##VIDEO ID:erPrqF48Y5s## e e e e e e e e e uh so all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please Ali to of the United States of America and to the repic for it stands one nation godible Justice fors okay Madam clerk roll call please member Hurley here member young here Vice chair hackin Smith here member dashel here chair Lowry here we have a quorum okay um I guess before we get started upon approval agenda does it do any members have any disc discussion items they'd like to add to today's meeting I'd like to uh discuss a little bit more about the letters of substantial damage and the recourse that we'll be going through or offering to the residents be it historic or otherwise that something we can do we can talk Brandon I know you and I have talked about that some so it it would be good I think if the rest of the board heard the absolutely okay staff also requests to add a short discussion on small Wireless facilities to I guess that would be item 5D okay all right uh we're at the approval of the agenda any of you members had an opportunity to look at the agenda and does anyone have a motion I'll move to approve the agenda with the two added items I'll second that motion Madam clerk roll call member young yes Vice chair hackin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes chair Lowry yes motion carries okay uh folks out there this is the time where we can have audience comments uh if you want to do that you can come up and speak you have to tell us your name and address when you do speak um if you want to speak about a particular item that's on the agenda today you can reserve and and just speak at that point when it comes up so this Point's really for there just any general comments in particular that you all anyone would like to speak to does anybody have anything they like to say at this point okay we'll move on then next is uh approval of minutes um I've had an opportunity to read those and I would make a motion to approve the minutes of November 7th 2024 which is the regular meeting and also of the November 19th 2024 special meeting I'll second mam clerk roll call Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes chair Lowry yes motion carries okay uh move on to number four action items first up is action item 4A which is a local historic designation it's number 24085 for 108 12th Avenue sameach uh Mr Barry do you have a presentation I do before getting started just wanted to make a few comments um thank you all for attending we have a great interest in the local historic designation program offered by the city um especially post storm and uh we really appreciate you coming out and um being willing to designate your structures as historic I have um I believe I sent an email to everybody who applied for this app for this meeting um regarding the waiver so the city requires even if you apply as homeowner to designate your structure that you either wait 30 days following the hearing or wave that 30-day notice to place your structure on the registry it's not required we can still hear your case today if we do not have that waiver I believe we have a few that have not been submitted um but in order to take advantage of any of the benefits that come along with local historic designation particularly this substantial Improvement or substantial damage waiver uh we will need to have that on file so you can submit it at the meeting um you're welcome to submit it afterward if you want think it over I just wanted to make a note about that and uh we will talk about the substantial Improvement exception and the letters that went out later on so I'll leave that for that time if we could pull up the PowerPoint so our first case is for 108 12th Avenue it's case number 2485 applicant owner is Cheryl Abraham she's requesting local historic designation of the front on story single unit rental and the rear two story 2unit rental at the subject Pro property here's some photographs of the site this is from this is an undated photograph but it was included with the applicant's 1936 property card it shows the structures and they really have been very well preserved looking back um close to 80 years now the front structure you can see at the top peak roof line as well as in the rear those loued vents are still present the structure does still have the knee braces and the uh rafter taals that it has today here's showing the photo from a 1996 survey that was performed by members of the historic preservation board um The Patio on the east side of the structure is a later addition um but the structure itself both the front and the rear have been very well preserved in that craftsman style the rear is more of a frame vernacular and here is the structure in 2015 as part of the city's updated historic resources survey the structure was found to be a contributing resource in the boundary increase of of passor Grill in 2003 and it was reaffirmed in 2015 in the city's historic resource survey staff was out to visit the site um there was a little bit of damage to the lattice around the porch at the front of the structure however otherwise it appeared to be in good condition not have sustained much exterior damage from the storm staff supports the application to locally designate the structures at 108 12th Avenue as local historic resources we find the building to be significant in the area of AR ecture specifically the frame vernacular with Craftsman detail for the front structure and the period having been constructed in 1922 the early 20th century staff requests that the board make motion to approve case 2485 for local historic designation of both the front single story residents and the rear two-story garage apartment residents at 108 12th Avenue uh the applicant is present by phone um so we will pull her up for any questions good afternoon is this Miss Abraham yes hi good afternoon hi good to hear you today um if you heard this what Mr Barry was just talking about is there anything You' like to tell the board here uh before we have some discussions yes it's kind of a little muzzled um it's kind of hard to hear but I am watching it live it's a little laggy it almost sounds better live but then I think I'm a minute or two behind you know so it was kind of tough but um and I was watching it live and I didn't realize I could do that and then I realized those pictures are really cool I don't know where Brandon found those I've been searching and searching and I'm like please send those to me if can because um I did not know I didn't I was trying to get older pictures so I was really it was really cool just to see that I was like wow that's oh my gosh so anyways um sorry that was just exciting to me a second ago and so yeah um the house is old but in great shape it has had no structural damage to it um it's been flooded in Helen in ' 85 I know because I lived in it I was 6 years old so um and we haven't changed it since so it's um it's a great place um it's the house I was born in grew up in um there were other things on the 1923 yeah 1923 map um application that I sent in um you can see the structure as well um the front structure the back structure I don't know when that was built um obviously it was built a long time ago because I just saw it in the pictures he just had up so that I couldn't find anywhere um and I did call the Tampa Hillsboro to try to get information from them the only place I was able to find anything old enough from 1923 was the main house um that was on the map that um that the uh University of Florida had in their Library that's all they had was the map so I did attach it to my application and I did Circle that although I saw in my application the circle didn't show up so um anyways you can see that on that and and it used to be called Second Avenue or Second Street not 12th Avenue back in the 1920s so I thought that was interesting how the streets changed a little bit but um anyway so that's I'm excited to see those pictures I'm really happy Brandon found that um and then I don't know if there were any questions for me it was hard to hear what you guys were saying but at least I was able to follow through with pictures so um that was that if you have any questions for me you can ask me okay thank you uh let me ask any members of the board here do do you all have any questions for Miss Abraham I do not I have a couple of questions um that isn't going to change my mind about historic designation but just so that we have it on the record were all three units occupied pre- storm were they occupied no they were not no because I I have them as rentals and they were not occupied okay yeah they're um they're legal short-term rentals um they're grandfathered in that was one of my other questions and with them being vacant and some major construction happening is Staff going to assist in keeping those certificates and grandfathering Status active so that she can maintain three units and the short-term rentals correct so historic structures get both zoning waivers on substantial damage um as well as there there being the FEMA um exception in place as well so okay those are my only questions I just wanted to make sure that you were able to keep your grandfathering for those short terms and unit numbers oh I see yeah if we if you mean if I go historic uh no just with a lack uh with a lapse and occupancy and I'm not sure how long it's going to take to get them back habitable again I just wanted to make sure that no Gap was going to interfere with your with your licensing and grandfather status so oh I see okay yeah yeah I did submit a permit um most of it the nice thing is most of it is all the original walls and wood wall of wood most of it is wood which is great I think they built it that way to to be flooded I don't know but um it's been flooded as wood before and I grew up in the the wood it never was Chang so um I think you know other than that you know there's some drywall here and there but it's not a lot um and so I did I did raise the ACs already and I did do the electrical um I did raise that as well because I had them just redo the whole thing I was like just raise it all up just put it all you know do all the wiring just make it up in case if it ever does you know get water again it won't I won't have to redo it again so um so they did that and then I don't know whatever else what else did I do the only thing I haven't raised are the water heaters there's only two but um because it's kind of hard to raise those they would look weird and they would be outside of the structure if I raised them because it is a on story so it would look weird to put the water heater on the roof or something I don't know where You' put it but um but that was the only thing I didn't change so uh I did change them change outs but I didn't do raising the water heater so I didn't know where you'd put it but um but other than that that um that that was done just in case for the future that kind of stuff I don't plan on doing any building to it I plan to keep it the same um I don't plan on tearing it down I don't have the money to go up like you know 16 feet or whatever the the rule is but um so I don't plan on that but if if that's an option I'm allowed to do one day when I have money maybe um I don't know I know I if I do go historic and you guys approve it I guess I would have to get that approved through you guys first to go up to raise it right I mean that's something that that would have to be approved um but other than that I don't plan on doing much I have old windows half the windows are the old wavy glass from the 1900s um I've never redone them but honestly I think they work better than the new windows these days just because they've never had a problem um like blowing out in the wind or anything you know any of that kind of stuff so um so that so even the glass is historic um you know so that's kind of cool um so other than that I mean it just I don't know it's a cute little cottage Beach Cottage Place so that's you know I think it was built to get flooded to be honest but that's just my perception but um anyway so yeah that's it I wish I could be there at the meeting I'm in Arizona so I'm sorry I'm through the phone I know that's it's weird but um uh I just appreciate you guys and all your work you're doing and what you're doing for pres preserving pass of Grill in sty Beach and you know you guys are are helping the future really so I just want to thank you for your for your time too okay thank you are there any audience members that have any comments all right any discussion amongst the board here anybody have any questions or make any comments I would like to make a motion but I have a question for Brandon first um I was really impressed with all the narratives and the photographs the the historical Narrative of these properties the amount of detail that has gone into both by the staff and the applicants my question is now that we have captured this information in a narrative and in photographs will this information live in a permanent file in a permanent place maybe in the property records of the property or I'm not sure I just want to make sure we don't lose this information um we do we do have folder you know digital folders for all of our cases moving forward in terms of anything that's published online it would of course be through the agenda but um we don't have like an online repository page at this point but we do we do keep all of our documents unlik previous meetings we okay well thank you well I would like to move that we designate local historic designation for case 2485 I'll second that motion roll call please member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right congratulations Miss Abraham have fun in Arizona yes thank you thank you so much and good luck with everything you had going on I'll probably keep watching your meeting but um I'll hang up okay enjoy enjoy the show all right next we go to 4B which is a local designation local historic designation number 2466 for the property located at 400 passeng girl way Mr Barry that will actually be Lyn Rosetti oh okay Miss Rosetti sorry good afternoon afternoon so the first case that I have today is other way ly sorry wrong way okay this is local designation for 400 passag gril way case number 2466 the owners are Joseph and Sandra rhs and they're requesting a local historic designation of a two family residence on the subject property this property is zoned um rlm2 which is residential low medium density and it is part of the pass gril overlay District it was built in 1910 it was built in The Craft style of architecture and it's known it was known as the Welden Welden house it was the home of PG and Emma Waldren he was very active in state politics and she was active in civic affairs got some photographs of the property this is an old photograph that I was able to get off the original property card record that we have in our archives for passag grill a little bit later photograph and apparently a more recent photograph so staff is supporting this application to locally designate 400 passag rilway and finds that the building is significant to the following areas architecture it is the Craftsman's style and one of the earliest remaining buildings of its era in passag Grill the building was associated with individuals PG and Emma Waldren who were involved in the early Community planning and development of pasag gril which was an individual Township until 1957 when it was incorporated with three other townships into the City of St Petersburg Beach which was later renamed St Pete Beach not senior we are recommend amending approval of case number 2466 for historic designation of this residential property be glad to answer any questions you have and there may be some people in the audience who would like to speak thank you just just first just for the record you got to say your name and your address please Sandy and Joe roads 400 pass of gr away okay go ahead um we just want to put