##VIDEO ID:ZzlJb5qGrD8## e e e e e e e e e e call the order the special City Commission meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is Monday December 23rd 2024 it is 6 p.m. stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do a roll call vice vice mayor mahand here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Robinson here mayor patrilla here we have a quorum thank you are there any amendments to the agenda as proposed Mr Mayor I'd like to make an announcement at the end of the meeting please or I can make it now it doesn't matter okay um we can add that to item 3C okay any other amendments to the agenda is there motion to approve the agenda as amended I move that we approve the agenda as amended I second city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes mayor mahand yes mayor patella yes motion carries thank you city clerz do we have any general audience comments we do Grant Izzy if you'll please state your name and address for the record when you come to the podium Grant Izzy address is 203 59th Avenue uh my general comments tonight regard permitting and I have two specific comments on permitting um I'm not sure if the if you've ever entertained or if the staff has brought to you the idea of private providers for permitting um if if you don't know what that is I can I can explain it uh just a little bit but um what I would like to offer and request is that the staff goes back and looks at providing private providers to help with the permitting process they they are licensed people in Florida they work with contractors all the time and what they do for the STA to help the staff and would help us is they do the planning portion and the inspections now that does come at a fee to the resident if the resident does choose to do that but it will help relieve the bottleneck in permitting and it gives the residents another option to use which could also support the staff so I would just like to uh offer that uh for you to take back and consider uh secondly one thing that's not being allowed right now at least from my understanding is pictures and videos uh for inspections so again with private providers uh who are licensed they can do pictures and videos they do it all the time in other cities for other cities and M municipalities but even if we don't go to private providers to help with permitting um allowing contractors licensed contractors to take pictures and videos to help with the inspection process you know for example drywall Etc so those are the two comments I have on permitting at the end of the day I know the goal is the same here it's to get residents in quickly and safely and I believe both of these things would help residents get in quickly thank you thank you we actually addressed the uh first item a few weeks ago at a uh town hall meeting that we had um if you would like the specifics on that if you want to send me an email and I'll send you back the reply on that um but there was a specific reason why we could not do it for Residential Properties sorry so there was a there was a specific reason why we couldn't do it for Residential Properties it's common and Commercial to have a private provider um unfortunately wasn't an option for what we're dealing with and I can send you the details and exactly why that that wasn't an option sure question if I may I I believe legal legal answered the question for us we you cannot do it if it's below B BF damage is below BFE if it's above BFE then you can use private but that would negate everything that's flooded so you can't use it I think that's via a state statute it's not a city statute it's a or ordinance it's a state statute correct yeah again if you want to send me an email we can um forward you the exact details on that it was a good idea and it was brought up by several people and unfortunately as as much as that would help uh now we do have an additional 50 um plans reviewers permits inspectors that we are waiting uh to see if we get approval on top of the 25 we've already brought on board city clerk John kurman if you'll please state your name and address for the record yes John kurman and I try to live it be he on way um two things uh at the last meeting on Friday I had mentioned a um a state map uh which has houses and and and mentioned that the uh the map does not always show the proper code at the houses that a lot of houses that should be in in the AE Zone show in the ve Zone um but I wanted to point out that the reason I was saying that was that you know I'm concerned that there's people out there that are trying to buy houses and I just want to make sure that residents know that if someone comes and tries to buy your house and they say to you you know you're in the velocity Zone and you know you're going to have trouble selling your house later and and and they start saying things to you make sure you go to the official FEMA Maps don't look at State websites make sure that you're really going to the official FEMA Maps because those are the only maps that really dictate your FEMA rates and that was part of the reason I was really bringing that up the other thing is that um when we were talking about grants I did just you know it just had happened by accident that I had seen a grant recently um and it's a it's a FEMA Grant um you can go to my I didn't get my laptop working yet but it's a grant it's a it's a f grant that only became available you know like any femal Grant who knows if it's really available um and it's for homeowners but you can't apply to for it unless you apply through the community so the communities have to put it together and it's only for communities that are in a presidential disaster declared area which we only recently became part of um and and it points out that it only is ones that are in good standing with the national flood insurance program so as we talk about making sure we stay in the you know the good graces of the nfip there is one of the reasons for that but so we do need now to have time to you know figure out what this program is but it is something to consider um to to work with the and then so the community now has to figure out what this grant program is but there is a program that that may be we're going to want to to get involved with it's called the HM the hazard mitigation grant program where they do take applications about you know helping you to raise and mitigate your house but I mean how do you do this you're supposed to wait till you're in a disaster program to then apply and of course you know where do you live and how do you do this and how long do you wait to do it and you can't yourself you have to wait till the whole Community puts it together but this program exists and I just wanted to throw it out there as a as a general comment thank you thank you sir no other cards for General comments okay next we have item 3A adopt the emergency ordinance 2024 d19 city clerk thank you an or an emergency ordinance of the city of St Pete Beach amending for 60 days the St Pete Beach code of ordinances sections 98-349 a-36 98122 do4 and 98128 do4 to amend a provision related to Improvement and repair of buildings and flood Hazard areas providing for separability codification and scriveners error and providing for an effective date thank you city clerk thank you Mr Mayor uh this is the um uh emergency ordinance tied to the substantial Improvement damage look back period that you all discussed on Friday so we're bringing it back for your consideration today uh we don't have a specific presentation for today but Denise is here to answer any questions that you may have along with the city attorney thank you Denise would your mind good evening would you like me to review the content changes please thank you so um changes compared to 2024 D16 which was the one-year look back so just briefly um this new ordinance reduces the one-year cumulative look back to the minimum nfip requirement of permit to permit provided that all permits associated with restoring a structure to pre-damage condition are calculated together for substantial damage purposes it does not help or hinder any homeowner pertaining to the current damage restoration process substantial damage still includes calculation of all work and permits necessary to restore the structure to pre-damaged condition and as you may recall ordinance 20246 has adopted decoupled substantial damage from the one-year look back process so once the damage related permits are are closed out they do not count toward the one-ear or the no look back calculation this will help during Blue Sky periods it will help homeowners with homes that have living levels below the flood plane who choose to make improvements back toback without any time period in between under the one-year look back standard adopted through 20246 Improvement costs are calculated together over a one-year period starting from the date of issuance of the first permit this would go away if ordinance 20249 is adopted 20249 also enables construction cost estimation data other than Marshall and Swift and allows the flood plan administrators set cost through their local and Regional knowledge which is one of the technical updates that was requested by our building official Luke Curtis thank you you're welcome okay Commissioners questions comments I uh yes sir I hope you'll indulge me I probably only need about 10 minutes but um I I just uh want to go through a few things here to to be certain I am straight on stuff um I guess the first comment I would say um I was I I assume that there's no ground swell uh within the community to opt out of the national flood insurance program uh I had mentioned that was a potential option on Friday uh with the specific intent to hear if there was any ground swell for that and there clearly isn't so I think we can put that to bed um so M Sanderson on and I know you weren't here February 9th 2021 the commission that was seated at that time uh approved uh this ordinance which is 20212 uh and it was that was the final reading and that was effective 7121 does that sound accurate based on your knowledge of the history of our ordinance as it relates to this matter yes though I have not watched any of those commission meetings leading up to that action nor have I okay but I have read the documents uh so aside from a desire to lower the insurance rates which I believe that was one of the common threads with the commission at that time uh but that is an assumption and that's based on some testimony that we you've received uh in recent weeks and months um why would have that commission um considered such a restrictive policy as related to the look back period would you care