##VIDEO ID:gTUbmOqDF6Y## also no new business or testimony will be conducted after 9:30 p.m. and the meeting will adjourn at 10 p.m. sharp Advocate notice of this meeting was provided in the New Jersey Harold it was also posted on the sparta Township website and its bulletin board in accordance all provisions of the open public meetings act it's a practice of this board to salute the flag please rise and join us I pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America to the Republic for which it stands Nation Under indivisible indivisible and justice for all also ask for a moment of silence in memory of the 911 oh we did that yesterday okay thank you everyone I'll go over the agenda for tonight what uh we will'll have the board will have approval of minutes from March and August we'll have three resolutions to be memorialized and for the public hearing we have the susus county charter school for a d variant the door do uh to Anderson application that will be carried with no further notice Marissa I guess to the October 9th meeting 20 oober 9th yes thank you and the Eric Fraser and Ellen Stewart application for C variants and the perona reality corporation that will also be carried with no further notice to the October 9th 2024 uh meeting at 7 p.m. after all the applications are heard I'll open the hearing to the public for matters not on the agenda tonight and then we'll adjourn after that Marissa please call the role John FY presid Michael jik here Rich laua here Richard robacker here Mark Scott here Lennon teneri here chairman Kenneth Lowry here Elise hubard here we have approval of minutes March 13 2024 the chair will entertain a motion make the motion do I have a second second any discussion Marissa please call the rooll Michael jifi Yes Richard larua yes Richard robacker yes Mark Scott yes lenet tenir yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes we also have minutes from the August 14 2024 meeting to be approved chairl entertain a motion moved second please second any discussion Marissa please call the rooll John finky yes Michael jic Yes Richard larua yes Richard robacker yes is an error I think there's an error on the last page on two roll votes I am not listed as voting you you were here and you're not listed as voting correct and which where what which part of it which on the August 14th one correct this is for the uh August 14th one were the uh approval of approve the application for Michael De roers L 42 L 62 so you were here and you voted for that Mercy can you check the sheet there that you have I have it right here so he's on there yeah oh all right but it's not on the minutes I don't want to be yeah pain in the ne but it ain't there oh I see your name is on there but it doesn't say yes next do oh I I apologize okay I'll the we'll make Amendment for that rich thanks for touching that that's fine okay good thank you yes minor DET Richard rocker yes L tener yes chairman kenth Larry yes we have three resolutions to be moralized the first one was application 6-24 Jason Golder decided on 81424 for C variant release the chair will entertain a motion no move second please second any discussion on the resolution Marissa please call the role John FY yes Michael jik Yes Richard larua yes Richard robacker yes LAN yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes next one is applications 7-24 Jason Golder also decided on 81424 perceive variance relief the chair entertain a motion still move second please second any discussion Marissa please call the rooll John FY yes Michael jifi Yes Richard larua yes Richard robacker yes L tener yes yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes the last one is application 1024 Michael De Roes SED on 81424 Force irings relief the chair entertain a motion so move second please second any discussion Marissa please call the role John pinky yes Michael jifi Yes Richard larua I didn't I didn't participate sorry yes sorry about that Richard robacker yes L taneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes okay and on the public hearing the first application is 12-24 suss County charter school for D variant please come forward I don't no and everyone applicants and board members please speak clearly and loud enough for a board secretary to pick up everyone she's been having difficulties we haven't been speaking loud enough so just keep that in mind and just for the format after you present your application we'll open it to our professionals and then the board members with questions and comments and then we'll open it to the public after that yes Mr chairman my name is Richard Valente of the law firm of Morris Downey and shared on behalf of the applicant to s c County charter school for technology and just just one thing Mr Valen I was going to ask our attorney Elise because Rich you had a question about the reason for Dev variance versus non devarian maybe there asking for an electronic sign but it's not a u a a moving sign it's one that can be changed electronically as I understand it that is correct and because it's it's it's in fact a stationary fix sign it's just that the method of changing it is not going out there changing letters or repainting it it's just electronically changing it and it'll be eliminated and it's eliminated right and does that require a Dev variance because it's electronic that's an interesting question actually Corey and I spoke about this at length today um our interpretation and and this was came to us this way is that according to uh section 18-4 21 that's the c1h regulations um there is a requirement for you're allowed to have an accessory use customarily incidental to the above permitted uses which arguably is a sign but under the conditional uses um it needs to be in conformance with historic preservation and then the historic preservation language states that that it needs to be consistent with uh visually related to uh the structures uh within the historic period And so my understanding is that the variance is triggered by the fact that it's a digital sign in front of old schoolhouse buildings and appearance otherwise I would think that this is actually not a d variance and would be just because it's the digital sign that's our interpretation of of the ordinance same of that Corey and that and that's and that's what I agree to because if you're looking under that section of the code for the uh the The c1h Zone it basically you know has a whole section under under there that talks about uh condition required conditions of being in that historic preservation Zone and it specifically refers to 18 4.2 s which I think it's 2 R technically I think it's a section which under that section it talks about what you have to do architecturally and a specifically says a sign has to be in line with the historic nature of the structures on that property so a digital sign even though it's not moving is not in line it's not um it's um um in my opinion it's not historic you know in line with the historic significance of the structures on that property all right thank you Cory and at Le good Mr Valente you know this of course there's a d variance you'll need five affirmative votes and if it is pass the variance is tied to the land in perpetuity as you know correct I will say for the record that I also reached out to uh uh Mr Collins the planning board attorney because originally I was try as always trying to avoid a de variant but um he instructed me that I should go part of the zoning board for it as well in support of Miss Hubbert and Mr stoner's statements and the lady uh her name because we'll have to swear um her in leis would you qualify her to if you don't mind can you praise eyes just you swear the testimony about to given this matter shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth can you state your name spell your last name for the record and provide your address business address Norine n o r n Lazar l a z r i UK and the school address is 385 North Church Road Sparta the blue building and I'm the superintendent thank you that was my next question right how can we help you um well we'd like to get an electronic sign for the in front of the school yeah I give a breach breach some of our presentation I'll just take to minut so again this request is limited to permission to seek a free-standing digital sign on the property the property is actually located on Route 94 right on the Hardon border it's it's it's less than a tenth of a mile to the Hardon border only a couple of lots from it the charter school who folks may not know is a Public School of Choice what does that mean number one it's a public school number two it's tuition free uh number three uh it is available to all students within the area and in fact there are only two Charter Schools considered rural SC charter schools in all of the state of New Jersey students are are are are are uh admitted to the school on a first come first serve basis uh the and is intended to be a choice School in other words a public school where you have the option of attending but not required to attend it's it its purpose is to provide alternate forms of education for children and opportunities for families to obtain a different type of education uh the proposed sign is similar to digital signs that are in the township already for example rev Brown has a digital sign the uh Sparta Medical School has a digital sign on the wall uh Sussex Tech has a has a digital sign the firehouse right next to part of dairy has a digital sign uh endover Township Municipal Building endover Township school on Newton SP Road of digital signs so there's this proliferation of these digital signs and they serve very valuable purposes which Our Testimony will get into later as part of this approval we wanted to mention two critical things to the board number one we are open and receptive to having Community announcements including sparting Township announcements regarding emergencies community events also to appear on the digital sign number two um this the sign itself uh we are willing to talk walk with the burrow in terms of customizing the sign to fit better into the historic district and I want to make that clear ahead of time because uh we understand that's really part of the basis for the use variant and use parents can attach conditions to it so what we've presented to you this evening is the the physical features of the sign but I want to stress again we're willing to work with you with respect to uh stylizing it if you will with respect to having it fit in uh we have Mr John here this evening as our professional planner he will testify with respect to the special reasons inherently beneficial use of the school itself I appreciate your time I'll shut up and go now right for our Witnesses okay Mr go ahead I'm sorry spart resid SP I apologize one thank you for M Sparta residents get first priority which will cover in your testimony for admission yes okay yes in other words if a Spart a resident asked to come in they're going to get First Choice first chance ahead of any other applicants noren uh where is the school located up 385 North Church Road how close is the school to the hardest border approximately two lots two to three lots and you heard my description of what a a a charter school is was it accurate yes we're a public school a lot of people think we're not a public school but we're a public school of choice and um what grade levels do you serve sixth seventh and eighth grade and how does a a student apply to the school uh we have an online and you can come get a physical application but it is just asking for your name address what uh email address what grade you're going into very basic information and we accept everyone on a first come first uh first come first serve basis with the exception of uh Sparta residents and siblings of current students they get priority uh is there an entrance exam no in the past while you were serving as superintendent did the school get approval from the sporta planning board with respect to uh uh converting part of the school to a classroom yep 381 North Church Road um we rent that building and that is uh we have one classroom in there and we did come before the the board and got uh approval for that and there's currently a a freestanding sign on the property identifying the school if you if the LED sign or digital sign were approved would you have that sign taken down yes I'm going to show you uh three pictures of the school itself I'm going to mark them with the board's permission A1 A2 and A3 uh and ask you to confirm that these are in fact pictures of the school in its current condition I'm good okay that's accurate okay so we there these are three pictures of the school that were taken within uh with very recently and obviously you're familiar with the school M I actually have multiple copies of these pictures may I present them to the board and again I've marked these A1 A2 and A3 with a lease sure absolutely I just start here yeah want the ones you marked yeah can I would I be able to have the ones that you marked so I know which one's which do you have copies to keep for yourself I gave 14 copies so that when it circles around we'll bring them back to you that's yeah can you bring them up please thank you grab one and pass it down grab one [Music] pass that take one Mr vente what sign did you mention that would be taken down if the digital sign is approved uh there is a sign um to the left of the driveway uh that says CES County charter school for technology it it's a brown side with gold lettering um I think I have a separate picture of that sign I don't think I have 14 copies of it that's they're M [Laughter] [Music] oh thank you that's if they'll