we're going to open the [Music] meeting March 26 2024 this is being conducted in a hybrid manner pursuing to the general laws folks folks hello we're opening the meeting okay please um it's being conducted pursuing to the general laws in a hybrid manner if anybody is recording that is fine you just need to let us know anyone okay um this will be recorded and we be will be put on online for anybody to watch um 7 o'clock Town plannner reports thank you very much Mr chair um let me it's one win okay couple items to report on since our last meeting um we do have feedback from the Attorney General's office in their review of the uh revised byw related to uh it was to be brief conditionally uh approved there are some minor uh amendments that they have suggested and minor review items that are suggested that we undertake with Town Council looking forward uh perhaps another meeting if we need to make any adjustments I'll pass that down for ones DRS uh I'll share that over at two Lakemont Street um a building per application uh has come through uh for construction within the previous uh footprint of um a pre-existing non-conforming um home set in that Lake area and those small lots of surrounding it the review that comes across my desk is really for compliance under zoning because they're adding bulk they're actually they're they're going from probably was a maybe a two bedroom or so home s the family that they're going vertical there is a specific uh section under our um pre-existing nonconform uses structures lots of Di that says it needs to come before the planning board for a special permit um they have a couple of other permitting items to manage as well but that feedback was provided so I hope and expect to see that in the coming weeks and months uh I'll also share that uh yesterday the select board approved our requests to hold public hearings for amendments to the short-term rental bylaw and uh to hold a public hearing on the zoning map Amendment for Sodom Mountain Campground uh so those two items along with the definitive subdivision plan and storm water management permit for Oak Ridge Estates that's the subdivision off of Mor Ving Road those three items have been added to our um April 9th agenda so sufficed to say some of those I think are going to be relatively straightforward but I think we'll have a reasonably busy April T so with that we have the nth and we have the 23rd yes [Music] um um yes the the target is to manage our business for the meeting within those dates if at all [Music] possible in addition to what we're running right now yes all right appreciate um everything you're good oh that's it we can keep going okay um 705 public comments anybody have anything for the board tonight that is uh a matter not on the agenda being no one okay uh 7:10 p.m. public hearing planning Board review and discussion of the southw 2040 master plan final draft consideration of its adoption John um go ahead I was going to say the good news uh for this meeting is that we do have the revised document what I affection refer to as the final final draft of the South 2040 master plan uh we have two sets of revisions that um should be examined the first set was essentially verbally Mr when he attended um meeting earlier this year and uh the second the planning board did a good job to painstakingly compile uh with me and provide to him so while we have the good news of having the document that review is not yet comprehensive and complete and I do think the document deserves um at least a walkth through um if only to provide a second third fourth set of eyes um it's understood that grammatical revisions um anything particularly minor not substantive to the content will likely be we'll just say accommodated up until the moment it goes to press um but I do want to make sure in particular the um the information that was verbally taken um translates well into the document and that the board's concerns are managed yeah no I mean I'd rather get it done the right way I mean I think we're all sort of utilizing it as a as a um guiding document anyways so okay if I why don't me take a moment since we have it uh to at least plan out um future steps with that uh I would expect that in the earlier portion of next week I'll have my any remaining notes or at least acknowledgement of each of the sections I will go through the uh recording meeting with Mr K U and if you'll pull out those comments and Iden they managed or any or any concerns okay okay all right um so what are we looking at [Music] for top minutes of the agenda for next [Music] week we have 662a cently scheduled um that evening on the 9th um I put first the the in case there's any Gap yeah what is it short-term [Music] Rion [Music] okay and this is for the backround yes um yeah why don't we uh do I hear a motion to continue this public hearing opportunity to for comments oh fair enough I mean I uh well I don't no we haven't fair enough no want to make sure thank you yeah we're not doing anything substantive on it um and agreed there's nothing really that has changed from the meeting um okay so do I hear a to continue this to uh 7:45 on April 9th da second roll call vote Michael dhy I Dave I is Dick not I didn't even look okay you there now Mike I Goa okay that's an i d and I Jessica Thor and I okay technically challenging evening all right so that's a 7:45 um let's we got a little time here um haers is there anyone here for that or is that just with you that's going to be just with me [Music] um what did we need to follow up on with the campground um I I I'm speaking to either one of you I was looking at you but either one thank you so I believe we Amendment which it sounds like the select have acted on referred that to uh your planning board um at perfect world we would really love to get the text amendments um on the town meeting if that was humanly possible um sounds like that's been discussed but not necessarily in the works yet um we'd be happy to stick around later if you wanted to talk about the text amendments or if there was a a procedure that we could help uh the board or the selection appr uh that would affect those changes during for this to but um having heard you the last public hearing and um being realistic we understand that um that may or may not happen so we're available if we can make it happen I'll leave it at that okay um okay well I mean I don't think it is um so um the zoning amendment should be able to get on for the Tom meeting any changes to the bylaw I don't think could possibly get on there for this meeting um so um it probably I I mean I guess I don't know which tell me again which was the uh option number one and one a and 1B how did you how did you well think the better option was at least in your mind um if there was one and not saying that there is but I'm GNA make one up right now I expect nothing less right so I think with the r 40 zone change should we be afforded that at town meeting um that will allow us to work under the commercial recreation which is under that section I believe um with regard to the pre-existing non-conforming language that you're putting forth from Tom meeting as well I think that will also help us in a perfect world we would have had the um the text changes um but understanding that that may not come into play we would try to work with what we're what we have um you know subsequent to town meeting and look to come in with a a plan a site plan that you know aderes to the best abilities um to the regulations that we have before us and then if for some reason we need Rel other than that um we might have to look to the zba for potential variance or two I'm hoping that's not the case because of the pre-existing nonconforming nature I'm hoping that that langage allows us to extend the pre-existing nonperforming structure in our use but I think once that's sifted out I will we'll assess um does the um again and we're just you know we haven't finalized it but assuming the discussion about the non-conforming uses by law sort of goes forward as at least kind of generally discussed right and give some flexibility over this um is that with the proposed changes to the commercial recreation bylaw um does that sort of make move the need to change the zoning in your mind or I think there's two Avenues forward I think we could file under the R40 zoning if it gets changed to R40 which would then be a arguably conforming use so then I don't know what happens with regard to the non-conforming the exe extension of a pre-existing nonconforming use that probably goes away but I think the non-conforming structure portion of that bylaw change that you guys have proposed will affect some changes that will help um us either expand existing structures uh or you know may be a new bathroom building or you know the pool house whatever it might be because right now they're basically hamstrung to the footprint based on that regulation but I think it's going to help up and we'll sit through it um and I think we can navigate it yeah I mean I just be you know I think it's unlikely that we'd be able to do I mean we'd really have to hustle to do anything for this meeting right and so if it was something that would the way I would kind of think about it is that if it was something that would sort of make the request for a um zone change for that property moood right so that you could put them on a Town warrant this if it passes is then we don't need the zone change kind of thing right if you if that was the sort of path forward then I would say well maybe we should at least think about trying to get it on there because then you know it's all together and you can kind of withdraw one if you don't need it right um but if that doesn't sound like it's the case it sounds like you know you would probably want the zoning change no matter what and then sort of it seems to me that the Z change is most appropriate y get us in line with what's actually going on there currently okay and then we'll go so then I think yeah so we'll that's on um obviously we're going to try to get the non-conforming on and then I I think the other one will probably table a little bit until um we have a little bit more time to to get it on may not end up you know take advantage of that so we we appreciate everything you guys are already doing yeah and I don't I mean I regardless of whether um I think it impacts you I think that that bylaw is worth looking at a new and we're going to have sort of the diagnostic on the Bop anyways and so that may fall into that anyways um but okay um so why don't we look at Tuckers and just get that off well this is coming up uh so we have an application for the building department for the replacement of the existing sign candles uh this is be the free standing sign out in front of Tucker's Restaurant um so there's a there's a need for me to speed up my zoom work here we go okay so we have a there we go replacement of the the L as well as the U excuse me the lettering the the the changeable sign down below it we are roughly speaking um excuse me 16 square feet um on that main panel each side we're limited to 50 square feet total in the business district Lo College Highway well under um the thresholds for both and this being in direct replacement um with acrylic sign panels so we look for your recommendation I saw that myself TR do some office office tour okay you you find what is there is remarkably similar than what's I see make sure my memory okay everything do I hear a um motion for a positive recommendation for the sign replacement at Tuckers at 625 College Highway Dave SPO moved singer second roll call vote Michael dy I Dave I singer I I Jess th and I all right that is all set um why don't we talk about Noble Ste sure um so uh I had today our second meeting of the month we're meeting every other week um with the developer over at DPW and today he brought along his uh the weaing consultant that's doing compliance monitoring um and coordination items um alongside the developer and the whole conservation just for us all to have kind of a grander picture um the important items I think