e h e e e e Hey Beth could I get a uh a sound check okay thumbs up thank you I can hear you great and I just realized they have a cartoon face let me see if I can do something about that I love that I love that Despicable Me There we there you are how's it going good thanks good think you'll be able to stay for yeah i' like I did did talk to um my manager and I think I can get through the kind of the voting items in the beginning of the agenda and um then I just just need to skate out and give a um uh land acquisition recommendation then it can come back okay that sounds good um yeah I mean I think once we get to basically number six on the agenda there's like a little time there especially because you're going to recuse yourself for 70 L thrives true so that's all good [Music] you Jan hello had to [Laughter] unmute I have a really bad case of poison ivy and it's like on my face oh no and I even got a little bit in my eye so I actually went to the doctor today and got prazone so so if I act a little crazy it's because I'm on pregnazon I does pregnazon make you crazy I wasn't aware that they said it may well she said to take it early in the day because sometimes it keeps you up at night okay so I think it kind of wires you a little bit um probably similar to caffeine I don't know but yeah doing field work for my work and just not paying attention you know to the poison ivy plants ah it can be particularly bad this season of the year even the um like the dead Vines from last year will kind of dust up onto you and uh and give you that uh that U you know just contact dermatitis yeah maybe that's I mean I ended up with it mostly on my arms and a little bit on my hands um and then I think I must have touched my face um so anyway the hazards of the job I feel they say that you get more allergic to it the older you get like the more you're exposed to it and have episodes of it and I I think that's kind of true too because I never when I was a kid I never got it I my mom and my brother were very susceptible to it and used to have really bad episodes of it if they got even exposed at all but my dad and I different skin type we never really did but doing field workor number of years in a row I feel like I've sort of just become more sensitive to it or something I don't know another Hazard of getting old you know it is yeah um all right it's uh at 7 and we have a forum so um it's 702 on June 13 2024 and I'm calling this meeting of the shutesbury conservation Comm to order this meeting um is being recorded So hello everyone thanks for coming um I've got just a couple updates and then we can actually move into item number three on the agenda because that doesn't have a Time associated with it so we can jump into that but I just wanted to let everybody know on Tuesday night there was a all boards meeting and Jan and I both went to it um and it was the topic was how to run meetings um all our committee and Boards meetings in shutesbury and they were really it was the select board sponsored the meeting and they were really just trying to gather information on how committees and Boards um want to continue to run meetings either you know 100% Zoom or or hybrid or in person um and the reason that they were trying to gather information is because there has been some state legislators who have legislators who have um brought forward a potential bill or something that that's basically trying to require the whole state to go hybrid for all meetings um and so we gave lots of there are a lot of people that commented at our meeting and um select board and Town Administrator were taking down a lot of notes and are going to sort of create a response to that and the general consensus was um that hybrid although potentially reaches the most people um apparently One requirement of it would be that one person from the border committee would have to be in town hall even if we hired somebody to work for the town to actually run the hybrid portion of it from town hall um somebody from the committee would I guess that's a requirement would have to be there and and that was the real kind of Downer for most people um you know it's the winter time and whatnot it's um sometimes hard for one member and there's you know there's only four of us right now on this committee um even if we had five it would still be kind of annoying to ask somebody to have to go to town hall um under winter anyway so they took those notes down they just basically wrote down what every all everybody was sharing and it was pretty good and I'm sure they'll be updating us on how that all moves forward um um and the other other thing I want to say is that I went to 56 Lake Drive this afternoon just for um a site visit of their project they you guys were not here for that permitting I wasn't even here for the permitting of that project the least that I remember um it's just a a Stairway and it looked great and the erosion control was up and the contractors had just started um yesterday and so some of the work was done but the erosion control looked great and there was really not a lot of um ground disturbance outside of where this little stairwell was going um and that is that's all I had um actually hey Carrie yes I have one question did you ever get back to to Mark Rivers about the request for information on the dam like historical research um I informed him that the you to talk to um Grace because she has the keys to Oldtown Hall which those documents would be in okay I don't have keys for that so that was something that he would have to coordinate with Grace okay great I'm glad you got back to because I I had no info to share but figured we had some files somewhere um okay that's all so item number three on our agenda is Ames Pond pestal Land Trust amended order of conditions request um who is here to talk about that hi Walker hi there how are you good um okay so let's see so there's um we I think Chris sent along sent along some documents for y'all or some pictures I guess um one is or two little spots are on the that Cart Road going in um on the east side of the whole project uh the one that that ends at the new one of the new boardwalks and there's a couple of wet spots there you know over the over the years the organic matter filled in there so then that ends up when the water when it rains it fills up into those spots and then it's pretty um pretty full and uh the idea was to add some add some gravel onto that area just so that the uh the Water wouldn't puddle up on those on that trail there in that cart path um and there's yeah there is one on the the uh I'll say the uphill side you know away from the pond that pretty much looks like a Vernal pool there so this is very one of the one of the puddles well the wet spots is adjacent to that so I think that was the concern was just before we started adding materials in there um you know to I think that was what the uh they wanted to bring it up for you all uh and then the other so there's two spots there two two of these wet muddy areas along that that trail that cart path and then the um the other one is back on the the uh West Side did I say West the last the side closest to the parking area where we put in the uh the the little bit of punch in and the Stone Trail down to the to the pond there and the Overlook um just beyond the Overlook the water builds up right um right before it gets to the pond and it sits right on the on the you know was just a grassy Trail there um you know what it looks like is that as the compaction has happened from people walking there that part of the ground is settled and then all the vegetation and everything that's close to the pond creates a little lip and the water coming down off of the trail and the hillside just will puddle up there and it's and it's the water tables right there obviously so the water doesn't really drain out so there can be a couple inches of water there just at the edge of the um of that Boardwalk so they were looking to see if we could extend that Overlook um I don't know if what they decid like there's 30 would be minimal 50 would be nicer um just more of that punching essentially um to to bre to you know to to Broach that that that quite wet spot um yeah rather than trying to drain the water out or whatever just let it be there and I think the idea was instead of doing the um instead of digging it out the way we did for the punching uh just driving piles in just ding the steel steel piles not even not even the screws just the just the straight pipes like we have on the um uh that one of the other boardwalks but that would be sufficient for supporting that type of of thing that would be the least amount of disturbance um yeah so that was the uh those were the items happy to answer any detailed questions or if there's um if you wanted to show any of the photos or if everyone got some of the photos or wanted me to talk about any of that stuff for a look at the map happy to um yeah I mean I have a couple questions and I guess if the other Commissioners would like to see the map maybe we can do that too um you had said at least in this email um from Chris it said that in a puddle areas you were going to move remove some of the organic material and then put down basically gravel oh yeah scraping out the the organic material that's holds all of the water and the turns it to Mud there so that when the gravel sits on top of it you know the you know eventually obviously organic matter will fill in over top of that be on top of it but at least it won't be a low spot there so it won't collect the water yeah and I guess my just thought and she even mentioned it was um if you're gonna kind of be Excavating a little bit of the organic material before putting the gravel in then having some kind of erosion control between that kind of Excavating area and the veral pool that you mentioned okay would be a good idea great can do that silt fence sufficient yeah or even bottle yeah I think those are I have a bunch of silt fence oh but I do have to get a bunch of straw wadle for something else so one piece of it I just think they're easier to deal with the straw Waddles and and if they're biodegradable and and the the fill for the waddle is uh you know also biodegradable then you can leave them we always come out and we we filet all the straw wle at the end and shake it all out so the plastic they always say that the plastic photo degrades but yeah and now you have microplastics and everywhere so right usually yes F fing filling silt fence or straw W it's one of the one of the favorite pastimes of one of our guys um and then my only other comment and then maybe we can look at the map in case others want it's just that you know it seems to me this is a large enough amount of work because this is saying that the width and length of the new Boardwalk is going to be um approximately 3 feet by 40 feet um and then some of the areas where you're going to put the gravel is also going to be 30 by1 that um you know I think the whole purpose of you coming tonight is to sort of decide whether we'd be requiring another notice of intent or or an amendment or or nothing at all like oh it's it is permanent under the existing order and I guess I feel like an amendment is is needed in this case um so I we'll wait and see what the other Commissioners think but so that would require coming back to our next meeting for your public hearing which is on June 27th um but Bob and Jan would you like to see the maps do you want any more information um I just want to to touch space with you Beth uh if there is a a change perhaps a field change of this nature or or smaller you sometimes uh consider it an insignificant change or or make a um a finding similar to that um yeah no we we can do administrative um approvals is that what you're talking about yeah know maybe just a different different term for it right um yeah and I mean I there was another project that I had thought that would be a good idea for this one I mean my opinion is that it just seems like um kind of a significant addition but that's what we can talk about if you guys don't think adding in the new Boardwalk um requires an an amendment then maybe we go for something smaller yeah I guess uh and speaking only for myself perhaps a map would be handy Walker do you have the maps available uh I think so let's see here oops not the CER logo okay oops so it's a full addition of 40 feet of uh Boardwalk is that did I hear you correctly Beth um yeah um what this says is the new Boardwalk would be 3 feet by 40 feet and then so that's on one side of the pond and then these other areas he was talking about are um areas where they're just going to kind of remove some of the organic matter and put down gravel to let the water be able to flow through and those are two different locations one is approximately 30 by 10 and one is 50 by 10 and Walker in this um in this area where the the boardwalk would go in was there was it just a pathway that was considered before it's yeah it's it's the current pathway there there wasn't anything considered before and then after everything was put in you know in the past couple years it's the the water's I think it's coming down the trail now it seems like um and uh and it's just sits there for a while and I mean it's not always like that but certain times of the year and um uh there we go certain times the year then it it will um P up pretty good all right is my screen being shared right now yeah yes okay so this is the that Cart Road right here you know it's the old Cart Road and the the boardwalk that has the beaver where the the Beavers flooded the cart Road there there's a boardwalk there so there's two spots right here where um that are pretty pretty gooey that hold water uh after the rain and after the snow and then the here's the parking area up on the top left and the field and um little extension proposed extension is right over there so let me move to the next Little Closer so yeah there's the right there on the edge is where the um extension would be and let's see yeah this is the cart the cart Road one of the mud spots there it's the other one and let me see yeah here's a good here's a picture of the off the side so this is you can see the opening in the um the the platform where the path goes off and uh yeah good good chunk of good chunk of water there so this is kind of I think this is like the 30 foot Mark and the 40 foot Mark is out to here but yeah the water's been coming down this tra and and it sits over here on the left side the pond is over here on the right side and is that the boardwalk area Walker this is the Overlook that we built uh last year but I apologize I meant is this the area that you would be filling in yeah exactly so this is where we would put we would put Boardwalk yeah the boardwalk okay yep okay so yeah yep okay well thanks for sharing the maps and the photos Jan what do you think how much Boardwalk was involved uh in the project so far how many feet um well there's been two projects we did that one last year with the punch in and I honestly can't remember how many feet that was um 3 400 feet and then um currently we're finishing up the the uh the boardwalk through the bog and then the forest and that all told that's somewhere in the vicinity of a thousand or so feet so this is a tiny percentage yep that kind of does argue for administrative it just fix a glitch you know that they've observed since yeah no I'm I'm all right with doing so I guess we it's an administrative approval is what it's called um and