e e e e e e to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and jusice for all Madam clerk roll call member Hurley pres member young pres Vice chair Hawkins Smith present member Dasha present chair Lowry here we have a quorum okay well let's see uh this is the meeting for August 1st 2024 uh the first thing on the meeting is the approval of the agenda has everyone had an opportunity to look at it and does anybody have anything they want to add okay the only thing I would like to do is as a discussion item we can do this at the end just real simple stuff uh one is I'd like to see if we could talk about setting a date for the workshop uh it's my understanding at least last month or not last month in uh June we talked about there would be a meeting maybe with Miss saloner before the workshop so I want to know kind of about that and how we might set that up or put that and uh get the wheels turning on that one uh the other thing I'd like to bring up is we also talked at the last meeting about uh the commercial Zone in passag R that's not in the overlay and talking about putting into o into the overlay with amended standards and uh I think was kind of left up with what we kind of thought how we'd follow up with that and although I don't think that's necessarily a priority you know before we meet with the commission on some of this other stuff I would like to perhaps talk about that next month meeting or at least set something in the next couple months so we just don't you know lose that um and the other thing I would like to and I don't know if we if we'll get an answer today but I'd like to put it on next month's agenda if possible just to get an update on the garbage pickup situation in the storic district so we can talk about that stuff later or just put it on the next month's uh agenda okay that with that then I will make a motion to approve the August 1st 2024 agenda second that motion roll call please member young yes Vice chair hkin Smith approved member dashel yes member Hurley yes chair Lowry yes motion carries thank you okay at this part of the meeting we do audience comments uh which allows anybody to come up and say whatever they want in 3 minutes uh if you're here though to make comments about something that's on the agenda for later you can wait and talk about it then when it's more relevant so this is kind of the area time frame for just kind of General comments does anybody in the audience have any general comments they'd like to make okay seeing nothing we'll go on from that uh next we have approval of the minutes have the committee members had an opportunity to read the minutes and does anybody have a motion I have a motion I'd like to move that we approve the minutes from June 6 2024 I'll second roll call please Vice chair Hawkin Smith approved member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes chair Lowry yes motion carries okay next is uh on the regular meeting is item four first action item 4A deals with the unnecessary and undue hardship variance number 2440 uh reference to 3112 passer girl way yes good afternoon chair and board members chrisen Coman community development director if I could have the PowerPoint please so today we're looking for a recommendation um with regards to an unnecessary and undue hardship variance uh application we have uh case number 24 244 applicant owner Vivian Harold for Brandon teenburg Loc located at 3112 pass way uh staff is Seeking a recommendation of approval approval with conditions or denial from the historic preservation board to the board of adjustment regarding the reinstallation of a 34 in X 52in sign on the front of 3112 pass gr way which is not zoned for such a sign type in summary the subject property is located within the RM residential district within the passl overlay District the property is also on the local historic registry as a historic resource and the RM residential district impo or zoning imposes significant limitations on most commercial sign types and the applicant is seeking to reinstall the projecting sign at the same size same location but with a different sign face so with the the LDC section 2814 the review of requests for variances so the some photos were provided from the applicant as part of the um application subm of the previous sign that was located um they are doing in the same style as was previously there as you can see from 2008 2011 however you'll see that this sign that was previously there was projecting out over the sidewalk they have um proposed to kind of nestle it under the Eve um so it wouldn't be so far out there I guess you could say um this is the schematic that was provided seeing what kind of a copy would be on there um as well as um the proposed location you can see it's uh nestled staff has no concerns about the reinstallation of the sign with the new sign face the sign is not excessively sized or out of character with the sign in place at time of the structures placement on the local registry staff is recommending to the board of adjustment that the sign not now or in the future be permitted internal illumination and that all other existing signs that were placed without permits A-frames the LED sign things that are there be removed as a condition of approval so this application did go before the technical review uh committee those um recommendations were in place and the applicant did agree so with that we have our motion is there any questions that you'd have for me I just for clarification I guess did they change the sign uh I mean how did they have the sign in the past but not now that just they put it up at a time when they didn't really have the requirements or so as far back as part of the application simal and perhaps the applicant can talk about this that at the time when the um the building was place as a historic nature but the sign was not included that it was just the building so when and you can probably attest when driving by that sign has been down for quite some time years maybe and I think it was cured um and after a period of time if it's not put back up if it's taken down temporarily it can only be replaced or reinstalled in accordance with the Land Development code which we don't permit that kind of sign right but I guess what I'm doing the sign was initially put up the Land Development code probably didn't exist or at least didn't deal with that more than likely not correct well that property is part of two non-conforming properties in all of passag um that were able to operate in commercial and had signs Etc which brings me to a question do I need to recru my use myself from this discussion because I owner and operator of the other commercial property that is non-conforming well thank you for that question um will you inura benefit privately or will a family member inur benefit based on your vote today I I I don't know I mean I own the existing business and the exist existing signage at 26th Avenue in P GR way and I unfortunately are impartial to keeping our non-conforming businesses the two that exist keeping them here and keeping them in business so I don't know if that puts me in awkward position can you make a decision based on what's presented to you today I believe so yeah then I don't unless you're part of the ownership of this building or you're going to in your some kind of special benefit then I I think you are required to vote okay thank thank you for asking I have a question as far as the signage looks like the top tier of it says Tech travel and then underneath of it is Eva Emporium so what is this advertising Eva Emporium or Tech travel or there currently exist two businesses on site and we do have btrs or business tax receipts for both and are they doing the golf cart rentals also out of that location because I've seen golf carts kind of coming and going from there as well the passor girl golf cart that would not be part of the approved use I have another question having to do with the non-conforming use of the buildings um I believe that his in the past at that location there had been a question because the business that was there originally being the Nancy marcu gallery and the gallery that was there prior to that they were accepted um when the property changed hands and The Business involved in that property not just Tech travel and everm porum but however a group that owned it prior to that were told by the city that if they were not maintaining the business in a format that match the non-conforming use that it could be an issue can anybody give me any background or or history on that so I can't give you specific background on on the business itself but legally you are there are possibilities in which you can vacate a grandfathered use right so so there are Provisions in our code that say for example if you vacate it or you abandon it or you stop using it for a certain period of time then you lose it and we deal with it a lot with some of these transient lodging and short-term rental grandfathering requests that's why I was asking because the Nancy Maru Gallery had closed for a significant period of time and I don't know that the length of time that it was closed and not reopened as a Gallery um I don't know if that impacts and I'm trying to find background on that if anybody has any background on it um under the impression that if you abandon the property you obviously you can lose your non-conforming status uh or you abandon that use you can lose that non-conforming status but are we only allowed are they only allowed to operate if they have a gallery still and then they can operate another business out of that they have space for it or does anybody so so there's two things here right so there's non-conforming uses such as and non-conforming signs and building structures and things of that nature right but then with the use and Kristen may be able to speak on this is as long as the use that they're currently using it for is a permitted use in our code then that's fine like your concept would come around as if someone wanted to continue using it as a gallery and for some reason we changed our Land Development code to not allowed galleries in that area anymore that's how the grandfathered use would be continued that's that's not really what I was getting at what I was getting at is that because there was a grandfather situation with the non-conforming use or non-conforming business or commercial use of that property does the the business or the type of business need to maintain to keep it in that status or can that stat can that business be changed so that the non-conforming non-conforming commercial use of that structure can be used as a different business or a different style of business so I can say with with this and looking through our history that we have and it was before I came uh aboard to the city so if there is a change of use and there is a change of business they have to obtain a BTR business tax re seat so at that time staff would look to see whether or not the use is consistent if it is a permitted use otherwise we wouldn't be able to issue the VTR or sign off from a zoning standpoint saying yes that that use is permited so it's my understanding looking backwards that the BTR was issued for both of these businesses so they were found to be consistent as far as commercial whether it was office like she had office but it may not necessarily be that it had to maintain like an artist Gallery could it be used for some like retail you know whatever that kind of fell under if that makes that's what I'm asking businesses change for instance if if they no longer want to run a gallery there they run the real estate or Tech travel business that's there and operate any other kind of business in on the same yeah we generally look at the square footage what is there if we have floor plans we try to take as much information as we can or knowledge that we have um as well as Land Development code to determine whether or not that use is permitted one in that zone is it consistent with the previous use if it's a non-conforming use so that can be maintained but not enlarged or expanded so we take into those uh we take into account those issues thank you M Hurley so I did go back and look to see how long ago Nancy Marco Gallery closed and I believe it was 2018 if I'm not mistaken that was the last that I could find um any information on the gallery so sounds about right I have concerns over um If This Were to be permitted and let's say 6 months down the road there's a choice of changing it to something else golf cart rentals or whatever else would that signage then be what would happen with it I think our role is to determine whether or not we would allow that size sign to be hung where they're proposed right to hang it and not get too much involved in the workings or the future of it but I think from 2018 if that's when it closed there was either a continuous use and operation or in different stages of renovation Reformation there's always something going on there whether or not the business was open and operating they were working toward getting it open and operating I have a question when we say sorry H go ahead go ahead okay when we say nonconforming are we saying because it's residential it's