##VIDEO ID:VF7Fd9DdZVM## I'm and I will make you host anybody else want to be well you can make anybody co-host yeah okay um I'm assuming I we had a just I think when you uh left our last meeting um we had a couple minutes left but I think are the that ended the meeting for everybody but I think now that you've made me co-host I don't we'll have that that problem today in case you need to leave early uh no if I leave now I mean I can zero you out and mute everything just in case but I should be able to leave I think as long as I'm I'm I'm the co-host or a host of the meeting you're the host so you can check it you should be able to like I can't share anymore yeah you're the only one who can until okay yep all right so we should be good you should be good um Gabe let me ask uh just on our agenda for tonight I know um in terms of items that you want us to cover with you I know we have the tree continuation of that tree Warden fincom transfer request that we talked about last time is there anything else that you need to make sure we talk about um that you may not have seen on the agenda no I was not planning on coming tonight okay um but I can come on the next one I do need a transfer for the tree Warden he did give me the amounts and the street name okay then I'll need a transfer into office supplies okay so I'll tell you what if if you could um hang on for just a little bit um we're we're doing the budget review for um Gail or town accountant and can can can you hang on for just that item and then we'll go straight into um that transfer request sure okay sure not a problem all right all right well first of all I'm gonna call the fincom to order at 6:32 um I don't think we're waiting on anybody let's see one two three no we've got everybody um so first item um is the budget review for um Gail Weiss Our Town accountant thanks for joining us Gail I'm gonna just share the budget document probably the most straightforward budget we're gonna look at I think this year that's just basically my H software maintenance yeah um did I share the right screen can everybody see this okay yes that's correct great okay all right so um so really only two lines um and the Vadar software charge that's built into our agreement right that we we signed on to I believe for another two to three years okay got it and then at that point we'll have to negotiate a new contract with them they tell us they pretty much tell us what it's going to be um okay so that is essentially a flat funded uh line and same with your certification uh request um okay uh so pretty straightforward any questions from the fincom okay I don't see any um I had a question unrelated to the budget itself but while while we have you on um I think you you have some awareness of this public request for um this open checkbook uh service um that I think a couple of town residents have recommended or suggested would be um something that would be worth you know the investing in on the for the town um we had a brief kind of conversation at our last thcom meeting about it and I think before we could even sort of really dive into it I think we we sort of established that it two non-starters would be one if this this system didn't play well with Vadar and second that um potentially a non-starter would be if it if it required a lot of a significant amount of staff time additional kind of Staff time to maintain have you had a chance to sort of think about that that that proposal a little bit I mean do you have any I mean I've always had the uh in Orange and Hadley and I think another town that I helped out we just basically put down that summary sheet um I can see some issues I can do detail I know in one they did a monthly detail but you got to be careful like I would never put out under the veterans benefits any detail on that and then on the health insurance and insurance sometimes we reimburse um reimburse citizens or not citizens employees for out- of pocket cost and again that could be in violation of HIPPA if those get published oh interesting so it can be a timec consuming thing making sure those issues are handled if you want a detailed Ledger out there I see okay no that I'm I'm I'm really glad you mentioned that because to be honest that that is not uh anything that had occurred to me when we were talking about it but you're you're suggesting that there's sort of potential kind of privacy issues related to specific payments that made um and that could be a problem to have that be um disclosed and then the also the issue of fairness I just get entries I know they send me a detailed Ledger for the schools but I don't write the checks the checks are written at the school so when you see the school you'll just see one entry shoot sper Elementary School expense and that's all you see on the detail so if you want to look at the schools I do not have that information right okay got it so there's there's so it so it actually for for certain departments like the school um having access to that ledger information may not be as informative as people would have assumed because it we you get a bunch of things rolled up into kind of a a generic sort of transaction is that that that's the point it's very generic got it the school okay uh I see a couple hands up so let me go to Kathy just a quick question um regarding the certification line item yeah please I'm just wondering what the ink cartridges explanation means oh that's just part of the 5515 it's part of that five if you add up the three things it equals $ 5,515 it just I should have just probably put certification down lower oh oh it's part of that first expense line it's all part of that first line next year I'll remember I'll move the certification line down further okay no worries thank you great um Gabe so I think Gail covered it but part of my concern was it putting up the school I mean they are part of our budget and that I don't know how you would incorporate that using Union 28 don't they run their um general ledger off of Union 28 and then you just get the numbers Gail right um they give provide me a ledger yep but because I don't print the check there's no need for me to put in the invoices on my side and that would be very time consuming if I would had to do that even you know just to even if I ran it as a no check warrant um separately um because that that would that's where I see the big negativity in the whole thing and I don't think you should do the town and not do the school no yeah so basically if I understand the point basically any expenditure related to the elementary school um is going to be would in this theoretically if we if if we adopted this open checkbook system would be um described only in some sort of generic way as like shutesbury Elementary School payment you know and it'll be a large number with a bunch of things rolled up into that right is that is that the point that is correct okay got it all right okay that's helpful um any other questions for Gail before we let her go okay [Music] um all right Gail well thanks for for joining us and uh sharing your budget info with us um this will be an easy one to to roll into I'm just asking for extra money for because the office supplies the in cartridges keep going up yeah yeah yeah got it okay thank you all right you take care okay uh let's see all right let's move on to this uh considering this transfer request and then Ellen I see you joined us thank you we might be able to get to you a little early so um but if you can just hang on if you could just hang on for a little bit we have one thing we've got to do before we let Gage go for tonight uh so let me pull up this Wen request okay all right I just sent this uh around earlier this afternoon uh Bob question oh you're muted Bob just have a comment that might help uh the committee understand this issue a little yeah please u i i uh talked to Dave about this um and I pointed out to him that you know before uh Steve came along and became the combined tree Warden and the U Highway superintendent uh he used to do quite a bit of tree work out of his budget didn't come out of the of the tree Warden line it came out of some other part of his budget I know I don't know what that was I asked Dave if he knew he does not know he has no clue how that was managed by Tim uh I thought I suggested we both agreed that we' get together and look at his budget and see if we could figure that out but uh this is something that was he has not dipped into any part of his budget but the tree Warden line to handle these expenses this year so it occurred to me that that's something we have to sort out a little better before we uh transferred this money but um he we we agreed we meet later Bob what um can you share any information about sort of how you um came to the conclusion that there that um T in in sort of Prior Years Tim had utilized some other budget line is that is that something that came up in I I'm trying to remember or if that came up in our fincom budget reviews or if that was a discussion you had with him well it was very clear to me and also with my discussions with Tim he had been borrowing stony's um chipper and he had been he has like several chainsaws over there and they had those saws before uh Steve became the tree Ward and those lines became combined and I did talk to him about you know how how the tree workor was going and what he what tree work he did and how he managed it he did hire a company from Greenfield to to come in and assist him when he needed to U needed a a boom truck or something like that so again this this is absolutely I'm absolutely certain about that he did manage quite a bit of tree work out of his budget so I I don't think there was a line for it though I don't know where it came from and Dave doesn't know either um I don't think that Dave were these was this during the period where like we had very little spending if any on the the tree Warden line at all I mean my me I have a memory that for for some extended period of time there was like no yeah that's that's absolutely true there was a we had a tree w a couple years ago who was not spending any money out of the line right I don't know how many years he was in office but uh there was a you know there was some difficulty uh some people were urging him to spend money and he was saying that he was getting the power C companies and the phone company to do the trimming and so he he's longer the tree Ward then Steve became the tree Warden yeah and it became uh sort of reasonable to suggest that those that roow that get folded into the highway department but I'm absolutely sure that you know I've seen Tim working on the side of the road before that tree warden came along and then after and he I've been in the shop there there's like about five chainsaws and all kinds of of tree work Tools in there there for quite a while so this is something I don't really have all the answers to but it's definitely popped up uh I'm I'm certain that there was a a lot of tree work being done out of the budget so Dave and I are G to try to figure this out that's what we agreed to do today all right let me go to Jim and then suy yes I'm wondering if you could um Bob perhaps or someone else can find out where this um where this crane and and this bit of 1600 where exactly is that going to be spent now what road um the reason the reason why I ask is is the um um what is the name of the company that's out there now but the company uh I just can't remember just know it just slipped my mind but they are doing they're doing a phenomenal amount of work along all of the roads what no what some somebody's voice is randomly coming into this oh okay all right yeah if you're not speaking um if you could mute yourself that would be helpful well at any rate uh it's it's Nelson tree and Nelson tree is just taking down trees are marked all over the place and I'm just wondering whether um uh the work that that uh he wants to do locally um you know intersects with any of this and I'd also like to yeah go ahead Jim oh no somebody it sounded like somebody put it in there um I'd also like to say that our former tree Warden who didn't spend any money was expert at getting U the reason he had he felt that he would save the Town Money by not spending it but he also he also was extremely good at at being able to get the uh National Grid to do loads of work for the town at you know at no charge to us so I'd like to at least put in a somewhat of a good word for him as well as