##VIDEO ID:https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/4991?view_id=37&redirect=true## justice for all. Consent agenda items 5 through 17, every for you for your consideration. All right. I'm not aware of any items were taken separately from consent or their new request to take items separately from the consent agenda. All right, seeing none MISS Yang would move approval of the consent agenda all favor say Aye. Any opposed 6. A favor known opposed. The consent agenda is adopted. Item. 18 is resolution. 24 dash 14. 58 to care declaring OCTOBER is domestic violence Aareness Month. All right. I can get us started with this very important item. I wanted to take a moment with our council and at the council table 2 knowledge that OCTOBER is domestic violence awareness Month as part of this every year we take a moment and we acknowledge the crucial and important services that see Paul Ramsey County domestic abuse intervention sometimes known as provide to our residents during some of their greatest times of need. Spin is a non-profit grassroots community-based organization and it was founded in 1984 to victims of domestic violence. They provide direct services to victims and they work within the criminal justice system to transform its response to domestic abuse and their success stems from the belief that victims and their children have the right to be safe in their homes and communities. And that in order to be effective, vital services must be brought directly to victims. Really grateful to spend because of all of the services that they provide, including confidential and compassionate, direct advocacy safety planning legal support, transition support, resource sharing and more. I want to thank your partners who are here with gift today for your dedication and tireless efforts to support families across our city. Well, in a moment, welcome up. Executive director Shelly Klein. She'll accept the resolution share. A few words will take some comments from council members and vote and then Tricia, we also do you get a photo and so do is going to tell us where that picture is happening. But just so, you know, are headed here. That is how we'd like to take this time to acknowledge that's important month. And one of our most important partners with that, please welcome executive director, Shelly Klein with advocates and attorneys. They're going accept the resolution and share a few words. Thank you very much. PRESIDENT And members of the City Council. I'm being joined today by Miami's I co workers, advocates and attorneys. Each year we provide multicultural, multilingual services to over 6,000 victims. When victims reach out to us for services, they're usually living in genuine fear and tear fearful for their lives and often have no place to call. I jst wanted to share a few statistics with you. First. Want to say the victims that we 4 years. The majority of them have dependent children 10% over 10% were acutely homeless when really reached out to us for services. Over 72% identify indigenous and people of color. 6% identify as lgbtq a plus 19% for new immigrants. And 4% had a physical or mental disability. And most almost all poverty level when attempting to flee the use of situation. Now agency is very blessed very closely with our community-based partners to us that owns the United Women's Advocates, Asian Women, United Eagle's nest to name a few as well as our same poll in Ramsey County government alleys. What we do it together is we create a holistic response to domestic violence. Examples of our community efforts are bridges to safety. That's here in the courthouse. A walk-in service center victims of domestic abuse. And we just created a multicultural. Mental health service model that joins victim service providers to mental health providers in serving vctims with government including the same pop police department and the city attorneys office we have created the national blueprint for safety to ensure justice systems protect all victims of abuse. It's a firearms prohibition model to deter the use of guns and critically harming victims this last year, over 50% domestic homicide to pop the firearm. And the homicide prevention team which joins all of us together to reduce domestic homicides in the city of Saint Paul. And we have been successful. So it's no surprise that same policy recognizes as a national model. And I have to say, I mean, was U.S. And all of you before me for city council members who have fearlessly and continuously. Sent a message throat or community that domestic violence will not be tolerated. That all victims and their children deserve access to safety and services. And that every member of our community has value and the right to be safe in their own homes and neighborhoods. Thank you because each and every one of you does every day. Thank you is quite different. I look now to my colleagues for any other comments before we vote on this item. Go ahead. MISS Yang Things, Council PRESIDENT. I just really want to say thank you all so much for the work that you do. It spend so helpful to my office to be able to have that be the first point of resource that we can night constituents with. So when they call in about experiencing domestic abuse. And s I want to sy thank you, the stats that you shared are chilling like I get goose bumps, just even hearing it thinking about it. And it's very ral to And, you know, I I think about some of the you know, if getting where have a constituent who is experiencing domestic abuse. And they say to me, I don't want to be a statistic and it's very you know, it just is what your uplifting Really the experience that so many folks are going through as they want to say. Thank you all so much for your work. It's really important. And so I really proud to be a co-sponsor to this and continue supporting your organization Thank you, MISS So I saw as Billy and then I'll go to Ms Johnston. Go ahead, MISS Billy, thank you. Council PRESIDENT, I just want to say again, thank you so much for making sure bringing awareness. Thank you for your courageous leadership and also uplifting. Your your clients are supporters, people who are like you mentioned, beat Warriors. when I first was elected, actually my first community organization. Meeting was with you. And I really was just so inspired by the level of education and how your organization has really played a critical role and educating our officers on how to conduct. And you know how to, you know, show up for domestic violence calls on how to navigate different cots row norms and also how to victims who ae experiencing domestic violence. But due to whatever no cause understanding of what's happening MAY not know that it is that it MAY not even know where to go. I'm really. I'm happy to hear that we have representation and happy to support. This resolution, especially as all woman Council seeing you have before us today. All women staff. And I'm excited to be critical partner in making sure that my residents ship as a resource in the neighborhood. Thank you. I believe it's Ms Johnson and then I see MISS Can go ahead. I just want to ask continue echo the same sentiments like of gratitude for your work and for your leadership of had a chance to really learn from worked through my time as a program officer at the Saint Paul Minnesota Foundation. And I think one of the things that it's super important about the work that you all do is how local it is, how human is how intentional you are around ensuring that folks who are. A survivor's truly bill that not they're and actually that they have a safe space to get into a btter situation than what they maybe had experience. And I know it was exacerbated doing during the pandemic, but being able to just hear from your leadership. Director Klein also from fema team here, too. Being able to hands-on experience just how they an impact on making. And I think so. Coming up on 40 years of celebrating this. And so when you think about legacy, that's a fuss had as well. So if their anniversary, I'm looking forward to to celebrate with you all. But I think as going through this resolution, I really thought it was just important to uplift this time as domestic violence awareness Month because I know just how prominent of an issue this is and how real it can b, too. Someone who never thought they'd be in a situation where they have to deal with that. And now have to survive that trauma that they didn't ask me part of in the first place. And so the work that you're doing is so vital and places an individual's and folks that are experiencing a situation at home. And if you're watching that resonates with you, I really sincerely encourage you to know that like you're not alone and a lot of times testified come in all shapes and forms. And the one part about it is nobody asked for it and no ones at fault. And you should just need to make sure that you make that call, maybe for your friend, a move for you. And I think that's super important. I appreciate the guys are doing too. Just continue to empower people to actually say that's not right. And I want something different. So thank you. Thank you. MISS Johnson ago, not to go next to ms can go Thank I will come pounds the graciousness for your services and your fears. Advocacy. And mostly are compassionate approach the issue. I just want to lift up that as the winter months are coming, our homeless population for females decreases significantly. And it is not because they are seeking safe shelter. They are seeking and often find themselves in dangerous situations because they cannot they will choose a dangerous situation over a cold night out in Minnesota. And so it is just to say, like has your office continues to field questions around folks that are expensing, homelessness if they're women and if you go out with Get it up from her team, just make sure that you're making those referrals because this is the time women start to and unfortunately choose dangerous situations, overhauled a Minnesota. So I just want to emphasize and appreciate so the timeliness of this resolution as well and just deep gratitude for your work, sir. Thank you. Thank you. MISS Can go ahead thanks. Council PRESIDENT. Iwon't repeat everything that my colleagues have already so beautifully and delicately said. But I was just thinking about the. The ritual of the fact that we we do this every year. You and your staff come here every year now seen. I think this is my 8th or 9th time here as well as the candlelight vigil that we do every year and I come from a culture that is very much about ritual. And I I just thinking about the power of that and Ithink in some ways it might feel a little bit hopeless like were here again, we're still talking about it, but I actually think it's exactly the opposite. It's reinforcing your strength that you continue to be here, that you continue to show up and the fact that even if the work isn't going to be finished and our lifetimes, we still have to keep working at it. And I know it takes a lot for you to keep showing up here and to keep hosting us for the vigil and to keep doing work you do every day. And I just want to acknowledge and appreciate that. Thank you. Thank Sneaker. Any other comments from customers before we vote? And one quick last of a minute. Just Let's is just and then But we Thank you. Council PRESIDENT. I just wanted to again express my gratitude for the work that you do and your services and actually sitting here. I remember that when I was a high school student in the early 2, thousands, one of the volunteer opportunities I had with the national honor sightings with women's advocates. That was over 20 years ago. So I just I just really want to. Appreciate the work you've done for such a long time. Supporting our warriors here locally in the Twin Cities. And it's so great to have all of you here. S wearing the color purple. Last word from us. But we go ahead. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT. Last thing is once a highlight for Saint Paul history that we are actually in our in our resolution. But just want to just put on record that we are actually pa was the first effort holes and operate establish a domestic violence shelter in entire nation. So I think that's really critical. Just how we've always been the leader, particularly around finding safe houses for for victims, just that. Tank Love that powerful historical note to bring us and connected to the PRESIDENT. So what we're going to do is we'll vote on this and then we'll be able to take a photo together to commemorate this important moment. Thank you so much. I'm gonna take that as a motion from ms all in favor. Say Aye. Any opposed. 7 in favor and no one opposed. The resolution is adopted. And then what we're going to do is actually get up and join you all by the podium. And our staff will be taking a photo by where you are. So council members don't mind taking a quick 90nd photo, going get that done. Around. Excuse to everybody in can't. Thank listen. Item 18 is resolution. 24 dash 14. 0, 3. Considering the findings of fact, conclusions of law recommendation spending by administrative law. Judge time them. Concerning the cigarette. Tobacco license held by Zachariah to hit here. This as one stock Market llc at 15. 41 Maryland Avenue East. All right. So this items before us for staff report and we welcome a mistress car city attorney to give us a separate. Thank you. Look at. Good afternoon. Council members, Theresa Scarred on behalf of the Department of Safety and inspections. This is going to break this up into a couple parts and they do the traditional staff report. Why are we here? And give the facts and then I'm going to go into transition into size request and suggested next steps. I am going to have a few pictures that I will show on the overhead camera. So I'm just kind of alerting so that can get set up. Why are we here? We're here to consider the findings of fact conclusions of law and recommendations that are submitted by the administrative Law judge or alj. Generally we ask that you consider and adopt the findings of fact conclusions of and recommend Danielle Che makes as is, but sometimes dsi that you act in your quasi-judicial capacity and put on your black robes and just like judges review the evidence that was presented at the administrative hearing and interpreted for yourselves. The department makes this request when they believe that modifications are needed. This is one of those times where Dsi is asking you to do just that review the evidence and modify some of the findings, conclusions of law and recommendations of the alj. The official record from the administration to hearing is attached to this resolution. That's exhibits one through 8 exhibit 9 is the amended findings of fact, conclusions of law and recommendations that Dsi is recommending. You adopt. After you have had some time to review the evidence in this matter. Although te resolution goes into much greater detail. Here's a brief overview of the facts. Zachariah been cut ear during business is a one-stop Market. Llc holds a tobacco shop license for the one stock market located at 15. 41 Maryland Avenue East in Saint Paul and or ordinances licensees who hold a tobacco shop license can't sell flavored tobacco products flavored tbacco products can only be sold in a tobacco products. Shop. This is the second adverse action against U.S. Licensee. The first adverse action contained violations related to the sale of single cigarettes and the sale of prohibited flavored tobacco products. The first adverse action was resolved by council under resolution. 23, 10. As part of that resolution. The City Council adopted the recommendation of the alj who hd heard it and upwardly departed one box on the penalty matrix from the presumptive penalty of $500 to $1000 Matrix penalty on JANUARY 31st. 2023 that first adverse action became final. Once that occurred, the department move forward on a second violation and it proved least previously flagged for the licensee. The department let the licensee know that they were recommending an upward departure to revocation because in addition to other allegations, the department had investigated a complaint in FEBRUARY if 2021 and found several prohibited flavored tobacco products on the shelves of the license premise us. Well, this adverse action contained allegations of other violations on different dates. They were dismissed at the request of the department and not are not before this council. They cannot be considered a Wade when deciding whether the administrative law judge's findings should be modified. After the amended notice of violation went out the licensee through his attorney requested the hearing before an administrative law judge on the second Adverse Action Matter. The Office of Administrative hearing hears those matters. When a hearing is requested by licensee. On JULY 14th 2023. The city filed a motion for summary disposition on the second adverse action. And there was a hearing held on OCTOBER 13th 2023 as part of the city's motion. An argument at the hearing, the violation on the violations. The city provided the inspectors report and photos that the inspector took on FEBRUARY 8th of 2021. Inspector reported that in plain sight behind the counter cash register where multiple flavored tobacco products violations. And the report stated see attached photos, 20 total see if they can get the. Overhead going. For us to show you the pictures that the inspector took. These are also in your in the report and the exhibits that were presented. Here's some of the prohibited products. You can see they have evidence numbers attached. Those are part of the. Information included in that was presented to j. Then the last 2 or just kind of the totality of the prohibited products that were found on the shelves. So it's kind of all the things you've just seen. In a group. Little fuzzy. But it's the it's the group. On JANUARY, 12th 2024, the alj granted summaries disposition in favor of the city o these violations related to the sale of prohibited flavored tobacco products because the department believe that these prohibited flavored tobacco products were on their own supportive of the requests for upward departure to revocation a penalty type hearing was held before the alj on MARCH 8th 2024. The purpose of that hearing was to develop evidence as to whether there were substantial and compelling reasons to a partly depart on 6/12/2024. The alj issued her findings of fact conclusions of law and recommendations and the alj. I did not recommend upward departure. Dsi has reviewed the evidence, including the reports and photos and the testimony of licensing manager Hudak which is also attached and the record and Dsi is asking the council to modify the JUNE 12th 2024. Findings of fact, conclusions of law and recommendations. Of the alj. The requested modifications are outlined in exhibit 9 and then the exhibit 9, you'll see it's the alj report and there's under line with what yes, I's recommending cross out what they're recommending. We remove Dsi is asking the council not to adopt the recommendation of the able j to impose the $1000 make tricks penalty and instead upwardly depart to replication of the licensees tobacco shop license. Dsi believes that the alj failed to give adequate weight. 2, 2, the testimony of licensing manager Eric could act and failed to give adequate weight to the report and photos of inspector showing the volume of prohibited products in the store on FEBRUARY 2021. Dsi is asking that council review the record ad given all the evidence presented, find that the alj failed. Place, adequate weight on the evidence presented and this evidence included the license history past violations, education meetings, reports, photos. And Dsi believes that the nature and scope of the first violation is one of the reasons for. That are substantial and compelling that contribute to the recommendation per departure and they record they recognize that you will review that in that light. So suggested next steps. As page 9 of the alj is report the notice states. Lg's report is a recommendation. Not a final decision. The Saint Paul City Council will make up the final decision after reviewing the record and MAY adopt reject or modify the findings of fact, conclusions of law and recommendation issued by doj. We are here today because under state pa legislative code, the City Council shall not make a final decision until the parties have had an opportunity to present oral or written arguments to the City Council. The notice section of alj is report also detailed how to contact us more to fnd out the procedure for filing exceptions. And I understand that the attorney for the licensee is here to address council. Under this section of the same Paula. Slate of code in effect at the time of this violation. 3.10, oh, 05:00am it has changed since them. The council MAY deviate from a presumptive penalty in an individual case where it finds and determines that there exists substantial and compelling reasons, making it more appropriate to do so. Dsi does believe tat's substantial and compelling reasons for upward departure to revocation exist in this case. Dsi believes that the alj did not give adequate weight to licensing manager who Dax Testa. My testimony, which is outlined in the resolution and available in the exhibits and the report of. And photos of inspector Boda boda showing the volume of prohibited flavored products at the licensed premises. Dsi believes that regardless of where this licensee MAY have sat on the penalty matrix, even if this was the licensees first violation, the facts of this case. Including photos reports and testimony support upward departure to revocation. Yes, our eye. Argues that the substantial. And compelling reasons exist. They are outlined in the resolution before you anti a size asking that the council latest matter over for one week. And during that time review the official record. Review of the whereas clauses in the resolution that summarize the evidence and lay out the issues that Dsi has with the alj is recommendation recommended findings of fact, conclusion of law and recommendations. Dsi is asking council to look at the evidence that was presented in this case, including the reports of inspector and the testimony of licensing manager Kodak after that Dsi is asking that you review exhibit 9 and except the modifications accepted by Dsi to the findings of fact, conclusions of law and recommendations of the alj and then adopt these amended findings of fact, conclusions of law and recommendations in exhibit 9 as your findings of fact, conclusions of law and recommendations. And finally. When we come back in a week, if the Council Greece to latest over Dsi is asking the council to find that substantial and compelling reasons exist to upwardly depart to reference replication and revoke the tobacco license held by the slice and see. All right. Thank you. This card for that comprehensive explanation there. Any questions from his cart at this time? question for Ms, but we go ahead. Thank you. Come to present the chemist art. I want to looking at exhibit 9 right now and there is a change. Is this for a number? 23 on exhibit 9 like the very first page. First paragraph. Is this the prohibited flavors? It is our existing policy. Ours is the amendment version of it. So amendment. See if we can get the camera going again probably be easier just to put this up for everyone. Exhibit 9 council PRESIDENT Jalali Councilmember Bully is is basically sections of the alj Sri Port that the department is asking be amended. So, for example, the alj is report under 6 penalty factors is amended as follows number. 