we're good meeting of the Somerville planning board for April 24th 2024 will please come to order adequate notice of this meeting as required by the open public meeting act has been provided a copy of a notice specifying the date time and location was one posted on the bulletin board outside borrow Hall two mailed facts are emailed to The Courier News and three given the clerk administrator this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times roll call chairman Nado here M rinsky here mayor Gallagher here councilman vroom here miss adir here miss Warner Mr CA here Mr cares Mr Cleveland here Mr addex here Mr aens okay Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice okay our first item of business is Route 22 dispensary LLC good evening Mr chairman board members uh members of the public my name is Michael silbert and I'm an attorney from the law firm D franccesco baitman located in Warren Township New Jersey I have the privilege this evening of representing the applicant Route 22 dispensary LLC the application concerns property located at block 92 lot 2.02 more commonly known as 1062 Route 22 East the property is located in the Burrows B5 Highway business district the applicant seeks to renovate the existing building on the property which is currently a sonoko gas station um and the renovations are to convert the existing building into a class 5 cannabis retailer which is a permitted use in the B5 Zone the applicant Pro proposes to eliminate the existing gas station infrastructure on the property and expand the existing building um and this expansion includes the construction of a second floor second floor will consist of a manager Office bathroom Security office supply Vault utility room and open offices or open Office Space uh the ground floor consists of sales display areas uh vule best security room and bathroom so the gas pumps as I previously indicated will be eliminated uh the parking lot pavement will be milled and repaved throughout the lot and the applicant will increase the total number of parking spaces to 20 total spaces uh that includes one EV parking space as well as an ADA parking space uh the proposed application necessitates variance relief pursuant to section c of the mlul as a result result of the proposed Max Improvement coverage for the property where 55% is permitted 78.6% is existing and 70.4% is proposed so while C variance relief is required it should be noted that the relief sought is actually an improvement to an existing non-conforming condition on the property um there is additional relief required all of which again are existing conditions on the property um I'm just going to note them for Mr koh's uh report dated March 20th 2024 um this is a corner lot so there are two front yard setbacks so the variant is identified in Mr Cole's report which can be found on page 20 uh again include that variance for Max Improvement coverage uh minimum sidey yard variance um where 14.9 feet are permitted 14 point I'm sorry where 20 feet is permitted 14.9 ft exists and 14.9 ft is proposed um there's also a variance required for uh loading spaces where a loading space is required there is a loading zone on the property however it's not identified as a loading space thus financi relief is required for that that's um so that's not an existing non-conformity but um parking location for example is uh ordinance requires that parking spaces be located at least 20 ft from any property line here the property spaces are located within 20 ft of the property line and those are those are the variances that are identified by by Mr Cole there was another one um that uh basically suggests it could be a variance or not depending on uh how the applicant handles uh odor and noise and we'll we'll we'll address that later on in our application um one more side point uh the applicants proposing two wall signs um the architectural plans which you have before you and the renderings will show that the wall signs were on the um front of the building if you're looking at the front of the building by the entrance and then to the left side of the front and the applicant wishes to relocate that sign on the from the left side of the building to the rear of the building um it's the applicant's contention that the rear of the building technically fronts on North Gaston Avenue as does that left side but out of an abundance of caution um will'll defer to the board and board planner if a variance is required if it is um we're seeking a variance to locate that sign to the rear of the building obviously our architectural plans and renderings or the architectural plans will be revised should that uh variance be granted um for to have the sign on the rear of the building um our our civil engineer and architect will address the angle of the building and how it's situated on the property is really driving uh that variance if it is considered to be a variance there also a number of waivers being sought in connection with this application um there's waivers for the number of shade chees trees being provided Street trees storm water management and lighting and we can address that during our uh site plan testimony by Mr Styers uh just uh just to note the applicant has procured proper local licensing from the Burrow's governing body and is in the process of procuring proper licensing from the Cannabis Regulatory Commission and all appropriate and applicable state agencies there were um environmental reports submitted to the board um and Roa was issued for the property on November 3rd 2022 which recognizes that remediation for the property has been completed in in compliance with the administrative requirements for the remediation of contaminated sites um um and the applicant will continue to comply with all uh D requirements as it relates to uh remediation of the property and that goes without saying but of course with removing any of the infrastructure on the property as it relates to uh tanks um before I introduce my first witness uh I would just like uh to address a letter dated April 8 2024 which was submitted to the board by Mr Alex Alexander Fischer on behalf of the township of Bridgewater um just I'll summarize it very briefly but the letter requests three things of the board okay that's fine I will appliation report of Cole counil refer of April 824 yeah we can mark that I think as a A4 because you uh we're marking Mike Mr Cole's report as A3 right P oh pp1 okay yeah that's fine 2024 okay sorry go ahead thank you just writing this down here um so there were there were three things three main things uh in that in Mr Fischer's letter uh I'll just address the second item um regarding Bridgewater Township's concern for potential loitering on the applicant's property um the applicant intends to provide regular regular loitering sweeps and their security on site there'll be no loitering signing so I just wanted to preemptively address the second concern from Bridgewater Township that the applicant's willing to to work with the board um to satisfy uh and uh accommodate Bridgewater Township's concerns um the application will be presented by three expert Witnesses and those witnesses will address the other two points raised in Mr Fischer's letter um the first uh expert witness is Mr Craig Styers the applicants engineer obviously he'll discuss the site plan uh Mr Roco campanel is the applicant's architect he'll discuss the architectural plans and renderings before the board um and lastly Miss Betsy do Dolan the applicant traffic expert will discuss the traffic study that was submitted to the board as well as uh address the number of concerns raised in uh Township of brid Bridgewater letters as it relates to traffic and parking also in attendance this evening are Mr uh James Bar and Mr Joseph Savino principles of the applicant um Mr bar will be available to address any questions and provide testimony as it relates to uh operations on the property um and we'll probably have uh Mr bar provide testimony in between Mr campanella's architectural testimony and Miss Dolan's traffic testimony so um with that as an introduction Mr chairman would it be appropriate to swear all of my Witnesses yep thank you I do thank you and I'd like to call my first witness if that's okay with you Mr chairman Mr Craig Styers and uh if I can give Mr Styers the opportunity to put background uh educational background and credentials on the record Mr Styers has testified before this board many times yes thank you so Mr Styers did you prepare or supervise the preparation of the site plan before the board this evening yes and if you can would be so kind to please share with the board what the applicants proposing to do by way of this application mike2 station it current currently has 20,5 also has a located islands with two of pums is underneath canopy and also parking along the of the proper yeah the we didn't have a colored one with the application right okay so we'll mark that as A4 and that's a colored version of which pageot this location right here you have the dealership former and then you have the other gas station on the opposite side of North Gast um going back as far as the property is concerned there are three driveways thew driveway isri going east that is outb to Route 22 and then you have a third driveway on the East is in and there's also a sign on the W property line currently dis proper in5 z z zoning items think the last couple requ to be Craig could you move the mic a little closer certainly thanks um going to the proposed conditions um obviously we're here for the uh cannabis dispensary all gas station facilities will be removed so that's the um all the pumps the canopy all the underground tanks uh related to the gas station will be removed the existing building will be renovated and a second story added um as again Mike outlined and the entire parking lot will be uh between all the concrete and the tanks coming out is essentially the the whole parking lot would be replaced and um renew anything that's existing will probably be just overlaid to match up uh with the proposed conditions the impervious coverage would be reduced from 78.6 to 70.4% the existing driveways would be remain unchanged and then um obviously as you see on the plan lighting and Landscaping will be uh all new lighting and Landscaping on the site around the perimeter so that's really the kind of the introduction of the of the application thank you and then um just to reiterate again to make clear so the the driveways on the property they're all proposed to remain the same yes and uh the driveways on the property to your knowledge they how long have they existed there as long as I've been around Somerville tell you the truth I mean it's it's always been that in and out and then the same thing coming off in North Gaston so and and obviously you've been to the site um a number of times both with your professional hat on and and not with your professional hat on Cor right okay and um did you from an engineering perspective have you experienced have well from an engineering perspective do you perceive there to be any um uh substantial issues with respect to the the configuration of the driveways I mean you'll hear testimony from our traffic engineer I think she does have traffic reports um I'm sure anybody you know obviously from Somerville had you know that on and off has been a concern but you know it's worked over the years um I think you'll probably hear that there's maybe there was two accidents there from the reports that she got so um like I said the configuration's been there forever I think people have adjusted to it and honestly I think the um if anything the north east driveway the one going back on the 22 I think people tend to realize you know you go on when you go on the 22 you go out that driveway if you're going down North Gaston you you go out the east driveway so you know it's not as bad as it you know appears to be so my opinion take it for what it's worth I guess you could say thank you and I'll I'll save my uh traffic questions remaining ones for for Miss Dolan um turning to Mr Cole's report um could turn to uh page eight and uh I'm looking at comment number three um have you given any consideration as to whether uh the slope should be reduced of the curb I think Mike you're talking about the Ada on right yeah um it's kind of tight right along the building there you know I tried to get it I mean obviously we can massage we can take a look at it but you know just getting around that turn and right up to the entrance there we had to jump up so but we can take a look at that yeah absolutely and um spoke about this earlier today uh page nine comment five um what's the reason for not using Granite block curbing um I think that we just used the uh concrete now so we with what was out there now if the board has preference to Belgian BL we could switch that that's detail so we can defer to the board and uh Mr Cole on that item so talk about the um loading Space versus loading zone and you might have already touched upon it but I mean we can change the name of it I think we just put it as a loading zone but we can change name and make it a loading space as long as Craig the question is the dimensions I don't know if you had I think I had a comment about putting it to the east of the building whether you think it's more appropriate in front U and you think this the space compli yeah I think it's probably more appropriate there there's adequate I mean besides the loading zone space there's still 24t of driveway to get around that and most likely the deliveries aren't going to be during um the business hours so where it's located at this point okay and we we'll get into operational tests M about when that loading space will be used um any issues with the uh contribution uh into the environmental to the environmental commission for not planting the street treesin the burrow I think the site's def ficient of six trees yeah and obviously because of the site distances it's a little tough to put in the street trees so you know I'd rather make the contribution to just keep the site a little bit safer rather than put the trees up same thing would hold true for the U the shade trees I would say so yes page four top I'll defer to Mr Cole but are the um are the contributions required for both the street trees and the shade trees typically this is street they're doing more no no we're doing less but you're still over but you're still over okay it should be just because you can't put them on 100% right SES but I would say just to make it more someplace else in town let's do that yeah if we can't put the four trees the contribution because one of the comments Mike made which is um is to pull the Westerly curve line closer in so that there's a better Gap from the property line so if we can squeeze a couple trees there we'll do that so yeah you know it could be six you know half and half actually so yes so even though even though the ordinance doesn't require it if if it's boards um pleasure that we contribute for the shade trees I'm sure the applican would be willing to do that I think you have room for shade on your property we only need one more