board's job to evaluate mik so um you don't want to give away your power to other people to evaluate him because this is your only employee so own it right that doesn't mean that you understand everything that he does and so it's a little unfair to say he's doing your poor job when you've not been able to see it so some boards want to ask administrators or the staff or parents to evaluate them first and give you feedback what happens in that case though is the responses you get are from the people on the ends that love the work he's doing and hate the work he's doing and I guarantee you as a leader there's going to be people who hate what you're doing because decisions are tough and I think we talked about that nobody's perfect and when you check references sometimes people are upset with the person you're talking about because they've had to implement some decisions and make hard decisions so when you get people responding to a survey especially if it's Anonymous you get all kinds of stuff that's not helpful to you as a board it's just people venting right not useful it can also create a bias for you that's not necessarily deserved it's just people who maybe rally the troops against or rally the troops for so it's not a clear picture um so we don't want to put Mike in a position where that's happening do that really really seems to be unfair um so the information is not that necessarily great however two times it can be really really helpful uh one is if you choose to do a survey of culture and climate in the district and you ask your staff or administrators or parents what's the climate in your building What's the culture of the district how are you feeling about you know your kids experience here ultimately that falls on the shoulders of the superintendent leadership skills what kind of culture have they created as the tip of the iceberg right or tip of the paramid they're in charge so culture and climate falls under their purview not necessarily in the first 3 months because it takes a long time to kind of turn a shift toward the culture you want that will give you some insights and I've seen boards do that really successfully the other time it's helpful is when the superintendent themselves want to do it from a professional development standpoint they ask people who work for them how am I doing where can I improve um you can make it Anonymous or not Anonymous that's completely their choice and they're using it to become a better reader so if that's something that interest might to do that's great but that shouldn't be something that he has to share with you as a board right so those two times I think 360 Dee feedback can be really really useful um I'm not telling you you can't do it as part of his evaluation I'm just telling you it's kind of a quagmire and you get sucked into you quick understand that's not helpful any questions on 360s we always get asked they were very popular 5 10 years ago when I was running a nonprofit I got 360 every year my board always wanted to ask my staff about Barb's leadership and they made it a nous um it was very popular but now it's becoming less and less common because of the pitfalls okay more we did last time we did want 360 it's been 3 years but yeah it was quite a bit like what you described so I'm I'm very open to your suggestions here because it's what I walked away from that evaluation thinking is that there's got to be a way okay so I I really like your suggestions here so far okay I think it would be almost unfair to do a even I mean I think it would be great to do a culture and climate survey just for the purpose of doing the survey but it would almost be unfair in your W though correct to have that cleaning up messes right now well yeah I mean you have no idea the culture and climate takes time develop so just as a year one even if you were going to do it later on fine but year one it would seem unfair regardless even if you just did it culture climate right because they inherited it to the purpose of helping him find out what that would help him evaluate his subordinates because he clearly didn't start this right thing well no and I think that a it' be good for the board to hear a culture and climate survey to get a feel for the temperatur at now but it wouldn't be in reference to an evaluation for the superintendent it would just be for us to plus it give you a track or something to focus in on and then try to learn what's going on to to adjust it that's what I was going to say the value would be seeing where he started at basically we did a culture survey and then you can compare interes as you go on to Future years what do you think about 360s and such I I think there's piece of this that um I do them myself um with my principal I had for the last four years and as a principal I would do that with my leadership teams um knowing that it was Anonymous and then I would take that information I would synthesize it but the most important thing for me was watching from P so when you bring up year one that was always the challenge was I would sit down with my previous superintendent was we would look at it together and You' say okay my this looks like an are that you working on but we don't know that for sure because it could be someone who just is struggling that day when they've completed a survey let's look at year two year three year four and see if you're finding a pattern of things that you want to start um exploring professional development for yourself um exploring in areas where you need to make improvements because that year one in such a struggle that you're really watching for patterns and it's it's hopefully how I try to lead also is that even when people make mistakes I'm trying to look back and see is this a pattern of M because then we do have to help develop them or is it a pattern of mistakes that we have to have more different types of discussions how how are you doing the anonymous surveys though you're not doing having them do it with their computers or anything are and I would just make sure they anous on Google and if I use a Google that's what I've used because here's what I'm going to say is anything that has to do with any electronic device I don't trust it and I think that scares people they won't take a true survey they're going to just sugarcoat it you throw a piece of paper in front of them and say here fill it out by hand don't put your name on it you'll get a whole different kind of R out of that and I appreciate that Scott I think that the challenge that people's had and why people have moved to technology is because technology does a great job of disaggregating and aggregating data that uh people don't want to have to do on paper but I would be fine with do that too because it's not going to be a wide swap of doing 700 people I'd be looking at our district leaders and people who have direct contact in my day-to-day work this who I would be getting feedback from so I I appreciate that thought I know that I wouldn't do anything on a computer I'd be too damn afraid and I made you do like everything online oh man I like paper all right well thank you that's really helpful coming to play off of that with the survey for like culture and climate when districts do that are they using are they keeping that within District do you know or do they hire out a survey company to do it to keep it Anonymous I've only heard of in District because it can be quite expensive if you hire a market research firm the costs are going to be quite high so it's just a matter of priorities um and then in District as far as what do you ask the district I think I talked to last year before said they use PBIS as sort of a framework for it so there's there's lots of ways to measure culture and climate but they said PBIS is probably the best one that they had seen I don't know but every District again does what they want and some people have great market research people on staff that understand how to ask to get the most honest feedback so it is something you can consider but I really appreciate you guys bringing up that it shouldn't be used as evaluation tool in your one that's that's great I appreciate that so much um okay the next slide I'm going to skip over a little bit we're going to work on goals and standards tonight mostly standards and then the rest are just schedule and hold of mid year schedule on the hold the end of year and the pages are the ones that are in the booklet but um the mid year again December January block out two hours