candidate you feels best so I do it in alphabetical order I'd like to make a motion that we appoint Mr Collins of voo haate Collins and Schneider as a plan and board attorney for the calendar year 2024 can I have a second I'll second thater Dory CER roll call rnie Ernie reichstad yes Christine Dunbar yes Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes chairman Ronde yes celest Luciano yes Nick pompilio yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chair Bill Enright yes Justin Canalis yes okay uh congratul congratulations H I guess based on that we do not need the motion for the uh for Mr berstein thank you Mr chairman and board members okay the next order business is appointment of the conflict attorney so we have uh one candidate which is Mr David Brady uh I'd like to make a motion that we appoint Mr Brady of Brady and Corel LLP as the planing board's conflict attorney for the calendar year 2024 may I have a second I'll second it Berney ran yes Christine Dunbar yes Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes chairman Ronde yes celest Luciano yes Nick pompilio yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill Enright yes Justin Canelo yes okay so the motion is passed uh the next order of business is the appointment of the board engineer which we have uh one candidate Mr David Simmons of Harold pellow and Associates so uh I'd like to make a motion that we appoint Mr Simmons of Harold P and Associates as the planning board engineer for the calendar year 2024 may I have a second I'll second it Dory roll call please bery rad yes Christine Dunbar yes Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes chairman Ronde yes celest Luciano yes Nick pompilio yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill Enright yes Justin canel yes thank you very much okay congratulations Dave okay um the next order business is the appointment of our professional planner we had two candidates that we interviewed they were Harbor consultants and tnm services and we'll follow the same process as we did for the board attorney so if I start in alphabetical order I'd like to make a motion that we appoint Harbor Consultants as the planing board planner for the calendar year 2024 may I have a second I'll second Sylvester Ernie rad yes Christine Dunbar no Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes chairman Ronde yes Le Luciano yeah yes excuse me Nick pompelio yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill Enright yes Justin Canalis yes okay so motion is passed congratulations to Harbor Consultants um the next appointment is the next order of business is the appointment of the board secretary um we uh we're fortunate to have Dory Fox here with us uh so I'd like to make a motion that we appoint Dory Fox as the secretary for the planning board for calendar year 2024 may I have a second second second everybody bless W also Ernie rat yes Christine dvar yes Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes chairman Ronde yes Celeste Luciano yes Nick pompilio yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill Enright yes Justin canel yes thank you okay so the motion is passed and again congratulations uh Dori and you know it's our thanks to you and your entire staff for everything that you do on a daily basis to help us out here it's greatly appreciated we probably just don't say enough but thank you oh thank you everybody thank you thank you okay the next order business is the appointment of the official newspapers and I believe in our packet we had a uh resolution that listed the papers 202 24-1 so um are there any comments to the context that was in that res resolution just do I have a question do we need to include online sources as well or for the planning board purposes it typically print for notifications um you don't need to include them not for purposes of the official newspapers right now that you currently have to use official newspapers and uh the herald is one New Jersey Herald is one and Sunday Herald is technically a different paper so that's how you meet the two two official papers but you can put notices in uh other locations last year we we did appoint tap into SP right and you can you can add them but they will not be the official newspaper and they can't be used for the U mailed notice for the public publication of notices for purposes of the open public meetings act or the ml just they're informational okay okay you can use the independent but I don't know if they publish new notices um this is the official this is the paper that you use for the open public meetings act that you have to have newspapers for so so do we need to other people you know can the official newsp I assume it needs to be daily right a daily Pap that's right it's not a daily but but it doesn't necessarily I defer to you if you the council prefers a different newspaper usually the only newspapers that actually do notices are the Star Ledger and the in this area and The Herald and and the Sunday Herald if we wanted to to modify to add tap into we could just say you know the resolution modified to add tap into yes okay so any other any thoughts any discussion from anybody okay I'd like to make a motion uh that we approve resolution 2020 uh 2024 d-1 covering the fishal newspapers for notices of the planning board uh with a modification to add tap into as as another source of publication uh may I have a second to that motion I'll second that Bernie Rin yes Christine Dunbar yes Deputy Mayor Dean BL yes chairman Ronde yes Celeste Luciano yes Nick pompelo yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill enri yes Justin Canalis yes okay the motion is passed okay um I think the last odor business we have is the schedule of meetings um and again there was a resolution uh 202 24-2 that published uh a list of all the dates that we were planning to meet the one question I had was is I think similar to what uh I think uh Mr Sylvester pointed out last year we have a July 3rd date there that we probably want to put that one off to you know most a lot of people are on vacation um can we exclude that anybody anybody thoughts any thoughts on that one I think the other date that was mentioned as a possibility is November 20th that's typically gets canceled anyway because the league of municipalities conference so I would actually okay make a motion that we emit from this list July 3rd and November 20th okay we could always add later on as needed so Dean is that is that a motion yeah are you making a motion have a second okay roll call Ernie rad yes Christine Dunbar yes Deputy Mayor Dean blumetti yes chairman Ronde yes celest Luciano yes Nick pompelo yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill Enright yes Justin canala yes okay so congratulations to all of our new members all of our reappointments and returning members as well as to professional appointments made tonight uh I think that concludes the uh reorganization meeting unless anybody has any other thoughts or anything that You' like to add okay I'd like to have I'd like to make a motion to adjoin to adjourn the reorganization meeting and convene the regular meeting May I have a second second It Roll Call Bernie rad yes Christine dunar yes Deputy Mayor Dean blti yes chairman Ronde yes celest Luciano yes Nick pilo yes Mike Sylvester yes Vice chairman Bill enri yes Justin can yes okay thank you everybody we're back in regular session I believe um continuing on with the uh the agenda we have a few correspondents that we need to review tonight the first one is an intent to file a treatment works approval with the NJ njd from Dave's engineering LC LLC um Mr uh Collins M Sim could you explain what this is to everybody I don't believe we have an action to take here it's more of a of a yeah this is just this is just correspondence you receive maybe Dave knows more about the actual request but it's I think it's a single family house and sometimes when they do a u special designs septic system they file what's called a tww but Dave maybe knows that's B that's basically correct and uh I think it's basically for informational purposes for the board okay just so you know that there's there's conventional septic systems which are they meet all the requirements of chap chapter 7 n or something of the D regulations for individual waste what disposal systems for and then if somebody seeks an advanced wastewater treatment system bya for a house or something like that that doesn't meet those RS sometimes they are approvable by the D as a treatment works approval so it's probably an enhanced septic system for replacing an existing septic system um the other one this is just correspondents also from the planning County planning board confirming that they're they've found the diamond chip application incomplete we we can't talk about that pending case because it's a hearing but this is correspondence that is just being copied to you to confirm that they have been asked by the county to provide additional information okay thank you for that so that's Mr chairman can I get just a y little another comment on the first correspondence only because this came up with the town council meeting um last week so typically the treatment works approvals come to the township for consent and then they go to the EP um the resolution that was passed last week was to authorize the township manager in in connection with the engineer to approve for single family residences they they're pretty standard um but we did carve out and anything uh public property commercial Etc will come to the full Council for Council to review it and ask questions and then consent if they deem proper so just a little more flavor thank you anybody else have any other comments I would like to comment on the first correspondence the environmental commission last week uh examined the property and this was a property that actually drains right into I think it's a rapo lake and then it goes down into Glenn Brook so we were very pleased that they're having what I believe Mr Collins referred to as an enhanced uh sewage treatment system put into their property thanks Christine okay um unless anybody has any other comments we will move on to the council updates or to the updates okay so why don't we start with the Town Council update please yep sure thank you so so far this year we've had the annual reorganization meeting and also our first regular meeting which was quite brief uh typical activities occurred we appointed mayor Deputy Mayor numerous uh annual type of reorg related resolutions getting things set in place again for the new year and then we went through every board and committee and made new appointments and reappointments okay uh so that's uh that's the key highlights that I wanted to share tonight I know it was said earlier I I'm going to say again congratulations on on uh being appointed as Deputy Mayor thanks okay uh environmental commission Christine yes thank you um in the environmental commission we were very pleased to welcome Landon taneri as our student liaison and we also have a new adjunct member Rob Otto that we welcomed and we have a new secretary Christine C Costco Costco Costco Costco thank you so now we have lots of christines more even more Christin um I was going to comment on the um the first item but I already did that um we had one speaker um his name is Ethan Mel bazak he is an americore volunteer and he is working with um the susex County Municipal Utilities Authority and he's working specifically with uh Christine Rogers who is on the environmental commission and Nate sjck and they um take care of the Wallkill watershed which is our largest Watershed here um about you know High 40s about 50% of our land drains into the Wallkill but um Ethan was there this is the second time he um attended our meeting and he was um very supportive and had ideas for us to achieve our Sustainable New Jersey goal goals which is to earn the silver and then the gold which is a nice reflection of our of our town we can do that and he suggested education Outreach a local share project a rain barrel Workshop um and wants to help us with stream assessments and um I believe I believe that's it thank you thank you yep all right in terms of subcommittees um due to the holidays and people's availability we just just didn't have any meetings over the last month um we'll have more to report on the minor site plan subcommittee at the next meeting uh however we have at least one spot to fill which was um Angela Cass as the mayor's design uh again appreciate all everything that Angela did was was she was acting as part of that subcommittee um typically Nick I don't know if anyone's talked to you at all about this um if now we should probably talk after okay well we talk afterwards then okay okay okay um and then we'll we'll that at the at the next uh next meeting um there also May there may be another opening so I'm going to ask people to think about if uh if you'd be willing to to um be part of the uh the minor site plan subcommittee which is uh just a few words about I think I think the people that have been on that would say it's a great opportunity to learn um more about the ordinances of a town because you really get a chance to see a lot of different different things and and and talk talk about it you know with the team that that's in place the subcommittee that's in place um so it's a great opportunity and um if if anyone's interested we'll we'll bring that up at at the next meeting um other than that uh I have nothing else on committies of p uh Comm uh committee did not meet as well for the same reasons as the other other committee uh so I believe this unless anybody has anything else that you'd like to add um I think we can move on to uh to the resolution anybody have anything that you like to add before we move on okay so let's move on to the the resolution let me just get my notes here okay so this was the resolution on uh the public hearing for the plane Board number uh no no on let me see take it back uh 79 Aura Laura Wellness STP um so anyone's had a chance to read it um does anybody have any comments I I think I had a few minor minor things I can find My Notes here there with me one second I can't find us what it was is basically there was a typo I think where the their calendar year 2023 was stated twice in two places where it was mentioned and other than that I think I was okay with it okay we'll make that direction okay and we need a moving party and a second for the allur wellness uh resolution is their moving party in a second okay with that correction okay so um I'm I'm not doesn't vote on this because he voted no so we need a moving party who is who voted yes on this approval I'll make a motion I'll secondy mayor Dean blti yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Justin caneles yes celest Luciano yes and Ernie re yes okay so a motion is pass Carri okay so at this point we'll move on to the public hearing uh plan board application 708 loose Holdings LLC 53 a SP Avenue block 5019 Lot 23 site plan being carried from the meeting of 1220 23 agenda gentlemen if you like to come up uh Mike would you like to join us up here as well welcome you know what I'm going to sit down so up okay gentlemen good evening Mr chairman members of the board for the record Brian shaky clear jacobe alfier and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant uh FL Holdings LLC uh we will last before the board on December 20th we had brief testimony from the architect uh this is an application for 40 unit multif family building including six affordable units uh at 53a Sparta Avenue uh based upon the questions we've heard and to put it into context uh my first witness this evening will be Robert McNerney who was sitting to my left who is a representative from Fluss Holdings he will describe the history of the property and some of the features of the property before we go to the architect so unless there are any questions of me I would request that Mr McNerney be sworn Mr mcney please raise your right hand do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do okay and please state your name and spell your last name and give us at least a business address Robert McNerney MC NE R anyy 8 plots Road Newton New Jersey thank you please please go ahead gentlemen all right Mr McNerney could you uh explain to the board your relationship with plus Holdings yes I re represent plus Holdings in various transactions uh basically Acquisitions of vacant land to develop property and you're familiar with multif family developments throughout the state I am and you also have uh other licenses that the board should be aware of are you a licensed real estate broker I am and are you a licensed appraiser yes I am okay and are you familiar with the property located at 53a spot Avenue yes and it's my understanding that fles Holdings is the contract purchaser of that property that's correct and is also my understanding that you were familiar with the history of that property I am could you describe to the board uh what was located on that property uh in the past uh to the extent that you know yes uh the property was originally developed with a hotel motel it was known as the uh Valley View Motor Lodge and had a swimming pool with various other amenities the records state that it looks like in 1964 that was built and then subsequent to the hotel uh ceasing to exist then there was an assisted living facility in 1987 converted to Valley Valley View for seniors with 26 rooms that eventually went out of business and I understand it was a fire that destroyed the buildings and as of today we still have the foundations for that that building and a swimming pool on the site along with the broken up paved driveway and parking area okay could you describe the proposed project uh that has been submitted to this board for review yes the proposed project is made up of 40 units there will be seven one-bedroom units containing 730 square fet with one full bath 31 two-bedroom units containing between 973 Square ft and 1,22 square ft with each having two full baths so the two bedrooms will each have two full baths and then as part of the affordable housing we uh in order to conform to their regulations we have to build two three bedroom units uh also with two full baths building will be four stories serviced by an elevator with each apartment either having a covered balcony or Terrace the amenities I know we had some discussion planner uh last time the amenities will include an exercise room on the second floor Community rooms on a third and fourth floor individual storage closets on a third and fourth floor for tenants and then we have a fenced in common area amenity at the front of the building which will be uh made up of a covered pergola with seating fire pit with seating a barbecue area with uh two picnic tables and in addition we're going to have 12 electric charging stations as part of the parking design if you'd like I can and M go ahead Bob then I'll ask the question so Mr McNerney you asked the or you requested the site engineer to prepare an amenity exhibit correct yes all right uh Mr Collins if we could have that marked is A1 yes uh that'll be a A1 you don't have any prior exhibits uh no the prior exhibits were part of the application project uh package I'm sorry say A1 as a colored rendering all of the outdoor what what would you have how would you characterize it Mr MC outdoor amenity package okay all right Bob is there a date on that Bob 11724 all right and that was prepared by Burton engineering at your direction that's correct all right could you describe to the board what's depicted on what we've marked as A1 this uh this amenity package is included in the site plan but it's very small so we blew it up and colorized it to give you a little better flavor of what we plan to do this this area is located in front of the parking area as the driveway comes up it's pretty substantial it's 20 ft wide by 100 ft long and in that area we propose a covered pergola with uh seating for it looks like uh 10 uh 10 seats under the colored Perla we have a fire P fire pit here with uh eight seats and then we have the barbecue area here with two picnic tables it's fenced in separates it from the uh parking lot okay now in addition I know the architect will testify but it's my understanding that the applicant is willing to uh add some architectural features to the building and the architect will testify to that correct yes the facade uh the facade of the building you know we're looking to maybe upgrade that a little bit we did make some minor changes however uh I don't think we're fully happy with that at this point okay and could you uh the developer is Fluss Holdings are you familiar with them yes and could you describe to the board what Fluss Holdings does and uh whether they are uh familiar with multif family developments sure uh FL Holdings is a third generation real estate company that owns manages more than 1,200 apartment units throughout the state of New Jersey Northern New Jersey M uh very familiar with uh on-site management this would be managed by the company uh as far as the controls of what's kept on the balcony the garbage the loading that'll be all under the uh company's control all right thank you Mr McNerney Mr chairman I have no further questions