e e e e e e e e e the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and Justice she is here ah oh she had her hand over her heart too that was good okay so you guys are matching hi yeah know I didn't get the M okay I had to L okay Madam clerk roll call please member Hurley present member young present Vice chair Hawkin Smith pres member dashel yes chair Lowry yes we have a quorum okay first thing we have on this meeting of May 2nd 2024 is the approval of the agenda um before we do that I would ask that the information items that are in 6A and B if we could put those before the discussion items and the reason I say that I think they have in that talk some things become relevant to our discussion items specifically with the LDC divisions 20 20 and 40 and I think it would help clarify if we could do that first and I can be more specific if you want or we can just do that unless it's a problem do you need a motion in a second to move well we'll just be replacing six and five and the motion would be I move to approve the agenda with the change okay in that regard I would move to approve the agenda with that change second member young yes Vice chair Hawkins Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes vce Cher Lowry yes motion carries okay next is uh the audience comments having seeing none we'll move on from that next we have the approval of minutes has anybody I besides myself I'm sure had an opportunity to read the minutes from March 7th 2024 and do we have any motions associated with that I'm going to make a motion that we approve the minutes and the workshop and the regular minutes of March 7th of 2024 I'll second that motion roll call please Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes chair Lowry yes motion carries next item four is action items election of officers for the years 2024 to 2025 uh we have to elect a chair and a vice chair for one term um for one year a one year term excuse me the I'm the current chair T is the current Vice chair uh anybody wanted to have discussions about anything um I would just say I've done this I I appreciate you all supporting that I'd like to continue on only because we're in the middle of this you know uh redoing all this stuff and I think it it's helpful for me perhaps to sometime get information from the city when there's issues that they don't always give out to the whole uh group so does anybody want to run for chair or run for vice chair or how do yall feel about that or how do you want to vote I'd be willing to make I was going to say I'd be willing to make a motion to appoint Bill L's uh committee chair for 2425 I second the motion and third four okay well I guess we have to do roll call sure member dashall yes member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes chair Lowry yes motion carries okay for vice chair Tia us still want to do this anybody else have any interest Happ to still do it someone else wants to take a shot I'm not sure even I mean my term I don't know has been officially extended so I don't know good point yeah well the reality is is if there's changes made there's changes made and there's changes made and we we can always reelect at that point okay in that case then I'll make a motion for uh Tia hockin Smith to be the vice chair for 2024 2025 I would second that motion member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair hogin Smith yes member dashel yes chair lry yes motion carries yay didn't have to put up a sign or anything housekeeping out out of the way we're all set yeah hi terara did did you hear me a moment ago we we're going to put the information items before the discussion items I don't know if you heard that which means because there's some things in the information items that I think is going to be relevant to our discussion when we get to that so you know bear with us okay all right problem okay so if we go next we go to the information items uh a is the exclusion of properties East of 19th through 21st Avenue from the pasc overlay district and just to remind everybody we had talked about that I think at the last meeting uh because on the zoning map that commercial area there does not have a slash pass a grill behind it which defin which usually is the indicator that the overlay applies and so we were wondering wondering how or why that wasn't included in the overlay whe that whether that was a mistake on a zoning map or or sometime in history whether there actually was uh discussion about that and I know Brandon found out some information and so if you'll tell us about that so just like you said um staff performed a little bit of research and I think there might be a little bit of a disconnect between the the purpose of the zoning District which says all properties south of 32 are intended to be within the overlay and what's actually adopted through the zoning map back in 2003 when the entire city was rezoned to our current zoning designation um I wasn't able to find the uh the audio but I was able to find the minutes and it was intended to leave out the properties between 19th and 21st um the other properties that are in the sorry south of 32nd but not in the overlay include the fire station and uh the two Residential Properties that we'll be talking about in Item B uh those are also not within the overlay those properties were rezoned in 2019 I believe um but they were also not in the overlay prior to that they went from the institutional zoning to the residential medium so I just wanted to bring this up um I know it was a point of discussion last month or two months ago I guess now and if you had any questions I'd be happy to try to answer for them can you tell the the board here what the reasoning behind let me just get ask this first so in 2003 when they rezoned everything at that point this area between 19 and 21st would have been under the overlay just by definition that it was south of 32nd Avenue is that your understanding it was in the overlay back in I believe 1999 when the original overlay was adopted it was in the overlay okay so an 03 they decided to take it out of the overlay and I know that went in front of the city commission and they approved that right and what was the reason that was given for that there wasn't a reason given just from what I found in the minutes it was intended to be excluded but I I don't know what the reason was I thought I read something where you you mentioned something because the marina was already 50 feet high or something like that that the staff recommended that it would be excluded that's something that's that might have been in in minutes somewhere I don't I don't remember bringing that up um and that would apply to the marina but not necessarily to the warf and what's Now red white and booze those correct with the um hold on I think it was in our P packet I know I read that and E Avenue was also outside of that well not at that time it was under the overlay until we did created the crd yeah if you read I think Brandon did a good job on 223 highlighting some of the minutes it looks like because what was being proposed was limiting it to 35 foot feet in height and the fact that between 19th and 20th it was the only area and pass agree pass a grow with a 50 foot height limit they decided to keep it out for consistency right that's in that's in the notes here that's right that to me be as good of reasoning as we could potentially find considering these weren't live streamed right but this is I mean this I'm reading where it says he noted that the only area in pass with a 50 foot height limit were the two blocks were on the east side of 19th and 21st so the proposed zoning was cg1 which also had a 50 foot height limit and the recommendation was that that these two half blocks not be included in the overlay District okay so that clarifies that part because I think next month whenever we meet again I think we need to really nail down these zoning maps and get them up to date again so we need to know why each is what it is and and the concern I have I I understand why it was taken out of the uh overlay what the reasoning was behind it but you know there's other buildings on passag girl that are over 50 ft that aren't taken out of the overlay you know the hurricane the condos down there between fourth and fifth and and and and I think that might be relevant later when we talk with terara about certain stuff as how we need to think about that okay um and I would also point out and I don't know the answer to this but is where red white and booze is and the warf is those are I imagine historic structures you know if they've been I know they're in a historic district and see that's the ne next overlying issue we got to talk about okay because this toric overlay only applies to those parts that the map says they're part of so that commercial Zone that is right now which is not part of the overlay it's still part of the historic district so how do we deal with that do we need to create a new Zone like we have on 8th Avenue where we deal with that specific issue of H of because you know half that property has a St homes on it that are only one story high the other one has a marina of course Marina is a great thing to have and you know can we grandfather that does does here again that area is kind of in the heart of passag grill right at the intersection of Vena where the traffic light is and do we really want to remove that from the overlay okay we see why they did but do we want to essentially remove it from the historic district because is there any language and I think there might be in the historic in creating the historic district that allows us the historic board to look at that property between 19th and 21st and maybe upon change of use it would be subject to Overlay and and I'm just I'm just posing this as we as we talk forward because you know the as Brandon said the only other areas at the last zoning map that I've seen they haven't updated in a while the only two areas that were not excuse me there was three areas that weren't under the slash overlay the the the CG area there between 19 and the 21st which we just talked about the fire station which is institutional however the church is zoned institutional and it's under the overlay okay uh the yacht club and the Women's Club is zoned institutional but is under the overlay so how did the fire station when was the decision made that the fire station didn't apply to the overlay which we may have to do some homework on that because that essentially leads us into the next last piece of property that wasn't in the overlay was where PMI was that was institutional but it wasn't under the overlay I don't know why not when it's south of 32nd and then of course what happened and Brandon will get that's the next thing coming up is that was rezoned as RM but not slash overlay even though it was south of 32nd and so that property can be built differently than anything else on passag grill even though it's in the historic district talking about PMI yep that's now under RM not rm/ pag even though the cross the street is RM pag and the very end of Pastor Grill is rmp so I'm trying to find out or figure out why a lot was taken out of the overlay or out of the historic district and I don't think the historic board was bought in on that at least I have no memory of that I talked to chair Monroe uh morone he had no memory of that CU he was there longer Sean do you remember then no it's always been list it's always been zoned as institutional was always outside the overlay but I don't know why I know but when they rezoned it as residential it didn't become under the overlay like the property across the street it became a residential it has different rules yeah but it could have been so when you're talking about rezones there's city city issued initiated rezones and then there's also private property initiated reson well that was a private property issued res they asked for what they wanted and that's what they got yes my question is so if they didn't say I want to be rezoned to Overlay then that's so anybody anybody can do that you can rezone a property absolutely without without the historic board knowing about it even though we're we're we're supposed to be in charge of the historic district so they people could just take take it out of the overlay if they want actually I thought we can only rezone to what a neighboring property was so if the neighboring property is RM pag then it should have gone that way it it it's not just neighboring property it also depends on the future land use map so for example in other it does I believe you but in other cities for example they may have because future land use map you have to assume you're thinking 20 years out so there may be a strictly institutional or residential area that the city planners have said okay in 20 years we want this to be a commercial Corridor so the future land use map will have it zoned commercial even though it sits right now institutional and nothing around it is commercial okay get that someone can come in a private property owner and reone that before the city does to commercial because they've already anticipated that it will be commercial in the future okay well that's not what we have here okay what we have is an area that's totally south of 32nd Avenue which therefore is in the historic district and and is in the overlay okay and as institutional it was not in the overlay why I don't know every every other institutional was in the overlay so I think we need to find out why that wasn't put in the overlay to start off with because as Tera said the the last meeting the understanding was everything sou south of third it's it's in the overlay unless it's excluded we know the reason why some of this stuff is excluded I don't know why the reason that why the institutional was excluded from the overlay my point is when they came in to get it rezoned to residential every thing south of 32nd zon residential has the overlay this one didn't so now they're allowed to build something and already in the process of building something that couldn't have been built south of 32nd unless was that information given to the city commission that you were now removing part of the historic area were spot zoning this was it brought was was brought brought to the historic board's