##VIDEO ID:0u-y-GfeAn0## e e e e e e e e e for I'm just shutting the door because the zoom thing sorry e e e e e e e hi Beth hi Becky I gotta go get my computer glasses I'll be right back e e for Becky you can turn it over to me if you want did you w to make me host or whatever I'm the I'm the one who uh I had my volume off I couldn't hear you oh I just said you you can turn it over to me if you want to make me host and you don't have to stick around I guess too bad about doc I know yeah um he feels bad about it it just um Turned out to he it was a lot different than he thought I I think I really threw him with um anyway he's more of a PC guy and he was not yeah and I think he thought the Mac was going to be more intuitive and it wasn't and it was kind of hanging them up but it would have we didn't figure that out quick enough so all right so you're going to advertise you you did you already advertise it or I haven't yet I'm working on getting it on um the valley job Valley work it's not it's Valley jobs I think um it's a site that Grace gave me that amrest uses so I'm hopeful we're going to get it up on there um tomorrow if I can't figure it out tonight okay so stay positive yeah I'm gonna have a zoom with Carrie like beginning of next week just just to be able to figure out doing the legal ads and the posting and taking in fees and all that stuff that I'm sure she had shown to Doc but I I've never done that stuff so we're just gonna talk a little bit about it so okay and I I I'll help where I can too Beth we'll get through this okay all right thank you bye bye you made me host right no yes I did okay yeah I'm gonna stick around for a little bit okay sounds good didn't know what the timing was going to be with um a couple of the things so I'll just stick around for a little bit okay sounds good thank you thank you on all right I see Bob I see Jan I don't see Scott yet all right well we have uh we have Quorum so I'm gonna open the meeting uh it's 7 pm on August 15 I'm calling this meeting of the shutesbury Conservation Commission to order this meeting is being recorded Miriam you have your hand up hi Beth thanks um before you dive into your um agenda I see that later in the agenda you have site visits scheduling and I was wondering if the commission would be willing to make a a decision so I don't have to stay for the whole meeting about if it's going to require a site visit and maybe we could schedule it um for my small project permit um yeah so we just we lost our clerk so Carrie was leaving and then we had uh doc came in for a little bit but he didn't really stick around I guess Jan and Bob might not know that yet but doc didn't stick with the job um so there's all kinds of stuff going on just in terms of getting things onto agendas um so you're small permit now a small permit I believe doesn't need a legal ad and a butter notification Mariam we probably know this better than the rest of us it doesn't require it doesn't require public hearing um it does not necessarily even require a site visit that's at the discretion of the commission and um I just sent an email um to the commission shortly before the meeting started and um in Le of a site visit I offered um to provide photographs of the proposed work sites the commission looked at our property last October for an RDA and um we have a professional delineation that's current and a uh engineer stamped um survey of the site which I provided in the applications so um and the Wetland delineation report should be on file with our for our property all right so because if there is no legal ad required oh Bob you have your hand up I'm sorry to be interrupt I was just curious what what distance is the project uh if you have a survey what what is the distance from the project to the Wetland well there's two parts of it uh the front of the house and the back of the house there's a very small area of demolition work in the rear of the house that's probably 95 ft from the Wetland and between the Wetland and that project area is our house so our house is a physical barri for any runoff and then there's a large 75 ft of landscape lawn and Gardens before you get to the Wetland that's so it's uh and that's probably only about four square feet of soil disturbance because it's just demolishing a deck and converting it to a native plant garden that we're not rebuilding the deck so I I don't mind mean to interrup the front of the the front of the house is um it's about 7 fet yeah um I don't mean to interrupt but we just we have such a full agenda tonight and lots of stuff to talk about um we have we have a meeting next Thursday on the 22nd and if there's no legal ad required or anything or a butter notification we can easily throw this uh discussion onto that uh agenda I know it's not an actual public hearing but I still feel like it's a project and you you submit it an application with plans and stuff and I think it would be good for you to share that stuff with us and talk about it at another meeting then tonight because tonight we're really booked up um no I was just ask about a site visit Beth yeah and so I if you know Jan and Bob what do you think I'm I'm actually okay with not doing a site visit I have been to to Miriam's house two times and seen the whole yard and I also you know saw the map that she provided with this application and whatnot so I'm okay with out of sight visit what do you guys think yeah just speaking for myself um projects that are small in scope that uh don't have a direct conduit to a resource area as this has been described with the house as a barrier between resource area and almost being at the edge of our jurisdiction it's 95 ft in our jurisdiction 100 feet I I I think it would be not necessary to do a a site visit Jan how do you feel sure I'm okay with that all right so no site visit miam but I will put you on the agenda for next week and I'll let you know what time thank you and I I did ask for some clarification about the Fe question right can I can get back to you about that too okay thank you you always move the camera all right so yeah doc um didn't stick around so Carrie's helping a little bit um doc did agree to write up tonight's minutes which was nice of him but he's he's not actually at the meeting but he's going to uh just write up the minutes based on the recording um and Carrie is still willing a bit to catch up with some of the old minutes and I think just help a little bit with uh some of the administrative stuff as much as she can um and I don't know how much have you caught when Becky was on the meeting beginning of the meeting she's posting the position um as of tomorrow on on her usual places and then some new job listing that she heard about so hopefully we get somebody sooner than later that can help with all this stuff um but anyway that's the update on that and I'm actually meeting with Carrie probably on Tuesday um to just for me to learn how to post things and how to do where where the legal ad templates are and a few of the other things that she she had been doing and we'll just have to do for a couple weeks so um speaking of that in terms of minutes for like next week's meeting um I guess I'm kind are reaching out to you guys again for anybody who volun would volunteer to um take notes and then do them don't worry about it I can do that again you'll do that again thank you hopefully it won't be too many meetings before we get someone Thanks Jen but tonight's covered so no worries all right so the first thing on our agenda is minutes um we've got the minutes of October 12 2023 that was a while ago and June 27th 2024 uh Scott Scott's not here is he I think he's coming later because Bob I doubt you can probably neither one of you can vote on the October 12th 2024 minut yeah not familiar with it nor have I I seen the uh video so no I can't Scott's here Scott to Scott here hey Scott um Jan you also probably were not here in October 20 2023 definitely now all right so mention Beth that you can people can vote on minutes even if they aren't weren't there which I I had a conversation with her I'd never heard that but she said that is true do they need to listen to the recording or look at the read through the minutes um just read through the minutes okay so we'll have to just put off the October 2023 ones and and we'll get you I'll send you guys those and we'll vote on them at the next meeting okay but I think everybody's had a chance to look at the June 27th um minutes uh anybody have any comments on those nope okay okay I need a motion to approve the June 27th 2024 minutes I so move to approved to June minutes I'll second second all right Rowan hi Douglas hi con hi and Wilson hi great um Scott I think you missed in the beginning um doc prune did not stick around very long so we don't have a clerk right now that's not good I know it's not good Becky's um gonna uh issue a a job whatever yeah he's gonna advertise the job tomorrow or has a little bit already he going to do it on a new uh new place tomorrow so hopefully we'll get response relatively soon from somebody um but meanwhile we'll just try to do things I'm gonna meet with Carrie next week to just go over some stuff she was doing and Jan has offered to do minutes for a little bit tonight Doc is actually going to do the minutes from the recording but starting with our me our meeting next week Jan offered to do minutes for a little bit so thank you J yeah but I'll have to learn how to do the legal ads and the posting and the fees and everything else but we'll see how that goes um anyway all right so next on the agenda I want to move up the discussion about the new um conservation commissioner just because um Tom seford who is is here on the call is going to a different meeting a little bit later tonight so tonight all we at our last meeting we had both the people who are interested in being on the