for Mr McNerney can I ask a question now yeah yeah so thank you for that um you mentioned in the history of the site about uh it was an assisted living facility I think it began 1987 approximately and then a fire destroyed it uh was that the end of it being occupied and what time frame was that how long has it been unoccupied the site I couldn't find from the research in the public records but evidently the Assisted Living company uh ceased to exist and then the fire occurred and it's been sitting dormant there for many years I don't know if anybody knows better history than that but from what I saw my research it's uh it's just been abandoned and you know we found site would be perfect for our type of development because there's obviously demand for apartments in Sparta we don't have one public or or one market rate apartment complex in town we have up by shoppr right we have a couple units and then we have some 55 and older units but and our our people our our uh tenants it's a lot of young professionals retirees who can't afford taxes in spida anymore and sell their house and have a place in Florida but want to maintain a residence in Sparta so that and then uh big Market is divorcees where somebody gets divorced their kids are in the programs I mean there's really nothing available in Sparta to meet that demand and then we're also looking further out in Newton we have Thor Labs that's building a you longest building and there's going to be a great demand for new apartments modern apartments is anyone else having a better idea of how long it's been unoccupied or I know it was occupied unoccupied still standing for a couple years after the um Assisted Living went out of there um but it wasn't too long it was maybe a couple maybe a year or two and then the um you know then and then the fire occurred so I I do know that it wasn't immediately but it was wasn't long okay but so we're talking at least at least 20 years I 25 years based upon my okay uh inspection of the property I would say 20 years would probably be close to it thank you but again I am I wasn't here 20 years ago I have a few questions okay yep um so we've got 7 1bedroom 312 bedroom two bath and two three bedroom two bath correct okay and the two three bedroom two bath are low income they're affordable units they're affordable units okay um so do you have a breakdown of what the rental amounts will be for the one bedrooms two bedrooms at this point things change so rapidly we we don't we have a pretty good idea based upon a Newton project that was just built uh they're at $2500 a month for the two bedrooms so that's a good comparable um I think spart is a little better location closer to 15 so um and with with these are utilities included in these rent amounts not included no no utility it' be plus utilities but you and also you have a laundry fac laundry room in each unit too okay so each each unit has its own laundry so it's not it's not a shared laundry space yes and the ceiling Heights in inside it's not going to be 8T it's going to be 9t give a little more volume thank you okay um good the uh the property that includes the driveway all the way down to spart Avenue correct yes so this is the property here I'm to get out of way and the neighborhood's made up of various uses if you look and I'll give you the mic but don't mess around takes two this is Sparta Sparta Avenue or Sparta Road 517 whatever you want to call it we own the whole piece the flag lot so as far as easements go we are giving easements to the Burger King and to the uh retail strip center so they can come out and access there's also another access point here now this site to the north that's approved for retail use but it's been vacant for a long time that's Crossing Mohawk House and then you have Burger King Wells Fargo office building wagor taste bank so a variety of commercial uses we have a great neighbor here we have the Methodist Cemetery so shouldn't get any complaints from them and then uh this area here is a con convers conservation uh parel that was dedicated that's 17 Acres it's all wooded and that that's not going to go any place Cemetery here found uh just south of that so my question is as part of the uh the overall project there's also to basically to re repair and repave that road all the way down right I think it needs it yeah it needs it that's why I'm no we want want a nice entrance you know we're trying to protect we we try to protect our investment we're going to put in Belgium Block curb have a curb cut for the um for the retail stores and curb cut for Burger King and I think that'll control the traffic Mr mcing what is the scope of your testimony just so we know which questions they ask you which ones to hold off on I guess you should ask and I'll tell you five pages I gotta know where to start I think uh councilman uh Mr MC att's familiar with the area of the project and the like so if there's I'll direct them one way or the other okay well we're not going into to stormw we're not going into environmental or engineering correct or architecture right those are different corre correct I just want to give you a general overview of the project and then all the details will be answered by the architect and engineer okay I have two questions just quickly um are there any known environmental issues that you're aware of during in your due diligence process related to soil groundwater previous historical use of possibly a fire and pfas and like no we have a phase one report that uh is clean and you're comfortable with that there's no yes we're comfortable that and also as far as soil borings there's a lot of sand and gravel on this site so I have uh you know we're going to have people interested in totally separate question in regard ards to the property management are you going to have an on-site super or a property management firm just managing the the property well I'll be 15 minutes from the site so I'll be on on call and then uh we'll probably have a super on site and then just as far as uh third party Services snow plowing and all that are contract contracted out yes and your easements that you own would you be taking care of those as well or or they responsible or each of the other adjacent Property Owners or your neighbors responsible for that flag lot portion where you have access to the other Lots we will be taking care of our portion we're not going to go on to their property so we'll keep uh our driveway clear snow uh keep it in good shape than so are we talking about the environmental impact statement now then no okay okay the um the rear of the building there's no access road to it um how I saw the fire department's report how would a fire truck access the rear of the building um in case of a a fire again I think that's the engineer engineer okay okay if I if I could um I wasn't here for the last uh meeting I I did see the I did watch the video uh but I just want to check with uh Mr Simmons do you have any questions that that weren't were not answered that we that we still need to have clarified from your memo Mr chairman is as as part of the presentation by both the architect and the engineer uh developing and explaining the project a lot of our points will get answered along the way okay at this point that's ask the same of you um I just have one question that's still in our report and I think you briefly touched upon it um and it's the amenity space that you have the separate exhibit for um was there any consideration of Lo relocating those amenity Courtyards sitting areas closer to the building so that the people who are in these apartment buildings don't have to walk across a surface parking lot and then sit in an area that's got parking lot on one side of you I got a driveway on the other side of me and I'm kind of I got this linear sitting area that may not be in the most comfortable location if I've got nothing but cars idling on both sides of me all I can say is we have other projects with similar design where there the amenity area faces onto the parking area and we have no complaints whatsoever and again if you're looking at at site and you're in that amenity area you're going to be looking out this way which is all which is a nice view you're going to have a view to cemetery but you can have all Woods on this lot so it's really tight to to put it any place else we want to try to maximize it and that that was the one spot where we could I mean it's 2,000 square feet of space so it's not small you mentioned there's a community room and an exercise room you have the approximate square footage of those spaces the architect will testify to that all right thank you so with the with the courtyard being where it is what's what's the walkability it around the the area I mean are residents going to be you know able to to walk comfortably are they um are they going to be able to get offsite comfortably to to Res to uh to the commercial areas right the the engineer will testify to that but we're going to have a sidewalk built to uh access that area so they'd have to cross through the parking lot at some point yes but they do have to cross the parking lot yes openly what will be the view from Route [Music] 517 I don't think you're going to see much from 57 from 517 looking into our property or from our property looking out no looking in to the complex you're not you're going to hardly see this building from the street you know maybe 517 you'll have a little see the top two floors but good great differential and what will be the impact to the neighboring Lots um specifically speically in front so lot 22 which is Burger King and not just storm water but in general well as far as I'm concerned from a marketing standpoint you have positive impact on all these all these Banks and stores there you're going to bring people which is the intent of the whole plan to bring people downtown now I know getting downtown to let's say St maritz or one of the restaurants it's walkable you know I don't know if I want to walk it back up but it's it's welcome and uh we're looking to bring the people down downtown how about access to those existing businesses so if this driveway gets redone and there's cutouts made to it for Burger King for example um how will that access circulation within that lot probably the same way it is now but a little smoother I don't know if you've been through the Burger King Park but it comes right up onto ours and then out so it works now I don't see any any change in that will there be a loss of parking spaces at all no no okay can you go into a little bit more detail of how the driveway would connect through the Burger King however I think we can have the engineer testify to that um you mentioned flush Holdings 1,200 apartments that uh you guys are responsible for any local to the area that you can give us some examples of our first four-way into fourway into Sussex County now uh mainly Bergen County Hudson County uh some in Pake County uh the trees behind Burger King you said you don't anticipate being able to view from 517 what about on Sparta AV are those trees going to remain there like in the back of the Burger King lot yes and the engineer will testified of that and we're also looking to plant more trees and shrubs so you you had mentioned at at the beginning of the presentation that um and I I appreciate it that you're going to take a look at the the facade a little bit so will we have a chance to see that tonight or at a future meeting or uh we're not going to be able to show you a facade tonight but we understand what see I didn't realize in the master plan were pictures or photos of the buildings that you're trying to replicate so more in line with downtown Lake Mohawk area that type of facade you know but I think you could appreciate without knowing what it looks like it's hard for us to stay yeah we're good with with that design yeah so the architect will testify to any uh recommendations from the board that we may be able to implement okay and along along those lines um and I appreciate you had the um the um the colorized version of what it would look like um when I look at it it doesn't really show one complete side is is there anything that you could do to give us a better feel for what this building's going to look like we could give you all four elevations but understanding that nobody's going to see them because the back of the building there's a grade and the side of the buildings out to 57 but but where where you may see it um you know um at the stop stop and shop lot um I will tell you one of my one of the views are spoted is when you're coming down um coming down Route 15 you're looking over the hills there there going to be very viewable from from that spot as well so you want to make sure that we're maintaining the architecture and the design from that that aspect as well no I agree and we'll if you'd like we show you four elevations okay each side okay thank you um I've got a question on the the the drawings and I'm not sure if this is you or not sir the um the drawings that we got of the floor plans were all Mark marked conceptual um but this is uh looking for a final approval so would the drawings be modified to to take the work conceptual off or what was the intent to that well I think the big issue with that is full architecturals have to be prepared okay provided the board votes favorably uh we're not going to spend money on full architecturals at this point they Concepts there the the Box isn't going to change the layout isn't going to change uh it'll stay in keeping with the plan Okay so so let me just refer to our professionals is that sufficient for the type of approval that we're we're that they're seeking here I I would say Mr chairman uh it's important and the applicant has agreed to provide for example the four elevation views of the building we've had not necessarily this applicant but just by way of example we've had applicants in the past that have shown plans and then when it came time to actually go to construction they first didn't want to make for example the rear view all As Good As It showed on the conceptual plan and we had to bring him back to the board and force the issue if you will I'm not saying this applicant is saying that okay but I think it's good that they provide all the views and as Mr Collins incorporates the reference to those elevation views and those floor plans into any resolution that the board might consider then everybody knows this is what we're looking at and when the construction Department looks at it they're going to look if it's brick or stone or whatever it might be and if they were going to deviate from that in all likelihood they that'd be more than a field change they'd have to come back to get a modified approval okay so if I just replay it back to so it sounds like what we have here is is typical and insufficient for these type this type of this level of approval yes subject subject to getting all the views we discussed and I and I think to clarify Mr chairman although it says concept plan y the number of units the type of units the size of units the location of units will not change okay all right thanks we also labeled which ones would be affordable we try to have them interspersed throughout the building and not in one section okay and I have I have one last question um and I'm not sure if this is uh to you or to uh to an engineer but uh I believe there's there's one loading space that's provided for so typically when I look at it an an apartment building of this size people moving in people moving out um the the high volume of online ordering uh is one sufficient going to be is one space sufficient if so why would you think so well first I believe one space is sufficient and it's based upon our operations at our other buildings um as far as moving in and out tenants they're on a scheduled time they get a time slot when they can pull in when they can pull out you're not going to have five families moving in at once we control that so so if if body was to move in would they use that loading space quite possibly which then if and and I imagine that's typically a couple hours each time so if there was to be deliveries of you know online deliveries where would where would those trucks park usually they just pull up to the side of the building from my experience you know it's not going to have a package room where they they're going to be directed to it's not like they're going to leave the packages outside either so would you consider a second space looking to see if you could fit a second loading space just to make sure that uh I think my engineer better equipped to answer that question fair enough okay thank you thank you I have a question about the uh test pits that are in the application is that something for the engineer to answer yes for the soil okay a question now what about the view from Sparta app I think the question the answer tonight was the view from 517 what about the view from spart at I don't think you're going to be able to see the majority the building Sparta a we we the question is right in front of the Burger King that's Sparta a right so yeah okay I don't think you're going to be able to see of that building it's four stories correct it is but it's up on top you know I think of the Hill yeah yeah it's pretty big grade difference between Sparta AB the site where the building's going to be and we place the building uh Facing East because that's the best view as far as we were concerned so the building be facing the cemetery with the side facing towards Spart a yes and you don't believe we'll be able to see it from spart I I guess my point is we weren't going to put the long side of the building face and SP ad okay so we put that's only 52 ft that that side of the side of BU yeah and how how many feet is the front of the building approximately 230 ft okay now that's facing the cemetery correct correct that next question is what's the view from Main Street I don't know what it's going to be uh okay well it's built but that's that's several hundred feet to the east so I don't know okay thank you hello following along those lines when people are getting off of 15 and driving into Sparta um will that be like a monolith on top of a ridge will will it be like just perched on top of the ridge there I mean you won't be able to see it from Sparta AV and you won't be able to see it from 517 but after you get off of 15 and you're coming into town just passing the Stop and Shop which would be on your left there it would be on top of the ridge a four story apartment complex I don't think it's going to be any different than the Mohawk house or or any other higher building you know uh I really don't think it's going to stick out I think it's going to blend in we'll know better when you have all of your views diagrammed yes and Illustrated thank you what are the plans for handling school student bus pickups how is how is that going to be worked out because I understand there's a you know allocation estimate of students that would be there that would be going to the schools I don't know what that allocation is but based upon our other buildings I wouldn't say more than uh a couple children typically I think it's in here I think it's either eight or 11 I'm not sure but it's it's around that number typically this type of housing isn't conducive to school AG children couple in with a toddler buy a house in Sparta move out it it's just it it just doesn't work and uh based upon our other buildings we see very few School AG children we have a 30 un building in wanu that generates three schoolage children so and that's typical is that similar a bedroom layout excuse me does that building in wanu have a similar bedroom layout asart 29 units yes MH no three-bedroom units there there is an estimate though in your application that I think the number is not two it's higher so I'm curious because we have bus pickup in spart as you know I wasn't aware of that number but I'm just telling you from our experience yeah so that will need to be coordinated correct uh I would imagine they walk down the driveway and get the bus at the at the spot app but really haven't thought about that okay there any other questions from the Das okay so chairman I just wanted to uh swear in um Mike mrea and U our engineer U so Mike and Dave please raise your right hands do you swear airm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do I do okay and Dave state your name and your business address David B Simmons Jr s mm o NS 17 Plains Road Augusta New Jersey 07822 and Mike your name and spelling and business address Michael msta m s t TTA uh principal at Harbor Consultants offices at 320 North Avenue East franford New Jersey and Dave uh I didn't ask you before you testified before so would you just confirm that the statements you've given tonight are the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth help you got yes yes they are thank you and these these Oaths will carry our professional Witnesses through the uh 2024 year for all future hearings so we don't have to do it every hearing please go ahead uh this is next Mr chairman I guess your call on the next step um while we while we have um Mr MC up maybe it would make sense to uh let the go to the public and hear comments that they have so is anybody from the public wish to