which he was paid that day he took uh his time or our time to criticize the public who made comments which he saw as negative he mocked those of us saying we don't know what a great efficient City we have and he praised you all I wouldn't say that you should take his praise because he's paid to be here and he earns his money on our Sky he's developing our sky filling our roads that's his job he does it very well and for him to put on a love show with you is not it's it's just motivated to keep the money flowing for him he doesn't really care about our citizens since he insulted us I think that I have a right to mention him there's nothing unusual about him but he doesn't have a right to criticize our citizen to make himself look good and the last thing I want to comment on is the city website finally has something about the vote it's very brief the destruction of our city hall is coming and who's going to tell us all the pros and cons of this project how should we vote if we're against the whole concept of destroying City Hall thank you thank you uh Mr Oley Bosch you're next on the list hi good evening uh odly Bosch I live at 5220 Southwest 60th place and here to more than anything like one of my fellow Neighbors in the unincorporated part of Miami day County that's bordered by South Miami want to thank you guys I'm an acre owner I own an acre in that area I'm kind of in an area where it's surrounded by the same type of property of which one of these is the one that's being proposed to be rezoned one in uh number 11 on your agenda and I just wanted to say that a couple of the folks here talking about different topics talked about intertwining communities and I was born and raised um in Coral Gables but near that Catholic church it's just on the other side of 57th in Miller and I grew up in a South Miami park at Palmer you know playing Little League baseball at it was called the corg South Miami Cory League there and we are quite intertwined that middle school is on a property that's owned by South Miami South Miami High however is on a property owned by Miami day County you know the 7-Eleven on the corner of 67th in Miller it's on a property unincorporated Miami day County but again it's intertwined in our community we in this area whether you being in Coral Gables in that section or in the unincorporated date part of where we live our downtown our closest city center is South Miami where we go to the movies where we eat lunch where we buy our groceries is city of South Miami I wish we were in city of South Miami because I'm seeing here today A lot of folks that are grateful for what you're doing for their constituents um you know namely the homeless movement and and this park that's going to I feel improve the neighborhood we talked about David Fairchild being part of that I am in that builtmore Heights neighborhood I'm part of the builtmore heights Association and mayor Commissioners uh City attorney city manager You Know Chief we appreciate all you do for all the surrounding neighbors of ours that are part of city of South Miami I wanted to only say that we don't only as a group that's here because I feel a lot of these owners that are here with us today are are owners of the acre lots we could very well be the ones that benefit from this type of change we could split our our lots and make four five six homes that would increase the value of I don't know what certainly wouldn't do it I feel for the impact of our neighborhood for the good um as so I was born 47 years ago in the in the community I I never new and mayor I heard you say reopen the road my my cousin lived at the end of the road on the other side I don't think it was ever open no you're you're correct that's the opening of the road I think was my question is that is that the main opposition yeah so yeah so my our position is for the rezoning of that property I I read a little bit I'm not a developer by any means but I read about what spot zoning is I feel this is exactly what that is this is spot zoning this is picking a a large lot that happens to be in an area where it's very desirable to live we love where we live and I feel that this is an example of that and you know quite frankly if if I had a perfect world scenario I'd remove the or alternative uh language that follows the opposition in the resolution um you know perfect worlds don't exist however you know more than anything we would want to at least for the neighbors that are here and the ones I've spoken to that own acre lots near this property we'd want to maintain and preserve all that green space all that sort of um Pleasant part of our neighborhood that we're enjoying today with our families we don't have sidewalks like parts of of our city do so we walk our dogs and our kids and strollers on the road and you know these are small roads to begin with this this I think would not only negatively impact your constituents that are in our neighborhood like this lady that just spoke before me that said she was a South Miami resident in our bmore Heights neighborhood um it would I think set a precedence that we want to avoid thank you if anything else you want to add for the record only that we're really grateful for all that you're doing for our we appreciate you coming this evening your comments yeah very thank you Mr BOS thanks uh Kathleen mlli good evening good evening I'm Kathleen moli at 5301 Southwest 60th place in fact I live directly opposite the gentleman who just spoke and uh I too uh strongly support um this resolution uh and both uh I oppose the the closing sorry the the opening of the street and also oppose um rezoning uh for for all of the reasons that uh Mr Bosch um just discussed and um I I think there are uh just going to be the domino effect could really be terrible with regard to the rezoning for exact exctly the reasons he said there are actually about um is there are 70 acres in builtmore Heights that have only one or few one house or fewer houses per acre so there if if there is a zoning change it could have a huge impact on the density of housing in a very quiet lush green sort of tucked away uh neighborhood uh so it's going to uh not just that resoning will not just to apply to the five acres uh in this application but to the entire uh neighborhood um and so for that reason I would uh also uh ask you to consider striking down the or in the alternative deleting uh condition number three uh that's that's there um so thank you for your comments okay have a good evening uh next up I think uh Stefan uh Richard no problem okay oh my apologies thank you um Xavier Williams sorry I'm having a hard time reading the handwriting Mr Williams seeing no one we'll move on uh we'll take Max G next please if you can come on up sir good evening hey good evening uh my name is Max gud uh my business is s for 40 it's here in South Miami the address 5829 Southwest 73rd Street and once I have a family of my own I will definitely make South Miami my address um so I'm here to to talk about uh resolution number seven uh it's the parking garage validation program for gym it's called I don't know if you reviewed it um I just I looked at it and I first I want to see if you have any questions but I I want to make an a change to it um but first I want to talk a little bit about the business and why uh why I'm here so first of all I'm super thankful that I was able to open this business here in South Miami for your support I we're already bringing over 120 people per day uh to the gym which is driving traffic to the area a lot of the owners around are coming to the gym my clients are going to the businesses around so the owner of footboards sativa uh Dan armur a lot of their employees already coming we're going there so it's that's been great uh but what I realized what I learned uh being a firsttime uh business owner is that uh parking uh for gyms is super important especially free parking so that's been a huge limiting factor that is not I believe it's not going to make uh the business profitable um so that's why I'm here to see uh to talk about the resolution and see if we can get not only what the resolution says now but if we can add the first free hour to be free so I can tell everyone that the uh parking is free and now I can bring more and more people and drivve traffic for everyone um and whatever that additional cost is I the iy would cover that cost so it's not an additional cost for the city so so I'm understanding you're you're suggesting that uh that first hour is an hour Mr riveral are you here can you come up for a second yeah right now the max are you going to stick around for the item if you can we'll take it out after public remarks maybe we can have a discussion about it then as opposed to right now is that okay so okay that if you can yeah let's do that so I I want to keep it's my first time here so no problem I don't want to keep the rest of the public waiting so Mr R we'll deal with that in a few minutes thank you all right thank you sir okay uro Chiari shout out to my mother-in-law's neighbors and thank you for help helping deciphering the first name I couldn't read hand I there and I goari you mean how are you listen thank you very much um for allowing us to be here in front of you I am a resident at 52 chaari 5245 Southwest 62nd Avenue I have an acre lot I I'm an unincorporated date I previously lived in South Miami off of 64th and Miller so I agree with odly Bosch and and and probably most of us that we would love the opportunity to be part of South Miami I lived it and I love it um I really appreciate the opposition of the zoning one of the reasons why we love the area and why we stayed in this area I've lived in the same zip code for 50 plus years and it's the greenery it's the green trees it's the shade it's being able to take our grandkids for a walk I do walk a little further north I make a right but I'm in a neighborhood that we really really enjoy and love um my kids went to play in Palmer Park so I know the area I love the area and I can't can't thank you enough for opposing the zoning because I know what it can bring I've seen what it can bring it's just going to bring trees are down it's just it's it's going to be unpleasant our area built more Heights is an area that people want to come into and I guarantee you 100% that it's because of the Greener it's the safe it's it's we can walk we can take our grandkids and enjoy the area so I would like to add to exclude for the alternative deleting condition number three okay as part of it and I thank you very much thank you for that can we can we discuss is it about this item he lives near there well let's let's let's pick up that conversation when we actually take up the item uh Mr miles black please for the north evening miles black I live uh 5951 Southwest 44th Terrace in Mii day district 7 my property is on the park most of you know this but for the record uh people need places for recreation cities provide parks for the residents from babies and strollers to kids after school and adults after work people need to get out and move to be healthy and happy South M parks serves the city of South Miami and day district 7 it's nestled right in the center of houses on three sides and David Fairchild to the north so it's very much a community uh location a neighborhood location um definitely needs bathrooms water fountains more shade trees um I think the improvements are probably overdue um the park did function really well in a much smaller capacity for probably 70 years so it's not about size it's about quality um so the proposed plan which includes um you know upgrades to the infrastructure and also has turf fields and lights seems like a little bit more than what the park needs uh plan makes about 80% of the field unusable on evenings and weekends and it does this while creating some negative impacts on the neighborhood um traffic noise and ambient light so essentially millions of dollars are going and uh the result for many of the neighbors is sort of like a punishment um we're going to have uh traffic running for about five hours after you know people get home from work there's going to be noise later under the new proposal and the park is basically going to have a single use for most of the time uh right now kids can't ride a bike in the streets after school because you know sport parents are racing in and out of the neighborhood they can't ride a bike in the park either because the entire space is pretty much dominated by a play to-play organized Sports the types of recreation aren't for everyone sometimes people just want to throw a ball or fly a kite or play some madeup game outside in the grass this field is the opportune place for all that and more so long as it is free to the public this park is essentially not available to many of the residents um so to the point I know it's been a long meeting I know you guys are well aware of most of our positions on this but uh I don't oppose the improvements I support it but I think the improvements need to benefit everybody this is a neighborhood park and a community park and put a nice soccer field maybe a lot smaller than what you have planned and it will reduce the negative impacts it'll be safer for players and residents and you'll have a much prettier environment for the future now this could have benefit the kids from David Fairchild after school the uh older residents in the neighborhood that aren't putting on Soccer Cleats anymore and you'll have a lot of money left over that can go where it's more needed and where it's more wanted thank you for your comments thank you very much uh Mr Jose Antonio Hernandez good evening hi good evening Jose Antonio Hernandez my address is there um I just wanted to I wasn't planning to speak but I was asked by NA a fellow neighbor who previously spoke uh to clarify so that it's on the record she had to leave that she is against the rezoning and she can send you a note um we'll take you your word okay thank you but I also wanted to Echo all of the fellow residents uh my our gratitude for what you're doing uh for item number 11 I also want to build on something that alib bash said about spot zoning uh there are more than 80 acres there are more than one 81 Acre Properties in that area it is not compatible what they're asking for with that area and that is not even being addressed uh on top of that there is no plan whatever they do today is is is irreparable we cannot change that and it's going to complete it's going to create the domino effect that everyone's uh talking about um I do want to acknowledge that you've listened to your constituents and we appreciate that and we're so thankful uh again um super important point we had over 200 Neighbors at the cab meeting every single one of them was against the rezoning that is on the record I need you to to to acknowledge that uh seap opposed this rezoning so it is not something that's going to be out of character for you two and so the one thing that we do ask is for you to strike the in the alternative and just go into denied across the board thank you thank you to the mayor yes sir Wason can you do me a favor and and let us know what currently the commission or the Miami day commission is reviewing and what's the date time and anything you can publicly put out there or I putting you on the spot no if if we knew I would share it with you this what is it currently right now so right now it was we were the Commissioners were supposed to hear this in December um it was postponed to January we got everyone together in the neighborhood we had a date uh we have buses people have asked to be bused to the commissioner's meeting at 9 o'clock in the morning uh it got changed again it got cancelled for February February got cancelled and it is currently in March that is all we know thank you thank you uh Mr Del Travis Williams almost good evening good evening my friend Javier evening Commissioners um City staff resident still Travis Williams my address is on the record um just recently celebrated a birthday last week turned 45 years old birthday um on that note seen a lot of changes in 45 years in this place I'm I'm going to remember H some Bakery going to kindergarten and smelling that bread um I want to talk about changes I know residents are here talking about a lot of the things going on in the neighborhood my neighborhood is a marshall Williamson neighborhood the black neighborhood I don't like that term but it's changing as of all around us s m is changing can't stop change change is going to happen it's inedible it's going to happen I want to talk about the public housing that's not the public hous I'm sorry the housing Workforce Workforce housing that's happening in my neighborhood I wanted to suceed I think in inclusion is good but I'm a little concerned about the prices and I say that because I know you some of you know but many guys all don't know I'm a veteran I moved went to the Navy 97 came back 2011 almost 15 years and I come back to my city get a job at the VA and I'm right at the threshold of not being able to stay in there I'm mentioning this because I want to stay here this is my home my fourth generation soft Miami and I'm not the only one that's concerned there's a lot of us concerned I've been to both of the meetings we've had I had one tonight we had one two weeks ago I'm going to work with the CEO and the people that are building it I think they want me there too um but I'm concerned about my residents I'm concerned about my neighbors I'm concerned about these families I've known who like I said predate this city when you do right by everybody not just the people that work for housing or people that can afford market price we need to do right by everyone and like I said I want this to succeed it it's it's beautiful it's it's it's well needed and you know like I said you know change is inedible nothing we can do about it but if we're going to do it let's do it right thank you thank you for your comments okay uh anyone else in the chamber who would like to address this Commission in public remarks Mr Reed come on come forward we got three people onine I know just thank you so much gray Reed 6820 South 64th Court I'm simply here to announce the unveiling of the unity wall here we go at 62nd Avenue and 64th Street um on Saturday February 19th 10 o'clock in the morning come out to celebrate the um the unity of our community so the the unity wall I hope you've seen it as you've been driving by that it was the brainchild of United survivors a group of uh six women three black three white who came together to reach across the racial divides in our community and uh so Gail Alexander is the artistic um author of the wall and uh so many people have come out we've had a couple of painting there she is in the back yeah U we've had so many people come out over over a few Saturdays to help us paint so it's really been a a marvelous experience and the uh Financial backing came from Jerome Brown we also thank our mayor Javier Fernandez commissioner Brian Cory and commissioner Steve Kay for their support for this for this project and we will also show a digital reconstruction of the main Street of black South Miami as it looked in the 1960s based on the memories of some of the residents who grew up there and remember it as a lively Vital Center so that is a part of the part of the whole presentation again Saturday the 19th 10 o' 62nd Avenue 64th Court celebrate the unity of our community there we go thank you gray and thank you Gail okay oh Michelle thank you was as well 17th [Laughter] 17th okay Saturday the 17th just one more time anyone else in the chamber who' like to address please come forward thank you and again if we just get your name and address for the record please abut thank you good evening I am Sabrina Newville I am my address is 6090 Southwest 62nd Place I have been a resident of South Miami for almost 40 years I apologize for never showing up to any meetings because I was still a child so I thought but I'm a grownup now and I have to really face those things but my my question comes with clarity as far as um the apartments that are being built and who they're for I've been hearing a lot of my neighbors or friends have communications about it I just heard a gentleman speak and the one of the things that stuck out to me he said was he already had inquiries from um well every apartment that was built built from Valencia to Red Road um was never included and I just see that happening all over again for people just to um be displaced we're talking about I just came up here after somebody who spoke about a wall of unity and I just want to feel that now I feel it in my neighborhood it's very mixed I love my neighbors but I want people that I grew up to feel that too and I don't want them to be excluded so I just wanted to be given Clarity on how those apartments are going to be I see the paperwork I'm not good with the um the terms that you guys use but I just kind of want to just plain like who's it for what we're going to do and I just want to I just want to understand it in totality I the best I can offer you because we it's not a project that we have purview over contractually it's a project that's on Mi County leasehold my understanding is that they're uh they have negotiated lease that requires them to replace all all the public housing units that were on the site so essentially any family that was living there before can return to a fully subsidized unit in the project number one uh and then they're opening up units at various income tiers affordable this had nothing sorry to they had nothing to do with South Miami this was a Miami day thing no we we what we app what we I believe approved and it wasn't we in this current board the prior board approved the I believe the site plan for both phases is my the City attorney may have some knowledge it predated his tenure here but I believe that's accurate we can follow up further for you if you like offline um that is correct mayor thank thank you commissioner Le and yes our institutional memory here and so you know my understanding of the project it has units that are supported with tax credits for people earning 30 to 60% of Ami so we heard 80% is $56,000 or below uh and we have uh units above that at the workforce levels up to 120% and then I believe there are some Market units what the distribution of the units across those income teers are I I don't know so okay I'm satisfied and I too I know you haven't seen me but i' I've I see where my standard of living is I love South Miami I appreciate you guys I'm not here but behind closed do I'm sure it's a hard job thank you so much thank you Sabrina anyone else sorry anyone else in the chamber who'd like to address I'll give you okay thank you please come forward your name and address to the record please good evening my name is we dvat owner ofan vilia old Florida Tavern 7221 Southwest ASF Avenue I am co-owner with nich leat who was not able to attend so I'm talking on in his in his space I'm addressing item number 17 which is uh allowing of food truck vendors to come as the owner of Bugan Ville is Florida Tavern for last 24 years we witnessed the challenges facing the businesses in the city of South Miami the recent reduction of operating hours along with abandonment of shops such as Sunset Place loss of businesses such as Taco craft which just uh went away is making South Miami less attractive to other areas such as Coral Gables Coconut Grove Windwood and downtown we want to see South Miami have a vibrant night life uh introducing a new law to allow late night food options would Breathe new life into the community it would allow us to have a diverse AR options for late night as you know we have a bar that runs late night and we want our customers to be able to eat food that's going to help make it more safe for the community um addressing the limited food options after 10 p.m. provides additional reasons for customers to spend their nights in South Miami instead of some of these other areas and makes a responsible choices for safer nights safer night night life environment as we know individuals who eat before consuming alcohol will sober up more quickly and promote more um responsible so social socializing and because the proposal restricts food trucks to late night hours it wouldn't compete with existing uh establishments we really do think that this is a good proposal that would help bring South Miami uh nightlife and entertainment options for CI and competition with other areas that exist in Miami thank you for attending we appreciate the comments thank you okay okay uh anyone else in the chamber before we close public hear public hearing here in the chamber come forward I'll give you I'll give you 30 seconds go