evening the meeting will please come to order adequate notice of this meeting as required by the open public meeting act has been on January 19 2024 copy of the notice was specifying the date time and location was posted on the Bolton board outside of burough Hall given to the clerk administrator mail faed or email to The Courier News and placed on a bullet um burrow website if any believes that this meeting is being held in violation of the open public meeting act please State your views at this time these procceedings are of a Judicial nature only those items on the agenda will be addressed and proper judicial decorum must and will be maintained next item on the agenda roll call please chairman deair here Mr allet M carpinet here Mr mclin here Mr O'Neal here Mr Vimy here Mr Flores Mr Alvarez here Mr Daniels would someone please move that Ed's absence be excused move move second all in favor I opposed carried okay um Pledge of Allegiance Mr danels yes and Mr D I'm sorry would move second all in favor okay forgot about Stuart my P want to learn pled to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay someone like to move the uh minutes for the last meeting I'll move them second move and second roll call please chairman Adair abstain Miss carpinet yes Mr mclin yes Mr O'Neal yes Mr vsky yes Mr Flores yes Mr Alvarez yes okay we have no resolutions okay so we have two land use all right we have two land use applications the first one is um okay uh 144 141 West End Avenue all right before we start that yeah I'm new here so I don't understand what's going on I'm not sure why we're hearing this application that's what they're going to tell us no I ask why are we entertaining it I don't see a need for it I don't understand that's why I'm asking you're saying yeah yeah for an existing pre-existing noning building so we when we changed that PO the it it didn't include things like that the use is pered but setbacks not comp so when they change the ordinance for this that was not addressed right the ched but you have a pre-existing non-conforming building quite frankly both of these applications T I seem like a waste of time and money I'm just not quite sure I'm following it I mean if we're going to hear all that kind of stuff but I'm I need a lesson in Bland use because I'm not understanding what's going on one of the things that um I been looking at when we change the P Zone um is that when we do change one of the business um the business or whatever is in there that we really have to take a hard look at the um uh impervious coverage and all those other bulk standards and my suggestion would be that we adopt our2 standards for uh these changes in the P war zone we're we're thinking the same way because 80% of this town is pre-existing non-conforming you can't make a building shorter without chopping something off to make a piece of property wider so we're require variances for this yeah government ad finest no question we had we had a um an itty bitty committee several years ago to uh residential zoning and we were trying to make the process easier but things slipped through the cracks so until we can get the ordinance changed to um to reflect what would happen in an R if it was a strictly an R2 Zone then we have to hear it I understand we have to hear because we didn't but we correct things prop we can take a look at it and just as we took the the lead with the pone into changing it we can get to the the mayor and Council and say look and the planning work look this is what we suggest we do when we have a a change of use that's now going to be more residential and uh we let's use the R2 standards yeah I read that two applications tonight which both existed for probably well over a 100 years exact same building hasn't changed yeah exterior hasn't changed the property hasn't gotten bigger or smaller and you can't make it bigger or smaller and we're making people do this we gotta we got to change that yeah we can that's something so I do have a question follow up with Rich uh do we have the ability to have a waiver committee no the planning board does not for variances the planning board can't do it for Vari it's so Mike if I'm looking at this tonight on schedule B the the one variance that is marked on your report it's the minimum sidey yard 8 ft and 20 ft so we are 5 in 5 Ines out of compliance on the one and we're 2 feet 7 in on the other yeah the Minimus so is that the only reason why that they're here in front of us yes for that yes that is a shame it is it's nuts it it's a shame it's a shame for the town it we're trying to encourage people to come in they're putting I can't imagine the amount of investment that's coming in on this and now because of less than a five foot variant we're making them go through all this and we're in front of this board we have better we have better things to do to move stuff through and I I think AR that that we need to get this thing corrected right away because this is not going to stop because one of the things that Brian did on on the first of the year was give the planning board marching orders and we're going to re do a deep dive into the master plan and to the zoning ordinance and I've got a half dozen that just impact my neighborhood I'm gonna make a motion right now that we approve this application I don't know if we can do that I think I would too but I let's they're here give us a brief synopsis of what you want to do and let's rock and roll I think just to just to touch on all the protocols I think it would be appropriate to have the applicant or the applicant's attorney simply appear and make whatever presentation the worst thing you want to do is have somebody could be in the audience well you didn't follow the appropriate rules and the applicant didn't make its case right and then we get flipped in we get flipped in the law