##VIDEO ID:EHF34b0XXSE## calling to order the regular meeting of the Stewart City Commission on the 9th of December 2024 the only city commission meeting this month Merry Christmas to all um roll call please mayor Rich here commissioner Clark here commissioner Collins here commissioner giobi here commissioner Reed here the invitation this afternoon will be provided by chaplain Ed skeba from the steuart police department and afterwards will you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance my's M doesn't hear nope no 's M good afternoon Mr mayor council members Mr city manager Mr City attorney and my Chief's back there somewhere he was here a second ago thank you for allowing this to be done here again once again I thank you for allowing the president of presence of the Lord to into these proceedings in the Christian calendar we're in a season of Advent right now and yesterday was the second day of Second Sunday of Advent and the Second Sunday of Advent is about peace and I think that's something we need in this city in this County in this country and around the world right now but a much deeper peace than just the absence of conflict a confidence to know that things will be okay that this country's going in the right direction and everything will be okay it's time to set aside our differences political social whatever differences we may have set them all aside and become one nation under God again and get us going in the right direction let's go before the Lord Our God and our father great creator of the universe you are the ultimate peace you bring us the peace that passes all understanding and we ask for that here at this meeting right now and in our city our County our country and throughout the world there's so much Strife so much conflict all because of human Pride Lord we ask you to help us tame that Pride to put it aside and look for the things that you intended for this creation I thank you for these men and women that are raising their head above the crowd and willing to take leadership for this beautiful city that we live in Lord I ask your blessing on them you give them wisdom and Direction and understanding at this time of year father I thank you for the celebration we're about to have of the arrival of Christ and I also thank you Lord for the celebration for our Jewish brothers and sisters of Hanukkah I wish them a happy Hanukkah we both have a great joyful occasion to look forward to let us do that together let let everyone in this nation in this country and in this city come back together bless us in what we do bless this great meeting today and bless all the proceedings here we thank you and praise you for this in the precious name and in in the words of Jesus peace I give you my peace I bring you not as the world gives but the peace of God Amen please join me now in this Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you thank you thank you um unfortunately I know commissioner Clark is disappointed M Pierre is is unfortunately took ill and will not be able to perform an Arts moment so we go on to the next item which is something we only do once a year Mr Mayor commissioner giobi yes okay we're on to the next session I'm I'm so I would have loved to have heard Lee I'm sorry she's not well I would look to like to make a motion to put commissioner Collins as the next mayor of the city of Stewart for the year 2025 second so we have a a motion by commissioner giobi and a second by commissioner Collins um do we have public comment on this item I you do what you do is there any public comment on this item seeing none any discussion amongst the Commissioners what is a motion that's [Laughter] fast um it's a motion the motion is commissioner Collins be the mayor and he seconded it yes can he second it Chris seconded it he second the motion that he be the mayor yes ma'am and Lee saying he can he shaking his head strange but yeah that was fast my my opinion would be um out of respect to Rich I know you've you got thrown into the mayor position my view would just be to out of traditional protocol typically vice mayor becomes mayor and then you select a new vice mayor which would be after this um that's just my view I mean because otherwise you only have the opportunity to do it for a couple months yeah that's my view also that's just my view and I I understand where people are coming from um um but the mayor currently is not the vice mayor he's the May mayor no he's acting as a mayor because we lost our mayor during the election I understand that but he was never voted in as the mayor he's just an interim acting as the mayor correct but tradition traditionally for two months right yeah and traditionally the the vice mayor becomes mayor traditionally unless uh someone else has seen it otherwise but that's how I've always seen it I mean your your Commissioners elect who they elect to be in the mayor role sort of like in the County happened recently yeah I didn't know I about the secondly I wasn't sure if the person who's nominated for the position can second their for the for the position but if as the attorney for the city you're telling me that that's meets the rules and that's okay it's my opinion that that meets the rules of Robert's Rules of Order any other discussion if not roll call please Madam Kirk commissioner Reed no commissioner Collins yes commissioner Clark no commissioner goobi yes mayor Rich no noil okay we're back to Mayor may I make a motion that um or did you would you like to read we've had a motion and that failed to the next it's failed make to the mayor that commissioner um Campbell serve as our mayor for the next year okay we have a motion by commissioner Clark do we have a second I have no problem second it out of respect uh you know you to serve your full year I might not always agree with you mayor rich on things or my fellow board members up here but I do have respect and I feel you should serve your full year that's my opinion and my stance thank you commissioner Reed we have a motion by commissioner Clark second by commissioner Reid is there any public comment on this item see none discussion amongst the board or already had it I I as out of collegiality I I I respect what um the comment that uh commissioner Reed made further the mayor's position is a ceremonial position and I know that um it's also very important and commissioner Rich was put in to this position because we lost our mayor during the August um election and he was the vice mayor and he stepped up to the plate in fact we really didn't Mr mortell you can correct me we really didn't select a vice mayor sometimes I see my name written down as vice mayor or whatever but I we just kind of he was just filling in the role and I think that it it would be a good thing to give him an opportunity to um act as the mayor for full term uh my com are I I I appreciate your comments being a young a new member of the commission but respecting the tradition of the city that's over 100 years old there's value to that and um it is a very ceremonial Road I think both you and commissioner giobi are realizing how important is that we make the effort to get out into the public and show our faces and so that takes quite a bit of time and it could be difficult for you know someone who has a full-time job certainly so see no other comments May Rich mayor sorry my question would be and I don't know if this is in the charter or Robert's Rules of Order this might be for Mike and Lee um when it comes time for you to pass the gavel though does it always go to the vice mayor or is that your choosing it goes to the vice mayor unless the vice mayor has an interest in the motion yeah gotcha okay or if the vice mayor's not here yeah but you can pass the G to anyone I believe corre procedurally procedurally yes go to taking a step further the city's policy is always that if we get an inquiry from the media that we send we direct them to the mayor first if the mayor's not available we direct them to the vice mayor If the vice mayor is not available then anybody else is available that's where it goes and just from a matter of protocol it kind of goes the same way and I think it's more of an informal process you guys could adopt something different if you you chose but that's what has been going on for years and Mr Mortel Mr Mayor may I say something certainly and and with regard to that too Mr Mortel whoever we select as a mayor for this 25 year um when we do something on the uh at the city of Steward it's the city of Steward and not an individual commissioner or the mayor so if a letter has to go out or something the mayor just doesn't do it or write it or make the phone call we all have to agree that the on behalf of the city the mayor is going to do this or say that unless we have some emergency with the press as Mr mortell just pointed out and usually we even just send some things uh because policy may have been already directed we probably just send them to the city manager to get full clarification or or get the information that has already that's somewhere in the annals of the city that somebody just needs to clarify I don't know if that much that has to do with the procedure of Mayor vice mayor but the the the the the law is that the commission speaks on behalf of the city and therefore any individual commissioner is speaking on their own behalf unless they have been authorized by the commission to speak on behalf of the city or they are repeating something that has been adopted by the Commission in the past that's true yes the mayor speaks for the commission so their personal Viewpoint so procedural wise the mayor passes the gab to the vice mayor but at your choosing you could pass it to somebody else well it would be I can't reach that far Sean I just I just we pres it will be the vice mayor who gets the gavel passed to them but if the vice mayor wasn't present or if the vice mayor had made the motion and then the mayor went to second that motion they couldn't pass the gavel to the vice mayor because they're the motion her so that it would have to go to the next person down the line all right that's all any other comments roll call please Madam Clark commissioner Clark yes commissioner Collins no commissioner giobi yes commissioner Reed yes mayor Rich yes mayor I'd like to make a motion commission commissioner giobi thank you thank you I'd like to make a motion to have commissioner Collins be the vice mayor um for the year 2025 thank you second is there any public comment on this um seeing none any comments by the questions or comments by the Commissioners I yes I do have a comment if we do select um our mayor and our vice mayor today I'll be just wonderful that we now have a mayor and a vice mayor yes it's true it is sort of an odd interregnum there without having the vice mayor and I do believe the order is that commissioner Collins would be vice mayor is that correct we we have the normal rotation yeah yes oh yeah yeah that's right that's true he would be so okay no other comments seeing none roll call please Madam clerk okay mayor Rich yes commissioner Clark yes commissioner giobi yes commissioner Reed yes commissioner Collins yes congratulations unanimous thank you okay no speech yet okay we wait proclamations Mr bagot are you ready uh I don't see any proclamations oh you don't have it's not in the full agenda for you there Service Awards is next on the oh I'm sorry service words right I'm sorry presentation so this is just me right Mary yeah is Mr so for five years of service to the city of Stewart John [Applause] Coleman got a speech too huh John what all right I'll speech it speech spech all right you guys doing a wonderful job up here so my name is John con I work for build maintenance and my boss is John lapadula oh so we have a good little crew of five live and we're trying so hard to get the town the best it looks because it's a lot of work it's a lot of work here and I get you point of thanks opportunity to have the job here and uh continue on five years and thank you for doing such a great job thank you for the good work all right thank you you need your list thanks for coming out John that's probably better easier easier easier makes sense time management [Applause] depart he he has to go Duty he has on duty yeah that's right that's what makes it that's why they show up up it's heavy [Applause] [Music] thank okay V three two one number one Rec good job the rules apply to all of us that's [Applause] right speech spech you got something to say man I'm shocked because he's always got something to say years service utilities and Engineering [Applause] [Applause] Hall tell us about Milton years of service and Engineering [Applause] Jose he'll practice that next time got to practice that no speech was kind of unusual we didn't have any 25 nobody got C in December comments by City commissioners commissioner Reed we'll start with you this evening I just had two things I know uh Mr Stan ofit is it stankovic um I just wanted to see where he was with his building permit maybe from Mike or from Jody I know I think he was expecting a response in like two weeks cuz he had just submitted everything but I was looking for an update on that and also um for the Hamilton Church update um I still had questions on that I didn't know if we could make it just an agenda item for the next meeting in January because I think it's hard you did that you at the you asked us bring January I don't know if it'll be the first or second meeting in January but we were waiting for the ship thing to be concluded and as soon as it was we said we' bring it back in January okay that's all then as it relates to the stankovich um I don't know that he Comm submitted a complete application at this point at development director's telling still hasn't submitted a right yeah isn't he going before the board of magistrates he it's coming up again but he's that's fairly common I know it's been a long process thank you good afternoon uh Jody cougler I'm the development director kovic's uh application has been submitted it was submitted on the last day of when he was supposed to uh obtain the permit he is still in an incompleteness status as of today and he's also going to the Magistrate on the 18th of this month thank you Jody thank you so those are public meetings commissioner Reed you can attend that if you like all right uh are is that all yeah that's it thanks Mr goob um I just wanted to say a happy holiday and a Merry Christmas to all of those here in Stewart and thank you for being involved and coming to the meetings being online sending emails uh I try to answer at least 95% of them uh and I just wanted to thank everyone thank you so much commissioner Collins yes I just wanted to publicly thank Chief tanelli and the Stewart Police Department for their quick response to an incident that took place on Thursday afternoon at my home I wasn't going to discuss this and I haven't with similar previous incidents because they involved my home and my family but now that it's been leaked and made public I will address it publicly with this commission voting on important issues like bright line and the zoning in progress that have financial and long-term complications implications I mean uh individuals feeling disenfranchised from the last election assassination attempts on former presidents uh the stakes are very high lately and it is very important for our elected officials and their families to be safe what is also true is it's important for individuals to be able to voice their concerns about the decisions we're making and this chamber is where that should happen it is not appropriate to drive by the home of public officials with the intent to intimidate repeatedly making slow passes by with your phone hanging out of the window of your car and filming my home from the foot of my driveway with my small children playing um this is not appropriate some people might say you've signed up for this the five of you have signed up for this you are public officials but even if I disagree with you over bright line paying 50% or zoning code we are still human beings up here and I'd like to imagine that if it was the other way around you might feel the same way how would it affect your wife and your children how would you feel having your six-year-old daughter asking you what was is that man doing what would you do how would you respond even the mob does not mess with the wife and kids amen so I'm thankful to our chief and that in the city of Stewart we protect our elected officials not because Commissioners are more important than anybody else but they and their families are at a higher risk due to the nature of the decisions that they make so I don't expect a patrol car to be parked at the foot of my driveway 247 but when there is a Potential Threat like when this individual attempted their third pass to my house and with Chief on speaker phone I confronted this individual by name since he's been commenting at our meetings and asked him pretty obvious questions like what are you doing taking pictures of my house with my kids out front what are you doing at my home what does my family have to do with commission business what are you doing and chief overheard this individual reply because you are messing with my business and my family and acted decisively dispatching police to deescalate and begin investigating the incident so again and I'm thankful for chief our steuart PD Sheriff Snider and the Martin County Sheriff's Department it should not take somebody getting hurt for this kind of thing to be taken seriously and in this instance thankfully to God nobody was so thank you commissioner Clark thank you thanks I'm glad that I don't know what it is but I'm glad that he wasn't refer to I think oh I'm just saying I was just responding to commissioner Collins at I'm glad that he's safe and here and everything is fine okay so miss Leila wasn't here for the Arts moment um today because apparently she's sick but as would Providence would have it I still have my Santa hat from the uh Christmas parade and this is our last meeting for the month and I have a dear friend who has gone through a whole bunch of different things including Alzheimer's and she has gone to her palm tree and taken the barks and she has done artwork with them so I'm going to be giving out little art gifts normally I would give want them pass down yeah I would give Caston noa's chocolate to everybody but these are from Judy these are from Judy fishal you could have done both and uh on this I'm going to get let let Miss let the City attorney get one and I'll get one to Mary later so these are artwork that are done on the little barks of the palm tree and Judy fishal a former math teacher um she does these and they're very exciting I think that if if we get Innovative we can actually probably put a hole through it and you could even use them as um ornaments or something at some point so this is Judy fishal she's a great supporter of our city and of our Autobon and um she lives right off of Palm City Road and she's a very Innovative lady and I just give her credit that I could have something to give to you tonight because of her um creativity and I do um during this holiday time I celebrate Christmas and I celebrate um Quanza which is a a cultural holiday and um a part of that self-determination as well as creativity and other principles and so I am in solidarity with her on her creativity and I appreciate that um I want to say congratulations to our new mayor who will have a term for full term and we'll all be learning and continuing in this process of governing our city as well as our new vice mayor um and I hope that we will will just continue with our traditions of collegiality and um continue to make our city shine and for each of us to work together to represent our city and to just be um good leaders I think skeba uh sorry Reverend skeba said it well when he said that you know he's praying for us as leaders in the community so congratulations commissioner Collins and uh vice mayor and commissioner Rich mayor congratulations thank you [Applause] commissioner um I so I would like to Echo your remarks concerning collegiality and how important it is uh that we show difference and courtesy to each other up here because at this time of year we spend a lot of time together in front of the community and it's important that we show to them that we can get along uh and you know we represent the best interest of the city and we all share the best our best hopes for the city so we all went on the little TIY taxi which is right off the dock here which it seems corny but if you haven't done it it's absolutely adorable it is so much fun and I'm someone who has spent his entire life on the water in boats here Stewart and even I enjoy that so please take advantage of that it's um that was very enjoyable even on a very windy night then I was very glad to see did all of the Commissioners show up at the Christmas tree lightings I believe we were all there right yes I wasn't there commissioner Reed commissioner Reed was not there okay I'm sorry commissioner Reed but I could not believe how many families and young children there are in this community I don't think people UND I'm shocked by it how many young children are in this community now and it's it's delightful absolutely and then of course we did the Christmas parade which is a remarkable effort that the chief and the city pulls off and pulls off safely and again there're just so many families and children lining the side it's you know people try to describe this as a older community boy it we I just don't see that much evidence of it during these events so in that context uh the day after the Christmas breid I got a phone call unfortunately from Dr Singh who Heads Cleveland Clinic and he I thank him for this but he had to convey the bab news that they are closing the delivery Center here at North and so all the deliveries are now going to have to go up to tradition uh they're just and my I mention he says there just isn't the demand there so it doesn't make Financial sense but uh he's been in contact with Samantha suffit at Healthy Start and he they are making an effort to make sure those services are available to the city one of the things he mentioned was one of the problems they're having is finding affordable housing for the workers and on Saturday commissioner giobi and I went to the opening of rentech which is a Mercedes custom customization facility it's the largest in the United States I had no idea and it was either the first or second thing he said to us commissioner Joby was yes big problem Staffing was lack of Workforce housing so uh two separate very prominent members of our business Community hiring skilled workers good jobs and perhaps this is a problem we can look to address in the future he also mentioned skilled workers that was a difficult situation too yeah so I had mentioned to him maybe there was something they can do in conjunction with the city school system project lift project lift is I think a perfect fit and so other than that just I hope we all have safe holidays um comments by city manager Mr mortell um I'm going to keep it brief uh I just want to mentioned this is the um only meeting for December so the next city Commission meeting after tonight will be the second Monday of January we will not be having a city commission meeting on the second uh Monday of December this this year or any year um and tonight we'll be adopting obviously the calendar for the following year uh uh and so that's all I've got for tonight I did want to mention there was and we'll talk about it later in the agenda but um I was contacted by a couple of people whose names were withdrawn for application uh for appointment to boards but we'll address that on the agenda item yes mayor well that was brief um with regard to um Dr Singh and closing is there something that we could do as a board maybe a letter seeing as that is that serves our area of maternity that is a very big deal if um I know it's a private company they're going to do what they want with their hospital but formally as a board could we you know write a letter or request that they would consider the needs of this community and the mothers and families well certainly we can and you know this has been brought up before commissioner Collins we've talked about what is the responsibility of the municipality towards Health Care this is not a problem just in Stewart or just in Florida it is healthc care is in crisis from the Viewpoint of the provider from the doctors the nurses um I I would maybe encourage you to speak to him first privately and just to get a sense of you know his thoughts and how his that very very big com big company is operating but if you feel that it can be effective I mean I'm not adverse to L I'm be happy to dra I'd be happy to draft and bring back a letter more of an inquiry in asking you is there anything the city of steuart can do to maintain the uh facility facility in steuart as it is first of all there was a huge expansion of the hospital and when it took place to call it controversial would be an understatement um and um secondly I mean the idea that nobody's birth certificate is going to say steuart Florida anymore seems kind of weird but a big problem is hiring obes and that's because of the Florida Insurance crisis so you know but just as a representative representatives of the humans that live here I think it would be appropriate you know to send that send a letter at least and ask you know if there's something we could do you know if they'd be sure something Mr Mayor commissioner I would also like to have input into that um while we certainly can't tell Cleveland Clinic what to do but they could be have options because what was really important is the prenatal care and that will not be here either so maybe there's something they could do in a mobile basis where people women here in this community would at least have prenatal care even if they had to go out to to tradition for the actual delivery of the baby well Samantha suff is yeah trying to do that with um the mobile mobile Mother m mo mobile machine whatever it is is that part of so I hung up not not part of Cleveland but I hung up health is start I hung up with Dr Singh and I called samanth because we have funded them in the past and he indicated to me that he had off actually offered to Healthy Start that space they're keeping the space vacant hoping that they can return um so we could have Samantha come here and make a presentation you know to how she sees the situation and what level of services she thinks could be provided by her and I mean I don't know Mike the best way to go here um I'm happy to bring back of course it'll be January I don't think that's going to make that big of a difference in the scheme of things but I'll bring back a draft letter from the city for you as a board to review in January as a letter obviously to Dr s at the hospital to see if there's any opportunity for the city to work with them toward rein reinstituting the program thank you thank you but commissioner Joe I would urge you to call Samantha and speak with her because I will yeah right she's terrific yeah there are certainly options there's you know midwives are available I'm sure they're legal in Florida well that's what they're that's what she works with yeah we've had lots of community meetings what's the other one doulas douas yes and that's who's primarily concerned in case they have to transport right that they would have to go to tr St LC right okay great thank you which is not far if you're in pal city right but not the city in in a in an emergency situation where you know a mom is Bing or every one of those minutes is very believe me my family is well aware of that okay any oh can we can I make a motion to agenda to approve the agenda second we have a motion by commissioner Clark and a second by vice mayor Collins for approval of the agenda um any public comment regarding this item no all in favor I think it's a roll call no all in favor I comments from the public on non-agenda items Mr bre bill will you wait to be called please I do have is he the only one no okay Robert Hamilton did we get approval of the agenda or just the consent calendar no we haven't we haven't gotten to the consent calendar yet we haven't gotten to that yet all you did was approve the agenda we approved the agenda though I thought it was the consent calendar which that was part of it I'm sorry Mr Hamilton go ahead good evening everybody a little update on the church uh issues we had a meeting uh with the state of Florida preservation board those ladies excuse me Mr Hamilton can you either speak up or move the thing around I can't the mic isn't doing what it's supposed to do today can you hear me now yeah okay we had our meeting with the state preservation board and the ladies from them uh Department of Commerce and there was Headway made which basically it refers Back to December of 2023 when the city asked for advice from the state and they recommended the recommendations everything had to match and be the same so then time goes on five months later the damage is done I sent an email oan and I sent an email on Friday July 19th 2024 10:17 a.m. to panal and several other people I bring that up because at the meeting yesterday today Miss Gandhi thought it was funny laughing at ogga and I saying that she responded to every email here's the email right here but we can let that go that's just business so then what happens after this letter and everything gets riled up if we want to put it that way to make it easier November 22nd of 2024 the State of Florida again reiterated what they said in 3 but why because o and I filed a complaint with the office of Inspector General and the Florida commerce department they made their recommendation to the city to contact Tallahassee Tallahassee says basically we told you this in December of 23 so more importantly than that we are getting through that and that is the truth but I want to leave you with this to be laughed at I can deal with it but Mr mortell again and again when ogre was trying to speak it was her turn and he didn't like what she was saying so he kept interrupting and interrupting and interrupting and interrupting and interrupting so I kept saying let her speak here's what's really important about this I said why won't you let her speak he said I don't have time well you know what if the city of Stewart took the time in December of 2023 I wouldn't be standing in this room with with a damaged building and I'm sure there's contractors in here like everybody else we have an open door policy come and look at the devastation but more importantly than that we