##VIDEO ID:U7HndYpiNnA## this is the Board of Health meeting October 3rd 2024 we're meeting I don't know think is this room 101 yeah okay um presid at the meeting I'll just go and introduce uh myself and everybody else subasa Tom Hibbert our health director Samantha grundon our secretary on Zoom we have Dr Linc and then we have don't tell me we have Meredith o who's the director of the Pioneer Valley tobacco Coalition and Lisa is Lisa on and Lisa Stevens of the mass Municipal Association tobacco control program we are waiting for Dr putam Who should be joining us soon um and from the public we have Erica proudy I cover everything yeah we have one other person that's called in Lyla Gibson okay lla Gibson so um any public comment before we start we will talk to Meredith and Lisa when we get to the tobacco stuff but um is that Terry that's Robert Melvin um so Le lla do you have anything you want to say or Robert do you have anything you want to say during the public comment period I'm just I'm just observing uh ma'am thank you okay um same with me thank you all right so the review of the minutes did you get to look at the minutes Trish yes I made a few um little Corrections like added Mr Hibbert instead of Hibert um and then a few little um grammatical things do you have anything you want to add nope how about you Tom there's nothing right do you want to make a motion to accept the minutes from August 29th 2024 sure can I make a mo sorry my voice um I'll make a motion to pass the minutes from August all right I second that motion and subasa all in favor subasa yes yes patri okay so those are all sent to go um we don't have Trisha on for the nursery report no she had a family thing so she couldn't um so we do have Trisha's nursing report a hard copy of it did um Trish get a copy of the nursery report and on Terry y okay so so the nurs report I guess we're just going to file unless you have any questions on it Trish or anything nope no questions okay um that Terry oh there we go hi Terry can you hear us she was muted go is she muted you're muted up hold on I didn't think so no let me turn up because I'm not muted hear okay so we're we um we got past the nursing report now we're going to talk about the tobacco Rigs and we have on board Meredith oi and Lisa Stevens good night or just good night um to join in our discussion who wants to start off I can introduce it and then we'll go from there all right so um so we have our draft that we had accepted our previous I think it was at our July meeting um and last week Ken and I met with um with Meredith and Lisa um just to talk about the the regulation and see if there was any issues um so there were kind of two two main overall it was pretty good um and the kind of the two main things that we had talked about was um whether or not we wanted to add in the restriction for for um oral nicotine pouches um to be sold in adult only establishments um and also whether or not on Page in the violation section I think it was page 10 page 10 um we say for the second and third violations um the Board of Health May suspend the permit for seven or 10 days respectively um so the recommendation there was we should considered um changing it to shall um which I think makes sense because it just kind of removes that choice um on the behalf of the board it's more consistent across the board uh we won't ever get into that situation of in in one violation we choose not to do the suspension the next one we do the suspension and with a fairness it's I think um more fair across the board um to say shall and then you know they they did the violation and that's the punishment and that's that um so I think that um I think that makes sense but um though I think those were the two the two big things um I know I don't know a ton about the oral nicotine pouches so um Lisa or Meredith I don't know if you have anything you want to add um about either of those issues or or anything else sure I would be happy too um hi everyone I I've met you all in the past but just reminder I'm Meredith oi I tonight am wearing my hat as the Pioneer Valley tobacco Coalition coordinator and I help um provide ta to Boards of health and health departments around policy work tobacco work um so as part of our work we have tobacco compliance officers that go into these stores on a regular basis we have over 400 stores and are collaborative and they do education visits inspection checks and they also do youth compliance checks and we're always reporting um they're reporting back to me which I'm bringing that information up to the state about what we're seeing in our store any types of Trends and as of late the new trend that we're seeing explode like we saw um juwel explode back in 2019 2018 is we're seeing these oral nicotine pouches being utilized um especially by youth you know I want to say about six months ago um we started observing more of them um the presence of them in our stores and now um I know stores are having difficulty getting them but the stores that do have them they have multiple brands of them and multiple shelves of them and again these are very Sleek small little pouches that are very discret to use they're very inexpensive and they have a lot of nicotine content in them um I've seen them up to 35 milligrams and the one t of these pouches on a lower milligram base nicotine gram base is equivalent to two and a half packs of cigarettes um and kids are using them for adrenaline brushes so um again what we try to do is really curb youth initiation um to these type of products so a lot of our pvtc members are updating their regulations to include restricting oral nicotine pouches to adult only establishments where you have to be 21 and show your ID even to walk into the establishment because there is smart marketing around these things as well Lisa do you want to add anything thing or board members do you have questions for me no that was pretty pretty explanat you know self-explanatory I mean you did a nice job thank you you're welcome and I can introduce myself um I'm Lisa Stevens good night I'm the director of Tobacco Control at the Massachusetts Municipal Association um and we represent the 351 towns and cities in Massachusetts and in my role I provide technical legal assistance to cities and towns on Tobacco Control and enforcement policy and so I can answer and I also helped draft um some of the language and the regulations we put out like a model set um so I can help answer any questions you may have um Meredith did a great job with the nicotine pouches so it doesn't sound like I need to answer any questions there which is which is great um but uh yeah so that's that's why I'm here and I'm happy again to answer any questions you guys have and if I don't have an answer I can always you know get back uh to either come back to see you guys or um you know get get the answers to your health director so um and then the last kind of copy that I always have to say is that while I do offer legal assistance I'm not uh your attorney so you always want to talk to your Town Council if there's a a specific legal question okay we don't have any adult only establishments in town correct correct so therefore if we did this we'd be hurting the adults we trying to quit I think we talked about the same issue yeah I don't think when we talked I don't think we went too in depth when we talked about it but um but yeah it would effectively be a ban unless someone was to open an adult only establishment we don't have in town right what are your thoughts Terry I mean is there a way to uh and and and pardon me if I'm asking a question that's pretty obvious it is there a way to restrict the the nicotine as though the nicotine pouches as in the same manner that we restrict cigarette sales what is you have to be oh how it's restricted for you if I just may add something um that these nicotine pouches aren't um there's no science that they're being um that they are use uh a nicotine cessation product An approved nicotine cessation product um so yeah so you're saying that they're not inadequate they've not been proven to be a substitute yeah yeah but they're not but they haven't been proven not to be a substitute already that you have to be 21 or over I don't see that so I can talk a little bit about like kind of what um was the thought like why we put this in and one of the concerns that we have is just the growth that we've seen around these products um we know that well many products are restricted to under 21 sales do happen to people that are under 21 so you know there is youth initiation under 21 and um again these are one of the products we're seeing kind of the fastest growing there's also in terms of the cessation question so they are not an approved cessation Dev uh product and on top of that so there's kind of a different there's different levels of nicotine obviously in different products these we've seen kind of the standard ones most people see are Zen which is six uh six milligrams and uh 8 milligram amounts but as Merida said we've seen products that go all the way up to 35 milligrams in a pouch to put that in comparison to other to like approve cessation amount um products nicar gun comes in two and four milligram uh doses basically so the this is in terms of just the amount of nicotine being delivered is is substantially some of these are substantially substantially higher like you know 10 to 20 times as much nicotine um as at a cation device or product would have and one of