e e e e e e e e e e welcome to the beach stewardship committee meeting today today is May 15th and let's join me in the Pledge of Allegiance please pled Al to the flag United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you all right and Ariana can we have roll call please member Stevens present Vice chair krisman present chair rothenberger present we have a Corum all right thank you okay the first thing we have on our agenda is a presentation we have two presentations today the first one is with Deborah rothenberger somebody I'm very familiar with and she's going to speak to us about the dun Savers that uh she started up earlier this year and she's going to explain to us what we've been doing what she's been doing with volunteers and I would point out before she starts we've got 300 volunteer hours so far since January it's been successful well thank you for that nice introduction Dan say we I will say he is my faithful companion and has put as much work into dun Savers as as I have and thank you all for having me as a speaker today and the purpose of my talk is to point out the importance of the Native vegetation that's on the dunes well if you're anything like me I've gone to the beach for years and really not paid much attention to the vegetation on the dunes and that all changed for me about two years ago and I discovered there's a lot more to the dunes than just the sea oos that we might take pictures of it sunset a friend through the Native Plant Society inv invited me to go to uh join a little group that she had in Treasure Island and they've been doing this for years she said just come up and see what my group is doing and they're pulling invasive plants out of the dunes well I joined them and it was an eyeopener for me I had no idea there were so many native plants but I also didn't realiz the problem of invasive plants in the first picture up there that big pile of grass you see is all non-native fountain grass that has invaded the dunes and can take over and crowd out even seod but this group we just followed the um the pattern that they had already set up because it it worked so well but they worked with the city closely with the city which we have done that with our group also and aako has been over the toop supportive of this group been helping us get going and also Mandy Edmund and also Jeff and um Ken Ken who also support us every week they bring big totters for us to fill then they come and pick them up and we sincerely appreciate the support the city has given us in do doing this we also just meet once a week for one hour so it's a very doable volunteer activity we meet on Fridays currently we're at upom beach from 8:30 to 9:30 we are doing something a little different than the group in Treasure Island they only work November through May because a lot of their members go up North but a lot of our members have said let's keep going because we've seen what a big problem we have with the invasive plants in the dunes well first to understand what an invasive plant is you need to understand what is a Florida native plant and basically those are plants that have been established here before European contact and one reason they're so important do so great they have been here for thousands of years they've adapted to our climate our insects our uh rainfall or lack of rainfall and so they are what establish well in our environment these are some examples of some Florida native plants although generally our native plants are not showy flowery plants we do have a lot of native wild flowers and they're beautiful the arrangement uh you see on this picture is uh from a coastal native uh Garden up in um Treasure Island and then also the purple flower you see is a Florida native plant plant it's a host plant to several butterflies then of course we have our sea our cabbage palms and hundreds more native plants that can be used also in the landscape now why are our Coastal native plants so important for many reasons one they are what stabilize and build our Dunes that is probably the most important thing to us right now they uh is stabilizing and building our Dunes but they also provide habitat for our Coastal and migratory birds not just the food but the type of grasses that we have in the dunes are what these birds are looking for when they're nesting uh when they're um uh eating they are looking for the native plants that have been here for thousands of years not some of these invasive plants that are uh popping up in the dunes it's also important even for our sea turtles because the dunes as they build they also build more Beach and which is important for our sea turtles these are a few examples of our Coastal native vegetation that's so important the Sea Oats and the way they work when the wind blows and the sand hits the the tall oats it knocks the sand down and that is what actually builds height in the dunes we also have plants that grow along the surface such as the railroad vine which also helps to keep sand on the dunes and there's a native Scola which is important because the sea Roots tend to go straight down and you have a plant like a Scola whose roots are more horizontal and then that helps form a net in the dunes and helping to hold sand together and to see the amazing job that these plants can do in the dunes the picture up on the left is from back from 1985 so 40 years ago this is just a group of volunteers from this area went and planted SE and you can see that area it is around 19th Avenue looking North you can see the dawn up in the future up in the um northern part but as you can see is perfect flat there was no Dune there at all and they planted Sea Oats and now the same area is in the um picture and you can see after idalia it was not even damaged at all from the storm and this is a very significant Dune now it's it's High and um it pro um provides a lot of stability Dune okay now a problem that we have in addition to the all the problems that you all already know about with our Dunes are we have invasive plants and basically you can have non-native plants that aren't necessarily invasive yet a lot of times we'll bring in non-native plants and we think that they're okay and then we find out no they're not but then there's also a natural Iz species non-native species that becomes invasive and what happens then is these plants start showing up in natural areas where no one has planted them that they're so widespread and the seeds get spread and that's how they start showing up in our Dunes in our mangroves these are pictures of the worst offenders you're probably familiar with up in the left is a Brazilian pepper tree and all those little red berries on there the birds will eat and then they poop them out all over the state including in the dunes in our mangroves and in places where no one's going to be able to get to them to remove them and they become huge trees producing more berries and it is a billion dooll problem for the State of Florida one of the other uh bad ones especially in this area is the carrotwood tree and actually it's probably all over the state but here it is a problem we see both of these um plant or these trees in the dunes usually where we are there's still seedlings but there are places in the dunes where these are huge trees and are going to take some kind of mechanical equipment to remove them but the carrotwood tree that's one of those we didn't know it was invasive when we first started using it when we moved here 30 years ago it was in the cities adoptat tree program and we planted three of them in our yard and it wasn't until about 20 years ago that we found out wow these things are showing up all over the place they're hugely invasive they produce thousands of seeds these are some more of the invasive plants that we found in the dunes uh the fountain grass on the left part of the problem there you can buy that at the big box stores in a across the street from the dunes people have this planted in their yards our landscape contractors still use it incl and then also uh asparagus fern that also grows in the dunes and is an invasive plant and probably one of the worst is this uh mother of millions plant this plant is so invasive in Australia it's against the law to even own them but what they do is all these little Nubs on the plant will break off and then they form these millions of babies on the um sand and it's just like a carpet and no other plants can grow in this area these are a few more of the invasives that uh you can buy this mother-in-law's tongue but when these things are planted they spread like crazy you can see in the one picture the mother-in-law's tongue is growing all up the CTI the CTI is a native plant it's great for the dunes this particular picture is not in the Dune it's in the um it's by the Bayway bridge but these things are sprouting up uncontrolled same thing with this other picture of the carrotwood tree there's a little picture there about of showing what a um seedling looks like these are a few more invasives the um cardboard palm and that one's still available for purchase and when once you know what these plants are and you start looking for them you will see these everywhere and you will regret the day you plant a cardboard bomb in your yard because it also spreads and gets huge uh one of the uh the showy rattle box is a wildf flower it is invasive and it's uh called that the little um seed pods rattle when you shake them but they're full of thousands of seeds this is also an example the picture on the right is our native Scola which is excellent for the dunes the one on the left is an invasive Scola that gets huge and can take over large areas of the of the Dune okay it can be a simple decision when you go to buy a plant choose to to plant a Florida native plant instead of an invasive plant and it takes a little um just educating yourself you can go on the Florida Native Plant Society page and look a plant up when you start to buy a plant you know Google it and see if it is a native plant or is it possibly an invasive plant so I know that you're all asking what can I do to help what can the city do to help well iako has already put our information on the city website which is great and people can go on the website and see when we are meeting but also wherever you see these invasive plants in your yard if you can remove them or from your condo your business also city property and I will tell you there are a lot of these uh especially carrotwood trees on city property there's also some uh bra Ian pepper in the Dune and we would like it if they would add money to the city budget specifically for removing uh invasive plants and to have a proactive um program to start removing these we also ask that you do not buy these plants don't allow the use of them and that the city make a list of forbidden plants and have that in the city ordinance that our contractors cannot use any of these plants in their projects because there are landscape um contractors who are still they'll plant fountain grass all over the place and then it's a problem for us to clean up I have an example of the Todds that uh Ken and uh Jeff bring out to us and fill them up with fountain grass also spread the word because I didn't know this two years ago and I think a lot of people don't and people go to Home Depot or Lads and see a lot of these grasses and things or invasive plants and buy them so we just it's an education program so in summary I would just like to say that uh if we don't have these Coastal vegetation then of course we won't have our Dunes which is going to cut down down on our Beach area so our Wildlife won't have a place and people won't have a place and there'll be a lot of sad people and now you know why people call me Debbie Downer because uh I feel like I'm gloom and doom but thank you all very much for having me today than thank you and I don't know if you have time for questions or if anyone has any questions but um thank you chair I just want to I've uh you know through my my life I've seen the work that you debut and your team do every Wednesday and it's incredible and everyone if you know anybody that loves the beach mention this this uh group to see if they're willing to come out and I also want to recognize our chair um he is a loyal member of that group every Friday morning um help helping remove the bad plants so I just wanted to recognize him as well thank you thank you I've got a couple questions um so I know that down in hassil um there was a lot of you know concern about people walking on the dunes until the vegetation grew does it does the native stuff grow quick enough and and you're saying that if you stick to the natives and you pull all these invasives out that will give you the the thick coverage that we don't don't have to worry if people walk on it versus if invasives take over that would be so much worse that's that's your point in this well you always want people to stay out of the dunes yeah um no matter what because they trampling plants they'll trample like new plants that are shooting up yeah up or south of the Paradise Grill where that area is so sensitive and nobody should be walking in those Dunes ever what I was getting at there was you showed pictures where these invasives just really rooted in and if our mission is rooted in I'm just I'm just being not Devil's Advocate but I'm just trying to understand if these invasives really root in and our mission is to root in which why are they bad well they're bad because now some of them do take some digging to get out but for the most part they have shallow roots like those mother of millions you can just pull those out left and right so no they they that's the problem you want deep yeah you you want Deep Roots now the there's also the the problem though things like Brazilian pepper those things will really dig in but they're a huge problem because they'll eventually be a monoculture so then you will