to why the money previously was not spent uh in the budget got it Susie you're muted Susie on it there I got it um I think that we could proceed with um going Fe um funding this line and then if Tim was able to squeeze it out of other budgets those budgets won't be as squeezed and it'll come back as unspent um I also know that Dave has spent a lot of effort talking to people in town I'm sure he's talked to Nelson I'm sure I talked to National Grid and I believe that when he's making this request it's because the options that he has um don't include those um and I was oh and the company he was looking at was blah blah blah blah blah um oh he doesn't list the company so we don't know maybe he is talking to um oh it's Jim's Tree Service um so you know I'm sure that he is looking at his options and making um choices for for the town that are in our favor um okay Bob and then Gabe yeah I just want to sort of confirm that the roads that he mentions in his letter what he also mentioned to me is kville and Prescot there's no power lines I don't think on either of those two roads so there there's not going to be any power company uh helping us with this and these are dead asteres which are suffering from a a plague of that's infected ash trees all over the Northeast and they have to come down they're they're they're not it's not safe to have them there so I'm not questioning whether we need this work done I just want to sort out for the committee about this issue that I I raised so um I think that um Davis said he's interested in doing that so that's that's what I want to add to the conversation but yeah this is not going to be done by a power company because those two roads are not served by by uh polls you know got it uh Gabe oh I think you're muted yep that darn mute um my understanding from Dave when we first had this conversation is that a lot of tree work that was that is now necessary especially with the Ash and the ash boore is d dangerous he can't just take his chainsaw of the highway department and deal with it he needs professional people to take it down it's dangerous to the road the nailson trucks that you're seeing all over the place those are National Grid cutting all their trees along their power lines and they've had two P two hearings two tree removal hearings with the town to give us their plan so they are fully occupied doing exactly what we need them to do on their dime um what Dave does not have the capacity in his expense line to do this work if he were to start doing it out of your expense line then he's not going to have a whole lot of money for other things that's part of the problem this is unusual amount of tree cutting um and there are trees that should have come down so that's kind of how he explained it to me I do understand that if you think he has enough in his expense line to do that but you really ought to to be seeing what tree removal is going to cost you as a cost center not mixed in with expense budgets he also has had an unusual amount of mechanical repairs this year on his trucks so I came to you a while back about a truck that was having issues and we had to give him some money to repair it he's had some more issues since then um so that's just my two cents worth um I do think he needs to finish this piece of the work he's not coming back for the rest of the year um you may want to have him come back and talk to you about a tree plan for the future I don't know if anybody's sat down with him and talked about a tree removal plan um so that you can figure it into his budget but if you don't put that in the tree Warden budget I think you're not helping yourself understand what needs to be done all right um I uh I think the appropriate thing to do here is for us to discuss and and potentially authorize this transfer request but I would like to encourage you Bob to continue whatever discussions you've started with Dave and I think as Susie suggested I mean you know best case scenario um you know perhaps this you know this this These funds that we make be allocating tonight end up being unspent and yeah that that would be fine uh but I I would be a little concerned about delaying the process um by not moving forward with this request um that's my uh that's my instinct on kind of strategy here um okay I think given that maybe I'll go ahead and make a motion to authorize uh transfer $5,000 from fincom reserves to the highway department for the purpose of uh tree removal second okay any other discussion about this yeah I just want to make a brief comment please go ahead Bob I just think I think it's unfortunate that we move so quickly in these things without doing do deliberation because you know there are some questions that I thought I think are reasonable to to get answers for and I I personally fully support getting this work done and I fully support the taxpayers being uh justifiably build for it because it's it's in their interest but I just want to go deliberately through the process of because of the points I raised so you know I don't see there's a big emergency for us to do this tonight but that's the way the committee wants to vote it I'll probably abstain from it because I just think there's no rush there's not panic here [Music] okay any other comments before we vote George yes I'm looking at the expenses online for the highway department and right now I don't see $5,000 available in too many lines um the Wagers line of course not the expense line budget is 3,000 there's 2,300 left materials there's 11,3 um which is 50% spent um in of course machinery maintenance is about 50% spent tools and equipment almost all of it I mean I maybe the money's there but it looks like he's been spending these accounts pretty much on schedule without this $5,000 so I tend to think from what I see that the $5,000 is not going to be covered in his lines I I mean you folks can look at this too right now but I'm not I tend to agree with what G has said that there is a need now and we should address it all right Susie um so one of the things that's weird is in the highway budget we sent him we did not have the tree Warden part that that's not mentioned in the form that we sent so then when you go back and look at the Ledger um there's the tree Warden expenses on page three um and I I don't I'm not looking at a current one and so when George is looking at the current one George is at the tree Warden expenses that were funded well this is the 1219 one December 19th so it's probably not current anymore and how much is spent out of it there uh so let me find that line because I wasn't looking at that line that line according to has $799 left of a budget said 477 and that's what he said so that yeah that's what he said I don't I honestly I don't have that line on the screen here I have to scroll down so I just feel like he has been cutting trees it is expensive to remove them there's not a lot of money left as you pointed out in the highway budget in any other pocket and um I think that with the motion that's in front of us I'm ready to vote yeah Susie just for your information um the report I'm looking at the tree Warden expense was spent at 52% 5151 but he told us $799 so he's probably subtracting from that the bills he has in hand and this is the season to do that work so that's the other thing it's winter yeah um okay uh all right so seeing no other comments why don't we proceed with a vote on the motion Groves ey Chang my mind I m i cashew I mo i Salvador I and Stein I okay motion passes unanimously um Gabe do you uh I think you'll be able to prepare the I'll do the reserve fund transfer form yeah and I'll put it in your box and then uh once you sign it they'll transfer it they won't transfer the money until you guys sign it okay all right uh do you want to do you have a sense of when that might be there just so we know I can hopefully if tomorrow's not too crazy because it's been crazy lately um I can get it in your box tomorrow they're not hard to do okay great so if everybody could kind of make their way over sometime later this week it would be helpful if there was a posting an email telling us it's there sure some are gonna forget yeah no problem I can okay great uh all right and Gabe that was it you needed us to I had one more Gail asked me today to ask you folks we have $400 left in office supplies and so recently we had to order copy paper for the copy machine everybody uses that that was a $500 order and toner was a $500 order so I know that you're low you have $400 left in office supplies so I asked Gail what she thought we needed till the end of the year I asked her if we could overexp the account she's not comfortable with that um so she asked me to go ahead and come to you looking for $1,000 to transfer into office supplies to hopefully carry us through the end of the year okay uh any questions about that from the committee all right so I can make a motion you ready sure go ahead I make a motion we transfer ,000 from the fincom reserve to the office supply line I'll second okay any additional discussion all right George side Roes I Heming y ey gashu I oer I Salvador I Stein I okay the motion passes unanimously okay great so we've got two transfer requests um George quick question I know I know you and I used to kind of keep our sort of log of uh where we are are on uh have you been doing that recently um yes okay because I do because I take the minutes I have a record of them in the minutes so I just take them from there I actually just didit them both now and as of right now um we're at 50819 unspent if I got everything so far we had the the town meeting items at town meeting we increased it from 55 to 75,000 right yeah that sounds right and then we taken out 9,000 for the highway for the truck needing repair 9,000 for the fire department really 9100 and then the tree Warden today 500 and office supplies 1,000 so 50,8 19 is what I believe is the right number okay terrific thank you you're welcome okay uh let's see all right so next up we have Ellen McCay our terrific collector and we're going to review the budget for the town collector sorry Ellen I had I thought I was gonna be able to get you in early but it didn't work out that way all right uh let me share your [Music] budget I must congratulate you you're really good at saying I or nay in Al in alphabetical order we have a lot of practice yeah we did training we do a lot of ping yeah all right let's see let's make this a little oh that is not the current one uh oh okay that's okay I can it's an issue an item at the bottom do you want to email me um uh I thought I did I thought I sent you the the right one let me let let me look at my email uh would have been before I left last a week and a half ago I mean I can easily explain it and tell you what it is is it the one that says second copy yes okay got it all right all right uh apologize folks I may have sent around the the wrong version so I will was the correct version in our um Google Docs well that's what I'm thinking it probably I don't think it was I think I might have sent you the wrong version uh so I will replace the one in the Google drive with this one is this this look right alen oh wait I I don't see anything okay hang on one second okay uh no that's the same one wait a minut wait a minute this is the one that's yeah um no but I'm looking at no it still doesn't have it okay let me go through it the easy way is for me to just go through it with you okay and I'll just changes here okay okay well the banking fees they were 4,500 this past year you never know what the BL banking fees are going to be it's a function of how many people use the lockbox so uh and Okay computer maintenance is a flat fee for the next couple of years the agreement was when I went into Vadar that it was going to be a flat fee for I think it was five years Paper Stock well that's obvious I need you know the papers to print the tax bills off the supplies and my toner is about $500 a uh per box so uh but the boxes are the large size toner so hopefully two of them will work postage postage keeps going up every time I turn around every six months Ellen can I just pause your for one second so I just want to make sure that I'm I'm I'm sharing the right amounts for these lines then so so okay catch us up here we've got 46 4600 for banking right the 5390 right and Paper Stock of 2,000 yeah and then off supplies of 1500 so that's increasing $500 yeah yeah because I will probably need a $1,000 just