the house back it is one of the original ones and it's it's a cool old house and um we're the third owners since the beginning been there 40 Years first time it's been flooded yeah we just want to put it back together sure and I don't have any questions no I think we're good glad to answer I don't do somebody have any questions of the roads I don't know we I'm sure we all agree it's a beautiful great old house as well um I'll make the motion go ahead uh motion to approve case number 2466 for the local historic designation of the residential property at 400 pass Grill way I'll second that motion Madam clerk roll call please member Hurley yes member Young yes member Hawkin Smith yes member dashel yes chair Lowry yes motion carries than congratulations thank you okay next uh forc that is uh again a local historic designation number 24079 for the property at 2702 passor girl way Miss Rosetti you have a presentation yes I do so the property this is a local historic designation for property at 2702 passag gril way case number 24079 this property was is a contributing property in the pasag grill National register historic district it was built in 1938 and located um in the National register pass gril District records its uh zoning is LMN rlm2 which is residential low medium and it's a single family residential structure it's a frame vernacular and it um is a contributing property to the passag gril National register Historic District staff staff L needs here these are photographs of how it looks today staff supports this application to locally designate 2702 passag gril way and finds the building is significant in the following areas architecture the frame vernacular in very good condition it this is an early 1938 pre-World War II residential building and it reflects the community planning and development of passag Grill as such staff recommends that case number 2479 for local designation of this residential property at 2702 pass gr away be approved you GL to answer any questions you may have and the owners may be here to speak on behalf anyone have any questions for Miss Rosetti I do not okay Property Owners want to come forward and speak chair I did speak to the property owners they were not able to make it to this meeting they did ask that if you had any questions that would prevent designation that it be deferred to the January meeting so okay well I'm going to call this one a fast one then and I'll make a motion uh to locally um designate 2702 pass girl away which is designation number 2479 second Adam clerk member young member young yes Vice chair hkin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right moving along 4D which is 3521 Casablanca Avenue which is local historic designation number 2481 is that you again miss Rosetti thank you okay this property located at 3521 Casablanca Avenue is located within the Don CeSar Place Neighborhood this particular property is frame vernac I'm sorry whoops this is this particular property is a contributing property within the Don zazar neighborhood and it is a single family residential property zoned R2 which is single family residential it was built in 1964 and it's a mid-century ranch style of architecture and it was loc it was identified during the very recent 1924 historic survey of the Don CeSar and and B Vista neighborhoods it was a contributing and the Consultants found the property to be contributing to the district it's pretty typical of what is out there and its Integrity is very good staff finds and and recommends approval of the local historic designation of this residential property located at 31 3521 cassablanca Avenue because it reflects the broad cultural economic and social social history of the Donar neighborhood and that of St Pete Beach staff recommends a motion to approve the local historic designation of case 2481 for this is a duplex Residence at 3521 Casablanca I'm sorry this one that was a typo this is I double checked and this is a single family residential not a duplex thank you here okay hi Armstrong 3521 cablanca Avenue Paul as well hi so we are looking to uh restore the house because we think it's architecturally aesthetically beautiful we can see the dces are from our back windows and also doing some research when um I just you know you follow one Street ring and I found the very original owner of the house was Bernice Delmar West who was married to Robert buers and on that deed of transfer in 1964 when she sold the plot of land you can see it says Widow unmarried you know Bernice West but when I looked I thought maybe the husband had significance but in actually her she's a descendant of an um very well renowned American Artist Nathaniel West but then she was also an artist in her own right who exhibited primarily in the new New England area and Florida I actually have pictures of some of her paintings I found some archival footage of records of her in the Smithsonian so I imagine at that time you know when the house was built and when the people that were coming down here there was a lot of artists or a lot of afone you know the Bush family so it's a lot of interesting there was an interesting art movement going on at that time so in that respect there's a little bit of art history that we were going to continue to dig into and we go to DC a lot so we're going to actually look up her history at that time you know women weren't ever prominently featured as artists so we're going to continue looking into that I think she'd be pleased anyway we think it's a beautiful house and thank you for taking it into consideration Paul anything I think so thank you thank you for the information on the owners that's interesting I think M just just briefly when the historic survey was done this past year the researchers did not find everything that may be available on the houses in question you know that that have been designated as contributing so when owners do find some information if they could pass it along to us we would be glad to include it in the historic record thank you very good thank you Len I have a question is this 1964 is this going to be one of our youngest houses on the local register um actually right now um the the library other than the library as far as the residential well so far but in in these two in the doncesar neighborhoods and Bel Vista neighborhoods they are primarily midcentury um Mid Century houses and they span from post post World War II very few buildings built before the World War I and then it picks back up again in about 1948 49 and it isn't until the servicemen start coming home from the war and start you know finishing College getting married starting a family that they then started buying houses in the 1950s and on into the 1960 60s and those eras we really were getting a lot of building being done so some of the earliest ones are in the 40s there are I I believe in Don CeSar maybe a dozen or so that are preor War I two I mean two pre-World War II and um and then in the 40s it begins to pick up a little bit after the war ended but then the 1950s building really be becomes more intense so I think sometimes look at it also from what was pre- Bridge yeah you didn't have a bridge until 1919 so no one could you know and then the Advent of air conditioning made a big difference which was you know post-war pretty much for people to start living at the B okay thank you thank you fascinating okay anybody have a motion or any comments on this case I'll make a motion to approve case number 2481 for local historic designation of the residential property at 3521 costablanca Avenue I'll second that motion Madam clerk court uh roll call please Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right uh 4E local historic designation number 24 4086 for the property at 1081 15th Avenue that you Brandon pull up the presentation please this is 108 15th Avenue specifically the front residence um the request is for the front residents case number 24086 applicant and owner are Terry and Margaret Perna they're requesting local historic designation of the one-story single family residence on the property here's some photographs this is showing the structure back with its 1936 property card um the structure has since been enclosed at the front um you can still recognize the original elements the overhanging eaves the half- hipped roof uh they even have the same lattice work down at the crawl space of the structure um the front of it has been enclosed uh this is the photo from 2015 when it was picked up as a contributing resource in the city's resurvey of pass Grill it was also considered a contributing resource in the 2003 boundary increase of the passor grill National register historic district and here's a structure today um staff had noted and the applicant had had pointed to the uh the damage to the roof they do plan to replace the roof um as with a permit um following designation so staff supports this application to locally designate the front structure at 1081 15th Avenue there is a garage at the rear of the site that is considering non consider non-contributing um so this would be specifically for the front residents we find the building to be significant in the following areas that it embodies the distinct visual characteristics of the frame vernacular style in the early 20th century this structure of course abuts the Hurley Park which was once the Washington Park uh to the South it's one of two remaining contributing structures along 15th Avenue Hurley park being one of the city's uh historic sites uh so it is important just for that context and for that um that local importance that it has relative to our one of our historic sites so we request a motion to approve case 2486 for local historic designation of the front single story residents at 1081 15th Avenue that's all I have okay anybody here that wants to speak about this hi please say your name name and address for the record please um Terry and Heidi perno 1081 15th Avenue I don't know if you had a chance to read my letter that I submitted sure I just yes have sums up our feelings she'll turn 100 this year 2025 and we just like to save her we'll be the only older house on 15th Avenue once the two lots are built on the Hurley apartments are going the house next to the Hurley Apartments that's going I'm sure so we just like the opportunity to to save her yes thank you okay any questions I have none right thank you all any questions with us per me I'll make a motion go ahead yeah uh motion to sorry motion to approve case number 24086 for the local historic designation of the front single story Residence at 1081 15th Avenue second Madam clerk roll call please member dashel yes member Lowry yes member Hurley sorry yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes chair Lowry yes motion carries okay good uh 4f local historic designation number 2487 the home at 3611 Casablanca Avenue good afternoon board members Gil Martinez senior planner Community Development for you today is a request for local historic designation for the property located at 3611 Casablanca AV um case number 24087 the applicant is philis Parker the owner Miss Parker is requesting local historic designation of the duplex residents on the subject property staff finds and recommends approval of local historic designation of this residential property located at 3611 Casablanca Avenue a because it reflects the broad cultural and economic and social history of the Don CeSar neighborhood and that of St Pete Beach it also has been designated as a contributing property in the Donar neighborhood because it supports the existing character of the overall Donar neighborhood through its through its area of historical significance of community Planning and Development recommend staff recommends a motion to approve case number 24087 for local historic designation of the front single story Residence at 3611 Casablanca Avenue I Believe Miss Parker is here to answer any questions that you may have m'am you want to come forward not really okay well this is just your opportunity if you don't want to say anything I don't think it's going to affect anything but uh I'm pH Parker 3611 Casablanca Avenue um all I can say is the house is adorable and and um many of my neighbors the same architect built as as mine and I think a couple years ago someone my age came to my house and they were sitting on the front porch taking a picture because their grandmother was who had built the house and they super happy that it still looked the same and I'm super happy that it still looks the same too so hopefully we don't ever have another storm like this but I'd like to keep it the way it is and what year was it built just to remind I think 1949 yeah I was going to say this has got some interesting it is it's it has really pretty curvatures to it in the um like the awnings and stuff and scalloped edges that are okay anything else any questions for this fine lady I do not have any okay um I'll make a motion at this time for local historic designation in for 3611 Casablanca Avenue which is number 2487 I'll second that m M clerk roll call please member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes member dashel yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right thank you thank you next we go to 4G local historic designation number 24091 at 1097th Avenue can pull up the PowerPoint please this is case one case 24091 for 1097 Avenue Jeff and Joseph James kateria are requesting local historic designation of the one-story single family residents on the property here's some photographs is showing the structure as attached to the 1936 property card uh since this photo was taken you can still see the original roof line there was a shed uh front porch edition added on in an unknown year uh this was taken for the properties uh Florida master s it file in 2015 the structure was found contributing in both the boundary increase of the pass pass national register historic district in 2003 as well again as in uh 2015 um so this was the structure back in 2015 there has been one minor modification since then which is the addition of the six over one windows with the Mulan those are actually more contemporary with the structure when it was constructed rather than the windows that were on it previously so this was looked at as by step has a has a positive change and this is showing the structure taken late last month staff finds the um application to locally designate the front structure is 109 7th Avenue supportive as a local historic resource we find the building to be um to embody the distinctive visual characteristics of the frame vernacular style and the early 20th century period staff recommends approval to motion to approve case 2491 for local historic designation of the single story residents at 1097th Avenue and I believe we do have the applicant present good afternoon um Jeff katano 109 7th Avenue pass a grill um yeah so uh my uh great-grandfather I think built the house according to my mom who passed away um back in 1925 I think it was built then but Brandon sent me a card we thought it might have said age 1906 on that you might want to check that but if it's 1926 um the front porch was done probably if you looked on the very first picture it was up on block now it has continuous foundation around I'm pretty sure my great-grandfather lifted the house dug around it and can put continuous foundation on it it's not it's it's got continuous Foundation now and that's when I think they put the front porch on which I think might have been in the' 40s okay if I'm not mistaken and then since then um there's been some modifications inside but it's basically where it it sat um I did want to saw something on this packet here about um some property that was conveyed so just to make a long story short the guy next to me at my great-grandfather own that house too but anyways in 20 21 he sold the house his house it got stopped in title because um apparently in 1975 some fool surveyor came out