##VIDEO ID:xa4WH3kGNfA## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance please stand pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right welcome to the city of St Paul Park regular council meeting for November 18th 2024 first item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the October 21st 20124 regular council meeting and wave the reading of the same so moved second I have a motion in a second any discussion all in favor say I I I motion carries 5 z um next is approval of the council Workshop summary of October 21st 2024 and we of the reading of the same also moved second motion a second anything further nothing further all those in favor say I I I I motion carries 5 Z all right next item on the agenda is items from the public um anybody have anything not on the agenda this evening and then I see some people are probably here for some things that are on the agenda um but usually since this is somewhere where uh these items pertain to something not on the agenda I'm going to limit time for everybody to about two minutes if you could um to speak to some of these issues but I want we want to hear briefly your thoughts so open to thees it on the agenda yeah we're gonna during those times oh not during only we're only going to take comments um under the public hearing for the thing my name is Ted Herman and I'm here representing 950 in 9th Avenue on behalf of Crescendo chemical health also known as The Haven the Planning Commission meeting last Tuesday left several points of misinformation and concerns needing to be addressed so I prepared a brief statement to all ensure alliv is covered to start I'm here to request your support in allowing us to serve a lower risk lower needs population in this facility than the current cup provides for the current cup allows for the operation of a high intensity impatient residential treatment program which requires clients to receive their treatment services on site for those unfamiliar inpatient treatment is the second highest level of treatment and most intensive level of treatment only second to detox clients in inpatient treatment are maintaining their sobriety largely because of their access to substances of addiction are restricted and they are at a high risk for relapse tonight we're asking to utilize the facility as a recovery residence to be able to provide treatment offsite at the Haven of Woodburry an outpatient treatment program instead clients in Outpatient Treatment are not achieving sobriety simply because they don't have access to their substances of choice they are further along in their recovery Journey instead they're leveraging sober environments sober support and utilizing healthy decisionmaking to build a life of recovery at the Planning Commission meeting Tuesday night multiple neighbors painted a picture of this being a quiet peaceful crime-free neighborhood free of unwanted people with substance issues a neighborhood where clients were so out of place and unwelcome that the neighbors felt they needed to cross the street in order to protect themselves someone who might not know better may have concluded our clients were nothing but thieves rapists and drug dealers that is unfair and untrue the great irony of the alleged experiences and objections shared vigorously last Tuesday night by neighbors who I expect we may hear from tonight is that three out of four of them according to public records has had their own experiences with the criminal justice system due to substance abuse related struggles with charges ranging from domestic violence to DUI drug dealing and the use of drugs to injure another facilitate a crime these very neighbors during their adult lives were ordered by the courts to obtain chemical dependency evaluations from an organization like ours and follow the recommendations made by professional like ours and including treatment from facilities like ours these neighbors who oppose us were sentenced to variations of jail time probation chemical dependency evaluations random drug and alcohol testing and to pay Financial restitution to their victims I raise that point not to stigmatize or shame people who struggle with substances in their lives including the people in this neighborhood who are similarly Afflicted after all it is people like these who are the clients we serve day in and day out with the utmost respect and compassion I share this for three reasons the first is to spread awareness of the prevalence of chemical dependency issues in society because these issues tend to hide in the shadows one in 10 people over the age of 12 in this country are alcoholic extrapolated for a community the size of St Paul Park that means there are 540 people currently struggling with alcohol use disorder the second reason I bring this up is to ask you to consider the objections of the neighbors who have had substance abuse issues were they organic or were they a genuine concern over our clients ruining the neighborhood or did their objections come from their own traumatic experiences in the criminal justice system during their time of use if the concerns that were voiced are truly about the neighborhood then isn't there a double standard being applied to our clients when one of the previously mentioned criminal incidents was just two years ago lastly I reference these past chemical dependency incidents illustrate that people like our clients and the neighbors can change of given support and opportunity to do so I disagree with their perspectives and opinions the neighbors who spoke in opposition to us were articulate for the most part respectful and Demon demonstrated leadership qualities that we should all want as part of our communities they are living proof that people who struggle with drugs and alcohol deserve our respect support and opportunities to change quite honestly these are the neighbors we invite into programs like ours to share their success stories and how they've come to overcome their struggles this facility began operating as an inpatient chemical dependency Treatment Center in 2021 prior to that this facility has been utilized in other capacities in which we were unaffiliated including as a domestic violence shelter in listening to any negative neighborhood experiences it is important to distinguish between events that occurred prior to our involvement and determine if any of these events happen during we also want St Paul Park to be a quiet peaceful crime-free and drug-free community and we would expect our clients to behave the same way as members of it we see opportunities in the future for clients living in this recovery residence to serve as employees and volunteers of local or organizations here in St Paul Park I would urge the council and the community to resist attempting to relit the existing cup like was done Tuesday night the current cup is a matter of settled law and allows the facility to host impatient chemical dependency treatment and perpetuity it also is not a question of whether the church should exist or if the church should be able to use this building as a member of a residential neighborhood the question before you tonight is whether you will allow us to serve a less challenging lower risk lower needs group of clients who are further along in their sobriety journey in some ways the decision is a function of choosing the devil you know or the devil you don't if we are unable to utilize this facility as a recovery residence our organization will seriously have to look at terminating our lease with the church having said that the church has been invaluable Partners to us and we want them set up for success as well for that reason if we were to leave I would personally make introductions to the many organizations who might want to use this space according to the current cup a high intensity inpatient residential facility I actually have a meeting next week with a private Equity Group from Florida who would like advice on how to open their first inpatient