##VIDEO ID:qu1__6q7trA## oh man forgot the heck did I do my good uh the meeting of the planning board burough Somerville for October 23rd 2024 please come to order adequate notice of this meeting as required by the open public meeting act has been provided on a cop that a copy of the notice specifying the date time and location was one posted on the bulletin board outside of burrow Hall two nailed facts or emailed to The Courier News and three given to the clerk administrator this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times roll call Members Andrea D here Chris addex here art Akens is excuse this evening Larry clevand here Jason ker here John manilo here mayor Gallagher here council member of vom um I assume he's running late acting chairperson Warner here pledge allegiance please I Al to flag of the United States of America and to the repic stand andice uh approval of minute from executive session October 23rd second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes uh Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes John manilo yes mayor Gallagher yes council member vroom yes acting chairperson Warner yes wire uh approval of minutes from regular session October 23rd so moved second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes John manilo yes mayor Gallagher yes council member of room yes acting chairperson Warner yes uh we need to put through amended resolution for 382 East Main Street so moved second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason kker yes John manilo um I don't believe I'm eligible correctly mayor Gallagher yes council member vroom yes acting chairperson Warner yes uh next we have the uh Award of fair open contract for professional planning services for the affordable pling affordable housing planning to colon Associates so moved second Andrea dare yes Chris addex yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes John manilia yes mayor Gallagher yes council member vom yes acting chairperson Warner yes and then now we have uh ward of contract for professional legal services for affordable housing to Renown Coughlin and melio so move second Andrea D yes Chris addex yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes John manilo yes mayor Gallagher yes council member V yes acting chairperson Warner yes all right and that brings us to our discussion items uh the tree ordinance which is on the agenda we are going to push uh for out for further discussion we're still waiting for some legal interpretation uh Mike let's go right into the checklist for compliance yes uh Kevin brought this up the checklist hasn't been revised in over 20 years it predates me and there's some items on it one of them is 13 copies which may or may not be app appable how the board sees us for every application uh the paper that the well I'm saying 13 copies when the steam complete the applicant within usually 10 days out supplies 13 copies for every board member and for the professionals Uh Kevin has suggested that uh that might want to be modified to maybe go PDF u a little bit on that but there's all checklist like there's a requirement there's a missing title block on the checklist for the board engineer so I would like to take a more BCT bigger picture of the checklist if the board want uh Kevin has a really good point and he points out that it's late in the year very late in the year so if we're going to make changes I think it has to be done by the recommendation by the next meeting I think that's correct yeah so the governing body has to uh do it by ordinance from a recommendation from the planning board uh one one of the main issues I've been working in that office for about a month now and I do know is a lot of volume of paper to submit 14 sets of plans uh for review by the by the board is is extensive in my opinion uh many of you are using your personal computers right now the governing body has authorized and Acquired and procured already uh laptops that will be on the deis for for the boards for the council and so forth so it could be as easy as bringing your own flash drive or if you wanted to pull it up on an email it'll be that and our goal is to do that next year um and and transition you know no one's going to be forced to move in a direction that we don't want them to to be comfortable with um but that's the goal um but obviously talking to uh Mike with the checklist not being updated in 20 years there's probably various areas that could be improved that would assist uh the staff in in processing applications for example uh a PDF of the whole application technically is not on the checklist but it's great to have a PDF for the files in the checklist so that a PDF is provided so timeline wise to get this done we have to send it up to council at the next meeting we would have to approve it to send to council I'm just looking could could we get for the next meeting then can we get the recommendations from you Mike with changes from I can stuff I've notic in 20 years and throw it up to the board for the next meeting and the board likes if I say nine items the board says seven then those Sev would go to the recommendation I think that's fair and that's TimeWise that's fine yeah so technically the governing body could introduce that ordinance by title right so the the necessarily details of the text don't necessarily be there so probably the second meeting in November the governing body could certainly introduce an ordinance by then um the recommendations will be made and then the governing body in their second meeting in December could adopt that and it would cover if for some reason that didn't happen the ordinance cannot go over the calendar year so it would' have to startle over next year and it would have to come here in the middle so we just have to make sure we had an intro at Council back to the planning Board review recommendation