and called the Alle 16 ft according to the 1895 plat the alley is 18 ft that kinked the front lines of all those houses this way which then put my property lot 13 Corner 28 ft lot 12's house on my line we had two certified State Certified surveyors say that so I he came over he's a good friend of my parents he came over hey Jeff I can't sell my house you got to sell me a little piece of this land or I'm going to have to make him move his house for 28 square sliver so we went through I conveyed that piece to him I was closing I was refinancing he was closing we just did it same day so we got that done about 4 months after that I run into um an oldtime surveyor I forget his name now breno brenel he I got talking to him on the yeah I got talking to him I said I just had a house on my property goes where do you live he goes oh I know all about 7th Avenue all those surveys are wrong and he told me about miles Dome who messed up this and that so now we went back to law we got the lawyers involved to make a long story short we're in agreement going to be settled hopefully in the next month or two I'm getting that land conveyed back so it's going to be returned to OT it's proper legal description block six lot 13 I have an $88,000 survey done in all those lots by uh young which I'll be happy to give to you if you want for the recordet and that's they re retraced the whole block so we know that's a solid survey so um outside of that and I guess that's it all right interesting very good thank you and you know and Brandon I I I can mention this later anyway but these sandborn maps that everyone talks about you you're familiar with those right yes what's the one of my neighbors has a whole bunch of them some of them pre- Bridge even do do you have that does the city have that you know I know we have 1920s give or take this like a 197 or something like that reason I say that is because last uh when you said you thought it was built in ' 06 that would show that you know what I mean because most that stuff south of 8th was pre 1920s it's very hard to read on that card it might maybe it said I don't yeah but you you think it's it's before the 20s right I thought my mom always said was 25 but then I was showing Chris that card in the picture and he goes I think that's his age 1906 well I was going to say those man Maps I've had I got copies somewhere on but but they're really good and it shows the really real in fact those maps that one I'm talking about they don't even have addresses they went by the people how they named the house like the by we or something like that you know so it's pretty fascinating so well we if you don't I'll get that and we can we probably Identify some of these homes by their actual B I do have one more question if you have to go for a variance because you need 50% you're over your 50% you need to go for a variance what I'm trying to figure is a rumor going around like to really settle that rumor that some people are saying once you get that variance just like maybe fix a kitchen redo a kitchen redo a bathroom whatever even if it's just inside it's not even outside there's no structural change that you get that variance you're not allowed to be in the National flood program anymore and you have to go out and seek outside insurance is does anybody have an answer to that I I I don't specifically I can comment a few things Brandon you know that specific question I'm not familiar with that and we have had several Varan properties obtain variances so the city has a two-part process now we have the variances for the more significant work someone adding onto their home if they're majorly changing the front facade items like that um for that interior work that is just through a building permit it's something that we verify that you are still a designated historic structure there's been no unpermitted work that would have altered that and then you would get the permit so that those are two separate processes but the Varian is more intense more involved process that if you're only looking for interior renovation you would not need to go through that yeah cuz some of this house has a pretty low 50% rule I can get it appraised up I suppose but it's pretty minuscule so just just Rand clarify so if we're just doing interior then you don't we don't they don't technically have to get a variant correct correct okay good correct so most of the so really we're talking about when people want to do significant additions to the house and things of that nature yes not necessarily because of storm damage you know this is where you're really trying to increase the size of your house and do that kind of thing so let me kind I understand that better so you're saying that I don't need a variance I get an appraisal just say get an appraise but I don't need a variance I want to do indoor work new kitchen with remodel kitchen or bathroom I don't need a variance for that even if it if like my 50% right now is $37,000 which is nuts but um I wouldn't need to do a variance if I wanted to go more just long as it's inside correct so interior only would not affect all right I didn't understand it thank you all right good any other questions or any comments I would actually like to make a motion that um I move that we give local historic designation to case number 2491 which is 1097th Avenue for single family residents on the subject property yes a second Madame uh clerk roll call please member young yes Vice chair hackin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right next 4H local historic designation number 2492 for the residents at 3408 East deason Avenue thank you this is a local historic designation at 348 East deas Avenue that that's your house that's Casablanca yeah you've got you got the wrong picture on it okay well wow they built a lot of those cuz I noticed earlier the map you used on the other one was this map the if you never mind okay this got the maps got switched I think uh because on the one on Casablanca it showed a map that was actually on De basm I suppose that can happen when you're rapidly doing many yeah it can easily happen so okay yeah well uh the applicant owner is Dave green and he is requesting a local historic designation of this single family residence it is a mid-century modern Ranch it was built in 1959 it is in located in the Don cazar place neighborhood and it's a contributing structure to that neighborhood and therefore as a contributing structure we are able to go forward with a local histor designation request let's see another picture of the house but it might not be the right one um staff findings and recommendations are that staff is recommending approval of the local historic designation of this residential property located at 348 East to Basin Avenue because it reflects the broad cultural economic and social history of the Don our neighborhood and that of St Pete Beach I'll try I will be glad to answer any questions you have and sure the property owner would like to come up and speak as well thank you thank you I don't even know where to go with this um first state your name that's where you start Dave Green 3408 East de Bon Avenue right uh the home was built in 1959 it has all its original trazzo all its original tile uh the outside structure is solid solid brick uh nothing's been affected in the storm on the outside on the inside we need drywall lower cabinets just like everybody else it's a neat old home historic like myself one thing I noticed is so you have like a brown tile in the bathrooms right uh it like because I've always seen pink and yellow and green kind of like a pink it's closer to pink picture itself this is like a new I I don't know what the color wheel was back there but you know all the houses with Tazo fls generally have the the bright bathrooms right the closest tile we could find to match it is uh like Habitat for Humanity out in Hillsboro they change that location but that's the closest place we could find for it okay anybody have any questions for Mr Green I don't that I'll make a motion to approve case number 2492 for the local historic designation of the residential property at 348 East deison Avenue I'll second that motion uh Madame clerk R roll call Vice chair Hawkin Smith approved member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes CH Lowry yes motion carries thank you thank you thank you okay next we have 4i local historic designation number 2493 for 2806 passag gr way Mr Martinez good afternoon board members Gil Martina's senior planner Community Development um the request before you is for local historic designation for the property located at 2806 passive grill way it is case number 2493 the applicants are Russell and Renee tjma they are requesting local historic designation of the single family residents on the property these are some historic pictures of um the 2015 survey front of the property and the rear um Garage on staff recommends approval of the local historic designation of this residential property located at 2806 pass a grill way because a it embodies the distinctive visible characteristics of an architectural style masonry vernacular and period mid-century staff makes a recommendation to approve case number 2493 for local historic designation of the single family resident property with that I believe Mr and Mrs TMA are here to um speak to any questions that you may have on the property thank you afternoon good afternoon um Russ and Renee tejima were the owners at 2806 passor Grill way um we wanted to give you a little context for why we're here today because we don't come with the historical context you've heard from some of the owners here today we literally bought this property in July of this year oh congratulations thank you welcome to the beach yeah thank you um but there's a very specific reason why we bought this house and why it's important to us that it stays as it is uh we moved to Tampa in 2016 uh it was a professional move but we have set down routs here um this is where we want to stay in fact our son is here with us today he's home from UF for the holidays and uh in the eight years that we've lived here um P gorill has become our beach um countless walks on that beach a lot of family memories with a dinner bell at uh Paradise Cafe um there's a sense of place there that just resonates with us and uh when this home came up for sale um this past summer we felt very blessed to be in a position to buy it um as a second home for our family um and we spent a fair bit of time there in the short time uh between when we bought it in the storms um it as you've seen from the the package it has a number of the original details it's why we bought the house we've always wanted to have one of the original Beach cottages or something close to the water that has that feel about it and this home clearly exudes that and and again I'll say it again there's a sense of place in this property it's a very Stout little home it's very well-loved from what we can tell in our research there were only four owners before us two of them were in the property for a very long period of time we certainly hope to be in that case ourselves um so I wanted to just give you that additional context as to to why it's important to us particularly in the aftermath of the storms frankly we're concerned about how the the flavor of Pastor Grill may change and you know we feel there's at least in some small way the duty we have to to try to help preserve the historic character of The District so that's why we're here today we're grateful for your consideration anything you'd add great any questions and those are very kind words too we I can tell you we all appreciate those you know the people that move the area that are are interested in preserving the area as well as we can so welcome to Pastor girl sorry your first uh summer was a little wet we will persevere yes very good thank you thank you okay thank you thank you I make a motion motion to approve case number 24093 for the local historic designation of the residential structure at 2806 passing Railway second mam clerk roll call please member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair huckin Smith yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right going on to 4J local historic designation number 2494 for the residents at 3610 Casablanca [Applause] Avenue okay hi hi you did this one for us all right you're going to see all of us today all the your planners we're all you all hard work I mean have to be after this right okay uh good evening chair Vice chair and members of the board Kristen Coman senior planner um this is case number 24094 they're asking for a local historic designation uh Anna and Anna and Kevin Morris is located at 3610 caanka Avenue and the requesting local historic designation of the duplex resident uh on the subject property uh this property was built in 1949 it's a ranch style structure it's currently used as a duplex uh one interesting thing um when reviewing the property within City Records it indicated that limited permits um had been obtained in connection with any improvements um on the property which would indicate that the original character of the dwelling uh has been maintained since it was initially constructed it may also look a little bit familiar because you previously saw um case number 24087 which is also the duplex at 3611 uh Casablanca so their neighbors said talk to each other um so evaluation of the structure during the 2024 survey found it to be a contributing structure to the Don CeSar neighborhood staff finds or recommends approval of the local historic designation of this residential property located at 3610 cabla Avenue because staff does find the structure is significant in the following areas it refle reflects the broad cultural economic and social history of the Don CeSar neighborhood and that of St Pete Beach it has been designated as a contributing property in the doncesar neighborhood because it supports the existing character of the overall doncesar neighborhood through its area of historical significance of community planning and development and with that uh staff does seek a motion to approve the local historic designation case 2494 for the duplex residents at 3610 do you know do they is it still used as a dup duplex I know they would answer that too and and was previous duplex also uses a duplex just wondering okay MH and I think it was last month we were talking about the other duplexes down there in Don CeSar place that were connected with the Don CeSar I think I believe those were yeah so you should all have a duplex club or something like okay it's called Casablanca hav it no but yeah no but uh the other acoss from larell park right across from larell Park there's like four in a row there yeah they're pretty fast and I think I don't know when they would have been built but maybe more in the 40s or something maybe maybe the same time frame but I'm not sure but it is interesting because they all have the alley access that kind of deadend there too so I heard they were like part of the Don like for people that came to stay for a longer periods of time would rent those places but I don't know that's whether that's accurate or not don't know all right all right thank you ma'am you want to step forward of course thank you to all of you my name is Anna Morris my husband Kevin and I own 3610 Casablanca and my mom back there Sheila mzn who ran in on the beach for 15 years or so lives in the other side of the duplex actually I am a third generation native of the area and have deep roots in St Pete Beach as an example when I was a kid my sister and I were very thrilled when my mom decided that we would move from a house in Gulfport to one of the houses on the Bayway uh right by the toll plaza there and um in particular as teenagers my sister and I loved that we had this secret sneaky access to the beach through the Don CeSar Place Pathways little did we know that we weren't really as punk