the other concerns is that because they are so discreet they're so easy to use um without people catch without people seeing that it's almost impossible once they're in the hands of uh especially youth to try to track or um like yeah like like tell if they're using them so it the goal is to get them as much out of people out of the hands of especially young people um but also you see kind of the ramping up of people using these higher nicotine M we you know that's always a concern and I guess my other question would be and and uh Trish and and Sue don't let me monopolize is what are other towns doing right now has this is this something that's being that's being implemented in other towns not that we have to do what other towns are doing but but uh um that that that does help us you know see what the trend is so the language that you guys are looking at uh was first put into the model regulations I think over the summer I'm trying to remember when we put when we actually distributed them I looked at them for so so many times I'm remember when he actually like handed them out to um the programs but it was in the middle of the summer and there's only one town at this time that has gone through the process of adopting the language they kind of were like just starting the process when we gave out the new model regulations so they were kind of the first one in there there are a number of other towns that are considering this language so I I you wouldn't be um like it's unlikely that your town would be alone but you would be kind of one of the first ones just because of when the language was put out and when you guys are doing your up your um update Trish what do you think sorry it's going to be a little hard to hear me but I think that these pouches appear not to be approved by the FDA and they also appear to be not recommended by the CDC as well so knowing those two pieces you know I have to agree that these should be only an adult um locations did you both get um the correspondences from Peter Brennan and Jeff Jeffrey Smith I just got them because I couldn't open the folder so so I I have not I think I got a separate email from Tom but I'm just getting it from the hospital so I have not I I not had a had a chance to look at those you know we can always say we don't want to B nicotine pouches as time goes on depending how things go we can always revamp our rigs correct yeah um Lisa do you know if the the town that has adopted um this restriction do did they have any adult only establishments in their town they did not they did not so they're the same boat as us okay is it Northampton it's it's orange the town of orange okay Lisa Greenfield has adopted it as well yes Greenfield has um and I said there's a I know trying to think September was kind of a crazy time A lot of people are updating their regulations right now so I can't off the top of my head remember which ones are but I haven't had any Town say that they're not considering this in the regulation update I guess would be the way I would say it okay well that's certain you know I can I I I I'm being Pediatric and OB uh in in background I can certainly um uh understand the need to restrict because once and it is hard you know kids have a a hard enough time without being introduced to stuff that's really going to impact the rest of their lives um and hard for parents to track so I you know um uh I would like to consider um I I I don't we don't need to make a decision tonight right or or we'll go into yeah so I'll I'll just step sorry to cut you off a little bit but just to clarify for the board members and everyone so we still have our public hearing um for this draft regulation is next Thursday um so I think tonight we can kind of um see where the board's at and regarding these two changes the the May and shall um and if we want to add in the language of the nicotine pouches um if we do if the board does decide to do that I will update the draft regulation that we have posted on the website um and then we'll still have the public hearing so anyone who is against the regulation for the regulation whatever will still have their chance to be heard at the public hearing next week and so what thank you I'm sorry to interrupt you but but uh uh uh right back at you Tom um so what how do we Define youth how are the T how are the towns defining youth um because what what we don't you know if if we discuss it in in you know we decide to go to to you know whatever our decision is what we don't want to have is an undue burden on on our V our our our town businesses because now we're going to introduce yet another age that they have to that they have to worry about um so so what how are we defining that how is that defined mer or in the draft tobacco EGS the definition of an adult only retail tobacco store um which is where the S if we adopted this um language where the sale of the nicotine pouches would be restricted to um it's on page three of the regulation if you want to look at it it's um fairly lengthy so I'll try to summarize it without going word for word but it's basically um an establishment that doesn't have it's not part of any other business um so even like a a liquor store you know technically would pretty much mainly be just people 21 and older um that's not within the definition so it in essence it would be um like a smoke shop um that could sell the the nicotine pouches um and it would be restricted to anyone to even step foot into the store would have to um show their ID and and be 21 to to get in so that's in a a summary of the regulation but it is in the draft um that definition of adult only retail tobacco store okay but if we if we decided to in in our if we're if if this truly is going to impact we don't have adult only but we have we have uh uh stores that sell um uh these things if we were to say okay you could sell them to adults you could sell them to to but it so we're saying 21 is the D is the age for for for anyone to sell so so we're not talking but the new draft res uh regulations are to lower that age is that what I'm is that what I'm hearing nope nope so the the the and Merith or Lisa correct me if I'm wrong but the the state laws are what restrict the age to buy those to 21 um so we would just be restricting where they can be sold okay um so we would be saying they can only be sold in an adult only establishment where you have to be 21 to get in so that would mean the gas stations liquor stores any everywhere in town anyone that I don't know how many of our establishments actually do sell these um but they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to sell them because they're not an adult only uh retail tobacco store so we can't we can't be ingenious and and and put that regulation on on a a not an adult only store is that so this really what I'm saying is we can't have pouches and I know you know I know that that the evidence is out there that they don't uh because I heard the original thing that they don't uh help with smoking sensation but these people are over 21 um and and you know we we're we're not taking cigarettes from people who are over 21 and we all know that those are dangerous for your health but if we should decide we want that that that's the only people these can be sold to can do we have the right or the state backing or or the the interest to do that in in in our in our everybody comes and can get whatever they want to accept cigarette and liquor is that that's what I'm asking I understand we don't have an adult only we got nothing like that um so we we we can't impact um sales in in our in our uh uh service stations is that is that is that a correct statement I think so all orone it's already at 21 to buy those so okay um so I don't think I don't know if any towns have I guess maybe we theoretically we could make the age higher but I don't know that we would want to do that um no it's already 21 is what what I'm trying to say is if we're being excluded so we're now we're now going to borrow it for everybody because we don't have an adult only what I'm saying is if the concern among some is that adults you know if adults are going to you know if adults want to get that they should be able to get it but how can we protect youth in that situation is what I'm saying how can we how can we balance both um how do you protect how do you protect the youth from yeah getting cigarettes it's the same way Ian we don't sell we don't sell cigarettes to under 21 right so then we wouldn't sell nicotine patches till under 21 yeah so as you can see we got a lot to talk about yeah I can't I can't see Banning nicotine pouches for adults no that's not what I'm that's not what I'm saying um I just want to know what the options are I'm not I'm not I'm not I I don't really you know that's not I was concerned with the with the with the um um the reasoning for this is to keep it out of the youth's hand so I was seeing how we could do that without so yeah I'm taking up all the the conversation and I'm did I overwrite I thought I heard you say something did I speak over you no okay is it okay if I is it okay if I chime in a little bit or is this not public comment uh well it's not public comment but go ahead and sure I introduce yourself absolutely my my name is Jeff Smith I am a uh senior fellow on harm reduction at the R Street Institute um which is a think tank in DC but I live in North Carolina we got your correspondence yeah y yep and so when I read the regulations there was a couple