it's it's it's zoned RM but we're allowing a commercial establishment so there could be depending on our Land Development code there could be certain commercial uses that are permitted in any ezone and and within the Land Development code it would list those what are permitted or conditional uses um if it's strictly residential like an R1 it's single family residential only but in those certain zones if it is permitted it would list that if it is non-conforming where the commercial business isn't permitted it can be kind of grandfathered in it can remain to to be standing just can't be enlarged or expand it without further appro that's my question in this particular case what does non-conforming mean well in this case that we're looking at today is the sign itself so the sign structure okay I'm not talking about uses that that's a whole separate thing what you were answering Mr corre early in reference to that's so in this case that I have before you today it is actually the sign itself so there are certain signs that we do permit within the RM Zone this type of sign a hanging or projecting sign is not considered a permitted sign right but but you've said that uh the engineers whatever have looked at it and they're I I know that a lot of times these signs aren't aren't allowed because in a hurricane they'll blow off and go through somebody's window or something so I know there's different ways of engineer them and things of that nature and I assume that was the reason why we don't allow those anymore particularly but uh so in this case the safety aspects they pretty much St rubber stamped that or said that's okay the the way the signs sign is designed the city's okay with that as far as the technical Review Committee right we do have uh representatives from building um there was no comments at that time whenever should it get approved and there's support found by you and from the board of adjustment right the building department would review that and if they had questions comments or concerns they would bring that up because Tech all we're doing is making a recommendation to the board of adjustments who really make the decision at that point okay that's correct um so let me just say this you know I am a fan of the historic district remaining as historic or potentially different than other areas of St Pete Beach as it possibly can I think I remember the Nancy Marco sign I like the sign I mean I I think that's a a nice way to let people in the neighborhood know that there's something a little bit different there I think that adds adds a uniqueness and and then not to comment other people's property I like to see other people's property that have science out there as well and I know we've uh actually designated some science historically or the Bon a neon sign I know we did and so uh you as we go as we go forward to talk about this you know I think that although we got a lot of signage on pasor too many street signs or informational signs I suppose I think a sign involving a business like this that kind of lends it self to a more historic look like that sign someone does since we technically can't make those anymore so that's just my comments but okay would you mind throwing back that slide that has the staff recommendations and my question is if for whatever reason we did not give a recommendation for this sign what would be the alternative to that so yours is a strictly recommendation so when I do take this before the Board of adjustment I do touch upon any comments any um you know recommendations you have and share that with the board um because it's within the pass girl overlay uh we have been before you in the past where it was like you did recommend approval with these certain conditions um one thing we did say here is that there be no illumination uh permitted whether internal external that it just doesn't it's kind of out of character um should you Rec recommend it with conditions or some changes you can um it just it would transfer over to the board of adjustment in my staff findings report and they do take that into consideration I want to say so well if if you left the historic board out of this and it just went to the board of adjustments and they said no we we're not going to approve this what is the appropriate code today for this sign that would be put up would would be allowed um would it be something on a a pole they could have a certain Monument sign I will say being on a corner piece of property where they are located it's kind of hard when you have site visibility issues um they could have a wall sign um and that was kind of explored uh by staff but as you know there's a lot of window square footage so it would have to be kind of low to the ground um so there are signs that are permitted I can tell you that as far as size-wise goes it is within the dimensions or the square footage that we do permit um they would have to come up some with some alternative uh but this is what the applicant is bringing forward um they could do a sign that's in conformance with the ordinance or apply for a different type of sign as well okay I appreciate that they tucked it under the eve rather than projecting out over the sidewalk I think that was a great consideration if I'm not mistaken one of these pictures shows that their um the rod that it's attached to can be easily removed in the event of a storm or wind so that sign can be taken down in case the winds do kick up that's not the the picture that's being shown is not the that's the one that they're talking about that's up underneath the Eve right yeah I'm looking at one in our packet it says page 16 I think in our packet 16 of 191 is that the old Nancy Maru sign no it's notm okay it shows the tech travel sign under the eve right on a rod with brackets there remember how and the next page you can see the little brackets too and the little hole that's at the front where the rod slides in and out so I guess that would be in case we had a storm coming they could take the sign down right that's great which is one of the reasons why they get out there this afternoon okay well uh I will make a motion unless any more discussion from anybody that wants to ask more question questions well would you mind putting the staff recommendation slide back up please absolutely thank you you're welcome the recommendation um not that one the one before yes this one yes yeah okay what I would like to say yeah I think I know we're going here yeah I would make a recommendation uh that the reinstallation or the sign be approved as it is pictured and displayed and I would also be agreeing with the recommendation of the board of judgments that they're not be any uh internal illumination um and that other existing signs that were placed there without permit being removed so my motion would be that as they've shown us with the removable pole and the size of the and shape of the sign under the eaves that we would recommend to the board of adjustments that that be approved I second the motion roll call please member Dash Hall yes member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes member Lowry yes motion carries thank you I'll include that in with my staff findings report and presentation to the board thank you Kristen thank you that's Kristen okay next I believe we have uh the certificate of appr appropriateness on the demolition case number 2445 involving the property at 2311 passeng girl away thank you Lyn Rosetti uh contract planner for the city of St Pete Beach this application is for a certificate of appropriateness for the demolition of 2311 passag gril way which is a single family residential property case number 2445 um this particular property was built in 1936 and it is listed as a contributing property to the National register District in addition to that it was locally designated on November 2nd 1995 and was given a plaque at that same time what they're requesting to do is to build a new single family residents to the house large standards of the passag gril overlay District these are listing of exhibits this is a map that shows the location of the property on passeng drive and 24th Avenue and it's Waterfront there's an aial of the property so this is how the house looks currently give you another perspective looking to the South W Southeast you can see the decorative iron work on the gate and also on the B valy State and the front porch this is the house that's to the north and this is what is directly to the South we have some additional photographs from the applicant I've had conversations with the applicant regarding the property and its condition the property apparently show the property shows Decay on the outside especially with all the woodwork so these slides are trying to uh show the specific rot and deterioration can see it along the roof line here especially and also up the balcony some more outside wood Decay rotten Decay apparently is affecting most of the wooden doors so we' been showing this also apparently the piping I mean the plumbing and and all of the house is not in usable condition and this has waters coming through the roof when it's raining so for demolition permits um contributing structures to the National register historic district shall not be issued a demolition permit until COA has been issued for such demolition we the board can ask for up to 30 days for either contributing structure or designated structures that have not taken advantage of any preservation incentives and reviewing the certificate of appropriate nurse request and issuance of the demo permit historic preservation Board needs to consider the following criteria one that the the historic or the architectural significance of the building the importance of the building to the character of The District the difficulty or impossibility of reproducing such a building one of the last remaining examples of its kind in the neighborhood or city whether reasonable measures can be taken to save the building and whether the building is capable of earning reasonable economic return and considering its physical condition and its location and the anticipated expense of Rehabilitation that that would be economically feasible and I actually going to go back on those points in a minute um staff is recommending approval of the requested certificate of appropriateness for demolition case number 23045 for a deterior for a deteriorating local Landmark that is also a contributing residential structure to the passag grill National register historic district this property is located at 2311 passway staff is recommending that any demolition approval be conditioned upon the historic preservation board's approval of a related residential design review there is a residential design review on the agenda today for your consideration the historic preservation board May pose up to a 90day stay to access to discuss preservation incentives and demolition Alternatives with the AL with the applicant actually that should say 30 days thank you the recommended motion is to approve the requested certificate of appropriateness for the demolition case number 2445 of a residential structure at 2311 passor grow away um I had several conversations with the applicant who I think is here today yes he is here today um Jen Johnson Johnson and I'm just going to convey what we talked about a little bit and I'd like to for him to speak further with you about this I asked him because I I feel that this building is very unique building on passag grill and it seems to be architecturally pretty significant we don't have anything else on P gr that looks like this building but I asked him about how How Sound the structure was and he explained to me that they he has put in considerable amount of money trying to patch it up fix it up control the deterioration and rot and seems to be pervasive throughout the house gets a water in it when it rains he's concerned about flooding he told me that water has come up to two inches with within the front of the house getting into the house he also described how he had contacted a contractor who could possibly Elevate the building and because of the way it's constructed in it with its asymmetry that it would have to be broken up into three pieces to be elevated and it would never get back its original look even elevated so I'm not going that's just what he had told me since he's here I want him to come and answer any questions you have about that and speak to these issues that he's had trying to preserve his house and he's come to the conclusion that he really can't do that thank you thank you Lynn okay I guess that would be to Mr Johansson or his agent to come speak to us briefly I guess please take your name for the record Joy Douglas okay go ahead and tell us anything I have some questions but yes I understand right uh Mr Johansson and his wife have tried to live there they have tried to fix things up I have been in the property I am a licensed architect and I've examined the property and the house not only is it over the setback lines that are now established it is extremely close to the seaw wall um I believe it's within 10 ft um it's very dangerous for floods for their safety or anybody that would be living in that home there is no