##VIDEO ID:gUJMumGFYhY## tonight's meeting of the sparta planning board Ronde is unable to attend based on a prior commitment meeting is now called to order for the record this meeting is being held on October 16th 2024 at the sparta Township Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is now 6:34 this meeting may be viewed on YouTube at youtube.com Sparta WP please note that adequate public notice of this meeting was provided in accordance with the open public meeting act please stand as we begin in this meeting with a salute to our nation's Flagg ALG to flag the United States of America to the stands Nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you Miss Fox would you please call the role Justin caneles Ernie ragad here Christine Dunbar Mike Sylvester Vice chairman Bill Enright here chairman Ron day Deputy May mayor Dean blumetti here Joan Ferman here Janette Burke here Celeste Luciano here Brian Zimmerman thank you Miss Fox uh the next item on the agenda is an executive session I'd like to proceed into executive session as described in executive session resolution number 202 24-16 relating to Adrien mirman vers PARTA Township planning board Travis surf pvm taking action as part of veterinarian Associates and Urgent Care and HCS Holdings LLC please note that Mr Collins will be recusing himself from this part of the meeting Mr David Brady will be taking over as the planning board attorney for this part of the meeting is there a motion to go into executive session motion I'll second all right we have Celeste as the first and Ernie is Ernie is the first is I'm the second got you okay Deputy Mayor Dean blti yes Janette Burke yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes celes Luciano yes Ernie Reet yes okay that motion to go into executive session is passed uh if you're watching at home on YouTube give us about 30 35 minutes and uh we'll be back uh after we close out e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I don't find the thing it's unbelievable e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we're good okay welcome back thank you for your patience the next item on the agenda tonight is a request for a minor subdivision application planning board me uh number 2393 uh Mr Collins can you explain what this is and and why an extenstion is being requested sure Mr chairman basically um U Larry and tana Allen previously obtained a minor subdivision along Glenn Road just be on the left hand side just before you reach the um Rock Island Lodge uh or Rock Island uh Rec catering facility their subdivision was basically to adjust the lot lines with their neighbor so that their neighbor would have some more land from their land and didn't result in any uh new houses or new new um Lots but the driveway to Rock Lodge uh crosses the the very corner of the property and so um in the course of the review it was recommended that an easement be granted or if possible uh a lot line adjustment to let that driveway be entirely on the Rock uh Lodge property take place that was effectively approved by the planning board here and then it took some time at the U County planning board and the County planning board approved it with a condition that they have their surveyor do the survey of the Rock Lodge property as well which took more time but is good practice and uh basically Mr Bendorf for the applicant he couldn't record them within 190 days of the date of the first resolution that's a requirement for minor subdivisions and in order to allow that to get recorded later uh the board would have to and extend the time period for recording of the Deeds of Miner subdivision I recommend that to you on this case it makes a lot of sense and it really is just a housekeeping matter do anyone have any questions take comments from the public on that you can but it's not required but you might might want to just anyone from the public have any questions or comments uh you want to help us with some of the wording sure so you should if you have you have before you it's a very simple resolution it's basically what it means is it's a motion to reapproved minor subdivision and extend the time period for recording of it for one more year is there such a motion I'll make a motion there's a motion second a second and a roll call Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes Janette Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes celest Luciano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes yes and Dory just uh for formalities just make the record know that I was here for 7:00 not the executive session I missed thank you okay uh the next item on the agenda is public hearing portion of the meeting we have one application to be heard tonight application number 7113 from uh Reyes and Company for an amended site plan with variances this discussion is being continued from our 10 uh October meeting uh welcome I think Mr zaji is outside um so hopefully he's coming in we're ready for you Mike good evening good evening Michael svaj from uh labory svaj and Cohen on behalf of the applicant this is a continued public hearing um I am going to obviously stall my architect is out in the parking lot so um I can break into tune or we can just wait um I did submit uh um last month uh or last meeting we had discussed u a overflow parking Arrangement between the two properties uh since the applicant uh or the principal of the applicant even though there's two different corporations is the same individual um and the applicant will testify to that uh in a moment when uh when he arrives as well he's he's stuck in traffic um but we did uh we did submit that tonight what we're going to do is um and our engineer will be here as well if you have questions but we'll move into architecture then uh the principal of the company will testify and then uh our planner will conclude so what I'd like to do is see my architect show up um but um till she does I apologize no problem Mike um we do have some items we could just talk about uh not so much all of other board business but just to give the board an update we um we have a recommended open space uh plan from the um environmental commission and the Township's consultant um and so we uh are scheduling that for a public meeting discussion meeting for November 6 and um and then if that is acceptable to the board at that night it might be scheduled for a public hearing on Amendment to the master plan to update the uh prior open space plan of the township which is basically an element of the master plan so this would be November six U uh discussion and the planner Barbara H Haskins of Davis for from the U uh Consulting Group for the plan will be here and then on December 4th if it it's all moving well uh it might be considered for a public hearing and after that public hearing by the planning board it might be adopted by the planning board as the open space element of the township of Sparta master plan so that's a very exciting uh undertaking and uh Christine you can probably tell us more about it but it looks like a good product you I think you got copies of it in an email um but it's a lot of reading between now and November and December and it's good good uh good information good mapping are we keeping that meeting Reserve just for that uh uh I'm not sure it's solely for that but we're trying to make it mostly for that right I I think there was one other item maybe the pced no the pdrm to um report uh recommended the ordinance Amendment from Katherine for November 6th I'm not sure about December 4th yet but Mr Collins while we're waiting do you suggest we take five minutes to let their professionals come or maybe move on to other portions of our meeting yeah um well maybe use this time just to do um any other board business or the reports and yeah let's move on um I'd like to save other bit other board business for the end of the meeting so let's move on to um our updates from from our uh various committees so uh Town Council Deputy Mayor bman I'll start with you y uh thank you chairman have an update on the October 8th Town council meeting so uh one item one major item is ordinance 24-15 was approved that is uh with regarding the flood Hazard areas and essentially it was uh a pretty comprehensive update to our flood Hazard area definitions it aims to enhance the flood damage prevention it adds a flood plane administrator which is uh will be a role not a not a formal position but it's a role that our Township engineer Cory Stoner is going to take on and other detail improvements essentially it's required by the njde and they provided the ordinance um the draft ordinance actually to us and we modified it for Sparta's unique situations um it's also required for the issuance of flood insurance so it's really important that we have updated uh ordinance in place that matches the nj's uh model ordinance uh so it passed unanimously and uh we look forward to uh having that in place going forward uh the flood plan FL flood plane administrator will uh essentially have a role before it gets to here they'll be looking for different things um and the uh they'll highlight any kind of concerns and they'll really the njd is the ruling entity on this though but the flood plane administrator will help uh kind of smooth that process out and look for any Flags or signs in there that's all I have for tonight thanks thank youy mayor uh Mr star anything from the environmental commission yes um on just a second I was just wondering there is a component Christine could you uh there's a component in our storm water management and the municipalities were um by the end end of July we were to pass this particular stepping stone in the storm water management plan do you does this ring a bell or do you know anything about the passage of this very important step in complying with the new storm water regulations uh no I could look into it though but I think that's separate from the flood plane and flood damage uh flood zones I just wondered about that um do we have a page on our website for storm water do you know which is required I don't recall yeah is there anything under we're supposed to check all of the outlets and the inlets and everything the DP has a comprehensive summary of both the flood Hazard and the storm water changes so if we as reference if we want on the website to reference that link to their fact fact questions and kind of preliminary or major changes to it um we some I could work with Dory and get that the new storm parts of the new storm water there were towns that were in a lower tier that weren't required to be where we were but we were in the higher tier so we're already compliant in tier a it's the ones that were in tier B that had to come up to the tier a okay so I know we have been in that first tier yeah yeah so so and they're they're compliant those I'm I'm sure they are too um but I know that we um we applied for $25,000 and I believe that we received it so there must have been some things that needed to be implemented so I was just curious about those all right so that's that so I uh do you want me to just finish giving my report it's it's very short right and I think everybody is going to be dazzled and amazed with this this open space and Recreation plan because it really meets I think um what I heard the needs of our community are at this point in time with that other public hearing and the surveys that we did and everything that I've heard since being on the planning board it has many suggestions on ways that we can um protect our natural resources and we can provide more recreational opportunities um and that can all work together um including farmland preserv it's just it's just wonderful but it is long I think it's 124 pages long so start early get the mug get the mug of hot chocolate and get the fire going and and uh you know just eat away at it a few pages a night and there's lots of uh images too that are um great the figures are great so thanks to the the New Jersey Land Conservancy and I do believe it'll probably require most of uh November 6th U meeting um to go through that and I know that Barbara Davis is preparing a presentation and hopefully we'll get a lot of public and a lot of questions suggestions and also the the council will be invited to that as well my understanding yeah uh other um committees or commissions like the recreation uh commission and and everyone we want everyone there it's very important I could also add to it's it's available on our website now right it's uh it's posted out there so if the public wants to look at it in advance too it's they can find on the website anything else Christine thank you just a couple updates from uh the subcommittees Ron uh asked me to uh give the following update the entire master plan subcommittee team has been very very busy extremely busy trying to bring awareness to the community Hub and the community survey some of the things done to date include having a subcommittee Representatives at the hanging with Heroes event Celeste we we saw you there awareness of the survey at the Town Council zoning board environmental meeting environmental meetings uh tap into Sparta article with links to the survey thank you m Erics social media awareness postings making future plans to have Representatives at the farmers market a Township wide email that was I believe uh in everyone's inboxes today um and the subcommittee team asks everyone to understand the importance of the survey in order to help us understand understand what's important to the the people that live in Sparta uh so tell us your thoughts take the survey it's 3 to five minutes of your day uh and you can make a really big difference on how Sparta will move forward into the future uh Miss Luciano told me that there's over 400 uh people that responded or or filled out the survey already so that's fantastic super excited in the first two weeks and you can access this surve at Sparta wwws Sparta plan.com if you don't fill out the www it won't work wwws Sparta plan.com or there is a link on the Township's website which you can access at Spartan nj.org be www dot yes dot yeah um from the minor site uh minor site plan subcommittee we hammered out a bunch of uh op applications we we were very light on September applications we did get a few I believe we got one today which we have not looked at but but uh we did meet with um a prospective new business that we're always happy to have them come in and meet with us um we uh went over some of their signage issues and and we we came to a really great conclusion they're happy uh and they're going to be conforming with with our ordinances so that's fantastic um and uh the minor site plan committee uh and along with r should continue to do uh really great work and I'm I'm very proud to uh of all the members so thank you to to Joan thank you to miss Dumar um and thank you to Ron as well thank you okay uh that concludes our updates from our committees and Town Council um you ready