allow me to we actually have a photo on a phone I apologize I misplaced it just the location again that's all I need oh sure nor would you justbe yeah as you're exiting the parking lot it's on the right on the right exiting the parking lot as you leave like there's yeah thank you these are your copies if you'd like them can you just explain which is which so I can I mean I know which is which but A1 says charter school for technology is that view from church North Church Ro that's when so when you um you could take all those the one that has the that on the side that's like as you drive straight in as you approach the school that's that's okay Valente we that has no bearing in terms of um evidence and so forth on a variant and then E2 H2 has like a like a yeah like a banner sign on it what is that that's just on our gym like when you're in the parking lot it's just another direction that it and what's the last one A3 it's a slightly different looks like a different building so that's the building that we rent so that's the other address 3311 and that uh A3 which is the lighter blue building is the building uh uh the front of that building is where we were proposed to put the sign noren are you familiar with the buildings and homes in the immediate vicinity of the school yes I'm going to show you uh some photograph Mark A4 A5 and A6 for identification A4 is a picture of a brown brick home where is that home located in relationship to the school that's um kind of uh as you're leaving as you're coming out of the parking lot that's on the right that's to the right of the sign that we would take down and so it is this property is the the brown brick home is immediately adjacent to the school correct okay did you have that I'm going to pass these out now so this is A5 there okay A4 got and although this home is in a historic district you can see it doesn't appear to be a historic home does it y A5 for identification where that loc the next one is on the other side of the parking lot as you exit and that A5 depicts on that prop yeah it's actually right next to the one that we rent so on on the other side yes wish again and I'm going to show you another picture of A6 for identification do you recognize that home yes is that the home directly across the street from the school correct you get a copy that thank you I Gra what what are these pictures in the neighborhood yeah did you get a copy let me show you a picture that I marked seven for identification seven I know did you need this one sure are you familiar with with this property yes and is this the property that's behind the Downing Furniture building correct and that property is being used as a warehouse is that correct correct and and and this property is within three or four Lots the there's actually only one lot between that property and ours and that's also the owner of downings so there's like a little lot between us a little strip between the okay um why are you seeking permission to have an LED sign uh for the charter school well we'd like to use it for emergency announcements um we'd also like to um advertise community events and to help uh people learn about our school we did surveys and the number one way that people hear its word of mouth and number two was uh driving by and our sign and would you be willing to have the sign used to announce Sparta Township events yes with respect to any emergencies yes and as far as the physical location of the school because it's so close to Hardon as one enters Sparta do you feel that would be a good location to make an emergency announcements on behalf of the school and Sparta Township yes would the sign also be used to direct people to the address for the school's website yes and as far as announcements uh weather closures yes or lockdowns or emergency events at the school or the community yes and are you willing to um have the use of the sign uh adjusted so that it is not on when it's dark out yes and are you uh willing to limit the frequency of messages on the sign the duration of the messages on the sign yes and uh we'll have the testimony of Mr Palmer later who who represents the sign manufacturer but you're you you are uh willing also to um have the sign programmable so that it can be programmed remotely and instantaneously yes that is the testimony I have uh so far for noren perhaps the board has some questions we'll have the questions and comments after our professionals uh make their comments and reports and then to the board but you can continue with your other Witnesses this time I'll call Mr Palmer Mr Palmer come forward please least you're so kind of course raise your right hand you swear the testimony you're about to give in this matter shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth can you state your full name spell your last name for the record provide your address uh my home address or the work address business address uh my name is Joseph Palmer last name's p a l m r our business address for Casey sign company is 142 Conchester Highway in Aston Pennsylvania it's 1 19015 thank you sir Mr Valente and uh Joe would you describe for the board uh what your company does so um within the state of New Jersey we are the only Co-op approved uh State contracted sign vendor um we are a commercial sign and Awning company uh we make everything completely custom to what the customer would like and then obviously you know we can customize it to have whatever is needed on you know the township what they would allow as well um we've been in business for 40 years um you know we served the tri state area and um familyowned and operated the Clark family has um you know maintained the ownership over the last 25 years but um at the end of the day we are you know a small family-owned small business Commercial sign company approximately how many signs has KY signs uh been involved in locating in New Jersey over the past three years we've probably install I would say we've installed about 275 to 300 LEDs just in New Jersey alone and have you also been involved specifically KC signs with respect to school Signs in Franklin burrow right next this part of here yes we have okay how about Jefferson Township yes okay uh what what do you uh view as the advantages of digital LED signs for the property owner well one thing you're going to do is it's going um you know the big well the biggest thing is the sign's going to be used for emergency preparedness they can quickly update for sensitive information in the event of an emergency such as a fire or lockdown or other emergencies it may also be used to share important School announcements event schedules and safety information it can be used for community building by providing information regarding athletic events and Community announcements it can be used to identify the school Andor the Township's website so that the public can be aware of those website locations with respect to the size of the LED sign why is this sign proposed uh as as contained in the application before the board and Parton let me interrupt in your board packet you you actually should have a a drawing of the sign as well as a depiction of uh the lot on which the sign would be located but I'm sorry can you describe for the board why the sign has been designed with these Dimensions so espe espcially um where the school is located with um with the speed limit there having a size a sign of this size is more advantageous than saying cutting it in half um one the thing is it's it's really a safety issue because it allows a larger surface area is going to allow the letters that they have that are making the announcements that are showing the website stuff like that it's going to make it more legible more clear as if you if you were to cut the surface area in half letters are going to be smaller people are going to to be able to read it you'd almost have to come to a stop or be driving well under the speed limit what what is the speed limit on 40 it doesn't slow down for a school zone it doesn't drop to like 25 because it's the school zone okay go ahead sorry her to answer that verbally I don't know if she nodded her head she not if she would could just yes okay so it remains at 40 even though it's a school zone okay yeah 94 is the state highway thank you sorry to interrupt go ahead and just I mean just the overall programmability of the sign it allows the user more features as far as you know if if you're putting out Emergency Management messages if you're putting uh School announcements up you know you're going to want it to be as legible as possible for the people that are driving by and that's why we propose the size of the sign that it is I know that I have noticed so you mentioned the programmability of the sign what does that mean so these run on it's a cloud-based software it's a 5G cell modem so it's you don't have to have it hardwired there's not a WiFi connection so a lot of times you'll see with older signs when it's done by Wi-Fi if this anything any issues happen within the school with their internet the sign's going off now that it's on the cell modem it's not the the whole what the whole network could crash the sign's going to stay on but as far as the programmability because that has these cell modem the the cloud-based software features it allows you to control the sign from anywhere you are in the world I mean you could be you could be sitting could be sitting in a cafe in Australia pull out your smartphone your tablet your laptop and log right into the board you know the the days of having a designated desktop within the building where that sign is at is not needed so if if somebody wanted to change the sign they don't have to physically go to the school to do it they can do it remotely from anywhere they are can the uh brightness of the sign be regulated yes so within the programmability of what slides are going to show you can also control the brightness of it so 7500 knits is what 7500 nits is is 100% we'll call it that so what you can do is you can infinitely program out the schedule as for whether it's the brightness schedule what slides are showing everything can be programmed out infinitely so hypothetically during the daylight hours you could have it at that Max brightness but that say let's say 7:00 a.m. 7:00 p.m. it's 100% 7 p.m. to 10:00 it's down at 50% from 10: to 7 you could have it completely shut off and that's all done within the programming with respect to the height of the sign it been proposed to have a a height of 9.33 Ft where the ordinance requires uh limited to 8 ft is there a reason why that 9.33 ft is proposed yes just as far as with the with the sign setback especially driving along the road having it at the higher distance will allow you to to view it within your line of sight far as the physical location of the sign the sign will be 15 17 ft from the Route 94 right away and the ordinance requires 20 ft what limitations were on site that required it to be located at 17 ft there was um along with so with respect to the physical location of the sign I'm sorry um there was different utility lines that would be struck if because where the sign is if you go back 20 feet your B basically right next to the building there's going to be there's lines under there where if we were to dig down we're going to strike the lines that are in the site there and there's also a roof drain collection system within closer to the building yes and would the school be able to I'll use the phrase stylize the sign for example the top of the sign in order to make it uh more historical in some aspects yes so right now on the the renderings that you see this is called an ID header cabinet so that is a acrylic sign face it's a static sign that's illuminated with LED lighting what you could do is and it's very B you know it's it's just a big old rectangle up there as far and it would light up obviously but as far as a historical goes we could go to a different style on top and if need be I could provide um finished job pictures of numerous locations that we've done uh what we would recommend is what's called a hdu carve sign um you know it's very much it falls in it really Falls in line with a historical looking sign so that sign up there that's a carve sign right there um but as far as the shape goes the overall dimensions of it it can be tailored and customed to whatever would need to whatever the board would appro would say this is in order to move forward this is what we'd like to see as I said from the start everything we do is 100% custom we can we can tailor it to any way need be you could provide that to our board engineer and our yes Township right all right um we'll make that a condition to in the uh understand approval process uh Joe uh was also here to testify to some of the points that c Mr Stoner makes in his report should I do that now or wait for Mr stoner's report well I guess he could uh how do you feel Cory do it now I would it my comments are specifically related to the nits and the different things items he's talking about right now so think it's appropriate go ahead thank you Joe I'm going to review with you uh in particular page three of Mr stoner's report paragraph e and would you please go through those uh points in uh paragraph e Roman numeral I all the way down to romanel VII okay you just want me to read out what's in the read them out and then your response okay limit nighttime brightness level for an on premise electronic message Center EMC to3 foot candle above ambient light conditions at an appropriate distance so Dimensions that is something that can be as I said earlier we can program it can be programmed the brightness can be programmed to whatever is need to whatever