##VIDEO ID:4FGi_dd-eeE## e e e e e e e e e everyone let's call the word the city Commission meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is October 14th 2024 it is 6 PM stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with libery and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do a roll call vice mayor mahand here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Robinson here commissioner res Nikki here mayor Petrella here we have a quorum thank you are there any amendments to the agenda as proposed please I have uh a couple Mr Mayor yes sir uh first I would request that we move item H uh which is the authorization of the city manager to sign or sign the amendment for Renee nalot uh I'd like to move that to an action item and I would also request that that be moved before the decision on the interim City City attorney okay uh additionally I have some discuss uh three discussion items I'd like to add or yes sir okay uh I would like to uh add Revenue sour sources uh I I I I want to discuss several items as it relates to that I don't think any of them would be too long but I do would like to discuss that sure uh I'd also like to discuss our sewer system longterm as well as uh at time of impact uh that you know depending on how the rest of the commission goes that maybe a short conversation or a long conversation but I do have some questions about that uh third uh I would ask that we have a discussion item on the debris debris pickup program and as possible the city manager may already going to address this but if not I'd like it added to the discussion items thank and finally I would request that um we have a discussion on existing permit extensions so that's all I have sir that's four items I understand it's not normal time so no no I'm just saying you said three three I have um just for consent d f and g if it could be moved to action okay so those will be items 4 C and 4 d just for clarification that I hear d f and g correct so so one more letter sorry I thought I only heard FNG G okay mayor I have three items one moment go ahead please a brief presentation by the interim community development director on post disaster operation plan for Community Development I have where would you like to at after audience discussion items discussion items one moment sorry there was a discussion on um I'm sorry the post disaster operational plan for Community Development which may answer a lot of the questions that were added so if we could put that one first yeah and then guide us through the rest okay um the second item is emergency relief paid time off employee donation program and the third item is emergency paid time off Cash Out employee benefit program that's it for me thank you okay any other items okay I have an item for discussion which should be the roll back roll back of uh the roll back for the uh 5year of Permitting for the 50% for FEMA okay all right is there a motion to approve the agenda as amended I move that we approve the agenda as amended I second thank you city clerk please have a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robins yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you do we have any general audience comments yes sir I have Mary R I don't know how to pronounce your last name I'm sorry you can come up great if you please state your name and address for the record I've never done this before so sure if you'll just state your name and address for the record Mary R I live at 9321 blind pass I live in Captiva K development sure if you're aware of that um never done this so I'm nervous so bear with me okay sorry first of all thank you all I know you're doing so much for all of us it's been really tough for us and I know you guys are helping us out so I don't want you to think we don't appreciate it I do appreciate it okay I'm here as on behalf of our HOA 110 households in our development and as you know the Egan Park dump is right next to us okay I understand completely that we have to have a dump I understand why we're doing it we're just really concerned about rats and animals After afterwards and I'm really I'm pleading with you I'm asking you to please come up with I don't know if you already have a plan but come up with some kind of plan so that it's not going to be a problem for us I don't know whether it's again as simple as putting rat traps all over the place or guarding it all out but we just you know there's 20 of our households that look out the front door and there it is and we just keep seeing it growing every day and I I I see food in there I see everything and it's scary it's really scary for us did I see what I supposed to say you say whatever you like the time is yours um are you supposed to tell me something back or that we just leave is that the way we leave this in this in this I think for your specific uh concerns I think the city manager and some of the discussion items at the end are going to address most of that you're going to address that yes okay well it's going to be like the very last item that we're going to talk about tonight you can also catch it up on online you can watch it on YouTube or also on the city Channel or if you give me your name and number an email I'll call you tomorrow I'll do that all right thank you Robin Miller please state your name and address for the record Robin Miller 6990 Golf Boulevard president CEO Tampa Bay Beach's Chamber of Commerce and again as as the previous speaker we thank all of you and these are trying times we know that um with all due respect my job here today is to represent the business community and I'm here as the advocate for the entire business Community here in St P Beach and they're they're crying for representation and and help and I thank you uh commissioner for putting look back on discussion because that's definitely an important item that we've been discussing for days even I know I reached out to Francis prior to Milton um you you have a resilient Community overall and I understand the Discord we've had in the past as it results with tourism and and business Community but I think now we understand that the resiliency we need in this community exists and I'm here to just plead with you that we understand and see if we had new structures here we would be online we'd have housing for our residents we'd have food we'd have air conditioning much quicker than we would have in in both of these inst instances um I'm going to hold back my emotions very hard being up and down the entire Golf Boulevard representing the golf beaches of panel's County um you know as a city you guys have organized the best you can the most important thing I hope also resonates is that we need more clear concise communication to your business Community permitting has not changed from prior storm to post storm right but in angst and in in debris and there's a lot more debris in their mind than just the debris they've taken out of their facility it's an it's employees it's inventory it's structure it's loans they only get loans so so could we please try and and the chamber's here to help um prider Milton we we printed we were going to walk with volunteers and hand out flyers we need clear concise communication to that segment right we don't want to have to do stop orders we don't want to have to prolong any process to get back online I know the residents have that as well I'm here to speak about business and I just really um hope that resonates we respect every one of your positions and in all the hours I know that everyone is working um and your chamber is here for you we're a resource center on Golf Boulevard we've got sbdc that came online um to the Tradewinds we brought in healthc care we've brought in Food Services we're here to be an arm and an extension for your business Community please use us thank you thank you Rob suan if you please state your name and address for the record certainly Robert Ison 4506 Golf Boulevard before I start on what I going to start on I want to first thank everyone that's in this room for everything you've done it's not easy what we're going through as a business owner as a homeowner we're all going through hell I mean that's a good way to say it I mean it really is there's no other way to put it so EMS firefighters the sheriff have done an amazing job you guys have done an amazing job so far as well trying to get things done we had some looters at our hotel we were able to catch them follow them down the road and we caught them Sher did a great job pulling them over so you guys have done a great job with management trying to keep people off the islands and with the p with the uh sherff passes and everything but what I want to talk to you about is I'm going to give a couple Sim similarities before I get on it what we're experiencing today we're here we feel it we feel the hurt we feel the pain the people that are going to move to St Pete Beach and 2026 2027 2028 and so on will never feel the pain that we are feeling today because they won't they never lived it they're going to hear about it we're going to sit at the bar we'll talk about what we did through what the struggles we had to go through but they're never going to feel the pain and the hurt and everything that we're feeling and the community is feeling right now with that being said 20 or 2000 to 2015 were one of the darkest days in St Pete Beach a 15-year period period where we were going through referendums we were going through trying to put the comp plan together we were trying to put the master plan together we had neighbors fighting against neighbors families fighting against families yes signs no signs it was hell as well this is a bigger hell don't get me wrong because this is affecting everybody but 2000 to 2015 was a hell that you can't describe unless you were there many of you were not there from 201 2015 so I want you to put yourself in the shoes of the hell that you're feeling now to understand and try to understand the hell that the residents and the businesses went through from 2000 2015 to get us to where we are now with a comp plan with a master plan and for us to be considering a moratorium now from the meeting that we had last meet last meeting talking about morium is absolutely ridiculous we need to be rebuilding mayor thank you for mentioning that you're going to rebuild and want to build bigger and better when Biden was here so I appreciate that I hope you stick to your word and do that we have a comp plan that's ready we have a master plan that's ready we need to rebuild I'm ready to rebuild right now I have a permits that were approved in 2015 for new hotel if you guys give me the green light I will build you a brand new hotel I have no issue with that but we need to cut the red tape out there's so much red tape I'm hearing it from other business communities people want to put drywall up they're getting a stop order people want to fix their roof right after the hurricane the inspector came or the building official came by told me they can't put a roof on that's crazy iy people's roofs are leaky they need to be able to fix the roof they're not going to go to apply for a permit echoing what Robin said to you know get we need to come up with a better strategy to help the residents and help the businesses to make it a lot easier for everybody else so thank you for what you're doing and keep it up and let's try to make some positive changes to regrow St P Beach thank you that's all I have mayor just to clarify I did say rebuild and better I definitely did not say bigger um but actually just before it this meeting started I sent the city manager an email requesting if we can put out um some concise guidelines as to what can be done without a permit and then also to help homeowners guide them through the process if they want to self GC pull permits up for themselves rather than if they can't afford to hire a GC they do drywall whatever else um and then maybe in one of the discussions we can also talk about some of the ramifications why we have to go through the specific process and what some of the pitfalls are for example when you look at Ford Meers Beach which is uninsurable right now because they as you put it cut all the red tape Unfortunately they cut all the good red tape out of it and that has lasting in ramifications so when you're looking at it like you said further down the line we have to make sure that we make good decisions today so that we do not have negative and unintended consequences further down the line that are going to you know hurt everybody on the island whether it's a business or homeowner um but you're absolutely right so we will put that that information out so that everyone understands exactly what the process is I think we're going to discuss permitting later also about the additional hours that we have the additional staff that we're bringing on to help expedite the permitting process so that we can move this along as quickly as possible so people can start rebuilding as quickly as possible because that is in that's of you know of one of the very top priorities so thank you all right do we have a motion to approve the consent agenda I make a motion to approve the consent consent agenda for the October 14th uh City commission meeting of St Pete Beach Second City Clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Nikki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries all right first we have action item 4A to authorize the city manest sign an amendment to Renee uh Renee narlock and Associates uh for the employee search firm mayor did you want to move the consent items that did not get pulled first we we approv the sorry haven't gotten a long a long few weeks for everyone I think that was the first consent item that vice mayor request he requested that it go before you the selection of the city manager that was my recollection yes sir City attorney City attorney I make that mistake too do it all the time I need to go so I'm up Mr Mayor yes sir so I was under the impression that as part of the consideration uh that we were asking Renee um I don't know her I'm just using her first name because I can pronounce it easier than her last name uh was to provide us some gu guidance on what the expectation should be uh in respect to possible salary for filling the position that's not the only question I have but um that's the first question I have as it relates to this particular item did we ever get any of that guidance or did we ask because I was once again under the impression that we were going to ask that question to at least get some sense of um what the expectation should be um where we to hire a uh employee on staff City attorney um with the position so given the circumstances we've been under we do not have that information tonight okay uh so my second question is under the circumstances that we're under uh do we still want to consider trying to stand up a uh in-house City attorney and everything that goes with that uh understanding that we're going to have a tremendous amount of uh moving Parts here moving forward uh is that another project that um we we want to try to tackle and I mean I'll be perfectly honest if there's two of you that want to move forward with this I'll support it I'll respect it but I want to ask the question uh you know do we think that you know spending that whatever $24,000 to to vet that situation is um what we want to do or what we should consider to do based on the circumstances and recognizing the fact that we need an experienced hand helping us uh through this difficult period of time so Mr Mayor those were uh the two specific items as it relates to that there was an admin item that I wanted to mention as well but those were the two specific items certainly um so I actually received a phone call from Renee yesterday um i' worked with her previously on the city manager selection process um and her phone call was to express um that she thought in her professional experience it would be challenging to run a dual track search while we're looking for in-house versus a firm um she recommended that we make a decision one way or the other where if we wanted to go look at a firm first do that way if we don't find somebody go the employee route um she felt she said that in her experience um attorneys who were looking to be employed um may find it challenging if they're being compared oneon-one versus a firm with three or four 10 or 100 Associates um I also I think if we have a firm that we feel comfortable with on a temporary basis I I wouldn't be opposed to setting it aside for 30 60 90 days to give us time to catch up with some of the other more pressing needs that we have um I that's those are my thoughts I would I'm I was going to pull the item myself anyways but um just because I I don't I'm prior to to this anyways I didn't I wasn't one that wanted to search for um an attorney staff I'm I'm comfortable um with the route that we we are right now um I did have a question too though even for the assistant city manager um because we do have and I'm trying to remember and um Francis um let us know um your thoughts because I couldn't remember if the problem was that we had done a search and we weren't able to recruit one using in-house um you know HR Director in-house versus using someone on the outside um and that's why we were going this route um because then I would say both if we haven't why not use our in-house to recruit and find someone and not use Rene's firm on for either one so that was just a question yes so I'm requesting assistance and the contract amount for the assistant city manager is typically would be 25,000 so what I'm proposing to the commission is that I do a hybrid where the recruiter does all the heavy lift on the recruitment side sourcing candidates doing all the Outreach all the advertisements and all the pre-screening and then once she completes that she hands me the group of qualified candidates and then I take it from there and do all the internal processes what she did with me I would be now doing that with the ACM candidates so I tried to do a hybrid just because when you're doing an executive recruitment you don't really have she has connections she can do a large swath of Outreach that that provides you the best candidate pool to look at I also think with the pressing needs that we have right now the city manager's time would be better spent why wouldn't say her I would I I'm say director I'm saying letting no but I know you have your background but not you no but I mean the Rene is doing all the finding the candidates vetting the candidates and she has a lot of experience specifically in this in this field and I think for a great job before yeah absolutely if we and I just to give a plug my HR director is amazing she's been great she is absolutely buried with this particular crisis as well just supporting employees that's her main focus right now and and um keeping our Workforce healthy and safe then I I would be good keeping that part of the contract and not um a search for City attorney okay yeah I would be fine with that also okay so then we will proceed with the the assistant city manager search part and we will table the City attorney portion of the contract okay does that sound okay so I would motion then to authorize a city manager to sign the amendment to S Renee narlock and Associates employment search firm agreement to include the search for an assistant city manager I second city clerk commissioner res Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Mar yes commissioner Robinson yes mayor petrilla yes car thank you all right next we have action 4B related to the first one selection of the interim City attorney so we've all had uh the opportunity to individually uh interview the two firms U that we narrow it down to um and I think at this point we could have a discussion just kind of see how where everybody is at and then we do have both firms here represented so if we want additional questions we can pose those to uh to the firms as well I uh um I was very impressed with both firms when I spoke to them um I think we would be in excellent hands either way um and so to be absolutely no help at all to anybody I'm I am totally fine with either one okay mayor could ask could we do something similar um I know we kind of started but similar like how we did before for the um city manager it um because I I have a feeling we're all going to say something very similar um but to kind of rank you know how we did before would that help us narrow down and then talk about what the differences are I mean I know there's a financial difference really is the biggest difference because qualifications both both firms um are were my top two even before um interview that I wanted an interview with um so I don't know if you know if that's what we want to discuss or just kind of rank them or something trying to make it so so you're one in one for both yeah I have some comments on his firm sure okay so uh trash dag Nile I hope I'm pronouncing that right but if I'm not I'm sure they'll get over it um I'm over it too so don't worry so uh Miss Aguero um who is currently our um special uh special magistr uh she wants very much to be our City attorney that really came across to me um she believes she can help the city um she feels she knows our city and I think that came across genuine to me uh so you know I I I I