I'm all right with that and we can just condition it to um to definitely have the erosion control on the side where you're going to be doing a little bit of the Excavating of the organic material and then putting the gravel in um do folks have any other conditions that they can think of [Music] um um I guess a uh like like an inspection report um to see how how it how it's held up uh uh submitted by the applicant might be might be worth having okay I think I'd like to just also come out and check out the erosion control before you actually you know start digging out there what kind of equipment are you going to be using to remove sort of the organic matter at those two um it's a it's a small skid steer little track track skid steer so yeah and and really all it is is that you know there's the gravel that's existing from the cart path and just over the years stuff is built up on top of that so it's just kind of getting that inch or couple inches of stuff out of the way so that the uh gravel doesn't just sit in the mud and then when I say gravel I'm talking about um you know the Sandy Bank Run rounded rock type of stuff not crushed stone so it it is essentially the same type of material that's that you would find on the ground there anyway more or less just more porous and higher up so that the water doesn't sit there um and there I mean there is you know there is possibilities of putting we I could put a um uh put a little infrastructure in you know some crutch Stone and some fabric and then the gravel on top to have water pass through underneath to have that be a little bit more or you know it it just it's the road that acts like a little bit of a dam and that's kind of what makes some of that Vernal pool um but the water does come across the trail at that at the cart path there at that point and you know when the ground's frozen or whatever and um but the idea would be to have it so that there was it was any flow coming across the trail would be low a level so there wouldn't be channelized anywhere and it wouldn't sit there that's the goal is it goingon to impact flow to the Vernal pool no the ver the flow comes from the Vernal pool towards the towards the pond so it wouldn't have you guys um we we sent some photos of sort of a they not really debris it's the the old pieces of Boardwalk that had been left on the sides okay so that's all been removed that's all gone yeah we scrambled and got that out of there that week I got five tons I think five tons that i' that I brought over to Valley Recycling and a bunch of it that we put on the side of the road the night stuff we put on the side of the road said free and people took it so that's good that's a very Sho spray thing to do yeah yeah yeah it usually works yeah um all right well um why don't we go with the administrative approval um with a couple conditions so I guess we need a we need a motion to close the public hearing issue an administrative approval with conditions that erosion control be used G are are you talking about public hearing like right now um well that we're not doing we're not going to do a public hearing oh right need to close the public hearing yeah sorry no closing of a public hearing just um we need a motion to issue an administrative approval with conditions that um erosion control will be in installed at the locations where the gravel is going to be placed um that we'll get some kind of a a report when it's done um just some pictures and see how the final product was and also that you get in touch with me to do a site inspection of the erosion control before you start digging the organic material up I so move we need a second I second great um Douglas hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi all right thank you for coming and we will put together this administrative approval and get it to you um next week at some point great super thank you appreciate it yeah have a good night hope you all get a chance to get out there and take a look it's I've I've gone out but I keep getting I can't I can only go so far because then the done yet you can get all the way across now oh you can oh that's exciting yeah bring a screw gun with you and a bucket of screws too if you want to volunteer we only have six more screws to put in each board and there's about 5,000 boards so okay good I'm not sure I can get out there and do it thank you all right all right time is it all right item number four on our agenda is um theyel pond dam um emergency SE request and [Music] and yeah okay who who is here to speak about that hi um I'm Lois Brown the owner of that Dam and uh I'm seeking uh an emergency um permit to remove the dam um as it's been um cited to be an unsafe condition and uh represents a risk to the downstream infrastructure and the and and even and too much of a flow to the Culvert which is too small and um and with the dam um with Beaver activity and stuff has compromised it further and um so um an expedited removal has been um recommended by the stantech uh engineering design company to reduce public safety risk and um so again cing seeking this uh emergency certification to um to get moving on uh removing the dam um and um there's representatives from Stan here and Susie Bry from and who can help articulate um the need more effectively than I can but uh I've been I've been holding this bag for many years and uh you know and it just you know incrementally has gotten worse so um um really hoping to get some resolve out of this so can I turn it over to stanch or yeah no that that would be good I think we can get some more details but thank you Lois for for coming and um and doing all this work really with the dam and being concerned about it you good evening folks I I can jump in can everyone hear me yep great yeah my name is Gordon Clark so it's myself and uh Michael chansy as well um with the Stant Tech Team and um you know my background I'm civil uh civil engineer work in the Northampton office both both Mike and myself work in the Northampton office uh we do a lot of Dam related work um Dam removals River restoration projects among other things um and um yeah Mike do you want to do a quick introduction then I can I can jump back in and give a little bit of background sure Gordon thank you as Gordon introduced I'm Michael chinsky I'm a licensed professional engineer in Mass sit in Northampton office the engineer of record for 12 completed Dam removals in Massachusetts I think 20 or 21 or 22 completed Dam removals in New England I've worked on about 80 uh dam removal studies in Massachusetts most of those under the division of ecological restoration and their predecessor agency Massachusetts riverways program and I work with Gordon and Susie bresney and Chris H of De and we've had the great Fortune of working with Lo Brown on a very challenging project thanks Mike um so yeah I'll give a a little bit of a background um and then um I'll I can pass it back over to Mike and talk about some of our recommendations at this location um so uh we were working uh with de both Chris and Susie also on the on the call today here as part of a preliminary dam removal uh reconnaissance study um Mike mentioned we've we've done quite a quite a few of these and the typical processes um the Dr would identify uh a dam and uh one that um there may be some interest in in in removing and kind of working through the process of uh identifying um opportunities and constraints associated with that take a look at existing data review the data put together a conceptual design and pack it all together and in report do some do some site visits collect collect some sediment samples hydraulic modeling Etc and uh and then we put in a report and then that kind of moves moves a project along to the next phases which could be um additional data uh uh collection efforts studies um design and permitting um and then uh and then enter the construction phase um in this case this is this is rather a unique case um a deadly dam for for folks that might not know it's it's considered a significant Hazard Dam by the Massachusetts office of dam safety so this is a regulated Dam structure and and that uh that hazard class rating is due to the downstream uh risks ass associated with potential Dam failure um so uh if the dam were to fail there's a potential loss of infrastructure and property and and you know and even potential loss of life so so these are these are serious things when we have these uh bigger storms coming through and what can potentially happen Downstream um not only is the damage significant hazard class but it's also been rated an unsafe condition um by um several uh Consultants independently over the past probably 10 years or so um and this dam is not not in great shape and as Lois mentioned there's also been an ongoing pattern of uh Beaver activity Upstream um that's that's been uh difficult to manage currently there's I believe there's still a some impounded Water behind the dam ODS has actually ordered the dam to be you know maintained in draw down condition this is you know this is a dam that's in bad condition um and and has risk here the other piece of this is um we have this Downstream Culvert that's that's undersized I'm sure folks here know about this Culvert um it's it's it's sized um that's that's the short of it and uh and so we've got a small Culver Downstream of this unsafe condition Dam and really this puts together kind of a risk portfolio at this location where you know as as part of this preliminary preliminary um study that we are doing for de we reviewed the background information got out on site um actually did a couple site visits and uh and our professional recommendation at this point is this is a dam that should be considered um to uh be taken out um as soon as possible immediately and this is where um we uh provided a letter to um to De and in Lois with our recommendation of calling for an expedited dam removal and um and that's the reason why we're here today and and as Lois has requested you emergency certification for getting this unsafe significant Hazard Dam um out and I believe there are some some drawings that were uh were circulated um um and if not I can pull them up and and certainly answer any questions um and I'll I'll turn it over to Mike if there's anything I missed in terms of the the risk portfolio of the site Gordon I think you did a very good job of explaining it and noting that you know the big issue as Gordon pointed out folks is you got to Dam an unsafe condition a significant hazard class Stam and then you've got a culvert Downstream that's undersized individually neither is op them together you know two bads make a really bad and so that's what we're looking at here and that's the the basis for this request to consider an expedited dam removal here through an emergency certification hey I'd like to see the map if you have one yeah I can pull it up let me share my uh let me share my screen now is there water behind the dam currently yeah yes there's water behind the dam currently and there's a sizable Beaver Dam as well um behind the dam so so despite despite trying to draw it down the beavers have uh obstructed the drw down yeah they've been they've been quite persistent at the site there's a beaver deceiver there though that goes through the current Beaver Dam correct so this is our um we we put together just kind of a kind of a quick and dirty plan set for how one would try to do this in um a responsible way um just to basically the kind of the minimum amount of work we want to do here just to remove the uh remove the spillway and kind of connect the downstream to Upstream reaches um this is a just an existing condition conditions sheet um so flow is oriented um in theuh top of the screen here I don't know if you can see my hand um and then so flow is going in this case uh is it's going in a West Direction This is montue Road here's the undersized Culvert here um here's the approximate location the uh Beaver Dam and the approximate location of the the existing Beaver deceiver um I can flip ahead we put together um some some basic um water phasing approaches here so that uh Nation Downstream and and and turbidity is is achieved during the construction process um you know we're we're recommending a uh you know this would be a project for um ideally someone who is familiar with Dam removals um we've reached out to suco Eco engineering these folks are um you know the best when it comes to Dam removals to kind of get their opinion on on this situation and uh take a look at some of these preliminary design drawings um here's a second phase you know it's it's it's a pretty uh it's a pretty simple setup um using turbidity curtains and temporary uh even some temporary Coffer dams to try to uh isolate the active work areas minimize mobilization of sediment debris from going Downstream in this um In this River and kind of the end uh the end product here would be um as I mentioned removal of the spill way and then just grading back of the spillway at you know one half to one slope um on either side um and so the material removal of the Beaver Dam um I think obviously and then um repositioning of material just on these um some of these areas um where there's currently a big excavated uh void space behind the dam wall so um just moving material um over to this this location and then I've got some the final sheet here is just some some cross-sections this one on the upper left kind of showing the existing extent of the dam um there's a I think there's a two to one vertical exaggeration here just for how high is the dam um the dam height is according to ODS is it uh I don't have that number in front of me but I want to say it's 20 feet Mike from the 17t structural height according to the Massachusetts the most recent inspection report and the hydraulic height is supposed to be that is the difference in the water level supposed to be around oh seven or eight feet right now thanks to the beaver it's about 10 11 ft and how wide is the damp so the dam itself is uh um the spillways about 40 feet and the dam extends from there's an embankment section here on facing Downstream so this is the left so here's the natural abutment so it extends for about where my hand is um across the the kind of natural Upland area over here so um call it about um 100 feet so it's largely earn or is it Rock the embankment section is Earth an embankment we have no idea what's what's under underneath this we don't have any um design drawings available so that's that's that's a good question from what we can see of the spillway it's it appears to be a combination of you know rock dry dry laid stone masonry um that's been piled up and maybe um overlaid with concrete at one point as well so stone masonry and and concrete really um so what additional work is is going to be done I know you guys got a grant um and just like what you just said right there not really knowing uh what it's constructed of you know to me means like Geotech work um what what is proposed for here for the site uh for moving forward in in terms of I mean for uh in terms of a Geotech investigation at this site we're we're pretty you know we we know the dam at least the spillway portion of the dam is made from uh stone masonry and concrete um question of how far does it go down is is is certainly a question and you know maybe it goes 10 feet uh below below the natural grades um what we're proposing to do here is um match the downstream Channel grades and then connect it to the Upstream uh portion of the channel