##VIDEO ID:lYU9E1NAbH4## good evening everyone and welcome to the select board meeting for Monday November 25th 2024 6 PM being held here in the land use hearing room present this evening is myself chairman Jason prone Vice chair Diane gaale clerk Mr moglin uh CEO Nicole Parker and assistant CEO naen sigon start with the Pledge of Allegiance Chief stanitz Al to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all we actually have public hearings which are going to be coming up at 6:05 as the next item um so when we jump ahead do we have time public comment oh yeah not on the agend public yes um we're actually gonna go to public comments actually is there any public comments in the audience any public comments on Zoom seeing no takers jump to the end just acknowledge the Warr warrants so we're going to jump to the end we're goingon to uh jump to our payroll warrants which is item eight we're going to acknowledge payroll warrant number 2511 dated 119 2024 on the amount of $ 29847 193 think anything that's going to fit in [Music] there that time so we're going to jump down to number five new business item a to appoint Julie pikney to the economic development committee is Julie here she's not here she's not here but to she was told she was or did not have so any so I think she's very interested in the position I've been to the meetings where she's expressed her desire to join them and uh work on some projects with them so I would endorse that I'll make a motion to appoint Julie pikney to the economic development [Music] commission I wish she would have come in front of us for a brief chat tonight I've worked with Julie very much on the highpe internet she does a great job um but I kind of wish would have had her thoughts on why she wanted to be on that commission but um I'll second a motion but I still think she should come back in front of us at some point well she's traveling she's traveling call vote Jason Peron i i dou m yes just gonna give it a minute start our clar what's the term that to which she's being appointed member for a period of oh to 6:30 uh she'd be filling subject to us verifying what seat she's fing I think it's good point up all right it is now 6:05 we're going to be having a public hearing we'll be held by the south select board at the Town Hall located at 454 College Highway land use here in he in room second floor on November 25th 2024 at 6:05 p.m. ever for ever Source requests permission to install four new poles and Associated anchors and overhead wires for new solar site interconnection of the following public way on Hudson Drive I would be looking for a motion to open the public sh motion second right we have is there any of Representatives here from eversource come on officer just state your name and position Joe McCarthy I'm an engineer I work for TRC and they hired us to design this for every Source guess we just want to hear everything that's what's it what it's needed for sure right they're putting in a solar field up at the end of the uh drive on private property there and to Connected into the to the grid they've got to extend the overhead wires about four spans so we just need permission to get the poles in the side of the road to bring it to the private property where the uh star site's going to be anything I know where it's going I know where it's going I was just there is there uh anyone in the presid audience that has any questions regarding public hearing um is there anyone on Zoom that's interested in making any public comment regarding this hearing seeing no takers I have no questions obviously this is a self not self-explanatory but Mr McCarthy so what it's needed for um so I would be looking this time unless Mr M you're all set all set looking for a motion to close the public hearing motion to close the hearing second we call vote Jason Peron I than I M yes we on you s so I would be looking for a motion to approve the request by ever source to to um add the Poes anchors and Associated hardware and wires for the new solar site on Hudson Drive make that motion second roll call vote Jason p i I dou thank you Mr mcarthy thank you we've got the next public hearing is at 6:15 so we've got a few minutes a knowledge and approve the Open session meeting minutes from November 18th 2024 if that works for to you I reviewed had no issues I sent my changes back I don't know if they got reincorporated for tonight what was published right I sent them in Friday I don't know if there was attended today I had no issues there was some spelling want to just T Nam we put put the next meeting we can table and put to the next meeting unless Mr M's satisfied yeah we can carry this see glasses again um we're going to go to new business item five uh topic C we're going to accept the deposit request of 87 or 24 cents in the library's gift account a refund of the friends of the South public library for purchasing puzzles and games for the children's room be looking for a motion to accept that motion made second roll call Jason Peron I Doug M okay got five minutes y so why don't we just go to the select board schedule select board meetings for 2025 item number five topic B March 18th I will not be here oh this is no meeting anyways never mind that's 2024 dates it's March 17th so how do you want to do this here's the rail dates for 2025 um the weeks Chang there's four in April on the calendar do you just want to read the dates um have you had a chance to look over Mr mland uh yeah I noticed that they were for this year as well so I think we better off just out with another one with correct days and years and we can off dates I will tell you I mean I have one conflict probably two conflicts and town meeting's not on there actually yeah town meeting week is shown as having a a meeting which we usually don't and we usually don't meet the week or you know the day before elections um so whatever that around the 12th I think it's probably be out of I'll work on that we'll table it and carry it to the next meeting we can approve the Transfer Station hours if you want go to new business topic e they approve the 2024 Transfer Station holiday hours request um DPW director Brown is requesting that the Department of Public Work proposes the following operating schedule for the transfer station during the 2024 holiday season changes okay Monday 12:23 they are closed changes would be Tuesday 12:24 open 8 to 12 for a half day Wednesday 12:25 close Thursday 12:26 open 8 to 4:20 Friday 12:27 it's like normal hours 8 to 4:20 Saturday 28th normal hours Sunday and Monday closed for the 29th and the 30th and Tuesday New Year's Eve 1:31 8 to 12 are you are you need your glasses open yeah 8 to 12 half day Wednesday W the first closed Thursday 12 January it's January 2nd yeah threw me out January 2nd Clos January 3rd open 8 to 4:20 Saturday uh January 4th open 8 to 350 and Sunday January 5th closed if anyone is interested as to why the you their contract allows them Christmas and New Year's days off plus half days on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve and they their contract States they do not have to work any later than 12 pm on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve and that is what is proposed so we just have to accept that right so motion to accept those hours Second wello Jason Peron I all right 6:15 we have a public hearing scheduled regarding the no parking signage notice is hereby given pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 40 section 22 Mass General Law chapter 85 section 30 m Law chapter 85 section 2 as amended by the chapter 689 of the acts of 1986 and the southw town code chapter 172 section one that the select board will hold a public hearing on Monday November 25th 2024 at 6:15 p.m. in the land use hearing room at Town Hall to consider traffic and parking regulations for the following roads alov Road no parking signs on both sides Cody Lane no no parking signs on both sides ronado Circle no parking signs on both sides Lori Drive no parking signs on both sides North Pond Road no parking signs on both sides South longyard Road no parking signs from North Pond Road to Mard Road on both sides and White Street no parking signs on both sides so that's what we're here for and I would be looking for a motion to open the public hearing motioning Second Jason perone I Doug yeah well as everyone knows this is maybe not everyone knows but this is all related to the whole North Pond issues that we had during the summer um so this is part of the process we have to do the public hearing to determine how we do this and get your public input as to if you agree with these if you don't agree with these so if any anyone has any input on this sir can you say your name yes my name is Mark six North Road so a couple things about Al in North Road it's governed by North Association which town picnic area got a lot of rules and regulations governs we're really disappointed the town didn't reach us and actually ask us to have a vote whether I believe every one of the residents in those 12 homes has the right to have a vote we'd be happy to get together organize a vote and give recommendation to the town but many of my neighbors couldn't make it here tonight no one knew about until a Facebook post why wasn't a letter sent out to all of us and the people my understand who complain about this don't even live in our neighborhood they go through our neighborhood and get to their private property Road they are not the ones that are going to have those signs on their property and second if you don't think this is going to ruce the value of our homes ask a question of yourself would you want to buy a house that your friends and family had to call the police first to say I'm coming over to visit my friend because right now the only way they can park in the street if we have more people than can fit in our driveway is we literally have to call the police to say we have friends coming over that's obnoxious it's rude and then finally these houses are very expensive we pay ton of taxes having no trust casing signs lining those streets is obnoxious there's an i this summer and finally there's not a problem I work from home 20 years now I look at that cold app 50 60 70 hours a week nobody parks it who doesn't belong there I know that because I live there and I look at it you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist on our property and finally if the state in the town bought this property and they had issues with it they need to resolve it within the confines of that property don't make your problem our problem and put these no trespassing signs on our yards that are really sight unsightly and not that but how do you manage my friends and family my son's friends got a whole bunch just graduate high school whole bunch of friends have cars they come over they park around the cold the sack they hang out the house they go on the boat they can't do that anymore now they're parking on my grass because they can't park in the street so now my grass is getting ruined because you guys have a problem you made my problem don't make it our problem find your own solution leave our neighborhood alone thank you John 15 Drive said it perfectly we can't park AC front of our own houses one of my my house would be affected by this and I think we're just going to have you know Overlook