commission talk to us a little bit which was great um and so tonight I think we just want to discuss and vote on uh who we want to recommend to the select board for our new commissioner the two people who are interested are Tom sefor and Todd um titchen I'm not sure how to say his last name t Tian um and we like I said we got to meet them both last week um the process will be we will vote tonight make a recommendation to the select board and then the select board is going to vote on it next Thursday the 22nd um which will be great because uh they'll be voting at 5:30 or 6 and so whoever the person is could actually attend our meeting next week um so do we have any discussion on the two folks that presented to us that are last meeting anybody have any comments I'd like to say I I think we're lucky we had two very good candidates uh come forward absolutely yeah it's so great to have keep having people who are interested on being on the Conservation Commission it's it's really um wonderful from such a small little town can I I I would Echo what Bob said and let me just ask a question Madam chair on process here do we is it that we are to refer the names of anyone that we think could we refer both names are we to refer only one name I I believe the select board makes the decision do they not on or how does that work I'm just trying to remember process yeah they they make the final decision and they can decide anything that they want but they asked for a recommendation from us because this is somebody who's going to be joining our group so they they want to know or it's helpful to them if we recommend somebody and there's only one position open so I I do think we you know should just make a recommendation for them because otherwise then otherwise they don't know you know they could go either way without really knowing what we want and um it's kind of our opportunity to to just give a name or whatever so okay thank you yeah any thoughts on anything I mean I guess my only thought is that and Tom mentioned in mentioned it himself that he is already on the planning board and he's on the storm water task force which often meets on Thursdays they seem to maybe be doing it the uh what the is the the third Thursday and we meet the second and the fourth and today happens to be the third Thursday and so the meetings are conflicting that's where Tom's going at 7:30 right Tom going to the storm water task force so um you know I guess I feel like it's good to give lots of people opportunity to be on committees and Boards in the town um and I don't believe Todd is on any other committees so I guess I throw out that I thought Todd might might be a better recommendation but I hear want to hear what other people are thinking I guess I uh I I I agree with West been shared I I think either either candidate would would serve they would be Town very well and so I um I do think you know the Tom has shown up for many meetings and has you know shown demonstrated interest in the Conservation Commission over I think the the whole time I've served on the commission I think Tom's been here and involved in the T meetings and has always had thoughtful input so I um you know if it I I guess I'm not sure from u i I hear what you're saying that that the conflict would be a problematic and but I I don't know where Tom would be on you know trying to resolve that conflict if we had an opportunity for both and so um I maybe I Tom may have already made his commitments to the other other boards and it's a conflict and in that case I would agree with you that um finding another candidate who didn't have those same conflicts would be desirable um that being said I my you know Tomas has his hand up yeah we can ask him let's ask Tom thank you um I wasn't sure if it was appropriate for me to contribute um I was hoping that uh Todd would be here uh thank you everyone who said such nice things already by the way um because I also agree well it's not fair for me to say about myself but that there are good candidates on the table right now um so if Todd were here I was hoping to find out from him and I don't want anyone to speak for him whether he's really truly sure he can commit to doing this for a couple of years and whatnot because that's how I look at it it's really like what like a three-year commitment and um if he were able to say that that would be enough for me to say at this moment thank you for like just the honor of considering me and everything and let him you know be a recommendation that you're comfortable with that so he's not here but I I'm comfortable assuming that he's taken that into account already um so would and I I just wish to spare anyone having to go into territory they don't really need to tonight about evaluating things so I I guess I would call it I will withdraw my um my uh candidacy I don't know the right word sorry words are failing me um because it does seem to be a good situation so can I offer that please yeah sure you want to you don't you know certainly don't have to um I think I think both you guys were both wonderful candidates and I just think you know because of that and thanks for saying that you know I can't judge myself but um you know I I think it's a so-called win-win in a way or no loss and um I do have other things that I'm really excited about doing uh starting at 7:30 tonight for the other committee which has a lot of related work to the concom anyway as Bob can ATT test being on that commit or a task force excuse me at 7:30 as well so um yeah uh I only wish Todd were here so I could just have his like sort of face nod like yeah I'm with you Tom I understand what you mean um but I'm comfortable assuming that so uh with thanks again I'm just going to bow out and I hope I didn't um cause too much time usage up to now on your part considering the whole great I I I love your interest in the Conservation Commission be around you know yes there always the future too so I'm sure Bob will update us on the task force but anytime time that you I'm very interested in what they're going to be doing and anytime you want to come and share things with the commission that would be great cool okay so um I'm actually even going to go off video right now if that's okay with you all because it's only 10 minutes to my next task force and an all honesty I might just B out around 7:25 sure and Tom personal favor if you could just tell them because of a conflict I will be late to that meeting yeah okay I'll mention that so thank you again all of you and uh I'll say good night but I might just still watch for a few more minutes while I'm thank you so much official nod but feel good about that take care okay thanks you too right all right so um if everybody's in agreement with that nobody has any concerns then we just we need a motion to um vote to recommend to the select board that Todd to recommend Todd Tien as uh the conservation commissioner hearing all that I recommend Todd titchen for the vacant position I'll second all right con hi Douglas hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi yay okay great Tom gave us the thumbs up all right now um we're going to talk a little bit about the Dudleyville Dam emergency c um first we need to ratify it I emailed it to you guys have y all you all had a chance to look it over Okay so let's vote to ratify I need a motion to ratify the emergency CT for the Dudleyville pond dam construction Madam chair just a just a brief discussion if I may um sure I I I is it okay okay may I continue yeah um yeah I I just wanted to say that um with with Dam removals it's important to um uh make sure it's an emergency and not just something that's convenient um in this particular case we had two Engineers saying that uh this was in fact an an emergency so I feel really good about uh uh I'm issuing an emergency sert on this and I I also found your uh comments and your um conditions very thoughtful so um uh I guess conclusion there's nothing more to add I I would make recommendation that we ratify the emergency shirt and um issue that order or thank you special conditions great second I second the motion right Douglas hi Rowan hi Khan hi and Wilson hi um okay so I think you probably all saw um we just got a email from Susie from De that they want to start Monday so be ready Jan for some site visits they want to start Monday but the weather is not looking so good I think we're supposed to start getting some rain on Sunday maybe Sunday Monday Tuesday um so they'll let us know if they actually do that actually the most recent email said they wanted to move ahead with Monday and um they were asking for 10: a.m. on Tuesday for aosion control inspection can you do that Chan yes I changed my oil change appointment excellent excellent right well I hope I hope that it all works out that they still can do that that it doesn't rain too much on Monday um so that is the goal and then they sent us the uh erosion sedimentation planat management plan um I looked through it and it it all looked it all looked fine to me most of it's from suco which is the contractor which is typically who puts together a water man the actual water manager plan um and it all it all looked fine to me did did you guys get a chance to look at it I I did it was well crafted um I've uh done two other dams that happen to be uh done by some suco removal tamam removals and they are an excellent group I'm happy for their involvement yeah now I've worked with them too they for damn demolition they are the ones um um okay so we don't really need to vote on that that was a condition that was uh you know in the emergency start that that we wanted to look at that plan um so they provided it we looked at it we reviewed it we have no comments basically to um to share with them so but we don't really need to vote to approve it or anything like that all right so good I think we're done with