##VIDEO ID:hULR4QDG7i8## e hi Pam I didn't even notice you were there sorry I hope I didn't scare you hey Kristen hi I'm opening a meeting okay e hi Beth hi um I am making you host Beth yes okay um sorry I missed the select board me I'm assuming you voted you can't hear me uh it's my fault I have to mute for the last meeting oh I was wondering why I couldn't hear anybody so you he now yes I can now okay did you vote Todd in I I missed I came okay he can't vote yet has to be SW in but he's in 100% right yeah I think he couldn't make it tonight anyway he had something else and he was at the select board meeting yeah he said he had something at seven so that's fine because he can't vote anyway but I was just a little few minutes late to that select boort meeting and I missed moving fast I'm so sorry I was oh that's okay I just wanted to make sure that that he got voted so that's great yes it did happen all right good night good night thanks thanks all right I see Bob I see Jam how's it going Bob do good thanks uh I've got all of my three girls home from school and work and camp and it's it's been pretty amazing so it's great time to go back to school yep to back back to school in a week but I I'll enjoy being with them till then yeah yeah definitely that's nice I Dro my daughter off at College on Monday oh wow that's freshman year so I'm a little bit yeah um my middle one is will be a senior this next year so her drop off for college is uh is coming up a year from now mhm it's it's big where where did your daughter go she's um at American University in DC oh nice that's great yeah yeah when we drove down we drove through that Connecticut flood it was crazy it was really really crazy we made the mistake of exiting off of 84 684 because the highway had come to a complete stop nobody was moving at all so we thought oh well we'll just get off and go through some of the smaller towns and we were like two towns away from Oxford where those people died by oh my goodness floating away and uh we it was crazy we were driving and we had to turn around at some points and we were basically trying to find roads that were higher elevation and all this just get to where we needed to go it was it was nuts but I guess they got 10 inches of rain yeah if if you ask me what states flood out Connecticut would not be the one of the ones that I picked I know I know crazy all right well um I think Scott is coming tonight um I guess maybe he's just a little bit late um so there's three of us here so we can open the meeting um at 7 o'clock on August 22nd 2024 and I am opening the meeting of the shutesbury Conservation Commission um and this meeting is being recorded and first on our agenda is minutes so we still we don't have a clerk um but I know it's been advertised but that's all I know and oh and what I was just talking with Becky about is that at the select board meeting tonight they um voted in and approved Todd TI Tien I still don't know how to say his last name um as our new commissioner so that's great now we just need a clerk and we are we would be 100% And that would be good so he'll come I'm assuming to our next meeting make I'll make sure he gets sworn in and all that um but so for minutes I I don't think we have any minutes for approval tonight Carrie is finish up a whole lot of old minutes and as she finish them she's just going to mail them to me um and we can just keep bringing them to meetings and then doc is doing the meeting the minutes from the last meeting um so Jan are you good for tonight tonight's meeting thank you that's great thank you JN um how else was I going to talk about oh well so I was gonna have um Jan tell us all about Dudleyville Dam and and any other have we had any other site visits um between the last meeting last Thursday and anyway sville is almost Good Enough by itself it is yeah tell us about it Beth and I went out and had a look before things got rolling way back when uh they got rolling on Monday I went out and inspected the um erosion controls which were kind of weird but you know they put stuff out the the lay of the land was such that unless there was a tidal wave pretty much nothing was going to happen so and it really didn't um Tuesday morning they took out what is looking Downstream the right side of the dam which let the water free and the stream was then running it drained the pond behind and today they were moving the the junk that was left over on what is the left side looking Downstream um I guess they going to still do some cleanup there but there was a cat moving things when I was there this morning so that was that was nice and what I didn't realize was the US fish and wildlife service kicked in about 50 Grand and the state kicked in about 50 grand for for for the grand total so that's where the money came from did they take out the beaver deceiver they did they had it sitting up uh to the left if you're looking Downstream on that little bit of a hill okay they had the whole stuff piled up there they must have pulled it out with the cat don't plan to do with it but there it sits um it's a lot of mud right now um this wasn't a site visit but I did happen to walk out on the uh kestral land trail and Beth had already approved removing what were a few ratty uh socks and now they're growing mushrooms and stuff so um I I think I'd just take a sharp knife and open them up and leave them there if it were me but you know you gave them the permission to take them out whatever they want yeah they asked if they could do what they wanted to do and I said yeah I think you can do it's time to do that and did we do anything else well we went to see 31 yep l view so we can talk about that when we get there okay sounds good yeah I'm interested in um that Beaver deceiver um trying to remember who paid for that because if Lois did then she really owns the pipe and the all the the whole cage and everything so it can't be reused in other places in town but if if it was a grant that the town help to get or anything like that the I don't know potentially it's good to reuse that kind of stuff we have a number of beaver dams that tend to pop up and good to have that kind of stuff around to reuse if you need to the expectation seems to be that the Beavers will be back right that's true so it might be premature to give that thing away or move or move it or anything yeah well it you know it is out of the water right so yeah it's just reusable equipment I guess is what I was thinking yeah I was surprised how the whole area drained um and I do wonder about the other Beaver Dam um um because to me it's holding back a whole lot of water and could actually be considered a little bit of a hazard but I don't know you know who to really talk to too much about that but um but yeah but once that the dam was down that whole thing really drained um had a big impact on that Wetland area um but pretty cool to watch how quickly it came down and it's you know um cool um all right I see Scott is here Scott you want to give us a little summary about um Conservation Area stuff I know you've been sending a bunch of emails yeah I don't have anything definitive I I did look at um our annual monitoring for the conservation restrictions that are assigned to the conservation commission um so we have a few of those um Su mountain is one that's done annually by a consultant and so I don't know I think Charlie Iceman does that Beth and I think he typically gives that in October um the last time that was done was last October so I think that one set um I did reach out to Castrol to find out about the Bakers field CR I think they they do that monitoring for us um and so just asked for the site report on that um I think you and I and Bob had walked part of that here before um earlier in the year for some for a site visit kind of related to um to that property and um then the old peach orchard CR is the other that's right here at flux Pond and I did reach out to the homeowners association there and thank you to the Commissioners for putting forward some dates that could work and I hopefully I'll hear back from them when we can get that scheduled great um and I think I I forwarded to you that CPAC was asking about the parking lot for um yeah South what is that one called West Quabbin West Quin Woodlands I did um talk I with uh I met with Penny before they met with with Kestrel and um she was talking with Steve about some other with the highway department about some other items and was going to visit with him about the curb cut we did talk about a a curb cut potentially for a parking area in the southeasterly part of that property um it seemed to be the best place with um um a sight line but there is there are Hills on either side of that and it's not it's not perfect um you know just for safety reasons so I I think um that was the first step is to see if we could kind of figure out where that would be so I did talk with Penny I think she was reaching back out to Steve on that okay yeah I um I'm not sure if if there's like a a time limit for using the CPA the CPAC money I um I think that's why Matteo was interested he also just wanted to update the CPAC on it but I also feel like he said before something about I can't remember time limits to use use it up well that would be good to know I'm I I wasn't aware of a time limit to get that parking lot in and what that be good to dig into a little bit more about what that covers beyond the parking as I do know we talked about a potential Trail there and um but that hasn't been laid out I think there will be some resource areas that we would have to cross for the trail and so there's more work that needs to be taken on before that would be ready to to be spent um can I jump in SC make a comment yeah Miriam um so there's $5,000 and I think you need to check with the CPA committee about whether they believe the terms of the grant would allow you to use it for trail development because I think that the original application really framed it very vaguely as signage and parking lot development um I'm signage is kind of a a broad category and if they say no it can't be used for that since there is going to be a special town meeting coming up this fall you could conceivably take it back to the special town meeting and get an amendment um to the grant um to use leftover funds for trail development do you know if there's a time limit on using the CPA funds mariia I think it's something like three to five years and what the grant but but I think that the big issue was that you need to be making progress on it but obviously there has been progress and efforts made and so that's not really the issue there was a clawback if you didn't do anything within the a year but um yeah I I don't think you need to worry too much about it getting clawed back the question is what can you use it for and I would ask Matteo for an opinion about that and you know if they feel they can approve that grade if not um see what if you can put a warrant on the um special t meeting okay sounds good um all right it's 7:14 awful close to 7:15 I think uh there's a CPA meeting tonight that I couldn't get to because of this meeting but so they are going to talk a little bit about M Matteo was just going to share that info um to them tonight I did tell them about the curb cut and that we had been looking into it and stuff like that so he'll share that with them um all right it's close enough to seven oh it is 7:15 um okay 7:15 678 fat Corner Road RDA tree removal who is here to present that I thought we were on the agenda for 7:15 you guys are on at 7:30 oh sorry and I'm wondering looking at the names if if anyone is here I don't see Jake or anyone that's too bad go a couple minutes but um while we're waiting did you all see there was an email from Bruce Stedman of the um he's of a few different worlds he's definitely Fort River Watershed Association I think he might be Connecticut