would make that comment about her Robert esel Fielder uh who would be uh probably our City attorney because Mr Guero is not available on Tuesday so unless we were to decide to change our uh meetings he would likely be the uh uh City attorney sitting in the chair at a minimum and I found him very confident and I or or competent and I found him quietly confident uh that's not the same words I used in the interview but um he was a very surprising individual so um I was impressed with him as well uh I was unable to check their references uh as all the references that they provided were local Barrier Islands who are dealing with the same things that we are uh so I didn't even make a call because I just you know I didn't want to disrupt what was going on with those cities uh two more things as it relates to that particular form and or firm and they may want to answer this for us uh if they were to become the City attorney one question that I would have would they uh accept a 30-day notice of of uh the agreement ment or the contract meaning both sides um at will contract uh would they uh be willing to accept that uh and the last question I had and I did call um and I spoke to both firms uh with just a follow-up question that I had for each of them and the one question that I had for trash dagar was uh would they be willing to give us their best pricing because my sense is what they offered was not our best pricing or their best pricing uh and I think that's important because they are um considerably if you if you run the numbers they they would uh over the course of a year likely run out to be considerably higher than the Vos firm uh so I did want to ask that question and I would publicly like to ask that question those two questions of them as well so I don't know if we want to let them answer those two questions before I have my comments on the V for firm or how you want to do that Mr Mayor few I think we'll just if you want to answer those questions we' be happy to hear from you good evening mayor Commissioners um so be quite simple and very direct with you commissioner mahalan yes we would be um amendable to a 30-day termination I think on our our standard contract we have a 30-day ter on there so that's not 30 or 90 I said 90 I believe I apologize I thought you said 30 day no I no I said 90 and I I apologize yeah we would be amendable to a 90-day termination period as well um as for the the rate I believe that you know when and that came up during our interview I believe that for the value of what you're getting from our firm that is the best rate we wouldn't have necessarily put the best rate forward in our RFP we were going to give you the best rate for the value that we Prov provide however uh as you know everything is a negotiation um I did very much uh I'm glad it came across that I did very much want to serve as your City attorney and understanding that it may be um a consideration perhaps to move the meeting date if that were to be something that we could do we could certainly negotiate the rate because you're giving us deference and so we would also give you deference um but that is something that we would maybe be willing to negotiate um and so I think we could do a lower hourly rate U maybe more at 260 an hour that and I apologize I'm old so I don't hear real well but as it relates to the hourly rate yes where will we add on that is there um a better rate than what was offered or is there not so there can be a better rate that's offered but it would be based on necessarily a concession obviously the 280 rate that we gave you is the best rate that we feel is valued for our firm based on the hours of work and the job that's it's going to take to be your interim City attorney that can also be re-evaluated throughout based on what we once we get into the job and we understand what the specific problems are you are were very forthcoming with what your concerns were um what the specific problems are what efficiencies that we can put into it there's always room to lower that and re-evaluate that hourly rate we've done that in many communities in which we're in so that was the best rate that we gave you for the value of the of the product that we're giving you um with that being said we would be willing to do a $260 hourly rate for the concession of moving the meeting nights because we know that might be something that is not a convenience to you so once again you're you're you have lowered your rate to 260 just so if we move it from Tuesdays yeah correct move what sir if we moove our commission dates from Tuesdays I understand so if we get Miss aguo AG aello oh my gosh even say my name so if we agree to move our commission dates in order to accommodate Miss aguo uh we get a 260 rate you get me at a distance we continue our dates on Tuesdays then we get Robert which I don't think that's a bad thing but uh but we're going to pay an extra $20 an hour for Robert right because again to your point we put forth our best our best price when we put forth our RFP yeah you're trying to balance your workload I understand how that works yes okay thank you thank you so much thank you great and you had comments on the Voss firm yes I did um so on the Voss firm uh I called six current and former clients and then the Hurricanes came about and I kind of ran out of the runway on all this uh I had two um municipalities that returned my calls both spoke very highly of the Bose firm but I will say however or or I will say that both of them uh it's been several years since they worked with the firm um but they spoke very highly of the firm uh I would also want to ask the boast firm uh the 90-day notice um whether or not they would accept a 90-day notice contract as opposed to a 60 or a 30 uh and uh I had also o spoken briefly with the firm about a question I had as it related to the city of Naples Florida uh they were the City attorney for the city of Naples Florida uh I could be a little wrong but uh they were the City attorney for approximately two years uh and after that two-year period The Firm submitted a 60-day notice of termination to the city uh and I just wanted clarification on that so I asked that question and I also ask the firm to be prepared to speak to the commission tonight as it related to that so um 90-day notice of termination on either side and the 60-day termination to the city of Naples are the two questions that I personally have for the V firm certainly and I think we should give an opportunity to respond to both of those mayor commissioners good evening uh Wade Vose with the V Law Firm vice mayor thank you very much for those questions the vice mayor and I had a chance to talk about the second question you had there but I'll address the first one first we'd be glad to have 90-day termination we are uh very open uh to any sort of arrangement that would make a local government we represent more comfortable we always operate on the philosophy that anytime we're representing a city or other uh local government we're on the chopping block ever since meeting so uh at least from our perspective for uh whether or not we continue on in that role but to give the city security with regard to a 90-day termination uh we are perfectly fine with that with regard to the city of Naples as we uh had a chance to discuss on the phone and I will just share this with the tape rolling and so on uh we represent local governments all over the State of Florida and so uh we uh do our best not to kiss and tell or tell Tales out of school or anything like this so I can't go into great detail what I can share is that there was an instance and we look back I was uh thinking through I think it was a little closer to three years but it was you know within that that uh time period there there was an instance that arose that uh unfortunately very hotly contested uh political election all right and uh unfortunately despite my office's very best efforts to not uh be an issue in that campaign uh our firm and our representation and quite frankly the good work we were doing for the city council of the city of Naples uh became a political issue or a set of political issues in that campaign and we sat down and looked at it and we thought in the best interest of our client that's where we're looking first uh in the best interests of the work the city of Naples was trying to accomplish we thought it' be best to hand over the Baton and uh so although we really enjoyed our time as City attorney there the best thing in the best interest of the city was to let someone else continue on that work so I hope that helps thank you sir all right thank you city clerk do we have any audience comments no sir okay thank you well I will say I likeed to both firms um they uh was nice having uh one that was a little bit more local but also having one that also had a lot of experience with St Pete Beach as well um I felt uh a little stronger for Voss I think because of maybe knowing St Pete Beach a little bit better and also with their work uh down south in Fort Meyers um also with some of the environmental um issues that you've dealt with as well um my concern would be with the how we are right now with the state of the beaches from you know from end to end from including Clear Water um just trying to be able to choose a firm that's going to be able to give us the most time and not be you know dealing with all the other issues and other towns that they represent um considering we're going to be very focused on what we need to accomplish here and i' that Focus to really be on us so I'd be looking for somebody who can who can really dedicate that you know time and effort with us so I mean having spoken with with both firms um clearly both are highly qualified I think almost unanimously they were our top two choices uh initially um you the work you do at the special magistrate I I do appreciate it I I do watch it occasionally and um I very much appreciate what you do there um I think it's it's a firm but sometimes gentle hand and very fair so I do appreciate that um my recommendation would be based in and impart on a couple different factors we're going to be talking about about Revenue sources here shortly which really ties into what money do we have to spend um I appreciate the offer of concessions to move the commission if we move the commission meetings I'm not sure that that's really viable considering how many staff that we have and how many Commissioners and some of our schedules are adjusted based on you know a long history of having it on Tuesday and every second and fourth Tuesday uh same with the staff and in the city clerk having to be here late in the city manager and so on um and so looking at you know the cost that's that's a huge that's certainly a huge Factor especially as we're looking at you know losing virtually all of our parking Revenue overnight you know uh and additional Revenue sources again we'll be talking about that um I do appreciate uh the experience for example that Ralph has uh in the city of St Pete Beach um I had not to speak with both firms about the specific issues that um I thought were challenges for our city at the moment um and I think we had good discussions with both firms about the direction that they would go in or how they would tackle specific issues um ultimately I you know my feeling was in the way that you know I perceive the responses um well I think both firms would do a good uh good job my recommendation would be to go with the V firm yes Mr Mayor I uh I think we'd be well serve with with both organizations I really do um I would I would never want to shut the door on either of them frankly um but um I agree with what you said and I also um commissioner Robinson um I I I do think that for the exact reason why I was reluctant to call um the references for trash dagnar um I I I think you could possibly be right although they have a relatively deep bench but there's a lot of work to be done um on the west coast of Florida Barrier Islands right now and surely there's going to be plenty of distractions for them not that the other firm wouldn't have some distractions as well but uh they did uh I believe that they did have Fort Myers or for Myers Beach so you know they've they've kind of lived that and I know it's still ongoing but it's not as raar as what we have from Sarasota North right now so um for for a host of reasons I believe I would um support the Vose firm as well but um it pains me a little bit to see somebody is qualified um to to have to say that you know maybe we don't pick them but uh I I hope if things don't work out in the interim basis here that uh you know they're still available to us because I I do meaning trash Diago um I do I do think they're certainly uh well qualified to service um but when you consider all the facts I think I would have to support the V firm as well commissioner winik I think you're the only one hasn't well um my My First Choice was tras um and and I don't think um the Barrier island is an issue um because every Barrier Island in in the State of Florida is going through something including Fort Meers right now um they were all hit um I don't know if anyone saw the videos over there I mean they they got a lot of water um poor Charlotte did many did and we are still in hurricane season so um things could happen I I do think it is good for Barry Islands to be United um so um and we're not talking about using one attorney um that's representing all the cities I believe um misso you know is is going to be here I know the other tras has other attorneys in um now I forgot the cities is it just north of us Treasure Island um Bell B air Bluffs or something they have other attorneys you know specific to them so I don't think we're pulling um anyone out I think sometimes we're sharing the same issues and and it's a good for a firm to be discussing that I don't think there's there's anything um wrong with that um again I mentioned ear the big difference is is the cost but we don't know what could be happening sometimes we might have we've had to do it even with our current City attorney right we we have to sometimes hire out for other things we we don't have full service in everything um so I'd be more wanting to consider what are all the services one is providing versus the other than saying well this one costs less um than the other one because because maybe it will end up costing us a same amount of money um so um anyways that's that's where I'm at with that thank you all right further comments questions well I would make a motion that we select the V firm as the interim City attorney I'll second that motion city clerk if you pleas pleas do a roll call vice mayor mahand yes commissioner marott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki no but yes no so is that a yes or no yeah is that no I'm sorry yes I'm just mayor patella yes motion carries thank you mayor if I may um can we talk for a second about just transition um if we could is I think um if they're prepared to start um I'm prepared to work with them right away on a transition um I think you're going to have to expect some overlap um but they could be officially the City attorney as soon as they send an engagement letter with the terms that were negotiated the 90 days and the flat rate maybe the commission could just authorize the mayor to execute that engagement letter and then with the understanding that I would I would suspect you know even if we gave them the information that we have right now they're going to still have some questions and calls that we'll have to bill for so you look at like maybe a 30-day overlap where we would still be available to provide them with whatever information that's necessary but if the commission feels comfortable giving the mayor uh authorization to sign their engagement um letter or however they phrase it if they're ready to go okay so for the record The Firm said they're ready all three of them did um is there a motion from the commission to authorize the mayor to sign the engagement letter with the Vose firm I'll make a motion to authorize the mayor to sign a letter of Engagement with the Vose Law Firm I'll second city clerk if you please do a roll call commission sorry I'm sorry yes sir so sorry just before you vote just wanted to mention what Mr Dickman mentioned concerning say a 30-day transition period and what have you I think that's very wise you all have a lot of moving Parts uh all the more now uh with uh with what you've been through recently so just wanted to note that before you took that action I think that would be a wise way to proceed thank you thank you okay commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Niki yes ice mayor mahand yes mayor Petrella yes motion carries mayor could ask one question just out of curiosity when we look at agreements um Andrew is this like a standard agreement because obviously you're a City attorney kind of sort of now and now we have a new one but who's are we basing this off of History an agreement that we've had in the past is it similar um is there differences you know most Municipal City attorney agreements engagement letters whatever are very similar um I'd be happy to take a look at it and see if there's anything unusual I doubt there is I mean they we've worked all over the state um if you like you also have a labor and employment attorney um that we could send it to if you like to have um have Miss Flynn look at it as well um she's one of your attorneys as well um but we I can make sure that we put eyes on it but they're generally the same terms um uh so and then you do I looked at their proposal as well and so the terms are set out in their proposal as well and we can attach that as a uh as an exhibit if you like okay thank you all right next we have item 4 C authorizing the city manager to enter in two-year coverage agreement of public risk management of Florida Commissioner Resnik I believe you pulled that item yeah my question um was um the review of the agreement um and I don't know if you've looked it not okay and that's it wasn't sent to my office for review so is that something that we should wait for our current city or our future I don't know who to call who what because we said you're you're it so maybe that'll be the first task is to review our agreement um with the those are together I'm not quite sure how that goes if I think we should be prudent to have it reviewed let's make sure we have time when is our current policy expire I believe it's already expired so we are it expired on September of uh this year and there were no uh major changes to the agreement it was just an extension of and the new rates based on our utilization okay if you all feel it's I mean I don't know if any of you've compared it so it's the same I I didn't what is our termination clause for this do you know I would have to look at that do you have the which you so we still talking about this Mr Mayor yes yes yes I wasn't willing to pull it out of consent for this but I don't use it anyway um so how much of of that insurance policy the 82,000 just a one page m city manager do you know how much of that is for legal insurance and is that 800 per year or that's for both years correct I believe that's that's the only page that's in there I I think it's annual annual it's usually is annual it's just a raid guarantee yeah because it says fiscal year 25 if you look on page 20 see it I think it went up 8% correct so so when you ask it went up yes it did2 yeah 8% so when you ask does it cover legal fees so what happens is we have deductibles on various claims different deductibles for different types of claims if they accept the claim we pay the deductible they pay the fees above that claim and so often times that does require representation right so I guess my question is um so that's an item that it all becomes part of your loss ratio or legal loss ratios uh our our our Master policy went up 850 2,000 or whatever that is within the master policy we have multiple lines of various Insurance coverages general liability etc etc and one of those lines is the legal insurance I'm G to or does that fall that is not the way I understand it so you have like general liability you have so our our legal policy falls under our general general liability under so our general liability um has that kind of tracked with 8% or do we know I'm just curious because I know it seems like we turn a lot of of legal indoor Insurance uh I know often times we have to sometimes you can negotiate out of it uh I'm just trying to understand if if our general liability is being significantly impacted by the amount of times that were're just throwing it over to the wall to the insurance company as opposed to dealing with it internally through usually the City attorney and I apologize we didn't get to talk about this I didn't know it was getting moved consent but since it did uh it was a question in my mind I almost moved it myself yeah so I do not have the trends here at St Pete Beach for the last you know usually I can get Trends on how much we've increased so I can definitely look into that and see yeah and I'm not looking to hold hold passing it up it's just something I to know that typically when the city attorney's office turns the claim over to the uh to the risk management firm that's representing us on that side it's because we couldn't settle it so typically the city