e good evening gentlemen hello there how are you good how about you um good just got back from Boston a little while ago was it a mad race back um riding the front of the wave before the traffic always good to get there before it backs up yep so and we and we can check in about the the web page after town meeting happy to so hey [Music] Isaac how's it goingo yeah I'm sorry about last uh last meeting I really apologize that it wasn't a quorum if we weren't show so short-handed we'd just kick you off the committee nice don't believe him Isaac well why now now that it's a 5:30 why don't I start the meeting call us to order and uh I think I'm thinking we it's a short meeting um so just touching base about a few things and Isaac it was no you know it was it was a bummer you weren't there but no big deal you know it's we we survived just dandy um and uh it's always a dance not having an official meeting and still talking and figuring out what you can say and what you can't say it's clear you can't de side stuff but there's like deciding in lowercase that one can do so it's it's always interesting but housekeeping and scheduling is fine though so we were great totally so let's see any public comment I see no public in attendance no I don't oh so Gail you're taking minutes today right I am great and Nate you're on for next time in May good sure cool great thank you guys um so seeing no public comment we can just jump in um so I think it's prep for town meeting um and the stretch code discussion so I guess the things I would take off I don't know if well I guess I sent you emails but Gail definitely knows I updated the stretch code page to um I created a new handout that I thought we could just go over but um yes as I after looking at the warrant and seeing that our friends in the fincom decided that they didn't want to support this I thought we really needed something that was short and concrete um so you know what their objections are or if they have objections mostly it was extensions well I you know my so this is my take is there's there's nothing in the budget there's no budget implications to this so there's really no reason why would they respond yeah yeah and the fact that the select board which your report you didn't recommend or not recommend like they should take your position it's so it's it's all very odd um it seems like hey yeah I just want to say I I watched the uh the tape right I went to the tape so um smart man the you know you're you're right that there were um I think five extensions and that was reflective of the fact that bcom had not discussed the article as a group um and you know one person uh spoke up you know sort of in opposition and uh came from the perspective of a builder who had built in stretch in stretch code communities before and Harum forp Harum I don't think actually addressing the warrant article which isn't about the stretch code in general but about you know a couple of very specific Provisions that are um uh you know part of this opt-in code um so and as far as like why they voted um at all when they they did not vote about uh Community Choice aggregation there was no fincom vote for CCA which one could arguably say has you know far more reaching economic implications for the community as a whole but Becky seemed to be under the impression that they were statutorily obligated to have a vote so some folks questioned whether they could postpone it or not have a vote there's pressure to have a vote but I think thankfully most people um said it's better to abstain about something that we haven't discussed uh or clearly like not having even really read it and thought about it um can ask a clarifying question where's the pressure to vote come from uh Becky if I recall uh Becky suggested that they were statutorily obliged uh and that there were economic implications to the town of uh flowing from the warrant article uh I I can't comment on whether that's well grounded but I would just point out that again last year I went to the article from I went to the warrant from last year as well to you know and there was no fincom vote there and I thought it was unfortunate that the the vote took place in a way that I thought was prejudicial to the substance of the warrant article but um you know it is what it is I think so yeah I think we got to be careful about the language and not be referring this to the stretch code if our if our intent is to make the stretch code distinct from the optin or specialized code I think we need to be more careful so we want to make sure that as you've pointed out in the handout and on there's not a big difference between the two so don't fault the specialized code on some preconception or some misconception but but but sure that our language distinguishes those two as different yeah I agree with that completely and I appreciate Michael's sort of you know packaging of um you know the the handout because I think it it IT addresses that issue is one of the more compelling you know tables of um our you know the presentation to the town um uh that we hosted and it I think it's maybe the most clear um presentation um just highlighting that we're not talking about a any large changes we're talking about our current code plus some pre-wiring of homes it doesn't even require you to install sour panels right as I understand it it merely is future proofing the wiring homes yeah the one the one area of confusion on that chart is the mixed fuel one that's in the middle because I I mean I still continue to be confused by it but I sort of come down on that's only mixed fuel for new building or you know the question question is if you have mixed View and you do more than a th000 feet and it's not that chart doesn't make it clear about the wiring versus the panels he did say it was no panels but um