treatment center in Minnesota this facility could be that site if we're unable to utilize it I share this to encourage thinking about whether you would rather have us people who consider ourselves as part of the community occupying this space or do you want to roll the dice with someone else one of the top predictors of whether a person will achieve success in their recovery is their ability to secure safe secure housing we regularly hear clubb clients who are definitely desperately trying to Main maintain their sobriety only to have friends or family members pressure them to use because they miss their using or drinking buddy recovery residences paired with Outpatient Treatment create a sober living environment by enabling clients to form relationships skills and life based on sobriety by breaking out of the cycle of addiction quite honestly recovery residences I'm familiar with are safer and healthier than most homes in America The Haven has provided treatment to many from St Paul Park surrounding communities and the great state of Minnesota for nearly 25 years I'm extraordinarily privileged to be here supported tonight by an amazing group including senior members of my team and members of the Church of St Thomas aquinus we are all invested in ensuring this recovery residence is a non-disruptive success and an asset to the community we respectfully request your support in the changes we have proposed and are happy to answer any questions you may have thank you all right thank you um next on the list we have Jennifer Fraser John maybe hi my name is Jennifer Fraser John I'm the administrator and the compliance officer for 950 9th Avenue and I've had the privilege to work for the last under Haven and with Crescendo um we have a very professional and responsible team most of which are here this evening in addition to following the required statutes put in place from DHS we have an additional common sense approach to our ensure that our facilities run without disruption to our neighborhoods and to our communities last week at the Planning Commission meeting some items were brought forward by community members that I cannot attach to are factual I was shocked to hear these allegations made at the Planning Commission meeting I am the person who receives all of these reports and complaints I am in frequent contact with all of our staff and have we usually have our finger on the pulse of these facilities and we have an open door culture I have record of EMS calls 10 prior to Crescendo and five after Crescendo and these calls are medical calls not trouble in an area just strictly medical for comparison purposes I've also spent 25 years of my life working in nursing home and assisted living I can tell you and that was brought up at the meeting last week too that that could be a purpose for the building that number of calls was a daily number of calls in a 50 bed Assisted Living we probably had 300 emergency calls I have zero I've had to date Zero interaction from anyone from EMS police or fire regarding any inappropriate calls Ted and I are listed with emergency services our personal cell phone number MERS were also listed with Washington County and DHS for any problems or emergencies I've had zero contact from them to date I've not had any complaints from the church or the trustees we have a very good working relationship if some of these things happened I would think I would hear from the church I've had no complaints from Neighbors even though they stood up here and made complaints but we've had no complaints uh it was stated that someone climbed a tree and delivered substances to us through a second story window and blew a kiss I believe if that would have happened I would believe that a police report would have happened we don't have that didn't happen zero of our clients have been arrested on St Thomas aquinus property we have visitation policies in place and we didn't have men hanging out in our parking lot it was stated that Tanis was at Janet's residence twice a day tenuchi is a caterer on site for St aquinus for the funerals um they would call and ask if we wanted if the clients of Janet's residents would be interested in some food that was held at proper temperatures and times the neighborhood also the neighbor also stated that deliveries were made to her residents up to 15 times per week plates of cookies Etc we've never again we've never had a complaint from this neighbor um in our policies and procedures we would never accept homemade food into our facility um when our ladies are living there you can't drop anything off for them um I can only believe these items if they were factual I would have heard complaints from the Catholic Church the neighbors and emergency services and then if any items are ever brought to our attention we complete an investigation Implement any changes immediately as needed thank you thank you I I have some questions can I no okay okay no this is not the time okay um I'm just going to make a brief statement a lot of this stuff should have been brought forward at the public hearing and the question should have been asked there um not to say that after this meeting there can be more discussion um but this is not the place for it in this section of the okay you know know we have to follow a process and that's how we that's how we operate cuz I agree I had several questions and several statements I would like to get into but that's not this is not the time for that thank you thank you for coming and is there anybody else there was nobody else signed up on the list all right moving on to item number three consent agenda this evening on the consent agenda we will be approving re of the commission minutes from the Planning Commission $200 donation to friends in need food shelf approve an agreement with the chess safety annual safety training uh resolution at Council environmental services for inii pay some bills um a resolution adopting some new parking restrictions over here on Hastings Avenue um removing clerk Amy truler from probationary stat St um good job Amy approve exempt gambling app permit for St Thomas we are going to approve just about everybody's liquor licenses and Game Room licenses tobacco licenses and I believe that's it on the consent agenda oh Mr Mayor yes council member hson uh the agenda actually went into the late alphabet first time I've ever seen go that far that is incredible but uh I would move that we approve tonight's consent agenda a second I have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda any further discussion yes I have a couple of uh questions um um with regards to P for off sale Liquors just uh is that is this a place where we just vote for this being on here and further discussions can be right they've met all the conditions for approval for their license they have no um infractions as reported by the chief okay or um and they've met all qualifications for um State approval um the state just requires that we give approval approval okay and um was it on for Duffy yeah the the parking restrictions the parking restrictions can cuz I've talked to a couple of the the people over there can we have like resident parking only right so between myself and the um okay good myself the the county and um Public Works we have reached a resolution the county it's a county road so we really don't have they just want to know that we will approve and we have been in contact with the residents the whole way but can instead of no parking can it be resident parking only no you can't just you know I would like to say that I'm the only one that can park in front of my own house but um it there are going to be limited hours as it states in the resolution um limited days um so that we don't hinder any of the other entities around there and also um some of the other stuff and then it's just going to be a part of the block not the entire block so okay all right anything else all right all those in favor say I hi motion carries 5 Z all right