##VIDEO ID:SQNaQDAA7Xs## board member Reed here board member Camp peny here board member bville here community redevelopment board chair Camp Penney here Vice chair breckbill here board member Hawkins board member mccristal here board member Moser here board member Noble here thank you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance IED Al to the United States of America and to the rep for it stands Nation indivisible liy jusice more that's because presentation is that you or what is what is this Mary under President okay the first presentation um Mr Mortel did you want me to go over this oh I'm sorry I oh actually the first one I'm sorry approval of minutes if we could do that first we have approval by the 722 by board member Camp Penny second by board member reille all in favor oos hearing none um you want to do the agenda or you need one more for oh I'm sorry you're right so do we have a motion for the approval of the 23 September minutes motion by board member Henny second by board member bville all in favor and may I get an approval of the agenda please okay we have a motion for the approval of the agenda second well the daring Duo over there again H Penny and Bre bille motion we don't even like that's true um all in favor I okay presentation well why don't we take comments from the public I have no General comments from the public you have none on I have some on a particular item but not General cross we have no comments from the public we have any comments from by board members yes sir it is Mr mistal board member m just a couple things uh looking behind us I there are a couple things that I think we didn't quite get right over the past six months or so one being uh the idea of using pavers on A1A a highly traveled Road for everybody in the county if we are stuck into that mode then I'm hoping we can at least get some sort of warranty from the contractor who puts those papers in as far as having maybe 10 years of durability without us paying more money to keep it up so I think we really dropped the ball on that one another and U I'm guessing it can re be Revisited after the election because I guess we don't really know how it's going to go but uh on the topic of weed uh the crb had a pretty good discussion about it but somehow that got lost in translation before it got to the uh commission and U my thoughts are there's if you view legalized weed as a blessing or a burden then those blessings and or burdens should be shared equally by the entire city I don't like the idea of segregating one section of the city that's going to be weed free at least the sales of it be free from sales in one section of the city because that increases the likelihood of these establishments being in the other parts of the city and it was my understanding that the whole reason this topic was started was to avoid the Denver type scenario that happened when all for some reason all the uh weed selling establishments ended up being in one particular section of town well if you reverse engineer it if you're taking a third of our city out of this conundrum then you're actually doing the opposite of what you thought you were going to try to do because you now you've condensed all of these dispensaries into a tighter space and I just don't understand the randomness of coming down East Ocean Boulevard and stopping at U Palm Beach Road and then everything east of there you know it's going to be a open to uh open to the weed anyways I would hope we could revisit those two things again maybe nothing happens in November but uh this idea of us being separate cities on every topic that's brought up I will I'll be railing against two separate parts of town all right thank you we really have to get very particular you really have to wait till the legis if it passes well I can comment on it one way or the other I mean the state if it passes which probably will the state will the the referendum is to have the legislature right statutes related to it so there will be State regulation that preempts a lot of it however the city already passed second reading so the ordinance is not coming back it's over it's it was adopted and it's unless I get direction to bring it back it's not coming back but more importantly all zoning is a separation of one part of the community from another part of the community downtown is parking exempt but Walmart has to have a giant parking lot because the zoning where Walmart is is not parking exempt we had when the medical marijuana came into Play We defined it as similar to a pharmacy so in the zoning map it can be anywhere that a pharmacy could be but a pharmacy can't be next door to your house because zoning has already been depicted as separating us into different chunks and spaces don't allow it I honestly think even if it does pass that we're likely not going to see or notice anything it's going to be much to do about nothing our population doesn't make us interesting enough for any giant person to think they're going to come make their Millions on the on the Gold Rush here Orlando would probably be the better location if you're going to open up one of these stores and you're going to try and get Ridge off of it more likely that the five big guys that are already involved with the state that already have 100% of the distribution rights and already have dispensaries in Stewart will continue maintaining those dispensaries at a retail level which is allowed under the ordinance that was adopted and it's really going to go by the wayside but as Mr misto points out if it turns out that it becomes something that is problematic the good news is that the city being the size that it is we are very Nimble and we could move on that and react to it very quickly are there comments by any other board members see none so I'll handle the first action item which is a joint CRA crb City Commission meeting and it's ironic but we have a very good turn out tonight um the reason this issue came up in the past was because originally we had the CRA and the crb was a seven member board that appointed two members of that board to sit on the CRA and the intention was for those two members to bring information to the CRA the state adopted this program related to concurrency that required the city the county and the school board to hold these joint meetings to share information and the city commission decided to have joint meetings with the CRA and the crb and the city commission which is like the one we're at and they started getting scheduled quarterly historically the crb even tonight you'll see didn't really have anything to vote on so you had volunteers that were having to leave work or do whatever it was to come to these meetings that they didn't actually participate in and then the meetings were being P counted against them toward their attendance and other things and so what we brought up the issue was does the board want us to continue doing the joint meetings or does the board want it to be just a crb meeting and a c meeting and the crb members come and tell the CRA the reason that we were asking is because we weren't really getting any crb members that were coming to the meeting and then of course tonight when we have the discussion they're here um it's no issue to the city one way or the other it was more of just a you know fundamentally or pragmatically is do the board members feel like it's effective do you feel like it has meaning to you and you get something out of it we should continue doing it or do you feel like it's just another meeting being added on on that you don't really get to say much it's just for the sake of checking a box and it's it's your discussion to have we just wanted to bring it to your attention and get feedback from from the boards to see how you felt I if if I can I have a comment on that um I think it's great that we have these but but the flip side of it is as soon as we sit on these boards we can't talk to anybody else about any of this stuff because of sunshine so it really makes us less effective as vol unteers because now all of a sudden we're on this board with maybe another volunteer or even at this level in particular where we're on the boards with Commissioners you know we're now in a situation where from a sunshine standpoint we can't even have a com a conversation about something to relay a message back or to to talk about things so I from my standpoint that's the one disadvantage I see of these uh of of these joint meetings or these joint committees as well is that um you know you put yourself in a position that you you know kind of have you kind of defeat the communication and the real issue for tonight is does the crb and the CRA and the city commission want the city staff to cons continue to schedule four quarterly joint C crb City commission meeting because you're already on the board I'm I'm going to say I try to tell the commission members what the board has however I think it's very important that commission hear from other CRA members crb members that they wouldn't be normal by them being here and again I think you've instituted a good policy about not holding they can't but if they're here I think it's you could hear from them and hear their opinions because other that's the whole point many opinions so I I I would say they keep it because it's no sweat off anyone's back they show up great they don't great but they do then have that opportunity before you decide we've already heard pretty good and and and with that being said would we be better to not have the two crb members elevated to the CRA and just have more joint meetings and have the entire board present rather than representative board and I'm going to say You by having two volunteer members elected by the crb four meetings with the crb then does bring if I agree with that we're completely apolitical that's true in principle and I think we all are me too I think Mark and I are a political this meeting very political uh but um so again I think it's a great thing to hear from every Mr mertel will you so will you clarify I'm the crb board rookie never been on a board before so this clarify the Sunshine Law for me on this board does this mean I cannot outside this meeting talk to other crb members Andor other CRA members Andor the commission members am I in this am I as a citizen now in dead silence as it as it comes to all the people in this at this table from the day that you get the agenda for this joint meeting to share a common agenda for this meeting and you can't discuss any of those things with anybody else that's going to be a voting member of this meeting so you shouldn't be discussing it with any crb members any CRA members or any City commission me however the minute this meeting is over with and this agenda goes away as a crb member you're only prohibited from speaking to the other crb members about board items and you're encouraged to speak to the CRA members other than the two that are crb members to discuss whatever your issues are you know just like the LPA members are appointed by individual Commissioners they should be speaking and communicating with the commissioner that appointed them to make sure that they're following the same mindsets or that you know they're both on the same pace and understand where they're coming and going together but yeah you're right when you get assigned to the Joint meeting it does have a triggering effect that the agenda items on this board that you would be voting on become subject to Sunshine but I also don't know that I ever recall the crb voting on an agenda item at one of the joint meetings I mean remind me if I'm wrong but I don't very rare very I don't remember remember it I mean I think twice so I'm not sure exactly how technical it would be probably ask the City attorney on opinion when he getting down into the weed I think the only thing has the authority to vote on is has to do with art doesn't it isn't it the arc the community well they vote on every project no but I mean that that actually their authority to make the decision right yeah but they but the it's not whether it's an action or authority advisory boards are subject to Sun so even though it's advisory in nature still my comment on was it on as you know a commissioner who actually tends quite a few of meeting should the burden be placed upon our volunteers or should it be to maybe take a more active role in hearing those you know different voices board um I think you know the goal is fine uh but the reality is we never see this so the irony of this discussion is that we actually have a full the vain the vain effort to accomplish this I don't I don't know what it's doing but posing guilt upon those who do not well but since it doesn't it it doesn't affect them per se in their they're here not only as volunteers but they're here because they really want to participate maybe they want to participate in the undergrounding maybe they want they want they want to they want this it I don't know they're so does it hurt to hear their opinion value is providing them the opportunity to have their voices here on issues that are important to them and an absent action otherwise will obviously continue doing I just want to bring it to the attention of GS because I know historically the crb hasn't really felt like it's a primary issue or necessary for them to attend because they don't and and obviously From staff's perspective we actually kind of feel bad like putting the agenda together and saying okay we're making these five people leave work and for seven people leave work and come here and we're telling them that they're on the agenda and there's really nothing on it for them to vote on give them a cookie and apparently you feel that you