welcome to tonight's meeting of the sparta Township planning board on behalf of the members of the entire planning board and our professionals we'd like to thank all the people that are here in person as well as to those who may be streaming the meeting either now or later on YouTube this meeting is now called to order for the record this meeting is being held on June 19th 2024 at the sparta Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is now 6:36 uh I'm sorry yeah 6:31 the live stream for this meeting may be viewed on YouTube at www.youtube.com at spart Sparta Township which is sp p a r t awp please note that adequate public meeting of this notice was given in accordance with the open public meetings act so um before we salute the flag tonight I let you to take a moment to recognize the importance of this day June juneth juneth is celebrated annually to commemorate the ending of slavery in our United States juneth has since grown to be recognized and celebrated as a multi Multicultural holiday in many places with that in mind I ask that everyone please stand join our board and our professionals as we proudly begin this meeting with a salute to our nation's flag flag United States America the stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all all right thank you everybody um and before we take the roll call uh I just ask that everyone please give me join me in a round of applause to congratulate our recently appointed planning board members John Ferman Brian zimman who have successfully completed and passed the state of New Jersey's basic law course and land law and planning so congratulations with that Miss Fox could you please call the rooll Justin Canalis here Ernie r here Christine Dunbar here Mike Sylvester here Vice chairman bill enr here chairman Ronde here Deputy Mayor Dean blti here Joan Ferman here Janette Burke here celest Luciano here Brian zman here okay thank you all right so tonight we'll be starting off by holding an executive session to have attorney uh client uh PR Communications pertaining to uh om1 Holdings LLC versus Sparta Township planning board and um and also uh to Mr Adrien merman versus the sparta Township planning board Travis surf pa uh dror veterinary medicine trading as spart Veterinary Associates and Urgent Care and HCS Holdings LLC authorization to hold the executive session is set forth in resolution uh number 204 uh 20242 Mr Brady would be acting as the record uh the attorney record for this executive session so welcome Mr Brady and please let the record show that Mr Collins has recused himself on this matter so may I have a motion to approve resolution number 20241 12-12 make a motion Dory roll call please Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Janette Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes Justin Canalis yes celest luano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman yes chairman Ronde yes right the motion to approve 202 412 is passed the board will now be going into an executive session so I'm going to ask that um members of the public if you could step out and our plan is to uh be back in session as close to seven as we can get there okay thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e this not sure a motion to return [Music] welcome back micr on Zoom okay okay could I have a motion to go back into public session I'll make a motion second second I may have a roll call Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Janette Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enri yes Joan Ferman yes Justin caneles yes celest Luciano yes yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes Brian Zimmerman yes chairman R yes okay welcome back everybody we just uh concluded the executive session um uh there was no action taken um so this would now bring us into the public hearing portion of the meeting um so when you look at the agenda I I just want to acknowledge uh Dory for all her work Dory and and and uh Mr Tom for you know helping us work through the any items we have on our on our our agenda um so looking at what's on the agenda now we show one two three four five six hearings for tonight um I think I know we have some updates um Can someone just give us an update on where we are and which ones have been pushed and what we need to do Tom do you want me to take that we have application pb24 d715 Behringer Corporation 10 Aaron way that will be carried to the June 26th meeting and we also have pb2 24717 Lakeland Bank that too has been carried to the June 26th meeting um would you mind yeah thanks okay so in terms of tonight that leaves us with um plus Holdings uh first uh we'll do uh from there hopefully move into JP Morgan Chase Bank from there we'll probably move into St labs and then we'll uh we'll look into possibly starting J jvp Ventures uh time permitting um anybody have any questions is there anybody want let anybody um from uh any of the other applications wish to maybe rethink if you want to stay with tonight or not okay we we'll proceed okay so uh first application we heard is uh planning board application 708 submitted by plus Holdings LLC this is being carried from May 15 meeting the applications for an apartment building in the TCC Zone uh welcome back folks thank you Mr chairman uh for the record if this works uh Brian shasi clear jacobe alfer and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant FL Holdings I know you have a heavy agenda we've been here a while so I'll bring you up to speed where we were at uh last hearing on May 15th we heard testimony from Robert McNerney and Kalisto Burton we stopped uh Kalisto Burton's testimony uh after board question questions Mr Simmons indicated at that point in time that Mr Burton with the revised site provided a Revis site plan exhibit which was marked as A6 which was uh the colored version of the site plan through uh May 15 so Mr Simmons was satisfied we just need to finish up with Mr Burton there were any additional board questions or public questions in addition uh based upon feedback we received we we did change the roof line of the building and submitted revised renderings to the board those were dropped off on Monday so we do have a full-size rendering that we could Mark through Mr mcnerney's testimony and he also has brought some samples of the Hardy plank so hopefully we won't spend a lot of time and we can show you what we're proposing to do so there were new renderings dropped off on Monday uh it should be in your packet package and what that does Mr chairman is that we added a roof line around all four sides or I should say the remaining three sides of the building and we added some Dormer amenities uh to the rear and the sides of the building as was requested by the bo so you do have your and the shutters the shutters yes I remember the shutters and I don't know if you heard me Mr chairman when you said welcome back I said I started this when it was snowing so unless there are any questions Mr chairman we could turn it over to Mr Burton for any additional questions okay so um just if I can just based on the new renderings I'd like to just give the the professional a chance to ask see if there any questions relative to the Mr M ner will testify to that I just wanted to finish with Mr he'll be up here explain what was done the differences and then we can certainly get into those questions at that time all right so I guess the way we left it last time was was the um the questions are now with the Das here at the board and then we'll open up to the public right there were some board questions Mr chairman I don't know if there if there were any uh whether those were completed uh on the at the 15th here okay just the professionals so relative to uh Mr Burton's uh last testimony why don't we start just I'm GNA start down year in this time any questions that you have no uh no questions no question so just to be clear we're focusing on engineering now not architecture correct corre I don't want to go there no question with the updated roof line does that change where the air conditioning units or anything uh regarding the HVAC systems they'll they'll explain it but I think the answer is no that's more architecture than engineering yeah yeah because that's on the roof the condensers else oh sorry Brian start your in oh I'm sorry uh no uh not currently have to apologize some of us are missing the new rendering in the yeah we want to you have questions all right I was just going to ask one um and it was a question that came from an audience member last time to the architect and the architect deferred to the civil engineer so on their behalf I would just like to pose it they said that there was um the fire trucks cannot get in the back of the building there is no access for it correct so um could you just please explain if there is a fire in the rear of the building how it would be accessed well the fire truck gets to the front of the building the building code doesn't require access all around the building because the building is fully sprinklered the purpose of the sprinkler system is so people can evacuate and that's that's that's what it is so so they they can walk around the back they could bring a ladder around the back but they can't bring a truck and it's not required by code okay and the hose can reach or they would go through the building uh yes yeah well there's there like I said there's a sprinkler system and a standpipe system and I think we have a fire department Connection in the front the stand pipe is in the front yeah okay so just worrying about the water pressure in the back if you had to bring a hose that far I don't know I just thought it was a good question so I was just going to ask it on their behalf before we get to construction documents I mean it's got to get reviewed by the building department and plumbing and fire code would all be part of that all right thank you you might have answered this but if if you did I forgot the answer to it uh the question can you just describe the screening plan for the trash area just the visual kind I know it moved recent last time I had it moved can you just describe how it where again where it is and how it's going to be screen yes so as we last time we came in we we in addressing the question about access or pedestrian access we rearrange the parking lot a little bit so we have a a double trash enclosure that's masonry construction with a gate in the front and it's now located well um opposite the building in the lower right corner of the of the parking lot and as I said that'll be masonry and um this area downhill is is pretty wooded so we we have a sidewalk coming up to it and a sidewalk in front for pedestrian axis but the rest is wooded so you're really not going to see it from the road coming up but there's um and we planted a couple of Evergreens alongside of it it's it's far now now it's far from the building so it doesn't really require a lot more screening okay is that a dumpster that sits behind there yeah there's two two dumpsters inside the trash enclosure one for recycling and that's if we do Recycling and and one for garbage yeah okay and how high is the uh the wall six feet six feet okay which is standard okay um also I have I have a more general question and um I'm not sure uh Mr Collins maybe you can direct me if this is appropriate now I did want to go revisit the school bus the school bus question and the school kids and the bus stop and and the police report is that a appropriate for now or is that would you prefer to handle this later on no it's fine now yeah okay so I saw I reread the police report um you that there's no bus stop there um can you just talk through again how the how this will work how you envision is working for children have to go to school the reality is there is a bus stop at the bottom of the of the hill and it's it happens to be in the parking lot of the retail building uh next door to the site and that that that's how it operates now and it serves the area and that's how it would serve this building so I I that again that's the reality that the bus parks there and so um they can depending on the age older children would walk down the sidewalk maybe younger kids are in bad weather the parents would bring them down or walk down with them and they have their opportunity um if they Park they can't park in this driveway it's not wide enough for parking so either they wait in one in one of the parking lots like the area neighborhood does MH while the bus comes okay so my my understanding it's not really official it's not a bus stop you're saying the bus you you understand the bus stops there the bus goes there yeah it's not a a a New Jersey Transit bus stop it's a school bus stop and they pick where they Park where they stop yeah so and and our uh Mr mcnarney did contacted the school to find out where they stopped because we didn't know at the time that the bus stops right in front of the site M so I understand there's a bus stop across the street or down the road a little bit an official bus stop is oh maybe that's I understand well we also have asked the applicant and I believe the applicant is willing to allow uh title 39 to apply to the U parking lot in the driveway that means Motor Vehicle Enforcement is possible and the applicant also indicated willingness to ask the Board of Education to allow the bus to come on the property and go up to the front door but that's totally within the jurisdiction of the plan of the Board of Education which is an independent agency or governmental entity independent of the township and the uh board planning board so whether they'll do that is really their discretionary determination and the that would be a future event because it wouldn't even happen until there were school age people living in the building thank you Mr Collins that same that isn't that correct Mr okay so just to be clear Mr Collins part of the ml is the safety and a school bus and kids getting to the school bus is that not exactly part of the applic is that part of the applicant's responsibility to ensure that or to deliver that no not the board of education's busing I mean just in general the fact that kids might live there and have to get to a bus is that part of the no no it's the Board of Ed determination of where buses will stop okay that's why sometimes they do go on private property and sometimes they do not go on private property the townhouse development U has arranged for buses SLE buses to go on the private property at the townhouse development um it is up to the board of edit and if they would do that it would quite would be quite good and because there's circumnavigation of the parking lot it's it looks quite feasible to do that okay all right that's all I have for now thank you yes I just chime in since we're on this topic so so I think we're leaving an open end to how the children are going to be safely picked up um from this area and I'm reading a report right now that says it's from the um Kurt Morris police traffic engineer Sparta and it says it was stated at the last meeting that adjacent property parking lot is used as a bus stop which is false there are no bus stops located in parking lots there is in fact a bus stop on the side of the sparta Avenue for a few children who live in apartments already apartments that are there near by this proposed apartment complex has the potential for more children in need of a school bus there is currently no proposed location for a bus stop currently no where that report for this complex so this could lead to parents parking their vehicles either in the driveway or in private parking lots which could possibly not be permitted by the adjacent building owners well if I may is that that report is incorrect because we know from the email from the Board of Ed from the person from bus operations that this is where the bus stops in addition I'd be happy to have the officer here to ask him questions because I don't know whether he's competent to give those opinions he's giving uh opinions without a basis in any fact so certainly what you heard from Mr Collins we've agreed to work with the board of Ed The Bard of Ed has their bus stop in that parking area down hill from this development and that's what's being utilized it's all we can tell you well Mr Collins has indicated that this is a school board uh situation that they need to arrange I would feel a lot better if I could read something from them that assured that there was a safe um passage for the kids to and from school Our obligation is to provide pedestrian access to the street and we have that and we redesigned the site last time to make sure you were all happy with The Pedestrian access so that that's Our obligation and that's and this happens on many developments where do the bus stops they don't come onto private property generally and they have to go to the street so I mean I'm just saying I'm not I'm not I just want to ease your mind that it's it's really not your you you don't have to worry about that you yeah I shouldn't say that you want to worry about it but it's not the purview of this board to get into that as long as we have safe access to the street we've met Our obligation well my my concern is that the children have have safe passage any other questions uh yeah since we're on this subject so it's it's the assertion that there there is safe passage right now that that children our boarding a bus safely right now to get to and from school yes that's what yes that's what we've seen and that's what we've been told okay and you have and you have documentation from the Board of Ed saying that the bus stops in that parking lot that's what the email said that Mr McNerney testified to two meetings ago correct you could produce if if someone if someone here was we did provide a copy of the email to the reporter from tap into to Sparta Sparta at that time so I don't have the copy with me not a problem that was what was testified to under oath by Mr mcard just want to make sure so that you know when when we're talking about these things that there is an existing facility for children it's not that you know and if I'm hearing what you've said correctly that you are making the assertion that you are going to be working with the Board of Ed in the hope that they will change what they're doing and come up into onto the property is that that that's correct uh typically what what will happen is bus routes are determined at the beginning of school year based upon the demand of the children and the distance of the children so if there is one child living here I doubt that they would send the bus if there are 10 children living here that are attending the school then they probably would send the bus up uh as more of a convenience for the bus driver than anyone else right uh but that's to be determined by the Board of Ed as part of their planning process prior to the beginning of the school year as we've indicated we've provided that passageway that is probably the safest from what currently exists for children in other areas of that location in order for people to get and as Mr McNerney test testified the world is a lot different today from when I was a kid and what happens is is parents drive their children to the bus stop or accompany them to the bus stop so that's usually if we're concerned about safety it's not that children are walking by themselves no no and completely understood and and from from your statement you know if if you do work with the Border bed and they do see that there are 10 children that then nobody no one is going to be coming down the hill because the bus will be going up onto the property pick them up so um if we're talking about one or two parents that are bringing children down I guess that's one thing um but I I'm the point is is that you're working with the Board of Ed just to kind of allay anybody's fear there is an existing facility you are working