ahead please Kath mol again I just wanted to be clear about one matter related to uh the resoning application and that is uh maybe you are aware of this or maybe not but if more than five houses are built on that property on that 5 acre estate then uh it's my understanding that the U 60th place that street that street leading into 60th cour has to open because to to provide emergency access um you know for fire trucks and ambulances and so forth to a larger community so um if if the resoning is permitted almost de facto the street will have to open but if they just uh if the zoning remains what it is now five houses then then that's everything is fine it's just once you go above that number sorry you said once you go above five or once you go above five some people say sometimes times the city the Miami day will make an exception if it's six but the bottom line is the the uh developer wants to um my understanding is build at least a dozen houses so if if he basically if the resoning changes at all uh that Street opens up it will have to okay thank you for your comments okay okay seeing no one else in the chamber well uh Madam clerk is there anyone online who'd like to speak oh sorry m g my apologies thank you mayor thank you commission and I'll be brief we've been here late and thank you for your time um I just wanted to comment there's been a lot to unpack here and I really appreciate everything you all are doing uh making a referendum on a property that you don't have perview on is really interesting and I hope that all of these residents that don't belong to South Miami when a referendum comes up for an annexation or a uh joining the city that they'll all be in crate support since you've supported them so much um in reference to the uh Park I didn't think that it was important important to note that not only the commission but the different boards like planning board and environmental preservation board have gone through an extensive gruelling of light distribution and the process that has happened on that and I think it's important for the citizens that are concerned to know that that has been taken into consideration the thousands of children that play there today are suffering injuries because of the condition of that Park maintaining the grass the way it is is a challenge many of the public parks in the county many of the public schools in the county many of the private schools in the county have gone to Turf I think we found that it has been an improvement to the athletic process and to the children and our children our families are the future of the city so I want to make sure that we can help that move forward thank you thank you for your comments okay Madam clerk I'm sorry Hi good evening good evening I'm Deborah Powell and I have a very quick announcement I'm here representing on behalf of the South Miami Black Culture Affairs we're having a South Miami Unity Festival uh seems like it's going to be Festival Saturday I you can start out with the rotary Festival that morning and continue the party at the unity Festival which will be from 2 to7 at the Gibson bethl Community Center we're going to have deep fried frunk which includes Jazz Rock RB so we'll be having a wonderful musical uh day that day and we hope that you can make that start with the rotary festival and then end with the unity music festival at Gibson belal thank you thank you for your work on that okay one last one last anyone else in the chamber okay oh Michelle come on okay Madam clerk uh I believe I see Katherine guito online can you unmute her please Katherine gito you can unmute yourself there good evening hi good evening everybody can you hear me okay we can thank you okay thank you uh thank you mayor uh vice mayor commissioner um I think you've seen me all many times before uh massively supporting the South Miami Park this really is a gem but it's a gem of a Soccer Academy and this Academy provides children ages 4 to 18 with the opportunity to play in our community without single moms like myself having to drive to other areas you heard my son come and stand before you in the meeting last month they can't kick a ball straight because they're not kicking on grass they kicking on soil and stones and rocks and there's going to be injuries if we don't address this sooner uh rather than later the lights we've been using obviously for many years we do welcome all of the changes and developments that have been proposed I really do believe that the turf is the better option we do not have the resources for a team of five or six people and I know people tried to compare into Miami and hard rock and grass facilities where there's a full team of people that I watch take care of grass we do not have those options unfortunately and what we want is a safe uh environment for our children to play I believe that turf or hybrid options are very good and very available that should be considered but I think that we need to do this sooner rather than later because we've been at this now for years I think I've been coming to support this and I would love for my son and for his friends and the other children that play at that part to have the opportunity to play before they age out and have to move on to colleges and move away from the area uh I really do want to see South Miami development happen in the next year so that we can all take advantage of this wonderful Community uh facility and not have to travel to other areas like Pine Crest and Coral Gables where the children are often having to go to because they can't play in a safe environment in our own community thank you for your comments we appreciate them all right thank you thank you for your time I see Mr Kevin Testo if you can unmute yourself please Kevin Tes yeah good evening Kevin Testa uh 4990 Southwest 64 please um I was I was a benefactor of the newly placed poo Park and can attest to what has happened to the neighborhood once a new park is added and the benefits of the artificial grass we had lights put in um changed the dynamic of the park gave us a meeting place so tremendous supporter of what's being proposed at South Mi Park my sons also play at that Park they ride their bikes uh from poo park over to that Park um and to see what a real Park could be versus what we have at South Miami um it gives me great hope for what we're trying to accomplish at South Miami Park so um tremendous support and whatever I can do to help the commission and help the city advance that I'm really looking looking forward to uh to to using the new park thank you for your comments thank you I see Rie Pandi please if you can unmute yourself good evening sir good evening um any everybody can hear me yes we can okay good evening uh mayor commissioner and ladies and gentlemen um uh I want to bring up to two items number seven and number 17 first was brought it up uh mayor is about the parking I saw when gentleman was talking about it um I we have a one venue P 52 in South Miami it's been four years is a very decent classy venue I believe you did your two parties over there and you got elected so yeah he a lucky Chan for you that's what I'm just kidding um the parking is gentleman made is a good uh good um proposition he's making it but it has to be for everybody not for Jim it's it's a it's uh it need to be recognized the pub has at least 150 to 200 people come in Friday Saturdays for the that's why we are still floating over there because a large venue and parking is a challenge uh for and for the employees as well so and I'm not sure that and as a businessman I know the city also has to need to Bud uh balance their budget so I'm not sure how they can do the totally free for everybody but if it's possible subsidized parking I think it can uh it can more welcome at least for employees J employ maybe employed two or three no offense to gentlemen two or three employees maybe more mostly attendance we have 25 to 30 employees works in the P 52 in a given time and weekends when the uh the place is busy so in that matter yes if uh if parking is going to subsidized need to be subsidized for everyone uh that's that's what the first sest second is agenda number 17 I understand the Boogie went and talk about it I get that his part but there's no shortcuts the way I see it you want it you can build the do it a whole oldfashioned way put half a million qu quarter million and build a kitchen and cook because under of the reason the reason behind is the we the the pub and uh saiche and the Italian guy and the further down restaurant we have expenses we have a variable expenses fixed expenses that's what we are there over there and we are the way we are still bearing it when the city is trying to build their way to the next chapter so that is important for me food truck first of all food trucks are by they said 10 p.m. the pub makes money on the weekend that's why we still there because large venue and we close kitchen around 11:30 they're going to kill the business of savich lover or whatnot very soon very quickly very fast and that's I will not tolerate I'm not forgive me I'm not trying to be very aggressive because that this is a shortcut the shortcut is and after 1:00 being an operator been I have restaurants hotels and whatnot in in South Florida after 1:00 nothing good happen in any communities is like look into the South Beach they're shutting down the the way ear mons they keep doing it for what not so I want boogies to do good I like I I always support them for L of them I commend him when he went to take care of his uh business during the covid but the hustling is good but the hustling too far which going to affect the other people that kind of is concerned to me uh mayor because it has to make sense because it has to make sense for the rest of the people those who are paying more taxes more employing employe and employed employees reie I think we have a question for you so Mr K did you want to yes go ahead Raj let me ask you a question are you uh you do you do takeout at your facility no we don't do takeouts you don't we somebody can pick up the food but we do not deliver that's for sure but they you they can pick up they can pick up yes is it something that's amable to put your menu at different facilities so they can you know cross market and maybe order stuff at your facilities is that feasible yeah they I'm not too sure I cannot I have to talk to my general manager and the corporate Chef to figure that out because I'm I'm I do not make decision right away on the time you know so that I can discuss with them we can do that but we can take it off thank you Raj I have one question as well and that is uh again we're not we hours that are proposed are fully intentional to avoid conflicts with existing brick and mortar establishments so obviously apparently your kitchen stays open later than most that I'm aware of um just want to get your feedback on whether if the hours of operation were pushed to a later start time whether you'd still have the same objection I would it's listen I I believe in everybody should prosperous okay even I'm the first person I'm a gentleman I don't remember I congratulate him when he able to save his business in boogies uh I because I'm that kind of person the torra is closed right now is bothers me more than anybody else because that corner is Ghost right now so I pull the ear of Spencer I say you better find a person not the highest bidder find a damn person who's a good operator on the area who familiar so we can fill the street up and he agrees with me so he's uh he's working on some good operator I know I think hopefully it will be good I'm okay if it's after 11: :30 11:45 or 12:00 if they have a business I'm I'm but not 10:00 because 10:00 and I uh mayor I don't Mr Mayor I don't have a time to police over there I I'm bar I go over there once a week or twice a week and whatnot so I don't have a time to police uh uh and I'm sure the rest of the owners of the restaurants as well we want boogies to do good we want them their stap place for for last 24 years over there what not it's fine but 10:00 time is is too early and too soon because because it's it affects our operation if they want it with all du respect they can pull a permit there's a huge slot in the UND understood understood appreciate that feedback thank you sir thank you thank you uh Mr Bren Fifer if you can unmute yourself please uh hello good good evening and thank you for taking the time to listen to the the people who live in the community uh around the South Miami Park Park I live at 4410 uh Southwest 60th Place uh you know I I I understand that people's uh want to uh have upgrades to the complex and facilities at that park for uh the people who play soccer there although I think some careful consideration needs to be given to the homes that actually surround immediately surround that Park and I I hear the concerns of Miles black and the other neighbors that actually have properties that bordered on the uh on the edge of that uh proposed complex so I'm not opposed to uh uh upgrading the facilities um and adding new things but I think some considerations about the scope of that project and how large it needs to be uh should be considered especially for the people of the community thank you thank you for your comments okay mam Clark is there anyone else online that I missed anyone else on Zoom like to speak please raise your virtual hand no okay seeing none we'll close public remarks uh colleagues just because we have some folks in the room on those items uh with that objection I'd like to take up item uh 11 Madam clerk could you read that resolution to the record please yes item 11 a resolution of the mayor and City Commission of the city of South fora opposing Miami day zoning application number Z to 022118 filed by Garcia cillo 56 Street r loal trust for the resoning of the property located at 5979 Southwest 56 Street Miami day County Florida particularly opposing recommended condition number three which seeks dedications to establish a new Street connection between Southwest 54 terrce 6th Place in 60th Court urging the Mi day board accounting Commissioners to deny the appeal of zoning applications number z222 00118 or in an alternative deleting condition number three of the staff recommendation which seeks dedication to establish a new Street connection between Southwest withp Terry 60th place and 60th Court thank you for that Madam clerk before we entertain a motion is there are there any questions to the City attorney for the administration on this item no questions I get the mayor yes sir if can you speak to what so it's public uh the I've been seen I heard a lot of requests for the mod or the strike on the verbiage that we had used can you just quickly speak to that what that would do sure so uh actually why don't you can you can you I think if I can just rephrase your question can you speak to the form of the resolution is it a is it a urging for a denial and in the alternative they choose not to deny at least D strike condition three correct it is it is it is SE yeah it is urging the County Commission this is a County Commission application this is Miami D County jurisdiction property just North of city of South Miami property um it's South Miami is on the south side of Miller this is on the north side of Miller um the the resolution is urging the County Commission to deny the application number one uh particularly because of condition number three which uh is the condition which is requiring a dedication of land in order to connect uh those two streets the uh the the 60 it's it's a curve street right um at that point and then and then there's a there's a street that goes northward and I I guess the uh the the concern is that it would encourage cut through traffic to through the neighborhood to the South um in terms so what it's saying is it's opposing the application because of that and then it's saying if the county is going to approve it strike that condition um there was some discussion uh I think raised this evening about if it's more than certain a certain number of units that the county will require it there is a provision in the county uh plating uh regulations that requires a secondary means of of egress it's for emergency vehicles um but it can be waved so that it's not and and I don't know what they have been told and and the county may have already taken a position but there's nothing in the recommendation that that would that would speak to that so I'm just putting that out there as as kind of the what we know at this point um does that answer your question okay further questions would it be possible possible if we didn't do that what everybody's saying to exclude it or do the end or would it be possible then to highlight that number three as like we really we don't want any of this but we really don't want that because right now it sounds like an Andor that's how it's intended to be styled I think as it was drafted it's intended to be a statement against the application in general but if they're inclined to approve it the resoning at least not required condition three to be correct attached to the request correct okay so that's why the Endor is there I just wanted to highlight that for the purposes of the people here in the public yeah further questions okay I I have a question because I and again I apologize I don't know exact the exact conditions but do we have another multi-acre assage that um touches upon the same street there's one right down uh just to the east of this property so I just want to be clear because I my my my concern is I don't want to give people false hope I we want to support our neighbors in this but potentially if both if both properties decided to subdivide their respective lots and in total equaled more than five or six homes they might be still required to open that street whether we took a position in adverse to it or not well so so this one is that a possible no no I don't I think the the pro the the multi-acre assemblage is further east it's on a different street okay what I want to conf I just didn't want to do something that could be easily circumvented or defeated okay okay okay that's fine so any further questions no and and and I just was trying to clarify with commissioner gaaya because I know he lives in that area and I didn't know if he lived in actual Bitmore Heights I do I know that that that affects you as well it does not favorably I I've walked your neighborhood it's an awesome place sorry it's an awesome Place y'all okay commissioner Le any questions sir uh no just just some comments so again okay I'm GNA support the Commission list have no trouble voting on this we're spending a lot of time on this when this not not a South Miami issue we are charged with representing the residents it's fine we try to help the greater good we should be clear on on a couple things we only have so much political Capital so this does come at a cost There's an opportunity cost this the more we're going to ask the county for the less we'll receive for our own residents who we are charged with representing who pay taxes and so forth we all we all know this this is not debatable the more you asked to County for the less to receive that's one point the other point is is traditionally it's the more you people believe the more you ask for Memorial Gad right start H that's not really the case with the county your point May or I think it's the point you were trying to get at earlier you have to be very poignant if you ask for two or three things it's much easier to say no across the board if you ask for one specific thing such as closing the street not that it's likely but it's more likely than getting uh than getting everything and when the county looks at this they also look at as well here's South Miami trying to extend their reach beyond their their boundaries so again I'm fine supporting this but we should all be cognizant of the the facts I just mentioned all excellent points further comments if there's a motion I'll entertain one is somebody going to go first to I'm going to do it no ma'am any sorry no but thank you I propose we move the item second have a motion by vice mayor Bon to Second by commissioner Corey any final comments before we vote uh so we do we is this the motion with the strike or it's not intended should we I I the motion I the motion is to approve the item I'm assuming as presented do we want to modify that motion or modify the item I'll move the motion to add the the modification so You' like to uh offer a friendly I know you already have a first like offer a friendly Amendment to the resolution to strike the alternative and just oppose the application yes okay does the second or accept the modification no unless it's for discussion okay you want let's let's have a quick discussion on commissioner gu's request you want to make your argument sir well my argument that's my neighborhood so it's it's collectively that they unified and they're very tight and you know I'm going to stand no we we are we are we are supporting denial so I just want to um I'm still be supportive obviously I'm just saying if it's consideration I would love to have that out there as well okay so looks like there's no motion looks like the seconder is not supportive I don't know if he wants to withdraw his second and let you second an alternative how do we want we have a motion do you want to keep your motion um I I have a question if we didn't word it this way how would we word it so that we end up with something for consideration if they're looking to strike I think his preference would be just to have a straight recommendation to deny and have no comment on any of the conditions I think with the the mo the the resolution of styled was intending to say we're not in favor of it but if you're going to approve it at the very least don't stick them with opening the street that's how I interpreted the the resolution through the through the mayor City attorneys is that how you I mean that's how we all I'm not doub so there's there's two two ways to that you can you can do if you want to you can strike just that section that says or in the alternative right and leave the reference to condition three in the main opposition opposition to this particularly condition number three you know that way you're drawing attention to to that or you could just say opposition with no particularly anything I I would say the first option that's just my opinion particularly number three M okay if that's okay with the commission okay we have a motion do you want to withdraw your motion restate your motion and see if there's a second for it I'll restate to whatever Steve wanted okay okay so we have we have uh a request to withdraw in I guess it's section two of the resolution uh it would be the the the second Clause of it and in terms of the section it would just be yes so I think we' be modifying section two section three section section three or section I'm sorry so just so I'm clear modifying section two or section three because I thought section two was dealing with the application of the condition and then there was a section three in the resolution that dealt with a condition as a standalone section section two is the opposition and then opposes any new uh section two hereby opposes the application particularly condition number three and then it continues it says the P the city opposes any new connectivity between these streets and then section three would be modified uh the second Clause of section three which says or alternatively to adopt the application without condition number three that's what would be deleted okay I'm clear so we have a motion by commissioner sorry vice mayor bonich did that again just Lisa there you go Lisa okay is there a second to her restated motion just I'm in a second if you're second by commissioner Caye okay and okay he might have a comment though yes sir you have a comment on the yeah I just wanted to comment that I am in opposition to the resolution I do believe the original one has a better chance of avoiding the real egregious offense here which is making that that cut through Street which is why I wanted to support the original one but I am in opposition to it so I won't oppose it the the approval of the amended resolution okay he is in opposition to the original Mo you're going to vote in favor of this item as modified okay perfect and now I'm clear uh commissioner leedman any further comments or are we good okay with that Madame clerk if you can call the role on the motion as as the on the item as amended yes commissioner Cay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner lemman yes Vice bones yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 5 Z as amended thank you so uh moving on if we