for us to keep in mind is that thus far we do have direct lines of communication um there is progress out there uh most recent work related um to that particular site involved the reconfiguration of the turnaround uh it wasn't mandated by fire and safety they were comfortable with how the road tring loops around and provided access um to the final lot um but to alleviate some erosion concerns they worked alongside that excuse me the conservation consultant to put together a little bit of modification push out the road a little bit further um and and at the same time provides a little more room for maneuvering at the end of that currently Dead End Street um there are a couple of I'm going to call them paperwork items uh that are currently being managed by the developer the first of which is a conservation restriction that's for planning board compliance um ex compliance under Zoning for the uh flexible residential district the special permit um for that subdivision as you may recall it was brought to the one yard line um regrettably wasn't uh recorded and now a change of administration it's had to go back so that's currently and confirmed to be still in review um with our legal representation here in town at which point in time once they give it the green light it'll go back to conservation and the select for the signatures off the state for theirs prior to recording um that's I going to call it administrative item number one administrative item number two relates to the fact that I'll try not to bore you with details but if you have a permitted subdivision under the Wetland protection act and there is a discharge of there's fil to Wetland air areas as part of that even if it's entirely permittable you need to put in place uh either a d restriction essentially same for the entire subdivision all the locks no one can fill additional Wetland um or file for what they call a 401 Water Quality certification uh that particular item relates specifically to the uh Crossing uh the stream Crossing I should say it's the wetlands Crossing pardon me to finish the Loop Road um and it appears that that item which goes back to I well the paper work on it goes back long before uh the developers ownership of that project um but regrettably that was not resolved it does not appear to have been resolved early either way they're looking into it uh they're speaking with d to identify a path forward um to bring that to a point of resolution so they work out there the investigation work for soil borings uh excuse me soil uh analysis for the footing for that Wetland Crossing can still be undertaken um the developer does report that he's frankly shuffling his schedule around um a little bit to accommodate having to um manage the those administrative items before he can begin work um um and complete the subdivision roadway so as it sits right now Mr Brown and I are satisfied that work is proceeding we still have open minds of communication um and we understand that pickups like this are going to come along hopefully not too many like these particular ones okay okay all right I didn't the GL you have three more minutes on uh I don't know if I could come with three more um all right um we don't have minutes uh shable the next one correct um okay uh you know why don't we just quickly look at that creps letter it's very short are you trying to bring it up there Mr chair I wasn't but I can no no you don't have to Mak I get want no well I can see the [Music] file I think you have you got to let me share them let's try that okay all right so um this is the this is is only dealing with the cooking equipment correct that's correct this is specific just to that okay all right um so I think I can put almost all of it on there um any um me let's talk about the sort of numbered paragraphs first uh anything that folks have to add into those or uh suggestions um one time per week do that mean like they can't do Saturday like Saturday and Sunday is that what we landed on or yeah I think just I think we I mean tell me if I'm wrong I think we landed on this is a trial and let's just see how it goes and sort he I think he's the one who suggested one time a week so um that seemed reasonable to S of see how it goes and then figure it out from there um um I mean the only thing that I saw in here [Music] um is it doesn't have to be in here it's not necessarily connected but just the idea that this is um simply for the fruit preparation out there it's not there's not going to be sort of serving eating I mean not extending the restaurant anyway he's still confined to the the the limitations are there change that I don't know if that needs to be in this letter or not but um I think it's been fine but there needs to be something in here that just sort of says it doesn't change anything related to the you know um otherwise change anything related to the operation of the restaurant other conditions proposed on there I don't know if that's something that you think needs to be in there or not I it needs to be there probably wouldn't hurt okay I need to go and inspect these things absolutely go when you're hungry um all right so maybe just add in a sentence at the end or well yeah I'm tell you John um way first us to get get around at this point and I apologize I I do not understand what the difficulty is over here um here I'm going to write I'm I'll do this off because it's not I need to save everything but um this is my fault I that uh so I will add a sentence that says that [Music] um this um MIT minor site plan modification uh does not um otherwise uh is not [Music] um expand the um dining or um um or other conditions imposed on the operation of the restaurant that work can read it again if you want yes um the this minor site plan modification does not expand the dining or other the dining service yeah aspect of the restaurant operations all right this um minor site plan modification does not expand the dining service aspect of the restaurant operation or other conditions imposed on the operation of the restr okay have one hand raised with Mr oer yeah go ahead D I have a question um I'm trying to get back to the screen I'm sorry there was a u comment here was on number four I believe is the operate the equipment should be operate only one time per week um with that warning could he could operate at 24 hours a day once a week right can we put some sort of time frame on that um I would I mean my hesitation is only because and I'll turn to our smoking expert but um longterm low low and slow is the way to goow man is that yeah I mean it may very well be that R is 15 it may be cooking at 4 a.m to 5:00 p.m. not necessarily served until 6:00 p.m. yeah I just it it I think the operation is one day a week um one time right said one time per week okay I agree with that but I think so many ways we should put a parameter on time I mean how many hours or between noon and 8 or between 5: and 10: or something like that just so we have some sort of handle on it you can there's not much you can cook on a smoker in that short period of time and have it come out to be something pable right but then again do the neighbors have to be put up with the um smoker over for whatever period of time that the G likes to cook smoke the the the flavor or the one that produces a a different smell is only for the first few hours um you know six seven eight hours and then after that it just heat to reach a certain temperature and type of smoke as he's using aren't aren't going to produce that kind of smoke not by looks them no I mean I think different than any other restaurant that's already doing it now right and I think when we talked about it dick the I I mean in part by limiting it to one day a week and just giving it a trial to see how it goes is it doesn't change I mean if you live next door to Sutton he could have that thing going all day long uh multiple so I mean it doesn't I mean it's it's similar to being in a residential neighborhood if you have someone who's who's doing something right so and these are reasonably small um pieces of equipment is my memory right wasn't one a yeah yeah we're not even talking about like a big style one correct so that's I think the thinking is you know I I they also do have to still comply with with sort of nuisance laws right um and and they just the point apparently we're we're we're open Live to the public and I just got a point given to me that some briskets could cook over two days which is do that is true well I suppose that'll be a restriction that is they're just gonna have to have other um so I don't know that's where I would that's where my heads at dick on that do you have anything else to add on that not right now okay Mr yeah if I could just inject for one moment um I did have the opportunity to review uh the conditions with Mr rensis owing to we'll call it the fluctuating nature of our New England weather the he appreciated the floating if you will one uh day per week we wanted to make sure that was the the board's understanding as well so that theoretically you had one calendar week you may end up with possibly two adjacent days across any given 14 toj I I'm sorry the Saturday Sunday  I want to just make sure we're all comfortable all I feel silly asking it now all right um all right let me just say this because I'm [Music] um right is that what we want to put in here I spell it right but yeah right I mean that sort of defines that um so there's no issue with that and [Music] then [Music] than uh any other proposed changes no okay um go down to A and B here um in here thank you all right anything else okay um I mean I know this isn't a public hearing and we didn't do it but did any um there's nothing in Matt's email about um that's the name right um about this par portion of it is was about the refrigeration largely yes I think there's some concern over we're going to call it incremental change fair enough um but I just wanted to at least there was something I couldn't remember there being anything but if there's something in it I wanted to raise it for purposes of this letter so that I appreciate that okay all right um so with that um do I hear a u motion to approve um this minor site plan modification as written Dave so moved ding a second call vote Michael dy I I singer I I jica th and I okay perfect all right um let me all right um sorry folks I took longer than I thought um so we'll go on to 7:30 public hearing 771 College Highway um retail development site plan or special Department site plan review and sparm Water Management permit app that gentleman is now reporting but what just put a cell phone down there I'm not sure if recording or not that's just walked out of the [Music] room is that recording that is recording okay okay thanks yeah I was okay um just give me one second Rob okay John do you want to pull up on that was there on that also excuse me good evening for the record can everybody hear me YK Rob Mar associates also here this evening with me is our land use Council Mike pill who is somewhere in cyber space here listening so um wanted to bring you up the speed since the last public hearing um certainly heard a lot of questions and concerns from the plan board related to how we were approaching things as well as some neighbors concerns so we wanted to address those um we've done a lot of work since the last public hearing I'll go through a lot of that in detail um I'll also go through a lot of what I've provided to the planning board so our initial application that we provided to the planning board kind of details out everything that we're planning on doing based on our site plans subsequent to that we we received comments from the town um from the planning department as well as from the city engineer or I'm sorry Town engineer uh Randy Brown related to some of the storm water and other aspects of the project um and then after the last public hearing our office prepared a couple different documents um the first of which was sent I think on March 13th and that is specific to some of the questions the coners raised related to kind of zoning where the Town