we're recording and dick you want to call the meeting to order at 7 the meeting will come to order at 7 pm and the meeting is being recorded if there's anybody else who is recording this they need to Notify myself as chair seeing none hearing none I only see Mike and US yeah yeah and can you hear me Eric yes yeah okay good K is supposed to be joining us okay as is only welcome back from Flor oh actually that's interesting that clock says 659 that's what mine says 92 659 says seven yeah all right yeah you're you're I'm sure it's 659 the computer's wrong but that's okay that's okay let's go right okay and so meeting as I said meeting's being recorded if anybody else is recording the meeting you must notified the chair which is myself and a roll call let's see what we got uh Norm chever here Mike kums here good uh Malcolm debay here Mike debay here dick Ran's here Scotty Graves here Deb harth here Eric Muller here Paul Murphy here Rick wot here okay we got almost a completely full house that we're missing Ken but I think Ken was planning on coming he was planning on coming so and the only one that's remote is Mike Mike Mike C okay so next thing is the minutes from the May 9th meeting if everybody wants to hopefully you've already read and if anybody has any comments questions changes what's Corrections hey R I'll thought first I I I no comments at all except except the way they written okay no other comments from anybody no okay so we have a motion by Mike D Miss no Mike de made a motion I'll second it Malcolm D and all in favor oppose abstain okay I got do roll call Norm Cher hi Mike kums hi Malcolm debay hi Mike debay hi Dick Gran's I Scotty Graves hi Deb harth hi Eric meller hi Paul Murphy hi and Rick you're not voting okay and affirmed okay next we have concom update North yeah have several items uh from our last meeting 16 Berkshire Avenue am I taking notes yeah there was an RDA to replace a retaining wall RDA no that was last week R sorry yeah question request for determination okay it's like an ani except it's less complex okay so like a right so like a baby notice of intent last time thank you they had a tree fell on the property by a fall damaged the retaining wall and was leaning towards the lake it was a safety problem so we approved that uh uh you have in your in your uh deck that dick gave was the lpp uh requested changes from the select board and the Conservation Commission would like input from LMC on any and that's an item on tonight any other changes they walk us then we move to the dock placement on 10 Grand View Street which is really on White Street but and the uh the owner of the property was there and he did we had we had a site visit before and we said we want to swing the dock to the South by six feet on the Outer Edge and he agreed to do that he's currently got four boats on there and he said they rent us so that's one thing that when we get to that discussion about lpp we discuss we'll discuss right that looks like the maximum we could put on there right four from what I proceed I didn't look at it yeah it actually it actually doubled in in length from when from the original do yeah but it's still under the 75 75 but they rentals but there was no PO there's no paperwork files we're going to cover that though under own sub yeah that's coming up yeah and you know there still is verbiage in there about being limited to the minimum to accomplish a doc we'll talk about that when we get to that one it has hisen dock there before it had a measurement all right we're going to get to that as a specific item on the agenda so then I uh gave a report on the first two uh Suffield concom meetings and I gave you an update on the first one last time on the second one there was an item on the agenda you remember on Turtle Cove and South Pond we had an illegal doc didn't know who owned it yep uh it was on crust View Property Crest View sold the property the new owner wants to combine three lots wants to uh cut down a whole bunch of trees and this was just just a preliminary hearing so there was no votes or anything but so this would be the Connecticut concom Suffield concom yes Suffield yeah he's cut a lot of it's clear cut it a lot has he oh yeah already oh yeah that wood Chipper's been going all week approval to do it yet he's got a lot clear huh that's Connecticut isn't it yeah but this is a report from Connecticut con seld oh oh oh oh I'm sorry I will I will let that that that they started on Monday all week really oh yeah I've heard that wood chiper for three days over there all right wow so it's working guys it's working all right so I will notify the subfield concom tomorrow uh then uh we had an issue last time we talked about the The Drury Dock and the Four Season South Pond Association Dock and we thought we had a nice uh agreement to satisfy everybody's needs Four Seasons BR Association wasn't happy so they went to the select board select board wants to meet onsite it's our select board our R select oh okay well I thought it was all well it was but then then then the association said we we now just we don't like it yeah okay well and the whole problem is there's no accurate current survey that anybody has nobody knows and there's there's words that the the uh Connecticut Mass marker big Granite marker was mov moved right and the other part of the problem is is that the there's a pipe uh black storm water pipe that was installed and maybe somebody remembers what was there I can vaguely picture that there was a like a Swale that came down there and now there's a probably a 12inch pipe coming down I know the marker this the state marker was huge oh yeah it's hug yeah it's it'sa s neighbor did they move it a neighbor says it was moved when they put the pipe in or before that all right so somebody's going to have to go with a Transit and and that's not our true or not right nobody from kcom wanted to have the meeting yeah yeah but I would go yeah so so it's not our problem to determine the line right I would think that would fall right to the states lafield can push that back to the state we can't you know been a crazy corner there if if aot had a in Massachusetts he lives but he's got a Connecticut phone yeah if he had a kid they go to a s your school system yeah all kinds of crazy little because you can't because you can't get without crossing water okay and the last item a few weeks ago I presented the chapter 91 update well Jarry Patria contacted this contacted the state to see about his that was that's due this year yeah okay and he got a letter back and uh because he was and I'll read this this this short paragraph because the approval of his DOT was valid During the period between August 15 2008 and August 15 [Music] 2012 it is automatically extended four years beyond the expiration date pursuant to the permit extension act section 173 and furthermore it was extended another 462 days pursuant to the tolling provisions of covid-19 