to talk about this um just to see if what we talk about tonight or what you adopt maybe in the next few weeks because I'm just going to get you started in a direction ultimately the boards going need to adopt the plan and the process and the goals or standards so um we'll just get you started but middle of the Year sit down have a conversation doesn't have to be super formal with the ratings and everything but check in on stuff how's it going how are we feeling answer questions if there's new board members that want to understand more clarification on these goals or whatever um and then do get one on the calendar even for next July already pick a date in July um and hold a 2-year final evaluation so that the one year is officially in the books and then you say okay now that there's a year under your belt Mike what do you think what kind of direction do we need to head next should we build on what we did last year do we need to start fresh has there been a new crisis that emerged what do we need to do for 25 26 so that's don't do that to us all right never again we're not going to have any more crisis never again never again what opportunities are there in the future of of your year so getting them scheduled is sometimes the biggest key to making sure people hold the calendars um and try not to put it off too long so I'm not going to spend any longer on that slide because we'll get there and then the next slide I always have to mention the open meeting law that's like msba 101 um this is one of the very very few times you can close a meeting is to evaluate your superintendent we encourage you to do so and take advantage of the opportunity to have a more Frank conversation in a closed session you do need to record it there's laws around flow sessions so recording recording all of that um but we say you should go in close session if you can it is however the superintendent's prerogative if it's a Clos meeting or not occasionally a superintendent says I don't want it in a closed session I want to talk about this in front of everybody in an open meeting and in that case you have to do it so it's not your call of the six of you it's really superintendent's call open and Clos the other piece of that is he's a member of your board so he's in that close session for the entire time has the right to be in the session for the entire Clos session time sometimes a superintendent voluntarily steps out for a half hour to let you talk without him there um but he doesn't have to it's his prerogative to step out but he should be in that closed session and fully participating in your discussion about his performance so if it's in an open meeting we would not have to provide a summary then correct because that would be already in an open meeting oh that's a great great question um I think you still have to document it because I think it needs to be part of the minutes the next or meeting so I do think you still need to do it so people know what happened who weren't there to listen to it in open the session so I'm not Terry Morrow but I would lay odds on you still have to prepare prepare record all of our so even if you weren't there it would statute I think you have to have I think you have to have a summary in the minutes like you would have to be recorded as you provided a summary of the EV in your minutes right I think so I think so now if it was in statute that you have to record your meetings then that might suffice but since it's not in statute that you record the only thing is is you have to have the door open and so if the door's open even if you record live stream all of those things I think you're still found by law that you require the summary so then does the full summary get put into the minutes or just in the minutes it would say a summary was provided I think I'd leave that up to your District check with your maybe or your H people CU they know what should shouldn't go in every protocol in the district seem to be a little different you know some air on I'm going put everything in the minutes is some air on like a line of each very brief but that's based on the recommendations from their own legal council and What needs to and so the word needs I always defer local control on that one sounds to me prepared right it's going to be at least agenda pack so yeah it would be if you put your agenda packs on where exactly okay um then the data Practices Act I'm just going to remind you that there's Personnel private data as a part of your review process so you need to handle the Personnel data for your superintendent's performance review according to the laws in the government data Practices Act there are some things that go in the personnel file that are not public never will be public um do not need to be accessed by individual members of the board that's just your personnel Personnel laws so keep them keep in mind that person data so be careful with it how you handle it and talk about it outside of that session and that's it other than the next page talks about the three C's communication look at that it promise it says communication collaboration and Clarity look like little communication anyway it doesn't fit on that screen as well but you got to work together you've got to communicate and you really need to be clear I love when people ask followup question questions you help me understand what do you mean by that um or I'm not clear on this goal because I don't understand this language around MSS or whatever so I'll always ask for clarification just to make sure no one's making any assumptions about the process or the expectations for your student any questions on that how about just the next one says general questions from anybody before we dive into the actual work of the night well I thought we were done no no you got to roll up your sleeve Scott we're going going to keep going can we go back just to one spot just for as we go through this next year yes as we think about January and then July is it often times the case because I've seen it done both ways that in July during what would be a you know an evaluation the end of the year evaluation would you have advice that we turn that right into our goal setting for the following year during that July 2our session um or or taking a step back after the evaluation and trying to do goal setting a month later or yeah that's a great question both ways yeah I have two I think it depends if the evaluation goes real smoothly because nothing should be a surprise if you have an evaluation session in July nobody should be surprised in that session least of all Mike he should know if the board's not happy with it right he should know if you think he's doing a great job so the evaluation itself might not take very long if that's the case and you can then build on that in that same session and start brainstorming about this year's coming goals if though there is um some areas that are in need of improvement or there's some documentation of things that the board elected board members want improved then I think you may want to take a break between that night in the next goal setting session because you just need to deep press and take a breath um the other thing I should mention is the timeline does depend where you're at in the contract year so you a threeyear contract okay so you're in the first year so you can easily have your year end in June or July even though July 1 starts the new year you could do it in June and I'm ready to go by July 1 with another goal set session if it's the third year of the contract I would really encourage you to almost have your year end review or your what's the second one called um mid year and final IAL there's a word for it anyway evaluation summative there you summative evaluation is the final one you could do it in December or January because you're in the third year so I would encourage you to do it much sooner in that third year because two things you either want to lock them in for July 1 for another three-year contract or you need to give them a heads up that they're not going to have a contract and they need 6 months to find work so don't wait until June to do a summative eval ation if it's year three back it up so then there's almost no mid year in the third year you just have the big conversation with a capital T and capital c that conversation probably in December January the very latest makes sense and you're allowed to um negotiate and sign a contract anytime in those last 365 days so on July 1 July 2 of 27 in theory