for the toner okay got it so 500 ends up being other stuff okay got it okay postage up to 5,000 because of the constant increases of of postage I still have to do all the mailings right travel and meetings doesn't change Association membership went up because they decided the mass collector treasurers decided to increase our dues of our our size towns from $50 80 okay they hadn't changed a a reg a dues thing in a kazillion years MH okay filings for tax takings so that's what that's a $105 per that get filed at the registry okay newspaper legal notices now once we're in that we're into an interesting New World okay many of you probably saw back in the summer the banner headline was well the town's now going to have to give back to people if they auction a property the difference between the expenses and the amount that's people bid or the winning bid that's fine but there were was a lot more changes in that legislation to my whole process of doing the taking and this is where the next few come in because what happens is a lot that happens is a function of whether you're doing it with residential property as defined by the assesses which are the hundreds and the classified which is 600 700 and 800 or not everything else and uh because of this they have some really interesting things that we're now going to have to do for one thing normally in about eight days after the ex the real estate Ado I send out a demand and the demand just says demand and it's you know much like the regular Bill well now not only will there be a new demand form but there's also a two-page document that has to go with it which says uh first of all on the top bold letters and this was designed the do Department of Revenue designed it per what the law said the new law it said this notice affects important legal rights and should be translated immediately and that statement is in well see English one two 3 four five six seven it's in seven other languages too but thank goodness they didn't put the we initially thought they going put the whole document in seven languages and I couldn't quite see you know spending a fortune to mail these things out and then it goes on and on and on explains the whole process of what if you don't pay your demand etc etc but it now is required to go that's shouldn't be a problem mean a little bit more postage in some cases but that's not the big problem the problem stems from after you've sent out your demands and you've waited a decent amount of time and you're ready to do what's called the tax taking now that used to be with something you probably saw in the newspaper well now they've changed it if you have if you are taking a residential property and taking means putting a lean on The Collector gives notice by a publishing it only in the town's website thank goodness no more huge bills for PO for the newspaper mailing the notice of the to the assessed owner's last and usual place of residence or business and this is the one post the notice upon the residential property so I have in here the newspaper ads because we although we don't have many non-residential property we may have some and I never know who's going to go out on tax lean and who isn't the next one uh then down below that on the bottom line it says posting on property to go on tax title now this means I have to hire someone to go and put these documents on on the person's property NE do to say I can't I will not do it uh I don't think the police have any authority to do it so what they're looking at as a continuation this is from the Department of Revenue they suggest we talk to town counsel and then arrange for a constable or a deputy sheriff somebody who who does who serves process which can be all kinds of things aenas or what have you to go and do this so this is is something entirely new and I don't know what it's going to cost I put I put $1,000 in because I'm hoping that it doesn't go over but it might I mean you know it's random because we haven't done this yet it took effect November one I had taking my takings for last year the end of October to avoid this problem but this coming year we're deep into it so that's the line that we're missing here posting on property to go on tax title I put it that on it and if worse comes to worse I'll have to come back to you for more because it's you know until we do it once or twice we have no idea of how many are going on it anyway so that's going to be interesting and what has to be posted is not only the document about the tax title but another document too so it's not only the notice but it's another document it's going to be interesting shall we say if they not residential property then we still have to advertise it in the paper so it's like could they make it one thing for everybody but no that it's in the way the legislature decided to do you're you're gonna still need a newspaper legal notice line yeah I am I don't know how much right I'm hoping that the people without that don't have residential property will be good and pay their taxes and then I don't have a problem but I can always use it then for the uh posting on the property right and so basically what happens is that went up got it and I don't think my title's right my total's here right it isn't right oh it's 24080 okay with the increases so and basically so so the only thing that needs to be updated on this document is well one I think we should have a discussion about this newspaper notice line and whether we can assume that that can be safely reduced um because I'll tell you I took two Parcels onto the newspaper La in the fall the cost was $600 the legal ad for one one addition and that was only two okay um so then the the change is that you you're essentially adding a new line here yeah okay for um posting posting on property to go on tax title right uh posting on property for tax title okay and that was I I chose a thousand and I'm hoping that everybody's good and pays their bills and I don't have to do any right okay all right um so if you can look at my screen here that I shared does this look like it corons yes all right exactly yeah I just wanted to ask Ellen for my clarification for me if we if you said I believe you said that there's no longer an obligation for us to publish these notices in the newspaper on residential property on nonresidential property you still have to post it in the paper okay maybe I'm confused but I thought we only had residential property in this town no you can have commercial you can have uh not many but we do have some commercial um so yeah there are some properties that are not uh we we say we're rural residential but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the classification the assesses use I see okay and then the other thing that confused me Ellen was that you have your uh certificate uh stien on the right hand I didn't put I didn't put that on okay so that's not put in the budget it comes as usually as a line item I believe it loses is a line item under under salary for all of us that have the CL the classification certifications I believe thank you very much okay uh Jim yes Ellen how many uh um times have you had to go through this whole tax title routine um is every year but I mean you know how many times have have you um you know um gone to gone through the court in the whole nine yards is this does this happen often okay first of all when you say going to court you mean going to land court that is the treasurer's responsibility yeah I I yeah I I understand I'm just you know I'm just curious as to is you know how how how um how well have shy taxpayers been paying their taxes and is there always a small minority that to you have to sort of do all this work y exactly and I never know how many because the initial notices that go out or have gone out in the past I could have 10 and then eight of them pay or enter into payment plans so then I might only have two that actually have to go to the file in the registry but you never know and we have a whole lot of new people in town so that could even complicate things more so it's about two people a year or something you know well it's been two for the last couple of years but I never know okay all right George I would love it to be none but it doesn't happen two items on this uh one on this posting of property um this is consistent with we heard from Ryan in our last meeting we have about sure yeah Ryan's budget was affected by this this law change and he drastic about 10 in tax title yeah yeah but drastically because anything that takes after it goes to him in other words after it's been filed at the registry of deeds and then it goes to him and then he had then he has to wait at least a year after I have done the taking for him to file it with the with the uh land Court the land Court can take another year so now you're at two to two and a half to three years out before uh anything can happen but yeah it's going to really affect him because you've got to if you decide to auction it you have to uh and and these decisions have to I sure he told you have to be made immediately after the land Court gives it to you you can't even wait so which means you have to know up front before you even finish in land court is the town going to keep it or is the town not going to keep it and and auction it let's say they auction it you had have to hire an appraisal appraiser you have to have it done by a uh you have to list it with a real estate agent I mean it's gotten so complicated it's horrific if you don't if you decide to keep it then you still have to have an appraiser and you have to have an appropriation in hand to be able to pay the owner for the difference between the amount on the tax title or the amount of total tax is owed and all the fees and the amount they get so you're going to have to know what the town me wants to do immediately mediately or earlier it's a it's messy my other question my other question was do we need to budget the assistant Town collector line or can we send that back to zero no he still works for me he's so busy with everything else so if I go away he usually works like four hours for me during the week so you're thinking we still need $2500 I don't I don't think we need that much necessarily but you'd have because as I say with him being so busy he doesn't have the time to be able to come in and cover for me I wish he was able to cover for me more I'm still unbearing myself for what I found when I got back of the stuff he couldn't do because he was only there Tuesday and Wednesday morning so and one of the reasons we have that person is your backup but also in anticipation of someday combining the treasurer with the town collector is that correct I don't know what the intent is we took it apart it was always aart actually and even though when I was both it was a part so so I don't know it will all depend on what the town wants to do do they do they want to combine it or do they want to leave it apart and just pay maybe somebody to do both jobs but you I don't know go ahead well and the question is do we need to fund that line you say yes to what to some extent you could probably cut it to a thousand just to be on the safe side okay but that's just my opinion based on what's Happening currently but he at $1,000 he can give you the support you need and still be able to be your backup oh yeah I'm sure as long as yeah I would say yes once again it's a guess Jim uh Jim yes uh Ellen have you um gotten much feedback on the way that the new tax bills look and the detail on them versus the the um the older bills that we used to get up until a few years ago I was just wondering whether good question part of the problem is people are not reading the new tax bills because it clearly says what portion is to be sent in with the bills and inevitably they send the wrong portion in with the bills so but that has nothing to do with it that's just I'm trying desperately to educate people and I don't succeed too well but uh no they don't it's got all the same information it's just not on the back of the bill anymore it's on the front of the bill in between the two the two pieces with the documents so no I haven't got much feedback on it they said the feedbacks basically been oh this is new oh the old Bill seem to have more detail having to do out build chap chapter 61 things like this that no it still it still has 61 on on the on the new vills because it has the classification listings okay and uh no there was never the but