attention that hey we're talking about resoning this out of the overlay even though it's south of 32nd I don't think they did and so now the owners of that property they they got bigger value for their property because they can build a bigger house and so now South the 32nd we have new houses that are built bigger than anything else around there I understand so my point is I don't know the answer to that but I point that out out to show you what can happen and once again another instance where historic board is not brought into something and if we had been brought into that inform gotten that information we might have been able to point out to the commission this is south of 32nd it's supposed to be in the overlay it's residential why should these people get a special consideration and increase the value of their property which is inconsistent with the rest of Passa Grill so are you saying there's no residential medium Zone properties south of 302 there are but there SL pag yeah but everyone has the choice they're not the person that only has residential medium can build to the residential medium just like any other property south of 32nd because you can pick whether you want to build but still but still Limited in height your the overlay everything everything is a height differential I understand I and I'm just I don't know how many of these questions we can answer but I'll try no but what with my well no I'm just pointing out the issue that we need to think about when we go forward if you're under the slash overlay okay then you've got to abide by the height regulations of the overlay if you choose to no it's zoned into under the overlay it's zoned under the overlay it's SL pag so it's zoned under the overlay I mean Brandon can answer that question for us so let me ask this Brandon if you know the answer if my property is a single family home and and I am zoned residential medium/ pass pass gr overlay and I decide to build my home to residential medium does do do any height restrictions in the overlay apply to my property yeah any anything in the overlay has to comply with the height limitation in the overlay whether or not they build to the underlying or the overlay it's that's the one element that defers to the overlay in all cases okay so for the residential medium like Cher lry mentioned they do by being outside the overlay I think they pick up three additional feed um in in height that wouldn't be allowed if they were in the overlay if it was a property initiated then there would be records of it well but I'm assuming it was CU I don't remember doing any they're already building the houses spilled milk at this point I'm not trying to cry over it I'm trying to show how it's important we tighten up all this stuff as far as the maps goes and how they get used and also how the historic board should be brought in on anything on master grill of any nature should be brought in front of us because that in my opinion I my guess is I don't think it came the historic board didn't know about it and I don't think the Commissioners probably knew what they were doing when they when they voted I guess to make it RM without slash pass the grill overlay why do you take a piece of property and give them those people an advantage or everybody else and as you see when we look at the for informational purpose look at the houses they're basically four stories which is inconsistent with pass a grill so anyway I didn't want to dominate I'm just saying that's a real issue that I think we need to talk about how we're going to look at some of this other stuff because you know things happen all the time uh you know excess docks are built things of that nature and it seems like sometimes you The Gatekeepers this is not to Brandon but you know we have turn over a lot we make mistakes and then by the time so I'm going to say again like I said every month if it's something in pass a grill we should be told about it and especially if you look if you read at the the division about the establishment of the historical board it says we shall know every get information on every building permit in the historic district we've talked about that before does that mean if you want to change your light sockets no but certainly if you're going to build a house we ought to be able to know what's going on before they start breaking ground so you know I just I I there's no going back on this I'm sure they've already they're already in the ground and and in building and have been for months and uh you know the resolution we had that the other day did I know there's been basically an agreement that the city would show us things on pass a grill that weren't necess the overlay but doesn't the resolution cover that as well too didn't we basically say that in that if you remember I just don't remember say uh what specifically that like new houses being built on pasc even if they're built under the underlying Zone they're going to show it to us for information purposes I I could have sworn there was an informational aspect but yeah that's what's on the agenda I would need but that's but that's why it's on the except for as I as I've said before the time between getting a permit and the time of digging a ditch is usually months and and I and I I do not want think the board has to wait till they start building the building before we find out what the plans are because if we had seen these plans before we maybe could before they made it we could have said hey how did this get rezoned this way did everybody know that they were removing this from the overlay and and these two houses get special consideration that nobody else is getting how did that happen who voted for this what information was given to these people because it's clearly south of 32nd no question is south of 32nd are we going to start you know if the fire station decides we're not going to build a fire station we're going to build a four-story house there does that just get that just happened without the board know what's going on you know so I think we got you know I'm I'm a little suspicious about the information that was given and how it happened and I point that out again to say as we move forward we've got to consider those kind of things and tightening up these zoning maps and knowing what we're going to do 10 or 15 years from now and that's why I think this commercial area that we talked about when it gets removed 20 years ago from the overlay everyone just forgets about it cuz nothing's been built on there for you know but there's historic structures on there how are we going to deal with that if someone decides they want to you know for example join Joiner of lots all right is there anything that brings historic board and on Joiner of lots that isn't in the overlay that gives us Authority for something that's not in the overlay does it give us Authority in a historic district well then you got to look at the language of the historic districts to talk about Joiner of lots in the historic district if somebody wants to come in there and buy between 19th and 21 what's going to stop them from putting up a a huge 60 foot condo along the whole Waterfront there that's you know things that can potentially happen and so we've got to keep that in in mind when we start thinking about how we do these things and you know I'm suggesting thing not for today but for future discussion we talk about making a special zone for that commercial area just like we made a special zone for 8th Avenue and so I so in that regard for next month's meeting I would like to have a discussion item about and Tara maybe you can help with us that too is how we might create a new uh you know zone for the that commercial area everything across the street from that's commercial is zoned rpag so it's just that one area right there and then the fire station and now what was PMI but is now RM without SL pag so so would you be looking to have the P extent because we do have commercial standards in the P I know this board hasn't seen any developments yet but there are structures that would be subject to the same design review would you like to see the P extended to the east side or would you like a overlay yes but but then if we do of course I would and that would be the simplest thing but then that affects the height right it would yeah so we can talk about that and see where that gets us but uh I mean the the original intent of the V overlay was to include those areas so um the design criteria excluding the height would all meet that it would be a preference to keep that and just expand the boundary and you could address a height or allow that um those areas where the height was in the commercial um when I originally did a little bit of design for those areas I don't think they could yield the height and meet parking so that's in in some ways uh that was a concern that I had was you know having the 50 Foot and then having that taken away but um I don't know design wise if you can even yield it there's other there's other content involved in that and that is the parcels are owned on both sides of the street and therefore the parking wasn't really an issue it would be solved by owning both sides of the street so we need to probably take that out of the equation in some fashion because the reality is that's they would combine those two blocks together and then they would take over the commercial on the opposite side of the street which is owned by the same property holders and that would solve all their problems for yeah it has to go through your process though they combine a lot not not if not not if it's outside no I know but I'm saying if it just goes into over yeah right and that's what I'll bring that up later when we talk about the changes we talk about about we have to be cognizant that what we're going to be talking about later what you've done is only overlay and if it's a removed from the overlay then we we have it has to be somewhere else if we're going to be you design criterias don't apply uh height requirements don't reply and so so that's why I wanted to bring it up and talk about it now before we just suddenly burst onto that later on yeah I mean I appreciate the conversation I do think that um um the goal um today is at least for the the code is to be okay with those standards and then I look at it as a separate discussion um that you know what are we going to do about the areas that are outside of it but I I don't think it influences the code that you have in front of you the two divisions I I don't either we not sorry I so I don't either I just wanted to bring it up now so when we talk about the code and minute we'll understand there's there's things down the line that will make more sense we may have to deal with correct yeah yeah me y okay well with that I mean anybody have any comment but uh as far as the informational items I guess we talked about the exclusion do does anybody want to have con conversation about the new residences in that area I was talking about at 30 3101 and 3105 I do have these questions so those those houses are what is their they highest height on those if you know sorry to Brandon appreciate it and by the way I'd like to say I think they're one of them in particular is a very nice design the other one's pretty nice pretty nice too so it's not the I have to applaud the owners that they've made them look pass a girl like you know in a way so so it's it's not that issue as opposed to that that they're not under the overlay so looking from grade to the highest point of the roof The Ridge of the roof they are about 49 ft um that's 5 feet taller than what would be allowed under the bay zoning and it's it's variable because the overlay affects the pitch of the roof so it's going to it's going to affect the height but it's probably about I'd say six or seven feet taller than what it could be built under the overlay and also it's my understanding without the overlay too that they they are allowed to be do a a class b dock a commercial dock there as well which you can't do in regular pass that that would go with the up and use so they would be limited to residential docks so that the two slips and what is the uh what does f mean I know it's different under when you're not the overlay that's floor area ratio it typically doesn't apply to residential but that would be the square footage of the enclosed portion of the building okay it's permitted and did you could you do you agree with me basically those are four story structures yeah with the with the walk out and the the top you the the ground parking and then three levels yeah okay I did want to say because you brought it up earlier um these are the only Residential Properties south of 32nd that I'm aware of that would be able to exceed that height limit the only times that the city since I think it was 2007 when the institutional and these properties were taken out of the overlay um since then the only zoning out of the overlay has been to crd 8th Avenue we've had a few on Seventh and on 9th that have been rezoned into the cdea but um we haven't had any zonings out of the overlay since then so yeah I'm just wondering and and I guess I don't have to have the answer for this but I since everything was supposed to be under the overlay and you gave the reasoning for why they took the commercial area out there but I somewhere out there there's a reason or there wasn't a reason why the fire station and PMI are excluded because I said other institutional things were under the overlay yeah we've we've narrowed down the time I mean we can look up when it was done it would have been by ordinance so I I'll have that information for next month right anybody have any questions about those informational you know the information on the two homes being built okay I guess not so I get that we can go to now to go to discussion items and that's the Land Development code divisions 20 and 40 for draft review and Terry you want take over now thank you Brandon not [Laughter] really of course please yes well good afternoon everyone um Tera salary um so before you is the next iteration of division 40 and division 20 the first couple of pages has just been um kind of the running t of what's been updated and changed you as a board have already looked at the majority of these changes