to a a pine on that why they uh uh would have done that I know I've heard I believe I've heard Brandon or um Mr Barry comment on that um but I'd be curious why do you think they did that I I this is just a guess um based on the content of what it was that was passed for that July 1 2021 implementation those the fiveyear lookback with exclusions really was focused on resiliency during blue skies right so um which is a a an opportunity in the CRS system to gain additional points as you attempt to March toward lower and lower ratings for your community um improved ratings I should say a lower class number so my my suspicion is um commensurate with the comprehensive plan that has Coastal elements commensurate with flood plane regulations that are always being updated I would presume that the five-year cumulative look back with exclusions was to encourage home hardening and other types of resiliency efforts which would be consistent with other adopted plans and strategies so both you and I um based on our interpretations and best guess of what that commission was thinking um they felt that it was likely in the best long-term interest of the community uh to encourage hardening of the community would would am I off base by saying that I think that's a fair assessment of what likely occurred given the content okay thank you um so what the staff discovered on 12 December and was conveyed I believe later that day um to the commission and then we discussed on Friday whatever day that was the days seemed to be running together would ordinance would those have survived FEMA's new interpretation only during substantial Improvement processes so had we stuck with 202-02 there would be a five and and not tried to make changes to accommodate the present needs of the Community Based on two unprecedented storms had we stuck with this ordinance then people would have assumed that they had exclusions uh but they would not have those exclusions would have been discounted by FEMA if if they were damaged during the storm if the roof was blown off or um the windows were pushed in from the storm surge Etc am I correct in that I believe you're correct so what we discussed on Friday and what was a message to you all from the city manager and the days preceding Friday's meeting was that there had been a long-standing interpretation that exclusions were allowed um now this of course was prior to us decoupling damage from Improvement we went through that process not long ago as you know so it was presumed that substantial Improvement substantial damage were coupled together and that those exclusions would carry and even after the decoupling it did not come to our attention through a revised interpretation that those exclusions would not pertain to a damaged event that was new information courtesy of a meeting with Region 4 FEMA so it's relatively safe to assume that the commission 2021 which I uh am not necessarily an advocate of many of those uh Commissioners but uh they were considering the long-term well-being of this community as it related to resiliency when they made this decision both you and I would be that's a guess on both your part and my part but that would be would you not agree that's I would an accurate guess I would agree and and I would further opine if you would that that commission likely believed that during a damage event those exclusions would carry as well they were operating under that long-standing interpretation as I've mentioned right so they were operating under the information that they were provided at the time correct by staff and FEMA and Florida Department of Emergency Management correct okay um so move the clock forward a little bit on November 19th of this year uh we had a discussion on ordinance 20246 an emergency adoption of the same ordinance via ordinance 2417 when discussing the zero look back versus the oneyear look back would am I correct in what I'm saying there I believe all of those numbers are correct yes okay uh and during that time Rebecca Quinn who you may know I don't know I just know from reading her opinions uh Rebecca Quinn a consultant for the Florida depart Department of Emergency Management vetted both the oneye and the zeroy year look back and provided an opinion that either would be FEMA comp is that accurate that is accurate and I in Communications that were more recent following our meeting with region form at Region 4 she was surprised by the interpretation provided by Region 4 um she didn't argue it she was surprised by it so she stood by that interpretation and that was my sense in an email communication that she was surprised with the new interpretation okay so actually that as we move forward that was one of the things I was going to ask is uh you know obviously she kind of I specifically remember during that meeting stating that we kind of had the go-ahead from an expert here we did not only an expert like yourself within city government but an outside expert by the way did we pay her for that opinion we did not okay uh so she is a consult to FM okay the Florida Division of okay so the State of Florida paid pays her but she's not an employee of the State of Florida no she's not so once again her response to you was um that she was surprised that FEMA reinterpreted the exclusions um provision of any look back period she did not state that surprise in those terms but that's certainly inferred by the what I presumed was the tone of her email and her response okay okay and there's likely no room for hope that um the opinion that City staff received on 12 December um was somehow uh lower level or midlevel person that maybe was looking to you know get out for the weekend early and uh just kind of wanted to move on um I mean we have an expert that essentially said they were surprised that the new opinion from or apparently new opinion from FEMA um made exclusions no longer all low um we feel I wasn't in the meeting uh do we feel really good that what we received on the 12th that's solid and that wasn't a I hate to say this a government worker looking to get out the door at noon rather than work until 5: a federal government work let me just clarify that uh yes this FEMA region for rep is very solid in her advice um and in hindsight looking at it now through the lens it it seems pretty apparent that FEMA's objective if you will is always to have conforming structures because that mitigates cost for the from the federal government including payments made by nfip which they manage and so it seems to make sense to me in hindsight that their primary AR objective is to see conformance meaning above flood plane elevation and that they would otherwise discourage other types of non-conforming type of activities now home hardening of course prevents damage in many many ways particularly wind related and so that is supported although when you look now at the points provided through that five-year lookback it did yield just 20 points and that sort of makes sense now as we think about how home hardening is viewed through that lens it yields very few points over a very long period of time okay so just to move on with our little trip down memory lane here um so ordinance 20246 with the one-year look back uh and emergency ordinance uh 24-17 with the one-ear look back were approved by this commission with a 3 to2 vote is that your recollection I'm so sorry I don't have that record in front of me but I believe you must it is correct tell you that um so on 10 December of this year once again final reading of ordinance 24 or 20246 with the one-year lookback was read and approved via this commission with a 5 vote um I know you don't have that information in front of you nor do I but I know that to be fact and I'm sure the city clerk will correct me if I'm wrong um and then as as I previously mentioned on December 12th uh once again of this year City staff were advised by FEMA and the Florida Department of Emergency Management that longstanding interpretation of storm exclusions for hardening items were no longer ex excluded Ed from storm damage from a damaging event correct right and the city manager subsequently recorded this to the commission you've already answered my next question um at our special meeting last Friday I asked if based on new femur interpretation uh there would be any known or obvious differences between how many people and would be adversely or non adversely affected um by the new interpretation and you've already answered that question previously right we found no permits that have been issued since October 1 that would put anyone in Jeopardy as it relates to this okay so my next question is if we were to stick with the one-year back or we decide to approve the two-year look back is there any difference because this was a big Point um on Friday evening is there any difference how quickly somebody's permit will get approved by the city uh to move forward with repairing their home whether we have a one-year look back or or a z zeroe look back no not in this circumstance and the very simple reason is the one-year look back is effective um September 24th going forward September 24th 2024 going forward which is the day preceding or two days preceding the event so date of of the executive order from the government for state of emergency so in this instance there is no impact to the permit review process so so I know you I know you were here uh there was a I don't want to say a lot but there was significant comment both from the commission as well I don't want to say significant from the commission that's not correct um and from the community that somehow keeping the oneyear look back would slow down the approval of permit and what you're telling me is that it won't not as it relates to this event I can't speak to anything that might occur in the future and again that's because in particular the one-year look back begins um marching forward 924 2024 so has no permits were issued between 924 and hurricane Helen 926 as an example so no issues okay so and I don't want to get I this isn't convoluted but I'm kind of talking through things here so I may my my belief is that for Public Policy as I believe the 2021 commission felt that for public policy that a certain level of lookback is beneficial to the long-term concerns and benefit of the community that's my opinion as I sit here this moment right now it was my opinion on November 19th my concern is that I would not advocate for the oneyear look back if I felt because of the delay on permitting would prevent people or or or or create a greater exposure for residents to be able to time any repairs or improvements moving forward and what you're telling me is and