River conservation he's on the he's on the ammer Conservation Commission um I don't know so I don't know if you guys saw that but he was asking for they're doing a a Fort River Watershed Association got $5,000 or something some kind of a grant to just do some more studying The Watershed and so they wanted a representative from the Conservation Commission and um anyway I I I know Bruce and I know the Fort River Watershed Association folks and everybody and I've done a lot of work for the Fort River water shed in general so I told him you know that I what I did was I emailed him and said oh there's Jake oh good um what I I did was email him and said the meetings are during the day like I think that would be hard for anybody on the commission to go to the first one was like at 10:00 in the morning and I assumed the others were going to be during the week too so he was actually going to take that info back and talk to the group and see if they could have them later in the day or on the weekends or or something so we'll wait and see but I don't mind going to those I'm kind of interested in the whole thing that they're doing there but um I'll keep you updated on that all right Jake you're here um how we doing how we doing we're we're good how are you doing not too bad not too bad okay good um actually I should say my little Spiel forgot to get that out all right past 7:15 uh this meeting for 678 brat Corn Road is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth and act relative to the protection of wetlands as most recently amended um and the wetlands Wetlands bylaw and Associated regulations for the town of shuberry okay so Jake can you present the project gotta present it we just gota we got to cut some trees down it's a human issue you know and then we got a lot of water in the basement so we got to figure that out so it should be all in that it should be all in that project plan if you guys probably all read it right you guys probably read it yeah yeah yeah we have all the stuff that you sent we have your update so you you had your first application was to remove the 22 trees and then um your update to that before we you know opened the hearing or the meeting or anything was to add some trenching around the back on side of your house yeah we had that when you guys came over we talked about that right y yeah so um why don't you I guess you could talk about the trees first or or the trench and just maybe the trench is easier for you to just describe like the width and how you're going to dig it and how you're going to fill it and what kind of it's pretty much like four feet around the house so it shouldn't affect the wet lens what you guys decided before and then whatever trees I want to cut down I pretty much told you guys when he came over for the uh site visit so I guess it's up to you guys whatever you want to do you know well for the for the trench I'm I'm just guessing you're putting in perforated pipe surrounding it with stone yep if any Filter Fabric around the yep Filter Fabric okay um then back filling um and then where's the outfall going to be right in the driveway I think I showed you guys too right in the driveway comes right daylight so hopefully it percolate I think you know and are you going to reinforce that outfall with anything yeah whatever you guys want what whatever you guys think we can do so okay [Music] um I still have some questions I I feel like um and I I'd like to hear from other Commissioners too but um I think we need a bit more information this is you know we we just need more information the trees I think we need an actual like written list of the trees with their circumference and their species so all 22 of them because I know you showed them to us but even just looking I don't know what circumference they are and our regulations are very much based on the circumference of the trees that are being taken out so a list of the trees and then I think we need um a map that shows the Wetland lines a little bit more I'm assuming that Ward gave you like a m so the scientific Andor came out those are the wetlands lines right yeah so if you guys want to come out and do it you you guys might as well do it because last time I did it you guys told him where it was so and if you guys want to measure trees that's fine I don't know so I have to do everything and then I tell you what to do and then you tell me what to do I just don't understand you know I don't it's it's kind of a big deal over there every time the wind blows I feel uncomfortable personally you know I do I do yeah well it's just it's not our job to put your application together and I think I already I did put the application together right but there's a there's there's some info missing that at least for me I don't know how to other how to other Commissioners feel and so Jan you came on the site visit did I don't think Bob or Bob were you there yeah you were there yeah sorry you were there I think both of them were there yeah yeah they were I think that's a reasonable request for a list of trees the exact number how big they are at breast height you know you just measure it around what species it is or your best closest guest and put them on the map around the house where you know the wetlands are in the back and you've got some runoff there in the front so make it clear where those trees land yeah I I I like to to second what Janice said and and Jake uh definitely don't want to give you a hard time on this you know I I understand you sit out there with you I understand how how scary those trees are when they they may come down but um the what works best is if if we have everything on a plan and agree to it then then there then that really is the literally the map for us to to move ahead so um uh measure the trees and then give us your best drawing of the uh I I think you you had said to me that you want to try and get the water to flow around the house um whatever detail you can put together related to that would would be uh the best way for the commission to to take a look at it remember it we all sign off on it and it becomes part of the record yeah I I can bring up the map that you did send and I can just point out do you want me to do that and point out a couple things that be good because I'm kind of honestly I'm kind of confused yeah let me show I am if I can find it okay can you guys see it see see the screen okay so so Jake did put these red numbers are the trees right J yeah so so I got to measure everything and then we got to do another two weeks and do everything again or what well so so here's the backyard and this is the old plan that shows the restoration of the backyard which is good right because you know where the wetlands are yeah so the this rock wall is really the yeah you know this whole area is a wetland um and then you have 15 feet to the house and these red numbers are the trees and they we've got some that go around to the front of the house um you guys also seen them though right yeah we've seen them and so so one so just one you the Tre is there a couple trees is okay to come down now or no um I think need to just figure it all out first before any trees come down um just so one one thing that would be good to just draw in even by hand if youve if you've got the old plan is I see a wetland line right here that shows that stream that goes in the front yard and obviously this line probably continued but then this this table got put over it and like tree number six like I can't tell if that is inside the Wetland or outside the w we also saw it in person right so is there any trees that can come on come down that are kind of okay to come down now or no we all saw it in person right or no right but so part of our regulations has to do with you know knowing the diameter of a tree and then talking about you know replacing it I'll I'll replace whatever you want if it's 30 inches long I'll replace whever you want I will anyway what I think you have this you have this this plan it's very close to being done I would like it if this Wetland line just got drawn in to where the rest of it is because I can't see it and the other thing is take the same thing with a pen or a pencil just draw in where the trench is going to be we already did that we I there's this is the old plan i s you an updated one so you got the old plan uh oh that's not good let me see see if I can find the old one you know the big thing is I'm trying to make it safe for my family as all that's all I'm trying to do so if there's a couple trees that are like I can actually take down because three you guys saw it if you guys don't mind I just want to take a couple trees down that are kind of bad and I'd be okay and then we can go from there you know but it's up to you guys obviously so I don't know yeah one I don't know maybe I didn't download it Craig from my office sharter with you too are you on your email now because you can send it right now no I'm opening up what I think is the newest one oh okay here because I thought I did pretty much what you guys wanted me to do and now we could go back again which is fine if we gotta not cut down Fromm trees that's fine but I don't know just it's been going on for a while is all [Music] yeah that's it all right so numbers 1 through 23 are on the map and then all right so the red the red line is is the trench yes the piping's going red line excavation four feet and I think we talked about that too you said that was a good spot Jake do the um those those red markers of the pipes do they H just just dead end or the green is the pipe right so the pipe goes right on the existing Foundation I have a lot of water in my basement so understood have to water my basement is pretty bad so the green line is a the green line is a perforated pipe that goes through the driveway which we did talk about and the red line is the excavation line approximately 4 feet and you guys gave me 15 feet before so got plenty of room I think but you know I don't know so uh if you would um yeah where those uh pipes end uh at the bottom of the screen parallel to the house that green line yeah green line is the area where pipe is going right and where where they end how does that water flow out are the open ends is it a right on the driveway okay so the the water will exit out onto a paved or stone driveway yes okay what about the right side is it coming out of both sides one side oh so the per Pike should pick it all up and take it to the left side okay um and are you going to use erosion control um you know basically between where the the end the eggs of the the side of the trench and the Wetland area yep did you say yes or no we can yes but is there Wetlands around the house that clo if I can definitely so like on the left and right side we can do that yes definitely yeah just you know these are new Wetlands that yep so You' want to do that you gotta pile you'll be piling up dirt which say we have one of our rainor yeah I think you're right we can do that yes okay and then I I had mentioned so at this outfall it's going on to a driveway yeah um but so for for kind of like hardening right where the water's coming out there are you thinking some gravel like a rip wrappy something a little bit bigger to just to slow the water down we could do like 3/4 inch one inch Stone just to keep it in there is that what you're thinking we could do that yes yeah otherwise it might it might be so powerful that you know I know you never know would aod your part of your driveway no yeah definitely definitely yeah [Music] um so I feel like all of these are all good ideas and I feel like um that it sounds like you're on board to do them I just feel like they do need to be actually on a map that we approve so like you know the erosion control is on here and then you guys approv this map before no well we we approved this map when we were doing the the restoration project yeah but