J World if you could please call the rooll John viy pres Richard larua here Michael Lei here Richard robacker here Mark Scott here lenon teneri here chairman Kenneth Larry here Glenn ke here we have one resolution to be memorialized it's the Glenn Mercy orski application that was decided on June 12 2024 for appeal of zoning permit decision chair will entertain a motion so moved second please second any discussion Marissa please call the rooll wait this is what was this was to resol that was with the the door application Mark if you recall is the the thing about the door okay got it thank you Marissa you could call the role Richard larua yes Richard robacker yes and chairman Kenneth Larry yes tonight's agenda is the mark do you think you're supposed to be voting on this are you okay okay okay I wasn't sure you're kind of looking at a little quiz okay good sorry Ken that's because he's he's he's a Purdue graduate they they tend to look that way and uh for the public tonight's agenda is the following we have the Nancy noes Cara Johnson continuing application pered from June 12th 2024 meeting then we'll have the Main Street Creations LLC application after those applications we'll open to the public for comments and issues that are not on the agenda tonight and also no new testimony or business conducted with any of these applications after 9:30 p.m. and we also adjourn at 10 pm sharp so the first application of continuous uh Nancy Novus and car Johnson Mr Lynch if you want to come forward please and and also as usually let make sure the microphones pick up all the conversation is a state requirement that we have recordings for each application Mr Lynch too before you begin hopefully you can continue from where we left off at the last meeting in regards to responding to the objectors comments and issues you don't have to rehash the whole application we realize you're here for C variant relief for your applicants and then if it's okay Glenn can we have the objectors once Mr Lynch makes his open opening statement to come up and they can what I would suggest is I the answer is yes but I think there might be an easier way to proceed Mr chairman I suspect the council has a little bit of testimony he may not to put in the record we don't have to redo anything as you said and certainly the adjoining property owners don't have to redo anything so my suspicion and my hope is that this is a very expeditious hearing because it's only a c variance for fences you're either going to allow the fence for what they're applying for or you're not that's that's the application before you so you all have to figure it out but we don't need to rehash anything you all read the record uh now who's eligible to vote on this tonight I John you missed it right yep everybody else was here though I think correct right uh yes okay great yeah but John can certainly participate all your little heart desires you just don't get a chance to vote okay and Mr Lynch for the record again as we noted the last time it's a Lake Mohawk application and I think you had mentioned that you and your clients would not object from any member sitting on this board hearing the application correct correct let the record note that then okay go ahead Mr Lynch um yeah in the as uh we all heard last month this is an application um my clients applicants have received a fence permit um for a fence extending to the front yard and the application just seeks to have defense panels extend to six feet uh with 100% coverage uh interest of increased privacy um and that's all I have it for instructions but since he didn't get to testify last week I was just like to have Mr Johnson on behalf of the applicant just briefly testify what else is he going to add to what Mrs Johnson since they're both your clients he can he would just like to further brief testimony as to the reasons for privacy okay want to swear him in sure raise your right hand sir you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and the proceedings before the board tonight's help you got what is your name sir name is lar Johnson lar just you got to talk a little bit louder to make sure that Marissa can pick you y okay I'll bring out the colonel voice okay mic I think the mic is right there the mic is on the table all right Council what else does he have to tell the board U Mr Johnson um can you briefly explain uh the the reasons why additional privacy panel is necessary for this for your property okay first of all let me build my credibility sir I'm a retired full C sir that doesn't have anything to do with it this is a zoning board just give the testimony and answer the questions okay I just have one question for you while I was not allowed to testify last time but that's okay privacy all right how would you feel if every time you walked out your front door you were filmed with audio how would you feel at every time you walked out your porch to even have a cup of coffee in the morning you were filmed with audio how would you feel do you like to grill I love to grill okay how would you feel if every time you had your grill you had flashing lights on if it was nighttime they can even tell what sort of food you were cooking that's what we're looking at right now right that is my testimony all right you uh thank you Mr Johnson all right thank you thank you and let that sit there again good job and then anything else Mr Lynch before we get to the uh final just in uh as a briefer bottle testimony as to some of the uh testimony my Miss nav her last week she would just like to uh provide just a little additional testimony um should I talk about the fence or last the reasons for the offence the reasons for the fence our original ma'am I'm going to remind you you're still under oath okay and just identify yourself for the record Nancy novas okay thank you Nancy um I'm married to him I just fig same last name I had a career on we figured that out okay our original request is for a privacy fence to 12 feet beyond the house foundation um now I am requesting an additional 8T beyond that to go from 12 feet beyond the foundation if possible to 20 feet beyond the foundation that's still plenty of room left for a Picket Fence Lake Mohawk is a very unique Community very special to those of us who live here we want to preserve the nature and the architecture that creates its character Springbrook Trail is one of the oldest streets some of the houses all the houses are quite a mix of styles but some of the houses are one on top of another that is our situation between 54 and 56 the purpose of this hearing is to determine not whether we have a fence but what kind presumably this determination is based upon two issues appearance and safety first let me touch on the safety issue as you well know I'm sure the regulations say that any fence that you have has to stop 25 ft short of the center line not a problem uh and we are going to stop well short of that uh limit the regulation requires this that setback this accommodates the visibility for the safety of pulling in and out of the driveway we plan to uh that's regardless of the fence height we plan to top the end of the fence line by a post that can be seen regardless of fence height if we finish the fence with a 4ot fence we're going to need a post so we can see it when we back in we're on a hill so looking out the back window it might be a little hard to see 4 foot fence so we want to put a post that will make sure that we don't hit our own fence the second issue is appearance despite exposure to the street this is our side yard a privacy fence is neither intrusive nor unattractive in this position in fact it's rather necessary in this day and age of intense surveillance and so-called security cameras the houses on uh our own driveway and walkway combination is our only entrance to our house and yard we sit in a pit uh so we need the driveway and sufficient space for a walkway we're both in our 70s and we have each been carried out of the house via gurnie so we have to make sure that we have emergency access when our cars are parked there I've lived next to renters for 17 of the 24 years that I've been here some renters come to this property jealously eyeing my driveway seeming to believe that I had no right to that much space one tried to store a boat another ran a part-time landscaping business out of my driveway these were short-term problems that I managed to settle amicably recent owners attempted a land grab by building a fence more than a foot over our property line then calling the police with false claims of harassment when I wrote a letter requesting they remove it it took action by Sparta zoning Andre coio to get them to move the fence however there remains some baggage over the property line that's been obscured from view by tarps I've been marking the property line because of the disparity in the between the walkway and the driveway since 2015 it's marked along the lines of the latest survey it was clearly marked when the latest owners purchased 54 Spring Brook Trail by their own admission they bought 54 Spring Brook Trail without an inspection and without a survey now we're happy when someone buys a property and fixes it up that helps everybody the intention may be to flip it for a profit that's fine with me as long as they make an improvement I think it's unfair however when someone attempts to flip a property selling rights to our property along with their own now we don't know what the new owner has in mind for 54 Springbrook it won't know until after August 1st when the property closes it is ideal as a rental it's also ideal as an Airbnb although I realize there's now a 28 day limit we need as much privacy as possible to protect against the kinds of things that we've been going through we want to spend our retirement here without further harassment and in the privacy of our own home and property the owners to be the owner to be a 54 Springbrook also favors the privacy fence up to that second post as do the departing owners if you recall m m Miss sio's statement at 2 hours 21 minutes into the June 12th meeting quote I'm for it absolutely unquote please take the time to consider only two issues at stake appearance and safety I hope you'll agree with us that privacy as well as as part of the appearance and it and appearance is enhanced and appropriate for both properties we'd like the privacy fence to extend 20 ft beyond our foundation and a decorative Pole to Mark the position of the fencing again we can finish the fence if there's a a with four foot picket beyond that point but we would prefer to have a decorative Pole to mark that 4-foot picket so we can safely back in thank you that's all thank you Nancy anything else Mr Lynch we have nothing else now um Glenn should we first go over David's Report with the applicant before we get back to the obors Mr chairman I think that makes sense uh understand that Dave may have taken another look at this and may have some additional information for the boards so I think that would be helpful sir okay David uh Mr chairman unfortunately I was not at the last meeting so if I'm redundant please bear with me but I did prepare a report dated May 21st 2024 and in that report I looked at the information that the applicant did submit excuse me Dave do you have that Mr Lynch with you so you can go over look to find it need a copy of the May 21st report May yes and basically with regards to the variances they are in the R3 residential Zone they're requir they're requesting a variance for a six foot high privacy fence and 13 ft of the front yard where four foot high Fen is allowed as the applicant indicated again there proposing a solid fence rather than the limit of 50% solid fencing and at the end of the driveway toward Springbrook Trail my understanding is they're proposing a six foot high decorative pole so when they go to back of their car in is shown on the picture that I took and attached to my report they've got something to aim for that they can see um under miscellaneous I included a copy of that photo uh some of the posts have already been installed as I noted I didn't see any interference with any utilities that are on the site that I could tell um the boundary survey of 56 Spring Brook Trail did not identify the location of any underground utility lines but I did notice that there's a gas meter on the northeast side of the home the utility marks the utility line should be marked to make sure there's no conflicts with the proposed uh fence construction obviously they've got a call the 1800 call before you dig number before they did any construction and the one other question that I had for the applicant on the decorative pole that would be closest to Spring Brook Trail would there be a light no I wasn't planing the only kind of light I'd even consider putting on there would something smaller and not cheaper okay just a market just a market okay and again uh Mr chairman and board members I included a copy of the photo that I took when I visited the site and I was able to find the Capa survey points for the property corners while I was out there on the and again it just by visual appearance looked like the proposed post that are constructed were on the applicant side of that property and that's my report Mr chairman all right thank you I think uh Glen should we have our board members that have any questions to present them now or wait until after the objectors testimony again it's up to you it might be you've already heard it so it might be unless just something burning coming up I would just hear from the public and just you have a question rich I have one quick question I'll never tell Rich not then only uh the applicant tonight has said that she would like to extend it even further further now is that further than where the posts are shown on your photograph I'm I'm confused now as to how far forward the fence is going to come he was saying 20 uh how many feet now Nancy well the original request was for 12 feet Beyond which was the first empty post now we're asking for 20 feet Beyond which includes both posts is shown in this picture shown in that picture that's as far as it would go any further fencing we'd put in the 4-foot picket but that's another reason that I want the decorative pole it's hard to see a 4 foot pick it out your so is the is the the last post that's going to be put in the one that's shown in the photograph now or is it going to be additional post closer to the street uh uh if if I put in a picket fence the last post of the picket fence would be taller doesn't have to be six feet just tall enough to view out the back window I don't think that's answering his question privacy would go by my request Rich did that answer I didn't get the answer to the question well I'm going to install more fence yeah you're talking about putting full panel to the posts that are shown in Dave's photograph and only that far and then adding another post further down because we have nine more feet to go and I need to add I'd like to add the