so where does that take it to well down like his is November 15 2029 but now means I got to go back and redate other others now have another four and a half five and a half years on them unless they ran out prior to you know so right right now you got to look and see where they end those years and oh this is fun well I find it very disappointing because the The Authority is supposed to be the hamon County registry of deeds yes and this is not in there so if it's not in so if it's not in there I wonder how the hell it can in other words right somebody just St appr it right okay all right so I'll be updating that oh man what a mess because I'm not I have a a question for you on that afterwards nothing to do with this meeting because somebody else on your list there HS from down towards you two houses up apparently they had one yeah and I know the son that got the place when his father dies and he's like I didn't even know I had this do I do I said I don't know but I some of them can pass down some of them are it depends on how it was written he got a year or something to notify a state something like that but he it might have been extended yeah by the same rule for him that's my report on C Dandy yes make work project okay the um do you have any update on the master plan only thing is the slug boort has not yet approved the addition of that committee so there's been no action no so no update h wow all right and CRC update is Michelle on or you g she's not on and I didn't attend the last meeting but Eric was there yeah not for the whole thing okay so was you know I gave a uh I gave a presentation on the water quality and water level um had a couple of good questions that was very good uh while I was there um there was a presentation brief presentation given by the gentleman who wrote the uh this from the Historical Society who wrote this book on the um on the canal and the and the oh and the rail tril Carl Walter Walter yeah yeah he's he's really smart so that was so that you know that was very good and you know sort of normal normal CRC stuff I didn't I didn't stay through the whole meeting so I don't know what happened at yeah the only thing I heard is that they solicited if anybody would like to donate to this monument that they're going to do right right and um we're not sure it relates enough to the lake to donate to it or not right right all right d what was that guy's name Carl Walter Walter w l t r and he wrote a book on the canal you remember my best actually the books available in soft copy I think it's about $20 and hard copy no not through Amazon anymore hisorical Society are straight from the printer okay cool yeah if you find that one let me know because what I have may be different the monument that they're going to put up um part of the idea there is just so that people who go on the rail trail learn that yeah there was a canal yeah you know people just have no idea no there was a canal you know Ed all the way up thereon to New Haven you know to New Haven and then basically to the ocean you know as a path to get to the ocean it's uh just a lot of people just don't know that ever existed you know you look at this stream next to the you know next to the ra and it's like oh you know it's like this deep it's like yeah that used to be 9 feet deep and 15 wide wide yeah and that's what nrcs it's trying no when they finally get the goahead what they've got now is a compan the next level of engineering which is boots on the ground type engineering okay and they're also looking for construction money at the same time uh and that will know probably in the fall time frame how how they are how they're doing I'm staying in touch I mean it'll take a long time but but if they do it you and you and with this you kind of need the because it goes between the states yeah and and between towns they're talking about doing the restoration and if they do that restoration you know then all of a sudden we really can manage lake level you know we we could deal with storms and make sure we don't have especially that Canal you know you know if they restore it all the way I mean we'd be able to you know proactively drop lake level when a huge storm is coming we could you know all that stuff would then be make room for it you know would then be accessible and we would be able to prevent these problems okay so uh 10 Grand View Terrace which is Pages 6 through 24 in your I've been reading those emails yeah and what's interesting and this this supports what you said uh before is Pages six and S I found that that's an email that came from Brian Harrington Who was the the uh dep let's see he was the legal beagle for masty EP western region and also the deputy director he's since retired and in fact I think everybody that's on here has retired uh and but any as you can read it what it says and the same is applicable for the local pering program is you have to have in your hands either a chapter 91 license recorded or a local permitting program that's been uh permit that has been duly processed with all the all the papers before you put the dock in not after right so obviously in this particular case he upgraded the dock without that right so that's what's that's what's wrong about that is that you can't just say I'm going to double the length of it and then come back and say oh by the way I doubled the length of it waiting for the paper yeah or I'm waiting for the paperwork is in the mail yeah I love that yeah yeah and this that was a this piece of paper is a good one to have you know so and Sabrina sent a letter to him about you can read it and we had the meeting on site as as Norm was describing and you can see it in page nine you can see the DOT so the wooden part that's that you're looking at is actually not counted for length because it's on the shore right uh but on the end the point was to to swing that over to the right right some six feet other words rotate the end six feet and but that was not addressing the the boats that are mored on there that are rentals that's just addressing the dock and then we also got into the discussion again uh about the length of the dock being doubled without any any permits and he said well I already bought it but that's not an excuse that's absolutely not an excuse that's too bad uh so right so he he needed he needed to put that in his l l p application the lpp application needed to include the drawing he had an lpp before he needed to do a new LP but he had never provided he had never provided the the drawings in the past right right and I I suspect that it would get approved on his land oh yeah because you're saying you have to swing it is that because of extensions yeah it swings over because what's happening is you know swung toward the neighbor's land and then if you put a boat there then the neighbor's land is really uded you're you're into the the neighbors uh property line property line extended exion right think think