have nothing but Brazilian p pepper and they'll die off of it that's yeah that's a problem and it just spreads and the state is doing all they can to eradicate it so we need to just do our part here and you know keep it out of our yards and out of our Dunes because the birds do spread that and and then it gets into you know especially like in the mangrove Islands it's it's hugely bad for the environment and then the other thing is PE people need to do this through your group I know that I once witnessed some people actually just taking plants out of uh a Ravine and then making um you know pulling pulling them up and closing off part of the beach trying to keep people out of an area of the beach by deliberately moving plants so they could then tape it off and say oops this is our area because is now the the dunes and they were making a dune um you know and you know I called it in and and they were told to stop but you're this organization is an organization so you're doing it in conjunction with the city right we we definitely work with the city we let them know every week where we will be and we also now have a sign that we put out so it's you know it's official right um you're not making Dunes you're going where there are dunes and you're working where they want you to be right I think um John is going to get into something later uh aako and Mandy Edmonds asked us to partner with the city and plant seos and so we're going to uh support the city and and do what we can but yeah I think John's going to talk about that later that's terrific very nice thank you yeah thank youone else okay thank you very much you so just to go on and I've had a conversation with Jennifer on this and ioko and Mandy um I see people in the dunes every day and you know they did add some signs down there in pasag gril which Deb said is a very sensitive area um you know in the picture that you showed back I I don't know how long ago was that where they were doing the plantings 19 8 85 they actually put up a blue fence in that picture to keep people out of that planting area and I know that there's pros and cons about putting a fence up or not but literally every weekend I'll just say every day I do a beach walk I'm seeing people I see Footprints right that's what really shows it especially in those newly planted areas could um you maybe go back in see you know what's the appetite of actually putting some barrier for a while to keep them out so they can establish uh because I I agree without Dune plants we lose sand we lose the Dune without Dunes we lose the beach and as well as water comes up and gets onto property so I think everyone can agree dun's good um and without Dunes we have sad people uh so I I don't know what's what's the appetite and I'm not saying hey you put a fence everywhere but in new Dune plantings like we did down in P the grill and actually up and up on beach there's some places there um and you see think especially by the volleyball courts if you go up there there's just you you can see it every day you see Footprints and then it'll rain the footprints are gone and then next weekend you see all these Footprints and there's a sign right there and I wish sign I wish to the I thank you um I wish signs changed human behaviors but unfortunately they don't um so well what is do you think that is motivating that behavior then is it um if the sign isn't working what do you think is the reason they're doing it is it maybe the sign should say where the next crossover is like why is it this there lazy they don't know where to go this this isn't them crossing over this is them like on the volleyball court and there's a dune right there I think they're going up to get a better view of the sunset this isn't even crossover crossovers are a whole another conversation uh we can have that um and I think we're going to have a crossover update uh later but this is just basic people are just walking up to get up get up high to get a good view or kids going up to you know they they're climb in the mountain so is there is there a maybe there's a another spot that would be a good I'm just trying to say like what what's the reason they go there and is there a way we could make it more attractive to go somewhere let them know where there if I could get into their heads I I could tell you but all right you know I'm laziness the most direct route I not willing to walk around it could be all kinds but there's plenty of other the options are visible they just choose that one yeah okay well and to to John's Point too it's especially down past a grill the slope there invites kids to run up because it's neat people also put their chair loungers up against that too you know has nothing to do with the Crossovers but and it just keeps chipping away at it so it it has been um the plaint has come in about people doing exactly that and so um if I'm out there I if I see them I always address it if we've told the sheriff's the community police when they're patrolling to address it as well you know I but that's the we're aware of it so if we if we see them we'll tell them is there another that's when I saw the picture they actually put barriers up in the past and look at this beautiful green Dune now uh because they kept people out uh it's just something I think the city should consider is going back to what they've done in the past is and that may be appropriate once all the renourishment is complete I don't think they're going to do that now weing but certainly any time you do replanting you while it's that very sensitive you know period of time keep people out of you know it's like planting a brand new Garden you don't let people go walk on your you know planted brand new Garden at least maybe from Main traffic side basic and guide traffic at least maybe from the main traffic side depends I appreciate what you do go definitely and I know you can once you start working you see everything you see people during you know you can only do so much it's mading yeah okay let's move on our next speaker Lisa Wright she is the founder excuse me and the CE of coastal Wildlife I don't have my good glasses on Coastal wildlife and advas group Lisa thank you very much for being here today thank you very much for having me that's a mouthful I know perfect segue into my presentation um I'm coming to you guys with an idea and actually seeing it all over the coastal communities in the entire United States actually so I want to do a presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions or talk about it further and see what you think I'll give you a little bit of background about myself um I've been in this area for over 40 years originally born and raised in Pennsylvania uh went to Florida State and stayed um I've patrolled the beaches here uh on Treasure Island and St Pete Beach for the past 13 years under several marine turtle permits um I'm currently the conservation chair for St beat Autobon I have done bird stewardship for the black skimmers uh when they are now have an established Colony here on St Pete Beach and they are protected I've also volunteered as a wildlife rescuer sorry and um have witnessed firsthand the effects of human impact on our Wildlife my primary mission is to work with local Coast communities uh municipalities in pelis County to protect our Coastal wildlife and to preserve the coastal habitat on which they depend I think the reason that I it was suggested that I do a presentation is because Doom Sabers is a volunteer organization and maybe we can kind of uh utilize volunteers together um because I think we have the same mission in mind uh my passion and commitment for protection of our Coastal Wildlife is in response to the growing concerns again the human impact of our Coastal wildlife and loss of their habitat our beaches are more crowded than they have ever been and um I think that uh the purpose of the beach ambassador program is to Advocate to educate and keep people informed and also be eyes on the beach so I refer to as the voluntary Beach uh ambassador program or VBA for short the VBA program is one of a mult multi prong approach and um it's basically taking an approach to further the mission to protect our City's biggest asset which is our beach and its Wildlife we love our beach we want to share its wonders and we want people to understand what it takes to protect it what's the purpose of a volunteer Ambassador Beach ambassador program basically to be a friendly face to be identifiable on the beach and educate beachgoers uh regarding Beach rules ordinances things like sitting in the dunes um and uh basically the bottom line is education U maybe talking to them about Wildlife that exists the fact that we are in sea turtle nesting season that we have a black skimmer colony and honestly being a bird Stewart there are people that have lived here and been res resents for years and do not know what a black skimmer is so uh people find it fascinating uh when you can provide them helpful information what do volunteer Beach ambassadors do they make sure they are easily identified identifiable typically uh what I've seen in all other communities is they wear the vest the neon vest I think it's going to be a less expensive alternative to t-shirts although there can be t-shirts maybe a name tag um but this is to be able to identify who is a beach Ambassador and make them more approachable too so for example when we are Beach uh bird stewards we wear shirts that say ask us about the birds and it invites conversation and so uh again and we want to be the friendly face we want to interact with the public in a positive and friendly Manner and we the idea is maybe to station uh volunteers at public accesses and then have them also walk the beach some of the other things that they can do is there is a ton of information regarding uh sea turtle nesting um but we can provide um all kinds of information brochures to the public um and local and and also educate them about local businesses where to go what what restaurant has the best sushi so it can be beneficial too for the businesses because a lot of people ask that even as a bird Steward hey where where can I get the best hamburger or whatever the case might be um but most importantly we want to teach them about Beach etiquette namely leave no Trace keep our beaches clean dark flat um and my my screen I guess my my uh the bottoms are chopping off yeah it's kind of cut off um so I'll just keep going volunteer Beach uh ambassadors should be seen filling in holes knocking down leftover sand castles and I say leftover because we don't want to go up while a child is building a sand castle and knock it down but it is a perfect opportunity to be able to walk up when you know they're packing up and leaving to say Hey you know this is why we're doing it um and and use it as an educational opportunity uh also to pick up trash um so I've seen Beach ambassadors that have little wagons with the little Trash Pickers and a sign that they're a beach Ambassador so again they're very identifiable and it's a friendly type interaction um more of what they do is um that's redundant uh basically the same thing that the dun Savers are doing and that is to work together with the city so if there is a problem on the beach if we have I've seen so many times unleash dogs let alone dogs um the beach ambassadors will know who to call if there is a nest hatching and it's disorienting who do they call what should they do um and educate the beach ambassadors to be able to also um keep a log of the activity when they are on the beach and then any issues will be um put through the city if need be if it's an ordinance situation so this is actually a picture I took from um one of the beach Ambassador programs and I thought it was really kind of cool um because definitely she's identifiable there is a sign that she has um so essentially what does it take to be a beach Ambassador obviously to have a passion about protecting the beach and and our Wildlife to have a positive attitude and a positive approach to protecting the beach and also value uh Beach tourism and know that we have a lot of tourists out there and uh it's a perfect opportunity to educate uh most programs uh do require that you're over 21 or at least if you want to volunteer if you are under 21 you go with another Beach Ambassador um there is uh mandatory training which I think is important I think that the beach ambassadors need to be educated about the beach ordinance what the rules are and again who they need to contact in certain situations um what the protocol is and obviously if they're going to be out there in the heat they must have stamina mobility and maturity so this is just a a simple uh flowchart if you will where it's going to start with the city um code enforcement and Public Works may have to get involved is if there's um I know that after storm sometimes times the trash cans blow over and there's trash everywhere and so you know it could be a simple call um and then iako would be our point of contact or however we would want it to flow um but Coastal Wildlife advocacy would be the program manager so we would get the volunteers we would also um do training in conjunction with maybe aako uh or anybody else from the city public works um whatever that that looks like and then we would manage the volunteers on a regular basis the city we would ask the city would like they've already done with the dun saer program is um put the uh VBA program on the website on how to get involved and what being involved means and also maybe we provide space for annual training and ongoing workshops again I mentioned this earlier um Coastal Wildlife advocacy group would provide the volunteers we would also provide um training and managing of uh all of the volunteers and we would basically have a schedule laid out and and that schedule we would know who's volunteering who's where and who and when um and then each volunteer