the ones that are highlighted in Gray are as a result of discussions that we had um in I think one of the last workshops um the one it might have been November we had some discussion so I just wanted to update the table and address so if you look at the the summary it'll tell you in a gray highlight what sections got updated they were all updated as a result of discussion so if you'd like I can just give you a highle review I don't know if we necessarily want to go Page by Page or if you want do you want me to call out that page and then you can look at it for yourself or what's the what would you like well of course I'll be a pain here I'd like us to go through it because th this is the last time we really do this until we go to a workshop with the City commissioners and and explain this to them is that correct is that your I mean that's the goal un you have some issue with that no no no I don't have any issue at all but for example I I think there's might be a couple typos in there and things of that nature that I think we probably should clean it up I mean we don't have to read it out but we should go to each one and say you know section 2001 purpose and intent anybody you know how do people feel about that is there any issues or anything we got to take care of I don't think it'll take too long honestly um well respectfully I do okay think that's going to take um what what I would say is is can we just address what the changes are and um if there's scriveners or some other issues we'll go through that again um you know I just want to be respectful of the time um that's a we're we're going to go through 58 Pages line by line every single section and then try to get through the cdea okay okay I I I'll back off that I mean I'll just I have a few notes I'll just point them out if I see it okay okay um all right so um we're gonna just go through the Section 20.01 uh that starts on uh page one of division 20 and there's just been a comment that it was either passag Grill overlay District or passag grill historic overlay and to be consistent um instead of spelling that all out this passag Grill historic overlay District it'll be referred to as p a g h o d and that is um the very first paragraph there was also some discussion on adding historic contrib structures to the language and that is mid paragraph where it starts with compatible with the character of existing historic contributed structures so that was the other um request and that's been updated if you head to page four um in four this is going to be a discussion that we have had with staff and then also some the questions that have come up in um 2007 this original paragraph it will say the last sentence in that paragraph in addition any new construction cannot exceed the existing developed square footage we're updating that to livable developed square footage um it was never an intent that it would be um nonh habitable space so we're clarifying that that's the livable space that um um cannot be exceeded um 2007d as in David um I had um Council and I've updated those to commission it's the very last part of the sentence on D and page five is uh section 2 20.10 the reduced setbacks for contributing structures we updated the table a front yard to have a footnote instead of the 10 ft and um the footnote reads not to exceed more than 3 feet of a variation from the average historic setback as described above so um we're allowing that variation we've set that Benchmark as the board requested and the only other um little small thing that changed that I did not highlight that I'll just kind of go through too is um maybe we had done it before but section 20.14% [Music] on 21 20.4 and also can I just say this I know it's here in 2011 20.11 is there a typo I mean just re that sentence is even if the first blue sentence even if the parcel does not meet the minimum lot withd depth standards and can meet the setback requirements does that mean it's not you cannot meet the sex back requirements no they what what it is is that it's deemed conforming if the lot width and depth is not um a minimum standard that's that's okay as long as they can meet the setback requirements okay thank you I I'm just confused all right and on 20 on 2014 which I don't have any problem with any in any of that but that goes to the argument I was just talking about or the discussion I was having before about this this assembly of lots vacation of EV all that kind of stuff only applies the RightWay stuff so it's not going to apply to anything that's in that commercial area as we talk right now yes yep okay I just want the the board to be aware of that that we're not it's not taking care of everything in the historic district it only takes care of what's in the overlay and and um asan night yes CD and the overlight right yeah okay correct go ahead I'm sorry yeah you're correct um and then the only other um item that was updated is at the end during the General Building design standards um I had the design guide book as part of the submitt requirements but it really should have been in just a different section so I've moved it to the appropriate sections which are 20202 General Building design residential uh you'll see at the after pool location there's the design guide book and then all of the text and language about the design guide book is now housed there um there has not been a change and then 2023 also has the same um reference to design guide book and then um 2024 design review and required drawings I added uh just a sentence on identifying through the use of the design guide book how the proposed project is meeting the intent of the district so that's just um tying together the um soon to be developed design guide book what that guide book's role is and then to have the applicant um ALS also have to show how they're doing that and that um that is it for um for that Division division 20 okay I got a couple questions y sorry of course and and first off I applaud what you did I loved how you added those things about design guide book and the additional language you did about the historic character all that kind of stuff it's really good um I have a question though on page 23 of the 48 where it talks Building height and it says underlying zoning District shouldn't that really say shouldn't that have the what you know that it's the overlay information yeah okay it should okay and the same on page 25 commercial mixed use even though I don't how many of those really exist but anyway that also has the underlying Zone that's just the housekeeping thing but no no thank that and that's also on page 29 the building right yeah and single story commercial building small it says underlying zoning District y same as on page 31 I think it's just you know I can understand how it yeah each house happen yeah it's each building type yeah yep and then institu institutional building it says the on page 33 three it says the height is 355 is that is that what it is is that Brandon are you not on your head that's what it's supposed to say there I'm okay with it if that's what it's supposed to say but I didn't know so currently for non-residential it's variable some defer to the underlying zoning some have a height set like institutional um it it it varies but 35 is what um was intended okay and I'm I'm really more concerned since they're talking about building a new fire station is that going to be enough height for them and stuff you know off hand what the drawings they've showed us so far don't know okay just pointing that out so if um it's that typology is only for permitted and existing institutional buildings but that's already in there right and it's not in your overlay but um I I would prefer to write a footnote in that height that says uh maybe increased upon you know historic preservation review or something that that'd be great I mean I think that's fine I mean I I think for example if the fire station needs to be higher and everybody's happy with what it is then why would you know they're going to have to have a lot of variances no matter what they do yeah yeah I know you typically don't do a variance in height though do you typically not no but they got a lot of setback variances a lot of other things to storm water okay um I I'll add something in institutional okay all right um I'm just trying to see if I yeah page 41 out of 48 on the building type 2017th under commercial it has refer to underlying zoning district and since we're kind of getting rid of all of that right if it's really in the yeah yeah yeah I'm going to do a search that says underlining zoning and then okay then replace yeah okay and and then uh I I I I love the language in 2018 that you added about uh using the alleys and things of that nature is on page 42 of 48 what I'm concerned about is it says there under C1 parcel butting an alley of at least 15 feet and do does anyone know whether the alleys are platted at 15 ft or more I mean is that going to ultimately be a problem or because there are some alleys now that are almost unusable and I think that's more because the city hasn't kept up with them so but if we're going to we make a requirement that new homes have alley access we want to make sure that they actually can do that otherwise we're going to be in a conundrum and that could be something we we can determine for you know when we when we meet with the Commissioners or whatever you know uh for the workshop doesn't have to answer today unless Brandon you know something right so generally speaking I don't know of any Alleyways that are easen believe every Alleyway that hasn't already been vacated is a platted alley at the width that it's maintained of course we have several that are you know maybe 15 ft wide but because of encroachments or you know seven eight usable feet of space but um I I don't I don't know of any that are easement I believe they're all platted alleys no I know about they platted at 15 feet that's what I'm saying um not I think they're all planted too but what I'm saying is are they planted wide enough to meet this criteria um most of the ones south of 30 sorry 22nd I believe are 15 they're platted at 15 several of the ones North are 10 right and somewhat yeah it's a whole different situation mhm so what if it just didn't have the the the feet and just that it's platted is that doable the reason why there was feet and it can be removed but I'll just tell you the reason the parcels of bding an alley of at least 15 ft um that that was uh just a criteria to be met that would then um State um that they could not Place parking in the front yard of the zoning lot so it was giving it was giving that specific standard to an alley that had the 15 ft versus alleys that didn't and if they didn't have that um then the allowance to park in front would be able to occur okay okay I guess that but and there is a distinct difference in the neighborhoods south of 22nd and north of 22nd and the way the the alleys and the way the house was originally built and things of that nature so so it may not be that practical of a of a problem but what we don't want I suppose we we want to make sure people use their allies if they have them and not have a curb cut in the front and and waste not only do they put a car in the front yard and a garage in the front yard but they take another parking space away from street parking and so are we making a standard here that's impossible to meet so everyone's get to get a curb cut or will this if we say 15 ft will this put the onus on the city to to to clear out some of those alleys that have been encroached upon so people can use them there's probably a few of those out there I know we talked it one time about doing an alley survey or having staff doing an alley survey to see you know where the encroachments are cuz I know there are some fences that are out inside the Alleyways and some certainly a lot of I believe there's a survey of the alleys going on right now probably is there's an actual surveyor out but the the next thing you along that line is that maybe that's maybe that's all a moot point if they have to come in front of the historic board to get a curb cut on the street cuz before they don't have to do that and so the city can just say oh you know yes you get a curb cut yeah but they got an alley in the back there well so they asked for it we gave it to them we could make that part of the design review then is that is that what you would like to see and but but it's nice that you know we're telling everybody you know most those old houses do use their alleys south of 2 second but there's a few that that haven't the new the a lot of the new builds are parking in the front you know in the front and it and it changes the character of the of of the neighborhood I think so I mean it's okay just to leave it like this I think that's fine but if if if Brandon would add that to the design review would kind of be a insurance that you know we in do you want to add do you want to have um Parcels without alley access shall be granted a curve Cod so that's it um you know it could be a review I could add a sentence in that C1 about um any curb Cuts oh no that's clear I I know what you're saying I just I didn't know if I should put like a sentence in on that curve Cuts now here here's how we get here here's how we get around car you remove the 15 ft and then you add the part about the design review okay so basically what you've got there Parcels of budding an alley okay have to go in the back and you know and if they and if they can't they have to go do design review and then under under SE yeah suggested too yeah we can just remove that the 15 ft and add the part about design review under under C1 a alley uh sh sh not Place parking in the front yard of the zoning lot there will be provided driveway to the primary Street should be done with it okay yep and then they can come in for a variance request to prove that they can't have a gun and then at that time then that would kind of signal um that um the city that would be a hardship for an applicant stating that they didn't self-create that so if the alley is not usable then the city would have to be uh reviewing it and determining if they're going to make it accessible or are you granting a variance because it it can't be done right I I agree with that entirely I just