##VIDEO ID:iKLl7IJbizc## e e e e e e Hey Hey Beth Bob here can you hear me okay yeah oh solid gold great thanks be back really all right hello everyone I see danan I see Bob I don't see Scott I see mato you just wait a couple more minutes for Scott I think he said last time that he might not make it to this meeting yeah um yeah I don't I don't remember so we'll just start start um that I think he did text me is that you Scott that number one 240 no now I think he was planning on coming um because I think I emailed him a bit and told him that um Mark was coming oh there he is be Beth can I sorry to interrupt can I ask who the phone number uh 24731 7379 is if they could just let me know their name for the purpos of the minutes hi my name's Anna Mano thank you all right I think Bob must be back right it's 702 on October 24th 2024 and I'm calling this meeting of the shutesbury Conservation Commission to order um this meeting is being recorded welcome everybody um first thing on the agenda is comments from the chair um the only news I have is I've been to um a couple meetings lately where coverts in shutesbury were being discussed or potential um covert projects meaning um grant funding one group was the um Fort River forward Group which focuses on the Fort River Watershed um the group was organized by the Fort River Watershed Association um and they had that meeting some folks were talking about that furog is probably doing a covert assessment for shy which is very exciting and I'm actually talking to somebody tomorrow about that finding out what's going on with that um the other was a woman from um nature conservancy who was talking about a big grant that they are interested in doing that's all about culverts and it's kind of um covering a large area so some cworks in shoot spry might be included in that if we uh bring them forward to them we need to suggest them so I'm just just starting to hear this stuff and I'm going to get some more information on it um but both situations are like pretty big grants that could cover a number of culs in shoots Berry I mean we'd have to look more into it but it could be very exciting so I was really really thrilled to talk talk to all those people um that's all this is Matteo's first meeting he opened the meeting um and uh has been doing great work as our new land use clerk thanks Matteo for being here um that's all I have for my comments and Scott do you have anything for conservation Land Management hey looks like I'm in the witness protection program there we go I'll try to sit like this with my camera I'm in a hotel room with bad lighting but um you don't look that bad all right good I uh not a lot I talked with Charlie icman as for our last vote on uh authorizing Charlie to do some of our conservation deed restriction monitoring and um so he is in progress and lining that up I did talk with uh some folks preliminarily about doing uh looking at some of the bridge Replacements on Southbrook Conservation Area we have a bridge there that's looking pretty shabby and it's it's um I I think it is a bit of a safety hazard uh they use that for part of the snowmobile trails there in Southbrook and so I did talk with uh some of the folks who had done our previous Bridge Replacements to see if we could get an estimate for what it might cost to do some of that and I think that's congruent with some of the planning we had talked about for Southbrook and doing some of those improvements for trails and so maybe this would be a first phase that we could consider um so been doing some of that um I think the other item would be on the west Quabbin Woodlands track that um that we own I've been talking with Stuart from kestel we did talk with the uh highway department and applied for a curb cut there I think we looked at at like a 20x20 space um for a parking lot there I think Stuart was thinking something maybe a little bit different um because it is rather narrow along the side of the road and um I I went back to the highway department to see if maybe a rectangular shaped curb cut could work if the highway to Department had some reservations around safety for people pulling in and whether or not they'd have room to turn around there and so we're I'm GNA plan a meet with Stuart out there at some point and maybe talk about some options that we could bring back but um I think those are the highlights unless anyone has any questions for me oh that's all all sounds great and I I saw a little bit our our um our budget and there's a line item that is strictly for that suar mountain um monitoring so we're good they have a a and that would be good to know Beth did they have like a for lack of a better term it's like a um endowment right that has been made that will pay for the ongoing monitoring and yeah may be good for us to think about as we're talking about other uh potential monitoring ways that that something could be made there and and uh some money is there to kind of help offset the monitoring associated with those conservation deed restrictions but yep definitely all right thank you Scott um Jan recent site visits yes there were four of them this time between meetings I went to 70 Lake Drive for a preconstruction site visit to look at the erosion controls for the project that's going on there the sediment curtain was in place um they're going to have helical piles drilled I think tomorrow and it all look good so we let him go ahead on the 21st I went to 29 to pelum Hill Road with Beth uh we were looking at what they needed to be able to take down a couple of trees there lot is heavily wooded I'll note um they were within 100 feet of the Wetland so we suggested a small project permit to remove a couple of trees Garden could grow then on the 21st um I went with Maryann antonellis and Penny Jakes to look at the erosion controls that have been in place at the new library lot um what they had in place was still there but they've done well you might have seen online they've done a heck of a lot of construction there in the last couple of weeks in particular around the outer perimeter of the new library and some of the space there and when they did they got into some of the U silk curtains uh a few of them were a little floppy and a couple were undermined um so we made a list for them to go go ahead and and get that stuff tucked back in um there's a space along back by the well we had previously suggested some sort of demarcation so that when they put in the uh Plumbing for the well and the electric for the well they're aware that they can't drop their dirt onto the other side of that zone uh they hadn't done it so we reiterated that they needed a snow fence or safety tape or um some way for the workers to know not to dump the dirt there or or they could take the dirt and put it in the in the back open part of the lot um and we asked them to get back to us when they finished these um Corrections and we'd come back out and have another look and if we don't hear from them we'll go back out in another couple weeks and I guess talk to them again they know what's they know where the trouble lies in any event and the last one uh Beth and I did today we went back out to the lever Road property where Mark Whitman is trying to uh get set up for a conservation restriction he has had the property uh pinned along both the inner and outer edge so it will be easier to um monitor the site and make sure that nobody has uh crossed over the boundary or that the new owners have crossed into what is the protected land so that looked good great thanks Jan and thanks for keeping tabs on what's going on at the library it's biggest construction project certainly that shsb seen in a while although I guess lock Pond Culver was pretty big too sounds great Bob you have your hand up yes thank you and thank you very much Jan for doing the uh the inspections that's super helpful I appreciate your work um had a quick question for you the sedimentation control is uh laid out in the perimeter that was on the plan has there been any clearing of trees outside of that uh that perimeter no I haven't gone outside the perimeter as far as I could tell okay great thank you all right um next on our agenda is minutes and we've got on the agenda we've got the minutes of October 10th but I think um Jan had a question about the the time that it ended and then also questions about some of the Amendments that happened in that meeting and I just earlier today went to see if I could watch the video of it and it wasn't posted yet on YouTube just to get those final details um didn't see it so I think maybe we just don't vote on that set of minutes tonight um and then Matteo has finished up I think he sent him around two sets of old minutes which is wonderful and so maybe we'll put all of those on uh our November 14th agenda and look at those all then and probably the minutes for tonight too um all right almost 7:15 I was kind of surprised that that meeting wasn't up yet on YouTube I don't know how quickly Grace gets those up there