special meeting of the sparta Township planning board on behalf of the members of the entire planning board and our professionals we like to thank everybody who's here in person as well as those who may be streaming this meeting either now or later or on YouTube this meeting is now called to order for the record this meeting is being held on June 26 2024 at the sparta Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is now 7:01 the live stream for this meeting may be viewed on YouTube at www.youtube.com Sparta Township s p t awp please note the adequate public notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act I ask everyone please stand and join our board and our professionals as we proudly begin this meeting with a pledge of allegiance a pledge of alance to the of the United States of America to the repblic it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and Justice okay thank you uh D could you call the role please yes sir Justin Canalis Ernie rad here Christine Dunbar Mike Sylvester Vice chairman bill enr here chairman Ronde here Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti here Joan Ferman here Janette Burke here Celeste Luciano Brian man all right thank you um before we start tonight's meeting I just want to take a moment to express our condolences for the loss of Tom Collins brother Christopher John Collins uh on behalf of the entire planning board and our professionals we'd like to send our condolences prayers and thoughts to the entire cins family I'd also like to thank Mr David Brady who is here tonight serving in capacity as our planning board attorney Mr Corey Stoner who is serving in the capacity of our planning board engineer and Mr Michael mreader who's serving in the capacity of our planning board uh planner so thank you all for for being here uh so with that uh we originally had three applications scheduled for our agenda tonight however I believe the two uh Lakeland provid Bank application 24- 717 and bever Corp application 24.7 are being carried to our future meeting okay great Mr chairman we should announce the date of those meetings and the time 17 uh they'll be Ju July 17th at uh 7 p.m. all right so that leaves us so tonight we're going to be hearing application 24- 714 JB jvp Ventures LLC for amended site plan and variance the site uh known as Pine col Plaza is located at 172 woodport road block 2015 lot 18 within the C1 zone so welcome to the folks representing jvp Ventures please feel free to come forward and introduce your yourselves good evening ladies and gentlemen Daniel Bor from the law of Askin and hooker representing the applicant jbp Ventures LLC here on their behalf this evening is Joe pasaka uh we also have Jason dun and U Matthew Smith t uh he's not here yet but but we can get uh we can get started um sit down do we want to swear in the witnesses or you want me just sure yall swear and Mr Dunn would you raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do and uh you've been in front of me before state your name spell your last name and provide an address my name is Jason Dunn do unn at 11 Lawrence Road Newton New Jersey all right um Mr P you want to come up here morning quickly just in case we need your testimony hello all would you raise your right hand please do you solemly or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes and just like Mr Dunn state your name spell your last name and provide an Joe pasaka p a SSA l a q UA 23 windir way and Sparta thank you okay ladies and gentlemen before we get started with Mr dun Mr badorf do you want to qualify him as an expert or if the board wants to wave the qualification because he's been in front of us before and we've accepted him we could do that whichever way Mr chairman I'm fine anybody have issue I think we're good thank you okay so right you're an expert my licenses in professional planning and Landscape architecture are good okay all right uh so uh the property We Are Tonight to discuss is commonly known as pine cone Plaza it's at 172 woodport road block 2015 lot 18 uh it's a 1.56 acre lot in the C1 commercial excuse me community and Commercial Zone uh and it is surrounded by three separate roads it's woodport Road Pine Cone PL Lane and Hunter Lane um we're before the board this evening by preliminary and final site plan approval uh with minor bulk variances um for the purpose of revitalization of the property I don't know if you've been passed it lately uh but it certainly needs this revitalization um and and essentially an upgrade it's not just to the the the building but it's also to the property um and the signage uh um specifically there are six units in the building but ultimately the goal is to make only five units in the building for five tenants um those five tenants include a nail salon a dry cleaner a women's fitness center um there is one tenant that we're working on right now it is an exterminator and the final tenant is on the second floor and it is an accountant we're going to be combining two of the units that exist in the property to create one larger unit for the the accountant his business is good um there are five variances of those five variances that we're going to be requesting this evening four of them are pre-existing non-conforming variances on the property and the fifth one is not and I'll go through all of them and then I'll open up uh to expert testimony so the first pre-existing non-conforming variance is a front yard setback uh 25 ft is required there's 24.2 existing and we're not changing in anything so it's going to remain 24.2 there's a pre-existing non-conforming maximum impervious coverage which is 40% required um currently it sits at 51.2% but we're actually going to be reducing the impervious coverage to 49% um there's a freestanding sign uh square footage requirement the requirement is only 12 feet um but currently there's a 40t square foot sign the new sign is proposed to be the exact same size um the current sign is a little shorter and fatter and the new sign will be a little taller and skinnier uh but ultimately it will still be 40 squ ft um the fourth variance we're requesting is parking parking is I'm sure a big issue um but this is a one of those give and take uh type deals if we increase the size of the parking lot then unfortunately we increase the size of impervious coverage if we decrease the size of the parking lot uh then uh well if we increase the size of the parking lot then we're increasing the impervious coverage so we're hoping to keep it exactly the same as a matter of fact because we're reducing the impervious coverage removing some of the asphalt uh and the final variance is sign coverage on the building this is a very unique variance uh that we're requesting and you'll see when our architect provides testimony why that is um it relates specifically to the height the length of the coverage of the wall where the sign is located so without further Ado I'll open up to Mr Dunn's testimony regarding the property um Mr Dunn d just for my notes the sign coverage on the building is that the new variance it's my understanding it's the new variance pre-existing okay yeah yeah the requirement is uh there's a square footage requirement of 5% only um there's a length requirement of 50% only and there's a height requirement of 10% only and what we're proposing is a 30% total square footage coverage we're proposing a length coverage of 67% and a height coverage of 46% okay could you also clarify U your your comment about the freestanding sign I believe you stated that the current was 40 square feet and the proposed is 40 square feet in your application it shows that the current is 24.4 and you're proposing 50 and I'm really glad that you asked about that so one of the things that I have tonight that I'm going to be presenting uh as as um as evidence is a revised version of the sign showing that it's 8T tall 5T wide do we have copies of of these not yet okay they I will present them when The Architects starts providing testimony about the signs I just haven't yet because I wanted to get this in as evidence first and then I'll introduce that I'm sorry would you mind clarifying the current sign size though I believe you said it was 40 which we understand is 24.4 uh so I I think that's because of the way the awning is uh if you look at the sign and I also have pictures of what the sign looks like the way that the sign sits there's like a roof on it and I don't think that was part of the initial uh measurements when they took those measurements that's why do you see well I'll show it to you yeah I'm not following but if you can get to that because I will absolutely current is either 40 or 24.4 understood okay thank you you got it okay thank you uh again Jason done with ttra Associates uh this is a subject of this application is 172 woodport Road um we're here to upgrade an existing developed site it's probably pretty well known to many of you on woodport road um and it has three fronts fronts uh Pine Cone Lane Hunter Lane and a woodport road with access from Hunter Lane and Pine Cone Lane uh to two separate parking areas uh separate but connected um my understanding is this used to be a drive-thru uh for a bank that's why you see the driveway um on the uh west side has a uh a an arc connecting um a lane next to the building and the parking area which is a few feet um an elevation above the first floor of the of the building um the owner wished to upgrade the building uh make it look better um add some roof material and maner roofs uh to to have it with a more modern look but I'll let the architect use his uh his language for that but so the building will be upgraded part of the um the access to the to the building will be changed slightly uh by adding access ramp um to a new entry and also uh exterior stairs so that the account on the second floor doesn't have to go through the inside of the first floor to get to his office or her office um so this is exhibit A1 right yeah uh and it's A1 because although it's been submitted to the board there has been some coloring added to it so we want to mark it as A1 let's mark it as a101 that's my pattern a 101 um and for the record Mr Dunn what's the title on that who prepared it what's the date of revisions etc etc sure uh this is a uh sheet one of two which was submitted to the board along with this application um it's titled PR preliminary final site plan Pine Plaza with the last revision date of March 7th 2024 um this shows existing and conditions existing conditions and proposed conditions and I know from your point of view it's just a wash of line work except for the coloration the um the building is outlined in in an orange or peach color the the existing condition on the left has some green on it and that green has been colored just to demonstrate to you uh what impervious is being removed as part of this proposal so it's part of that Arc driveway we talked about and part of the concrete and Pavement in the in the front of the building Mr D is that going to impact a vehicle's uh ability to Traverse uh that turn no it uh it does make the lane a little Nar more narrow but um a passenger vehicle and even even a box truck would not have a problem getting around that this is a A1 one point two no it's a two set feat so that's just a second page of a101 okay so the second page of um uh exhibit a101 is um title Pine con Plaza preliminary final site plan and same rision date but this is sheet two of two uh on the left side of the plan she it shows a storm storm drain connection and uh site Construction plan um on the right side it shows uh lighting proposed lighting and proposed Landscaping uh I've colorized portions of the landscape lighting plan uh so I can explain uh what the what the improvements are um so just to run down this list there's about 10 items uh we are reducing the pavement and adding new curb and uh new curb around the and and decreases radius of the curve here so that's outlined in purple um we're adding entrance ramp and walk on this part of the building the South South West part of the building and we're adding the exterior entry stairs as shown in purple here um on the also on the south side of the building um this small purple Square on the east side of the building I'm sorry west side of the building is um a spiral staircase to allow roof access for maintenance purposes so the public uh and the and the office employees won't be able to use that it's just for um for roof access also where the sign will be located correct um not sure all right we'll talk about that the AR um Mr Dunn there is a uh so the the the top left corner of that rendering uh you'll see a section of the property what is unique about that section of the property this here yes um this is in in right of way and there is existing light pole uh couple water valves and a an existing sign for I think it's a Tomahawk Lake Tomahawk Lake right okay so they don't actually own that piece of property correct no they don't and we're not we're not proposing any improvements or changes to that to that area I just want to make that clear good very good um the board engineer and his initial uh review letters had said uh where does a rooftop water going now and where will it be going so he recommended that we connect it underground and connect it to a storm water system we provided uh calculations showing the pipes were the appropriate sizes to connect into the street without having uh any impact um that's the extent of the drainage improvements there's no this is not a major project uh so there's no requirement for uh um compliance with the storm New Jersey storm water rules in in that respect um we're proposing to Mill and pave all the areas and restripe it um that wasn't in the initial approval but after we spoke with the owner hello um and he he said he had planned to do that all along so we would agree to do that as well um the the parking lot is fairly old I'd say this this site is probably 30 to 40 years old or more I I don't know um we are replacing light fixtures fixtures on the existing poles and providing two EV ready spaces and uh replacing the freestanding sign which we spoke about but we'll go more into and U adding some traffic signs as well like stop signs uh at the driveways um the green indicates uh added and added and existing uh Landscaping I know it's not a very pretty picture but it shows you about the massing of the plants around the parking area um and between the between the building and woodport and Pine Cone Lane it's it's pretty Barren of landscaping so uh we we thought it would be a good thing to help frame out the building and you know uh make to make the site look a lot better with the Landscapes like landscape plants so we are asking for a waiver for providing a loading space um because this the nature of these uses don't require a lot of pickup or deliveries so if there were something that needed to be delivered it would be uh very quick and there's a couple different opportunities for a a FedEx truck or something to stop deliver and then and then leave the site the parking areas uh accommodate 50 uh that's 50 50 um parking spaces with two Ada accessible and that's where the EV parking around the area the park a EV ready parking spaces would be one of them would be ad accessible Ada accessible one would be a a a standard parking space so by our calculations with the the gym area expansion uh we come up with 58 parking spaces required and uh we are providing again 50 physically but by the Numbers 52 because we get two credits for the EV ready spaces so we are asking for Relief on uh six parking spaces in this in this application um one of the one of the reasons that works is because of the the type of tenants we have uh we have a proposed exterminator um they do not have customers coming in and out we have um the nail salon which does have some customers come in um and stay for you know several probably about an hour or maybe even a little less uh we have the the uh women's fitness uh area or we're calling it the gym um that is that has uh several members uh who come in at different uh time slots and between those time slots uh there is uh span of about 20 minutes between when one one class ends and one uh one begins um the accountant rarely has anybody come to see him or her I don't know what it is um and if they do have a customer come it's usually one car for you know a few hours and they leave so my point is although we don't meet the standard of the ordinance it's my opinion this this is uh probably more than appropriate uh number of parking stalls uh and you know for the from the observance of the owner uh which he'll talk about uh he never had any parking issues here ever there's never overflow parking on the street or people waiting uh there's always been plentiful parking there is an existing front yard setback variance an existing non-conforming condition which we we are not um adding to this part of the building uh that that exists right here in the the northern Corner uh up against that RightWay it's just short of 25 ft um so the impervious cover is being reduced but U the The Zone calls for a maximum of 40% and we're asking for 49% um and looking for opportunities to reduce uh impervious besides what we've already done I find it uh very challenging because we need all the parking or we should keep all the parking that we have um you really having this uh be um a a way to circulate the parking and you know without cutting out this driveway I think that's that's important rather than having this be a deadend driveway where someone could come in if if the parking lot is full if it happens to be full they they could find a opportunity to turn around um as we said the site has been here for many many years um so we're not looking to change it all that terrifically just to upgrade it so I think that's that's appropriate any questions on what we're proposing on the site any of the landscape and design standards that are required by the uh Township engineer will be agreed to in me correct yes um prior to the previous meeting um I double checked the amount of landscaping I was we were proposing here uh it falls slightly short of the uh design standards for landscaping as far as the massing square foot areas it's like a percentage of the of the parking and the uh because this is res idential use across the street of Hunter Lane um we would need a 25t BM of planting which there is room to do so I would I didn't have time to create that for tonight but we would agree to um comply with those standards and have your engineer review it if you would consider that as a condition of any approval Mr D if you're okay relative to questions