that's a different project we also been on site and four feet around the house is pretty much what it's going to be so you guys seen the house that's what it's going to be so I don't know we all seen the house no 4 feet around the house we're going to put some pipe out and then I want to cut some tree if you guys did you guys decide on any trees that's allowed to be cut down or no did you guys talk about it Jake is it are there a couple of trees that you want to identify that are an emergency um 13 2 three got that one 23 19 18 17 can you scroll down okay are laugh your numbers getting pry High I mean you've got something that you see is GNA you know like imminent collapse on the roof or something that's that's what I'm talking about not trees that just make you nervous yes pretty exactly what I told you I know what they are so you want me to say it again no okay I think when you're asking for a half a dozen trees you're already well into be honest with you it's an old house it's it's been unoccupied for how many years and Beth that's probably why it's a wetland now because back in the day they built it and then all the water built up right and now you know I don't know it's just not it's it's a safety thing it is I want to look at the tree part of our regulations be this is Rob Kibler I have a question for the applicant on an engineering issue uh um we're not really taking public comment at the moment actually we will in a bit okay we are six minutes overdue to start our our 7:30 session yeah Jak quick question uh will the trees be stumped or or left in place we can stump them leave him in place be honest whatever you guys want is fine you know it's up to you guys I don't mind doing whatever you guys want I don't we can stump him leave him play probably leave place would be better right the stumps that that would be my preference that's fine it's fine I think we're also going to need erosion control in the front yard um you know I'm just I'm looking at like seven eight nine 10 and and we can't see where the Wetland line is I mean seven eight nine 10 can stay I'm not too worried about those it's more three I think three right two two 23 18 17 13 17 go down m it isn't really a question of whether you can remove trees it's a question a question of whether you have a plan in place how they're G to come down you know what you're going to do about replacing them if you have something that really is the plan I did speak about replacing the trees yeah but we need a whole list because the size of the tree influences what you have to replace it with so what do you guys want it would be good to have aable what we want I think what we want is is a list that lists the trees and possibly I don't understand is is there a reason you guys can't tell me what you guys want and I'll do it is that a big deal it is because basically what we what we want is based on the location of the trees in in relevance to the wetlands but also the size of the trees and the species of the trees and we don't quite have all that info I know we did a site visit but for us to remember 23 trees and where they're located and how big they are and what species they are is is a little hard for us so I'm just kind of confused it's just if you provide that list then at our next meeting we'll we'll be able to come up with a restoration plan like a replanting plan for you and okay so are we are we allowed to do the drainage then I mean if you you'd be splitting your application in half and it it would make it very awkward actually I mean in in way that's really then becomes two applications um well obviously I have to submit new application anyway right so let's make it about the advantage then can I do the advantage you're telling me I have to subit another application anyway so might as well do the drainage right and we're talking about the permit you didn't tell me anything about the SE SE the tree size nothing because I would have done it species I didn't know that I mean a okay well I would have it's kind of thing that you think possibly an applicant is going to provide in their application I don't I I don't think that's accurate okay well what do other people have questions about the drainage about the pipe um and the outfall and stuff like that I mean my my only concern with that would be to put in erosion control and we don't necessarily have to have that on fine I'm fine with putting erosion that's fine and we can condition it that you put erosion control in yes um anyway do other Commissioners have questions about the drainage Madam chair yes I I jakeob wonder if you could tell us where your septic system is it's um so you see that dotted line in the front of the house so it's pretty much it's old system so it's it's probably I'd say 15 20 feet right there in front of the D line okay and um and if I recall correctly you said that the uh water is going to drain all out of one pipe and that's the pipe that's on the left of this this map correct okay so you won't be discharging onto the septic system from your perimeter drain yes so that perforated line so probably at least 20 24 feet right there okay you're not you're not discharging on that that's fine thank you no no all right if there aren't any more U questions or comments from the commission at this point we can still discuss but Miriam's got her hand up so we're going to take some public comment Miriam uh question that I had for the applicant is since you're moving water away from the foundation and it is a a wet area in the winter months aren't you going to have a Perpetual icing problem on your driveway oh Jake might have froze oh there he is be honest with you I don't even know what that means well you're dumping water you're moving water from around who are you what's your name do you live next to me no I don't okay I'm at the other end of pror road but I'm an engineer so my concern with this is a practical one has nothing to do with regulations but if you're transporting water from around your house to the top of your driveway won't you have an icing problem in winter with water coming out of that pipe and going down your driveway that's winter right I don't know well before I invested thousands of dollars in doing that I I'd sure consider that thank all right um I might stop sharing my screen if people still want to look at the image at all stop so I can see if there's any other public comment or any other commissioner comment anybody have comments public or Commissioners no so it sounds like what we're doing here is possibly like you know issuing a determination of applicability just regard to the uh perimeter Trin that he's putting in um so then maybe what can happen Jake you know we is that um you come we talk a bit more we you come back with sort of an emergency SE request or you just get in touch with me about an emergency SE request for some of the trees the ones that are true emergency because that could happen much more quickly or you submit an application again with a little more detail about the trees themselves with the species and the diameter the thing is if to me if you don't go with that tonight you don't go with the trees if we don't basically just continue this and not make any decisions at all if you're going to come back you may really have to go through the whole application process again for just the trees so it may may be better for you if we just continue this RDA tonight and it's got both things involved it's got the drainage it's got the trees we continue it two weeks from now and two weeks from now you come back to our next meeting with that info on the trees and then we can approve the request as you had submitted it with both with both things involved um because if we just go with the drainage tonight and kind of close out this meeting on your application you really would have to either apply again for a whole bunch of trees and give us info or just come back for an emergency request for a few of the trees so that's your you'll have to decide which way you want to go with that I think I'd like to get something done person that's how I am you know I'd like get something if we could decide on the drainage that's fine and then I don't mind applying again I don't mind all right or doing the emergency thing might be the best for a few of the trees it sounds like um all right then um con Commissioners any more discussion needing needed before we uh close them close the meeting yeah no I I I apologize I'm trying to I would like to do the drainage and then I'll re apply for the trees yeah no we're just we're just kind of closing the the public meeting and then we'll I apologize yeah that's okay we we vote to kind of close it and then we talk about conditions and things and then vote again to actually issue the determination so right now we're just kind of voting to close discussion Bob yeah I apologize Jake just one more question um uh related to the outfall and um uh that is discharging under your driveway how far is that would you say to the uh the wetlands on the other side the the soall downhill side of the house um I'd say like 30 40 feet but that's every house on Pratt Corner that's every house great thank you that that's thank you thank you yeah and I think where that water's going to come out isn't necessarily like right where you park either it's kind of above where you park your cars yeah it's on that left side of the Dragway pretty much yeah all right so I need a motion to uh to close the the public meeting public discussion on 678 BR Corner Road second anybody oh Bob you're muted uh I'm sorry if you're looking for a second I will second it okay um then we need to vote con hi Rowan hi Douglas hi Wilson hi all right so now we just need to kind of talk about conditions that we can include I you know have the document um prepared because I didn't know we were going to actually do it tonight but what I see as conditions are erosion control um basically all along the north or the backyard side and then coming down on the the west side too would be in fact I think it's going to have to wrap the whole thing I have to look at the Wetland line but it might just wrap around the whole house where the trenching is going to go and then I think I will maybe a condition about hardening right at the outfall um and and back filling I'm assuming this is mostly trenching it's done in a day so that may be a bit of a condition too is that you trench and back fill within day um that's all I can think of and receding any other ideas sounds good sounds about right it does sounds about right oh okay U Beth do you require notification of the commencement of work yeah so that's sort yeah a standard condition of um you know inspection of erosion control um and notification of start of work yeah thank you so would that happen in a day yeah I mean you guys would probably be I'm guessing you install erosion control almost the same day that you're going to trench do it all in one day and so s pictures or if you guys want to come on site you guys come on site whenever you want you know anytime so you yeah there would be a condition that you would let us know what day the control is going to be up and need to be inspected prior to starting the digging so if you're doing it in one day just have us come in the morning and check it out before you start digging that's fine that's fine okay and erosion control you know it's like a waddle with Stakes you know or or a sock some kind of a sock with the stakes in it right y yep okay um all right so if there's no other thoughts on the permit uh itself um I need a motion to issue a determination of applicability for 678 frat Corner Road for drainage so motioned all right second I second great Douglas hi Rowan hi Conan hi and Wilson all right Jake we'll get you that um that permit uh what's today Thursday by you know like next week next Tuesday maybe is I appreciate you guys I appreciate