picket fence from that last post to the post that we're talking about a decorative post so the decorative post would be how close to the road at the edge of the road uh the middle are you yeah 20 no more than 25 ft it's more like 28 ft from the center line of the roadway I don't think the road was that wide but no it's not that wide but okay good you have any comments on that Dave no I I did notice when I was out on site it doesn't show up in the picture because it's towards the bottom but where I my recollection is where I saw the uh surveyor Corner marker uh it was closer to Spring Book Trail than the closest Post in this picture so there's I believe there's probably room for the way the applicant's describing it okay the other item that was brought up at the last meeting was whether or not you had gotten approval from Lake Mohawk Country Club in writing sine she's fine I have the letters it was included in your you have a copy of that marce no I didn't get a letter for that I got this original councel you gota anything like that's got to be made part of the file I thought they were I just got the original letter that when you first applied for it I didn't get the what's the date on the letter you're looking at Council cember 28 2023 can I look at that please I have I I have to go pull it in my office because I'm not sure if this is the exact one I got before when they did the application and that that letter says what you want to read ited by Township zoning permit 23- 494 is approved by this office with condition per as well as Marissa then you could call on a board members before we get to the obors for any questions that they will have um Michael Lei no other questions thanks Richard robacker I've got a couple of questions that go back a bit and I'm not quite sure who I need to address them to I don't know whether Mr Simmons Mr K or the applicant or the objector Rich get to the questions and then we'll figure it out who's going to answer them okay I just want to get this out there um it was stated that this area of spring Brook Trail is one of the oldest areas in Lake Mohawk and the driveway is common siamesed as another way to describe it I suppose um between 56 and 54 my question is how long has that driveway been a common driveway between the two properties shall I answer I don't care who answers no not yet it is not a common driveway the house at 54 is not zoned for a driveway apparently that lot was truncated when the house that I live in 56 was built uh that was my house was built in 1948 the 54t lot of 60 ft wide that includes approximately 8 foot of walkway on that side on on the side of the house that is a but a beam my driveway but it is not a shared driveway it never it's not a common driveway according to your testimony corre is not a common driver um my question is going to have to wait for the second half of the answer for the objector so I'm going to come back to this question um that's kind of key to my decision okay thank you Rich go ahead Marissa for the rest of the board please mark Scott hi um Dave could you tell me if uh is is there any is there any safety risk with uh having the fense that high pulling out I I think the particular discussion that you've had as I understand it plus tonight they're keeping the fence back far enough so that when the vehicle gets to within so many feet of the edge of the pavement of Spring Brook Trail they're not there sight distances and blocked by the fence that's the key thing right there and the fence in your picture is at 8 feet tall correct six six and they want to extend these are post I didn't measure them they're prox I'd say they're approximately six foot tall maybe a little bit more and and you want to go to 12 feet tall no no six no um I'm you're thinking 12et Beyond you're thinking vertically I'm thinking horizontally okay the 12 foot limit was the my initial request now I'm asking for 20 feet horizontally six foot limit any further fencing and I still have plenty of room left for more fence uh will be picket and 4 foot only and will be back 25 ft from the center C line well actually 28t from the center line and Dave do you know or how can we find out is the property at next door is that zoned for a driveway I mean is does zoning cover driveways I I really wasn't furnished any information on the property next door so I I can't answer that really okay that was come from Mr coacho Andrew coocha told us that the house was next that 54 was not for hence we have our fence permit thank you Mark Lon teneri I don't have any questions at this time chairman Kenneth Lowry none at this time Marissa okay now we can get to the objectors GL and then David would you mind coming up and sitting at the that desk there for the moment because the two objectors will have to come in if you don't mind I appreciate it problem not a problem Mr CH I'll clean up up here make some room for Davey thank you David objectives you can come forward even though you were sworn in at the last meeting if you can reiterate your names and addresses to the secretary again at this t you can sit there please and again your names and addresses to our secretary Natasha 54 Spring Brook Trail where does it go and your name too to and uh to the secretary my name is uh Anthony tooro tell me address4 Spring Book Trail all right if you can uh please State your objections to well objections that we haven't heard yet yes new objections what else do you have I understand not to rehash the old objections from the last meeting clearly understand what you were saying thank you you're welcome um and thank you for letting me come over here because I can't reach that microphone much appreciated um do I I don't need to stand up do I can you hear me properly this time no yes okay first of all I did have an inspection um move the mic a little closer can you move that closer Natasha we have to get the recording of everything okay sorry I had to take quite a few notes better there you go um um in regards to Mr Johnson's testimony that is all completely false um my lights go off when they come to the center of events and they were put there after the vandalism which I showed you the pictures of all the spray painting of my posts and everything um they don't go off when he goes to his grill I don't know when he goes to his grill to be honest with you um uh I did get an inspection and I was provided um a report a survey report that showed the lot now I asked my questions when I bought the house obviously you don't go buying a house without asking all these important questions and I it was explained that when um Lake Mohawk was built in I think 1923 um everybody was given a lot and that lot the houses were built on it and you had your driveway and my house was built in 1945 therefore I Believe Miss noes said as was born off um built afterwards um and I did ask that question if the driveway had been shared the entire time and I was told yes I was very cognizant of the fence that was already there made sure and the cones that were already there and made sure and I've provided you pictures you didn't have them last time so I did bring you copies in case you needed them you did say that you were going to send everybody out to take a look we didn't say that we said that the board it would be a good idea for the board to go the reason would also be a good idea for Mr Simmons to just take a look if he had a chance okay because um if um had as you're all aware I've told you myself and um I do have a lot of security cameras and I was waiting for people to come along you can see that since this fence has been erected one foot over from the existing fence that they have um it's impeded my use of part of the driveway that I bought the house at as it was listed um so you know that I have an objection with it for that reason we both have trucks um I think it's quite um interesting that they know a closing date that I don't even have on a house um but unfortunately um before we go any further I do think you guys should know um that due to further actions and I am prepared this time um this has actually escalated to torturous interference and Miss NVA I'm going to try and help you out Natasha maybe from the technical side of your objections versus the animosity of both sides if you can get more technical okay well this is technical it provides everything you need well hold hold on sorry I know not so sure that the Board needs it or even wants it sorry Mr kind I apologize what the Board needs to hear is why you object what's going on between you folks as a joint Property Owners is not of a concern to the board what is a concern of the board is whether or not it should be granting the variance relief for the fence as proposed by the applicant what the board wants to hear is why you don't think it should Grant the variance and quite frankly what doesn't enter into the board's consideration and the board knows this but I'll just remind you all it it's not personal it's not personal to who owns one house and who owns the other as Dave would lecture you and as I would lecture everyone what happens is any variance that's granted runs with the land so if you sell your house tomorrow or you sell a house tomorrow it doesn't make any difference what is going on personally it's whether or not the fence meets the criteria that you need to to get the C variance relief that's necessary that's the concern of the board okay um thank you um however the request is built on quite a few lies regarding my driveway it is a driveway I have Jack there's no I excuse me you objected last time I'm opposing this is my due process and I have every excuse me first off you don't address each other you only address it through the chair or if the chair allows me but I'm only his I'm only his assistant you have to address everything through the chair you have to keep it technical like the attorney said with the c variant requests we could stay here all night with the animosity and I I assume like you showed all the pictures the last time this can go on forever but as we stated the variance if approved will go to the land not the applicants if it's not approved so be it but we can't stay here all night going back and forth with this since it's just a simple C variance relief application that Mr Lor I do understand however my house has a driveway and here on my survey and a letter that was sent to miss noes to by Miss noes to the owner of the realtor claiming um misrepresentation it's cost me a fortune in lawyers by the way to sort this out it clearly states on my survey gravel driveway I bought it with the driveway so my problem is you are being presented with evidence to get what she wants which I told you was a last ditch attempt to impede me using the driveway and I've told you multiple videos of it saying that it my driveway is on my Lee field which if you all live in Sparta you know you can't park on elitefield um so it's not true all right let me let me let me hit your pause button for a second if it's all right can Mr Simmons you were out there do you did you come up with any conclusion as to where the driveways are I mean certainly apparently from what you said you saw an iron pin in the ground Dave right when I was out visiting the site uh shown on the picture that I attached to my May 21st 2024 report uh there was a vehicle backed in on the applicant's property and there was also a vehicle backed into to a portion of a driveway on the obor's property so there's a gravel driveway basically on both Lots okay and there was no evidence was there of and maybe it's out there I don't know was there any evidence of an easement or something else that would have transcended what the property line is was nothing in the file that you saw it was there Dave not that not that I received and as I said uh I did find a couple of the property Corners that were Stak by the applicant surveyor and that was approximately right along the line of the posts that are shown in that photo okay could I please give this to you because it's it's clearly states gravel driveway and point and and marks out the lot and these um untruths that are being said are going to help you decide so they need to be cleared up it's not an animosity I've tried to ignore this for 18 mons take a breath take a breath take a breath you want to submit I'm sorry Ken submit that then so I think Dave should take a look if that's a survey we could mark it as as public one please bring a Flor to our attorney Mark it I have copies for all of you for the attorney please Natasha he'll Mark him no no you're not being picked up so don't don't even don't talk because we won't get you Dave Dave has been reading these since he was a pup all right Dave why don't we make that the official copy and we'll just Mark easy you're not being anything you're saying you're not being picked up uh I'm gonna mark it as N1 for neighbor and I'm going to give this to Dave so you can digest it and she said she had others um these are all the same ma'am yes yes but I did bring just handed me hold on hold on she just handed me two no there should be C and I gave one to Dave so I'll share with Dave and you guys have to share down there we're good we all get along okay are there enough for down there enough yep you're good thank you you're welcome okay so how I bought my driveway my house was where the driveway for two cars the width of a car now sa I've spoken to her since that letter and she told me that you the sparta is owning who preds HOA rules and Mr KES I do remember last time I talked about bias I have had bias with the HOA I've spoken to Z about this and she told me that not to worry and so did Andrew that Sparta zoning o supersedes the HOA I had a discussion with the buyer not quite buyer yet due to interference but the buyer just two days ago after the letter that is attached to that um and he had also called Sparta himself so he is under the impression that the sparta zoning is has the final say so that's where I'm getting to with the fact that now my neighbors have met all four of the needs for the aous interference which will be being filed so My worry is that should you not hear the truth and see the truth and you decide that this fence which will impede my use of the driveway it already is in the back um what sorry what was your name Sir Mr Simmons Mr Simmons if you saw my car you would have seen that now with that fence a foot over from their existing fence I cannot exit and enter my vehicle pull back byy the house like it was sold to me that driveway has always been shared and when this issue started the um conversation when I wanted to put up a fence um I was told by Mr by Andrew can't I can't pronounce his last name sorry um that it was a shared driveway according to my neighbor it was a share driveway and I couldn't have one and so I had to take my deed in to prove that it had been used as a share driveway and always used this a share driveway but I just wanted a small fence to protect my car due to the incessant need to park on