rock as we thought because we were we lived on maritana so um it was um you know made us a little bit more popular in high school I would say that we had that particular access but I was super excited when I got the opportunity as an adult to join the Don CeSar place neighborhood and um honored really to be able to give the TLC to this house um as you may have um noticed in some of the pictures that I submitted we have some very cool features that have been retained even through the flood and um we intend to really honor those and retain those as much as possible but the other part is that now my kids get to experience the beautiful nature of the area walks on the beach sunsets and they also get to meet awesome strong Community neighbors like Phyllis uh across the street from us and grow up with that community that I had um as a child so I thank you for recommending our home for historic designation we really do truly cherish those 1949 features that we have and fortunately they were strong enough to survive the floods of Helen and we intend to preserve them as much as possible um while perhaps beyond the purview of this particular board since I have the opportunity I'd like to publicly voice a request that I have made to the city formally that someone please come and inspect the inside of our home to see how well it with stod Helen we received a substantial damage notification but I believe an inspection of the actual damage which shows that our wood floors from 1949 are in tremendous condition our bathrooms with the very cool pastel tiles are still standing would show that we actually were not in fact substantially damaged and that would allow me to avoid having to spend unnecessary money in a private appraisal or requesting a variance that could potentially increase my flood insurance so excellent point and we are stick around because we're going to talk about that that's the discussion item we added okay to talk about that thing and uh I know Brandon can give more information about that and there's but you're not the first person that has well you know they're they're inspecting it from outside the house and a lot of these old houses like you said people think well they got flooded they're going to have to tear out their walls and their floors and a lot of the houses someone mentioned earlier were kind of designed to be flooded exactly they don't have dry wall they have hard woods they yep once they dry out they're fine and you know uh makes a big difference as far as how damaged your home really is and so I think that's a work in progress and this is a little bit new but if you stick around we're going to be talking about that a little bit and I'm sure you might hear something that may be helpful but your your points perfectly taken because you don't have you're historically designated but you don't have to get a variance if you're under the 50% or even 30% aspect of the house as Mr Barry said with we don't you may not have to get a variance anyway for just replacing interior things yeah but there is a hook if you get a variance you know on your on your structure that could affect your your flood insurance I don't think anybody knows exactly what or even if it would necessarily but it's a boogeyman that's out there that concern people so stick around okay I will thank you very much thank you so much to all of you anybody have any questions no I don't I when we get our agenda packet I always drive around to all of our cases just to kind of drive by and get familiar with the house and the block and and certain characteristics of the properties and I don't make a habit of getting out of my car and peeking in the windows normally but but because I know and love the residence of 3610 I did just that I was amazed at the condition of the house on the inside it just made me my heart so happy to see all those special things intact there so it knows that you love it yeah it does I'd like to make a motion that we designate local historic designation to case 2494 which is 3610 cablanca Avenue um designation of the duplex residence on the subject property second Madam clerk roll call please Vice chair Hawkin Smith yes member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes CH Lowry yes motion carries all right next 4K local historic designation number 2410 for the home at 3607 Casablanca Avenue Mr zetti thank you okay um Katherine garchow who owns the property is requesting local historic designation of this single family residence and it is a property that is was built in 1954 it's a contributing mid-century ranch style building it has a single family zoning of ru2 residential Urban and the house is part of the 1924 historic survey of the Don CeSar and Bell Vista neighborhood that took place in two in uh 2024 this is a picture of the house and staff findings and recommendations are to approve the request for the local historic designation of this residential proper proper located at 3607 cablanca Avenue because it reflects the broad cultural economic and social history of the Don CeSar neighborhood and that of St Pete Beach if you got any questions I'll try to answer them I have any any questions does the owner want to come forward I good afternoon I'm Kathy gara resident at 3607 Casablanca Avenue um thank you for hearing my case and uh I guess similar to what you heard from one of the other earlier uh I guess cases I bought they enclosed on this home about a year ago the day before ad Delia hit so um so I've gone through a few things here I've been coming to this area though and my family lives over in ter birty for um half my life so I've been um yeah really i' been cherishing I guess this whole Don CeSar community and of course P gril so to have the opportunity finally to buy my little piece of paradise here you can see there was a a sign there hasn't not been a sign pretty much since the day that I bought it um and um that's part of the reason why I guess I'm I'm here for historic designation because I was under the process of doing some Rehabilitation and and improvements um nothing to change the appearance of it I do love just keeping it as the smaller single family home neighbors with some of the properties that you've already seen um love the charm of the neighborhood and love to keep it that way so um got nice Cove ceilings inside plan to continue to keep all that architecture and uh anyhow hope that I can be a part of the uh the historical aspect of our neighborhood very nice thank you anybody have any questions I'll make a motion okay uh motion to approve case number 2410 for the local historic designation of a single family residents at 3607 Casablanca Avenue I'll second that Madame clerk roll call please member dashel yes member Hurley yes member young yes Vice chair Hawkins Smith yes chair Lowry yes motion carries all right do you have everything on Casablanca yet yeah again there is anybody missing block party um Okay so we've now we're going on to the discussion portion of this meeting um obviously everyone's welcome to stay and listen to what's going to happen but you don't have to if you don't want to so the first thing we have is 5A which is a design review case number 2499 of the project proposed residence being built at 1021 15th Avenue this good pull of the PowerPoint so this uh lot is likely to be addressed as 102 15th Avenue it's currently unaddressed it's this is case number 2499 a Meyer for George P trust staff is requesting a design review of a new residence constructed to the house medium standards of the pass gril overlay District which is being constructed as a Redevelopment of the subject property here the plans uh this is showing the layout a little bit difficult to make out of this uh resolution but the home is oriented toward the front it has a 10-ft front setback is required for the minimum setback in the passag grill overlay District again this is the house medium building type uh there's a 5- foot side setback it's a little hard to see from here but you may remember this lot was half of the lot um half of the parcel rather the Eastern portion of a lot that was split last year it previously cons contained a non-contributing fourplex um both lots have been cleared the Western lot I don't believe has been proposed for redevelopment at these plans have not been submitted so this is the Eastern lot buting the alleyway to the East 15th Avenue to the north and there's an Alleyway on the south as well um this is proposed for redevelopment here is the front of the structure the home is built relatively close close to the maximum height permitted for the district it's 28 ft to the midpoint of the roof uh because of the lower pitch of the roof it is about a foot and a half lower at the peak than it would be permitted under the code uh this is showing the side of the structure from the alleyway and the rear of the structure also from the alleyway uh this is set considerably uh further interior to the lot than would be required based on the Land Development code the applicant is proposing some Landscaping in a pool at the back of the lot staff's design consultant Tera saler did review the structure they found it to be compliant with the pass girl overlay design standards and suitable for the Coastal Design of the structure uh staff did review for the zoning setbacks the Landscaping the other elements of the project um particularly the Landscaping does seem to be well above what their code requires which is always welcome uh so we do not have any comments on this request the historic preservation board may make other recommendations to the applicant if you find that um they would support the design standards for the district or establish better compatibility with the neighborhood um in the past we have left it open whether the board would like us or like us to bring this item back or not I do believe we have the architect present if you have any questions for them okay I have some questions so if the architect wants to come forward I appreciate that and if you could just put your name for the record please yeah Nate Meyer okay hi Mr Myer okay here here's what I want to talk about whether it goes anywhere I don't know but first off I don't have any kind of issue with the design of the way that it looks you know that it's you know Coastal it's pretty beachy you know it may not look particularly historic but you know that's there's many homes and pass grill that are similar so it's it's nice the problem I have is we have the garage facing the street instead of facing the alleys it's on two alleys and most of Pastor Grill originally was intended the alleys were for people to put their garages in the backyards so you wouldn't have to look at cars in the in the driveway or garage doors and if you go if you look at pasir and if you look at all the the old homes especially the one south of eth nobody has a driveway in the front yard except for a couple homes that were recently built and that's one of my kind of pet peeves on the historic board and just so you know one of the proposed changes we had uh is to have it mandatory that if you're on an alley then you have to use the alley because that's what it's for okay uh but the hurricane came and those proposed changes got put in the background so we probably would have voted on them in the last month or two and I don't know how the Commissioners would ultimately ruled but it is true that Passa Grill it's one of the only areas in on St Pete Beach that actually has alleys and they working alleys and there's a lot of we had a whole big hassle still ongoing about garbage pick up in the alleys but for years that's where people put their garbage cans too which is nicer than putting out in the front yard and so on that block I just walked it today you have an EMP two empty lots one of which you're going to build on and then there's a newer home that does have a front-facing house with garages all I can say about that is that was done some years ago I'm sure before the board really at least from my point of view started trying to put the hammer down on using the alleys because when we use the alleys you make sure the city takes care of the alleys so people can put their cars back there and stuff and I think again if you go look at passor Grill especially the historic aspect of it you'll see that the backyards were used for that for garbage for you know garages you know and so it's visually it's much more appealing than looking at cement and and garage doors now some houses in pasc you just can't in fact do that because they don't have alleys you know some hes on pasc way you know that's the way it's just got to be the other thing and I I'm just pointing this out so you understand where I'm coming from is parking is at a premium and every time you put a curb cut in you take away a parking SE space however on 15th it only parks on one side of the street and if you look at pass gr you notice that pretty much I think it's at 10th maybe it is uh or no actually 8th everything's South E there's parking on both sides of the street when you get north of that in the second area kind of from 21st from 8th to 21st there's parking on one side of the street all right and so those people can't get a curb cut because they're on the north side of the street because there's cars parked there so they have to put their that they all their all their garages are in the backyard and if you look at that block you're at on the south side of the alley that you're on the North side on all those Southside houses have garages in the back and they're older houses too but part of that is because they can't get they can't there's parking right in front of their houses so in your situation on the south side of the street which you are on there's there isn't parking so people have been getting curb cuts and I don't know brand did they have to get a variance to get those curb Cuts they don't exist now because that that house that with that fourplex they replaced you know did not have front parking so the standard for now still allows for three curb cuts when they face two or more frontages they face three in this case um so they would be permitted to do that now under the proposed amended regulations it would reduce that but currently the standard in place and so understand right now what you're what I'm saying we just had proposed but I you know about about trying to make the alleys used and so and again I'm I don't know I'm just you know speaking from my thoughts but you know when you design this do you and this is could be any architect that comes with the same kind of thing do do you design it knowing that the alley can be used and in this case you have two alleys you could put parking off of and you know recognizing the in a historic district like we have most of the houses the old ones anyway the historic ones uh the garages face the back which is much more aesthetically PL in my opinion and goes with the neighborhood and I would say and I'm not to pile on but this this is being built under the overlay right yes so what advantages did this house get by choosing to build under the overlay which is which is historically based that's why overlay was created that would be the additional front yard encroachment given the existing layout of properties on the street um they might have been allowed a small encroachment but it would it would otherwise be 20 feet instead of 10 okay so my point is and I've had I've had this discussion with other builders before too is you're choosing to build this under the overlay which is based on the historic nature of pass a grill yet you build a house that ignores the historic nature of pass a grill you know and so and I don't know you know again I'm not I'm not trying to be personal about it I'm just making this comment sometimes the people that own that bought the property maybe they've never been to Pastor girl and doesn't know know what it looks like maybe the architect has never been down there