that item then all right so so if if it happens Jan let us know how it goes on Tuesday yeah I mean and if you guys if I can't go because I have to be at work Tuesday morning but if Bob or Scott want to go 10: am Tuesday it's exciting when they they roll out that excavator and they take away that first hunk of the dam it uh it is quite dramatic and I I I may try and make that I me maybe I'll head down there Tuesday after work just to see where it's at cool well I think yeah so 10: a.m. would just be erosion control inspection who knows if Tuesday they'll actually start digging and not I'm not sure we'll see um all right um so next on the agenda is site visit updates and Jan's been doing a great job um setting up site visits and we've gone on a lot of them I feel like in the last two weeks and um she's been doing the site visit form so Jan want to update us okay so we went to see uh 678 Pratt Corner Road where tree removal was the idea and we got a curtain drain added to the thought process and I think we're expecting uh an RDA on that next time Beth yeah I think you guys probably all got copies of the RDA in your email and it's going to be on our agenda for next week yeah there's a lot of mushy ground around this house and some of the trees are in it so that was part of the consideration okay the next one was 30 suer Mountain Road that was a very pretty location they wanted to know if they could build a carport near the conservation lands uh didn't seem to be any issues it was Far Enough From Any wetlands and uh apparently we don't have to worry about the fact that it was 10t from the conservation lands the next one was 16 Cornwell Road um K wants to build a garage he was plenty of distance away from anything there was no Wetland anywhere nearby also a beautiful sheets fa location uh the next one was 66 lever at Road the new library Bob and I uh went I should have given everybody credit for the other ones too but Bob and I went out to this one in a deluge and uh they had uh very nice erosion controls already in place for the construction I haven't gone by since I don't know if anybody hasn't seen whether they're cutting trees down and stuff yet well the trees are down yeah yeah they took all the trees down well that was the next step okay uh the next one was 585 wendle Road whim LaVine wanted to know if he could build an addition uh there was no Wetlands anywhere near his house so absolutely but we got a history lesson there which was certainly entertaining and today we went with Steve Sullivan to have a look around uh at the erosion controls that were left over from the Calvert project and most of them can be removed he had some ideas about restraining some storm water runoff that has become apparent since the job was completed so we'll be hearing more about that that is thank you that was great keep it's been fun to go to a lot of these places get all over shets Barry um all right so next on our agenda yep past 7:15 um so 678 Pratt Corner Road Jan just mentioned that we did the site visit um unfortunately due to our issues with our our land use clerk uh the legal ad actually did not get in for tonight's meeting for 678 PR Corner Road so that project's being moved to our meeting um next week so August 22nd uh I think I said 7:15 let me see yeah it's going to be 7:15 August 22nd So for anybody in the uh public who's here for 678 crack Corner Road that hearing has been moved to next Thursday August 22nd at 7:15 p.m. all right all right I see Mark is here so the next thing on our agenda is yeah the conservation easement parcel uh map 8 parcel 151 and Mark waitman here is to here to describe that to us hi folks nice to meet yall um I was awarded an open space uh special permit from the planning board several months ago as well as a couple of special permits from the zba uh to allow us not to cut down a lot of trees to be able to have access to the property through a so we could do it through an existing Woods Road um we have a 4 acre um building envelope none of that is in any any Wetland area uh but there is uh 18 Acres total on the land just over 18 Acres with just under four acres being the building envelope the rest is uh has to be put into a conservation restriction and that has to be held by a governmental agency or a nonprofit and because it's only 18 Acres I say 18 I think it's a lot you know it's a lot of land to me but because it's only 18 Acres I'm having a difficult time finding someone kestral trust or one of those that would like to take it on um the Conservation Commission in this town has my knowledge minimal knowledge has not done a or accepted a conservation restriction on behalf of somebody in town but the planning board said uh they sort of a newer planning or Conservation Commission and to bring it to folks to see it be something of interest uh whether you would handle the conservation restriction and be the authority to uh oversee it to make sure the Restriction is not violated um the Restriction is Mass General law 184 section 31 through 33 that describes uh what is allowed on the land such as farming is allowed to continue um some lumbering is allowed to continue um but mostly it's just residential use on that four acres and the rest is um is not touched by for much of anything except for U making sure that the um plants trees and animals that are there are are left and conserved so I I have a a call into their email into the planning board as well asking them on the last two Open Space special permits I think there only been three in shoots bra that have been awarded on the last two those people had to find conservation somebody to hold their conservation restrictions as well so I'm waiting to hear back from them to see if they can tell me who those or who that entity was that took the con a restriction in case you folks um have no interest in doing this but I'm hoping that possibly you might um I think that there's I was rereading the information from one at Mass General uh Mass General law 184 32 is the enforcement and basically it says the Restriction may be enforced um by several different um methods and shall entitle representatives of holder which would be the town to enter the land in a reasonable Manner and at reasonable times to assure compliance so I think that um being right in town that that would make it a lot simpler and it would happen probably more regularly than it would happen if it was like the Cel trust or somewhere that wasn't in town um I would expect there should be some sort of I don't know if you're set up for this but some sort of fee paid by the owner of the land when the town goes to inspect um I think in my discussion of the planning board they said something about once a year was pretty standard I mean you know obviously lot nothing's happening over there but just to assure this nothing nothing has happened um going in once a year and taking a look so um it it wouldn't take a lot of time um to be able to do it I don't think it's a huge commitment on the on the Conservation Commission side it would be something it' be great for um for shutesbury to have that option to be able to have this overseen by folks so that's my plea all right um I know I saw um I know I saw the map with the conservation area marked on it did you actually send us the conservation restriction with the enforcement and stuff okay I just can't remember no I didn't send the uh M General law but you can look it up it's it's 184 sections 31 through 33 um it's it's pretty straightforward I mean there's not a lot in there except for um it explains to you what you can and can't do on the land and then in um in 32 it does explain to you how you can enforce I was amazed at how I mean it's a little it's wordy because they're talking about restrictions for housing and um you know subsidized housing and other different restrictions that are being um explained in this chapter 184 and these two or these three sections so it's a little wordy but if you look at just the conservation restriction areas it it okay so this isn't like a conservation restriction that an actual document sometimes there's an actual document written up that's a conservation restriction but this sounds like it's just the conservation restriction under the law that was required due to your subdivision yeah the way that yeah the yeah yeah I mean Technic technically it's not a subdivision they they made it very clear to me this it's not a subdivision I just have that HD into my head so many times I have to say it um in the special permit it it does describe uh let's see try and give you as little as possible here no I'm going to read the whole paragraph no building permits or a curb cut permit for conserv or construction of a dwelling or other structures within the building lot or Preparation or construction of the driveway shall be applied for or issued until the applicant has recorded a conservation restriction for the conservation lot in compliance with Master law 184 uh and so and so 31 and 33 through through 33 so I think that what's looking for is uh for me to create a restriction based on these laws and it's basically just going to say you know we're following the laws of masteral law 31 through 33 and then that would be recorded I already did stick my uh which I mentioned to Beth earlier uh it does say that I'm not supposed to get a curb cut until this is recorded and I I thought I was doing the right thing by moving forward with trying to do the things the planning board has asked to be done so I went for a curb cut uh got the curb cut and then I called the or uh emailed the DPW after my last planning board meeting and said I'll have them destroy the curb cut you know information will go back for it when I need it so that's been taken off the books and and back in the good graces of the planning board they understood that I was just trying to clean up the