attorney's taking the lead to try to settle the claim and when we know it's going to exceed that deductible it's in our best interest to move it into their team and then they assign a special attorney on that particular type of claim okay okay we may talk about this more later offline or whatever but since it was on the table I want it no no no worries if if it helps you at all um I can tell you in the 10 years that I've been here um you know the different types of lawsuits that the city encounters the vast majority of them are covered by PRM um the vast majority there's one case and I think I've mentioned it to you uh which they've rejected and when they do reject a case um then we typically talk to a coverage Council as a separate lawyer specializes in insurance coverage and we try to get them to cover it uh we have one case out of all the other out of all the cases that isn't covered by PRM and I think you that's in part I think why the V Law Firm I'm not going to speak for them made the the bid that they did because they understood that the city had an insurance carrier that would would assign defense Council to uh to you know help the city with its litigation but over a 10-year period there's been very little that they haven't covered and the city did go out and purchase separate cyber liability which is very important um did not go with PRM but they have that um so from my point of view as a City attorney you know they they have been very easy to work with um they typically assign very good lawyers whether it's a a labor dispute or whether it's a you type of litigation uh that requires uh more indepth uh work um they typically have assigned the type of lawyers that have been very easy to work with and they the lawyers that are working on the cases now know the city pretty well I guess the only thing I would say Madam uh city mayor and are moving forward if um whether it's pre approval of the insurance policy um or offline or whatever I personally in the future would like to have a sense of where our loss ratios have been for a fiveyear period just so we can monitor um where we have struggled uh and maybe where we're doing well uh obviously that's um that's in your whe wheelhouse but um I personally I can't speak for the rest of the commission I'd like to have a sense where our loss ratios are and how they you've performed over a period of time because that kind of tells you that's part of the story on how your city is being run yes absolutely so all right thank you okay yeah did that answer both of your questions yep if if we're all we're all good okay um with that um then I'll go ahead and and I'll authorize uh for the city manager to enter into the two-year coverage agreement with public risk management of Florida and the amount of 85251 I'll second city clerk if you please to a roll call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner marott yes mayor patrill yes motion carries thank you next we have item 4D resolution 20249 shared parking agreement commissioner Rik I believe that was yours as well yes um just a couple of questions on this one um one in the summary um it mentions the dollar amount I don't have to look for what page it was but it it mentions the dollar amount of what the rate change is and I know uh later in this meeting we're going to be talking about um our our ordinance um for for parking um and rates um so my thing is it it's just a technical remove it because I think it said 325 I'm trying to look for the page because I can't remember where it was I think it says did you all find that 52 okay um it said specifically 325 but we're going to discuss it it should just be the what the agreement actually says it's the city decides right the um and if I find the page I'll tell you right now but it does say in the agreement already that the city makes that decision on on that on that amount um and then also um the other thing that I wanted to ask because it says shared parking agreement and this particular one it's a lot so it's it's not if you remember and you might not remember CU I don't think you were here um Mr robelli but the the one that we did for the the gym on 75th and you you probably remember I don't think anybody else was was here was um that that was a shared one because we're sharing it with the owner this is an empty lot so um and I can't remember the agreement but I know um in discussions and looking at this uh package too the what the minimum is for um that owner and maybe you have information because we do it already on blind pass and um 75th um you know by by Corey Avenue we already have a lot that we're doing the same thing um so what their minimum is um maybe you know or could it go over that so my understanding is that it is a true 50% cost share so if we collect nothing there is no minimum the city would not be even for our current one right now too okay all right and this this lot owner is the same they they know that yeah the all the Agreements are exactly the same okay and they are they all called shared parking even that empty lot even though we're not sharing anything well we're sharing it because it's a shared Revenue it's all about the revenue okay okay and I do I think when you make the motion if you amend it to just remove any dollar amount and for it to be aligned with applicable uh rate ordinances that are set by the city that would be helpful okay I had the same question in regards to rate why it wasn't with our 450 550 rate that we determined before and then I also had a question if it was really 51 spaces as the report said or 64 is the agreement said and then also uh talks about the parking area being east of the building but it's not really east of the building it's north of the building so there were some errors in that that I think need to be corrected I believe the representative of the app yes of the play St amen for the record good afternoon Mr mayor council members Brian enst 625 Court Street McFarlin Ferguson and McMullen on behalf of the property owner uh you are correct uh council member there were some uh some oversights in this in the Agenda Report uh I can assure you that the document itself the contract is correct uh and Mr Dickman did uh review this contract we did have a meeting via teams with him and Mr Barry there were additional uh owner responsibilities including uh improving the um the gravel uh the shell for the lot uh and different maintenance responsibilities that were added uh so you did have representation in negotiating this uh paragraph five is revenue uh I'm reading directly from it it says the city will be responsible for setting and collecting parking fees During the period uh the the parking spaces are available for public use uh there is no dollar amount in the actual contract so you will have complete control over that the property owner will not be able to have any say whatsoever over that and that's fine with my client I'm I'm trying to remember the the second question you had ma'am um how many spaces oh it's 64 so there is a uh a diagram that's an exhibit to the to the document it's exhibit B conceptual site plan and that document uh is a drawing with 64 spaces there's also a section in the agreement that allows you to add additional spaces uh with mutual consent um so uh it is a vacant lot there there is potentially the possibility I think we did uh do a schematic that showed the minimum lot width the minimum Drive aisles all of the typical things you would see uh with Ingress egress access and and those considerations uh but my client is very flexible uh and is very uh interested in this agreement being approved tonight uh and there uh there other considerations for uh for him to make sure it gets approved tonight so if you have any other additional questions that I can help with I'd be happy to help with that but I don't believe there needs to be any Amendment to the actual contract based on the agenda report because the contract itself is correct thank you sir okay further comments or questions do we have a motion can I ask uh commissioner Robinson because you you mentioned the drawing are you looking on page 61 is that the one that you're seeing because I know we had a prior packet so maybe I don't know there was well there was the 51 spaces in the report and then there was 64 in the drawing so it was a matter of which one is it got you not the drawing also the north the North or the East and it's north of the building not east of the building okay the building sits below it on the South Side so just wanted to clarify that and then I had the same thing you did when you brought it up about the the right okay um so when if we making I mean to make the motion should we say with corrections or no the the agreement is correct the agreement correct it's it's the agenda memo that um had some errors in it um but the attorney's absolutely correct there's no set amount in the agreement it's connected to whatever the city charges and then um the diagram itself shows 6 four spaces um so it's one of the exhibits that are Incorporated in the agreement okay all right so I motion um to approve resolution 2024-the 4E move to authoriz the city managed to enter into a service agreement with BAC Construction Services commissioner R Niki I believe this was yours as well yeah I I had a couple of of questions um let's see and I'm trying to remember what page because I have it printed out and then the page out here but the page that's titled uh bid packages um under scope of work um it mentions in the scope of work um to sweep all all city streets and parking lots per section eight map um one time per month I don't have a copy of the map because on that same page there's missing pages so that page ends with clarification of intent contract documents if necessary comma and then we're off to the next um Agenda Report so I I don't know if it's missing what it looks like and and I asked this question only because I've had so many residents in the past always ask me does our street get sweeped and when I read all city streets then I believe it's all city streets so I'm a little confused as to what what streets are being clean what are not and then also with um the the amount of debris we have right now um and the kind of debris that we have right now um I couldn't find in the agreement or the scope like what happens in a time like this right what what are they responsible for or is there um a stop on that work because of what's going on right now um obviously their purpose is not to put stuff into the water but we we have a lot of stuff out there so um just a question yeah thank you commissioner I can answer both of those so this uh contract I apologize for the missing if there are missing pages in it um I want to address one that this particular contract is different from our prior one and that we have put uh accountability GPS requirements in so that we can get reports from the vendor to prove that they actually did cover all city streets one time per month so that is the that was the prior contract but we did not have the accountability measurement in play it is in play for this one to your second question so as far as the disaster we're dealing with everything we have to do has to go through a very uh intense ensive documentation process through um our County Web EOC and one of the mission requests we have put in is to have um expanded street cleaning due to the debris from the disaster we have requested to have uh five days a week eight hours a day five street sweepers so imagine compared to what we're doing now because of the level of debris we're dealing with to protect the storm drain system that mission request is in play if it doesn't come back to the state and they don't deploy then we have a contract now that we would use our contracted vendor to expand that service and see if they could provide it so that's what we're in process right now of doing we absolutely can start street sweeping as aftermath which is the debris collector right um is moving the debris off and out of the way there are actually some streets we can start to to work on that okay so hopefully that helped so if we were to see that section map it would be the whole city yes okay that's good to know I hope everybody heard that that answers the question to a lot of residents okay well I appreciate the accountability aspect which absolutely for yeah maybe I think there's a reason that we put that in right so was the prior was the prior one required to do all streets or my understanding was well they were they were my understanding is we didn't have the the accountability and Reporting in play see that's kind of one of those miscommunications because I always thought that it was only certain streets that um you know like in the Donar that we are storm water streets right everything runs out to the to the Bay um though we all probably know by now so does every other street so but I always thought that I didn't know it was all street so there was a lot of miscommunication with many residents on that so I appreciate knowing that okay thank you further comments questions on this item so I will um move to authorize a city manager to enter into a service agreement with BAC Construction Services um DBA street sweeping for Street and parking lot sweeping in the amount of $42,000 per year which is 151,00 for contract duration Second City clerky for pleas please through a roll call vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner R niiki yes may petrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have ordinances first item is 5A public hearing to adopt emergency ordinance 2024 d09 ordinance 20249 an emergency ordinance of the city of St Pete Beach Florida amending for 60 days the city's Land Development vment code division 3 administration of the Land Development code section 3.10 vested rights and non-conformities and division 6 supplemental regulations Section 6.14 encroachment of certain specified ancillary residential equipment into required yards providing for codification conflicts severability correction of scrier error construction publication and an effective date that's a mouthful thank you hi Denise Sanderson and director Community Development excuse me may I ask you which of these remotes do I utilize this one thank you so much please forgive the voice coming down from a cold all is well so as you know I was recently appointed to this position uh effective September 29th just days after Hurricane Helen and since that time we've been um incredibly focused and diligent on delivering uh recovery efforts and then of course preparation and now recovery with Milton and I must say that I have been extraordinarily impressed with everyone at the city how hard they've worked um tirelessly as as you all know and uh of course specifically within the community development department you all have such tremendous talented wonderful people that are you know just doing y's work in in what they do every day but I would re be remiss if I did not say that the authority that is provided to them comes from you um it comes from the ordinances that you pass the policies the U special area plans the comprehensive plans all of those things that come from your bench as well um there are County and state regulations and federal regulations as well so we can never be less strict for instance than the Florida building code but we can be more strict and so what we're bringing for you tonight is an emergency ordinance and this is special obviously um the term emergency gives indication of such um this ordinance comes to you and hopefully I do this correctly where am I pointing so sorry help me out Amber oh it's down here thank you thank you so much back wonderful thank you I will get technology figured out so the the authority of this particular ordinance comes from City Charter so City Charter section 3.11 related to emergency ordinances is to meet the uh public emergency affecting Life Health uh property or the public piece commission may adopt one or more emergency ordinances this ordinance however must be passed by super majority so that's four of you um in order to take effect it requires one reading you do not have to comply with public not noing requirements under the emergency provision it is limited in duration for 60 days and we'll talk about what your options are in the next 60 days I have not had the opportunity quite frankly to come up to speed on all of your adopted plans Your Land Development code your Charter and things like that so um I have resident expert here senior planner Brandon Barry who's going to walk me through some of these when I when I trip up or really just handle your the majority of your questions because I'm going to I'm going to punt on those but the purpose of this particular ordinance is to add some clarifying language um it's to clean up a few things and to hopefully simplify many many of the processes that we're going to be experi that we're going to be faced with dealing with as we move through recovery specifically it's to maintain consistency between zoning and flood plane codes codes regarding elevation height for elevated structures is to allow for substantially improved residences with non-conforming non-conforming being key here non-conforming setback to be elevated above the flood plane and to allow for equal change out change outs of existing equipment um some elements um speaking to Land Development code section 3.10 on vested rights and non-conformities this allows non-conforming non-conforming structures to be elevated to the design flood elevation as currently required IT addresses recently adopted elevation requirement differences between Coastal and non- Coastal properties it provides Clarity for non-conforming structures and if elevated allows for reasonable accommodations for required setbacks of non-conforming residential structures apologize for the eror there in formatting so really what this allows us to do well we'll get into that I I don't want to jump ahead so so example here is showing that if it's we recently my understanding is we recently had a request to voluntary voluntarily Elevate above the flood plane so as you can see that upper diagram there is the existing structure it could be it is compliant with required setbacks and it can Elevate as high as 30 ft within the zoning District in which it it it is currently located if the residents were not compliant with required setbacks and what this allows us to do in this emergency ordinance is the home um and it incurred substantial damage then we would be able to raise the the owner would be able to raise that property to the living level um allow the living level to be raised so regardless of height so or 9 ft so you can get a a garage under there so as an example the living level in current code you have a 10-ft ceiling but the living level um has to come down because of height restrictions perhaps and and you might lose three feet depending on where this is located so on and so forth this cleans up some language to to accommodate for that and Brandon will do a much better job of explaining that particular provision um section 6.14 is an important one this allows us to do change outs of like for like equipment without elevating equipment so as you know we have many flood damaged homes think HVAC units the way the code is currently WR written um perhaps we would need to ele if the home does not have to elevate does not meet that substantially damaged requirement where they would need to elevate um they would need to perhaps Elevate that equipment we are going to accommodate that in this emergency ordinance allowing you to Simply put it in the same footprint if you have non-conforming structure non-conforming with setbacks normally you would have to go through a variance process to deal with those setback non-conformities we are getting rid of that variance process and you'll be able to do a like for like change out you can replace that air conditioning unit in the same footprint in which it currently exists even though it's non-conforming continue to be non-conforming okay if it were to be elevated the whole structure would be elevated again as long as you're retaining the footprint you would not have to go through that variance process so that should that should alleviate some challenges out there particularly we have a lot of non-conforming structures in our older neighborhoods so examples shown here this proposed code change would allow that equipment change out to be installed in the same location okay uh the impact so what does this really mean so the changes to the vest rights and non-conformities that first section that I talked about the existing non-conforming structures as it says here um to be elevated to current flood plane requirements rather than those that were established in 2003 allows property owner to retain the living level height when required to elevate above the flood plane it's going to be important residential structure otherwise they'd have to go through a variance process and we're trying to eliminate that on residential structures that do not meet current setbacks to be elevated to current flood plane provided um when substantially improved provided that the structure cannot be reasonably relocated to meet setback requirements um during the elevation process basically what that says is that we're going to be allowing