can address item is it if we can take item nine before we uh hear a motion on item are there any questions of Mr Grace regarding the request for support for the festival yes okay so Mr Grace would you come on up want me to read it first or if you could read it please thank you thank you for keeping me on track item n a resol of the city Commission of the city of South Florida authorizing the waiver of certain event related fees and costs in the amount of $ 694 pursuing to section 15 B6 of the city code for a special event known as South Mami rotary art art festival presented by not rotary Foundation of South Miami to be held on Saturday February 24th and Sunday February 25th 20124 on Sunset Drive from US1 to 57th Avenue thank you I before before we uh open up for questions I just wanted to quickly let maybe level set the request um I suggested this arrangement in terms of support uh my rationale was number one I think we overstate the parking Revenue that's being waved we discussed this before by my calculation our direct investment either in wave fee wave Revenue actual Revenue that we would receive from parking receipts or and in cash would be just uh in excess of $118,000 so I wanted to level set that I know the resolution represents a much larger number but those are indirect fees for for you know that we but it's not Revenue that we're for goinging so but with that any questions of Mr Grace by any members of the commission through the May yes sir um thank you so much and my understanding is that you are new kind of to this you know organization as you know taking over and taking it to this next level is that my understanding or you've been you know kind of around this Festival okay for some reason someone told me that there's new group of you guys that are trying to do something different which I hear you guys are um and maybe misunderstood so I apologize U what what are we doing from a publicity perspective PR communication I haven't heard or seen much yet from from the Rotary on on the new somi and the new development I know uh we have a lot of people that would love to help uh this commission base is really resourceful on helping as well um so what what what we what what what have we done to kind of start publicizing that since it's so close to that date right so this is the time frame that we really put the push on for the advertising so you'll see it in community newspaper I think the ad broke today in community newspaper um it'll be on uh the local radio stations that we advertise through um the banners that that we have and we've got the banner going across um Sunset um right out front um which will be going up I think next week by um by statute it can only go up so many days before the event um and then all of our print advertis advertising in the SOI magazine um and and the the different local um news print um that that we have that we advertise and we spend about we spend about $35,000 in advertising every year for the event um of that are we doing a a specific push on digital we have a huge following um through digital um through Facebook through um Instagram um all of the social media platforms we highlight our artists we highlight the city we highlight our sponsors um all of whom you know participate in activities throughout South Miami I'm assuming we're also in the newsletter for South Miami you we are we've met with we've met with the the advertising team uh for the city to strategize on um co- advertising great and if there's any publicity that we have or any marketing that we're also to publicize our parking garage so it's clear that that is an Avenue people can go park you know centrally located to Sunset and people can easily get in and out of that is that something we could do for for for the city of South Miami yes and on top of that um all of the the the two stages that we have also list all of our sponsors of which the city of South Miami um will be listed there um for everyone to know that the city of South Miami helped sponsor this event um and um we want to be great Partners uh with the city on all of that and we're looking forward to that thank you thank you further questions Mr Grace can you just highlight very quickly uh some of the Outreach you've done with local business to get them Incorporated whether it's restaurant existing establishment just to get them involved in the festival itself sure so we have um you know at least one restaurant is actually going to come out to the street and be a food vendor for us um they're a little bit off where you know Sunset so they're not quite in the you know the direct reach of of our of our uh constituents so we made them the offer to be a vendor and to come in and sell their food uh with our other food vendors and so this will be the first time that that has happened so they're they're really um eager to do that as are we we follow the same rules of closing the street down so we've been to all of the merchants in our um in our program book we Are listing every business in the city of South Miami um because we want to promote those businesses and one of the reasons why we want to stay open until 9:00 with music and entertainment um is so again we can have that spill over you know when you get 20,000 people that come into the city during the day what a shame that they leave at 6 o00 when the tents go down um we want them to stay and and that's why we are really pushing the musical venue on the street in hopes that they visit the restaurants when the the artist close and that they visit the establishments as well further questions uh commissioner leedman recognized uh thank you um and uh thank you sir sir first question um and thank you for your service uh what what is the name of the restaurant that is participating Sports Grill sport okay so so sir please let me correct you that that restaurant is not in South Miami so and now how vendors do you have selling food um we have uh three other vendors total so total so four food vendors correct and we we intentionally don't have have vendors that currently are serving the type of food that they will have okay thank you and then and it's okay if you don't know or you don't answer but do you are you familiar with whether or not chamber South is going to continue to have an art festival chamber South hasn't chamber South hasn't had their Art Festival since before covid and they they are not planning on doing it I'm also a member of chamber South so I know that they're not planning on doing but I can't necessarily speak for their future thank you further questions M vice mayor okay um is there a motion on the item move actually yes Comm yes the applicant but I yes I'd like to discuss this with the commission sure go right ahead why don't you open up the conversation so so certainly so one thing previous commissions agreed with me on is what I never really understood was waving money sort of in the in the form of a eBay where the city will wave let's say $20,000 and then an applicant will let's say offer $110,000 in scholarships to the city I'd rather wave less the city acts like a charity and countless ways just Litany of of you know charitable Endeavors that the city is involved with so as opposed to the city waving money that's it's essentially making a donation to another organization to then make donations within this within this city or in the surrounding area that's one thing that never made sense to me um the other thing never done in my 12 years in this day is and mayor I know you said that we're not going to wave as many fees as proposed in the ordinance so I'd like that to be clarified one thing we've never done in 12 years we've never waved uh police fees um outside of a of course the city city event so I I I do not want to start doing that now I'll vote the same way I voted the last 12 years which is to wave what we've waved consistently the last 12 years and then the other thing I'll say is I know we want to attract ents but um it's it doesn't benefit the retailers and it doesn't benefit the local restaurants and restaurants aren't in a position to move their brick-and water kitchen into the street I know that was a solution that was offered many years ago but restaurants just aren't in that position and then they were even offered free space they don't they don't have the cooking facility they don't have the staff and it um creates competition and then people who shop on the weekends at the local boutiques aren't able to go there naturally because of the traffic so it's just something that the commission needs to think about is whether or not it's a positive economic impact um before you start waving significant fees because the fees that were proposed in the item are significantly more than anything that's ever been ever been waved so we have to ask ourselves at what expense yeah I I just want to mention one thing okay Madam vice mayor go ahead I think waving indirect fees is something to have a discussion about but direct fees things that are essentially already you know they're being covered by us and by our residents I I don't feel comfortable waving that so I understand the conversation that is being had about the parking meters and at $100 and is it this is it that I I the the one that started the fight of the parking meters you know we're sitting right here it's the two of us and so it wasn't a fight it was no I'm saying we were fighting for showing a real cost and and so I I think it regardless of whether we want to look at it at the $100 or at the $33 it is something to wave but I think waving are our actual hard cost doesn't make any sense to me okay further comments yeah so for the record what does the hard cost right now I think it's like 80 something yeah it's here no it's uh yeah it's here it's it's it's it's it's less than it's less than $14,000 and now we're not now again this proposal does not let's let's be clear it's not we're we're we're basically giving them a grant I mean of half of that amount essentially right we're not giving them the money we're not requiring them to pay the full 100% so they're they still have an out of- pocket cost you know from my perspective the reason I proposed it this way I share your concern about waving those direct costs it is a real expense for the city but you know uh I I don't know that any of us put 200 hours into any one thing in South Miami and this group of volunteers does they're very committed here as Mr Grayson do not work here he's got a full-time job running a very complicated school and organization and so and I know that they're trying to grow this event to drive more energy and activity onto our main street we don't have many Signature Events uh we had a conversation on an item where the event that we had just a week ago is extraordinarily profitable for the sponsor and we were talking about waving fees in that case uh whether they're direct or whether they're direct or indirect uh indirect fees so you know I know different impacts different benefits but uh you know this is an event that you know highlights the city I think in a very positive uh way which is the Arts I think it does have spill over benefits we can argue what those are maybe we should study them frankly going forward but I think it's a very very modest investment of our part of you know $7,000 in change to basically try to curate another event to drive activity into our town center that was my rationale for doing it I leave it to you all to say whether you want to support it or not yes sir no I'll just follow up I'm sorry commissioner leem um I'll just follow up with with saying that look we we we here on the commission know that we want to make some changes in the downtown area and that changes is going to cause a lot of construction a lot of heartache and this is an opportunity to still bring 20,000 people on a weekend where in a normal weekend we're barely getting anything right now because of what's been going on over the last 10 years so I'm all for it um to to move forward I on the contrary I want to support it as much as we can we want to grow it we want this to be not only 20,000 I want it to be 30 and 40,000 as we move forward I want you know not to music venders I want three different stages you know I want I want to grow it where we continue to have this positive outlook look in our community and in our city so I I'll leave it at that can I just say something I just okay let me go if I can we'll go back around the horn I think commissioner Cory has not said anything I'll recognize commissioner leben who had his hand up and I'll go back to you madam vice mayor okay that yeah I'll just mention that obviously this we don't have a key event this seems like it would be ideal in our general discussions that this is the kind of event that we could grow obviously the Porsche event is something that we want to see more of we don't really necessarily know if that's going to be something consistent it certainly hasn't in the past I do think that in this case I think maybe some special exceptions would make sense to to to put an event into the Forefront so commissioner lean you recognized yes thank you just something I want to share with the commission um Rel not your main specifically this item think about it we'll talk about it later but I had a meeting with the city manager Deputy city manager and um Brandon our new marketing coordinator one thing I'd like to suggest to the commission and a later dat you to think about is having every applicant which I know this group is doing and kudos to them but in addition make it part of the application to include a marketing budget and marketing plan which will benefit the event and benefit the uh City and the city can then assist with that so that's one thing um the other thing is Mayor will please could the item says weave $36,000 so you and you can do it after the vice mayor speaks will you be more specific on what we want to wave and if that does include uh any police time or police hours or public work so yeah I'm happy to address that really quickly so the the the parking meters number as we've discussed before is overstated by a factor of three times right so it's roughly $7,100 in real Revenue that's deferred that's not received by the City by virtue of our action so that's that's number one it's not 234 it's you know $7,100 in change what I'm proposing in addition we're going to wave the indirect mot and street closure fee of1 18850 the Public Works materials and Equipment indirect fee of 575 those are not cash outlays where where I I I understand your reticence what I'm just saying we suggest an alternative approach is that we weigh 50% of the direct cost for Police Department fees and public work staff right and I think that total roughly $ 7,722 so that's that's to summarize sorry I know already spoke and it's the vice mayor's turn fine waving all the parking fees street closure fees all of our barricade equipment fees but I'm not okay waving our Public Works staff time and our police time never done that in 12 years understood I respect your position thank you and vice mayor I just think there's one more thing to consider when we do something like this where we're waving direct cost costs is you know aside from commissioner Le been saying we've never done it once in 12 years is you've never done it until you do and when you do then it becomes something that exists and when it exists more people will ask for it and when more people ask for it then you are more amenable to doing it and I think we see that in the indirect costs that routinely get waved like like we've had the conversation before why do we make our staff go through the mental gymnastics of coming up with these numbers when we consistently wave them that is bad on us bad on us that we haven't either nip this in the bud or done something so that this just isn't even something that is considered so that then the only thing we consider is a hard cost and a direct cost as long as we don't do that and as long as we start playing with a direct cost we're I think we're doing it at our Peril so I I I'll just end with this thought and maybe we can call the question which is we couldn't we couldn't curate an event like this for what we're investing in it right and so I think you know I want to do honor to the work that these folks are doing which we are basically leveraging by a factor of I would say at least 10 to one their time their direct in economic investment in putting on an event that markets our city and brings 25,000 people to our town center and so I I think that's why it makes sense I can't think of too many other events that have ever been presented to us that have this impact that are run by a nonprofit uh we can talk about the event that happened last week again for profit partner and it was a great event and we should do more to support it going forward in the future but here I think the situation is different and we're getting a tremendous return on what is I think a very modest investment and something that we should be doing more for the sake of marketing Our Town Center so any last comments I have a comment of course I do please go ahead mind you I buy art every year so it's not even like I don't go there and spend money I saw I saw you I saw you at the neighboring festival for B Arts so I know you'll be there oh man so it it's more for us a who we want to be when we grow up and guess what this made us grow up so letting this vote happen which it will and making whatever decisions we will which I can you know they're in the tea leaves already it's more a matter of put your money where your mouth is and if this is not if what we have is not what we're happy with then do something I tried to do something it didn't work and now guess what in taking direct costs and making them a you know something that we are willing to negotiate on then puts the onus on the on I say the people on this day that decided that that's a good idea to then reroute how we do business so that we don't have this conversation over and over and over over again because I can tell you when you open Pandora's Box maybe you know what maybe everybody here's thinking hopefully and that's that's good too but something needs to happen you can't just say yes and then walk away like this had nothing to do for you okay uh commissioner K well I vice mayor I agree with you in normal standards but we're not in a position right now that we can get all that right we're not in a position where we can have art festivals and be successful and bring 10 to 20,000 people like that we we just don't have that right now we don't have the units the people living in on South Miami we just can't do that right now and I think today we can do this maybe in three years when we have a different you know look in the city won't need that and you you'll be 100% right but in this particular instance in today's day in South Miami I think it's needed that's just my opinion I agree with you but I don't think today's the day I I agree okay with that all said I'd like to move the item is there a second second okay we have a motion and a second Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner K yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner Leeman no Vice Bish no mayor Fernandez yes yes item pass is 32 thank you very much colleagues uh any items you want to take up next what do we have we have uh I think items that'll generate some conversation probably 17 want let's take item 17 please the board approvals no we'll knock those out at the end uh if you can read item 17 into the record Madam clerk item 17 in ordinance of the mayor City Commission of the city of suffer fora amending chapter 4 alcoholic beverages article one in general section 4-2 conditional use approval of requirements non-conforming use certificate of occy and chapter 15 offenses and miscellaneous Provisions article one in general section 1563 mobile vendors of the city code of ordinances to modify conditions related to food service in connection with the service of alcoholic beverages including allowing mobile food vendors for drinking place Bar Lounge within the hometown District under certain conditions okay thank you for that um are there any questions regarding this item if not I'd like to move it with a modification what's the modification we can the modification like to propose is to change the hour at the start time to 11: p.m. Madame vice mayor would you like to discuss the item yep I I I found the conversation with Raj of Pub 52 very interesting I feel that there are some things that need to be discussed and I know that I hit upon them when I had this discussion I want to say with our city manager I can't remember really with who is one even if you have these things whether it's 10 11 you are going to have these food trucks in whatever establishment they go to coming in earlier prepping earlier so they are they are arriving when our patrons are at restaurants whether or not they are actively open at that time so if you were to take I'm not going to use boogies as an example just because where they likely would be coming in through is not really obstructing a lot of people but that's not the case at other establishments where you have people dining on a sidewalk and then a food truck it for lack of the right we're going you know back and forth trying to find a a good way to to position themselves and you've got actually I spoke with a gentleman who has establishments that bring in other food and it was interesting he said do something similar to Pier five where you can have the ability to have food delivered to the bar so if we're looking looking at something where the conversation is happening hey this is open that's a possibility also give them a temporary license for six months to test adding food and then if they are able to do that then they have to do something more permanent on their lot we also need to see if we can do something that is not an eyesore food trucks by Nature are extremely unattractive no matter how you wrap it they're ugly and so if you're you're going to position these in an area where there is movement perfect example boogies because that one's open you've got to find a way if if it's voted through to kind of hide this from the street because they've got an open parking lot and now you've got a food truck on this parking lot you've got people I understand Taco craft is not open but somebody will be going there you've got patrons that are going you know to cicha lovers they're going to all these restaurants on that street yet they're passing this eyesore on their way to anywhere and so there has to be you know noise you've got a a generator that's making a ton of Noise Okay so do you have to have a silent generator because that is a pain in the you know what you've got you know so you've got noise you've got the the visuals of this and you've got direct competition in a place where they're not paying the fees or carrying what other places have to carry so I think we would need to look at those before we do something like this fa points further comments well oh commissioner leben you recognized go ahead sir no please I I'll follow I'm sorry commissioner Corey or commissioner c yeah I guess I have similar concerns and maybe just unintended consequences have we thought about what other um properties might be able to Avail themsel of this and and moving forward down the line who else might be able to use this as well and perhaps looked at any other let me let me just kind of give you my my my analysis is it's probably two two two establishments that are bars without restaurants which I think is basically how you are eligible for this uh I think it would be um uh boogies and then the only other bar without a restaurant that I'm aware of which it currently has an illegal food truck operating is the gentleman's club down the street right so those are the only two properties I believe would be eligible it's an open category if someone were to establish a restaurant without a bar they potentially could be eligible but again you know at that point in time we can certainly again you know I think there's been a couple good points made here one is I certainly I know that food trucks are quite the iore I might disagree with you on that point but um they're only going to be there for they're not there all day they're going to be there for a limited period of time uh certainly I want to address the compettition question which is why I want to modify the start our time again respecting Raj and the investment of other brick and mortar operators it was not Our intention to put people in competition with those folks that are paying taxes and have all the requisite overhead but I think maybe a model if we can take it up between first