of these signs okay it must be somebody who's at their house and then we get right back into the same thing we weren't policing the original rules and now we have to figure out some other way to you know handcuff the community keep us out so I agree with you I think this is kind of pully f I guess the follow can I formly request that the north pwn VI homor Association has the right to vote on this before you guys make a decision to put signs in our proper um go ahead I'm specific respon can I have Randy speak to that or just give me one second because I want to just add one thing so part of this the North Pond uh Conservation Area task force one of the things we said in an earlier meeting here was we had a problem over there this summer when we went to go look at permanent solutions to try to address some of the issues that were going on over there there's a multitude of them and probably not the right place now as part of a public hearing regarding this but you know shrinking that parking area etc etc but when we decided to go out and post for a proposed bylaw Amendment um to change where we're going to have no parking we went like this and we wanted this feedback here to say hey Al Road not a problem it's never been a problem great we take it out secondly all of this has to go back in front of town meeting and be voted on and accepted this is not something that your select board just does right this is going to go in front of town meeting correct as an as a warrant on the town meet on the town meeting floor so hence why you know we said you know half my what's that no got be it does not this will be right away either way but the whole point was that we wanted to get this feedback here in this in this way so whose idea was it to put these signs up even this summeran why did that happen that's my first question all of a sudden there's no trespassing signs so yards yeah who decided then why didn't anyone ask the owners of those property do you want these signs here that was done in the interest of Public Safety by this board and Public Safety including the police because the parking lot was closed and they weren't going to stay out of the parking lot they were going to park in the streets instead but they weren because we put no parking because we put no parking signs up they can't enforce it if we don't say they can't park there okay but the parking we don't want it that's that's what we're saying is the parking is the problem it's the people going down to North Pond and drinking in parying at the beach we partying in the parking lot that's the problem the cars parking on our street was only because we pushed them out of there and they're parking but the parking isn't the problem exactly going down but we're going by putting handcuffs on our property not allowing us to park in front of our own property it doesn't necessarily solve the problem with people going down there because they're just going to get dropped off one kid will drop off five kids and he'll go park somewhere a mile and a quarter away and walk back so I think the parking signs is it's a good gesture but I think it's going to cause more problems that solution was what absolutely causes problems for the homeor before we have debate you want to see if there's any other comments and then I'll read some of these as well were there any further public comments here in the in the audience are there oh go ahead ma'am uh thean 19 North Pond and I'm probably the unpopular opinion here um I think I went to all the task force meetings and I was at many of the SL board meetings I'm off of the signs but not lining the streets I think one of the original discussions was just at the front of the street I don't think that's going to destroy anybody's property by just putting them at the entrance of the street we have a no Lake access sign at the entrance of the street there a lot of other streets and that dead end you know no throughway I don't think that that would become an issue I agree with lining streets probably not a good idea but I do think that all the neighborhoods that you have should be included because I've seen firsthand and even though Mark didn't see anybody parking I did um on more than one occasion this summer on alov road and they were not res of our neighbor those kids as you know uh trespassed through my property and then proceeded to flip people off as they got back in their car and smiled and left it was the same people twice in a row with more than um more than Frost we had changes I same people that lived here 10 15 20 years this land is different it's new we need to adapt and I think that was part of the task force there's going to have to be some changes we're going to have to grow with it we're going to have to change and we're going to have to get a hand L and there may be some painful growing pains while we do that maybe these signs aren't permanent maybe they're just up for a few years till we get a real grask on this and then they can come down again but there's a learning curve with every change like this and I think as residents I'm on board with it I don't want lining streets I I agree with that but I'm on board with it at the entrance of the neighborhood there's a lot of issues okay to refute that what she just said Lisa drives to our neighborhood to get to her house she doesn't actually hold any property of North she may be S to northp she drives on a private road down by the lake she will not have a no trespassing sign but no trespassing sign at the end of our street is no different than one all over this the neighborhood we still can't have our friends and family parking there that doesn't solve the problem that still creates the same problem our kids friends can't come to our house and park in the street like they have been for the last several years so the problem isn't solved and for folks who don't have property on these Street streets should not be a loud voice that should not be fair that we the owners of the property should be the ones who get to vote anyone else anyone online I will read some nailed in comments and somebody can just make sure nobody comes in online from Megan levit no parking signs on the side streets and west of the parking lot is overkill other than Granado in front of the parking lot west of the parking lot there's an embankment on one side and a drop off on the other on South longard impossible to park on either side heading west no parking signs going east on South longard on the there's a lot of directions in here on South longard on the Southside but what what are the hunters going to do during hun season I'm sure Neighbors on the above list side streets don't want those signs in front of their houses most people going to hang out at North Pond when the lot was full parked in the conservation parking lot and walked to a North Pond the no parking signs won't prevent that I'm sorry that was Gary lit this is Megan levit I cannot attend the meeting for the parking on South longyard but I'd like to comment in support of the signs I live on South longard across the street from the other Wildlife Management parking lot and I would love to see no parking signs better looking than the orange ones and I would love to have the parking lot better monitored or just closed all together while the subject of the parking at the Wildlife Management Area is being discussed I'd like to bring up the parking lot across from my house is there a way we could put up a gate that is only open during certain times there's tons of people in and out of that parking lot at all hours of the night some are just sitting there for a long periods of time and other cars will come and go around that one parked car with the uptick in car Brak ends in the area it doesn't seem great to have that open parking lot there to allow anyone to use to potentially break into the surrounding cars or houses if a gate isn't possible then may be a street light in the parking lot or some other type of lighting it is pit black at night and it's very very convenient spot for people to use for not great reasons at night from dick hardigan so a group of people from out of town break the rules of the conservation area and then assault some some residents and the best you can do is attempt to violate everyone's rights by trying to make the area inconvenient to access sounds like a lawsuit in the making how about simply enforcing the rules for the area we have a great police force and the sheriffs that patrolled the lake are fantastic I'm sure if they were told to enforce the rules they would be happy to instead your answer is to try to make it inconvenient for everyone coming from outside of town and only really usable by Town residents specifically those that live close by sometimes this town is really a joke this sounds more like Jim CR South than a Massachusetts town my guess is that the same couple of residents that are trying to shut down boers use of the lake are the same ones pushing this nonsense there are a few living on North Pond that actually think the lake is theirs from an anonymous I saw four cars full of Out of Towners who look to meet Ruffians to put it gently meet up at Ocean State and carpool to the WMA parking lot probably a dozen or more I know they did because a few hours later one of those cars was there guessing they made a couple of trips to transport all the people over there from Mark and Christine pl we are Mark and Karine PL or plasy and we live at N9 North Pond Road while we can't make Monday's meeting we want to give you our thoughts about the proposal to make our street no parking first there's no valid safety reason for doing this North Pond Road is a wide street with no limitations with with no limitations for fire or other rescue vehicles it's a dead end it is not a hight traffic Street we are a full half mile from the entrance to the conservation area where you're trying to limit use South longyard Road has no sidewalk and looks to be a Tre treacherous walk for that half mile we are sure it can be said for certain no one is parking on North Pond and making that walk so why then you must ask yourself if it's a public Street and the conservation area is a public space if people want to park and use the area within the rules why shouldn't they be allowed this parking issue was an inconvenience all this past summer but we thought perhaps the town just needed time to figure out what to do we strongly disagree with our street being made a No Parking zone for no good reason and Jen smeagle I live at six Al Cove Road in Southwick and a neighbor shared with me the attached notice and meeting first I would like to know why residents of these of these neighborhoods were not sent this notice directly in the mail second I will need to better understand what the no parking sign will impact on behalf of the neighborhood many many of us have Gatherings with family and friends and they Park in the CU sa we also have teenagers and their friends park there too my family has a boat off North Pond and on occasion we have coolers and bags we drive down and park at the Gate entrance to our boat with all of the above will that no longer be allowed Kristen and Mick Foley I am writing to let you know that we do not want multiple signs throughout the North Pond El coov neighborhood one sign either attached to our street sign