##VIDEO ID:https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/5143?view_id=37&redirect=true## He counsels or double Johnson here just hear here maker here being here, council PRESIDENT Rally here, 7 PRESIDENT Kown absent. Police and if you would like and are able and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance. to there when that and Consent agenda iems one through. 23 year before you for your consideration. All right. It's my understanding that number 13 16 are being withdrawn for technical corrections. Are there any other items to take separately from consent? Seeing is just would move the consent agenda al in favor say Aye, Any opposed. 7, a favorite. N one opposed. The consent agenda is adopted as amended with items 13 16 being withdrawn. Item. 24 is first reading of ordinance 25 Dash 4 ending title 4 of the Administrative Code at Chapter 92 title Tree preservation for city-sponsored projects. All right. So I'm going to turn it over to COUNCILMAN Acre for her staff report on this item. Go ahead. Thanks so much, council PRESIDENT. It's a it councilmember slash staff report really grateful to be bringing this today after a lot of work on the part of my own staff. I want to give a lift from a legislative antenna, Mackey a ton of credit for the work she did on this. As well as shine Kershaw Rodriguez and their teams in public works and parks. The goal of this ordinance is really to preserve our urban tree canopy by making sure that whatever we do work or contribute to work on city right away that we preserve the trees that are there. We either preserve the trees in place. We re plant the trees if for some reason they need to come down or we replace those trees elsewhere in the city, if there's no way to replace in place, I know that all of us talked a lot about her left my constituents about the importance of preserving our urban canopy and greeting the city in general. And this is a small step in that direction. So know that Dr Kershaw and possibly director because our staff are here. If people have questions and we'll have a public hearing next week. All right. So to have any questions for our council, early councilmember or staff supported parts public works. I MAY I do have questions and see their director Kershaw. Thank you for being here. I think what would help me just at the outset is to understand from your perspective, the goal of this, which I think we share. But then so how do you envision it working in practice? And is there anything us know about what you've been able to talk to you ensure the successful? I would appreciate your insight. Thank you. Yeah, council PRESIDENT's Concern acre councilmembers. Sean Kirst on the public works. Director, we appreciate the opportunity to talk about this because it's a really important priority for the city and this codifies that literally as a priority. I think the council members description of his great. How do we maximize keeping trees where they are? Number one, number how do we if they have to if it has to go for some reason, the house of preserved in a project area, I believe this would actually apply any project work whether it city lead or not in the right of way. And then 3rd, if that can't happen, how do how we set up a way of making sure that that tree is replaced and some other city right of way. The details of this matter a lot. We were just before talking with council vice PRESIDENT About a specific area. The trees are very important sidewalks are very important. And both of these goals are at the policy level of council. What we appreciate his staff about this is this gives us an opportunity to write rules and procedures and guidelines for those 2 specifically here in the case of trees, we will be doing that anyway and updating our sidewalk work because we want to expand that. So I think Director Rodriguez and I are happy to answer any questions. Those details we want to do anyway. We need to do you know, with all the project work that will be doing and this helps to support that activity. Great. Thank you for that director. I a question from COUNCILMAN Johnson. Go ahead. Thank PRESIDENT. Thank you. Director Kershaw for My questions really just around like I know that in the budget cycle we were able to allocate resources towards tree canopy. And I'm wondering if there's any sort of coordination between that financing and potentially what this could look like as far as actually implementing the resources needed to ensure that something like this would be followed and from them implementable. Council PRESIDENT Councilmember Johnson, the resource question here will be really important, whether it's the $500,000, you know, that was discussed and approved in the context of the budget or project budget. If a project is causing, yu know, an impact on trees that project budget would have to take care of it. I don't want to speak for parks, but I think for both of us, the financial resources here are really important above those we need. We need this policy and guidelines of how we spend those resources. So we want to work out these rules no matter what budget we have and these rules will help us spend that money. You know, most effectively. And I know it's not specifically answer your question. But even if you would put 3 million dollars towards trees this year, we would want to work out the details of hw how we do this. Thank you. I see it followed from a snake or go ahead. Yeah, thanks. Cuts present and Qatar Townsend. Appreciate the question because it's really important. And one of the tings Dr question I had talked about was that that potentially what happens here is that if we are, we have the expectation and the requirement, the trees be preserved or replanted elsewhere. Then the cost of doing that becomes part of the overall budget for the project. So no matter how we're funding that street maintenance Projects, Street reconstruction project, whether that's through nsa dollars or regional solicitation dollars, federal dollars are local dollars. That funding source would stay the same. But the budget would just be expanded to include the cost of treatments so it would no longer be a nice to have or an ad on, but it would really be integral to the work that we're doing on the street. All right. I'm not seeing other questions. So I thank you to both our directors being here and for being treaty am paeans and we'll send this to its public hearing. Thanks, COUNCILMAN Acres. It's ordinance is laid over to JANUARY 22nd for second reading public hearing. Excuse me item. 25 is a public hearing of ordinance 25 Dash, 2, many chapter 6 point. '03, of the city charter pertaining to application of administrative citations for violations of city ordinances based on the recommendation of the charter commission pursuant to Minnesota Statute section for 10.12 Subdivision, 7. All right. So last week we had our staff report on the introduction of this critical charter change. And we're here today at the public hearing portion of the process. I want to lay out how we're going to do is public hearings that everyone can be heard and so that we can make sure we're able to get this critical public public feedback in an orderly fashion toward that end, it would really help me if you're here to testify on this item number, 25, could you just raise your hand and hold it up for? So I can get a sense of how input we want to take. Okay, great. So what I'm going to do is we do first come first served so people can just line up at the podiums. You have to get to my right away. But if you want to go right away, go ahead. Could I have our legislative aides who are managing the public hearing go ahead and get to their spots and then we just take turns from each side by the glove column and you're gonna just let us know at the time of your testimony, your name, what neighborhood you're coming from. You don't have to give us your address. Sometimes people tell us they will Thank you so much for the detail. You don't have to do that. And then I want to make sure you know, you have 2 minutes to give your comment. And then I will just be making sure that the person at the front of the line also gets the same amount of time is the person at the back of the lines will be moving through and then our amazing staff Brady is going to be right there. Letting you know, when you have time limits left with his flash card. So please respect that. With This is a public hearing and item number. 25, so we welcome our community to come up and get in line and then will begin taking public comment in any order. And from any vantage point. All right. Welcome up, our first community member you've 2 minutes. Welcome. Go ahead. Good afternoon. PRESIDENT Council PRESIDENT Jalali and all council members. My name is Arlene dot 2. I am a Filipina, Asian-American mother of 3 and grandmother, too. I live in Ward 2 same poll and I am and I say a leader. The strength of our same poll, communities grounded in our ability to care for and support one another. And we do this to uphold the dignity of every say Paul light, no matter our skin color income levels where we live or where we worship. As as a leader, I work sick and safe time in and rent stabilization. I was overjoyed when we pass these policies. I filled that last renters. Ad workers would get their just due. My expectation was that businesses and property owners would abide by the new rules. This is personal for me. In 2023, I had a hip replacement. My doctor said I would need someone to be with me at home in the days after surgery, my daughter offered to take care of me while I was recovering, she took time off from her Saint Paul job, but she couldn't use the earned sick and safe time policy because her employer wasn't complying with the policy. It's not right that employers can act like they can violate these laws and get away with the 9 their workers. What is rightfully owed them resources to pay the rent and put food on the table. It's time that we put teeth into these ordinances that we have passed together to ensure a faster resolution to the health, welfare and safety of every same poll worker renter and resident. So I ask that the city Council vote yes, and pass administrative citations on Wednesday, JANUARY 22nd, thank you. Thanks so much for your public comment up. She to be in here. All right. Welcome of our next community member. Go Thank you very much. My name is Jean Comstock and I'm happy to live in Ward 7 I want to come today and let you know how happy. Aso a member the Saint Paul let you know that we're very happy to see this ordinance coming up for you and that you all made public statements that he would support it. We talked about this just last Monday at our beating and everyone is in favor of it. There. However, I'm going to speak to more today as a private citizen Saint Paul as we had a little experience with this. I have 2 neighbors who lived a few blocks to the south of me who have been having tremendous problems with a rental unit which is not keeping proper track of its garbage. It ends up being just toss back there and it goes in different places and it's not picked up regularly. So that's a real problem for us for myself right across the street. From there is a house that has been vacant for 4 years. Never had any work done on it. And just in the last few months, the owner decided that he was going to take this project on and didn't or said he didn't realize that he had to permits or anything. So he's had the roof replaced. We don't think he had a permit for that when one of the neighbors went over to talk to him about having permittee essentially was extremely belligerent and rude to her said, no, he didn't need them. And so we got together and called city officials and inspectors out there and they've given tem 3 months to get things taken care of. But we don't have a lot of confidence. Is he's actually going to do that. Ordinance like this would go so far in have helping us with these people who don't think they need to follow the rules. So encourage you come next weekend passes. Thank you very much. Thanks much for being here public comment. Appreciate. All right. Welcome up. Our next committee member to give us there $0.2 in 2 minutes. Welcome. my name is west for dine-in. The owner of the Black Heart of Saint Paul. Look, we're soccer bar Saint Paul's oldest bar straddles Ward one and Ward 4. I'm here today is a small business owner that supports passing administrative citations for multiple reasons. First and foremost, as a resident and business owner, I'm deeply committed to being a good neighbor in the midway as a neighbor also keenly aware that not all businesses in our neighborhood view themselves as part of our community. In fact, some of them of the are either ignorance that they're part of it or actively disdainful of it. We spent years dealing with the bp gas station, fostering an environment that led our patrons being assaulted on a number of occasions. And we see that again with the cbs. It's University. Secondly, we believe in treating workers right and are excited about our city's minimum wage and sick and safe time wedge wage theft ordinance is everyone including small business owners like us who follow the law. We all lose when our city is unable to protect working people from predatory employers. But let me finish by giving you really specific example of the city being powerless to address inequality in enforcement year and a half ago, we have been a brand new patio. Spectacular and gorgeous. Many of you enjoying sunny afternoons. There. But it opened foreman months later than that should have we diligently and exhausting. We worked with the city to meet every bit of code no matter how arbitrary times counterproductive. That scene. We are conditionally approved in DECEMBER. But that process dragged on until JUNE. We didn't open until SEPTEMBER. That eventually cost about $50,000. At the same time we saw another patio in the city get installed without killing a single permanent and a mile away. 2 mnths with excuse me Menards installed 8 foot fence, 4 feet higher than Co 2 levels that illegally blocks pedestrian access. That's been up for 2 years without a single consequence. In fact, the inspector I spoke to said he was unable to get anyone from Menards on the phone about it. Anyway, I have more I'm very much in favor of the so thank you very much. Thank you so much for your public comment for being here. We appreciate it. All right. This public hearing come up our next community member to give testimony. Go ahead. Hello, my name is Tom. That clarity and I am a resident and small business owner in Ward. 4. I'm also leader isis. A home in my neighborhood was recently can Dan and it is truly an eyesore. So many of my neighbors have expressed frustration with vacant property and there hasn't been much the city can do. This has real consequences. I'm afraid the home will bring down a property value which hurts our ability to build wealth for our families. That's why I support administrative cost citations. Currently, there are too many examples where the city of Saint Paul is Steph of 2 options. It's either in action or check arch charging someone with a misdemeanor. These to extreme to address the situation in my neighborhood. I don't want owner to be jailed but I do want be held accountable. I also don't want the violators of laws, especially those of color to be on a path to over penalization or criminalization, administrative citations provide us and that criminal enforcement mechanism to improve the well-being of Saint Paul workers renters and residents all across background. This is a common sense policy that most cities have. I think we deserve it too. I asked the city council to vote yes. Impasse, administrative citations. Thank you. Thank you for being here. And thanks for public comment. Appreciate it. All right. Welcome of our next committee member to give public comment. My name is Dan. I felt resident of Ward 4. Have been for most of my adult life. I was a renter. But for the last 3 years, I've been a landlord. And I know from experience that there's all types of landlords, some of us will do what's right by our tenement fire tenants, no mtter what some will squeeze every last dollar out of their buildings and their tenants no matter what laws be darned. And then there's a large middle that will go in the direction of the prevailing wind. Kind of everyone else in society. And I think that administrative citations. We'll change the direction of the prevailing wind by putting some. Intermedia consequences between a warning and a criminal. And a criminal citation. So that's why it's important to me. But I think there's also a deeper question to it, which is for those of us who are progressive Tfl who believe in good government. Are we when we say we are, do we follow through on the things that we pass a campaign on and say we're all about? I'm to the point where they make the difference in people's lives that we tell them to expect and promise they're going get. Or do we pass bills say that we did something. And got a good message out of it and feel good. At the administrative citations by aopting those that that will provide meaningful impacts that really puts help us walk the walk. In addition to talking the talk. And the city. So that's why I support administrative citations strongly. I council unanimously votes for it on JANUARY. 22nd, thanks. Thank you for being here and for your public comment. All right. We'll go to our next test fire to give us their public comment. Go ahead. Welcome. City Council, PRESIDENT City council members, thank you for your time. My name is Shaffer Repair and I'm secretary treasurer of unite here. Local 17, Minnesota's Hospitality Workers Union. We represent several 1000 people in the city of Saint Paul Hospitality is one of the top industries that workers face wage theft in and that way. It's tough to his face just proportionately 5 bipoc women and immigrant workers. And one of the few resources nonunion workers have is turning to the city. I've been a member of the Saint sack for several years. Gotten to know the people at department and they're really amazing work. Right now. It's frustrating that they have to negotiate for people's wage when they receive away stuffed. That takes a lot of extra time. If you're a low wage worker, any delay in getting the wages that you've earned can be devastating. We are asking you to support administrative citations. Yes, I think it could be a crucial tool for the hero department to help make sure that same poll workers are treated fairly in justice faster. Please vote yes in support trade of citations. Thank Thanks very much for being here for you. Coming she it. All right. We will come up next committee member to testify. I Fred, didn't how this and I would want. And but am all out with a link cycle function the 78. Well, how about that gotta have low? That we called about this? A man cometh. The high. Got of them and And at the look at what the man into custody. I made him idle and and resident Paul I have concerned my property. I being effected 2 times without coast. I've been section to be affected. And I want an appealing to the city Council member, 2 baskets and safe sanitation so that they can be a flight to the rules. is all of the high. A look at the good. I love It was a meeting with the latest model. Funding would believe us at all. You single mom, Pam height and of a course well, you go on Lucille Way that it Then he can't mission the whole behind. I do love them other than month and how a van into the old us of a and I know how the government about a Hochul We had that I got come Seminole in what he had just committed some people. Been like in labor? Do you to go into the heat in the U.S.? I'm a single mom of 4 children. Home is very important place fall full human being and simple. My city. maintain us for that. Property is fit for. Piece the plays, that's a lot of physics not fit for human being. So I feeling again, I would ask you guys to vote yes for this ordinance. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you being here. Thank you to our staff or extend the time for translations of what has the same amount of time. Thank you. All right. We woke up next community member to give comment. Go ahead. Hi, my name is ever been. And I live in Ward 5 at 10. The refuge church in Wrd 6 in Saint am a leader with Isaiah 24 years I my landlord charge 6 and also repairs there were not listed in my knees. He tech them fees that we're outside of the rant that I had supposed to pay. I didn't know what to do or how to address the situation. Paid the fee. In 2020 for 20 years later. My daughter who turns $800 for repairs. Things in the apartment already broken before she moved in. The total was running and broken and she was expected to pay for that repair the issue gets so bad that it needed to into other parts of the unit for He was afraid of saying something because he was afraid of losing her home and experiencing retaliation. My granddaughter has this needs to go to any as a renter. The unit that she was was infested with rats and the landlord exterminate is that the landlord told her that she should get cats to deal with the issue. He the mandate went from her. She eventually moved that. He still he still renting out of that property until today. Story demonstrate that for generations we have failed renters like myself, my daughter and my granddaughter by not have a fully enforce that ordinances that are meant to protect pilots policies. That's completely unacceptable. Expect he says the majority over it people of color that we did there for protection under a lot. It's time for this to happen and open to all of you expressed public support ministry of Citations and OCTOBER 23rd. And we expect that you follow through on your commitment. That's why I'm asking the city council to vote yes and get this done. What thank you. Thank you for being here. And for public comment. All right. Welcome our next community member to test that. PRESIDENT Jalali and council members grateful to be here. My name is Dan Humes. I'm a homeowner in Marion Park Board for in Saint Paul. And I'm here to underscore the necessity for including administrative citations in our city tool box. We want our council members to have the power to enforce the rules and regulations that protect our rights without needing to go to the courts and get them involved ordinances or local laws not suggestions without needing a I'm sorry. And that simply suggestions our expectation when became involved with the local government was that we could improve conditions for ourselves and for our communities. But if rules protecting our rights can be broken without any consequences or if their consequences involved. Extraordinary delays or cost and people get discouraged and demoralized, giving the city council tools to enforce compliance. Well, not only help us recover stolen wages or reduce unreasonable rent. It will also help restore the trust not only can pass caught that we can not only pass policies but have them work for Saint. Paul writes, regardless of race class in war. 24 the 25 largest cities in Minnesota. Already have administrative citations. Saint Paul is not on that list. The 30 largest cities in the United States have administrative citations in place. Let's employ common sense that allowed visit the city Council to enhance and support the ordinance is the laws that are already in place. And yet to come. Thanks for being here. We appreciate public comment. All right. Our next committee member to testify at you 2 minutes. Go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity to speak My name is Dwayne homeowner and word for it there for 33 years. I'm speaking in favor of the administrative citation policy. I see the city Council as an elected body charged with passing ordinances that the only reflects the will of our residents but also strive to strengthen our neighborhoods. So I find it disheartening when some people flop ordinances that are designed to protect the health safety and well-being of our communities. One of my friends opened her kitchen to a neighbor so she she could use her whenever needed. The neighbor didn't want to tell her landlord that the oven was broke. Her oven was broken for fear that her landlord still with Jack up the rent and just a driver out. And I have read about cases of wage theft and failure to pay benefits for workers. All these involve violations of city ordinances. I see enforcement through administrative citations, a simple but from tool, the an important role in moving violators toward compliance. It shows that the city is serious about recovering stolen wages and resolving other violations. Passing the administrative citation show that we can trust that our ordinance can work for residents across Sint Paul. No matter our race class or board. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We appreciate your public comment. All right. Our staff are going come up right next to memory test by go ahead. Hey, thank you for offering public testimony, Councilmembers and PRESIDENT. I am the director, one of the directors of the Frogtown Neighborhood Association. Sorry, do not have a resident with me today that we've talked about this issue at length. And the feeling is that there are obviously problems with wage theft. Sounds like the landlord tenant stuff could be taken care of differently. The fact that all of us are committed to equity is deeply concerning here. So we can't put ordinances in place regardless of race right now, we have to look at race specifically and what is going to happen to poor folks and bipoc flks. If they get caught up in one of these fines. If we're going to pass, isn't it sounds like a lot of folks are in support of it. It has to have a tool whether it's a fund that's put together that allows folks that cannot afford this immediately, too. Get into that or some safety measures. And I'm not sure is Looked at the equity issues around this. And are there. There are there are equity issues said that to know where that's been taken up in what we've heard from staff about that. Thank you. Thanks so much for being here. Appreciate you being here and giving your public comment. All right, Stephen, Welcome up. Our next meeting member to testify. Go ahead. Thank you, Council. My name is many Johnson. I live in Ward 4. 2 years ago. My next neighbor sold his house to a This Flipper told me she lived in Lakeville, working on 6 houses across the cities. She said you wouldn't believe how much money I make doing this. My new neighbors bought the house from the flipper have new docks and a new heater. But the heat doesn't actually go through the ducks bugs, crawl in from the outside, through the living room, floor boards 2 years later, their new drier still isn't connected because the flipper put in the wrong sized pipes. The flip or fact that the flooring the used to cover up the old plaster walls was only $0.25 a foot. The glue is already coming apart and the walls are coming down onto the floor. But the worst part was we watch a new roof go up overriding The roof was so rotten tat the roofers could not stand on the roof. They had to stand on the edge of the letters to hammer the shingles. A neighbor who's a home inspector called the city. As far as we know, nobody was able to make it out. By the time the roof actually installed. So it's just completely rotten. All the beans are completely run. On top of that, we also saw pictures, the foundation instead of being a foundation is a pile of loose papers and forts underneath. But this was all allowed to come to fruition. The Flipper made $100,000 to homeowners that bought it paid basically what new construction would be. But there's basically no system in their house that is actually functional. And on top of that, it is basically a death trap. It is extremely dangerous. So we called the city the home inspector who lives across the street from. You knew that way that they were handling the roof was in violation of city ordinances. But because there was no structure, I guess the city was able to get out in time so strongly in favor of passing administrative ctations strongly in favor of this ordinance. People need protection from people that don't want to follow the rules. Thank you. Thank yu for being here and for your public comment. All right, Stephen, Welcome up. Our next committee member to testify. Hello, my name is for It and they leaving 1, 1, I support that. I'm in a city citation because I'm it and my landlord doesn't follow the rules. Basic my band, but it came. Doesn't have a light. And these doesn't have a light. And it's very dark that I use my flashlight of the to find my kind of night and I don't feel safe for my self and for m children. Of them in Tennessee. If I called him e takes forever and when they come, they just over and they don't fix the problems and takes the for ever to come. So I want all of the city council members to vote for in this admitted to 2 citation. Because it's for safety. What I basically life is and matter for that. And you guys, voted for you. To take care of the dissidents and we are dissidents and this is what we want. It. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate public comment. Thank you for being here. All right. Our staff are going come up our next committee member to testify of 2 minutes. Go ahead. Welcome. Presidential ally and members of the City Council. My name is summer Speaker and I'm award one resident. I am a home care worker and also helped organize our union with seiu Healthcare, Minnesota and Iowa ad now also work as a home care organizer seiu. To form a union. We had to change the law because too often labor has been left out. Excuse me, labor has left out what are called domestic workers. We were left out because it's mostly women and people of color who do this work. We had to fight to get covered by minimum wage. We had to fight to have the right to form a union. Unfortunately sampala still leaving women and people of color behind people like home care workers. Despite great ordinance, despite great ordinances. To protect us like minimum wage. Safe and sick time and wage theft or city doesn't do everything it can to enforce them. I'm not surprised that employers refuse to settle and try to tie up cases in criminal courts. Workers in Minneapolis get better results because their city has the power to use civil penalties. Saint Paul workers need the same tools trying to raise a family on home care rages is incredibly stressful, not getting paid. What you are old and to makes it so much wrse. I hear from workers day in and day out that they experience wage theft and there is not a tool that we can use to make sure these workers get the wages. They have worked so hard for and that their agencies refuse to pay. They are left out. They are left to figure it out on their own. I often leave these meetings with people feeling helpless and the client feeling even more helpless and not knowing how they're going to get the care they need or how that pca is going to provide for their families or have a roof over their heads. It is vital that this is changed and that we give workers and city staff the sme tools that other cities have. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your comment. We appreciate it. All right. We're gonna predicts committee member to testify. Coming up, you'll have 2 minutes and we welcome you being here today. Thank you. My name is Patricia Hartman. And I've been lving in the Mac Grove neighborhood, same offer over 4 years also chain has been practicing in here on business for more than 40 years. And I'm here to say, well, I am opposed to this because I don't think it's really going to be a solution. You're just going to big burden the people of this city to pay for a whole lot more city jobs to try to duplicate a court system. It's really very efficient, very focused has really good rules of evidence. Doesn't allow hearsay. Very fair forms that already paying for with our tax dllars. So I really opt for the court system. All these different stories hearing here. There's a claim you can file in court. You do have a remedy and they're very good. Just find yourself a good lawyer. I did some. It's a materials. And I just want to let everybody know that if you go to materials that were submitted on JANUARY 14th, there's 40 pages in 20 of them are mine. And I'm really pointing out that no matter what side of this controversy, Iran. If you're going see this you got to do it. According to the rules and the rules require that you had. Some people called it her condition who had voted unfortunately. We didn't have a commission. We had 15 people that were not valid. The do not follow the rules. Right now we're operating. Without a charter commission. You can fix it. Just get some people in there. But I do know few people had a chance to read my materials. Anybody hear actually. Nobody. Okay. When leaving a bunch of copies here I find paper easier to read than the electronic anybody else who wants to make it extra cash out. And spoiler alert. We're also probably going to be gathering signatures if you ever to get this ordinance passed will probably have a petition because it's it's it's going to be referred back to the people. This is the kind of an issue when you're gonna man the charter, this should be done by a popular vote. It shouldn't be an end run where people are doing things in the background. So anyway, thank you very much. Thank you for being here and free public comment. We appreciate it. All right. We will come up our next committee member to give testimony. Thank you for being here. And you'll have 2 minutes. Go at. PRESIDENT Jalali and members of the City Council. My name is Tavana Johnson. Animal men resident of Ward. One. I'm a home care worker and organizer and a member of seiu Healthcare, Minnesota and Iowa. Iencourage you to pass the charter amendment to allow Saint Paul 2 u civil fines to enforce ordinances like minimum wage and wage theft, even with great loss to protect wrkers like minimum wage and wage theft enforcement is always a challenge. Wealthy corporations, routinely break the law, enforce low-wage workers to do something about it. Currently in Saint Paul, if the employer violates the law, staff has to either get involved to make them agreed to settle or take them to a criminal court. 4 workers. This means longer delays and fewer recovered wages under the current systems. Employers can threaten to plod the courts and run out the clock. I have lived paycheck to paycheck and these delays and lost wages hurt. This is a racial justice issue. African-Americans and other people of color are more likely to be protected by minimum wage. Yes, st and wage theft even when protected by the law. They are more likely than others to have their rights violated and their money still. Not amending or charter means people who look like me live in m neighborhood. We'll continue to lose money and suffer from employer bias. Please help us fight for racial equality and vote yes on this amendment. Thank you for being here and for public comment. All right. Our staff are going come up our next committee member to give testimony left 2 minutes. Still ahead, when you're ready. Good afternoon. My name I am a resident in sample of what for and I'm also a community organizer, Muslim Coalition of as a a I'm a renter and wear right now. We have issue with the maintenance. Not only I am struggling, but most of the neighborhoods struggling with it too. There incidents from some of Vatican. Mike Hayes. I have a dishwasher. Who will I have requested 8 months ago and it hasn't been fixed. Tried to walk with building owner address the issue that is no sign of progress. And poll we walk together with our neighbors elected and we like to shape the city that we know under the law. We have done this over the years by passing or dislike the rent, establish an is when we walk this decision when we make this decisions together, we shared expedition that business and property owners would play by the rules. Unfortunately, Milan and mold if used to comply with our fair housing rules. There some who continue to jack up the rent. At without because they want to read the rules that our expenses so they spread the doubt about government. I was sitting a bit no one would hold them accountable. And that We when we come together, we divide the rules. We can enforce the city ordinances. It could have Billy and to make sure the businesses and property owners accountable. So I'll come units. That's why I say the citations. I ask you to vote yes to pass this and say to set the Thank you. Thank you for being here. We appreciate your public comment. All right, Stephen, Our next community member to testify. You'll have 2 minutes when you're ready. Go ahead. To cmmunity mean City councilmembers and community members. I'm just so happy that you're having a public hearing today. My name is Jen's Warner. I'm a resident of Ward 6 actually, I'm here on behalf of my workplace, which is the Summit University Planning Council. That's the District b Council in Ward. One. So I have a short letter prepared. It's a little easier for me to make a good point. So I'm here on behalf of the Senate University Planning Council. Which encompasses the cathedral Hill in Pronto neighborhoods, the diverse demographics in neighborhoods have afforded us the opportunity to identify and equitable trends associated with city processes. Right keep an eye on things. In recent years we have observed the current Department of Safety inspections complaint based summary abatement order system and how it disproportionately affects community members in the Rondo neighborhood compared to the Cathedral Hill. We have consistently voiced our concerns regarding the need for review of system. Particularly I light of potential racial disparities, the quasi-judicial legislative particularly troubling as they mimic a court process without offering adequate protections for community members. When administrative citations were actually proposed back in 2021, we oppose their implementation due to concerns that they would replicate this existing problematic process with the s I including the quasi Judicial Court model. We conducting a racial impact study in holding community forums. The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights produced a report highlighting the dangers of fines and fees just like this where they say key findings include that unchecked discretion or stringent requirements to imposed fines and can lead and have lead to discrimination and equitable access to justice. We're not exercised in accordance with united with due process and equal protection clauses of the United States Constitution. So we are in alignment with the people here fighting for renter protections and worker protections. But we urge you to take caution and study this. First. I have submitted this letter recommendations on steps you can take. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Every public comment. We appreciate it. All right. Welcome our next community member to give comment. I think we might finished the a ends with a skewer can do this line. Thank you to the longer line for patients and woke him night. My name is Carolyn Stansky. I am a renter in Ward 4 and I've been a tenant for virtually my entire adult life more than 25 years. And I've personally seen dramatic changes in housing for folks who are renters in. My 20's, I lived in duplexes or small properties owned by local accessible landlords. But by my 30's, my partner and I had effectively very few choices, but larger properties owned by regional conglomerates like the ghosts and multi national corporations like sar. And I know firsthand how these corporations care more about expecting extracting maximum profit from their asset than they do about the renters who pay their mortgage and their salaries and these types of landlords are on the studies by the Urban Institute in 2021. And the University of Minnesota in 2024. Found the institutional investors are buying up an increasing share of our housing stock and that private equity firms like this tend to be hyper concentrated in low income communities of color and have eviction rates. Upwards of 25% higher than other housing providers. So has our housing realities change. I do think that we need and new tools to hold landlords accountable. I've been involved in too many campaigns that when policy changes like rent stabilization that are brazenly ignored by bad actors who care who only here to follow the rules if breaking them leads to their bottom line. And also been in too many rooms of fellow tenants who bring egregious an ongoing housing complaints to city leaders have been giving deeply unsatisfying answers from the very system that is supposed to hold their landlords accountable. That said to be completely honest, I am also wary of giving more punitive power to even the most well-intentioned government actors because history has proven again and again that when even when the intent is to go after the big bad guys, the impact does tend to fall first and foremost low-income families and communities of color. So I support the concept of the ministry of citations. Like to see this measure paired with a resolution that establishes a community working group to determine how this will be used. Equitably or at least a resolution that outlines which specific ordinances the city intends to pursue administrative citations. So thank you. Thank you very much for your public comment and for being here today. We appreciate you. All right. Well, coming up, our next community member to give what's up, y'all When they a yeah. I don't know what order at this and just walk around. You. So couple of things. One arrest, mannequin often reminds. That's right. That's ideal flight when we implement things. We often citing to its that plantation, eat those and in a plantation. If those we often create kind to stratification Ys and then those who in the lowest strata often punished. And what he calls full in his presentation. Often it's like how do we create a relational, eat those and speak to the home that. People are doing to one another. So this case with employees with out, homeowners and renters right, property property owners if closing home, how we restore to flee and transformative Lee addressing the pain that has been community buses. Continuously heading to punitive processes right, focusing, for example, por communities continuously have been issued all kinds ordinance fnes, fees that amounted to a point where they became labeled pass the other. So want want to invite us to think about how we're doing. Richard role often says right pain not transformed. We'll trends fluid, but how will we? I look to its transforming the pain that communities feeling was transferring it from one generation to another love. Y'all. Thank you. Appreciate. Appreciate you. Thank you for being here for your comment. All right. Welcome our next member of our community. When you're ready of 2 minutes welcoming, go ahead. Hello, Council PRESIDENT And council members. My name is Jess Grams and a seminarian and community organizer. And I've been a renter in Ward 2 for 13 years. I am here to speak in favor of the proposed charter amendment and the board chair for Capital for Council and the chair of the Skyway Governance Advisory Committee. And we frequently discussed issues related to accessibility in our work. When a downtown building owner decides to close the Skyway Bridge when it is supposed to be open to the public, it is not just an inconvenience. It is an issue of safety and human rights. Sometimes it's a person's only way to get to other town downtown buildings. We're hearing from people consistently have to call 9-1-1, because they are not able to get into a part of the Skyway system or couldn't get out or even stuck in an elevator for many years are Skyway Committee has been advocating for this change because we have been told is very difficult to prosecute this in criminal court. If a building owner could be fined for violating ordinances. We believe they were the more likely to follow the rules. We understand that their potential consequences of giving the city brought authority to issue finance. We hope that those can be addressed by our vibrant community when the specific ordinances are proposed. But there also consequences of allowing, for example, building owners to continue to violate ordinances. People who already have barriers to related related to accessibility are the ones who are getting punished. Now instead of the building owners who are breaking the rules. We hope that you will vote yes on this charter amendment. Thank you. Thank you for being here for your public comment. We appreciate it. All right. Just feel like I should do my second to last call. An old folks MAY waiting if you want to get in line, get in line now is to public comment. We're going to wrapping up and we get remaining speakers here with that. We welcome our next committee member to testify. Go ahead, counts Councilmember, thank you. My name is Laura Haskell in and I moved here about 5 years ago. I chose Saint Paul specifically. I chose Ward one because I've found safe all to be the community of neighbors that care for each other that come together to get things done. I knew in my neighborhood were always Russian out. See who's going to plow the sidewalks before anyone else can get to it. That is the spirit that I love about. Saint Paul. I chose save coal because we work together with our neighbors and our elected officials to come together and get things done to shape the city that I know and love. We've done this over the years by passing ordinances like earned sick and safe time. We after rent stabilization, minimum wage. And some corporate landlords employers want to operate in our city with total immunity. Impunity. They want to read the rules at our expense so that no one will hold them accountable. But when we come together as a community as as elected, we can rewrite the rules to give these ordinance that we passed real teeth. We can create an equitable faster resolution to the health safety and well-being concerns - every worker and community member in this city. Common sense to And I encourage you all to vote. Yes, thank you. Thank you. We appreciate being here. Alright, look them up. Our next me member to give testimony. Good afternoon Council PRESIDENT Ali and City Council members. My name is Cara Peterson. I'm PRESIDENT Of the Saint Paul Regional Labor Federation, our offices over at Smith and West 7th. I'm here today to on behalf of a regional labor Federation to encourage you to amend the city's charter to allow for administrative citations to be levied through a civil law process. Instead of and only imposing misdemeanor criminal penalties. Saint Pul Regional Labor Federation comprised of more than 100 affiliated unions and more than 50,000 union members living in the Twin Cities East Metro, including more than 15,000 members who live in the city of Saint Paul. Saint Paul's earned sick and safe time municipal minimum wage and wage theft ordinance is ensure basic standards for many workers in our city, administrative citations are mechanisms that will allow for better enforcement of an increase compliance wth our municipal ordinances as a member of the city of Saint Paul's Labor Standards Advisory Committee. I know that the city staff in human rights and equal Opportunity Department work really hard to educate employers and workers about the municipal ordinances and that they work hard to make sure that these ordinances are applied in fair manner as possible. The introduction of civil administrative citations will make their enforcement efforts more fair and more efficient for workers and employers would allow the city to avoid burning people with criminal convictions and it would absolutely make a difference for the low wage workers who are not being paid fairly in our city. It's common sense. Tool is used by cities across the country and throughout Minnesota and the Saint Paul City Council should added to its tool kit as elected officials. You have the ability with public process to determine how it will be in place implemented. We encourage you to vote yes on ordinance. 25 to thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you being here and your public comment. All right. Welcome of our next committee member to testify. Go ahead. Council PRESIDENT Jalali members of the council. My name is Rick for Kauai live in Ward I'm the chair. The charter commission. We didn't issue a report on just testifying on my own behalf. As part of that process, we learned that we have a real problem. I'm not going labor what everybody else said. But I will just mention one that was new to me. Private contractors working on our streets, just block them off, set up obstructions and the city has very little power to stop that. I had no idea about that. It's a real problem. The current system where we're at the reason they get away with that is the current system rewards people who are wealthy and can fight the city and drag things out. It works great for I would say lawyers from Ward 4, but for the rest of it's pretty callenging. I hope a it is. This is a real solution. In fact, it's the solution. Most cities have MR. Purdy, a strong opponent of this measure did great research that shows you just about every city has something like this we would have some of the strongest equity protections in our charter compared to other cities. There are real concerns around racial I look through a lot of the reports the U.S. Commission Civil Rights Commission report the Ferguson reports and just I would say that a lot of their examples are not just like this. They are criminal penalties or court fees associated with criminal penalties. In fact, if you read the abolitionist literature, the general thrust of all of it is get people as far away from criminal courts as possible. This is a step towards racial equity. It will not be perfect. Nothing ever is that it is far superior to what we have now. And a dramatic improvement. Thank you. Thank you for being in. Freeport. Coming up, should. And I was joking about the word for thank you. say you have to say I was not upset. All Welcome to our next committee member. You have 2 minutes. Go ahead. Councilmember Jolly and members of the committee counsel City Council. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify and testifying as a resident of work for and also as public policy direction with home line. We support Ministry of citations as a way to strengthen enforcement of local ordinances and state law that deal a tenant and landlord issues. Thankful for the advertisement and referrals that are sent from City of Saint Paul. And you do in part to that, we had over we had 2,761 to contact us. Representing 5,771 Total resident. The top issue that people call us about what your pears, 770 calls were for for repairs. Many of these people are living in a very precarious situation where housing is scarce. And so for them to report an issue, is difficult decision for them to make. And that's why we think stronger enforcement in ways require a good city inspections that happened periodically to Billings is the best way to go because it takes the onus off of the tenant from actually having to deal with this isue in some cases, but actually have the city inspectors take the issues on of those who called us from Saint Paul. 91% were very little in coverage to low-income. We need to make sure that we do all we can do anything protect them. This ordinance. But also in having ways for inspectors to identify the issues rather than Thank you much. Thank you for being here. We appreciate your public comment. Thanks to our staff are making sure folks are signing in. All right. So many the last call. If you want to testify, make sure you get in line. Now with that, look, I'm an ex community member. Go ahead. Hi, everybody. Good afternoon. My name is giving the hacker onion lead organizer for steep on the East metro. I'm speaking as a Ward, 5 resident, a former renter who had a pretty landlord for 5 years. Cool was totally happy into meeting the my family. I-5 siblings and my 2 parents. Any time we tried to request that they fix their repairs. So I am both. I would not wish for anyone to go through what I went through in those 5 years. And so both as someone who was a former enter and also as someone who absolutely represents renters those who have been struggling to make sure that they can hold their landlords accountable. I support and ministry of citations. I also recognize that we have to be committed to racial equity is absolutely important and no one wants to pass a policy where you're worried about abuse of power. And so that's why I'm so grateful that the language in the ordinance is written in such a way where it's the council that gets to amend particular ordinances. But it can't be anybody just using administrative citations how they want to. It's the power of the council that you all get eercise to look at specific ordinances and how administrative citations can be applied. What I also appreciate is that the word equity is in there. And so we get to spend time figuring out what does that actually mean and how do we make sure that community members across raise a cross class across Ward are able to have input on how particular ordinances are going to be amended to include and ministry of citations. And so that's what makes me excited. And and that we've had so many attempts to move us forward and now is the time. And I'm grateful that each and every one of you on OCTOBER 23rd, we're a public in your support of the ministry of citations. So the city, the charter commission could review this ordinance. And I do ask that you follow through on your commitment to this policy because renters workers. People in Saint Paul who really struggle with the imbalanced power dynamic deserve protection under the Thank you. Thank you very much for being here for public comment. All right. Where on last call for a public hearing on item number. 25 anyone else wants testify? I see you, Welcome. Thanks for being here. Sorry, If you want to give public comment, we welcome you to the 2 microphones. All right. 11, 2 minutes. Go ahead. Have a request for the chair. First start the timer. We start to time. It just started. So I that. G ahead. Ask your question. The question of the reset of. Thank you, sir. To do with an overhead do you want to use the overhead? Okay. So what you can do is if you want to show us something, you just put it right tere on that spot in front you. And then the overhead projector will be turned on by a car technology staff. And so let me just get a second, but place it right there. And then I will look to see where that comes up. 6 points. And so its voice activated. So using my voice, please activate there and we go. All right. I can't see it. So I don't know if it's little cinnamon or does bit, by the way, for a start. But the good to presidency, at least it's positioned properly. I you could have Just just a a the other thing when get started for Ada, accessibility just to hold on does not satisfy that. It is. People MAY not even know that All right. So we were happy to take your feedback to do make sure you get to use your 2 minutes. So go ahead. Okay, I come here to speak new ordinance. I believe it's on Page of today minutes. Ordinance. 26 to my name is rich color and officially represented twice exceptional minutes with a statue in 20 15 was have yet to define if you go to Senate file 2024 Senate file 5 to 2in total. Those are the print disabled people that I and if it's represented culprit, variable anyhow, as you can see here, I try to send correspondents for some reason. Got rejected. But I did send a message about accessibility on documents currently posted online. I requested within that was to delay this process and to make it fully accessible to the sucess of Lee policy. Also it document greeted by the order structure what I know a witch and are not fully accessible to screen leaders. The default software is a building. It's not excess tolls. Putin html, you can make it accessible. He had to find a technology legislature can do it. You can do it. Next thing I have a court. I've been involved with the city before. There's an application and put that up there there's a feeling all. I've circled the areas of a 20 to $25 asked for waivers. Again in the back. In 20 $25 Waiver. For your information. These meetings need to be captioned. So certainly want to make sure I am following along, but we're giving public hearing on the charter change right now. Are you here to testify about that? This is related that if you only got it, okay, I just All right. Just will take my So I see they stop my time. Thank you for We pause So here's your letter. Whom are so you're minister that does services for abatement, cetera. She's going to for for situations when expand greatly guiding this. She's already told me that she's so stands behind that you can go to the southern Minnesota dismay last services. The specific letter says they don't do it. Yeah. Just that you for for a waiver you need You need to really look at this mess when you roll it out. If you don't have it, just really waiver for these people. Economic disadvantage. What and basically at discretion of the chair for $0.2 $0.5. A difficult minute. So it sounds like you're you've given us ideas, but accessibility and so is you're asked for us today to support this, to support it with these measures to vote. No. But if you're asked that your last chance take what your discretion. And that's a choice. So we are at the end of your time. And we're about to close public hearing. So I it must anything else you want to say in terms of actually closing your comment. We've actually as business person item that you want us to vote. Yes, yes or no. Like what is your delay? Ok. Thank you. I hear you. Thank you for that right. Appreciate you being here. Make sure that you sign it. All right. So this is the end of our public hearing and seeing no one else. I'm gonna take a motion from I did not see you there. Wanted to come on up Friday behind that though there. Thank you. Good afternoon. I appreciate the opportunity to ask the council to. But this before the voters, I think that's the most appropriate way for city too. Cancer expand enforcement powers. This has come before the council twice before. And both times the council chose not to but could have put the question before voters at night. Believe you did not do that because you probably knew it was going to fail. Also think you're overselling the whole idea of the civil penalties. It sounds like we're going to have city inspectors rainy citations as if their parking tickets. It's not going to solve a lot of the problems that we have. Hr today. And I think it's going to be a disappointment to people. You're either going to get thousands of complaints that are kind of come in that cannot be responded to or most of them won't fit in with some the. Purview of the civil penalties, especially I tink something like wage theft really should be a criminal permanently as So again, the idea that these are civil penalties are actually going to. Changes in I don't think it's going to happen. I think is in some cases they will have to be criminal penalties in order change those behaviors. And for all those cities that currently have this, I would ask how many residents in those cities actually boarded for that power again? The residents, Saint Paul should decide what powers the city has over them. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here. I want make sure we got your name for the public record and we also need you to sign in. Could you tell us your name? Peter Butler, thank you so much. All right. And thanks for signing it. All right. Looking around, I don't see anyone else here to testify. So I'm gonna take a motion for Mis Yang to close public hearing on say Aye, any opposed. All right. So since we do have many people who took time here today to give your public comment, do want to take a minute to respond to some of the questions that came out of it that I think are important. While we have you here. We don't vote today. We vote next week. So I want to make sure that while I've the chance to explain these pieces to you, I will. I want to first just start by thanking every single person who came to give their point of view on this critical charter change. I want to start with just that. This is a charter change because what we're trying to do is correct and oversight in language that was written in 18, 50 for the year that the city was founded. The way that our council looks is not what the people who wrote the charter looks like because we are democratically elected representative elected officials of our communities who have the ability to take every last concern, many of which I wrote out every single one to be able to design a process that allows us to both go after the worst actors in our city who are the big guys? Not the little guys. While also with this charter change process, making sure that we uphold our public commitment as intended. So I want start off the jump. That's the premise for this entire conversation and why I take it seriously by all 7 of us took it so seriously that we asked our charter commission to review it. What we've heard today is, first of all, just so many examples of why residents in our city, especially in disproportionately lower income working class people of color need the city on their side to defend their paycheck, to defend their home, to make sure that they have ability and safety of the residents is taken care of. And with that, we need to make an equity plan for implementation. And I want to lay out the pieces that i heard that I'm committed to working with my colleagues to bring back on the day of the final vote to get on the record for you. That is important for this public conversation. That's important for the long process ahead. The process ahead is that this charter change passing does not allow administrative citations to just start getting used. In fact, I mean, read to you what the text of the public hearing subject is. It basically says and it literally says for each ordinance the city would like to enforce using civil penalty. The council must adopt or amend an ordinance outlining the amount of fine and other penalties that can be imposed for a first or subsequent violation of that ordinance and describing the procedure to impose civil penalties. It further requires any civil monetary penalty amount must be imposed. Equitably. And it also lays out there needs to be notice violation opportunity for appeals appeals process can consider the financial circumstances of the person that wants to appeal. And it lays out essentially the framework within which we then work to individually do a full public process, bring any policy where we would want to use this authority on behalf of our residents. That means anytime in the next year where we would want to even consider using this ability. We would have another 3 readings, at least and a public hearing. We would design that linkage and you do that with you. So first, a process standpoint. I want the public to understand what is and isn't happening today. That's step one. Step 2 is that I want to lay out what I heard as what can be safety and accountability measures and having that happen with it in equitable implementation framework. I appreciate the community member who pointed out the complaint based summary abatement process system has lent itself to structural racism because people who report on their neighbors in a racially motivated way are using the summary abatement process inappropriately. Our council is committed to pursuing a review of those harmful practices. They are both similar t what we're talking about, but they're from a different process that we don't need to go to get charter authority to do some re abatement exists and is an authority the city has. We need to look at and review how to improve it. It is also separate from what we're being considered today. We will commit to pursuing that review in the forthcoming resolution. There was a idea around the fun for relief. And I think that that's an important idea to consider the administrative procedure that that will manifest as inability to pay review. So actually making sure that for the people where we would be defining civil penalty. We would also be defining that. That means that the fine is proportionate to the actor. I say proportionate to the actor because right now. I the city, some of the biggest most faceless out of state, corporate landlords and employers who will not even show face to public hearing right here like you did because they don't live here. Our position to actually pay much more to our city than the average resident that we care about. And they're here to protect. And right now they cannot because we do not have the authority to enforce that against them. S I go back to big guys. Little guys. This is about the big guys. This is about making them pay and there's no worse feeling as a council member. And I've been doing this for almost 7 years now. Tere's no worse feeling than your constituent coming to you and saying someone took my money. Someone took my rent. Someone took you know, side of my building hasn't dented is the issue and help. And being able and just having to say there. So it's really not anything I can do to help. It's the worst feeling. So this is about actually being on your side as the city I heard an idea around. Making sure that there are for our city fees looking at making sure the waiver information is accurate and then a disability accessibility lens. I think that's critical and we can take that into the equitable implantation framework. And then I also heard other questions about. Well, this fall on the lowest residents right now. What is happening is that the lowest income residents who are by definition that are most diverse group of people renters, pays workers, healthcare, hospitality, industry, construction industry. These entire portions of our community. They are much more likely to be experiencing extractive landlords and extract of employers. And we do not have enough tools to actually be on their team. So there is a cost doing nothing. There is a cost doing nothing and the lowest income and most diverse communities in our city are paying that price. I am not willing to allow that to continue and it is why take very seriously our requirement to do this equitably and in a way that's on the record. So I'll be working to take all that feedback with my colleagues so we can come back to you and show you. Here's how equitable implementation for this looks. Multi-month. Frankly, it could take all the rest of this year to actually really begin to start to operationalize this. But we can't even begin that work unless we fix the error in the charter that was written and equitably to rob us of the ability to be resident side. So with that, I look to my colleagues, if there's anything else, they want to say in response to what we've heard or anything else they care about us addressing tonight. I deeply appreciate everyone who came out. Go ahead. MISS Toast. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT And I just want also say thank you again to everyone that came to testify today. And I appreciate your comments. Council PRESIDENT Committed to doing all that work with our council that you just discussed. I just want to say that I I think our city and our residents needed administrative citations. We do not currently have appropriate to uphold ordinances. Many of what you just heard folks talk about, whether it's earned sick and safe time. Minimum wage, wage theft, rent stabilization, and many more in many more future ordinances that we might consider. Currently, what we have on one end is education. And on the other end, a criminal citations which is not equitable. We know that when criminal citations are involved, disproportionately impacts communities of color and are lower-income neighbors. And that is not acceptable to us. Not acceptable to our council or the city. I can think of many instances, you know, our counselor, even our office with Selves. I really wish that we had a better penalty or something we can actually do wish we had administrative citations that we need much more appropriate in this case. And I know that we can also provide a process that mitigates this and make it equitable and reasonable at the same time for all of our residents. Administrative citations, as our council PRESIDENT Mentioned, is about having a basic function of municipal government that we currently do not have. And that's the ability to enforce. The ordinance is in our code. Our cone is about protecting the safety health and well-being of the public. As you heard, many of our community members say as an engineer, that's actually very similar to what we do. And the idea of not being able to pull their code. It's very troubling to me. And then the calls that ideal, if you don't, if you don't follow them, if you don't uphold them, it is a safety hazard and things fall down. Things fail. Similarly our code is what upholds our values and the things that we care about and administrative citations po provide that support. The main reason why I support this tool and I will be voting. Yes, is because this is about holding the people accountable that do not suffer the consequences when they violate ordinances. And they know that they know that we dn't have the tools and they have been taking advantage like things like are some of our large corporations are engaged our community ae negligent. Property managers are contractors have been taking advantage of our city. They've been exploiting our residents or workers and we know that they're taking their wages or whether they're not paying them, not providing them with physically safe spaces to live. We know that it's disproportionately again impacting folks of color neighborhood working people. Folks of lower income that MAY not have the resources to do something about it. They don't have lawyers. They don't have anyone else that can help them. But we do. We do have something that we can do about it. Our city can. Our council can and we can with this charter change. And that's we're going to do with administrative citations. Thank you, councilmember. Any other comments from colleagues. Go ahead, missing and then sneaker, PRESIDENT. Well, I first want to echo everything that you encounter. Virtual said. It also like to take a moment to to see things to all of the staff members and to our council here lost her former former council members, too, who really led the charge on this and a shout out to our former council PRESIDENT Know is in the chambers here with us today. Yeah, Ireally have a lot I want to say on also thank you to the charter commission to really wouldn't be here without their support. There's a lot I want to I. Really took a lot for u to gain her that many, many years of hard work. Yeah, I wish we had to but in front of us because for all the comments of support that we heard today, I would've been pressing that the entire time. I look in this room and see so many people wo were a part of passing really important ordinances you came back here to fight for from prevailing wages to minimum wage and sick and safe time stabilization. And many more. And so I want to say thank you for keeping up the fight because when we to say that it's not enough for us to just get our ordinance approved. That the work still continues. That is so chill. And so I want to say thank you to all of you. So too. The familiar faces, the new faces that we're here testifying. And I know so many folks who pobably wish could have made it here. But the cut end. Thank you, everybody. Because if are they going to take an entire community for us to be able to get this work done and really excited to support the final vote for next week to me when I was listening to all of the things that we heard today. It's really a threat to entire community. When folks aren't getting their wages wind puppies that are negligent arson, you know, landlords property owners and being held accountable. And I think of all of the likelihood like the dignity that just really also gets pilot is so it's not even just about the violation of the ordinance, really person's dignity, their livelihood and really their ability to have well-being in our city. And so that's why take this so seriously. I heard also clearly that isn't that our current system is not working and why. That's why it was so important for us to be able to move toward this direction of administrative citations. It's not enough for us to tell people go to the courts and get a good lawyer because my understanding of a status quo definition for a good way means that it's very costly. And you also need to get somebody who's very experienced. So if you are an attorney and wanted to pro con awake, I'm happy to take your contact because as a council member representing a community where the average medium income per household out for house within my ward is around $45,000. I know a lot of people could use that assistance. And so I I want to say thank you again like it. We wouldn't be here without that committee pushed and I'm excited to get this to the finish line. So we're looking forward to next Wednesday. Thanks comes from being all right. We're gonna MISS Maker next ahead. COUNCILMAN, thanks, council PRESIDENT. I actually wish I had to do, but I'm just depressed after helps spoke. But I also I want to thank everyone for being here for all the work. And I really do want to put a point on the testify or from Ward 4? Don't think he was a lawyer, but that doesn't matter and not to not to talk to think about this as walking the walk because it really is the case that we w campaign on and work together on these progressive policies and and we passed them that we get excited about them. And that's the flashy moment. And then all of the work that happens after that is what makes any of that work up to that point worth anything. And as someone who has worked with many of the people around this table with many of the people in this room on the progressive policies we just talked about honor and to can save time on minimum wage on tenant protections on wage theft and then on creating Labor Standards Advisory Commission on making sure that our hero department actually had the staffing to enforce these ordinances. All that work that we did to hear that there are still employers and corporations that are violating our laws on flagrant basis is is outrageous to me. And as someone represents downtown Saint Paul and just said it so well hearing from constituents who have been locked in sky ways who have been essentially held captive in the skyway system by property owners who do not care. But you have no other way to get around downtown that you use a wheelchair that that you elderly, that you ae only able to navigate downtown through that way and you are relying on that public access to be open to you and we can't do anything about it. The site's been 3 years in court is infuriating to me. So has come said, it's just not the case that everyone can hire a good lawyer anywhere at all. And it's not the case that the courts are efficient or the greatest place to to advocate on these sorts of issues. We as a city need the tools on our own to be able to protect our residents. And that's exactly what administrative citations with it. Thank you. Councilmember maker so ice on can get in line and then Ms Johnson Councilmember Kim. Thank you. I'm going to be very vision. Also was headed to do, one great so I just want to thank again and gratitude to everyone that's come out to speak, work on all the ordinances that now can actually be enforced and consequences to be issued when they violate violate the good, the good that we're doing to protect workers and immigrants and low and hourly wage workers and the one that I just I want to speak to just 2 points, just an opportunity to work in partnership with war 3 as a co-lead for this. And of course, with our council PRESIDENT And our former council PRESIDENT Council PRESIDENT, we're emmalyn and the ability to work on a really wonderful ordinance. And now at the time felt very celebratory and hopefully unnecessary. But now in partnership with Ward 4 councilmember was banning conversion therapy. And so now we have an ability to enforce that. And hopefully that remains true. But there's so many other good things, right, that sort of recognize the humanity of this ordinance and not just the spirit but the people and the dignity that they deserve and the wages that they deserve. And I just have nothing. But honestly gratitude. And I also want to hold space for DR. Ross said he MAY not be here anymore, he represents everyone. He's not just his Saint. Paul light bt talking around. Transform not transfer or and I couldn't agree more. And I feel like there are already really great processes and off ramps right now. We only have criminal citations. And so I also want to echo what Rick Barco said. Progress over perfection. And also this is this is a big step for progress for the city of Saint Paul. So I appreciate all the work that's been done and deep gratitude to the council for us and my colleagues for helping get this across finish line. Thanks. Kim. Alright. Cancer Johnson to pass it to you. I just been sitting kind of there that discussion. And I think that if I had to do, but not also like at this point would be broken because constantly. hitting it because I think. One of things that we've heard just kind of threw the space. And I think that's