of it this way the survey says one thing but he followed the shore which has a circle to it so he kind of ped it to the left he's over he's over the EXP think but my understanding is that he said fine he'll move it not yeah but then he then I guess saying no I don't want to move it oh that's what I heard you agreed well said he would move was but he wasn't at the meeting when we were there yes he was no that was that was Rick right he was at the conservation meeting last monay so did he say he'd move it at the con yes he did say so there you go we're fine so hopefully he does people gonna Park their cars well that's another part of this and we'll that's we gotta get into that and concom correctly said look that's not our that's not our bwick except that he's parking them on the beach right that's all you could assume which oh he is yeah AB so then it will become conom and I hear the Harbor Master or police chief may put no parking sign yeah that hearing is is I believe this coming Monday yeah um which is on the select board agenda to go over that no parking the entire length of and and whole Corner's always been a night ter terrible so dangerous yeah very tight I have a question on that subject since we're talking about it now SE he's trying to use lpp section 1.5 of the lpp says non-commercial use yeah so Charing money that's commercial so we so we have a kink in our plumbing because I agree with you but some someone has asked someone has asked State someone at the state and someone at the state has come back and said that their interpretation of that is that that level of operation is not what's meant by commercial that meaning 10 vots or more no no no she didn't say 10 boats or more but it was because 10 boats or more is a marina that that's a whole other thing but basically that that their belief or whatever part of the agency's belief is that that terminology is referring to a you know like a real going business like renting boats or that sort of thing and that that level of didn't apply they didn't say commercial but that level didn't apply right I I don't know whether they're correct orong but and the and the uh but they that's what they've said planner is with that there a lake remember not ours right so well and you know and look we we've had problems in the past you know if you recall what happened at North Pond a few years ago where someone from the state errant said oh yeah you can run jet skis in North Pond yeah and they were wrong right but they said it and then it became a nightmare for everybody to try and and untangle that to straight to straighten it out so so the the person who gave us this response may be right or may be wrong I don't know but we now have that response to deal with so concom can't just go well look you're taking money that's commercial I think that's correct but now there's somebody from the state who's saying no that's not what's that's not what we mean by opinion on it and she would say that's a whole different animal it's a state issue not town no but it's actually it's also a town issue because that's why the planner is looking at it because it may violate our R20 well residential uh right what do you call bylaws zoning zoning bylaws we should actually identify that person that is it's John Goddard no no one from the state we we we know who it is from the state and she's usually pretty careful though my guess is that she didn't just say that my guess is she asks somebody my my experience with her has been that she's usually pretty careful it doesn't mean I agree with everything she says but she's usually pretty careful did I'm I didn't I'm guessing that she asked somebody and didn't just well I also also the Harbor Master is getting a legal opinion from Our Town Council uh which is is good because again it's how do you treat the word commercial right is the key right because For Me commercial is involving Commerce and commerce is the exchange money the exchange of of money for goods or services is Commerce so that seems to me that this is Commerce but that's just my opinion it's exactly so to your question concom actually made the request to have the town attorney yeah give that up okay oh good that's good yeah so that is option one and option two if that one comes back and if the down attorney says the state's right then we'll changing the lpp to say that rental space on docks is illegal we put right approve that take a while would the bylaws be the same for Connecticut so if you're on yeah it's LP yeah so the town ordinance would be the same if you were in Connecticut or because it's because are in Mass Water now there was a guy right across from Rick at that yellow house on the peninsula he went four slips over there every year he been doing it forever I know $2,000 a slip and he's still doing it I guarantee you he was doing it over on on be Road he puts them in the um Yankee flyer for slips for rent so so look we need to get it straightened out clearly we've got we have some differences opinion some confusion the concom has asked the town's attorney maybe that'll straighten the issue out maybe it won't and that's why I happen to say the Harbor Master because he's actually acting CEO and that's that's why it has to go through him yeah and I asked him at the meeting specifically are you going to are you going to send us off to the town attorney and say yes good good one one more twist the association that what do you do with all the association docks because they pay dues to be able to put a boat on that dock so it's another way of generating Revenue monies are changing hands yeah it's a fair question but I think that's commercial because it's not they're not renting the space and they're not they're nonprofit right those are all nonprofit not profit I know they're trying to make a profit um for don't worry they're good at losing money it's not a problem um for our little beach Association they have a boat group and you pay the Boat Group Boat Group yeah right but that may not that may not be considered rental right yeah I don't know that's that's a in any case we're we we're this committee is not involved no nothing else we can hire hey this is this is Mike kums can I ask a normal question are those four boats uh got stickers because they can't be in the water without a sticker he he admitted that only one boat had a sticker but he would be make make the others legal is what he said at that at and we got to make sure that before those stickers go out that that they get the rule ruling from our Council the Jean does not give those stickers how about the guy cross from Rick does he have stickers no he probably doesn't even have registered the do no that's the con but that's our Connecticut issue with lpp that's right that's that's Suffield so that goes through that guy's been doing it for years guys yeah so let's move on right it's not us okay's got it next page all right next one is hydrilla um and so