you have you have the way the property you have a huge space in the middle of your property where the canop is coming down yeah I think there's room on the West Street where Craig said if he pushes the parking spaces Westerly with the depressed CB for storm to run off I think you can get a whole Landscaping bed in there to FR to to provide the trees I agree with Craig I think there I agree with you I think there's plenty of room on site to make all accommodate all these things is there a reason why the building is angled it's not all existing absolutely everything we right I think if we can get them all on there there's a good there was a comment in Mr Cole's report about a light pole proposed uh located within the right of way um that's something that we're going to move right yeah be the same thing we have to pull the curve line in or the lights so the Landscaping of Lights come back on the property correct for the same reason D said there's I think we're all in agreement there's room there yeah I mean there's a um question uh was raised about the installation of uh ballards or raising the concrete foundation um for parking spaces located within 2 and a half feet of the parking spaces are we okay to do that that is p yeah Mike what page are you on 11 or 12 sorry I took it out of the report put in my own outline which is not helpful 11 item four item one four page 11 item four it say any lights located within two 2.5 feet of the parking space that's the typical backup yes that is fine so what they're talking about is the base of the lights if they're within proximity of the parking space you raise up the base so that you don't lock the light you don't get backed into a car and get Dam yeah that's fine uh so with the uh decrease in impervious coverage and it sounds like we're going to do some Landscaping improvements would you agree that um storm water management should be um improved on the property yes okay and can you just talk briefly about the storm water runoff that exists and whether any of the improvements will negatively impact it I mean it's basically on a high point it does it breaks towards 22 but it also breaks kind of east and west and the curve line along the west ofes is actually depressed so it maintains that same sheet flow that it does now so we're looking to maintain the flow that's there now but like I said the imperious coverage is going down and it'll probably go down even further just by pulling things a little in a little bit more so does it sheet down gas like once it comes down that driveway is it going down gas slow so it go down and then there's there's down uh in front of the car dealership want to call the Volkswagen so Craig the existing runoff is not adversely impacting surrounding streets or Neighbors from Europe I don't think so no no I mean it's uh they said it some of it comes down private driveway it all ultimately gets to North and and that's really where the catch bases are so it picks it up and you're reducing the coverage which also she yes in the past I've had comments about trench grains that intercepted across this sidewalk but I've had this discussion with Craig and other applications because of that slope I agree with Craig that slope going down is relatively Steep and the water's going to move so the moving water should not be an icing problem get picked up before it hits the res nebor it hits the street relatively it's going to move quickly off the property so we should that should deter iing yeah right Greg I meaning a play this I've broken you down right um if you could turn to page 14 comment one uh under Section f um I just wanted uh to know if the opin can uh comply with Mr Cole suggestions or comments as it relates to the uh dumpster enclosure that the materials would match um yeah that's actually that's in the ordinance that it should match a building so yes so we'll comply y okay um I think one of the ones with the S sewer I was able to look up actually the maps I think you preped yeah and that that Lal actually shows to come off the southeast corner of the building so we have it sh southwest corner so we would update that location and it doesn't look like we need any type of license because it's going right to the public sewer in South Gast okay great uh turning to comment one on page 16 uh Mr Styers if uh we require to a sord connection fee um we'll handle that with the sorage Authority for the second floor Edition that's corre correct y um any idea as to the age of the sanatory store I think that you had noted on your what's that the the lateral yeah at the lateral if we just televise it if it's PVC or we have some documentation obviously that's not a problem but if it's an old terracotta Lo lateral it's beat up and it's my understanding that since New Jersey American is taking it over the sewer that if there's any problem the or from the curve from the cleanout or from this case the sidewalk to the Road New Jersey American will be doing that okay so we're talking literally televising it but if the problem's on site it's the applicant's responsibility if it's in the street it's no longer the applicant it's the it's the New Jersey American who fix it and uh I'm gonna ask you about some of the variances or all the variances we're seeking uh this evening so would you agree that the variances we're seeking either improve existing non-conforming conditions or keep them the same yeah most of them relate to the building which said Larry the building St where it ISS are stay where they are um the imperious coverage were actually making better which originally 8% it's probably going to get closer to 10% down by the time we make those adjustments and just speaking to the to the lot for a second the lot's an undersized lot it's also a corner lot correct yes so is it fair to say that uh the existing setback departures are largely a result of of this yeah because of that corner lot and those increased front yard requirements on both north Gaston and on Route 22 and and from a engineering perspective is it is it obviously things are possible but it would would anybody really construct a conforming building on the property for this type of permitted use that complies with the setback requirements the parking space location requirements and the load space requirements given the lot size and given the fact that it's a corner lot is it really practical to do that well even the configuration by by putting the set back so far because I believe they're 50 feet on both G North gas and 22 you essentially put the lot the building right in the center of the lot and then it kind of you have to build around that right so whereas the building set back right now opens up the parking that you can use for the customers I guess what my question is is that if you had Blank Slate if you weren't re using the uh reusing the existing building would it be practical for somebody to come in and construct a building on the center of the property that would comply with all of the ordinance requirements uh you even have the parking uh setback where it has to be 20 feet from the property line so is it really practical no okay um just gonna g to read uh I don't know if you're familiar with the with the Poland versus South planfield case but um theel division is held that zoning benefits resulting from permitting uh deviations are not restricted to those directly obtained from permitting the deviations at issue the benefits of Permitting the deviation can be considered in light of the benefits resulting from the entire development proposed so here we're talking about existing non-conformities we're seeking to keep those in place my question to you is do you believe the benefits of the proposed deviations um considered in light of the benefits resulting from the entire development proposed substantially outweigh any detriments I would say yes and I want to just talk about some of the benefits under the uh C2 criteria um turning to the C2 criteria the reduction of Max Improvement coverage is it your opinion that will help promote the public health and safety um by reducing again the the uh Improvement coverage on the property correct um and as we already stated class five dispensaries are permitted in the zone so this is advancing the permitted uses in the zone would you agree with that yes okay um turning to um criteria b or purpose B again I'm referring to section two of the municipal land use law the reduction of Max Improvement coverage um you believe that'll help um secure from from flooding on the property yes okay and then you noted how what's the U maximum permitted height in the zone if I said 70t with that if that Mak sense yes four stor 70 ft and yet we're seeking a set uh sidey yard setback or I mean yeah is it I think it's sidey guard yeah confused because of the corner lot but I think it's a sidey guard setback so the the fact that the the applicant is going to construct a building at a height of 28 points 28 feet approximately leaves approximately 41 feet less than what is permitted in the zone is that accurate yes so would you say that by doing that that adequate light air and open space are are Advanced by this building height absolutely that's section c um obviously the applicant is procuring all local state and agency approvals um as it relates to the use is that correct yes and um turning to uh section g um do you believe the variant relief being sought helps to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for for this type of commercial use yes thank you um respect to section I um you've obviously reviewed Mr campanella's architectural plans and renderings yes and do you believe that's uh promoting a desirable visual visual visual environment yes it's an improvement over what the existing conditions are right now that's great and um and how about just the uh the site the the way you've laid out the site as engineer where the parking is located for example within 20 feet of uh the lot lines do you think that's that's promoting um a uh do you think that's using good Civic design and Arrangement based upon the potential parking concerns associated with this application yes and in fact we're probably pulling the the parking back further from the property lines as much as we can I know just to speak to signage for a second because again I don't know if a variance is really required for this but um I noted in my introduction that one of the wall signs we want to relocate it from the left side of the building to the rear of the building um I don't know if you want to just show the board what I'm speaking about so right now the uh if you look at the architectural plans the second sign is located in this area right here so if you to look at what that potentially uh improve on or uh advertise to you have traffic going eastbound on 22 so what we're looking to do to maximize the really the exposure and be able to get to the site it's instead of having it here we put it on the back here so when you come up north guest and you have a better visual coming into the site instead of just realizing it right here and then trying to turn in you have it well in advance of the uh don't you have trees in front of the building yeah but it's still up a little bit more I mean we going be like on the second floor just move it up a little bit more yes so Craig you want to move it from the Eastern facade to the southern facade correct yeah yeah um just a couple questions to to uh to that so in your opinion would you say that sign does front on the street I mean directionally speaking and as far as Advan I would say it would be a better location coming up north Gast like I said you're you're not really advertising for anybody on that east side I mean people have already driven by and even coming up north Gaston you're up to that point where you're actually making the left so I'd rather had the advanced notice on by putting it on the back side great and um and again it's it's you're you're essentially saying this but the sign located there is better serving the purpose of the sign correct yes and and sign it just to alert the motoring public of what exists on the property and it's advancing that objective yes okay thank you and then um speak to uh uh the detriments are there any nearby Homes located to this uh or located nearby as you can see on the area right there there are no homes other than the one in the middle of Route 22 so there there are homes further to the South but as far as what you see right there there are no homes uh within the indidual of that area so with these existing non-conformities is it your opinion that this does not pose any detriment to public good no and then just turning to the to the master plan uh do you think this application helps to encourage uh development and improvements of non-residential uses in the appropriate designated areas yes and what I mean by that is in summer bill and I I believe correctly if I'm wrong the B5 zone is the only Zone that this uses permitted correct okay and do you believe that this site helps the site design and parking Arrangement helps to ensure there is adequate parking to meet off street parking demands yes and and I don't know if you have reviewed the master plan um but would it surprise you to learn that the um master plan is littered with uh the objectives and goals to meet off street parking demands yes it would it would surprise you or would it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise thank you all right so um that's what I have uh for for Mr sire so I'll turn it over to you Mr chairman and the board if the board has any questions okay any questions all right and and typically what we do is we'll let you go through all of your testimony and then then we'll open it up to the public for comments and questions okay thank you so my next witness Mr chairman is Mr Roco Campanella um project architect Mr Campanella has been sworn and uh I'd like to give Mr campella an opportunity when he's situated take your time to uh place on the record his educational background and experience as a professional and licensed architect you could just spell your name for the record too so we get that right Rocco Campanella r c m p a n e l l a almost had it thanks Mr Campanella has testified before this board previously and we will accept him as an expert thank you so Mr Campanella obviously you prepared or supervised the renderings and Architectural plans that are before the board this evening yes and can you uh talk a little bit about your your beautiful design and and the uh Renovations proposed for for this property yeah we have you know uh from time to time we get the opportunity to work with clients who who have a vision and have a desire to do something special and uh we we we look forward to that because it gives us uh uh ourselves an opportunity to do something unique and uh to this client it was important to have the right materials that have the right the right feel of the building we wanted the building to be a unique building we wanted to blend in but we also wanted an opportunity to create uh you know something that was special and uh so you do that but you know you study the site you study