driveway and do what they had asked but uh not supposed to get a curb cut until I have this thing recorded So I was going to let a buyer um record this because I figured they might have a you know um entity they rather work with but I don't think it's that easy to find one after my searching and from what the planning board has told me they've had people go through in the past trying to find one so I'm going to take care of it I also have just two years after the approval that means I've got like a year and a half left to uh put the Restriction in place but I'd rather get it done and um again that's it seems like this would be a nice fit being able to have the town do it but that's up to you folks all right um Scott do you have any comments on that and uh since you're our conservation land guy yeah I Mark thir made you thank you for sending that I we we do have conservation easement restrictions that we do monitor every year here in town and so I I do I appreciate um your request of the Conservation Commission where you are and um I do think that this could be brought into the workload I I also appreciate that the one thing I don't think we have done very well is uh you know set up a process by where where we would do those inspections and I think we have some that we've we've contracted to do to make sure that they're done I think um that's still work for the Conservation Commission to consider if we want to um to take on additional resp responsibilities and um so that was the one part I think I had followup to your request is and and I'm not sure if it's a question for you or or others here on on the commission but um what that may look like um for to help offset the costs of going out and if we were to contract this um for inspections to I think they're relative fees but I that's the only question that I think we would need to do a little bit more work on um what was your timeline for this in terms of a decision Mark um I've had a lot of interest in the property so it it could go in a deposit sometime um who knows when I had somebody up there yesterday farmer actually was looking to uh have goats and sheep which I thought was pretty cool because that would go back to what it was used for 100 years ago um the the stone walls are still there so uh borrowing any purchased by somebody else uh I've got a year and a half approximately year and a half to get it done so I you know the sooner the better for me I would like to get it taken care of but you have time to discuss it and have another meeting if you need to and I think what you said is a a really good point is that um is the town actually going to go out and walk it you know somebody from the Conservation Commission going to actually walk it once a year and take a look or are you going to hire some sort of entity that will take care of all your conservation restriction easements and do them all at once I'm sure it's going to be a pretty nominal fee it won't take a lot of time obviously to to do something like that so either way is fine with me and um yeah it's in your time frame okay um oh Bob yeah I uh I think um having dealt dealt with similar cases I think um uh the town would be a good candidate for this particular conservation restriction I do like the idea of having a a fee uh which would allow if just in case the commission couldn't make it a00 doll would hire a the commission could hire an agent or Wetland scientist to walk the property just to see that everything is compliant there hasn't been a casino built over the previous year um and uh or something that is new and not allowed under the Restriction right so um that would that would be my preference obviously I haven't seen the document yet but I just kind of wanted to to chime in on that I think that sounds great I think we're on the same page and uh you know there's fees for everything else you know I mean all inspections through other departments and the rest it seems like it makes sense that there should be some sort of fee to to cover your time or you Bob brings up a really good point that if you folks for whatever reason don't have the time or feel that you um or you feel you want to put in somebody else's hands there should be some way to pay them so that obviously should come out a land owner which is me at this point I have no problem with that at all nominal of course all right so at this point so you have a year and a half to put this together and but you're you're sort of looking for some kind of a commitment from us at this point so that so that as you put this together you put us in basically as as the entity who's going to oversee yeah I think that uh you know we can take it one step at a time we've had a good respon response tonight from the board members from two of you at least and that um I think we should just um move forward in a positive way without making a commitment yet you don't have to make that commitment yet I'll talk to my lawyer about putting together the actual restriction that's going to be recorded in the registry of deeds I have a feeling that it's going to be you know a real short one paragraph we're going to follow Mass General law and um whatever you know legal ease has to be put in there and uh I'll come back and present that to the board and see if um that meets your criteria for the or matches the restrictions you currently have and then uh we can go from there that sounds great I'm also wondering if if anybody's interested in the site visit to go to go look at it that might be what do you guys think that would be great if that W to work out Mark oh I love walking that land anytime it's gorgeous piece yeah all right well we'll we'll uh we'll Jan is our site visit person she can maybe you guys can set up a time and and see if we can find a time that Scott especially can make it that'd be great Jan if you can just email me that'd be fantastic and uh we'll put something together awesome okay thanks for your time I really appreciate it sure thanks for coming yeah thank you have a good night good night all right um so next on the agenda is 31 Lake View but uh I don't see I don't think he's here the lawyer um asked if uh he asked if he needed to be here before 8 because he was doing something I don't think he's here no um so we are yeah I think I want to wait for the lawyer because I because I told him that that that we probably wouldn't get to it till 8 and he was busy so I think I may do something else on the agenda and then go back to that yeah okay thanks sure um all right so then the other thing on our agenda we've got is the order conditions for lowering Lake wola um Andrian you're here Adrian sorry having a rough night yes I'm here no problem thank you so can I just give a little quick so I I met with Becky and Adrien um just and here's Becky too to to talk about the order conditions for lowering the lake um and they're looking um for an extension while they continue to to do work that they need to do to submit a new notice of intent to kind of basically update our order conditions so with that in um Adrien great thank you yes I'm Adrien dunk from GZA um I know so tonight is not an official extension request we have not submitted the necessary Wetland protection act form but we wanted to just discuss with you all um before submitting that request um kind of the the sense of the commission so GZA has been retained by the town to to do both some Dam engineering work um at the dam and then also to rep permit the annual winter draw down um we know that you have a currently valid order of conditions it was issued in 2018 as a five-year order and then because of covid with the emergency order the extension or the expiration date told and So currently it's set to expire in January 2025 right in the middle of the draw down um so we have been you know working with the town going through some historic records um so that we can work with not just the Conservation Commission but make sure that we are um authorized for a new a new draw down authorization with the chapter 91 office we've been um discussing with natural heritage and so ultimately um some additional engineering studies need to be performed some more coordination with the state agencies needs to be performed um all prior to submitting a new notice of intent um to avoid any laps in authorization or a midwinter refill which would negate the purpose of the draw down for Public Safety and Dam protection um we did want to discuss with you all um your thoughts about issuing an extension to the order of conditions no changes in the in the conditions we're not looking to change the rate the date the timing um so that we can continue to exercise the town can continue to exercise the draw down while we go through these other lengthier review processes um so we would like to ask for a three-year extension with a very fervent hope that we would be back with a new notice of intent before three years but um to avoid being repeatedly on your agenda for smaller incremental extensions as we go um we we would like to ask for a three year okay um I I feel like the the extension um I I feel like the work that they're that they're doing to to produce an noi that really um is a real um update to the old noi and then will be a great Improvement to the old order conditions that's out there I think is very important um so I think an extension is is warranted um I did look at our new bylaw and it it actually says a one-year extension we can allow one-ear extension I think when I might have been talking to you guys we were looking at the regulations which um go a little bit more into longer extensions but under our bylaw it says where we can extend orders of conditions for one year is that GNA impact everything significantly um when we spoke before we thought there could be two threeyear extensions can there be two or three can there be multiple one-year extensions