##VIDEO ID:T2MFfv0f8Jw## e e e e e e today is Friday December 20th 2024 it is 4 p.m. if you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all city clerk if you please do a roll call vice mayor mahand here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Robinson here commissioner Riki here mayor patrola here we have a COR okay first item are there any amendments to the agenda as proposed I have some ads okay um I have an action item uh for a motion to terminate freebie and discussion items um and the uh 2014 consent order and 2017 memo and also um adding to the agenda on January 28th decoupling of permanent items and um third one would be uh electrical full wiring uh rewire being under the minimal permit permy I'm sorry that was anybody understand what you said excuse me sir sir I will be repeating everything no I was having difficult yeah I'll be repeating everything and please if you have anything okay thank you I'm sorry decoupling decoupling of um so you requesting something to be add it to be the agenda on January on in January 28th correct okay so that we can just send to the city clerk perfect please send any items for future agendas okay um we can certainly discuss freebie I'm not sure what actions we can take on that today I would say neither the myself or the City attorney would recommend you take action on a non um agenda so we would you care to amend that to a discussion um I guess I I need to um yes I'll amend that to a discussion okay so we will add uh between action items three and adjournment four we will add uh two discussion items one for freebie one for a consent order will that will that suffice okay thank you is electrical electrical under the uh the full rewire for minimal permit or will that fall under is per discussion January discussion no that is not part of the January discussion so you would like to add a discussion item for electric wiring correct the full Ray wire under the minimal permitting okay okay so those would be items 4 a b and c and then the German will be item five okay are there any other amendments to the agenda as proposed yes sir I've got a couple things that I'd like to talk about but I think they're going to come up in the discussion so um okay I'd hate to have us adjourn and not discuss but I think that uh they're going to I'm going to have an opportunity to discuss them so I I I don't think that we have to I hope we don't need to add them so okay I think I'm good thank you sir is there a motion to approve the agenda as amended I make a motion to approve the amended uh agenda for the special meeting of Friday December 20th 2024 of the St Pete Beach City commission Second City Clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor patrola yes motion carries thank you if you'll please silence your cell phone thank you all right the first item is uh number two Helen and Milton recovery efforts thank you mayor let me just may I introduce this item but this was um the two items we put on the agenda this evening were to address what we would consider time sensitive information that we wanted to share with you and didn't think it could wait until mid January and so uh Brandon is here today to discuss um some changes in interpretation regarding the um look back period that you adopted and we wanted to make sure that because we had interpretation differences that were different than what were presented to you when you adopted it that you were aware of those and receive feedback from you on whether you desire any different direction from staff and um just want to kick it off and have Brandon uh give us the The Rundown and this is as uh this is followup after we passed an ordinance and then subsequently FEMA came back yes mayor and this was something that we were advised of at the time that FEMA might send this back to us for review yes this is one of the complications in this process as we have multiple jurisdictions advising us and um if any of you have been involved in language over the years one person views it a different way and um we just want to make sure that uh we bring this as soon as we find out that that we can share those interpretations with you thank you so is the city manager pointed out this is an interpretation change this doesn't tie into any language that was actually adopted through ordinance 20246 the language that is incorrect was incorrectly applied has since been corrected was included in the 2021 ordinance where the city went to the 5-year look back um it was retained in the 2024 ordinance where it was reduced to one year we met with representatives from FEMA on the 12th uh two days of course after this ordinance was adopted and they did clarify that exceptions never apply to Restoration from a damaging event or from simultaneously active permits those exceptions being the ones that were discussed at the meeting back in November the equal change out of mechanical Windows Doors and re roofs essentially multi-year look back Provisions only allow exceptions to the higher standard never to the minimum nfip requirement there is no benefit of a higher standard that allows for effectively a loop pole on these um exceptions it's it's only a an exception to the higher standard that a city adopts and I'll give a few examples of that in the moment a permit can never exceed the 50% appreciated value of the structure without requiring elevation or demolition so this was an example that was shown to you back in November this is unchange this is the exact same interpretation that was presented to you in November if you have a home with an appreciated 50% value of $50,000 the homeowner had opened a permit for a bedroom and bathroom remodel in the amount of $45,000 in February of this year they had planned to close it out in October in September the structur sustained $20,000 in storm damage added to together the $45,000 permit plus the 20,000 sir I'm going to ask you to please step outside until you resolve yourself on thank you please continue with the repairs and the elective improvements that were still open added together they add up to $65,000 it's 65% of the depreciated value that would be considered a substantial Improvement the home would need to be elevated or demolish so again this interpretation is unchanged this has been applied by the city um back back since uh 2021 so this is a change to what was presented to you again a structure with a 50% subtantial Improvement value of $50,000 the bed in this case the bedroom and bathroom remodel was closed out prior to the storm event however the homeowner sustained $60,000 in storm related damage to the structure this now includes the Exempted item so let's say independently previously there had been $40,000 in electric plumbing and and drywall repairs that needed to be made $220,000 in roof and mechanical change out repairs that needed to be made these now need to be added together based on the interpretation that we received from FEMA so in this case whereas previously under the previous interpretation it might have only been a $40,000 repair for substantial Improvement purposes it's now $60,000 those Exempted items do need to be included in the cumulative repairs needed to restore the structure Brendon a quick question before you move because since I'm looking at the heading at the top and it says one year and no look look backs are you mean that's what they're saying for both whether we had a no look back back correct and all all three examples I'm presenting here are going to apply the same to a onee a nol look back if we went longer it would be unchange they all apply the exact so how far do they go back on that and I just need this clarify because if it's if it's something that's an exemption does that mean like 20 years ago no no no so every everything else stays in place based on the language that was adopted so we started fresh on September 24th 2024 so anything closed out on that date We're Not Looking Back any further to that the only thing that we're looking at are open permits on that date and any storm related damage that takes place on or after and then this is another example that was presented to you back in November again it's unchanged the interpretation applies to both the one-ear and the nol look back options um should a structure have sustained $45,000 in storm damage in September the permit's open it's Clos down in February 2025 the homeowner then immediately pulls a permit for a $45,000 elective bathroom and bedroom remodel again under that 50% structure value they close that out next year they sustain $10,000 in storm damage these are all consecutive permits there's no overlap at no point in time does the homeowner have more than 50% of the structures value open in permits at the same time they would be fine they would not need to elevate the structure in this instance just the same as was presented back in November so I had presented that there was a benefit to the one-year look back and that it allowed us to include or sorry exclude those exemptions that I had outlaid in in November that is not the case um the one-year look back and the no look back options are the same in every regard except that the one-year look back is stricter the only benefit to the one-year look back is that it does promote resiliency during blue skies it does have that one-year look back for the elective improvements that prevent the homeowner from making consecutive improvements to the structure and and that's a benefit in terms of at least in in terms of resilienc so in terms of implications um the Silver Lining to this we have I have looked back we have not issued any permits for Hurricane related damages that going back and recalculating in the exceptions are then going to cause that structure to be considered substantially damaged we have reviewed all of those permits in which there were window door change outs mechanical change out re roof not none of these recalculations put the structure over the threshold for substantial damage we begun correcting for this lack of exceptions moving forward any permit issued as of the date we were um notified of this we'll we will be looking at those those exceptions and adding them in if needed the substantial Improvement in damage packet has been updated to correct for this lack of exceptions we are looking for direction from the commission tonight on either reverting to a nol look back option that was the option b that had been presented to you back in November or simply amending and clarifying language to prevent this mistake from being made in the future so looking at the no look back reversion this is again the minimum nfip requirement it's the minimum requirement for the city to remain in the program it has no CRS Point implications compared with the adopted one-year standard we don't earn any points for the one-year standard we would not earn any points if we went down to a nol look back minimum nfip requirement it is more permissive than the one-ear look back with the clarification issued by FEMA there is no benefit to the one-year look back other than resiliency in in terms of this event um and that's of course a more a blue sky long-term option the one-year look back only encourages resiliency through home hardening it does not provide loopholes to the minimum nfip requirements and this is our substantial damage um definition in the code I won't go through all of it but this would be the second option that we're presenting to you um and it's really just clarification to make sure that this mistake is not made in the future that there isn't this consistent misinterpretation um when when future staff um begin to interpret this code and we're simply adding asking to add the language that a project shall include the cost associated with repairing a substantial sorry repairing a damage structure to its pre-damage condition projects being any overall improvements that need to be made following a storm or during a substantial Improvement um that need to be considered by staff in this calculation so again we're just seeking your direction we would bring this back in January neither of these affect the new interpretation there's nothing that needs to be amended into the code we know how to move forward on this but we just want to make sure that the code is either short up for future interpretation or that we give the commission the option to revert to a no look back what we had in place prior to 2021 due to how it was presented to you back in November do you have any questions for me of course there's one more option and that would be to opt out of the national flood insurance program is that not correct that that is an option okay I have a question um SI and SD is still decoupled correct that doesn't change yes correct okay so what happens in a situation where again you would say this would never happen in a million years except that it did happen which is you have a house that's flooded during one event and then two weeks later your roof blows off so in consecutive events where repairs are not made in between the events they have to be cons considered one damage period um so we I don't believe issued any permits for storm damage repairs in between holen and Milton so they have to be considered one damage period for the purposes of calculating substantial damage if someone had sustained if their home had sustained damage from Hurricane Ian they had completed the repairs they closed them out and then hurricane Helen damage occurred those would be considered distinct events whether under the one year or the no look back because the improvements had been or the repairs rather had been completed between the events but because of this unprecedented situation the repairs were not made for any structures between those two then this comes directly from FEMA or is this that's FEMA yes okay so they want us to count the events separately in every other scenario right mhm invoicing de breeze removal but they want the homeowner to counted as one event and it's because that definition includes the cost to restore structure to its pre-damaged Condition it's not necessarily tied to a specific event um and it could be a you know it could be fire damage it could be vandalism there could be other damaging events that occur that aren't necessarily tied to a storm but it is it's the cost for restoration to pre-damaged condition thank you so the all along my position's been help the most people hurt the least people and do what's best for the long-term uh interest of the city um if we stayed with what I'll call option two but modified well not call it or option one and modified it um what's the impact so far as how many we help how many we hurt I don't have an exact count other than to say that based on the permits that have been issued no one has been hurt in terms of their home be being considered substantially damaged based on this new interpretation but the code amendments don't really affect that interpretation it's how we have to interpret the code at least as long as we stay in the nfip um the clarification is just to prevent this mistake from being made in the future the benefit of the no look back would be again during the during the Blue Sky periods where a homeowner is looking to make consecutive improvements to their home none of those improvements being substantial but where consecutively added together they would be considered substantial improvement over the one-year period if the city were to go to a nol look back what they had in what we had in place prior to 2021 that would allow those consecutive improvements to be made and not need to be considered um cumulative but in terms of the clarifying language being added to the code that that doesn't help or hinder anyone in comparison to what we have in the code currently which one are we most likely to have somebody fall in a doughnut hole during Hurricane Season Tech technically the the there could be a situation where the no look back if someone were to look to make multiple voluntary improvements to their structure after they complete their hurricane repairs um the no look back would benefit them but in terms of the storm damage period neither option is more beneficial or less than the other they're both the same it's this is we're bringing this item to you because of the interpretation changes not due to anything that's in the code it just how it's been interpreted so the oneyear look back uh from a city resiliency issue Still Remains a more viable option long term long term I'd say in the short term it we don't really know if either one of them helps or hurts more people is is that would be a correct uh I would say they're they're ly equivalent in terms of storm damage hurricane damage relate because it it doesn't affect that that side of