##VIDEO ID:qk2pW2AoRGQ## e e e e e e e e e e 2024 meeting of the planning board to order if everyone will stand and uh say the Pledge of Allegiance with me pledge of to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay can we do a roll call please member Perry here Vice chair Angelus here member Groot here chair hubard here we have a quorum thank you and we will move on to approval of the agenda do we have any changes I'd like to um add a discussion topic if we could I'd like to introduce a um discussion on um comparison of ordinances on a synthetic turfs okay so we'll make that 5B okay any other changes okay um we will move on to audience comments we just need a motion and a second to oh I'm sorry do I have a motion for adding 5B ordinance I motion that we add 5B ordinance a discussion there a second a second roll member grott member Perry yes Vice chair Angelus yes chair hubard yes carries thank you and now I will move on to audience comment M if we have any John kurman thank you and you could zoom into to the actual screen please um there's been a lot of talk about what to do you know now that we've had a big incident and there's just a couple things that have been concern me um uh I I have I've got damage in my own home not caused by the hurricane or the flood really but it just um makes it particularly interesting for me and uh I've I've been speaking about these topics before anyway uh one of the things that when I when you consider what to do you start of course with what the current laws are and one of the things I see in the 2021 ordinance is with the 50% rule it says um that when you look at substantial Improvement and substantial damage um that substantial damage does not however include any uh anything that's required to correct existing Health sanitary or safety code violations identify the building official uh necessary assur safety uh safe living conditions um so one might believe that if um the damage is due to uh hurricane or surge that perhaps the damage that now is being repaired due to the the building officials saying hey you need a roof on your house hey you need to fix your mold conditions that that may not be considered uh towards a 50% rule which might be interesting as people say hey we need to roll back or we need to look back well maybe those things aren't going to be covered based on the ordinance that went into effect in 2021 um the next thing is when you look at um the homes you know the pre-firm homes that follow the 50% rule you know if you have homes that have one house invested a lot in their home and have made it more resilient and have done a lot over the last few years and another home did not just ask yourself today so you're now going to make it the home that invested a lot you're going to say no you you're the one that has to stop and raise your home right now and the guy that didn't invest anything in their home to make it more resilient that's the one you're going to say oh well now you can spend up to 50% of your home before you have to raise it sounds a little backwards about than what you'd want at this point I understand looking back you might have wanted to do something different but where we are today you might be getting the opposite of what we really want from our city uh to move forward um also back when in December when we had the other uh ordinance we were looking at you know if you look at the discounts to we're a class six um in in our or in our FEMA rules and even if we went to a class 10 we'd only lose 20% discount and if you watch the Cape Coral video which I did they kept talking about oh my God we might have a $50 uh you know fine per year per home we have 2,000 homes $50 time 2,000 homes is $100,000 are we going to you know force people not to be able to live in their homes for $100,000 across our whole city or could we maybe somehow spend that $100,000 worst case I mean I know we need to make sure that we don't lose our ability to have more mortgages but maybe we can figure out a way to keep FEMA happy enough but you know let people not lose their ability to live in their homes um and then back when they were trying to look at this they were trying to move people up move us into class four which only would have given us a 10% savings on our on our on our our our insurance not a big enough amount the other thing is please whatever you do consider that you you know you might want to help some people but be very very careful what you're changing because you you need to realize that anything you changed could have other ramifications so there's the pr pre-firm homes and there's the post firm homes and some people have already worked hard or they've already bought a home that they feel is at the BFE and so any changes you make if you now say well we want everything to be BF plus T too or we want to use this other map well if you do that you might be forcing people now to have homes that have to be raised that didn't have to be raised and that that that would be horrible thing because then if we have to do improvements we have to raise our homes that we we already spent money to not have a home that had to be raised that we just needed to do repairs on so you can't do that to us and and that would also hurt all these other people that that that now we think that they're going to be doing what they need to do what's going to happen next um and and so FEMA also has the grandfathering Clauses FEMA has the things in there that say that you know if it's pre-firm you use the 50% rule but if it's postm it says right in the feema requirements just make sure that they don't do things that break the rules um and these are in my slides um and and and then you you've got all sorts of other issues that I that I'll read my slides I'll provide to you um so thank you very much thank you Jackie hubard hi I'm Jackie hubber uh OA Isle um I just wanted to take just a just a brief minute of your time to say thank you guys um and thank you to the city I've grown up in Florida I've never experienced anything like this before and the city I've been