to you ready to start okay let's let's go back to the top of the agenda and and welcome in the folks from uh Raines and Company LLC 61 Sparta AV block 501 lot one all right uh and I appreciate the board's patience um and we are ready to uh resume I'd like to have our next witness uh sworn if if she can yes uh please raise your right hand do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do please state your name and address Karen wchof 504 East Prospect hacketstown New Jersey 07840 Karen Please spell your last name I'm sorry w n as a Nancy S as as in Sam c h h o as an and then f as in Frank thank you and Karen have you testified before this board before not this board no okay so maybe if you and Mike would go over some qualifications that doesn't have to be a lot because I recognize you but we'll we'll uh um yes so Karen if if you can just let uh this board know uh where you got your degree um just status of your license and your experience in testifying in matters of architecture and other land use boards in New Jersey sure uh I have a master's degree in architecture from Boston architectural College I have also a uh associates degree in interior design I am licensed as a interior designer in the state of New Jersey and I'm also registered architect in the state of New Jersey all right then you've testified in land use matters in other towns besides support yes I have all right um just a couple of quick examples just for the record sure I've been before uh Byam I've been before Clinton I've been before uh um let's see ogdenburg yes hacketstown yes the board will accept your qualifications as a registered architect and licensed interior designer pleas please go ahead Karen um you were charged with kind of doing the interior architecture for these two hopefully restaurant spaces correct yes I was all right what went into the thought process um and perhaps when I do this I mean you've designed other architecture I mean excuse me other restaurant space correct yes I have um how would you compare these two spaces to some of the other work you've done these two spaces um I would consider to be uh small restaurant spaces they not very large and they're definitely the smallest that I've designed thus far all right so knowing that and and some of the other uh factors that run or associated with this property what went into uh your design and and what did you end up coming up with sure so the owner approached us to design these two empty spaces that he's had for quite some time on site and he had had some interest from others to open restaurants in these two units so we prepared some general layouts for restaurants based on the interest that he had had previously so the front restaurant here this is the one that's in the front corner as you approach the building this one is designed to be more of a um Deli SL uh Market style restaurant which was of Interest where you come in and you'll be able to order and there'll be some seating limited seating here in the middle on on high top tables and this is all kitchen on the side so on the as you enter on the right that's really kitchen and service the only customer area is this limited area here in the rear restaurant and which we call restaurant one on the plan on this restaurant it's a little bit of a larger space this one was again kind of done for a uh order at a counter type of restaurant so you come in you order at the counter and then you can take your food and either sit at a table or go home all right and what was the U seating capacity of restaurant one as you've laid it out so the seating capacity right now is at about 16 okay um and restaurant two would you pose there I would say that the seating capacity here is eight in terms of how it's designed so two per table okay um and the restaurant to which you've done um you've in your work as an architect you've architect you've laid it out so it's really not going to be conducive to kind of a sit-down Place correct this this style of restaurant the way it's laid out really wouldn't be conducive to somebody coming in and having any sort of dinein style restaurant service table service restaurant what and again you go through the measurements and things like that and sometimes for board members and myself it's hard to kind of conceptualize It restaurant 2 what what would be a comparable space that the board members may be familiar with I would equate this to a small Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks a very small sized one would be uh basically the equivalent of this size restaurant um it's it's pretty small if you think about the space we're in here it wouldn't even come into this area at all it would fit within this space that we're all sitting in and you'd have extra space as well okay and then uh restaurant one up top with the the additional seats again is and maybe it's my view but those three tables to the top of the the page uh and by the way we should for the record what what are you presenting And discussing with the board what I think you had submitted this correct yes this was submitted last week this is a100 with a revision date of 1010 2024 all right and that's the same thing that was in fact hand delivered here to the town correct all right um the space up top it looks kind of tight those tables correct yes that's just your general spacing the closest you could really have them so you couldn't couldn't really fit any more than what we're showing okay um the space the layout and everything else with the restaurant um and the kitchen areas all compliant with the applicable fire codes and and none of that should be an issue uh if the board were to Grant an approval for this space correct everything that is currently designed meets um and and is there on site meets the fire code as it stands all right um but for and we'll hear from the the client in a moment um in the restaurant work you've done in the past I mean would this be the most desirable layout for this space um in terms of the way we're laying out each unit I think that this is probably the best you can get out of each particular unit and in terms of you mean putting restaurants in general into the space um putting restaurants in general it's probably not you're you're most desirable to have one back here from a marketing perspective I mean you don't have the greatest uh Road exposure and traffic exposure and pedestrian exposure up here this one definitely does but again this has been um some of the only interest that's been presented to the owner thus far for these units okay uh any signage Associated where you ask to do any exterior signage on the building or anything for either one of these uh restaurants or how is signage going to be handled there will be signs on the exterior of the building um over the front door all right and it's your intention again if we get the approval uh to have that signage compliant with the Township's requirements correct okay um I don't have anything further for Karen if um Mr chairman if people have questions by all means sure uh we'll start with Mr Simmons uh Mr chairman uh just referring to my report of September 30th 2024 uh a lot of the comments were addressed by the applicants engineer at the last hearing uh with regards to the architecture uh just a couple items I know on the plans you do have the free excuse me the facade signs uh shown for each one uh is there an intent to add sign each on the freestanding sign there has been no intent thus far to add anything beyond um what's already there but maybe put the restaurant name on the existing sign that's there but not to change the existing sign in any way okay and I had brought this up at the last meeting while the survey that was presented labeled that freestanding sign as a quote unquote billboard the intent is just to advertise on that for the businesses that are on this subject property correct correct because when we think of a billboard we think of other businesses advertising that's not your case no that will not be the case okay did you indicate that uh there was existing fire suppression or that this would require additional sprinkler or fire suppression uh no there isn't any and it does not require it as it is under the square footage uh that the IBC States for fire suppression okay and if you had two units the way you're describing them on your plan that a100 uh would that require additional HVAC units and if so where would they be located no they won't so these already have HVAC units that are in this property and we wouldn't need to change any to meet the needs of the restaurant so they have exposed duct work and traditional HVAC systems already in place okay and that's all I have on architecture Mr chairman Mr Simmons thank you you you'd mentioned that we know from um from a marketing or visibility perspective that this was it's not an ideal location for restaurants um I don't know what the what specific tenants have been interested in the site but do you have um or can you provide a little bit more details about what kind of impact the architectural setup as far as seating and not being a sit down restaurant has on kind of traffic um as far as like foot traffic into the restaurant turnover is it going to be mostly a pickup is is it going to be an online ordering mobile ordering you know situation um so how does the architectural kind of layout how do the programming of the building impact the the kind of use of the site sure I can't answer exactly the the type of um restaurants that were proposed to Maybe the owner to go in here but in general I'll talk about the architecture and and what it implies so the architecture here for instance the layout that's in uh restaurant 2 which is the front restaurant when you're entering into the site this one is more conducive of what I would call um a small Market takeout so all prepackaged Goods for the most part pre-made Foods maybe some fresh to go not necessarily um uh any sort of heavy cooking going on this would um also perhaps here we have shelving across the back so if you had just think of like an Italian Market or some sort of Market where you've got uh packaged Goods also ready to go so it would be mixture of packaged and and prepared and this obviously would be more conducive people coming in ordering or picking up and then leaving and some people may choose to stay and eat but not to uh a greater extent in this particular one also might be a restaurant that does catering so that would be another thing so again catering where people are getting orders and maybe they're even delivering these orders you know uh to their customers so that would be another use for either restaurant really is more of the the catering which seems to be the more successful way that a lot of restaurants are making money in New Jersey right now is through kind of larger orders going out the rear restaurant has a little bit more seating than the front and this one uh would be a little bit more of cooking going on I foresee this one being more of a traditional kitchen and having a little bit more of um you order you come in and then again a little bit better seating so you'll have a little bit more people here sitting down and eating before they leave so maybe not as in anout is here but definitely um still probably a little bit more in andout than a traditional um table service restaurant okay just to follow up on the plan I mean neither one of these use microphone please microphone microphone oh I'm sorry I'm sorry uh just to follow up on the planner's question um you don't envision nether one of these to have waiter or waitress service or anything like that correct correct okay so do you think with the way that the restaurants have been set up there's probably especially for the front restaurant a higher turnover of customers coming in and out whether it be a like you said a specialty Market or even a pizza place is that something that's going to have higher turnover than a sit down restaurant uh yeah I would say in general you probably get a little bit higher turnover but then again sit down restaurants do also do takeout so they also have quite a bit of turnover even with the sitdown restaurant so in some ways um you know I'm not going to say that it's 100% one or the other but it will depend on the success of the restaurant of course and what they're selling okay thank you very much that's all I had for the architect okay thank you Mr um want to open it up to De celesti want to this off nothing for this witness thank you m Burke Ferman just have one quick question on the amended sight plan that was submitted um if you look at the square footage and it'll say find it now um one per 50 square feet of service in eating area does that include the bathrooms no that does not area no that does not so the 700 would be for because then it has 700 kitchen correct so the service area is with the kitchen yeah so the service and eating area is the front part here the kitchen is and then separate if you're looking at restaurant to here this would be the service area where I'm kind of highlighting with my finger and then this would be your kitchen area and then here about the this is service the bathroom is not counted cuz it's not a where if you have to have a parking spot per certain square footage and there's no square footage counted for bathrooms it's not considered a service area the bathroom part we exclude all of that in calculations when we do square footage so for specifically for restaurants the requirement excludes kitchen storage and it only includes the service and eating area it's intended to capture basically the seats and the capacity of the restaurant rather than the entire square footage should traditionally be for most parking standards but for this parking ratio it's intended to capture that that seating capacity area Okay so there is some missing square footage here then because if you have total Area 1400 square feet 700 kitchen 700 eating area so that's not the total square footage of the restaurant that is the net square footage yes so we you know in architecture we do net and gross yes and we take that take that out yeah that's it so I'll uh continue that line of thinking then so for restaurant number two uh are you saying then that you're not including the entire right half of that space except for the kitchen area next to the bathroom that whole prep area uh restaurant number two sorry this one up here oh number two this part yeah to the right there that whole the whole right section that says this is the kitchen prep area yeah this is all included in the kitchen square footage so this is the kitchen square footage here and I can check it just to tell you okay so here just in here in restaurant 2 we're looking at which is um we basically have in this little area here on quarter inch scale we've got about 13 about 13 ft and you've got about 207 feet and that will give you about 350 square ft that's all you've got here it's very small area