and doesn't know maybe they don't even know it's a historic district you know but you've been here and you've heard some people that that love the area and want to keep it to look historic we're the historic preservation board and it you know sometimes you get homes that come in here and the people are right on they say we know we got to build this up in the air because of FEMA but we want to make it look historic and we want to fit in with the rest of the neighborhood and we applaud that but then we're sometimes in a rocking hard place where someone comes in and wants to build a house that you could build anywhere on the beach but why in historic district why you know why don't don't why aren't people trying to fit into that and maybe you've never had the discussion with your clients maybe they don't care maybe they don't know and you it hasn't been built yet and so you know I bring this up because again it I don't have any problem at all with the way the house looks and like if this was on passer girl away on the uh east side where there's no alley it's on the water you're you pretty much have to have your garage doors face the front so I would say nice place but you're in a situation where you have two alley fronts uh that and it would as sent we wouldn't have to have Curb cuts and I think aesthetically I mean in my opinion I would rather have my front yard have trees and plants instead of concrete and garage doors you know so I don't know if that's a situ I bring this up meaning that and I have no authority to tell you to do this or not do that but you know maybe that's a conversation you should have with your clients and see if this could be adapted in some fashion and changed I don't I don't know I don't know how much was put into it when you developed it and that's and that's part of the problem we have is when people buy properties and they hire on the beach on on in historic district and they hire an architect sometimes they don't even know what the area is like and I'm not saying that's in your case I'm just talking in general because we don't have the opportunity really to meet with people beforehand and say hey this is what's going on and is this something that interests you or not you know that you would like to make it more historic you hear some examples of and that's one of the proposed things we're going to do to change some of the rule rules is have a design guide book that shows the kind of houses that are familiar in the area uh and with that being said you you can all do whatever you want I mean you know so but I just I just point that out and uh and so that was a lot to listen to from me and I I apologize for that but I you understand my concerns and I wonder if that's a consideration that was even even made well it definitely was I mean I I agree that I would prefer to park off of the alley um it was something that we talked about you know initial conversation with the owner um I designed a house off 21st and we did park off the alley that was like the first move that I made um there's advant which house is that on 21st just one is the one that's being built right now yeah you're right across right yeah I love that house it's yeah it's it's the second one from the beach right yeah so that yeah so that's got parking off the valley that was um I didn't I remember when the design came in a couple years ago uh or so I don't know if you were there present for that but that's a really nice one yeah I was um so I mean these are really decisions the owners make I can make suggestions um so yeah I I just like I said we don't know what goes into the into the conversations and you know sometimes I think well maybe if I don't say anything you know maybe there's people out there that they go oh well we never really thought of that that's a good idea we would like to fit into the neighborhood more or whatever so you know you know unfortunately I guess because the gulf used to be everybody's swimming pool but now everybody wants a swimming pool so they don't want to put their garage in the backyard cuz they want a swimming pool or or limits the size they can have for their driveway and stuff and I I feel you know I understand that but then I also say well then don't build an historic district right you know build some place on on up the beach or whatever where that's that that's part for the course cuz I'm just concerned over time we just going to get more and more especially after the hurricane or people knock their house down we're going to do this that more and more we're going to have everybody's houses facing this the street and parking will be a bigger problem and you know all those stories you know so I noticed too on the design there is a third garage door and it's on the east alley side so is that is that also an overhead garage door or is that a French door or it yeah it would be an overhead garage door it's for a golf cart golf cart garage so two overhead doors on the on the Avenue side and a third on the east alley side right yeah okay well like I said if if I didn't say anything I would I would wish I had so I just wanted to bring that up and I don't if that makes a difference it has been built yet just throwing that out there yeah I get I would say um as far as the like the in the zoning code the design guidelines wouldn't don't really push someone to uh design a historic house it's more advantage of setbacks y um so no we I mean forcing people to park off the alley uh I don't think would be a bad thing right but well see so just so yeah yeah you know this is something that for years we've been trying to tweak some of this stuff up and you know the alley is part of it but but part of it too is you know the design itself you know and you we don't want to tell people color they can paint their house and stuff like that you know it's not a matter of that but yeah you know uh we you know you're familiar with past you building there you know there's some some homes down there that we call them I would call like a Jetson home it's like something very futuristic and it's like cool house but why is that in historic district you know and so so that makes you wonder do the owners really do they just want that house anyway or do they even know what they're getting into because in today's age you know people can buy stuff off the computer for that matter without even knowing what their neighborhoods are like yeah so anyway just mentioning that I don't know if that's something you can talk to people them about or or whatever but yeah that's a that's a complaint I guess I have and and I would say that you know if it hadn't been for the hurricane that probably would be in the code that says you'd have to use the the uh alleys okay Brandon this uh meets the imperious surface ratio with the three driveways and the covered Leni and the pool pavers and all that still enough percolation there it it does based on based on the plan submitted we'll do a more in-depth review at the building permit stage when that applications made this was just for really the design review but that'll be checked over okay okay anybody else have questions or anything you'd like to say I mean I I didn't I know it came off as a lecture but I I'm just trying to make the point out you know because I we don't have access to anybody until we get these things right now you know I mean no I uh I understand what you're saying yeah okay and those are concrete I see where it says concrete sidewalk are there any hex block sidewalks on that block I don't think there is are there I I don't think there's hex block and that is something that we do require for any new development that made into the resolution last year that if there are not hex block sidewalk it either needs to be um retained or if they're putting in concrete it'll need to be the stamped let me rephrase it I know there's not legitimate hex block there there might be the the stamped hex blocks what we are re but these new concrete sidewalks would have to be the stamped hex block look okay can we have that specified on the plan yes and it's it's part of the building permit issuance for any any new home it's pretty it's a pretty house thank you yeah I I it is and and uh I love the one you did on 21st so no nothing about your skills it's just you know I wanted to mention the alleys right okay thank you sir appreciate it now Brandon we we have nothing to vote on we're just talking about this is just for informational purposes right correct right but I don't see I guess sometimes we talk about coming back and talking about it again but I don't really see any purpose in this particular case unless some change but they would they would contact you obviously okay anybody else have any comments on the design review all right now we'll go to 5B which is the restoration of city-owned historic buildings and sites that's something from you Brandon I believe D I just have a quick update or quick presentation if we can get that pulled up on the city's historic stock so uh the city has four historic structures um that we are looking at um based on the damage that was sustained from the storms the first is the Don Vista Onan art center and me get this uh very minimal exterior damage to the structure we're looking at repair of gutters electrical equipment flooring structural components and on the outside of the structure we're looking at replacement of damag singles we're estimating a cost under $200,000 they are preliminary we're still assessing the damages but the outside of the building seems to have done very well of course this is currently the area being used this a temporary fire station um we're looking at options for that longer term but um this is you know I just wanted to give you an update on Don Vista we do not expect it to be substantially damaged we don't expect any issues in that regard uh the Warren Webster I'm I'm sorry go back what about the uh don Vista did you just say that or right was I you just talking about the Don Vista that was just the Don Vista yes you said you do not believe there was substantial damage no no I don't I don't we don't see at this time any reason to bring this back for a FEMA Varian or okay so what I was just reading here is about the property appraiser believe there was substantial sustain substantial damage so that's not accurate let me take a look here I'm sorry I mean I know the shuffle board buildings reive substantial damage since you can you can drive your car through it but uh sorry I I meant to say that it it would be eligible for a of it's it's on the local registry so it is eligible for that exception if needed this is the Don vist we're talking about the Don vist correct yes and what does it mean that it has to be relisted in order to be eligible it come off of our list for some reason it's still on the list any any structure designated prior to September 2005 despite the fact that those are some of the most historic structures in our city because they've been on this the registry the longest those were prior to the city becoming a certified local government and the powers to issue substantial Improvement waivers FEMA substantial damage variances that comes along with being a certified local government and it requires a structure to be redesignated you'll have at least one case next month that deals with that where they're on the registry but they need to be redesignated and actually I believe we've had a few structures that have gone through that in the past 34-hour one uh Casablanca I believe was on the registry back in the 1990s it had to be redesignated when they were looking for a substantial damage variance so can we put that on um first quarter one month in the first quarter next year to redesignate all of those properties that are from 2005 and before so that we don't have to do it Case by case as needed we can just kind of do it as in a group mhm have some cupcakes or something yeah and to do that do we is there a requirement that we contact the owners to have them say they still agree they're historic or because that's something we can it just seems to me like it's it's housekeeping you they were historic they should be historic but for these purposes but I don't want to get sideways with some sort of bureaucratic you know paperwork so uh I'll talk to the attorney's office and update the board now it's there are no greater restrict and relisting it's all benefits it's that substantial damage waiver so I I could guess but I I just want to make certain though yeah I mean it's just a time thing I mean because there are people uh let me think about a second well my neighbor is one of those people who's locally designated but it was in 1999 so here they are you know trying to get permits and stuff and they've got to redo it again you know which is you're already historic you know that's pretty frustrating I understand why because of the certified local government requirements and stuff but I've been telling some people like that that when they do their application they should just say previously you not go through all the details say see your own files already been uh historically registered so so the challenge signatures are on it and stuff and I think we can just go ahead and get them set but that's a great suggestion that Tia has if we if we can do it that way what do we have there's like 40 homes or something like that maybe not we have time that if we need to do a notice to all of those individual Property Owners we could do the notice in January and then do it in February or March as appropriate so the one limitation with that with that would just be the reporting requirement I don't believe prior to 2005 we had anything in the code that required us to follow the Secretary of the Interior standards I can look back to see if those reports still existed if they were relevant then they're probably still relevant now but we do need to prepare something right for the for the property so I and I understand I understand with us being in 2005 becoming a certified local government because that allows us to do stuff without having to go through the rest and there's an advantage of that but uh I can certainly feel the frustration of people who don't think their houses are more historic than the other houses and they have been you know so they only get older they don't get you younger okay so so back on these buildings here uh we're just talking about this not I know you said on the Shu board court you're seeking input from the board on salvaging historical items demolition permissions things of that is that something that we'll be talking about in the future we're not really going to be talking about that today are we I just wanted to get General guidance from the board and when I get to those condemned properties we can we can talk more about that um as far as the Don vist I I was a bit confusing what I said earlier just like the homeowners where the damage is primarily interior despite the fact that it would be substantial damage for a non-historic structure there would be a requirement to bring the building up to current code requirements which could in include um flood proving in this case um because of the extent of the exterior damage which is very minimal we're looking to restore the roof um they should not need to go for any kind of FEMA variant they wouldn't be subject to any kind of flood proving requirement because of that local listing but on on the shuffle board building that would be if we wanted to return it to its former glory that certainly would would require a variance right correct and and speaking with the city staff let me is that next let's just cover Warren Webster very minimal exterior damage um replacement of cap shingles this should not be substantial damage um whether or not it's a historic building or not this shouldn't be an issue um about $22,000 in damage will be restoring the roof and um some some minor interior renovation well let me ask you this in