with the Board of Ed I'm just clarifying that I've heard all of these things clearly right that's correct yes and we're cleaning up the crosswalks on the street just just to better Define The Pedestrian walk with thank you this that's a follow to if I remember correctly I think there was a point uh at one of the previous meetings where you had offered that um if necessary that that the buses would be allowed on the property to pick up that is correct since we're on child safety I have one other question I'm not sure if this really goes to you or not though but it was brought up last month that if children are going to be living on the premises that um they would or could be given window guards um how would a person know about that if they're moving in with a child how would they know to ask Mr mcy he'll be up next okay that's building management yes and I think he said we would yes but I just didn't know the process thank you on the application any other questions on the Das see none I guess we open up to the public for public has any any questions relating to the testimony that's been given uh from Mr Mr Burton yeah hi Mike deline Oak Parkway I haven't been in every meeting I'm still confused about the bus stuff I apologize can I talk in terms that I'm familiar with you say it's going to go in and park there is that behind where the Burger King is behind where the bagel store is is that the lot you're talking about yes so the bus will win and park there it's not it will it is it is it's not it's not because of this application this part of this application we did research and we found out where the bus stops for the neighborhood and it Parks how many buses per day do that I imagine well depends on the school yeah well you have the elementary school I don't know if the high school has a different bus so will they will cars be turning both left and right into your property from spart Avenue yes and vice versa coming out yes you have a sense of the Imp back on traffic during heavy traffic times yes at the last meeting or maybe the meeting before we discussed traffic um and the uh board engineer also reviewed the traffic okay um and and although there's this is a residential project it's not like it's a 7-Eleven or it's not a high generating tra uh uh traffic facility so um it there will be an impact but it's a minimal impact and it's well within the capacity of the street what's there now as I recall once you get beyond the parking lot there a fairly narrow roadway up to where your building will be correct so you're saying if they choose to the bus can go up that road to pick up the the children yes how will they get out then back out is there a way to turn around uh on the board on the on the easel is exhibit A6 from last month and you could see there's a parking lot there and it's been designed for the firetruck to make the turn around so the school bus can make the turn okay I had questions about the height of the building is that you or is that a subsequent uh that would be the okay thanks Kathy EV cow and Scots Road I've already been sworn in um I've just been scribbling some notes so give me a second to make sure I have the right questions for the right witness please Kathy if you could we can I can't hear you up here you can't hear is it working oh okay sorry um you mentioned um in your testimony crosswalks previously um can you talk more about that was that um regarding the the property itself or on the street no uh the there was at one time a crosswalk along the sidewalk uh on Sparta Avenue from the uh Burger King um to 155 across the site and it's all worn out and it's not well defined so on our plan and part of our application that be to the dot would be to restripe the crosswalk when you say 155 can you clarify what that means I say 155 I meant 55 that's the building looking at the site would be the building on the left on the shopping centers I don't know that I'm where the Burger King on the right it's from the other side of the driveway okay so you mean to say on the public right away right in the public right away we're going to restripe the crosswalk and is that across the road itself or just on the sidewalk along the sidewalk the driveways above each other which is so instead of walking across a driveway to a sidewalk to a driveway we have two driveways side by side so we're going to redefine the crosswalk across the two driveways for safety okay I think I understand that better thank you not working materials walkways um you mentioned that you felt or testified that the officer was not competent to give an opinion on traffic is that correct I never said anything like that these are questions for the engineer that my okay and you also miscon the statement the officer is not competent to make statements about how many children will be generated by a particular project I don't think that was what was in the letter I don't think there was any assertion as to how many children is that right this is not the appropriate discussion for the questioner just ask questions I'm asking about his testimony not testifying this is the time is to ask Mr Burton questions but a statement was made during this hearing that I'm questioning you have to ask m m Mr chaski is not testifying he's the attorney representing appc you have to ask questions of Mr Burton if you have any more please ask them okay you mentioned the tap into art tap into Sparta article calling out that can you can you clarify what the tap Des Sparta article called out I I did not testify about that I testified about engineering issues okay and the site design engineering and sight but we've been talking about children and the buses am I not allowed to talk about children and buses too well ask a question and we'll see right well that's what it seems like I'm being told I can't ask questions about what is being discussed during this testimony if you have a question let's ask a question and if if it's if they object to it then then the people can object to it and we'll make a ruling um it seems like your testimony is relying on an assumption that one child means that there's no bus service is that correct uh no my testimony was that we provide access to the street for children or a child or adults what I heard what I think I heard you can correct me is if there is one child you would expect that child to be driven and that no bus service would be provided by our school district is that true I did not testify to anything along those lines Mr chairman if if I may just object to the whole line of questioning because the person is misconstruing statements that I have made and witness testimony so Tom I did make statements if I may Mr chairman I object to the officer's opinion if he wants to render an opinion he can certainly come here but he is not competent to provide an opinion as to number of school children that will be provided I do object that he made a statement that the bus stop was false what was testified to Mr MCM by Mr McNerney and that we provided the email which is sitting in front of me now that I will be happy to read however June Mao the Transportation uh supervisor indicates we currently have a bus stop at 55 spotter Avenue so hopefully that ends the question my problem with the officer's report is he never checked with the board of it he's making assumptions so that's where we are at can I interrupt you just for one second just for uh a point of information corpal Morris is the president of the Board of Education in town just wanted to let you know so whether or not he's familiar or unfamiliar with the bus stops I'm just putting that out there yeah as yeah as as as I said the transportation supervisor indicated where the bus stop was when we were here in March Mr McNerney showed the pictures of the bus stop in that location and those the the pictures that were submitted during that testimony were of a parking lot where a bus was parked if if I can I want to get back to okay ask a question my question is we'll give an answer and then we we go from there so is what the what was testified to and brought forth as evidence of what he's mentioning the pictures that were submitted asking this question of of the applicant I'm not sure who I'm asking I I don't know who I should ask for one second Tom this for question for you there there's testimony and there's been some statements made um in the discussion does the public have a right to I know we got to direct the questions to the professional that's testifying but there were comments made and some questions from the board that rais comments and questions does the public have a right to speak on that based on what they've just heard when when this witness and the next witness are done the public testimony will begin so the answer is yes so Catherine after the Witnesses are done but cath Katherine Kathy can ask questions of Mr Burton for testimony on cross-examination for Testimony that he has made on Direct testimony so she should do what the chairman said which is ask a particular question of Mr Burton and proceed oh I believe Mr Burton testified about an elementary school is that correct no someone asked a question about how many buses and I said I don't know I imagine the elementary school comes I don't know if the high school has a separate bus you're unaware of how many schools are in this district is that correct that's what I said okay so then okay and I hold my opinion on that um I suppose that's all I have B based on what was testified at this moment thank you okay thank you hey Beth Rodrick Northshore I have a question is the parking lot where Auggie Bagels private or public I mention it's a private parking lot so wouldn't the owner of that parking lot have some input into whether there is a bus stop whether it's official or unofficial this is and I have another follow-up question as well this is a discussion with the Board of Education and another problem okay here's my next question okay have if there is a bus stop like you said there was in that parking lot is busing children or having children could be driven down from your proposed building going to create a safety issue if they are being dropped off in a parking lot that has a busy bagel bagel place in the morning and is that going to create a legal safety issue or if God forbid somebody's going to the bagel place and a child is getting out of mommy's car and gets hit by somebody when they're going to the school bus let me guess I have to I have to go ask somebody else because you didn't test let him answer let him answer I can answer the question that people will work and figure it out but the the real answer is that's an offsite condition Our obligation is to provide access to the street that's the obligation of this application and we're getting caught up on the on the on the school issue because it's it's it's it's a point you can pick at but um Our obligation is to get safe access to the street I imagine that people will use common sense and park in the lot um not in the way not not to block the driveway or have children walking in front of passing cars okay I have a few comments like Kathy do about that but I don't want to be attacked verbally but here's my next question regarding the fir truck and the property where you're suggesting that you build this building you said that code does not dictate that they need to bring the fire truck around to the back of the building correct and the stand pipe would be in the front has any consideration given to the a little bit above and beyond the co what the code dictates for the safety of your possible residents or the residents in your proposed building um it's not necessary because the project will meet all the fire codes okay okay any any other members that the public okay Mr chairman uh I was additional copies of the renderings I don't know if people need additional rendering I think my friend brought up computer for me but anybody else need a copy I think there's three or four copies so I'll just hand them up here thank you Bob you want to come up thank you friend thank you good let's let's mark it as an next exhibit gentleman A7 A7 one or two uh there's a front perspective and the uh three other elevations Tom you want to mark them as one together or mark it A7 A8 um I guess make it A7 and A8 so you can refer to them separately thank you you understand you're still under Ro correct yes thank you need help fix BR put that up so Mr McCarney you you you've testified at at all the hearings with respect to this matter correct yes I have all right and at the last hearing there were some recommendations made by the board with respect to uh certain design elements of the building am I correct that is correct what did we just Mark as A7 A7 is a revised front elevation of the building whereby we added a mansard roof across the front to further shield from the air conditioner compressors that'll be on a roof and it runs across the whole front besides the maner roof is the a design of the building unchanged I should say the front facade unchanged from what was testified to previously the only change we made was to add the mansard roof okay now if you could go to A8 please and tell the board what that is in reviewing the roof lines although the board didn't ask for the mansart on the rear we thought it would be a better look to wrap the whole building with a mansart and that's what we did in addition we put dormers on the mansard on each side to break that up as requested and we also added shutters to all the windows on the sides and uh at the last hearing the board was asking about materials did you bring some color samples and tell us you know what those samples where they would be I think you testified as to uh the various building materials so if you can tell us what these samples are and where they will be yes as I testified prior the siding will be made of a Hardy plank siding and a big question came to well what color so if you hold that yep so I have with me tonight five colors one of which we will select to put on a building so here are the color no argument here are the colors so so there if you want the gray we'll do the gray with white trim we'll do tan with white trim we'll do brownish dark with white trim or something in between this one's called Monteray top so there was a concern that the building looked a little green so we decided that we have a number of color options thank you gentlemen so that like green we also have green thank you gentlemen that'll be A9 it would be five col of party plank uh and Mr McNerney besides the design changes that's all that Chang none of the interior of the building has changed at all no it hasn't okay now I believe there was was a question about safety screening children at Windows could you answer that question yes these types of apartments are governed under DCA Department of Community Affairs and as a regulation they do initial inspection once the building's built and if they're children that are occupying space it's mandatory to put the screening on the on the windows in addition it's also required that a Poole in every door every entry door to the apartment is installed in addition it's also requiring us to put a a bolt and a lock a chain lock on every door so after we build it then they they come Five Years on a fifth year anniversary they do another inspection and then every year after that they inspect in addition we also have the elevator company inspecting on an annual basis I have no other questions from Mr McNerney all right let me go to the professionals uh Mr Simmons we'll start with you any questions no sir not at this time Catherine um where is [Laughter] Catherine us I heard the voice yeah I see the but no I have it on my screen don't worry I have a laptop screen um can you just describe the the South and North elevations the the side elevations essentially um there appear to be you know the way the windows are proposed um just seems a little bit um unusual as far as the way that the I think it's a double load double loaded Corridor well I first off some of those windows in are in Corridor but more importantly the three windows that are located on the South Side that's the gym so we have Windows along the side and in the front as well here this in uh so that that's the gym so we have plenty of light coming into the gym okay um I just I I found that the the placement of the windows so close together and not really symmetrical didn't seem to line up with the apartment units so I was just curious if there were any um any reason for that no plus we wanted a room enough to fit the shutters okay bring it back to the Das I just have one question on the uh west elevation uh why did you choose not to put dormers on the west elevation was back building looking into the woods uh quick question so the with the new roof line does that change the height of the building because I see there's a um on A7 no it doesn't the building the building height hasn't changed it's 46 in 46 ft 11 in to the highest part okay um only because I I'm looking at that that one Center yeah I'm looking at the one Center piece here just want it CU that seems to be a little bit higher on A7 the KOA yeah above the above the uh thank you I was trying to think of the word The Gables it's 4 4 46 46 feet 11 in that was it thank you guess I'd just like to thank you for making some of these changes I think that they are good design changes it looks much better especially the uh roof line um i' just like to address one question that did come up last time and that was about the balconies the PVC balconies and how they're toxic in fire would there be any objection to putting different material we haven't made that decision yet they could be PVC which PVC uh slides over frame wood posts uh it could could be RW iron it could be any number of materials but to say that that the PVC is is something that is flammable that's just ridiculous not flammable toxic toxic whatever in order to be toxic it has to be on fire right yes that's up the point so would you have any objection to not using the PVC since you said that you could use other materials good thank you on okay followup question to um our planner Katherine the South and North elevations are just to clarify those is the window alignment due to where the interior hallways are on the second third and fourth floor okay both windows this the two windows on each of the floors add light to the hallways and this is the main Center hallway so you can see from one side to the other and these three Windows which are located to the front of the those the um hallway windows are for the uh stairwell so that we have some natural light in the stairwell I see okay uh just a question on the roof that in general now and this actually directed at our um professional planner and our attorney so Katherine and Tom seeing this in these new designs does this is this a pitched roof and is this now in your what are your thoughts on this meeting the ordinance uh Katherine if you want to go first give me one second to respond the design in my supplementary rememo I brought up some of the architectural design requirements in the zone or you know for the Town Center zones and um one of those requirements or one of those design standards um is that roof line shall be varied with a combination of heights to provide further visual relief the use of Chim Copo Dorma shall be used for further enhancement so I do think that it probably you know it's in furtherance of those standards um but as far as being um a a flat roof as it originally was proposed I think it's much different um you know maner roof has some Pitch to it has some you know some more treatment to it and the DMS definitely do I think add to that as well for the in conformance with the design standards that I brought up in the last okay thank you I'm not to the mic I I'm like tued away down here Mr Collins do you have any thoughts um the