that's I think the only place where it's it could be clearer in terms of the chart because the other the other you know the all electric and just the straight renovation those are really straightforward um and I could I could share it I guess um the other I was before I do that though so what I was thinking for town meeting and it's I mean it's be it's towards the beginning of the meeting so people will be somewhat fresh which is nice um I was thinking Nate if you you and I went up I could sort of frame it a little bit and then you could you could be sort of the the substance guy but what I was what I was thinking given what we're just talking about is I thought I would just ask everyone in the audience to say who here is willing is thinking about building a new house in shutesbury the next five years yeah it's got to be like one or two people at Max maybe zero um and then say how many people here are going to be doing 1,000 foot plus renovation in the next five years yeah because it's all of a sudden it's like okay so it doesn't affect anybody here so like what's the big HHA yeah so good and then I can pass it off to you and you can do the detail I think frankly people don't want the code that we have now that's what's upsetting them and they didn't realize we have they have the code that we have now ah I think that's probably correct another reason to make the distinction clear between the two yeah yeah I mean I think to Isaac's point you know the where the for the people who don't like it the desire would be to basically to relitigate being a green Community which is why we're here um you know and we're not going to relitigate that but I think that's sort of what I think people would want to do um CU if we're a green Community this is where we're at you know it's just sort of like this baby Step Beyond so I'm just going to share the handout for a second just because I want to make sure since we're talking about it can you all see that okay yeah yep so the top one so all electric um it's exactly the T same across the board and then for the home editions it's the same thing and it's the mixed fuel that's little confusing so you got under 4,000 feet it's a solar PV plus wiring for electrification and then it says the same thing underneath and then on the passive option it says iring so it's it's sort of the the two that are the um 4,000 under and 4,000 over that it just is written weird so I mean how yeah I mean does that mean solar solar voltaic minimum 4 kilowatt like you need to put on at least a 4 kilowatt array on your on your mixed new mixed fuel home and you have to put on a net zero solar panel array for 4,000 square feet and over that's that's how I read it you know they're trying to they're trying to push people to if you're having a new home to make it electric yeah and then and then you only have to do the wiring but if you do the mixed fuel because you're not doing what they prefer they want to make sure that you actually put solar on the house yeah so I mean I think if you all agree with that interpretation we just have to be able because someone's going to point out when we say it only requires extra wiring they'll you know if they're looking at this handout they're going to glob onto that de second so I think we should also like really dig into mixed fuel new homes like so this is a home that you're building if you're going to build a new home that has propane heat and gas or like gas heat and electric or gas and or wood and electric like I mean I I think it's really clear to spell that out because it might be I mean yeah I could see where somebody might have a wood stove and electric and then that would be a mixed fuel home right I don't know if if wood counts um I think it would be really good to clarify because this is a hug sticking point because if it's oil and gas or if it's Oil and Propane like I mean who's going to build a house that has you know like you know it's you're building a new home and you're going to you're going to put F like photovoltaic on it and you're going to put in G like you know oil an oil tank like nobody wants an oil tank like you know so if it's oil tank or if it's propane my propane you know let's say all right you have like it's the Pioneer Valley you know asparagus Trail you've got a Potter that wants to put in a gas fir fired Kiln right does that count as a mixed fuel home because I think this is like if if the mixed fuel is a sticking point like we have to be realistic in what kind of questions are going to come and what what makes a mixed Feel Home yeah I can reach out to um Chris and if it's not I mean it it might easily be on the on their website to find out um I think you're You're On Target the I guess you know not to say that we shouldn't figure it out but having just gone through um the whole process of prepping for geothermal which is underway you guys so like I have the drilling is not scheduled but the check is in so that's good um but we have a wood stove and that wasn't disqualifying um in terms of Mass Save and sort of the geothermal like it's it's sort of uh because we're not it's not a primary heating so I don't know quite how they do that but how about gas cooking then okay here's here's here's what I got um I just did a Google search a mixed fuel home is a home that uses fossil fuels for heating for water heating cooking drying and space heating is that but who's that from well let me just see this is AI overviews check your sources yeah I know let's just see Mass stretch code mixed fuel all right all right stretch code I'm fairly sure that um it's meant for heating it's specific to fossil fuel combustion for heating right any kind of combustion any kind you would have a pipe into your house for any of those fuels I believe that's correct I don't think it includes