two elected by this not effective I didn't say that no what I said was what's the point they may have other points of view and they and they may not be in they may not have been in the majority when we take a vote and Mr mistal is often not non major and so Mr mccristal would only speak to his point has a point ter none of you would you ever understand whatst has I think by him coming here when he wants to and speaking to you gives you a whole different perspective I just think it's a good idea I don't think it's a bad idea I agree with Tom I I do okay I I have a question do we need a c board yes wait but but what wait let me finish let me finish but can instead the city commission function in that role as long as it's in a separate meeting well in other words could the they could make it five members and not have the 2 crb right that's what I'm getting at or or could call a separate meeting adjacent to one of their board meetings declare themselves as the CRA and then the then the crb would be all volunteer it would be all volunteer at that if we did it that the crb is all volunteer now well but I mean it would be there would be no actions at the CR the crb could you know could give opinions on a lot of things and and participate but it it would I think it would eliminate the dis is that the CRA is made up of seven people the crb was made up of seven people and the LPA was made up of seven people in 2007 I believe it was and by the way these all existed in the 90s um the the City commissioners felt like the process the city had been following which was prior to that the city commission selected generally all members so if you were going to be on the L PA everybody was treated as an atlarge member people would come to a meeting they'd go through applications and the commission would vote as a whole on the whole board in 2007 or whenever uh Mary Hutchinson was on the commission I forget the exact year but um the discussion was that the City commissioners should appoint their own Representatives the way the county does so that the volunteer board had the same perspective or or as the elected official rather than having boards that you know you have a new commissioner that comes on and the board members don't see it the same way they do so their idea was we should do it so that the elected official gets to appoint their representation on these volunteer boards so that they can represent what the elected official knocked on everybody's door about whatever that might be so in that year all of the board members became appointees so moving forward the City commissioners each got an in one appointee to the CRA or to the crb one appointment to the LPA one appointment to the board of adjustment and so on but there were seven board members so the LPA and the crb had two at large position believe it or not until just a couple of years ago those positions didn't change it was Frank Waka Larry massing and a couple other but it never changed I mean for literally 15 years or whatever it was and so now as we move forward the City commissioners each appoint their representatives and then the at large positions and in the crb the two at large positions ironically are the ones that have been directed by the board to represent the CRA but that's not has no relationship to why the but the crb technically could be five people that's appointed by the city commission and no at llarge positions and the crb could still out of those five still appoint two to come up and serve on the CRA and then the CRA would be the city commission plus the two appointed from the crb to come up and serve the LPA is the same thing it has seven members but it really was just more of a backing it into the box like okay we've got five Commissioners here you get an appoint by point two extra they're going to be alarmed and so they just kind of happened by default it wasn't U it was more arbitrary and so the meeting for this purpose like back then the crb would meet and the theory was that it had a meeting and it appointed two of its Representatives that would serve on the CRA and it would bring the philosophy of the crb to the CRA meetings by serving as the representative well if that's the case then the joint meeting is redundant but as Tom pointed out I mean it is good to share the thoughts and have the conversations anyway and it's not necessarily redone it's more like a workshop or it's more of discussion anyway because the crb is not really voting on anything at the meetings anyway but honestly it's all it's it's currently in the charter so the seven members and all that stuff's in the charter but there isn't a peep anywhere written as to this joint meeting there is no requirement to have it and there's no ban from having it either so it's really the policy and the will of the guys attending it Mike is this whole thing work why screw around it works have committed people sometimes they don't want to come to this meeting and I don't blame them sometimes it's boring as hell but I think tonight is a pretty important meeting that's what but I bre something doesn't any other comments and just Clarity if without any action it'll remain the same like if you don't so we don't need a motion if you want to keep it so Mr bagot can you read item number four for our consideration please resolution number 03-242 the fiscal year 2025 CRA budget appropriating and authorizing the expenditure of funds for additional appropriation providing for conflicts providing for severability providing for an effective date and for other purposes thank you I'll be giving the presentation yes the presentation correct um panal G.C director for the record so there are two agenda items in the package and they are related so I just have one presentation but at the end of the presentation um the board will have to take uh two separate motion one by the CRA board and one by the city commission um I also wanted to introduce my uh design team the entire design team is here that I've been working with with them for over the last five six years Brian good from kimley horn um he worked on the streetscape design Kevin Shannon and Caitlyn townend from kimley horn they worked on the undergrounding design for phase two of the project which is Oola Street and St Lucy and Colorado and they also coordinated with our other consultant who worked on The Phase One Design who's retired um so he did not take on the phase two so we contracted with kimley horn to do phase two and then we have CJ R and Mark uh kley from burkard um they are they were awarded the semar construction management risk preconstruction Services contract a few months ago and they are the one who provided the guaranteed maximum maximum price proposal for the discussion today um just to give an overview of the project boundary uh this is for the downtown undergrounding and seminal streetcape project uh the undergrounding project includes seminal Street Oola Street St Lucy Avenue from Flagler to seminal and South Colorado Avenue from Flagler to seal the streetscape improvements is from uh is along seminal street from St Lucy to South K Colorado Avenue uh we'll also be milling and resurfacing all the streets including the Flagler Avenue um so just within this small area we have about 90 businesses including retail restaurants and offices we have 35 residential units and 15 room Boutique Hotel that will directly benefit from this project uh the project was initiated back in 2019 uh where we did the feasibility study to determine uh estimate cost for this type of project well we had no idea how much something like this even cost because City's never uh taken on an undergrounding project so we did that back in January 2019 and then in May 2019 fpnl submitted a building permit uh to replace the polls in downtown and transfer all the utility lines to a to a new poll um to meet their new standards for storm events um so at that time we advised them that we're planning to underground the utilities in downtown so they withdrew their application um for building permit uh so we started working on amending the CRA plan uh to include the downtown undergrounding project and streetscape project into the C plan uh because we're not supposed to spend money on on any projects um that are not IDE identified in the C plan so it's important to get the projects um incorporated into the plan before we initiate it uh So the plan was approved and adopted by the crb board and CRA board in August 2019 uh because of the limited funding at that time we did decide to do this project in phases so that's why you'll hear me refer it to it as phase one phase two and seminal streetscape phase one was um seminal Street U seminal Street undergrounding and then phase two is Oola Street and St Lucy in Colorado Avenue so initially we just started working on the phase one design um we uh we we contracted um with Danny Brandon to do the design for phase one and uh kimly horn to do the streetscape design in late 2019 uh we presented the conceptual plan to the public Main Street DBA for all their feedback at an openhouse meeting back in September 2020 uh we also applied for the FD water quality grant for the streetscape Improvement project in November 2020 and we were awarded $274,000 for the project um we were pretty far along with the project with the design of the streetcape and we had a new development coming on on seminal street called sailfish Cove so we worked with them um to have them dedicate right of way for the improvements they dedicated about 10 ft of private property for the RightWay improvements and they also contributed $80,000 for the improvements um that would be adj adjacent to their property uh we had another openhouse meetings to get feedback from the public back in January 2021 uh the Pres the the design was presented to the Joint board meeting in April 2021 to get their feedback and approval to move forward and by by September 2021 we were successful at obtaining an easement from a private property owner for installation of Transformer box for the project and then in October 2021 fpnl came back and they submitted another building permit to uh close the road to replace the poles uh we reminded them again that we're working on the design um but we at this time we had to expedite the design for phase two because they couldn't hold off in any longer um the current polls does not meet their um their standards so we had to expedite the project we contracted with kimley horn um to do the phase 2 undergrounding design in November 2021 uh we provided an update on phase two to the city Commission in September 2022 um it was determined that it would be more cost and time uh cost efficient and and uh time efficient to do the improvements together versus in phases phases and then in April 2023 the commission approved to execute an easement agreement with fpnl for placement of conduits and Make Ready polls on City owned parcel um in June 2023 the city commission approved to execute fpn agreements to for binding cost estimate for material for the conversion and then uh we adverti our first RFP in June 2023 uh we received one proposal but uh they didn't submit a price Proposal with their package so we went back to them and asked for a price price proposal and they failed to respond so we rejected that proposal and then we went out for second RFP in August 2023 uh we received one proposal for 7.3 million uh but when we revie reviewed the uh the proposal there were a lot of um errors in that proposal there were computation errors um discre discrepancies in pricing and quantities and there were overlap of items so um the city commission did authorize staff to negotiate with the contractor We R red The Proposal with the contractor and they resubmitted the The Proposal in December 2023 and it was almost a double the cost of of their initial proposal so almost $13 million so at that point staff just didn't feel comfortable accepting that proposal so we rejected that proposal also and then at this point we had to either choose to either go out for another RFP which would could result in the same same thing um where we wouldn't have enough propos to compare and select um or we could cancel the project or use alternate um procurement method which is the construction management at risk process uh which is typically used for complex uh projects such as this and this was the first time that the city was going to initiate this this process so then we went out for third RFP for semar and advertised in January 2024 we received one proposal and and then in June 2024 the commission approved to award the semar contract to barart construction uh to provide the pre-construction services and go offer bid and establish a guaranteed maximum price which is referred to as GMP and they are here today they are going to uh present the The Proposal uh more in detail in the process that they use to to um to determine that GMP um the proposals were uh the GMP proposals were included in your package uh so for the entire project which includes undergrounding on seminal Street uh Oola St lcy Avenue and Colorado Avenue and Street skate project um uh the total cost would be 8.7 million if the resolution is approved today um barard would also act as a general contractor during the construction of the of the projects so that's why you see this proposal broken into four different comp components uh first is the direct construction cost which is the entire uh cost for the for the construction itself which is 6.4 million and then that also includes $700,000 in contingency and allowances for any un unexpected cost so if those funds are not used those would come back to the city U the $700,000 then the general conditions which are costs associated