the angles how you approach the building and how you use it and uh create the right focal points create the right materials and uh you try to stick to Quality um on all aspects and and I think we did just that you know we provided a good Stone Bas uh complimentary uh trim uh two different brick colors and and some uh accent in insulated stule finish and a beautiful canopy that kind of accents uh the two sides of the building are most prominent so as you approach this building and you're traveling East um you know the tower element becomes um uh important so they can be visualized on the corner which is where the entrance is created uh that by providing um a nice little storefront uh glass again covered with a nice canopy that reps on both sides to accentuate the lines of the building both horizontally and vertically it's a two-story building but we don't want it we don't want this to feel like a two story building we wanted to keep it uh the tower to to break the the element the vertical element of of the building and keep the building as simple as possible on the other sides um so that was approach the solution and just um so these plans that you're referring to you're holding up the rendering right now that was previously submitted to the board was it submitted in color it was submitted in color but if if Miss kazinski if you want to mark this we can I don't we don't have to if that's the exact same thing that was submitted to the board we're fine if we could just reference what sheet that is for the record so as you approach the site then travel east on 22 the corner becomes very prominent we want the signage to stand out we chose brick and base that continues all the way around on the two sides some nice interest low as well as mid points as well as high so that was our solution for the the other elevation that would be less the building is side of building and as travel out and exit out to North C but the elements are the architectural elements in the finishes we wrapped on all three sides because we thought that was important to give the building uh you know that continuous look so both of these have been filed not sure if you have any questions about the Flor plans and the Elations also file but we depict all four elevations the four plan is a simple Flor plan the main floor is essentially the public space where people come to VI the product and purchase and set come back out the same entrance the upstairs is strictly dedicated to the staff is not really allow us upstairs this place facili um just turning to Mr Cole's report I'm looking at page 15 um I think you addressed I think you addressed items one and two so I'm looking at item three I think you spoke about the colors I don't know if the board has any questions about the finishings let's turn to to comment four um equipment will be screened from public view is that correct yeah we don't have any OB okay so it'll be so uh equipment to be located on the roof um we'll have uh we'll have testimony as it relates to operations um we can comply with with comment six uh regarding the uh the uh noise requirements yes yeah that will be part of our compliance package as well we can that can be to the record it's something that weally comply with and as far as roof leaders we're not making any changes it's the same uh we're going to use utilize the existing roof leaders to the extent possible same same setup will be similar won't be the same obviously we're going to provide all new but there'll be a gutter in the back with the two leers and they're going to be away from traffic they're going to be on the back side where is the grass landscape area um and um they aren't depicted on the re elevation we're going to keep the same dra the roof is going to slope to the back and pitch to The Back To The Gutter and uh be directed down to the leaders two leers yes and uh no basement correct no Bas no great so I'll turn it back to board I just have a question about the second floor so I don't see any windows and I see one stair so there's no second mean of er from the second floor like the means of erress for the second floor well I'm just asking clarification because just worrying if you're up there and that stair is blocked if you notice the stair Downs stair two ways can come out to the side just a sidewalk or it can come back okay so the stair would dump them directly outside yes okay it can go directly outside it could also come back in in case it gets used internally so it's used internally for daily operation emergency agressive it also goes directly when we look at elev Elation you'll see that door it comes directly to the outside but no windows yeah I was curious about that too why are there no windows up there I'm sorry windows on the second floor oh yeah we didn't you know for security reasons we didn't consider uh the windows uh we talked about skylights uh we and you know this is something that we can talk further you know with uh uh with our client about um but we chose not to do it uh at that time just make sure you're speaking y the layout of the facility is highly regulated by the state in terms of security and the storage of the product to alleviate noise and odors so I I think maybe that has something to do with it okay I'm just curious that's a good question Mr chairman I just have a coule couple questions just to yes get it on the record and as Mr Cole stated the um internal layout and and um operations are very highly regulated I just want to put on the record uh will any product be visible Through the Windows uh on the front of the facility that is okay and there's no Drive D through correct sorry no drivethru no okay and is there any internal consumption area proposed not to my knowledge no no all right thank you okay thanks anybody have any questions okay you get to the rooftop equipment how would you get the yeah what we have is um located ility room in the back of the space you think we going have a combination of internal equipment and some external equipment so we'll may end up on a roof we get screened so we're hoping to keep that to a minimum but to get to it hatch it'll be a rooftop unit that will penetrate the roof and then we also need to go down into the first floor chase that to supply that first floor but to access to access access the roof Ro hatch at the top of the stair or this building is not that tall it also be reached from the outside in case of emergency usually a quick solution is to at the toping so that you can access the roof level at that as far as maintenance and regular repairs and things like that patch the roof okay thank you thank you I'm gonna uh thanks Rocko I'm going to call our our next witness uh Mr James Bar he's here to speak about some of uh s's operation and might answer some of the board's questions um preemptively so James Bar b a r r so uh just to start off can you talk about your relationship with uh with this operation and and the company yeah sure I am one of the investors and operators directors of the the business along with Joseph sauno so we are going to be the day-to-day operators of the business uh we will hire our our staff to to run you know um the primary operations and day-to-day of the of the store and interaction with customers and Joe and I will be supervising that um we'll be in charge of regulatory matters Finance purchasing and some of the administrative functions but we'll be present at the building and uh big part of it and then can you just uh talk about some of exper experience you have in this industry yeah sure um I'm originally from East Lancing Michigan um but my my original experience in in cannabis was in Colorado and Denver um all the way back in 2010 um so that's where I started uh when it was first regulated from a medical standpoint point and so I owned and operated a three dispensary vertical uh business in u the Denver area called Good Meds so that was my first uh Endeavor into cannabis um and then I was a part owner of Illinois operation um in Champagne orbana was a dispensary in Champagne orbana called Phoenix Botanical and then various operations in Michigan uh later on with a company called uh prow and pure op that I was a founder of and U also as an executive at a a firm called Sky Brands um so those are my um cannabis experience uh uh experiences and roles that I've had I've also been a consultant uh for other operators and businesses trying to launch on the finance side um I'm an accountant by uh uh education and uh trade so that's how I uh I began as an accountant in the healthare industry uh have an MBA and uh uh with a focus on Healthcare uh finance and so I I do various Consulting projects but my new role here is really as the operator owner operator for this business and another that's located in Middle sex called mb1 Industries and that's a um a small class one tier one cultivation uh facility and that's going to be largely supplying this store um portion of the supply is going to come from that so it's really kind of a craft Farm to Table kind of or Farm to store type of model so that's what Joe and I are um pursuing here and going to be our main focus awesome and uh if I could just shift our Focus to the actual um store that's being proposed here um I'm sure everybody's interested to to understand this so what what would you say the uh anticipated customer volume is for store of this size based on your experience uh well it it typically takes a store anywhere from like 6 to 12 months to to reach its kind of long-term customer um level or flow so we anticipate you know a a maximum customer volume on a daily basis of about 350 customers that would be great uh that's what we're hoping for it's going to take us um you know six to six to 12 months to get to that level but that that's that's what we expect to and then uh let's talk about the anticipated um staff numbers and and roles what are you what are you anticipating to have per shift and what type of positions are at the property what can the board expect to see at this operation well we're converting an existing convenience store um to a dispensary it's small um and uh that's going to be our model is really convenience it's uh you know service missing our customers quickly it's in and out it's um you know uh catering to the community traffic and then also the sumerville local um residents so on a particular day I think we're going to be in the per shift going to have about six staff members there they'd be broken up between a security receptionist that would be in the vesu area when you first enter uh the store uh we'd have two sales asso that would be on registers that a customer could walk up to and Order directly from have a conversation with decide what they want to purchase purchase directly with that sales associate um we'll have a supervisor on site that'll float between the sales floor and then the inventory and fulfillment area that'll be in the back of the the sales area and then also on the Second Story um and then we'll have most likely two inventor Specialists there that will be fulfilling orders so when orders are um processed through the point of s system or online by customers ahead of time those inventory uh fulfillment Specialists will be preparing those orders uh when the customers arrive um and that's typically going to be about six staff members per shift and I'm I'm jumping ahead based upon what we spoke about but talk about um talk about whether their security guard will be present or if that's part if that's being included in that number um yes so the security uh guard receptionist would be stationed in the vestibule they'd be uh verifying age uh the age of the customers and uh and greeting them as they come in and uh managing flow into the sales area and so is that a that's a separate um position yes that that's a separate position they'll be specifically designated in the reception area when we don't have customers um you know uh that are in the store they can round on the property uh they'll be making sure it's in um you know there's no trash there's no loitering they can kind of have eyes and do some security sweeps when necessary um but largely they're going to be you know greeting customers and checking IDs and verifying age and so so you would say approximately six to seven employees then yeah six to seven employees and a on a shift our shift schedule is going to be to be roughly you know six hours um so we're allowed to be open 12 hours a day per the ordinance um from during Monday through Saturday so 10: am. to 10 pm so we'll just split that day in half and we'll have a six hour shift in the mornings um and then um a shift in the afternoons um so yeah 10: a.m. to 400 p.m. shift and the 4 P p.m. to 10 p.m. shift Monday through Saturday there'll be six staff on each of those shifts um s Sundays is a six-hour day so that works out well also for our shift schedules and and allocating hours for staff members is a Sunday shift is also going to be a six-h hour day and so what you're describing are essentially the hours of operation obviously this operation will comply with the Barrow's ordinance requirements as it relates to hours of operation correct yes okay so um want to just ask this question because I think it'll probably come up I figured I might as well ask it now um you spoke about the number of employees per shift I don't have this as an exhibit but there was a newspaper article about the um number of employees for this type of operation are you familiar with what I'm talking about yeah um in that article uh the article spoke about 20 employees can you just clarify what what I don't know if you said it or if Mr Savino said it but what what you meant by that just so there's no confusion yeah I think it's just total employees for the organization we're going to have part-time fulltime there's going to be multip shift so you looked at like um full-time equivalent right you know we should be in that 20 range including the weekends and then uh administrative functions that we have working outside of the store so in in total I think we're going to be you know 18 to 20 staff members um you know in the organization once we're fully operational not on the on the property at one time no okay and I'm obviously saying that because they're 20 parking spaces Propst correct yes great okay um I I kind of already spoke to this but um proposed hours of operation if you already mentioned it I apologize but Monday through Saturday 10:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. yep and then Sunday 12:00 P.M to 6 PM yes okay so Saturday excuse me Saturday is not going to be six hours Saturday is going to be 12 yes suay six by I I that's I think that's consistent again with the ordinance with the ordinance permits um if it doesn't we obviously will comply with the ordinance which is nice on a Sunday because you have a chance to do inventory counts you have a chance to clean like do deep cleanings in the in the store on those um you know while you're not serving customers we we can be doing some of those other functions on a Sunday so um this is as a Mr Cole's report and it was noted as a possible variance um we're we're suggesting it's not can you