consistency and then back to you I guess which is why you're second meeting in December is when the final okay yeah we can kind of work backwards adopting it in the second the council could adopt in the second meeting of of December so we can kind of work backwards on the timeline on that so if it's doable to get that for is everybody okay with getting rid of the the very large sets of plans I think they should have hard copy one set at least that you can review at well what we could do is should the board like 11 by 17s yeah with the board do redu size unless there's a major application and we can put some language they need the bigger plans no I do them on my computer so I don't well I having one or two here to share chance what happens if she brings hers and I bring mine yeah can't have all three of them that's what I was thinking is maybe we you know do the compromise where larger applications you know some of those where there it is a pretty stat and you really need the bigger ones you know having that option on the checklist where you know if needed we'll provide to the planning board for that you know meeting I actually I like that if needed if requested yeah it's not a mandatory but on request yeah yeah I support all that but I'm I just want to go on record I'm completely fine with full virtual digital copies yeah work with them yes I was just say from my experience you know I've seen in the past in other towns other cities um typically it's it's just a couple art copies of the full size so like two or four one for the uh board secretary to show any public that comes in um one for the files and then um you know the rest are 11 x 17 or reduced size copies and then obviously the PDF um and then going back uh to the point about larger applications I think the catch all there is um some other towns and municipalities they put um any other items that may be requested by by uh the board professionals and then at that point the board secretary or professional cover cover we could yeah we could say if required and make it on a Case by case but put it right in the checklist it says that if required it by us I'm good and I think it is time 20 years is a long time L changed and I think it's definitely time to yeah up catch up yeah it's easier to store for your files too for the for the buau itself that it's saved perpetually you don't have to have a hard files and E to look back up yeah and that is that certainly um precipitating that because we have no space left so that certainly one of the major reasons but it it's just voluminous in the amount of paperwork so you know I understand the value of paper and I understand it's easier to work with but uh like a lot of other things is why are you looking at me when you say that no I'm not so so uh you know it is a type of situation where people get will get comfortable more comfortable with the electronic system and and and eventually over a period of time it'll be the way you're used to doing business now mayor I'm I'm I'm not I'm not super electronic either but but um you know we really don't have space and uh 117s would work fine for me yeah right inches right 11 by 17 thank you all right so you'll prepare some of that get it to to us prior to that next meeting so that we can have a little bit of time to look at it and then even if it's a few days but typically it'll be the closest window will be the Friday before Wednesday I'll get it out typically it's the Wednesday but we'll see how the calendar goes but sometime the week before yeah I think even if it's a day it's not opportunity for us to take a look at it so it's not brand new in the meeting because we do want to put make sure it gets through at the next meeting right hi we don't want to skip c yeah um all right so next up is our fence ordinance thank you you have three documents here uh one is the corner which has the diagram that was requested this is the reduction from 50 feet to 25 ft on the site triangle so you have chair if if if Michael's going to do most of the talking we have him just move over one seat because then I'll be able to stream is the TV not seeing him because uh well what I I can't get him because the TV is actually blocking okay if if he's going to do most of the talking I just felt to switch to that seat actually wanty one over one is that better is that better there he is there we go all right easy on the zoom I know it's all pre-programmed um the physical observations is the one with the drawing the board requested the drawing MH on that language because I agree that the drawing can really clarify what's going on so we beat that one the death and then the other one was the basically the conditional use on the fences and all that does is give flexibility all of this is flexibility if uh the ARB makes a recommendation to the planning board the applicant go planning board can review the arb's recommendation agree with it disagree the ARB of the applicants here and the planning board disagrees that meets the conditions then it has to go to the board of adjustment we had talked about the checklist being revised to clarify that this is part of the $35 fee so that uh we you know that was one of the mayor's concerns that this was people who live on a coral burdens on they're not penalized for living on a corner right so the the language here would take care of the conditional uses and the flexibility it came up that were the H the work it this way the ARB would have to report back to the planning board which it appears and that's what this ordinance was I pulled the ordinance up that was I guess done last year the year before and and which one is that just for the record this is the ordinance uh 2704 d23 d403 um this ordinance was uh revised the A or B to essentially report to the zoning officer but what we had talked about the planning board had talked about was having