or next two should be sufficient we have a pretty town and neighborhood and I don't think we need to put signs up all over it those were the writings anybody else online did I ask for a clarification on that what you just said so if there's a No Parking sign the end of our street just one sign that still means there's no parking and our friends and family can still get tickets the the an Al as Doug said this was the wide reaching SP I'm asking a specific question one of the Alternatives was to put on the street name signs a sign that says resident parking only just one correct at the entrance to the street it's a bit of an interpretation for visitors are they your visitors or are they visitors to town I think that's what we need to limit is the interpretation that's allowed because you know now someone just has to know somebody on that road and say oh hey can you just tell the cops that I'm parking at your house I live I've lived on that street for 36 years my whole life I've lived right across the street from North Pond the the problem I see is the hunters too they're GNA have a big problem in once Mass wildlife wants to get involved because in the mornings lot people don't see it but they park right down south longard like Jason to the management area now where they going to park we actually talked about that as part of part of this public hearing process I'm glad you brought that up John because one of the things was even if we do Post portions of North longard it'll be posted as seasonal by the months right so I I don't know what those dates will be but you know say it'll be you know may to September or something like that so because the hunting season is usually after that and so that that should be available to those I when we first started we said we could just cover them during that season or just post it accordingly because you know the the issue that we had was during the summer months it wasn't in the winter months and um I'll be honest I wasn't really all that familiar that there was a lot of that activity at that time of the year but it's been going on for years and it's been not an issue so there's no reason to to to stop that plus I just I worry about you know setting a precedent of putting up in mil parking sign and just limiting access and that's how you know we're seeing to you know find solutions to a problem like hey nobody can touch it one person can't you know this isn't Middle School you know there has to be a a widespread solution not just a widespread correct Mr chair I Jessica thoron 352 Granville Road I I appreciate the most recent conversation as I was going to speak um for the hunters uh my husband is one of them and spends a lot of time trying to fight for parking especially this time of year here um and we do do training over the summertime and lots of people like to use that area especially to the WMA land um so I don't know that the no parking signs would need to go all that way and I would also just like to um speak a note of caution for the residents who live towards the end of the street again echoing some of the gentlemen from North Pond Road sentiment about you know why can I not have somebody come park in front of my own house if I'm having a party and that's just some of those potential unseen consequences if we take an action this wide reaching for such a narrow problem so thank you for the time thank you Jessica we we talked about this in the past and you know I don't think I don't think straight out no parking is the solution either um my when I discussed this previously to the north where I employed we've had issues in the past most of the issues occurred across the street from the college and they do something along that lines like we said Mr Mullan you were saying uh seasonal and certain time frames um it is an inconvenience staff to call I understand that um one of the other things they do do um is they they allow resident passes um I know you don't want to have to give everybody a pass but you know I don't my intent is is to try and control it not limit it so just kind of put get some sort of way to reel it in if it becomes another problem rather than the I mean do you guys want to see those orange signs come up every year I know they're hideous looking and I know the chief has a lot of fun putting them up um if it becomes a problem I I I think that Resident parking only at the entrance to the neighborhoods is the way to go personally um with like Mr mgin said with especially the hunters that did come up when we talked last time you know I see them all the time um out there this time of year so you know there that that's why we're here we're here to hear everybody's opinions get everybody's opinions and if this doesn't work come up with something and if we have to have another one we have another one this was obviously a a big topic for the task force and many of the members are here um and again they if it doesn't say you can't be parking there the police can't really enforce it well if we at least post on those streets it still relies on the residents to call for violators if you know there's out of if there's a gang down at the lake and they're parked on your side of the road they have to rely on you to say those are violators they're not residents even if we post those resident parking only on the streets it would be up to the neighbors to alert the Police that these people are there illegally and then they can enforce how do we Define res does the car have to be registered to the no I mean that would be common sense and the police would know that they can see that there's a party going on at your house that that those are your people there they would use compt if you want to speak to that of course I mean it's pretty common sense for the most part if you see a bunch of cars you're going to Quake some house there the worst thing we're probably going to do is go bang on the door heym people over you're going to see you have people over know if there's a single car there maybe it's a different store maybe we investigate a little bit further but your your Gatherings and stuff is pretty obvious I I agree with the chief on that one it's generally can I I just wanted to sorry real quick want to make sure that we're addressing the right thing because we're talking about calling on people for parking right that the way to solve some of these problems is by putting a limitation on something as benign as parking somewhere and I don't want to see residents calling on other people that they don't recognize because they don't look like residents to them because of the act of parking I don't think our police chief or any of his employees or or excuse me his fellow officers um should be called over a minor parking thing they should be called if somebody is utilizing the property inappropriately me parking my car somewhere to access property that I was supposed to be legally able to access for certain activities is not an offense me parking and then going to the property and doing things that I'm not supposed to do there that is the offense that should be called on so I just want to be that we're very very careful because some of the words that we're choosing and utilizing on how we're going to identify a quote unquote problem um can come off a very certain way that looks to be um I don't know not quite the thing that we want to be making ourselves known for thank you Jess so I'm gonna I'm hold on one second Mr Kane I'm gonna spin this back to the last meeting we had about this this is why I had a discussion about a nuisance bylaw um you can address that is the way you address that nuisance you know that's exactly what happened to the north where I'm employed it became problematic with mostly college parties and the same type of stuff we didn't have any real way to enforce it you know most people they're going to ignore that stuff oh citation what you do but they do turn into criminal complaints and then you can get a warrant but this is you know the nuisance household and nuisance um ordinance up there bylaw that I would propose is based off the one from Westfield and it clearly states what is problematic you know what you can actually enforce that for you know and it's that's part of a police officer's job is discretion making that call there and then and that is going to be I'm going to continue to push trying to get this nuisance bylaw because it addresses a lot of problems and it can be clearly defined what's a nuisance and this is why I brought this up the last time you know because you can you can address it more at a at a civil level than a criminal level and that's what we really ran into to the north it you know became a we could show up and if somebody was acting completely irrational or the even the party was completely blown out of proportion here's your $300 citation here's your $300 citation you have a right to appeal um and I hate to say it this way but you hit people in the pocketbook that's where it hurts them and that's the way I that's a little bit that's the same Global problem but a little bit different that's in the bylaw that's being a lot of that is in the bylaw that is being proposed for North Pond for all of the recreation areas well I want I want to tell them what but I think I know maybe I'm off base here but that's almost sorry what we're what we're talking about here is really a designated parking area and staying in the designated parking area and limiting those areas that are not identifying those areas that are not designated parking areas for North Pond sorry I I'll disagree with what you just said but I also think that the nuisance what was the name of that file it's a nuisance nuisance it's just a nuisance household nuisance property so I think that that almost is apples and cows to this because the problem we had with with the parking and the access at the North Pond Conservation Area wasn't tied to the households that were proposing to put no parking they were parking on those streets to get at and abuse the North Pond Conservation Area now we we've got some rules and regulations we've got something that's going to go in front of town meeting to give us some some better posting of rules and regulations and enforcement Authority therein in order to to have that property utilized in the way that it's intended but I and I think um Miss Thorton is not wrong either it's not the AC of parking that's a problem it was the amount of people that were coming down to North Pond to to use that beautiful piece of land in a way that the conservation restriction and town meeting and everyone else when I think when we bought it ever intended and um just to restate what I said earlier was you know I know that the hunting thing had come up in our in part of our discussions and we wanted to get that encapsulated in any bylaw that comes forward but to your point about you know alol Road and and North Pond is it northpond view right North P Road northp Road sorry um you know guys don't want that take it out right and and like I said we also posted this for a distance on on South longard in both directions if we didn't feel it was necessary after conversation we could pull it in one thing we couldn't do was if we didn't have those streets on this proposed bylaw and then people came in and said oh good lord we really should have posted Al