things that really popped up as a concern because it feels like there's a lot of pressure putting being put on local uh towns and and cities to to kind of adopt things that may not fit their particular way of living um when I when I heard you guys don't even have adult Only Stores um if you were to include the nicotine pouches in the regulation then then the adult smokers and adults that want to use these products wouldn't be able to purchase them right and you know my training is as as a neuroscientist and so my focus is really understanding uh what drivve smoking behavior and what are alternatives for individuals that want to move to to safer less risky um products that contain nicotine and there's just a tremendous amount of research now showing that these nicotine pouches are as have have carry the same risk as nicotine gum or nicotine patches which the FDA has approved for cessation um and so to not have them in the in the in the gas station right next to the cigarettes you already can't put Vapor ins products next to them you're really limiting options for smokers who stop into the gas station to fill up the car grab a soda and a and and and a Snickers and then see the pack of cigarettes and think well I really want I want to smoke right now but I don't have any other choices because there's nothing else behind the register other than than the cigarettes um and so you know the the reality of it is is that these pouches have gotten a lot of bad press but they're a really useful tool to smokers that are are are in the process of quitting cigarettes to give them something where that will give still give them the nicotine um without um the the the carcinogens that come along with the smoke um so there's there's there is a tremendous amount of research growing in this space there's also a lot of bad press because Zen is a popular brand it's all over social media but what you guys have done is allow for you know the the retailers to be responsible retailers guard the people that come in to buy these products to make sure that they don't get into the hands of kids but allow them to get into the hands of adults um and that's really what we're con concerned about we want to move people away from cigarettes to get them into products that dramatically decrease the risk of of of short and long-term health and and death and if we don't allow these products to be in place where they can easily get to it it's just so easy to go back to buying a cigarette um and that that's our concern we want to make sure you guys have as much information as you as you need or any questions that you might have um just allow for your consumers to your your your citizens in your town to have the options available to them okay Terry or Trish do you have anything yes yeah I'm just interested in the information he could provide Jeff um with studies or whatnot that you've mentioned could you provide those to us so we can take a look at them absolutely um and I think I if you look at the references in the uh in the letter I sent there was a really good article specifically about um um the the benefits associated with nicotine pales in terms of even comparing it to dip and other less risky products is them being on the same level of but I I'll put some I'll put some papers together and send them to you who should I send them to in particular is there any one of you guys you can I think you've already sent an email to me you can send it to Tom H and I'll I'll pass it on to the board okay cool and and I'll be here next week too and so in anytime in the interim if you guys have any questions because the science is crazy uh because it's a relatively new product prodct um the legislative side of things at the federal level is really noisy as well um because you can't really I mean you guys mentioned that none of these products have been approved by the FDA um CTP the center for tobacco products which is absolutely true but they've been sitting in their in the in the inbox at CTP for three years now and it's just because the CTP has been so overwhelmed they haven't been able to get through all the the uh Vapor Products to then start looking and evaluating the uh the uh oral products the new oral products but they're promising that's going to happen sometime in the next year or two so you know we're talking about nicotine pouches have cigarettes been approved by the CDC and FDA well well we're referring to get them getting approved as a a tobacco sensation product well I think we're talk we're actually talking about the same thing it's a consumer product it doesn't it's not going through uh the the group at FDA called Cedar that evaluates drugs and treatments these are just consumer product approvals and yes the cddc excuse me the the the CTP is approving cigarettes every day because the pathway to get into the market for a cigarette is so much easier than it is for new products because there's this uh process called substantial equivalence which basically shows all the tobacco companies have to do is show that their new product is the same as the product before the tobacco protection act with on the market if they could just show that they're the same then they could put that new product into the marketplace so was it extremely easy for tobacco companies to get uh cigarettes on the market and keep them on the market what's really hard is that when you have a new product you have to go through this pathway called the pmta pathway pre-market tobacco authorization and since you can't compare to anything you send in these huge applications the FDA said that they had something like 25 million applications that they've been going through for the last three years trying to get through them all um and those are the products that have been approved there's a couple of products from Reynolds in alria and PMI that have been approved as Vapor Products or heated tobacco products um okay let me um Erica you want to say something um just to get some real time um perspective I so I work um in the middle of Springfield um at a lowincome um Primary Clinic um so and a lot of my patients have actually been asking about these pouches the nicotine replacement P um products that are actually approved by the FDA whether it be the patch the gum or the Loz they're not inexpensive and a lot of insurances do not cover them even if they're written as a prescription um so expense could be a really big um component for a lot of [Music] people okay Terry Trisha do you have anything more you want to ask or say or ADD no a lot of information to consider I agree I'm not okay I'm not sure whether we have to make some kind of decision Meredith raised your hand oh Meredith you have something to say yeah thank you so much Madam chair um yeah I'm all about you know um adult smokers transitioning however they have to to quit the use of tobacco and nicotine eventually um I just want to add a few points here you know it's at the the question after that though is at what cost because what we saw is we saw this happen with electric uh electronic nicotine delivery devices um they originally were being touted like in the 70s and 80s as a sociation product not approved by the FDA and um to help people quit from traditional combustible cigarettes and then all of a sudden we started seeing in um you know the 2010 youth use of traditional cigarettes going down down down and then all of a sudden in 20 in 1617 there's explosion of of these electronic nicotine delivery devices on the market and um marketing towards Youth and we now have this whole new cohort of nicotine users being our Our Youth and that's what I'm here for I'm now wearing my public health hat because I've been working in the public health landscape for over two decades now um I just really when we talk about um tobacco regular ations it's not about the adult user that we're really concerned about it's not it's about not creating a whole another um generation of uh tobacco and nicotine users so I just wanted to put that out there and a good plug for the 1800 quit now line is you can get um tobacco cessation products they do give you free patches so they there is some uh affordability um products out there okay thank you so so much for allowing me to speak she brings up she brings up a great point but again just to make sure that we're we're clear the the the primary reason why we saw the increase in youth use was companies like juwel that didn't know what they were doing you know advertising directly to kids but since then in 2019 uh tobacco 21 passed and now before 2019 it was easy for kids to walk into the gas stations and buy these things now the responsible retailers are going to card anybody that looks like they're under the age of 30 um and ensure that these kids aren't able to buy the products at point of sale all right thank you I gotta move on here so absolutely thank you guys we're gonna have a hearing next week um do we have to agree what we're going to put into our our draft to present it for the hearing no um I'm not sure I mean so we have should we make some decision that we're going to restrict them them or not restrict them in order to present at our hearing Meredith Lisa what do you think on that so I think you should include it in your draft and then at the hearing after you've heard public comment and you've had um an opportunity for a board discussion then you have you propose the vote someone make a motion whether they want to approve that portion of the draft or not Lisa