the information is still the same yes okay thank you that's that's that's statutory what's on the bills is the state telling us what's on the bills oh um I just noticed I just look back and the certification is a line item in each um Department's budget so it's not into the wages it's a separate line item so somehow it should have been on this one as a line item okay I didn't know that right I'm gonna add it now but once again that got put on by I don't know somebody not me I don't remember doing that I was wondering if if it was Personnel that put it on all right does that look right to everybody yeah yep where'd it go oh there yeah so I just added it as a line just at the bottom [Music] okay we don't need that there okay um sui so we also said that perhaps the assistant Town collector yeah should be a line for for $1,000 instead of 2500 and it should be a line it should go over here well it does have a line well it's in the column of explanations I don't see it well that no that's true that's not there because she doesn't include salaries no right but there is a line in the budget for it was my point yeah I I'll add it uh all right so it was 25 nothing that I nothing that I can I ask for it's somebody else does it I dids this year I don't remember because it's too long ago oh come on Susie yeah my recollection is we were we were concerned about backing up Ellen and um Ryan was willing to do it and it seemed like a good opportunity to more than just backing up Ellen but also learning the job so that in the future he might be a candidate and we might combined positions as many towns do not necessarily committing ourselves to that but certainly putting ourselves in position to do that I just want to say that's that's my recollection George that when we added this line there was some discussion that uh Ellen uh despite the fact that she seems like she's lasting forever might decide to to exit and that Ryan might be it might be reasonable for us to combine it so that Ryan would be a good backup for her now yeah uh and then in the future we'd look at that as a possibility that's my recollection too yeah just yeah my just my two cents I remember the the Personnel Board met with with Ryan and and at that time in his life it looked like that was a possible career choice for him but it sounds like he's a much busier individual than he was a number of years ago but that's where came from I'm sure he is um not a significant amount but I'm still sort of wondering if we ought to reduce this newspaper notice line by some some increment knowing that um the bulk of our use for this line is is no long you know being Residential Properties is no longer G to be applicable um the only problem with that AJ is once again as I said right when I did this in the fall we ended up with over 600 a bill for over $600 for two Parcels those two Residential Properties or or they they were residential but it doesn't matter you still have to have the same top head with all the information and you still have to put the person's name and all the information about the land even if it's just land and then the another lines to talk about the the amounts that that are outstanding so it really doesn't change anything there's no other documentation on either of them they're exactly the same documentation whether it's just a piece of land or a commercial property or the residential property oh so okay I I must be so I don't think I'm understanding this then I thought I thought your earlier point was that that's no longer going to be a requirement moving forward it is a requirement for non-residential properties right right so we have two different Rules running parallel right understood so I'm just saying that that that example you're saying of how last year you took them if that had happened if you if you if we experienced a similar number for this year that would no longer require the uh newspaper posting because those were very properties it said it's posting on site right exactly uh Bob I think you're muted Bob Bob you're muted we have two assessors on this panel so I think they should be able to tell us how much commercial real estate we have that might fall under this rubric 94% of our property is is residential yeah it's it's clearly it's not many I think Ellen has a good read on that as well I don't know the exact number I don't either not without my the back of the book in front of me what do you want to know I can pull up the recap I want to know what properties might that are not owned by power companies and so forth that are non commercial in town that are commercial might it might be require us to to advertise in the newspaper a taking well we're talking real property right real estate property just real estate so it would not be the 500s because that's personal if you're looking at the listing I don't have a count I can tell you the value of them is $2 million for commercial and Industrial is $1.3 million and the the the utility polls and all that stuff's in personal property not real estate it is so 3.3 million is what we have is the value of property that is taxed as commercial industrial okay out of you know I can't tell youed 339 million right right so that's a very small percentage it is yeah but it still could be one or two bills and once again two bills are over 600 TZ I would like to propose that we reduce it to 500 given that perhaps commercial properties won't be in this category of tax taking or whatever the notice says um because there's so fewer properties are like that and that's just a proposal okay well you can do it but then when I need six or 700 for an ad how about see I gotta take it from somewhere oh yeah right no I I'll take it out of one of my other line items I when to have to got to pay the bill before we go through this we could we we yeah if needed we could also do a a fincom transfer I know um okay so that's a proposal anybody have any concerns about doing that reducing this to 500 500's a small number I I mean for me I I feel like we should just leave it for a year yeah yeah yeah I I would prefer to leave it all right Kathy yeah I'm the new kid but I was gonna say the same thing just leave it all right withdraw my motion all right any questions for Ellen before we let her go Ellen when is the capital planning committee going to be meeting we're going to try to set up a meeting next week we've been waiting to get documents from any of the any of the department heads and haven't gotten them well that's good sign well no not necessarily because then people come in oh my God I missed the deadline blah blah blah blah blah you get that all the time too the deadline is February 1 yeah and that's next week week at the end of next week so you're thinking we're going to meet in the first week of February well I think yeah that's kind of what Gabe and I were talking about once we have something to discuss yeah I'm only asking because I hadn't seen a notice or anything no I know I know okay uh April yeah I was just wondering what the new Total for the fiscal year 26 budget would be with all these changes I was trying to do it in my head and it was fy2 4 was 24950 so it's 1,00 uh $1,130 well is that it yeah I wouldn't include the assistant collector though because we don't have labor costs in here well I didn't I didn't do I didn't oh okay you could I mean you could because you got it in both places but it's on The Ledger that way yeah it's a line item on The Ledger yeah but so so is it's not part of my budget so is all right so if I if I uh if we if we exclude the $1,000 for the assistant tent collector that well then you're gonna have to show that it other if you if you left it like that it's deceiving because then the total will will equal 20 uh whatever and this one's okay yeah no I'm sorry it's right have to we have a line a new line for the posting of the property yeah yeah and so that wasn't included in this before and then we have um collector certification which is its own line in the budget but I guess that doesn't matter here all right I gotta I gotta make this consistent hang on uh so because you've got it what when we first saw this the total bottom line was 23080 and that was just Ellen's tax collector expense line with the added multiple lines to this yeah right so now we're mixing things up yeah yeah thank you I agree with you George I mean and all I did was go up a thousand because of the posting piece and I'm just praying that that's all I'm going to need because I have no way of knowing but you you're also asking for a new line item a new expense to be added yeah so no we're increasing $500 for office supplies $1,000 for Postage and then this new line and $30 for Association membership all right and $30 so that is um so that's uh if you just yeah should that be 30 or 20 2600 for me membership for for the expense line it's 22880 because if you take out the last 3,000 dollars worth of items those are three separate lines posting is subra 3,000 from the 25 posting is not a separate line posting on property that's part of my operations I thought we were going to create a new line oh you're going to keep it in there yeah it's part of my budget Oh I thought you wanted a new expens that no okay okay so then we subtract to two the certification and The Collector it's 23080 where you started okay so so where I started sorry so so where from these totals were were're removing the collector certification and the assistant Town collector is that they go elsewhere okay all right so then they probably both go under payroll yes all right does that look right 2480 yeah that's what I have so maybe what we need to do to make things clear is where it is called operating categories what we identified was that everything but the last two lines are e uh operating expenses they are uh collector expenses and then the other two are salary related yes all right and then should I call them like Personnel expenses or something like that and when we handled this for the assessor this discussion didn't clarify how some things were um personnel and some things were operating but we we can work on getting clarification yeah uh no I feel like I run into this confusion every year because for C some budgets we see Personnel we list per Personnel related lines and then others we don't but but yeah we know what's going on that's important to thing okay uh Jim yes Ellen I was wondering what um if the P what is the percentage of those who pay online their taxes versus those who send you a check and otherwise have to engage you personally and has that percentage changed uh in any way over the last year or two uh I haven't noticed it changed within the last year or two but it is definitely that people either use a lockbox or the online banking very very heavily as opposed to actually coming in I mean there are people who want to come in or they're coming in for something else so they handle everything in the building at the same time but not many I see okay thank you but the other two things are in because otherwise it'd be you know you get this huge pile of envelopes and you got to open them all and it's much easier to have somebody else do all that so so most of the um you know most of the payments are on online into the lock box nowadays what 80% i' say even higher than that uh well it's deceiving because I'm sitting here thinking I have 400 Parcels that get paid through uh and through escrow accounts through one lump some that I get they pop into my machine and I pop in their list and and merge the two and end up with you know postings for a lot of parcels so you know I really can't then is that it's not they don't come in so I suppose it's considered in the other side yeah I'd say maybe 10% we get over the counter okay if that and a lot of those are excise not real estate because real estate usually are pretty high yeah excise being your car taxes you know people come in with $5 or $10 I see thank you yeah okay anything else for Ellen all right thanks for joining us Ellen appreciate it you all have a good night and stay warm all right care all right guys I will um replace that uh the the collector's budget that's in our Google folder with this one that we just worked on uh okay uh shifting gears we've got our third and final budget review for the night and that is for the fire department and I'm gonna welcome Lenny and uh hi Lenny and we're gonna I'm gonna share your budget um or your proposed budget let me make sure does this look