your time too thank you all right and reach out to us about the trees again said conference in species to best my knowledge right yes that's what we're looking for no I appreciate you guys thank you thanks have a good night okay all right next we have um an administrative approval request for 74 P Corner Road Miriam hi there okay thank you um so um our property has previously been delineated and I um you should have on file the um engineered site plan with all the elevations and the Wetland boundaries um and that delineation is is still current um it's less than three years old um and um we're doing two small projects one is in the front of the house and um we're just removing a small like uh 3 and A2 by 6 foot or 5 and A2 3 and a half by 5 and A2 wooden deck um and then we're going to dig two post holes um and put in new pier supports and put in a slightly larger porch six feet by six and a half feet um that that that porch is damaged it's no longer safe so we have to remove it um and we will use an erosion control but all the work will be within a pre viously landscaped stone patio we're not removing any vegetation um we'll put in an erosion sock um and the limit of work is I don't know about 75 feet from the BBW um but there's quite a bit of vegetation and landcaping between our limit of work and the BBW um and we're not going to be having any spoils piles we're just going to the excavated soil just be redistributed under the porch and the debris will be uh trucked off site um disposed of and then the uh rear the house um I mean technically the building inspector demon think we needed kcom approval but um we're asking anyway we're moving a deck and um closing off a sliding patio doors and putting in um Regular windows so we'll be cutting off the deck and removing the deck um and the peers that are in place there of them are just going to stay in the ground we're not digging them out and then we're just going to landscape that area and it's in the back of the house um it's uphill of the wetlands but any water would have to get through our foundation of our house before it could get to the Wetland so I don't think we need any erosion controls I can't imagine how any water would get downhill from that site and we're we we're not really digging okay how I'm sorry is okay you ask a question Beth oh yeah um the uh the front of the house what would you say is the is that distance to the Wetland that's I think the limit of work is gonna be about 75 feet 75 feet okay and the one on the other side um well again you know we're not digging we're not doing any ground disturbance but it's like 97 97 yeah okay all right yeah it see it seems a rather diminus project in general um household front and back door type projects yeah the it's um it's uh the deck itself is you know 45 square feet 49 square feet or something like that but um it's only two peers so we'll Dig Two postals all right well yeah it sounds sounds very not very impactful and it sounds good and you've got your erosion control your plan for erosion control when do you think you're going to do the work uh as soon as you sign off in the building permit we want to start the demolition so we're all ready to go okay great um any other questions from the commission no any questions from the public nope so this is the first uh AAR or small permit project that we've issued um so we don't have a form for the for the like determination or or but what I thought I would do is actually use the the state um determine of determination of applicability form but just you know Mark it up with a with by hand which Mark Stinson has told me before any anything you need to do to change those forms so that they fit what your commission is doing is completely fine so you know we just haven't created the form yet um for the for the determination um so that's just my idea to use that but we will uh yeah um I mean I can't really think of any additional conditions for this it sounds like you've got everything covered I I mean just usual condition as we with the other project once the erosion control is up have us come and do a inspection of it before to do an inspection or could I just send you photographs I think with this one you could just send photographs I think that's fine but I will I will oh apparently there's something in my yard just a moment will use an erion hey Eve what oh um okay um so I don't think there's any other questions from the commission and that was my plan to use the state form for the for the permit so I need a motion to approve and issue the uh administrative approval permit for 74 P Corner Road uh so moved all right second I'll second okay Rowan hi Douglas hi con Hi and wolon hi thank you Miriam I I will try and get that to you early next week can you sign off on the um Franklin County uh building inspection permit so they can generate the permit yes I can do that as of tonight if I have time because we've issued the permit so I can go in and do that work on it this weekend okay well good luck all right thank you um okay that's our 7:30 right next on the agenda is um 31 Lake View Road um this is what we talked started talking about at our last meeting um I see Kathy is here and Kathy is your lawyer coming he was planning on it I don't see him um on this list but we spoke with him earlier today and he was planning on on it okay do you want to wait for him or um well if if the commission wants to get into a discussion of our request I guess that's okay for now okay um so we kind of left it off last week um we started going through some of the conditions that were that were under that were being questioned by the Salvador and their lawyer um since that time we did a site visit Jan and I um did a site visit to see the property and I also talked I had a long conversation with Donna McNichol about about the situation um I can talk about that discussion maybe J can talk about the site visit but my my discussion with Donna uh basically you know agree that Perpetual conditions are really you know that's not really it's not legal to to be issuing certain types of Perpetual conditions um and that you know to move forward we really should amend the order conditions um doing a waiver doesn't really make sense either so we should go the route of amending um you know some of some of the conditions in that list that that they've provided some of the what's in that what's in some of those conditions is not necessarily Perpetual uh if you get this that that whole category is called post construction perpetual and if we got rid of that and just had that section called post Construction there are conditions in there of work that you know is not really perpetual and is and is things that was really mitigation for um the project that was uh Riverfront Redevelopment is what that work really was and under Riverfront Redevelopment where there's impact commissions can certainly ask for mitigation and ask for General Improvement of the riverfront area and that's what some of these things were to me things like like putting in the um the no Disturbed line so the rock wall that went in and the posts that went in and Jan and I saw those and they look great and they're in the right location um and they've now really become part of the landscaping and they look great but so putting those in was part of mitigation and then really making that no disturb a no disturb um and I think you know I think we'd want to hear from from from Kathy and for lawyer that that that's that's true that that area it now has that line permanent line and that as far as the Salvador are concerned that really is no touch they have no plans to do anything in that area so those are the kinds of things that I feel like were mitigation um excuse me Beth sorry I just got a call from attorney Martin he's not able to get into the meeting he said oh boy um I think Becky made me host I hope she made me host because I'm not seeing anybody requesting to get into the meeting that's not good but I think I've seen people come and go so that's kind of odd that he can't get in yeah I told him I'd let you know when he's probably trying again as we speak okay now I've definitely seen some people come into the meeting so and I didn't have to let them in um so I think he should be able as long as he's uh got the right link from the agenda okay I'll check with him to make sure okay sorry um those are some of the things that Don and I were talking about you know was it truly the idea of the Perpetual you can't these conditions are 30 years so the word perpet prual doesn't really work um you know unless it's a deed restriction which again there was this kind of attempt to do a deed restriction with this order of conditions and I I don't I don't think it really made much sense um but I don't know Jan you want to talk about the site visit I have to let my dog in uh we we did go there the other afternoon uh like Beth said the no disturb Zone was clearly marked and it had clearly not been Disturbed you know stuff is along the edge of the stream the way it will go in the woods um it comes all the way around the side of the house where there is a wetland so that whole Zone winds up being no disturb um one of the other key things was the drains from the house from the roof go into dry Wells they were in place and seemed to be working effectively um they had a list of plantings they had to do and it looks like they've done it and that most of the stuff has taken so that was good um our discussions seem to Bear out the fact that they understand what's expected and um you the place looks great so I I think that they have met the intent of the order of conditions Beth as I recall um one of the conditions related the or condition was an inspection of the site was was this site visit that you and Jan did that inspection no I feel like this was more um so since since the order of conditions is probably going to be um amended like this site visit was really part of this whole discussion about about deciding what to do about the perpetuity question um they'll still have to do a a final inspection to get their certificate of compliance if if that's what you're talking about so I think if we amend the order now there's a whole there's a change in the order that you know when you do your inspection for certificate of compliance you you take that final order and you make sure that they did everything in it and we're actually changing it so I still feel like they'll need to do another inspection for their certificate of compliance um Scott yeah thank you I'm I'm wondering just a follow up on what you said with your conversation with um with our attorney donna BC Nichols and the it seems that for the order of conditions covered a whole wide range of things some of them were more immediate follow-up which were done kind of over and done with at the time some of which are um as you said they're like long-term offsets for the impacts and you know the what you talked about with the the markers and the the no touch area um that are being adhered to and I'm wondering are are those offset that's um those conditions being Perpetual is that problematic or is it the shorter term followup things that kind of get lumped in there that might have been confusing I'm I was trying to understand the difference there if there is a distinction between the two so are you asking sort of which which of the perpetuity questions are the real ones that are an issue for the for the applicant yeah or and with with legal counsel are they because some of these seem like they're offset for Perpetual impacts that we permitted and some of them are are not that there there were there were um followup items that needed to be done in the short term and so I'm asking for like you mentioned the markers and the no touch zone are those that those were Perpetual conditions I thought in the in the permit are those the conditions that