it's you know I kind of need a a mental calculator for this but if we approve the one year look back that that's not that nobody's going to get caught in that trap for 12 months from September whatever that 27 I mean these number these dat are running together I'm old so you got to bear with me a little bit here um but my concern is is I don't I don't want a resident to be trapped that has storm damage and they have an open permit because a permit is being approved so late because of the massive amount of requests that they're going to get caught on October 1st next year or September 1st whatever the date is with an open permit and they then become a prisoner of the one-year look back I believe that the oneye look back once again I've stated this over and over again I believe that it is the best public policy for the community absence a crisis we are currently in a Crisis crisis so I want to support the one-year look back I'm probably just wasting my time talking about this but I feel pretty strongly about this uh because I'm not I I have a sense that I'm the only one feeling this way but I feel that is best public policy but I do not want to trap residents in a bad situation because of the crisis we're in and I I I hope you can help me get my mind wrapped around that so because of the decoupling of substantial damage from subst substantial Improvement whichever option we go with what is critically important is that residents focus on repairs to a pre-damaged condition and close out those permits that's just always going to be the recommendation before they consider doing any improvements of any type home hardening or otherwise that they focus on repair and close that permit before pulling another and that's both the benefit and the hurdle if you will of having substantial damage decoupled from substantial Improvement um so regardless of which option you all consider and take forward um with tonight's action that is going to be the recommendation um it does both of these effectively put in place because of that decoupling and um they put it and because of that new interpretation it effectively puts you in a permit to permit um frame of mind if you will when it comes to considering how you uh restore your property or make improvements to your property it's a permit to- permit approach if you will that is different than if you will previous interpretations where if you were doing home hardening and windows and all those other things um we weren't terribly concerned with those things because they were excludable now we know that they cannot be um as it relates to damaged condition sounds like you're advocating for the zero look back I'm not advocating for one or the other I'm I'm not I think there are pros and cons to both we presented both I think um it's a Sticky Wicket quite fre that's not a technical term of course but um I think uh it really comes down to um to to your point um you know does this commission desire to move forward with um resiliency a a measure of focus on resiliency efforts for long-term sustainability if you will or or um resilient structures um in this moment that we're in which is unprecedented as you've said or do we move forward uh we're not risking our CRS rating as you know we're not losing any points by these changes tonight if if they're made so it that's not at risk or you know in Jeopardy um going forward just candidly on a one-year look back if we have another event I said right now it would not inhibit our ability to issue permits in a timely manner if we go forward with a one-year look back it does add a single layer of you then are requiring of staff to go back and look at um any of those uh to do the math if you will during the look back period there there's just an added measure of that review I would think that it would be rather minimal in terms of Staff capacity and and impact to time on issuing permits but it does require an additional measure of review just to affirm what may be contributing toward a structure calculation if onee look back is in place thank you I I very much appreciate you uh working through that process with me you're very welcome commissioner mohal and I you're you're not the only one that is concerned about resiliency long term I think I think we all are and I don't think anyone could say that's not the case the challenge I I have with all of this is so when we initially made the change to a one-year look back we had we were under the assumption um based on long-standing um practice that it would actually help more residents because we would you know if you need to replace windows AC or roof right we could take those out of the permitting process you could just do your um do your repairs and then do windows and roofs and AC separately without having to fact that into your 50% calculation that is no longer the case and you know I think something you said um you know the challenge I have with all of this is and this is something commissioner RZ Niki said at the last meeting is to put it bluntly we're all adults right we should be able to make decisions for ourselves for our families our homes that makes sense for us and in this case you know we got 20 points which if I remember correctly did not lower did not put us into the next discount brackets it actually did not provide a discount by going to five years it didn't do anything for our discounts it just made it more difficult for people if they chose to improve their homes to do so and and that to get to the challenge point is it seems like all we have is a stick like we're you know we're getting punished because we live we live if the program had something and you know incentives for raising your home like let's let's have a carrot right but the carrot is $30,000 so if you want to raise your home if you want to get out of flood plane if you want to do what's right because you decide what's right for me my family is to raise our house up you get $30,000 and if you have repetitive damage you might get another $30,000 right but if you don't raise your home you could be deemed substantially damaged and now you've got to tear down your house or do something else there's a lot of punitive part to it there's no there's no incentive part to it right no one's saying look if you want to raise your house going right is 100 bucks a square foot 2,000 foot house here's $2,000 to raise your house you know and this is not I'm just and so because of that you know we're we're not getting any benefits now for having one year just makes it more difficult at some point in the future you know it it may help with resiliency maybe um except that if you're just doing substantial improvements you can still take out your windows AC and roof correct okay so for most people I've done enough home renovations to know what the average cost is you're going to be under 50% in in a lot of those cases and probably in most cases so it actually doesn't prevent anyone from fixing up their house whether it's one year zero look back and and to me I mean I I I know you warned this or the city manager warned us that if we made this change at some point FEMA might come back and say no and they did um and so while I'm 100% with you on resiliency at the end of the day people still need to be able to make a decision what's right for them in their homes and since the one year provides zero tangible benefit um so the last question well the only question because I haven't asked any questions right so if we have a zero look back there is no there's no exemption there are no exemptions for roof AC and um and windows and the reason that there are no exemptions is because you could just close the permit and open another one almost immediately correct okay so in in essence they both function the same way correct many ways I would say with one caveat and that is at no time can any permit exceed 50% of your structural value of course so whereas before if you wanted to do roof Windows AC all at the same time and they exceeded your structural value because they were excluded it didn't matter so now it really is there's a measure of conscience that every uh property owner is really going to need to consider as they plan for their repairs or improvements over time right thank you thoughts comments I've got a couple um to commissioner M Holland's uh musings on the the intent of the previous commission when they implemented The Five-Year look back um I spoke to a few of them and uh um SE several of the people on the commission at that time told me that at that time the reason that they did that was because they felt like they were being pressured to make that decision at the county level and that the county or or whatever impression they had was that this was going to be required of all municipalities to go to a 5-year look back so they did shortly after that when other municipalities didn't and there was no recourse they all said we wished we hadn't done it um so um you know I I'm I'm not I'm not sure it matters why a previous commission did what they did or what their intent was when we're making our decisions um but but if it does there's that um I I agree that all of us who live in a house on the ground myself included should be thinking real hard about what are we doing um and I think all of us since we've had kitchen counter deep water in our house have been thinking real hard about what what what are we doing is this a good idea do I want to do this again um but the truth is that everything that has been done to encourage resilience whether it's a five-year look back or a one-year look back it it just makes people find the loophole right so what it does is it gets people to uh get a private appraisal maybe three times times while they're in the midst of a remodeling project it has not kept people from putting 500,000 700,000 $800,000 worth of improvements into houses that are 4.5 ft above sea level in St P Beach and and so keeping a one-year look back versus going to a zeroe look back isn't going to change that so people who want to put a bunch of money into their house that that that I may or you may think isn't the right thing to do um isn't going to stop them from doing it and I'm certain I do plenty of things that other people think are unwise as well and uh and and I I don't I also don't like being told that I shouldn't do it um and so when when it doesn't have the intended effect anyway and makes things more complicated potentially going forward I don't really see any reason not to just go to a zero look back I think the resiliency is prudent on everybody's part I mean we can all look around and look at our neighbors to see who did well and we'll notice it's