the property line and may not be able to use the driveway that's all this boils down to now when it comes to the decorative post that also will be uh an issue for me backing in and if this next sale falls through due to interference like the last three I will be moving back in and as I said last time between us we have five children that drive and we both own trucks so I will be using my driveway and the road so it needs to and if you change my house the way I bought it and then as it's being sold you're leaving me open and the realtor open two lawsuits which then come back on the town because that's how I bought my house and that's how I hold it Mr Lynch you'll have your your uh your chance for rebuttal I'm just saying it would leave me open which the letter from the nebor clearly states that and now the Realtors are having to involve their own lawyers so I'm not bringing this on I'm bringing what was brought to my attention let me let me ask you a question Dave do you have anything uh just referring to exhibit N1 that Mr keen's marked and just so for the record it's entitled survey of property tax lot 17 block 5040 54 Spring Brook Trail Township of Sparta it was a survey prepared by Lakeland surveying and it's dated September 25th 2th 2023 uh it does say gravel driveway the words gravel driveway are labeled on the applicant side of the common property line the limits of the gravel driveway appear to be shown based on what I saw in the field and is on this survey map by a short dash line and that short dash line also extends onto your property uh relatively narrow with over to what's labeled as a block wall now I I should point out that under the notes it said notes field survey performed on September 21st 2023 subject to documents of record survey performed without the benefit of a complete title search and subject to Municipal restrictions easements of record and other facts that a title surge May disclose now the reason I bring that up it does say gravel driveway on the applicant side of the common property line there is a dash line that I take to indicate the limits of the gravel both on the applicant and your properties I don't see anything on here looking at it quickly that says it's a quote unquote common driveway as in shed when you say common B your pardon you mean as in shared when you say common driveway you are you implying shared driveway because I asked why it was written there and he said so I could see my entire space I was just looking for uh a recorded easement or document in a particular book and page in the county clerk's office that would indicate that it was in fact recorded that way I don't see it on this survey I'm not saying it does or doesn't exist it's just not on the survey well the survey didn't find it and that would be something that they should have done if they did it correctly yes in in going out to see so I think Dave correct me if I misunderstood you I think what you're saying is that lot 17 for the the neighbor's property here if in fact it was to be a quote shared driveway there should have been some kind of document some kind of easement some kind of something that allowed them to use some of lot 18 that's what I would have assumed yes and the other the reverse of that is that there could be a document that in cbers lot 18 and says that you know they have the right they have an easement to come across part of your property too so there could be it could be on either side of the boundary line you agree with that yes but it's not shown here and nobody's providing a copy of that to us neither the applicant nor the neighbor not that I've seen okay um sorry I got lost in all the technicalities that no I I really wanted to Dave keeps it very very clear and simple that's what I love about this guy but the bottom line is it appears that there's no easement on this side to allow them to come and use some of the stuff on the left side on the applicant side just as the applicant didn't produce anything indicating that there's an encumbrance on theirs that that requires them to keep it open for the adjoining property owner that it's it's really seems to me to be that simple I'm not saying it doesn't exist I'm saying we don't have it how do we go forward with that Glenn in terms of uh council did you did title work on your property did you do any title work not for this application but miss Nas may have something to say as to that well she's not she's not licensed to we're getting into some property issues here so I don't I don't want to waste the board's time uh did you guys when when you guys purchased your property is there an easement is there an incumbrance no easement there is no incumbrance and we did do a complete title search back in 1999 okay that's had to house okay that takes care of that side no other driveway but mine I I get it that takes care of that side what do you got I took my title to Andrew and showed him that it I'm sorry Andrew is Andrew you say his last name K thank you I'm sorry and Andrew is who enforcement code enforcement uh I don't know that Andrew is qualified to say anything about this I'll tell you the reason why because when I was trying to hit offence my neighbor was arguing it's a share driveway it's a share driveway it's always been a Shar driveway and I'm like okay fine I just want to protect my truck because you insist on parking 3 Ines away from it um so when I showed in the title it states know my house I have a drive with a driveway I bought it and it is Andrew has never said my house is not for a driveway it doesn't matter what Andrew says I'm just repeating what I Was Heard it doesn't matter what Andrew says the question is is there an easement that allows you to get on to the adjoining property that's I've never used the the neighbor driveway I showed you a photograph too last last time of them going in through my driveway so they didn't have to move their car it didn't bother me none of it bothered me until we started impeding it excuse me do you have an official easement nothing with an easement just the title that states that my house comes with a driveway that's how I bought it that's how I'm selling it and I will be open subject to lawsuits if it gets changed I don't know that's my point I don't know but that you don't have a driveway I don't know whe that's a drive whether she could fit a car on that side and I don't know anything about the I have the photo of the car if you want it in my car in my driveway I might add to um if you see on both even the survey the OB presented you look up at the it's flush with the I guess front right corner of stage right it says 7.1 ft and from my research the New Jersey Administrative Code provides for a driveway to be no less than eight feet so anything beyond that point wouldn't constitute a driveway anyway and to my if from our survey there was nothing on reflecting gravel driveway on their property it was only gravel driveway was only reflect on their on their survey reflecting our property being a grael so well I I don't even understand that Council because it doesn't matter what their survey says about what's going on in your property they weren't hired Dave correct me if I'm wrong they weren't hired to look at your property whatever driveway your folks have is what they have whatever driveway she has is what she has and that would have come out in theory I think on the survey as Mr Simmons pointed out and uh there's no indication that that exists now the question Dave is based on I guess this is septic plan septic system as built is this showing sufficient space for a car I can't figure it out if I may there isn't because there's a maple tree there and there's three feet well there can't be too much of a maple tree because you got a septic well that's one of the things is the root going Mr Simmons answer the question looking for the record looking at the plan by lion engineering entitled septic system as built block 540 lot 17 54 Spring Brook Trail dat of March 14 2016 uh the disposal bed in the front of the house on the Spring Brook Trail side uh is situated that it allows sufficient room for a vehicle to pull in or back into that driveway on your property the driveway correct but not to park on the landing and again I refer to the photograph that I attached to the report I did May 21st 2024 it physically shows presumably your vehicle backed into the drive it the big is it the truck with the tent on the top it's this truck yes yes that's my truck so physically when I visited the site it's it fit in that site yes between the passenger door and the posts that were in place at the time of my inspection there's there's not a lot of room you may not be able to open the door I can't I came home to it actually blocked in with the fence which I provided in and they were getting out the driver's side they could get out the driver's side that's me yes but it's a again I bought it as a house with W two car spaces one car width so with them putting that fence a foot over further than their original fence now it is taken away the ability to drive there when it has always been sold like that and always been used like that and I do have photos of them parked on the driveway which I'm not on the line sorry and getting out on my side just and as you can see I provided you with these last time and I bought them for your record they're 7 feet on their passenger side but they just insisted on parking on the line and getting out on my part I never didn't bother me didn't bother me but she wanted me on the leech field and that's where this all stes from and that's why it's now escalated to torturous interference and I am worried and also they claimed not to have any other parking or access to their house this is on the other side that that doesn't enter into it let's let's Mr chairman do you have you have anything else you want to bring to the board's attention yes it's 36 ft from the center line not 25 um and I'm sorry what's 36t from the the uh fence from uh where the fence can end by as per SP tell that there's a 36 foot setback for a fence from the center line of a road that's what I was that's it's in it's in the it's in it's on it's online on the spot with all the um information that was sent to me it has to be 36 ft back from the center line and so you saw the roads they're not wide well hold on hold on let's let's stay with one issue at a time I thought the center line setback was 25 ft it's 36 I heard you I thought the center line said set back was 25 ft I it into your text if you'd like I don't all I can do is I'm not here to do the Spade work for applicants if I'm representing you I do it differently but I'm not here to do that so the question is what the applicant um had suggested Glenn to a 25 ft from the roadway center line from the only thing Mr chairman if I may just referring back to the survey that was prepared by Lakeland surveying that I referenced before I will say Spring Brook Trail on this survey is shown as having a 30 foot wide right away so half the right away is 30 feet I'm not saying the physical Center Line of the pavement is exactly in the middle but if you take that uh half of it 15 ft and then you go another 10 foot back if if the 25 ft was adhered to and from the right away back 10 ft then if a vehicle pulled up from the applicant's property the fence wouldn't be in the way of looking to the left to see Vehicles approaching and cause a sight distance problem all right thank you David yeah well do we uh have uh closing arguments again Mr Lynch or your do you have any more test just one second Mr chairman do you have any other testimony um just to say that um what you just said about the center line I have to back into my driveway as you can see um and that fence the closer that fence is and I told you this from the beginning it's to stop me using it the closer that fence is to the road the harder it is I you already see how tight it is I bought the house knowing it I can park I lived in London for long enough I can park in small spots but this is interfering with my parking and again is going to leave me open and subject to lawsuits once my house is sold if it is altered if the way the house has always been is altered there's rules to be followed for a reason and needing a post to guide you in I have a video of today moving 5 Ines over she doesn't need a poster guide or in she's perfectly capable it is to stop me using the driveway and to park on the Lo field which you're not supposed to do I'm asking you please don't reduce price getting to the personal that's getting to the personal stuff the board has the testimony the board has to figure that out okay anything else um I'm not they're not asking you and I can read excuse me excuse me there's only one person that you should be talking to that's the gentleman in the middle there's only one thing I do want to say being is they are hyping up um this is a it's not it's not personal as you say if these guys want to get personal I'd like to read the things that were sent to me because it is a campaign it's me a campaign I hate campaign and they wanton me using my driveway house is worth what it is because it comes with the driveway that I purchased it with okay so anything else anything else just uh sorry for getting a little up there all right thank you Natasha and you're finished Mr Lynch yes I just like to add hold on can I don't know whether there's other public no I'm just saying if he's then I'm going to open it to the public L yeah I just want to make sure he's all complete with his testimony uh just considering uh the totality of the uh testimony I mean the there's need for uh privacy defense I believe that's evident and considering the board's Engineers report um defense is in line with the standards and the the relief that we're asking is isn't going to cause a detriment to the public and is in line with The Spar ordinances thank you all right thank you I'll now open it to the public if anyone has any questions or comments please come forward to the microphone and state your name and address to the secretary yes Dean Murray 15 Parkway just pull that closer to you so you don't have to be like a giraffe okay you can actually take you can actually you can pull the mic out oh oh Dean Murray 15 Birch Parkway I am not a neighbor uh wait a minute why what's your interest in this application okay I am a resident of 41 years and I was on the board of trust I want to find out what she's before I swear if she's not within are you within you weren't noticed within 200t of the prop is that correct no but I was on the board at Lake mohal Country Club for 15 years and these spats have come up time and time again okay let's swear you in then let's raise your right hand ma'am do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth the proceedings before the board tonight's help you God yes would you spell your first name and your last name please d e a n m u r r a y and you reside where D uh Birch Parkway okay which is part of go ahead um I'm basically