you're saying can those remain or are you saying that those are conditions that that we have been found that we can't we can't um ask for offsets in that way perpetually even though the the impacts might be Perpetual that's what I'm trying to understand yeah yeah no I know I I I see what you're saying um you know I think one one thing that it seems to me that the applicant is just asking for is almost removing the word Perpetual from a few spots but that's part of what what Donna agreed is that there were things that were agreed upon when there was a public hearing regarding this that our mitigation really and some of them in the end are going to be Perpetual you know the the the existing of that rock wall you know and the fact that th that we had them Mark the no disturb Zone and that and that that area is going to be no disturb is is really something that you know we ask for as mitigation um for uh and and is something that that was really agreed upon um you know I can bring up the list again and we can talk about things I mean in in the end um I think you know donana was was agreeing that that we can't it's it's a it's a taking to to be saying that certain land [Music] um has I think what she really threw out a few times was that our our strength and our our our power comes from what's in the wetlands protection act and what's in our bylaw so the idea that this entire property is in Riverfront is in almost the 100 foot Riverfront and is also within the 100 foot buffer zone gives us a whole lot of power to to say first of all to anybody who's ever going to live there they're going to have to come to the Conservation Commission to do many me to do most things in a way because they're within that 100 foot Zone you know so that's really where our power is but we can't necessarily go go beyond that kind of thing um you can ask for mitigation if it's agreed upon you know that that's that's one thing but um I and I think that's where I was trying to understand Beth is for so for mitigation for for a presumably a Perpetual impact like we're not going back to like let's revisit the house placement or the work that was done every periodically every 10 15 20 years we're saying that's been done there was there was talk about that no disturb area and agreement on the no Disturbed area and that was put in as an order of conditions to remain a no Disturbed area perpetually and that's what I'm trying to understand is is it did did um our attorney say it's it's problematic to to issue Perpetual mitigation for Perpetual impact I understand that not everything in that list really lend themselves to a Perpetual thing and I think some of that was wording in the permit but to me that's the Crux of it I'm just trying to understand because I I think it's pretty common that that mitigation and restrictions we have lots of examples of that here and and I hear what you're saying this wasn't recorded as a conservation restriction um that way and um and maybe it ought to have been at the time as mitigation for it I think part of the problem as I recall you know is that this we entered into this after the things had already kind of begun in progress and so um I don't recall exactly why we didn't pursue a conservation restriction but I'm trying to understand um if what our attorney legal council is saying is that we can't if we can't um request Perpetual orders and conditions to offset an impact that would be I I guess that would change my thinking when we're or we're voting on some of these things where there's a Perpetual impact and we're trying to offset it that way and and that we would need to follow up with some sort of conservation restriction deed restriction that way I I that's what I understood from uh from Donna um is that the conditions conditions you know in an order of conditions which is the permit for a for a project the longest those conditions can be good for is the 30 years that we've heard about um and that what is Perpetual are more deed restrictions and I'm assuming conservation type restrictions too um not to say that you can't still still still say to somebody please you know one of our our uh mitigation is for you to Mark the um no disturb line you know or or Mark the Wetland line on your property and if that's an agreement that that person makes um as as mitigation for something then they put it up is it can we can we um say that it's going to be there perpetually no you know like there's no this whole idea of having some kind of a Perpetual agreement that that doesn't necessarily exist unless you have a a a formal uh Deeds restriction created by lawyers and vot and all the you know go through that whole process that's how I understood our conversation um thank you yeah and and sorry that she couldn't make it tonight she is on vacation she left on vacation but she did say if if this whole discussion doesn't really come full circle she she's very interested and would certainly come to our next meeting um and is open for any questions that we have too about any of these things hi be hi it's Jim yep you made it into the meeting yeah I was locked out I know yeah I don't I wasn't letting people in so I'm not quite sure how that what was going on but oh I made it thank you um I you know obviously Donna speaks for you and she she's your lawyer I did have some Communications with her uh and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that that the property itself and the existing Wetlands protection act isn't existent and that's that's your map that's your guideline and that but that but that could that could be changed in any you know statutory Regulatory and that's another reason why you don't have in perpetuity to then get in a fight that we've changed this Benchmark or done something like you know and then you're stuck with a a a mark on your title so conditions are within the law are Reas that are reasonable are okay uh in perpetuity you know is not so I think and then and then agreements but they have to be agreements an agreement by legal definition two sides come together and agree now now you have I think you had a site visit yesterday and I and I think you've seen that the Salvador are doing a nice job and compliant and want their place to be nice and and be you know just they can hold it up to be that that they respect the land so that's I think the difference uh maybe from the three categories and that's why we're asking the Imp perpetuity language be removed is is that a fair uh Fair summary of what you understood Donna told you because that's what no yeah that is and and you know for me the big concern and I think you know Scott's kind of thinking in the same realm is um for any property if if it's to me you know the Sawmill River is is such an important river and um so having having that no disturb line is important and uh to me and I feel like to the commission and and so the big question is it sounds like this the you know the Salvador certainly love having no disturb there it sounds like to me they they like having the natural vegetation it's it's they're they're happy with it but when they go to sell their property you know uh however many years that'll be you know 50 years or I think the daughter's taking the house so whenever it is going to be like and any property when that happens uh it's that communication to the next owner about that no disturb Zone i' I've seen it happen in in ammer where I work where you know you go through the whole process as a concom to have somebody Mark a no disturb Zone and then the people sell the property three years later and all of a sudden the commission looks in in somebody's mode like right over all the no disturb or all the Wetland markers and they're like I don't know what those blue things were I just mowed them down you know they so there's that question of of going into the future and uh and so to me deed restrictions I guess are the way just Scott so you know for like you know just thinking of of projects into the future there are if it's important enough going that route of doing the the full kind of deed restriction of an of an area to make sure that the next owners know that it's no disturb is it's an option that's what it is an option because it AG to right there's that right if it gets agreed to if if it's needed um okay so I'm the amended order is is the way I think we need to go with this um and you know there's uh there's the usual way of doing that which is we need to have another public we need to have an actual public hearing um there's administrative approval but in this case I think there may be sort of enough public who might want to ask questions about it um that I feel like we do need to do that which means that we would need to have a public hearing probably at our next meeting which is um two weeks from now um and it needs you know the other notification and the the legal ad um and that's that is on the applicant and then we and actually tonight first the concom needs to vote um so when anybody comes forward to amend an order of conditions we vote whether or not we feel like a whole new notice of intent was needed this is usually if there's additional work being proposed or if we feel like an amendment is will suffice so we need to vote on that tonight um and then I'm just kind of spelling out how it would work if if we do go with the amended then next meeting would be the public [Music] heing how do people feel about that you're talking to the me to members right because we we're in favor of an amended yeah yeah I well I'm just making you guys aware that that you have the public hearing has to happen which involves about butter notification and a legal ad and all that for before uh the meeting so but um yeah commissioners no I'm supportive of that path I think that makes sense a good path forward okay I I'd like to say that um you know I did a deep dive into the uh the past minutes of this particular hearing and it seemed like there was an agreement uh um an an unappealed decision on this particular notice of intent um so that I think there is stuff that needs to be discussed and I I do think that the uh amendment is uh an amendment hearing public hearing is a proper format to do that so I would support uh uh uh reviewing a submitted amendment when it comes in okay all right great so let's um I need a motion then to um to we need in a motion that the commission is not requiring an additional notice of intent and we are requesting that then or we're going with an amended order of conditions never never really know how to say that one it's very confusing we need a motion so we are moving that the proponent must file for an amendment is that correct yes okay I so move second I'll second okay con hi Douglas hi Rowan hi and Wilson um Tom you have your hand up thank you um I don't know the answer to my question and it's just a question but as far as I'm aware Don McNichol purchased a property from the Salvador in 2022 and and as far as I'm aware the Town Council who she is as a result recused herself from consultation about uh properties of the Salvador including this one and my question is whether there is an existing conflict of interest as a result of that business relationship between donov gck and the Salvador and the ramif ations of that potential conflict of interest what they would be if it is indeed one and I don't know how to find guidance about whether that's um caus for a true conflict or the perception of a conflict please um I mean I can definitely look into that a little bit um I think in a way what what what I was what we were asking her had more to do with just um um perp the question of perpetuity and you know was it was it legal it wasn't necessarily this particular property um still you're right maybe she should not have been even providing any advice at all but um you know it really was more I also I also reached out to the DP to Mark Stinson about the