the structure to retain its existing footprint when elevated okay so that's key we showed you sort of a picture of that house that was originally proposed just going straight up we don't have to deal with all those non-conformities that may exist so and then as I said changes to equipment elevation requires permit equal change out in the same location even if that location would not be permitted today we we'd be allowing that no variance so what doesn't this Ordinance do it does not modify any historic structure requirements has nothing to do with historic structures we going to talk about that a future ordinance perhaps if that's the will of the commission um non-conforming structure elevation permissions apply to residences which must always be elevated out of the flood plane when there is substantial damage and that's the 50 the FEMA 50% rule the ordinance does not apply to commercial structures which often can be flood proofed and then the permissions to elevate a non-conforming structure only applies to the structure that's in place today so this is not addressing additions expansions Etc this is only for what exists today so as I said at the start of this this ordinance expires on the 61st day after you pass it and you have some options as we move through the next couple of months so you can we can make these amendments permanent we can come back in 60 days and issue another emergency ordinance while we're still noodling over things or evaluating things or we can just simply allow it to expire so you do have several options and I'm certain we'll be talking about the effectiveness of this as we move through the next 60 days perhaps that's most prudent is to understand you know where is this working not working how can we perhaps address other things within so um with that I will take your easy questions and your complicated ones Mr Barry will address thank you Denise thank you questions I have one question um you mentioned um for um you had in one of your slides for example AC um the the condenser I guess unit yeah um to keep the same footprint but are they required to have to raise it not necessarily only if substantially damaged only if damaged if and they're elevating above the flood plane they would so if they only if they're elevated if they're currently elevated they'd have to continue to be elevated the the the the unit if it's at grade they continue at grade for a like for like change out okay like for like so they don't have to raise it even if they're at at grade okay so it doesn't because you mentioned the FEMA um substantial so if do they have to raise it if it was damaged so that gets into a question that I think was added to discussion about look back how we talk how we calculate the 50% right and again this is a FEMA Rule and i' like to remind commission again we don't make the rules but we are obligated to enforce them we're legally required to enforce them um you all have some decisions to make and we'll we'll talk about kind of where we want to go with future discussions because we're going to have to have a lot of them um and you all are going to be making very very difficult decisions and U we will do our best to bring you everything that we can so that you can make a fully informed decision so to answer that question the the 50% rule an equipment change out doesn't impact that um a roof repair doesn't impact that uh it doesn't go into that calculation but but it does impact if it's AC right AC is part of the 50% if it's a change out it is not a roof repair it is not impact Windows it is not okay all right then we're good so then you don't have to raise it you don't have to raise it now of course with the amount of flooding that we've seen across the island there will be an extraordinary number of of structures that will be deemed substantially damaged and we'll have to comply I I don't see any way around that is the elevating Mechanicals is that a FEMA requirement or is that one of our city ordinances and we're simply waving that city ordinance so it's actually a Florida building code requirement and there's two parts of the Florida building code and they're a little bit in Conflict um one is specific to flood damaged equipment and then the other is specific to residential equipment so residential allows change out um flood damage says you have to elevate different parts of the code the predominant uh thought process of building officials around many counties is that it's a change out and and the way that the code was WR was intended for change out we wanted to make sure that this ordinance aligned with that and allowed for that change out can you help me just or help us just walk through the thought process so having lost an AC unit I intimately aware with what the cost is going to be MH um it was already elevated but it wasn't elevated enough and to elevate it you know above four or five feet uh whatever the number is it was I want say about 10% more it wasn't a huge number and so I'm trying to understand what the thought process is because I mean this is a hardening issue right M so by elevating this where you know if nothing else you're at least saving your Mechanicals I'm trying to understand what the thought process is to wave that requirement so uh well part of it certainly is cost right and how quickly we can get units operating again get them dehumidified and so on and so forth and save save structures that's part of it um you know if if the structure is substantially damaged then this doesn't apply this you'll have to comply with all elevation requirements um but if it is simply a change out part of a repair then we're allowing it it was always going to be allowed what what we're getting rid of is the requirement of variances if it's sitting in the setback so if it's a non-conforming structure with a variance you don't have to go through that variance process we're eliminating substantial amount of time if you will so change outs were allowed once you get into the the flood question then FEMA 5050 rule like some of those things come into play and then the Florida building code those two sections of code that are sort of In conflict with one another depending on how how you view it as I understand it so we wanted to provide a pathway for residents who are simply doing a repair to be able to to move forward with a change out quickly of like for like and then on the first part of the requested ordinance if just so I understand it is if your structure is where it is today and let's say was built in 1954 and since then we've had multiple ordinance changes and now the setbacks let's say back then the setbacks were 10t now the setbacks are 15 ft your non-conforming structure is outside of that 15t setback what you're saying is we're going to wave the requirement to adjust the setback to today's ordinances and allow you just simply either raise it or add a second story on the existing footprint without conforming to the setbacks is that that is correct okay is there but you said to add a second story just to raise it not not you would have to you'd have to eliminate the living space down below right and Second Story would be but not allowing living space below right you right no living space on the ground floor garage and storage only I mean whether you raise the structure whether you take the roof off and add the second floor but the living which brings me to my next question is if you have the height allowance if it's if you have enough room there would they be allowed to do a second and third floor sure so they are allowed to increase the square foot the living area oh well that's a good question Brandon you'll have to jump in I I don't know enough about what's all in the code let's say we have a th square foot footprint when so you're addition so if you if you're raising it right and then so now your first floor you have your Breakaway area then you have your th foot living space on top you're within the height limits and you could put another th000 ft on top of as a third floor is that allowed or are they just simply allowed to move that th square feet to the second floor I'm going to to punt okay yeah that's a great question and and this is already in the code for non-s substantially improved structures this would just expand it to apply to those that have taken on substantial damage or that where the owner voluntarily chooses to elevate the structure to make it compliant they could add on to the structure they could add another story but any addition to the structure needs to comply with the current setbacks this is just to allow the existing living level to be minimally elevated out of the flood plane to make it compliant with the current FEMA codes if they were to add on let's say that the example you gave the setback being 15 today it's the set structures currently set back 10 ft they could Elevate that 10ft portion up but if they were to add a second third living level that would need to be at the 15t setb so they would have to look like this correct yes and okay again I'm in so when you're saying because one of the things you said earlier was having garage space at the bottom at 9 ft right and then you have the second floor which would be the living area would that be at the same footprint it could be elevated in the same footprint yes okay but anything that would be done on the third floor would happen to be within the setbacks correct yes okay any addition even to the second level would need to comply it's only to get the existing living space out of the flood plane that that's the portion that could encroach into the setbacks just the the area that's needed to elevate it out so how much would they have to how much would it have to be elevated well the maximum would be 9 fet just because we don't have any properties where the design flood is higher than 9 ft above grade it would depend on whether they had a garage at the ground level or not not but it would the structure would go up no more than 9 ft within that footprint that it exists in today so as long as they are no more than 9 ft they can pretty much move the exact same footprint up one correct yes okay thank you stay close no I and I I asked this because having spoken with a lot of residents in the last few weeks is you know some of the the options okay what do we do now right do we leave the house as it is and just hope for the best it doesn't happen again do we go up do we raise the whole house do we add a second story so um appreciate that I have a 101 question what is the difference between design flood elevation and Bas flood elevation there there's a legal definition for that so I'd prefer Brandon address that one specifically too because I haven't seen the numbers so the design flood elevation is base flood plus what we call freeboard um and in our case it's one foot so it's an additional factor of safety above the base flood elevation and that's currently required Statewide we have the minimum in place which is one foot um there is a a slight difference between properties in the AE flood zone and in the coastal zones on where that designed flood needs to be for properties in the AE that's mostly interior parts of the city it needs to be at the living level for those in the coastal zones it needs to be at the support for the bottom of the living level so that the Height's just measured slightly differently but it's it's one foot it's one foot above base flood plus one yes okay good to know wasn't sure on that and and so this this emergency ordinance you said it wouldn't allow people to go any higher than that so if somebody was like man if I'm going to go to all the trouble to raise my house and you know what a FEMA change the numbers in 2 years and I'm you know then I'm not going to be above base flood anymore so but but this wouldn't allow them to go any higher than that if if they wanted to go you know base flood plus 2 feet with this ordinance they couldn't do that is that correct then they'd have to conform to AG correct yeah right yeah okay so as long as they stay under that 9 feet correct at 9 ft at 9 ft they can keep their current footprint so at 9 ft so a stand 70s garage which is what most of our houses are was 8 ft yeah so they could go a foot taller and actually fit an SUV in their garage yeah right okay so I've I've had a lot of calls in the last couple of weeks from different state representatives and uh and they've they've cautioned about making some of these changes based on what happened in particularly in Lee County and some of the Cities there where they're no longer insurable in some instances does this have in any possible way come this could this come back on us I think we're very confident because this this is not actually encroaching on the FEMA 50% Rule and that's really where you're going to run into trouble and Mr Dickman if you want to jump in there as well on challenges with with the community rating system the CRS yeah um in my limited non-legal View I don't think this has any issues associated with it but again right now this is as long as you're staying within the Federal Regulations I mean the city can't supersede the Federal Regulations so I I believe this is staying within that yeah I guess the concern is having an extremely bad situation and inadvertently making it worse and so if this doesn't that then that's certainly we're certainly not advising that people stay at you know base flood right right that they stay at their current grade you know if they are substantially damaged we will be enforcing the FEMA 50% rule right you all will have some options there and I understand that there are some communities the rumors about that they may not be enforcing that rule so we'll get into that I'd like to have that be part of a discussion next week because you're going to get a lot of questions about that so I think it's really important that you all that we all understand that we're on the same page what our obligations are what our options are and what those impacts are based on the decisions that you make right so as we step through that you know if if we choose for instance if we were to not enforce the FMA 50% rule we would lose potentially our CRS we get kicked out of the CRS would make us in eligible for lots of federal funding and other things it's more than just it it's an increase a 25% increase to your to your flood insurance premium it's much more than that um so I think it's really important that you understand the pros and cons of the the 50% R because you're going to be getting all the questions right you're going to get the angry phone calls um and and confus people and so I want to make sure that we're all on the you know we're all speaking from this the same Playbook exactly what it is what it means how painful it will be indeed for a lot of folks um but ultimately what the benefit is for the community long term and and of course that's resilience and sustainability of these these structures Mr Mayor we get to yes sir so uh do we have to decide this tonight the emergency ordinance of course you do not have to decide it tonight but we will be getting equipment change outs and other things those are probably coming at us now I I I guess my question um and I think Mr Dickman's extremely competent on this but I I may be wrong but I believe our new inim City attorney has dealt with Lee County is that not am I wrong about that and everything that happened down there I'm sorry uh and some of the FEMA problems that they ran into down there I mean they're coming online to work with Mr Dickman soon um I I think that it's you know if we're feeling a little squeamish about this maybe we should give it enough time that they can have some conversations with Mr Dickman maybe or to you know maybe have a better sense that we're you know not stepping in it here as it relates to FEMA and and creating some unintended consequences uh I'm just throwing that out there just uh because I'm not getting warm and fuzzy from most of us here and I'm not getting warm and fuzzy from uh I'm sorry I don't know your name yet I'm not good with names n Sanderson that's quite all right but uh I'm just thr that out there for get people's opinion on it can I ask a question I don't I don't necessarily feel squeamish about this because um I know people are trying to make a lot of decisions right now and in anything people are doing things that maybe they shouldn't be doing right now um but I guess my question would be to the mayor is when when you received that call What specifically were they talking about so that we know we're not running into that issue did they do something similar to what's being proposed right now that they they said now hey we regret that we did that or or was it something else because I think more of the issue would be that people are not meeting the FEMA um rule um and and I think what we're trying to do is help people right like you mentioned earlier get a UAC unit out so you can cool your your home and prevent molding um and and still be within that 50% rule um so again I just want to know what maybe some of these officials may have mentioned um so that we know what we should be worried about so specifically they they gave examples of cities where I think in every single circumstance they ran a file of female and so whether they didn't enforce the 50% rule or whether they you know reduced the amount of time you know um so they were just they're cautioning specifically to make sure that we don't do anything to impact our insurance rating or to run a foul of FEMA to where we you know so much of what is being done right now trash is that's a female reimbursement a lot of the other things and so um we don't want to be in a position where we cannot get insurance or insurance rates are so incredibly high that no one can ever sell a house or buy a house here um we don't want to run into issues where we can't get reimbursed for a things um I I do see this as um and I actually appreciate seeing this I see it as a way of giving people the opportunity to harden their properties while at the same time making it easier and less expensive for them to do so um and as long as you know Mr deckman doesn't feel we're running a foul of anything not only that but we do have another commission meeting next week so we could I'm I'm more inclined to move forward with it today than not move with just because of the amount we got three 4,000 homes right now that are just we need to allot them move forward um but if something comes up in the next week we could resend this ordinance on Tuesday correct yeah and I will tell you vice mayor you're correct the V CL firm has been at Fort Meers beach in Lee County uh the unthinkable has happened to that City in the last couple of years and I'm sure they've got great ideas um I'd been happy to listen to them now I mean I don't have a you go into this what whatsoever but um I'm sure that city has gone through this quite a bit are you folks willing toine on that [Laughter] tonight C can I ask a clarifying question of Denise real quick first so um just so I understand one one section of this so so I mean my feeling about this is that that I think it would be very difficult for somebody in the next 60 days to come up with a plan and submit for a building permit to to raise their house um it it's certainly possible I I hope that people are getting things done that quickly that would be beyond my wildest dreams of fantastic that we would start rebuilding at that pace but I think the main thing that that you all are thinking this is going to affect immediately is is like for like replacement of AC units and it's the elimination of people having to a variance for a setback is the big chunk of this is that correct that's correct in fact you know when we had talked about having a commission meeting last week that was what this ordinance was limited to was change outs and then we decided we had a little bit of extra time and we we put this in with it y we could break those back out again if you wish for us to do so but yes to your question immediately it's the equipment change outs the the other is going to require an engineer yeah so on and so forth insurance payments all of those things uh and of course contractors getting those lined up so that's a much longer process to consider elevating a home y all right thank you I'm I'm very comfortable with this emergency ordinance so yeah can we break that out tonight I just want to one of the reasons we're here so proactively is as soon as we start messaging people are going to get confused if four weeks down the road we say oh no now we changed it so you don't need a setback so this this just signals to the community what should you plan for now will we have engineering designs in four weeks no but everyone show we open today yeah incrementally every day we're going to have more people and so as soon we need to Signal the community I think from a policy perspective to help them plan so the longer you wait we might tell someone tomorrow sorry you have to go build your house with 10 foot setep backs 15 foot instead of 10 they go hire design engineer and then four weeks later you make a decision and say never mind you can just go straight up so that's why we expedited it we can certainly bring it back but I'm just cautioning you that we could inadvertently if you generally support the hardening aspect of this proposal