Cove Road well then we have to start over so hence why we had this discussion and I appreciate the feedback because that's why we're here and doing this in the first place so if everyone's in agreement and I don't know that everyone is but if everyone's in agreement that that alov Road and North Pond are not are not an issue I I see that that's not obviously the case I'm generalizing greatly that's my proposal was let me get the te together I a vote and we'll give you a collective answer yeah no offense toisa she's not part of nor viewers Association she doesn't own property from the 12 homes that party Association understood the road is not home should have a right to decide whether or not we have no trespassing well you live on a public way in the town of South so that's that's kind of that's why we have this process right so I get it we should have the right to have every one of those homes once they're you correct hence why we're here and and we can continue this I get it and we can continue this to the next meeting or the meeting after we're not this is not going to be till a Maytown meeting type of thing anyway so let's we'll have plenty of opportunity for everybody to come in and have their voice heard on this issue because that's the reason why we're here right and I appreciate you know what Mr Kane is saying and Lisa what you're saying we just have to come up with a solution and I think at the end of the day you're right if everybody just you know used North Pond passively the way it was supposed to be there would never be a need for figuring out how people can FK 50 60 cars around there there should be never a need for more than oh I don't know three four five right hence one of the reasons why we're going to try to one of the one of the targets of the end the North Pond conservation area task force was you know the the common sense thing stay on the theme was you know either get rid of or really reduce that parking area down but if we don't have one without the other and we don't put the rules and regulations in place and the enforcement behind that at the North Pine Conservation Area we will make the situation worse because those cars that do fit in that parking lot now are going to be forced out onto the side streets so and we heard from folks on both sides of um you you know Granado and whatnot that that were generally in favor of this on the other end of of you know the other side of Granado that said no and then um you know I had talked to Mr lit who I think he had public comments in here I don't know 50 hundred times about stuff going on at North Pond and then we you know I talked to him about the parking issue on Lor which is quite a ways away he says it really isn't an issue I know we had posted it but it was never really an issue down there so that's why we're having this meeting and try to take that feedback you we're not trying to you know take anyone's rights away or you know just indiscriminately put up signs because we got a great deal on those signs you the chief got for us right that's not our plan our plan is to try to do the best we can to manage that property and the safety of the people of the town and our police officers because you know we never want to have a situation like what happened there this summer happen again thank you so this is really I'm Mr Kane had put his hand up I was just curious what other um propos Solutions where they're aside from the no paring signs for the issue at hand that's that that honestly that's why I just keep bringing up you know I I have given it to Miss Parker if I can't I anybody who wants to take a look at that ordinance that I would propose as a bylaw here by all means we can send it out get it and it clearly explains it and I I understand what Mr mogan's saying Apple cows what it does do is it allows without putting up the signs that everybody's dealing with you go and you deal exactly with that problem and it gives you easier and More in my opinion effective way to deal with it which we haven't even talked about the one he's referring to yet the task force has a recommendation for an extensive Parks beaches Recreation conservation preservation areas bylaw with rules on um parking on what you can do in each one what you can't do in each one uh that you can be under surveillance in any one of them it's all about the trash it's no partying it's no tents it's all of the nose no destroying the property no removing plants no taking anything out no leaving anything in for all of the town's um Recreation areas pretty extensive bylaw Town Council has renewed it finds it very enforcable um the Conservation Commission got approval to close off parts that have been trampled severely of the North Pond area that's one of the recommendations close it off for two years and let it regrow and see what that does to it if it comes back or if it needs to be prolonged um we're going to change the parking lot configuration to only handle four vehicles um closing off some of the other entrances posting signs that you are on the property over on the bab road side where there there's no identification that you're even on the property um a number of other measures there's I know I got a book of recommendations but um it's pretty Global so that the police can actually enforce those things right now it's a suggestion we're talking about streets that's completely different he asked what are the other I think it was I think it's a combination John it's not we don't have a lot of this isn't the only thing this is not the only thing right but this is the process in order to put up a No Parking sign you have to go through this process Randy can you know Randy guided us on this process as far as what the framework is to do it so you have a public hearing we'll also probably have a public hearing I imagine we will have a public hearing and probably an informational session on the bylaw itself that would have to go to town meeting correct yes that would have to go to town meeting right so it's not just one thing I'm not under none of us should be under the disillusion that if we put up no parking signs within 60 miles of North Pond that the problem is solved right it doesn't it doesn't do anything right in in in and of itself it's one tool of the the whole gamut one of the big issues was if we control the parking lot where are those people going to go they're going to invade the neighbor spaces started with the temporary signs on Grado so so we were very cognizant of overflow going to other places if we did if we did this alone which is why we're considering the signs and while we're talking about the signs there's really three chunks of these signs it's the side roads it's South longyard Road and it's White Street which is really a different issue we had earlier in the year but it's just come because we're doing signs here I don't think White Street was an issue for anybody it's in a different part of the the lake and for different reasons um the side streets we hear you we don't want to be obnoxious we just don't want to ignore the fact there might be some spill over so the question is what do we want to do with South longyard because nobody's really had comment on South longard how far do we want to put no parking on South longyard and do you want to pull up her map now it's that a good time longard Road ear there's a certain distance where there's no one down around the corner if few Park prob need to get just get a b car you can BR I don't think anyone would care either way but I don't think it's it's something people there was a ton of creativity down there this summer you bet it was amazing I going to say don't don't say they won't because they will if they find a spot they will and this is why we're having that we were thinking South long from about North Pond and then you know the question is where's the other end right is it La at the was that East well then and that and that was part of the discussion I know it came up in our earlier meeting was do we no I think you just post it you can have your no parking sign that says you know may to September no parking and so obviously if it's uh you know if it's April or October and you somehow manage to safely park there and not get you know and not have your car in a ditch good luck right it's fine but if it's if it's outside of that time and or in the time that we're saying you know may to September it's no parking on on South longard I don't think that impacts the hunters that's why we wanted to have this feedback you know generally we see that too many people parking except for when we have those problems right and you know John like I said my my issue is going to be to push to other angle so there there's a way to deal with it if we can't deal with it via Conservation Area stuff like that and because I've had other complaints about different things as well that this would kind of cover that base and give it give another option so the sound like a reasonable approach is there no ability for the police force to find people now that are doing things property laws in place that we can direct it to the chief some of it was my understanding that you know basically you could say hey please don't do that and if they become an issue we know we trespass them from the property but Chief so the answer to your question is basically there's not a lot of specific tent bylaws to address the issues that are going there there are some state laws there are a couple bylaws like littering open containers stuff like that we can at uh some of these other things that they want to do such as you know no campfires no tents no picnic stuff like that there is no specific bylaw that deals with that so bylaw they're proposing will allow us to go in there and write the citation the only way for us to enforce it now is for us to go in there and say hey you're breaking the rules and as part of breaking the rules were basically now going to trespass you off the property you go back here then you're going to be charged criminally but that's sort of what we're dealing with now so it's a whole process where unfortunately you have to go into court to actually de with it rather than just issue of money citation John where did you say you would recommend for South Long yard you were saying right after that wild area because you get into people's front yards and on South longard I have I haven't seen people parking well question how far off the road you have to be not be in violation so the town's B right now says you have to leave 12 obstru unless it's no um out of the tun RightWay would have to be out of the tunn RightWay basically for the most part my inter so that's on the wild man are you could par there but anywhere else really yeah if you've got the space to get far enough off yet we did put the signs up we did put them from North Pond all the way down to M that was our my other thought was obviously we take and we approve that whole area doesn't mean we have to put up all those signs we can put closer North and push them out as as said they are recommended 120 ft apart the signs is that correct it's all based on the letter size so yes so orange MCD that's the the Bible signage anything but yeah it's based on letter height so orang lettering height would be Su for this location and it's 30 in per 30 ft per inch so 4 in lettering would