here because this I had heard the wind of of the gist of what was going on and I can tell you that we've had this issue when I was on the board at the Country Club time and time again and our engineer at the time my Cote we also had a uh it was a board member who was in a tit fortat pardon my choice of words uh with his neighbor and it was a courtesy use and he demanded his neighbor correct the deed because he said we had an agreement with the previous owners that we could use this driveway well there was nothing there never was a very narrow lot and to this day there was nothing ever changed it impeded the neighbor's house but there are a lot of lots in Lake Mohawk there is no driveway and that's why the the more current rules and whatever you're all passing where you need to have a driveway on your property can't can't be handled in Lake moha Cancer's of parking on the road so I've also known these folks for over 20 some years and um I'm just stating that that it in the past I have dealt with these sort of things when we were on the Board of Trustees so to not assume that you have permission to use a driveway is truly a shared use it is just a fact and unfortunately it's one of those things it's a Nuance to Lake Mohawk thank you for your Insight we appreciate it let's just leave that on the top of the rail Natasha we still have to get through the rest of the public I do have something to say anyone else please come forward please give your name and address to the secretary Gail Warner g a i l w r n r 58 springberg Trail I've lived in my home excuse me you'll have to swear into if don't mind yeah hell swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board tonight's help you God I do and your name is still G Warner right it is all right go ahead it is I've lived in my house for 47 years and I just wanted to um make a statement that this house at 52 there's always been parking on the street anyone that has been in this house has parked on the street so for her to say that you cannot park on the street is not true thank you you're welcome anyone else from the public please come forward and as usual please give your name and address to the secretary hi my name is Michelle Rome I'm at 57 Spring Brook R yes You' swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings yes I I do go ahead Michelle okay um so I am the neighbor uh directly across the street from lar Nancy novaris um we've only been in this neighborhood for years when we moved in there was a different owner in 54 spring book um and the that owner always parked on what um 54 spring Brook's owner is saying is a leech field there was actually all the grass was well worn down and the car always parked there because this space was not wide enough from um Miss nars's driveway to the side of the house on 54 Springbrook to really park there they had I think two kids uh that also drove so that was three cars all three cars would park on the street that's how it had been for uh years from what I understood um I think you know this is unfortunately tip for Tat but the bottom line I said to Nancy is that this is just something that you have to you put an application in and you have to clear is it going to pass the variance that's why you're here so I just want to say that I watched the June 12th um meeting that you had it was a lot of minutia in my opinion but unfortunately that's what happens um the best neighbors are the ones with fences hopefully um you'll give her what she needs so that the future could be a lot brighter um on on their end um the one last thing I'm going to say is that we do spend a lot of time with this neighbor on her deck we have nice dinners over there but the constant lights turning on we're literally sitting there like feet like probably 25 ft away from these security cameras it's very disruptive and clearly they're listening we feel like they're listening to our our conversations it just doesn't yeah that's anyway I just wanted to say our piece because we hope this uh goes through for them we don't object all right thank you for your testimony anyone else in the public please come forward please do please give your name and add address to the secretary yes Jerry Murphy 161 Alpine Trail the mic out there you go raise your right hand Jerry please you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth the proceedings before the board tonight help you got I do go ahead Jerry uh I lived on Spring Brook Trail when it was a dirt road the center line argument is probably not very valid because that's a moving Target uh as far as uh generally hearing this this is a c variance that's it I've heard a lot lot of irrelevant discussion but I would like the board just to consider the merits of a c variance only and disregard diminution thank you and thank you Jared anyone else in the public see no one else in the public is now closed to the public back to the hearing Natasha you had some comments with the uh yes given by the public yes first of all in me uh regards to what Miss Murray stated about the other neighbors having a verbal um you know agreement that so and so not my driveway whoever she was talking about that's verbal agreement I have legal papers I bought that house um in regards to what Miss Warner said well in 2016 the Lee field was a new Lee field was put in so yeah maybe there were cars park on there before then but now before then but you know and I was told by my septic inspector not to park on there my first time having a septic system I abide by the rules like when you're on o telling the truth um and as for there being um Miss Miss Rome's um uh testimony she actually sent me a text saying how nice the grass looked and she was so happy that I'd managed to get it grown that's not the one I was talking about you'd love to hear the other one so and as for the gentleman from Alpine Drive when it was a dark Road it's a dark Road things are improved now we have our lines which thank goodness we do because now we can have a fair hearing I've given you all of my things I've explain why I've been told that if this fence is put up like that it's ugly it's not a pretty picket fence as she stated um on the record last time it's 6 foot orange theer and going on about how lovely the street is it is lovely until you get to nearly my get nearly get to my house and now you see just the two panels of this bright orange six foot fence it's bright orange just take it nearly all the way up the driveway so not only is it ugly it will impede my thing and it will bring down the cost more than it's already been B down by people being told that it's an illegal driveway when they are viewing my home three buyers hence the torturous interference motion that's being filed now would the applicant and the neighbor have any concessions they would like to make or discuss before the board moves to have a motion in regards to the SE variance you say concessions concessions would anyone have any concessions here we try to work things out a lot of times before we get to a motion to vote that's why I'm bringing I've been doing this 25 years A lot of times animosity between neighbors they do have concessions and they work things out I have always been able to do that until this past year I have always worked things out one way or ma'am the answer the answer is just just yes or no we don't Mr Lynch there any concessions to work out here or not honestly but there has been extensive back and forth and uh any back any potential concessions discussion would not going to work no do I got to say on the concessions I offered um the law firm the chance to mediate this to avoid this but as the last time I was sent this accusatory with Merit message I was ignored now I as of now no concessions all right that's complete yeah no and when I do want to say when it stays and show the minutes but when I said I wanted a privacy fence I showed you why I was up for a privacy fence I want the fence to be as per the rules because that's how I'm selling my house and you know you would you said you you advised the the gentleman over there the lawyer I don't remember his name my apologies you advised him to advise your clients to take down those posts for my further viewings and the signs join home and put will be completed in July so which gives give be I beg to think she got some uh info that I don't have I've given you everything the truth and you saw how upset I up when the truth wasn't said last time under oath when you swear to tell the truth under oath you tell the truth I've given you the truth and what it's going to do to my house and my life even after I sell it all right Natasha we understand and we appreciate all your testimony thank you I'll open it to the board one last time before we have a motion if any board members have any other questions Landon Mark yes go ahead Glenn Glenn or Dave is there such thing as a shared driveway I mean if you have a property line one person has to stay on the o one side and other person has to stay on the other side unless there's an easement isn't that correct yes sir okay so or an easement or something that that showed it when it was originally done I mean we used to do common drives yes in new subdivisions I thinking of a couple that we did together out in Lafayette where they'd come in off the road Mark they'd come in and it'd be a little wider there and then one driveway would go this way and one would go that way so that's what you're talking about but these are old plotted Lake Mohawk Lots as the board knows better than probably Davey and me okay um I don't know if this is a question or a comment why I just make a mo you want to just make a motion get a motion and then you can discuss the motion out okay unless you need more information more yes is are all these posts on your property absolutely right within well within okay they're not a foot within they are less than a foot within but they are definitely within as I think gentleman said he ascertained for sure that those posts were in fact on my side of the pro and that's allowed by code Dave right there's no setback that you have to be off based on based on the uh property Corners that were set on the applicant's property that I observed in the field in addition to the corners ma'am ma'am ma'am it's closed it's closed it should just stay up here because otherwise we have to open it up to the public again Mr chairman and so did you get your answer mark from Dave yes any other questions mark um no no iuss my opinion no once once a motion is up you can say what you're thinking but I would I would call for a motion Mr chairman I just want to get uh Rich Rob Back ahe had uh another question you said after the objectives I just want to finish all the questions I received the um answer during the objector testimony okay thank you and uh Rich no nothing all right the chair will entertain a motion approving the application 424 Nancy novares and Lara Johnson sure thank you Mike yeah Mr I'll make a motion have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application number 0424 for Nancy Nas and larer Johnson block 5040 lot 18 at 56 Springbrook Trail seeking C variances for the 6 foot high privacy fence were four 4 foot high excuse me as permitted um the privacy fence to be solid rather than 50% solid um a 6ot high decorative pole along the driveway rather than a 4ft pole and I believe I saw in the applic existing non-conforming condition of roughly one one foot side yard setback where a 10 foot is required U with conditions of adherance to all stipulations laid out in the board Engineers report and Mike I don't know if I heard it or not uh would you amend it to have our board attorney prepared or did I miss that I'm not sure you missed that but that's fine yeah that's okay sorry fast thank you now do we have a second I'll second I'll second the motion with one one clarification now under discussion sure uh the discussion tonight was they want to extend in another panel as opposed to what's in the application right what do we what do we yeah we have um when she was going out I don't think there was a variance for that unless I misunderstood because they're going to drop to the the 4 foot which is permitted no they wanted to extend the six foot high fence and extra panel like that was the request tonight which is which is a change from the application that correct Glenn then uh I'm just I had in my report that it was going to extend 13 ft and I think you said 20 is what you wanted yeah to the second post there are two empty posts I wanted the privacy fence to go to the second post which would be approximately 20 feet from the foundation all right so from 13t to 20 ft would that be six foot high or 4 foot high six foot high so the whole thing would be six High any remaining fence would be the 4 foot Pi what now if if we install further fencing beyond that second post it would be 4 foot picket fence so a maximum of 20 feet in front of your foundation would be six foot high privacy fence correct okay that's the change from my original application 8 ft good got it okay does that answer it good yep okay now any uh any discussion before we take Dave vote Dave if we go forward with an 8 foot privacy fence is that going to cause a safety issue no because it's going to be at least 25 ft back from the center line of Spring Book Trail wherever the fence ends and because the pavement width is I'm estimating is approximately 12T wide Lane that's an estimate so if it's 20 that's another 13 ft and that's almost the length of a car the driver's eye isn't going to be impeded by that fence all right Mark yeah may I make a comment yeah sure go ahead so I stood there and I went I did 360 Degrees standing right there and I don't see a f a privacy fence anywhere anywhere I drove up springb Trail I didn't see a privacy fence anywhere it it's not in the code and I don't understand why we have to in my opinion I I'm not for the change all right than I mean if they want to go six feet with a this the uh slats I could be I could you know amend it to that Mark did you did you say 6 feet or 8 feet high I thought I heard you just say eight maybe I misunderstood because I don't think they're proposing eight six six they're proposing six right and they want to extend it out I know but there are no other privacy fences around there it doesn't seem to fit the area and I think that the code is the code for a reason I vote no or I we didn't take the vote opinion that's your opinion are there any other comments all right Marissa you could call the uh role please Richard Lupa yes Michael Leoni yes Robert robacker Richard excuse me Richard rocker Robert's my evil TW I'm sorry that's all right um no Mark Scott no l taner no chairman Kenneth Larry yes okay it's not approved so it's denied thank you and uh mariss could you read the vote for the public I'm sorry can you read the vote for the public the amount um three yeses and three Nows thank you okay all right thank you everyone thank you for your time I just had a question there's