##VIDEO ID:LsSCwUIb5g0## let's see that that would be 11:06 no yeah okay thanks for taking the minutes Jeff no problem one one thing just to start since I'm an associate member I think John you you need to uh you need to activate me um as a member for this meeting okay and and for for these two cases okay um so you actually have to do that and I have to write it in the minutes that you did it okay all right uh I propose that we um activate Jeff as he's an alternate member um to be a sitting member for both the case at 17 Leverett Road and the second case 641 yeah a 640 wend Road um Russ Greco that's just something that we're here to talk about today but the case that we're here to take a vote on is the site plan review of the accessory apartment at um 17 Leverett Road um Zenia Stetson is here representing the owners um she is the uh contractor for that project if we have any questions um we all uh had a chance to walk through the property um John and I one day and Jeff uh couldn't make it that day went on his own um I didn't have any problem with what I saw there it looks like it totally conforms to zoning from what I can see from their um site plans uh it conforms to the set backs um I did query the other boards in town um the select board responded that they had no comment and no objection um concom had already seen this project uh the Board of Health had questions about the septic design whether it would accommodate the number of bedrooms and they went and searched through their records and found that indeed it would um so they signed off the fire chief had no plans of the smoke detectors and that those plans were provided and he got back to me that he was happy with that um I don't think that there are any objections from any of the other boards then um John and I didn't see any objections when we were at the site um do we want to uh discuss this any further or should we put it to a vote well um um yes we do um so uh has there been a um an application filed I I'm looking through these materials I don't see our site plan review application and along with the application um there needs to be a fee has that that's all happened yes that exists someplace okay yep okay and usually before before we vote on a site plan review we um we ask the applicant to uh to just briefly present their present their project okay and and and then we also have a couple other things to think about because the state recently uh changed the zoning act uh relative to accessory Apartments so those changes will affect our local bylaw in 180 days from when they were enacted last month that's February 2nd I think yeah somewhere in 180 days from then um we have to all comply with what the state has done so we should have some uh discussion about that yeah that I thought we might well as part of this um because I don't it won't affect this application well um it um no our our bylaw remains in effect until that 180 days has passed and then the state law supersedes it um our the state law allows up to 900 um square feet of living area in an accessory apartment our bylaw limits it to 800 I don't I don't know if they meet the 800 or not um yeah it's under 800 okay so so that really doesn't matter if they wanted to expand the thing in the future to up to 900 they'd be able to they'd be able to propose that um they also provided an notorized um letter stating that they are the primary occupants of the property and um you know that goes away with the state the new state bylaw as well but um for the time being that's one of our requirements right for for the time being yep so I I would just um I give the applicant just an opportunity to toh to make a very brief presentation uh before we vote that sounds great are you able to do that Zenia if she unmutes maybe she could sure um I'm Zenia statson and I uh proposing to build an accessory apartment inside an addition at 17 lever Road in shutesbury um I'm not really sure what what else you need I believe everything that you might need to know is already in the plans that I provided a few weeks ago yeah okay I I have one question um was a little confusing from one of these um drawings how much Frontage does that entire lot have now it looks like it's made up of two two lots um and added together that's the lot we're talking about how much Frontage is there I don't know offhand what the frontage is okay all right well I'm I'm looking at this diagram right here and I it it's difficult to tell from this whether there is 209 feet of Frontage or 284 it's 284 because they own both those lots okay that's what I thought so good you're all set with Frontage yeah any other questions yeah yeah that that makes the lot conforming um because it's got more than 90,000 ft and it's got more than 250 ft of Frontage so it's a conforming lot so we don't have to get get into those issues that we always get into at the lake um this is not the not the case here so that's good great any other questions I I just had a I had a comment on um one of the pages in here it talks about the front setback and it it appears as though the the area under consideration that's being worked on actually meets the front setback um was that was that y'all's conclusion because um front set back in the Town Center is 20 ft and it appears that the plane of of of the house where the work is being done is actually more than 20 ft back from the road right away is that the applicant's understanding too yes we have not changed the setback in the front okay remember there was a garage there previously and they they held that setback line yeah so this just extends that that previous line of the front faide to the east yep yeah great anything else John you all set I'm good yeah especially having been there and seen that and talk with folks on site shall we put it to a vote yeah I I move that we approve this site plan review application uh at 17 lever Road shutesbury for applicant Zenia statson there a second I'll second that all in favor Jeff Lacy I Conn stuck I John Thompson I carries unanimously I think the final step here Jeff is that I write a letter to the