are getting it worked out but all I ask is he Mr Mortel does not have to be indignant be nasty to Mrs Hamilton and keep interrupting and force his abusive power that is an abuse of power in a position to try to shut somebody up that's trying to give information to the State thank you very much thank you Mr Hamilton thank you Mr Hamilton Olga Hamilton I would just like to remind the speakers that you may not refer to any one of us sitting up here individually we all sit here together can you please just direct your remarks to the commission thank you good evening Olga Hamilton uh Southwest uh 311 s Southwest s Street the 1895 Church of Stewart first of all I would like to take opportunity and to thank our local contractors and probably some of them here who came to us when we called to look at the job done by federally approved cdbg contractor Patriot Response Group who is paid by the federal funds under the supervision of Guardian community Resource Management a company hired by the city of Stewart and the company also paid from the federal funds here we have Patriot Response Group and guardian community Resource Management making a big money on the federal funds allocated to the state and when Governor DeSantis awarded the city of Stewart 750,000 they two companies make their money while performing the most destructive shest work and they demand federal funds to be paid to them and I appreciate our local contractor our local representatives of the windows hurricane impact Windows coming to us and telling us guys this is done wrong no they light you they like Mr Jenkins who is certified in the Florida building courot as his States telling C General Contractors don't need permission to cut into homes and cut out the walls along with the structural elements of the building this is unbelievable and when Mr Jenkins write me the contractor and all their parties including the city of steart building department and you think since when the steward building department became a party of the contractor and I'm thinking right now how did it happen that the city of Steward building department issued permit on the installation of oversiz replacement windows that three Windows even could not be installed but I'm happy to hear from the state of uh Florida historic preservation office that's our his hisorical building is potentially eligible for the National Registry but I want to cry because I would like to know it back in December 1st 2023 we would be saving our building we would if we knew about this state historic preservation conditions they would tell contractor no you follow mandate Z new mandates Guardian community resource new we did not Merry Christmas to everyone our Christmas will be with the hols in the walls thank you thank you Mrs [Music] Hamilton I have Albert [Music] Brinkley like to say good evening to you I come up here stand before you all warning some ansers how in the world that you all let a gutter company come in the East Community without the knowledge of the residents of that Community cuz I stand here to say straight out neither one of you all sitting up there would have let that happen in your community you would not we didn't have no knowledge of this gutter company being put in a residential Community where we have to hear this noise every morning now you tell me which one of you all sitting up there would have allow that to happen in your community it only happened in he stward and it's time that you all start paying attention to the east Stewart Community not just downtown we are a part of St not just downtown because you all worried about more downtown than any other part of of stward especially East stward and I would like to see you all come out in Easter Community not with the agenda but just to see the liking that the city is doing to the east Community now I would like to have an answer to that there because basically this gutter company is in my neighbor back yard I have rent down there on several occasion to let them know you all are making too much noise first thing in the morning why did y'all allow that to happen why we need an answer I want an answer cuz we deserve an answer God gave y'all a responsibility to carry out the lord of the land not do what you want to do God gave you a responsibility I keep telling you that over and over cuz I'm telling you something for your own good God gave you a responsibility not to do what you want to do but to do what he put you there to do and I can say you all not doing that cuz we are being overlooked in the easto community and we're tired of it Albert what Street's it on MLK and Central Avenue I'm thinking they was doing some work there I'm seeing the truck next thing I know you don't moved in but we don't have no knowledge of that now you tell me which one of you all would allow that in your resident neither one of you but you allow that to happen in the Eastward Community it's time for y'all to start paying attention to us cuz we are parties to it we're tired of what you all doing to the east community and I would like to know answer to that there CU that is disrespectful to the east Community to allow a gutter company and that's ready in my neighbor backyard literally we have to deal with this no every day and that's disrespectful to the east community and y'all listen to those people you just got through speaking listen to those people thank you they speaking something the truth and I could and I could identify to what they saying Albert I wanted to say one thing is I agree with you not to I know we're not supposed to go back and forth but this is my major contention with those um Parcels that are inside that interior only being allowed to be single family home unless they come in front of us with commission action currently if it's what I'm thinking about looking at Mike's uh map here that's on MLK so that's that Zone commercial so protecting the interior from that kind of a thing happening is why we're doing it's one of the things we're doing within the zoning of progress tonight as well and and and I appreciate that but again I reate that situation that should have never happened because it wouldn't have been it wouldn't happened nowhere else in the city of stood and you all know that it wouldn't have happened nowhere else in the city up stood and that's that's disrespectful to the east Community thank you sir I have Karen Hall yo rudge good evening Karen Hall yosb 1701 Southwest Palm City Road thank you for your service I'm here to update you uh I don't know if you guys know but you finally got an an attorney after me begging for five years and going to the Supreme Court to make sure that mortell wasn't in charge so thank you for that that was in May um I brought something for each one of you this went into the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals today we have been I don't know if you've been updated but the federal court has given us an attorney appointed an attorney for us which is very exciting so um I have something here for each one of you it was what went in uh the filing today and uh thank you she speak and she has an attorney you shouldn't be speaking to her without her attorney President right anyway uh just today after R can I just interrupt you for one moment after I'm sorry just hold on one I don't know what the case is about what is the case about I don't know either she a lawy youa Clark you should be ashamed of yourself what I don't know what speaking to us without your lawyer presence I just I did this before I accepted her to be my lawyer just so I didn't break any rules thank you yes I have no problem okay no problem at all so why don't you all take some time and read what the facts of the case are how you have been snowed by we're not allowed to say Morel but I'm saying Morel and then um I hope everybody has a happy holiday hak also and uh thank you for your service and read this and quit pretending you don't know what it's about thank you thank you Miss RK you have to give to us now I want to just read it let me read it now Mr bre Bill thank you Mark bre Bill 406 Southeast finny Drive Stuart Florida 34996 I moved further out now I'm a six but um I really I had one comment then another comment came up after the fact but the the first comment was or second comment is I'm G say it first is that I don't think any of you I volunteer like the rest of you I don't think any of you should have to be concerned about your family your property or your life or or your well-being being threat and and the fact of the matter is we talk about being uh cognizant of of being respectful of others that includes not picking people out um on the Das to pick on individually that's why we don't allow that and and I think that we all need to do better on that it is our personal stuff we all worry about it it's important to us not saying that but it's we should never have to fear to volunteer and so that's just what I think that um that was my comment the second comment had to do with the conversation relative to the the hospital and U and maternity and I agree 100% that's a major service to lose from Stuart but what about Good Old competition why don't we contact Jupiter hospital and say hey there's a certificate of need here that's not being filled for a maternity Andor and see if they want to come into Stuart and fill that I think they might look at that let's put good old competition to to work here and see if we can get some uh somebody who does want want to be in Stewart anyway that's all I have to say thank you thank I have Lily price Lily price 2574 wind strive Stewart um good evening mayor commissioner Clark and City man mortell I'm here today to express serious concerns regarding a recent incident where my husband was stopped by the full force of the Stuart Police Department simply for driving down a public road I don't know but five Mar vehicles and additional three to four unmarked undercover white vehicles does that sound reasonable to you and with the chief of police involved really is the Public Enemy Number One in this case it seems that the cry for intervention made without cause was followed by an overreaction that misused the force and Authority granted to those in power position of power the incident where a member of our community was stopped by multiple police officers for merely driving down a public road P raises questions about the misuse of resources Authority and the impact of public trust we hear on the news every day of innocent lives taken by accident this incident could have gone sideways luckily it did not I'm terrified as you can tell that I'm I could be surrounded by police from all sides I have children that at some point will be driving one of our registered Vehicles will they be stopped for unjust cause should we as Citizens be concerned for our safety when we drive down city streets the overwhelming response in this instance especially For What appears to be a false red flag with someone who has had the same alarm raised multiple times is deeply troubling it undermines public trust and raises concerns about the proportionality of police responses and situations that do not warrant such escalation I urge the commission to investigate this incident thoroughly and ensure that its commission and law enforcement practices are aligned with the principles of fairness respect and appropriate use of resources this misuse of power mirrors the old age tale of the boy who cried wolf our community deserve to feel safe and confident while going about our daily lives including on our own streets think of the Optics you're all smart people thank you for your attention to this important matter thank you Miss price I have Marcela camper is this on a non-agenda item Miss camper uh surprisingly it is Mayor you know and I I was not going to speak in fact I felt that I did have to congratulate you because of the you know civilized descent that was occurring at the initi at the beginning of the meeting I'm happily surprised by that and then um you know as a followup with with what Miss price said I mean they're my friends um Mr Price is also a business partner I drive down Flamingo Street four times a day because my children go to school in that neighborhood I've never been pulled over by five police cars plus three unmarked cars um there was such an un founded one-sided statement after the civility with which this commission meeting started it was riddled with falsehoods let's call it what it is we had my partner Miss Price's husband a black man you are ridiculous marel I'm not talking you are ridiculous I'm I'm sorry commissioner C if I drove your house if I drove by your house with my filing kids yard you're going to make it a racism issue are you serious Chris Chris are you serious Marcel and I have my time mayor please are you serious this is ridiculous it is clear from what was stated that um a commissioner's power was used to seek direct protection from the chief and then from the sheriff my partner Mrs price husband was here to speak today on the zip issue he is terrified again because it was he was treated like like a mobster right now um so he left he's outside he's sitting in my office I want to say this commission you were doing really good when we started needs to do better we have today effectively suppressed the ability of people that come here to speak publicly because it was mentioned that and he speaks publicly we have effectively suppressed public speech it's a very s day [Music] thank you Mrs cimler I have one more Raj Patel Just a second I mean the sheriff is I mean you're welcome to announce that we're not doing anything right okay fine I'm sorry Mr Patel good afternoon um gentlemen and Madam um I I wasn't going to come here because it's zip has nothing to do with me but I did see what happened to um duet and I'm very concerned about it um I'm going to address Mr Collins because he's addressing I'm sorry indiv you cannot address him specific he's individually addressing the people that are up here talking so I'm going to address it to him you came up to me that day and you accuse me of passing by your house at 9:00 at night in a white Acura and I told you I don't have a white Acura I drive a car that is a lot better than an Acura why did you accuse me of that why did you accuse somebody that looks like me is it because the way I look why did you accuse me of driving past your house when I never been to your house we we we can't let this descend meeting descend to this no but if he's starting it why can't we say it if you have why are you talking to us directly excuse me Patel if you have issues with Mr Collins you have every opportunity to call I just want everybody to know that a gentle gentleman like myself a gentleman like detet price is randomly accused of something did you not accuse me of coming by your house at 9:00 at night yes or no I have multiple of you bright Line crew doing this kind of a thing you can't I don't I feel offended excuse me at my not like that yes excuse me I'm not going to do what excuse want you to do what Mr Patel excuse me okay you were given an option you have the right to sit with the with commissioner Collins and sort this out doesn't take my call well you haven't called me we can certainly make an arrangement commissioner Reed has the decency to take my call okay let me Haven called me this will will not descend a name calling and all of this there are two sides to this story you can meet with commissioner Collins you can put your side onto Facebook this this whole commission is a Circ the we can also be circus like should it only be you that can create pel Mr Patel I'm going to ask you to stand away from the podium we can sort this out in a different way not in this commissioner what do you have to do vice mayor everything because you accuse me of the same commissioner I just want everybody to know Mr Patel Mr Patel I'm sorry we cannot it hurt me the day you told me that it hurt my character but I didn't say anything we're going to have to ask the police to interrupt so if you could wrap it up yeah [Music] mayor I have no more public comments okay moving on um we have a motion for approval of the consent calendar move that we approve the consent calendar which consists of items number four and five which includes the um meeting calendar for 2025 and of course our minut I second the motion so we have a motion by commissioner Clark is second by commissioner goob any public comment on the consent calendar seeing none questions or comments by the Commissioners seeing none all in favor all in favor I I I that's the end of the consent calendar Mr bagot will you read item six for our consideration please absolutely uh resolution number 12422 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Stewart Florida appointing Gemma tvia and Brett Lashley uh as code enforcement magistrates and confirming the terms of appointment providing an effective date and for other purposes uh this is my agenda item and if I may Mr Mayor certainly please proceed um previously we had resolutions uh in years past uh where we have um uh appointed three magistrates uh prior magistrates Wendy WB and Thomas bar were previously approved by resolution but they are no longer interested in in performing that on behalf of the city so we were left with one uh magistrate U Paul nicoletti and at times when he's not available it's been a little difficult so we are we uh brought this resolution with uh two replacement uh alternative magistrates um um I I personally vetted both of them both of them have experience I've uh kind of put their bios attached to the agenda item um I've had an independent recommendation on each of them um and um I I met one of them personally and uh I it was my opinion that they would uh make a good uh magistrates here in the city and so that's why I brought this before you and so that we would be able to continue to have magistrate hearings without having to postpone or delay them because of not having to have an available magistrate just for context Mr B and how many of these meetings were held last year I I can't answer that but roughly every mon yeah probably once a month but well they're scheduled for once a month but they work out so it's probably six okay seven maybe is there a okay the need a motion in a second the threat of the hearing is what causes the matters to work out when they don't have a hearing pending things don't work out as as well and this is they're only paid if they come to a meeting so we're not paying them and they're not a retainer I'd like to make a motion with regard to item number 124 2024 um appointment of the magistrate and if this motion goes through in the discussion I have something that I want to say okay second so okay it's been seconded we have a motion by commissioner Clark and second by vice mayor Collins um is there there any public comment on this item can I say so oh all right go on public Madam clerk do we have any do M Raj yeah about the appointing of the magistrate did we say nicoletti did I hear that name Mr Mr nicoletti has already been appointed yes and so he is in the the the roster so he's the only one we have available now so these are two new alternates because we had three total and the other two have declined to do any further magistrate here in yes all right so thank you very much yeah because you will see Mr nicketti might not have done a good thing so you know the other two will probably be better thank you any other public comment any questions or comments by the commission yes thanks I think uh when Mr Mr uh baggot or City attorney introduced this item he said that he probably was familiar with one of the people I am also familiar with one of the the candidates I don't know the other person but apparently they're both people who've been acting and I know that I read it but I can't remember if when I read it it was a part of just um uh Miss Tas or if it was both of them that would take the same rate per hour and I was glad that the rate per hour was a good and reasonable rate and I seems like there hasn't been a rate change in a long time but um they're both going to receive the same rate per hour Mr bagot yeah all of them receive the same rate okay thank you $2 per hour yes sir thank you how much $200 $2 per hour okay thank you Le I got a question um when it comes to picking the magistrate for the board hearings how is that process done if you have three options um well for the most part it's been Mr nicketti since I've been here because the other two have not been available so but then we've recently had the option or the event came up where Mr nicoletti was not available and we were left with nobody so that's why I felt the need to come forward with some additional um I don't have a problem if we do it on a rotational basis a rotational system of some sort that would be my only thought I don't what's been the history I mean before they only get paid if they serve right he's making yeah but if it was rational then it's 1 two three one two three if they're not available you move on to the next one in line yeah M Mr schedule it's complicated to rotate it because when you have somebody like Mr stankovich come and another magistrate has heard it what we did in the past was we had a primary uh magistrate and in the event that they were going to be absent during a meeting we would have alternatives that were available it was uh Mr be was originally the magistrate um from Jupiter but he's no longer uh available to do the services that makes sense though to have someone that's familiar with the case to follow through yeah I would agree with that I I agree thank you I have no comments thank you vice mayor okay roll call please commissioner Reid yes vice mayor Collins yes commissioner Goob yes mayor Rich yes commissioner Clark yes Mr bagot item seven for our consideration please resolution number 12622441 calendar year providing an effective date and for other purposes there's someone from staff who wants to speak to this or um pretty self-evident in the in the past actually it was um actually easier but um this is The Advisory Board appointment um for the commission we've uh added one Advisory board that is the um Stuart Main Street position that meets once a month at 4:30 in the afternoon I also um would would encourage you that if you're on a board now that that you're not huh this is the advisory one oh yeah this is just theis the Adis talking about commissioner right okay this is just if it's all the advisory boards also um it's a ratification of the Commissioners appointments that should be listed as the exhibits like you'll see the advisory spreadsheet but I know that um I'm going to be appointing someone else Mr cenny has withdrawn his name from the crb board and um Mr Hernandez on the crb board never submitted any application so we may have to bring that back is mar did you ever get anything from Mr Hern I have not um so yes or no no okay so I don't think that um we did do it three times but for some reason he had computer problems yeah what we can do is we can just R the the campan name and Hernandez's name and I also um believe detet price had also withdrawn his name is that correct Mary not officially to me did he I've only heard that CL yes Mr Price has has has said that he will not he sent me a note I think but I also have a new candidate um Reverend James who's here today but we can't we we due process would prevent us from ratifying a new name today because we' put the name on anend put in an application so what I'm asking the board to do is approve the Slate that's listed as the 25 advisory boards with vacancy for Mr Hernandez vacancy for Mr Price and vacancy for Mr campenni because those names um will either need to be replaced or vetted um how would that work with the at large at large CRA because I know the CRA Robin cartright had put her her name she withdrew her name today but even so the C you guys don't appoint the two CRA at large those are at large crb appointments and then the crb votes to have two representatives of the crb come to the CRA meetings so effectively the next crb meeting in January they will vote on whoever the two crb representatives for the CRA are going to be so do we have do we have anybody in the running for that crb spot the Mr campen is vacating um I have I'm not aware and nor is there anybody so the crb spot is an is a at large or a um so when it when his name doesn't get ratified tonight correct then a vacancy will create and I'll send an email to the commission for anybody that wants to put a name of somebody that might be interested in coming to the meeting meeting next month and serve and then we'll have it as an agenda item understand and then it would take a majority of the commission right to that too the crb board correct correct so we'll have two East Stewart historical positions that are vacant yes um the those positions won't be filled until the crb appoints that's new at large positions for next year and then they can appoint the crb people we'll come back with those and then we also have one one two three vacancies in the crb that will be addressed between now and the next agenda got it and I would ask as Commissioners if you could if you have a vacancy to please so wait the crb will be Mr breckbill Bonnie Frank M Moser Mr mccristal and is Mr Monera has he provided a application he has provided an application I do not have a background check yet so we cannot vote on him no we can vote on him it just will be it would just be contingent on it the due process is putting his name in front of the public for notice so there's going to be four people on the crb oh boy from now until January we're not having a lot of crb meetings in got it Mr Breck bill is he still here he does in fact want to you do in fact want to remain on this okay okay any other questions regarding the slate in front of us mayor Rich the only thing I see on the East Stewart historical committee board is Chris Collins's email is listed for Albert Brinkley that's the only thing I see is that that was the email provided to us gotcha Albert you have to update your email to the E Stewart historical board or he doesn't have to have one maybe um you put na Warner BS is g to serve yep okay he's good he is I sat with him on the boa yeah for two years um okay we need a motion in a second I believe for this did I make a motion did we Mary no do we need a modification to that motion since we're not it's just a motion to ratify the board other than okay Mr Hernandez and Mr campenni Cen and Mr Price Right so mayor I would move along those lines with those updates that we've just mentioned second we have a mo motion by vice mayor Collins and a second by commissioner Clark any public comment on this slate of volunteers for our boards no seeing none comments or questions I think we've gone through that pretty much yeah when we make motions if you could restate the resolution or the agenda number it just makes it easier to follow along thanks guys okay we'll be voting on commission action number seven Advisory Board member appointments resolution number 12620 to4 okay roll call please mayor Rich yes commissioner Clark yes commissioner goob yes vice mayor Collins yes commissioner Reed yes and I just H know personal I want to I've been on these boards myself and I want to thank all these people for volunteering they can take quite a bit of time both prior to the meeting and during the meeting and um you know that those contributions to our community are invaluable and I look forward to your efforts item number eight Please Mr bagot for our consideration resolution number 12722 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Stewart Florida approving job description for environmental attorney and to initiate the process of hiring an environment Al lawyer providing for severability providing for an effective date and for other purposes uh this is an agenda item that I put together uh we had a previous discussion on the job description and so we have attached a uh draft of a final job description for the environmental attorney and so this resolution is for approval of that and for uh instruction to initiate the process of the start of the process of hiring an Environmental Lawyer has anything changed Lee in this um since last time uh nothing has changed in from what I had last time we just need to moralize it in a resolution as far as the job description and then the next step would be this goes to Raaz and HR yeah I guess um The Next Step would be to go to Raz and and Raz might be able to come up and talk about the process of kind of similar to what you did for my job so my understanding is there would be some marketing that would go out um to what extent I don't know that's something maybe she could explain it just the next steps in the process from here sir y good evening for the record R strong HR Director so once the job description is approved we put together a um an advertisement it's about a four-page document that we put together in canva so it's a professional looking document that goes out and we send it to um send it to the Florida bar we send it to several places I get recommendations from both the city manager and the City attorney for places to advertise including our own website which gets a lot of traffic uh we use a a site called gov jobs and so get a lot of traffic that way lot of Word of Mouth we have the publication available if anybody wants to distribute it I know that Mack is also sort of unofficially head hunting is there a way that he could be provided a link or some kind of abut way to get that out for absolutely sure and then once the candidates uh apply they they complete the standard um City application protocols and once that comes in um I'll create a summary of those applicants as they arrive indicating their education their levels of experience specific um matters that come out of that job description so we create a spreadsheet for you and then uh that summary is sent to uh the committee members that are determined by the commission um whoever is going to be on that committee to do the interviews um the committee actually does a ranking so if we had say 15 candidates they'll rank those and maybe we interview the top or the group interviews the top say six or eight however many candidates we don't tend to interview all 14 if that was a number that came I think we had between five and seven maybe with we call a representative number right so five to seven is a really good number to work with um and then those are evaluated committee interviews we short list um interviews are in person uh sometimes we have zoom uh candidates that may be interviewed via Zoom so we can make those arrangements all the results of the