##VIDEO ID:6x5dX5f1hWg## good evening everyone and welcome to the select board meeting for Monday September 6 or excuse me Monday September 23rd 2024 6m here in the land use hearing room present this evening is myself chairman Jason Peron Vice chair Diane Gail Burke Doug moglin ceao Nicole Parker and assistant CAO naen sigon start the meeting with the pled Allegiance Mr Phelps would you lead us please I pledge alce to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice [Music] that's the problem move on next thing item on the agenda is public comments start with the audience present is there anyone interested in making a public comment Hamber yes Lee Hamburg 48 South Long a road um I'm speaking on behalf of the South historical society and just wanted to share with the select board that our or organization is asking for CPC funds to purchase 74 College Highway place a conservation restriction on it create a Land Management plan provide a kiosk with information rules and a map and finally allow Public Access with a trail on September 18th with CPC Community preservation committee unanimously voted in favor of the project and the public will benefit in a variety of ways the project will conserve a rural landscape it will also help to preserve what is identified as a Heritage landscape and the general public will have access to the property for Passive Recreation and it will be accomplished without the town incurring any liability exposure there will be no additional need for insurance coverage no need to maintain the property no impact on property taxes with the use of CPC funds and if the Conservation Commission agrees to hold a conservation restriction the town would have the power to inspect the property and enforce the CR now earlier the this year the price on the property was $900,000 and that was based on potential use as a marijuana growth facility because the permits have lapsed the price dropped to 275,000 then 250,000 and the society has since negotiated a price of $175,000 for the 10.52 acre industrial restricted Zone parcel combined with legal closing signage miscellaneous costs the request is for2 $ 12,750 we're asking that a special town meeting be called this fall and that this project be placed on the warant so the citizens of South can have the opportunity to vote on it thank you that and I don't know how the other board members feel but I'm fully ins support of what cpc's done so you know I know that's actually former part of the more Farm correct yes it had approximately 185 Acres that went all the way to kamont Lakes I believe at that time public comment I have a point of order Mr chairman I believe the agenda has the incorrect Zoom address on it and I believe that there's people awaiting to join that meeting via Zoom versus the one that is being broadcast out on channel 15 so I don't know how you want to reconcile that but uh we probably should figure that out okay probably worth taking a moment because I one person texted me already why don't we uh we'll take the momentary recess to try and figure this out okay me back to order um and and we were on new business is there anyone else in the audience that has any new business that they'd like to propose or speak about Mr Phelps Marcus Phelps 28 Depot Street I'd like to Echo Lee hamburg's comments uh I'm the member of the board of directors of the CTIC historical society and I've been involved in this project to acquire 74 College Highway I'll be working with Sabrina poer in drafting the uh warrant article and it would be helpful at your next meeting if there could be an agenda item for this topic uh it's important that we do get a decision on having the special town meeting as we're involved with developing uh the sale with the or the purchase from the seller so one of the key things is that there will be a special town meeting and uh then funds hopefully would be forthcoming thank you thank you Mr is there anyone else in the audience if not I'm going to turn to zoom is there anyone on Zoom that would like to make any sort of public comments only once at this time it looks like there is no further C public comments um we're going to move on to um new business item four on the agenda item a we're going to have Economic Development M presentation for the college Highway changes Mr biley come up come on up right RG DIY 10 Salem Road chair of Economic Development commission and I'll try to make this quick I think the concepts are simple we did a survey of our businesses earlier this year and gave them 10 priorities the top one was shop local and and then promote Southwick is Rec ational but one of them that weighted really high was one that said to upgrade our main business Corridor is to make them more pleasant and attractive to potential customers so that combined with our the adoption of our our new master plan that has is a primary strategy to enhance the Town Center is livable workable and walkable neighborhood uh we're proposing a couple things that we think would help the businesses and and help achieve our master plan goals next and this is in two parts the first part is to reduce the Town Center speed limit uh by 10 miles an hour from the existing from uh Tractor Supply down to IBS it's 40 miles an hour now reduce that to 30 and the rest of the way to town hall it's 35 reduced to 25 go to the next slide um part of the concept of this if we look at the Massachusetts general laws it has certain default speed limits that say if if it's a business district or densely populated you know it should be considered unless otherwise posted to be 30 miles an hour and we're 177% higher than that in the town center and and 33% higher than that in the north end of it next and they consider that what is reasonable and proper then the car crash uh from the Department of Transportation shows that since January 1st of 2021 uh nearly 40% of our car crashes in the yellow area are in that one and a half miles of Highway uh that's in the town center and uh you know one and a half miles compared to the other 90 some miles of of Road in the town is a high proportion go on to the next slide um why the color disappeared but I'm sharing the screen because the folks on Zoom couldn't see your pres anyway another point is safety for pedestrians that the risk to pedestrians increases exponentially with speed and you can see a dramatic difference at at around 25 mil an hour it might be 25% severe injury where it's 90% if you go up to 46 or 75% at 38 and the reason for that is if you remember your physics that Force varies by the square velocity so twice as fast means four times the force next slide and then turns are a problem I've heard people say there's certain times the day they won't turn into a place in downtown because it's too hard to turn back out especially if it's a left left turn the the traffic and that the the lead space you need varies greatly with with speed as well not only because the oncoming traffic is coming a lot faster but you also have to it takes longer to get up to traffic speed so there's a dramatic change in the amount of space you need to leave and so it's it's just exponentially harder to turn out when when the speed is faster next slide and then I did a a test not very scientific but I drove 10 times between here and Tractor Supply and I cons you know I'm using Town Center as the part that has sidewalks on both sides which which is basically that distance of one and a half miles and I did it five times at the current posted speed limit in five times as though it were posted 10 miles hour slower and the average difference was only 14 seconds um now you may get different results depending on this was during the middle of the day and in the middle of the day there's no way you can go at full speed right too because you have people turning so you slow down while they're turning you get stopped at traffic lights Etc so you're the faster you go the more you're just switching between break and accelerator and then I'm not going to go into this but I just wanted to point out that there are laws related to speed limits and how to change them uh and you know somebody who is a lawyer can figure this all out but I know that Worcester was the latest City that just earlier this month changed the Citywide speed limit to 25 miles hour and they did it by unanimous vote of their city council and they they followed Westfield doing that and and and I think in 2017 Boston and and Springfield did it as well so there is a process that involve the legislature and of course Tom meeting is our legislature now whether we need to do that or not I you know let somebody decide but you know the process could be to take it to a vote in town meeting and then because it's a state highway it would then have have to be also approved by the uh State Department of Highways so point being that there is a a legal process then the second part of The Proposal is to add two or three crosswalks in the town center and uh what I mean is between the traffic lights I know there are crosswalks at the traffic lights but it's a long way if you're going from the summer house across to the the shop you're not going to walk you know an extra half mile or more down to the traffic light and back and there's really no reasonable way to walk across when traffic is going 35 40 45 miles an hour um scroll down it can be as as cheap and as simple as painting on a crosswalk and here's an example from Lee they have a kind of a brick red the color is gone and with white lines outlining it which stands out very clearly I know you can do it a lot more expensively and you know lay in Brick and whatever but they do it there and even in Stockbridge uh have nice green crosswalks and they stand out nicely screw on down you can also use flexible traffic delineators these are things like a crosswalk delineator that will you know Flex it you run over it won't damage it they're also easy to remove for snow plowing or braids or whatever reason and you could also scroll a little bit more use some poles and here's an example it's it's you can't really see it in black and white but it could stand out quite boldly and it also takes away the the idea that this is just a super highway going through the middle of town the Traffic Engineers talk about Edge friction which is something you want to get rid of on a highway but you want to have certain amount of that in town because it's a signal to slow down and go to the next slide because there are two modes of driving and we all do it there's full attention mode which you do where there's narrow streets lots of shops turning cars pedestrians and bicycles you're in full attention you're looking paying attention and then there's a partial autopilot when you're on a highway and you're you're reading listening to the radio you're you're kind of in an autopilot mode we don't want people going through town in autopilot makes a lot more dangerous uh scoll on down to the next so here's a summary of the pros and cons is as I see it maybe you can come up with others but you Pros are safer for the D drivers and pedestrians better for the Town Center businesses easier to turn on the College Highway special El turns reduction in traffic noise level both in engine noise and tire noise when traffic goes slower makes it more pleasant calm or