be 12 they can be farther I can find a sign bigger than but can they be farther than 120 or no then no long no no further than no further than okay okay me try to locate them you know not right in front of a house a property line line s y so that CL I think the North Pond would just passed so so we don't even have to go as far as the management area we can shorten the distance and see how that goes and then if it moves further we put another sign up it doesn't have to be all at once either M John since you you lived there during the problems when we were having they were parking all the way I saw down almost the street so what happened was that parking lot is full then you just try to park as close to that parking lot and really because people are somewhat courteous before they weren't allowed to park on South longard they weren't really parking on gr my parents live right on the corner I mean their driveway is almost half the corner of Grado and South longard and up until all those signs got put up really nobody was parking on that street at all it's they kind of grow out of that parking area area that's really the biggest is right around probably you know maybe 500 ft in both directions probably the worst that was my concern too is when if we reduce the size of that parking lot we we create the problem that you just described right so and when we didn't at first it wasn't very well enforced and they had Park cars park everywhere but sideways in that lot then we started kind of laying it out a little better and it it Force cars out of the area down the side streets down Granado especially um so and the plan is to make that parking area smaller and have the bylaw and everything else hopefully that will address you know it from a couple different angles it's comprehensive I don't think you can just say if we you know just to reiterate if we put up no parking signs it will not solve the problem this has to be part of a comprehensive plan sir what was your name again sir and by all means get the homeowners association together well we can extend this like he said or we can have another public hearing and get and anybody that's you know whatever your ideas are get them to Nicole get them to me get them to Mr mowan Diane um and we can work on it that's you know that's why we're here like right now I I personally feel like the residents parking only is a reasonable compromise it gives us the police force and protection to be a like citations but doesn't inhibit our ability to enjoy now our friends and park there without having to call the police that's L had to happen this year we had a party that to call the police and say hey we have friends coming over please don't tell and that's just is nobody wants that the police don't want that call right they're busy they don't want us call have party and so that prevents that problem so I don't know I'm asking for my neighbors and say what do you guys think is a uh resent only talking signing okay with you guys take the time and talk about it and get back to us that's what we're here for so does anybody have anything else further they want to include in the public hearing for now when when's our next meeting Mr CH December 9th I think probably should to that and you have to give it a Time certain right heing so same thing 615 unless we have any other do 610 that way we're not waiting five minutes 10 minutes in between if we have anything else we can plan according what's that December 9th Mr D and okay motion to oh we're not going to close continue to next me okay okay thank you everybody thank you thank you all for coming in your input see our next item on the agenda let me just cross out the few here since I'm Happ is for 620 we have the fcal year 25 tax classification hearing three these all right the town of South notice a public hearing select board tax classification fiscal year 25 the select board will hold a public hearing on Monday November 25th 2024 at 6:20 p.m. in the land use hearing room at Town Hall to decide whether or not all classes of property should be taxed at the same rate for fiscal year 25 interested taxpayers may send written information on their views to me m McCarthy at South ma.gov or send by mail to the select board 454 College Highway Southwick Mass I would be looking for a motion to open the public hearing motion second call vote Jason p i i dou Mogan yes I'm just for the record as I was taking some notes did we vote to continue that other hearing or did we just say we're going to do it just we didn't close it we just said we were going to do it but we didn't close it I'll make a motion to continue that public hearing till December 9th at 6:1 roll call vote Jason per I Doug now we're back on this thing yes um what's up uh do we have I see at least Miss Gore M Kane everybody come on up from the assessors sorry that was a long five minutes on that last keep it short for believe we're all in agreement about keeping the the flat rate of one factor of one for all for businesses and residential um do we have I guess we were looking for some sort of explanation as to why we it's on it's on that thumb drop [Music] I'm glad I added it because she told me you had to stick yeah gave that to her so we have a PowerPoint that basically that's what CL it up but essentially what we've noticed is that by leving a higher rate on Industrial and Commercial and personal property and whatnot it doesn't really affect our positive tax right so we're going to put undue burden on small business is mostly small business and that kind of thing higher percentage businesses already have different tax plans in place so we basically be leving a higher tax on the smaller businesses so by keeping it a value of one it keeps it you know kind of small business friendly and you know the the residents pay for the residential services there's a PowerPoint that has some of the breakdowns and different um values if we went to a 1.25 or 1.5 you uh CIP know my my first year on I tried to learn the formula and I that's what I came up I remember explaining to everybody as way you look at it is the percentage that ends up going on the small business is just just an unfair me to go there John um I mean you just go right through to one slide seven that just gives a quick oh one six there you go so you can see we're at almost 90% residential tax of our total tax basis um and then if you go on to go another three slides and then these are some um what the tax rates would be if we change the the factor from 1.2 5.3 you know and so on how would affect the residential tax rate versus the commercial tax rate um and we're you know we're saving a slight amount on the residential rate but we're putting a large amount on that commercial rate there's some more graphs that if you continue through to give you you know based on valuations what the tax impact is going to be so we're looking you know say a median house of 350,000 you're going to save $350,000 or $350 on your tax however a business with the same valuation of property is going to pay an additional almost $3,000 you know business like that is a is a relatively small business that's under the black bar is that where that was yeah yes okay tax impact so as a board we decided you know to to take into consideration these things and remain with a factor of one so what were you saying the larger businesses have other tax the only one we have is a tiff so our highest our highest tax payment businesses are paying taxes different ways right so they wouldn't necessarily be as impacted by a higher rate that's how I understand it under the terms of their Tiff for what he's got yeah they expire which will be quite sometime maybe you'll be in a different situation and percentages overall for the different classes by that time you um I mean there's more that that shows the comparisons of the different rates that's what each one of these each slide following this is a breakdown per you know up in the top left corner you can see the percentage 1.2 and then these are the these are the year year-to-year valuation increases um just an average single family you can see how show year to year how it's progressed through and the what the tax bill value of the percentage of value is you know so it's actually I guess lower where we are now $ 1.75 billion that's why I did that figuring out the first year was like I knew our residential was well over a billion and the the commercials well under a 100 million so because I mean what people ask that when I you know what what about the commercial and this really explains it it's like it took me about a month to figure out exactly how it even come close to coming out with being able to explain that people asked every year and they do ask every year and this is this is why it's just it would put an unfair you know percentage that burden on the on the commercial in the business own although I'm sure it's to an extent a draw for some businesses to maybe seek sck out but by changing that I think we do a disservice to the current businesses and the ones that have really made self you they aren't just the business they have a lot of people in town that work there and you know they're paying their tax rate at that same thing so those are our thoughts can I say something so you know most of Western Mass keeps the single tax rate and not the split out in the East where their businesses have you know a higher valuation of the town it's a different story but um you know we us out in the western part of the state just don't have that commercial tax base and so you know the assessors did a great job here expl you know showing the different um scenarios and that still it's a recommendation to keep the single tax rate very comprehensive thank you s what do you think would be a trigger to consider a split rate I think if our percentage split was to become quite quite a bit more Industrial and Commercial you know not the 90% residential if it were 80 where do you think it would well I guess that would be something to look into our you know the actual Finance you know the financial benefit of it and then the Fallout as well if we were to increase those Mr D did you wish to be acknowledged sir sure I on the finance committee I guess just a thought we all talk about this whole commercial we got These Guys these commercial guys how many when you have your quarters right we have our M drag that's commercial we have the industrial par Mr W that's Comm commercial but how many businesses in this town are R out of their house by by Jo Dei or anyone else that how you going to affect that commercial rate with them I mean it's it's you know they get to Park their truck there they got some equipment in the back they work as hard as everyone else in this damn town so how do you affect that guy or you don't right because he's residential so we opening up another can of worms because we're going to go after that commercial right you know agalon right Six Flags beautiful industrial park and I believe they have a commercial R over there there like 30 different animal absolutely you know same with West different animal we're a little South um and I don't think we have a bunch of commercial space left to develop anyways and and the big picture we have an economic development team but we don't have a ton of space left and judging of he we