Center District applies where it doesn't apply it's really not clear um um3 the original I think it was I'm sorry 15 14 14 15 the first set of town center guidelines actually I think that was the second set right it was prated earlier so long story short there's a couple sets of design guidelines that have been provided they refer to a town I'm sorry Town Center District which arguably was never defined from what we can tell but the tenants of those are good planning practice in general we understand that um but a lot of them are in conflict with the zoning that is currently provided under the business restricted zone so we'll get into a little bit that um I don't want to bore everybody with what we're not doing or what may not be applicable but just in general we provided a document we went through and kind of cataloged you know we I think at the last Public Training I had mentioned that there was a number of projects that went through and kind of had a similar Arrangement certainly sent for time of the uh Town Town Center guidelines or the the design guidelines so specifically I provided a list to the planning board um I'll go through those briefly but a list of properties and their Square footages so specifically 691 College Highway can dollar um it's called out as 3, 37 sare ft Tractor Supply 17,6 sare ft or Auto par 7,225 sare ft um Celtic DPW 1870 sare ft valine Express Care 6,000 ft² whip City tool and die 8,000 ft 87 ft Sawmill Park which is the um I guess that would be American what it's called I guess it's called sou here now that's 73420 sare ft uh Interstate Building Supply 22620 sare ft um in the Forest Area Funeral Home uh we stopped basically at the um you know at the interstate Building Supply and Forest Area because that kind of gets down into what arguably appears to be some sort of town center so you know those were just basically trying to describe what's on this route there are residential there's you know it's kind of check aboard as we go up and down um but specifically we wanted to point out that those structures exist they're in similar size and massing to and frankly some are a lot larger some are a little bit smaller um but generally they're consistent with what we see being developed throughout the the business restricted Corridor which is kind of more Apple name because of the section of business restricted on each side of Po Highway that essentially [Music] runs um North and South to the outskirts of town so the second layer that we provided to the planning board was to kind of clarify that that Town Center District I won't go into it in specific and if somebody wants to have that read we can certainly do that um but generally speaking we were looking for the clarification of the boundaries on the district um and wanted to resolve any discrepancies regarding the design guidelines handbook um and then guidance on how we ensure it aligns with Town Vision there was some discussion in um folks on the last public hearing that we we're dealing with the master plan so we went back after the last meeting and the first thing we did first thing I did is talk to my client Gary uko from Koo Development Group about the building so first of all um we received the uh this afternoon uh a correspondence from the planner through one of the members or I believe through one of the members in clarify for us um of a couple uh building designs uh that both had gabled roofs and front koua I believe different materials um which completely intersected with what I had talked to my client about Who provided me building designs that have Gables koas different materials all of which can be done um the kedo development group actually has on their website probably five or six buildings these are not necessarily prototypical buildings they have flexibility they obviously have to get the right square footage and generally they're you know a rectangle box they can work with the architectural features so the intersection of those two emails um I think was a positive thing um my client was already willing um planning board is looking for something almost exactly similar so I have a couple copies of what my my client sent me they're literally from a text message and I also have a copy of what you guys sent us so I'm going to circulate that tonight so as far as the building goes I think we can do better and there's no question that they're willing to do better um so that was a big piece of the design guidelines so what I saw they would want to see massing they want this to have a rural character a box is not what we're looking for we want some you know address this this building up um they also use Hardy plank sighting um which is a very positive very good build building material um and they like to believe it or not put brick at the bottom because it protects the building um and it's more durable so they would have a brick skirt around the bottom of the building if that's preferable or they can be clapboard um already playing sighting um colors are flexible I know there was a comment I believe I heard at some point regarding you know Westfield has a a yellow look to it or something I don't know the specifics but certainly we have some flexibil so we'll be happy to look at that with you um I want to make it clear I'm not looking for any decision tonight we're here a little bit as a working session to take input to give you what we worked on we're not trying to be dogmatic with regard to the Town Center District we understand the idea of applying that whereever we can in in Southwick it's obviously a rural community a recreational community so we're just kind of this is you know kind of just setting the table so to speak for what we're deing so that was the building so I I will share those in in a few minut minutes and we can just kind of circulate those and see what you know take input and we have an architect at our disposal to work with those and come back with something ideally that's pal palatable to the planning board and hopefully to the the general public so from a site plan standpoint so a big point in the design guidelines and this actually shows up in your in your zoning regulations a little bit too um they you guys encourage and the town encourages parking behind the build okay um Andor on the side of the building which we do have on the side of the building so we're partially need the trick with the zoning District that we're in the the business restricted on the district and the towns well I don't want to call it the design guidelin which technically ar ar really defined as Town Center but arguably partially applied to the town center um they're inconsistent so the business restricted Zone has a a minimum front setback of 75 so we can't do a building from the street line so if we're looking at the street line down here the property line along the street we have to measure 75 ft back before we can put a structure under zone so in order to go closer to the street we would have to get a variance from The Zone Bo appeals and it would be inconsistent with the zoning and it would be relief we'd actually have to get relief to put the building closer so on a piece of Trace as a lot of us designers do we take a piece of trace and we flip it over and move it around so I literally in the office took a piece of trace and said okay what happens first of all you know the function of the building goes away you're at the back side of the building but if in fact that wasn't an issue I said okay what happens so if we take and hold the 75 ft front setb back if you can visualize this and we were to flip the site so that the parking was in back we actually have much more and it's about 70 feet more of disturbance within the lot right so we would basically take the fif parking we can't put the building all the way up to the street where the parking is we have to we'd have to have the front setback so the building would be a little bit farther forward and then we flip it so this whole area back here would become asphalt I know Mr Hamlin just built a beautiful home back there sure that's that would be a concern obviously the folks to the north and and windfields would certainly be more impacted by that so what I did is I said okay that doesn't seem to work that seems to one it's not with the retailer wants for sure two um it would have more impact to the north and more impact to the West so what we looked at was okay we had a storm if you remember in the last plan we had a storm water base and that kind of was like on an angle was going back so I said to my guy I said is there any reason why do we have it that way right legitimately didn't need to have it that way so I said let's tuck it closer to the building which is completely within the regulations let's increase the open space area that we have and let's see what we can get so we did a calculation I have it on here so I have an acre and a half of open space now so I tucked that near the building we have the septic system in the storm water basin right near the building um and then I looked at our our landscape buffer our landscape buffer frankly was somewhat lacking um so this is an increased landscape buffer so you have a very specific requirement for the landscape buffer when there's ever a resen property near you and that's um the minimum I believe it's let me let me confirm that I'll confirm that but so we enhance that so there's some vegetation on on the cell side um the site is uly nuted right now so I went through on my way here and looked at it closely there's some scrubby vegetation coming up but it's there's nothing nothing nothing value so the thought process that I had was okay so we've tucked our Basin close to the building we keep this tucked down as much as we can I did think about sending this to the South but we have a water quality sale here that would prevent us from doing that so I just gathered as much space around the outside outside as I could and I would this would be a proposed planting buffer Evergreen buffer to completely screen the neighboring properties um I also have internal to the site a stock a fence so it's kind of like a a dck barrier so to speak where you have a stockade fence around the outside the Basin is within it so no one's looking at the storm water basin it's kind of tucked behind the building and then attached area that you see in this green area that would all be open space so that's about an acre and a half so you know roughly 60 something thousand square F feet an acre and a half of um completely protected open space that wouldn't be touched so we could do a l I think there was a mention from a former Town planner um about Wildflower Meadows or something here so we could do something like that or we could let it rate um we frankly don't need that land I've already talk to my client they're happy to not touch it um which would really increase the buffer from the north so just to give you some Dimensions I think I dimensioned it somebody asked me last time so it's approximately 67 feet to the building and about 50 foot to the fence or so rough and tough so we would have a completely vegetated planted buer along the perimeter which is shown here and then we would either allow this to regrow with natural vegetation um probably secondary successional species initially and then you know making way for other more mature vegetation later or it could be maintained knocked down once or twice a year could be a wild flower metal I that we you know suggested so Stockade Fence vegetation and then the buffers so this is you know I don't want to say this is unheard of but this is very rare for a commercial site to be able to accommodate that we don't need that if we frankly if we we give it away if as long as we're still compliant with Zone we literally don't need that so we we talked about this amongst um our land use Council and the applicant and we're happy to put a conservation restriction on I want to be careful what I call it a declaration of restriction conservation restriction comes with a lot of the headaches that you're dealing with on the noble seed no seed um a