that it gives us an opportunity to Signal where where the commission is on on this particular policy decision absolutely can can I ask before I know you guys are going to app something but um for Brandon just because the house that you showed is very familiar to me so I don't know if it's an existing one right now but but I think I recognize the home um because I know a particular resident who's been trying to raise their home for quite some time in permitting um through the city um what's the hold back because I know you know their tears is I had it ready to go and it didn't go up so they flooded um what was the hold back like why why couldn't you know what's currently right now not allowing someone was it because of the noncon not being in the setback you know what what was the hold up on the homes I believe initially it had to do with a staircase encroachment it's been a while since I looked at it I don't know if there was anything on the building side um that was the zoning hold up on it truthfully I don't know if the status of it right now but you're waiting yeah okay but this would help them wouldn't it um no because they're compliant with the setbacks whatever the holdup would have been was not anything to do with the existing structure there was a staircase coming off the front that I believe was too far into the setback this would not affect that um this is solely for structures that don't comply with the setbacks currently if they're elevated and they're substantially improved they have to go through a variance process or have to take down part of their home this would be an option for them to elevate in place no more than 9 ft just for the existing living space that they have currently that that's really the the major effect of this okay thank you so I don't think we're in a position to give you an opinion on the Fly um but we definitely will look at it I think what you have is the intersection of various sections of your code your non-conformity code um your building code as well as your FEMA regulations so what I'm thinking is happening is that you're um providing more flexibility and assistance to try to open up your code but we do have to marry that to the other two codes I would just Echo what Nancy just said I there are a lot of moving Parts in this uh otherwise very short bit here could turn out to be perfectly fine but we want to move through all the parts because may as you indicated um you know what's written in the FEMA regs even becomes wild and crazy when you hear it applied in different ways so uh we're not inclined this is the first time we've seen it uh just in these last many minutes and we want to look at all the moving parts that's not imputing any of it all as I said it may be totally fine we can come back to you say yeah we work through it with staff and so on it looks great but we're not in a place to be able to tell you Yep looks looks uh fantastic just this very second thank you sir Mr Vose how much time would you need would you know in seven days would you be able to make a um recommendation or not a recommendation but offer an opinion in seven days yeah we'd be able to we'd be able to take a look at it for your meeting for next week be able to come back uh and part of of what we want to be able to do we can look at you know what we see on the page here but quite frankly often times when you're dealing with a code that has a lot of moving Parts is want to walk through the logic with staff uh and with Mr Dickman his having looked at and so on make sure we're in the same place with it but I think we're going to be able to do that by then if it comes to be by next week we identify some issues that need to be flesh out a little bit more we may have to that may be what we have to report but our goal would be able to come back and if the if the policy direction of the commission is make this happen so long as we're not getting ourselves sideways with FEMA then uh our hope would be able to be able to come back to you and say either yeah this looks good or we've got some tweaks or if some further tweaks are necessary give you a very brief timeline to make that happen thank you sir I like being decisive but this would be a big one this would be a big one to get wrong right yeah long term for many many residents and but I understand why people want decisive Direction but this isn't my wheelhouse I've been listening to you folks as much as anything but uh I I don't know I I personally think a a week might be worth taking in this particular situation particularly since we have the benefit of two intelligent law firms uh to to look at it and make make a uh I keep wanting to say recommendation which is incorrect uh offer an opinion uh for us to maybe feel better about the decision we're getting ready to make but that's just me and that may not be what a lot of people want to hear but um I'd love to be able to move on but I I'm a little uneasy about it myself I would agree with you commissioner and and I guess I would ask Miss robustelli it would that would it be better for that you know because you mentioned messaging we don't want to give the wrong message either um and then come back later next week from our City attorney saying no we are messing up FEMA it does a is a week help the staff to help the residents if we want the commission to be comfortable so if you need a week we will message to residents on these particular items that the commission's considering some alternatives on next Tuesday and so because the variance process takes so long we would probably just ask them can you come back next week once we know because if you remove this variance process you're going to shorten the the time they need to to replace right or to design because right now with if we if we do not pass this ordinance tonight that means if somebody comes in tomorrow who had a minimally damaged house that clearly is not going to encroach on the FEMA 50% rule they they have not they don't have anything that they need to do besides replace their air conditioning where their air conditioning sits right now is does not conform to current setbacks and so if that person comes in tomorrow and says I have an AC contractor ready to go and I want to get my AC working because this is ridiculous the answer tomorrow is going to be you can wait hopefully just a week if the commission can get it together to make a decision you can apply for a variance which can take 3 to 7 months or you can move your AC to comply with current setbacks so tomorrow that's what we'll be telling people well we we do have the option of breaking it out and it seems like unless I'm reading the room wrong most everyone feels comfortable with the AC Mechanicals part of it so we could break that out you know move forward with that and then wait on the second opinion for the rest of it correct and that you that was correct I mean but then address Mrs mer how do you feel about doing it that way yeah that would be fine yeah yeah because I again moving as quickly as possible with the AC's that yep okay do have public comments do we have any audience comments certainly Alex Bryant great if you'll please state your name and address for the record uh good evening mayor and members of the commission my name is Alec Bryant my address is 999 87th Street um I'm a public policy and administration student at St Petersburg College and I would like to thank you all for being here this evening um before I begin I would also like to thank senior planner Brandon Barry he's been a terrific person to work with and a great asset to your organization I am here to speak in support on of the approval of ordinance 20249 this ordinance aims to provide Clarity for incili uh residential equipment changes along with provide clarification in language to the elevation of non-conforming structures where setback issues may have previously conflicted with uh the potential to elevate this is the great use of the ability to adopt emergency ordinances in response to the recent uh natural disasters experienced by your locality uh residents are certainly in need of options when trying to decide their next steps post storm and I believe this ordinance is a step in the right direction the language of this ordinance helps to promote sustainability through continued utilization of structures through elevation and highlights your organization's resiliency and ability to adapt with the needs of the community I recommend approval of 2024 -9 thank you for your time and consideration thank you you George Smith if you'll please state your name and address for the record good evening my name is uh George Smith I'm at 5940 bimy way um the I I just came in here tonight and under the same circumstance that we're dealing with here there's another problem and that is that any of these houses uh are deemed to not be able to be rebuilt and have to be replaced there is a uh zoning ordinance I believe that says the minimum lot size is approximately I I don't know the specific but on 59th I'm aware of at least 20 lots that don't meet the minimum lot size if I'm not mistaken that's a city issue and could be taken care of here as well but I I had a conversation with Brandon by email back when I bought my house 5 years ago and he assured me that you know these houses were grandfathered in but at this point we should probably it's going to affect a lot of people we should probably codify this and uh Brandon are you familiar with what I'm speaking of so I don't know if it would be part of this motion or if it would be a separate motion but I ask that you address that one at the same time thank you thank you so in in those situations if the the lot let's say is smaller than the required size or the minimum size of a lot lot if they're simply going up right with if this ordinance is adopted so neither it's next commission meeting would that be impacted so I'm assuming it wouldn't fit the setbacks because it's a lot smaller than required mhm so would this also Encompass those lots so the the issue that was just brought up that typically comes up um and any lot prior to I believe it's 1972 that had a residence on it that was platted is allowed to rebuild it doesn't matter what the size was if it was platted as a residential lot it can remain uh so that would include most Lots in the city um that typically becomes an issue when someone's looking to subdivide a lot or um split a lot that maybe had been used as full platted lot and then a portion of a platted lot that could be an issue in those cases but in terms of rebuilding unplatted residential lots that created prior to 1972 it's it's typically never a problem so it's prior to 1972 correct any anything before that is grandfathered on size after that it would be based on there might be specific actions that were taken for that lot but that's a city-wide blanket policy 1972 okay because I believe that the lots that Mr Smith is referencing on 59th are actually all in the from the 50s yes okay thank you okay do we have a motion so before we make a motion just so I'm clear we're going to motion that um any like AC type units maybe issue um emergency permits but we're going to exclude everything else in order to give the attorneys an opportunity to offer opinion on the resolution or the ordinance I should say so the ordinance had two sections section one was the setbacks for non-conforming structures and then section two was the Mechanicals and an equipment so we could just make a motion to adopt the ordinance and only part two and then defer part one as a separate ordinance for review next understand I've got uh I've got the old copy here so the second hurricane made it so I couldn't get a fresh copy but yes yeah sorry for the confusion okay okay I'll motion um to approve to adopt emergency Ordinance 2024-the do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor patella yes motion carries thank you next we have 5B public hearing to adopt ordinance 2024 d06 parking meter and Wastewater fees city clerk ordinance 20246 an ordinance of the city of St Pete Beach Florida amending appendix a of the city's code of ordinances implementing an hourly public parking increase implementing a Wastewater fee increase providing for codification conflict severability correction of scribers err construction publication and an effective date thank you great so this is the second reading of the Wastewater and parking fee ordinance for the increase and the first reading uh from the first reading to the second reading there is a change based on your September 23rd meeting where you all recommended we increase that fee for parking to $4.50 cents and $5.50 on weekend and Wastewater stayed the same so this is just the second reading with that change from the first reading that increases those fees obviously from the from the agenda memo we're not going to yield the same projected Revenue increases due to the shut uh shutting temporary shutting down of parking um but we're following your recommendation on that increase of fee from 4 to 450 and 550 for weekend and weekday parking I'll address any questions if you have them thank you Commissioners questions comments any public comments okay is there a motion I move that we adopt ordinance 20246 parking meter and Wastewater fees I second city clerk if you'll please through a vot call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes ice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes may petrilla yes motion carries thank you thanks next we have items for discussion the first one the city manager a post disaster operations plan thank you mayor Denise Anderson's going to give an overview of additional planning her team has been doing and what you can expect and we wanted some direction and guidance on how we're approaching and any ideas you may have yes please thank you Denise Sanderson interim community development director so this um post disaster operations plan um this is a itive today through November 2nd and then we'll talk about kind of what we do from there so the objectives of this plan is to to ensure that we're providing exceptional timely services to Residents and businesses as we move through recovery for both hurricanes Helen and Milton and to implement those specific tactics that preserve and protect public health safety and Ware so the approach that we're taking is to expand hours of operations and to increase Staffing to engage and inform residents and businesses to prioritize and expedite permitting where we can and to collect and Report data so you all know how we're performing and how the and the public can see how we're performing and then to evaluate and adjust and and come to you with perhaps you know tweaks here and there as we move through recovery because there will be several phases so the permit desk um as proposed is running 8 to 4:30 Monday through Saturday currently runs 8 to 3:30 with active desk hours staff of course works until till 4:30 but this would be uh desk operations until 4:30 mobile permitting um delay with Amazon on a printer is now expected I think on Wednesday so we weren't able to implement that today but we should be able to by the end of the week we'll have to configure that printer for for Mobile use and we'll be out there permitting 7 days a week code enforcement 7 days a week as always with some expanded hours in there and then building inspections from 8 to 4 Monday through Saturday this represents a 62% increase in operating hours very very significant um and is representative of the commitment we have to to get and help people through recovery um increase of Staffing so these are temporary placements um we have a reassignment of four employees uh that will be rotating throughout uh the department to assist us with some of these administrative tasks take phone calls identify the FAQ so that we can begin to make sure that we're addressing those on our website expand uh some of those things um so they're documenting all of that um we are moving two current part-time code enforcement employees to fulltime status on a temporary basis they they will not be eligible for overtime nor will the reassigned employees mentioned and then the external resources and this is really key and quite honestly very difficult so the external resources we have made the request through weboc um I have a soft commitment for three plans examiners to begin next Monday I haven't had that confirmed I did get a a phone call just before walking in here this evening actually on three Code Enforcement Officers looks like we'll be able to get those perhaps through mutual Aid I have not been able to obtain any confirmations on permit technicians or building inspectors and of course that's very challenging and everyone around the state and throughout the southeast are going to be looking for those as well so this is a a an extraordinary challenge I understand but we continue to push on trying to get these resources what's important here is if we get all of these resources then we're looking at an 86% increase in contact hours and the people that are engaged in this process if we don't get these external resources then I can only deliver a 17% increase so it's a big lift and of course if we don't get these external resources then it won't make sense to have all those operating hours so we'll be pulling back those hours so that those are the kinds of things we'll have to evaluate and adjust as we move forward when it comes to engaging and informing residents and businesses certainly social media and website um working with Mark a little bit we'll be coming up with a plan to really begin to push some of these things U particularly the FAQs out there code enforcement their focus is is primarily on identifying those unlicensed contractors into issues issue warnings and citations we don't want unfair illegal uh practices here taking advantage of of residents who may be ill informed so on and so forth for instance things like a resident applying for a permit on behalf of a contractor then makes that Resident liable for all the contractor's work things like that that's important for residents to know we want no one taken advantage of um notifying residents and businesses a work that does require a permit and then educating residents and businesses as I said of those risks and liabilities and then finally the administrative support as I mentioned is the the the phone calls and FAQ so really um being able to answer that phone all the time when somebody calls in so that it's not rolling to other desks is our primary objective there so I wanted to address work that does not require a permit a lot of questions about this already it's at the top of the faq's list right right so very simply it is the removal of things typically does not require a permit you can remove drywall insulation carpet cabinets flooring those things it's when you want to install them again that largely will require a permit generally speaking you don't we don't require a permit for flooring so carpet if you're replacing carpet or tile or um you know the the laminate flooring you can do those things without permit that's one of the few things that you can reinstall just about everything else requires a permit including drywall including Cabinetry wiring Etc uh temporary use of tarps uh to prevent further water intrusion of course you can do those we've been Distributing those around the city as you know asphalt roof shingle generally speaking 100 square foot can be replaced without permit if you have damage to the roof structure itself to the sheathing or the water barrier underneath then that does require a permit unfortunately and then rep repair of minor water leaks uh you know you had a busted pipe or something under your sink those things do not require a permit what we plan to do to expedite um and prioritize permitting we've added more things to the one-day review this does not mean that it will necessarily take one day review that's a code that it gets in in our eyework system we are Staffing that desk with the building official um to be able to expedite things some things require the building official to verify the materials to to side off on the materials being used those kinds of things so certainly our goal is to provide over-the-counter permits or same day permits can't promise you that that's always going to be um what we're able to achieve but that is what we're attempting to do and but several things here are really meant to stabilize provide temporary housing and and to get people moving on their repair so stabilization includes those roof repairs and Replacements the demolition of structures um the replacement of Windows and Doors and garage doors the temporary housing we have a temporary shelter permit yes you can't put campers and RV on your property so long as it's fully on your property you can apply for that and it can be on your property throughout the entire period of reconstruction and repair until 7 days after certificate of occupancy is issued on the on the home um so very long placement of temporary housing on your own property repairs so um we're prioritizing of course electrical repairs water heaters mechanical equal change out those kinds of things to help expedite um people to be able to return to some measure of normaly or to be able to preserve their home from further damage what we are also and I'm so I'm footnoting