it the repairs as long as the repairs open at one time don't exceed the 50% depreciated value of the structure that's going to apply the same under a nol look back back or a one-year look back the the benefit of the no look back is that it allows those consecutive improvements the benefit of the one-year is that it during nonstorm events it allows for that slightly increased resilience and just for clarification on the multiple permits are we talking hardening items as well um windows that or are those excluded On The backto Backs yes so that that's a good point I'm not explaining it well but I think you understand what I'm trying to say I do so during non non-storm events if a homeowner decided to pull consecutive permits for hardening items so they decided to replace their roof they decided on on the next permit to replace their windows and doors after completing those improvements closing them out they would still be at a zero balance because those are specifically accepted in our code from the cumulative one-year improvements what they are not what we received clarification that they are not excluded from is from storm damage repairs if they need to replace Windows Doors roofs as a result of storm damage they have to be added together but they would remain accepted under the one year and under the no look back as long as it's it's closed right because you said closed if it's still open you're replacing your windows and your roof and it's still then it counts correct okay and I think it was pointed out at one of the last meetings you know making these improvements outside of storm season you know prevents that type of type of risk what we were saying close Okay I'm going to go back to what the word the language you said cost to pre-damaged condition right so FEMA and and I'm trying to go back to you know I'm a proponent of no look back I was before and and I still stand there because when I read the reference book and it says the cost to pre-damage condition so we had Helen you you had the damage right that day and so now you have this damage and and now you're trying to determine the cost of repair pre preh heline we're moving along doing our packet and all of a sudden we've got Milton Comming right mil Milton comes now Milton damages so the day before Milton I was already damaged so my cost is to repair from what is damaged after Milton this is how I'm reading it lit literally right pre-damaged condition before that event so to go to say I'm adding the cost to Helen doesn't make sense to me because my damage is the day before Milton not before Helen I've already lost a lot that day right so to me it's still I'm not seeing it as added more because I'm already damaged I haven't even done a repair I haven't pulled a permit so now I'm trying to repair a damaged building right that that I haven't even done anything with so I I I still and I think if I remember and I'm trying to remember everything in that reference book I think they've even had an example and scenarios like that when you have something so close to each other that that um FM um FEMA look looks at um what it was the day before that storm whether it's a storm or fire or whatever event it is the event right um because you could have been damaged and maybe you haven't even decided you don't even know what you're going to do you don't know if you're going to LIF the home you don't you don't even know what's going to happen so to me it's not complicate the situation right look storm to storm or event to event um because that's what they're doing anyways um I I don't see a communative and I hope that we're seeing the language that we're not going to tell someone let's go see what it looked like before Helen it's going to look a lot worse after Milton obviously you haven't had that much time now a Year's worth of time you know to lapse um we had I don't even remember the name of all the storms it one before Helen um and I know because I had to do a claim right I had already an open claim from the prior Storm from Helen was it aalia I can't remember the order so I already still had something that I had um gone to my insurance company to to claim right and they reminded me I'm like oh yeah 2023 I forgot about that flood right so these things are always there but that was not as significant to my home as Helen was so the storms could be different we could have a category five and be talking about a different situation a category one so damage will always be different but it's always storm to storm you know like they did with my insurance company it was the same thing they're just looking to that event so I mean I I am a propon a proponent still of no look back because I feel that's not feel that's what I've been reading is what they're doing anyways um instead of commuting it more it seems like we we made it I remember when we went to the fiveyear and I was not very happy we went to that fivey year back then in 21 or whatever year that it was adopted um and now we're here you know trying to massage it more again instead of just going to what um FEMA looking at well no one's trying to massage anything they're asking for direction and based on the information that we had at the time we made a decision based on the information we have now we have updated information after FEA came back to us and so the staff is asking for direction as to what do we want to go what do we want to do based on the new information that we have there seems to be no benefit to one year or zero look back I mean at this point you know um so I think what the staff is looking for they're looking for direction M you know and so that if we have consensus that no look back is the way to go then we can send it back and bring it to the very first commission meeting in January um as as an updated ordinance at that time I have a question which one see is more efficient in in time and um is one more efficient for permitting uh versus another as well as for e e explaining to residents well the the no look back is simpler just because we look at open permits if nothing else is open if it's under the 50% value we we issue the permit um with the accumulative there will be those situations where we have to look back so I guess in that regard it's it's more efficient thank you um I think everybody asked the questions I had I think that that uh that going to the nol look back option seems to make the most sense with the information that we have now okay does that provide you with the direction you need can we not make a decision now like do we have to wait till CH it's not an action item and I thought it was oh no and you can give us Direction we'll bring an emergency ordinance and we can put staff in a position to start to look at things through that lens I mean we can also you know have another emergency meeting another emergency meeting um yeah I mean people are waiting right I mean we don't want to wait till January because it would be waiting till January 14 is that their next one that's yeah so how much time does a City attorney need to draft or make an amendment to drafted it's drafted yeah it's drafted already what are we doing Monday and this is because we have to put on an action right so we have to wait this Madam city clerk what do you need for noticing I need 72 hours at minimum is Monday for Monday 5:00 P p.m is that 72 hours I would have to notice it today at 5:00 p.m Monday at 6 p.m I would have to notice it I understand I'm saying that I mean to notice it by thence on Monday yes I'll have I can work on it while I'm in here that's fine okay can we but wait are you saying to call a meeting for Monday call a meeeting for Monday I am going to be on a plane just so you know I can't even remember I'm like still I think I don't I won't and you can't re land we need we need three people for consensus and then we need three votes for an emergency do we need three people yes okay I'm here yeah I'll be here so you're assuming that I'm going to vote for this I'm assuming I'm assuming nothing I'm simply saying I'm assuming nothing either if the consensus is to bring it back just first make a consensus I'll be here okay um so but I think we need three to pass anything you still need three to pass it I mean I I'm certainly I'm certainly leaning towards that's the direction that we ought to go but um I I do believe that um you know long term the one year is the better option for the city but I recognize all these other factors uh and I am likely willing to acques to that but uh I might change my mind between now and Monday but I'll be here Monday okay Joe just to give you one more thing to think about I as as I've been thinking about this I think the the one-year look back what it mostly does is it encourages the city to prop up a industry of people doing FEMA appraisals it doesn't actually change the outcome it just just uh supports the industry that does FEMA appraisals and and Joe could you I mean just so that we could have the discussion in case I'm on a plane what what um you you said that um you favor something I think on the one year can can you help get it in my head so that I know what it is that you favor for one year first of all I want to evaluate it so I may not no I mean right now if currently you feel that way well I I feel like the backtack permits and I could be wrong but I feel like they encourage um a lot of sub substantial Improvement to properties that are at risk properties um and that's really my biggest hangup about it and maybe I'm wrong I've had I've talked to a couple local Builders one feels it's no big deal one says yeah I think you're right on that um so I've heard mixed messaging but me personally I just think that it encourages you know too many improvements on homes that are at risk uh really that's fundamentally why I feel the way I feel on that but you know I'm I'm not likely to dig in my heels on this but I don't know I may you know think about it over the weekend and feel like yeah you know I still feel super strongly about that but I think right now I'm where everybody else here probably is but uh since we don't have to vote now I'm not prepared to say how I'm going to vote on Monday because I believe for the long-term um well-being of the city uh if we ever have another event like this uh that the the back-to-back permits is going to put more people in a bad spot that are going to be losing their minds and whoever the next commission is the next city staff and the city manager is going to be dealing with this um I just think we're encouraging more of the same let let me let me just say one thing to that when you do your homework um watch the historic commission um sorry the historic preservation board meeting this week and and I watched a couple but one thing that to me was you know I'm like the emotional one so I don't want to cry but um is to hear people call the homes by names that she's you know I'm a I like the the water right ships and we say she's right that she this is my home right um I don't want to decide for someone whether they want to save their home or not right that's their home whether they like it as a 55y old home whether they're going to lift it whether they're going to repair it a 100 times in the future some people um have acquired there was a few people that were in this particular meeting that acquired the home this year so they actually purchased the home in July closed took the storm and now want to make it historic because they value that home um the historic of the home or just the home overall they they feel Pride on it it's their choice I have serious talks with residents about you know this could happen again we all know this could happen again but I don't need to tell someone it could happen again I don't think that um I need to tell people um don't keep fixing your home okay I think they could figure that out if they want to or they do not want to but it is their home their choice the thing that they love dearly okay I mean I cried that meeting watching it and I watched on on live um I wasn't here that day um and I've watched people down my street one home that just got lifted um it's a 55 year old home it's it's lifted it's under Basin anybody could see it um and several other people who have called and reached out because they're going to lift their home because they want to save that home and now they are hardening it and then there's people who just want to fix their home they want to get in their home and just because you're getting in your home today doesn't mean you will not either lift your home tomorrow demolish your home tomorrow or whatever it may be it's their choice some people can't afford it um to do an extensive repair to um flood proof it or or demolish or or whatever may be but give them the choice yes I've seen homes go up for sale which is basically Lots we've all seen few of them going up I know I've already seen three clothes in the Donar neighborhood that I was quite surprised that they sold that's their choice um so again uh no look back I I you know if people are going to be stacking permits because they're trying to skirt a potential storm that's their decision okay I I'm not it's not making it any better um for me or for the community as long as we're following the guidance of what it says on the reference manual that we are doing our due diligence and have the process in place to making sure that permits are being submitted according and that we are monitoring it then we are doing what the city is supposed to be doing everyone should be making their own choice on what they want to do with their home keeping it or not keeping it lifting it hardening it whatever it may be um because some people are working pretty darn hard right now trying to save their home um and and I do value that when people are doing it it's not an easy decision and and this has been pretty hard I think for many people already as it is so I I just encourage you to watch that please but but what I think I don't think we heard anything tonight that indicates that either option prevents anybody currently from doing any of the things that you're suggesting but but we we do encourage what I think the city should be doing is trying to get money um offering grants for hardening you know things to encourage we can do things as a city that could encourage people to make their homes better stronger more resilient um and the city do the same thing in itself we we need to focus on the city and our structures and our infrastructure and hardening it as well and not keep putting more things on on residents when we have to harden a lot that's within the city as well so I think we could put our energies um to offer things for them there's other cities that help people like what I think like money mitigation funds I think I'm the guy who asked $30,000 or Miami Beach I know I talked to this you can go to their website rise Miami Beach they give money for people to raise their home to improve their seaw walls okay they matching grants with the state we should be putting more effort to find funds to help people to improve our infrastructure not only just for the city but for the residents as well they're giving money to residents home so I know that's always a hard topic because we feel like we can't but there is money out there that that City so what what money do we have that we're not giving out to Residents well we we've not we don't have any grants for that that so like Miami Beach had actually um committed money towards the state so that they could have funds within the city so that they could match money with a resident if for example they want to um lift their home or improve a seaw wall I you could I don't want to I I know you don't have it in front of you but if you go to their website go go to so so commissioner you've been in office now for almost a year at any point you could have brought these great ideas to us and that's I well where are the grants where where's the information on the grants I mean this all sounds great and I and and and principle I 100% agree with you but you've had the opportunity for 12 months why have you not brought this to us why have you not gone out the grants are available let's apply for them we haven't app I have no we haven't well first of all I'm not a grant writer here but I have brought them up even before I was on the commission okay I've been wanting to talk about resiliency for quite some time so um you could you could uh look up a lot of meetings that we I wanted to bring that as a priority for the city and the resiliency part is about that about money mitigating money for the city and for people's homes so don't don't say that I have not brought it up because I have brought it up you have brought it up I'm saying where's the action behind