less stressful Driving Experience want PE want traffic calm down I have neighbors that say they avoid going through South B it's they're older oh that's scary to drive down through there people go so fast and that Middle Lane is tricky and you don't want people to avoid Our Town Center um had no one person who had a business since they moved it um from there but they were right near the top of the hill and in middle of southw and said they were terrified sometimes with the speed those cars would come over the hill and there's a limited sight view over the center of course much easier to walk across College Highway and it's an important start for our master plan goals and know our master plan says 2040 but we don't want to wait till 2040 we want to the the concept is to find the easiest and simplest things do them right away then go on and find the next easiest and simple things and I know that there you know some of the things brought up we we voted on it in our economic development on the presentation unanimously endorsed it uh the only question is well maybe we should extend it even further but I purposely for the purpose of Economic Development limited to that Center and and maybe separate proposals if there are other areas you don't want to make it so big that it's hard to do so and the only con I could think of is it might add 14 seconds to your drive time so that's it and uh so the the idea is to throw it out for and I I'll say that I talked informally to Kirk Sanders about some of the efforts he's had in the past working with trying to get speed limits changed on College highways you know he was polic been for 40 years in sou uh he said he used to have trouble they were resistant but he thinks maybe the guy that was so resistant has gone plus I think the whole environment has changed yet that was eight nine years ago so it's worth trying again even if you know we found there were some difficulties in the past you know the difference between us and Westfield is that they maintain their part of College Highway and state does ours so that's why you know we have a little less leverage there but I think it's you know especially if we had a town vote I can't see them saying no we're going to make you go faster any any questions well they're all they're obviously all good things I don't know about caless stressful Driving Experience my experience with people on the roads makes it worse but more impatient um you know it's one of the things I actually when I started bringing some of my goals to Nicole um actually and I spoke with Randy about it we definitely need some sort of crosswalks in the college Highway area um when I first looked at ideas just for the cross walks you know summer house was I actually watched what made brought it to my attention is I forget where I was and I saw this family with their kids trying to run across the street and you know like you said one of the businesses you know I know a lot of folks they've told me they won't go to certain ones in the morning like you said because you can't turn left because you can't you can't trust what's coming over the hill you can't see it so you know there'd be some definitely some stuff that's got to be done um Chief banish you you when you heard the you said you reached out I heard you reach out to the state today I did reach out to state do um I mean I'll address first your crosswalks the engineer did say all those now have to be come so you want to come up so everybody can hear better talk louder talk that come on up front and center hear me now hear can hear you but you have microphones in here we do can everybody hear me okay sure uh so yeah so starting with the crosswalks I did reach out to B Lang he's one of the engineers over at mot he said it's not as cheap and easy as paint obviously it all has to be engineered um everything has to be ADA Compliant actually looked a little bit closer at the picture that was presented and the very top sidewalk goes right into a curb on both sides there's no no curb out there uh aside from that um I'll just give you the email response I got from them uh good morning Chief detaches a mass do speed zoning manual any changes to the speed will need to be approved by mass do per chapter 98 uh since this is a state-owned Highway we will do a study and make any changes as appropriate so that was his response he was actually emailed a copy of this so I think the states made it pretty apparent that it's their Road it's their decision um I mean I'm not going to get into whether it's appropriate or not at this point obviously we've got to deal with with the state to begin with so what they say as far as the pro I mean like I said I know what you're dealing with um no you're talking you know sign signals the whole nine yards unfortunately so they didn't give me a price I didn't ask for a price my question that would be what were they resistant to that idea not not so much the speed I think he said they would be hard pressed as far as the crosswalks that's too yeah I mean you got to remember this road was re-engineered Randon by chance Randy do you recall how long ago that College Highway was rebuilt and through the center yeah yeah it was um around 2010 2011 time frame okay and at that point they looked at obviously speed limits they had looked at crosswalks they had looked at everything up through the center so you know could they go back and look again yeah absolutely I don't know if where we are now as opposed to that it's going to Warrant it for them but you know it's worth a phone call or an email big on the road diets lately quick course I have I have been after him to uh basically redo all the lines and I've been waiting for I don't know a year and a half at this point well thank you for the inut she sure Greg I just think it's worth hard and uh yeah and the I'm just the reason I said as simple as pain is because I see it in other towns and I and and they're on you know in Lee it's Route 20 Federal Highway and yeah I understand the curbs and I repositioned it in my latest version so it did not go into a curve and and you would have to change some of the you maybe have to have oneway entrances and exits to limit the turning points which might be better anyway might be saf I mean I grew up here I can remember trying to get out of what was the old post office at the time which is a bike shop yeah and you can only make a right turn on the Saturday it was brutal down there yeah and and if it could help to have a town vote might be harder for them to resist the will of the people I have talked to people for couple years about this and I've not yet encountered somebody who was against it I think a couple things one is there is a process and Randy can probably come in at the end here it was it's fairly recent legislation where you can petition masked off um to reevaluate and I think the alluded to that that process because we had talked about actually South College Highway where the speed limit is 50 to the state line about taking that down a notch or two um but I think part of the problem with College Highway is a the natural topography there that you got to be really careful we're going to put a cross rock at any speed yeah because of the sight distances you know using just north of where you had one of those crosswalks Mark at that uh the church entry and exit it's a really bad spot roughs and I would say I would not recomend any cross blocks until we change the speed but I think one of the things that you did allude to and I it it it's a point worth bringing up is the surrounding what I think you call it Edge noise or Edge welled friction Edge friction so a few years ago maybe more than a few now there was actually a pretty active group in town that um locally was called the pretty committee and their idea was to kind of beautify or try to spruce up that Center corter I.E plantings benches as they came through with the reconstruction College Highway great idea and it would have created that surface friction which would have been a natural at least keep people closer to the speed limit then you know the average speed is usually at or above what is the speed limit there um unless Ernie's working than it's at or below um but um there was Zero support at the time zero support from the businesses in the town of Southwick to take responsibility and ownership of that whether it was a matter of watering the plants dusting off the benches didn't matter no not a business owner up and down College Highway where those sidewalks were going were interested in the upkeep and maintenance of that infrastructure because I agree with you I think that the road friction would help you in reducing speeds along college high and also anecdotally and I don't have any data to prove it during the week I think the weekend traffic in the town of Southwick is much tougher to get in and out of places along College Highway than it is say on a weekday morning when people are going to and from work or even at lunch hour when people are going to and from restaurants or other businesses in town it's Saturday morning is Peak traffic in the town of sou again it's anecdotal right I just from being out and about I commute through there every day twice a day and usually out and about on the weekends but um that's just my take on it from from what I read from the proposal and you know it might be worth taking taking a look at that from um as EDC or or working with the businesses that you know that have you know say what can we do about the the speed on College Highway well part of it might be some of this either rearching some of the entrances and exits to these parking lots to be more conducive to turning turning motions and or adding things at the edge of the sidewalks without invading the sidewalk because of HC axis and stuff but to see If it creates some of that friction which will be a natural calming effect on the traffic through the C I even saw a study just a few days ago that studied bike Lanes with and without it slowed the traffic down and made it safer you're 100% right about the edge friction I I don't know if I agree with you or not yet I haven't really thought it all the way through about taking the speed limits down and what's the impact on Commerce and and so on and so forth but um just from you know I completely agree about the edge friction but I I think we should have some more dialogue around you know what could be done to kind of narrow that part because it does get wide especially right through the center between Shell's and the and Depot Street it's fairly wide of open expanse with Paving on both sides you know there's not a lot of trees or Street trees or Shrubbery or benches or anything that would cause that to yeah and I personally think that that appearance that edge friction whatever you want to call it is more important than the speed post I don't disagree with you at all it sends a signal I think it's premature to do one thing only because it's easy without knowing what the end result is going to be and I don't mean the end result of speed limits what's the end result of all those master plan goals this might be quick and dirty but does it fit in what the total plan is going to be and are we going to regret jumping to do this one thing without knowing any of the other things that are going