e hello hey how are you doing doing right how about you okay hey Peg hi Peg I'm unmuted hi Becky hi George here we are yep another Thursday there's April yeah for some of us this is going to complete the this is going to complete the trifecta there's a trifecta a tri Trifecta a trifecta three nights in a row what am I going to do tomorrow I don't know watch basketball I don't like basketball yeah is that your sail boat I see parked on the road yes mine kayaks in front of it is that you that's me oh okay that's that is the uh getting a head start huh well it's been there all winter but yeah it's oh has it we have a beautiful beautiful canoe that had a tree fall on it it has a hole this big in it oh and I don't know anybody who does fiberglassing but it's a beautiful canoe did you look for repair kits online because I had to repair kits I had to repair cracks in mine you could do that oh there it's my Boatyard that's my Boatyard that's a nice problem that's a good thing yeah there are definitely patch kits out there for fiberglass canoes just it's such a beautiful it's got wood ins it's just a lovely o who makes it I don't remember serac s yeah yeah a CAC there is a CAC I have mine's the Adera Canoe Company it's a fiberglass it weighs 24 pounds it's a no it's a Kevlar 24 24 pounds you're that's too easy oh it's not easy when you gota walk over mountains you gota walk a half a mile down a trail we used to use our our like 17 foot aluminum grum we used to Portage that thing but we used to do a lot of things yeah right I still do that we still Canoe Camp oh that's the new that's the old guys backpacking oh awesome so what did what meetings this is your third meeting you had fincom and what else of assessors that's usually pretty that's pretty short pcom is always so short yeah and it's always easy stuff the decisions are so simple yeah two hour discussion on one time one topic I think we had to do that I I no it was important it was the regional budget an assessment and the school committee's Devotion to their students yes right yeah yep without any concern for their parents who have to putot the bill yeah no kidding oh it's that it's that tension you know that you know if if we were getting letters from people and we were hearing from the general public I'd have a better idea of how much support there might be for something like that but you know there's I'm not blaming anybody I'm just it's up to us we have to decide we kind of got to measure the pulse ourselves we got two people that were supporting it out of you know nobody else really approached us on it one in the email and one at the meeting who is the one in the email I didn't see the email you forwarded a a letter from Mary Lou oh yeah right oh sorry and then yeah no that's okay and um we had uh Elizabeth Fernandez ran was there husband with a very impassioned statement yes yes and I I I watched the video of the meet the second evening's meeting I did not watch the public comment I'm sure that that also was very passionate oh you know it's tough it's tough you know this is a cliff that you know we kind of saw coming yeah that's why I ra I don't know what we could do about it we were hoping for some something man it from Heaven I don't know but well we got it for three years from you know because of covid the federal money bridged the Gap and we made ourselves dependent on it and that was the mistake yeah but we needed to because of the need for counselors right which hasn't changed I mean the kids are yeah I said that in sers I said you know it looks like CO's not over and it is ramping down but the funding is ramping down too quickly yeah was basically what I said to him I don't even know if that's really true I mean shouldn't go down at all really but and has our uh defense budget gone way way down I don't think so you know it's yeah but if you watch the news you kind of need your defense budget I hate to tell you but you also need an educated public when you watch the news hey you know when you have which news to watch which teaches out in Colorado and it's the same thing out there you know postco they're having a lot of you know hard times financially and it's not just amers it's you know South Hadley schools all over Northampton absolutely Town yep not just it's not just us it's it is systemic you know and that's why you would think the state would say Hey you know maybe we need to think about the way we're directing our funds yeah property taxes is not the way to find education that's right if we Pro time and again yeah yep you know Chapter 70 just hasn't kept up with the times no I would pay more tax I would pay more also we've been we were on we were accustomed to being on the rich side of Chapter 70 we got unprecedented announce because of ammer unique um classification having a lot of low income although being a mixture with a lot of wealth um the grandfathering has kept us going but they're not gonna you know we're not grandfathered anymore we've hit this skids yeah only gotten you know 30 or $100 per kid for the last what seven years but if it wasn't for the grandfathering we'd really been in trouble yeah because they could have cut a million2 million dollars out and it would would have been even worse and shury too I mean our population as well they could have cut out a lot nope we qualify are we right now I haven't looked at the calculations in years yeah no I I still yeah I got to check it this year but we're still I mean our average income compared to the other four to I I understand that lower I understand that completely are what 30% lower than Leverett and yeah it it's just we are Le we have less wealth um I don't I know that's true but when I was looking a number of years ago when you do the calculation of the age you get you compare it to last year's AIDS and you get the higher of the two and for a while there we were getting the higher of last year last year's was the higher because our population numbers were going down yeah but I think they've got they're starting to go back up a little bit we had that huge kindergarten you know the baby the oh it's coming there's babies all over the road yeah no it's coming right around us we got babies yeah which is very awesome yeah just you know we need to Value education you know and and the infrastructure of our town I mean you we need we need it all but we need more money oh yes yes moving on folks moving on Melissa yeah what about Melissa I texted her no response okay and we haven't give her a call just to be S oops I can't hear oh okay she's muted and we know Ann's not coming yeah yeah most likely okay I haven't seen her on the road have you seen her on the road April I haven't seen her on the road lately no I haven't had time to do the road as much as I'd like I've been for the walk what's happening with your dog your dogs oh um my uh Hank's cousin went back with her dad her so she's at Rockridge retirement community somehow really yeah you never got to meet her no she would have jumped all over you H so that's she's a challenge over there but he's he's I think he has enough dog walkers well good yeah Hank Hank sort of yeah he's are funny dude no answer seen it all yes he has what Becky no answer okay right she's been working her job has really gotten big hasn't it uh you know it's the new job she took on more you know she took on something big good for her I mean I think she likes her career when we talk to her she seems happy about it oh yeah they and she's traveling to Boston once a month now because of one of the projects she's on so I think that's what happened at our last meet I don't know what her schedule was today yeah well well well let's start our meeting what time is it whatever Mee start4 3 