probably can give you a little better advice but yeah um so I I agree with what Merida said um if you want it to be part of the conversation during the public hearing the your best um step forward your kind of the best practice is to include it in the draft um yeah so that that would be my my recommendation um and then the public will have a chance to weigh in on whether or not they would like to adopt this I also just um really quickly want to add that in terms of the cessation device that the nicotine content in these pouches is we're seeing is getting higher and higher so when you talk about cessation the the alternative to that or the kind of counter to that is that really cheap um very high nicotine content products are going to increase the likelihood of people getting um addicted and that is where the concern from this comes about and and again these are not approved cessation devices so okay so I think Trish and um Terry we can make some decision now whether we want to include that in our draft or not include it in the draft my opinion is that you have to be 21 years or older to buy cigarettes you have to be 21 years older to buy nicotine pouches we don't ban cigarettes we shouldn't ban nicotine pouches can I just bring up two points so just two things I wanted to clarify um one is of regarding the access and I understand the cost um may come into play but um if anyone actually is trying to to quit smoking um we do have two pharmacies in town and approved cessation products are available at pharmacies um that's correct Meredith and Lisa yes um and so they there is some access um there could still be issues with that regarding the cost or whatever um and then also regarding you know having responsible Stores um in a perfect world no one would make sales to under 21 um but in our compliance checks we have had four sales this year um we went years without having any sales to miners but um just during the compliance checks there's been four sales this year that we've we've actually caught them selling to miners um so we don't know how many other sales there are um for actual kids that are just trying to go in and buy cigarettes or nicotine pouches or any other um age restricted tobacco products so um just wanted to bring up those two points the other option is why don't we just go by the state regulations and not have our own regulations what's that okay you know about our food regulations we just said forget it we're going with the state yeah why don't we just go with the states I me they're not as detailed um if the state regulations don't have anything about um licensing so then we would it would be a total free for all and they wouldn't need a local license to sell tobacco so I don't think that would be wise no okay anyways that that was my opinion about the nicotine pouches about not not restricting them um Trish and Terry what do you think this is a lot of material to kind of digest tonight I mean from from a from a health care perspective a health care person and again I told you about my background it's it's it's tough to think of of access for kids um but also on the other hand coming from a family of of of smokers who have tried you know various things to quit it's also tough from that standpoint too um uh and it seems to be you know either at this point an all or none we bought it for all the way the regulations or the way the state definition is or if we were to come up with something different I I don't know that we could craft something between now and and the hearing next week and that that's my opinion I you know my opinion is I I I have mixed I I need to to uh digest some of the information and and uh some of the comments that we've had because they've on on both sides they're very compelling arguments how about you Trish I agree with Hannah I do have the same concerns with access that you will have to it so I would like to review stuff just like her and look at those studies too and just see the whole picture and and I think out of fairness when we do a a a public hearing we we tailor it tailor the information piece in much the same way that the town meeting is so that we have information you know that that that defines um uh uh just what patch what the what the pouches are and and the pros and the cons um that would be my and I would like to have some kind of document that shows me the the pros and the cons as well can Jeffrey can you is are you still on yes ma'am can you send something to Tom about the pros I will I will put a a package of information together and and Meredith can you put something together or Lisa about the cons and send that to Tom and and Meredith and and Lisa I'd love to to to look at to see what Tren if you have Trends I'd love to see some data um uh from from both from both Jeffrey and for you that shows the trending um uh both from benefit side and a and a let's keep it out of the hands of kids side okay so so in the meantime how do we handle this so um so it sounds like the three of you are kind of on the fence about it so yeah uh I guess there's the option you could vote right now to to put it into the draft and we can consider it for next week um or if you want wanted even more time than that you could just table it for now and we could revisit it you know we have to go through the whole hearing process and do all that again but we could do that um hearing no uh table the table the nicotine pouches um I think kind of if we want to get it all done um one way or another I think the best thing to do would be to um you know put it into the draft and then we can hear you know anyone can send us their your statements um you know we have a public hearing and then at the end of the hearing we would go into the meeting and then the board would deliberate and you could accept the draft as a whole as written or accept the draft and remove that that part of it do we need to vote or whatever to put it in I think probably that would be a good idea no that's not that's not a vote to decide that this is going to be the adopted regulation that's next week it just be this is the current proposed draft that could still be modified and the the only push back I might have is that it it it comes out as being the opinion of the board if we're putting something in in a draft regulation that it that it looks like we are we all all three of us are saying yep we're we're okay with that and I just I I think I would have to abstain I don't I don't I don't feel comfortable right now um voting on that because I'm not sure okay I don't just to clarify I don't think that would be saying that's the opinion of the board um I think that would just be kind of the openness of of the board this is something that we're considering and that's why we're having a public hearing is we want to hear what the public has to say and it may or may not be modified so I don't think um I mean if you're still not comfortable with it then you know I'm not not trying to change anyone's mind but I I don't think um I don't putting it in the draft I don't think is necessarily um you know an indication of the board is going to do this you don't have a say in it that's that's why we're having the public hearing is because people do have a say all right the other thing is to just postpone the public hearing not have it postpone the public hearing this isn't something that really has to take effect like like the the fees before the end of the year right I mean if we can in in my opinion and Trish don't let me speak for you or or sue if we were able to present present it to make sure that that the the the public who comes uh knows that this is we're putting it out here this is what you know towns are beginning to put in legislation H and we have and and I I would again like some some info to be able to to share at that like we would at a town meeting so people can can you know Give opinions one way or the other I would be comfortable with that if it can be presented as okay this is we're we're throwing this out there and I mean in a better more more more articulate way than that um to get your opinion I don't know what to say pardon I'm not I don't know what to say I don't know how to yeah I I don't I that's what I'm saying it's it's not an easy and and I think it's it's a it's a statement that that both both Meredith and Lisa and Jeff have have put forth good information and Tom as well for doing his homework um M if you have something you want to add sure absolutely if I can add just my um a little guidance here um what I would recommend to my Board of Health if I was wearing my Northampton director's hat is let's not let this one strategy hold up the rest of the regulation I would say exclude it from the regulation right now um put the draft regulation forward for the hearing next week um vote on that and then you can have robust discussions around this one strategy um after the fact there you can amend the regulation you know just as easy after you pass all the good work that you've put into this one yeah I think that's good advice thank you you're welcome do you agree with that t and Trish yes yes okay during the hearing though would we bring up the nicotine pouches no I think we in that case we would not we would we would say it's not in the draft okay and that's that's that so nitin pouches would would be allowed until we and then you know future meetings we can continue the conversation and um if we get to a where uh the board is in agreement that yes we want to do this um