the defense panels that will put up do they get removed now the post and the fence panels that are there because there post that's not for the board to determine the construction Department figure out I I have no idea and the board would not comment on that Bo's just making judgments on applications that pend that are pending before them thank you thank you I appreciate that your time I really do thank [Music] you no uh yeah e e e e e e e e e e e next application 5-24 Main Street Creations LLC block number 2802 lot three Force variance relief then just before we begin sir uh after you present your application first the entire application will then open it to our board and our Professionals for their comments and issues okay if any and then we'll open it to the public okay fair enough all right okay go ahead sir thank you Mr chairman uh members of the board appreciate your time this evening my name is William Asin Askin and hooker here in Sparta Township I'm here tonight on behalf of the applicant my client M spe creations LLC and the application relates to property that they own in Block 28002 lot 3 uh the application is for development of a residential property and uh your consideration for approval would require uh sidey yard setback and and a few miscellaneous pre-existing um non-conforming conditions with a lot itself support of our application we also included materials included a survey uh a planners report from Mr Jason Dunn who will be my first witness uh and uh we have some also some architectural schematics this evening uh from the architect Mr Paul Ashworth also available to testify probably just for questions if the board has any or our civil engineer Mr Owen dystra and then the representative of the owner of the property is Mr Tom alsson who happens to be a licensed engineer but we would be testifying simply as a lay person on behalf of the applicant he's serves for the property as the property manager let me think the the farm manager and if this application is approved and there's eventually development on the property he would be the construction manager so he's very familiar with the property the uses if you have any questions about the uses or what the future holds or what the future holds that the uh the owner would like to see so with that said I I'll turn it over to uh Mr Dunn to present his planning analysis uh I'll ask if the board has any questions if we need to qualify Mr D I'll take care of the rest of that you will thank you asking who's the actual uh applicant the actual owner it's Main Street Creations LLC is the owner of the property and who would that be in terms of individuals or that's an individual that's I I talked to Mr ke briefly before the meeting tonight it's kind of a public personality that we would like to keep confidential um not have it out in the public for obvious reasons all right thank you thank you Mr D you know the drill Mr dun do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth proceedings before the board tonight to help you God yes I do what is your name Jason D and what are you professional planner and licensed landscape architect and you've been qualified under those two titles on numerous occasions before this board is that correct yes it is are you still licensed yes anything else I covered is there all no questions from the board I would assume all right Mr dun thank you um just have a want to start by getting the board oriented to the property Jason are all these part of what was submitted as part of the application but or we have to mark any of them there's um two sheets uh that that I'm would like to enter into exhibits uh they are the same that has been but you but you used your crayons we just used some crayons to uh highlight features shared you rich okay so you want to mark that as A1 J and what is that just the cover sheet variance plan variance plan for Main Street Creations LLC A1 is uh one of two of Main Street Creations LLC variance plan is there a date on it Jason January 31st 2024 okay thank you so this is the cover sheet that was supplied uh to the board um it has a survey property existing conditions map on the left side and a key map on the right side um to start I'd like to draw the attention to the survey of property um I have it highlighted in pink on the left left corner of sheet uh which is Main Street Route 517 another uh Venta or pink line that kind of snakes through these properties and across the rail tracks is the existing Drive driveway the uh Orange Line represents is is a colorized the railroad track property in question is lot three um it's a landlocked lot uh about 31 Acres it's wooded and undeveloped at this time um it is irregular in shape it has a flag stem that connects to the railroad but not all the way to uh 57 um the history of that and the origin of that is not really known to me uh we was talked about in our office that it may have been what's known as a wood lot in the past it was subdivided around the 1800s um the to so in other words to access the lot it has to Traverse uh several other existing Lots um lot one block 28001 which is developed with a single family home uh lot two block 28001 uh which to my knowledge is vacant and then the railroad track lot is lot 38 block 5 0000 and finally um lot two block 8 28002 is the majority of the driveway that leads to lot three um there are existing uh access easements in place uh there is an agreement with a railroad in place uh that uh up to three homes can be built on the three lots uh that share this driveway um lot one two and three block 200081 um I'm sorry 2082 that's a Miss typo um 2082 so that the the easements are in place and we can cross the railroad tracks the condition of the driveway is paved it's approximately 20 ft at its widest it does narrow in some places to about 15 feet and it leads to an existing single family home on lot two lots one two and three are owned uh by sister companies but it's generally the same entity um person so we are proposing a single family home on lot three block 288 28002 um in the planning report I I explained the sort of site conditions and site analysis it shows that the majority of lot three is encumbered by steep slopes um and Bedrock outcrops that's uh that's in um the Geological Survey and the soil surveys uh so that the opportunity to develop this lot is very limited uh as to the areas that can be developed so that's that's one of the reasons we chose um the area that we did the second is that this is uh located within the highlands preservation area so we are seeking um and we believe that we are uh um qualified for a Highlands exemption number five which allows a single family home on a lot that's been subdivided prior to the rule um but as a condition of that exemption uh you would not be able to exceed over one qu acre disturbance or over one uh I'm sorry one acre of disturbance or one quarter acre of new impervious uh this application uh complies with both of those uh thresholds um surrounding properties are also wooded uh to to the South to the South Southeast is a Hawthorne Park club uh that is a homeowners association for Hawthorne Lake uh it's to my knowledge at least anywhere near the property is undeveloped and wooded and then there's the um town of Newton owns uh lot lot 12 which is uh part of the Morris Lake uh conservation property for uh their Reservoir so the likelihood of those two lots being developed is is not really there uh so I just wanted to say that it's is isolated uh there is the existing home on um the neighboring Lot 2 uh however as I said there they're existing uh they coexist if you will access Lea we're asking for is for sidey guard setbacks and to allow the house to be built on uh on a lot that does not about a a public Street there are a few uh existing non-conforming conditions as well that we would ask to get on the record and continue uh to allow this this uh single family H to be built second sheet is uh which is is this a new exhibit or both this was submitted but you used your crayons again yeah just a little bit okay so yeah let's mark that you know what how many other sheets you have you're going to be testifying to that's all I have two let's mark it let's mark them let's keep it as A1 consisting of two sheets okay and just identify what's on the second sheet what's the title or caption on it this is sheet two of two uh titled plot plan dated January 31st 2024 okay thanks Jay uh this sheet has uh several of of the items needed to actually construct the site and the home um it it includes some drainage uh storm water management aspects uh and a height calculation showing that we we will comply with the height of the Zone it's in the RR Zone it does allow single family home residential um and then it has the main part of the sheet is a 50 scale plan showing the area I've High highlighted around with my pink crayon um the area to be developed is about uh 36,000 square feet so so under an acre the house is fairly um close to the property lines uh and that is because mainly because just behind the house there exists a Bedrock outcrop that that's nearly vertical and about 20 feet tall so to move the house further back from the sidelines would require uh the removal of that rock and a lot of a lot more disturbance of the forested areas so that's that's one of the main reasons for our setback variants um it would have have a a a septic system individual septic system for a two-bedroom home um if you will see the architect presents um it's a two-bedroom living quarters but it's also a full-size indoor basketball court um the owner uh is is a professional athlete and has the need and desire to practice away from his home and family and all the things that not not all the time what's while you got to get away and you got to focus on what your training is and right now um that person has to find other places and rent out other spaces uh pretty much for himself and his trainers so it would be very convenient for him to be right nearby his his residence um the driveway is about 30 feet long um and it it could conceivably uh accommodate two cars on the property um but there is a garage which we'll see that the architect will speak it's large enough um that it could accommodate up to five in the garage um I know in the engineers report there was a question about what if this person has guests where would they Park um I will tell you that the use is single family residential with a recreational aspect for his personal use this is not something where he's going to hold tournaments or five on five or whatever full-on basketball games that were to be Spectators and so on that it's not the purpose of this um Mr Dunn would he be open to a condition not allowing that what you just mentioned if we get to that point at the end of um resolution I would exactly would you propose defer oh when we get there I guess we can cover it after we just wanted to plant that idea in your mind and so forth good go and continue um so by rsis standards there is sufficient parking on the lot um for a two-bedroom home uh I think I I covered most of the the setup of what we're asking for is there any questions about that s you can finish your testimony so there was um oh yeah there was one more thing HVAC units uh we spoke with the architect he said they can be provided on the roof uh so there wouldn't be additional impervious or U uh development accommodating hbac units they would be have to be fairly substantial because of the space of the indoor court but also for the living quarters and the U the weight room um so it's my opinion that this this would this is a fairly uh straightforward variance with um a C1 hardship variance because of the the nature of the lot the topography the irregular shape and the uh Bedrock throughout um additionally I think it also can be a C2 where uh it's a better planning alternative rather than U disturbing more land and reducing the size of the of the building um fits all the other aspects of of the lot of the the ordinance uh if not for those two sidey variances um where uh 30 ft is proposed and 50 feet is um is uh that's a required required and then um I see in Mr Simmons report too there's a second variance um where there's supposed to be a total of 100 feet set back and we have a total of 68.3 um that's correct so we'll need a a variance for that as well what was the number 60 what 68.3 thank you Mr chairman you're welcome a total of both side side SE setbacks would be 68.3 where 100 is is uh is uh required required um by way of the location of this I don't think that it would have any negative impact on your Zone plan or the neighbors U the only neighbor it could conceivably impact is um the existing home which is going to be over 180 ft from uh the proposed uh residents um in regards to the private road matter or the um the the called an appeal they call a planning variance where it would allow the driveway to uh serve this uh this proposed residence um you've already have a paved driveway that's right enough to service both both homes um the maintenance agreement would be in place that the responsibility would be on the person furthest in um however the other owners that that uh use the driveway have the right to maintain it as well um but all those paperwork all that paperwork can be supplied so I think that we have access for emergency vehicles to get to the site and turn around sufficient space to turn around and leave the site as well that's all I have all right thank you next professional uh I would uh bring up next our um architect Mr Paul as Glen would you be so kind of course you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth that proceed before the board tonight help you God I do and who might you be I am Paul Ashworth owner of PVA architecture LL Paul spell your last name please w r and you're the proud owner of what company Eva architecture LLC you the license professional architect in state of New Jersey I am state of New Jersey and 20 other states also and is your license valid as of tonight it is have you ever been qualified to appear and testify before a planning or Zoning Board in New Jersey or this one for that matter this one spart yes anything else Mr chairman nothing thank you Glenn any questions from the board on the qualifications seeing none proceed sir than you Jason did an outstanding job of explaining the architecture and the program so what I'm going to do is pull up just the plans the flip through this is all of the information that has been submitted to you outside of this one and I can mark this as an exhibit which is the floor plan the only thing I did was I just added the graphics of five cars inside all right so what did you mark that as Paul uh what do you want me to mark it as I want you to mark it as A2 please A2 if I thank you as always I everything else is exactly as what you have submitted excuse me picking everything up on the yeah I L I can no you're fine so pull these back obviously we've got the floor plans over there and the elevations