insulation in the house so it's breaking every um energy code that we have right now and to fix these problems raise the house as he explored um there is so much structural damage between termites and water that I believe on their on her slide number six is it coste effective to try to save this home and in my personal opinion and my professional opinion the answer is no um while we do appreciate this architecture and do recognize how significance is it is just too far someone previous to Mr Johansson has let this go just too far and there is no salvaging it okay anybody have any questions I don't know I don't think so all right thank you uh well actually stand there for a minute because maybe something will pop up but um no what but first of I'd like to thank the owners because I am a neighbor I have seen what they've tried to do with the house I know it was vacant for probably five or six years and and nobody was taking care of it at all and it was an old it was an old house anyway and uh and as you know with a house that sits vacant with no AC for that many years what can grow inside yeah and so I applaud them for how they have fixed it up as much as they have to try to bring it back to some semblance of uh you know being a to be to live in it um and I think we all know just to say this that we can't deny a demolition perent even if we wanted to I mean that's the way the cookie crumbles and it it is a great house it's got a lot of history and stuff but I I think not only is the code pragat pragmatic but I believe we have to be too um any event um anybody have any anything that to comment or discuss before we do anything else I agree with the chairman it's one of the most unique pieces of architecture in the area but I don't know a way to save it based on what's been brought forward what I've what I've witnessed myself over the years so I maybe we could add a condition that you have to put a photograph of the old house in your in your in your living room but uh okay anyone else anything say does the owner want to speak I I don't do you want to speak Mr Johansson I I think everyone's question would there be any effort made to salvage any of the architectural pieces maybe the gate or shutters or any any of the decorative architectural items from the house the new um home does not include any of the old features we have offered to the museum and offer they could have interest in specifically a bathroom is very nice but also so updated that it can't be used unfortunately but but yes thank you for reaching out to the museum and I have a question for the city and we've talked about this before about a photographic memory of the property when we issue demolition permits does does anybody go out and take pictures of the way it was before it gets torn down so we have a and that goes into the files so we always have a photographic record of I think getting the COA like Lynn presented has pictures that are in a file and I don't know Lynn if you can expand on that but we do have photos of each yeah and don't we have those old Master files whatever that that like that show the house when it was first built designated too yeah I mean I know when it's designated mhm well no I'm even the ones like those old yellow files that show since I these old photographs they took the old cards that would design show the design and the dimensions and ET property cards I think they used to call them property cards this house was originally one of the it was one of the original houses that was surveyed back in 1985 so we have that older Florida Master site file form as well as an updated Florida Master site file form from 2015 we don't have photographs of the Interior but um I do have some photographs now of the interior and the damage in the interior but uh you know it's a full photo essay has not been done on the house at this point before we make a motion I have a couple couple of um administrative changes or questions so in the staff finding paragraph referencing the case number it references case number 23045 and that should be 24045 and then regarding that case number should the demolition COA case number precede the new design case number because in this way it's it's reversed this demolition case is 2445 and the design review case is 2444 does it make a difference what order those things come in them in the order that they are received so the M gets assigned when the application comes in I get entered into this you know compter system so the design review case came in first and then they were told they had to come in for demolition review Brandon's noing yes I can hear his head rattling can we make a motion that we table a vote on the demolition permit until after we reviewed the bill you're asking me I swap the orders I don't think I don't think we can no I believe that we don't have any ability to change the demolition order right request although the the agenda's been set there's nothing wrong with shifting gears to the design review and then coming back to the previous item well don't and I we're all going to hear it all all now anyway but the only reason I was saying I wonder if there's an issue with it is even if the design review for some reason failed they could still knock the house down and have a vacant lot right so yeah but you could you know what I'm saying so no you could but with this day you could I mean I know it's not as much Authority as you want but if if you want a different design then essentially you may motion to stay the demolition for 30 days until you get an updated design right right um so just food for DOT you can't prevent it but you can definitely pause it well I but I think the intent is really to try to salvage what's there right that's the of this day if it was to happen right so so on this motion for the demolition even though we we can't deny it we could always at least add the 30-day stay in it which as a practical matter happens almost anyway so or we could or we could table it and do the design review I I I don't I don't care I mean I think we're all I if you say we're okay to talk about the design re review before I make a motion I'd be happy to let that happen as chairperson if the board feels like that would help them decide on whether to issue the certificate right now or stay it then I think that's absolutely in your privy to do I I don't see the point in prolonging this we don't have we don't have a choice in the demolition at the long at the long and short of at the end of the today we don't have a choice in the demolition the design review will continue to have a choice in it as it comes before us right yeah I I I I think I think as a matter of protocol that would you know I think that the because the statute clearly says that we can't deny a demolition permit and nor what I say in this particular case you know because of the issues that exist you know I believe it's it's appropriate under the circumstance we can't make people live in a house that's Fallen apart uh but we could you know so let me dis this I I will make a motion to Grant the certificate of appropriateness in the demolition case number 2445 uh with the condition that there be a 30-day stay anybody want to second that motion I'll second that Madam clerk please roll call member Hurley approve member young approved Vice chair hackin Smith approved member dashel approved chair Lowry yes motion carries okay so now we go to the next issue which is all part and parcel of this Brandon can you tell us about this is on the design design review for the home that they plan on building there at that location after the demolition yes uh Brandon Barry senior planner so this is the accompanying design review for the certificate of appropriateness that you just heard it is case number 2444 the applicant is requesting a design review of a new residence that is constructed to the house large standard of the pastor Grill overlay District this board tends to see house medium there isn't much of a significant difference between the two they tend to relate more to the um location of access structures on the lot which this uh property does not propose any at this time uh the other difference is that the side setback is 7 ft which is the more standard uh Suburban setback that we have in our city instead of 5 feet which is the house medium uh this is a site plan for the request the lot and some of its neighbors are a little bit unique not only in pasil but throughout the rest of the city um in terms of residences and that a significant portion of the lot is actually submerged land the property has a depth of about 105 ft on average but the rear 20 to 25 ft is submerged land per the zoning code and the supplies and passer Grill as well as the rest of the city the setback is always taken from the midpoint of the seaw wall not from the property line if the property line extends Beyond the seaw Wall so despite having a depth of over 100 ft uh the property only has a depth of about 80 ft um once that submerged land is taken into account but this is the proposal the property generally meets the zoning code in terms of just the typical setbacks and and lot coverage and green space requirements I do have a few comments toward the end of the um end of the presentation about that but I did want to note on the North side there is an ornamental wall that projects off the north side you'll be able to see that better from the renderings that does appear to be a little bit too far into the setback so that will need to be scaled back in but it otherwise does meet the house medium zoning code for setbacks here's a front elevation this is the original this is the one that went out with your packets um I did want to point out that we did speak with the architect last week um this was reviewed by our design consultant Tera salmieri uh she had made one recommendation pertaining to the garage doors and the architect did provide a revised rendering just to point out the changes the balconies um there had been that what is I believe aluminum wood look uh trellis that it projected out out over the top balcony the third floor balcony um that now is around all three sides it extends out to the glass barrier uh there is a vertical um wood look feature on the center entry Atrium type feature and then there have been some changes to the garage doors previously they had been that wood look now they are um white to meet the uh shell um shell look of the ground floor here's the re rear elevation this is unchanged from your packet um there have not not been any modifications so looking to the north uh this is a new design I believe this actually came to the historic preservation board back in 2020 uh this is the immediate Northern neighbor uh this structure is at its highest point a little bit shorter than the subject structure the Elevator Shaft of the proposed structure 2311 pass gril way is 3 ft tall taller than the subject structure however the third and Second Story roof lines are below the structure um to its North it will be overall shorter with the exception of that Elevator Shaft enclosure um than the neighbor to the north of course to the South is the St Pete Yacht Club the immediate neighbor to 2311 pass away up until 2018 was a more modest uh two-story structure that was demolished it's now a parking lot for the St Pat club and looking at the near by residences across the way there's no direct neighbor the direct neighbor is 20 uh 23rd Avenue but um these are structures in the vicinity to the west of the subject structure um in summary uh the design is notably modern um staff cannot locate a residence of similar style in the vicinity I'm certainly not a design expert the architect can speak more to this it appears to be a about house more um modern inspired structure um however the residents was found by the city's consultant to generally meet the design standards they are very broad design standards at least as they are currently in the code um we are looking in the future to more of a style guide more of a um you know matching the style of the neighborhood um intent with with the Land Development code but as it stands currently uh our consultant did find it to generally meet the design standards the one exception was those garage doors that I pointed out before our consultant was okay with the texture of the garage doors but they did want them to be the same color the same type of the gray um as as the structures vicinity in terms of landscaping uh the Land Development code also prefers understory trees along the front edge to troa Holly myrtles rather than palms and just going back to that there were two Palms proposed for the sides of the structure and one one understory tree in the center we do tend to prefer um understory trees in the passal overlay so staff recommends approval with three conditions um again going back to the garage doors the applicant shall exchange the garage doors for ones with color and texture that match other nearby elements of the front facade that have been recommendation of our design consultant the applicant shall explore Florida friendly understory tree as an alternative to the fox tail palms that are proposed on the north and south side of the structure utilizing the Palms