good evening it's um April 8th at 7.m call the meeting of the South Wick Board of the heels um we have a minutes in attendance tonight we have Paul gregar me member Paul greguar uh associate member shant Tobias associate member Mike parent member and vice chairman Bill Liss member and chairman Chris masani and SEC secretary Wendy Cordo uh everyone is here the uh the uh meeting is hybrid meeting is being broadcast on zoom and recorded on zoom and is also an auto audio recording being done TV over there we have uh some signatures to do and we have some minutes from February 26 to review quickly and then the uh only item on the agenda is a preliminary review of an application for 55 Foster Road so once we get to our paperwork issues here we will um take up take up that discussion there your that's so good to me a motion to accept had second two com two comments not uh okay not corrections but just comments it says the chairman will be in contact with the planning board regarding the property the chairman did not do that because the chairman didn't want to open a can of worms before it needed to be open okay and uh brief discussion of two lak mon stre which may come before the board Wendy says that that no application has been uh put in in that so those those are the only two comments nothing nothing new correction so uh we have a motion to accept the meeting minutes just uh one one comment um my recollection was the chairman will contact were you going to contact the attorney or you said you were going to contact someone Town planner the town planner because we we had rejected the yeah yeah so I I consider him part of the planning board so okay I think that that's accurate so we have we have a motion to accept and we have a second everyone in favor I evening minutes from February 26 are accepted this I can see um we get that but uh Westfield news thing signed gave no only three right okay we have a new application for 55 Foster Road the uh the applicant is the same gentleman that is in the process of developing 19 Foster Road we may remember that and being the uh the real messy one with the trailer is it a trailer is it a mobile home is it uh is it abandon uh kind of stuff and a couple um couple sheds on there um I noticed just recently the trailer was finally gone out of there I don't know what what happened to it tried to sell I was glad to see that it was gone because when I went by about four or six weeks ago it was still there so uh it's a s this is a similar situation uh it's a small lot with a lot of wetlands I guess there's actually a a river back there I know you call it a river yeah I don't know if it's a seasonal technically maybe is seasonal River or or what it is but uh so we pinched to the front for that and then obviously the street is there it's a it's in zone R20 so the front setback requirement is 75 ft the the application requesting a variance of 30 feet so a setback of 70 of 45 feet would be the the net on that uh I have a few comments that I'll throw out there before uh just open up the stuff this little plan that that he submitted looks like the house is 50 ft from from the uh from the street from the property line so have to find out what the discrepancy is on that there's no mention of input from the Conservation Commission which I assume that they're going to have to get involved some other time all other setbacks seem to be fine sides backs and uh square footage and Frontage all that that seems to be okay so it would just be this one one setback that they looking for Relief on um the property line based on the stakes that are there look like it's about 8 ft from the road just an observation that that lot is really up high from the street well High I don't know about 10 ft or something in the street yeah so I'm curious whether he's going to excavate through there or put it put the lot on put the house on top and you know just curious what the what the plan is you know have a short slope driveway so that that's question I'm going to have um I'd like to see an a house plan elevation to see what it's going look like on the street and then the application references these uh Wetlands protection act section 10583 I was miraculously able to find something about that on the Massachusetts general laws and these extremely dense type of things but it basically says what what he quoted here that if if you're within 200 feet of a river you can have a devel 500 square feet of it or 10% whichever whichever is greater that's that's something new to me I don't I don't think I've ever encountered that I don't know if you back it says that if you're within 200 foot R Riverfront area the assuming Authority may allow the alteration of up to 5,000 square fet or 10% of the riverfront area within the lot whichever is greater so yeah like I'm saying that that that's that's new to me I mean I'm familiar somewhat with the Wetland buffers and all that stuff but the just the the uh bylaws that been cited on here were or something that I I hadn't seen before oh he's calling it a river probably that's why he's using that particular article yeah yeah it's got a river seem a flood plane area for sure Wetlands for sure there's a live stream back there it's been there for years yeah classific so if you go into stream they would go into Wetlands protection and you