the board could offer m a contract for July 128 you got 365 days that you can negotiate um for the next6 whatever the third year would be would the third year be we could do it right after July 1 26 to lock in for 27 say three year ends 27 yeah okay 24 25 26 I see what you're say yep but you have a whole year to do that okay so I would if it's going well I encourage you to do it sooner rather than later um just so there's no surprises in the spring that suddenly you don't have a superintendent because they decided to go somewhere else and you didn't know that or you decide not to give him a contract and he's feeling stuck because well I would have liked to know that a few months ago when that job opened up or that job opened up so it's a courtesy more than anything else to have that one sooner in here wasn't there a time in that last year where you're supposed to give like send a letter to the superintendent just giving your not your final decision but no to every contract is different okay every contract so that's contractual that's not statute correct it's contractual and I'm sure it's in your contract because it yeah we're mostly based off your model contract so yeah it's real important to boards to get a heads up if they're looking elsewhere um but it's also important the superintendent that you give him a heads up and there is it there's a vary in like the time some require 90 days some require 6 months it just depends on what you agree to when you sign the contract all right so we're going to pull out the books now we no longer need this so you can turn that off thank you again for doing that I really appreciate it okay uh if you take out the booklet there's a couple of highlights that I will make um first of all the beginning part we're not going to read all of it but there's some background on why do evaluations what's the rationale um we talk do and don'ts again it's just a chance to talk and I think more and more superintendents want these evaluations I think there was a time where the superintendent didn't want the school board to do that but this was when superintendent stayed in their positions for 20 or 25 years and Boards turned over constantly so superintendent was kind of Untouchable and the board never understood what their job was so they kind of worked for the superintendent sometimes you know the superintendent don't stay for 25 years in these positions very much anymore occasionally there's an anomaly but generally speaking it's about 5.2 years is average now a lot of them leave at 3 years or less and a lot of them stay for two contracts six maybe nine but they're moving a lot more so umal or 50 50 years or 15 15 such as okay I picked that up M I'm sure I I I understood what you wereing up there be okay there you go I I for what you're talking about but it would be ideal because longevity when it's going well does help help improve your student test sour leadership matters and when you're turning over all the time with I've got District nist on their fourth superintendent in four years those poor kids um they don't know that it's affecting them it's affecting them because parents aren't trusting the district staff's aren't trusting the superintendent it's it's just unfortunate so longevity is really a great idea if you can agree right and work through areas where you need to compromise because you're not always going to agree um but I appreciate okay uh not going to go over anything in here there's a timeline in here that suggests how you could do it on page five you do what fits our tell St you do not have to do this but generally this is what what works and then on page seven it talks about closing the meeting how to close it for superintendent evaluation um postings everyone knows how to post a meeting that's going to be closed there's a motion that needs to be made you go into close session you come out you make a motion to adjourn all of that but f is important that's unless he wants it open right correct and then you do it in the open session um so summary f is what the board chair needs to provide um and then it says g at the next open meeting you provide a summary regardless of whether it's a regular meeting special meeting work session work study Retreat if it's open that's where you give the evaluation summary and the other thing that someone asked me once that I hadn't thought about is what if we have a closed session from 5 to 7 and at 7 we have a board meeting and it's open and it's the next open meeting after the Clos session you do not have to do it for that meeting you don't have time to prepare the summary so it's I mean people are reasonable they know you can't figure it out in 30 seconds so they they give you till the next Common Sense open me right not the one immediately following your Clos session unless he's just so Stellar we can just say he's great there you go I suppose you could do that better however you want to do it you like that Mike I'm okay with that yeah um so I'm just curious around goals for those of you that have been evaluated in a position or are evaluators of people in positions how many of you do use goals as a measurement tool in your evaluations Scott you have you have yes you have okay have any of you used something like standards and elements before and I know it's industry specific so maybe you haven't had the chance to standards standards okay yeah we have all kinds of standards that the new officers have to beet so okay so it's inwriting and it's clear oh yeah okay policy procedures got it so they have to check every category they need to be able to demonstrate how to do a burglary how to take a death scene investigation so yeah there's everything is to a particular standard and then on the standards is there room to be really good at it or really bad at it like there's three different levels it's doesn't meet the standard is meeting the standard and then exceeds the standard okay so okay three problem kind of a similar idea here um what I'll share about goals is that um for first year superintendent we don't recommend goals because it's it's words and words are squishy and people interpret them very differently and it can also take a lot of time when You' got a lot of things on your plate and he's trying to learn so I would recommend um not doing goals this first year but doing standards and elements instead because it's so much more clear and then you have a chance to learn how to work together um some people love goals so there's semantics they love wordsmithing they just love to write does anyone here really love to write and want to take on the task of goals I mean I like writing but I no we're not going in the goals Direction guess my question like so for me when I get an evaluation or give an evaluation of an employee I my our goal go are there's numbers tied to them so it's easier for me to say okay your goal for this year is going to be X you know and it's going to have a number tied to it and that's going to be what you're striving for throughout the year so it's easy to redo that are you saying not setting goals because in this field it's harder to have a tangible number attached to something or a tangible result attached to something is that why you're saying that it can very well be okay yes it very well can be we're not saying like student test scores have to be X like that would be very extremely difficult to set that for that's actually an example I use a lot you're right ahead of me that's awesome um if you go to page A1 a is the appendix toward the back A1 it's right after page 27 so A1 and A2 and part of A3 provide examples of evidence because you if you use goals you have to be able to measure how well you met right and we don't want it to be open to interpretation as to whether you met him or not because measurement is so important so is proof some people call this proof but it's evidence that you wanted me to create uh I don't know a qon plan well the evidence is here's your qon plan check know I did it so there's things here that if a board wants to do the goals this is what a superintendent could pull out and say yep I did it yep I did it yep I did it and not necessarily giving it all to you at the year end evaluation but maybe in the meetings in between I think knowing Mike even him a little bit he's probably regularly updating you regularly helping educate you on where the district is at with things so it's probably happening organically already uh but if you insisted on goals I'd say great