would fill out uh some sort of log every time and keep track of what's going on out there so that we can keep a log and know if there's anything uh going on that needs further attention or I think that at the end of the day to have a presence out there with some makes a big difference I don't think signage works and I I know that from being a bird Stewart again um with the black skimmers when FWC is out there the behavior of the people is totally different so I think if we start having a presence on the beach not law enforcement but ambassadors to say we're here we care and we want to make sure everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing um so annual training uh Patrol beaches I said march to October uh I'm kind of coinciding it with um nesting season for black skimmers and sea turtles it doesn't have to be yearr it doesn't have to be every day I would say we would definitely need to do it on the weekends and certainly on the holidays um we would section out the beach um I said three section it could three sections it could be four it could be five whatever you know whatever seems to make sense and what the volunteers are willing to do um also communication among the volunteers which I'm already doing as an organization is there is signup.com so we have everything on record of who's signing up and when and slack I don't know if you guys are familiar with that but that is a a platform for organizations to have a community texting so that if if there's 40 volunteers and I have an announcement to make I can make it and everybody gets it so I don't have to make 40 phone calls or send you know emails it it just um consolidates a lot of communication and then of course log books we would want them to have that um so the materials and Equipment vests name tags maybe wagons signs trash Pickers and brochures most of those are free I know that the vests I looked on Amazon we can get probably 10 vests for 20 bucks so um and I also know that some of um some of the Cities do um like a membership so if you want to be a beach Ambassador you pay 10 bucks a year so um there's all kinds of ideas out there um in conclusion the VBA program can be implemented with no or minimal cost to the city the VBA program helps residents tourists and other others understand how to protect our biggest asset our beach and our Coastal Wild Life the program boosts Beach safety through awareness education of our City's Beach rules and it sends the message that we care about our beach and its protection I'm happy to answer any questions thoughts ideas I guess I've got a few questions I mean I mean I love that you you know are thinking about all these things and and and you know coming with ideas of how to protect the beach being an award-winning Beach I'm always nervous about change and in some ways I I'm trying to think of the boundaries um and the kinds of things that that could um they could be involved in um you know whether some people might get too ambitious you know or what would they you know if or if they if they would be doing the interactions or whether they would just call in um you you mentioned wisely about maturity um and you know you have some people that maybe may take things the wrong way like if you know if they see someone eating from a styrofoam container you know and they're and they're going to throw it away right you do you go over and say anything or if they have a a plastic straw you know but again they might be throwing it away so that's go ahead the the um they have to attend I think that the training will address all that um as far as Behavior your behavior how you approach somebody people need to understand you know there is a certain way to approach people or etiquette and I think that's going to be coming from training and continual workshops to say you know here's here's the guidelines here's the parameters you don't want to get involved or be confrontational um you know we we kind of learned that too with with sea turtles and and being um a bird Steward where you know you if if there's a problem and someone is not responding or being aggressive in some way then you call the non-emergency emergency Sheriff line and obviously if it's an emergency you dial 911 but I see your point and there is I think there has to be a um defined protocol or what are the boundaries so I know you use as a good example you're not going to go with someone to fill in the hole when they're doing it right you know but keep an eye on before they leave but would the protocol be if you see someone with styrofoam or straws do you go over and say make sure you throw it out or you just leave them alone oh I don't think I don't if they're sitting there eating and having a good time I don't think there's any reason to approach them right you know it's going to be Behavior like if they're they're all packed up and they have a pile of trash that's an opportunity to say Hey you know do you have a bag let's get a bag I have a trash bag let's put all this in the trash because we can't leave it here and and then I wonder if they if their eyes and ears if they see Hotel chairs being way too far towards the water did they call that in or if there's loud music I don't even know if that's an ordinance violation yet or if there's other ordinance violations that are for the quality do they well here's get involved that's a good point I think that I don't know if yall have ever been out on the beach at night but it's crazy out there I me even during the day but okay at night too but yeah I mean so we have um the artificial light they they're calling it transient light which is lanard um that sometimes fishermen use and also which is like a beacon you know in the middle of of the beach but also flashlights um so there's a lot of people on the beach with flashlights and it's the white light and it's extremely damaging and disorienting not only to the hatchlings but the Fe the female sea turtles so again it's an educational thing and having somebody out there but to address the chairs yeah I think that that um if a resort has their chairs which has happened this past Friday where the umbrellas and everything were still in the ground that should be reported on some level okay that can go through IO and then she can you know take it from there and that will be the chain of command okay thank you Lisa thanks for being here um I think this is a very interesting idea that the city should really think about it has some similarity to what sea turtle trackers is doing they have a fleet of volunteers that they have their morning walks that go out right at sun sunrise um to go and look for nest then they have the they call it the whole Patrol um at night to do kind of similar things so there's there's some synergies there's a little overlap and there's some synergies there but there uh and iako is is giving me details there's a really good City partnership with them that the sea turtle trackers will actually walk the beach and then report that the beach is clear and then operation Mandy's team will then go and start the raking and cleaning and trash because you don't want somebody to drive over a fresh Nest so I think that there's some things that has already happened in the city that kind of support that kind of cooperation and there's also another item on the agenda you kind of I put it on know the code um and I know we have this but having somebody there explain the code stay off you know before stay off the dunes you know flat you know fill in the holes knock down the the the sand castles like that leave no Trace I think it's an interesting uh I think it's an interesting idea that should be pursued it's it's essential that ordinances are known and maybe a little I know handouts I don't want handouts but I I'm I'm thinking QR codes because people have their phones and so the QR code will actually just give them Beach rules just simple Beach rules know the code know the code right and keep it simple um you know you can go crazy and and I actually met with with Brun Bruno the marine turtle permit holder and said how can we work together great and um I I haven't gotten an answer so I don't know but I know that I don't want this effort to just be centered around sea turtle activity I think we need to broaden it oh absolutely you know that was that wasn't the point yeah but yes I would I would love to take some of those volunteers and that effort absolutely and work together into um John's point is I think there needs to be a conversation with the city of where the boundary is of what they can be doing should be doing yes and unfortunately this day and age you know there are behavior of people we might not want volunteers for certain items interacting with a tourist or you know somebody on the beach just for their safety I hate that I have to say that but in this day and age you have to well but there's that doesn't mean that if they see something they can say something um for certain things and then there's other things that they like that and sea turle trackers my wife Nancy and I went to their training just a week or two ago and they they went through the okay if it you know if it's a teachable moment and it's no threat then you do that if it's not teachable moment then here's the phone number to call am I get say something also you just pointed something out it reminds me of where these people would even be allowed to walk um it sort of segu into some of the other topics we're talking about later but you know we have where we can walk up in the mean high water line but are you going to get are these people going to get accused of trespassing if they walk behind a hotel well I think the the areas of concentration would be the public accesses okay and you know maybe fan out but be you know on the mean high water line okay so would not go into or intrude on Hotel guests that's not good that would not be what I think would be useful and I I I've you know I've stressed that it has to be a a friendly thing it's hey we're just here to let you know you know this is going on or that's I mean it could be anything um not not okay not confrontational not not a negative approach or a slap on the hand it can't people don't respond well to that right and it does become a safety issue because if you have a group of teenagers and they're you know there's 20 of them and you upset one of them there's no telling you know it's it's not I think there I think there needs to be a certain approach and I think there needs to be a certain protocol and guidelines to what is the issue and what how should it be handled so do I even approach this person and as far as sand castles I've done that for years where I will go up and I will you know the kids will be they built their sand castle now they're over here doing something else and we make it fun MH let's you know destroy the the sand let's jump on the sand but um but I usually and it's usually beneficial to have a conversation with the parent and then the parents usually like hey guys come on over kind of thing so I think there has to be the right person we can't have somebody out there that's a sergeant that's you know right pointing all kinds of stuff out and and and taking a very um assertive approach I don't think that will work so again it'll be more about boundaries again about even where yeah okay yeah great otherwise I don't think it would thank you very much Lisa thank you great potential definitely thank [Applause] youa all right we need to approve the agenda and minutes the minutes but oh yeah jenda right yeah we got to do that first and I had mentioned earlier I think because we're missing two people would it not make sense to postpone picking the directors at the next meeting Ariana would that be that's entirely up to you guys as a board if you want to do that that's fine I just need a motion what do you guys think I agree I'll I'll make a motion okay I make a motion that we um move the election of chair and vice chair to our next meeting I second that good all right do we need a call roll call member Stevens yes Vice chair kman yes chair rothenburger yes motion carries now as far as approving uh agenda do we have an uh a motion to approve the May 15th agenda I'll move to approve the agenda second all right roll call Vice chair kman yes member Stevens yes chair Rosenberger yes motion carries all right now we have audience comments anyone here to speak today this morning I did receive one comment card but it is on a specific agenda item for 5c I see okay so we'll deal with that there okay next action item would be approval of the minutes for the February 21st meeting you have a motion for that I'm sorry I was looking at 5c can you repeat that chair that's all right we need a motion to approve the minutes from the February 24th I have any no changes or like that so is that a motion to accept I make a motion to accept the meetings the minutes or approve the minutes I I actually I didn't have time to check the video but um with regard to to what our agreement was for revising the um for how we were going to come up with a um a plan for getting into the loop on on on documents you know and getting CCD I thought we were going to get a some sort of proposed draft I think that might be on the agenda but was it was it is that 5A yeah but was it was it was it represented correctly here in the minutes I I guess I'm not prepared so I'll just go with what was in the minutes okay we're fine I I'll move to accept the minutes as is okay second good roll call please member Stevens yes Vice chair kurman yes chair Rosenberger yes motion carries all right and that gets us actually to section five 5A Beach stewardship receiving information for related things to their responsibilities iako well I think John you wanted to say what you wanted to say about that or well I guess it's just um we can go by what's in the the m minutes but I I think that there was um going to be some activity by