then at that point we could propose a draft call a public hearing go through the process again okay um so so if that's not changing then I guess we should discuss the shall versus May so on page 10 under the violations we have may be suspended for seven days the other one says may be suspended for 10 days it's under one B and C um the um recommendation was to change May to shall so that there's no room for interpretation yeah um or do we want to have room for interpretation I think that's where we get into trouble when we can when we and I think that's why we when we did our our uh liquor underage liquor we we you know set the example I I my vote would be to to adopt the shell chis what's your thought adopt the shell okay so I don't know do we need to vote on that because we're not voting on yeah just um just make a someone make a motion to amend the draft and then I'll I'll update that on the website and um and then and we won't put in the the nicotine also just for uh clarification purposes um we might as well take out the definition for um unless Meredith unless you think it's worthy to keep it in but um if we're not Banning oral nicotine pouches just so people don't get confused should we take out the definition of oral nicotine pouches I'm gonna let Lisa answer that one I don't know um if it matters either way did this get added because it's a different I would I would remove it there's no need need to have the definition okay you there's no related regulation okay thank you but may I also um add one more thing um and I did I don't I I reviewed your your regulation again before the meeting Tom and I don't think we caught this when we spoke a couple weeks ago um the violation section your local violations um to B and C also have the word May and not shall so if you're yeah you might want to consider changing those as well okay what page is that on Meredith that's also on page 10 SE just section two I so moved that we Chang the maze to shs in the areas that we discussed I'll second that all in favor Terry putam yes trsh biac yes Nebraska yes and and might I also add Tom I think you know sometimes when we say we may go forward at some point in time and and address this I would keep this as a as a parking lot or or as an agenda item because I think it I think it is important enough to keep to keep on the burner I don't think it's something that we just let lie okay I will add that into our next agenda well not for the hearing but for the one after that yeah so Tom you have the word you have the word document right and you're gonna yeah so I'll amend those and I will out oral nicotine I'll try to get that posted on the website updated tomorrow perfect thank you so um before we talk about the fee schedule um are we all done with are we all done with this the are we all done with the tobacco to move on so I want to thank Meredith well I I was just gonna say we jump ahead because while Meredith's here we'd had I just wanted to tell you guys about we had another sale okay since our last meeting so um so Jeff are you still on and um yes ma'am I'm still here there's all so I wanted to thank you too for for your helping us and thank you guys like I'll get that the documents to you and uh again always around for for questions if you guys want clarification and I'll I'll I'll log in next week as well just in case there's conversations that take place during the public hearing as well all right thank you awesome thank you guys you have a good night thank you you too okay ahead so U Meredith if if you guys want I'll jump ahead to we just had a um sale to a minor on November 23rd at the pride station um so I brought them there sep September what did I say November November wow I just hope that wasn't written no it wasn't it was it was uh September okay the ninth the ninth month of the year um so there was a sale um I brought them their violation notice I on the 1 um that I I personally hand delivered it to them um so they have a they have seven days to request a hearing they have not yet you deliver to the manager y I brought it to the manager and then I also scanned the copy the next day and emailed it to their um their main office that we had on file just to make sure they got it as well um so they have uh 21 days from the 1 so they have till the 22nd to pay the um pay the fine and if they don't request a hearing um I will just coordinate the timing of their their 3-day suspension with them um and now do we wait till they pay it and then coordinate the suspension or um I think just once once they once the seven days are up and we know they're not going to request a hearing then I'll I'll coordinate with them okay um and then that way that way too I can remind them you have so much time to pay it if you don't pay it that's you're going to have much larger problems um so uh I don't think there's much discussion for that but I just wanted to report that to you and you know what um what do we have if they don't pay it what do we have for I think we could call them in we could call them into a hearing and we could take take their license um I think that's an it would be an additional violation that they didn't pay so we could find them even more supension um so but um that's inspections yeah I think failure to co cooperate or interference with inspections yeah I think most most likely if they didn't pay we would call them in for a hearing and consider um pulling their pulling their license um but this so we we've gone I don't remember off the top of my head but it's been years since we've had a sale uh and we've had two in March in June and one in September so I don't know I don't know what's going on with all of our um all of our vendors um Meredith did we have um compliance checks in 2023 and in 2022 yep and we had no sales um you had sales let me see nope not in 23 nope no historically I'm I'm going all the way back to uh 2017 when I took over as the coordinator um no sales on record that I can find W yeah so so yeah I don't know what um on what's going on um I know uh Cliff Cliff Clark from the newspaper was asking me about the regulations and the and the sale um and he had he had seen on the previous agendas that we had other sales so I don't know if I don't know if he'll do a story and uh any of the stores that don't know that you first sale is a $1,000 fine in a three-day suspension maybe they'll they'll find out that way and start uh up in their game a little bit I'm I'm not sure but um but it is a little little bizarre to me that it they were were so good for so long and and then to have four in one year um but I guess hopefully they'll learn the hard way these ones okay so that we're just waiting on that y so no no vote on that but um but that's all that's the only other tobacco thing we have so so thank you Meredith and Lisa and if there is an appeal yeah um just let me know and I'll have the tobacco compliance officer if they're available attend the hearing if not we'll get uh written testimony from them and um I'll probably attend the hearing as well just to provide any guidance if you need it thank you yeah thank you Tom we're gonna see you next week yes okay all right good thank you thank you all right have a great night you too okay for the um B schedule the don't thing I had the question on was that under 25 remember it was about the refrigeration so Terry and Trish were looking at the fee schedule and the changes according to our uh last meeting but I did have a question on the food display under 25 square feet non-refrigerated food items I was listening to a recorded meeting um but I forgot I I didn't really know how to work that so I just put under 25 square feet but um not requiring Refrigeration they How about if soda is refrigerated nope that wouldn't that wouldn't apply like it's something something that needs to be refrigerated for food safety okay so how do we word that under 25 square feet um [Music] just do call it like uh small I mean it's in it would be in the food code that if it they have prepackaged food yes how do they Define it um do they have one term for it yeah I don't know I think under 25 Square F feet would be would be fine yeah 25 square feet requiring a yeah I mean it's like um I don't even know if anyone falls into that category right now um but like if the uh I don't know if any of the has well they just have soda I don't think they have a license because they just do sod some candy so they don't need a license but like um that you know say uh a liquor store you know they have one refrigerated case and maybe they have milk and so milk milk and eggs but they would they would need the so that but if if everything else in the store is either candy cigarettes chips or alcohol um they don't need they don't need a food license for any of that but if they had one small refrigerated case um so I guess we just leave it like that and then and then when the time comes you just yeah see what they have yeah so some people won't have to get a permit yeah all right and did we really want the Mobile Food unit to go up to 100 to double yes okay those are a lot of work okay what about the people that have multiple multiple multiple food units food units um I mean they are supposed to get a a [Music] um they are supposed to get a license for each one kind like I mean the only one I know of that has multiples um M malicious malicious actually um I think Bears barbecue although some of them don't have multiples but there's only one that they bring to Southwick