wouldn't be able to get what he wants or an intermittent stream right call them either way it's you got 200 foot buffer from that right so and we've given relief that to some point but it he's looking for a lot is it 200 fet buffer from the yeah from the Wetland we' gone 100 we've gone 75 so on this map right here this map right here doesn't that run through here the river I'm guessing behind the house I'm guessing it's the property line in the back since the property line is all twisty like that I don't think I don't think the property line would would be like that if it wasn't if the river wasn't the property line but that's approximately where yeah I mean the last the last page this is the last diagram show pretty oh so kind of follows on but all this blue is all FL PL oh okay more than half the lot yeah flood PL and it's elevated and it's still flood that's all you know it's wet back so as a plan board would they you you were talking about the front what if they took the front and pushed you know took five feet off and push it back towards that wet L you can't push that soil that's what the Conservation Commission will have to give relief on that side he's looking for Relief on the front side from us yeah um I'm just G to say something how much does he need in the back I don't know it's there's no U our TR on the diagram he makes the point on this diagram here that the other houses and I noted as I went down there the other houses are very close to the street he says this one's 35 and that one's 25 they were built under a completely different set of rules right but one of our criteria is if it doesn't go different than the whole neighborhood and yeah um consider that but right doesn't requ anything right right yeah it's tough our bylaw sell us for the rear rear set pack Old Chart you your set pack has to be 40 ft that's all yeah side 10 can he do that without the needing extra extra room up front 40 ft well that's 40 ft from the property line he's much farther away from the property line than that it's a case of how far he is from the Wetland yeah well and I don't I don't know exactly where the delineation of the wetlands is on the thought it was 100 so the L this is the I call the stream let say it's not a river it's a stream yeah but that stream is his boundary in the back okay so it's half it's more almost half the lot right is you know so he's got to go 100 feet here see what I'm saying yeah so his 40 foot's not going to be there because he's to have 100 plus he's 140t says 185 to this okay to this the bumper I I don't know it shows to I know two Dimensions there and I don't know doesn't scale right no it doesn't this doesn't need Frontage right it only has 100 Frontage this says no 200 200 yeah so that's that's a a problem if if you follow the a guy he's going to very Rel back there he's going to need more that's the problem okay I mean I see seven you know whatever is L next to it that's probably scale that and you look at down here that's also that's the house we just built no this way way down there on the other that just for reference there there the house that I don't know this yeah the house that that we approved the house that we approved that for his last application at 19 Foster Road we allowed a variance of 35 ft so that he would be 40t from the property line so after that why would you want to get in the back when you could show me back well we VAR to the back end yeah but the he's on the back end he's restricted by the wetlands not by the back not frun by the property line but you gave him you allowed him 40 feet in the back D and not this one the other one you allowed him 40 fet in the back and then you gave a variance of front I'm not I'm not following you I don't the back wasn't part of the variance on the on the on the last one was just the front right it wasn't it was just wasn't but was that 40t that you by law yeah was that into any land all I don't maying up the wrong tree here because I don't I don't know I didn't work on that one well I I assume we we gave him the that bearings in the front because he couldn't go back any part because of the wet LNG I don't I don't know what that number was yeah the 42 was not away they had to give them something that VAR to the back keep away from the front but anyway it's done it's done yeah these dots are all 250 ft deep so it's not a it's I think didn't he build a smaller house because we were concerned about that the back how close he would come that for some reason possibly he gave a different plan originally I have I've written down 1900 square feet on this so I now he doesn't have the acreage correct doesn't have one acor yeah it does Acres that's hous is yeah there's 42,000 he has 42,800 ft and he needs 40,000 one acre one acre is correct it just happens to fall into picture oh yeah on this on this diagram of his here I think I just figured out that there's a triangle drawn in the lower left hand corner and it says area outside the 200t river front so I think that that triangle is the 200 ft oh this limit yeah from from the water from the stream or whatever you want to call shaded triangle yeah the highest point this 200 ft is this shaded oh oh okay I see and that's area outside of 200 so it looks like I could that's where he's needing to leave to put the house back because he