with managing the construction of the project project including insurance bonds field office is any other indirect cost um to complete the project this would be uh this is estimated to be $735,000 project management team fees to oversee the project uh until the completion that's estimated at s uh $970,000 and then the construction manager fee which is uh $610,000 this is their profit line item for bar card typically it's around 10% but in this case it's about 7% of the total GMP and 99.5% of the direct cost so it's still less than what you typically see for for uh for the construction manager fee so that's how we come up with a total of project at $8.7 million um the previous commission also requested to see uh GMP if we were to just do phase one undergrounding and seminal streetcape or if we were just to do semal streetscape projects so for the GMP for underr grounding seminal streetscape um and under I'm sorry undergrounding seminal and streetcape without Oola street undergrounding that would be around $5 million um but however this approach will require us to redesign seminal streetcape because originally we designed it with the assumption that we were going to underground that project and we would have to um there would be some redesign work and that would have Financial impact and some delay in time if we don't do this project together the GMP for just doing the seminal streetcape would be around $3 million but again this requires us to go back out and um redesign re-quantify the bid um so there would be additional cost for that um and again delay in project uh here's a a streetscape Improvement project um in case some of you haven't seen it it includes undergrounding of overhead utilities drainage improvements improved on street parking street lights benches and Landscaping uh the goal here is to uh make the street more attractive inviting to Residents and visitors um provide an area where they can walk shop and dine we really want to uh activate this area uh for storefront and outdoor dining experience along seol uh we're proposing to install permeable P block system for the street skate project these are not your typical traditional pavers these are designed to help reduce storm water runoff by infiltrating the rain water and reducing pollutants uh before discharging into the St Lucy River especially uh with the project being so close to the river um it will have direct environmental benefits including reducing Urban heat island effect compared to your traditional pavement uh especially in this urban area and as I mentioned before we did receive a grant for the P block system I've already reached out to them because the costs have gone up since I've applied for this for this grant um they've already told me I can provide a justification letter uh and the difference in cost and they'll consider um this project for additional funding and then in 20121 as an effort to improve seminal streetcape seminal Street uh for the future streetscape Improvement project we removed three dumpster enclosures to start cleaning up the street and activating the space so what are the advantages of undergrounding overhead utilities um it increases reliability and prevents power outage uh this photo here shows down wire at confusion Corner during Hurricane Milton uh which might have been the cause for power outage in downtown for two to three days uh what else will it do it will uh reduce out outage downtime for for local businesses um here you see that businesses were closed for 3 days due to the outage while all the suround areas were open for businesses um so this had uh a direct Financial impact to our businesses in downtown they also provide Public Safety benefits undergrounding power lines are less likely to cause fire uh from down wires and it'll help to protect our historic buildings in our downtown and protect the potential National register of historic district designation that we're pursuing for this area undergrounding will obviously improves the Aesthetics the visual appeal of the streets uh which can lead to higher property values um with all the poles removed it also provides a more walkable space and options to redesign for wider sidewalk and shade trees in the future there also cost savings for undergrounding when it's combined with streetscape project and that's the vision that we have for seminal Street here are some before and after photos with poles removed on Oola Street here's another before and after for Colorado Avenue and before and after for St Lucy Avenue um our vision is that that the undergrounding will continue west of St Lucy Avenue when the city hall is redeveloped in the future um the private developer at that time would be responsible and paying for the undergrounding along fla Flagler Avenue as part of their Redevelopment project so if the if the board decides not to move forward today um the city will have to notify fpnl and um that we're not moving forward so that that they can put this back on their work plan to harden the downtown because remember I had mentioned that had already submitted permit building permit twice to harden and they postponed it um you know knowing that we were working on the undergrounding so um if they are to if they are to um replace it with another poll they will be larger concrete poles to meet their current standards so I have some before and after after images of what that could look like um the existing poll will remain until all the utility utility lines are transferred to the new pole and as we've seen in other areas that can take up to you know that can take few years for the all the utility lines to be to be transferred um transferred and um there's a potential of losing parking spaces also because of the bulb outs uh for the second poll in the because we just don't have enough RightWay uh to put it on the sidewalk so we would have to do some bulb outs for the second pole uh so in Oola there's a potential of losing three parking spaces if they Harden the poles here's before and after for along Colorado we could lose up to three parking spaces Al along Colorado also and before and after for seminal Street uh the new streetcape project shows um that we're going to have 16 parking spaces so we could lose up to four parking spaces on seminal because of the bulbous as you can see we just don't have enough uh sidewalk withd to put the second poll and here is before after on St Lucy Avenue again we wouldn't lose any parking spaces but the sidewalk width will be constrained so why do we want to invest in downtown um the downtown is a driver of economic activities and attracting visitors I was able to get this da data from Martin County tourism office uh on average we have about 10,000 V visitors per month during peak season and about 3,000 to 5,000 visitors per month during off seon um so our Historic downtown is a destination for many visitors and this project will support and encourage tourism and continue to um support our small businesses in downtown um it's not just a destination for visitors it's also a place where residents get to come and enjoy we hold various events in downtown throughout the year that draws thousands of residents to downtown town for various events um it creates a lot of foot traffic in downtown so by undergrounding uh the utilities will remove all the PO poles and clutter from the sidewalk and provide a better pedestrian experience and safer walking environment so I also prepare rate of return on our investment for this project I looked at the assessed value of properties uh within the project boundary for the base year when the CRA was reestablished and the trust fund was created which was in 1998 um I provided the the Excel sheet um you have a hard copy in front of you if you want to follow along because I know this is pretty small to read um the assessed value for the properties in downtown in the base year uh which is the year that we freeze the the values um it was 5.7 million the assess value for properties in 2024 within the project boundary is 59.8 million this gives us an increment of $ 54.1 million um in just downtown and we apply the city millage rate County millage rate to determine what that Tiff Revenue looks like for just the downtown area for 2024 it was $65,000 of Tiff Revenue just within that project boundary area and based on the historic values I estimated about 10% increase uh in assessed value every year for the next 5 to six years to determine how much Tiff Revenue will generate R in downtown every year um we can estimate to generate approximately 5.7 million Tiff Revenue over the 6-year period uh so if we're investing $9.3 million in this project we can expect to have 62% return in our investment in six years um obviously this number could have fluctuate um millage rate could fluctuate but I feel pretty confident based on the history um of the historic values that we would have our investment a return on on our investment in less than 10 years and typically downtown generates higher level of return per dollar invested than any other areas in of our city here's a five-year Capital Improvement plan plan that you saw last month with the CRA budget uh the board did review this and approved the CIP last month uh for this fiscal year we budgeted $6 million for the undergrounding and streetscape project um there are other um large project that the CR is also working on um $7 million for the guide Davis Park improvements uh 4.3 million for project lift uh which is a cdbg CO Grant so that'll be a reimbursement and then the $800,000 for the design of bright Line Station whichever direction we move forward with that um we have about four to five uh we have about $ four to five million doll in fund balance right now um and we expect to get additional Tiff Revenue in future years to do other projects that are listed in the CIP including you know bright Line Station Parking Garage Dixie Highway improvements uh MLK streetcape project um which I will be seeking grants for and the Dixie Highway we've already received partial grants for that uh so this is our largest project that that is shovel ready at this time and we have funding available to do this project this fiscal year and all the projects that are identified in the CIP in the future uh we'll have the the Tiff Revenue in the future to do those projects also as for expenses um the guaranteed maximum price uh as I mentioned to do the entire project is 8.7 million and then I had to also include the CI services to manage the the construction of the project building permits and utilities fees uh for a total cost of $9.7 million um as I mentioned before we already have $6 million budgeted um in this fiscal year 2025 CRA budget for the project so staff is requesting a budget amendment for additional appropriation of $3.7 million for the project um other Revenue sources include the the fdp water quality Grant of $274,000 and contribution of about $80,000 from salefish code development so here we are at the action items um I'll be looking for a motion to approve uh resolution number 03224 uh which is a budget amendment number 01 to the fiscal year 2025 CRA budget for additional appropriation of 3.7 million for downtown undergrounding and seminal streetcape project that's a CRA action item so the CRA board will need to uh vote on that and then after that the city commission action item is to motion to approve resolution number 114 d224 Amendment to the C contract to award construction service phase to barart construction for the price not to exceed $8.7 million I do have barart here they do have a small presentation um if you'd like to hear their presentation before the board decides to discuss I'm sure we would G oh this is the one right here sorry this is the one right okay sorry the other I'm CJ RO with burkart construction I'd be the project manager or I have been the project manager through the preconstruction side so far and would be during the construction um so the agenda today is uh talking about two phases of of work here so first is the preg GMP approval so everything is gone on before you would approve the GMP and the preconstruction services so this is going over what we've already done um so we'd have preconstruction progress meetings constructibility review and value engineering guaranteed maximum price development and then the post GMP approval so assuming the project gets approved um and the construction of it is going over a few items public Outreach and resident and business coordination scheduling and phasing uh resident business and customer access during construction so uh since you guys approved the preconstruction we've had different progress meetings multiple meetings so we've had a kickoff meeting with penal and kimley Horn another meeting with penal and other City staff meeting with the building official and kimley Horn pre-bid meeting with underground subcontractors and kimley Horn bidding RFI review meetings with kimley horn and tal multiple coordination and bid meetings with bidding subcontractors and the post GMP submission meeting with penal and kimley Horn to review the GM so during the constructive build review value engineering uh we did a thorough review of the plans for constructibility and value engineering we worked with subcontractors to clarify questions within the plans worked with subcontractors on constructibility to reduce costs um with the undergrounding projects there's very few opportunities to Value engineer the materials themselves uh there was a in our GMP you'll see um we have additional scope of work and value added services in the GMP that would be omitted during a lower bid uh proposal um we have some uh disconnect switches in phase one that weren't