we did some sediment probing and tried to find approximately where the uh bottom elevation is in the Upstream impoundment so informed by that establish a uh a channel through here and I'll go back to the plan view because I think that shows um I think kind of this shows a good representation and at least in plan view of the proposed conditions here so what what would remain are you know some some of the whatever Stone masry portions of the dam um at this location um that are you know connecting this Downstream grade to the Upstream grade and then on this on these side slopes we're proposing um just to lay them back add some um some LOM on top of it seed and um and install a Roan control blanket to stabilize it uh in place and this down stream Culvert uh if if if or when it gets replaced I think there's an opportunity here to um you know provide some connectivity through through here but the main the main objective of this is really focused on reducing um the the risks associated with Dam failure here and and providing a a site that um is um no longer regulated as a jurisdictional dam so so what you're kind of saying so these drawings are almost the final plan set that you you are actually sending to contractors that you're you're talking to about doing the work yeah these were developed as part of that preliminary dam removal study and so there they weren't intended to be um you know necessarily issued for construction but this site is um It's relatively simple as far as dam removals go and and I can let Mike speak to that a bit more um if you'd like to but uh this is this is a simple site we you know within a week or two of having a an excavator out there and and removing the spillway in a in a controlled way in a sensible way in a way that's sensitive to the um limiting amount of sediment turbidity Downstream um you know this is this is something that someone could get in and get out rather quickly um so you know really stabilizing the site and making the risk go away here were the primary objectives what's what's the general schedule then um I'm just trying to figure out because you're asking for an emergency CT and usually an emergency CT means you know it's an immediate emergency happening emergency CTS for example only last for 30 days so that's what you're asking for so I'm wondering if if you are actually sort of intending on taking this plan set getting it to somebody in the next you know month or something and actually going and doing the work work um I have a bunch of questions about um you know other other agencies that you've talked to regarding permitting and that kind of thing too but I think just just getting in my head what the schedule for this is and how an emergency startt would even work with this situation um would be helpful Gordon you mind if I yeah you want to jump in M sure yeah yeah Beth thank you for the questions they're insightful it's as if you've done this before for um oh yeah you asked about the dam and you know typical dam removal processes in Massachusetts take anywhere from three to five years and if we were doing more study of this a typical three to five years spend a lot of money we wouldn't get any more information on the on what the dam is sitting on we certainly wouldn't do geotechnical investigations punching through all that rock would be a mess and this dam is full of surprises because of the concrete existing reinforcing steel that's on there so this what we've got so far is really in my opinion and based on experience with a dozen completed Dam removals in the state we looked at this and said you know we could do a preliminary study and it becomes a paper weight but one of the factors that really weighed on us here is that this dam is in unsafe condition and that was determined by the premier geotechnical company in the Northeast GZA envir Geo Environmental we then got engaged with this and noted the problems with the dam unsafe condition significant Hazard classification and the Culver there's also been quite an interest in Massachusetts to do expedited Dam removals and in 2014 I condemned a dam in Harwich Massachusetts on the cape during a preliminary site visit and 21 days later that dam was removed it was removed by the town of har turns out they owned it they didn't know that and it took two days to remove a dam that was about 8T High 80t long and 20 feet wide Stone masy up and downstream side and full of sand because that's what Cape Cod specializes in when we stepped into this project being aware that suco Eco Contracting who's based in Salem we've done six completed Dam removals with them in Massachusetts and last year they built the removal of my childhood Dam on the norok river in Connecticut we selected them not based on cost but qualifications they've been interested they've done a lot of Dam removals they've expressed interest in doing an expedited dam removal they I think it's fair to say they share our frustration of we just make more and more pretty drawings when what we've got here is a dam removal set if it can be implemented by someone of the quality of some Co Eco Contracting they're the only contractor we've reached out to because they have done tens of dam removals in Massachusetts in very sensitive environments so in lie of shopping this around we've tried to engage a team effort of I prefer working with people who are very good at what needs to be done and so to the discussion of an emergency certification thank you for pointing out it's 30 days what we would like to do is recognizing the hazard to the public here that Lo that Lois is bearing that load um that attempts to rehabilitate the dam structurally haven't gone forward and the beaver deceiver is turned into a foundation for another dam is seek your input and willingness we've talked to other agencies in particular the office of dam safety we said this is bad and their response was take a peek at our list of dams that are really bad we can't handle this so our approach is to seek an emergency certification and we expected it would need to be it would potentially be reviewed by others but given the magnitude of this and the public Hazard we believe that this emergency action is warranted and as part of that we also believe this could be an example to improve Public Safety and the resiliency of Natural Resources throughout Massachusetts I will go on the record of saying removal of these dams has a profound positive impact on natural resources and given that's what the Conservation Commission regulates it's a bit scary but currently that empowerment is up and down Gordon and I canoed it in March we couldn't canoe it in January uh we didn't have Skates on the canoe but we've seen lots of examples where these are very positive outcomes and with a teamed with a contractor that is exceptional at what they do we believe this is a safe and effective means to improve resiliency of public infrastructure the Culver the homes down there reduce risks of dam failure and benefit natural resources in this area yeah I mean I 100% I think you know the commission understands the risks and would love to see this done as fast as possible um I guess I still am wondering how the schedule is going to work I mean are we asking for an emergency start as early as next week because you feel like the the work will actually be done in the next 30 days and then my other question is what other kind of Permitting is this going through is the Army Court getting a look at this does this have is this involve meepa I looked at I looked at endangered species and luckily it's not mapped at all for natural heritage so that's a bonus um but that just those other permits you know it's part of our responsibility to make sure that that uh applications are going through all permitting that they need to um this is a really you know complicated project to be considered an emergency CT I don't see why as long as we have a huge list of conditions on an emergency ERT that it isn't possible I guess I'm also wondering if you guys have ever seen this kind of thing be permitted by an emergency CT from a Conservation Commission that's my list of questions um yeah Mike do you want to tackle the uh the latter the last question there in terms if if project has ever gone through an emergency s such as this and then maybe Susie or Chris if they're still on um perhaps they can chime in about some of the um uh Outreach they've been doing from other agencies yeah so the emergency C we're certainly asking for a lot in that we've reviewed the process but we we don't think this dam is going to be around in four years if we go to the usual process so I believe harwitch was ultimately removed as an emergency CT and to give you an idea that was located at the head of Tide so if we dump that Dam into the downstream area it was sensitive resources we also got buyin in that case from the division of Marine Resources we were within a Time time of year restriction for Upstream migration of American eel the Elver so there was quite a bit of coordination um and that project it happened from site visit to breaking ground in 20 days and I'll admit it was a whirlwind I was living in M time took a couple of trains down to have meetings but I'd like to turn over to uh to Susie and Chris Hirsch to address some of the other uh Outreach we've done sure yeah so um we've talked with natural heritage endangered species as you mentioned there aren't any um of concern so they said that this project would not you know require any additional review from them um we talked with the Massachusetts division of uh fish and wildlife and they um said that if the work were to be done this summer as you know you mentioned within the next 30 days of this meeting that there would not be a time of year restriction um we also talked with um Army Corps who articulated that if um the work being done here is just removing the spillway to mitigate the immediate risk and stabilizing the site that that would not be um within Army corp's jurisdiction so there would not be an Army Core review um and therefore without an Army Corps review there would not be a um any section 106 um that we'd have to comply with um or section 107 review um we talked with mass historic as well who also concurred that if there is not a lead Federal agency then there would not be a historic review for section 106 um and who else am I missing we we talked as well with office of dam safety who as Mike mentioned you know said if you get the emergency certification from the Conservation Commission then um you know then that's okay by us and we would have to do some work and coordination with them to ensure that the removal as designed is sufficient to um ensure that the dam afterwards is no longer jurisdictional under the office of dam safety and and register that information with them um in order to take it off of their list um is there is there meepa not meepa probably I don't know does it meet any of the meepa thresholds so if this were a you know a project not carried out under the emergency certific ification this would be considered probably an ecological restoration project and would be exempt from meepa my understanding is through the emergency certification um that the meepa process would not be required um Chris I don't know if you want to add anything there about our conversations with The Regulators if there's anything I've missed yeah I I think everything you said is accurate uh emergency orders are not subject to me and I would also add the D often reviews the emergency orders um to make sure that they're compliant uh with D's regulations around emergency orders so there would be some oversight as well from DP have you spoken at all to DP about it at all no not at this point we haven't okay and then that what you just said about the Army Corp um there requirements seem to be if you limit it to the spillway removal is that fit does that your design follows that direction okay yep exactly so there's no um discharge of dredge or fill material Downstream which is what would trigger Army Core review it's just um dredge of the dam and then discharge in upins um or removal of that material okay and this is a total uh off the track question but does anybody know I I think um the town applied to De for a grant for the Culvert do have do we know about those yet or those not been announced we are in the cone of silence so speak of it well we can hope yeah yeah definitely I I can add that um you know just add a bit on the regulator side and the permitting side that we at De are are committed to helping Lois through this process and working with stantech and suco through this process so we're available to work with regulators and meet with regulators and provide that level of support um you know as needed throughout this process um I also will add that yes the the town has submitted an application um to replace the covert we've also been working on building um a partnership around this project working with the Connecticut River Conservancy um the nature conservancy and American Rivers who are all interested in this River so um you know they're committed and have voice that they're interested in working with the town to improve the covert and also improve fish passage and habitat here so that's not part of what we're requesting here but I guess to instill a little confidence as Mike mentioned you know your mandate is really to protect the natural resources and so there's definitely a team of people that we've kind of built together to help um ensure the the natural resource restoration um Beyond just the public safety mitigation here okay other Commissioners do you have questions yeah Madam chair there I I like would like to say that um when dams like Old Mill dams like this fail um they fail because it's at the worst possible time during massive torret perhaps beavers up beaver dams Upstream have failed and they come through in a huge rush to take out the dam so um I do believe this is a is is a emergency situation and emergency sirt would be appropriate um I can say that I have worked with Sunco myself on two dams they did do an excellent job removing those um and uh I would take the proponents at the word that this is is something that um needs to be um uh taken down uh I am impressed that a lot of the homework and planning has been done and we've had it presented to uh to us um so uh so in a short while I will propose that we we issue an emergency sht right yeah I I support the idea too I mean it's it's obviously an emergency situation um I guess my one other not trying to be a stick in the mud but um to write the emergency S I would like to have conditions and this is my first time seeing these the plan set which would be kind of where I would create the conditions from [Music] um so I'm wondering how we can really approve it tonight um we can certainly we could you know say we're issuing an emergency CT yet I don't have a way to necessarily be approving the conditions that would go through with the emergency CT um is there a way this can get delayed till our next meeting or is that going to throw real wrench in the whole um that you have set up in terms of timing our next meeting is in two weeks January 27 I mean June 27 I don't see any issues with the two we delay um in order to address the the conditions issue I don't know do others see an issue with that I you know to me as soon as soon as possible I mean I'm so ready to be done with this um and uh and and I'm so appreciative of the efforts and support um and education that