um Katherine is correct and actually um the ordinance does require the uh pitching of the roof for in the Town Center commercial Zone which this is in uh the design standards require a residential appearance roof with a pitch uh and it actually mentions the use of manard to uh deal with the to avoid an appearance of a flat roof and if you can remember there are some other buildings that have done that um even the uh I think it's called the um Health Center or the I think it's 89 Sparta Avenue where the hospital built the doctor's offices is built with a maner to give an appearance that hides the flat roof behind it the applicant has been cooperate enough to follow that type of residential appearance design in the roof pitch on now on all four sides which is good and the U koua and the Dormers and similar features are a way to break up a a maner and that's what they've done um so this complies with the language of the ordinance but you would the board would have to make the determination whether you're satisfied it complies with the ordinance so okay just understand this we've been here many months we taken your comments in consideration of your comments we've made these changes we're trying to work with the township to come up with something that's nice for the town okay that's all my questions thank you okay uh two questions that I have is um regard to to the new roof line new mans um how tall is that and what what materials are being used there there that would be ashphalt shingles covered and the mansard itself measures approximately five feet okay thank you the the second question is kind of along the lines where I I think people have talked about when I look at the the south in the north elevation is there any is there would it be difficult and would you be willing to consider moving those windows apart just to give them de side a more balanced um look or is that a hard thing to do understand this window lets light into the main Corridor all the way down and this is into the stairwell that goes up this way so to move them it isn't really feasible you know we want to provide light into the corridor and we also want to provide light in the main hallway so okay it doesn't work out in the in the best design but again these are the ends of the building so they're not going to be as visible as the front Ron I'm still I mean I now this is the third question on this I I think my question was more related to are there Windows lacking for the apartment units are I know that there's light I know those windows are intended to light the corridor and the you know the main hallway that's great but are there do those my question was for does it line up with the apartment units to have more than just front or back facing windows can I approach I can pull it up actually if you just tell me the sheet number I don't even know so you've got stairwell yes so here's the one window and here's the other window that's the first floor actually and this is so this is bedroom single window okay sense it makes sense there's there's a lot of other things going on especially on the give me one second which elevation on the Southside elevation they have the exercise room which they've proposed those three windows on the second floor and then above that is storage closets which wouldn't have you know the need they'll just have you know internal light um there on the North side elevation there are um bedrooms adjacent there's a stairwell Corridor um to the east so the front portion of the building there's a stairwell quarter so that is getting light from that single window so there's no need for a window you know right closer East closer to the front and in the back there is there are bedrooms proposed along that more Western portion the rear side of the building however they do have Windows facing west um so you know you could add a corner when have two windows into that bedroom but as long as they're they have some window um you know in the bedroom that kind of satisfies my concern I was more asking the applicant if if they had windows and what what lined up with the with the those you know wall facades um to make sure they they had adequate um light all right thank you okay no other questions no no sir reine good good no what was the uh what was the primary color you guys had as a first option just logistically how how we uh we choose to be honest with you we didn't even pick a primary color thought like a a a a beige color but then we got the samples and we kind of like this one this is more modern with a white white shutters white trim so but I I think the point is I'm bringing these colors to to show the board so that nothing is offensive as far as if we go with any one of these I have the same problem at home I have to bring five colors just curious how we uh if anybody has any hard feelings on that or not can we see those yeah yes let's say nine five colors you might get 11 we're going to keep them in the planning department or you're going to have to figure out where to store those you know you can pass them it's going to be their desend so thank you okay any other questions the actual material right yeah this is the those are samples of the Hardy Board which is Bob why don't you describe what Hardy Board is do warranty yes the Hardy plank is a a composite uh shingle or or clapboard and it's durable it comes pre-finished you don't have to paint it and it it lasts forever and because we're building these buildings to keep we want to put the best siding on and not do vinyl or something like that they used to put a 50e warranty on that back do they still have that I don't know if it's 50 but I know it's at least 25 this is G stick out way too much when you see it from can I make a suggest suggestion just to keep this moving unless anyone has any other questions while this is passing down the the dies here um I'd like to maybe open up to the public to get uh questions going any questions the public may have and Mr chairman you could do you could do questions anyone has questions on Mr day Mr chairman Mr chairman you could also uh open it up to questions and testimony now because they've done their Witnesses okay so just help explain that just so sure now that the applicants testimony has completed it's possible for the uh interested parties to uh well first of all be sworn if they haven't been sworn before and to both ask questions of Mr McNerney and to make their final testimony and after the board after the final testimony of the public unless there's some rebuttal by the applicant the board will be deciding the matter so Mike were you previously sworn in this case Okay do you swear airm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do and please dat your name and address again M Divine Oak Parkway I have a few questions but I want to P make a few comments up front if you don't mind you guys are obviously on edge and maybe in the brink of being angry I can understand it you've been here many times is your job you want to get the building built I hope you also appreciate if this building goes up and it's a safety problem or whatever if it's out of touch with the architecture of the town we live with it you're going to the next project so if you're impatient that's tough I want I want to say right now I'm one of the most patient men you could ever meet well that's not obvious it wasn't me that was screaming or yelling back and forth okay the other point is there was a statement clearly made that our traffic engine ER who up to this point I believe has been generally accepted without any basis the statement was made that he was not competent to do ABC AFC ABC was now I found that to be offensive when you guys come up to testify you have to we have to accept your credentials now if you said I'd like to talk to Corporal Mars and Fa and accept his credentials that's totally valid with no basis to make a statement that he's incompetent to do something I think is offensive and inappropriate the other point is is all the contact you supposedly have had with the Board of Education you didn't even know who the chairman of the board of education was that makes me a little concerned about the degree of interaction you've actually had with can I comment on that sure I went to the board Ed and told them what I was looking to do they advised me to go down to the bus depot by the high school and speak to the head of operations there that's what I did you ever talk to the chairman of the board of education or encounter him at all to talk to the operations director who directed you someone in the border ed that answered the door okay we've talked a lot about the height of the building what what if you go up to the the hill face onto your building and go straight through and continue what do you hit the cemetery what's pack there I know there's Woods immediately there what do you hit if you continue which direct have you ever been to a site many times okay the cemetery is off the front end of the building not the back end so you look into the cemetery you look into the conservation area that was part of the development when they did the uh stop and shop and and immediately to the rear of the building is a site uh wooded site that was uh formerly I guess they tried to put in a a gas station or communion store now of the adjacent sites are there any that are zoned in such a way that they have the equivalent structure as what you're building I don't know anybody know yes the the adjacent site to the left that he mentioned as being site of a actually was a site of an approval of a convenience store and a denial of a Wawa uh was is in the same zone so that's the they have the maps that do that behind that's behind the to give it a context that's the lot that's behind the the pharmacy on the corner of 517 and uh Bart Avenue okay this building is 48 ft high and we've talked about this before 4611 4611 and are you up actually up a little rise or local rise in that area we're at the Prest of the uh of the uh Mountain shall you call it yeah so without that leaves on the trees what's the visibility from a 360 perspective okay so if it were visible from certain places with that maners or whatever all these other things are do you think that would be a compatible perspective with what surrounds it in Sparta well I look at what am I looking at if I look down towards the cemetery I see the whole Stop and Shop and and the the the Strip Center all the utilities on their roof I don't I'm not NE about the yeah where you can float a balloon up 46 feet and take a look yeah I actually suggested that early on in this process but it never got any traction uh let me see about two or three more if you don't mind so just to reiterate apparently 46 ft whatever it is we could we're setting a precedent where why one or more Lots around this building could also have structures that are 46 ft High maybe that's not a question for you but is that true well it conforms to the Zone Zone permits 4611 is this Zone very localized or is it a broader area was the Zone been this way for a long time I don't know I don't know the history of the zoning anybody know I I don't remember when when we look at the the 46 feet I think that's that's restricted to certain Apartments not every building so so I think that's most building the proposed height is conforming Mr Dine and it is allowed in the TCC Zone and some other zones when you're doing an affordable housing inclusionary development they're actually much less than the allowed height uh but uh yes other properties in the TCC Zone which generally speaking runs from this well it runs from 5177 all the the way up to and including the lake moha Clubhouse and uh I believe up to the edge of Roundtop uh beyond the the uh bowling alley is the height of a structure within a Zone related to visibility compatibility or what or the ability for a fire truck to get to the top of it no none of the none of those It Is by zoning and uh is this proposal is conforming and less than the height and it's less than the height of the previously approved apartment building uh I don't have the height in front of me but it was quite a bit higher for the Captiva uh apartment complex that was approved are there variances as part of this approval process or is that to be determined are you looking for variances we're looking go ahead Bri well the applic I'll take mik the application requires a variance for one loading space which was previously approved by this board in the previous application and there is a variance or a waiver with respect to the location of a sidewalk in the parking area that was designed to provide for greater Landscaping so it sounds like the max variances will be maybe two or three based on what you just said you don't foresee any more of that than that according to the application and the drawings on file there are those two variances identified and they were testified too I don't know if you were at the last meeting where Mr Burton reviewed the variances uh during his direct testimony I believe there might also be a waiver for some parking space sizes I believe we're conforming with rsis but not the ordinance we're 9 by8 in C of the spaces which and I stand corrected because that was a change to increase the Landscaping also so our position is we comply with rsis would govern but to the extent the waivers is required we'll request it my my last question it goes back quite a bit when I was actually on the planning board we approv Things based on the kind of presentation you're making and I'm not degrading your presentation but when the thing was actually built a lot of people were surprised because we never actually saw a colored rendering of what it actually going to look like so buildings have snuck through they've on paper they've met all the requirements but we end up with a building that's not compatible with at least in my judgment a lot of the other architecture in the town my hope is that we're not going down that path again so thanks thanks for your answers you're welcome and I hope you have complete confidence that we'll do the right thing okay Kathy evanow scutters Road Kathy you were previously sworn so you're still under oath and you make ask questions or or testify or both thank you um what materials are being used on the ground and what percentage of impervious coverage do we have for this application engineering question okay um previously we talked about the perimeter or someone else has uh brought up the perimeter of the building um what is the spacing available on the perimeter of the building is there enough for a car to get in there is it walkway is what is the proposal around the general perimeter of the building understand the question again that that would be an engineering question well Mr mcney it seems like something you can answer based on the plan so I think it's faster to just answer it if you can no I'd like you to speak to it because I don't know how to read this I'd like to show you okay so here's the perimeter to build mm 14 ft 6 14 and2 ft rear yard to the building side yard here is is I propos grass I assume W wooded so trees and then here we have a side yard of and the ground is also wooded come up to the uh okay so no car is expected to go no around the perimeter it would just be humans or animals correct or humans and great thank you um I Heard the term maner roof used today and I don't know that I quite understand that can someone explain what that is I was trying to Google it a bit and there's a reason I'm asking about it um in relation to previous testimony we saw um air conditioning units on the roof and I'm based on what I what I think I understand about a maned roof is there's um Pitch on all sides does that mean the air conditioning units are now are still on the roof behind the pitch recess yes they are still there they're just not visible now at all in the center of the grp yes got it okay are was there a colorized rendering I I heard discussed because I'm not seeing it this is still the black and white we have colorized renderings but that would be the old design would you like to see that I believe I heard the board talking about wanting to see it and I think it would be great for the public based on the questions I've heard today and the concerns around um previous buildings that were built in town that were not provided well we don't know what the color is as of tonight right color rber okay what what is the exhibit number Mr MC 82 82 and thank you because that's a more clear picture the drawing on the easel seems to be I don't know if it's just me a little more grainy the drawing on the easel was done in a rapid Pace gotcha okay um to that point um previous exhibits kind of showed balconies and we talked about fences in a previous rendering it seemed that there was um maybe you know a six maybe a 6 in kind of fencing between the balconies where it looked like there could be a walkway and I'm not sure if I just couldn't see it properly previously yeah this right here yeah that's the first floor first floor will be patios and then the upper three floors will be do that's new information can you talk more about that because I was looking at this R this drawing and the the fencing there seemed to give me the impression that people could be walking there is that correct the fencing you're referring to is the rails for the no I'm talking about the fencing here in between where the trees are covering there appears to be fencing in between the balconies can you talk more about that no that that depicts the railings that's not fencing okay railings or fencing I'm sure I I don't know the difference um technically but can you talk about the railings or fencing whatever you consider this in between the balcony please you said patio can you talk more about that first floor you'll be exiting out onto grade level so that will be a patio but that's here not up here on the second through third uh second through fourth floor will be a balcony a covered balcony I'm sorry I'm missing it and forgive me this is the second floor correct m yes it is what is this that is depicted here that is in between each of the balconies that's just uh trim work that's decorative so that's decorative okay that's what I was trying to understand is there a walkway there in between the balconies no okay um so there's no longer a parit because of the updates to the roof is that right the man sword acts as a Power Pit got it um a question my next question is to the board um I heard one of our professionals ask about the number of Windows is there a minimum number of Windows per Apartments per code expected maybe Katherine that's something I can ask you I don't think per the ordinance and I'm not sure by building code requirements but I don't think so M um is is this expected to be the highest elevation of all the surrounding Lots this building will it stand out as the highest are you expecting it to stand out as the highest around the surrounding lot no the highest is the Mohawk House okay that wasn't in my mind as being uh in the general vicinity but I understand what you're saying higher okay [Music] I think that's all of my questions thank you thank you do you have any testimony this is the time for Testimony I'm okay thank you thank you okay any other members of the public Mark Scott n poblo Parkway Mark you were previously sworn weren't you yes sir thank you please go ahead um it seems like nobody knows the history of this lot and how this approval came to be essentially kind of spot zoning type of lot and I think it should just be told you know that Mr close our previous Town manager came to the previous board and asked or pushed or did whatever he did and got an approval for the Town Center commercial to allow for these four story buildings to be built and this Zone goes all the way down to West Shore Trail let's just let's just imagine that for a moment okay one day the