shown on the plans but with the meetings with the building official know that he's going to be requiring those so we've gone ahead and included those so your original bid proposal from another contractor wouldn't have had that in there originally among some some other items that we know that need to occur during the construction process overall there was a sign significant reduction of costs compared to the previous proposal for the project provided by another contract so during the GMP development we first public advertisement and subcontractor pre-qualification uh we did the bid package preparation which included quantifying all the uh items and then we prepared the bid forms we issued the bid packages to the subcontractors uh we held a pre-bid site meeting for the undergrounding subcontractors then we did RFI coordination responses uh issued with re adenda we analyzed the subcontractor bids prepared the GMP and then we had the post GMP submission review with Stuart and kimley Horn um and then finally we did revisions and final GMP submission to Stuart so the bid packages and subcontractor bidding bid bid packages were separated into eight bid packages with different scopes of work bid packages were sent to 54 different companies subcontractor bids were analyzed and enter to entered into the bid comparison spreadsheet so these next ones I don't they probably be difficult to see but I'll just go through them real quick so um these are the different contractors that were sent to for each fit package so you'll see there's going to be eight of these as we go along so the first one there is uh the phase one undergrounding phase two undergrounding and on the right I have Sor on the right side is really kind of the the red there is the the general summary of it so uh bid packages were sent to 11 contractors for that scope of work we received uh bids from two contractors and then INF was the low bidder for phase one and phase two undergrounding and I know you guys won't be able to see this but basically for every one of these bid packages you're going to see is we go ahead and we put it into a spreadsheet and we show every line item side by side um and I believe that all either has this send your package or sent it to you but each one every line item that we have in the bid there is is shown with every bidder uh what theyve bid on it and then you'll see the ones that have the on the right side are no bid re phase one and phase two low bidder was both in for and then phase two site work which is um some of the sidewalk a little bit of work in Oola uh the milling and resurfacing striping some of that work uh bid packages sent to 14 contractors received bids from five different contractors Big D Paving was the low bidder for site work fin line striping was low bitter for the striping his time and then once again it's showing the sheet of of all the different biders and what they did and then the next one we had was the seminol streetcape street lighting uh sent to 16 contractors three bid and infr was once again the low bidder for the electric on S so then we had the semal streetscape water sewer and storm which we sent out to 10 contractors got two bids on that one and Johnson Davis was a low bit for that and once again the B comparison um semal streetscape site work bid packages were sent to 11 contractors uh bids received from two contractors in burkart construction we have the ability to self-perform site work so our self-performance bid on that was lower um so we were the low bidder for self-performing site work for someone else reason uh seminal streetcape concrete bid packages to 10 contractors bid received from three contractors and ADI was the low bidder for concrete and then pvers sent to nine contractors two bids received and David Wayne hardscapes was a little bitter for that uh then landscape and irrigation for seminol streetcap bid package is sent to contractors we receive bids from free contractors and green effect was the low bidder for landscaping irrigation so then that brings you to the full GMP which P all already uh brushed on there so um 8.7 million in change so assuming that the project gets approved tonight uh moving forward these are the next kind of steps and some of the items that wanted me to reach on or talk on so public Outreach and resident and business coordination obviously is going to be very important with this project that once the GMP is approved worker construction will begin coordination meetings with local businesses and residents including the steart downtown Business Association per construction will provide a merchant liaison to assist with residents and businesses coordination and we will have coffee with the crew meetings monthly throughout construction so during construction uh monthly we'll have a a pi a local coffee shop or somewhere that we can have it we'll have meetings will'll invite all the local businesses and and residents to attend or if they want to send a representative and it's just kind of a nice way to go through what's going on to give them some information um as well as the lison will help through that through the whole process so just real brief on the scheduling and phasing I I just want to what we're talking about this year is we don't have a full schedule down to the day of everything that's going to go on and how 100% on how it's going to be phased we want to have that input from talking to the businesses um we have a we have an idea on what we're going to do we have a um a good framework of it but we want to have some of that input on on a few items with them rather than telling them this is exactly how it's going to go so the overall project duration is 21 months uh projected start date in March of 2025 projected substantial completion in November of 2026 um and then with there being multiple projects there'll be a little bit of a phase approach uh phase one undergrounding which is most mostly on simol with fil on St Lucy will begin first then the undergrounding company infratech will transition into phase two immediately thereafter with some overlap between phase one and two so phase two is the Oola Flagler St Lucy and col Colorado corridors um and then the seminol streetcape is proposed to be during the summer of 2025 and then asalt Mill and resurface of the entire project which is really more of the phase two limits uh will be near the completion of the project which will be simol Flagler St Lucy and Colorado so a majority of the underground conduits to be installed with directional drilling to limit the impacts to roadways and sidewalk the undergrounding work is mobile and will not affect any one location for extended period of time so we're not going to be on a specific area for months on in we're going to put in the conduits then you'll go onto another section for conduits and you'll have to drop back to do some uh infrastructure as far as putting in uh Transformers switches and then pulling wire and then making connection so it's it's going to be mobile through the through the process um and then the the major conduit installation expected to occur in the first six to eight months of the project after the conduit installation is completed uh impacts the sidewalks roadways parking areas Etc will be very minor until the milling and resurfacing at the completion of the project I own here I can not see that good enough um so in general which we talked about we're going to start in March of 2025 uh phase one undergrounding is is basically march to November um November of 2025 and then phase two starts almost immediately thereafter in May of 20125 and that runs all the way through um September of 2026 with the milling and resurfacing then and restoration then occurring on the back side of that with all of the work uh concluding by November in November of 2026 and just in general we're trying to phase things where we do the the largest items um during offseason summertime to stay out of season obviously the project goes through the season but we're going to try to phase things where the the largest items happen outside of SE let just uh so it's just a visual of in red is the phase one undergrounding and the simal streetscape kind of limits there and like I said phase one starts in March 2025 uh simal Street safe construction is during the summer of 2 and then phase two which is in blue will overlap with phase one and start May of 2025 so this is uh something we we had put together for the bidding purposes for some of the subcontractors that were curious on how it was going to have to be approach for for pricing for asphalt and like I said I don't want you guys to look at this and say that this is ex how it's going to happen when we do it we just want to give you an idea of this is this is the type of things we're looking at and as we discuss with the downtown merchants and businesses and and residents we may change this phasing to better suit that so um this is this is what we're doing for milling and resurfacing um each color would represent a different phase of the asphalt Milling resurfacing to maintain traffic and uh we're also proposing that depending on the the meetings that we have that some of this work would be done at night um possibly the majority of it or at a minimum probably the Flagler in Colorado uh four doors to try to do it after businesses uh close in the evening after restaurants would be closed and try to get it open or get it back open before businesses open and the next morning to uh eliminate or or reduce the amount of impacts that downtown we we obviously understand the confusion Corner intersection there is uh a very difficult intersection to be able to be close and in the impact that it would have on downtown business so we're going to minimize that and and try to do that uh section of it at night so we don't impact any of the businesses so a few of the things that uh for the residences and businesses and customer access during construction uh the access to resident driveways will be maintained throughout construction except in special circumstances such as like pouring back a a driveway entance obviously when we P back residents's driveway insurance for that particular four um there'll be some impact but as far as this is mostly probably more directed to the simol streetscape but the people that are living on simol if there any of them are here uh we will maintain access to your residence you will be able to get through your residence during truck uh pedestrian access to businesses will be maintained throughout construction uh we'll utilize sidewalk detours pedestrian barriers and temporary boardwalks as necessary to maintain The Pedestrian access business work will be contained to parking areas when feasible to avoid road closures and traffic impact and by parking areas I'm not saying taking the entire parking areas either we'll like I said with a mobile operation we'll start in small sections of parking areas work through a lot of the conduit install gets through there move on to another section and try to minimize that that impact seol will be closed to through traffic during the simol streets skate portion of the project which could be up to to six months we're hoping that it goes quicker than that but um that would be the worst case scenario FPL power switching to businesses will be done at night or off hours to avoid interruptions Bart will work with the resident the businesses and residents to maintain trash and dumpster pickup Bart will work to provide alternate dumpster locations for simol during streetscape construction and then residents on simol will put their trash recycling cans at the street on normal days and burkart will move them to the street end or pick up and put them back after pick up bre so that's kind of a a general idea of what we're proposing to do during the construction to minimize any thank you are there any questions for either panal or the representative from burghard I have questions sitting down board member C penny okay soes who's going to do the you talking about from fpls yeah in other words right now they they're on the top of the building for the most part correct yes most of them go through a weather head who's who's who's going to take them down to the lower level that would be under our contract INF forch our subcontractor would install the conduit first there's a process to it everything has to be installed on the infrastructure side then once the infrastructure the underground infrastructure is hot Are Made hot then we can start transferring to to each one and that would be that would be under our contract and I guess pel can answer this who's it's going to be under their contract but are the individual buildings going to be buil build to that no no this is all under the budget that was always the discussion that the city that this the project would cover the cost for any uh connection and we're also going to underground the cable and the phone too whatever yes that's all going to go down at yes and who I know you're managing the project so this may be a question for either who's managing the on the whole I mean some I mean great guy knows what he's doing but who's making sure he knows what he's doing later in tomorrow Road whatever and we Department involv in those manage it by the mere fact that construction Tru have the building inspector there's going to be draws finan draw process will have meet codes will be involed it'll also be addressing you know whatever other utilities storm water are necessary so they'll be involved okay and it's a SE mod so biggest benefit that is that we get to if they go Ary they have up they have to conclude they're going to end up having you they have to buy the project that