I've gotten through this process um it has has been daunting and um but uh boy if we can move this along and get it over with I mean I know like fiscal year is ending and I may may lose uh my access to stantech and stuff by by the end of the month if uh um so I mean I know you guys your heart is in it but um um you know there there is dollars and time timeline so if this could be expedited I'd sure appreciate it yeah well the only if we if the commission um is okay with it what we could do is uh issue an emergency CT saying that the rest of the commission is all right with me working with stantech um the next week or so to put the conditions together that would sort of be the condition of the emergency CT would but where the condition of the vote would be that that they're on board with me uh just working with Stant to um to do that can you take the share can you unshare who yes I can yep I think Michael has his hand up Michael quick question and following on the commentary uh we'd be happy to go through our records and assist with providing conditions that we suggest were don't feel like we're being a fox in the hen house here I think as much as you know working constructively with this community and I mean the larger both community of shutesbury but you know we're a resource I think Lois is clearly I'd be fed up if I owned that we're yeah we're looking to do good here so to the extent we can help we'd love to yeah oh we're just trying to follow in a legit process absolutely that's what I'm trying to do yeah um Bob you have your hand up yeah Madam chair I'd like to make a motion if if we're ready for that yep go for it yeah the I would like to make the motion that the uh commission makes the finding that this is an emergency situation and is to issue an emergency sht uh with the um uh adive that uh Beth will be working with the um proponents in order to graph conditions second I second all right Douglas hi Rowan hi Wilson no I might didn't take any public comment on that is there any public comment no I don't see any public comment so wait I have one public comment I don't know what the stream is what's the name of the stream I believe it's called yes it's listed as Dudleyville Brook in the Mass wildlife cold water Fisheries database but otherwise it's unnamed and most other sources I can find oh okay thank you all right well that that sounds like a plan and um I'll reach out to stantech probably uh Monday and we can and if if you want to send me that plan set and Gordon that would be great um and I can take take a look at it and then probably have a conversation with you guys early next week about the conditions do thanks Beth that works okay thank you all really appreciate thank you thanks dealing with a very bad situation that's been around for a very long time in jsy yes I know ready to solve it yes thank you thanks everyone thank you very much coming the vote of the chairman was not audible I is that what you're talking about when I said I there was no audible I from or name from the chairperson excuse me thank you yeah thanks again we're good thank you thank you very much all right it'll be really amazing to get that I I I've lived on monu Road for over 20 years and I've drove over that covert and seeing that Dam and seeing it change a little it's changed quite a bit in the last 20 years but um that'll be a a wonderful project for the town to get done I don't know if I could add anything to your conditions as you develop them but I wouldn't mind sliding my eyes over them yeah sure I I will send the plans around I mean once they send them to me I'll definitely send them to the commission okay and if you guys have conditions that you want to add absolutely and it sounds like like we'll be doing this pretty quickly okay tomorrow Monday so okay Carrie sorry really quick um Bob and Jan are you receiving emails from the comcom like what should be happening is any emails since a comcom should be forwarded to you if that's not happening let me know so I can set that up I thought I did but maybe I I slipped how do we know yeah I I I don't I don't think I'm getting emails okay have you set up your own email Bob as well I have not that's a that's a good thing for me to do though okay yeah once you've done that uh done that email comcom ch.org I'll add you to the list and I'll look into j i Jan I thought I started setting you up maybe I didn't finish it but I'll look into it as well Carrie I'm just wondering uh like I got the Kestrel post is that does that mean I'm getting them did you get it before or after Beth sent it to you oh I think it was Beth maybe okay I'll double check it after yeah double check and we'll go from there all right moving on to number five on the agenda 14 like Drive amended order petitions um request so this this is we're just going through the uh the public hearing has closed and we're just looking at the drafted order conditions so let me bring that up if I can find what I want all right can everybody see my screen yes okay all right so these are the um drafted special conditions for the amended order for 14 late drive too fast oh my god um so first off is that the the date of the order stays the same um as the approved issue date for the original permit for order conditions which was May 27th 20 2022 um I go down okay that's not going so fast all right so this is the language that's been added um it's just summarizing the um work that is proposed for the amendment um applicant has appro change proposed changes to the project since the original order of conditions was issued um during construction an old the old steel pipe carrying the intermittent stream was discovered approximately 8 feet further east than expected um and within the footprint for the construction of the new house the steel pipe carrying the intermittent stream um was found to be in very bad shape the bottom was heavily perforated with corrosion and in a state of failure so to address the situ ation the applicant has proposed to trench and install new 12-in ACP piping to carry the stream um Underground Across the site the pipe's going to sit on six inches of um granular pipe bedding and we'll tie in at one end to the pipe coming under Lake Drive carrying the stream it's really kind of a covert but doesn't doesn't daylight on the uh property owner's side and then at the other end it'll connect to an existing HTP e 12in HTP pipe that discharges into Lake wola also proposed is removal obviously of the existing steel pipe some of which has already been removed during the construction of the house at the site they found they you know they hid it and it was falling apart so some of the pieces have been taken out already um they're proposing additional erosion control to um around the trenching area to protect resource areas they are proposing removal of additional vegetation due to the trench location mitigation for that vegetation removal will include um replacing trees one to one with Native species and planting five native shrubs either um red chokeberry or high high Bush blueberry besides those proposed changes there's no other Pro changes um under that are different than under the the work approved under the original order conditions so if anybody has any comments on that description of the work please raise your hand um besides that the only other oh somebody had their hand up they took it down Bob oh I think you're muted Bob I I was just going to reply in the affirmative that it looks good okay cool so then the only so this is you know obviously this is the amended version so this is the this is the original uh special conditions for the order with the Amendments added to it so what I put here is that all amended portions of the special conditions are in bolded so as you'll see most of the text is just the original order conditions this talks about the resource areas at the site this talks about the the um intermittent stream this talks about the actual proposed work of of demolishing the existing house and putting in a new house but none of that's changing from the original special conditions I did add the the new plan which is the the site plan for the Amendments so that's in bold and then our our standard comments about the commission finding no practical uh equivalent economic alternative and then here are the general conditions are starting I'm going to unbold this because this is not a new addition General conditions all stay the same as the original [Music] order let me know if I'm going too fast are you good um broken up into pre preconstruction phase conditions construction phase conditions uh try to get rid of anything that's bold I see some bold numbers you're torturing you now I keep popping up ah two more all right so so most of it is what was already in the original order conditions um and we all did a site visit out there to see sort of where the constructions at at this point um let get back up to the top all right so does anyone also the applicant have any comments um or changes or questions about the special conditions no I think all the looks good to us we thank the commission for your um for your consideration and uh and care and your work and maybe I turn things over to um uh to Chris Chamberlain just in case he has any comments no I think that all it's fine to me great all right I'll stop sharing if I can see how to do that there it is stop sharing okay Bob you got your hand up yeah I just wanted to say you know I think um the mccallum's had a a tricky situation and uh work through it in a in a very intelligent manner I think they're been well advised by their um Engineers I think it is is a good plan and a good solution and I would make a um a motion to approve the amended Amendment all right um so a motion to issue the order conditions right order conditions amended order conditions okay second I second all right Douglas hi Rowan I and Wilson I all right thank you very much we will get you the amended order of conditions at some point next week have to put them together um and then get them out to you hopefully Tuesday that'll be my goal sounds [Music] good I'll have to step away for just a little bit oh okay thanks Bob um so thank you very much and um do we wait until we get that paper in hand or can work begin if the workers are ready to work um no you need the amended order conditions um at and especially if you're going to be doing I guess the trenching work that's what the amended order is for and it does have to also be recorded at the county okay yeah so what are the next steps then just so I understand what we need to do so on Tuesday um we will be mailing out a hard copy but also Carrie will send you an electronic copy of it and um once you get that you can record it at the Franklin County registry of deeds okay um and once it's recorded then you can move forward actually there's there is a 10-day appeal period but in this case your other order conditions had no appeals and sort of like move forward at your own risk with that appeal period um but I think you're in a pretty good situation because your other order had no appeal so why would someone appeal this one sounds good okay all right and we can help you record that if you need us to um but we do need the original ink signed copy that's all the register will accept okay good to know right we have a um a a form where we voted in 2020 or 2022 or something to to accept electronic signatures and that's that sheet will be attached to what gets sent out okay great then I think we can use uh even a printed version of the electronic in that case because there is no ink yeah oh great Carrie you have something to add to that y my only thing was that um if it's going to be ready on Tuesday I'll be in the office on Tuesday so if you'd like you could also pick up a hard copy instead of me mailing it if that's easier for you oh oh yeah yeah okay yeah that sounds good we could do that but it sounds like we don't need the hard copy from we can print the hard cop we can print a hard copy uh to go to the registry of deeds in yeah in in Greenfield right is that where that is yeah yes okay yeah right all right great thank you so much so much right thank you have a good night have a good night for coming yeah okay yeah sign off yeah all right all right item number six is um churchbury General Wetlands protection bylaw um I think I mentioned that our last meeting got approved by the Attorney General um and sent since we've received it and then there were some some comments um from the attorney general which I think that was really what I wanted to just talk a little bit about we're having we're going to have a special meeting on June 26 to look at the regulations which you know our regulations are approved at this point but we're going to start looking at the regulations that that meeting in respect to the approved bylaw um and just look at the updates that are needed to the regulations based on are now approved by law um but let me just get out Jan did you ever see the um the letter that came back from the attorney general I did yeah so you you saw the comments I mean the comments are all very sort of I mean they're they're all important comments I feel like they may be some somewhat sort of General comments that attorney generals put give with with bylaws and almost every single one of them ends with the town should discuss with Town Council any um any proposed whatever having to do with that comment um and oh and so what I've done with this is I've sent it to Town Council I sent it to Donna MC nickel to just look through and um I haven't heard back from her yet but I I think that's the best thing we can do is have her go through it and um see if she sees anything significant so would she would she come to our meeting where we're going to talk about the regulations and you know do a quick comment on how that fits in or yeah she could um yeah I think she may be not necessarily communicating too much with kcom right now because of um what the project we just finally approved 14 Lake Drive because she's in a butter um so she was sort of she had to sort of told me that she was just gonna be silent for a little bit in deal in working with the concom because she wasn't a butter on that project but now we just issued the um the amended order so that's that's sort of done so now yeah this is pretty specific to the to the RS and rules not to people yeah but I think she had to be kind of Silent for a little bit but um let's see I was just going to go through so you know one of the comments has to do with applications and fees um and they're basically saying um that we should check in with Town Council to ensure that the fees charged under Section Five of the of the new bylaw um constitute a valid fee rather than impermissible tax tax um so I'm sure that's sort of also just a general comment that would go on any uh any bylaw that's proposing fees and that would certainly be something that hopefully Donna would just say is fine um same for the regulations so that that comment had to do with fees and regulations and it's saying that the regulations adopted pursuant to section five ensure that they comply with state law again ask your Town Council um which to me is just like a standard comment um the next one is definitions that has to do with the definition of person because it includes in our definition of person we've got Commonwealth or political subdivision thereof and they are commenting that the town's enforcement of the wetlands BW cannot uh impermissibly interfere with the