will be allowed by the regulation U continue with that going to the next one I think the next the the next comment kind of relates to that limit sign brightness to 5,000 nits during daylight and 500 nits at night that's no problem that can be done because the nits themselves so the brightness of the sign and the brightness of the sign will relate into the foot candle that's actually being thrown you know from this sign correct yes so when you were stating the 5,000 during daytime 500 uh nits at night what what are the hours that You' be looking at U you know for this the facility Norine what will be your requirements as far as times a day when you the sign would actually be lit you have to come near the microphone so it can be all picked up it's a state requirement to have everything on recording so please come forward there well the answer is that I would do whatever the board would want me to do but ideally I would think it would be from 6:30 a.m. to 7 p.m. okay so the hours of the the bright the brighter nits is during the daylight hours when you need it to have it brighter but soon as at night when it' be night censored or night remote that once it gets into darker hours up to 700 p.m. it would be a reduced brightness correct yeah even shut it off well after after 7 p.m. he's talking about here in winter months it's going to get dark about 4:35 o' it's going to be a brighter situation up to 7:00 and at 7 o'cl you're staying at that point you would shut the the sign off yes until morning and it would turn on before you know until the it would adjust you it's from 7 p.m. to 6:30 a.m. it would not be on and then during the day time it is on it'll vary based on the the brightness of the day the nits will be you know the the brightness of the uh the LED lights will be adjusted based on the you know the uh the yeah the the the light the lightness yeah correct okay could yeah could we clarify this because early in your testimony you said it wasn't going to be on at night so I just want to hammer this down because we have conflicting testimony I guess I thought after seven was night so is the entire sign going to be off or because it's it's a two-part sign right there's a back lit of the school name and then there's an LED component with letters and number whatever you want FL shut down well that but I'm asking what are is the school going to do I understand everything could be shut off anything could be shut off just turn the power off right but what is the school going to do is my question at what time at 7 p.m. okay let's get back to the format to where you were going to finish the application and then Corey will go over that report instead of we're doing it now like you are going peace meal can I can I just follow up on that last part though can for emergency purposes I'm assuming it can be turned back on because emergencies don't end at seven I mean I don't know if the town the board would prefer that but I would imagine that something might happen after 7 o'cl well that's up to the board I mean it's I mean obviously it can be that that's a that's not my decision but I'm saying it can be shut down or it can be brought down to a level where it's not going to distract people driving by sure you can control the brightness so if if something were to happen in Sparta and there was an emergency how does that how do you get the sign back up on who do you who do you call how is it done what's the mechanism for you for the town us utilizing the sign during or off hours for emergencies there would be need to be some direct communication between the town Emergency Management or the town of uh whoever the town appoints and direct communication with Norine to say hey we need this emergency sign posted we understand that an emergency situation it would be worthwhile but only in those situations would Des sign be when it's start out be put on I mean just to step in literally if Marine fielded a call the sign she could have the sign up and running in less than five minutes okay all right thank you I work and I work closely with the sparta police department now right and the spart of schools so I'm always Mr Val you can finish presenting the whole application with your professional then we'll get back to Corey uh and that those other points there when you're completed all right yes next witness would be uh Jason Dunn all right Jason come forward please thank you Mr Palmer at least if you're so kind to qualify Jason who we know can you raise your right hand s the testimony you're about to give in this matter shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes can you state your full name spell your last name provide your address my name is Jason Dunn du NN business address is 11 Lawrence Road newon New Jersey go ahead Jason just for the record your license is I'm assuming you've been here before your license is current in a good standing yes sorry I'm not here all the time so I just want to make sure the board's familiar with you thank you Elise go ahead Jason so uh as as we talked about earlier this is considered a D1 variance um because it's not a permitted use in this uh historic Zone um I had a chance to look at uh Corey's letter and also so uh the ordinance I visited the site and has you know been talking with uh uh our team here so I understand what it is they're asking for and um where the location is and everything like that um this schools are listed as an inherently beneficial use uh in land use law and I think that's an important thing to keep in mind um although uh the sign becomes sort of part of the campus and part of the inherently beneficial use um it's my opinion that it's a feature that that promotes um the school's Mission and uh it augments the school's identity as we heard from the superintendent that's how people recognize and you know it gets in their minds like oh the I have a choice for my children at Charter School um and it improves obviously the messaging to the students and their families and uh as we talked about uh in certain C circumstances especially Sparta Township um so I think it's it's it's a an extension of the inherently beneficial use um it does have special reasons sufficient special reasons exist um to approve this in my opinion because it promotes several purposes of the land use law uh goals and objectives uh the first and most famous one is the road safety and general welfare uh provides a clear and concise venue to announce the school events Market to school and easily and quickly identify where this property is by the approaching drivers uh the it's particularly suited for this location um we heard about uh why it's important to be located where it is even though there's a setback uh uh deviation from your from your strict standard of your ordinance um and a size actual size and height deviation as well um but I think that the the main as Corey talked about earlier um the main focus and and why we're here for use variance is because it's a lighted sign in a historic district um but I'll get to that part of the ordinance momentarily uh the next goal of the land use law that I think is promoted is um the the installation of the sign is an appropriate and efficient way to use public funds by aligning the need and benefit for the sign with your land use policies um that means and the reason I include this one is because this is a public publicly funded school um so I think that this helps uh uphold that goal as well um it's my opinion that it also promotes a desirable visual environment because of its proper location and um the designated uh colors and architecture uh will complement the the the school buildings and also won't be a detriment to the neighborhood uh in the way the character of the historic area um and the sign design letter J of the goals is the sign design and location respects the historic designation of the Zone uh by fitting into the character of the neighborhood um we saw uh some pictures some evidence of the buildings that exist um you know I think we can see that these aren't uh registered historic districts uh seems like the architecture has a lot of gable roofs straight lines um and and I did a little research just as an aside to figure out why the township would maybe would have designated this as a historic area um and what I found was a couple things the ordinance itself like the second sentence in it um refers to the Lake Mohawk area and and Main Street uh so again I'm saying well if it's talking about those communities why is it talking about this so it turns out that this intersection in what's known as the Hamlet of Monroe uh in like the 1850s to late 1800s was a very active area um but as we can see today that's not the case the railroad is is no more um the the hotels and the the barkeeps aren't there um but I think it's it's valid that the township would want to try to respect this area as the history that it has um so moving along to that historic preservation uh section 18- 4.2 R uh there are there are SE several factors that it that would like us to address in the board to consider in their approval but I should know it's it's really uh more geared toward a building Improvement or a building demolition uh but I think this a sign is also again an extension of what what the campus is um so forgive me I'm reading some of this but it's kind of like what we're starting before where it's a uh a consideration and then a response right so the purpose your ordinance says the purpose of the provisions of this section is to set forth guidelines for evaluating the impact of uh of new construction and structures within the historic Zone districts and I'll paraphrase um conversion of existing buildings within the historic Zone shall be reviewed to determine the effect on the neighborhood and subject property um in regard to all applications for site plan the and variance the following factors shall be considered number a letter A the impact of the proposed change on the significance of the structure or neighborhood um I think we've heard that the sign will not change the significance or visibility of the existing buildings and I think it will have a negligible impact on the character of the neighborhood uh we are located in front of a existing building but it's not it's not blocking the features of that building the sign is not you know totally blocking the the the trim around the doors and the and the Gable features of the roof uh so I think it's appropriate uh the structures importance to the township and the extent to which its historical or architectural significance would be adversely affected to the detriment of the public interest as I said the existing buildings are not going to be modified and and as a result of the proposed sign and therefore the buildings they won't be impacted letter C the use of the structure involved um the use of the sign as we explained is to inform the public and the students and also for emergencies the extent to which the proposed action would adversely affect the Public's view of a landmark par or structure within the neighborhood or District um I I don't view any of the nearby uh buildings or or structures as a landmark for Sparta um so I don't think it would impact that and lastly e the impact proposed to change would it have an architectural sign would have an architectural significance and visual compatibility with the related structures um again we're trying to follow the design theme and Line work of the school buildings uh to either match it or work with the board and their engineer to come up with a design that's fitting uh for that for that portion of the road um so I think that the positive criteria can be met because we we address all these things we are as far as the negative criteria um it's my opinion that the the sign won't have an impact a negative impact on the public good um across the street there's you don't have home in the near vicinity of the street that the sign would be in uh we've heard that it's going to be shut off at night except for emergencies so I think that's uh it will have very little impact um and also the sign won't substantially impair the inent of the zoning ordinance um your your general sign says sign should be compatible with the surroundings expresses of the identity of the prop individual property and um orderly readable and appropriate and also non-distracting to all of which we heard the sign is is a is a safe venue to L up put messages out there yeah um so I don't think it would be a det detriment to your Zone plan either um I think it's also important for the board to note that this will only be for uh uh events and announcements having to do with the school on the premises except again as when Sparta Township needs it um it won't be used for advertising businesses or uh other off- premises things in other words it's not a billboard um that that's my testimony for the D D1 variants uh I don't know I had one other question for you uh Jason you were present when noren uh introduced to the board the pictures of the school itself the pictures of the house next door to the school which is the brick house that's before the board the pictures of the uh house uh next to that house which is a which has a garage on it and then the picture of the warehouse that is loc all those properties are in the historic district is that correct yes um and are those properties historical in nature I mean it's it's my opinion that they are not uh for instance the warehouse is made of sheet metal um that's certainly not historic materials or or significant architectural finishings and the brick house right next door which is this picture right here it's A4 that's been presented to the board yeah that that