um and uh the busher Block in Westfield they have multiple units um but like a lot of like with Joe um from ulicious he I think he has only one that he gets a annual permit for and the other ones he just does a um temporary a temporary CU he only he only does um the mobile on the the Motocross okay um so he'll get he'll get Temporaries he'll get like six Temporaries for the Motocross because he has like six different tents uh but then I think he only has one truck um that he actually gets the full mobile permit for all right um okay so so is we'll leave at 150 and the other one would just we just say under 25 square feet yeah I mean you could do a you could do a bulk could do a bulk discount of like uh 150 for the first one and if you have multiple units uh I mean the difficult part with the Mobile Food units isn't the inspection itself it's scheduling it coordinating them coming here uh Brian from the fire department comes so um you know you could say if if someone has multiple units uh and they were able to coordinate inspections on the same day you know 150 for the first one and uh 75 for the second or or just leave at 150 um it is it is a good amount those ones are a good amount of work to get them all scheduled and everything I'm okay with that this seasonal food permits can that that can be a mobile food unit too couldn't it and temporary yeah I think so the some of seasonal I think um I think mous the actual store the the brick and mortar I think that could be a seasonal because he's I don't I'd have to look I don't remember if he is or not um but there's not many other than that there's not most places are open year round um but then there's we had a seasonal um the ice cream North Side cream in Westfield they did the ice cream events at the car shows at The Daily Grind um they did like every Monday night for the summer they got a seasonal for that um so I think seasonal could be like a brick and mortar or it could be a m or it could be a mobile Trish or Terry you have anything you want to add or question so where are we seeing seasonal I'm sorry I'm not following that Top Line the top the very top line okay well but isn't Joe open for half of the year at least I have to look at his license I don't remember what his exact uh his exact schedule is yeah he actually might he might have a regular license not the seasonal one yeah no I think I think he's open except for maybe two or three months but I could be wrong because Jim likes a lot of ice cream so so he goes around there um and and the only other thing I need refreshing on is what's the difference between minor tobacco fins and major tobacco fines at the very bottom um so those would be um if you're missing a sign some signage oh okay so the major ones would be the violations to the state law the sale to the minor um and then the minor ones are the things that are just in our local regulation that are you know you don't have the sign up or something like that train your employee or okay yeah got it and um and the wellins will I think the we findes we can take out well no because they're in the regulation and we looked them up and they're actually in the regulation until until you rise the well yeah that's our next that's might be our next one um in your spear time yeah exactly so next week um Trish or Terry who will be able to come in person I'm in person next week oh good you zoom nope I'll be because I drive out to Worcester so I'm out in Worcester oh yeah so I actually stay here when I'm here on th okay yeah all right um and it should be pretty straightforward since we're not including the nicotine p es that's the controversial one yeah it's it's um that's what all the all the calls I got there was I think a few different phone calls and then the two letters and they were all specific to the um to the nicotine pouches so I hope hopefully it will go go Fairly smoothly since we we tabled that and the hearing is basically to let the public yeah Express their yeah it's not really a good question answer thing why it's okay yeah and it's possible I would think it might be possible that we get some questions if it's if it's out there about the nicotine pouches we may get some questions from that so that's why I appreciate getting some literature getting some some and information on that right um I have a couple clarifications for the B schedule okay for Disposal system we have the Disposal system construction permit and emergency repair mm um for I would prefer to call it the Disposal system construction permit and the Disposal system construction permit uh and then just say component replacement only instead of emergency repair disposal Disposal system construction component replacement yeah and then on the bathing beach permit um since we say no charge I'd like to say call it the town Town bathing Beach uh because if that I feel like at this at this point it's probably pretty unlikely that uh someone has enough beach front land that they'd like to open a public bathing Beach that's not their own private property for their own personal use um but if that did happen we would want to charge them for the that fee um but since it's the town we don't charge so I'll fix that um and I think that's all that's all I have all right so you're going to fix the I'll fix this and you're going to fix the draft yep all right okay can we move on I think so okay fog rigs those are on hold yep okay um sale to Miner you've talked about yep so now you report your sep yeah so septic um 77 Tannery Road was I'm trying to refresh my memory on that one yeah that was a repair hey what's um that land on chany road on the right when you're going into Southwick or into Westfield going into Westfield Westfield I don't know what that is I've never I think there were try to do perks there years ago I don't know what the status is of it used to be some kind of Health clever that's what I had heard yeah so you haven't done anything nothing recent nothing we did across the street a little diagonal there um is a lot that I did a witness the perk last year um and they were what's that side street there um there's a Salem there's a yeah it's the the the homeowner had a house on the side street but his land also had Frontage on Tannery okay so he did and is he's trying he's I think he's in planning now um and he's trying to cut off that lot and sell it as a building lot so but that's a that's the one you're talking about is on the other side of the street um and so approv some plans um all repairs those 3 51 North Lake 371 R North Lumis and 134 Feeding Hills Road 271 R what is that uh that was yeah it's a house yeah um was part of the old Kellogg estate that's the address yeah it's there's one in the front this is the rear y there's a front lot and a rear lot um but it's a few past the Kellogg's concrete and at one point I think all those houses were were Kellogg family I think that one is still owned by the Kelloggs um vinyl inspections 10 Field Street repair 17 Silver Grass was new construction 134 Feeding Hills 279 longard 24 Fred Jackson 23 those were all repairs 23 Noble Ste was new construction and two s Mountain Road was new construction um housing has been a a busy month it's picked up a little bit so um five four of them two of them I had already told you guys about they had started in June May maybe um but two two more complaints at the Southwick Villages forly the American Inn we have a copy in our folders of um yeah two of the letters I sent does Trish y they should they should have them y okay um so five South Village East that one I don't think I included anything that was pretty straightforward the uh tenant had complained about um her primary complaint was the AC wasn't working um and it happened to be that when I showed up to do the inspection the um the South Village was just waiting on parts and the uh repair company was there that day um so she had a couple questions about uh other things um but nothing nothing was Major she was happy um so I just documented it and sent the sent the letter to the um to South Village I sent a copy to her um so that was that was pretty straightforward and simple um 15 South Village that was an interesting one the um occupant had moved in um a few months earlier and it was a two bed there's I did a letter on that one um that I included to you guys there was a a odor in one of the bedrooms um it was a sweet smelling odor and the the the occupants um found it extremely offensive um I went there with the fire department he brought uh Brian from the fire department brought his gas detector um so there was no no gas leak no um coolant leak or anything they they had a HVAC company out um to make sure the AC system was not leaking who smelled it I I did smell it um I thought it was actually somewhat um Pleasant or at least neutral um it could have been the thing I they before these people moved in they had redone the floors throughout the whole apartment um so it was a mix of new carpets and new like vinyl um that like faux wood flooring that's really popular these days um so it could have been the glue or the laminate that would have been my thought but they redid the floors in the whole unit the same two different types of floors and it was you could only smell it in this one this one room um so I had advised the people they had it all sealed up Windows shut the door shut they had a towel at the bottom of the door so I said you know if you don't want to coming back into the rest of the place keep