interviews are compiled for the Commissioners to review and then the commission discussed the finalists um the commission last time interviewed the finalist and went through that process as well commission votes and then a contract is negotiated the whole process from your direction to the negotiated contract is about two months so you have a time frame there thank you yeah are employment applications public record they are they are they are for any position yes sir wow yeah but you know back in the day there were things on applications that are not on applications now Social Security numbers driver's license numbers those things are all off uh we also ban the Box yeah they used to be on applications that was a very standard thing um so so when we send out a request for an employment applic it says stage clearly all the information you proide provide is public record to anyone who seeks to yes it's actually there's a whole statement on the end of the application that the candidate signs and they say I understand this and I understand that so that they understand how government works sure so I don't see the need to direct anything to Mr Stucky he's not specifically if he wishes that information he can request it like any other member of the public absolutely I would like to move resolution number 127 d224 we have a motion by vice mayor Collins um do we have to vote before I make a statement well once we yeah once we have a motion second and then get public comment then we discuss thank you um I'll second the motion okay and we have a second by commissioner goobi um any public comment on this issue Madam clerk do we have any green cards I do not mayor oh okay um seeing none question questions or comments by the commission I I just want to make a comment where um I thought we had agreed that attorney Stucky would be involved in the process but you made a statement that he would get any information as from public record if if I can so what will happen is um vice mayor Collins said that to give Max Stucky a link so that any names of people that he was aware of could submit their applications once the applications are vetted there will be a committee that reviews those applications and I think the part you're talking about where he was involved in is that committee process not the collection of the application process thank you he can help us collect more unofficially he's help welcome to tell anybody to apply but I think any member of the public is everything I had to say I sent you in an email earlier so wanted to save your time it's a long meeting thank you Mr Stucky Mr bagot may I say something Mr baggot are you looking yeah so I'm looking at the not even the knowledge abilities and skills the um the the environmental attorney uh essential function and I know that it seems like it would be somebody for the the city and would work with I wanted to be sure couple of things are they going to be doing environmental work with regard to development review if we have any development uh and then the other thing is um can we put like maybe some I know that we want to keep it broad but I'd like to see some type of deliverable or some type of even this is a testing for us so if we have a chance to say that somebody provides or we see something going on whether their coordination with the lome folks or whatever is happening so that we we know that within a year what is going on and and what is happening it will almost be like a a job evaluation of whether or not we we can sustain and Main and maintain uh this environmental attorney position and if their if their spear is heading towards the the the the pinpoint of really working on the river and whatever is needed and it's not just about lawsuits it's about other things but I wanted to see it's very very general and I know we don't want to tie ourselves down but at the same time I wanted to see something in there other than just water quality or something something more with even with a some kind of a time just a little product deliv deliverable thing say maybe at the end of a of the first year the environmental attorney will provide a report or something to the city or whatever especially on this um water quality um matter so that we don't we're not paying somebody for a year to twiddle their thumbs and I know that I'm not going to say that an attorney is going to twiddle their thumbs but um we know sometimes how long these things take and it will take them some time to to formulate um some kind of a ground plan but I think we need to set some kind of a standard of when we want to see some kind of a good ground plan from them after after they've come on board and trying to do something so so just a couple things one is I don't know that you would want to put that in the job description because I hear you you you're very well may scare qualified people away by saying um this is an evaluation of you even having a job so leave your law firm and uh we might hire you after a year I don't I don't think it's a good start secondly I don't think this person's going to be twiddling their thumbs uh I hear you they they in fact work for you the way this this is all working out is this is another Charter position so you're going to have open access to this person this is not uh somebody being hired by Lee or Mike working for them you're going to have real deliverables as you interact with this person as one of five they working for you so um I think it's actually better to stay Broad and then see who comes in and then let's talk to the people coming in and there I think the the real value in this particular type of job is the expertise that will come in you're going to get a lot of ideas and Direction and possibilities by inviting these people in uh so to have five of us with no environmental law experience saying here's your deliver we we expect this deliverable in a year I think better to keep it open would be my perspective and let's see who comes in and then and then interview these people vet them out and then we can always establish something like that at some point if we get a few months into this and he or she is twiddling their thumbs you know we could say listen we need to tighten this up a little bit better we need to look at having some real deliverable reports to us or something um do you have any other additional comments no I absolutely agree and and being an attorney yourself you know someone's not going to take a position like this come here and twiddle their thumbs um and they have a specific spe Focus which is the environment the river and they're coming here to do that specific Focus for the city of Stewart uh so I think that I agree with commissioner Collins we have no need to put such things in a job creation and it is my understanding that they will be reporting to the Commissioners so at any point if we wanted to meet with them and we had some questions if we felt there was something lacking we should C we could certainly approach them okay thank you just as long as we know it's five of us and then we don't have a five-headed thing going on where we're you know after a while this person doesn't know exactly which side they're turning so we just need to make sure that we're focused on right this idea oh I share your concerns commissioner clerk the sentence that really stood out to me was performs duties with broad latitude in decision making and is self-directed yeah that's not I think we're abrogating at least our fiscal responsibility there and certainly a periodic report even quarterly it doesn't haveen to be that burdensome but to tell us what he's done where he's going she she I'm sorry correct they is not unreasonable by any means and vice mayor Collins is correct we of course are free to speak with them all the time um when we first talked about this I made two pred predictions one unfortunately came true almost instantly when I said we're going to have competing interest especially out in okobi because they're want they're going to want to get the water level down because of the loral grasses it happened within two weeks of me saying that unfortunately um I was told by somebody through email that I didn't know what I was talking about they also informed me that my figures concerning potential costs here were completely wrong and I was told that I was wrong by people who have fought these battles at the highest level they said your numbers are ridiculously low so I you know we will make sure that he is performing and doing a job and that we're getting what we pay for absolutely we all want to see that happen absolutely right okay I have no other comments Madam clerk roll call please mayor Rich yes vice mayor Collins yes commissioner goobi yes commissioner Clark yes commissioner Reed yes moving right along item n Mr bagot for our consideration thank you very much Commissioners I tried to get this done 10 years ago if we had done it 10 years ago the river would be a lot cleaner today we're going to make progress now thank you very much thank you Mac resolution number 130202 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Stewart Florida adopting the annual appointments of city of Stewart Commissioners as City representatives to specific local community boards for the 2025 calendar year providing an effective date and for other purposes and this was this was the uh matter I was discussing first before the community boards um we have a steart Main Street vacancy um that the Board needs to fill and I would also encourage uh you as a commission to discuss the different positions in the different boards and obviously if you have a leadership position on a board that you've been serving on for a long time I think that it it would serve the city well for you to remain in that position but I also think it would benefit the Commissioners and the city um for you to try different boards as well to do other uh have other experiences and meet other people in the community or other perspectives and finally I I know that there's um some boards that for one reason or another there's been conflicts and people have been unable to um attend meetings and if you're not going to be able to attend the meeting obviously tonight's a perfect time to let us know so that we can make sure someone else uh can serve on the board that can actually make the meetings or that um will be able to attend um but ultimately what we're looking for is um a motion to ratify the Slate um in the past um you guys have had discussions and you know seem to Hash it out and we moved it all at one time or you can do it one position at a time it's whatever your pleasure thank you Mr Mayor we have a motion in a second please no Mr may can I have a question certainly um Mr Mr Morel who was the main street representative the Main Street representative used to be Jordan Pinkston but during the U budget process this year the city commission voted that they um wanted a commissioner to serve and as a result this is the first time that it's on the Slate okay I wanted to pitch somebody if I could have that position and then give up the tourism Development Council if somebody would be interested in that switch I'll take that because with the Sailing Center we interacted with them a lot and so I'm very familiar with what's a good way to spend those dollars so I we do that for you vice mayor you'll fall on that grenade mayor rich man is it a grenade no it's it's really not it's a great board so um just so that would have me on Stuart Main Street in N okay go you're pretty close to Main Street so yeah mayor Rich commissioner Reed um I want to talk so I I sit on two boards that um they're both in the morning and sometimes it's difficult for me to attend both I have no problem sitting on the no and another board maybe in the afternoon um but it is difficult to be on two boards that are very high caliber um in my opinion and make them both with enough time so I'm all open for another board but it is difficult to sit on does vice mayor attends do you attend the N meetings yes regularly there's so maybe Mr position why enjoy the m it requires two attendance oh it does it's a vote there's five County Commissioners two City commissioners that's a lot of money down and one comes out of npl I would want to stay on that board that's a big deal um although um if commissioner Reed doesn't I I don't know I didn't I think that's a very reasonable concern did you say did you want to give up both of them or I'd rather sit on the no um and I think for someone that sits on the no should go to the train I think the training is going to open up next year they had talked about it um and if you sit on the no you kind of have to sit on there consistently to even understand it because it is very intense um and I think sitting on both of those boards is quite a bit so the bdb is the one You' right prefer to step away from correct even though I enjoy it it's it's hard to do both I think the new head of the bdb is here isn't he this he is William's [Laughter] awesome um we would also historically that's not a good time for me so historically we had uh two commissioner you know each commissioner would serve on two boards um but Wednesday I don't know um unfortunately both mine I have to travel out of town for each of them so they actually they take quite a bit of time actually I was just up in Orlando I drove four hours for two hours of meetings for the Coast Regional League of cities so that is a very timec consuming but very important position right I've met with the Arts Council um and I'm an alternate with the mayor um so it's the the bdb we're talking about right correct okay um I'll be on that board which one ddb commissioner go oh okay ddb I'll take that from Sean have you met the new head um of the bdb because this he can tell us this guy's got plans I think it's going to be an exciting board he can come tell us what yes um I have a question would someone else like to be the alternate for you the alternate for you on the uh TR the TC I'm pretty good boy I don't miss I don't really miss and now and now I'm the first vice president so why don't we take commissioner giobi off as the alternate though because if she's going to be serving on the bdb she's going to be with the Arts Council in that as well anyway okay great so we won't list her as the alternate for the uh Treasure Coast League of cities well I know you sit poised by your phone every morning I can't do it not until I get that cup of coffee in my hand I don't yeah you you have to drive up to Fort Pierce at the college is there any is there any other boards that we need to address sounds like I think we have are we good do we all understand who's who and where I don't know what the treas regional planning council is you don't know we don't have to worry till 26 so that's oh yeah right okay great Mr Mr Mortel can I ask a question no so if Mr if Mr Rich can't go to the leue of cities um should the vice mayor go if if if it's something let's say if you're sick or something and there's something big going on he's already going to have the he's already going to have the mo and the uh volunteering yourself you no no no the third Wednesday is gone is is gone for me um no just wondering just keep I rarely Miss yeah I know that I know that there is something you could do he said he rarely does it so I think that you could do that you can well I also think that we can worry about it at the time if he's going to miss we can ask somebody we don't actually have to have an assigned position for because it really hasn't come up in the past and you can zoom yeah you're allowed to zoom I think two meetings a year so but I try to try to go in person okay any other questions regarding positions assigns congratulations everyone yes congratulations great little swap we did I like it I'd like to move approval on resolution 130 d224 with the updates that we've made tonight regarding the commission Board second are you clear Madam Clerk and okay yes I believe so so we have a motion motion by vice mayor Collins and a second by commissioner Clark for resolution item number nine resolution number 13-20 24 any public comment on this issue I have no public it's pretty in much inside baseballs this stuff um I think we've had our discussion you agree we're good to go roll call please Madam clerk commissioner Clark yes commissioner Reed yes commissioner giobi yes vice mayor Collins yes mayor Rich yes um and finally last commission action number 10 for our consideration Please Mr bagot no it's two more but it's okay that's a D and D um I just wanted to point out that the uh resolution that got attached to the agenda um we caught a couple of typos after it was put in so I'm going to read from the corrected version but they were minimal uh adding an an and replacing an an with a four but a resolution of the city of City Commission of the city of Stewart Florida directing staff on the implementation of amendments to certain chapters of the Land Development code of the city of Stewart Florida as outlined in exhibit a attached which were determined during the zoning in progress providing for conflict providing for severability providing an effective date and for other purposes and I think I forgot to mention the number it's resolution number 12822 so um I'm going to go ahead and handle this uh we have an exhibit a that's attached that um we uh basically put staff got together and took our notes and um tried to identify the different items that um would be uh addressed by the board or um Changed by staff for the next meeting or for the um by way of ordinance it's a little bit more complicated than you might think because as we do the um as as we got into it we realized that it couldn't be a situation where you voted one vote for everything instead we determined that we need the City commissioners to give us Direction kind of vote single item by single item all the way across so that we can um know exactly what we're talking about and move forward on it I don't know if you want to just go one by one take public comment right now and have it in advance and then go one by one or if you want to go one by one all of them and then take but like we could we could go through each thing discuss it kind of reach consensus and then move to the very end take the public comment and then go back through them and vote um but but I don't know you know how what direction you want to go in it's well before we decide that I I found this exhibit to be very inadequate and trying to go through it two 2.0 3.09 talks about so density bonus and parking waivers dentisty bonus so the purpose but parking waivers are not in there 2.03 can I just finish my list thank you 2.0 3.10 Versa I have no idea what that means 2.4.0 ties Lots there's 30 references to Lots in that ordinance so I don't does it refer to all of them or one of them or those are those are notes for staff essentially they aren't we supposed to have had the time to review the review these ourselves to engage in discussion with each other actually normally the commission tells staff what it wants and staff then brings back the ordinance but because we didn't have direction from the commission as to what the commission wanted we made a list of all of the different items that were addressed during the workshop and put them back and and what you address like for example the first thing is intensity of development lot area and floor area ratio table now that doesn't mean that the table itself isn't paginated correctly it the the notes to that was that the commission had said they were looking for a distinction or or uh a situation where if someone built an exercise their floor area ratio and built a commercial building on a building on a property but they also wanted to add multif family later as well that the commission wanted there to be some kind of blend between those two issues and as staff we're looking for you to tell us well do you want it to be for every th000 Square ft of commercial that's utilized it equates to losing one square foot of um apartments that are available let me give you an example if I had a 10 acre parcel the 10 acre parcel might have a floor area ratio of two or three if it was three it'd be 43,560 * 10 * three so it would allow you to build several million square feet of commercial if you built a Walmart that was 165,000 square feet well if you said for every th000 square foot of far that's utilized the residential portion that's available gets reduced by one unit then 165,000 Square ft would equal 165 units at 1,000 foot per unit and therefore that project if it built 165,000 foot building would right off the top lose 165 units now right now a 10 acre parcel in Stewart can build up to 30 units per acre so if it had 165 units taken off because it had a Walmart built on the site then it would still have 130 units left to balance or whatever you want to call it the remaining space that's available again this is coming from the discussion that you guys had not that staff had so we don't know if that's what you want to do or not so we had to summarize it so that it would give me the chance to bring it up ask you right now let you guys give us the feedback and vote or address it do you feel comfort a with the format so we can start p no I I feel like we misled the public here Mr mortell because if they looked at this and went to the code there's so many instances where the item referred to if you watched any of our three meetings about this we were're all discussing each one of cuz I got called from people they say you know what are you talking about this has nothing to do with that we're not cly under 2. we're not adopting any ordinances tonight we're looking for this is to give direction for from the board to staff and then I have one other concern to share because this has been glaringly missing and it says here whereas the city commission has held workshops accepted public input and evaluated professionally accepted materials I don't see any professionally accepted materials we've had no studies we've had no parking studies we've had no density studies we've had no the only thing referred to is the it which in fact we're ignoring so I feel this is premature here um I mean we're in for a long night I hate to cut you off but we do this for like a half hour 45 minutes at every single one of these zip meetings is talk about why we shouldn't have a zip meeting can we just start going through these we're here well I think we're we've had a presentation by Mr mortell and the Commissioners are allowed to ask Mr mortell and share their concerns and then we'll have a motion in second and then we'll get going so any other questions of Mr mortell with regard to his presentation here if not we'll have a motion in a second and I will comment in response to the uh findings of fact um it's not a quasi judicial hearing tonight nor is tonight actually a legislative hearing because we're not adopting any rules of uh of law so if the board wanted to strike the findings of fact completely it would be fine you could amend the resolution to say on December 9th the city commission told staff to do the following and that way it would remove any where as Clauses and we wouldn't have to worry that um there was some confusion as to what um whether or not it was a study or not like to me I don't I'm not concerned about the whereas in it because the purpose for the resolution was to get the direction from this from the commission would that make you feel more comfortable it would as Mr bagget is well aware I actually read these things before I signed them and um I like them to be as accurate as to Great you know as great a degree as possible so I know I mean commissioner Clark do you think we evaluated professional acceptable matal so I was going to say that I um I agree um what did you say Mr Collins I was going to say I I um vice mayor Mr vice vice mayor I guess I remember what you said I agree with uh vice mayor that we spend about 30 to 45 minutes um saying why we shouldn't have a zip and I know that I'm the main person who does that and I I again we'll say it again I've looked at these I've looked at at what was written here I've looked at the comments from the public I look at what we're supposed to be as leaders and be the best interest of the community I looked at the first meeting when Mr um Rich was not here we had two new members of the of the board so we didn't we didn't have much input at that time and even so with the other me the other meetings that we've had we've not had somebody who said yes this is what I want to change this is why it's going to affect this neighborhood this is why this is happening and I see it as we're quickly rushing to change the vision of the city and we're even though I know people are saying well it's just one or two things it's just um tweaking the parking or doing some things but I'll get to it more even when we get to the East Stewart area and how certain things needs to happen um and I think that you know I think it's just I know what you're you you say Mr Colin commissioner vice mayor and I know that we we want to effectuate some type of a um change in the in the zone but I just see that we need to have that Vision in if we're going to change visioning we we have this property right here that's going to have some changes whenever we move to the to the other building when that gets fully completed and we work on all our leases and all the other things that need to happen this whole area here is going to have some new changes and I know that we cons consistently we can always go through and make additions um and modifications to our plan but I just see this particular time as going forward forward and making uh some vision changes that the public hasn't been fully involved with and that even our new Commissioners and I don't know if I'm speaking for them or not that you know we all don't and all of us really don't have enough knowledge of some of the the the way that things are are make changes in the code we haven't had a full presentation from our own city planner Mr Mortel has been con recently covering that we haven't had outside people we did have somebody um from the regional planning Council come in but I think that if we're really serious about um making everything single family making everything 6,000 square feet and then when something happens in the future people get knocked out of their homes and we can't have smaller homes and people need to know the full impact of these things and I just think that we we a lot of us run on transparency as our um as our Touchstone and I think that we need to just be more transparent and not rush through this at 90 days and then a potential 90 days and um I I I just think that this is not being handled well and um we need to and I'll let um commissioner say exact what it is that he want that's it if we just wanted to change one thing and we did the research and the study and worked on that and say okay yes we've made that particular change to the zoning code but this idea of it's almost like stomping through um with your sword and sticking here and sticking there and it's just not working I don't appreciate it should we just get a motion in a second then we can hear public comment cuz what I was going to say is uh wouldn't it be better to go through these get them done and then motion uh I know you're trying to be procedural with Robert no no no no no we need the motion and then we'll go through them individually right we we all agreed we're going to go through them individually right but we would go through them and then if we need to make changes to the mo we could just do the motion at that point I would much prefer to hear from the public in order to frame our discussion that's one of the reasons we're sitting here so so open if we could get a motion in a second public comment now move approval okay was there a motion made yeah he just made one I'm sorry I'll second mayor did we have a thank motion by the vice mayor and a second by commissioner go um for item number 10 resolution number 12822 4 is there a public comment on this item when it comes mad clerk yes I do one I have John Gonzalez the charger good morning or good afternoon commission good evening commission my name is John Gonzalez I am a homeowner a business owner here in the city of Stewart I live on Villa Southeast Villa Street I've also lived on other streets in this neighborhood um I'm here today as a member of um the government Affairs Committee of the Martin County Realtors of the Treasure Coast and that's who I represent today um we share the goals of the commission to grow and a slow measured manner we believe that the best accomplished by careful planning public involvement and a process that fair and consistent to all involved any effort to quote reform the city's code by reducing or eliminating individual property rights is misguided at best you may have good intentions but we believe that the path you're taking the city will produce some very negative unintended consequences for one you'll make housing even more EXP expensive by increasing parking requirements for duplexes reducing density zoning options and mixed use puds reducing byright densities density allowances and eliminating shared parking and mixed use projects you will cut short a few the few options available to incentivize housing that's more affordable two you're devaluating private properties removing existing commercial land uses in East Stewart combin residential and Commercial uses to limit total development potential and increasing um pervious service requirements diminishes the value of individuals properties three you're even impacting the single family homes you say you want you want more of by increasing minimum lot sizes and setbacks in select districts rendering them either non-conforming or unbuildable finally by making everything more costly and expensive you're not dissuading the development plans of deep pocketed developers large corporations or hedge funds but you are pushing out Hometown Builders who employ local Craftsmen trades people electricians Tile Guys drywall guys and more this makes it harder for local people to own homes but it will make Stewart more expensive more exclusive and more Out Of Reach of our children and yours respectfully Commissioners we the government Affairs Committee of the Martin County board of realtors respectfully request that you vote no on all these proposed changes thank you and I do want to say that I thank all of you for your hard work it's a hard job you guys get some respect you get no respect and I certainly respect you all for sitting up there and doing what you believe is best for our city thank you sir Christine bears thank you my name is Christy