the ask um we were busy with other things apparently so we haven't done it so um yes just as well as like looking at our I appreciate it and so we will have this conversation on on Monday I would say to commissioner mohal and here's where I think I I disagree with you um and I do agree with you in the principle of hardening and putting things in place to allow residents to do that I think the challenge that we have right now is for the last 12 weeks we've been making changes at and and decisions you know at break next speed and then we've had several situations we've had to go back because we found new information from FEMA and so here is why I would say in this scenario I would be in favor of the one year on of the no look back back is because we need to make that decision of one year versus zero look back when we actually have time to review the information you know when we're not in the crisis mode where we're not having emergency meetings to make these decisions these are decision that should be made you know with with care and diligence and research and at this point the staff has not had the time to do any of those things I mean they're in crisis mode we're in crisis mode so we're con so we're making decisions on a weekly basis now and then sometimes we have to backtrack some of these decisions because we didn't have all the information or because FEMA decided that what we had planned doesn't work for them and they want us to redo it and that's why I would say in this scenario I would be in favor of the new look back and then bring that discussion back in six months from now or a year from now when we're not in crisis mode and we can make an intelligent decision based on all the facts have those conversations with FEMA for six months until we've exhausted all of them and they tell us exactly what one year no look back five years whatever it looks like rather than having to you know keep coming back and and change things and that's that's the reason why not that I don't agree with you in principle we should be doing I agree with you in Principle as well we should be doing more for hardening you know what I object to is telling people we should be doing things and then not taking any action that's that's my concern and so if the time for talk is over you know it's time for Action if there are resources for Grants bring them to the commission let's have those conversations let's get the staff to pursue those grants we already talking about bringing somebody in on a more permanent basis to help with grants so let's do those things but for today's discussion on the no look back period um it sounds like we have consensus we're going to bring it back Monday at 6 pm. city clerk if you can please notice that and then City attorney and city manager do you have what you need at this time to bring this back on Monday yes sir before we close this item could I just make two comments certainly so Mr Mayor and and I I know you agree with me I was not saying that I didn't think that was the direction we needed to go I know that okay I was just I was saying but I I am not going to sit here today if we're going to have a special meeting and say how I'm voting on Monday and then we're saying that that's we're saying let's bring it back on Monday for a review and a vote I understand and then commissioner R Nikki um I thought we were talking about look back and she started on grants and the like I just want to say that I believe the city manager would back me up on this I'm the guy that's been talking since day one about getting lobbyists in here to talk about how we get more money so I'm all for that and but I don't really know what that has to do with the look back so I just wanted to clarify those two points thank you Mr Mayor thank you sir okay city manager thank you mayor yes I have the direction I need and just for the record I will be out of state on Monday so I will make appropriate accommodations to have someone here in my stad thank you mayor Commissioners I do have public comment okay Jackie objection since it's not noticed on the agenda just want to confirm with the Commissioners that they have no objections to public comments at this time no objection okay thank you Jackie McCall if you will please state your name and address for the record um Jackie McCall at 434 77th Avenue St Pete Beach um I'm not a great public speaker so this is taking all that I have to get up here um but I you know I want to let you know my house's name is Betty White because she's white and she's precious and she's a little cottage um I've lost everything that I own everything I own's on the street um I've lost my car I had to buy another car I'm standing here you know I've been in a hotel for a month and I was couch surfing for another couple of months so I'm saying this letting you know um that this means a lot to me so i' just like to learn a little bit more about why St Pete Beach chose to adopt option one under Fe femous handbook section 7.5 um this is different than the option one and two that you're discussing as relating to the the look back period I'd like to suggest that we explore option two to eliminate the use of substantial damage letters just like our neighbors did in Treasure Island this week option two is also compliant with FEMA's regulations and was provided to all of the islands as a path forward this option would streamline the permit process and get residents in their homes faster and then I'd also like for the city to examine Treasure Islands hiring of Jacob's Engineering as an extension of staff for the permitting process our city needs help Expediting the permit process and getting residents back into their homes um you know all the residents here feel like something more needs to be done as we are three months past the hurricane and the majority of residents still can't return home the goal should be to comply with FEMA streamline the the process and allow residents to return home thank you thank you excuse me we're going to maintain the Quorum here and then I would like to ask the city manager uh if you would mind at the end maybe just providing a quick update on permits would that be that's next up okay thank you Steve Moore if you please state your name and address for the record my name is Steve Moore excuse me 3526 bis to drive east and um good evening I should say my name is Steve and I am substantially damaged I am trying to work my recovery process but uh you're not making I don't mean you but the city is not making it easier I'm really here not for myself tonight but uh my neighbors are are completely unaware of this substantial damage letter process uh they're there they're they're they think they're waiting for go ahead for the permits the red tape their contractors to start work uh I I know that the damage letters are rolling out with permit numbers I didn't understand this myself until just recently they don't understand it I know that my neighbors are going to receive the certified letter in a week and these are older people they've lived there for 30 50 years in some cases uh they may not make it they they think they're just waiting to fix their house they may not make it their number may be too high to overcome and the appraisal may not help them but I'm telling you they don't know and anybody watching now look on the permits the damage letters are rolling out fast you guys are way down the road on this and I appreciate that but the dayto day it's it it's not being you know looked after uh the process is much too hard and that's for people that just are B have a basic understanding of it uh my experience has been has been terrible uh a neighbor of mine I just happened to be standing next to them at the permit desk they received received their letter they were 7 75 plus% damaged however they were prepared and the next day the number came down to a little bit more than 30% how is that possible something's wrong with the process what I've been calling the magic eightball uh evaluation program the secret one that the county has worked uh it may really end up being a magic eightball there may be nothing in there I requested uh an inspection an actual inspection was told that things look good I was at the counter things look good 25 30% what I expected I'm one of the lucky ones uh a day later I get I'm substantially damaged the letter I don't know whether the the the county driveby evaluation over Road uh the actual live in-house inspection I see the building officials Corrections on the the field notes in red something's wrong and the process isn't working but the fact is that most people don't even know what the process is thanks thank you sir and I believe you'll get some clarification that specific in the next report John kurman thank you s Rarity Jill mados if you please state your name and address for the record my name is Jill mados my address is 64078 Avenue St Pete Beach Florida 3376 um nice to see you all again unfortunately one thing I want to touch on um vice mayor is uh you talk about the look back thing um I do appreciate what you said Mr Mayor that we need action now I mean I understand looking through to the Future for our city and everyone else but what about now those properties won't be here if we don't do now so I I really think the no look back thing is something that needs to be considered um and I'm all for what Miss Jackie said about um option two I mean we're finding delays over and over again there's a lot of talk there's a lot of meetings it's not much action I mean we're in rentals we have to pay mortgage we still don't know really what's happening with our house I um got a letter I got my uh substantially damaged letter my estimate is 50.6% according to the rules I have to either Elevate tear down by 6% I can't afford that there's no way ironically enough I got a letter from FEA FEMA who has given me0 for rental moving any type of assistance I did get 770 bucks for food or whatever in this letter from FEMA it specifically says FEMA has determined your home was damaged by the disaster but the damage did not make your home unsafe to live in how does FEMA tell me that my house is safe but you tell me I have to tear it down how does any of this make sense to the average person we just need something because we just can't do it for much longer and then to tell us now because I have a substantial damage letter that I have to do an appeal now here's more paperwork more longer process to wait for you to look over my appeal and then to possibly stamp my permit so that I could possibly go back to work yes in the meantime I did go ahead and put money out again for an independent appraisal which once youall look at it and do whatever data entry you do my substantial damage is going to go down to minimal because this is raising my value of my home over 50% of what you all were going off of and I had to pay a contractor to fill out a FEMA packet more money out of my pocket not sure where all the money is going to come from or where I'm going to live soon that's all I just wanted to bring it to your attention as to what's going on with the people that live here or don't live here thank you Mr Mayor may I make a comment please me um so I don't want to be characterized as the guy that says no I don't think there's anything that I've said since we began this process that has said anything that I wanted to slow things down for anybody or that I wanted to do anything that would slow things down and I would um challenge anybody to find the video evidence to prove that but I think it's important that we have intelligent conversations and I had mentioned this earlier if we just want to make everything go away let's just opt out of the program let's have a dis discussion about that uh let's let the residents come in and see if that's what they'd like to do I'm not saying I'm not saying that I advocate for that because I don't I don't think it's a smart move but there's plenty of people whose positions lead me to think that we should have that conversation because the narrative is is that flood insurance gets more in more expensive and we potentially become a cash Market there's a lot more to it than that there's mult multiple items more to that but that's not the narrative out there it's the narrative or we just go to private insurance uh private flood insurance um and that you know we go about our business and we pay a little more for for flood insurance I ask you again if you want to speak you can fill out a yellow card you can bring it to the city clerk and you will get your time uninterrupted until then you will let other people who are speaking also speak uninterrupted I don't think that's too much to ask do you I no ma'am ma'am if you if you would like if you would like to speak if you would like to speak we have the cards in the back there's there are the cards okay there are the cards you can fill them out and then you will take three minutes to speak uninterrupted whatever it is you would like to speak commissioner please continue so all I'm saying is is if it seems as if a number of residents want us to consider that option I don't think that's why wise I really don't think that's wise but a a lot of the feedback you get would lead you to believe that that's the option we should go in based on what people are advocating for uh so I I'm just putting that out there but once again nothing I'm saying or have said is to slow anything down in the city but I once said this on the board of adjustment I'm not going to sit here and be a leming I'm going to sit here and I'm going to have a conversation and we're going to discuss things and we're going to move as quickly as possible and I wanted us to move more quickly on the look back thing um but I basically got advice that that wouldn't be the way to go so I was willing to do that so anyway I I just think it's important that uh you know the misinformation in the lake uh if we want to consider the exiting from the national flood insurance program maybe we need to add that to an agenda item um moving forward because there just seems to be a lot of dialogue out there that that that people think we should just throw caution to the wind and start rubber stamping permits quote unquote uh that I've seen so anyway uh I just I I don't think anybody on this board has advocated anything trying to move stuff forward I I agree with you and it's it's I think it's done from a place of frustration for residents um and that's where it's coming from um they've had unclear direction uh things haven't been our our website is not the most friendly um it's kind of layered down it's hard I I my heart goes out and I've talking to a few other residents about once I can get my stuff together being able to be a source to help some of the elderly folks out there because we have a large elderly population that doesn't have access and everybody who's a little younger than me all think that everybody you know is computer savvy and all this and they can get on and they can you know navigate the website and do all this heck I can I can sometimes can't even navigate our own website so and I find some of the information very uh difficult to understand or and or follow um so I I I I feel the frustration I know where it's coming from I think some of the things there's a lot of uh misinformation out there on next door that's going around this option one option two there's no option one option two please everybody just read FEMA p uh 578 or uh sorry uh 758 Read that read section s read the whole read the whole thing it it it it doesn't say there's not going to be a substantial damage letter it doesn't say that and as far as what we we've been doing is is we have been doing as best as we can because we did not have the staff as well to do to do get out and immediately do assessments immediately do and that's what option one had called for so we did do what we could do in a combination of both of those both of and they're not even it's an or thing so so excuse me again if you would like to speak please fill out a form come to the front Okay this is not a just calling back and forth scenario so the commissioner speaking I'm going to ask you again very kindly and politely to let her speak on interrupted just like we let you speak when you came forward thank you I probably have a lot of questions like everybody el else does because I did receive my my letter as well and I'm 63.9% um so um I do have questions in regards to the whole process because I I've seen stuff on there just as well as everybody else has that said I had 25% Plumbing damage and I had not a single issue with my Plumbing I'm raised two and a half I'm raised two feet up and that isn't accounted for in anything I got no cost value from my fireplace there's