they want to make it25 million have at well two years from now right we'll see right I get it we're making claims on The Bu yeah kimley horn as the engineer of record will also be doing C and I on that so they'll be involved from the technical side I think as well on the pl side andal will probably more than likely be our contact on uh coordination and and businesses like said we'll be working with Public Works engineering department construction side I would imagineu we have Kevin Shannon from uh kimley horn he can answer that hi good evening Kevin Shannon kimley horn um yes every service that we've gone to we've we've been in all the buildings we've examined all the services what what we do in this instance and we've worked closely with the building department on this is we're going to be adding a service disconnect um at the at the meter location to connect our service to that disconnect and then connect it to the meter and that limits the responsibility of what the city then has to do um a lot of these buildings are old and you know the latest code is from 2023 so if it was built before 2023 it likely does not meet the code but that disconnect that we work through with the building department um connecting to the meter kind of limits your responsibility only to to that point so that's been handled and and coordinated fully do we have a price what that that no no no just on how much it's going to cost inside so so we're not actually that's why you saying we're not most buildings we actually not going to go in the inside we're going to put a a disconnect switch on the exterior of the building so we'll we'll only be working on the exterior at the disconnect and at the meter so we're not going into their private panels in most most sens so you'll be leav you you're going dead leaving what's up there second and third no so on that side of things all all the cables will come down um if it's something that's mounted on the side of the building and can be taken off um we'll we'll go and do that if it's a penetration weather head through a roof we will not take that out we usually what we'll do is cap that we're not going to mess with any roof penetrations and be blamed for any roof Le good idea but most of most of the infrastructure that's overhead that's feeding the the businesses that'll come out you won't see that I got just a couple things I wanted to yeah thank you um panol I want to thank you for giving me a return on investment I've been asking appreciate it um and I did want to point that out that U you know we're looking at an 89% increase in in property values within just that area that's not the whole city that's just that area which then means we get a proportionate increase in taxes that's going to come to us and you know I understand it's a lot of money but by spending it on things that produce this kind of return we're going to multiply those dollars and I think that's that's important to understand how the CRA Works um how we get that money and and what happens and it's interesting remember BR but before we have a discussion amongst ourselves I would just do you have any questions for either panal or the presenter then we'll have a motion second have public comment I the only question I I think I had for um P all was um on on this project um do we have I I wasn't sure and maybe this is for burkart how long will the core downtown uh be impacted just that you know I know we're doing this in phases but how much how long will will the businesses downtown be impacted as Clos you mean like closure of the roads and things like that yeah I know it's a 21mon project but specifically how long will you you said you're going to try to work with with the plan to keep to not impact the downtown during you know during the season and things and so I'm just kind of wondering what type of timetable do are we looking at for for what parts of downtown being out of service so to speak so I don't think downtown won't be I get what you're saying but out of out downtown won't be out of service at all at completely at any point um the first six to eight months of the project are pretty intensive as far as we're going to be doing the streetcape on seminal as well as doing most the conduit install and some of the heavy infrastructure work when a lot of the heavy infrastructure works for the undergrounding done there'll be a time where it's a lot less um intrusive in the downtown while we're doing conversions to each building on average I think they're probably doing what a conversion about a week maybe two a week they're going to be isolated to a couple buildings that work's going to be more on the building base and a lot less disruptive so the first six to eight months is probably the most work that's going to go on as far as um con what you normally consider construction work but directional drilling streetcape work and then at the very end of the project when we go to Mill and resurface will be the same thing there'll be a lot of a lot of work going on at that time but in the middle portion of that 21 months there'll be a period where there's a lot less impact to the down you know I just want to make that point that you know most of us remember when we you know repaved the street out there and we repaved Oola and um you know there were there were businesses that didn't make it as a result of that and uh lease prices on the street have gone up pretty considerably and uh I'm just concerned that if business is out for any length of time depending upon when it is particularly if it's during season um you know it could result in a significant amount of uh lost business for steuart any other questions board member mistal uh yes for the presenter um I've been out of business a while but you you mentioned basically ballpark you would send uh a request for bids out to sub subcontractors nine or 10 of them you'd get an average of two or three responses and of the two or three responses did I hear you you said one was the lowest bid was that you always gave gave the lowest bid the contract yes on this in this scenario yes because we we pre-qualify all everybody that's bidding so right they're they're already pre-qualified so we know if they're submitting a bid that they are qualified to bid and the only reason usually we throw one out after that is it's incomplete so on the subject of quality do we really maybe I'm wrong even thinking about it because each of these subcontractors are going to be held to a certain standard certain specs that have to be performed before they get paid so it doesn't really matter if you like the the I'm I'm old school it's been a while but it used to be like you get three or four bids and you throw out the high you throw out the low and you go okay let's work from here but are you saying that because the specs are so precise that you're comfortable as as your company just always given these contracts to the lowest bidder in this scenario yes where I mean it's not it's not just that we when we get when they after they bid the low bidder we meet with each one of them and we go through all their scope to make sure they have everything included so we do feel comfortable with the low biders for this Pro okay thank you board member Reed yeah my question was for Transformer boxes are they underground or or are they at surface level cuz I didn't see them in the presentation surface level surface level so are these going to replace I guess where existing polls were it wasn't shown in the presentation where they're going to be located or no um I know there's some at Mid block of Oola you want toally found landscape areas to put them into hi this is KAIT Townson with kimley horn um we did plan out a number of Transformers typically there's three to four per resident for property ownership um we did plan for about couple on Southwest Oola Street in the landscape Island so they do not impact parking um there will be curb modifications but it again it will not impact parking there's one located near the city hall area at the end of seminal Street um there is a couple already planned out for phase one which is seminal Street as well about three to four and then a couple on Colorado Street as well okay so it won't impact any parking then and then um this one was for panol so the total was 9.7 million does it show that fpnl credits or the sailfish code both credits like as a line item in there or did I miss it um so we have a separate we already paid for The fpnl Binding cost estimate um and I have the breakdown here for the conversion of phase one and phase two so this shows um we're going to be getting uh about $500,000 in credit so that's already been accounted for so that cost includes the credit so the 9.7 already have okay yeah all right I think that was it any other questions um is the burkart representative could you get back to thank you so you're not going to be digging up the sidewalks this is all accomplished with directional drilling is that correct well I wouldn't say not digging up the sidewalks at all where you where you pop in and out you do have to have sidewalk mod or uh remove and replace them at those locations but we're not going to dig up the entire sidewalk as we're you know pring in a a conduit um have there been incidents around the state or around the country where undergrounding that utility has proved more difficult to repair after a natural disaster than overhead I'm not aware of that uh underground the portions that are underground wouldn't be affected by a windstorm event could it be more okay or a flood event blood I don't think transform I mean I had heard that there have been some difficulties on the west coast of Florida so FPL I mean was asked that specific question last year after the passage of hurricane Ian in idalia um the Public Service Commission asked them to provide specific information and so they they prepared a report and the the report essentially said that underground systems in Hurricane Ian perform six times better than their overhead systems and underground systems and hurricane idalia performed 12 times better on a day-to-day operational basis underground systems are 50% more reliable and and better and it's a you're you're you're correct that in the past it was it usually took a few minutes longer to resolve a problem completely um with an underground system but in the last couple years that's flip-flopped it's now less it takes less time to resolve a problem with the underground system than the overhead because they've recently come up with some Innovations on how they can find faults in the primary between Transformers that are that could you provide those reports to panal and then I could yeah it's it's it's on the Public Service Commission website thank you um I was at an event recently and I was at found myself at the Ferguson Booth you know Ferguson they do a lot of systems um you know the public utilities and they were showing they were showing the systems now they're using to install trees and sidewalks and it's it was big I mean it was as big as this table at least at it's you know so that the roots can grow out you know we had a horrible incident but we had event where we had to cut down beautiful oak trees in the city because of the problems they were creating with our sidewalks and Utilities in the systems and the stores and so if we know we want to put some terrific shading down seol do we need to figure that out now and that has we have to do accomplish that Al together we say we are we are familiar with those systems we've installed them in a lot of different locations we're currently installing there's a couple different brands that do it um think doesn't have larger right I know some of us like Oaks there really on simol there's no trees that would normally require one of those systems usually you see those with larger shade trees oak trees Etc and it's in your correct it's basically a a cell system yes correct trading of cells that go down in the ground and then you put the top soil in and allows the roots to go in there without pushing up side so if we had some hope to create put more shade trees on our streets and I'm looking at you misiz Moser we should figure that out right now and so that we can accommodate them to as great a degree as possible going forward sidewalk forgive me this is going under the sidewalk yes normally you see it underneath the the sidewalk so he's talking about the tree roots would not be able to um subvert the sidewalk with the way that that's set up so it shouldn't be well we also don't want it to impact there how big is the cable by the way that um I mean it's it's not just the size of each condo there's there's multiple condos what's the most I think there's seven seven condos together in runs plus some others so I mean you could have so these frames if we wanted to put them in place would' have to accommodate and that's something you're used to doing right okay yeah you would want to know that preferably beforehand if you are trying to add some if you're let just say on Oola you wanted to add some Street trees some oak trees for shade you would want to know that ahead of time so it could be planned that was the exact point of my question they are designed they are designed the the stratal or silver cells through the main Brands they are designed where conduit what can go through those good good or or the other alternative that is since we are directional drilling if we know the locations of them we can also just stay deep below that then if you do them in the future then they're not in the way but we would it would be best to know if that is a plan in the future to know potential soal that's something we should decide right try to coordinate