the ARB report back to the planning board on matters regarding uh Sid the signs and so forth so it might be as easy as just changing the Lang strike through you see what the ordinance shows the existing language it could be as simple as just going back to the existing language as opposed to Reinventing the wheel I I don't know how anyone feels about that but you have a copy of the ordinance and of course this would be a recommendation to council and I think the only other change there was right now at least the way I'm reading it the ARB is only within the Sid correct so would we have to then apply it across the board to all fences within the burrow right do we do we want to even just say throughout the burrow in case something else comes and we don't yeah because we we have had applications outside of the Sid where they were subject to ARB review and approval yes so let's make that clear if that's what we I think we just say the burrow right yeah I think that's I agree what so what's the criteria for it to come to the to the ARB if it's not in the SSID that that it would be the this board um if we have an application and they're looking for variances and one of those uh stipulations is that they have to bring something back to the to the not enough to come back here but the ARB can review it um and they agree to that that's when the ARB will review and then make a referral back to here gotta that doesn't start by going into the ARB if it's outside this no we've actually used it for redevelopment areas outside of the Sid already so this cleans it up the way it used to be is the ARB wres recommendations and the board here can either agree with the ARB or kick it around and kick it back to ARB it's something the doesn't agree with something in this case would be the fenes the ARB said this is is meets the conditions and the board agrees it's that's it's over it's done the planning board would just approve it just like any other application and if Sid said no I'm sorry the ARB said it didn't like keeping the fence issue the ARB says it does not meet the conditions the appeal is here or zoning board it would go to the planning board first first and then the planning the applicant could say I think the ARB is incorrect and their interpretation H and then the planning board would thoroughly vet this because technically in carage it's your call on this but the ARB is just making recommendations they don't prove anything advisory body advisory body the power is the planning board so if the applicant did not the didn't agree with the arb's recommendation they could take the application right to the planning board and the planning board make the determination whether it meets the conditions so so I guess my question is is and that makes a lot of sense if the ARB says and and again whether it's a fence well I'm just thinking the signs that we've been doing recently um if the ARB looks at it and says yeah this is compliant I think recently it's just been going like that's the end of it we now go back to the old way where it comes back here with those recommendations and we all review it and then formally put it on record that it's been approved yeah just a clarification the professionals don't see that put in your hand out to look at the arvs so it's not a financial issue the board would weigh and whether like for a sign the Aesthetics it it meets if it doesn't meet in the past on signs if the the board had concerns he kicked it back to the ARB stating the concerns it's too large or it's too bright or something to that extent and then the ARB would work with the applicant to revise it then kick it back to the planning board do we want to take the opportunity unless missing it I don't see anywhere in here where it states who is on the Architectural Review Board talking about making some changes we want CH a residential component because of doing out the because of the fencing we wanted to add yeah so are we keeping it or does it make sense to do two separate arbs No it should be the same just one so we're still keeping somebody from the Sid on the one doing the outside like if it's a fence at the mayor's house again I'm just checking if that's I'm getting picked on tonight you right it's the time yeah I know it sounds like it would be a good idea in general to have a member of the Public Public that would be the res not a business that's what we said here to the extent possible the ARB shall include a resident of the bureau that is not affiliated with the board of adjustment planning board or downtown sville allowance it's it's in here to to the extent possible because the comment was you might not find someone who's willing to do that on every application so we can clarify that language but it is under on page two you'll see in that the paragraph uh the third paragraph from the bottom it it talks about the makeup of the a orb I'm not seeing that all applicants propos to use the above stated conditional you stands shall be reviewed by the ARB and members of the ARB shall be residents of the B to the extent possible the a orb shall include a resident of the bureau that is not affiliated with the board of adjustment planning board of downt sunville allows what missing a page a page I'm sorry and I don't know what subsection but you what you read is what I was looking for I I'll I'll pass mine out I'm sorry I um it's it's just there's two pages to this document one corner lot I mean not the corner lot one not the not the Ordinance one there we go okay all right so I'm not missing it I was with I was with you Lisa uh there it is as I recall the board liked the idea of having a resident review these but I think that needs to go into the don't you think this it should be in this also not just in something for fences well that's a good question your we're going to amend the ordinance back to airb you're suggesting