very impressed with everything that you guys have been doing so thank you for your hard work your dedication to our city to all of y'all up there and anybody watching that works for the city including uh the staff the firefighters the sheriffs thank you and all the contractors too they've been very nice everybody who turned on our power they were super nice and the hauler people are very nice too so thank you guys thank you that's all okay we will move on to approval of minutes from the September 16th 20124 meeting are there any changes requests okay can I have a motion to approve as the minutes are written motion to approve the minutes from the September 16th meeting as written second can I please have a roll call Vice chair Angelus yes member Groot yes member Perry yes chair hubard yes motion carries okay are there any action items there are not okay we will move to discussion items 5A is post disaster planning yes we can get the PowerPoint pulled up I also wanted to introduce the board to our new City Attorney Ralph Brooks sitting next to me thank you and our inter room Community Development directors in the audience Denise Sanderson hello so we didn't have a lot of content for you this month we wanted to still meet to go over some of the initiatives that the city is undertaking items that we're thinking about um we're obviously in the early stages of a lot of this but there are a few items that have moved forward to the commission we'll be moving forward to the commission and we just wanted to make you aware of them so the first is uh just a short discussion on our emergency zoning ordinances there was a two-part ordinance that was taken to the city commission last week on Monday one part of it was approved the second item was returned for attorney review it will be returning to the commission tomorrow for a vote so after a state of emergency the city is allowed to pass emergency ordinances that include some changes to zoning it doesn't allow for any kind of change to allowable uses but both of the items that were taken forward last week are related more to Property Maintenance than actual uses the first was allowing equal change outs of equipment and required yards currently the city allows for certain equipment to encroach into yards if it's at grade but if it's an elevated equipment typically when they come in for a change out when a homeowner comes in for a change out the equipment needs to be made compliant with the zoning ordinance we did as part of this zoning emergency zoning ordinance allow for equipment change out without need to come into compliance if it's in the exact same location same height and so on just to make it a little bit easier for people to get back into their homes After the Storm um and replace equipment that had been damaged by the storm it's an emergency ordinance it's only valid for 60 days it did pass uh last Monday so that is currently in effect the second item that we'll be returning to the commission tomorrow is to allow for inplace elevation of non-conforming residences this will come up it's a discussion topic that's going to be on the city commission's um agenda tomorrow but currently the city allows for improvements to structures that are not compliant with setbacks as long as it doesn't exceed the FEMA 50% value if it does not only does the home need to be elevated above the flood plane it also needs to be made compliant with the setbacks or a variance to be obtained um we have requested as part of this ordinance that a limited amount of elevation be permitted for residences that are non-conforming with the setbacks we see this a lot of the older neighborhoods where they were built prior to any kind of zoning regulations whatsoever um it would allow for structures to be minimally elevated out of the flood plane no more than 9 ft to allow for them to at least make those improvements without having to necessarily go forward for a variant or demolish the home especially if the variants were to be denied uh that is on the agenda for tomorrow's commission meeting um it was reviewed and Modified by the City attorney from the item that was presented last week but the substance of it is not really changed it's it's still the same basic content like the uh prior ordinance that was approved last week it would be valid for 60 days if it was approved can I ask you a question about that is uh I obviously it would be unlikely to ele be able to elevate a home within 60 days is is it just a as long as you get your application in to start the process it would be based on the application and and this is this is something that could be extended in 60 days they are able to extend it under the emergency ordinance Provisions if we're still in their state of emergency if not it could be made permanent it's just a kind of a bridge ordinance to allow that if someone wants to move forward the key from the legal perspective is you can adopt an ordinance on an emergency basis with just one reading instead of the two readings and the planning board so um after an ordinance is adopted as an emergency it can then go through the regular adoption of an ordinance process which would be coming to you and then going to first read and then I adverti second reading to made be made part of the permanent code okay Brandon I have a question on the first one so my understanding from listening to the uh commission meeting was for the uh change out of equipment that only applied to homes that were not substantially damaged is that correct it was like the home wasn't substantially damaged but the AC unit went out so we're just allowing them to to do a swap out is that actually correct and if so I kind of have a following question how is that going to be enforced that you didn't know that that home wasn't substantial damaged and if it comes back that they come for permits for follow on damage what is the recourse so under the standard that a home were substantially damaged the equipment is currently Adder near grade on a hurricane pad if they were to elevate they would not the this the