everybody in a that has uh is above BF they did well um for the others like myself that are single story it was a risk we took book and I I think that as far as her not being a benefit which we realized that pretty early on to which way we went with our rating um and now they're not being a benefit you know other than making it your own choice whether you want to get impact windows or or do a re roof or that you don't have to do or do those hardening items um still knowing that you could get 3 feet through your house or even 8T cuz everybody talks about us being hit we weren't really hit we were sideswiped a hit is 8T a hit is Fort Meyers is is is what Ian did down south and that's that's our hit um but I I subscribe to the kiss method keep it simple and um I think that the simple method is the no look back and that's what I voted on before was a no look back that's what I was inclined to originally and I I still think it's the easiest method for all involved uh from an accounting standpoint from going back from explaining to to everybody just just to especially in light of what could happen going forward city clerk do we have any audience comments Grant Izzy now Mr Izzy this is going to be one in your only warning you don't get to talk about permits twice just because you spoke during the general audience comments but you kept it under a minute so yeah all right thank you yeah gr izy 203 59th Avenue um if if you're all going to vote on zero look back I'll just sit down because I don't I don't need to talk about this again like I have uh at a couple other previous commission meetings right the zero look back is the only one that allows all the residents to have the choice to do what they want to do with their house just just like you said it's always been the the most simple it's always been one that didn't didn't have any penalty 20 points remember points versus people you know we we've talked about this so I I urge you tonight to vote for that so we can all move forward and and do the right thing there I do applaud you for the for for trying the one year because that also kind of helped everyone as well it just didn't work out so so let's just do the one that works which will be the the zero look back so so please um and and you know keeping it simple is the right thing especially in a time of Crisis we want this community be be to be resilient building the resiliency is a long-term strategy that needs to happen once this crisis is over I mean it can start happening now the planning now but we are in a in a crisis planning right now and this crisis is not going to be over for maybe another year or more and I won't consider it over until everyone's back in their homes right so crisis leadership is different and crisis planning is different and so that's the mode we're in zero look back does that for us and I just the the conversation earlier about all the assumptions and presumes and speculations and all that that right now really we we can't make decisions on that and you and you can't no one was here at the time so let's just go when you're in a crisis you have to lead by facts and and I think commissioner Mullan as a former Marine you know this better than anybody facts on the ground during combat of what you make your decisions by and so let's get the folks back in their homes quickly right safely and then we can move on with um making hardening the city and it better so that so that and then give people choices on how they want to harden their own homes so thank you for your time excuse me we will maintain the Quorum please thank you John kurman yeah Mr Mayor I'd just like to make a comment again uh there seems to be a continuing narrative that either of these proposals uh or one or the other is going to get people back in their home homes faster and I think we already had that conversation that neither the zero or the one year is going to change how quickly permits and the like are issued and the continuous narrative to that um you know it was in the last meeting it was this meeting I mean I hear what people are saying and I appreciate it but I I don't think uh you know I I know that I'm not advocating to slow down the permitting process and I haven't been advocating for that I've been advocating for a full intelligent conversation thank you Mr Mayor certainly I think it also you know the any kind of insinuation that the decisions from a few weeks ago were made without facts without all the facts or just randomly and haphazardly also that's that's also a you know the decisions were made based on the information that we had at the time and if you look back over the last you know 3 months we've made a lot of decisions where either FD or FEMA has come back and said no this doesn't work or this does work or you know to the credit of our staff they've been digging into Florida Statutes Federal statutes our ordinances um to make sure that you know we have the most streamlined best process possible and we've eliminated a lot of things off the books that really didn't serve any purpose just for that so I you know the decisions that were made were based on the facts that we had and again as as I mentioned to andison earlier we were warned by the city manager at the time if you do make this decision FEMA can always override us and they did and that's unfortunate um and yet so here we are having to again relook at this issue because we now have new information that we did not have a month ago Mr kurman John kurman uh beand Way St P Beach and by the way this is why I think it's so dangerous for us to make decisions uh that put you know trying to please FEMA first instead of taking you know our our Citizens first because you know you never know when FEMA is going to come back and essentially stab Us in the back you never know um and one of the things I think that Brandon said is I believe that the zero look back will make our permits permitting process fast F because now when a permit comes in we can look at it immediately on its own and say is this have any chance of being near the 50% rule no well then we don't need a FEMA packet well if you're doing cumulative looking you now have to say well even if it has no chance of being 50% we need a FEMA packet because maybe now within the next year you're going to have other project and adding all your projects together for the year might hit 50 but instead when you have no look back you can look at each project individually and immediately know hey this is nowhere near 30 we can just decide on our own now let me get to what I want to talk about um so in the current or in 20 uh I'm sorry in 2021 notice that they needed to have exclusions because they were rolling forward and even in 2021 they said you're exclusions couldn't add up to 50% and even in our current ordinance we actually say fine print fine print taketh away it actually said those excluded items the windows and all those special things they couldn't add up to 50% even at the time again it's it was not giving you really something special because it was that you couldn't roll them forward they didn't count but you couldn't do more than 50% at the time now the real thing I want to talk about though is that the carrot we have we do have a carrot and the carrot is that if you jump through the hoop and you and you raise your house that now you could say I'm never going to have to be hassled by the 50% rule again and a lot of what's written says that a lot of what's written says if you're post firm meaning if you've done what you need to do if you were built after December of 74 it says things like you now will be judged on the things that were done when your house was built the rules that were that were done then work shall not be allowed later on that will make the house not compliant with the management requirements that it had to be met when the building was constructed so if later on we say we want our free board to be plus two or plus three that later on if your house gets hit by a hurricane or something you know where your roof comes off you don't have to have the problem so I have all these slides we stamp things no new work will be allowed below the BFE but we're you know you you can't make your house non-compliant um so you know there's all these rules and and and so we have this letter that says you're exempt from the Fe 50% rule once You' been your house compliance and and and so thank you so my my thing is try to make that carrot available to people and put that in the ordinance that you you do now thank you make it clear thank you I think it's important that we are precise in our language and what uh Denise said earlier does match what Brandon said but to be specific in the language it is today for this storm event it does not help us it does not expedite permits commissioner mohal and asked her three times just to be sure where it does expedite permits is in a non-storm event because the staff does not have to go back and look when was the last time you did any improvements and how much were those improvements Visa your 50% rule so for today again just to be precise right one year or no zero makes no difference as far as how fast we can process permits so yes but again just want to make sure that we're all on the same page that we're precise with the language that we use so that you know we don't get information out there for some thank you no other cards thank you would anyone like to make a motion one way or another I move that we adopt the emergency ordinance 20249 for substantial Improvement damage look back period is there a second I second that city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Robinson yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Mar yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have item 3B a discussion on the freebie contract yes sir Mr Mayor uh we added this uh after Direction uh from you all at the last meeting um we did reach out to just for your knowledge we did reach out to freebie uh this morning to let them know that this was coming before you all as a potential action item um unfortunately their managing partner was out of the area and his staff was as well so they're unable to attend the meeting tonight um they did send um I did POS some questions to them about their writers ship because I knew that was one of the um the questions at the previous meeting so they did provide an email I believe you all received today um just kind of um going over some of those facts and then uh some commentary as well uh the only thing I'll also mention is we do still have them scheduled to speak before the commission on the January 14th agenda um so they are planning on on doing that