division so I I I would my recommendation would be for the applicant to appear you know if the board is so inclined I you know certainly I know I I think a brief presentation would be in order and uh if you if you believe you need your Witnesses that's fine too but uh I think it'll be better to keep to that procedural protocol plus their their professionals are on the clock they're going to get paid one way or the other one of one of the thing because I know at least one of the applications has previously been before this board so you know that you know the board is aware of the principal One-Stop shopping and said once a board gets an application it tends to keep it uh the law is pretty definitive in that regard I know I was discussing that with the applicant one of the applicants attorneys earlier today okay would you like to make your appearance please I can't hear you I need to be an interpreter for him okay all right well that's fine I mean I'm going to swear what I'm going to do is I'm going to swear you both in is uh okay sir are you the attorney for the applicant the engineer the engineer okay great now because you have an interpreter I'm going to there's essentially going to be two Oaths okay first of all sir would you raise your right hand you saw me S the testimony you're about to give me this matter will be the truth so help you God yes I do okay please state your name and spell your last name for the record Roberto Martinez my last name is m a t i n e z very good and you're interpreter sir uh please raise your right hand you somly swear that your that as an interpreter you will way I'm The Interpreter oh he's The Interpreter okay well well let me uh let me also swear you in I I am Jose Vargas and uh I buy the property like this that's the reason okay well I just please raise your right hand okay you saw me swear the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth so help you got yes I did all right please state your name spell your last name for the record Jose Vargas and I the own of the property all right well you're Mr Martinez I just want to make sure that by giving your oath and I'm instructing you rather than make you repeat it but you know you have essentially you've essentially sworn before the before the board which is a quas Judicial body that your interpretations will be faithful and accurate as to every Everything stated by you by the by by the client by your client yes sir all right very good with that understood I think you can welcome so um we're here I'm here uh helping my friend because he purchased a property uh it it's uh right now it's uh it was an office when he bought it but uh it's going to be converted back to his original use which was residential so um you know that's basically we're here you know we want to move uh our friend family there and we required this we had to hire engineers and everything just for yeah five inches and something like that so that's basically what we're here so if you have any questions we're happy to to address but basically I mean that's what it is you know we'll bring it back to the original use which was residential what are you going to do in the backyard are you going to keep the parking lot as is or are you going to put grass right now we want to keep it like that because we just made a big uh investment but our idea is in the future you know have just a little bit and then the rest be a grass area but right now we're just going to leave it like that do you think you're going to come in for a garage no no I would like to see more grass there we can put a time frame on that okay is that was one of the things that uh someone had talked about in converting another piece of property into p Zone I just want to leave my parking lot like and we did that on um Ross Street we made them uh cover that with with grass anybody from the board have any questions anyone from the audience have any questions of the testimony just given by Mr Vargas only question I stor pipe I just don't know where it goes there's existing SP paring it goes yeah it goes back but I don't know if are you aware of this go down goes to the back of the property but after that we don't know up I think it ties is it great in it and yeah he talked to the to the neighbor about that and he said it just continues to the end to the all this yeah I think it ties into a private a private yes you need some you need some testimony from the engineer just to clarify I don't think the engineer is here is your engineer here yeah oh he here yeah he's charging might as well put it here sir would you come up please yeah I was GNA say I'd like you to answer the our engineer's questions please raise your right hand you saw me swear yeah thank you into the microphone do you saw me swe the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth so I hope you got yes I do please state your name and spell your last name for the record yes my full name is claudo Andreas Romero uh my last name is r o m e r o very good and uh sir could you favor the board with your qualifications yes I'm a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey with an active and valid license to practice the profession in the state I hold a five-year uh degree in civil engine engineering and over 15 years of design experience and different projects ranging from minor to ma major developments and for residential commercial and Industrial properties are there any questions with regard to the credentials of the no let's stipulate to Mr Romero very good thank you Mike you have a question yeah it was just you had that catch Bas yes on the parking lot I think the pipe goes south correct U you want can put in the exhibit you know on on the screen or or yeah I think it' be beneficial to everyone just to see it um sure you can I'll bring it to the screen okay has that already been