um Building Commissioner um alerting him to our meeting and our result okay um what normally happens at this point after the vote is that um that I write this up because we have a we have a site plan review decision form um and it gives us the ability to condition it as well um so um the the way the way it was approved I I we didn't discuss conditions I think we we got a little ahead of ourselves we um we didn't discuss conditions but I don't think there really need to be conditions on here as long as they just build it as proposed right I didn't have but I I need to write unless somebody else wants to get into the permit writing I I need to write this up and um chair needs to sign it and and and there's actually the the the there's an appeal period of 20 days so is there on on the site on a site plan review as well yeah yeah I I I just sent you guys this form here yeah this is the checklist of of what has to happen Okay to get this thing through all right um so I I need to um I need to make sure all these things have been done and I need to render this into a written decision okay I think that um the project is is still moving forward am I correct about that Zenia did you get your um stop work order released yes okay so um we we don't there's no um particular pressure here Jeff to get this thing written up we're not we're not holding up the project all right well then I won't rush to get it done before Labor Day good but it'll it it'll be done soon it and you know this is the cap of the the in the file the last thing that usually appears in the file is the the finished permit on the top and that that says we're done all right but once I get that done and and John you sign it um I need to deposit it with the Town Clerk and it has to sit there for 20 days right she's got a calendar on that in case there's any appeal is that the point of that in case there's any appeal you know there the applicant might not like what we've done and they can appeal it or the could appeal it um and then the clerk after 20 days certifies that there have been no appeals okay and does what happens with that certification is she takes some action there does she notify the uh Building Commissioner is that how that goes well we have a form the first signature is yours the next signature is that the town clerk has received it and will be holding it for 20 days in the appeal period Then the final signature is that town clerk has held it and there have been no appeals and then it's all over that's it okay but since the work is ongoing um you know the work can just proceed and then we'll just we we'll go with that but the I mean if for some strange reason there is an appeal by some party then um that could that could cause the project to be held up pending all of that oh sure yeah okay thank you Jeff Cy I think we're done with you thank you for coming you so John do you have a copy of the um the uh actual application is it electronic or hard or it's hard the others are up at Town Hall in a folder okay um is there any way you could scan that and because some of what I need for the decision form is contained on the application form I'll do it okay I'd say I'd have our land clerk do that but I guess uh that would be me well wait a minute don't we have one no he didn't last a week oh my gosh I didn't know that I didn't nobody notified me so I finally called because I was sending emails that were going un you know not no response and um I finally called up uh Beth Wilson the other day from from the Conservation Commission to say so what's um how's your experience been with the land Clerk and she said oh I guess you didn't hear geez you know here's the problem with that position we've had some good people in it the only one that really had staying power was Linda Ava Scott right she was a resident she's invested in the town she has another town job to go with it so it was a decent overall salary yeah but since we divided it off into a job that is really part-time and doesn't have much of a salary you know the talented people move on they always do of course they do um you know which brings me back to my Charlemont example I worked for Charlemont recently as a consultant and they have a a person that's called clerk to the boards um something like that and she does six boards right fincom zba concom Board of Health and finance committee that's six boards and you know she's got plenty of work plenty of to keep her going and um so she's busy and she's paid well um and she's been around for a long time but I I think we've just created too small of a job here that we're not going to get anybody for very long no I mentioned I mentioned your your um that Charlemont job to Beth Wilson when I was talking to her and she said you know why don't we do that apparently we're looking for a clerk to the select board at this point too so why don't we just look for one person right you know I think maybe the town doesn't want to pay anybody over 20 hours a week yeah because of the benefits packages yep right but you know that consigns us to this forever yeah this isn't this isn't workable anyway do all the other boards have volunteer Clerk is that what's going on the board of health has its own it's it's internal I believe um um cat does it C Katherine Hilton um selectboard has its own I don't think fincom has one and then we've got one for the for the three land use boards so right now there are three people in chsb um doing this clerk work Beth said oh that's funny that you called me about this Nathan called me just the other day and asked me the same question so well i' I've been talking in his ear too so anyway um let's uh move on to um Russ Greco on wend road and talk about his um proposed garage so Russ reached out to me uh a couple of months ago and wondered about setbacks for an accessory a small accessory structure on his property and um we've been back and forth on email I've tried to keep you guys um posted um even the emails from Russ that came directly to me I tried to forward them on to you so everybody would know what was going on um Russ you want to tell