it here is we're prioritizing damaged properties so not the regular stuff doesn't mean we're not going to process those other things but we are going to prioritize those properties that we know to be damaged and then we have a list of technical review prop um uh permitting that we're going to be Expediting as well and those are those gets in that gets into the renovations component right so that's replacement of drywall things like that now keeping in mind electrical and insulation those are the things that require inspection which is why permit is required this which is why you can't just start hanging drywall again because we have to inspect so those things again are required by Florida building code um and they they do require um technical review and because the FEMA 50% rule is likely what we're going to be incurring we're going to have to be looking at um the calculations taking into consideration the look back period that we have on the books currently and then seaw walls and docks some of those have been damaged out there we're having erosion already of properties because of damage seaw walls and the like and so of course we're Expediting those too and again um these are prioritized for damaged properties as we move on to data and Reporting so we're going to be looking at we're gonna be um uh measuring our permit applications by type including our inperson and electronic um you know remote submitt permits issued by type including our mobile permitting maybe we move that to a pop-up permitting Center down a warm Webster as a as an example that may be something we we do instead inspections by type and then technical reviews permitting inquiries things like that and then the average days for approval so you'll know how quickly we are moving through this how how quickly how effective are we at Expediting these and what challenges perhaps are we facing so it's really important to me that you all have all of the information because you're going to be dealing with all the questions out there in the public you know it just doesn't feel like they're moving fast enough it doesn't feel like you know um I'm I'm in the queue but I don't know when I'm going to be reviewed I I want to be able to provide you that data so that you can speak from a a place of information and and really to just to help you out with those questions that are inevitably going to be coming your way and then of course as I said we're going to evaluate and adjust so this is a three a 3-we period it was intended to be a 4-week um we staved it off a week because of Milton of course we kept it to 112 because that's what I've currently got my staff the staff and Community Development Department that's what their schedule is currently planned for so we kept it at that 11 to deadline in talking with um Fort Meers not Fort Meers Beach but City of Fort Meers we reached out to them to try to learn some of the best practices words of caution things like that and what they did share with us is it was about a month after their event after Egan before they really saw the great influx of of permit applications that's you know you've got insurance payouts um people are just trying to figure out what they need to do getting those contractors lined up Etc so we did see people of course today but we're anticipating the big push is going to be starting in November post event and then of course adjust you know the the the team um it's a lot and as we make changes to code they're going to have to make changes to their approval processes and the like it's a heavy lift I'm very concerned about staff burnout um a lot of pressure is going to be placed on them uh you know I expect the quum from those that that show up at the desk of course and um we will do our absolute best to deliver the highest quality and most expeditious service that we can but we have to be mindful that these are people too some of whom have lost their homes as well and are going through this process themselves so I would just simply say to the public I we understand certainly we understand the Need for Speed on this of course we do um these are very real issues and everybody is feeling it mentally emotionally physically financially so um we will do all that we can to try to get people through this process as best we can and be happy to take any questions thank you Denise yes sir so my fourth item actually has to do with permitting uh that wasn't addressed uh I just received this email coming in this evening so I haven't had a lot of time to digest it but uh it seems to make sense to me there's a lot of existing permits out there m that are starting to time out and the contractors obviously are running out of resources and the ability to service you know all their customers or whatever yeah so uh this particular Resident was concerned that two things one shouldn't they have the ability to be granted some type of an automatic extension and secondarily should the $50 fee be waved now I don't want to spend all night talking about whether we should wave the $50 fee for the extenstion or not I think it should be a consideration but I'm most concerned you know without a lot of time to digest this but it seems like some type of easy automatic extension on existing permits maybe ought to be part of the process here your thoughts so we received information just a little while ago late this afternoon and I I believe it was an executive order that came down so they will be automatically extended for the duration of the emergency for what period of time do you know duration of declared emergency okay okay and what about the $50 fee you I have to look into it I don't recall if it was addressed in the executive order in any way do you I recall it was that they would not have to pay another fee for that extension was an automatic waiver and that was that was a state that was a state executive order okay very good we can for that communication out to to you all yeah that would be very helpful that way um I don't have to read my chicken scratch here thank you I have a question for you um the for for for owners of residential property that they live in an owner can you know again if somebody has minimal damage and they're just replacing a little bit of drywall they can pull their own permit do the work have it inspected um but if you if you own property that you don't live in or you own property that's a business only a contractor can pull that permit that's correct is is do do we have any ability to have any flexibility on that in a Time When contractors are going to be very hard to come by for very small projects you'd have to forgive me I I would need to talk with the building official about that I presume that Florida building code is driving that and therefore I don't know that we have much flexibility but that would be a question I would need to to ask of the building official okay if you don't mind me following up yeah no that would be fantastic yeah there's also a limit on Drive wall just like there's with roof if it's under certain square footage it doesn't require permit if my understanding is correct is that true that I don't know I'm sorry okay find out if if I remember and we we clarify but just as we looked in the on the roof if it's under 100 squ Square F feet mhm it was a small number okay so I I I wouldn't count on it too much I will look into it yeah I mean I think it also applies you know I know a lot of a lot of businesses have you know like you know businesses that are close together have small sections of fence that blew down and so for any business owner or or owner of a rental property that just had a fence that blew down you know we're all of us business owners are going to be going oh my gosh how are we going to find a contractor who's going to build me six feet of fence you know that might not happen for three years I will look thank you any further questions comments for Denise thank you very much thank you so much okay commissioner moholland you are up next the revenue sources yes um Mr Mayor before we get to that maybe this may these made their way into consent and I didn't catch it but uh the PTO those are items fngg okay com we're going to get to those yes sir uh I had uh spoken previously to the city manager uh about lobbyist um and obviously as a result of our recent events here we need to be searching for any outside Revenue we can possibly get I know we're going to fix all the inside Revenue this coming budget season hopefully uh but outside Revenue has even greater priority to us at this point uh and my my question on lobbyists we have a lobbying firm and previous to the storms I had not concerns I just wanted to understand what they were doing for us and how they were producing what type of results we were getting so I I I guess I would fall that on now to the city manager you know because we can't wait till whenever we get to it now it's important do is there any benefit in us getting with our lobbyist or some of us getting with our lobbyists or having them come in because they can help us find more of that outside funding that may now be available that wasn't even available before um I I just you know something I wanted to throw out there and I wanted to see if you had any thoughts on that and you know or whether it's a waste of time yes thank you commissioner so we do have a lobbyist and the plan prior to the storm was to bring them in to help work on a policy discussion with the commission to set your legislative agenda I still think there's value in that while FEMA is a whole beast in itself of recovery of funds there are there will inevitably be a slew of grants that start to flow out of the legislature after they have a chance to digest this and um so we will I'm still planning to bring the lobbyist uh I think I was going to try to get them here next meeting but we're a little bit delayed but I'm hoping for November that we can have a broader discussion um you'll have a better picture from us on what damages we have Citywide the damage assessments will all be complete and filed but also um the environmental impacts uh you know I've had comments about our endangered species on the beach restoration of the coastline um continue undergrounding on sustainability I think all of those are going to be on the table and not necessarily related to FEMA so absolutely and I'm I will plan on um having them come in um I think in November if that works for the commission right I I I certainly would like to see it we also have a dedicated uh Grand wrer correct or is somebody pursuing all these Grant funds and reimbursements so the grant dedic we do not have a dedicated reimbursement somebody pursuing the reimbursement we have a dedicated person overseeing FEMA now yeah contracted with the finance department that is going to be overseeing all of the FEMA but grants in general we don't have a a full-time grant writer the grants come from the various department or the requests come from the various departments I believe in coordination with our lobbyist group who do help us connect us with the correct state or county offices that we need to to prepare those requests just a question because when you mentioned infrastructure um and President Biden you know was was here and he mentioned and I don't know if any of you remember the millions that he talked about that was going back towards um I don't know if he said FPL Duke Energy and so forth for hardening infrastructure is that something that we should I mean I guess the lobbyist or to get ahead of that I mean this is new money is what I understood from him speaking that's definitely one of the things we'll want to talk with our team about and then um I'll also be having a discussion because I don't know if we particularly have a federal lobbyist and that maybe become a very important key um of expansion or ensuring that our current lobbyists who I think was primarily focus on state that we possibly expand into the federal space and I'm I'm looking at that Avenue as well and the benefits to that okay thank you yeah that was the Secretary of Energy she mentioned a little over 600 million allocated for that like she's saying if it's Federal and we're not really looking at that then no absolutely no no we we should look at every opportunity absolutely yeah okay commissioner mohal in your up sewer system at least you bring in all the small items yeah yeah so a a couple things on the SE system um obvious I know we all know everybody's losing their mind over the sewer system uh and longterm I'm not really sure is probably a little premature to talk longterm on the sewer system but if if anybody the city manager or anybody else wants to talk about it I'm certainly willing to listen uh but uh I I do have a question in the short term or in the immediate impact um time when we have one of these events and this isn't the first time we've had one of these events obviously these are the worst but I seem to recall that um previously and it may have been back uh Mr Dickman you may have been I'm assuming you were here at this time but when we were having the sewer moratorium and the like uh I seem to recall that we had somebody that uh during these events would actually pump and transfer some of our sewer out because we didn't have the capacity and I think that may have been what happened today I don't know I haven't haven't been read in on on the details of all that but uh do we no longer have a contract with anybody to remove sewage if if we can't pump it out anymore but for them to tank it basically and move it that way I don't know the answer to that I'm not sure many people do but I'm hoping somebody here has those two answers is it is it something that we've done in the past is it something that maybe we need to consider getting a contract to have that done again or maybe we have the contract I don't know the answer so so I can speak to the fact that we did not have a contract because we don't have a capacity issue we have an equipment issue so I I actually could I make a statement for the record from our city engineer because I think it's important for the community to understand exactly what happened and kind of clear up misinformation so um St Pete Beach sanitary sewer system includes 21 lift station facilities that move Wastewater to the treatment plant in the city of St Petersburg all waste water collected in St Pete Beach flows to master lift station one which is at the end of bokaa before it is moved off the island to St Petersburg treatment plant below outlines the recent storm impacts that affected the operational ability of the St Pete be Beach sanitary sewer system first hurricane Helen the control panels including electrical and Communications equipment at eight lift stations were inundated from the storm surge the flood damage rendered these lift stations inoperable these are the type of damage that will be FEMA reimbursable they were fully operable before the storm bypass pump stations were installed at these eight lift stations to ret restore the system wide operation so that took us a few days to get the bypass pumps delivered then hurricane Milton came along utility power was lost at all 21 lift stations from the high winds utility power was restored to seven of the lift stations after the storm conditions subsided the backup generator for master lift station one was damaged the generator was repaired on October 12th the bypass pump systems were installed at the eight lift stations impacted by Hurricane Helen to restore operation of those facilities the bypass pumps were sourced through pellis County Web EOC and provided by the state an additional list station had control panel damage from Milton we are currently this was today or yesterday they were installing a bypass pump system at this lift station and anticipated it would be operational that same day a total of nine lift stations had to be operating with bypass pump St systems portable standby generators were requested from pelis County EOC and sourced by the state to power the remaining five lift stations that did not have utility power so in summary at the time that we were still in oper operational we only had seven lift stations that had utility power five lift stations were on backup generator power and nine lift stations had bypass pump systems one of which um was in the process of being installed so bottom line we had equipment damaged from water that was operational before and had capacity and then when you have no power you have to have generators brought in and we didn't need generators for the first storm because the power came up quickly and then the second storm came and took out the power while we were trying to and we had to remove our bypass pumps after Helen so they wouldn't get damaged during milon so this wasn't a capacity problem Pump Station one has been on the docket that is A6 million project to repair it's at its end of life and that basically it was so fragile that then that cascaded into massive electrical and um and U lift station problems at that that station so we are in a Band-Aid situation at the moment because we still have nine lift stations that we have to repair and then Pump Station One Construction still has to happen and that'll stay on bypass power and lift station capacity while we do the construction which that's I think is about an 18mth construction project so capacity has never been an issue like it previously was so that's what the first project fixed capacity but we still had infrastructure that needs to get it off the island and then so and we we don't probably need to talk about this tonight but you've seen a lot of the emails I've seen I know probably everybody else has too but you had mentioned that FEMA will cover some of our um Replacements uh can we replace in a better way more elevated and the like and I would assume we could use whatever Fe FEMA gives us but there'll be more cost to the city if we create a betterment would that not be correct I would want to close that to the engineers because I know there's a lot of Engineering in the way they where they place from just gravity feed electricity so that that's out of my um yeah and I you know I i' hope that somebody might have been available tonight but I'm sorry about that no that's that's fine I I just didn't want to put you on the spot no no that's okay I think there'll be some value in a full presentation on sort of post storm what we experience just infrastructure wise so that the community understands even at some point how we're going to replace it and what the priorities are going to be right all right thank you absolutely that's all the questions Mr Mayor I had as it related to the sewer system thank you sir all right another small item debris pickup commissioner moland so we still have a lot of debris uh it's you know we we had a program in place and then the National Guard came in before this second hurricane arrived uh are I know we still have the six trucks I believe the aftermath trucks uh is there any supplement to those at all or any on the horizon I heard through the grae vine that we could possibly spend a half a million dollars and get more and we question whether we wanted to do that it once again that's all Rumor Mill for me but um are are we basically utilizing the six trucks and that's kind of what we're rolling with unless we all decide to authorize more money is that kind of where we're at on that so I wish it wasn't as complicated as it is and I know more about debris management that I ever wish I had to learn about um so this is a pretty complex issue because we are operating under a contract we had prior to the um storm and it's actually seven trucks you said seven seven we've been trying to get more resources because we have a supply and demand issue now and we have the state and another County in the in the state that is offering higher rates than Panela County and so penel County advised us today that they have submitted an emergency bid for the entire County but those rates will come in higher and we do not have confirmation from FEMA that the difference between the rate that we had prior to the Storm and The increased rate will be covered by FEMA so one of the decision points I'll have to bring to you once I get here from they should know by today I think they said Wednesday the contract Pro the RFP process will be complete they'll have more information for us and then we do what we call piggyback off the County's comprehensive RFP process but we will be bound by those new rates and so that's something we're looking at and we'll evaluate and bring back to you because it is a consideration but you're taking a risk that you would not get reimbursed let's say if it's a $100 a load right now and they come back with $200 you're going to pay the extra $100 and possibly not get reimbursed but it is a decision there are some smaller cities that just didn't even go through the FEMA process and so we're picking up the guard I mean a very very small City nothing compared to what we're dealing with but that's just one example of they just said we're going to just pick up the trash we don't care about if we get reimbursed we're taking it out of our reserves so I will bring that policy decision back to you to consider um especially if that's a priority because we are I mean I think the governor said nine months to clean up so I mean I hope we're we