bur I am the President of Martin County Realtors of the Treasure Coast we are an 800 person organization of professionals who are dedicated to home ownership property rights and protecting what makes Martin County Special next year we will celebrate our 100y year anniversary over many of these years we have stood careful and sound planning steady slow growth principles preserving our environment and quality of life we want the best for what is what is best for Stuart and I believe we believe you do too but this zoning in progress doesn't help our residents it hurts them we object on several grounds in 2022 the 3- Monon zip was enacted to stop multiple multiple family projects since then then over the course of three joint meetings going back to October 2023 your own staff confirmed that they have zero residential uses in review now zero so why enact the second zoning in progress stopping all new applications in process the current zoning in progress has been conducted without guidance of professional certified planners only three workshops have been held and all three have taken place during the day when most of the people affected are working you stated that this is what the public told you they wanted when you were campaigning for office so why stop listening to them now something this impactful should welcome substantial public input by insisting on significant changes to Citizens vested rights in a process free of formal analysis and professional consult the message being sent is the city is closed for business you're telling your residents that their government is disinterested in earning their consent now you're moving swiftly to impose a dramatic roll back of individual rights to improve their property or realize their full value you are risking costly litigation that the taxpayers will bear the burden of even worse you're violating the trust that expressed that is expressed in the US Constitution and implicit between the elected officials and every American citizen that the government is the servant of the people and not the other way around please vote no for all of the changes presented thank you for the opportunity to speak thank you Ronnie Kirkman just to clarify we have already voted to extend the zip so we are in the second 90day period already correct Mr Mortel we did that at the last meeting cor right yeah good afternoon Ronnie kirchman kirchman construction we've been to business in Martin County since 1971 a second generation company and my daughter also has a GC license who will hopefully be a third generation here in Martin County What's Happening Here is I'm hearing different things I hear affordable housing because of the the people that can't work at the hospital need affordable housing but yet the list that you have in front of you is going to add substantial costs to this affordable housing the other thing I have is I'm a Commercial contractor we specialize in commercial we don't build multif family I ask of you to pull the commercial from the zip tonight thank you thank you Ryan hanser good evening everyone Ryan Hansen Aran construction local contractor here um again kind of going with what's on the list here um I'm primarily in the residential sector of building and construction I'm not seeing anything in here that's really keeping us from being able to do additions to residential houses if we're reducing lot sizes this that whatever else that's not going to be for an existing residence um I think that we should be allowed to continue doing that type of project and work at this time thank you thank you Ben Talbert even guys Ben Albert pal Construction Group based out a Jensen Beach uh Marine Construction um we have a project going on Central Marine across the way I've spoke with several of the Commissioners about it and I'm sure you guys know uh just changing the way we put a boat in the water is what we're doing I spoke also with the city this morning about how that's we're literally taking a forklift drop and putting a uh a boat boat ramp in place so the people that need their affordable housing can do their jobs is I'm starting to see um other subcontractors that do boat polishing uh you know motor rehabs and things like that at the spefic specific Marina coming in so their company's growing and they need to be able to offer that so we can kind of get other people working that have those needs for affordable housing we do both residential and Commercial as Mr kirchman another gentleman met uh mentioned um it affects us in many ways I do a lot of business in Martin County and not much in Stewart but I see my business growing that direction and as I can't sign contracts because people are scared to I can't offer my people more work and it's actually pushing on us as the holidays are coming in to having to possibly lay some people off and I don't want to do that and it stands right right here and continuing our projects uh that's all to say thank you Deb Frasier just to that point that I've heard from a couple of you with regard to commercial assuming that we don't touch anything uh commercial tonight um I have no issue with relieving commercial that does not include multif family from the zip tonight as one of five thank you may I ask a question from that comment so last meeting what you spoke about was pulling out the commercial but you couldn't change the square footage is that still part of that because what I would like to ask is you don't that you just take commercial out period and not change a square footage I know Ronnie has a project where they want to change the facade by two feet um and that will stop him if you do that it will stop him so I just wanted to bring that up that that was brought up at the last meeting and just remind every unless we're touching far or parking requirements or something like that okay I don't know and I know you you could just proceed with your comments then yes we'll keep that in mind thank you I appreciate that so um one of the things that I wanted to mention was again the tax implications I've brought that every time I've spoken um and for you to say uh mayor uh rich thank you that um there haven't been studies and things done I really think there's some big tax implications here and I really think you know you're looking at hiring another attorney that's a lot of money uh you need to really look is is the new attorney in the budget is are these things in the budget and are these tax when you have to start raising taxes because of the zip the problem then becomes those voters who voted for you are suddenly going to say wait a minute that wasn't part of the deal um the other thing is i' I pulled the permits for the last several months um one of the one of the laws in Florida is that you have to have the permits out within 30 days I know the zip sto that but you have permits that are from back in June every every 30 days that passes you have to re every day that passes after the 30 days you have to reduce their fees by 10% I want to make sure that is actually happening and um some of these people back from June you probably are going to owe money to so I just want to be sure because what's going to happen in on March 4th when the zip then becomes is over um the permits people are going to be lined out the door which is a good good thing but how are you going to handle that because you've got 30 days to respond to those permits uh by State Statute so and I can share that with you if if you need that um the other thing too is um there's a lot of families going out without this year because of the zip and I think they're talking about layoffs and these things continue to happen I mentioned it at the last meeting these people are are struggling to make ends meet is the council are you taking into effect these people's faces we were talking about families earlier they have families as well the other thing too um we also train skilled trades workers as a Treasure Coast Builders Association and if you have a need there project lift is a wonderful group but we do we do that as well so we'd love to work with you on that the last thing too I would just mention is you talked about having Jupiter hospital maybe coming talking to them about coming in here it depends on what your variances and your far and all the other things you do if they would even be welcome here so thank you for your doing I do know you work very hard I appreciate what you do and I do hope you all have a happy holiday thank you Walter Lloyd Walter Lloyd uh I've been coming to this area for 30 years I haven't lived here that long but I did your address please sir 150 Southwest Cabana Point Circle so uh yeah I've been coming here that long uh and I did make a decision based on my experience of this area to retire here and just like many spent a lot of my lifelong resources to make that happen what I think is being ignored here is the establishment of the culture over all the years the Legacy that was formed for so many years and it was formed with this Martin County difference which includes Stewart of keeping this a small coastal town studies were done to accomplish all that everybody's saying there was no studies there's no studies there were studies done I watched just since I got here in the last seven years 7 to 10 years the bastardization of the comp plan and the zoning things were done such as Costco such as Bridge View and they were done under the table because nobody was involved in any of that nobody in the public thought that you were going to do that so it was shoved in under the rug and by the time we found out and spent thousands and thousands of dollars to have experts contradict what the developers experts were saying and that's that's what drove development the developers there were no studies other than what they presented to you and you weren't experts but you approved it now we have a Costco we may have a bright line we're going to bring people from all over the region we're not going to stop they're going to fill their cars up and go away so I applaud you you people were elected to try and keep that difference in place and I applaud you for stepping up in integrity and doing what you said you would do now you're going back and undoing what was done in those years to screw this whole Martin County difference up thank you for the new Commissioners and keep up the good work thank you thank you Jerry Gore Senor good afternoon first of all I'd like to thank all of you for your great concern but uh just upon this week and not just this week I'm at Jerry Gore Senor 410 Lake Street uh now I got to start all over got in the middle of my sermon so I want to thank all of you first of all but just this week I learned that there's another apartment building which is on East Ocean Boulevard uh they're renovating it and they're they're dubing the rent over there so a lot of our people when we lost to 21 houses over there at George Taylor uh relocated over that way so now they don't have anywhere to go and our houses the zoning that I over these St it was that we could put a family home in front and then maybe a cottage in the back or we could put little houses on these uh uh lots that we have uh there was ways in then even with the duplexes we could turn them sideways and slide them in that way they didn't mind walking down the hallway and and doing it but what I'm trying to say here is that whether you think you need uh color in Eastwood or in Martin County or not you really do you cannot get rid of the history those people was moved over there when they was over on the island they were moved over here in East Stewart and given a name with not even a marking uh what the property looked like uh where it was located and there was a lot of uh Lakes over there a bunch of lakes they was given nothing they never been given nothing they never been given a fair opportunity to even to get Fair wages and right now it done caught up with us we got people 60 70 years old only getting $700 a month you can't even pay your light bill and water bill Shar and medication we do not have the upkeep that the average American have got in this world it's not Liberty and it's not Justice for everybody but we're doing the best for what we got so if you do anything over there to stress us more than raising the taxes because they were pretty high this year they raising the taxes you're going to tax us out and you're going to run us out of the mark count of all together and I don't think that's feasible I don't think that's what your job is so if you can find it in your heart whenever you start to make some decision try to get with some of us over there in that area and think about the people that's going to be homeless not because they don't have the money because they never had the fair and equal opportunity to make the money thank you so much thank Youk you Joseph Cooper good evening um everyone of the D Joseph Cooper 906 Southeast 9th Street I'm the owner of GA Construction Group I was of course born and raised here um just moved my business back um a few years ago because I had to go down south to grow my business because there was not a lot of opportunities what we're seeing in this ZIP process is I understand that some we may feel that the city has gotten out control I still tell folks all over the country that will listen that this is still navana um there has been some growth um but coming from you know attending JD Park Elementary to now I I felt that the growth was necessary it has always been measured um we've always talked about not becoming Fort Lauderdale growing up here this is we're not going to become Fort Lauderdale we're not going to become West Palm Beach and we're not going to become Miami Dade when I see what is happen happened I think we've accomplished that um we did not become Fort Lauderdale we did not become West Palm Beach we're not going to become Port St Lucy so we're going to still remain Martin County we're going to still be quaint but improved I'd like to say we've improved it one of the things that pastor G talked about is that with if you create continue to create single family housing and and expensive single family housing PE the average person that looks like me will not be able to live here right I do pretty well as a general contractor but I'm also concerned about my fellow person that may not be as influent but I'm also looking at my my my daughter who's can she afford to spend $3 million on a home or hey right now Martin County's always been elevated when it comes to the cost of living we've always been at the height of per capital income so we knew that we knew that Jupiter Alum was existing we knew that but we were still thriving with certain changes that it impacts my business to have this whole slowdown I've got people that say we want to do business we have to have in construction we have to have a mix because sometime multif family is down and you can't get but you can do single family sometime nonprofits are expanding so you can't just say we can't have multif family we just have to measure it I think think but to stop everything totally is impacting a lot of us as as kirchman and all the other contractors said impacting us economically it's insensitive um I know we want to make some changes but we got to slow down and figure out but while we do that we need to kind of allow things to be presented to the city and then approved or not approved and if we don't have the right Vision this new so-called halfhazard Vision will destroy the legacy of what we've done over the years to protect Martin County we we just needed to improve it we don't need to destroy it we were undergrown we were our infrastructure need to be improved we needed some new spaces thank you thank you Mr gooper I have Jeff Bowers good evening my name is is Jeff Bowers um my company is Masterpiece design build right down the street on Colorado Avenue I grew up here um grew moved here in 1973 I was much younger then why w we old um but but I'm a property owner I'm a general contractor but I'm also a property owner um our family Homestead is at 700 East Parkway on Krueger Creek um our property here on Colorado Avenue is commercial and more recently we just acquired a house at 925 Flamingo Avenue remodeling that from my son who has moved back to this area to join us in business so yeah there are multiple Generations that is happening I'm a past president of the treasure ghost Builders Association I don't typically come speak at these meetings and these are certainly not prepared remarks that I have so just bear with me while I understand I think I understand the motivation of what's transpiring here seems to me that it has happened very quickly and um I think it's when I look around town and I see the skyline of the city has changed I think it's the multif family component that has really shocked a lot of people and that's probably why we have a couple of new faces on the D right now um we need to be smart we need to ensure that we continue to keep Stewart as a vibrant place so play people like my son can afford to live here and Mr Cooper I got news for you it's not just people that look like you it's people that look like me too there's there's people that cannot afford to live in the city I have 14 employees and most of them do not live in the city of Stewart um I would ask that you guys slow down on this I know you're going to do what you all think is right there are a lot of experts in town there's a lot of us who are uh willing and able to sit on panels and work with you guys to to kind of help come up with some of the better answers I would I would urge you to please slow down and let's not rush into something we're going to regret later thank you thank you sir Marcela camper welcome back good evening again Marcel camore um trying to remember my address 12 Ridgeview Road and uh SWS point and my office is on 47 West Ocean Boulevard um I have retained The Firm Sterns Weaver Miller it is my understanding that um the objection that my Council has filed has been sent to the City attorney and the city manager I was told that it was sent to the clerk and a hard copy was delivered to each of you I doubt that I will be allowed to read this objection letter um you are looking like it wasn't delivered I'm happy to read needed but um unfortunately I some some people are talking about the Christmas you know and laying off people my Christmas money is into hiring attorneys um as stated in the letter submitted by my Council um exhibit a as mentioned by the mayor is incredibly confusing it is incomplete it has erroneous um references to different sections it is unclear regarding what the intent is it doesn't say you need to to go watch three previous meetings it says you have to follow exhibit a um it wasn't done with sufficient Clarity in regard of the scope of changes that are being proposed and I understand that this is a grocery list but it's the exhibit we have and the exhibit is quite frankly in legible um as per the statement in my council's objection letter I would ask you to direct staff to maintain minimum lot size applicable to R3 zoning provided by the city as an alternative for people that had R3 zoning that instead of building 30 units to the acre we could do 10 single family homes as a as an alternative to what we are saying we don't want today um what's interesting is in this list that was provided 10% of the items listed make reference specifically to lot sizes the zip said we are exempting single family homes but 10% of the items on this list are against single family homes 25% of the items listed are affecting negative affecting negatively affecting single family homes so did we exempt single family homes or are we targeting everyone that doesn't have a lot of a size that we think is acceptable and I say we think because I did do a public records request for the materials for reviewed and I was informed there was none um finally and I say this not as a member of the public but as a professional certified to write codes certified to write comprehensive plans in a quick brush of this list this exhibit or this grocery list is in contradiction with 22 of your goals and policies 37 of the policies of the comprehensive plan I haven't even looked yet at um well the ER and everything everything else but please um remove the lot sizes remove any hindrance on single family please thank you I have no more public com oh I'm sorry yes I do Albert Brinkley listen I've been living either on Martin are in the vicinity V vicinity of Martin majority of my life I'm 67 years old and what I see and what the residents see there won't be e stood if you don't take a step back and respect us as Community because see you look at the history of this country when you look look at the blight neighborhood they gradually be in that gtif fication territory look out the history of this United States that's what's going on and that's what we the East stward Community sees what happening what's going on East everybody where about East stood and you hear people oh I'm waiting on the zoning change where I can be on my condo and he stood that's what they waiting on for you all to make this change I just talked to some residents before I came up here I was told them I was heading to me but they are concern the way our neighborhood is heading people see this here it's not only just us in this community y'all outside of see what is happening I hear it all the time even up here you all are getting pushed out this goes on in low income neighborhood that's CH to for a you all need to step back and realize what we are we are a residential community and we want to stay that way we want to be respected as a neighborhood not overlooked not pushed out and the way this is going that's the what's going to happen another light neighborhood in the United States being pushed out where nobody will look like me in that neighborhood Ood that's the way it's heading You all take a step back and respect us as part of Steward because we are tied we're tied we're tied and I I reiterate this again it's not just us it's other people see what's going on I hear it all the time you all need to take a step back and let us be a part of not push us out not push us out I have a home there my beautiful granddaughter I built that for her and her mother and the way this going my 10-year-old granddaughter won't be able to live there God is not pleased with this type of stuff you all and if you don't do the right thing you going to have to answer to him whether on this side or the other side and you don't want it to be on the other side you all need to respect her I have that home not for me for my granddaughter and her mother my daughter respect us do the right thing let us live in this community peaceful in the East community help us over there not push us out homes has been torn down by the city people is living on the streets right now I see this every day when I'm taking my grandbaby to school after a while right now people is coming here buying property people that's live there can't afford to live there next thing you know we'll be on the outside looking in y all need to take that in consideration people is homeless right now and what and I'm going say this here what's seems to be happening with Mr tell property nobody in this building knew that man like I did thank you Mr what's going on with his property he wouldn't be pleased with that he'll be turning over his grave right now I knew this man better than anybody thank you Mr Brinkley thank you Mr Frank Crystal I'd like to mirror the gentleman the white hat here with his comments that were pretty good real good actually and uh I think there's so much information and maybe misinformation but from 30,000 ft I see this yes what you're doing now is a reaction to the general public being bent over by the previous commission and the changes we've seen in our hometown in the past 10 years so I would say you're not perfect but don't let Perfection be the enemy of good and uh recognize that the the only people here speaking against you are people that are in the business and last time I maybe I'm not following this right but this isn't forever this is just a step back to take a look and it is a reaction that the people want all right thank you thank you thank you I have no more public comment okay thank you Donald Duffy um 916 Martin Luther King Jr Boulevard here in Stewart I'm a resident I live here all my life and I know Mr Cooper I think and and um like he said growth is good but at an extent when developer come in and they say oh we want to do this to make this better okay sure but when you thinking about making it better you have to realize the citizen that live over in East Stewart they like myself I'm disabled and most of them over there are disabled are either on a fixed income and they cannot afford a $400 $500,000 home the homes that they have they're paid for they own those they own that land so you can't come in and say okay let's disrupt things and build full $500,000 home when you know these people cannot afford it WR down the down the road they build three brand new homes $400,000 and then in the area they come in and they say oh we want to buy your home we offer you $30,000 for your home and then they redevelop it new construction then they put it on the market for $500,000 and they give you $30,000 for your property and your home that's already owned think about it who who's crazy and then you say affordable homes affordable for who two 2,500 $1,200 a month when most people here cannot afford that even the ones who not on income I mean come on yes we want we want growth but at what extent and when does it stop when does it stop when your pocket is so full that the money is just falling all out on the ground at what extent oh we want to make the community better okay the homes that's in there get some programs in there that say okay hey we're going to upgrade trade these properties or fix them up you know give them some some incentive just don't come in there and say oh let's build new homes and whoever can afford it can afford it look I mean y'all I mean every day you know that people complain that they cannot afford this where they're living at and then you want to just come in and build a 4400 $500,000 home where people cannot afford them just to make your pocket a little more bigger it it doesn't make sense and I have no problem with developers I mean everybody have to U live but at what extent and like Mr ER said our area been over there forever our forefathers and everything they they worked hard for what they they have and why would you want to just come in there and let someone come in there and just run over you and just say hey if you can't afford it hey oh well you have to go just like the rest of us up here all our grandparents parents before us they build their house they work hard for it to leave their kids something that's exactly what we want in our area to leave our care something thank you thank you thank you sir Mr Mayor I have no more public comments okay so Mr Martell we'll go through them one by one Donald sure M mayor commissioner go can we take a break oh you're right we should thank you for a very sens we will take a 15minute break till quarter of 7 6:45 you have that Madam cler thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e with Darren later Darren's always in our emails never leaves us just you been Che what do you think we reconvening reconvening it's the do CS okay are we good Mary cler all right we're reconvening our meeting we are on item 10 is that correct Mr bagot we are so we've had a motion we've had a second and take it away Mr mortell I gave it some thought during the public comment and uh the commissioner's comments and I think that maybe it'll work better if I quickly go through this entire sheet let you guys as a Commissioners individually kind of digest what the thoughts were from staff and then when I go back to the items because some of them are duplicative and some of them will be a they they relate to each other so if I could just run through it that's certainly the case if you feel that's the best way to proceed there no objection from objections here so so what we did was you can see on the leftand column is it was just during the workshop as we went through each one of the chapters as the commission was discussing different sections of the workshop our notes came up and yes there were things that the commissioner said that did not directly relate to the chapter we were talking about but it nonetheless came up but from the commission during the workshop can I can I make an objection because we're effectively going to have to end up going through it twice why not just go through it once where he brings it up he can speak his piece and then we can talk about it and hash it out instead of going through this entire list without feedback why do you think you're suggestion is better oh we spent three three meetings talking about all this and well just because I didn't know if people had thought about this stuff or understood it but if we want to try we spent three meetings doing it if you don't know it by now guys so you do have an objection yes okay we I think we should go start with the first one okay the first one was a discussion at the first Workshop about how there are commercial projects where somebody builds a car dealership or a Walmart and then or a Costco and then wants to build Apartments as well and the commission's consensus was that there should be some relationship between far and between density and that because a under the commercial code you have a far of two or three and you can build X under commercial and then you put that down and then you say okay now under the residential code you have density and then you can build up to 30 units an acre so the two of those things get added together in the old proverbial saying of 10 pounds of sugar in a 5 pound bag happens and so the logic was staff was looking for some direction from the board as to what relationship they wanted and the discussion I said earlier was the idea of if Walmart built 165,000 square foot Walmart well that is a mass that is a building that is space that is parking spaces it has a a a visual effect that takes up space on that land and so the commission's direction was that that should be balanced against right just the apartments alone that could have been built there in the alternative of the Walmart so the question is what what number is the commission looking for as to the density equation on the floor area ratio so when you and I were talking about this and we were kind of hashing out the math it looked like tying 800 square feet to um a unit so if for example Walmart did 165,000 foot building