or how that process is but we are in the midst of the election stuff yeah no it's fine it's fine almost 7:15 but I'm waiting just to bother everybody you should wait because it's the rules right it's the rules have to let my cat in just a moment all right at 7:15 um next on our agenda is lot h151 lever Road Pro proposed conservation restriction and Mark is here to um again to talk a little bit more about his conser his request for us to accept his conservation restriction oh I think you're muted Mark better yep ah well you can hear me whether that's better or not um so um Jan mentioned already that Beth and I and Jan walked the property and today I had my survey up there a couple weeks ago and um he battled through 30 um beast thingss but Yellow Jackets um but he got yeah it's terrible so we didn't go if you were on the property I I stayed away from a laurel where he said they were but we we're able to look at enough that it's understood that uh what he did was um pin the uh building envelope Corners as well as stake those corners and then flagged them he also uh staked and flagged all the existing pins which were around the boundary so that's all been done our thought is in discussing this the three of us was that um perhaps when the if you folks take this restriction on uh once a year when you're doing your um review of IT walking the property uh maybe bring flag tape with you and uh put it up on the Stak so every year we have new flag tape out there so we won't lose those locations obviously there's pins in every location so a surveyor could go out there and take care of it the future but this would make it easier um the other is that uh as you know I had the meeting with the planning board and they had said that uh what we all agree on is um it's fine with them as long as it meets the state requirements which is just following this um formula or form that was given to the planning board by my Engineers quite some time ago it's the standard form for a conservation easement and you folks were have uh access to it or have it available to you and uh Beth had brought one item up which was uh under um one purposes and it was item number H he felt like number H should be under the definitions not under the purposes so I have this in a format where I can redo it and I can change that and put that in uh the position she wanted to be in the only other items to discuss on here um there are a couple that were highlighted ones on page 20 which um has nothing to do with us it's notice notice and approval for additional Provisions um it says if this is a jointly held CR um and goes on to explain what you do if it's jointly held CR and it's not so I would just remove that wording delete that from uh item four additional Provisions notice and approval there are a couple others in here uh on page oh I guess I'm sorry I said page 20 it says page something of 20 doesn't give the actual page so it's uh I'm on item number uh B well C hold on under four item number c access we had discussed this a while ago and we discussed it again today that my interest is to make sure that the parcel the entire 18 Acres stays on the tax rolls we can use all the help and shits are that we can to try and combat high taxes and uh this would allow the person me for now and a person purchasing it to be able to have a 18 acre parcel instead of a 4 acre building envelope and uh I think that this allows um the owner of the property or us uh in combination to discuss whether or not the 14 acres of conserved land restricted land should have uh Public Access or not we've talked about that on both of the walkabouts that if I am able to allow the person owning the 4 acre building envelope to also allow or own the 14 acre restricted area that they should have the right to decide who's on that property and who's not um only makes sense to me they're paying taxes on it so it make sense and also we have um an issue if we started to allow people on that property there's a lot of wetland up front which would make it difficult for someone to get on the property without disrupting a wetland area so I think it makes more sense that they would allow somebody on it they I mean the it appears it's um with their approval they could allow certain things like bird watching and um other non-invasive uses of the property um so I can take care of that one and then the uh below that D extinguishment um there's a topic uh number two is proceeds it says insert relevant information such as the CPA land or PC Grant there are no grants or anything so I think that's another one that I can just remove I think that's it yeah that's it so with your okay what I would do is uh uh over the next couple of weeks I'll take this and uh make those changes and then I can submit that to you folks as the final and uh you can see if that works and we can discuss it uh at the next meeting in November and see if we can finalize this thing boy that was short and sweet not bad six minutes pretty pretty good um I guess I'm wondering with that section about public access um I mean I I look forward to looking through the final document the whole document as a whole and really um you know taking it in but I'm just wondering say the per person who owns the property decides that yes they want to allow um Public Access I'm assuming somewhere in here it's not they're not then allowed to almost you know create any kinds of trails or just be sort of you know I don't know I I need to look at it a bit more um Let me let me read it to you uh Beth on it's on under number three prohibited uses and reserved rights it's really really strict I didn't realize how strict it is um but there's a reason for it it's the beginning of this explains why it's that strict it's um the premises will will be retained in perpetuity substantially in its n natural Scenic and vegetative condition so going back to the paragraph I just um made comment about which is give it to you again here really sorry the pages don't have numbers um it's under category or paragraph three prohibited uses of and reserved rights then you go to B number three the grantour and its invitees are permitted to conduct non-commercial passive recreational uses of the premises such as nature study birding Wildlife observation walking on existing trails and similar passive recreation activities provided such uses do not alter the topography including but not limited to the landscape or environmental qualities of the premises this entire um I say paragraph but section prohibited uses and Reserve rights goes through to explain what can can't be done that's very very restrictive um the idea is that it should stay the way is forever so again another reason why I think that we should probably um not allow the public on and then if the if the owner of the property is going to allow somebody on they must sign something I would suppose something like that that would say that they have read this understand their um what they're allowed to do and what they can't do um very short list of what they're allowed to do and you know everything else is not allowed so I think that's pretty simple so let me yeah let me make those changes then you guys can take take that whole document go through it it's the state's document so we're not um you know we're not diverting from that it has to be the state's document so that the secretary environment will sign on it saying that it meets the requirements okay sound good yeah good it's got some yeah it's got a lot of things I was looking for bikes and it does say trail bikes under prohibited use of so but yeah we can go through it a little bit more but um I'm sorry Beth what I'd like to do is get it to you guys soon enough that you can you know all of you can take a look at before the next meeting so that you're not being you know 20 Pages dropped on you you have to look at that night so I'll get it to you next week or so okay that's great Bob you have a comment yeah I just wanted to say that um one thing the state is looking for is something that that that is good for the PE for the common wealth and I think certainly uh putting this amount of land in restriction would would meet that uh that hurdle and that uh you know it's it is will be essentially a sanctuary for wildlife and so on so I think that's great I I wanted to add a specific question mark um is hunting uh mentioned in the Restriction at all either for against or or left out excuse me it is and I'm I'm going to have to um uh hold off on answering that because I can't remember remember I think that uh it is not oh hold on a second here we go no person may damage disturb or remove any part or portion of of the property or any resource uh real natural personal cultural historic except through hunting fishing or trapping were permitted and carried out in accordance with regulations issued by the division of fisheries and wildlife subject to Mass General laws 1301 321 CMR where the written authorization of the uh division of fisheries and wildlife um I as the owner