submitted as evidence was that already submitted with the application materials yeah yes uh the plan that I'm going to use is the variance plan that we submitted to the board all right well then you don't need it does not need to be marked in as evidence based on your based on your Assurance yes no not no need marked very good okay okay it worked 10 minutes ago right I think you can explain it yeah I can say is there a drain or a grate on it yeah it's the existing uh parking area has a catch Basin and it's an existing pipe draining into the back of the property it's a metal cover that is an structure drain structure and it's a pipe going south crossing the properties and draining to the back of the property to the back properties it's a existing pip um Mr Vargas he spoke with the neighbors and they're aware of this pip they know that this pip has been there for decades um none of the neighbors have any issues with drainage issues so he's been working for years and it's going to be it's going to remain asist yeah I my my comment was just to make your best efforts to try to get some kind of license agreement to tie into a private system I understand it's there you can only do so much if the if you can't get it you can't get it but to make the effort if it's tying into a private system on a different property uh to somehow moralize the rights and I think that brings up the point of the metal cover I think the metal cover is sh half on this property half on the adjoining property so obviously that easement license agreement whatever would address that metal cover yeah correct who's responsible for it so forth yeah understand that's the only thing that bothers me is the metal the uh the cover yeah there's a cover there there's a pipe uh the other comments I had I think there's one or two slabs potentially that the sidewalk is uneven and a small portion the driveway apron that's that's settled correct I mean I spoke with the optican and he agrees to repare the sidewalk and and the C apron and the other comments was what the German said about Green Space and there's nine parking spaces for a single family do you need nine what the chairman said yeah I would like to see some grass there like I don't care if you have to cover it up and put sod down or whatever but I'd like to see less than previous coverage yeah well the I I like you said uh it's in his plans so can we say within a year 18 months yeah pleas okay one of the point is that the property doesn't exceed the maximum coverage for imper so is within what is permitted in the property right you want to make that a condition or approval Mr chairman I would okay it'll be you know so essentially just to be clear I guess this is the parking area will be reduced right now there's nine spaces and what the chairman is suggesting that maybe this the N be Reduce by a number of spaces that add some more green space to the backyard so there's a barbecue area or something other than black well Mr chairman if I can um you know my professional opinion is to provide enough parking not just for the residents but uh the nature of the location of this property is in a a high in the St State Highway and there's not much parking available on the street so you know my recommend you know if he has visitors so he's going to have a party or something you know it's better to have parking off Street than having on the state highway is he going to live there no his family right who's going to live in there yeah his daughter his daughter is family his family yes is there a number in mind in terms of how many spaces are to be reduced why are we complicating this thing the guys family is going to live there let me draw that okay who was comfortable very good um is that it yes anybody from the board have any questions anyone from the audience have any questions of Mr Romero okay your sum your summation yeah you think it'd be good yes now can I move it seconded you know I was just thinking maybe we should have Bill Kell her here you know what I'm talking about actually talking about has been moved second second Cliff any um what do you have only conditions are subject to Mr Cole's report and our standard conditions of approval we've withdrawn the other condition in connection with the parking spaces those conditions are what leveling the sidewalk leveling the sidewalk and apron and making best efforts to try to get some LIC and that's it that's that's the deal okay okay let been move second roll call please chairman Adair yes M Carpet yes Mr mlin yes Mr O'Neal yes Mr vsky yes Mr Flores yes Mr Alvarez yes that's great yeah just congratulations thank you prepare resolution of approval which should be heard at the May 15th meeting I don't I don't want some kid doing a Mickey Manel out there in the backyard trying to catch a point the ball okay Rich you right we're talking yeah it it it's something that we're all I don't have 12 and eight um my property and I very few of my neighbors do right I mean I it's and we've got our talent gets backed up when be doing this yeah we have to give the give the officer some leeway this doesn't make sense yeah okay that's the problem makes sense get in trouble it's government that do Fest the only Conant in the universe is the bureaucratic mentality oh no problem well he's a good-look man good evening uh good evening members of the board uh my name is Mike ogrodnik at savos shock Law Firm here in Somerville um excited to be on an application for uh I know uh a property we've all had in our eyes for a long time um we're here on behalf of Somerset Hospitality LLC um doing business as sustain restaurant um this application of course is regarding the uh historic building where the former the latest tenant was a TD Bank and and many other Banks before that uh this application proposes an extensive uh renovation the multi-million