so uh the right section this little area here if you don't count the vestibule you don't count the bathrooms you don't count the utility or anything else just this little tiny area here Dean do you have the plan in front of you do you have a copy of the architectural plan yeah so if you look at the right side table actually look at the table to right to the right of the plan y it includes those breakdowns actually yeah see that so the kitchen back of house that has 650 is that just the rear section where it says back of house kitchen area y this part here this whole area Okay so that is the whole section not just the rear rectangle correct it's this whole area it just fit better there but yes okay okay okay uh next question is restaurant number one yes uh I see a discrepancy if you look at the diagram it shows 16 seats yes you look at the calculations Under restaurant number one counts counts 12 seats okay restaurant one uh not the parking I'm sorry the next to it the uh occupancy over here occupancy yeah it has assembly with fixed seating it says 12 seats 12 seats but the diagram shows I see that yes yes yep that's old so that would be um that would need to be modified because that does say 12 seats so it's modified to 16 or is it yeah because we're showing 16 seats here is the plan to include 16 seats I think that this one is kind of questionable because of the tightness of here and next to the service counter so I think you probably would be better off with only 12 in fact you know you might even want to make them two seeders you know where you could kind of break them apart and redo them because this one to me is a little bit close here and it's going to be a little awkward if people if you want to make a line and then say you want to have a condiment counter or something like that down on the side so I mean my preference would be to eliminate it and just to do the 12 so is that I let the owner yeah what what implications it's fine yeah he's fine with that okay what are the implications of the occupancy calculations right now it's the whole building is 47 but obviously it's excluding four four seats yeah so if we remove this table and we put more of like a an area here again for condiments and then we take this table out and then we would be back at that being the proper the proper number that's shown on the plan okay yeah so that is that what you're seeed plan he said that's fine okay yeah okay one last question back to restaurant number two can you just talk a little bit more about again the right side where it says prep area behind it has Deli display cases but they're against the far right wall which is quite a distance from where the patrons would be can you describe what would happen in that large space there that sure I think that it's it's kind of more the display cases are really more upfront obviously it's kind of the arrows got a little bit mixed up but display here but Deli counter here and the idea in the middle is that it's a prep area so that you can kind of have all your Refrigeration units and things in the back here and then this would be your your prep counter in the middle and then up front on facing the uh service center and the in the client interaction that would be where you could display your food so you could have refrigeration cases if needed or you could have reaching cases and you could obvious they also have just unrefrigerated cases for things that didn't require refrigeration like Bakery and other items like that okay thank you I should have began with thank you for your testimony to in the beginning I jumped right into my question but thank you no problem yeah questions no no questions uh as uh de mayor said thank you very much for your testimony tonight I just have a few sure um in the top right corner uh it looks like a staircase that would be leading is that the kitchen to the left of it yes so this is this is a uh exterior staircase and it's existing as is and it would go directly into the kitchen and that's for loading load unloading and employees only yes correct is the same with the staircase that's underneath it leading to the other Kitchen yes correct this is employees only uh earlier during uh Mr Simmons's question uh he brought up uh fire suppressant you said that the both of the restaurants are uh don't are are fall under a certain threshold that some kind of governing body says can you expand that little sure there's the international building code and that is the adopted code here in New Jersey they have a section which basically requires um fire suppression in certain situations in this particular use group the uh limit is 5,000 sare ft and we're under 5,000 square ft therefore we're not required to have fire suppression is that for the total building is under 5,000 square F feet or just the two restaurants it's the fire rated areas so since these are fire rated from one another and then also these are fire rated so the pharmacy has its own it's uh and then you have restaurant one and restaurant 2 and they are each separate fire areas very much okay if there's no further questions from the day it's opening up for uh the public for any not comments testimony questions for this witness is there anyone from the public that would like to question this witness hi Margie Murphy 9 PUO Parkway raise your right hand do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do thank you uh are you have any plans I I didn't see any of the architecture to make it anything in a village type um architecture any colors any thing that would blend with the rest of the town and would you have any type of food that you're going to put there um is it a chain do you have any any idea at this point in time uh so to answer the first question there's no proposed changes to the facade other than than to put signage up otherwise we're going to keep the facade as it is today so there's no plans to change that um in terms of the second question there aren't tenants yet signed up for these spaces so there's no specific food but from my understanding it would be um single ownership not necessarily chain stores and are they connected those two in the back can you go from one to the other or they're totally separate they're totally separate there is no pass through any of these units to get to the other unit unit and the parking I know I missed that last time the parking would be cuz it's pretty tight as it is but I understand that if there's an the owner has the other building it could be shared is that yeah he'll testify a moment but that's what he okay all right thank you hi Mark Scott sworn on this matter probably but we'll do it again sure um do you swear friend to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truths help you God yes sir um is there going to be any limit on the signage that will go on this building for the restaurant is it I know we're working on a master plan and I think the town is trying to bring it back to the way the the town looks I mean if I mean if you were to put a Buffalo Wild Wings and a Hooters there I don't think that's really what we want on that corner a big Hooter sign so would this be would there be signage limits we would we would agree that um this sign please use your microphone I'm sorry can you please use your mic oh I'm sorry thank you uh we would agree that the signage would be in compliance with whatever the uh relevant or applicable uh Township standards are at that time okay but but the standards we're operating off of our 1984 standards so I I I understand what you're saying I we can't do anything but follow what the law is at that time if obviously between now and and whenever uh this space were to get built out um if those standards change we would be compliant with that maybe that was more of a question for the planning board rather than you thank you thank you Mr Scott anyone else from the public for this witness but Mr savaji U first of all the ordinances about signage are not 1984 yeah I and second of all the witness testified that the only changes are that the each restaurant would have the typical sign in front of the restaurant and a possible change in the name on the freestanding sign that's correct a billboard right that's right it's not so so basically what you're saying to us and the board and the public is this particular building will basically look on the outside exactly as it looks now correct and in your opinion as an architect based upon its materials its colors and its roof and its Windows is this building consistent with the Town Center design standards I believe so it has really really lovely um kind of extra windows on top it's double story space inside and it has um a little bit more uh personality and character that it's not just a box it's not just a typical kind of strip mole box to it it has character and it has um more fitting uh look to go with the the overall look of the town and was this building re redeveloped at the same time has the building next door with the similar materials that I'm not sure and so what are the colors and materials on the outside of this building the colors um I don't think I have a colored picture to show you but let me just check let me just see if I have a picture just so I can show it yeah it's like a light green a I don't have it colored but I do have the facade elevation okay okay and what why don't you describe the elevation yeah then refer to the sheet that this was part of their submission correct this was part of the original submission this is co4 this particular one has a revision date of I believe that says 9:15 2024 so this um particular building has a mix of different facades it's not just one one so we have brick we have uh a stucco and then we have uh basically a shingle SL siding so um I should say asphalt shingle and then we have clapboard siding so it has a nice mix of materials as it is it's not just one material you have the brick going up to a water table that goes underneath the larger Windows you have uh a varied roof line so the roof line isn't just one we have a varied roof line with alternate roofs and we also have some perpendicular to the other and again like I mentioned we do have these taller Windows which are open inside so you can see up and give extra light from an interior Mr Collins not to get too loyly on this but our planner uh who will be testifying in a little bit here uh has taken a series of photographs with drone with his drone he can authenticate them now but they do do give pictures of the building from pretty much all four certainly all three sides that's fine me you can present it when he that's fine and um just to add to it you'll see the photographs in color but it's it's basically kind of a green and a gold color currently any other questions for Miss shop may I ask one more if the public is done or is yours okay um in the back of the building is the loading area the loading zone and I believe at the last meeting it was brought up that loading would that parking spot number 24 would be in between the loading zone and would have to go through there but I don't see an opening over here so correct me if I'm wrong but from the loading Zone you'd have to go up that Steep Hill around the corner to one of these two stairwells um on the right hand side uh would it make more sense to put that uh by parking spot 23 or 22 that are right near the stairwell okay so we're on sheet CO3 correct is what you're looking at oh you're still on that one okay so but you're talking about these parking spaces correct over here 23 this one and then you saying how they would access the building right so you'd have to go up that steep incline around parking spot 23 and go in between 22 and 23 into the stairwells does that make sense to you as an architect depending if you if you're going to load I mean these ones these restaurants to be honest I'm not sure can since we don't have them actually rented but often smaller restaurants they actually pick up their own food and they bring it in a van so it would be more of a you go to Restaurant Depot you go get what you need to get and you bring it in in either a van or a truck so a lot of the people might just choose to kind of Park on that very end it's not a big large truck so on that end space and be able to come right back in so they would take up a parking space instead of the loading zone they could well they could use either one but again I'll kind of defer to the engineer on the site plan but in terms of as long as there's access to these spaces from an architectural standpoint you know that's what's most important important that somebody can get to the stairs and can go up the stairs so actually I and those are existing so it's not like you're creating anything new okay yeah these are already there I have a follow-up question too related to the signs just to clarify you're not seeking approval for the signs tonight as part of this application you'll come back to the site plan waiver subcommittee when you have the tenants figured out I believe if if we meet with your Town's uh stand I think we could just get a zoning permit for that correct Mr Collins I think that the way it works in Sparta is for the new signage you go for minor site plan subcommittee for okay the but if they're fully conforming it can be approved by the minor site plan subcommittee okay and aign permit but you did show where they are and where they're going to be and you're you're you're saying they're going to be complying so that's good so any other questions thank you Miss thank you very much thank you uh all right I'd now like to call our next uh witness good evening everyone thank you for your time sir you have to come sit with Mike and you well we'll swear you have you sworn very excited he's can't wait to start there please raise your right hand you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truths help you God I do please state your name and address camel yes 259 High Crest Drive West Milford New Jersey 07480 thank you please go ahead um okay uh let's start right what what's your connection with uh the applicant romez and Company LLC uh I am an owner uh it's an LLC 50/50 me and my wife okay uh and when did you guys purchase the property at 61 spart Avenue I do believe 2009 okay um and if you remember when you bought in 2009 uh how was it being used at that time uh at the time I purchased it and I sold it to uh uh like a cleaner and two years later he gave it back to me it was full of mold and I went ahead and I uh demolish the entire building and rebuilt it in brand new okay and then from that point forward were you just leasing the spa the interior space out yes I leased there was three units the big one is the sparta Pharmacy uh the second one was Flex nutrition which sold vitamins and health food stuff and the third one was uh The Cutting Zone which was a hair salon okay um and when did the hair salon and the nutrition store vacate well the hair salon around a year and a half