##VIDEO ID:n_dRsnzG6Vg## e e e e e e e e e e okay um good evening everyone this is the township of Springfield Board of adjustment meeting for September 17th 2024 the time is 6:03 notice has been given in accordance with the Sunshine Law notice was published on December 13th at The Star Ledger one of the official newspapers for the township Springfield for the year 2023 and posted an Annex Building on December 14th 2023 I believe notice is also on the Springfield's website can we please stand to salute the flag Al flages okay we will have roll call please um Madam chair I just want to bring it to your attention that we have a new member his name is Peter shitz is that how you pronounce your name so so welcome welcome Peter thank you for joining us for volunteering with us okay uh Mr Steven Hawkin Mr Michael Mr Steven F m'am Miss Maron aano mrzz herez miss an Anika doson Vice chair Mark Cunningham here and chairwoman jod Cen here we have a war thank you very much all right first order business are resolutions uh for memorialization first resolution um that is up for approval is application 202 24-13 for Shadow Lawn Drive block 20003 Lot 4 uh lot coverage variant um has every member of the board had an opportunity to review the resolution are there any questions or comments at this time okay you will obain okay thank you um are there any questions from any of the members of the board if none is there a motion to approve I'll move I'll second Mr Mr Hawkin yes and Mr Fen bound yes motion passes thank you the next resolution on this evening for memorialization is application 20245 24 Gregory roadblock 3512 lot six requests for front yard and side yard variances for generator and Chef has every member had an opportunity to review the resolution are there any questions or comments if none is there a motion to approve I'll move it I'll second Mr Fen bound yes and Mr Hawkin yes motion passes excellent thank you very much we'll move on to our applications this evening the first application that I'm going to call this evening is application 2024-25 Short Hills Avenue block 608 Lot 10 this is a request for a front yard Varian relief for an AC condenser is the applicant here come on up to the podium how are you I'm okay how are you tonight good thank you we're going to swear you in okay please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth I do please State your full name spell your last name and give us your home address David gisler GE SS l r 145 Short Hills Avenue thank you okay good evening Mr gisler um do you have any other Witnesses with you this evening do not just you okay so why don't you tell us a little bit about what your request is and your reasons for that request absolutely uh I was granted a variance in May to put an addition on my house but I did not explicitly mention the AC condenser in that request um so when my contractor tried to get a permit for the the duct work also I was told that I'm in violation of my variants and it wasn't covered under the the wording we used for the addition so I'm here to ask you one more time for permission AC condenser the side yard which which violates the the front yard set back distance okay so clarification the addition was approved welcome back yes and um the existing is 14 and the condenser will be placed with in there's no there's um there's no extension right there's nothing that's being asked it's a little bit forward of the 14 okay and it's in the front yard so that's why the okay so I'm sorry because I'm looking at your chart here and it says that the variance that's requested is for the left side yard so now let me see what I'm looking at it's a corner lot though so it has two front yards thank you okay any questions from the members of the board I I have a question are you going to do any screening in front of it like uh some kind of shrubs or a little fence or something I plan to plant some more shrubs in front of it so you can conceal it so it's not visible from the street any other questions um sure just to figure out how to get oh there we go okay we're good now he's connected okay ahead any questions no okay um okay I will'll open it up to the public are there any members of the public I have any questions on this application n excellent um I will open up the sorry I'll open up the application to the public actually I'm sorry any questions for the applicant none now any questions or comments on the application itself seeing none okay okay I'm in favor of granting this I think that the request is administer in nature he was here before we granted it just a placement of the AC condenser and um so long as there's some sort of screening as we just discussed I am in favor so if anyone else is we can have a motion I'll make a move to approve with the uh condition that it be screened with some kind of vegetation I'll second that thank you Mr Hawkin yes Mr yes yes Mr yes Vice chair Cunningham yes and CH yes Lu very good luck um okay the next application that I'm going to call up is application 202 24-16 39 Brook Street block 710 lot 9 this is a request for a front yard varians for a front porch is the applican here good evening how are you are you we're going to swear you in do you have anyone else that is yes I have two witnesses my wife and my father who's helping build oh okay so do you want to wanted a time or you all of them will come up and speak is everyone going to speak I was going to do majority of but my father's here just in case there's more technical questions all right so let's swear you in and we'll see where it goes raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm to tell the truth do please State your full name spell your last name give your home address it's Scott Richard Marston and it's 39 Brook Street just spell the last name sorry m a r s t o n thank you very much okay floor is yours all right um so we initially applied for uh an exterior porch open uh and this it didn't meet the uh setback requirement um so we applied for the variance basically because we felt like it was more it was in line with what our community looks like we have there's a lot of enclosed porches as well as a handful of um open porches we actually have examples that we can share um see them a few copies here um so yes we're just looking to we feel like it's beneficial for us uh we already have a enclosed Boyer that we're going to be taking down so the um the part that's already built there it wouldn't be extending too much farther than what we already have it's only that we're extending uh out to what we already have as a planter um and then just basically the Clos okay any board members have any questions the uh what you are proposing to do is bigger in size or a bigger footprint than what is presently on site is that correct uh slightly yes um so we already have an enclosed foyer uh out from our front door uh so basically we've removed that and then bring out uh it would basically be a porch in instead but where we have a planter on the left side of the building basically the porch would go over that what already exists as a planter I have I have a couple questions about the Aesthetics of it yes um based on the sketches that you have I mean it looks like it's just going to be on post Pi is there going to be how was it going to look as far like typically a front porch is on some kind of decorative peers with some lattice and and it's it it looks almost like what you would see in the backyard of a house not the front of a house the way it's draw um if if I may I bring my father up to help with that he's before before you testify I need just I need just SAR you in please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth yes please State your full name spell your last name and give us your home address Thomas Marston m r s n my home address is 1934 Buchanan Street in C Pennsylvania thank you very much um yeah my daughter-in-law took pictures of a lot of the homes in the neighborhoods okay so this one picture is a perfect example so hang on so okay um the pictures that you are going to distribute because we're going to mark them into the record as an exhibit those are pictures of other homes in the neighborhood not a proposed picture of what you'll be doing and one of the pictures oh these okay those Rings these are okay yeah she took pictures of 50 different homes through NE but you do have renderings of what yeah this one rendering here is a perfect example of what okay so why don't we do the pictures and then the rendering okay so we'll start with the pictures we're going to mark that as A1 I have three copies excellent and then the rendering we're going to Mark as A2 and one other clarification I know Scott said it was a closed porch it's not it's an open cover porch I thought thought I heard him say it was okay I heard open thank you what is happening to the uh to water and because of the extra the extra coverage that actually just got redirected by the work that was done on the street last month yeah yeah we'll be there'll be there'll be a new gutter on front of the covered porch which will go into the current leader that's there now so actually we're not really adding a gutter because the gutter that's on the front of the house now is going to go away and just move to the front of the and what and uh will there be any extra water water landing on the ground that that needs to be uh that needs to be uh redirected well I don't believe any more than what's what's already happening are you going to remove that planter that's there is that what so that's what so what he's asking is now that the water goes into the ground where the planter is now it's that water that's now hitting the roof where's that going again it'll be directed into the into the current gutter system it's already there I I well okay I you're you're seeing that the the down spout is going into the planter so at this point it'll go in front of the planter so the Planter's yes the planter is going away you said you have a rendering of what it's going to look like that you're going to provide the one the one photo there in the very first page the middle one that in in white that's it's an example it's an example of what I I are you referring to the one that's next to the our main goals that's the closest okay that's the closest to what you're looking to do one that reach add PL ad Port trof sorry the picture that says ad por truth or no the following page if you look at the three homes right and we're and we're looking at the the middle one that's I think corre wrong that is what you're indicating would be the most like yes that's the closest to what we're what weing so it's not going to be like your sketch where just cot tubes and post it's it's going to have some decorative elements and Corner posts and lattice and railings on the steps and that something that we need to have shown in a drawing more than just a sketch or is this acceptable that's up to us guess I don't remember it's not necessar right typically we get an elevation like drawn really shows us what it's going to look like not right right yeah in other words from an architect doing a 3D 3D Rend 2D just something that shows well yeah the closest I guess I did to that was this drawing here of showing how the the side construction is going to be when we originally applied for the permit that would be the closest I came to that yeah yeah okay just to clarify right so it is yes there is no actual rendering so the exhibit will just be marked as A1 we won't have A2 um I have a question the water run off from the roof how is that now do you have a pipe going out to the street uh water run because when a water runs off the house to the gutters usually pipe that takes it out to right that's I I actually don't remember if his if his down spouts go into um I I don't believe in this Township you have them going into uh pipes that are going underground to the street correct I'm that's the one thing I'm I've seen that around town a lot right okay um so are you gonna um account for water run off from the roof a heavy rainstorm or snow melt uh we can certainly do that we can certainly do that you know we we could dig down and make sure it's going into that area of the Earth so it's not being distributed elsewhere the porch flooring is that going to be some sort of uh composite decking yeah tongue and Gro composite okay any other questions personally I'd like to see I'd like to see see what it's going to look like as opposed to what it's kind of going to look like and and not really having a plan of where the posts are and how the railing is going to look and how the steps are going to look um well I can certainly look into getting a three 3D rendering done okay so it sounds to me like we're going to wait for that rendering to come in so we can review that and um we'll be looking at a motion to carry this to our next meeting do you believe that you'd be able to get that together by our October meeting which would be the third week in October am I second week in October October 15 yeah I'm I'm I'm sure we probably could okay all right so we're going to look for that and I think we need a motion then move to table for one they they don't need to notice right no I'm going to we're g to Bruce will announce that in a second we have a second I'll second Mr yes yes yes yes yes okay the ma matter is being carried to October 15th any member of the public who is here on this matter there will be no further notice or publication as it's being carried on the record so you don't have to do anything further thank you thank you yeah but I'm sorry but to try to get the rendering in 10 days before so it can be part of the record thank you uh J will take it your copy Jen I didn't I didn't mark it A1 this go uh all right the next application on this evening is applic 202 24-19 40 Ruby Street block 2902 lot 40 this is a request for a lot coverage variance for an extension of a driveway is the applicant here good evening how are you come on up to the podium is that what it is um we're going to swear you in please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth nothing please keep your voice up give us your uh full name spell your last name and your home address address okay my full name is Jin orans spelling last name is o r l e a NS the address is 40 Ruby Street thank you very much welcome um Mr erlings please tell us a little bit about what you are requesting this evening and your reasons for that request okay the request is uh they did a little bit of uh extension like which is like like a like a half of a moon on the side of my driveway just to have a little bit extra parking since the family is growing and that's just you know for appeal and then at night time since you cannot park on the street I'm new in town I moved in last year and then I didn't know like you cannot park on the street you know from like 2: to 6 so I just did it but I didn't know there was like a permit required cuz the guy that was doing it was supposed to take care of everything for me and he did not get a permit so and I found out later in my mail you know there was something that was supposed to do and I do it okay how many cars do you currently fit in your driveway without the extension that is now placed on your property right now could do um excluding the garage because I have like two car garage in cyes I don't normally use it we could uh fit four cars okay members of the board any questions the material you using the material you're using for the driveway was it asphalt concrete uh it was pavers pavers yes and I did my little research with pavers water could penetrate ST which is not really going to be a answer to the you know to the area and it's it's not really that uh it's only about eight8 uh 8 ft wide by 19 you could fit only one car and I included some pictures on my application you could see the finish of it how it looks like so your goal is to leave a car parked in that that area house yeah and you know it looks nice everybody loves it in the neighborhood for some reason it just makes look nice and that's the whole purpose of it just to at night time cuz I have like two kids in college and then sometime you know schedule on enough who get to go in first go last so we had that little extra step steps right here then my daughter use it pretty much to go to school like when she wants to leave in the morning I don't have to get up and move my car so she move out did you look at possibly widening the driveway a little bit to the right so that you can just get a car there you know what it the apperance of my house if I moved it it's going to be right in front of my door and I don't want to have anything blocking my door like you know my main entrance Door this is where I had is kind of like away from that door where I did it I mean to the right to the right side of the house where to the right side you have you have about it looks like almost 10 ft that no not to the right well on the survey it says you have 9.8 ft I don't think it's to the I think probably to the left cuz my house is to the right of my land and my neighbor line is right there on the side of my driveway I can go to the right I am looking at the right survey right number 40 right maybe if you guys um cuz I know the house is facing just come out and get a card right there do you think he'd actually be able to get that out right correct I have it on the screen if You' like to is there is there a lot of vegetation there is that what it is there vegetation Mike I have a question for you is this main issue is the the lot coverage correct go from 42.5 to 43 right as far as the fact that he did use block is that it's not a it's a it's an impervious substance just like it's not designed as a it's already in place by the way yeah okay yeah so is there any issue with having three cars parked in front of the house and there any um lot coverages what controls that because I for some reason I thought there was some kind of rule about percentage coverage in front of the house or am I wrong you're thinking of another town okay sorry I understand what you're saying but what I was saying is could you do this put a car here and get a car out of the way he's showing the picture that was in the application yes right right the picture that you're looking at is part of the yes part of the application but the thing is you have already you you've installed this already yeah it it's already installed yeah Co right you guys s the picture right how do you feel about the impervious coverage increase is there any 1% it it's negligible as far as any kind of detriment it's under the threshold threshold that where would be requireed doesn't I don't have any more questions okay thank you any other questions yeah I have one um when they when they put in this part of your dve did they grade it so that the water drains out and doesn't sit there or it's on U it's like on U it's not straight it's like it's it's sitting like that well what I'm saying is because all most driveways are graded a little bit so the water goes out goes out into the street doesn't sit there go into your house is this part of the driveway greater than such that it goes out same way yesing based on it's already 4225 is the existing 1% of the existing yes I see what you're saying Steve I just don't know like I'm not an engineer right so I don't know that they could actually for the purposes of getting cars in and out I don't know if they would be able to actually Mo all them that way but okay any other questions from board from the board members not for me okay do you have any members of the public who have questions for this applicant none do we have any members of the public who wish to speak um on this application none okay we are now in deliberation have no other comments except what I did um okay is there a motion by any member of the board now we're back sorry there we go sorry about that I'll make a motion to moove application 24 20249 for lot coverage for the extension of its driveway I'll Vice chair Cunningham yes Mr yes Mr yes yes yes thank you very much thank you thank you very much have a good evening thank you okay done um okay we are going to take a 10 minute break okay uh we're going to take a 10-minute break and we're going to go off the Record and we will be back the time is now 6:34 we will see you at 6:45 e e e e e e e e e e e e thank you all right we are back on the record it is 6:40 I'm going to call up the final application this evening which is application 2024-25 lot one a request for preliminary and final site plan approval use Varian for an expansion of building at the Autoland toota do we have good evening my name is jbone I'm an attorney with the law firm of Schiller perer and Galvin PC and I represent the applicant Auto Land tonight um it's a pretty straightforward case I'm going to present three Witnesses first will be Jo CA who is a the vice president of Autoland SE seated with me then we will have have our engineer Josh Tiner following up with our planner MD um very briefly to to set the stage for the testimony um we are proposing to put an addition on the existing Toyota Showroom that will con be a place for customers who are coming for service to to come in to have their service order written up they will then be able to to wait there or or to leave the site if they want to do that the car will be shuttled back to the existing service building at the rear of the site this is intended to make things better for the customer they don't have to go back to to the the back part of the site they'll have a comfortable waiting room and that will be more carefully explained by Mr cantino so if I start I'd like to have him do you swear or affirm to tell the truth please give us your full name spell your last name and state your business address sure Joseph atina C AA and you want my business address is 170 Route 22 East Springfield New Jersey wherever the your business is that's it okay thank you you're welcome okay Mr Cina what is is your position with autland I'm the vice president and general manager of autland okay and what does autol land do on the property that's the subject of tonight's application sit down if you terrific thank you we sell new and used vehicles as well as certified Vehicles we also service and maintain those Vehicles as well as sell parts and what um Grand cars do you sell new vehicles we have Toyota Jeep and Dodge okay Ram also and in general terms because we'll get into specifics with with the professional testimony um what do you want to do that that brings you here tonight well you know it's all about improving the customer experience right so we love to say that we want to be best in town best in place Best in Show and currently right now our service facility which is basically facing Lawrence Avenue all the vehicles when the customers come in they pull down Lawrence Avenue or Fatam come around diamond and back up around and the waiting area as well as where the vehicle is serviced is currently in that building what we're looking to do is put on the addition of having a drive through connected to our existing Toyota facility so it's basically going to be a One-Stop shop they're going to be able to pull in have their car written up right there and then go into a beautiful waiting room which is going to be part which is ex existing you know part of the Toyota Showroom and have everything right there their cars will be shuttled down to the existing building and uh yeah just make it that much better for them what are the service department hours our service hours are 7:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. and um I you may have already end would you just tell the board how this will work from the the customers perspective customers is going to pull in we are going to have you know service Lanes they're going to pull right into the building service um our asms our assistant service managers will then greet the customer at their vehicle write them up okay then they will be able to proceed from that right into the customer waiting lounge if they are waiting for their vehicle if they're not waiting for their vehicle they can a either be putting into a laer vehicle we have Uber and lip services that we shuttle the the folks back and forth as well as our own shuttle service will the um addition of this service Drive increase the your need for employee or customer parking no no it's it's not going to increase the need for for employees as of right now because basically everything we're we're we're utilizing as far as employees in the existing building right now the only is going to be down there is our mechanics our dispatch and our parts personnel as far as all of our asms our service manager our office Personnel will be in the new and I we we'll go over the the professional reports in detail later but one of the one of them ask a question about where employees currently par we currently have a par in facility on Diamond Road that is right behind the uh the property so all of our employees park in that parking lot so all of the parking spaces on your site are not used by your employee correct I think that's all I have is there anything else you wanted to tell the board before I invite them to ask questions no not at all just uh thank you for allowing me to you know State we're you know looking to do here at town thank you any questions for this Witness I have one are you going to be removing any parking spaces for this addition we're not going to be removing any any parking spaces currently that we have to put this addition no and our our site engineer will go over the parking provided and required in detail but but we've got plenty of parking sounds like nothing's going to change so why do you have to even the the the the the purpose is to have the customers stay up front in the nice new building so all you're doing is moving customers you're not moving any of the uh the the service as he testified the service department will remain in its existing facility and the employees are going to park in park in the same spot yes so all you're doing as I understand it is to U Move where the customers are plac while you're doing whatever work you intend to be doing with them and and and and where the the entire customer interface will take place in the new facility correct so you're moving customers you're not moving build structure any apparatus no the service facility where the vehicles are being maintained and and serviced is still going to be done in the existing building okay this is going to be a service drive-thru and have everything in one one stop any other questions from the board members I'll give everyone a minute have a question your engineer will just go over how the process works on the site differently is that yes all right while everyone's taking a look do our professionals have any questions for this witness no great any other questions from the board at this time I'm going to open it to the public is there any member of the public that have any questions for this witness with respect to what he just stated on the record none okay thank you thank you next witness is Josh triner thank you thank you please raise your right hand do you swear or referb to tell the truth I do please State your full name spell your last name give your business address Joshua Tiner t i ner 433 North a East Westfield and um the documents that you handed out were those previously part of the application or one one or two might be okay why don't why don't we then Mark the whole packet of is it eight pages um as A1 thank you actually I think it's nine pages nine pages okay thank you okay Mr Tiner let's start with um telling the board a little bit about your educational and Licensing and professional experience I uh graduated from Penn State University in 1995 with a bachelor's degree in science and civil engineering um was licensed as a professional engineer in 2003 I've testified and been qualified before dozens of boards throughout the state of New Jersey some in New York um I've actually testified before this board on this property um back a few years ago for a smaller project and um my license is current mam