say anything ask of this applicant I mean this U of Mr M Nery wouldn't be a meeting if I didn't have traffic questions ma'am please raise your right hand do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do you stay your name and you don't have to give an address okay Beth frck Northshore Trail in Sparta um bear with me I have a couple questions how many parking spots per unit are allocated the engineer have the answer 7 okay and has a traffic study been done again the engineer t Okay this may be an engineer question too will the driveway be shared with Burger King I think my testimony was pretty I didn't hear you your answer so bear with me okay Burger King and the retail strip that's Burger King and the retail strip that's on the other side of the driveway both have easements now there's a curb cut or will be a curb cut to get in and out of Burg Burger King as well as the retail strip okay it's going to and is it going to be wide enough for two cars so like one goes and one goes out yes at the same time yes okay and then um do you know how traffic will be affected on both Sparta Avenue and on 517 again that's the engineer that'll answer that question okay and I know we just touched on this but school buses I know you just said that your proposed development or place is not generally one that the type that attracts students but if one or two live there I guess you're going to look to see how traffic will be impacted for school buses and stuff like that and also will a crosswalk and stuff like that be put in because it's a high volume area for traffic I don't know if you've spent a lot of time there but right there is where you have a left turn lane starting right by the house on Burger King to go up to continue on 517 in Sparta Avenue and straight to go on to 181 continue on Lafayette Road in 181 so you already have a lot of activity there and if you're putting in a residential area you're going to possibly have an increase in pedestrian traffic and sidewalks and stuff like that so we hope to have increase in pedestrian traffic number one number two the site was formly improved with a hotel but that hotel I've been here for 45 years Years it'll be 45 years on Valentine's Day it's very different from 20 years ago when it was senior living in a hotel it was not a full-time residential area for multi-bedroom homes or units it was a hotel that quite honestly did not get a lot of in and out I was here I know it didn't and seniors did not have two did not reside in two bedroom homes with you know a lot the potential for a lot of pedestrian traffic so or in and out so that's why I'm asking no I understand and I'm very familiar with the traffic patterns in front of the driveway there but as far as technical questions regarding how many trips or lefts in rights out that would be the engineer that would answer that okay and also traffic is very different now than it was when it was a hotel and when it was a senior place so that's again why I brought that up but either way was very different as most of the town the traffic patterns were very different it has but either way let's move on um is this particular area zoned for residential yes okay and also this may or may not be a you question but that's considered I believe 517 which is a County Road does the county have to be involved in traffic patterns and access to both Sparta Avenue and also the 517 bypass where Mohawk hous is not to my understanding there's no curb cut on 5117 so we're not accessing okay so 517 is also correct me if I'm wrong Sparta Avenue so that's why I'm asking and that's where Burger King is so that's again why I'm asking that question I thought you were talking about Mo where the mohawk mwk is the 517 bypass and then SP so that's why I was asking about that and then I was also asking about Sparta Avenue which maybe a county road as well that's why I'm asking again again that's and I'm not if I may add to that I'm I'm sorry uh spart Avenue is actually a state highway route 181 okay so that's why I so would the state be involved then in they're going to have to if the board approves it they'll have to get permits from the state to tie in the drainage utilities and what and traffic and stuff like that any kind of adjust um I already asked for did you say that there may did I hear that there may or may not be an access point across from the Mohawk House there will not be an access point across from the house okay and then if we could go back to the delivery you said that there would be one parking spot for deliveries and you said also in your other locations that the that this one spot and it wasn't a problem and if people are having deliveries they just pull up next to the building for the delivery so if they're having like food delivery or furniture delivery or whatever I just want to make sure is that going to be a safety issue for the residents and again kind of ties into traffic these guys will tell you I'm a stickler for traffic and safety and fire department and stuff like that I I just want to say this is a large investment into this community and we want to keep it safe and we will keep it safe the the fact of the matter is you have uh all the UPS trucks and the Amazon trucks pulling into driveways and parking on side streets every day uh this isn't going to be any different but we're going to be able to control it because we're going going to have onsite um controls that will eliminate any potential problems okay in a narrow one way in like in a very restricted area with one spot my concern is that if you have a tiny area with one parking spot for what you said I believe was deliveries and if you have multiple it's going to there's going to be a lot of turnover the reality of it is that not everyone is going to be home at the same time so to say that every space is going to be occupied and no there won't be any place to park that's that's not true either so I think it'll be fine I don't think there'll be any problems whatsoever we haven't had any problems in other buildings um it's just a sign at at times this is the way life is now I'm just making sure you know I've been here a long time I've seen a lot of accidents right at that spot so I just want to make sure that we're not putting in something because there's an area where you you know there's property and it's hey let's put a building in and then we wind up with you know something that really doesn't fit and I have one other question actually um are you with the exterior and how it looks it's what is the can we revisit the facade what is it is it I con I'm a little bit concerned that it's going to look look more like a prison or a jail or an institution I hope not nobody so is there do you have a picture of it that we can see now like do you have a drawing up there that I can see because I don't want to again I want to make sure that it's going to fit with Lake Mohawk because Lake Mohawk is very distinct has a very distinct look to it or it if it doesn't fit with like mohawk with Sparta because if it's like a brick and mortar but it's like gray with black it I testified before we're going to revisit that we're going to come back with elevations for all the building sides and we're come back with a new front for you to look at okay but again I just want to express concern from a long-term resident you know that's if I could I like to you know okay you have questions you know no I just wanted to make sure you know I'm concerned about that as well and you know that we're not looking at you know apprciate it uh uh you know prison type of building when you're pulling into the into town we don't build prisons okay thank you Kathy eows and scutters Road you please raise your hand do you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do and please spell your last name e BB i n k h u y s n Kathy if I could to just before you start um again if if if the questions are related to the engineer or or or the architect I think that would be the next person up so um if you could hold those if not feel free to ask away as you I'm not sure what questions would be if if they are if you could let me know that' be great and then I'll come back up and Reas those after the architect testifies if that is okay okay so I have a couple here uh the first one is how close is this building to adjacent property lines and what are the setbacks in this zone so that's kind of a question for the de uh for you sir okay but for the for the day do we know that for this Zone in a in a general sense you should wait for the engineer and then ask if he doesn't describe it adequately I will put in either for the engineer thank you are there alleys proposed around the building yes alleys what an Aly is sure um when I think of an alley it's a walkway of some width that would allow mobility of individuals and that's the engineer okay thank you sorry uh will the entire property be fenced I know you referred to the um you know the Zone there or the uh the pergola area that had uh has a fence around it but well the entire property be fenced no no um I did ask this last time but I'm not sure I got an answer so I'm going to ask it again today um will clothing or decorations Etc be allowed to be hung on the balconies clothing absolutely no clue okay okay and you had referred referred to it's under the company's control um can you explain more about that we're not going to hire an outside management company to manage property it's self-managed by us okay and do you have rules around what could be hung or not yes we do and what are those nothing nothing would be hung okay no decorations no towels no cloes okay want to keep it presentable appreciate that um I notice there's Green Space proposed and that was discussed today are pets allowed yes can you elaborate on what pets not discriminate okay um so is there a place for dogs to relieve themselves on the property and that's expected to be in the queen space where people are um enjoying no we have Woods all around the property okay so there would be a designated area or it would just be hey go on the woods no what we we do is we put up um containers with bags and take their dogs out or cats I don't know and if they do their business they pick it up in a bag and put put it in a container and we have our super empty okay so your expectation would be that um animals are allowed they're allowed to use the facilities and that their owners are taking care of that to maintain the property was that right correct wonderful okay is this 100% rental property I believe it was discussed last um time and what were the demographics for and that you're marketing to and I believe you mentioned divorced Dads Moms or moms the our our general population young professionals uh young couples possibly with toddlers retired individuals who lived in town all their life and sold her house and have place in Florida and want to maintain a residence here be close to their family divorce Market whether it be the husband or the wife there's a huge demand for that okay and you don't anticipate that population having children there again we we don't anticipate a lot of school okay this is probably an engineer question is there a traffic light being proposed or being conceived of uh in that space in front of the Burger King where the I believe the only Ingress and egress is right I believe so just checking um what if anything will prevent people without business in this building from entering prevent them from entering the parking lot tenant watching well if I was your tenant I wouldn't be watching are there anything else other than the tenants it's not like we have a property that's right on the road you have to find this Park complex in order to to want to go in so uh I don't see that being any I would say that because it is so far removed from the road that could be a draw for somebody who wouldn't want to be seen so something to consider there um you mentioned moving trucks is there enough space for moving trucks to get in that driveway and also allow for others that are leaving same with deliver trucks you're expecting that how wide is that um driveway engineer okay are there sidewalks for kids if we're talking about a bus stop Yes where would the sidewalks be engineer okay um you mentioned a fire pit um is that a safety concern for the board that being a fire pit in the middle of a space that's pretty much self-contained you know around it is there any concerns there no okay I think that might be all the questions I [Music] have all right I guess I'm done thank you thank you Captain anybody else Denny Derek's tap into Sparta you just mentioned a moment ago 100% Sor right we just SW at the last hearing on this so you understand you're still under yes I do thank you um 100% rental correct I thought that there was a requirement for percentage of units to be sold in order to make it take advantage of the uh larger footprint impervious coverage and height think Mr chairman if I may address that I did speak with Mr Collins today we are not exceeding the coverage requirement we are below the coverage requirement that is something that Mr Burton the civil engineer will testify to so we will not need the uh four sale units the project will be 100% rental because because you'll be under the impervious coverage you'll talk to more specifics on the numbers and stuff numbers you'll hear but the the ordinance basically said if you have 80% coverage this is what you have if it's 70 or below you don't need to do it we're below the 70% Mr Burton will testify I'd be interested to hear all of those specifications because for store I thought was also part of that and the setbacks the very tight setbacks on all sides thank you capped out on questions it's an easy one I promise I'm sorry have I been capped out on questions it has nothing to do with traffic if if you'd like to to approach them with time feel free I'd like to if if you could though you know like to keep it you know okay Mr mayman you were sworn at the last hearing on this weren't you I was plus holding so you understand you're still on the roath still on the and just state your name then Adrian mirman go ahead um I have a question I heard this while I was still on the on the YouTube feed so the question may have been answered already um you mentioned the advantous location of this building placed in the surroundings the cemetery no complaints from those neighbors tree cover around the building so it would not intrude on the visual um beauty of spart but I would like to know how high is the building and how high are the trees surrounding the building that you expect to plant well the architect a question as to the building the trees I don't know if the engineer knows or not but that would be engineer because you you said that with some confidence so I figured since you you said it you would know the answer know the answer to what what kind of plantings would be uh proposed around this building how will it be visually protected from the various Vantage points I thought your question was what was the height existing tree well maybe so but there's going to be future trees also I imagine so I would like to know if the trees are expected to cover the visual impact of a four-story building and a very modern looking building how high will those streets be will there be true coverage answer that there a landscape plan in his submission and the reason I bring this up and this is for for the days oh about 30 years ago there was the development on schooly mountain and schooly Mountain was completely paved over and no trees can mitigate the visual blight in for miles and miles around so if the building a four-story building of a very modern and has been called prison-like appearance um if that Towers above any trees that we have in spara the light pollution but also the visual blight will be considerable and I I brought it up since you brought it up um about 45 minutes ago um my other questions are by and large for the other professionals although question about the population you plan to attract When you mention divorce and you mentioned not only men but also women but you don't expect children to live with their parents even if in a single parent um setting it's been experience that uh children come for the weekend and then go back to the mother or vice versa and if the divorcees are women as she just you know specified the children will still be somewhere else there're going to be children if you have devores single single parent households they're going to be children so saying oh trust us it hasn't happened in our other buildings I find hard to swallow I'd like to be a little careful here and Mr colins I'm going to ask some help you know when we start talking demographics and who you're advertising to tends to go outside to me the the scope of what we're looking at here uh so Mr Collins I'm going to ask you some guidance on this well you know the the questions um as long as they're questions they're they're with in the scope of this man's okay direct testimony um I think way you're getting at Mr chairman is that the land use law and the ordinances do not allow the board to determine whether people going have children or not and and have what the number is and that's generally true is that the zoning allows families it allows uses it allows people to have children it allows so what what this debate about may be about the estimates of the number of school age population which there are ways to do that estimate and presumably the applicant's engineer will be talking about his estimate that he made so maybe that's a better witness for cross-examination by Mr mirman okay thank you okay so my questions about the population we can expect using that complex is what will the traffic not only car traffic but food traffic and also um what kind of population flow will go through that building are these essentially oneyear rentals somebody down on his luck divorce person or a professional who just needs a quick housing and then moves on again is that a stable population and what will that do to the quality of life in that neighborhood try to just ask this witness what your question is and that that sounded like a question so maybe he can address that question yeah so uh since you run exclusively these buildings around the state you know that is your your business model what is the turnover of your buildings I would say three to five years sry pick up the mic again it's not working it's not working maybe yeah stand by that and speak into it I know it's hard but is hello y I would say three to five years but we have some tenants that been in building for 40 years so it's kind of hard to say um I used to own and run two apartment buildings in New York City 40 units total and I know turnover can be a real problem not in New York City you have rent control um some buildings have rent control some buildings do not um and some neighborhoods are more stable than others so um what will the U expected Market rent be for say a two bedroom we don't know again my testimony was based upon the new building that's the buildings have been built in Newton two bedrooms are probably around 2500 plus utilities okay just uh you mentioned that retired couples who could no longer afford property taxes in Sparta would move to Florida buy a house there and have $2,500 a month rental unit in Sparta the flow of information did not strike me as being truly factual is there a need for this kind of building in Sparta or is this more business model build it and they will come do we need do we have people who cannot afford our taxes move to Sparta and have a rental unit in Sparta I question the need for this building I know that that is not your purview but I question the need for the building and I question the flow of the presentation in which we're giving all the other buildings work out for us why don't spot have to accept what we have to offer that's my concern I know that's more a commment than a question but um from your presentation I thought you were talking about your other buildings not about the need for spart to have this building well there's obviously a need because you have no multi family buildings in town zero so then it's the old question build or or or what the old observation build it and they will come no I would take the tenants that live in Sparta renting units in Newton and bring it back to sporta and then in Newton in the Mt apartment excuse me and what will happen to the NP Department in New when you bring them here to SP I have not that's their problem that's not that's their problem and again if I could it's you know when you look at what we're doing here it's you know is it a permissible building as opposed to is there a need um and does it meet the requirements if it is a permissible building um so like I'd like to try to keep the conversation along those lines if we we couldn't I understand I was I was and and and I'm done with my comments thank you um this was more to to make an observation about how to interpret the T of money tonight thank you correct thank you and and for the app okay I mean the information that you shared regarding the type of tenants that was just for information try to give a perception or an understanding of what type of tenants we shall expect it's not your fitting your particular business model you're