wood oh okay let's confirm a mixed fuel building a building that contains combustion equipment or includes piping for such equipment there you go and that's on the masv website under the residential specialized stretch code code downloadable PDF on page three so that would include kilms and yeah tops and Clos dryers yeah yeah if you have like a gas dryer if you want a gas stove if you have a gas fired Kil y wow yeah I think you know yeah I mean I'll reach out to Chris just to sort of get the official word but yeah yeah yeah I think it comes comes back to me having people raise hands because the reality is if you're not going to build a new home it doesn't matter what kind of 100% yeah say it again if you're not going to build a new home it doesn't matter if it's electric or mixed it's still and we would I think what we're basically saying is the state wants to have all electric new homes and that's what chatsbury is basically saying and if you you choose to build a new home and not then you should need to put solar panels on but in all other instances it's just wiring um so I you know hard to know which way it'll go it can either be really straightforward and easy um and or it could be sort of this whole jumbled conversation but the wiring is only for mixed fuel new homes because it says solar PV minimum for like it doesn't say for n homes or home additions and alterations are historic and addition existing homes really all them all the waters are muddied mix fuel um yeah but if you're but if you're doing a 4 kilowatt array what's the wiring for electrif oh I guess if you're not using electricity for heat maybe y or your dryer or your stove top yeah or or your car or something like that yeah yeah okay W does so yeah okay so it doesn't include include the automobile though right because it's it's just the structure the building like cuz I think it's the stretch code that we're in right now any new you need to have like a you know a a panel or part of your breaker uh box has to be wired for an electric vehicle right y okay now you going to say Nate yeah that's it I mean the the current code um accounts for that pre-wire in for electric vehicles already wow and and that's I think this that's the kind of stuff that like Nate you know if if you're ready and prepared to answer those questions I think it's it's going to be a lot of this confusion of I think Gail's head said it people or actually ISAC that people don't know that we have a new stretch code you know and so like the regular vanilla new stretch code includes all this stuff and just clarifying that like here here's the the optin augmentation um which is not very much yeah so yeah when the Builder was talking about you know building in stretch Str stretch code towns like where's stretch code town already like all you're all you're adding is wiring and that's on the electrician you know there are only 50 towns in the state that are not that have that used the base coat it's exceptionally rare So part of the table setting is just know every three years the building code gets updated yeah and over time uh it's become you know it it supports energy effici see more and more and this is where we are yeah so if you haven't looked at it in a long time it might surprise you and and again grandfather because you have a house with the it doesn't mean you have to do anything yeah I would I'm in a leaky house I would prefer to live in a house that was built to a contemporary code yeah yeah cool okay well this was I I think this was good to review any other stuff before going into this conversation Nate just real quick um you know we had it on the calendar uh to meet with select board tomorrow but they do not have a scheduled meeting so I think we're going straight into town meeting wait really I I was on the town calendar that's uh that's so weird that's a mistake then see there's yeah fincom at 6:30 oh it's that that's the meeting oh it's 6:30 okay yeah Town budget okay it's I mean I I think the fincom is the lead because traditionally they go over the budget I I would have assumed that select board would have posted as well unless Becky knew that you know you know they didn't have a quorum um but that only means one person showing up two people is a quorum for them um so so that's a I mean again like this goes back to how we opened the meeting this warrant article has nothing to do with the budget doesn't have to do with revenues so but will they they will perhaps discuss this article yeah so this is I mean it gets back to where we started which is you know I'll say being recorded I don't think Becky fully understands what this is about um so you know that she sent that message to the fincom that they had a vote number one but you know I had asked her for us for the select board to do a presentation and it was originally scheduled on April 8th um you know with the select board doing it and then we agreed that we would show up and talk about it um and then they cancelled that and I think part of the problem is that it's just unclear you know so they bundled it in and now it's it's not really a budget conversation tomorrow it's a pre- toown meeting you have questions warrant article discussion um but my sense is that people were coming primarily for the budget and were an add-on so it's it's Troublesome the fact that I would have liked to have it called out specifically so people could show up and if if they had questions so I don't think it's going to be highly effective but it could it can be highly effective in terms of educating the fincom and since they technically voted against it that's not a bad thing so so I see that you have us as a meeting at 5:30 an hour ahead um that I'm just I just cancel it I yeah uh I should change it well I don't know if I can change the time but um concurrent