either staff or legal as to a you know some work to be to be done of sending us something that had been done by another organization or a draft of what makes sense for us for us then to look at and discuss is Jennifer here no she's out there I think she'd be the one to um can we just I was just looking for the minutes to see what um what did it said in there but that was my recollection of yeah and I think she has a date or information about that process or because I think at one point they wanted to have a special meeting and I was like why have a special meeting if we can't just start with something we if I recall it was just if there was something that was going to go on the commission's uh agenda or talk about that we just be informed for example there was a walkover that was approved um there's Beach renourishment that um was approved um or is now happening that's just St is there a way for us to get a c CC not a special meeting right a cc that hey that's going on because that's directly involved with what we're responsible for um I think that was the spirit of the conversation am I remembering that right I think you are that's the way I remember it I mean and frankly I mean it's not like I'm looking for someone to do work for us but I I happen to look at all the city commission meetings if I'm not at them but even if there's a presentation at a city commission meeting as there was on the walkovers right you know let us know so that we at least keep up y with the stuff that we're supposed to be responsible for I think that's a reasonable request um here's Jennifer here's Jennifer J it's all good now you can feel like I do at some of the city commission meetings where I walk in and because I wasn't light in until the time but anyway you want to explain or should I explain go ahead John we were just discussing the the item of um how we get in the loop on items and keep informed uh where that we were trying to figure out whether we have a resolution or we go to the city commission where either I think it was you or Matt or how we were we brought that up last night at the meeting and I think you all will get a doodle schedule of figuring out when we would be talking about the beach ordinance and we can bring that up with the commission at the same time this is not not the ordinance this is still the one about solution but I think that's a discussion that you can have with the commission at that time to see if that's the direction different topic right that we're we're talking about a different topic you want the resolution like the historic preservation board how do we keep how do we get kept in the loop of certain beach related items as they're going on in between our meetings for example Beach walkovers being on the commission um agenda to be approved um Beach renourishment being um uh approved by the county well like that it's just how do we is there a way or a process that could be put in place that we just as the beach Stewart we can give you information yes the County's going to do what the county is going to do we don't have a say one way or the other so in that we can provide the information which I think is on the agenda to give an update on what's happening with that um same kind of questions came with historic preservation board it took us a year and a half to come up with that to go to the commission three times before resolution was done and so it was a process of things that should go to you that they agreed should go to you when it becomes a maintenance issue or things that you have to do and we can't wait two months to come to you before we do things that is not realistic so that is what we win through with the historic preservation board as well and so we did a resolution with them that if that's what you're looking for and I think Matthew is explain this that is the direction we would go to is we would have these discussions on what you want it goes to commission whether they feel this is yes yes no yes no yes all of it great you know and then they pass the resolution and that gives the guidance then it codifies for the city no matter who's here what comes to you all and that's the process we just went through with historic preservation board I I think this is getting maybe more complex than we're trying to accomplish we're not trying to get in the middle of a flow of information to to block it what we were trying to do I believe as we discussed at the prior two meetings over the last six months is make it that we are kept up to date on things that are occurring so that if we choose to have an emergency meeting we can um and not have to wait till the next meeting so that for instance um and this this is just an example there was something that was presented at a city commission meeting that was directly about the beach and so it would been useful if the people in the beach stewardship committee were notified that that was occurring you know it would normally just be maybe almost considered a courtesy to say hey they're doing a presentation on beach nourishment at the city commission there's only two things Beach Steward committee is responsible for Beach nourishment and Beach protection and since one of them is being prot presented at the at the city commission meeting you might want to know about that so since that doesn't occur I'm just trying to come up with a process for that I knew about it but not not necessarily the other people did and so what I'm trying to do is get a procedure so that everyone on the beach committee knows about itos also didn't know about it I'm sorry iako also didn't know about it I'm not blaming her no but I'm just saying I'm saying we need a procedure I'm just saying that there are multiple people involved in the city right so if everybody's on board that's fantastic io's on board iako is going to keep you in the loop but if iako is not not aware of it how is she going to keep you aware of it that's something internally we would have to work on John I don't think it's something that needs to be put in a resolution oh I'm I'm not saying it needs a resolution I'm asking how do we make it happen it's communication and you're and who appointed you makes you in the loop like hey this is on the agenda what who put you on this board they should be informing you if something's coming to them asking you for your advice nobody told them that either no we have told them that multiple times so they've only they've only appointed you know in January and I don't know that they've had a class on when they're supposed to be notifying each committee person on I think it was discussed last night to to make sure that their members are are involved in things so I don't I don't know what answer you want I'm trying to we're try you want we're trying to have a discussion right as to what the process might be so that when matters that would be relevant to the committee members are either going to be discussed at the city commission or coming to the city commission that the that the beach stewardship committee is I sendemail out to the whole city that if anything is involved in the beach that they let iako know and she keeps you all informed that would be ideal that might be the answer to this whole thing I mean because at this point what you're specifically talking about she didn't even know about until it was on the agenda and discussed that that's really all we that's really all we've been trying to accomplish is that that we're in the loop to know and then the and then the other side of that would be we need to be able to know and maybe we it gets into the the finer details things like conditional use that was that was the beach nourishment side but Beach protection there it gets into interpretation a little bit where you know uh when there's a conditional use application and you're going to add you know hundreds of people to the beach for instance Beach stewardship might want be involved and think about you know making recommendations we do it on our own are a quasi judicial process that's already set we talked to this with the historic preservation board that had that same request um it is not to go to all different boards to get their opinion it is set by ordinance how a conditional use permit is done and Matthew explained this in historic preservation board to change that process in a quasi additional Hearing in that process is not going to change the process that's set in place is how it is now if that's what you want to change talk to your commissioner to try to make changes to the process but that's what's already set in place to get a permit we're not going to go to multiple boards historic preservation board made that same request if you're making that request the library board can make that request parks and Rex might want to see the landscape design where does it stop uh again it's not it's not necessarily to be part of the approval process just to be made aware that it's occurred ing so that we might be able to provide input should we choose to it's not it's not changing it and I think we're if I may please um I don't think we're asking to be insert ourselves in the decision making process maybe that's where I might be a little bit different than John here it's just as you're as you are aware of something going on please let us know and then my request is how do we make sure that she's included and I think your email might solve that so we just have more visibility it's going on that we might choose to call Our member or our our commissioner that appointed us to have some input that's we're agree and then for the conditional use permit you know I would and I I put it on and I know Brandon uh he's going to show up uh later today what are the standards I think we should have a conversation as if a conditional use permit is going to be done what is there a standard set that everyone needs to follow that's consistent and is that standard up up to date so when it does go through the continue use permit process that there is a a standard of what needs to be done to the beach for their development stands that way I think that's a reasonable ask to make sure we we realize what is going to be asked and approved for Beach for every condition use does that make sense maybe I spoke in a circle there but yes in a way I don't know about standards per se but our comp plan addresses what needs to be happened on the beach and easements and things of that nature and um so it's really more Dune right um and I think later number uh k um Brandon's going to come and speak to us is what are the requirements of a cup for Dune restoration um when it's required for a cup that I put that on I just wanted to know for these developments what are we having them do and is that standard across all of them the standard is the D it's not the city of St Pete Beach okay so they're setting the standards they're setting the standards that all would go through them to begin with so um but back to my you know back to getting off of Cups it's is is she can keep us I would love to have her know everything that's happening on the beach as as well as you so as be when I sit back down I have my laptop with me I will send that email before in the next five minutes yeah and I know that's you know things are going to slip by and that's you know this is a a city organization and there's lots of hands moving but as the beach manager I would hope you'd want to know everything that's going on in the beach as well yes so when you asked me did I know about the beer nourishment plans and I said to you I hadn't heard anything cuz I legitimately hadn't heard anything it was the first that I heard from the grape vine yeah yourself and others and were you the one that told me about somebody told me about Beach Tre nourishment I found out at a chamber meeting oh because someone asked me because it was on the news that morning and I didn't know anything about it so I I contacted the county and that's how I found out wow yeah so I I think I think DPW has a lot of the information and I think if we can get on their mailing list that will probably help us a lot happy too so thank you I think that that resolved very much thank you thank you all all right while I did invite for example Brandon Barry and Mike Clark Mike Clark has given me information just letting you know by via email he's not able to be here and I believe Brandon isn't going to be able to be here either I think Jennifer was going to speak on his behalf as well any questions you had so we get to that moving forward okay okay 5B beach deeds and public right to the beach this is an item that I had requested um I had requested the surveys previously obtained by the special project that the city had had uh Jennifer had had it done I believe and and Alex Ray um where they got a lot of the surveys and they were in an application um I ended up doing a foer request to to get those um and I did look through them um they are just surveys um I then though went to um the uh prop the panel's tax assessor site where I was then able to download some Deeds I happened to look at the deed forence for one of the Tradewind locations because it was it was part of their cup and that it wasn't part of their cup uh and on that one for instance it did have the language that I was looking for uh and that language was um that it took that it it excluded in their ownership rights that it recognized that the public had access to the beach so it it said you know that this this ownership ah very nice it it um it had ownership of the um uh it recognized ownership of the beach and that's similar to for instance a deed uh that was in the back of one of the Cabana applications from another hotel um where they said you know uh this this deed says recognizes that uh the public has rights to use the beach you know similar that Duke Energy has rights to run power and cable has rights to do what they do the public has rights to use the beach um but