articles it's going to stay open for a while no one's in our watch to get here until we can calm down our nerves and this we get back to one your time thank you thank you Mr D so I guess that would be looking to accept the C's recommendation of a tax fa of one I'd be looking for that motion make that motion I'll second the motion roll call vote Jason perone I Doug yes and I'll make a motion to right and and oh you can't move the needle exactly when it's 90 something per residential it doesn't matter what you do to the commercial tax rate it has it's so it's almost impossible to impact the residential tax rate and other than to make it punitive to business um and if that's your goal that's fine but there are plenty of businesses in town that are you know moderately successful today and and small and you you know you will it's punitive right if you if you in order to move the needle at you know when you're 9010 or you was it 955 or wherever you know somewhere in that range right it just becomes it's untenable to be able to move it so that's why the T and you know M Parker called it out exactly you know and some other point when you get to a 6040 or maybe at 7030 I don't know where that is then you can look at that well you know um part of it twoo is you're leving a higher tax on the commercial because they're operating business they are impacting Services more you know maybe more wear and tear with trucks in town but that I think the businesses we have in town they're employees are B in town on the residential side and keeping that business in town you know keeps those people in town as you said many are out of a residential and like like Joe said if we save $300 for residential tax rate for that same value commercial property now you're 2700 more increased so that's that's what you lose 2500 bucks you could have a fun conversation probably better had over a couple of years than at a select board meeting as to you know what's the impact on Services you know demand for services from a residential use versus a commercial use or or what have you um and you know and I've said it a thousand times I'll say it a thousand times more I'm lucky right I live in town I work in town sometimes I try to help the town where I can right um but you know and there's plenty of other people like me that now not only do I you know I live here I work here I get this you know go to all the restaurants all the time and take advantage of the local businesses that we have and you know we need to protect those and nourish those local businesses that we have and not you know I don't think for the the sake of you know we've had this argument you know obviously we had that big development project a few years ago that was proposed that that was you know soundly rejected I still don't honestly believe that the tax rate was the driving thing pulling someone here right um it's nice but it's not the only factor in someone deciding where to site their business um and I think we have to figure out part of the master plan and part of of of some of the other things that we have going is you know where are we going and how are we going to grow our tax base you know in in a way that's that's viable for the town you know in the short run and the long run so part and parcel of this but I think you know you're right you know and the assessors are 100% correct Factor one is the only way to go thank you the illustration we haven't had that in many years oh yeah it's helpful for all of us I think thank thank you all so we are down back to new business item five did you second in closing that hearing I didd I did okay yep at 712 I've got call Jason want to interrupt Mr no um topic item five topic D are we going to approve the one-day liquor license for Kirk sandord so this is for lot luck dinner at the rec center here yeah karate group yeah yes okay yep I'll make the motion any interest of time second very good roll call vote Jason PR I dang Gail I for the potluck dinner for the Bob Landis kading group on 12724 from 4 to 400 P pm to 12 a.m. second oh don't rollot yeah I did say vot didn't yes I was just telling people what it was okay it was the most comprehensive package I've ever seen that's pretty thick uh 18 Pages worth 19 Pages worth yeah all right new business five topic F discuss and vote on a special town meeting yeah so rightfully I was asked to to uh you know make sure we get this extension in writing for the Historical Society to buy the property um on College Highway 74 College Highway and when I spoke with the origin with the first owner he said yes he doesn't mind but we needed it in writing spoke with the second owner who sort of reneged on that and said you know we have an agreement that expires January 31st and if you can you know put that together by then we will honor it but we don't want to extend it so the choice now is to have a a um special town meeting to go in front of the town to see if they'll authorize CPC funds to be used um for the conservation restriction that the town will own um and the the Historical Society will own the land so that has to go to town meeting I was at the CPC meeting and there are a couple of other applications in which is the town hall facade and pickle ball Courts for Wall-E Park that will be ready if you are so inclined to schedule a special town meeting but um so it's really the support of the Historical Society um to schedule this nothing else is super pressing but this this uh individual application is is should be those three things is there anything else hanging that we could there maybe um again it's January 31st so if you do that's the date that's the date that's the date of the and what were you suggesting so I would suggest um January 13th for a special town meeting it is that's a Tuesday it's a Monday okay um I was looking at Mondays I don't do we look at Tuesdays if you look at Tuesdays any day works the six kind of close to New Year's the 20th is a holiday the 27th is pretty close to the expiration date so have to interrupt you I did had a text conversation with Madam moderator over the weekend and she was going to check with the schools on availability of the facility oh there she is now I didn't see you there how are you so kind of what we talked about but you know probably in just you'd have to probably get it in 20th if you want to do in December I didn't talk to the guy the a guy runs the microphones if that was what the those two weeks are but that was when I thought it had to be done by the end of the year I did send out an email to Eric wander and Garrett Garin Garing Garing green thank you Garing green I but I have not heard that saying is does that is there anything that weak that would prohibit us those two I don't think it's a good idea to schedule between the two I think in early January yeah yeah we'll have to see if what's the availability we did Monday or Tuesday night we know we want to give it typically they in Tuesday you know had to you know we had to deter it yeah that they had two nights in a row like Tuesday Wednesday or Monday Tuesday either way right and then the other I I just had a quick question for you don't mind for Lee the article is in front of the community preservation committee is a conservation restriction or the acquisition of the property or both it's acquisition of the conservation restriction not the purchase of the property who's buying the property the South historic Home Society so I guess let me just follow that through then you don't need us you need that restriction in place to reduce the price to buy it is that hence the thing H that starts to make sense so there's no CPC funds for the ACT actual acquisition correct but you're buying the conservation restriction which thus Le lowers the acquisition cost correct okay that makes perfect sense we still need to schedule a special town meeting then yeah do you want me to get firmer dates and come back on December 9th from the schools and I'm waiting from to hear from Ben Coyle I everybody else including Ken is all set for that date I should probably hear back from them probably tomorrow you know if not I'll if not I'll call we can announce it on that date but that's a scheduling issue not subject to the open meeting law for discussion of availability and so on and so forth so if you have to pull the trigger to email us or the moderator or anyone else finance committee firm up exact before way before December 9th so we can then on December 9th say this we're gonna have it January whatever should be able to do that the next couple and I have to speak with Garland tomorrow too so about something else perfect so we're temped not I mean you could we're not going to do like like three articles I'm not do projector I projector we're just simple so park and wreck may have some I don't know what you say park and wreck may have some or think we're good I don't know pretty elaborate now okay we reading a confirmation thank you thank you for the explanation I appreciate it business item five topic G any other new business I have none right now uh not for me I am Maybe all right old business old business item six topic a approve contracted snow pla operators for 2024 2025 winter season and do you want to come up or I don't think I need it so we got we got a couple new names this year um total number of trucks is 21 that's where we've historically been 21 22 Vehicles outside from last year um you got the names of the contractors locations you recall we did approve a new rate um a couple months ago also a bonus as well so just to note the bonus was a minimum of 75% attendance required per truck so just completing your sentence in your in your statement here so I'm going to read off these list the names they Randy is recommending BP certified welding for four vehicles for the side streets in the southwest corner bounded by College Highway in Granville Road Faria Home Improvement one vehicle town-owned parking lots marks Property Service three vehicles side streets in the northern end bounded to the South by Route 57 solo masonry seven Vehicles laid plows side streets in the East End bounded by Feeding Hills Road College Highway and South longard Road tinic Landscaping two vehicles town home parking lots side streets off of College Highway and Jesse vasus four vehicles side streets around Conan Lakes I we've talked about this plenty I don't I guess I'd be just looking for a motion to motion to approve those contracted operators is red second roll call vote Jason Peron I I Doug M yes planner job description had your updates anybody else there was a question that I forgot to answer for somebody who's in the audience so um regarding the town planners I was asked uh other towns which have similar sizes populations and if they have them in I did have this where is it there it is so some of the ones that responded back to miss um Parker were what Weston $100,000 with $ 4,849 population Dalton $770,000 salary with 6,300 folks Georgetown 990,000 salary with 8470 montue 67,000 to 82,000 range 8500 residence Northfield 75,000 2866 2 a low population yeah orange 84 to 106,000 for 11898 folks peil ranging from 72,000 to 102,000 for 100 or excuse me 11, 64 residents Sterling 106,000 7,985 and where a range between 64 and 88,000 with 10,066 folks so those are the similar ones that anybody else ever get back like that's