23. The lg's report says the second appearance consist of finding that the licensee offered. is unspecified number and underlined as what dia size asking you to consider. And this is language from inspect. Avoid report that there were at least 15 different types prohibited flavored tobacco products for us from staff. As you look at inspector for this report, it lets them and what you're seeing at the bottom down here. Are basically that sites to the exhibit numbers for this information and if you look at the alj is full report in the exhibits. You'll see that this nears it. It except for spaces that are underlined. As you go through each page, we're asking that something be added. It's underlined were dsi is asking that something be. We moved its crossed out. Just Does that answer your question? Councilmember get it and I get this is specific to incident. My question, I guess more broadly was. Since we prohibit it, flavored tobacco is our current ordinance or you know how we regulate it is flavored tobacco. Ours is very specific in terms of what type of flavors. Flavors. Are all prohibited. Saint Paul for people who hold a tobacco shop license. This licensee Holt, a tobacco shop license. This council has decided that they want to keep flavors out of the hands Children under 21. And so if you have a tobacco products, shop license, you can sell flavors. But you can't let anybody under 21 in your store. So those are those little kind of when you see a gas station part of its partitioned That's what you're seeing Thank you. Any other questions for Ms Carta? It's my understanding tat we now have pretty representing the shop to give public comment. And so we'll also part of this process. Give time for that. We 5 in its quest. So we welcome you here today to share any arguments or points you want to make on behalf of your client and you'll 5 minutes if you could also let us know your name. We're coming from today and then your relation to the case. We would appreciate it. takes emerge attempts in from npt on and I represent Zach Brookie period here. Sitting front row here. He's the licensee. Just make a brief area. Monday we filed submitted written brief this afternoon. We hope you all review to over the next week when you're reviewing the other materials and we invite to to review the record in the evidence, too, because it does not support But the city is trying to do here. Through the department's wants to hear should say The just begin with 5 violations alleged against us. My client. As as Cohn's incorrectly stated was that there was a summary disposition hearing. They brought a motion 5 claims in part because they lost the video evidence. That was critical to the case in critical their defenses as well. They had to do they fall into early withdraw. 4 of the 5 claims. So what we're left with is a single violation. And in order. The council is allowed front and back up first 5, the first violation did not involve any flavored tobacco products as a misguided said it involved a violation of a sales singles, single cigarettes and violation of the indoor smoking ban. So we have a single violation here. Presumptive penalty under the penalty matrix and the ordinance is the $1000 fine. The Council is is a lot of to deviate from that with the law provides that there must be substantial and compelling reasons to do so. And There are single violation. You cannot consider when you're when making a decision here country to it. Said you connect. Consider the first violation. It's done and over with he's paid that in your ordinances, specifically states. This is the 3.10, 5, that that can not be considerate when you make your decision and a second violation. So. You have to find in order do something less than double the You have to find substantial and compelling reasons. There aren't that in order to do with the day department wants to do here to revoke the license. You have to find this is a more than a doubling of the penalty right? So you have to a year of aiding only compelling and substantial reasons. They have to be aggravating and they have to be a typical we have. Here is a very typical tobacco flavored tobacco violation. There is nothing that's aggravating here. If you look at to see in my brief, if you read it that there is there's the main case that that set the standard for this. And it's the Amoco case from the midway Amoco few years bck. And in that case, the reason that there was revocation because somebody got killed, there were shootings. There was fights. There is a drug dealing there was the store was selling drug kits those are all baiting factors. That's that's provided the basis that the Court of Appeals said was ok. To more than double the penalty. You do not have that here. All you have is a undetermined amount flavored tobacco products being offered for sale. And that is is nothing but a typical violation. So there's think there's no legal basis to to Mr Book and his license here. They're there order to do this. You doing If you do decide to do that, you're gonna have to put your your reasons in writing and they have spilled out and not be concludes or e 3 of the factual. And then when the Court of appeals reviews reviews them. That's that's the standard thing look at. And if it's not met, then the decision have been arbitrary and capricious or not based law are not based on the evidence. And there is no basis in the evidence that that is in your record to revoke this gentleman's tobacco places. And because of that, respectfully request that use adopt the the dog is finding recommendation and impose a $1000 penalty. Thank you. Thank you, MR. Thompson for those comments and it sounds like we have essentially that in writing as well. So that will be a part of our review. Appreciate being here today. We do need you to sign in at there's a clipboard and a sheet right there as part of the a procedural requirements. Thank you. All right. So it's my understanding their request from our staff is to lay this matter over from Grant for one week. Having heard the staff report and then the company arguments from for the other party. Are there any questions for staff or discussion on that motion? Go ahead, MISS Sneaker, thanks. Go prison for smuggling procedural question. I'm not sure if I'm seeing the brief here. It was just minutes to maybe it's just kind of legistar But I just want make sure that we will have access to what the attorney just mentioned. He submitted so that's just one question. And secondly, this kind curious. Based on what the plaintiff's attorney just mentioned and trying to understand is it looks to me from the record like that first violation did include flavored tobacco products. Single sell cigarettes. This is the JUNE 2020 9sales of single cigarettes. And 23 sales of prohibited flavored tobacco products. Bt it sounded like just a minute ago the attorney was saying this is a completely different violation and therefore not the same health and Can you clarify This is a first violation. Our second question. Council PRESIDENT Chili Councilmember maker. This is a second violation. I believe that the evidence in the record shows that the first violation was flavored cigarettes. I believe they were menthol, which is considered a flavor and or ordinance and are therefore prohibited flavored tobacco products. Was your first question? Just wanting to make sure that we would have access. I have not seen of briefs. So I'm assuming it's been filed. We'll just monitor, saw them all up MR. Thompson and then I just there to to file the 3. It MR. Thompson indicating you filed with the city. We're not seeing it on record anywhere. That's he can clear that up. That's you can work with the step clear that up. And then as fellow council PRESIDENT, what? Can you clarify? What is the the substantial and compelling? I know that MR. Hood acts, testimony talks about the the blatant violation. The willful disregard. I'm just curious what specifically leads this to Unusual and to have substantial and compelling reasons for the upward departure cling to the department. Council, PRESIDENT Raleigh, councilmember maker, the departments looking at other cases that have been before this council. We're it isn't like a mistake, right? Where you put one flavored tobacco product on the shelf. This is a licensee that has violated the flavored tobacco rules numerous times. Blatantly. On the shelves after. Education. Council's aware the department goes out and does education within licensees after a meeting with licensee to say, hey, we're having some problems here. After the first violation. And and the other substantial and compelling reason. I believe they're all listed in the resolution. But I believe the other. Reason the department listed was that these are dangerous Products Council's decided that these are dangerous. They don't want them. They dn't want children under 21 or individuals under 21 exposed to these types of products. So they believe that possession. And sale of these prohibited products to minors under 21. Are a danger. So those those are among the stump stanchion compelling reason. So it's like you did it once. It was batant. You're now we went into your shop on a complaint and there's not one but multiple. Different types of flavored tobacco products sitting on the shelf and in each box or multiple. Packages of flavors, you know, so like the honey. Would have. More than one pack flavors. And if you look at some of the past cases where council has upwardly departed 2 revocation, I believe that this is consistent even on the first violation. Okay. That's that's helpful. I just I know that we have 4 levels o the Matrix. So we do allow someone essentially. Therefore opportunities to have the same violation over over and have a different penalty so the fact that they did it again in itself isn't a reason to for the departed cause. We specifically lay out for different steps. And so I'm just trying to understand it sounds like what you're saying is the blatant nature of this is the amount of product. Yeah, Council PRESIDENT Ali Councilmember maker. I would also note that at the time of this violation, there were 4 penalties on the Matrix Council has since updated the penalty mtrics for flavored tobacco and side. Your second time he rebuilt. We're done with that. And that's that is more consistent to the decisions that council is making prior to the update. Thank you for those important clarifying questions. Any other questions for Ms Carter right Ms Yang, things come to pass and I have a caught a question here. Based on something that the attorneys said in their statement. So. First thank you for your briefing. Theresa, the attorney mentioned that there. There are some video clips that I am trying catch on to what they were saying. S there's some video clips that the they're submitted that didn't get through or something like the idea. You know, a bit more about that. Council PRESIDENT Raleigh, Councilmember Yang, I believe what the license, the attorney for the licensee was referring to was that there were video clips. That supported other violations that were missing portions of the video when they were looked at. Because the department had one on summary judgment on the one. Sale that on the Fbruary of 2021 violation where there were multiple prohibited products. The department shows to dismiss the violations that. Are questionable and would have been more more costly to argue basically they just went forward on what this alj said. Hey, you proved us already won at summary disposition. You've showed, you know that these were for prohibited products. Now we can do pnalty phase. So that was the department's choice. Okay. And then just follow questions you're referencing FEBRUARY. So I'm looking at the. The deal attachments to this agenda item in a see videos from JANUARY. And it looks lke in that video there's a transaction a transaction that ws made that was in violation of 4 of our ordinance. So what are think those JANUARY videos are relevant to this violation that we're discussing now. Is that correct? So all of the evidence that came into the record is in the record council PRESIDENT Khan reading all of the present evidence that came into the record is in the rcord. Even the cases that the department dismiss, they don't go away. But you can't consider them because they're just missed. Just like if if I had if I was before you want a speeding ticket and I had 3 other speeding tickets dismissed. You can say, well, you speed all the time. The department made a decision based on resources. I imagine to dismiss those other. Violations and just go forward on the one that the alj was solid on. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. All right. I see a question from his bill. You go ahead. Thank you. To pick council PRESIDENT. A question about the business. So it's a one-stop Market llc, is I is it still in existence or that is their business pending based off of this decision? Because I just looked up their address just as wind stopped wireless and then there's a grocery store it and there's a lot we met. is this the physical location of the business? That's 15 41 Ares. This licensors connected to a different business has not on this record. Council PRESIDENT Jalali councilmember bully. The building has a laundromat in it. The building has a grocery store and inside that grocery store, there is a licensed tobacco shop. Not a tobacco products, shop license, tobacco, so you can you can come in. You can buy broke groceries. You can buy packs cigarettes. There's also a wireless business where you can turn in a cell phone or other things for cash and that wireless business is owned by. Recall. It's the brother, our cousin of the licensees. So there are 2 different licenses within that licensed premises. It's kind of confusing. I think it's the only one like that that I've run across, but they have dfferent businesses with him that within the box of the license. Just I want to clarify because you mentioned something about our flavored tobacco policy has to be a separate business are separate country because of the age requirement. So this business currently for the tobacco products is housed in the grocery store. The market. Has there been anything on record of education of if they do have flavored tobacco. This is how you can. You know, serve that product instead of. Well, I guess I'm just wondering, like has there been what level education, particularly around how they serve their flavored tobacco products. Council PRESIDENT Councilmember believe there's no way they can. The record will show that licensing manager Hudak testified that it was his recollection. This license. He actually applied for Tobacco products, shop license and he couldn't get one. So he knew he couldn't do that. Because new we could not have flavors there long before he became a tobacco shop. He could have regular on flavored products children can come in. Miners don't think they can come into the licensed premises. And he's that location is not eligible 4 tobacco products, shop license and find that an The testimony of Eric attack. I see a question from missing our I'm so sorry. We're going to shoot movie and then it's from his Kim. Thank you. So you say he did apply in. Was that night? Are he just has not apply. For the different type of licensors. I counsel presidential a council member Bowie. I am saying that. Count That licensing manager Hudak testified that he was aware that the licensee had applied for a tobacco products, shop license and could not get the license for that location. And that is in the resolution. All right. Going to MISS Kim. I just want to clarify there's like 2 background things right? Just to say out loud is a separate. License application. If you want to sell regular regular tobacco flavored tobacco. So just making sure everyone understands there's a distinction that's happening. The person. Here, it only has non like only regular i started wondering. At the time of the application for the tobacco. Products shop, is it that they weren't able to get the license because there just weren't licenses available? Because keep in mind, we we set a cap and how many flavored product shops are available in Saint Paul. And it is diminishing over time, actually, what 5, this lead on that many years ago to ensure that we are like decreasing the number of flavored tobacco shops and wondering if you're even able to share. But is it because there just aren't any available or can you speak to that at all? Council PRESIDENT Jalali Councilmember Kim, I am not. Able to recall off the top of my head. What? Licensing manager, who Dax testimony. Was as to the reason why that that this individual wasn't. Given the tobacco products shop license, they apply for. That is in the record. If you listen to the recording it, I believe he does address that. I just can't recall it off the top of my head and I apologize. All So let's go to Can you explain again the it sounds like the request is for a layover and is that so that customers have time to consider the information that we've heard today and that we had to be submitted. Council PRESIDENT Jalal, yes, the department is requesting a layover one week because department believes that the council members need some time to consider this information review of the resoluon review that audio testimony of licensing manager Hudak that's included review the report of inspector and the pictures. And just become comfortable with the request. And at the end of that time, if we accept their additional information, the motion would be to revoke the license. And if we do not, the motion would be to not accepted and it would the consequence being experience would be $1000 fine. Council PRESIDENT That's correct. You can. You can do one of 3. Thanks. You could accept the administrative law judge's report is is and impose the $1000 fine. You could accept the recommendation of the Department of Safety and Inspection and find substantial, compelling reasons and revoke the license and adopt exhibit 9 as your findings or quite frankly, you could do something in else and come up with your own proposed findings and recommendations. Because at this pint, these are recommendations. You are judge us. Well, there's much to consider here today. I appreciate our community members who came in person to speak to their side of this and much to deliberate. I would tke a motion for a one-week liver from ms Yang. Okay. All in favor say Aye. Aye. Any of us. 7 in favor opposed the resolution is laid over to OCTOBER 9th. Item 20 is a public hearing of ordinance. 24 Dash 20 for granting the application of 10 Holdings llc to rezone the property at 6.29. Bush Avenue from h 2 residential. I one light industrial and chi to traditional neighborhood. Just 6 to it, transitional in industrial district and amending chapter 60 of legislation called Pertain to the zoning map. All right. We held a staff report on this last week and it's now before us for second reading public hearing. This is a public hearing on item number 20. Is there anyone here today to speak to this item item number 20? I think we close public lead over Are you here for great. Okay. So if you are here will have you do is caught between the 2 microphones. Let us know your name and where you're coming from today. And then you'll have 2 minutes to speak to this item. So welcome. Thanks for being it. Well, Ed, good afternoon at Megan Rogers. On behalf of the applicant with half. We are we're just here to answer any questions that the council MAY have about this application and very much just offer ourselves as a resource for anything that this effort been able to cover this far. But we are also just want take an opportunity to say thank you to your staff and for the time and the energy that they have spent working through at this site with and bringing this application forward. So thank you so much. Thank you. Ms Roberts. Any questions for our applicant while we have them here? Okay. Get to know Go ahead. Miss Yang. See kind house. The PRESIDENT. I don't have any questions, but I did want to share to you both that last week. House make your comments about again. Thank you, Bill, to you in rpd staff are working out the sun. If you really wanted to commend you for your perseverance and getting the signatures, I still remember the first meeting I had with 2 of the property owners and just if you hearing about traveling tally of the state just to get the signatures me it, you know, you are really went the extra many miles many, many miles. Just to get insight. We want to say, you know, that your your work is seen and we are very excited to have He would open up business in court. 6. Thank you so much. You very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. If you wouldn't mind just signing in on that sheet before you head out that degree, ate it. All right. This is a public hearing still for item number 20, is there anyone else here to speak to this item? A motion from is eager to close public hearing on say Aye, Any posts. 7 favoring or 6 in favor nor opposed public hearing is closed to ordinance is laid over to OCTOBER 9th for final adoption. Item 21 is resolution public hearing. 24 dash to 37 amending the city's operating budget to reflect the final sale. Details resulting from the issuance of the sewer revenue Bonds series 2024 d. All right. This is a public hearing on item number. 21, is there anyone here to speak to this item? Okay. Seeing none. The motion from this came to close the public hearing and approve on favor say Aye. Aye. Any opposed. 7 in favor opposed to public hearing is closed in the resolution is adopted item. 22 is resolution public hearing. 24 dash to 47 approve the application of Waukesha. Bring company for some local variance in order to present employee town on Saturdays OCTOBER 5th, 12 19th and for 29 Wabasha Street South. And it's my understanding sneaker has aversion to she would like to move so mesnick or would move version to on by Post. 7 in favor nor opposed the amendment is approved. Thank you. So now we have the amended version before us. This is a public hearing on item number. 22, is there anyone here today to speak to item? Item? 22. All Seeing none motion from sneaker to close public hearing on their say any opposed. All right. So mistake or any comment before we vote, things come Just wanted to have. Thank constituent and neighbor of this property who reached out to us with a letter as want to thank MISS Yang who read the letter and reached out to me as well to to ask how we can handle this. Concerned this is a neighbor right behind the property who frequently hears the noise from the gathering. So I was shivering homes that do at neighborhood fatality. But also you can hear them and her husband is having 80th birthday party at this very same day that they planned for months. My wonderful legislative intent was able to reach out and learned that that event will be from 02:00pm to 05:00pm we were able the version 2 that you just approved amended the sound of a variance to just avoid those hours. So I had this is one of those cases where glad people reach out and let us know these things and we're going to be able to accommodate both. Neighbors need to end the property owners tonight. So so that's a little bit about that. Thank you. It sounds like a motion from his maker to approve all in favor say Aye, aye. Any opposed 7, a favorite. No one opposed. Resolution is adopted as amended. Item Twenty-three's resolution public hearing. 24 dash to 48 approve the application of Allianz Field for a variance in order to present live, amplify sound for the Minnesota ufc community Today event on OCTOBER 4th outside of all lands Field, 400 Snelling Avenue North. Okay. This is a public hearing on item number. 23, is there anyone here to speak to this item number? 