this particular case because I think that's always an option people have even if they have a historic home whether it's been registered or designated historic or not if they have a 50-year old house or more if they can do if they they can fix up their problems for less than 50% that may be a way they want to go as opposed to going through the historic Route mhm and it's probably quicker to do it that way I would think than going through these process so Warren Webster for example we do not have it historically designated yet that correct it is historically designated we did it in the floods last year or something when prior to 2005 no no more recently when the new floors came up yeah but but anyway so right so they can just do that they can just fix that one up okay so now what else we talk I was going to go yeah shuffle board so we have the shuffle board Accord um and speaking with the city's parks department um I don't know that there are options to restore the structure we are looking at demolition um which we estimate at about $45,000 again these costs are still preliminary um in terms of reconstruction I've been speaking with Lynn um so it's you know we talk a lot about restoration we talk a lot about new construction but one thing that we don't cover as often because thankfully we we haven't had the need for this is the ability to retain a historic structure through reconstruction which would be completely new material um it would keep the look the feel of the previous building that is something that in some cases can fall under the national register so it's something we're just exploring at this point um we have received survey grants the last couple years through the state um those are up to $50,000 are the small matching grants and they tend to be a little bit easier to achieve but there are also larger grants up to $500,000 that we can look into applying for we do need to speak with the state whether this type of reconstruction would be permitted but this would create a building that looks similar um you know still serves the same function it's still contextual with the rest of the site because this is one of our historic sites however it would be compliant with the current flood codes it would be flood proofed I would use that flood resistant material possibly have Vents and um it's something that we could you know the public could enjoy out into the future um without having this this risk that the current structure and just make go ahead Hol I apologize oh sorry I had a question are any of these costs covered by City Insurance we I I don't know at this time um I'll I'll have to look into that I was going to say now and just so we're clear be for people out there the shule board court or building can be FEMA compliant without having to go up in the air because it's a commercial non-residential structure so it's we can still do do this same building and but you I I love what you're talking about seeing if we can do a historic reconstruction one of the thoughts I was having is if you look at the pictures there uh that upper right picture where it's got the like the Y the green y beam there that would imply to me that was open air at one point right and so and and I think the shuffle board court is mainly disused for storage of things I don't I know I don't know if they do anything else in there or not besides get out of the rain I'd like to think they were you know having high stakes poker or something in there didn't have a whole lot of they are improvements as far as kitchens and bathrooms and things in there well going to say short term I wonder if we could make it open air again with with the exception of the bathrooms that probably could be fixed up quicker than and just a thought especially if we think we can maybe get grants to redo the whole thing at one point because uh we can it's a neat building you know are there any historical photographs of sure when it was built and what it looked like can I say something with respect to the shule board club like the Mary Pier it's it was more than a building it's a historic site and the site includes the shuffleboard courts themselves so it's not I mean the building may be really in really awful shape I've seen it um it's still a historic site so that may give us a little more a little more juice there a little juice yeah to to look at rebuilding that building and not necessarily having it replicated right but being of a similar style or not but just you know the fact that the shovelboard club and courts you know was it does include those shule board courts so can I can I has what is this before the storm what was the interior of the building used for I think they well they I know that they had memorabilia in there um they had they may have just used it for recordkeeping I I really don't know I'm tables and chairs and stuff I mean you you could it was maybe some small meetings um I belong to the St Petersburg shuffle board club and but we but there are many buildings several buildings there and one is large enough to host big parties and you know the shule board Club may want to maybe even do a little expanding I don't know but yeah I don't I I don't know the shelard club I think is pretty much operated by snowbirds I think which is okay I'm just saying you know um I don't know if they're even well I don't know their connections to the property you know if they're property owners in St P Beach Etc that kind kind of thing I don't if that makes a difference but and do anybody know what they're doing with their storage their stuff now if they're even they collected their stuff and moved it to the uh the current president's home and they is resident okay good thanks Sean and I know the veterans association pretty involved as well with the shuffle board courts and so maybe they would have pictures of what it's always look like I mean personally speaking I would be in favor of it going back looking exactly the way that it was just KN Augie Dees and all these other people that were lifelong residents that loved going there and spent so many hours I think it would be worth it to honor them and the structure to have it look identical but obviously hopefully flood proof MH was it Cypress or Cedar walls inside I don't I don't remember we could I could pull the old case File cuz if you recall a little while back uh I think maybe three years ago the T war club was approved to do a certificate of appropriateness to renovate the club inside because of its deterioration I know that they were going to redo the um I think they were do redoing the walls they were redoing some of the exterior and they were certainly certainly going to be redoing the bathroom facility does anyone know whether they ever actually did that I believe they did the windows were in really bad shape those have been improved and fixed over the last two years maybe three uh our family has uh supported the shuffle board for a little over 66 years now so we are involved every march with them for a tournament and Etc so and officers of the St Pete shuffleboard Club had asked me you know if if I could at some point if we got in maybe got in contact with the local shovelboard Club here in St Pete Beach if they needed any help from them either storage of stuff or I don't know what they were talking about but um you know maybe something like that could be broed the Chairman's come by uh my office a couple times since the storms so next time I see him I will go ahead and let him know or we'll try and get him in touch with you that would be great no problem and then we didn't really talk about the Mary Pier what's what's the status on that or what are we sure so the Mary Pier building specifically um has also been condemned ES cost the same as the shuffle board court building at $45,000 estimated cost of reconstruction again is is unknown we are still assessing damages and costs um at this time um interesting the Mary Pi sorry that should have been me r y no better um the building is um itself not a historic resource is is probably not surprising the you know docs tend not to be um they're more historic sites in the context of use and um you know long-term long-term sustaining of the facilities that a site offers instead of the actual physical construction so just want to know a little bit less about um I just do know that the building has been condemned I think we're exploring options and this is probably something we'll bring back with more detail in the future I i' really wanted to get your input on the shuffle board court building at this time we ever get that sign put up there one might put up I don't know asking um survive the storm one of the things on so the city owns the Mary Pier building is that correct yes yes even though they privately lease it out for people to run and stuff it seems that if there is if we can get any you know uh leeway with these grants you're talking about I mean there's lots of pictures of the Mary Pier over the years and how it's looked and that kind of thing and that would be because on 8th Avenue that would be a a little gem if we could do some sort of reconstruction scenario uh so I just suggest that as we look into that that would even that that's more of a focal point even than the the shuffle board court so or Shu board building interesting okay all right so we'll we'll hear later from you when we get more information at Future meetings about these items all right so now we're at uh 56 which was a discussion about the substantial damage letters and I'll ask you to talk about it because you know can you describe what they are what the city's doing or or who who's behind doing these things and and what the procedures for how I I know I think that a lot have not been mailed out and it's just an ongoing process so if you could tell us a bit about that please sure so uh the city is in an ongoing process to send out both substantial damage and non-substantial damage letters to homeowners everyone will eventually get one for their structure um I let me stop let me say everyone every residents in the city of St Pete Beach will get a letter correct at some point yes we got ours okay 3% um so you will get a letter one way or another it'll indicate either substantial or non-substantial damage there will be a percentage given for for both letters um so if you're substantially damaged you could be at 51% estimated uh you could be at 90% it really comes down to um the assessment that was performed the city is not performing the assessments and I believe the assessments have wrapped up uh that was performed by the county we're receiving data from them we're verifying the data after it's been verified we're sending out those letters now as was mentioned earlier and this is a common appeal um request in most cases unless the property owner was present and they allowed um the reviewer into the structure they did not look inside so if there were wood floors wood walls tile floors those were not necessarily accounted for things that you can just dry them out you know you can you can continue to use them um that wasn't accounted for it typically looked at a worst case or one of the worst case scenarios that could have occurred so in situations where you have wood flooring and it's been dried out um Wood Walls you don't have drywall you don't have insulation to replace you can just submit photos um that alone may be enough what is especially helpful um is to have a contractor if they provided an estimate for the full scope of repairs that are needed to restore your structure that can be included as part of your appeal uh FEMA packet is always sorry substantial Improvement substantial damage packet is always helpful um just any support that you can provide to show that your structure may not have been historic U sorry substantially damaged um is valuable for us to make that assessment we're receiving the data from the county they've performed the work we're providing the re reevaluation okay and so is it clear in the letters that are being sent out what the appeal process is yes and again we've some of the earlier letters sent out may not have had the refinement of the most recent letters but we have lined out exactly um the options for appeal we have recently added that sixth item for those structures that are historic they have options that may not be available to non-historic structures and we just ask that you get in contact with zoning staff I know I've sent out um information to anybody who has applied for designation at this point but like you mentioned those structures that have been on the registry for some time they may not be aware of their options to them so they they have those available okay and so and so if anybody's listening to this anybody out there at one point if you had a an old house even if it's on the historical register you might get one of these letters that says you're substantially damaged and your options are to tear it down or raise it you know and there's and there there was no mention of the historic aspect of it but that's been changed now so I just say that because some people are like how I got a historic house and they're telling me I got to raise it and that's not the case so if when and if you get those and we don't even know the time frame when all these letters will go out right no prioritize certain ones and not really or neighborhoods or it's it's as data becomes available we don't have any timeline for specific neighborhoods we've received bulks from different streets but others have been skipped over we just don't have any right and just as an example our question so I have a neighbor that they had no water intrusion but they received a letter saying that they had 19.7% damage so then for them to come back to the city they would just need to take photos and the minumum or well the the 19.7 that sounds like it would be a non-substantial damage so they don't need to do anything with that if it's under that if it should now say in the title whether it's substantial damage or non-substantial damage and if they received a non-substantial damage no action needs to be taken but with that then so going forward like let's just say that they wanted to do a project on their home the 50% role at that point would come into effect or would it not so it would come into effect if repair permits and voluntary Improvement permits were open at the same time we do need to calculate those together but if they had minimal damage they receive a you know a drywall permit and they close that out and then they move forward for improvements they would not have the repairs count against them for the improvements yeah and so and there was a 30% of magic number two isn't it and I for you explained to me before but I'd like to have you mention that again so if it's under 30% if the estimated damage is under 30% you will not need to apply with a substantial damage and Improvement packet when you make application for your building permits for repairs so you would not need to include that I should also say that applies to anyone who is applying for a exception through their historic designation status now it was brought up earlier at the meeting and I'm I'm glad that was mentioned there's a possibility that receiving that waiter or receiving a variance could affect your flood insurance that's out line in the code of federal regulations may not be the case here this is more for lower lying structures but it can be as much as 25% on the dollar um so it is something to take into account if you received less than substantial damage you may want to still fill out that substantial damage and Improvement packet just to demonstrate that you were not taking advantage of that incentive of local listing but if you do not want to fill out a substantial damage packet if your work is entirely interior and you're looking to make repairs if your structure is on the local registry it was designated by the city after September 2005 we have