we are on three on to item number four we're going to close the regular council meeting open the public hearing tax increment financing district for 41 and Mr Mayor we have Tammy here tonight from Northland Securities and she's going to give a presentation on the tip District I think this is on mayor council Tammy yall with Northland Public Finance serving as advisor to the city on the drafting of the tax increment financing plan in this process for establishment I have about 14 slides that I would like to go through they will focus on the specific agenda item as well as providing some general background on tax increment financing as it's been a number of years before the city has had a request before it for establishment and Kevin I think you have control or do I hear you do I will let me move over one if this mic works which it may excellent so this is on your agenda tonight um there are two resolutions the first resolution um is to approve the development District program for development District Number Four and the tax increment financing plan for the proposed tax increment financing District number 4-1 establishing that district and the um tax increment financing District 4-1 within development District number four that's a lot of words what that means under Minnesota law tax inment financing districts are established within project areas when a city council establishes a project area it is called the development District development districts can be larger than boundaries of tax increment financing districts in St Paul Park your practice has been for your development districts to be co-terminus with the boundaries of the Tiff District so I realize that may be a little bit confusing as to why all those items but that is why so you'd be establishing development District Number Four which boundaries are the same as the proposed Tiff district and I'll have that map up here in a moment when there was more flexibility in years past in Minnesota law project areas were more important because you could spend money outside generated from a tiff District within a larger geographic area that is not the case today the statutes that govern the use of Tiff are much more restrictive there is a second resolution on your agenda tonight approving an inter fund loan that relates to providing the opportunity for the city should you incur costs related to administration of this District in advance of the district generating increment approval of this resolution provides the ability to reimburse yourself in the future after development occurs and there's actually tax increment generated it doesn't require you to do that so this is really provides an opportunity most cities choose to approve an inter fund loan resolution related to admin again referring to the statute the law requires that you approve that resolution before you incur those costs so those are the two items so now now I'm going to get into some background here is a map of the proposed boundaries of the Tiff district and as I noted the boundaries of Municipal development District Number Four are the exact same and it's the red dashed line and there are six tax current tax Parcels within that boundary and that property can be repoted and is proposed to be and changed but the outside boundaries of that Tiff District cannot change after you adopt and establish the district without it would require another public hearing and action by the city council related to that so those boundaries will be fixed subject to if there were to be consideration and there are a lot of rules related to how these boundaries were defined with respect to the findings the Tiff plan so the law governs that you're required to do this document um and it is in your packet this evening and it checks all the boxes with respect to the requirements for establishment of a Redevelopment tax increment financing district and part of the process is that plan that written document has to be shared with the county and the school district as well as the county commissioner that has jurisdiction over these tax Parcels they do not have the opportunity to veto but they have the opportunity to comment or to be here this evening the city did um the city administrator did receive a written letter from Washington County in support of this project and the establishment of the Tiff district and there is a letter that um states that it's consistent with the County's policy and they're um wanting to support that economic development in the community I did not receive any comments from the school district I'm not where that City staff did either and I'll repeat there's no requirement that they comment but they are afforded that opportunity and advance of the hearing the proposed project and there's a typo here the developers proposing or missing were the Redevelopment of approximately 26 Acres redevelop may occur in a larger area but the boundaries within the Tiff District where the assistance would be provided is that 26 acres and that's consistent with the um findings of the area performed by lhb which was the consultant that did the inspection and development of the report related to the Redevelopment findings the tax increment Finance plan includes a few pages from the larger report prepared by lhb that is on on file at City Hall the development as proposed includes phase construction of approximately 255 rental apartment units within multiple apartment buildings 20 um 20 single family homes and 30 town home units among other improvements those plans serve the basis for estimating future tax increment Revenue that would be captured and I will cover that in a moment but in general tax increment under Minnesota law is simply defined as the difference between what the tax is generated from the current value as it exists at the time of certification compared to what new development occurs and the new taxes that are Genera the city is able to capture the increase in property taxes with the exception of any commercial property tax the state property tax that may be generated and the school referendum tax cannot be captured I will cover that in more detail in a moment and I actually spoke ahead so here you go Tiff is a me financing method to capture that increase in value from new development tax increment sometimes just referred to as Tiff is generated by an increase and property taxes resulting from that increase in value from that proposed new development we don't know exactly when the phasing will happen we don't know exactly what the county assessor will evalue that at the tip plan is based upon certain estimates in order for the city to Ser provide a framework for consideration of agreement with the developer and I believe I covered that and noted the referendum so I'm going to move ahead this chart and I don't for those viewing if you can't read all the numbers this is really meant to illustrate more broadly so current taxes on the parcels within the boundaries of the Tiff district for taxes payable in 24 generated um assuming all taxes were paid on time and in full 68529 based upon estimates in the Tiff plan and the timing for phase development and the completion of those housing units that I noted a few minutes ago full completion expected in 2028 so that would be taxes first payable in 2030 based upon full value and I'm just going to focus on the bottom line here the total annual taxes received that will continue to be received by the taxing jurisdictions about taxes those would be payable to the school district and not captured the annual captured tax increment that is projected to be captured in the county Distributing to the city and this is the first year full value approximately $470,000 a year that's before assuming any inflationary increase to Value so total combined estimated real estate taxes Tiff does not Abate tax ta Property Owners within that District they receive their tax statements while the line items look a little bit different because there's a line item that's