if it's okay I'd like to let you go through the presentation okay and because maybe you'll answer questions as you go on and then we we can kind of come back at the end if that's okay sure sure unless anybody else has anything that you want to ask that's good okay um I should point out the location of the sign that we're proposing to replace um it's at the northern part of the corner of the property um it doesn't deter any sight distance that we're aware of um and I think the um Dave Simmons agreed with that in his letter as well uh the trash removal is existing it's an existing concrete pad um along this driveway uh to the east of the building on on your way out to Hunter Lane it's uh it's got an existing septic system where uh we we are currently in discussions with the county susex county health department to make sure that that septic system is appropriate and adequate for this use um our calculations show that it is and as a as a condition of any approval we would you know offer that to the to the board professionals make sure we prove that uh the existing septic is is adequate um the water comes from Central water there is a fire hydrant along there it is Pine Cone Lane uh your engineer asked for an easement around that however I see that it's in a right of way so we would would have to we could agree to talk more about about the hydrant um I think also uh the utilities director agreed about an easement so if if if we can do an easement we would agree to do it I just don't know if if it's the right way if we we could do that um I think Mr Simmons letter also indicated something about a sight triangle at the uh intersection of pine cone and Hunters yes it says it should be added at the intersection of Pine Cone Lane and Hunter Lane so that would be this part of the property and I would we would agree to uh to add that as well when it comes to the Hydra David you know stand and Cory long from the water department they felt strongly to have some kind of ement that hydrant is outside the RightWay line of hunters laying according to your plan right it's on your one this part oh this one here yes oh okay I apologize I was looking at up here yes there is um there is a hydrant within the property um and we would certainly do an easement for that no you want to go through it up to you um I that's all I have for the presentation um by the Numbers we're reducing in previous by 1,700 square feet I don't think I said that I just told you the percentage by 1,700 uh with this landscape plan we're adding 10 trees and 42 shrubs and then there will be more uh to comply with the design standards um I mean that's about it nothing really major um there are some variances I will provide testimony but I think maybe we should hear from Matt about the signs because that's part of what I would give for Testimony I also want to pass out the pictures of what the property currently looks like I think that's important for this so I have a102 um these were photographs taken by myself on June 19th 2024 and uh I've only uh labeled the first one um but they're all the same thank you all right 101 102 103 okay and I'm also uh uh Joe if you want to come up here you might have more information about this uh this is a103 and this is uh the sign document um who prepared was it yeah this was done by Steve at sinorama and Ledgewood all right and it's dated June 19th 2024 thank thanks the on to ask questions till questions are we gonna ask questions before he goes yeah everybody well while Matt's getting set up uh I do wna I do want to let you know that I I do frequent this site because uh I work right up the street and I do go to the uh dry cleaner there and I have to be honest I've never been in there for more than two minutes whether I'm dropping off or picking up and there's only one woman that works in there and she remembers my name every time I have no idea how she does it uh so I just wanted to just put that on the record there so so if we could so now that Mr Dunn is is I believe finished with his testimony could we maybe ask questions relative to that testimony before we start he's he's not done with this testimony because he still has to provide testimony with respect to the variances um and the reason why we're waiting to do the variance testimony is because we have the architect who is going to provide testimony regarding the signs um and because the variances require the sign so that's why we're doing that but if if the chairman would like we have no objection to taking test uh questions if you like let me just offer I I I I think it'd be good if we wait but if anyone has any questions that you want to ask just to help keep clear going forward you know feel free I'm good otherwise we we'll wait till they finish with the uh the rest of the testimony okay thank you very much okay have these been changed since the last meet since they were submitted to the board these are new okay okay these are uh revised plans provided by our architect uh the latest date is 62424 and I have labeled them as a104 and these have not been provided to the board yet uh these were uh changed and I think Mr Samantha will dis discuss the changes that he's made what's the date on those Dan the most recent date is 62424 oh are we gonna are you going to hand those out to us so okay thank youer that that rendering or is that a different uh this is it just I added color to it you added color to it all right so that's going to be a 105 tit we got one sheet two sheets just thanful just so we're clear on the record then Mr borf a104 or revised architectural plans plus some sign calculations right because it's St that's correct yes Mr Brady yes I didn't see that at the top there I'm sorry I'll call it a signed chart for lack of a better prase yeah okay and what is a105 then you were talking about that Y a105 is the same thing with the sign calculations but this time it's got color okay all right um so yes as stated already um first we have to youn would you raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do okay state your name spell your last name and provide an address sure Matthew smatana s m t an 64 Sunset Lake Road Sparta New Jersey okay and uh can you say your qualifications for the record have you have you presented before this board yes on many occasions I've although planning board not as much but zoning certainly plenty shman do we want to accept him as an architect as long as he confirms his license is still good or would you like him to go through his uh his curriculum V so I apologize I was I was kind of looking at the drawings that just got handed out so um have you been in front of of us before not you if if you could if you just that year sure pleas uh yes so I've been uh practicing on my own private since uh 2000 licens in New Jersey um I've presented before probably 30 different boards um throughout Northern New Jersey and some in South Jersey but and uh it's my own private practice so where'd you go to school I went to school at Roger Williams univers well it's now University West Roger Williams College up in Rhode Island and you got your architecture degree there I have my degree and I did pass the exam I'm licensed in New Jersey still current still current yep okay I offer Mr saman as an expert in the area of architecture okay Mr Mr Stoner any okay Mr M okay we're good thank you accepted as an expert in architecture um so before you go into detail could you just please give an overview of what was changed from what we looked at this afternoon on our computers and to why we didn't get this maybe two days ago if you did it two days ago um so just like what the changes are I'm not sure exactly what you saw because I did email something but I don't know if it got sent out to everybody but um but what is different what what made you change and what is different so from the original submitt um that we did a few months ago basically uh this drawing is specifically just for signs um we did have a slight um error in the um area calculations of the building which I've updated on this drawing here which reflects you know slight discrepancy compared to the original drawing of about 30 square feet or something like that um so just to clarify those are square footages of each unit correct yes so we had a breakdown of the units here which has been added um there were some extraneous information that I took off of the original plans that were submitted that uh an area that had shown up that showed 10 square foot larger than what the actual was so this is basically clarifying all the area information on this drawing as well as uh all the sign related information for um any building mounted signs all right so does this now um conform to what Mr Simmons had in his report as far as square footage because I or maybe it was Harbor View was Harbor View sorry I know there was a discrepancy in the square footage so does this conform now uh I'm not 100% sure if I'm exactly where he was but I checked everything to make sure I was 100% where it is so um I have to check and see what is enough was exactly the one that will affect the parking I'm G I'm just going to double check so that work the one sign on your drawing here for for what was Dr clearer say a laundry that's that's a the statement I guess right it's place where drop off La still remain the same they called it a dry cleaner that's how that's how it was referenced I just named uh generic names the nail salon was 1340 uh the dry cleaner or laundromat um was 12 uh 12 50 right so that's actually 1240 correct that's one of the things that was changed extraneous that was sitting in the yep okay uh the gym um was being increased to 3542 uh yeah that I have is 3549 okay and there was one adjustment that I should point out basically um when we first submitted everything to the board um in between that period of time and when we uh did this drawing the tenant for the um exterminator came in we designed a layout for them they did not need the additional square footage that was behind this utility room here so that square footage has changed slightly um the gym square footage has changed slightly and we've factored in this utility space that is shared between all the different units for phone and electric and that's not part of the square footage calculation for either any of the units correct um so that is um correct cor yeah yes by all the units correct yeah you want to just show the board you want to just go through each one of the units so that they can see it there on the plan sure yes and and go through the square footage as well yeah so woodport road is along the top of the drawing Pine Lane and then Hunters Lane at the bottom so on the woodport road side is the nail salon blue how many square feet is that that's 1,340 dry cleaner is in the corner between uh pine cone and woodport that's 1,240 square feet the gym in the current situation is now combining one of the units that we had originally shown as an additional tenant as well as the corner space facing the parking lot and Hunter's Lane and than the existing gym right now so the combined of all of those minus the utility room is 3,549 square feet excuse me 300 3,5 49 49 and again so that's the the Box on the left hand side is the gym uh so the existing gym is on the left here yeah this is going to be the expansion of the gym these other two so everything in Orange it's not going to become part of the gym okay when you say expans expion though just so we're clearing the record the building itself is not expanding it's the interior layout that's changing correct correct there are no additional Square footages added to any of the Interior just to clarify I thought I saw in the application or some of our professional reports that the square footage of the total space was increasing uh not sure if it was 100 square fet or some number that they I know n you say that Dean I think I saw 100 chip I think cuz they're taking that's what Mr Simmons report indicates 100 foot addition somewhere yeah there is no uh interior addition there are additional porch space along this corner here and these two on this side here are both covered entryways um they're all external what about the spiral staircase could that have been the additional calculation or um I mean that was again that's all exterior space there is no roof over it so it's basically uh walls well you took out the corridor so that what's that you took out the corridor we did take out the corridor so the usable space for the tenants has the numbers so is that the 102 that they're referencing uh it's probably a little bit more than that but um I try to estimate it what about the uh the covered you have the covered porch on the back and you got the covered patio are those those added for the building building cover would you Mindy if you could use the mic thank you the building coverage uh those the two were going to have um roofs over top and correct right so you have uh the two face in the parking lot side those are external space but they are covered entries basically good I'm not quite sure what they was referring to the 100 square feet I see that you got the uh this the stairwell in the in the front but that's exterior you do have covered patios on the uh the right side and cover your walkway in the front but they don't add up to 100 so I'm not quite sure um doesn't look like it a building addition but you have some overhang additions correct uh yes so the existing overhangs in several cases where I show columns now um are we are basically aligning with those existing overhangs but we are adding this one overhang here to match up with a similar look around that corner base all right and then uh let's talk about the second floor what do you have there in the corner so so on the second floor we have uh I mean the footprint of that space is basically stay the same we just reoriented it and added a bathroom internally to that space but um that is 941 square feet total and that has its own covered entry on the exterior and what about the Exterminator space so the Exterminator space square footage now is uh 9 55 I believe that is and where is he going to go exterminator the Exterminator is the green right here okay sorry what was the Exterminator again 955 955 and What's the total all the Interior Space it is uh 3080 so did you did you rerun the calculations for the parking requirements because this now throws things off because the the gym not sure if you included this the gym is one per one space per 100 and the gy it seemed like expanded from 2625 to 3 549 that's a significant increase in the gym and that's a one per 100 ratio no um I mean I can it was 3 one uh but uh we can have um Jay if you want to talk about it you can how we did the calculation yeah but that's when um this is going to change significantly when I was given the changes to the building areas I did recalculate the parking that's why I came up with 58 as opposed to um I think the planner had come up with uh 54 right um by the gym expanding it at that at that one per 100 Factor it did increase the the required parking so that that is up to date are are the site plan drawings going to get updated to reflect that have they been and do we have copies of that update uh we did not update the uh site plan itself to to reflect that no but we can do that as a condition that would have to be a condition of any approval by the board that the parking calculations on she1 are updated okay according it's a condition Cory so I can the the parking calculations on she1 do not reflect the it excuse me be revised yes they do not they don't cover the items that Jason had just comment about the 58 required parking spaces they they still stayed I think 41 right because we had used um a one per two 200 Factor uh for the uh the physical fitness space um for our own reasons but I we're going with the conservative count of as per your planner um and even speaking with Dave Simmons in in his letter he he agreed with our count but um upon further discussion he said we should use a one per 100 I mean typically again just to give people a chance to look at it we'd get that update before we come in here so we could look at the calculation and make sure we agree like for instance the one we got on the original plan we had concerns with so my concern is that we're going to get it after the fact and some may say well wait a minute that's you know we we don't agree with that how do how do we um we did provide this to the professionals and to Dory uh I think last week so well you know what Mr chairman there'll be if if they get approval tonight there'll be a lag obviously before the resolution is put together and if it comes in during that time frame and everything is uh copesthetic to use a legal term uh then there's no problem there's a problem then before adopting the resolution the board would have a chance to address so have have you seen the revised calculation and are you good with it I'm okay with it okay thank you thank you chairman thank you when I say I'm okay with I'm okay with them based on the new plans that you have in front of front of4 the calculations are you um they're provider based on that a104 which don't match the architectural drawings we had before correct because like for instance you talk about the you know the um exterminator you know spot at 955 ft that's tenant number two which the old architectur was 17 yeah not a large difference but there are difference right there is a difference yeah so any anything they're talking they're talking about areas there are slight modifications on the plan that they have up on the board right now that's what the calculations should reflect but the usage change so now based on the 3549 um for the fitness center that's going to require 10 Extra Spaces instead of 26 it'll be be 36 um so if you're okay with the numbers what what is now the parking requirement so I yeah so I can go I can and then Mr Dunn can just confirm it it's my understanding that the parking is seven spaces for the nail salon 6.2 spaces for the uh dry cleaner um there's 35 spaces for the women's fitness center uh there's five spaces for the Exterminator and there's 4.7 spaces for the accountant is is is that correct Mr um based on your calculation or do you have a difference with what you just said it's going to come out to the same 58 spaces but I I actually did the division to a one decimal point so the physical fitness for instance at 3549 would require 35.5 which actually see doesn't it's not given a half a space but when you're talking about the total that that's how we added it up M if if you can one more time just go slow so I can write down the number okay no problem calling