of the property would not allow any hunting I think that I would probably have the right to make that decision for future owners as well but um the the state does allow it so I think that probably I would leave it alone and the future owner can make a decision as to whether they're going to allow hunting a or not but again you've got to follow some pretty strict regulations you can't create any paths you know so it's a little little more difficult than just saying yes we can hunt no we can't great thank you appreciate that yeah I can't believe I found it so quick okay any more questions from the commission for Mark no any questions from the public for Mark Penny uh well this is really a question for both the commission and Mark is um is the commission assessing a fee for for holding the CR which as um I would strongly recommend Bob had brought oh go ahead I'm sorry no go ahead Marky go ahead type A personalities um Bob had brought this up um I think at the first walkabout and then we discussed it a little further uh you had mentioned a town that had had a fee put in place I thought was a bit for what we're doing here but the idea of putting a fee in place penny that will um be enough that if you folks as a commission decide you want somebody other than the commission to do the walkabout and the you know the uh checking of the resource every year that money would be there uh to make sure that happens and um I don't have a problem with that I think it makes a lot of sense um I think Bob had mentioned $5,000 but I you know I've Got a Feeling uh the 18 Acres can be walked in less than an hour you know the boundary um and if somebody's charging what 150 bucks an hour uh and they're charging you 300 because it's a 1 hour walk and a one hour filling out of paperwork or whatever to get their 300 bucks um you know if I put in $3,000 it's 10 years um you know doing it once a year so we'll talk we I think we can talk a little bit more about what the fee should be or what the escrow should be I guess is the way to put it the fee will be determined by you folks and wherever you hire but my concept or my comment regarding that Penny was that even if the board is doing the uh review they should get paid um I don't know how you exactly work that but I mean when I get a building permit I pay pay a building permit fee when I you know when I do anything I'm paying a fee so why shouldn't the Conservation Commission get a fee for uh reviewing a piece of land on a yearly bis thanks I urge the commission to look at um how the fee was structured for um the Chuck deari property which the Conservation Commission holds the CR for and which as you know uh monitoring visits have been conducted for a number of years now and you have to remember that this is for perpetuity it's not for 10 years so um as you consider what that Fe might be if you choose to assess one you have to think of it over the Long Haul thanks yeah I would think penny that the um the owner of the land would be required to continue um putting money in place um I don't I don't think that's how it's work I I think it's a one-time assessment I don't think the commission can uh is if I understand it correctly the commission cannot charge an additional fee at a later time the continue payment to hire someone to do a monitoring visit so it's it's pretty much a one-time big uh I don't I don't know is that a regulation you're seeing from the state or something or that that's my understanding from when I was on the commission before and I worked on setting up the [Music] um the CR for the deari property and that is what I came to understand that it was you have one opportunity to make an assessment for something like this so yeah we might be using different terminology um to me it's a it's a separate it's being it's a separate entity each year in other words we're we're I don't think the commission has the authority to do that well I guess we got to find out yep yeah so if the the commission can check that that would be great let me know how that how that works but it seems as though it's I mean if I was building a house or if I build a house and then I want to put on addition then there's a permit that I has have to pay for which is an additional to the assessment that was or the cost of getting the original permit it seems like that would fall into the same sort of criteria but again I don't know so let's check it out and see it works yeah it seems to me that um you know the people who buy it they're not the ones that really uh install you know put in the conservation restriction it was you as the developer and as the so I yeah I can't see that we would be charging them in the future I think it's a one-time kind of thing um Scott you had your hand up and I'm also curious what is Charlie Eisner charging this year I think uh so my understanding is much along the same lines as you Beth and and Penny I think we our decision is whether or not we would want to accept to be the custodian of the CR and whatever monies we would want to bring in as escrow to help offset that monitoring cost I think we have that's kind of done at the stage when we accept it and I I too don't believe we have the ability to assess that yearly um I I think that was done um you know when the decision was made whether or not we wanted to bring this in or accept it um I did want to say before I get to um answering that question to I really appreciate Mark you going out and marking the envelope and um all of that I think you know you've I've just been very impressed with how you've worked to try to address the um you know the to set this up for success to make things clear in terms of what's protected or not and so I just wanted to call that out and say thank you for all of your hard work and pulling that together um for consideration by the commission and um you know the quick walkabouts that we've done it certainly seems like there's a lot of valuable habitat there um worth protecting I think uh regarding how much we have paying for like to Charlie icman I want to say it was like three I'd have to go back and look at the notes uh Madam chair but I think it was like 300 or 350 something like that for that Walkabout so maybe you know I that might be a good um Baseline for us to consider what would what would you need in esro to be able to pay for that type of monitoring in perpetuity you know with the the proceeds of that being thrown off each year and I'm just not familiar enough with what was put in escrow for that account but that might be worth looking into yeah well we can look into it all so Beth I just wanted to make comment on or respond to something you had said and that's that I um I am putting it into conservation restriction to create it as a uh to allow this to be a buildable piece of of property the person who purchases it from me will be aware of that or is aware of that because they've seen seen all the documents and will have researched all all those documents before they make the purchase and they'll be signing a document from me that says they have research and understand what they're purchasing so they will understand that this has a conservation restriction that's attached to it obviously and they will understand there has to be monitoring of it on a yearly basis so again I don't know what the law is but it seems to me that the common sense says that if there is a requirement that allow that a necessity to um check it once a year to make sure there are no violations or whatever the time frame is um that there is a cost that's going to be attributed to that and that uh there's no way that we could ever put enough money in perpet to I mean it' be more money than the property is worth going to throw $300,000 down there to make sure it's you know 100 Years of escro money I mean something's got to be done so that this can continue to pay for itself where the board is not being strapped with the town is not being strapped with it or anybody else I go to who takes the restrictions and being strapped with it so I would I yeah it would be really great if um if somebody finds out about that regulation and lets me know as soon as possible so that I can figure out how to work within that realm I'll talk to my attorney and see what if he knows another way to go through this to make sure that we can make sure this is not becoming a burden on the board in the future yeah no that's that's great thank you for all those for being thoughtful about it all and um and I mean yeah the other option obviously would be some sort of an agreement at the sale where they're actually saying that they would pay every but I don't know if that's legal or not so we'll find out yeah yeah thanks again I appreciate it I'll get back to you in a week or so with the document and uh should I send that to concom shsb as well is to you Beth or y That's great very good thanks again for your time okay thanks Mark byebye right all right next on the agenda is lot 032 the library project um we're looking at the restoration