you're You're Building multif Family rentals and that's the market and that's the market the Market's going to dictate who could afford it who could come in and and move there's no restrictions Tom if I may there's no restrictions I we're getting into some really you know off off kill record uh conversations here you're getting into steering you're getting into a lot of other other conversations here he's building the applicant gave information out to the public but I think it's whether it was for informational purposes or if it was specific if it's specific then we got we we're into a different conversation here and we're spending we're spending a good half hour on why don't we just let why don't we let let the witness finish if they want to do redirect they can do redirect there's a degree to which questions that are related to the direct testimony are relevant and that's sort of what happened with the questions it's not time for Testimony that that was a little Beyond questioning uh let the witness finish and let's get to the engineer who presumably has the more detail and just just to answer your question I think everybody on a day knows people that looking for apartments in this area it it's it's just not available that's why we chose Sparta we love Sparta the the the look The feel everything and we think it's going to be a real winner and uh hopefully everything works out okay looks we have one more question Rick fle Rick we you SW at the last meeting on okay please raise your right hand do you swear Fromm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth CH to help you God I do and please go a uh Mr frinkle Please spell your last name f i n kle e thank you please go ahead yeah just a quick question uh what would the rental model be is it a month-to-month or annual leases or um what do you what do you plan that to be annual leases okay only I bring that question to the to the table because spart is strongly considering putting a ban on short term rentals we love having tenants for long term I'm sure you do and you said three to five years but if someone is in the middle of moving from one house to the next or you know not sure where they're going or divorced or whatever Sparta is strongly considering putting a ban on anything less than a year so I just bring that to the board and also to the developer thank you y thank you Mr okay anybody else okay thank you for your time thank you I I have one question actually sorry uh you mentioned the fire pits and the barbecue um was that reviewed by the sparta fire department Bureau because I think when they did their report that was not conceptually on there I'm just thinking about location that was on the site plan I think everybody missed it because it was at the bottom of one of the pages it was the detail at the bottom but it was on the original site plan okay that the fire department re reviewed okay that's it's how close is it to the building we're talking about a fire open fire pit and a barbecue area I'm assuming charcoal not gas that's right that that's why we put it across the parking lot so it's far away from the building okay if you want a measurement no just beyond the fence of that area that you show up here yes what yeah approximately how far is that that's the other side of the parking lot Dean I think I think if it would help to just use the engineer for this because this witness is not the person who should give calculations of distance okay Engineers should do that or surveyors but we have an engineer coming up okay thank you thank you thank you okay would you like to bring I think we should have the engineer Mr chairman okay tell you what let me move why don't you sit here and be closer to the [Music] easel and if I could just just say where the reason we asked that you both use the mic uh this is being streamed and without using a mic the people at home aren't able to hear what's being said sir please you raise your right hand do you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God yes I do and please state your name and address and spell your last name Kalisto Burton c a l i s o Burton b r t i n my office is at 66 Glenn Avenue in Glenrock New Jersey thank you Mr Burton could you briefly provide the board with your uh educational and professional experience please sure I have a degree in civil engineering from Villanova University a master's degree in engineering from renair poly Technic Institute I'm licensed as a professional engineer in New Jersey and five other states um I'm the principal of Burton engineering and have been since 1986 and we have about 40 employees I've uh this is what I do Land Development traffic engineering uh some other things too but um um I I happen to be the engineer on the prior application that uh for this property but Mr McNerney is a longtime client so it was a coincidence that I'm here again and thank you the board the board will accept his qualifications as a professional engineer so you're so you're fully familiar with the property Mr Burton having testified here before on the prior project well yeah what I remember okay why don't you go through uh sure so I believe Mr McNerney described the surrounding area why don't you tell us and what exists on the site why don't you describe to the board the site plan and how it functions and then we'll get into the details yes is Mr ner we go as Mr McNerney discussed um this is a flag lot it's about 2 and A2 acres in size um it it has 33t of Frontage on Sparta Avenue um which is as we discussed earlier State Highway the driveway exists so we're not doing a new driveway we're using the existing driveway and there's a long road that that comes up from the driveway I I have on the board a drawing c2.4 from the site plan it's the same drawing that was submitted so it doesn't have to be marked there an exhibit I'm sorry it's not colored I hope you can see it so Sparta Avenue is on the left side um North is to the upper right corner you can see the north Arrow so we have Sparta Avenue and then we have a long driveway that's about 700 ft that's the existing driveway that comes up to the uh the former Motel former Assisted Living um there's quite a grade change about a 30 foot grade change from from um Sparta Avenue till we get to the top but that road is again it's long and it's got a gentle 5% slope uh to get up there so it's not a it's not a very steep driveway although it is a driveway um in addition to the building that was located on top or the remnants of the building there's also a a parking lot uh that's there or the remnants of a parking lot um there are plenty of trees on the site and I can see by some of these Evergreens that are on the site that they're probably were planted when the hotel was made they're they're very old 80 F feet tall um so there there's the area as you come up the driveway um okay so Burger King is off of Sparta Avenue on the right side of the driveway as you come up the driveway there's some Woods along the back of the Burger King but the Burger King parking lot goes pretty much up to the property line but when you get beyond that as the driveway moves back on the bottom of the page is the cemetery and that area is wooded and all the land on the north side of the driveway behind the Burger King is wooded it's it's a mature Forest until we get up to the top where there's a clearing and then there's trees all around the perimeter um and you know we did we we search there's no Wetlands or threaten endangered species and as Mr mcnarney said uh the site passed a uh phase one so there there was nothing found there is an old septic system on the site uh up at the top of the driveway that system will be removed so what we propos as Mr McNerney testified to is to remove the building um remove the septic system uh we're going to maintain the driveway widen it and bring it up to current standards and build this four-story building that's about like we said 130 by 55 ft and and do the new parking lot that parking lot has 72 parking spaces now the amenity area so we could see as we come up the driveway as we get to the top of the driveway we put the amenity area right at the top at the top of the driveway opposite the building so well it's 120 um 150 160 feet from the building I I I'll get into that since it's been a topic of discussion the goal of this application was to minimize disturbance of the property now I mentioned I was the engineer on the prior application which was for 70 units that layout was handed to me and I I made the best of it that I I I could um but that required extensive site work extensive excavation the extra 30 units probably had $3 million worth of extra construction costs and that's one of the reasons why I never went anywhere because it didn't pencil out and so when Mr McNerney came to us us with the property the idea was what can we do to work with the property the way it is and not you know rape the whole site I mean we were taking tens of thousands of yards of soil out of the site it sand so it was marketable but um it was it was a lot of disturbance I mean we had 25 foot Cuts right along the the uh the um Cemetery property so the goal was to work with the property so we have very little disturbance when we get to the top of the site we're just leveling off where the parking lot and the building we're expanding it a little bit but we're not touching the woods along the slope and we're not touching anything so we could move the um amenity space alongside the building say maybe move the dumpsters and put them over there but then we're cutting down trees and we have to do pretty high retaining walls because that's a pretty steep slope from the side of the building down to the driveway as you head directly towards spart Avenue that's that's a steep slope that would be tough to walk you're not walking it you're climbing it so we didn't want to disturb that land um in that Woods it's a m I said I would call it a mature Forest there's a lot of small trees but then there's some very big uh mature trees 80 feet tall the evergreens are probably 60 feet tall to answer the question the building's I think about 45 46 feet so there are trees on on the the sparta Avenue side that are much taller and then wrap around the the property and from the cemetery uh there's only a little bit of vegetation there so that's where the building would be most observable that would be uh I guess to the southeast so that's the view over the cemetery from the front here you could see down across the valley but then in the summer in the winter time now you you could see the street but in the summertime you're not well from the parking lot you're not going to see the street maybe from the roof because all the trees will grow um we're proposing trees I'm I'm a little out of order here but this is what was critical we're proposing trees and we'll get to the Landscaping towards the end but I saw that there's an opportunity to plant some more trees over time to grow and uh and and and help screen the building but you're not seeing this building from Sparta Avenue by the Burger King so um in addition to the 72 car parking lot the building there's a trash enclosure area here two dumpsters for recycling and trash I'm not sure how we do it here in town some towns separate them others don't um there is the loading space that was discussed as we get to the top of the driveway and head straight back towards the building we have a loading space over there um I'll talk about the loading space we do have two signs proposed one's down near the entrance of the driveway and then there's another one right at the top of the driveway small signs 12 square fet in area um but anyway we have some signs um so we'll just jump into the parking um Mr McNerney said and I guess the architect said last time there are seven one-bedroom units 31 two-bedroom units and two three bedroom units and the three-bedroom units are required by affordable housing it's not from my clients who have affordable housing units the three-bedrooms sit empty um I have a client he's got several buildings in wanu we're doing several there now and they just don't rent because I guess with the income limits or whatever um those don't go that fast it's not a regular family coming in with a bunch of kids it's got to be affordable family so anyway just just on a side um the and and this is for the audience more them for the board the state of New Jersey has developed parking standards or or what they call the residential site Improvement standards um planners developers um officials Engineers got together and developed this book so that real estate The Rules for residential development were consistent across the state yes there's variations from one part of the state to another but certain engineering um requirements remain consistent and one of those is parking so when you qu you're going to question why I'm saying the numbers we have but this was this was studied by professors and by by Professionals in in in the field so um the parking requirements for a one-bedroom unit is 1.8 spaces per unit a two-bedroom unit is two parking spaces per unit and a three-bedroom unit is 2 .1 parking spaces um and in that number a quarter space per unit um would be attributable to guest parking so this is not my opinion this is what's been promulgated by the state of New Jersey and New York uses it and Connecticut uses it and and other states use pretty much the same standards so when we multiply the number of units by the appropriate parking ratio that I mentioned we have a requirement of 79 parking spaces I mentioned there are 72 parking spaces on the site because something else came around last year was a requirement for electric vehicle charging stations the state of New Jersey wants to be moved forward with affordable I mean not affordable well they want to be they're probably the best in the country with affordable housing but also with electric vehicle uh infrastructure so the state has said if you provide electric vehicle parking well you have to provide electrical electric vehicle park uh charging stations we give you a credit a certain credit for parking so we know it's going to cost a lot of money to put them in so we'll let you uh we'll give you credit so you don't have to put you so you can get a deduction on the amount of parking spaces all right so we have 12 electric vehicle parking spaces they double you could use them for electric vehicles or not and um we get a credit of 10% of the required parking so the credit is seven parking spaces so I said we have 79 required we get that credit of seven means we only have to provide 72 parking spaces and so that's what was done here um and um where the also there's a a a program on how they're they're they're installed I I I think it's six years years is that right six years you have to excuse me every five years well you have to put in a certain number you start with a third and then you you put it in over a year several years so they're all made ready so the electric is there but we don't have to put all the charges there um uh anyway some people are doing it up front but it just that's those are the rules so we have 72 physical parking spaces which is equivalent to 79 parking spaces um when you the credit and so we require 79 parking spaces now um I'll just move into access and circulation um so there is a sidewalk proposed from Sparta Avenue all the way up along the north side of the parking lot to the top of the hill and then um we cross the driveway at the top of the hill and go along the property line and then back in front of the building so we have pedestrian access from the building all the way down to Sparta Avenue uh the statistics and I I I'm not going to get into the statistics I just want to mention it that the state of New Jersey's also studied um the student age population at apartment buildings and there statistics I I don't have them if they're in the environmental impact statement I think we probably got them from a planner uh and I don't recall what they are but usually some you know Elementary School maybe some high school kids and middle school kids um but they would all walk to the street in my work in other towns school buses will not come up on private property and in most towns you have to you have a limit of two miles to walk we're walking a thousand feet so the children would if there are school children would walk down to uh Sparta Avenue um we do have a drawing I'm going to flip this to drawing 2.7 I've been looking at drawing 2.2 2.7 is our vehicle circulation plan we show a fire truck traversing the site so the driveway we're making is a 24t wide driveway that's a standard driveway roads are 28 ft we allowed to have parking on one side so uh and anyway as is the driveway that exists there now it's a wide driveway it's a two-way driveway off of Sparta Avenue alongside the burger I'll just mention this the Burger King now has two driveways connecting to the property they're both exit driveways the one driveway for the drive-thru Lane we show the Burger King on the site sorry Burger King is shown on the site um we you show the exit driveway for the drive-thru so all drive-thru traffic exit out onto this common driveway and then there's another exit driveway that comes out onto the commor exit only and then the Burger King has a two-way driveway on Sparta Avenue on the other side of the driveway is is is the U strips shopping center that's got an open parking lot all paved uh we're going to work with their parking layout and put two curb cuts the control traffic so it's not all over the drawings show two curve Cuts there with our crosswalk across those uh driveways it's it's it's it's it's wide enough now to handle two-way traffic and I'll I'll talk a little bit about traffic um to make sure we hear what our client said is our client will maintain the access because it's not paved it's in bad shape our client will maintain that driveway imagine there'll be some cost sharing with the did it die again yeah it's like my uh my pointer is dying so um they will maintain it because it'll be in better condition than it is right now it was not plowed it's not salted um any because I went up there tonight just to check it out um uh also we will have a bicycle rack outside and there'll be some storage rooms inside the building for bicycle and sometimes people bring the bicycles and bring them into their units so we will have um bike parking um oh mentioning this uh back to this drawing C 2.7 um it shows a fir truck coming up and driving around the parking lot um that would be the same as a box truck um we don't expect we don't have large moving vans this is not a 2500t house it's a 700 or 1,000 sqt apartment usually uh deliver iies or moving comes in the form of a 12T or 14t U-Haul type truck uh that's how people move in and so the loading space we have is more than sufficient now Mr McNerney mentioned that um turnover is three to five years that's great so what do we have a move in once a month once every three months so that parking space isn't really used that often for movein and um the management will control when people move in and move out so the other deliveries we have are the you know I guess door Dash and you know Amazon and ups and that sort of stuff so how often do they come they don't come in even if they each come once a day that's three trucks four deliveries and so pulling into that loading zone is more than enough if we have more loading zones it's a waste of real estate it's a waste of pavement it's really not need needed and the quick deliveries sometimes someone may pull right up to the front door and and go in um to the to the lobby um anyway but so I feel that one parking space one loading space is sufficient more loading space again is just a waste of pavement um all right so I mentioned that we're going to keep the gring we're not but with this with this footprint of the parking lot in the building we're not really impacting the woods along the side of the driveway as we come up the hill we're not really impacting that it's it's pretty much in the level area um there will be some grading behind the building the property behind the building that's to the north northwest straight up the page uh there's an easement to grade out on that property was with the prior application um because that property Rises up my guess is that that's the high spot in the area that when if and when that property is ever developed they'll probably cut the whole hill down and uh Quarry the the the sand and gravel that's there uh but anyway so so that's the extent of the grading um we did do a calculation it was requested of us we have about 90 9800 uh cubic yards of excess fill that will be yeah 9,800 that will be be taken out and one thing is we widen this driveway uh we will be putting you could see there's a retaining wall along the uphill side there's a retaining wall there now that in some places it's it's dilapidated but in order to keep the grade will put a little retaining wall and it's three and a half ft high it's not a tall retaining wall along there and again we're trying to work with the topography um so we are increasing the amount of pavement but not by very much we we have over an acre of disturbance so it's called a major development but the increase in impervious area