and second reading where we give people uh a temporary authorization for a limited duration so this is not a vested right might be a way to deal with this so we can see how it works if it's not working we can always resend we can resend that authorization so I think those modifications um um Madame vice mayor are all are all good suggestions that I'm willing to incorporate as we move the item forward further comments yes sir commissioner lean thank you uh mayor the first question is for our City attorney um Mr City attorney will you agree that this makes the code uh less restrictive this is an ordinance and it's the opposite of more restrictive this is so uh to to that commissioner lean this is not we are not modifying the Land Development code in this we're affecting the code itself okay uh thank you um other thing I want to say is is I I heard a couple of things um mayor you just said you didn't want to compete with an an existing businesses uh operational hours also the ordance had said it would start after any other business serving food in the area closes but now you're contradicting yourself by saying that it would start at 11 when you just heard from a proprietor two doors down say that their kitchen's open till 11:30 so why would you have it start at 11: and not midnight I commission Le I mean we can we can split hairs here I I agree I don't know that the half hours I don't okay fine uh then I contradicted myself for the record but I think 11 o'clock is not an reasonable time to authorize um this this option I'm open I'm open to suggestions from other parties on a start time okay another big concern of mine is a lot of this oneoff legislation seen it previously supported it there one item legislation that caters to one specific project or one specific establishment now in this agenda this evening we have two items that cater to a single business or maybe two the parking the way it's written is only to benefit gy I I don't think that's a fair comment we we've we've I mean there have been other items here and I'm not going to go into I'm not going to go I'm not going to go into it right now I think I think may I may I speak you may but I just want to clear the record look this is an open category there's another bar establishment that happens to open itself South Miami they can Avail themselves as well so I just want to be clear about that okay so we have an item in the agenda which was the way it's proposed is to Wave parking for just one or maybe two gems um the way this food truck item is written it could benefit one business which is Ban Bas maybe two which is uh the strip club mayor plenty of times referred to the strip club gentleman's club as a problematic business I don't know why we would want to reward businesses that are referred to on the day as as potentially problematic businesses um we used to have another establishment in South Miami it's no longer here commissioner on that question because it's it sound like a form of a question I I can't restrict the category to any one business which is why if it's open to one it's got to be open to all so through the mayor can I follow up on that yes you may uh can I ask the City attorney um City attorney do if there is a restriction I mean how do we get appr how do they get approval is it the land owner or the land um or the Lei or the franchise Lei that has to apply for the you know for the food truck permit or what what not so I'm not stating that correctly but the way I think the r the question is would the property owner have to approve of the of the of the permit to deploy the food truck on the property so yeah right now it's it's listed as the actual establishment is the one who would be permitted who would receive this permit so if we want the property owner to have to I I mean that that can be enforced we can write it into the ordinance Mr attorney I I I would imagine that we're presuming in the legis that they have the authority under their lease correct to solicit such approval so there's also the contractual matter between the private parties as to what they can or cannot do with respect to seeking approvals from the city on the leasehold so I if we need to clarify that I I would agree I would want the property owner uh or some evidence that they're authorized under their lease to solicit such an approval or request okay um we used to have a business in South Miami Irish Times is no longer here they catered an after hours in the business crowd it was not the element that we all say that we're looking to U track to South Miami um Raj owns Pub 52 he brought up a great Point earlier um nothing good happens after a certain hour it's how much all people say oh can eat then and food will absorb alcohol how much do you want people consuming in our city and then driving on our streets and so forth how late do you want bars staying open in the in the city uh the other thing is to me this is just offensive to all the other businesses especially when right across the street you just had Taco craft go out of business Taco craft isn't a standalone restaurant all their other locations are thriving it's backed by the Anthony's Pizza group um which sold out for a very handsome sum because of its success and they rolled all that Revenue into uh into taco craft yet it didn't succeed there we should be focusing on helping our brick andw comp uh restaurants which pay much more more in taxes of course carrying costs and startup costs in addition they're subject to inspections which and you mentioned something last time mayor but I don't believe I don't believe food trucks are if we're concerned about I believe they've got to get licensing through the the State Health Department in order to operate so that's uh a separate condition that's outside of our permiting jurisdiction so yeah where I am on this is it benefits one business not not the whole city I'm looking to benefit the entire city this is not an anti- one establishment or anti- uh food truck position this is a pro South Miami restaurant position and I think that we should be supporting and protecting our established restaurants as opposed to providing further unfair competition what's being proposed now does conflict with current operating hours of businesses that have been struggling to stay afloat that also have uh Food Service hours dur during the same time appreciate your comments forther forther comments yes sir um I was just going to mention that obviously there's been modifications made based off of business owner feedback modifications have been suggested on the day I'm assuming a lot of that would go into second reading so I would be very interested in seeing what would come from second reading so so I I I'd like to move the item at this time with a modification for an 11 11: p.m. start time again understand uh Raj's uh um position his establishment closes at 1 1:00 a.m. from what I could tell online this establishment stays open much longer I'm concerned the reason for moving this is I I I think better to have something in someone's stomach before they possibly hit the road after having a few drinks and the alternative it does have the benefit of helping uh I think one establishment that has a lot of support and Goodwill in this community um it may help others uh I don't think it I don't think it conflicts with uh the majority of our overwhelming majority of our brick and mortar establishments have closed way earlier than than this particular one or the time that we'd be authorizing the kitchen to stay open if you know we will I will have a meeting between uh this meeting I believe Madam Madam manager and the next with businesses in in downtown to talk about a variety of issues I will raise this particular piece of legislation with them if I hear feedback that you know these hours they think are unfair or going to create uh owners conflicts I'm happy to reevis of the start time but I'd like to move it with 11:00 a.m. and commit to the vice mayor that I we will incorporate uh uh the items that you mentioned some a temporary authorization and some consideration on the sighting so that does not create any conflicts with the street and and I say the noise the the you know even more than being unsightly both of those locations one of them within a year will be at the corner of an entire building residents so that generator as we all know from hurricanes you can hear it from here to the Moon Yeah I we will get some more information on the operational requirements for a truck and whether it's using a large capacity generate that would generate significant Noise Okay so that I'd like to move the item of Z second with a modification of 11 pm I'll second okay uh any further comments before we close see now Madam clerk if you can call the role please that's commissioner Cay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner lemman no Vice bonish I'm saying yes because I want to see what you're bringing back I appreciate that thank you m Fernandez yes item passes 41 on first reading as I it okay uh we've got uh folks from SRS here I know we've got folks on the city hall item which where do we want to go next colleagues yeah we are parking you want you parking okay if you could read uh which item is that item seven please the record item seven a res of the mayor City Commission of the city of South rep amending schedule fees and fines to modify certain parking rates and fees for a south parking garage thank you um if I could ask Mr riveral Question we I I had made a request of the manager to bring back a conversation on on um parking enforcement is that coming back next agenda yes okay Commissioners I I again I Max I apologize but we are you know you can see that there's some uh concerns I think the rightful concerns we you know my preference we'll discuss at the next meeting is to kind of revisit how we are indirectly taxing residents and patrons of Our Town Center through parking enforcement and you know we have a garage that's underutilized currently and not generating a whole lot of Revenue but for some businesses the rate structure does not work uh we've tried at least I wanted to to share with the public that's here on this item I started the conversation with the property owner or the not the property owner we are the property owner of the garage but we have a a gentleman who owns the leas hold interest and we did approach some about possibly cooperating with us to find of buy down rates for the businesses that they derive uh you know all the revenue from on a on a a publicly owned asset under that lease sold through 2036 that conversation did not really generate any follow follow up on their part so I assumed that was an expression of not not a desire to work with us I I want to be responsive to the public here and make sure that we are eliminating perceived barriers and real barriers to people wanting to come to our town center you know I think you know uh I've heard from from the owner of complex Jay who is in the same building about the fact that having a gym in the building generates you know uh clientele for his Rehabilitation practice as well the same from M Fitness uh I've heard complaints from them about parking enforcement in the early morning hours and so I think the the conf the combination of our enforcement policies on parking and our rate structure with a garage that's not utilized frankly is not really you know from my perspective we built a garage it should either be full and and generating revenue or full if it's free right but having a garage that we invested you know $8 million in directly indirectly that's empty all the time because we're trying to charge mythical $3 an hour uh feeson is not helping us grow the business district and promote economic activity which should be the purpose we investing The public's money in that structure so I I'm happy if we want to table this item and revisit it in conjunction with a conversation on parking enforcement so we can have a more Global discussion about how we tackle these issues in combination as opposed to just talk about the garage again uh I just moved to defer the item to I guess the February 20th agenda where that item will also be on we can have two conversations at one time yes ma'am yes ma'am when we are ready to have that conversation it would be extremely beneficial if we know number one how much revenue was being generated when the parking was at the 50% off number two what's being generated since then and number three what's being generated somewhere that is not the garage because we always like you say have a conversation about the garage but we're never having a conversation in where we're comparing it to what's happening on the street which is literally you know 50 feet away when you're walking from one spot to the other and there's a lot of people complaining about parking in the garage but I don't know that there are as many people complaining about paying the same amount or double just recently to to park in the street you know so people want to park on the street I I mean that's that's clearly clearly obvious from what we see in terms of the revenue generated I just so you know what I've asked for is also an analysis of the distribution of when we're issuing parking tickets every seven go because you know I I nothing more offensive to me than seeing coming out of a movie theater Christmas Eve at 3:30 with my daughter and her three friends and walking I parked in the garage because I knew it was free that month but some poor sap parked on Sunset Drive and got a parking ticket at 3:30 on Christmas Eve I mean we're we're the Grinch so I don't know that that's what we the I just don't think that necessarily helps Market Our Town Center nor does it help the businesses that we know are struggling there so hopefully we'll get a distribution analysis of not only how many tickets by month but throughout the course of the day when we're issuing tickets because you know again to Raj and some other business owners point or you know if we're issuing tickets at 10 o'clock on a Tuesday when there's no one parking on the street what are we really accomplishing and maybe that's that's a further part of the conversation is from what time to what time are we going to do this enforcement because I know I used to go to pilates at 700 a.m. and it I think it was at 8: a.m because I knew parking started like after we don't we don't enforce till 9:00 a.m. yeah okay so there you go I was like I know I went early I don't know if it was seven or eight because so then we know so we're having the conversation from a complete place of knowledge yeah so I I without objection commissioner Le did you want to say anything yes sir I do quickly uh thank you um four quick points one was just mentioned uh which is yes parking is free before 9:00 a.m. I'll argue that that benefits gyms disproportionately but good for them um it's not free but we don't enforce so however you want to articulate that sort of loophole um not saying everyone goes to the gym before 9 but it's probably when you see the majority of traffic and then the way that gym specifically is structured is the 40 minute workout so you figure parking workout leave you're looking at 50 minutes certainly under an hour um second thing the vice mayor brought up a great Point uh in terms of gauging the occupancy of the garage when parking was half price or free I know it was somewhat controversial we decided to to your point mayor you mentioned um waving parking during the uh the holidays did we have any gauge of whether occupancy was greater it's and then the third thing I'll say is people don't value what they don't pay for um but if if this Commission wants to uh reduce parking do it across the board for every business every visitor South Miami make it half off which would be a $150 make a dollar an hour not going to say I don't care but I have no problem with that I'll support whatever price you want to associate with it but I'm not in favor of an item that just benefits uh one or two gems in the let's call it the the parking garage building agreed thank you yes commissioner Cory the only other thing I'd like to add and I want to commend the May may obviously we're all trying to promote the downtown you have three items tonight promoting the downtown I just want this commission to also be supportive of ideas to promote the downtown I know it's easy for all of us to kind of come in and it is good that our ideas get picked apart but moving forward it'd be great to have a comprehensive uh uh parking strategy I was actually looking at it as a potential amendment of this uh that we actually have a $65 um a monthly fee which is pretty much the same as all the other monthly parking availability at United Community Bank shots shops at Sunset Place and Plaza 57 so something I might want to bring forward is is lowering that more specifically for our garage to be competitive so that we're not at the exact same price but you know coming up with some some some better strategies on promoting the downtown and and really reducing the parking burdens that we put on the people we want to to go to downtown thank you for that okay without objection uh can I get a motion to defer uh item seven to uh February 20th I move the motion second okay uh Madam clerk can you call the rooll please yes commissioner Cay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner leben no to defer it's to defer to defer yeah no to defer like I said last time I want to kill it and bring it back the correct way we keep kicking the scan down the road and he keeps coming back the same way let's do it to benefit all businesses and not just one you know I'll withdraw the item then so let's just do that that's fine okay so you want to withdraw the it if you withdraw please thank you okay item let's read item yes sir want take a break we can take a break do we want to take items eight and 10 next sure okay we'll stand recess for five minutes okay we please be seated we are going to restart uh Madame clerk if you can read item 10 please 10 item 10 a resolution of the mayor and City Commission of the city of South Miami Florida authorizing the city manager to issue a request for qualifications RFQ for S City Hall Redevelopment project no no no thank you um colleagues would you like the City attorney to briefly review the RFQ or do we want to get into questions or comments on the draft the goal the goal of this item is just to make sure that our Collective uh preferences are reflected in the document before we put it out my desire would be that we put that staff would put this out after we approve it hopefully by the end of the week so we can get this process started would you like a quick overview or how would you like to proceed I don't need know okay do we have questions or comments on the draft as it's been approached Madam vice mayor you're recognized uh to our City attorney were you able to look at the stuff I sent you actually if I can just interrupt you for one second just for the benefit of the public because my friend here is reminding me that other folks may not be quite as aware of what we're doing what we are talking about is a request for qualifications to basically for the would be the Redevelopment of this campus uh the goal here is to leverage the value of the underlying real estate uh hopefully if this Charter amendment is approved via a lease so we can get new public facilities principally a city hall uh police station and a public library and so to that end we are going to issue hopefully a request for qualifications uh that will be open we will short list respondents and then allow them to respond to a request for actual proposals thereafter with uh concrete project information and the attendant Financial proposal so that is the purpose of today's conversation okay Madam vice mayor you recognize again oh okay I was just asking the City attorney if he was able to look at questions and stuff I had for him that I spoke with him about previously yes madame vice mayor I I looked at those um and just so for the benefit of everybody I'll just go over what they were briefly uh it's to expand the um the types of knowledge and experience that are included in this there's a list on at 1.7.5 point6 of the of the RFQ and it's got several uh types of of experience and it would be to expand that to include development of public private Partnerships development and Transit oriented developments and financing of mix use projects on a longterm on ground leases and those are all I have no objection to including those um I think it's a good idea um does anyone else have any objection to the inclusion of those modifications commiss lean are you good okay seems like he is continue I'm sorry uh 177 73 um the the proposal was uh it right now it requires a resume it would be to expand that to a resume or a bio uh the the thinking is that a bio May provide a a little bit more uh information um I I I have no objection to including that in there anyone have an objection to allowing for uh the substitution of BIOS instead of resumés I prefer bios you prefer bios okay so if you can include the bio language it looks like there's no objection okay thank you mayor um next one one 1.7.8 point2 regarding past performance um can I can I stop us before we go into this I I apologize I just want to mention mention on 1.7.5 6.5 1.7 1.7. 