chairwoman I offer Mr Tiner as an expert in engineering any members of the board have any objections I haven't heard any questions or comments about licensing and uh did I I miss he did and he said it is current in good standing thank you uh you are qualified as a professional in engineering so please proceed thank you okay great so um let me just run through some information about the property OB this first sheet you're going to Mark the whole all of them together I suppose is that what you said as just A1 as a pack okay great yep is this too loud am I too close to the mic no it's excellent okay good thank you yep so this site is located at 170 Route 22 East Springfield New Jersey um as you heard from the applicant that they're the owner operator on the site um the tax lot in question is Springfield Township block 3703 lot one um referring to this first page of the marked exhibit um this is just a an aerial photograph of the property the property is marked in red that's the site the blue line is a zoning line just so you can see that there's a zoning line that cuts through the property um this site is on it fronts on Route 22 on the top part of this sheet which is the north side Lawrence Road is to the to the left and the or the west and then Diamond Road fronts the site to the South um the HZ the HC zone is the highway highway commercial Zone that's what the north half of the site is on which permits this use automobile Services as a conditional use and we do comply with the five conditions required to be a compliant use but in the I40 Zone which is to the South this is a not permitted use which is why we're before this board um so that just gives an orientation of the site you can also see that there's three buildings on the property um the building furthest to the right is the cdjr aspect of the brands that they provide car dealership with the the one in the center which says site on it that that's the main existing Toyota franchise building and then off to the left is what's the service and parts building um that at one point I think had a dealership in it as well um in a distant past so there's really several ways onto the property there's one off of Route 22 which is um kind of difficult to see there but it's it's the main entrance off of Route 22 um that's that would be one that would be required by dot ngj do if we were to change something associated with it just for the record we did get a letter of no interest related to this application from njdot um and then if you came down Lawrence Road the first curb cut there to the if you you would make a left in if you were coming from u22 down Lawrence Road that's how people currently get to drop their cars off for service um that you would make a left in there and then kind of drive around to the back of that building and enter and drop your vehicle off on the inside that building and then they would do the service you would have there's a small waiting location inside there's also another curb cut location off of Lawrence Road a little further down that's kind of lets you into a parking area for where people could buy parts but I understand it's mostly wholesale parts that are sold there there's not really many customers there to buy parts um that actually drives through and there's a loading dock there on that building so a truck could back into that building and then they drive through and exit out onto Diamond Road um so that's a there's another curb cut there then there's another one off a diamond Road where the main security is so any inventory vehicles and whatnot that come into the property really come in through the back there off of Diamond Road there's a gated entrance there and then there's another place where which I think is usually remains gated but there's another curb cut off of the at the corner the lower right hand corner of Diamond Road so this is a large property um a lot of space it's it's got a it's 19.4 Acres so that's like 845,000 Square ft and um so we have all those different uh access points and then the the the site is already been improved over the decades with pave parking Landscaping lighting signage there's signage all over this property and then there's security fencing and the interesting part just as came up in some of the review security fencing comes off of the the like upper leftand corner of the Toyota dealership building and goes sort of perpendicular away from the building and up toward Route 22 and then fence follows um that part of the the property to the left and really secures everything from the back so there's no really customer through traffic available at any time on this property from the front parking areas and to the back you would have to go through gated fences and um they don't really want customers going from the front to back so it's anytime it's open it's typically just employees moving vehicles um so most of what they want in terms of customer associated with the sales of the cdjr and the Toyota is in the front parking and and some inventory parking is available up front and um the service had always traditionally been then well for the cdjr isn't a cdjr building off to the right but for the Toyota the service was all done in that building adjacent to Lawrence road so I guess we could turn to the second page which is labeled R2 it's page two of this A1 marked exhibit this is a colorized rendering of what we're proposing to do here um everything that's light tan is an existing building to remain the there's a sort of orange for concrete there's light green for or off shade p p colored green it's existing grass areas that are remaining um darker gray as changes new pavement um which a portion of that is an overlay Mill and overlay and then you can see the darker brown building that's the addition that was called for the service drive to give us this new functionality um that they're looking to do inside that uh let's just talk about that that's a 7,294 ft building Edition so all the build buildings remain as is in terms of footprint except for that 7,000 is addition off to the left um so what's happening here in this the functionality inside this this building well as everybody knows on the modern car dealerships when people are dropping off their cars for service they're mainly coming into an interior space dropping off staying inside able to walk over to some desks for service writers they um take the order or figure out what the needs are there's also going to be an interior renovation of like if you see how there's like three sort of notches on that Toyota building that third Notch to the left of the light tan part of the building that's currently like a fairly vacant open space because prior years there was a Scion dealership that occupied that part of it they had that brand that they were selling out of that area and um so it's been an open space they haven't for about eight years as I understand it had that that car dealership here um so that's going to be retrofit for some offices and whatnot but mainly for the customer experience so there's going to be a lot of open space for customers to sit um peruse maybe get some snacks whatever they spend a lot of money on coffee under every month I understand it so um so there's two Drive indoors for our service drive for each each um when people drop off their car there's two more overhead head doors just for storage that are in the back of that building um if you're looking at the dark brown part like the lower right hand part there you see the the squares with the ex's to it are what I call like the overhead doors that's where like people can drive into the building through an overhead door so there's two back there they're more for storage and part things that they um like they're going to keep like uh like an like a plow type vehicle not a plow but like a small vehicle I guess Joe could tell me what was is small vehicles that they could like move salt around and stuff like that um but then the four doors that are overhead doors for the for the service drop off are there it's clear it's a rectangular portion of that building so what's the circulation anticipated to be at this site well we're coming off of Route 22 they're going to teach and educate their clients over time pretty quickly I think with some mailers or whatnot to understand that they're no longer are going to be coming down Lawrence Road to get to the Service drop they're going to come in off of Route 22 just like people do when they're coming in for sales and service and we've got uh we're we're restriping and redoing things so that it's very clear that there's um a single Lane there's going to be adequate signage that's really clear about where you're going for Toyota service you're going to come down this Lane um I don't know if you can see it but there's two lanes of traffic going back and forth across from parking spaces up against the building a row of parking across from there that's mainly going to be for customers um I don't know if you want to zoom in there Jennifer maybe that would could maybe help it's you're zoom in go a little more like kind of get the dark gray centered on there yeah so so in front of the main building there's there's a drive all there's all this parking there for customers um but people that come in for service they're pretty much going to come in and they're going to make a right it's it would be they'd travel to the left and then it as you get down to the end of that straightway it would open up to two lanes for getting into the service um service Drive um the fence that we had talked about before and and so then most of this paved area um off to the left is now it's it's like an existing motor vehicle service grally area that's inside the fence um a part of that half of that there's a fence that's going to go perpendicular off the side of the the building there and it's going to maintain that secure area off to the to the the uh plan South Side generally speaking and there won't be a fence in the front yard toward Route 22 anymore um and we've striped out that area just for the inventory parking that they'd have out there for now um it was already more or less inventory anyway it was just not striped it was on gravel and um again as we've talked about earlier this is we're not really intensifying the use here at all it's it's the same service function but it's happening in a different way that's the whole purpose of why we're here um we can move on to just a brief discussion of architectural and this will actually also help the next page of the uh well it was for you Jen would be a different exhibit it's probably the ones that are numbered three through 3 4 five six yes so this gives you a view of that's what that area looks like now um if you kind of hovering over Route 22 and looking into where this is where the Scion dealership was at one point that's kind of a vacant part of the building if you just move to the next one this is a 3D colorized rendering of how that's going to change with our service Drive Entrance um so you clearly see that that's these are backwards of how they are in my packet the uh packet had the other one the closer ones first and second so if you go to the next one Jen this is the first one you see in the packet which is kind of like giving you a bigger view of the of the building and the next one would just be how that addition kind of plays off and so we have our lanes here driving in and that's how people would go in to drop off their car um so architecturally this is uh going to be consistent with the the natur the feel of the existing building um it's also going to be on three sides of this this all three sides of the addition are going to be nicely finished to match um the interior Renovations I I mentioned are part of the application to increase that improve that customer experience um so I guess I I'm going to talk through the bulk requirements of this property just to put it all on the record um we I could go through that faster if the board would prefer and kind of just talk about which ones really they're we're all pretty much either compliant or existing non-conformities other than um really the uh the max impervious coverage which we actually we're in existing non-conformity that we've improved by slightly adding a little bit of more green space in the property just because you know some of the there's a larger green space in the back there behind the there's like a wedge a triangular wedge of Green Space you can see across from where they currently Drive in off of Lawrence Lawrence Road so I kind of really talked through the site circulation um in terms of parking total required parking from a zoning perspective is based on this being of retail use and the calculation reveals that we would need 772 parking spaces um our site plans have 587 strip spaces and then significantly more adequate unstriped parking spaces where we also Place inventory um really for the purposes of the need um we had created the the exhibit that is also in the p pcket called P1 this is actually in your application drawings as well which just kind of breaks down generally where like inventory is customer parking is um where where service Vehicles would be parked while they're being serviced throughout the property and it was just kind of Mike Mr disco we we were kind of communicating a little bit about it and we thought it'd be helpful based on his review letter and um the fact that ADA parking and EV parking really should be requirements based on the number of customer parking spaces not really the entirety of parking on a property as a whole especially when you're talking about inventory having to park Ada vehicles for inventory parking isn't how the how the process works so we put this exhibit together to just bring some clarity to that um Our intention is to comply with Ada um we have compliant aisle width compliant parking space sizes um um we did uh Mike Mike's comment number 11 on one of his letters just mentions how Ada there should be some closer to the um area where we're going to be dropping off where the drop off