really important to highlight and to pay a kind of a tribute to with something so significant and important as at and administer citations are the implementation or even just the discussion. The process standpoint, you know, this has been amulti-year process, something that we have heard both publicly privately internally externally. And I think all throughout the city of just multiple folks coming together to talk about this issue, whether that be on charter commission at the council table, it now multiple council, outgoing and incoming council members being able to discuss it, but also in community. I know that we heard from several renters today. And, you know, as a council member in Ward 7, I represent award of 50% homers, 50% renters. And one of the things that I continuously hear about on the east side and continue to talk about here as a council member is the quality of housing that our community members have on the east side, regardless of whether they're a homeowner or renter for most of my life, I was or enter. My family was a renter and while the person who speak and just kind of talking and speaking to the legacy of just how she had rented herself. Her daughter, her granddaughter, had been touch with themselves. And the response that I kind device within also hear all too much. And my word is about right about rats and mice infestations and the response from her landlord being to get cats. I you know, unfortunately to me, that's not a first time I've heard that. And unfortunately, to me, that's not the first time I've her from a family member who's had to address issues within their apartments that are less than humane. And when we think about some of the landlords and some of the folks that are in positions and not to really point the finger but to bring awareness back to the reason why we have a need to continue to talk through ordinances and implementation as well. So as our enforcement tools because the things that we have had in place no matter how long. Haven't always been able to be and forced the best of our abilities. And I see minister, the citations discussion as well. So is the stool and opportunities to that. And I look forward to being able to lead to this year, especially on things around to protections and safer housing. I think the state housing policy that we had a discussion around over the past few years is something that we still need t revisit. But then again, the question I posed to our community is what got our tenant protections. If we don't have anything and our tool box to enforce it when a landlord or property owner just says you hate that protections ordinances in place, but I'm not going to enforce it. We passed wage theft this year and it's something that I think is really important as far as our ability here at the city to partner with so many oher organizations that you heard from today, whose job whose literal blood, sweat and tears going to fighting for every day workers, many of which you live on the east side, many residents who do not have the ability to just call an attorney who do not have the ability to afford. To do that process both in time and money. And when we think about that enforcement tools in those spaces, I see this is a step forward and not a step backwards. I also know that me somebody who looks across the room and sees the council this that does not look like how our institutions used to and are accustomed to have a lot more optimism in my colleagues and how we implement this in the work that going through. But I'm really thankful to see some of the equity language highlighted and this ordinance and would encourage my constituents. And people are also really like having ballot skepticism of government when you hear fees, what that means to partner in this work on the road ahead. Because I also see this as the beginning. Again, a process I expect to be really transparent. Expect that of my colleagues as well as we start to implement this. But I know that, you know, one of the reasons why cautiously optimistic and voting in favor of this is because I think next week is because I think that it's really important to have accountability enforcement the law that we passed. And I genuinely don't know the purpose behind all of this work towards making sure that we have better accountability measures for renters. Like the folks in my word for community members like some of the folks that you heard today for the everyday worker who genuinely just wants to get paid for the work that they do without a proper enforcement tool. And so, you know, I think when you think about like the upcoming. Conversations around Tampa Texans, unlike say, for housing. One thing that I want to kind of leave us with is one element that I really think is really important is that Antarctica protections that are safer housing feel right now. One of the things that we talk about is trying to uphold a relocation assistance for displaced renters in that policy. If a landlord or property space is not able to provide we relocation assistance, let's say they're just not willing to do that. There's nothing in the or and the city will work right now. That allows us to enforce that. Not a single thing. And you know why? Because it's a new concept responding to the equity issues that exist and renters. And I think that that's a super important discussion because so often you all as committee says council members are asking questions that are being thought about for the first time in these policy making space is not in our real lives. But like here at the table and then it's like, well, how do we make sure they They do that in my eyes. This is an opportunity to talk about that in the months years ahead. So I look forward to being able to see implemented and I wnt to be specific attention to the aspect of we don't have to implement these the same way. We always used to do them just like we don't have to have laws that portion impact the same people like they have in the past. Thank you, Councilmember Johnson, any other comments before we wrap? Go ahead. MISS Billy like Councilmember. Thank you. Hello, everyone. Good evening. I know it's a really long journey. Also to just want to say appreciate a former PRESIDENT. Anybody on been even longer journey on. If you seen this process come before us a Moscow times. I want to say, like, you know, I won't say they do feel all the things that were mention. I appreciate people taking the time out there today. Showing that this is important also sharing with us like the reasons and what's that stakes right? Eye and fully aware of the high stakes of the decision that we're going to be making next week. I really appreciate opportunity to hear from a broader residents during this You kow, I have heard from many, many different stakeholders. I first want to start off just saying I appreciate on the national stakeholders that I've been able to connect with a like national fees and fines, justice center has been a strong partner and have committed to working what my office and with the council, in showing that equity is real fright. I also want to thank the unions and the unions who have been fighting to protect our workers. I know the unions are in close proximity too. Many of the things weather is prevailing wages make ensure there a new sick time whether there is affordable wage level wage, so mny different things, rain that they've been on the front line. And I also want to thank our staff. Our staff has a been navigating us through. The legalities of the scope of how we address this and just all the all the questions that one MAY have being a council member in their first year. Most importantly, I want to thank my colleagues for getting a stronger in clear commitments in advance to ensure that equity isn't just a buzzword, but it is the foundation and which we build on. We can't and on equity, we must lead with I. We must ask ourselves the really tough questions and take the time to ask those questions of what are the root root causes of the problems that are residents are business owners are dealing with. I want to see I you know, these rute problems, a dress accordingly. And I also want to be very thorough and diligent in making sure that we are curating and fine tuning the to address that. So it is more than a campaign more than of rhetoric more than the story. But we actually as lawmakers, I care rating the ability to use the tools and in this case with them in a straight citations as a civil penalty. Moving forward as ones be really clear. I also as a ward, one. City council have to hold 2 troops. Hold the true that the ministry citations is a is a fair and equal tool and a flexible tool for us to use. And other true of it has unintended consequences in those unintended consequences are These well studied. We have assessed for them. We have seen it historically across the country and we also I come from a community that has had the impact of these on the timing in unintended consequences. I just want to share to my remarks are rooted in creating a space for often take telling. And I appreciate everyone who was here sharing their van abilities, sharing their concerns. Also just sharing the often the hopelessness that exists with the ability for us to have a a strong Also want to create space for a clear and direct of pathway paid with equity. So if you just you know, bracing for a second, I want to just just give my authentic truth. It also no follow-up in conclusion. What what is a clear directive pathway? You know, where we all can have those shared agreements here for residents. It has overwhelming amount of fear concerns and also hopes of how the city plans to use enforcement tool. And that is important to me to make sure that people are listening to. Currently leaders. In my word, our family opposed to administrator citations. We've heard from our District Council from Frogtown Neighborhood Association District, our executive director from university. That is in close proximity right to a b. The the impact of it and in full transparency shared and my my my colleagues know they heard this from me time and time again that if there are clear implications of how equity will be demonstrated, I fear that Saint Paul residents will be forced to be in a place of limbo. A juxtaposition. And that is not something that I feel comfortable moving forward with. I know the pain. Cause to families. When council doesn't give staff the tools are directions and a process procedures to use this tournament. When enforcing this. I agree with my colleagues said this is about the big bd corporations and I fully I'm committed to protecting workers in rnters and ensuring that we use this tool to hold those people accountable. Who are exploiting people in same pot. Someone Raisin Rondo. I have to be honest. I have seen the devastation when people didn't have the means to meet our city's Colts. And I also for my own personal experience, remember very vividly. The tears from my mom's face when staff was ordered to board up my childhood home. My mom has a fine tens of thousands of dollars and scrape up. Nearly $85,000 just to keep our house. I remember literally seen the house being boarded up and seen and my black and now on my block down in my neighborhood. It houses during a time where there are foreclosures and also during a time that people just struggled financially so make ends meet. And also the inability know these for the abilities of good neighbors, meeting city policies and the source of that blight and vacancy at came. Through our citations. Whether we call them citations whether recall debate months, whether we call them assessments, whether we called them fees are find people still have that impact on their body. And that impact is really The city did not even have to did not have the ability to fund. These to help residents, you know, fund the fixes. The city did not have the tools to verify. You know, if the families that were whether order to vacate are these houses are condemned to ensure that they had shelter. They didn't have these tools right in. And I just want to name that. These are areas where there are inequities that exist in. I am here, you know, to to share that someone who have seen how our policies have function in a very rigid way of being very black and white horsemen of that. Is to ensure that that person is gets to a place of complacency. What we need also sure that there is room for. Restoration. There's room for flexibility is round 2 here from them. We have a a body, you know, as city council to be able to make those judgment cost. What's before us today is an opportunity. And, you know, I think withholding both Stroub's. I want to uplift that. We have something to to celebrate. We have something to energize aound and Curry a tool and the complexities of administrative citations also gives us a vision to create a process that treats people with dignity, justice and protection. Moving forward. I want to use my lived experience in relation to fines and fees as a superpower to lead on a strong equity plan that is people centered and uphold repaired of justice framework. That is the grounds of what I am walking when we are approaching a ministry citations. I really know what to say. Again. I appreciate the colleagues and staff demonstrating a willingness to support a way to ensure equity. My approach to building a strong action plan. Ensures commitment to that equity. And we have left you know, my goal is to ensure that we leave tis public hearing. We leave meeting with shared commitments to adopt a resolution. What these clear next steps. And I also just want to say, I appreciate council PRESIDENT Jalali are councilmember an acre councilmember Gilles and also a council member Kim on really care rating. You know what equity in practice looks like. So one I was close with this. This is in terms of clear directions for me. And I want share with no word one. The pathway we're going forward. So one establishing a community-driven solutions right by council establishing and pointing and directing the ordinance is to include a ministry citations to a community equity representative body, right? That's very broad. And we want to make sure we have advisory group that can review and provide these recommendations. So we it's not just us, right. That community is driving this as well. Too, is on ensuring that we have strong harm reductions. Like I mentioned to you, my own lived experience like how can we make sure that doesn't happen to other families, right? How can we ensure that when I'm saying harm reduction, I'm not saying harm reduction for the big corporate bad guys, right? Because I think they deserve no sympathy. Talking about harm reduction for people who either have a bill. Pay are people who? Literally no needs education. And I firmly believe that within citations and with our process. That there's education right there is on the opportunities for them to learn about our policies and this ordinance. In this in this group. You know, a straight capital framework of fees and fines. That addresses the root causes and specifies tools for people who are unwilling versus people who - are unable. I want to be really, really, really clear. Like that's that's has always been my moral judgment every Wednesday we have no legislative hearings. We have, you know, make decisions. And I always have my eat. Those is governed by is this person unwilling or they able? And those need to be really, really clear. The 3rd action moving forward to ensure equity is making sure we have data and farm. Like today to inform decisions stepping into this. I I was you know what hoping that I was going see from the ministrations entire historical analysis of the impact of fines and fees so we can learn from the past so we can move for it effective way. So when things proposing in the resolution is utilizing our reparations commission who we voted on this council voted on last year for them to have funding to report that fines and fees should be part of report. And, you know, that should be that should be review across all city departments in last Less. Principal of ensuring equity is having a repaired of justice framework, ensuring that our citations cannot be used as a city revenue generator. That we seen bad practices of that and Ferguson. We seen that, you be as a tool that hrms black and brown people and no as a council member, you know, it is really important to me that we have those guardrails on it. I want to just make very clear. I trust the staff of our our city. I trust administration. Iknow that we care about equity. Also know that, you know, it's in the policy, right and good intentions creates a lot collateral consequences for people. So identifying, you know what, this repaired of justice framework, it would be used to identify mechanisms and where the fees and fines that are collected from these bad actors are going to go to repair the harm that has been cause. Whether it's from my renters, whether that looks like building more affordable housing, whether that looks like stronger tenant protections. But Ithink we can create this repaired a funding model that would be really powerful. And they'll say pa is in the city council's ready position in a place, a set presidents of having the most progressive administrative citations across the country. I think that's a standard that we can live up to. I think also to what all women council, I really want to hang our hat on equity, not just because majority women of color are all women, but could be actually put equity into practice. And we go to the Angela Davis show next year and have interview and champion about what we were able to get done this Thank you. Thank you, COUNCILMAN And I want to appreciate all of our members for weighing in on a lengthy public hearing. I look forward to basically codifying what you laid out in your vision that is coming clearly from your constituents from my constituents. I think we all heard had or have heard in some way or another from residents and all awards about how they want us to use this tool the right way. I look forward to crafting that within the next few days because I believe the community needs to see that work in public. There actually is work underway with this charter cange that has long running and we can take a step as council members to make that visible and to clarify, here is the path for moving on together. To your point is you so beautifully put it. The path must be paid with equity. Thank you for that. So if there's no other discussion on this matter, we've closed our public hearing. We are deeply grateful to our residents who came to to bring the stories to hold the tension and to do what we must do for our residents. So thank you very much, everyone for being here. ordinance is laid over to JANUARY 22nd for final adoption. Item. 26 I a public hearing of ordinance 25 Dash 3 McAllister college to rezone property at 16. 55 in 16 61 Grand Avenue and 37 McAllister Street from tee to traditional neighborhood to arm won multiple family and to rezone property at 53. 57 63 McAllister street from tea to traditional neighborhood to bp, vehicle parking and many chapter 16 legislative code pertaining to the zoning map. All right. We're on public hearing for item number 26. Is there anyone here to speak to this item? Item number? 