your packet Ron it's there the new numbers are not in packet email the email is a atted to your packet and everything Jason had provided to us where Okay can someone show me where that is right under the agenda so I'm reading from this evening I'm reading from an email dated uh today uh to Mr Stoner because we found out that uh he would be sitting here tonight everybody else have it or am I am I the only one it's an email it looks like this everybody has it it was out here tonight on a day yes it was on the so we brought our we brought our ouris and that's what we're looking at yeah and all the updated plans that we did receive from Jason are all in the Google drive file as well looked at that okay thank you we'll continue to work through it so that we have all the correct numbers [Music] before guarantee that we don't want to be short would would you let me read through the no I I can see them here thank you yeah oh they brought an extra chair in for you so maybe that the only one Dory did we both get one because remember you brought an extra chair in I don't know if I have that no everybody got a copy of it all right let me suggest that we just take a few minutes here I can find the packets that we're looking for so as we go through this we'll have in front of is what we need so can we just take five minutes and can get a you said here thank you everything this is mine cuz I highlight no I don't have it no but yes yes what we received from Jason in an email everything is on the dress with the exception of the exhibits the A1 the A2 which are here right now no everything is on there you can't remove anything you have to keep all those we found the extra one here okay I found what we're looking for long as I'm looking at the last modified it's fine okay does everybody have we found it okay is everybody good to go anybody not good to go right we good to go okay got it you have it J just to be clear why don't you read the numbers into the record in accordance with that email sure so that we're all up to date okay um the gym square footage the physical fitness area square footage is 3549 3549 which equates to 35.5 spaces at a factor of 1 per 100 uh the balance of the uses um have a one per 200 Factor the Exterminator is 955 Square ft at 4.8 spaces the dry cleaner is 1,240 square ft at 6.2 spaces the nail salon is 1,340 Ft at 6.7 spaces the utility room at 55 square feet uh is not assigned any parking spaces and the accountant is 941 Square ft uh 4.7 spaces for a total of 58 required thank you go ahead um yeah so you were talking about the 100 squ foot discrepancy I think it may be close to resolved with the the area that we had calculated for the accountant in our chart um up here we had originally shown that as uh 861 square feet but if you added up the two areas it was actually 941 square feet so that is 80 square foot difference gets Us close to that 100 but that's what I would estimate is probably where the discrepancy was all right you want to go through the design sure has this been provided to the board h no this is not okay while I'm labeling this as a16 why don't you start talking about what this is of a picture of and when who created it and what the date was uh you mark the other one as a107 too while we're at it and public can you see that okay and then the witness can describe them both before he starts talking so he can go back and forth for what's a106 so a106 is the view from uh the parking lot that is alongside Hunters Avenue Hunter I should say and the parking lot side um currently uh basically what we're proposing as far as the whole project goes the whole scope of the work um was primarily to give the building a facelift um it's kind of out ated um as you approach the building from woodport Road basically looking at all the air conditioning units on top of the roof um uh just updating materials updating to give it more of a scale that's appropriate for a residential area that that it abuts so uh instead of putting tall or parapet walls that are flat and um you know maybe not so dimensional um we basically provided slope through roof uh parit around the entire perimeter that will block off a view of all the air conditioning units um and then where these certain accent pieces are along around the perimeter of the building where there's some triangular projections that are existing right now we're basically just projecting them to be more of a tower Tower type element um material wise um we we have some samples here that we can show you but uh basically it's going to be a combination of Stucco um a thin brick veneer um asphalt shingles and then H powder coated aluminum columns trim window trim uh doors frames as well as uh these uh uh louvers up on up on the roof um show you this one a little bit more so this is the view now from that's a 107 so a 107 is the view more from uh woodport road side and uh looking over at the uh Pine Cone Lane side as well again material wise everything is going to match up with what's happening on the other two sides um we're proposing a tower element at the corner here to one you know buffer the access that we need to get up onto the roof um as well as kind of to be a nice marker for the building the complex um so that uh as you approach on woodport road driving back and forth you'll you'll kind of see this marker that you know designates it as a you know shopping plaza um again using similar materials similar uh scale to uh what we're doing all around the the rest of the building um but giving it a little more interest as you uh as you pass on woodport road um on that Tower element we're proposing to put a sign that is the one variance that we were talking about that's the new variants basically just to designate the plaza um as Pine con Plaza um being that it's on Pine Cone Lane and uh internal to this is is basically a spiral stair which would have gated access so that only those professionals that need access to the roof would have access to it um and then just you know some small landscaping around the perimeter basically to uh you know provide a nice aesthetic on the exterior um all of these e lines that you see right now except for this one here were existing overhangs we're basically just adding columns along the facade so that um gives it more grounding appearance um and kind of in heel of a porch basically turn rain storm I think these say more than what my drawings will say but uh basically uh pine cone Plaza uh sign there is that an accurate representation of what the sign is to look like or is it this uh pine cone Plaza sign that's on a104 uh I mean this is as close as we've gotten we haven't actually worked it completely out with a sign company but it's uh that's you want to go over the measurements of that sign sure so the sign drawing we have everything has been scaled basically proportion to what you see on the rendering there's one difference is that the sign would actually be on this side not that side but um I realized that after the fact um the uh height of it is 8 foot five the width of the actual sign part is uh 4 foot4 and um it's you know several feet off the ground basically so it can be more visible from uh the road um the remaining signs here this one has been eliminated here for now um this one's been eliminated and we on this drawing reflect more accurately the actual size of those signs to meet the code and that's on a104 correct correct yes so that's all been calculated out based on a104 so the only the only there's two sign requirements excuse me if you in mind using the mics it's actually hard to hear with the rain believe it or not I'm sorry so uh just to be clear the signs on the sides of the building will not require variances correct correct okay and they're depicted accurately on a104 correct okay uh but there is a variance requirement for the pine cone sign on the side of the tower is that correct that's correct and that Varian is based on percentages so it's based on percentage of height percentage of width and percentage of wall area so everything is um calculated based on this wall by itself because that's how the ordinance has been interpreted so is your testimony then that if you didn't have a uh facade design that was articulated the way it was that you'd have a different calculation and might not need a variance it's kind of a function of the way the math works because you have a you have walls that begin an end instead of one monolith right right yes no that's definitely true I mean if this was a taller wall um it would allow you the much larger sign basically so instead of doing a parit if I had done a parit wall it would have allowed you a larger sign but this kind of and are all those signs lit uh they're back lit I believe see n yeah there now none of them were lit I thought the uh internally lit is that what you mean exterior okay you know what I'm I'm sorry could you come up and talk to right because we can't hear so there won't be a signs them that sign them itself won't be back lit as in I mean there's there's two different ways to do signs you have the backlit signs that have the light that come directly out from the letters or with the design or you have lights that are either pointing down or up at those lights that was the plan was to do that which one the second from the top or from the bottom from from the bottom or the top there really isn't like a design yet but most likely probably from the bottom going up so they're indirectly lit correct not talking about the freestanding sign that's all the signs on the building the ones above the Pine sign corre correct so I mean there's some signs in town that have backlit approvals like on main street where the post office is when the gym was there previously that was back lit but when I moved the gym there about two years ago we did not do it was approved for a backlit sign we just never added it back to it but I but yeah we're not going for backlit sign approvals the pine cone sign the idea would be lit from the ground up when you say the pine cone sign you meaning the one on the tower yes sir okay so that'll be round lit up all the other ones are going to have some kind of scones or something they going to shine down on them correct because the overhangs allow some sort of scones or some sort of light projecting upward down do we do we have a closeup we haven't received the design for that Tower image correct this is the first time we're seeing this on correct from a distance yeah we haven't done any that we haven't done a design on that yet on this sign itself okay while we're talking about lights what about lights for the freestanding sign those will be ground lights ground lights correct yeah is that different than what the initial proposal was on the on the You' been on the I thought when I read said that these the freestanding sign was internally lit and I thought the building signs were inter there's power that's run to it but right now it's all ground lit power there's nothing behind it so if you were to drive by tonight it would be it would be ground lit and that's replaced by this correct so there's still power out there so we would still do ground lit signs okay the I am confused was the one he just handed to us says intern internally illuminated that one says internally illuminated yeah yeah we're not going to do internally illuminated lights but there's he may have done that because there's power run out there so I could do that technically but I'm basically replacing the sign making a little bit smaller with that that's that's the request on this and then we're going to continue with the ground lighting to the sign just note that you say you could do that you'd have to do that with the barrance correct yeah and this depiction is not the accurate depiction of what this free-standing sign will be no no this is not that sign not not the scale either right because the sign that you handed to us is 2 feet off the ground and goes up another 8T so it's 10t high that's clearly not a 10 foot to the top of that sign no no no the free standing in the corner there to the left no that is not an accurate representation of this okay so that you're proposing is going to be a 8ot high sign lifted up 2 fet going to be 10t to the top from I believe is that what the measurements are on there they are yeah that's what the measurements are there so a total of 40 sare ft plus the top part here the on the post piece correct yeah so how uh it doesn't State how much higher this is so it goes up to the top of the sign but then the cones the pine cones go up a little higher and there's nothing here to indicate how high they they go what I I gave them my drawing this is really 64 yeah yeah when you include the post it would be 64 going across so this has a full measurement with the measurements on this I don't know if we're looking at the same thing of 8 ft High all the way to the top of the cone piece that you're that you're talking about right and then how much from the cone to the top of the cone that's the top measurement so that measures all the way to 8 ft I think our that's what I'm reading here right is that is that 8 inch no that's going across so it's 6.4 going across times however High it is Sate to AES typically don't include the post in your sign calculations Just A Sign itself I'm I'm just probably reading this incorrectly I can estimate we can we can stipulate to a number if the board would like the board has an idea of how big they'd like the pine cone to be stipulate to that side this is like the cedar shakes again we're concerned about the sign size in the pine I understand the the sign itself without the post will be 40 square feet uh that's what we're proposing and that's the variance we're requesting um but we will stipulate to the size of the cones at the Top If the board would like us to do that we're we're more than welcome to do that okay so is this a good time now I think maybe to reconcile the existing sign size because all of our reports that you submitted it was 24.4 so we have to get to a fact on that is the current sign 24.4 or is it 40 I didn't take the measurements of the current sign I took those measurements okay so the the measurements of the sign themselves actually you know what why don't we use so you can have it in front of you a102 Mr badorf May if you hand that um to the witness as he talks he can point out what he's talking about and a102 has a picture this but if we're including the roof then they have to include the PES right so I took manual measurements of the existing sign this was here when I bought the property so the actual design has been there it's looks like it's been there a long time um the actual measurements are 47 in wide okay and that is again this is not including the overhang at this point I'm just talking about the width of the actual signage um from the bottom to the underneath section of the roof that sits there is 80 inch high how many 80 in okay so that would be from the ground to the underside of the roof and then the approximate measurement to the peak of the roof is approximately 30 to 32 in above that what is the distance you mentioned the uh 80 in from the ground to the top of the sign exclude the space right we're not counting the space between the ground and the bottom of the sign so what is the the vertical length of the sign excluding the open space yeah so I think what Mr B is asking is where it says Steven Frolic CPA got if you put your tape measure on the bottom of that and measure it up to I don't know whatever it say the actual what would that so they they're about 12 Ines in height so one two so we'll go two four approximately 5 feet okay well you said it was 80 so if you took 12 inches off it would be 68 correct so like the my point was I measured what the the full height of it was on the structure itself but the actual signage itself is is approximately 5et in height how did you come to the calculation of 40 square feet exactly the 40 square foot was the 47 in wide to the 80 in okay I didn't even add that in there did I you didn't even add the awning the actual awning itself was additional space am is that right can add the awning you you didn't add the awning but you did add the open spot the part out from here to here 68 okay so Cory you're the engineer here I don't think we used the awning as part of the calculation isn't that like the posts normally it's just a post however this is like an architectural element to to this one so I you could you know the board could consider that existing being the top of that roof on this one because normally you just look at the sign itself but that's a pretty big roof on top of this I think I'd actually measure to the top of the roof on this one the other one there you're talking the little Pine toes on the top that's decorative to me that's a decorative element right so I think that the witness said the roof is about 32 in high about 32 in high and it's it's a little bit wider than 80 in across from uh little wider than how many about 80 in okay but the height to the bottom of the sign the roof was 80 inches you said from from if you were if you were to measure from the ground to the bottom of the awning it's 80 in and then across it's about 47 no that's that's just the post themselves so so the edge of the sign so like if you're looking at wide okay yeah it's about 80 in wide from the awning from the top sign is about a foot off the ground correct okay there's a bunch of calculations to be I think I'm confused here I'm sorry sorry there's a lot of so so when I measured this I measured from the ground yes to the bottom of the awning which is 80 inches in height that's 80 inches correct the width is 47 across and then if you measure just the height of the awning it's about 30 32 in high and it's about 80 in across okay okay all right I think you make an argument you got 47 in I don't know if I'd worry about the top how wide the top is I'd probably take the 47 in and the 80 in plus the 32 they get a total height this is this is the sign's a little weird um little little different here so you take 112 in time 47 I think maybe 36 square feet I think maybe we also take one foot or 12 in off from the bottom since that's open so I'm coming up with 47 in times 100 in that's 32.6 so about 33 Square fet that's the current sign yes that's if you go from the bottom you know the bottom little placard sign to the top of the uh the roof what was it Cory 30 33 33 33 square feet okay I me I think even though we went through this exercise I think the bottom line is that doesn't matter we have to decide if the ordinance says 12 feet and you're proposing 40 right that's what it's going to come down