operation of State entities which I've seen that many times and um say Mass do was to come come to us with some kind of an application um what I've seen before is that they because they're a state entity they're able to do things like not abide by our abutter notification regulation and our bylaw on or our regulations simply because they're a state entity so I think that comment is just reaffirming the fact that state entities um have the power to to not necessarily abide by all the requirements of our bylaw um their next comment had to do with bonding [Music] um and there's sort of a description in here of how you have to go about setting up special accounts if you're going to do bonding um and again it's you need [Music] to consult with your Town Council with any questions regarding this method that they provide here for uh bonding which again I'm sure we'll see what Donna says but um in ammer where I've worked before these steps are exactly how the towns follow doing that kind of bonding um entering onto private property is the next comment Municipal officials do not have the authority to to conduct non-emergency warrantless searches of private property without permission of the owner so again they [Music] say Town should consult their Town Council to ensure that the provisions of section 12 are applied in a manner that is consistent with state law and applicable constitutional requirements that's one that I would want to hear what Donna has to say about that what exactly um how how we would go about doing our job and be consistent with state law and applicable con constitutional requirements um next comment is is where we talked about informing the police chief the town may wish to discuss these issues with Town Council to determine if a future bylaw amendment is needed to clarify this text so there's a spot there where this where the Attorney General was a little leery about our statement so that's also a good one to hear from from Donna and that's it the then the last one we've actually done the last comment had to do with the effective date and again it was just talking about the process of how you um how you have to do um you have to do some public posting of the of the bylaw before you can have an A effective date and Grace went ahead and did this requirement of posting it in five different public locations and then she determined the effective date of our bylaw which I believe is May 30 it's on the byw but that's the effective date of when it officially we could start using it so those are the comments from the attorney general it's kind of interesting to see how they respond to things like that um and I guess we'll we'll see what Donna says if she wants to come to a meeting that'd be great I don't know if that meeting where we're talking about the regulations I guess that makes sense because it's it's really talking about the regulation CH changes that reflect the new bylaw so we'll see if she can come to that and and just talk about her opinion on these um that's about all I wanted to say about that I think let look on my notes yeah I mean we're going to have our meeting on June 26 and then what we need to do is um is set up a public hearing is that actually that is our public hearing I think we should talk about it before then um yeah is that our public hearing Carri is that our public hearing for the regulation changes for next meeting public hearing no I wrote it as like a regular like Workshop meeting that's what I thought so then we will still have to have a public hearing yeah I mean I could make it into a public hearing if you prefer but I felt like because you're still working on the regulations yeah yeah no yeah this should really be just a working meeting that sounds and then we'll have a a public hearing a little bit later all right Jan do you have any you want to add or that sounds good yeah there's a there's a lot to talk about if we really look at the 90s something Pages mean the regulations yeah yeah i' I've found a lot of little things little uh like references to numbers in the Wetland protection act that aren't right and so in addition to some sort of the bigger bigger changes that um we'll be talking about on the 26th there's just a lot of little things that need to be fixed but um all right time is it 8:30 all right so we can move on to number seven which is 66 lever Road the library project um we're reviewing the invasive species management plan the native planning list um and the landscape maintenance plan for the library project and I think Benny also wanted to talk about the monitoring report from Ward Smith um so lots to talk about and've yeah we've been very busy um as I think the commission knows we requested or the commission requested three special conditions um be be uh taken care of before construction can begin and we're anticipating starting construction this summer so we are um have been trying to get all of our ducks in order so the invasive species plan is on the docket for tonight the Landscaping long-term maintenance plan is on the docket for tonight and we've completed the trash plan um to to try and speed things along I'd like to recommend that we talk about start with the invasive species plan um because there's some timeliness to that and we also have a consultant here prepared to describe his plan um and I'd also particularly like to talk about Ward's plan tonight because if we're going to seed or plant we need to do that soon and if the commission is okay with it we could defer the Landscaping uh long-term maintenance plan to a later meeting because I see you still have a couple of public hearings and meetings tonight yeah yeah that's fine I think that's fine with me is that okay with you Chan um so um how would you like to proceed would you like to hear from our consultant on the invasive species plan um yeah that would be great a nice summary of it that would be that'd be great okay so I see Brian colerin is here um he was hired to prepare the plan and we'll can describe it to you tonight okay great and yeah for the record Brian kerin uh ecological Land Management LLC uh out of uh currently Newberry Mass um and yeah so the gist of the plan is that basically the site is in pretty good shape except along the road um generally speaking my view of things out there is that you know the three sides the South the East and the West uh can be handled primarily uh through sort of environmental Outreach and Library public events right there's ways to let that be a volunteer Leed uh effort along those Corners uh on the front uh of the property alongside the road uh where the big uh Wetland Meadow is um that's where we've got another story where it gets really dense and we've got um knotweed which is a tricky plant um and basically the idea to oversimplify uh is to knock down the infestation to a level where it can be incorporated on that side of the property uh into this idea of continual out reach and education and just making sort of an annual or biannual event uh where the volunteers can come out and do something effective and functional um and get something out of it right uh but from my perspective at least uh the current situation with the roses and the Bittersweet you know if I were a volunteer I wouldn't come back you know if you ask me to help with that um so there's that and so uh generally speaking most invasives uh there's a window to really put herbicide to use that um is most effective which is going to be about the time of flowering you know ideally a little bit before um which we should be coming up on that pretty soon um I know that your growing Seasons a little bit behind most other towns in the area and so you know there might be a little bit of sort of um fudging the calendar a little bit and maybe waiting week or two um but that sort of uh would be great for managing and controlling the the challenge there right and this is where your opinion um comes into play is that you know I won't be perfect uh doing the work some native vegetation would be harmed and so there's still the rest of the growing season arguably that uh harm can be mitigated by just natural regrowth and regener generation as opposed to waiting until later in the year you know in the Autumn uh the flowers will have uh turned to seed we'll have seed on the plants and all likelihood but all of the Native vegetation not all but most of it will have sort of faded away right um the invasive species Stay Green on average 3ish weeks longer than the natives and so there's that window to have the high Effectiveness uh without the impact to the rest of the um species and just to backtrack a little bit um you know the reason for talking about herbicide in that space in that context really is sort of the scale and the alternatives are arguably more uh going to cause more disturbance right because you either need a back ho to trench the stuff out which is terrible and that as you will know that's a whole other permitting nightmare uh or arguably if you were to have uh volunteer workdays out there with however many sets of boots right however many um hand tools ripping and pulling things out by the roots you'd have a lot of soil disturbance as well and so there's sort of no way to do this without causing damage it's just choosing the damage you're going to cause and choosing uh what you're going to mitigate from um and in discussions with Penny and Maryanne you know that really sort of targeted uh localized use of herbicide to bring this down to a level where you wouldn't finish the job with herbicide you would just sort of use herbicide to do the heavy lifting and then finish the job in a different context um so just to fill that Gap in um but yeah so that's the quick and dirty um happy to get into more of it not weed I didn't cover that's a whole other topic um that's a longer story and if you want to just sort of do this part now we can cover that and then come to not weed later or if you want me to keep going with not weed I can do that too um well it seemed like with the um with the herbicide treatment it was mostly for the knotweed um I guess it said I was looking at the the table says um the her beside spray in early August would be not weed plus uh Bittersweet and multifloral rose right and when we wrote that up um the idea was just sort of minimize the number of trips um right and in recent conversation with Maryann we had a discussion about sort of optimizing timing to get the most percentage out of the herbicide which would involve coming at a different time you know and so these sort of the int cases and the finer points are up for discussion but then I don't see it on here on the schedule uh anywhere else for treatment of Bittersweet and multifloral rose again like the other herbicide spray in um in late October is just is just the not weed right the the the non knotweed Flora is sort of envisioned as a one time should be enough um when that one time is though has sort of different pros and cons right and sort of the most effective time to do it would be now is you know in the next two three weeks uh the cheapest time when we would have one trip would be to do it in that August trip when we're coming for the N weed anyway um the percentages would be lower uh potentially but we'd still effectively uh be doing the job at a level that would accomplish the goal um the the quote unquote now and the August you'd have some impact uh to the other native Flora uh if you do it sort of nowish the Native Flora would have more room to recover if we do it later on uh maybe less so and then if we were you know uh if this body were very concerned with protecting the native Flora on site then we would maybe bump it further into the fall which um the risk there would be that we might not get um let me rephrase that the berries might be fully formed and contribute to next year's Seedbank as opposed to the summer treatments which should um take care of that problem we wouldn't have a contribution to next year's seed bank okay no I think the approach is great and obviously you're the expert and 100% trust that um my actual question would be if you just you really think doing it once is is is g to is going to get that multiflor Rose it'll you know give or take right this is that sort of the finer point percentage if whether we get 85% or 95% or 90% right that's sort of the finer points of the weather and you know if it's been raining or if there's a drought I mean as you all know the weather's been um less predictable than we want it to be uh uh but if we can hit those kinds of percentages uh if Maryann were to set up a volunteer day I think as a volunteer personally like if I were to look out at a field and see a hundred plants you know and that's what we're going to go out and work on okay great then that that's doable but again speaking to the point where um you know the opinion of the commission you know we want to uh keep in mind here that would still have that impact of lots of boots some lots of soil disturbances potentially within the Wetland and certainly within the buffer that would be different from the impacts of the herbicide and so you know if you feel that you would rather see one kind of impact over the other we can adjust the plan accordingly no I think my question is more when I look at this I I see a lot of volunteer days um and herbicide applications for not weed but all I see is is one herbicide treatment for bitter Street and multiflor row like one day right and that's it and so it's sort of like that's your day like get rid of all of it in one day is that is that doable no no no no that's not even that's not even the goal like 90% would be the goal so 100% we're not presuming and we know that there's a seed bank right and so pulling up seedlings though is a whole ball of wax that is something that um we're hoping right like the idea here is we're involving the community uh as you all well know a volunteer day is a hit and miss thing you know and so um it might not work out plan a might not succeed you know Maryann might call me next June and say all the plan didn't work nobody came we need you to come back out again that Could Happen absolutely uh but it is plan a for the moment are the volunteers going to be pulling out multi Flor Rose and uh and Bittersweet too or are they just doing the invasive the not we uh I see maranne looking to chime in here so Mar so so so the goal with the knotweed is that we'll treat that repeated times um and volunteers won't be pulling that out so and the the goal with the with the Bittersweet and the multiflor rose is that Brian will treat it once at a time that he considers to be the most effective time and the the sort of the best time environmentally and then after that volunteers right now it's it's it's too far gone to have it be a a volunteer Endeavor and you know it's not it wouldn't be possible to do that by hand now it would just be a disaster so so he'll treat it and then it will be part of that sort of annual work day where we go in and we pull out what survived okay so so then sorry I just looking at the table like for June 2026 it's still says volunteer volunteer workday and then the only thing listed is not weed that's why I was confused used but it sounds like when they come back next June they'd be pulling out other stuff too that's dead because it was right right yeah the not weed needs a two to threee uh chemical program um the the the efforts that I've been involved with that involve manual labor for not weed um they're a lot of work uh it