and the and we used 800 ft I would say 16 5 1 2 3 / 800 equals that would remove 206 units more than how many it would remove how many would be there well it depends on how many acres if it was a 50 acre parcel correct they would have and by the way this is why I said I had to go through them all because right now you can do 15 units an acre and up to 30 units an acre so if it was a using Costco if it was a 50 acre parcel they would have had 1,500 units that could could have been built but if it's a 10 acre parcel in the example I used in a 10 acre parcel at 30 units an acre it' be a total of 300 you'd then be removing 206 so that would leave a total of 94 then that 94 that were left would still have to provide parking and would still have to meet the are we talking about one far ratio for the entire city no has nothing to do with changing the far at are far is a commercial application right under the commercial application that's generally a far of two or three or four a far a four for a 10 acre parcel since I have the computer or the calculator out would be 43,560 * 3 * 10 equals you could build a building that's 1, 36,800 Square ft or you could build divided by 166 23 equals you could build eight Walmarts so are you do you feel like you understand the idea that what we're talking about is having a fully built commercial project and then using that entire parcel's density allowances for multifamilies the current way that we do this and then we just put that on what 25% of the parcel right so we take everything you could build here and just smash it into 25% so what we're saying is instead of doing that your your multif family and your commercial commercial would have to balance if you're going to add multif family you have to lose far out of that commercial so it's ultimately there's a 100% um well for example they could not build the Walmart just build the and just build the the resal how would you frame that L how would you describe that to like buildable structure mass mass you know you have end up instead of double the mass on the same parcel was the idea so tying the number of square feet of commercial to a residential unit now if you can have maximally so much you know you can sliding that scale what goes on that 25 but then the other factors that come in with with with wetlands and other things that happen on a property that's why when we have a PE we are able to work through these things we'd still be in a on a more reasonable level you don't have to change it the zoning I mean because it's only going to do what it can what can be accommodated right now you can do double so you you can have the fully buildable commercial and then have all of that residential density as well just on 25% of the parcel if you can meet parking Wetlands everything else but what it what it results in ultimately are these taller higher projects that people are frustrated with can only go four stories but that's that's the frustration is that four stories is the we're having a commercial project and then a four-story apartment and that's fine I have three four-story apartment right outside my office window on St Luc Crescent and they're they're not a problem when when you when you were campaigning was that not what you heard as well is the frustration with those four story apartment boxes or like uh Eden Mah right having next to the single family home neighborhood a Maserati dealership building three or four two or two two no the ones on East Ocean are two two okay but they don't make the parking requirements yeah that's true to the ones that I um they're also 50 years old there things done back in the day that were not acceptable now but you know reducing fars going to make stuff more expensive I mean we're yes but we're not we're not for clarity right the board the staff has not been told to make any changes to the commercial code yet far as the commercial so many things it's the density that is being reduced or proposed reduction just want to make sure that that's clear so the multi family do we have any kind of study that says what that impact will be and which I mean we're just winging it right Mr we can always change this in the future we're saying 5050 you want a 5050 thing a a relationship to where if you're going to have more multif family you're going to lose far and if you're going to have far you're going to lose multif family but together they have to be in harmony for the mass that's on that property instead of having full on and then full on but smashed here it's kind of like the form base well right now you can get double the density in terms of commercial and multif family there is no density uh Mass it's it's difficult because they're apples and oranges but you have double the amount of stuff in technical terms I mean it has to do with setbacks with maximum coverage with maximum Building height I mean it far is complicated I mean again this is not affecting far it's no matter what or two depending on what what the S of zoning is using Walmart for an example if the far is three Walmart is only a single story building so it only uses the first level of far a far of one just so we know is a 100% of the land being that so if you have one acre and your far as one that means you're entitled to 43,560 foot building optimal if you have a far of two you would be have 43,560 * 2 and if you had a far of three it'd be 43,560 time 3 right now the reality of it is the other requirements in our code such as Uplands setbacks parking sidewalks and other things make it impossible to and perious impervious to reach those those numbers especially with a 4ot height limit like for example if I had a 10 acre parcel and I could build 4 million square feet or whatever that equates to 43,560 time 10 times three then I really couldn't because I could only go up four stories and because of the parking that would be necessary and the Landscaping that would be necessary and the sidewalks that would be NE NE and all the the storm water that would necessary all this stuff I'd never cover every inch of the site however the discussion that the board had during the workshop was that they didn't want somebody to build a Walmart on 10 acres and then come back in and submit the application for multif family and say well look I have 10 acres 10 acres of land at 15 units an acre is a minimum of 150 units and because I can go up to 30 units an acre it's actually 300 units this proposal based upon what was said at the workshop would be okay well if you had 160,000 foot Walmart on it and then under the proposal of 800 or units 800 feet of for every 800 feet of commercial that's used you essentially use up one one unit of density so 160,000 ft Walmart divided by 800 equals you would burn up 200 units so then once that Walmart parking lot was there and Walmart was there and all the stuff was there on that 10 acres if they came in and said okay but now I want to add my density you'd say well you've already built this pretty big building so the only density that you have left is 10 acres at 30 units an acre you have 300 units total but you've already used up 200 100 of those units your so you're only entitled to 100 units why you keep saying we're not talking about far because the far isn't changing okay the far is going to be whatever far is under the commercial code the only thing that's changing is the density side of it density is changing because reality is 200 units so you lose a half unit whether it's you use a unit whether it's a half unit or whether it's 500 ft or 1,000 ft if it's according to the proposal for from vice mayor was Bas 800 square ft so if it was 800 square ft if you built a 150,000 ft building you would divide that by 800 and I used 160,000 foot building divided by 800 would be 200 units goes away now if you can only build 15 units an acre and 200 units went away you don't have any space left at all to build any units because you've your building has already been overbuilt but if you reduce the size of that 160,000 ft building to 60,000 Square ft and say 60,000 divided by 800 equals then you would only reduce it by 75 units so you could build a 60,000 squ foot building and then if you had 10 acres and you were allowed to do 15 units an acre you could have 150 units you could have had but you used up 75 of them on that 60,000 ft building so now you only have 75 of them left on The Proposal you're G to have mixed use this is true mixed use you're balancing versus double use you're not going to benefit from having the additional piece later on right so um Mr mortell or Mr bagot or Mr col commiss vice mayor colle since you're suggesting this what is a a a somewhat of a a general language so that this can be modulated what is that General language with regard to lot area and um uh residential um so I mean we don't have the staff here with the thing on the board to give us some if we're going to go through this we just need to go through it and put the language there and see if we agree to it well that's what would happen when we come back with the ordinance right but we can't draft the ordinance if we don't even know what the basis is it500 is it 300 is it 800 do you not want to do it at all is there any calculation if it like we don't know what the board wants us to do as staff we're looking for that direction exactly can we give him can we give him consensus with what we've discussed with 800 square fet being related to the far and then what happens when somebody comes in five months from now and wants to do something and we're going to be doing more conditional uses and changes well no I don't I don't think we will that's the reason we're here today at 800 square F feet what would Costco look like well I don't know how many acres Costco is but Costco Costco's 50 no no Costco is 166,000 square ft and then it's also got 35,000 ft of commercial so let's just call it two 200,000 sare ft so Costco at 50 acres because the bigger big Parcels it really doesn't apply to but at 50 acres times 43,560 time 3 equals 6,534 th000 Square ft under the far calculation not have been impa that's the Texas stadium where the Dallas Cowboys play would not have been but in this instance Costco was 200,000 F feet of commercial so if we took 200,000 and we um divided that by 800 equals it would have removed 250 of the total units that Costco could have built but Costco could have built 50 time 15 by right equals 750 so it would have left 500 units still now Costco only got approved for 378 so it wouldn't have actually affected Costco how does that work with their because they had so much parking because Costco was only the density of Costco was only 8.1 units per acre Costco was exaggerated tremendously on social media all of the stuff was not true yeah so then do not to go into Costco and go down that but if you use a 10 acre parcel or a if you use like the 10 acre parcel or a 20 acre parcel on US1 and you say there's a 20 acre parcel on US1 correct and they want to build a 100,000 square foot automobile dealership so you have 100,000 square feet divided by 800 square fet equals that would be 125 units that couldn't get built then out of that 20 acre parcel if it was commercial and it only and it it allowed 15 units per acre it would be allowed to have up to three 300 units but it couldn't because 125 already got shaved right off the top so it would drop it down to what no 175 right would be would be cut off right off the top which when we doing that math thaton if we go three things down I also we get into the bonus parking Park you know so that's the next issue in the formula which why I was going to go through it the summary of it but what it would do is again if I had a 10 acre parcel and I came in and I said I just do Residential and I said 10 acres times 15 I could do 150 units on my 10 acre parcel by right administratively I could build 150 units now because of value of land because of people's interest in making money what happens is the guy comes in and says well I'd rather do the commercial first and I'm going to do 7 80,000 100,000 square foot of commercial and the 10 acres still doesn't lose any density because the far versus the density don't they don't connect talk so whatever commercial happens on the site never reduces the density so when staff was saying giving the direction or when commission was giving direction to the staff to create a relationship between the commercial that gets built and the density that's left this is the discussion and why we're here so it never applies to these big sites it always applies to the smaller sites if you get to a 5 Acre Site it it really starts mattering because in a 5 Acre Site if you built a 30,000 foot office building and you took the the 30,000 divided by 800 equals you'd lose 37 units but in a 5 Acre Site times 15 you'd only have been entitled to 75 units so you only have 37 left at the most so it the smaller the the space the more it impacts the mass or the buildings that were there the bigger the space like Costco it has absolutely no relationship at all because the taxes the big guy doesn't matter it's a little guy who can get squeeze it's sometimes that's the case but for the most part we don't have a lot of those 50 acre Parcels that are going to be developed so when why is applicable for us excuse me yeah so when staff comes back they will say these are the properties that will be impacted by this specifically it depends on what you tell us the type of properties size well so so so use under the current status of steart there is 135 Acres of commercial left there's zero multifam there's zero Z special neighborhood District there's less than 20 uh low low density residential there's less than 20 Zone dise E Stewart that's vacant so it's we don't have a lot none of it applies the clock is stop though it really applies to if somebody's going to tear down the Walmart or tear down the the the uh theater industrial land in South City we have we have think Acres of industrial or if somebody comes in and wants to change a land use from commercial maybe less I'll pull it up if we have a land use change from commercial to residential it doesn't impact developments that have cause see the problem we're solving yeah we don't have any major acute problems at this point so do we feel like there's some consensus on this commissioner yeah I remember when I talked with Mike we had mentioned uh 800 to a th000 we were discussing something along those lines I would like to see it at 800 and then if later we find if just in the numbers that we're talking about it seems a lot more reasonable and then if we find that we want to push that out later we could okay just to be clear because we've got to get through this obviously we just this is a more free flowing conversation so as long as we're all nice to each other we'll continue in this manner thank you yeah well we send it out we just need to make sure that the the public knows exactly what it is that we're hopefully would be um accepted in more detail so I think we need to spell it ordinance this is not the language they're not going to know till staff that's what we're asking them to do is bring St to put but I'm saying that when they put it together we need to make sure that they have their full yes agre if I may uh mayor we're just trying to kind of summarize the workshops and then we'll come back and we'll have two public hearings it'll also have to go before The Advisory board so you want more from us so what I have done on this spreadsheet is I have each one of these yeah well I'm just even and it doesn't even have to be a formal vote it doesn't have to count but is what I'd like to do is I have five Commissioners names marked so that I can track who supports it and who doesn't and if it's the who supports the 800 do you want like whatever you want to do we take a vote on each he saying an informal I don't know what's an informal vote vote it's for him to create the next piece which will 800 I will also support the 800 we'll just vote on each one of these just so that we can get to consensus and move forward so I'd like to move does Mary need to poll us Mike would that be the best y so yes okay this was just moving to something roll call please on this first item which only took going to make a motion so so um mayor I'd like to make a motion that we move forward um with the discussions around far and relating it to uh multif family density with 800 square feet being that relationship those are that That's the basis for reduction of density okay I will second that motion so we've had discussion let's just go to the vote Mary right okay commissioner Clark no commissioner Reed yes commissioner giobi yes mayor Rich no vice mayor Collins yes next item Mike the next item is to this one's going to hopefully be faster yes this is you jinx that one I know this is the discussion was density bonus and parking waivers for mixed use so in downtown for example civita which is across the street the courthouse the code says that buildings they use to be allowed to be four stories tall then the code changed and said you could only go to four stories if you added a residential component however the balance in that was that that residential component would not have a parking requirement so you wouldn't if you were going to the the the parking needed for those 25% units or the top floor of the civit building was originally approved with five units and there was no parking calculation done for those five units the calculation was only done based upon the commercial component the commission's direction was there is no parking waivers it's whatever commercials parking requires the commercial parking requires and whatever residential parking is required residential parking is required and there is no sharing of parking because I don't know maybe at one point this made sense but now people are working remotely there's a very real possibility that there's commercial uh use happening at the same moment that people are in their residents and everybody needs somewhere to park so if you're gonna you're G to build it you need to park it would be the summary on this one so um there I'd like to move that we move forward with um the subsection for 2.0 309 density bonus and we can't don't make reference to subsections because they could be wrong it would be more moving forward they are wrong we don't that this is what we were talking about during the work there I'd like to move that we um no no no density bonuses for mixed use no parking uh waiver for anything full parking calculations on both commercial and residential yes okay do we have a second on that I'll second the motion okay Mr Mayor I go ahead please again I think we heard some of the public talk about the idea of um everything becoming more expensive Urban plan in um techniques with regard to to to density and parking and not creating all these parking lots and I'll just you bring up um civitas for example they have that grass parking area there it's not filled up the the rooms are upstairs same thing with um Steve vitali's properties there he has both res uh commercial downstairs and um that's called um Esplanade or something if I don't pronounce it right right there by the railroad track and there's um homes upstairs and there's ample parking on street and and they have parking in the back and I I think that because the Elizabeth isn't built yet huh because the Elizabeth isn't built yet that's not there's not going to be parking there once that structure that we've approved is built no he I mean I'm saying that that the the the what's existing is is existing there now along he oan Boulevard in Flagler at Flagler no on Flagler Flagler Esplanade on Flagler and and um and East Ocean same thing with with what's there with citas with East Ocean and there um every time folks come in and we have to review these things um and I know you're concerned about this half unit but that that's that was a part of trying to create something affordable with this one bedroom that's there and and people are going to park at night mostly for for those um it's in the it's in the well it's not in a park and exempt area that particular part of the the city but I I just think that um uh we're talking Urban conditions here and I I think that we um I think we're missing the boat on what is how we can create um reasonable density and have um keep um things affordable for um development I guess if we don't want any development or we don't want any any balance in then you know maybe that's this is in this particular one it's making sure we can park what we build and going forward as more and more Redevelopment happens if this kind of a thing sits in there that can be leveraged you know it may not seem like an issue now but every one of these projects it gets redeveloped and there's these bonuses where you don't have to park it will increasingly become an issue and most of these are going to be tied to what you know Mike Meyer was doing via Kev Freeman and Merit these changes that happened to our comp plan I as I see it we are restoring back how things were before we made those changes and you know I won't beat this to death but voters have told you they don't like the direction we were going they don't like this the level of urbanism that we were deploying they want a more reasonable um urbanism in our downtown okay well this brings up this brings up a complaint I'm going to make throughout here is this is a clear violation of our comp plan because it says specifically because we Chang policy 3.8 2.6 the city will encourage new construction through density bonuses because we Chang our so we can't just say remove density bonuses we can we can change our comp plan this okay if we going to change the comp plan we going to stop this whole process not today but in the future no no no no you better be careful what you say there this is not the density bonus this is you can the density is allowed at 15 units this is parking this is parking waiver that I'm currently talking about it's it it was discussed by the board is removing it as the density bonus and parking waivers for mixed use and that's what the notes were that were written down you guys aren't doing that until later on the spreadsheet but right now we're just talking about the parking part of it bonuses we're going to up to 20 units an acre professionally accepted material this is from kimley horn this is who we hire and here's what they say about parking because commissioner Clark is correct most cities are completely overp parked these are wasted heat Islands especially in Florida and you create what they called parking crater is a portion of a downtown that has been hollowed out by the Pres of large surface parking lots whether these are highly or poorly utilized they deaden a downtown its walkability and most important its viability ample parking promotes single occupancy vehicle trips that's what people complain the most about traffic single occupancy and impedes the ability for our communities to develop and grow it's very exciting King County completely redid their parking they were so overp parked they spent a tremendous amount of time and effort to collect viable data and determine how their Community works we have done none of that and we sit up here and I am not a parking expert I am not and we're saying we're going to redo it and undo it I I on what basis we are making this decision I have no idea the voters okay the V there's a program called Park Plus Jody are we familiar with this that Kim Hornen it's a program that any municipality can subscribe to and it analyzes all your parking needs in reality um replacing flawed standards with the custom realities this is isn't this who we hire Kim Horn study as somebody who spends probably more time than anybody in this room looking at white papers Prof professionally I can tell you that it doesn't mean anything you can get a white paper to say whatever you want it to say I promise you whatever you want a consultant to put down whatever I am not concerned about what that says I'm concerned about the reality that I experience in my city and so are all of the other people who voted for us to undo this kind of thing so my experience as it relates to the city of Stewart and parking is that the parking exempt are area gets complaints about parking from 4: until 700 p.m. on Thursday Friday and Saturday nights not enough for us to charge 50 cents for someone to park because we don't have the tolerance or the demand for parking to actually charge for parking the parking on the US One Corridor however for example the uh kabas and the uh whatever the Outback Steakhouse and the Jensen Beach mall and the kasco and the Aldi and the Publix and those things actually have enormous enormous parking lots but this is not adjusting the parking code at all it is just the commission gave direction to staff to say that when people come through through with both a residential project and a commercial project on the same site we don't want staff to do a parking analysis that merges the two we want staff to make them Park the full thing for the residential and the full thing for the commercial but not changing the parking code at all at that point shared use no shared use if you have commercial where everybody comes in par during the day and then you have residential where those people tend to be gone do you think that that's true postco you think that everybody's leaving to go to work or do you think people are potentially staying home and working from home now we're not allowed to quote any studies apparently everybody's realizing well first of all requiring all that parking is going to make it much more expensive absolutely you cannot deny that you don't need a white paper to realize that but to it's every Community is realizing they've over parked these cities and yeah postco it yeah if you don't no one compain to me that there's not enough parking you know in there's not enough parking on East Ocean in front of The Fresh Market or at the old downtown Publix or at I mean these are gigantic asphalt deserts those those aren't properties we're talking about mayor rich they're not the properties we mixed no if if someone were to they were there's no there's no vacant land left at all so we're not actually talking about we're talking about the the property that's in the city of steart since there's no multif family vacant land so there's zero Acres of multif family so it can't be that there's zero Acres of special neighborhood District so it can't be that what it has to be is the theory corre that someone's goingon to come in and build multif family the public or at the Walmart but it would have also prevented sevas with having 15,000 foot of commercial space and 69 out of the 138 required on their parcel but the city gave them 19 on street parking spaces so they have 88 out of the 138 that's what we're trying to prevent that could have been voted no though corre that could have been voted no part problem but that's so that doesn't the distinction on that doesn't make the distinction on this because that was a board that just waved those par that's what we're trying to prevent so but this isn't going to W this doesn't wave the parking requirements it just tells staff how to do the calculation so if it's commercial you calculate it for commercial if it's residential you calculate it for residential which would make sense because we can't make all these assumptions that you're going to have all these spaces available we can't assume exactly right right all right so can can I make a statement yes it's kind of a lot of talk in this room tonight about the fact that there are people being moved out of their homes they can't afford to stay here a lot of talk about affordable housing uh a lot of talk about why do we need even to have zip in progress when we can do all of this without zip I just want you to know that didn't happen in the last 10 years there were a lot of um a lot of uh givebacks I don't know what word to use to the developers and I'm not talking about the local developers because we want them here we want them working we want them to keep local people working we're talking about the out of town developers who came in and got cart blanch so we now have and I know people will say it we have a parking issue we have overcrowded we have people moving out there is no affordable housing the the one affordable housing that's on Southeast o Avenue their 30-year contract is up and they are now going to regular um fair so it's not just east do it people are being pushed out of their homes because they're being offered so much money because people want to do they want to make housing not for us here in Stuart I don't know who their clientele is but it's not for us and so we need to do something to change that and that is what we're here doing today and we get a lot of support from a lot of people we get everyone has the right for their uh comment but we're trying to tell you is that we're not looking to gentrify E Stewart we're not looking to take but if you want to build here we have a code that you need to build build by and there are going to be no exceptions it would be a rare rare occasion is these are the codes this is how it will work and we need to correct what has been done over the last 10 years and that is what we're here doing today so I hope that we can just move forward thank you is there a parking problem around cotas it's not built yet yeah it's not built no you're not factoring it sound it's okay let's move on otherwise so there's I don't know if there was a motion or no no well yeah there was actually yes there was a motion I second the motion it should be for the you have a some idea what we're looking at there Mike this is the this is to create or remove any language that combines the calculation for parking and instead makes the code read that parking has to be calculated for the commercial and for the residential correct we have no supportive material of that claim the only material regarding that claim is in opposition to it so whatever I we got want some studies for that's okay yeah Mary call the RO certainly can Madam clerk commissioner Reed yes commissioner giobi yes commissioner Collins yes commissioner Clark no mayor Rich no the next one is just a note that I wrote because in the code it has uses the word Ro the word lots and lots refer to a plat and we have lots of lots have you on Versa Mike yeah1 if you actually for whatever reason it didn't print all of the things but it was it was the um it related to lots of and I think I deleted them the next one okay the next we already done it so which one we on two 4.02 yes revise lots to Parcels so lots because it it people interpreted that as a