like the current one or the right budget this is the one I'm asking for I'm asking for another line item for repairs yeah all right so why don't we um uh actually before we get to that new item line item uh You' you've got one line that's showing a small $400 increase do you want to just kind of summarize what what is that I'm trying to remember what yearly Services refers to and I I can't well yearly yearly Services I'm kind of changing it it was maintenance originally okay and a lot of things I've been I I put under the maintenance budget is more like service like hose testing pump testing uh uh plyo vent service the generator service fire extinguisher service and I have a list I G gave to Suzy that says required yearly service and testing um so in it basically it comes up to a line item at you know 11,000 400 right if I do all all of that I don't have any money for any type of repairs so what ends up happening is you know one of the a couple of the fire trucks don't get serviced or the uh the hoses don't get inspected or the the pump doesn't get in uh get uh tested Etc so it's kind of always like catchup as for you know which truck gets the yearly service for for the year and I don't I think that's bad um why anybody just anybody who's been kind of working on this stuff for longer than than I have like why is it this this depart I feel like we have a a a a maintenance line in like every other department right the police department's budget has the maintenance line the highway department is there any explanation why we don't have one on the fire department uh it was a maintenance let me look uh so you think that that used to used to be rolled into what we're seeing here is now described as yearly Services yeah so what I if Susie doesn't mind we were talking earlier uh a month or well I'll let Susie talk because she has her hand raised and then I'll all right go ahead Susie yeah so when I talked to Lenny um the word maintenance um and repair was the name of that line I see um but in fact those words for maintenance were um uh required inspections of things they weren't like um doing a lot of changing of stuffff that you might associate with you know sort of uh the highway stuff that that because it's a safety um Public Safety department they have to have things inspected to make sure they're safe enough not and that doesn't change anything other than you pay for the inspector to come in so Lenny and I talked about those are basically yearly Services um and that if if we had it as one line called yearly services and repair there would be no money for repairs so um we talked about trying to represent the costs of running the department a little bit more accurately and um it's it was interesting to go to the fire state and look at the different parts and realize that you know Walter had made some decisions to not get some things inspected so that he could repair some things um but Lenny is talking to other Fire Chiefs and they saying no you have to have that inspection done and so calling at yearly Services which is uh really in um mostly inspections got it okay thanks for all right so you're Lenny go ahead yes I have a I don't know if I can post it to you guys I know I did send it to Susie I basically had a required yearly service and testing sheet and I basically went down all this yearly stuff that is required and it you know I have it uh I have them all laid out and I I put the warrant number on them so some of them are from you know 20 uh 2025 to 2023 you know so I haven't really done yearly services on all of them all at once it's all has been staggered so I don't know if Susie can post put that in I know I know I emailed it to you back like a year ago Susie I'm not a year ago apologize uh a month ago yeah and I yeah I didn't I don't remember forwarding it to AJ so that was me dropping that ball um I could probably forward it again to somebody yeah you could have forward it to AJ right now okay but I guess just letting to clarify your point is that having it IED all of those required annual Services inspections that that the total of those that itemized list amounts to $11,400 I think that's the important for us yeah 11,395 okay yeah got all right so I think um you know you can forward that to me and I'll share it with the committee but I I I don't I don't think it's necessary to share sh like uh on my screen right now I think we get the idea you you listed a bunch of the items that fall under that um but then I guess so so then the Assumption you're making is that a reasonable estimate of the amount of required repairs to equipment that would happen in a given year is $5,000 yes I mean I'm sure you guys remembered the you know the truck need the engine two needed Ser uh Pump Service and that was 9100 I think so um yeah it I can't tell you when the next time it's going to break um and I do know I have to at some point I have to take the brush two in um and that's got electrical problems so that could be a simple fix or could be uh an expensive one so it's uh that's what I'm estimating got it okay um let's see what questions we have from the committee anybody have a question for Lenny well my I the question I have is regarding the training and call wages and what's going to be the adequate amount for fisal 26 um I think what we have right now should be sufficient uh because I had 20 on FY 24 I was over and you and you moved some money around and then you upped it to 27 so I think yeah I probably should have asked for a little more than that but I didn't um but uh yeah I think uh the reason why you guys went down on the FY 25 for 19 19,000 for the call wages because on FY 24 we didn't have many calls so it's uh again I can't uh predict how many calls we're goingon to for one year uh one year we've had 160 and then last year I think we've had 115 so that's a I can't predict stuff like that yeah but based on what you're seeing this year you think you're probably okay um yes I think it's gonna be close I don't I may go back to you guys at the last minute like I did last year but um I can't predict anything on that all right all right so it sounds like for now at least we're going to roll over these fy2 amounts for training and call wages into the FY 26 budget okay and we're going to add a a new line to distinguish it from these yearly inspections that'll be an amount of $5,000 that's the proposal at least Bob yeah I just highight uh just want to point point out that for my way looking at this document I see essentially what used to be the repair and maintenance line was $1,000 last year and now this new line yearly Services has uh just expanded a little bit in the new line repairs if you add those together which is one way of looking at that that's a 50% increase in uh repair line you know that's another way of looking at it if we use the old nomenclature and then what we have at the bot botom of this document is a 15 and a half% increase so I just want to point out I would really be interested in seeing uh the list of all these required inspections because it must have gone up tremendously for it to impact the budget this much uh and it certainly if we're required mandated to do it then we have to do it and we have to pay for it and you need a maintenance line no one qu would question that but that's a 50% increase over last year and the you know like I said 15 and a half% on budget all that's that's that's a fairly significant increase as well yes uh can I email yeah please uh what I if I [Music] can no yeah when when you get a chance why don't you go ahead and email that to me Lenny and and I'll I'll share it with the committee and I'll post it to our our Google Drive okay um trying to just do this one um what can I um don't worry take take your time to find it Lenny it's I I I don't think it's I think the point is that it' be you know there's interest in looking at it um but I don't think it needs to I don't think we need to go through it tonight as part of our meeting all right yeah let me uh let me start an email here okay and what's your email if I don't it's AJ uh yeah actually you yeah so it's my first name AJ a y AJ a y at You Youth studies yeah correct youth studies inc.com all right any other questions for Lenny while we're waiting on a no I just want I just want to ask a general question are we I think I missed it are we going to continue to use just one line for maintenance and repair or are we going to request that a repair line be created for the fire department I think the proposal here and I I I don't know personally I'm persuaded that these really are two different things the the inspections required inspections and you know repairs of equipment I mean those like those are clearly two different kinds of kinds of expenses so I'm persuaded that there should be two lines um there's a proposal about how to fund those lines and we can we can have a discussion about that but it seems Seems to make sense to add a new line to the budget go ahead Lenny yeah I can go either or on that I know Susie talked about it and she kind of stressed that she would have rather see the required expenditure on service services and testing be separate than the maintenance just so like when I'm going over my maintenance budget I can be like hey look the fire truck broke the pump broke and you know something else broke versus is the required testing and services is that should that's a little more of a uh that's all required and it's it is what it is yeah it's yeah and you know other departments have uh you know kind of maintenance repair lines but I don't think they have this other type of expense that's getting loaded into that where it's like really more about inspections and safety equipment so okay uh any other questions for Lenny before we let him go so I did send that to you okay so you might be able to find it shortly okay great yeah I see it now uh and since we're talking about it I'll share it all right all right so you can see it here could you blow that up a little about a dozen items you know what I might need to here we go so 11,000 so those Rose Leed no those are for uh repairs aren't they that's yearly service yeah maintenance repair not inspections right yeah the yes uh the vehicle inspections that's to to get the inspection sticker uh SCBA flow test all her breathing not scbas our breathing packs they they have a guy that comes comes out and tests them and all the masks the compressor the filter has to get uh changed and the compressor serviced um pump testing that is uh that's when they uh they test the capacity on the pump and then check all the valves make sure none nothing's leaking hose testing they make sure all the hoses uh are safe to use plyo vent service they the other people come out and service the P vent service that's for the AUM evacuation system um fire extinguisher service that's when all the fire extinguishers get inspected they're required to get inspected yearly generator service that's $600 to petor um so yeah as for the rose ledge bills they basically they change the oil and they do a full full Road check they take the wheels off they look at the brakes uh Etc so those numbers change a little bit from one warrant to the other like I said you know and my this is all really should be done every year and if you look at the warrant date some of them are 2023 and you know one of them is done on 2025 so I've put all that over the course of you know almost three years here okay all right but there's but there's all of these things that we're looking we see on this list are either an inspection or or um mandatory service yes like service right none of them are repairs um that for to specific problems yeah right yes okay got it okay any other questions for Lenny all right Lenny I think we can let you go then thank you for uh for sharing this uh thanks Susie for working with Lenny on organizing all this information thank you all right well might as well hang up before my battery dies on the laptop good night all right sounds good all right good night Lenny thank you okay um so that's the last of our budget reviews tonight so I only have uh two more items one is um reviewing minutes why don't we do that real quick uh and let's see George S minutes from January 7th all right Kathy I looked high and and low and George does such a great job on these minutes um it wasn't easy but I found a tiny tiny little T that's I am not insulted if you find something no and by tiny I mean I mean really