that's not on it's not on the surveys it's only on these deeds and you have to look at the deed um and and so the reason why is that important it's important because it's just question of customary use that keeps coming up um there was a law that said you can't um make a positive affirmative defense or you can't do ordinances after a certain date that that preserve you know customary use but it doesn't take away customer use it just says you can't create ordinances it's like saying you know you can't create an ordinance it says you have a right the Free Speech doesn't take the right of free speech away it just says you can create an ordinance that's that that you know reaffirms it um so you know customary use has not gone away um and I I raise that point because it's it gets relevant when you start talking about fees it gets you know and and it gets relevant when you start and reason I got involved with it was when people started saying you know we should take the CH make people take their chairs in at night I'm like well you know are you going to make me take my chairs off my pool at night you know and I want to understand that these people really you know have full rights to what's on their property and that sort of thing so uh and and we hear stories of people being told that they can't go on the beach so I think it's important to understand when someone's being told get off the beach do they have a right to be on the beach so when I heard that we had a company that was an expert and had access to all sorts of historical deeds and surveys when they were doing their allocation of money uh or allocation of contracts at the beginning of the fiscal year calendar year um there was a company that was expert in that and I was thinking that we might want to ask the that company to collect all those uh Deeds um uh but now that I've since found how easy it is to get off the penis County site um I would probably do that first before I even found which ones were missing um and then I guess the other part was be understanding what the city would do with that information because so far um I'm not quite sure how it's really being treated you know even where we do know that the public has the access um I'm not quite sure you know how custom use is being interpreted um but you know I'll look for other input or I'll just put it out there and and and and just and just say that for de public deeds and public right to the beach you know there is um we need to I think we need to preserve the customer use as it is I I'm not quite sure where the case is right now there there cases up in you know at the Panhandle on on the on the actual ordinances uh I think it's important that we preserve you know the the Public's right to Traverse the beach I think it's important that the hotels are able to maintain the decorum on the beach and that the the the balance we have of of of that occurring and they may maintain the beach and do what they do is important also but we all have to share the beach and and and all be reasonable um so I don't open a can of worms either but that was what that item was about was get in those deeds and at least making sure we all recognize uh or find the documentation if we need to so I I guess I'll I'll I'll I'm going to withdraw the request to spend the money right now given that we could do the re search okay okay thank you John sure okay item C fees and permits for businesses and construction on the beach that one came about because uh a couple reasons seems like and this would at the at the trade wins meeting the cut meeting there was discussions of what kind of permits were out there for the zipline uh the slide other things I had already started looking into it a while earlier um and I seem to recall being told early on that for the zipline for instance that there was only a d permit that was necessary um and then during the meeting there was mentioned that there was a BTR uh which um seemed to comfort uh the City commissioners at the time but a BTR is a business tax receipt which means that you have a license to run a business for the year uh it's a fee of 20 or $60 or whatever for the year um and has nothing to do with a permission to build something of course it may be a temporary structure um and and I'm not saying that I have conclusion on this because I'm still battling back and forth on my foyer request to even get this information uh most recently I was told I need to pay a fee uh for my request to get the btrs and permits uh for the btrs and permits between uh upam and the county park um but what I'm trying to understand is are we leaving are we really giving away way too much and and at a time when we're talking about the bed tax going towards Tropicana Field and other things where later on when we need money for Beach re nourishment again will there be any money left in the in the fund so do we need to start thinking about are we going to have enough money to preserve the beach when we need it um you know you go to a hotel and you pay a resort fee could be $18 $20 a night per room or maybe it's even per person that's been a while since I've stayed in the local hotel here um and when I got the btrs because one time I did get the btrs uh the business tax receipt one hotel one property for all of the gabanes pay $60 a year not per chair not per day $60 per year for all of the chairs that was what goes to the city so I mean they make that on two chairs in the day and and the city gets that for the year for all the chairs on the lot and of course if it's five Lots put together maybe it's going to be $60 for all of them um but so when I look at that I'm going so what what should the city be getting now you know should it you know maybe it should be a condition to time of conditional use that you would try to introduce something like that um you know other people have said to me now it should be done in an ordinance I think it's harder to do it in an ordinance than a conditional use but you know at some stage the question is should the city be trying to put some fees in somewhere or you know and again is it because you know who owns it uh or what is it um you know or or or or am I wrong I mean I'm I'm I'm and I'm just saying you know should there be some sort of rainy de rainy day fund being created to protect the beach to make sure that the beach survives if there's a problem um you know this is not TR I'm not just I'm not just saying hey let's just tax let's just tax for that the sake of taxing I'm saying should there be a way to make sure that we have money to preserve the beach as as you know this is this is not about the beds this is about the money that's actually being you know for the beach um so and maybe I'm wrong what what what drilling mean paid but so far the only information I got was the BTR uh and it only came about because of this permitting thing and um uh you know and I'm also wondering about the permits because you know then the zipline just moved and I'm wondering like so can you know from what I can tell I guess everyone can put a zipline behind their house because you don't need a permit uh you only need a DP permit you know and and can and and now can all the hotels just put anything anywhere they want on the beach as long as they get the DP permit and so is this going to happen everywhere you know and or do we need to make sure in our ordinances we start making sure that we don't you know don't put them everywhere and you know I originally was thinking that you know as long as you we carved out you know volleyballs Nets and you know courts and zip lines and slides from the amount of space a hotel took to say okay this is how much space you're taking whether you use it for Banas or yourself or whatever is fine you have this much space you know use it as you see fit we're fine but now when I see a hotel adding 600 rooms and and if they fill it with slides and and other things all those people are just going to go elsewhere on the beach and then that's not then we then we're still going to have a problem because then the other parts of the beach and the other hotels are going to go hey but now all those all those people went to the county park and now all those County Park people are going to go over here and the beach is going to have an overcrowding problem so that that solution that I thought we had for our ordinance before isn't going to work because now now you can't just say yeah you can fill the beach with everything else and you don't have to enough have enough Cabanas for everybody in your hotel because you really do have to have enough room for all your guests because your guests are otherwise going to start overflowing to the other parts of the beach so it it so this is where the fees and permits for the business business a construction on the Beach come come up how much construction do you allow behind the beach behind the hotels you know maybe it's an ordinance question um it it's basically just to make sure that everything stays sort of behind the property and the people stay behind the property in in a in a way that's fair to the neighboring properties that's that's my purpose in raising the issue okay do you raise the issue all right I would just say I don't know if that's the domain of this committee uh for some of that I think fees and permits and all that um and where we're at is and Jennifer and I know Matthew's not here but Jennifer I don't know if I can't see her I don't know if if um you know the line between what's in an ordinance and what's in a cup U that's not set by us but I do believe that we have input into the beach ordinance and I know that's going to be talked about next and we're going to go through that where we can have that conversation again I believe there's going to be a workshop of what what goes in a beach ordinance and what's going in a cup but a cup I don't believe and we just had the conversation is the boundaries of this um committee now we can talk to our members about that but I I just don't you know in our mission of prote you know Dune protection and maintenance and renourishment um short of the the beach well no we're not just Doom protection we're Beach protection yes so but but the who does a volleyball court wear and and all of that that which should be in a beach ordinance or in a cup and I don't know if we have domain over cup so I do believe we have it in in a beach ordinance and we're going to have that process coming up soon right and we should be vocal in that right so that's that's why you know yeah that's why I'm raising because we have to think about what we want to accomplish I mean the ordinance is is the logistics of you know writing our writing it down but what we have to figure out is what you know what's the direction how what do we want to accomplish like and as you'll prepare for that Workshop we'll all prepare the the Commissioners will prepare and we'll yeah we'll have that discussion there so anyway think that maybe it's just some food for thought do we you know we maybe we need to figure out some fees or or permits or something to protect the beach because one of the ways to protect the beach might be to have some sort of Nest Egg maybe um I don't know I'll just throw it out there actually I do have a public comment on this I don't know if you're ready to hear that um I have Linda boura hi Linda hi Linda bour um 7100 CET way I am a member of the library Advisory board but I'm not I'm representing myself and I am a former member of the beach stewardship committee thank you for being a library board meeting or member um I live at the very North End of upam beach in Envoy Point um my husband is one of the people that um takes care of the Beach Garden back there The Secret Garden Secret Garden it's no longer a secret it's all over Tik Tock and everywhere else and that's part of the problem um a lot of the businesses ties into what you were saying and I was hoping you could look at this for the beach uh stewardship rules um you know they're making lots of money off of our little section of the beach down there there's there's a lot of happy occasions that happen down there we have um weddings we have proposals we have baby reveals we have family pictures it's constant and it's all the time on the weekend but every day there's there was a nice little family photo session Monday night that was beautiful aako keeps me informed of the wedding permits so we can be prepared but people will pop up so we had a um weekend two weeks ago May 4th where we had two weddings two proposals and a photography school that comes out probably three or four times a year and they had 30 people with with them and you can see here they set up a tent they had photographers over here you have a proposal going on um there was like I said two other weddings another wedding moved and none of those weddings were permitted um but they set up tents they set up changing rooms they're occupying the entire Beach um this was one of the weddings that went on here and you can just see how spread out there's the other wedding over there and they just spread out but these people bring alcohol the beach glass to the beach um several of the lately it's been tiki torches we had a proposal last um the that weekend where they set off fireworks when the girl said yes and um the tiki tortures really concerned me because they they come up quite often lately it's it's been a routine and and iako checked with the Fire Marshall and they're not considered an open flame but we have kids running around out on the beach all over and they run into things and and it's a little bit of a to me a little bit of a s there's another proposal this was a dinner that was set up last week this was before they set up their 30 te tiing torches and this is the walkway out of our thing so you can see that they blocked off the walkway um to get to occupy and this group um there's their whole setup but that's what they brought