the towel but at least open your windows run the bath F get that whatever it is out of there um and there was there was nothing nothing I found that would have constituted a violation of any sort um so I I even reached out to dph um and I think I detailed that all in my letter but um they thought it was the AC thing yeah then they thought it was the AC thing so I I had suggested that and and southw Village um to give them credit they they actually contacted me before the tenants contacted me they said you know we've had this tenant complain we've tried this and that and and you know we don't don't know what it is um so they they contacted me and the next day the tenants came in to complain so um so I don't think it was lack of lack of action I think it you know it could have been a spilled um some sort of cleaning product or something like that so is the smell dissipated now I don't know I don't know so now I haven't heard back so I I told him you know I basically eliminated the possibility of water anything that would constitute a violation of the code um you know a water leak or something you know there was nothing else that it could have been that would have been a violation so um so I sent them their letter I haven't heard since I know um so that was 15 South Village yeah 15 South Village um and then 25 South Village and 32 Sawmill Park those were ones that had been ongoing um and then everything had been completed the one of them they the tenant was moving so they just waited till she was gone and um they had a a light fixture to replace um and the other one was a um was a moth infestation but uh it was not I don't think it was totally an infestation actually but they sent me their reports from the Exterminator and um even though I I didn't document it as a violation they they sealed up um there were some cracks along like the three season porch um so they had foamed that up wherever the cracks were um so they kind of went Above and Beyond on that one so saman I think included that in the last minutes too oh yeah yeah so those those four uh finally all done there's no open violations at um Southwick Villages they're completed yeah 8 Curtis Road um that's an interesting one um the former owner um had come in and said he wanted to to clean it up and it was in bad shape um there's still some people living there um and he he suggested that it should be condemned um so he it was foreclosed so as of last December he doesn't own it so is it the inside or the outside what's both both um it's not in good shape but I so I I looked it up um it was foreclosed last December um and I looked up the court records and the bank um which took ownership of it is uh they were I think they were granted the eviction but they haven't it hasn't been finalized yet so there are a few people living there um and the bank owns it the bank owns it and they are on the final stages of the eviction process okay um so they're just basically awaiting a date that um as far as I can tell from looking at the court records um awaiting a date that they will set and they will go with the sheriff's and kick anybody out that's still there and change the locks and then the bank will clean it up um they they won't probably won't fix it up to be livable but they'll you know clean it up and then probably auction it off is usually what they'll do so um so even though that former own I don't know why he would have wanted anything to do with it since he didn't own it anymore um I don't know if he thought maybe he'd be able to get it back or something but um he had wanted me to condemn it but I don't being that it's you know weeks away from being them being evicted um I don't think that's necessary um okay Aon Circle Aaron Circle this one we've talked about before um in the spring the laundry U I had went out there and it was hot um and then the occupant had called me again said it still uh wasn't hot so I um instead of going through her the occupant because the laundry is in the um Community Center um and I wanted to be able to access the mechanical room so I just contacted the property manager and set an appointment with them um I looked in the mechanical room uh we ran a load of the wash the water was was hot I tested the um with the infrared thermometer I tested the outside of the valve and that was the metal was 120 degrees so which the range is 110 to 130 um just for hot water there's nothing specific to laundry of what the temperature needs else no one else complained and the the way those bu each building there's I think five or six buildings there each building has its own mechanical system hot water system um and there are two huge taller than me uh I would guess each tank is at least 100 gallons um the hot water storage tanks and those tanks serve the whole not just the laundry machine they serve the whole building not that big um 100 gallons well there two of them that were there that were like this big around and taller than me so they might even be more than 100 I didn't I didn't measure them but um and so no one so it's in addition to serving this laundry then this the sink in the community area there's at least four or five other apartments that are served by that same water heater no one has complained that they don't have hot water so um the the tenant says that it's not hot the whole cycle I think that is modern washing machines are energy efficient so if you do hot cycle it's not pure hot water um but as far as I could tell the you know the way the codes written it needs to be connected hot water it needs to be working and it it was um so that wasn't a violation really and it was the right temperature so um so I did document that I also I didn't include the I just sent the the the letter but I also have the inspection report if you wanted to look at it I could send it to any of you um she did call she was unhappy um and I you know I I told I was in the process of telling her that you know that you can complain to the state you can complain to my board um and she hung up on me before I was able to to finish telling her where to complain so did she measure with a thermometer I don't think so okay I don't think so so um so so yeah so for whatever that's worth I based on everything I can tell I don't see how that could possibly be a violation um um and we'll see if I hear from her again but okay ad Bungalow Bungalow so there's good they haven't made much progress on the outside um but I have talked to Highland Valley um and they have they have made a lot of progress with um indoors indoors with the finance her finances and everything they have her hooked up with a new um a new agency I guess uh out of Springfield that you know when people are at risk of you know losing their homes to foreclosure um it's called No One leaves um and they help people out with you know finances getting things fixed and and and that sort of thing so I I talked to um talked to someone from that agency yesterday um and they they have um you know she has her finances in order and because she had been scammed so that was kind of what got her down this road was not getting her so Social Security payments um so that's kind of back back in order so she has she has she's going to have heat yeah and she has water yep she has water um and that so that should all be and and Highland Valley is still involved um so that I would have liked to see more like on the ground progress but I'm I'm there's kind of behind the scenes stuff going on and I'm hopeful that uh it will be so the only violations really now are on the outside that and then there's still some of the water damage in the in the basement so is a mold gone no no so it's in the B it's not her living area it's in the basement but that that's something they'll be able to help her with as well okay so um so that one I would it's we're going on a year now that this one's been dragging on so I mean there's been progress but um but we will we'll see how that turn they should have some stuff done by by next month so um if not then maybe we can call her in for a gearing or something uh and six Summer Street the that was the um one of the three that got shut off for for water bills and um that was that was the only one that was actually occupied that's one I tampered yes y so they had they had turned it back on um and the water department shut shut it back off and put a big cement block over it but they did pay uh what they owed and the water department turned the water back on so there were two others um that were kind of um not not they were kind of in the process of being rehabed um and though I talked to both those owners and they said yeah you know we're you know trying to fix the place up and before obviously we're going to pay the water bill before anyone moves in so Jerry do you have to leave I was just getting ready to say yeah I need to leave I have to pop out for another so sorry I don't get to hear the rest of the report but if you'll fill me in if I if I miss anything Earth shattering okay okay have to vote on anything yeah I don't think we do we're we I'm pretty close to done inspections all right so we'll see you next week the hearing okay thank you all right thank you bye bye see you food um I did uh Tuckers and the three School inspections um all four were really good no no issues um Hamed County Health Coalition we had a meeting today um still kind of settling into our we're not with pvpc anymore um we're with the Burke the Franklin Regional Council of governments