talk about the um odor mitigation measures on the property yeah you know we're we're uh we're not too concerned about odor in general I mean we're going to have our HVAC systems that are filtered we'll be uh utilizing HEPA filtration uh in the facility just for you know qu uh air quality in general for our customers and staff um but all product in New Jersey has to come prepackaged so there'll be no opening of products we we're not intending to display any uh jars or products that are open in cases of any kind that would um you know cause of an odor so that's a nice piece I I feel of the New Jersey regulations is you don't have the deli style serving that is present in some other states where you have big jars and you're opening them and you know filling uh containers so everything is really simple it's all prepackaged and uh really doesn't create an odor that would uh leave the facility and then of course one of the concerns would be and this has already been spoken to but one of the concerns would be that odor is obviously generated from on-site consumption so just uh just to clarify absolutely no on-site consumption is permitted that's correct and we'll have signage uh in the store and externally and our you know receptionist and and Leadership that's there is going to and make sure that customers aren't consuming in their cars so that'll be uh you know a consistent uh operating procedure for us to make sure that customers don't purchase and in consum on site um any signs for that yeah I think we're going to have some signs for that yep that's no consumption in addition to the no loitering I think it's appropriate for us just to have that sign posted on the exterior and then we'll probably have that posted you know close to the exit so if you I just wanted to correct Rocco um the stat the customers won't be exiting uh out the same vesle they're actually be exiting out of a middle vesle so you you come in through the front VES vle but you exit out a so it's a little bit better for flow people aren't running into each other in the vesle so we'll probably post some signage in here perhaps on the door right here before they exit to you know remind them of there's no consumption onice for the record Mr bar was referencing the architectural floor plans um so we spoke about security um well at least with respect to a security guard can you talk about some of the other um security measures that are uh going to be put in place on the property yeah we'll have um both surveillance and access controls so we'll have cameras that uh have to cover 100% of the floor space uh you can't have any blind spots uh for the state regulators and also externally uh out outdoor cameras that are looking at uh the site and uh again you can't have any blind spots you have to be able to see your entire property um and so that's going to be requ re for us to get our State Licensing so that's a big piece of uh the crc's on-site investigations before they provide us the final license is the security uh inspection so they'll go through our camera systems we'll make sure that the placements are appropriate um we also have to have 30 days of uh video storage uh we'll have that both on site and in in the cloud so that you can reference any of the surveillance footage also Access Control between uh rooms uh especially on the employee side actually specifically on the employee side where staff will have badges and so we can monitor their movement throughout the employee areas so that if you ever do have a theft of any kind internally uh or there's any issues uh we have record of who's accessing what rooms also c um customers that are visiting the store won't be able to get to the the employee area so there's a barrier here where you have the sales counter and the door so there's not obviously permit any customers to be in this restricted area so those are essentially the security measures that we have to follow so is it fair to St fair to say for the benefit of the board that this operation will never be able to operate unless the state uh determines that the security measures on the property are in conformance with the state requirements yep and then um is there a mechanism in place for the state to monitor to ensure that you are continuing uh with those security measures in place yeah they'll be able to access our camera footage and we also if um the Burrow's police department wants access to those uh cameras we can provide them access to the camera systems as well um but you know what I've experienced actually in other states is that uh the camera placement on the exterior of this property uh is um strong and actually helps other property owners when it comes to Crime I've we've I've had this happen in other instances where we've had we've had other crimes that have been committed you know in and about the area that the law enforcement has come to us and ask for our footage so I think there's some positives to this type of use and the type of uh surveillance that's going to be um on site so I'm going to just ask you a couple questions about the curbside operations but before I do so you spoke about six to seven employees on the property at one time which leaves approximately 13 to 14 spaces um just in your experience in this industry with an operation of this size do you think that 14 spaces is enough are enough parking spaces yeah for for customers yeah I think uh our business model and I think a lot of stores uh not just Cannabis stores business models changed after covid um and I think customers in general are um used to using uh you know pre-ordering and curbside and people want to get in and out uh so that is our model uh so weight you know typical weight times across the industry if you look at you know cannabis data that's out there is about a seven to eight minute visit so if you're over that you typically have a problem right you're either not staffed appropriately or there's something you know going on with your operation you you typically want to you know be able to serve customers quickly and then move on to the next customer and create a good experience a convenient experience for folks so it's usually seven or eight customers um seven eight minutes I'm sorry seven or eight minutes per customer so at 350 customers a day you know we should be consistently in like the four customer range that are on site at any one time we'll have some overlap and some Rush rushes but there shouldn't be you know uh we should be able to manage the uh the customer load with the 14 spaces and your intention is to offer at some point or even from the from the start you want to offer curbside uh operations at that property yeah we we'd like to but we we'd like to do it without designating a spot since we do have few uh so few spots at at the the site um you know 20 well we have 20 but you know they're uh they're really important for us you know if we do have some rushes right um that we can accommodate everybody um so we'd rather not designate curbside but there are software programs now with pre-ordering where you can identify what vehicle if you are curbside ordering what vehicle what your license plate number is so we can see out there who has ordered curbside and our staff can actually go to them without designating a spot um because a lot of the times you see that at you know ret centers now you have three or four or five curbside spots that nobody parks at right so we're trying to get away from that just have some flexibility um just that leads me to my next question so you already stated that you don't think there's any parking concerns but if there happen to be you think the curb side operations would help um a pun intend curb any of those concerns yeah I mean yeah yeah they're they're typically faster right you know they they notify you through the app when they arrive our our staff received that they can go immediately out there they can verify age they can verify um you know the identity of the customer and then go back inside and fulfill the order so it's really actually even faster than that seven or eight minutes typically um so yes I think that's going to be a good function for us um there's a lot more operational questions that I could ask I I think that our time would be best spent if if the board wanted to ask any lingering questions question they may have as it relates to operations yeah anybody have any questions I think you just answered mine I was doing math up here while you were talking and so it seems like it would be about five people on average and how long they would be in the store was my question like if I was someone who was going to come into the store and wasn't using the technology how long would that person kind of stay about about seven or eight minutes because you know we're going to have close to to one you know um ratio with our sales associates that are going to be working in the front so customers that just want to come in and go right to the counter and talk to somebody it's not going to be a long wait for them um but uh you know we're not a sensory store so I think that that turns kind of used in in the business sometimes uh you know it's our store isn't really meant to browse you know we don't have that much space more like a pharmacy yeah so it's just a convenience store type of model where we can you know that's that's the the value ad that we're providing our customers is they can get in and get out um you know we're going to have a great e-commerce experience for them and we're gonna have great value of products right so we're not you know we we're we're not built to be a browsable store so that typically just drops your weight times down anyway people are coming in they're going right to our you know kiosks or right to the sales associates and they're just ordering off the menia um so it's typically pretty quick and you might not be able to answer this but as you were talking about the the service and checking ID what happens if there's underage people in that car with the person dropping up the you know that's a good question I'm not exactly sure but as long as the transaction is with someone that's over 21 and specific for them I think that's okay but I would have to uh ask uh our compliance office there's a lot of high schools along that route so yeah you know um it's a good question maybe if it there is a you know a parent or has that doesn't want to leave their child in the car when they need to to you know run an errand just like they would other stores they'll do a curb side so I don't anticipate that being an issue with the CRC that's something that we can look into so so for the people watching um can you just talk a little bit about when somebody actually goes into the store they go into the vestibule what happens what is that process to gain entry into the retail area sure so um I'll just walk you through it here um on the floor plan so customers would be coming in this way we're going to have a security VES reception vble right here they'll go up to that counter um they'll present their IDs to the staff member there staff member will verify that what's an acceptable ID uh state driver's license state ID it doesn't have to be New Jersey it could be any you know legal form of ID so passport um state ID are they are they scanned or is it just a visual yeah we can scan them actually into our POS system so that's what we will do we'll scan them barcode them and then they go into Q for our POS system so there'll be a computer um station here and then that's where they get checked in and then and then they can enter the store is that is that vesle area locked until the security is completed so they can't gain access until it's actually been formally verified right yeah so and that's the reason that we have a different exit door is so that somebody that's purchased isn't going out of the same area so you know s of sneak in uh to the door unauthorized so yeah so the security um staff member will be able to electronically like open it's like an electronic strip and then they'll be able to go in the sales floor here um on the sales floor we will have displays kind of on the exterior here so they'll Beed uh display areas and Merchandising and stuff it's not you know robust but you know people if they want to go kind of see what brands and products are there they can look around you know they'll get around the room in you know 30 seconds pretty much but um otherwise they'll be able to go up to like a self sered kiosk and so it'll be you know a kiosk stand and then you can scroll through and and order the product and look at the menu um and then as soon as you're done placing your order that will go back here to the staff um and upstairs and depending on the order and uh you know how we kind of move that ticket you know based on Flow and whatnot that that order will be fulfilled um so in a pre-order in a kiosk mode we'll have our customers waiting over here in this this area it'll be identified that this is a pre-order and a self order area staff will fill there'll be par level inventory back here so purchase products the staff that's working back here will be able to fulfill that right on the spot um if it's not available here on the power level we'll have inventory Specialists that you know can fulfill the same order upstairs and there'll just be a communication how long would that take to have the order upstairs F oh it's going to be quick because our inventory specials will be up there with computer access and security monitors and they'll know who's in the store and you know what they're going to be responsible for as far as fulfillment so you know they're going to have the same inventory for the most part that they have back here so we can fulfill orders in either area just depending on how we want to sta it and what the flow is that we decide um otherwise a customer that doesn't want to use the pre-order kiosks or the uh the e-commerce function in our POS system they could just come right up to a staff member talk to the staff member um and then that staff member can help them through the order asking them you know what are they looking for how much do they want to spend what are they trying to treat that those kind of conversations and you know find a product for so there'll be a couple staff members here and then we'll fulfill pre-orders this side so so like a number of other very heavily regulated Industries in New Jersey because it's New Jersey and we regulate everything um you you'll comply um with all of the uh cannabis uh statutes rules regulations in order to operate your business absolutely okay yeah and it's we we have like very strict um Inventory management systems that are connected to the state that all of our very similar to a pharmacy where you can you know do a product recall recall and then the traceability of that specific product and go all the way back to the manufacturer Andor the plant that that product came from and that happens you know there are recalls that happen right but you know all of this inventory is is tracked both in our Point of Sales system and the state database they actually talk to each other there's um you know there's a