here and just going to start off with the elevations because it rolls into Jason's description of how it got sighted and how we're going to have to construct it so as you can tell this is towards the rear of the site these are the side elevations this is the entry vice versa over here entry and the hill so what we're going to have to do is the UPS the basketball court is the entry level with the parking right that's recessed and we specifically did it that way to kind of marginalize and minimize the masing of a larger building of the single family house it's going to to have a significantly Tob designed cast in place concrete wall and the stud framing Will Go On on top of it from there um materiality for the residence there it is uh we're going to do it as a pre-cast panel I think and do it with different textures to give some play and some depth to it so it's not just this monolithic looking structure insulated Windows everywhere you can obviously tell that this is the area where the basketball court would be so that you're not breaking windows and that it's protected and this is the sliver of the single family residence walk over here oh I don't knock it over so again first floor you can see it's the basketball court and a support the the concept or statement from Jason that it's not set up for spectators this actual outline is the outline of an NBA basketball court and there's like three feet on the outside so there's not much run out space that's all there really is uh again first floor has got the parking with a staircase and an elevator that goes up second floor obviously open to below and it has a viewing area for people to look um it's got a gym and a massage area along with the bathroom and then the top floor is the bedrooms two bedrooms on sweet bathroom bathroom accessible to the hallway kitchen and living room and we're going to do this as class up there so so you can kind of look out pretty basic there's really anything else Jason did a pretty good job of describing most of it and that's the building and the materials compliant in height meets the average grade I think it's 29 foot4 it's actually right on here 29 fo4 so we're compliant in height the building itself is compliant as Des all right thank you Miss ashon does Mr Dyer have anything to uh testify to Mr D is here in case there might be any questions it requires some engineering testimony I think there should be again I have the representative from the applicant here their questions all right thank you we'll get David's report first before the board has uh their questions and comments if you don't mind David sure Mr chairman thank you uh for the record just referring to the June 13 2024 report that I prepared the applicant did hit most of the items but there are a few things I just just like to highlight uh going over to page two of the report uh Mr Dunn did call out the various variances that were involved including those existing conditions and the planning variants uh they did indicate on under item 4A for the plot plan that my understanding is it's basically a uh owner and limited number of people not necessarily for the tournaments and what have you that uh was a question as far as being able to park every body in the area um I did have a question when I went to the site and I pulled up close to the uh area right where the 30- foot driveways coming off there was an area where there had been logging done and what have you does this applicant or one of the other companion companies have plans to do more development just so everybody knows turn over to Mr get Mr Glenn if you don't mind raise your right hand please do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board tonight's help you gu I do what's your name sir my name is Thomas alsson Tom how you sp your last name alfn sure so to answer Mr Simmons's question uh just just for the record your your relationship is that you're you're going to be the construction manager essentially and you're familiar with the site and the plans and everything else right relationship with the applicant I'm their property manager construction manager and farm manager okay just wanted to get that on the record we don't trust 30 something I'm not a licensed engineer I have a degree in civil engineering I'm not licensed you're not testifying to that we get it I'm sorry I interrupted you go ahead not a problem so to answer Mr Simmons's question the adjoining lot not this specific lot is um certified commercial Farm through the agricultural board on that property the applicant uh has plans to uh install through the aboard uh hydroponic garden for themselves um they also want to plant some trees beach trees apple trees so it is purely for farming which is uh certified commercial Farm through the agricultural Board of Sussex County there there there regarding uh Mr Simmons's question about future development things like that short of farming that is what's going on okay thank you uh uh I pointed out two things uh there's an existing deer fence on adjacent lot two which encroaches onto lot three we'd like to get that taken care of if we could I mean is that something that you know upon the sale of a home it could be relocated again this this applicant owns all three properties it's 110 acres I don't know if is that something that upon the sale of a home he has to relocate or does he just have to relocate it I would say relocate it put an easement in place whichever is more convenient for you okay I think an easement yeah that's fual Happ Y and then I did notice on the survey there was a deed overlap between Lots one and three if we could work on getting that corrected yeah I don't know if ow you can talk about that so we spoke with the surveyor who happens to work on our company Doug Doug digra he said one of the options we could do and would most likely do is a Quick Claim Deed uh from lot one to lot three to make to make that overlap in the favor of lot three that would fine with me the lot in question would not the area would not change that'd be fine with me you do that as part of the assuming you get an approval You' do that at that time Bill okay and then I pointed out under item e on the top of Page Three the survey map shows a path quote unquote of some description running through the applicant's property from lot one to Lot 12 what rights does the owner of Lot 12 have to cross the applicant's property none that we're aware of unless there's an unrecorded easement or license or something that he might have there's nothing in the title okay wanted to bring that one out with regards to storm drainage uh the applicant did provide some mitigation because of the additional impervious and Sparta's ordinance and we found that to be acceptable subject to the maintenance plan being prepared for the uh storm water mitigation uh with regards to the architectural plans is there going to be a generator for the facility uh it's not proposed at this time okay um would it make sense to just locate one wouldn't mean that you have to put it in otherwise you might have to make a separate application and they like wouldn't they Dave they I think the property next door to this had to come in for a generator Home of the client the applicant um has a 60kw we're we're very aware of that one yeah yeah so uh I mean it's not proposed at this time and uh if we do need that we'll come back to the board okay and the HVAC units that's proposed to be on the roof now correct okay uh soil erosion Cate control is needed or well and septic is being proposed uh with regards to running the utilities up the Electric telephone and cable um is there sufficient utilities coming up to the existing dwelling on tax lot to that the it's going to tap off those utilities that come over correct we're going to work with jcpnl currently there's a Transformer on 403 Main Street which is the adjacent lot so we are going to work with jcpnl to see if that needs to be upgraded to a larger 300 KW or whatever that building is first we need the architecturals in order to figure out the load that we need and then we can apply to jcpnl but the service is under the railroad it's up on the property it's a matter of transforming uh transform and the applicant's going to take care of the cost of all that okay this was all actually contemplated in the original development I guess it was like 15 years ago there there's a license agreement that the property owner has uh with the railroad where there's conduit that's run underneath the railroad and the and the railroad has has given the owner approval for one home on each of the three lots so there's extra room in the conduit if it's needed to run additional util an additional six conduit buried under the railroad in case of future utilities that's already in place okay good and as far as the access Drive goes uh the one thing Mr dun mentioned that there was existing easements I'm I just want to make sure it's clear for the record on sheet one and two under access easement notes it says Uh there's no Public Road Frontage from the property in question access to lot three block 2802 is from Route 517 through Lots one and two and block 28001 lot 38 and block 50,000 and lot two and block 282 access easement shall be set up as a condition of any approval I guess the question I've got is are there easements now or you've got to make more easements there there are easements now I have to revisit them and make sure this property is a beneficiary of the existing easement we may need to add them as another additional beneficiary that that runs up from the road so not covered it proper owners it'll be worked on correct you'll do that you're going to have to do that sooner rather than later bill okay okay and again uh as Mr Dunn pointed out maintenance if I understood him correctly this house on proposed or lot three would be the furthest away so they'd be responsible for their own maintenance of the whole driveway yeah I mean uh right now I believe the way the original easement was written that the property owner of 403 would maintain M that road and I believe the is everybody else around would have the right to maintain it as well oh so I I probably misspoke I said the the proposed the lot for the proposed dwelling would be responsible but actually it's to yeah the existing home currently has the obligation to maintain that access okay did we have a copy of that Dave because usually usually it is as as Jason said usually it's the last lot is responsible and whatever you all work out with everybody down in front I guess because there wasn't a home on it that there's nothing that exists um is it all the same entity again yeah correct all three properties 110 acres owned by the same entity three entities owned by the same bill bill why don't you just make sense Dave why isn't Bill put together just some kind of a maintenance to one page as to who's responsible how it's going to work and just do it by lot and block because that'll accomplish what I think and I think that should be a condition of us to review it not that it doesn't a summary of how it's going to work no just do it put put get let's get them all in place that way you don't have to worry about it depart building department has everything you have everything too and you know you got to watch what happened on the first application okay I don't know uh there's a construction can you repeat that for the potential condition Mike's keeping track of that with myself um we want to word that when we get to the uh they'll they'll provide a drive driveway maintenance agreement I'm sorry Mike I should I wasn't thinking about you buddy they provide a driveway maintenance agreement that sets forth uh that this applicant will be responsible for maintaining the drive in for snow removal and other purposes I think it really gets to be that simple Mike thank you Glenn and under construction details we just need ultimately if there's a retaining wall proposed just need a detail of the wall uh and under miscellaneous uh there's a listing of the various approvals I believe are going to be needed at a minimum and I recommend as usual and as built be prepared to verify the setbacks and what have you on the facility after it's constructed if the board so chooses to approve it and that's my report Mr chairman thank you David yes sir just ask can you have any uh more presentation from your professionals we uh agree to all the conditions suggested by your your engineer um I don't have any other direct testimony I would turn it over the board for any questions all right thank you we'll open it to the board now Marissa John FY no questions Rich laua uh yeah I have I have several questions I just I'm confused about some things and hopefully we can clarify it more H part of it is is what the definition of this is if it's a a residence with a basketball court or a training facility or a uh a camp um I look at the plans and well let's start with Dave's first question was the HVAC system you say you now say you're going to put them all up on the roof does that mean you're going to raise the elevation of the building absolutely not if you look at the El put you're going to put them under the roof yeah you just have the cond outside the actual heating and air conditioning unit that's going to be a trust system in that Peak the roof so we can hide everything in there and the air conditioners will be the condensers will be where on the roof or on the ground on the roof on the back side you'll never see them you rely won't hear them so if it's the back side I can keep them right in this area and they'll never break the height of the roof okay that's one way there uh second question with that is what's the fuel source for the heating system propane propane under propane where are you going to put the the propane tank under the ground that's not shown again there's a limited area where you can put things on the site you're not showing where where where proposed and I got assume you're putting in a pretty good size propane tank so you got the well in the front you got the septic system you got the storm management system in the front of the house and there's not much place else you can put a thousand gallon tank or more I mean uh I don't know if this survey reflects that the property grade comes down this way you can set a tank 300 ft away you also have to be able to get access to it to fill it no understood I mean they have hoses and stuff but yes correct that's a long way to take a hose that's all it should be shown we could do a condition on that to show the propane tanks underground and within the proper separation distance where they need to be okay again I look at this and um on the the debating whether this is a residence with a private basketball court or a basketball uh training facility or practice facility that has some amenities some home amenities but I I look at the the architectural plans and maybe the architect architect and clarify these let's start at the top floor okay on the top floor you show two