to and if you just look at to the degree that they may have a pre-existing noncon right to continue this pre-existing non-conforming use but they're not continuing it per se they're increasing it so that's why it's relevant because the Delta becomes particularly relevant yeah but that's not really um part of the sign that's like you said the pine cones but if you just take the sign which is 68 in or 5.6 feet times the 47 in wide say 2 feet that gives you 11.2 feet where's oh 4 feet that's what I did wrong okay what's the size of the grass area 22 standing sign is located the size of it it's probably the largest field I would say that you're probably from the road to the sidewalk where the nail salon is I'd say You have about approximately 100 feet and how wide um from the parking lot down to from like the road to the nail salon from like from woodport to the nail salon okay woodport to the nail salon that section is probably double the length it's probably about 200t it's pretty large grass area and that's the area that the sign is going in so 100 by 200 correct yeah roughly pretty large area right how far off the road is the sign it's on you want to provide the testimony J the sign is 13.1 ft from the right of way of woodport Road um however there's about a foot to the curb so approximately 14 feet how close did you say to the curve Mr D uh 14 feet oh 14 okay and is there a required setback and if so what is it excuse me is there a required setback or a sign I I believe it's 10 ft from the right of way okay instead of instead of turning this into something more than it needs to be I've just spoken with my client my client agrees to make the new sign exactly the same size as the old sign without the awning so whatever that I think that makes this really easy if the board agrees but we would still like to add the pine cones if that's okay in numbers what are we agreeing to then if you what are you proposing in Numbers 22 square feet no I think that we came up with 33 square feet is what what it is they should they should provide an as they should provide an as built or drawing on your plans so that I see now that was a a misstep on my part and I apologize for that we should have had exactly what it is uh but uh I could have the my sign company provide an updated version of exactly templated to what it is minus the awning section I mean I think it's important to have a larger sign than what's allowed I I like that he's replacing it in kind that makes a lot of easier on us um but even for 40 squ ft I believe would have been appropriate uh because you have multiple tenants here and your see1 Zone um it may not have contemplated that condition um 12 square feet sounds more to me like a one tenant sign for one building on on one lot that's that's why that was what I was prepared to say for the relief but uh that's that's one of the reasons I think keep think extic sign is is important just so my notes are are right then the stipulation is that the new sign follow the same basic uh what do I want to call it same basic Aesthetics um will be the same size as the current sign area not including the roof or incl including the roof not including the roof okay and will keep it the same width and height correct okay and again just just so we're clear make sure is that I thought I saw that this was internally lit what you're saying is this will be lit from the ground not internally lit okay thank you so the dimensions may may change some because right now it's 5 feet by8 feet so you're going to either make it a little shorter or a little or both okay oh Mr SM did you have any other testimony before you leave the sign can I can I ask a question here just so I could set these numbers here a little bit according to the code for permitted signs in the C1 Zone it say maximum height of any permitted free standing signs shall not exceed 8 ft and such sign shall be at least 5T from any propul line so we're going to exceed 8T the total height of this sign correct that's not the sign itself it's a total height to the top of the sign no it's it's it's it's conforming with the old sign okay so you're going get a variance up to the roof I know but you're going to get a variance for the sign for exceeding the 8ot maximum height M and and the area requirement because you're over 12 sare ft the area requirement but but we're going to stay at 8T we're not going to exceed 8T we're that's what we're saying because we're not going to have the roof okay so that's 72 in 72 in yes your sign today says 8 ft plus 2 foot off is the first placard on the bottom that's 10 ft so that's 120 does okay all right then 8 feet Yes the top top so we're g to meet the 8 feet requirement we do 72 inches is only six feet so in other words you won't you won't go wider than four feet basically if you're the existing sign's just under fouret but the question is about 8 feet yeah because I see the way I see it is you got four foot sign four foot width mhm 8ot Max you're going to have at least a foot off the ground right you know for that that first sign that leaves with um a 4x7 sign that's is that sufficient I think the current sign he said was basically four by 80 in minus 12 in right right like six I mean we're going to keep a gap on the bottom of the sign as well right but that Gap that Gap counts to the top the height okay you got two things going you got an area and you got a height requirement going on so that that Gap in the bottom plus whatever your sign is can't be over eight feet and you're not counting the pine cones can be higher doesn't make much I'm not including the pine cones but I was joking about the pine cones we don't need the pine cones you're normally deal with a freestanding sign it's going without pine cones but it's you know some kind of like you know the different type of sign this one's unique has a little decorative thing I I my recommendation is forget about this the pine cones go to the main sign current sign that's it yeah we're just going to stipulate that it's going to be within the confines of the current sign so the pre-existing non-conforming sign that exists there now it's going it's going to be identical minus the roof okay nothing is going to change except the roof is coming off okay correct Mr Paka yes okay so that existing sign is 47 in by 80 ft to the bottom of that roof correct we're going we're going to get new measurements of the sign the exact measurements of the sign and it's going to comply with that sign what's currently there we believe the sign to be 80 in tall right to the bottom of the the roof and we believe the sign to be 47 in wide so it's going to comply with 80 by 47 in accordance with the current sign the 80 though includes the space underneath the last sign includes the space underneath yes so the is 68 the sign is 68 that's correct so we'll get an updated drawing to reflect that yes yes I think the total for 8 feet is 96 in right okay just want to make sure that we're clear on well you're going for that that's not what you just said no no no I I I understand that so you're saying you want the you want the 8T okay so we're going to have to provide new drawings for the side I know but you got to leave here with what a number no look why don't I talk to my client and we'll come up with the exact numbers and then I'll come back in and provide them to the board because I don't want to keep going back and forth because I feel like we're getting confused and I don't want this to come out of whack so I will come back in here with exactly what the numbers will be so if can I have five minutes with my client to just confirm the exact size of the sign that we're looking for can I just try something just make sure I want to make sure I'm heing so what I thought I heard was there's a sign that exists today and that sign has a roof on it yes so if I take that roof off and look at the rest of the sign the new sign will be that size correct which is no no that is not that is not the case that's why I want to go out and talk to my client that's what I thought that's what we all yeah know and that's why I want to go out and talk to him because I think we're getting confused with 8 Ines and 8T right that's the confusion okay I I I I heard different that's why I just wanted to make sure just for clarity e e e e e e e e communication um so what we're proposing this evening is going to be an 8ot high sign uh and of that 8ot high sign six feet of it is going to actually be signage and 2 feet is not going to be signage it's going to be the bottom of the sign so it's going to be 2 feet to the bottom of the signage and then another six feet with the signage and we will make it fit within those confines so that's 32 square ft total 24 Square ft of signage so we are above the uh requirement by 12 square ft Dan could you just say the width of that sign is going to be again four feet so it's going to be 8 foot Max 8 foot Max two foot on on the bottom and then six feet what's your square footage the square footage for the total sign is 32 24 okay I didn't I didn't hear that right then okay no no no I was I was saying 32 for the total sign if you included the bottom and I was just explaining everything yeah okay thank you but it's 24 square feet up signage so it's it's 12 additional square feet over the variance for the variance but 11 square feet shorter than what Mr Stoner kind of CC I didn't want to go back to what what what's what was there I just on you might want that on the record yeah yeah so that's the proposal do you have anything else Mr samanta no up to you quick testimony on the sign basically it's going to be a black border down with black letters and a white background and I believe that covers my testimony for now and that's the tower sign you're talking about that's the building mounted sign actually okay okay and those again will be indirectly lit have an overhang so we could down light from the overhang and the tower light um the tower sign is is that included in your calculations anywhere the pine con that's in the calculation sheet on the the last item and that was a variant and that will require a variance correct that's the variance on percentage of sa facade or percentage of wall or something like that yes right percentage of Wall height percentage of wall width and percentage of area of wall and you don't have a design finalized yet but it's going to stay within the proposed parameters that yes correct and the same colors of the building nothing going be crazy right exactly and uh similar coloring and all that to the sign that we show here are you proposing to bring that back to us with the final design right sure absolutely that' be a condition of approval you want the condition that they bring the sign back to the board I already spoke with my client about it he was fine with that because we don't have a final rendering for for you to see so he was okay with bringing it back so it'll be a final design for the freestanding and for the identification sign Pine Cone Plaza what prior to memorialization yes right okay yep David when they come back to the board what is that H when they come back to the board what is that for agenda that's not going to be a site plan modification it's claric because what the way I'll the way I've done it elsewhere when it's a small thing like we've all agreed on the size of the Signum we know the basic based on this and what's been submitted we know basically what it's going to look like we're just doing details what I will do is if if we approved it tonight between now and the memorialization time they'll get the design in we'll see it at the meeting and I'll just word process it right into the resolution assuming everybody's going to like it if somebody doesn't then we'll uh carry everything until the meeting after as we go over details else but if you get it in quickly we just kind of work it out as a practicality between now and the next meeting at the date of the memorial memorialization of the resolution right so it's not separate no because I didn't know how to put it how put on the agenda with this resolution was something big we' do it a different way but this is details on a sign we're going to go with more questions now or um I think um Jay's going to finish up on the testimony with respect to the variances chairman Dare I ask uh did you have some questions on the site before I go on no I I'd like to hold on let you go ahead and then we okay thank you um as we've heard tonight there are a few uh new variances with this uh proposal um one is the parking and the second is the pine cone Plaza sign and now uh we possibly have a third I think because we're changing uh the freestanding sign uh we're keeping this square foot area but we are in fact changing it so we'll ask for Relief uh for that 12 square feet um over what's allowed in the zone um I I testified before the reasons for the sign uh to to be that large is to accommodate multiple tenants and easy identification uh from the roadways uh in addition to the wall mount signs I think it's important to have a free standing sign that's easily recognizable um uh the same testimony goes for uh the pinecomb plaza identification sign a site identification uh of a building that's been known as pine cone Plaza for many many years is important to newcomers too um for uh the address of the place uh but also uh for safety reasons from the roadway to say uh you know you see the symbol you see the the lettering that's Pine Plaza Plaza no doubt about it it um when we met out in the hall to discuss the sign the freestanding sign size and height um it became apparent uh from from the owner that the sign there today uh is actually too short and the reason it's too short is because the bottom row placards uh can't can't be seen from a car coming uh down the hill toward the intersection of of Pine Cone Lane uh and woodport Road uh so that's why we're asking asking it to raise it to the maximum allowed uh 8 ft um the parking variance uh is is it's a variance for six spaces um we've provided testimony or I have that uh this is a uh multi-use Plaza uh with uses that are are low low traffic generators low impact uh for parking need and um it's just it's a good it's a good mix of of uses that doesn't require a high demand of parking I don't know if we ever got on the testimony the number of attendance to the uh uh to the physical fitness is uh approximately 10 to 12 uh that may grow slightly because of the area change but uh it may not the the class numbers may stay just the same um it's just that they're they're different uh they're adding different stations so to speak or areas for exercising um this at least for now um and historically has been a women's only uh physical fitness center I think that's that's an important need in the community uh for folks um for some folks to to have it uh away from U their male C counterparts I guess uh so I think that's that's a good thing um the uses are are permitted in the zone obviously or we wouldn't be here tonight uh this to me is is a is a is a a wonderful upgrade to this this corner uh this corner that many many people see um I think it's I think it's great that the owner is willing to put this kind of investment in it in into your town to improve uh you know his business but I think it benefits everybody um any of the the negative uh perceived negative detriments are farly outweighed by by any positive of this of this project um therefore I I I don't think that there is any significant impact to your Zone plan uh or to the neighborhood um I I think this is a a very approvable site plan if you will if there's specific questions about the choices we've made I'd be willing to take that okay okay so is any other testimony we giving tonight that's all I have with that there reports we probably need to address yeah okay so with that let's open up to professionals and you can maybe run through the reports and make sure all your questions are answered any concerns so Mike I I just have some just you're speaking to the variances do you want to touch upon the loading space and also touch upon I know you did it earlier but I don't know if that was testimony on a site plan now you're pivoting to the testimony on a variances speak to the loading zone loading space and to the um perious coverage yes um so we are asking for uh design exception from providing a loading zone um it was what I testified to lat earlier was that um a spe specified loading zone doesn't exist today um and we wouldn't want to take up any space or ad pavement for that because we feel that there is not a need for that um based on the historic uses of this there's no uh loading unloading that happens frequently here you know besides the uh Daily Mail or uh uh the occasional package for office supplies or something um the uh the impervious cover I think is Justified because it has been an existing condition uh for all these years and we are reducing it of course not quite to the uh to the 40% Max but we are reducing it by 1,700 feet and we are adding landscape areas that don't exist today um to help mitigate that uh that overage uh in order to reach that 40 40% we would have to start uh taking away parking spaces I believe would be the the only way to achieve that um the the building exists you know this is a lawful structure um so I think that uh there's there's a CC1 uh variance on on the impervious cover as well uh because we need the parking and the building exists and the site exists uh but you know the C2 uh the C2 testimony applies to the impervious as well the benefits uh to the community outweigh any detriment of the impervious cover and that request is for 49% um let me make sure I got the number right in my head I believe that just y I'm still thinking about 80 inches yeah yes uh we we we have if it's Germain we have the uh existing at 51.5% and uh the the proposed to be 49% it's actually it's actually bringing closer to compliance oh yes yeah and your testimony before my last question was I think you covered it already in your site plan testimony but there are are there any reasonable efforts additional areas where we could remove some impervious coverage on his site um I I looked at that uh in a very serious way and the only the only place we could consider uh or I did consider was that that circular drive that connects uh the top parking area to the Lane uh next to the building uh however my opinion and the opinion of the engineer was that it's important to get the circulation all the way around without having to have cars turn around and backing out of that parking area Mr chairman I have no further questions okay yeah I got a I got a a few items um so the impervious