figure out the evidence so he knows what you need to know that he did what he want yeah and I'm not insistent on goals I just come from a world where there's there is a tangible number you're going to do you know you're going to bring an ximon you're going to do that whatever there's a tangible number that we can apply and hold somebody to I know that it's very different than this so I just have to wrap my head around the fact that there's just not necessarily an end uh number right or an end it could be a goal area and maybe the standards are goal areas in the goal area of teaching and learning that's a goal area sure then you have some specific elements under there okay but the goal area is not spelled out any more than a couple of words teaching and learning sure um so yeah you could and again you can do anything that you want to do whatever fits I just want to keep it super simple the first year so that you don't get dragged down into stuff and it doesn't start taking too much time of mics because it can be very timec consuming and you want him doing the work not worrying about reporting to you on every single little thing that you're doing right so there's some trust that's being built Trust takes time so the more that this progresses over the year I think by next year maybe if you want some goals I would also suggest that they start with the superintendent um a board member who tries to write goals right out of the gate it's not the language you speak normally so we suggest the superintendent if they want goals brings forth two or three to the board they've already written them they've already thought about them and then they bring them to you for discussion and you can change the language or massage them or add metrics whatever but we do suggest goals start with the superintendent and they bring them to you because you really don't know enough to just pull them out of the air right that's fair also um but he's not setting his own goals you will work with him to set those so it's not like you're giving free reign to pick three easy goals show up to work every day I did it it's great give me your raise you know you're not doing that um it's very thoughtful and you're more qualified to write them so you Happ no no that's thought of just showing up for work every day being a go because I've had that go for staff in my past so I understand and unfortunately in this day and age you actually have to have that as a goal for your employees that's what's so sad well I think part of it was is we were working a lot 10 years ago with just having goals that was part of it yes that's for some staff members if you're growing them that is sometimes where you do start y you do just God's Point sometimes they don't work out as well it absolutely right so I'm not going to talk about goals anymore okay yet but we're going to jump into standard or standards elements so I do have this little quiz for you I'm going to give everybody a table want um you can close this if you want but it's basically page 12 this is open book yeah we open book you can keep it open book if you want to and I have to say that this is not one two three this is not like a test and these are not going to be written in St so um I get nervous test right you want my well it's on paper you do not have to put your name on it and I'm not collecting it I don't need a password to open this well if you do are in trouble I'm going to ask you to do something that might make some of you uncomfortable because what I'm going to ask you to do is just based on the words on this page I want you to pick two standards out of eight each of you gets a vote so there's going to be six votes tonight five board members and a superintendent everybody gets to pick two standards that are your priority for Mike to work on this this coming year okay um and then I'm going to say a step further look over at the right list and I want you to pick two elements in each standard so on the first one for instance there's five bullet points each of you has to Circle two of those five and then two of the five under School District finances and two of the six under communication so even if they're not our top two correct everyone's going to choose 16 elements and the thing that makes you uncomfortable is you don't know what all of these mean what they mean is in here and there's no way we're going to go through that all tonight so I'm looking for your gut level responses based on what you think delegation of duties means it could change once you look through this booklet in more depth so just jump and assume the Net's going to be there and pick two standards and 16 elements and then I'm going to do a physical tal once you're all done with this I'll give you maybe five minutes or so to do it don't think too hard okay don't think too too hard and don't turn to the book to try to look it up cuz this is just a preliminary chest for for for for and keep in mind these are areas of priority for the coming year just because you don't pick something doesn't mean it is important a lot of people feel like um I'll pick one if you don't pick support for students it's like that doesn't mean you don't think support for students is important what it means is that's probably going pretty well and there's other things that he can be working on that are bigger fir it's kind of like what are the biggest fires right now that you really need to focus on everything else is coming along nicely or good enough um doesn't need his time and attention as much as the other things do oh I passed you passed never a doubt do you want the B Bar don't but I am going to save raise your hand I'll going take a a tally that way I'm also going to track results um of the elected board members and Mike separately because it's always interesting to see if the superintendent aligns with what the board sees or vice versa and if not why is that and that kind of gets to the heart again of the fact that he's Lo on the ground every day in the district and he might see things as a priority that you haven't done so we'll do both that might have to go in his evaluation then if he doesn't align with you I'll wait and go last at least at least I'll go after [Laughter] Scott all right bear with me while I take score so everyone only has two standards that are priorities right okay so if you picked governance as one of you two raise your hand I'm just going to count quick governance one the only one school district finances zero communication and Community relationships one 2 three four School District Operations two human resources it's one teaching and learning one two three student support one inclusive leadership zero okay so 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 perfect that number should be 12 right okay that's a relief sometimes we don't come up with that so I'm I'm going to do the elements right now and same thing so you got to pick two out of five for governance team so how many of you had roles and responsibilities in your top two one goals and our strategic plan one two three policy implementation one two three information for decision making one two three School Board questions and development one two 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 good okay budget development and maintenance five five Financial statements zero Financial controls zero Bond and Levy one two three four five asset protection one two seven perfect okay standard three relationship with the community one 2 three engagement one informs the community as a whole one two three advocacy one media zero visibility and approachability 1 2 3 4 all right under operations facilities one two three four okay facilities for transportation zero Food Service zero technology one maintenance one two Personnel 1 2 3 4 five and Human Resources internal Communications one two Personnel concerns two three delegation of Duties one two I had some someone read that wants his der elction of Duties why would that be a standard then do that uh let's see okay visibility and approachability in Human Resources visibility approachability uh zero hiring and staff development zero collective bargaining and Union relations one evaluation one 2 3 4 dang that was the correct answer for all right teaching and learning how many has staff development you talk to one two uh School Improvement one two three four curriculum and instruction one two Professional Knowledge of teaching anding one two culture of cooperation one two all right student support we're