26. Rick, you can for the next one over in So if there's no one here for this item, a motion from ms Jones to close public hearing and approved off their set. Me excuse me. Let me back If we need to lay this matter over. So let's take a motion from his just to close the public hearing. My apologies on favor say Aye, aye, any opposed 7 in favor nor opposed the public hearing is closed in. The ordinance is laid over to JANUARY second, 20 seconds for final adoption. Item 27 is resolution public hearing. 25 Dash 7 approving the Augustus corner. Final plats and variances of subdivisions design standards. All right. This is a public hearing on item number 27 and I believe establishes here and she wants to give a brief staff report. We welcome you and thank you for being here. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT And council members and Katie, the city plan the city's Department Planning and Economic Development? What's before you today is a final pat, which is a subdivision of land. And there are a couple of variances that are associated with that flat. If you have questions isn't going along, please feel free to jump in and ask those the plan itself is to create 5, residential, lots build 5 single-family homes. And that's from 3, lots currently and a plan is needed because 5, lots are being created. If this was for fewer, it would just be a lot split. They're the 2 areas that are associated with this Platt are coming directly to the city Council. These are coming to an appeal from the Board Zoning Appeals or the Planning Commission there before you today to consider and decide one of variances relates to requiring one of the lots it's being created to join an ally that's available and the other one relates to some pedestrian house number easements related related to the plateau. Get into the details of those as we move along. But just wanted to or real quick. To the area that we're talking about in the city. The area being planted is this northeast corner of Hart and whole. It's in Union Park neighborhood. Its 3 lots. They're currently vacant. There used to be 2 houses on a lot. One of the houses was demolished. Another one was moved to the law to the east, located here and the architect of that house was named Augustus Cager and the name Augustus Corner which is the name of the Platt is inspired by the name of that architect of that hole. So the actual property, that's the subject of the planning is shown in the picture on the left. This is it right at the corner of Michael Hart Hole and the one on on the right and the bottom is this a lot. But just from a few from Eichel Avenue, these are the corners pope, the other corners around the intersection, the one on the upper left is a single family home of the northwest. The one on the right is a duplex on the Southwest and the one on the bottom is a Masonic temple, which is in the southeast corner. This is the plan itself creating 5lot residential. Lots again for building size, single-family homes. You can see again. So I go hard. He's along here and hole is along here at the corner. Lot. And there's an ally to the north. There are 3 lots that are being created at the rear that will have access from the alley. Lots, 1, 2, 3, And then there are 2 lots that are fronting on iglehart number 4. And number 5, number 5 is the lot that doesn't join the alley towards the back here. And there's a shared driveway easements that's proposed provide vehicular access for bulls. For a lot, 5 fronting on Idol heart. There are some easements that are associated with this flat. And I want to just kind of walk through those with you a little bit. So this is a development plan for the 5. Lots. And so you can see again, lots 1, 2, 3, are at the rear along the alley and lots 4, 5 are fronting on Idol heart. There are easements for utilities that are proposed as part of this Platt and they are. for utilities, there are only sewer and water in heart avenue. There aren't any utilities and how will so that utilities have to come off? I do heart. And so there's one 20 wide utility easement that comes through this lot here to serve lot one. There's also another utility easement that's going to come through here kind of near that shared driveway that I mentioned earlier to serve lot, too. And then another 20 foot wide utilities that coming through to serve lot 3. So we've got those 3 lots in the subdivision standards require a 20 foot wide easement for utilities for pedestrian access in for host numbers that are visible from the street. But in this case, so we've got the utility easements that are required serving these lots, 1, 2, 3, However, the pedestrian access to the lots along the alley are in a separate easement not within the 20 foot easement and that it's a 5 foot testing is that that will cross lot want to get a lot too. And then we'll also cross lot to get to lot 3. And there's also a 3 foot-wide house number. It is to be able to provide visible at dressing for lots 2, 3, since they don't have frontage on the street. And so those are the variances that are needed. The slot 5 does not to join Ali. And testing only 5 feet and the house number easement is 3 feet and that easements are only supposed cross one lot. Ad as I said, this release that process to lots in order to get a lot 3. So those are variances that are required. These are the houses that are proposed for those back. Lots. In terms of the findings for the subdivision itself. Those are detailed in the staff report in staff finds them all to be met except for one. And that's a finding that says all applicable provisions of the legislative colder complied with. And these 2 variances are needed to make to be able to make that finding. So the one we through did to adjoining the alley and the other one related to the pedestrian and house number easements and the crossing of more than one lot. In terms the variances, the applicant identifies some unique circumstances that are guiding their site planning. And that includes the fact that there's no sewer and water, as I noted in Howell. So the utilities have to come off of Idol Heart Avenue. In addition, most of the lots in this neighborhood are north-south oriented. And that's what they're trying to achieve with the plan as well to try to be in keeping wth that. They point out that this development site is a large corner lot. And it's not a typical city lot that might have 40 feet of frontage and 120 or 30 or 40 feet in depth. And those are the bases upon which the design standards for lot splits or established and then finally and something I forgot to point no showing the is that there's an existing brownstone retaining wall that rap's most of the property on the corner and their intention of hoping to be able to preserve as much of that is possible. And turns of hardships for the The applicant points out that design standards for the subdivision ordinance are overly prescriptive. They point out that there are some encouraging income grew between the city's land, his policies which support and increased density and more housing just opposed against the state building and plumbing codes that are really driving the lot sizes. And the site plan here and they also identify some practical difficulties that result with this subdivision because they end up with 4 different what types in each of them has different requirements in terms of set back in. And all those sorts of tings. And then they also point out a common interest community model is is an alternative to a plant that they could pursue, but that that would increase the complexity and cost of homeownership for the lots that are to be created. And they point out that type of model would increase would would result in costly and complicated types of insurance and financing. Require larger down payments and add a perpetual burden on future homeowners and association for more paperwork and some annual filings. Their argument for the plan as planned is that there is that your driveway that I showed earlier lot, 5 to be able to have access rather than access from the alley. And that by doing that, that reduces impervious surface and functions as an ally for that fight. And that for a lot 5 to have to have a lex U.S. Would require more impervious surface and be redone dun and necessary and an inefficient use of land. They also point out that requiring those helps number and pedestrian access easements to overlap with the utility esements is overly prescriptive as a requirement, as is the requirement for having to cross only a single parcel. And then finally they point out that public works staff as well as the fire protection engineer reviewed and approved the Platte and the protests. The plans for taxes and the host number visibility. There are the 6 findings that are required for a variance they're listed here. There are detailed in the staff report and are reflected in the points that I made in the slide today in terms of hardship in uique circumstances. And so based the staff report findings, staff recommends approval of the variance to allow for that interior lot. 5 to be created. That does not join Ali. The variance to allow the pedestrian easement to be 5 feet wide and to go across 2 lots and to allow for the host of the easement to be 3 and staff recommends approval of the fat to create the 5 th 2 lots. There's a recognition for conditions related to filing and recording the plant, which means the county. Finally just add that Union Park District Council voted to support the variance and the Platte and there was one letter in support received and 3 letters in opposition to the variances that received. S that's all I have be happy to answer any questions you. No, very detailed. And then just in terms of what we're doing today, are we only get the public and are approving as well today or excuse me? Voting on approval today? Council PRESIDENT? I would expect that the council will hold a public hearing and vote today compared see Julie. That's correct. Okay. I just I always. I want to make sure okay. Any questions for Ms Douglas, before we move to the public hearing. Amazing. You absolutely floored us. We have no questions. Let's go to public hearing on item number. 27 is the public for 27 for your speak to this item. What you can do is stand between the 2 mikes. Let us know your name and your relation to this project. And then you'll love 2 minutes. Go hat. My name is Marc Elrich because they have the overhead turn on, please. If you are exhibiting something just right there on the spot from to the mikes and I'd like to activate its that we can see. All right. Go ahead. Your staff for misspoke. She said that there was 2 houses on these 3 lots. That's not true. The reardon's on this prop I live in 18 60. I and I got hurt. But it 96 the rare done zone needs for lot here at the time. It was to la to those 2 homes on the law. So Riordan's got all that moved in senior housing. They sold their property, do with the ball and want to sell their property developer. There is all kinds meetings because they want put up 28 unit apartment buildings. 2 boxes and everything else. And the rear of house was thought to be historically or architecturally significant. The city council and the neighborhood made a deal. I think 2018. They were going to give a Let them divide these lots. And these 2 lot into 4, which are under 50 feet. Which is a normal lot size on the block. They had to restore. So 18. 99 Iglehart is restored where House. 6, 7 years to get that done. Said empty for 3 years in prison. The property tax for a couple years now. They want to come back. So the deal was for lots for single family homes, for lots for single and Mahomes. We've got one single family home in 18. 99 iglehart. They - want to stick 5more homes on 3, lots. All I'm asking is. It's a city councils or anything. We have a deal. Or every 7 years just do it. Whatever te heck we want Thank you very much. All right. Thank you for your coming. And if you could just sign in for the public record, I do appreciate that as well. Alright, public hearings. Thank for Understood. Thank you for that. We're on item number. Are you here to speak to the same as well? Okay. Coming This is your public hearing and you will have 2 minutes anytime you're ready. Go ahead. Good afternoon. Council chair members of the council. John Madden, Equinox construction, Sony Mason. This with MAY. We've worked on this property for the last. For going on 5 years. We came to this property after several other developers. What a development walked away. We have been working the city of Saint Paul for over 40 years. We are primarily a single-family detached home builder. We bought the property. We lifted the 18, 19 dollars your house with Sonia's plans. Off its crumbling foundation front. One of the lot pt it out in the foundation. We work entire interior and sold to family. Took it as a detachable. We have 3 laps remaining. Those street lights could take 3 homes with 2 units in each. We decided not against against that because we like to build individual detached homes. Came up with a plan for 5. Individual homes. We spoke with numerous neighbors through this process which is gone over 3 years. And w came up with a plan in the house that looks like the houses in the neighborhood. And we would like to go ahead and build those. We objected to an owner's association because the owner onerous obligations of individual owners of only $5. These are 5 detached houses and 5, lots for 5. Groups of human beings to come in and live in this neighborhood. Think it's a good plan long and it. I thank you for your time. All right. Thank you for your people come in and make sure that you sign in for the public record. Okay. We're still doing a public hearing and item number 27. Is there anyone here speak to this item? Seeing none. A motion from is cam to close public hearing on favor say Aye. Aye. Any opposed. Okay. So I taking notes on the public hearing. I looked over the application. I am going to I guess address briefly that I find that the work of our staff and close consultation with the applicant have considered very carefully based on what we heard the way in which there are requirements that they want to do to maximize the highest best use on that site and that this Platt proposal is going to help them do that. I believe that it looks like we have a district council letter of support. So I am encouraged by the fact that this went through the District Council to it actually take a look at this land use proposal from what has been done in the past and look at that. I think to the comment that was made about previous agreement within the neighborhood and the District Council in the city. The whole point of being able to bring these back before us in a public process is to ensure we can adjust our neighborhoods to meet the housing needs that our communities are facing into the future. So because we have district Council support because we've been able to hear from staff and the applicant and our neighbors, the District Council on how these pieces have been carefully designed. I do feel comfortable granting approval. So I'm gonna make that recommendation. Are there any other comments from members right now? Okay. So with that, I would move approval on favor say Aye, aye. Any opposed. 7 in favor nor opposed the resolution is adopted. Item. 20 is resolution public hearing. 25 Dash 12. Authorizing the city to accept a grant of $805,139. And the U.S. Department of Transportation execute a co-operative agreement for the grant and to establish a corresponding budget for the grant in the city accounting system. All right. This is a public hearing on item number. 28, is there anyone here to testify to this item? Looking around, seeing none. A motion from MISS Maker to close the public hearing and approve on favor say Aye, Any opposed 7 in favor opposed the resolution is adopted. Legislative hearing consent agenda items. 29 through 54 before you for your consideration. All right. So we are welcoming Ms, Mormon for the rest of our agenda number, 29 to 54 to see which of these items need to be taken separately for today. Good evening as and I turn it over to you. 2 items that I'm aware of that we need to pull for today. The first is item. 39. Item 13 isr Lage rsa. 24 dashed. Well, appeal of James w Bush and Linda d Deer tenants to rent, stabilization determination at 39, one Hazelwood Street apartments, 10 11. All right. So let's take a staff report first. Go ahead. Comes PRESIDENT Council members. This meant. Increase application made to the Department of Safety and inspections seeking an 8% increase with the South certification. What happens is one goes online, fills out the basic numbers. And if it gets a very brief staff review and it is approved if that brief review comes, you know, matches what numbers that should be to come up with that. When an appeal is filed has happened in this case, we ask for the full set of numbers and that's called I the maintenance of net operating income worksheet. And that is a part of the record that is reviewed by staff individually. So not unlike a staff determination. When staff reviewed it, they said, well. This isn't asked for 8%, but if we were to treat it like a staff, determination, they would qualify for a little over 9%. That wasn't asked for. That's not what's going to go out. What was asked for was 8. I worked with staff review the numbers in the application for the rent increase and it is my recommendation that the council allow up to an 8% rent increase couple of notes for your background. First. This is a an application that was made not all that long ago. The thing is it would apply to the next lease on this isn't going inside an existing lease. There's some back and forth in the attachments in the minutes. Where there isn't clarity on that point, the most recent which for one of the appellants was executed at the beginning of AUGUST included a 3% rent increase, which is allowable without going through the city and included 8 and increase for Te garage is in front of you is that and there's some discussion and hearing like should those have come through separately? Or is that really something that should come through together? And it is my recommendation of those things be considered together. I have in the letter this attached to your record. We have a revised letter dated JANUARY 7th. That does include estimates on what the current rent is and what the parking is. There's estimates that came back from the appellant with different numbers. I look at them again and learn from the landlord that the rent increase went into effect for the garage space on AUGUST first. So we have a different set of starting numbers to tell you the truth. Numbers. Great to know and they give context and what they really tell us at the bottom. Bottom line. But I look at it is these are extremely affordable apartments. You know, this what I calculated it out affordable at 30 to 35% of reach on median income. So I think that that that is kind of mark that I would use and just evaluating at. Again, what is in your resolution allows the 8% increase and that is inclusive of all housing services, including parking. So what is set forward as 2 different documents or come to together? When the rent increases calculated? That there was a question that came up. If it's 8% rent increases Does this change my 3% lease? It does not. That is the least that has been signed. It's place unless the tenant and landlord agree to something else that is the this action that you would take today says that the next lease would allow up to an 8% rent increase. This case, it would be the least that comes forward in AUGUST. So that is a difference that you should be aware of. Also. The property owner. Is still here. Yes, they are here. And I do believe we have one of the tenants to maybe 2 to tell Yes. Here to testify as well. I would add this is a request that the landlord me she is intending to sll. This holding and I believe one or 2 other holdings that she has. She has similar buildings in the neighborhood to others and end. She is doing this because she is long past. What other people have is the retirement age. And she wants to hang up you know Spurs move onto the next chapter in her life. So the tenants also one at had complaints about some housing quality issues. What I would note is that the fire certificate of occupancy, which was conducted most in. APRIL of 23, gave it a class, a rating and that the information I saw does not indicate that there should be any change. Some complaints were filed the week prior to the hearing certified mail. And I don't believe those have been investigated. I think that those need separate investigation. One had to d is low heat and there wasn't in the photos that are in your record. I think adequate documentation to make a finding that those temperatures were taken where they shouldn't be taken. If you're a fire inspector, checking it. And honestly. I I'm not that fire inspector to make that finding in the council is in that place either. That is something that would need to be taking into account separately. Given the class a rating. I think that that is adequate to say this building is in good shape and has been in good shape for a while. The last known I would make is that was a comment and some of the correspondence that. The letter that talks about the background, the letter I generated on JANUARY 7th. Has numbers in it. 2 clear what those changes would be. And I specifically put that in there. I don't normally do that. But illustrate how the parking and the rent could be combined together. 