us a little bit about um what it is that you want to do and why yeah um excuse me my voice is I've lost my voice and been sick last couple of days um so I want to place a garage a freestanding garage at the end of my driveway on the entry side of my house and uh I want to place it 15 feet from the side Lot line which was the setback the side setback when I built my house and I sided my house the the RS would change two years after that when I started my house I have a very small area to build on it's only 1.32 Acres the whole lot and on the South Side there's a Ravine and a Hemlock Forest it takes up most of the lot so I had less than half maybe a third of the lot to build on that was flat it was suitable for building so I sided my house house so that I could put a small garage up against the setback and it wouldn't crowd the house um if I'm required to move that 10 feet because um of the 25 foot setback that now exists it really changes the whole feel of the whole project there are some minor issues the major one for me is is Aesthetics because that house was designed and cited by me to create this little pocket of of yard and Garden on the back side of the house I reverse the salt box so the two-story um side of the salt box is facing west and it creates and shields that backyard area from the road so it's very quiet back there and very peaceful um moving the garage over just 10 feet you'd have to actually I can show you pictures um when and if the time arrives that you need to see them but you really need to come out and see it in person if you really want a good idea of what I'm talking about it may not I don't know what other people's impression of of my issue is um but it's very personal to me um you know I designed that site built that house um and the feel of it is very important to me and moving the garage over just 10 feet creates a very small Corridor in my mind it's less than 18 feet between the corner of the house the northwest corner of the house and the southeast corner of the garage it just changes the whole feel of of um that area there are other minor things that I listed um in the uh report or whatever you want to call it that I gave to John that I I hope he shared with you yeah um there I had planned on putting a leaving one it's a onecar garage with a little bit of area to for workspace and then attic space sufficient for some storage for stuff in New Orleans when we sell our house there um so but the the bay for the car would be on the left side so moving the garage close to the property line doesn't it doesn't it's now not in line with the driveway but it doesn't really matter it's just a short Bend into the garage um but uh we had planned on put leaving one other parking space outside to the in between the garage and the house so we could pull up close to the front entry steps which are not shown on my drawings um on the S plan which extend out from the north side of the house and next or 8 ft uh just enough room for a car to pull up right past the steps and offload people or packages whatever that as we get older you know it's important that that parking space is on the south side of the garage between the house and the garage and not on the other side of the garage which is where I'd have to put it if we move the house the garage over 10 feet to the South that's the main issue for me there you know there's some minor issues there's some stuff with solar that are minor but I mean you know they still exist because I'm using the garage um as a vehicle for solar panels I never wanted solar panels on the house for aesthetic reasons I don't like solar arrays on the ground um so this was an opportunity for me because that south side of the roof on the garage would be almost due south it would be an opportunity to put solar panels and then also um install a power wall so we could have some backup electric backup for the house because if we move back fulltime which we're planning on to shutesbury um it's an issue for us because we we need to get away in the winter a little bit um did you all read the thing I I wrote yeah well I don't need to go into all that the minor stuff right yeah so Russ um if if if you're finished I I usually the board members start asking questions after the applicant present but we're we're we're not in a hearing anyway at this point we have to um we have to get um so this is covered in our zoning at 4 . 2-2 B2 and it it specifically says non-habitable detached or attached accessory structures which this is which cannot which cannot meet the setback requirements of this subsection blah may be allowed by special permit from the CBA provided the board finds such structures to be in harmony with the residential development in zoning District not detrimental to the neighborhood this provision shall apply to both conforming and lawfully non-conforming Lots your lot is lawfully non-conforming because it's below I don't know what it has for Frontage but it's below the area 498 feet all right so it's got plenty of Frontage but it doesn't have a lot of area so it's lawfully nonconforming but this um this means we don't have to get into our usual um rigoll that we do at the lake all the time about non-conforming Lots because this section we can apply it to non-conforming Lots without going through all that um we've done any number of them over the years um it does require a special permit and mostly that's so that all the neighbors are uh made aware of what you're doing and how you may be coming closer to their property than the bylaw otherwise requires that's the purpose of the special permit but we have to get a special permit application we have to get the fee required we have to um hold a public hearing which is noticed to all the parties in interest around you um get through the public hearing and then um and then we make a decision after that there there's no way around that process so all these arguments and and I I'll just say anecdotally um we we haven't been very strict about um the word cannot cannot meet um often the reasons are similar to the ones that you've outlined