doors are so we're going to reconfigure that as a condition of approval if the board so chooses to approve this application um I think there's just got to be some Ada and a quick access into the the man door or person door that gets you in next to the uh Overhead Doors by the service drive inside the building there's a lift just like currently over by not this closest entrance but the entrance off to the left where you mainly would go into the Toyota sales room there's a like a lift like an exterior elevator for Ada access from parking um so uh what else with parking there's EV parking requirements um in the reviews that we received we talked about eight EV parking spaces not being adequate but we've actually gone and looked at the site and talked to the client and they've already had um 10 EV parking spaces there we're also going to be supplementing with these eight these eight are going to be installed day one as a part of the construction they not being installed as Make Ready they're going to put the EV parking in right away um so there'll be 18 EV parking spaces that's electrical vehicle if uh that wasn't already clear um it was mentioned I think during the uh the owner's testimony just how the employee parking takes place off site across Diamond Road I understand it's been they've been doing that since the 1980s um on that P1 exhibit you can see the property that they own it's it's not labeled as what a lot it is but that's where the employee parking is and has been there's also an off-site refu container they have on that property so that's really where they they managed people the the cleaning crews bring all the clean uh refu over to the lot on the other side of Diamond Road and that's what they've been doing for decades um one of the items in the review that requires relief is stacked parking there's just this one stretch over there I guess if we yeah to the uh lower left it's shown as green inventory parking um of the the lower left of the new parking area there you can see how there's parking spaces that don't have a Drive aisle on both sides of it we call that stacked parking that's inventory parking car dealerships do this all the time um but your ordinance is very specific that you don't allow for uh stacked parking so we're asking for relief for that that um they can park a couple deep with with their uh some of the inventory Vehicles as they're storing them and Etc uh what else with parking the the whole purpose was to yeah I just just wanted to reiterate that this is like a in addition to the Improvement for the uh the customer experience we are kind of improving and beautifying this property with just a clean pavement over where there was a gravy motor vehicle service surface in the past um and so that's going to be beneficial and that it's not really intensifying the use this is about um that additional parking that we are proposing was really just to clarify and make it so that the circulation is more functional and how and how they store some inventory um loading was one of the topics in the reviews and um we had resubmitted prior when we didn't have the last hearing there's a sheet S2 in the application Pro uh documents that uh now reflects three loading areas that that are there which didn't even actually show the loading docks on the other door so there's plenty of loading space in fact better than almost any car dealership I've ever been to if you see in the lower right hand corner there's like a dedicated driveway for a vehicle the the car loading vehicles to not do it on the street so they actually offload vehicles from the the car carriers on their property in a dedicated drop off Lane that many car dealers try to get away with just doing it in the street um so other vehicles of or features of Note the uh Service drop off queuing is more than adequate in our opinion we not only have the ability to fit up to eight Vehicles inside of the drop off area we can stack and queue many many cars deep in that lane it approaches coming off of Route 22 or we don't think they would ever be a stacking problem or a queuing problem with vehicles not to mention that when people are going to drop off their car they typically make an appointment and so they know how to time that they don't get overwhelmed with vehicles coming in for service um at any given time um refu management I mentioned is takes place across Diamond Road I talked about the fence so that fence does require relief that I I guess if you go back to the the photograph gen of the you can see the fence as it currently is um not on the rendering but the photograph yeah one of those two yeah you see the fence so it's coming off the corner of the building coming out toward that one existing sign then it kind of wraps around so that fence is gone that fence is an existing non-conformity because you're not allowed to have a fence in the front yard like that but um we're going to continue requesting a non-conformity or relief from the fence in the front yard but now the front yard is off of Lawrence because our fence is in the front yard off of Lawrence um drainage our drainage strategy um is to you know create a a safe and efficient conveyance of storm water it's it's going to be an improvement over what's there now um it kind of catch it's into gravel and and whatnot so now'll be paved it'll be captured um there's going to be some modest storm water management just to comply with all the New Jersey storm water regulations um we our intent has been in our conversations with Mr disco to comply with everything and so we did resubmit a drainage report recently if he had any further questions going into resolution compliance we intent to comply with whatever requirements he had for drainage um lighting the intent of lighting that this site as you can see in the photographs has pretty significant lights these big tall white lights um that are I don't believe they're LED um we're going to propose LED lighting across the entire of the parking lot we're not changing the lights in the back but we're going to change the lights in front of the building and all the way in front of the cdjr building just so that they match so that the front parking lot will have a consistent feel for all users that come to the property um Landscaping we have some modest Landscaping proposed the existing site has you know it's there's you can see actually in the photos there's some Landscaping along the edge of the pavement that's all intended to remain we're going to add a few um trees and shrubs here or there that was our goal um the goal of a car dealership is to not damage their cars on curbs and stuff inside of islands and whatnot in parking lots so we try to avoid that with car dealership so we need a some relief from uh some of the Landscaping requirements U that are for a large parking lot and so we're requesting that um utilities electric water gas there at one point in earlier review um there was some and maybe confusion that we thought there look like there would might be a Transformer the transformer for the building is actually not in front of the building it's to the side in between the two buildings the the one for the other building the cdjr building is on the other side of the cdjr building so there's no Transformer in the front yard um which we had thought that there or there maybe was an an implication that there was going to be one possibly but this addition is going to get its electrical service off of the electrical service that's already feeding the building and um so that's that's how that will be powered um the sanitary sewer service there's no new sanitary but the calculations since you have a larger footprint require that you um are T technically generating more sewage so we have to get a an approval from the raway valley sewage Authority uh we which we will do other outstanding outside approvals were um the so Conservation District Somerset Union and Union County both of those we've gotten and I mentioned the NJ doot uh letter of no interest that we got um and the biggest other thing to talk about is probably signage so the this site this property has a lot of signs and um you know it's a little bit of a challenge to follow it all so I did there is a signage plan in the set but I brought an exhibit here tonight it's se1 which can you can see all the existing signs that on the site we made that drawing with little pictures of each one um a good portion of these are going away some of them are remaining and um and then we're going to have so two new building mounted signed signs which you can see on the architectural pictures from before one of them says Service drive one of them says service entrance that's because the people would walk in to the service entrance or service reception I mean I said service entrance service Drive is where you drive up service reception is where you could walk up into the service seating area but you can also get there obviously through the inside if you were in the service drive and then there's going to be like um 14 proposed freestanding signs one of them is a a tall sign it's um a Toyota brand sign that is 20 let me just find that it's 29 ft tall I believe 29' 8 in I think is what it is and the limit for sign height is 22 feet um so that one's proposed and then all the rest of those free standing signs are basically directional signs that which which helped to clarify I guess if you moved on to the other sign drawing which is a colorized rendering of what's in the package in terms of the signage plan um you know the these signs are helping people understand oh if I go this way I get to sales if I go this way I go to service oh if I want to go to service I keep going that way if I if I'm out on Lawrence Road there's some old signs they're like they look like they're on plywood that got painted like now these are going to be nice brand looking signs that are kind of just replacing the same signage it's out there more or less other than reducing any confusion that there could be while you're driving around the parking lot um so signage is a big deal so after all said and done this is my opinion of what variance relief is required for the application from 35-14 automo Sales and Service are not permitted in the I40 Zone 35-14 Highway commercial District Max lock coverage is 63% we have an existing non-conformity which is improved but it's still at 92.9% the I40 dist District General the ma maximum lock coverage is 72% and within the I 40 portion 81.3% is the existing non-conformity with no change not Chang what's out there but it's existing nonconformity from 3514 attachment One Max accessory height of 15 ft with an existing 19 or 19 foot 9 in existing nonconformity on structure on site from 35221 c.2 no fence permitted in the front yard that's an approved ex6 nonconformity I'm going to call it an improvement because it's not like out by 22 it's slightly over by Lawrence Avenue from 35 235b no driveway or parking area in any non-residential District shall be closer than 5 ft to a side or rear property line there's an existing non-conformity because we're close to the property line with some of our parking around the site in non-changed ways um yeah so it's not changing it's just existing nonconformity uh from 35- 23.8 refu Storage is located off site and that would technically I think be an existing nonconformity we don't have like trash enclosures on the property they bring everything over to the other site as they have since 1980 Something from 35- 241g Landscaping all parking areas providing at least 10 parking stalls shall provide the following Landscaping features and from G1 5% of the Interior portion of said parking areas excluding all perimeter landscaping and required buffer areas shall be landscaped and no more than 15 parking stalls shall exist in a continuous row without a landscaping break this is an existing non-conformity that's appropriate to a car dealership that we're continuing to request relief for um even though we're here with a new application from 35-24 G1 dog3 the ends of all parking roads should be separated from access aisles by Landscaping Island at least 4T in width without a landscape Break um again not Conformity that we're hoping to continue under this application uh G5 of that same section of the code Evergreen and other appropriate planting shall be required to separate parking areas from public rways um this is an existing nonconformity um along the public right away in the road we do have some trees and we're providing some new Street trees but specifically along Route 22 um where which is the main visibility to inventory they they wouldn't want to put screening buffering from the road the car dealership uh wants to have visibility to their inventory uh from cars driving by 22 so we need a relief from that there from 35241 H uh sidewalk shall be maximum of 6 feet we have some existing non-conformities of sidewalks that are more than 6 feet on the property um from 251b the light of uh driveway similar locations 6 foot candle while all parking areas should provide an average illumination of 0.4 foot candles our foot candles are um in excess of that they were in excess of that in the existing condition as a car dealership they will light up their inventory um we're going to continue that with what we've proposed um from 35- 251b lights to automatically shut off at 10 p.m. with the exception of security lighting you can argue that this isn't necessarily relief required but they are leaving the lights on from DUS to Dawn they consider all the lights they don't just turn off some they're leaving all of the lights on for security purposes this is a expensive inventory that they want to have um well lit they want their their their property to be safe and secure and visible and deterring um other people you know whatever criminals I guess so um again from the surrounding uses and adjacencies I don't see any issue with that personally that there not going to be a negative impact to any surrounding use planner will probably speak to that a little more from 35- 25.4 Street trees to