equipment if it were in a sidey guard would not be able to remain where it is currently um that's a different process obviously is they elevate they're going to have to make other improvements so that that ordinance did not cover that um as we see permits come in for substantial Improvement substantial damage to structures the building department is requiring that let's say a homeowner comes in for drywall um repair drywall replacement rather um they they need to provide a FEMA packet a FEMA evaluation of all the work that needs to be done for the structure so early on we would be evaluating that now there are certain items that are exempt from the FEMA calculations AC equipment change out is one of them generator change out is is another um so that that is something we wouldn't be looking at at that stage but if they were to come in for a permit for substantial damage at that point we would evaluate the placement of the equipment okay and again for the public this is talking about putting equipment in the side setback um and then that's a local requirement as opposed to elevation of the AC which is controlled by fem and when that would have to happen corre would just be allowed people to put things back in the setback are which is truly just a local criteria with the consideration that if they had been damaged from the storm that we would locally want to see them elevated if that was the reason that they were damaged absolutely uh there were two issues that we wanted to just talk with you about this item in particular will be on the city commission meeting tomorrow as a presentation and this is the FEMA 50% substantial Improvement and damage rule the current s requirement that the city adopted back in July 2021 is a 5-year look back on permits however there are significant cost exclusions for maintenance and repair work a lot of that routine maintenance that homeowners need to undertake are completely excluded from the FEMA 50% calculation when those are repairs and maintenance of existing structures so window and doors change out when they're impact windows and doors going back in existing openings any kind of mechanical equipment change out roof repairs things like that those do not count toward homeowners 50% substantial Improvement value when they are repairs to the existing structure any of these items as part of an elective addition um whether onto the side of the building above the building those are always counted toward the 50% value but this allows for maintenance of homes without pushing up against that Fe of 50% value there's some other considerations like this um related to this that that might come up one of the items that was discussed um in a public comment was substantial damage does include any prior substantial improvements or sorry non-substantial improvements that were made after July 2021 and the date of the storm so if a property has had multiple elective Renovations that aren't excluded um since that time the damage does add in with those improvements to calculate toward the substantial Improvement value so not not every homeowner is going to be facing a clean slate when they come in for repairs but I just wanted to make that known um staff will discuss the current and alternative options with the commission tomorrow the first is a nol look back period this is the absolute minimum it's a standard the city had in place prior to July 2021 a one-year look back with no exclusions this is what the city had vetted by the state it was part of the ordinance that was presented to the city commission back in December 2023 um it is not currently in effect but it was part of a draft ordinance and the third is the current standard a five-year look back with exclusions um we're also going to be talking about what happens if we don't enforce the minimum substantial Improvement or damage rules that are required by FEMA as part of our participation in both the community rating system and the national flood insurance program that would be a a significant um negative impact to the city if that were to that were to occur um the FEMA 50% substantial Improvement damage rule does affect our ability to restore and improve structures without elevating or flood proofing of course at any point in time elective flood proofing elective elevation can be undertaken for most structures but this is the minimum requirement for bringing those structures into compliance with the FEMA uh standards that we will be talking about tomorrow second ISS uh second issue is uh the passor grill restoration of course there was significant damage uh Citywide a lot of damage down in passag gril and it didn't spare um many of our designated historic structures a few months ago uh the planning board met with the historic board to discuss some of the code changes that are being proposed to augment design review processes that is pending a city commission workshop and adoption um unfortunately we did have a workshop proposed with the city Commission right before Helen uh so that has been um put on hold for now but that is something that we're looking to take up in the future staff is discussing internally and we will be holding a historic preservation board meeting in November to discuss some of the options for incentivizing restoration instead of demolition for historic structures when it's viable to do so that could include v a faster variance review we are looking at options for and we actually just discussed with the state today the option for structures that are being substantially improved um on the inside but not really changing the exterior look of the structure if there's a way for us to expedite variance reviews for that not reduce any of the standards there are national standards that we need to look at for those variances but for those structures that are eligible for FEMA variances for the homeowners that want to undertake them is there a way to move through that process a little bit quicker I'll look for any kind of grants that may become available currently there are bridge loans available of course