tiny are you looking at December 10th uh the one you sent this afternoon I think January 7th right oh we're looking at January 7th okay January 7th okay section 4G just a tiny little in this in the school ah school has been recognized by the state as a high performing school that one I yeah performing there you go that's all oh preforming yes right okay you got otherwise it looked great to me yeah uh anybody else have any questions or Corrections Susie I had a question on page one h three it says any assistance of Veteran receives will decrease their monthly benefit so I was trying to remember what that um how that played out in that conversation well we were trying to figure out how much money to put aside and I don't think it was necessarily something we it was just a comment that was made and I just wanted to record it that's all okay the the assistance from the VA then any assistance from anybody I think it's any other public assistance that they receive factored into the calculation right okay right I think that was is that wording still okay is that that would include something like fuel assistance um yes you know things are not can we maybe change it as any any public assistance yeah I think receives will decrease their monthly VA benefit or something like that a that doesn't quite cover it because she uh said that if they work it also would increase their benefit so it's not just Public Assistance it's income oh it's some kind of compensation or income that they receive would reduce the benefit that we'd be responsible for you want me to add that any assistance or income yeah yeah maybe any public Assistance or income that proceeds any public assistance or income a vent receives that's what I have right now right will decrease their monthly benage okay you got it Susie is that anything else or that was it yeah and then uh the other one I was confused about was on page three section 7 B um that we pay 800 for maintenance and testing plus 259 for reports for each home so I'm not sure what the 800 for maintenance means do you mean the initial filter she mentioned she used the word maintenance I I'm not I think it's the person coming in and testing and doing what you know I called it maintenance and testing but I think she was referring to the cost of the agency sending a person to our home I I think that's the word that Gabe used okay I think you're right George they have to do either replace or clean the filters on a regular basis and that's expensive yeah inspect yeah yes it's it's actually probably testing they don't they don't clean filters but um they initially install and then they test what um what the water set has they take a water sample yeah yeah yeah they do look at the equipment but I don't think they really have to do anything to it they change the filters or not yet okay we're not there yet I think we could leave it I I think that you know this whole thing will become more obvious over time well you know it's Susie and I did meet with Aaron and Susie had a lengthy conversation with Aon about all this and I do think we have to consider and now was probably not the time but we have to consider at what point do we start putting money in the operating budget for the ongoing activities right you know right now we have no idea and this is not the year to put anything new in the budget as far as I'm concerned but it is something we're have to think about yeah maybe we can just get these minutes approved and then I do want to talk about some of the other things Aon said okay all right so I don't see any other hands so I'll make a a motion to approve the minutes as amended from January we still got the December ones as well December [Music] 10th do I have a second on that second okay right uh let's go ahead and vote George AR Groves Hing I cashew I moer I Salvador I in Stein I great all right and George you said we so we we haven't approved December 10th December 10th okay aware that let's see I can't even remember did we start to talk about this or we just ran out of time no we didn't we didn't even get to it okay all right we never talked about these got it last meeting we were pretty tied up kind of like today okay all right so here are the minutes from December 10th these are quite extensive uh any questions or Corrections I'll scroll through this here I I have a note from our last meeting that we approved the minutes from December 10th and I kind of remember it because I missed that meeting and I had to abstain am I misremembering so I don't think we did I think basically we didn't talk about the minutes I don't know I we could go back and look at the recording but I think we skipped them completely because we had um so much going on in that particular meeting and we ended up um going until almost nine o'clock yeah yeah and I don't see I don't see them in the in the in the minutes we just approved so uh yeah I would had it in there if we did it I'm pretty sure we didn't all right in fact I know we didn't because I was GNA say something but we were all pretty tagger so I just let it go thanks that was wishful thinking on my part then yeah well we could always approve him a second time you know sure why not let's be thorough [Music] I think they're a work of art certainly extensive thank you George a lot uh I don't see any hands so I'm gonna make a motion to approve the minutes from December 10th is written I'll second that okay George S Groves I Hemingway I cashew I mosure I Salvador obain and Stein I great all right only other item I have is an ARS update but Susie it sounds like you had some some other news from your conversation with Aaron that you wanted to share what we talk um so we talked with Aaron about the past and one aspect of it is the workload especially because shuberry was setting the path for dealing with this there was no template to follow the workload on the administration is ridiculous and so even getting the second Grant from the Clean Water Act um creates this big paper paperwork thing we're in a difficult time because we changed administrations at the same moment and the institutional memory for this unusual thing uh walked out the door and the paperwork was honorous all towns will end up dealing with past this is not a shutesbury problem and so he suggested that the the burden on local Administration for for for this particular project and probably many others needs to be lifted out of the town and put on like a furog thing um I know arpa did the same thing arpa created a lot of paperwork for all these towns and um the way life is going having these duties put on Administration in small towns is not going to be workable so I don't know if we should have a little subcommittee of people kick around aspects of the P situation and then draw up a proposal um I will just say that furog has a mixed record on what it can pull off um and I don't even really know um I don't know personally what we would ask them to do but we do know that like getting the paperwork for the Clean Water trust um was was a lot of front work and it happened again at the next application and he said yeah that doesn't have to happen the application process doesn't have to be a big bureaucratic hurdle so um we for the finance end of this we should maybe figure out what to advocate for for our town because we don't have a a full time administrator right now maybe this has to wait but like George said we have to at least get through another year of FY 26 looking at those expenses and deciding how to put them in the budget are they a separate borrowing thing warrant or what but this this idea of just having towns manage this kind of bureaucracy is is not okay it it's it's not even possible has to be done differently [Music] George do you think that's what he was acknowledging yeah no he agreed with us um he didn't you know he didn't see this the dust settling on this anytime soon there's no money it seems like at the state level other than through this loan program to support us and he did make the recommendation about fog which I think this issue is big enough for all these small towns that you know economies of scale Mak sense and so and having a big brother to advocate for everybody I think would also be really good I I don't know fog's history in this regard but yeah that's about it yeah so it's really two separate issues right because even in that scenario I'm assuming jurisdictions would would be financially responsible for you know for paying for their the obligation that you know that uh falls on their town because of you know what whatever issues have been discovered but so in that scenario we might in addition to more support from the state for these expenses we probably would pay fur Cog or whoever was responsible for it some amount of funds based on Our obligation that they would administer along with sort of the administrative he also suggested that um somehow furog could reframe it to be like an ongoing thing not like this year yeah oh yeah this year um so that it wouldn't have to get refiled every year and that and you'd need somebody bigger than us to make that case and and design it and our administrators don't have that time and and expertise yeah wow yeah if if we knew that we were going to be compensated for this which is not true I'm I'm sure from everything I've heard we could hire a professional engineer to manage this for us but that's an issue that has to be understood whether or not there's going to be federal or state money available to us to pay for this I think sui is absolutely right this is an extraordinary burden on our little town to uh administer this on a yearly basis over and over again and that an engineer really in a perfect world or let's just say a more perfect world there would be State help uh to do this uh with professionals doing it who are used to doing it and could do it more efficiently anyway than us so I don't know how we could look into that uh whether Aaron knows about that or whether there's any other May division of water quality or our own water committee could look into it for us I I don't no just uh I think division of water quality must must be hip to this issue right in Boston I mean um I don't know who could who could look into that maybe we should as soon he suggested form a subcommittee to to to investigate that be nice to lay it out somebody else but uh maybe there isn't somebody else any ideas on that well I think that if we had a subcommittee we'd identify what the different um pieces are that are problematic and then try to put together um just even represent that to somebody including Joe cord um including furog um because these are going to show up in other people's communities you know it's it's um I talked to Gabe today she said New Salem has a problem a past problem I know Sunderland has a past problem but they're just in a different place than we are um um and so we we could figure out what we where the glitches are and see who can help us think what do we need to get along that every town is going to need to get along with yeah uh April yeah I'm wondering if somebody like Al wner and shuberry who isn't quite has a lot of knowledge about groundwater because that's what we're dealing with it's so you know I I I don't know how we decide in town where to test you know you know it's just it gets into the groundwater and it's everywhere um but I I you know a subcommittee might help but I wonder if something more Regional as well needs to happen if there's a way to connect with other local towns I mean what town doesn't have the problem maybe that would be easier to think about well I don't know if he has the capacity for this but could could we ask Aaron or somebody from his office if there's any interest ability to convene some kind of a regional discussion um you know he it sounds like we have some information about you know a couple other mun municipalities that are dealing with this um but I'm sure that's not complete list right and so maybe one step in this process would be first to get some clarity on like what are all of the towns that have received kind of these notices and are in some stage of the process of dealing with remediating these issues and and then you know have somebody like you know Saunders office convene a sort of public kind of discussion where you know we could get together with the other towns that are dealing with this and and maybe kind of develop a strategy together because the only thing that sounds a little