ago and the flex nutrition almost four maybe five years okay uh and and um the spaces have remained vacant since the departure of both tenants correct all right um now you also own the adjacent property or the property to If you're looking at from the road from the right uh 57 Sparta Avenue is also under camel Enterprises which is also an LLC that's on between me and my wife and I do believe I purchased it I think 2016 maybe 2015 uh when Radio Shack went out of business okay and I renovated that building the same way uh like the other building with the facade so to make them conformant with like the look then that would is the um um the design standards that the town had correct correct correct um and what is going on at uh camale Enterprises I mean how's that property currently being used the downstairs is occupied by Sparta orthopedic and the upstairs there were two existing Apartments uh when I purchased the property and uh they are rented out uh to two ladies with one or two kids each okay um the two residential uh Apartments upstairs how many bedrooms in each I do believe one bedroom each yeah okay um now the um spaces that you're you're trying to use at 61 Sparta Avenue um During the period of time they've been vacant what kind of interest if any have you gotten in terms of potential tenants uh mostly restaurants uh everybody wants to have a restaurant in there uh just for your information I also own Green Life Market in Andover uh you know and I've been operating that very successfully since 2016 and we do a lot of food preparations in there and uh you know to also go back to some of the questions I heard from the public in regards or uh the board members uh about trucks coming in and out of the property we we deliver to other stores that we own we have three stores and we deliver them through Vans we prepare everything everything refrigerated and we just deliver it so um those two restaurants are small and um I don't anticipate that they're going to be busy all the time uh hopefully there will be you know and that's uh I try to bring to the almost every town that I you know I participate and whatever the board is looking for we try to comply with all the rules and the regulations that you guys have now when Karen was testifying as to the restaurant space that that smaller space that was kind of like a takeout yes would that is that something comparable to what you have going on in Andover right now yes all right and you would Envision the same thing going on here at that space yes well the the first one which was the next nutrition place we had a Portuguese guy that wanted to to open a Portuguese Grill and at one point he's like maybe we'll just have it as a takeout you know so he anticipates most of his business to be takeout more than you know sit down uh you know the other one I was thinking about a middle eastern restaurant you know like a gyro grill or something like that most of those even if you go to pison New Jersey most of those are you pick up the phone you order they'll tell you half an hour you come in you pick it up and you go that's that's what I do personally sometimes um and as we sit here right now do you have any potential tenants lined up the Portuguese guy keeps texting me and saying are you approved yet that's that's what it is so he's waiting very patiently he's very excited about it and I I think it would be a good addition to spart the township you know to have a different uh you know di of restaurant you know that's I don't know and and for for the record he would take the the space in the back is that the space he's interested that's that's the space he's looking at all right um and when we talk I I again right now be a a lunch dinner place um most of it possibly will open after 11 o' in the morning and possibly stays later uh that's when the part of Pharm he possibly closes so there's UL parking in there and the same thing with Sparta Orthopedic most of the time he closed at 3:00 sometimes 4:00 uh and there's you know there's a lot of parking you know whenever you come in even even with the hair salon uh we didn't have that problem because people come in they make appointments they take it and leave all right now um because you own the the property next door um you'd be willing to agree that any overflow to the extent it was necessary would be available at 57 SP absolutely yes and and you and I had kind of put together a u uh parking easement uh which you reviewed and we sent to the town I mean to the extent and I don't mean to put Mr Collins on the spot but I mean at least in principle you'd be willing to make that as a condition of of any approval that 50 7 and 61 uh could be used almost in combination with yes absolutely no problem now uh with that it raises the question you know uh with the space at at 57 I mean is that you know is is the parking lot always full over there no not at all I I stopped by you know at least three times a month over there and uh there's plenty of parking in fact sometimes there's no parking at all I mean it's empty okay um and uh there was a question last time about you because your upstairs tenants uh may have children I mean is there a a defined playground area or anything else in the back of that property where these kids would there wasn't but I I noticed that they had you know like some um like some toys in the back and I barely don't see anybody there except the weekends once in a while but uh you know usually the mother is with them I've barely seen her like in the past year maybe once or twice okay um now in the engineer in his report also noted that um and expressed some concerns about the uh landscaping and the maintenance of the Landscaping at 61 spart Avenue um I know you've looked at that report um to the extent necessary you're prepared to um do whatever is required to to bring that Landscaping back and in conformance with I guess the original site plan yes absolutely all right um and also I needed to address a question that was asked about water drainage that was redesigned when I redid the property you know when we demolished everything it was redesigned by Fitzpatrick and everything was approved with the town on all the water dra drainage there was a small holding tank and and then it will uh overflow I guess somewhere I don't know but it was approved by the town when we built when we rebuilt it the whole entire parking lot was redesigned as far as the water flow I I heard that last time so I figured I can just answer that question okay I don't have anything further thank you Mr Simmons do you have any questions for Mr Yen uh with with regards to the uh cross easement between the two buildings I guess the next door building 57 spart Avenue when I was out there to visit the site uh on the wall of the building that faces 61 spart Avenue I believe it was the the Chiropractic or Orthopedic person every one of those spaces as I recall it had a sign for his use only with regards to U which spaces would be available to one of the tenants of these restaurants where would you propose that those spaces be located well number one there was no agreement with me with the lease with him that he would assign these specifically for him he possibly chose that on his own and you know maybe to attract attention as far as signage is concerned um there's plenty of parking also in the back because the the two ladies that live there they work and there's always empty spots in the back we can locate some of them to the back and leave some for him in the front maybe we can just take half and put it in the back of the building okay um with regards to the drainage in the back in the area that you've shown on the plans is the loading zone it's like in a hole if you well did I understand you to say that that particular area is it basically like a dry well I do believe so yes all the way at the bottom of the Ste driver yes yes do you still have a copy of those plans I do not recall if I do but I'm sure I if I do I can forward them to you okay most likely they possibly in my email okay and if not I'll drop a cabi to the town okay those are my main questions this applicant Mr chairman and just to let you know I I didn't have since 2009 till now I never had any problem with the water at the bottom of that steep driveway we never had it like come up and flood and it goes into the basements never speaking of the basement though uh on the architect's plans they show the stairway going into the two proposed restaurants I'm trying to remember but isn't there a a walk-in door in the basement in the back by that loading zone uh no the loading zone is all the way at the bottom that access the basement and uh there is a door into the basement there access to either Lo either location but there is a door into the basement yes yes there a door I don't think that shows on the architect's plans um yeah are there stairwell is there a stairwell from the basement to the pharmacy or the only only the pharmacy only the pharmacy yeah there's another empty space on the side uh that I keep some paperwork and stuff like that it's not supposed to be used for you know anything else so these two restaurants would not use any part of the basement um not at this point no but if you know if they need to use it then they have to come back to the town and get whatever approvals they need but that no there is no plan for us to let them use it no and I and I don't think and this may be more of a question for the architect I don't think there's anything on this plan that shows from the restaurants to get down to the basement no no access no access okay thank you thank you Mr Simmons thank you um we have a curious question that came up at the last meeting and that was there seem to be quite a few cars parked in the back during in the day and even stacked meaning one behind the other like a garage who parks in the back during the day and why why are so many cars stacked there uh I spoke to the pharmacist I heard that uh question when you guys asked it last week and I spoke to the pharmacist and she says maybe there was some deliveries sometimes they have some meetings at at downstairs uh you know maybe they're doing training for other emplo EMP because they multiple pharmacies for the pharmacy yes and I asked I asked the pharmacist at the time if he is going to have this many employees go rent across the street from Big Lot you know spaces that allows you to park that many cars this is not allowed okay well but that you think it was the pharmacy not not because there's no other tenant operating therey yes so so it's a little tight back there and it's unusual because of its grade um do you think you could live with one restaurant and just in the front and not the restaurant in the back um try to and try to get a retail tenant for the back restaurant because the parking spaces in front of that are very shallow the aisle is down to 20 feet I think so when you back out of the park parking lot by that restaurant it's very difficult to get in and out so you're actually having what you're reaching a cap on your your parking that's why you're talking about four parking spaces being um overflow so what do you think about that what what do you think about one restaurant instead of two and trying to say improve the parking lot configuration of both Lots well what about when the pharmacy lease expires next October maybe I'll turn the entire building to a restaurant that that's an option that then you then you when you can do things like that and sometimes you can do them by minor site plants subcommittee review but the problem you're running up against is that the parking requirements for restaurant uh are not we're not initially built into this site plan so you're you're basically reaching caps because of your your parking yeah but other business no matter which one you put in there they always require parking and I've I've had several tenants that came in from uh like massage therapists to you know like medical they all concerned about the parking in it so no matter who comes in I can't rent the space and that's why I was thinking like if see but that's a reason that's a reason reason to to take both your lots to and I I don't know if it's feasible but basically modernize your parking arrangement with clear clearer striping with perhaps fill that back backyard of the main building so that you have a loading space at grade with the building you know things that would give you compliant parking but right now we're you're really having trouble with some of those spaces are not complying as to size uh they're not complying as to grade uh and and yet you're asking for two restaurants yes you're trying to restrict the number of tables but you're not dealing with the constraint you're running up against which is uh the parking uh needs for the uses so I think I think it's something to think about and I think you know the fact that you own both Lots uh gives you the ability to modernize the parking and update the spaces so they're fully compliant as to size or width or grade and doesn't sound like the downstairs is used that much for for um access from the rear um so I'm not sure you need to have uh that kind of rear yard the way you you've got it especially if you if you reconfigure your entire two lot parking Arrangement so did you did you appear at the planning board in 2009 yes for the uh change at that time yes and uh and that was for both Lots wasn't it no that was for the sparta the 61 he didn't buy the other lot until lot until 2016 and so but when you bought the other lot that's what's what's convenient now is that you have the ability to you you do have an easement across your lot you you do have your existing driveway cut you have to live with um but it's an opportunity to create a modern parking Arrangement that works for both buildings and U you're getting closer but those spaces in the back they're not compliant so you and really can't have stack I'm I'm not criticizing the pharmacy for what they did to have people park in the back that was their day that they needed some parking and they made a A wise choice to stack some of their employees but that can't be a permanent parking Arrangement that correct you can't count those so corre so you you're trying to do a little bit here but it's also it's kind of a situation where you you're you're restaurant seating arrangement even at a low end is triggering a a parking waiver at least um and the S the sizes and space arrangements for those spaces don't comply so the board would have to give relief from the size and from the grade and you you could do something about that so I I I would be willing to do that um I do believe the sparta Pharmacy I mean the sparta Orthopedic mentioned that he might be retiring in a year uh maybe a year and a half and at that point I do believe that I would have the opportunity you know depending on which tenant to come in maybe we'll come in and rearrange the the whole entire parking