just stuff it's just very subjective and I just want to remind everybody unfortunately that uh this is a process it's not an easy process it's a hard process and I think what you should demand from your city is a clear uh prise info on how to navigate the process um and I think that's what we're trying to do we're trying to clarify some of that some of that is anybody who's 30 30 you know deemed 30 and Below those should fly through without a review basically okay but everybody has to do from the damage has to do well I have a question on that when we get to that but um you have to do an sisd packet to move forward to to document that stuff so that's not going to go away um but um I I I share what you're saying and I feel the same way about my home and um I I'm I'm only hoping we can continue to do better and I'm sure we will thank you any others Julie fiser if you please state your name and address for the record hi there Julie fiser uh 471 85th Avenue CP Beach um I'm also a small business owner we moved down here um at the end of May to live our beach dream we bought a little guitar shop over here right around the corner um bought our little beach house got our little golf cart and then we got damaged four months later so while I currently reside on 85th Avenue I really live in a very small camper in my driveway for the past 90 days um I'm not here to complain I want to thank you all I see you I hear you you guys have been working so hard on all of our behalf um I do have a couple of questions um uh and a thought that I would like to share with you um I just came back from Scotland um I'm right and I was at a a climate change Summit and uh the fact that I've been um you know twice hit by a hurricane made me a rock star while I was there which is not what I want to be famous for by the way um but there was a lot ofers ation around the future and what we're building for for the future and so a couple of questions that I had and just a thought is I know that we're trying to figure out how to get people in their homes because we're all in crisis mode and we're all exhausted all of us we're all exhausted I don't like living in a camper it's terrible I thought van life was for me turns out it's really not for me at all um my question is is as we start thinking about look back no look back one year not one year climate change is real we are sitting on the edge of it in our current evidence of never getting hit by a hurricane to be getting hit by two hurricanes back to back so when we think about whatever the and this is my question as we think about one year look back versus no look back in August some of us many of us are not going to be done with our rebuild we're not going to have our permits closed out like that's the reality and now we're going to be back in hurricane season so hopefully we'll be able to close that out but we need to think about what happens when the next hurricane comes so whatever decisions we make right now I just want to urge us to not just think about and I think you made a very eloquent point of it's not just we're operating in crisis mode right now but it's also do are we gonna have to come back and change this again in August or if I'm right at that 50% Mark and I got my rot because now I have to count for my roof because I didn't think I was going to have to account for my roof but now I have to account for my roof so I'm getting close I'm getting really really close on this but then what happens when another storm comes in August that so then what happens if you have a one-year look back if you have a two-year look back if you have a no no look back how are we thinking long term and that that's really where my concern is is because I'm passionate about this community I'm excited to be here I want to grow my business which is failing right because there's nobody on the beach um this is hard this is hard on all of us and I've also lost the vehicle I've done all I've lost it all like I'm with everybody else on the speech and as we think about hardening as we think about building infrastructure as we think about potential new hurricanes that are coming what could that mean for the future thank you ly savoya if you'll please state your name and address for the record y sorry linya 7623 Gulf Boulevard St b beach and I had a question on the the what is it called it was the grant that you were I think you're referring to it was the hazard mitigation grant program where they're giving out grants the the state is giving out grants to elevate your house is that the same grant that was being referred to earlier so there's more than one and I don't want to speak for the mayor but it's not we're not having I I'll address it after you're done but I don't want to take your time oh okay so that was my question on that and then um Des Santa said we could also uh apply for tax rebates on our property tax I don't know when we're supposed to do that I couldn't find that information and then my other question might have been answered oh is there a timeline to complete any restoration there any timelines that we should know about so I think what would probably more beneficial for you is if you send either your commissioner whichever District you're in an email with these questions and then we can actually respond to those because some of them are not readly available resources like a link to that but for the for the tax assessor you can look on the uh penel County Tax Assessor's website they posted a video and additional information on how you can file for a rebate um if you email commissioner res Nikki she'll be able to send you a link to that um uh to that to that grant program um but really for anything specifically like that it's just easier if you email us and then we can generally respond within 24 hours with what the answer is all right thank you sometimes it takes research to it may not be something readily available okay and mayor can I just say because I don't want I wouldn't want you or the public to think this is a grant for a specific City so I was talking about grants that were available in Miami Beach so it's not um the state is going to it hasn't been official yet there's not an application process for the states and I forgot what it's called right now maybe um Francis I don't know if you know what is Elevate um they just posted this last week but there there's no application for it yet so rise Florida I I forgot the name of it um it's not available yet FEMA has a 30,000 up up to a 30,000 Grant um again I think some of those have closed um because um they do have to request for more funding from Congress but that's not one that we manage here in the city okay but I can talk to you later thank you John kurman please if you'll please state your name and address for the record John kman and formal addresses and beond a Way South ums so um you know there's the we were concerned about our um Insurance rating or that was a concern that Mr uh commissioner M Holland was Raising and nobody's saying I think to throw out insurance um but I did study the the the the rating system coordinators manual and the recent addendum 2021 and when you get into this whole thing about the substantial uh damage letters really as I mentioned in an earlier meeting it really comes down to I believe the state was supposed to come out out and reach out to the various communities previously and have the communities put together a team that identified the businesses and residents the structures there were high risk of floods and and already know ahead of time what be ready to actually send out and say hey because of the flood we believe you're this much you have these kind of expenses and you know there the steps are in the addendum it only came out in 2021 this addendum uh also you heard someone mention about option one and option two so this is in the Desk Reference the S the p758 so option one was that these letters could be proactively inspect the building soon after the event and this is what Tidal Basin is running around doing but I as I understand it they do it a lot from outside so I don't understand how they could be using the official you know SD tool the the desktop you know the the the software that would really go into a detailed analysis that would use for instance an ICC which is where you then get your your special money and then the second choice is you can notify owners of the requirements to get permits and then wait for the property owners who actually apply for permits and then make determinations F the normal permit review which I guess is more what Treasure Island has opted to do um and and so this is the SD software where you know I think people have seen those quotes where you get your your your quote from the flood nfip you know when you get your your flood estimate so I'm still not totally following why someone wouldn't use you know cut and paste from that and try to then figure out what they need because how is title base is never going to give you the level of detail you need um what I'm afraid of is we're going to get beat up for and this is something the state also still hasn't fixed the state still has the wrong maps for a lot of our city and has in their official map some of our homes sitting out in the middle of the water so these are the things that FEA looks at and so the state needs to really fix the flood maps on the State website and it's having a lot of our structures you know misplaced and that's the kind of stuff that the St the state needs to fix um and then also here's the categories and the ratings of the of the cities and you know we're in the there's only five cities that have higher ratings than us so we we have room you know to slide um I think without saying we want to get rid of you know Insurance all together and we want you know we want to keep the communities together and keep people you know living in our town thank you sir okay so we have a quick update just general update including permits good evening Denise Sanderson community development director so I wanted to run through a number of updates and and I hope some of you some of the questions are answered in some of this update um and I'm happy to talk with you after this meeting as well so we're going to touch on uh substantial damage determinations talk about some um permitting policy information as it relates to single family and duplex properties multi-story structures and multi-tenant Commercial structures talk about um numerous changes and updates to the website a permit status update uh a new Mission request we have for additional temporary staffing and then a brief debris update so substantial damage determinations to date we've issued 1389 determinations this is up substantially from even last week's um December 10th update we're getting a lot of data rapidly from tidle Basin some challenges with the data that's being transferred over a lot of duplicates uh things like that so um though we're getting a lot of Transmissions it's causing a lot of work so but uh the 1389 represents the number of posted letters that we have sent out as of today but we have received additional information so as you can see for those that are determined to be substantially damaged and non-s substantially damaged it's broken out there by commercial and residential structure um let me back up if I will um if I may we'll talk a little bit um here about substantial damage determination so a lot of questions have come in about substantial damage determinations how they're how they're assessed how the numbers are configured it's been discussed here briefly tonight as well please please please look at the website you'll get a decent understanding now and we'll talk through that in the website updates but as it relates to letters of non-substantial damage this has also been a question that's been asked in in some cases we are seeing non-substantial damage calculations when homeowners are telling us that zero damage has occurred and how do we address that going forward so I just wanted to share with you a statement if I could from our female repres representative about recommendations for moving forward so um according to FEMA the city must validate that no damage was received during the events and that no work was completed before altering the substantial damage determination or non-substantial in that case it's best to complete this with an inspection of the Interior so as you know substantial damage assessments largely have been conducted in the countywide effort as observations to exteriors of structure they did gain entry um at at various times um we have done a few of those though we suspended that activity uh we did do some of those interior inspections what this is really referring to is going in and assessing that zero damage occurred following a storm and we can write that adjust that non-substantial determination down to a zero damage and I understand why some people are asking this if they're planning to sell their home they want to be able to show evidence that no damage of any kind occurred at that home I would um suggest to you that we can Gear Up that activity after January 1 we do have through one of our contract providing um service firms an ability to to bring in more inspectors and we can dedicate them exclusively to that activity it's part of our appeals process so getting on to website updates um the best place to start is go to the homepage um you'll see a popup screen that says click here or you can scroll to the bottom and and click off the tile that says hurricane rebuild and repair information that truly is the best page to begin a navigation to gather the information that you um you may have questions about on the left yes sir I apologize but before we go too far sure um so on the reinspection so we wouldn't ask tial Basin to do those or require them to do it since they were the ones that was paid were paid and um maybe took well I I I don't want to say they took shortcuts but there's a lot of as you're well aware as so am I there's a lot of uh questions out there about how they came about their numbers so we're going to use either staff or somebody else to do these inspections contracted inspection firm will Dan cap Florida one of those firms that we have under contract currently title and they will go out and do specific interior inspections to confirm no damage but we did inquire with Title Basin about the ability to reinspect entire neighborhoods reassess entire neighborhoods as an example or to do those types of inspections it is not within their scope of work so their scope of work is defined under I I believe it is in section seven of the Desk Reference it's a rapid assessment um of a larg scale disaster is really at their scope of work and it is this broad subjective assessment process that they're utilizing so um as you're well aware you know I'm getting a lot of these and you're getting them as well uh particularly from Vena Delmore y um so there's a plan to do something shortly after the beginning of the year to address these issues it because it requires access to the interior of the home we don't feel like this is a good time to begin that process and people are in enjoying the holidays perhaps not even in the area things like that we need to be able to gain access to the inter inter of the home in order to do that required inspection so how does that impact the 60-day clock or does that not really apply on an erroneous or what might be proved as to be an erroneous assessment right so we are asking if you've received a substantial damage determination that you let us know what your plan is within a 60-day window on an appeal a request an extension or appeal that uh substantial damage determination you have both those options within that 60-day window if you choose to uh file an extension we are not putting an end date on that and that's really because we understand the potential funding sources may be many many months down the road and some people may choose to wait to see what kind of grant opportunities or funding opportunities may become available through Hazard mitigation grant program or Swift Current which I'll talk about in a moment so so um it's really FEMA requires an acknowledgment of substantial damage determination and that's what that appeals process or exension of that appeals process really does so on the non SD homes uh can you give me a an estimate of when there will be a public comment or when this will be addressed on the city website so maybe I can point them there sure uh we can get that information up uh probably next week we'll maybe add an additional uh navigation here to the leftand sidebar separating that from a a substantial damage note here will say how to handle non-substantial um you know questions about