says tax increment financing their total property taxes are the same and those are due and payable it is the county then that does the calculation of the administration to send tax increment to the city to deposit into that fund this is a snapshot of the budget and I mentioned that term framework the Tiff plan serves the framework tonight you are not entering into an agreement with the developer if you approve this Tiff plan you are providing a budget a framework for discussions and final negotiation and a contract would be brought before an agreement a tiff agreement for the city council's consideration based upon the estimates within the Tiff plan and the projection for development including the phasing of that development to increment over the maximum duration of this District which is 26 years for a Redevelopment Tiff District which is the type of Tiff District being considered is approximately 22.7 million that's future value that's 26 years of collecting that that's not all at one time the budget for that with respect to how those dollars would be allocated and this becomes not to exceed amounts site Improvement and prep costs approximately 10 .3 million that provides the opportunity to have discussion and consider reimbursement on a Pago basis all or a portion of those costs that the developer May incur administrative costs administrative cost means the tax increment that would not be paid out to a developer and the city would retain to pay actual costs that may be incurred million dollars seems a lot this is 26 years for this District if the city does not and may not incur costs at that level then those dollars ultimately would be returned to the county for redistribution to the city the county and the school district no longer Tiff at that point because Tiff is collected over time as taxes are paid over that duration the city and the developer can be paid interest as proposed you would not be directly financing providing any upfront assistance to the developer they would have to provide the equity and the financing to pay for their project should you ultimately enter into an agreement with them to provide assistance it would be on a payo basis as they construct what they said they were going to construct as they pay their taxes and you collect increment then pursuant to terms of an agreement you would make typically semiannual payments to the developer to reimburse and under this budget the not to seed amount would be 10.3 million tonight you're not being asked to consider 10.3 million it's simply that's the outside number based upon the plan that is before you tonight so that get a long way of getting to that interest expense this is based upon 5% interest that could be payable to the developer because the developer will have to finance those costs and for the city to pay itself for any cost that it may incur in advance of collecting that increment so this is the budget this is actually in the plan so later on your agenda if you adopt this resolution this becomes the budget and the not to exceed amount this amount gets provided to the county um state auditor as well um becomes your budget the terms for the assistance again I covered this a few times this document tonight and resolution adopts the plan does not enter into the agreement with the developer um that would be come before you at a separate meeting I've said that a few times because that's an important distinction tonight is simply the plan and that agreement would specify the specific terms what the developer would be agreeing to construct commencement completion date all those important terms and factors here's an example and again this is not for tonight but if you were to go up to that not to exceed amount there would be a payo which and it's called payo because as they pay their taxes twice a year twice a year the city under terms of an agreement would agree to reimburse costs the most you could do is the 10.2 million and that's based upon that estimate Assumption of 5% and that is based upon current market conditions that rate is also negotiable the Tiff note would be payable solely from the net available semiannual tax increment this would not be a general obligation Pledge of the city if you had a chance to read the plan you may have certain um seen that word bonds under Minnesota law a pgo tiff note under the Tiff law is considered a bond but it is not a general obligation pledge such as when you issue General obligation bonds to finance street improvements or other public improvements where you're putting the full faith in credit this is payable solely from increment a net available semiannual um tax increments typically would mean 90 95% of the tax increment collected subject to final negotiations the terms for assistance to the developer continued the developer assumes the risk that the future tax increment would be at the levels projected as I've noted several times that's a not to exceed amount if there's recessions the county values the um final development less than what is in the Tiff plan they don't receive increment based upon those estimates in the Tiff plan they receive increment based upon the actual increment generated payable under the terms of an agreement that they would enter into with the city and last Point um on that 26 years that duration can go up to 26 years it may be less subject to what is ultimately in that agreement with the developer but cannot exceed that 26 years and you might say that's an odd number the way the law is written it's 25 years after the first year of increment thus 26 years the consideration for terms for assistant these findings and important points are based upon um when you would enter into that agreement so you're not simply saying we're going to Abate or give back taxes it's your ultimate finding finding that but for the Tiff assistance to the developer that the project as proposed which includes several different types of housing would not proceed but for that assist and ultimately you the city council gets to determine that based upon information from Northland your staff on that finding of that butt for here are the key dates so some things have already happened um the hearing notice was sent to the or notice of the hearing was sent to the county commissioner on October 9th a draft of the Tiff plan was sent to the school district on the and the county on October 18th as I noted we did see or the City received a written letter from Washington um County and we also received some general comments on the parcels but the important one being the letter tonight November or excuse me November 12th is when the Planning Commission considered their findings that the development is consistent with the development of the city as the as a whole they don't the Planning Commission is not asked to get into the financial considerations the it's that finding that the development is consistent with the development objectives of the city as a whole to date is the public hearing at a future meeting the city council would consider approval of the Tiff agreement which has not been drafted yet um that will happen pending what you decide tonight and whether you approve it that is the conclusion of my comments and I would end where I started there are two resolutions on your agenda and I'm just going to drive back there right there there's two resolutions on your agenda the first would in essence a Lish the Tiff District the second would approve that in fund loan resolution giving you the ability um to consider reimbursing yourself from any cost incurred in advance with that mayor city council I realize this is Technical and a lot of information but that is really the high points of what was in your packet so I'm happy to answer any questions thank you questions from it's kind of overring for me personally not sure what the questions would be no anybody I guess I would have a question um at what point would we see the I guess going into business with somebody basically is