you know the Aesthetics the livability uh where the existing structures are what makes sense on a lot things like that we've taken those in into account um and and we've granted any number of these over over the years biggest consideration that the board has is What is your neighbor think right is there a neighbor property this morning I know them all they're all fine with it okay especially the the Maya butter to the north whose property line that is also I've had Tyler over I walked it through with him yeah from the aerial photo I looked at this morning it doesn't look like there's a house near you you you may have a neighbor but not a not a house that's Tyler Tyler and whim are probably the closest the things are spaced out um fairly well in this neighborhood yeah there's a couple of houses over in the what I don't know if it's called a subdivision or not the Ames Haven Road conglomeration you know that where they're fairly close together by necessity but um right if I may hi Russ it's been a long time hi John yeah um the the neighbor to your North Tyler is how you yeah Tyler shent is there in fact a house on that yes and how it's on the other side it's on the Northern side on the Northern side so how far would you say roughly that house 250 200 feet from your prop from the proper 250 feet at least he's got he sided it over there I think to get solar gain yep actually that was one of the um affordable House housing projects in shutesbury uh that they did and originally they were going to put it pretty much right on the property line and I talked to him I I happen to know Paul Douglas who ran the operation you know the affordable House Company and talk to him about it because you know it was a it it just was didn't seem to me any reason why they needed to put it on the property line so I convinced them to put it on the North side which actually help them because now they they have solar panels on their roof and they they're able to get that Advantage so if if things were to work out where you could place this within the proximity of the boundary line that you'd like it's really not close to their living space no and there's Woods the woods is pretty thick there I mean it's thinned out the underbrush is thinned out over the years but it's still pretty thick there's plenty of trees between his house and my house yeah yeah um I do have a question this isn't really I I'm not bringing this up as I'm trying not to be a nudge here but it's really hard I did a little research so I have a question for you and this is maybe for my education because I don't really know the answer to this but I did go on the um assessor map page because I was looking at Lots in the Lake District and you know I F just outside of the Lake District um but there are six slots that I count that border wendle road that are part of the Lake District that are all larger size Lots than mine who that have more Frontage and are under the regulations of the Lake District they're on the same road as me Wendel Road I'm on the same side as them and yet and I can name the the I have the list in front of me but um you know one of them already has a house on them 28828 wendle Road and they're not they're not subject to the same zoning regulations that I am and I can't understand why they're included in the Lake District I'm not trying to get them their privileges taken away um and I realize it's not possible to get me put in the Lake District at this stage of the game it would just um delay my project but I just had I had to ask how was it decided that those lots got to be part of the Lake District when I can't find any difference between them and mine and the reason for the difference in the zoning with the Lake District is because the house the the lots are small and the houses are close together which is not the case with these Lots they're all buildable because they're all described as developable on the assessor page um they're assessed at a value that would indicate that they are buil considered building lots and as I said one of them even has a house on it they all have more Frontage and more acreage than mine so what's the rationale for putting them in the Lake District and me not Jeff you remember how that got drawn I know I drew it um the the um the two hardest districts to to draw back in 2006 or seven or eight when we did it were the Lake wola District and the Town Center District I mean where do they begin where do they end what what what do the polygons look like for those districts and uh I think the lake was harder um to to figure out um but anyway it it it roughly um covers many tiers of housing back from from the lake um and one thing you have to do when you're designing zoning districts is you you you have to have known boundaries um you know whether it's a stream or a road or a a power line or a water B something like that um because otherwise your map is subject to just endless interpretation it has to be exact the thing has to end somewhere and roads are often where they do uh so Lake District very hard to to draw but everything in it is subject to those regulations and and nothing's that far from the lake um you know there's different areas around that Lake um there's larger Lots in in the uh the eastern part of the district and there's smaller Lots in the western part of that District um that's just that's just the way it is but the the lake is in the middle of it all and um so anyway that was all done 16 years ago with difficulty but I guess seems a little arbitrary I can't see what the difference between the Privileges and or if you want consider it a privilege some people might not yeah um having the shorter setbacks what the difference is between their lots and mine are I mean I don't it it doesn't seem like it's an equal playing field here yeah well the the the setbacks work well for the majority the the overwhelming majority of of the Lots in that District those setbacks work work well for you you're probably noticing the sidey yard setback 15t versus 25 yeah I mean that's what we're talking about yeah yeah that's um you know