appears to me like a raised Ranch uh probably from the late 70s early 80s design I wouldn't I would not consider that d That's the testimony we have for Jason this evening that that concludes Our Testimony Mr no one else Mr Valente you're complete then yes we'll open it to our board professionals uh Mr Stoner and then at leise uh after Mr Stoner if you have any questions okay and go over your report of course uh yes they they started talking uh regarding my report to all the board members Cory Stoner filling in for Mr Simmons this evening um I did do the report in this application and um they they we talked about the zoning and the use variance requirements the site plan requirements they they started to go through uh through some of the items regarding what the sign is not compliant with um I think you might have might have comment that that was variances I believe they'd be um this application is use variant and an amended site plan I believe these are design waivers because they fall under the site plan design standards so they we consider design waivers rather than variances um you know you talked about the uh the first part about the sign being 17 ft uh away from Route 94 right away and that they need a waiver because they need a 20 foot uh setback requirement you discuss that um I do want to comment that this this has a very narrow RightWay you know this part of Route 94 is very narrow so sometimes the board might be looking at a sign that has a buffer a grass buffer area which is the right away and then you have the the required setback so um even though it's close to the 20 ft it's 20 ft from the edge of pavement for the most part not just the right oil line so uh keep that keep that in mind um the the post sign um have design waivers uh this sign be lighted by means of um uh would require a waiver if it's by means of flashing or intermittent intermittent illumination will the sign do that we can have uh Joe Palmer answer those questions okay I'll hold up I'll list the list that with the questions I have for him then um the sign cannot exceed 30 square ft the proposed sign is 48 square ft uh it turn that signs are are discouraged um Jason talked about the fact that it was inside the historic district you talked um You' assessed the um the uh alterations of buildings and and what the um um uh what you try uh try to make a make sure it occurs when it's an adjustment or a modification to a historic structure but I don't know if you talked about the a little bit on your planning testimony regarding the sign and whether or not that you know that is the the meat of this thing because it does not um um match the historic nature of the of the buildings themselves yeah that's um that's because it's kind of a a hard thing to to Define um and because when we say historic structure sure what you have in your mind might be different than what I have what I have is like uh you know colonial style with porch columns and uh different design uh details around uh the window finishings um and I I don't see that in this in this neighborhood uh so my testimony is that uh the sign itself and what it's made of and how it will look um uh significantly is compatible with the existing School design um that's that's that's my testimony on that um but you'll be able to work with the Corey and David in terms of fine-tuning the assign for that District so so what that might be and we can talk with Joe about that and then of course the school um instead of it just being a box rectangle perhaps it has some kind of roof feature or um pineal I think it's called something the carved um portion of of the sign so yes we can we can do things that that'll upgrade the look of it to match more of a historic look so the the final design may not be a box design that's shown in these photos it might have an architectural element to be a little bit more in the architectural it sounds like that's that's what the board is would like to see and and we were offering that thank you the uh part of the code design standard says one free standing sign is permitted with a maximum sareet of 12 squ F feet and maximum height of sare 8 ft you're 9.33 ft um that sign is off the roadway it's a little bit raised from the roadway so it's it's a you know it's 9.33 ft but it's several feet higher than um from Route 94 so it is that is a variance um the one freestanding sign there's one freestanding sign on this lot but you already have an existing freestanding sign so this will be the second freestanding sign we will take down that uh freestanding sign that's on the adjacent lot okay so property that will come down as part of this application yes we can make that a condition to yes yes of approval that's even if the nighttime it's dark you're not going to have any any sign that labels the school but I guess that that won't be an issue okay be an after hours IE okay in the maximum area 12 square ft uh you are at U well it says institutional signs shall not exceed 30 ft and you have 48 square ft and in the historic section of the code stat so you can't have a maximum of 12 squ ft so kind of they're kind of contradict to each other but you still need waivers from both of those those sections we had a if I could just add to that a little bit we had a application in a a C1 District it wasn't a c1h uh in uh pine cone Plaza it's called and they were asking for a larger sign than what's allowed larger than the 12 square s 12 square feet and multiple tenants um and I I think that you know every property is unique right but when this Z was was was made and the zoning requirements were made I think the board may have had more of a Main Street uh neighborhood in mind um whereas you know kind of closer to the road slower speeds so that's why the 12 square feet would be appropriate we're asking for a relief on that because as Cory said it's set off the road and a higher speed road yeah um I had a comment uh we had a comment regarding the uh uh the app to confirm that they'll be used only for this site and not be a billboard they commented on that so satisfactory and then my other comments are regarding the U the actual sign design and some of the specifics regarding the uh sign design so I wait you know for the other um um you know individual who testified on that Mr Palmer Can it can go back to those points uh on page three of C's report yes Mr Palmer can you come back up please Mr Palmer please come forward I believe you've discussed already uh letter i letter double I and uh with uh with the board and Mr St and we are at uh the triple can I go can I go back to yeah if I can go back under fourth comment four under site plan C uh oh C1 CI uh no sign shall be lighted by means of Flasher intermittent illumination can you can you speak to that yes you um it doesn't have to flash I know a lot of times when you think of an LED digital Marquee you think of this bright flashing sign that's like a ticker tape scrolling that is one of the other features of the programmability you can program how each slide appears disappears how long each of them stay on there so if you guys didn't want you know if you didn't want something constantly flicking and changing and changing you could say each slide has to show for 30 seconds each you know and that can be programmed to that um and as far as you're saying the the flashing bright yeah that's the way that the way that it can appear and disappear it's not going to it's not a flashing sign it can be you can essentially make an LED digital sign static so that it's just showing the text or if there teacher appreciation month and they want to feature a teacher and have her name up there you can put a still photo there it it's not going to be something that's just bright flashy and flickering at you know at the at the cars that are coming by right so that that will not occur with the flashing interum not OCC so my comment if that goes away um on E on page three I had um um you I think you commented like uh uh limit to nighttime brightness uh we we discussed that the limit the the the two uh limit sign brightness to five you know 5,000 nits you you just you um you agree to that uh 5,000 during the daylight and 500 uh nits at night um required automatic brightness control key to ambient light levels can you speak to that because sometimes during the day it's going to be darker be lighter than others how does that work um well the pro with the program the program will allow you to control that so um the ambient that's the best way to explain that I'm sorry um we used this comment in another some of our other towns where basically during the dates you had a cloudy day versus a sunny day so what you can do is you can uh I mean obviously if you set it at F if you're if you're saying that it's got to be set at at a certain level yes I mean if it's cloudy out it might appear brighter than say if it's 100% Sunny um but as far as that goes the you can you it's once again you can program it so that if it's if you if you feel it's too bright is there a light sensor related to this or no no there is there's going to be there is no no sensor there's no like aftermarket sensor or there's no sensor per se on the board itself and according to uh the reason for that is it's it's better to be programmed remotely than to have a light sensor is that correct yes the techology well yes because if you have with the with the programmability you can control it to the exact brightness that you want with the sensor you don't know what you're going to get sometimes historically the sensors sometimes aren't effective or work properly no they don't I mean they can malfunction I mean the set it's it's it's not going to work as well as someone being able to go in there and physically program it to the brightness that you want and who has the power the necessarily the power but the ability to modify the the brightness the programmer of the board who's the programmer of the board the school itself School itself yes uh requir uh required the display to go dark with a malfunction the sign is a malfunction does it go dark or does it you know there's no um um if there's something goes wrong with the sign what happens with the it's not going to all go you know no I mean that it's not going to start flashing no if it malfunctions it goes out that's that's usually why people call us after you know hey my board it's completely out I need you to come look at it and then the remained static for a certain period of time um so it's not flashing typically 5 to8 seconds but it could I think it' be more desirable for the for the school that it would it would stay longer so I'm not sure what kind of whatever whatever the whatever the board would say whatever would need to be required it could be customized to that length um and then I just just a general no videos are to be displayed this isn't a running video you said a picture it be a still picture something you can have I mean it the it has the capability to put to show a video or to show a movable GIF or a still photo or text but whatever but it doesn't have to do that and and we would certainly agree there would not be videos on this sign that's all I have right now thank you uh Cory I just share a picture I just uh so when we were talking about the hdu car signs that's a sign we did down in South Jersey with the Northfield Police Department so we can customize the top the shape make it any way you guys would want this is something the board may want to see okay so what we'll do is we'll can you email it to Marissa I can email this for to and then we you can show the board because obviously we're not going to all to see it now but in order to mark Mar into evidence is a I think I think it's valuable thefield police department down in South Jersey Atlantic County I think that this evidence from cell phones like that because I remember over the years we never would look at anything like oh that's up to you I mean I have other boards that accept it as long as it's emailed to the board secretary to be held in the record and then we can I'm just trying to show you the by the legal process but you say it's okay Elise I mean we' I've accepted it before it's up to the board if you don't feel comfortable accepting it off a cell phone that's emailed okay to give you a sense can be done the exact picture I the height of it the shape of it anything could be customized that whole thing is electronic this is electronic here can you can you explain the bottom the bottom that's a 4ot by 8ot electronic above here these are the hdu C portions of the sign but then they wouldn't be illuminated right the no they're not illuminated they're not illuminated but the subject sign we're talking about is going to be eliminated on both the top and the bottom yes the one that we have proposed right now that header cabinet has the ability to be eliminated with LED lighting inside Mark after after we see it all you can sit down Mr Palmer then we can uh you have questions we can ask Mr Palmer go ahead Mark oh no all right wait uh are you finish Mr Pala too because we'll open it to the board now since our professional is done and then we can have the questions okay no one else Mr Valente from your that is correct group correct U Marissa can you call on the board members for questions now in regards to this application John py I think the only question I have is um the lighting sequence like times and I I feel like I didn't get that clarified is it like 6:00 in the morning till 7: at night 5: in the morning sun up to sun down um I see instead of lumens we're using nits I guess that's something new for me but yeah so um you know that's all i' i' like to know is if it's lit up I know I can do