confirmed we do have Florida Master site files which is the other half of the the uh designation for for all of those structures you are eligible to just apply for the permits and you won't be um limited by not having that packet so this might be splitting hairs but is it 30% or more you have to submit or is it 31% or more you have to submit the substantial package I believe it's 30% or more okay so 29% and lower you're okay without that and that's typically called the FEMA packet right correct it's it's historic we we have to call it the substantial damage packet now but it's it's and if you're if you're between 30 and 50 how does that affect what's the the Practical procedures for that we still require a substantial damage packet um despite even if you received a letter saying that your home is not substantially damaged if it indicates you're over 30% we will need that packet filled out um you will not be subject to the substantial damage regulation unless you come in and say well I've taken more damage than what you indicated but you would be um you would need to fill out the packet for the permit and I'm actually there's a question go ahead I I think we that to ask question yeah why not okay here sure state your name again too so a couple things and this I think it pertains to everyone in this room since we're all historic on the historic say your name again just really quick Armstrong Yellow House 32 and Casablanca everyone here um so now that we have the historical designation and I think a lot of us you know had our packet put in our FEMA packet or whatever to do the repairs and we're under the 50% Mark yes the options are we can continue and wait to get permits based upon that and not get the 50/50 waiver correct get the 50/50 waiver but we may have insurance applications down the road take that risk correct and then if you're under 30% is it 30% % of the 50% or is it 30% of your structural value of the of the structure's value okay so then that's a better number so then if you're within all of these parameters and we're all historically designated is there a faster way to get a permit like do we come in tomorrow and say hey can does the permit get approved no and what I will say it it's not going to expedite the permitting process but I will say that most of the Hang-Ups have been on filling out the substantial damage packet there's been information missing or undervalued or whatever it might be but it won't move you ahead in the queue it'll just when you get to that step that's one fewer thing that the reviewer will be looking at so presuming all of that's in and say we go tomorrow and say you know what I'm going to do the 50/50 waiver and I'm just going to go with historical I want my regular permits all of my permitting information in everything that needs to be done is interior now then I can just get a permit no so it's it's not going to it's not going to expedite the actual permitting process it's still the same queue everybody's in the same queue what what it'll do is if you get to that point if you're not if if you're on the local historic registry which your home now is um you would have the option to apply for that exception so in and again it could have insurance applications once you take advantage of that exception your home needs to remain on the registry for the life so if that's not something you want to take on you you can wait for the packet review but otherwise yes that that's an it would it would be one fewer thing that the reviewer needs to look at and just to clarify just to make it clear say let's just give a number the number of this the structural value is is $160,000 the 50% is $84,000 the 30% you're talking about is on the 84,000 or the 160,000 160 perfect okay so that that's actually a bigger number for people that have to work with so then a lot of people could fall under that amount correct and that's that's hiso sorry okay do it that's historic and non-historic so if you receive a letter if it indicates you're under it's that's 30% of the structures value that Citywide um if it indicates that you do not need to fill out a substantial damage packet when you make application for permits for repairs it will be required if you were to look to make a voluntary Improvement in the future but only for the repairs only we do not need that sure we are gonna have a test on this in about 10 minutes so and then there's only one person that's gonna get an A uh once again rust a um owner of 20806 pass away so just a clarifying question Brandon very helpful information you you just provided what about homeowners who have received an early version of the substantial damage letter uh prior to any percentages being identified Etc uh but did not have that historical designation before today so for example anyone that was approved in this uh in this board meeting today now designated historic but had received a letter prior to today's date does that have any bearing on the ability to forego the FEMA package or whatever we're calling it now application process now what what well there's no requirement that you did it before the storm or after the storm okay so you're locally designated you can take you can take the steps now even though the storm was three months ago it doesn't make a difference so you have the options to do not don't know what your house problem is you know what the damage is if it's under 50 under 30% then you don't have to take the next step of getting a variant a FEMA variance as a historic structure you follow what I'm saying if your house was really messed up and you can't fix it under the 50% or 30% and it's historic then that's if you aren't going to tear it down that's when you would try to get a FEMA variant because your historic house all of our damage is on the inside so if the damage is on the inside then you're in a pretty good place my understanding then we can go through the second track where if it's all inside we don't have to fill out a packet or that that's correct that's a that's a benefit of local listing as a on the historic registry now there are the the two things to keep in mind that um you you would be on the historic registry for your the lifetime of your structure and any improvements moving forward to the outside you can make minor repairs the inside is not something that we look at here but if you're looking to add on to the structure if you're looking to change the facade anything like that it does need to come before this board it's through the certificate closure in the waiver that we already provided so if you're if you're just trying to put your house back the way it was before the storm correct you you know if you're under if your damage is very minor then you don't even have to go you it's nice to be historic because then you're always historic and you don't have to take that step again somewhere down the line okay uh well well in sorry to interrupt it but in our particular situation um what's unfortunate is that the value that they have on the structure is quite low so the letter that we have already received we were an early recipient from what I understand right it it said that we were substantially damaged we've gone through the process of having an an independent appraisal which may or may not change that determination the question that I have is is much more narrow which is is there any impact on our ability to forego the FEMA packet submission because we received a letter before designation for our property was granted on today's date and you're saying no oh that's what may Brandon answer but I don't believe so I think the Letter's a formality really and it's not necessarily proof of anything it's more of a notice I would say you know and there may be benefits to going through the appeal um based on the appraisal that you receive if you do find that you're under 50% there may be Insurance implications I'm not sure off hand but no it it it's not based on the date that we send the letter because some may not get their letter for some time and it's okay we've had dozens of structures designated as locally as historic after the storm that's the event um so it's not going to impact when you receive the letter okay all right thank you for the clarification okay anything else okay thank you that was clear um no it's complicated obviously but I mean you've got it figured out no but there's a lot of options and and and I say to people you know there's no reason if you got an old house there's there's no there no skin off your nose to get it historically designated I mean there's no downside to that you know it's just you might be eligible for a plaque we're we're trying to put that back into effect but uh you don't have to go that route to fix your house up depending on the damage to your house you know so it's kind of like your choice and as Brandon has said the one thing is if you do choose to get the FEMA variance to fix your house up and that would not be doing interior fixing up correct right so if you did had a really you know if you look like the shuffle board court or uh club and you want your house did and you want to get fixed up well then you're forever categorized as a historic structure that has had a FEMA variance okay which means if you sell that it that attaches to it but on the one hand any you can always demolish a house any new buyer can demolish a house and if you're selling a if you're selling a historic house that's been added to and kept to be historic then I imagine your buyer likes historic houses and if he doesn't he can knock it down so I don't know if there's a practical issue other than there could be flood insurance issues we don't know what the are you'd have to really talk to your insurance agent about that that make any sense I don't know but uh nothing easy we need to do if all of our paperwork and permitting is in and our packets done for this door destination we just sort of let everything just keep moving along correct staff will annotate your property file and it will be indicated that you have a historic structure so we'll add that in if it turns out that you the scope of work exceeds that 50% subst potential Improvement value which in your case it does not um for anyone else who who's impacted by that they would have that option for the um the waiver of the packet thank you thank you foring insurance insurance thing could come if you are outside structures it sounds like this when does the insurance pop itself up so there's been a lot of discussion about this recently the National Park Service actually just very recently had a webinar on on some of the insurance concerns that have come up with historic structures now those tend to be National register structures structures like the dawn Cesar um other structures that may be difficult and very expensive to restore the exterior the materials either don't exist or they require um you know very difficult artisanal work um I don't know that it applies to structures on the local registry it's always best to to reach out to your insurance agent on that because it's it's be Case by case and there's nothing that goes on the public record right now that says your address has local historic designation so it I mean people can look it up on the city website and see if you're on the list but as far as going on penel County Property Appraisers website you're not designated or identified as a historic structure or historic site at all at this point I don't know that that will change I don't correct so what what designates on on the Property Appraiser's website what causes that historic designation to pop up is those properties that are receiving an adalum exemption I believe we only have one in the city currently um that's an option to homeowners in the future it's not really relevant now with restoration being the focus but for those who choose to renovate in the future um they are eligible for that ad of alarm exemption if they choose to do so when they make application so that's don't worry about it that that's that's another wrinkle that kind of applies it really applies to people who are who are adding on significantly to their homes which I don't think after the storm people were probably just fixing their homes up you comfortable us well yeah I mean probably the attorney might say I shouldn't be but I I think we're okay just a question then on the if you need to then go beyond the 50% what I'm hearing new which I didn't interpret in your email was that if you have to go beyond your 50% you do have another step to get a waiter yeah go ahead only only if you are altering the exterior appearance of the structure no interior work that's Beyond 50% you do not correct so there's there's a few options of course if if you're performing work that's less than 50% of the depreciative value of the structure you could show through your substantial damage packet that you know the work is under that if you're over that we'll be adding into your property file that you have been designated as a historic structure so you can request I mean that that exception will be given to you in the issuance of the permit you don't want correct you you you'll receive an exception through the issuance of the permit there's no additional step piece what you're saying they don't have to come back in front of us right correct not not for interior see normally if you're going to add on to your house like if there wasn't a hurricane and you bought an old small house and you decided to make it a medium-sized small H old house so you do an addition that fits in with the old look of a house you'd have to come you have first you'd have to come through in front of us and get locally historically designated and then second you'd have to come in to get a variance to do the building on the house and that's the one that attaches for their on so thank you my name is Dave Green 348 East I'm sorry your name Denise Anderson hi Denise did you bring up the city council meeting that it may depend on when you became historical whether or not you have to do the theme of ping do some of these are not exempt from s is so that's that we talked about that earlier if your structure was designated prior to September 2005 that those are the ones so anybody in this meeting that it's not relevant to them um we do have structures that just based on how the state regulations relate to cert a certified local government has to designate you when we were not that status prior to September 2005 so much for clarifying so much at this meeting sure I I've got to tell you I was at my home each time the um I don't know what you call it the the people from tidle came out title Bas title Bas the first time this couple from Texas showed up and they kind of beat up looking car like they were on vacation I kid you not it was a man and wife they said they were married they wanted to come Florida they're making their 34 40 bucks an hour they've got their iPad they're going home to home are you guys Engineers no we're not Engineers okay so then another couple no there was two guys that came out from Tampa they were subcontractors of the subcontractors because out B became so busy you guys Engineers we're not Engineers you guys want to come in the house we can't come in the house the third time you guys came from Fort Myers not Engineers had a little piece of cardboard with some numbers in there can you guys come in the house nobody's been in the house yet we can't open up your file let me look no we can't come in the house I'm just saying you know if they're going around judging whether people have to tear down their houses raise their houses that's a that seems like a much more somebody that have to be a lot more qualified to make that decision well you're right but that's the nature of the emergency we've got but but also recognize the letters are just notices there's an appeal process that you know they're telling you this is what we think right now and it might be honorous to you but