only in cases where Alternatives would pose issues with visibility or proposed construction and there's always any significant alterations to the building including exchange of materials window location or expansion of expansion of the structure under the current scope would require the request to return to the historic preservation board and that would be a motion to recommend the design review case 24044 with staff conditions as you saw the um the architect is present um I'm sure they have a much better design backing than I do but we we had run this by our consultant and they did make a recommendation for approval with that one one exception did you have any questions for me or would you like to hear from the applicant um I have a couple questions for you at least um this this is do you say it's a house medium or house large it's a house large okay okay um and and I believe you said earlier that some of the setbacks they use are actually not as restrictive as they could be is that right and they could go to 5 feet but they're at s feet so the house the house medium that tends to be the standard lot house medium again though that that's the standard lot size and pass grill that tends to be most of the reviews you see the reason I brought that up is because this is it's a different setback standard than we typically present to the board this might be the first one you've seen so so this is a this is a house large on what normally would be a house medium size lot is that what you said not the the lot meets the house large standards um it's it's more restrictive and and really the Restriction is the the setback is two feet greater on each side than it would be on a house medium the house medium has a 5 foot side setback this is a seven oh I gotcha okay um and it's being built under the Overlake could could this exact same thing be built under the underlying Zone uh the the front setback would either need a variance or they would need to move the structure back to 20 fet uh the rear setback does meet the side setback meets for the underlying however the front setback does not they would actually pick up another foot on the side if they were to use the underlying zoning and how how many feet would they lose in the front if they did underline uh they would have a they would have a 20ft set back they are currently proposing at its closest point I believe it's it's around 10 let me get a it is 10 feet on the Southside and 13 feet 34 on the North okay and so and along that same I remember we had a the house in here which is I think now in a construction up there like on about 28th and then they I forget the reason why but they were like required to build under the overlay what was the reason for that just for Clum anagon to that if the lot is under sized it needs to build to the overlay if it's if it this lot does just meet the standard for an underlying zone so they could choose to build to the underlying okay and just again out of curiosity that the submerged land M can they do anything with that I mean does it change the dock conditions or anything like that it it may affect the dock conditions I'm not sure offand we we don't have any standards locally related to that that's more with the the state and the county um however in terms of construction of the Upland lot it's only a greater restriction any submerged land doesn't count towards setbacks or right lck coverage or anything like that it's always thinking of whether they would be able to have a larger dock because they own the property under the water but you don't have we don't have an answer not under our zoning code the setbacks would be the exact same and what is what is the set what is the rear setback now if you know compared to the what the rear set setback is of the existing structure I believe the architect said the rear setback is 10 ft so they're they're an additional 10 feet from the seaw wall compared to where they are today that's what I wonder okay and what's the front setback on the adjacent property it's it's roughly it's it's between 10 and 15 feet I don't know the exact number but it's it's somewhere in that range they they did build using the overlay so I can I can look that up I could that okay and I have a question I just wanted to be clear because I'm not right now the proposed garage doors were they the white ones or the brown ones I believe our consultant had asked for for gray uh to to match the rest of the structure and they came back with let me get to the um it appears to be I believe that's those are shadows but the the architect could so I'm I'm still not I know the staff is recommending that the garage doors be swapped out for something that matches the colors and textures of the other elements of the house so I'm is this what the staff recommends or is this what the applicant has originally submitted and the wooden doors wouldn't look doors because there's other elements of this in the house is that what the staff is recommending this is the revision that we received earlier this week um I I did speak with our design consultant she had asked that the garage doors instead of this be made a a gray to match the sand stucco on on adjacent sides of the garage however it's we we had not recommended the wood look that was the initial submitt this is the revision we received this week and she had asked for a further revision to this to just just on color thank you I would have some questions of the architect please but again state your name for the record please Joy Douglas hey all right here's here's what I from questions about and just for those folks that that don't know how we operate you know we on the board here don't ever talk about anything other than us sitting in here right now so you know when when this information came out it's not like anyone got together and talked I being fairly perspect perceptive I think I have a feeling for some of the questions you might be getting and so I want to ask little about those now um when you designed this and and first off I I hope I I'd like to say I'm trying to be as tactful as possible because I I think it's a pretty design but it's a very modern house in a historic district and of course there's going to be a rub whenever that happens okay uh and we've gone basically from a unique old house to a unique modern house and and and I feel you know these are my neighbors I'm only a couple house houses away and and I like I don't know them that well but what I I do like them so I'm kind of in in a torn position here but when you make a decision to build this under the overlay do you read what the overlay says as far as purpose and intent where it talks about fitting into the historic nature and being a compatible structure because I would say this clearly is not compatible and doesn't really fit into into the historic neighborhood now we're somewhat limited obviously we don't have a lot of teeth on what we do we get to do a design review where we can make suggestions I mean obviously you've already done a lot of work on this already and so you know for for example I had to say this not just because as a committee I think we would like to know the thinking out there sometimes because more and more recently we've been getting more modern and modern uh houses which you know in my opinion that's a fine house it's a beautiful house uh as it's designed but it's in a historic district and you know you know north of the Dawn that would look great or wouldn't it you know what so we have to kind of be in a position where we have a bit of a duty to ask questions about this stuff and so when it talks about the overlay it says the purpose and intent and I won't go into all the detail because it mainly has to do with getting past FEMA and some of the setbacks that in this particular case obviously you've taken advantage of get gaining a 10- foot uh relief from the setback in the front and so as far as you utilizing the skills to get using the overlay so you can get the best house out of the Circ in the circumstances you've been given the ability to get 10 extra feet in the front yet the spirit I would say of the overlay is violated because it's not historic or or it's not it's not compatible and though and so it makes me I guess I'm questioning what thought process goes into uh you know designing this home when you're taking advantage of a historical overlay I'm not trying to put you down the spot and maybe what your you know your clients want to do this stuff I understand that I'm just trying to get a feel for because you can see we're going to have we have some dissonance about this and sure sure um the reason for using the overlay you're absolutely correct was for the 10 ft in the front while we maintained the 7ot setback sides of the house large in the 20 foot of the rear um because so much of the property was in the water um this is not a large property and we even discussed does this even fall into house large because because of the size and how much is actually buildable um and we felt that to get a house of any significant size this is not a large house it's not one of these 5,000 squ foot houses out here um that taking advantage of the overlay for the 10 ft would benefit the size of the home um otherwise having a 20ft setback in the back would reduce the house to being only maybe 20 ft deep on some set and that's just for a a waterfront uh property having a house that's only 20 feet deep is probably not so desirable for retail uh excuse me for resale and um building of the community um as far as the historic part of it you I don't know who I don't want to say you but there are examples um in the area of more modern houses um that are built I don't know if when those were approved but we have quite a few examples here I believe five with addresses of where these houses exist um to make a nod to the historic we felt that the Shell Con um stucco on the ground level which I'll answer the question about the white um the computer rendering because I did this quickly I wanted to show that there are two two different color Grays the lower level is shell concrete uh shell stucco which a lot of these houses are using on the bottom um level on the ground level um so the computer rendered that in the sunlight more white than we had expected but I wanted to get it back out to you showing that we did want to change the garage doors to try to match that as best as possible so that is a more smooth not a wood texture as the staff um suggested that we changed those so we were trying to change that as quickly as possible to show that it was different from the other um smooth plaster on the outside but there are there would be two different Shades of Gray that Shell versus um but but matching or com ma yes ma'am matching as best as possible um so with the wood features with the trellis um with the shell we were trying to use the materials to talk to the historic part not necessarily the design of of the home well let me so let me I just need to say so you mentioned five examples of new homes and I can probably pick them out of my head but I don't know if they're all built under the overlay or built under the underlying Zone okay and there's a distinction and and I guess my question maybe there's no answer maybe I just have to you know is why choose a modern style period I mean I understand why you did it because of setbacks I understand the size of the lots that that all makes perfect sense why you would do the overlay okay y but then the overlay also asks you know that it be com compatible with the the neighborhood and I think there's actually there's one line that says the overall mass and scale of the passor Gilla community's existing housing stock and even though there are five houses that might be considered modern there's probably 150 that aren't and I you know we're very aware of of homes I could show you probably many more than five that are new builds that don't do a bow house or and and again I'm not an enemy of modern design okay and I think that's I think this is a a really neat looking house you know so I'm not it's not that uh I'm just saying you know when the option is out there you know and you're in you're in a historic district why do you want to build a modern house this is what the client asked for me to do okay he came from Denmark where modern architecture is more prevalent I actually know he lives in a 500y old house but uh I get that and that's okay and I I was following his instructions and actually some of his drawings that he brought from architex and tried to adapt those as much as possible to fit this as best as I could okay and and also to that note if I'm not mistaken I believe Brandon said there's nothing else like this within the city if I'm not mistaken no but I would say that house on 14th or 15th is pretty close that was recently built I would agree there's sever but not identical to this no I know and I mean so and and frankly not least yeah I mean frankly I think one of the neat things about Pastor gr over the years is there are a lot of different type Styles and some are more modern than others but but this is you know really not you know that compatible with with the area around there I mean I know the house next to