is less than a quar acre the only reason why that's important because it it triggers certain requirements for the detention system uh which we're we're meeting anyway so um we we we have to reduce the rate of runoff and we do that with an underground detention system we've done that um one set of the rules say you don't have to do water quality but another set of rules say you do we are doing water quality so they what they have to do green infr infrastructure so by water quality I mean that in the water there's silt maybe there's touches of oil um another thing we don't care about it that much here in New Jersey but our office in Massachusetts gets involved uh phosphorus and other contaminants that are in the rainwater or from the runoff that the that you want to clean so we have a a a a filtering system that has certain media that the water passes through and is cleaned before it goes into our underground detention system which is a recharge system now we've sized the system as if there's going to be no recharge and then it'll overflow and go out because that's the way it is that's the way they do it in New Jersey all right so but we know based on the test pits that were done some time ago that we're on a sandy soil so there we we did a retail Center in Oakland and I've gone there and again sandy soil there's never been water that left the property because it'll be absorbed we don't design I mean we the design assumes that water's going to flow out of the property so but but the reality is that a lot of it's going to be infiltrated and that's what we want to do we want to recharge the groundw water we don't want it flowing to the rivers and causing flooding we want to like I said recharge the groundwater in the acon first anyway so we have a large system it's in front of the um um outdoor amenity space where our detention system is so we have we collect the roof water roof waterer in this part of the state is clean that goes directly to our detention system and recharges and then we have the rest of the parking lot which goes through this um water um treatment unit and then it goes into the underground detention system and then we have what we call an outlet control structure that that that controls the rate at which water leaves the site so that's how we do it we you know narrow it down so we got a a big pipe coming in and a little pipe going out so the system fills up and then over time it as the water as the rate of water that comes into the system uh reduces we still have that constant flow going out the bathtub and then eventually it um it it'll empty and so that's how the system is designed so that's how we reduce the rate at which water leaves the site just so we're clear Kalise though that all the water that you know from the impervious surfaces is captured on the site and will go through this detention system yes all that's all from up top and then we have a couple of inlets that go down along the driveway that's collecting the water that's bypass it's downhill so we can't really capture it and that's included in the calculations and we're taking it out we're connecting into Sparta Avenue which is a state road that means the department of uh Transportation will be reviewing besides your engineer reviewing all our drainage calculations the Department of Transportation will be reviewing them as well and they make sure we follow all the state regulations just as well as your engineer does right um so uh we our utilities will will bring gas up from uh Sparta Avenue um there happens to be a utility pole right now I guess that service the uh prior building it's right at the bend when you come in from Sparta Avenue there's a bend in the driveway and there's a utility pole there so we'll pick up our power from that point and go underground up the hill which is the only disturbance we're doing in that Hill we're going to go up the hill to the building with our utilities the same our sewer will come down as I said we'll get rid of the septic system will'll uh bring the sewage system down and uh at the beginning of tonight's meeting there was discussion about a tww a treatment works approval will'll have to go through the same process should the board approve it so this way the DPW looks at it the treatment plant looks at it to make sure there's capacity and and that'll be reviewed by again that'll go down to the state um with our our power we also have an electric generator gas- powerered generator off the side of the building um it's not required but it's a good thing to have so we'll have generator for the life safety um portions of the building um if you if you have the drawings there and you want to go to drawing 2. um two no not 2.2 the Landscaping is on sheet uh 2.5 and so uh I'll go back to the site plan um in in the parking lot um well we we have some new trees around the parking lot um and trees behind uh the building these are uh deciduous trees um and a couple of decorative trees in the amenity area um I as I mentioned after looking at it uh again today when there was no vegetation the only time when I've been here in the past it's been wooded and I could see the opportunity to uh clean up some of the woods and plant some additional properly evergreen trees around the property and so um I'm just saying that I Al ask the client we'll do that I mean what's on the plan I think is sufficient we have evergreen trees Along by the generator uh but we'll we're we're offering to add some of that to the plan um there was a discussion and I really wasn't sure about this about the the waivers before we get to the waivers well I was just going to do that one but go ahead though uh with regard to the the Landscaping you indicated on the Landscaping plan there are a number of deciduous and other trees that you're proposing correct correct and you've already test testified to the existing wooded areas that the intention is not to disturb those areas uh correct correct and then in addition I believe you testified that the trees that are surrounding the property now are quite mature that are in excess of 40 feet oh yeah 60 80 feet yeah there there are some very large trees out there and the evergreen trees are probably full height 50 60 feet now with the deciduous trees that you were adding what what is the planting height and what is the rate of growth um um we're planting the the the the deciduous trees that we're planting will be planted 10 to 12 feet there's a total of uh 32 trees so there's the shade trees there's 14 of those they'll be planted 10 to 12 feet tall and then we have some ornamental trees like a flowering dogwood and and a Cherry Tree um they they come in a little smaller they're 5 to 6 feet tall and then we have um evergreen trees but there's only six of those those are 8 to 10 feet so those are pretty decent sizes for initial planting and usually what's the rate of growth uh for the Deciduous and evergreen trees um these um uh these evergreen trees probably around a foot maybe a little less a year what about the Deciduous um tell you the truth I'm really not sure I'm really not sure on the Spees yeah yeah yeah I usually because people worry about you know sh uh um screening and we don't look at deciduous trees for for screening and then there's a lot of shrubs around around the property now you wanted to touch touch on one of the waivers with regard to the Landscaping yeah yes we there was a waiver uh regarding the percentage of landscaping within the parking lot and and I'm not I just want to be sure on how that's calculated that doesn't include the trees around the perimeter of the parking lot just what's in the middle of the parking lot okay so um we're at like 3% and we're supposed to be at 5% so what to eliminate that waiver um what I thought we could do is in the parking row farthest from in the building um we have space to put two more parking spaces and then I could take two spaces out of the center row of parking uh probably on the right side and make that Landscaping so we put a few more shade trees in the parking lot um we don't we're not increasing the amount of impervious area but we're adding uh a couple of shade trees um there was one more since we're at waivers there was one more waiver about the distance along the uh the Norther or northeasterly property line I guess we we we weren't aware of this the uh the sidewalk is 4 feet from the property line and we're required to be 5 feet so if we're approved I I'll take the whole parking lot and shift at a foot so we can avoid that waiver so I'm trying to get rid of two waivers or at least one so just so that we're clear we could meet the 5% Landscaping required within the parking areas M and that we could also shift the parking area to maintain a 5 foot landscape strip between the parking and property line correct and there's one more waiver we might as well get to it since it deals with parking I mean uh the parking area um is required a 4ot separation between the parking and the sidewalk and I'm not sure if that's right up against the building and and the rsis standard when you have parking up against the sidewalk the sidewalk six feet to compensate for the overhang and just like out here in this parking lot you park up against the sidewalk so I it I could see in other areas but not in that area where you want fouret of landscaping because you get out of the car you walk to the sidewalk and you got to trudge through the Landscaping to get to the sidewalk so I think it's appropriate to have the sidewalk in front of the building up against the parking I mean that makes for easier access correct yes yes okay all right and while you're on the waivers I know we we beat this one pretty good uh according to the standard four loading spaces are required and one is provided and I believe you testified that would be sufficient for the building yes uh uh okay uh lighting before why don't you go to lighting then we'll go to traffic sure so um what we're proposing is a lantern style light uh I think I um I think it was part of your landscape features the difference between the new lanterns and the old lanterns the old lanterns the bulb used to be in the middle so you see the light source the new lanterns it's an LED light with the LEDs at the top shining down so when you're on the side of it you're not looking at the bulb anymore so it does better job of cut off so we don't do U light pollution and then we can manipulate what direction those lights will go in so we have those lights are placed all along the driveway to provide lighting and then up into the parking lot we're using uh the same Lantern type lights um we kept our lighting levels pretty low um we have a 3ot maximum foot candle and then a um uh the average is um 1 to 2 and A2 minut between oh the a or the menum the average is one and a half and that's pretty low that's you know we don't normally get that low so we kept it low because again we're being sensitive to the area uh sometimes um actually there's a requirement to keep it at a minimum of one um so we we can adjust it and raise it up but I thought this was good to keep the light level uh down in that area right um and I mentioned that we have the two signs and neither of them are illuminated so it's just you know uh ambient light there have been the questions regarding uh the traffic Mr Burton were you able to do an analysis of the traffic um I I I my office did do um something we did not do a formal traffic study I don't believe we we had old traffic counts um but let me just talk about the traffic um uh so the the Burger King's traffic Peak is lunchtime although they have a a breakfast um menu it's really the lunchtime traffic our Peak or our Peak being the residential is in the morning and in the evening right so those two uses who are using the same driveway don't compete um and then you have the retail I guess but that parking lot behind the retail empties out onto this driveway but all the I guess the next three uh commercial buildings all the parking lots are connected which is a good thing so people don't have to go out on thepart Avenue come on and off so that that's a good thing it helps distribute traffic um generally the peak hour traffic for 40 unit building is about a third of the unit so what's that 13 13 vehicles most of them leaving so maybe 10 leaving the site in the morning in an hour so that's in one hour so that's not a heck of a lot of traffic so um that's the type of traffic that would be generated by this uh we do have to go to the Department of Transportation but their review of traffic will be what we call a letter of no interest um we will give them the trip generations and the trip Generations I'm not making up numbers these are numbers that were established by not only the department Transportation but the Institute of Transportation Engineers on what kind of traffic a building like this will generate so let's let's try to be a little clearer here since we are going to be on a state highway we're going to have to provide traffic information to the Department of Transportation my understanding is is that the Department of Transportation relies on its own numbers but those numbers are based upon the numbers that have been published by The Institute of Traffic Engineers Transportation Engineers correct correct excuse me sir can you use the microphone oh I'm turn it around let me see if this one will work again comes on and off uh so that would be based upon information that would be contained in the published data of the uh Institute of uh Transportation Engineers correct yes all right now you made a few statements that a a 40 unit development would have two peak hours one in morning one in the evening uh can you give us a little more Precision on that what what do you perceive the morning and evening peak hours to be uh probably around 7:30 to 8:30 in the morning would be the peak hour uh yeah 7:30 to 8:30 um and then in the evening somewhere between 5 and 6 um in the evening it depends how far people work and you also indicated that for a 40 unit development it would be roughly a third of trips by Vehicles during that peak hour correct correct and they would be certain trips in and certain trips out right okay uh and again that would also have to be reviewed by the uh do now you also said that the this would be uh I I I forget your exact words but uh do would not consider is a major Access Project correct correct and in order to determine determine the major Access Project does the do have a certain standard that standard be I believe of a 100 peak hour trips correct all right so based upon your analysis and your understanding of uh the data the published data that do will rely upon this will not require major access because it is significantly less than a hundred Vehicles right and and we use that because we're using the existing driveway the driveway exists if it was a new driveway it'd be a an access permit but the driveway exists Okay so we've also heard various questions relating to the impact on spot Avenue which is the state highway along with 5117 uh which I believe is to the north if I have my direction cor my directions correct so let's talk a little bit about the impact of the existing traffic flow and the impact and how this will work okay um I I mentioned how the the Burger King operates there's no restrictions uh for left or right turns in or out and that would remain the same so um we there will be more traffic associated with it um I don't know if this is the right term but but the it would be below the D Do's threshold for review it would be considered di Minimus um but the more important thing is that we're not coinciding with the peak hours of the Burger King which is the use that uses the driveway the most I'm not sure what the retail Center next door uses but I'm sure it's it's it's not that much traffic and do you perceive any impact on the traffic flow on SP Avenue well there's always going to be an impact because we're going to add another car so when I say my my term is not a detrimental impact yes there'll be a few more cars exiting and entering the driveway but it's not going to be to the point where it's going to be a significant detrimental impact which is the threshold that we have to uh abide by now it's also my understanding that you provided the traffic testimony with the prior app application no I did not there all all that was provided with the prior application was a the letter of no interest what the trip generation was and that was done I think by Dolan and Dean okay and that letter of no interest was from the do uh well that was the application and that was a 70 unit building so this is a 40 unit building so it'll be less thank you uh there were also why don't we go to I believe it's the uh your first sheet you have the zoning criteria for this Zone uh I'm going to ask you to go through the zoning table uh and I believe when uh the drawings were prepared I apologize because this is not working uh I think the battery keeps going dead uh when this drawing was prepared I asked to what is the required uh what was what's being proposed and what was previously approved oh correct and um okay so um there's no requirement for lot area um there's no requirement um well okay but but again the the the lot is what I say one and a two two and a half acres um there is a small dedication uh because for whatever reason well it's just the way it used to be um the lot line the property goes out to the center of the highway so that portion it's hatched on the site plan that has that will be dedicated to the dot that's the way property used to be you went to the center the right of way the right of way was a right across someone else's property that's the history so center lines used to go to the the right the property line used to go to the center line of Highway of of Roads anyway I I if I could just I just want to make sure that we're everyone's clear on one thing um so when you talk previously approved previously approved for a different application but not this application not this it's the same property not this application so the previously approved was the 70 unit development right put it into context we wanted to see what was required just as as a comparison right because okay yes this is a less intense okay so it's a it's an Just for information as a comparison okay thank you yes yes it's just a comparison and and that's all on on on drawing C 1.1 um so the allowable maximum impervious coverage for four story building is 80% and we're at 61% coverage oh the other one was 68% but we're below the 80% impervious coverage uh the maximum density is 30 units per acre uh wait a second okay we're at oh it's okay so we're allowed to have 77 units we have 40 units it's not calculated to how many units an acre I'm sorry um okay the question was raised about the setbacks the side yard setback which would be the setback behind the building because our front yard is Sparta Avenue so that whole line on the north side of the property is our side yard is 10 ft and the building is no the building well the patio and the balcony is 10 ft but the building's 148 14' 8 in the rear yard setback is required to be 20 ft and we are 20 ft the rear yard would be the property line on the right side of the drawing and we are 20 ft that's the the corner of the building touches the setback and again the last building was 20.7 um and so the minimum front yard setback is 50 feet that would be the distance off of the RightWay line for Sparta Avenue we're 700 I mean 413 ft so we're we're set back farther than the front yards set back okay um and then we're required to have six affordable units and we do have uh six affordable units okay and another requirement is that that we have a sidewalk connecting to the public Street which we do um Street improvements now we we are improving the road all the way down to Sparta Avenue but I just we say we comply I think technically Street improvements would be sidewalks and Landscaping and that sort of thing but our whole Frontage is our driveway with the curb return so that's all we can do so I I said we comply I think you agree that we comply um um we were supposed to have landscaping area um 30% of the impervious um we're so on this site we're required to have 047 um acres and we have 0 48 and I'm going to add couple more square feet to the site plan okay and we met the parking requirements so with regard to the standards that were established by the ordinance for this Zone uh Mr Burton the application as depicted on the on the uh project as depicted on the site plan complies correct yes there are no variances we comply and we discussed four waivers two of the waivers relating to the landscape will be eliminated based upon your testimony and there will be a waiver required for providing for one loading air uh space and also the waiver required for the sidewalk to be adjacent to the parking correct now based upon your testimony uh and to your knowledge uh your landscaping and lighting plan complies with Sparta's ordinances yes and the storm water will comply with uh Sparta's ordinances and the njde stand correct and an application dies again and an application will be required to the Department of Transportation uh for the Ingress in agress to the site correct yes but based upon your review and your testimony this