643 okay call the meeting to order and let's approve the minutes so I move that we approve the minutes they're right here wait a minute from one small thing um on on two it says the use clerk you want the land use land uh a there it is okay land you cler let's see only thing I saw anybody else see anything thank you George fine minutes fine minutes they look you're welcome than all those in favor Ross Stein ey okay done and moving along Let's see we were going to go right to the um salary alignment study yeah thank you George for doing all that welcome um would you like me to walk you through it on the screen yeah I would very much so yes got get one second sorry take your time just let me know you're good okay um so you all remember this oh every every minute of it yeah it look so much I really appreciate your ability to do this yes I do too it's it's beyond me Beyond me no much apprciated it's pretty basic so what I did was I I meant to have this open it's so one thing I forgot to do be with me so you know you're all familiar with you're all familiar with this right y so it's really going down and and lifting the numbers off it which is you know a little challenging because every town reports differently yeah so some report the salary in the hours some report um I'm sorry the yeah the salary and the hours some report the hours and the hourly rate and some sometimes miss a piece of information so I just grabbed the ones that I know what is what when they give me the salary I've got a section here that has all the position and the salaries where there's a salary and then down here I have for those same positions in those towns corresponding hours and then if they just give me the hours I just put in the hour a pay rate per hour I put the pay rate per hour these in green are making the calculation from the top salary divided by the hours per week and the weeks per year to get us this number so you can tell which ones are paid salary and which ones are paid hourly and so here's your towns and of course we all seen the survey right so we all know which survey it is so it's all these towns and there's only three that aren't in Franklin County Peter Peter's ham planfield and Williamsburg why how are they in there there was another report that came that was called other regions and so I looked I looked in the towns of that here I'll show you that one too and I looked at the towns in there and those were comparable relatively close and do you see this one right here it's coming up oh no that's the XEL version I'm sorry here we go again so I'll just show you so these towns these towns were in there so Adams is too far away athl is a different scale as is belur town and Dalton and agramon's too far away montere is that's brookers and that's kind of far away but you know this guys are just this one right here playing field is just on the edge of Franklin County and of course Peter sham is just on the edge of Franklin County and Williamsburg a little bigger than us but not that big and you know close enough so those are the three I picked off and if you want I can delete any one of them or add one of these if you'd like okay if we also got lever in there lever is in the Franklin County report County oh this is right right these are just the ones that aren't in Franklin right I just heard from Melissa and she said she's not here because she didn't see the link there was no link when she went to get on right just like the rest of us did you tell her it's there now yep all right so here she comes nice there she is yeah give me one second yes because I will forget where should we put her all right back to there she is that busy woman oh my God hey how you doing good how you good you sound busy bus busy busy yeah I'm actually in a in a restaurant at the moment I went to the um johnah ha's wake earlier she just went mute yeah oh okay can you see her I just oh there hello what's for dinner um cing go and spaghetti oh oh that sounds good so I was just showing everybody the uh alignment study and we have the data for Franklin County but we also had this report which had a few other towns on it that I included and we were just talking about whether um we should add any of the other towns or exclude the three that I put on which are Peter ham Peter's ham planfield and Williamsburg they about our size or no are they larg yeah for those three towns I took the data and loaded into our study I've lost Melissa again no I'm here I just turned off my I turned off my um I turned off my um video she's trying to eat so does that does that make sense everybody should I that does make sense there are some smaller towns who just not in our area no I think I think it does make sense I think yeah I agree I her okay then let me um then let me go back to so so so you know where the source of all this data is and you know which towns there are yeah oh there they are okay there're our little friends yeah they're all across and so let me page down to the meat of the report the the results of the report so in this section we now have all those hourly rates by the way the ones that are pink are towns that have shared positions this double asteris is when that's a treasure collector and those are in this beige color whatever you want to call Tan color so that's why those are highlighted that way so what I do is and I think you all know this is this C we have in this column shoots Beres number so this is what the hourly rate is for these various positions in the current fiscal year got almost all of them on there um well anyways um and then the average of all these this whole section for each row you have the average of the pays and accounting is really weird because pretty much every town outsources their accounting work and very few I think three towns had an amount make that Five Five Towns had an amount so this one's kind of a strange one but these are the averages of the number across all the towns and then for all the towns I have the highest and the lowest rate that any Town pays and I take those out of the average calculation to get this number to kind of take out the extreme on might throw the numbers a little off which really doesn't happen if you look the differences are not that great in some cases this one they are um so anyway so we got the average we got the average without the high and the low and then we have the median the one that happens the most it's the one in the direct middle excuse me which I think when we did this the last time we thought was a better measure I don't think we did did we because we went I thought we did M it was Melody's IDE I don't remember yeah I know we voted what what was recommended to town meeting was the average okay last time I not to say that it needs to stay that way if you guys want to change it that's well we'll have to see how much we have to change by the way these these in yellow are currently in negotiation or these two are in negotiations right and then this one this one was recently changed I believe these are higher now yes that rate when well it's not the starting so it's um so he's he's gone up steps so he's getting paid 2543 I think now in the current fa yeah okay so that's the right number to use okay so so now we can you know so now you can see the analysis how we compare it to average how we compare to medium and how we compare to the adjusted average which like I said earlier doesn't seem to be a and so a number of years ago we we worked on our um uh Financial team and bumped them up a couple of years ago wasn't that um well yeah I mean we've done this all of them that year yeah that's right in my time on the Personnel Board this would be the third time we're doing this type of analysis and there was a