dollar renovation of that space uh to turn it into a restaurant and bar um my uh client intends to uh of course you know completely renovate and redecorate the space and add a mezzanine for additional dining uh this is um proposed to be a centrally located bar uh which would be on the ground floor a whole new kitchen all uh all new um interior um we also have an area for a small music stage a waiting area and a private dining area located in the old Vault the bank vault cool the basement of course consists of storage and bathrooms and a and a secondary uh kitchen Prep Station uh kitchen has a two story ceiling height and there's an elevator uh proposed to be installed which with stops on all three floors that being the the basement the ground floor and the mezzanine no exterior changes are proposed to the footprint of this building uh other than um something I know we talked about the last time we were here before which which was the restoration of that amazing uh clock good um reading my mind yeah and we I think that's the first thing we all said when we met as a as a team that uh the buau would be very appreciative to get that uh that piece of art working again um there's also a proposal for a sustained Brash finish logo signage above the door uh and of course we're just like the the building next door we intend to clean uh the brick and the stone uh for operations uh we're anticipating 20 employees for this site uh which would be for Peak dinner service and about 12 to 15 on slower times the hours of operation are intended to be from 11: to 11: Monday through Wednesday and then we the applicant is requesting the the full 11:00 a.m. to 2 a 11: a.m. to 2: a.m. Thursday Friday Friday and 8:00 a.m. to 2: a.m. Saturday and Sunday although the anticipated operations are closure probably around 10 p.m. to 12: p.m. this use uh is uh in the B1 Zone District this lot um and of course as we know restaurant uses are permitted principal uses in the B1 Zone District uh the only uh pre-existing non-conformities is uh is the building height as indicated earlier this is a building that uh dates back well over a 100 years approximately 150 years the building height as it sits there today is 52 feet whereas three stories or 45 ft are required uh so that's relief that was identified in the co memorandum and then there's another variance for the minimum rear yard also pre-existing non-conformity um where there's zero foot it's right up against the property line um this application uh we intend to have some jazz music at the stage uh as part of this use um the owner of this building and the three and the two adjacent buildings is Jim Kavanagh Jim Kavanaugh's we were first before this board Village Brewing same team probably six or seven years ago now we then came to remove the TD Bank um from the parking area there was a kiosk for the tellers that was the last hearing and then I guess last year or the year before we were here for the conversion of some of the of the office uh into uh residential Apartments um I don't know if I mentioned this this is intended to be a vegan restaurant so we want to be very unique uh high-end modern with a full liquor license uh and a vegan menu vegan liquor yeah okay um with me tonight I have um Susan Dart and Dylan Cino from USA Architects to provide the the in-depth testimony related to the floor plans um we also reviewed the coal memorandum related to a concern about um refuse um and we've proposed what I'm going to enter into an exhibit as A1 um trash cart that would be uh able to temporarily sore some of the garbage before it moves over to the dumpster enclosure that dumpster enclosure was built as a condition of approval for the village Brewing site uh and we intend to utilize the what the new trash enclosure uh We've measured it's about close to 100 yards away so we're uh going to detail um a small area that we're going to fence in for temporary garbage storage as well it's uh ability to store any refu within the building when not being transported from the staff to the to the dumpster enclosure um we also have Mr Styers here from his firm in Somerville uh available to answer any questions although I don't intend to uh introduce them as a w as a witness unless there are questions related to site engineering again there's there's no uh no changes to the to the site um so I would ask that uh my two witnesses be sworn in Susan dartt D capital h a r t than you Dylan Cino uh last name capital c a t i n o thank you I have one question yes are we allowed to have the board of adjustment hearing without a Styer testimony no we not no it's in the ordinance it's in our master plan so Susan I I understand you're the licensed architect architect on this project could you just go over um your credentials and then uh describe um generally um the project and then we can get into some more testimony from Dylan yes I a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey since 2009 I've been working with USA Architects for 23 years so we are working on the fit out of the first floor in basement of the existing Bank building to turn into a restaurant Dylan's the senior designer who's been working on that so he's going to talk about it in a little more detail for you yeah so I'll just kind of briefly touch on kind of the big design elements in the focal points of you know what we're doing primarily to the exterior um so as you know the the building is is inherently kind of beautiful with it's its ornate detailing of the existing masonry um you know the it's in pretty excellent condition for knowing how old the building is um so as you'll see in the proposed images that we've developed um all of the exterior windows and the fenestrations are we're proposing to replace them um currently the the windows that are there now are you know wood framed single glazed