want to make sure that that kind of request we get to know about that's all I'm saying so okay I think I think I think we're good on that all right okay um and also at the at the on 2019 alleys and driveway this is this is probably not necessary but under the under e one and two when we're talking about uh circular driveways or more than one alley I guess or one more more than one driveway and we talk about what you have to do is that something that would then there get we would get access to that we would be able to review or is that something Brandon you could just say we're going to start doing that because what I'm concerned about and I I'm always concerned about is is the city making decisions about things in in in the historic district without taking the historic district into into its you know informational Circle I would that need a certificate of appropriateness to do something like that or you know to do what to do a uh a a circular driveway right I mean the reality is probably not too many that can actually even occur right no not not what's not based on what's currently drafted if it were to be proposed for a new home you would see it as part of the the design review but if a an existing property were to just apply for a circular driveway you would not currently see that right so the lots are mostly so small that no one would want a circuit that's a hair pin turn unless they're on a corner and they could have a curv cup on one side and one on the other side for a corner well is that something that we should we add some language that that that that that needs to be reviewed by the historic board in in case it comes up I'm just you know trying to Fore about any potential problems what what exactly would you review it against then what would your determination be to support or not support it well would it fit into the surrounding neighborhood would it fit into the effect the character of the of uh the mass and scale around all those things that you know have something that we're supposed to kind be paying attention to is it a driveway that accesses a garage or is it a driveway that just accommodates more off street parking it doesn't distinguish between the two right so all I'm saying is you know what's the harm in that being something that just gets brought in front of us it's another step I know for the applicant and at the end of the day they could still do it why how could they do it at the end of the day you are advising them that unless we have something in here that okay but but that's that's what Tara was saying what are you going going on to be able to to do a review what are you basing a decision on well I'm going to say this goes back to what we talked about earlier just a minute ago when that institution was reasoned not being under the overlay that if the historic board was able to give advice on that I bet they wouldn't have done that and so the problem is a lot of the decisions being made are being made by people that don't know the historic district and the historic district is supposed to be we're we supposedly exist to protect that and so I think you know we can say well you can give the advice and the city commission can do whatever they want yeah sure they can but they we're supposed to be able to give them information if they're making in decisions without the right information then whose fault's that then they can make just a more thoughtful ision yeah or what I would recommend is well first of all the circular driveway I don't think goes to the commission so I want to be sensitive to just um the process for an applicant if there's a need of a circular driveway I would say um it so here's what I would say is item one overall landscape plan I don't believe that you as a historic board need to determine and and review if that if the over All Landscape plan is not being met I don't think a circular driveway is going to change the mass and scale of something um you know but what I would say is an item two the impact of the landscape and elevated building criteria if that needs to be reduced then um the justification shall be provided that demonstrates a need for the driveway the prim you know the priority would be Transportation circulation so I think two if you're in one you should be p and two go to the board for review and then you then you can look at the elevated building criteria see what's being reduced determine whether or not it's Justified um for it item overall landscape plan and the screening um if it's already met you know I think that's kind of a I I think that's over I I agree and as I look closely as my at my notes I'm actually wrote that note next to number two and not one okay so so how about how about deter by the city and and review by the h HP board for two and because I can see if the if the elevated building criteria needs has to be reduced I do think that you should take a look at it um and I I don't think if it's an impact to the landscape you know depending on um if it's a total removal then I think you should look at that too but so I think if it's it's just stuck to two you'd be fine wouldn't you yes and last that was my last comment on Section 20 and you said you had another comment no that's it I'm I'm that's the only comments I had on Section 20 done done for the day oh no we're not done for the day we still got 40 later 10 of 11 and for the record it's only been it's only been 59 minutes that we've been meeting so far you took the first 30s something doing something that I was involved in but it was helpful to listen to um okay so anyone else on um on the p h because we um then we can move to the cdea one thing sorry the design guide book so that's something we're going to have to put together is your is your belief we would put that together before we present it to the workshop for the city commissions commission no okay but we'd have to have it before we actually had a vote on this by the city commission right and then as we're I don't think so it would be a a sample depend you can just add it kind of well if you if we're doing what I think T and I have discussed we're referencing a design book that we will craft just like our code references an employee hand okay perfect so I mean if you're worried about timing that could take I don't know a year yeah exactly so what I'm saying is we don't that's something we can add later on yes that's why we're referencing it you fear yeah you don't have to explain I'm fine it's separate and then we we can Workshop that and I think that's probably what's gonna take a lot of time because it's just going to be photos and that that's super subjective but yeah um yeah because if we present all of that everybody's going to get in the weeds and really the regulatory is the most [Music] important I mean in this process not at the end it's just as important to have it but not not to not to amend the code um okay so um are we ready to move on to division 40 I think so okay so on division 40 I added um the purpose and intent to be pretty consistent with the um division 20 so that's that's been updated so on page one on one comment one one comment I like like all that stuff at the very end when you say within the district District that's the only time the word district is used I think can we maybe put within the crde EA District just so we're clarifying that it's not the historic district or whatever okay um all right so then we're going to come to [Music] 40 dash I mean 48 which is Page Three is it page three yeah yes let me see if I got this oh yeah uh 48 Building height height sh not exceed 35 ft which includes the base flood elevation I said 40 on the the form so um I think I need to update that to 40 that's what you as a board I remember discussed right uh I can't remember now I know we didn't we I saw the the difference between the two and I don't know if we settled on 35 I thought we settled on 35 as a maximum based on way of the original crd yeah that's that's what I think I think it's was the chart to be right yeah the charts this is right and can we go I'm sorry but just one thing again back back to 40 on page two of the seven on 40.4 able conditions in use in the structure and and I apologize but you know I was a lawyer and had to look at take apart ordinances and statutes all the time and and and look for things that were essentially inconsistent but so 404 also addresses rooftop uses okay but we've got that as subsection B all right and in subsection a two that gives the historic probation preservation board approving the request but B doesn't have that historic board being involved and that's going to be potentially a Hot Topic in the future about rooftop dining and drinking and stuff and so I'm wondering whether that should also be have just like we have A2 we should have B2 you follow what I'm saying that how a A2 A2 applies to the designation as historic and the historic preservation board approves the request and so why can't we have B also have a subsection in that case would be one but it say the same thing is A2 the you know so the historic board because the way this reads I would say the historic board is is cut out of Mak of being involved in rooftop dining dining having any information or any input on that I would agree would you want to include outdoor dining not just rooftop um I ask um isn't rooftop dining in another section of the code yes which code though it's well it's not in this section right it's so there's subject criteria in a different section outside of the crde a yeah it would be outside of it no but it it's a Citywide restriction okay is that section 6 no 6 6.24 yeah it's a conditional use permit right got it um yeah I mean you can add it um that there's no point sorry I just read it because I sure there's a point because that you don't the point is we would have to know what's going on we wouldn't we wouldn't have to know what's going on if if if they just put it through the other part of the city all conditional use per I mean I'm just saying there's a Citywide you can't just have outdoor music I get that you'd have to go through a process conditional use permit okay so let's say let's say which is a city commission public Hearing in which as a board you can show up and speak well how do we know we can't we can't add to the cup process that's not that's not what I'm saying no but it doesn't hurt to be redundant and that this too comes before the board well but it won't that's what I'm saying but why shouldn't it be it's in the historic district we can't just add to the you'd have to amend division four as well you're talking about amending multiple sections you can't just say any cup in the historic district must be reviewed by the board okay no no no no what I'm saying is you're looking at I understand what you're saying you're looking at it as a condition president that the bo we would have to look at it first before anything else could happen correct okay and I'm saying that we should be able if if want to say review for ADI advice because what happens sometimes is we don't even know about it until it's already done so yeah we can come speak the issue if I may uh and we might just need to take I don't know how the conditional uses are done and what I'm hearing Matthew say is um I mean because that's a quasi judicial action and it's spelled out what um and who is part of that process and the board HPB board is not part of that I don't know legally how that can play out so I'm not prepared to say yes or no at this point I understand what you're saying I'm just with a conditional use permit because there is a process I don't know if it could just be an information that you that you're alerted to it but you know that's something that defer to Matthew on whether or not that's okay to okay okay let me propose process because that's a you know not only that we have yeah we have statutory requirements let me propose that a little bit different so let's say we don't do that but you know have this resolution how you're telling us about stuff that you don't really have to tell us about just because well you know what you you yeah you forgot what you you forget what I'm saying if we include that as just even it's for informational purposes again if it's something in pass a grill what's I don't understand the difficulty from the staff point of view if it's if involving something in P in the historic district that is something like rooftop dining which people are going to have strong feelings about why we just don't get in the loop does because to to some extent and I obviously mean this respectfully you guys are also citizens of the city there's advertisement all over the property that says public notice there's public meeting in which you can come speak at and and if I may finish there is a 180 day shot clock in the statute in which from the moment they apply we have to have a decision made which means staff has six months from when they get an application to process it work through conditions and get it ready for a public hearing I can't guarantee that within that 180 days we can find time for the HPP to hear it okay I get that but then how does that reconcile with our duties to preserve and protect and all the set the Integrity of the historic district if we don't know if we and to give advice so how does that how does that how does that you got to speak you got to speak to your commissioner yes yes okay you got to I can't control what the commiss SS to you no I understand that point but my point is with what I'm saying is we're as board members we're supposed to do certain things and the city and the staff is supposed to help us do that according to some of these statutes in here okay and so my point is if we're supposed to be able to give advice why do we have to give it as Citizens as opposed to giving it as the board because the reality is is unless the commission wants your advice sometimes they don't feel like they need it and I hate to put it that way but I get and then we have things like it just I can't just require that you give advice if respectfully the commission doesn't seem like they want it or need it to make a decision all right well I think that that's part of the problems we've had all along when decisions get made like on the alleys and stuff that create a bigger problem for the