it's kind of the bad news and the good news bad news is we have hydrilla so Pages 25 and 26 tell you a story about from whence it cometh yeah and it started really in Florida from what this says and it came from from China and uh what was the other one two places uh Indian Korea India and Korea native to India and Korea yeah and so it was introduced here because people got it for fish tanks then dumped the contents in the water like other things in Florida and it doesn't have any natural enemies so it found its way all over the place and it's all over the country it's not just it's not just picking up the Connecticut River which turns out to be good for us because since it is all over the place we don't have to pay for fixing it yeah and the the other thing that I had mistakenly put in um somewhere along the way I said USA it's us fisheries and wildlife is actually the one that has the money and is Doling it out and it went to DCR a big grant for DCR to cover Connecticut River and some of the other water bodies and we were the recipients of $250,000 worth of of uh grant money and we've got all that paperwork you can read it at your leisure there's there's about 25 Pages or so in here andless it's pretty neat because what they do uh Solitude is the one that will they're already under contract with us for three years do treatment it's the same die quat slash reward that's used for uh the other two invasives the Muran Watermill foil and the curly Leaf pondweed but they're skewed in when they occur right so you have to have two sets of viewings and you know assessments and mappings and then you have two sets of treatments because you can't do it simultaneously because they don't it's the wrong time to treat it so what they did um Solitude has mapped the eras water m and which I I emailed everybody those Maps uh on conoman very little you'll see it's we're down to very very those are not the treatment Maps that's the locations so treatment's always bigger than the the same location patient we've always had though yeah yep trouble trouble areas they're moncky gooey Corners you know where the stuff settles so any rate um we are the first year it's like 26,000 something like that 265 that's going to Solitude and 64 65,000 going to Stant stant's the one that's doing this um DNA mapping which they have developed a a means of actually detecting let's say there's plant over where Deb is and I back up and I go back 100 feet or 200 feet that process that they have can detect that over there over there there's uh what it call it uh hydrilla and then the mapping that what it call it does that Solitude does will pinpoint the actual location of the of the uh plants that are growing under the water so it's a combination of the two and they are working very closely together and fortunately stantech we just had to piggyback on on their contract with the Commonwealth because they're already they did the high high level procurement that Commonwealth did and Stant Stant is one of the ones that made it through the gauntlets and uh so we're just sign on with them and and do it so it's we're very lucky because we had put in for an additional like 12,000 I think it was 125 or 12,000 which would have been a drop in the bucket for what they're going to do right and even would have been a drop in the bucket Just For What Solitude was going to do right yeah right because we were just we were going to have Solitude basically look for it find it and treat but what these guys are doing is is much more comprehensive what I read in there it sounded to me like they had to do the check first before we do our treatment yes and that's how that's how it's time means they've already done their first check yes they did okay yeah and both have done them both St Tech and Solitude have finished definitely got to come back a second one after the first treatment for the mil FL because what happens and the reason it had to be skewed like that is if you treat first treat the raan water mil foil and the uh curly leaf pondweed and there's some uh hydrilla present where you are treating it starts to break down and then it sends out like spores all over the place and now you don't know where it is in the lake so that's why stantech wanted to do the more accurate measurements before any treatment was done and so it's been great coordination I I probably have 50 emails between St tech and and uh Solitude and myself and you know keeping everybody a breast of what what's going on but like I said we are really really fortunate uh that this is happening on a on a grant yeah a big Grant so and the select board approved the grant um applying for they approved the contract uh we have a final contract coming from stantech which will Pro we'll probably get Monday and then that'll be the one that's the the dollars um against the the grant that's allowing us to spend dollars against the grant so all good yeah very very good good information and very lucky um the SP any other questions on hydrilla all right the SPD Boat House some more good news if you go to Pages 57 through 66 you don't have to read them but I'll give you re digest version and so the 61 to 64 shows where it's going to go there's some sketches in there and you can actually see the the building and do you know where the green double door is in the metal double doors at the North ramp that's where it's going right that's coming out the the pump that's in there will go in the new building okay and we've already got power we've got camera feeds to their uh we got everything that they need and and also alarm we can link them make them another uh section of our alarm system so that it the alarmed it'll have cameras it'll have lights everything that they need so and that's all approved by the state which it had to be before anybody can do any construction and PD is looking for grant money to construct it so it's not GNA be Town taxpayer money that probably won't happen this year D um probably won't happen this year I don't think they'll they they have to get the grant money and then I think it would be spring literally you know before they could do it they did get their new boat by the way and the building is designed to accommodate the new boat which is much bigger than the old one what's the cost on the building any had my cut says that we're they're probably looking at maybe 25 30k something like that I think they're gonna have to do an noi oh yeah absolutely yes absolutely yeah but the thing that we plan on doing is instead of any kind of uh dredging operation or anything we've got some remember how the the north ramp used to have slabs of concrete before we went to the when they completely redid it did the chasten Place ported Place well we've got several of those and those can be laid right on the bottom of the uh the sand as as a ramp and and the way this thing works is that there'll be a an electric winch inside the building there'll be like a