that the ARB language we put in there to open up the whole bur were applicable and to put the resident to the extent possible okay so I have a question take the opportunity to do that I just have one quick and maybe I'm dense tonight I don't know but it's saying that the um all application proposing the use um members of the ARB shall be residents of the burrow which I understand but not just residents will be on that board right I'm I'm thinking that you'll have somebody from like the planning board and yeah it's Z somebody from planning zoning SI says that am I missing that the concern was and that's where I think it can be clarified in here would be clarified because the concern was that right now the AR orb representative isn't is a b resident but technically that's not always going to be the case so the the clarification was to make sure that there was a resident at least one on to review this um and then the current processes that's going into the zone zoning officer it's obviously going to come back to this board so we just I want to make sure that that process is clean not waiting for meetings you know what I'm saying you still need to be able to meet the other way so right now the ARB meets ad hoc yep via email and they all review it typically not in person but via email I think sometimes in person but it gets done very quickly in my experience from dealing with that so in the past it was I think from what I can remember I'm getting old so I might be wrong it's been a while but I thought the board secretary was the one that sent it out to the ARB members and then we we used to try to come up with a date yes to meet then we moved virtually which made it much easier so I think that's I'm not saying that has to be in here but I do want to make sure that that gets clarified on what that procedure is correct once those because that the last thing we want is all of a sudden it gets lost in the shuffle and not isn't that coming from the zoning officer now I I don't know that's my point yeah we we made a a um procedural change in the municipal building and and what happened was we we had transferred it from I guess I guess at the time uh Tony wman was probably putting it together and then we transitioned that to John melli as a zoning officer and it's been since transition to navene and she would continue to do that coordination as well okay that's my question is I just want to make sure that we're clear on that on the oration and if uh the board likes to to just to bridge the issue of the fees I like to put a sentence in here saying the fees in the in this ordinance so the so that the fee ordinance doesn't get lost Lag Way behind and then we have this qu well the fees don't say that if we I like to add a sentence or two in here saying that the fees for this process will be the zoning permit whatever that I won't give a number just saying it'll be this will be handled as under the application fees for zoning permit therefore it's clear unless it's denied well once it's denied but even if it's denied we had talked about and they wanted to go to the board of adjustment to keep the cost down on that Jason that was the on the fence one on the fence I'm talking about fence one not not on all a the concern was if it doesn't meet the conditions and it has to go to the board of adjustment it's still financially burdensome on it property owner if I understand this right so for the fence I just wanted to make sure we're talking just the fence not the change in the ARB so if you know I I it's really car car bag we come up with language a sentence or two about the fees just I'm trying to get that because we're running out of time in the year and uh I'd rather not look at the whole fees right now at the end of the year as opposed but I want to address the concerns of that in this and it gives you that flexibility to change the fee schedule when don't be in accordance with this fee so whenever that changes it changes yeah I I guess my only question with and I'm fine with everything we can you know make the recommendation I won't vote against it or anything um is if if it all going back with the Signs Now defense would say I kind of think defense is a little more intricate but the signage and stuff if if the airb and the zoning official agree that it's a conforming does it need to come back to us yes if it's within the Sid yes if it's within the Sid but not outside the Sid well no that's not true because it's a Redevelopment and we've dictated it if if it's a if it's a uh condition of approval correct if it's a part of a condition planning board approval then they have to go okay it's a recommendation that then the board would adopt yeah and because I remember we used to three seconds like all right any other questions or comments can I ask a questions absolutely yeah just as Clarity so if it's what you're saying is that if it's a conforming sign and it's outside the sad where they would normally just come in for a sign permit they would still have to come go to the planning board no okay only if that was part of an original condition that we a condition in the resolution okay y That's i w give you guys a signage plan and they'd say that the sign would be in accordance with the requirements of the ordinance that would and we would say that would go to the the ARB ARB would review it make the recommendation that it is we would then adopt it unless it's there Sid or Redevelopment we don't have to deal with them that would be any other zoning permit and then the fee Associated to what Mike was speaking about is so right now right now an applicant does pay an ARB fee right to go to the ARB I think it's $25 or something like that I'm not sure what it is um and and so that fee would include it coming back to the planning board and is the applicant expected to be here or no no they were never here in the past and