we a meeting with them prior to ensure that they answer all the questions that you all would like answered at that at that January 14th meeting so that that's all I have the City attorney has reviewed the contract and he's able to answer a question should you have any would you mind sharing with us the contents of that email I'm sorry the Mind sh sure the question just in general broad Strokes yeah it was it was quite a long uh email um I I probably the highlights of it is uh between September 24th and October 20th there were no freebie Services due to the hurricane in packs on October 21st uh service was resumed but with reduced operating hours so they're only and and they still continue with reduced operating hours from 7:00 a.m. till 9:00 p.m. that's a reduction from 6:00 a.m. till midnight so about 24% fewer uh operating hours overall post storm their November and December ridership was just north of 8,500 Riders and that's through uh December 22nd so that's through yesterday uh I I did not confirm these numbers but I'll just share the numbers that they provided was again the ridership was down about 34% compared to the same period uh last year but again that's tied in with a 24% fewer operating hours so they came up with the the true reduction is about 10% year-over-year from last year uh is the numbers that they're sharing with us um they gave us a passenger numbers for fiscal year so you know just a broad overview we're looking at about 19,000 passenger just north of 19,000 passengers back in fiscal year 20 uh fiscal year 24 you're at 117,000 passengers so uh quite uh increase but obviously we've added capacity over the years as well so that that's part of it as well um and again uh any questions they they were ready to uh discuss uh the implementation of a resident priority system at the January 14th meeting that was one of the topics uh that we uh wanted to ensure that they discussed with you and then ridership obviously was another one and again like I said certainly if any other questions come up uh we're happy to communicate with them and make sure that they're presenting answers to you on the 14th should you uh should you desire and with the reduced hours was there so our we we pay them on an hourly basis based on how many cars are available how many drivers how many hours per day each each car is in service so was there a reduction in the cost to the city for the last 60 days or so I would assume that based on the the contract language I agree with your assessment on that um I I don't have those numbers in front of me but I certainly can get those for you thank you as as I read the contract though there is a guarantee of a minimum of 84 hours per week per vehicle are we held to that during this time period uh that City attorney would be a question for the City attorney but certainly again I can I can get those numbers back to you for sure because the amendment side of it talks about an addition of four vehicles not to the actual um contract so I have concerns on that I brought this up because I see the freebie out there and I think I've seen four or five of them and I've only seen one Rider in them so that's that's so so that was disturbing for me and in light of what was brought up on December 10th for where you know the state of the city is at compared to their infrastructure and not being able to cover some of the items um maintenance Etc that we're going to need to undertake excuse me commissioner I will ask again that you allow the person speaking to do so uninterrupted if you have something you would like to share with the commission we have yellow comment cards in the back you can bring those to the city clerk and we will give you the same courtesy of 3 minutes of uninterrupted time to speak so that you can present your point of view we want to hear from you so if you haven't filled out a common card I encourage you to do so still plenty of times so if you want to go ahead and grab one bring it to the city clerk so again just I'm asking for the same courtesy you will be accorded when you come to speak before us thank you and I bring bring it up because the name is freebie but it's not free um it's anything but free it's $770,000 a year that the taxpayers pay for and that basically equates to about $66,000 a month and if we've been paying that and if we're obligated for 84 hours per week as a contract States then we've been paying that since the hurricane and considering that I think we all want sewers and we all want maintenance done on our storm drains so we have to prioritize amenities or do we want our basic 101 infrastructure something to think about that's why I brought it up to talk about it so that everybody had an understanding I don't know who's who all saw I know we all did the December 10th meeting which was quite disturbing to know what has to get done in this city going forward and whether an amenity is something that we you a non-essential amenity is what I will call it is what we'd rather have than have our sewers maintained and have our storm our our storm drains maintained um it's it's something to discuss and as well also whether we're going to continue to talk about permitting and whether we're going to wave permit fees I know everybody wanted permit fees waved and we we did that as well there's just a lot of impact that this storm had to the city that we need to valuate what is essential and what is nonessential itial and what we need to do going forward commissioner as the other Commissioners know during the budget process um I uh freebie was one of the items that I brought up that I thought that we should deal with and uh at at the time um you know I just felt that I had done an unofficial polling this was pre-storm obviously I had done an unofficial polling during the summer within my district and I left the the the polling with the fact that 100% of the the small businesses and I'm sure the big businesses too but in my district we don't have any of the big businesses that I'm aware of um and 50% of the residents supported free freebie uh I did not support freebie at all um and after speaking to the businesses and residents and also uh subsequently some Communications with two or three um respected leaders in the community um that um I I very much respect their opinions uh I came to the conclusion that had I been allowed to um make adjustments to the budget that I inherit Ed uh that I did not participate in um forming the bud that budget um that I wanted to scale back freebie get them under control because they' taken on a life of their own um I I thought there was a lot of things that we need to needed to tighten up with them and My Hope was is that uh we would remove somewhere between 200 in $250,000 from the budget um from the freebie budget uh and I thought that was would have been a nice start and still accommodated um many of the businesses and communities um or or residents uh but still kept freebie going and there I had some other concerns as it related to the PSTA funding and the like were we going to have buses back in pass grill or um you know were we going to be able to keep the microtransit going down there so there were a number of factors so pre-storm that's where I was I never got the opportunity to put that forward because the budget process was so far along before I got on the commission but that was my thinking um you know tighten them up Square them away get them here tell tell them directly that if they didn't clean up their act uh we were going to terminate their contract um and to scale it back hopefully through negotiation uh there is 120-day notice of cancellation on their contract uh but that never happened um they do have another phase uh I have not I spent a good amount of time on the freebie contract back uh when I first took office uh I did not review it thoroughly for this meeting but I believe in in February they have another phase coming on that's $166,000 um I thought the easy thing to do from a budget perspective if we didn't want to try to force a renegotiation would have been two or three months ago to um tell them that we were not going to exercise the $160,000 contract and or extension to the contract and that if they didn't agree with that they would terminate we would terminate their contract and give them 120-day notice um I would be very reluctant tonight I'm not saying that I couldn't be convinced tonight to terminate the freebie contract and give them their 120-day notice to totally eliminate it uh um I I I would prefer personally uh to be able to rediscussed conversations with residents and businesses on this particular matter um but that's as we speak now uh that's kind kind of where I stand on it I I would like to see us whether it's tonight or whether it's on the 14th um address some of these issues that I personally have with them but to totally eliminate the contract um I don't get squeamish about a lot of things uh I'm a little squeamish about just saying let's do that tonight I just would like a little more discussion with the community as it relates to that um so but I'm willing to do it if the three of you convince me uh I'm certainly willing to do that but that's not where I'm at as I sit here at this moment in time I wish there was an offer you know a clause in there to suspend as I had mentioned before enforce maor um an offer you know to be able to suspend terminate cancel other options in there but on their contract there it's it's a termination whether they're willing to renegotiate is a whole another thing I think it's a great program but it's a great program when there we're if we want to use the term in Blue Skies um or you know we're we we're have a surplus right now we're not going to be looking at that um and it's a it's a hard reality and um it's it's been a great amenity um I would would hate to see it go but the reality is they got to look at it we have to look at it I would just say I think if we're going to look at freebie we probably need to look at some other things too if we're going to get those big S scissors as the mayor would say out um and I'm I'm perfectly willing to do that I mean I I I I would love to have a designer sports car but it's a matter if I can afford it the maintenance on it so it's you know where do we want our Monies to go to help the city in general it's going to be what did we heard 25 million was it on December 10th yeah I I I guess the question is is there some unintended consequences if we get those big scissors out tonight and just say adios in 120 days to freebie are there I don't know and I think Mr Mayor would probably well I don't think I know he would have uh a lot more insight