what the city is um giving them money to develop on future taxpayer dollars um so that they can make money um um where can we or could we possibly see the validity of their company financing the solidness of the I mean so far all I've seen is a picture you know when does that come afterwards has anybody looked into these issues um or is this just on a hope and prayer that the financing and because a project this size and scope especially down there is is going to be a lot of money not to mention the taxpayer dollars that we're talking about shelling out um how how do we figure out how solid that person is that or company corporation that is going to be moving forward great question so to to point um to date the developer did make application they provided um financial statements to Northland directly and they have also provided other information that was public with their application tonight you do not have those details being offered to you because the actual agreement is not before you in the final terms but again that um your consideration so it's not a matter of taking and this is important for the viewing public taxes from existing taxpayers and saying we're going to use this to assist this development now I say that but ultimately information will be shared with you at that meeting that um it may require public hearing depending on if there's any commercial assistance housing does not require business subsidy hearing but at that meeting where you will be asked to consider that agreement that is where that background will be once the specific amount and terms are identified and provided as a recommendation and an actual written document for the city council to consider tonight would just be the plan or the framework so this did not include in your packet that financial analysis with respect to the developer and how that's looked at is returns with and without that assistance because you're not trying to increase their returns you're trying to should you choose to approve that agreement that you are assisting the project so it will be feasible within the reasonable near term but you get to decide if you make that finding that but for this assistance that this project would not go forward if the council does not make that finding or conclude that as individual members then you should not support that project or that agreement at that point and if I may mayor I always like to point this out too it's not that the developer I stand before you saying you need to do this or nothing is going to happen on that property it's that if you make that finding that this project as proposed with its scope and phasing would not occur but for the assistance right no I I understand the butt Forest um myself I just think that we have a lot of newer Cil members I guess I have a question for you Kevin um should we deny this tonight what are the options of the developer to move forward um and maybe get some different information to some of the council members on certain things would it require a reapplication process or Mr Mayor I mean I don't know if I can answer that on behalf of the developer um from the conversations that we've had in the past I think they would move on I think they you know they need this money in order for them to do the project but like Tammy said you know it doesn't mean that a project will never happen there it just means that this developer you know needs this wants this in order to move forward with the project all right do anybody else have any questions I I might just ask me it's already been talked and I didn't catch it but I know that that area needs a lot of infrastructure is that infrastructure a part of this development and is that infrastructure cost and expensing a part of the Tiff plan as a whole how does all getting the land ready it's not like a farm field where you just go in and excavate and bury pipes this isn't that kind of situation so there's a lot involved just to make it to the next step how does that all fit into the cost and what where does that financial responsibility lie mayor council so infrastructure and public improvements are Tiff eligible costs tonight you don't have before you and I'm sorry to keep saying that the agreement in the terms of you know what would be the cost that the developer will bear if any what would be the cost that the city would finance and reimburse from future increment those are deal terms to be addressed subject to your approval of the Tiff plan in order for those negotiations to occur it to me it seems like there's a lot of unknowns that were asked to make a rather significant decision about and I'm I'm new here so that I'm very inexperienced in this whole process but um it it seems like a a a lot of uh unknowns for the size of the and scope of the project that's in front of us for a city of this size it has been a while since we managed one of these but my question again is I keep hearing uh tell me if I'm hearing correctly that uh tonight is just the first step but there are plenty of steps along the way for us to reconsider this that is correct you could approve it tonight pass the resolution and you may never enter into an agreement with the developer if you don't there would be two options you could have an established District you could keep it open and wait for another developer you could act to resend those actions and not move forward this was done in two parts in order the developer to get some shity that the city is willing to even consider the establishment of the district to then have those discussions on what costs will be reimbursed the question on the public improvements that will be necessary there's a lot of work to do the first step is even the consideration of the use of this tool and so then to kind of follow up on their questions a little bit it also then does not hamstring us into the specific proposal as in what the land use is um so this is based the Tiff plan is based upon what I had up there for the proposed project the number of housing units in the phasing let's just say over the next few months if that dra drastically changed it may require before this District would be requested for certification the county which would not happen until after you we're ready to do that it may require that you come back and modify this plan a modification that results in more increment being projected would require notice to the county and school and changes that is entirely possible to do that but that's a different budget framework than what is presented to you tonight maybe a different budget framework than is presented and I heard that term also staged so that means it's the project is not projected to be completed fully and it's stag so it will be staged out is that correct it is projected in the plan the Tiff plan that is before you tonight that it would be fully completed by 2028 for taxes first payable in 2030 there's always that two construction fully completed by 28 full value for taxes first payable in 2030 sure I have a question um are we allowed to know who the developer is um yes I believe the developer is in the room it would be up to the mayor and councel if you want the developer to address you I have one other question go ahead um it sounds like and there's a map given of a specific area that the Tiff controls that that boundaries if you entered into an agreement with a tiff but then down the line it doesn't proceed is the city obligated to um be restricted by that boundary should there be a time that other lands may become a part of of a greater development and you know one would call this partiel a and if there was a parcel B and somebody came in and bought a and b is that first Tiff a requirement that could affect the expansion or restriction of one beyond that time I understand the question it would depend on the finding so to establish a Redevelopment District there's both a condition and a coverage test that you have to find that more than 50% of the buildings within the boundaries