almost done student engagement and feedback one student attendance One support for students one two support for students okay student disciplines one two three culture of cooperation zero School Safety and Security 1 2 3 4 five emotional health and social needs zero okay and finally ethical and inclusive Behavior ethics and professional Behavior 1 2 3 4 5 six interactions with staff students and Community one two 3 4 five six so what in the world easy peasy I guess you passed two right all right um interesting so what I will do is I'm going to take these results and I'm going to color code this chart I'm going to highlight in red what the board team like a majority of you so probably anything that has four or more cuz I four out of six four or more I'm going to put in red I'm also going to put um in blue your superintendent choices and where you have both aligned where it's like half red half blue that might be a standard you take a look at with an element um for evaluation purposes but right now it does look like communication Community relationships and teaching and learning although the only one that had four both was communication Community relationships it might end up being that the elements you evaluate Mike on are not necessarily any of the ones in standard three I think the last two ethics and professional behavior and interaction the fact that you had six of you that's 100% on those two those are probably going to be priorities for him to be evaluated on because it's really important to all of you um some other ones that were high budget development and maintenance had five Bond and lby had five uh Personnel under operations had five let's see budget development vond and Levy both of which Mike agreed with Personnel Mike you didn't have that in your top two you had facilities and Technology you want to talk a little bit about those change your um primarily because and I'm not sure how do people respond to EV valuations under Human Resources uh four of them for a majority had evaluation I I was that's number one of my primaries is because it doesn't incorporate very well with personnel and uring exactly the process we're doing here is how I'm looking at that too consum School District Operations and working and managing and leading Personnel is a lot related to evaluation SL coaching so to me it's there there's some overlap on a lot of these so I don't disagree with that the reason why I Mark technology on there is because I know where school districts are working right now and a lot of the things that are happening that are happening out there that I want to make sure that we're not falling behind other school districts and I think I was probably the only one that marked that window yep y that's just a different perspective yeah and it's important for the board to know that because you're seeing things that they're not exposed to so it might be something that you want to talk through and add that or find a way to measure it or start working toward technology as a goal for next year something so okay very interesting um and then let's see School Safety and Security had five including Mike you guys are all really on the same page just about everything that had five so Bond and Levy other than Personnel um School Safety and Security ethics and professional behavior and interaction with staff students community Mike and the board were on the same page that's really great that's really great that's unusual so now I'm going to go to well what does this mean because you took this blind you haven't read through the book to actually see what do I mean by these things again you did a gut check so you can always take this again in the week once you've had a chance to read through this more um I'm going to look at budget development maintenance first so let's go to standard two which is on page 14 standard two of school district finances and a got five votes um budget development and maintenance so you could pull that one 2 a and put that in um an evaluation Matrix for him and this is your rubric so he knows very clearly that if he engages in timely budget planning and in actions that consider both current and long-term information and data seeks to balance and meet students current and future needs and be fiscally responsible to community therefore Distributing resources to meet the immediate and longterm objectives if he does that you really got to read it before right then it kind of slides down and if uh Mike's budget knowledge is limited and the budget is developed and managed without taking into consideration the current needs of the school district and he re uh allocates resources without considering your needs well you give them a one so I think some of what people like about this rubric is it takes emotion out of the equation because sometimes we have superintendents that are very good friends with school board members and they want to give them threes and fours because they like them so much well I'm sorry but if you're ineffective or you're developing you probably don't deserve threes and fours so it takes that personality out of it and subsequently we have superintendents that are oil and water with board members that's okay you don't have to like each other you just have to work together right for students so if you don't like him but this is what he's doing you got to give him fours so it it makes it more objective and I think that's why Masa and msba will hold it so you could use something like that um let's jump down to Personnel operations to see if that kind question maybe this doesn't apply in some of these other areas as much but just specifically for this one budget development and maintenance for the board and and maybe this is something where Mike brings us information on how things are going but for the board to know whether or not these things are going well wouldn't we need you know the information from Joe and Mike and that would have to be provided to us to even be able to evaluate if these things are truly going well yeah so it's not just us looking at his performance we would need data to show that right right and how would you handle that because that's a really great question it kind of is scalable to the size of the district in small districts the superintendent does the budget right in large districts they oversee like seven people that do the budget so it's it's scalable so how would you suggest that Happ in a district our size where it does end up having a lot of overlap with Joe's position is that the decision that a superintendent would make with his leadership team on how we're Staffing because Staffing makes up such a large portion of our budget um is ensuring that I'm providing information and making decision that our staffing is appropriate and that we're not spending too much money um that I'm coming to you and saying we're over budget coming to you and saying their over budget that I'm not telling you that on June 30th um that we're having those conversations earlier but toar Point she exactly correct if I'm in a smaller School District up in northern Minnesota um I'm going to have maybe a halftime person who's an accountant helping me ensure that the mve requirements are being done but that superintendent is doing all that work we we're fortunate to have someone like Mr prom helping to well not helping leading to have that I think there's some there's some transparency there that when you get into larger districts um to get into the multi-millions of dollars the superintendent they're not playing in Back Seat but they're they're almost in the driver's seat in the front row with that business services person so I don't know if I'm answering your question but I just think no I think I think so I guess I just think like okay you know the example of the staffing needs you know and we over budget or whatever or let's say we're not over budget but are we over staff still I mean it's questions like that like where are we driving that data from or where where are we getting that information from is that just what we're getting provided throughout the year and we're taking that and compiling that into an answer to this standard right part of it I think part of it is when we have our budget reviews with Joe yeah and then ensuring that either through one onone or through our committee level uh discussions that were helping to expl to the board why we beet those decisions but it usually so often times comes back to Staffing but there are some facility purchases