to come into play what what's your end what's your endgame well it's it's better to do little things partly because if they don't work you can back off them you get this whole big Master thing and implement it all at once back down eight chapters with tasks and recommendations by eight with eight different views all eight of them cannot go out and do their easiest things without a and this is why we need master plan implementation committee something has to coordinate even the easy stuff into the big picture that's my take uh I ow Randy to chime in on what I alluded to at the beginning about what was the process I know we had discussed it on this board not a year ago about the process the petition Mass do to look at speed limits I just some want to Short Change ran yeah I I can try so there is a process like everything else with with government right um so if do gets involved they would first start with a with a traffic study and and I think one of the indicators is going to look at any if there's any crash or crash history on this road um and that'll dictate whether they they they recommend that they're a crosswatch here or not that's the first step I mean if you want to pursue this I you know we certainly got to start with DOT um but I I I I will say that um if they are looking if they do allow crosswalk it's not going to be as simple as paint they're going to to want to have some kind of a crosswalk signalization um right now do is really pushing these it's called rectangular rapid Flash beacons that's a system we have on Kuman Road by the rail tra Crossing I'm certain that would be at a minimum that would be required any Crossing that helps and that's it's a question is it a full bone light instead of a crosswalk you I think you got to crawl I I think it's not a bad idea I think it's the idea is of trying to increase I think this the side friction is the is the right answer to me rather than just taking down the speed limits because I think you're not going to be able to just like any other Road where they have the design speed the actual speed and the posted speed and sometimes they don't have anything to do with each other right so you know South College Highway is probably engineered for north of 50 it's posted at 50 I don't know what the average speed is in there but people are probably at it or above it and if you brought it down you know a couple miles an hour to 45 or 40 would it lower the speed limit to closer to designs you know that's the type of thing um as far as you know and what's the end result of you know for this they may have some unintended consequence with with flow of traffic through College Highway and especially weekdays and and in the afternoons when there's not a ton of traffic there but um I think that there's opportunities to make that place look better bring and it it it'll bring the features closer to the road which would have a natural calming effect that's that's just my opinion well you know I've always said I'll talk about anything so we started talking about it 100% that'll proba along all right thank you Greg thanks Greg thank you Chief thank you thank you Randy oh yes sorry Randy all right new business Item B discussion and vote for reduction in first week of early voting I have to say Bas on um she is keeping statistics because she has to send reports into the state and we are mandated to have these early voting hours um and it was consistent with the last four years that was the same voting hours so she was just keeping it pretty consistent to stay at 75% and not reduce all the way down to 50% but it does have to be a voted Ford and she was she is keeping track of all of this she has to as I said to you before there was a question whether we were going to have early voting were required right was the mail in that she was asking about in town I think it was mailing for the local the local okay when we and and early voting hours for the local and we we already I think separate from this because that was more about you know people have more than ample opportunity to cast a ballot it was just do we want to have early voting hours in May for the local I think is what that was about okay go when we need a motion to approve these hours for early voting correct I will make that motion you make that motion I'll second the motion roll call vote Jason Peron I I Doug m i item C is discussion and vote for intermunicipal agreement regarding the drainage system at seld built on Massachusetts land Randy so I met with uh Southfield DPW director the Corbett a couple weeks ago on site as you know there was um issue that came to head over the summer with some drainage and property disputes on South pond so as it turns out the drainer system that seld installed a couple year um I'm not sure maybe seven eight years ago I believe is uh was actually I guess is is within Massachusetts I think we can probably settle the dispute where the property line is so that comes to a point well now there's a system in place who's going to maintain it so I met with Lee Corbett he said sopio has no issues maintaining that system uh but I think it' be prudent to put that in um into a formal agreement between the two towns um Lee said that would not be an issue with him and as I started looking into it it's not Crystal Clear um the town the town has has no property in that area uh the area where the drainage was installed is is on the the the town not the town but the beach Association property I believe which the town has no interest in so the way I see it I think in order to kind of clear our our end of it is to um put forth anou between the two towns and basically let let Suffield deal with any RightWay issues that need to be dealt with uh to obtain the permission from the land owner to maintain that system in perpetuity so if that works on your end I'll P continue to pursue that with with Suffield I did want um Ben foil or whoever his land use expert is to look at this and I don't believe he has so I would request that they look at that and make sure that's all it needs to be if it blows up and floods people or send stuff way if it ends up going sending stuff into the lake whose problem is it it's a little bit bigger than just where it sits it's what happens if it gets contaminated to me so I would like to have also look at that have um have been whoever the land re represented is he had wind of it we just never made it a PRI we never went back to him and said look at this further so I would like him to too this is the piece we saw this summer right yes it is yeah yes it is and it still wasn't known what was where chapter S we turn them into the concom they do all this work without a notice of intent or nothing certainly within the riverfront 100% um secondly we probably should ask to have a member on their Conservation Commission as a result of this m King about the second part but seriously though that it was pretty obvious that that drainage structure well wasn't it wasn't exactly obvious but it was pretty obvious that it was in the Commonwealth yeah and it's 50 ft at the end of a driveway and Daylights at the waterfront it's a pretty interesting piece of structure and uh I I thought the same thing when I first saw it I'm like if that's in the Commonwealth they did that completely unpermitted work without any notice to the Conservation Commission in the Commonwealth and this is why Council should look at for those reasons conservation issues on it as well and I don't know what that structure underneath if it has a sump or if it has I idea I think because they can't find it so let the smarter folks have a look at that then that car that over thank you all right ry's probably not gonna go too far item D discussion vote this the year 25 snowplow contractor rates so I I sent you a letter uh asking to uh consider a couple changes to our snowplow rates this year uh first is a increase in our hourly rate uh the increase of $10 per hour uh in addition to that I'd like to explore a like a sign on bonus uh this is something that a lot of towns do as an incentive to keep maintain their contractors a lot of them have expressed the concern of the rising costs of insurance particular um that it's you know no longer feasible or or economically viable for them to continue plowing for our municipalities last couple years there has not been a lot of snow so the sign on bonus would give them a little bit of a a buffer uh insurance I guess if you call it that they'll get at least uh some of the money that they put forth to obtain the insurance at the beginning of the snow season I did reach out to a couple of our local neighbors to kind of get an idea where are with their plow rates um it's not in this letter but I got some information from Westfield this morning uh their rates are going up $15 an hour over last year uh just to compare to where we're at they their their light duty truck which is comparable to what we pay for our our trucks uh is going up to $140 per hour um I have not heard from agam yet but I believe I do know that they are exploring a sign on bonus this year something they have not halfed in the past and um I know Springfield increase their sign on B bonus up to $1,000 do this year so what I'm what I've proposed for you today is H what I think is a minimum that we need to consider to remain competitive with our with our neighboring communities the sign on bonus Randy I I'm going to speak for myself I'm not opposed to that actually I what I do on the side do this down sou in Connecticut with my machine and a lot of places now that you sign a contract and it doesn't matter if it snows or not so um you sign on bonus and that's that's what a lot of people are doing because there's no guarantee you're going to make any money dropping off your machine and leaving it there because of the way the winters have been so a lot I can understand where you're coming from as far as retaining are snowplow operators um I you know I'm not opposed to what you're proposing but I'm want of three I kind of am you am what kind of opposed to it you and I can opposite it's a contract they're signing up for that's the risk of a contract I know right I just it's here Bard and blizzard and blizzard and blizzards and we're not going to cough up anym at the end either if they have to come out three more times well well we will we will but I think the way this is written is kind of covers the insurance right I think the Hedge has always been if you're as a snowplow um contractor is you have to buy insurance going into the season if it doesn't snow you lose if it snows a lot you win uh the last couple of years have been miserable kind of for the snowplow guys um because there's not enough storms to call them out often enough to to really make money um so some of the some of the contractors have been hesitant in fact you know I think we had one contractor bail on us at the first storm they didn't even show because of insurance yeah because of insurance so this per performance bonus if you will is is kind of if they if we pay that it kind of helps them with that insurance payment up front now if it snows twice a week for the entire winter they're going to get an extra you know $750 a truck for the season plus the hourly rate that when we call them in they're going to come in and they're going to