with the fin originally originally I think it was set for 5:30 so that and I I forgot to change the time but when they originally invited us I think it was 5:30 um so we should just show up when the fincom meeting starts and then they'll call us to order okay so you know yeah I don't I don't think I'm going to be able to make it for tomorrow that's great then we don't have a Forum so then we don't even have to worry about posting it yeah yeah no that's it's no big it's no big deal I aim to please that's all and it means to be a meeting only if we're gonna deliberate and we're not so yeah no not a problem yeah I think it's totally fine um and then if the time is off it really is irrelevant because we're just going to show up and I mean I I do think us since I'm not sure who will be in the audience and who will have questions really it is a good time to sort of talk to the fincom to make sure that that those folks understand um what it is because it might come up at town meeting and if they can say in front of town meeting that they' they understand it differently now that would be convenient Gail I have submitted a question to the moderator for tomorrow's meeting and that is concerning the um expense limits in the revolving fund which lists srex for 30,000 a year expenses and my question is why in the world would srex have an expense it's an income generator right and in addition where in the world do we have srex in town our installations are old enough even if they had them at the beginning they certainly expired by now and my question is my my guess is that they were not entitled to srex when they were installed so that's a non question for the fincom tomorrow so is it also is it possible that they're purchasing srex as like an offset or something like that who knows yeah what what expense could there be for srex if we had yeah and and it it'd be handy for us to know well let me move us on just because we should keep it oh we don't have to worry about the select board timing but we'll keep it short anyway so is this are we good I think the only thing I have to do is I have to get that now that we're okay with that hand out I just have to get it printed at Town Hall so I will do that um good question um do we also plan to H have available at least the FAQ which has like it has information about you know do I need to cut down trees to meet the solar requirement you know things of interest for sure to people yeah um do you do you recall how many pages that is it's a two-pager so it' be single double-sided single handout yeah I'll just do that too okay I'll do both of them and uh I'll go up to town hall to maybe tomorrow and get that done and Nate brought up brought the language up to date on that so oh great cool thank you so I should is and the so the link that's on our page links to the updated version is that what you're saying I reviewed it and I think it looks good okay cool great well you know it's always good to be prepared and who knows maybe it'll just smoothly sail through um because there's other things people can be agitated about yeah um so the other stuff in terms of updates these are both interesting so the select board application for an EV charger um I was pretty sure when Eric came to our meeting a couple months ago that he said it was a mood point because they withdrew yeah the offer yeah and and then I might have cced all of you on the response to Becky and the S board and she wrote me and said where' you get the information from that it was withdrawn I said from Eric and she went back and apparently it's still alive and well so I don't I would I would ask her for a source for that because when we looked online it had an expiration date of December 31st 2023 it's on tonight's select board agenda 640 okay your proposal from Livingston update there you go okay stay tuned yeah cut this meeting short and let's go okay yeah and I will say you know when Eric conveyed to me I'm guessing he might have conveyed to you Gail as well but that he you know he missed the meeting where gaale suggested to us that that might not be a priority for us to move on and I you know Eric followed up and said I'm sorry I missed the meeting what' you guys aside I told him just I summarized but I told him to watch the the video and he and he did and he agreed with Gail and us and he said you know thinking about it that way it makes total sense not to prioritize it so you know who knows where it'll go but I think at least on onethird of the select board is in agreement with our evaluation at this point so I'll put in the minutes that it's going to be discussed at tonight's select board meeting great that's perfect um and then the other issue is I got an email from Becky four days ago um which I might have I think did I forward to you all about the library in the letter so she wanted to get a support letter from eak um for the for Library installation of solar and I wrote back and I said in order for us to do that oh yeah we really we need some background um in terms of detail scope Etc um and deadline Library old library or new library new library new library and uh so at this point we don't have enough to go on all that she wrote which I don't even fully understand is they're asking for solar for the library with a lightning pickup truck to act as a battery backup for the library so there do you understand that Nate they actually want a pickup truck well it sounds like a distributed grid to me and I think it's it would be awesome if you could could do that so describe that what that is you stop screen sharing so we can see each other oh I'm so sorry sorry about just this uh this concept of uh um you know pairing solar with battery backup um and you know sort of literally Distributing the grid away from just like transmission lines and instead