non-substantial damage and how to get adjustments things like that I haven't worked through that entirely but I'm sure we can get that up by the end of the year so and will there be so currently what we're discussing asside from legit or or or legitimately assessed SD homes and homes assessed as non SD but not zero right uh so those are the ones that we have spent at least in the last week speaking a lot about but I have also receive questions on let's say you're at at 25 but you think you should be at 10 and I'm almost embarrassed to bring this up because there's so many more critical things to be dealt with but these are questions I get asked and that's why I get paid to do this job to ask a question for the people in my district is is that something that um is going to get considered and I'm not expecting that tomorrow I'm just curious is that on the radar even yet because it's on mine I understand why everyone is asking those questions I would certainly be wondering as well I put POS that question to Florida Division of Emergency Management and to to FEMA Region 4 representatives and they assured me of the following they said to me that the content of the substantial of a non-substantial damage letter in terms of the calculation of assessed damage has they have no interest in that their interest is whether it's non-substantial or substantial has no impact on flood insurance rate their flood insurance policy rating if you will has zero impact on that whatsoever if a homeowner wishes to have an interior inspection through an appeals process that of non-substantial we can work that in our highest priority quite frankly is going to be pursuing those that believe they have 0% damage because I certainly understand how homeowners wish to be able to convey to a realtor or others if they choose to sell that they have 0% damage showing no flooding occurred in the home because they do have to disclose that through a real estate process I we would entertain any of those other requests and work those in as appropriate we certainly wish to deliver the best that we can so that people ultimately have the best information uh but Staffing re resources and time you're are always going to be a challenge as you know thank you and I apologize for cutting you off in the middle but and I may have more questions on that after you finish but I I did want to get to that thank you so much I have that same question whether there was a cap on that or not for the zero to the 30 because the 30 we're we are not reviewing those SD packages we're just issuing permits correct that's still my understanding of that correct yes it is so those uh non SD letters and I was it'll go with SD letters as well they stay with the property and the property card here in the city they do stay um attached as a as a well it's not really a property C but yes they stay attached as a permit we will close them out once we close that file so it will not be visible on the website that sisd permit will get closed either through the appeals process or otherwise or once we issue a permit we end up closing that sisd permit at least that's the process I hope that we're following that's our intention um but uh so those will not be visible going forward again once we've issued permit on those they remain open to notify the homeowner and then on as I said once we get through the permitting process the intention is to close that when the excuse me when a permit is closed a repair permit is closed we'll close the sisd letter so this is not true in my neighborhood but it's just a question I have but um so if somebody has a you know 19% damage and it's nothing that needs to get a permit for are they do they need to fill out anything is there anything that they need to do the substantial damage letters and the non-substantial Damage letters they do not require that a homeowner get a permit and what I mean by that is if they are doing work that requires a permit they of course must get a permit but it does not require that they repair their home okay so there's no requirement for that No SI SD packet they could do whatever they want with it they okay yes just wanted to be clear on that thank you then how do they close because you said that they will close but what will trigger the close like when like say if they did have a damage like commissioner Robinson is saying or that they could repair what a fence or something I don't well you know repair fence not putting in a new fence um when when will the city close it are we talking about the sisd sisd yes so the sisd technically a permit right that's open because you're saying it won't be visible in the future right so but what will close it are we expiring them all at some point uh truly haven't gotten through that thought process but the the intention the process right now is if you go through a repair permit process and attached to your property card is the sisd permit once you close the repair permit we'll be closing the sisd permit as well that one I get but I'm talking about if you don't have to address anything right well honestly I I don't know just put a note down yeah get I'll put that one in the parking lot and we'll get back to that one I haven't thought that through okay just so U as you can see on well I don't know how well you can see this here with this snip but we have an all new navigation um uh on the left hand sidebar of this hurricane rebuild and repair information this is back really quick I just want to clarify for the commission because I don't want to these are public record no matter what regardless of whether they're someone can request want to make sure you didn't think no that that I I would understand but you know someone who's looking at your property is going to see if there's you know permits or you know what has the you know what's outan and they'll be able to come in and ask but I mean someone could say hey I want to request I'll anything that has to do with this property obviously it's a public no yeah I don't mean close it as not public but I mean not Beyond as an open permit on a property we will work through that process think'll be okay so on the left- hand sideb this is really now your new navigation for Hurricane rebuild and repair information um if you're unable to read that uh it is uh the landing page there hurricane rebuild and repair followed by the 2025 uh sisd review package substantial damage determination and appeals process the permit tracking dashboard the substantial damage visual flow chart presentations from recent meetings this presentation will be posted probably tomorrow or or Monday um and then housing recovery support where is excuse me where is the uh for story as far as that is that on here it's in this presentation we haven't put it in the website just yet but that will go in there working with Mark is the best place to to put that and we may in fact put that in a another navigation tool on the on the left so you'll see that here in table form in just a moment so in the hurricane rebuild and repair information landing page is updates to post storms specific FAQs I'd like to thank commissioner Robinson for working with us on this to help clarify the many questions we get about wet wiring and whether or not wiring needs to be replaced all the way back to the panel it does not as you can see um you you have some choices there you can elevate your uh receptacles to get above the flood line um that's one way to handle wet wiring you can um take that um replace the wiring and and put a junction Bo box in above the wet wiring um and not having to take it all the way back to the panel um it's important to note that if you do have cloth wiring in your home that is a code requirement and all cloth wiring must be replaced throughout the entire structure so the 2024 2025 SI SD review package this of course is formerly known as the FEMA packet um it is an all new form with lots and lots of instructions lots of detail in there um and we put this up as entire form both fillable and printed versions it is 17 pages in length and so for this reason we also separated all of the sections and created additional form so if you need to reprint something you can just reprint a worksheet or or part you know the the the section that has the fillables in there I'm trying to make it a little bit user friendly lots of Q&A kind of stuff in there that that have come up out over the course of the last couple of months so I think it's a lot clearer to work with um as we move forward and the information about exclusions has been removed from this we were aware of it just before this went to publication and posted on Monday so we removed those exceptions that Brandon spoke about earlier so it does reflect the newest guidance from FMA on the interpretation so also on this web page is um additional forms links to the building permit application notice of commencement and agent authorization uh that's um hosted on that web page those are the most commonly needed for for permit application and related and links to acceptable labor rates inspection information Florida product approval Search tool so those are the most widely used or widely requested bits of information you can also find a link on there to take you for requested inspections or other permitting forms that you may need um that that aren't hosted there again when it comes to substantial damage determination and appeals process this web page has also been up updated it includes information about how the determination was made what that assessment process is and what it is not it is not a detailed estimate of repair costs um that comes from your sisd or from your your application your permit application itself it gives you information about how to appeal and gives you an extension request forms for letters that go out this week we did make a change to our substantial damage letters um and non-substantial damage letters in the substantial damage letter as an example you've always been able to see a permit and number in the upper leftand corner you're also going to see the access code for filing an appeal we've posted at the top of that letter you know in a box you can't appeal this and and this is how you do so uh so that people understand what we what we came to realize is that even though that information was in the letter it was on it was on the second page near the end and a lot of people were in shock as they're reading the letter and perhaps not getting all the way through there so we're putting that information near the top of the letter so that they understand there certainly is an appeal process well we also talked about this before and before it was stated that there were going to be no extensions on it it was 60 days and 60 days only 60 days to file an appeal or request to extend yeah we really what freem really wants really wants to see is that people are acknowledging that they've received this letter and that they're putting together a plan of action in some form whether it's to appeal or comply become compliant what have you so that's really um what's most important to us is that we have a method of communication for those that have been determined to be substantially damaged through the assessment process as it relates this is the other update that's been made to the housing web page this week and it was a question that been brought up today it's about grants so the Florida Division of Emergency Management is applying for federal funds they are opening up and within the next week week or so I'm told it's a rumor I haven't seen anything officially that the applications will be opening soon and again this is with fdem um if you can scan that code um certainly go to the website that you can see the flyer on there and scan the code sign up for updates you'll be notified when that application will open at the state and you can begin the process of applying for Grant funds to help you either repair or to elevate your home um I don't know all the details of what these grants may be how much money none of that information is yet available to us because the monies have not been applied for yet from the state to the feds and therefore not allocated to the state but get your application in get in line so that when funds are available you'll be first reviewed so M the program is called Elevate Florida that's what I was trying to remember so for the resident who's sitting back there that's the one that I was talking about yeah and you'll see the Elevate Florida flyer has been posted on the website this week as well so this gets into the permitting process um how we're Expediting permits how we how we're approaching this again Our obligation is to remain compliant with FEMA guidelines um but also to try to move these permits as quickly as we can uh with information that we need uh to be able to substantiate our decision-making process so firstly we'll talk about single family and duplex properties wish to um point out the footnote there there is a speci special exception for historic designated properties but if you are sub um received it we've reviewed this um recently but for the benefit of of some that are inquiring today um if you've received your letter and the calculated damage is less than 30% if you've submitted a a sisd packet already great but we no longer need to look at those so great that we have it what we won't be spending our time looking at those we'll just simply review the permit and approve that as quickly as we can if it's over 30 point if it's 30.1 to 49.9 we are still requiring the sisd packet excuse me can you go back a minute to the first one because I'm not sure I understand the aster portion of that and the not required not so the sisd review the sisd review is not required if it's under 30% calculated damage okay and but then it says special exemption requires no so neither one of those require I'm sorry I've just adding historic designation to that I'll clean that up before we post it but that okay so both or both apply both apply do not require the um packet that is correct thank you so I will add that I'll amend that footnote to clear that up so just to clarify if you had a foot of water and the only thing you're doing is flooring and drywall and that's less than 30% and you have a non-substantial damage leather all you need to do is just apply for the drywall permit for example not the full SD package that's correct okay it's just a regular building per application okay I know we had this conversation at the last commission meeting what if you received a substantial damage letter yet your contractor and your female letter from the county state that you actually are under 30% what do we do in those situations so we address that I think down below so if you have not received your substantial damage letter and it's down here in the fourth line if you will so therefore we don't have a calculated Dam a calculated percentage from that letter we will look at the sisd and if it's under 30% will issue before that letter is received because we are presuming that you'll be successful on appeal okay so if you get a substantial damage assessment which we know can occur so I mean you've got a 50 point something they've mentioned it's quite likely the reality is somewhere under 30% or it could be likely especially if an AC an actual cash value appraisal companies any of this so we are presuming that you're going to be successful on appeal and we're uh taking those forward as a permitted item okay so I'm just restating that because I think it's really important a lot of a lot of what we read online Next Door Facebook and so on people are saying I can't do anything until I get this lettera that is not correct not the case right in some cases it is but not in all cases yeah but at the very least you can submit your sisd package if nothing else and if you're under 30% then you're going to be able to move forward anyway that's correct okay so if you have not received your letter please put in your permits complete the package submit that get that in as quickly as possible so we can start processing these you do not have to wait for the letter to start the process that's correct so um just jumping up one line there again if you're over 50% on your calculated damage then we are requiring that sisd and there is that appeals process um we'll look at those simultaneously and issue permit um and those that review of appeal typically does not take very long what we typically need is either the actual cash value appraisal to bring that number down that percentage down or photos photos are extraordinarily helpful for us and hopefully uh everybody was able to take photos immediately following the storm to document flood damage or flood levels and then finally that last line