connection between the two an API like in real time basically so but after you uh purchase uh you'll pay um you you'll grab your product and exit out the building and you don't you don't track who buys what correct the point of sales system and the metric system does track that because there are purchasing limits um for for customers so you can only purchase a certain amount um off the top of my head I can't remember what that is I should be able to recite that but can't remember what that is right at the moment but there's a certain number of grams per product line that you're allowed to purchase and once you reach that limit then the actual uh inventory system won't let you uh execute that is that just in your shop or is that a networked system within the state that's the entire State okay thank you um your C side do they they be ordering before they got to the facility or would they be ordered because you said the person would come outside check their ID then go back inside put the product together and come back outside you said would be a quicker process than going inside well if they if they haven't pre-ordered and they just park and then order it might take a little bit longer than that but what I've found is that most of the curbside orders the just pre-orders that people that don't want to go inside so they typically already had their order in in the system but so there's a way that I can go on my phone and go to your site and order whatever it is that I want to order come there then your person comes outside checks all of my ID yep goes back inside and conceivably the is just Pi up the bag exactly it's already been kind of uh the package has been created in there and just not sealed and final uh sale uh processed so so it'll be prepared for them so it's fast um and they didn't preorder it could take more time coming into the store where you said only seven minutes it could it could therefore you could have several cars waiting cures it could but we just don't see that many curbside orders to be honest with you and people that wait out there and then order typically uh customers are getting pretty Savvy with like the e-commerce platforms now so they're they're almost always pre-ordering um but that could happen where there's somebody's parked out there hasn't come inside but that'll be something that we'll kind of deal with a case by casee basis hopefully somebody's not waiting out there for a long period of time if there is somebody that's waiting in the parking lot that hasn't come in you know we need to be aware of that from a security standpoint as well so we'll be thinking about those instances but it's going to be um you know pretty infrequent that a customer will sit there order and and then um uh we fulfill it after that so that would be a little bit longer transaction so you've had curbside service in other places that You' work yes and you haven't had any instances where that poor little employee is running the drugs out and gets intercepted by somebody in the parking I I haven't personally I'm not sure if that has happened it probably has at some point but not in any of the businesses that I was a part of I haven't had that happen and I think this honestly pretty safe area um it's it's nice to be right off the highway here it's going to be well lit um you know there's not a lot of areas to hide here so I think this is a relatively um you know safe location so I don't have a lot of concerns about that you know we got so many cameras out there too that you know it's it's probably not the best place to try to you know just steal from the parking lot you know but um I mean it could happen but is many customers going the at one time or seven can have people ins you know I think they'll probably be a fire code related uh concern there I'm not sure exactly how many we're going to be allowed by fire code um but no we don't want to overwhelm our staff and just let everybody back there so if we for some reason were kind of slammed then you know we're that's going to be the resp responsibility of the receptionist to queue uh customers to go in the back yeah so that we don't kind of feel overwhelmed back there anybody else I just had a couple um your Vault will be uh fixed either the wall or the floor correct accordance with the CRC requirements yeah actually what we're going to do is you don't necessarily have to have a physical ball you can reinforce these walls or cage them so it's kind of of open so we'll probably we're going to look at Cost associated with either caging this enti area so you walk in and then you have to access it through a cage so it's kind of an extra layer of protection or just reinforcing these walls with like steel plating so both of those are acceptable to the CRC okay um it's good question you stumping me there um o yeah you know that hatch that Rocco was talking about I'm gonna secure that that's for but um you know it's a good question but we certainly when it's a cage there is a there's a ceiling on that c typically so I do believe we would have to have the ceiling um taken care of and depending on what materials are used on the um the floor we probably do need to secure that but I think it' be pretty difficult to access it from bottom I think it's much more likely try to come top but yeah we we'll certainly look at that make sure that we meet all the state requirements yeah because you're not going to get your final license or or anything from the state unless it completely complies right and so the way that the state process works is um we're we're essentially like pre-approved but they're not going to give you a license until they physically inspect the building um so we're all vetted on the front end and then they say build the building and then we'll come back back and we'll inspect it so that's kind of the stage we're getting close to right now with our State Licensing is we're going to get in investigative phase um and then um will'll be passed on to the compliance department and then the compliance department will say go ahead and build it this is what you got to do here are the things that we need to communicate about in the meantime here are the uh the checklists that you need to to follow when we're there these are the things that we're going to be talking about so that kind of thing um and then they'll do a physical inspection after that physical inspection uh we you know cure any deficiencies that they may find in the audit um and then uh once they're satisfied with that they'll approve us and then we get into Q to be issued our what they call our metric ID number so that's like our state database inventory tracking number we're going to need that before we can even order product from other manufacturers and cultivators so it's quite the process but we're in Q could you just quickly go through the delivery of the product and then what happens how long the product's kept on site and then what happens to the unused product just so they understand we know it can't be just thrown in the garbage there's very specific regulations for that as well yeah so I'll just reference a so this loading zone here so all of our you know product deliveries will be really be prior to business hours at 8 AM to 10 a.m. window it won't be a problem for us to schedule that with the secure Transporters you typically you know are telling them well in advance uh and scheduling those trips of when you need product to arrive and coordinating that with the the manufacturers and the cultivators that you're purchasing from um so they'll they'll pull up here there's usually two um security personnel with that delivery truck um they'll bring a product in the front front door we'll receive it there'll be a um you know a manifest that we'll check and verify that the product that we ordered is what is arrived we'll do a count we'll sign off on it and then they go about their way and then we'll take that product up to the Vault and we'll inventory it and then store it um think your question about unused or expired product uh in this day uh we we are permitted to destroy that have the ability on site to do that if we have to typically you have to mix it with some type of you know grease or like a kitty litter or like some type of organic like soil and you mix it a 5050 blend and then you can uh dispose of it in the normal trash but that's not typically what we're going to do we kind of put that burden back on the cultivators and manufacturers we can actually send that back to them to destroy so we're really not going to be doing that here even though the state allows us to destroy product if we need to but typically we would send that back to the manufacturer um and for them to deal with and they would you know provide us you know remuneration for you know any expired products so replace those products um Etc but you know if we have that that's kind of a big inventory operation procedur is to make sure you have you don't have expiring product right so that's you know it's on us to to manage for that but typically if products are you old and they're being sold usually we're not carry anymore right so um but that that is something that we deal with on a basis but so we don't intend to you know destroy product here but we do have the ability to if we need it to but just answer your question okay yep absolutely because I would just say that if you do have product you know this is going to be a secured um trash receptacle but I mean people still try to you know they have gotten you know tried to get in there and other you know operations have been involv so you definely want minimize and then just one last question your security that's going to be in the front do you anticipate them having a police or security type of background or haven't you gotten to that point yet you know we haven't got to that point yet we're going to evaluate whether to hire that security Personnel internally or uh um contract with a third party security firm and also whether we're going to have armed or unarmed or like non-lethal kind of means for that security person uh I'm leaning towards we we actually hire them in house there then our there are staff members and not they're you know working with a third party on that we just have our security team that are trained to be both receptionists and security staff members so that we have somebody consistent there um but uh we're gonna I think we're going to make that decision a little bit later Downstream but but I think we're going to you know encourage uh it's our ention for them to be a uniform security okay uh staff member I have just receive a text from someone who's watching this on TV so what they're saying is that they can't hear you so would you have your Witnesses speaking in the microphone yeah thanks um you know what why don't if you if this is on why don't we have two two microphones it's on right yeah that should be on ah yep perfect it's on but it's spot oh there we go thank you use the stand just use the just turn it towards him okay there you go and then tilt it [Music] down thank you thanks any more questions now that we've done that now that we're to the end and everybody can hear at home all right if we have no more questions um you have more witnesses I I do there's just one thing that I wanted to say while uh while Mr Bar's up here so you you spoke with um the construction official in summer uh back in late February um about keeping the tanks in the ground at the gas station during the construction timeline process yeah so it's something I wanted to bring up to the board not because I think that it's um it it was a suggestion from the construction official that we just say this to to the planning board that during the construction timeline and with working with the uh with the burrow Mr Cole and uh construction official that the gas station uh the intention is to have the gas station in operation while the addition is being added to the building so the construction timeline would go essentially the improvements to the building and then the gas infrastructure would be taken out um the construction official asked that I uh represent that to the board so but they would the tanks would be taken out yes it's just it's just a matter of similarly to the convenience store at the Soka was being renovated the gas station would remain in operation um while the while the renovations were were taking place so and we can we think we can do that safely uh we're going to consult with our you know contractors to make sure that's the case but we just think it was you know financially prudent it's going to take a while you know for us to to build this and renovate especially the interior there a lot of finishes so there's going to be a lot of interior work um that that's done so you know we working with the building o uh owner the property owner we just thought it was appropriate and they had asked if uh that was possible uh we think it's possible so we just you know would like um you know to work through that with the building officials and if we can do it safely yeah I I don't see a problem with that as long as you can do it yeah I I don't have a problem with it so so essentially the the canopy and the tanks would come out last and then we do the parking lot right so we' try to get everything else done and that would kind of be the last part of the construction schedule is uh doing though landscaping and yeah exactly okay sorry just one more that you sparked my question uh are you purchasing the property or you're going to be a a tenant of the property for the foreseeable future initially we're going to be a tenant but uh we do have uh an agreement in our lease that we can purchase it So eventually we'd like to own it um but uh you know we're we're going to get started with a lease great thank you okay thanks thank you and uh I don't know if you know this Mr chairman but do you know if the public can hear from home home now that the mic's been moved assume okay assume they can I just was I don't know if they can but I don't know either I haven't received any more texts all right well let us know if there you have another text coming in um you have anything else you want to add great okay thank you so I'm going to call our our Final witness which is our traffic expert hi Miss Dolan if you wouldn't mind putting your educational bra of credentials on the record uh before the board sure uh Elizabeth Betsy Dolan from Dolan and Dean here in Somerville New Jersey I have a bachelor's science degree in civil engineering from reders I'm a licensed professional engineer registered in New Jersey and neighboring states my New Jersey license was just renewed so it is in good standing I've been at this traffic engineering since uh 1986 38 years and during that time I've had the opportunity to testify in over 250 municipalities ities throughout New Jersey and I also regularly review traffic parking and Dot aspects of applications on behalf of planning and zoning boards uh Gary Dean my partner is usually before you but uh it's my turn tonight to be in Somerville so okay we will accept her thank you you so miss Dolan um you're obviously familiar with the property