couldn't put it that far forward right right because if he went into that triangle where he's supposed to be he wouldn't be able to put a house in he wouldn't be able to put a house for where this this is the safe area yeah so he's looking for the relief to push the house back build the house do know what I mean yeah so that triangle so this is the safe area the 200 feet buffer he wants to relief so we can push the house back out of it towards the Wetland so it's only a very small portion that's that's correct that's buildable yeah okay so uh all this back here is Wetlands right so to me uh you know you're you're you're pushing the red line there you know you've already got you got a lot that's problem and anything he does on is going to be a problem but you know I've seen the conservation committee give variances for so so what's his hardship get out of the Wetland yeah you shouldn't have bought the proper that's not the hardship well he didn't I don't think he bought it yet he's under contract if he gets this he's going to buy it which is fine but Point Paul says lot's located the wetlands located by basically dramatically limits the square footage of a lot that can be used okay yeah it does so don't buy that I mean there's open space for a reason sometimes and A lot's just not going to be buildable and you know I I don't see it like it's you know going to be better for the neighborhood if we stick the house in the street so that other one I didn't even like the last one I was out of that one because I refused myself involved that oh yeah CU you were inol but that other one that's on Hillside I think you guys worked on building did you guys work with conservation as in you know they gave a little you gave a little well not directly but it end end it ends up working out that way yeah there there's never a in my experience there's never a joint meeting where you you down and negotiate and that's part of the problem we should that yeah I didn't know if they went to the conservation first and they go to us and then we say what the arrow point gos like nothing happens unless we give them the relief he wants and then they get to decide if they can do it you know what I'm saying so we give them we give them the okay to go to the conservation okay okay I got relief now will you let me put this there they could still say no gotta even if we say yes that's why it ends up usually being in that situation play at least two meeting you know he come he comes here and says I need I I need the house 50 ft and I we say no you we're going to force you to be 60 so then he goes to the conation commission and I need 10 more feet and said well we're going to give you 120 we can give you 110 so my opinion on this if this was developed which I think we've seen those and he wanted to add on or put a deck or something for safety I would be more inclined to work with it but this is a lot that has nothing he's asking for a lot to get he's going to sell it he's not living so he's developing it in a hardship you can't he's making money with it the hardship is he can't get as much money for it cuz he can't develop it so that's not a hardship um he's in a very bad piece of property that is severely disadvantaged with water we've had plenty of them this town that you just can't do anything with it like you know like common driveway it but but it's true I mean if he had a house there that was grandfathered in at some point and it got wetter because of whatever and okay I need to work with this oh we'll give you we'll try to help you and now he's asking for new construction with a lot that is not qualified put a house on whatsoever I mean if you need a 10 foot or 5 foot if he needs 40 feet that's a lot no he needs 30 well 30 feet okay whatever it's still a lot right to give because he wants to make money developing it right you you set it's up on the hill it you go back suppose conation push the hill back and do a little fill who I said that's a major no no of redeveloping where the water goes you be changing the aquifer yeah you know you start building BMS put a bowl so my is dry now that's what they used to do I didn't walk the property but based on a topography that Hill is is not very deep I mean it just goes you it's like may like a burm it's like a the new septic tanks you know you had like the rise that's what it looks like yeah Lee Fields in the front then you get to the land but get wet if you look at the numberb that's what the other guy had to do is build his his um thing in the front on the side there yeah where where would he put his set that the the other guy had to put it to the front you know those questions go for other departments not us but but we enter that door um for me I got a problem emping that door to give them problem to build something that should have been built yeah and it puts pressure on the other other boards to say whoa they gave him permission so we got to do something you know what I mean we we say no he's not going to buy the land and it sits there open property buy another piece I mean it's cheap but why is it cheap because there's not much you can do with it and people know that they're selling it for 50 Grand that's an acre that's a $100,000 $70,000 piece of property they're giving it away because they know you know they can't do anything with