of this little red box here are found to be substandard lhb on behalf of the city did those inspections and made that founding finding the second test is coverage More than 70% of the area of a Redevelopment Tiff district has to be occupied by utilities um driveways um streets um building land area buildings lhb also completed that review and made the findings that the boundaries of this District meet that so to answer your question to enlarge it at a future date it would depend on the facts of the parcels that were being added and it would depend on whether the condition of any of those substandard buildings had changed meaning let's just say this project doesn't go forward some buildings are removed some standard well down the road you may no longer have the same set of facts with respect to establishing this tool a Redevelopment District it gets a technical on those calculations which is why there's the findings report in that plan but those are the two things there's a coverage test and a condition test this boundary in the parcels with in Meet both of those tests for you to consider establishment of a Redevelopment [Applause] District all right any more questions for missal all right well thank you very much thank you do we have anybody else that wishes to come up and give some testimony during this public hearing anybody else have any other questions for staff or myself I do not all right this time we're going to close the public hearing reopen the council meeting item number four do I have a motion is it possible to make a motion that says um pending further understanding or information that is not currently available that this be Revisited um yeah that's called a table okay table of motion but I mean at this point we either just um if you like the project we move forward if you don't like the project we don't move forward and then can probably move with staff and the developer to um see where we go from here um I um I'll take the step I'll um I think it's a good project but I think there's a lot of uh unanswered questions that everybody has I mean there there's a lot of questions so I would move to uh say no to this resolution to turn it on well the resolution as listed is uh to approve the development District so we need a motion to approve and then we vote either yes or no and then I'll make the motion to approve it and we can vote all right I have a motion I have a second I'll second I have a motion a second to approve development District number 4.1 tax findings all in favor say I I all opposed I I motion fails 41 All right so then there's no need for resolution 1730 on to item number five new business before us in new business we have approved resolution 1731 of resolution denying the St Thomas aquinus cup I'll make the motion I want to have some discussion's got some Mr Mayor honorable Mr Mayor honorable members of the council it's very nice to be with you this evening we have an application at the Planning Commission reviewed at a public hearing last week uh and you heard some commentary on it in the open Forum uh this was an application related to an ordinance Amendment and a cup amendment to change the nature of the bu the old rectory building at the St Thomas aquinus Church as you understand and the idea was was that four years ago the city council approved an amendment to allow that building to be used as a residential care facility chemical uh treatment center and with that uh Amendment then they received a cup to do that what they're seeking now is to change the cup to be uh through an ordinance Amendment allow that this include a clause in the definition of what they're doing to be that people can reside here while receiving chemical dependency treatment elsewhere and then add that to the cup and there was some discussion around possible conditions on that at the Planning Commission But ultimately the Planning Commission chose to recommend denial of the request to the council citing concerns over the fact that when it's uh chemical dependency Treatment Center there's on there's staff on site and they felt that changing this into more of a predominantly residential use group residential use with off-site Services was changing the nature and the intent of what was approved here and they had concerns about that uh so if you accept their recommendation that's what the resolution is based on and if you were to wish to have a different consideration you would have to direct staff to come back with those findings um There Was the vote and the Planning Commission was 3 to one in favor of that recommendation there was one member who felt that what the proposed use was substantially similar to what is there now and therefore acceptable so again if you wanted to do something different you'd have to send us back to prepare the findings and there were some discussion of possible condition I conditions that the Planning Commission had that we would then bring those to you but if you just accept the planning commission's recommendation the finding is is that this change of use did not fit the P2 District in the low density residential area anymore because it was largely just a group residential facility without the on call staff or the staff on site that had been there before it was a different type of program that they felt was not compatible with the area all right question Nate yeah um thank you for your work on this the so if we just send you back to potentially work on this we don't need to necessarily adopt this resolution correct you could table it and then we can bring this back at your next meeting or the meeting after when whenever you want to hear this again um because I'm sure as everybody knows in this city state I'm a big proponent of um recovery um I am not a big proponent of this policy but I am willing to listen and I have um some questions and concerns myself I did watch the entire meeting the other night um and I am willing to make a motion to send Nate back to do some work and work with all parties involved to maybe come up with a solution but I am not in favor of either accepting or denying the way that it is so um Mr Mayor if I may ask um you have like if there's things that I mean we could come up with some conditions around the concept that could be placed on it and present those to you at a future meeting run them by the applicant and then if that's still not acceptable then at that time you could adopt the resolution or if you feel that it's close enough no that I think that sounds good and maybe anybody else here who has any questions or concerns could send Nate email Nate their ideas on where we go from here maybe give us some Planning Commission people or Kevin on what you think and and go from there how does that sound sounds sounds good I have a couple questions yep go ahead and comments my friend was in in the at that place a year ago and I visited her I brought her food that had to be in a container bought from the store so like you said no homemade anything um but it closed down very quickly and without notice so I'm wondering what happened there and you know cuz she was left with nowhere to go so that's my concern there you know they get in there then they shut down and I don't know the reason why it's shut down and neither did she and you can maybe get with some of these people after the meeting and find out yeah I think right now and personally I see it as funding Statewide and I worked up on this up at the capital and everything is just becoming so hard and one of the areas we're missing in is chemical dependency so many other things can be treated and changed whether it's Public Safety or mental health issues and all kinds of other things if we just deal with the root cause of chemical dependency but we're not putting our money where our mouth is so that's another state issue that I'll be up there talking about but anyways I see this as maybe it's a funding issue and how can we make these models work and I think a lot of these