bedrooms correct one the master bedroom has a or the big bedroom room has a bathroom with a shower and a bathtub in it and the other bathroom is in the hallway there neither bedroom has a closet I don't know how many applicants have come before saying they have a a septic system it's designed for a three-bedroom house but there's a fourth room up there they says it's not a bedroom because there's no Closet in it there's no Closet in these bedrooms if this is a house if this is a residence that's you know the definition of residence you got to put your clothes somewhere okay it's not shown that it's shown as a desk b a table and uh a couch with a TV Center or something like that it's just not shown that's what I'm saying it's a dedicated closet that you need to be if it's really a residence the second thing is okay the second thing is I don't see any laundry room I don't see any laundry facilities and again you're talking about basketball players okay I played basketball in college not that well but I did play basketball players tend to get sweaty and stinky in a lot of dirty clothes there's no no toilet facilities in there no uh rather laundry facilities you go if you go to the excuse me laundry facil well let's talk about the gym area on the middle level the second level you're showing a steam room uh how you going to generate the steam where where is the where's the steam generator going to be located steam generator be small units probably 18 by 18 fored but is a wet area okay whenever I was in an area where you had a steam room it was usually in an area that was generally adjacent to a locker room or a shower okay the shower is upstairs there's no shower facilities on this level so you're taking people coming out of a steam room soaking wet have to go upstairs to take a shower it just does it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me the way it's the way it's laid out like that as again if this is a house it's your house you could live however you want to live in your house to me that doesn't make much sense you have a massage therapy area with two uh hydrotherapy pool uh baths are those heated are those chilled if you yet to be deter well again if they're chilled where do you get the ice from there's no place here I don't see any place to to store ice okay I'm saying just from a practicality well whether they chilled water or whatever but again where does it get to do that um you have a restroom on this level you have no restroom down on the basement on the ground level where the basketball players are here again a lot of basketball players they get hot and sweaty and look at this you keep saying this is for this client's own no it's not for this client's use to own I part of a I have a problem with is that it's a full-size basketball court with a 9 foot aisle all around it you're going to have more than one basketball he's going to be playing in this gym by himself you have room for five cars you go down to the basement the ground level and you have a garage that has a 9 foot by 9t garage door which tells me you can get a mini bus in there you could bring players in there you're going to be playing basketball in you I have no problem what you're doing I'm just want to make you know it all doesn't fit to this being a residence with a basketball backboard okay it's more than that and I just want it to be classified in the right category because part of my concern is you've designed a septic system is it a septic system for a two-bedroom residence or is it a septic system for two-bedroom residence with a steam room with massage therapies and with a bunch of swe basketball players that don't have a bathroom on their ground level either they have to go to the second floor or back up to the third floor to take a shower I it just it all doesn't it's confusing okay and I think that has to be clarified yes yes okay um lastly if it is a training facility or practice facility of some sort and you're going to have people there playing full court basketball okay course you have plenty of room to bring in basketball players is it classified as a residence in terms of the building code as opposed to an assembly area which is a different code in the building and then there the things such as the septic system have to be designed for an assembly area I I just I can tell you I did do the research on it it's got to stay under a certain Square Footers to do that and it does it's 10,000 footy but you could have I mean I could I could I could call this very very simply I could call this a and again I I I recognize who the owner may or may not be but is a corporation that's designed I could look at this as a a basketball camp to bring high school kids in to play I you know I'm not saying it is or it isn't but that's possible okay and we want we want to approve this for what it proper use is or its possible use is and once it's approved it's it just doesn't look to me like a simple two-bedroom residence and I I'm just wondering if we're we're categorizing it properly Len can you um give any insight to what rich is speaking about well I think it's pretty interesting because this issue has come up I'm not getting choked up on your application I swear this sorry this has come up on other applications when other people wanted to do things not unlike what rich is raising and I was sitting here thinking you know you got your footprint or you got what 10,000 11,000 square ft of stuff and um there are some Engineers sitting on this board and there are some really talented people sitting up here and I'm wondering whether um your client or the the group might want to reconfigure this slightly so it doesn't just walk talk and Quack primarily more in this way it's not to say and Mr laa is correct you you have this application you're allowed to do certain things and you can put big hobby shops and other things in he's just raising the issue of uh maybe it would make a little bit of sense to make it look a little bit or make it function a little bit more like a residential use with a full gym attached to it I'm not an architect but I think that's where you're going isn't it well it is and it isn't because I I think in the RR Zone you can have schools or churches yes and it could be a a uh a basketball camp it could be called okay if you want to use it potentially in the future right but they're not applying for that tonight and the issues that you're raising but that also that also get gets you into what building code category it falls in right and and we want to make sure that that hits it too so I don't know whether whether the issues that are being raised are something you can kind of scratch your head to come back with something and I'm not necessarily even let's see how the rest of the board does it but the actual relief that they're seeking from the board is pretty di Minimus uh because it's for you know access for a road and some setback requirements uh but you still have some of the issues that rich rich is Raising so you want to respond or you want to scratch your head a little bit first I I'm happy to respond so I can appreciate the Bo's Optics like I'm sure this is one the first time somebody wants to put something of this magnitude in their single family residence um this specific applicant is one of the best basketball players in the world and he needs this to train currently he has to travel to all sorts of different areas in order to book different times be away from his family because he can't train at his home this is a place for him to go it's a place for him to train it's a private use that is all I can appreciate the concern with the magnitude of this this is what this client needs this is a single family residence whether we need to add a laundry room you know this is pretty schematic at this point before we go spend an exorbitant amount of money on the engineering that goes behind something like this and trust me this is nowhere near the the the the minor tweaks of the closet whether it's built in whether it's not built in this is a private residence single family we're going for a couple setback variances he is one of the best basketball players in the world he needs this with his cold therapy and his trainers and his massage and all these things so he can be near his family but also get away from that when he needs to train at the highest level so that is what this applicant is but then sir it all comes down to the uh variance and what Mr larua was saying so I just hopefully you'll take into consideration what he just brought up absolutely correct this this is uh there's going to be tweaks that will fit a single family residence whether it's a laundry room or a toilet on the first floor or you know closets little silly things like that yeah the interior finishes those are all going to be worked out before we go spend a lot of money on the architecture we wanted to bring it to the board um this is a very unique situation um and this is what the a needs in order to continue the success in his profession I have a home office I go in my 12 X1 12 office I have a computer this is his computer and I don't I don't disagree with you I don't have any problem with that my only concern is that is it being built under the building code for a residence or the building code for training facility a resident single family res but that's okay that's part of that's part of my concern is that the what happens sing only for certain tyr typically this because of the has to be that shifts the construction classification soon as that happens I have to follow construction for that's I think I think talking to somebody who knows it like the back of his hand not me and and again the part of it is the reflection on what does that do in terms of the septic system do that for the type of things they're putting in here it's not just a two-bedroom house that you're going to build design a septic system for does a septic system have to be bigger or different I don't know I think one of the things that I mentioned in on the last page my report was the various agencies that they've got to get approval from and I think it's going to be up there were no plans provided for the septic system detailed drawings uh but we did list the county health department for the well and the septic and I think they're going to have to make their case as far as the gallonage produced by what their actual use is going to be and sell the county health department on that so that would be covered that's that's my concern that'll be covered by the County Health Department okay okay Rich any other questions no go ahead go ahead Marissa for the other board members please U Michael leandi no questions for me thanks Richard robacker no questions mark Scott hi um when you drive up the driveway in that in that area is being uh that that's that's going to be that's farmed on the left it's a certified commercial Farm through the Sussex County Agricultural board yes okay and that's on is that on lot two or is that on and is the same owner on lot four I'm not super familiar because it's all different lot maybe Jason could help out on that it's on so so the certified commercial Farm is with the existing residential if that helps clarify all within lot two if that's where the existing home is cuz two 3 1 um yeah so it's all with the existing single family residential I the same concern that rich had about the two-bedroom septic it you know we have a viewing area we have multiple cars we can park here and it just seems like uh a two-bedroom SE it's not going to be ample but I I hear you saying this is just for this one person thank you um the scope of the facility can is there a way that we can limit the traffic or because this just this traffic is obviously going to disturb the people at at the entrance right that the homes that have the easement it's a single family residential structure I'm not so sure that you can limit it because you could limit it so that it's no commercial purposes and the like but if I decide that I'm going to have X number of people coming to my house I don't know that if it's single family and they're not imposing upon the neighbors or anything not so sure that you can nor do I think you should I think it is what it is uh there are certain inherent limitations Mr dyra might be able to provide and I'm not spotting though might be able to provide some information on how the septic would work maybe Jason knows this too I I I don't know but you know the house is what it is just as any one of your houses are what they are Glenn just excuse me probably I agree with Rich and what Mark's saying the pro the applicants probably going to have to come back with all the notations that Rich has brought up on the plans before we even get to a vote tonight just to let them know that's how I feel go ahead Mr dyra okay Owen do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board tonight help you God I did you're Owen dyren your licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey your license is valid as of tonight and you appeared here many many times is that all accurate and you would have said it the same way except a little slower than what I just did right okay um the septic we did soil tests on on the site we had good soil tests for installing a septic um we will have to go through the health department with regard to sizing that septic and we'll go through that process um be treated as a two-bedroom single family home which is what it is just like uh some people have a pool in their house this guy has a basketball court in his house there's um it's uh not a commercial use so I believe it will just be treated as a two-bedroom hole for septic purposes all right thank you Owen I think Marissa Landon was the last board member uh yes L teneri I have no questions at this time and then Mr Dunn I had a question when you were covering some issues that won't occur on the site do you remember what those uh issues were because I was mentioning potential conditions on those issues that you said won't occur when you were giv your testimony you you covered a few from no no tournaments right yeah I mean it's going to be used for private purp purposes so you can put that in the records it's for private not what other ones Mr dun that was pretty much the bottom line it wouldn't be used for commercial purposes for spectator games or anything like that got those Mike yeah yep thank you all right thank you Mr D yes so if we were to put that it's no commercial purposes that goes with the land right yes sir yes sir thank you actually goes with the zoning but calling it out now Mark is a good thing too and then two uh Mr I think you mentioned future development short of farming gentleman you had mentioned I I just mentioned that not there was a question brought up by Mr Simmons about the clearing the clearing is the certified commercial farm and there is there are plans to install hydroponic indoor gardens and things with the agricultural board's approval and some Orchards and some cows