a combined banner and conservation position that's how South does it as well as does um so just a simple answer does not always say that because I'm just looking at mue and that person does handle um conservation I know Hadley does that as well so I think it's a little more complex than just saying yeah we have full-time planner but that there are different job description in different towns so mono probably it looks like just from a quick look at their website conservation falls under Town plan more than just a quick little this proposal is not a full-time planner either it's planner and Economic Development directive so it's going to have split duties as well Mr D you wish to be acknowledged in on Nicole's position wasn't she part of Economic Department too when we did all that this would report this position would report to her so that was needed back then [Music] through say it was needed back then well that's my Economic Development that's now we're going to put someone else there and report I was hoping we had one before we hired the PO but we didn't thank you I have I would I would absolutely welcome and love to help with economic development but to be the CAO and another department head is it wouldn't work it just wouldn't work there's no way I would be able to do good at both positions no I just I could have sworn it was brought up during best conversation that's when I was hired I think that maybe that you know I was certainly asked what I thought about Economic Development and what I you know what I think what do you think the town should do with economic development and I said I think I would listen to the town and see what they want to do for economic development she was I asked the question um I Heard okay thank you so and I just really quick there planning and conservation in monteu is a planner and an assistant planner with conservation duties too so they definitely are going to range I know Sterling is very much involved in their planning um and that's just the planner um I just asked my list serve of under 12,000 people who has a full-time planner what your salary what your population is so I didn't have to go do all that work and we have a full-time planner and this is the salary so that's I wasn't trying to be you know go under the guise of being misin giving misinformation by any means I I actually miss agree with Miss I remember I and I did mention this in the last meeting when I first got on I asked Mr steinhardt you know who shops the town around and he said you can do it and it's um it's it's a full not a full-time job but it's something you got to dedicate hours to to actually do so um I i' I asked him about adding an economic development coordinator even part-time and this kind of touches on that and covers that you know that aspect as well as the planner um so I think it's something that Southwick would benefit from um but that's for us to all discuss and determine whether was discussed with the finance committee and see what uh we want to do with it but that you know we're here just to let everybody know this is what we're thinking about doing you know and you know I personally support the idea the other aspects of it we'd have to work on I don't I didn't have any issues the J description that idea but I things like at what point do we take people that we have volunteer on development and to me it's just spending issue it's like when do we stop raising taxes that's really what it's about like at what point do we say we work with what we have creating jobs and spending more money at what point do we stop we're there we're there I know okay everybody can I stop for now please please go back in order now so um Mr M yeah I guess I I question it not 100% from that perspective though it is a good question because um you know we do have to always be mindful of the tax rate and you know we just went through um the presentation from the the board of assessors and we voted a tax classification of one um and I guess I always view this role and you know I did review the job description I got a thousand comments maybe not half a thousand she's got a thousand um but I think it's more it's philosophical more than it is you know editing the job description is what's the goal here and what is the objective and I always viewed the [Music] role to of as a select as a select board member that's one of your jobs is to represent the town and when an when an economic either to go and help seek out economic activities that will be beneficial to the town or be receptive to and and work with economic opportunities as if they're presented some good some bad believe me I I'm I'm probably the best suited to tell you I've been through some of the good ones and some of the bad ones um and it's kind of part and partial of this job and in you know as far as is um I think one of the issues that we have as a town is that there's not a great and I to be honest with you I think it has to do a little bit with the layout of town hall is that there's no place to walk into town hall and there's a desk that you can talk to some one at the front desk and get pointed in the right direction you either get pointed at the Town Clerk or the assessors or up down and sideways a lot of towns kind of have a a more open plan or something that direct people to more um you know to get people the resources they want I don't I don't think that there's businesses that have come to town that walked away because they didn't get the information that they were looking for and I think that we as a town as part of the master plan and as part of the master plan implementation committee can probably drive at some of this and it does it does talk to this a little bit in the master plan I just don't know that we're we and we certainly do need need the services of a town planner you know we've had a part-time Town planner now for the better part of 20 plus years um and I I definitely think we need to replace that role and I don't know but I don't know if elevating that role to making it a full-time role by adding the role of of you know economic development director is the is the right answer um and you know a lot of this comes you know I saw a lot of in in the change that were being proposed by to the the job description has posted was you know a lot of it wraps around Economic Development commission which we've talked about um even just here just now um and I think it creates a bit of a um a quandry because this person doesn't really report to the economic development commission yet I can completely see that that Economic Development commission want to commanding control over this position um and we need to talk that through and to see how that would all work out but I think it's part of our role on the select board you know is to be to be that champion for the residents and businesses and potential businesses that want to come to Southwick and you know you have to put on your sales hat a little bit to to discuss potential economic opportunities as a design and then bring it back to the board and through the CAO um and the other departments um and then you know guide that through the rest of the process whether it's conservation or planning or or EDC or wherever um and you know I I I don't disagree with some of the comments from the audience about you know looking at the overall cost impact as we've added you know as we continually you know this needs to you know frankly the whole thing needs to go through the budget process and get funded at at a town meeting before we hire and I don't think you know I know Mr Goddard wants to move on to his new role um and he could and then we just are out a planner and I get it and I think we need to figure that out how we staff that position but this is not this we can't possibly hire this role without it going through the budget cycle and then posting the job and hiring it after an annual town meeting where it's it's been vetted and funded and discussed um because if not even if we have like I said if we have the money in the budget because of other other things that we have some money in the budget that we could fund it until town meeting well no one in their right mind would take this job that it may end on June 30th um and I and I'm not completely sold on the fact that the town our town in the situation that it's in um Economic Development wise and growth-wise need a full-time you know advancement person or economic development director it's not it's part-time because it's split with the planner position it's not what's your opinion on a full-time planner it it waxes and waines right it goes with the economy it goes there's times when the planning board has an absolute full plate of residential subdivisions commercial applications special permits and they are flat out and then they can go six months with you know with very little or a year depending on it as the economy goes and it tends to lag but um you know I think that there's work that needs to be done on the planning board um they have a lot around um that had to be Mrs Thorton they have a lot of work to do around um by substantive bylaw changes that have been uh brought to the attention of the Town um either by applicants or by the courts and we you know they need to address those but I think once they get that you know they're going to bring in a consultant and they're going to bring in someone to to work with them on that and frankly I don't think that they're at the point that they need a full-time planner idem so and and I guess you're so is is the corollary to that the question is okay if you need a part-time planner and a part-time economic development director is that is that a full-time person that that's kind of the Crux the question and I don't I don't necessarily think so that's what we're here to discuss it exactly I don't see a qualified part-time planner coming to town I mean John is John has a full-time job here already as planner and stormw coordinator we're kind of not super involved with the whole planning process with recommendation of the zoning to the planning board and steering and driving the planning board and to um you know the decisions that they make I mean I wasn't here for any of the public hearings um but I can see you know the planning board who are elected get make those decisions obviously I feel in towns that have planners with the guidance and the direction of the experienced professional planner I know some of those stems from some of the problems we're having and some of the developments and you know we with no oversight but that well I disagree because I think don't I'm not throwing the the um you know that's also a zoning Enforcement issue and I'm not throwing him under the bus part of the part of when you approve a subdivision and you had a third party review it and they did the storm water work you know and mapped it out and you post a bond there should be a third party that's keeping an eye on that subdivision through the process to make sure it conforms to the special permit and it's being constructed in the timelines and you know I've yet to see a a subdivision in the town of Southwick be built within the timeline that they say it's going to be built with one loan exception which was Fen um Mr Russo but um you know I don't think that that's a function of the planning board once they've