it is a little more modern there's a parking lot next to it these kind of things and you know I just wanted like I said because uh we get more and more of this and yeah if every if every house gets knocked down and gets modern we won't have a historic district anymore and the whole uniqueness and charm and reason why real estate prices are as high as they are is because I believe that exists and so as we go forward and just for what it's worth you know we're going to be meeting with the commission not you know some at some point to talk about doing some more design guidelines that uh might narrow some of these things down but I'm just trying to get a feel for the thought process I appreciate your anwers I personally no front to you I I question the reason for our time up here when I see designs like this come before the board I'm like what am I doing here what's the what is the reason why our historic board is here if we continue to see these designs come before us again and again and again and there's really truly nothing we can do about it we can give our recommendation but it's like a hole in the bottom of our bucket doesn't hold any weight whatsoever um and I just kind of have to bite my lip and say that's pretty nothing I can do about it and then I see my friends on the street who say how could you let that happen to our historic neighborhood like I can't do anything about it trust me it's hours and hours and hours out of my life too that are spent up here wasted when these things keep coming before us and there's nothing we can do like we I think we need to really have a conversation about what's the point of being here If this just keeps happening it's a beautiful home I'm not going to it is it's lovely I appreciate the design I don't think it belongs in Pastor girl personally I like the brown doors better but that's just my opinion I also like the brown doors better I'm sure well see well then that's part of the thing too the brown doors are like the you know little teeny tiny bit of what the problem is that we're facing here as a board and as a community so I mean if we're going to let this stuff happen put the brown doors on it who cares I agree honestly I mean I prefer the brown doors anyway and if it's going to get built why not yeah I mean I just and I agree with what Cher Lowry said as well as yourself um part of the charm of our community is that it's Unique and it's got character and while this is a beautiful design it certainly doesn't fit the overall feel of our community it doesn't seem right just my personal two cents and and I would just say this so you all understand a little bit too you know this has been a evolving I think position in the committee is because you know a lot of these houses that are very modern designs have all been very recent and so we're you know we're kind of concerned about how that's moving although as been said we don't really have a lot of uh of enforcement I mean I suppose you you could always say oh well this V void needs to be more this or you need more balconies here or there but it's not going to change whether it's an architect design from 1940 as opposed from 2024 so that's what we don't really have and and I'm sure ter you met with Tera I assume Miss saloner do you mean with her I don't believe so okay well she reviewed it but you may not have comments and reviewed it and uh and I think we're all fairly appreciative of the work she does and understands the position and stuff we did ask about the house that's more or less across the street that was doing an addition and asked them to try and match Mass scale or elements to try and soften it uh that was at the 20 500 block of passag gr way on the inside so it' be 252 or something like that uh they did a addition to the roof and it had very sharp had very sharp edges like this particular design does window no no no on pass way it's on pass way but it's on the not 252 West Side which would be two two doors down from the Hurley office the yellow one BL oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean that's I don't know how we got to the point that we were able to ask him to soften the edges on that well we just did I mean yeah well I remember that now you're talking about and uh didn't really change it much no it didn't and again like you said we don't really have the the ability to do that the biggest thing is every well every neighbor that they showed had a huge boxy building on it except for the roof line right and the only difference is is it while this one has a beautiful design it has a very sharp modernistic roof line well yeah I I I would say you know what it's worth that this design does break up the roof very nicely and the trellises are super great and the way you box the windows but I I think that's all you know helps uh you know as far as that's concerned so so I guess I guess what I'm saying is I don't think there's much we can do about it number one but number two as far as modern designs go it's a nice one and that could have been you know much worse if that sounds I'm in agreement with that that sounds harsh that's just kind of what we're doing here you know so our new Benchmark it could have been worse well I mean we we have other examples that probably are so you know uh I I I say that with you know some understanding so chair Lowry can I just say something for a minute sure because obviously we've been working on a lot of initiatives and design review books and things that are going to be talked about later this meeting but um I've heard you say all of you say a lot that you can't really do anything and it's not always true because you can ask I mean just because you can't enforce a require something doesn't mean that you can't ask for something and see if the property owner is willing to do it no I but on a design like this like where do you start I trust me I'm not an architect nor do I pretend to be so I don't know but if if you like the garage stores would then say it right or if you want I mean maybe we need to have start having terara or something someone here as a resource for you to ask questions on um but I don't want you to lose the ability that this is in front of you right now and you could potentially ask for certain things if if you thought it would be be make it more compatible well do you guys have a licensed architect on your board or as a consultant for these types of things just totally side not we don't have one on our board but we do have a consultant on we have a consultant who actually reviewed this and I think that was where the change for okay the garage came okay cuz we've had a lot of houses built to the overlay that weren't actually built to the overlay okay well here's here's where a lot of problem the way this whole thing operates is the way this is set up is and this may not be the case in this particular case but somebody buys property on passing Grill they may or may not know it's a historic district they may or may not hire architect that knows it's a historic district we we don't have any way of usually of getting with the people before they spend money to do a design and do things of that nature to work with the city usually I mean I'm saying I don't know about in this particular case but this is what they want to do and you know you you know frankly uh I feel bad even as much as I love the neighborhood but I would be F bad feel bad telling my neighbors hey you wasted your money on this design go go do something else especially one that like this which isn't a matter of just softening some Corners it's a whole different style of architecture you know what I mean and and I appreciate the fact that they like that style of architecture and I appreciate the fact that they I believe in reality can build it here that the our design guidelines can't stop that and and I hate to put them in a position to say hey go back the drawing board when I don't have any you know I don't have any uh bite to my bark you know what you know what I'm saying I do in this particular case I do and and with the work that we've done and all the research that we've done on this meeting I mean this board used to be a design review board by Nature right right and because it's not anymore there's statutes that don't allow the city to require Architects to sign off on single family homes now they've hired one in this situation but you know there's other laws at play that we have to abide by that we're preempted for um so if we were a design review board there's probably more that we could do but you know we converted to a historic preservation board 15 20 years ago right while while um I don't want to shoot myself in the foot at all uh I have sat on boards before and I would say it's the language in the statute that allows for other types of structures than what you guys are looking for and I would say to your concern they probably will keep coming oh until these this language is changed well we I appreciate that very honestly and and uh for months years probably we've been working towards changing a few things even though we can't do a whole lot of stuff but one of the things we want to do is attach a design guide book that with photographs that would give people at least there little more information from the beginning maybe on on some some issues or some future builds and that might give us a little more juice you know at least there there's more notice out there uh perhaps but um yeah no I appreciate what you just said I think too it's a STK contrast so if you look at the house that's there presently and take into account the history behind it and I think for all of us that are emotionally obviously married to that history part of it and the memories of seeing it you know een teen times and for me living here my entire life so you look at that and then again your design is beautiful so not to not to take anything away from it but you go from apples to oranges and it's a night and day difference and so I think that's a tough pill to swallow is when you go from one thing to a totally different entity it makes it it makes it hard and I I just wish maybe if there would be a way to make it where it kind of at least resembled or featured some of the old old element so maybe if those iron features were able to be utilized in the new build or if some just a nod like a small nod to what was there previous to what's there now I think maybe would make it not so hard for the community to wrap their arms around or for and I'm speaking just for people that I know in the community of course just again my two cents well I me say any anybody uh I think I don't know I'm just speaking for myself I think we're aware of or let me just Matthew let me ask you this if I can let's say and I'm not saying this is going to happen in this particular issue if if we voted to reject the design review what's the next step that's just our recommendation yeah that's what I mean it's just a recommendation it takes the next step anyway and and staff can or they can decide unfortunately legally I don't think it does anything yeah that's what I'm saying right makes a statement No well I understand that but you know I mean there's also a aspect of it I know it's it feels like a lot I mean I hear I feel the energy um I think it's going to be a lot easier and I know we've been saying this for a while but just generally speaking when we all are going to have an opportunity to look at something and says you know it meets these pictures or it doesn't because none of us are Architects so until that moment unfortunately I hate to say it but it is what it is yeah well I would I would suggest that that when we have our Workshop in a couple months which may going to talk about with the Commissioners that that we accumulate some of this recent information and the recent builds and so they have basic idea of you know what's happening like I remember I said the other day I said every everything's Max Plus now you know there's a a vacant lot and they already want a variance before they built the house you know kind of thing and that's the way it's going to be with the property values it's all going to be like that so you know as you said we're going to get more and more I'm sure we will although you know there are people that build brand new houses that maintain a historic look I mean it it can be done and of course that's what we're here for is to encourage that to be done but all we can do is encourage we can't demand anything so all right well with with that anybody else in your comments if go ahead sorry just to clarify because there is some staff conditions that I think are going to be imposed if you do move to approve the design review we could put the brown doors back in sure I don't see any issue with that that would be great I mean ter you know you could I mean does that brown mean real does brown mean real does that mean real wood or I don't know no it's a impact uh insulated door so it's going to be wood the closest for I mean it's going to be as FL you know yeah and the house next door has wood correct would look yeah so there you go there's another example well do one of you ladies who like doors want to make a motion I I like them too I'm just joking but uh