inspection report from Ward Ward Smith talking about that and some mowing I see Maryanne and Penny penny is um gonna present for us tonight Penny are you there I just unmuted myself okay um do you have a preference as to which order we talk about things Beth no no okay well let's start with um Ward Smith sm's report then so just to recap things because um I think there are some people on the commission who might not have been here when this process started um in23 uh the um Town Maryanne submitted a notice of intent for restoration of two um small Wetlands on what is now the library site um one is bbw2 and one is bbw3 um bbw2 which is the parcel that AB buts the Eastern property line um with um a buts Nancy dillman's property um was had a large pile of loan placed on it by we don't know who a previous owner quite some time ago and um there is a wetland to the east of that and there is a wetland to the west of that of the LOM the LOM was removed and a plan was submitted for restoration which included um seeding the area with Wetland um seeds from New England Wetland plants and also putting in um I think a dozen or so Wetland shrubs and plants and we did that and Ward Smith visited in Fall of 2023 and in June of 2024 and again in October of 2024 and each time ward has been out there just to put things in context he has felt that um the area that was under the loone might not have been a wetland because the Wetland plants that we have planted there have not been thriving so that's the history there um in his October 2024 report he felt like um that particular Wetland should be receded again with uh New England Wetland plant moist mix again which we have done and all of the shrubs and trees are alive although deer are browsing them so we have one more monitoring visit um in Spring of 2025 um for BB W3 which is um on the west side of the property south of the construction area there is a clearly a wetland there and um some material was removed from there it was used as a um trash pile at some point by previous owners a lot of material was removed above the grade of the original Pro um soil and we when that was done we seated that we did not seed the Wetland because the Wetland was um it was open water and there was nothing growing in it previously so we left it as it was and we put in shrubs along the slope right at the Wetland Edge there we've replaced one of those um shrubs and the other five shrubs are doing okay and the the area that was seated it has filled in nicely so um that's the report for that and I don't know if the commission has questions or [Music] concerns I guess I just want to say um Jan and I were there for the site visit with Ward there and we um we saw both areas um and yeah I I felt like Wetland number three you could tell where there's the water there wasn't water pooling when we were there but you can tell that it often does there um and that that certainly will fill in I think with Wetland vegetation pretty quickly um uh Wetland Dairy number two had a few areas that that looked a little sparse but that's the one where it's a little tricky to almost tell uh as Ward was showing us he was doing some he did some soil course and it was it was interesting to try to really figure out where the actual Wetland line is there um but but even in that that area there was some good vegetation growing in so maybe you know by the spring even more will have filled in I don't know if you've seen it before be it looks much better now than it did last spring when we were that's what you guys were saying I hadn't seen it before but that's what you guys were saying so that's great and following the the report that he submitted I think it was back in May um we receed it again at that point again with the moist mix not the wet mix which I think has been more successful and then Maran and I also put in a variety of um plugs of plants we put in sensitive Fern cinnamon fern vervan um zizia I think a couple other things too and those all seem to be well they're Lum yeah and what was the geranium right the geranium maculatum which likes motish soil so I think those will fill in for next year so uh we're scheduled for one more monitoring visit um next spring and we all have our fingers crossed that things will grow and and and Thrive there I don't know if the commission has any more recommendations about what we might do between now and then I don't I do I just I feel like both areas are going to fill in um it just takes time you know so I think I think what you guys have done so far looks great thanks any other questions from anyone else on the commission let me just thank you for all the hard work yeah well it's been a process for sure um I'll move on to mowing in a minute but I did just want to remind the commission that one of the other um remediations that we're doing has to do with invasive plants and I all I want to say is that we went out with about I don't know maryan 10 people or so this past weekend and we pulled a lot of Bittersweet um a bunch of burning bush um lossy Buckthorn Buckthorn um my husband we had a weed wrench uh we pulled out one um Autumn Olive and we ended up with two big tarps full of plants as well as several trash bags so uh it's going to be an on Multi Road right anyway we will we will continue to work on that and we certainly welcome the um the help of the commission next time we do this so I'll move on to mowing um I think most of you know that in 2022 the commission issued an enforcement order um to stop mowing um traditionally the highway department had mowed that field for as long as the town owned it um and uh it has not been mowed since the summer of 20122 um it's now full of small sapling saplings growing throughout the field most specifically along the Woodland Edge you know there's um Aspen coming in and a number of other things moving in so the library building committee would like to has would is proposing to have the field mode this fall before the winter plowing season [Music] um after talking to the highway department recently um they would prefer to do it in by mid November um they're doing a lot of work preparing for the winter plow season now so um we certainly want to make this as um convenient for them as possible and what we're proposing is mowing the entire portion of of the field to the west of the uh construction area and um right now it's very dry the ground is very firm uh we propose doing it when the gry ground is dry and firm we can talk about when the commission feels that might be a reasonable thing to do but um from being out there this weekend I think most of the plants that would be setting seed have set seed um and just the condition of the soil is good for mowing at this point um I note that last year with the springs weather the field would not have been mowable I think until miday uh was um with the high water table and the wet spring it makes it really challenging to do this in the spring which is the other alternative for mowing um we propose mowing at a height of five Ines and uh just a reminder in Nick spring we intend to plant um a variety of wetland plants in the area of bbw1 to enhance the biodiversity in the field it certainly would be easier to plant if um the field were not as tall as it is now and the last last thing is we have been Consulting with the Franklin County Conservation District about best methods for improving the field and a mowing plan um uh we've had a consultant come out and view the site I think they're going to rem recommend that we have a a field restoration ecologist um come out and visit and they would pay for that which would be great and we would develop a plan and then present that to the commission before we did anything this coming spring do you have anything to add Maran I think you covered everything is is all of this part of the the Landscaping plan that that was passed for the library or was that plan only for the land the sort of within the part of the library that's being you know designed right now or did or was this honestly be that's a little bit of a gray area I mean I you know the landscape the Landscaping plan that was put together by the landscape architect was very definitely for what's within the limit of work um uh Maryann and I added to that management of the field and when we presented that to you last summer we did didn't come to resolution about what the long-term plan was um I'm feeling like I would like to reserve a final decision on what we recommend until we have this consultant from the Franklin County I can I have to look at the name again the Franklin Conservation District come out um and give us some more advice because I think there are you know Scott had thoughts about how this should be done um and it relates to invasive plants it relates to um enhancing the meadow it's um a fairly complicated thing and I know there are different lines of thought as to to the best way to go about this um but okay yeah my main question because I can't remember that plan you know word for