weird to me about us kind of putting together um you know like a a subcommittee is that it's it's not it's like right it's not a sheets Berry problem it's like the and and and a sheets B solution it's a it's a regional like it's really a it's beyond the region but it's it's a regional problem and Regional solution that is kind of needed and so my instinct is that if somebody like an Aaron Saunders office could convene something that that might be more effective uh Bob yeah just one thing occurred to me I think the first thing that I would do and maybe I will do is called the Consulting engineer that we hired to investigate this issue and who was the one who delineated the issue uh designed the whole program that that were undertook to to install and this person being a professional being doing this kind of work Statewide maybe region wide should be aware of whatever is available what the resources are available that would help pay his bills so that's just the way it works in these situations I think I don't know the name of that engineer I've heard of it many times but I don't recall what what it is pardon me it's Jeffrey Arps but I I guess maybe that's possible that he watched how his bills are paid but this is really a bureaucratic problem that um I was addressing um because I had just watched the town do a lot of work to get submit the kind of information the Clean Water trust required even though I mean including like well why is this an emergency excuse me this started off as an emergency and aon's office got involved because it was emergency why do we have to start in the bureaucrat thing like can you write in a little essay why this is an emergency and then you go to the next application and be asked the same questions so I so he we were talking more about the bureaucratic thing the the way the water was detected and the way the testing is set up by D that's required that's pretty clear to the town but how you pay for it is the part that um has been just Tangled in bureaucracy and he he acknowledged that there's many things that come out of the state that are that way they they specialize in bureaucracy we're busy trying to fix things here we don't specialize in bureaucracy that's not what we need to spend our time and money doing and so that was so his suggestion and I agree with AJ that maybe what we need to do is get him or Joe kford to approach this to have a discussion and then figure out who do approach and how to push it and and what I'm really feeling it's the bureaucracy that costs us time and money and has been really um not forthcoming for a very ongoing Pro problem right okay uh all right anything else come out of your meeting that you wanted to share um the one thing I will mention is you probably saw in the paper that next year the state is going to release an extra 650 million dollar from the SE sir tax that went into effect and so I asked him does that mean more money for Chapter 70 by which he said no it's all going to go to Transportation mostly NBTA so doesn't uh when I first saw that I was very hopeful that they might come up with more funding for Chapter 70 and he just eliminated that hope Right Out of My Head got [Music] it well speaking of if you if um I can give an update from the regional school committee which met on January 14th um I sent around the slide deck that um they uh that Shannon kind of walk through this was this was part of an agenda item which was their kind of for Town and followup uh I don't want to take up too much time it's 8:15 but the long and the short of it is that there were um there there are now sort of four models uh that were discussed at this meeting um and I'll just explain what they are first of all there there's some new assumptions around um expenses um I don't think I go into them right now but um okay so model one is one where you know we fully fund the budget there's no deficit no Cuts required and we app y this the modified statory method to determine how much each town is going to pay you can see what that results in here basically a 12% increase for shutesbury 8% for ammer all the way up to 27% for pelum um okay an important important model just for us to understand kind of what the sort of Baseline is uh next model is one that um basically caps ammer at a 4% increase but then uses the modified statutory method to determine the corresponding uh increases for all other communities under this model we we results in a $1 million deficit and for shuberry it results in a 6.7% increase or increase of $111,000 above our FY 25 but you can see here you know we're look still looking at large increases for pelum and and Leever OKAY model three is kind of you know the approach that I think we're moving away from but is kind of what we did last year which is apply a fixed guard rail um to all four towns which basically results in you know in in a fixed increase for for all towns and that that would be 4% this Model results in a $1.4 million deficit okay and then Shannon shared kind of her thinking on a hybrid model which um essentially I I it's kind of she she walked through the the math I think the important thing to share right now is that this this assumes that um there's um a 3% increase that ammer can do and then basically um kind of applies the proportional amount of the assessment that each Town pays to determine then what um yeah what everybody's assessments are and this results in okay so that is wait this is the wrong slide sorry uh okay that results in this model here uh which is amoris increasing by 3% pelum increasing by 14% lever increasing by basically 9% and sheets Barry by by 3% problem here is that this and I don't know why she did this but this model applies the same deficit of 1.4 million this is the scary slide so what is what what is this deficit and this is kind of splitting the difference here she's basically she showed what a what kinds of cuts would be required if the deficit was $1.2 Million I don't quite know how she I think she was trying to sort of split the difference between these two different models one that results in a $1 million deficit and another another one that results in a one form bottom line here is that we're looking at reductions totaling 24 positions um five in the central office eight teachers five clerical staff and six par professionals I mean this is this is not pretty you know this is going to be really significant um okay um I can't even remember what this slide was but oh this is where this is where the reductions are are basically coming from I think that was the point of this slide anyway I think I'm gonna pause there I just want to kind of keep you guys in the loop on this Shannon uh again who to just remind everybody she's the new Finance director for the region she sent me an email asking for a discussion a meeting that I think is going to happen on Thursday presumably it was to like talk through some of this um I don't know what else there is to say right now but I I think there there are a couple takeaways here I think one one is positive which is that I think I think wherever we land it's not going to be a model that uniformly applies an increase to all four towns um you you know I think that I think they heard enough feedback and and and even though there is one of the four models discussed here was a guard rails model they didn't spend a lot of time on it at the meeting and everybody was sort of talking as if that that's not where we're going to end up so I don't think we're g to have a model that that yeah that that applies a uniform increase to all four communities um I think that's the positive I think you know the negative is that we are I think I think we're likely to look at a model that you know is g to call for a significant number of reductions staff reductions and I think that's I think we're going to have a similar kind of public outcry that uh that we that we had last year um I don't know any questions or comments Bob I just want to say number one that as far as I'm concerned we should be very uh firm about staying with the statute the modified statutory method because the more that we employ these compromises or hybrids or guardrails the further we get away from the from those levels of funding for our respective towns so that's my position on that the other thing is looking at this budget you see a couple things one that the budget increased 6.85% uh over last year which is an extraordinary increase uh for a budget after it increased last year I think by another 6% and the other thing that I noticed looking at these numbers was that even though was a 6.85% increase in spending the support from Chapter 70 was so meager that it end resulting in a 10 point something per uh increase in the what what has to be assessed because of the the lack of support from the state so that makes it even more difficult looking at those numbers so we're facing a real crisis of this the school and the related expenses and uh as far as I'm concerned we have to stay with the statutory modified statutory method it all comes down to what ammer what people are willing to pay and amest will be the big big voice in this because if they set their level at whatever percent 4% 5% 6% we're going to follow along with that and we're going to pay our fair share and I hope that we do it under this uh modified statutory system of assessment because that is these other measures don't really make sense that's that's my opinion at least yeah okay yeah uh let's see let's go to Susie in a timeline um I heard from Anna heard that this fourtown meeting is projected for February 8th Saturday February 8th we have a uh fincom meeting on the 4th fourth yeah no yes on the fourth so I do think we need to digest these numbers some and figure out what what we're what our positions are and it does sound like there's going to be a modified statutory approach that's already here um and so we're not having to argue that the the big part comes with how much amoris is going to do and amoris has actually been less willing and in time um oh I know um it the select board met with uh the Town Clerk and we we will have our town meeting on April 26th that's a set deal yeah and one of the things about that is that that's pretty much ahead of ammer and so what happened last year is the small towns met first and they set the table so um and amoris was very upset about having to go along with that it looks like that's going to happen again um yeah we don't know whether the small towns will agree but I I don't think ammer is going to be the lead on this they're going to be loud at the fourtown meeting but I'm not sure they're going to actually be the ones that set the table um I want to mention that the local school budget um the rural Aid was projected at 880,000 since that had come in the previous year and I told them it was important to go with that number um the rural Aid was not figured correctly at the state level they forgot Martha's Vineyard and Williamsburg Williamsburg and so the real Aid came in at uh 76 something um so they are using 76,000 for their revenue projection for Rural Aid in FY 26 so it changed the percentage a little bit because we were hoping for 80,000 so there's just a nudge there but there's that nudge happens in all the towns that were in that pie and amorist gets rural Aid um so what we're really hoping is that rural Aid will go from this year's pie of 16 million to next year maybe 60 million and if they do that we're already in that pie and we will benefit but Caitlyn also said the state is being um edgy about our Title One funds and that maybe we won't qualify those this year it's like stop it it's just such a shell game um and she who said it uh oh Aaron said don't look to the state to backfill what the federal government is screwing up right now because the federal government um did not include rural education Aid we already have the grant for 2025 that already has been received so even though they changed things December it's not going to affect FY 25 but unless this budget gets the federal budget gets fixed it could affect FY 26 um and those are the numbers that we're already counting on and we're uh 16,000 for the reap Grant so it's really mushy we're not going to know by April 26th we're going to have to use the iic that fincom use which is realistic and conservative numbers um but there's a lot of moving Parts it's like the Box sprang open this year and we have a lot to deal [Music] with uh George