yes and you either prepared or or supervised the report um from your firm dated December mber 11 2023 yes and can you kind of walk the board through this report absolutely uh the report that's been submitted is a a standard traffic impact analysis and it focuses on the weekday morning and weekday evening Peak periods of traffic as well as Saturday midday uh the traditional uh Peak periods for analysis are 7 to n on a weekday morning 4 to 6:30 on a weekday evening and 11: to 1 or 2:00 middle of the day on Saturday um and while you did hear testimony that this dispensary will not be open during the morning peak hour for the purposes of making sure we don't uh trigger any dot uh uh permitting and just to isolate that uh morning Peak period as well as the evening and Saturday Peak periods We performed counts at the um site driveway uh intersections the two driveways along eastbound uh Route 22 and then the driveway on North uh Gaston that's opposite at the Valero driveway so we counted that as a four- leg intersection um and captured the lefts and rights into uh the site driveway in the Valero across the street so those counts were performed uh back in uh November Thursday November 2nd from 7 to 9 4 to 6:30 and then that following Saturday November 4th from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and the report summarizes on table one the existing peak hour traffic volumes that we recorded entering and exiting visting the sooko gas station uh traffic reports uh traffic impact studies typically focus on peak hours that's the a time frame when site traffic and Street traffic uh simultaneously Peaks and then other hours are comparable in volume or lower so we're assessing basically the the worst case or busiest hours uh the existing sinoco uh is underperforming by uh traffic engineering standards I'm sure you've heard a lot about the Institute of Transportation engineers and the trip generation manual that's the manual that we use to forecast trips for New Uses uh but the existing sinoco during the morning peak hour 29 entering 28 exiting uh vehicles in one hour evening peak hour 24 entering 23 exiting and then the Saturday peak hour we had 19 entering and 24 exiting so in in total the busiest peak hour is less than 60 trips inbound and outbound it's the total trips whereas the industry standards would indicate that this site with a small convenience store should be doing upwards of 140 150 trips uh per hour so that's you know 70 75 entering and exiting in one hour and the reason I bring that just to to the board's um attention is because it does come into play with the dot permitting analysis and I know there's some interest in in the possibility of what what happens with do driveways here so the existing sonoa we counted it and then we we as I said we used the Institute of Transportation Engineers data for dispensaries they do have that in their last two um releases the last two additions do include um CA cannabis dispensary and based on the size um of the building the um morning peak hour activity would be limited and again I'm giving you these numbers more so because of the the do um aspect that I'll talk to later we we understand that this site will not be open during the morning peak hour which is about 7:30 to 8:30 um it would indicate it would be low volume anyway about 14 cars would come in and come out in in one period and the evening would be busier of course with 24 entering and exiting and then Saturday the busiest 37 cars entering and exiting for a total of 74 so the reason I give you these totals is so you have a understanding of the um order of magnitude of the increase or decrease in peak hour trip generation and the site won't be open during the morning peak hour whether you look at the it numbers or not so we've got a we've got a a reduction in traffic during the morning Peak period um and virtually the same volume as projected for the evening peak hour and a slight increase of about 30 trips during the Saturday peak hour um that type of increase is not considered significant significant is defined in the state highway access management code as 100 or more trips in a peak hour uh we're looking at 31 new trips in a peak hour so we we're well below that threshold that dot defines us significant um and it means that if we don't modify the driveways we don't need a new access permit from NJ doot um The Institute of Transportation Engineers it also provides guidance on when full traffic impact studies are appropriate and that 100 uh trip per hour comes up again uh so this is again it's not considered significant uh it's not uh likely to change the operational characteristics of the site driveways and certainly won't impact the the the corridor on Route 22 and have little uh or no uh change in operational characteristics along Gaston Avenue nevertheless to prove that and to show that there is not a a negative impact we went through a a formal analysis of adding that additional uh dispensary traffic to the site system and analyzing the site driveway uh system along the adjacent roadway Network eastbound Route 22 and North Gaston uh we added background traffic growth consistent with um the U again the uh do the access code parameters uh we took a slight credit for for what we call pass by trips um and you heard Mr bar talk about capturing some traffic on Route 22 uh much the way the gas stations and and fast food restaurants and other convenience uses like to locate on busy streets it's because they to a certain degree will capture traffic already passing by in the form of pass by trips um so we're looking at you know while there might be a total of 37 Vehicles during the busiest peak hour visiting the site approximately 12 of them might come from the flow already passing by so that further diminishes the new impact during the busiest peak hour to only 25 vehicles or or 50 trips um with and that's without taking credit for the gas station trips so what is this mean to driveway operations well when we when we look at the movements entering and exiting the gas station and we've talked a little bit about the driveway configuration we've got an inbound driveway and an out bound driveway and then a full movement driveway on on Gaston separate inbound and outbound driveways on on um on Route 22 and if you were to look at figure two of our report it shows that the majority of traffic coming to the gas station turns right into the site at the Western driveway on Route 22 and then the Eastern driveway on Route 22 is seeing Zero or maybe one Vehicles use that driveway to exit to 22 uh the the folks that want to return to eastbound 22 are turning essentially left out onto Gaston and then coming up to uh the Stop Bar and then making that right turn on eastbound Route 22 um and and that volume uh ranges from Seven Vehicles turning left out to 15 Vehicles turning left out in the busiest peak hour um and so when we look at a future condition and and modeling the um the trips for the dispensary we're looking at 10 to 28 lefts coming out of the site uh headed back to eastbound Route 22 uh and up to some some sorry 36 vehicles coming in um as a right turn from Route 22 uh there's not much traffic entering the site from uh the South coming up Gaston Avenue Northbound and turning left in and I think that that's a somewhat self- policing type of movement and if you look at the other uh parallel roads uh bridge and Grove to the West um and I know I use Bridge all the time it's much easier to enter over the Route 22 eastbound flow because you've got that um sort of Axel um Lane there uh so I would think that unless you were living in the area immediately south of uh the site west of Gaston Avenue and north of I guess it would be spring you would be inclined to access the site from further west from some of the other north south roadways and so we took into consideration the existing flow and the existing access configuration and we used that to model the slight increase in in site traffic um and we found that the operational levels would would be comparable to what they are now there's no question that when you leave the site and try to get onto Route 22 not just peak hours but throughout many hours of the day it's tough to do but there are gaps um and it's um we're looking at level of service C to exit back out onto the highway and that's considered acceptable during Peak periods and we've got levels of Service A and B for the movements um at G the Gaston Avenue driveway so I know that there's interest and concern in the configuration of the driveways um and I think uh Craig Styers had had mentioned that we did request accident reports from January 2020 through now um and we were provided two reports uh one was a driver who lost control along the site Frontage um and the other was someone who was on the property at the gas station and backed into a customer that came in so neither of them had to do with the access configuration or the intersection configuration um and of course the the the big item here is as I said dot we're not doing anything with the site Redevelopment to trigger the need for a new access permit and while this is a somewhat outdated access configuration it hasn't proven to be unsafe there's not uh repeated accidents associated with the configuration um and actually the Valero driveway that we counted is is seeing more turning movements into and out of Gaston Avenue than the um than the existing uh um sonoko um and really comparable to or or um higher than what we're projecting for the dispensary um for example during the evening peak hour the projected left turn out from the dispensary is 18 compared with 26 exiting the Valero and and 44 entering the Valero um and during the uh Saturday peak hour we've got 28 lefts out of the dispensary compared with 15 out of Valero and 30 uh into Valero so while it's certainly not a um current design standard it is part of the Route 22 Corridor and um the we don't need to go to do and we prefer obviously not to go to do uh and considering that the volumes are comparable I think that um we we've shown that the access configuration can continue to support a convenience type of use at this location I could just ask one question about that um you're are you familiar with the ml notice requirements for an application generally speaking so um and if you know this just tell me but um would it surprise you to know or if you know again tell me that the applicant had the notice for this application to the do yes yes so so my question is the dot did receive notice of this of this land use application they are aware of it they could have they they could have and there for a while they were issuing letters advising the boards and the applicants that hey please review the access code parameters to determine if you require a new permit well as I've stated here the big test is whether or not there's a sign significant increase in traffic and there's not and we're not altering the driveways um which means no construction in the state highway RightWay so those would be the triggers that do would have um us look at as the applicant and the board's Professionals of course on behalf of the board and the municipality so without a trigger it's it would be uncommon for an applicant to go to the dot outside of providing them the standard mlul notice that's correct yeah because there is no um requirement to um show them you don't need a permit There's an opportunity to uh request a letter of no interest but that is not a requirement of the access code thank you um I think the other uh part we want to talk about a little bit is parking and you've you've heard about the the parking um from from Mr bar in terms of operation uh we've been um handling a lot of applications and um we've we've been looking at uh 15 minutes as a turnover uh for a more conservative assessment even though it's maybe eight minutes or call it 10 but the math is easy if you use um 15 minutes because that means each parking space can turn over four times in an hour um so even if we had 10 parking spaces available for customers that would you could accommodate 40 uh customers in an hour um I explained that we're looking at 37 at um peak hour on Saturday uh so um Mr bar said you know 14 would certainly be sufficient and that's sort of the the number of spaces 11 12 14 or so that we're seeing in a lot of these applications for dispensaries 2,000 3,000 square feet um a lot of or some of the um applications we L are for example Banks being retrofitted for um dispensary use and they may have 30 or 40 parking spaces but they're not needed uh for this size uh and and location I would think that the 20 spaces would more than satisfy the customer demand in addition to the six or seven employees that may be there um and assuming again that they all Drive um so from from our experience with other dispensaries and even if you look at the Again The Institute is transportation Engineers they do have some um information with regard to dispensaries and their numbers would come out at 14 spaces so um I I I think that it's a a comfortable supply for this use a couple of questions to follow up on that then I wanted to go back to um Gast and ab um so I think you're touching upon this but obviously cannabis dispensaries are are new in New Jersey so do you feel comfortable BAS B upon the number of applications you've worked on and the sample size that's found in the 11th edition of the it manual um this is we referring to land use number 882 um you feel comfortable that the sample size is large enough um to support your testimony that there's enough parking on the property I I think that it is I if I recall it may be 11 or 12 uh samples I'm not recalling that number specifically but the important part to note is that some of those um it data points were sites in New Jersey and the New Jersey sites had much higher parking demand I know Woodbridge was crazy uh with the parking demand until um the medical until the recreational um was permitted and with more sites coming um becoming available to to the New Jersey residents um it's the the parking and the intensity or the trip generation is reducing so I think there's a conservative element to those it dispensary parking ratios so it's it's fair to say as this use becomes more standardized throughout the state that any parking concerns are being minimized over time just be just because of the volume of locations available to Consumers that's right it's not the only game in town and I I remember when Sonic came to New Jersey there was a a site on Route 17 in Bergen County and police had to get involved and people were queuing out on to the highway it was the only one at least in North Jersey there could have been one in South Jersey um and so I think there was something in Mr Cole's letter about if there's a a surge of activity particularly grand opening type of thing we would want to work with the police department uh so that we would minimize or or not have those types of things but I don't see that happening uh because there are other dispensaries in the area um a few in in this area and I know by me live in Fanwood there's there's three on 22 uh in Scotch