space maybe I can you know like as you suggested maybe instead of two restaurants we'll have one restaurant the problem is how do you connect them both together that means one of the retail spaces has to be a full kitchen and then the other one has to be all tables uh so my idea right now what I'm thinking about doing is the smaller space will be a Take Out restaurant with a very small kitchen and we would prepare most of it at the green life market and bring the prepared food there and then the other one is Portuguese he already thought about just having it as a takeout so I don't I don't anticipate that we're going to have a lot of parking issues to be honest well but the problem that you have is that the the ordinance does require a better parking Arrangement if you're going to have two restaurants so just think about it try to look at your configuration I don't see a problem with you combining your two parking lots for purposes of a overall site plan I I don't CR I'm not criticizing the proposed easen I think that that's a good idea but I'm what I'm really saying is it it makes sense to actually reconfigure these two parking lots for example there shouldn't be any perpendicular parking against the orthopedic building that ought to be parallel so you should have parallel you you should have a driveth through to the back uh without you know the space is limited between the two buildings and you do have an easement there that you have to maintain so you could modernize each one of your parking spaces to be a full fully compliant parking space and then figure that count as your maximum parking and then use that to back into how many seats you can have in your restaurant but right now you're you're you're not compliant so how do we get you how do you get closer to full compliance with parking with with the seating lowering the seating from I do believe she said she mentioned Kon said from 12 to 8 all right she was going 6 to 12 but that was already in the counts 16 16 to 12 was in the counts and and what I'm really saying is you can't count those spaces that are proposed in the back that are not compliant so and you do have you do have a variance when you increase the the coverage from 70 I think it's 70.5 to 71.5 something like that just just putting in putting in more pavement is parking variant on this site uh and yet if you looked at the overall two two lots maybe it's not 70% maybe it's more compliant maybe you could actually reduce the coverage so but you're you're you you have this problem not and it is it is that it doesn't comply with the ordinance if you drop it from 12 to 8 would that help I don't know I think what the problem is we trying to count spaces that don't really work and we can't count those so for example the ones in the back I think it's the grest like six or 8% or something like that they should be I don't know is there a standard for grade for parking Dave I think it's like 6% normally normally on a a cross slope like that usually the the steepest grade we like is a 5% grade and one of the reasons for that is if you actually parked on the spaces that he's got shown on the steeper part uh with 5% you could open up the driver's side door and hold it and get out I'm afraid if somebody parked on that steep slope they trip the lever on their door and it slam right in the car right next to them it's that it's that steep it's more than 5% I mean I I I I I don't want to have you change your whole site I'm I'm really saying you're you're bumping up against the cap you're over a cap okay you're over a cap on on the number of seats at the restaurants and so you you have the ability to just stay as you are which is retail you have some ability to perhaps have one restaurant and try to keep your parking Arrangement maybe have those four spaces parallel well I don't know I I don't know where you want to put them but the front yard of the orthopedic could be easily used for the four spaces that you're you're adding but it needs it needs some a better it needs a better Arrangement and you're you're pushing too much on the restaurant use I think so what do you guys suggest I mean one restaurant I'm suggesting One Restaurant I don't I don't know what the board thinks but but I'm I'm suggesting to you that this Arrangement doesn't meet your parking your parking does not satisfy this and you know you can ask for waivers you can ask for Relief you can ask for Relief on the variance for the coverage increase I think that that's a hard sell but you're the you're the applicant so if you want to push it but it seems like there's better ways to try to comply with the ordinance and just have one and one is just to have retail and with that if I do one restaurant do I have to do the cross eement I think you I don't know but it seems like you do have to still have it because you have you're having a parking uh compliance count number too you you really you can't count a space that doesn't comply and So you you're the one you know your architect has to help you demonstrate that without increasing coverage you can have complying parking count on the lot in question now you're saying I want to substitute for from the adjacent lot um that can be done but it's complicated okay so so maybe you're better off going retail in one of the spaces the rear space for example and restaurant in the other maybe you have to reconfigure the bathrooms to do that um gentlemen if you don't mind I'm going to interrupt for just a minute um officer Morris is here he's our our traffic and safety expert and he is uh on duty presently and he has to go actually do his full-time job so uh Mr Morris do we want to come to the microphone and just give a quick update based on uh your memo and and your opinion on the matter uh Corporal please raise your right hand do you swear a firm that tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do please go ahead Corporal uh just based off the memo I Supply everyone here um it's no obvious the parking is an issue he's even saying it's an issue as well by going adjacent to his property um I didn't answer in that in my memo just be that was never an option um I'll speak on that really quick uh you know there would have to be some kind of safety measure Crossing that active driveway for both that driveway is for both uh businesses there um the orthopedic is open till 8:00 at night um not two three four uh so you do have traffic there uh when um I did state in my memo I believe when those all three businesses were up and running we had a parking issue then uh last night I just happened to be in the parking lot around 6:45 there was 10 vehicles in the main parking lot and there just SP of Pharmacy um there were vehicles in the back uh I I would highly recommend not parking Vehicles behind Orthopedic where residential property is uh there's a safety measure there um pulling out into the traffic it's a state road it's not a back road one lane it's double lane on each side pulling out there is uh an issue I understand this building it's been said many times by their attorney that this is what it's zoned for it was 20 years ago traffic has increased a th% and it's just the populated area that close to the intersection and I just do not see two restaurants coming in there you know like like Mr Colin said maybe different businesses would be better um with uh restaurants come in that's where delivery comes you might not say there's going to be delivery there's door Dash Uber Eats what have you um but you know you have to account for an employees you know it's just obviously the parking is an issue it's a tight area it's not safe to have the two restaurants there and especially using the property adjacent Crossing from one property to another on a busy D driveway for both businesses I'm going to agree with Mr colins as far as having one restaurant instead of two as long as you leave the other one as retail so I'll go for one restaurant and leave the other one as retail however the question is and they part of Pharmacy leaves would I be able to open that as a restaurant and not come back in front of the board again you know to proceed well on on on that score what what's happening is restaurants have a different parking standard than retail and so that's why you're even here this on this application so you have to try to address you have to be compliance question you can Mark Kur but hold on one second I just want to understand I want him to understand that he's he's actually asking for relief for because you have restaurants so if you can fully comply with your parking on the lot you can do restaurant that's allow I I agree with you as far as one restaurant I'm okay with that whatever the if it if it's going to make you know uh traffic Hazard and can to make problems I don't want to do that so I will I will agree that I'll keep the back one where Flex nutrition is as a restaurant and keep the other one for retail so we don't have to you know I'm suggesting the other way around I'm suggesting that the parking spaces in the front of the building by Newton PARTA Road are shallow it's actually the the aisle it was approved that way but it is an aisle that is 20 ft in width instead of 20 24 ft so so those are not that appropriate for people visiting a restaurant at that location it's probably better to have the restaurant in the it's much smaller I don't think by the time you put the kitchen in there I that that may be a good reason to do it see especially if you were to do it as you're saying if if it was uh a Green Market type of P out where you deliver and prepare food that basically gets taken out out and you don't have seats that reduces your parking requirement you know you're the one triggering the parking you don't even know what tenant you want yet and you're triggering the parking problem because of seats I apologize Mr Collins but Corporal Morris probably does have to go to work go back to work so other question he get paid now be if I was yes yes I don't think we need to be litigating all this right now but uh Corporal um it's heavy traffic right now is there an increased number of accidents in that current intersection coming out of that driveway as we speak or is it have you seen an increase in it or is what's compared to other accidents or incident reports that are filed not specifically coming out of that driveway um in the intersection yes there's accidents there regularly f up up to the light correct but not coming in coming out of there um if we do it's it's it's rare it's it's fender benders just because the amount of traffic and the congestion um I think a lot of times I've witnessed personally cars trying to make the left to go south on 181 and ultimately have they can't so they make the right and I don't know where they go but okay but yeah I mean the intersection itself has a lot of traffic I I understand your concerns with the safety hazards if they uh you know connect the two parking lots putting the safety um features in if they you know whether it's the walkways or shared parking going back and forth um I think that's it I think he answered the question thank you thanks so I have a a quick question so with regard to the the types of of restaurants that are being proposed where they you know pickup style restaurants and and obviously the more people who are picking up the more successful the business is the more people are going to be going in and out to pick up do you do you feel that there's a concern there with a lot more individuals in and out trying to pick up their food and move on and move on for the day you know with a restaurant just I mean just based off of everyday life yeah In and Out restaurant is a lot busier than someone coming sitting down for an hour and a half than that car leaving right an hour and a half later that's not going to create the traffic that it would but being that what we're told that it's going to be in and- out quick pickup people rushing in rushing out coming in and out it's going to create more traffic yes because you're not going to have to people send the table waiting just running in grabbing their food and leaving so right but and again we don't know what we're the use is permitted I mean I I get it no I understand I was just asking his opinion on what he thought would be you know would would be more appropriate since we were talking about the potentials of of maybe modifying the the thought process behind what was going to be where like I said before I understand you know he said several times last meeting as well the use is permitted when the building was originally built in zone correct so I I don't think if this was going to be built and zone now it wouldn't I don't think it' be zoned for what they want to do at this present time just because of the congestion now more than so than years in the past and the traffic saf or if it was the the parking lot would be reconfigured to to accommodate and the curb Cuts would be reconfigured to accommodate I'm assuming I'm sure okay thank you may I ask a question what about all the other restaurants on that strip from the beginning to the end do you have the same issue with them as far as parking is concerned or people getting out of those restaurants like ca pero I guess do you have the same issue or just that building um Cafe perau is just one separate restaurant uh we have had accidents there yes but I mean like I they're accidents and they're all over town but it's one restaurant with it's not two separate restaurants but come you know it's also sit down larger building larger parking lot for the one one restaurant thank you thank you officer Morris all thank you thank you uh Mr yustin based on your conversation with Mr Collins it seems like you and your professionals were going back and forth on a bunch of things uh went from having two restaurants to One Restaurant there was a lot of discussions do you want to give us an update of well I mean the the applicant indicated that he would agree with one restaurant and one retail um I mean the fact fact is we did quick calculations I mean if the entire space was retail you still might need a parking variance because of you know the square footage I mean it's and and that would be not using because it appears that the board's professionals want to Discount unless we graded out the back and put retaining walls in to Discount using any of that in the back for parking is that a fair statement I I think unless unless I'm missing something the only correct me if I'm wrong the only way into the basement is through that depressed area in the back correct so my point is you'd have to come up with some other way to get into the basement if you still want to have the basement used if you were going to fill that area uh we could create uh from those two restaurants we can open you know downstairs if that is a solution to prev people from going to towards the back we could do that I I think you'd have to look at that your