period when we did strictly mostly Financial but the last first time right that's the first time and then the last time we I know we did the librarian I think we did a much different mix which I can pull up if you want to see it sure I think you did just about everybody that's on the list not the department heads but everybody one and it's I'm take this one we'll see yeah we had a lot of positions that we didn't like we looks like we never fixed that one Assessor's clerk I know the treasurer was one of them yep yep town clerk was one the librarian the librarian was the biggest that I recall and the assessor we have address because well we did address at that time because Kevin was still here when we did that round that's right this is what we did oh that yep I think this is the one where we did it and we calculated how much that increase would be if we increased all these salaries and these were our these were our proposed so all these positions we adjusted yeah and not by a small amount no but you see it's mostly the people the Departments that weren't in that adjustment the police the highway fire the fire chief but I know that's a contract well the fire tees not I mean that those are contracts right but that needs to be done too yes is that is the police chief and the fire chief's um negotiation and you know and right now we're doing the police department well you know in my mind when we do these the scope of the project is really the people that aren't represented in negotiations but I mean I know Becky you want me to add them and that no problem I added them but you know when we have those negotiations we do the analysis at that point but because we can do we can look at different metrics because every position has different types of metrics is it overtime paying you know is it a full is it a position has a lot of parttime versus full anyways so anyway so you're all set with this right y I remember it come a long way yeah I need to come a long way give this there we go so submitted for your review everyone from the account to the treasurer yeah it seems like we've got the ones in red those look like the ones that are really off yes that's why Mark oh yeah good thank you for mentioning that they're more than 5% off from the median which is maybe not the best thing I should have done um what would you so what would be a good criteria for determining which ones we should be looking at because I can calculate you know the percentage difference between the average and what we're actually paying to somebody I guess the other the other problem I see um the police the one sample comparison that they were using was Irving and Irving didn't Supply any numbers this year I know all right I know I was so surprised by that huh um does that look right 20 yeah that's 23% difference that and that's an anomaly wow that's really nice to see that actually but that's also because they're that's often um farmed out isn't it they don't they're using consultants for their accountant isn't that what that is H fog has a program where they have accountants that come out for a day and their benefits are and then furog charges you and their benefits are included in that hourly rate oh okay but that skews hours quite a bit but that's what people they have to pay and most uh most of the part-timers like in our town they don't have benefits so it is an even comparison yeah you know it's the cost of that employee if we had to go to furog we'd have to pay $65 an hour so what are what are the percent yeah what are you putting in there those percents what is that this this so this is the difference between the average and their this is six six% higher than that so 6% of that would be a120 it's about a do yeah 6.3% so this rate is 6.3% lower than the average think that the admin secretary well that was last year's rate right this is the rate yeah these are all rates that were reported I assume they're what they're getting paid this year no because well the admin secretary is making was making $22 an hour so that makes me nervous um let's let's take a look pretty sure she was if I I could be wrong find out okay which group would she be in I should look on she might be in with the uh select board yeah it is hard to sometimes find things on this yes here we go so who are we talking about again uh secretary in shsy sh is not even on this list not on there oh so that wasn't this year's rate admin secretary I don't well I got it from somewhere oh you know what I got it from you back here I think I emailed you for it H did I give you the wrong number I think that's where I got it but my memory is not so good so um yeah I don't see any other places where it could be yeah it it's okay because the the range is 1849 to 22 she was close to the top so all right so this number is too high and this numbers just flat out wrong yeah the what is it oh wait wrong one sorry yeah you want to go right no well there that one make sure I didn't make any changes yeah because she was making is that F by 23 yeah I think we just it's fine if we leave it because it's in the range and the position is currently unfilled so you think this one's not a problem yeah the um admin secretary Gena resigned about a week and a half ago I mean her last day was last week well no that's too bad yeah I heard about another one today and Jackie Mandan oh I saw that yeah so that'll be a shakeup yeah so we gotta so we know the account is really yeah it's gonna be a big shakeup um we are lucky to have somebody go that long so um we don't we're not interested in the accountant situation right because we know that it's Apple star oranges yeah and she's very happy and shots very and we yeah we were lucky to hold on to her because Gabe was trying to get her in to stay in Orange but Gabe's retired from Orange so I'm glad she W she retired too huh she fully retired wow and well Gail is too but she works for shoes yeah that's a position that maybe open it some point but not yet she's been Fab like her job so that's good so that's awesome what be open no that it's awesome that she's still here oh yeah yes so do we have a column of what the salaries would be with our our formula the what do you call it the cola the our Cola all right well that's a good question um I'm glad you asked I'm glad you you're glad I was prepare for that question I'm sure you were so here's the analysis that we did um for this year we had inflation inflation inflation Max Max and then within the range and we ended up with this rate so looking ahead to fiscal 26 right I I took this number and this number for the the last two years and then in the lowest possible situation if inflation's less than one the rate would be two 32 if the rate is over four if inflation is over 4% the highest the pay could be is 3.32 ironically the same as this year's because you'd have a four and a four and one7 um or more likely you're going to have inflation somewhere in the middle and the pay rise could be anywhere from Two and a Half to 3% is what I'm thinking for fiscal 2023 so yeah not 23 I'm yes 26 I don't want to go backwards I'd like to go backwards if I could where are we yes so I don't know if you want to see these numbers inflated for say two and a half percent or 3% and compare those numbers well how about for the cola it's the cola for this year will be 3.25 yes so increase it for the 3.25 good point yeah oh you're doing 3 three 32 I thought it was 32 32 it is 3.32 okay so this budget April that's why I wanted to be that number right there yes there it is um okay so that we we have to but this doesn't include any of the contract employees so that one would be that's looking better right now all the contracted employees get the same increase for three