get paid for that time too it does take some of the risk it Dr risks the insurance payment for the snowfall operat because historically it's always been a bit of a a bit of a a gamble by the snow PL operator and they pray for snow they pay their money and it's gone up every year on the insurance side um and then if it snows a lot at some point they break even and start making money if it doesn't snow a lot they never cross break even that's that's the long and short of it so that I and Randy you know I think that's what you're alluding to here is the $750 is a sign on an attendance bonus is and I don't know when you're going to pay that would you pay it at the end of the season um but it would it would help them defay the initial cost of insurance that they have to get and and lowers the point at which they break even as a plow operator I I understand that but whose risk is it is it the taxpayer's risk or is it the business own RIS you also POS a risk if nobody wants to sign out that's the drisking part right so the risk is today I mean we look at um it is the taxpayers is is Der risking the snowplow operator but it's also making the roads passable in a timely fashion when it does snow because if we can't recruit operators it's going to take just that much longer with the operators that we do get to clear the roads a prime example of it was last year look at there was sign boards all over 50 7 they couldn't get they couldn't the state can't it's a little bit different there because the problem there is how long you wait to get paid for the state so um but it is a problem honestly the contractor I worked aside for when he told me I said you didn't have a locked in contract on this what do you I'm GNA be honest that out of your mind right and uh so you know that's the way it's going I mean it's going that route to the point where you there's the P like Doug said that the the risk is there if I'm going to leave a 50 60 70 $100,000 machine there and I don't get to use it I've now I lost completely lost and then we get one big giant storm you know that's a two-day storm it it's worth it for them but and and we you know we uh we always try to make you know be competitive to other communities where you know the plow guys could go to another Community whether it's you know North East or even south of us right we've been lucky and and you know kudos to the folks that have done work in our town for for years and years and years um you know last year was a good example though for me um that first storm we had in November everyone thought we're were going to have a great winter turn out to be a bust after that but one of the main contractors yeah they were also the folks that were supposed to maintain the public safety complex um including the police fire station so the town had to Marsh their own resources and and commit our equipment um to keep the firehouse and the police station open and at the expense of well we had to give up you had it was done at the expense of the other roads on those routes by the by the town they're out then you're paying overtime for them anyways correct well we like to stay competitive and you know we compare to Westfield and agam we compared to Westfield and awam last year and we raised ours and their stayed the same no those those rates are from last year I I didn't have agam has not made a decision yet and Westfield gave me their rates today which I which I gave you so I think that we are we are we need to be competitive with our neighboring communities and question to answer D's question the bonus would be paid at the end of the season these are the same rates in your letter from last year that they had for 22 and 20 year 22 to 23 and then this year is 23 to 24 I understand you just got their 20 five but in your letter last year they're exactly the same so we went up to meet them and they didn't change so we are competitive until they just changed this year they're going to change this year now I'm just one I I just where are we going to come up with that money now because we're raising a lot of stuff and hiring a lot of people nobody wants to spend where are we going to get it what are we raising no we do have free cash and it's it's s it's I know where that comes from I I understand where it comes from I'm talking about the whole bucket not I get it which pocket this comes from I'm not I get I get to your side of it as well but it's the cost of doing businesses they they hate to put it that way if everybody else you know they're they're not gonna they're not going to come if they don't if I can go next door and make $30 well $15 an hour more over there only so many they can hire too until they're saturated with drivers and then nobody's going to make any money because they're only on the road for four not eight because there's so many of them I know that's why they lock in these Randy do you know what on the insurance for these is it per truck or does each company buy a policy amongst for the whole um for the whole company uh I I'd imagine most of these it's bu they have if it's a company like um like like uh Mark's Property Services you know they they're a landcaping company they probably they in their insurance they have a an add-on or Rider to incorporate to include snow plowing that's my guess but I'm not sure I'm not positive I think that would be a good question to ask because instead of a you know a per truck deal maybe it is you know if it's to Dr risk and they're making an invest in that Rider it's not meant to I understand the premise to drisk this for some of the operators and you know maintain a competitive rate but perhaps it might be more Equitable rather than on a per truck basis it should be more in line with what the policy is that they're buying and so and I don't know the answer so maybe we could ask you to come back next week and say hey I I did look this I talked to Mark and I talked to somebody else and you know they pay $10,000 for the policy for the year you know for the snowplow Rider if they have two trucks or four trucks it doesn't matter but if they come back and say no it's you know $2,500 a truck per per year well that might might impact our decision- making process on this in and then in talking about this dollar amount I can reach out and ask that's fine what does their extra insurance cover what does it cover it cover uh automobile liability which I think is at two at $2 million per currence it's written into our into our um contract those are our rules that we make them deliver that policy with us as an additional named ins shurt for them to operate on our row as a contract and what would it cost if we put them as named Insurance on our and we charge them for what that is I don't know about that is that an option well it doesn't sound like we're going to come to a consensus this evening we're discussing options option that that's if we you know something we need to look into I don't know yeah we have to call them special I guess but Mr mowan I i' I'd be inclined to go what Mr mowan said get some do a little bit more research and make sure it's wor asking and then uh you know that's fine absolutely we will Randy can you just do the more research for us and then I'll have M if you want look into it and see if that's even a possibility Y and and just so you know I I have an answer on the insurance so we ask for $300,000 of general liability and a million dollar of Auto liability and the town of South shall be named additionally insured and that's that's I believe standard of other communities I've seen the same language all right so I guess we're going to do some more research and bring it back for the next meeting up all righty all right item D discussion and vote on the HCA approval this should be pretty simple now there's a couple of open questions in it that we need to just fill in the blanks firmly I think I assume you've all gone through it numerous times as well and it is for the most part the CCC model except for as I said I threw in a few little other secure words for the protection of the town and [Music] and M in col can I ask a question while you're looking sure you can are we in agreement as a board that we're not even going to try to negotiate an impact B I am correct you are in agreement or I'm I'm in agreement correct okay the problem the impact Fe has made made it yeah correct and the you know all right so the first question is on page eight of this in the Box other occurring generally occurring fees is there anything blaring that I've met I did throw in any other that may be assessed in the future or in the future but is there anything LED what's that you said you had your this eight right this one yeah in the Box I think you cover yourself with the any other local fees generally assessed Upon A similarly situated and just below that um in the event the company ceases operations etc etc um those skis will be due within 30 days other towns on the gamit 30 suitable to everybody I think doesn't really much matter to be honest if they go out of business be chasing the money forever anyway so you could make it five days or days I have no problem with changing that on page nine uh how many years do we want this initial agreement to be the other towns I looked at run from 357 I don't know that we even have the ability to go much beyond that but I would say three that' be that's what I have plugged in three is fine with me okay um I do need to clean up references in this document they didn't come out of this um I just inserted where I got some things for your information and um advanced notice on page 10 if they're going to discontinue advanced notice again if they just close the door they close the doors but 90 days suitable to everybody or do you want longer that's f as far forecast that you're going to close unless you lost your lease yeah something like that it could be okay and then finally um who is going to sign this is it the select board or is it the C the select that's what I thought okay and um can I just reminds me later to ask you about email addresses for General mailboxes if you make a note of that please and then that is all we need to answer and then if there's no more discussion or questions on it I think we're good we can vote to get a today no more questions no more questions to drag this okay I'll make a motion to adopt this version of the host Community agreement and um that's one motion second roll call vote Jason prone I I and then second question is whom is going to do the negotiation does this does Nicole take that on and come back to us if there's any modifications from the other side you did one in the past but somebody yeah how did that go we had a designated member of the select board um in cooperation with Town Council and the CAO okay so i' make a motion to have you do it all right I'll second can I second roll call Jason I all right that's done I will get a clean copy to Margaret to have everybody finalize or I'll give her this marked up with just those few changes and then you can get that ready to sign right sure there so topic e discussion and vote on North Pond task force recommendations okay you all got that lengthy documents so uh first I want to thank the uh members who participated on this everybody did um you know came ready to put stuff to paper and we gave