23. - Seeing none. The motion from his ability to close te public hearing and approve all in favor say Aye. Aye. Any opposed 7 if even know enough owes the public hearing is closed to the resolution is adopted item Twenty-four's resolution. Public hearing 24 dash 2.50. Approve the application of Richard fact for some of variance in order to present amplify sound on OCTOBER. 12th at 15, 0, 9 Ashland Avenue. All This is a public hearing. Item number. 24, is there anyone here to speak to this item item? 24. Okay. Seeing none as we would move to close the public hearing and approved on favor. Say Aye, Any opposed 7 favorite not oppose public hearing is closed and the resolutions adopted item. 25 is resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.50, to appear in their quest of District Energy, Saint Paul and to amend district cooling rates for fiscal year 2025. Right. This is a public hearing item number. 25, is there anyone here to speak to this item? Seeing none. A motion from Ms Joe's to close public hearing and approve all in favor say Aye, Any opposed 70 favorite known to pose a public hearing is closed and the resolutions of Afton item. 26 is resolution public hearing 24 dash 2.53. Approving the request of District Eergy Saint Paul and district heating rates for fiscal year 2025. And this is a public hearing on item number. 26, is there anyone here to speak to this item? Keep looking, but it's all the same people here. All right. So seeing none a motion from his Johnson to close a public hearing and approve all in favor say Aye, any books, 7 to favor. No one opposed public hearing is closed to the resolutions adopted item. 27 is our latest Vo 24 Dash. 31 appeal of Donald. A hindrance to notice of condemnation is unfit for human habitation in order to vacate notice to cut tall grass weeds and summary an order at 9, 9, 5 Wakefield Avenue and the public hearing was closed on SEPTEMBER. 25th. Welcome back is And we heard a lengthy on report on this last week and some community comment and made a plan and I think were here to get an update and a look into you for direction on what's what's next here? So it turn it over to him is warm and thank you. Kuz presidential counselors. It should be very quick. The condemnation was lifted in the balance of the orders on were converted to a simple correction order. The animals were removed by animal control on Friday with the exception of the counts and the docks. And there is a summary of in order to clean the exterior. And that has a deadline this Friday. I've amended the resolution I front of you, if you I ask that you would please make that change. That is consistent with the dsi They do have a dumpster coming there is a lot of outside. They have cleaned it. All of House. All So it sounds like you start. So could you summarize your recommendation? My recommendation is to amend and adopt the resolution. All right. Any questions for Ms Mormont? All right. Would Johnson would you like to make a motion to accept that recommendation? Yeah. What I think it's notable here that this was a notice of come to nation last weekend related over a week. With the work of the staff team as well. So as our office and to the constituent here we are not in a situation and so I just, you know, I want to say to again, Mr 100 for coming out here and talking with us. Last week, I really appreciated. And I also we'll just continue to monitor monitored as we are following up how well it's continued to be cleaned up. I hope this is a positive in the right direction. So I move I MISS Mormons recommendation and amendment. Thanks. Also supportive of sounds like motion from his Johnson all in favor say Aye. Any opposed. 7 in favor nor opposed resolution is adopted as amended. Legislative hearing consent agenda items. 28 through 46 or before you for your consideration. All right. And is and we have items. 23, 46 before us. Would you like to take any of these items separately today? Council PRESIDENT Could items. 37 38 the bed and the record set the case. 37 38 item. 57 is our Ali to dvr. 24 dash. 55 feel of Joe Biden McCoy to a vacant building registration fee at 10. 33 Maryland Avenue East. All right. And as women, we welcome staff report on this item. This is the requirement that 10 33, Maryland Avenue East be a registered vacant building. There was a fire at the property in MAY of this year. It did receive such automatic 90 day waiver of the bacon building fee. What I have in front of me now is the question. Should there be an additional way for my recommendation is no. This belongs in the vacant building program at this time and that if there are considerations to be made about us. Decreasing any assessment this forthcoming are making payments over time. Those are conversations for and assessment rather than registration requirement. Very, very The cold and the definition that I'm referring to that I believe is not is chapter. 43. And it talks about the 3 different kinds of vacant buildings that are out there. To the point with this one. It's a building or a portion of the building which is excuse This condemned structure and also it has major building and fire code violations resulting from the fire. So it is very much defacto in my view. I think building. And I believe is McCoy would like to tell you a little bit of what her story has been going down this road that that me help inform this conversation and future once thank you. Any questions from his Mormon before we go to the public hearing, not seeing any. Let's go to the public hearing. This is a public hearing and item number. 37, is there anyone who would like to speak to this item? Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for being here. So you can just come and stand between the 2 microphones. Let us know your name and where you're coming from today. And then I believe you have. 2 minutes. All right. Go ahead. And Coy I don't understand where coming from Our house caught on fire on APRIL 28th of this year. On the anniversary of living there for 18 or 19 years. To me is excessive. We just lost everything that we Before we could even get to pressures. We had a statement from the city of Saint Paul asking us for $2500. I didn't know what we're going live, but I didn't that owed the city. That is shameful to me. It's so and consider it. And it's so cruel to people already experiencing such a big strong. And I mean, we've already been through a I've been told that I could pay for it over different time or all of that. But I am still here for my daughter's finger my better, especially died MARCH of I had another baby in that year's well, we've got so much stuff going to that. I can afford to give the city of Saint Paul. $2500. I'm getting nothing out of that. $2500. The $2500 goes to cover. If you have a problems that are making probably vacant property. If need your grass cut, if you need. Trans remove or any. We don't have any of that. And yet, still I'm still I'm still get a bill from your trust service. And on top of still getting do from your trash service and still get a bill from. The water company. I lost my job when I couldn't. I didn't have clothes to wear. I worked say space, the emergency shelter down here and I work for Ramsey County, but I didn't have clothes. Ramsey County understood that I didn't have close. I can work from home a little bit but say space, they're shelter. They need to me there and I lost a job because of the fire. And now I'm getting all these bills from the city. And to me is just ridiculous. It's like They're taking advantage of my So he's your cut. Your to waive the fee. Is it too, next? What is your request request is to waive the fee. I've got my contractor, my contractor. I'm going through insurance. It's a process. Even the city guide. The inspector said that he's not saying someone have a fire and it be repaired and 3 months it takes time. It especially when you're going through all these different systems so, yeah, I can afford $2500 I For $2500 going on to an already paying for assessments. It's like $2500 is going to push us over the land where our house. Thank Thank you for sharing your story with us today. To do is Well, Sorry. Are you also here to testify? The only reason could started over the next. So you're going to be next committee member to speak and 2 minutes. If you let us know your name and then your relation to situation and 11 to 2 minutes. Go Shubert with live in Saint Paul with percent raise and contractor with your phone. And Brian, as far as doing there. We model on Unfortunately. Fire on the hull. So I'm basically here just to show that, you know, she is looking to have a contractor, obviously, do the repairs are work and this is a big concern as far as that because your insurance company is kind of rejecting the pay. The bill. And even though basically after 2 days of the fire was basically condemned and and a vacant building. I've obviously this is my first counter process going through this. But I feel really bad for her. I understand the city as far as there's enough buildings that altered vacant, that probably should be obviously bacon and condemned. She just wants to get back to our house and obviously the beginning and process, I think moving forward, especially with the fire, somebody is actually in the house and needs t be probably change deal with insurance company. I deal with it on a daily basis. I mean, it's 3 to 4 months before you even get a decision back and, you know, having these multiple fees that are coming up us. It's stressful for now. Granted, I think it needs to be a case by I know you guys get a lot of Bue sticker slapped her vacant buildings. But some of that rightfully so. But some of it, I don't I don't think it's right on the other end. So I'm just here to show that we are a cut in the process of getting the permits and get back on, you know, so. How long that's going to take us to finish depends on insurance companies. So there anybody still with insurance. It could. It takes time. So. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for your comment. And if you can also sign in on the that would be great. This is still a public hearing on this item. Is there anyone else? Your speed is item number? 37. So that I would take a motion from ms Yang to first just closed public hearing on favor, say - Aye, aye, any opposed. Okay. I look to MISS Yang and as more men for further direction things going to thank you, council PRESIDENT I thank you so much for coming in and testifying today. I want also want to say thank yu to. they can start potential contractor who's here to say when a patient of I'm really sorry to hear what happened. But the fire, not the loss of your daughter to you are really holding on to a lot. And for you to be here. Also takes so much courage in time to save. Really appreciate you for that. And I really believe that you will prevail these difficult times. So I have a couple of questions here. I and wondering if this is like I would really open to having the the contractor come in and answer that question. I'm wondering if you estimate on on when you would hear back about. When the work could begin and how long it MAY take for it to finish I understand - it. There's back and forth with insurance. Yeah, you can take that into account, Sure. We're at right now is. I've gotten all the mechanical adjustments. I should have them back by Monday. And then I'm going to submit with the insurance company next week. Our now some of that is unfortunately based on insurance companies, some of them or respond back very quickly. Some of them it takes a couple of weeks again. If any of you guys have gone through insurance, you would understand from start to finish how long it goes on and on, I'm talking like a typical like a hail or storm like that. It could take just a few weeks, 2 to 4 weeks, just to get an answer back. This is a little bit more. I mean, there's some cold stuff that we've got to upgrade, which I after that, it could take 4 to 6 weeks before even get a response back that we can proceed move forward. There are some sructural stuff that