word but I know we voted on the plan to approve it so I just didn't want to be changing something that we had already you know approved I mean what what we were require to do was submit a plan to you before we began construction and I think what we decided when we presented it to you that this needed to be an ongoing discussion a little bit longer okay so nothing it at my understanding was nothing had been finalized at this point and and I and I would say again I'd like to extend that a little bit out into the future until we feel like we have the best plan possible for the field portion of this um yeah that sounds like a good idea um has his hand up yes Scott yeah thank you I um and thanks Penny and and MaryAnn I think I the the short-term action of the for the proposal here for mowing that does make sense to me it's a super dry out right right now I think it would help with the restoration that you're talking about or next spring to have that mode and so for myself I I I I don't have any concerns with that as a kind of an immediate onetime action and I really appreciate um uh you all thinking about kind of the longterm management plan and how that would be done in those resource areas and and bringing in some other thoughts and having a a conversation around that so um thank you for that and but I don't have any concerns with the proposal here for uh the immediate action for one time o for the help for the restoration Maran so so the the that maintenance plan does call for us planting some large number of plugs in that the meadow um I guess it's bbw1 um 50 times 12 right so um but since we wrote that plan we've been Consulting with the Franklin County Conservation District because this is a project of theirs to um improve the health of pollinator Meadows in this general area area and and they will help pay for the restoration so we may come back to you with an enhanced plan informed by Penny what did you say that the expert that they would pay for is called um is a oh gosh I have to look it up again yeah so you know colist I think right because because it you know they may propose a better solution um and if they're willing to help with the implementation and the cost of a better solution then we would bring it to you and see if you agreed that it was a better solution um you know and we have and in the meantime we've removed a lot of the invasive plants um under the strategies outlined in our invasive plant you know remediation plan um and so we've already it already looks better there's already way less bitter Suite in that field and and you know and dead multi rows and then and then we've really did a lot of the work we did last weekend was in that the Woodland along the edge of the field on the on the West Side um and we're we want to go back because there's there's going to be more to do um and it'll the burning bush as it turns red it'll be easier to find um but so so really it's just you know we so Scott had questions about mowing and wanted to talk more about mowing so before we started mowing we thought it made sense to just come back and say we'd like to give it a moow and then and then if this conservation just comes up with a good plan that we think is reasonable to implement we'll bring that back to you if it doesn't seem reasonable or achievable then we'll go back to planting all of those plugs by hand I respond real quickly I because I um I do really appreciate that Mar add I think my concerns were about how the kind of the longterm management and how that's going to how that's going to help us all succeed with what we want there within hat off to all of you for all the work you've done on the invasives that's awesome and I think um you know we're all kind of coming at this from the same perspective of how do we how do we end up with a long-term management plan that that gives us what we want the native species there the pollinators uh uh where they can Thrive and not have the invasives and so uh that was my my only concern was really what are we doing the long term I I think this you know your proposal here for the short term to help get these things in the ground and then with the the followup I I really applaud that so thank you right um Bob yeah I just wanted to say uh good job um this really looks looks very interesting um I certainly support the um the mowing late season you're out of the the seed seed season you're out of the uh bird nesting season so this is this would be a great time to hit it if you can certainly Meadow is a uh uh habitat that is in decline in Massachusetts in general and and uh shoot spre specifically so it sounds like a a great pathway all right and uh yeah I I agree with what Scott's been saying that that that's a good um you know the short-term plan sounds sounds great and that the short-term plan is to kind of keep working on the long-term plan and that's that's all good too and I love that you've got this this specialist coming to help you that's great um Bob you still have your hand up see something else I apologize I did have a followup inside the um limit of or sorry outside the limit of work there has there been any tree cutting outside of the limit of work uh really to the project yeah yes we did we cut the we cut the uh sprues oh that's right we cut the sprues that were part of uh like 3/4 of them were within the limit of work those were cut and GR the stumps were removed there was a small band of them outside of the limit of work and those were cut and the stumps were left in place what was the um diameter of the stumps um little six inches it was variable the diameter yeah roughly uh were all little ones Penny they were all fairly small M maximum maximum six Ines many less and they're the remnants of a Christmas tree Plantation that had been planted there there were nor Norway spruce and blue spruce okay and you said there were like four or six of those that were outside the li workk no there were more than that were there were probably a dozen dozen okay all right thank you for that information yep all right um so any questions from the public no all right so I think we're we're looking for um I think we should vote just why not um so I'm kind we're looking for a motion I think to um to approve the the short-term plan of of mowing the field this fall while it's dry which it is right now um as a way to just you know prep the field for for this fall and for the work that's going to happen next spring but it is it is a one-time moow at this point while we're developing the long-term management plan motion so motion okay second I'll second it great okay Douglas hi Rowan hi KH hi and Wilson I all right Penny and Maran anything else I think that's it yeah not at the moment thank you um and um do you want to be informed when we're mowing or are you comfortable with us moving ahead um as long as the conditions are dry yeah I think that yep okay well I will talk to the highway department tomorrow and try and get that into their um plan of work for the next short amount of time before we get some rain if we ever do again I know I'm sure we'll get rain again Penny yeah all come overnight okay oh let's hope it doesn't do that we don't want it all at once okay good oh I will just say that I checked in with the contractor today and they're planning on um doing the small repairs to the sil fence and the other erosion control areas tomorrow so and I'll I'll stay on them so okay okay yeah great um I guess once it's fixed you can reach out directly to Jan and she can come take another look just to see okay yeah okay sounds good thank you both thank you it looks great we're all excited yeah me too thank you thank you okay okay all right um so that's it for our guests um next on the agenda is regulations update and I think tonight I just wanted to talk about um sort of where we're at with the regulations um and think about I guess you know what what we want to try to accomplish by our next meeting because I think you know for this meeting we didn't actually have sort of written down sections to write and that kind of thing um so actually I gotta let my cat back in I'll be right back tell Beth that we approved all the regulations while she was letting her cat back in um in in this break could I ask Mike S uh if you wouldn't mind telling me your last name for the purpose of the minutes yes Mike starts s o TZ thank you and uh Joseph's iPad I'm assuming iPad isn't your last name no it's Salvador thank you very much all right um I just had looked through a little bit where we what we had gotten through um we were up to docks yeah wereing yes know I think well I'm sure you have more that you wanted to add there b go ahead really but I I think um it's ch it has been challenging and I really appreciate you asking the question too from legal council on you know kind of where are we right now because we had we had a bylaw we had regulations that we passed we have a new bylaw we're working on the new regulations and what I took home from all that was our existing