sled that's on Wheels and and a track and so the boat comes up and sits on in the water sits on a bed on beds just like you have on a trailer like a trailer Y and then it gets pulled into the building and then when you want to go back out because it's going to be on a on a slope coming into the building and then once you once you're in the building shut the garage door that's on it and it's secure and there's a man door so you can come in from the side uh there's an area it's all going to be fenced in besides and we'll be able to store our buoys in the fenced in area we won't have to move the buoys anymore so and yeah yeah but that that will be and there'll be a small the plan is to have a dock for them so when they pull in to take it into the uh building they have a place to pull up and then you get off you snap the hook on the on the boat and pull it in and it'll be available 247 that's what's really nice they don't have to trailer a boat anymore it's one excuse sounds like the 25 will be 50 it's really not too bad because it's only it's concrete and a and a wood frame are we actually getting our officers Lake this year they're supposed to I've seen the sheriff's out there yeah they've been out this year already weekend yep and they've been out weekdays too good the presence the presence you that's good yeah um so then 67 and 68 and so on uh that's the this request to change the local pering program and I think what as you you can look at it I'll tell I'll show which ones or maybe Norm even wants to talk about it but if you go to page 69 and 70 and correct me if I'm wrong Norm but the areas that I understand that are being changed are because they're bolded are uh 1.5d that's correct and 1.5 and D12 and three correct and I think that's the only sets of changes correct well there was some minor changes uh on page 70 under 2.1 2.1 okay oh I see it yeah it's highlighted there yeah okay very minor changes yes okay and now now there should be something in here about commercial right uh 1.5 1.5 activ non-commercial yeah okay that's bold too and [Music] then is this I'm looking in 4.13 is that also an update 4.13 4113 4.13 24 Max um the deck shall be no that that is not an upti oh okay oh that's just because it was folded before folded before got it 1.5 I don't see the 1.5 guys well the 1.5 D the entire section that that yeah all right did you say something about 1.4 too or no no CH no right hey no Mike kum's a question where is the property that this uh that it states that concom approv some something about this where did this happen that this came up right on the first sentence you it says concom approved and we need to address this the first sentence on the concom from the select board I don't have it in front of me unfortunately oh okay um the recent application and favorable Conservation Commission decision under Mr Pratt yeah where did that happen that happened at the jewry property okay 5:30 Griffin Road and whatfield rightfield okay and there was some and there was something there that they could move yeah the issue is is um a disability yeah and access to the water okay what's what's what's the disability portion the person or the access to the water the person with access to the water no if if we had forced her to move her dock to the North she can't get to it she a she can't get to it okay and also she would have to go to a floating dock because it's the water's too deep right and Flo the floating dock would be too difficult for her to maneuver too Tipsy you know okay I know about tipsy so that's why this is um okay to address a different disability you know right okay my question is as we go further down the road because you always read more into it I guess this will not be able to be used for the removal of docks and say oh I'm disabled I can't pull my docks anymore we're not going that way with this right no no all right no no exclusive this is placement right right this is langu right this is language about the configuration and placement of the dock not language about the removal We There is a process for saying my do my dock isn't removable there's a hardship there's a hardship process for that um but that hardship process because we've been through that before is not the physical hardship of the owner it's the locational hardship that you you know there there are places where it's just completely impractical to remove a dock right right yeah we've addressed that before I agree right yes right true and it's under it's under that section of it but when you read through what they wrote in here it talks about physical disabilities and everything else right would include them at that point wouldn't it that's my question on the wording I I don't think so because because then at that point that that's a completely different thing in other words there's there's a construction thing of yeah I need to be able to construct the dock so that I'm disabled and I'm able to access it but to say well I'm disabled so stay in so so the dock has to stay in you know would be I'm disabled so I don't have to shovel my P that's why I'm asking the question because when I read through this that's how it sounded like it was being written to me gonna open up I think that b maybe we should clarify that in there then yeah obviously we don't want to discriminate against disabilities or anything like that it should apply to the whole progr not I think what we could do is right in here is point to and say it does not obviate uh let's see right the requirement for right right that that does not obviate the the requirement for seasonal removal right which is which is paragraph these are that's on the six isn't it 62 yeah six somewhere 62 yeah six 6.2 6.2 yeah so it does not obviate any of the requirements of 6.2 to right so we should add that y thank you excellent okay good good find or negate maybe we maybe that' be a better word negate right right does not negate the requirements of 6.2 requirements okay 6.2 that's a good one good good catch or we be back again so if there's anything else that you want to add to the whole lpp yeah this is the time to do it Now's the Time to do it do we want to clarify right now about commercial well but but I think I think ton com's already taken up that right so I don't think we have to step into it right I don't think it's un something here it's not our position I think to to right right I mean we if somebody asked would we say yes we'd like to see that in there but I think at the moment we don't need to speak concom is run do their job well it wouldn't hurt if LMC said for yeah we can we can make a recommendation right okay all right I'm fine with have it because it's a lake safety issue right right okay so so I don't I don't right right I I don't have a problem with us saying you know our recommendation because we can't we don't have the author our recommendation is that the word commercial should be interpreted to include the