with them yeah um see no additional questions I'm sorry yeah board member cins once once we do this are we assuming the liability for this infrastructure once this goes in can can you would you mind explaining that if it fails if you know it's all fpnl but he could explain it better that's that's correct so once the infrastructure is done it's turned on it's cut over it then transfers ownership over to fpl AT&T Comcast and then if anything ever goes wrong with it it's it's them they come out they replace they fix they repair it's not the city do we have a motion I'll make I'll make the motion discuss purposes approve a resolution 03224 thank you second so we have a motion by board member campenni and a mo a second by board member Clark is there any public comment Madam clerk on this issue I do I have Bill Moore where is will you come to the D please please state your name and address do there no no a long walk it is good evening board uh it's exciting to see this on the uh no good evening uh excited to see this up here in a finished product it looks very well detailed and uh and pretty well laid out it looks like you guys have done this a few times and answered a lot of questions without questions needed to be asked to in the presentation so Bill Moore uh small business owner downtown I own kwin I'm also the president of our DBA our downtown Business Association so this is something you know been in the work since 2019 I get people coming to the store on a regular basis asking uh is it ever going to happen is it ever going to happen and now we have new neighbors behind us on seminal and uh and they ask that quite often too so um we're very excited to get this point um I was here a few months ago and you know advocated for approving the uh the the CMR that that that was presented tonight and uh I'm advocating that we we vote in favor of this and move forward as I just mentioned a few months ago um this is like looking 50 years out it's not 5 years out it's not 10 years out it's 50 years out I'll be long and people will be enjoying this for many many years to come it's long overdue for the city um we have an older downtown older infrastructure A lot's been built around it um as I mentioned a few months ago Mobility is a huge issue I have my parents are in the mid 80s and it's very difficult for my mom to navigate downtown Stewart with her walker or in her um transport chair so and my dad's not too far behind her unfortunately so you know we would love to see the streets more um uh navigable for our older um uh folks and I'll be one soon and uh in AR younger folks the strollers um kids and dogs and people walking downtown um it's a very active environment with lots of foot traffic and uh we'd love to see this move forward and uh really make our downtown assessible into the next 50 years plus so we're excited for it so thanks for your time I have Nick shro good evening everybody uh Nick shro 623 northwest Palm Street um just wanted to say you know I appreciate seeing the CRA make investments in the city and make improvements to infrastructure um the CRA is doing a project where you know around my house where you know knowing about this project I decided to build a house because of the um projects the CRA had proposed and had in their Pipeline and you know projects like this are reasons why people investments in our community and they're important to see come to life and so um appreciate yall's consideration and and you know would would like to see yall vote in favor of this thank you I have Max duckham hi everyone my name is m my firm recently acquired uh 37 through 45 Southwest Oola street so our tenants include the Beloved kwin reading out bitters dirty hippie Gumbo Limbo and uh we arguably have the largest Frontage on Oola Street um rather on seminol Street second largest Frontage on Oola Street after the post office arcade um I simply wanted to address a point that I heard previously about return on investment which called a fantastic point of addressing was quick to observe the increases in property taxes i' also like to note the increases in sales taxes Our intention would be to match that return on investment and uh follow you guys in improving the facade of our building actually have a Improvement plan that we're we're going to be presenting your way to improve the facade of aola street so we intend to invest a lot of money into activating that building we want to basically be the driving force of turning seminal Street into really the Third you know Street of the downtown so Flagler Oola and then seol would really be the three big streets of of downtown um right now it just serves as an Alleyway and loading but as call it the largest uh building on that street I can tell you with confidence we would invest and Mak sure that uh your work doesn't go unnoticed and we would improve the retail and really uh beautiful property to be a part of um a couple other point that P all observed uh if this does not get done now it would be a shame to have FD come in and cement these polls um kind of emphasize that point once more if this doesn't happen now it can never happen and I appreciate that $8 million is a lot of money um but this downtown has been here for 100 years the building we acquired is 90 years old be real shame to have people in a 100 years time look back and say what are these polls doing here they they turn down this project for $8 million um and just another comment I actually was involved in a undergrounding project in my experience in downtown Miami uh the project was much bigger our undergrounding budget was over $100 million we worked with kimley horn had experience working with burkart they Best in Class and P has done a fantastic job working this budget down thank you Kon bli everyone good afternoon everyone Mr Mayor honorable Commissioners and dear board member my name is koni and I reside at 41 South sem saish Co I also serve as the board member for homeowners association at Stewart basically I am expressing the voice of 37 other unit owners that we reside there mostly around around the year I am here today to express our strong support for the downtown undergrounding and seven Street Improvement project this project is poised to breed new into our stre boost local businesses and establish Downtown St as a premier destination for both presidents in business as pel presented a great project and with with all the apprpriate folks that they have involved I think that they have put a well worth developed plan to move ahead utilities underground and Revitalize key streets in downtown I would like to emphasize our support as you know few fact items first of all from an accessibility perspective these improvements will bring Downtown St into compliance with Ada regulation I'm not only talking about it but also I am impacted by the effect that it has on the people that they don't have as good of a Mobility as the rest of the ensuring that our Charming downtown is accessible to all including elderly residents expecting mothers and especially those with disabilities now from a reliability perspective undergrounding distribution system offers six times more reliability than the overhead system this is the same information that this gentleman provided in Florida Power Light on their earnings report last week regarding their performance with during the hurricane Halen as well as Milton they mentioned it as well that you know how what the reason that they were able to rapidly put all the customers together was because of the again undergrounding of a lot of distribution system and for our and this is very important for our small businesses which is the backbone of our you know the our communities econ economics and also for the residents as well and from a commitment perspective when my fellow residents and I purchased our units we were assured that forthcoming improvements in the downtown area is important that was one of the biggest factors that you know frankly we decided you know also purchase in this uh location and also panal as well mentioned that you know the developer has already contributed $8,000 of the fund you know for this so this is our opportunity to make a bold statement about who we are and where we are going as a community let's take this step together let's invest in the future of downtown stward and create a legacy that we will all be proud of thank you so much thank you sir Steve invite valali Mr Vitali good evening Stephen Vitali I'm the owner of the old Colorado win in downtown Stewart $10 million is a lot of money but I think it's money well spent we are the recreational and entertainment center of Martin County downtown Stewart is also the governmental Center of the county it is also the business center of the county I just returned from a trip to Washington DC this morning the airport there you will notice has beautiful architecture one of the most beautiful airports in our country the Botanical Gardens and the Smithsonian and all of the the parks are are beautiful there and a lot of money is spent on them because when you have a capital you need to put your best foot forward and these five streets are kind of like the capital of Martin County that's how I look at them so I think the there's a definitely justification for spending this much money in this small area we are the the best small town in in America for many reasons one of which is our pedestrian friendliness and right now frankly it's aesthetically displeasing walking down seminal Street and if we have to add an extra poll it's going to be not only aesthetically aesthetically displeasing it's going to be uh difficult to walk down the street so I think um we need to spend this money it's a good project and I encourage you to vote in favor of it thank you for your time thank you I have no further comments comments there are questions from any board members board member Camp Penney well I always go first when this first came up I couldn't believe how the price keep kept escalating it went from what was it $4 A5 million and they kept on going up and I think panel had or someone had said $17 million so I I want to thank panel for doing all the work she's done done on this and especially the return on investment I find this very helpful and I don't I hate spending this amount of money on any project free Block but if the return on investment is only half we will get that money back so I'll bite my tongue and support even though I think we could spend spend money on other things but this is a great thing a good return on investment and it's not the or what we had said the last time we were here $17 million board member mistol uh yeah I'd like to thank board member bre bill for explaining the numbers and panel uh so basically the property values that are surrounding this project went from a value of like five million to over 50 like $59 million it was that big of an increase right and so and I confirm num and that translates directly into 10 times more tax revenue or so right okay all right that's great but there's overall here's this again I'm a big umbrella kind of guy who's the Trump like character in the room at the city that says yeah that's your bid now make it better make it cheaper show us you can but obviously we're not in a position to do that because no one else is bidding so have we reached that point where we have no leverage whatsoever and how much we pay for for projects of this size I guess the answer is yes that's all thank you board member brick bill yeah I um I did want to I said like I like I said before the I appreciate the return on investment and when we're looking at these projects in the CRA I think it's different than the city uh as a whole because first of all money that we get from the CRA we can only spend in the CRA so let's say we saved $2 million on this project and we invest that $2 million into a project that doesn't produce the same return we're really behind the aall I mean we really are going backwards and this is investment from a true investment standpoint not like this is how much money we're spending this not like spending is an investment this is an investment where we actually get a return in tax dollars and so I think that that's a significant factor here is that um and and it is I mean for one year we're looking at 899 % a 90% potential increase in property values and they're mostly commercial which don't have the save our home caps and other things and that's ultimately going to save our residents outside the city money because there's things then that we will have more money to do that will have taken care of in the CRA and you know the spillover effect uh the trickle down effect will occur I think in the in the residential areas outside so I mean I I agree with Tom I don't like spending and Frank I don't like spending you know $9 million but we're going to have to spend it at some point and this is a pretty good return on investment if we're going to spend board member Moser thank you I have a a few points uh first I want to talk about trees um right now downtown Stewart is a three season City it's too hot to go downtown in the summer and the business owners can tell you that um out of season when the snowbirds have left you know business gets a little tight um having Street trees downtown would allow folks to be able to visit downtown year round and it comfortable and not too hot and we can't do that unless we get our utilities ground um you can ride down Oola a little bit further east and see that the water Oaks there that are along the edge um interfering with utility poles have been acted back and look awful and and sick quite frankly they're not health so that's one reason I like this um second is I