parcel I mean as a lot of record they said well that was platted in 1928 it's a lot of record and when the cottage lot was written that language in the code said if it was a lot of record on December of 2007 and what it was referencing is a parcel of record on December of 2007 because the intention was to not allow people to split Parcels of record to 5,000 foot lots and create additional developable Lots so this is just to change the word lots to the word parcel so 2.0.2 supplemental area requirements minimum with an area of lots unless varied by the boa so we'll kind of take this piece by piece the 2.42 that I just mentioned we can move on the next one correct was so we can all agree on that then just I'll bring that back cuz that was just referenc for for um staff corre the next one is so way you're going to maintain setbacks and no we haven't hit that all the setbacks and cottage Lots would be the same unless you guys otherwise this is just the word Lots just next one says no plotted lot shall contain less than 5,000 square feet and I wrote Cottage lot in parentheses at that Workshop the staff said they wanted to increase the minimum lot size back to 6,000 back to well it was five and six and 6,500 and so we haven't isn't there a section specifically mentioning Cottage lot I yes it is but that doesn't matter that this section was mentioning Cottage lot the board was saying lots of record across the board across the city to 6,000 square fet including Cottage Lots okay so what happened to people who have been uh approved with small Lots now they'll still get to be able to go through you deem it as conforming okay right prior to there's not an issue so so you could this hasn't been this the board didn't say this in the workshop but what we're talking about is anybody that has a parcel of record that has a parcel ID number as of September 4th 2024 which would have been the day that the zoning and progress took place mhm would be deemed a conforming lot that could be built on as long as they met their setbacks and did their thing so if somebody had a 4800 foot lot in East Stewart and now it needs to have a 6,000 foot lot if they had a parcel ID number and that lot was a parcel of record as of September 4th 2024 that 4,800 fo lot is a lot of record or parcel of record that is conforming and not grandfathered the distinction between grandfathered and conforming is grandfathered means it has to come into compliance somewhere in the future this is no need to come into compliance ever it is always a valid lot of record and always a valid buildable lot forever that stands if it gets damage or vacant or otherwise substantial renovation that that would protect that so they could re well they the setbacks not comp re that's a different issue okay because when they rebuild they would still have to be the setbacks no matter what if your lot of record was that you only had to have a 300 square foot lot you'd still have to meet the setbacks so that wouldn't matter if you had no lot no minimum lot size there's still setback requirements that have to be met regardless of the minimum lot size so setbacks is a different yes I and and if you ran into a situation would you go before the boa or City Board would yeah I forgot the boa is gone just just to ask for an I guess if you had to if you had something so if I had a 10,000 foot lot and I wanted to make it so for example in East Stewart there are several Parcels that are two lots lot five is 50 ft wide and lot six is 50 ft wide and it's in one one ownership and it has one parcel ID number on September 4th of 2024 that parcel is 11,000 square fet if that person wanted to come in and build one house on one side and one house on the other that would make two 5500 foot lots and your proposal is that it would need two 6,000 foot Lots so they wouldn't be able to go in front of the board of adjustment or the LPA and see seek a lot split because they wouldn't own enough land to do a lot split because they the the lot spits right now if somebody came before you they'd have to have enough land to create two legal lots and again we're looking back to previously this was just changed 2020 right it was 6,000 it was 6,000 restoring that back to but I think the point was to get affordability it was it was 5,000 for cottage Lots M and six ,000 for R1 I believe R1 7500 I believe is that R1 a yeah uh R1 a is actually 10,000 R1 7500 R2 used to be 6,000 R2 is currently 7500 R3 was 6,000 and what is it now um R2 was changed in 2020 to 5,000 and R3 was changed to 4,3 56 to meet the one acre so that would make it turning it back to the 6,000 correct and I think we have another comp comp plan problem here policy 3.8 2.9 guide for the location the city will address the affordable housing needs of extremely low income very low income to moderate income residents by continuing to promote affordable housing in City neighborhoods through revised minimum lot size requirements I'm pretty sure increasing the minimum lot size would not conform to that requirement so this is another comp plan change we're going to have to make and that's why it was changed and that's why it was changed to come into Conformity with the comp plan and it's going to go on like this all night if we keep giving lip service to affordable housing and not provide the means to do it then it doesn't make everything we doing everything we're doing is making housing more expensive my purpose for this is to to give staff something to write and then when we come back we will provide you references to Those comp plans when they're applicable and what the different stuff is right now if you guys said we're not going to address this at all it wouldn't have mattered it would have been a big waste of time for people to write it and do the double research and figure out all this stuff and figure out how many Lots applied and all the other stuff so the purpose for tonight was to wrap up the workshop and go through these things and get the summaries from you guys so that we can then come back with that information and and those issues that are being addressed I mean I know that the comp plan has an entire housing element and you know that has been there for for over 20 years but actually since the 80s we first aded it per that's a perfect example you gave Mr Mortel 10,000 lot you know or you know if we go to Six there's a fellow could have built or a person could have built make that property can only support one house that one house is going to be more expensive and if you have an existing I think I think that's the point here is if you have it existing you are conforming there should be no issue we're not taking but these changes that were made by that previous commission where we're having smaller and smaller Lots is not consistent that's not what people are looking for it's consistent with the comprehensive plan they changed the comp plan too they made changes to the comp plan to try to achieve this that doesn't make it right people are not happy with those changes and we still don't have affordable housing we still don't have affordable housing it doesn't make it more affordable makes it more dense you think these changes are going to promote affordable housing any of these neither will neither one will no neither one of them but build affordable homes we don't build affordable apartments we don't have any of that so to reference it is worse having more units will make more traffic so we're halfway there okay the next there isn't that a song the next one is the minimum lot width must be 50 feet a motion on that so I'd like to move approval that we I know that we um restore it back to 6,000 and would you need it being conforming of a date I've added if it's existing it will be conforming exactly right okay all right and that was important yes okay so you made the motion made a motion I'll second the motion we have a motion and a second by vice mayor and roll call please Mr Mayor no I had sent I had sent to staff and asked them to give me some numbers and I have you know in terms of these lots and what what the breakdown especially for a couple of particular years I'd ask him I haven't seen that information yet so I still am not comfortable but Mr Mortel says that I know you s send me an email but I didn't get to look yeah I didn't get to look at it yeah I know all right so roll aren't these materials supposed to be available for the public certain number of days before our meetings be no this is a question that I had on staff all right roll call please I wasn't saying that to you Mary I was looking you saying it yes vice mayor Collins yes commissioner Clark mayor r no no mayor Rich nope commissioner Reed yes um next one minimum lot width must be 50 ft is defined by code when I say it's defined by code the reason that language there is it's a term of art because the city code we have lots of people that live on cue sa and so their driveway might only be 25 ft wide but at the end of their their lot at the very back end it's 150 ft wide and so the city code says the average lot width of the lot and I'm just putting that in there is that minimum lot width of 50 ft as defined by code is what langu that's what it currently is right uh well if there's no minimum lot width it currently isn't anything so you're getting at least a fallback 50 feet that's fine now you could do the same thing that you've done before and that is that if you currently have a parcel of record that is um 40 feet the Lots like this you're 40t so you have to have the WID you have to have width oh yeah if you have a skinny and a wi average the other thing is is I don't believe it's the intention of the commission to change the estate Lots from r1a that are either 75 or 100 ft minimum lot width to 50 ft I think it's the minimum lot width as it relates to the very minimum under the residential code for lot widths same kind of a thing if you have it existing then you're conforming but otherwise it's 50 if you're creating a lot right the minimum right but again just like we talked about in the first two or three items if we already have somebody living on a property or doing something that's uh considered conforming but if we're creating it even when we have odd odd shape Lots we would um look to see at least there's a minimum of a 50 ft um um measurement there and we're not specifying whether it's in the back or in the frontage if the linear Frontage along the the definition and the code yeah as as in as in the code okay so alfs or do you want to vote on that one too where is this is this in 2.4.2 he pay it back I was at I think I was at 2.4.3 C okay as in for to move on I'll I'll say make a motion to do that and then we'll get the details okay motion can I just vice mayor yeah so we have a motion by commission Clark and second by the vice mayor roll call pleaseing minimum lot width must be 50 feet as defined by Cold 2042 2042 no he said 03 that's not 03 2042 a two okay yeah there like let me just see okay no lot 2042a and in subsection 2 okay no residential be in the case of irregularly we're not even changing this then no we're not changing that yeah that's why except I with orig it said 5,000 I AG have an urban code that doesn't have any minimum lot space and during the staff meetings or during the Workshops the board said across the board through the whole city so it also would apply to East Stewart the creek District the CRA north of the bridge everywhere so we are changing it that definition is just in the code and defined but that is what the board is telling us to do if you're creating a new going be the most effective but otherwise you're conforming if you fine fine if you're currently there unanimous roll call please M Madam clerk I have a motion by Ula who seconded the vice mayor May thank you uh commissioner goob yes yes mayor Rich yes commissioner Reid yes vice mayor Collins yes impervious um so what section 2.4.3 2C is what it talks about but at the first meeting we talked about reducing commercial impervious to 50% from 65% and then at the second Workshop that change to just changing impervious or maybe the third to just changing impervious on multifam properties and not addressing the commercial I will tell you that the experience of of the staff in the past is that the less impervious you allow the more likely you are to get height over in Rio they ran into an issue where they ran up against the impervious and said okay well we'll just go four stories and then they take 25% they get 25% of the impervious use back because they're putting it on top of each other so so let's leave this alone would be my ask unless you guys are it's a it's a again your guys's call we can always ask them for it yeah we could do it okay seem to be ACC comod the Technology's improved I don't there's Lu and I don't want to tie up commercial either okay so then we can move on what I don't want to tie up commercial so we're just going to leave it alone okay yeah no vote no vote necessary next item um I don't need a vote to not change something so um the next one is side setbacks being a minimum of 10 feet we have several neighborhoods that have side setbacks of 5T it was a discussion during the workshop this is another one that I I have eight feet at my house this is another one where I would say uh leave it alone so whatever it is currently just leave it ready to walk yeah because it could be very FL every unfair a small lot two t 20 could be a you know a big percentage it' be a very narrow house then Rich house okay so moving to the next one leave it alone okay there was a create there was a Crea definition regulation of detoxification facilities similar to the county regulations Sean what were your thoughts on this this was kind of your baby are we on which one was it 603 603 wait I'm I'm sure you know the county regulations yeah I'm sure you know the numbers well the county regulations were a certain number of units certain that it doesn't have to be the same as the are we discussing that now do what do you want us to do got give me a couple minutes and I'll pull it up then I don't care what the county is I'm gonna look and see I know but what is it that you guys want something like what the county so we can bring back the County's verbatim as an ordinance and you guys can change it then well the only reason why I want to look at the counties is we're not as large as the county so I think it should be even less but I'm going to look it up well I mean you're that that's that would be the the question I'm asking is do you want an ordinance similar to the county up or down going to impact the existing facilities which there are more of than people realizing well you guys will then get into the same question again is are you going to make them conforming are you going to ratify them and say if they exist that they're conforming and they get to be conforming that's hard with business existing business is conforming the reality of it buil that there's very little vacant land we're at 98% built out so everything is in place so it's we're not talking about a lot of vacant spaces so where are we with this commissioner read right he's says he needs a few minut I don't know if you guys want to come back after I pull it up we I don't know what you're are you drafting the or no I was just going to look up and see it's what he's saying is that in a general sense you could say you want a comp only correct comparable but less than the county because we're not as large only compar that's a commercial yeah Venture so you would basically be relieving all of commercial that doesn't include multif family save detox correct would that be an issue yeah I mean that would make that would make we can always address it after the fact okay be careful about that EV Chargers that wasn't me I don't know who wanted that was the state of Florida okay that's right the State of Florida passed legislation last year and this is just a note that while we're going through the code that we have to make sure it's in compliance with the state of Florida because we cannot regulate a developer and require them to put EV charging stations in and I just want to make sure is that new yeah it just got passed last year yeah um the next one I know I know Mr Patel has to put them in right so does that does that requirement still in place you it was approve it was approve but anything going forward a commission cannot require it as a condition of development and I think they relieved him from quite a bit I think what I recall for the EV Chargers I think the board relieved him from quite a bit for the requirements yes we did had some joint things too yeah okay so that would be to stay the same nothing it'll we have to come in compliance with the state law so that's fine the next one was adus and the intention was to be on the same water and electric meter as the primary residents since that is the purpose of the Adu is that's as discussed at the workshop it was that if somebody from out of town is buying these properties and looking at them as an investment property and wanting to have multiple units they're more likely to put a tenant in the back and a tenant in the front and do it as an investment property and rentb or something whereas if they're living in it and they want their motherinlaw law or somebody in their family to live out in the back and they want to care for somebody like that it wouldn't matter if they're on the same utility because they're part of their family or whatever it is and even if it's a stranger living out back if you live in the primary residence we're going to say that the purpose of this is for local people that's reason this is for local that's already the code in e in the East Stewart District local especially I'm sorry the code in theast steart is just that they have to be uh one a resident as the owner they're tied to each other I got pushed back on this the key is the primary resid I got push back on this I can tell you what was the push back we're all talking hold on I'm sorry they're older they need help their finances are stretched we've heard a lot about this and they want to get a renter in and they don't want to pay for the long hot baths and it was not an unreasonable you know if we want to help people out again affordable housing helping there you know we can provide affordable housing or we can help them pay their bills to stay where they are but you can't distinguish local any Stewart from it's a problem it's a problem I agree one of them lives in there but I appreciate the concerns of people who want yes commissioner Reed um maybe Mike can clarify too what's it cost to put another water meter in if you had to for an Adu just for the meter specific it's very expensive isn't it I think it's 4700 bucks yeah that that doesn't sound cheap to me no it's not cheap so if you had one it would make sense for an Adu that's my opinion that's the purpose and let them deal if you had a family member a friend I don't think someone like that would be as concerned for their water or electric bill to where they could wrap it up into the rent instead of someone just dividing it you know and like Mike said an investor I'm just sharing with you what I've heard and we app understand I just it's expensive to add a water meter um even if it's for Iration only how about how about a power meter a p meter this was water and power so it's what's that cost I I don't have any idea power is expensive so so it's it's fairly common to have one water meter and then subdivide the water um in apartment complexes and everywhere but it's also very common to have separate electric meters and I think I'm aware of places in in Stuart that even have three electric meters um but it's not on it's not there's a couple issues number one it can be how the power is run and getting to the right to the meter and the other is um really about the convenience of getting someone else to have the electric bill so that you don't have to go and shake them down for the $19 or whatever it is Mike for clar Mr Mayor me Mr Mayor so commission or clerk thank you so if there's a difficulty can they come back but can I ask Mr Hatton is it Lou when people are coming in for building permit and they're doing these adus um would it be the best thing to require are you looking for them to say show me how you're going to connect this to the to the main house or or you have to provide a separate um connection please come to the microphone Mr Lou sorry Mr I'm thinking if they're going to get a SE do they have to show that they're having a a separate thing if it's zon if it's zoned for single family one meter I make them upgrade the existing meter to either 300 or 400 amp where they can take the main house at 200 amps and the accessory can be either 100 or 125 okay unless it's Zone duplex that's two what Zone East Stewart or the creek if it's duplex like East Stewart or the creek in the form or downtown yeah that would be multiple you could that would be multiple meters or like that but you would have a multiple main coming in from LPL and it would be metered with the multi meters but as far as the res Cals and and all that if it's a single family Zone you're going to only get I'm only going to give you the one meter okay go ahead and upgrade to a a 400 amp three or 400 amp where you can have two main two main main Breakers go for 200 for the main house and go for 100 or 125 on the accessory I mean you so it defaults to the code then it defaults to the to the use right now when you have bmu which is business mies steart if somebody was going to do a a home with an Abu Outback and called a single family residence it would still it would have two meters or if you're in down M so you're on uh right over here on acola or seal or whatever it is and you build a house and you build a guest house behind it you can put the like where Mark breckbill was here but where Mark breckbill is living on uh acola the lady lives in the house and they converted the garage into an apartment up above it but because that's in the downtown zoning it has no restriction on it at all you could have two meters in fact I don't know if they do or not they according to Mark if if it only have one parcel number he he only gives them one water meter on the pars number and one are we talking about power or water I'm following the same thing for power okay if if on that parel Mark's only going to give them one meter for the water a grinder or gravity tie in and I'm going to give them only the main one meter that the FPL is going to get for that address and they can upgrade the surface and that's split it exactly what the commission just so I having just built an Adu I was two Ines away from having not enough slope to just tie in to my existing city sewer right so say I didn't have those two Ines then I would have been required to do a whole new system now I happen to have a guy who's over on I think I think he's on 16th um he doesn't have the fall from the original house right near right near the house right but he can go toward the road where he's going to have the fall and come back back out and VI the gravity but what's that he's going to have to pay for that new grinder right uh station we're not going to allow the grinder oh due to the fact that there's a potential that any blockage that they don't know about where the tap is before that blockage could pump could make the grinder pump from the main house and anyti orifice mean toilet tub shower everything it would come through on the house the other way so yeah go the other way so what we decided was to go ahead and make the locate toward the road which would probably give him a little bit more depth where we could go ahead and do his tap in a lot lower and find the eighth of an inch per foot to get all the way to the backyard so one more question the city we're not allowed by state law we're not allowed to restrict airb bees is that correct it's a state law I think right it's preemptive are we going to run a foul of that we are not regulating airbnbs by any way right okay because you can still do your Airbnb not in an only doesn't have a different meter for every one of their rooms okay well that's a little Mr Mayor I'm not sure if like a hotel Mr Mayor I'm not sure if this question is for Lou or for the um city manager um because income for older people who want to put in these adus my question is does the primary resident have to live in the main house because let's say that there's someone who's a widow steart and steart right well I guess my question is no they have to live in one of the one of them okay because if you're either a widow or widower you could live in the smaller space and rent the bigger house and have more income okay I just wasn't sure if it was allowed just live in one of them just live in one of them okay that's to stop the Miami guy from coming up and absolutely doing whatever sorry Miami I didn't mean to call you Miami people hope I'm not going to be Miami frame of mind it's not the Miami person it's the Miami frame of mind where are we at on this one mayor I would like to move that we um amend thank you Lou amend the Adu Citywide to include um being on the same meter and I'm going to say that I wanted whatever is in the the current um form based code for East Stewart to stay that way and I know that you're saying Citywide will you accept that amendment to your motion no I wanted to apply City that that was my major concern with the the form base code is if you wanted it to stay a a venture that was for residents in stayed for locals you would want there to be one meter if you wanted to open the door to outside investors coming in and not having to um potentially live there um or we can't monitor it anyway so they could say they are but now they have two meters it makes it more of a commercial Venture let me ask nobody's going door I'm Lou's not going door to door to check if somebody lives there anyway but at least if you have the one meter you can make that more restrict maintain that family or friend if you make it two meters now it's truly a commercial Venture and somebody could come in and and have those all be stacked up let me ask something Mr Hatton can I ask you a question again so I know that this is like a building type thing so if people have a older home and they have like issues like electrical issues they don't have enough amp and enough whatever it is if they're going to do this Adu anyhow and tie into it they're going to literally have to upgrade their electrical systems which is which is why if you look at this a lot of people in East Stewart can't even afford a roof or their AC unit to do anything on their house who's going to come in and take advantage of this is not going to be the people living in East Stewart so they can make some extra money they can't AFF to build an Adu a lot of people but it will open the door for outside investors again to come in and leverage that we've done this that also going to stop them from trying to do okay um it's I hope we'll have public comment on this in later times and in and in L of bright with looking at bright line that's my particular worry is that puts a lot of pressure on that neighborhood for development I think there's you're GNA have that issue really no okay so uh mayor I'd like to move that we uh with regard to the adus update the um I guess it would be primarily the East Stewart but form Bas code to include on the same meter right so what it was is it I wrote Citywide okay if there's a second Citywide silent now so we need a second for Miss mayor's um any other discussion now we've had it go roll call please Madam clerk mayor rich you're thinking about it you're thinking about it it's a good point it's not a bad point a good point I it's I'm gonna say no all right commissioner Clark no I want to reserve wait vice mayor Collins Reserve voted no commissioner goob yes commissioner Reed yes okay okay next one was ad you not allowed to be occupied unless the owner of the property also lives on the property yeah well Citywide this is Citywide or this is what's in East Stewart now in the form base code I understand that completely that's what it currently says in East Stewart but it doesn't say that in the Adu portion of the statute and it came up during the workshop okay so help me clarify again all for if you have a property and you're entitled to put an Adu on your property you can't rent out the main house and the Adu house correct you can only rent out one or the other but E Stewart currently is you can E Stewart already has that regulation theity does not okay so yeah then we would we need to deploy that Citywide so that's okay that's the issue another motion for that yes can I uh mayor can I make a motion that we update the Adu um code occupied you must have an owner in one of those two units Citywide not just in E I agree how do you enforce it it's a tool we're not going to go be Gusto and check on everybody but what we found in the past is that neighbors turn each other in gota so doesn't this run a follow of the Airbnb is the Airbnb can they can rent out their whole they can rent out everything right no yeah well you can airbn be your whole house I mean people can say that we're restricting them whole house too but I can't rent it to two individuals it's a single family home so if I started renting my house and broke it up into four different sections and renting it out as a 4unit apartment it would violate the single family residential of my apartment that's what happened because it's an Airbnb I'm Airbnb in both units you can't the state says not there isn't both units there's only one unit that's the you you don't have two units you have a single family home that's what we're trying to you've added which has one primary un now you're we're calculating density and we're saying you have a duplex because it's no longer a single family it's now a duplex it's two unit this is just thank you Mr Morel this is to stop uh uh uh um what is that rental thing called Airbnb the Airbnb um village so that we don't have that we still have real people living there in the real Community families friends whatever it's it's not just someone coming into town for two it's not at epidemic level we're not like talking about changeing the world here this one's not a big deal but um I seconded it yes you did I'm proud of you okay we have a motion by the vice mayor a second by commissioner Clark roll call please commissioner Reid yes commissioner goobi yes vice mayor Collins yes commissioner Clark yes marage yes how about that the next one is duplexes and for clarity I've gotten some mail and some email and some other things and some calls from some residents at Fisherman's Village this concept is not related to