1.7.5 6.5 okay there is a description of the kinds of facilities that we want and it it refers to adaptable garage facilities and um I guess program management technology for for that function I I'm exactly sure what that meant what are we trying to solicit uh by way of information there so this this whole section this whole like uh subsection parking parking with those are are just experience they categories of experience okay you know do you have experience in this and then in terms of that specific specific one um this is this was specifically geared at like robotic parking and those types of of Technologies is but is that is that is that experience reflected in the scoring methodology anywhere uh not necess it's it's part of the overall what are you bringing to the table there is there is an experience category um what and this would be part of it but we're not saying saying necessarily that we we're expecting people to build floor plates that are adaptable from garage to okay we are not suggesting that fair enough okay then I I have no I have no problem with that language then okay um getting back to uh Vice mayor's list uh the uh 1.7.8 point2 uh past performance um the this is a licensing question uh you know do developers have specific licenses other than general contractor licenses and um I I can see the critique I I I understand so so maybe we need to broaden that um or or just not require I I don't I think we should require the licensing okay I'm did you say you do think or you don't I think we should not require the licensing I think we should I think they should have the developer not not the developer per se but certainly the experts they hire or contractors they hire should have will will have hopefully all the appropriate licensing okay okay uh 1.7.9 the project approach um um the suggestion was since this is not the RFP to make it very to make it clear that U we're not expecting like plans or or anything like that it's it's more of like a narrative explaining okay what's your vision I I I what I would what I would suggest here my colleagues would agree is that we not necessarily not just require a narrative but actually have the narrative be examples of projects that they think are similar to uh a narrative related to the execution of other projects they've completed that might be similar to the type of project they would consider executing here so we get a sense of what their experience is and how they would translate that experience to our site and be able to highlight specific examples of what they've done elsewhere make sense yep it does I mean I I would think they would do that in the bies and everything that they're going to communicate to us but I agree just just emphasize on it okay so maybe it's just a a request for a list of illustrative projects that might be you know might highlight how how they would approach a project here but not necessarily reveal their secret sauce before uh right the RFP process right okay okay got it okay um the next one was 1.7.10 dealing with financial statements we had in here uh to require financial statements um is this I guess the question is is this really necessary should this be optional can can I ask a question on that are they exempt from public records requests I know they are during the pendency of the solicitation potentially yeah but once it's once it's they have to be turned over so I I I would say that this is probably going to reduce the number of people that would want to respond okay and I I I would think here probably more strike it but instead substitute it with a request for some sort of a summary of the uh Capital providers that they have been able to access whether it's debt or Equity uh over a certain time period and maybe a summary of the deals and size of deals that they've closed right over a period of time so maybe they list you know existing Capital Partner relationships for the last 36 months and know the last 18 months uh provide us with a list of deals they've actually closed the deal size you know amount of construction debt you know um Equity that they've raised to uh execute projects I'm can I ask a stupid question yes ma'am when you're talking about Capital Partners I get it but if they're sharing that are they sharing some kind of secret sauce I don't I I don't think so I mean I think yeah we're you know um we're not asking them to reveal all the details of their you know so some developers are you know like Avalon Bay are balance sheet Finance they finance all their deals uh directly others are have a take a very small general partnership interest in the deal but and rely very heavily on Equity that they raise from third parties or or debt and so I think as long as we know that they have existing relationships in the capital markets that are up to date and they're regularly executing deals we should have some assurance that there's someone that we can work with to do the project that's really what I'm looking for I don't know if anybody has any other thoughts on it no I think that's a good point commissioner leben you're awfully quiet what's going on over [Laughter] there you my my position is I'm just here to create urgency I want to so I'm ready to vote Yes when the commission okay so that would be my suggestion to modifying uh one one 1.7.10 and strike the financial statements requirement okay okay um uh two more uh the insurance certificate requirement at 1.7.11 um the suggestion was to make this a a a requirement of the uh of the RFP rather than the the RFQ um I have no objection to that other than um we should know that they're insured but I'm pretty sure all the companies that are going to submit have all this qualifications I suspect so I would just leave it just to make sure that we weed them out in the beginning if it's okay with everybody I don't think it's that material uh I I guess as long as they don't have to present an active are we asking to present a current certificate yes I I I mean I think it's just cart before horse frankly you know at this point certainly it's a requirement we should let them know that we're going to require these kinds of insurance yeah and the RFP phase but I don't need them to present a current Certificate of Insurance for any of those um potential exposures yeah okay do you have comments uh just for the for the commission if you can finish if you have any more I have a couple changes on the on the list if I can just quickly highlight to and that is uh 3.1c City attorney we we have certain parking mandates it's like three spaces per thousand for the uses the public uses again not that we're not going to we should ask for them but I don't want to make them mandatory we can say that the city is seeking parking at this level for these uses but again we have no contractual I made a very consistent point with the county that we have no contractual obligation to them to provide them 39 spaces or any other number we certainly can request it if we get something at that number or above or something close to it fantastic but I don't want to burden the deal with that as a mandate per se where did we get these specific numbers I think we just so the county had asked us for parking at three spaces per thousand uh for the library for the library which was 39 spaces roughly and I think we just kind of appropriate that number for everything else it seems to be seems to be calculated the same factor my math might be wrong I'm a lawyer not not a mathematician so but anyhow so I would just make this a suggestion not not a requirement by using more permissive language I agree um and then I think 3.3a if I can borrow your Ryan yes yeah again I think 3.3a just kind of re re reiterates the parking requirements so Mr res if we can just make sure that in that section as well that we kind of use more permissive language okay and and can I ask one question on while we're on that number where did we come up with the 30,000 sare feet for City Hall and 25,000 for the police station those those are numbers have generally been um utilized by the city in previous efforts and documents U as an order of magnitude um so they this could be a plus or minus at this point it's a little bit sharing we would have to dig in a little bit more on it but um prior efforts have used some of these numbers in their calculations and and asking the the like not the best question ever but how many square feet of each of those do we have now like how many square square feet is our city hall and how many square feet is our police station if we don't have an answer for that if we could just get an answer for that because then maybe that will drive this a little bit more because if this is based on the the the previous one where everybody was saying I want a gym I want a office that's you know 3,000 square feet we might have to look at that again yeah and we we did that we did asle the chief has been looking at the the prior design and and going through that and and you know didn't seem to have anything that was obviously we can make some tweaks and some efficiencies but nothing that was sort of outrageous for him as a space especially if we're building something for 40 50 years um and so we do have the numbers I just forget off the top of my head and that's fine and we can share with you but these are sort of plus minus as we continue to move on okay and determine our space needs you know we can tweak it you know it could it could be a little bit less could be a little bit more um but we had to sort of ballpark it at this point thanks F further further questions on the program or comments on the program anybody just that one on four yes I just want to ask given also some of the feedback from this meeting but if we do decide I know this is an RFQ if we do decide um that we want to add Workforce housing as a public benefit should we request examples of that in 1.7.5 point6 right now we have construction of Mi mixed use but maybe add one line for construction a mixed income that's a good suggestion so unless there's an objection Mr R we can add that to that section as well so we like to see their experience in developing Workforce housing yeah is that so that then we could have a conversation with whoever we narrow it down to to see where we land yeah I think we we will issue a solicitation we may need to have a conversation we look at the next instrument and say do we want that to be 10% 15% 20% do we not want to have it at all or do we want to make it optional and see what how we how we how we value it the scoring okay so there was one other comment um from vice mayor and it it um it was written as phase four but I think it meant phase six which is the the the approval of the contract with the respondent um the uh this has to do with selecting a proposer at the end it's basically just saying this is how we're going to do it going forward it's not necessarily tying our hands so we've tried to keep it open-ended but the the the suggestion was does it make sense to cuz right now we have it set ups that that the city could considerably select multiple respondents and then have them you know have the manager negotiate leases does this make more sense as a sequential kind of thing you pick one respondent uh at the end negotiate a lease and then you you've got an order if you can't get to a lease then you go to the next person you go to you know that kind of thing so I it's up to this commission we've tried to keep it as open-ended as possible at this point but that may not be what you're yeah I just think one at a time it it we're not dating seven like in in our general lives we're not dating six guys or six ladies at the same time hopefully some nobody here is dating anybody but but you know the thank you CH for one one at a time I is what I think when you focus your efforts on one at a time you tend to get I think further and even by focusing on one at a time you realize hey this is going to work this is not going to to work on moving on I I think if that's something we do in our everyday lives I don't understand why this would be so different so we don't want to play Bachelor or Bachelorette no we're not paying the bachelor here so uh I I mean I have no objection to going one at a time I think that we should Express that as Our intention unless there's an objection we can always revisit that further on down the line okay and one last thing just to consider um I think Josh is trying to say something Josh sorry commission Le are you good okay thank you um I I heard that story I thought that was a good [Laughter] segue so uh I received some input from the public uh today on this uh this is regarding the short listing um right now we have it written as the manager would select the three respondents and um either would move forward or has the option to bring the three shortlisted respondents to to you all uh for confirmation I guess um do you is is that acceptable to you all do you want to modify that at all do you want more than three respondents um I think I think I mean I don't know what's the you know I think we should leave that issue open and just have the manager bring forward a recommendation if we want to add a fourth respond let say there's 10 and we want to just allow four to move into the RFP phase we can make that decision I don't want to tie our hands to just a certain number agree hopefully there's a deep respond or deep interest of the market to do a deal here okay that's all I got Mr manager you wanted to add something I just just a a comment because I on the parking issue as it relates more to the library uh I know I know it was um suggested to have permissive language but um because we're we're still trying to uh enter into an iate with the library and there's an expectation that the development would go through the city but somebody could say oh I'm only going to give them 15 spots would it be problematic not having a number of which the library needs I think I think we I think we have a target number but I I like I've said to them and I'll say here to the public I'm not committing to that they you know the the deal that I offered them and we've agreed to is that they're getting all the economics in the land that's subject to a reverted provision I there's nothing more for us to give and I I'm concerned that if we commit to a number you know we are basically taking money out of our pocket to put it into theirs and we've been generous to a fault in order to kind of do something that's going to serve are are mutual taxpayers right in the public so I I just don't think it's I had this conversation today with the mayor and I had the conversation today with Mr Munoz and I've said we're at the end of the line what we can do if this is going to be the issue on which you know our partnership with the county dies then it's on them to have turned down you know uh what could be more than $5 million of revenues they otherwise would have no claim to further comments you're good city manager I'm sorry yeah yeah I just wanted to make sure that we thought through that just in case because because it's it's not a direct relationship just us and the developer obviously we got the library sort of weaved in through an Ila so just want to make sure it we considered that Jos yes commissioner lean sorry as it relates to this item fervent yes and want to agree to whatever the the commission um supports but um mayor City attorney or city manager know it's late will you quickly walk me just from my own edification and for the public for public context the process where we go from here right yeah well if if we can put a pin in that question I think it's an excellent one and it may inform there's some timelines here that are blank and I think we need to have a conversation about when we want to see this document put out so we can kind of fill in address your your your concern commissioner further comments commissioner K yeah I wanted to get the commission's uh kind of feedback on what we're thinking about the Sylvie Martin building uh the the the verbiage and the contract states that we want to incorporate it move it as a whole I'm not sure what if that's even feasible I don't want it to be a deal breaker I just want to talk to you guys about it if it could be partial what what we can do with that particular project I know we're going to get feedback from the developers but it's something that we're dictating in the contractor and I want to make sure we talk well again I just want to be I want to be clear what we're doing here we're not necessarily dictating program we're just expressing our preferences okay okay so I think I think the way this this is style it's an expression that we'd like to preserve the building when I say preserve the building I want to I'd like to preserve the historic portion of the building the annex is something that was added on thereafter but ites it is a good point I've you know the Dade Heritage Trust has already sent me correspondence on this point they're happy to hear that we had language that at least expressed our preference to keep it uh so I know there there is interest in the preservation community in in keeping the structure we may want to authorize a manager to you know do a structural assess in the building so we know before we go to market with an RFP whether the building can effectively be relocated I don't know if that's something we want to have by way of a secondary conversation I would okay so Mr manager I think on the Silvia Martin building language the desire is to see if there's a way for us to preserve it so I think we want to keep the language as it is but so that we understand and we can form the solicitation is it possible for us to explore uh inspecting the structural Integrity of the site and the feasibility of relocating it um you know cuz that that is uh while Express preference it may become cost prohibitive so I think the more information we have before we actually put out the RFP section of this solicitation you know could help inform whether that's a choice that we can afford or want to invested okay welcome thank you can can I add something to that I don't know if we've done this before city manager uh do we have a memo a memo of understanding if it's really historic what part of it is historic I mean I think we went through that before I just want to make sure that's I believe we designated it so our our our our prior commission my understanding it was City uh not not not state or federal but but we'll do that research and bring that back just to make sure that what I'm saying is what I what I grasped when I would got briefed on it some time ago yeah and I think we all saying different things so I just want to make sure we're all on the same page thanks further further comments on the document uh the we were having a conversation sorry when when no it's fine because obviously there's an open per period so we've been talking about how long to have it published uh given the fact that this is not the RP portion right these are materials that these developers would normally have as part of their marketing you know marketing materials and tweak it to to some of our asks I think uh we're we're recommending at least a 45 day period to issue it for 45 days um RFP would have a different timeline obviously that's a a go hard type you know economic analysis engineering architectural but for this is really more of a marketing piece if you will that they can assemble in a quicker time I think 45 days is reasonable anybody have an objection to 45 days can I ask a quick question yes I know we're already behind in the timeline that we had discussed we are we said January we're in February so giving that are we still gon to end up on time the yes well so care self self-impose careful what you say I no I know I know but but I don't think we're that far off especially with changing this to 45 days actually okay okay because we were the the idea was to get to the evaluation and selection of the short list early in the second quarter and this will still put us within that let's go then okay and everybody better start talking my related my related question is to staff and the City attorney how long will it take you to actually put together the final uh elements of the draft after we approve it today detailing the timeline yeah so we can issue it I mean I would love to have this issued by Friday yeah end of the week okay that's something to Great this Friday this Friday yeah okay further questions commission lean are you good he's falling asleep over there think well no my my questions again we just context for the public and my own edification just real quick a timeline going to talk about the ballot item location the current city hall site inspection station the use which ties certainly in into zoning um and then uh City Hall police station same location separate um yeah just want to keep this simple so so I think I yeah so I think 45 days from Friday uh we will get responses back um uh concurrently with that we're going to be working on the ballot item which hopefully will'll will pass and give us more optionality in terms of whether we have to sell or can lease for a longer term um I think that a related question is when should we I I would like to see the RFB draft come back to this board as we have with this RFQ so we can make sure that we're all comfortable with what we're asking for should we try and set a Target date for that I would think the first meeting in March might be reasonable didn't we have a Target date already for that we may we may have I say refer to the schedule that we already discussed and let that be the day no but I want to just kind of if we have that information handy would be great because I want to answer commissioner leman's question so which is what's the schedule look like going forward in terms of next steps right we didn't have any firm dates we we had generally first quarter RFQ uh second early second quarter evaluation and selection of the short list the RFP issued in in sometime in April RFP responses in you know late May early June probably more like June and then evaluation and selection July and August that was kind of our tented okay so I think we we'll know the results of the of the uh election on the 19th right so maybe when is our second meeting in March Madam clerk the 20th no no no it's the 19th is a Tuesday meeting is March 19th oh it is that think so okay so we may need to I mean commissioner Le would you like to call or like me to call potentially a special meeting just to address the RFP portion of this certainly we can Target the we can Target the 26 potentially of March actually I'm not here the 26 so like should be careful what I say go ahead sir okay go ahead was library library or no Library there's a lot of significant moving Parts still so yeah starting with the ballot it yeah I think we um should have a pretty clear indication by the 26 as to whether or not um the library will be in or out or not um so I I mean I think I think it'll be in but we'll know def I think before then because it should gone at least to one committee at the county we should charge the library late fees we should 5 cents a day um so let's let's target maybe a special meeting if we can um the 20 that's 26 is the Tuesday yes colleagues everyone here can make that date March 26 I'm out of town you're out of town do we want to look at another date in March yeah do we want to look at April 2nd we have a I think we have a commission commission meeting that day that's fine and we have the Sun the priorities meeting before so maybe we' make that the priority meeting that's a good idea do we need more than an hour I don't believe we need more than an hour if we are as prayers as we are today on this item I think we'll be fine uh do we want to vote on the RFB and have it on that agenda as well potentially as an item I think it's doable okay so let's just Target having the RFP on on the April 2nd agenda okay gosh get away from yes sir quick quickly I wanted to go forward as soon as possible so put it on that agenda but I I won't be able to make it so but that's fine I don't want to hold this up okay yes sir Mr Milo Mr Mayor just point point of clarification yes sir is and maybe if through through the mayor maybe to the City attorney if if you're going to work on your draft RFP somewhat concurrent with your open solicitation of your RFQ is that going to preclude anyone that is anti participating participating in the RFQ process you know prohibiting us from making any comments or public comments because of a cone that may be raised in the middle like I'm just yeah I'm just I I'm all for Speed I'm all for Speed but but but question as I'm sitting here listening I can see a little bit of a train wreck coming on that yeah that's an excellent question um yeah it is a separate solicitation um I don't know the answer to that question I got to I got like an excellent point I think it's one we to think about but I think for the moment let's keep that date we'll have a couple meetings between now and then we'll have an answer to that question and maybe we can we'll need to defer that date frankly Mr Milo I think it's a excellent point sounds like I presume you're GNA have a cone go up on Friday yeah so get your questions in before Friday on the pathetical document yes it's good the crystal ball you know you're good at that you're good at you're good at Crystal balling yeah but thank you for the comment so there will be no special meeting no I think let's it will be no special meeting just be on the regular agenda okay okay so Mr Russ you want to walk us through a potential timeline as we understand things right now to address commissioner lean's question so getting kind of R over he is he's having we're on the spot here yeah because I know that uh everybody has long memories hopefully chip doesn't kick me under the table um so the okay so uh all right we talked about the the RFQ the RFQ would be due if it's 45 days from uh Friday we're looking at March 25th Monday March 25th um there would be a a selection evaluation period I don't know what that will take I mean functionally chip any three weeks maybe yeah so like late April um and the reason I say that is because the committee may want to ask for oral presentations so you know once they review proposals if I want to ask for oral that's a separate session of the committee so realistically you're looking at a meeting um where those are presented to you on May 7th uh your first meeting in May um and then you're looking at um I'm sorry because I messed it up on my paper can you start from the beginning oh dear okay you start okay the RFP goes out Friday R yeah the RF goes out Friday goes out Friday back in5th and then there's about a 3 week evaluation period for that uh so then the next meeting that you all have is May 7th after that that would come before you um and perhaps depending on what the answer is to the cone of silence question that Mr Milo brought up um that could be the day that the RFP is presented to you for before comment yeah or the next meeting which would be May 21st the com would typically be lifted upon the manager making a recommendation correct yes okay so so presumably there'll be a period of a couple weeks um when do we have our next Sunshine priorities meeting in in April we April well April 2 the first April 2nd the first one so I I think just to be prudent we should probably figure on the RFP coming back to us that first meeting in May as opposed to any any sooner so at least there's a a two- week period where potential respondents can also inform inform the outline of the of the solicitation just to take that issue off the table if we can accelerate that commissioner Le and trust me we will I don't want to I just want to I want to be defer on the side of caution yes sir so to to that point and Tony with all due respect there oh those were tentative dates that's the problem with tenative dates they're not they're not deadlines they're they're nothing so that's why we've always needed Hard dates because then it's pass fail and we're already behind so my concern is it's this point now where that we're starting to add