you you can say no you're wrong and they'll say okay we are we never went in the house so it's a it's a it's a bad process but at the moment it's the only I'm not defending it I'm just saying at the moment it's really the only one we have and so and also for the most part those people who are coming out their data collectors they're not the decision makers so they're collecting data taking pictures and measurements but they're not the ones making the decision and the determination as to whether or not you're over or under 50% or 30% the county gave me $29,000 it's like they throw a dart and pick out a certain amount neighborhood so I have another home down the street the same age Bill 20 maybe more sareet they gave me 49,000 to fix that one I don't know where they come up with the numbers so I got my private appraiser you probably know and so now I have a much larger figure to to work with of course so I'm at like 17% at 1 hour 17.7% of the other but I am concerned I get that letter you know what that next step is and it's all interior drywall cabry yeah right so that that appraisal uh sorry the uh determination letter does go into detail on some of the options for submitting an appeal um submitting a private appraisal that has been performed for FEMA depreciated value purposes that's that's one of them um having a contractor provide an assessment of the required work um even photos like I mentioned before photos can suffice in some cases which are all in the appraisals correct correct so you were um I'm not sure that the letter always indicated this but you can reach out to our department um on your in the city's permitting portal you can find your letter and you can upload your documents to that case and that'll be reviewed as part of the appeal we really appreciate everything all of you that what you're working on here to try to preserve our neighborhoods and stuff that you answer emails like fast I don't know when you're sleeping never yeah never [Laughter] 2027 thank you so much for you're welcome transparency okay good thank you okay five D our last thing is small Wireless facilities that you're going to amaze us with whatever that means I know about Amaze um if we could get the PowerPoint pulled up please so this was emailed to the board I believe a month or two ago this was right after the storm these requests came in right before the storm so the advanc wireless facilities uh sorry infrastructure deployment Act of 2017 which was amended in 2019 preempts local governments on most aspects of small Wireless facility design and replace and placement uh the Act was passed in 2017 uh it actually got stricter in 2019 there were some additional um Provisions for local governments that were taken out of the statute um there are some exceptions so the city can require that when polls that are being replaced or poles that are being newly placed to support wireless facility equipment which we we have the small Wireless facility equipment here in St PV uh by and large I'll show you some photos of that in a moment uh we can require that the poles be of similar design material and color to others in the area the equipment itself must meet the color camouflage and concealment requirements and the poles may not exceed the height of the closest pole within 500 ft if there is no pole within 500 feet they can't exceed 50 feet so um we have gotten some requests down in passer gril um I believe we previously received one that was under Verizon permit this is maybe five years ago it was further north um closer to the Don CeSar neighborhood um but all of these requests are something that fall under our review perview which is they are all requesting taller poles um to be reinstalled in the exact same location as the existing so you see of course the current view on the left side of the screen the right side shows the taller pole it's an additional 7 feet uh they are going to retain the same light with the scon it looks like the color on the equipment and the antenna is going to be different but it is going to be colored to match the the lighting scon uh they have the exterior radio equipment box the antenna at the top they meet the requirements to be considered small wireless equipment um which effectively limits the city's ability to um apply a higher tier of standard to these type of of uh installations and I'll show you other other installations that are proposed that are um similar in design so before can you is there a definition of small Wireless facility is that defined I'm doing this for memory but um I believe it's the radio box is 28 cubic feet and the antenna is 6 cubic feet or less if I remember right that that is a standard for small wireless equipment and and and I know you're going to tell us but how many how prevalent are these how many like in pass and girl how many were we talking about we we received six I I don't know if we'll be getting more um I don't know what the radius of these things are I mean are they they cover a couple blocks oh um that works kind of based on what we've seen in other areas of the city they're usually I believe they're about placed every five blocks now that's just based on the local streets um the fdot doesn't typically run their permits by us we've received a few um but those are based on our local installations local Street installations okay thank you so this is the southwest corner of uh Hurley Park this is five feet taller they're replacing the pole again the equipment looks like it's a lighter gray but they have noted on the plans that they're going to be um it's going to be shaded to match the um the lighting scon out of curiosity so the light would then be obviously higher as well is that correct um I believe for this one the lights at the same location I it's going to be at the same height don't start bringing the turtles up yeah the lights can't move no they aren't talking about raising the lights they're just adding on top of no it's just the it's it's a replacement pole in the same location um it's going in in all of these cases they will be taller so the boxes or you know where it says radio and antenna those light gray objects will match the black light or the gray P so um I had requested the black light just to blend in with the equipment we do have the ability to ask them for different for color changes but there's there's another question I wanted to ask the board just as after we go through this related more to the pole height given that something that is in our limited perio uh here is 109 Second Avenue uh this is the tallest of the four that they're looking to install this will be an additional 12 ft um it will be wood um the antenna again will be painted brown which is the closest color they have to match the pole itself um there is no you know lightting scon that that is of a significant different color again all of these fall under the small Wireless facility equipment standards they have the power panel in the meter socket down at the ground level the radio in a box vaed a little bit higher and then the antenna at the top and that that previous pole listing is that light fixture scheduled to be replaced at some time with the historic lights or on the Avenues no just on I haven't heard about the Avenues now and this is in front of the fire station um which of course is currently closed this is an additional 5 ft now during the first round of reviews we had asked that they relocate this installation um we of course have uh the fire station we're looking to redevelop we're concerned about the location of this pole relative to a balcony and walk up that's prop um projecting off the front of the structure of course this is on the other side of the sidewalk but um sharing this with our Architects and designers they did have some concerns about this pole location problem is once these go up um it is the city's responsibility in most cases to relocate them and um there are cases where the city can require undergrounding um and require the removal of these um installations but it's a fairly arduous process so it would be something down the road um that needs to be dealt with so um I wanted to bring this to you because I had sent them out after the store um at the time I didn't think there was really anything that could be done um given that there is very little that the city can do about these installations however all of these poles are um proposed to be taller than the existing pole um So based on that we can deny the additional height um we cannot deny the extension of antenna above the pole height as long as the antenna is No taller than 10 feet I believe these antennas are about 3 to 4 feet in height um I would be concerned about a taller antenna being used if the pole is dropped by a few feet and then the antenna's raised up to effectively be the same pole height but this is something that we can look into because the pole Heights are taller than the poles that they're replacing um another concern is sorry other concern is that the city cannot prohibit placement of a new additional poll if required to support the facilities so there is a possibility and again we haven't explored these at all with the um AT&T who is the applicant singular on behalf of AT&T placement of a new additional poll so if they were to come in with a poll of the same height they were looking to place it in a different location in the right of way in most cases long as long as it doesn't conflict with traffic equipment as long as it doesn't cause a sight line issue um we would not be able to prohibit that placement and again we are attempting to have the equipment adjacent to the fire station relocated to not conflict with the new developments balcony so what we're seeking guidance on um is the pole height that's proposed it's unlikely that we will be able to bring this uh request back we have very limited time frames for review um and again as as member Hawkins Smith mentioned do you have any concerns with the colors uh the pole colors will be the same as the existing we requested similar shade gray and brown for the equipment given the limitations on the colors but we could have it match the pole instead of the um the existing lighting scon um when it's a light pole staff requested the equipment to match the light gon are there some that are not light poles uh specifically for this element we asked for the brown to match the poles no no no what I'm saying is are they talking about putting antennas that aren't associated with a existing light pole I mean these all the examples there's a light on these poles correct these are all replacement poles um they're still considered a utility that would allow for us to request a a shorter height to the pole but that could have repercussions depending on um you know the height or the location of the pole that they need to place in order to support their their facilities I think there was a question from the audience about do we need these this and I just want to clarify this is not something that's a city initiative the city's not saying we want to add these antennas these individual Wireless carriers are bringing them in and we have to allow it correct they they are applying for right of way permit this is um these are the telecoms making application and in these cases they are going on Duke replacement polls in the past especially toward the northern side of the city we've seen own poles so the act the utility actually installs a pole in the right of way that's not associated with uh with with duke or an existing utility pole ultimately these these cannot be denied in certain areas of the city there was an exception process the city did not qualify for that um so these will likely be going up it really just relates to the pole height and the color those are things that we have control over well I don't know the details I I think we we can talk about I would think we would all think that we'd like the pole the you know the stuff they add to the pole to be the same color and as the pole or as the light well the wherever it's going to blend in more right you well in the other examples where the whole the whole pole is black and the light is black obviously that should all be black in this situation I think the pic we're looking at now I think it should match the pole the pole I agree so in all cases it would match the pole well no it might be black or it might be gray brown yeah Sean good job so uh and I I did want to note I did look up the definition of a small Wireless facility um for you and so that's equipment that's no more than 6 cubic feet um and then all of the equipment cumulatively so there's the box that's the 6 cubic feet and then all the other equipment um no more than 28 cubic feet in volume and so that's the statutory definition of small Wireless facility 28 cubic feets a lot of real estate yeah but it's broken up into so many pieces I guess but so then Brandon how how much these examples we're looking at can we say we want them shorter than that we can ask um technically they have resubmitted the original submitt did not include that the 500 uh foot radius the GRE submitt did show that all the poles and we do have two further north in District 3 um they are all taller than the existing poles so we can ask them to lower them to the height of the existing pole again we we cannot limit the height of the antenna so it more than to to less than 10 fet but we could ask that the height of the pole be lowered I don't know what the impact of that would be they might request that um you know pole be placed in a different location um instead of a replacement I just don't know what the impact will be and I unfortunately I won't have time to bring this back to the Bo and and these pictures here that we don't have a picture of just the antenna right an example where no I let me see if I can get that pulled well I mean I I just think in general we would probably say we'd like him as low as possible if we can you know whatever they're going to let us do you know just which is consistent with us wanting everything fairly low anyway I don't think I'm pass gr we don't have any of the little push button crosswalks on passag grow right now do we if I mean if this yeah we do do where is that right actually it's not it's a oh it's by V right well no there's not one at V but there's one up at yeah but I think that's like a 33rd I think that's north of our area does 22nd have a a push I just never it does yeah right with the yacht club you're right yep I just make a run for it hope yeah can we put a cat that the equipment doesn't interfere um or become confusing to that crosswalk equipment um and that is that is one of the items that statutorily we can um you know if it were to be near the crosswalk we could limit them or require them to place it somewhere else and I know there's one up by aa's Emporium as well and then by the Sunan Art Center I hit those buttons yeah but those are technically outside historic district so well what do the Ospreys think about it because they're the ones that be build a nest on them probably so hopefully they've got good balance Y no uh I I know we you can't come back to us I just think the general consensus would be as as low we can get them and match them and color as much as we can okay yeah okay okay all right thank you anything else oh um good news I promise this won't take long okay can we get the overhead it's just a public service announcement basically the city and state have fully executed the Corey Avenue area historic survey Grant and that means the survey will shortly commence and I was just going to show you the mapping area for the public but it's not coming up that's great there it is so that's the area and if I have some maps if you all I know that I gave them to you before but if you'd like another one I'd be glad to give them to you sure thank you this is incredible thank you thank you very good thank you all right anything else thank you e e e e for