I'm trying to find where we are here page 70 is what you're looking for uh I'm trying to find there staff recommends yes it's page 70 thank you Holly how about um I'll make a motion to approve review of design review case 24044 with two of the three requested staff conditions eliminating the condition of changing the color of the garage doors how's that okay I'll suck at that motion Madam clerk roll call please member young member young Vice chair hkin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes but uh chair Lowry uh yes motion Carri thank you thank you very much okay so so let me we're going to get a lot less grief for approving that little sign than we are for man okay so let me scroll down to what's next here let's see it's the theater right I think so that's why we're here yes the theater this is a request know for certificate of appropri appropriateness for the beach theater local Historic Landmark Glenn take it away thank you very much um let's get this slideshow going okay this is a for certificate of appropriateness for 315 Corey Avenue which is the beach theater if you'll recall last June you went ahead and locally landmarked the beach theater and um a lot of people were happy about that and so right now the project is the project changed owners the original owner sold to the to the new owners a little while ago and these folks have already started on interior Renovations but right now they are looking for a certificate of appropriateness for the exterior this is this is to be a replacement of the window wall system that was installed at the front entry in 1970 and it's now in poor condition so they are going to be rebuilding that they are asking to use all of the existing signage however okay we all know that it's on Corey Avenue 315 Corey Avenue this is the aerial photograph of it another closer look at the Aral this was the original uh drawing from uh Mr Winfield lot's 1939 design for the beach theater and so just to uh kind of show you this is what the beach theater has looked like on and off throughout the years you'll noce let me go back a second you'll notice in that picture there are only three signs here there are five signs and this is important because one of the things that they are asking for not from this board per se but it's going to have to go to the board of adjustment they they have the the signs to say Beach theater that are illuminated those are in storage right now and they want to replace those signs back up on the walls as they have been historically they also want to illuminate these signs that's going to require an amendment or I'm sorry a variance from the board of adjustment because only three signs can be illuminated on the ex on the front exterior and they want to be able to illuminate all five of them as has been historically been done like that picture right there like that picture right there exactly and you know Unum nonilluminated but you know they're still there and you can see them although go back are we've gone from uh got six S8 n six play bills the other one he had four and then he have two talking about two play bills two marquee signs and the theater sign do we know what year this photograph was taken this well that one there Brandon standing in front of it now Brandon has been in a lot of my photos but not this one that's an inside joke but that but that picture is much different it shows the ticket office in the front and Etc show office out front that doesn't exist when I was looking you know Finding photographs for this presentation and for last year's presentation most of the photog s were not dated yeah that's an old one that say that says cinemascope there and everything if we could figure out what the movie is we might be able to looking at put a year that it's a little difficult to read for love of money that's what the movie can you give us a date on that one forun very good wow can't you see that I side no now I can so moving forward Out of Africa that was um that's more recent I don't remember exactly I have seen it several times over the years with Katherine heer of course no Merl stre sorry Merl stre yeah and again the signs are there that's 1985 Out of Africa so basically love money this is a COA to complete the facade improvements to actually take it back to the way it looked here for the signs for the signage yeah for the sign but we're only here today about those doors in the middle pretty much right the doors in the middle well no it's going to include the signs Oh I thought weird yeah Illuminating five signs rather than the four no I get that but are we here also to make a recommendation on the signs yes okay I yes um I found out after I sent you the staff report that the signs were also to be included okay as an and you're not approving the signs it's going to have well you you can approve the signs but you cannot approve the illumination of five right we can only make a recommendation with your recommendation if you recommend it let me ask you a question Lyn just before we get on next can can they only because I know we did it for the bond error can they get those signs historically approved I'm sure the the vertical Burke Beach would be but yes they those other ones may not be but they have to be 50 years old I don't know if they're that old well 1970 is over 50 years is it they certainly could okay if this was 1993 was that Michael France picture going back through here we go I don't think he did that movie so you know the criteria for issuance of the COA I mean in the picture needs to meet the Secretary of standard of uh interior standards which these do the property needs to be should be used for its historic purpose um or be placed uh in a new use that requires a minimal change well it's going to it's it's in its historic use it's is going the applicant is going to be showing I understand movies as well as live entertainment and it's going to be used as a theater the historic property the historic character of the property shall be retained and preserved we believe that that is happening and it needs to be recognizes a physical record of its time place and use it's not creating any sort of false sense of historical development because it is being restored pretty much back to where it was most properties change over time um this prop certainly has at this point it's going back to pretty much what it's been historically the only new additions going to be the readdition of the two signs for a total of five signs in the front there's no variance from the flood plane Reg regulations this the um building official reviewed their plans and their estimate of cost and came to the conclusion that it was not triggering any need for a FEMA variant and the staff finds that the proposed certificate of appropriateness to be consistent with the city of St Pete Beach Land Development code staff is recommending approval of the proposed certificate of appropriateness for case number 2450 for the beach theater located at 315 Cory Avenue so staff is recommending approval 42 4504 COA to replace the beach theat front window wall system that was installed in 1970 and is now in poor condition in addition we need to have one more recommended motion that the historic preservation board recommends approval that the five sign signs that will be located after this window wall system has been installed that those five signs be allowed to be illuminated because at this point only three could be illuminated um unless you have any questions I am finished with my presentation yeah no I do a little bit only because I I couldn't see anything I know there's the initial drawing from like 1939 or whatever where you can kind of get an idea what what those doors look like but not really and then I've seen all the pictures of what they looked like since 1970 and then there's there's some information in there that shows some doors but then it's like they're actually going to be a little more art de yeah does anybody have any information I mean what see what look like and are there only two doors in the middle so we've plastered in into those two doors is that I see the head's nodding back there I think that applicant can come up and answer those questions please that'd be great thank you Lyn thank you well thank you Lynn you just please state your name for the record please sure I'm Brit Hayes I'm with bodak Hayes Architects so we presented or assembled this application and the plans that were submitted um the intent is not to replace the window wall with another window wall which is not true to the original era we did go back and reference the original photographs that showed two pairs of doors original um uh drawings and there is that one image which is actually a great example to see I couldn't really make anything out on it though that's why I'm just solid we don't know the detailing but we're proposing two solid doors they need to be impact rated for um today's standards we'd like to do a small um light uh and and our our um I don't know if it was included in your report I hope so but we did do a drawing of the I I don't I don't recall seeing that's why that's why I was a little concerned that it know ex cuz I'm I am highly interested and I would like to see I assume you're trying to replicate yes yes there is a drawing here yeah there's an elevation that shows the doors do and we're doing two glass lights the the lobby itself we don't want to let too much light into and from the original drawing it didn't appear that there was glass on those we do want a little bit of glass but not too much cuz the function inside is going to be needs to have less light yeah um in that space that um is kind of serves also as a light lock to the theater so you don't want that entry Lobby to be too illuminated so um we did submit the um the finish of those doors it is a high quality wood simulated look like a dark walnut I have samples here if you guys like to see it um but the intent is to that is a there's no reference for us to understand precisely what the historical original doors were but we know we're getting much closer to the original intent than the window wall that was there which is much more um referential to you know kind of a movie theater a later era type of uh entry and this one I'm looking I'm looking at page 99 of 191 I don't know if we can get it up on the screen or not but you're also proposing to change some of the the rear entrance doors or exit doors as well or no uh they as long as they're in working order no they'll just be pay okay that's fine they'll be pay they were just on this I didn't know if that was a change or not they'll be uh as long as there's no issues with their function they they'd be replaced in kind but there's no they're just um blank doors right now for eress purposes wish I could do it that fast at home while he's looking this up is there a time frame timeline for when the how late the lights can be on for the illuminated signs or can they be illuminated 247 if I may um Kristen kman uh community development director thank ju I just want to clarify that is going to the board of adjustment um that it is one the number of signs where five is proposed three is permitted the illumination is not permitted so just to to clarify they would be requesting not number of signs but also to have all of them illuminated right so if there is a recommendation from this board as far as time frame that would be great to bring forward because currently no s signs are permitted to be illuminated so we don't have a time frame for that okay and I have a question about the large marquee signs that are hanging up do we know when those were added what year and and I I think that's an important distinction if they added say maybe in 1980 that's a lot different than if they were added in 1940 you know what what is the historical significance of those Marquee those overly large marquee signs okay I don't disagree I don't know the was not on the original in the 1930 um drawing rendition they were and those of you who grew up here who went to do you remember I remember the signs being there forever yeah I do too the the big marquee signs as well as the play bills along them yeah if sure is that okay yeah yeah please thank you so much please state your name for the record though hi I'm Hannah Hawkman and yes as far as we've been able to tell those signs were original to the property there were some added we believe in the 60s at one point there were 11 signs that were all illuminated um but yes those were original as far as we can tell okay thank you all right thank you okay do anybody any more questions any more question oh I guess I the two I'm sorry I forgot your name the AR yeah but this is this is the design of the doors we're talking about exact right okay and so they're just a a flat panel door um not a lot of decorative detailing except for a really nice wood look paint finish um which is not easy to find but we found something that'll will look high quality for this yeah and and just for curiosity you're going to leave it the same blue and white as it is now that is the plan although a lot of the earlier viws show it in white it's been blue for so long I going to say and the blue seems to be built