into this than I would but I am concerned that if we were to totally eliminate it tonight without any staff input on it I I don't know the effects on PSTA and and some of those things so I I I I'm not sure Mr Mayor if you're prepared or want to even discuss that but that that would be a concern of mind of just cutting the knees out from underneath them tonight commissioner so I think that um I I think many of us agree that the the freebie maybe has morphed into something that it wasn't originally intended to be and uh certainly now with the with the the challenges of rebuilding that the cost may not be you know the the exact program we have might not be what we should have or what the city most needs um and so I think that um and you know I think we were going to have this discussion with the folks from the freebie probably back in October um except that we had the hurricanes and so a number of things got delayed and uh and I think that the the having a discussion about what are we getting what is it costing what are the options you know I know that the folks from free freebie have have um offered up options in the past about um you know advertising on their app for a reduction in in fees to the city um I I also have you know in the very beginning when freebie was implemented um as commissioner mahalan says you know that was that was tied in with with the PSTA not running buses down to passag gril and having a a micr Transit option I would hate to see there be no um alternative you know I would hate to see us remove the freebie with no viable alternative particularly for um you know for people in passag gril and certainly for people who work in passag gril and people who live in passag gril to be able to you know get back and forth to the grocery store and that sort of thing which was was a lot of the original intent um when freebie was first implemented I certainly had some concerns about how it was done and the lack of kind of a competitive bid process and you know there may be there may be other providers who would be willing to offer some kind of similar service that might be a better deal I think there's a lot of things that can be discussed as far as taking any any action tonight I think that would be tremendously premature on something that was you know noticed on the Friday before Christmas and we have a meeting on the Monday before Christmas and a lot of people are out of town and this is something a lot of people care about and so to do that with minimal opportunity for any kind of community input um at a time when it's very difficult for people to give Community input uh uh I think would be would be unwise um and I don't think it's gonna I don't think it's G to you know it's going to be a crushing wrong move to wait 3 weeks until it was already on the agenda and the folks from freebie are here and we can have a reasoned conversation about it and an opportunity to hear much more from our community about about what they prefer thank you commissioner so I think you all have made valid points in in your own and I uh I I think where your thoughts are and where your intentions are certainly you know we're on the same page here um the freebie hasn't been an easy ride um not the drivers we've had some challenges with them as well um but just in general with the contract the fact that I'm sitting here a year and a half and I'm still asking them to provide us for the 7th time now you know a way for us to have priority for our residents you know if I was a service provider and my customer says I need this information I probably wouldn't wait a year and a half to provide it right now that said it's December 23rd at 7:30 or 7:15 here this is an emergency meeting I'm not sure that the freebie contract constitutes an emergency especially when we've had according to their records and I'm have no really no reason not to take them at face value that we've had over you know 10,000 people or so and use the freebie since we got hit by two hurricanes um you know there's always more than one way to skin a cat right it's $750,000 roughly for the freebie contract on an annual basis now if the community tells us this is a beloved service and I've certainly taken advantage of it many times myself I've seen many residents who've lost cars uh after the hurricane uh that I've been using the freeb I was one of these people that until last Monday I didn't have any cars uh and I used it several times myself not to say I couldn't have used Uber or something else um you know but our community apparently has been using it even with the reduced population that we currently have um so if it's a matter of $750,000 one of the things that was on the agenda for January 14th as part of the discussion with the freebie is well can we charge for the freebie make the freebie free for our residents right or have a $1 charge or something minimal but charge visitors $4 $5 a right and again we don't have those but the preliminary numers show that if we were to implement something along a fee of $4 to5 for visitors that would offset about Clos to to 50% of the cost of the freebie so we could eliminate the freebie and save the money or we could start charging for the freebie also to your point commissioner they've approached us multiple times about doing advertising which added somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 to $100,000 uh depending on the type of advertising and so on that was never something that the community seemed to want uh certainly none of the previous Commissioners were in favor of that my my self included um the last thing you know we need is rolling Billboards I think part of the charm or so of the freebie is that you know looks like a beach ride right now whether we need to rename it from freebie to four Bucky you know um but but the point is simply you know there's more than one way to save $750,000 and and one of the ways is through what the city manager has proposes as we review our fee studies right if we can have the freebie which provides a service to the community for both residents and visitors and for employees of the businesses um but then also we can reduce our cost you know we we could have our cake and at least eat half of it too you know um and so you know to your point commissioner um Marriott I'm not sure that this contract right now constitutes an emergency the day before Christmas Eve um I think this is something ' already had it scheduled I think there's additional questions that I have after seeing their email um I think it'll give us an opportunity for the next three weeks to communicate with our city manager and City staff get all those questions have them come in give us actual data so that if we were to charge $4 how much is it if if we charge $5 how much is it you know can we have a resident priority program and all those things and and actually make a decision not in crisis mode but rather make a decision based on you know facts and information uh from both you know the provider from our city staff and and more importantly really from for our community you know I'm I am shocked that so many of you are here and and I appreciate that I'm also I wish you weren't here I wish you were at home getting ready for Christmas rather than having to deal with the freebie uh tonight um so so those are my my thoughts would be to to table this conversation um until the you know the appointed time on January 14th which is what where we already had on the books um so that'll be my recommendation um and again I'm you know I'm happy to have conversations and have tough conversations with our service providers and we've had several really tough conversations um but I think there's again there's more than one way to get to this to the outcome that we want and I think we should explore all those options rather than just saying okay you're out or here's your notice um I know if we if we did that tonight that would force them to come to the table but I'm willing to bet they're watching this conversation and they hearing is loud and clear that maybe the way it's been operating hasn't necessarily been effective for our community um you know that there is room for improvement of the service that there's room for providing a better service and a better product to our community that we're paying a a large amount of money for um so I think many of you have something to say on the freebie so I would like to invite audience comments John kman cman be under way I've appreciated the freebie during this time of being a one car family having lost our cars too and and I'm just going to do a little history lesson uh these are slides I've used at earlier meetings um these were slides that are are traffic or are tra or whatever manager used um and and showing that this was the original projection for freebie and one of the questions that came up and we never really got a straight answer was whether we were really even paying by the car or the driver because these being electrical electric vehicles after they made I believe it was six round trips up and down the city they had to charge for hours and so drivers would they basically have to sleep in the vehicles uh and then they said well you know we keep we have two extra Vehicles well are they extra because we're paying for them or are they extra because we're not paying for them are they included in the count so do we have when they say we have this many vehicles are they included the number of vehicles we count or they in on the on the road so what are we really counting how many vehicles are there re really and then they say well they have a 45m minute meal break and that's when they charge the vehicle are we paying for that time or aren't we um and and so it's really you some of the questions for next next meeting are you know what are we paying for and the vehicles are supposed to be street legal that was in the RFP but they're not are they street legal because street legal to me means you can have a you have you can have children in them with a car seat but a lot of these vehicles can't have car seats these electric vehicles so uh you need to maybe have something in the app that if you have a child small child you're going to get a car could have a car seat um and then there's a tip question so you want to ask again about what's the policy on tips because the contracts said no tips um I mean I like giving a tip you just have to make sure we do it the way you you want to do it and then the other thing would be in the contracts um we have different you know pricing that came along when we added vehicles but in December of 23 they gave a sweetheart deal they said you know if you add four