this up and of course reality there's going to be an election maybe the RFQ should only be 30 days that'll Advance the pro the process two weeks and we're not even taking into account unanticipated delays which in government they're always are especially with a project of this magnitude any thoughts on 30 days yep I don't know how feasible it is for qualifiers I think people who do it all the time probably have no problem doing it so it mayrow the pool of people who have experience I don't know is there any sort of statutory or other prohibition on having a period That's set short no it's just more of a functional uh limitation if I may in between the the advertisement and the submitt there's a few steps there's a pre-proposal conference there's deadline to submit questions and clarifications on the RFQ and then the city issues aenda with any clarifications or changes okay so let's let's keep the let's keep the 45 days for now can we just walk the timeline through I think commissioner Le and I understand your concern let's walk it through to it finality if we can before we pass final judgment on it so after the solicitation the next solicitation is issued how much time do we anticipate having that out is that 60 days 75 days what are we recommending on the staff side for a possible RFP open date I mean that's a much more involved uh part of this that's the actual proposal they're gonna have to go They're gonna have to consult with their Architects their Engineers yeah that's at least three weeks to get some sort of at least preliminary schematic design right so yes just that phase I got some economic analysis as well yeah um that they would have to I would think minimum 60 days minimum 60 days you might want to give a little more time than that we take it to 75 days where does it put us in the calendar five days if we did that for RFP that would be so uh if if so if we presented the RFP to the commission for approval on May 7th and it went out let's call it the the you know the end of that week or yeah roughly May 10th um you're looking at would that be have to be July 10th plus 15 days so July 25th we're looking at what is that yeah July July 25th would be a Thursday um and then there would that's when they would be due then there would be a a selection process probably a little more involved than than yeah yeah so you're looking at probably presenting something to this commission October from July 25th you think could be could be or Jesus Christ people I had a kid in last time I August santu you just won't let it go I won't so funny I just it just it's endless that portion obviously U there'll be some some legal and in some e Financial advisory type reviews of proposals um so not just you know the portion of uh committee work but but we have outside specialized that has to put some eyes on on these proposals and sort of bet what what a proposer is saying so um so let's just double the time and say it's six weeks okay so what's six weeks from from July 25 yeah you're looking at so four weeks would be uh August 25th so middle of September looking at okay all right so RFQ goes out Friday rfqs do three 325 we have 3 weeks of an evaluation from there we pick whoever it is we're going to have give us an RFP they're going to you're going to be presenting that to us the 27th of May see there's something in that math that got separated from me no May May 7 May yeah they come to us on May 7th what was it that you said was going to happen May 27th no it was May 21st that was the RFP to bring it back but but then uhy had said would bring it back May 7th instead of May 21st and then we're saying then from May 7th to July 2th is when the RFP is going to be due Y and then we're going to make a decision second week of September uh yeah by middle September so what what would that that meeting would be which will be very active because that'll be budget budget hearing yeah we we going to need a special I think we're going to need a special meeting so for that so let's find a date for a special meeting in September so we're not dealing it within the context of budget your your two meetings are your regular meetings are I think September 3rd and the 17th and Nikki please correct me if I'm wrong we're gonna we're going to need to we're going to need to wait on that day because as you know there'll be other taxing jurisdictions holding budget meetings as well yes so I don't think we want to hold it on the same evening so uh I think a date we'll have to play by year for now okay yeah something like that yeah so I think you yeah probably the last probably the last second second last week of the last week of September okay is probably a good Target date so Lily you said week of the 16th and there will be like Tada the baby's born this is what we're doing oh the baby the baby's the the mother's selected the mother that's there you go all right okay um question wait we need clarification just want clarification so issuance of the RFP would be May 27 no no May 7 no no the day the Friday after May 7th the Friday after May 7th would be when the RFP is presented to the commission for approval 10th May 10 May 10th com sorry thanks okay and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna ask Albert something because I I want somebody that is not us that has actual expertise in doing this he's tell he's going tell you he's going to tell you the timeline on the RP huh do you want to see this or does it no I I kind of got it in my head again it it goes back to the question of you know the time frame between you're going to you're going your cone's going to get you know you're going to raise the cone on Friday it's not going to get lowered until that May 7th date right or when the manager makes a recommendation in April you may we probably have two weeks to get third party comment on the RFP right that's with that with that current schedule that is tight so I mean I mean look we're going to play at the pace that you said right that's that's you're not going to hear us complain about that part of it but it is going to be that's a very you know fast-paced timeline so I think the trade-off is maybe we bring it back to 21st which would be the next regular meeting and then it gives us a four-week window to get third party comment to your point look you're you're not talking about a a simple public private partnership right you have some major public components in what you're trying to accomplish and so there's going to be some if you want to get proper bids that are not just back of the envelope numbers yeah yeah you're going to need a little bit of time to because again you're talking to police station City Hall library and then the developers have to figure out what makes economic sense um so so you do need a little bit of that timeline to to get real responsive proposals so 75 days enough time on on the back side yes when the RFP is issued yes I don't think that's a problem so I think realistically if Madam Vice May how I'm interpreting his comments is that we're really T taring about an October meeting to actually have an award as opposed to the last the last half of September right so we can give a little bit two two more weeks you're going to want a little bit of space between the time you short list your developers to that RFP which is where it's like the real games on yeah at that point so would we take that to the 21st instead of the sth of May of May of May yes that's what I think I'm hearing y would that be selection still on the 7th the RFQ selection of the RFQ on the 7th but then the RFP issu on the 21st that's corre approval of the RFP on the 21st and the day after whatever two days after you issue so so that would push the uh 24th yeah the RFP being due you know to like middle uh like first week of August correct okay got it and that would push us to a public hearing on the final selection October at October and assuming we make the decision that first meeting and one meeting which you know may or may not happen it may be something goes down to the wire at least for all of us you know uh through the beginning of uh through the end of October oob yeah end of October but I think to commissioner Leeman's point we have no we've got no slack in this in this timeline so commissioner yes he's he's uh well yeah and the flip de side of this uh was term Milo is a your point Mr Mayor now we're talking about October 8th just want everyone to know this is this commission's the commission's last meeting schedule meetings October 22nd so I know many of you will still be here but in terms of this body um that's our last meeting our last scheduled meeting is the meeting after that on the 8th is the 22nd so it's going to be hell off for you our meetings in October are the 1st and the 15 what's that meting October 1 and October 15th is the Clark saying oh okay sorry so October one all right sorry October 1 and 15 yes so but either way um that only leades us one scheduled meeting and there's more time in the month but it's as tight as it gets so I'll just cast my vote in advance now was a yes just in case we miss it okay we are we clear on this timeline Madame vice mayor any further questions are you uh Crystal good I'm good okay um do I have a motion on the issu of the RFQ subject to the modifications that we've made in the record I'll move the motion is there a second I'll second can we have a motion by commissioner Cay a second by the vice mayor Madam clerk if you could call the role please yes Commission commission Kay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner Leman yes thank you Vice May bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes thank you if you can read item Albert for thank you Albert for your feedback if we can take up item uh eight please yes item eight a res the May City Commission of the city of South fora approving their project scope from plusia LLC DBA plus Oria design for plac making branding and Urban Design Services for a portion of Hometown District located on Sunset Drive and adjacent streets sorry we we've read that item um quick question my colleagues do we have anyone who has any questions on the consent agenda because I know we have people here still I don't have any any questions on the consent agenda no then can I get U Madam clerk if um Juan with your Indulgence we're going to read items one through six and then I'd like a motion for all six items just get there cu agenda item one a resoltion of the May City commission approving a proposal and project agreement with kimley horn and Associates to provide Design Services for drainage improvements along Southwest 65th Avenue between Southwest 50th Street and Southwest 52nd Street in amount not to exceed 6,565 item two a resolution approving the proposal and project agreement with exp us services in to provide Design Services for drainage improvements along softw 9th Place from Southwest 56 terrs to CAC and amount not to exceed $8,997 120 item three a resolution of the mayor City commission approving a proposal and project agreement with SRS engineering to provide Design Services for the bridge structural design repairs project at Southway 63rd Court over Twin Lake Canal just north of Southwest 62 terce in amount not to see $135,400 6 item four a resolution approving the purchase and installation of three new fitness equipment machines at Gibson Bela Community Center from Centon Partners Health and Fitness LLC DBA Fitness Smith in the mount n ten $1,241 58 item five a resolution approving the waiver of rental fees in amount of $990 for youth flag football and basketball competition by Soph M Middle School to be held at Palmer Park and the Gibson Bela Community Center item six a resolution approving the renewal of services with Civic Plus for C click fix for a one-year period including March 17 2024 through March 16 2025 and amount not to exceed $1 14,520 188 thank you madam clerk um can I get a motion on items one through six I I move the consent second thank you we have a motion by commissioner Leeman and a second by commissioner Corey Madame clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner lean yes commissioner Corey yes commissioner Kay yes vice mayor bones yes mayor Fernandez yes consent agenda pass 5 Z so those of you who had to stay I apologize we took so long this evening thank you for your patience uh before we move on I just want a quick quick editorial on this and foreshadowing a future events to come uh the the vice mayor mentioned something that I've been thinking quite a bit about uh just an item three we know we're going to have $135,000 of design costs uh we have had some success in the state budget this year we have a quarter million dollar for this to to address this problem and also the Culver it's woefully uh inadequate for what we need to do in terms of capital repairs and um the vice mayor just quickly whispered to me we need more money to execute and so I've asked the manager and CFO to bring forward an item to talk about options to execute improvements including possibly getting the public public in November to authorize a debt issuance so that we can actually take these things through design and actually completion uh and also then leverage with that those dollars more State and hopefully County dollars depending on what happens with the uh countywide Bond issu that's been discussed recently so anyhow that'll be on the agenda hopefully on the 20th okay uh back to item eight Mr M at the floor is yours Mr Mayor I'm sorry I just wanted to te te te something up um because obviously what what the goal today is is get feedback to to finalize the scope yes sir uh I did include uh some of the pricing that the firm plus had had provided more from a context standpoint uh but what you're approving today would be a scope and then pricing would would be forthcoming and can I ask you just if you can remind me what what do we have budgeted for this exercise so uh part of development agreement with Avalon Bay there's a $250,000 uh payment to the city for placemaking um we've also uh earmarked in our Capital uh program roughly a million dollars I believe uh Al fro maybe you can look it up while we're talking um that we sort of captured and gave it a gave it a name uh for purposes of placemaking as well um and then and then we have some um State money fot money remember the conversation about the lap program and US advancing trying to get it extended to and are we are we now lab certified no not yet and when do we expect that we we will be lap certified don't know the answer to that I would have to lean on a to to to find that out okay but we we did uh get the secretary to agree to move the funds into their FY 26 which is construction by July uh one of 25 so um so those are the different buckets of of money that that we would have so I just want to make the clarification that the focus is scope but pricing was just from a context standpoint so you would understand the relationship I appreciate it because I called one today when I was going through this item and said I don't know how we're going to afford this because I thought we had budgeted something woefully short of what was back in the Fe proposal so thank you for that information and then lastly I commissioner Lee mentioned something to me I don't know if that's still his desire but obviously this is something he's Champion for quite a while that uh he had told me he wanted to be a sponsor of this item obv we brought it forward as a staff item so I don't want to speak for him but I'm just sharing something he uh when we did our agenda briefing that he had mentioned to with that objection if we could show commissioner Lan as the sponsor please okay Juan floor is yours also we need to move to extend the meeting past 11 can I get a motion to extend the meeting to uh 12 o' please this is me you can yes well 12 o'clock is the end we can't go past 12 per the code we can't go back we can't go past past 12 we cannot go past 12 can I can I offer a suggestion can we move everything that is not this gentleman to the next meeting well I don't know how much is left we only have four items I feel like we have an entire Kingdom of stuff left but there's four items and four board appointments so if you want if you want let's you want to move those first we'll table this again I'm sorry Juan just we so we can clear the deck and everybody feels comfortable we can finish this hopefully in 30 minutes poor guy okay I'm sorry to do that to you again so if I can Madam clerk stay Madam clerk if you can read items uh we don't need to read the board appointments correct okay so if I get a motion on Ma MB MC and D which are the board appointments of Alexander alazon but you don't need a vote need a vote okay they were just accepted with okay we will accept those appointments without objection for the record okay if I can get the clerk to read the second reading ordinances please yes item 12 and before you start I'm sorry can we have a can we have one public hearing on all four items yes okay thank you okay um I need a motion I'm sorry for the I'm I move the motion second all in favor yes I okay we should do that more thank you okay item 12 an ordinance of the city of South Miami amending Article 5 procedures and application section 20-55 certificate use of the Land Development code to provide additional regulations for certificate of use item 13 in ordinance of the mayor City Commission of the city assment for amending sections 1-2 rules of construction definitions 2-21 rules of procedure of City commission 2-3 31 same publication of notice to hear objections to d37 same subject to action by Council 2-8 design Bill contracts 9. 9-5 election date and notification official ballot 14-5 Declaration of state of emergency and 15- 35.1 abandoned vehicles of the city code of ordinances in sections 20- 2.3 definitions 20- 4.2 land subdivision regulations 20- 5.5 applications requiring public hearing and 20- 11.4 demolition of designated site demolition by neglect certificates of appropriateness and undue economic hardship of the Land Development code and other sections of the city code of ordinances or Land Development code as necessary to allow the use of publicly accessible website designated by m day County for a publication of required advertisements and Public Notices in accordance with chapter 50 for the statutes item 14 an ordinance of the mar City commission amending article four of the regulations Section 20- 4.2d of the Land Development code to allow the issuance of a building permit prior to final PL in certain circumstances item 15 in ordinance of the mayor City Commission of the city of South Mar Florida creating Article 5 maintenance of private property of chapter 15 offences and miscellaneous provisions of the city code of ordinances to provide for minimum maintenance standards for private property and enforcement procedures including City abatement of offending property conditions thank you madam clerk these are all public hearing items at this time if there's any member of the public who like to come forward and speak on either items 12 13 14 or 15 you're welcome to do though at this time seeing no one in the chambers will close the public hearing here is there anyone online Madam clerk no so we will consider the public hearing closed on items 12 13 14 and 15 is there a motion uh On All or some of the items that we can one by one please may propose we move 12 we have a motion item 12 is there a second second a motion by the vice mayor second by commissioner Corey Madam clerk please call the role yes commissioner C yes commissioner Corey yes commissioner lean yes B mon yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 5 Z is move item 13 second have a motion by the vice mayor and a second by commissioner Cory on item 13 Madam clerk please call the rooll yes commissioner Cay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner lemman yes Vic bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 5 Z I move 14 second we have a motion Again by commission vice mayor monich a second by commissioner Corey Madam clerk please call the role yes commissioner cayen yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner lean yes Vice Bon yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 5 Z I move item 15 second you have a motion Again by the vice mayor a second by commissioner Corey Madam clerk please call the RO um commissioner Cay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner Leeman yes Vice May Bon yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 5 Z right we have item 16 uh I have questions on this item do we want to take this up this evening or do we want to defer it to the next meeting I say then we defer it okay if I can get a motion to defer item 16 to the February 20th agenda I've lost motion to defer to February 20th I I we have a motion by commissioner Cory a second by the vice mayor there you go thank you uh if we can read the role please commissioner C yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner Leman yes Bon yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes to the first all right okay so now we are back on item item eight thank you everyone Mr Mar finally you're recognized the 1.25 thank you Mr Mayor Commissioners I think I've got my exercise getting up and down yeah um happy to com so I don't want to keep you too long but I want to you know stay here as long as we can in order to answer any questions that you have as the manager mentioned um we we put together a prop a proposed scope and it's a draft uh where do I point John you wanna can I say next yes thank you um so we met uh we met with a with a manager uh with uh with the city attorney and with the uh Deputy manager we came up with this plan or with this map that shows the streets that we would be looking at um Sunset as you can see is in blue it has a different priority that that's the one that's obviously your your core no next um can I go back okay uh and then the other ones go from 70th to 74th so those are the streets that we would be looking at based on the information that we've received uh in in moving forward uh what I wanted to share with you is how we're breaking this project up um we have four pieces to it and some of them overlap so I'm going to show you at the end a timeline which will begin to make sense but we wanted to break them up in this way so that you would understand what we need to do and how we need to do it the first part is Discovery and evaluation this is where we begin to understand the current conditions um and how things may change based on new zoning that you may have new land uses Etc we're not planning for today we're planning for whatever uh may come in the future uh the design phase and the dialogue we're calling the 4ds so the dialogue being the community engagement uh those would go hand inand once we've understood where we're at what the city needs uh in terms of where where where it where it is today uh we would engage the public we would engage stakeholders and we would begin design with stakeholders um and uh focus groups Etc and then finally the documentation the do the documentation as we understood from our meeting would be specifically for Sunset Drive because that's the one that we need to move forward for construction documents um so with a little bit more uh detail and again I I'll answer questions I'm going to go uh quite fast um the data collection and existing conditions assessment that would include uh looking at the current surveys and traffic studies right of way assessments that's a big one we we need to understand each of the each of the right of ways there's a total of 2.5 miles linear miles of if you start adding all the streets safety assessment we believe that's very important as well multimodal conditions assessment land use assessment and transportation and Mobility assessment um public participation as I said will span the entirety of the project starting with uh more General meetings uh focused groups that will that will help us understand where business owners are business owners that are not necessarily in South Miami today to understand what um what they would um what would need what would the streets need to look like in order for them to move to South Miami and understand the understand also the perception that people have of South Miami not just within but also outside uh then we would have the more involved design workshops which would pair up with um with our design phases um and finally uh we would have the uh the Alternatives and presentations to this chamber um and then and then move on to the construction documents uh from the multimodal planning I wanted to take a moment to to highlight this one because we feel is very important you've got Tod