my stuff at a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after Sunset like that's how my programming works not on my signs but on my house but that's the only thing I would want clarification on is you know when it's going to step down from you know 500 nits to step up to 5,000 nits during the daytime let's answer that definitively because I understand I was going to ask for what my intention was to do like 6:30 in the morning till 700 p.m at night with the consideration for how dark or light it is out the time of year have it comply with the brightness that we were just and I guess that's my kind of part of this question is does your software account for the day where we are Geo referenced and Sun up sun down and can it automatically do this or we're feature I mean you can you can have it uh you can have it turned down because it's it know it's it's it because it's on the cell modem it knows where it's at like like when you if I were to have a if I had my demo trial here and I turned it on it's going to pull the weather from here like it's going to know where it's at so you can have it so that you can set it you can set it you can customize it so that it is with how you're programming it so you could I mean you can program it down within the hour of each day you could literally say from 12 from 12:00 a.m. to 2: a.m. it's at this and you can go with each hour but then you can also have it set where let's say you have two functionality brightnesses you could have it or better example would be let's say from 7 to S you had it at 100% from 7 P to 7 a it shuts off or you could have it set like that with when sun rise and sunset right and and that's where I wanted to get that clarification because will it be bright first thing in the morning like because we already talked about how the Sun comes up and sets differently from winter to summer so you know I just want to make sure it's in sync with sun up sun down and timelines and all that because it doesn't have a photo cell that I understand so honestly I mean whether it was if it's I mean you guys could have the capability to go to the school and say during these months we want it at this brightness like you know because obviously during the winter months it's going to get it's not going to be you're not going to get as much daylight hours but the software doesn't do that automatically no it doesn't Okay so I mean but that that is all programmable by the user which in my opinion is is I would rather be able to do that then rely on then rely on like a what's that what the farmer alen act says when it's goes down I don't know about that it's usually right so yeah I mean as far as to answer I guess to wrap up your question you can the school can control it to however the board would say this in order to have your sign this is what you have to type of schedule you have to follow and that can be planned out from a you can plan that out for the entire year and and it's something where it seems just seems like a lot of work for the board to plan out when the solution could be in the software itself but it's not there but I'm just saying I know I mean hey I I I there there's no there's no LED company that EDT does it but go ahead I I understand but I'm saying you know the the LED manufacturers haven't come up with that solution gotcha and John that probably wouldn't be the board but Corey's department and zoning and land Administration and they have quite a bit to do now yeah I'm just you know what I'm saying I'm just yeah cuz I do I do it at my own house and I see you know I just program it so when the lights come on at 5:00 a.m. and they go down a half hour after sunet automatically all through the year what do you think about that Corey being to zoning issue you it's a zoning officer enforcement type issue to make sure it's uh they comply with what's in this in the in your resolution yeah that's that was my only question just control of the lumens and or whatever we're calling them now bits nits excuse me thanks so here's the other thing they can program it I mean you can you you know what sunrise and sunset is each day they can program it around that okay so that's another I mean that's as again as I said said the feature of being able to program it yourself you can program it so that hey if Sunset is 7:33 and you that I guess we were saying it would be off after 7 but during the winter months if it's I mean where I live it's dark by 4:30 right so um you could say by you know from 4:30 to 7:00 we're going to dial it down gradually so that it's not as bright as it was during the daylight right the school has the capability to program it that way okay and I just read that in party section II limit sign brightness 5,000 knits during daylight and 500 knits at night and uh if it's going off at 700 and it's 4:30 and it's dark then it's got to be that's I'm saying like during the daylight hours it could be 5,000 and then if if Sunrise is or sunset's 4:30 from 4:30 to 7 it can be it can be programmed okay to be at 500 and before we go to the rest of the board members while we're speaking about the program you said the school quote unquote will program it noren who at the school will program it will it be one individual multiple individuals that might not be aware of what we're discussing tonight in regards to the um board Engineers report and if it's approved the resolution how many people will be involved in programming this I would I would delegate this to my principal because he's uh really good with technology and I would also be capable of doing it and I have an IT guide too so I would say my principal and the backup would be our it guy all right thank you Marissa you can continue with the rest of the board members please you finished John yep I'm finished thank you Michael jic yeah um few questions um going back to the time that the sign operates uh you said it was 6:30 to 7 does the school have any evening activities so I I just don't want you to box yourself into something that might be too early to accommodate evening activities um rarely rarely so seven is okay that's fine with me um and then the other item I guess maybe if we can make it a condition I know they said they would allow the town to use it for emergency situations so um I guess uh a condition that they um kind of give the contact information and set something up something formally with the Emergency Management Department and not just emergencies but anything thank you thank you all I have thank you Mike Richard larua uh no questions Richard robacker I'm deferring to Mr Scott for my questions he has better questions than I do Mark Scott so so we've clarified why this is a historical area can we can we hear that again as what I what I was saying is that uh that your ordinance calls it a historic area but but I don't know why myself what makes it a historic area uh in in the physical presence of what's there today um so there's no like Old Stone buildings I mean down the road in Hardon there's a one school one room Schoolhouse that's on the national historic register but to my knowledge none of the other buildings in in this Zone in Sparta in this area of the of the township are are historic so what what I was trying to say is I did a little research myself just internet stuff um to to try to find out why what makes it special and historic and it used to be quite a quite a lively Hamlet a long time ago and I think that that Nostalgia has captured into in your zoning okay thank you has everyone within 200 ft been notified of this meeting absolutely yes okay um you know what bothers me and and is is that that this that this sign goes with the land and that this this this variance that we are asked to propose or as to approve goes with the land and now and and the use may not always be a school so why why when we enter the township of Sparta do we have to have a flashing bright light I mean this goes to the fact that this town does not have a master plan or our master plan is just Swiss GES and we haven't looked at that in 40 years and we don't know you know when we enter Sparta our we want to put bright flashing signs on every street is that where we want to go it's not and wait no please please please please and so I mean that obviously concerns me this this sign goes with the land it goes forever is that can I respond to that or should I wait no um you can respond now Mr Valente if you're so kind Mark so we okay please ahead Mr Valente been attached as a condition to the sign that it can only be used for the two reasons we discussed school related activities and Community related activities you attach that as a condition to your use variance anybody who wishes to use that sign for any other purpose has to come back before you for a use variance that is your protection and that's why D variances are permitted to be granted with the ATT attach with the excuse me the conditions that the board so requires the second comment is it will not be flashing and we've agreed to that condition and one other point uh Norine with respect to longevity so we were in the first cohort of charter schools back in 1996 there were only six Charter Schools we are still in existence oh we're still in existence like we're one of the longest standing charter schools in New Jersey and so I don't I just want to reassure everybody I I'm I don't plan on going anywhere but and um excuse me Le what did you think about what Mr Valente said with the conditions attached to the use variants I think if the board were so inclined to grant that that those should be conditions of approval so that if it becomes any other use um that sign would no longer be permitted agreed um can you just tell me what what what is the thesis statement what is the reason that you need this sign an electronic sign what's wrong with a static sign with a light on it I think this is we're the School of Technology okay um I think it fits with our mission I think uh it's going to be um better than the sign we currently have because um it's going to tell more than just Sussex charter school it's going be able to say you know school closed uh emergency things so that's why I think it's better than uh significantly better than the sign we currently have okay I don't think it fits in the area and I'm I'm out for that reason but whoever else has the next question man and tener yeah just one question my biggest thing I guess now the original proposal was the top part supposed to be illuminated was that what we were discussing as of right now with this current design the top part is illuminated but if we were going to go with that hdu carved it would not be illuminated and that's what we're looking to do as a board right so you would work with Corey to get a design that would fit in a historic nature and and as we said I can email I can email the the picture I showed you guys but along with that I mean there's I have countless number of examples of similar designs to that and yes I could work with Corey directly on a design that would be fit for the where the school is located and the historic nature of because we may have noticed it might be limited things but it does have some sort of some signic against um National Registries in neighboring towns so it's it's a hamlet split between two townships in a way and it might have been forgotten now but you guys do have an opportunity to be a Forefront for that now in a way too so take advantage of that opportunity and and build a sign that does truly reflect what your school's uh missions and goals are in the historic nature that we are so that's all the questions and comments I have thank you Landon any other questions from the board well I I guess if you're going to leave this for core each review What specifically at least yeah what exactly is the is the board looking a few comfortable with approving a sign in theory may be what he has on a cell phone and then Corey has the final say is that something that the board is comfortable with doing or is there more guidance that you'd like to provide or um what do you think uh Corey about I think it's the first time ever going by an image on a cell phone so a lot that's a lot to ask for but that aside I I if the board wants you know he gets to that point they are leaving it up you know to myself to work with the applicant on that I I I want a little guidance sure Cory's opinion of what the sign you know looks pretty might not be the same as everybody else's so I would like some guidance what the board is looking for you know from the sign is going to be internally lit is it going to be not lit at all I think I think some guidance is needed and what type of guidance uh too besides the board that you can help make us all feel com comfortable and Mr Stoner besides that cell phone image I mean because I think the most significant change is it's internally illuminated currently versus one that's you know just a carved sign I mean that's significantly different and I don't know when they spoke earlier it was we can maybe put awnings or roof cover and that that's not what that image was at all so right you there's there's a a lot in between what you saw on a cell phone and what they originally proposed correct so in regards to well go ahead Mr I know you've heard some testimony tonight number one and perhaps Joe can expand again the top Board of the sign I describe what you would do with it first of all so so what we would do with it is we would eliminate the illuminated rectangular cabinet and we as I said before the top portion that could that would become the carved portion of it will be non-illuminated and we could work with I could work directly with Corey on what would be a suitable uh an