like uh you know in the C like I don't know how much it costs to get uh you know battery backup for facility like uh the library but but but but a Ford um lightning vehicle um would be uh that' be very it's intriguing to me that's all okay I'm G interrupt of the pickup is a Ford Lightning is that yeah you you could run a building off of one when the power goes out really it's kind of the same thing with the uh the electric buses like that essentially is like a giant generator that you can park anywhere in town so we I mean I think I mean well this is all interesting because yeah I mean we couldn't have written a letter to support this without understanding it number one um I wonder who's going to use the pickup truck like what the purpose who's like we're buying a pickup truck essentially who drive yeah that'd be a town vehicle I would assume so did she send you the application the Grant application I got nothing talk to to Elaine Julio okay yeah I learned more from Nate in the last one minute then the email exchange so and it looks like Jody rodar is trying to join us I didn't see her because we were screen sharing Gail good catch on that I didn't see the participants so but she's not connecting so um if she connects I will apologize for um and I know she wasn't there we did public comment but she might have she might have something she wants to talk to us about um so that so I think I have no idea about the deadline for this letter it might have passed um if we get information from Becky I think it would make sense for us to support it but we definitely need the facts before we do so yeah um I guess there's one or two ways we can proceed one is to just sort of have the committee agree that someone can write the letter assuming that we like the idea or we can just wait till the next month but it's I feel like we should know the information before we actually agree to support it even though it sounds cool um ask Elena because she's the one that least started asking questions about it as if she knew or was involved knew who was going to write it or was involved in the writing and she would certainly know the deadline okay I I'll follow up is it a green communities Grant I have no idea what granted is oh okay I mean I I you know I'd always so the last that I heard basic information needed was was last year when or somewhere somewhere in the last year when we were talking about the the MVP Grant the reason that we ended up what we ended up doing and Becky wrote it all I was just part of an initial conversation was to apply for solar for the library because do would not pay for something that didn't have an existing bid and was speced out and all that kind of stuff um and the library already did because it was part of the bigger process so I believe that the town applied for the MVP grant for that so either we didn't get it or we're we're reapplying to MVP I have that's two guesses based on limited information so we shall see um so I think the the only other substantive stuff we got talk about is for next meeting I just wanted to I think we were going to Nate you're going to do a little research on the climate leaders Community program I think I think it was you or was that correct I'm sorry I didn't hear what you're saying the climate leaders Community program which is the thing that we're trying to get ourselves into but I don't I actually I don't I I read the minutes earlier but um yeah I sent the updated minutes yeah no I saw them I'm just trying to I was going to go look and see if Nate do you remember if you agreed to that or is it me I may have agreed um but I I think uh and I apologize if I uh really did but you know I think um you know this the optin code is a I think a a requirement to be it so there's a you know um you know I think what we I think I do recall what we talked about was using that uh climate leaders framework as a way of thinking about you know the next year uh of activities for this committee right um if that vote um you know if if it's favorable on Saturday um then I think it would it would make a lot of sense to put put effort into into that but I I did not do much homework on that uh so that might make it worthwhile to know if we're GNA use that as a plus for voting know what the climate leaders Community program would how that would benefit us yeah I think that's a selling point so basically we have all the like the next thing is if we adopt the specialized code then it's developing a municipal decarbonization road map which the um they will like we just need to write a letter saying that we intend to apply for this program and then the um I think the what organization will all they they'll provide us like a liaison that will help us build this road map okay um so it's so it's going to be assisted um yeah so we provide a letter of intent and they will provide a consultant the CLC will provide a consultant to assist us with the developing of the decarbonization road map so really I think it starts after specialized code passes if it does two thoughts on that one is I'm sort of feeling that we have a point person on this Isaac um I'll let you P it there for a minute but it also I it feels very much like the MVP plan process so yeah with the municipal vulnerability preparedness I had a write uh some policy thing um that the select board then signed off on and then we ended up applying for for planning money because and then we got Consulting money and we got someone who is a consultant I'm forgetting from where to walk us through the whole like Community engagement prioritization list for MVP so I think it's very similar where you know once you get in they've got a prev vetted group of people who are Consultants who then work with the town and walking through whatever the process is and then ultimately once you