coming in you've got development that's uh that's going to be multimodal you've going to you're going to you're going to have to en enhance the way the way people move around and hopefully get many of them uh not only out of the car their cars and into um into U new transportation systems but also from your Metro Rail into your downtown into your town center so that's really important so residential access also from around the town center and the underline which is coming soon that's also important that's going to be bring people and that's going to have to uh be looked at the streetscape I know that this is the core element in the uh it was in the RFQ and in our discussions with the with the manager this is the key element U and and we obviously uh want to pay a lot of attention to it it goes as I said um handin hand with public Outreach we want to make sure that we are led by the public that we have um their full support and that we are planning based on their Vision I understand also that there is a lot of information out there out there already that we need to familiarize ourselves um and and address um and we will go from uh the public Outreach to Alternatives uh the public and yourselves will select the preferred alternative that alternative is the one that will move will will will'll make the master plan and then from that alternative Sunset Drive will be translated into construction documents um to uh to be bid on uh and finally I wanted to add the design construction dra uh drawings uh aspect of this it's a big portion of this um of this effort it takes a lot of time uh you know not just because it's it's detailed but also because it needs to meet especially fdot regulations and conditions and standards um the schematic design that you see on the three bullet points uh there and I'm going to move on to the next slide um the schematic design is basically what happens during the design and the public uh and the public Outreach so we will reach that 35% before we begin the public before we begin the uh construction documents uh phase so we will reach that 75% and we will be able to have our site plans uh a concept Hardscape planting um streetcape Furniture uh a conceptual irrigation and typical sections and details and specifications so our design process will lead us to that 35% the uh the other um the rest of the construction documents will be as the construction documents pH uh would be so that's in this the last task it has the $900,000 task number five in your everything Beyond 35% will be covered in that okay that's inter okay um so the timeline which is the important one we heard from the manager that there is a hard uh deadline which is July 2025 uh which basically puts us unting the gun to get things moving very quickly um the way that we've um we've looked at it um is we have a 15mon uh window uh and we want to make sure that we give enough time for the design process make sure that we have uh we come up with an preferred alternative that everybody um is comfortable with um because once we begin the construction documents the design should pretty much go in in One Direction uh it's complicated once you start once you start construction docum to begin to do fundamental changes to the design so we want to make sure that we have a robust beginning a robust uh design process and a um and a a signed off uh preferred alternative at at which point uh we would move forward with the with the last phase which is Task five uh the little dots there um the the dash line if you will uh under item four that would be our um our our a committee that would be selected so that we know a steering committee that would um help us move the project along we would be meeting with them typically we do either by weekly in some projects we do monthly but I think that a project like this which is really um really important and it really it's got really many components we should meet every every couple of weeks the steering I'm sorry real quick question the steering committee is something internal inside the group is that external it it would be external and typically there are professionals uh from from the city and also from other agencies that would have to um help us out for instance a representative from fdot we typically have uh public works from the county uh planning from the county uh we we we have Professionals in in professionals from different agencies that would help us steer the project along um and then as you can see in in just above those that those dotted lines that dotted line uh we have the major the the main uh public Outreach component the first being more um more getting input from the public and getting more general information the second one would be the design workshops uh and then the third would be the presentations of the Alternatives U making modifications to those Alternatives with a final Little Dot there on month 9th being uh the presentation to this Council um and with that I hope I've been brief enough um I'll you know I have some members of my team here also to answer questions okay okay okay quick question of the timeline if I may before we move into the scope sit back down microphone Ju Just on the timeline if you can and I apologize for being informal um put it back look looking at the scope it looks like the the design development and construction documents section includes the permitting so is that going to happen to that 9month window or are we looking at a permitting window there after of uh it looks like November to May after the 15 after the 15th month after the 15th month you need the construction documents in order to begin correct so you'll you'll so basically we'll be starting assuming we told you let's go forward today November that construction document design process would would be completed per your timeline and we'd have from November to the end of May to procure a uh the requisite permits to begin the improvements is that correct correct October beginning of November that's when we would begin we would we would go past the 35% yes okay so we so if if we can we go back to your timeline again yes please Tim so I'm trying to determine the feasibility of us actually being able to use the the uh fdot money so I can just I I I have to say and I you know you call me this morning I didn't mention it uh but for the record it's a very tight timeline yeah these FD deadline is is difficult okay so right now doable but difficult what I'm seeing here you you'll complete construction documents in 15 months so that takes us when July July 2025 July 2025 so if we have to start construction by July so June 1 of 2025 how do we make that timeline kind of Merry up because it looks like we have a gap well we would have to shorten part of this even further uh my understanding was and again this is something that we we would have further communication and further discussion with with your staff my understanding was handing the the the construction documents to fdot as a form of let's begin the the proc I thought it was perit in I thought it was permit ready and and construction shovel ready yes yeah my my understanding I clarify but my understanding is is construction right starting construction I think I think I think that if we're you know almost there may be some consideration uh uh but I the secretary was very clear I just clarify for so if you if you can if you can clarify that point for the record and also what the timeline is for getting lap certifi which is I think is a six about six months okay because I know was a year we talked about this before so I just want to yes sir um the the project has to be Cho ready okay that means ready for construction and the timeline for to get recertified since we've already had the certification uh according to the OT is typically six to nine months so okay so we can certainly get that done before we have to start spending money okay thank you for the clarification yes sir okay qu you want to guys you want to address the scope and any questions about the scope or you want to talk timeline just further clarification if theot I was just Consulting with my team um ideally we would be working with fot from day one so we you know they would they would sign off on our schematics they would sign off on our D percentage and so what we when we're done with 100% it you know permitting should be quick okay quick I'm sorry clarify that so that's just F dot what other municipalities structures imate County uh City what other requirements through permitting do you have to go through so for the construction documents we're only talking about Sunset Drive we're not talking about the other streets but do you have to get permitting from the city do you have to get permitting from Mi County from durm from whatever what other associations besides I think the primary group is fdot we'll check through the city but I maybe Mi county is in charge of the roads but it's DOT road so uh that's the primary concern that we have there I saw irrigation there's nothing with that you know with Derm anything sanitation wise anything they'll handle that yeah I think they're they're going to handle all that type of stuff and if if they refer us to somewhere else we'll double check it but usually just okay thanks further questions on timeline or scope where do you want to start Mr Mayor I just yes sir obviously it's a little bit of you know the challenges the timeline as we just discussed with fot right and so there are construction drawings for other streets that are part of the scope um if that's part of the exercise I think it would guarantee that there's no way that we could even be close to July of 25 no understood I mean that's why this is sort of phased for purposes of fot if not it would be done as one complete project all streets right if it wasn't for Ev we would recommend that first we do the vision sign off on that plan and then move on to the next phase comfortably and and and you know with confidence so I mean I think we have uh what Mr maner what $900,000 that we have from fdot potentially that we have access to for 50,000 750,000 correct and then the um uh afredo verified 1.1 in our CIP that we had sort of you know given a name for Town Center improvements uh then the 250 from Avalon Bay so just to if you can help us because this is the other part of the execution conversation that we need to have very quickly if if the design costs are $335,000 for just the segment and I'm assuming that segment runs from 57th to 62nd is that correct the the the design the design for Sunset Drive yes sir design phase is for the entire for the 2.5 linear miles of streets that you have in your city okay Town Center but there's there is a the construction docu the construction drawings not the schematic level plans the construction drawings Sunset is just Sunset Drive but what are the boundaries is it is it 57 to 602 yes yes okay okay so if that's 330,000 say that's 30% of the cost I would imagine of the total project I mean so what's what's the back of the envelope number on construction that we should expect in terms con construction cost yes it really will depend on the design you can get very intricate or you can get very no but I I knew that answer was coming but I the LA I me you should have been prepared for that but again I'm not I'm just I just I you know we we we're presupposing we have enough money to do the improvements on June 1 of 2025 I know we're nowhere near having what we need to finance this so so we need to very quickly get realistic about what our options are because if we're going to spend this money to begin design it's not ins substantial Capital layout I don't want to repeat this the mistakes of Prior commissions where we set people you know off to design improvements that we had no prospects of ever funding right pedestrian bridge offense to my colleague here good idea we could discuss it all day but it was $8 million we spent a half a million dollars in Pursuit cost the idea side of this I just want to understand and you know again I'm not holding you to the number but I'm going to say there's probably 30% of the total project cost uh you do the math you're the finance guy it's hard okay well just so what's you know if we divide that by 30% you know you're you're probably looking at a couple of million dollars in Hardscape hard improvements for just that segment um it's not what we have right now in the budget no but um the conversation obviously as it relates to Sunset Place and and their requirements from from a public benefit standpoint that we're part of the development agreement so what when would that that's theoretical money that may or may not be available for us I mean certainly it's you know we all hope that project starts tomorrow but you know it's got to be designed permitted demolished I don't know that the timeline that money is going to necessarily match up for our ambition to start next year so I again I don't we don't need to have a conversation today but I just want to put that out there because we're going to bring I want to bring an item to start talking about about that so we can give ourselves the flexibility of doing some of this stuff sooner rather than later and maybe we get dollars that allow us to pay the pay those obligations off sooner than we would if we just Finance them all but again right now we're relying on aspirational money to kind of get us to a point where we can actually execute so anyhow um wanted to put that out there by way of conversation because we're a long way from where we need to be to actually do the Improvement um can I a question yes ma'am okay it and it like I like the mayor says it doesn't need to happen right now but if we were to get like even just an idea of hey if you went Bare Bones with whatever you're looking at you know somewhere in the neighborhood of1 to3 million if you went similar to ex neighborhood even just say you know give us scenarios if you wanted something that looked like this this is more or less your price range something like this this is your price range you want it to look like ball Harbor this is your price range just so that we start to get an idea because I think what I find beautiful and then what you know our mayor might find beautiful and down the road varies so I think it helps us food trucks exactly food trucks versus verace um so I think if it helps us to narrow down what what the realistic expectation is like I I want a Lamborghini but I can't afford the insurance you know what I mean I mean don't think that I don't understand I mean this is like I mean the the the example that I would use is is going shopping with my daughter to the mall but I go to the mall first and then I guide her in which shops she can and kind of chop what I'm getting at is we can guide you through the project as it's being designed this is the upper end middle range lower end and we can do that by also making modifications to the design with you uh what I what I could do is give you a range right now um and I could work with a manager to see what that range looks like and whether or not it's something that is feasible for the city I think that eventually what what what is more helpful is to get on with the design and as we're designing these Alternatives ensure that they fit you know the brackets or the the the different uh budgets that that that could be envisioned and then value engineer some things uh I think that would be that would be the way again going back to my example I wouldn't just you know at home tell my daughter do not go to the shops I would first you know try and see what it is that is in that that she would like you know the words what the city would like to see and then be begin to to to to figure out what those budgets are okay I I I'm following what you're saying because obviously the shopping got me um so that wasn't my intent myself but can I tell you you're a smart man smart man um so I think maybe before we jump into that conversation we even if it's in an informal conversation ourselves say this is my point of pain like I know my point of pain I can shop for a pair of shoes at Stuart whitesman I'm okay I get to leaton not so much can I can I help with this example we can maybe get to something that's a little bit more concrete I mean my rough math and I'm again I don't remember how many linear feet are in a mile but say 5,000 plus or minus right so we're talking about 12,500 linear feet of improvements we need to do that's Sunset only that's no that's the whole the whole project area that we've identified correct is two and a half miles of linear two and a half linear 2.38 let's just R round it up because I'm rounding down is five okay so I'm rounding down the number of linear feet in a mile at $200 a linear foot it's $25 million right so you know is there an order of magnitude cost on what the linear foot Improvement costs if we did something just vary vanilla so we have a sense of what we need to come up with by way of a differential you know I not a question for you to answer today no but certainly one that we would appreciate you coming back with as we begin begin this exercise yes sir yeah Mr Mayor the other the other things that we're also challenged with sometimes is that in in U wanting to become very aggressive of you know trying to draw doll dollars from other places right is that we don't have projects that may be at a certain level that would qualify for vending so you know these are these are part of these uh uh leveraging other dollars we may have to take something to a certain extent before we can go pursue so our goal would be to go pursue other dollars as well for this project anywhere that that it may qualify for other people's money is always welcome but we've always relied on other people's money and then there's no improvement there is The Pursuit cost of design again I think this is all we all commissioner Lan knows this is our number one priority we need to spend these dollars I think it'll be money well spent but we do need to come up very quickly with a plan to execute on the design because I do not want to look back in 12 months and say we do not have a solution correct that's exactly right so with that uh I I do have a comment on the on the on the project area I share with Mr M on the phone today I I would like us to add into the into the map the city hall property specifically for one task as we think about putting out a solicitation if we can get to that slide sorry I'm messing it up John helping us out there okay so one thing that does not seem to be in the project scope is this campus and so again part of the puzzle that I'd like to unwrap is as we communicate to the market what we want want this campus to look like where should the public space possibly be situated to leverage and complement the development so I I would like us to authorize potential as an additional item you know ideas on where Gene Willis Park could be relocated relative to the underline or relative to the activation of this 5 acre campus including the library for purposes of our discussion so we can inform the market about maybe one or two scenarios that we would like to see that could you know serve to create kind of an iconic destination public space on this linear path that that would be my suggestion I don't know how the rest of the board feels about it can I ask you yes ma'am so and and feel free to tell me what you think as well um so then are you saying you'd want us to have a vision of something general here for somebody else to fit into versus letting someone come to us with their Vision why why would we do that um because I don't want exclusively the economics of someone's proposal driving where they want to put public space I so I I think I I'd love to get you know our design professionals exp my concern is the expediency of maximizing dollars which is another need that we have right versus getting necessarily something that really works and is going to start as a compliment and Gathering space on I think an improvement that is a wonderful addition which is the underline but right now south of Bickle lacks for places that uh are signature public and green spaces right where people can gather and have an act an activation that could serve as the center of you know what could be a new Activity Center in our in our town is that through the mayor is that something that we were thinking about doing in the RFQ process as well no I thought about that as well I I I thought we would do it in the RFP but I thought we would be wise to spend a few dollars with their time and talent to kind of come up with a couple Alternatives we're not going to say you got to do any one but here's what we think might be might make for some good alternatives okay and give them a little bit of direction as to what we want by way of an activation I don't know if you have any thoughts on that if that's something you can help us with I'll have to defer to my to with my colleagues but uh I think that we can include that as part of the public Outreach and based on what public out you know include those questions as part of public Outreach the only issue that I see here is that mostly we're looking at Public public right of ways and we are adding a component which is not a right way so that's why I'm saying saying we could include it as part of the public Outreach questions so I I I would take a slightly different approach I'll take issue with your characterization what we're talking about is public spaces and and and our town center needs a series of public spaces I think another point I want to make is on the east side it would be good if you could help us identify what the optimal location would be for a Civic Plaza or space that would complement the stre gear and allow us to activate these rights of ways as well so I mean just want to broaden our think a little bit because we're talking about placem and typically places start with public places right we talk about a Civic green to kind of organize the community around and we lack for those right now and I think there's been a long-standing desire on the part of the public to see a couple spaces a couple options identified where we can approach a developer a partner to either contribute Land Design it for us build it for us or we go out and acquire it and build it ourselves Mr Mayor would love designing so this is a great challenge I just want to make sure that it we can you know the narrative of the entire project or the attention of the project of the right of way uh are you know why I'll tie it into this my my colleague here has been talked about an idea for a long time you know the merits of which we can debate but it's an idea which is should 73rd Street be the Principal pedestrian street right and I would tell you should we War without warrant having we have a public garage which is the designation Reservoir garage we always Clos Sunset very disruptive for East West traffic right it impedes people's access to the reservoir garage should we be thinking about a Civic space that's on 73rd as kind of the organizing Center for that Port of our our town center and could 7 sections of 73rd be you know activated like haralo at certain points in the day right I think it's a it's a conversation that we need your help you know we'd like to have but we need the guidance from professional design professionals to help inform what the options could look like whether we execute them or not it's something that we can include as part of our scope for this okay so yes sir yeah the only thing I'd add in might be something for the city manager but it would be great to have these kind of scheduled check-ins with us as the process goes along plans in the past have come to us at the very end um in this case actually we'll have a a new branding for the downtown within six months with signage so something like that us getting to see something ahead of time or you know certainly not disrupting the process but but keeping us informed would be great whatever checkpoints those may be I know there's a steering committee and like I said we certainly don't want to slow things down but okay okay questions about the scope or the uh project parameters nope any comments commission lean your hands up go ahead sir yes um thank you so um not to Mr is anything you said mayor but but to continue with with everything you said um yeah I heard the term value engineering and it's interesting this proposal came in $5,000 I think 99 adding to 99 short of a million dollars and mayor and I expressed this the city manager in uh my agenda briefing him last week um I I I have absolutely and probably exponentially the same concerns you do like I know how much the recipe is the recipe is a million dollars and always honest D I didn't