just it doesn't you need a very committed uh local person or organization uh if you were to take that on and the timeline for Success um doubles triples um yeah it's a lot and even at that point both with manual labor and with chemical um Labor uh not weed has a a zombie reputation and so it can be a year two three years later and so sort of um Maryann will be I will be wagging my finger at her regularly regularly right to just maintain her uh vigilance right right and and keep an eye on it right and the hope is that that it you know like Brian will do the initial three or four treatments and then it will be at a point where the highway department might be able to do the final treatments we can hand off the responsibility um and then and then it could be gone it's it's I mean it's it's surprising it isn't surprising actually when you consider that it's not wheat but it's you know it was a tiny little patch last year and now it's you know a a bigger patch I mean when you when you compare it to not weed in other places it's still a small patch but I just but you know by next year it would it doesn't double in size you know it it grows exponentially so um so it's and it's and it's in a place that I think would be hard to um to manage any other way you know right on the road with that ston wall beside it um so um so so Brian would start the process and get it to where it's a much smaller amount and then we keep an eye on it um and um and then depending on you know the success either he continues treating it for several years or the highway department gets involved when it's just a little bit so sounds good yeah the the not weat attack here sounds great I was just concerned I guess about the other invasives that they were right and the hope with that is that by treating it once it gets it to a point where it's manageable by hand and and you know so if somebody goes in and pulls 10 plants that's different than I mean now I don't even know how many plants are out there you know and hundreds hundreds right so so we'll get it down to a point where you know I mean penny and I just spent an hour the week before last pulling garlic mustard out of um uh next to town hall next to town hall there is an invasive species uh Garden Nery you know and the garlic mustard was about to go to speed to seed so penny and I just said okay we're just going to pull it and so we did and we bagged it up so we want to get it to a point where somebody can say okay we're just going to pull it and it can be done so sounds sounds good watch out for the poison ivy I have there isn't any there I'm sorry I think poison ivy is the worst thing in the entire world um but I haven't seen any there um I have a patch of Bittersweet here at my house and there's poison ivy mixed in and so I'm I'm smothering the poison ivy um be so that I can then get to the Bittersweet so um so anyway good um so then just on the same topic I know you mentioned there was some burning bush and Barberry and I was wondering what was going to happen with those too that will be a thing where we'll have a volunteer workday and we'll just go around and you know Penny or somebody who knows will say that's a barberry that should come out and then somebody else will you know I think a barberry you're going to want to use a shovel and and kind of dig it out and then you know the same thing with the burning bush there's it's out there but it's not um there's not a ton of it you know and they're quite small right right they're easy to just get get the roots and get them out yes yes yeah they are again we would we would continue to monitor over uh probably forever right right but you know if we if we reduce it you know then it it's not it's not going to spread as fast so um so the goal will be to you know to just sort of do know do a walk around say that's a burning bush that's a barberry oh look there's a bitter Suite um and then we we pull those things out we bag them up and send them off with the trash um and uh so that they don't replant themselves you know and um and then we the the biggest issue is right along the road there where you know and and encroaching into that Wetland Meadow where the Bittersweet and the multifloor rose is that's really um and you know I drive by it every day and I just cringe um so um because it's you know it's not going to be it it it has the potential to just be a beautiful Meadow um if we get that stuff out of there oh but the flowers for the multiflor rose are so lovely they are yes and smell good you can make beautiful holiday displays with the Bittersweet so and then spread it elsewhere um so but you know there's plenty of Bittersweet elsewhere in town for people who want to make um holiday reads and things so yes all right those are my questions Jan and Bob do you guys have any questions concerns I hear a sort of a back backround a yeah I'm I'm all set okay Jam you're good she's good okay um yeah know I thought the the invasive management plan was was really well done and thorough I I guess there's I just have that one comment that maybe we can where in the in the actual table for the June 2026 volunteer workday if we instead of it just saying that it's for not weed if we add in that that that they'll be doing other things because then that that kind of leads up to like every other workday yes down the road will always be more than it'll be all of all the whatever okay and we certainly invite the Conservation Commission to join us on those work days so right and yep my life is like 30% committed right now yes I I can see how hard you're working so um just with all the work you're doing just for the Conservation Commission um you're excused from the work day oh thank you but I know a couple of guys who live with you who might not be excused from the workday yes absolutely yeah I I see what you mean I'm looking at it the way I wrote it was for workdays non are japanica sln weed but if you don't see right that's what you're looking at where oh right the the non you know I I over shortened that portion of things so I can rephrase that that's easy enough yeah just write in the ones that they will be taking out okay be a little clear that's great though all right so um I need a motion to approve the um I'll say lot 32 but I like to say what is it 66 lever 66 lever Road new library project invasive plant management strategy I move to approve the invasive species plant management strategy second I second all right um Douglas hi Rowan and Wilson hi thank you than you so two down one to go right thanks guys I will thank you Brian okay I'll evaporate now okay we'll be in touch and we'll get Brian good all right thanks so much thank you for okay so um just as a quick update um on the plant no the trash and debris removal we worked with the highway department last week to remove some big things and if you want to see them they're on a big tarp in the Upland portion of the site and we are planning another workday next Wednesday to hopefully get all the little stuff including the many many Budweiser can so um that empty empty Budweiser cans okay empty well empty of beer yeah knows what's in there um so can we quickly talk about W's report yeah that would be great okay do you want to share it or I mean I look through I can I'm not very good at that um do you have it handy actually I think I do just a sec and I will note that I believe there's a typo in the opening line of the report I think he has the wrong date we did a site visit in May um and he has October listed um in that first paragraph so but we were out there on the 16th of May nope it make this screen thing the Border go away but it won't go away see ah you okay good here it is can you guys see it not yet oh I see it let me try again how's that that is it great and so as I mentioned the site visit was actually May 16th not October 16 as listed in that first paragraph um and I think the key pieces are twofold um one not much of the Wetland seed mix that we planted last this time last year in the in bbw2 is um growing and when Ward was out both last fall and this spring he did some um investigation and he's not convinced that what was under the pile is a wetland and so um part of what we need to talk with you about is what to do here because he's not convinced that if we continue to seed with Wetland plants that they will survive because he's um the conditions don't seem to be appropriate so we look to the commission for advice as to what to do there um he has some recommendations at the end but um yes please let us know has he done any um just quick kind of digging into the soil to see if there's hydric soils yes he did it in about six different places and um GNA mute myself for just sorry we got things going on in the kitchen here um he did I think he has some pictures um included in further down of what he found in a description um I mean he describes the ve there somewh and vegitation there but um most of um most of the area is fairly well he describes it as sparsely vegetated and all of the trees that and shrubs we planted are alive so I believe these are the next section talks about the hydrology there and what we what we discussed doing was putting in some plugs of plants rather than well I guess we can seed again as well um but putting in some plants that should survive is that is that it sorry I'm just going through and now what you're looking at now is um bbw3 um it is very clearly a wetland yeah um [Music] um um yeah no considering that it seems like the soils majority of them might not be hydric it's um this this plan is seems fine to meet it to give it another shot I guess with this combination would you recommend putting down another pound of um what Wetland mix or would you recommend putting down I guess there's sort of an in between mix that's possible that um hits both wetlands and slightly West less wet soil yeah I would recommend that yeah going with the one that's sort of down the middle and it was also our intent to put in um well I haven't talked with I was going to wait until this conversation happened with the commission but I was going to call New England uh Wetland plants and discuss with them getting a tray of plugs of the plants that are listed here um to try and move things along at a little quicker Pace I think that's a good idea too okay and again there's Bittersweet in the in the tree line surrounding this so we'll be uh manually working on that okay and then that's tricky the the soils if the soils aren't supporting that the right plants then yeah we want some kind of vegetation there you know yep it might be worthwhile when Ward does his monitoring visit next fall for some portion of the commission to come out as well and look at it see what you think sure and then on to well and then he he he States in his paragraph that you have up here right now that he is um concerned about holding it to the performant standards for a BBW um since it does not appear to be Wetland and so you need to consider how what you want to do about that yeah I think um I think like you said that will do the this planting that he's recommending and then the commission should certainly look at it again when he comes out in the fall that when you see coming again in the fall um and if again there's real concern real issues um then we can definitely talk as a commission about um not you know sticking to the 75% native plant species what species I mean yeah native Wetland plant species um at that point I guess seems like a good idea okay oops so this is the Wetland um at bbw3 and um there's clear hydrology there um we planted an upet Upland mix on the slope which has taken some of that has spilled down into the Wetland area and seated in there but um word believes that that will all take care of itself in time we planted I believe six shrubs a mix of blueberry and um spice bush one of the spice bush shrubs has died and we will replace that Ward also recommended um moving all of the shrubs up hill just a tiny bit because well again it varies from Summer to Summer but last summer most of those shrubs sat in the water most of the summer and I think that's why the spice bush died so um I'm asking for the permission to sanction us moving all the shrubs up about I don't know a foot higher onto the bank to hopefully encourage them to survive better yeah I'm all right with that Jan Bob any comments yeah I think uh active ma management is is a good idea and I I think we're we're lucky that we have somebody that's a a keen observer in this situation and then I believe um bbw3 the restoration area Ward also recommended um receding that with wet mix um but as I think back to you know April dski prepared the plan for the restoration and it was her observation when she initially viewed the site that where the water is here that it was devoid of plants and so we did not seed that area um and we did not you know it was a pretty abrupt transition between because there's a slope there between the Upland and the Wetland and again we look to you as to how you want to handle that um I mean my one thought of Alo with uh sort of previously and sort of seeing what happens this year is we've had some really wet wet years like you know looking at this makes me think you know that you know last year we had we had just unbelievable amounts of rain and that um both this area and I know bbw2 it's more a question of the hydric soils themselves but um just giving in another season to sort of see what happens um makes sense to me do you recommend reeding there well yeah so this area was saturated enough that you didn't SE it or you did seed it we did not put I I'm pretty sure we did not seed this with Wetland mix we seeded a uh sort of uh I can't remember the name of the mix I'd have to go look again on the bank and on the up that had been Disturbed when the restor when the um exploration work was done to find that final point for the Wetland and so I'm standing I'm in the picture here on the right there's a wetland and then you can see up where you can see the flags that there are some pink flags that is the line the limit of the Wetland and there's a little bit of vegetation that is moved to the right which is in the Wetland but the bank is well stabilized it was not the intent to seed um the Wetland itself okay well yeah then that that's fine if that was if that was not the intent then he shouldn't we shouldn't be seeing it um and and also if it stays sort of that saturated um in a year where there's not constant rain um it is drier right now I was out there last week and it is uh there's not that much water there now but it is still very damp yeah okay we have that that's sort of not not the intent to be in the actual Wetland then then let's not SE it okay okay so that's the gist of it I think he has a word had a summary paragraph at the end okay great thanks for the update okay so um we can wait and talk with you about native plants and the landscape plan next week or in two weeks when you meet again if that is okay that's fine yeah um let's get you on the agenda um let me stop sharing Carrie what does our agenda look like for the 27th so the only thing I have scheduled right now is um the request for a minor administrative approval for 5759 short drive and then did we set a time for the administrative administrative approval for the Ames Pond or did we do we need to do anything next meeting for that no we approved it tonight okay I didn't know if but yeah so sorry what time did you say the 5759 715 7:15 so we can put 66 l Road on for 7:30 yep