rental of dots yeah you know kind stuff lot more than you would realize I'm sure oh yeah but that doesn't make it right so is that a motion that's what we need is a motion we need a motion what he just said is and I second it second is going to be Malcolm exactly what he said and vote vot's gonna be let me go down I gotta read them now approve it all right all in favor opposed abstain all right now let me read the where my paper cheat sheet go here we go uh Norm Cher hi Mike kums hi Malcolm debay hi Mike debay hi Dick Ran's I Scotty Graves hi Deb harth hi Eric meller hi Paul Murphy hi all right unanimous affirmed pa okay hey Dick hey Dick I still have a comment on the lpp on what the Selectmen were talking about on people that have docks closer than 25 feet and have agreed with their neighbors that they both have put them on that side of their property so they have more Beach and I did that 22 years ago under Chief Ricardo and at that time if your neighbor agreed to it you could be within the 25 ft that is something they stated so can you be grandfathered for that or supposed to be it's supposed to be in a in a um what it call variance that is approved by Lake management concom and the Harbor Master so the so the one question that didn't exist 22 years ago right so that so so first I agree let me just back up one step so my understanding of this see if everybody reads it the way I read it is the the 2.1 one the 25 ft no dock shall be closer than 25 ft from the extended property line except where there is less than 60 feet of accessible Waterfront by land or extended property lines converge as in a Cove um or unless deemed a hardship by the town so so my read of that is for people who have less than 60 feet of Frontage they can be closer than 25 ft but as you continue it does say for these exceptions the dock and Associated po boat shall not interfere with a neighbor's access right so that's the the variance right so the so yes if you've got less than 60 feet of Frontage you can have your dock closer than 25 fet from The Edge but then when you got a boat on it you can't then be preventing your neighbor from accessing their F that's fine should we state in here that of somewhere and I maybe it's already here um I've read this thing so many times but should we state in here about a variance of is required with approval by Page the first page on well page 70 is where we were talking but you're talking every dock on on South it's got 50 foot lock so you're say everyone's got 50 foot Lots on there so the the variance the concern the concern that I have Before we or anybody else goes off and puts that in writing yeah is somebody needs to estimate how many of these there's going to be because if every one of these needs to go through we've got if we've got a situation where where we're fixing a problem that doesn't exist meaning yeah where the neighbors are agreed nobody's complaining if somebody complains yes it should go through this process but if nobody's complaining if there may be 50 or more prop properties that have this I think if we I think if that were 50t because most of the properties in those subdivisions were 50 feet Frontage they are dick but you know what I live it yeah right goes from the canal first house coming off the canal all the way past your house yeah they're all 50 foot Lots basically yeah but they were 50 foot on the angle of the street your Coy Drive oh so that they're not necessarily if you took a made it into a um rectangle versus a parogram yeah yeah right but but the way this is written the way this is written you don't need to go through a Varan just because you're closer than 25 ft if when you put your boat on it you now block your neighbor so that they can't access access access they can't access or leaning over just a little bit over the line a little bit of foot not then you know the way this is written then you question was do you need to have that written down because we do years down people been changing on a regular Bas so my my concern is that if if if if we we aren't the ones who would do it if the town goes and says every one of these needs to go through a variance was swamped the issue is it right it would choke the system so wouldn't put that it's still GNA choke the system just so many it's not broke you don't fix it we're just making a mess so I I think I think of a neighbor if a neighbor complains then then there's a variance process they need to bring it before Conservation Commission it needs to go through a whole we need any words in there let me add put my two sense worth in right first of all under 2.1 forms it says all applicant for an initial annual permit right meaning new as far as the way way I read it today right now I'm I'm going to date myself now because I was around when we did the original lpp yeah right and my original doc is on the corner of my property three feet in from the edge of the property line even if I have 136 feet on the lake right uh in any event at that time frame when that originally came out if your neighbor had an issue about it he had so many days to complain to the town that's in the front end yeah that was on the front end right there in black and white if the neighbor had initial he had so many days to complain my neighbor did not complain about it for a lot of reasons first of all I signed a variant so he could put his close to my fence but that's not why he did it he did it because I have first of all I thought he only had 50 ft of Frontage and I got 136 ft but I have never put a boat on the other side of the all right so good B different I'd fight this all day long so should we are you saying we should strike the word initial no I don't I'm just right saying new new we're existing as far as I'm concerned I'm an existing I think but I I think or do we have to add the word existing here say new I don't I don't think we need to add anything I think what we don't right now the way it's written you don't need you don't need to go get a variance I I don't want to see unless an issue I don't want to see I personally don't want to see language added that creates a situation that every single dock that's closer than 25 ft is going to have to go through a VAR process absolutely it will choke the system if the neighbor complains then it should go through a variance process now and do we state that in is that stated if there's a complaint or is that something we should add words that we yes we we could potentially add words to that effect and that would solve that problem right that basically I think that I think I believe Eric that's what the board is asking for some kind of wording because it does exist I'm in the same boat as Scotty 22 years ago yeah so why don't we why don't we recommend adding some words right that say if right if you know and yeah so I'm I'm right trying to do with Acappella right now but I think we should suggest either suggest wording or just suggest