um over time I mean if if it's one year that's what's in your rules that's all we would request um but we might just see you again next year um like I said hope hopefully not but the based on some of our other consultation with the state we may have to complete um a Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act review a meepa review and that can just be a very in-depth environmental review so yeah you know I certainly if we're allowed one year we would like to request one year let me just read through this I just was me find it in the Bogue yeah it has no um it has no restriction on multiple extensions there's nothing in the bylaw about multiple extensions so if we give you a one-year extension now you can come back for another one okay all right great I mean we we hope to work through it all but we can't you know we're you never know Holden to the availability and timing of others so um yeah so in that case we would like to come back to the commission with an extension request for one year okay how do the rest of the Commissioners feel about about that any comments yeah I I just like to say I think probably one year is good and uh it would would perhaps give us emergency to the the requirements for the meepa and other things yeah you never know with meepa um okay any other comments oh so yeah it sounds like our we're all we're all U you know on board for um receiving a extension application okay great we'll put the paperwork together okay great thank you thank you all thanks for coming thanks Becky all right what time is it 52 um I think uh we'll just start our discussion about 31 Lake View Road um Kathy is is your lawyer here no I'm sorry I don't see him here yet yeah because yeah he said he had some till 8 I think 8:00 ah um so he might be a few more minutes um I don't know if you wanna well talk at all introduce introduce your request is um I think his letter kind of speaks for itself and I'm assuming that you've all seen that um basically we're at a point with our project where uh the house is complete we have an occupancy permit um um we wanted to clean this these conditions up um before we apply for a certificate of compliance um so that's the reason for this request for an amended order of conditions um we've pretty much met every other condition that was um that was placed on our project um and our only con uh concern were these last seven conditions that were in perpetuity um I think you'll see when you do the final um post construction visit that we've tried to kind of go above and beyond with plantings and that's one more thing that we're we're trying to connect with our engineer to do an ASB built plan um because we had to make some modifications but I think we've we've gone kind of Beyond in terms of plantings and kind of restoration of the property um I don't know if you've seen the the project it's kind of on a main Dr bag um so a lot of people drive by it pretty regularly um we're pretty proud of it we it it was a rough start because Joe and I both I think were learning um about Wetlands protections and we certainly have we're not experts today by any means but we certainly have learned a lot through the process um and have a greater appreciation if we didn't already have an appreciation for protecting the wetlands um than when we first started with this Pro project so it's just these last um seven in perpetuity conditions that we would like the Conservation Commission to consider waving so that we can get those uh removed from our um deed and then we can move forward with requesting um the certificate of compliance and if you hear snoring it's not Joe it's our dog in the background sorry I is is this your lawyer attorney Martin I'm assuming yes okay H thank you I communicated with you about telling you that I had a prior commitment and said that it would be available and you assured me that would be okay so thank you for that indul yeah yeah we we just started we we just started talking about it so so I think um I think Kathy's uh stole my job uh been a nice summary of their feelings and thoughts on this I did also submit uh a letter to miss McNichols as I was asked to do you're kind of coming and going a little bit huh is this any better in fact you froze is this any better uh I think you froze again okay I'm I can hear myself I can hear you can you hear me now let me let me try maybe it's mine I anyone else having trouble hearing me I can hear you Jim I can hear you yeah I can hear you too okay I'll I'll speak up uh when I first corresponded with the town regarding the Salvador's position with regard to the imper petu restrictions I discussed it with Town representative and then I sent correspondence uh to her uh and in response that uh she asked me to uh communicate with Miss McNichol attorney McNichol uh directly on the issues and to put a a memorandum together to her uh uh and uh we've exchanged correspondence and I last sent a correspondence to her on July 18th uh which I hope everyone received uh I did copy the uh planning department uh at the town and uh the initial request after I submitted the first petition was to address legal concerns and issues in support of our petition and um I have cited the Mass General Law chapter 184 section 23 uh there what's places a restriction on any term uh of a condition uh now section 31 does allow some some restrictions to be uh extended beyond the qualified term but there is a further uh requirement that any condition uh must must uh not be arbitrary and capricious uh and be consistent with Massachusetts law uh the wetlands protection bylaws that the town adopted provides for waivers based on undue hardship the bylaws specifically provide for a waver of a condition to avoid being restrictive of the use of the property so as to uh con so as to not constitute a taking a private property without compensation and that's the fundamental issue here that these restrictions in perpetuity as described by Kathy um are so restrictive that we believe that uh they constitute an unfair and improper taking of their property denying them to use it for the entire time that they would own it or anyone subsequently so it would be a cloud on the title uh going forward uh and uh there's uh no uh no support that uh otherwise would suggest that they should not be uh removed their conditions are 27 28 30 31 32 33 and 34 um and it is in fact denying their use the use of their property in many ways they're overly restrictive there was no uh rationale uh that is uh considered uh by the law to be in support of the imper it conditions uh it was a very aggressive restriction at the time um they're so restrictive that in even in a literal reading that prohibits any activity even if it's temporary so they couldn't rake leaves in that area they couldn't mow their lawn uh they couldn't remove leaves um placing you know a burden on them a restriction on them um and denying them the opportunity to maintain their own personal property to their own personal standards which they want now they made a significant investment in this retirement property and they'd like to keep it up but also be compliant and they've satisfied as I said to the town in my prior correspondence with July 18th that they've satisfied all the other conditions or will satisfy them uh as the when they get the final inspection so um I I'm happy to go into more detail on the legal aspects of it if anybody wants to but the fundamental thing is that uh your bylaws itself permit waivers uh and uh the second thing is that they are I think arbitrary and capricious given the extent and thirdly that they're so onerous as they constitute a taking uh of the property without being compensated and the fourth thing is that it it severely impacts uh the value of their property which to is not allowed to do uh negatively without good cause and and basis so it's um you know I think it's fair and reasonable to ask that these conditions be uh released uh there were lots of conditions placed in the property they've worked very hard to comply with those they and I think um uh it would be only fair and just for the board to do that I'm happy to answer any questions or supplement what I said I'm mindful of your time and but as I say I have submitted uh firei uh analysis to the town thank you for that presentation um Bob you have your hand up oh you're muted you're on mute thank you um I was wondering councelor could you put those up on the screen the uh seven uh conditions that you wish to um have dispens with I wish I was that uh computer fcel you can do it because we lost power where I am and so I'm running off my iPad uh on a battery uh so but thank you best yeah granted I'm a late Comer to this particular property I wasn't here for the the original U issuance of the order but my understanding is the entire entirety of the parcel is in Riverfront resource area is that correct are you are you asking yeah the entire thing is in Riverfront and um quite a lot of it is in buffer zone to a bvw also um I can show the map too did you guys you guys got all this all the stuff too I think sent to you all right so let's see all right so here is can everybody see my screen we can yes thank you all right so this this is the order of conditions y this is the order of conditions that was issued sorry going to scroll down all right so those are the those are the ones in issue but I think oh I hate when this thing hides what I want to click on I think I have the map yeah yeah can you guys see the map I need to zoom out a little bit but and rotate maybe that didn't help all right well it does show the lot and then it shows its location with relation to the the lake yeah so uh so there's also the appendix a that has the and I wonder if I have that in fact I think that's at the bottom of this why don't we just start with that if I can find it sorry here it is okay so here's