to historic businesses uh there's less on the residential side but we are looking into the grants that might become available for historic structures we are not currently looking at any process of Expediting demolition we do have one permit in for a demolition of a historic structure for the November meeting that is not something we're currently looking at Brandon I have a question if I remember from our combined board that the um properties designated as storic was a volunteer um option so does this um open up the opportunity for more um residents to join in and request to be considered historically designated absolutely um it's that's the one of the major incentives that we have there are some ADV valorum tax exemptions that are available many tend to take advantage of the FEMA variant this is an option for those structures that weren't completely destroyed so at least um for the owners to request so thank you yeah they got a 50% variance from the 50 50% rule they designated historic and some of their structures here might qualify I think you have to be 50 years old correct or some architectural significance so that's another option when we're considering 50% don't forget that one too great thank you in in contrast could someone opt out of being historic and so the city doesn't have a prohibition on Dem demolition of um voluntarily designated structures if they've received some kind of a variance many have received FEMA variances the owner can't elect to remove the structure from the voluntary list but they could always demolish uh the historic preservation board can put up to a 90day stay on that but it it depends on the justification for the variant or for the uh for the demolition okay so we are also going to be discussing with the city commission tomorrow a recovery test task force this is required by the coastal element of the comprehensive plan as you may remember that was just recently amended by the city um in the last year or so uh the primary needed responsibilities there are six responsibilities of the recovery task force but many of them have already been completed by the city the initial damage assessment things like that those are responsibilities that we've already undertaken the upcoming needed responsibilities will be Hazard mitigation policy recommendation and post- Disaster Response with recommended comprehensive plan Chang is as you're well aware um we will be taking on a separate process to look in detail at the large resort and the downtown zoning districts and fature land use clct categories these would be potentially parallel but additional um responsibilities that this recovery task force undertakes staff has made a recommendation on membership again this will be discussed tomorrow at the city commission meeting we're requesting that at least one member of the planning board historic preservation board and Beach stewardship committees be a member of this t Task Force at least one member of an environmental organization when that's more General like Tampa Bay Watch possibly the sea turtle tracker seabird sanctuary and then a team member of the Tampa Bay Beach's Chamber of Commerce the comp plan does require at least two staff members um that would be our emergency manager or city manager or design as well as a member of our building department the city commission has discretion to add more members they don't necessarily go need to go forward with the staff recommendations but these are the ones that we are going to be recommending [Music] tomorrow any questions no and the last items that I wanted to cover are some of the the important um but they are items that we won't be addressing in the immediate future in the next week or so um the first is the comprehensive plan evaluation kickoff of course looking at the large resort in the Town Center districts the scope of that has not changed since the last time that we discussed this with the city commission we will be looking at starting that kickoff um as as soon as viable we have pending projects these are items that will be brought forward to the planning board um at some point in the future we are looking at potentially November or December that is the miror Mar Beach Resort they will be returning um they needed to be read vertis you you did look at this project a few uh last month I believe but they they do need to return due to the addition of another request and then the Winward Pass Resort project that is another project the board has not seen yet that we will be bringing back to you for action and the Community Development Department has expanded hours I just wanted to make everybody aware of this we are open Monday through Saturday 8: a.m. to 430 p.m. and that is through November 2nd of this year any questions any discussion so the Miramar one I I thought I had understood it was just a advertising issue and it and it was coming back as it was but is there's actually been a change so this was brought up at the last meeting and they did add it in as part of the request but they are formally requesting outdoor dining on the rooftop that is its own portion of the conditional use permit request so we would like when when that item is brought back for you to to take action on both okay can so when that comes before us can will we be able to see a like a Redline version that shows the changes from what we had approved last time I I'll call this out yes okay M that is all I had unless you had other items yeah and that's that's just a screenshot from our website related to the emergency pering information the city has on its website STP beach.org a list of exempt um improvements that homeowners can make to their structure that do not need a permit as well as some of the items that we're attempting to review view in an expedited fashion a one day turnaround when we can so I just wanted to direct people to the website when they when they have a chance okay thank you um I I have a couple of questions and I'm trying to uh get them organized so that they're not all jumed um one of them the the ordinance 202 24-9 which is