same question you know because it really it really will now it really affects all of our decisions for all properties you know what are what are we legal to do as a commission in terms of um that's why I think it's so important to base the questioning on an application where there aren't any conflicts of interest because it does have ramifications Beyond this application so the question would not have come to our Town Council were it not for this particular application is how I understand I I might be misunderstanding um but it just raises a concern for me about uh the participation of Our Town Council and questions that arise from people that she's done business with and I I don't know whether you can give me an answer but I just wanted to raise it as a question yeah thank you please for raising it as a question thank you yeah I might add that normally it's the council initial determination to inform a board whether or not in their judgment they have a conflict once the subject matter is raised so yeah I think she did state that back in 20122 I believe when the property was purchased and the permit came into or the first application was made but um I can ask her if that's what she said then but as far as I'm aware that's what she said then and I didn't know that anything would change but I don't know can I make a comment yeah if Tom Tom you're done then Miriam has thank I just wanted to raise the question and thank you so I had a conversation with u Donna MC nickel when this project was before the commission and um at the time she told me she could not advise us because she had was just in the process of negotiating a purchase of a property with the Salvador and I did consult with um Mark Stinson at M DP at the time so just some info background thank you yeah well I don't know what Mark said to you but he basically said to me that he didn't know because with Mark I don't even he doesn't even know the project I didn't even talk to him and I didn't really with Donna as much either talk about the specifics of this site or this project it was more the question of can our commission issue conditions in perpetuity because again I feel like I've seen it before with other towns and I really wanted to know the legal answer to that question um and Mark basically said he didn't know which is not helpful to me at all and then Donna provided a bit more uh sort of legal This legal backing behind it which which all to me from also just what I've Googled in terms of the the the laws out there um that that idea that that we can't do that does seem to be the answer um so got just another another piece is there is another property that I'm aware of there might be more where there's a similar uh kind of um deed U mechanism and that is a property on sandel road and I don't remember the address but I remember in 2021 the property was being sold and the commission had to go out and refresh and reinspect the markers and and all of that for that sale to go through is there an actual deed restriction or is the deed restriction with u permanent markers um that were metal pins um which were as I recall really hard to find and it ended up requiring a metal detector to find them we spent um like two hours tromping around the woods we couldn't find them they finally were figured out may I uh inquire um as I said before I think it's protocol is to ask your Council they feel they they need to recuse themselves first if you're going to do that you can't do it till Donna gets back and then we need to know if she's gonna continue to advise or step aside so for terms of submissions and scheduling it would be helpful to know that okay yeah I um I'm not sure how long vacation is she was going out of the country so I want i' say at least a week and a half or so but um okay well at this point we've voted to have um it done under um an amended order of conditions um and I think you're right that maybe we wait to find out what's going on with Donna um so she's not returning till September the 9th September 9th okay let me look at my C but you took a motion has it been voted we voted thank you all right she comes back September 9th and our next meeting is September 12th um so anyway I I think you know we don't need to decide tonight um when the hearing is going to be because you know it's not like we're continuing a hearing that's already open this is going to be a new hearing so um we'll just we'll just keep in touch about that and find out what's going on with Donna um and we'll let you know so yeah we have a meeting on the 12th and we have a meeting on the 26th of September um so most likely it'll be one of those two nights and we'll we'll keep in touch and could you let us know when you would like the proposed amendments submitted yes yep give us a little lead time yep yes definitely we will okay sounds good thank you have good night you too Hey Beth forgive me I just wanted to follow up on that wouldn't the um proponent just submit the uh the amendment and then then we we hear it in do course within 21 days I mean we can do it that way I it sounds like we may be waiting to hear a little bit with Don if the applicants are all right just holding off until we find out what's going on with Donna okay all right I see that was the reason okay thank you yeah that might be a good idea that's fine with us okay great all right well thank you we'll talk more have a good night yeah you too all right next on our agenda is the um sub doing not weed Coalition they they're here to to present um their plans to get rid of not weed I I sent it around to all the Commissioners what you sent us so so this is Pam is here right to present I think you're muted mute oh there we go okay um so I hope you all had a chance to read the uh proposal and uh before I sent this proposal we did a presentation to to the umel board right the select board select for thank you it's late I'm tired and so my brain is a little slow yes we did a a a nice proposal to the select board talking about not weed and the difficulty with it and how invasive it is and I know we have a lot of invasives there's a lot of invasives everywhere um but knotweed is pernicious and it becomes a monoculture and it takes over areas on my road I've been watching these areas for years and wi with all of the rain I don't know if you all have noticed things are growing like jungle now and some of the areas there's one area in particular right on my neighbor's property that has doubled in size since last year so um I our concern is for the invasiveness of this product this plant and how difficult it is to get rid of and we are looking around town and seeing that that the plots that once were you know small are now much larger and the more they grow the harder they are to try to manage um and I am I'm a a pollinator person I've been growing pollinator plants and AD and and advocating for pollinator plants for 20 some years and my concern is that if we let this not weed go and we don't do anything about it um that will eventually just consume the roadways which will eliminate all of the native plants it will it already is and I have to tell you there's one thing and in my search for six properties and I listed Seven uh sites that are potentials for the first to try to get rid of because they're right on the side of the road if you go down um locks Pond down to Lake View right where where the road crosses and the new dam is in there from Lake wyola there's a property on the right hand side um the woman owns and I saw the knotweed coming across the road and up in her yard and on the other side there's a a beautiful property that is right on the watershed area of the water that comes down that on the left hand side at the end of the road there is covered that yard and it's their personal property it's not on right away there's so much knotweed in that yard and they have put these gigantic rocks alongside the creek it's fast running so I don't know whether you call it a creek or whatever you want to stream and the knotweed is coming up in the cracks and I it creates a lot of anxiety when I see that because if we have a flood and a lot of water goes down there or even if we don't little pieces of those not weed roots are going to break off because they're right on that Waterway and they're going to go right down into Leverett and they're going to hook on the sides of the creek and it's going to look like the Deerfield river which if you have ever gone I've gone down twice this year it's the river is completely contaminated the whole way down so that's what we don't want to see here in shutesbury we want to see us get rid of this not weed and we have the potential to do that um so I have submitted uh seven potential sites I did my best to do this with the assessors map and try to jaap POS where they were with where I thought they were on that map because there's not really any other way that I could see that was easy for you as the commission to know where these pieces were I certainly am willing to drive around with you or drive beside you and show me where these patches are because the one that to me it was the most difficult to site was the one on Schoolhouse Road because it's there aren't really houses right there and it's right before the bus turned around but I couldn't figure out on that assessor map so I apologize for that I did my best um so yes we are looking to uh see if uh Steve from the the department of um roads can be allowed to spray those particular areas to start with those areas I looked to find areas that were not on Wetlands I looked at that assessor map and ju stose that with I put the Wetland there's a uh an overlay that you can do with the wetlands and I didn't see wetlands in any of these areas now I know I talked to Penny Jake and she said well you know the wetlands aren't always marked on the map so that's why you all are very important so that we don't do anything that we shouldn't be doing and you know we're hoping that we can get your approval to do this I know that there's a lot of concern in town There's been already uh on next door there's been a petition to not have glyphosate sprayed um and there's a lot of I'm unresearched information on there I'll just say that um about you know it's going we're going to spray we're going to kill the pollinators with the spray and that isn't how it works so I don't want to get into that because that I we knew that there was going to be push back and I understand people are concerned about a chemical I am an organic Gardener I do not want to use chemicals this plant is almost impossible to eradicate any other way it's if anybody has any good ideas we have done months and months of research trying to figure out some other ways to do it to smother it to do this to that and if you do the research that we've done you will see that almost no one has had success on a Town level with getting rid of something you might have luck in your own yard if you have a small patch and you can keep up with it but for uh the town DPW to do that is not manageable as far as we can see so there you have it and if we have any questions I'm happy to answer whatever I can um yeah I have questions I just some ideas too one question so you're talking fol or spray not stem treatment right um we've been working uh in well we've had Brian Colin who is uh he's a an ecologist he's Environmental restoration person he's a wetland scientist he is a advanced field botanist and he has been um talking with us about this he's the one that actually he gave a workshop for invasive species in shuberry put on by the library a couple of years ago and um he's not weat as his specialty and we thought injecting stems but he said that that that is a it's very labor intensive when you have a lot a big stand and we have some really large stands B the needle breaks a lot and you have to have a large enough um in diameter stock in order to get