had to be taken care of which I've got all that stuff. So. If everything goes well, I can have a permit and 2 weeks and then we probably got about 3 months to complete the You know, kind of the timing, but a lot of that is unfortunate. And the insurance company not my end, but everything went well. I mean, we probably be done. I would say probably JANUARY FEBRUARY at this point as one would be completed with the project. If if everything were to kind of, you know, slide in the place. wondering, is there anything that? We from the city can to to serve the expedited like that communication at all. And I'm not familiar with it. So. know that I have a couple people that are. Got our I was is an example We have a customer that we've been working with for about 3 weeks and the response that we got back was. I'm really busy with the people down south right now. And we kind of mix are in the like, listen, we've been working with this customer for 3 6 weeks. I feel for everybody down South. I feel for that. The East Coast, 8 100%. But we also have customers that are. They don't - have a home right there. I mean, they're living apartment also and I get the people down south of completely lost their home. But retrospect, she's also lost her home. She's not living are so. So a lot of that, no, I have been speaking with their insurance company quite frequently. So I mean, they understand the process. I just need to get to where at least we've got a really good and some of it. I can do on the back But there's a big. The start is and what it actually means to be just because there are some code compliance stuff that would have to be upgraded like I can't. There are some stuff in the house that has to be upgraded because I just know. The city is not going let me finish ok, thank And then sure have a question for you. I mean, I heard loud and clear the contractor that did to honest, not living in the home right now. So you can let me know if there are any sort of is there a cap it all to how long the waiver can be or is that something that the council can decide on? That is something the council can this juncture. I would recommend that the count so deny and handle this as an appeal or is appeal of an assessment? And the reason I would say that is because you have more tools when you have it in front of you is an assessment thing you do as simply a vacant building registration. This is kind of a down kind of a situation at this point. I would also note a couple of things and when we spoke in the legislative hearing, had the chance to get the vacant building supervisors, cell phone and their hands. And I guess the communication between the insurance company and the supervisor was unclear. The insurance companies really like drag their feet saying we shouldn't have to pay a vacant building fee. That doesn't make sense. It must be your fault. Nonsense. You should be paying vacant building fees in Minneapolis where there are really high. I'm hoping that it conversation that I would like to have with the insurance folks might be helpful to explain what the covid actually is it's through no fault of theirs that I think registration is here. It's that was our conversation earlier and my commitment to follow up. We just talked about that in the hallway. Additionally, wat was brought up by Ms McCoy. Just now we're garbage and water bills. And that something I was aware of. But both of those things are appealable. And so we're going to those on track to be appeals. So those costs can be discussed separately and hopefully do it with reasonable and compassion fashion. So would say there are things around the edges that we can do but if they're on the schedule that's described, that makes it done within 9 months of the billable 12 has the council decreased in those cases in the case of fire would be the only case where I would say, you know, yes, there complexities there. You know that that is hoped fall in my view. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that information. You really are the expert here when it comes to these legislative hearing items. And I'm glad to hear that there is a way to appeal the garbage and trash the garbage and the utility bills. Water bills, ok? That's really awesome. And I think it just really shows how valuable it is that when there is communication between the calendar, the property homeowner, and then also you too. So tell you what I'm interested. And so I don't want get into a position where basically we are where there's like a lot of fees that are getting backed on the property owners. And, you know, join a clearly stated that this is a really difficult time for them. They don't have the funds to be able to pay for these fees. At the same time, I'm also really invested in making sure that the from the city of play a role in really moving this process along too. So that's why I had asked. Is there something that we can do on our end to really? Push the insurance company to be more responsive. Collaborative and so on. So I can you explain a bit like why is the assessment tool that would be helpful for us? Why can do the registration and the assessment. So, yeah, like you mentioned your so your recommendation was we should go the rout of assessment. Well, again, what's in front of you is the vacant building registration, which comes in the form of a letter saying you also have a bill approximately $2400 associated with that that $2400 represents a portion of the cost to run the vacant building program. The last I understood about 75% of the cost of running the vacant building program are recouped through the fees that are charged. Now those are more or less evenly divided across all the registered vacant buildings in the city. Although you know that some of that event longer pay more and argument been made in the budget process that there is more expense associated with those. So this would be the reasoning. It just it does not invoiced what services exactly were used on a particular property, but rather does the flat across all of the properties we have had people mentioned that it would be useful, particularly people like this McCoy who are managing their property. Well, you know, said I it's not fair that I should have to pay for property like a cbs. You know that, you know, that's going on the last comment I would like to make. And it's just little bit off topic I think that one of things that's come up in this conversation is how suddenly the fire happens. Forwarding happens. How scooping down you're relocating or in the vacant building program. all happens like that. I'm not sure how we weave together the conversation of the affected depart involved departments of the city that might make this a little easier to Has a resident and the victim of a fire. So I I put that out. There is a future policy discussion. But that's really helpful, and then just a last you you mentioned something earlier. Public insurance company pay for the day that they can building fee. So that is something that can happen right in this case. Insurance companies have definitely covered vacant building phase. They cover the boarding of the building after needs to be secured and this is not an unusual insurance. Ask okay So I don't know. Thank I just want to share on to my council colleagues that I am inclined to support the recommendation. And open a hearing. Any other thoughts that have to? Thank you as eating. I see Johnson who knew him believe has a question. Go ahead I I have a question more and thank you, COUNCILMAN, bringing for kind of letting us know. Where where you are issue. I think one of the things I'm I'm still on So we. We have in the past month and made recommendations, put things to put properties into the vacant building. Program. Following a fire or and in this case where something a family residence has caught on fire. This is like a pretty typical, as is the typical response or how often does this type of scenario happen? Every single time there's a fire in the building is deemed uninhabitable by the fire department has referred to thick and building program directly. So if you had, for example, small dryer fire that only affected the basement was taken care of right away. That's not going to get your house doesn't have the ball. If you have a fire, the damages will also electrical systems and other kinds of us. That make it inhabitable, you know, and that in the photos and your records show multiple rooms with. And damage. So it's it's an unfortunate but not a small. Fire in this case. Also similar to in terms of its unexpected. Tis like a vehicle, hitting a building. You know, it's sudden it's. Intense instantly there's $100,000 worth of or, you know, just done. And did the building doing? know they're out in intersection. it's really these are really hard struggles. Okay. And is a follow-up to that question. Then I guess. Could just simply also? How do we do? We build insurance for that for you mentioned that it has been typical insurance expense. But in this case, what I'm also hearing from me constituent is that there is this issues with getting insurance to even cover the fire. So I'm just kind of wondering in this case with that, I'm assuming that this could be some the people that asked how often do you actually see insurance cover? They can both in fees for the city. there's 2 questions in there and one, I will go ahead and try to answer. And offer. For to be answered over sheriff. There's more needed and the first question has to do with the insurance company covering the fire, covering the personal items and so on. I wasn't hearing from the contractor or the homeowner that the insurance company giving them difficulty about that. But rather. It is the case with site insurance claim. That they are complicated and insurance companies are And that makes it harder. Obviously. Part aout insurance companies paying a vacant building c is something I have heard we have dealt with in the past many insurance companies. We've had no hiccups getting that taken care of. So I guess I would distinguish those 2 pieces of it, but I'm going to turn company you've been dealing with the insurance company so And told me that my policy does not cover them paying for that. And then when I gave him the number to city inspector. He called me back and he told me that the city inspector told me that told him that I got that the because I was not maintaining my property. And I told him, I'm like, what is there to maintain? Only the grass? The grass is cut every week. Unlike the city's done nothing for me. Nothing he's drawn by have waved at him when he drove by a few times. But other than that, got nothing. I've got the same. I'm obligated to pay the same amount that the cvs Pan. Cbs is a corporation they could probably in for that for us. We can't we can't. I've got 2 jobs already. We can barely afford a house. So I have Ms Kim and then sneaker in line. Go ahead, MISS Kim. Yeah, thank really interested sort of like shifting to kind of like what are the has forward. But I just want to say that looking at photos that are attached to the record is very clearly and not just difficult, but I would be personally feeling very devastated. It's not just your home. It is like things. It's not just the houses, the things that make your house a home like memories, children's things. It's like the place that you feel safe. And so it is not just it's just emphasize my heart is very deeply with you. And I'm so so sorry and also rally appreciate the way the reticulated, the things that you are doing. It's not often. But occasionally we also get folks that contractors for the work. It's demonstrating a good faith on your part. They are actively trying to make more than a good faith effort to get your life back. And so Marcia, you mentioned something about treating as an assessment because they're more tools in the tool box. And so I my question is around Lake. I'm trying to read between the lines. I'm wondering like what does that mean to have more tools in the tool box? Because the you know, I'm inclined to spport Councilmember Yang for the past 4, but I'm also wondering like what sort of the most compassionate have forward in terms of like, what are the other options that we hve sometimes approving sometimes denying an appeal like Ward 5, we had something we're denying an appeal. Give her another chance to do something different. And so it doesn't feel good to hear that. But I'm just wondering, like, what are the options? If we 90, the appeals are different path forward to ensure that that they can building few could be paid differently or not at all. Like, what are those options look like? Because I hear you. That is a significant amount. I hear that you're working 2 jobs. Kuz presidential, a council member Cam when I was talking to as the koi out in the hallway, talked about it in these terms. Delaying to an assessment process. 