I've worked on two Street skate projects in Tennessee and Texas um since 2020 so more recent construction costs and and looking at the cost of this and those costs I think it it's in line and it makes sense and and last I want to say that investing in your street Scapes as a city is is a really smart idea and you do see a huge return on investment um I used to live in Spartan b b Spartanburg South Carolina and maybe 101 15 years ago they invested $30 million into their street streetcap program and within about five years they had $300 million private investment I looked up that number um about a month ago and now they're up to a billion dollars of private investment in their downtown um and that all was sparked from them investing in their city public spes board member Hawkins yes I just uh in all the conversation I just wanted to bring this up because it hadn't been said yet but uh in my experience working with Stuart Main Street in the survey as well as just being a patron of the downtown there's several businesses that stay open till later hours in the downtown and there's a lot of patrons that have expressed feeling unsafe on simal street because of the uh partly because of the lack of appeal but also because of the lack of lighting that is that there's back there during the night time so there is a plan to add lighting with the streetscape too so I just wanted to bring up that aspect of this project that it's not just an investment an investment into uh our downtown business and the infrastructure and hardening our infrastructure but it's also important for uh the safety of the patrons board member Noble I just want to add that uh there's an old saying you can't save your way to prosperity and uh the only thing I have to say about this is uh commissioner Collins has saved us so much money on the uh on the train that I think we got plenty of money to spend on this project why not yes board member Collins I'll take that as a compliment Andy thank you um panal you said we have 45 million in fund balance put in that account in fund balance we have about about 45 million dollar are we gonna have to take out a note to do this no I have money to do the the budget amendment for $3.7 million so panal is well aware that I have been skeptical of this project for as long as I've been discussing it and I Echo board member cam Penney's comments and concerns regarding it um and I was congratulations both to the city manager and panal because the city manager predicted that we would see this dramatic reduction in the cost and at the the numbers we saw before they were just they were not acceptable to me but this is I think you did a great job here working with these contractors and I appreciate your efforts and accomplishing what you did especially this remarkable type of it is a a semr contract where uh you know the overruns do not fall upon the city this is a great opportunity on seol and I just learned the term this week activate and activate the street most of these businesses actually go and where's Mr du they go you go you have access on aola and seminal correct they go through so that is a terrific opportunity um I often get asked you know can we turn acola into a pedestrian mall and I just don't think that's a good idea for a variety of reasons but I think this is a street that actually we could close off not infrequently and turn it into a really terrific area that people and families can walk up and down at night it's it's well shaded um I just think it'd be it could really enhance the downtown quality of life and so I'm glad we're able to take advantage of this opportunity mayor board member clerk thank you yes I agree with your comments and all the comments I especially like um Mr Breck's comments of course P all knew that we needed this information she provided it and it's a good thing um the price has been a big issue burkart and everybody who's been involved with this um we appreciate um the work that you've put into it and the detail that you've put into it and we're here because we want to make sure that our city of Stewarts stands as a beacon and especially our downtown area and we definitely know I agreed Mr hins about the safety issue on seol or anywhere downtown so I think it' be a good thing I hope that we'll be able to vote for this project project and that it will be done in a vigorous manner if we vote for it and we get it worked on thank you any other questions or comments see none Madam clerk will you take the role please board member breckbill I board member Reed yes board member Clark yes chair Rich yes board member Collins board member cenny yes and then I also have the other action item you have a resolution number yes for City commission approval do you want it's Madam Mr chairman cityne we have Mr bagot read it for our consideration please absolutely resolution number 114-124 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of Stewart Florida approving an amendment to the construction manager at risk contract under request for qualifications number 2024-the to Burkhart Construction Inc for the price not to exceed 8,756 34776 providing for conflicts providing for severability providing for an effective dat and for other purposes thank you I think we need additional presentations regarding this item so we have a motion in a second Mr chairman with regard to resolution number 114 2024 I move that we approve this staff recommendation a second I thought we were doing this C I appreciate your enthusiasm I'm just trying to keep going right do we have a second yeah just commissioner we have a motion by board member Clark and a second by board member Collins do we have any public comment on this item mayor may may I just uh ask for some clarification on this because I've run into this in the past you the motion was to approve the recommendation of Staff the staff has given three options okay um in our presentation so okay the best option penal I don't have my written I didn't I I don't have my the whole the whole project which is .7 million option one option one option one so your motion is approval of option one correct yes is that sufficient clarification Mr bagot yes uh if you looked at the presentation there were uh a few slides on pages four and five of the handout in front of you that had three options um I have it up here on the screen it's not labeled option one but no they're not labeled option one the first option is Phase One undergrounding op guaranteed maximum price of 8 million i' sort of implied that doesn't it yes just do what he wants okay how would you like us declare for the purposes of this resolution again I'll be the one asked to look at the resolution to make sure it's accurate but then I listen to the tape and it's not clear what you guys voted on so I I'm learning in this job and make that a part of the minute just so option one includes includes phase one undergrounding of simal Street phase two undergrounding basola and simal streetscape you had other options that would remove one or two of those three options so option one which has all three okay thank you madam clerk I'm sure that your motion will reflect that okay any comments or questions by any of the board members who are eligible to comment on this the Commissioners no I'll say one okay I I've I've echoed this in other settings but I hope that as a CRA we can start to move in the direction after this of I don't know if beautification would be the right U frame but fixing our roads repairing our roads um sidewalks Landscaping shade trees and out of these larger projects that I I think are expensive and I I don't really believe we can do this all over the city or the CRA so just just as a tack on to my vote I mean isn't this a good step towards that yes okay Madam clerk call the rooll please oh I have no public comment there is no public comment call the role please board member Clark yes board member Collins chair Rich yes board member Reed see no other items for our consideration is that correct this meeting is adjourned we will adjourn uh we will convene the next meeting at 6 o' e --------- ##VIDEO ID:9tTH09Yjv-k## this regular meeting of the steart Stu steuart City commission the 28th of October 2024 sorry for the late time but we ran a little long in our prior meeting will you call the role please Madame clerk mayor Rich yes here commissioner Collins here commissioner Clark here commissioner go and commissioner Reed here so we have the pleasure this evening of our invocation being provided by Pastor James harp and will you then lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance after well don't worry about the late hour you know we are covered by Grace here so that's uh that's good let's pray father thank you for this evening and once again the opportunity uh to come together and and Lord uh watch you at work in our city I thank you for these once again that you have placed in leadership over our community Lord we thank you for them and your word tells us the Bible tells us that we're to pray for them we're to pray for those who that you have placed there and God we pray for them and ask your blessing to be upon them and their families Lord continue to encourage them and give them wisdom and Direction and guidance as they lead and and God we will continue to thank you for them Lord we uh are at a time in our in our world where we need hope and we thank you for the hope that we find uh in in you God and in your word and uh Lord your word tells us uh that we can can seek you and and find you when we seek you with all our heart and uh Lord your word says in Romans chapter 15 May the L May the god of Hope fill you with all joy and peace and believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope so thank you God bless this evening guide and direct conversations and we just give you all the praise in Jesus name amen pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all thank you Pastor harp comments by City commissioners commissioner Reed do you have any thoughts this evening I do I have some more prepar stuff for this evening uh I do want to say I want to apologize to uh City attorney Lee baggot for getting to shout you out for all the great things you do for this board um I'm constantly in your office asking for legal advice um to make sure I'm on the up and up and doing my job as a board member up here so thank you Mr bagot also I was I was able to attend the making strides Against Breast Cancer Walk it was hosted by American Cancer Society over the weekend um for anyone that has not had cancer affect your family it is a very dangerous um and it will affect you emotionally physically as uh not only a human being as seeing all the survivors out there but your family as well um I also want to talk about spending time in the chamber at the BC and they have a light system and for anyone that hasn't been there basically it it allows the chair to control the meeting much better and professionally so when you want to provide comment we're not just shouting at fellow board members you hit a momentary switch it notifies the chair and then he'll know who needs to be recognized so they can speak um I think it'd be awesome for the city to try to implement this I'm not sure what the cost would be maybe that would send Mike in a direction we actually um have looked into it in the past and also tried to integrate with computer believe it or not when they built this room uh this is not Hollow underneath us it's a p slab so it amazingly it would have been great storage it would have been very easy to run new wiring Etc we talked about adding computer screens and all of the stuff and the uh cost went quickly too high I think and we've I've met with Darren on at multiple occasions but I think we could put the light system in just as a basic click and Light um because it just would literally be on off here and three-way for everybody but not the computers one of the things that kind of discouraged it was the idea that the city was going to be doing a new um City Hall at the other building and as a result nobody wanted to spend the money necessary to rewire and Jackhammer stuff up but I think we could probably get the light system in without any without much effort because it just would be the LED and click on click off yeah I definitely don't want to Jackhammer floors and stuff that that that is definitely an added cost um also I want to mention having emails online like the BC does um I know from being at that Podium for many years or listening to meetings it's nice to see emails publicly and accessible without doing public record request from board members or from the administrative side of things um also I'm not sure I know Jody has talked about the permit system being online um I know that would save me a bunch of headaches with constantly go into the building department to find out what's going on with a it's online now andely onl there's a portal and you can actually email the different departments and respond to your projects and check on inspection requests and communicate and submit additional submittal so like if I log in I can search someone else's permits based off of address or contract search all of the open permits gotta but if you your own personal right and you can assign someone else access to it so I know that one was online I was looking more for if I want to search other permits throughout the city besides my own um also I want to talk about early voting it ends November 2nd voting days November 5th um and then I have something about public records that would be nice for our board members so public records is defined to include all documents papers letters Maps books tapes photographs films sound recordings data