2 come up with an 8 per Cent Edition. The cncern on the part of the of Hope was that the council will be adopting those specific numbers by reference when adopting this resolution and the resolution and no way shape or form references the documents that are attached to it. Those are attachments for informational purposes. As you consider the matter in front of you, this is not like a zoning map that's attached to a zoning ordinance for example, where you are attacked. You know, you are voting on that. I referenced. This is not that situation. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them now after testimony. Any questions for Ms Mormont so one question I have right now for you just generally about what the ordinance says is that it's my understanding, I guess I just tried to reread it and literally in the rents tables I mean the ordinance, right? I mean that thing. So I thought housing services is defined as and there's a number of things in it. And within it did us a vehicle parking spaces. So it is captured definition. Additionally rent is defined this is how much your rent is. That is defined in Alice. Its rent is rent and I remember when we adopted those definitions, it was important. So that we could ensure that it was really clear that every expense that a landlord is charging is made visible. Whether that you know, utilities other services or parking and that those are separate from rent. So my question is. If they're separated in the ordinance, why are able to be combined in the exception process? Is that does that question make sense? Yeah, it 2 things. One is that when housing services defined in the ordinance. It does include parking vehicle parking spaces as a part of So that is about peace with that. I think this case in particular is complicated because the rented space is rental. It is not pass. Associate of the parking lot attendant would choose to rent the garage and I would say that might be in a fashion like one would pay a pet deposit one were having a pet from apartment. And I think that that was the understanding people were operating You got free parking over here. But if you want Rights then there's this extra amount. That parking has been part of what the tenants have had 4 many, many, many years. Would say that the reading of the ordinance, in my view. is not clear that it differentiates between a parking lot and a garage. So all I would say call call, make that ambiguity called on behalf of the tenant and keep that the calculation so that that where I'm coming from with the recommendation. Yeah, the answer your question. I'm sorry. I I and I lost it in that code. Then looking at. But in the housing services definitions, it says vehicle parking spaces. And I read that as a reasonable person to be the space is the space. And so I understand in the real world that creates different things. So I'm just I am still here in this case. And what learning all this real-time, some simply thinking aloud. If you want to make sure we can do a public hearing. And I also want to make sure that at least from my own understanding with the ordinance and te changes that we added to it, that I am grounded in that. So with that, are there any other questions for ms Mormon right now? Ok? So we are going to move to the public hearing portion. And I believe each part party wants to give input on this gets 2 minutes. So let's go to the public hearing. This is a public hearing for item number. 39. And if you'd like to testify on this item, we welcome you to come in. Give your public comment. Welcome. Coming up you're here for number. 39, ok, great. And if you could, also just you'll stand between the 2 Mike phones. Let us know your name and then your connection to the situation. And then we welcome your input and feedback for 2 minutes. Go ahead. MAY it please? The council? My name is Jim Bush. I am a tenant at 13. 91 Hazelwood Street and I've been there for 23 years. When I first read it, the apartment. It was combined discussion, negotiation for a garage space and apartment. And it's and they were both pain in the lease that started my kind see. The security deposit is a broken that it covers both. And for the last nearly a quarter century been paying one check. 4, the combined rent for the apartment and the garage. The housing ordinance is really straw. It starts by saying. Includes but not limited to and then provides 18 examples. One of which is vehicle parking space. And if that wasn't sufficient. The ordinance goes further. Ototototototototototototototototototototot Connected with the use or occupancy there's pretty one the AUGUST 1st, the AUGUST argument is that come by before the 3% was was lie thaccess ever since when the just ask the council to reimburse us for the excess charge since we've been pay. And lei recommendation letter also indicates that with that ration, our explanation, a $25 increased. Our 33% increase the grage while adding it in the new example that you provides in the recommendation letter. That's but that is a a a problem because it essentially ratifies the earlier wrongdoing. See my time is up that I'd like to comment further, but it's not. i understand. Do we do people get 5 minutes or 2 2. Okay. All right. So it sounds like you're asked is can you just restate your asking one sentence? I want to make sure we get that for the record. I'm sorry. I did not hear that. Could you restate what your request is in one sentence? I heard you say you want them separated. Not much. Can you just say that one more time? Sure. I believe. That the. $25 increase imposed by the hearing officer for the garage, beef beef is should be stricken. Really sould 8% on both department and the garage together. It's like it's like this and can provide quick. So I just I atually can't because I want to enforce the public unfairly, but did get I just wanted to make sure I understood your request. And could you. Make sure that you sign in that we can capture that to. Right. I really appreciate your time. Thank you for clarifying, ok, we here to take our next comment on this. And so welcome to public hearing. Thank you for being love to end it there. I live across the hall from Kim. And when we went to the first hearing, my impression was that it would be a combine. 3% from when it was raised AUGUST. First, an additional 5%. Increase in the round to equal percent. Not 2 separate 3% and an additional 8% or 11% total in or out. Yes, the garage did go up. 33%. And if the bride is allowed to go up an additional 33% in less than a year's time, that means our rent will be increased. 77%. In a year. This is how line looking at it. 33% wife and a garage and another 8%, 11% increase route to me that length of an 87% in one year. So so that you still have about a minute. But what is your request to the council today? What would you post that? That was point. I wanted to make it not that it was 3% and 5% to equal percent. For the combined just that it was going to be 8%, and the additional 3 part of that. So thank you. So you simply want to just want to bring that to our attention. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And make sure that you sign it. Appreciate it. All right. We are still on the public hearing for this item. So is there anything or any other members of the public want to comment? Get welcome. Come on up. All right. Welcome you. And we appreciate you being here. You just can stand right there between the 2 mikes like you are. And it'll pick up your sound than just let us know your name and we're coming from today and you'll have 2 minutes if we could restart the time he and my name and Jennifer Brown and Penelope around you know, do you mind I just want make sure you get your time. So let's make sure the clock is with you and then sorry about that. Want get She's got it for you. But it wasn't fixed. So now you can go with that. My name Jennifer Brown then out the brown that so I knew in their maintenance and all of a building. And then into money for you now. And I just wanted say how much I love Atlanta, how much I'm dedicated to land island and learn every Couldn't family appliances to London, working to William Ayers to. It MAY have them on and the pass those savings on to the tenants. And that was article in Vogue of events to be a servant mankind, to help people him beautiful homes they can be proud So I spent the last 23 roughly 24 restoring building. Department MAY have They're very beautiful, Andrea picture that I that feeling years and every turn and it never done. And Brett, I win the day I was so concerned about is heating when I having surgery on that. Well, and here with my money. But I was concerned about is the thing then and then my operation. I went there in the very next day, which a brat. And took pictures of the hating me as I can allow the pipes to freeze in the building that cause great destruction. That just. Would never want to happen to this building that and this is where their life mind that is giving out. My mother is 81 and on and names you want know that the next people can take care of people have that. That I have to hire them money. Then I and higher committee. Carrying this loaded by myself with my best friend. And we work so diligently and we nothing. But the best for when Dudley we have a rating that Billotte things. We have 18% under market value. And as we can that ask for help. Didn't know this inflation and happened. We hand them a good to building and I want to make sure I can capture what you want us to do. So since you are at your time, could you tell us what you want us to do and that we care about them and we went to free help unless we desperately that. And we were at that point where we to for help. I understand. All right. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. If you could just sgn in, we really appreciate you being here to give your public comment. So we are still in a public hearing for number. 39, is there anyone else here to speak to this item looking around? So if not a commotion from MISS Yang to close public hearing on favor say Aye, any opposed. Let's go first to MISS Yang for direction. And then I did see members have some questions. So let's start with MISS Yang. Go ahead. Well, I first just want to say that am not prepared to make a decision today on this. I'm interested in laying this over to next peak. I do have a question for Marshall Boise here in the the letter from the key points from the appellants of the vote here that the opponents are asking the city Council to order that the rent for appellants vehicle parking space be combined with the rent of the rental units before application of the maximum rent percentage allowed. So he just clarify for says that's me that the city Council can determine. I don't like, can we can we deter from your recommendation at all? You explained your decision-making. And so I'm trying to understand like basically what we as accounts able to do when it comes to the ordinance. I was hearing 2 different but they were being conflated. First is a complaint about the rent increase and garage space. That the effectively discussed AUGUST first and saying that that was not in compliance with the city ordinance. The second thing I heard was discussing. What comes forward for AUGUST 4th? First of 25. And this would be setting a maximum now that would be allowable as a percentage for 2025. Is that decision that's in front of you today. Going backwards in time to discuss the garage and the rent and decisions that were made in AUGUST. If they are in violation of the city's rent, stabilization ordinance. That is appropriately investigated by the Department of Safety and Inspections. Should that be requested? But that isn't something that's in front of the city council today to deal with the language specifically in the ordinance. Also legislative hearing officer recommends denial of the appeal allowing 8% increase in rent, inclusive of parking as a housing service. So those are. I believe that language says caught them together. All right. Any other questions for ms Mormon right now? Go ahead. MISS Johnson. Yeah, I just want clarify question this moment. Okay. So the recommendation from villages that appearing officers allow U.S. To deny the appeal because the decision at hand was 8% rental increase, inclusive of parking. Is that correct? Kind of what I'm hearing. You say as well. So as per the ordinance it was inclusive of parking cause, I think one of the questions that I heard was is that included like is the parking fee and as well. So is the increase in all of that. There's a lot of different a. Percentage points. But I think overall it's that from this previous cycle, least to the next one is there's an 8% increase. Inclusive of whatever increase would be made to the parking. I can definitely about. For example, if the and this is not if the tenants rent is $750. And the parking as $100. We have 850 as the current rent, the current base of housing services, the 8% increase would be applied to that amount of money. So that is that. And tat but at the top of my head, I can't do that. Share from the 7th be exactly is 7.50 plus the parking at 108, 50 and then. To get the accurate percent multiplied by 1.8. Any other questions for his Mormon right now? Okay. So busying, it sounds like you would like to considerably over to you opinion or desired amount of time to leave this matter next week. Okay. So you just want a week. Okay. All right. So a motion for missing latest matter. Over for one week. I would support that. I think there are some unique facts of the situation that would give us all time to really absorb and also for our COUNCILMAN Is where this is happening in to really dig into those details. So with that motion for Mis Yang to lay this over for one week. All in favor say Aye, aye. Any opposed 7 in favor opposed resolution is laid over to - JANUARY 22nd. All rght. So we're still on items. 29, 54 and taking items separately for consideration as Mormon. Is there any other item you want us to take separately today? Excuse Yeah. Have too many windows I know that. The other one is item number 47, 10 66 Stenson. And a 37 is our latest. He a 24 dash 3.86. Try to find the appealed special tax assessment for property at 10. 66 Stenson Street. Okay. So let's a take item. 47 and focus on what's at hand Women what you want know about this one. This is a case where there was an order clean up and I have on screen the actual order that was sent. And it is a part of your record. So it's easier to look there. It is. There what this says and it shows a picture of the back corner of a garage with. Chair mattress. Like thing of plastic kind of thing. And it simply says, please remove and to properly dispose of the mattress Office chair and miscellaneous debris. At the rear of the property. what happened was that? material was removed around the corner of where it was. So about where you see the boot and the lower left-hand corner. That's the corner of the garage that would have been facing the alley and the items removed from their and placed on the side of the garage. The question becomes is tat actual removal from the rear of the yard or movement within a rear of the yard? I would say in my view that that is movement within the rear of the art. In the case, what actually taken care of when the contractors arrived? Sorry aout that. When the contractors arrived, took some photos. This is what they had upon arrival and There's a photo here of what was removed. So we have evidence of the cleanup having collected. The owner that he didn't understand difference between those 2 things thought that the rear meant the rear of the garage, not the entire rear of the stated me order. There isn't a history of having hat issues at this location. So previous history reading these orders to dealing with these orders in the past. I do think I do think that this might be one of those situations where it's. Could it have been read that way? But should have been read that way? No, not my view. However, giving some credit there was an effort made. And I think that it was made. In good faith. My recommendation would be a reduction of the assessment I there are no same or similar violations and that reduction would be by half. And the date for determining whether they're same or similar would be. APRIL 16th of 25 such just a couple of months. So I can tell you this is the only violation on record. So I would say when I look at these, it's extremely likely that he will be looking at assessment to be cut half come APRIL. Any questions for ms Mormon right now. And I want to make sure that had use of 47 right? 47 cse. Okay. I just didn't I don't know why. Understood. Okay. So this is a public hearing on item number. 