there is if you have not received the letter the calculated damage again is unknown uh that we reviewed the sisd package but it yields damage over 30% but less than than 50 what have you then um we do need to wait for that substantial substantial damage calculation to come through I'm just to to tick and tie all those things together now on the substantial damage calculation because I did receive backup on mine I requested that can you explain to me why it has in there um actually has my computed actual cash value in it in the substantial damage letter no in the calculation that they used it has my computed actual cash value which is at 305,000 but then it lists my appraisal value from the which to me is indicated wrong on here to begin with because it says it says it's a market appraisal instead of the tax assessed value of 162 which is my fee evaluation but the actual data doc has on it a computed actual cash value so I spent $500 to get that elsewhere and it's within it's it it's within thousands of dollars of what my independent appraiser came up with but this was done and is for free and the city has it so I cannot truly tell you where Title Basin is getting the actual cash value it's certainly not anything we're providing we're not transmitting that information so if they're pulling that down from some other source of data they have not disclosed that to us so I would presume that they might find it on the Property Appraiser's website but this is the first that somebody's brought that specifically to my it has replacement uh it looks like it's it's a Craftsman Book value on here it's got my um actual uh it does have my square footage on here I did that it has the depreciation at 24.2% all the calculations work out and the computed assessed value is 305 so so with that said you know I would be I I would be half of that not half of 162 so I would be nowhere near 63.9% which I am going to appeal but like I said you know and it goes with everybody else in this community if tital Basin has this info why are we doing this why can't we just look at it and pass that through and and PE and residents get in their homes quicker they don't pay $500 or $650 or whatever it is to get get one it's a question that needs to be asked at Title Basin or whoever's doing this inputting so I will certainly ask that question this is the first that that it's been brought to my attention there are 142 columns to look at as I'm sure you've seen if you've requested there's a lot of them that don't have info in them and a lot of them and even with that being said on all this half of it's wrong but nevertheless it still has my computed actual cash value on it which is substantially higher almost double than what the FEMA value play is on there and yet Title Basin as you know is using the structure value posted in the Property Appraiser's website um so what the Desk Reference does reference is private Market appraisal as an alternative means to establish structure value which is based on cash actual cash value which is that's what this right what the question then of Title Basin is what private Market appraisal did you utilize to determine that actual cash value I I will certainly inquire to try to get that answer um it's first that question's been brought to me because they are certainly not conducting private Market appraisals as you know so they must be getting it from some Source I don't know what that might well like I said ironically it's it's within a thousands of do you know a few thousand dollars of what mine came back with and I've looked at other people's as well and it's the same thing there that's phenomenal and the strange thing and the strange thing is their columns and their column numbers are not matching um the same on everybody's which is strange yes we know almost every transmission we get has different column data setup which is something that perplexes all of us which is why uh there's a significant Staffing effort to review data when it's received uh I no rhy or Reason at times I agree if if you could find out the answer to that I would be I'd be appreciative of that I certainly will attempt to do so multi-story structure so this is an important message for particularly for condominium associations so how we're approaching this is if your four stories above we talked briefly about this last week as well but if your four stories and above where there's a presumption of non-substantial damage and less than 30% damage just simply doing the math and this was primarily a flooding event we know that ground floor lowest living level if it's on the first floor that was the level that was flooded um it's still the way that a FEMA uh conducts the assessments it's on structures not on a per unit so um we've had this question quite often from from condo owners it's not on a per unit basis that the assessment is conducted it's on the entire structure so we're looking at it from a structure perspective and how we determine whether or not an sisd package is going to be required so uh for stories and above it's a presumption of non-substantial damage and a presumption that it's less than 30% uh damage level goes straight to permit no sisd packages required for any of those condominium owners um if it's three stories and above again it's a presumption of non non-substantial damage what we are asking for is that we get photos of the roof or evidence that there is no water incursion on upper level floor um because that will substantiate that for for certain that it is non-s substantially damaged um and and if there is roof leak then we may need to require some sisd packages but those I think will be rare exceptions and for the most part it's going to be going straight to permit for all units within a three-story structure for two stories um it gets a little more challenging so again we're going to request photos of uh roof and exterior sides um so that we can see that there's no structural damage no roof incursion of water um we quite likely are going to require the sisd package for all roofs the recommendation for condominium associations for one two and three story structures is please on behalf of your owners get an actual cash value appraisal of the entire structure so that you can maximize the allowable damage repair cost for your unit owners for um those on story structures it could be potentially up to 100% damage as we know it's um we're following therefore the same process as for single family structures an sisd package is going to be required for single unit or single story condominium buildings again this is on a structure byst structure basis this also is the same for how we're addressing mixed use hotels Etc uh so it's the same process right now what we are going through is pulling data we have data from the property appraiser website we've identified 92 condominium associations we're going through and identifying the lowest living level if it's a a lowest living level of level two then we know that's a conforming structure and no damage assessment process is is a part of our discussion if it is lowest living level of one then we're identifying the structure uh the total number of units within those structures and we're going to be communicating with those condominium associations about our recommendations as to how to move forward and to work with their property owners so we're doing that right now and we should have that data um completed uh by Monday and we'll begin to communicate with those Association owners about best best way to move forward for their on behalf of their owners what about their common areas this the way that the structure the structure value is going to be looking at the entirety of the building and and we're just because we're in large part not looking at it on a condo unit by condo unit basis then the common areas as well non-s substantially damaged they can move to permit subject to all of these same requirements for multi-tenant commercial buildings this is proven to be um a little bit challenging and complex I think for for certainly for owners or property managers of commercial structures as well as for the the leasehold tenants so you likely know that um for commercial structures the uh TP what is typical is they lease a white box space and tenant Improvement they may give tenant Improvement allowance but very typically that leasehold tenant is responsible for all improvements to the interior so that makes it a little bit challenging when we're talking about repair costs and repair estimates um so we've come up with this policy to try to assist and I've been talking to a commercial a couple of commercial property owners about how we're moving forward with this so uh commercial property owners um again similar in some ways to to the previous slide um if we've got a letter of calculated damage then we follow the same practice um as single family and duplex properties you know we run off the calculated damage and go forth but for the most part tidle Basin did not conduct any assessments of those kinds of structures so because it's largely an unknown calculation there is we are going to require an sisd package however not for every unit what we're asking our commercial property owners to do is to work with their tenants and get at least a couple of units to do estimates and then we'll run the calculation on a per square foot basis and document our our reasoning for making that determination so FEMA's guidance to us is whatever your policy is implement it you know do ment it um un you know substantiate your process and be consistent with how you apply it across the marketplace so this is how we're going to apply it for those commercial structures so things strip plazas and the like um one of the commercial property owners that I met with uh yesterday he's got several tenants that he knows are not going to return he's returning those to white box condition with the operating bathroom he's got other tenants who do plan to to reopen so he's going to get a mix of estimates on repair costs and we're going to run those calculations in communication with the building official we're really comfortable with white box um condition repairs as part of that estimate so um some questions have been raised about how uh restaurants are viewed because there's typically a lot of equipment the caveat with restaurants is by and large virtually all of their equipment is plug in not built in and therefore is not sub subject to the calculation anyway much like your home so permit status so these are the latest numbers as about uh 12:00 today um you'll see some significant shifts here in the pie chart so um to date we have received not not yet in review um only this is 101 to current so where we are as of today is we have 71 that have been received but haven't entered the re review process and what that means is we um our permit technicians need to validate that the the permit is complete notorized and sign and that the required documentation has been submitted with that permit application they check contractor licenses and registrations Etc um and then release them into the review process as of today we have 521 in active review status 342 have been denied or reviewed with corrections needed and communicated to the property owner and or contractor 330 uh excuse me yes 330 of those are approved conditionally some interesting bits of about this one that I'll share in just a moment and we have issued a total of 432 we are averaging this week 37 permits per day um we had a high count on what is today Friday on Thursday I think of 72 permits or maybe that was Wednesday it's all kind of running together uh so we were able to issue 72 permits in one day um but the the getting back to this 330 conditionally approved shockingly what we're seeing is we've got either a lot of permit applications in that have exceeded the 30% threshold and we're waiting on the SD determinations or more commonly shockingly is we've got a lot of SD determinations and no active permits um or or yes so we've got FEMA packets in uh it's been the FEMA packets been in review the SD determination is in it's a mismatch oddly of people submitting permits and people getting SD determinations it's this weird mismatch that has been a surprise to us we are certainly working through these um quite diligently and with the plans examiners getting those approved um rather quickly so a lot of movement here I'm happy to say that 1691 permit applications have been received to date but again all of them are in some part of the process or have been issued up the 521 that are in review yes how many people work in the review process uh I'd have to pull that up but I think there's a um I don't want to spitball that out of the top of my head but in plans examiners we've got something like 11 of them and doing the review and plans examination are they ad meable to overtime so we've made the inquiry of our of our contracted Personnel uh I know Title Basin allows for overtime and Joe Payne Inc does as well and we've made that inquiry of will will Dan and cap Florida to to find out if they're amenable as well and when will we know that I don't know Adam actually Adam puer is working that side of it for us um he's taking lead on project management with those project managers uh to monitor quantity of delivery and so on okay thank you you're welcome so I do have another Emergency Operations Mission requesting for additional temporary staffing because Title Basin is not doing a lot of those commercial structures as I mentioned those strip plazas and the like we have requested 20 uh damage assessment Personnel to focus exclusively on Commercial structures um they should be able to do those rather quickly and addition 30 data entry Personnel it's clear that we're not going to be able to host them here on site so we'll have to find an alternative site from which they can operate but um that has that request has been elevated to the state and the RFQ has gone out so we should be able the SE deployment shortly after the beginning of the year um the owner Builder technical support this has been discussed as you know on numerous occasions difficulty in filling out the sisd packet or the permit applications we've requested 10 additional support Personnel city manager and I have also been talking about doing a call for volunteers to work with them so that we can get those applications put in a lot of the denials and and Corrections needed are related to that either information that's not fully clear or missing documentation or information so we want to make sure that we're providing that kind of support to those who who are submitting in particular owner Builder permit applications what is the timeline on that again um that's out to RFQ uh we do we are aware that we have at least one firm that's going to be bidding on that at the state it's been expressed to us so I'm hopeful that we'll be able to launch that right after the first of the year and the city manager and I will probably have that call for volunteers as well to coincide with that and then we'll conduct the train and make sure that um we can find a location that's suitable whether that's at the the community center or uh someplace else here in the city where Personnel can meet with or maybe meet on site with owners in some cases to assist them with the process nor how many people have we brought on in the last 60 days 25 okay so again I just want to make sure that the public understands and gets clear understanding of what's happening because of the information that gets put out there right I'm not taking it personally when you say that no one's doing anything when you post that next door in Facebook we understand right we understand because we're in the same boat with our home's damage our car is gone and without permits we've brought on 25 people in last 60 days when for a building department that generally has four people working there we're bringing on an addition 50 people right so we're spending every ounce of resource that we have to get people back into their homes as quickly as possible is it moving as quickly as we want as you would like I don't think so it's not it can't move as quickly as we all want and you know but this is what we've committed to is to do all the things that we can and you know we've actually received quite a few emails from different HOA presidents associations with some excellent suggestions and we're implementing those now we're not posting about them a daily basis we've implement this and this maybe we should right but if you see something that we're where you see that there's a you know a break in the process or something is not working as well as you think and you have ideas on how we can improve it right we're not throwing