2 things basically one is buys you time. And in that time that's bought. I can work with the insurance company. Vacant buildings can work that with the insurance company. I don't know how that was. Communication worked out that way, but it shouldn't have. The other thing is that again, you know, what you can do now is we've a fee perhaps fr a little bit longer. But you have that same ability when I comes forward as assessment terms with. Decreasing the assessment program in the assessment and that can be made payable over time. So you have. That and time. So we buy time. Talking to insurance. You find time for potential payments over time. You can still make decisions to decrease. Prorated, eliminate. All of those things are in the council us to a box, right? So what just regurgitate that so like today, if we were proves he'll. The what would that mean in terms payment? Right my conversation has bond. Do not pay. Do not pay the Let it go to assessment. We can have this conversation in that context. If it isn't resolved before So Does that answer your question to deny the appeal, correct? The action would be to deny the appeal that the property does need to be in the vacant building program. That's the wording and better than the resolutions. So yeah. So I have sneaker line and then I see MISS Jones and Ms Johnson. So let's go. Kyrgios Johnson, thanks. Council PRESIDENT, thanks to everyone for thoughtful discussion here. You know, our beacon building fee and vacant building program is intended to make sure that we cover our costs of making sure buildings are well maintained, but also to incentivize property owners to make the necessary repairs to getting their buildings habitable again, not to be come, something that keeps them from doing that. And so your point is very well taken. And I appreciate coming Also extend my sympathies as my colleagues have done to you that this could become a barrier to making the necessary repairs that we ultimately have this be in place to encourage you make the way that I have seen us handle that in past is exactly what you just described this moment, which is to deny the appeal, but encourage the property owner to not pay and let it go to assessment when the assessment comes due to appeal that assessment and what I've seen us do in the past. Foreman, correct me if I'm wrong about this, is that at that point we can evaluate how much progress has been made towards renovating and rehabilitating the property. And if a certain amount of progress has been made. In the course of the year, the vacant building fee applies over the year. We can prorated based on how much is left of the year. We can take into account progress that's been made all the work has been done. That's a relevant factor. S I think that's a really smart approach here because that's the way that I see in the past. Used be the way it's intended, which is to encourage work not to keep park from happening. So I really support course. So I think it was as Joe Stem is Johnson the eu Council PRESIDENT This morning. I just wanted confirm. I think I know the answer to this question. If we were to deny the appeal and delay the vacant building registration fee have a go-to assessment. It would still potentially be able to be covered by insurance. Is that correct? I believe so. Yes. That the question. Thank All right. And then MRS. Could I just confirm again, the timeline for things like assessments like what is the timeline so that it was? If it is a situation where we deny the appeal today and then piece of the conversation, the land like fee is not. And it goes to assessments. What is the timeline typically for that? My best estimate. And we're talking about this tax year next tax year, kind But would be that within. 8 to 12 week time period, notification would be mailed out about a pending assessment for this purpose. For weeks thereafter would be a legislative hearing. So that takes us into February March and then it would be in front of city Council MARCH APRIL. Okay. That's in. I think I can support motion that's given come spraying for what it's worth. I think the question that I think the thing that I'd want to know just from the communications coming from our staff, on our side in the city and department actions as if we are communicating with insurance companies and the client that maybe articulating the circumstances accurate, these, that there isn't any sort of the as there's r. And so I really want to make sure that our staff are up to speed on that in that we get a hold of that type of communication. Have a time in the event that something like that that happened. I just heard testimony today is something that would be discouraging if it was in my hand of having to have to play back and 4th between. He said she said to the insurance company. And so I would just encourage us to make sure that our team at Leas has a pretty concise message, an understanding of the of what is going on. And so, however, we can ensure that that that. That message is consistent across the board, I think will be really great for everybody involved. So my feeling is. Looking from the outside room and just the contractor. But my understanding from what she was saying. If the fire department comes out at midnight. 2 o'clock in the morning and basically becomes a building. It's automatically a vacant building. And so I believe and just for the public as far as they should have a timeline whether to get a contractor and get the permits pulled like if it's a 30 day after that, team and you don't find a contractor, you don't pull permits. You. Don't then go ahead and do your thing that you have to do. But you're not giving She wasn't a lot enough time to even get a contractor, get everything figured out because she basically had a letter. You know, a couple days after the fire happened. I mean, they And I understand some people don't have insurance or of coverage or they just leave the building. And it turns into a building that, you know, nobody wants to see but that wasn't the case with I mean, she wanted to get it done. She wants to get back. There also doesn't want to live in apartment, but I think there should be enough time or that's 30 days like listen, you have to have a contractor and he has to go pull the permit. I could if she would have contacted and realized she had 30 days to find a contractor. I care, too. She would have on a contractor to pull the permit and we want to started. It's just one of those. I think there should be moving forward consideration with people that have, you know, I don't know if any of you guys have actually had a fire or attorney or anything like that words. Major, major. And that's a big I mean, we all deal with hail storms and that stuff that's just kind of, you know, welcome you live in Minnesota. So it happens. But when the fire. Somebody driving a truck into their house you for the fire. They're just trying you know, move on with teir lives. I mean, they should have, you know, again, 30, 60 days or something like that, find a contractor, pull the permit and it will lifted off of that with the fees because they're still I mean, you are going through reviewing you, sir. We actually have to come to a conclusion on this one. I think your point is well taken because what we're trying to parse here is there's the matter of dealing with this individual issue and supporting our constituent. With the rules that exist and then the policy conversation were broadly that I think I'm seeing we'll fully agree needs to be looked at, which is, you know, when someone is a victim of a fire and then that actually triggers their home being in the baking Dylan program. What's the chain of events that happens? How does need to be reviewed? So that people like you can do what you need to do? You don't have the extremely upsetting experience that you had of just like cold communication of these rules being enacted out on you. So full-year that say just one thing about your bacon donut. Also a new one that they can build that gives people solicitor's. Your name, your telephone number, your e-mail and all through the day and all through the night you're getting calls. Couldn't buy your Is your house for Can I come over? Do this all day long? I just think it's so considerate to make that happen so I think maybe there's case that we need to ceate a Category 4 where it's if you are in that program because are a victim of of something that has nothing to do with you. A fire or natural disaster. What what category can we create or or explore what taxes need to happen. So that because I's a fundamentally different situation that. Our problem, property owners who deserve to get. Hit up about what they're doing about the building, right? That's not your situation. So the public hearing is closed. We have I think a motion coalescing. Ms Yang. Do you have a motion that you'd like to make at this time? Yeah, I to approve the recommendation. And is there any discussion on that motion? As we go ahead is set? Well, I want to be clear to cause what the motion to put basically go forward or deny this appeal right. And then also that would bring it to assessment. Is there some type of special conditions that we could put on the assessment and like when it comes back before what that community members have to come back and testify is is there a fee to issue another uphill? I'm just thinking about what are all the impacts, what even if we know we had consensus here that. Assessment will be appealed. But with that require more terms of coming back to this body and deliberating all of that. There. Is a way that we can have a motion edge is streaming sign? That is so we don't have to. Have continue to. Because the PRESIDENT Councilmember fully. What will happen is when the notification of assessment goes out, it will have an appeal process and better than that. The first stop is in legislative hearings. There is never a fee associated with the peeling a special assessment on your That is absolutely we can do these and off more often than not. By far, we do these over the phone. So it is stunned interruption in person stay, but it is not a you have to come down to courthouse pay for parking and so on. If this worked out where talent is satisfied with the outcome. If it it's not. There's an opportunity to testify here in person or over the phone. And so that we continue to exist. The council can apply whatever criteria it sees fit is resolution in front of the city Council. So you have. As ever. Led to it. Thank you as well. To make a brief comment. I really appreciate you sharing your your testimony. Also. You're bound ability and helping to inform better of are vacant building policy and no one want we have quite a few vacant buildings and even to your point, we look at this and way right, someone who is dealing with a a tragedy and should be treated as compared to other vacant buildings that have bigger bank accounts and more assets and more capital to give to