we were hopeful for the three month time range um but again they are making progress I I uh I think I'll know in a week BAS on what they've been able to accomplish uninterrupted what we're really looking at as a time frame so that you can make make a a good policy decision and what the community wants so as I understand it then what what the plan would be what you proposing or really what we're stuck with at this point unless we decide to do something dramatic here um we will go the next eight days with the seven vehicles that are currently deployed in the city uh and then possibly next Tuesday you'll present something to us whether we want to consider um paying a whole lot more money to get more resources yes okay um and I had a follow on that's not directly related to that but I let any of the other Commissioners I mean it is related but it's it's a sub of the debris pickup that I just want to get a clarification of I would ask when do you think we might know uh about FEMA being reimb from FEMA being reimbursable after to the County's Credit they have been pushing they have a female representative sitting right next to them they can they have been unable to get an answer so I would not I don't think you'll have an answer by next Tuesday you're going to have to really make a risk decision and hope for the best if we decide to move forward with a more expensive option could could we go by what what we've had in the past but I me I'm sure not many people remember I just happen to live in the neighborhood that has been flooded and experienced stuff that most people in the city didn't and we did have FEMA have to come in and pick up our garbage um people forget about ETA and Adalia um but donr was flooded and had appliances Furniture I mean it was the same same scenario um from what I remember there's a time frame right that um and you mentioned three months because is it just 90 days that female reimburses I guess that's one one of my questions and then the second just by history how long did it take um because and you might not have the sense I know you weren't here um as our city manager at that time um in the last two days they've been working it seems faster I don't and and I'm only going to say this because of our neighborhood um and I know some have not had any garbage removal I've been over to three PRS Point Bel Vista basa all the districts so I I know everyone hasn't but in the last two days they have been going nonstop um so yes by and and also by um P Grill because I I have seen them out there I know there may be issues that maybe we need to communicate to the residents um people have um debris close to Trees close to signs close to their mailboxes um so I don't know if we we are all working in the right direction to help them move faster and maybe why they're picking up in some spots and not others um maybe we need to communicate that um but I do see them moving faster so is there a time limit for reimbursement and at that point should we decide you know we we should have to pay this ourselves um because it could take a long time to pick up the neighborhood it took a long time for our neighborhood to be picked up in the past um it wasn't a year okay so I hope no one hears it it was a year it took time but nobody wants to see it and and I'm hearing the resident who spoke earlier and this is just for me to kind of understand what's happening because I I don't quite understand why there is a hill of garbage close to to her home or her condominium um are we moving it there is that where is it going and and at what point are they going to remove that I call it landfill right now out of our city so there is a really a four-step process for this debris removal so we have to have a debris hauler who are the big trucks then if you've noticed there's a car behind them that's called the Monitor and then there's the all call it a holding certified station by the the State of Florida we had that we've had that space at Egan Park um certified and I guess licensed by the state of Florida for the past 20 years and every city has to have sort of a drop off spot and that's where they weigh it take pictures unload it and then it goes transferred to the landfill and you also have to have a designated landfill that will agree to receive it right now Waste Connections is our designated landfill that is taking U the debris how long it will be at Egan I don't know the answer to that I will follow up with you and find out what is the expected duration once but at least you can expect that it will be in the condition it is in for the same time period that we're here removing debris because that that is the the the space that has to receive it before it can go to the landfill um it is not ideal but since I have a chance to um address publicly the question about you know we're worried about odor and Pest Control we um have expanded our contract we already have a pest control contract with the city we are expanding that right now to try to get ahead of it and um mitigate as much as we can for that neighborhood um and if you haven't seen Egan Park you should drive by it is it is not ideal um and I do feel for those residents and we are working very diligently to try to prevent um what she she expressed concerns about this evening so that's the process um and as far as FEMA we do have good news today um they approved so typically in a disaster you're only covered 100% the first 30 days they approved 90 days so there is a concerted effort to try to get this debris out of here in 90 days because we know we're 100% covered and so I will tell you I mean the county is now having coordinated debris meetings where we they're not you know it's a it's a working group now that's meeting to say okay and what's next and how do we coordinate and what are we doing so there is a lot of effort going going into this to to remedy it and and is there something we should communicate to the residents are are are they telling you there's an issue with pickup in certain neighborhoods the way it where it's located I know I know people call them looters but I know they're taking our appliances right the metals right and and they Shuffle everything around especially when you're not home I know we've got some Protectors of the garbage out there so um but and I hate to call it garbage because I know it's our belongings but it's our debris you know but um you know is that a problem because I know they need to know what they're taking I mean I know FEMA saying okay we have X amount of pounds of appliances x amount of pounds of landscape or does it matter the extent you can separate it it makes it much easier on the person pick the the truck that's picking it up if they have to move an appliance before they can get the main debris they're picking up up you I mean that's an extra movement so to the extent people can separate if they're not already so inundated I know some of that's just that's what's happened and it would be very difficult to ask but and definitely keep um vegetation away from the main pile of debris and the appliances if you can do that it's going to help them move faster because it's different trucks and how about like distances I mean I saw some people piled with debris all the way to their home and you know you've got this claw coming right I mean are they gonna come I want to follow up on that because I think they need to start as debris gets moved I think there's going to have to be some movement towards the curve there's also some that are like an electrical I I went by three pumps point I know they have electrical wires um in in the first half of that first point right and they have debris underneath all these wires so how are they and it's tight you know so if there again I'm just trying to make it or help the residents um so we could expedite it so that they're not just skipping their street because people think oh my God they were here but they they left you know but maybe there was a reason let me work with the team tomorrow to see some of the things we can help and if that truly is if it is an issue slowing down then we'll get some messaging out to see if we can help thank you do we have a an idea of how many homes were impacted I've had estimates 85 to 90% how many is that I would need I want to get you a more exact figure let me let me get that for you and we can report it out okay the reason I mentioned it is I've heard the same estimates 80 90% somewhere between 3 to 4,000 houses since about half his condos or so but even a lot of the condos the single story or two or three story condos on the first floor they were wiped out as well and until you've driven every Street in the city and you realize that we have 93 streets north south and then about a dozen streets East West and you think about that when the trucks come in depending on and I've seen the briis piles that are as tall or taller than the house that they came out of so when you realize that we've got seven trucks and each load can maybe depending on the pile three to five houses and they have to come separate for each different type of pile when you divide that by 3 to 4,000 houses I mean even 90 days seems incredibly ambitious and I simply say that because probably the most loud and assertive comments have been about the debris removal and how it's not moving fast enough and I I've got a pile and it smells and it's awful and I hate it but at the same time we're doing absolutely everything possible and I've I've talk to our staff I see what they're doing you know we have regular daily updates from the city manager if there was anything in the world that we could do to make it move faster we would and we're even looking at spending more money that we don't necessarily have right now to make it move even faster and so I'm I'm just I'm asking you to look at not just your house and your street but look at the entire Island and look at the devastation and just how insurmountable the problem of just removing the trash is because we got to pick through each pile take it to Egan Park weigh it right then get it off Island to a landfill so those trucks are driving there they're not picking up stuff when they're driving right so every single every single load three to four houses is a couple of hours it's just seven trucks and then you know you saying like well why don't you just hire more well everybody to the north of us was hit worse during the first hurricane and then everyone south of us got hit worse in the second hurricane and then they cut a SWAT across the across the whole state to you know Daytona in Jacksonville and they're all looking for the same thing and just like contractors I mean just trying to find some I'm surprised that the county has even anyone that they can find that can come in and do more I mean it's just when you look at the scale of just this one issue it's unbelievable and so I'm I'm simply asking for our residents just for patience and Grace because it is an unbelievably insurmountable problem and the fact that we're even able to tackle it just speaks to the quality of the staff that that we have in leadership um thank you um maybe just another piece of data I got today on the 13th of October they completed 83 loads so that kind of gives you another number Staff is working on proactively letting neighborhoods that they're going to be in their neighborhood so just again some hope you know if people know okay the trucks coming I mean I know I saw him on my street once and we thought it was a glorious day and so um it's just kind of keeping that communication and we're working harder to start to proactively let people know where they're going to be another question um for instance um because I know people ask me too um this is like the first pickup you know I know down my street there's three houses that there's people that haven't even come to their house in sine um so they haven't taken anything out um so who's cord my question is really about coordination I know there's a lot of moving pieces um and maybe how difficult that could be but um who's keeping tabs of hey we did the first round here now we're going to go do first round and the next one but we got to remember to go back to do the second round and um you know it's between the huler and staff okay they literally coordinate daily and so they've been trying to hit every spot once it could take two to three to four times and what we haven't put in the calculation is as soon as they remove the first pile of debris how much construction debris is going to start showing up yeah in the next 30 60 so it's just because it's not there yet doesn't mean it's not going to show up correct right I mean that's why I said there's a lot of homes I mean there's people who physically can't remove their own debris and I know I give them the resources uh hope Florida there was a couple of others that volunteer time for people who can't physically do it themselves so I hopefully they're looking at those resources that the city has posted out as well um but you know most people want to see their stuff um before it's gone right so uh like I said there's people who haven't been home so their first pickup hasn't even been done so you know it's you know it we might have to like later even have to pay um because of just the amount of time you know it it will take longer than those 90 days or or more um and with that is the calculation of 90 days on the second storm or the first storm that's another uh combination complicated answer so we are uh working hard with the county and the state to advocate for FEMA to combine these two storms we have not been successful yet um so we'll keep you posted but right now we are tracking to different storms with two different labor codes actions missions it's uh doubl the uh administrative burden at this point yeah thank you commissioner mohal and you had a follow-up or ancillary question I figured it out on my own based on the discussion thank you sir okay um city manager you had two items on employee relief in the PTO yes thank you mayor and commissioner I apologize I'm I'm assuming that commissioner mohal on your question on existing permits was answered yes okay could I ask one on that because I didn't think he was done just okay sure sorry just as I thought you were going to say no wait I have one more question because I didn't jump on your other one um for exist in permits um because there are people waiting right now right like we talk about in Q and and and I know you know very well about people who have been um upset about still waiting for when is their permit being reviewed and so with all of these now other ones coming in emergency permits and I know we're talking about having temporary um Staffing um to come in or permanent because God knows how long this will take what happens to all of the current existing you know like like I recognized that home you know that wants to go up you know they've been waiting for a long time um we're still in Hurricane Season you know when when are people who are waiting now um you know is it going to be pushed back I mean is it hard to say I mean I don't I know there's a lot of people waiting right so I think I'll ask the director to help subsidize my uh my uh answer but I have asked a community devel velopment there's a part of the comprehensive plan that um provides for the commission to create a policy to prioritize permitting post disaster so we are bringing that back to you as well but I don't know if we're Bound by some legal timelines with current permits in play that may not be impacted regardless of what policy Direction you give us but if you can help me fill in the blanks maybe so I should say over over the past two weeks even though City Hall was closed we were still processing permits so things submitted electronically were still being processed so on and so forth um I don't know spec anything about any specific uh permits to be honest so if there's something specifically that you want me to look into please let the city manager know uh the post is the the coastal element of the comprehensive plan um goal three baked within goal three of that does address post Disaster Recovery plans uh one of the things that we will likely bring to you next week is some recommendations to se of recovery task force that's that's identified within the coastal element post Disaster Recovery plan um goals is to to seat a task force that is seated with staff from Community Development as well as um those of your choosing and we'll we'll come back to you with a list of who we think you may wish to consider maybe they're members of other boards here Etc that will help us kind of get through hopefully quickly right get through those questions about moratoria whether or not for instance an example You may wish to consider should we establish a moratorium that means that we will not be looking at additions or new constru construction for a period of time including new construction where this where a house may be elevated we may we may say it makes sense for us to focus only on getting those houses that can be occupied to focus on those they're less technical in review we need to move through those quickly to stabilize as many homes as possible and move new construction out a little bit further that also means you know the rail it is those contractors and Engineers that then have to be a part of those processes it would probably take that long anyway but establishing a moratorium that addresses those things specifically we're going to be we're looking at those now um in this process what we've realized is what's sitting in munic code is not the most recent so I would ask you not to look at that um we're reaching out to Civic plus to get what has been recently changed in the coastal element actually put up there on munic code so that what we're talking about is what the public is seeing because the is not now and then of course working with um attorneys that we have under contract or uh Consultants that we have under contract to make sure that we're stepping through it properly as well lots of challenges when you're talking about property rights of course so we want to be very careful that you know we're not infringing upon those but we do have some flexibility does that answer your question yes thank you thank you so much thank you right city manager employee relief and PTO thank you so these these two uh programs are somewhat related the first one what I'm asking the commission tonight is under uh the extent of our emergency is to approve a resolution to make adjustments to our Personnel policies related to employee emergency relief paid time off and emergency paid time off we currently have a program for um a PTO employee donation program but it's limited to what they call the Family Medical Leave Act where if someone has a major illness of for themselves or family employees are allowed to donate leave and once they exhaust their leave they can use that leave to stay in a paid status while they go through the FMLA period this uh particular disaster had uh has essentially displaced or Dam significantly damaged 24 employees in our Workforce um and so we wanted to expand the program to in include a provision that would allow emergency relief paid time off and so in addition to FMLA the employee could request time off to tend to helping them with reconstruction finding housing um they do have to use all their own PTO before they ask for this and it's all um they could receive up to 40 hours and we send out a donation request from employees and those who want to participate can donate hours it's hour for hour so there's not a dollar figure you know my hour is not worth any more than um one of our mechanics and so once you put that in the leave bank and then it draws into um the other employees leave Bank as they need it up to 40 hours so again it's not front loaded either so it's based on need so that's the first one um the second uh policy I'm asking to actually adopt um there's a practice in the past on the city of allowing PTO but there was no policy um so I wanted to put this in place for the disaster first and then longer term I'll come back to you with with something um that many cities have in place as a regular policy but this would be related to essentially what happens here is um every fiscal year if you reach a certain cap on your leave you become you come in you fall into this use it or lose it category well we have a lot of employees that haven't taken leave that they otherwise would have um because of the two disasters some employees were not granting leave right now because we need everyone hands on deck unless um we are giving difference to those who were impacted to allow them to leave but anyone who can be here we're pretty much trying to have them here right now and so in an effort to recognize that some people will lose leave if we don't um offer this program we are putting um that they have to at least maintain an 80h hour leave bank that just provides for if they have their own emergency or or um especially in the future to take a vacation um and a maximum dollar amount for $3,000 so again everybody's leaves worth different worth different amounts based on their hourly rate so um they could choose to cash out up to 3,000 and the program would end by December of this year so I'm essentially asking if you would approve these two