with them so and this is a a commercial company that is setting up a venue for them at cost to them but they pay nothing because they didn't get a permit from the city they pay nothing to use the beach and they bring in things that are not legal so that is our concern there there's so many happy things that go on out there that that don't infringe on other people's rights that are respectful of the beach people clean up but then we have more and more of these and it seems like uh everybody the level of proposals or different things are increasing to the point where it's like the bachelor finale type of thing so I just want to make you aware of it and ask that you look at um restricting some of these type of things and maybe set up a permit system thank you very much for your time thank you Linda ioka what would you want someone to do when they saw something like that occur so Linda did contact me um that weekend that she said we've there were four two proposals two weddings going on I actually only pered one wedding out of those so it is based on honesty I mean they they know that there's a wedding Pro permit process in place they should contact me I permit the wedding they pay the fee but if nobody reaches out to me I'm not standing out on the beach to watch that to notice that the that's why I let Linda know I've only permitted one this weekend and there's three going on then you know that's an issue and um as far as the picnics going on there we have picnics going on all along the beach this is part of the problem with picnics yoga classes any kind of solicitation Fitness classes going on on the beach right that at this point in time until a beach ordinance is I mean the case of alcohol though looks like a pretty overt yeah so I suggested contact the the sheriff's department and I hope they came out Linda did they they did and they handled that and what was their response did they make them remove the alcohol um they asked them to remove it and they did take a wagon back up and walk it back out okay that in itself may stop a lot that whole I mean for next time because who wants to do their wedding without a without alcohol I think in the new beach ordinance and Jennifer is not here to keep me honest but you might from your past that commercial and there's a letter G here is commercial operations we discuss in that the draft in the proposed Beach ordinances um commercial operations what needs to be permanent but I think also in that Workshop we need to discuss um enforcement and code enforcement and what could we be doing differently U to drive more enforcement um in that so it's one thing to set rules it's another one to make sure they're being enforced um to no that's true and that that's always been like a sign you can put a sign up but no one's going to enforce it people are going to follow the sign so we have to think about enforcement when we have the conversation about the beach ordinance which I do know that the drafts I've seen has different types of commercial operations requiring permits and if it's on private property permission of the the the owners of that private property before a permit would be given so I do know that's in uh discussions now and in in being considered for the new beach ordinance and I if anyone's interested in that please show up for the conversation about the the new beach ordinance the updated Beach ordinance that's being worked on all right item D sarcasm threat to St beat Beach I put this one on there too because I've been reading about the millions of dollars that it's cost some beaches for his for Courtesy do we want to do him while he's here you want to move Brandon up yeah do you want to do Brandon while he's here or Brandon have you got time okay before you start I just wanted to congratulate you on employee of the quarter oh thank you that he received last night great job my all of my interactions with you have been fantastic and keep up everything you're doing for our wonderful City and Beach thank you okay move to item K better K I think I added this one on and it and you might have been here when it came up before it's just understanding when we um when the commission approves a a conditional use permit what are the standards and what are the things we're asking or making a development do to improve the Dune system and then I don't know if you could answer this what is then what will be done to make sure that they don't destroy the beautiful Resto you know the Dune restoration that they do so we have fairly limited references in our code to Dun restoration there is a reference in the comp plan for the new developments that they need to restore the dunes they need to install a dune where there isn't one present currently um both of the conditional use permits that were approved recently will need to do that as part of their development in terms of maintenance and the standards for the Dune them itself um that's all handled through the FTE they have administrative requirements for those Dunes once the Dune is approved once FD is signed off on its uh development it goes into the maintenance phase and they do have to recertify with that s year um if there's a storm that wipes out part of the Dune they need to have a plan in place within I believe it's two weeks afterward to begin the restoration of that Dune um so that is handled it's just handled by the state it's not through the city does that happen at the cccl L line SE um seword or does that happen um where does the state I I my guess is the state does it at the cccl line and what they need to do and then the city if anything would be um landward or east in our case east of that that's that's my understanding I know that both of the recent projects at least the dunes will be restored uh seword of the cccl okay but uh there's no at least in our code do we maybe it's a Florida Department of Environmental Protection to learn what are they going to make them do um some I've heard you know they're they're going to have to put up an 8 foot Dune well if they put up an 8 foot Dune they're then they're going to have to do a walkover to get over the8 put Dune where people are going to walk over and then get rid of the Dune right the designs any guidance that I I don't know all of their technical standards that's something I could definitely pull and send off to you um in terms of the new Dune designs for the two projects I mentioned I it's a mixture um there are some walkovers one I believe has a cut through there was a renovation recently behind the Breen Ridge um where they're doing a planting plan uh with limited grading so that will form the rear portion of the Dune and there might be some Restoration in front of it we haven't seen a final plan for that yet so I'm not sure of all the details but it will go to the FD and I can I can pull those technical standards to send off to you when yeah when you have a chance it would just be interesting because this is one of the few times that we can insert you know through a cup right which like that but from a beach when I was getting up before making sure U is there an opportunity for us as a city to add um standards and make sure that they keep those standards up to um keep that Dune in place because as we discussed at the very beginning of this Dunes keep sand sand keep beaches um happy people not sad people uh you missed that earlier today but uh whatever whatever we can do to and encourage that Dune development is is a good thing yeah typically like like with anything else with FEMA and other standards It's usually the state adopts the the minimum standard and um in some cases it's encouraged for cities to adopt higher standards we could take a look into that okay I got a couple questions and and tell and if I deviate too much for the agenda just just feel free to stop me first of all congratulations on your award yesterday you certainly deserve it I I just was looking at each people on all the Committees and notice you're you're you're the lison for multiple committees not even just the planning board I was very impressed so I don't know how you have enough time in your day to do everything um the the Beach Walk um goes along the cccl as I understand it correct yet that's also where the dunes are so how does how do those two reconcile well for one of the projects the dunes would be restored see for the um for the serata project where there would be the full restoration that would be seaword of the Dune uh the beachwalk it hasn't been designed there's been nothing permited yet we haven't even been given the notice to proceed on it um so that's something that needs to be dealt with at that point in time with the with the other project with the trade wins um again it's it's a very conceptual stage at this point it's just something that was added on to the plan to as a reference it it may waver in and out of the Coastal Construction Control line it's it's just not clear at this point was I'm trying to pick picture it because you know I'm you know I was just at the PCI meeting for instance and so I'm just trying to picture like if I would if we would want to have the Beach Walk go all the way to PCI because there you have like the volleyball and I mean I I have to think that part of the vision might have been to have it go all the way all the way to PCI but then you're just dumping people over at Silver Sands although that's actually where the accessway is that's where the big the biggest access way used to be so that probably was the vision but then I'm thinking so is that you know where would I'm trying to Envision where that Beach Walk would be in relation to the the dunes and and would it be then Meandering across I'm trying to picture what you know how the dunes and the walk right what this comp plan was even thinking I I understand we'll we'll we'll have a conceptual plan to to take to the city commission if this is something that the fdp even allows to move forward this is a very early stage it was just really the the purpose of the conditions in the development approvals were to make sure that we had those easements secured if this is something that moved forward we just need to make sure that we're not retroactively trying to obtain easements we wanted to have those moving forward when the conversation begins and and then I was reading something somewhere that mentioned that periodically we can uh they uh the cccl is supposed to be revised and I was hearing that one of the issues for instance with getting these easements was that the CCL runs through like the pool of like some one of the properties is there any I don't know when the schedule is if there any way that we could get the CCL to move so it wouldn't be going through a pool so that maybe then we could get the Army Corp to be more Cooperative well the city used to actually have a stricter uh Coastal Construction Control line I think that lasted until the mid 2000s the current line is the state line it can only be changed by the state we could potentially have them comment on that but um it's it's maintained by them and this is the one I'm not sure is it you know and this really meant be in your area but um we do all this beach filling you re nourishment we bring sand in but when it comes time to raise a seaw wall on the other side of the island they say that we not allowed to back fill because it's filling a flood zone but we fill on the other side of the island so how is it we can bring in dirt or fill on one side of the island but not the other because it certainly makes it harder to be resilient if you if you can only fill one side well partial fill may be permitted I'm not sure off hand but I do know that Phill is typically prohibited in the vzone um which is most of the large resort districts you know the back half of most properties um it the limited amount of fill is you allowed for drainage and Landscaping but that it it goes through a more intense process than we would see elsewhere in the city so you can't do it it's just it's just more no structural fail but it can be used for landscaping and drainage limited drainage purp you can do who sets the who who say no fill behind a sea wall is that the D or is that the city um it's based on the flood zone and that's a that's a National Standard so so it seems to come and go but it's just sort of like yeah that's not clear it's not clear that you can't do it but but sometimes it gets thrown around and that's why I'm sort of asking okay thank you thank you um thank you Brandon thank you good yep great work okay let's go back to the sargassum issue number D um so I've heard that it's millions of dollars to remove sarasam um there's been other techniques um to um to try to enclose it um I did read recently I guess it was the city Commission meeting for yesterday that they have a emergency company to to to take care of certain emergencies I don't know maybe if this was one of them but I was just wondering if we have an action plan if ssum hits this beach because it you know obviously would destroy this economy and this beach um it you know makes the beach unusable and smells horrible and um is overwhelming and kills the The Aquatic Life and is you know devastating so when it's when it comes it can't be stopped really um so my understanding is heras I think it affects the east coast of Florida obviously more than it do come into the golf fortunately noted but there is the potential for it to come here and unless it's really overwhelming you know I I think we can make the um the similarity to red tide right depositing on our beach if it becomes so overbearing and smells Etc I you know we do clean it up and remove it um but my understanding is we try to leave things as natural as possible it is actually a source of nutrition and food for birds and things like that if it's a little bit on the beach and doesn't start rotting so um when it comes to beach cleanups nothing is picked up that is of natural state