acceptable design and overall size for it oh because right now the the cabinet on top is 3T by 8 ft we could make you know bring it we can make it you need a sign there a size V or waiver for the sign so how's I'm not sure the board can grant a waiver not knowing what the ultimate size of the sign is going to be and me that's one of the waivers you're seeking right 48 sare feet Yes I mean what I'm saying is we I'm just I guess I'm just trying to give an examp give examples that we can we can customize the s that we can customize it to whatever would be whatever Corey and the board would find to and and you could also put the condition that that part top part of the sign can be no more than blank square feet so you can address the waiver that way the board's comfortable with that that's oh excuse me Mike you had a good suggestion if you're so kind to uh yeah so um I mean obviously everybody's heard the board's concerns um concerns of Corey now what about going back to the drawing board drawing up a new sign and then coming back present that I mean obviously you wouldn't need to give all the testimonies again or the presentation of this testimony for the new design but willing to do that and perhaps even before that share it with uh Corey ahead of time I kind of agree I kind of agree to that I'm I'm a little bit uncomfortable not having very much guidance on what but I think that the board should um you know the uh sure you maybe some some comments are they're okay with you know the the the sign you know designed in general you know the U you know maybe give them you know some recommendations of what what you're looking for but I'd be more comfortable with the board had to say you if it's minor changes things of that nature it's I have no objection you know but if it's um right now um if it doesn't look like this I don't know what I don't know what it's going to look like myself we'll do that so you would chairman so besides uh you you mentioned something Miss Valente about providing some of the information to Corey before you come back here but you'll still have to come back here right so we'll have to carry the application correct at Le correct all right um I think you it should be submitted 10 days prior so everyone can review it before I mean obviously Cory should have it as well but I think the design is more the board to look at then uh Marisha would that be available the time limit on October 9th to carry with no further notice good fine October 9th does that sound good Mr Valente yeah good yes um can we can we open it to the public at least for the oh yeah definitely yeah yeah oh yeah yeah uh the hearing is now open to the public for any comments or questions please come forward and sir please give your bit on the counter and sir please give your name and address to the secretary wils it's wi LMS will you be testifying or asking questions Sor will you be testifying or asking questions I will uh testify can you raise your right hand I don't know I need to ask questions okay can you raise your right hand do you swear the test M about to give this matter shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth oh yes can you state your address for the board sure it's uh 389 North Church Road which is Route 94 thank you sir here in Sp that's quite some testimony I've heard here this evening quite a bit of its misleading and I didn't want to talk a little bit about the history of the Monroe District it is not defunct it is why it's owned as a historic district theide of course doesn't mean anything it doesn't fall in uh meeting any kind of standards for what's here I think perhaps the pictures you've been given are a couple of the newer homes that are in there the majority of the homes in this District District are at least 100 mine is actually more than 100 the the Downing property's over 100 there's three old buildings there Jim Downey lives in another home just next to those three that too dates quite a bit the district includes parts of uh uh old Prospect School Road and Hopkins and if you draw just down to there you'll see those homes along there are just as historic as ever the newer homes that are being shown here of course they would that it doesn't it's not historic the historic district moves up not quite as far as the Homestead Restaurant for those of you who live here and know it but it does uh move southbound beyond the proposed Meeting House the meeting house quite historic it was uh almost abandoned uh like the other properties that have new homes on them because it it was just about to fall in and rescued and restored to what you see it was a meeting house uh for the Monroe District next to it you'll if you go out any of you take the look it's the yellow home right next door is quite historic in itself acted as a postmaster place until it was Consolidated here in town right here at the post office like I tell you what it's it's still viable and uh the train still comes through though there is no passenger Service uh in its day brought passengers that came far outside of what is the historic district carriages and later on motor carriages from the Downing property would pick people up bring them up to the Stonehouse which was a vegetable stand we take them to over to the homestead with a your general store and usually took them to the lake Corell area all right enough about the historic district but the codes are here and the sign violates at least five of them and there is a reason why uh the sign's mon it's a monstrosity to begin with it far exceeds the square footage okay it should be 12 square ft I don't I don't know where this is but I have pictures of the sign it's 8 by six and we're even uh shorting the 4 Ines on each side which by the code States you'll include the top to it I don't know I come up with 52.7 square ft it's Mammoth very mammoth uh the top half is actually going to be led lit uh straight white light the bottom half will be the digital how you going to modify it sir is be me I have no idea how you're going to make that look to fit in with the church which is quite historic and uh you know the property itself is not really part of the school though Mr Elliott does rent it to the school it's the single room uh even behind there the parking lot which is also used rented by the school it's from 2009 when the school was put in a special subdivision was also made to give Mr Elliot the opportunity to have that small parking lot because if he was going to you know rent businesses there's no parking it's a it was an old postage stamp lot uh you couldn't there'd be no parking nowhere to stay couple of places were in there uh you know he rented it for a little while as a a consignment shop and antique Place lasted all a two months you'll uh note that it it later became uh the flooring store you'll find the sign for that is still posted on the the meeting house where we want this sign it'll be above the proposed sign the whole thing the real thing is Route 94 you don't live out there you should take a ride the area is dangerous it's very dangerous I know it's a state road there are no sidewalks there are no shoulders none none take a ride over there you don't keep two hands on a wheel okay it only takes one tire to to fall off the pavement that's where the car is going it's actually the sign will be a traffic distraction right and a road hazard it's bad enough there is a the school sign went in uh it's it's there on the property did anybody get a picture of that I have one for you here I'd like to submit sorry what do you have a picture of the school sign the existing one oh okay sure we that is well comping with the area beautiful nobody objects to it how much more could you ask as a Woodson stained Brown background you got gold paint inlay on the lettering nobody complains because finally it tells what is actually back there you have no idea how many people for years ask me what's going on back there at least can he submit that legally would Lord would like to see it yeah we'll mark it it we'll mark it then 01 sir sir can you bring it to our attorney she can mark it as evidence oh thank you Corey sure that's a picture of the sign as you enter the driveway the rest of the photo illustrates just how dangerous the roadway is I have another photo that illustrates distractions you put a sign in like that did you take these signs these pictures can expect that you'll see even more of this did you take these pictures yourself sir I know I noticed it was Mar marked March 22nd maybe did you 22 yeah okay I have one from uh 23 it shows an overturned car right out front the sign is the same in that picture too sure that one is also dated want me to mark this one as well yeah thank you Elise there is no room for distraction in the area the wooden sign that's out there if you want to move it that's fine uh it should be this thing here I like I say comes I come up with 52 Square ft I don't know you read the code it is 12T this L should be uh kind of you know blending in with the area and it does actually State wood should be wood or stone it's the preferable material sirry could you get near the microphone I'm sorry and an O2 where is that in relation to the school I'm I'm sorry the the second picture you submitted it's right across you're looking at the same location across the street from yes it is the the driveway to the uh top left actually is the uh dual use driveway into the school and when it gets to the end I'm sorry can you let the applicant see the the pictures as well when it comes all the way down to the end these are only you could take those so you can show these are actually just two how many more points do you have uh sby because we want Mr you know he wants to respond back to you so I just want to know the time limit if you have much more I have more and really most of this is in the code I know we talked about flashing but it's not just flashing uh it's about proposed motion or apparent motion this sign if anybody knows if you just drive up the street to the county tech school they have a sign it's half the size of this proposed sign uh you'll note the uh American flag that actually is on the digital display where the flag has a tendency to wave so this would denote to me I don't motion you put something like this and you know in less than a proposed 12 feet from the road you got enough problems out there as it is all right the parade of buses in the morning in in the afternoon uh you know I'm I've put up with it since 2009 to me it's not a big deal but I do get to see all of the problems and accidents that happen out there I don't know anybody here but we we have uh the traffic uh hoses right now currently uh in front of the meeting house uh I guess maybe you know maybe off sir uh maybe Mark is is running a a traffic study on number of vehicles you know back and forth maybe you'll get some of that a little later too well you know what sir maybe when the applicant and professionals they go back to the drawing board with the sign and so forth and in touch with our board engineer Corey Stoner and then back to this board on October 9th was it Marissa yeah oob October 9th you'll be here we can see what they come up with at that point and and we'll have Mr Valente Mr Palmer noren if you want to respond to to some of his comments right now I think I think it's best I've heard his comments I think it's best on October 9th we come back and address the comments did you hear that sir so they'll address everything when they come back with the application since it's being carried to the next meeting all right I just it's not less than 12T from the right away at 17 ft you know it's but again we can go over all that at the at the uh next meeting okay K Ken can we get traffic counts like this gentleman's speaking about oh no ST rude I mean they're easily available on the internet yeah uh like rich said that's a state uh state highway state road yeah so there's actually traffic counting uh hoses out there at the moment I don't know who has put them out there but let's let's just go with when they come back Mark with the sign preparation all that and this gentleman will be here and we can Pi it up at that point that agreable audience for for your time all right I too will keep looking at the code too all right thank you made the right decision looking at it at the code the area is still valid and I'll get you maybe next time no that goes Mr Val this goes us over here thank you I'm sorry all right sir thank you more pictures I'll get you some more you don't all 56 of them all right thank you anyone else in the public have any questions or comments please come forward if not close to the public and back to the board and Mr valentea you have all the information you need for the next uh next meeting correct yes thank you for your time and thank you too and so forth we'll see you in uh in October thank you all right the board uh the chair extra Sir Mr blind if you want to take those anything else Elise are you're good all right the chairain further notice yeah you want me to email email that correctly yes please email that to Marissa and then there'll be no further notice on this application you will not receive a letter in the mail this is the only notice you'll get that'll be carried to October 9th all right these are your copies the extras the chair will entertain a motion for a quick five minute recess so our regular board attorney can settle in and so forth second please second all right all in favor thank you question he's hiding over there in the corner app e e e e e e e e e e you would not believe have to let me know the next time Rich you got to say 10 just too sloppy you need a blank page not conditions