Fisherman's Village in any way Fisherman's Village is currently zoned for duplexes and it's platted as duplexes and the vast majority of them are owned separately from different sides this is related to the duplexes on Sixth 7th e and Flamingo and ocean and that area back there that was annexed in city of Stewart in the late 80s that was intended to be single family and has single family zoning when we got a permit application several years ago for those properties to um for somebody to improve one of the duplexes we said well we can't because it says it's single family and after looking at it looking at all the houses on the street we set it for hearing to change the zoning to duplex because there were so many duplexes we didn't think we would have any objections we were wrong there were lots of objections the entire neighborhood came out in droves and Helen McBride actually had a copy of the letter that she had saved since 1986 in her hand and it clearly stated that these properties were going to be conformed at some point to single family residential so what's happened and I talked about this during the workshop is our current grandfathering or nonconforming Clause says that you can make improvements up to 50% of the value of your property before you have to come into compliance with the new code so if one of these duplexes Burns To The Ground they'll only be able to build a single family home back as the code sits now right we've not that that doesn't change anything that is as of the 80s but but as the code sits now in the80s you could have bought both sides of the duplex for 70 grand you would have gotten the whole house both sides and so 35,000 aside but now the you can spend up to 50 th 50% of the value of the duplex on improvements so if the duplex is worth $250,000 and you spend $100,000 on in improvements to it and then you come back next year say it's worth 350 I want to do $150,000 worth of improvements and then you come back next year and it's worth five and a quarter and you say I want to do 250 in improvements what's happened is since the 80s because the value of the land and the value of the property and the value of the duplexes has continued to grow at such a fast level the they just keep they don't get they they get nicer they've been able to keep up with and they don't um go away now honestly I it doesn't really make a bit a difference to me in the city like we we don't get complaints there's not like there's an issue with it one way or the other but they are non-conforming and when we went to change that zoning to duplex to make them conforming I can tell you there's not enough rooms not enough chairs in the room to have that hearing again because every chair in the room was full what about uh tying it to like the sale of a property or something transed restri but what would you do the sale I mean I'm sure the structure is there because I I don't want my my concern is if you potentially I've thought about this one a lot right if you if you do this um you could create a more rundown area because that's true because people won't they won't they won't invest in their in the duplex right so but if the goal is to have it come into compliance then you would say with the transfer of ownership and it conveyance now way you can live there if you want to fix it up progressively it's fine last week I started to look at it a little bit I process I don't know how many of them are are are I don't know how many have ended up in dual ownership that is both sides most of them were single ownership and if they got if they got dual ownership it would be interesting to see how that happened because the title should have been a single family parcel they the city of Stewart would have had to Grant a lot split somewhere and it probably didn't it probably just is somebody went down to the property appraiser and recorded a new parcel and got a new parcel ID without commission authorization just doing it but that's something will be back for me I I would like to I know we talked about having experts or going into more depth this one in particular I would like to either maybe wait on and I don't know how you guys feel but I mean ralo court right ralo court is all duplexes I would really like to no it's not them it's but I'm saying these dup those people love living in the that that area is I mean duplexes our desirable but this is not relevant them but I'm saying this idea we're trying to restrict duplex duplex it's some of the little okay okay for all others not to become duplexes I think that was why not that's affordable housing because the the intent when they annexed in was that those would all come into compliance with being a single family home neighborhood per the county and how about this this is these buildings all exist there's no fear that there's going to be new construction between now and the zoning in progress my notes will be that we will bring back information to the board that shows ownership to see if any of them got split into dual owners I do think we should study and we can study it and we don't have to have this new language adopted by March 4th and make it by the zoning in progress because there are no new applications because they're all already zoned single family so they're all lot of them own one side and rent out the other side I don't know but I think so we that would be the case there's a lot of rentals over there could be an owner that that doesn't even live there he just owns a property can I say something more it's not emergent yeah so yeah I hear what you're doing but if would there could there be potential language that we say that if those who have are similar situated so that we're not arbitrary on on this if we describe certain things and they're similar situated properties that the city of steart is going to give x two years 18 months whatever for people to um decide if they want to um make it uh uh duplex or remain single family and they're probably going to have to coexist side by side which they're already doing now it already says that they have to make it single family that's already in place but I'm saying can we give the can we add that duplex part in it for those who want to do it I I hear you say that some of the neighbors said that they didn't want to have duplex but maybe that let us change now say you don't want to have it you don't want to have it you don't have a mix you don't want to have a mix they will barbecue you okay all right that's fine one of the neighbors is raising his hand in the back of the room neighbor Mr M I thought Mr Mista lived on the other side of I thought that you live by do the other side of dolphin no I don't live on the wealthy side all right so that whole episode was started by me okay and the Sy the system works because all of a sudden you had these zoning change signs on one corner so the what got the oper going at least for me was the city answer to those two duplexes on Flamingo okay which is where where the holy show started the city's answer was to rezone like Three City Blocks a total of 13 or 14 single family homes into duplex so I I photocopied the map and I and I went door too and handed that stuff out and overwhelmingly people that are Liv in that single family neighborhood did we all viewed that as the beginning of of the end with all the talk about affordable housing and and we want our neighborhood to stay exactly how it was so the Uproar was about the scope of the city's answer to to make to make these two Renegades call it whatever you want uh structures or duplexes you know to it just look like man this is going to be game on people buying up these little houses and making them all duplexes okay and Helen had paperwork and that's Ocean Avenue I know that ocean I think the whole side of the street the simple answer is hey they're there grandf follow those two in and just call it a day that's it they're grandfathered in now oh they are okay okay yeah okay so but that that is the but that was the reaction the reaction was to how the city's answer was going to be to rezone three or four city blocks 14 single family homes all into the duplexes that's what raised the up yeah so what in response to this I will bring back the information on it but we don't have to worry about it for the zoning in progress because nothing changes in the zoning in progress so we can move on to that one okay the next one was table four and this is the exact same question we had about the thousand feet of commercial and the far and the density because we brought it up at a second Workshop so we've already talked about it and we can go on 800 right but that's just what it says here all agreed we dealt with that yes okay then self storage the um and that included Self Storage no no this is different um I have 202 coming up here um I'm concerned where are you Mr um it is the self storage is the next one um the question is what do you want to do with it there was some discussion about the consensus that seemed to keep showing up was that everybody thought Self Storage was fine as long as it wasn't in their neighborhood so they don't even like it on us one or us one or downtown or East Ocean and so the real issue is is that it's currently allowed in commercial and in in reality Self Storage is a very loow intensity use it doesn't make noise it doesn't have traffic so you don't have any doesn't have jobs well that's the other thing and it doesn't have taxes it's Warehouse right so to me because it's Warehouse it kind of Falls as an industrial Warehouse that's what it is corre and so you could and again you could do the same thing you've done before the ones that are in and built are allowed and conform and they get to stay but we have situations in the past we coming up where we had self storage units applying to build next door to self storage units I mean that means we are a bunch of Hoarders yes we are but the point of it being is that yeah I mean they don't care where those there's not there's very little land left in Stewart industrial land well any land for any purpose whatsoever say industrial it doesn't benefit the city at all when Prime real estate is converted into Self Storage so mayor I'd like to move that we uh limit Self Storage to Industrial Warehouse um is this going to be future any future and then the would be this going to be a bird Harris issue no because we're not taking anybody's property right away okay and anybody that owns self regulating this anybody that owns a current Self Storage is going to be treated as conforming okay existing okay will consensus conforming self second that motion the self storage on commercial is that industrial over there that's commercial that's commercial right right and the self right here on us one if the cut off road is UN commmercial is commercial now yeah most of them are commercial yeah so when we change it what we're going to we'll have the same language that says we can identify them these guys with business taxes for Self Storage are going to be conforming so if they burn down they can build them back there's not going to be any detriment there's not going to be any taking exist okay nothing's going to take away from them it's just we're not going to build any new ones next door to them or whatever it is on Commercial residential or commercial so there is a motion there is a second roll call please commissioner Clark yes commissioner goobi yes commissioner Reed yes vice mayor Collins yes mayor Rich yes and this was another one came up in another one of the workshops that no one wanted shared Park we've talked about that already so we can keep going the next one was the um Urban code PUD related to half units mayor I'd like to move that we take half units out entirely I had voted for that the comp it is in the comp the one project there on East Ocean and then actually um there's one on two on o because I think we are one do we need to discuss this or I have a commission Reed Highway we have a second do we have a second I'm sorry we're I'll second it okay we have a motion by the vice mayor second by commissioner Reed any discussion or can we just go to roll call no I was just rereading it to I think we're gonna have to have staff bring I mean talk are only available in an urban PUD at the discretion of the commission our discre could vote no now we only have two proposed ones right you have one built and one one proposed yeah and so this would be removing that entirely correct that's what your motion is yes yes no that's no longer affordable roll call please commissioner Collins yes VI I'm sorry commissioner Clark no mayor Rich no commissioner goe yes SE commissioner Reed yes Mr Collins is now the vice mayor I don't care I made a sign for us pin you need a PIN next one in E Stewart zoning sfd which stands for single single family duplex duple the commission discussed at the third Workshop to allow duplexes to continue but only by commission action Cur they're available by right where's uh where's our density within a p we're gonna get there okay oh I don't see it here but the 20 units we'll talk about it before we leave currently allowed only by commission action forgive me so back to where we were and where is this Mike sfd Stewart I know but third it's in the it's three the it's in the Stuart it's in the East Stewart Urban code overlay that um was adopted and it okay special zoning codes East Stewart neighborhood required board presentations and so this no it's currently you have single family duplex you have three types of zoning you have bmu sfd and um like kind of gr and gr gr corre which is and so in the single family duplex zoning currently in E Stewart if you have no minimum lot size no minimum lot width and by right you can build a duplex why would you build the accessory dwelling unit and comply with the accessory dwelling unit regulations of being have to be smaller than the front house and all that stuff when you could just build a duplex anyway and have it either way I mean it's like so it it just this isn't prohibiting it what the board said was they just wanted duplexes to be approved by the commission but you know that's going to be a chilling um people aren't going to come in uh they're going to and it's just going to be a way to um ironic ironically the the um last time uh the Hartman's tried to build some duplexes on Boulevard correct the entire neighborhood of East Stewart came out against it and rather than even dealing with it the Hartman's just conceited and built single family homes anyway so when I put this down I honestly didn't think it was going to be much of a rub because E Stewart went berser right that's because they all have single family homes along that area and they wanted to have something that was compatible with what they have now but there are probably other people in other areas where the public housing is um there's lots of duplexes there and there might be somebody who has an infill who wants to do a a duplex close to that because I know that um there's a Mardy property where the house was taken down on Bahama and I saw there's places where people could do infill and even though habitat when they came in and I built those homes they built single family but um I nobody has said anything to me about whether or not you know it would affect them coming in with a particular thing and and it is commission action is required but I just want to make sure that people know that just because it's like that doesn't mean that it would never be approved or something but that commission action does um create the opportunity for public neighbors to come out and then you can see okay that's not a problem in this particular Street everybody's okay or no this is not okay that mechanism that's there by having a be cuz neighborhood and neighborhood values are important when we're doing this kind of stuff um but I don't you know I don't want to well we'll have a chance for people to come and see we're not voting for or against anything tonight it's just yeah I know I know to move forward with it so mayor I'd like to move that we make that update to the I don't think sfd is in is it in Creek as well no it's just it's just in the East Stewart Zone and it's um your ESN 23 or I'm sorry ESN for and the creek has a lot of duplexes over there I mean that's all that's there the residential in the creek in that in the part of the creek from Colorado to A1 taking away by by right of some but I I want to be clear that we are it's not it's not just uh sfd you're you're taking that grro and bmu that's in that neighborhood and it's reverting back to SF single family home and then not not just duplex but bmu and grro you can do it but it would have to come through commission action so we have duplex we have duplex here but that was the conversation so it's anywhere in East Stewart where a duplex would be would require commission action so what what we dis what I had brought up and we discussed at that meeting was within that interior where there exists bmu and grro that that would be single family home but that you could but hang tight but that you could with commission action leverage that bmu or grro but it would have to you would have to go through commission action and then on your main thorough fars like MLK and East or not East um 10th where it's up against the street that it would remain grro or bmu Like It Is Well we have an overlay area in there and that's why we have this I mean that we can they can come in and and and decide side um you know to to whether or not to to use the the mix use um uh develop with mixed use which is the the bmu I I think that I don't know why we' want to change but you would have to go through commission action saying that it's single family but then you can do this corre I think that because that neighborhood because people want to have the option to still openly without having to come through so many hoops well we want public we want public input correct on if we're going to take a single family neighborhood and turn it into city place right so we want to make sure that if you're going to change the single family home neighborhood that you go through commission action and we can have a hearing unless it's on the main we had public input for two years before we put the you heard how frustrated Albert was that on MLK there's a commercial property imagine imagine in the interior and that was there that's on the lot across the street if that was a commercial it's not going to happen if you Zone it's already said that the only change that was made was on East Avenue where they were they had to combine single family and Commercial otherwise they couldn't develop they had to combine it these were not that that was not the input that I had given at that meeting it wasn't just restricted ASP it was across all of that interior of E Stewart if it's in that interior not on that main thoroughfare I named each one of those streets individually as we were going through it whether it's bmu or grro you can only leverage that through the mechanism of coming in front of the commission and having a hearing so that the commun come in and say you know what we don't want that to be a business mixed use three-story thing or yeah it's okay they should have that input and if we just make it by right that you can do grro or bmu we're moving exactly we're removing the neighborhood's ability to have a say so let the overall um overlay still be mix use and they have to come in with each individual thing if they need to it will be it will it will be single family but what will be behind single family with commission action will be the ability to to uh do bmu there isn't it but you can't do it by right you would have to do it with commission action so it should be single family SL bmu SL whatever and the current map is it exists is fine but wherever it says grro it's still single family unless you have commission action and then you can leverage grro or bmu except for the main th Affairs well we'll see the language and I hopefully we'll have people come out who live in the neighborhood because again this is all about neighborhood and all about making sure that things fit for people who currently live there and hopefully it will maintain a certain character in the future so this gives them that opportunity correct yeah gives them the opportunity to say what happens and then those Property Owners on East right they can still do something or sell that property or develop it but we would have to have the community come in and and be able to speak to it all right well okay should we vote on that mik we spent two years listening to the community and we came up with the form based coded you don't have consens so I don't know why that doesn't count okay so mayor I would like to move that we uh I guess it would be a map Amendment going through there but that would include well right that's a land use you're say F future is just the duplex for all three zoning to be by commission action conditional view okay if duplexes are going to come in that's fine right but not just duplexes in single family sfd grro and bmu a duplex has to be approved by the commission but also a bmu or grro has to be approved B so and gr so any use at all bmu being approved other than a single family home in that single family home neighborhood okay come that's a whole different thing so well it's but it's I mean we it still can be included to the extent that we can bring it forward and address the requirements of approval but it's what what I now I'm understanding what the vice mayor is saying is he's saying unless it's single family home and East stward if it's any other use it requires essentially a conditional use or a hearing in front of the commission for approval except for the main th like okay that's very heavy handed in the core of that neighborhood that's a single family home neighborhood we we that would require a map amendment to rezone because really what we're talking about doing like you would say it's J with commission action is that a compl issue it's it's not a comp plan issue it's a so so the comp plan of downtown already exists as a land use but a future land use map of making it here there or anywhere would change East Stewart has a future land use of East Stewart within it it has zoning right of sfd grro and bmu so if you're changing the zone from R1 to R2 it's not a comp Amendment it's a zoning change in this case You' be changing the zoning from SF from G from bmu to sfd right or or just BM you're changing taxed to say that anything other than single family needs commission approval that's really what the the text amendment is offering and it's a text Amendment but then you accepting it to different single family home neighborhood if that's the goal yeah Mr Mayor ask I don't know if that is the goal of that NE Ro I haven't talked to those people yes I'm sorry commission question is for uh the city manager uh Mr Brinkley I believe was here earlier and if we had this in place the community would have had input before a business moved in which is cutting and slicing no isn't cutting and slicing and that business has been commercial there since the 50s but there still would have been Community Action they would have come in and said we don't want that tight well so well so are you saying that all of the businesses in these stward are non-conforming no no no now we got problem no no I'm not saying so they would all be allowed to stay again you would be in compliance so there would not have been a hearing nobody would have known then under what Albert's saying oh so they wouldn't have known anyway right okay and then I had a question but M Jo was asking question oh yeah let me ask Mike one question we only have three more to go um so I had sent we don't need to take a break I sent a note to um to miss to to miss cougler we don't have three more to go I don't know well just on this page on this page on this page um but um I wanted to I'd like to see then uh because I hear this idea that uh E Stewart is a single family um Community but there's all this public housing and there are lots of um some apartment units and so on so I'd like to see a true breakdown of what's in East Stewart in terms of the residential types that are there now um both by for what it's wor just for my sake just so that we can answer that question direction to staff to come back with an ordinance maybe before March 4th if we're doing the study for every single part need Ste there's no way we're going to do it I know I hear you I hear you you know exactly what's over there I know there was there was commercial especially during um you know during segregation before before desegregation then that has not been the case right so at this point I hear that people want to put back some commercial but it's not going to be blackowned businesses it's going to be developers that are going to come because you can't make sure that it's at Community it's going to be outside interests that come in and build mix to you so unless you want it to be city place the only way to protect that neighborhood and and maintain its character of what it is is not allow that Redevelopment of that neighbor it's never going to be what it was during segregation it's not going to be blackowned businesses that own um one and two story commercial along East that's not going to happen all we can do by allowing mixed use in there is going to be as bright line shows up that area becomes very ideal to have a nice little mixed use um village for bright line and now to to Albert's point you can't live there Albert's been in here Mr Brinkley has come in before and said he wants us to promote businesses in East Stewart okay we are now saying no it's not going to be our local people though that are are able how can you say that because for 60 years it's been Zone commercial and nothing has happened but now that bright Line's there the capital was there it would bright that's opportunity for everyone including the people who live in the community and then and gentrify it they're going to sell that is what's going to happen you know this why am I you're making me like John the Baptist over here in the W like you know exactly what's going to happen it's going to be City Place they know what's going to happen confused I don't what you talking about if you wanted to maintain that neighborhood and allow it to continue sell their property it needs to be a single family home unless you you're going to deny them the opportunity to improve their Community by nonsense or else it would have over the last 60 years come on come on where are we at Mr Mortel who stopped that from three do you want the so the agenda item was the duplexes required commission action and vice mayor Collins has added that bmu and grro for other than single family residen would also require commission action correct so mayor I would like to move a mo paternalistic I'd like to move a motion along those lines mayor okay is there a second for that I'll second it roll call please Comm Clark I'll agree with it for discussion sake hopefully we'll get some good responses from staff on how this might worker Reed yes commissioner goobi yes mayor rich without having spoken to the community in depth I say no vice mayor Collins yes let's take a let's take a 10-minute break okay thank you mayor thank you madam clerk so e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e he's put reconvene this meeting Mr mortell next item please okay so during the break I was looking at the notes of the agenda item and up above in the third one where it said remove density bonus and parking waivers for mixed use the density bonuses notes also reflected the commission's comment on density bonus and I also found it in table four where I've got a comment here related to the far to address the density bonus as well and we didn't the Commission in uh the first workshop and the third I believe talked about it very vaguely but didn't specifically say a number and they said what is the amount Allowed by right and so it's different in different zoning categories but in multif family you're allowed 15 by right and then in commercial you're allowed 10 by right depending what part of the city depending on what the zoning is or what the future land use is and so the real issue is what is the density bonus and the density bonus is the up to 30 units an acre part and so the um discussion by the board was to reduce it from up to 30 to an up to number of less than 30 um do you guys want to take a crack at that I mean I'll start at 29 going once a half no half all right so I'll give input I would say five units beyond what you have by right should be the wiggle room that we're talking about adding additional density so if you can have 10 you would go to 15 if you can have 15 you would go to 20 um I've been on so I can I I what section are we in we're back to two it depends on what you're in because it's it's all over the place because for example section 2.3.0 7 is a maximum dwelling per units per acre for every single zoning District R1 R3 RP B1 B2 B3 B4 cpud IP Etc so if I look under commercial where it's B that would be 10 units and then under uh MX PUD it's got some 15s and um right right but that's straight zoning and then downtown is 15 it with up to 30 and um so I don't know so instead of 30 you would be at 20 okay I mean I if that's the consensus of the board of the inst I'm pretty sure that's not the consensus but and then and then and then the other one is E Stewart 15 it was 17 so if it's five more then it's not 20 it's 22 I mean to the point is in order to grant that they'd have to come in we'd have to approve it so I don't I don't see the need yeah and again you're not saying that there is no additional density then I don't see the point of it hang tight you're not we're not saying um we're capping it at what you can have by right we're giving some room there for density bonus so you're going from not specifically East Stewart but if you can get 10 you can go up to 15 but it does create a harder negotiation for that density you're you're giving up more in that PUD to be able to achieve that density so instead of being able to get 30 units per acre you know you would be looking at 20 which I would say most of the projects even right the apartments are going to be around the 20s anyway we have zero multif family right we have zero neighborhood District we have less than 20 acres of office residential what you're really talking about is two Parcels you have the property well well I guess there's three but you have the Eden Mar parcel that's already got an application in that falls under whatever the prior law is anyway corre however there's a lot of reasons basis is for the commission to