and chickens and but that is what specifically is intended for the existing home at 403 Main Street right thank you any other questions from the board if not I'll open it to the public can I can I ask a question I'm kind of public here so regarding your comments earlier about we might have to come back because is it the interior renderings you want to be more interior rendered I'm not sure I quite understand where we fell short to limit this application for the variants on setbacks we'll have our expert here Rich say even doesn't like to be called an expert he is like whether I add a laundry room if the guy doesn't want a laundry room in this house is that required by a single family residential thing like if he wants to no I'm just I'm just saying from a practical standpoint but that that should be the hold on from a from a practical standpoint if you're calling it a residence and you got people playing basketball and you got people training you got the uh pelaton machines and you got the you know uh running things uh you got you got baths and you got steam room you got to you're going to generate dirty clothes okay and you're going to generate a lot of sweaty people and you're going to have uh just from a practical standpoint that the space is is allocated properly for that that did you have it shown somewhere you have enough okay um I don't even know about the code issue in terms of of egress all the egress is down the stairwell through the one door okay if you have a car fire in the garage I don't know if that's going to cause any problems but you need a second means of egress I don't know if the windows are operable if they have to be operable all of them are operable but if you're on the second floor or the third floor you can't go out a window because you got at least a 4ft or a 7 foot drop with the slope good next to that unit I don't know what the code issues are that have to be addressed I think some of these just have to be clarified I am concerned that when you locate a uh uh when you size and locate a propane tank where you going to put it in the front yard there because that's the only place you can put it in all practicality uh to service it what what does that do with the location of the Well versus the location of the storm the storm drainage M mitigation and the septic uh sizing all this stuff has to go to you have a you have a very cramped site on the side of the Hill that you're building into and I just think it might affect with the final layout the site plan is when you size some of this stuff just order of magnitude size and I think if you clarify that it'll find it'll finalize the site plan better just take his comments into consideration more detailed plans what he's speaking about and we'll have a a better idea if you don't mind yeah not at all not problem okay miss Ashen too yeah that's fine thank you yeah you okay no other questions from the board if not I'll open it to the public anyone in public have questions and comments please come forward state your name and address to our board secretary please Frank Colter uh 14 Hawthorne Lake Road Frank how do you speak your last name c l t r Frank raise your right hand please you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings be the board tonight up you got I do so first off we're we're actually not here to oppose a single family residence so I think you guys can all have it ease at that but um we obviously are a large adjoining property uh property owner um and just reviewing the plans there was a couple things that caused us concern and some pause for confirmation a lot of which is what uh the board has already brought up and um you know the first was that you know person can certainly buy as much property as they want and we just happened to notice that four of the eight property owners were all located in the same same address Our concern is that it it was actually going to be a single family residence and that there wasn't any kind of future plan to develop into a camp a stadium things of that nature um you know that we we just wanted some kind of confirmation or condition um you know back in the '89 90 uh PA Park Club was uh actually uh a very big proponent of saving Sparta mountain and so we have a a very deep love for the area and we want to keep it that way um so there was just some con and you know just some confirmation and affirmation to that respect and then also um as you brought up just the configuration of the home doesn't look like a home to us it looked like it could be a a a u a meeting room uh a u a camp so to speak so we we just didn't to us it didn't set sit the same as to the board all right thank you thank you Frank anyone else from the public please see no one else from the public close back to the uh public hearing so Mr ason I guess you've made notes of all this tonight yeah let me just I think you'd like to see on the survey because it's not really a site plan but we have survey the the proposed area for the well that the well is shown I'm just saying propane tank and then on the architecture you said closets bathroom on the first floor and laundry that did I get everything is that what you're asking for and if there's other things that have to comply with where you're kicked into which building code if there's egress issues or you you know you have a garage with five cars in it do you need some sort of Fire Protection in there I don't know uh but that won't show on the set of plans though that's for the building department and yes it's got to be a rated exposure and everything that okay with the erress because it's only one entrance in and out I think Dave had a question on the elevator that was just for the Emergency generator a little house electric elevator I assume not a hydraulic elevator or anything is and then excuse me Frank you brought up a point you were afraid it might turn into something I didn't catch it yes you were mentioning something that you were afraid it might turn into something else we were just concerned that that perhaps there was some underlying you we noticed that they they actually own four of the eight properties and we our concern was that they were there would may be some future plan to consolidate them and turn this into a Rec Center or a a a a camp or something of that nature we're certainly not opposed to a single family respond to that rather than even putting Counsel on the spot and that is um the certainly for granting the variances and for as the application came before it could say no but the ordinance I don't believe in looking at Dave I can't remember whether the zone that this is in allows camps as a principal use or not in the R zone you can have have a church I mean it's it's almost like saying I want to build I want to build a cathedral with a a rectory at the back of it okay maybe a your favorite 30 Persian is coming to church you know that kind of thing would never approve but it's school never get that approval to go pick the crossing approve for but but you know a school or a training facility is permitted and our and our point was if that is what it's going to be we just want to know about it we're not necessarily opposed to it we just we just want to know that that is absolutely not the uh applicant's intention he wants to be closer to his family he has kids he has a wife this is a way for him to walk 60 ft next door train during peak season and go to sleep and have peace and quiet with the people that support him throughout the season that is the intention it is a single family home it's going to be for his personal use private use it's like you said it's in a RR Zone I guess you can have a camp that is absolutely not the intention uh they they enjoy their privacy they want their privacy that's where they're at all right thank you Frank thank you sir and we welcome him as a neighbor uh any other questions from the board and then uh Glenn I guess we c i I mean I think did she cover you with John I'm sorry she did I thought maybe um I mean it seems like we just have some some minor uh updates to the plan set right like we have to maybe show the propane tank or maybe a bathroom it could be a roll around washing or drying machine you could put on any floor if you want I mean that's the stuff um I think would it be possible to possibly what what could rather than hold this up a whole another month what you could do is authorize me to prepare a favorable form of resolution for your consideration at the next meeting because they're only asking for ancillary SE variant relief the stuff that you all are talking about certainly could be a condition of the approval but what I'm suggesting is that by authorizing me to prepare a favorable form Council goes home and says okay we just got to do the stuff with our architect with Mr Dyer's office and Mr dun's office and they can come back at your next meeting I'll have a draft resolution ready for your consideration they'll do the additional nits and Nets hopefully they'll get some stuff to Dave so Dave can comment on them uh and then if you find that everything is in order you can vote on the resol olution that night rather than putting it off for a whole another 30 days and that's that's the way we used to proceed in some instances too and you know again I'm not saying that the questions and the comment were inappropriate because I don't think they were because we have to be careful about whether it's a commercial and and you certainly gave great testimony as to why you do it this way I mean how many houses do you get built that are all Ste trust and and all the stuff that they're doing here so my thought is that at least would put some time back in it doesn't take any of the power away from you as the board in making the decision it just tells the applicant get the stuff get it in make it walk talk and Quack Like a single family residential use with a large Recreation room on the back I don't know whether you'd be in favor of that but that would be my recommendation let me ask the rest of the members Glenn how uh Landon how do you feel about that I'm okay with that Mark I'm okay with that rich we're okay Mike all good yeah Rich okay John I know you are thumbs up okay so then we'll um make a motion yeah Mr chairman I'll make a somebody say something no okay I'll make a motion to have the board attorney draft a resolution approving application uh 0524 for Main Street Creations LLC block 28002 lot 3 Seeking C variances for a front yard setback of 0t where 75 ft is required that I believe is existing nonconforming side yard setback of 30 ft where 50 ft is required a total Sid side yard setback of 68.3 feet where 100 ft is required uh minimum lot Frontage of 0 feet where 250 ft is required also existing non-conforming and a minimum lot width of 47.0 4 feet where 250 ft is required additionally um existing nonconforming we've got some conditions going to do my best a lot of stuff was flying around here but um execution of a quick claim deed for overlap between Lots one and three in favor of lot three uh condition of creating an easement for the existing deer fence uh verification of other existing easements Being for the Benefit of lot three uh creation of a driveway maintenance agreement that sets forth that the applicant will be responsible for snow remover removal excuse me and other applicable purposes uh the the facility is going to be used for private purposes only no commercial uses um adherence to all stipulations laid out in the board Engineers report and then um some additional commentary to clean up the plans we're going to show the location of the the propane tanks that support support the heating systems and uh revise the plan as as required to locate perhaps bedroom closets and laundry facilities if the applicant so chooses to have them um and just obviously adherence to any kind of build buing codes and you know we'll go through the process of course with the with the um construction official in town through the permitting process as well did I grab everything that everybody mentioned I think okay an adherence to everything in David Simmons report yes Mike and has build plans Etc blah blah blah right I do do we have a second good any discussion so what that's doing I'm sorry Rich go ahead no my my only concern is if if for some reason they got to shift the house a little because of the site conditions being building into the hill where you wind up with a propane tank and the you know all the other things does that change any of the variances that they're requesting the answer is it might but what you're doing is you're keeping it open you're granting them you're granting an approval you're granting the authorization to prepare a an app approving resolution it's not a final vote because if it does shift the house over four more feet or something else and it triggers another triggers a different variance the board can deal with that at the next hearing so essentially what you doing is you're carrying this as the chairman originally was heading towards but you're you're saying let's at least have the paperwork in front of us so if we want if they've done everything that we think they have to do we can vote on it that night which is what we would be doing in the regular course of business anyway so you're not my point is you're not giving anything away no I'm not giving no I don't mean you I mean the rest of changing numbers on the this this way this way you all can do it get it in so Davey has a chance to look and anybody else at the on the board all right thank you Glenn any other comments from the board I just had a quick question Glen so 50 60 years from now we're we're all gone and this property is being sold this property is being sold and these we're for them for the camp to suddenly pop up there right that's going to be a whole new use variance a whole new zoning thing right y so so there's safeguards for these people's descendants right it could it could change from somebody who apparently likes to play basketball to to a profession to a volleyball or or a pickle ball court or a swimming pool for an Olympic swimmer that moves into town you know what I mean it's I all right thank you John any other comments not Marissa please uh please call the role Marissa John pck yes Richard larua yes Michael leandi Yes Richard Rober yes Mark Scott yes L tary yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes thank you Marissa okay gentlemen thank you right so for the record the applicate when's the next meeting the 14th of August 14th yes so for the record the application is being carried to August 14th no further public notice being required all right good night anyone else in the public have any comments on issues not on the agenda tonight seeing no one else in the public having comments or issues the board entertain a motion to adjourn so Mo second please second thank you all in favor thank you people put tennis cours down thank you very much thanks for catch the same things there but I think you had two or three more