architect would have to check it out as far as uh safe means of Ingress and egress and what have you U that would be required by the building code I don't have that answer right here tonight but I know but I know when I was out there and I went down in that lower area that's why I remembered that door to get to the basement so if you fill that in so that you've got a more gradual grade because there's a retaining wall between the upper parking lot and the lower one I think you'd have to figure out how you're going to reconfigure access to the basement yeah but the drainage is part of this whole you know um water flow I I understand but I think I think if you fill that in in essence that back wall the building becomes part of a retaining wall if you will so you'd have to evaluate that to see if structurally it would work you could always raise the inlet up as far as water into that drywal in fact that's what it is and I'm not doubting you uh but it's a situation where you got to look at that and see what you can design okay I just my point is about the two restaurants versus the retail in the no no matter what happens no matter what retail you're going to bring you're going to have you know the employee parking and uh customers coming in you you might you know in um just a take out grocery store and you can have more customers than a restaurant would you know even without a kitchen you can have a lot more customers and that's retail I mean I can put refrigeration and just say hey come grab your you know hummus and uh you know other sandwiches ready to pick up and you'll you'll have even more customers coming in it depends on the business and I thought that having uh two two small restaurants without a lot of seaing uh and these days with Uber Eats and the D you know door Dash Etc I think the traffic is going to move but I don't think it's in like it's not going to be 50 customers at a time it's not going to happen because there's time where you have to prepare the food and you're going to give the customer and say you know you're going to pick it up in 10 minutes going to come in in 10 minutes you're not giving five customers in 10 minutes because you're not going to cook that that fast that's what happened with green life people come in and they they actually some are picking up the food but most of them they call ahead of time and the stuff is ready they take it and they go and and I do have like over you know 250 customers a day and I don't have that problem if you go to the parking lot yes sometimes I have you know uh 10 15 customers at a time but most of the time maybe eight customers because a lot of customers you know even though they shop for groceries you know they they come at different times you know so you guys know better than I do if I may I jump in on the conversation just for a quick question I heard during this conversation that shared parking easement would be a potential poal solution or at least uh accommodate any of these concerns in overflow correct um would the easement run with the current tenant uses would that be a a an agreement between property owner A and B of of both Parcels for their tenants or they would be subject to and run only with the tenant uses that are currently the easements being put in place for it will be a permanent it would be right here it would be it be a permanent easement it would not be tenant compliant or Reliant because you couldn't do that because the tenants could potentially you know change every and I understand you started the conversation as bringing this as a solution yeah I mean both Pro properties are owned individually they're Standalone properties they don't kind of share any anything else minus this potential easement to accommodate your your suggested uses um I mean you know the reality of it is you could probably come up with any combination of potential uses on both of these properties and you may not have enough parking unfortunately when you know forgetting back when the latel had the building approved in the 70s more recently when there was you know a site plan Amendment done you know this I don't know whether the issue was glossed over or perhaps at the time time nobody was giving it that much thought I mean parking is going to be is going to be tight here I mean I perhaps the thing to do was kind of treated as one functioning property even though it's two different lots and you know consider parking that way and the easement would flow both ways correct in the future yeah I mean we other tenant moves out and you get a new tenant that needs overflow in reverse you're going to have a kind of a common the original intent was to have 61 have the availability of going on to 57 for additional parking it's easy enough to change to make it you know um interchangeable so that if you know the lot excuse me 57 spart Avenue gets a tenant that has a higher he gets the restaurant for for instance they would then be able to park over on lot 61 for overflow I mean that's easy enough to seen I've seen another solution where you can valet for the one restaurant if you had an issue maybe a third party agreement off site you got you got some other uses across the street that have ample amount of op open parking that's underutilized so I'm just coming up with a solution try to re regardless whether it's the these uses future uses you got you're going to have this challenge whether it's retail or restaurant the parkings got a you came to us with a kind of in this discussion with a solution kind of do shared parking overflow and maybe you could accommodate these other issues with some other third- party Arrangement and I have tried to look for the owners of the property behind me and I would love to acquire it so it makes things much easier and redevelop that whole property but I have I I have not been able to do this so that was going to be my question was that that 40 foot easement was put in before the bypass went in you know so it it probably isn't even necessary to have property anymore if you could if you could get in contact with them maybe they would vacate that easement I agreed because I don't even know if you could build back there anyway given the topography and um you know the soy it's rock and everything else so yeah so a quick question uh just I'm going to interrupt you we didn't get Katherine's uh statement for this witness yet before we come to the day open up to the questions for D but I do want to get our professionals first thank you uh I only had one question related to parking but it came out through the testimony of of the of Officer Morris so it it was satisfied thank you okay celest the floor is yours thanks um so if we were to look at these properties these two separate properties as one cross easement is this something that can be remedied with with the simple restriping of of both lots to accommodate what the parking requirement would would be for both spaces I mean I guess that's a question for the engineers as far as the parking in the back in what I call the sump area if you will for lack of any other term for that area uh I think excuse me that's something that their engineer has to look at and their architect because again I understand what you're talking about to fill that to correct the grade but that opens up some other issues as far as the architecture goes for Ingress and egress to the basement of the building and safe uh passageway out so they'd have to look at that number one number two uh they have to uh pave additional area and curb additional area I think the applicants engineer had scaled off some area roughly about 300 and some odd square feet it was a little less than 500 square feet by his calculations so my point is since we're understanding that that probably is a dryw tonight uh that may have to be enlarged with an additional dryw to accommodate the additional runoff that would be created by that impervious coverage so it's not just restriping in that area okay and again I brought up the fact that when I was out there in the orthopedic uh tenant on the 57 spart Avenue side I noticed specifically he had at every parking space those signs reserved for his use only and I understand that's not what they were agreeing with the the landlord and the owner uh but I think that's something that has to get worked out so we don't end up with a lot of tenant disputes as far as who's parking where and I'm sure as the owner you could take care of that but it's one of those things where it's just not restriping I don't think okay thank you y again I I think everybody ask what I everyone's asked what I what I had questions about as well with the parking rman okay um I guess as I mentioned last time I had serious concern with the grade um and even if employees are parking down there I thought it was dangerous for them especially in the winter with snow or sleep so the grading um is a concern another concern is the opening of a car door for spots 20 2122 um unless you can maybe when in 2009 when you came to the planning board did they approve them as spots or did just somebody just kind of stripe put a couple splashes of paint there because you can't open a door so if you have two adults pulling in one of them absolutely cannot get out of the car we we did not since 2009 strip anything new it was there when I came for the approvals at the time uh I did not change anything I did not they're even barely striped but if you can prove that they were there beforehand otherwise I personally don't think that that's an appropriate spot for parking because you can't open a door um I I will look and see whatever it takes to rectify any issues that becomes less of a safety you know becomes a safety issue I'm willing to you know to rectify it maybe with some walls like Michael suggested the other thing about the the Ste uh driveway if we if we shut it down or close it for example and fill it out I I do believe it becomes more of a hazard because if there's people downstairs in the sparta Pharmacy and there's fire they can't get out that's something to consider you know I don't think we should do that I think we should leave it the way it is B up some walls uh you know for the parking to make sure that the grade maybe towards the end the parking lot or the end of the property and be able to you know to fix it that way you know and that's and and even considering taking that play area in the back and just pave that and maybe create better parking spaces in there well that was the other concern I brought up last time and I appreciated that Corporal Mars also uh brought it up because there's children play toys in there and you indicated children live in those apartments so to make that now where people are coming in and out for pickup of restaurant food and everything else and in and out and having them cross from the door their back door to their play area is a huge concern so I just think you need to really think about each of the scenarios before you come back I I don't want you to think we're saying oh just come back and it's going to be approved but I would like to see some kind of um approval that you had at one point for spots 21 20 21 and 22 on the side of the building here where the poles stick up and you can't open a door and then there's only 14 ft in the easement so until you can get rid of the easement buy the property behind it that easement does exist and 14 feet is not the allowable number so um just keep that in mind too well the easement I mean there's nobody going to the back property right now so but that doesn't matter it's still an easement and it could be until you have it resolved so we still have to look at that just have to rethink the whole thing that's all I I I mean look there's a couple of things I mean with respect to the the tenants and their kids um I mean you could just uh one one of the tenants her her um I guess kids are grownups they 17 18-year-old the other one I do believe she has you know younger kids so one of the talents don't have any young kids that's less than 16 years old and the other one does so one of the talant have but I mean the reality of it is they shouldn't be playing in a parking lot anyway not in the parking lot have you seen it they have to cross the parking lot to play in the grassy area so it's striped back there and you can't have cars pulling in and out and in and out with kids unless you're putting a fence maybe around the playground but to me it's a dangerous situation that Ballers could and you don't know who's going to move in so yeah I I could do that put you could just put ballards in or fence whatever you want no we can put a fence if it's safer for the kids sure yeah many y uh let me start with I empathize with the situation here uh I know thank you we also I would love to see businesses come in there I'm sure almost as much as you would so uh yeah and you know maybe it's not going to be this exact plan or tonight but I hope that you keep thinking through this in you know in the future um you not many new concerns that weren't mentioned already I just the idea of that cross easement and shared parking I'm assuming it that would have to be a permanent agreement in the Deeds for both buildings say for some reason you sell 57 or something large comes in there it needs all the parking so there needs to be an accounting for that well with this these these restaurants or whatever goes in here in the pharmacy that has already utilized you know 60 or 80% of the parking of the two lots so there has to be some kind of permanent accounting for this down the road if that was ever to be the case yes I I'll agree I'll agree to that what was what was presented to Mr Collins was a recordable easement so would be with the chain of title for both properties with the understanding that could affect what happens later with property 57 in terms of the available parking for those tenants correct yeah I I mean I think it probably enhances the value of both properties by having the availability of of you know additional spaces um you know with the understanding that you know it's parking is going to be limited yeah and and the reality of it is I mean if you had a successful business I think people would probably park on the other lot anyway and walk over with without an easement so yeah that's all I have right now thank you thank you right side yeah again I empathized with your uh with your situation umk you you know I think the reason we're mostly going over parking here is is just because we know um you know and we've had it in other places where uh you start getting uh issues between tenants you know over the park working and you know my my concern is also even a further bleed over into the properties that you don't own you know um where we start the police department start getting complaints about um people parking there to utilize your spaces so we want to make sure you have enough have enough parking for the uses that that you want and that's why we're um I