vote how it votes anyway then you have the 24 acre Pro parcel at the south end of Stewart that used to be called the SPs property or the gayman property whatever I don't know what they call it now was once called The Fountains of St were um and then um I I don't I'm not really familiar with any others see phase to that's not in yet but we might be looking at a built environment already right so C Co it's phase two we could be looking at you then now we're talking about Redevelopment you're not talking which is isn't this which that is what we're talking about sorry wouldn't all of this be important for redevelopment if lands are annexed into I don't know because the next question we're going to get into is are you going to reduce the density of harborage and of Cedar Point and of Kingswood and of Circle Bay and of the aou property you are conforming you are conforming as of September you can rebuild what you have but if you're going to build an you know redevelop and bring in a an application for PUD that will include multi multi for multiv family then you would have to apply by the new rules and the new density okay or if a new property is annexed into the city now it's a new property coming it should come under the new rules that's true now the only thing is we've reviewed those there is the likelihood of any annexations is really low because all the bordering properties are developed nature finds a way well doesn't generally you can't find there's no land nature finds land but I mean that part doesn't matter to me it's more of the intention of the code so you guys are saying across the board in all different zoning and land if you look at table 2.0 3.09 it talks about and out of9 it's the second one 08 okay so multif family would drop from 30 to 15 office residential would drop from 30 to 15 um commercial multif family so starting out C in C 30 30 30 30 that's the maximum all those goes down to 15 we right now it's 15 by right and then you have so if you go to the Chart above that you can see what the by rights are and then you go to the next one and it's maximums and so I'm just trying to and that's why these numbers that are in the chart don't really because it's all over the code there's hundreds of references that we have to go back and cure and fix and address correct but what I'm trying to show you is that the chart above which is 2.0 3.08 is the maximum dwelling units per acre by right and then you get like 1530 and down turn Redevelopment and things like that and those land uses then if you go down below to um 23309 it's per PUD and under PUD you can go up to 30 units an acre because it's commission action right and you guys are saying that you want us to change those to five above what they had by right under the prior thing so if it was 10 by right they can go to 15 as a bonus if it was 15 by right they can go to 20 as a bonus and if it was 17 by right they can go to 22 as a bonus because that's that he's Steward and that's really the the three primary numbers Y and then um in addition to that there's the projects that were already approved at above 20 units per acre that were 24 units and things like that do be conforming as I've SE right and there's conforming becomes complicated as well because like you have the guy in East Stewart that didn't get the permits that um has seven apartments that we're holding him back and he has to come before the commission for a conditional use so we're going to need to add language that only those that were legally Legally binding on September 4th 2024 will be carried forward those that weren't will not they have to he'll have to still come before you guys but his density is going to be limited to 22 units per acre not 30 units an acre I don't think you would have to meet the parking requirement right oh yeah all of it it's going to be a new application that he has to make and and then I don't know if there's others I just the problem is I don't know if there's others so if we're going to have this overlaying thing that we adopt everybody that okay everybody and everything in the built environment is approved by right I need to add language that says unless you didn't get a permit unless you weren't you know if you were cheating by right up front you're still cheating and that doesn't count there needs to be caveat right yes so I just want to be clear on that so may I'd like to make a motion along those lines so would be a density bonus to reduce the density bonus from 30 um to five over the amount that was allowed by right correct with the caveat and then all of the property that are in that are currently built would be not grandfathered in but deemed deemed conforming yep but that's different so long as they are not like you know by per that they are actually conforming or they were in conforming on September 4th and that would 2024 and that would span across all of our right all of our Cod so if Kingswood had to rebuild some buildings are they gonna have to rep Park that no because they're conforming if the parking ising coning grandfathering grandfathering is where you have to right actually bring it into the bring it up to the new code so if one of their buildings got torn down or burned down they'd have to bring up all the parking to build that building back if you deem them as a legal whatever their density is its density is then it's different and parking Etc too otherwise Mr Mayor then I would have to move into your ad Adu because where would I go well you don't want to live we'll bring those examples back at the next meeting anyway because there's probably going to be a few that do create a Yeah question which we can work through if I have a second oh sorry second that motion can I confirm that this is for 2.03 one0 .1 Z it's not for innumerable has nothing to do with numbering not on the chart put it at the bottom I have some notes at the bottom anyway yeah it's off the chart call it a just say density bonus thank you boy roll call please Madame clerk commissioner Collins yes commissioner goobi yes commissioner Reed yes commissioner Clark this more information mayor Rich no okay so now moving on on um the multif family parking shall be in this is 6.01 point0 3 those other two the minimum lot size we have already addressed that footnote one is just a note to me to make sure we don't miss it in the code um multif Family parking shall be increased by 05 for each category and no shared parking um obviously the note here was during the thing staff recommends utilizing the Institute of Transportation Engineers I would like to remove that part yeah because we're going against it correct well that's just those are these are the notes so I would not so the motion is that um but that also we allow uh the the again the parking foring informing but we update the multif family parking to increase it by 0 five for each criteria okay and then conforming properties yep okay oh I forgot the new condition it's 2.5 units instead of 1.5 it's not by5 because it wasn't two before a two-bedroom unit was 1.5 units per acre or per uh spit per unit and you guys change it to 2.5 units per space the compound says we're supposed to you know reduce heat island reduction and all this excessive parking is just crazy it's just crazy and all the studies now show it'll be really nice when that sb102 project comes in and they can't park it though so do we need to discuss this I think we've touched on almost all these issues so we have a motion in a second unless you well I just need Clarity is it5 for each category is it okay um we need a mo we need to call roll on that yeah we already had a motion right I believe we have a second did we have a second on this we have people complaining about this okay commissioner giobi was a second commissioner re we have a motion a second roll call please commissioner Reed yes commissioner goobi yes vice mayor Collins yes mayor Rich no commissioner Clark which one is is 3.02 6.1.0 the increase for parking multi family unit full parking for okay I voted against that before yeah the next one the um this is we've talked about this already this is the mixed use full parking and Commercial full parking so we'll go on sh this was to increase the shade trees to 60% of the property and I think it's currently at 50% this creates problems I mean well it's so it doesn't it it's not a significant thing to me one way or the other shade trees are good yes it does create a situation where they would have to come before the commission to deviate from the 60% and if they said to you well look I put too much cement in I can't grow an oak tree right you have the discretion to remove some of the cement or let them have a waiver on the oak tree by asking them to plant oak trees in Memorial Park oh what's that called mation mitigation I mean again it's not huge but it's it's just a tool when it comes right down to it or in a deficit area where obviously it's on Memorial Park I don't need more trees in no we don't have they don't have to conform to it right obviously well it's always commission can deviate this is straight zoning so mayor I'd like to move along those lines that we update the commercial shade tree calculation to that commercial it would be the right again it was the uh what you said at the was just in the multif family okay and one of the things that uh I believe commissioner Collins said is there'd be more green space for children or shade for kids or something like that we're not we're actually but this is multi family we're actually going to reduce greens by of the city with our excessive parking requirements that's also a a fact of life so thankfully we'll have some trees though shaded hot the comp plan also says we should strive to have more compact development to create more green space both for public use and for to treat our environment better but we're ignoring that as well so L cars we're moving oh no more cars you think so less density more cars I don't I'm not allowed to quote study so I don't know where that leaves us all right so do we have a motion here may I'd like to increase the shade tree calculation for mix or for uh any any project that includes now you're expanding it to any that includes multi family not commercial it's just multif family only multi we're not doing mixed use you're not going to mixed use is to be multif family you don't have a single family home in Walmart right I know I just so yeah it's always multi family but if I have a second there are some people I'll second that motion anyway Mr mortell do you have sufficient Clarity roll call please Madam clerk commissioner Clark yes vice mayor Collins yes mayor Rich yes commissioner Reid yes commissioner goobi yes with the lead certified you're just taking that out so the lead certified is and I've been talking with staff about it the truth of it is is all of the appliances all the stuff that was required back in 2004 when that was adopted technology has already outbeat it so every you can't buy stuff that doesn't meet these requirements so even if you went out of your way you couldn't not violate this and I think it's it's in the comp plan so but we'll go we'll look to clean this up but the we don't actually apply this portion of the code to anybody anymore we used to give rebates but now every single stove and every single air conditioner and every single window already meets the criteria take and the light bulbs all meet it is that true can we just remove it every commercial development every single window every like meets our stuff that was written in 2003 not me so from address it in a different level but the stuff we have right now ink y we're good on that one it doesn't matter with regard to signs we were talking about well that's not for the yeah that's not for the zoning in progress we'll move on except for this I don't know what that means and then um a new Sunset date was required for 6 sorry where are we Mr Mortel 6019 c um let me just see what it was uh are we agreeing that a consultant shall be hired to rewrite the sign code did we agree on that yeah and that's what we're agreeing is it doesn't matter it's not going to be in the okay um zoning in progress so and I don't even see that we have a 60109 but has that anybody applied for assign and not been oh I think it it was just that it was so messy it was hard we really needed somebody to come in and look at it um so if you yeah okay I'm confused why zip does apply to sence it does not progress okay doesn't have there's no ch ch in progress but the next one is where I wrote a new Sunset will needed to be added to account for these changes if you look at 6019 which is entitled the steward parking code it's got all sorts of language in it like Stuart parking code applies to vacant building or structure which as of July 1st 1995 and things like that but what I'm going to interpret that your direction from the board tonight is this compliance issue of those to to update that language to say in compliance as of September 2024 for these new parking codes that are the increase of 0.5 for everything and those will be the new dates that we add for the um compliance dates that need to be addressed and that's with that noal address so we don't need language there um location of parking spaces 60111 B okay just to be clear 6.01 point11 loc uh I'm sorry 09 a new there's no need for a new Sunset date there's no need for a vote you guys voted on the Sunset date ago when you voted on the compliance with like those that are already built being in compliance as of the DAT zoning in progress next so the next write the code we've done it already well we will be doing that okay that's fine we just one one one they're not going to be having a Merry Christmas no so then the next one is the um 6.01 point11 B which is the location of uh um required parking um this is where you have to have parking in front of or it's got the different locations and maps of the parking I don't this is really applies to the commercial parking spaces so I don't think we need to really address it it doesn't we didn't get into it I think they came from the first workshop and we moved on you're talking about the off street parking schedule Mike or no yeah yeah we never yeah the 60113 all of it yeah we never discussed that what we talked about was not applying it because it applied to Commercial and limiting this zoning in progress really to the multif family issues and as multi it and you can always come back later and change it if you want to anyway um and again I don't when you get right down to it on the US ones and stuff like that parking is not um the issue the issue with parking is in the parking exempt and the irony is that code doesn't apply the parking exempt um okay so then are we agreed 6.01 point10 a I don't know why I wanted a whole number there let me just see um so in the event the computation of the number of required parking spaces resulted in a fractional space the number of required spaces is the nearest whole number and that would be rounding down or up right before it was rounding up4 that means five spaces right not six spaces everybody agrees no change needed okay we all agreed on that okay all new development must comply with minimum landscape standards um I think that where you all in agreement there anyway um the public right of way should not be modified by home owners this is these were made but don't forget this is not zoning we own public RightWay a homeowner can't come get a permit to make a parking spot on public RightWay anyway so we don't need to rewrite code to address that and then Future No gravel so what so on 19 what is the existing is this what it is existing or we're changing it let me see what you have on the RightWay you're talking about well that what I'm saying is you guys brought that up at the workshop but the city owns the RightWay correct so you don't have zoning on rways like no one's going to apply to build a building on the RightWay if somebody builds a parking space on it we have the right right now to say no take your parking space off all I'm asking is we're not changing anything well correct right it's not we're not we have the issue on that one street where we're giving licenses this is not a CH this is not a change of our code there's no text amendments related to it right do do we have to add though in no future the gravel situation we don't have it written down anywhere because the code is designed for people to apply for permits if we even put that gravel language in the code it would infer that they could apply for the permit in the first place and the reality is we can grant licenses to people to do it but we really discourage it because it creates all sorts of problems because the truth is if you really wanted to be annoying to your neighbor you could go park your car in their parking space that they built because it's still public rideway and we can't give it to you exclusively and then we'll have neighbors fighting over who parks in which one okay I'm so glad you said that publicly right I that room wasn't full of those people this is not interesting enough get me please don't fight over parking spaces right we had a little issue over on North Carolina yeah just recently that we were dealing with but and and that policy we've adopted internally with staff is that there will be no gravel it'll be a hardened surface and we will be you know limiting and it can't be storage and right and other stuff um and then so no action and then right no action okay and then the others are just notes to me a reference to table four is in the code before the reference to Table Three and to me it should be an order and the last P read and Lord giobi I have no idea what you want that's but what that did is into your a you what it did is those were for I know what it was WRA them around the top I'm slap Happy anybody else has anything else they'd like we do we haven't done enough we do have something else well we have another item right we still have to adopt the resolution approving exhibit a as described we had a motion already done that which just it's this is the discussion of ital so we' need approval of it and um okay let's go with exhibit a first a motion to adopt is it's the resolution with exhibit a as so you're right and we've already have a motion in a second we do yeah that was how we got the discussion started and took public no you're right that's correct so any more discussion no Mr Mayor we just Mr Mayor may I clarify you understand what we're voting on Mr may I got a question um May I clarify am I removing any of the warehouse Clauses yes I would appreciate that since I have to since I have to fix my signature um in fact you take them all in fact vice mayor Collins removed the one uh uh professionally acceptable material item that was referenced so you want me to take out that where CL yes please the whole Clause I would appreciate that thank thank you for reminding me is that the only Warehouse Clause that needs to be removed yeah it's yes yes so we probably need to amend the motion I think it was part of the it doesn't matter because it's as amended by exhibit a anyway we've amended it 40 times okay but we all know the warehouse Clauses out right who made the motion I'm happy to amend my motion vice mayor I'll second the motion thank you vice mayor so are we all clear on what we're voting on commissioner Reid yes okay roll call please commissioner Clark yes to move this further along commissioner goobi yes commissioner Reed yes vice mayor Collins yes mayor Rich yes and then um commissioner Reed did you want to relieve the commercial that was your proposition yeah I I could make a motion to remove the zoning in progress unless it's applicable to multifam attachment that so relieving um commercial from the zoning in progress as long as it does not include multi family M zoning progress relative to commercial progress commercial properties as long I mean we need to be careful about the mort I well to do a resolution to be reopt by you at the next meeting we'll make it effective tomorrow but we'll come back to you with language on it okay staff's intent that we understand it to be is that as long as the application does not include any multif family then or anything that's essentially affected by progress adoptions then it can move forward that's how we should and if that's worded that way and I'll second that motion okay we have uh a motion by commissioner Reed and a second by commissioner goobi is there any public comment on this [Music] issue any see see none does the commission feel the need for further discussion regarding this item no no no roll call please Madam clerk mayor Rich yes commissioner Reed yes commissioner Clark going forward yes commissioner goobi yes vice mayor cins yes Mr Mayor um thank you for that commissioner Reed welcome M Mr Mayor Mr Morel we're just going to follow the regular notice when we have this to send out to in the newspaper or we're going to send information to neighborhoods or put it on the website or the utility bill so that people know that this Zone in Citywide is coming in Keith burbank's here I'm sure you're going to see it on TC pal I'm sure pretty people pretty sure people are aware of it but I haven't been instructed to do any additional notice other than the same required notice that we do for every other ordinance right if you want additional or some other type of notice please tell us what that is and we will follow it but we will comply with the state law as it relates to the notice when we come up with those days in January I'd like to at least put it on the Marquee on 10th Street okay you're talking about the day for the LPA meeting and the yeah okay Absolutely I'll make sure that um that happens and you think'll be a to get this all done before the end of the zip going to be tight but it depends on on the board I mean we're GNA the staff is going to bring it back to the boards and bring it back to guys TR to do it it's just doesn't get voted on I don't know but we'll have some language back um and did we have one more item is that yes we do so sure can we move on to the east Stewart historical advisory advisory committee bylaws review um do we have a staff making a present so I called it advisory bylaws review just because I didn't want to offend or alienate anybody or whatever you want to call it but the reality of it is is that when the um representa when the East Stewart Advisory Board was originally created it sunset it after three meetings and it was over with and then after the third meeting the chairman of the board came to a budget workshop and at the budget Workshop asked the the commission to make it a a full-time board and the commission accommodated made it a full-time board and directed the CRA to have four meetings a year the intention for the board was to give input on projects in East Stewart and give historical data information or or or uh Legacy type things to the project but multiple times last year there were meeting when there wasn't anything in East Stewart pending and so the CRA had to create agenda items and then the board actually started requesting special meetings and they were requesting special meetings on stuff that was way outside of their Authority and staff doesn't have the ability to say no and so the bylaws are where that's driven and what we were proposing is that we bring back bylaws that say meetings as needed correct rather than four times a year and then anytime there's a project any Stewart we obviously will still bring the the board together and get the information but if there's no projects pending there's no need to have that meeting because there's nothing really for the board to discuss plus we had multiple meetings that we didn't make Quorum so we spent the money on the advertising we put the agenda together did all this stuff and then no one showed up anyway because the board members knew that it wasn't for anything in E Stewart because there wasn't anything pending what if uh Mike what if we did in section uh 2121 if we got rid of the B special meetings may be held at the discretion but if we just did regular meetings shall be held um on on their discretion basically but not to exceed four times a year or more than one per quarter I don't I don't care how many meetings they have it should be as needed so if there's if there's 12 Contra they can me 12 times okay let's try to have an organized I but that's your guys's call why have a meeting if you don't have anything to discuss you should have a meeting when you have something to discuss yeah but if you have ad as needed do you want it to not exceed a certain number or no you just want it as needed for every fiscal year at least three times a year well that's what I saying like keeping it up minimum is what we are trying to avoid yeah got a minimum of meetings oh it should be as you need to have a meeting if you have a meeting not to we do a maximum of 12 because it would be or 11 because it' be monthly okay and then um and to exceed a monthly and the discretion is at the discretion is Staff right I mean that's your oh it's going to be as described in the bylaws if it's related to an if there's an East Stewart project or eastart PUD coming forward you need it has to go before them and so they'll have a meeting to hear that presentation all right but it's only it's it's it's a Nuance because the crb addresses the art right and so it's actually creating a it's making it more expensive for a project in E Stewart to go forward because the project in E Stewart still has to pay to go to the crb board and do the advertising for the crb but they also have to pay to do the advertising for the East Stewart board now this didn't it didn't affect him last year because we did the the the meetings were based upon guy Davis and then based upon the Willie Gary property so the applicant was C city of Stewart in both times they were necessary but now the city's out moving forward the applicant is going to be a private person so they're going to have to pay for the advertising and they're going to have to pay for the notice and they're going to have to pay for all this stuff and they're going to have to pay for it again to do the CR on it but the scope is to procure historical information correct it's not just to review any project in E Stewart it's just as but it's still for every project in East Stewart to give historical information related to that project related to East stward so that if they have to do because they have to do 1% of vertical cost as public art the board is recommending here's some historical data that to include in your public art or a mural or to include in in the construction or whatever it might be okay I'm just saying it's it's a you know it it needs to be recognized that it is going to create an expense that's more than other projects it could be rolled into the crb but I don't know how to do so would you like us to make a motion or do you feel you can ad right now the motion is just to amend the bylaws to be as needed corre but it's still going to be every time it's an East St project so I'm just making sure that's it's on the record that everybody knows that making East Stewart projects more expensive because they're the only projects that require this thing so then what would be the alternative not having this not having it but know that's not going to go over well went down that road no Mr Mortel can I Mr Mr Mayor hold on I'm sorry one of your concerns you stated Mr mortell was that they tried to expand the scope of their responsibilities isn't 2121b they didn't they didn't exp doesn't that to me that means it special meetings may be held at the their discretion isn't that going to put the staff in the same diff we're going to amend it though now that it's just as need that's coming out they're not going to have yeah that's going to come out yeah good that was the Trap because then it didn't matter what they even though they they could discuss anything anything okay good yeah thank you for pointing that out because I would need that on the record no he's still talking um we have to bring it back so it's really D and D so we know what you could I was just looking for some consensus from you guys I I was just going to add in certain instances where it's something that's just involved with Martin arts and a project couldn't they just meet with Martin Arts rather than having a whole East Stewart committee and then going on to Martin NS they could yeah they could also as residents the crb board approves the art anyway as residents they could come to the meeting and tell the crb board that so we don't need the board right we don't need to have an extra meeting for that one particular if that was the only thing on their agenda purpose of their meeting are there decisions now you're getting back to what's the purpose of the board right they're not binding decisions anyway so they they were just collecting data for the website originally they were collecting data for guy Davis and they did it right and it was completed and then they came back and said will you make us a permanent board and the board kind of said okay no problem like there was no reason not to like everyone was happy or whatever and said okay great but then what happened was there there wasn't a regular pattern of needing for them to meet no and some of them were disappointed by that and were having higher expectations and others got disenfranchised and stopped coming so the question becomes do we Sunset it and move on like we did you know or do we we amend those by laws to we got some push back when that was mentioned so right keep it but limit the meetings certainly and you guys you know you're going to you reappointed members to the board um today anyway so we have members and we'll call them when we have something come up well in light of the changes we're suggesting for E Stewart I think they certainly have items to consider at this point so well no they they they only will address it if there's new project like if a new project comes in and like I said before the city paid for the notice and The Mailing and all the stuff to have those meetings because the new project was Guy Davis Park and the other new project was the project left but moving forward if it's somebody's business on East Street they're going to be goinging paying for the notice and paying for the advertising and whatever it is and so I just mention that because it mattered but that's it okay um um see no other items for our consideration I congratulate you vice mayor Collins on your new position congratulation mayor your first I thank the board for giving me one full year to figure this out and this meeting is adjourned thank you there's a test at the end