declaration of restriction can restrict that and I think it I think it arguably times out after 30 years but the reality is it's it's a you know it's a it's a restriction in perpetuity it would be easy for them to put on and they would declare that restriction on that acre and a half so that nothing gets done in there um it doesn't require stewardship from you know any sort of agency it just you know would be undeveloped and arguably would protect further protect the neighbors so we have Mr hlin back here we have windfields here um obviously there's lots to the southe but they're kind of separated from from us from you know a a wetland resource so so we feel like those two pieces are probably the biggest pieces of the design guidelines that needed to be addressed right uh also you can see we've really address the landscape buffer um and then the rest of the design guide lines you talked about roof lines and frankly one of the roof lines that was shown was like the same roof line that we had which arguably is not what we're looking for we're looking for some sort of FAL character with with Gables Etc so I'll stop there for a minute um because I'm sure you guys have questions so maybe we could that to the chair and then and happy to continue on okay um so the first thing um and this is I guess simply memory and opinion but as someone who was on the board at the time um my memory is that so we had the recommendation for a Town Center District that was done through a public hearing it sort of played out where instead of having an overlay District of a Town Center District it simply was using the BR Zone and so um certainly there was po editing um but um but basically the design guideline just got applied and brought into the bylaw for the business restricted Zone um and so there certainly is some uh typos as I look at this um and certainly should be corrected and they can be corrected you know outside of Tom meeting we can just do it at a meeting um so um but I and I and I see where you're talking about with the um with the setbacks I mean I don't think that that's necessarily um I think that's more you sort of are not going to necessarily you have to you have to comply with the setback so you're not sort of using this as a as a fe inches type of parameter um but I think that's it I mean I don't because it is in the bylaw that you're supposed to use the design guidelines obviously you you use them to the best of your ability and if there's discrepancies with the bylaws the win um so uh that's the first thing I mean and secondly I guess I'll open it up to the board is any questions comments and kind of go down the line uh one quick question I guess is how far to the was that the to the east south yeah yeah how far to the east does the stock aage defense let go all the way lot I have it going to the U let's say it's approximately 25 ft from the street line um we don't want to create any sort of visibility issues but we want to make sure that any sort of any lights going in either direction is stop so it's right at the end of the parking area there so it would arguably prevent any sort of north south intrusion of lights that would be a six foot stock probably vinyl material and mostly really just for the me benefit of other members of the boards I I sent John a couple of pictures of I Googled General General uh Dollar General architector or whatever and got a couple things were basically not boxes that's what I was looking for something that's a little more New England I don't know if necessarily those pictures are they're not ideal by anything but they're heading in a general direction so they are pretty consistent J is it possible to share that and I can also pass around so there was the email from John which he'll be able to share and then I also have some from the actual developers web page which I apologize for it's a kind of clip at the drawing yeah there's two different ones I pulled off that I actually you know you want to take one um yeah so this is you know this game would be difficult to do but the front cable I think the second image that they sent is is pretty consistent to what the develop certainly material types orientation of clav siding [Music] um that the same one yeah this one's a little bit narrower but this is you know this is one you know this is kind of Southwestern but the idea of the Gable the you know we we have a lot of flexibility in what we do with the side the two sides of the building either side of the building are Hardy plank um all the way back um so essentially you know three sides of this are going to be you know for public consumption so to speak even though we'll have a stock and the r buffer so they're willing to you know we're willing to take input on that tonight so certainly I don't think we're far off the ones that I passed around are are I apologize for clips from my clients text to me but I I saw the intersection of the two you know ideas and they seem pretty pretty spot on so I wanted to share that got a Fast Pro Shot yeah that so they and again they can you know this rural town we can you know add to the rural character um the uh you know if it's okay through the board just kind of by way of introd reintroduction to Dollar General so they um they are not they're as Dollar on there but they're not specifically a dollar sore everything in there nothing probably almost nothing cost a dollar um they are General small you know small box retailer um with General Services they actually have and this is something from the Cita group that they explain they're uh Dollar General is moving to providing perishables so they have a couple different models where I don't know if you've heard of the DG Market you can look these up online um the understanding is that a lot of these stores will be converted to having like a market type perishable section where they'll have you know Ty typical you know produce and other things so something to be you know so it is you know there's these food deserts that they call them they're trying to fill in these food deserts obviously you have a couple of the big boxes um local but these would kind of fill in the gaps so to speak so um we can play with the building uh we're happy to take input tonight on that then bring that back to the Poo group so that their architect can put together some ideas but I think we kind of at least what's been exchanged so far is is in the realm of understanding what would be better M um we did as as requested um we did reach out to M doot we have an access permit that they control the the highway there so with regard to the sidewalk we did reach out to them and I have a copy from if they have an online portal so I apologize going the format but we did pose the question in the uh po Lugo Delgado responded on March 12th saying that mass this is the specific comment says Mass do has no sidewalk projects scheduled for that area at this moment so whatever that means to you just wanted to get that back to you with regard to the the question about sidewalks so if we did do a sidewalk it would be a sidewalk arguably to Nowhere for a long time so um that's just for the record thank you and then you know our goal tonight would be to answer any questions through for the board as well as the the general public and then come back with the we we'll be final know finalizing plans and finalizing architectural so that you know hopefully we come back to something that's much more palatable um anything else from the board or Mike yeah de any chance um when Rob was talking about sidewalks could they work into their budget a sidewalk that goes from their building to the senior housing which is next door in case they want to walk over it' be safer instead of walking on the road if they would be willing I mean I guess there would be a possibility of a connection are we thinking Mr tinger is that Windfield you're talking you're talking about the old americ I'm sorry what I didn't hear you I'm sorry was that windfields that you were talking about uh whichever one there is right next door yes one where people has some concerns I think this may be um advantageous to everybody if they could get access to the building maybe you know they might appreciate it more yeah um we wouldn't be opposed to it I know that it is a condo community so on their side I think the ACT you know creating access on their side would be slightly more complicated but on our side it would be we could certainly provide a path if that was desirable to those residents I know there's some starw water basins out front we have to figure out where those go you might not want people walking by your union if if you live on that side I don't know it's really they can I'm sure speak to but yeah we'd be a to do it if that was desirable I guess this property management guy I know he'll probably make that work um anything else on the board all right um any public officials have any questions or comments uh looking in the room first and then go on Zoom Jean Q 49 ft Road development [Music] commission je 49 Road Economic Development commission pretty impressive site plan but as the petitioner said I think two meetings ago that U College Highway is a maor major artery definitely from north to south through South Lake and I've seen this before and something for your consideration serious consideration is as that high way is developed we go say from a strip of two lane almost no uh soft buffer on the side of the road okay it just drops off that if it goes to a three lane at minimum of say a three lane it spots right now at the South End to um Tractor Supply okay at that point any expansion in here your uh screenage and everything else goes away then you add a sidewalk and you add in potential for uh that soft Buster or pull off and then also I'm seeing more and more of the electric bicycles on major highways and there's a lot of FO seen a lot of foot traffic you know in that section over there and but it occurs but what what the point being is is that once that expansion goes all your screening goes away and the highway is now right on the road uh one other thing you only way to accomplish that would be to maybe push the building back in order for future adjustments but the other uh safety concern is because of all the motorcycle traffic on the highway I would also ask that the uh consideration that the screening in front be also moved back a little bit further to prevent anything that might cause motorcycle accidents or something that nature even though the lights Flash and everything else it's something for your consideration thank you just yeah go ahead through the chair so great questions um so we are on a mass do uh jurisdictional road so College Highway anything that we do this curve cut that we're proposing has to go to mass do so we've already started the process with them the piece of paper that I provided the planning board was the response initial response to a different thresholds for review 25 50 75 and then final approval so as we work through that um this gentleman Co will be reviewing any plans that Mass DOT has we posed regarding sidewalks because we wanted to be able to answer that early for the planning board but any sort of GL widening um which we're not aware of in any way form at this point but any sort of Road widening or any sort of MTH eot projects they have a they have a it's called a tip tra traffic Improvement plan or whatever that the acronym stands specifically um details Mass do projects going out you know more than a decade and again as you're aware Mass do projects don't happen overnight either so um I think it's fair to say at this point they have not identified any projects that this would be in conflict with but they will certainly be reviewing that through the process they will also be looking at our our vitation we'd be happy to shift it back a little bit but we have out front our Acer rud or red maple um trees out front we can shift those back a little bit if it's if it's a concern certainly working uh we did communicate with the fire department had a ni meeting with Mr G and the fire