that that those lots you're talking about may be more in character with with with your place um but that's the way the mapping ended up and it's it's never perfect there's always some um fuzzy wiggle room around the edges of those districts and it could not in any way be considered a precedent to of to give me in order to bypass a special permit I doubt I already know the answer to that but no well this is what makes the special permitting import special that well that it is that it provides opportunities for situations that need to have other considerations given how they're zoned well whatever couldn't restrain myself from bringing that up though so it sounds like there's a path for you Russ um you can apply for a special permit and um from what Jeff said this this is something that's happened before so um I think that's that's probably what you want to do okay so my next step is to get an application from the town yep and so so normally Carrie would would help you with that Carrie and and the town clerk because you're going to need the application to fill out you're going to I can't remember what the fee was you have to include a check for that um I think it's up to $600 am I am I wrong I thought there was some kind of sliding scale on that we we had increased it for certain types of projects um you know the larger solar projects that take extensive review I think we have a higher fee for those now um but I don't know what the fees are anymore um but there's also um that there's also the certified list of abutters um right and and and I can't remember whether the clerk sends out those those notices or the applicant does um we've had a clerk doing this stuff for so long I I just have I haven't had to do it so I don't know all the details um seemed to me it would be the town's responsibility to do that I mean I but I don't know so so John there's absolutely nobody at Town Hall to I mean can we still get in touch with Carrie I've not heard anything from Carrie and none of the things none of the emails that I've sent to the zba um you know email um have been answered by anybody it's a problem okay well um I mean I can um arrange to meet you up there Russ I I know where that stuff is in town hall and and get you the application and there's a I believe there's a second page that says you know what sort of documents get included with that um that application page okay I'd appreciate it that'd be nice of you you want to wait a couple days till you feel a little better yeah we can do it next week if you've got time catch catch up with me next week and we'll we'll make a timey John yeah I I have well just this morning I sent you the site plan review checklist there's also a special permit checklist yeah that's what I thought yep so who's that will there's 20 steps Russ many of which we we have to take um some the town clerk has to take some you have to take um and I think I think there's five parties involved but um John should ship you the checklist so that you know what it is and how to go through that process but I believe on the checklist it also enumerates who's responsible for everything right yep so so I you know that's what Carrie went off of is that checklist so if you just use that I think you'll you'll know what she knows all right sounds good I'll give you a call John thanks Russ thank you yeah hope you feel better Russ thank you okay take care shall we um we had what else on their our agenda items not um not known about a forehand um I attended the um State webinar the other day on um you know the um changes to around accessory Apartments um primarily so they had an attorney and a bunch of pretty knowledgeable planners on there who who pitched a presentation and then they answered questions from the audience there were 20 I'm gonna say 20 people on that call yeah I'm I'm gonna do it in September they they I was gonna say that they're gonna do it again so yeah yeah yeah it was very well attended and I recognized a lot of the names in the crowd from um from that list serf that that you know I follow so um that was interesting and some times you could even put a face with oh yeah so yeah that's that's that's what they look like huh so so you're on the mass planners list sir I have been for years you know and then I got off because when they closed my town account um you know all of those subscriptions went away so I recently got back on it because I wanted to uh you know there's some useful information in there and I actually um went on there and asked a question about setbacks and setbacks coming forward with with properties you know um with regard to this thing on wend road and you know planners from across the state said uh no and I talked to Donna McNichol about it too and she also said no so I've felt like I was on solid footing there saying you know what I think you need to get a special permit let's talk about it at a meeting [Music] so yeah um one resource that um that I find indispensable is um the um the the guide to Massachusetts land use yep which is only available only available um if you're a APA member American Planning Association Mass chapter and if you're a member you can uh you can access it off of their it there are no printed versions of it oh my word it's it's like 460 Pages it's got hyperlinks all over the place you you can you can go to cases you can look up all this stuff it's it's marvelous um it was written by Bob Mitchell yeah I know Bob former planing director of amest and um Bob Richie oh yeah y you know from the Attorney General's office and the old Peach Orchard's lawyer for a long time yeah um you know they're like preeminent authorities and so whenever I have a question I go to that um you know it's getting a tiny bit dated I think it came out I think it was finished in 21 or 22 um there been no revisions to it you know certainly this stuff that just passed in the housing Bond bill needs to go in there um not sure who's going to do that but still I mean it's 98% debt on yeah and it's designed for boards cbas building inspectors and planning boards it was interesting some of the