point no that's not true it's what um the police chief's contract goes up 5% this year deal so maybe we're not as far off as we think so how much is this cost want me to make this calculation based on the new number then right what new number the the um inflated number yeah it what what the 3.32% yes you love this stuff don't you uh you know April it was just it was snck and nature it's just what we did in finance this is the way we communicated I know all right so you still got you know now there you go just want to check one yeah yeah what's that column what is that column thank you thank you oh I'm sorry let me yeah let me label it let me fix this adjusted so um shurg [Music] um um salary difference yeah I like it shoot as a berry salary variance no salary percentage difference percentage difference from the average from average yeah okay what's that and so with the increase it's still that much of a percent oh yeah comes yeah um how could the accountant be right it's under so I put I should put negative signs on these but even still like a three uh like a dollar difference or well let's check this one right right let me just bracket this yeah that's not right oh it's because it's negative because I put the negative sign sign on it all right now I'm doing too much yeah it's getting confusing here uh I'm with it so far but it's like 5% not 20% it's like 5 perc difference okay let me do it again then so all right so let me do this Becky so I'm G to take what's in this column the average and I'm going to subtract what's in this spot and then I'm going to divide it by what's in that spot oh sure right so e45 minus c45 so e45 minus c45 divided by e45 ah I see because I kept look I should have been looking at the average I was looking at shoots vares 1987 thank you George no that's okay and so if I take this multiply it times 1.03 32 that's oh no I'm taking the wrong thing it's I'm glad Becca you speak this language too it is a little confusing because this times 1.24 okay all right that works yeah then George tell me again what 1.24 is what does that represent I've lost I just want to put this in here yeah yeah hey I can explain that what he's doing is he's taking the whole hour he's multiplying it and adding it at the same he's multiplying it by the percentage of the three three um but he's adding so he's adding and multiplying at the same time it's like one and a half percent so when you do that to a to a pay scale or an hourly rate you multiply it by one and a half rather than taking it and doing a half and then adding the whole so it's just a a quicker way to do the adops shortcut yeah yeah so exactly essentially what I'm doing is I'm taking the percentage difference between what shutesbury will be paying next year versus what the average is for this year but that it's a little apples and orange but it gives us an idea yeah yeah so you you can tell who's really way off and which ones are reasonable and and the positive ones are the ones that are better yeah thank God we don't need have to talk too much about those yeah and David bir just said that the Assessor's clerk was low s we knew that too didn't we Becky we knew that yeah yeah the Assessor's clerk um and but part of the the issue is they're co-mingling assistants and clerks um but basically Leslie's acting more as an assistant at this point anyway she has a lot of responsibility she does that yes from what I can tell she's earning her pay and it's is competitive with in terms of what she's doing with a lot of the other towns so anyways that's those are the numbers so so you're when you highlighted something in red you were looking at anything that's 5% or more off earlier that's the calculation I did relative to the median what this is doing is just showing you what the percentages are relative to the average okay these two so you know which ones do we want to talk about obviously we don't I don't think we need to talk about this one no I think that's good the custodian is in [Music] line but then we get to the equipment operator and that's getting a little more one one thing I will say too in the context of I'm sure you're probably all thinking it in the context of the cola that we've been doing for the last three years and the alignment study which we thought we had aligned to With The Changes we made three years ago and now we find ourselves lagging one of the reasons we're lagging right is because we take a three-year rolling average and we had high inflation in the last two to three years and there's a lag here because they're still going to get employees are still going to get the benefit of one year at 4% and next year's pay increase and my big question is I'm wondering what the other towns are proposing for pay increases for fy2 are they going to be higher than this or equal to this or that right is is the three-year rolling average working you know High inflationary period it lags Y and you're going to fall behind but you know but didn't we get behind because of the low inflation period say that again Becky here yeah I'm saying the fact we had that 1.75 year yeah that really hurt people yeah yep that's that's that's true and now there's and now catchup time came and it's good for another year I I don't know you know what had weat yeah I mean should we go back to just doing one year at a time they would have got 6.59 we would have capped it at four they would have got 552 we' cap it yeah they would have got less than one we would have brought them up to one or two to me one seems like too low that's rid I can't imagine not giving anything less than two right you know right see I think the problem with the rolling average is when inflation hits it hits then you know the rolling and and it takes a few years for our pay scale to count up and I think that's the problem in it makes sense in one level but I think in reality it it lags and hurts people yeah but on the other hand when it's not lagging and going ahead then it's you know beneficial it's not responsive to the current times yeah and that inflation was that really hit hard people are still complaining about it you know I know continued at the where at the purse the household purse is still subject to it and then in all the budgets you know you have the highway superintendent reporting A1 thousand piece of equipment going to 5,000 in five you know three years it's right Steve talking about how much it cost to repair the tractor I mean what it cost the last time you did it it was like three times as much yeah and food has G up food has but we don't start y so I I don't know you know that's that's the logic here let me go back to um unless you had questions there well I was wondering what if we just tied it to the inflation rate so these would be your annual inflation numbers based on the index we use year to year so they would have got 2% well of course we hadn't implemented at this point but going back those years 2% to and a quarter we would have had to do I don't know what we would do in a year like that no but I think we have to have guard rails H there's the word move them when it's convenient that's right so they're 8.2% now that so the the guard rails could be 2% and four or four and a half percent I mean May that might yeah two 4% range based on what inflation is but but with some caveat if if inflation really goes High then we do have to change those guard rails you know if if inflation is like 6 78% which maybe it won't happen well that's the point of the alignment study right I guess that's the that's the fixer it realigns us when we if there is a lag but you know as long as we can justify it I don't want to just justifi by the fact that our people aren't paid the average but in my mind reconciling