yeah I I just have one question Susie what was that date for the um tenative schedule for the for time I heard it's February 8th Saturday February 8th AJ did you hear that at your meeting I didn't um but it's I did notice that and I I I just I looked at the fincom inbox just before we pulled up there's no mention of it but I do I'm gonna pull it up right now I think there is a meeting posted and I was wondering is that the four towns meeting it was like labeled a little bit different um so I'm just going to pull it up right now uh yeah February 8 towns meeting and special meeting of ammer that must be that's Saturday it does look like it yeah February 8 at nine nine o'clock presumably at the middle school again yeah so let's even though they haven't I don't know what they're waiting for but even though they haven't notified uh the towns yet let's all pencil that in tentatively uh as the next four towns meeting I also Al just wanted to say like of these models that at least were presented at the last meeting um I think the one that I personally could could um you know I'm not I'm not sure I like any of them but the the one that maybe I prefer is this model two which is which has the smaller of the two deficits they were looking at it's a million dollars as opposed to$ 1.4 million and it applies the modified statutory method without any any hybrid approach any guard rails or anything it's a huge you know it's you know it's it's a big step for for pelum and Lett but kind of you know there was some discussion at the last four towns meeting of well maybe we do need to just sort of have a year where where everybody kind of bites the bullet and just you know we just apply the the formula and we we we deal with it and then that sort of sets things for future budget years um you know it's a big increase for us 6.7% but um but I you know but it but I think you know it's a smaller deficit fewer losses Personnel losses and it it commits everybody to the modified statutory method without any funny man and I think ammer despite their protests can afford to increase their assessment by 4% so I was wondering if you all were comfortable with me at least um mentioning when she because again Shannon has requested a meeting that that of the models that were discussed at their last meeting this is the one that was most that we most preferred I if that's a reasonable position to take Bob and then y I just want to say I I absolutely agree with that and I would support that you know happily and I think that uh it's again it's predicated on Amber going with four but hey my prediction is that Amber is going to come under a lot of political pressure from the people in town uh there's nothing that is more politically engaged than a parent uh if it maybe unless maybe it's a school teacher or but uh there's going to be a lot of pressure for Amis to concede this I think they'll probably do that I think 4% is reasonable assumption that they'll they'll go there uh that's my guess but I will definitely support that and I would definitely want you to represent that to the to the regional school committee okay George we need to look at the budget and see what we can do I know I right now we haven't seen the budget and Gabe hasn't presented it to us I know she's still pulling numbers together I did meet with her today and we talked about the budget she and I have a plan to kind of coordinate what we're doing and I'll keep her involved like the things we did today I'm going to let her know about but you know the back of the envelope at I was using 66,000 for Regional School increase um and the things the big items add up to about $360,000 increase in our budget and then there's a lot of the little items across a lot of the Departments and we'll have to see what we get from Gabe so we're looking at I'm telling you 450 if we do what you just suggested here add another 50,000 for the region we're $450,000 we're approaching a half a million doll increases on our budget we're approaching what would amount to you know 9% increase in our budget and we're not going to get that kind of Revenue so I want to support the school and this 111,000 is a that in the 121 for the elementary school alone those two things combin are are really tough increases for us but one thing um we're noticing is I met with the Personnel Board and we talked about the potential Cola and it looks like we're it's going to be just under 3% but I did an analysis for um the police chief and because she's in negotiations right now her salary is looking like it's much lower than the rest of the the um Franklin County Police Chiefs and we know that the Town Administrator they're advertising the position for much greater than what was in there last year so we're just this is a tough year on the budget and I think we really do need to sit down with Gabe and try to get a picture of how our budget is stacking up before we start making Promises to the region yeah uh excuse me and we need a revenue picture to be generated we know that two and a half on what we already have that increases like 160,000 or something um but we need to look at the other numbers and and we need to be putting a letter together to let our legislators and our governor know we will have next week probably the governor's first shot and so where we know the cap on the um ctax is going to be increased and we heard what Aaron said maybe the governor wants to spin it a little differently we don't know but it's always good to know your Revenue as best you can no we need to I think you know there's not a whole lot of Hope in Revenue because the Chapter 70 number doesn't look like it's going to change tremendously it's not going to change by more than the less than 1% we see every year and I don't you know the pilot money that we keep hoping is going to increase just doesn't seem to happen quaven bill seems to be stuck and those are potential sources of revenue that just aren't happening and New Growth is really the only other place and that's a hard one to put a a value on we know that there's some work being done this year but who knows I mean last year we were very lucky by the way um the numbers are out for almost all towns except for eight on the average single t uh family tax bill Bill and um our increase was about I think $140 and that's a lot less than a lot of other towns were that's less than a lot of other towns were and so we mve down the list in terms of where we are relative to other towns in terms of our average single family tax bill but that's George since since you've [Music] um you know had kind of started the conversation with Gabe do do you think it's reasonable for us to expect at least a preliminary rough uh expense budget for our next meeting I think you I think you should ask Gabe because Gabe is working on all the Town Administrator things okay you know we we've pretty much heard from every department and those are all in Gabe has those I have those yeah and we can use a 2.95% for the pay increase that's good enough for this analysis it's only going to be that 95 is what I'm predicting the index won't be out but I used December's index and it was like 2.93 and so probably 2.92 so I think you know the January index will be a little higher and it'll bring that number up but I don't think it's going to exceed 3% so you can use 3% for analysis purposes which amounts to about $15,000 you know because a lot of people are under contract the school has a union in particular um and that's that's already set yeah but I think that's probably a question for Gabe is she GNA be comfortable to and I don't think she's looked at the revenue side yet I did you know I did mention it to her she is aware of it although I didn't mention it today because we were focused on the expenses okay all right I'll touch base with her all right I think for a timeline we really do need to have that rough draft next on the February 4th meeting um we know that the school committee will be in for a brief review of theirs um but I believe we need to have it in hand because first of all it makes me very anxious and if I know what I'm dealing with I'm less anxious uh maybe um but the other thing is this is going to be the transition time for the ITA and so we may need to do some of the work ourselves to get there um and I I mean really I don't think we did the whole calendar from if Town meetings on April 26 but we can do that now and we need to know that we need to start working on this one one thing I can tell you is talking to Gabe today is it sounds like she's going to be around past February initially that it was going to be the end of February but she said basically she talked to the select board and she's going to be around probably could be through March for sure and possibly even right up to town meeting and it also depends on who they hire because you know if we hire a Town Administrator um with Town Administrator experience they may not want Gabe to be here if we hire a manager who is qualified and strong but doesn't really know municipal government that well that person may want Gabe here and Gabe said you know she was she could be flexible through May so just so you know it's we don't have to worry about an end date for her as far as getting the budget because I think she'll for [Music] that April I just also wanted to add to the fund that we don't have any uh Capital items right yet um nothing has been presented and I also worry about you know how this is impacting you know is pelum going to be able to do the 22% lever the 133% every one of us all of the towns are under extreme pressure you know it's it's nuts it is nuts yeah uh Bob yeah is there I'm curious is there any way out of this uh deadline for the town meeting on the original date or can we get around that no the um in the discussion they the process of R notifying all the registered voters that this is the new date which would only end end up being two weeks later um and the cost and the work to that they voted to stick with the original date okay and what what's that original date I I Know It uh April 26 yeah right there on the screen oh yeah okay I'm on the minutes all right um so I'm gonna uh I'm going to just treat my call with Shannon as just I'm just going to listen it be kind of an information call I'm not going to I'm not gonna share any position uh I'll let her know that we're meeting next on February 4th and that you know I'm sure we'll we'll spend time at that meeting um planning and strategizing for for four Town's meeting on the 8th but I'll I'll leave at that for now and then I think you know when we talk on the fourth hopefully we will have some sense of at least on the expense side what what the budgets looking like based on you know our meetings so far with with the department heads Susie there are things we haven't taken time to do and I know it's not because we've been eating Bond bonss and laughing a lot it's because we haven't looked at the review we haven't reviewed the expense report and last year I suggested that we have just two people spend their time doing that and bring to us to bring to the committee what is happening I think especially because Gabe also is not um able to provide that so I would suggest that um at quarter of nine tonight that we just have two people that want to look over the most recent expense report and flag anything that they want to and bring that to the next meeting because you know we don't we don't haven't been able to do it yeah um no I think that's a good idea uh who's uh anybody willing to to volunteer to do that Bob yeah thank you uh anybody else Kathy I'll give it a shot okay all right so um just to remind you I think you know the uh I I would just pull whatever the most recent uh expense report on the the website which right now is what is it uh December something December 19th um so you know perhaps there'll be a new one but uh but if you could what whatever you see is the most recently posted expense report that'd be great and I'll make sure we save some time on the agenda at our next meeting to to uh discuss that okay any other business before we wrap up tonight thanks for hanging in there guys we've had a couple of long meetings just because we've had lots of budget reviews um but it's time next one will be too yeah um okay uh I'll make a a motion to adjourn our meeting grov Hemingway I moer I Salvador I and Stein I all right thanks everybody lot of fun you next meeting February 4th talk soon bye bye