47, is there anyone here to speak to this item? 47, okay. Welcome. Thank you for your patience. Coming up and stand between the 2 microphones and that'll pick up your sound nice and easy and then let us know your name. And I believe you'll have 2 minutes. Go I name is Daniel Vasquez. I am the owner. Of House. First time homeowner. I live there with my wife and 2 young children, as you can tell by the various playthings and they when we got the letter initially, I will admit I scan through it and I I think I only picked up removed the items from the rear of the house. I took that very literal and meant reassure where they were the very rear, the garage, te alleyway site I got it. I moved it to I thought was a to b appease that letter. We had renovations planned that we were going to order a dumpster and Henri Baxter. So I and my on our throw that stuff in there. And that would be that the very next week. I was surprised, too. See all the items I had their removed, some of which were not to be disposed. There was a sink there that I was going to get to my brother because it just bought a house. With that and there is a few pieces. A are there that I was also at plans for and so I was very surprised when I got very large bill. On that and just felt like it was very unjust. So you could tell one of the items that was asked to be removed. I put it back in the yard and they didn't even take that. So I was just very frustrated and upset and angry. Just a you know, that. It was misunderstanding on my piece on what the rear the house stood for. I back property means we're was alleyway unsightly. I get it. Want to put it on my property. As you can tell the team there would have been a fence there have not taken it down. No one would ever seen it. That's I guess my ask is yes, eyesight. i was proposed with the half, but considering they also took things that they weren't supposed to take. I don't see why I would have to pay for that. So that's the part that upset me the most is and now I have to go To my brother, I don't have for anybody to go find one. So that's just my piece. Under said, all right. Thank you for sharing that. It's going to the stand for being And if have questions for let you know. Thanks and thanks for setting in public until going on number. 47, anyone else here to speak to this item looking around. So doesn't look like there So let's take a motion from Ms Johnson to first close. The public hearing on favor say Aye. Sorry. Lead with I'm just I'm just like randomly suggesting people motion just mixing it to us. Okay. So with the enthusiastic motion from Pulse. And then yet as look to you any direction you want to take on this matter, go ahead. Yet what Alexander right. Our Daniel Daniel yet yet. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you so much from Russia for the recommendation. I really appreciate. And we have a process in my office where I get chance to review our show so we Have a sense you know, lock into and let's all things to be considered. We'll just see the looking at this. I can see where it can on us. You know, mistake overview around just where to have the put the put the items that right and seems like this quite a few things in this backyard. But from my understanding, it the things that were ordered to be move facing the alleyway. So was I guess, since it says it has to be removed off of the property. There wouldn't have been anywhere where you could put it at for it to be in compliance or would it? Like? I just don't understand. And understand like removed from the property. But if it's like on the side of the house are it's like behind the garage. Just wondering where those parameters and how we're interpreting that. I would and have interpreted it that if it says removal from rear yard. I would take that from the rear plane of the House. Back to the back of the parcel this back of the parcel is the alleys right of way. So that's been my interpretation of it. You commented just briefly on the nature of the items taken and I would say. To distinguish their items that are built okay to be outdoors. And there are other items that are clearly bill to be on the interior of the home. Like the mattress or some chairs. You know, those are interior items and those are the ones that were taken in turquoise. As I look at it here in the photograph, that looks to me like an item that would be okay on the extra year and they try not to remove those. So. Swing sets, you know, like rakes lot more things that are next to your items are not removed. And that big sets appreciate the clarity and in from the. Sanding at share that there was seeing can somewhat. But I don't see that picture. Looks like it's blue item. The mattress in this chair is what was. In the photo. As directed to be removed. And, you know, I just you know, do you know, get chance to look at the meeting note, it looks like there was consideration of this special circumstance and there's been a reduction of that. Fine. I you able to share. I don't see it on here is that we know what that. What that amount is. I just see that there's approximately 260 per hour. I think that's connected to. Billing rate for invoice. I don't see that in place just check. So Kim excavating who has the contract to do private property cleanups sends a duly invoice with all of the properties that were done on a particular day in the invoice for this day, they had to specific fees. One general rescue switch was $59. To me $51 and a mattress fee of $35. Then they would divide up hours that their staff Unfortunately, they don't divide it. According to they divide evenly by property. One property MAY have taken longer than other properties. And I think that's flawed. That will need to be addressing moving forward with these contracts. this would be the minimum fee regardless. So it might have been experienced with other properties, but not with this one inside its. Would have heard if at all favor of the owner. looks like so there's a 51 to 35 that combined is 86. But you're saying is not just assessing the 86 that percentage. Oh, yeah, the top row and invoice is talking about all the hours worked by the contractor that day. And so they take that number on the top divide it. One option that might be available to based on the comments that you're making as that if there's no same or violations, the council could choose. Obviously the cut in half. This to my recommendation, the council could believe it today. The council could say no same or similar and will delete it entirely come APRIL. You know, so there's there's obviously the council has all to discuss this matter. Okay. Well, I sake of time, I think, well, again, I still don't have a number you're saying you don't have a number because it's based off the percentage right there. So just trying to clear it. I could go back and get some research done on it. But we are in the business of decipher ing these these days. It's not the easiest thing in the world to figure out enforcing system. All So what we put those options and maker has a possible question or suggestion. Go ahead. Thanks, council PRESIDENT And really I know you've done the most research into this. And so I really respect your thoughts on this. But I would just say for myself hearing the testimony and, you know, we don't often see a property owner first-time homeowner did comply with what we asked them to It seems like an honest misunderstanding. If the homeowner had been purposely trying to not comply, then they wouldn't have moved anything anywhere at all. So fact that all of those items removed 2 MAY suggest this is someone who really wanted to do the right thing. And given that there's no previous history of any violations at all. And given that it sounds like some items were taken that were of value to the homeowner where if a claim were filed against the city for that, I'm sure we would be talking about a lot of time. A lot of effort and maybe. Compensation anyway for those items I would be in favor of believing that assessment entirely. If there are no same or similar APRIL. Thank you. Thank you. That's why in a Also want support that motion. I think that's a great recommendation. I want to hear from my Yeah, I yet given the fact that came you share your story, you did make a good faith Now you learn shape, right? They'll never of year But I think this is learned in the way where I feel comfortable moving forward with that type of motion. All right. So sounds like there's a motion from council. We would support to delete the assessment and I'm scene. MISS Johnson want to speak game. So let's in just your hands just by your head, ok? So we're going to Johnson. We're going to Mss Yang. Governor Johnson, thank I appreciate the discussion. Thank you, councilmember. Care for the that suggested I was kind of internally thinking the same and I'm glad to hear that accounts for Bill is moving the motion. It's, you know, just simply say I'm not gonna turn around because he's behind behind you. But I want to make sure that folks here watching at home can also hear that too. I mean, he sat through 3 hours of a city council meeting to talk to the space like to think that there's a continued effort of good faith in that. Regardless of how this has gone through. I think I'm in also amenable to that meant kind of keep it through APRIL 16th. Eat. Ad if there's no other efforts, then. We're going to reduce that in this instance. I think it's ok that if have it here as well as a first-time homeowner, I know that there's when you get those letters, it's a different type of experience reading through it and trying to figure out what's and compliance and what's not. Maybe a little confusing. So. As you go ahead. And got a chance to just come to the summary payment order. And I have a couple of just really minor suggestions. I love to. Sheriff commercial. Maybe we can share that over to dsi. Just to clarify or make the language more clear that we there isn't any confusion at all. Removal of the items. I did have a question around just the fees. Can you share that to us cause? I remember during the first term we had a couple of these come up in number one of my colleagues always saying is that it was because the work is already done. And then that's why the U.S. Has the fee. So it has to matter what. So if there was a reduction where if there is a deletion of the assessment, can explain who foots the bill for that then or is it that there is no financial impact too? As being the city. 2 things I think I have now the total out for having done the work, inclusive of the fees and that is $216 had the work been done by the parks and It would have been. You see they're all fees about $295. So there's the difference you're seeing there. What happens when the council decreases or eliminates the assessment? That is something that's picked up by the general taxpayer. However, part of the council's role in this process is to clean up the assessment rules, you know, not let mistakes get through. If you believe in your authority that there is a mistake or something needs to be reinterpreted, that is a part of what you must also And so that. You wouldn't call that against a person because the general taxpayer would doing City makes mistakes telling them city interprets in the gray area where you MAY not interpret it the same. So. Thinks that's a really helpful explanation. I would say that it where I'm Annie fr this is that I want first off. I really appreciate the recommendation from you or should is very generous. Because of what we heard from the testifier, though I am inclined to Dilley assessments and I don't feel it's necessary for us to have any sort of time frame for it because it, you in terms of to history at this property, they haven't had any other violations that also I'm not sure comfortably if you had a motion are ready, but if she did, that would be my my friend, the amendment to clarify it would be to deletion of this moment. Yeah. So I support that that we should. I think that's what customer in a car brought forth. Support that. I also want to share on record to cause. I think part of your recommendation Marr Show was like if there wasn't any recurrence of this, I think we dated that was in APRIL. It something that was on And again, I think that just needs to be clear to around just. Making sure is having best practices. But it sounds like a MR. Daniel understands that. So if I can, you know, get that consensus in support from my colleagues, I would definitely left for us vote on that. Okay. So sounds like you're making a motion to just delete the assessment today. Is that your motion, ok? I will, you know, I see an argument to support I is that we did today or with the pending d the APRIL 16th. So we could structure it either deletion today or deletion if by this date Aril 16th, there are no same or similar. We could do either. Well, I guess. Yeah, just to beach. And because even if there was something you come before us anyways, like the Abbey, I mean? Who wouldn't? Making a difference? So yeah. All right. Here stole deletion. Okay. Okay. All right. Any discussion on the matter before we vote? Okay. Motion from is buoyed to delete the assessment on favor. Say Aye, Any opposed. 6 a Reno and oppose the resolution is adopted to be amended to delete that. The assessment. And thank you, Neal, for being in the longest meeting ever for your time. I appreciate. All right. Council PRESIDENT, there is one more on item. Let's let's go ahead with that. And tank you. Item number, 44. Item 44 sarli are are 24 dash. 52 ordering the raising of removal of the structures at 17 84 Norfolk Avenue. Within 15 days after the JANUARY, 15th City Council public hearing. Council PRESIDENT 17 84 Norfolk has then and the registered vacant building program since SEPTEMBER of 2013, it is currently owned by Stone Bridge Land Acquisition, llc. We conducted a legislative hearing DECEMBER 10th to review the case and he or any proposals for demolition or rehabilitation of the structure. There was no attendance at the legislative hearing by anyone. We did note on the record that notification of the hearing was sent by personal service and was signed for so there was definitely clear notice of the matter. I understand we have a receives an e-mail and understand Department of Safety inspections also receive communication that Stone Bridge wants to have some additional time in order to be able to consider whether it wants to demolish or to rehabilitate the structure. As I said, that's normally something we would deal with prior to it coming to the city council. if. this were to be a rehab situation, I invariably say that if they have posted $5,000 performance, deposit it if a co compliance application has been made, that that is showing there is skin in the game, if you well, they're they're in this and doing things that has not happened. Nor have we received information about a demo contractor being hired outside. The fact that in the email it said that they to come back expensive. So at this point, I don't have anything to hang my hat on it except to say that this has been a registered vacant building for a long time. There have been 35 summary abatement orders issued since it went into the registered vacant building program. 8 of those required reporters given the long duration of it having been in there, there has been. No communication or the intent to take one action. Another took the remover repair resolution to alissa's this particular conversation. So hopefully That's what I have. And just so that I can catch it when we're times it's been a long night. What is your recommendation today? My recommendation is for the council to order the building removed within 15 days with no options for its rehabilitation. Thank you. All right. So we are on public hearing for item number. 44. This is looking on this issue. If you're here speaking side, we welcome you to come on up. You'll have 5 minutes because it's for more severe penalty. So you can just come stand between these 2 microphones. If you let us know your name, your connection to this issue. And then you'll have 5 minutes to give us your public comment. Welcome go Get anything Council. Thank you very much. My name is Rock and I'm with Stone Bridge communities. And I represent my client Storm, Bertha acquisitions in the letter, I don't know if you have a chance to review it. 20 2.23 years ago, the city was working with owner of that property. 2. Take down the whole block to build another multi-family development. That after good faith by my purchase, that property. And ended Talks for the houses Sixt. So he was left with It's a small lot. It's 4520, not a lot of options with to do it. He overpaid for the lot for the home at the time. Since then, he's maintained the home complied with all of it orders. There was a MISS Steps from the communication from our office, too 10 on the 10th. I would have been there at that meeting the 1th and ask for an extension on demolition. The city is from what I understand. City just got bids for the demolition of the home. We have yet to see that were told that they would share that with us if their bids came in lower, that we could be able to use those contractors. Worst of our contractors throughout the Twin Cities. We have last summer homes to this and a fraction of the cost. The costs are coming in at $46,000 for us to move the house in other cities for paying 5 to $10,000 to remove similar style house you know, we we've creek West this extension so we can review what the city is. Bizarre. That's more affordable to be able demolish the House. Otherwise we would like see if we could preserve this house, bring it back into housing stock and sell it you know, this honor has been good, good steward of the land. He is known throughout the city of Saint Paul. We have over 1250 home or apartment homes that have built in rent. Some of those are affordable. Some of those are senior housing so at this time we would request just an extension. So can we do with the city had for their beds so we can obtain some beds for preservation of the You know, from everything her have earlier item. 24 25 or however, there's a meeting, affordable housing is needed, you know, preserving this house would a step towards that as well. W would just request that we could have traditional time. Just 2. I can either reviewed the city's it's a war, obtain some of its 4 preservation. And it sounds like you're saying that your top pass this time. Okay. All right. Thank you for your for being here. And for also waiting for very end of the meeting. if there's nothing else just couldn't sign. And we appreciate your public comment. Okay. Anyone else here to testify to this item number. 4, so seeing none the motion from Ms Jones to close the public All yeah. Motion was just close public hearing on their say Aye. Aye. See that time I thought was mixing it up to. But this is item. Okay. So I just I'm trying okay. This just looks you for direction on at the eu Council PRESIDENT. And thank you for your testimony apreciated. First thing through. This meeting and I think, you know, based the information provided what I've heard from our shed like I'd like to move the recommendation of a legislative hearing. Officer. Any discussion on that motion? So motion is just is to move the recommendation of a legislative hearing. Are on their say Aye, any opposed 6 know. All right. 5 in favor. One oppose being councilmember believe the resolution is adopted. All right. Thank you. And we are looking to the rest of the public hearing items Numbers excuse me. 29 to 54. It's warm and anyone else who testify in any of these to take separately. 29 to 54, not to my knowledge. Ok? So this is a combined public hearing on the rest of our agenda for today. 29 54. There anyone here to testify to items looking around to be extra sure, seeing none. A motion from is believed to close the public hearings and approve on favor say Aye, aye, any opposed. 6, a favorite. No one opposed to public hearings are closed to the consent agenda adopted as amended. All right. And that brings us to the end of our long but very worthwhile All of our needs are worthwhile. But this one felt extra productive. And if there's nothing else to come before us, we are adjourned.