that also happen that Joe is Consulting with his superintendent now and in previous years because Joe is not going to be exactly sure about why we would be adding a certain position on and that's going to impact our budget and sometimes when you add that means you have to subtract right and does the board feel like the instructional leader District has made a choice that they think is falling in line with our strategic plan and our mission that's where I can see that being reflected on something like this you know I've seen school districts with the dollars and cents of what did everything align your superintendents are't going to be well that's what's so hard I think that's why I said maybe the next one it won't be as relevant but you know School Finance school budget it's a extremely complicated topic I feel like to even know so this was just maybe the example itself where this really pertains it'd be hard it'd be hard to know all of these things for sure just because it's such a complicated part of a school district so maybe the next example is not going to be as and I would you know I would think of last year when this board had to make some decisions about approving a $1.7 million cut is not necessarily reflective of previous superintendent's work in terms of budget development and maintenance right there's so many other variables that play a part in that so you can't necessarily use that I would think as a part of your metric Mak that decision but I also don't know human nature how you might not that well that's where I think throughout the year you know what information are we getting in in understanding where those budget cuts stem from what are the variables that came into play that caused that I think that's probably what the data is that we're going to have and look at is throughout the year we're going to be getting that information and I think about the amount of data that school board members get when they get their packets related to District finances can can be a great deal of information to try and absorb yet it's it's still being transparent by District administration but that's a pretty high standard to have Schoolboard members going through 30 to 40 pages worth of expenditures when we have staff doing it your 40 hours a week three to four them to make sure that you get that information right right that's pretty hard for school member also got another occupation so I'm not sure how that fits into this conversation part but it's things that play out in my mind right yeah no you're right you're right and I'm glad you brought up the size of the district because one of the things that's different these are the same standards and elements whether it is a 300 student District or a 33,000 student District so sometimes um they need to talk through what do we mean by this because really in a larger district Mike leads the leaders and you don't want him in the leads you don't want him spending his time and energy doing the budget because you have a leader who's working on that on your staff or leaders so he's got to balance where do you want me and I'm the face of the community and I'm in the community and I'm communicating or do you want me in here making sure that every T is crossed and I is dotted he can't do both cuz he's going to burn out if he tries to do well that's maybe why I said maybe this just isn't the greatest example maybe it is to you know it might not be and again you might change your answers if you take the test again in a week because we read this but that's up to you guys I just looked at Bond and ly because I've got five votes and I don't know that that's applicable right now either because it sounds like you already have you have figured out for February right do you know how much you're asking for yet yeah we okay so help School Board assure that Levy and bond campaigns meet immediate fiscal needs and advanced long-term School District goals and their priorities if you've already made a decision of what you're asking for in February maybe you don't need to help them figure that out so maybe you could say something about a Communications plan and the talking points and the copying conversations instead of that's why I didn't check that so I W on that one well done well done I can share some of them the reason I picked that one is not so much the facilities B that we're going out to repr for but knowing that we're coming up the next few years to the end of our operation plan and just having the foresight and the planning before when that so that the next two or three years uh years okay first looking at I and maybe I misunderstood the assignment if we're talking year one is what we're checking as like what our priorities would be year one right not to say that you shouldn't have the foresight but can we measure it in year one you could put a pin in it until you're two or three but the the idea that it's rising to the top is important well that's prior well guess I Circle it thinking more about like what you would talk about the goals of like him going out there and communicating and then us having like that shared goal of like we're going to have like we're going to memorize those talking points and being kind of that team which I feel like we could write out you could write out I have this in word you could rewrite it so it fits your particular circumstances it makes more sense y you absolutely can do that because you're right this is more longterm planning but um yeah that's conversation so of course um let's go to Personnel under operations for just a moment page 16 there were five I want to call them quotes but five people felt the Personnel was a priority in terms of operations so that would be F element or F ensur sites are staffed appropriately staff receives ongoing professional development that's a highly effective superintendent most sites are staffed appropriately it's a three multiple sites lack appropriate number of staff professional development is offered but not used that's two well if staff level is inadequate across the district and no PD is offered or if if offered not utilized that's a pretty ineffective use of your personnel in terms of operations so this may or may not be what you thought when you voted for it CU I have had people go through and say well now that I read it that's that's not what I meant and so that's okay the idea is that you took a stab at it and if you have time in the next week or so to read this and circle the ones that maybe mean more to you you can take this quiz again but this is just the starting point but that would be the Personnel one um School Safety and Security had five votes including the superintendent so let's go to student support on page 20 and it will be the second to bottom of uh second page 21 I yeah 21 School Safety and Security got a lot of vs a systemwide plan is developed and implemented to assure that all the buildings and grounds are safe and secure collaborates with local law enforcement fire prevention agencies ensures the use of effective crisis management strategies and techniques monitors Effectiveness ures drills are conducted to ensure everyone knows their roles and responsibilities that's a pretty heavy lift which I think it's important if it's a priority this year yes the thing I would say is if if one of these elements is something depending on where your Baseline is where you are right now if it's that big of a lift I'd say maybe have just two or three elements some of these elements are I say easier to do that's not the right word but um more achievable in a year than others then you could have maybe four or five and some might not be achievable just due to budget right right so don't pick it for performance evaluation because that's not his fault right okay so depending upon how big a lift some of these elements are I just caution you not to pile too many five would be too many if they're that big cuz that's that's pretty big at least when I read it I'm like whoa that's a lot lot of work to do this year but if it's a priority then yes you want it identified but then let's go to the last one because you have unanimous support for 8 a and 8B so those might be things you would evaluate Mike on at the end of the year um ethics and professional Behavior demonstrates commitment to highest standards of ethical professional Behavior including courage and integrity creates a climate see we're talking climate here uh in which employees are highly conscious of ethical and professional