assignments out to people and they came back with the stuff um in good form in good time and we were able to do this just in two meetings um we haven't disbanded officially yet because we may have come back with what's going on today um but basically we um are addressing the parking area and uh the street parking the restoration of the area and how that should happen how it should be closed off where it should be closed off the signage in the parking lot with all the rules signage in the streets signage within the conservation area um we proposed a bylaw which you have a pretty complete draft of that will help with enforcement of the rules that are then posted and various ways and places we can post those rules besides just on the property and um some consideration on funding and I have some updates on the funding when you get to that so um I I think we are all we were all pretty much in agreement these are the required steps whether it's in this minute detail some of it needs more detail I would imagine we would if we choose to pursue the comprehensive bylaw we would have another subcommittee to clean that narrow that up and get other parties involved to review it I did review it with others but I assume that's how we would go on that [Music] so I you've all read all of that I'm reviewing it again I want to thank the folks that served on that task force and came back rather quickly whether they were and folks that even attended the meetings and and were able to chime in I mean there was some I I heard there was some great input from all around on that and how we can try to address you know some of the issues that were going up there and how we can restore that property and have it utilized how the CR intended it and the voters of the town of Southwick uh envisioned it being used um if frankly while he's looking the only thing that I had um just as a commentary was that I heard um one that seem like an awful lot of no far cons signs but um I get it there's people smarter than I have the rules on how far apart those are supposed to be but I'd like if if that probably has to be advertised and probably have to have a public hearing on it but I I did want to get out there and maybe as part of the notice that maybe we date limit that by month for that so that we can enable folks to because that does get used for other purposes at certain months of the year that have never been a problem it's never been on my radar till someone actually said it to me on South Long a one of the options is it isn't in here and we talked about it afterward one of the options is um to reduce the the length of span that those signs are that the no the street parking is reduce the span that that is um and Randy said he could probably knock off maybe 70 signs if we do that and cut the budget on that to like $99,000 if we did did I put in the plan B fewer on Street on South longard and then just no resident parking only on every side stream the other option Chief vanish said we could do is put those temporary signs up every year sure good well at least a portion of them yeah but I know that there's um someone had mentioned to me and more than one person mentioned that um that in hunting season that there's often a need for parking on South longard in those mornings and well I didn't want I'm not trying to get in the way of that at all and I don't want that being perceived as such this was really to if we're cut that parking lot down with the discussion which is the best idea had on this I think I even mentioned to the north the primary example s side streets is Westfield State College they have the same type of thing where between this period this period these hours and these hours you need a sticker I I'm all for what you're saying Mr M um I wouldn't want to probably completely ban that all year long year round because we know when the problem time is it's I'm well like they don't need to go the entire span and they can go just before that and then during the season that it's necessary then the temporary signs go up further down that would be yeah this is a big picture this is for us to decide what the plan is tonight this is a bigger picture with with those options to discuss and you know if there's anything in here that as a board we say is off the table then that narrows down the things to be done but um well I do want to talk about what is it that section what are you looking for snow vehicles and Recreation vehicles I want more clarification on that on it's on I where are you talking we have traffic parking motorized vehicle regulation it would be B oh you're on the bylaw yeah this is something we want to talk about every what page are you at what is it uh what what section are you it would be section dou x-8 yeah traffic parking motorization it would be such just just so people know what we're talking about the bylaw that is being proposed here is a comprehensive bylaw that um would be Parks beaches conservation and preservation areas bylaw which would cover all all of our current and any future Town owned and managed properties so these are a global it's not specific to an area it was thought about all of the areas and future areas we might have and problems um so in section8 um what clarification do you I'm right say it I'm opposed to it everything else I'm fine with Express where expressly designated and permitted no not section B though except on Trails marked and desolated for you for all publicly held properties I'm not that one isn't good for me that is already that's why the note is in there that is Mass General Law chapter 90b section 26 well chapter 90b section 26 is a pain I can tell you that as a for it's all well you have an issue with the state don't me yeah don't get me going on off-road vehicle access with the state of massach that's why it's there so um I understand what you're saying I just I'm going to say my heart where my heart stays I'm I'm against that one just gonna say well that's not with the that's not with the town B that is with the state this is just repeating what the state is I get it and this is on the town owned I get it Parks beaches I'm I get it I'm just gonna say okay where do I stand on that one okay everything else I'm fine with okay uh one thing I think I did omit in the signage was also perhaps a contribution to no trespassing signs on the neighbors properties bordering our problem areas and um we did talk about in a different meeting some public education on trespass laws which could also benefit the situation yeah the situation I'm talking to what I just don't want to I said I'm just as a former recreator in this well I'm still a recreator in this town of the motorized persuasion I'm just that's we're not making decis personal preferences I'm just saying I'm personally opposed to that so I want to make that one point of be clear okay I mean I'm again I'm one of three so again in that comprehensive V there's a couple of insertions of notes and questions to consider but again that would be with a a different um task force or subcommittee yeah this is going to have to come back but I think yeah the whole point of this and Jay um Mr prone I I understand where you're coming from I think but the whole point of this is this is very preliminary this would have to come back to a group and then come back in front of this board for a hearing um but the whole the whole um point of having a bylaw was that I think this whole this situation and others have identified a weak point in the town code and enforcement there too and the ability of anyone to enforced rules and regulations as po you know posted or not posted or you know something on a we page and you know somebody says hey you can't do that where does it say that there's no sign it's on a web page somewhere so this this would give you the ability to to post some of those rules and and and the ability to enforce them by whether it's um the police department or the sheriff's deputies or um or anyone else for that matter if we deputize them to do it right and like it's in that bive giving you some references where that came from some of it is Mass General law some of it is um PD Outreach to law enforcement sources um I pulled some parts from our existing sort of related bylaws and Chang the language a little bit like noise comes from the dog barking bylaw we already have and I just massaged it to fit this situation I complete with everything it's just I'm gonna say philosophically no and I think you take a look at some of the properties that we have and perhaps there is an opport whether and you know I don't know if the piece we was that was mentioned in public comment tonight is appropriate as part of a CR to allow you know snowmobiles or something if if the there's the right amount of snow and the land is conducive and it's not you know I'm just I'm just saying you know but that's perfect example of a future prop a hypothetical example of that's not your problem that's our problem well right because that's going to be who who's going to end up owning that Lee the historic soet Society so it would not be our problem it wouldn't even be subject to these rules because it wouldn't be a town property unless they convey it to the town later after it's pain in the Dy and ultimately I want to see this do exact I mean I think everybody knows no I get WR I want to see this do exactly what we envision for this whole thing I just you know that's all I said I said but overall it's fully support again this task force looked at this not not with any personal likes or dislikes to the task it was public safety preservation of the area thinking about all the other properties where people may migrate to if we close down on this one because that's a consideration too um and that's where we got on this I know all about migrating from different places and I don't know what else you got other questions in it where do we want to take now a wider look at this make sure it's I'm okay with that so how do we proceed iess have it worked over right you got to make sure everything's by who again these are recommendations brought to the select board what is the select board going to recommend and how are we going to do that well you have multiple land owners if you will that are in that are impacted I notic you mentioned you know conservation certainly involved Park and wreck is involved um we're tangentially involved right but it's really going to be up to the the bylaw itself and as far as the remediation for the piece on on uh the North Pond Conservation Area I think really the some of the the suggestions about the restoration activities are I'm not in position to comment other than they look solid to me I was a big believer from the very beginning that just reducing down that parking lot and getting you know and and implementing some common sense parking rules up and down south longard in that neighborhood will go a long way I appreciate the fact that other people looked at that as as you if you do that you may move the problem to other areas in town so good now we've got this bylaw here with rules and regulations address that they don't all have the water right now that draws people but well but I mean you've got a future future water park at Wally Park you've got the gorge there's other places in town where people and we saw it even just