organizations are just trying to find ways to still open their doors to be available to people unfortunately um we all have people we need to answer to and and certain decisions to be made so I think that's the council's recommendation at this point Nate does that seem okay yep all right let's move on to item number B resolution 1732 did you want to speak on that or pretty self-explanatory I would I the opportunity to speak on that I know we love to listen to that voice it's kind of like Smooth mellow Jazz well this is the uh oil refinery it's just adding a um new fixture on their property which would be it's above the height requirements and then anytime they add something to the site they have to amend their cup and it's above the height requirements the DNR did not have an issue with it because it's not visible from the river but uh so we have a resolution before you related to just the approval of that um and the Planning Commission reviewed it and recommended approval all right thanks Nate well you're up there and then we'll just move forward you just want to give us a brief review on uh the can cannabis regulation well uh yes so the new cannabis uh registration program starts technically on January 1st and so we've prepared an ordinance which allows the city to register the Cannabis businesses retail businesses in the city so they have to get a registration from the city city would be handling that operation and then it also places certain uh uses that are related to the Cannabis businesses in certain zoning districts and with that uh we reviewed this at the Planning Commission uh at their previous meeting not this last one but it was a month ago and they had some uh discussion on the topic and we prepared to map uh because they were talking about placing buffers on the uses so you can add a buffer that says it can't be so close to a daycare center a treatment center a school things like that and so they place these buffers on the properties and that map that you see in your packet and that just illustrates what the buffers are like there was a lot of discussion at the Planning Commission about that because they didn't want to wipe out people's ability to have these businesses but at the same time they wanted to keep them away from facilities that were minors frequently uh congregate or daycare centers and schools things like that and so they recommended uh to place the buffers on at this point in time to the maximum ability Allowed by the um by the statute because the statute says it can be a th000 ft from a school but it's 500 from the other uses and so they wanted to take the maximum at this time and then potentially re-evaluate it through a code Amendment if somebody wanted to be in that area but just not knowing what these business businesses would actually be like in the community they wanted to take the generally the more conservative approach with it um but they were sensitive to the fact and that's what their discussion was about was they didn't want to harm business opportunity but at the same time didn't want to just have it thrown wide open throughout the city he wanted to have the ability to restrict and then with the zoning districts uh they chose to um the way that they chose to approach that was to require some of the types of uses to have um interim use permits and um so like the cultivation business be allowed in the I2 with an interim use permit provided the facility is indoors that was the only performance standard that they have with that then same with the wholesale being i1 I2 with an iup then the retail would be B1 B2 mx1a and MX 2A those mx1a is like the area right right here at the intersection when you come into town um and the other one is the marina area so in those so it' be an all retail districts um as just a permitted use provided you're meeting the buffer and then for the transportation and delivery businesses again we're back into the industrial districts with an interim use so what they did was they just kind of matched it to the industrial districts except the retail and they it just permitted in all retail districts and then but it would have the buffer on the on the on those and then the iups would be for the more industrial type uses and just the concern being that there could be odors and other impacts and like you might want to require screening they'll have fencing around it and just so you could look at the plan but not that you would necessarily say no you can't do that here it would just be that you could look at it try to mitigate some of the concerns but they didn't we didn't get into like some big discussion about additional standards or just kind of that basic level of of stuff because generally the Planning Commission was open to the idea as a business opportunity but wanted to mitigate against the potential concern so the buffers would apply to all of it but in these zoning districts the i1 I2 where the more industrial stuff would be going on you'd have the ability to add additional conditions to the permit like screening like odor scrubbers if needed you know things like that you could look at it and and come up with things to mitigate against it and that's the Crux of what the ordinance is and um in my understanding we just needed to get something in place by the end of the year yeah um per state law and then like you said we can you can codex and and again like somebody wants to do a business idea they come to you and they pitch it just you know and they say hey we'd like to do this here and you can do an ordinance Amendment then to allow it in a different context and that means that you get to review that before it would happen then but if they're in the if they're outside of the buffer and they are in a commercial District you're saying that you would let them do the B the retail business and then the industrial businesses would require like the Planning Commission to hold a public hearing and then the council to approve it all right I have question on that and maybe it's covered um this is just from as a business that that we're talking here the business planning as far as where where it may be used and the legalities or ordinances that might surround that is that a separate issue or is that a part of the same issue yeah we've got that in this ordinance where it just says it can't you can't use in a public place okay so a place of public accommodation um or like a park something you can't they can't walk down the street you know doing it um it's just that's the basic we took that from the model ordinance just as a basic um regulation on that so you wouldn't be able to S you know be at a park or uh so and again it's a learning curve for all of us I think at this point with what coming I mean it's legal now we haven't seen too many issues but we still want to be able to regulate especially our city parks where our kids go and things like that um and if we need to you know delve into it more be more than happy to all right get 1732 just a quick question Nate before you head off um the marathon Refinery cup what did the Planning Commission have to say on that the planning commission's discussion was related around in the past they've allowed similar things at the site City we've allowed similar things and this isn't going to be the tallest thing there and it's not going to be like is you know the way that it works from the the rivers way lower to that site you can't really see in there from that perspect Ive that they felt that it would be generally acceptable because you know in the past they've allowed similar things and one of the things that the Planning Commission always talks about when they review the refineries cup amendments the first question they always ask does this improve the operations and make the refinery more efficient um because when it's more efficient there's less impacts to the surrounding area and so because of that they were very much favorable to the request thanks more efficient the processing the