evening uh the appropriate approval should be provided by the Department of Transportation for such Ingress and egress and also the uh storm sore connection correct okay I have no further questions for Mr Burton I um may I ask a question please I'm a little concerned about the thought of the kids walking to Sparta Avenue and waiting for school buses conceivably you would have an lower elementary upper elementary middle school high school buses they are right next to the Burger King while where they're coming out for their morning uh Breakfast Club and then of course there's a Pope John bus coming there so to have the kids just hanging out they're waiting for the bus on Sparta Avenue just you know is there anything that is safe that you could put into play along Sparta Avenue so that the kids you know would know where to stand and presumably there would be some parents there too hopefully sometimes there is sometimes there isn't depending on what parents have to where parents have to be but um this does concern me right I I understand and and I'm not sure um how the arrangement is I I I know in my area the parents bring Drive their kids to school for the especially the elementary the high school kids uh they'll let them walk to the bus stop but a lot of them drive but to that point you got such a long driveway either the parents going to get the if there's children in this development um they're going to get those children in their cars drive them down and they're going to be staged and stacked at the bottom this driveway or you're expecting them to walk down that entire driveway or is there a way of making an arrangement for the school bus to go up and make a turnaround and pick the children up can that be determined well based on what I in dealing with schools before they won't drive on private property so and I don't know we haven't asked but I just know they don't normally do that okay so so um um I would imagine the parents aren't going to let their elementary school kid or walk down you know this driveway although where I grew up it was a half a mile to the bus stop and we walked down a big hill lot bigger than this uh but then it was more rural area we have Bears up here so yeah um anyway um uh so I don't know how parents I mean I'm just guessing that if I were a parent and I were bringing the kids down especially like in this weather they'd probably Park in the in the Burger King parking lot wait for the bus to come and then bring the kids to the schools I'm I'm not sure I'm I'm I'm if if I could um many of us have been sitting in our seats here since 6:30 tonight I'm going to ask if we just do a quick five minute stretch break and we come back we could we could uh open up more questions thank you thank you okay um okay so we're back um I I think we like to any more testimony that you'd like to give uh finish up with that and then maybe um bring it to our professionals to go through their questions before we bring it back to the Das and kind of run through those and we'll see where we are TimeWise if that's okay with with youman I'm done with uh Mr Burton's direct test testimony okay uh I realize we won't get to the architect tonight let's see what we deal with the professionals we'll check the time as I said will unfortunately or fortunately we will be back okay okay I app I appreciate that um so if you're done I'm going to kick into our professionals or pass to our professionals uh Mr Simmons if we could start with you if that's okay sure Mr chairman uh just referring to my report dated December 18th 2023 uh I'll note first that the applicant did go through a lot of the information in my report as part of their direct testimony i' just like to highlight some items just so uh the board knows what some of the concerns were and also what additional information we'd like to get from the applicants Consultants before the next meeting if that's all right okay um on page three of the report the one the two items I just want to point out is item 4D is in Dave uh the grading plan calls for a substantial cut in the slope on adjacent lot two up to approximately 18 ft plus or minus is the applicant aware of any development proposed on adjacent tax Lot 2 that will affect the proposed grading and the reason I bring that up I know the applicant has an easement on adjacent lot two to do the grading that they're proposing uh the concern I have is that I remember there was an application years ago for a Wawa on adjacent lot two and as part of any future application on that lot what's an embankment right now that's helping to buffer this building may not necessarily be there depending on how they grade on the adjacent property I don't know if they're aware of anything or not uh but I think when they prepare their plans to show all four sides of the building they should look at it from the standpoint of the way they've got it graded now which I understand but also look at it what if that got graded off and that wasn't serving as a buffer just so everybody's on the same page as far as that goes the other point about the adjacent lot that I think they should investigate and come back to the board with is and i' stand corrected on this um when there was a development and I seem to recall it was the Wawa an adjacent tax lot to there may have been some driveway access interconnect between the two properties to facilitate a driveway out over under 517 on the bypass now the one thing just looking at this plan um I don't think the way the apartment building is positioned and the area on the left or the southwest side of the apartment building that's proposed to be preserved for the existing mature woods and what have you I don't think there's much room if any to provide any access if you do want any access through the other property to get to the 517 bypass so I think that next door property which I understand is not under the control of this applicant but I think they ought to think about it and just see how that's all going to work itself out not only for what the look is from the 517 bypass but what's going to happen and any kind of interc connectability because I thought there was someplace where there might have been some access curb cup that was proposed but again they can scope that out between now and the next meeting the other thing in 4E is an edword that I brought up as Mr Burton pointed out there's roughly about 9800 cubic yards of excess material that's got to come out that's about 655 tandem loads as I calculate it so I think they should determine if they're going to take that all down the access drive onto spart Avenue or are they going to work something out with the neighbor to the north and perhaps put some of that material on that property that's a lot of truck loads to take out and I think logistically uh they have to get back to the board how they're going to handle that and what question was that that was item uh 4E oh gotcha thank four e on page three then on the top of page four item four F is in Fred maintenance of the chain link fence along the adjacent Cemetery property to be confirmed by the applicant I remember when the former application was here for Captiva I believe there at that time there were some representatives from the cemeteries there asking who was going to take care of that fence I'm not sure if it's your property owner's fence or theirs but perhaps between now and the next meeting if you could investigate that just so that issue is put to bed as far as who has the responsibility for that then on page four just skipping down to item number six the Landscaping uh there was a lot of discussion about that tonight uh we had asked for example on item number 6B uh where there's a minimum of 30% of the impervious service surfaces shall be dedicated to plant Mass area and I know Mr Burton testified about all that and that they met that requirement between now and the next meeting if you could provide those calculations and just get us the additional information specifically the landscape plan that addresses the items and the comments that you had tonight uh we could look at that and get back back to the board between now and the next meeting that would be very helpful uh with regards to the utilities again they are as Mr Burton pointed out taking uh sanitary sewer and portable water use down through Mains all the way down to spart Avenue and tying in and that's where they're going to get their services the one thing that I just want to bring up is that based on the previous application the captiv application my recollection is from some of the preliminary work that they did they did not have sufficient pressure to provide fire protection and I would like it if Mr Burton between now again and the next meeting uh if he could provide some additional information on how that's going to be accomplished I realized there was an area outlined on the architectural floor plans for uh fire suppression room or whatever the particular title was corre but again just so we know what we're deing with um because you are going to be up there in the upper areas where there's going to be less pressure and just so we know that it's feasible to get it done up there then with regards to uh on page five storm drainage uh again what we found looking at the plans was that the applicant has in fact um met the requirements as far as D is concerned for the quantity reduction the water quality and the groundwater uh recharge based on their plans that they developed um they do have to get a uh it did submit a best management practices manual that ultimately just so the board knows has to be recorded in the county clerk's office so whether it's the the floss group or some other group in the future it's in the chain a title so they know what their responsibilities are because there's maintenance involved with uh equip equipment that they're talking about installing um and bottom line is they have to realize whoever owns the property that it's their responsibility to do it and as Mr Burton pointed out uh going down into spart Avenue it is as we said before a state highway so route 181 you're going to be in front of the dot in Trenton with Road opening permits and requests for occupancy permits to do all the work down in that area uh the architectural plan and um I would just submit at this point my understanding is the architect is working on um revisions to the plans to come up with a different building look that he's going to run by the board uh the signage my understanding is and again they just as they pointed out just have two relatively small signs there's not a lot of room for signs especially down by spart Avenue there's basically a wedge of area on their property between the curb line and the sidewalk walk in their property line where they can put something in so that's takes care of that fire protection again I think that's something we need a little more information on and if you could get back to us on that that would be great uh the environmental impact statement uh the one thing that I brought up was uh with the lighting um I think you were talking about an LED type fixture uh that had the the the illumination in the top so you weren't looking right at the bulb which is a good idea if you could compare I don't remember if it's on the plans or not but if you could compare unless it's the same the type of fixture you're using in the pole with what's used normally in Sparta streetcape program uh if we could see how close it is to that yes I I believe we we use the same fixture shape but I I'll double check yeah if you could do that and again the streetcape has been carried throughout the whole Township especially in this area spart Avenue Main Street and what have you and just for continuity purposes and the look of the town uh if we can consistently carry the same theme through and use the same type of fixture that would be great uh as far as the environmental impact statement um I believe the architect did talk about the generator uh but said any in order to meet any D and Sparta Township noise requirements um that they would take care of of it um I think we should be able to show if we're going to have an enclosure or how we're going to handle that so I think that would be good to know especially for everybody in the neighborhood I I don't think we put a note on there but we were going to a type two enclosure so we will have an enclosure okay so we can follow through on that bless you bless you uh on page on page uh seven we had a list of all the various approvals we recommend that the applicant has to get which if the board approves it would have to be subject to that and sound we talked about the setbacks and the parking spaces and those are the main issues Mr chairman just in a in a highlighted area all right thank you Mr I think it would be beneficial if the applicant could respond before the next meeting on that that would be good okay Mr yes I just have a few quick questions um have you uh if I could I was gonna I'd like to maybe let um I'm sorry yeah sorry sorry I I'll go just two very quick comments one was mentioned that you're going to submit a revised Landscaping plan showing additional plantings we have to come back so I'll put a few yes I'll add some more land um my last question I know it was previous testimony but I'd rather hear from the engineer the comment I had an original comment about the location of this amenity space being located where it is and honestly a bothers me but I might be the only one anyway knowing this site the way you do without disturbing any area I understand you're surrounded by steep steep slopes is it reasonable or to even consider almost taking that that long linear amenity space and putting it and incorporating it somehow into the front entrance or the front of the building um I was thinking along the front of the building actually when you go into like a upscale restaurant or so forth they have outdoor nice seating a lobby area a little bit of a I I don't know an overhang or something like that so may in order to increase the chances that become some type of social area where people could actually maybe meet or sit a little bit more com comfortable rather than being stuck where it is across a parking lot in between a parking lot and a driveway surrounded by cars so I I I guess what you're looking at is that we move some of those features and I get what you're saying to the front of the building we could still keep some away usually when they have the barbecues they are farther away because people could get noisy um but I I understand exactly what you're saying fine and I know this is more towards the architect but I didn't want to wait for him to bring it up again for uh but maybe the way it's set up it almost works like a hotel but this is an apartment building the two very different type of uses and the parking lot is set up exactly the way you would design it for a hotel for the most part right but for an apartment building you try and create a little bit more of a residential feel a little a little softer feel along the especially along the entryway MH so you're not walking in between the cars trying to get into the front door there's a couple of cars maybe that are removed and there's a little walkway maybe it goes into a little sitting area I don't know something like that I and I I respect that we don't want to start taking down large trees we don't want to expand to the areas where the steep slopes are I just thought maybe you would take a look at that reasonable we'll look we we'll try to do something one more com Mike yeah sure Mr Burton um the you mentioned there was a retention system underground retention system for runoff did that have a oil water separator in in that design well well it will it will do do some it's not an oil water separator but it will remove petroleum yeah and it's going to it will also tie the the runoff from the the building itself and the parking lot run off all that will go into that system well the building itself the roof water will bypass that'll go go right to the infiltration system but the parking lot will go through the water treatment unit and that system I'm just trying to understand I mean I'm thinking oil water Etc right and and you're saying this system will bate those media if there's oil or any residual runoff from the cars or whatever if there's a spill from a delivery that that will get contained into and captured in that system or is that a whole different no no um yeah if if this were a gas station we'd put a fossil filter Upstream but it's not a gas station no understood yeah but but so um no I what I'll do is we we provided the information but the the the system is not meant to be a oil water separator but it does remove because it's a recharge very sensitive to the aquifer we just and you're sitting on a lot of sand like you like you mentioned it's I think it's pretty important that we just get a little bit more information on that and to dovetail the um Mr Simmons comments uh the amount of uh fill you're going to be removing from the site is substantial I think if you calculate that out it maybe a 30 to 45 day if you're running 20 trucks a day if they can make the turn running 20 trucks a day you could be anywhere from a 30 to 45 day window um you know that's significant and that brings me into where I was leading this is if possible is there any thought of the construction time frame and you know how much how long will the construction time frame be from Z it's a 0 to 24 month project and um you know just maybe commenting on how long your anticipated construction time frame is and then identify the staging areas for construction equipment materials Etc I don't know if your plans are to keep everything on the bottom part of Burger King and run it up the hill or as you're going through construction where you're staging the equipment the materials and all that and the like well just quickly all all the staging we got plenty of room on top so that'll it be up it'll all be on top there's no need yeah you could see the big parking lot we have and you know this area is somewhat flat already okay and the concrete pads that are currently there are going to be removed and disposed of not reused on a subbase for any of that yeah all thatone yeah it it should be a note on the demolition plan but all every everything on top everything from the bend in the in the driveway here uh and that whole parking lot everything up there is being removed all the ass footing as well correct excuse me and the footings as well asso the footings oh they have to move yeah okay and lastly as you mentioned I was shifting over to I guess a traffic question as the cars come down and you're you're saying during peak hours you're thinking maybe I thought I heard 10 to 13 cars leaving in the morning between 7:30 and 8:30 mhm um do you how much stacking or staging do you have in that front part of the driveway like pulling out if one goes left one goes right how how many cars are going to be stacked up will it be all 13 all at the same time or no no no it's it's one every couple minutes um we have a long driveway but Burger King and the shopping center share it otherwise you know we we we could stack you know 100 cars I know you have the stacking capability it's just the question of you know when that's going to when those cars are coming out making there there's no left or right hand terms right some are going to go left some are going to go right you know um I think if you could comment or or get some more clarification on that that would be helpful maybe I get it I that'll be further discussed with other board members that's all I have okay thanks let let me suggest so we're coming up on the 10 o'clock hour um what I'd like to suggest is that maybe we just uh we continue with the question we won't we won't uh bring up any new Witnesses uh continue with the dasis on on the questions that everybody has um and then open it to the public and then in terms of the uh the instructor Le uh recreational use maybe we can push that to the next meeting I'd like to have it pushed up front because it seems to always be the last thing so I want to make sure we get through that next time so so if is anyone an agreement with that okay so why don't we do this why don't we go from uh why don't we go from left to right on the dasis people with questions that you have Celeste if you're okay I'll start with you oh yeah okay not a problem um you're left I have you know had a few questions regarding uh regarding walkability um I know that that members of the public had had raised questions about children so on and so forth but I also um late last year had met with the senior advisory committee and they were very interested in in how this um how this came together and one of their top concerns was walkability and being cap able of moving from the building down to to the surrounding areas um so I know that there's there's a sidewalk in intended there um but now once you get down to to the Bottom by right by Sparta Avenue when we're talking about in terms of being able to you know walk across spart Avenue I know you said that there was crosswalk but again if we're talking about cues of cars and you know potential increased pedestrian traffic um what what's the ention of handling that well the the the again we only