and everything that's why so many tickets were dismissed could make dismissed dismissed dismiss dismiss can't do anything about it anyway can we start without Mark yeah let get going excuse me Glenn can we can we start without Mark or not yes sir we can do car entertain a motion going back into public hearing from the board no move second please second all in favor thank you Mr chairman since you're down a member for the moment you have other business that you have to conduct too right no that's this application you got resolutions we cover read dingl That's all done oh yeah shut up and sit down we're right to the uh Eric Fraser and Ellen Stewart application so we can move for out Mark for the time being well where is he where is heating no he was he's talking to people outside um re in you need you need to gav let me know oh you want you want to give this to Landon when Landon that way no no no no outside and that way he was oh he's out there yeah yeah but outside yeah hey just let let Landon back in when he knocks work the door unless they come in the front door he's not in the lobby no one room okay yeah whatever committee is going on or something whatever is going on here oh here there he is you got him thank you thank you Landon can't start without you yeah iation all right uh application 924 Eric Fraser Ellen Stewart for c viance for Lea how can we help you and good evening Mr chairman members of the board my name is Todd from the law from theas and hooker right here in Sparta we representer Stewart and their home is at 508 West short we're here tonight on application seeking variance Rel turn it up a little louder buddy yeah if you can speak a little want to make sure joh and then sir before we go any further do you and your applicant object to any board members that reside in Lake Mohawk from hearing this application all right thank you and the same format we'll have like we had for the last application you present your application and after you're finished we'll have our board professionals with any comments and questions and then back to the board members themselves for comments and questions yes sir we hope to move through as possible thank you give the hour so um again the property address is 508 westore Trail in Lake Mohawk you don't need to hear me talk anymore we're gonna we have three Witnesses uh potential three Witnesses with have Mr Jason Dunn uh from Associates Paul Ashworth the architect and then Mr Fraser uh can testify as well about some of the uh things that Mr had in the letter and we'll we'll try to address those so without further Ado um I got Mr Jason done here I think he's already been recognized by this yes we already qualified him earlier that's okay right Glenn or you have to do still under oath you still got to tell the truth and your license didn't expire in the past 20 minutes did not all right and just just to really cut to the chase here you did receive a copy of a report from uh I think it's Dave it's David from Dave dated July 12th 2024 right Jason yes and it read like a novel didn't it yes PR that's all you had to say all right thank you Glenn continue please all right Mr dun would you please uh describe the site in the uh in the seven uh bul variant sure um I put it put up the board the uh plan in front of the the zoning board here that was is the same plan that was submitted um it is a single family home existing single family home on a a lot in uh Lake Mohawk in the R3 Zone uh the applicant proposes to add a level and do uh interior Renovations and uh put an addition on to accommodate uh an interior stairwell for the home uh the number of bedrooms will not change um the lot size is 8,536 square ft and the width is 60 ft and the depth is about 141 ft between the street and the lake um the the house addition itself and and the add level is not going to exceed the existing footprint um the Second Story will not over run run over the side yard setbacks or go over the sidey yard setbacks uh the existing condition of the first floor and and the ground floor um it does uh violate the setback uh which I'll go over now the um the right yard setback is 8 ft minimum required and the existing condition is 7 1/2 ft left side setback is 7 ft uh and the total yard setback is 14.5 where 20 minimum is required um the lot width minimum is 80 feet and the existing is 60 feet we're not proposing to change that um and impervious coverage minimum maximum required is 25% and existing end proposed is at 35.3% however I wanted to note that um the home owners took out some impervious so it's it's even less than what the existing it's less than what it used to be is what I'm trying to say it's by about 2.4% so the map you see here represents the the walks that were removed I have a survey here from uh 2017 that shows that there were walks there so they are trying to reduce it as much as they can um and the the privious coverage is actually going down with this application correct um oh yes it is going down it is going sorry it's at it's not not it's now currently at 36.7 correct I think for the record come on Jason let's get this and Mr hooker if you could speak a little louder too when you're com you got you got 35.3% uh impervious proposed yeah and and excuse me Glen the three variances you're looking for the impervious coverage building coverage dwelling and the rear yard setback for debt correct the other ones are all existing but is it existing or is it proposed because you just said it's being reduced by 2.4% so is it less than the 35.3 yes no this sorry what was the question there Glen is the 35.3 according to their plan at 35.3 is a proposed impervious coverage of existing is at 36.7 all right well it doesn't so it actually went down a little bit but it still did not go down to meet the 25% required by so the existing is 36. what seven okay I just want to make sure that the maker of the motion gets his gets the fact straight so has to do it once thank you sorry for that confusion that's okay Sor to your flaw want got that no problem get that right all right building coverage Jas okay so building coverage is um 18% and we're asking for uh 24.4% um and distance to the rear yard set back to a deck is required to be 35 ft and we're asking for 32.9 Ft um and then you're making note like our board attorney said on a purose coverage the uh 36.7 correct yes correct right thank you and you're reducing the building coverage yes 24.8 24. building coverage is also being reduced from 24.8 to 24.4 right so we're reducing impervious and building coverage by adding the addition mixed up sorry about that so yes it the building coverage is being reduced as well um the existing is 24.8 and we're reducing at 24.4 all right go ahead um so we're asking for variances on these uh proposed conditions um I've looked at the site and uh reviewed the architectural plans it's my opinion that uh this could qualify as a C1 hardship variance that the size has a reduced lot width uh therefore it can't meet all the um area setbacks we we're respecting the sidey guard in the in the added level and not encroaching any more into the uh sidey yard setbacks uh as far as the coverage goes um there's really no no more impervious coverage that we could take away to to further uh improve that and same with the building coverage um the the board will see when the architect presents that this is a real Improvement to what's there today um and I think that it fits into the neighborhood and I don't have any further questions all right the architect then please come forward s you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board T I help you God I do and who might you be I am Paul as the PB Paul spell your last name for the record you have you testified before this board before yes I this year three times this year and your license is still valid yes it is okay Mr chairman thank you any questions from the board oh what's your address it's 49 Old Road Newton New Jersey thanks thank you Mark go ahead s do you have an exhibit for the board I do I have exhibits for the board they are as presented with the exception of adding the HVAC to address the comment in the letter I'm going to steal yours so I can put them up as I typically do I'm going to do plans and elevations which one which one of these has the uh the addition there's no way that that tape can be picking you up I'm just asking him yeah yeah yeah Cory move that mic over near them behind no the one behind you is it picking me up at this volume that volume is good just thank you so yeah yeah so do you want me to mark these now A1 if it hasn't been submitted yes it has not been submitted because I added the HVAC unit on this one so that you could see where it would all right so mark that as A1 please and how are we going to identify that A1 of sheet a2.1 and that was prepared by you sir right yes it was okay go ahead there we go so I'm going to start off with the floor plans first and what I've always done is existing existing and proposed so you can see the existing basement here and this is the rear of the lake you'll notice the blue line which is actually the setbacks from dous PL so you can get references to where you are um the plan was it's got a kind of a step basement a lot of these Lake Mohawk houses do where they've got a little bit of retaining wall we are planning on taking that out and repairing or extending the foundation in these areas to get a fuller basement uh family room with a little kitchenet so that you can have usage to the lake stair coming up and the addition of that stair that Jason was talking about in that back corner is right here coming up to the main floor you can see that is the edge of the existing residence and it matches all the way across but what we've done is there's the bump for that stair that's a basically a three-story stair basement for first second floor we've opened it all up for the living room and the dining room with full glass and you actually see it on that left rear elevation and the master bedroom and bedroom stay on the first floor the garage still stays here um and we just got a mud room that carries through and on the top floor which is mentioned in several of uh the engineering memos is at the back back of the lake there are two offices and I'm sure that the owners will testify that they are fully work atome employees so we've got full glass and bunch of work to make sure that they were equally spaced and equally sized for both of the uh applicants here um and then the master bedrooms up here with a master closet and a hallway it's actually really what it is it's just their office level and their bedroom level for the elevations what we did here to make it really clear is there's again the blue line which match the plan that's the setback and it's also to show you that when we did the addition for the second floor we respected in state within the setbacks um first floor obviously stayed the same we just basically opened it up with glass you can see the elevator the tower on the left side um to answer one of the questions hey where are you going to put the HVAC I did not put it on the original plan that's why I did it they will be doing many splits off of here we're assuming there's about eight to nine heads all be served off of one Mitsubishi split unit you'll see that's about the exact size and that's where we would put it so it would not be engaged on the ground because you've got the opportunity for this kind of like you know one on 12 low slope roof from the existing to the new edition we would put it there it also shortens all the runs mechanically um so you can see both of them so you can see the front elev a uh garage door entry everything is relatively about where it was we're placing some windows to even it out um uh materiality is going to fit within Lake Mok it's one of these kind of newer style Lake style homes we're still keeping a rubble stone foundation with a water table the materials are expected to be a hearty plank horizontal siding in these kind of gray brown type colors um Windows all be black really about it pretty pretty cool design like just single slope roofs you kind of get this opening towards the lake Mr Ashworth the uh the the plans uh indicate that there's going to be a generator on site yes um have you specked out a generator for the for the home yes I did so um on Jason's plan the generator is located on the west face I know it's called out there it's right there sorry right there and the uh ordinance reads 50 DB at the lot line so with it being this close we will not be able to achieve that with the standard unit so I end up calling gener and I have these for you I can mark this as A2 for you um yeah me2 it is 58 DB at standby and 64 at the standard 32 for that UL standard rating and what what we need to do is we need to install the additional level two Sound Reduction which changes the muffler and puts another enclosure around it the generic rep said whatever you guys need it to be at that distance they design it basically just gets thicker backing to quiet it down so what your testimony is is that gener will come up with whatever it takes to meet the sparta code got it and they said that reduction is very common be honest I talk to them uh Mr chairman you like to see this yeah Glen uh we can mark that and we can take a look at that I think we want to yeah I marked it sure oh okay it's A3 right A2 oh I'm sorry you already did Mark it okay if I can ask one question what was the size again oh it was a 32 32 okay yeah it's under the 40 yeah [Music] oh you're welcome oh it is uh powered by natural gas which they do have into their home they brought in they did the swap over last year whenever it was