I know we're we're spending a lot of time on this but I think it's it's the most important issue here so um one consideration I would do I mean getting approved for two restaurants I would start with one let's say the Portuguese restaurant and the flex nutrition place and I will wait to see if there's a lot of traffic I'm willing to wait six months a year before I rent out the other one and uh then see how it goes and I can come back to the boorder and say okay I'm going to open the second restaurant because there's not a lot I mean every business is are susceptible to failure with the first two years not every restaurant you're going to put in there is going to have 200 Cars a day not everyone but uh you know I'm I'm trying to uh use the property is you know both on my financial planning to see what the return on investment for me but I I have failed over the past four or five years to get tenants in there it's it's not easy these days retail with Amazon and everybody else everybody orders in line you know they they'll sell milk at Amazon you know with the Whole Foods what am I supposed to do I mean keep it vacant and uh I I I do believe having restaurants and those two spots I think it'll be great for the town uh I think it great for the residents uh it gives them different opportunities um you know but I'm willing to work with the town uh in every way I can but I need to get tenants into those uh spots thank you more yeah thank you we would very much like you to get tenants into both of those spots that's that's a very it's a very prime location but as the the colonel said um it's it's very busy and it's only going to get busier Through Time so we have I think in a lot of these applications we really have to look to the future I understand right and we love to eat in Sparta everyone so we would love to have more variety um but um but also um I have I share the same concern as some of the other um friends here that that the 57 building in back there is the play yard with the trampoline with the bicycle with the p the patio set in chairs and the little scooter pink scooter um the outdoor bar coming coming out and when I visited there I can only share my observations from a couple of days um at noon time every single spot was filled in back of 57 there were eight cars parked in back of 61 and a connecting row between the two properties in back on the sides of both there were four cars they could have held six there were nine cars going around where the sparta Pharmacy was so that so so that's what I what I see you know I see danger okay I see Danger and um one of my commitments is to try to protect our community as well as encourage good food and a good Cuisine uh you know that's it's and and that's you know something I've been wanting to share I understand thank you uh as far as the playround it's very easily removable uh I never authorize the talent to put any toys in there so I can uh pick up the phone and say Katherine you got to move this out uh or I can I can move it out or we can put a fence around um you know as far as the parking I do believe the spa Pharmacy is uh the CBR to having so many cars you know and I can talk to them and tell them look you want to do training do it somewhere else I didn't have this location for training or you know to have meetings in the basement you know um as as far as the traffic uh when I purchased the property we didn't have a lot of traffic but now there is traffic and it's going to continue to increase day after day I'm not going to disagree with you uh there's nothing around it because the whole environment of where people live are coming to the suburbs because they cannot afford the prices of houses in cocas or you know in West New York they're going to come up this way and the traffic will increase uh but uh having a business that's what it's all about it's about you know business owner is going to make more money about it but at the same time I understand your concern about the traffic and we'll do the best we can in order to you know to manage it uh whether in dealing with a restaurant owner and say look you got to have to organize uh your website to say you know like every 10 minutes have one customer to come in instead of every two minutes I mean there is ways in technology that you can arrange and uh make sure that it's like the Cannabis people with cannabis this is the way you know the the state is dealing with it they they have 11 minutes maximum for every customer these are the regulations 11 minutes you in and you out you can't even stay in the parking lot anymore and there's a security guard that goes out there and watches these people once they pick up their you know Goods they're out of the door 11 minutes you out of the parking lot so there is ways of hopefully dealing with it in the future and that's what I personally do with a lot of different businesses so yeah um one thing that you mentioned was Paving the parking lot more in back of 57 did I hear you correctly that but I wouldn't recommend you know creating more impervious surface that's fine I mean we can't have it both ways I mean we might need to create more impervious coverage to to create additional parking I mean it's it's it's not fair to the applicant to say well you need more parking but we don't want you to Impe increase the impervious surface I mean I I think there has to be a balance here in order to make this site because quite frankly we're doing the math and I know we're doing on the Fly and that's a but fully retail in this entire building you probably don't have enough parking so I I mean I I get the concern but under the storm water RS there are ways you can handle storm water that comes from additional impervious surface well I don't agree with you that you can't do both you have to you have to comply with both all of the standards and if you don't you need to relief from it which you're going to request I guess but but my suggest you before and I'm going to make it again I think we're wasting our time because I think you have to do some engineering is you have two lots the two lots have some capabilities here they have two separate driveways I'm not sure you need the second driveway I'm not sure you need that wall to be a cliff at the on the lot that has the two apartments on it you could redesign your whole site and figure out what your cap is on retail what your cap is on restaurant both uses have been permitted in the zone for 50 years they're still permitted in the zone the problem you have is you're bum bumping up against the cap on coverage you're over the cap supposed to be something like 40% you're at 70% you're trying to increase it to 71.5% and you're way over on square footage for the parking proposed for two restaurants so why not redesign both Lots deal with your current tenants and your future tenants clean up your parking in both the front and the back organize your play area if you're going to have one with a sidewalk you don't need I don't you don't show an easement to The Neighbor Next Door at least not on your surveys what I mean I mean the other the next one the next one down there is the dry cleaners you know control he owns both with his wife figure out a way to get the best design and the maximum square footage that you can get with whatever variance you want to ask for I think you shouldn't ask for the variance for the coverage I don't think you should but you might be able to use some of the Green Space of lot of the of the orthopedic site to balance your total coverage you might you might be able to get under 70% I have a question I mean you have yard space I look I don't I'm not your engineer but those two lots are inextricably intertwined forever that's why you bought them this whole section because if you look at it I agree with you there's all these site plans all of these parking lots run right into the other I agree with you that's why you should that's why you should modernize design modernize the Ingress and egress modernize the cross walks modernize the parking spaces uh and maybe you can't have restaurant and and the question is what happens after the design if we still don't have enough coverage you you you can never use something for something that's not compliant all right but if you can get a variance I don't recommend it here but that's what you got to deal with but you're in control sir of your two lots and your two buildings and I I definitely uh think for example that uh if you don't want to fill in the back of the sparta Pharmacy property because you want to keep the Ingress and egress then you should not be overusing that back area my concern is the fire hazard you you I agree with you I totally agree with you and I remember that the pharmacy does use the basement for their I think their lunchroom and their storage and and I believe that was approved by the board so I don't know what's going on with training down there or whatever that doesn't sound like something that was originally approved but look they're good tenant they're good use they're great uh business and we we certainly don't want you to lose your your Pharmacy right you don't want to lose your Pharmacy as a tenant U but you're in control of all that space and you're in control of how much you impervious coverage you want to keep and how much you want to add and and that becomes a cap on your parking I honestly don't see how much we can redesign to be able to come up to a solution where you you know you provide enough coverage I don't I don't see it well then maybe you can't have restaurants why not because you're not complying and parking okay so you what you're suggesting is just have a retail that that's what's allowed you're complying as to your current site plan for both Lots if I open the retail I don't need to come in the front of the board that's right but you do have to go to the minor site plan subcommittee for the change in tenant from retail to retail from vitamin store to widgets store Mike do you have any questions I just want to make a statement um I'm not 100% in agreement with what I've heard on this parking discussion um it seems at some points it's subjective and I think they have a team of professionals that could figure it out work some solutions to accommodate whatever your use is whether you're going to go retail restaurant if you can make it work I think think it's up to your professionals to maybe reconsider based on what you heard today but um I hope that we did not come across objective and we're as other colleagues have have said here we're sensitive to the safety issues I think that's resolvable the play area is resolvable there's a lot of resolve resolvable things here so I just um speaking for myself it's not necessarily reflective of my my comments thank you I agree I I 100% agree I think I think it's a matter of your Prof I 100% agree I think it's a matter of your engineer to look at both of your properties together and try to to work up a solution that's that's viable to so that you can you can be accommodated with what it is that you're looking for understood thank you um all right I I I think we get the message um will car we'll carry it till next meeting um we'll carry I don't know if we can when's your next meeting um the next meeting is pretty close 14 days so um you're probably looking at um we're we're thinking of trying to have a meeting although no we I don't think we could do that no the next meeting is the six isn't it yeah the six is three weeks three weeks yeah yeah but we got to have they're going to do revised plans we we really got to see them Mr Collins before um 10 days before before they leave do we have to open up the comment to the public no no because they're going to carry you can but we're going to carry the hearing it sounds like because they're going to revise their plans so um and we don't we meet on the 6th we're very busy that night I don't think the six is an option I I don't think so either also it wouldn't be good for you because it means that you'd wait you might wait like two hours and not get H on the 6th on the 6th okay I think we're trying to have a meeting on the 20th but I don't think we have Catherine and because that's the league that is the league A lot of people are away um the next one is December 4th um I mean if you're thinking about revising your drawings to incorporate the other lot and you'll have to make that decision on your own that is an amendment that will re require a notice within we already did that even for that lot yes okay so we could carry that to a date certain um but we really do need your revised plans in really 21 days before the hearing because Dave and Katherine have to re write written reports reviewing them especially if you're going to include the other lot um is that what you're thinking of doing as far as you know going to yeah I I mean we'll have to talk about it but um so it seems that we carry it to the fourth the fourth and then and that that is that is a that is may be a good night because we do have although we have a master plan public hearing we will already you know you'll go after that Miss Fox do you see an opening in the schedule on based on our current agendas I think 124 would be the best right now like Tom is suggesting okay you know and and the more you can get it to be to compliant with the ordinance so I think that that's practical December 4th the next one is probably January uh whatever first Wednesday in January we actually have 1218 oh 1218 yeah so that's an option to want to do that okay so now the chairman may want to get input from the public before you finish tonight even if it's just whatever questions like that anyone from the public wish to comment on tonight's testimony thank you Jen were you previously sworn on this one okay please is it please St your name and go ahead Jennifer Jenny derk's 20 um tap into Sparta um I did have a question we're talking quite a bit about the easement um that runs between the two properties looking on uh became familiar with that easement because of the Fluss the previous Fluss application at which point both properties lot one and two not related to you except for that easement it shows a 40ft driveway and if you look on uh the gis which is which is what I did the the easement belongs to lot two in the back so I don't understand how we're talking about eating into and not withstanding the fact that there are already parking spaces there how is it possible that you are eating into or it's being it's allowed to to use that easement which belongs to uh lot two in the back even though there may be um an easement by by necessity I assume there is but how does that allow for construction of of parking spaces or walls or um Paving more impervious coverage uh to Ernie's point he he asked why would they even need that easement because the bypass is there now but a previous years ago um a business was proposed for that lot and it was denied because of access to 517 they