what we've been doing to where we are relative to the other towns this is the answer is using a rolling average over four years is there's been a lag how this will work going forward well we're just implementing the 3.32 which is the highest that we've done at at all so I mean I know we're including it in what we're looking at but it's not includ did you include that in the FY 25 column you did right yeah that's what this is 3.32 so and remember this average is current year this average these averages are going to go up right and we don't know what what metrics people are using we always assume two and a half but we don't it's GNA be different everywhere yeah the average is FY 24 right they're FY 24 figures yes yes current year salaries based on the wage and salary survey that's too bad that that isn't one of the things that they report is is you know how how a rais is determined you know that is it cost of you know how is how are colas determined well it sounds like there would be a Melissa broke up a little bit could you say it again I'm sorry yeah can you hear me now you hear me okay yes okay maybe we should do a little study and call the different towns and ask them how they do handle theirs and see if ours does line up at least percentage wise or um format wise with them just a few PES you know just as a I know check in to see what's going on that's a good idea I know when I worked in business it was always they looked at the current years's inflation they didn't do a rolling average they just looked at where it is now and of course then they justify reasons why you know didn't have to go the whole distance but generally speaking I think the three-year rolling average is maybe not such a good way to go I think your idea April going year to year and just having guard rails at top and bottom I love that name yes but I don't know what the the numbers that you're getting with the three-year rolling average are you know they're they're within an acceptable range nobody if we had gone to town meeting with a 6.59% I think it would have been um might not have been appreciated well again that was the point of a guard rail you know it could never be lower than two and never higher than four right but then what happened to the employees the inflation rate was 6.59 and they got a 2.42 raise right and and it got made up somewhat the next year but it didn't get made up in the year and made up over two years yeah that's that is except they never got up to four that guard rail I was really surprised that this number was as low as it was and but it's black and white yeah one 121 to 118 goes up by 1.97% wow now does that Cola calculation include food and gasoline I can't remember I I know we looked at its makeup originally we'd have to dig deep and by the way I'm sorry I'm sorry I do remember them um something in the news where they did remove food and gas from some sort of calculation but I'm not sure if it was this one right that's that's the question I don't know the specifics about this one but that is the right question to ask I agree um they do yeah this one probably includes everything and and I was gonna say by the way this these are the options um Peg you asked in our last meeting what the options were for CPU indexes and which ones were the best to use and we're using the the New England one so we're using I should have highlighted we're using this one there's that 112 2182 right there and that's this one right here so this is the one we're using and it's down here Connecticut Maine Massachusetts basically New England yeah so anyway so back up to here I mean part of me says we should probably STI with this method for another year or two to get the full ramp up of the inflation that goes that one last 4% so I was thinking I was thinking we could definitely do this analysis I'd be happy to do this again next year yeah why don't we make a note of it before we make a change to the Cola in the context of the cola conversation I'm thinking we should do this one more time do this again next year and if we still don't like the results and we still see a lag then maybe we can talk about the one year yeah I think I think that's I think that's reasonable so if you had I think the whole experience if the 2021 had had a guard rail of 2% it's only a quarter percent difference so it really wouldn't have had an impact is that the year you said the next 21 oh right right well you know we would have given him a slightly better increase so but I think there was also a psychological component to that that PE people must have felt you know under 2% probably it probably did not feel great was that the year we gave a bonus did we give a one lump a lump F payment to all employees wow I don't remember that was that before my time I think we put it in the budget for one of the years oh no it ended up being $50 oh we ended up giving out the gift cards for big say that Melissa say that again we ended up giving out gift cards to each person um as a as a a way to help ease that and we did Big Wide gift first it was a thank you too for um people's service during covid right okay that's what I was thinking of yeah and it we did we ended up not doing that at all and a lot of some towns did the just police and fire um got big bonuses and I know I heard from our police in fire that I mean that um they felt unappreciated when shuberry didn't do that well I agree with George I think we should try this one more year and at the end of that time period you know reflect on it and look at the numbers and reflect on where are we going from here I agree the and that whole conversation has to go back to the select board and finance committee too right oh that's makes it fun personel board call yes it definitely but if we're if we are using this if we're not changing the method we don't have to do that well they have appr no if we change the call method we're going to need we're going to need Buy in from everybody all three select board Finance committe if we're not making that change we don't have to do that y right good the question is do we want to make any other changes any do we need feel the need for any modifications I keep looking at the fire chief but that one we can't touch that because it's a um yeah these two are negotiation so these two are out and fire chief is contract and he's going to renew his contract next year I hope I mean that and we can look at that again is that true so the fire chief's going to get an analysis so the fire chief is out of the scope then yeah very much so till next year correct yeah he gets a new contract starting FY 26 I think you know and he's fairely new I mean he negotiated this price what a year ago yeah 18 months ago he yeah and you have to I don't know I don't know we're going to let the fire chief definitely comes up next year then yep yeah and the police chief come up next year okay so the the ones that seem to pop out uh Cesar's clerk uh maybe not it counted somewhat but the treasure some with the yes over double digits yeah I think the treasurer is you know at this point I I think the real pressure is the Assessor's Clerk and I think the accountant is is Happy the treasure we've made a couple adjustments the we made at least one adjustment with in between the alignment um is there anything below treasure that's the the bottom line yes okay just footnotes so I I agree the Assessor's clerk needs to be aligned I think she does what Melissa Melissa agreed I said I agree I think that that the C report needs to be adjusted so where do we put how about going up to the average is that but we did last time yeah $6 an hour wow wow yeah I mean look at the difference okay I that shouldn't sync the ship though uh can afford that