like the answer I heard at all and you said how much is infrastructure and Hardware going to cost the answer I don't know Big Range wide range I we need to know right now if we can afford this if we can't afford it there's no reason to continue as much as I want this and I'll continuously say it's the best thing we can do we need to protect our tax base or cash cow which accounts for 2third of our tax base and this is something that will touch every resident multiple times a day T investors and also visitors to our city it'll brand the city continue with everything else of of champion but that said why go forward we can't afford in terms of the monies and all those monies I fall for you know the place making initiative and the negotiation with with Avalon Bay it's not all for design that that's for infrastructure so I hear your point it says 311 in The Proposal hear the the number also that that you mentioned um a third which was about 330 um for Sunset Drive I'd rather start with sunset drive and use the difference for hardware and for infrastructure because Sunset Drive um it gets exponentially more eyeballs and more foot traffic just more exposure than any the other streets and it'll all trickle over and then if at that point we can afford to do more then we'll do it and we can always duplicate what we have and one of the things I said in the previous meeting when we were considering whether at least I was suggesting it whether one firm or two firms was that another firm what I like liked about them what I mentioned is that they were very concerned about number one the city's budget for the infrastructure and hardware and two suggesting uh plac making Furniture Hardware that was that fit that was in line with the city's budget and that was also low maintenance and had longevity so I need I need hard answer even if it's just an abstract number and honestly mayor it's not worth spending all this this money if we're going to do something that's just doesn't have to be the most extravagant but it should not in my opinion be the most basic either right anything would be an improvement over what we we have now and it's desperately needed again I tell people every day walk our commercial area it is so so neglected but um it's embarrassing yeah Comm I would just say I don't think anything that we're talking about is outside of our reach it's just a matter about how we want to if we're willing to structure financing because I just don't think our plan to kind of pay as you go and or Wai on revenues from Sunset Place is going to be from a timing perspective going to match up with you know when we would want to start improvements even just on Sunset Drive which I I I think probably with you know a million and a half dollars of of a million a half dollar budget we probably could get a fairly nice product for just that segment from 57 to to us one well we should go 57 to 62nd right that's we should but we should but if we just wanted to start with a section that gets the most eyeballs I mean that's the one you know the I would say the west side you know uh um some of that cost may get picked up with this project frankly you know we can just dictate what the aesthetic looks like and it can be incorporated into the Redevelopment proposals that are are brought forward so again I know the cost of the the recipe it's a million dollars I I need an idea of what the cost of the infrastructure and the the hardware will be I I can't vote for this BL we're talking about the scope but but still I would tell you I my my my my best guess would be it's going to be in the order of5 to7 million it's just kind of my working my working number but that's just my guess in addition to this for for everything to execute to do this to to execute this proposal I'd say let's say $8 million maximum with this million dollars of spending on the front end and Sir what he is that realistic what I don't know that he's a position what's realistic in terms of our ability to finance or pay for8 million I don't know is that Juan Joe you have any idea you think that's a realistic uh back of the envelope number I I think it's a realistic back of the envelope number maybe a little bit High I was thinking a little bit less three four three to$ four million do to execute improvements on the on the two and a half linear I figure that the the the design CI the project management 30% of the construction cost and you got a million dollars in your $3 million $4 million and you know just say we're lowball on it at that point you're three to five okay conservative so I think I'm underneath your number but but you know how I mean a house cost a million dollars yeah I mean this is two and a half miles of road yeah Mr manager yeah I I I think part of this is is sort of you making making up for uh lack of Investments for for quite some time right and and then looking ahead for investment that that's going to uh hold um its value o over time so so really I see the investment in the planning and design um stretches whatever number of years you want to go back um that that probably the Investments were not made to to stay sort of competitive so I I stretch this investment backwards and forwards right I mean it hits us all at once and that's the reality so so I I understand it but you know as I as I looked at it and that's why it's a scope conversation but I didn't want to have it without some context of of price but I I I I I truly believe I mean I thought about this hard this is the investment that is catching up for lost time and the investment that's going to set us up kogan grov has gone through this cycle cor Gables has gone through the cycle and and those planning efforts and Investments now you know have brought brought back those areas and that's you know where people are going uh mind you you still go go through Maro M you see a lot of storefronts that are that are closed so it's a economic issue uh we're seeing uh a bigger you know bigger brunt of that right from a micro micro uh area but the reality is is an investment that is uh that it's time has come um and unfortunately we are catching up but I think it's an investment looking forward so I I I spread the dollars over those years um and that's what it's going to take at the end of the day you know we're we're going to have to you know figure out whether two million or 3 million how we're going to you know make that happen um but I I think it's it's a sort of Moment of Truth from a milestone standpoint um that to get us over the hump over the long term and see what we need uh because if not the value I think is going to be negligible right if we sort of um downsize this and make the mistake that many cities make uh from a planning standpoint where they get to this point and they value engineer you know they end up with something obsolete the day they open it Andor wish they would have done more right and I want to make sure that we we don't make that mistake because we're we're catching up and we need to make an Investments for the long term so we're not going to overturn what's going on from an economic standpoint but the investment that we can make and position us I think it's important so it's hard uh Financial I'm not saying that every element of the scope is is is necessarily needed to the degree that it's needed I mean I think they're proper best practice elements but order of magnitude we're going to have to make a sizable investment from a design planning standpoint to position us uh for for the future and um um you know this is not the only area that that we have to think through um and we're going to have to prioritize because we have limited funds and we need to be good stewards of that so i' I've struggled with this but I that's where I land on it it's an investment that his time is common past um and unfortunately it's our turn of the barrel to deal with it um but that that's my uh that's my pitch through the mirror yes sir so following up on that I'm sorry did I you're good you're good you're good um following up on that one of the one of the dis just a reminder we got 20 minutes left on the clock I'm not going to take 20 minutes okay I'm usually pretty no no just that was a general comment that and then we all turn into pumpkins um you weren't privileged to the qualification process of the vendor and I think what I'm trying to say with that is we we don't know the experiences that they already bring the expertises that they've gone and one of the things to follow up on commissioner leman's you know remarks is that they do have or have an understanding of what we can actually pay for something like this you know if we if we go through Miracle Mile and I use that as a reference point all the time and in and other you know places that I've researched while going through this process in the books that I read There is a certain type of number that we can reference through all the projects that you guys have had you guys have an abundance of companies that have all gathered together to go do this there's a wealth of knowledge between all you guys that's the reason you're here um I I would I would ask you guys to kind of come back and and look at something like that I know we have a rough you know magnitude of numbers but really have an understanding of what we're trying to do just these are some of the scenarios that you guys have done before this is something that we've budgeted design gone through construction this is what it looked like um and it cuz we weren't part of that qualification process right so you know the people that we picked to be on that they made the decision you guys are here we haven't seen that and maybe we need to go I mean I think I mean we picked those people for a reason I don't disagree with we are going to make May a point of comfort it's a point of comfort and it's just understood I'm not I'm not referencing like to yeah to do pick the design that's not that's not my forte I think in the concept of us the we're a very resourceful uh commission here like our board we are very resourceful we will figure it out but it is you know to to commissioner Leeman's Point it'll be good to understand what we need to go get and we can get close to that number not necessarily to it but at least an understanding if it's 3 million it's three million it's five it's five it's seven it's seven we can provide for you some examples what the prices are I think that's what I'm asking I think you know that's that's totally fair and I think that we can do that you know to and submit it to the manager in the next couple of days actually yeah thank you that would be that would be easy what what I what my point of not wanting to give a specific number or or even a a a a well defined range is and again I'll use another example but we don't know what kind of car we don't know what kind of brand and so you know it's like you were saying you know do you want a Ferrari or do you want to oh no I I understand I understand and and even within the brand what range in the brand so we want to get this process started so that we can understand which direction we're going and then within that direction I did not commissioner did not mean value engineering you know with the meaning that it has but understanding that whatever design comes out of this process we can begin to look at what kind of specs go into the project to ensure that it fits within the budget that you guys have allocated um but it sounds like the budget is not set the design is not set set the quality and the elements of the design is are not set so there's there's so many unknowns right now that yes we can give you an estimate of we can give you the numbers of what other projects have costed and you can get a sense of you know if it looks like this it'll cost this much if it looks like that it would cost this much but specific to Sunset understood can in good faith I've seen way too many projects that go over budget that get uh you know change orders over and over and over again uh and then you you know that you lose faith in in your consultant no no I I'm in the construction business I understand sometimes you're going to pick towel all of a sudden you pick marble and it goes 4X I I understand that part I just think for Comfort level if we see what's been out there and what what it cost it it'll be better because I've never done streetcape I've never done you know all the infrastructure so just I'm just Googling as we're talking Miracle Mile $19 million that's a half it's a half mile long right away both sides a linear linear mile so you know it's it's it's what $1900 a foot or $2,000 a foot if we're in that range it's going to be it's a very expensive proposition I don't know that we're going to go quite to that design extent but I I think we can it's a wider Road it's a wider Road much larger segment there there are differences no doubt it's got a very generously appointed Center median you know very expensive pavers that were selected um you know we can I think you know the question is what do we want to authorize to start this process today can I ask my question yeah just because I I want clarification because I think I'm I'm confused when we gave the3 to5 million it was to cover all of the streets it's a it's just Sunset Drive so just Sunset Drive will be between three to5 million as a standard yeah as a stand I keep hitting this thing as a standard no marble no no marble hello we're going to be cheek on the floor like sure we can't afford marble we're doing you know leave and you recognized so sorry I misunderstood that too my question was how much to execute the whole plan in a ballpark to execute the 2.38 miles correct miles everything that you're going to propose in here so I said I know much the I know much the recipe is how much are the ingredients you're talk you're you're asking about the design or the or the construction documents or the actual construction of the project execute everything that you're proposing they haven't designed they haven't construction they haven't designed anything so I think I think the question is they haven't designed anything so it's a difficult question for them to answer is what I've heard I think the question is what is what is the likely order of magnitude of Street improvements right what's the outside range of what we would spend we would need to spend to complete the full project I think that's the question you're asking commissioner Leman correct if we wanted to build the 2.3.8 million what would it cost on average because I don't think they can answer what it would cost to execute the recipe because the recipe is they have a g they have an approach but the ingredients that they're going to use have not been defined right they know how they're going to do they know how they're going to execute preparing the dish but the actual ingredients that we're going to let them use have not been procured yet so to use the recipe analogy so if we are you know if if if 3 to5 is half a mile if you're thinking of 2.5 miles it would be 15 to 25 giving you a range very wide range yes yes a question I have just go a follow I'm sorry Comm Le you recognized sorry so quickly in in the interest of time and to stay true to the scope and based on you know that loose I know it's just a broad estimate we were given I how can we support going Beyond red to US1 or red to 62 which I really wanted what to do on Sunset cu the Optics the connectivity um and um but in addition every dollar not I mean not that that you cut from here so number one every dollar you cut is another dollar toward Hardware but not just that it's exponential because it's going to take us from 5 to seven to I don't numbers 15 to 18 um but the other thing is there's $150,000 in The Proposal just for public input so yeah again in the interest of time if we just want to speak about the scope and every dollar saves is another dollar to infrastructure 150,000 for public input um a lot of times that just complicates things much further it's it's so so just setting aside the construction drawings for Sunset it's $585,000 rough math right so um you're saying you'd like to eliminate the $45,000 for Community outre I I mean I had a conversation with Mr Mur today commissioner to that point I don't know that I want to do public Outreach in the traditional sense where we have charettes Etc we should certainly have some public information meetings but I think the better which for some of the data we're trying to collect which is not just about the physical improvements it's about Market opportunities how people perceive the market what they would want to see here in order to come here um you know I think we should probably I suggest that we should consider Focus grouping different cohorts of people people in you know major employers uh developers um people in certain submarket markets for which this is the kind of natural natural catchment area so we get some a little bit more nuanced feedback than just you know what we typically get in a in a non statistically valid um you know uh public engagement process we would do that through focus groups as we do on an ised corre I I do highly recommend that we do approach your your constituents and your stakeholders I mean we we need to have we need to do that no doubt input and and public report otherwise we'll find ourselves at the end of the project and nobody supporting we we we find ourselves in that very same position which is why this conversation got started when we had a design that no one had seen and was terrible so and oh good no you're good if we are only right now talking about the process and the design and then we're trying to figure out what we can afford to build it's not going to change much about what's in front of us right now perhaps we could draw back the scope and only do one side of US1 or or maybe not as much in terms of design I don't know how much that's going to affect this price I think the question we're all having to ask oursel is how much we're going to we're going to start with on the construction side right or it's just not doing I commissioner leman's question is should we spend the $585,000 or should we just focus on whatever elements are essential that lead us to a design for Sunset I think you know I think we should have a design that is one that we can execute across downtown we may only choose to build sense at first because it's all that we can afford in the near term right right so I mean I well I I I'll I don't I'll end it with this through the mayor I'm sorry um we all when we've got together and said this is our priority this was number one so if we're going to invest dollars in making sure that our return is going to be x amount which it will be this is the right way of doing this so I'm on full support of making sure that we have the best design possible whether we can execute all of it then we'll worry about that but at least we'll we'll worry we'll figure out what we need to get to go execute yeah and I'll say this I feel I feel better about spending 585 on this than the $500,000 we spent designing you know designing other improvements that we've this commission's approved before that have never come close to being realized so this commission this commission meaning this body and whatever prior Incarnation so I'm taking it through construction yeah the construction before you get to construction documents for sunset sunset drive right y I agree so I I think you know commissioner lean if if you're what I what I what I will commit for myself is if you're saying you know if we're concerned about the back end which I am as well right and we have to choose to build something I think we choose to spend the money first for any the execution of any design improvements on such a drive I don't know if that's what you're what you're asking as well so if I can do if I all I can come up with $5 million of Monies to executed uh an improvement is in my mind we're going to spend that on 72nd Avenue 32 Street excuse me my apologies it's late all right mayor so in terms of the scope yeah land the plane what is there anything you would want to remove from I think tasks uh one through four because that's the first $58 $85,000 I had some questions I asked them offline of the consultant I'm comfortable with yes comfortable with those expenditures but we can talk about them further Drive i' run the scope I've always said sunet Drive 57th to 62nd we can even afford to do that then we can revisit everything else and duplicate the design perfect everything we do there will trickle down and and pay dividends everywhere else and if there's more money I again we're we're we're whatever the commission wants to do no I I get it I just want to be clear we're not we're not um we're what we're proposing is not just a design for Sunset Drive it's a design that we can replicate for all of downtown so you want you want to pair back the scope from a design perspective to just Sunset Drive is that what I'm hearing to what we can afford to do that that's just one opinion I say we move forward with the design as it is if we need to scope back and just do CDs which that's all the construction documents are only for Sunset anyway the design will give us the implementation all the way across the board we're not saving that much money anyway when it comes to the full design so let's just move forward it all the way through CDs until CDs construction documents still the 500,000 yes go ahead and I'll remind us we have about seven minutes on the clock if we're looking at the numbers as they stand right now till we get to CDs if we decided to do only Sunset Drive if you were guessing a percentage that that would be minimized by is it 4% is it I'm just trying to see I know I'm trying to see numberman I'm trying to see between where commissioner leedman is and where commissioner GAA is look the the first part of the expenditures I understand and I had to call him and to really kind of get comfortable with it is about understanding how d functions today and how it's going to function in the future based on what we intend to what we're intending to authorize by way of development so if that's not information we want if we just want to do release them to do a design for Sunset Drive maybe we should table this item and have a conversation with just about that uh and worry about the placemaking of just that one street but but the conversation is int was intended to be broader than that and the first $585,000 is Broad Strokes understanding the macro picture of our town center right so we've got we got to get comfortable with that first and then we can talk about how we Finance the improvements of one segment based on this on this feedback or the entirety of the two and a half linear miles that we have to tackle and Mr Mayor if I may this is our first attempt to put a scope together based of on one meeting yeah with the manager I'd be happy to work on this a little longer if that's something that we again the only the only constraint is it's time with a $900,000 of improvements that we're trying to take advantage of so um we can I mean this money is not going to be spent all at once right so we can authorize this now and maybe come back and have a followup conversation at the next meeting to talk about if we want to prioritize or remove some of these items in the scope but I think you know if you were if you were starting on task one that's that's we have to do I would imagine regardless from your perspective so I think we should authorize task one so we can get started and not delay the process any further I would like to modify it to include the public space uh you know Vision exercise for both the east side and west side of the town center and if we want to pick up this conversation on task two three and four at the next meeting we can continue because I know we were we're quickly going to turn into a pumpkin yep so I'll move the motion with the modification I'll second is that is that from a timeline perspective at least keep us on Pace one one yeah okay okay so let's again because I want to I want to be respectful as we always are of each other's thoughts on these topics so let's if I get a motion on task one have it already second okay we have a second okay a motion from commissioner Kai a second from commissioner Corey commissioner lean any last thoughts okay we'll have a conversation hopefully on financing at the next meeting so it'll be an appropriate time to talk about the other items as well so with that no further comments Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner Kay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner lean yes Vice bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes item pass 5 Z thank you and that uh we are we stand a jour