they're you know out way outlive their life expectancy so the new windows would be you know thermally efficient thermally broken double pain glazing um and then as you could see too the you know this we feel this is going to be a more elevated dining experience right so um these the windows and and the kind of the finishes we we're thinking of a light bronze brass finish and that just kind of gives you that elevated feel and that flavor um and then with the with the restoration of that existing clock you'll also notice that there's there's those tones that are within that clock too so so these little nuances of these these kind of brass tones are going to be carried throughout the windows accents on the interior the design um and then you know as we move inside the building the the real you know the heart of it is going to be that Central bar which becomes the f focal point um the scale inside is pretty incredible we're looking at almost 17t ceilings um again which gives us that opportunity to have that kind of mezzanine dining experience um and yeah again as as was previously mentioned a small stage for live music um and then the back of the building is going to be all dedicated towards back of house kitchen um stuff like that um wow and then there pretty pretty incredible vault door that is you know to be put on display um within that space is going to be an an opportunity to have private dining and stuff like that so um yeah we're we're thrilled about this project and we think it's going to be a great addition to Somerville I've got a question right now where the windows open Windows on Maple Street will you be able to open them um so we're proposing to have them fixed yeah um I'm thinking noise right exactly yeah and you know the the STC rating of the windows will account for you know to try to keep that M that that that noise that's happening within to you know mitigate that from traveling outside so you have a liquor license yes there will be a full liquor license yeah where did where did the liquor license come from yeah's talking much to the sure grin of the oak group uh who we understand were we bidding on that liquor license I believe it was from the Japanese restur on Main Street you talking um okay Mr Kavanaugh uh who is the owner of this building and the two adjacent buildings unfortunately he's of a little Advanced age and he was unable to travel here tonight um he made uh made his uh cut his teeth in Morristown uh he owned several um high-profile buildings in Morristown he also owns the iron bar in Morristown uh he also owns uh the resolution and he has of course the building with Village in so he uh is the owner of the liquor license and he's partnering with another um business um man uh Chaz Stevens from Somerville um so it's a partnership I'm not 100% sure exactly what that partnership is um I I wasn't asked to prepare that portion of of the deal but um I can tell you that um Mr Kavanaugh is a very experienced restaurant and uh he's made some significant investments in in in the Somerville area uh including the restoration of those of those three buildings that he owns on Main Street and this is the final vacant space so we're very excited about uh this outfit and again it's a very high-end renovation of this space nice har can take the top seven feet off that building I guess you're not it's not in the plan that was humor house humor the bar the bar area looks really neat uh are there going to be TVs around so I um we have we haven't we haven't really had that conversation yet so to you know kind of find we're in the stages of really getting into kind of the the specifics with this project so but you know from conversations I don't think that's really the vibe right that we want to have with this particular restaurant so um but not sure if I answered your question but it's not a sports yeah exactly exactly I think the I I think the entertainment and the focus will be on uh the live music that would be displayed I could go vegan if the jazz is good yes yep small stage I just wanted to be sure whether that was a stage development or an actual stage okay anything else I'm curious did they require a cabaret license for that such think understand I don't think so and I know that uh Governor Murphy has been doing an overhaul on liquor licenses in the state I just don't know because of being a stage it changes things that's I'm just curious to say micro breweries also I don't believe there's there's any additional lenser for that but we and I the architect can testify this but we had to address that type of use in the bathrooms for the demand that could be there for you know the live entertainment but again it's you know really more of a jazz bar scene not a rock Club I love it yeah you mentioned the bathroom situation the basement you're G to have to comply with the state Coda and that's really going not do with us anyone else on the board have any questions of the testimony just given by um Mr Cino and miss the Hart anyone from the audience have any questions on the testimony just given testimony well the questions I have is the report I didn't hear anything in terms of I'm sure this HVAC is going to be screened it's not on the PLS the ducts exhaust all that Ro I just didn't see it there's nothing externally shown the building so yeah we're we're looking um kind of into uh the best location for for that unit um we were thinking um trying to conceal it up high on the roof in some area um yeah the hbac design is still in progress right now I do think there might be some potential to put the larger unit in the basement as well which would alleviate that issue so any HVAC equipment in public view will be screened I'm not sure if it's anything visible we would be screening and then the noise data you provideed whatever that turns out to be when it's sized can