Dairy Queen's gone and it could be a four-story tower one day the M the Burger King's gone and it could be a four-story tower one day the Mohawk Avenue School is gone and it could be three or four four-story Towers one day the optimum building and uh the building right across from Lake Mohawk are gone and they could be four story Towers so this is just kind of what could be the beginning also on regarding the uh you said that there are no Dormers in the back well if that lot ever gets developed which was to be the convenient store you would be able to see that from the Mohawk house or or the bypass and doesn't the ordinance I think Mr Collins said it just a few moments ago as did Katherine doesn't the ordinance say that it has to resemble and and and these and these Dormers have to be on the building so why wouldn't they that apply to all four sides of the building we had this discussion at the last meeting and the council said we want we want the site the the building to resemble the front on all four sides well first there's there's a wooded area there's a grade and there's a wooded area today today and if an application came in on that property to develop I'd be standing where you are offering my testimony and and saying how you need a buffer between the two properties so back to the ordinance the ordinance says that the building should resemble the architecture in Sparta but I and I think that applies to all four sides of the building Katherine is that correct or does it just say only a couple sides or two sides or three sides what does it say one side I just want to I want to double check that I'm that I'm answering correctly so I'm just looking through my memo real quick should I wait you can wait a sec okay I don't see that that specific requirement under the architectural design standards for the TCC for the Town Center design standards but it is something I added into the memo that I thought was um important specifically relating to the original design which was definitely not the the jailhouse design right the top one I'm not going to agree with that because that's your your opinion um but the original design standards was I had a I had significant comments on uh you know the overall design okay uh has been changed significantly um from what it was uh and even the second iteration which preserved that on other sides of the building the north south and Western facades um I had a problem with that as well so this is a this is a significant Improvement as far as the Dormers being On The Backs side of the building um I wonder if the applicant would would agree to put in um you know a handful of dormant even if they're just fake they're false Dormers so they're not you know providing how many would you like Catherine I I mean just symmetrically along the backs side of the building want to draw them on here I won't I'm not going to draw them but maybe I'll draw maybe symmetrically uh disperse them along the back side of the building so we can four four is probably okay just so symmetrically you know can I write on this would that be acceptable yes just maybe explain in words what you're doing I am plotting in four dormers on the back side of the building similar to the ones on the side of the building they not exact actly spaced apart but you'll get to gist well you're going to have them evenly spaced but right we can put them in as conditions for resolution compliance um so that they're spaced evenly when when redesigned on the plan I didn't say it was okay I see that you drew yes the parking spaces you said they're rsis compliant at 9 by8 is Sparta regulation 9 by 20 the the ordinance is at 9 by 20 um but they could request the waiv for 9 by do you know no no sir wait the applicant answered and the answer was correct that in entirety of the state of New Jersey for residential development the residential site Improvement standards preempt control override and the rsis standard applies to this because it is a residential development but that being said the applicant has explained why they are asking for 9 by8 and that explanation involves places where the car go goes over the curb and still has 20 ft if you count the two ft over the curb and the landscape area so it's a very common thing to have 9 by8 then how do people walk on the sidewalk if the separated that they they widen the sidewalk or separate the sidewalk and that's what they've done okay Sparta's requirement is 9 by 20 Sparta's requirement is is 9 by8 if it's if that's what rsis says because that preempts the local it not only preempts Sparta's ordinance it preempts every ordinance in the 564 municipalities in New Jersey once again this is our town and uh in my 60 years of living I've noticed that the cars just seem to get bigger and now we have these things called SUVs so to make our space is smaller it just doesn't seem right um okay so thank you you remember that we could have Towers all the way down to Westshore Trail first one okay any other members from the public ad you you previously sworn in this case please go ahead um I have two areas for um one of the questions one of them is the Mr may could you talk into the microphone thanks yes thank you uh one of them is the walkway from um the street level up to the apartment building which in a previous plan was a 4T wide concrete walkway I mentioned or I asked before is there were any plans to widen that walkway to the 6 feet or 7 ft that is used otherwise in sparter toown center and so I would like to ask again if that walkway has been planned to be wider than the current 4 feet uh from the plant the plan indicates four feet Mr chairman Mr Burton can answer the question right that's what we proposed and in uh an area such as you suggest would be where cars are parked perpendicular to the sidewalk and therefore the bumper might overhang into the sidewalk that would be a wider sidewalk but this is a very limited pedestrian area for a limited number of people it's not a downtown so we propos a 4ot sidewalk which is a standard sidewalk okay I'm not sure you understood which walkway I was talking about you talking about the walkway down to the road yeah the one that that W that that runs along that what I'm talking about it's four feet it's a standard sidewalk and that is sufficient if we make the sidewalk wider then we need more retaining walls more excavation into the hillside sure we designed it this way and and it's very little traffic so I think four feet is sufficient Okay the reason I me I I asked about it before and the reason I mention it now is that this building has a high density of occupants it's but it it's several dozen apartments and is going to be including younger users children maybe walking to the school bus and that a certain quality of life should be associated with a building such as this and a 4ft walkway may be legally passable but to say that the one road that leads up to that building that's going to be used by cars at the same time that say people do go to the school bus or walk up and down for leisure that a narrow concrete strip is not the Allure that we want for our town the reason not to widen it because you have to cut some more into the hill that is purely an engineering question you cut this much or you cut that much and you get your extra three feet and you got a building 25 50 years that has a sufficient approach to the people who plan to live there and just a nrow concrete strip it has no visual lure and I would say more than three people a parent with two children are going to be really squeezed into that four feet four feet is this white this is four feet how you going to put three people next to each other to go to a social event or a school event so I would like to suggest to the board that there is a memo attached to the application that The Pedestrian aspect of the approach to the building be respected as much as the car access to the building so that is my request of the board and hope that it can be taken up as part of the approval process this is for the benefit of the residents in the town second area I would like to mention is the electrical supply to the building I asked about this before but what I had to say about it then came too close to testimony and had to C it short um I would like to make sure that the developer has contacted the electrical um company in that part of town we've all lived in spida for a long time and we know that on average we have about 10 power outages a year they can range from a few hours to a few days my longest personal power outage where I live was two weeks where there was just no electricity because the infrastructure was not sufficient I would like to make sure that the power lines on that stretch of Spar Avenue are sufficient to carry the extra load for this building uh which comes straight out of that one power line that runs along SP Avenue or that a upgraded power line be buried on the ground it's for the Allure of the town if we're going to build the power buildings maybe one maybe several it should be of a quality that befits Sparta so that is the end of my testimony thank you thank you Jennifer Derek St into spida J you're you're still on under do you understand that yes thank you um I came in at the end of the discussion about the um appropriateness of Kurt Morris's Corporal Morris's testimony about bus stops um I too spoke directly with the district with this Board of Ed I spoke with the superintendent and the assistant superintendent about buses the way bus stops work is they do attach an address to it such as 55 Sparta Avenue just like they would say 19 Westshore Trail or any other address but that doesn't mean the bus pulls into the parking lot or into the driveway it means the bus stops at that address the concern is that there are chairman I think we have to object we have hearsay testimony from what was told to this person I also have children that go to the school that went to the schools and experience I think I think we have to deal with with the objection your say is admissible in a planning board it's absolutely sir you're out of order you are out of order Manan so is there a way you would like me to reframe that rephrase that statement or does it stand for itself it stands for itself do a verbal conversation or do you have an email that you can provide I do have an email I would have to dig it up um I also spoke with him uh off the cuff at a board of ed meeting as well as the assistant superintendent to discuss the photos that were presented as evidence as well um additionally just so the board is familiar because I don't know if of your situation but we now have children 3 years old through 18 years old getting on the buses we have offer preschool and so there are three-year-olds that are unlikely to walk down in the winter with their moms or walk back or be unac unaccompanied just so that can paint a picture for what we're looking at here thank you thank you good evening uh an and Dash um 17 I can test you want to testify just testify no questions okay um would do you want to speak as an attorney though and just make okay so you want to speak as a witness sure please please raise your right hand do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God thank you yes and please uh restate your name and address and H Das Sparta 17 Ponderosa Trail thank you thank you so first of all the rules of evidence do not strictly apply to land use hearings hearsay is admissible a council knows that uh Second of all the most important duty of this board respectfully is the health and safety of its residents with all due respect to the pitch of the roof the number of Windows whether the window looks into the forest or looks into the the street whether respectfully the building can be seen from 517 whether it can't whether it's teal or green is fine for discussion respectfully but the municipal land use law charges volunteers such as you with a grave Duty as late persons and that is with the advice of your Council and engineer and planner and most importantly the most knowledgeable expert in our town when it comes to Traffic Safety our own corpal Morris corpal Morris has been a resident and officer in this town in charge of the traffic department of Sparta for decades his opinion is worth its weight in gold members of the board you will never hear and I haven't had a chance to cross-examine the applicants Witnesses but I don't need to because you will never hear an applicant's witness tell you when they've come this far that their application presents an unsafe condition you will never have a traffic engineer tell you on behalf of an applicant that in their opinion the Ingress and egress is unsafe that that point cannot be overstated so what we're doing here is we're balancing the testimony written submitted by kpel Morris who has expressed and unbiased right an unbiased impartial he's charged with such a great duty to to ensure the safety of the residents of the town and he has opined that the Ingress and the egress both pedestrian and vehicular presents an unsafe condition chman excuse me I'm I have an let me finish no no no I'm finishing and then you can speak excuse me no excuse me I think he's out of I'm making my comments here he can speak after he's done objection there's no objection I'm speaking you can wait and after I'm done you'll finish I'm making an objection to you're saying there is no Mr Dash Mr Dash he does have the right to make an objection so let him make it and then continue with your testimony where where Corporal Morris said that their this Ingress and egress was on safe please point to something because that's not what he said I just asked respectfully that you reserve your comments until I'm finished I want you to stay with the facts you show up at every other meeting you don't hear all the testimony so please stay with the facts if you're not aware of the facts then don't make them up um you're you're making facts that that aren't adding up either frankly okay so let me finish ultimately the municipal land use law allows this board to rely upon KP Morris okay and the distinction is a is a fine one but an important one we're not arguing that there that this that this project is going to generate traffic congestion because admittedly an unfairness to the applicant that would not be a valid basis to deny the application In fairness every application is going to generate some level of traffic so what our courts have said again and again is that members of the public cannot just stand up and say planning board members this traffic this project is going to generate traffic it's going to make our town more congested and therefore you should deny it that is not the basis the basis to deny respectfully is the safety of the Ingress and egress and our our courts have said that again and again right that where the vehicular and pedestrian traffic safety is in question and is substantiated by expert testimony in this case KP Morris through his letters the safety of the school children at the bus stop and the safety of the vehicular traffic that is a not only a legitimate basis but it is it is an impetus it is the requirement to deny this application again we can't take the the at at face value the applicants testimony of course they're going to tell us it's it's unsafe excuse me it's safe now I'll also add I don't profess to be a traffic engineer but I have lived in this town for 44 years and the reason that's important right not just by virtue of the fact that I've lived in town for 44 years but for at least 15 of those years I have used that route 517 Main Street Sparta Avenue as my running route and why that's important right because for 15 years on a daily basis I have observed more so than the engineers for the applicant one time two times three times half a dozen time 15 years over the course of 15 years every single day I have observed that intersection and I'm embarrassed to say frequented the Burger King with my children too often when we were younger okay and I have come close to be hitting to be hit by a car pulling out of that intersection years ago on numerous occasions because of the lack of uh uh the the driver being able to gauge that intersection when you're merging out of the Burger King and you have the other driveway that's adjacent to the augies now the relevance of that is that now we're adding 40 Apartments to this this is inherently unsafe intersection that cannot be ameliorated by any testimony offered by the applicant because of the site suitability okay so that's fine we we can Spar and and applicants attorney can get upset they've been upset from day one and I can come here when I need to respectfully okay but that's that's beside the point let's set aside the emotion let's set aside the emotion okay this board is charged respectfully for the safety of its residents both in my observed experiences and Corporal Morris this is an unsafe Ingress and egress and our Municipal land use law allows this board to deny the site plan if the proposed means of Ingress and egress would create vehicular traffic problems on the site in that case is Lionel's applying center Inc versus CA 156 New Jersey super 257 law division 1978 planning board may deny a site plan application if the Ingress and egress proposed by the plan creates an unsafe and inefficient vehicular circulation I rest my comments on the safety of our children the safety of our res presidents and the the law which allows this board to deny based on K Morris's opinion thank you any other members that the public okay all right so with that uh I guess we're at a point where we want to any make a motion any other if I could address a couple matters if I may I didn't want to speak extensively but there are there are a few matters here as indicated this is a 40 unit development six of which are affordable housing so one of the things the board has to be cognizant of is that the affordable housing was a primary concern 50% of my life is spent representing government entities and unfortunately affordable housing there are significant obligations on a municipality and it's a constitutional obligation this development provides those six units let's look at the application itself the application itself conforms with the zoning ordinance we may not like the ordinance we may not like how it came about but the ordinance exists the height of the building the density the impervious coverage the bulk standards the design complies with those standards we're asking for two variances one was for the loading space which you heard testimony from this board granted in 2020 an application for 70 units on that site with one loading space in addition the other variant we were speaking about was a sidewalk that was by the building with the separation Mr Burton testified to that safety efficiency and to provide greater Landscaping now we've focused I believe a little too much on what I will call the traffic issue I'm avoiding the word safety for a moment the traffic issue Mr Burton testified Mr Simmons reviewed there is nothing and in addition in Corporal Morris's memo nothing in that memo that indicates anything unsafe regarding circulation or Ingress or egress my objection to Corporal Morris's memo has nothing to do with the traffic safety Corporal Morris was concerned about those easements that exist at as you get closer to the roadway for the adjoining properties what did Mr Burton testify to Corporal Morris suggested that it be appropriate sign no through traffic Etc that was agreed to the problem that I had with the report was with respect to the opinion regarding the number of school children so I use the word competency that is not a der atory term it's the ability to render that opinion I think what we've just heard is putting everything out of context I was told this is what I see this is what I'm saying Corporal Morris did not testify here he provided a report that report is