the one that is going before the commission tomorrow night um I don't know what's changed on that but I did see some things in this ordinance that probably would need some discussion um for example there's something about only going up 9 in or whatever within the design and yet it can the building has a height so I don't know why we wouldn't let people go as high as they want to go um so that's that's unchanged now we we did change base flood elevation to design flood elevation just to to remain consistent with FEA um I believe that was just a limitation put in place for non-conforming structures structures that meet the required setbacks they can Elevate as high as they would like they can Elevate up to they meet the the cap correct that only for non-conforming structures that are encroaching into a required yard the city did set did carry over that limitation on height okay and then if you're raising U let's say you have I don't know 10 foot set back on one side and and 3ot on the other side why would you not um Center the building or you know some of those things I just might be an opportunity to improve a situation and that was that was part of the draft at least is presented um we we would like them to relocate the building when it's viable to do so it's in situations where and we tend to see this and like like I mentioned some of the older neighborhoods where the setback is non-conforming on both sides and they can't relocate to make it more compliant with the ordinance in that case they would be able to minimally Elevate just to get the building out of the flood plane but for anyone who could comply with the setbacks we would be expecting them to do so okay all right what would happen if they wanted to improve the elevated portion later on then so if you elevate an old house 10 ft and then you come back and you want to redo that portion would you have to tear it all down or how would that no no no you you could as as long as you're compliant with the flood ordinance the building Department would allow you to put as much value into that as you wanted where the zoning limitation would come in would be if the homeowner wanted to add on to that structure in the future the addition would need to meet the current setbacks fo print can just exist permanently correct and and someone brought it up at the meeting last week it was it would almost be a the wedding cake design where maybe the ground floor that's elevated is set into the setbacks but if they wanted to add another story would need to comply with the setbacks that are in place today okay could could a non so let's say we've got a non-conforming structure they want to elevate it to the required flood elevation but that would put it over our permitted height limits is that just can't be done they would still they would need to obtain a variance for that it would only be for structures that and we typically at grade structures especially ones that have made it this far they tend to only be one or two stories but for those that are near the height limit they would need a variance if they were to go higher okay mhm one of the things that I know has come up is the back yes and um I did listen to the thing from Cape Coral that video and I quite honestly it was an eye opener for me and totally changed the way I was looking at several things um one of the questions that I had was they said they the that fiveyear roll back or whatever it's called that if a storm occurs and you're dealing with damage from a named hurricane or storm that the five years doesn't apply if I understood it correctly it's kind of like that resets the date that could possibly be their own local significant damages not improvements but for significant damages it was like a reset that everything on Damages goes back to the date of the storm so correct and it's it's both the it's it's any damage that is needed to make to restore the structure to its original condition prior to the storm whether or not those improvements or repairs are actually made it's um we make an evaluation of what needs to be done to restore the structure to the way it was prior to the storm and that is what factors into this substantial damage calculation and I I know that again at Cape Coral they had to do their own calculations because they said the FEMA guide was missing things um and the way that permits had to be done was totally different than what I thought because they basically said everything had to be permitted and they talked about the documentation that you need to have um one of the things that caught my eye was when I don't know apparently and if you haven't watched this but I I hope I'm interpreting it correctly but they basically said they didn't care about local ordinances State ordinances they cared about FEMA mhm and so even if you had regulations they they just kind of blew that off so that got me to thinking about why would we worry about you know one foot over or two feet or whatever because basically if we're talking about a flood or where FEMA is involved they're not going to look at any of that anyway so why would we just not be consistent with what FEMA has and I know that they talk about some points or whatever for savings on insurance but really it's when you look at the consequences it seems like that's not really as important as some of the unanticipated consequences understood and our ordinance is current we we are required to be minimally compliant with FEMA to remain in the National flood insurance program and to be part of the community rating system the community rating system is the point reduction system we we currently have a 20% um reduction on flood insurance rates due to our CRS score but we we are minimally compliant and the ordinance that was brought forward last December is is also compliant with FEMA that we did we we always send our flood plane ordinances up to Tallahassee they look at the content and make sure that they're going to keep us consistent with the national flood insurance program so when you say consistent I guess I want to make sure