to our uh friendly City to the south of us where there was some large Gatherings right in Suffield on private property that were you know that were were an issue later in the summer um so I think this is a step in the right direction I think we just got to keep moving ahead and you know I think from what I read I think Randy or somebody had come up with some preliminary designs to to reduce the parking lot and with public safety's concurrence you know what I don't know what we need to do in order to implement that well that's um I mean next week do you want to come back and vote on yes we want to do this we want to do this let's do this I'm fine with that absolutely me all right I may have found us a gate to block the ATV access I spied one in the woods somewhere I'm going to go see if I can get it so that'll cut make sure it's not a private property cut the budget down a little bit um but then anything that we say we're going to do we need to find some money to do it as well so okay we'll bring it back and uh get creative on how we can find some money to to then BR it back for next meeting all right um and I will share I will share this with Conservation Park and W and uh he and fire already have it oh um anybody else we think of then good right next item item F other new business I have none I have no other new business I got an easy one for you Mr chairman go ahead Sir Mr Neil Parkin is going to be visiting the town of Southwick on the 28th of October who is Neil Parker I I'm glad you asked so he is on the city council basically of south of England um and he will be visiting uh former moderator of putam um Mr Parkin was very nice to send some greetings and some stuff to us and we had a couple of Zoom calls during covid and he sent him and the entire Council sent greetings to us when we had our 250th a couple of years ago um and I just wanted to let you know that Mr Perkin will be in the town of souck on the 28th and I did extend an offer to host um have one or more of us attend some kind of brief meeting here at Town Hall and perhaps a quick tour of of our town hall and then um to create a certificate for Mr going to join us for our I hope not I hope not I hope he has better things to do um but he's on the adder and Worthing councils um Adder adur but I did uh it's the council at overseas South England okay yeah that' be definely interesting and fun yeah so I just wanted bring it to your attention and certainly would welcome Mr Perkin the town um my other item is and it's funny that you brought it up tonight because I had it on my list of things uh our town emails are a little bit inconsistent and I'd like to see them made more consistent to Aid in Communications with citizens that want to reach anyone in the in the town hall so generally most of our emails is first initial last name at South ma.gov but there's some Curious ones that are not so I propose or suggest that the it folks look at redoing some emails of people to to be that to that standard but if there's anything else that we want to have that's great you can just Alias it to another person so if you wanted to have one that that's what I wanted to talk about wasas SB admin which was one I saw tonight or like there's one for semetery great going to email the cemetery type it to cemetery but it goes to whoever it is now with the change over for example at DPW is a recent uh retirement that person whoever comes into that role should have their first name last initials and we could always forward DPW to someone else but you can have those as aases but at least it provides some consistency to folks just yeah that person always confused me well especially if they wore multiple hats right it got a even more confusing but you know and and um and that also happens you know you may have some some who's on more than one board but their email is this and it it does look a little confusing this way they can have that email and you know uh you know you can use Miss Anderson as an example right but you know because she was put l at this but she's not there anymore now you got to change all your documents if you just say select board admin whoever it is gets that alas pointed to their it just copies to their specific even right so easy but that was exactly where I was going all right new business I was gonna say do you have some new business I do I have one piece of business um as we were you know as I as I've been going to different meetings and talking to the public and talking to um you know basically our seniors or or some of the housing authorities um public transportation was a big issue so we had reached out to pbta um to see that do we have public transportation and we do not in this rural area uh pbta is willing to F they want to apply for a grant um with fera who we use here in town now and um Franken Regional Transit Authority and um they would connect they would uh have a new route in town um Southwick to grocery stores and medical providers in Westfield and Northampton uh but they need a letter of support from the board that to go with their their Grant um application so if you are inclined to support this endeavor of pvta then they would need an executed letter of support which I have if you are or because the people that have don't have that access and that are in their transportation modes you know I would definitely want to see The Roots where they're going to go and I wouldn't have a problem with it personally I'm absolutely in support of it it's on page something or other in here of the master plan as to contact P ta to see if we can get that route going absolutely support that and even if we only do it for a year if they work it out for a year that's with limited runs and see how it goes Tri you this exactly what I said to Nicole y Mr youve said your piece I'm good okay do we just just need a letter yeah you just have to sign a letter we need a motion or I think a motion to uh have you sign a letter of support make a motion to have Jason sign a letter of support for a grant application by pbta very trial route I'll second the motion roll call vote Jason Pon I dou Mogan F stain naen any new business no sir all right old business topic a appointments boards and commissions interview appoint list attached anyone why is that always me I'm sure you took that on a while back today we are going to appoint the cultural Council who are now in agreement with us on what their terms are and in agreement with the Town Clerk and with the state so and we have a couple of Corrections to priors so we are going to just restate what those are beginning with Steve binski he was reappointed last year to 10923 uh I'm sorry 10923 to 9125 a really wonky term he is now his term is now going to expire 63026 as it should have been last we time we met we appointed Sabrina poer she is actually filling the remaining term of a resignation so her term is now going to end 63026 we are going to appoint Ellen Miles reappoint Ellen Miles to serve her next term 7124 to 6327 we are going to correct Bruce culus his term is expiring 63025 Cynthia an Warner we are correcting her term to 63025 and those two were just entered incorrectly into the onboarding we are going to retroactively reappoint Barbara Westcott from 7123 to expire 63026 she should have been on last year's list and was somehow committed we are reappointing currently Susan pansky 7124 to 6327 and then missing completely from the onboarding is Pat McMahon we are retroactively appointing her as well 7123 to 63025 that completes the cultural Council and Inn I'll second that motion thank you roll call vote Jason Peron I vanil I Doug mlin yes the other one we need to still look at is like management we attempted to correct those last year um somehow the town clerk misinterpreted what those Corrections were so I have to resync those and next time we meet I will have that like this okay who's on first all right topic B Sor we have one more we have the planning board but they're not on there huh didn't we have to fix LPC did we leave off Sabrina poer from Le oh yes we did so i' make a motion to appoint Sabrina perer to the local emergency planning committee I think it was an Inver it just wasn't read out Mission during our appointment process probably three weeks ago thank you I'll second that sorry roll call vot Jason I than Doug M yes constition yeah her role as conservation no no no we oh we didn't do that yet we don't they're not on the agenda today well appointments boards and commissions interview and appoint they're all there are we interviewing oh these people oh the return the ones who are looking for reappointment oh that's sure we did discuss oh that's what we meant by that part okay all right I guess they didn't come down here to see us I assure you you never know I thought they were here about the comprehensive bylaw North house course oh I'm pretty sure that's why they were all right invite somebody El uh Mr Pratt you want to come on up and introduce your members that you're looking to have us interview chis Pratt 152 B app I have Dennis Clark and very B here so they're here to State why they want to be reappointed correct and they are in consideration with the the people who applied for the open space subcommittee whether they are going to be R somewhere as well so okay why would you want to stay on the Conservation Commission well I was just reappointed last year back on the Conservation Commission and I enjoy being on the Conservation Commission I've been on it for over 20 years it's part of who I am I grew up um enjoying the outdoors and I like to see that it's taken care of and I like to be proactive at doing that um so I figure a spot on the Conservation Commission would help me to be able to do just that I've done uh extensive work in Environmental Education um have a great background as far as knowledge of the area I've worked with the state several times on preserving land understanding the regulations and bylaws of the land and what we can do with Wetlands so any questions I do you I needed to hear what his reason for being wanting to be reappointed was same as always same as always okay good thank you all right all right thank you good Mr br Mr Clark good evening sir why do you want to stand the conservation normally I blame it on my wife see we Justa appointed her something else um I come from a small town Feeding Hills was a farming Community grew up in beaing Hills and we had a brook in our backyard had frogs in it we'd play in there and one day I went out there and there was shiny colors rainbow colors in the brook and the frogs were just laying there dead and uh I followed upstream and there was a subdivision that had gone in and they were dumping all their stuff and it got into the brook so when we bought a place in Southwick I told my wife oh there's a brook on the property I hope something doesn't happen she goes well you don't want to be like your father just sit around and complain about it why don't you do something why don't you get on a board so that's when I applied um 203 years ago to get on the commission and I served as Conservation Commission coordinator for over 20 years so I have a little bit of experience and I do feel a Civic obligation and conservation is close to my heart so all right I'm good thank you thank you last but not least Mr