department so we I believe addressed all the questions that were um part of those comments so happy to take that into consideration but we will be reviewing that with mass do and they will Noy us of any issues thank you um any other uh public officials in the room here and then I'll go online okay uh any public officials online have any questions or comments seeing and hearing none um I will go to public comments in the room first just raise your hand yeah you could thank you rob Bob noes 25 Winfield Circle and then our association at winfields has sent you a letter and told you some of the concerns that we've had one of them is these planting over here we sub field right here and that we had to take out the Shrubbery that we had there because it was growing into the field and that's the same concern we have here is that would be going into it um the other is from my understanding from being on the board a couple of times and that is 10 ft in from the highway is still under the state control and that so whatever you planning on doing it's got to go back 10 ft Beyond keep yeah so you know you got problem there the other is you got this parking lot here and drainage and that which is again going to go over to our uh field where is it going to supposedly back here I can I can answer I mean we have a lot of flooding in this front area I have to answer through the chair sir I'm sorry okay yeah and if however you if you're if you want to keep going and finish it up and let Rob respond or do you want him to respond as we go along I do either way I just need to do it through him yeah he can respond you can if you want to hand it to okay thank you yeah um so the first question is a good one um the the colored area that you see is actually within the property the 10t or 12 you know 10 or 12T that you're talking about is from the edge of pavement which is here okay okay um so that area that we're talking about is right there so that we are outside of that area so any sort of widening or any sort of work that the mass do wants to do with them the right away they certainly can proceed with that without sort of any any sort of takings uh so that that is item number one um your septic system we are very familiar with the issues that you've had from a septic standpoint I believe a couple of your consultants and even our office have looked at a couple of those it multiple systems but all all considered aggregate to the entire facility so we're very familiar that so your minim your minimum setback from your property line is 10 ft which I'm sure I know that I know the consultant that did it the the repair um so you're definitely over 10 ft for the property line we can certainly um be ultra conservative belts and suspenders approach keep anything that would have any Roots well away from you again the planning board has discretion if they wanted to have us push this landscape buffer farther this way we can certainly do that it's just the requirement is that we kind of brittle but um heavily plant this area for the requirements but if they wanted us to shift that away we can certainly do that and still make the same effect as far as the storm water good question um the storm water is going in the exact opposite direction of you guys um as you're aware the soils on site are really good up front and you guys probably experienced it are really bad for the back um we are in the good uh on the front um it's about 6 or 700 feet that can transition to really nasty material so up front we have really sandy soils groundwater is is is not shallow so we're able to do we have a basin it's on another sheet I apologize but it basically runs off the parking lot back to our Basin which would behind our building there's no overflow and there's no water directed to the north so um everybody should be um have no concerns over the septic um you guys are regulated under I believe you guys are still regulated under Title 5 because you're under ,000 gallons per day so you know we would you all of our setbacks all of our requirements would keep you completely compliant with your septic um and certainly the storm water is all handled on this side of the property so nothing will have wor sorry okay but you still have from here to there there's a significant elevation change no uh it's not um do you want grading plan up can we bring up the grading plan sure sh I here the C5 which is our grading plant shows the surface grading so the dash lines that you see are the existing Contours um and the proposed lines are the dark solid lines so we have an elevation in front of the site of about 246 um our storm water base our our elevation at the back here is [Music] see that better oh heck you I'm going to zoom in yeah there spot 243 maybe something not much I can tell you from the but a little bit makes a big difference so so when we design so when we designed through so very subtle change from front to back it's almost flat as it exists now we're going to have the Basin down obviously have a Bas a little bit below the proposed surface um and then we have a seasonal High Ground water separation that we have to we have to meet so we have a minimum of twoot of seasonal High ground water up at the bottom of the Basin so that's all all the D standards have been met we have a little bit of confirmatory that's a word um uh test fits to do for the engineering department but we're going to do those once we hopefully land on some of the More Design related items so the other thing that I recall from the last meeting was that the fire department wanted access to the back of the building and that or with fire trucks and so we did meet with the fire chief he was very helpful um this gravel panel here that you see on the revise plan illustrates what he was looking for so we address that so I believe and I don't want to speak for the fire chief but once the final set is uh submitted we'll send that to him for the revisions but I believe all of his concerns were addressed there were some radii concerns on the way in as well as um the strip uh in the back that he wanted to see basically wants to be able to get in he was actually saying that I believe most times he would expect fight fires with the trucks out by the road um there's a fire hydrant that exists right here it's about 150 ft in the building so it turned out as we started looking at things um we I believe we've addressed all those concerns but we we venture to make sure he has that information and gives us confination okay my final comment is the same as before but that in terms of you put this Dollar General there and that as people come down the highway and that it's looking like the town is a lowincome town and then you got the $3 do stores in a row and that's within a short period of time and then it gives a bad impression on the overall of the town the other is it's going to negatively impact U value of the property within windfields in which case whatever you're going to pick up in tax money from the store you'll lose in the residential we don't want that thank you thank than you okay um Sor Bishop think I don't think I need that up um EV and I moved to Windfield Circle about 12 years ago moved from West ampton which is country had a choice of Westfield going to come to Southwick we Pi South because it's still face of the country one of several questions I have is why do we need another dollar store we got enough of them already number two we don't need a walkway from the dollar store to Windfield Circle because I don't think we'll be shopping there the business plan for Dollar Store from everything I've read which has already been mentioned they come in for low income area which I don't think I don't know where that isn't sou like I don't know if we have one or not I want to know from the edge of the building to the Windfield property line is how far 67 ft okay I have a problem because my gas grill is only about 20 feet past that and I don't want to have my smoke for my grill interfere with the customers at the dollar store for five days the looks of the building everyone's heard the saying that you put a lipstick on a pig it's still a pig I hope that the board I hope'll TR down we have enough sir what was your name again Dan Bishop okay thank you so we're just noting that sounds like at least from Mr Bishop the connection is not desirable at DIS point Thank that's probably a fair point um anybody else have any comments public comments in the audience here last comment I'm sorry I was just saying it sounded like you were saying that the connection between two between the community and dollar store is not desirable yeah Mr Fels Marcus Phelps 28 Depot Street probably be okay he is definitely lot couple things hopefully the board has had a chance to go up to that area and look at the various uses just in your mind as you're coming south from the Westfield line you're going to see a doctor's office a manufact facturing company a warehouse storage building a trucking company a gas station SL convenience store age restricted housing a used car lot a restaurant that's what's there now and the planning board hased in the past a special permit for the property across the street from this site for a mixed use retail SL apartment building and then some business warehouses in the back so the area has quite a variety of uses currently and I think this Dollar General store would fit in as a retail store in those uses for the business restricted Zone um Rob had a question the last meeting I commented on the number of Park spaces I think you were allowing 45 maybe something that that per and I do remember that thank you um we're showing required being 43 and we're showing 44 with two hand pass spes okay so I commented that over in Feeding Hills uh their Dollar General store over there they have 37 parking spaces 35 plus two for handicap so I was hoping maybe on the revised design some of those spaces could be possibly moved or taken away either moved from the front so there's only one row of parking in the front and shift it over the side the planning board does have the ability to adjust the number of required parking spaces so did you think about that at all um I didn't well so I thought about it I didn't do anything with it yet um the reason being if the planning board that if that's palatable to the planning board I would then communicate with the developer to see if if the proponent they have a certain number of spaces that they like to have but certainly if there's extra it sounds like the one we did in agong has less spaces so that if that's we would certainly not be opposed to reducing the spaces just so long and this is just a caveat for me that that the proponent in the retail are okay with a certain number of spaces but yeah less asphalt and less development for everybody is generally good so um you would not be opposed to looking at that but I have on the site the managed area of the open space or the open space I think that needs to be somehow in a managed condition you mentioned Meadow but it can just be you know a field that's mowed I think it it should be maintained in some way not just left to grow up Heth scal well I agree because I think what's going to happen is the landscape buffer that we're proposing that should be attractive and the perimeter would be attractive but the area in between I think it's if it's mow and or knock down I say knock down loow a couple times a year um at least so it's a you know it's a low meow um I think will be consistent with what you see John Wall properties across the street the other stuff so I think it'll be it'll help inance so we'd be happy to have a maintenance schedule where they mow it a couple times a year be we don't want to maintain it as long um again but they could but it could be but I think it would be it would make sense for yeah I don't go for the one yeah if you're using chemical fertilizer keep it as natural as possible yeah but I'm only a few times a year the final comment is a Family Dollar store which is located next to Tractor Supply is closing on their website you will see the communities