Rags are in place the new bylaw doesn't really change that if there are places where our new bylaw is contrary to our regulations that that would be of something that we'd want to to prioritize and talk about I I'm trying to think about what that might be I'm not sure that that that's readily apparent to me but maybe some of if some of the other Commissioners had thought about that but it it seems like you know our new bylaw clarified more I think it was pretty much in line with our rigs which I recall when we were passing the rigs for the first time it was we knew well we had an idea that this would be iterative that we would pass those Rags that we would be considering things under the bylaw um I don't see them really in in contrary or U contradictory of one another and I do I I I think we want to spend the time to do it right and and not rush it and I I know it's taking some time but I also know our agendas are super full and it's I'm I'm usually quite by time we get around there talking about the RS I'm I'm pretty tired um so I I'm hopeful though that as we get into this winter season we're going to have less building permits less other things to consider we can dedicate some time to talking about the RS and and to me that seems like a good Pace that to think about getting it wrapped up by the beginning of next You Know Field season like over the course of this winter that we would work on RS yeah so that's kind of what I was thinking but i' I'd love to hear what others you're thinking yeah timing wise I I 100% agree we've we end up having a lot on our agendas um it's we're we're busy but um but I agree you know the winter everything slows down um our meetings are more spread apart so we'll have a little more time in between them to really dig into like a chapter of the RS I do really feel like you know it it'll behoove all of us to really understand the RS well and spend a little time looking at them instead of just rushing into um you know taking taking this and only you know doing a brief review of it I think we should and what you had said about uh and what Town Council had suggested about sort of identifying just the real changes that were made from the bylaw I tried to take a look through sort of this Redline version of the RS that we have for that kind of thing and I it's difficult because we ended up making there's a number of changes that H that have happened to these RS since the 2023 version of them um so it's hard to almost distinguish which ones have to do with the new BW which ones which ones don't to uh just pick out though so I just feel like we the way we were doing it where we were as a group going through the chapters may just be the best way to do it and I I think we can do it you know it's not that huge of a document I feel good about our approach I think we're doing the right thing and I was glad to hear Donna say in fact we were just fine so we'll proceed a pace and and do a good job yeah I agree if we you know it' be nice I'm just thinking about like leading up to town meeting next year and like usually like there are opportunities just to update the community not that I think we have anything for town meeting regarding their rights that way um but I think um perhaps like if we were to try Target having this wrapped up you know by the time we're approaching that in May that would be a good time frame for us to think about yeah I agree 100% And I think we can do it I think it's doable Bob you got any comments um I I I I I totally get it and I kind of feel lucky that um I I came in after the um rather lengthy in taxing discussions related to the the byla I I I think um my conversations with all of you it's I think there's a little fatigue there related to to going through that that process um I I do support um uh moving ahead with it this this winter um certainly it is an accident was taken a town meeting uh where people voted for this and I think um uh following town council's uh uh suggestion of uh removing the things that uh might be inconsistent are are good I think that is a good suggestion um and I would hate to get caught in a um kind of a regulatory bind uh um where we try and use our byw and can't because it's it's not consistent so um I guess I would like to see sooner rather than later um and I but I totally get that they're tedious they're difficult to talk about um but I would like to I would like to see the move ahead yeah well and I I think I yeah I agree I think um in any kind of a situation where there might be some discrepancy between the bylaw and the RS I think the bylaw would always be the answer you know whatever is in the bylaw if there is some if there is a you know very specific inconsistency right now between the two I think the bylaw would be the final word um but yes I agree we need to do it um so back to where we were oh Scott I was just gonna say I think it's gonna take a considered effort like I actually feel like May is a pretty aggressive timeline for us to get through all this in a thoughtful way so I'm I I for myself I don't feel like that's kicking it off like way in the future I think we'd have to work pretty hard to meet a may you know 25 deadline to to try to have these pulled together and drafted yeah yeah I agree but we can do it we can do it um all right well so like we were saying I think we were at Doc Pier and floats which um I don't again I don't think we really should go through any sections tonight but I think that is one we can work on for next week and then the next big chapter is all of the um standards for Inland Wetlands is the next section so you know if we could do docs peers and floats and then also address um or just you know take a look at Banks and maybe freshwater wetlands those two sections so that's three sections for November 14th docs peers and floats and then Banks and freshwater weapons do piers and fls is a big it's it's a it's big because it's all kind of new and it's not something you see in a lot of other regulations but terms of it length it's not that long a section yeah I'm just thinking about the conversation and yeah but we'll see how far we got right so you know it's a homework assignment right you you do what you can and then we'll then you're right if if we we come to the meeting and then the discussion ends up taking too long with with one section then the discussion will just continue to the next to the next meeting I guess yeah um right now we don't we don't have a lot on our uh November 14th agenda really can I I forgot to ask J Jan you pulled together some thoughts on that section didn't you it's been a little while since I had I need to pull that back up but I thought you had shared some edits to or your suggested edits to that section I did and that you sent that to the Commissioners some time ago didn't you when we were doing it it's been a few months that was okay I just want that's that's what I remember to I liked it to go back and dig into it so um I will I will look for that thank you I just wanted to make sure I there was something there to dig for yeah we just started didn't get too far yep yeah I have it then yes good all right does anybody have any more discussion on that everybody's got their homework I think uh you had on the on the agenda the CPA application cycle oh right I skipped over that um yeah and uh Mata was here with us he's the chair of the of the CPA and knows all about it too yeah I just wanted to announce that um CPA announced to all boards and committees that the that the cycle is has started so you can submit applications um the determination of Eligibility is due um December 5th right Mato December 5th um so the only thing I was thinking was you know Scott you and I met with Lee um and talked a little bit about some properties and and Lee was sort of focusing on CPA funding so maybe we want to reach out to him again and see what's going on with with all of that he was he was going to apply for a grant wasn't he um yeah uh but I think the match he was thinking of the match for CPA funding um and I don't I don't recall um Beth who is Lee so Lee forget his last name but he works for Kestrel land trust and he reached out to us about a property here in shsb and um and Scott and I met with him and talked about that property and also just kind of about Kestrel and what they're looking at and things like that so Mato sorry his last name is haaz AJ yes that's Mato I mean that's Lee um so anyway um and then and just wondering what other people's thoughts are on um CPA and the Conservation Commission Bob yeah no I I think the CPA is a tremendous way to to get some awesome things done um uh I certainly am interested in the um the land that kestra was discussing um and I'm wondering uh it always seems like time flies by and if we're only meeting once a week if there is a uh something that we need to put in by December um maybe we would want to have a uh have it as an action item at our at our November meeting yeah I think so too if we can reach back out to Lee and see