I don't foresee unless somebody else disagrees I don't see that changing we would just see the recommendation and go from there it okay so the fee that they currently pay for the RB would be the Fay correct I was thinking it needs a zoning approval and the zoning approval has a fee of zoning application I was $25 right yeah so to keep the fees down just say zoning approv of fees the only so no airb Fe no is what I'm suggesting that just look I'm saying that the zoning officer has to review this because it's a land use it's a fence so that there's a a fee right there use that fee for the whole process if I think that's fine yeah so get rid of the ARB fee and just use the zoning right correct all right so just to kind of clarify make sure everyone's on the same page so application for I'm I'm just going to stick with the def fenses right now because I think that's what we're changing a little bit application for fence pursuing to the conditional use goes to the ARB go zoning permit application submitted to the ARB ARB says yes it complies with all the conditions come to the planning board planning board either says yes we agree no we don't agree if we don't agree they go to the zoning board all under that same fate correct or the planning board kicks it back to the ARB and says if you change X Y and Z we find it to comply so the applicant would have that option so there's three options okay approve it say it has to go to zoning board or it would meet if it had these revisions but again all encompassed under that one F my experience is the the planning board has a concern with something it typically weighs in how to correct that or what the concern is and sends it back as opposed and yes they have obviously had the choice of going to the board of adjustment but it's a lot less modulous if they just say okay these take the picket fence and lower it six Ines or something yep they say oh we can do that boom are we gonna get revised drafts of this just take one more look at it and I think we can send it up send it up to the council with those on on the signage and I and thank you for letting me speak by the way is is on the signage would there be also a timeline between the ARB just in case there's no I don't know planning board meeting gets canceled would there be a timeline where where if it's not heard by the planning board that it's automatically approved if they after they are be approved it so like 30 days afterwards if the planning board did not hear it after the AR approved it would it get automatically approved because that that was really really the premise that caused this thing to start with well what I will say is that since we've updated the um uh the agenda we we're keeping items on here so there there may there's always going to be something to talk about so I think the cancellation of meetings will be few and far between if any uh because especially in the next year or two there's there's there's a whole lot of activity going on so I I I understand the concern because you don't want to delay Commerce but I I think the the folks that will be appointed to the ARB and um and this board understand we had especially at bur Hall we have to keep it moving because what one of the big complaints we get oh you know the slow pace of government is holding me up I can't get my sign up it's been you know sometimes it's 3 days and sometimes it's 45 days and how do we keep that compressed so that that compression comes from making sure that we you know even if it's a one isue meeting we come in we approve it and we move on and I know way back in the past that was one of the things especially if there was an ARB application or anything we would just come in just to make sure that it wasn't delayed so I don't foresee that changing like you said I don't think we should ever have an automatic approval if we timing mistakes I I think I think the recommendation would then go back to the zoning office not just automatic approval right well that's what it was so what was what was changed was that the signed approvals would go to the ARB the ARB would as long as it was conforming would make their recommendation to the zoning official and then the zoning official would allow it so it didn't come back here because it went to the zoning official if it was conforming that was the way that we that was the change that we had made just our curiosity and again going way back now why why are we reviewing conforming signs to confirm their conforming Aesthetics well Aesthetics it does it just for the Aesthetics of it well that's that that's the intent of the ARB because it was crafted initially under the Sid special improvement district for people who don't understand what bid means we're throwing acronyms around so the ARB is the architectural revie VI board their role was to help ensure that the character of Main Street doesn't become it doesn't start to look like Seaside Heights the boardwalk uh which it can very quickly and and we've actually begun to address some things already that uh that that we're going a foul of what our ordinance uh States it should be so it it really and and it's worked very well over the last 20 years it's created a very distinctive downtown atmosphere and one of the things you want to do is to make make sure that you maintain that I I me more outside like if they had a fence that was conforming why would it need to come to the RB they they so w with these any of these corner lot ones if it's conforming it would just go straight through it would never go to the a bay correct as long as it's meeting most of these agreed yeah okay correct right the only time it would come to us would be for a variant yes yeah the one big thing and again that's what I was just saying with the signs outside of the Sid they come even though they don't need a variance because it's a conforming sign and it's