be provided in all developments at intervals not more than 50 ft again we do do some Street trees along Lawrence Road but we're not proposing new ones um along Route 22 so that's uh relief that we need from 35-31 do8 b.8 a science and Commercial districts um each automo be dealership permitted one freestanding sign for each 100 fet of Road Frontage along Route 22 provided that the number of freestanding signs shall not exceed the number of different franchises located on a property and that the freestanding signs are separated by at least 100 ft um we are not conforming with that we have I the existing did not conform with that and we are just adding more signs most of the signs that were proposing here are not very tall very big they're there for directional purposes um other than that one large freestanding sign but um what we plan to have remain coupled with what we're proposing it's not going to comply with that requirement um 35-31 8B 8A signs and Commercial District um oh oh I skipped over one no no 8 b8b signs in commercial districts the maximum area of any single freeing sign shall be 75 Square ft existing signs do not conform with that the new proposed signs uh especially the the large one will not conform with that um but it's consistent with the other car dealership signs that are regularly in this area and on this property from 35-31 8B 8 C freestanding Max height 22 feet with a 7 foot clearance from the ground again this 29' 8 in high sign does not have clearance below it either so it exceeds the height limit by 7 feet about and does not have it's not like a pylon sign it's it's the whole sign itself goes all the way to the ground 35-31 8b8 D freestanding sign setback 10 ft from the lot line and 15 ft from the pavement line there's some existing signs that are really right close to and right on the property line and that's going to continue to remain um our new sign that large one is actually set back more than 10 F feet but I'm just putting that on the record and then from 35- 33.4 Doc stacked parking prohibited um which I mentioned I explained the Stacked parking it's industry standard for C deal ships to put inventory and stack parking so um moving on to the review letters I we received and reviewed Mike disco's engineering memos sted 8:16 2024 and an updated 9:15 2024 respectively and we've had conversations with Mike um associated with the project and resolution compliance we anticipate we will generally comply with all the comments um I believe I've testified to all the engineering topics required in his memo during my direct testimony but I'm welcome to talk more about whatever and um we reviewed the harbor Consultants memo data8 16 2024 and will gener comply with all their comments as well um I believe I testified to all the engineering items the only ones I want to note would be comment F5 which notes the excessive signage and I just want to reiterate that there's no um there is new brand sign along the highway but most of the other freestanding signs are directional and important based on the various changes to the new customer experience and how they'll circulate and to so they know where they are going and how to get to where they need to go and then regarding item F7 the comments on Landscaping um to reiterate I think that this site's Landscaping is actually pretty good for the area um you know the the a lot of these sites Don't Have Much landscaping at all there's decent Green Space Between the parking lot and Route 22 and along all the edges is um pretty good buffering and they spent a lot of money recently to put in like River Rock Landscaping instead of mulch in certain location so they definitely want their customers to feel like it's a nice uh property and they they do do what it takes to make it look nice um but the comments are that it feels like it could use more so we're willing to work with the Planner on some reasonable things if if that if the board would like us to generally speaking I'd like to not add islands and Landscaping in the main field of the parking area and we certainly wouldn't want to create a buffer or screen from Route 22 and I think that's pretty much my direct testimony so in summary if the board would Grant the uh approval we anticipate the ability to comply with all the other comments thank you members of the board any questions for the engineer you're not on okay there you go how are the signs going to be illuminated how inside how are the signs going to be illuminated oh the signs um some will have some internal illumination not really on the exterior and and some it's mostly happening during the day so it's the the lighting itself reason I ask is sometimes people are driving and the sign the lights for the signs are disruptive to people driving by in the yeah there won't be like like ground lights shining up onto the signs it's they're they're internally illuminated um to the extent that we illuminate them a couple other questions what happens when somebody goes down Lawrence Road wrong way now because they're used to it is there an easy way for them to yeah well that was what was important about some of the signs that we put so like if you if you were to look at exhibit R3 which is the signage plan it if you come down there's a sign that kind of says Hey There is a night drop over here still um there's part signs there's signs that tell you that Toyota Ser this sign right here says Toyota service off Route 22 they want people to see that sign that it's basically letting them know that if you're going to go if you're going to come here for service you got to go off of Route 22 um so what they'll have to learn over time is that you don't drop off the car where you used to um there's going to be well that gate that was there that they opened every day will stay closed now so people won't be going up that way and they'll probably just come down Lawrence Road and then make the left into the site and drive up that um sort of like bypass aisle there and then come back out and go back to Lawrence Road and back on a 22 so they'll definitely have to learn that over time how at all will your lighting imp act on ad joining property or on traffic I think lighting is going to be better uh we're using 18 foot poles and um it's LEDs it's going to be pointing down uh the lighting on route22 is pretty substantial in general um for anybody that grew up around here I remember coming home on a vacation away once got the Union in Route 22 I was like oh Dad you're waking me up did you do any testing to see whether it impacts on the joining property um no I didn't do any any testing we just did the modeling of the proposed lighting with the lighting software are are there are there any adjoining residentially used properties no it's all other commercial and Industrial uses will it overwhelm joining property I don't think it's going to overwhelm a joining property I think it's probably an improvement over what's existing now honestly you base that on what they're they're taller lights now there's significant lights it's it's going to be comparable to what it is now but we aren't our poles aren't as tall um so there's there's maybe a few more lights to create that brightness but it's just not you amplify that more lights it does say that again so can you amplify or clarify what the few more lights will do to adjoining Properties or Highway well the the the goal at the property lines in the right away was to not really increase anything from existing and uh certainly adjoining properties back off a diamond or anything off of uh to the east or nothing's changing off of the back lighting it's it's in the front so the lighting is for expressing an opinion but you're not telling me what it's based on um I guess the answer is well see my problem in trying to answer your question truthfully is that I didn't model the existing lighting I only know what the proposed lighting is but I'm concerned with what you're proposing to put in not what not what's there oh yeah well what's proposed I I personally feel like it's it's appropriate for the use it's it's going to be fine it's not going to cause any any problems question is how it affects other properties in the area I don't think it affects I don't I don't personally professionally think it affects other properties it now did did somebody asking is on what do you base that opinion just professional experience and opinion how do do you know what the light level will be spilling onto adjacent property I I don't have that in my exhibits I can pull out the plans and refer them and refresh myself but I'm not I don't have it memorized at the moment so I I I I would suggest that that would this be part of something that that he can look up while I'm presenting the planner's testimony no we'll bring with that as long as he can answer okay I can definitely answer I just don't have the exhibit in front of me that's I guess that's why I was I just had a uh questions um there was when somebody is picking up their car maybe I don't know if it's better for you how do how do the mechanics I know how you drop it off but how does somebody pick up their car they're still going to come to the service reception area to get their car BR back through yeah and well they will do that you know what the one thing I didn't talk about is that there is a new proposed curb cut onto Lawrence Avenue and so when they leave they will come out follow the signage and they'll leave out onto Lawrence Avenue so the service people will bring the car back service people will right when they come and say I'm here for my car Ser someone from service will bring it and so they continue through and go right and they pick it up on the inside side and then they drive out onto Lawrence and then lastly which um I think is an important safety thing to consider is you it doesn't look like there's any pedestrian walkways or anything so I imagine if that Big Lot that you're putting up on the top uh close to 22 that people maybe would want to walk there and look at the cars um it doesn't seem like there's any safe pedestrian crosswalks you might want to think about providing some maybe some stop signs and some crosswalks so that people can safely cross from where their where the customers are over to where the cars are displayed because doesn't it doesn't look like there's any way to safely get across yeah I have no objection to working with Mike disco and coming up with a you know it looks like probably there would be a way to add a pedestrian crosswalk stripe it in you know there's there are a lot of stop signs and stuff over there but maybe a pedestrian walk so that there'd be a way to get over and you feel like it's a safer way right would know where to go across to get to where the car if they're going to get over there to look at inventory and whatnot kind of you just kind of walk across the road there right so that's just a suggestion yeah know to expand on what you were saying maybe put some signage up um pedestrian walkway or watch out for pedestrians or something like that to make who's ever driving there aware that there's a crosswalk there where people be walking there so just added safety yeah I'm comfortable with coming getting together with Mike afterwards and talking about what that would be question for what was the idea behind bringing that service traffic up in front to where typically your sales traffic would be now you're going to have coming through the front your service traffic in an area which is typically busy anyway with with your sales activity Mo most car deal I mean obviously he could come back up and testify as the owner but most car dealerships have that all that functionality integral to one building so it's very common and normal for yes you have your sales service part everything's all in one one place and so um that's kind of what I think the industry is probably moving in that direction of creating that consistent condition where everybody's maybe it's while people are I would suppose maybe if I was being a salesperson that You' be servicing your vehicle and you'd want people to be able to be close to the sales maybe so it creates the opportunity for that I suppose but I just think it's it's probably one of the things that the brands are they want the whole thing integral into one building it's so one of the brand goals but I'm I don't have a full answer bringing that traffic in front of their sales uh Center kind of just doesn't make much sense to me I mean bringing can added traffic in front of what would be Contin like we saying before with pedestrian traffic looking at cars and they're basically coming right through the middle of where you would say cars would be on display and there would be a lot of pedestrian traffic and maybe we can quantify the number of anticipated service well you know funny you mention that because right now our service business has decreased you know at one time we were doing you know customer pay repair orders maybe you know 3,000 repair orders a month which you know after Co you know we're down to somewhere around 1,500 or so this whole idea and the facility I mean it's the new way of all the other dealerships are going too as far as creating more traffic if I may just go back to one of the questions you asked where the customer is going to their vehicles everything is going to be sh so exactly where the customer leaves their car in the morning is where they're going to pick that vehicle up whether it be in the afternoon the following day wherever the case is it's one stop they're only going to be in that one section customer will never have any other uh reason to be down in the existing building way we areer right now um as far as additional traffic will create more you know traffic coming through the main you know Gateway yes but with that said it's also going to alleviate the traffic that we see right now on Lawrence Road okay and customers having to walk from the service facility where is at now to the existing sales facility right because when you look at from where the one building is to where the existing