have 33 ft of Frontage along there so but yeah the sidewalk situation when you get down to the end is not great um um I don't even think heading heading uh North I I I don't even recall if there was a sidewalk because there's a driveway immediately on the other side of the of the property for for the shopping center um uh so I I just when you get to the end it's not it's not the greatest uh right well that that also brings up the you know the concern that was already already mentioned regarding school buses so if there's no if there's no real sidewalk there and there's no real any place for for somebody to stand or um or wait for school buses when you have several buses that potentially may need to queue um that that creates more of a traffic concern because now you've got you know potential parents sitting in cars potential buses you know multiple buses sitting there in that one spot that's already a high traffic area when you do I mean yes there there is going to be a breakfast drive-thru traffic on top of you know and that is within that hour of commute right so that's you know that's another big um Big Ticket item so if if you guys can think about a a better way to potentially address um how that that could be handled um also one of the the questions regarding um potentially Crossing Sparta Avenue at that spot to get across to Ocean State Job Lot I know that there was there was some concern surrounding that um as well so any anything any thoughts that you might have regarding you know walkability in that area whether it's to put in a a light where somebody can you know just hit a button and potentially cross the road or you know to allow um that that foot traffic that that might be something to consider um but unless you have any initial thoughts on on how that could be handled I think I better look at it okay no thank you Mike uh I think Mike ran through his thank you yes questions he did it first the grade change can you help me out from Sparta AB to where the building is going to be it's higher correct or is it lower I'm having trouble the building is much higher much higher correct where the building is being correct yeah the grade the grade at the street is elevation 738 the grade at the parking lot is 774 so that's about 40t 38 ft okay from from the point of SP AB to where a great change of 38 ft when you get to the front door higher correct higher it's higher okay and the building is getting built up there correct yes okay I'm having TR trouble understanding how I'm not going to see it from spart avue oh no no well I heard testimony tonight that we're not going to see it no no you you you can see it in certain areas but there's a lot of woods between the building and Sparta Avenue I don't even know well I know there's Woods there but the building's going above that correct no no no the woods are a lot higher I mean those trees are 70 80 feet tall there are mature trees up there even the evergreen trees are probably at their tallest um so that's what helps screen it but also when you're driving maybe if you're walking you could look up but when you're driving you're not looking to your right or left because you're watching traffic where you might see it or you would have a better seeing it is is South Main Street across yeah down Main Street across the valley and then on the other side of the valley up there you could see it from there again in the win time me from the stoping shop or the other Valley what no no no I'm across when I say the valley across the the sparta where where Sparta Avenue is this Valley to the other because it it rises up again so from across there you'll see it but then again it depends I think in the summertime be less visible but the the upper floors are higher yeah so but anyway so you you'll see it but it'll it's not going to be a direct view from most places okay you can I just had I couldn't tell if it was north or south or up go up there you can walk up there we can yeah all right I mean you can't drive because it's a chain but you can walk up there go go to the Burger King and hike up there the height a great View and the height of the building is going to be 40 a little I think 46 feet that's to the to the roof through to the to the top the top of the building correct yeah yeah um with the the architectural changes there may be some Peaks but to the parit it is 44 feet okay I don't know what a parit is that just the top of the building it's a little bit above the roof so the wall extends above the roof line that is called a parit so the top of that parit the top of the parit is yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's the top of the wall around the building and that's 47 feet um I believe it's it's 44 ft 44t 44 when the architect comes back he'll go through all that okay and the impervious coverage for the whole lot am I correct it's 60% correct and it's going to the sewers so the sep there's not going to be a septic here correct correct okay thank you I'll pass uh Mr buron thank you for a very detailed um testimony so far just a couple of questions uh floor layout and and the apartment actual layout is that best for reserve for the oh yes the architect yes sure uh can you just review the lighting system through the driveway is that where you said you're going to have those lamp post or is that in the parking lot only well the the whole site will be the Lantern and and I believe we got it from the streetscape so but I'll just confirm it because one of my other Engineers did it so it's uh it's the it's it's the typical Lantern where the sides are sloped and then you've got a cone shaped top um so again instead of the bulb being in the middle like it used to be it's an LED lamp on the top so it's really shining down more than out and that will be from like what's Point entry point of the driveway um let me see how close we get it maybe identify the lighting plan yeah um if you go to drawing 2.5 um our first lamp is is is along side of the parking lot to the strip center and then how many feet after and then how many feet will they be reoccurring maybe the are the the lamps are um uh 50 55 ft on Center and the first one is from the curve line on Sparta Avenue the first one is 35 ft and the hours of operation will be continuous well it's dawn to dusk and on the plan we have a note that after midnight if we could change that it'll drop 50% that's another thing about LED lights you can dim them um so the the lighting will be much less we'll probably have to keep a couple on up top as night lights because you got liability but um they have to be on dawn to dusk we have no choice you mentioned the generator is that you said it was for emergency use only emergency lighting only within the apartment well life safety yeah CU otherwise it'd be a big generator if we're going to power the whole building like and that life saf Life Safety so um we have an elevator whatever you know maybe maybe we have put the HVAC system for the hallways on or something like that the fire pit and the and the barbecue area is that going to be natural gas wood yeah yeah and that's that's typical all the better apartment complexes do that it's the same stuff you get from your home it's you know it's a fire pit and uh and and and the the barbecue is a barbecue natural gas though natural gas direct line excuse me a direct line not a propane or no no no I I think that that's the best um it it because coal you got coals you got waste it just uh did we go over where the HVAC system we going to be is that best for the AR um well no the architect will tell you about that okay um I think Mike asked earlier but I don't know if you gave an answer about the expected time of construction uh I want to consult or and we probably have a note on our erosion control plan on how long we expect it but I'm I don't want to throw out a number thank you um Mr Mada gave it a suggestion of moving the rec ational amend of the area to the front of the building I think he said move some of it to the to the front at least make the front a little bit more uh um uh resident friendly maybe some sitting areas right at the front of the building rather than having to walk across the parking lot and that makes sense understand um is there like a patio or balcony for the residents are there first floor yes so so the plans will show it there's a patio for each unit and then the upper floors is a balcony above the patio so I guess my question would be if you move that some of the amenities to the front with that inner buffer too close to the first floor Apartments well you know well we'll have to look at that we we will look at that when we make this um move and then one thing about traffic and Ernie maybe you're the best person to answer is that a legal left turn entering this property off of off of 181 it is it's on a double yellow bur King you you can make you can make a left turn over a double yellow it just it doesn't have a turn lane but I mean it's you have to use caution when you make the make the turn it's not the best thing but a dou New Jersey to change it yeah a double yellow doesn't restrict left turns it just it talks about passing a car in front of you for 20 years maybe I should know that I'm think the same thing all those left could I could have made them all no no actually there's a court case because Bridgefield uh used to not allow left turns across a double yellow line and then it wound up in court so but that was like 20 years ago anyway so there's a whole case about that thank you very much Mr B thank you you all done yeah good thank you Mr Burton I appreciate it all the details are great um I I've have several groups of questions um the first is around the environmental impact statement like to start with that um who specifically performed the e um it was I well I worked on it a year ago and then other people in my office and if there's any um um well traffic part would have come from my office but anything like if there's stuff on student population we would have um talked to a planner and I'm not sure who we talk to but I can if you have specific questions I'll find out but it was a group of people in the office put it together okay what what are your or their credentials in terms of environmental knowledge well it depends what it is if we're talking about drainage and uh uh wetlands and stuff we we we we have that inhouse those credentials we have Wetlands experts uh that we would have looked on the Geo website for that kind of information uh when it comes to population uh we don't have those credentials we have to turn to a planner I'm not sure uh if you have something specific there I'm talking more yeah not not so much strong word to management more Wetlands uh rare endangered species um that aspect of the envir that we look on the Geo website and that's where we got would get that information so the Department of Environmental Protection has a website where they maintain all this information so that's where we go first and and and and I think we would have referenced it we should have referenced it if we didn't okay did did you or any anyone in your office visit the site specifically to perform the Eis in terms of looking for rare and endangered species in terms of wetlands terms of all that no we didn't we went to the book first and given the fact that we're on top of a hill and it's sandy soil we wouldn't expect to see Wetlands um we we we have on occasion yes we we we can send someone to a site to do and then get an absence or presence interpretation but the D would look at the uh Geo website uh um as as far as threatening dangered species okay that that's what I wanted to focus in on next the report says that no Wildlife study was performed and explains that no rare species are expected uh it's you know adjacent to commercial properties I would also point out though that it I've heard you know a dozen 20 times tonight about the mature woods and U which is wonderful and the conservation area of 17 acres to the North and the cemetery um the property has been vacant for 20 or so years so um it is reasonable to think that there might be commercial properties on one side of it but it's surrounded by lots of natural habitat um so I just want to drill into that a little bit more so no study was conducted um the conclusion was that you know it can be gathered that because of the zone and the adjacent properties and because it was previously developed again 20 years ago a long time ago that no rare species are expected um you know given the surrounding area given this is Sparta in Sussex County and we have endanger species it's not uncommon the wood Turtles lots of areas around here um I'm just wondering it was gathered by based on what facts or studies would well typically you start with the findings that are gathered by the state that's where you start and if there's an indication that there might be um um Habitat to look at then you would look at it and so that's what that's based on there was no indication by the records that there's uh threatened or endangered species so that was done are there species living there are there squirrels and other kinds of things absolutely I mean there's tracks go up there when you go up there you can see in the snow you'll see the the rabbits and the squirrel tracks okay the U at the end of it they conclusion of the report it mentions it can be concluded that a few common species are likely there um absolutely again it's there's so an assumption that these species are common right that there's not anything else there that would be deserving of more analysis yeah and and and to do a study I mean it's it's it's it's an extended operation to sit there and do do a do a study um and I don't know if this is the time of year to do that kind of study there's certain times of year you look for Turtles I think it's in the spring or in you know you would okay I I don't think this is an area for Turtles you got to be usually near bers of bodies of water there are a lot of wood Turtles you know documented in Sparta um maybe not right there okay um shifting gear a little bit the the site plan showed uh five test pits that were used as part of the analysis and I'm sure fed into some of the analytics um the those test bits were done in 2005 and 2008 uh I don't know the answer to this and maybe our professionals can help too because they were the test pits were looked at in that many years ago are they still valid are they still accurate and when you were feeding them into your models is there a reason to need to redo them well first of all we have to do test pits in the area of the Basin that's going to be required so we have to do two test two more test pits but um given this situation I mean if we were in low lands and you know groundwater may be higher and we could see modeling or signs of groundwater that could change but in this area you know what's below the ground doesn't change so I I I think you could take these test pits uh that they're valid but we have to do two more I'm just telling you we got to do two at this Basin um so that will be done regardless okay and and I would just and I would just add to that if I may under the best management practices in the D storm water regulations especially what came out recently uh there's requirements for depending on what component of the storm water system you're doing they do have a minimum number of test bits or borings and they have to meet certain criteria certain depths they might have to do some groundwater mounding modeling that type of thing just to make sure that you're meeting all their criteria and again as I mentioned on other applications in the past uh periodically Sparta was monit or audited by DP so that's the type of thing where we have to have that documentation in the file to make sure we're ready if they ever come up and check out something okay and this is going to the do and even though the dot shouldn't really be looking at it I I've got projects where no water is going to the highway and they review the whole drainage system never mind but they get a second look and they're never mind they they they go overboard okay uh next question is related to something a little bit more minor but there was convers there's documentation here around snow and snow stockpile are and snow removal and um there's an assumption that the snow will be stockpiled up to three or 4 feet high and that should be sufficient um I have a few questions one is if we get 12 or 18 inches of snow in one storm you're going to clear all the driveway all the parking lot and is it going to fit in that area 3 to four feet high second part of the question is where do all that drain is that get captured in the stormw management system does it go down the hill to the cemetery where does all the snow okay well the snow stock pile area is is is really along the southwesterly side of the property that's where we left it so we you know we one reason why we don't put more Landscaping so um it would be stockpiled there U when it melts it's going to go down the hill so uh it does won't go into the storm water system but it's not going to the cemetery because there's no really place to store it over there and if it we get too much snow and they really have to get rid of it then they'll get rid of it they'll truck it out usually know it had to be a really bad storm to make a problem but anyway if if it gets iive than as other people do they they they'll haul it away it away one clarification you said it goes down the hill obviously it's not going to go down the driveway necessar it's going to just flow downwards to Burger King or no no it it'll where it's stockpiled eventually it'll melt and it'll um flow downhill yeah and then it'll get into our driveway and into that drainage system and then go down to the DT but it will be collected into drainage system it will not go to the Burger King property at least not the snow stockpile area okay you know other areas uh landscaped areas along no nothing from our site can go to the Burger King because we have a driveway along Burger King and there's a curb there so that answers that question okay okay next U we've heard mention of the stormw management system the ctech system um it's very interesting system the way where it's where it sits and can you just talk about that a little bit do you have experienced with it in the past where for how long what are some of the pros and cons personally with that system well it's it's it's an arch or a galley that's what it is and these things came out I don't know 20 years ago and yes there were some failures but there's several systems they're reinforced they can take the loads they've been tested and and basically it's it's it's a it's a cost-effective way to store a lot of water underground so it's it's great from that standpoint and although they do have ways to clean it we have to have ports to clean it I'm not really that familiar but with after all these years that type of work has been done and uh actually there's companies that specialize in that and that's part of our storm water manual on how to maintain it I don't know how to do it but you know the companies that do it you know if you had to get in I guess overtime like a dryw you know stuff can collect and and clog up the pores and the soil but it takes a lot to do that you know and entirely sits under the parking lot yeah okay yeah it's it's it's underground system instead of using dry Wells which we would have used long time ago which were big big concrete cylinders with holes on the side and the bottom um this ctech or there's storm Tech there's a several different models uh or companies manufacturers it's just a a a seems like a better way and one nice thing about it is it covers a bigger area so you have more I'm going to say surface area to discharge the water as opposed to a dry well which is more concentrated okay one question around circulation um I saw the fire department's report ready I'm just from my own curiosity the question I asked earlier so unfortunately there's a fire in the building it's in the back side of the building it high high the high part of the back fourth floor in the back the fire truck circulation I've seen it it would only reaches the front of the building how does that work just to help us feel more comfortable the architect is better at this he'll get to but the the building is sprinklered um we don't need it's not required to have access all around the building that's not needed uh the point of the sprinkler system is to get people out of the building and it's been proven time and time again that that's what it does you know you you you want to have time to evacuate people from the building but you do not need it's not required to have access around the building okay okay uh that's all I have for now thank you thank you um just to clarify you are using New Jersey geoweb to um to find uh out if there are suspected or there have been viewed any endangered or threatened species is that the one resource U mapping resource that you're using you referred to geoweb or something like it's the the the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection they have a website so you go there and you can look up a lot of factors on property um aquifers uh all sorts of things that is it in the highlands is it in the sewer