well I mean what do we have to get Buy in from the fincom do or do we just put it on the budget like and just tell the pcom we made that adjustment we we should make a note to tell them and that Assessor's budget is kind of in uh I talked anyway with um we're kind of in flux in that budget right now so it's flexible I mean that can be included in the budget without making an additional you know adding to the Assessor's budget at this point in time oh right do you think we have to come the whole way to the average though I'm just saying that's what we did before yeah yeah I think we should you know when you think about it the average in Franklin County when you live right next County and hamton County sold okay the those areas is there a reason what is the reason we're not looking at the accountant the accountant most of the towns Outsource it and so we have a very small sample size okay and a very vared sample size look at these two differences and then even down there's a $16 difference between the high and the low wow yeah oh there's there's somebody on there was at 6270 look at this yeah yeah that person has to be doing other things regardless of what the report says they're running everything do we have any any idea how much these raises how what this gonna how much is this going to cost yeah so I can do that I can do that calculation I'll do it right here in the librarian column so um we're talking an increase $563 I believe it was well actually $593 yeah and how many hours a week does she work um it varies between 12 and 22 approximately got a lot of numbers behind the yeah that's all right that's just rounding when I when I converted it to a yeah so um what so let's say what what's the halfway point 18 let's pick 18 that's your impact on your book it's basically 18 hours times 52 weeks and the difference is $593 $6 an hour wait a second what did I do wrong here I don't know no you did 593 yeah 593 times 15 18 no that's right it's a big impact that's huge so it's a big impact almost a $6 doll increase right and six on an annual basis would be $112,000 and this is a little less than half well and you look at the context of she's been earning for a long time much less so this is justment responsibilities have changed yes is very true I mean that's that's a big so how would you do this Becky would you move her up to scale I mean is there a place up the scale that'll get us close to this gotta get my scale I think words we may have to change the job description well it has changed she's taken on more responsibilities correct yeah so she's more of a less of a clerk and more of an assistant M so any idea how much all of the the cola increase is going to cross across the board or that's harder to I did estimate the cola increase across the board um no whoops no I I I've got it here um I don't have it here H it should be in my my reasons I'm going to get it for you um like we're looking at your closet yeah well this is the Personnel stuff um okay so on the FY 2024 chart i max out at 2346 oh I'm sorry this is the 2023 chart let me get the other chart um salary increase for next year do you see it on here $27,000 is what the cola is going to cost us and that's Cola Plus what's in contract so that was the total increase in salaries so this will bring it up to closer to 30,000 32 32 though some of her some of her Cola increase was probably included in that figure that's a good point no that's absolutely good point I thought of that earlier no that that's a really important point just getting it so 66 cents times 18 * 52 the increase would have been $617 wow so so it's almost a $5,000 almost $5,000 increase yes exactly that number right there that should oh she totally deserves that $4,900 is the additional increase over what she so we're gonna have okay so just to get this impacts all negotiations you know like with the police and because that rate that rate that's showing up with the assess assistance is higher than the police average and I think a lot of that has to do with the Irving being missing but it might I also think that if we're if we're bringing one up to average why aren't we bringing them all up to average I mean this one clearly of all of them is the most egregious yes but you know they're all not great so do we really have to go whole distance and yeah that's a big number there if we go too high it creates inconsistencies with other departments which is another way to look at this but that's where yeah sorry George no and I just going to finish my thought that's where the classification study comes to which is more work but it's almost done we just got to get a to skip her other job you know we're but we are coming to uh budget time I mean that the clock is ticking but if we were to do nothing but realign the assessors clerk everybody and everything else is will be sorted out in contracts at this point most everybody else The Librarian Is yeah yeah um it appears CL could a little well I mean anybody in negative a little something but it's you know it's magnitude this one the magnitude is just tremendous can't be ignored and this one a little I you know I kind of think that you know and we don't have to close the gap I don't think we need to close the gap but I do think we need to make good and you know maybe next year we do another alignment study we we give this a bump this year we give it another bump next year yep and spread it out a little bit bring it up slowly work it into the budget make it something that's acceptable this year I mean if we if we added if we increased a handful of these we could keep the whole increase in alignment adjustments below four4 or $5,000 that's an easy sell on top of this budget in light of all the other stuff that's going on so so rather than just doing it all this one this year take it$ up instead of six go halfway or is that what yeah what does halfway look like George like 25 500ish right yes 2808 2,800 and then if we did a little something for the treasurer unless I know Becky you were thinking maybe we don't need to well I think I I think we should be consistent in application of the thing and I should not just think about all the information I know personally right Purge your brain yeah think about don't think about the employee the actual person but the are you thinking about the performance review you would give this person I mean no no no no not at all I'm all right it's not that it's just I know what I know some of what he's accepted for pay in other places yeah that's that shouldn't have anything to do with the decisions and even with us I mean to some extent you know if I'm working in private business if I'm working in an HR department I'm going this is wonderful all these people are willing to do the job for so much less yeah until they leave yeah that's and and we're in an environment where many of these positions are not easy with you know we just lost the administ you know the admin secretary yeah she wasn't here for very long was she a year and a half but she went to a full-time job um it was because of more pay primarily yeah yeah she saw the writing and she had a long commute oh I didn't know that no it U Deerfield not that bad not too bad so the treasurer is $4 below average oh actually let me let me redo that $342 after the pay increase below average so it's not a tremendous amount of money I mean annually how many hours a week does he work he works like 25 potentially does he get benefits he could could he yes he does that'd be a pretty big joke but we again go do the same thing go halfway I agree I think halfway halfway and then you know catching up of course next year it'll be a little more than halfway but I that just makes to me that makes sense yeah I I