less emissions I think is yeah so it's going to help with the efficiency and reduce emissions and cap increase capacity Mr Mayor have we officially uh tabled resol 17 31's out of the pocket we're on to 1732 Mr Mayor I move that we adopt resolution number 1732 which is approving Marathon Refinery cup second have a motion a second any further discussion all in favor say I I motion carries 5 Z if I may council member Swinson I move that we adopt ordinance number 773 which is pertaining to regulating cannabis businesses never thought you'd say that all right I'll second I have a motion in a second to adopt ordinance number 773 any further discussion all in favor say I I I motion carries 5 Z all right we have a review from lenar nesvig is somebody going to give us a review on this Kevin he's going to tell us about it Nate why did you sit down well good evening again um what we have now is a there's a concept plan application for lenar they are seeking to place uh 48 units single family houses that were designed explicitly to meet your zoning standards for the R1 zoning District which is your major single family District um you have like the area on the east side of the railroad tracks through the city is either Zone like public park or public institutional or single family residential right and so there's a property over there it's on 18th in Lincoln which at the southwest corner of that intersection along the railroad tracks that lenar would like to place a single family subdivision on and they've designed it to meet your standards the from Road extensions off of Ashland and um and um Summit would be serving the site and essentially they designed it to meet your standards they've shown how they could uh accommodate sewer and water to the site and the city Engineers provided them with some comments related to servicing the site that they would have to meet before they come back to the preliminary plat stage and then there's also the open question of what the city would do with the road right of way in Geneva uh which is a road that on the border of St Paul Park and Cottage Grove dirt road yeah it's a privately maintained dirt road right now and so that's the one thing that we need to figure out with them before they come back to pre- Plat and they said that they'd be open to working on that with us and we'll have to discuss it with Cottage Grove as well we got some comments from Cottage Grove on it that uh they felt that uh you know they said just basically that the roads in St Paul Park and we'll have to discuss that with them because it would potentially serve their residents so we'll have a discussion with him on that other than that though uh this concept plan met code requirements and we felt that uh generally speaking that it was an acceptable plan and the Planning Commission spoke favorably of it and um all we would need to do is before they come back to pre-at meet the city Engineers recommendations related to uh sewer water and storm water and then uh we'd have to have this discussion over how to handle Geneva because we have to resolve that at the pre-plated approval and the fine folks from lenar said they were looking forward to the conversation and that they were looking forward to being in the city and so um with that I mean it meets the comp plan it meets the zoning so everything looked so quick question 48 homes are going to be in St Paul Park yep and More in Cottage Grove right now all they're proposing is this one development there was a con plan that the property owner uh had sent to us which showed other pieces of the puzzle right that's what I was I know I've had some outside discussions and there's some Refinery issues and other issues but so this right here is just that person it's just it's just at this time and in the future maybe they would do uh something else or somebody else might do something else in here which is why we have to have this discussion about Geneva right because that's the future but what lenar is focusing on is just extending Ashland and Summit into this property developing off of that and coming up with a way to uh resolve the Geneva issue and and move forward and get the project done the rest of the anything else that you've seen is not part of this application or discussion at this time because all they're formally seeking is a discussion on this one piece all right I have one question the parcel that's just south of that maybe is the where the triangle is diminishing is that still St Paul Park property yeah that more development could potentially be done with potentially yep and so they provided a road stub that comes through the development that they're doing in St Paul Park in case Geneva doesn't get built they could continue it through there but uh again like when when you like we've been through this a few times in um in the recent past where we've had developers develop properties adjacent to undeveloped rights of way like this and there's different ways in which we handle that and so we just need to work with the developer on a mutually acceptable way to handle that but at this point in time that's kind of more of an intense discussion so if you like the development plan you think it's good we would go forward and work that out with them on how to handle that going forward and then they you would see your that with your preliminary plot application sounds good sounds good thanks Nate item number six reports from the council council members fun and public works thank you Mr Mayor our next scheduled meeting is December 3rd here at City Hall at 5:00 I want to remind everybody that you cannot park on the public streets anywhere between 2: and 5: otherwise you'll get yourself a friendly little ticket from the police department I think we're waiting until the first snowfall waiting are we're still waiting for the first snowfall well excuse me then we're going to wait till the first snowfall and then that'll run till April first or until you hear from us otherwise since I've just been corrected on that one that's all I have Mr Mayor you sure you're not planning on snow um council members enter Public Safety we meet uh December 5th but that could change I would say pay attention to uh the city web page all right thank you council member zener council member Conrad Planning Commission I was unable to attend the last meeting and it was quite eventful and long and I think a lot of that was discussed but the next meeting will be December 9th is scheduled for December 9th at 7 p.m. thank you council member conrack council member whitre hemingson parks and R um our next meeting is Kevin do you have that I didn't write that down I'm sorry but but our next Bunko is December 12th um down at Heritage and all our money that we raise go is going to a mural down at vets Park our glow in the sleding event hopefully will be December 28th if we get snow and we're looking for volunteers if anyone wants to volunteer our next city council meeting is December 12th and I just want to remind everybody this Friday is uh the fire Association Hammer turkey raffle and on November 24th uh the fireman will be delivering pizzas from carbonis and a fir truck so get your orders in and then carbonis gives 20% of what they make all day to the fire Association is that November 24th yeah November 24th Sunday and the and Carboni opens at noon that day but you can call in pre-order is there a Vikings game at noon there is a Vikings game at noon and I would recommend you preorder pre- order because it will be a long backup yeah pre-order for sure and or or go down and get frozen pizzas or anything all right thank you council member wh hemingson council member Conrad har Heritage days Heritage st's meeting we're meeting tomorrow at 5:30 at Heritage Park thank you council member Conrad I don't have anything to add this evening I think we've had enough um I have number seven anybody have anything else this evening nothing further before this Council this meeting is adjourned e e