you know showroom is right now know it's a pretty good walk so you know you're taking them out of the element whether it's the rain the snow you know the dampness you know the cool weather the you know 100 degre heat waves we experience so we're just trying to give them an experience of they come in they have the comfortableness of being in one showroom one service facility as far as how are they going to know where we're at we do a phenomenal job with our staff of presenting everybody exactly knowing where the service department is knowing where the parks department is we're going to be doing you know ample training on letting people know exactly where the new facility is going to be where they're going to be dropping the because most of our business is built on repeat and referral business we've been there since 1968 we're a pillar in the community people know aand you hear the 1800 order land you know people from all over the place understand and know where we're at that's kind of my point because you are a very busy facility wish we wish we were a little bit bus to be honest with you to me I I get the idea of adding a customer experienced Lounge per se like why wouldn't that have been part of to me adding that to the ex existing service area you know extending that building to a to accommodate you know you know a customer experience as opposed to on the side of the sales building because I just don't like the idea of adding that traffic in front of what's would be considered sales I know what you're saying there but if you remember when we first started where the just where the new waiting area is going to be that was another franchise in itself that was a Scion dealership but it was a sales deal right right so you didn't you you had customers coming in and parking and then looking here you're going to have customers coming in trafficking you know evident you know possibly you know some sort of backup at some point in time not every single time they'll be cars waiting to get you know queed through service but I just think that that's you know being in front of the you know an area where it's highly concentrated for sales that you know doesn't make much sense to me you know that's again that's the way that dealerships are are being designed at this point in time you know we're on a footprint that's been there for for so long we're just trying to improve and make it a better destination for everybody I guess to Mark's point though like the configuration it's towards 22 where it could possibly be pushed even attached to the building but pushed to the I don't am I calling it the rear towards Diamond so that queuing doesn't occur where pedestrians would be looking at the vehicle inventory is that I I think that's really for the end engineer that's a question for the engineer I mean I mean they wanted they wanted the customers to be able to drop their service off through the front and this there's one existing curb cut off of Route 22 and we aren't moving the curb cut you know what I mean like the way onto the property and it's beyond where the main customer parking would be so generally speaking the customers yes some might look at inventory some will come into the building but um yeah I think it's actually it's still a good circulation pattern for what we're working with on the existing site it's uh really giving us what we need um there's really plenty of stacking for it and um yeah and you're you're showing stacking for quite a number of cars but that's just to show that you could stack yeah just to show how many you know that you have but besides the ones that are in the building you already have six right there in front um you know plus s well 10 really before the break right and then additional can go in that one lane that's that's coming off further that'll be a mixture of customers that are going for sales and some of that coming for service but mostly our signage directs the sales people to come straight into the sales area parking but you know just because there are 10 Vehicles pictured there that's not going to be the the usual condition that you've got 10 Vehicles always waiting to get into that building okay so let's talk about that then so our our our service by appointment most of the services that come in or by appointment we have a service BDC Center that sets up the appointments they're staggered 10 times we have nine asms currently right now which they stagger their appointment so you're never going to have a situation like that and if I may you're seeing two lanes just a little closer to the mic sorry you're seeing two lanes in there but if I'm not mistaken there's actually going to be room for three lanes well inside inside the reason we bumped that out a little more is that you they could actually keep like fit a few more cars like there's three lanes inside the building for vehicles you probably see that on a architect tal floor plan and we're going to have valet con we do have the architect here who can talk a little too so at any given time for an appointment how many vehicles would you anticipate coming into the service department I would say anywhere from four to six every maybe half hour or so and the testimony was that you could fit how many cars inside the building is they're pulling up I'm sorry how many cars can you fit inside the service area as are pulling in inside that service Drive is it's eight right Roberto it's in the build in the building in the building the building cuz there's three in each lane and two on that lane to the right yeah nine the other the other point to um keep in mind that most of the service are dropped off early in the morning before sales opens I don't know you could tell me if that's the truth yeah so like there's not really that overlap of the people queuing so much they're they're there early in the earlier in the morning dropping off their cars and then at what time service begins at 7:30 sales opens up at 10:00 but we I mean you'll have customers that are coming in on the sales end of it but most of your business and sales is done midafternoon until you know to night time as opposed to service where it's you know mostly in the morning they want to drop the vehicles off prior to going to work or whatever the case is and then you know service workers stop working at five or six yeah and sales goes till 10 or something nine what so you're saying that it's two lanes going in but this we can fit three across once you get inside that's I I don't have any problem with it my my my biggest concern was going back to it's it that road there it this the way it separates the parking for the customers and where the cars are on display I think you just really think about how to make that safer yeah I think a pedestrian walk right there would be really good like cutting diagonally across there and it just creates a way with it and now towards the front maybe another way maybe another one yeah because I mean there's a lot of cars on Long Route 22 that people may want to right people were coming off 22 there and you know I could see that being a problem yeah also I've looked at the lighting plan I mean the the lighting at the front property line it's never really exceeding seven full candles that's not very intense and uh so you know my opinion is that it's it's not going to be a nuisance to adjacencies sorry any other questions from the board I just have one the oversized um new structure 19 feet it's 22 feet where is that sign oh the the sign yeah okay so I think it was 29 29 yeah it exceeds the 22 so and this opens up in the's in the set signage plan sheet n um I guess so yeah it's from from this the driveway entrance off of Route 22 1 2 3 three four five six seven 8 nine there's 10 parking spaces and then a a striped out spot for a sign that's the existing go to the next the uh maybe there's the other signage plan yeah if you zoomed in near 20 Route 22 Yeah if you zoom in a little further those there's those 10 spaces is adjacent to and it kind of pulls out and shows that sign so it's all the way out it's it's in a parking space it's it's in next to the parking space so that if you yeah to the left a little or yeah slide it a little further to the left see that AB the ab is pulling up to say s 16 C Patterson sign group detail and then that's side a side B that's the tall one it might not look so big on this exhibit but that's the taller one and then there's that a small one which is sign one which is sales entrance and it's pointing to the right so like anyone coming up 22 would see a sign that kind of says hey we come in here now and if you were to go to the existing gazia you can see like the the signs that look like they're from like willly Wonka's Chocolate Factory movie they're like really old and they're going to be going away but at that height does that block anything else if you have any other signs since it's so so hi say that again does it block anything else no it's not it's not blocking any visibility it's just it's just tall but it's it's in the parking lot did you want to go to the other uh existing one again real quick you could just see the no the the sign one they're they're trying to create a consistency of their directional signs so like where is the old yeah yeah if you zoom in up by the road you can see pictures of the signs like that sales entrance one that's one that's going away and being replaced with a brand type of sign and then there's another sales ENT like that one they're they're going away they're going to be there's going to be more consistent signage related to the Toyota side so that you know it's just an improvement of like a mitch mishmash of types of signs and they're going to be it's going to pop like that so these are all just old rectangular signs any further questions okay Mike okay um I'll quickly go through my memo I believe he touched on really everything and um in the grant scheme of a of a site plan this is a reduction in lot coverage so from a municipal level really no concern he talked about the fence so it's a replacement fence along Lawrence decorative we have multiple uh car dealerships in we've listened or not necessarily this board but the other board three applications two for performance test what land is here so we have a lot of experience I'm thankful for the additional Ada closer to this facility so I think if Jen could just bring up the proposed photograph schematic which shows par lot one thing we could consider I think Mr Tiner touched on it a little bit but um that one work you'll see you'll see a lot of those islands are stried as opposed to a green Green Island and even on the broad colorized version you see a lot of green there so I think he touched on it that they don't like to do Greenery in those islands for whatever reason certainly um there's a lot of cross striping cross hatching for aisles my fear is that other vehicles are going to appear before in those striped aisles we see the other dealerships quite frankly as inventory comes in and certainly maybe not now postco at this point but we've had times where the inventory they just find any place they can put them so every time there's an opportunity that's a striped ey could appear there the way whether it's appropriate to ask for more Landscaping there and if there's a a justifi reason to not great but I think you should just consider um the the lighting the dawn to dust seems very routine for the our dealership they want brightness there so that you have no residential nearby place it's probably the closest it's very I'll defer to Michael on the signs they address the do I'll defer on the finish of theal for everybody's edification diamond and lauded in application you should know that right before election on and um one thing I did discuss we if there's a sore connection that's going to happen we want that before we pave the there's ampli fire circulation they've shown templates for that have no expectation on the sanitary store uh in terms of the drainage like I said there's no Municipal concern they did Issue a revised or expanded report I do believe there are a couple of njd things that are in conflict with that but it's no expectation that it would be problematic s and so I suggest deep is subject to a further know that I'm here to answer any questions may I um was the fire department consulted with respect to um the reconfiguration of the parking lot to make sure that their vehicles could get in and out of should they need the the on every application the fire and police are consulted sometimes they don't offer grandiose comments uh the truck tur radiuses are shared with the design people and they have a in the pl set they have a maneuvering PL so the answer is yes the answer is yes and they have no problem right and that may be justification for not having islands that are green to curb but they have they have the ability it if you think about it it's already a paved area there site is huge as the 19 acres and develop fly pretty much um got a 7,000 foot addition I'm referencing by comparison the um self storage area up near Victory Road where they did where they were consulted after the fact and had problems once uh once the issue was raised I'm just looking to be sure yes that that building as you recall um where they did the drive around yeah yeah they the the building Mass was such that they basically matched all minimums setbacks there and just had a 10 foot area around the site for that when they included ballards on some of those exit doors that they came they did make a revision I think they came back to the yeah they did I'm only asking as they said because it wasn't part of the origin trying to get ahead of it thank you basically com I don't think you're on yes thank you um I have three comments one the first one just summarizes or supports what Mike disco said I think there are significant opportunities to change some of the striped uh pavement into Greenery the number of the the amount of impervious coverage on the property versus what is permitted is significantly over there's a modest very very minor reduction