where they're closing stores South is on that list so the dollar store Family Dollar Store will be closing I did get confirmation of that between last now um my understanding is they they took SP they they're completely separate company by right obviously they took space in the you know inline store that um village is in there's you know business decisions for obviously but this is a completely independent company they're expanding they're doing very well again the um the uh the market you know that's kind of a cool concept they're transitioning storage this will probably start out as just a retail but the idea is at some point likely change over a little bit and some of those those SKS will be converted to parishables Etc so regardless um yeah I I think all those comments that we heard from Mr Phelps are logical and you know again if we reduce the I mean I guess and this doesn't necessarily impact the application that's before us but I do wonder if the Family Dollar is closing why that's not a more coste effective solution for Dollar General to go into there rather than spend the money to build out the way this is complet yeah completely different operation completely different company completely different products no I I I I understand that it's but it's still a building that is of a similar size um and could be retrofitted to what they needed but field and I happen to permit the KFC that's 15 ft down the street from the other KFC some of these things don't make sense to any of us but obviously from a corporate stand you know just corporate logic I gu no yeah it doesn't change the application I'm just it just me as it stes me as a little bit odd yeah again different different slightly different market and you know the question about the community right I don't think it says anything bad or or good about the community I think they will get they have such sophisticated information maybe we have Deep Pockets and short arms maybe we just don't spend in town maybe we spend somewhere else but these convenience retailers um they're the ones that are filling in the holes um so you know clearly a market for them good um any other sorry 38 wind Circle I'm against the building sir if just we can't hear can't hear you so I'm against the building of a Dollar General at 771 College Highway my condominium complex is adjacent to the property and I feel it will have an adverse effect on the character and value of our proper there are2 doll store would be $1 store convenience stores a big Li Supermarket within a few miles of the proposed location we also have five fullsize grocery stores and $10 stores to follow up on what Dan said within a 25 minute drive from here you know when is enough enough the Dollar General has about 19,000 stores and plan to open a lot more they will keep putting them up because profits grow with each one new stores they gain about 20% they have been fined by OSHA in the past for safety violations I have been in a few stores in the area and would say that their housekeeping inside and out was not very good fluttered in the aisles there were bins boxes and products stacked in the aisles and the aisles in the dollar stores are about half the size of what they are in the supermarket outside near the dumpster of one store there was trash behind the building plastic and cardboard on the ground and a large bucket overflowing with trash I know I know the uh ex me I know the sidewalks were mentioned but what bothers me is that the Dollar General will be located in the middle of three residential communities many of those residents will be within walking distance of the store and and as as I understand it there will be no sidewalks crosswalks or crossing lights at this location the speed limit is 45 M hour in this area this is not a very pedestrian friendly Road it would put anyone walking to the store in very dangerous situation even with major improvements to the area I think this would not be a good location for a retail store the fact that this would be bad for property value should be seriously considered I hope the board will make the right decision for the residents of this area thank you very much thank um any other uh public comments in the audience here thank you my name is Pat Montana I live at 20 seven Windfield Circle I'm going to reiterate what I said at the last meeting dollar stores have their place but this particular area between 6005 to $600,000 homes and $400,000 Condominiums it does not belong there I haven't seen a dollar store yet that is located between two lovely areas such as what we have and the stall store hopefully will not get approved by the board besides taking down the value and like I reiterated before I've been in real estate 40 years and I can see what's going to happen especially for the ones on the north side of this General dollar store thank you thank you any other public comments in the audience here yes sirol PP carold Pete Pete I live in 16 Winfield Circle I'm here as a person who will in my backyard literally I will see the store I'm concerned about property values but I also have concern too and that is as a active participant in the master planning process over the last couple years and thank you Mr Phelps for doing a great job including the community I feel that have I have a bested interest in making sure that the master plans Concepts and details are adhere to so I I think it's incumbent upon you folks to make sure that this is consistent with the town's master plan I also have a concern um with the design guidelines that the town has prated and that I really feel that this should be adherent to those guidelines Mr phel made a suggestion just now about um reducing the parking so that there's only one layer of parking and I think that would be a compromise towards adhering to those guidelines so thanks very much for listening thank you okay anybody else in the audience here Sandra he 16 Windfield and this is basically kind of one of these futuristic things I'm going to say and basically you're the salesman you're doing a very good job but after you're gone and the people have built this building supposedly if it's approved now you're not assuming that it is going to be we're going to wait and we're discuss it and see if it will be approved but if it is when you say you want okay you want this Greenery and you want all these beautiful things I've noticed in town with a lot of the new buildings or newer type buildings nobody is going after the buildings after the things have been shrubber or uh treed they look like crap so that means who is enforcing those particular buildings that have SES in front of them full of weeds and fences that are falling down the question is who's responsible for this building if we have it put up with all these things these beautiful fences that fall down Etc who's going to fix them the owner and if the owner doesn't as you've seen in a lot of the buildings in town I can think of three right off the top of my head or two you are going to be the ones that are going to have to come down on the owner and say Hey you know things are falling apart this is not happening can you fix it that's the only thing I think of sales like when sales people used to come into my office I would always say to the boss when they leave who's going to come take care of us and that's exactly what happens once you're gone or the owner is gone who is going to take charge and who is going to come down on them if they don't take care of the building because our our lot does our back of our house does go towards that side we're not on the other side but that's would be my biggest concern the follow through and I I like I said you're talking like to me it sounds like you're talking like it's it's already done deal so I hope it's not because it is our property values too and most of the dollar SS that we have visited or Family Dollar or whatever are not between two residential areas and it it's difficult I understand your job but it is difficult so that's all I have to say um uh yeah you can go first go ahead I don't know I know go ahead please um so thank you for your comment comments but I'll I'll speak to the the last young ladies comment um so specifically the owner will be the kedo Development Group they own a number of properties all of which a lot of which at least can be seen on their website so as mentioned there's number of different locations um I am not an operations person for Dollar General um I don't know why somebody would go through and there be something in the aisles obviously that's an operational issue what we're dealing with today um and have been dealing with are the site related impacts of the proposed development specifically site circulation traffic um specifically Mass DOT will be looking at the curve cut the access any of the conern that were were mentioned so I'm not a Salesman I have a lot of answers because I do a lot of these things all the time I'm out four nights a week dealing with good and bad right so I have the answers because we know the regulations we know the storm water regulations so those canned answers that you're hearing from me are not disa we literally just have dealt with so many of these projects Dollar Generals and others right so the kedo Development Group will be the owner they will rels it to Dollar General the owner will be responsible for certain aspects of it and Dollar General will be responsible for certain aspects of it if it's a triple net lease which it likely would be um Dollar General will lease it um and arguably maintain it if there's some issue with the building or fences or signage that will be worked out in the lease so there will be one of two people responsible either Dollar General specifically in the lease or the owner as far as enforcement the town of southw has an enforcement arm it's not necessarily the planning board it's typically through the building commissioner or the zoning enforcement officer which I believe um is the Building Commissioner so they if there was ever an issue or if you're finding issues in town with people that you think are not compliant or buildings or other things that you think are not compliant that is the avenue to take you can call the building department let them know that they're not maintaining certain things um so there are a number of projects up in down this Corridor uh developments as Mr Phelps had mentioned that certainly I'm sure from time to time are not perfectly maintained but the majority of what I've seen going up and down the corridor um may be temporary situations but if you see something the enforcement arm is definitely the Building Commissioner he's going to kill me for saying that because they'll probably get a couple calls now but that's the important part so there is repercussions for people that aren't compliant planning board in their decisionmaking process for a special permit I apologize to I don't mean to stealing Thunder but they obviously have the ability under the special permit process to to condition this project very specifically and then make it enforcable for the Building Commissioner so if somebody doesn't comply with the poine reir or the fence is falling down or something happens five or 10 years or now they will have the ability to go and enforce that based on the condition issued in a permit this is not a done deal we're not being presumptuous we're not wishing to have this approved tonight we're we're really here as I would call a work session to work with the planning board try to get some feedback on the architecturals talk you know take any more uh questions related to the site plan and again provide what we can we're dealing with a Dollar General a retail store so we're trying to provide what we can up and down the corridor I think we were going to take a look maybe at what's out there but as far as you know values we hear this all the time on different things especially when it's in people back it feels real it feels concerning we understand that I'm not saying there's not some level of of question or concern that's going to come up but we we