it put a shed in the front or a garage that's about it you can't do that either well you could in that front quadrant you could do something but then you got a bunch of relief right house plus that's what not even he's going to do a a raise Ranch you had the garage under that's what he'll do you know to fit it if we give it to them because it's maximize space for living but again I think it's that's kind of making the against the whole guys of we're making a more non-conforming a lot more non-conforming by getting really that's my take y now we've been through this with nonconforming lots with the ranch house or you know where they triy to give them try to work something for them but this is nothing it's been developed and why are we going to push that to be developed to raise revenue I mean tax it's not for the right reasons my I don't know yeah that's my position but I'm one person so I'm voicing my opinion I'm a half person one I don't I don't see the I don't see the advantage other than him making I guess I I look at it a little bit differently in that uh we can't we shouldn't say you can get zero variance we should be able to say well we'll give you 10 feet or we'll give you 20 ft or we give you 15 ft or something and say you know that that's that's the best we can do and then throw it wall to uh and see conservation you can't because even if gave him 20 ft he's got more what was that I don't know what the scale is from that line back here there 15 20t the back of the house yeah I'm not I'm not I mean if you're saying Chris push this up so it gets inside that square I give them this less nothing specific just just some number okay and and say you know all right we can we can live with a with a 50ft setback instead of a 75t setback and let him let them have to deal with it right rather than saying no we we can't give you any any setback CU that sounds unrealistic to me I my only question is are we biting off more than is our privy I mean they're only asking us about this what's the hardship well they're asking us to go backwards and they said that the there land is not buildable behind them that's always been there right that doesn't change topography doesn't change the slow Condition it's been there right it's not going to create any more he just he can't create what he wants because he's not going to get enough relief your point if you say Hey you get have a portion of it well that's not enough no well not our problem right that's the best we can do agree with that taking off us looking at well this is not gonna do I mean I'm not sure that that's our job I I think yeah I I agree with Mike I think we could just decide on what what number between zero and and 30 what number between Z and 35 would we give them a variance for where's the red line was it matter if you give him anything or give them all of it at that point didn't let them chips fall somewhere else to your point we are not requ I think the Conservation Commission makes that decision right yes but the reason it comes here first is because if we don't think that it's feasible they don't have to worry about it so we're just pushing it to them at B we're going to kick the can and say yeah we'll give you the mention you go fight it up with them and if he gets it he gets it but to some extent that's what our job is is to determine whether we're going to give them that variance right and I say no or or to your point give him 20 feet well that's that's or 25 feet why half you know why then then what is he gonna do with it because you can't do anything with it anyway even if you got 25 Fe he to conservation and say okay that's not our problem to M well if we if we agree to 20t it's not problem yeah and what is the number what are you comfortable with well that's that's why we have two weeks to to come to ter and what I'm saying is it's like a prison you know you either get parole or you don't and what is that what is the what is the we'll give you 10 weeks parole then you gotta come back you know I don't know why we would just go with all just say here take your 35 ft and go good luck that's why we're having full marriage yeah I know we all well kind of yeah so we we cut down on thean the back and forth when when the applicant is here but you know at least that's how I look on the purpose of it so that so that we're not arguing among our ourselves and we have a a little bit more efficient discussion with you know when when the applicant comes here so that's unless you could tell us something very drastically different from what he's saying here it's not a river the one well I don't know about that statute that would qualify yeah I don't um I don't know how that's and all he's doing to push that so we would give him the relief that's what he's phrasing it for but again I'm very cynical maybe my relevant to well because he could use that statute then he get more relief if he calls the river you get more Rel 10% Conservation Commission goes it's not us you come up with a number here godess of whatever he bulldo is into the river that's so to your point he doesn't need 30 feet right needs 40 based on and then look at that triangle of depth that he's trying to fit into I that's a really boxed that's a small area to develop I mean the house is barely in that Tri that's what I mean most of outside that