city afterwards I understand I just there's only limitations and if this language is put in there and I get a question I want I'm going to say the same thing I said to you I just want everyone to be on the same page I just said i' back I would back off that having add anything and just say would that be just something that for information AAL purposes because it's a passag grill issue it's a historic district issue that the city is aware of that involves something not just like changing a a light socket that we I mean red white and booze applied for outdoor music and that didn't come to you but but we had 45 people show up from p a grow You're darn right and and public hearing like that a public hearing notice is posted and one of us sees it and says hey we should talk about this we can't unless we're here the problem is it's Point well not only can you not because you're here but it's also a quasi judicial proceeding in which the record is the meeting so I can't have a different board talking about this item without both parties present aka the applicant here as well court reporter and you got you know it's it's bigger than just go ahead and review this there's also an appealable record that we have to create see your point so if one of us were to show up at a public hearing and say I'm Tia hoopin Smith Vice chair of the historic preservation board this is my opinion and I would like to see this and other applications like this come before the historic preservation board you can do that and to go up step further carry some weight if you're appealing enough I mean to be honest in the commission they can make a condition of their approval that the HPB has to review it and that to me is legally sufficient okay yeah I think that's the best I mean when it becomes a qualified judicial matter it has to it it's going to get really complicated unless the commission directs that as a condition that's I mean I 100% agree with Matthew on that okay I'll sh up um conditional you're just dangerous without having complete Direction um and as a board for you all to discuss it becomes a problem I we here I think we we can move along I think Matthew gave good advice so and you good and you too every every now and then I get lucky on the um 403 I did the exact same language on the Assembly of uh or lot split of a parcel vacation of easements rways and I'm seeing some uh um little spacing issues there but um so that's the same that got added um 404 d as in David building facade you all wanted to say that the prefer that arcades were a preferred design feature so I added that and um The Narrative on the design guide book again is the same as um division 20 that talks about the design guide book and it also in that's in 404 and then also in 405 the design review and required drawings it also talks about um the identifying through the use of the design book how the proposed project is meeting the intent of the district so that um that to me is um you know that particular sentence is going to be very helpful when anybody comes to the historic preservation board that you can ask specifically how they're meeting the intent and then um that'll have to be presented okay one thing on page 707 under C about the historic preservation board shall review to ensure compatibility of with new new construction Renovations or additions within the P overlay District we should include the cdea as well right since it's not in the overlay [Applause] District should not say overlay District it should say within cdea District okay this just a carry over that's right okay with that um I am open to any other comments some questions or honestly Tarra I really think you should start from scratch yeah let's go let's read line by line that was a better no I think this is yeah we'll we'll help with [Laughter] typos I wish I can that's what I need to work on is a little fuzzy like image if I don't want to answer a question just become a cat um the only thing I me I think on these two divisions we're good where we need to be for you know getting it ready for the um workshop with the commission do we have any idea about when we might do that and then we said this I was actually just trying to think about how we would even coordinate this um so you I think definitely a joint Workshop right I think I think for the to explain what's going on we're gonna and Tera you'll okay so I'll be present not in Zoom okay um so with kind of a big agenda I'm thinking I'm mentioning the beach ordinance maybe I can mention this as well on 5:14 to the commission during about about getting a workshop yeah yeah and then just say hey we've been working on the overlay and if if if I because what the clerk will do is send out a doodle poll okay which is like a yeah yeah yeah yeah everyone picks the date and she picks the one that the most people are available okay but we have a lot of um you know budget and no I understand saying and so and and and I guess when I was saying before I was thinking we might have to get a guide book by them but we don't so that makes it less less time no because the guide book itself no I get it yeah Tara are you gonna I mean I can talk with you offline about we may need to get another consultant involved as well get because it's going to be a in my opinion kind of a beefy book yeah um because they may make changes right you guys and it may change what we put in right the book itself we have a good one to start with but anyway so I don't know how much stuff they have to do how much prep time we need if if any to do the workshop with them or if there's any unanswered questions it doesn't really appear like there is about what we've done here I would like to have some discussion about here's where I'm I'm thinking down the road here we want to ultimately present all our Pro issues to the commission I think we talked about this or just do have them you know eventually initially vote on 20 and 40 and then like we want like I said if we want to make a special zone out of that commercial area there with some maybe some different standards so it fits it more into a historic district do we want to try to get that information to them at the same time of the workshop or just do that later because my then this is just my this is not legal advice this is just I would focus on the progress that you've made I agree okay get it over just like we kind of Cherry Picked the resolution out got it approv rather quickly I would probably just focus on the pass to grow overly okay because there's going to be a lot of advertisement that needs to go out two public hearings um yeah and we we may we will have a special election in August so who you're having your Workshop is not necessarily who's going to be deciding proving it you may have to have multiple workshops okay so I guess what I'm send is this I me I guess I would I would just focus I would have the workshop be specific to 20 and and do you think that's a workshop we could get in the next month or six weeks or I I only say there's a lot of people that are probably not going to be here at different times during the sum kind of just depends on everyone's availability you know it would be nice to tag it to when we normally have the meeting just because the one commissioner who can't come till later at summer just not working I just know at last meeting there were like six or seven meetings in May that Wayne mentioned neighborhood meetings and so I don't R I don't know okay well I think I mention it they hopefully they say yes and we issue a doodle poll and then whatever day is available is when we do it all right sounds good but I would start it earlier than this meeting if possible if everyone's available I was thinking oh yeah I guess we'll talk with the commission but I was thinking like you know noon 1:00 2:00 that's fine workshops remember are not public comment either so it'll just be kind of of you and them and and so based on what you said Jennifer Doo you think I mean would is it advisable to try to do it in May June or July is what I'm saying I think so as opposed to after we get new votes because we just have to recreate the wheel right yeah yeah I would I would say um because the beach ordinance is picked up too so I'm going to be requesting a joint workshop on that um and then we'll just kind of see whatever dates work I know people usually travel for the summer but just make sure you respond to the doodle poll okay um I think that's we have anything else we need to I think we went through everything right I think I I would like for for the next meeting if we can just people can have some thoughts about uh and that I don't guess include you teror but just has some thoughts about what if we want to try to do something other type of zone for the uh just so we start thinking about it the commercial area there and I and I would like to I have a question about signs historic signs I remember how one time we did the uh Bon a and and so maybe we can just talk just have a little bit information on what the qualifies for that kind of thing and what people might have to do if they do that independently or if they've already got a established place whether that as part of the residence I just don't know the rules I had somebody asking me about that well we have a sign ordinance that we're going to be well and that might affect everything I I mean it will I mean well obviously by making at least it used to you could take a make a sign historic and you could probably get around the sign ordinance I don't know about that I know there's legal legal nonconforming remember we hear from when the Bon a got historic you talking you may not have been here so you know the Bon a has that huge neon well I do remember didn't we just grant a variance for the put putt the sign that was an old sign what's we did that was for a for a new sign they were installing yeah but it was like to keep the same the size keep the size just cuz so I mean there there's ways to do it it's just going to be dependent on I haven't seen the version of the sign ordinance yet but I can I can tell you there will there will be some kind of I don't know if it's a specific to Historic signs or more of legal non forming but there will be something there and the benefit to the Bon Air and other historic signs is that they can be taken down they can be substantially improved and put back without needing to go for a variance it's effectively a cheaper variance but for example probably under the new signor couldn't bu build that sign that's my point you know so because it's so it's kind of protected because it's been made historic and and also any sign that would be declared historic would have to go through the local Historic Landmark District uh Landmark um designation what would would that be ask talking about that now would that be separate even if the house or the building or the is already historic and the sign that went with it it could be attached it could be related be part of the application the whole property well anyway I or or could be separate on it all right just what whatever maybe we can just add that just to get an update or spefic so I will say just generally speaking resolution was a big deal this is a huge deal right I think you guys need to understand like this is a a big thing that you guys are initiating and my advice is to really prepare and focus on this overlay because it's going to take a lot to get it over the Finish Line I know I know there's a lot of other things to focus on but if it were me I would say okay we're making some serious changes here and you should really put 100% of your effort into it I agree and I think the the biggest thing is trying to remove the underlying Zone although it seems that that seems to be to me a no-brainer why have historic district if you don't have to abide by it you know so is this going to be a situation where the staff is going to make a recommendation I I mean I don't think I think the commission is going to definitely ask questions no but you know how we usually get something that's prepared and says St I think I mean for the workshop I I don't that kind of just depends on timing oh yeah not for the workshop gotcha okay I'm way prepared but Tara will be here in person and she can explain most of it um okay is there anything any else on the agenda I don't think so is there ly's got oh sorry a whole bunch of stuff damn it can I go now the B okay sorry can Tera you're done I suppose I think okay so five b sorry good job yeah hi terara you have to stay the whole time hi Tera well when you said do give 100% that's what I've been doing today okay so right is okay 5B flood mitigation options for historic buildings then that is very true um so as a CLG the board is familiar with the secretary of interior standards for rehabilitation in 2019 the Secretary of the Interior published additional guidelines for the flood adaptation for rehabilitating historic buildings in a text only version and in 19 in 2021 those specific guidelines were revised to include diagrams illustrations photographs and text changes by this time staff had given the board a couple of PowerPoint presentations you all may recall relating to the city's vulnerability to flooding today I'm going to briefly provide you with a information regarding St Pete Beach's overall vulnerability to flooding kind of as a refresher and also provide a general overview of the 2021 guidelines for the flood adaptation for historic buildings given the length of the publication which is about 142 pages I think thereabouts and it is was attached to your packet for you to rousse in your leisure um I will provide you with an overview of these General guidelines today and then and a follow up sometime this summer it could be at the June meeting but it maybe it won't be depending on what you have on the agenda but we can follow it up because what they do is they have developed certain guidelines relating to Historic properties and the historic and and you know the Secretary of the Interior has endorsed all of these and they were written by the Secretary of interior National Park Service so we're going to consider this to be one of your training and educational workshops you may decide to not use it but you also may decide that you want to and as you're looking at some of your rules