coming to us so I wanted to make sure we're not getting into some situation where it's we don't like the type of fence it's you know oh I don't like the cut I want it to be a straight or you know getting into people's property with if you look on Main Street there's very few no box signs yeah yeah for for that even they conform is the Aesthetics of the Box sign was always been discouraged by this board to have a unique sign so even if it conforms the reason a orb I mean this planning board looks at it is for something like that and I was more concerned when we were talking with defensing and everything we're not going into a person's property and saying no no no I don't like this it's conforming but we don't really like the way you're doing it no that's what I'm saying with the signs so with our signs and conforming are we changing then because we the the council changed it and and the planning board weighed in LA on May of 23 to change it so that if it was conforming we had faith in the ARB the ARB said yes it is kicked it to the zoning officer and the zoning officer signed off on it rather than going from the ARB to the planning board to the zoning officer right so are we adding that step back in to come back here yes the because the the reality is they they don't have the ability to approve that the only governing body that has the ability to approve that is here so so it has to come back here um for and even if it's a tacit approval it's just putting the stamp of the planning board on that approval the ARB doesn't have that approval Authority I know they don't that's why I went to the zoning officer yeah so the zoning officer has the once it goes through and the ARB says yeah it meets all the standards and guidelines it was passed and could could just keep the ball rolling yeah that that I I can tell you for 25 years when since that was implemented that I think the reason it changed is because there was a Slowdown that's my that's my understanding that there was a Slowdown in the approvals and that U store owners were complaining because they couldn't get approvals out of either the ARB or the planning board or the zoning officer so you know the idea here is we we bring it back to what it was streamline the operation little cost well actually it's just the the standard cost or a sign application and it comes back here for that ultimate approval and I can tell you in in the the years that I've been sitting on this board I think there were maybe three or four signs that we didn't approve um but it was warranted and and you know the ARB had made a recommendation that be approved that came back here and we said no we're not putting that up on Main Street it's not going to happen so it's it's a it's a it's a process that it may extend it it should extend it only maximum by two weeks maximum or three if we've got an oddball month that's it it's come I think it's coming back here because it was working before and the adjustments that were made allowed things to go through that maybe should have come back here for approval has they were insistent on oh it's got to be streamlined blah blah blah and we did all that and now we're bringing it back it's a full circle thing we're doing it here because we need to have oversight they don't have the approval or the authority to approve we're oversight so I think that this is the way to do it bring it back yeah and the counter to that is they you know at some point you have to give this this governing body the ability to approve these types of uh things and it may be simple it may be a simple sign but the authority rests here it doesn't rest with the zoning office from from what I can remember too when the ARB was originally implemented it was an ex exension of the planning board it was not its own thing so the authority really wasn't with the zoning officer it was with the ARB when the ordinance got changed it moved that Authority without in my opinion the authority to do so because it really was the ARB was supposed to be this extension of us to streamline items that really were um whether it was in keeping with historical nature of something or the design element of something when you look at that original little book from the ARB it was very clear it was not just about conforming it was more about visual um Aesthetics to make sure that it you know it went with the style of Main Street in that Sid District so I think that was part of what where I felt like it was it's not just a matter about the simple is saying well it conforms because it might conform to the signage regulation but does it conform to what we our expectations that from the planning board as it relates to the Sid I like I said I'm just asking the question because I know we made the change um I know that when I I mean I I've obviously I have not been on the planning board for as long as all of you have um when when we looked at signs previously it was looked at it and approved it I don't remember there being any discussions previously because the ARB was the gatekeeper yep um so I'm just I'm just throwing that out there as long as we can if we can keep up the pace and we can not slow things down I think that's great I know that again there was a gridlock and there were some businesses and to the mayor's point that were saying that it was taking a month two months to get these approvals so as long as we're going to be on top of it I think that's great good any other comments questions about that so you will have something so I would say we should have a vote authorizing like to send the recommendations directly to them directly correct recommendations car's help WR in the language on the fee and we talked about and opening up the ARB where the whole burrow where appropriate the language we had talked about and that and hopefully that fee saying it will be a zoning for the fenes will be a zoning