get the plan the next step not that anyone's there yet will be being able to apply for Action grants just like MVP action grants G and one of the the things that we come up against is that there is not a grant for the planning so how to even do the Consulting work you can't get a grant for the Consulting planning so this would buy that into US yeah well I think provides yeah yeah they I mean it's what I think they've ended up doing is rather than giving towns money to go find the consultant you get approved and then you what you do is you pick your cons they provide yeah yeah perfect perfect yeah so I think that would be good Nate I would just really quickly mention that smart solar shutesbury um highlights the role of the opt-in code in climate leaders in their um rally and cry uh for town meeting which I for just cool did you write that Michael um I'm trying to remember I think it's in the thing I put on the on the our web page I think um I wrote some blurb about why it was important I I can't remember where it was it it's I would assume I anyway possibly if either way but yes I mean I think what we talked about is this is the the first step in a process so um you know sense sorry does it make sense in the presentation of the specialized code you know you know outside of you know table you know table setting to say that you know if this past passes this puts us in line to apply to this program that would provide grants that allow us to do the the the frontloading work that we haven't been able to do before and able to actually apply for funding for projects in town the for stuff this Char this committee is charged with yeah yeah yeah totally I mean we don't know the details of what that would look like but I think definitely I mean you articulated very well he yeah any Mak sense so Isaac you willing to take the lead on the climate leaders thing for real sure yeah yeah I me we could we could do that um yeah I think it's just about passing the stretch code and then once that goes one of the notes was we have to find out what that letter entails and I guess I could reach out to Chris Mason and see what what would be required is there a form letter or something like that or is there a previous example of a letter and we can work work within that to submit it and then then get the process moving and figuring out who would be the um the liaison or the um that would work with us cool yeah and I think we wait after just wait to town meetings find out what happens then go from there but that sounds exactly right on yeah thany doie um and then the other two things are on my well no actually CCA status that is on mine I have after town meeting I said I would bug the select board to like follow up on the colonial situation because we want to go forward um so that's on me and then also after town meeting the non-fossil fuel procurement recommendation I was going to work on um so I figure you know Main can start in may on that one maybe bring it to the May meeting and then you know talk about it in June so but definitely CCA because we have to keep the momentum going and there's you know I can appreciate there's a lack of bandwidth going into town meeting but on the far end there there should be a little bit more room to sort of address this so so any other substantive things you all want to bring up before we do minutes minutes okay cool so any we want to move to consider the minutes of what date is that um March 19th 2024 uh I move to consider the minutes of March 19 2024 any second I Second Great And discussion comments edits Etc uh were they edited yeah Isaac sent out something earlier today I think it was today right yes yeah all the all the changes that were recommended by the ecac were adopted okay yeah I found one more which is minor which just you know you can do and um icept it's on the second page and it's like two paragraphs before the minutes were reviewed in the in the minutes and just said fod is actually it's just there's no I it's F FR C okay sure sure okay Franken Regional Council of government okay all right so a fun acronym to know so you can impress your friends oh baby yeah cocktail party but would you send me that Isaac and I'll yeah I'll send that again yeah okay great thanks okay so hearing no other edits what do we vote on this baby Gail how do you vote hi hi how do you vote I Nate I and I'm an i unanimously approved Isaac thank you for taking them you're welcome yeah and uh so I think we're actually four minutes ahead love it um Gil are you gonna go to the select board meeting and listen absolutely okay so maybe we'll find out what happened at 640 when they talk about the EV charger situation and then do we have a meeting for May set up we we don't we should do that let's see um great question so uh let's see I would think probably what ah the 14th or the 21st it looks like the 21st I can't do but the 14th is good for me does that how does that work for you all 14th is my birthday oh can't do that how about the how about the 28th 28th let me take a look here on my home calendar 28th uh yeah that looks good to me Dale are we at 5:30 we can do whatever we want because hockey season is over but Isaac you had some time limits right yeah I mean so Tuesdays my wife tries to do a craft night and um you know if we do it at 500 or 5:30 that's a little bit more helpful cuz you know yeah okay what's St what St at 5:00 and just sort of five o'clock yeah on on May 28th cool sounds sounds good that was easy okay someone want to move to a journ all in favor say I no no one moved yet I make a motion to during the meeting and who's seconding second okay now no discussion I'm assuming okay Gail how do you vote hi Isaac hi heate hi I'm and I we are adjourned excellent see you all on Saturday all right see you guys thank you for you bye