patri Best For Last hi folks Jerry Patriot to Shore Road and I'm assuming the question is the same same I'm okay I've uh I've been on the commission for six years now I was recruited to get on and have really enjoyed it formerly being on the sewer committee for 28 years this was a little more interesting so we we learned a few things and I found out about the Wetland protection act and and the different thing that the guys are doing and uh Gone on a bunch of site visits and really enjoyed just learning about the environment and different things couple of really good teachers over here so I've uh just kind of enjoyed the camaraderie learning things being with them doing site visits things like that something new for me I'm an engineer by trade so this was a kind of a diversion for me and I live on the lake been there 46 years so it's near and dear to my heart and uh you know the wetlands are kind of an extension of the league so gotten to see a lot of good stuff so why not continue that's way I look at it the scale it no nothing from me nothing from you all right thanks folks so I'm gonna actually just just bring something up here so um since we've got on the since I've been on the board I've found the whole appointment thing to be quite interesting um and it's always turned into this kind of craziness so um I asked Nicole how things were done where she was before I've looked around some other things and i' it's part of Nicole and I have talked about this appointment process and and sorting it out I know you're working on it and you pretty much got there right you I I've left it to Diane Lisa okay so um and I know I've given you my input on all that stuff so this is and you guys can disagree with me on this one My Philosophy on this whole thing is if we've got members that want to be on a committee or uh if if there's unless there's a pressing reason I don't want to remove members from boards and conservation uh commissions personally that's just the way I feel um you know and I just wanted to let that be known whe whether it it's a popular decision or not or popular position but um I just looked around and and I just that's just the way I feel so I wanted to express that um and we'll go from here and I guess if we'd like to appoint I would be looking for a motion to appoint M to be I'll make a motion to appoint these are all three here now right just a second there's your Fe triple check s you're all three your all regular members correct correct now you are Dennis was filling a term so you're all three years all right I will make a motion to appoint Chris Bratt Dennis Clark and Jerry Patria to the Conservation Commission for the term of 7124 through 6302 7 that was my motion your motion second roll call vote Jason Peron I thank I Doug M and Epstein okay thank you thank you g all right so now we need to discuss and vote on the open space committee reinstatement so I asked Sabrina um you know to give us a little synopsis which she's done and it's in your packet um on reinstating it because it was a committee so it wouldn't be a new committee it was once a committee so if you looked at that any questions um and then I also surveyed my list serve who came back with some you know the ones that do have open space committees who's on them and who they are you know basically under who they report to hey just give me a second I'm still on the other thing making my notes okay so on this the majority of your contexts said they reported to the select board a majority of them yes and our protocols our I guess that's our protocols also say they report to the select board this indicates they are looking for it to report to them um while I agree we don't have firsthand intervention let's say on the Land Management um I guess I wouldn't want to break with that protocol either and I would have it report to this select board as well as are all others we appoint all of the others that are not elected um I I see the objectives I just question is there a priority to those objectives what's the most important function you're looking for I think they're all pretty much prioritized I mean the way they are way they're listed here say they're all very highly prioritized I mean they're all important put it that way what I would like to see happen is maybe a working open space plan where it's kind of like a live document where it's updated as we go along so in the fifth year we're not struggling and pushing together to find information to throw into that document I was hoping that that committee could be so you'd keep updating it as you you keep keep updating it as you accomplish I would like to see that happen correct as we go as it goes along i' also like to have those people they're making a commitment be part of conservation or part of open space conservation in town so the think it maybe first choice if somebody does leave conservation they' be high up on the list of if they want to take over you know they would be able to take um courses or trainings in order to understand about the state regulations and our local bylaws so that they be prepared when they first come on instead of having to be like a year or twoyear learning process as they go along and come across different types of plans um exposure is pretty much how people learn they come on besides those trainings soach take over that is there a budget for that open space and Recreation plan or or how does that come together how did that come together in the past either a grant from Pioneer Valley and then was part of it and then there's usually a budget appropriation every fifth year for as part of the osrp I believe believe that's every five years needs to be updated and I think we're we're coming up on it right right now and having the osrp puts you in contention for certain other grants if you don't have one you can't apply y okay so would the secretary be paid from a grant or does that become an unsta position sometimes they have grants for that but last year the quote from last time we did it the quote from parer Valley was $32,000 an open space plan we were able to do it for 5,000 in house including all the maps that we provide most of them was for maps but you send it to pioner Valley they really don't know that much about this town and they come and ask us about it anyway so really doesn't make that much could have them there for advisors but you don't have to sell me on using Consultants or not I'm a not okay I don't have any questions um the actually the questions Mr mland actually made my decision easier I was sitting on fense on this one I didn't say anything you talked about grants and how things were funded that was my concerns as well so that makes it a big difference for me so I we're if we're at the point where we can vote to re uh reinstate it I mean I'm not opposed to do I think the only I do want to chime in one thing I thought I might have said the quiet part out loud or something and you heard me no I just think as part of the osrp that there's other stakeholders in osrp than strictly conservation so no matter what the board decides to do as far as an and Chris I 100% agree with you as far as the premise here the question is the mechanics of it and that was the same thing as it was two weeks ago I I really think you guys should do it and I I don't just don't know how it should be structured whether it needs to be a formal committee or an ad hoc working group that is not bound by the open meeting law that you guys can get together and have a little group that gets together and advises the Conservation Commission on what you want to do at so fski or northpond or this or that the other but then when it comes time to do the osrp you're going to need representation from other boards and commissions that have a have a stake in that on Park and wreck on that and 100% I think that and but I think it'd be up to Nicole to designate what kind of committee what you know how it's going to be run how other Town well we can determine what the members as having being a formal committee is those people are making a commitment if they're not coming together on a regular basis they might come they might not come they might not be informed might fall off the the face the and I get I it's a good point and because I I 100% agree whether it's on the formerly on the police department with Reserve officers call officers on the fire department the planning board associate having that bench is so important to have people to be able to move into different roles so I really do I support it I just want to make sure that a that it's going to do what we wanted to do and that you can put people to give as much or as as much or as little as they can afford to give and I don't want to turn anyone away from sport town I also don't want to have a committee of 20 people means you got to have meeting and give their opinions just like they do here 100% um the able being able to update it as we go along I think is an important aspect of this um now we have a town a new town plan that we want to put together a lot of that's going be going into this so you're right there are a lot of stakeholders the town or the stakeholders it's not just conservation well understood it would be great to have at the time we're putting that final document together to you know have people from other boards come and you know give input and take part that's not a problem if Dave Spina was on the last one very right right right as far as managing land is part of the open space committee I think that would be proactive as well as you know letting us know what problems are out there when they go out and Survey the land so what's your recommendation for structure I have no idea at this point I I because I think the osrp piece I think it almost needs to be a separate subcommittee Al together because it was last time because of how it's got to have a member of a couple different groups and but from the Land Management and to kind of develop an open space plan or and a continually updated open space plan that's different than the osrp formally but it's a key component it's almost like we did the master plan had the housing production plan part parcel of it it was kind of a nice adjunct because it worked very well together plus Marcus is here so um you know I think that to what Chris is saying is kind of right along is right up that kind of alley so if you wanted to you know I was thinking more along the lines of what like what Lake management does right kind of an ad hoc advisory committee and it it technically advises all the other boards via it via its appointing authority which is the select boards so I don't have any beep with it that's where my thoughts were was I was just going to say it's just like Lake management in a way they do their thing and report it back to who needs to have it and Sh yes or no I couldn't tell you still going like you're very flexible okay then fine I think I don't think we're in disagreement here I I agree I support the idea and concept it was just the how and I that's fine let's just go ahead then three year terms do three and ones or just make it one year terms and keep I would just do ones and you can just reappoint it because then if somebody comes and goes you can just do them once all right so I will make a motion to create an Open Space Management