would not allow for access to 517 which means you have to have that easement so how that's so my question primarily is how is this proper these two properties on either side of this easement that belongs to the property in the back how are they allowed to use that eat into it for with parking spaces and so forth um also the easement that this that's a question really for Mike zaji and okay his engineer so Mike do you have a answer well I mean we the we've parked near the e ement there may be a small portion of it but the the easement itself is still available to those people I mean we're not we're not creating parking spaces nothing's been proposed to deny the ability to get up to that lot if uh to the balance of that lot if necessary so just looking at the map as it's expressed on the gis it shows the lot the easement lines going actually right up against the two buildings which covers the two lot um parking spaces 20 21 and 22 as they exist today um the language of the easement specifically says that and this is this is language of a cross seasment between lot one and two in the back so again not specifically on your properties but it does address the need to allow for for um unfettered access including tractor trailers to be able to navigate that parking that um driver way so this is an easement that exists on these other two properties it's clearly spelled out um in section B one and two um parking access site easements Mutual reciprocal but non-exclusive Ingress and egress easements and so on and so on and it does talk about this provision should also provide for free movement of tractor trailer Delivery trucks so if you're putting if you're counting on putting parking spaces along those buildings I understand some of them already exist and possibly talking about Paving more in the back to create more spaces how does that square with this easement as it exists now for lot two is that's the that's that's the primary part of my question we would first of all we're not proposing to block that it will still be free access you're right it is right up against the the buildings as as it is but if you read that literally you couldn't do anything on either either one of these lots and we've used it uh it's been used that way for as long as you've owned it so I I think we but we're not doing again we're not doing anything to deny if that property ever in the back got developed the ability to use this area uh the seasman area to get access to it I understand what you're saying that it's it's practice that it's been going on and on because it's back basically Woods back there there's no development back there but to say literally it belongs you know that this is an easement but isn't that the point isn't why would you not have why would you not follow what it what it says um and I I question how the parking spaces that are already there are allowed to exist with the easement that belongs to lot to when the the line goes right through those parking spaces so to the to the board's consideration how do you count those spaces when they may go have to go away if and when that property ever gets developed and and it floss may come up with a project they've got their project going they have they have rights to access that driveway according to the easements as they stand right now for Lots one and two that 40 40 unit apartment building is already approved they could be driving down that way it's possible because of this because of the easement so just something to consider uh when coming when calculating and uh developing future plans thank you thank you Mr ARS anyone else from the public okay so Mr chairman we should carry this to uh December 4th at 7 p.m no further notices um Mike did you have anything further to add or anything okay so um the the application of RZ I'm sorry rzan company LLC will be carried without additional notices to December 4th at this meeting room at 7 pm I would just like to add one comment if I can sure just uh I I would encourage you look forward to seeing you back again again we there's a lot of empathy going on here too that we know it's a difficult situation and we want to see things come in there we want to see businesses be there for the community so yeah and Mike would you just confirm you applicant carries the application and time frame for action until let's say the end of December in case it snows or something like that thank you Mike thank you gentlemen thank you thank you you okay next item on the agenda is other board business um couple things I want to talk about we have a few applications that currently um are being reviewed for completeness so we have to try to fit them into the calendar and there's only a few more meetings left uh for the rest of the year in 2024 uh I know there's been a discussion about possibly reing a meeting on November 20th um I have not taken a poll among the members of the planning board to see if we have a quorum Mr Collins and Mr Simmons you both uh mentioned that you are available on that night yes yes Mr armad you're not on the 20th I possibly will be at the league um likely will be at the league likely will be at the league and what about any of your we have a down there so likely most of our licensed professionals will be also at okay when will you know 100% certain and I can find out tomorrow that'd be great um and then for members of the board would anyone not be available on November 20th I'll be at the league league great we would have three missing Justin and Brian I I can find out with them three missing but we get two so it's really just one off of tonight but we still have a quarum with that yeah you just need five yeah and um we you know I would be I'm comfortable there's an application uh Lake Mohawk uh tennis club for adding pickle bullet courts where there's ten I think there's some change in the fencing or something it's kind of minor I don't really think we would absolutely need Catherine for such a minor site plan it's actually a minor site plan and Dave has start done the completeness review that probably could be done on the 20th of if without anyone from uh the planning uh consulting firm I mean I'd love it if they could be here but I don't think it's I don't think they need to be here for such a mind minor application what's the process of getting that added so that would be is a special meeting because you were going you canceled for November 20th because it's the league so uh dor Dori and I just do a notice she does a notice to the newspapers of a special meeting for November 20th at 7 pm and if some of you would not be able to be here so you might not want there to be a meeting but I don't think there's dor do you remember anything else I think it's like tennis club we have um two other applications that are being reviewed um I believe uh Mr Simmons I think we just got another one that was deemed complete correct that we have to place on an agenda so we have two pending and I believe we have two that still have time and we have them com back have them coming back so that's five five and the environmental open space open space pdm2 yeah pdm2 so there's quite a bit I think the special meeting would be worthwhile the one I know that I reviewed involves basically a sidey guard setback for two sheds so so if we do do it my preference would would be that we have those simple ones so that those of us who are can't be here and who are weren't planning to be here aren't going to miss out in contributing to anything major that's possible can we do the Fireside apartments that day that's that's the one where they're basically on the upper level taking an area and making an additional apartment number seven bottom level and and reconfiguring somewhat existing apartment number six there's no site improvements M the biggest thing when I wrote the report on that one was uh for them to provide verification that they still have the uh 15 parking spaces that were called out in the original resolution I believe there were two garages three spaces right by the garages and another 10 spaces that they have some sort of a lease agreement just to verify that's still in place but as far as any site improvements or changes they did not they're actually asking for a site plan waiver it's just interior work thank you so Mr Collins and Miss Fox you'll take care of the notice and Dory Dory takes care of the nose um that one that Fireside apartments or whatever I don't know we might need Katherine for that we certainly should have a review it I'm not sure you can have an apartment on the first floor in the TCC Zone without it being low and moderate and I didn't I have not reviewed it yet I haven't reviewed it yet but regardless if I I'm president or anyone from my office is President there will be a review memo issued for any applications so that you do have some guidance great planning perspective right and Dave Dave could review it and supplement the his opinions he's a planner as well as an engineer but I just wanted you to know that that one might have an issue that I don't I'm not sure you can have an apartment on the first floor unless you make it low and moderate did they propose to make it low and moderate I think you can do it if you make it low moderate I'm going to say it that way which would be great but I don't think people volunteer that too quickly so I may be requiring that so anyone else have any other board business okay uh next is um open to the public members of the public have an opportunity you can comment on matters not on the agenda and matters not relating to a hearing or an application for development um would anyone like to speak from the public Jenny Dereck Happ into Sparta this tangentially relates to Diamond ship but only in so far as the request that I made at the Town council meeting Dean I think you were there when I asked uh what if any and could we possibly Mr Stoner was at that meeting Dave um have somebody from the township present at the meeting meetings with u Mr copol when he is negotiating the board cannot talk about Diamond chip at all so you okay well recom you've made your request to the township Council that's a different subject Township Council can make determinations of whether it but it really is a planning board issue is not a planning board issue and um but a bottom line is you cannot we can the board cannot talk with you about the diamond chip matter because it's a pending application it's also in litigation and some of the board members are ineligible so your your request has been made to the township Council and that's Dean has this request been prom brought down should not be talking about Diamond chip de I'm I'm asking about the request that I made at Council has that been pushed to should not be talking about the diamond chip application because he is ineligible is that something that you can send to the diamond chip we subard we should we should this board should not be speaking about Diamond ship we do not talk about any pending applications at the planning board accept in their hearing and this is not their hearing this is a procedural matter that's already being discussed I'm going to ask you to stop now and I've given my advice so anything else but Starks that's it Mark Scott n PUO Parkway um I'm standing here hoping that the planning Bo will take seriously hiring a litigator to help Mr Collins fight Diamond chip the gr Danel howerin firm representing Diamond ship has 78 lawyers and 19 litigators Diamond ship has already defeated Mr Collins most like most recently in the sparta Facebook Diamond ship Warehouse case the face Sparta Facebook Warehouse case is now being discussed in legal circles and real estate development circles throughout New Jersey here's a quote from Benjamin Benjamin nadell an attorney at Saul Ying LLP a firm with 470 attorneys and20 real estate Specialists quote for land use attorneys this recent Sparta decision will result in major impacts to New Jersey public hearings and the ml it will be very interesting to see how the approval process plays out well done Adam Garcia Adam Garcia is one of the 19 litigators with diamond chips Law Firm Jared Danel howerin Adam was named best lawyers one to watch in 2025 we'll probably see him again this case has opened the door for developers throughout the state to challenge and destroy planing boys and Zoning boys this article has Mark this article here that I hold in my hand refers to multiple errors and shortcomings undertaken in the defense excuse Mr Scot Mr Scott we cannot talk about the diamond chip case you've heard that before no we're talking about the township of Sparta and representation you're talking about the diamond chip application which uh this board will not be talking about tonight and is not part of a hearing tonight okay I don't know one more word about Diamond chip I'm going to talk about you're talking about something that the board can't talk about Mark I'm talking about possibly getting you some help in the litigation field I'm sure that my firm and I can handle the litigation Mr Scott you know I'm quite I'm you've been here 42 years excuse me Mr Scott Vice chair and rightt think the overall uh comment you're trying to make is you're suggesting that we look into getting a litigator from Mr Collins or yeah I think that would be a great idea to help us I mean there there's you know we we we can do better and we must do better this is our town and we're on we're on you know we're up against the wall here and we've lost once and we we he could why not get the best litigator we could possibly get why not represent this town we must iner you know insist on a top EXP experienced litigator the top why can't we get someone from New York City from I mean Bedminster got someone from New York City and guess what they won I'm we can win I'm B I'm Bedminster land use board attorney Mr Scott so maybe it was I you might I think you might as well stop so that's my recommendation anything short of hiring a specialized experienced litigator is Mal feasance on the part of this board money has been set side there's no reason not to just read my resume Mr Scott thank you Mr Scott thank you anyone else okay before we adjourn talk about let me respond to Mr Collins Mr Collins has appeared sir four times in 42 years that's how I looked into your resum four times in 42 I've handled hundreds of pieces of litigation sir you are lost okay um before we adjourn tonight um both all of our board members and our professionals would like to thank everyone who attended and participated in tonight's meeting and all those who are watching at home our next meeting is scheduled for November 6th uh I believe the agenda is scheduled to change with that um it will be the open space and Recreation plan meeting and we'll also discuss pdm2 Zone okay would anyone like to make a motion to rejourn motion to adjourn I'll second all in favor I thank you very much we have a great night you're officially right meeting up your