only trash is picked up but if there's wood if there's you know seaweed and stuff all of that is left to Decay naturally or whatever yeah I mean I mean hotels or whatever are welcome to rake up that wood or whatever themselves though if they wish um that's raking with a raking mechanical equipment not not mechanically okay they want to pick it up by hand the L is protected true so is that correctly say it's a source of food for birds and stuff like that so we try to leave everything a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of food there and it's naturally occurring I just want to you know I in the city did an exemplary job when there was the red tide um right so I don't think there's a formal plan in place but I mean if it becomes overbearing like I would say like the red tide does then we have to go pick it up yeah I think okay otherwise it just becomes unpleasant for anybody that goes to the beach right yeah thanks Alo okay thank you okay item e Beach ordinance status update is Jennifer here do we have Jennifer oh she stepped out again okay and did I understand that Mike is not going to be here yeah that's correct so I have an update from him but on email and we got the and want to just skip EF till Jennifer's back and then go to G right now that sounds like a good idea commercial operations on the beach yeah I think it's very I did not add it but I think it's very similar to fees and permits and businesses I think it's the same it was actually submitted by um member Welch and he it was specifically regarding um the Zamora and their Cabana cavanas on the beach you know Zamora doesn't actually have beach access right however they do Supply cavanas to their guests and they're walking over private property and placing a few umbrellas on the beach for their guests I did speak with Edwin the Cabana person the other day on the beach and asked them what the arrangement was and and I believe the Zamora has reached some sort of agreement with the property owner that allows them to walk through their property and put a few Cabanas it's a very restricted small area that they can put their Cabanas out there but which so I first I'll say I'm conflicted I'm on the board of the Don cazar property owner Corporation who actually owns that property and we're not voting um and and you know uh I think it should be covered in the greater Beach ordinances um about permit and uses and if it's on private property the property owner needs to um give permission of that commercial activity on private property um I know that is there no agreement there is no agreement um there's a legal matter in in process that I'm not going to speak about but they're they're um there is conflict um and there's a legal matter covering that so there is um permission from the owners has not been given to that commercial operation to do that so but from the city's perspective that really doesn't involve the city because it is private property so yes and they don't require at this time in the beach ordinance they don't require a permit so it's A Private Matter yeah let me ask you this because this this came up at the PCI meeting you know PCI has a cabana um Zone and it says even right in the in our comprehensive plan or Land Development code that you know Cabana can't be within 75 ft of a residential area uh when it when when the um district is next to a residential area and then someone said hey but your chairs are right up to the property line of our condos and they said well that's not our Cabana Zone well because a caban zone is where you sell alcohol correct so what the hotel is doing is they have the area where they sell alcohol but then they have the area where they rent chairs so actually I wish jennif was here for this part but they're renting chairs anywhere on their property or maybe they're even giving away chairs anywhere on the beach so can anyone give put chairs anywhere on the beach I mean I know I can bring my chair anywhere on the beach at least any well maybe not anywhere on the beach um but so in a way is just someone from the Zamora carrying their own chair to somewhere they could go you know what I'm getting at that is is is is there something like that where people are just carrying chairs anywhere like you know can these maybe it's part of the ordinance again well going back to the PCI that is their property their Cabana zone is stipulated to begin 75 ft like you say so that's where they serve alcohol from that is still our property that extra area on the side so they're free to put Cabanas there they just can't sell alcohol there right right so then the BTR if they're if they're renting the chairs the BTR would need to cover those chairs if they're renting the chairs but which it's for their guests right so yes that is how it operates yeah um then purpose of that is because if they were to leave that area blank or empty the the public sees a void and then the public wants to go ahead and set up all of their equipment there too so it's also a means of identifying where the PCI property is and that the public should really be in front of their property and not encourage upon the PCI property okay that's the intent that's there but as far as Zamora goes I mean they don't own any beachfront property so I don't know the situation but you were told that there was an agreement or something yeah but that's only coming from the person that's doing okay I wouldn't take that for I would take this information as more accurate but as we have a conversation of on the beach ordinance we need to make sure we think through commercial what commercial operations are the beach um and that uh whatever permits are required um are included in that use as well as do they have use rent use rights to the property that they're performing the operation on okay all right I'm looking at the agenda here Mike was actually going to be here too for the walkover so can are we just going to no I have the update on from I have an update all right so as far as the report on the beach re nourishment activities um Mike did provide us with a link to pelis County I have given you the copy of the latest printed off the website updated it as of yesterday because we know the dates have been changing and when that's due to commence um dredging is now set to commence June 3rd this link is also provided on our City website so but it's essentially the same information okay okay um so that should really be the place to go to about what's happening with with regards to renourishment um this is did you have some questions yeah the question I had is I heard there used to be really fun place to go behind Shell Key that got blocked off would this open that up again I believe that's the intention to widen it and make it more because it's just filling in isn't it sh's getting the Grand Canal and then the other thing is in the same way that all of this passag Grill Sand filled in that area I noticed that um uh blind pass is impassible um uh for some boats now and um that's pretty obviously from upen Beach so how do we get the ball rolling no what well let me just um I mean I hit bottom and I was didn't even make it to uh blind pass um so so it's pretty clear to me that through a storm or whatever that the sand is way higher than it used to be um and I'm pretty sure where it came from so you know I'm thinking that upam upam beach has gone off to Blind pass you know outside of blind pass for whatever reason that sand came from somewhere and it's sorry oh I don't want to give it back to them okay okay you think it came from there all right um so we have so we have new sand for we have new sand for upam yeah the the where we live is very Dynamic long short drift all the sand always goes the same way always goes the same way at in South okay anyway the blind pass is is is pretty much loaded and uh yeah so maybe that's on the wish list of things to accomplish down the line but this is the greater urgency I think so I'll read what Mike Clark has told us with regards to updates um during phase one because you know this is being broken up into phase one and phase two phase two is the Army Corps of Engineers project the the county side is Phase One and particularly this re yes right so during phase one the beach will be closed from 1st to 8th Avenues including the fishing pier during phase two the phase one beach and fishing peer will be reopened and and and the beach from 8th to 22nd will be closed okay it is Turtle nesting and shorebird Seasons so specific protection measures are in place during the project the County Commission will hear and vote on approval of the cost of the phase two full nourishment on May 21st pending Army Corps of Engineers permit approval which is expected a full nourishment will be approved with completion sometime around September and October okay that's all the information we have about renourishment and then if we're going to skip to the Dune walkovers right he says the Dune walkovers on 4th 6th and 7th are currently on hold until the nourishment is completed there are no other projects planned for the beach at this time okay well that Mak sense yeah okay and Jennifer's not here John you or Jay are you not was that one of your that was not me that was you that was not me J no the other John and we we V it it um so I added this and this came from uh just some experience I had iaka did a a nice drive I got on her cart and we went up and down I did a ride along with um the sheriff on our beach for in a morning up and down and of course I walk it quite a bit and one of the U common denominators you see is a lot of people not knowing the code I I say know the code um or ignoring it that's why I I resonated um Lisa with your idea of how how do we get more awareness um across all Beach users um on The Good the things they can do and the things they shouldn't do and um I don't want to be Debbie Downer and be the the fun police but there are just some Basics and how do we have a consistent message across all you know the signage across the hotels um that you know signage in there no dogs uh no no alcohol unless you're in certain areas no glass um stay off the dunes fill in the holes you know just the basics that we've hit there how do we do this and um I spend a little bit of time out west skiing and I've seen you know different Resort towns do a kind of joint campaign of know the ski code you know so I'm stealing shamelessly from what I've seen before but it's a common set of rules communicated in a common way across the not just the ski resorts but the hotels and some of the VB of know the code and it's really a a city driven campaign of of that and that's really the idea is how do we drive more awareness I think Beach ambassadors are a good idea I know sea turtle try and do that but what a Consolidated effort from the city across all the stakeholders um work as I've seen it work in other types of activity not beach but ski I've seen that in several different ski towns do the same thing so that's really the the concept and it's you know the problem we're trying to solve is quite easy is get people to understand what you should be doing and what you shouldn't be doing so this discussion had come up several stewardship meetings before where we discussed wanting to get our how do we get our message across and conjunction with the chamber Robin and we did produce those cards that you have in front of you yep right and those were distributed to every possible business hotel along the beach here um that was the summary I mean you could add a list 10 foot long of things that you can't do on the beach but they tried to summarize it um the commonality there between all the beaches and that was the effort that was produced for that but a further campaign something larger and bigger um you know we do have a safety campaign that's coming up here about how to cross to walk to the beach safely um you know I don't know if that would be the as far as no dogs on the beach again the hotels are aware and I've had discussions with the hotels that while they may be a friendly dog friendly hotel our beach is not dog friendly unless they go to dog beach around the side so yeah spring break aside in my ride along with the sheriff that's the number one issue is dogs on the beach which we need to address dogs on the beach like that but we should also celebrate that it's not crime or drugs or anything else right so I I take it both ways we still need to get dogs off off the beach right and there's a this the DET not a deterrent but there is a a stumbling block when it comes to dogs on the beach because every you know the service dog issue um yeah so that's where our difficult unless the state really defines what we can do and what we can ask for in terms of proof for these things it makes it extremely difficult to enforce have we been able to address the other side of that also where some hotels may have in the past been advertising that they were dog friendly hotels they are dog and and not warning you know we're a beach front hotel and we're dog friendly and not making clear on their website that the dogs were not allowed on the beach I think at one point you would Express that concern on right so as you know the most of the violations are people that I've find well there's two there's the residents that know better that completely ignore it or there's the visitor that comes with their dog and that is not made aware by the hotel that the friend the beach is not for their dog um so I have as you know I attend hotelier meetings and I did mention it to them that you know the distinction here they need to make their guests aware that the beach is not done for the guest was entitled because they didn't find out till they got to the hotel right yeah you we're drilling down on one of the issues of the code and it's an important one uh but it you know stepping back in the is there what I've seen other cities do um in doing a unified