rendered their decision and they they produced a special permit the special permit is has the effect of zoning on that parcel and then it goes on to the zoning enforcement officer or the building inspector in the town of Southway um you know so I don't think that that's the issue I think the and and I also slightly disagree in the fact that we just came through a two plus year ordeal of major soul searching and major review of the master plan by a a wide a atium of Consortium of folks from different disciplines and walks of life to come and produce that master plan which is guidance for all of these boards um not just the planning board and that's part and parcel of Economic Development Economic Development does not happen at the planning board there's a whole bunch of other folks involved um and that's why I think um you know from my my perspective from the select board and at the CEO level where you kind of have that that 10,000 foot view is where you can be a champion for development in the town of Southwick and drive at different things and work with the mic in order to you know the mic is calling out certain things that they want that they feel that the master plan wants to see happen for South B 2040 and how you get from here to there and I think that that that's a Guiding Light and you know planning has their work cut out and yeah they are you know and they are a duly elected Board of fiveyear terms longer than us for a reason because some of their stuff takes that long to get done um and and the planner is supposed to provide even continuity on top of that board so and you know we've done them you know I think Mr Goddard was here quite a while um and he's done a good job of bridging that Gap as members come and go um and I don't know I don't know that we've gotten you know maybe we need to look at what you know what the um you know the overall comp would be for a part-time planner and that that adjustment could be looked at but I don't know that I I don't know that we're at the point that need a economic development director as part of the plan my op could I just clarify one thing I I totally respect everything that you say I just do believe that the planning board does follow through they don't they don't just say here's your here's your comprehensive subdivision plan and go build it I think that they follow through until it's built and the developer comes back and you have your your your peer engineer and they're saying okay the storm water cels work they don't up until completion of that street and acceptance to the town I think the planning board is very much involved oh they have been in all be clear no and having served 15 plus years on the planning board and worked on bringing roads that were not accepted by you know previous subdivisions for all of those 15 years I couldn't agree more and that wasn't the impression I was trying to give but what I'm saying is that they also are not engineers and they're not going to be out there taking core samples out there or deciding which pipe should go around a tree versus through a tree type of thing um but you know so there's responsibilities that lie in multiple places and yet it's up to someone else to come back and the planning board should hold the administrative part of the hearing to reduce a bond but it should be with concurrence with DPW Andor the consult and the zoning enforcement officer to go you know or building inspector to go yeah that the road was put incorrectly the the sidewalks are putting correctly you know and if you take a look at um you know and I don't want to you know I'm I I spoke about Mr Russo but you know that the folks at the the South bck Country Club you know the greens they've done a great job right they came back in front there was some you know some stuff they needed to fix but you know that that was put in they applied they got their permit they went through the process they then petitioned to have their bonds reduced the road accepted and you know and we moved that through to the end you know the the uh Noble Ste is you know that's typical of what happens when the developer gets in maybe you know maybe I'm out over my skis but they get in a little over their head or the E you know the economics of everything change due to covid and a bunch of other things and costs go crazy um and you you know we owe the residents a duty to make sure that that stuff is done as they as was proposed to the town to be done but I also don't think it's the planning boards 100% that's their job and I don't think you know a fulltime Town planner is going to make a a big difference in that outcome at the end of the day I think that's there's more resources that need to be brought to be um as part and parcel of that I'm looking at it more of like you know there's certain you know we want to grow certain businesses we want to continue to grow out the the um for example the uh industrial par you know Randy is has championed and I fully support the expansion of Hudson Drive and connecting that through to Sam West and opening up that at that point you know we have to try to find some folks to occupy that land right um do that how do we actively do that well there's resources available passive any in a way but there's been resources come to us and ask because yeah because we're not doing this full time either y but there's resources available from the state um you know the state has an economic development arm they have several quasi municip quasi governmental organizations involved in where we're part-time yeah I haven't actively recruited any business I can honestly say that actively tried to recruit I did but and we interested in coming but you know I don't know what's happened since then I you know it's and I I understand what Mr mland saying and I I I enjoy that part of it you know which improving Southwick and bringing things to Southwick you know but I I but nobody's focused on it this this position would be focused on that I understand that Mr chair may I add to this conversation may I be heard uh I will acknowledge Miss thoron from the planning board thank you very much um I was quite excited when I heard about the expansion of the Town planners rooll hours and also the potential uh for the combination for an economic development I hear uh Miss St jock Mr moglin and Mr deei and their concerns for expanding such a role in the costs associated with that as a member of the planning board for the past six and a half seven years I have spent many hours of my own time rewriting bylaws editing meeting minutes having discussions with Town planners both of the Town planners that I've had the opportunity to work with assisting the secretaries when we've had them I've spent many hours doing the job of a town planner we have asked a lot of the two gentlemen who have worked a part-time wage earning job and have done full-time work after hours not just at meetings I've received emails from both planners outside of their working hours in order to keep up with the workload that we have given them in these not so certain Economic Times I have not ever had more than a month or two on this planning board where I have not had a meeting last at least an hour and a half it's a joke now but it wasn't always that way as Mr moglin can attest to because he had some times of lull during his time on the board I have not had that luxury I've spent three and a half to four hours at a meeting both in person and on Zoom we have had Verizon cell tower issues we we've had carvana issues we are in the upcoming months going to be working on the Adu bylaw which as Mr moggin says comes from the state the heavy hand of the state so let's not look to them for economic development opportunities right um we have a lot of work to do some that we're going to be forced to do because of legal action and some that we have been asked to do by the impacct committee and by the town residents to implement an mic and to have that Master plan do the job it's supposed to do which is an all-encompassing task that involves not just town planning and foresight when it comes to that but as well as the economic development portion of it in order to sustain the growth all around that we have both not just in our econ commercial and Industrial but as well as our residential areas we ask a lot of our town employes here and I think at the bare minimum the town planner job should have an increase of hours whether it becomes full-time or not whether it becomes Incorporated with economic development it is needed now it was needed two years ago and it should be done as soon as possible Mr Godard has the right to move on to his new position and I don't hope that he does so and leaves us bereft because we have a lot of work to do and it ain't going to stop while we drag our heels figuring out another job description and whether or not we're going to pay for the work that's actually being done on behalf of the citizens of this town thank you thank you Miss stor I see this position as really an an oversight over that whole master plan all I can Envision on that Master Plan it's got a great andp pick implementation committee um but I just see a bridge being built here and a bridge being built here and we're not going to meet unless there's somebody involved in both sides of that equation to make sure they meet this position at this time seems to fill that need at least as an overseer to make all those pieces come together in an organized way will have the bridge to nowhere and and again I I had asked that question of the new CAO hoping we were going to be able to shift some things but the burden is the burden in that position that can't really take that on but that person can report there and report to us and again we're not actively going out and looking for businesses and it has to be and I don't view it as an un an un expense that's an investment in the future of the town to make it come out right not an expense there's a difference all right any further discussion for today on this I'm exhausted something we can talking about we've got budget hearings and we you know decide what we need to do with it um that was old business I guess we should keep it under old business and you know progress the [Music] conversation um was it nen any old business I did ask everybody else right no you started with me this time go around the table now I have no other old business no Mr M uh very brief unusual for me I just want to S thank the South Fire Association they had their awards banquet this past weekend he's very well attended he left already um and it was great to see them recognize um the members of the department that have gone above and beyond and um they had some great they have some great members over there um on that team and uh I didn't even know some of the stuff that they had that they awarded some of their folks for including a couple of life-saving awards so um kudos to them thank you I have nothing Nicole nothing D nope that's it other than it's Thanksgiving everybody have a good holiday yeah the town hall will be closed Thursday and Friday we have no executive yeah we have no we do we do we do we do okay all right well then point we will be going into executive session you Ain going home it's on the other side of your agenda probably back side no the back side select yeah there's next week