does that work for you Maryann and Penny good for me great thumbs up from Maran all right well um thank you for coming and sharing these great plans with us it all looks really good um we know how conscientious you're all GNA be and you know it's your it's your libraries well it's our library and we want it to be nice so um and you know like like we you know the lands around our homes are nice we want to take care of it in the same way so okay the commission will likely be receiving a building permit application within the next month just as a heads up oh okay great yes we so the town um voted to award a contract to a contractor last night last night yeah so uh yeah so now there's just a bunch of administrative stuff that has to happen so um and one of the things will be that the contractor will be getting the building permit so and the con signs off on those what contractor is it General Dynamics um and they're out of Clinton Mass um so they were the lowest bidder and they um are certified and put in a complete bid and have good references so um That's so exciting that's so great it all it's all coming together it is coming together yes just a little bit of effort yes just a little bit yes okay so yes okay all right well great thanks for coming we'll see you in two weeks we'll see you in two weeks great okay bye bye by okay all right um item eight on our agenda is 70 Lake Drive so this is a hearing I need to open this hearing I will open this hearing um this hearing for 70 um Lake Drive this hearing is being held as required by the provisions of chapter 131 section 40 of the general laws of the Commonwealth an act relative to the protection of wetlands as most recently amended and the town of shury General Wetland protection by law all right so who is here to present 70 L Drive oh Mark you're either muted or sort of like coming in better this if I get closer to the screen yep that is better okay and before you start um so Bob is going to have to recuse himself because he's in a butter and Scott didn't make it to the meeting tonight which means in the end we're not going to have um a quorum to vote on uh to close the hearing or anything but I guess my thought on that is that you can you can certainly go ahead and present your um your project and we can have Scott watch the recording and so that hopefully then by two weeks from now we'd be able to actually vote to sort of close the hearing and that kind of thing if if that's all right with you mark that's fine that's fine okay Carrie you have your hand up yeah I believe we also have to wait for the comments back from the National Heritage submission as well oh we don't have that I know we got a D number right yes it is 036 sorry 0306 okay and so we haven't heard from natural heritage yet we have heard from natural heritage we have I had a re I received an email which I believe I forwarded it off and I can resend it but uh they basically say that it's it's fine it's a good it's good to go okay I I have yeah they'll need to be forwarded please sure thank you you're welcome and sorry also one more thing is um I don't I know we discussed it when you handed in the application but uh we'd still need the uh bylaw fee for the application I couldn't give him an exact number because I wasn't sure which category it fell under and if I remember correctly I believe it fell under the category one I don't know if you had a chance to look at that Beth I meant to like um discuss that with you earlier but so um what category did did Mark submit it under or are we still question yeah just just because I wanted to make sure I got that just because this is the first time using the new Master Fee schedule um for The Noy fee for for the bylaw like he the one for the actual submission in itself he did but um when he had submitted his application it was right after um the commission had voted it in the master fee schedule so he was the first one to submit application that would be applicable for it and it's it's category one right because it's a it's a addition that's what I was thinking I just wasn't sure and I didn't want him to I didn't want to um have him until I was yeah I I think falls under category one okay okay what is the Fe do we do we know what the fee is going to be if it's category one I believe it's 50 okay good right and that's just the the local fee and you also have to pay this the state fee that you split between the state and the town he did that I got that part okay cool great um $50 in addition to the $62 yes okay that's good not a problem okay um so yeah so Mark um please go ahead and present and and like I said we just can't do any of the voting tonight but but we will have Scott watch the recording and everything um for next meeting so you don't have to completely repeat everything okay um can I SC share my screen to show you the proposed the current existing plan and propos post plan yes definitely does he have capability Carrie it says he does yes okay so [Music] M did that do it no okay Carrie maybe you could help me out here how to how to how to share my screen I see uh so you I think I got it I think I got it I'll say that no okay so if you go to the the screen of the zoom meeting right now yeah see everyone bottom center it should have a green share screen yeah there you go okay good all right so um so here our goal here is to as we're getting older and we want to make the the house handicapped accessible um uh and uh currently there's no 36 in doors in the house uh that are that that you can really use to get into the place and so our proposal uh is to add a mud room or enclosed part of this deck here and to add a mud room with a 36 inch door uh and to raise the deck level up to the existing level of the house so once you're in the mud room um you're in the house effectively so right now this is the existing house here this is a deck uh with stairways going down to a Goan stone patio and actually the Goan stone patio is is all along underneath here uh and uh and so our and so that's what we currently have this is just deck here and and house uh so I'm going to go to the next screen the proposed changes so our proposal is to take is to to expand this deck here and this deck here uh so that it goes out to a 10 foot are so we'll have like a 10x10 kind of mud room we're going to remove the the stairs since we really don't need them so basically we're just going to you know expand that these this deck area and this deck area um we're going to use the uh to support the structure we're going to use the existing pilings concrete pilings that are underneath the stairs but that's not enough to do the whole the whole structure so we're proposing to add uh four helical piles which will be drilled into the ground uh so one around here three in this on this side and one on this side um and uh um and and then you rebuild the deck at the ex at the height of the existing floorway of the house um and then um uh that's about it in a nutshell I me the um you so the deck mud room and deck will be will be this will be turned into a porch area uh and this will be the mudroom area with A continuous roof line along here um so we're not going to do any real digging uh we're going to use existing structure concrete for support plus the helical piles um uh the any water that comes off the roof here will go on to the existing um uh gion stone patio as is currently does uh which is in effectively effectively a dry well because it's it's a foot of uh gravel with Goan Stone on top of it uh the the water that comes off this side goes into an existing dryw uh and so it's pretty much all taken care of there um I think that's kind of it in a nutshell questions um only thing I can think of is how how are you gonna sort of get equipment down there to to do that kind of stuff it's gonna well it depends upon the the the size of the equipment they they're bringing in there are walk behind uh helical pile drill Drillers which will fit through the fence uh which there's a fence up in this area uh and then there's or there's a if it's a bigger vehicle uh like a like a bobcat kind of thing um they can drive down here and drive literally around and drive up to here so so as long as it's a wheeled vehicle not a tracked vehicle it shouldn't do any doing doing disturbances and um and even if it was track it's you it's it's real all established grass and uh that's you know very mature and easy to get through okay and I see you have a soap fence propos we'll s s fence although you know I can I don't think there's going to be really much disturbance of the soil that that's going to do any that's necessary but it's easy to put in and doesn't hurt doesn't do any damage to put one in great um did you see did you see Mark Stinson's comments um no what did he say oh one is just has file number 28674 which must have been previous work that you did at your house from 2002 received a certificate of compliance I'm sure that that has but like we could check that would be registered with the in Frankin County and so it's easy enough to check on I can look what what kind of work was that in 2002 2002 wasn't uh um I got no idea I can look it up I just oh I know what that was I I know we put we put a septic system in in 2002 so I bet that's what that was okay yeah I'll look that I will look that up or have Carrie look it up um the other comment he has is just um he's saying that your chapter 91 license has expired oh okay I wasn't what I wasn't aware that that it expired he he says it was issued in 2005 and it's only valid for 10 years um gender would likely be required so then he just says applicant needs to contact the waterways program so may maybe when you come back to our next meeting you could just let us know like if you could reach out to them and just find out sort of the status of that and then you could let us know at the next meeting yeah absolutely that's pry straightforward to renew that I think yeah my second go around so it's not a big deal right um yeah so that's it for Mark's comments um does the commission have any other comments no it's it seems pretty straightforward to me um so um yeah I guess we'll have to still wait till the next meeting and have Scott brought up to speed so that he can be our third vote um okay sounds good that could be time to check into 91 license yes that would be great all right so Carrie when can we get this on um June 27th meeting uh the last thing we just uh added on was the library at 7:30 so anytime after that all right I like I like back putting them right in order just in case something gets canceled or something so how about 7:45 Mark sure okay great that sounds good well we look forward to uh to seeing you next in next two weeks thanks for presenting you're welcome thank you I'm G and I'll stop sharing now yes that' be great great it all worked all right thank you it's getting late 9:24 we got one more thing item nine is 36 um South Bal Drive last star Camp um this is a request for determination who would like to present this project and sorry for that's okay can everybody hear me all right y yep hi Dave hi David Cameron Fleetwood Environmental Solutions LLC 84 Russell Street in Hadley and I'm here on behalf of last star Camp LLC represented by Linda and Chad grico and they recently purchased um a single family residents at 36 cell Floral Drive which is right next to Lake wyola and my understanding is they were given a six-month period from the shutesbury Board of Health to figure out what to do with the septic system in terms of um reconfiguring or um using that structure as a residence again it hasn't been lived in for some time so what we're seeking from the commission is is a negative determination that confirms the exemption for minor activities in the buffer zone for exploratory borings related to uh the type of um exploratory work related to figuring out how septic systems are upgraded uh and it appears that the commission's um bylaw regulations recognize the same exemption at section 3.2.3 of the bolow regulations um the grip Coast have been in contact with a number of potential firms who do civil and sanitary uh engineering work to figure this out for them they don't have a specific plan in place but we're simply just coming in front of the commission so the commission can understand what's needed in order to comply with this deadline with the Board of Health um and recognize that some kind of exploratory work will be need to be will need to be done on the property and a portion of the property is within the 100 foot buffer zone of a bvw that is to the south of the property okay do you have do you have a fight plan by any chance I will try to share my screen um it's a pretty simple site plan can I get it here bear with me I have the site plan open why can't I pull it up there it is okay can everybody see that okay so here's Lake wola to the West um and it's actually 36 cell flal Drive is where the existing structure is but the parcel just to the north that's labeled South Laural Drive is also owned by uh last star Camp LLC and the buffer zone is rep one of her buffer zone represented by this tannish line that kind of diagonally goes through the property um so anywhere within that lot or the adjacent lot is where exploratory work might need to be done again we don't know exactly what's going to be required um there are trees on the property and if you want I could share actually I should back up has the commission done a safe visit no we haven't um that was sort of my mistake and not scheduling one of those it's been a very busy week so we haven't been there um it's you know if if there are no questions on this plan I can or I can actually toggle back and forth between this plan and some photographs that we took to give you a sense of what the the property looks like it's a tiny tiny piece of property or collectively the properties are tiny um again the the house has been vacant for some time and um it looks like it was based on GIS it was built in 1976 it was a camp that was built in 1976 and there was a clearing around the camp when it was constructed um but it looks like it's been vacant for I don't know roughly 10 or 15 years and so a lot of the saplings and they're mostly Eastern Hemlock saplings that have grown around the perimeter of the the structure are now about you know probably an average of six or seven inches in diameter maybe 20 feet tall um and it's so it's pretty thick and certainly some trees will need to be clear to get in and um you know do whatever needs to be done whether it's with with a you know a bobcat size piece of equipment or something else um let me see if I can pull up photos bear with me a minute here we go so those three yellow dots were the boring locations no again the we don't know precisely where the boring locations are going to go what we're what we're seeking is just confirmation from the commission that doing borings in the buffer zone is a minor exempt activity so it could happen anywhere anywhere in the property where there's buffers on um and it it's possible that no borings will be done at all we we just don't know we've got this my client has this deadline with the Board of Health so we're just trying to get keep these planning activities going and they recognize that if or when they want to reconstruct or put an addition on or do any upgrades to this structure that they'll have to come back in front of the commission with an RDA or an r710 but this is just we're just in the planning phases right now okay so this is a view of