where he's at with that with the Grant application I'm assuming he actually submitted the grant because it was due pretty soon after when we met um and see if he's heard anything um yeah and but yeah you're right if we're going to do something we'd have to be on our next meeting's agenda are there any other um uh uh CPA projects that the commission has done like uh hikes or lectures or anything like that um well we've used it for U conservation land um maintenance kind of things so the the parking lot that that Scott's working on at West quaven that's CPA project the um improvements up at Top of the Lake Recreation Area I think the picnic table um and those things are or CPA projects so those are other things we can we can think about too I see lots of people have their hands up um Bob do you have anything else that's it thank you okay Scott yeah I just had a few things on CPA uh not for decision or or anything but it would help maybe one just a request and I don't know Matteo if maybe you have this or maybe another Commissioners have it handy but I think we have a balance um for several of our properties Beth mentioned we have a balance I think for West Clin for the parking lot we also have a balance I think for uh for Southbrook still left for I think some of the trail work there and I think it would be helpful just to know what we have as we're thinking about uh you know starting to get bids and developing those projects and do we need additional um uh potentially um other grants that we may need for to to implement some of the the work that we're looking to do so that was a question and I did I also want to mention I think new work for like Top of the Lake I think there is some maybe some additional new work that we may want to think about for Land Management for that to uh finish uh implementing some of our planning for how that would actually work as a um uh potential kayak you know um or canoe access site and so that's maybe a placeholder for a future conversation yeah I know that all sounds stuff to think about but as Bob said that the due date is you know coming around up Matteo um yeah I mean just so a couple of things just in response to to Bob's question um because of the way the CPA statute is written funding can't be used for like educational programming and and and things like that it needs to be used for acquisition or preservation um of of open space and and and related resources um I don't have unfortunately Scott I don't have the numbers in front of me about what remains uh in those different line items I only have the sort of total amounts that are available in each of the CPA categories but I could find that information uh probably and pass that on that would be awesome thank you would be helpful and yeah and and I guess the other thing is the determination of Eligibility phase is uh it's not a requirement to set a to submit a a grant request it's recommended because it basically will save the applicant the time of you know you don't want to prepare a full application and then find out after the fact that it's not legally eligible for funding but if you're pretty sure your project is eligible you could also just skip that phase and go straight to the Grant application um which is uh which isn't due until February 6th I I mean I don't recommend that as chair of the CPC I shouldn't be saying that but um um you know that that is something to bear in mind you know the the determination of Eligibility is just to make things easier for people who aren't sure if their project would legally qualify for the CPA right and even if if we submitted one and then in the end found out the project fell through or something um it's not any kind of a real commitment until you really apply in February I guess so that's that's good too all right well good I'm glad there's some interest in that I think it is such a great funding source for for for conservation um items you know buying land and also maintaining what the land we have um all right does anybody have any other topics they want to talk about Bob thank you thank you Beth um yeah I just wanted to follow up on um uh when we met last the um we do have an open seat and I I I think we had chatted about uh advertising it in some way and and uh see if we can um you know get get the the fifth member yeah we handed out flyers at the uh shsb birthday party to about five different people um but nobody has responded at this point um I actually didn't look in I don't know did anybody look in the roadtown that just came out if um there was a section on usually there's a section where the town also just sort of advertises for all committees that need people they just list the Committees that are missing people I I didn't look to see if Conservation Commission was on that list um but that's another way that just the word gets out that the commission is is missing one you know missing a member um but that's yeah that's as far as it's all gotten at this point I haven't I haven't heard of anybody uh any new people coming forward at this point so thank you yeah um all right any uh public comment Tracy hi thanks for calling on me um so yes I just I wanted to ask that it be put on the agenda for next meeting if possible um the uh the Perpetual conditions left that you received so I know Bob Douglas had sent uh comments to the commission because he couldn't make the last meeting about uh the legality of Perpetual conditions and I feel that the 926 meeting it was sort of left hanging as if this was illegal um to have Perpetual conditions in orders of conditions and I know that at the end of the meeting there was a resident I don't remember who it was who asked if the commission would review um orders of conditions from the time period that the former chair Miriam defont was the chair of the commission because of this illegal um uh putting in of Perpetual conditions which it is not uh and I think that Bob Bob's letter because it was sent to the commission because he couldn't be there my understanding is that that's actually now a um an OP um I guess an open meeting violation it needs to be he didn't mean to he was just telling you guys what he wanted uh to be brought up but um it needs to be talked about in an open meeting because it really has left um a lot uh I think on the table as far as the legality of Perpetual conditions and it really you know kind of sheds a bad light on the Conservation Commission is if you all had approved things in the past that shouldn't have been approved when in fact you were completely within the bounds of the wetlands protection act and the town bylaw uh in doing in doing what you had done um and just to you know name a few I did a quick Google search in um Grafton Buzzard's Bay brain tree Hopedale Boston Auburn that's just a few towns that came up really quickly that use the term Perpetual conditions and also you know in Bob's um comments to you he had a backup uh letter from the Massachusetts Association of conservation commissions saying that it's literally in their documentation and it even cites the page number in which Perpetual conditions are common place so I I hope that you uh consider putting that on the agenda for your next meeting yeah I I mean I suppose we could have it as as a as a topic to to talk about um I feel that it's very it's very Project Specific is it is in the end I um you know in the end what we ended up with with the project that we just looked at is that there was a deed restriction that really was that was going to be Perpetual a lot of the things that we ended up changing in the order or conditions are being still protected with that deed restriction that was associated with that order of conditions um you know many order of conditions out there use the term this condition will be continued will be a will be an ongoing condition in the certificate of compliance that's very common language that you see in orders of conditions some people do throw in the word perpetuity um what I really feel like we learned from the lawyers that we talked to through the the this process of this last application is that in the end conditions legally end after 30 years um they can't really necessarily be in perpetuity um deed restrictions on the other hand can be in perpetuity um I don't mind looking into it more because I know you're you're absolutely right that a lot of lot of conservation commissions use that language the question is what does that language really mean um and if you talk to different people who are involved in the business across the state and different lawyers you're gonna you're gonna hear different answers because that's what I'm hearing and so in a way I feel like it's more important to look at a project of a specific project you know somebody comes forward with a project and we're looking at it specifically and deciding whether we want to include things like ongoing conditions in the um certificate of compliance um so if you're talking about projects that have happened previously that have the