a map of the site which shows this 1 through 10 is where we had asked for um markers of the no distur herb Zone um and I'll just give a brief review of the here's here's Lake View Road um here is where the house now is this is showing it as proposed but that's the house um this is a raised leech field there's The Sawmill river goes right along here and then there's also a BBW which is marked by these delineation points this is mean high water coming along with those delineation points um so let's see the this says 50 foot Wetland buffer is this line that goes kind of like that and that's to the that's to the Wetland and then somewhere on here is the I think this is the 100 foot Riverfront line so that's just the first hundred of um the riverfront from the s River all right does that give you a good idea Bob yeah yeah so so the entirety of the site is is in the inner riparian the the 100 foot from the edge of the from the edge of the river so to speak yeah as well as a buffer zone yeah there was a house there originally and we we replaced it okay yeah it's a Redevelopment project like Redevelopment correct this this this is not there was a dwelling on this prior to their uh construction yeah all right so now we can go back to those if everybody's done looking that um so yeah I my thought would be that we go through each one of them because um just my first go through of them there are a couple there there's a couple easy ones to just point out are are very legal um and maybe at least those two simple ones we can just talk about tonight um the first one uh no additional net loss of permeable surfaces per is permitted without written approval of the conservation permission well the entire site is really within the 100 feet of the BBW um and also within the first hundred of the riparian um so because in the Wetland protection act the only things in the 100 foot that you could do would be minor activities and there is no minor activity for adding a new um impermeable surface such as a driveway or a sidewalk so no matter what what perme impermeable work they wanted to do on their property they would have to come to the Conservation Commission anyway um and that's kind of covered under number 18 which is right here any other additional activity in areas within the jurisdiction of the commission shall require separate review and approval by the conserv by the commission or its agent so I guess I find number 27 to be a little redundant of number 18 and I think we just leave it in there instead of are going through a process of of removing it from an order of conditions I mean it depends how we go with this but I find that that's a perfectly legal condition um I don't know how do people other people see that I agree yes speaking only for myself I I don't see a problem with it it being mentioned twice yeah on the other hand it it is mentioned twice so it isn't necessary to have here under the perpetuity conditions it's going to be covered if they want to do something they got to have a permit so I could see taking it out and in fact it it's the difference between the four mentioned and this one is this is in the structure of the conditions that is in perpetuity so well this one doesn't say anything about perpetuity no additional net loss is permanent without written approval of the conservation post construction uh it does say perpetuity conditions that's funny it does say in perpetuity conditions which are all of the by I didn't notice that by structure of a condition and legally it means anything under this caption paraph heading is an imp perpetuity condition and you'll notice that um we didn't we didn't uh challenge some of them because for reasons I can get into either but 27 is an imper petu as opposed to the one that says you can come back and do things whatever number that was so I yeah I do think I didn't notice sorry I didn't notice that it was titled that way um you know under our standard conditions we obviously have a post construction conditions section in all of them and I guess this one that got added that it says in perpetuity um so that changes it um I mean what's kind of funny is I mean it is imp perpetuity anyway that they would have to come back forever and ever and ever as long as the Wetland regulations exist well it also means it also could be interpreted to mean which is why it's these are considered a taking that you really can't come back because it's imp perpetuity this condition so that's this Miriam could I make a comment I was trying to raise my hand sorry um yeah you can make a comment yeah I was just gonna make a comment that in drafting these order of conditions which I drafted if you'll notice down below um number 29 upon completion of the project the aant shall conduct contact the commission to arrange a post construction sites well that's obviously not a Perpetual condition that's a post construction condition so you know my interpretation of that heading is that it is both post construction and in perpetuity conditions and the uh language of each condition makes it clear um if it's a a Perpetual condition or continuing condition I think it's clear in the language some of these are not Perpetual obviously I mean obviously you're not going to be always having post Construction visits forever you're going to have one thanks well well number one number 29 we did not uh ask to be modified uh be because of of because I think it is uh something that the my clients didn't really you know weren't really overly concerned about but I think it's also a fair rating to say since this isn't perpetuity uh if they were to do something else they would have to arrange a postc construction site visit which they would have to do so that's why we didn't mind this staying in and we're not asking it to be uh removed um the next just still looking at 27 no additional net law it just also says without written approval of the Conservation Commission um so again it's really just asking them to come back to the Conservation Commission with with any projects that involve um impermeable surfaces I guess I just don't see a problem with that and see that it's a pretty um usual condition in a in in order of conditions why should that that property be burdened with that for imp perpetu yeah speaking again just for myself Bob here um I don't see it as a burden it's more of a reminder uh 10 20 50 years from now there might be a new new owner that wants to do something and then it's got here in the a reminder uh that that this is something that needs to take place but it's in the conditions already but not in the Imp perpetuity condition so it's not that we don't want to have a reminder it's just that we don't want it to be linked to imp perpetuity for whatever reason things could change and so it's an extreme condition for what it's trying to accomplish particularly since it's already in another section I guess isn't it perpetuity that I mean even without saying the word everybody everybody has to abide by the wetlands protection act all going forever and ever until the wetlands protection act disappears so this is simp this isn't putting any extra burden on them at all because all of us for the for until perpetuity if something is in the jurisdiction of the Conservation Commission we have to go back to the Conservation Commission with that you know anybody who has a piece of property that's within 100 ft of a resource area and wants to put some kind of an impermeable surface down has to get approval from the Conservation Commission and and that's will go and that for me that's perpetuity like that's my property is perpetuity because that's the law right now so it's that it's I I I basically I understand a lot of your questions having to do with some of these other conditions but that first one I it just seems like that's the situation for all all of us I mean doesn't doesn't isn't that Bob how doesn't that is that the way you look at it well I I look at it in the light of chapter 184 section 23 that puts a limit on any condition or restriction to through a 30-year period I did recognize that there are some uh there is some leniency or ability to make things in perpetuity or for a specified amount of years um but uh there has to be uh a certain reason to go beyond the statutory period none of that is articulated in here um and uh you know as I said before it's also duplicative of another condition that's in there but I don't you know it's that one just seems more like a reminder to me of like if you do something in the conservation uh jurisdiction you need to go back to the Conservation Commission it doesn't seem to be the same as the others but um okay why don't we why don't we move on we can come back to it if we Scott you have your hand up actually I was gonna suggest maybe we because I I I do think these conditions are also maybe to agree with um with Jan and and I think the other Commissioners I think they are they're already a condition they're already required um before we get into whether or not it's worth taking them out or not because I think it in some ways this is a a distinction without a difference and um but I'm wondering if maybe moving on and talking about some of the other conditions to see if there's anything here worth editing and then we could Circle back back to this question okay Kathy you have your hand up I just wanted to say one brief thing before we move on um I think our issue is not so much that we don't wouldn't want a reminder or wouldn't want a future owner to have a reminder our issue is listing anything in perpetuity is maybe off-putting to a future owner and I think if it's covered in a previous section without calling it an in perpetuity condition that might be a little easier for us to take that's all okay Point Tak um all right so then the other one that I noted that just seemed to be something that uh again I guess