that somebody suggests wording either way we could do it here okay that we suggest wording that if there is a dispute with the affected neighbor then then the variance process should be followed we have there is a variance process we don't have to make a new one follow the variance process and if the neighbor if the abing neighbor is not complaining then don't fix things that are see I don't see that because it says initial that's a new Doc right and I think everything should be grandfathered that's what that was my comment except when they move them that's the problem well no but I'm saying if you've got an existing dock in there for 30 years and all of a sudden the says I don't like that doc it it's too close to my land that's it you're going to go to a variance process according to what he's saying yeah that's not right you could have your doctor 30 years 40 years that's what I say too Grand new people move in there you go a new person who in says I don't like that doc you know what then a guy who's had his doctor for 30 years is down here with us yeah because and you don't want that I don't think you do I think you got to leave it alone because it says initial we need anything about stating about if there's if there's a oll because you could refuse the variants you can always refuse the variance because you can say you know it's been there for 25 years yeah how would you know that oh we can tell Google Maps Google Maps I do that all the time well not 25 years you go back 15 years I would say do nothing with it because if the process is already here somebody really doesn't seem be working pretty well you ask for VAR not broke it break we just talked about two of them you just did the the doc with the rentals and the one in the corner well in each case he changed he Chang but he changed what was there because yeah but I'm saying the variance process it exists it works right was that what happened yeah yeah yes so it's working because he doubled the length and the problem was when he see that one I see but I didn't if you look at it if I'm sitting back here and that's the line I don't have a problem but if I sitting here and I put a boat on it the boat's hanging over the property line now there's a problem so I think the long and the short of it is leave it alone we this isn't currently broken yeah so let's not fix it let not break it keep going all right next all right the next thing is um just I gave you the information there was a an issue with on uh it's page 78 78 7980 and whatnot and so and a lot of you may be familiar with it if you could down Lake View Street the one that's going off of bab road that end of Lake View Street straight ahead and there is a a common area that's beach access and it's and it's deeded beach access for a lot of those houses there that was done by Nelson bab originally that that subdivision and so and that's a 1920 something subdivision 28 I think it was but anyway there's a a person that number 41 and we figure it's number 41 because the the railings are painted brown the house is painted brown and it says private keep out you can't do that you can't do that it's not it's not their property they can't do it's not their property so uh you know but I mean that doesn't look like an LMC issue to me that's well we can make a recommendation that to back to the because it would go back to conservation and the Harbor Master Harbor Master could tell them take that take the words off that yeah I'm just they also got to remove the dog the do what about the benches whose benches are those I don't know whose benches they are I see the two benches yeah less concerned about benches because if there this is someone else's I don't get it I mean it's somebody else's property right it's common property you don't get to claim it I don't it doesn't look like LC to me that's just like but people do that all over the lake yeah no no I understand but it's like okay well you're so just tell the Harbor Master who's in charge that she's got invol in that right it's his point it's a good one no it's his point yeah it is okay I can I can send an email to the harbor master um if if that's what you want me to do I mean it's a property line issue it's not it doesn't seem like a Lake management it's not it's using public land for private use someone's taking it over right but that it just doesn't smell like an LMC thing it just seemed that one seems so cut and dry and just you know just a Harbor Master right I can't just decide that this public land is now mine no no but I think I think that would go to the Harbor Master okay is that the same issue that um who was the guy that was from North Pond that that uh kids used to go down there fish all the time all somebody decided Steve Schmid found that's right yeah that happen same basic issue same problem y yeah yeah an individual took it over yeah you can't do that and you can't do that and that's why by the way that's why uh Mr Goldberg over in the corner of North Pond had to get his dock out of there because he put his dock on property that belonged to the association and the previous owner of that property did not participate in the suit that got um when they took over property which they shouldn't have done but they took over all that corner uh and and wrote a quick claim deed and said it's mine now I got a nice Bridge I'd like to sell you do you have maps on all that oh yeah because South Pond had a road all the way down to the canal and we you everybody put boats in for years and years and years when I was K yeah until um the hebd started taking it over and then um if you know the location send me the location and I'll see if I can know exactly where it is was it actually send me something the last property before you get to the canal right yes and that used to have a road all the way down there yeah and I thought it and it was supposed to be common property for every back that RightWay starts at the corner of my property because that's the end of youry drive at that point and it goes down right now to oh you're talking abouty yes there was where Chris used to live right there right but there was a road around back right away yes now the road went around back there were two roads there Chris filled in the hole it went around the road went around the hole yes and it went right down and there was an actual ramp that that was set up for people that put boats in y we used to put boat in there when we were kids and everybody in the back was supposed to have a rideway there and all of a sudden that went away when Chris filled in that area and he put a lawn out there and then they started fighting over it because it wasn't Chris's land and it was who was the guy back there Mike Jim G Jim gas that's it that's it so he filled all that area in yeah Jim and then he sold it to someone else so it's it's all gone away guys but the thing is the bottom line is there's Sprinklers and lawn where there used to