be provided yes absolutely yeah then I had a question about the roof leaders and not shown the internally just to make sure they're not tied into the sanitary sewer system um I just didn't see any external drains leers we're not aware of that condition but we'll verify that as the design progresses don't know where the roof leaders are just a standard condition is to making sure that some pumps and roof leaders not time that very understood and then I I had a comment on the cook I'm not sure you have cooking oil be used used cooking oil it was the village we had a remote pick up uh is that anticipated to have a deep fryer or I don't know that for sure at this time we're still confirming the menu and finalizing the equipment that's going in the kitchen okay but should you be a a deep fryer we would make accommodations do the similar to Village have a remote pick up of the what I'm just trying to avoid like we did in Village having used cooking oil tracked out to the dumpster location it always right Village we had a remote port and the tank was kept in the kitchen area and it just gets sucked out whenever that need arises okay so I'm not saying you're going to have cooking oil but should you have cooking oil that you put the provision in to take care of uh picking up the used cooking oil okay and I well I just I think um there was a question or comment about settled some of the pavers have settled so taking care of that we could just say if there's anything in the report we can go through each page or just say We'll comply with that there's not anything heavy in here but it's the basics take care of tripping hazards there was a comment on there about the whether the sign proposed projects more than 8 Ines because then you would need variance relief it doesn't you don't need variance relief comments about LED dimmable so we can just adjust in the field any for this the light we should be able to comply with all of those things yes and the storage in the basement the storage is quite large I'm assuming the question that we report was whether the storage is on for on site for the restaurant uh use yeah so the storage would be supplies for the restaurant there's a prep area down there too and then alcohol storage as well for the bar okay and it's what uh I think Mr O'Neal already said I put the UCC code in but you have to comply just to point out that the gender neutral does not appear to be allowed because of the OES Lo but again as Mr O'Neal pointed out you're going to have to comply I just want to make sure that if the plans need to amend that the board's okay with amending the plans with that slight Devi for example if you have to put a men's and women's room in the basement to change it the board's comfortable with that change being made without com back to the board absolutely right that's building Cod well that's what I'm saying make sure what I'd like to do is I bring in uccc comments to make sure that if things need to change that the board's aware of all this and uh that the applicants aware of what the construction department is interpretation of what needs to be done as it relates to this application understood Mr ogrodnik would the applicant be amendable to a condition of approval which would involve or entail uh compliance with Mr Cole's report uh that's acceptable to the applicant we went through it and we have no objection to the comments in Mr Cole's memorandum and that'll be condition of approval yes sir anyone from the audience have any comments on the application yes yes please come forward please give your name and address please I don't want to touch it hi um Seline Graves um 97 East Spring Street um and I just had a few questions um so sorry I to knock over here um my first question um is there a an Historic Society um in town or in the county that oversees um some of these types of uh Renovations or taking over a space that is older we have a historic advisory committee but they don't have any they we haven't gotten them involved in anything or they haven't been asked to be involved in anything okay um my other question would be um how would um resident how would someone appeal if we were concerned with the approval of this process of this um of this secure an attorney um is your response that the only method that someone would have to respond to an approval to put an appeal to an approval would be through a legal process that's what I hear you saying this is a legal process this is a Judicial body it's a quasi judicial body yes I I think what he's saying is that we can't give legal advice right but there is um at the moment um as confirmed by uh Monday's meeting there is no zoning officer in um Somerville and your point is correct yes he then how would we he is still here working parttime until his replacement come is up and running so he would be able to um respond to paperwork that that sort of that's unusual okay that so if I can help out Cliff how if if she wants to appeal this application after we approve it if we approve it if we approve it if we approve it what what is the process for her to go through to do that well the statute of limitations is 45 days from the date of publication of the notice of the approval and and so uh that's that's essentially the time within which you you can go to court um since this is not an approval by the zoning officer it doesn't fall under the category of the 20-day approval you would you would have to litigate you would have to litigate if the board were to yes yes you also have the op you also have the right to appeal to the to the Bur counsel right correct uh either either to them or to the Superior Court you know I my familiarity is with this this municipality has the provision to to appeal to the uh to the burough councel but in order to preserve your legal rights if you're going to take an appeal in