the needle in there the small ones you can't get a needle in so that's not really um very effective and all that I I keep reading I was just reading the natural resources defense council's uh treatment of invasive species and it can be injecting can be very effective for a very small site but it's not very effective for a large site that fular spraying actually uses less uh chemical and over time because the first spray knocks it down 90% And then you're just trying to get any Little Sprouts that that come up until it reaches the point where you stop spraying and any Sprouts that come up you can dig up but you can't dig up a big thing and as the for the Coalition we are putting together a group who is going to probably going to be three or four of us who monitor the areas if we see one little area there was on uh pelum Hill the not weed had crossed the road and there was like one or two little Sprouts that had come up and we dug that up ourselves and got all of it and we will monitor that area to make sure that it doesn't come up again but until unless the area is really small digging is not an effective thing because the roots really travel far like down at the bottom of um up by Lake wola there they're going across from that neighbor's yard across the street that way and then across the street the other way and we want to treat the patch across the street across uh Lo whatever that name of that road is Lake View Road so it's it travels under the roads it travels many many feet and so it's just going to keep spreading everywhere well so that was kind of my other question is you guys are are only right away right you're just working in the right of way and then well right at the moment that is what we felt like would be the most palatable for to approach you all with and let us get started on eliminating some of this yes there are more patches up by me I don't know how far the right away is on pelum hill before it reaches uh pelum um but that patch has gone into the woods well that's the thing it's if you you treat only in the right of way like you said but then you know 10 feet away it's it's private property and there it is again and but you not all not all of yes you are correct but not all of those areas have that a lot of the the way that this knotweed has been spread through our town was years ago unknowingly when they plowed or they would see it and they would cut it down and then it would lay on the ground and then it would Sprout and so that's what you have you have going down um Prescott Road there are just little patches that have come up because the plow went down knocked a few pieces there then a few 25 ft further there's another little patch that has sprouted up or on um locks p Pond going down there's a ditch on the side of the road so when a lot of water runs through that ditch like we have 4 inches of rain like we had earlier in the summer and a mountain of water goes down there those roots on the thing break off and then they travel down the ditch and they get caught and then they sprout again so it's not always then goes into some people's property there is there are those properties and that may there may not ever be anything to do about those people's property and I feel bad for them if they try to sell their house because I sure wouldn't want to buy a house that had not weed in the yard and yeah and I've encountered that I had somebody say I have these few little patches of knotweed in my yard maybe you could come and look I think I can dig it up well that was on um West pelum uh and when I looked at the property I was horrified because he had bought the house a few years ago they had put in a new septic system whether they brought in contaminated fill or whether they put the septic system in and then cut down the knotweed and tried to cover it up with lots of uh hay and stuff and so it looked good when they bought it now completely surrounding the leech field is knotweed and the knotweed's going to get in that leech field that's a nightmare sorry it's terrible so yeah we just we want to get started somewhere and that's where why I tried to find those isolated spots okay well my my just initial thought would be that um that we should do uh you know a site visit a little tour I don't know how many we can get to in a day but I think absolutely you know that the if Commissioners are interested or what whoever I mean I'll I'll go and anybody else but we should go and be able and identify ones that that are jurisdictional for the commission um you know who knows maybe not all of them will be um but right and that's why I came across the seventh one happen stance and I put it on there I thought well not all of these might be viable so yeah yeah and I just I think that would be a start finding out if if there's Wetlands nearby or if it's buffers Zone if it's if we have any jurisdiction with any of them um and then kind of going from there I don't know what the Commissioners think yeah I think um uh Bob here I I think uh if they they are in a wetland or they're within 100 feet of a wetland I know that utilities that I work with um Railways power lines uh for vegetative control invol involving herbicides there needs to be a filing a determination or notice so I think I think I think that's the key is if they are within that 100 foot or 200 foot of a river then a filing would be required okay yeah I think so too um so that' be a fun little road trip so I'm happy to to join your you know in my car before and show you where they are that might be the easiest thing yeah I think that sounds that sounds good um Jan is our our uh site visit organizer so um Jan can you work with Pam on setting that up thank you um so uh if there's no more comments from the commission at this point Miriam has a comment Mariam yeah thanks and I I think uh there might be other people that want to make comments let me just lower my hand so I appreciate um the the presentation uh from Pam and I was at the Board of Health meeting last night so I appreciated hearing from Mary Joe MAF and um hearing um some of the presentations that have been recorded from past meetings um and I you know I just have some comments and there was a letter that Mary Joe Johnson and I submitted to the commission as our personal comments and I just want to be clear that um just so you understand neither of us have not we on our Properties or in the right of ways near our properties so this isn't necessarily affecting us individually but we have concerns about the environmental health of our community um um and I I would like to just point out that um speaking for myself and I think I can say this for Mary Joe as well that that we also have been researching this topic we're interested in science and we've been doing a deep dive into this um not just now and not just in the last year but for many years I've had an interest both in um invasive species control as well as native uh plant habitat and also the effects of herbicides and pesticides so um you know I think we all come with our own skill sets and and pots of knowledge and we should be respecting each other's um knowledge based so what I'm really um want to make a comment about is really about looking to the commission to kind of spell out a process for how to go forward because um there's different boards kind of it's it's sort of like the Blind Men and the Elephant you know kind of everybody's looking at a different piece of it and how it affects the particular jurisdiction of that board um but I think that the Conservation Commission has a broad environmental charge and um a jurisdictional um map that that um overlays with with this project um so um I also just want to make a comment as we think about how notwhat is sprouting up on the rights of ways um yes it's happening because of ground disturbance from plowing um it's also happening because not we likes Edge habitat and so we see it along the banks of rivers and streams and um ponds but we also see it along the edges of Roads because that's Edge habitat which it it tends to like um we started a petition and um we haven't yet submitted it to the select board but we're um at last count we were I think up to 125 signatures mostly from shutesbury residents which I think speaks to how much the community cares about this issue both wanting to see issues addressing invasive species but also wanting to have some say in how it's approached and seeing um the least toxic approach used there's always going to be trade-offs between invasives control and sort of environmental health issues and um we need to find the right balance um and I'm hoping that um that will be thought about and I I think it's also important to think about when we're talking about this having a realistic recognition that this is a very pernicious weed and that eradication is probably not possible in shutesbury we're really talking about containment and control of spread we're not going to remove it completely it's going to keep sprouting up and it's going to keep sprouting and needing uh successive treatments even in areas where it has been treated so we're talking about a um project that is going to require significant resources over a number of years um thinking about herbicide treatment I know that there are differences of opinion about the health risks of glyphosate but there is growing evidence that glyphosate has impacts both to the nervous system and to the gut biome that it acts not just as an herbicide but also as a pesticide and destroys and affects microorganisms in the soil it's both water soluble and is susceptible to Wind Drift when it's particularly with folar spraying so that there's solid scientific evidence showing that it does disperse to non-target species and non-target areas when foler spraying is used um when I heard about the seven proposed sites last night I looked through my records and I did include in our letter the information I have about the presence of wetlands in those particular areas and I believe at least six of them are in areas that fall into the jurisdiction of the Conservation Commission either Riverfront area or the aura of wetland and in some areas possibly in a wetland um depending on where exactly the stand is but they all appear to be um within the jurisdiction of the commission and there is because there is intense public interest I'm really um asking the commission to think about and maybe perhaps commit to a process um that allows for public review of the data and and the public having input allowing for conditions that allow the the public to be notified if there's going to be spraying or treatment in their areas of their homes and we think a notice of intent is the most appropriate uh process for this um because it allows the commission to ask for reasonable options and to have an analysis about whether um the option that is um presented is the least adverse option possible and what else might be practicable um it also allows for possibly a five-year permit with renewals and Reporting and monitoring um Provisions so that there could be reporting to the commission perhaps um some in monitoring notification to the public all of those things seem important and valuable um to reassure the public that there is a good safe process and that their voices have been heard so um that is all I have to say thank you thank you maram y thank you um Melody you have your hand up maybe not she might have mute on sorry sorry this isn't computer this is this is Mary Joe um and I'm not too familiar with the way that the mouse works took me a minute um so I just wanted to speak as someone that's not like fully familiar with the um the concom process um or the process of approval of use of toxic substances um um and just to say that um it it for for me as a member of the public um the fact that it's potentially used without informing the public is is disturbing um and in all fairness um the