contradicted by other documentation that has been submitted to the board but we with respect to Corporal Morris's recommendations for the safety of the Cross easements that are there we agree entirely I think you have to look at this is that we've heard about the duty of the the board unfortunately I've been doing this for over 40 years and site suitability has nothing to do with the consideration here site suitability with was determined by the governing body when they zon for the site something else we can pick and choose cases all over the place in terms of site suitability also the governing body when it zone for this use that's why we're here it's permitted use took into consideration those traffic concerns offsite traffic is not a concern for the board Bo in consideration of the application what is and I agree with one statement that was made that appropriate Ingress egress circulation again no testimony from any of the professionals either on the applicant side or the board side would indicate that there was any unsafe means of Ingress ESS Etc a lot of issues that have come up are construction issues we have to comply with the multihousing code that's enforced by the DCA and also the local building codes uh in order to develop this site so when we look at it you know we're here for preliminary and final site plan approval the question to ask is does it comply with the ordinance substanti yes we could also look to the prior action of the board in order to make the determination as to the adequacy of the loading space and also Mr mcnerney's testimony as a matter of fact I believe Mr McNerney testified usually don't have a loading space with the multif family movein moves outs scheduled uh it's certainly dealt with that way I think you have to look at the great length we went for the design of the building as we've indicated throughout I guess this is our fifth hearing uh all the conditions that we discussed the title 39 working with the Board of Ed you know it's sort of like the red herring issue here the Board of Ed we're going to work with the Board of Ed they want to send the bus up they'll send the bus up they want to designate where this where the school bus stop is it's really their prerogative but until this is built and there's an identity of the number of children what that census would be that's when that determination will be done so that's what you have to look at we have a conforming application and we've gone to great lens to design the building in a manner that would be acceptable to the uh to spawn so that's where we're at appreciate if the board's consideration over these five hearings and request that the application be approved as presented thank you I have a question around variances uh early on there was a mention of variance for underground parking is I think was that was mentioned originally in one of the ordinances is that does that apply here or we're if I may uh Mr blti we are not providing for underground parking it is a permit it is permitted in the zone but not required okay that's what I want to clarify uh another question too is there of regarding signage is there a a name for the building not sure if that was asked before not yet you have a recommendation I come up with one not tonight okay in that case would you be coming back to site plan waiver subcommittee for the name on the sign then or design of the sign or not we we haven't proposed signs have we I don't think we sign back to the building department right yeah we we we identified the location but we expect the sign to comply okay okay is that we usually like to look at at least through the waiver subcommittee the the look and feel of the sign well if if that's a requirement certainly we comply with the requirement okay and the the fire department report those are all things are going to be complied with right that was I believe the early May report uh Mr Burton testified on May 15th that those would all be complied with okay that's all my questions for now thank you thank you Tom this question for you I I've been sitting up here for quite a while listening to the conversations going back and forth and I don't know if it's even appropriate or applicable or not but the conversation surrounding um um Kurt Morris and you know and I don't know what the protocol would be but if the applicant's attorney would want to clarify or retract his incompetent statement which is been argued on its content and its use tonight which has caused a lot of strife in this in this room I don't know if that's protocol that may choose to but um you know I I I think I heard the public speak about um Mr Morris as well and his credentials and all that and um I I took a I took a little bit of offense to that as well Mr chowski explained what he was saying in his closing just before which is he's basically just saying that reports are not competent evidence on the other hand he no but I don't want to argue it I'm trying to help okay and both gentlemen Mr Dash and Mr tuskowski have their arguments their legal arguments so don't worry about the characterization of a witness by the attorney worry about what the facts and evidence are in the record and you heard testimony including testimony by Mr Simmons which confirmed that the traffic report was comp by the applicant engineer who is a expert in traffic engineering Mr kalista Burton and Mr Simmons is also an expert that the proposed circulation and the proposed access Ingress and egress are adequate and safe Mr chowski also pointed out that what Mr Morris actually said was quite different than what Mr Dash claimed and what he wrote is quite different from what Mr Dash argues now Mr Dash is arguing as a as a witness that he's concerned about that driveway but that's he's not an expert but you have Mr Burton who is an expert Mr Simmons who is an expert and even the report of Mr moris uh does not say that the driveway Ingress and egress is unsafe he does make a point about the bus stop or alleged bus stop at 55 spart Avenue but that is a red herring quite frankly because there won't be a bus stopping there until a student lives in the building and when that happens whatever the laws are about bus stops will be determined and followed by the Board of Ed not part of Township not the planning board not even the applicant because the Board of Ed if they're still providing busing at that time which is always potential that busing will be removed but if they're still providing busing it goes to every Public School person and even goes to every private school person if you're in Sparta so the Board of Ed will decide that and you've proposed and the applicant has accepted that they will they will request that the Board of Ed enter upon their property with a bus into their parking lot to provide busing to directly from the building which is feasible but only approvable if the Board of Ed approves that moreover the applicant has offered and I would recommend it to you and the governing body that title 39 be applied by an ordinance of the council to the driveway and the parking lot so that traffic safety laws can be enforced all traffic violation laws all Motor Vehicle Laws can be applied to the driveway and to the parking lot this is commonly done for commercial properties and for apartment complexes and for townhouse developments when they have private roads it will help ensure enforcement capability by the police department I think those are the the law and facts of this case but you you make those determinations and I think it might help maybe one thing that I could use from you as a board is I think you should pick the color and I I think you should pick the exact color from the one of those five and my instincts are based upon your history is you might have very strong feelings about that but it's your determination as a majority and they're offering to let you do that and they've been able to previously they said why don't we come back later and do it but they're actually presenting to you uh the opportunity to decide that in your Mo in your resolution I think it's very useful to you if you're if you're ready to talk about that Mr day with your permission Mr Sylvester my comments were were not to bege the reputation of Corporal moris yeah can you use the microphone please I'm sorry my comments were not to bmer the reputation of Corporal Morris so probably when I use the word competency everybody's you know was raised as I indicated in my closing statement we agree to try to make it safer the second paragraph the first paragraph there was some conclusions reached which whether he can render those opinions have no problem with that he's the traffic officer and the like they use the word engineer on the report he's not an engineer certainly he could come here and testify we only have his written words but based upon what we've seen what was testified to but at no point in time did I indicate intend to mismer his reputation uh by my statement it was just the ability to render the opinion that was set forth all right thank you thank you for the clarification thank you thanks Tom so with the board one thing that would help is on the color um if you could dialogue about that we could put it in the resolution we make it conditional correct as party oh absolutely they're offering it to let the board call the color I mean the trim will be white what color is the main U Hardy plank going to be Woodstock issue of desing the color of a building that has not been approved yet oh you're going to it won't you'll be deciding it unless you approve it it's well maybe we shouldn't have that discussion at before well you should have it in the resolution so we could add as a condition your resolution will will address it and you'll either vote the resolution yes or no no not based on the color based upon everything mark please out of order so folks here we so you know when I look at the the ordinance I believe what it says and let me get it exactly you want to pick a color similar to the other buildings in in the area uh you find it real quick here shall be similar to types and textures materials and covers colors as well uh that are in the area and other areas of town center so when I look at some of the bigger buildings down Town um it's more of a neutral color um anybody want to make a recommendation I think this side was um partial to Montery to was it which is that can you hold that up one of them was it what was it mon to right it was one of them this is the one okay yeah okay what's that anybody have any other thoughts or is that going to be our selection why do we excuse me I I want to ask a question and Tom clarify it again why do we need to pick an exact color right now to um you don't need to but but we could just put it as a condition as part of if if we you know go to vote and we put a condition that you know the color of the building would be come back to the board for approval be because it's clearer if you do it the resolution okay and they're offering to resolve it tonight I coming back requires a new noticed hearing it requires an re R returning to the board the only the board majority can determine this subject so so so your recommendation is that my recommendation is pick a color you could pick two colors or you two options you could give them you could say all five areed by one or to five I I think I've never seen this before this I haven't I disagree we we' picked you picked the color on you picked the color on Stop and Shop you picked the color on multiple buildings as offered by the applicant when they appeared as similar to this could you go over what the other conditions are so the basic motion is you're dealing with a motion this will be a proposed motion and you can you can add to it or subtract from it um it's a motion of the planning board to approve the preliminary and final site plan and related variances and site plan exceptions uh has presented in the hearings and throughout the hearings and in the revised plans and Exhibits and it'll be subject to the uh standard conditions it be subject to a condition as offer that they comply with the review report of um uh Katherine and Dave Simmons uh they and the fire department the uh and next condition is uh as offered by the applicant uh the applicant will request and authorize the Board of Ed to have uh school buses come onto the apartment building property and into the parking lot to pick up and drop off uh school age children uh next condition as requested by the applicant title the applicant will request that the council approve an ordinance applying title 39 motor vehicle laws to the property and the driveway so that they can be enforced by the police department um number three um they will comply I'm sorry they will comply with the uh revised architectural elevations and materials uh including the Hardy Board presented at the 61924 meeting uh for now I'll just say which shall be be uh the main main Hardy Board color shall be the U taupe it was uh I did someone say the exact name of taupe it was monter Monteray to with white trim um they will in comply with DCA requirements regarding um the apartment building including child safety screen uh they will comply with the standard conditions uh they will um provide signage of no through traffic for the easements uh to as recommended by Mr Burton uh for the existing easements to the um Park adjacent sites parking lots to and from uh and they will comply with all ordinances including the 6% I'm sorry the six units of affordable housing and six units of for sale uh condominium units I may Tom one other we testified will comply with the requirements of the Department of utilities that was their memo of May 8th I'm sorry I didn't hear that I didn't have the mic I apologize uh will comply with the requirements of the Department of utilities which was dated May 8th 24 and the reference to the signage was based upon the portion of Corporal Morris's memo of mayther okay and no PVC did did they mention also adding the four Dormers to the back we we can make a specific condition that they'll be uh adding the four Dormers or more four more ders to the rear of or side of the building facing 517 it's a side actually and um gen in a unifor in a way acceptable to the planning department and the I don't know the majority can decide whether they want to add the uh it's it's really hard to restrict what kind of materials people use on nobody he said he would oh okay well then well we would consider that we B it's not what he said that it's we haven't chosen the materials yet we said we would consider it I think if that satisfies a board member too that's that's just reasonable to just require it I that sounds like what something Joan wants so um and is there a second is there a motion in a second with Jon's being the commentary there was also early on uh an agreement to plant extra evergreen trees um I think it's on the plan now okay and also extra planting of trees and shrubs within the parking area that's on the plan now okay thank you no the case is over that's the attorney is doing a closing I'd like to say something if if I just might um and that is is that um you know we've heard from the public regarding perhaps unsafe Ingress or egress and I would like clarification at or a statement from Kurt Morris uh explaining his opinion if there is safe or unsafe uh Ingress or egress and make that possibly a condition the case is over tonight and the applicant is not postponing Mr mors is not here so board has to make a decision regardless wasn't his only suggestion that you put the no through traffic signs that's that's the only thing in here and they said they would do that right yep yes yeah you could Tom there was some recommendations in the memo that Corporal Mor moris suggested so at a minimum they said they would do the they would do this I we already put a condition specifically on that point yeah an explicit condition no there will be signs saying no through traffic for those easements so would that would anyone like to make a motion to uh to approve the um the site plan as recommended uh by Tom is put put put forth by Tom I won say recommended but put forth those conditions that's with the um taupe color and with the no PVC uh railings I'll make a motion I'll second got Ernie I'll second okay Miss Fox roll call please Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Janette Burke yes Christine dunar abstain Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes Celeste Luciano yes Ernie rstat yes Mike Sylvester yes chairman Ronde yes motion carries it be a memorializing resolution thank you all for your consideration thank you and thank you to everybody um for uh bearing with this was a long hearing and a couple nights and we appreciate everybody's input thank you thank you very much for your time thank you good luck can we take a five minute will or and five minute bre Daniel borf from the law firm of baset hooker uh representing jvp Ventures i i i prior to this meeting there was the executive session um and Mr Collins had mentioned that you might be having a special session next week would it be possible that we carry our application this evening uh to that's special session next week only because I I anticipate that we're not going to get to us tonight and I I agree I just um I think we've we've got others there we could put this on as well well what do we have for the the special meeting right now Dory uh right now we have um the baringer application okay we have the Lakeland Bank yeah um and then of course it depends on what happens with Chase Bank and Thor lab okay what about the special meeting in July Haven got we keep those yeah we're keeping them yeah there are A9 okay so it sounds like we've got room on the 26 to add this one yes okay we'll add this one so we'll we we will just confirm on the record that the uh application of jvp Ventures pine cone Plaza 172 woodport Road will be carried without additional notices to the special meeting of the board on June 26 2024 at 700 p.m. thank you Mr thank you very much chairman and and members of the board I appreciate that thank you have a good evening motion to take a okay minute bre five minute break and and let's let's get back sharply a quarter after so we've got two more we'd like to try to get through like a booster e e e e e e e e e e e e e want to welcome the folks from uh JP Morgan Chase Bank on plan board application 711 uh 27 Sparta Avenue block 5019 lot 17 in the tth TCC Zone and this is for a it's just being carried from the 515 agenda for car solar report so welcome uh good evening Mr chairman members of the board um Erica Antonio pario of kesa shahinian and John tamasi um appearing on behalf of the owner and applicant JP Morgan Chase Bank NA um and as the chairman noted with respect to their proposed development on the property located at 27 Sparta Avenue and designated as block 5019 lot 17 um this evening we're seeking amended preliminary and final major site plan approval to install our solar carport over the existing surface parking area of the existing Commercial Bank we're not proposing any changes to the existing Bank building um and as our engineer will go through the the carport is part of Chase's green initiative in which they re invest in renewable energy including solar carports at various Chase owned properties um solar devices such as this carport are permitted accessory use in the TCC Zone as they're customary and incidental to the permitted use of the bank um we're not seeking any variances this evening we do have a number of pre-existing non-conformities which we would seek to continue which our engineer can discuss um my office submitted an Affidavit of mailing Pro of publication in advance of this meeting uh we've received a number of review letters and we will address those comments through our testimony um I have this evening two witnesses for you uh consisting of civil engineering