now you may want to just think about some of these today we're not going to talk about those specifics we're just going to be giving an overview okay in general flooding risk has a long has been long a major challenge for many historic properties and communities that's including St Pete Beach changing weather pattern stronger hurricanes extreme weather events sea level rise nuisance flooding King tides and continuing development in flood Plaines are some of the causes of flooding and flooding events are occurring at an increased frequency and magnitude and you know we're probably experience experiencing that here in St Pete Beach I know in my neighborhood in St Petersburg we're experiencing just that more and greater flooding the king Tides nuisance flooding especially um and especially within certain specific areas of the community called repetitive and severe repetitive loss loss uh properties that's tracking of flood prone areas some of the most severe that historic survey that was being done by University of Florida and pineis County and doing some survey work in Bel Vista is doing this it's a three phas three-year phased project they're doing this um in Bel Vista and they have surveyed close to 150 properties in Bel Vista they started at the south end and are working up and they were piggybacking on the survey that we've gotten that's going to be surveying Bel Vista and also um the Don cazar neighborhood and that is ongoing right now we'll get into that just in a little bit in a couple more in a few minutes so I'm just going to give you a brief overview of the vulnerability assessment I believe four of you were on this board when I gave the presentation in May um but Daniel was not so we have flash flooding in dozens of locations throughout the city we have King Tides which are astronomical and they grow worse due to sea level rocks by the way the highest point elevation point pretty much in the city of St Pete Beach is about 5 feet above sea level that's not very high sea level rise is longterm and accelerating Noah Noah's office over in St Petersburg near bayoro Harbor has been monitoring and tracking sea level rise in Tampa Bay since the been 1940s the last I heard um is about n it could be a little bit more over what it was now now over what it was in the mid1 1940s so that is increasing and it's giving rise to more and more flooding issues and when we have severe rains and flooding issues it makes those flood floods worse so storm surge also normally that's dry land flooding caused by Hur hurricanes but an abnormal rise in water generated by storm above the predicted astronomical tide and but even a storm surge you know can be impacted by sea level rise so these are pictures uh some of them relate to our city some of them are just photos from elsewhere but they include um okay I think I need a change of glasses a large larger land I mean sorry excuse me water threats nationally would include different things like your king Tides Storm surges wave action sometimes it's just High Tides coming in and and saying that the Don's our neighborhood is a prime example of some of this kind of flooding like the upper middle where the water comes in especially Where The Boat Lift is and it comes every day sometimes it's higher sometimes it's lower depending on whether it's high or low tide but yet they have flooding every day in the streets there and these are pictures from around St Pete Beach and just a few more different types of water threat you can see especially storm surge inundation and water that just re you know once it comes in it may stay there for a little while and efforts to try and take care of some of these uh problems through different sewer treatment options for example and some of the things that it does to the landscape like beach erosion and you see a couple of folks on the far left side walking and they're up to their knees in water and these just are increasing over time but increasing in severity and also in frequence king tide specifically is a combination of a graval pull of gravitational pull of the moon and the sun on the earth when that happens we get King tides and King tides are fairly uh much urrent in portions of St Pete Beach king tide flooding especially I think in Bel Vista in one of the severe repetitive loss areas near the entrance of Bel Vista so just an overview of the flood mitigation options for historic buildings would be this they they re they really follow the guidelines for guidelines for you know renovation I'm sorry renovation for the reviews that we do for our certificates of appropriateness you know we go through specific things every time we look at a a certificate of appropriateness but this these guidelines build upon that and the purpose of them is to provide to provide information about how to adapt historic buildings to what is would be more resilient to flooding in a manner that will meet the Secretary of interior standards and the Secretary of interior understands that it's going to be something that's going to be a little different and if it's not applied to historic buildings if you tried to do that to a building that was not a historic building it wouldn't fly it wouldn't pass muster you would not be able to do that resilience in this publication means the capacity of a historic property to withstand and recover from a flooding event and also Secretary of interior states that they should be used in conjunction with the guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings that are part of the Secretary of interior standards and like the guidelines for rehabing historic buildings these guidelines are intended to focus primarily on historic buildings and their sites and their settings this this just a picture of someone coming out of their house and this is in Miami Beach I was going to say it's not Brandon it's first time it's not raining and it is a day typical day at high tide or perhaps a king a king tide and and it's getting worse so in general these treatments are described in the gu described in the guidelines are a means of preserving hisort properties located in flood prone areas and making them more resilient to flooding hazards these flood events can be especially damaging to historic buildings and may require greater adaptive treatments while many of these treatments can be undertaken with minimal efforts to on the historic character of a property some may require more change than would normally be acceptable such treatments are generally not appropriate when a historic building does not have a flood risk the treatment select should selected should always be one that minimizes changes to the building's historic character and while many of these treatments can be undertaken with minimal effects on the sort character um some may require more change that would be normally acceptable was that a duplicate slide I think it might have been so adaptation treatment should reduce the risk of flood damage as much as possible but should do so without destroying significant historic materials features or spaces the National Park Service again has developed these guidelines for adapting historic buildings and they've gone to specific now uh beginning a couple several years ago where they just said in 19 in 2021 you know some of their directives and these directives are going to provide us with information concerning ways methods and techniques to ensure the preservation and Rehabilitation of the historic properties they're important to they've used nation's Heritage but nation is also local Heritage you know we have an a national register historic district and it is definitely in a flood prone area and there may be things that we should do to consider whether how to protect them from flying the historic preservation board does review pertaining staff reports for coas now and this includes the review of those standards that are codified within National Park Service regulations and they are integral to a COA review intent of these standards is to attest in the longterm preservation of a of a property through the retention of its historic materials and features and they do Encompass the building site and setting or related new construction this is an example of a historic building the aftermath of a flood where water swept through the building and an awful lot of damage to the interior and probably the exterior as well this is a picture from a number of years ago it is in um I believe it's in Wisconsin and it's called the big flood of 1933 but when I saw that picture I think that we've had times when 8th Avenue has come close to looking like this using the guidelines unlike other versions of the guidelines which are organized principally by material or building feature the guidelines on flood adaptation are organized by flood adaptation measures most common treatments undertaken to create more resilient properties have been included in these guidelines and are described using definitions provided by FEMA and some of these adaption adaptation measurements or treatments are planning and assessment for flood risk reduction the temporary protective measures site and Landscaping adaptations protect utilities dry and wet flood proofing fill the basement I don't think that applies to too many places around here but uh don Cesar's got a basement there may be others Elevate the building on a New Foundation Elevate the interior structure abandon the lowest floor or move the historic building purposes of the guidelines as you can see through this diagram is to reduce flood risk that's feasible and affordable and maintains the historic character the use of these guidelines should only be applied to Historic properties within an established risk of flooding area City treatments that might not be considered in other contexts because of their impacts on the historic character of a property may be acceptable in the context of adapting the property to flooding hazards and so what we're going to do at this point I'm not going to go any farther with this presentation because when you go to what you received you're going to find that they're going to get into separate segments and you know things dealing with various measures of a building like you know it could be many different things even the Landscaping whether to elevate it or how much how to do it how to maybe change the interior or exterior material materials of the house and it was Mike Clark's presentation on his house on B Vista in Bell Vista last month that you know really sparked me to go back and look at these newly published guidelines and see that maybe we need to take a look at them so from that this point on in that publication they have varying topics and under these varying topics they will then have some measures measurable standards to look at and to consider and so we probably want to just take a look at this between now and the next time we meet I'd like to do this in June but if there's too much on the agenda we can postpone it further out but just to start getting into these things and thinking about how the board might want to recommend treating these historic properties and where we might want to go how we might want to use these standards which we are allowed to do there maybe the nfip does include provision that provides for relief of these historic buildings from certain flood plane requirements the provision is applied at the discretion of the state or local governments and might not be available to all historic Property Owners it's not designated or I'm sorry it's not designed to reduce flood risk or insurance rates so the insurance rates you know are not going to be accommodated or reduced provision for the historic buildings within the nfip allows for alternative compliance when prescriptive flood code requirements would result in a project that does not meet the standards for rehabilitation however using this provision to avoid taking any steps to address or minimize the flood risk of a historic property is also not recommended so at our next meeting or next meeting where it's we have the time to start to get into this we should do a I believe that we should do a continued review of the guidelines on flood adaptation for rehabing historic buildings planning and assessment for the flood risk reduction might even be something we might want to consider in a manner we've done before um where we would do televised Workshop where we would actually be seated and be going through some of these ideas and having more like Round Table type discussions I don't know if that's a possibility or not we can let the City attorney can let us know if something like that might be possible a televised Workshop is that what you're asking a round table portion of it perhaps or maybe something eventually where the citizenry even could come in and be a participant of something like this not immediately not so month or two but as we start to look at these and see what might be feasible for St Pete Beach it's a great question um are you saying televised in that we all attend virtually because all of these meetings are televised including workshops like they're all on our website streaming that's true but um that might eliminate some public participation ability but maybe we don't want to go there yet okay but you know at some point we might want to get an idea of how the citizenry feels about it I think we can treat it similar how we're doing the flood plane management ordinance where it's all like a town hall so if people have questions there is a panel that can answer some of those questions and then guide us to the direction the community wants okay that sounds good and I think that that's it of the presentation so far I just wanted to give you an overview of it look through that look through that publication you know you've got all all pages of it and it's pretty in-depth and it's pretty serious but you know there are ways that we can they're giving us ways that we can strengthen our historic properties and districts and you know really maybe find ways to make an impact on protecting these properties from serious flooding events Wellen I think it would be really nice if we could um maybe at some point and this would be voluntary by a a private property owner maybe do a case study and investigate that particular property