and planning committee management and planning committee um for one year terms people five we think we have seven before but I think five you can have and up to up to three Associates too because then you you can work the quum thing that way so that was a joint motion so well with up to five members and two Associates is that what you said is that what you said three and have f no two yeah cuz you got get for one year for one year terms yeah that was the motion that was the motion did we get us extra second no second okay just roll call vote Jason for I I Doug movan yes right so now we could interview some people who are interested in that interested Mr was it Con flurrying yeah flurry excavation awesome thank you for coming gentlemen thank you goodbye well he's the only one because well there was one other one I she wanted really askro but she's really a and if that weren't available this so we have Connor flurry right now so do we I we put cam on makeer of chairman chief so I'm gonna make a motion to so I'm gon to make a motion to appoint Conor flurry to the new le second forms roll call vote Jason per I danale I Doug Mogan yes and we and if I may we should continue to post or socialize that we would like and let them do it too it's really gonna be very supportive of them I'm gonna tell them and uh are we done witho so then they have to regroup y yeah I think that's discuss appointment process we done yeah D we're not doing can I go back one just I I promise to keeps us to 30 seconds or less H I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on the nature of appointments there is no expectation of reappointment and I've been a Helen back over it and and I think it's also some of the trials and tribulations that we're still having with appointment terms and appointment this and appointment that is kind of indicative of the process has always been a little bit problematic we get a little bit better every year so compared to where we were three years ago we're in a much better place uh so um but there are times and that's part of the responsibility and the authority that comes with that responsibility of being elected to this board but via policy is administered through the appointment process that it goes with any Administration you get a new governor you get all new people and all these different abely you know spots same thing on the select board so there's not always an expectation of and and you may have folks that and and I that was certainly not the case here and to be clear before anybody misconstrues but there are times where there are folks on boards that there are better folks to be put on those boards to move forward the town in in your opinion as an elected uh representative that duly elected to make those difficult choices and difficult decisions we're very for forunate that we have a very good group of people that serve our town and a lot of people that have been doing it for a long long time um but it's also worth a look when you get someone who comes out that you know that brings a unique perspective or unique set of talents to a position and and and you have to make a tough choice and unfortunately for for you know you sitting up here that's sometimes a decision you have to make so well it wasn't so much about to make that decision it's like you said to me I'm me and Nicole have been talking and working on this streamlining the appointment but you know putting some more concrete things in place so that makes it easier on us you're talking about two different things really what you what you started with was you don't really want to not reappoint people if we have a problem with somebody on board it is our responsibility to have discussion with those people or take some action prior to we had a few ear and that's what we that is what we have been refining and in the know and and and not just in theory it's in our protocol that it's you know it's apolitical it's people who want to serve the town but you know there are times when just strategically um brought a letter to you guys where there's some action needed on particular board that's what we have I think I probably expressed it a little bit wrong and it's all good and that's why we're here to have these kinds of discussions and you know like we've done a pretty remarkable job over the last couple of years doing this job and even when we agree to disagree we come to some form of consensus and generally make a a decent decision in the end um so I just wanted to you know and I was very big on this a few years ago you know um you know there is no expect you know there was the term was banded about someone was removed it's in the protoc but that's not actually that's actually incorrect factually incorrect when your term is up your term is up and you you could be appoint reappointed which that's the technical term but you're appointed to a new term but when your term is up you have no real expectation other than based on your performance that you put forward like Mr Pratt did tonight said look I've been doing this a long time I think I do a pretty good job okay that's that's his argument for being reappointed and and okay he's reappointed so that's you know a good thing do you think letters aren't good enough I I just think it's worth coming you know for once if if especially if someone wants to be on if someone else wanted to be on that committee and and I'm not again I'm no disrespect to Mr Pratt at all or or anyone else we just reappointed but if someone else came in and said look I'm a doctor of this and I have this kind of experience and I wrote the Wetland protection act and I just moved to Southwick I would Rec I might would have a really interesting discussion with that person about how they could best serve the town and we that's what we did with Mr flurry as well is anyone who want and I you know I've been doing this since even when I was first elected to the select board is I don't care it's at a rotary dinner or if it's at you know at a softball game hey you want to serve the town let me find a place for you come please come we'll find you a spot right and you know I've been criticized for it in the past but that's our job I think and I think to get people to come out and you know I I I said it with quite a bit of Pride on the um on the high-speed internet every single person on that board it's which is an ad hoc advisory uh board to this was brand new never served on a border Commission in the town of South huge amount of work because now you got a huge learning curve as the chair right to kind of get everybody going with what all the processes are but huge in you know to me it was very interesting with the number of unique perspectives that it brought and no encumbrance of kind of history of town hall right sometimes you have to slow their role just because of of how things roll but I think you know Mr flurry came in we could have easily Absolut not appointed someone else here and put him on and I think you know threat it would have been fine but you know this is it was it was more structured lalin it you know you know simplifying and you know we' had like you said you've de dealt with so much stuff and it was by all means like I said when I pressing means I should have said someone that deserves well not deserves but hey you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing you know absolutely I'm not opposed to that at all right and that's what that's why we put in the the board and commission handbook and there's a peer review thing that they can opt to do before we have to not reappoint somebody but before we didn't I would want their input absolutely the chair's input but yep so okay okay said we' both we've all set our fees so we not doing uh speaking of the HS i m yep he just said that we're meeting Thursday Thursday and I would I would hope to actually I request now a placeholder on the agenda uh for our next meeting very good if not there if you want to put a certain time but we're going to make a presentation to you folks which you're going to send to us in advance I hope so we're meeting on Thursday so you may be getting it Monday Sunday okay P mobile I'm waiting on my letters I told everybody what's going on with that um other old business I have none um I think I just saw today we're still trying to get a date for the mic joint meeting with the planning board to determine their roles and responsibilities and at that same one we'll do the planning board alternate appointment we're not quite done with appointment yes okay um and I was curious where you were with LP did you meet one more time with them uh he was not available next week or last week I did we were emailing this morning um I I have not gotten my email back from him yet okay um the plan is to try and meet this week and um get that you know he he completely understands where we're coming from and I he completely he knows so we're they're definitely open to not leaving it as what it was and that's the only way it's going to fly so so we're still working on it me and Norm are going to meet with him and so just reviewing M General law it's not going to happen on um chapter 48C the Conservation Commission and its own Charter from the state that it is responsible for the protection of the Watershed resources of said city or town that adopts it um it's all about this master plan and actions towards those things and there's no way that a selfield person is g to be able to what I want take up could not find this definitive answer on that you just cite chapter 40 Section 8 C there's no way we're going to give up a position of a resident to make those decisions for our master that was one of the questions I could not answer for him and I could not find it and I'm glad you did and this commission can may receive gifts the quests or other devices of personal property or interests to M to do their Duty here and there's no way that another town can vote on the reced or Gifts of acquisition for land in another so Ain happen well you guys completely missed my putting a guy on the subfield I it putting that drainage on at the last short though you can let them make the recommendation for the appointees on LMC right now the people on LMC are you know like these guys they've been there for 30 years perhaps Suffield wants to recommend its appointees to the LMC well that'll be and then give some and then give some respect to the LMC members that they have appointed to bring that information back to them that's a good counter proposal I think they pretty much put that the conom thing was going to be nonstarter so that's why that's really why we're meeting and see where we can come up with that yes I got nothing else Mr M all question nope Nicole no nope all right so we need to uh minutes any now so topic seven acknowledge payroll and payable warrants topic a is acknowledge payroll warrant number 256 stated 91024 in the amount of $273,950 31 acknowledge payables warrant number 257b dated 917 2024 in the amount of $438,500 and at this point we are going to be looking to go into executive session to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body and the chair so declares to reconvene not Recon we are we have back into Open Session make a motion to go into executive session second roll call vote Jason Peron I Dan I Doug m i