cars and extend the contract early will'll give you a special price which the commission said yes we'd like to do that then they came back and said well you know what we we want to do that but we only screwed up one thing we gave you the wrong price let's just go ahead and do the deal but with a different price um and then uh there was back and forth and from what I remember I believe they then came back and said okay we'll we we'll we'll go back and do the price we said and I think the city manager at the time the actic city manager did sign that contract which I think means you now are signed for the two years um but so but you know there may be cancellation language um and then they have but then they also were going to be bringing in new cars and getting rid of the electric vehicles but I still see the electric vehicles there so the question is what happened because they they were going to replace them all with some other vehicles from what I heard and then there were these other vehicle types so what's their story on vehicles and I saw they have these nice big Vans in their Fleet and so maybe we can get a combination of big Vans for party and small Vans and other things uh again just just to make sure that we're precise and and accurate in in the history of this uh there was a discussion about um still sticking with electric vehicles but moving to Teslas um which would reduce Ryder from 5 to four uh and at the time the commission decided that they wanted uh to maintain the uh the golf cart the gem looking vehicles um there was some delay in getting those um that's why they brought us the Teslas and ultimately they were able to get the new vehicles in um that they're supposed to be more efficient and and last a little bit longer thank you Richard Nelson if you please state your name and address for the record start looking Richard Nelson uh 4950 Golf Boulevard number 1006 um first of all I want to thank you all because yall made a very valid point each and every one of you that spoke um and especially mayor patrilla because it is 7:30 and uh yeah I have better places to be tonight myself but I'm very passionate about freebie uh personally I have epilepsy and I was almost in a very fatal car accident about two years ago so I no longer Drive uh I work for public supermarkets and uh have for many years and they have been very beneficial to me getting me to and from work but not only that I've watched employees out here on St pet beach in passag Grill who shop at my store um getting them to work getting them to the store uh provide a huge convenience for them uh not only myself um also I've watched visitors that come to St P Beach that maybe they can't walk from the publ on St P Beach to the Tradewinds with bags of groceries um they don't take cars out here they get rides out here and it's a huge convenience for them so I'm just asking for that convenience although it might be considered a luxury or something that we can't afford um that we really consider looking at this very closely are other ways sure um but not everybody can pay $30 for an Uber okay occasionally do I depending on where I'm going and going to work yes if the freebie is not available but that's not reasonable for everyone especially those folks that are coming to visit us or those folks that work on pass a grill um freeb is up at 6:00 in the morning getting some of those folks to work they're getting them home from work reasonably andur they'll probably give them a tip a tip I do and I always will whether it's free or not free um but I think it's very important that we take into consideration our residents as I've heard many of youall mentioned our visitors that are here and those that may be just like myself might have some medical issues and I can't drive and I will never never drive again I'm only 56 years old I will never drive again so something like this is very important I think not only to our community as we get it back together but also personally to to folks like myself and I'll just repeat myself I heard earlier that there was going to be this meeting and although I still have some things that I'm trying to wrap up at home after a long 12-hour day I felt it was important I was here today thank you thank you sir Deborah shner if you'll please state your name and address for the record um good evening deorah shner boa Sea Isle Drive in St Pete Beach Florida you know we always have to think about needs and wants not only in our real life when we're spending our money but also for the city before the freebie and I think they still exist where Vans and golf carts that were free and you tipped and they seemed to do a really good job and they were were advertised with all the you know hotels and delies and stores and all of these kinds of things so we did have something I find the contract for the freebie to be really poorly written and only benefits freebie so I would like to open up discussion on redoing the contract they get we get 120 days if there an act of God they can pause and stop we have an act of God that's not allowable in the contract so there was I think in my opinion some very poor um situations and it it's just really sad and I understand that people need a ride I Come From New York I like public transportation um it costs us a lot of money to do the freebie and originally hotels had said they would chip in that has not happened so when we're transporting hotels and their workers they should be either paying or giving money to those people we don't have a lot of residents here right now as far as my neighborhood's very very empty will it be empty for a long time no thank God but the free was good because people would drink and drive but we also had that other free ride that would serve the same purpose so I think we have some negotiating power here unless the contract is Ironclad and we cannot look at it again but perhaps saying that we will take a look at the 120 day 120-day cancellation to me it's almost you know beyond absurd maybe we have some negotiating power here to lower the cost the Tesla was they pushed for the Tesla big time at that meeting big time it made Absol absolutely no sense for our beach and that was not the look that we were going for and again I think we have to take a look at wants and needs and let's figure out how we can work this want and this partial need into a new contract right now it's not working for anybody I'll admit I only took the freebie once and I had to ask him to stop and take me home because it was taking so long I miss my meeting so I've not used it again that's my experience thank you and merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah and happy New Year thank you Tanya mclen if you'll please state your name and address for the record uh Tanya mclan 6363 golf Winds Drive Unit 434 um a lot of what's already been said are things I don't even have to address you kind of talked about them my question would be is there any way to tie it to the flamingo app with bus system um I've lived here a year I bought a place down here now I've had to live through two hurricanes and devastating circumstances and that type of thing but I've ridden the freebie quite a bit um part of it is just parking is a problem I parking is a problem down here I have a lot of friends I'm from the Midwest that all you can pull up my Facebook they all chimed in about how much they use it when they're here it's been a service to them I do think that we need the opportunity I didn't realize how that contract is just ridiculous and I I I think we all agree that that is probably the biggest part of the problem with it even as a resident if I'm going to tip them I'd be willing to pay for it waiting for Ubers there's many times I had to wait for a freeb because of the way they changed how they were pulling people through so it was like if I had a dinner reservation and you can't wait but I'll also say right now Uber rates have gotten so ridiculous and you're still waiting 20 minutes I mean I've waited 20 minutes half an hour to get an Uber down here and it's hard a lot of them don't want to drive the short drive so we so now you have no option so now it's like if you have to get in your car and drive someplace then you either I mean I have a one drink roll if I'm out so I can't go to dinner and have a couple glasses of wine or do any of that so either I don't go or I don't drink I wrote in the morning several times there's a lot of people service people that have lost everything they lost their home they've lost their jobs for them to try to get back a lot of you know bars have picked them up knowing they going to have their Staffing temporarily but they can't afford an Uber they've got an Uber to and from work it eats up all of what their tips are so I've had these discussions and as far as the number of people down here it's sad I can't believe how quiet it is down here but most of the people that have a residence here have have no place to come to so they made other arrangements so the drop with as you said the number of people riding there just isn't anybody here it is so scary quiet down here I just I hope that we can find some option that would serve both the residents but I know most of the people that chimed in on social media would be willing to pay for it they don't want to have to rent a car then they've got a car here it just that's more congestion down here that it was already bad last spring it was ridiculous I mean it took you 20 minutes to get down Golf Boulevard just from trade wins to go around the corner we don't need that but we do need an option and if there's something that you guys can come up with that would help the residents here and the tourist let's find that I mean if it's negotiating a new contract because yeah we didn't know what we didn't know when we got hit by a hurricane beginning you know I know we know didn't get directly hit but it's just like there's got to be a better way to to do this without eliminating it completely thank you thanks Lea balanis if you'll please state your name and address for the record my name is lla binus I live on Hermos in St Pete Beach and if you guys don't know where Hermos is that's not only all the way down in pasil that's across the second bridge on being at Delmar that's a lot to go I also up until recently worked down on the beach at toast and monkey for a couple of months I didn't have a car so freebie was my way to get to work not only is that my way to get to work that's a lot of people's way to get to work right now I know so many people who lost their cars and that's the only mode of transportation they can get right now everybody's caught up with