agree so what do we say 1.7 all right so what any others that's not right 1.7 right yes computer wasn't so pay increase like this all right so that adds so that doesn't change the total so we're still around $32,000 for increase um where for a total increase for these two is 5,000 what I haven't calculated though is the piece you talked about earlier that is what would their increase be at 3.32 we need to subtract that out yeah to get the true increase so I'll make that calculation at some point and when I put that number in here you know call it like this then we'll get a lower number and I can do it now if you if you want to wait no I think we I I think I think we get the idea yeah it's it's going to impact somewhat not a huge amount and we' we'd be okay whatever that is because we know for one it's 617 for the other one it's probably even higher so we know we're probably subtracting about 4 $1,400 out yeah so it's going to be somewhere between 3500 4,000 Becky I can do the final calculation and get it to you for the budget excellent um so these BFS with the increases would have to go to the select board yeah how about the finc come um I guess I guess Ryan's impacts his line item so it would have to yeah oh well it's going to show up in the budget we're trying to balance the budget as it is right now and we got to make sure these are in there I think the fincom is going to want to know yeah but I think as Becky Becky said earlier that the assessor this won't impact the bottom line of the Assessor's budget because we're we're in that in between year I confirmed with David that he'll for the next year he again will take um the lower amount um but in the following year he will U not be doing rrg and then we'll be negotiating with him to do more um you know spend more um increase his hours in SHO spare and at that point lesie would probably be able to cut back about you know some smaller amount of hours uh to balance that but they'll it'll be a budget potential impact next year I would assume but we're okay for this year so is there anything else as far as salary alignment that we need to be talking about are we done with that have we completed what we need to do on this yeah I think I mean right this one was big and that one was big this one we know why it's off and and we're okay with it and these are Under negotiation these are the will be under Fire Chief yes okay and and a recent hire too you know it seems this is what he settled for we know he's got an opportunity to reevaluate and discuss next year yeah and we also decided the other thing we decided today was we're going to do another uh alignment study next year and for the sole purpose uh well for this purpose but also for the purpose of analyzing our Cola increases the sea um y we're giving it one more chance yeah one more year right one more year minutes we're giving it one more chance one more chance and I like doing it because it looks really sophisticated it looks you know I mean that look serious who could argue with that it does it does but it may not be the right way no it I I I tend to think it's not the right way I think it's could be close it's a lot better than beating each other up with the sled I missed that we could do it over dinner couldn't we maybe drinks maybe drinks drinks I think we could do it at the AC yeah I I do not miss the good all days that is for sure that we would all it's like there was a script so you're gonna say this you're gonna say this you're and in this corner and in this corner there was no science to it like there was no scientific method to it this at least has a scientific method it was raw politics yeah wear each other down okay so can we close this up yes yes and George thank you very much we doing welcome deeply appreciated thank you I I know you I know you all do appreciate it so I don't know how to get this thing so I can release the screen oh here we go looking in the wrong place there you are there we are okay moving on uh we talked about the salary alignment and I think we had a really good discussion on that and we know where we're going in the future and where we are now so and we'll remember that we will remember that okay so just a follow up on that Peg for the um do we want the Personnel Board to present the one that we're bringing forward the cessor clerk will you guys should we try to do that at the select board meeting meeting this on the 26 on Tuesday I can still add it to the agenda yeah can somebody do that I cannot be there that's this coming Tuesday correct yeah I do that um I'm starting this is TMI but I'm having a colonoscopy but that's in the morning so I should be okay oh no you might not you'll be fine I'll probably be fine Melissa presenting and I can we'll have all the info I can back you up yeah as long as you have all the info in case we have to yeah I can do it in case you're not doing well April you know okay but these days they use they use propal and you bounce out of it within a half an hour I know you're on your feet I know this is not my this is not my first rodeo so to speak yeah but you've had it done since the old days right you know because now so much quicker right me too they start using that George uh probably within the last 10 years maybe 10 years ago they switched from um benol and vered and I think you know all this of course you know this how do I know this I know I I think I'm well known by if Marty's there I don't worry that's all yeah that's what a lot of people tell me then you shouldn't because she is very confident oh yes and great bedside Manor too oh she the best she's good it's yeah it's it's not it's just the prep the day before so I right well you'll be above you'll be beyond that you might be no I I should be fine you know I just can't do it it would be interesting yeah that's okay Becky and I can certainly handle it all right sounds good please excuse April she's leaving the room for the third time tonight no no no I'll be empty by then no I'll be done after that be so clean oh God okay oh The Human Condition yes um the the land use clerk position we're on uh item three um we are still just holding Carrie uh just stabilizing the concom Carrie is holding the position together so we're not rushing into that right now okay so search hasn't started what would you like me to say in the minutes um no the search we put out advertising before we have things posted we've had a couple responses a few months ago um but with all the changes in at concom Carrie's um finally actually doing what's in her job description um which um she hadn't had the opportunity to do for a couple year you know for a so she we have stability at the moment and um and I'm gonna talk more with Carrie about her future plans but I think I talked to Beth and she's good just keeping it stable for a little bit um you know Beth the new chair is working well with Carrie and um we'll get we'll get serious about that in a month or two but right now it's um can I ask Carrie last name say it again Marshall we'll start the process by the end of the FIS year yeah well the process we'll uh resume the process yes okay good we've been we did we were in process and then well no that's a good point that's a real good point yeah heard her transition plans became less firm our need for stability became bigger so at the moment we're just I think we're good okay I got it yeah we conom where the transition is right yeah and the conservation agent position it has not been brought up it could be brought up as part of the next transition at the moment they're busy trying to just get the fee schedule um voted in and then back to the select board and okay so that's on hold yeah they haven't yeah concom dropped that a year Miriam