I think this is an opportunity without losing any parking spaces and I'm only talking around the for the most part the perimeter of the parking lot so it doesn't even interfere too much with the interior operations although there are large areas inside also that could turn to Green um without impacting the circulation and the entire business operations none of my suggestions would remove one parking space it would just remove some of the vast areas that are striped rather than have them striped they could turn into green considering the magnitude of the impervious coverage variant that's one and I would leave that up to your design professionals to figure out the best opportunities to do that but I do think that's something that should be explored that's one number two is my comment on a signage um there's a lot of signs and I respect that this is a very large property with multiple uh dealerships a lot of Street Frontage but there's still an awful lot of signage um the pylon signs the the the first one that we mentioned before there's a variance for 20 it's permitted 22 feet in height the variance is 29 fe8 in I believe I haven't heard a justification why we need to go 7 feet 8 Ines higher than what is allowed in the ordinance and that sign that is proposed at 29 feet 8 in I think is couple hundred feet or 150 to 200 feet uh away from another pylon sign that is to remain both being Toyota pylon sign so I and there's four I don't know how many signs are telling us that there's an entrance for sales um but there's there's an awful lot of signage I guess I guess where I'm going with this is they know their business operations better than I do is there are there opportunities to either reduce signage or why do we have to go to the 29 ft 8 in on the second pylon sign that says Toyota I think it's certified uh cars right by the entrance and then my third comment was uh again Mike kicked it to me and my comment on the building elevations are all are all three sides I should say there not a side but all three sides of the building elevation designed to the same level of architectural design and use of building materials um for the building extension those are essentially my comments thank you we I do have an architect here who can speak briefly if you want to bring him up I don't know if you want to get I don't think there's any public that aren't related to this application the intent was though so I understand it just for the record is that all three sides are going to have that same finish as would be on the front um speaking as the engineer to the sign I mean I definitely would like to hear from the planner about the justification of the height but it um I don't know there's other signs definitely on Route 22 that are that are tall and I understand it's not compliant with the um the relief fear but this is the sign that the brand is asking for so the the dealer themselves then try to meet the Brand's requests when they you know come in for an application and that's you know soed to not be penalized by the brand so they you know we that's what we're trying to that's what we're putting on the site or or that that's what we're proposing I don't have a strong engineering opinion as to why we couldn't look for a smaller sign if you know but that wouldn't I don't think be what the hope would be but I don't make that decision as to whether or not if the board felt strongly about it as the as the planner does um we that's a conversation that I think we're open to having if if you feel strongly about it and um I feel the same way about the green spaces on the islands um you know some of them I could see adding some green space and curbing them in if the board feels really strongly about it um I don't I really wouldn't want to do that with all of them um maybe some of the once closer to the customer sales interface in the front parking lot would make a little more sense because it's it's a good point like maybe that that creates a an environment for the public that's that's a little nicer on the property but um you know for the most part from an engineering perspective and practical maintenance perspective it's an inconvenience so we'd like some relief from that if possible but if the board feels strongly about it I think the applicant's going to want to hear from you about that okay um H to just uh emphasize the point of the planner now that I'm looking at the drawing that side um I guess it would be going into the building the side that's at an angle to 22 is's a long blank wall so I I I think that maybe something could be done there to dress it up because that is going to be very visible from Route 22 um on the front yeah I think you're saying that that basically stood along striped Island next to a a wall that have from the front it would be the right side that's a solid wall on the on the left you're talking about the left hand wall right right that wall is a long really long wall and it and it is going to be visible from 22 it so maybe you could do something to make that a little more interesting and let me have um before you go I just have to ask this are there any members of the public who have any questions for the engineer none thank you thank you everyone do you swear or affirm to tell the truth yes please State your full name spell your last name give your business address my name is Roberto Martinez m a t i n e z redcom design and construction Westville okay Mr Martinez um would you briefly tell the board about your education your professional experience and license sure I went to school abroad in Latin America and uh got me my degree in NJIT and I've been been practicing architecture for the past 20 years registered for the last 12 years in New Jersey New York Pennsylvania and Connecticut and have you had occasion to testify before planning boards and Boards of adjustment yes can you tell the board a few of the boards summer Bill Bridgewater demill Randolf and is your license in good standing yes mam chairwoman I offer Mr Martinez as an architect thank you any uh board members have any objections to qualifying Mr Martinez as an expert in architecture none you may proceed so what's a question yes to be A2 correct and just for the record um what's the date it is 121 2022 is when was created and then and does that does it have a sheet number or a title something just so we can sheet A6 A6 a6a of architectural drawings thank you okay now so my question was the 85 foot long wall on the right side it looks like a big blank wall I agree is there something you could do make it a little more interesting the the the wall is broken into two um up to 4 feet we're going to have split face block which has a texture and then from there on we're going to do drive it which is what you see everywhere but I agree with you I think we should put um and I told this to the client that I was going to include it to put some windows there to get also natural light into the uh long drive I mean we're going to have nine cars there at a point and I think it needs some so natural light so I agree with you maybe wrap the freeze down on that side maybe yes I'm I'm going to sit down with him but at least we're going to punch out windows and if he likes maybe we can do similar to what we have here which is an elongated glazing which will play with the rest of the building I think that would be a good thing to do because that is basing on yeah it's just when I start developing the plan and I like but it's going to happen that was a good point thank you can you speak to the roof are there going to be any rooftop equipment that needs to be screened or should there be a parit or anything on the on the on the edge of the roof line no because most of the addition is for the the the the cars so there all we going to have is um Heating and some big fans to move the air the uh customer area is going to be in the existing building which already has uh all the hbac we just going to rework the hbac and and use this system so just to clarify are they agreeing to enhance the building elevation and provide a color rendering of it yes sir thank you any other questions for Mr Martinez any members of the public have any questions for Mr Martinez seeing none thank you thank you Council just um so the uh record is complete when you submit copies of the uh A2 if it's not already in the a copy of exhibit A2 thank you okay this is our planner John McD you swear or affirm to tell the truth yes I do St your full name spell your last name give us your business address sure hi there everyone my name is John mcdna that's spelt MC capital d n oou my office is over in Paran 101 ja drive thank you tell the board a little bit about your education experience sure I'm a recor guy I am a licensed professional planner here in the state of New Jersey that license is current it's in good standing um I get to do this throughout the state on a nightly basis including it here in the past and I'm also a member of the aicp which is a national certification both are current and a good standing thank you any members have any objections to qualify Mr proceed I'm sure you do this better than I do what I'd like to do Madam chair is just hand out some exhibits I think this is one of those applications where the site is going to speak for itself for the record we want to identify this as a single exhibit with multiple Pages three thank you could you please describe what's depicted on this so A3 is going to be a series of five photographs of the subject property they were taken back in August about a month or so ago but they're a fair and accurate representation of the site as it presently exists was just out there yesterday and again it's reasonably the same um as you see here in these photographs uh the the key points are as follows number one we're dealing with an exceptionally large large piece of property as you just heard from Josh's testimony we're almost 20 acres here it's a site that has a long standing Association and identity with auto dealership and particularly this brand the Autoland brand this site has been here since at least the 1970s I think I actually heard 1960s uh this evening so it's been a long part of your community the essence of the application is to take this developed site make modifications to make it better it is certainly supposed to be an interactive process we've heard some good comments or concerns from uh some of the board members about that interaction between pedestrian safety crossover between the maintenance access and the inventory area or the sales area and I think there are reasonable modifications or conditions that we can put on this application to ensure that that does not become a safety concern um again it's a single tax lot block three 3703 Lot number one it's along the Route 22 Corridor which we know is lined with commercial uses and all of your surrounding uses are non-residential you've got office you've got retail you've got industrial and the clear evidence of these photographs is that you do have a site that has excellent spatial capacity to accommodate both inventory storage sales display customer parking and service veh vehicle parking as well um and this is going to be an improvement for the customers that are already coming here is going to enable customers to stay within the primary building within the primary customer building and away from the utility building which is in the back which serves no practical purpose putting your customers in the in the back of the site when there's an opportunity to to give them weather protection connection to the main sales area as well there certainly is a Synergy between having customers in your sales building even if they're associated with the service component or the natural progression of Auto vehicle ownership so we have a substantially paved oversight what you see here is substantially what you're going to get keeping that M that main L-shaped building in the front and as we go through the photographs you'll see there is a clear hierarchy in the facade of the building where customers know you come in this door it's not going to create confusion that you now have a service entrance over here it will be signage to show that secondary access point for service customers but I don't see this as creating confusion for pedestrians with crosswalks and perhaps putting those those safety cones that you see that warns vehicles to slow down for pedestrians Crossing and a crosswalk I think that's a nice traffic calming condition that the board can impose on this application to ensure safety one of the nice things about this application is that we're going to get clear parking definition and better site organization than you see out there now I thought when you went back and looked at Josh's last exhibit the one that shows the color coordination customer parking is going to be over here vehicle display is going to be over there and then of course the inventory access as well this is really a wing off of the main building it's not going to be a separate out building and is an excellent complement to that which is already there um it's called a drive-thru but it's not a drive-thru in the sense of a Jiffy Lube it's more of a PTO CET you pull in you've got weather protection you leave your car and then you go inside this is not an area where service is going to take place per se again it's not a Jiffy Lube it's not a car wash where you're going to have the stacking of vehicles waiting to be serviced you get out you go in you may take a a laner car and go offsite um but it's not something where we're looking to keep people in their cars on the property first page again is a view of the property looking to the southeast you see the service building all the way to the right you see the main building in the center we don't want to keep our customer base separate we want to pull them together and that's exactly what this application does here you've got a view looking on page two to the east with gr 22 off to the left Lawrence in foreground you heard through Josh's testimony we're going to punch out