and our professional planner um unless the board has questions for me I'd like to call my first witness Tom before we go any further if we Bank there do do I have to rec myself oh if you're uh yes if you have a bank account with Chase or a loan it would be best to recu how do that just walk away yeah you you're so is how let's make sure we don't have a Ru necessity problem but anyone else have a bank account or loan with Chase Bank no problem so we have three so let's have you three req it's a of Janette credit card what's that credit card uh oh no not the Visa credit card I don't think but but basically uh this if you use this Branch let's let's try to be sensitive to that um what that means is you could go in the audience or in the hallway and we'll call you back for the next case so I think so it's three four members coun three members and we still have a quarum we still have a quarum so um and yes we are here on this site plan application and the board has jurisdiction to hear this site plan application and please go ahead Erica sure uh so my first witness this evening is Lindsay rice um and I can give her the microphone thank you Lindsay please raise your right hand do you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do and please St your name and address at least a business address and spell your last name Lindsay rice spelled re e i s with stone field engineering at 92 Park Avenue Rutherford New Jersey thank you Lindsay um I don't believe Lindsay has testified here before the sparta planning board so some limited qualifications would be helpful sure I have a Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from buckno University I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey that license is current and in good standing I've prepared over 30 site plans of similar size and scope to the application before you this evening many of which minor site improvements to existing commercial facilities just like this one um I presented over 20 projects in various formats while this is my first opportunity to give direct testimony before L use board in New Jersey I have attended close to 40 hearings I'm very familiar with the process um this project is well within my professional expertise thank you I the board will recognize and accept Lindsay rights qualification as a professional engineer and uh please go ahead and give your testimony uh thank you so Lindsay I guess we could just start can you just indicate your familiarity with the site and the project yeah sure so I um I reviewed the municipal ordinance with regard to this application I assisted in the preparation of the plans and I have reviewed the professionals review letters most recent ones and the ones provided previously for this application so can you just walk the board through the plans that are before them this evening um with respect to the project the improvements um and you know the the cardboard itself sure so I'd like to start with the existing conditions so um I have first exhibit to introduce an aerial exhibit okay thank you yes that'll be A1 aerial exhibit and just maybe the first part just describe what it is if you want to pre-mark any more than one you could just go in sequence A1 A2 A3 if if they're part of your existing package though and they're not rendered or changed you don't need to give them an exhibit number I believe this is a new yeah that's that seems like it so yeah the rest of our exhibits are previously submitted okay you also indicate the date of this yes dated 51524 prepared by Stonefield so this is a high resolution recent near map image of our site and the surrounding features you can see we're at um 27 Sparta Avenue our site is Zone TCC Town Center commercial and the surrounding properties are also Zone TCC so to the east we have a small retail strip to the north is the sparta Cemetery buffered from our site by about 50 ft of mature trees you can see in the image to the West is the wagmore pet boutique and then across spart Avenue we have the sparta Dairy so on site we have the existing Chase Bank branch we have access provided via one Ingress only and one egress only driveway circulation you can see is counterclockwise it runs around the rear of the site and there's a drive up ATM and Teller window and then there are parking spaces in the rear of the building there are 17 spaces in the existing condition you can see in this image there are seven spaces that are kind of centrally located here um they they're exposed to the sun currently they're not shaded by any existing trees that'll be important later um so that's that's the existing condition and then next I'd like to introduce the overall site plan which was submitted previously prepared by black and& Beach um and that will give us an idea of the proposed configuration and location of our carport so when evaluating its existing branch locations Chase first assesses the potential for rooftop solar as that's the most cost- effective it's preferred when possible unfortunately for this application in particular the roof was deemed not suitable for rooftop solar um it just wasn't designed to withstand the additional stresses of the panels themselves and also the activity to install the panels those additional loads the wind loads things like that weren't taken into consideration with the initial design so um additionally with the existing apperences on the roof it's a flat roof it has some equipment there there's limited surface area available for rooftop solar so it makes more sense in this case to pursue a carport instead unfortunately for us our site is pretty suitable for a solar car port just like this over those spes that I mentioned previously so as Miss Paro indicated we are not seeking any variance relief with this application our proposed solar car port is in permitted accessory use um it complies with the minimum setback and height requirements and while there are some existing non-conformities here today we're not exacerbating them the two existing nonconformities in question are impervious coverage which um 40% is allowed and the existing condition has 53% and the parking stall Dimensions it's permitted to have 9x 20 but that's what's required and we currently have 9 by8 and 1 half spaces so just as I mentioned we're not creating any new variances our proposed height of our carport is 132 ft which complies with the accessory structure height requirement has a clear height underneath of 9 ft as well um it's about a 20t wide by 50t or 20t Deep by 50t wide carport over these existing stalls in the rear in the center of the parking lot there and um that accommodates 56 solar panels so those panels provide Approximately 80% of the bank's energy um demand or achieves that 80% 78% of the bank's energy demand so the carport is can delevered which means that um in order to minimize disturbance to the parking stalls we are proposing the three steel beam columns within the landscape area adjacent to the parking so there'll be the three cium columns with concrete peers and then the carport extends over the spaces so I have an image that I'll introduce shortly that will give you a better idea of what that looks like um the structure as I mentioned is fully compliant with accessory structure requirements and we selected this location as I mentioned previously for the proposed carport as it provides shelter for um from the elements and also shade over these parking spaces where non-exist today it also provides obviously the added benefit of solar energy for the branch and it has minimal to zero visual impact from the adjacent properties and from the right of way to illustrate that last piece we have our next exhibit which is also previously submitted photo realistic rendering of the proposed carport and um it'll show it from various viewsheds so if there are no questions I'll move on to that do we hold up or ask questions you have much more testimony to go or um I'm about half through I like to let her why don't we go get it get it done and then we come back and ask questions so this is a previously submitted photo Sim exhibit I'm going to stand for a moment um this first sheet just will show the the four view sheds that we're going to walk through um this is produced by black and& Beach prepared on May 2nd 2024 so as requested we we were asked to provide a view shed showing what the carport is going to look like so we have a few different views here um this first view shed is if you're standing near the corner of the building um looking in the direction of the parking stalls and where the cport will be proposed so the rear corner of the building um so typically these carports are designed with a 5 Dee tilt which is the minimum to allow for them to be self cleaning oh we have packets if if you don't have them already on you with these so you can look at them uh you might as well pass them out that's helpful thank you so they're typically designed with a little bit of a tilt which allows them to be self cleaning to prevent dust accumulation and debris buildup and things like that um also thank you typical for these solar panel structures is for them to be designed with gaps in between the panels so they're about half an inch wide and that allows for rainfall and snow melt to trickle between the panels and um rather than accumulating at the end of the roof structure and being concentrated there it kind of trickles throughout and is then similar to as if it was just rainfalling on the ground in the existing condition so we did receive a comment from the board engineer regarding concerns about snow melt and ice so we took that into consideration with our design um previously we had the the low end of the roof over the parking stall so anything that did make its way to the end would fall on top of the pavement we decided to reverse that so now we're currently showing the Tilt in the other direction so anything that does make its way to the end will fall into the landscape area rather than onto the pavement uh we're also proposing our inverter equipment on the column closest to the building here um you can't really see it in the image it's pretty small but again we received a comment regarding utilities screening them more possible so taking that into consideration we rotated the location of the inverter so it's facing away from the parking so it's kind of more hidden from view um and then our planner is going to speak to the the architectural standards of the TCC Zone and more of the Aesthetics but just in general I want to make a note that we're intending to paint this to align with the color scheme of the existing building so kind of a warm off-white color so this is our second view shed which is as if you're standing in Sparta Avenue looking at the building and looking toward the parking lot near the Ingress driveway as you can see here the building pretty much entirely blocks from view the parking and also our proposed carport you can kind of see peeking out in the corner there little bit of the end of the carport but it's virtually fully blocked from View and then view3 is very similar but from the egress driveway instead once again pretty much no visual impact from the right of way um then finally we have a fourth view shed which just shows the rear of the building where our proposed building mounted equipment will be and you can see that it's located in the same general area as the existing utility meters and HVAC equipment so that's what the the building will look like okay then I just want to touch on a few more things trying to keep it quick here um lighting there's existing poles on site there are four poles we're not touching them um there will be so those those existing poles provide illumination to the parking lot in the existing condition because of the proposed structure blocking some of that illumination over the existing stalls there we're proposing two canopy fixtures underneath the canopy they're just 6t LED strips which will provide sufficient illumination underneath the canopy um the lighting schedule will be From Dusk Till Dawn which is the same as the building lighting that was a comment we received CH again you you mentioned try to be quick please take your time and you know feel comfortable to you know to say it at the pace that you're comfortable don't feel Rush please sure thank you I am a little nervous with regard to Landscaping um the current site is very well landscaped in the front it's got as I mention mature trees in the rear between our site and the cemetery and then there's also mature plantings along either side of the property so we're not proposing to add any Landscaping with this application we're also not removing any Landscaping with the carports um fortunately for us there's this open space in the center of the parking lot that currently has no trees no shade so um we won't have to disturb any existing mature trees to propose this and we get the added benefit of creating shade where there isn't any currently over these stalls so we addressed most of the comments provided by the board professionals just in testimony here oh yeah uh Lindsay could you just while we're on the topic of landscaping um can you just discuss um the reason that we're not really proposing any additional plantings like in and around the area of the carports sure so if we were to propose a in the in the island where the the carport is proposed it would result in a reduction of energy output um one tree for example would reduce the energy that's generated by about 145% so we're trying to maximize our energy generation and on the topic related to energy Generation Um can you just discuss kind of briefly what you know the design of the carports and what they're intended to do for the bank in relation to the bank's energy as as well as the grid itself so the utility requires that any energy that's generated beyond what is required of the bank would be sent back into the grid but based on our current design we're providing about 78% of what the bank would require so um we're we're we're constrained physically by the site itself and then also constrained by various pcng requirements that were you know being held to and just for Jersey Central Power and Light I think yeah that's okay uh and just so can you just confirm though that this is designed to offset the bank's energy is not to design it's not designed to send energy back into the grid itself yes that's is correct oh okay so it's a basically a net zero proposal even though it's less are you putting the 12% back on into the grid no we're 12 we're 22% under what the bank needs so we're we're under what the bank needs so we're not generating and excess were all right so you're using it all yes all right yes so um one other comment I just want to quickly touch on in the engineering letter was with regard to construction phasing so this is a pretty minor work scope anticipated to take approximately 2 weeks um the the immediate parking stalls in the vicinity of the carport may be out of commission temporarily but in this age of online banking we're not ever seeing this parking lot full so we don't anticipate that that would be an issue also circulation is not impacted by the proposed development we still have um access to the drive a that goes around the building to the ATM uh and I guess along similar lines so that some comments we received in reports have you reviewed all the reports yes um and do you take issue with any of the comments contained in the reports we received we'll agree to comply with we'll agree to comply with everything in the reports we don't take any issue with any of the the comments um unless the board has questions I have no further questions I I do okay thank you so would that let's bring it to the dis and so from aesthetically the steel ey beams you know you look at the the the drive-thru with the post which I'm assuming are steel ey beams they're capped with aluminum correct yeah I believe so I believe so so these steel I beams is there any way to cap them so they don't you're not staring at steel ey beams and then also the footings out of the ground is there any way to make them look more aesthetically pleasing we could well we are intending to paint them um we could potentially work out some something um I would say our planner is going to speak a little bit more to the Aesthetics and what's possible in that regard okay all right thank you I have a question as well um so on the drawing here um I see that the that there's one section here where you're going to have the solar panels over these cars do you also intend to have it here or it's just here it's just where shown in that image okay all right those other cars are they're shaded by existing mature trees so Goa wouldn't be Peaceable okay that's it what is the Pascal rating on this I do not know the answer to that um in other words if you had a heavy snowfall so maybe 3 4T it probably be a 5,000 Pascal rating um can you like at least address a 3 or 4ot snowfall and yeah these how strong this would be structures are designed with snow loads in mind in accordance with requirements set forth by the the country the federal requirements and what are they how much snow can this particular unit hold I'm not a structural engineer so I can't really speak to that um I could get that information yeah that'd be a concern we can provide it I guess Lindsay could you just maybe reiterate uh the design of these and how you know precipitation is you know comes off of them and the design of them and how that affects precipitation and snow yeah sure so it is designed when snow loads in mind but also um between the panels there are gaps to allow for snow melt to fall in between so it is anticipated that while at times snow would accumulate on the roof it it would be able to filter it way in between the panels and either slide off or drip through the when it melts gaps when it melts yes yeah cuz we could get some significant uh snowfall and don't want to see a structure falling down sure of course so if you would get back to us on that I can do that uh you mentioned the lighting being on the additional lighting being planned to be on From Dusk to Dawn MH can you explain the reasoning why Dust to Dawn and is there an opportunity to cut those back at a certain point they're designed to maintain the same schedule as the existing bank and that's currently the lighting schedule that the bank is on um if is there a concern about yeah just when the bank's closed extra light pollution um is that you're saying the parking light the parking lot lights are Dust to Dawn as well yes okay is there a drive-thru there yeah there is okay that' be for security correct yes okay uh is the number or the dimensions of those parking spaces changing at all with this no okay and um thinking of the snow melt stormw management is there any what's the heat generated by the panels or by the infrastructure that could be added here is there any well they are covered in a um like a no reflection paint um so as far as glare goes that's not concern yeah but I guess um I don't know that I have an answer regarding the heat generated by them I don't think that there really much is any okay so I have for now thank you okay questions that I I was going to ask have been asked to answer already so yeah have quick one or two of them just just for clarification are is is it your client's intention to own and operate or are you out sub subletting this out to a third party no I believe the intention is that they would own and operate the panels all right and then from a maintenance perspective as far as cleaning them you know if in a case of snow load and all that that would be the facilities management or Property Management responsibility you're not Outsourcing that to a third party or responsibility right yeah and um are you looking to repave the entire parking lot as part of the project no or are you just looking to set the