Plains and then another one in planfield right next to Fanwood so uh it's not the only game in town it's not the only proposed dispensary in in this area so I I don't think we're going to have that type of activity um and that's following Mr Bar's uh testimony as well he's not looking at uh an overcrowded parking lot and and for the boards board's benefit they obviously is a uh similar cannabis dispensary already in existence in Ran burrow not too far away that's right 202 so of course this won't be the only the only shop in town that's right or I guess literally it'll I don't know if there's another uh dispensery in Summerville I don't believe there is um just turning to uh Mr Fischer's letter um and uh I'm going back to the use of North Gaston Avenue right we spoke about this um this afternoon but are you aware that the um that the board had the opportunity to consider potential traffic concerns back in 20 4 as it relates to North Gaston Avenue and this site yes I learned about that today okay and there were there were concerns raised in that report and I guess my question to you since 2014 you've already touched upon this but based upon the accident history do you think that that that demonstrates that the access um from North Gaston Avenue to the site is adequately safe I I believe that the accident history does prove the point but I would also go back to again figure two I think that this is a bit self- policing um because if you look at the the the numbers that we counted and I've isolated the peak hour volumes in this report but we counted other you know two hour two and a half hour uh Windows um there's there's hardly anyone that turns left into this site from North Gaston and I think that speaks to the proximity and the fact that we've got sort of a grid system uh to the southwest of this site that allows other opportunities to travel up to the Route 22 Corridor and then access the site which is why the predominant Ingress movement is along eastbound Route 22 and into the site so I I would consider this to be self- policing and in this case this site is accessible by other north south roadways in the community aside from Gaston Avenue so um that being said plus the fact that um it it seems to be a much easier maneuver to exit left and then come up to the Stop Bar and then enter onto Route uh 22 which is why you don't see many people using the easterly driveway on Route 22 you sort of have to cross that widened diesel Lane to enter the lane um it's a much easier maneuver to to come across Gaston Avenue okay okay and then if you touched on this I apologize just for my own edification um when you're assessing sight line and you are speaking about a deceleration Lane what what what it would be standard because obviously the and correct if I'm wrong the sight line uh the necessary distance uh required is different when you're in a deceleration Lane versus not acceleration L well you you definitely want to have a minimum of stopping sight distance which is going to be on the order of 500 feet here um it in this particular configuration I think it's that you're Crossing more pavement as opposed to um having the the um the site distance but I would say that coming out of the site onto um East I'm sorry Gaston Avenue turning but you still have the line of sight to see the vehicles that are coming from 22 turning right onto Gaston and that number is consistently about 200 to 25 per hour thank you you're welcome I don't have any but I'm sure there's questions okay Mr chairman in the board anybody have any questions Larry go ahead okay so um can you talk a little bit is do you have accident data regarding that left turn leftand turn movement across Gaston Avenue onto the 22 acceleration Lane so we asked d uh do no we asked Somerville and Bridgewater police departments we submitted Oprah requests for both so that we would any accidents at our site driveways in the intersection the only reports that Somerville provided were the two that I mentioned one person lost control of their vehicle another person was a customer at the gas station and backed out of the pump area into another so it didn't involve that turn it didn't involve that turn and when we submitted the um applica I'm sorry the Oprah request to Bridgewater we got an email back saying that it was not their jurisdiction it was Somerville so we had specifically requested we always request at least three years so we requested January 2020 to present day okay and then in the letter it it states any accidents that occurred entering and exiting the site would likely involve the Bridgewater police and use the Township's resources at the expense of taxpayers but that's currently the condition as it stands now that's my understanding yeah okay um and if if Somerville were to restrict movement if this body were to restrict movement onto Gaston Avenue that would increase traffic in Somerville because the really the only way to to then get back out to Route 22 would be to go all the way down to Union or Williams and pull urn and well or pull a U-turn in in in one of our neighborhoods go around the block go around the block well the block is 28 uh quarter mile down the road and then you have to come down Union and back up uh Grove OR or out will or actually down William out to Grove or down Union all the way out to Adamsville Adamsville that's not a reasonable no and as I said I think based on my review of the counts this seems to be a self- policing issue um and recognizing again that we it's not an exact grid system but you have a nice roadway Network um adjacent to this location where there's Grove and bridge that I think bridge by far is the easiest to get on to 22 eastbound um as opposed to trying to um you know and and that is also a pre-existing condition on the the uh Eastern gas station site where that movement can turn onto Gaston Avenue that's right right and we valo yes the Valero yeah and and for analytical purposes we did count that we you know it's basically the gas station is opposite the Valero station so analytically you look at it as a four- leg intersection so we counted all of that and that's where I was able to tell you about the the lefts and rights coming out of that site as well okay thank you you're welcome Larry um I I heard what you said about the studies and stuff coming out to gu but for practical purposes we all drive through I've never had an accident lot of almost people not ption coming out or us exit Lan from 22 to cut to Valero going to their drive so there's a lot of movements and if you're in that gas Avenue driveway and you're out on the street you can't see a car coming around the corner necessarily at faster than they should be the speed liit should be 2 that corner they're not well I'm just saying practical purposes sure and and I I think that um and somebody mentioned Co earlier I think it was Mr bar I I travel 22 between Fanwood and Somerville almost every day and the things I see and the driver Behavior I I it blows my mind um and so you know we're we're looking at this particular site and and the numbers here and I know it's like I said it's not the the current design but 22 has really really um some very interesting engineering along its Corridor if you think about it um and so um while we would never design this today we've done everything that we're supposed to do to make sure that we can continue with this driveway system and as I said I I find some a certain comfort in the the roadway system I'll say um south and west of this site because it gives the drivers Alternatives um and the the Route 22 East um you know that that that's the easiest maneuver here um for for for this site the left out to Gaston to get to 22 eastbound I suppose that I know it's easier but it's I would say somewhat comparable to the movement you were saying uh people turn off onto Gaston Avenue and then cut across into Valero they like to do that better than continue past Gast and and turn in so the the good news is um the traffic on Gaston it may sound high but when you compare it of course with 22 it's it's it's really not when it's you know 200 240 vehicles in the busiest hours turning right or southbound onto Gaston and about 140 during the busiest hours coming Northbound onto 22 so while there's a little bit of you know spaghetti or weaving there vehicle weaving across uh the site Frontage and the Valero Frontage um it's it seems to be working and I think people um they they don't have to go to those gas stations but they choose to and they make it work same thing people don't have to go to the proposed dispensary they do have other options but they also have options of getting here from different different um travel paths we also have that same situation by that same weird oh yeah the gas station it's just that's really rough over there it's the nature of the Beast Alpha 22 I I have a question and you may not know this off the top of your head but I would be very curious to know what the the traffic volumes are on Grove Street and North Bridge Street yeah I don't have those and it's funny because as I was you know prepping for this I I kind of looked through some of the dot we don't have anything in our database so I don't I don't have have that no okay there are times when I sit for five minutes at the end of my driveway on Grove Street Grove is tough uh you know and that's I I said I I I leave here you know between four and six most weekdays and Bridge for me is the easiest because you do have that Axel diesel but you need to know how to drive it and if sometimes somebody will stop there they don't understand that they're supposed to get in and make that weaving move and then you get five six seven cars and then the hor horns start bling I was just curious as to whether or not we could make a comparison yeah make a comparison there anybody else have any questions if not I will open it up to the public if I could just ask very quickly I just had um something just jogged my mind but I was just wondering did did your firm ever work on any applications with the Valero station um we we may be working on one but if I did not Gary may have okay I don't recall okay yeah I don't I don't know if it would surprise you that Gary had mentioned that he was working on a Valero application or um I guess my question you is that if there was an application um for the Valero uh station in Bridgewater the applicant there and the township could also approach the dot for the same um deceleration Lane correct sure if there anytime there's a you know a a um a site Redevelopment uh expansion or so forth there has to be an evaluation as to whether or not there's any DOT requirements for permitting and sometimes there is an interest in having an improvement but um I don't know any specifics about the Valera I'm sorry it's okay and then I'm just gonna ask the question so it's on the record and maybe Mr Fischer could answer this question but um back in 2014 obviously you weren't aware of the application until today but are you aware of whether um Bridgewater or anybody came out to object at that application um with respect or at least raise questions with respect to traffic other than other than potentially Mr Cole I I don't I know that Mr Cole had had commented about the Turning movements on the gas and Avenue uh Frontage but I don't know anything more about that so there's nothing between 2014 for example in 2024 with this application um that has changed the conditions where it makes sense to object or raise questions about it now versus back 20 back uh in 2014 well the only thing that's different is that the site's been functioning and apparently functioning safely since 2014 when it was raised as a as a potential concern I guess it'd be fair to say the biggest difference is is the use right you're going from sonoko to a cannabis dispensary right and while they are two different uses um they um they have comparable trip generation characteristics um and you've heard from the applicant that they're looking at this as a convenient Highway location as convenient access for their customers um and it's Our obligation to make sure that the trip generation numbers don't trigger an access permit so that's that's part of the work we do on a routine basis when there's a change in use and I don't know off the top of my head um perhaps Mr Co knows or Miss kazinski but I believe the regional notice was in place back in 2014 but I I don't want to make that representation I don't have the ordinance in front of me so I'm not sure if Bridgewater was notified but if the regional notice requirements were in place back then and perhaps Mr fiser can speak to it um uh yeah it it was in place in my opinion and they wouldn't have had to because a 200 foot yeah it's enters into Bridgewater also oh that's that's also true but the regional notice requirements in case the board isn't aware requires the applicant to submit much more than just you know your standard standard legal notice um so I'm just highlighting that if that ordinance was in effect of course um Township for Bridgewater would have had all this m all these materials for a very similar operation at least from a traffic standpoint as Miss stolin testified to this evening um back in 2014 yeah I would like to add that this was thoroughly vetted in 2014 and the board came to the same conclusions that Betsy's come to is going on it's outdated design but the triggers were not there from a do standpoint and the Alterna do nothing but as the mayor has said boot the traffic through Somerville for so if you do a thorough review of this it's far from ideal but the alternatives for my opinion one are not triggered by do I agree with M do and secondly the alternatives are potentially worse than the existing condition far worse in terms of impacting and u-turns and so forth right or you just um gas's nice and wide if you could just go south turn right out then pull urn and and head back up so use somebody's driveway and for those reasons it was not in my occurrent for since we' already beat this death uh one representation I just want to make on behalf of the applicant that if there is any sight line uh adjustments that the applicant can make with respect to Landscaping we're more than happy to work with with the Barrow and Mr Cole to to make those changes um again if there any anything that that we can do to help the situation reasonably speaking with the Landscaping we're we're happy to do so yeah that was my request if uh we can as the sight line could be increased anything we can do to give them more re action time essentially and we can come up with a plan that an abundance of caution Grant opening initially that should we have queing that there be a plan in place to address that uh situation right both of which we're happy to comply with thank you okay um so I'll open it up to the public for questions Andor comments please identify yourself for the record and address yeah speak into the mic and address your questions or comments to me maybe maybe not all right Alexander Fisher from the law firm Sabo Shaw corini Warner gespo grodnik and fiser um representing the township of Bridgewater uh first I would