hear these things all the time I can tell you that water is not an issue septic is not an issue this is a very minimal traffic generator Mass do will be looking closely at this for the access this is a pretty straightforward project on a piece of land that's actually plenty big enough to provide offers so we're going to work hard we'll try to do our best to do to any questions or concerns you have but again we have you know project that for us thanks um one thing I wanted to say in addition to what well to reiterate what Rob said one of things I wanted to say was and this is just simply for everybody so that they're aware of the process because I think a lot of people may not you know know the process well or be here that often um one is as Rob said it is the building inspector down the hall Who is the enfor M arm of anything that we issue any of the special permits that we have um it is on the building Spector to enforce violations of that so if there are issues um it is the building insector who you'd go to uh to enforce it um the other thing because it came up in one of the letters that was sent in um I just want to be clear and and sort of said a little bit today we have an obligation as a planning board when an application is made to hear it uh that is statutory we have no choice um once it's in we have to hear it we have to consider it under the bylaws and make our decision um I can't you know um speak for how people interpret what we do or how we do I don't think we've said a heck of a lot here tonight but you know I can tell you having done this for um 10 years now that you know I think we do a pretty good job of taking in all the evidence and then making our decision at the end nothing has in any way decided at this point in time um that's just not how we sort of function so just so that everybody understands what the process is that's how that that goes um all right any other public comments here in person before I go online I just have one quick question you said there's minimal traffic coming here to the store is that correct uh yes that's what I said why do you need 37 parking um so the zoning regulations required I think it's 43 parking spaces so the zoning dictates what we provide for parking because they want to make sure that there's more than half doz Cars any one of the dollars there you go I agree with you so what I was saying shot myself so yes so to be fair there are typically minimal cars at these places they want to make sure they have enough for the big days the exciting days you know around Christmas or whatever it might be right just like all these other facilities so there's a way to reduce the amount of parking and satisfy the retailer and you know the planning board thinks that's a good idea we're happy to entertain that and it's not a bad comment at all we would look at that thank thank you all right um anybody online who has a public comment okay seeing and hearing none um and any other board comments here okay dick anything no I'm good okay yeah one question sure I'm just wondering uh other than this gentleman here that that was is in favor for the uh for the Valor General have you have any other favorable comments from people on that um I mean I don't know if you were here at the everything we do is is in person right so um at these meetings so if you're here at the first meeting um whatever you heard there is what is you know I I mean I I'm a lawyer so I I consider stuff in evidence right but um we hold these public hearings because that is what we decide on so we use what is said at the public hearing and what is submitted to make our decision so the only thing that we're considering is what was heard at that public hearing and what was submitted I can tell you there's two letters that I was going to read through quickly um both are from folks over at Winfield um so you can probably guess what those say um but um so you've heard you know you've heard everything that we've heard okay thanks I just I just Tred to get an idea of what the overall you know understood um okay so let me read these in and then we'll continue it on well um Rob first of all thank you for handing the microphone around um but secondly uh what how long were you thinking for the work that you folks need to do to come back uh so I was hoping to solicit at least opinions from the me not being presumptuous but hypothetically speaking if the Dollar General is constructed i' like to get them opinions on architectural um just show kind of what we heard they've seen some of them show them get a feel for it um because we'd like to come back with something that hopefully meets with the ryal character and matches what you know people's expectations would be um and then um I just wanted to say I we do a lot of work in town in suround commities I've I've done three plans for the site so far um I'm not sure which one people will think is the best or the worst but I can tell you so far we've looked at for storage self storage and that was concern um we looked at it for residential and didn't make didn't make its de view all the way but there were some concerns that we heard about being competition for L field for the resale of their properties um so there was about a 15 unit condo project that we had contemplated so that was another one so we were looking to potentially reone the property so now we're before you with arguably something that is zoned properly obviously if we adhere to the requirements um so we're we're looking to basically make this fit as best as we can to the planing board as well as the neighbors so we're um there I would argue that we're meeting all not argue but I would suggest that we're meeting all of the design criteria and Ken with the building the really the only deviation and it's not necessarily deviation because it's a suggestion um is the parking in front but we would look at seeing if we could even reduce that further so we we're trying to make this fit the best we can and make it minimal impact for the Windfield folks because we we understand it is in their back thank you um so just I think more housekeeping to make sure these are on the record um I'm not going to read in your letters rob you did I think a good job of summarizing what they say they're certainly available if anybody wants to come and look atoma reach out to John um there's a letter dated March 13th um and uh um this dealt with uh I think as you started off today um what properties exist over there and you ran through the list of of properties that you talked about and the size of them um then there is a letter dated March 19th um which discusses uh the issues that you rais with the design guidelines handle um and so both of those like I said I think you did a pretty good job of summarizing what's in these letters um rather than read them again they are available if anybody wants to take a look at them um I will read in the two letters that we received from uh Winfield since the last meeting believe since the last meeting once that we already read that one no those two are fres regardless the date on okay understood um so let me read them in I guess chronological order here um first we received one um dated March 6 2024 um and this is from the windfields Condominium Association um Dear Mr Goddard and planning board members the winfields condominium Community would like to register their opposition to the proposed Dollar General store with the town or southw planning board the winfields condominium Board of Trustees and our representation of 41 homeowners is opposed to the proposed dollor General Store as it was initially disclosed at the February 27th 2024 public hearing the opposition in part is at the property line on the Northern side of the windfields condominium and the proposed Dollar General Store side is reported to be 67 ft included in the Dollar General's plan is a proposed vinyl fencing and installation of plantings etc for screening purposes Windfield has windfields has a septic system at the rear of condominium homes number three four and 5 which is located 10 ft from the northern property line the concern is that the installation of plantings may lead to underground root growth that could in time harm the system previous ly windfields had Arbor vies planted around the septic system for screening that had to be removed for the same reason additional concerns include but are not limited to no sidewalks are presented to service pedestrian traffic for this commercial application no crosswalks are presented to service pedestrian traffic for this commercial application parking lot lighting vehicle and building SL sign light will have a negative impact on surrounding homes enjoyment of residential occupancy it is understood that hours or operation extend beyond the average Dollar General prototype it is understood that the number of spaces is in excess of the average Dollar General prototype assume that means parking spaces um the building design submitted is the same as the Dollar General standard in a commercial area setting and there is no attempt or consideration to deviate from that prototype and blend the building design/ structure into a residential setting the general vehicular traffic noise from everyday operations as well as disturbing noise from large diesel delivery trucks running for extended periods drop loads and arriving at early morning and off hours is an unreasonable and unacceptable disturbance to owners of the longstanding condominium homes that but 771 College Highway chiefly the application is completely inconsistent and out of character in this residential area the surrounding homes and Condominiums can only have their taxable value injured by the highly commercial installation wedge between planned and approved residential communities further our review of the town of Southwick master plan makes clear that the application is not consistent with the planning described nor the spirit of the document and its intent to preserve a proper aesthetic for its residence and future the windfields community would appreciate your consideration of the above concerns and your discussion in any decision on the matter of a special paric application and a business restricted Zone next uh final letter to read in is dated March 19th 2024 from Wayne stickles of 12 Windfield Circle Dear Mr gard and planning board my wife and I have been a resident of South for 4 years we have enjoyed the community and expect to live here for our remaining years I was pleased to see your development of a master plan that could be used for the positive and beneficial growth of our community I was surprised and disappointed to hear that you and the planning board were considering a special permit to build a Dollar General stor 771 College Highway this decision seems to be a bit outside the master plan I don't understand the thinking behind allowing a large retail building to be stuck between a community of 41 condominium homes on one side and residential homes on the other side and directly in back of the building a brand new home still under construction which I'm sure will be valued at over $500,000 the software Community already has a Family Dollar store plus another dollar store in the Plaza Ocean State Tractor Supply and a multitude of convenience stores if the owners of the current dollar store located in the Village Pizza Plaza planed to move to the new building then our community would be left with at least 10,000 square ft of open space available in that declining strip mall the owners plan to install vinyl fencing in a few bushes is so much for Aesthetics how does this improve the look of the community and fencing will not eliminate the noise and lights there is no benefit to the residents of this community to have another dollar store or the old dollar store in a new building this business certainly does not belong in the middle of a quiet residential area which has been properly zoned as business restricted okay um anything else we need to deal with tonight okay yes ma'am [Music] jarfield I submitted a letter I left it with Jonathan you did and I it's