court you would have to do it within 45 days of the decision of the publication of the decision by the secretary well but are you aware that um I I I I'm I'm just telling you what the law is right no that there's and so with if there were an appeal how what would the time frame generally be from when in appeal is presented to the burrow counsel to when that would be scheduled to come before this body I don't have that information that's should be a that should be a you know a local rule I think you can probably take it it would seem to me it's the same it's the same thing you would have to go I cannot give you legal advice on that I think the process is in the bur land use and development ordinance correct gives you the time frames in the ordinance for appeals that's on that's on a burough website yeah exactly I mean I I I cannot give you legal advice I'm sorry that's not my you know I I I was more asking about the standard um potential guidelin things often go not for your particular um I didn't mean to put you in a again this is one of the reasons why you know it would be it would be I think a good idea for you to have attor have an attorney he generally is generally not matters handled prosay right but it sounds to me like there is a standard procedure for um citizens to bring appeal to the burrow counsil and that that appeal would then make its way to you as a body and so it is it wouldn't come back to us it would not come back to the or it would it would the appeal to the burrow Council would be part of the process of which zoning is if someone were to appeal it through the burough Council or through Superior Court whatever they decide would not come back to us right to rear to relitigate it I mean I think I I I I need to say I don't want to be dismissive or anything like that but I think it's very difficult for you to come and ask us legal questions uh I would direct the board members really not to answer them just as I couldn't you know we can you can ask questions about you've talked about you know what do you have to do to appeal and things like this but I don't want the board to be in a position where anything it could say would be binding upon it so same thing for my end this is why we've said this is you know certainly in in comparable matters we've always we always instruct people to get to to to retain counsel right but it sounds like there are some procedures that I I just agree in order that you can fully and in order that you can fully understand them you should retain an attorney you're asking you're asking us to essentially make legal interpretations or legal advice and no no well yes you are and and I'm instructing the board not to not to do that so anything else U pertaining to the testimony just given by the application or the applicants no I don't okay thank you anyone else the audience have any questions or comments on the application summation uh thank you Mr chairman um I just wanted to underscore that um this application is does not necessitate any variances that are not pre-existing for several hundred years and they only relate to a pre-existing non-conforming structure and that is a very defined uh parameter in much of the case law that we talk about uh we're not exasperating any of the variances we're not increasing the number nonconformities in the structure think you mean exacerbating that's what I thought he meant yeah yeah so there no I'm just saying I think you mean exacerbate not exasperate there are a lot of things in the land you feel that are exas exasperating but not that agreed Mr gibons um so again this is a multi-million dollar investment in a permitted principal use on Main Street uh it's a building that's been vacant for probably close to a decade now yeah so um we would we would submit that um since there's no variances since the use is permitted um that that really makes the board um have some clarity on uh realizing um the goals of the master plan and again since we don't need any relief you know it's kind of an unusual application in that regard so we would we would ask the board to approve this application uh and uh continue stop talking yeah continue the restaurant use in don't alienate a friendly Camp thank you okay Cliff what do you have the only the the only condition that I have again is the co report um I I believe Michael's report very comprehensively covers this the board didn't articulate any other conditions seven feet they could cut that off there's no problem they made him do that in New York one time did oh you went up 10 stories you were only allowed five cut them down someone someone like to move the application second second any discussion yeah it's great can't wait go Jazz okay you had me at jazz really now you get some vegan pork roll we hey a day without pork is like a day without Sunshine that's all I think it's great I just want to make sure there FIB right y there's always changes on the job site we know that yeah right and but it's Mr sters didn't say anything I'm not sure it's legal R call please chairman yes M gpet yes Mr mlin yes Mr O'Neal yes Mr vsky yes Mr Flores yes Mr alz yes Carrie thank you very much what's that um restaurant number 54 in town now I'm serious highest density in huh well have you read the stats our downtown is rated number two in the state number 14 on the Eastern seab board our town is rated the fifth most desirable small town in New Jersey in which to live and come a long way we sure have is there anything else to come before the board I had a couple things one was um on January 1 Brian gave uh the planning board their marching orders for this year a deep dive into the uh master plan and to the zoning or ordinance and I've been looking at some things in my neighborhood that um really concern me uh so that was one of the things I'm G to bring before this board I'm going