questions that were posed on on that webinar you know were um really building inspector questions or board of health questions that um I was surprised that a lot of these planners had no clue about and you know I mean just walk across the hall and ask them they know the answer mhm so anyway we don't you're a member of the APA obvious I I I I use it a lot what's the membership to that Jeff I think it's 35 bucks oh that's all okay yeah um who else gets that Michael di Kier I think gets that yeah I think the town should pay for somebody from the zba to have membership that's that's a good uh that's a good investment of town money right there yep yeah I thought I might be able to use the hour of that um webinar as a continuing ed credit for my uh building inspector's license because I think building inspectors need to know about that don't they there there were some on the call oh yeah definitely all right all right so I'm just trying to summarize what we're talking about here discussed um new state [Music] legislation which Bond Bill ledge and guide book okay bring up something new to this particular conversation yeah um well actually it's it's going back to the whole uh lack of a land use clerk right now um that that's going to be a thorn uh I think that for well for whoever is taking the responsibility for doing those duties um and and I and I hear the conversation about boy wouldn't it be great if we could kind of do a combination thing where the town could benefit from several boards having access to someone like that even even boards that currently have someone who's kind of filling the role as a volunteer on the board you know might might jump at it uh if they had that kind of a service and I I just wonder what kind of uh Wheels might be turned to have that be more than just this item that just kind of well wouldn't be nice and then it doesn't go any further further than that um what what kind of strings do you have to pull to really get something like that seriously considered uh in the right Halls who's are who's who's on the HR board in town it seems like that's something they should take up what what the town should probably do is add up what we are paying for the three clerks that we now have that serve border Health select zba planning and concom and see how that would compare with having you know none of those positions have benefits I don't think that's the problem benefits and um you know retirement type stuff Health um so I don't know some kind of fiscal comparison and then a aggravation and efficiency comparison as well compared to what's going on now well I mean I don't know how some of these boards you know how you going to staff them I I I would not have signed up to be the clerk and the chair of the CBA you know I mean this this to be a lot of work here I'm up at Town Hall you know two three times a week now and um I'm I'm tired that's partly why I'm advocating for this John that's that's that's not what you signed up for it's ridiculous yeah yeah well the the the Board of Health has Katherine Hilton who the LA as I recall well it's now the chair I think but also the the paid yeah yeah oh I see they they P for that yeah that was queried as a conflict of interest which they said is is now it's a going to be okay I remember that discussion a little while back yeah but um but the but you're saying that the does concom have the person that does their clerking is that person paid also well that's the same person the same person okay okay okay okay okay all right so you know when I was on the planning board I clerked that board for seven years I think and then when I was on the zba I clerked that board for five years or more um and at that point I said you know we got to get somebody to do this this that's that's how Linda Ava Scott um sort of came into being she was doing one other board and I said look at she already knows how to do this why don't we just have her and and um she expanded her role to serve a few more boards you know and that was great because well as you know Jeff it's it's it's impossible to be part of a meeting where you're deciding something and also trying to keep the minutes you know yeah well I I will tell you that strange as it might seem I I queried the the Charlemont clerk to the boards who does six six boards and works part-time under 20 hours a week wow I was amazed at that I thought I thought she worked more than that but um the town is trying to get her up closer to 20 but I think she's like 15 to 18 a week is what you told me um charlmont is is sleepier Town than shutesbury but um still that's pretty efficient that you know they have they have a good deal on that person we have a lot of concom business here in town because um because of the lake primarily so well we get a lot of our raise on the zba because of the lake too yeah yeah all right so um okay we haven't vote we've discussed a lot of this stuff I'm putting it in the minute that we discussed it but we haven't really voted on anything um except to approve the site plan review application so or the yeah so all right that was the only vote we took today so I yeah okay all right and and and isn't there another set of minutes out there I I recall doing another set of minutes before and I Shi them off to you John so maybe at our next meeting we could review those and approve them sounds good all right if there's nothing else I will close the meeting at 11:58 uh let's see motion to adjourn the moved excellent all in favor I Lacy i a i and that's at 1158 59 now okay thanks guys always a pleasure gentlemen great to see you guys okay you too Jeff you guys are are I don't miss shoes very much but I shoots very people so well the tal is the people right it's the people yeah we I I many conversations come up surrounding oh wouldn't it be nice if Lacy was around for this and that or whatever so yeah you're you're you remembered as well Jeff so get get your butt back here whenever you can well there's a lot of other conversations that come up that say aren't we glad he's gone not been privy all right take care you guys okay guys