coverage you know they did decrease the impervious coverage I was just talking about um I you know the area that is reduced asphalt around the um you know going from the upper lot to the lower lot is probably the the one of the few locations that they could remove um I probably do agree that you know that is about the only location if you're going to try to keep the number of parking spaces to remove it a more uh lower it a more they would be reducing parking spaces which they're already going for a very so I think that make the situation worse and that that corner that the Govern is is quite wide I was kind of interesting why it's that wide but you're going to make that oneway traffic though with this new configuration oh yes that's correct I I think we had signage on that indicating that but if we don't we will there is signage on the plan so yes you can go from the upper parking lot down to the lower parking lot but you can't go the other direction so I think that I think that works toward the red reduction in the width of that driveway because you only have one one way directional traffic um the uh you talked about the the the sight triangle eement with you know at Hunters at the corner of Hunter um Hunter Lane and Pine Cone Lane you agreed that could be a condition yes um and the extent of that to me at least sitting here is is not known but that may impact uh some of the Landscaping we we uh we agreed to add uh in that space I believe it's wise and it would help that corner you shouldn't have any landscape in that corner anyways and if do have to be a low lower lower style landscaping Less Than 3 foot in height yeah we would certainly agree to that yes and then the fire hydrant easement we talked about that um the parking lot in needed resurfacing you've agreed you were planning on doing that anyways you're you're also cutting up the parking lot as it is to you put the uh the roof drainage into um the yes we we are we we tried to reduce the the impact that that would have um uh you know deciding where to put those drain lines but we would be cutting up some of the pavement um the condition would be the update the plans to show that detail yes we'd have to show a milling and Paving detail we talked about the parking calculations the parking calculations on the plan will be updated to match the email yes the numbers that that the board had in front of them the um the lighting we talked about you're you're replacing the lights going to be the LED lights to replace the kind of shoe box lights with with LED down downward lights correct yes they will be downward focused about the post themselves the post are kind of beat up they're old they're rustling you know what's going to happen with the post yeah they're they're they would be proposed to be replaced as well I think we probably need a detail for that too okay so I took it as you were replacing the lights and not the post but you're going to do the whole post yes okay that that should be added on the plans I believe there's a comment from the environmental commission that they were concerned about the night light so if um downward lit light would be advantageous and the same thing with the lights for the signing if the more lights that are down I think that would help address that comment um the sepic system obviously they'll need Su count any health department approvals any condition the I'm not going to talk about signs anymore um think we talked about that the um okay dumpster pad there's a dumpster pad on the lower lot yes can you talk what's going to you're going to put you're going to put an enclosure around there correct um we had not uh proposed to do that on the plans but we could we could agree to do that yes it's part of your design standards what kind of enclosure do you envision um I was picturing a board on board uh but I don't know if that's what you envisioned Joe uh or if You' would rather have some kind of material that would better match the building or maybe we paint it black I I don't use the same material please you know what Mr dun could you repeat that because he's not our microphone and oh um let's get it on the record yes uh we would propose a a a dumpster enclosure uh that would reflect either uh complement or match the materials on the building in color and type right that mean no chain link uh it may be something like PVC uh colored color PVC or painted wood or if we can incorporate the exact uh material we we would do that I think you can do that before the next meeting so everybody sees it before we adopt the resolution yes if it's if it's important to the board we we would certainly show that yes um you you talked about the um we talked about the parking lot numbers previous coverage one item is a front yard setback is existing 24.2 ft correct yes existing condition um but you are changing the roof line on that corner so are you requesting a variance for that even though it's existing condition you're changing the roof line and and um and modifying that corner you're not getting any closer but you're still keeping 24.2 I think um Dan I think you talked about that in the beginning you're requesting that that's one of your variances correct yes but it's pre-existent non-conformity we weren't going to change it but okay but there's a series of cases that talk about right when you have like a single story building that's in the setback Cory and I talked about this today and you go up to two stories that it kind of intensifies the effect of that setback I'm not sure a sloping roof with a I don't know a Gable or event like that is much of an intensification it's not adding a second story or anything but I think as a technical matter from the board's perspective and the applicants maybe we should call it out as a variance the for the reasons I just said maybe it's a the Minimus sort of effect and we can approve it but it should be probably noted and I can note it in any resolution all right thank you and I think think that's all I have okay thank you yes sir all right with that um let me open it up to the board hate to go back to signs but um one thing I I know everyone everyone tries to find things by GPS yes and they put an address in not a not a business name it may be helpful to put uh the street address on that that sign have about out front know where it say Pine Plaza but putting 172 in there somewhere or something um I think it I think it would be helpful for people trying to find find the location yep with pine cone Plaza being on there we're going to have such a large signs I don't see that being a problem orning at all okay yeah all right that's it so the number will be stated yeah I just have a few I don't know which I don't know which witness to direct them to so I'm just gonna ask you all and then whoever's the best um I just want to go over the business uses so the gym someone mentioned 10 or 12 people at a time how many classes a day uh so well it's about between five and six a day scattered from early morning to evenings what's early morning and what's evenings 5:30 a.m. right is that when start yeah 5:30 a.m. until until about approximately till about yeah till about 7 and then a small break and then again until about 11 o'clock at night no 11 o'clock in the morning oh you're oh 5:30 7 so if you want to make it really simple just say it operates on off hours from 5:30 to 7:00 there's about a 2hour break or hour and a half break and then operates again to about 11: and then it's closed and shut down until about 3:30 until about 7:00 p.m. so 5:30 a.m. couple hour breaks last class starts at 7: correct um and the Exterminator you're you only expecting like two employees yeah so the Exterminator was the the business was approved already but we're waiting for this to finish and then that but he has uh there's two employees part of the approval was two trucks being parked on site um and no chemicals on site it's l just Administrative Office the dry cleaner they're already an existing business do you know what their hours are um I believe she operates from 8:00 a.m. to 6 PM approxim that be I believe it's about Monday through Friday yeah it's just her how about the nail salon the nail salon operates uh I believe every day um but 10:00 a.m. to about 6 or 7 o'clock p.m. and the accountant the accountant is sporadic it's like appointment only Steve's been there forever St um so it's just one client at a time one client at a time yeah it's him and and one other woman is a he has administrator there um in terms of the time that you open 5:30 a.m. are the parking lights going to be on at that time yeah everything's on timers currently right now what are the timers going to run the new the new proposed what Chang so so the new timers would be daylight um so let's say approximately 5:30 and then they change as you know as as the as the sunset changes correct so and then dusk say they stay on overnight and they stay on so right now we have them staying on till about 11:00 just because of the uh the households that are local on the backside um but we could set them to really whatever everyone wants them to do what about the signs on the building the signs on the the signs on the building themselves would be right now there's no lit signs on any of the buildings but if we do ground lighting or scon lighting we would kind of direct the same exact thing I believe the gym when was on Main Street was I believe it turned off at uh 10:30 or 11:00 um the garbage pickup do you have it uh is it a specific schedule that you have do you have the schedule for the garbage pickup Shan do you know I don't know but it must be midday because they never come when we're there so it has to be when we're closed in that midday section um and then again let's get that on the record yeah sure yeah so approximately midday I could get you the exact days of pick of pickup if you want but it's about midday and what do you expect the length of time for construction to be um upon approvals I would say approximately most of this work is aesthetic and then internal work um you want like the full scope of of everything start to the end yeah I would I would say that if we were to if we were shovel ready today I would say approximately six to seven months on everything uh thank you that's all the questions I have sure so I want to talk about impervious coverage um so what would it take to bring this into compliance with the ordinance um and you know things that come to mind are taking away the drive and it was brought up earlier taking away the wraparound drive and connecting the two driveways at the shortest distance two parking lots at the shortest distance between one another um I know I heard earlier that you said that if someone came into the parking lot the large one could have to turn around to get out um but you've also testified that the patrons the volume of patrons the volume of Parkers is not really that high and you're seeking a variance for the parking spots so it might not be as important to have that lot have two entrance an entrance and an exit at it what would it what would that do to the number if you were to just connect the two parking lots at the closer end right across and get rid of the whole drive there add exhibit um a101 sheet two uh looking at the landscape plan and first I was working on your first question um what would it take it would take approximately 6,000 square feet of produced impervious to reach that 40 uh 40% and so therefore I didn't catch uh what your what your suggestion was of moving yeah I mean just thrwing out an idea I'm sure you have others but um if you connect the small parking lot to the large parking lot yeah bring it right across there and take out then the whole access road that swoops around okay that whole Loop uh would that would that create savings right um no I'm I'm just thinking of remove at the the top edge of the right parking lot right get rid of that road that comes around the side of the building make that all grass or vegetation and then instead keep this the lower parking lots connected right across right there yep is that an option um to consider uh my answer is no for a couple reasons okay um uh I think there are good good reasons why we would not do that um to first to connect these two parking lots uh we'd have to relocate the dumpster Pad but more importantly uh it would disturb the the septic system which which we don't want to do um we we do anticipate that that would that the SE septic system would not need to be modified for this proposal so we'd want to keep that in place and not disturb that area um I would have to see how the parking if that was feasible I would have to see how the parking would work out because we would lose some parking spaces by connecting those uh we would also be adding some impervious but it you know by appearance it looks like with your suggestion um we would reduce more than we we add uh secondly second of all um I think the the importance of this is when you're dropping off if you drop off people it's closer to the building um if you don't have this access uh then uh there's there's a big space of landscaping between the building and the parking lot uh for people to walk across um that that's the only reason I would uh I would not recommend do doing it that way um we'd have more sidewalks to connect things uh so I and and then also there's that issue of of a dead end parking lot um where if a car pulls in uh they would they would need the ability to you know have a backout area so that that or like a hammerhead or something shape uh that that takes up space as well it's really like a balancing how do uh how do customers get from that large lot to the building do they walk across that grass are you expecting them to walk across that grass um there's two two uh sets of steps and sidewalk oh okay there's about a five foot grade of difference other yes thank you okay he's our engine there is a there's I said earlier testimony there's a grade differential as well okay and of course by doing that you would disturb a lot more land than what we're trying to do here any other other options come to mind I just it's just that the I know you're reducing it slightly from the existing but the existing is really really high I mean it's almost half it's over half the lot um the 49 is still 22 and a half% above the maximum allowed right so that's why I'm trying to help search here for other solutions to get it closer to compliance would you be would you consider getting rid of some of this this sidewalk how important is this um I mean most of yeah this is this is really tough cuz you know so from a a flow perspective if we're looking at we have these parking spaces here designated for the dry cleaner she has like people are in and out like one one one to five minutes call it right we have I believe it's three or four spots designated for her everyone Walks from here to here so if the board was we could very easily remove this section here and have whether we have a path from this side going to the um the proposed staircase to the roof uh this isn't really used at all so the answer is yes we could um it just depends on from a flow perspective because everyone from the nail salon scenario everyone's coming from this top lot typically down and it's going to be the same thing for these other two locations here um and then the the gym location everyone is typically walking around to the front of the building on the pine cone side so we could create something here I mean obviously the sidewalk is there um for a wraparound access but I it very rarely gets used yeah so Joe uh if the board so choos uh you would stipulate to removing the walkway on that side of the building up to the nail salon entrance yeah as long as they you know if if everyone's in agreeance to allow me to make it as aesthetic as possible from a function you know what do you mean by that like like Stone steps to the base of some sort of if I'm going to remove this I need to just have an aesthetic walkway to the roof access I just don't want someone to be walking from dead sidewalk and then to a grass section Yeah just something or just be able to continue a path whether the entrance to that Axis or if I just want it to be but something permeable correct yeah okay and that that that side and that access is just used for occasional maintenance on the roof correct all the the the heating and AC units are on the roof um you know otherwise there's there's no structure change on the roof but that would be the only only time okay how big is that proposed walkway or the existing walkway that you're willing to propose to remove it's about 4T I was I was just checking if um this area in front was impervious but it it is it is long I think that's about all yeah so how um to to uh the earlier question what size sidewalk are you considering removing on that side of the building it's 4 feet wide what's the length of it is it the length of the building 4X 50 because we would we would need to keep the sidewalk meeting to the correct yeah it has to stay there so about 4 feet by 50 so got 200 square feet but the owner indicated he'd need something to replace at least a part of it right yeah I mean if just from a flow perspective from business to business I mean it is a women's only location you know there the nail salon is there everything from a flow um from just my point of view a 200 squ foot change if it was a thousand maybe it would make more sense but I don't believe a 200 square foot change would make sense here have you considered permeable Pavement in the parking lot um I I I I'm under the impression that pervious pavement is very expensive and hard to maintain uh and uh it would but we haven't calculated for that so I can't tell you exactly what that would entail but the you know I mean if we remove the 200 square ft uh anything that would be put in for the purpose of flow would be permeable he would stipulate to that so if that was pavers or some perious concrete or something it would make sense and Cory can I ask for your opinion on the perable pavement option any of your thoughts from that very expensive very expensive it's not necessarily it's Al the asphalt but all the drainage you have to put underneath MH I mean um they are reducing U you know you're getting into a part where they're going to be reconstructing large parts of the the parking lot to get it down to where you you know the the impervious coverage what we've done is it's part of zoning permits we've allowed the impervious cover you know pavers to be put in but the perious papers are put you know put in with a um with a stone base underneath with the curbing on the side to help conf