camp campaign and advertising and constant sign you know signage and get the hotels to put up the same sign and you know what is the the same message okay something to consider uh from a from a you know at every walkover there is a huge sign that lists no alcohol no dogs no I at every walkover we have a sign there I would um say that nobody I've been walking them and some of them unfortunately need some maintenance um and a new sign put up uh but I do yeah and then gets back to does signs change Behavior but it's you getting a campaign to drive it or just because sign doesn't change Behavior doesn't mean we shouldn't think of new ones and the beach ambassador program that was talked about before is a new idea that I think is something we should consider I would put my efforts behind I have more faith in that's ambassador program being more effective especially if they can be out there on the beach yep more regularly yeah yep so that's where I put my efforts sport in to get that message across okay thank you well I did rece the other John go ahead sorry I did receive another speaker card from Cindy Perry sea level rise I don't know if you want to hear this now which item uh she just wrote C rise go ahead s it go ahead I just wanted to make you aware John you were asking about the fill issue um and even as we speak right now Treasure Island is having a meeting called Elevate Treasure Island and I I don't is it possible to oh it doesn't show anything um I I'll read it to you what they have is a whole thing on sea level rise and part of what's in there is they have a thing called terrain modification and terrain modification is the purposeful inclusion of Phil to elevate the ground beneath and around single family commercial and public infrastructure projects by altering the physical terrain of our city over time we can reduce the impacts that sea level rise will have on our daily lives historically fill material has not been permitted within the city the transition away from no fill policies requires a strategic approach to how fill is to be used and then they have this terrain modification manual um I know the meeting that Treasure Island is having today is geared for engineers contractors I mean basically they're trying to prep the city for the future um I'm not aware of St Pete Beach having a similar thing but I know that this meeting is recorded and will be viewable later great so I don't know the content but I think this whole issue around Phil needs to be Revisited it's kind of crazy to raise your seaw wall and not put anything behind it um you're just making a bathtub or I don't know what you're doing so um I think it would be useful to look at what Treasure Island is doing and start getting sea level rise onto our agenda thank you yeah in any situation when the water's Rising you normally try to get up above it thank you Cindy thanks for sharing that that's great y there was a conversation at last night's commission meeting about resiliency and um getting a more focused um exactly set of activities for the city uh for the town on resiliency and one of the ideas was actually hiring somebody their full-time job would be resiliency um I personally agree with that um but I know it's being talked about more broadly yeah good thanks thank you okay John this John back to you again on the CO's giveaway yeah this is um just a public announcement um if you didn't know that pelis County will actually give you native plants to U uh M uh native plant material to place within your Dunes be it public or private it's at no cost all you have to do is show them where where you want to put it they'll come and make sure that it's appropriate and then they will actually deliver to you seots um and Co primarily but if you already have good coverage there you can have a conversation with them to give you different types of native plants that will help grow deep and across to keep that sand in place um I just found out about it not too long ago I'm actually working with devb and dun savers on public property um to find places to to put new things there but it's open to everyone so if you have um property or if you know somebody that lives on the beach that wants to keep water off their property um this is the way to do it is to plant um Native Doom friendly plants so please pass the word okay all right iako you could help me with this I think we've completed everything that we can today what do you think Jennifer's coming back yeah I've asked her to come see if she's available I'm not sure if she's in my meeting or so um but maybe I can comment on on the shark fishing yes which we we had um situation they're called landbased Shark Fishing Company you can hire them to fish off the beach at night and they were found here in pasag and the remnants of it were they use uh Rays as as bait so there were cut up Rays on on the beach that was evidence there and they left their Hatchet we saw the rants of and some pictures were forwarded to me of them doing this so um I believe Jennifer um and by the way this company there are so many loopholes that they're actually permitted they claimed to be by FWC but um Dan you said that you've checked with FWC and there are certain conditions that they were absolutely absolutely and what they what they are you're to avoid shark fishing on a crowded Beach or during times of high traffic times of the day that's and avoid shark fishing near swimmers or popular swimming area and they were set up right on passag grill people were swimming it seemed like they were waiting for something but it was all heavy duty Rigs and um it I think they had 10 chairs out there five or six people waiting right for that and uh it just really surprised me and uh somebody told me that um it was our commissioner had seen it a week before and it called FWC and they said no it is legal which is true it is legal but there's these kinds of guidelines for them to follow and and I first of all on our beach you're not allowed to be out there at night correct on the public beaches is that true so that would take I think the the language is you cannot be sleeping on the beach the beach yeah okay so you could be shark fishing you could be out on the beach just sitting there but uh on a on a public beach like that especially the day we were out there there were people everywhere yeah it just and they had not gotten a permit from the city is that correct no I mean I don't issue fishing permits at all yeah no but as a commercial operation like if you were doing a yoga class they need to have a permit so therefore if they're doing a fishing so that personal fishing this was current operation not the new beach ordinance oh the old one doesn't have that that's my understanding right that's why the new one that's coming that we're going to spend some time on defining what commercial operation is is important for the ramps have it but not the beach yet but I believe Jennifer did because everybody was so disgusted by it um did get the sheriff's involved and like I said because of all the loopholes there was really nothing that they could be cited on other than yeah you're sisting on the beach you've got your big flag waving there advertising you know your services and and such so I believe that they were possibly sanctioned on or on that so they may not want to come back not a BTR needed either it's a oneoff item right I mean usually the btrs are for Resident businesses located right on the beach so you know in the city so did you have a question about alcohol consumption and and smoking this is from I was wondering about where those items were right now with respect to our ordinance for alcohol consumption alcohol consumption and smoking okay so no alcohol is allowed on the beach unless you're in a cabana area but we hav in Cross the smoking one yet I don't think I think the state had put out that there was no smoking allowed on the it unless it's is it a I thought it was cigar unfiltered unfiltered products can smoke a cigar cigars but it's illegal it's up to the city to en to enforce that it's not a Statewide the state enabled municipalities to except for right cigars unfiltered cigars again that's goes along with alcohol that's extremely difficult MH to enforce I'm driving I tell you I drive along the beach and I can smell all kinds of strange odors where is that coming from exactly I don't know who is it you know well I know that Treasure Island had put one in place and of course what that comes emptying out the little things where you put your cigarette butts before you cross over to the beach so okay are you seeing an issue are you seeing filters still or anything on the beach I talked to some guys that collected garbage just was several years ago and they said the worst thing on the beach with just cigarette butts right so a while back and I I was wondering if you still seen that so I walk up where the benches are you see them all over you see them all over but they're more concentr concentrated by the benches is where I see them but your the the beach maintenance team would have a better use on it they see it every day I don't see an overwhelming evidence of of that I would say plastic cups are more the issue you know alcohol consumptions right trying to enforce that okay and someone mention since you mentioned the plastic cups if we could get all the facilities to have their logo on the cups so you I believe that is part of the conditional use of the the Cabana permits Cabana permits yes that they have to have logos on identifiable logos on their cups so maybe just extending that to the the the beach front hotels but I I believe the beach front hotels have uniquely identifiable cups anyway even if their logos aren't there um but I don't know if it's really an issue but yeah so but you know the paradise grills Also Serve alcohol um they're plastic cups are clear just clear plastic cups so they're everywhere yeah okay and glass it's a written report the beach report and you can see what month is um spring break so yeah thank you for giving us those are great Al they really are see what's going on thank you y do we want to display what the beach report is so that the public can see it um or you know on the on the display or anything or it's in the part of the agenda it's in the agenda it's in the agenda yeah it's in the packet at the back yep um yeah the number of warnings drastically increased in the month of March it's bring break yes for alcohol on the beach 113 alcohol on the beach 26 dogs four off the leash three that's just due to increased presence on the beach them noticing more yeah four sleeping okay do we so even if we don't have um if we don't have Jennifer on the beach ordinance status um I made some notes on on things to think about for the ordinance me a second is that something you could ma as we do the workshop is that something you could send out to us so we could be prepared for it yes that's from an agenda standpoint um we know that's coming that's an interesting point because um at one of the earlier meetings I actually wrote a report to the beach ordinance Workshop and mailed it off and I was chastised by the City attorney or by Matt because he felt that it was a violation of the Sunshine Law even though I said please put this on the record uh then I said well let me present it to everyone and he said that that was not appropriate because then I was presenting and everyone else wasn't doing a presentation um I have a set of slides that I put together where I have photos of the different kinds of problems um that I think we want to think about to try to address you know of like you know here's you know try to get people to think you know cuz like some hotels and these are the kind of things I wanted to try to talk about some hotels have an approach where a chair is bundled with the room so it's free and all the empty chairs sit there other hotels don't and therefore there's very few chairs sitting out there on the beach and it's they only bring out the chairs when someone needs them so you know you one of the complaints is that the the chair some hotels the chairs are sitting out there empty are causing their Gest to go off and sit elsewhere um um because because a lot of them are even charging and then they just have the chair sitting out there they have all these chairs sitting out and they're empty so there's all these different formulas and um having trouble finding my my list but so I have all these slides and I'm thinking of just sending out this email again now you know these slides and just saying you know to the city clerk and just asking them to distributed as you know on the record um because there are a number of I think you know thought-provoking things that people should just consider because we have to rethink things also because things have also you know changed one one of the issues had been that originally thought we thought that there was an ordinance that required every hotel and everyone to bring everything in at night and it turned out that was only on on um city property itself that had to come in at night um and and and and there had been a uh an offer to come up with a formula to figure out how many chairs should really be in each area and I don't think that formula has been developed yet and that still needs to be developed I think for the ordinance um and that's got into that whole discussion I was sort of covering before where you know do you include the volleyball or the you know all these other things or do you just say hey make sure you have enough chairs for your guest um but there's so many other different issues to cover um well and I would suggest at this time given the time that we would want Jenifer and Matt here and I would just suggest we just we're done we are done your attention spans covered the uh covered your covered everything yep okay that's fine that being said this meeting is adjourned thank you thank you very much