you might call it repetition but is something that really should be in there is um number 32 um maintenance or repair uh by the property owner of record or design of the dry Basin for um rooftop runoff and supporting drainage system shall be the responsibility of the applicant and future grantees the design capacity storm water management treatment capacity and structural Integrity of these facilities must be maintained so now I'm gonna scroll everybody watch out go up to the standard conditions that are the state standard conditions from d in the permit which one it was right 19 going up to the order of conditions the first so 19 C which is so these are the standard conditions that the state includes that automatically go into the order conditions from the state so number c 19 C the Lando is responsible for BMP maintenance until the issuing authority is notified that another party has legally assumed responsibility for BMP maintenance prior to requesting a certificate compliance or par of the responsible party shall execute and submit to the issuing authority and operation and uh maintenance compliance statement for the stormw BMP identifying the party responsible for implementing the stormw BMP operation maintenance plan and certifying the following that the OM plan is complete and will be implemented upon receipt the certific compliance future responsible parties shall be notified in writing of their ongoing legal responsibility to operate and maintain the storm water management bmps and implement the storm water pollution prevention again so why why repeat it if it's a requirement exctly it's already in yep it's in there but I just want everybody to see it that again I guess possibly the US listing it in our special conditions was a reminder that it's there and if you read through this I mean this really is is a is talking about if the responsibility moves on to other parties that those parties need to be notified um you know so that involves when you sell the property I mean it it it doesn't say the word perpetuity but it it certainly is talking about some future responsibility for that BMP maintenance um so I just I guess I just wanted to point that out that us restating it on most um is not a it's it's not a crazy thing well again it's a restatement in a in a in a section of the conditions that are labeled in perpetuity you might interpret the D's condition 19c as requiring continuous U notification on a change of ownership but this again is in perpetuity and it does put a cloud on a title because these will be there everyone will have public access to find out about them but as I said before most of the conditions do expire in 30 years 30 years y yeah um and that number 32 design must be maintained the applicant and future grantees so it doesn't necessarily say perpetuity again I it kind of similar language to what the state was saying but Miriam you have your hand up yeah I was just gonna um make a comment that is in my my observation of orders of conditions it's uh pretty common for their to be continuing conditions for the maintenance of bmps um and the purpose of having this additional uh condition also is that when you issue the certificate of compliance it means that um attached to that certificate of compliance you'd be issuing like a partial or you know with continuing conditions so that anybody looking at that certificate of compliance would see attached to it these BMP maintenance requirements otherwise you know you're kind of requiring someone to go back and look at the original order of conditions and look through the fine print in the DP form to understand that there's this requirement so it's kind of um highlighting it and and um making more Salient because um it's important for anybody who is purchasing the BMP property with a PMP be understanding um the need to maintain it I've seen lots of situations with people who bought properties with bmps and they didn't have a clue what what it was and didn't know how to maintain it um so um that I think was part of the rationale for it um I also believe that the regulations that were adopted by the Commission in 2023 talked about continuing conditions for um things like maintenance of bmps and I think the wetlands protection act also make regulations make reference of continuing conditions particularly for things like the maintenance of bmps I think it actually calls it out um so just some thoughts about um where this came from I think again if I may um your own Wetland protection bio law provides for waivers and waiver condition avoid being restrictive of the use of the property or is it constitute a taking of private property without compensation again here the applicant is not challenging the conditions that are Incorporated with the order of conditions from the D it is very concerned and I think rightly so from a legal basis and a basis and evaluation basis that listing the they should not have to get into a um a court case in 20 years when they go to sell this property as to which conditions are in perpetuity and which are not when if they're listed both places um so I think it's unfairly confusing I think it's unnecessarily honorous and um since everything is provided for not everything but the ones we've addressed are provided for in the U conditions by the D that we're trying to clean this up uh to avoid any confusion going forward thank you um yeah I think um I think part of tonight was was to kind of hear your presentation and um get an idea of um you know what you're requesting and to start looking at some of this stuff um I think now I I at least have a better idea and think that um you know I think I may want to share this and talk a bit more with with our town attorney about about this um I gu I'm wonder do the other Commissioners have question questions and comments I I mean I feel like we're not going to figure this all out tonight um I understand what you're asking and I do see some I do see issues with with this and I think we need to look at it a little bit more um why don't I stop sharing how about that what do the rest of you guys got any other questions or comments commiss my only question would be if they want to identify anything about the other um in perpetuity sections that're identifying if they if they have anything else to say about them individually the ones we requested uh Miss Rowan were M Rowan was condition 27 28 30 31 32 33 and 34 yeah I I know I just if you have anything in addition that you want to highlight for us to consider oh I see my apologies I misunderstood you yeah I maybe following up on that I think the some of these that what we've talked about to date are I mean we could talk more they're listed here is these post construction slimp perpetuity conditions that are already required under the well protection act and our byw uh and I I was interested actually some of these others like 30 that were off I mean these were these were um conditions that were placed to in in recognition of the work that was taking place in the resource area and they're not they're not covered elsewhere in um you know required under another law or regulation but they are you know looking at them um they are serving as the you know the the offset for some of the work that was done there in the riverfront and so um it seemed I think when these were placed that it was assumed that they would remain in place for as long as the um as the you know the the initial dwelling impact that they're that they're serving to offset you know remains in that resource area and so I I would like to hear from um you know whether it's Kathy or uh legal council the the rationale for why we would be removing like 30 and 31 um you know as maybe as a place to start um in perpetuity because the the impacts that they're offsetting are remaining in in perpetuity I would assume we're not revisiting whether or not the dwelling could remain so the 30 thank you sir uh 30 for instance says the applicant shall maintain and repair the markers and boulders as needed is that forever that those Boulders have to be maintained by by the property owner it's too vague to be a in perpetuity condition um It also says that no future activities in this area should be allowed that involve clearing of vegetation grading or other soil dis servance and so that would be raking clearing branches uh you know plantings uh except uh that uh uh so it says except for activities approved by the condition so now you're asking the homeowner or the property owner to come in every time they want to do something um that is uh you know something that limits their use and enjoyment of their property not in violation of any regulation um you know activities required to eliminate safety hazards maintain the driver Culver so now you're making in perpetuity and safety hazard isn't defined uh then this ISS there shall be no dumping of leaves grass clipping brushes or other de debris uh again in perpetuity uh the condition shall survive the expiration of sorder and should be included as a continuing condition and perpetuity on a certificate of compliance so that to me uh is somewhat vague it's U and it is honorous and it is in perpetuity things could change uh in the world in 10 25 years uh and it's uh it's not necessary uh and it's again restricting their use of the property which the town is certainly entitled to put appropriate restrictions on but not take someone's property by overly restricting it uh and that's without any compensation and that's prohibited by the law so that's 30 uh 31 the marking of pins and boulders and comption 30 should be inspected by the commission for any sale of the property in perpetu um and so uh again this is a condition that uh is requiring additional activities and uh expens of funds um and and it's asking it's basic is to mitigate the adverse effects of Prior development activities well