you know confine the water so it goes down into you know the um the the ground below um you'd have to figure out if the ground can handle that water at this point at this location you know will it actually work it it's it's going to be harsh it's it's a harsh I they do think they're trying you know they they have made made made it better you have a site that's been around for decades so it's you know trying to come back and bring it the hway to their 40% that's 40 what is the number we got get to 40 that's 49 to 40 yeah to do that you'd end up into some large reconstruction the length of the driveway the wraparound driveway portion now is that designed for two lanes now existing existing you can get two lanes around but they're going to one One oneway Direction yeah right now is used as double flow it's not wide enough for two way no no no but you're proposing to only make it one L and that's where the three is that where the most of the 3% reduction of impers coverage comes from yes by reducing that pavement area what about all the way down through the driveway that's 12et wide and I don't think you fire dep we plan show 15t just narrow that down a little bit your plant show 15 ft you can narrow down a little bit where you have the stairs coming down could agree to do that okay okay um let's move on uh quick question Landscaping um are are you planning on using only native non-invasive species or can you consider that I believe that was uh right species of landscaping it's my time to shine um yeah yeah it's the environmental commission uh did have some comments um instead of like the the spilled wine with jilia uh they had some other plants that they were recommending um instead of Norway spruce I think they wanted to see uh Eastern red cedar which is Jun Jun virgin um I I think that's a decent Choice uh the only comment I would have about the East uh the Juniper is that the the habit of it is kind of halfhazard um but and it's not doesn't really trim well yeah but um but we could we could certainly do that in the few areas that we're proposing Evergreens so the answer is yes we could could even if it's not those specific ones just other native to this area yes it be acceptable okay uh the parking lot lighting I just want to go back to that for a moment because as you know there's this is a residential the borders residential areas so I want to I'm concerned about the nighttime lighting and making sure that residents aren't uh Disturbed after closing and I know there's some safety issues with keeping lights on all night but can you talk more just about the lighting you know after after dusk I think the testimony from the owner was that um the lights would be turned out after 11:00 p.m. um because if you turn out right when the people close or the building business closes there still some employees lingering around doing some cleanup um so we want to leave it on till 11: p.m. um could we are you leaving the building lights on all night no they'll coincide with I mean so it'll be a dark site after 11 11 is across the street and they're open 247 yeah you know I mean but pretty typically on other prop properties that we have we'll have lighting to the sign love lighting to the signs to a certain time it really just depends on the townships really you know Westfield is going to be different than everywhere else but um it's really you know the the timing we're very open to but pretty typically what we've done in Sparta is the lights turn off at approximately 11 o'clock with the outskirts of some of the lighting stays on in the parking lot maybe a few of them but most of the time um we'll turn the lights off at a certain time okay so the park I guess the parking lot are the brighter lights right that might affect residence correct yeah but again we would I'm planning on redoing the post doing downward lights versus upward lights um then you can you could you could set what what stays on and what doesn't stay on okay so so I heard you say 11 p.m. 11 p.m. is usually the time that we do if the board wants something different that's fine but 11 o' is typically that time okay so they go off except for couple that may be required for security purposes typically yes yeah and you and and you would notice that across pretty much every strip mall in town is approximately the same can we switch to the uh the architectural the visual the photo realistic I just want to see the can you just talk a little bit about the tower that's proposed for the the signage the top of that Tower can you describe that um from here in this angle it kind of looks how would you describe that multi-angle yeah right so it's basically made up of four pieces slightly there staggering in height to kind of an apex at the top but so the back the further ones back are higher than ones in front um again we're kind of mimicking the materials of the building already so stucko facade with the louvered um pieces at the tops um and basically they're just kind of stepping their way up like bring opening what style would you describe that in I mean it's a a modern interpretation of I mean some of these elements here are more Craftsman Lake style yeah roof lines but um um Power being more of a modern interpretation of that would you consider thinking about the the tower design the top of it and making it more consistent with the the other rest of the building the uh the Craftsman and that that Lake design that seems like it might fit in with Sparta uh um right I mean so I guess one thing to factor in with that is if I do put a roof on top of it I am adding prous coverage um because I'm basically now enclosing it um yeah I mean I could certainly uh explore some other options on it to to see what else might um be appropriate there uh or or more residential field I guess is what you're looking for yeah yeah um yeah that's the other side of theing this is more enclosed something like that right this this is front of the tower again a more contemporary looking Tower because it's a triangular shape versus your typical four-sided Square Tower so it's working off of the already existing uh language of the building so mhm yeah I'm just thinking this design wise it it kind of the the large Peak like that jumps out um sort of in contrast to the rest I'm not sure if that's the intention well it is to some extent to contrast as as a taller Tower type element so there's there is definitely an intent there to stand out especially with the front Towers kind of marking the building so it is to draw your attention into so you see Pine con FL may let me just pause I could ask my colleagues anybody have any opinions on the especially the front Tower shape I don't want to be the only one commenting on that I mean I I agree I think you know it's going in a residential Zone um to try to to stay as close to that as we can I I think you know looking looking at this youve done some good things but that does does stand out if there's anything you could do to soften that a little bit I think that would be appreci appreciate it okay um yeah I mean it would require a little bit of redesign I guess to kind of come up with another concept that would basically uh accommodate what you're looking for so um and so the board understands Corey asked how we handle some of these design changes and all of them have been kind of discreet details that's a to that's a different design change I would not be comfortable doing it by way of approval followed by memorialization that I would s if we do go in that direction then the matter has to be carried and that's got to come back as part of our consideration okay we can keep talking about that one uh I did notice in one of the reports slightly different topic there are existing monitoring Wells on the property can you just talk about about that the context the background the status of those monitoring Wells yeah so when I I bought the property in 20 I believe it was 21 is when we bought that property or 2020 or 2021 um there was ground cleanup um for um I believe it was a gas station years ago and the owner that I purchased the building from U part of the purchase agreement was yearly monitoring they're getting really close um I believe I submitted a report um I'm not sure if everyone saw it but the report said that they're they're it if they were to test right now it would be considered satisfactory but they're going to clean it for probably one more year um and then the ground will be um whatever parts per billion and I couldn't tell you exactly what the terminology is but they said they're about 12 months out from that being completed okay and just to confirm that process that step still will be ongoing regardless of construction any approvals any new designs and yeah it's not my third party they actually the cleanups in the front of this building they have the wells up in the front Okay and they come once a year they pull the they pull the testing and then they send us a report okay it was a car dealer that closed in the 60s car dealer oh and then sat vacant forever then probably when someone finally did buy it and re redo the present rendition that's probably when the monitoring went in okay uh back to the exterior for a moment the uh did you mention the the the color of the stucco that the light is that a cream just so we have it um can I actually have samples okay I was here last week so I figured I'd bring everything for good idea just bring me just give me that whole thing right give me the whole so we haven't like picked an actual color yet um we were kind of open to uh the coloring wise on this if I want if you guys want to pass this around and take a look at it but we were looking at like we said like an ivory Beach kind of color um this will be the the actual stuckle that we would use so we would pick like in this realm here okay while that's going around uh would you mind flipping to the other large picture again photo maybe Dean I mean we can look at the colors not saying we don't but at a minimum what you're showing us in the renderings is if not exact is a fair representation of the colors and materials that are going to be used correct yeah that was the the point of why I pay to get these made is for that reason for a visual one and then two this is approximately what we're going to use as close as I can get to the colors okay so in that range of the you showed us here corre not white not a dark color okay that's that's fine for me then same thing if everyone wants to see you know just fronting brick and then the the metal that they use for the roofs so the um are are you actually proposing the large 172 on that side or is that we didn't we didn't address that I mean it jumps out of as being enormous um it was put in there on on a rendering not necessarily I don't believe we really spoke about at all I don't have any design plan for it okay U but it was more of just kind of a visual I mean a number usually doesn't count as a sign but a big number might count as a sign would you consider removing that yeah absolutely okay yeah because that 172 is really woodport road but this is in the back of the building so that gets confusing 172 will be removed okay thank you right uh this might be my last one for now the uh I I apologize for going back to signs again can you go to the you keep flipping I'm sorry I should have done this an order can you flip to the other one again so the the large sign on the tower that you're going to come back and show us the actual design of uh can you describe to us how much out of compliance is that in terms of our visual here and what would it take to get that large sign into compliance on the tower so heard the ordinance everything relates to the size of the wall that it's on so again I'm somewhat restrictive if I have a small wall that's uh um limiting what would be considered uh allowable so right now you're allowed 5% all we're proposing uh 36 I'm sorry s 30% right 30% so 5% would be you know kind of one sixth of this sign basically yeah which would kind of be feel somewhat insignificant in the scale build I believe the ordinance it talks about there's a Max size and a Max height too right not just the wall size so if you looked at it from that perspective yeah so from uh width of the sign um we're proposing uh you're allowed 50% of the width of the wall I should say and we're proposing 67% of the width of the wall um so that one we're a little bit over but not not too bad considering again we're just walking out talking about a six foot long wall and then as far as the height you're allowed 10% of the height of the wall uh that's where we're over at 46% so that one is uh the most significant of these but but is it is there a two feet height restriction in the ordinance as well for signs um so for a building mounted sign um I don't believe there's a is there a height I me doesn't go by the eight for rule at least because all these PR starting at a point that's higher than 8 feet just because there's no wall space at it see if I can find real quick yeah I think I think you meant not that they have to be8 feet high that they can't be more than 8 feet in vertical length I think that's for the actual sign itself yeah I think that's what he might be referring to about the free standing sign yeah the Lang the wall sign 50% of the height of the wall yeah the maximum height of any sign shall not exceed 10% of the wall or two feet whichever is less and that's from the ordinates okay right yeah and that's typically applying for like a linear on a sign but which yeah like for all these signs here that would be the so yes we would be over the two feet so so so so the requirement is 2 feet and that is is how big how much 8.5 8.5 the the sign I mean we still have to determine whether or not the board wants us to somehow change the tower because that would impact the sign itself and the wall size and and all of the other factors so if that's something that we have to consider consider before votes taken then that could impact the sign itself mhm but it's fair to say no way is it going to be two feet high um correct I would say we're gonna aim for higher and a good portion of this sign is the pine cone the branch so the actual sign part of it is is certainly Less close to more like under two feet okay so I think what I'm hearing is if we if we later get to a point where we're thinking about you know doing more with the tower shape then we'll think about the sign size and if that has to be redesigned we can talk about that okay okay thank you that's all I have for now all right well I wasn't going to talk about signs so but you did so I'm so I'm listening to all of this um I did drive past there and it is very difficult to see the words the names of the people you slow down you're trying to read it but as I was coming up here and I passed the post office they have a sign I forget what it says but let's just say it say pinecomb Plaza that's the big sign then all the other names are inside so maybe the big the this outside sign can just say Pine conb Plaza then you won't have to worry about what's on that wall and then you'd see the 172 anyway just throwing it out there as to get around all of that but you know when you go past the post office it just has the name of whatever Plaza it is so that was originally what was drawn on here but there was a request for 172 woodport yes 172 pinec con Plaza and just leave all the names off because you can't read them anyway oh you mean on on this on the and then people will see pinec cone Plaza and you won't need that and you get the benefit to having the signs along woodport road is that that road has the most Vehicles traversing it so if for the gym for example being able to see the gym on the other side or being able to see the Exterminator on the other side or being able to see the accountant on on the other side it's going to be a little bit more difficult so although you might have their address you wouldn't be able to see that unless you went up hunters or you went down pine cone I think it's important to have it along woodport road but as you're coming you're making that turn you have to make the turn because there is no other entrance so you never really get all the way up to the sign anyway to see it you can think about it it's like I think it's important to have those signs along way whatever yeah yeah that's the most traveled path so but I definitely you know I think the pine cone uh Plaza sign I think that's important but I think it's going to be changed if the towers change so we need to figure that out really I was just looking to and I hope everyone can take this on the consideration I'm looking to kind of brand the building in the town that's kind of the point of that all right my other question if you go back to the other rendering there is a sidewalk there correct so that if somebody had a park in the back and get to the nail salon they're on a sidewalk I'm correct so there is currently a sidewalk that stops here but we're going to continue it around to the front um because there are two entrances here and here for the other tenants we're continue to sidewalk all right because if you're going to take away the other side they would have to walk along the cars in the ice all right um how many steps are going up to the second floor uh there's approximately 12 steps and what kind of material will that be yeah so that's a I mean as far as uh the Treads are it's an open tread so um B to allow snow to go through so pile up on on stairs for maintenance purposes um it would be in a black finish to mimic the black um detailing around the entire building and how would a handicapp person access that accountant's office uh I mean currently it is not accessed either way I mean it's uh there is no handicap access currently to well I guess can't address that uh all right that's all I have for right now I just have one quick question did you guys say that there would be um an EV two EV parking uh charging stations there are corre yes yes two okay great that's it can we can we get clarification they going to be eeve stations installed or going to be Make Ready spots uh I think the we're offering the the Make Ready EV yeah make ready spaces the state regulations mean you have to have two that are Make Ready spaces at the minimum or they're going to install it so I don't want to say you're going to install it then you go to you know to to the gym and they're not there that I think that's got to be clarified isn't there a deadline in the statute query but they have to be turned into real I think there is I don't know what it is off the top it's like two years or three years or something I think okay I think it is but I don't