see where some of these processes could benefit them and and calculate the cost for that I think it'd be really informational for for the public and for these building owners I could do the Warren Webster that's great project love that L we're still getting mold out of it so I love that too that's a great case study yeah my parents would probably also be willing purchase the fence they've had water in their garage yeah a lot last couple of Storms and lost all their plans this is what it looks like yeah I agree I'm a big case study component Lynn are you aware of any grants for private homeowners you know like there's the Florida by safe homes grant for wind mitigation are you aware of any state or federal Grant programs for individual homeowners you've had besides I know there's a grant for lifting but lifting your home um but I think you have had to had water intrusion at least twice in order to apply for the grant do you know if there's anything out there any resources that are available well yes and no I mean I I know that there are grants that can be applied for if you had a severe or repetitive loss property but that goes it's not related to Historic I don't know of any that are specifically related to Historic but I can look into it and see you know and I'm working I'm still working right now with pel County and the University of Florida on this three-phased study that they're doing they're surveying number of properties in flood Hazard areas that that have experienced repeated flooding loss of and this is from dunen to us and over to St Pete and just you know the and Tarpon and you know several other communities and they are this is a three-phased project and this is the last phase I'm sure that they're going to be making recommendations in their report and I can contact them and ask them because we we meet about two weeks every two weeks virtually and I can get I can ask them you know if they know of any funding for this sort of stuff other than the typical federal grants where you know you have to have enough losses for it to be worth worth doing and then you know they're still not going to consider the historic preservation portion of it that just is for them for the beds in that way with FEMA is a non-starter speaking of historic grants why don't you give us an update I will be glad to do that this was really good information that you provided and and I want us to start working through some of these things that was loud when I was doing your um presentations before back in 2020 19 2020 it was that was that had only come out in text and they did not have any anything really concrete with all of the kind of things they're showing now with the options it was in the development stages they didn't have pictures they didn't have diagrams and charts and what have you that that this now has by 2021 we were done going over that stuff for a little while and that's when the publication came out but then you know we were busy on lots of other things and so we really never quite got to this so I'm now like squeezing it in a little bit you know our hurricane season is coming so historic grants we have a historic Grant right now that is underway in the B Vista and doncesar place neighborhoods they are going to be surveying minimum of 333 properties and they've pretty well been chosen by mapping and ages and so these are underway now there there was a little delay it it kind of got Jen can probably explain this a little better than me but basically it just was with what was happening late in the fall of this past year it was just really difficult to get that started but now it is underway we have been given a two-month extension to do this and you know hopefully our our consultant feels that they will be able to finish up and that time period because we asked them how much additional time do you need and they said about two months so that should be done pretty soon later later this summer what's the new deadline date pardon me what's the new the extended deadline completion date on that it's two months from June 1st well I'm sorry June 30th I think it's going that's when the consultant has to have it into us but then we have to have we have to review it and then send it to the state by the end of June June 30th so the two-month extension you know is going to Encompass that and do you have volunteers that you need for that or do you need any more volunteers for that project I will ask now in addition to that you may recall that I applied for another historic grant for the Cor Avenue area and I was taking you know last year with our other grants I think about the highest we ever scored was 36 on the list and I felt that Corey was a really competitive Grant and after writing a few of these grants I thought I wrote a decent Grant and we are 21 on the list which is under the million dollar Mark and they usually have at least $2 million budgeted for the grant cycle so we will know Sometime Late July early August if we've gotten the grant but given its ranking I think that that indicates chances are good good shot and the Review Committee I I did give testimony over the phone back in August when the Review Committee was meeting and answered their questions and they seem to be pleased with the Grant application so I'm I've now been okay to go ahead and start a new Grant so I'm taking a look at wrapping up B Vista because there are over 500 properties in B Vista that we need to survey or should be surveyed because they meet that age requirement the University of Florida and pinelis County exercise actually did I think that they were close to 150 properties maybe 153 in Bel Vista for the dantar and Bel Vista Grant we have to do all of the Don CeSar that was stipulated by the state that we wrap up the Don CeSar area and then with what we have left up to the 333 Mark uh property mark would be done with Bel Vista but that's still going to leave us between 100 and 200 buildings in Bel Vista that need to be surveyed it's you know pretty I when I drove through there I know I've said this to you before to me it was an incredibly homogeneous neighborhood and just wonderful it's a very little intrusion into it and some wonderful wonderful mid-century modern property varying types so you know I would like to do that as far as know finish up B Vista maybe pick up what's there are a few pretty historic looking properties on uh Vina delar and um go to What's called I think it's called North Beach up here that's north of Corey we just had too many we were going to have too many properties for the grand amount of money to do that North Beach area but after I drove through it I really felt that it was also ripe for surveying so we can include that area as well and see how many we have left and then you we definitely are going to do a certain number of buildings surveyed if we you know if we get the survey 333 may sound like a magic number but the amount that um researchers charge or Consultants charge to do the floor to do the survey in the floor Master Sile forums write the report is uh it runs a range of $100 to $200 per Florida Master s p form that's done or property surveyed 333 is that middle point so that's why I was using the 333 so that we're not trying to lowball a consultant but not give them the farm too so the consultant we're doing now is is a it's fine with them as far as that dollar amount of money anything look going to see if there's anything else I think that there yes there is two weeks ago I two historic researchers from Tallahassee came down I got a call first and they wanted to come down and they wanted to they were going to look at uh Treasure Island and maybe madira Beach and they wanted to come here and they wanted to look at our hotels and so I went out with that a couple of Thursdays ago and Samantha Schmidt was the lead historic preservationist and although I did not get her last name Al Elena was her assistant and one of the things that they did was they wanted to go around and see the Corey area and so we drove around the Corey area not only Corey Avenue itself but you know the little Mom and Pops they over here to the East and then we went a cross Gulf Boulevard and you know where some of those mid-century condos or apartment buildings are with all the grill work they were absolutely wild about those things thought they were fabulous an excent excellent condition and one of the things that they said to me was they said two things they felt that the neighborhood was right for Main Street and they would be glad to give us some advice on how to maybe bring in Cory Avenue business district to look towards the Main Street possibly I wonder Main Street applications for that or for 8th Avenue I wondered if you'd made any Main Street applications for Cory or 8th Avenue I don't I've not ever gotten any applications I know um Jennifer and I have talked to did talk to some folks about Corey but that I think fell through I'm not going to speak for J but it yeah there's a lot of requirements and part of that do you actually have to have a Main Street manager so whether it's on staff or um you know one of the businesses and their associations um employ um and that's been our hangup I think we meet a lot of the other things but it's um getting the Buy in I think when we talked to the beach theater owners that came up quite a bit now another thing and they were so excited about it they felt that it had I think I said this National register possibilities and the other thing that they looked at because I had sometime sometime back had requested an evaluation from them I thought that our library was National register eligible and Samantha concurs and she has sent me an application which is the the preliminary application for the state's review and then she said a good point of that you know it's city-owned so you know it's not in danger or anything like that and it's been recently restored which they loved um would be that it could be if it you know is on the national register sort of like the Don zazar provided an impetus for historic survey work down south in pass pass Grill and further now with the Don CeSar place neighborhood and belvista because it's got that anchor and some of the times those things provide a good Catalyst to spark people in a particular area so just food for thought I know um and you you also reached out to the state about putting the Keystone on the national register but and this is something I really hadn't realized either that is that because you are contributing because the Keystone is a contributing property in a national register District it's already on the national register so you don't need the lo you don't need local Landmark is fine but you don't need to list yourself on the national register because it's already on on the other token on the other token the sa will Palm in which was the non-contributing building because of the maner roof you couldn't see all of the you know historic architecture that is actually roof line is still under that mansard roof because it's just like a fence around the rooftop but I also told the researchers that for the Sable in major reason why it got in was not was Lo Landmark was not that it was so architecturally lovely but its contribution to the history of passag gril and its involvement in pasag gril since the mid 1920s you know bringing tourism in and all of that which are all part of you know why a property could be locally landmarked but when when they did when the researchers did um the historic survey of passag Grill there's not really a lot of time to do much more than look at the architecture you will find some some stories and some significance but many times you don't when you're doing a survey there's not if you're doing hundreds of properties there's not a whole lot of time to do much research on them so so anyway what but what the uh property owner can do and I will be contacting him shortly is got a form for him to fill out if he's interested to now send in request to the state to change his non-contributing status to a contributing status because it's now been locally landmarked and the reasons for that and that's pretty much going to be contained in the staff report so that was also interesting to me as well that just because we locally Landmark something if it's not contributing it's not going to automatically be contributing that has to be done at the state and National level any questions or comments just thank you thank you very much you you're welcome and next month read up but you know depending on what we do with the pass of Grill guidelines we may not want to get into any kind of lengthy discussion maybe push that on to July we do have a COA to look at next month as well yeah so depending on the workshop maybe even August that could be us homework yeah long as it was not a test oh there will be no math thank you Lynn very thorough very informative appreciate that thank you Lynn okay so now I think we're to 5D mixed use Redevelopment along 8th Avenue Brandon yeah just real quick with this one um we received a request or a just a general question about Redevelopment of a single family residence that exists behind a commercial structure on 8th Avenue I know that narrows it down um they are looking at rebuilding just the residence not the commercial single uh story structure out front I wanted to bring this to the board because it is in um crystal clear and our code code whether Redevelopment of the residence alone is permitted and I want to if we can pull up the overhead so 8th Avenue of course is a mixed use district and residential which is 40.2 a is permitted however it's allowed as a component of a vertically mixed use development and then reading down to 40.4 which is allowable condition conditional uses and structures I know this is brought up earlier single family homes are only permitted when they are historically designated um in in the eth Avenue district and this structure both the commercial portion and the residence itself is currently a local Landmark um the interest is in redeveloping the residential portion of the structure only and I just wanted to get the board's General feedback on this of course we've been talking a lot about height and just Redevelopment in 8th Avenue recently um I wanted to get your thoughts generally on whether