expectations and holds each other accountable provides exemplary model provides exemplary model that influences stakeholders to act with high degree of professionalism respect and trustworthiness and depending upon again where you're starting that may or may not be achievable in a year um an ineffective person doesn't comply with any standards of ethical professional Behavior doesn't articulate expectations doesn't model it doesn't interact with others professionally respectfully or in a trustworthy manner so you're you're the Jason was here you're the seven that are going to decide whether or not that fits but you all did identify that one it's important and the next one B the interactions highly effective Mike would assure that school district procedures and practices are systemically reviewed and revised to reflect fairness and respect for human dignity from members of the school Community he would build relationships with Union and non-affiliated employee groups through trust and sharing appropriate information transparency was big during the search too and so some of that ties to transparency as I keep looking at this and I keep thinking is it fair to give him four levels like is it fair to think that he's going to be highly effective in year one or is it more realistic to say that we have like the three levels of like can we could we agree as a group that he is being effective and that like and we don't even have force in our do anything you want or yeah or a four like Barb what you were saying you could choose parts of the element that would become a four if parts of parts of the elements are achieved so like demonstrates commitment to highest standards of ethical and professional Behavior including courage and integrity could be one but then we could maybe go through and say okay well some of these just aren't you know attainable in one year or harden a measure in one year remove some of them and still would be rated as a four whatever we choose is whatever we bring on is meaning very much as think my my caution would be having used these before and and reflecting back on some things I wish I would have done differently there what you're bringing up that I was working with teachers and I would be working with a rubric like this and and unless they got everything down you felt like and you've been advised back 10 12 years ago you shouldn't be listing someone else is you know we had developing proficient and something else Exemplar right and you would be working with teachers who have been done doing this for 25 or 30 years and have a realization well they didn't do every one of them based on the rubric that was set up for you for that element and you were you felt stuck because a building leader that you had to then go back to a three or it could be a three and you had to go back to two right um so I I don't have an answer to that but I do recognize having been kind of in your shoes how that could feel not necessarily truly reflective of that person's work right one way or another yeah because I mean the fact that we all agreed I mean it was unanimous essentially from minus Jason not here but I mean it's obviously this is an important standard and I think before you know keep the rating scale but maybe we could scale down a few of the expectations that would make the performance of full for year one and then we could add in you know there could be additionals for year two or whatever right you could always modify this for year two yeah would that get to your concern that it's too much the way it's written for a for yeah it is a lot for pretend to do all of that I just look at like consistently models highest standards of ethical and professional Behavior would still be in my in his first year achieving a pretty great deal so I guess I was just looking at the threes and thinking wow well I'd still be pretty impressed if you were able to accomplish that in your one well and in my world you know it's you get told that you really shouldn't be getting exceeding expectations like ever like you it's just not an attainable and I don't want to set that up either CU then to your why even have a before if it's if it's never going to be attainable then why put it on there but it goes to it goes to yeah I think some of like just again using this example some of this is reflective of the character of the person and really nothing necessarily to do with outside variables and some of these things in here in this four have to do with outside variables that would be extremely hard to have the impact on necessary in year one you know so some of it is just who you are as a person which will demonstrate right away you know and that I think we could focus more on those things and take out the things that are just not not there yet not going to be there in your absolutely and I I should point out though even though it's a rubric there's still room for individual interpretation around these so if if the elected board members are scoring Mike as all threes and fours you're in the same bucket you're fine if you're if it's all ones and twos you're in the same bucket when we're concerned is when it's a one and a four cuz clearly you need to talk about something so it's not perfect in that everyone's going to give it a four because everyone understands this the same way it's still words and words are still open to interpretation if they're close though threes and fours twos and threes ones and twos you're totally fine and you probably have an average score so if each board member has rated one through four usually the board chair would sort of collect those before the close session just to get a head start um you don't have to do it that way but very often you gather them ahead of time and you come in and say hey average 3.8 on this one average 2.6 on this one of the elected board members readings and we're doing this together prior I mean we are agreeing on whatever is set for three four whatever our our elements are we would agree on that long before we're coming long before y yeah that's the agreeing on a process and agree on expectations and then maybe two weeks before your closed session the chair would send it out and say hey if I remember this is what we agreed to and send me back your ratings and I'll average it and total it or whatever and then Mike has the option to doing a self evaluation also and bringing a self Val you do that okay great I want to okay so he'd compare his to the average board scores and see if you're in that ball perk and again it's great if you're similar if you're spread apart then you're going to have a pretty intense conversation about why um I've had board members rate someone low and then the superintendent comes in and theyve rate themselves very high on the same area and what happens then is you get a chance to talk about why and I'll tell you what more often than that after the superintendent explains why they rated themselves high on that I've had board members say well now I get it I'm going to I'm bumping up to three because now I understand and I agree you are doing this really really well so it's never written in stone until you've talked about it and agreed on something um and there's always an explanation or if the superintendent says well I thought I was doing really well why are you giving me a 1.6 I'm really confused and then you listen to the board talk about well I was disciplined with this so I didn't think this was done well and you have a chance to respond that's really healthy you those are tough conversations sometimes but you got to have them so you're not caught off guard when contract those right um so what I would suggest next is I'm going to put together that colored page of green anding red and blue and I send it to um superintendent and the board chair as a starting point and then if you want to you could bring back a recommendation to the board of here's the four elements that sound like are the strongest and what do you think board um and your next session where you talk about this I hope you do it within a month so too much time doesn't go by I mean we're already two months into the year just at some point adopt them and say yep we're going with this this year this is what we feel good about it's simple it's clear and then that's it and then you revisit it maybe your mid year between December or January so do we want to have a a deadline when we're Jason's not here but thanks so this is kind of T do we want to have a time in which we're agreeing on kind