wear a 2500. He's really substantial. And I heard you mention that this have also impacted here. Your employment and I just want you to know this is not going on deaf ears. And I really appreciate. You. Only sharing, but encouraging us. Look at our policy in a more critical way. All right. So there's motion from ms Yang. Any other discussion? Most are missing on favor say most firms and to accept the recommendation of legislative hearing officer on favor say Aye, aye, any opposed 7 in favor. No one opposed. Resolution is adopted. All right. Thank you as McCoy. Thank you to Steve. All right. Looking as warm and I heard you number 38, is ours. One? Yes, is our leached. He a 24 dash 3.16, ratifying the peeled Special Tax Assessment property at 10 62 Minnehaha Avenue East. All right. We look team is Mormon for a similar staff report on this item. Council PRESIDENT You can members particular had an appeal in front of you in JANUARY of this year. The issue at hand was an emergency abatement order for the repair or replacement of the sewer line as it connects to the house and that there was a break in that that needed to be repaired. The property owner believed still believes that the fault with having that break is on the city who was undergo, which doing street construction. There are several ways for this to be resolved. But one of the ways was not to have the council decide who pays for. Is part of an emergency dealing with the sewer. So what were 3 ways you could pay for it yourself. It's so unexpected expense. And at that time it was estimated at $20,000. You can sign up and go through a program of public works and you'd sign a contract that includes a waiver for not only in city liable for the 3. You could do this emergency a bit from the payments could be spread over 10 years in this particular we went forward with the emergency. If it meant order that he could preserve his right to litigate, the matter says, should he so choose? And what's in front of you today is the assessment for the work came in at approximately $13,500. So significantly less than what it was anticipated to be. Again, my recommendation is to divide it up for 10 years. Thank you. Your recommendation as to what sorry. Make a payable over 10 years. Got it. Okay. Alright. Any questions from his Mormon? Before we go to the public hearing? Seeing none. I believe we have test fire on the line. So this is a public hearing for item number. 38 and I will take it to our staff on the line who can admit, I believe we have a caller on the line wishing to testify to item. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT Allowing encounter. We do have one testifier on the line. Most are valley. You'll have to 5 minutes to testify. Press star 6 to unmute to begin your testimony and start by Sting Moon and Ward. All right. MR. Down. Can you hear me? All right. So you'll have 2 minutes when she let us know your name. And then you love 2 minutes to comment and let us know you're asked today. Welcome and go ahead with your time. My name is Darren down on a male heir and 62. It appears I've already billed for this because mortgage payment went up kind of wondering why already went up when we're still in discussion of And I've been kind the work. That's being gone and the front of my house. And it doesn't really appear that they did anything to my yard as far as taking it off or replacing anything in my yard. And it looks like the only thing that they did do. It's just repaved that was right front of my house. And I never signed working. There's no work in my yard my ardor place replacement of any price the matter. The original contract that was supposed to come out and DECEMBER JANUARY to do even more. Never came and nobody ever came out. And like I said, it looks like the city they were out there paving a road that they just decided, ok, well, this pace, was on call it So, yeah, that's that's pretty much all I got. So. MR. Yaalon, what is your request today? My that I shouldn't liable pay damage is because he's is we're not my fault because it happened when they were doing work. And the city came out 3 times and looked in my basement. And the 3rd time when the guy came all, he said that they might have hit my sewer line. He went down in my basement, came off and mayor really also by looking. Everything's good to go. Well, a couple months later, all this start happening. So why shouldn't be liable to pay for this? Because none of this is my fall. Other than the people that were doing the work front of my huse damaging the pipe and the now somehow this is my fault because bought my house. I had inspection and there was nothing wrong with the sewer line. What I bought my house. All Thank you, MR. Gallon will will take will take this come in and we'll deliver now. So thank All right. Yes, this is a public hearing. Anyone else here online or on film to testify for this item? Okay. Seeing none. A motion from his Johnson to close public hearing on favor say Aye. Aye. Any opposed. Okay. Public hearing is closed. And so I look to was Johnson for direction on this item. Thank you, council PRESIDENT And thank you calling for staying on the line and going through the council meeting to participate in the public hearing here at the end, I know that sometimes these meetings can go a little long, but I do appreciate that. You our patient to wait and to vocalize just kind of what some of your standpoint know we've heard this item earlier this year. One thing that I would want to just simply like confirmation, this Mormon on the work and what the emergency Bateman been brought. And a place of the work has been done just give up her act like during your staff report give this to another round way of understanding has everything been completed? Its U.S. Like an assessment to pick up stuff work that's already been done. And to the comments of where that the payments have already attached to the mortgage. Can address the u the fee assessment structure to and when those would go into place are. For clarifying points while we still have 9 for educational purposes. I can begin with the last question that you asked for a check to do with the markets payment and right now, when I do an assessment look up. I see that this is pending assessment. It is not ratified. It is not on the property taxes. If there is some other way that this market company works, that I'm familiar with increase in the amount of the payment that could But this particular assessment is not on the taxes right now. With respect to the work had been completed. Yes, there were permits polls by the city's contractor and finals. The work has been completed respect to making a determination about whether or this is city caused damage, there would be a separate process for making a determination around that and which I believe the court system would be directly taking into account expert testimony on exactly these kinds of things. Thank you as more men and I so I just want to make sure that those 2 things were clear for MISTER Ali comes on line, just mostly because I know sometimes as a I do watch even things like my insurance. My homeowners insurance be recess. That causes and roll-over, sometimes adjustment, mortgage fees. I in this case it wouldn't be the assessment causing the mortgage, too, to go up because it's currently pending, correct? Right? Okay. So just want to clarify that. And then I also wanted reiterate what MISS Moore and has already shared. I want m recommendation today will be to accept recommendation of a legislative hearing. Officer. It is in part because I think the second piece of the main point of your your I think what I'm hearing from you MR. Darling, is the main part of your kind frustration, really lies and whom you believe is at fault for the issues, for the problems. With your home, which would be separate from what the council would have to vote on today, bsed of lack of evidence for that, we would not be the body determine that. What we would be looking at right now is needing need for this assessment to basically be recuperated from work that has been done. And so I you know, with that I'd moved the recommendation of the hearing officer and then after this vote, you kow, it just continue to rock on the do communication with our my legislative aide our office to see if we potentially could just like overall clarify anything else or answer any questions after that. All right. Motion from Ms Johnson. I will say I am also inclined to support that motion primarily because of the exact factor she name, which is that the issue of liability for the damages that he is alleging to have incurred cannot be determined by this body, not at this item or at any juncture. So categorically, unfortunately, we can't consider that in the decision had of us today. And I find the recommendation appropriate. I'm going to pasta to I saw Ms Yang with her hand up. If she wanted to comment Council PRESIDENT Caen, Summer Johnson, I will be supporting your motion. I really appreciate you mentioning yet. This has been different the council before because I was thinking to myself, this sounds so familiar. so I it doesn't sound like. That litigation has happened at all that process. So I was wondering then Marshall typically for situations like this when it is on private property, it's automatically billed to the property owner. Always. Is that right? Council present Councilmember Yang. I. It would be more fairly described as being in the public right of way. But in that portion of public right of way, that is the responsibility of the private property owner. It is the expectation that for water lines for sewer line says someone from the city's main line into the house. That is all the responsibility of the private homeowner. And then just another question for you. So I it's the recommendation passed today and then let's say This did get litigated and it turned out in paper what the property owner is claiming, which is that the city is the one who did the damage. Then it. What the assessment then go to the city. Explained that I'm not familiar with it. Council PRESIDENT The council member I believe that would be. I hate to say at the discretion of but it would be managed by the race litigation team. I would to those started to confirm that. It would be my understanding, however, obviously. With nation's 7 process. Okay. Thank you for explaining that. All right. So there's a motion from Ms Johnson, any other discussion as Johnson giving other. I was just going to add down a quick little another information said bit. So the people over 10 years at this time, MR. Darling is the maximum that the council can recommend sparse amount of time for this type of abatement order, which is why the recommendation is to improve and also to be approved with being payable over a ten-year period. So just wanted to tell. So have with you as you are looking forward to you kind of understand assuming you're still on the line for us. But it's we're not talking to an actual person, but just being him to provide that clarification. I forgot to mention it when I was originally speaking. Thanks. Customer Johnson. All right. Motion from his Johnson to move that recommendation all in favor say Aye. Any opposed. 6 of 8 are not opposed. The resolution is adopted. Alright, is warm. And are there any other items that we need to take an separately today? That's my notes. This is a combined public hearing on the remainder of the agenda items. 28 to 46. I there anyone hre to speak to any of those items? Number, 28, 46. Around. And it does not appear to be so emotion from MISS Just 2 close public hearing and confirm the remainder of the legislative hearing. Consent agenda on favor say Aye, aye. Any opposed. 6. The public hearings are closed in the consent agenda adopted as amended. All right. That brings us the end of our agenda for today and our business. If there's nothing else come before us, we are adjourned.