application fee we'll put it right in there and then hopefully next year we can look at the land use ordinance and more big picture point of view correct be the draft ordinances and then we'll see it again yeah and we're also going to need to make a motion I think for the fence ordinance as well yes correct right so an do a motion for both motion motion for both to sorry Mike does the fee have to be in the municipal land use fee schedule or could it be part of the municipal fee ordinance so if they were to adjust that throughout the year they can do do that or or does it have to be in chapter 102 I think it has to be on chapter 102 um because it's land use okay and uh we can certainly look at that but I think to cover this right now would be just the zoning permit fee would cover the whole process so that zoning permit fee is in our land use right correct okay so we didn't have to touch the that fee schedule at this moment yeah I'd make a motion with you know the discussion we had to send it you know my my concern is with the fence I don't want to delay that one anymore I know there's residents waiting a couple months at this point so I'd like to get that up to council as a recommendation so I don't do we have to do them separately or could we do them both we could do them both and you know again it's just authorizing him to send the draft ordinances as revised based upon a discussion tonight both the fence and the ARB amendments uh to council for their review and uh hopefully introduction and again we'll see them back before us okay I'll make that motion thank you K do we need a roll call for this yeah I know the names Andrea D yes Chris addex yes Larry Cleveland yes Jason crasa yes John manilo yes mayor Gallagher yes council member V yes acting chairperson Warner yes okay um I have no comments at this time I am going to open up the the meeting to the public for any comments hearing none I will close public session um are we going back into executive no okay I don't no there's no need thank you all right uh motion a question a few weeks ago we had something from riton I guess it was with the the three towns they sent us about changing intersection on on Route 202 but we never discussed it and I'm just curious about it the regional center Regional Center they the Raritan sent us something that they're doing some sort of changes at first that was I think a hand CH this was an example that Mike gave us about an ordinance of how Oh I thought they were doing something no no no it was it was an example I I did the same thing at that meeting and I had to ask m okay never mind all right a motion to adjourn I I just sorry I apologize I I did just need two items of Direction one is the so the Board of Education I did speak with them I know at the last meeting where the board was presenting their their uh drawings I shouldn't say their drawings their Vision prior to the referendum being issued in March that that is um those are courtesy reviews which the burough actually PID pays for um and I guess my question to the board would be is it really necessary to have them come back before the referendum I would think on the remaining items yes I see I disagree it's up to them you don't think so it's up to them it's they're going to be doing a whole courtesy review for the entire public on these these referendums and obviously all all it really is is a a footprint it's not even a review of a a site plan so so we're reviewing a footprint that may or may not happen correct and and the changes from pending referendum items one item passes another one doesn't where the money shifts then they're going to have to come in for a courtesy review at that time yeah I mean if there if we're not breaking any current regulations that they have to then yeah I think the board last meeting there was some expectation I guess maybe or said that they would come in prior to the referendum but but in speaking with them because they were actually scheduled to come back tonight but again they were just going to show you a footprint they the plans aren't established the the referendum obviously that that's an approval that would allow them to move forward um and I I I was just concerned that they're going to come in with five applications while your agenda today is not busy it's going to get busy and and more importantly um you know we're financing th th those reviews yeah my thinking is is let them let them vet their concept as they see fit with the public as opposed to and and once they have a plan that's when they can come all right that's what my question was so they would still come in but we're just waiting for them to go I think a real plan before rather rather than they think I might want to do this I might want to do that I have a lot of great ideas of things I want to do I don't want to no I was just confused on that that piece then yes I do agree with that yeah my note said that they're going to come back with fully engineered site plans and I think the intention of that was they're not going to do fully engineered site plans until they have the referendum have guidance yeah all right no that makes sense then little be off your agenda and then the issuance of a 2025 rfps so the board has professionals that that annually get appointed so I mean you could take that up in executive session of how and and the only reason is because as the clerk and Miss pal I usually do them for the board as well and we'll be talking about that in in the council meeting um how they want to proceed so I think it we just need I'll just need some direction as to how the board wants to proceed whether they want to go through a process or or or they're they're looking to seek uh existing appointments and so forth so I just need some future Direction on that okay thank you again anything else motion to adjin how about that second all approved I I