those emails away and those phone calls away we actually forward every single and city manager she's nodding her head because she gets those emails for me on a daily basis and probably from the other Commissioners as well and and theise as well and I get emails from theise at midnight um and you know we are making those so again if you have suggestions we're open to them and we want to make sure that we improve it as quickly as possible for everyone to get everyone back home as quickly as possible and safely right um but again so I want you to I'm calling this out because I I want you to see what we're actually doing right we've brought on it we've Sixx we have six times as many people as we normally have in a small building department for City our size and we're doubling that number twice over so we're bringing we're looking to bring on additional 50 people as soon as we can get our hands on them right um thank you Denise you're very welcome uh additionally we've requested some additional administrative support really some technical writers to to help us with policy documentation in the development of a of the substantial damage assessment plan which is u a best practice requirement certainly going to help us in the long term um it's going to be necessary as part of uh what will most assuredly be an audit with FEMA uh probably two to three years out as we know so getting everything documented into this this is a a template provided by FEMA the document itself will probably end up being a couple hundred pages long at upon its conclusion so certainly uh you know we're uh existing staff including the the additional staff that we brought on we're stretched pretty thin when it comes to getting all of these things in writing that need to be um documented and so additional administrative support to help us out with that um another uh discussion that we had and will likely go in as a mission request is a lean 6 Sigma expert to come in and evaluate process and to really look at that as an independent um Observer and expert of process Improvement you know I've used this analogy before it's a little bit like building the race cars are already going going around the track it's never a position that you want to be in when you're building a system but getting somebody to come in here and to really evaluate and become familiar with that process and make process Improvement suggestions is Def definitely needed and so that mission request is being Wordsmith right now we'll get that one sent up as well to get some some help in here just to get that independent third party to to take a look at what we're doing and make some suggestions for process Improvement um and it's referred to as lean Six Sigma generally Denise one last question on on that particular one on temporary um staff um when you met with um I'm assuming this was talk with the FEMA State and I I spoke with uh the representative I think it was last week and we were talking about this and knowing that it was a possibility for the city to request for more uh temporary staff but in the conversation we also talked about um whether the city could have more than one building official and when I spoke with her she did say that many other other cities do have more than one um was that a discussion that was also having and again this is just to help you know spread the amount of work that we have right I know um in talking with our building official it's not what our current building official would want but in again to help with the amount of permits whether it's you know splitting commercial from residential is that something that was also discussed or thrown around for a while maybe if um we were planning on adding another building official so this is part of an agenda item I think that that city manager I know it's salary but I just wanted to know about this if unless you're going to bring it up later okay but I I think it I don't know if it's being addressed specifically would you like me to handle this question okay so we have posed the question we've asked the question I believe of the law firm as well just to confirm and yes we can have licensed build more than one licensed building official it's important to note that we do have um I think there are three in our roster that are currently working as plans examiners that also carry building official license there um we have many in in the additional Staffing that we brought on they have plans examination inspector licenses and building official licenses so we can use those in multiple capacities and in fact we have a second building official coming in next week um our our the city's official building official Luke is taking a planned vacation next week um a building official who has done a lot of work in this community as an inspector is already on site an acting building official we can have more than one building official my understanding is that there is only one official building official but others who carry that license can operate here as well and and certainly issue permits and stamp permits but the official building official FEA is um going to be looking for the Luke's signature on all those SD letters he has to make those determinations if you will and that comes from our designated building official which as you know is Luke Curtis at this time so then in other sorry um in other in the other reviews someone else can sign off on a perent it doesn't have to be luke so correctly doing that yes we are it's not just one person that because again people say we got to wait for one person to approve all these that's not true okay yeah it was true it's not any longer correct thank you MH Becky did I miss anything in that or no you were right okay thank you anything else about this one I don't know commissioner I know I would jump but I don't know if that's no it was kind of the same same I just wanted to make sure when Luke goes on vacation somebody fills in with them they can sign off as well we have we have two building officials here next week that are licensed one is the designated city building official for the week so just briefly as we've been talking about this before we've got this deadline of December 23rd so we're great shape I believe we finished all of the residential debris pickup and and um I was not able to talk with with our um code enforcement manager today but in a conversation I had yesterday we were down to six commercial properties that have um not yet complied but that were working toward compliance to get their debris picked up by the deadline so um maybe 23rd maybe just after the 23rd but I know that they're working toward getting that that commercial debris picked up and we're in pretty good shape Denise one more thing on that commercial I'm sorry I know we're both probably my next the same um if it's in the RightWay and I can't remember the street and um and maybe it's been picked up because I haven't been by the school again in a little while if if there's debris that's in the rideway but it's in front of a commercial property and I know you've got the commercial property saying because they've told me that's not ours we didn't put that other people are dumping there did are we going ahead and picking that up anyways or are we letting code enforcement process kind of determine I'm going to defer to the city manager because I've been buried in permitting instead of Code Enforcement so I'm going to defer on that one ju I I actually don't know I would want to know the property specific because we have at a couple unique situation on the street just north of G Beach's elementary school so I forgot the number so if we can send the city manager an email with a specific address then we can the answer on that yeah it's just that one yeah but I mean again it's just for the process whether we're saying after the 23rd it everybody else just has to go through the process code enforcement we've already started code enforcement that's why we're as far as we have and if if there's debris in front of a business I'm pretty confident we they are in the code enforcement process so yes sir there there's a property on passag gril way that is in the system I've had that confirmed so how how would how's that going to be handled moving forward they received a I know there was some discussion about it either last meeting or the meeting before um so they've been noticed uh what's next is the city going to actually because I know there was some discussion about the city paying to have it picked up and then they would be charged back but then I got the sense that um there wasn't a real appetite for that so uh the address I'm talking about I believe is 1706 passway and they it's an apartment building that is has basically filled the sidewalk uh is now moving towards the condos to the South and has wrapped around on uh 16 or I'm sorry uh 18th Avenue uh and I personally told the workers that to let the res or the owner know that they need to have that removed and they have been noticed so how's that particular uh property going to get handled you want me to take it okay so the process is that once they receive the official notice which I would want to confirm whether they've received an official notice from the city there's a time frame that they have to remedy it if they do not remedy it we do this is part of our normal process we pick it up okay fines begin at $250 per day they will be noticed of the the bill plus the fines and it'll go to special magistrate so we are tracking all outstanding code enforcement issues to the special magistrate in February because we wanted to give a little extra time for people to comply but if they don't comply we will be taking them to that through the special magistrate process yeah and I think this property is owned by an investor or an investment group or whatever but uh so how like how long is that going to be laying in the street I once again you haven't confirmed it but I have received confirmation from one of your senior lieutenants that they have been noticed so assuming they have been noticed what kind of timeline before the city picks it up because it's a mess I'll say it's days not weeks after days not week days not weeks after the 23rd I have seen it as well and it is okay so you know the one I'm talking about you know what you're talking about okay thank you uh we've talked about this though previously the objective really is compliance so even though there might be fines acre going up to that special magistrate process if they have paid for the invoiced amount the cost of US picking that up or if they agree to do so you know my understanding from policy discussions that we've talked about is that we would recommend to the special magistrate that no fines be aced and I'm good we can move on I appreciate it though thank you very welcome I well I I I apologize I I'm good on debris but I do I do have I want to Circle back to you just on the SD the venad elmar sure um just a couple quick things so there's there's one home you've dealt with it I don't need to need use names or addresses but it's one of the homes that you've heard about and and I don't know for a fact but it is highly likely this this home did receive no damage and it received an SD letter for like 65% I mean these folks have like the highest seaw wall down there they have hurricane shutters they keep the place up and and all that uh they've pretty much done everything you could possibly do on a single level home and they're on already on an elevated lot so I know they have to go through the process they know it I don't think they're happy about that but uh they have to go through the process is it is it a possibility that they will be able to go all the way from 65 to zero or okay okay so that that's good that's good to know and uh I guess the the last thing on SD um appeals let's say this home or any home I've seen some of the communications from you and others you can hire somebody to come in but if if somebody's willing to to do the paperwork themselves and ask the city to come do the inspection can they for the most part avoid expense I know oh yeah it's it's I I have told people it's a pain and it's part of being in the flood insurance program for the betterment of the city that's kind of my my explanation on it but you know people they say well I got to spend a lot of time I got to spend a lot of money I get time side of it and people are going to have to put time going to have to put time into it to to to do the appeal but if somebody truly had an SD letter but they truly had no damage then they should be able to do that appeal at no Co out of pocket cost to them other than the time that it will take to request the appeal and be there for the city's either the city staff or the third party to inspect is that correct that's correct and there's no cost to that so at least currently right through January 14th so they don't have to hire anybody to to to prove that they're right correct correct so what what we've asked for and you've seen my communications is send us photos of the water line in the driveway debris line what have you um those are really good uh photos for us to see if we can clearly tell that there was no water incursion in the line show us you know one of the questions I had was you know I'm on a crawl space it show us the water line at the crawl space show us any evidence that you have that's good enough for us um we'll probably ask for a roof picture as well just to make sure that Milton didn't get you with the wind and we're good to go we can document the file and reverse the determination but if they don't have a uh any photo of water lines because the the particular family that I'm talking about but it's not just an isolated incident uh they're often in Georgia this time of year so they came down after the storms and you know they didn't have any damage but they may or may not have taken photos I don't know the answer to that I'm just asking the question that if they don't have photos they can still get the inspection correct and if it's clear and obvious that the home wasn't damaged they can get get rid of the SD L that's correct so an on-site inspection will suffice okay thank you mhm thank you I do have one comment card if you want to take comments certainly John kman okay never mind thank you all right next we have action items 3A authorize the city manager to adjust the building official salary range thank you mayor and commission if I could have my one slide please um tonight I'm bringing to you for consideration um if as you recall the city went through a comprehensive pay plan uh several months back and the commission directed the city to city manager to implement that pay plan and I have been doing that in accordance with what was presented to you and continue to do so um so that we have a structured compensation plan for the city since then we have made multiple so when I arrived at the city we had a contract building official we still have a contract building official and the actual cost uh for the contract far exceeds the amount I'm requesting this evening uh because of the uh the base amount plus whatever the Contracting agency adds on as their administrative fees we've uh made multiple attempts atts to do a recruitment for this position this is one of the tightest uh labor markets for um the talent and certification we need under the Florida build building code um I reserve uh requesting these types of uh compensation requests above uh General market uh position that the council the commission uh recommends for very rare circumstances and this one is rising to that level and so uh because we have made multiple attempts to recruit for this position I am uh requesting that the council consider authorizing me to move the salary range 7 and a half% above the uh set standard for the city also to move the position uh to an at will under Section 102 of the Personnel reg regulations and what that does is it uh puts this position at a level of one of essentially my executive leadership so department heads and um I would like to uh generally include that position on my leadership team given the Strategic uh work that we're going to be doing not only for the next two years but even what I inherited was a department that was sorely under staffed and um I think strategically LED and so to have someone in that position and part of U my team I think is not a bad idea and this would change their retirement contribution um by moving in that person rules and regulation section from a 10% City contribution to a 12% City contribution you do have a uh resolution in front of you this evening I'm asking that uh you move approval um of the resolution which modifies the personel regulations and authorize me to set the new salary range