on raised a raised ass like an art deco raised there are um different kind of um levels to the to the uh stucco so it kind of works with that it does look looking at the history of the photos going all the way back at some point it was mostly white um but at least for probably 40 years or more it's been blue and white so yeah there was a rumor around Barbie week that it was going to be pink I did I didn't fall for it I I I left this office and walked down there to see if it was true those of you who grew up here was the blue and white always the iconic colors that Swit what you remember from your child I remember that's all I remember that's all I remember too and always having the AR Deco type look to it yeah do you do you remember a ticket booth being out front yes very early on yes okay and then afterwards tickets were you bought inside the and also interestingly the glass system right has the kind of like a ticket booth slots in it yeah so you can see it's much later in terms of Technology but and I like that you did the door with that um the semicircle so in the the doors will have kind of that art deco Vibe as well you know the attention to detail it's going to be more so apparent once you're able to see the interior but obviously have a lot more Liberty there but it's going to have all our Deco uh attributes to it very nice thank you okay well let me see here I guess we have I got to get back to my beginning motion to approve the certificate yeah you want to do you and then I added the uh language for the signage too you want to do it care right well so I would make a motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness uh for this locally designed historic property the beach theater on Cory Avenue to be able to replace the window wall system uh with the one described in the application in the staff report that's my first motion can I get a second on that with the five illuminate allowing but that's actually a recommendation to the board of adjustments isn't it is is is is is the illumination part of the certificate of appropriateness oh it is okay all right as well well as to approve of the five signs and they're allowing to be illuminated I would second that Madam Matthew what Madam CL it's it's actually separate that's what I was yeah sorry I was I was going to see how this worked out it's a recommendation to the board of adjustment which has the on the signs on the on the illumination onum so you're granting a certificate of appropri for the door or a motion for the certificate of appropriateness to be granted do we have a number for the certificate of appropriateness 24050 yes what a mess COA is 2450 yeah so motion to approve the certificate appr of appropriateness on case number 2450 allowing the replacement of the wall window system window wall system with the the described doors in the application and the staff report I would second Adam Clark Vice chair Hawkin Smith approved member dashel yes member hurle yes member young yes CH Lowry yes motion carries okay secondly I would like to uh recommend to the board of adjustment the variance requests which is the approval of the five signs and allowing them to be illuminated that's I second that Madam clerk member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right thank you all very much thank you thank you I think I can speak for us all to say we're very excited with what you're doing we pick which one we like best to thank you yes go Beach theater it makes me cry like it's so incredible and I love all of your videos Hannah they're really fun thank you I share them around than you very thank you thank you okay now I believe if I'm doing this correctly ongoing like a estake case forever 12 years since I started yeah I know I think he's actually in the picture the one that has the um just so happy we're making progress the movie that I could read I think that's actually Michael France in that picture the cry and to see that have tissues I know I'm telling you well there's a whole box right here I guess they knew it was going to happen they knew they knew I'm not a crier so what's going on I don't know wait till you get menopause God okay soer [Laughter] is taking a turn oh sorry 133 133 looking for gas let me see if where I'm at here this yeah no all right I'm there oh my gosh it's the jaros yeah it's it's the change in the elevation of the Jos U I have it printed out you want it no I'm going to come to it here I I don't mean to be I've got to get to it anyway okay I go back and forth with this so much so this is uh dealing for discussion purposes for the facade alteration at 2004 passing R away which formerly contained Janos and the leaping llama Cafe Randon so we have the architect here who can speak to the design this one's a little bit different from most of the design reviews you see because it's it's really just a we we just wanted to get your input um through the resolution that we passed last last year um this is the RO p district it is a commercial district and they are permitted to have this type of use there there's no use in compatibility um of course it was formerly jaro and and leaping llama I believe Molly Moes and ice cream store but they can confirm uh they are proposing to change the facade of the structure um we do have General commercial design standards however those apply to new buildings not necessarily to Renovations um in terms of the overall commercial design standards they do meet some of them it's not up to the caliber of what we would expect with the new commercial build and the passor grill overlay as few of those properties as we have but um we just wanted to bring this to you if you want to get any suggestion like I said I or wanted to provide any suggestions like I said the architect is here okay well perhaps uh I'm looking at page I'm where they have the oh I'm looking at right here you got it up already so if the architect would come forward we may have a few question question but I'd like at least to describe what we're looking at here please state your name for the record Sean Barber with empad architecture okay so are these two two separate designs for the buildings I mean front and side view this is the front and side elevations correct the the one on the right if you're looking at the screen on the right side of the screen is the uh pass way what would be the front elevator right and and is is is this still going to be two business business is there correct so it will remain as three tenants um the tenant on the far left will be Molly Moo which is an ice cream shop the center tenant um they they don't have a tenant lined up for that so that would just be I'll say a vanilla box at this point and then the leap then the to the right is the leaping llama Cafe which would which would remain okay all right so Janos which is now well the last place was both those spots correct so where you're seeing I'll say like the graay Beachwood type of a look that is where those two bays is where the old Jos was right and is that just curi that is that being designed as two separate stores though it is so there'll be a it is being split there's a there's a new demising wall that that'll be in place and Molly Moose will be in one of those or both I assume there's one of them right we don't correct Molly Mo will be on the left side okay the endcap tenant okay since we've been talking about signage so much today what's the concept for signage on this um so I'm leaving that to I'll say the owner the owner and the signage vendor M um obviously we have to adhere to you know code so I being the architect for the building I'm not going to speak to the the signage on it okay and also as we look at the the picture on the right where the I guess where the leaping llama was is that where the gray changes the white is that slightly recessed there it is so there's there's a slight relief that that's there so where where there there's currently you can kind of see where the the I'll say the the the red brick is currently on Jos um that'll part of that that'll be I'll say a whitewash thin brick um kind of keeping that brick Motif throughout the facade and then there's probably a relief of about 6 to 8 inches where that I'll say that beach wood will be kind of come a more prominent facade element I notice a cover over the leaping llama section will that continue throughout the new section with the wood finish on it it it will so the the both the leaping llama and the um the two tenants to the to the left of that will have that uh same black overhang we have just the differentiating Mark is the leaping llama has the tiebacks on that side to that white brick facade whereas the other is just a straight can lever out from the uh the I'll say the Beachwood MH and do you know when this building was originally built I don't I say I know it's been jaros for a really long time I remember going there as a high school student getting like subs and stuff so it's been there for a while it was it was way was I don't know you prior to the be the Breezeway the Breezeway was built and attached to it so it's been there since late 50s probably maybe early 6 I'm going to guess based on the midcentury Vibes I'll say based on the construction type it's block block shell with wood frame and they use the actual 1 by 12s for the uh uh for the uh decking on the roof which is that's that's a mid late that's a mid to late 50s MH okay kind of trademark okay anybody have any questions I mean personally I think anything looks I mean the windows on the side will be in addition there's nothing there at this point so they have to be added correct we're adding new clear story Windows just to get some more light into that into that side and there'll be building a parit wall that'll match your Beachwood wall above the remainder of the set of the structure where leaping L is correct so the the existing facade doesn't have that height to it we're we're extending up just a little bit um from what's there um the the beach wood will be on the Molly Mo and I'll say that vacant tenant space and it'll just turn the corner and and go around I'll say that Alleyway side um and then we're leaping llama is they'll have that white thin brick facade that you're seeing there you said it was a projection of a foot or less or six six Ines or so the beach would correct and and you don't you don't have a a rear view right no no nothing on the nothing on the rears to change at all no it shouldn't nothing should change I mean not not being the exterior anything like that I don't may you ought to turn it off I love that song I kind of sad that you're ending it uh it's on my so the rear will rear will stay the same which that's fine no no change to the rear other than than paint and really cash repair kind of a thing and I'm not really concerned what you do with the interior except for you are dividing J's that space into two shops which is interesting okay good that's what it was originally I know but I'm a saying yeah used to be the laund mat no La was leaping llama that's right yeah there was always two St Janos actually was it was it was one stall pizza parlor then it was expanded to two stalls then Jos took it over it went back to one stall then as the family changed they opened it up to two stalls here oh was it what was next to Jos between between Jos and the laundromat for the longest time I stylist yes it was I used to go there so to answer Holly's question it was built in 1968 okay that's later than I thought I I would have guessed ear I would have guessed mid late 50s that's it's younger than me maybe they tort something down and build something else there but I always thought I want anyway I don't know when they stopped using 1 by 12s in the ceiling boards where I'm over on Treasure Island and my home was a 50 a 58 home and we had 1 by 12 in that house so I I know it's kind of a trademark all right well I do appreciate the presentation we have nothing to make a decision or a vote on just to a chance to look at this uh I mean anybody any comments I mean personally I think is it's fine they're making it look a lot better than it looks now so you know I'm I think it's great I think I love the windows the windows on the side it's very nice you offer your services to the people next door I could you don't like the the red Pizza Hut roof yeah it's a landmark let's goow back to Pizza yeah no I you just work on the shop and the mind all right well very good anybody have any more questions about this no I'm fine thank all right thank you so much for coming and and sitting through this thank you absolutely thank you oh can you give us a time frame do you have idea when you're going to start work on that just wondering uh I do not I I know I know the the owner has just recently gone out just to make sure that we're keeping within FEMA regulations he's gone out to get you've got you got to go through the permanent and everything anyway right correct we're going we're going through the appraisal process and um I know we're working on construction drawings now but we haven't we haven't started permitting yet all right great thank you so much thank you okay uh we're back to either Brandon or Kristen here I guess on the agenda report for