if he gets the variance he gets to push it further towards that triangle and get more of it in there you know so it's a it's chest how much does he you saying 50 ft yeah I think it's it's about that you know well that's what it said but he says it's not going to give him a backyard on top of it even if he gets that just say get a canoe for the backyard simp it's a mudbog trucks you water a lot of people pay big bugs for waterf yeah right you create it a good rainstorm you got water Farm but I even think in my opinion even developing that get found conservation he's going to change the the water table yes he is all right but again you know it's not our problem so that that 5,000 ft he talking about yeah square foot because yeah down so you could develop a yard with that AB I I I mean I don't know what the what what a favorable try to you know help at all you know it's like where does the line it's 10 or 15 or 20 to 30 you know well is it is it a a percentage you know like we've done the size of the house a lot you know you can do a percentage of the the relief but well where where um what's the comfort that you want what's you'd give them 30 40 something I don't I don't think we should get into specifics in this meeting because it's not a public hearing I think that uh I think we should think about what our individual Comfort level is I would if I had a put a out of number I'd say 20 ft 20 20 or 25 ft if I was in a generous move of of variance so he would be 50 feet from the property line 50 feet from the property line and 33 feet from the street so he would with that variance he'd be able to sneak that well the front corner I don't about the back corner you have to change the size of the house I'm not really worried about because you notice there's a there is a garage down there so he's doing like a raise ranch or garage under or something you just say you going to give him 25 put him in 50 ft 50 ft from the property line and an additional 8 ft from the street so instead of 75 he'd have 50 set back if you gave him 25 but you're saying there's another 8 ft that's the difference between the property line and the street yeah that's and the pavement or the sidewalk oh if or is there a sidewalk that's not an official number it's it's just if if something was going to work in his favor it's it's more in his favor that it's 8 feet from the street then it's then then the pavement is at the property line the street line versus the property L right you can have him go back and make sure he have Stakes so we can measure oh that cost me money I'm G get conservational about that anyway but yeah I mean from I80 to one it's right there okay Chris you're saying 25 variance that's what you said yeah that's that's what you're throwing out putting as as a compromise best let's say personally I would be comfortable and give say hey know we can't do 35 we'll do 25 you go you go negotiate it with the with the Conservation Commission I mean it's got to be a unanimous thing that's that's that's my opinions not on board with that PA was not on board all then I I just left to hear with these guys coming in with this what's that I said I've had it to guys well we can't get you know every case is different so it's over give it to me I'm here I mean I get it wouldn't give him a one he wouldn't give him a one foot variant I might consider one or eight foot the 8 foot variant give the relief from the Rope so I mean the gist of our argument is that this is really not a build buildable lot right so what you two guys are saying absolutely because the buildable Lots right here did you but I'm just not sure if that's our privy to say if it's a build of a lot or not asking variant for you can do for that go see the billi see what he said did a buildable L that that he probably not build what are we basing our decision not to give them a variance numbers it can't be that it's not a buildable lot no I mean you can't give them enough to give him what he wants to get a buildable that guy in a corner down there can say it's not a that's for sure that's his job that's his job and he's just say no you got to go see to get relief which they prob did that's why he's coming Mr Sten all right I'll try to contact yeah I mean if you show them this and say what do you think yeah I mean literally so your road is right here right yeah you got 8 feet and then if you say 50 ft it's close you'd be right I mean think all of it would fit in that's the problem you know you're talking about he wants to go way back here yeah see I'm not even thinking about what's what fits in where I'm just saying I could if I'm if I'm driving down the street I wouldn't mind seeing a house that's 50 feet from the property line that that's that's all I'm that's all I'm concerned okay everything else yeah right he can't make that work that's that's his problem are you going to see the building inspector I will try to contact them yeah maybe he's heard of this I don't know so I'll find out hear anything okay well that's that's what I want to accomplish is just to get uh everybody up to speed on that yeah so everything else there's no other aggregate for re or anything else you fix that would allit in okay okay um I don't have any anything else nothing else motion to adjourn motion to adjourn in a second everyone in favor I journe