um as proposed on the slide from 99 to 41 to 58784 it's the end of my report thank you city manager questions comments mayor may I read the title into the record please resolution 2024 31 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of St Pete Beach Florida amending the Personnel rules and regulations for Section 1.02 par andb and providing for an effective date thank you I'll add one comment again just for for the public to get a better understanding of exactly why we even have this resolution before us uh we've been without a building official years yeah so this is this is the this is the person in charge of this department right um when the last gentleman left he was here for a very long time um then we got hit with Co and all the employment um challenges that have come and resulted from that um now we clearly need to have somebody in the building department we have to have a building official so somebody can sign off on all the permits right this position has been we've been subcontracting it out for a very long time um while we're also trying to hire somebody at the same time and we've been unable to hire anyone it's not just us but every city in the State of Florida is dealing with this uh these people are in extremely high demand we had a salary study we increased in the range a couple months ago even with the increased range we still are unable to find anybody even the person who's here on the contract basis has been offered a job full-time and they would rather you know maintain that you know perdm contract job uh that they have you know so what ends up with cities like us in our size is as we're competing with larger cities like Clear Water you know St Pete and the county um you know and then we're also competing with third party vendors who we then have to subcontract to except that when these building officials work for the third party vendor they get to work from home they don't have to come to an office and they certainly don't have to sit here and and listen to to Residents who are going through the most horrible time in their lives and so the opportunity for them is sit at home you know do what they do at home work whatever hours they want whenever they want right and get paid you know a very large salary with benefits you know or they can come sit in the city for 40 hours a week 9 to5 commute to work then go back and so the reason we're doing this right now is because we've heard it loud and clear from the community do whatever it is you can to move this building the apartment this permanent apartment forward and so our next attempt at this is to increase the range above what even panel's clear water and St Peter pain so hopefully we I'm not saying this we may come back in you know in 90 days and say okay we've got to go to 175 right but this is the next step the next step is to say okay let's raise it to the county highest level and see if we can find somebody who can be here full-time right um again I'm just I want to make sure the public understands the situation that the city was facing 90 days ago before we got hit and where we are today and this is one more effort that we're we're making to put this department in the best possible position and even this may not be enough so we may have to revisit this if we're unsuccessful in hiring somebody the next 30 to 60 days but it certainly puts us in a better position is there a motion I make a motion to adopt resolution 24 or 20 24-31 to authorize a city manager to adjust the building official pay range 7.5% above the pay study moving the position from GR grade 16 to grade 17 and to update the Personnel rules and regulations Section 1.02 B to include building official or building official as an at will employee further this includes amending the city of St Pete Beach 401a adoption agreement to add the building official position to be grouped with the Department directors whereby the employer shall contribute contribute on behalf of the building official who is to partic who is a participant 12% of earnings for the plan year subject to the limitations of article five of the plan Second City Clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner R Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor patrilla yes carries thank you all right next we have items for discussion commissioner Robinson 3B I'll start with freebie I I just and commissioner just I just want to note that I made an executive decision and added it to your Monday agenda to discuss the freebie contract so if you want to wait it's now been noticed if you want to pull it on Monday you can but I just wanted to let you know that I I'll just say I'm tired of watching him drive by my house with nobody in them and we can finish that discussion on okay and I want to thank the city clerk for making that adjustment as well thank you all right uh for B consent order um I I'm bringing this to everybody's attention based on our last um meeting where we saw what Dire Straits our infrastructure was in uh sewer system Wastewater um I have heard from quite a few residents their concerns as well for that um and asking you know why we continue to even look at at development as well in regards to the Straits that we're in and and what we're going to be looking at financially but being somebody who's been here a long time and being well aware of the situation for the last two decades I know that there were we were under consent order um and I have concerns that we need to get in front of that if we are not compliant with that order that was in uh 2014 um I put that on everybody's in front in front of everybody as well as a memo noting on March 24th 2017 some of the updates to um FD in regards to our our uh system in what maintenance had been done and I am concerned whether that maintenance was done whether we are in compliant and very concerned that if we are not if there's any sort of fines associated with that and what those could be um and I just want us to get in front of that instead of be behind it and look like we're trying to sweep anything under the rug I think we need to look at it and make an evaluation on that and if we need to talk to D about it um I think it's something that that would uh call for that as well as whether you know this is a reason too as well to support any sort of you know looking at whether we should continue with development until we get this addressed and I would ask the the attorneys to take a look at that as well because there are some big concerns on that absolutely and we can bring back a response with regard to this not Monday but oh it's probably going to take a while figuring absolutely absolutely so this was something that um I'm I've been aware of for for a long time and something that uh was brought to my attention um by several residents as well uh after the conversations that we had last Tuesday um so I I do think it'd be prudent of us to take a look at the consent order um some of the things addressed in there for example Pump Station one and the maintenance and and repair of it um other components of our sewer system that we found that were significantly deficient at the last commission meeting um there were several steps that the city was required to take as as a result of this consent order um so I think it' be important for us to understand you know did we follow those steps looks like we you know received the letter from the DP um and if we did take care of those steps how do we end up in a position again where we're so potentially uh significantly deficient in the things that we were told we had to get under control um you know November 21 of 2014 so 10 years ago um and then the other part of it is you know we need to start having a conversation with the DP and say look the problems that we had the problems are back um can we sit down can we have a conversation about how do we Rectify these these problems um we're also taking money from the state to fix some of these problems um so I think that it'd be prudent of us to have a conversation with um and take a look and see what what we need to do in this at this point absolutely am I correct that the consent order is something that was imposed on the city by the D due to due to spillage right due to to discharge correct correct okay so a consent order isn't something that the city calls the D and says we don't think we've been maintaining our sewer system would you please put us under a consent order correct no this would be we have a consent order we were required to do certain number of things right looks like we may be deficient of having done those things and this is just a matter of getting in front of it rather than the DP finding about it from somewhere else that maybe we're deficient rather us approaching them and say look you know we've got basically everybody here is new including the city staff you know we just found out about this a week ago right um this is an opportunity for us to go to them and say look you know what what can we do to work this out and make sure that we are compliant with the state requirements and make sure that you know we're not if they come back and say look everything's great then everything's great but the last thing I would like to see is you know somebody sends that video from last commissioning to the DP and they look and like well I remember St P Beach they had all of these issues here for the last 10 years and we told them they got to get all that stuff under control looks like maybe it's not under control right and then they come in heavy-handed rather than us approaching them and say look how do we work this out how do we make sure that we're in compliance and if they say look everything's great then everything's great if they say look we'll work with you let's get these things thank you for coming to us let's get these things under control let's make sure everything make sure your sewer system gets brought up to speed make sure that your Waste Water System you know make sure that you're reclaimed water make sure that you're you know your storm while the drains everything is is working as as it's designed to right yeah I would be very interested in in kind of a little bit of a comprehensive overview from uh perhaps the city attorneys about that original consent order what the terms were and if it appears we've complied I mean th this this that commissioner Robinson provided is just a memo saying that the deadline for all these things is November of 2017 um and my assumption would have been that if we hadn't complied would have there there would be another Memo from December of 2017 saying you didn't do it but but but with the very incomplete information I have here I would I would definitely be interested in a more uh a more comprehensive overview of where we stand oh no that's that's I think that's what we're what we're all saying is you know let's let's look and see make sure that you know do we have you know are we exactly because some of the things in here were ongoing reports that were required for years after and you know I want to make sure that we did what we're supposed to be doing again all of us just you know I'm pretty sure the last commission meeting was a shock to most of us right and so now that we know about it you know how do we move forward you know and since we have this thing already in our history you know we want to make sure that you know we're not compounding an already bad situation good do we have something that we can have by the first Commission meeting in January we will do our absolute best all right thank you all right next we have a discussion on electrical wiring I've brought this up a couple times and I have concerns on it knowing that other than your house falling down the biggest safety issue after a flood is electrical and I'm and I've had residents ask me why they can't when they have cloth wire go ahead and rewire their whole house under the uh minimal permit for safety reasons and it's instead of duplicating the effort again when they know that they're within their their percentage that they can make it within their 50 and get this work done and still be ahead of the game it just helps them to to start moving along and getting that process done and people are losing contractors left and right on the delays and I just uh bring this to the attention to see if this is something we can add to that minimal permit so that can move along we can uh again everybody signs the affidavit that says that they know the consequences you got to keep your receipts you still got to add that to your sdsi packet all of that it just seems that it moves things along instead of it's one step then mother may I take another step backwards do it all over again and it's a movement forward and it's an easy one for those that that uh can go ahead and get that done underneath their their minimum permit so this is going to be a building official call we don't have the authority to necessarily direct him because of how he has to link justification under a minimal permit interpretation by FEMA versus his application but I'm willing to bring It Forward I think we've had discussions but we can certainly bring It Forward again and at the very least come back and present um if the answer is no the why I I did speak with him with Luke about it and it appeared it's more of a wording than anything else um and if that's something that we can get the correct wording on that for that portion whether that be in the actual temporary permit or the uh minimal permit then that would be great or um it's just everybody writing their own scope of work things seem to be written differently some get approved based on how it's written some don't get approved based on how it's written and it's the same thing so yeah I can certainly commit to discuss with them and see if there's some way to work through it it did have a follow up to that uh and if Denise wouldn't mind just um so I apologize for not bringing this up during your presentation but this relates to this as well um we do have a significant number of older homes from the you know 40s and 50s uh especially if you're close to Golf Boulevard uh homes that may have cloth wiring um and just been approached by several homeowners that have cloth wiring they've had two or three fet of water uh and they were told that they have to replace their entire electrical system um so the two questions I have is one you know can you just please explain to us why that is the case and then second is this a Flor the building code thing is this a FEMA thing or is this a city of St P Beach ordinance so as you know I'm not a plans examiner or building official but my understanding from Luke and having this conversation is that whenever an electrical permit is so cloth wiring can exist in a home until you pull an electrical permit when you pull an electrical permit all electrical wiring must come up to code so it has really nothing to do even with flood damage or with FEMA or anything else it is building code and any c code National Electric Code requirement as well so this is a national requirement as well as a Florida building code requirement correct so cloth wiring whenever you open the electrical code you have to come to full compliance with electrical code whenever you open electrical permit excuse me okay so our building official under no circumstance would be allowed to issue a permit for any wiring if there was cloth wire present that is correct okay so in every circumstance flooding or no flooding if you just replace anything and you're pulling an electrical permit and there's cloth wiring all of it has to be replaced for that permit to be able to be issued correct okay thank you that is now the fun answer um and I guess the only question I have I mean that it's not really one for us but the question I would have is for the the home owners in that situation and I've spoken to a few adjusters that said look if the damage is greater than what you think it is or there's additional circumstances you know I would certainly have that conversation with your insurance adjuster and say look I realize I may only have a 2 feet of water and normally would only have to cut the wires a foot above but in this case because it's cloth wiring and again the adjustor should know this right um but that's that's really I can't even imagine having to do that to whole house I have to yeah my house is all cloth yeah sure no it's it's no because you look if you had 2 feet of water you still got 8 foot six more feet that you've got to replace everything up in the attic and MH got to help if it's underneath your slob and um okay I wish there was a better answer for that sorry all right is there anything else okay we'll see everybody Monday at 6 p.m. thank you we are a joint for