system in place the the scope of work is strictly for the carport and its Associated utility trenching okay that's it for now thanks CHR I'm good thank you same here good um we should probably should have gone to professionals first let's jump let's do to Katherine why we start with you first since Dave normally has to start off so I believe most of the comments I had were addressed um you know largely in regards to the town center design standards section um which this property is subject to because of it zoning um and it was mentioned that the you know the color the painted color would try um match the existing building and that largely the structure would be screened behind the existing building as well and would not be visible um some of my other questions um were related to the storm water um because the site already does exceed the impervious coverage now that's not being changed by this because it's over an existing paved area but still this plan is before the board and so it's you know it's a I think it's a valid question um and in addition to that I would ask if the applicant is proposing to um you know restripe the parking lot or any of the directional U markings on the pavement we are not would the applicant be amendable to um I mean you in the I don't know on she two of it you can see very clearly that the you know the pavement markings the directional markings are pretty worn um and so while you know the site improvements are being undertaken I don't think that that's NE neily a a large ask um and you know I think it would go a long way to to improve this site as well we can agree to restripe but we wouldn't we wouldn't Mill and overlay that's fine that's fine I just want to see you know some improvements on the markings um and that's that's all that's all the additional questions I have thanks thank you Mr Simmons I'm batting clean up tonight uh the applicant and all the board members address pretty much all the issues there just a couple things that we've done in other applications in other municipalities uh if the board approves the application and it's installed one of the things we recommend from a safety standpoint is if the applicants willing to have their technicians and their maintenance staff give the fire department a tour of the facilities and guide them God forbid if there was an emergency where they know where the cut off switches are and what have you just to take care of that properly and be safe doing it yeah absolutely okay uh the other thing I pointed out just so the board knows on their inverters they did have some uh data on the noise level and it was about 62 DB which was fine uh that exceeds the nighttime deci but correct me if I'm wrong nighttime it's not working anyway because it's dark so you're not going to have the noise and also that's in the location of the carport not at the property line yep and we called for as built plans and again there were several details on the inverters and the solar panels and the electronics itself as well as the various warning signs for the facility I deferred all that to the construction official when they apply for the permitting for the project if the board approves it just so he can go over all that that's all I have Mr chairman thank you Mr chairman can I ask another question there please um are there any EV ready spots or charging stations on this property today and are there any planned with this there are not today day and um with a Redevelopment like this we're not required to install them if that's something that the board would like we could consider it typically in a development of this size with this few parking spaces it's not something that's required okay if it's under 25 spaces yeah yeah that's okay no it's not going to change any of the Ada parking correct right no no okay just curious thank you sure all right unless anyone else d has questions I'm going to open it up to the public is the public good evening Kathy I been cow and scutters road please raise your right hand do you swear from to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do thank you please go ahead um what is the height relation height in relation to the existing building uh I didn't I wasn't able to see the perspective on that I know you mentioned it was 13 and 1 12 ft tall how tall is the building itself and is it taller than the building the existing structure let me double check our existing building is 23 ft in height and our proposed height is 13 and a half that's no no it's not okay it is not higher is I I guess the answer to my question okay thank you um second question will this structure impede pedestrian traffic to the building in any way no the proposed columns are within a landscape area currently so okay um Mr blti answered or asked my question about uh the Ada spaces are they actually they located under the structure or are they to the side yeah the existing Ada space is underneath it's the closest to the building under the proposed carport okay um from the pictures I was able to kind of see from back there the corner of the rear of this structure the corner seems to be um close to where the existing circulation pattern is um around is that the case the the footprint of the carport does not extend beyond the curb line no okay um in terms of on the ground um with the structure above the third at the 13t Mark um are we expecting uh that to impede fire trucks no can you explain more about that like do we know Heights and it just seems really small back there and if a fire truck was needed to go back there it doesn't appear that one could fit because of that extension of where that is I would say based on the size of a fire truck it probably wouldn't be trying to squeeze into the parking stall area anyway it would be in the drive AIS so it wouldn't be impacted by the carport okay what is the mitigation plan if someone hits the structure if a larger um vehicle or a car or anything hits that structure what is expected to happen it is designed with a 9ot clearance um which is which is sufficient for most standard Vehicles if it were to be hit then it would be the responsibility of the branch to repair it okay um what type of lights are being installed or first let me ask are there is lights being installed under the structure is that right yes there are 6 Foot Led strips six does the carport cover the drive-thru portion or is it separated it's sep it just covers those parking stalls just the parking stalls okay can't read my writing I think I'm good thank you thank you thank you Kathy any other members from the public wish to speak ask questions okay uh that's all I have for um Miss rice any other testimony yeah we have one additional uh witness it would be our professional planner I'm not sure if he want us to start or uh how long do you think that will take approximately okay um okay then I'd like to call my next witness um which would be Mr TJ Richie also from Stonefield Richie uh please raise your right hand speaking into a mic do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God yes I do and please stay your name spell your last name and give us an at least a business address sure TJ REI last name is spelled r i CCI business address 92 Park EV Rutherford New Jersey thank you I guess you have not testified here before so some quick qualifications would be in order yeah I haven't testified here but I have testified uh easily over 100 times uh in front of at least 75 ports throughout the state of New Jersey and New York uh licensed professional planner in state New Jersey nationally certified by the American Institute of certified planners um bachelor's and master's degree in city and Regional planning both from Rucker University my licenses are active and in good standing the board will accept Mr Richie's qualifications as a professional planner and please go ahead thank you uh Mr Richie can you can you just give the board um your testimony and your opinions with respect to the site and the proposed project yeah I'd be happy to um well whereare are the hour so I promise I'm going to keep this brief just uh G to give you know just a quick introduction um uh about the planning piece of this and then uh kind of go through uh Katherine's letter um board planner and just see if there's anything that that needs tying up there with regards to the TCC Zone um so just to iterate this is an accessory structure it is permitted because it directly serves the Bank building um with regards to the variances we're not seeking any because with accessory structures they actually require that you use the principal structure requirements with regards to setbacks and height we're well in compliance with the height and we're within the building setback um for the principal building so no variances are needed for this um now in Katherine's letter um it was discussed how this aligns with the TCC Zone requirements um now there's two I guess we'll call them sets of requirements one is called a site design spatial requirement so that's really how sites are laid out where buildings face where you put accessory structures um what's the prevailing orientation of the building so where the entrances are obviously this is just a solar canopy application this is not a new development but I will say our bank is developed consistent with all the other Lots around us I would say the one um goal that would be applicable in that section of TCC Zone requirements was that you put parking in the back and accessory structures and uses towards the rear of the site which we're which we you know we're good with um and then the second piece of that is the architectural requirements um as I mentioned this is not a building this is a solar car port um there's not a whole lot of architectural variety when it comes to the design of carports um most of the requirements promote um architectural requirements from an aesthetic standpoint like decorative cornices and um you know facade treatments and things of that nature obviously those things wouldn't be applicable to um a solar car port um but as Miss rice did testify too what we're going to do what we plan to do is is paint the um primary supports to match the building so so it blends in you know it works with the site with the existing building um it's going to be a a beige or a it's going to be a beige or a gray whatever is matching that maner roof that's out on the building now um with regards to the solar panels themselves we obviously can't change that color so the secondary supports that are going to be supporting those panels are going to be a gray so they blend in with those um solar panels now there's a bunch of trees that essentially wrap the back of the site so actually that that darker solar panel is is kind of good because it kind of helps blend in um with a backdrop of the trees back there and you really only see the um the columns themselves which will as I mentioned match the uh the building um and this is consistent with what's in the area I mean most buildings in the area um they have a red brick exterior and then most of the accent colors on these buildings kind of range from a Browns and tans and beiges which is exactly what what our building has here and what we're proposing to match with the solar canopy uh so with regards to those standards I think we're right in line as line as in line as we can be um for a solar panel uh solar canopy application um with regards to uh treatments on the H beams or the I beams whatever they end up using uh themselves I think the intention was uh not to do that just because there actually is electrical accessory equipment that's mounted to that beam and I think that was the reason that I imagine we would be able to wrap it probably with a some sort of faux brick material but I'm not sure if that would um impede the ability to mount this electrical equipment from you know a functionality standpoint from a you know a regulation standpoint so I think that was that's usually the intention uh on keeping it the exposed H beam and then just painting it to match the building um with regards to the concrete footings there are twoot exposed concrete footings at the base and and I think it's as it's been talked about that's in order to prevent hopefully a car if a car were ever to hit into the beam it protects that structural um Integrity of the um of the unit itself so that's the reason for um keeping them exposed rather than uh dropping them into the ground um that sums up everything from a planning standpoint TJ if you could just briefly go through I think one of the comment letters there was a mention of a possible design waiver with respect to shade trees um being in parking aisles and and you know being provided in parking as parking aisle plantings can you just briefly kind of touch on that and uh the justification if you know the board if the board believes we needed a design waiver for that um can you just go through that quickly yeah I'd be happy to um so the ordinance requires that shade trees are located in planted islands of parking lots obviously there's no um new parking lot design being proposed here um no trees currently exist within that planted Island but if you see in the renderings this whole site is wrapped in trees um if we were this is technically an existing non-conforming condition um if we were to try to squeeze trees in here it you would add a little bit more Greenery to an already green site and you probably take away the whole point of what the solar panel is trying to do and that's capture the sunlight um so I mean from a classic C2 benefits versus detriments test I think the you know if we needed to seek that waiver I think it's a pretty reasonable request uh you know give it that this is a solar panel and you want to keep it clear of trees in that direct area um yeah I mean really Su of this up from planning standpoint us as planners we look to keep buildings that have been existing in downtowns for sometimes for some time um sometimes you have to make adjustments like this to help modernize this I know the municipal land use law specifically uh promotes the use of renewable energy resources so directly Al lines with um that goal of the ml um I think this is as Miss rice mentioned this is a perfect candidate for this because we have this existing parking lot we're not creating any variances from it and it's permitted accessory use I think it's it's really a win-win that sums up the planning testimony but happy to answer any questions I have no further questions for uh Mr Richie if the board has questions I'm I'm sure he'd be happy to answer them DAV let me start with you any additional questions questions based on the testimony not at this time no sir Catherine um you know I'm I'm satisfied with the planner testimony I think you know one of the the benefits to the application is can you use the mic please so sorry one of the benefits to the application is that um I did raise that the town the town center design standards and Architectural standards that are required to be complied with which also cross cross reference the Town Center master plan design standards which uh we talked about in the last application and although this isn't for primary building I think some of those are still applicable um and what I was saying before about to the benefit of the applicant is that when this site was was previously developed it did follow those Town Center master plan guidelines very closely meaning it pushed parking behind the building which is why they're able to kind of obscure the proposed canopy and I think they've made some changes in regards to Mr Simmons comments and some of my comments about the attenuation of that um to avoid any kind of additional um potential precipitation sliding off into the parking lot so some safety concerns I think they've they they've really followed with um some of Dave's comments I think as far as a visual impact they've kind of identified that it won't have a visual impact which was one of my largest concerns because I think those Town Center design standards are there for a reason and something like this could easily um get out of hand and be in um in violation of those but I do think that it's hidden pretty pretty distinctly behind the building and uh it will add the you know the benefit of renewable energy which um is um without visual impact which I think will be you know is a good cause thank you okay bring it back to the Ernie um no I have uh no questions and um the an environmental commission um did offer Chris use your mic please did offer um that um with the solar installation this location may be eligible for Sparta Township's green business initiative um so I suppose the the bank manager might be somebody to see about that have you have you uh dealt with this before with your projects um I haven't spoken to them about it but if you know it's something they would consider I don't have an answer for you on that question tonight but we you know are aware of that comment and so is the applicant okay thank you no questions no questions here sounds fine so you mentioned the the lighting uh now and also earlier heard about the lighting under the carport the additional lighting being added um I understand you said that there are there are six feet long LED strips I believe are there Alternatives or other ideas around changing the lighting to perhaps make it less industrial feeling or less um I don't know more in character with the town without decreasing safety and decreasing are there any options for different lighting it could be put underneath there well first of all will they even be visible from the side no because they're hidden by the uh solar panels themselves they're they're recessed under the panels so to speak that's correct so you're trying to shed light on the people getting in and out of cars under the panels that's correct they shine down so they're probably invisible but they would best uh yeah I think the the strip that they're talking about versus sometimes we run into this with canopies for example at gas stations when we've had them before we always recommend that the lights be recessed up in if they hang down then you start to see the glow of the element of the light itself and in what I'm hearing in this uh with the structural members that are going to support the panels it's going to be nestled up in into them and you'll basically just see the resulting light coming down okay and we have a situation where it's not like you're driving up a driveway and you can look under those panels it's a fairly flat parking area in the back so I I think it's going to help diffuse it pretty well okay okay no other questions thank you um question sorry uh just want to thank the board for their time and consideration I you know I don't oh sorry yeah we so so I think uh we still need to open up to the public before we we place this to a vote I know we've got a um no testimony after 10 o'clock so I I think we could still have questions if everyone be amable to that just try to get this one through tonight so um i' I'd like to open up to the public and and ask to the public um try to be concise with your questions if uh for any questions that you have um because we still have some things to do after we finish uh this particular hearing so with that let me open up to the public for any questions additional questions that you may have okay R why why don't you open it for comments too because it might be possible to be finished tonight thank you does the public have any comments testimony okay right see n none Tom can you help us with a with a motion may I just ask Dave are you satisfied then that it could handle three to four feet of snow I'm sorry are you satisfied that it could handle three to four feet of snow you know I'd have to check the codes to see what the uh estimated snow load would be for this area for this type of application but based on what I've seen in