another CB cut another ACC access point to facilitate circulation off of the site um we have some nice clean letters here from the County planning board from the NJ doot and from the County Soil Conservation District no problems with the plan that's proposed before you third page is a view from the the opposite of what you just saw looking to the west and again you get a sense of the excellent special capacity to accommodate the development that's before the board what's nice is most of the inventory parking will be able to be kept in the back behind the building um so the building is going to be the primary focal point and that's familiar in the public eye and that becomes evident in frame number four where we're looking at the building and you have the clear demarcation of the building entryway which is going to St and then the service enhancement or the service amenity off to the right there and then finally the last page shows just how remote that that service area is we don't want to be sending our customers away over there so if we can keep them in the core building that's a good thing from a planning standpoint in terms of the relief again um Mr disco and Mr mrea has given the board a good road map here and things to think about in terms of the relief the applicant is seeking things you should think about in terms of the criteria for that belief we happen to be split zones here we're HC in the front where the sales and service use is a permitted conditional use you heard Josh say that all the conditional use standards are met so we're not asking for relief for the front portion per se from a use standpoint we are looking for relief for the back half of the site or the back portion similar to what we were here for in 2020 and that that's your industrial Zone your I40 Zone where you can have a lot of more intense uses than what the applicant is proposing here on an industrial scale it's nice this application it keeps what's there there what's been there now for 50 60 years or so it takes what's there and makes it better but it does need relief it needs use relief as your two professionals have pointed out again because auto sales and service is not a perit permitted use in the zone District in terms of the justification for that use relief we're going to walk you through the parts of the medich test First Site suitability this site is particular particularly suitable for the use by virtue of its context we're in a non-residential area I think it's clear here that there's going to be no impact on any residential uses and this will be an enhancement to an established business with a long-standing commitment to the community also in terms of site suitability again the site is ideally suited for the use that's before you because there's been a longstanding Association and identity with this exact use that's here now special reasons we see multiple purposes of zoning being Advanced here including purpose a the promotion of the general welfare again with an enhanced customer service area that's going to be more convenient providing for weather protection for the customer base that's already here better overall site organization and parking definition and then in uh again establishing and enhancing and established business with a long-standing commitment to the community all goes towards the promotion of the general welfare that's purpose a under the land use law we also see purpose M or planning old for efficient use of land taking what's there repurposing it is spot on with that planning purpose and then I think we can say purpose ey the promotion of a desirable visual environment you have a nice aesthetic there now it's keeping what's there it's going to put a nice compliment wing on the building and again a nice long Mass along the front of the site I think helps break up the parking Mass that's presently there in terms of the public impacts it's supposed to be an interactive process I think there's been a good back and forth between the board and the professionals I thought the mitigative measure of a crosswalk or multiple crosswalks is a good solution to get those customers from the parking area over to the sales area or the display area and then again those little conbes that you see could also help traffic C uh Vehicles as they come in on the service access way the flow the function the organization has been addressed operationally architecturally and sitewise as well we're not dealing with any steep slopes here we're not dealing with any major earth work here we're not dealing with any substantial land clearing here as well uh so no substantially adverse impacts related to what the applicant is doing here lastly with respect to the impact on the Zone plan went back and looked at your master plan reexamination reports looks like you have a brand new one coming online soon as well well um again with that we see that economic development is certainly one of the tenants of all master plans including your own promoting business business attraction and of course business retention being just as important this is a major employment generator here in the community and also provides an important public service we think this is spoton with that goal for economic development and a stable rable base and as I keep saying it's going to enhance and established business with a long-standing commitment to the community all of the other relief I think ties in or can be subsumed within those use benefits that I just gave you I'm not going to go through all of the relief that Josh gave you on a on a practical standpoint I think you can bundle them all together as necessary to effectuate a good project probably the Ling lingering question is that extra sign there at 29 ft where 22 is the maximum that's allowed if you look at my exhibit you'll see two other signs along the front of the property along the other access points one is about 32 ft another is about 40 feet if I read the survey this is actually going to be smaller than those two other signs that are on the on the property presently so they're not going to overpower or dominate the signs that are already there and will actually integrate well it's a site that has extraordinary Frontage extraordinary Highway Frontage we do think breaking it up with some signage is a good thing from a planning standpoint for clear and safe site identifications uh all all things said I think this is an application where the positives uh substantially outweigh any of the negatives I think the board can move favorably on the application based on the testimony before you most importantly the statutory criteria for the relief are met and approval is warranted and with that I'll I'll pause and go to any redirect AC CL uh I don't have any questions thank you uh any questions from the board none okay Mike disco MCD um these are all taken August 20th I presume they were yes were you at the site in more than one day or over long period of time I was uh this is a an applicant that likes to meet face to face I I was struck actually by the lack of bars on the in terms of mass size so are there opportunities to remove pavement and green anywhere on the site it doesn't have to be Greening in a sense of elaborate looking at these aals looks like's a lot I think I did hear a stipulation to work with your professional on taking some of those striped areas and converted them into Landscaping so I think that's something again as part of an interactive process happy to walk the site or or meet but as as far as a major removal of pavement you know we're still dealing with with the loss of inventory from covid and they're continuing to to want to to have more cars here right I don't think the applicant but that statement is not meant to state that we'll lose parking spaces but we'll uh converge striped areas where we can to landscape not to Green Space and was there a variance for the number of of uh ground sign I believe there were um there's there's variance for that extra freestanding sign you now have seven so that's for the additional sign I'm sorry six were five is the maximum that's allowed and related to that there was area and height relief um I have to go back and check exactly the number of permitted ground signs you have a nice page here in Josh's package and I'm just going to flip to it just so I can make the record here okay yeah sheet 9A shows all the ground signs that the applicant is looking to install it's going to create a nice unified appearance um they all serve a wayfinding function you heard Josh say an arrow points here it points there It Gets You Through an exceptionally large site and almost 20 Acre Site and what I like about all of these signs is number one they're nice they're clean uniform number two they're just words you only see the Toyota logo once so this is not going to be overbranding by any stretch it's more informational or directional in nature but we're not splashing the brand all over the place any other questions sorry I just again I'll support removing any pavement that we can that doesn't a start to remove inventory parking does it start removing parking spaces for your business operations but there's a lot of pavement on this site that can be we can go from asphalt to Green without any impact on business operations I think this is an opportunity take a hard look at that and try and further reduce the amount of impervious coverage be happy to work with with their professionals and mik to see what we can do and I think there's a lot of signs on the okay um let's just open it up to the public is there any member of public has any questions for Mr McDon seeing none okay um anything additional that our professionals want to add at this time before we start discussing good um okay thank you did you get an answer to your question about lighting yes yes any member of the public have any comments on this application okay there are none thank you madam chair could I have a couple minutes to consult with my client yes you may Let's uh take a five minute break it's 8:33 we'll go off the Record thank you for e e e e e e e e e e good thank you all right uh it's 8:39 we are back on the record yes M Madam chairwoman um of course we we note that there are only six board members present um given that this is a use variance requiring five affirmative votes we would ask that this matter be carried to the next board's meeting uh in the interum we will take the opportunity to meet with your your professionals particularly Mr M sta uh whom we invite to to come out to the site and uh walk the site with us and and give us the benefit of his comments and how it can be improved um and we would uh be prepared to address plan revisions at the next time by testimony and perhaps exhibits we're I'm not suggesting that we're going to submit a another full set of plans we are interested in any um feedback other feedback that the board members might give tonight so that we can be better prepared to come back if uh if the board has any comments they want to offer sure that that Mr Tiner is available Mr Martinez is available John are you available for October 15 are you going to need the planner test I mean you talked about one I think that if you're looking for for full composite of the board full composition of the board then we would have we would ask that all of your professional be here in case any other board members have any questions okay yeah M M M Mr MCD is checking his records now he if um if he's not personally available he has he could send another planner okay um okay so we're going to need a motion to table or carry I guess um to the October 15th but you did say that you wanted some additional if if if the board members wish to offer any feedback so that we can take that into account yes I believe one would be as you said working with Mr Mista to look at um more green space on the site um and I do I do agree um that maybe uh revisit the signage um particularly the monument signs the height um and the amount of overall signage on the property but I don't speak for all board members so if there's anything else please at this feel free to timee in now I just have one observation that was brought up early that there's were not a lot of cars on the property inventory stort on the low side you expect that to increase significantly you going to need the parking spaces that are all there yes they they the the the manufacturers are still just not producing the number of cars that that the dealerships can sell and they are looking for that to to gradually improve in the past has those have those um inventory spots been all filled up in the past for before I I I can havea side as of today we had 41 new cars inventory and it's just again Toyota just can't produce the cars you know fast enough for us so you know we're hoping that we can get back where we used to have let's call a 90day Supply right now we're sub 15 day supply of our inventory and um you know we're learning different ways of of doing business and trying to service our customer base as best as we can but um you know it it it's tough you know running with the inventories that we're running with right now that's why you see so much of you know the space that we have we don't expect it to stay that way we're hoping it doesn't but you know we've been doing this now for four and a half years basically of that and it's always it's coming it's coming it's coming and you know and I the only other thing I there was just The Pedestrian plan you know as far as from pedestrian yes walkways anything else you want to add okay um with that we are is there a motion to carry yes Mr fenam yes Mr Hawkin yes yes Mr yes Vice chair Cunningham yes and chair yes motion passes okay so that Bruce thank you chair just uh for the public if there's any many the public present this matter is being carried to the October 15 2024 meeting there will be no further public notice as it is being adjourned here on the record thank you chair thank you any other business motion to adjourn make the motion second all in favor I have a good evening thank you everyone