scientific Community is pretty divided on whether or not glyphosate is safe there's a lot of pressure from the manufacturer of glyphosate on the EPA on legislators um and um from from the industry particularly um and the industry stands to lose billions of dollars if um it is actually eventually decided that glyphosate does cause cancer and all of these other um human health problems that it appears that it does cause from the Independent res search so um this is this is actually it is actually alarming um to to think about the fact that potentially this is being sprayed on public property where children play where we walk along the roads without even signage um my my personal experience has always been that if my neighbors Ed pesticides they would put a sign out but I haven't even seen that courtesy from shb it's my understanding and and I just did a visual and you can correct me if I'm wrong but um I think that it was sprayed on the new library site um and you know as a member of the public you know there's no signage there's nothing um and it just seems like given that especially given that um the research is pointing in many different directions that there are studies that show that the research is biased like statistically if you do them if if you look at the studies all together there is evidence of bias um I just think we need a little bit slower and more thoughtful and more open process um and and I'm hoping that the Conservation Commission in looking at this um will be able to do that my thought is if you're if you're able to work figure out how to work with kneed in areas that you need to protect like Conservation Area Wetlands whatever um you know why not pursue that other places too why just you know why disturb offend cause this this level of concern which you know when I I was a part of the conversation on next door um and I saw how upset people were as part of the reason why I I wanted to start a petition because I think it's really important that the public be informed um and I'm sure that the the subduing not weed group did a lot of kind of part searching too about their decision um it makes sense to me that this process the same kind of conversation and reflection has got to be done on a bigger scale um in order to bring people along and in order for the public to feel like like their concerns are being taken into account and that the town is is doing their best to pursue a a cautious um way a a way of least harm and a way that is transparent all right thank you um it was all very interesting um you know I mean I think basically our our first step would be to to like we said have organize a site visit to all those locations for the commission and we'll take a look and we'll we'll see if if if the areas we feel you know if we feel like there's Wetlands nearby um you know we'll move from from there but there may be a need to have the wetlands delineated and that kind of thing but the first basic First Step would be to do do a site visit so so yeah if Pam if you could work with Jan on um finding a day I'm I'm kind of hoping we'd be able to get to all seven them of them in a maybe you know a morning on a weekend or I is the best thing to email email the best best uh mode of communication yeah Jan does that work for you that works for me okay my email is shy. janice. Rowan gmail.com okay got it all right I will email you great now we have one more public comment um Miriam Rob I'm the Rob Park I have a few comments on this first is it saying that the best time to PL true is 20 years ago second best time is today and the same is true with an invasive species the best time to address them was 20 years ago it's true now it's today so I think we are not educated enough as a town and not prepared enough to spray but we are educated ated enough to get rid of the little patches Now by digging and I know that's a lot of flavor but we had a 125 signatures on that petition and even if one out of 10 people is willing to put some work behind their words we could treat a dozen small patches by carefully Excavating them so why don't we tell the petition signers to put their work where their words are and get out and dig them and I think that it would be great if the um not weed committee could do such a thing you've got 125 names of people who are interested in it wow that's that that is that is one of our goals and I have we have put out some through our group we have tried to I've we have one person who interest Ed in digging I have two replaced knees so digging is not really much of an option for me at 68 with two new knees but um I can certainly you know and they're it's hard to find those really small patches at this point most of them are probably too big to dig but I'm willing to look at that because that is the ideal is to get it when it's small and get rid of it well I I drive a Prescot road every every day and there's at least a half a dozen patches that are uh dining table size or smaller some front area and it it is all of that is either Riverfront or Wetlands but I think the concom would be willing to work with a volunteer committee to get those addressed by excavation uh hand tool excavation rather than by spraying and I we would prefer to do that so and I understand that the committee may want a multipronged approach but I didn't hear one word about that in the presentation to the select board all I heard was spray spray spray no that is not true we we was very clear about the first approach that we want to have is to dig out the small areas to map it and to dig out the small areas with a group of people worked like that's right so anyway that that was that is that's the first line of defense with naweed is to early detection and removing the small patches as they pop up the second point I want to make the second point I want to make is that signage as Mary Jo said is vital that makes sense to me too yeah keep in mind not weed is edible people can forage it they can forge it in the summer for the top shoots and they can forge it in the spring for St Sprouts true we're spraying a chemical on it I think we have an ethical obligation probably as well as a legal obligation to tell people don't use this yeah I agree I think that makes sense to me is to put signage out it's a very simple thing to do and until everything like that is in place I am opposed to spray but when it's in place then we really have to to look at that is that the only option uh I I hate to think it it did but who knows well thank you right we'll take Mary Joe one more short comment I think we're getting to the end of this discussion yes um we have um our our major focus is on early detection and removal and we are trying um we've had two seminars one at the shes Fairy Town Hall for ey naturalist mapping we have instruct instuctions on in Naturals mapping this has been on next door with asking people to sign up so I hope I will repost uh sign up instructions for for that um because what we really need and the best way and our major focus is on early detection and removal and we would love if people who are opposed to spraying which we absolutely understand why people would be actually very difficult um would sign up for this um we have had uh um two seminars one at the shuberry Town Hall and one um on zoom on on using I naturalist and early detection um it is our primary way of stopping it but we can't do it alone um it's a great thing even for young people to do go out and map this it's very easy to use I naturalist um so yes I'll send that out and I do hope that more people sign up because we haven't had especially in shuberry we've had people in other places but especially in shuberry we have not had people signing up to do mapping which doesn't require any physical you can just take a picture you can go home and you can do it so yes I will send that out and I do hope that people sign up for that thank you I just um add one last comment briefly okay thanks um I appreciate that Mary Joe and I think that there's a lot of people who are interested in being a part of this I have heard some feedback from people in the community saying that they've reached out to the not weed Coalition and felt like um you know they didn't get much of a response is kind of the feedback I got so I just want to give you that feedback that I think I've heard that from three different people who said you know that they were interested in getting involved and felt um somehow um not not invited or welcomed so I I I want to speak for those people I don't know the details I just want to give you that feedback I think that um given the concerns of some of the folks in the community about glyphosate spraying one of the ethical dilemmas is that if people start using in naturalist and start flagging um not we near their properties they may be concerned that that'll then be used for glyphosate spraying that they won't have any control over so I I think that it would be really helpful to get this process clarified so that the public has some trust um and can kind of participate um wholeheartedly without any reservation so that's just my thought about it thanks all right um thank you everybody for all of your comments um that's a it's a topic that obviously people care about and that's great um so but I think our next move in terms of the the commission um is is a site visit I think that's what we need so Pam and Jan you work together and um we'll set something up great thank you so much appre time I know you all put in so much time for this and everything else that you do well that's it's a good one I I I worked on a project where we uh built a flood plane actually um along a trip to the Fort River and it was I'm G it was a 40 40 foot wide by like 150 foot long bank and it was all covered with not weed but the idea of the project was to actually lower the elevation of the of the to to create a flood plane so we were able to excavate down like three to four feet in in most areas and we did get rid of the knotweed in that large of area but yeah but it but the thing was we we trucked off all the soil you know we were removing soil um a huge amount of soil so in most sites you just don't you just don't usually dig down four feet in that much of an area to to do it but it did work but anyway um okay so thank you very much um commission I don't think we really have anything else it's kind of late already it's 911 um Jan if we have any other site visits let us know I'm not sure uh before before you get away from me uh September 8th 10 o'clock Mark Whitman for his easement walk and see touring the at Kestrel is September 12th at 3:45 okay so I didn't have the eth on my on my calendar is that some that just came up what time did you say that was we just got that one today so that was September 8th at 10 amm that works for me I'll add it to my calendar and that's that lot 151 Mark is that where we're going I don't know the address do you know it Scott no I don't I'd have to go back and see if he provided that I sent him an email and asked but we'll get it this is Mark whitmann with the with the easan right oh is it Whitman yeah yeah so I think that is it's called lot 151 I don't know if it even has a number there on um on Leverett road but it's right on Leever road but okay I know where it is but um yeah you guys can the uh when he was he submitted for an amendment um to an oad and there was some maps that went around at that point um anyway we we'll figure out where it is I can send you guys the maps for that but okay 10: a.m. on the 8th sounds good good all right there's nothing else um we need a motion to adjourn so motioned second oh second I guess we lost Bob I don't know where he went but there's three of us so we can we can close the meeting good thing otherwise we'd have to stay here forever I know I know hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi all right good night everyone good night