word perpetuity in them and if those people are concerned about that after what we went through with this other project I've basically said you can reach out to us and most likely what we'll ask you to do is ask request an amendment to your order of conditions and you will go through that amendment process and we'll have a discussion at one of our meetings about it and see if your particular project and what your particular conditions say you know how we feel about it you know that that's how I that's how I feel about it um I guess I asked the rest of the commission do you feel like we need to have it as an actual item on an agenda to talk about can I just can I just add something to that Beth because I think you misunderstood what I was saying I wasn't referring to the the the past um um uh order that was being discussed at that meeting I'm talking about in general one of your commi Commissioners put information forward to you that was not presented to the public and it needs to be presented to the public it was even flagged as being a violation of public meeting laws um open meeting laws so it it can't just sit now in your emails um I got a copy of it I did a public reference request for it because what was it was left in that meeting as if something illegal had been done the Our Town Council even allowed that language to sit in the meeting um I think based on what I've seen and I've read and what I've seen in this letter that what Our Town Council advised was wrong um and so I think that uh and and she's you know she's not she's not an expert in this area so and the other lawyer was the lawyer for the landowner so what of course that person's going to be um going you know wanting wanting that not to be there um so I think that it's very this is this is this isn't just I don't think I don't think this is a minor deal because what what I see Happening Here is the Conservation Commission bowing to land owners because of the because because lawyers are involved and all also because of potentially to me what occurred um with the uh the former chair um and I've SE the the the slander that's taken place in regards to Miriam has just been appalling and this is just another example that was put in her lap by one of the um the land owners really attacking her directly which that person has every right to do because of free speech but nobody defended her and and several of you on this commission who were on the commission at the time agreed to those all of you did not everybody that's here but those of you who were on the commission at that time um and so you know it's it's just not it's not healthy and I think it needs to be addressed and put out there to the public that this was not something that was illegal and situationally what you're saying Beth is that in some circumstances it would be fine and in others it wouldn't but it's certainly common place across the Commonwealth to have this done well I I I don't necessar I just I don't necessarily agree with and I don't I don't want to get into anything having to do with the with I guess the former chair and people and slander and all that I think we just need to stick with the question of you know what using the word perpetuity in our orders of conditions going forward um and again and and I said if people who have one from the past have issues they need to also get in touch and we can you know go through what I feel like is as an amendment to their order of conditions if they want to but moving forward you know using the word propertuity or not that is that is really the true question um Hey Beth can I interject something sure uh I I attended the Mac annual meeting um last weekend and I had the Good Fortune to sit at a table with some lawyers and I asked them what about this in perpetuity uh in in orders of conditions these were uh a couple from um a firm that do just what we're doing Conservation Commission stuff in in towns in Massachusetts and elsewhere and and they both agreed imp perpetuity was inappropriate and part of the reason for that is that it's un enforced ible for us to make a condition that we can't be in charge of in the future we have to stay within our own authorities and within our own enforcement enforcement ability and and I think that's what I think that's what our Town Council was getting at um you can stack up Bunches of lawyers But ultimately you have to deal with what we have the authority to do and to manage you know now and in into the foreseeable future for ourselves I don't think this is a big item that has to go into a crazy dispute situation I know that Bob said look there are cases where it's used and in fact in another class that I took during that Mac meeting they said you can put it in but you can't enforce it and when we're dealing in particular in shutesbury with with homeowners we're not dealing with big business I mean we have to consider that we're dealing with small you know small projects you know if a home is a small project and uh and manage accordingly we have a great deal of uh uh not sure what the word is yeah we can be reasonable ultimately and and what we put in the conditions can be reasonable we don't have to turn it into the Encyclopedia of possible conditions and lifetime expansive require reement we can we can make it manageable in a reasonable world and and so you know people disagreed at that meeting uh but but they don't disagree with the ultimate thing which is our goal is to take care of the resource and to do the best job we can that's what we're here for and and that's what we ought to be trying to do and if if things we've done in the past aren't quite right we should we should seek to fix them that's that's all yeah so so what is um I thank you Jan um and thank you for going to the MAC Conference I think that's wonderful um what does the commission think about having it be an its own sort of agenda item on our next agenda to to talk about it B yeah I I can say that um in communication I've had with the uh Mass Association of conservation Commissioners president uh doy mcclinchy that um when I asked them that question they got enough responses that they thought that they would make that a um uh part of a uh um a message or something they would put in their magazine U so perhaps let's wait wait till we hear back from from them um and then then and then we would have that informed uh um uh United position from Mac I I also also spoke to uh Alicia Galen from D she also says conditions of per perpetuity are quite common so I mean again and and I think the way that uh we handled it as continuing conditions on the most recent thing I think and in the deed language I think that was a fine way to handle things as well so um I didn't meet and uh Mato nice to meet you uh I'll be I did certainly didn't mean to do an open meeting uh violation and I look forward to your councel on how to do future uh Outreach to Commissioners yeah that was don't worry about that Bob that was I think lots of people make that mistake that open meeing law kind of thing but um Scott did you want to say something yeah I just in response to the idea about having that as an agenda item I I'd be just in the for my own education if maybe what Bob put forward is you know we understand better um what some of the flexibilities might be more generally to to think about that and gain different perspectives on Perpetual conditions I you know that might be a good General conversation to have um I do think if we want to talk about anything specific that really I I would just Echo your thoughts Madam chair of having you know if if folks want to bring something specific to us for some sort of amended order of conditions because they don't think what was done was correct then let's have that conversation more specifically but I I don't think it would be helpful to have kind of a generic conversation around some period of time and rethinking about you know um uh kind of a revamp of those orders of condition when the folks that we issue them to aren't the ones bringing them to us and so um I I guess that's all I I wanted to share yeah I think I ibly I'm glad to hear what Bob's saying that Mac is sort of doing some research on the whole thing and GNA G to maybe put it in a newsletter or something um so I guess I'm thinking putting it on our agenda for two weeks from now I'm not sure if we'd have will have gained any more information um in that time frame maybe it's the kind of thing where we are basically researching it and when we when any of us um have gained some knowledge on it we can bring it to a meeting and share it Tracy that would satisfy me okay good um yeah and I mean I I certainly we'll check in with some people about it a bit more than I have been so um all right um any other comments from the public no all right seeing none um motion to adjourn I'd like to make a motion to adjourn all right second well second okay con hi Rowan hi Douglas hi and Wilson hi bye see everybody in a few weeks thank you everyone good night good night