yes yes thank you thank you okay um this is dated March 5th um I would like to go on record as opposed to the application by Koo Development Group LLC fa of Mr Gary ukalo considering the abing lovely homes and condos I don't feel this is a good fit a more appropriate match would be a dental or medical facility a real estate Financial or legal office or any number of specialty shops your consideration in dealing with this application is greatly appreciated sincerely Dorothy Gerard 44 wentfield Circle thank you man' for pointing that out and thank you for the nice handwriting that I could read all right no I didn't write that uh I certainly didn't um all right um anything else we all set um uh do you have the agenda oh I did I I'm sorry um were you thinking the next meeting or the meeting after that um and I can tell you the next meeting is reasonably full at the moment okay um so it's I'm not saying you we can't put it on there um but did you say the nth nth the 23rd yeah I have a another so so yeah so I think two two meetings are possible 23rd that would be great okay yeah that would give us time to update architectural and then we find anything okay um what are we do we have anything on for that it's why open no obligation let me see that agenda if I could please what's going to that's an unknown yeah yeah and yeah and this is no I'm just look um they doing a regular not a yes okay that's potentially clicking over so why don't we right why don't we put this uh continue this to 7:30 p.m on April 23rd da mov yes no do you was there something with that or so just wanted to clarify um if we do reduce the parking does that require special permit I'm trying to remember I should know this it's it's you speci yeah you can go red a 20% reduction with justification which I think we're starting to yeah yep um motion to continue to August or August April 23rd at uh 7:30 p.m G to put it way off um do I hear second second D singer roll call vote Michael dhy I Dave i d singer I David S i j and I all right 7:30 7:30 yeah steal those thank you rob good replacement [Music] right yeah I don't have the hair for I didn't want to ask but does anybody have any consideration black bears we have to our backyard bobat coyes they can WR down the back sour in a cup every spring down we could leave a thank you guys yeah all right folks we still have a few things on so um quicker you guys can clear out or take the conversations out the more appreciated um yeah why don't I at least start we can 8 o' 8 o' all right 8 o' public hearing proposed amendments chapter 185 section 28 non-conforming uses structures and lots microphone oh you need the I thought someone was walking out the door do you need to sing would you like to hear me sing yes put on the agenda for next meeting you start with some Moana that was Bill in the tea where did we leave off on this we don't need you for anything else you may if I may yes you may so rather my clunky fashion we walk through the idea of adding planning board um planning board consideration uh for offering flexibility albe it under the condition of a special permit for a number of scenarios to non controling structur uses Lots we entertained discussion at the board level understand from town officials and from the public with I'm going to say a minor exception early on uh but not with substantial or at least direct modification to the draft that was before us all right you want to bring up the draft yes everybody comes for the excitement and then when it gets boring they leave Mr I may need you to do the pie is this for information purposes just information purposes yeah so use it for that bonfire up there FES getting yeah tell one what are you sending it to let's just grab that one on my end nice with a [Music] sweater you won't be able to stop at the Dollar General and buy anything I'll be the manager um sharing no I just yeah okay um okay so I guess let me just open it up to the board for points they want to bring up and discuss the move this forward to hopefully get a vote on it next meeting [Music] um anybody have any particular Parts they want to discuss tonight don't everybody stick it um this is the other one right Jessica you're moving into kind of just notes that I copied and pasted from correct that's what I want to make sure um all right so full disclosure I have not been able to give this the attention that I typically give my work product um in between meetings for that I apologize but it also I went to the citizen planner training collaborative um yearly training and sat in on a pre-existing non-conforming use Workshop that helped to kind of clarify some of my thinking but also at the same time um kind of imploded it um there's so much in the legal background of this particular um bylaw that towns are able to put forth that um it can be very complicated and challenging to write it through um I think that myself and Mr Godard working together over the next couple of weeks could produce a more concrete and actionable um item for us but we need to kind of get everybody's base position on what you would like to see do you do you agree with us continuing to move forward with allowable changes to use allowable changes to structures and and the like and just there was a point of concern or a piece that you want to make sure that we included or did not include going forward um any guidance or thoughts um helpful no I mean I think the biggest you know in my mind um I like the sort of proposed changes that you had and how you sort of structured it I do wonder if there's a distinction between building modification and use and whether those go on separate paths as you kind of and I and I feel like so what I edited previously was pulled directly from what we currently had I just modify existence and as lovely as some of that language is some of it is very hard to reconfigure into something that's workable it makes sense um so I'm kind of in the process of building out a separate non-conforming uses if it does B bent bent okay and then if it's a non-conforming use and kind of separate those paths out a little bit and give a bit more concrete guidance to ourselves and future boards um no I think that's the right path and I'm sure with the legal guidance of John Gard that you will get there that's not dropouts over here I have a question um as a new person uh to the board how do you determined detrimental to the neighborhood or keeping with the character of the neighborhood like how do you all agree on that because it your opinion might be different than mine and and your yours my different how do we handle oural disputes that because that could that's kind of you go to the gy and so right and it's a fair question and so here is the here's the run right you either have to um make something very specific and so you're defining for everybody how it's going to be going forward with no leeway or you're building in some degree of leeway that you know the board can sort of take into consideration what they think or what the community thinks at the time and sort of have this you know standard right I mean it's it's there are pluses and minuses to both everything right right and so I mean if you really have a very strict standard that they have to meet um that doesn't always work that's hard right um and it's also it's something you'd probably be changing over and over and over again um the trick is to try to find language that is specific enough to have some constraints but broad enough to give you some discretion I don't know if that's the case and maybe there's better language and if you have some please suggest it um this is one this is this is from um other bylaws right or other bylaw or bylaws I can't remember it's more than one but it's it's certainly in there um it is it is a bit of a sense that you get Tak into account when you hear from audience members and what you see and there's a little bit of part to it right it's not necessarily science um but I am more than happy to listen to any other language you may have that anybody may have to sort of put in here to find that happy ground of not too strict but not too loose thank you and for the um how how to make this decision going forward one of the specifics that was shared with us in the training is in regards to non-conforming uses and when an expected special permit comes forward to us looking for a change for use to the use that we ask it a three question test first we want will the use reflect or conform to the nature of the zoning that existed so is it a restaurant going to a similar thing or are we talking about a restaurant being changed to a manufacturing facility are we talking about a hotel that is adding perhaps a ballroom inside their hotel or they're looking to change the hotel into a dance club like two different things um the second question is will the expected future use not create difference in quality character or the degree of use so for example if we have a sitdown restaurant being proposed to be changed into a fast food restaurant that may not be allowed as it changes the number of customers served the increased amount of traffic and the loss of quality and character that could be an argument that b numbers can have and depending on what has been front of us weigh those benefits and then the third question is will it not greatly increase or abser new negative effects upon the neighborhood so there is some noise might there be a couple more voices added to it sure but are we increasing it are they now producing something that's going to create a smell are they now going to be changing it to completely half outdoor seating with bands playing and barbecues going and so you are able to use those three um levers that we can kind of build into the body law that a future planning board can pull and say you know what this doesn't pass this part of the test pass this it may pass that but no so it gives us the ability to be flexible but also give us some legally defensible language to stand behind if we find that no this does not fit the character or quality and however we or the future board members to find that so yeah I think that provides a little bit more constriction but also gives it makes it more understandable it gives you a a path to p and I don't I don't have it Al so nicely but also there was kind of prescriptive of if we're talking about a building on too small of a lot right and the person already has a front porch and they just want to widen the porch but not go any further into the set pack than they already have allowed like that's something that can be achieved via variance by the zoning board of appeals and we don't have to touch right but if they decide that they're going to widen the front porch and put on a back porch that now even makes that setback greater and this would be a business and a single family the single family has different rules but that is something that we can then look at and say all right now adding this back porch to this building is that going to create a much more negative effect upon the neighborhood so that makes sense right it's just collecting all of that and foring it together all right yeah if we want to get that together and consider that at the next meeting you're able to that would be wonderful I will do my best um you're you're welcome to shoot me draft I don't know how much time I'm going to have to look at it but you can certainly and I if I do I will shoot it to you prior to Monday y ask me okay um over you all right anything else all good all right um why don't we put this did I already put in clock or did I not put in I do not believe you did for 8 o' do I hear a motion to continue to 8 o' on April so moved take I sing a second all right R call vot Michael I I singer I David Su i j th I all right um planning board member comments staff comments the streak is the stre is dead is dead I want to go home that's comment considering that I am I'm gonna count that I am gonna count that good um okay um do I hear a motion Mr Sutton make a motion to close the meeting dve be the second all those in favor say I I I all right I