be access for everybody get down there which is interesting if you have maps on there I'd like to see it on the old Maps yeah you'd have to you have to send me something I'll get you I'll get you the address okay I'll email it to you next I'm sorry because I'm retiring on on from the DPW on quick I got to do it quick then that's you're telling me what's the date of retirement June 21st June 21st tick tick tick weeks baby over so anyway that I covered everything in there um and I let's see there was one other thing I emailed just so you had it and you can read it I gave you the maps in color of the treatment areas which is pretty neat because it's the areas that we've always had problems with and they're small and they will they will this is the survey results not the treatment when they do the treatment make sure you email me that okay yeah because I I the treatment back yeah because I I keep that you know I'm kind of The Keeper of the ongoing record y so I'll actually email it to everybody soon now I do have one other request before I forget I've got two more areas that need to be done one is the uh Northern end of uh middle pond on the mass side and middle pond on the Connecticut side I can do the middle on the Connecticut side okay so here's middle Connecticut I need to borrow a stapler from somebody because everything I own is in my rolling sh the shipping container in the backyard oh okay no no tools everything in the building went into the shipping and is there somebody can do the we got two already we got two already we got two already so I'm good what day are we putting these up next Friday next Friday get a little weaker or something next Friday not this Friday not tomorrow well Michelle usually I'll ask Michelle if she can do that yeah she get some of I think she did last year yeah yeah okay so I'll put Michelle question mark the other thing I'm going to make a motion we adjourn sorry no I was asked uh by an interested party where the fishing tournament money goes what do you mean the fishing tourn you know the tournaments um they they must have to pay something to have a tournament no they don't no those are free okay there's no Fe yeah now the organizer on the fishing tournament they collect money they have a big pot that okay yeah because this person was asking me about why don't we have a boat wash and I was explaining about the you know the lifts of the land and well that's no good we're gonna keep fighting this stuff just I'll give a quick quick uh tutorial on the boat wash it is against the state law 320 CMR prohibits washing or flushing of any boats on the state property so where's where could it go on town property South ramp no place to put one North ramp would have to be up in the street very difficult here's the problem that's a drop in a bucket they're not manned 247 nor will they ever be manned 247 the ramps have to be open 247 365 you can't shut them that's again in that 320 CMR the other problem is we've got three marinas that we got no say whatsoever about and there are probably roughly a dozen atg grade entrances to conoman scattered around the three ponds where you can back a boat down right and now clear clearly right if you wanted to fix everything that would be it clearly if there was a way to handle the two public ramps you would get the greatest percentage but I don't see how you do that and there's one more thing that I didn't get to say is if you picture a boat when it most boats pontoons fishing boats sit on carpeted beds when they come in you got all that stuff trapped between the carpeted bed which is wider than my hand yeah and the boat and also in the motor it's in it's all can and it can be in bill it can be in however what is worth Lake George since I talked to these guys Lake George does it but it is a big deal I don't know exactly how it's done but they have certain number of areas that are remote where it is done and it has to be either inspected or you get some kind of a sticker before you can still put it in what you have to do in Lake George there are certain places that are approved to clean your boat and once they do they Sage a cable that locks your boat to the trail when you go to launch your boat somebody at the ramp has to that cable and if that cable is not there you are not allowed to launch that's how they control it so so the launches are only are controlled you can't go so not open all the time yeah there's got to be somebody there and because they chain them off and then that somebody checks to see that you've got a sage tag and they cut it yeah because they have also had an issue with milk oil they're trying to do everything they can to keep and and of course the issue our lake is small enough that it can be treated right Lake George if mil foil takes off in Lake George it's untreatable it's so big yeah it's so big you know it's like in the great in the Great Lakes you know when they've had issues the answer is people why you treat it you can't yeah it's an PL got lots of problem it's too big so so that's why they've done that so it's doable but it's a yeah and too yeah invested well they charge big bucks for all their things oh yeah oh yeah okay so now I can go back to this person to tell me yeah yeah yeah before before we adjourn yes I've asked about this now for at least a year or two yeah is there a chance that especially before you retired can you get somebody in the DPW to go down in front of the wear Gates fot out oh and not having them hit them we really need to dig that out so then a guy like me then or my comrades here can go down from the backside and lift the gates up clean the crap out because we only got to clean out a foot yeah right and then we can bottom flu it and we can attempt to lower the gates a little more than we can stuck stuck and then we have a better chance at trying to get the lake where it should be because it's ugly I just happened to have with me tonight some pictures I want to share answer to your question yes they will do that I just want to share these pictures have before once upon a time I used to have in front of my I used to have in front of my uh retaining wall green grass and some dirt and everything that went three four feet out now I'm looking more like that scenario I want to see some of these a second yeah you know all gone erosion erosion I'm down now looking at underneath the stone underneath the block and this thing has been there for 25 years so I never had this problem until the last couple years and I'm afraid the Wall's going to start to sink a lot people replacing all because water and erosion so okay can we can I make a motion that we adjourn yeah you think you can do that get with a back it out yes they can do that please they just have got to stay away from it like we have in the past I will second dig deep though deep in all right hold on so made a motion I made a motion to adjourn okay hi hi all right thanks and it is what 810