yep natural gas no propane tanks or anything else outside Eric question wait a minute uh mark this let them present the whole application and we'll follow up with our questions thank you thank you all excited you must be Eric I am Eric Eric do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth and proceedings before the board tonight's s you God yes I do okay go ahead Mr Frasier you and your wife Ellen Stewart own the home at 508 W short Trail yes we do and um you heard Mr Ashworth indicate that you and your wife both work from home is that true that is true you work from home full-time 5 days a week we both are 100% work from home unless we are traveling for client when we go visit clients at their client sites and the um you understand that the um the existing home has three bedrooms and when the new if the new structure is approved and built you're not going to have any more than three bedrooms correct correct and the home offices the proposed home offices will not be used for bedrooms correct correct all I have right now once the board has questions no other uh individuals to testify this is it the your application is complete yes okay we'll now open it to our board professional Corey Stoner please with your report okay well that's uh David Simonson's report July 12th 2024 um I'll go over a couple the items that David has in here and I got a couple extra questions myself um you talked about the generator um it's going to be a 32kw with a sound reducing cabinet uh what it and uh that'll be provided as a condition of any approval yes whatever Gena will have to do for that okay and you got a A2 it shows the gener but that does not include the sound reducing you know specifications yet have to pay for the shop drawings to get that thing moving first yes okay all right um for zoning so you have a variances for the impervious coverage even came down a little bit um the building coverage there was a comment that and and this might be a a a comment from Mr dun there it went down from 248 to 24.4 where was the reduction on the building coverage I see the same footprint that's why I'm confused other than the deck the the the deck was page I guess it came down in perious coverage but the building coverage my question why why is that reduced this might be for Paul as well so you understand that deck was impervious it was solid so when we I can show it on here so it's a little hard but you'll see the distance of the depth of the proposed here versus the fat fatter depth of the deck we pulled it back okay that's what we did so the reductions related to the uh the deck in the back the front face got pulled back you know we had to stay within those limits and we pulled that back and I played the game of getting the square footage to the stairwell to work the board understand that that piece in the back thank you that clarifies that question thank you thank you um and the rear yard setback for the deck uh is 32.9 and that's needs to be 35 the there's a number of existing non-conformities with the structure I think it's important to point out to the board you know uh the right side setback 7.5 the left side 7.0 the building's been um even though you're put a second story technically if you put a second story over the full structure you would be getting variances for the setbacks but you setback in set back the second floor can you explain what you did for that yeah yeah yeah so the best one is to use is to use this rail elevation so that face where my pen is and that face where my pen is that's the existing residence the dark blue line is where we set it in and had to do a lot of work because this is all clear Spann as you see with truss has already work the truss manufacturer to figure out the depth and the support because it's carrying that all of that load not just the floor load important part for the board U because you have a the in your ordinance is 8ft minimum and 20 foot total so they brought that top portion according to their site they have if you look at there's some dotted lines on the site plan which shows 10 foot each side so that they meet that requirements they do not need a variance for sidey yard setbacks the hbac system they they discussed the fuel system for is natural gas I would asked that the uh the the the the variance plan be updated with all the underground utilities for water and natural gas they're they're not shown on the plans today that any objection to that no okay uh the septic system there's a septic system on the property I I have not had a chance to look at the septic records what is the is a septic system designed for the three bedrooms Mr fer can address that yes when we purchased a property um the septic system failed um due to the size of the lot we had to put in one of those Advanced ecosystem uh ecoflow mechanical septic processing systems um uh that's been that was put in before we closed on the property it was part of the deal and uh it gets serviced twice a year when was that uh 20 well the septic went in at the end of 2017 any approval by the board be prior to zoning permit they'll have to get a u approval from the Cs County Health Department anyways say condition of the the zoning permit so that could be ver condition of approval that they provide um uh proof of the health department that it's designed and satisfactory for three B and get this Health Department sign off they're going to have to sign off on it anyways according to our our zoning process um storm drainage U that is not an issue we we have part of the code it talks about if we have an increase uh in pervious coverage over 500 s ft that have to do additional um storm water requirements they do not um there is a trench train in front of the garage David had commented it doesn't show on the plans where that trench train goeser can testify that yep that was existing when we bought the house um it drains into PVC pipe that runs under the ground along the side of our house and it goes through the seaw wall and into the lake can we have that added to the plans as well yep yes okay the second floor um David comments on the U three-bedroom uh dwelling they got two uh two offices on the Lakeside uh shown on the on the um lake side of the dwelling they are definitely for the record their offices there's no potential for them to be turned into bedrooms in the future correct we are work from home employees uh we are currently working in two very small bedrooms and uh that's the reason why we need the extra space um we both are pretty much all day on Virtual team meetings and uh we just we need the space we work with the architect to ensure that uh they are indeed designed as offices there are no closets um they will uh they will remain offices um there's a David had a comment on environmental impact statement U don't believe in a full environmental impact statement is required just want to make a comet it's inside the work on the deck is in within 50 ft raring buffer of the lake however you know but uh DS Ser permit by rules for flood Hazard areas as long as it's out a flood plane and greater than 25 ft from the watered way um it qualifies for a permit by rule so there's no DP permits that would be required for that deck um other approvals needed the septic system building permits um and then the uh Dave mentioned Water Service to make sure that the water company does not require anything different I I don't think they will but um and um but he had he had that as a comment I believe that's all I have all right thank you Corey yes sir we'll open it to the board members now Marissa if you're so kind John FY I have no questions Michael doic no questions Richard robacker no questions at this time Rich lofa uh just one quick question you're showing a possible future elevator are you accommodating that in the size of the generator or is thatz it's a little electric elevator right yeah okay little hydraulic pump type deal releases if there's ever an emergency yeah they're not going to spend the money on it but I put the closet so they aligned it's going to be a hydraulic elevator not a electric so they are you ready for this there are the the ones that you use residential are electric hydraulic they have a little tiny pump that moves it okay literally that's it but the generators is size okay yeah it's a 32 you'd normally be around the 24 size for somewhere around here 22 slightly upsized okay there question mark Scott uh went by the site today beautiful beautiful plan that you have here um will will this be going in front of SP Lake Mohawk for their final blessing uh as part of the application Mr Scott we submitted the approval from Lake Mohawk it was already approved and you had that blessing okay great um is the uh the uh the air conditioning is not going to be the same color as the siding yeah I mean I honly I know you just popped it on there but yeah I popped it on there that's my intent I want to hide it right I absolutely want to hide it they aluminum enclosures you can paint okay all right and this is just a trying to understand the question so it's it the generator has to be whatever it is 58 DB at the property line you said 50 DB at the property line so if you put your what how many decb does a generator lose per foot do you know how that how that works I asked almost the same exact question I'm like is this going to be like in enclosure that's like a foot and a half thick they said no the first thing they do is they change out the muffler to a more high performance okay and they obviously have these things tested it's you're right it's a ring at every foot so I'm going to tell them hey you know here's a deposit move forward it's 7 foot5 from the property line you need to be at 50 DB for that they take the number of the reduction from the normal with the new muffler and then they build the sound enclosure and they get X number per inch per baffle inside it's basically not the standard aluminum one it's get that on the Guardian Residential model that's the okay thank you very much Glen L and tenary I have no questions and then our board Attorney Glenn you have any other questions no the only uh question I would have probably is of Corey as to how do we want to do the generator testing they they'll provide a specifications and we can do a noise uh we'll do it do something after yeah all right I just want you all to understand if in fact generra or whoever it is doesn't conform he's going to tell and then they're going to have to sell you another Muffler thank you Glen any other testimony Mr chairman all right uh I'll I'll open it to the public for any comments or questions please come forward see I went in the public it's now closed to the public and back to the board any other questions or comments from the board before we make a motion the 200 foot notice went out right yeah Versa has the original whites and greens in the it was all submitted before the meeting okay Mr Scott we will not even have a hearing unless it good gets the Good Housekeeping seal of approval okay so that that's just something that's a pre-check because we don't want to waste the board's time of of having to have it do over Mark okay just asking the question because you know they have neighbors that are going to lose part of their view that's all but okay we wouldn't get all dressed up and have a hearing unless it all went out and they even you have us check all right all right thanks thank you okay the the board will entertain a motion approving this application if no one does the chair will make the motion I tried it last time I can guide you through it John you um the chair the chair makes a motion to have a board attorney prepare a resolution approving application 9-24 Eric fre and Ellen Stewart for home renovations with the variance for impervious coverage 11.7% dwelling coverage variance 6.4% rear yard deck variance 2.1 feet are those correct Corey yes yes thank you with the uh following conditions generra manufactur will meet the sparta decel codes for the generator and also in regards to the property line to Cabinet situation correct correct all right and also adherence to all the points in our board engineer Engineers report and also the necessary approvals from susus County Health Department for the septic system of course Sparta Township construction officials building permits Etc and a Sparta Township water service also to provide as Bill plans upon completion of the project and this is according to all testimony and plans submitted here tonight do I have a second second second any discussion chairman just one question is it going to be new sighting around are you going to do matching yeah replace it all replace it all okay and roof materials will be uh matching yep you got it okay all right thank you thank you Glenn Marissa please call the role John P yes Michael jic yes Rich larua yes Richard robacker yes Mark Scott yes L tener yes chairman Kari yes congratulations a VAR been approved would you also like to wave your right to a WR a written resolution yes you'll get it just means you can go you can get your yes yes yes okay uh CH L detain a motion approving that so moved second please second Marissa just I'm you know me Glenn Marissa take the vote please the roll call please you know me by now I'm sorry Glenn go ahead M John F yes Michael jic Yes Richard larua yes Richard robacker yes Mark Scott yes L teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry Yes again congratulations thank you thank you thank you oh wait we uh now seeing no one else in the public for comments on items not on the agenda tonight I make motion to adjourn the meeting second please I'll second that all in favor I thank you see I do all eyes with that one take a roll