think Sparta does not have it ordinance on it so you go by the state statute okay I guess you got U Jen done that was it that's all I and just a follow-up to handicap as well is that did you say that ADA in the beginning yes okay just a a couple quick ones so my my concern you know looking at at the parking and and and the variants um so if this was approved um but what I want to make sure is that if anything changes on the use in terms of what's being approved because the Varan acqu you would come back to the board so for instance if you got retail and you've got office space there you could replace that but if that was become a restaurant or something else you'd have to come back to us same thing with the you know even the gym I I think you know this gym this fitness center has got some unique type of uh clientele flow uh where it's classes as opposed to they come come as they want so want to make sure that if the youth changed that you you would agree to come back to the board to vet that before going into any type of agreement with the Ron do they have to come back I'm I'm just thinking this through in terms of procedure I know in other towns I've been involved then we've had uh resolutions that say they go to the zoning officer with the new calculation you know we've now changed from Jim to doctor whatever it may be and if they show the new calculation fits whatever we've approved tonight which I guess we're approving a variance of six spaces if I remember correctly and it doesn't go beyond that and the zoning officer has the ability to sign off on the other hand if you want to see it yourself we can just require them to come back here Sor let me let me ask your thoughts on that as of right now what we've done is we've sent them to the site plan waiver subcommittee and then plan waer sub committee would make the determination I just not think the board necessarily needs to take up time or at an official hearing if we can have some gatekeeper first okay so any any new use would go to the site plan waiver committee recognizing if additional waivers were required the site plan waiver committee couldn't uh couldn't approve it would have to come back to the board because we don't have that okay okay that's good okay then the other one just kind of maybe a silly question but um so there's access to the roof through the tower um is that somehow restricted that you know like someone kids in a neighborhood can't go and play or how how is that yes yeah I I uh mentioned that that we would have a gated entry at the bottom to access the stair and then once you get into the that space you can Bally have okay all right thanks those are my questions okay um let me do this unless anyone has any other questions let me open it up to the public okay members from the public any questions relative to the testimony Jennifer dereck's tap into Sparta uh just a couple of questions my biggest question is on the use in this Zone this is C1 we go to to the applicant to the applicant or to you or to Mr BR I think at this stage I think the questions go to the applicant okay uh it's a C1 and even in Katherine sod's letter she asks that you be prepared to talk about the use um in the C1 Zone uh Fitness gym fitness none of those are listed as a um permitted use so how does that square with what's being proposed I like the building I think it's a nice uh Improvement but I'm just the use is an issue I don't think it's an issue um this is a service building providing the service for the community this is a specialty Fitness activity there how it's not it's not a permitted use under C1 ordinance in the ordinance hear if it was not a permitted use that's my answer so Mr John your testimony is what falls under a service business yes which is a permitted correct okay it's been referred to by the um applicant giving Tes that it is they've called it several different things a gym a fitness center a women's gym and so on if I called a Kleenex a facial tissue would it be the same thing I'm not looking for a fight I'm asking for clarification thank you clarified um the other question I have is I'm ass I'm assuming Mr day that that's going to be pursued that that question is going to be pursued by the board okay so let's so right right now the questions can go the applicant got I got it okay so the applicant the next question is um you're applying under jvp Ventures and as the only um and this is just a a minor thing on the application of Mr Paka you're listed as the owner or the proprietor um the the applicant but jpv has a partner um and I'm just curious why he's not listed jvp I I apologize for misstating that again it's a it's a minor thing Brower um pardon me for the Mis pronation Mr Patel of nine Joseph Court on the business status report it's kind of an irrelevant question well the application asks for the name of the owners and typically and major owner doesn't own the property but JP jvp no jvp vors does not own the property no no you're not owning you're the applicant and the applicant is usually any um all the people that are involved with the business itself are required to be listed it's a minor point I would assume but it's a technical thing and there's a reason why we have these forms that's my only other question thank you I like the I do have a question about the design can you explain or can I is right if I come in I don't understand what you're because we back here we can't see the the the larger sign that you're talking about is it right if I come in oh that okay thank you hi Margie Murphy Sparta um I want to know if I guess this is for the applicant if you are digging up and and taking down the entire structure that's there now is this correct no not at all you're not at all you're just building on top of it and REM modifying it all we're doing is refacing it and we're putting a front facade okay from from an appearance perspective um has the soil been tested with the clean the dry cleaners that have been there and also the nail salon and the new requirements with the past and the Plastics the dry the drying cleaner never dry cleaned anything on site from my knowledge the currently she's everything is shipped out so nothing's cleaned but the ENA cleaners was there for many many years before this person that's there now gets cleaned gets checked every single year as part of the contamination but outside of that that's the that's the testing that's done okay how about for the new regulations with the past and the Plastics with the nail salon and that nail salon is extremely busy because I go there and there's 20 people there quite often at a time so I mean is that get into I don't know where that gets placed if it's in the garbage if it's in the ground if it's in I don't know I'm just not familiar with the regulation on the pest oh that's the Plastics that the Jersey regulations has just lessened the allowable content um and then also I mean it's it's a nice design that kind of goes with a little bit with the older buildings up above the um asking hooker buildings but um yeah I'm I'm curious about the the soil content and the the parking lot is atrocious right now so will those steps also be done that'll be going down to the second level correct yeah aesthetically that's going to be cleaned up as well okay thank you Mark Scott 9 P Parkway Sparta I really like the design too it's quite an improvement um as my wife indicated you know sometimes you have 20 20 people in that uh nail salon but we've only got four parking spaces right four or six is that correct for the for the nail salon okay and you're talking about the property being short of Spaces by six spaces which is about over 10% shortage is it is it this and you know last week we had parking parking issues and we just reduce the parking level and then the week before the lot the month before we also reduced the parking so is it are are the cars getting smaller or or there less cars or why why do we need less parking in why do we allow less parking in all these buildings than the regulations than the sparta regulations and the rules are why do we change that every time why does the planning board change that every time or why does the applicant ask for that every time well we we try to um explain to the board that there's justification for those counts and every uh property has a specific reasons for that then the board can decide on each specific specific uh application on whether or not it's appropriate based on how the buildings used a historic use um different times of uh of peak use there's shared parking and that's uh very much uh favored by uh by smart growth okay how can thank you that was very clear um how can you uh give bonus spots when you don't know how complete the EV Chargers will be I mean is it just going to be wires to the charger to the spit station or will the actual Tesla charger be there will the actual rivan charger be there in in and and functional and working and because if you're not going to put so that's the question is will the charger be there will it be functional someday it will be there um our only obligation uh is as the site plan um is to provide EV ready parking which is as you said uh conduit uh brought to the location of a future EV charging station um the State statue is where we get the two parking credits um and that that enumerates why if it's eveve ready we get to spit two credits um and it's also the state statute that says there is a timeline I think it's 3 and a half years where they have to install the the actual charger there was a just just on a side note there was a question just like this in another board meeting that I had and the it was my client he specifically said he said the Chargers that are going to exist in three and a half years are going to be significantly more efficient than the Chargers that will exist today so it's actually better to wait but I I can't testify to that I'm just letting the board know that these are conversations that other boards are having but ultimately I do believe that whatever is put there in a year will be better than whatever is existing now and think it's regulated by State Statute and the state statute provides specifically that one of the things you can do is have these Make Ready spaces and as I said I read it like last week and but now it seems to be escaping my mind there's a deadline in the statute by which they have to be converted I think to actual I agree I agree we can put that in the resolution as well but I I can't find it right now I was trying to find it here but I think Jason you just comment at three and a half years yeah you think that's okay accurate the the issue with the um Make Ready they have to put the conduits in the ground now though yeah while they're doing all the work absolutely and now the no better time to do it but also has also has to do with availability I have I have another applicant with the waas and I can't get the Tesla stations right now because Tesla so fired half their their EV uh you know fast charging uh department so that's uh hopefully 3 years from now it's a little within a couple years it's a lot more friendly and different but how does the board how is the board secure that this this EV charger will be there in three and a half years and what happens if it doesn't get done so now we've approved a property 15% less parking spaces it's not a question at the moment well it is a question let me question it's a comment right it's a question it's a rhetorical question board right now you're how does the board secure that the EV charger will be there in three and a half years is there a hold back is there a letter of credit posted what is there es post the zoning officer would take that action that's the zoning officer's responsibility if we if we violated any conditions of approval this evening it would be a zoning officer issue or a building department issue the board the board doesn't drive around and right don't we have that um that compliance guy I forget his name Andrew we do we have a code enforcement officer but it would be something through the zoning off off through a resolution compliance where we would keep track of that it's difficult that that you know three years from now you know somebody's going to have to remember that it's there but said she keeps a list of almost everything so you have to keep a EV list someplace post on the wall that everybody can look at but the U but I it is I'm not sure if I agree with the statute the way the state has it written and make it EV but that's that's what we have the statute allows for the credit on the parking they let yeah they allow for the credits an incentive to to to make these EV spaces not get additional space you have 50 spaces they they get credit for 52 not actually 52 but it's a it's a incentive that the state put in that statue to try to make EV more uh frequent but they're still stuck with the 50 I think the only question that comment I can state is when they're talking about variances you know your various the the town's ordinances are all set up you know parking requirements you know for you know you know one for 100 square feet or one for 200 square fet and you might have 10 different requirements where you you know you have those parking you know the 10 different uh types of businesses type of uses to have those it's not a fit you know one fit you know all type of thing it's every application's got to look at does that seem to be you know appropriate I think there was questions here about the uses and how the people come in and out and they're going to be utilizing these plac I think the board's got to look at every individual space and and way that if 58 space they can't have 58 spaces you know do they need to need the extra eight or is that a fatal flaw of the application um and then you know like I think Dean has qu you know comments about well now we're balancing out parking spaces and impervious coverage and you know that's it's it's part of this whole discussion each individual spot and while we're on the subject of parking just so I can clarify an earlier question from the public um it was referenced Katherine's report um on page six of 10 of her report I'm not going to read the entire paragraph into the record but um Katherine's report my office's report supports that the gym fits under the one per 100 category and all the other uses fall within the one per 200 foot category ategory it's the top paragraph on page 6 of 10 we commented on it and I believe the applicant has addressed it through their testimony they actually redid the numbers on the Fly tonight so the I don't want to mislead anybody table two where we broke down the number of off street parking requirements is has been update this even has been updated this evening um based on the testimony and the additional exhibits provided by the applicant so I I did the calculations it's we we should we agreed with the numbers that were presented which is a total of 58 parking spaces required for the uses discussed this evening plus you know the the 50 and then the two for the two bonus spaces so there's a six parking space variance that's being requested tonight and we support that the gym is identified as one per 100 broken out separately from the other uses and And to clarify what M DK asked earlier who is the owner of the building is it is it prior to IPL because it said that's what it says no more we didn't understand no that is not no it's all Public public record right on the application can I follow up with a question or do I have to wait yeah let's let Mr Scott finish his and then we'll bring it back to okay no turn it over to miss Ferman thank you okay all right um I am curious about that as well because as I'm looking at this it has the ownership disclosure statement as jvp Ventures and you know if anybody has more than 10% or more you'd have to listed and it's just you so jvp Ventures right I'm the 100% owner of jvp Ventures okay um but on the Affidavit of ownership it has your name but the owner signature and it has prior to IPO properties in two places which is a different Corporation so originally when we submitted this application this was eight eight or 12 months ago at this point when we first started this the property was purchased underneath a different LLC and then was changed okay but this is datting did December 2023 December 17th 2023 there was a lot of work in progress on this originally and when my old property manager that doesn't work for my company any longer that's probably what was filled out originally so from December to now um but these were filled out like at the same time but they're two different ones so I would like to see this corrected so that there isn't any discrepancy down the road I'll make I'll make that correction in the application and resubmit it so anybody that was with prior to IPO is not going to be involved absolutely whatsoever so who actually owns the property right now 172 woodport Road LLC is the is the company that owns that okay so that's who should be signing this correct which I own that LLC okay so that LLC though um which is different than jvp correct so typically when I do applications I do them generally and then we kind of Switched but that that should be correct that you're right and so for this the one you just said um I'm sorry I didn't yeah 172 woodport L 172 woodport that just needs to be changed the name of the ownership and are you the only owner of that correct okay anything else no so I want I want to go back just to get clarification um on the question was asked earlier so when I look at principal permitted uses for this Zone this zone is limited business uses of retail sales and service type but only the following uses are permitted and in there the ordinance lists 11 types of uses so now that we've had the testimony I'm going to look to our Professionals for helping this one but I like to hear the applicant version of which of those 11 you feel you fall under as a the bowling alleys and Sports Center okay now now I'm going to turn to to my um professionals and and get your opinion on that it's similar to a dance studio understand underneath site plan section A I'm also looking at page six where uh Katherine's report breaking down the parking and comparing it to Dan Studios kadio Studio or similar use and then there's also a discussion of gems then we our report before I go back to subsection a says while the ordinance does not have specific parking standards delineated for each use the applicant has identified the applicant shall provide additional testimony related to the uses to best determine the appropriate parking standard and that's Mike I think I'm more on page on page