this is something the board may like to see um of course it would come before you either as a certificate of appropriateness for demolition for the residence itself or if it comes forward after the amended uh 8th Avenue District takes uh goes into effect you would see the design review as well if this were to take place but I just wanted to get the board's thoughts in terms of instead of having the typical mixed use development which is having the commercial of the ground floor residen is directly above it um would you consider consider Redevelopment especially along 8th Avenue that is more of a horizontal mix or would you like to see a from the ground up um vertical Redevelopment so am I understanding that this term reconstruction in 5D means demolition of an existing building and constructing a new building correct yes so that new building would no longer be a historic structure correct right yes be sure I understand that reconstruction doesn't mean fixing it means knocking it down and building something new yes and I didn't want to get too too in depth on the actual cons consideration itself this specific property it will come forward to you in some way or another I just wanted to talk more generally in terms of the very limited properties on eth Avenue that could possibly accommodate a horizontal mix in the future if that's something the board would consider well it strikes me because I think there's only one property that fits that description right now so I'm pretty sure I know what it is and where it is and that's been there for 80 years probably I'm just guessing I mean it's there a long time way before we had zones and codes and all that kind of stuff I think and you know some of those places along there have residences built above the ground floor and some have built on the back at least one other one I can think of that's actually on the ground floor but it's in the back of the the first floor essentially there's really not a lot of room for property from the you know to to I mean what we're not talking about is knock they clearly couldn't knock down an existing structure and build a house there correct that's clearly you know forbidden I mean we know there was this is there's the one house that was moved there which there's a specific provision that allows an historic home to be moveed you know with all the different things to be moved onto those properties so I guess you could knock a property down and move a house onto it that was historic but I I I it seems like you know this maybe our code didn't cover the specific situation because there's so few representatives of it okay however the way the CR is set up which includes the whole souths side of 9th that's vacant right now you know that's still include you can't have a single family residence so I guess it wouldn't make a difference on new stuff are they talking about though tearing it down and building a new structure we just want to have a discussion about or just remodeling the existing historic home that already exist no it would be a complete tear down and Redevelopment of only the residential portion of the property they they would not be touching the commercial side but they would be constructing a residence behind the commercial where residence already exists correct that's historic yes so so they're they would be talking about building a brand new structure in the crd but it's just Happ to be behind a commercial structure correct of course have to be elevated and yes yeah well I mean with that set of facts I mean I mean I can see how they could take that that structure and do uh remodeling to it and maybe even add add a floor to it or whatever I don't know because that would be you know under the conditions of how you would redo a historic house right mhm but to knock something down and build a whole new structure which would have to go have it hold you know extra floor then potentially you would have a one-story commercial structure with a three-story brand new house sticking up the top of it in the back right correct and of course say you know if it if it's structurally sound they could add the two stories on top of the commercial structure as it stands today or they could connect it in a way that um they might need to flood proof the commercial portion of the building but they could potentially connected and still have the stories above but at the back of the structure instead of at the front this as they've presented it so far would be a detached structure but they still have ways of making it work within the more direct interpretation of the code this would be a this they are as far as I understand proposing a detached structure however so can you go to the overhead real quick sure if you don't mind could you make that a little bit bigger is that possible zoom in uh Ryan or whoever's back there Amy Amy Jamie Jamie thank you I mean we actually have it in our yeah we have this already yeah but I was so your question is would they prefer horizontal as opposed to vertical or just have it as an option if if horizontal mixes and the reason I bring this up is because there are zoning districts in the city that do specifically say that horizontal mixes are allowed we have one that specifically says it is not permitted it has to be vertical and then we have a few like 8th Avenue where it's not as clear um you know given that these cases are going to be coming forward to the board in some way or another right Want to Get Well here here's a question I would have I I would I would just my first blush would say it should just be vertical and not horizontal because that makes the most sense because most of those commercial structures take up the whole lot MH you know so you're got so what would you do how would you determine the setbacks on the house behind the commercial spot you follow what I'm saying I mean it's already that particular location we're talking about or even some of the buildings you know a building next to it they Park cars behind it so you could see how they could add on into the back of some of those structures but you know how how would you determine lot you'd have to be use like a I don't know how that works the mixed use because the front part is up to the sidewalk all the way to each property line on the back so then you've got this area in the back well the front setbacks how how could they even build anything of any size well the front the front is compliant with the front yard setb or the build two line they would need to comply with the side setbacks in the rear they're significantly reduced on eth Avenue compared to other properties so they can take up most of the lot I I think it I think it would be viable there's going to be a probably a larger setback than what's there currently between the residents and the commercial because of Fire and Building Codes but they would they would be able to build at the back part of the lot they would you think they would yes so my feeling on this is as a brand new detached building it's neither vertical nor horizontal mixed use it's a separate use I don't think it would really qualify as a mixed use building if it's not attached to the same building it's a completely separate okay and it would be new construction of a single family home correct it would yes so which is not allowed in no case shallow new construction single family home be allowed I mean but a way to skin that cat like you said is they could just build two extra floors on top of the commercial place in front correct or or have some kind of a connection a horizontal connection onto the back and have a attach the front well they still have in the back that to they have to this is a little bit fur field but if if you wanted to take one of those single story buildings just a commercial floor and wanted to put resident a residence on top of it which you could do in the back of that would it have to be FEMA compliant um at that point I think it would need to make they would need to make the whole structure if even compant if they could do it in a way that doesn't substantially improve the structure but I I can't see that being viable with multiple stories of yeah what I was saying is when we do take a historical structure we allow that I guess the question would be an historical structure that exists now that only has one story on 8th Avenue could they put a second floor on it as residence as long as it fit into the crd which I would say it would right because we they can build a they can build a place now that's has a ground floor of commercial and a second and third floor of residential so why couldn't they take that historical one story and just add on top of it they could with the certificate of appropriateness I think generally speaking there there's some depth to the L and um this this helps but generally speaking adding on multiple stories to a single story structure is is usually not promoted um but yeah I mean I can see how it's it extremely difficult and certainly a lot more expensive than just building something in the back MH but uh yeah I don't know I I just think I think I have to agree with what what uh Tian Holly had basically said that you know if you really break it down it does seem like they're just building a new single home which is prohibited and I think that's the spirit of what this is uh if they want to reconstruct or redo what they already have I don't see any kind of issue with that and I think that would be allowable to come through as a historic structure that they you know wouldn't have to become female compliant or do anything like that and that that would be specifically for renovation or a remodel you would would everybody be comfortable with that in terms of yeah I I mean I don't know about speaking everybody else but I think that that's that's a good thing because it's still going to look historic and it's been there and we allow people on the regular parts of pasc to do it so why wouldn't we you know I mean that's the spirit of the thing uh but that would also discourage other properties that could potentially have that have along the have some space in the back from building a whole new structure because that could be a problem and I don't think that fits into the spirit of what we've got going on there the idea really is supposed to be that the crd is a main street for businesses and there're specific you know with the one house was moved on but other than that one house every structure is is is essentially a business structure at least on the ground floor so anybody else got anything else I would agree agreement okay thank you all all right thank you okay anything else that we had to talk about I think yeah we have two items under number seven next meeting June 7th June 6th June 6th excuse me I was thinking of uh I don't know I was thinking a D-Day I guess and then just for the record can we confirm the July meeting date since our regular meeting date would be July 4th I know we have it in our not but just so we have it in our minutes and it's on the website on the historic page I can look real quick it is scheduled for July 11th I thought we we went over that when we got the schedule we did but I just wanted it back on the back to the Forefront so everybody who's reading this knows what we're doing over the summer making our workshop dates Etc and then I want to add one more thing which um because we don't have enough homework from Lynn and everybody else um but I was doing just some research as far as you know preparation and looking at what's going on in the city and all of the changes and the waves of growth and all of that and I found something down in Maran County that I thought was really interesting not to add an addition ordinance or anything but they have um something's called a rate of growth ordinance so it might be something just to breath and look into but I started looking into it and delving into it and I thought it was really interesting and their main focus of having that rate of growth ordinance and they call it a rogo is to make sure that everybody is able to you know evacuate should there be a hurricane if there's um infrastructure issues if there anything really just to make sure that the people that are already present are protected and that the growth that's happening is sustainable and responsible cool do you mind emailing that to me I would be delighted I think it means that the originals get to get off the beach first and the new people have to wait till the end a toe Danielle I was at I was down in in the keys at a conference and the um emergency manager for the whole um Monroe County was one of our speakers and he just talked about a lot of the difficulties they have there and that being one of them but there's a lot of stubborn people like there is on this Coast that don't evacuate and then their other big problem is they have so many people because it's so expensive to live there that live on their boats and they don't leave either and then once the boats wash ashore and are on land it's no longer the boat owner's problem it's the cities or the counties yeah interesting so they have a lot going on there so Ro county is a very interesting yeah I was down there and I noticed that they're building all those almost look like like uh containers on top of each other and you can par well yeah you can like put your RV underneath it as well they're just these little 10ft wide structures and the vacant Lots from all the storms and I want to correct myself because I think I said Maran County and I meant Monroe County I figured you me I i' be looking in Mar County my apologies no worries I will take the email yeah Monroe County they have a lot of specific laws though yeah just because of the how they're situated it's a very very technical counties cities all sorts of things state gets involved a l I think this whole state is the rate of growth is huge they were talking the people in the airport CU airport they're adding on too cuz so many are coming in and going out more Airlines they just got back I know on their cruises cuz their cruises got out of control so that was a big vote down there but yeah anyway just more we all have our problems good stuff okay more to read it's still 10 to 11 that's right actually it wasn't too bad 2 hours and 20 minutes pretty good okay adjourn