other applications uh they're going to have to satisfy the construction official that they're going to have to satisfy that particular snow load and I think you have a situation here where because there's no shade uh because they're keeping the Landscaping away from it you're going to get that sunlight to help melt the snow anyway so granted you can get some prolonged freezing times and get some accumulation but I think they'll take that into consideration when they do the structural analysis okay thank you and we would we would of course comply with all building code requirements with respect to the structure and you know the snow okay if the board would entertain it you could consider a motion to approve the preliminary and final amended preliminary and final site plan application of related uh site plan exceptions sorry so if the board would consider it it's a motion to approve the preliminary and final site plan and related uh site plan exceptions uh subject to the conditions that were discussed this evening subject to the standard conditions subject to Dave Simmons and and uh Katherine Mod's review reports uh they'll provide the snow loading compliance information to the planning department uh they'll uh the bank will own and is another condition the bank will own and maintain the car ports and solar panels um they will uh re there's another condition they will restripe the parking lot and directional uh pavement markings uh uh they will another condition is they'll give the fire department a tour an explanation of the system and the cut off uh mechanisms um next condition is they'll design and build the U carports as proposed with the revisions of the paint color similar to the beige of the building uh as shown in the in the exhibits uh for the post and if possible they'll add aluminum cladding if that in in a manner that would look like the post of the carport but that is dependent on the feasibility with the uh wiring and cabling um is there such a motion motion to approve second all right so we have Joan as a first and who is a second of second okay mayor Dean blti yes Janette B yes Christine Dunbar yes Joan Ferman yes Ernie ragad yes Mike Sylvester yes chairman Ronde yes all right motion approved thank you thank you all have a good even thank you okay could you tell them to come back in folks back in okay so with that um we were hoping to get the Thor Labs tonight we're not going to get there so um we're going to need to set another date for for that if that's acceptable come forward I'm sorry thank you my name is Peter Donnelly I'm an attorney I'm here on behalf of Thor Labs uh I understand you don't take uh applications at this late hour so we'll have to carry this unless the board wants to stay we have about a 15minute presentation we think we can get back through this in about half the time the bank's presentation see unfortunately we've got some other business we have to take care of manag business we have to do so we're still going to be here for for a while so like to to set a new date if that's acceptable uh yes i' I've already spoken to the clerk I know you have a meeting later this month which is not going to match up with some of our schedules so the July meeting I guess would be the next one would be available for us so would you be agre to benefit July 17th meeting yes July 17th fine July 17th so Peter will you extend the time frame for action until July 18th yes thank you and we'll just confirm for the record that the Thor lab's application um is carried without additional notices uh to July 17th uh 2024 at 7 p.m. at this meeting room thank you okay thank you the other's carry over okay uh thank you everybody so that gets to the uh other board business uh of the meeting does anybody any any member of the board have any other board business that you'd like to bring up okay see none that gets us to the uh updates uh Deputy Mayor B anything from the Town Council yeah I have a few things I'm going to update you on uh everyone on the last two meetings with the Town Council May 28th and June 11th uh first update is is the council recognized uh as we usually do two recipients this year as the outstanding senior Spartans of the year uh I'd like to congratulate uh and I intended the dinner which was very very nice uh the two recipients the two winners were Maryann Francisco and Reverend David McDonald uh second item is the uh Council uh CFO Town manager uh we approved uh the consolidation of outstanding debt of about $9 million which included a large portion of short-term notes and it was created into a longer term bond offering which should help smooth out cash flow and save the township money in the long run third and of particular interest to to this group is the parking design standards uh recommended ordinance from the planning board was introduced at the last meeting and the planning will uh the hearing will be the next council meeting on June 25th fourth uh the final Municipal budget was adopted and um before I forget also the fifth item is that the council uh as is typical during the summer months has canceled one meeting in July and one meeting in August so those canceled meetings are July 9th and August 13th so we are uh keeping July 23rd and August 27th and then finally I just wanted to share uh an update that I had shared during the council meeting uh specifically related to the planning board and uh so I shared an analysis of some historical data um and very recent reports that the township had received from rating agencies about the the state of Sparta I'll call it and in terms of how we uh are fostering and welcoming businesses and economic growth and uh I did it to reinsure the public uh because you know there's um just to reassure the public that we are U doing a good job economic growth is going really well we're being rated highly and we have a strong financial position and we are um remaining very attractive to businesses uh the one report I referenced was from S&P standard and pores and that was just dated June 5th of this year U it highlighted and reinforced our double plus rating and reaffirmed it for the quality of our latest Bond offering as well they called out the Township's very strong economy praised our strong financial position with healthy reserves and low debt they noted our the local housing market remains very strong in Sparta and they called out our very strong budgetary flexibility and liquidity positions separately there was another rating a rating agency presentation put together to accompany those the recent Bond offering and that was May 29th 2014 um that report highlighted that the township maintains a sizable tax base with a very strong market value per capita and noted that commercial properties have grown 14% since 2019 also uh property valuations uh we looked at ratables for the past eight years and property valuations for the past years and every single year over the last eight years the trend has continued upwards so ratables property valuations have continued to increase for the last eight years every year and if you look at the breakdown by residential Farmland commercial industrial Etc the portion of the total that belongs to Commercial and Industrial uses has actually increased 12% in the last eight years and finally uh and which was the initial Focus that I had going into this and I had lots of help from from Dory uh looked at the number of planning board applications so major applications that came through the last number of years just to do a historical analysis and looked at 2018 to 20123 excluding the two pandemic years of 2020 2021 so when you look at 2018 2019 2022 2023 the major site plan applications in 2018 there were seven 2019 there was five 2022 there was six in 2023 there was nine so um just wanted to tell the public and share with them that the applications are coming in strong we all know and uh you know kudos to to Dory and the whole office and her staff for maintaining all this keeping us afloat and to all of you for all the hard work and all the preparation and all the diligence spending your time as volunteers doing this and I think it shows well in these numbers so I was happy to share that with the public uh and with my fellow Council people last meeting that concludes my report chairman D before we move forward I'd like to backpedal um just quickly to Other Board business I'm not exactly sure it's appropriate for for a lengthy conversation right now but I'd like to get it out there for an agenda item for potentially um if not next meeting which I unfortunately won't be at but definitely the meeting after um is regarding the master plan and what the plan is for the master plan given given the bud constraints okay thank you okay um Christine environmental commission thank you thank you chairman um we had our our open space and Recreation public hearing um our first one for the public and that was held on June 13th and it's happy to say I'm happy to say that it was well attended by Sparta officials thank you staff and and the public public and Barbara Davis of the Land Conservancy of New Jersey with her staff along with her staff is writing the plan which is being paid for by the New Jersey Highlands Council grant program and the open space and Recreation plans are um suggested normally to be written every five years based on changes that often occur within a community but ours is well over a decade old I thought I heard her say maybe a couple of decades old um so we're kind of playing catch up on that and um it needs to be redone for a couple of reasons and obviously the needs and composition of our community in Sparta has changed through time and once completed it can be adopted as a key element of our new master plan which will open up potential financial support for acquiring desirable Parcels for recreation and preservation so one F we did a fun kind of a fun exercise when uh during the meeting we did something called a word map picture and um many so we were we had our machines in our hands and and um what we did was is we we were asked a number of questions and um we put our word responses and a word map was developed and what our priorities were in terms of our values and what we want to see for the future um of our community um but just back up a minute um they did it they took the old master plan from 1984 and they picked out all of the major words and for that were in that particular master plan you know 30 40 years ago and the one word that really peaked out from our current current master plan is the word preserve and then there were all other values around that um taken out of the master plan we were asked questions such as um why do you live in Sparta what is your favorite Park and that sort of thing and many of the words that really popped out and were large on the screen from all of us generating this word map were hiking for us water Serenity rural character aquifer and so on so um we're going to be having um more public hearings possibly two more public hearings and there is a a procedure that will go through um Barbara Davis said that she hoped that um it would be completed in the fall this fall and then it will be sent to the environmental commission for review and then um and for comments and then it'll be passed I believe she said to the Town Council next and then for the planning board for inclusion into the master plan and this inclusion will open up opportunity ities for us to um put together um packages of financial support for lands we may consider to be important to preserve and use um as as we need um through Green Acres and and various other Grant um programs so um that was our meeting and it was very fun and exciting and I hope that we can do it again with all of you sometime and um yeah it's exciting yeah we also took we also took a tour of um previous to that we took a tour of all of Sparta with the Land Conservancy and um with officials and so we looked at all sorts of areas that I didn't even know existed little Parks you know tucked away in various places and um yeah it was it was good and uh it was the public was was very involved in the meeting and one area of particular interest was out in the Edison uh area where um he was this family was envisioning to develop the the hiking trails in that area and perhaps um linking them with other communities nearby but all sorts of good ideas yeah thank you I I did I attended a meeting it was very well done so thank you to everyone who was involved in putting that together thank you um in terms of the master plan subcommittee um we will be meeting tomorrow night and I want to give a special thanks to uh Dory and the town man and town manager Jim Zep for for helping us to facilitate that meeting that was a questionable whether or not we're going to get there so um in ter in terms of a plan forward um in terms of to answer celest question we're going to discuss those things tomorrow we have some challenges we had to get to I think you're you're aware what they are but um we do need to come up with a plan so we'll discuss that tomorrow night and and and Report the results um terms of the uh plan endorsement advisory committee you know I think originally we had hoped to have a public work shop on July 17th that's that's not going to happen um just based on the challenges we've got with hearing all these applications and you know more stuff pushing out when we were tonight so uh stay tuned there be more on that and future meetings um and I think that's that's all I have uh Bill anything on the minorite plan sub commit Grant yes so uh we did vote to approve the minutes for the all the applications from January to uh up until I think last week was was the last one that'll be included those will be available to the public um with the minutes of tonight's meeting um whenever Dorian and and her office has those prepared um really excited to see a lot of the work that we did we we we took some uh feedback from the economic development committee in town um and they're starting to make some of the changes whether it's to the application or some of the processes that we have when people do file for a minor site plan waiver um I think it's uh really positive to see that we only have a handful of applications that are still uh undecided and all of those applications we are waiting for more information from the applicants in order to either deem it eligible or make a ruling so uh kudos to uh Joan Christine Risha and Ron all all the people of the of the msps committee we're I think we're doing a really great job and um a lot of the businesses that are applying are happy with some of the turn around that that we're having um Tom we do have a question on uh on a specific application um if it's a new tenant that does not have a new sign but it's the same use would that fall under the jurisdiction of the minor site plane committee or should that be more of a zoning issue in other words the existing sign will just be changed to be the new name that's the only change well that could be an example but more specifically if the someone applies uh and they don't check that they're going to have a new sign it's just going to be a new tenant but the same use um I think that is just um zoning of officer you know Dory can check but but if they're not doing anything to the exterior of the building and they're they're not even change it's the same T type of tenant I mean if it's change of use meaning you can have if it's a doctor and it's becoming a doctor that's that's just a change in tenant not a change in use um so if it is a change in use they're supposed to go to the site plan subcommittee the the one exception that would be in the economic zone right now has to come to the full board yeah all the only zones that we do the site plan subcommittee are listed in the ordinance and they are not the Ed and not the pdrm one and not the pdm2 so the other zones uh they go to the site plan sub commmittee but if it's truly just a change in tenant uh with the exception of those other zones the Ed Zone the pdrm one and the pdrm 2 uh then they just go to the zoning officer okay thank you and that that concludes my update okay thanks so with that there are no uh new resolutions other than chairman I'm sorry uh as a result of the last hearing on the FL Holdings application you now have decided that that site will have that approval and I would recommend to you that you consider a motion to deny the extension request that was made by Captiva application because it's a it's unnecessary and too confusing and redundant so um and I think it's a good night to do that is there's no deadlines or's anything for extensions uh to be reviewed and it's pretty straightforward do you feel comfortable so I would recommend to the board point a motion to uh deny the extension requested by the owner of the property for the Captiva prior approval uh because it is unnecessary uh confusing and redundant and so is there such a motion I'd like to make a motion that we deny Captiva based on the way you framed it I'll second roll call roll call please Mary Dean bti yes Janette Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes Celeste Luciano yes Ernie reichstad yes Mike Sylvester yes chairman Ronde yes okay motion deny is passed y okay so with that we're down to the final section which is open to the public for matters that are not on the agenda and matters not relating to a hearing on an application for [Laughter] development Jenny derk's taing to Sparta thank you for discussing the minor site plan subcommittee minutes that was going to be one of my questions um one question that does refer to this evening but it's not relevant to the approval the um application Google drive files that accompany each application for FL Holdings previously had letters Kurt Morris's uh the fire department Mr Simmons letters um they're all missing and there's only one letter from Catherine uh that was her updated letter so wondering where they went and can you can they please be put back I don't think they're missing I think they're in a subfolder that's located at the top of the drive that's correct okay thank you for the clarification that would have been helpful for tonight um what is the status of updating the township maps anybody zoning map yes U that is just about completed we're checking the area where the uh PVC overlay zone is over by North Village just to make sure that's correct with everything that ended up and we should have that within the next month okay thank you thank you um there was a clarification I wanted to give you Ron and Bill from the business development meeting where it was um stated that the requirement that you just spoke about for um applicants to come in regardless um in the Ed Zone that was spoken about as a an artifact of the 2101 but in fact it was in the previous um I'm sorry was in in yeah it was in the previous um iteration of that zone so just to clarify that for you um what is the status of the Brownfield solar landfill closing project Jenny that's a uh that's like more of a council question that's a council question yeah I know there's a lot happening right now so um I think you've met with Jim Zep too about it I have met with Jim Zep because the um BPU denied the Brownfield application yeah I know there's some meetings and conversations happening but that was that happened in January and that was not made public so all right thank you thank you anybody else okay all right so with that let me uh thank everybody for staying a little bit later than we planned tonight we're gonna get we're going to pull this in to 10 o'clock but I just with the backlog I thought it was important to try to get to those two tonight so thanks for everyone including the public for staying with us so uh with that could I have a motion to adjourn you're on Ernie to adjourn second okay all in favor I okay this meeting is adjourned at30 thank you everybody thank you