resolutions considering the emergency circumstances and that um I am interested in uh not only caring for the community but caring for our Workforce as they have uh been exceptional in these times and trying to give give them as many resources as we can to get us through this yeah I don't think many people realized that 20% of our Workforce was impacted as much as our residents were they lost their homes they lost their cars they don't have a place to live you know they're looking for a place to live they have pets they have all their belongings are gone and for the last three weeks they've shown up every day and they've gone from 5 days to six days a week some of them more longer hours um so I think we should do as much as we can for them so did Jill write this is that who who wrote These so Jill's been working on this and well they're very well designed I've uh got a little experience with similar things and uh even though I didn't see it till tonight uh I uh I think it's welld designed and it certainly seems like the right thing to do thank you questions comments I was just going to ask if we need to make motions for them separately or if we can yes okay you approve separately please do we have resolution numbers for them they're not on the on the second one of them says 2024 dxx keep going I see um in your packet 2024 21 21 and 22 and 20 422 okay uh I'll make a motion to adopt resolution 2024-25 2024 for hurricanes Helen and Milton I second city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes mayor mahand yes may Petrella yes motion carries I'll make a motion to adopt resolution 20242 2 authorizing the city manager to create an emergency paid time off cash out benefit program for an employees with an effective date of September 24th 2024 for hurricanes Helen and Milton second city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner R Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes may patella yes carries thank you thank you next we have uh staff reports city clerk yes I just have one thing so there's an election November 5th and it's at the Warren Webster in the community center there is nothing on the ballot that is City related it is a presidential election with County uh state and federal on the ballot um the community center is not operable for elections so I made the executive decision with the help of the supervisor of elections to hold the election here in the commission Chambers on Tuesday November 5th we do not have a commission meeting that day if you recall it's on Monday because of the election so they will be set up here at 700 am. to 7M it was the only option that we could provide that was in the same vicinity as the community center the Warren Webster is still viable and will be used for districts three and four voting that information is on the website and it was shared with Mark Portugal I'll make the announcement today I will make the announcement next time and I'll make the announcement again on November 4th thank you city clerk city manager thank you I know it's late but we talked about a lot but I wanted to leave you with a brief reflection um in moments like these we are reminded of The Quiet strength within our community and I wanted to take a moment to express sincere gratitude to both our employees and the residents of our community together we have weathered storms both literally and figuratively over the past week we faced challenges that tested all of us but it's your hard work patience and resilience that have moved us forward to this point I can't stress this enough the road to recovery will not come fast enough for any of us let's remember that it's our unity and shared commitment to one another that will keep us moving for forward I encourage everyone to reflect each day and celebrate one win today for some of our employees it was a hot cup of coffee a warm meal for the first time in 3 weeks or the ability to find fuel so they could make it to work for me as your city manager it was that you could drink your water flush your toilets and that FEMA approved a 30day norm normal uh disaster to a 90-day extension of 100% reimburse ment for the city the same compassion that has guided us this far will be the one ingredient that will keep us to continue to rebuild stronger than ever before thank you again for every small act of kindness you showed to someone else or self-care you recognized for yourself I wholeheartedly believe the recipe for success is here in sa P Beach thank you all for your support thank you City attorney yes thank you um I'm gratified that um you all solicited two very very good law firms and you couldn't have made a bad choice um fortunately you've got Erica still on your team doing your special magistrates so it makes me feel good that the folks that are coming in are and we'll do everything in our power to make sure that it is a seamless um transition but I also want to State this that um I know for a fact that you've got Ralph and Nancy over there and myself who in South Florida Southwest Florida we've gone through the same situation where things look very grim and that was not just Ian but it was Irma and Charlie before that and I know they look very bad right now but a year from now 2 years from now all the debris will be cleaned up it'll be in your rearview mirror and everybody will be back to normal life I know it's hard right now but I I guarantee you you've got two lawyers over here that are going to be joining your team that have seen you know the rising of it uh and coming back so that will happen have faith thank you sir commissioner malland not a lot to say uh as it relates to District 4 we've talked pretty much what we've talked about tonight is what the people are interested now but I also want to thank Mr Dickman and his firm for the professionalism that they've shown during this transition uh it it was really good to see and much appreciated from my perspective for certain so thank you sir you're welcome commissioner Riki just to follow with you I want to thank Andrew um and his firm to um for for your service to our city and it was 10 good years so I appreciate it um that helped me a little bit because I get very emotional so after hearing everybody but I've been through um a lot of storms so all my life in Florida um and big ones but the one thing I know is we're here and and that's what's important um and for the most part um sometimes people forget that and I want to remind residents to Just Breathe um there's no rush you know everyone's so rush to get their garbage out to find a contractor to get their drywall out to get the mold out um because we're stressed and I think we put our um our our strengths to that you know because we got to get it done we got to get things done but just stop and breathe because the people around you are here your family is here um your friends your neighbor all all these people are here willing to help you um so just remember that reach out to people um people are here we're not gone you know so um things are things you know I know people lost things um I remember many times throwing away albums um my childhood albums my mom who passed away um but the memories here right so that stays with us not our things so forget about your things we can rebuild um and it will happen um like I said I was born in Miami um all the Hurricanes seem to follow me for some reason Andrew um all of them Vilma and and real horrible situations um but I'm still here right and I think that's what's important um and and um every every District the whole city um everyone's helped each other you know people seen me wrapped in my towel coming out of the comfy stations when I'm taking a shower luckily they don't know it was the commissioner they just saw me wrapped in my towel but um but but we're all together so just remember that just just breathe take take some time for yourself there is no rush I know there's debris and and it's and we just want it to all go away um just just take some time for yourself so thank you thank you you miss me on my discussion item just have what did I miss you yeah the thing the look back oh sorry yeah sorry well we can discuss it now it's your turn okay I just wanted to bring this up because this is very important for for a lot of people um being that whether you've gone ahead and you've done some major improvements and you've already used up a substantial portion of your 50% allocation you're now going to be at Ground Zero again so it's a huge item to look at from um our community um and each individual municipality can set their own look back period and it's our way of kind of counteracting the F of 50% um I just want to bring this to everybody's attention so so that they're aware of it and they look at it and they realize that and we have a a I think more than you know a a maybe even a workshop on it I don't know but this is huge um we've got a lot of the beaches such as Gulfport has no look back Indian Rocks Beach has no look back we had no look back at one point too um panel's park has no look back St Pete has no look back other cities have a one-year look back we've got a five year it's can be crippling in this city with this this is a serious issue that we need to look at evaluate talk about and see what we're going to allow for that and um the community needs to be aware of that and with their Investments and what they can and cannot do is that something that that you're going to be presenting Denise because that that makes sense I know we have a fiveyear but you know like for example I had my I just remodeled my home just finished my permit last year right now now I got you know if yeah if you did if you did 100% of your or your 50% I used it you can't yeah I used it all so that's a good a good thing to for us to look at yeah so it is a fiveyear look back however the date on which that was set was in 2021 so we're actually it's a threeyear kind of is right now so it actually goes back only until that date so we're not fully into the 5 years um we can talk about that next week certainly think that we should what I don't know and I'll be looking to attorneys for I just haven't had a chance to look at this yet is whether or not you can go back because we have it on book at time of storm I don't know if we can modify and set to zero or one year or what have you I I don't know maybe you all know that I don't know can can you explain a second CU you kind threw me off you said three we're at three years but isn't it individual homes like I have so when we set when we set that fiveyear look back it was in 2021 I don't have the date off the top of my head and that sets the clock for what began that five-year look back period so we haven't fully reached that so it becomes fully effective in 2026 is does that make sense is is that but my clock started when I did a permit I did my permit if you did it after 2020 yes it's within that look back the current look back now what I don't know as I said is I don't know if we can now post hurricanes and you know Helen and Milton change the look back period and those storms I don't know I just simply don't know that I'm sorry so there there are other options though right with an appraisal for example many people do that though because I already did mine yeah I'm just saying home values have more than doubled since 2020 so it's so 2021 so maybe one of the things we can do is just help with educating the public on on how how to navigate the 50% so even if we're not able to adjust the look back period there are other options I think it would be very important for our building official to be here as well there's I think a lot of legal questions not just the questions from the residents but as we step through this 50% Rule and what are our options I think is very really important that everybody has a full understanding of what that means y there's going to be a lot of shocked people there will be I I did I pulled up just a couple of random residences on St Pete Beach so so the value is based on just value which is the just value of the structures that are in place not the land so the land is Exempted from that so it's presuming that that's what it would be to replace the structure is the just value it's surprised me it went up very significantly from 23 to 24 I would say that's reflective of the construction industry itself so it's probably not as it wasn't as shocking as I thought it would be it was about a 10 to 15% see seemed to be off of the market value the sales comparison value if you're looking at that I I was a little surprised too to see that some homes that were already FEMA compliant they're raised in the whole bit still had the FEMA letter did it yes so that was interesting to find I'm sure it will be a very interesting discussion so we can bring that back can you bring that back next Tuesday or do you need I would like to of course I would like to I just want to make sure I have all the legal opinions in the room as well because I think there's as much you know Florida building code FEMA our codes those sorts of things but legal really needs I need to have a solid understanding of that and more importantly we need legal to be able to participate fully so maybe I'm looking at our new Council what do you have going on next do you think you're going to be able to be here next week to help us opine on this we could be here Wednesday this week and I'd like to talk with the building official the certified PL flood plane manager and yourself as well oh perfect then we'll uh we'll bring this back to you next Tuesday at least some issue identification way has a little bit I yeah as as you all were discussing other matters I was digging back through and found the ordinance from 2021 when you move to a fiveyear look back period um I think it's a I think it's a very important question because FEMA will find important things that are not immediately obvious as being important so I think it's an important question to ask whether or not you can kind of go back what the fiveyear what you were implementing in the fiveyear is FEMA has a Prohibition on phasing okay they have in their regulations a Prohibition that you not break up a project into multiple projects so you say oh that project was you know under 50% and then this one and then you've you know Stone souped it the whole way to have a big new house what have you uh and then there's a lot of different ways local governments try to deal with that issue one of them is to have a look back period of one year five years what have you um I think the primary question would be what's FEMA going to look at uh because FEMA doesn't require a five-year look back there are a number of jurisdictions that that don't have a five-year look back the question is going to be how's fem going to look at it when there is a change there are other jurisdictions I can tell you just from peing around here number of other jurisdictions that have rolled back from a 5-year to lesser which I think is actually giv us the opportunity to get from them what the Practical feedback they've gotten from FEMA on so we'll uh we'll dig into that and hopefully be able to report back on that thank you sir thank you I want um just say I I just want to thank the community and all the residents for hanging in there and and being kind and um I've asked them to clean out their gutters because I said I would do it on mine and I've done it on my street I mean there's things we just got to do for ourselves that we can't expect the city to do because they're they're overwhelmed as well as we are so I appreciate everybody's kindness and everybody's Grace and everybody's patience and appreciate the community as a whole thank you thank you commissioner commissioner marott um so yeah I district one like everywhere else is uh uh full of houses that are at grade level and um you know my myself included we all had lot lots of water in our house and um I think that uh uh what the rest of the Commissioners have said tonight is very applicable and and and we all need to look for about two inches of progress a day and if we get two Ines of progress a day it's a really good day um and then I also wanted to mention that uh the Tampa Bay beaches Chamber of Commerce will have more information soon but they're going to be opening a information center not just for businesses but also for residents where they're trying to bring together a lot of resources where um residents and homeowners will be able to get more information about um you know about FEMA and and how to make sure you know how to look up your FEMA 50% number and uh information from you know with contractors and Builders and Architects and and to really be able to find out what your options are to make the best most educated decision you can because I know a lot of people probably feel the same way I do which is that I just I want to I want to be able to live in my house again as soon as possible because I love St P Beach and I and I love where I live um but it's going to take a minute to figure out and it's going to be hard to come up with all the information we need to make a good decision so um as as soon as they're ready we'll we'll I'll try to get that information out to everybody that that we can so that we can all make the best decisions we can about how to move forward thank you so we live in um there's an old blessing and en curse may you live in interesting times and we certainly live in interesting and unprecedented times I don't think any of us here knew what we signed up for when we ran for these offices um I'll Echo what what many we've already said you know the city manager um you know our staff lost their homes and yet they're still here and they go home and they try to pick up the pieces of of their parts um what we're going through is just unprecedented in the history of our city it's never happened not not in almost 70 years that we've been around as a city it just hasn't and I want to say I hear you I wish I had a magic wand I can just wave around and I could make it all go back to how it was three weeks ago I'm going to have to tell you some hard truths and we all will over the next few weeks and months and you're probably not going to like some of the things we have to tell you but we'll tell you the truth nonetheless and you'll have to decide how you react to that truth so I don't have a magic want none of us do we can't make it go back to how it was three weeks ago overnight it'll be it'll be months 6 months 12 months in some cases it's going to be a year for some of the businesses and properties to come back to what they were and I'll just Echo what some of the other Commissioners said we're we're going to need your patience we're going to need your kindness we're going to need your understanding we're going to need Grace we're going to need you to to come work with us on Solutions it's not going to help any of us if we're fighting against each other at this time that's not what's going to move us forward what's going to move us forward is the things that we've seen neighbors helping neighbors I've been borrowing somebody else's car for three weeks because turns out I had three cars and I didn't have rental insurance on any of them because I thought I had three cars what's going to happen one's going to go I've got two other ones I wasn't expecting all of them to go at the same time and yet here I am first one neighbor offered their car then another one offer their car I've had I've seen neighbors walking the neighbors helping them clean out you know watching their pets taking care of this letting them stay at their house that's what you know I've done several interviews and one of the questions that keeps coming back that's not quite asked it's like why are you guys still here why why are you even thinking about rebuilding but the reality is this is our home these are our homes this is our town we love living here we love being in Florida like commissioner res Nikki said you've been through a whole bunch of hurricanes I was there for Andrew I was there for Wilma Irma Charlie and and 14 all together and somehow I'm still here but that's because we love this state we love the town and this is our home and that's why we want to rebuild and we need we need your help with that we need you to to help your help to work with our staff to work with our commissioners so that we can move this forward as quickly as possible and as expeditiously and efficiently as possible and I'm I'm grateful and I'm hopeful um and I know that working together you know we'll look back in a year or two from now and say wow what what an incredibly difficult time but thank God for commissioner is Nick you thank God for Bob and Jill and Denise and everybody else that where everybody came together and so again I will I will ask that one more time that you give us that patience that Grace and that kindness because that's what's going to move this community together that's the thing that's going to last beyond everything else so thank you all mayor can can I'm sorry because I don't want to forget before we leave just to um just a um for those who lost their lives in our city if we could pay respects for them yeah we we had several um during the first hurricane that um you know lost their lives um so I think that's I appreciate that so let's take a moment of silence for those thank you everyone we are adjourned for