of having this set by because December doesn't seem too far away November 5th well wouldn't it be November would be our next word session time to right but is there going to be enough time between now and next week to get all information maybe maybe we could take the time to at least retake the survey next week that doesn't take very long so we can really see like now after we've had the time to read it that I guess that would be my thought because I would like to see like I know I myself will probably change some like after I would I'm just and then and then and then November I think would be reasonable okay no work session so you're getting yeah so you're getting the scores of what we scored today tonight like a preliminary here's your gut response knowing it might change but I'll get that to you I'm hopeing to get done tomorrow before the weekend and get it to the two of you um are you comfortable with Mike taking the lead on some of the suggestions and then talking about with him at the work session also so I think you have a pretty good feel after two months about where things are at in the district and where you see priorities are yourself okay what about the Strategic plan is it current is it expiring be expiring after this year expiring after this year okay um and that didn't that got three so it got half the bo strategic plan I think that would be unfair cons I just think that would be I think that it's something that we absolutely have to focus on as the work in coming year here but I think beair might have nothing to do with written as it is and it hasn't been two years ago so how about the creation of a new one toward working toward a new one because I'm assuming it's expiring and lots has changed so maybe just on his radar before the end of the start the ground for well and it doesn't have to be complete either no I it could be the start see I guess I I looked at it more from the I circled it thinking that it should be a priority that we start doing that not well I different different ways of looking yeah right that's that's the whole reason we talk about it right because you could evaluate on has he even started it we even started any like you can build it however you want right definitely I can I went I went a second layer and started looking at how I would attack some of these year one versus year two versus three that often which often impacted which elements I chose to um and and I'm I'm going to ask and I'm going be a little vulnerable in this way um I didn't I didn't choose ethical inclusive leadership um because I see so much of what I when I read within that that indicator or that standard so much of it is directly related into in the work that you do all definitely over yeah and I and so I I appreciate the opportunity to to work on those first two um and and I'm sure that the board sees that happen so what would you think of bringing the notes I love the idea I haven't had superintendent do this yet the idea of this year this Focus still on to the next year this Focus you're you're taking three years out yes ma'am what would you think of bringing a preliminary thought on that to the board at their next work session oh certain cuz that's actually very phenomenal because you recognize the overlap yeah there's a here to say but you also recognize you can't do it all your first year um and the reason why I have an expectation that if ethical inclusive leadership isn't happening year 1 2 3 4 5 6 78 then none of this happens and actually I'm not surprised nope that you did that and went that far and CU you're a planner and I think you're always looking into the future so yeah things we can work on for sure and you can you can't play off no and I appreciated everyone's feedback on recognizing that CU not all people are lucky enough to have a board that senses that and recognize that so thank you I I did have one board one time that wanted every element to be included in the performance review this whole book we won't do that maybe five put that down 15 you're 15 that being said though his job description and his daily work is every single one of these right he has to do all of this in his role the reason we say for performance evaluation purposes is that for for performance yeah four words for performance evaluation purposes pick two or three elements and evaluate him on that knowing that he's doing the rest of the under the water Iceberg you know you're just going to the top of the iceberg you can see and you're going to evaluate him but he's got the whole iceberg so that kind of Grace I think is important to understand that he can't do everything and if he tries he's going to burn up and you don't want to lose a good superintendent because they burn out because they think they have to do everything for everybody all the time so you're good with that prioritization yes ma'am don't do it we don't want him to burn out so that's why we need to evaluate him on his golfing handicap oh really that's a new one I haven't heard that there yet how high every month how high I can get it I'm really good at that um so do you feel comfortable with the next steps do you have any other questions for me was this helpful cuz this conversation is a good one I think for new boards So yeah thank you to okay okay wonderful I am always disappointed when a board says no we don't need that you know probably 70% of our searches take us up on this but it's free and the other 30% I sometimes wonder how are you talking about expectations and are you going to be able to get off on the right foot cuz you got to communicate over all of this stuff so I'm thrilled that you invited me back thank you very much I'm glad to hear it's going so well kudos Kudos B very happy for you but you've got my phone number you got my email you can call me or email anytime and I'll try and have this tomorrow by Monday the very latest as far as the color is on the first dra of this and you can run with and set up whatever process you want okay and then you're all good yeah you want to do that cuz the last time we met it was what 1 or 2 in the morning 145 oh nice to see you reason time yeah reason hour and you get to go home you're not the only board that did that I had some words going for two last year much later than you so yeah this is this is exciting to see I always love coming full circle coming back um how many are going to the leadership conference in January do you know yeah yeah yeah you can't make it oh you don't know I my schedule yeah come find me and say hi you know we're excited about this year we got everything just today we picked all the workshops and everything so it's going to be open or when I can't remember when does that usually open Thursday morning is most of it right now registration Sor I think we we can we can sign up now can we I see I don't know I think we can I'm pretty sure we can you'd probably get emails about it because we said I feel the emails I was getting was to submit my like work yeah proposal when it's too late to sign up for it yeah you can sign up fairly late you don't I I don't they they don't let my schedule out till like end of November oh you'll maybe a week or two I don't think I've ever registered before December yeah no you'll have plenty plenty of time but it it should be good again this year negotiations is one of the early birds on Wednesday night you got negotiations this year if you do or not but um it'll be another really good one but I always love seeing our members that have gone through searches with us so that is all I have for you so thank you very much thanks for coming B you thanks a lot okay so we are going to retake this evaluation next week at our work session and then at our November work session we will finalize finalize sounds good y right then I'm just going to look for a motion to have a motion by Jen second by Scott any discussion hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I those close saying a motion carries we are adjourned at 811 I think Jason said B oh no I heard him from Denver on the plane oh is that where he far far away yeah he answered boort oh destroy my so i' asked my daughter if she really had to work tomorrow cuz it's not me she said yes I promise I don't work tomorrow okay I got a sister she's 22 no knows everything at least most of them identifi as potential when are you are you s out do for up yeah okay sure m is it yeah no it's like am I going to need my y have a good drive byb byee thank you I will have a good night every