like to thank the applicant for clarifying some items regarding loitering and uh I believe uh Mr Fisher would you step closer to the microphone and consumption in cars than um I would just ask that those two two items the loitering sweeps and no consumption in cars uh be made a condition of approval uh of any approval that this board gives for this application uh there was one question that we raised in our letter that um was about EV parking being for customers only was not addressed by the applicant I don't know if that's uh uh possible for them to to address that yeah we can have uh signage indicating that as long as it's compliant with the um EV regulations in the state but sure we can we can do that right exactly all right so we we appreciate that and just just a few questions like to introduce into uh evidence as exhibit 01 it's a copy of actually doesn't have the date see December 17 2014 resolution uh regarding the site and application 2014-11 Z before the Zoning Board of adjustment of Somerville along with Mr Cole's memorandum for that application of October 31st 2014 um I copies and and just for the record that was included in the applicants application as well that was marked as A1 too just you know we don't need to have a separate so just to be clear what was part of A1 was the resolution it's fine to reintroduce it I'm just I'm just saying that what was part of A1 was uh exhibit 01 which includes the 2020 sorry 2014 resolution tion and Mr Cole's report and the report that's just what I wanted to CL probably easier that it gets introduced as a new exhibit anyway just thank you so first I would note with regard to the resolution uh the resolution does not mention any uh items regarding consideration of traffic uh left turns in or out from North Gaston Avenue uh so it's unclear whether or not the zoning board uh truly considered it its findings of fact and conclusions of law uh and I would note that it was not this board that reviewed it in 2014 but rather the Zoning Board second I would call the board's attention to um number H1 of the general comments of Mr Cole's memorandum page 8 of 10 and if I could just read that into the record the curb cuts on the Eastern side of the property are not consistent with NJ do standards the current cut onto Gaston Avenue should be a right turn only as a left hand turn is a site safety issue due to the insufficient sight line from eastbound Route 22 Vehicles exiting on to Gaston Avenue for this reason e should be restricted to Right Turn Only onto gas in Avenue that's probably been beaten to death at this point but I just wanted to make a record of that um just a few short questions because you did address a lot M doen I appreciate that uh are you familiar with section 102-84 of the burrow code all right I I don't know if uh you want me to read into the record M gazinsky you want to read it I have copies of it um you could read it into the record I'd like everybody to hear exactly what we're talking about so this is for uh site standards section 102-84 says uh subsection B number of driveways to and from Street access shall be provided by the minimum number of driveways necessary considering the characteristics of adjacent Street traffic and improvements and anticipated traffic volumes using the site driveways uh the need for emergency access site visibility and other factors related to Traffic Safety there shall be no more than one driveway on any site providing access to and from a burrow arterial roadway uh unless determined by the board that the additional driveways are necessary for Traffic Safety and convenience and then uh subsection C1 of that says no driveway shall be located within 50 feet of the point of beginning of any ramp rotary ramp interchange point of tangency or proposed curb radius for any Street intersection so uh can you tell me does it comply with either of those I don't think the existing access system does comply with that okay um and section 10 and just to be clear are you requesting a variance from those um I'm I'm really not um able to speak to variances I've looked at the access in terms of volumes uh safety history and the do permitting perspective and um I don't know that's a question for you I can I can speak to it I mean if if the if the board would like us to seek variant for that um we could can certainly do so I would say it's an existing condition um the traffic volume is there's no intensification to traffic on the site so while there's a change in use there there's no intensification so I don't I wouldn't uh I wouldn't necessarily agree that a variance is necessary for an existing uh condition where there's no intensification to the existing condition well I would like to chime in and say that's a waiver it's on variances in design standards and then the variance section the ordance it says that you have to comply the do standards right so the do obviously has jurisdiction on the site and I would argue that it probably has jurisdiction on the erress off of Gaston because you can't touch the driveways in my opinion without getting do approval because of have grition and you're referring to Section 102 118 yeah that sounds right there it specifically says you have standards and I think Miss Doan has demonstrated that there's no trigger point it may not comply with the existing standards however there's no trigger to change it based on the volumes and on and basically that it's been there for about a million years and more on top of it how would you change it that's really the the gist of all this is you have a situation when undersize lot with existing curb cuts and there is no really viable solution to change this and that's I we referred to with 10 years ago it was the board of adjustment this whole issue about yes it's not ideal that sight lines aren't needing current standards but how do you change it without causing other hardships at minimum left turns in from northg Avenue could be restricted uh they're not needed to flow back out onto Route 22 I understand needs left turns out of the property at North Gaston Avenue there's anyone turns so in my mind I call it self policing because I believe they're seeking other means of access to the site so there's I think we had three peak hours analyzed and there was only one peak hour where we had T volume there does the fact that they're putting signage facing north Gaston to the South indicate that more people might or they're attempting to attract more users to use the north Gaston driveway I think it's you know from from a traffic perspective I don't think it's an easy maneuver and I think that's why in all of our traffic counts we saw very few Vehicles use it so it's maybe more advertising maybe more hopeful but I don't see it really operating that way it's it's not an easy move to make so restricted Mr fiser yes it's me yes okay would you number one step closer to the mic sorry and number two address address your questions to me okay um so I guess my question that I would ask uh the witness is uh if so few trips are made using uh leftand turns from North Gaston into the property today uh why is it necessary from a traffic perspective to maintain that left turn Ingress from North Gaston Avenue maintain the left hand ESS Ingress Ingress I don't know I don't know that there's an answer to that and I think if there was we've heard it already would would that then also preclude a leftand Ingress into the gas station in Bridgewater off of Gaston Avenue a left turn cross with what left coming off coming off of the eastbound ramp onto Gaston Avenue would that then necess necessitate a restriction of a leftand turn into the gas station I can't answer that okay thank you I think we're at the point if it's not broke I I I understand and I would just like to thank the board for its time and ask that um the previous things I mentioned be considered as conditions of approval thank you we will consider them thank you was it for it was for Led sign Larry that's all it was it was a minor site plan application for signage okay and thank you we didn't have the benefit of a traffic study so the comments were based on sight line and the board with the applicant we went through what the mayor brought UPS about if you restrict the movement what do you accomplish are there problems and if you're restricting the movement what do you do with the impact of the cars comeing get back and the and and there wasn't any traffic data but the thought process was that no one can recall a lot of traffic issues far from ideal but it's existing in there and part of the fabric of community that answers your question L it was a sign application why there was no traffic ISS was no it's always been a gas station it was a signage going through LED signs and digital board Bill board and subsequence of that that was Chang in the ordinance at the request of the chairman why it has to be a board action throw it out there was Chang but it was not a thorough investigation it was a basically a minor site plan application thank you Mr fiser you yes sir mayor good evening Dennis Sullivan 8 South Richards Avenue I would ask the board to approve this application this is the culmination of a process that took place with the public vote I believe in 20122 at that point the council spent a lot of time and effort in craft ing the ordinance for location we developed an extensive questionnaire application form which addressed Security Storage nuisance smells all of the factors that the applicant has presented tonight um it it didn't happen quickly because we were very restrictive in what we expected and I'm pleased to see that uh what was presented tonight is really matches up with the ordinance that we created uh in 2023 so I thank you for your consideration and I hope you take you know those comments into effect when you vote thank you again thank you okay um I think Dennis is right that that um the council took a lot of time and put a lot of effort into creating this ordinance that that permitted this particular use and I think that the the uh traffic situation has existed for as long as I can remember and that's a long time now so I I'm in favor of it and I know that that we would have some conditions um Mike I just want to ask ask that other than those items you mentioned you're you're agreeable to um Mike Cole's report yes yes okay so we don't really have a lot of conditions well I I had a I had okay I had some are we can I just clarify we voting on preliminary or preliminary preliminary okay okay so it would be preliminary site plan approval this is what the motion would be for um along with the pre-existing non-conforming conditions and the variances and waivers outlined in Mike's report uh with the exception of wall sign number um that is listed in his report as a pre-existing condition but that's actually a compliant condition so we would not be adding that one the conditions that I had for the board to consider uh is uh first the one that was raised uh in Mr Fischer's letter uh ensuring no loitering and uh regular loitering sweeps by the security guard um there was testimony from the applicant that they would be doing that anyway so I don't know if that's a major concern but that was one uh compliance with Mr Cole's Report with the exceptions of item four Roman numeral 4 A3 which is the do curb ramp the Ada ramps um the applicant indicate that they'll take a look to see if they can reduce that slope so that's something I'll work with the board on uh and that they will move anything within the do RightWay or offsite work to move anything within those uh areas that are currently uh not located on the property um they'll do anything they can to move those um one of the question marks was the applicant was leaving it up to the board as to whether or not the granite block curbing that was recommended by Mike should be required um so that's a question um the street tree contribution um if they cannot put in all four shade trees they will make a contribution for that last final shade tree but they'll work to try to put them in street tree or shade tree so Street tree they will contribute money shade correct shade tree they're only missing one so they'll try to put that fourth one in there CU that's what I think the consensus was they could probably find someplace to put it but if they can't they'll make that contribution as well even though it's not necessarily required by the ordinance um the lateral will be televised to see if it's in good shape if it's not and the problem is onsite the applicant will repair or replace it if it's offsite that's New Jersey American Waters issue um the applicant will move one of the proposed wall signs from the Eastern fa facade to the southern facade and amend the architectural plans to reflect that um post construction sound test of the HVAC equipment obviously compliance with CRC State licensing requirements uh all of our other standard conditions regarding any and all other approvals escro monies Etc um the applicant indicated they would not have any display of open product um they would install signage on site with regard to no loitering and no consumption within Vehicles which I think is illegal anyway but that will be helpful um the applicant agrees as many applicants have done to allow the burough police access to the cameras and the storage of the footage uh there'll be fire code occupancy compliant um work with the board to make any reasonable adjustments to Landscaping in order to increase the sight lines establish a plan in the event that there is any queuing along Route 2 Route 22 so that that's in place and can be very easily implemented and signage that the EV vehicles are for customers only and um just to clarify and you might have said this and I might have misheard but I just want to make sure the board's aware this is for preliminary and final site plan approval we only do preliminary we're not doing them both anymore oh okay yep we've had some issues in the past with uh there needing to be changes and questions that weren't addressed so this has been a practice of the board okay okay yeah that was a policy change we made well over a year ago okay was wasn't not aware of that thank you so what is the board's feeling about the curbing I are they allow toou that's construction2 they can't anybody else have a preference when you're on the site it'll look nice with the nice shade trees Belgian block curving setting a high all right block okay right those conditions that Cara stated okay whenever you're ready Jenna chairman Nado yes Miss rosinski yes mayor Gallagher yes councilman V yes Miss adir Mr crasa yes Mr Cleveland yes and Mr addex yes thank you thank you thank you okay um here anything don't go anywhere well I got to open it up to the public hearing no public comment we'll close the public session um I know you do we need a motion to go into executive session you want to do that at night I yeah I don't we're not making good decisions no I'm make do I sense a rebellion can we do possibly another M all right we can try that okay so I move I'll second all those in favor I all those opposed thank you thank you mayor too old to last this long come on