is our our group um that's our our uh fiduciary agent or whatever whatever you call them um so that's going pretty well um they just do the meetings on Zoom so I don't have to drive to Springfield anymore good um and western Mass Public Health Association they I'm the president now um which is fine and didn't really want to but um but it's not bad it's there that's a good group um so we're planning our annual Title 5 conference at the end of the month on the 29th um that's kind of our big our big thing for the year that we do um and relevant systems so that is the inspection software um I had another training for that the beginning of September um and I've been using it more with the those housing inspections and the food inspections and it's going well any of the other towns you yet I think I know Grand Granville is um Granville and Russell and um I haven't needed it in Montgomery yet um I think blanford's still having a hard time getting it um getting it going but other than that I think everyone's everyone's at least got it set up um and then full circle Technologies is our e permitting I met with them last week and they should have a beta version in the next um I think they said by around uh October 10th um so I'll have that to test out internally and make sure we like how it works and then they said as long as long as we don't have any major issues um we could get that live by the end of October um which is just in time to send out our renewals um and they're going to help they're going to help me draft the letter um that we would send out with the directions for everyone and how to do we're going to give them the option of using the e- permitting or yeah paper yeah I think we can do that so um so one thing um oh we I guess we could talk about it at our I should have included that when we were talking about the um I just remembered it now um with the fee schedule uh um one thing that they said you you can do a lot of towns do a discount um for doing if you do the E permitting so like this is our this is our fee um but if you do it on the e- permitting it's you know $5 that's how building building does a search charge so um if you do a paper permit it's $5 extra um and they're talk and this is just the op they're talking about a discount yeah so they they said that's that's a better way to uh Market it I think is the term they used um so that's that's something we could talk about at the hearing next week too um and put in the fee schedule so but other than that um that should be pretty pretty straightforward I I think uh I'm excited to get the the beta version start testing it out and making sure beta version as opposed to yeah so I think the alpha the Alpha version is their first version that they just keep in house and then the beta they like send it out to me and I so it looks like the real site but it's only it's not live it's only internal so I can I can mess around with it um or Samantha could mess around with it and we could see see what how we would see the screen how um someone doing an application would see the screen and then we have some time to test it and um if there's problems we can make recommendations and they can change things before before we send it out to kind of work out all the all the bugs um so so that um I'm hopeful that goes according to schedule and um and then we don't have any major issues with so who will have to be you'll have to be trained on it with Samantha yeah Karen Karen Karen already uses a different it's they're so they're doing ours first and then they're going to update building so building is using a a previous version of the same software um so they'll they'll update our we'll get it of the new version and then they're going to work on building and updating theirs so do we still send out the application renewals forms we still send all those out right um I don't think so think we would need to because if we could say because we we do want to encourage people to do it online remember they have to do it now by December 1st right right and we can be we can be flexible on that we don't have to so how the people going to know you're GNA email them and remind them to yeah so I I can actually do we don't have all their email addresses so do we and with owner changing yeah I can uh we can work on a letter now and send it out next week stal mail to all of our licenses and just say you know FYI this is what's and especially for the food people we can we can tell them we we got rid of the food regulation um so there's not a late fee but we do expect that have they removed it completely it's still on the website but but the board I'm just wondering if we should unfortunately I I should have suggested maybe just keep it one more year and see how yeah yeah really I don't know how much recourse you're going to have if they don't pay you can't just go and close them down you you can try to close them down but you don't necessarily think you have to go to the um get a court order well that's and the police aren't going to back you up unless you do have an order right well yeah I would issue a c syn assis and then if they refuse then you got to abide by the C syn assist is that going to take we could either go to court or and it's not Housing Court either or we could call a hearing and we could say not only are we shutting you down for applying late now we're just going to take your permit and you're never going to have a license to operate and then you're shut down forever so I think that I think that that if they know that's what the consequences are in the code I think as long as we hold by the code um and don't let people do whatever they want then then they they'll follow follow the rules you know but are they going to do that if they don't have the certifications like before we had the right we had the fines if we if if they PID for their permit but they didn't hand in their certifications we had a fine schedule so how are we going to you're going to close them down if you don't get their certifications yeah okay yeah because we would that would be if they don't include their certifications that would be an incomplete incomplete application and send us your certifications um but I I think the because the reg's the the board voted the last month and the reg is gone so yeah no I know so so yeah but I I I can send a letter to everyone um at least all the food establishments and just say you know we are moving to an e- permiting system you should receive more information within the coming weeks we also yeah we've also strictly following the state removed the um removed the local regulation regarding food establishments so there will be no more late fee for not renewing your license um however um you know we're gonna follow Cod closures right um applications applications are due by the state code on December 1st um and if your license hasn't been granted by January 1st we expect that you will not open your doors until you have your license in hand um and then we can also say and include the certifications yeah yeah and we can also say something along the lines of you know this year because everyone's new to the e- permitting if you're struggling with it and you can't get your license your application in on December 1st if you don't get it until December you know 15th we're not going to penalize you um as long as it's done as long as you have your license before um before January 1 so um but I think that's you know it's a big change so I think it's reasonable to Grant some some leeway this year absolutely um but but I think that um I had talked to West Springfield and they're even more strict because they if someone does their application on uh say December 15th they would make them wait the 30 days before they give them their license so they wouldn't be able they'd have to from from the time their license expires on the 31st they wouldn't be able to be open until the 15 or the 14th of uh or I guess the 15th of January is just for people and that's that's what was I'm not saying we should do that but that's GNA be hard yeah that would be hard to keep this is and for like malicious they don't open till the spring so so that as long 30 days before they before they open y um but so I'm not saying we should be as strict as West Springfield but what the director there told me is um you know they give people ample they send out ample notices and reminders um so we'll we'll send out a letter next week and just give people the heads up once we go live we'll have more information from Full Circle Technologies regarding how to sign up and everything they're supposed to do we'll send out another letter then can I read the letter too that you sent out first y so so we'll we'll give people you know every every chance to to do it and you know we can we have the computer in the office we can help them out um if they're having a hard time with the computer um so hopefully it will hopefully it will go well unanticipated anything no I don't think so so our public hearing is the 10th Terry will be there in person Trish you're going to zoom in um our next meeting is November 7th Trish you need to get some rest you do yes yeah you're sounding worse as the night goes on Erica you have anything you want to say um not related to the meeting though okay I do have a question all right so okay I'll make the motion to adjourn the meeting at 8:40 p.m. 7:40 oh 7:40 p.m. excuse me 7:40 p.m. want to Second it I'll second the motion all in favor Trish Linc subasa yes