five I understand I was just we called it out on the middle of again that top paragraph on page 6 of 10 on the uses for the applicant to provide additional testimony and tie it to the uses that are within now I'm back on the top of page five of 10 the print issue there is Mr Dunn said this is a a service use which is permitted but if if the paragraph on top of page five is accurate while it says Service uses are permitted it then throws in the the kicker only the following uses so it's kind of like even though it uses the word service it kind of limits it and so how does that get read and I think according to Mr Bendorf well we think we fit in generally with the part that deals with bowling alleys and uh sports centers sports centers yeah that's correct I had a brief conversation with Katherine about it but she's not here so I don't want to say anything out of I believe the gym is the gym there today the gym yes but again I I wouldn't I don't I don't really know that it's it's a gym come there for classes you don't go there and like pump iron like like it's not like a small group training Studio yeah it's it's class instructor Le instructor Le so your position it's it's it's it's it's a sports it's a sport so I'm just looking to yeah Professionals for their thoughts on it and the classes are limited in size you knowy generally it doesn't limit how many people can come but classes would be limited I think with those qualifiers that it's it's you can make the conclusion that it fits within sports centers yes okay is it solely instructor Le is that you're testifying correct with those qualifications any any thoughts on that no I think that's a planning type issue and it's whether or not it's either it's in that Sports use or a retail use that looks like the only two that would fit under the permitted all right so so it looks like the the way we're looking at this terms in terms of a of of a uh motion would be that this would be a sports center with the qualifications that were testified or provided in testimony on the record Class LED and there was a number of other ones what makes what makes Sports Center different from a dance studio Karate Studio since they're all led by in um instructors and is there another place where Jim is listed or is Jim just not listed anywhere we were in the like in the ordinance is Jim listed anywhere like where that is permitted I'd have to research the ordinance to answer that question so excuse me I'm you know can't I don't even see you I I think the question's been asked it's been answered it's a sports center I think we've got some um we've got a position from our professional so I think we we wrap the motion around that does anybody disagree with that I would like to hear because um it's Mike right Mike yeah Mike said he was going to research that I would if you'd give me a few minutes I'd have to research the ordinance give you the definition of gy and discuss the differences between the definition of gym if there's one in our ordinance versus what the qualifiers were to the sports center that they testified to tonight that's the difference okay and just so the board is aware we did make a number of Oprah requests I know Dory worked extremely hard to try to find uh the previous resolutions related to this property but unfortunately they she was unable to find him um and I don't you know so we couldn't even refer back to old and that's why I had the conversation with uh Katherine is it yes that's why I had the conversation with Katherine regarding this and we discussed the Sports Center in Bowling outs at that time and I did discuss it with Katherine prior to tonight's meeting and we she specifically talked to me about that use qualifying for the one per 100 and qualifying on this site but I can't tell you the convers which she did not go into details of the conversation that she had with the applicant's attorney or the specific qualifiers tied uh tied to it are there different parking Rel um regulations for sports centers it's more it's you have to give me one second Jo do you mean compartive exercise and fitness centers dance studio karate yeah I mean because if you're going to Define it as a sports center we have to know what those regulations are and is there a definition that describes a sports center you know rather than just guessing at it sure I was just doing a search I can't find anything there the definition of sports center a lot of times they there's different different sections of the code they refer to sports center with the tied with the bowling alley I find other sections it ties into recreational uses I find other other sections that tie it into you know um you know uh you know the indoor recreational uses I think all the zones were done at different different you know different times and the word not the same from section to section to section so I think it's up for interpretation and and under the parking standards the closest one that she identified was dance studio karate studio or similar use so that's what she used for the parking standards standard which could be different from the standard for the use itself because when we calculated the parking we don't have one for this specifically in our ordinance so she went with the one that she believed was the closest one which is actually more restrictive to the other uses um most of the other uses and that's why she call out instead of being one for 200 it should be one for 100 I'm only talking about the off street parking requirement M and that's why she went with the one that says un or similar use is there something uh parking for B uh regulation for bowling alleys since it's being lumped in there I do not see a parking standard for bowling alleys I think again when you look at the parking standards there there's there's a few things that are listed there in the table and and our job's going to be pick the one that best fits this and and is that a permitted use here yeah there's only for commercial use there's only eight right eight eight different divisions of uses you got retail office and Banks Medical Hotel hotels motels funeral homes dance studio karate studio restaurants real estate office is is anything less than one for 100 now one for 100 is the most stringent one believe that I assume that's what decided that because the turnover and everything for a gymnasium is going to be pretty high so I think they probably went with that so even if we and our off street parking requirements don't reconcile with our permitted uses and and they're not the same they're not addressing the same thing they're not addressing the same thing so I just want to make make I'm just trying to make that leap between the two and and and understand why she called out that one like it's the most restrictive one and she used of similar use and I'm only talking about the parking requ requ uh parking requirement right now not the use all the current tenants that uh are at this building now now besides the Exterminator which is only you said two employees is there any use of uh street parking no not that I'm aware of the parking lot is pretty empty when you drive by it just so everyone knows the gym has been there for several years so it's not like a it's been approved previously for use there and the calculation on the parking at that time with a different board was I believe it was uh one spot for every 200 that's how it was originally put in there and also in Main Street when it was there previously is it safe to say that the for the gym to be there that had to be certificate OCC occupancy so it's kind of been predetermined correct so so would that can we make a motion that recognizes this as a sports center and if you're uncomfortable you could you could abstain or about no I'll make a motion we do that is that our Ro yeah you that I mean the uh if there's a big issue interpretations are before the board of adjustment but a planning board has an inherent right to look at wording of this nature and interpret it for how it's going to apply it in a specific uh you know a specific instance so I don't see any issue with the board saying Sports Center given that it's not defined in the uh in the code Etc is the category that this fits under and like chairman said if you don't if you don't believe that's the case you you WR up but but again recognize that again so they've been given a certificate of OCC occupancy for this use by by the zoning so there's been a predetermination that that that's there already so um motion on the table okay so so I'd like to if we can make MO motion should be are we voting on just the use are we voting on on on approval with conditions or just the use is separate right okay first use separate okay so uh would anyone like to make a motion to um to accept this as a um support center yes I'll second you're second okay y uh do I roll call please Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti abstain n Burke yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman abstain Ernie rad yes chairman Ronde yes four yes and two abstain so that's a pass it's a pass okay okay so now made that determination but now the next step would be let's put together a motion if we could with your help before we get to that we did not have public comment we have public question thank thank thank you okay does anybody from the public have any comments um that you'd like to ask and because it's comment it's testimony so I need to swear you in you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do stay your name spell your last name and provide an address Jennifer Derek's d r i c k s tap into Sparta I would just request this do I get to ask a question um that since you made an a pretty significant deter uh interpretation of the use that that be memorialized in the resolution saying that accepting it as a sports center as a gym with the understanding that it's instructor-led and no other Fitness use so that in the future if somebody else comes along and says oh already was approved for this there isn't that stretch or that flexing of a use that we keep that we keep seeing thank you I think the better thing to do is Define what a sports center is but for the purp sometimes when uh sometimes when you hit these tough questions that's the trigger for either something coming from the township committee down to this board or from this board going to the township committee saying we should add a definition to the ordinance and is the time maybe to do that in one direction or another that's your ordinance list all right any other comments from the public hi Mark Scott nine P Parkway sparter New Jersey let's let's Square you in Mr Scott raise your right hand do you solemnly solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes sir what D dictionary does the planning board use to define Sports Center because I'm looking at the Cambridge Dictionary and Sports Center is defined as a building where you can play different sports and specifically it says all Cedar Amphitheater Ballard Bowl bowling alley box seat Clubhouse Dugout grandstand LGE neutral off track oval racetrack raceways skating rink stadium terrace it doesn't say instructor Le exercise but as the answer is you know we didn't use the dictionary um we had to make an interpretation um and we also relied on it it's a pre-existing use has been approved as as such any other questions from the public comments okay any other questions up here if not Mr BR you could help us with a motion yeah if uh got a lot of notes on possible conditions yeah um I'll run down them as best I can Mr chairman Mr Brady quick question um Mr Brady didn't you say that you weren't comfortable doing any kind of resolution tonight because you know that's a good question because that issue raised by Dean is kind of hanging out there and hasn't been resolved so let's resolve that first okay yeah want maybe we can go out in the hall and talk about the tower no maybe before you do that see how the board feels yeah not that mr's opinion should be just disregarded but maybe everybody should weigh in on it so so again so again with these meetings they they they're they should end at 10 o'clock we've gone over a little bit further um so um I think we may have to carry this to to another meeting as much I hate to do that I thing is then if it is carried that would be the perfect opportunity for this change to be made I was going to suggest Mr chairman know put 10:15 as the deadline instead of 10 and maybe let the board figure that out and then we kind of go from there okay would go with that okay okay than make your pit okay sure I'd like to make a motion that um the applicant uh come back with a redesign of the top of the the tower especially the top of the tower uh to make it more consistent with the rest of the building and a residential feel and I think you called a craftsman style uh a little bit more possibly suitable for the area second question any discussion anybody have thoughts comments it is on the new propos if you're going to go through the effort of making a new proposed plan is the signage the front signage standing one going to be altered as well to match what we discussed tonight I would assume so yeah I mean it's gonna all depend on this the design of the end product in order to determine what uh I'm sorry I'm specifically talking about the freestanding one free in other words everything that we discussed tonight are you going to update your renderings to match what was discussed um so I guess we've got a we got a motion we have a second so uh roll call please oh does uh I guess we open up to the public no it's a board action to uh do that all right roll call please Dory Deputy Mayor Dean blti yes Janette Burke yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Jo Ferman yes Ernie rad yes chairman Ronde yes with that being the case Mr chairman uh that's going to have to be R designed and as I said I'm a little I'm uncomfortable with saying that's a detail that can be adop adopted between action and memorialization that's a different idea so this should be in my opinion this should be carried I don't don't know how when the next meeting is with the board or when the next meeting is that's reasonable to expect the redesign to be submitted right um but but that's where we as soon as possible I so so I know I know we've got a u more than a full plate for the 17th and this one has some variances so I think we have a little bit more time to act um so given the schedule we're looking at DOR I'm thinking August unless we can get another special meeting that would be correct so the next meeting that we would have would be August 21st excuse me August 21st um unless the zoning board cancels their July 24th meeting then we may be able to use that evening but we will not know that until their July 10th meeting I have a question considering we have a very light board tonight when assuming that we have more members present whichever date the door just mention we have to run through the whole thing again or no the bo board members who wasn't pre who aren't present tonight can listen to the tape and then participate in the next uh meeting uh given what Dory just said said that it we we could do it in July if what so the zoning board meets twice a month normally they cancel their second meeting but we won't know that until they have their first meeting of the month make it determination then they can advise me the next day just as we had done for this meeting well if if July if the applicant can meet July what we could do uh is announce that it's going to be on for that July date and then if the zoning board doesn't cancel so we're not available to meet then it can be posted and carried without further notice the concern I have there is I I think when you look at the July date we've already got at least four applications so we do I don't want to promise that we could hear them knowing that it's probably just not you know we I want to bring you out and have you sit through this that that just wouldn't be fair to you so do we want to take just the August date then well I I think that's probably the best date if you would agree to that and then if something comes up sooner we can always come back and and you know revisit it POS there clarify the possibility would be perhaps July 24th if the zoning board cancels or if we can find some thought it was the 17th the 17th is the regularly scheduled meeting okay right so it would not be that would be you're never going to get it would be the 24th possibly if not it' be August unless we find a special the 24th but only if they tell us that they're cancelling but we have to carry to a date specific right okay got it and if we can get a quorum for a special meeting in the end of July so absolutely that's a whole other story so maybe it would be better than if you just take August plenty of time for the redesign and communication with the professionals and getting every detail right that's fine and that'll be August 21st August 21st 7 o'clock here without any further notice okay and one thing if I could ask um is you know I think there was some updates to drawings that need to be done y if you could get that to us in advance this was hard tonight and I understand you know sure the the reason but I think it goes better for everybody if we have time to look at them before we come in here we could probably get to get to An Answer real much faster understood thank you very much every thank you thank you gentlemen much appreciate appreciate itk you you guys see this down we no okay uh folks what where they're going so for tonight um being that this was a special meeting um I didn't have any uh other business on the agenda or any Council updates um so unless unless anyone has does anyone have any important that you'd like to put out here before before the next meeting no just like to share that the uh if you saw last night's council meeting there was a lot of discussion around the funding allocation for the master plan work and the introduction was approved and now it'll be discussed again at the next council meeting which will be uh 2 sorry the 4th Thursday in July so the 23rd will be our next council meeting all right thank you all right unless anybody has anything else is there a motion to adjourn Mr thank you I'm sorry yes thank you for reminding me all right anyone from the public like to talk about anything that is was not on the agenda or related to an application what's that thank you all right seeing none is there a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn okay is there a second yes I I okay all in favor say I I seeing none opposed the meeting is now adjourned thank you everybody