that we're not exceeding I mean do we meet or do we meet and exceed we we currently meet and exceed and and that's what I'm wondering since they're not going to look at that anyway I don't know I'm trying to understand the benefit of why we would do that it's important to realize that FEMA is actually two two agencies there's the regulatory side and then there's the insurance side so the regulatory side will have some minimums but in order to get enough points and they accumulate points for this CRS nfip program um it includes everything from having brochures and posters and citizen awareness all these things that are above and beyond just a regulatory thing so you get points for design plus one points for design plus two you get extra points and then uh where you fall on the CRS scale uh depends on those points and it's arduous process when they come in to do your points staff will tell you with their certified flood plane manager takes weeks to document all the things that they've been doing and trying to find other things where they could do them easily like brochures and getting points for those types of things we and that's one of the options that's going to be brought up tomorrow um what if the city were to only be minimally compliant with the FEMA requirements if if it were just the absolute minimum standard to be compliant with the nfip we we receive many points for other activities that we undertake that would not be affected if we were minimal compliant and it's it's not a significant number of points there are other ways to make it up increase elevation requirements how often we clean out the storm drains things like that it's it's there there are many ways to earn points but that's one of the options that's going to be presented and that is a standard the city had in place prior to July 2021 no time between permits each permit could go up to the 50% roll that that is an option that is the minimal uh Fe feem requirement I I would really recommend if if anybody had hasn't seen it um that video was very eye openening because they learned a lot of lessons the hard way and um they're sharing them which is I think very important um because it like I said it was a real eyeopener in terms of what you think you're complying and then what are the unintended consequences I'll send the link to the clerk's office so they have it in the public record so that if people are watching this and want to watch it they'll be able to ask the clerk for anything else okay thank you um we can move on to discussion item 5B discussion of Synthetic Turf so uh thank you while I was uh evacuated I had some time on my hand and uh this kind of a pet pet peeve of mine as I see in our neighborhoods more and more since thetic Turf going down uh as people put uh replace landscaping and so I did a little research um there is actually a chart out there of local Florida ordinances of on Synthetic Turf and I have asked Brandon the question and I wanted to bring up while he was here so hopefully he can help uh help uh clarify it for me so um in some communities it's um very um stringent as far as they talk about um how perious it has to be down to like how many gallons per hour how the life the life of the um artificial turf some communities say it has to last last eight years some talk about where it can and cannot be made some talk about what it cannot can and cannot be made of um and I think from a Coastal Community um standpoint it's all things that should be extremely important to us because of runoff because of landfills because of all sorts of things that you know maybe we should look at some of these other communities and make a decision or consider a decision of incorporating some more stringent um rules into our um our codes on that so I did want to approach you know have Brandon kind of weigh in on it and tell us like exactly I I see that it says when it talks about artificial um you know that it calls it nonous and how much it can cover on any lot whether it be residential or commercial um and I talk that see that it says it has to be naturall looking and then beyond that I don't see any very specific guidance within our city codes and so I would like some feedback I guess from from you um or staff on on how how that works for our city so we have a limitation along with other nonliving vegetative material um in total loot terms of total lot coverage so for the typical residential lot at least 1/4 of lot needs to be vegetative coverage beyond that in terms of our standards for artificial turf it's been primarily related to drainage we've always asked for you know what what composite is underneath the turf to make sure that it drains effectively but we don't have any product standards or anything like that and I know you mentioned that in in other communities they do have higher standards for for things like that but so then what I'd like to do is if we could send this to the staff and have staff maybe whatever the process is send it out and put it into a future um board so we can look at what so everybody can look at what the other communities are doing and decide if we want to consider adopting something a little bit more stringent into our community standards great that's yeah yeah I'm not opposed to that I I would like to learn more and our count plan and our even our our city core values include green initiatives and attempting to be more resilient so if if we're allowing a situation that isn't helping with that then yeah it deserves attention great great then I'll you have the documents so I just yes all that process is I'm not really sure what that process is for for Distributing and then future future followon discussion I'll pass those documents along at the board and then I'll add it onto a future agenda great thank you so much I appreciate it any else okay uh I believe we are ready to adjourn this is my this is my only second time adjourning the meeting do I need a motion or can I just adjourn the meeting you can adjourn it or get a motion okay uh there's no opposition I'll adjourn this meeting