information purposes modifications from the June [Music] meeting we had made the well I believe we made the change that the board discussed back in June um for divisions 20 and 40 those were really just largely formatting um recommendations that you would you had made at that meeting we just included this as an information item to show that we completed it if you have any questions or anything else to add we'll be happy to add those in but otherwise I know you wanted to talk about scheduling the workshop so we could right this Segways into that doesn't it I think I'm I'm more concerned or have a bigger question about uh meeting with Tara And is that something that we would have to do I mean can we Matthew can we as a a committee meet with her and just us or does that have to all be open to the public for something like that individually well first I is asking as a group I know individually we don't have as a group it will be it will be uh noticed as a public hearing okay doesn't mean people will show up but it has to be okay and that takes time more than one of you meeting to get would need to be no okay that's that's why I assume but I just want to ask that CU and I know we don't have her schedule and we don't are we still talking about maybe doing something in October for the workshop or I well we were going to push it talking to right sooner but I think we have what I we have an election coming up yes so we're going to wait um but planning board just reviewed this I mean I think we're ready to move forward if I'm not mistaken planning Board review what right our changes not yet okay would you like to have Tara attend the next um this is August the September meeting that we have and then schedule later in that month the workshop well one of the elections August in the couple weeks okay so August uh yes okay that would be great because you know we we keep you know we're we're slowly doing this but we we're going to have a moment here where we really got to nail every piece down September 6 so we go to planning board when we were going to do a joint workshop with the commission but we wanted to wait till after the election so the people changed so this is interesting because it's in the Land Development code so the planning board needs to review it so how do you all right this is a good conversation let me ask a question do as of right now do we what do we have set for next month any any action items that you're aware of it's on our agenda we'll P up two action items well didn't you ask for a bunch in the beginning yeah so I just wanted so we'll have seven no no I I just me from yeah just meant from the standpoint that it'd be nice if we were able to do uh be more dedicated to to one thing we could do it as a separate workshop and not part of the meeting like we did did before and start at one conclude and then and you get notice out for that and other people would show up if they want and then we can just sit there and nail at home with Tara now would that be something yeah I think that'd be great personally I think that wouldd be a great idea all right we'll check her availability and then assuming we assuming we can do that then we would have would we do the workshop with the planning board board and the Commissioners that make sense to do it all at one time space for that how many people on the planning board I think I think you do the commission is a workshop and then it goes to planning board before it goes to commission right may we maybe we can go to the beach theater no um no because what I'm saying is if we're going to have a workshop with the commission so they know what we're doing we we should have something with the planning board so they know what we're doing so I whether it's a joint Workshop or not the planning board reviews what you've done prior to you meeting with the commission okay and and they get to do what after they review it they're your local planning agency so they can make recommendations no okay and they make do they make recommendations to the commission or to us no they make recommendations which you will see with the Commission in a joint Workshop well that okay I guess I'm priv just thinking what if the commission says I want the why didn't you know they may want Direction on what the planning board said because it's a Land Development code regulation well I get that that that's why I'm wondering whether we I don't know what the planning board would specifically do that would could affect what we're trying to do okay it's statutory that they have to review Land Development right okay okay that's fine I I get that I don't know what changes it at all well what I'm trying to do is not have a delay where we're meeting with the commission to tell them you know hey this is what we want to do and the planning board just out there saying you know we don't we don't know what this is we'll start stick our own two cents in hypothetically it's still in draft form you could have a joint workshop with the commission and then once it's final if you will it would go through the planning board and then for two readings to the commission which seems like a lot of meetings but it has to go to the planning board okay is it better and maybe Brandon had a suggest I don't know if I'm confusing everything I was just thinking with the with the city Commission workshopping maybe toward the end of next month we could potentially put something together with the planning board before then if you would a would a workshop suffice we won't have a meeting before then tax will take a vote but well we got some cups so it it could be a workshop but they have to actually make a recommendation and it would be the two workshops then the planning board for formal action that would get it before both the board and the commission to get their input before correct I missed that if it went to planning board and then we went to workshop with commission could that count as one of the two commission meetings required no because you can't take action at workshops okay could could could we have this meeting with Tara where we basic let's say we come up with a finalize this is what we're going to do show that to the planning board does it have to be on a do they have to have a meeting where they all show show up to talk about it I I don't know how the planning board works the same as you as us okay and then after that once we find out what their recommendations are if there are any then we'd have the workshop with the commission so we'd know what our final thing is so we'd have be educated on you know know what the whole story is instead of having it change after that and how many delays does that cost Char so you're looking at realistically assuming you have one Workshop which let's just assume you have two workshops with who with teror or with the commission with the commission okay let's assume you have two workshops yes one two three you're looking at five or six public hearings to get this approved okay if have we have to do it but the planning board's a new wrinkle I wasn't aware of which well it's because of the fact that it's in the land I'm not arguing the reason for I'm just saying yeah so what I'm saying is I I think we would rather know what the planning board recommended before we talk to the commission that's all I I agree with you I think having the planning board having vetted this asking questions from their perspective before we take it to the commission is important to have their support a and also I assume at the planning board meeting there'd be a representative from us to to talk about what we're trying to do well let's for sure yep 1:00 if you're available on September 6 have terara here right for our Workshop yes September 6 is a Friday right sorry September 5th September 5th okay um that we can do we we'll have to check with planning board we may or may not have a cup and I don't know that we would want to add that to the that meeting so question why are we do you guys feel like you need to meet with terara again because I thought we were good on on Ian we've met with her twice now I thought we were good on the language just asking I think we're good on the language do we I mean do we want to take it any further for that design book do we need to talk to her about that well I think the design book we decided that's something separate we talk about but we put that we don't want to slow this down I was just going to suggest if you'd like we could look at the workshop prior to your next meeting being with the planning board if appropriate if you don't feel the need to review again with Tara we're not going to have a planning board meeting this month we will have a conditional use permit in September but that'll be at the regular schedule scheduled meeting so we could look at the September 5th date um 1M possibly for a workshop I could reach out to the members with planning board with planning board and doing that instead of Terror if the board's okay with that we could check their availability could terara be there too that that was just about with the understanding that terara will probably be there there okay good yeah that all right yeah that would be excellent then you work with them recommendations yeah don't works out by the commission yes then at that point I'm going to have to make a determination whether the final version needs to just pass through planning board which is very simple to do right before a meeting okay so as we before we leave today Jennifer you're going to try to get with you will get with terara and we'll know something the next week or so whether we can do this for next September correct okay very good thank you so is that it I believe um you talked about oh yeah I ran I ran my mouth on some stuff right yeah I added some things you added commercial and overlay and garbage pickup yeah so that's say later date though yeah I the garbage pick I'm sure we don't have unless someone give me an answer right now what's happening I would just like to get an update then then be Mike Clark necessarily if if you know we can find out uh okay we talk about the [Music] workshop oh the other thing was I guess Brandon about talking about the uh commercial area in pass a grill and how he might you know add some uh amended standards for that if we wanted to just having a discussion where we wanted to put that into the overlay with amended standards right so I think we talked about the two options one would be the special zoning district one would be the overlay um I think we talked and it it sounded like the discussion was leading toward potentially amending the overlay and then zoning those properties into the overlay um we could handle that the same as the design guidelines the the the rezoning is going to take more time than it would take to typically just pass code language it has to go through a few different boards and it just takes more time overall um and we have to advertise more for it than code changes so so we' kind of just table that until we talking about maybe the design guide book I I think that would make the most sense just because it's a more timec consuming process there's an interesting wrinkle you have to do a business impact estimate now for for the comprehensive plan and reson that are not applicant initiated which I don't know if there would be an impact but well I I think without getting any real detail AR aren't that now I I think at least from my point of view I just think that that the passr zoning maps to eliminate confusion should all have a SL pag behind it even if it turns out it's not any different than it is today you know so I guess that is being rezoned to some extent but I I you know it and then even to try to put you know the language that all these zones have like we're going to add try to add to the crd to bring in the historical aspect of it just to kind of flavor that up uh I'm not saying you don't to do what you have to do but I don't think we're talking about doing anything of real significance I don't think we can well that is it would still be a rezoning even just to include the overlay and we um we don't have any comparable zoning standards for the restaurant and the marina in our overlay currently there's no building type that they could follow and any commercial property in the overlay has to follow the building type so we would need to come up with with language and building types for that that's that's that'll be timec consuming obviously mm okay so we can just talk about that at at a future date how we're going to deal with that and I think that's it isn't it so I have one question with our proposed schedule for workshops and and commission review um is there any possibility that this will get done in 2024 yeah okay I just think what's hard to guesstimate is the amount of comments in and changes and I mean it'd be done in 3 months if no one had anything else to say but if if we're being asked to you know recreate sections and go back with terara then obviously that's and I'm just thinking of the beach ordinance which I've been working on for three years and we haven't gotten approved so sry but I feel good about this as should you good all right I guess that's it adjourned thank you all