service area all that information is collected and you can drill down if there's a spill on the site you can find out more about that yeah no I'm I'm very familiar with it okay are you aware that the um there's also another website that you might find useful that is focused on um ecological um concerns uh and that is the uh conservation blueprint New Jersey map 2 and they mention things and have mapped out things like Wildlife corridors and ecological areas of priority um so that um kind of complements I think what New Jersey Geo web does and then of course there's the highlands Council uh you know map system that talks a lot about hydrology and also Wildlife so on the environmental commission we try to consult all three of those and see what the matching factors are in the areas of most concern for applicants okay yeah we'll do that thank you thank you very much for your excellent presentation oh well thank you the advantage of being one of the last people to go as I most questions have been asked and answered um the the only one I have actually it's more of a a request um and it's probably for the architect you know just I know he's going to give us some updated drawings um my question is you know I look at the Pres the one we were given you know that's gray you know are they married to gray or could can or maybe Earth Tones be something that could be considered they will they will do they will he heard you my the client heard you right they will spiff it up I think that FS more into the environment here right so thank you uh yeah I'm in the same long uh the lines of Ernie I think all the environmental stuff next time we'll start on the right side well represented tonight um but yeah I'm interested to see kind of what updates you do make architecturally with the design you know as as a be very beautiful place as you guys mentioned and we want to make sure that the buildings and stuff match that um and fit in so I'll I'll be interested to see some of that stuff in the next meeting okay but thanks for everything else tonight thank you thank you okay so uh it's 10:30 um we still have uh questions open to the public as well as uh um for uh op the public for comments not on the agenda so um I'm not sure how much that that we could push let's give it a few more minutes let's just see how we do if we get the at least the public questions on this for people that are here and I'm going to ask the people you know try try to keep it brief given the time concering and uh you know if we can't get through it we won't get through it but let's uh let's give it a try okay thank you Mr day Jennifer Derek I'm still sworn in um couple of questions the first one is the prior application for this property still in play it was on the agenda before the turn of the year for um an extension but there was not a vote taken my understanding was it died with the year is that correct Mr Collins do you want to answer that one please um the request for extension is still on the table but what we said was it will not be considered until after this case is over okay and it doesn't an application doesn't die well you had given it a one-year extension uh I I think I think we went over this but I maybe it would help uh to go over it again an extension request approvals don't die okay they don't expire what happens is they have the benefit of protection against changes in ordinances and the application was the time period for the extent for the protection against changes in the ordinance was extended until December of last year a request was made for another one-year extension that is pending and will be considered perhaps after this case it may not be necessary if this case is approved and so hearing this information is helpful to know whether an extension is even needed thank you for that being said though that means that but when someone requests an extension it what happens is it the if it's granted it goes back to the time when the time period would for protection against changes in the ordinance would expire so it doesn't it it can be granted later and still be effective okay thank you for that clarification I appreciate that um are there any underground storage tanks on this property I know you mentioned a septic system but are there any usds I was told the phase one was done and it didn't come across so is an Loi required on this property do we have an Loi uh no um a little bit of history that was left out of the uh summary given about this property was in 2018 the developer bought the property to project to the zoning board requesting a c variance and two D variances to allow for apartments on the first floor and for height and for impervious coverage and setbacks that was denied it then the developer uh went to Bill close and I know this for a fact because I asked him directly and he responded Yes M Mr chairman if I may I I usually do allow wide latitude but do we have a question for the engineer the question you had brought it up when you were given the history of the project that's why I'm giving a little bit more history 20 20-4 was the ordinance change that was approved at the request of the developer to allow for this project to happen I just wanted everybody to know that that's how this happened thank you Jen hello again Kathy Evan Cowen previously sworn in I just have a couple of follow-ups based on the testimony given um I believe it was stated that parking is allowed of non EV in EV spaces is that correct uh yes because if you just restrict it to EV parking um that that's the way it's been interpreted now that you can park in an EV space okay but if there's only two of them obviously we try not to but that'll be a management issue got it um is it only gas for heat and not oil there's no oil on the property whatsoever um they do not propos oil it'll be electric or gas okay um have any treatments to the windows have been conceived for preventing bird strikes since the building is so high I'll let the architect figure that one out okay for a consideration to the board please [Music] um um previously it was testified as someone had uh re also mentioned that uh there are about 13 extra cars storing peak hours um assumed do we know the rating or grade of the state road for Sparta Avenue today excuse me the rating of the the tra service yes um level of service thank at this driveway the the level of service would really be impacting the driveways not Sparta Avenue because that has the right away and so we'd have to do a traffic count and a and a study to figure out what the level of service would be based on for the driveway what what it would be so no we don't know what the level of services you could figure it out at the intersection but I don't know about the the the Run of spart of Avenue I would say unless traffic is backed up Sparta Avenue is at a probably a level of service B but the traffic light it's a different story is that a statement of fact no that's an opinion because we don't have the counts to do a study okay I will uh mention that I believe that space in front of the Burger King is two lanes into one so it wouldn't surprise me if there was a backup in that space and that's for the board's consideration as well um up till now most of the discussion has been about um cars for traffic I believe it was raised also what about pedestrians we're not really talking about the pedestrians as much um as we know our town we want our town to be walkable and um when you're including this many new residents that that should be considered in terms of traffic not just cars but also pedestrians I think I spent a lot of time on pedestrian um of note this year well last year now um as as if my memory recalls that we had a town council member already bring up concerns about children Crossing Sparta Avenue at this location generally speaking for ice cream and sports uh games so um you know that's already a concern in our town whether you are here and understand that or not I'd like to bring that up um do you with that in mind uh you know can you talk about any impacts that you might have with this development on that pedestrian issue or concern um I'm going to use a term that's an off-site issue um I think it's important that we get our people to the sidewalk um and that's what I said I would look into as far as Crossing um Sparta Avenue I I don't know that this is in the middle of in this area is a great place to cross uh but I that that's a broader subject than this application sure that's true and whether or not it's of concern of the developer the reality is we're bringing additional pedestrians and those pedestrians will want to go across the street to probably get some ice cream or down the road to get some terms of this application if I could Kathy we've got to keep it to questions about this application and this this particular site I think you have have to keep it to questions I'm a member of the public right so there's a big difference in the rules I can can I not speak my opinions on what I think is here feel free go ahead thank you um regarding the bus stop um even this week there have been a lot of cold days where we have parents idling in their cars with their children I would think it would be the same with hot days as well um with um Celeste and where are the children going to stand um Can a shelter be built a bus stop have we accounted for the idling traffic on you know leaving the property all of those things I mean you're saying that we're not expecting children but there reality is there are buses that are coming through there they're very likely to stop there are children who will be standing in the middle of Sparta Sparta Avenue on a busy street and I think it behooves this board and this developer to make sure that those children are protected both for the children's safety and the traffic concerns for backup for idling cars my opinion for your consideration um during the testimony tonight I heard a potential uh egress to Route 517 but then I heard it not so I'm very confused can we clarify this point because it's not there's no no no access to 517 from the site okay I'm not sure why it was raised on but thank you for clarifying um previously we talked about pets and um individuals walking their pets how they would go into the woods to have their pets relieve themselves it sounds like um the property dies off or has a a very large slope so is that a a really good idea for people to be kind of falling off and allowing their pets to use the restroom no the the the testimony from Mr McNerney was that there'll be stations where we'll have the bags um and um you know as people walk the property I don't think people will be walking in the woods they could if they want but the idea is when the when the animal when the dog uh does its thing you pick it up and that's become common practice so it wouldn't be I mean we do it on on my yard we we have dogs so okay I'm just clarifying I heard I thought I heard someone say they would walk in the woods we we haven't put a dog walk here we we're not accommodating that but people walking their dogs on a leash unless the dog's trained they will pick up after their dog okay and that's part of the rules of the uh apartment okay is the retention water retention accessible by humans like by anyone no it's all underground all under ground and the system that I heard discussed earlier is that prone to sink holes sink holes have become a very um interesting topic in the last few years and that just a thought that came to mind when you talked about something underground that we maybe should consider uh there are certain soil types that are are prone to sink holes uh I don't know that that's the case here uh this is sandy soil but when you have certain types of soil um um the the the water will dissolve it that's not not what we have here okay so that's no no um are the air conditioners intended to be on the roof know architect will discuss that is the building intended to be uplet meaning lights would be at the base of the building in order to shine light to so the building could be seen at night uplit no no I I don't we aren't opposing any uplights on the building correct okay um I'm almost done snow pile um discussion about the snow pile it sounded like it was melting out um down the hill and is that going to melt over the sidewalk causing an ice situation when it refreezes um yeah it it could it could and then that's something that the Mr McNerney lives 15 minutes from here he's going to come and check it but no that that's that's a maintenance thing whether whether the water's coming down the driveway or not it's it's a maintenance thing that has to be taken care of but as an engineer you have an opportunity to design excuse me to design a situation that wouldn't that wouldn't cause wouldn't be caused right so the question is to you you're knowingly designing something that could be a hazard is that right that's that's something we we designed for the park Mr chairman if we could not be argumentative I mean snow does melt and when it gets cold it it freezes and so like in my office building I have I I that's something we do hire out and they come there before the building opens and if there's ice if there if there's ice they salt it so that that is a maintenance issue but we're not designing for slipping Hazard it's just a active nature and you're not designing for not a slipping Hazard just to be clear well that's fine all right so the final question I have is um we talked about building traffic in the morning and night during the days the weekday uh we also talked about Burger King being midday traffic what about weekends we haven't spoken about weekends and any sort of impact we would expect to pedestrian traffic or uh vehicular traffic on the weekends so that's for the consideration of the board as well and if there's expected to be foot traffic bicycle traffic would they would be guided along the driveway uh or along dedicated Park uh walkways there's a sidewalk along the driveway and is that on the street side or on the building side of that driveway there well it's it's on this driveway it's on the building side of the driveway all the way down the hill it is this a car de dependent development uh well we're in this part of the state so yes you do have cars but no the idea is that we have sidewalk connection we are downtown so that would promote people from here to walk to the stores in the area you're so it's not we live in this part of the country we are car dependent it's not like if we were in if we were in Hudson County in Jersey City you're not as as car dependent but um we have made this pedestrian friendly so it is connected to nearby shops so you can walk your development is pedestrian friendly but when we talk about outside the development and the dangers that exists on sarta Avenue it's no longer pedestrians are no longer your concern well it's our concern but it's a bigger concern and it's beyond the scope of this project and for this applicant all right thank you so so Mark is is any any other people need to ask questions after Mark otherwise I'm going um i' like to end it here with Mark and and then uh hi Mark Scott I'm P Parkway Mark were you previously sworn on this case I'm not sure uh was last month so I don't remember I don't think you were so please raise your right hand do you swear firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God I do thank you um the retention Basin that you spoke spoke about that retention Basin is underground yes the last retention Basin that was approved by this planning board is now the S the site of our newest pond in town and it's right up here at the asken hooker building it's it's never the water never seems to leave and one day little kids's going to roll down in there and drown but I was wondering will this retention Basin it's going to be underground correct and so there will be no standing water on top of the surface like there is up there correct okay thank you um the ordin isn't isn't there something in this ordinance that says that this this has to look like spart Town Center is that when when when it says spart Town Center is that does that include Lake Mohawk Mark questions are for the applicant you okay want to go to the ordin they know that there is an ordinance on the Town Center they know the architect was was informed of it and is going to supposedly read its very elaborate conditions about the architecture the design compatibility with the Town Center compatibility with the roof appearance requirements of residential appearance uh Ernie brought up color so if you want to ask this witness questions you can but it sounds like it's more appropriate for the architect there's an ordinance and we should comply with the ordinance and it's not what's in the town it's what's in the ordinance that the effort will be made to uh work with that ordinance that the architect will do that okay we did that we spoke about the trees the trees the buffer of the trees between the subject property and Sparta Avenue will those trees be cut down or will they be maintained and what Assurance does this planting board have or what Assurance do I as as a citizen have that those PL that those trees won't be disturbed well I testified that the purpose of this design was to maintain the trees the drawing shows that there'll be no disturbance and where the wood line will remain um I did say that some of the smaller scrub trees could be cut out and we could you know clean up the woods but my testimony and the drawing show that no trees in that area will be removed thanks for the clarification are the co units going to be spread out throughout the building or are they going to be all together Mr mcnarney said that they would be spread out and they're going on one side of the building is that correct he said spread out I you the architect can tell you exactly they're on the drawing was a GPR done at the site uh no a phase one was done and the phase one would have uh would have triggered if there was an underground storage tank I think that's what you're getting at correct and multiple times tonight we spoke about traffic study the lack of a traffic study is is is it the planning board's ability to require a traffic study or ask for a traffic study yes they can ask for it the the idea was that we um we gave traffic information at the time we made the application it was covid and it didn't make sense to do any counts but um so we gave in our Eis the generation for the site thank you last thing is now this is an offsite Improvement in Sparta we generally don't ask developers to make any type of off-site improvement but why couldn't we put I mean we have Burger King we have kids coming down off the off the hill from the apartment building and they want to go over to the sparta ice cream or to the field and play why can't we put a request that a crosswalk we put in with a light and a button if the kid wants to cross he gets to press the button and the traffic stops and you walk across and know now I I think it's part of the planning board's responsibility question is it is is it possible that something like that could be done right so if I may anything is possible but under the municipal land use law off-site improvements are restricted to certain items crosswalk is not one of them and I think what is missing from what has been stated so far regarding Sparta Avenue this is under New Jersey Department of Transportation Control you can say you want a s you a crosswalk it is up to the state to approve it and they are not very friendly about no allowing crosswalks so I mean that that's really what it is so I guess that's a no okay thank you okay with that it's uh I can't even see anymore 10 10 to 11 I guess 10:48 thank you so I think at this point we should probably adjourn uh Tom do we have to have the the session make a date certain that we're going to carry to um what do you you want to go it's up to the chair what what do you what would you like of them to aim for I think for do how we look in schedule wise story I we have the sth or the 21st okay seventh how does that work for since it's the 17th already we better have Mr Burton have some more time to prepare the revision and revisions and the architect as well okay so maybe uh Kalisto and Brian what do you prefer what do you think we meet first first Wednesdays and third Wednesdays right third you want you want February 21st yes now yes we we're good February 21st so so if the so the this application of plus Holdings will be carried without additional notices to February 21st at 7 p.m. all right so so the last item on the agenda and Tom can we pass on this is is uh questions to the public about things that weren't covered tonight can we pass that you shouldn't pass on it uh but you could ask to keep it you can't really you shouldn't pass on it you should always let's do that then okay okay so uh gentlemen thank you very much I appreciate it um a lot of good good questions and answers so uh with that let's just move to open to the public for comments on matters not on the agenda not related to the hearing or the application of development does anybody have any any questions I'm sorry hear you yeah okay all right so seeing none uh could I have a motion to adjourn take home I don't second okay all in favor I okay adjourned all in favor question