to do it as a private citizen if I can that these are things I want them to look at I'd like them to take a a look at uh Davenport Street the old um Joshua dowy lot field uh all those lots are non-conforming yeah well I mean between my church and the the two properties on either side we have less than 100 feet for three properties so everything's going to require a a a it's a C2 variant narrowness of lot they'll all the way down to Fair Street get it has to um the two properties next to my church are less than 3,000 square F feet so that's just so the board knows when the restaurants in downtown typically the door the policy is any change typically it's the planning board but in this case it was the height thing and the use of lot three which is a non-conforming similar to 4044 but generally it goes in front not generally any commercial kitchen goes in front of either this board or the planning board the policy is to make sure that the ventilation and Aesthetics does this stuff associated with commercial kitchen is addressed that's that's been the policy for 20 over 20 years so that's where you're talking about the screening up top screening the mushroom vents to make sure it's not too 10t off in a partment it complies with the state noise code basically that is that's the trigger commercial kitchens that in the Sid they have to come to either board typically it's the uh but this board just saw this commercial kitchen application it's unusual for this board it's typically the planing board but I'm saying the policy has been as long as I've been here that to make sure the commercial kitchen is not infringing on a neighborhood in terms of Aesthetics or noise or even smells cooking smells like the used wheel to make sure it's addressed so that housekeeping issues I would call it make sure basically being a good neighbor this this board typically doesn't see them uh that's but the commercial kitchen is what the kick is yeah the people say that it's just the nature of the Beast too high we set the the standards have been set and that's that's our marging orders yes the other thing um we were going to talk about a a conflict resolution planner but that application has been withdrawn so what I I me I I honestly think the property is going to be rezoned to make it Happ yeah going back to what rich said it's the lot three Rich it's not really the height Heights right but it's a lot I understand what you're saying I got to me a lot of should be it could but the statutorily can can the uh some they can exactly and if they can't then it's got to go to a board right and I get that okay the other I'm asking Brian as they're doing the U interviewing for uh John's replacement is that once that per person is up and running he's here at he or she is here at every meeting yes just as Vasa vosa was here Gary Huka M Carell that's part of the job everything we do is huh was entertain I know you everything they do everything we do is predicated on their denial exactly I me that should be addressing Rich when you raised the question why are we here it should be the zoning officer that addresses it that's the Catalyst it's not my office that's what I've been saying for a long time not I when it comes to get it gets kicked to a board then I get involved but the question you're raising is who's making the determination and what criteria they using in the past Frank came to every meeting in my opinion was very very helpful of course most of the people on the board here knew I mean it has been this I'm going back six seven years so for some of younger people but for some of the older Tim well you're young I thought it was very very helpful no I I agree was many municipalities do that they consider that part of the zoning officer duties exactly we got away from that and I I think it's it's hurt us okay those are just some of the things I've been talking about we're all the same page yeah I think so system work I think it ensures a closer relationship between the board and the zoning officer too there isn't a there isn't kind of a separation in other words we may do something and there may not be complete understanding from the standpoint of the zoning official I mean I get the reports out a week early so you can certainly ask me I'll don't please don't kill the messenger but I try to in report tell you how we got here so you can certainly the right but since as everything's in flux I'm certainly I will certainly we've had that listen Rich I'm just saying that look I no one wants a zoning office here more than me trust me any other business to come board someone like to move for adjournment EXC just yeah well I'll grant you that for now app okay please um it was oh was that shut off oh no um hi Selen Greaves again um it was indicated that to make an appeal um we should um um secure representation with from an attorney and I just wanted to clarify um if that is the only way that we're able to proceed with this um are you or is this is not um something that people are able to do prosay as the public remember what Abraham Lincoln said a man who represents himself as a fool for a client I I've appeared proos say in Superior Court several times and uh I wish I had an attorney I always won but it would have been easier with an attorney oh I agree that probably would be a lot easier otherwise but my concern is I don't know if the board is aware that anyone can appear that high c ordinance is operating in violation of town regulations of the state license and health department and we just we need we can't do anything it's not it doesn't appear before us there's no application before us there is an application but we were denied we were denied being um we were denied the um submission of the application U someone like to move move for move the second all in favor oppos thank you for your time can't give you