dropped that a year ago okay alrighty then we're moving so uh do you have all that for the minutes George yeah I'm just I just wrote L use clerk position posted um received a few responses search is on hold due to changes in concom and we resume the process by the end of fiscal year okay that sound right yep sounds good sounds good um the cemetery groundskeeper commissioner positions what's happening with those um Walter said he's making additional changes to the job description he didn't mention he's bringing them back to us um I should ask him to because the select board would have to vote him again but he actually has a solid candidate oh very excited I have no idea the name but they're in uh Cemetery commission is in discussion with someone and then the second thing um that indirectly affects the Personnel Board Walter we need to put a Warren article uh like we similar to The Board of Health Warren article that states that as an elected member to a committee the person is also working for the town um the rest of the cemetery commission learning that Walter has been repairing um lawn equipment and doing a lot of prep work you know putting in a lot of hours of Labor and never asking for compensation uh prior to this point wants him wants to be able to compensate him um the one thing I am noting is they haven't asked for money um so I have to go back to them and make sure I mean we have some money in the cemetery um grounds keeper line and it's never been used up so I think the addition of Walter to that um we'll have to monitor the first year and see if we need more funds there but um that just requires a warrant article um and then Walter would be cons unless you want to do a an additional maintenance Cemetery maintenance person job description but I don't know if we have to well I mean at this point in the budget game we don't have to I'm inclined not to yeah I think we can put that on for next year and get that done but he still can get paid out of the groundskeeper line because a lot of the work um the groundskeeper job description includes maintenance of equipment so he can fall under that what's Walter's title in all of this he's been chair of the cemetery commission got it for about 20 years or more that's it no that's perfect that's what I want to put okay so I think that we're pretty much caught up except for the the same the Personnel handbook and Po and the classification schedules but those sort of get second second shrift second shift second shift or second shift gonna nail them we're gonna nail them sometime soon yes so update classifications C schedules personnal handbook policy and procedures manual and status of result of Select board employee contract negotiations Becky can you give us an update on that uh there's no update so I'll just leave it in future business unless Melissa wants to give an update I don't I think we don't have one we don't really have an update Union has started and the other ones have started and that's it that's the update all right I'll leave it it's it's future business okay the good news is the police Union on negotiation we actually had a meeting and we have another one scheduled for is it um T um it's early next next Thursday we have another Union negotiation and the school Union is also in negotiations um and there's another I have another meeting with them on Monday this coming Monday yes okay would I put that in the minutes School Union um I put that in the minutes I'll just make a note yeah it's just School Union negotiations are are active really underway not underfoot underway thank God so is there anything else we need to discuss or work on tonight I think the salary alignment was huge and thanks again George yes you're welcome you're most welcome thank you happy contribute and is there anything else are we pretty much meeting date was already scheduled I think yes for the next meeting April 18th April 18th what what would you like to do in May ah might as well get ahead of it right oh on the 18th I'm not gonna be here on the 18th well may no what how you're not gonna be here on April 18th no a I cannot be here on the 18th I'll be not here you want to change uh I would have to be for me if to make it it would have to be a week earlier would we be ready a week earlier on the 11th can people make it on the 11th which would be a Thursday I'm check my calendar too hold on I can make the 11th I'm not available on the 11th 25th that's that's open it's that open it's um it's two days before a couple days before meeting oh there's that you'll be I'm sorry what you'll be busy you might be busy too how be busy two days before town meeting we have to have the budget them before then don't we yeah but we'll be hopefully Printing and setting up stuff yeah and making last minute checks and slapping a label over the one bad [Laughter] number so how about uh the 2nd of May I already have a meeting that night no I don't I have the first have a meeting with this may 1 was assessors right right are we gonna have a trifecta it could be another one well actually fincom will not be meeting on the 30th that's right okay okay it's only a defect or whatever so the next meeting is May 1 I thought it was May second second second sorry yeah sorry May 2nd we doing is it Tuesday May 2nd is a Thursday a Thursday okay that April 2nd is a Tuesday if anybody I can't I won't be here on the second either you guys should just go ahead and do because they we'll go back to the 16th go back to the 18 18th of April but we're trying to pick a day in May trying to pick a day in April we haven't figured April second because we were hitting the 25th the 11th doesn't work well go back to the 18th and give Peg a break okay go for the 18 sure you okay with that okay all right Melissa you're you can make it that day yeah the 18th is fine it was the 11th that was not right perfect I'll send you I'll send you the minutes the next day good yeah I'll send you the minutes so that you know what we did okay thank you very much you can always zoom in if you want to pay that's true it depends on where I am at the time if you have if I have access and if you're not taking babysit sitting four or five grandchildren true well they might they might think it's cool to see Grandma on zo we'd love to see them how old are these kids well the older ones would be fine I don't think the one and a half year old or the uh the four-year-old or the three-year-old would be very impressed I don't think so no a but I've also got a 17y old and a 15y old and a they could join the committee yeah so how about your May dates the May dates would be um let's see 17th of May would be the I think 16 I think it's May 16 16 16 oh yeah you're right right the 16th I could do that yeah the 17th is my anniversary oh we ran didn't we have that problem last year we had a conversation about how long we were all married yes we did we did have that conversation I win I win you 50 54 years this year give it wow that's nuts that's great that's a long time how long will it be for you April huh 42 43 I was married in 81 so oh you're year ahead of me yeah both a year yeah I was 82 I got married in 1980 wow oh my God so who got married at the amoris Women's Club just just random just you just you just me because that was a popular spot back in the day my friend of M got there I was at a wedding there once yes okay theb I guess I'm the Newbie at 27 years baby at your age I was not married 27 years well I married my prom date so that helps that number okay I think we're adjourned all those in favor of adjournment Peg Ross Ross I AR make peace O'Neal I and Stein I okay Stein all right adios bye everybody have a great one bye good night everybody night night good night Peg