what what is prior before someone before uh Salvador own this property uh that's what it's it's too vague uh and that's therefore places again an un unreasonable burden I think on them with respect to uh 32 uh again uh you are um you know asking the property owner to incur expenses um and future owners not only the current uh to to do things uh such as controlling rooftop run up and supporting Drainage Systems uh topography could change lots of things could change and the design capacity uh storm water management treatment capacity and structal must be maintained again in perpetuity they could become unnecessary they could become um out of date and things could change in the world and yet this would be something that would be held up as being in perpetuity uh that's 32 uh 33 is again you know we we we got uh people made comments about well you know in the future future owners that sort of thing and now uh you're putting a burden on the property owner to be an enforcement agent uh they have to provide verification that they notifi the commission of the transfer that they they the no divided the grantee about the Perpetual Wetlands that a property owner that should not be a property owners's um responsibility uh and again it's an ongoing condition like telling you you I'm going to buy your house you got to tell me that you had a a leaky oil tank 10 years ago uh you can choose to tell me but putting this on as a condition uh is honorous and not and not supported under your own laws and then the last one is uh 34 and 34 is within the transfer within 30 days of trans transfer of ownership another burden that the grantee should write a letter with an original signature affirming that they understand it's again making the current owners of Salvador's being the police to someone who buys their property again that's a undue burden restriction on their property uh that is not supported by the law so none of the conditions that they're asking to be removed uh amarate or eliminate uh all of uh the protection of the property uh there's lots of conditions from the D there's other conditions in here the vast majority of which have already been approved they' built this you know Wonderful structure they're very proud of it that but they want they don't want to have to face all these responsibilities as they get older uh and uh uh be responsible for giving the police and giving notice to a potential buyer uh and and let the buyer do their own due diligence um so that's our reasoning on those sir I don't know if I've answered your question but those are the those are the specific reasons and as I say you have the ability to away these I think the imperity ones that we've identified do not uh do not contribute to the overall protection of the area that's already cared for and provided for I just think they're frankly egregious far-reaching overreaching actually and to uh unfair to the property owner and I do think it by being so onerous it constitutes a taking and restriction of the property which is prohibited by Statute and the law um I don't know if Kathy wants to follow up with anything that I've said representing them I think you've captured everything that we were hoping to communicate the one thing I might add is if the commission wants to come and see what we've done come and actually it won't be the the uh final inspection that will go with our application for certificate of compliance but if it would help you with regard to this request to come and see the property we'd be happy to arrange a visit thank you um yeah we can we can talk about that thanks okay quick question Kathy is the is the um project complete it is yeah it is complete with the exception of um getting the ASB built planting plan from our engineer we've been having a hard time reaching him um and the plan is slightly different from the original because when we started to plant things there were you know there were obstacles here in there but um we need to get that to the commission and then we need to complete the request for certificate of compliance as well uh but this was the first step that we wanted to address uh before we went any further great thank you and when you say complete does that include putting in the boulders and the markers for the area okay those those were one of the first things we did um because we thought they were going to be really hard to do um so pins with um markings and all the boulders are already in place yeah great great um all right I'll stop sharing this okay so again I guess I feel like um you know we've heard we've heard the request um and I think we all need to sort of digest it a little a little bit um I'd like to put it on our agenda for for next Thursday does that work uh Cathy for you and no I I have several conflicts next Thursday unfortunately oh I don't know about attorney Martin what his schedule looks like but next Thursday doesn't work for for me I'm checking mine right now Cathy um did you say uh next Thursday Miss Wilson yeah August 22nd well at the risk of relying on my phone as opposed to my computer um I could be available on August 22nd uh I don't know if Kathy um would be more comfortable being present you know um Joe could be available next Thursday even though I'm not available so if you are Jim um he will be as well okay I sorry does that work all right I I'll put you down for um 8 o'clock we have a few other things before yeah that would 8m does that work it does actually if it's at eight I might also be available but I'll I'll check okay we have very full agendas these days lots of stuff if you want to schedule a tour of the property before then just let us know okay thank you that if you had a site visit before I think that you that would be very helpful then particularly for the members who raise questions about specific things they could they could get the the visional um you know view of why they uh as you can see the Kathy and Jo are not trying to be difficult here they're just trying to be practical um and and work with the commission to be you know be fair and reasonable so I don't I think a site visit would help satisfy uh you that we have good faith are trying to comply with everything willing comply with things but not sign up for in perpetuity on things that really my view are against the LA okay Jan do you want to work with Kathy to set up a time for us it sounds like it'll have to be in beginning of the week I'm away Monday but I'm back Tuesday I'll do that great um all right well thank you um for the presentation and like I said I think we need to digest it a little bit I might run it run some questions by um the town attorney before we talk again next week Bob you have your hand up yeah I apologize um uh half of the board is new um I know that this was uh uh so so only half of the the board has seen this um I think it'd be important to perhaps review the video or at least have uh all of us review the the the minutes um which led to the discuss this discussion which led to these uh special conditions which which you know I can only assume were not appealed during the appeal period so I think that would be that that would be helpful okay yep we can we can try and track those down and I'll send them to you guys I think Scott and I were both around for that but I think it was when I think we said that this was when we first started it was I think this was the first one of the first projects I was part of with the commission me too yeah um okay little did you think it'd be so memorable right there you go neither did we okay well thank you for your time and attention um if I'll touch base with attorney McNichol as well and if she needs anything from me be happy to provide it um and um we'll see you in on the 29th did we agree on 22nd 22nd I'm sorry yep Thursday thank you so much good night thank you good night thanks and commission thank you all right I don't think we have any other so the all that's left on the agenda is site visits and scheduling unanticipated business does anybody have any unanticipated business now we're very busy I'm very busy with this concom it's a little crazy we've been getting a lot of emails not sure everybody else has noticed how many we've been getting but lots of stuff I think we got another I haven't even looked at it but it was another building um building application email I haven't even looked at what address it is but I'll look Jan and we might be doing another site visit you know where's somebody who's applying for a building um a building permit and so then we just get notified about it and um those are the ones that sometimes we go to and it's not in our jurisdiction and that's okay we got another one of those today um just lots of stuff going on we had the tree question too yeah thanks for forwarding it I did actually finally get it but I didn't get it until like I had been home from our site visit today and then I got it so I don't know maybe it just was my my phone wasn't getting connection you know and I I'll remind everybody that we had a tentative uh date for the kestal walkth through and that's firmed up now that's where did you say about it I remember what the date was in September but it was on that list of uh site visits so that's actually a good date okay everybody's on board for it castral yeah oh I think did I did I email you to reach out to Penny wa what was going on with that I can do that I think I wrote it down that was for the North Lake tour talk yes oh no never mind she's just gonna come to a meeting so it's not going to be a site visit I've got her on the agenda for September 12 meeting to just come and talk to us about it so okay okay great um if nobody has anything else to say um motion to adourn oh I move I'll second that all right Khan hi Rowan hi Douglas hi and Wilson we'll see you guys soon have a good night great thanks everybody good night good night