the structure from um self Laurel Drive first photo this is the BBW that's uh down gradient of the property to the South and that discharges to Lake wola these are the hemlock trees directly behind the house and these are the hamlock trees directly north of the house just to give you a sense of the size and the density of the vegetation what's the size of the lot Chad do you know off hands I mean I could I could pull it up it's in the RDA 841 Dave 841 where the house is is 60 ft wide by 100t Deep so 60 feet North and South 100 ft east and west and the additional lot A50 that is beside it is 40 feet wide by 80 feet deep so A50 increases the lot size by almost 50 well 40 almost 40 yep that that is consistent with what I actually put in the narrative the RDA so collectively the two properties are two10 of aner the larger one is 0.13 and the one to the north is 0.07 all right I at this point considering what the application is about I'm I'm satisfied I don't know Jan and Bob are you guys have any more questions yeah I okay I concur it uh it is exempt under the bylaw and the Wess protection act and uh um uh I was curious about one thing talks about different mitigation members uh or activity but it doesn't talk about receding the Disturbed area um yeah I think for mitigation measures we proposed um surrounding any test pits with straw Waddles or just covering any exposed soils with tarps depending how large the area is the areas might actually be quite small um I didn't propose looming and seaing um only because I presume that uh subsequent to that there'd be something done in terms of upgrades to the property in the house um certainly you know there there would be a commitment there to to make sure there's no migration of sediments down gradient into the Wetland um but if I don't think there's a problem with loaming and seeding if if there's going to be a a span of time in between you know phase a and phase B I don't think that's a problem problem I I think we could do that yeah it could just be it could just be seated so I guess that that that would I would add that as condition yep that can be that's fine all right so I think we're looking for a motion to issue a determination oh Tom see oh public comment is there any public comment Tom hi good evening thanks so much um yeah I just wanted to make sure it was a public hearing if I had a question or two is that okay yes yeah thanks um yeah it's a really special little property I live right next to it so I congratulate them on being able to do something with it Beyond just let it sit on lived in um I just had a procedural question and it's probably because I've been on the planning board for a little while that it's on my radar um and I just don't know the answer at all so uh how does it work with an RDA for two different properties because 36 self laal Drive is technically a different property from A51 and um would it be procedurally better or necessary or not or would it be uh appropriate for a condition or not that the properties be combined at any point um we often and the planning board see just routine anr combined property requests where it's essentially enlarging a lot um much as in this case and it's an approval not required step but it assures that it's one property that's on the radar that's on the uh you know on the plate going forward and because the septic system might end up straddling the two properties for example and that probably wouldn't be the case at that point it probably would have to be in advance one property so I just didn't know if anybody had the answer about how to address that aspect and um I did want to point out that that map is not accurate and I think it's labeled as such I don't know how critical it is but I wondered if there would ever be a more accurate detailing of where the buffer zone is relative to the house and the property lines if you look at the map shared with us the house appears to be on the property line but it really isn't and that map Source I think I know what it is even as a disclaimer that this is not actually a a map to be refer to as a surveying map or anything so those are my two questions please about whether combining the Lots is something to be talked about and um at some point whether there'll be a more accurate map please are so we can ask the applicant are there any plans to combine the Lots I can I'll I'll answer the second question first because that's easier um so the answer is yes there will be professional um surveyed AutoCAD plans prepared for any subsequent work on the property and the applicants are already in in touch with a couple of different firms to um and they'll end up retaining one of them to do that um I I'm actually I noticed the same thing that it looks like the house is right on top of the property line and that that can't possibly be correct so I agree um I didn't sweat it too much because all we're seeking is just confirmation that the activities wherever they are on those properties are exempt so I don't think it really matters um as far as the Lots being combined I don't have an answer to that question for any subsequent project but I know that I recently did a peer review for a for a big project in Rivier where it was for an anrad abbreviated notice of resource area delineation and that the study area for that anr was actually six different parel and it was all submitted under a single and rad and D didn't have any negative comments about that so procedurally I don't think it's a problem at this stage to present those two Parcels as the collective study area for for the negative determination we're seeking but you know you raise a you rais a good question for you know future the future project yeah I guess well for a present question too it would be is this an RDA pay for two properties and is it um is A50 is there justification for going into A50 for the exploratory boring since it was never part of the property um that is the cause for the exploratory boring um the answer to that question is we don't know right it all depends on what the sanitary engineer says in terms of what the what the options are for subsurface um sewage upgrades and given the real estate that the house is on is so tiny I just assumed that it's a it's quite possible that they may need to look at that adjacent parcel too and since it's all under Collective ownership it seemed to make sense to include that in the study area for the RDA yeah I totally agree I just think it's um more of a risk without having it owned together as one property um um combined as such answer your question we do have an engineering firm that we're looking to retain to explore all of those things we're still in the early stages so we can't speak to it right now but it is something that we're considering as we go down the line there there are implications One Direction or another so yeah that's not going to be determined tonight right I just don't know if it's an engineering question as much as a definitional question of like what is the property and um it's a a kind of a zoning or planning question in the way I'm looking at it a little more than the obvious engineering question of it may well be a necessary piece of land to use uh but if it had been two different owners you would need a separate RDA for it because it's a separate property um I don't know how having the same owner negates that aspect because the property would have been bought and they were bought at very different points in time um property a41 which is 36 floral um was bought as itself you know as defined and measured so I just am asking whether it's important to consider that fact and whether combining them first might be more legitimate or submitting to rdas might be legitimate or whether there's precedent but it sounds as so I heard that there's some assumption and not knowing happening and maybe a legal consultant would know this question more than an engineering one um I don't think um if it were two separate owners that that would actually change anything other than the fact that um if one applicant was proposing to do something on two properties written permission would need to be granted by the other property owner um that's how I've seen it done in practice in the past with no problems yeah it just feels as though it's remaining a question and if we could have it answered I think it would serve everyone's best interests I mean I really want that to go forward please understand that I just I understand how not following procedures can have a haunting effect sometimes in unseen ways even decades later so I just wanted to voice the concern and maybe there will be an ackn Jud that there's being a step made forward without really knowing if that's the best way to do it to put it one way Linda you have your hand up yeah um I think there's a precedent around the lake for having um septic systems on different property different Lots owned by the same person Tom your septic system is across the road but it's the same property it was combined officially like the parcels weren't always the same property but there's a combination process of conc currently taxed differently and treated differently by the registry of deeds and whatnot different notices are sent out independently for the two properties until they are um it's just called combining until they are combined with an anr through the planning department it's kind of like the opposite of a subdivision it's kind of acknowledgement that this is a a changing of lot parameters but it doesn't count as a subdivision so therefore it is a no approval required situation but it puts it on record that this happened and it allows the property then to function as one property under one owner as opposed to two properties under one owner which is a different scenario is all I'm saying it's quite routine and yes it is around the lake a lot but it's only in the case of lots that have been combined into one property under one owner okay we'll investigate yeah Beth I'm not sure that this issue is an issue for the concom um they're just looking for the ability to make these borings and uh they own the property right I I think what right I think what Tom is is saying is that when you issue um a permit you really are supposed to issue a permit for one parcel one designated parcel one address one parcel um but but because of what the question is my thought really would be and we'll see what people think about this is that if we were to tonight issue a determination that yes this type of work is exempt under the state W the wellness protection act and our town um regulations and we just issued that for one of the two lots that then there is just a general assumption that then it would also apply obviously to the other lot in terms of moving forward with with the project because that's almost what you're asking with this RDA is sort of like if we're going to do this type of work is it is it exempt and and the truth is that it is exempt but we could issue it tonight under one of the two Parcels that that's actually that may be the easiest way to do it if there's an open question about this um I mean study area has been defined as both Lots but uh the RDA that was submitted is really um effectively a very fancy notification letter to the commission saying hey we're gonna do this work it's exempt but we'd like you to confirm that in writing please right so we'll confirm it under one lot and if it's confirmed under one lot then you can make the Assumption really that that it's okay for which is fine so so why don't we pick a lot which lot would you like this determination to go with I think the one that the house is on and which one is that that's a that would be be with me a41 yeah map a parcel 41 okay all right I hope that that helps Tom for you to yes Tom spell out with the Assumption means about doing it going forward will there be another RDA for A50 if necessary or how will the notification about work on A50 if they're not combined to me my thought is that that they were really looking to find out if this typ of work is exempt by asking for the RDA and and they have found out that it is which also qualifies for any other lot really in the entire town if somebody wants to just do exploratory borings that are eventually the way the the way it says it in the regulations is that exploratory work including borings that are going to support future applications meaning a future noi for a septic system or a house those have always been exempt under the Wetland protection act and now our new regulations also exempt that activity as long as it's in the buffer zone it has to be in the buffer zone um so that was really their question and we're going to answer it um for this one parcel but now they know that really that that really qualifies for anybody in town would it be worth writing it down that um should the work need to continue on to A50 um there's an assumption me that it would qualify without having to buy for an RDA because I'm not quite understanding why it wouldn't just must be solved by a separate RDA as opposed to like I understand it but I just it's like an Unwritten agreement and can it just be written out well I mean I guess the point is that they didn't even really have to be filing the RDA but they did file one to find out what the answer is and so technically now they know that answer so for the other parcel they know that that that work is already exempt they don't need to file for it does that make sense yeah it's new to me as well um I thank you for thinking about it and let's hope that is a perfectly legitimate and good solution helps everyone for thank you yeah certainly if they came back with any proposed work that was a notice of intent or something they would need to combine those two Parcels together into one lot or submit two separate notices of intent were rdas for actual work but this RDA was just to ask a question really and so it can be answered for one parcel and then then you know the answer for the other parcel Lois Brown Put it appreciate the um support and the education I've gotten just now so yeah thanks I think this is a great way to okay great so we need a a motion to um approve prove the determination determination of applicability um stating that these exploratory borings are exempt under both the state regulations uh and bylaw and the town getting tired by law and regulations so moved I guess we had the condition to loom and seed that was one condition that will add to it seeding is fine for me okay all right um second I second okay Douglas hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi all right thank you very much we'll we'll get that determination out to you at some point um next week thank you very much okay thank you have a good night you too you too all right it's late late think my my one thing I want to say is site visits I I'll be sending out emails about doing doing a couple site visits and we'll coordinate some stuff for maybe next week um and just let me know what your schedules are I know Bob your schedule is really busy so I'll just send out some potential times and dates and we'll figure something out Okie do yep I I am I am doing some traveling but uh I'd be delighted to come along on this visit okay great I think that is everything doesn't do either of you have anything else you want to share or are you ready to go I'd like the big emotion to adjourn second I second okay Douglas hi Rowan hi and Wilson hi good job tonight it was long thanks everybody got a lot thank you good night good night