their insurance issues but because I was working at a bar you know how many people drink and drive you know how many people get an accidents we see it all over Facebook if you put somebody in a freebie that's another person that's not driving after they're drinking I mean it's it's hard to say yes everybody's going to be responsible everyone's going to call an Uber or get a a free three Beach ride and but it's so much easier just pull up an app and just say hey I'm going down the street going back to the fact that not a lot of people have cars there's a lot of people that rely on freebie as their job right now there's a lot of residents that have lost everything and I personally know a couple of them were so excited to get the call saying hey we're driving again that gives them income come so they can get back on their feet that gives people down in pass the gril or anywhere that was hit hard that they got their vehicles taken away we can get to the store we can get our groceries it really it really the contract definitely needs to be worked on but it's something that we definitely need here in the city that being said eve of Christmas Eve I agree with the mayor I don't think that this is an emergency situation but I only found about this found out about this meeting about 5 hours ago and I knew that a lot of people are out of town right now A lot of people are out of town because of the hurricanes too but because of the holidays and this was an important thing to come talk about so thank you all thank you Rick Paulson if you please state your name and address for the record my name is Rick pulson and my address is 403 golfway St Pete Beach and uh full disclosure I'm a freebie driver and I've been a freebie driver for over two years I again ride in pass live in passag Grill um I've also worked at Paradise Grill um love living here you know when you get older you want to find a gig and uh freebie is a great job I think I've heard people people say before as I listened to meetings that the freeb drivers love their job so much that they probably would do it for free I probably wouldn't do it for free but there's not a lot of money to be made but um I love it and what freebie does for drivers to try to incentivize them is that you come in at at a wage I came in at $13 an hour and every six months or every I think it's 90 days and I didn't even know this when I started but they get add 50 cents and so after two years I'm at $516 an hour but I love my job I love what I do and uh freebie drivers and freebie is unique to this community I've got some notes here that I that I will probably read off here if I've got time but freebie is unique I mean the drivers in the most part live here in St Pete Beach we know this community we chat with people we give them ideas um I think I was telling U my commissioner a while back that it's not uncommon for me to be in the car have a have a person in that car ask them how they're doing where they're from what they're up to and they asked me about a restaurant or I mentioned a restaurant they said oh yeah we've been there we went there yesterday oh oh you went to snapper oh yeah yeah well we after a while you realize that they've been there for S days or two weeks they've not left the city it's restaurant after restaurant after restaurant it's Pastor Grill it's here it's there what else should we do Rick give us some ideas Rick you've been great enough they go but so I'll get to my my notes here um you know I'm a resident um where I live we experienced uh wind damage water damage flood damage the whole nine yards I'm still leaving there luckily but I understand uh being displaced or having these these challenges is dramatic but I don't think we can undervalue the benefit of a strong transportation system and I think our transportation system is unique I've heard people talk about what it does for residents you've heard me say just a moment ago what it does for visitors and and how it promotes tourism here in our city um but residents do go from from work they go they go to shopping they go to the pharmacy they're they're they're it's it's it runs the gamut and we we take people all over that no way can they drive it's resident after resident it's not anecdotal so that the the value is there to the residents um but as we like inter well whether we like it or Not St Pete Beach is a tourist destination I'll just read my notes that you know tourism whether the person's coming from across the country or across the county they support our tax base in many ways um it affects Hotel occupancy rates local businesses um it takes Vehicles off the road as someone mentioned it reduces the traffic it possibly saves lives I can tell you as a freebie driver there's been times where I wonder about some of the cars that are on the road and I will pull over at St Pete um sheriff and I will say hey I've noticed some things I think you need to be aware of I've noticed people um walking as they shouldn't walk drunk people and I've I've tried to you know stop all those things from happening but there's a lot of danger out there when you have people on the road it shouldn't be but um in fact tourism is why Florida I believe this is correct Florida correct me if I'm wrong later but tourism is why Florida doesn't have a state tax it's because T tourism pays that for us so in many cases these local the local residents excuse me local restaurants the boutique hotels they I believe some of them only survive if we have a strong tourism dollar and I think the share wallet is important in these cases and I think when a business flourishes it benefits us all and a good Transportation model I believe is key to that success so visitors choose St Pete Beach I believe I found versus other communities due to its unique Vibe and it's and in it's many local restaurants and hotel options from Boutique to big but I believe they also choose St Pete Beach in great part because of this unique Transportation model that we have you know why wi rent a car or taking Uber to mad beach Treasure Island downtown St Pete when you have a great restaurants entertainment right here with free to door dto door Transportation I believe that res residents excuse me I believe that visitors as you said mayor would be would happily pay a stien to take freebie thus offsetting a portion of the costs and then by the way any realtor will tell you that a good Transportation model directly affects or impacts housing prices I'm going to skip around I'm going to skip past all these notes I haven't just cut you the chase that Mar you said earlier that um you can offset some costs through advertising through charging some of the visitors for for that um I believe through looking at this contract and maybe digging in on the time the amount of vehicles that are out there and and uh I think there's about 50% that we could cut out this contract by by taking um um making some adjustments thank you sir thank you for your time Grant Izzy you police state your name and address for the record yeah gr Izzy 203 59th Avenue um wasn't planning to talk on freebie tonight and I apologize for doing it because as you said Mr Mayor um we have way more important things to be doing this is not a critical issue right now I agree with everybody is positive feedback on freebie I love it myself I also agree that got to look at the contract and make sure that you know physically we're doing the right thing in the city but this is a distraction to your main task right now of getting the city and the residents back in their homes and it's also a very tactical discussion and a more strategic um subject and that's the overall budget for the city and how and how we're going to get through this crisis and come out the other end and then if we need to make Cuts somewhere where are we going to make those cuts but you have to do that in a holistic conversation you can't take an easy target like freebie you know and and honestly waste everybody's time over this because it it's part of a larger discussion so I I'm just you know apologize that this thing even has to happen tonight because it's really not appropriate um and I hope and encourage you to focus on the main task for the city and that is getting the residents back in and and then making sure that we can get through this next year physically and we can come out the other end of it and so that discussion is a big discussion that's got to happen and I know a lot of residents would be willing to help so that we can do this together okay so thank you for your time Merry Christmas every month let's go home thank you Christopher Hollands if you please state your name and address for the record good evening my name is Christopher Hollands I'm at 401 Golf Way a castle hotel and uh well I'm I guess I'm looking at the history of this the freebie and if you go back all these years and we go back to PSTA and I don't know if you all remember the buses running up and down there in front of uh all up and down passag Grill and I don't know if this is the chart of PSTA that we have to provide utility like you know transportation is water electricity Transportation I don't know where their Charter begins and ends I don't know where ours begins and stops uh but it seemed to have been a a win for the community so far I mean adjustments can be made but if listen to the comments myself I use the freebie all the time uh I think it's been a wonderful asset I hope we're able to work out something because to go back to the other way I I can't tell you over the years psda is not necessarily our friend and we are not alone uh there's other uh municipalities government entities that would like to virtually usurp our amenities or our beautiful places our people our everything's and uh they're there I mean they want to they you know they'll put the buses back out here and St Pete will be running them out here and uh you know they'll do whatever they so you you know if we don't have a solution they will provide one and I hope everybody has a merry Christmas good night thank you good wishes thank you okay so I'll again make my recommendation that we table this until January 14th do we have consensus on that yes okay thank you that concludes the discussion on the freeb next we have item 3C commissioner moland you had an announcement uh yes uh I will be having a special district 4 meeting at 5:30 p.m. at the war Webster building uh on Thursday uh and this meeting is specifically and solely for um discussion on the Zero damage homes who received SD and non SD letters thank you sir okay with that we wish you the best Merry Christmas and a happy and amazing New Year thank you everyone come