processing software or other material material regardless of the physical form characteristics or means of transmission made or received pursuant to law or ordinance or in connection with the transaction of official business by any agency a public official or employees use of a private cell phone to conduct public business via text messaging can create an electronic written public record subject to disclosure if the text message is prepared owned used or retained within the scope of his or her or employment or agency there was a case city of Sunny Isles Beach versus gate and it says noting that a City Commissioner's text messages may be a public record although a private communication by a municipal official Falls outside the definition of public record to summ it up private conversations are merely private conversations regardless of the communication type used or the device it was created from I have no problem fulfilling public record requests I did receive a public record request from Sarah Woods on behalf of Martin County regarding my transparency speech are any of my fellow board members receiving public record requests to this level of scrutiny or is it just me this seems to take up more time than performing the job of researching agenda items that are important to conducting City business I had seven individual packets ready for public record requests with the county but as of right now I have more pressing issues to focus on than on fishing Expeditions for public records against the county to further add on to transparency I'll take it right from the sunshine manual the Sunshine Law does not make mandate that an agency provide notice of each item to be discussed via a published agenda although the Attorney General's office has recommended the publication of an agenda if available the courts have rejected such a requirement because it could effectively preclude access to meetings by members of the general public who wish to bring specific issues before a governmental body thus the Sunshine Law does not require boards to consider only those matters on a published agenda whether to impose the requirement that restricts every relevant commissioner board from considering matters not on an agenda is a policy decision to be made by the legislature even though the Sunshine Law does not prohibit a board from adding topics to the agenda of a regularly noticed meeting the Attorney General's office has advised boards to postpone formal action on any added items that are controversial in the spirit of the Sunshine Law the commission should be sensitive to the community's concerns that it allowed advanced notice and therefore meaningful participation on controversial issues coming before the commission meaning don't vote for an RFP for bright line without having public input and it not being on as an agenda item thank you [Applause] [Music] Comm clerk for the record um I'm finished oh thank you you are finished correct yes yes thank you commissioner I do all right yeah um we've made history normally I give give a shout out to Milton or utilities never given a shout out to the City attorney so congratulations for getting noticed so that's good I know that when Mr mortell was a City attorney a long time ago he would always say that you know there's a lot of work that happens behind the scenes and so we appreciate your work and your breath of knowledge Mr um bagot so thank you um I have nothing else to say I just said I've been you know we didn't have the storm here but the storm was mostly in Port selero marinina Sands and other areas in Martin County but um still continue to look out for your neighbor and continue to think of what other people are going through and if you can help help there are lots of Facebook ways in order to help people and of course FEMA has been down there and I know in the new Monro area the new Monro CDC is um helping families and they're getting uh they information from families and those there they have a list and so they're on Facebook you can look them up or you can contact lorenda gray if you need the information I can give it to you because these families really need help and and consideration um that's it thank you thank you commissioner Clark commissioner Collins I have none um I have a comment so sorry for my horse voice I I've been a little under the weather recently so um we talked earlier about a project that we had been considering for years literally years with many public meetings and workshops and that was the undergrounding and we finally came to a good decision I feel let me talk to you about something else that we spent years talking about years engaged in workshops in public input and that is last time we made a decision regarding changing the zoning that impacts the city and that is form based code and we started this process back in 2021 I actually started it when I was still on the LPA and numerous presentations from the Treasure Coast League of cities numerous workshops we spent months and months talking about it and understanding it and then in it was let me get the exact date here in January of 22 we published our proposed codes and then we began a whole another round of consideration of the impact of form based code on the creek district and East Stewart and went to those workshops in 10 Street and understood the impact of the decisions we were going to make and it was actually over a year later we then formally ad Ed the form based code we most recently have done that completely backwards with this ZIP and just out of the blue we're going we're shutting it down and then we're going to do workshops and then we're going to talk to you and then we're going to understand the impact and in the meantime there have been and understandably so because we did not proed this decision with these workshops with talking to our constituents with due diligence there have been some unintended side effects something you rarely hear from your government is oops we made a mistake amen and I'm afraid that's the case although I was glad I did watch the meeting and thank you commissioner Clark for running that meeting you did a very nice job I did hear from the group it said oh we had no intention of doing that but nonetheless it's happened and I would just like us to take the opportunity to correct some of those more Grievous errors to a degree so in light of that commissioner Collins I once again I'm passing you the gavl and I would like to make a motion that we make an exception for any PUD application that does not have a res residential component that that can come forward because I don't think that's where we're aiming and there's been some difficult circumstances as a result of that so that is my motion I'll second it for discussion okay so we have a it's yours uh would you like to go a public comment or would you guys like to move right into discussion I think I think normally public comment would proceed our discussion all right so absolutely now we would have public comment if there's any public comment on this issue that's been brought up no this is being brought this was brought during commissioner comments so it's this specific to the zoning in progress right I currently have none commissioner call okay so comments from board members I'd like to get clarification on this then maybe from the city attorney Mr baggot how would this work with codes that are going to be proposed to be changed would all of these people have to meet this or is that something where mayor Rich would have to modify his motion to include that and then how would that work out from a legality perspective US versus all these potential applicants that might turn it in and then all of a sudden they have to meet new code and change their site plans uh they could have to change uh civil engineering plans to meet there could be a bunch of things that could potentially need change so um I I look at the puds as being its own zoning District so uh I my understanding the stuff you're looking at is you know standard zoning issues that wouldn't cover puds but when you further carve out I mean I I heard comments that you guys were only looking at the residential portions or multif family type issues and and not commercial we've heard had an outcry of commercial um developers and applicants because they can't move forward and um so I mean understand that this is for puds so if they are able to move forward it's not like straight zoning where they can just go forward without even coming before the commission so any amendment to a PUD is going to have to come before the board um and so this even further limits it that um you know my it's my impression so far that your discussions are around resident or multif family issues and not straight commercial so I I I think this limits it to puds and also it limits to where there is no uh residential component which seems to be the majority of your discussion as far as any changes how would that work for the shared parking that's in there it wouldn't affect shared parking then I I guess again with a PUD it's going to come before you well that would shed parking would include residential so the motion is to not include those that have residential so if it related to that and had a shared parking it couldn't come forward because it wouldn't meet the exception for whatever for the current phase that it's right but when if it if somebody brought something a new application five years from now whatever the code says in five years is what going to have to meet anyone right not retroactive right but you have businesses who want to take over existing commercial facilities and existing parking lots yeah who can't they like the and they they've been vacant for years and to I just to to deny them that opportunity hurts them obviously and hurts the city um I get it I mean and as Mr bagot says they have to come before us so I get it I mean I can speak on personal experience I have a project in the City that's been inting for quite a while where I've been going back and forth so I I totally understand I think it should compel us to just move quickly and swiftly and do a thorough job but get done quickly I'm concerned that if we start making exceptions for certain type of puds um Mo most specifically with reference to parking so parking is is a change that very much could affect commercial only puds and uh if we're letting in those applications now those parking requirements will carry with them moving forward um after the zip so more than trying to make exceptions for certain types of puds we're doing this comprehensive look we moved quite quickly we got through all of two um I know there's frustrations here but I would rather us my my take on this be thorough get it done i' talk to Mr mortell about you know instead of waiting for regularly scheduled crb and LPA meetings let's have you know not an emergency but let's schedule an emergency crbn LPA if it needs to go through there and get this done fast so the we we' treat it'd be a special meeting forgive me special meeting uh for this to get it done I'm with I'm with you guys and wed to get it done but I don't want to start I think we're going to open a can of worms by trying to have it be just enough to get this project through at some point you have to stop everything so that you can get this all dialed in line item sorted out visit the code and then that opens back up and somebody's going to be kept outside it's unfortunate but to be able to do this process the right way you need to be able to have those boundaries so we can work and get it done it be my perspective Mr Mayor commissioner Clerk and we also have to be very transparent to our public so when we get to neighborhoods and we're talking about changes I think that those will I know we have a meeting coming up on the 7th but I think that those will maybe create a little bit of a stall where people might want to give more input and they want to know what's going to happen beside their property and how things are going to happen to property that they own that may not be developed especially those who have small Lots who want to develop their small lots and if we're making change changes to have larger Lots so it's it's I think having neighborhoods involved and making sure that people are coming to these discussions that we're having um it's it's it's going to make it longer and I think we're not going to we're those people are still going to have the opportunity to come before us and something like the I I like the wind Dixie parking lot it's not going to increase in parking it's going to be what it is this is just a reuse a Redevelopment and I think that it's it's it should be as as long as we can see what they're reusing I'm just using them as an example it it it really we can we can answer those questions I mean you're you're asking us to do the exact opposite of what we've been criticized for we talked about bright line for a year we had meeting after meeting after meeting and suddenly people show up and go you never talked about it you are now saying I want to make dramatic changes to the city's code and I want to rush it no you're not there's not enough time to talk to the business Community there's not enough time to have these workshops I don't know if you forget how much responsibility we have with foreign based code and to talk to people and due diligence and it takes time you can't go dramatic change let's compress it so you're trying to eat your cake and have it too here and I just it's at the expense for people who keep talking about small government this is a big effect and it's there's no reason for it they're not going to have more parking at wend Dixie where the old Windixie it's and G have to come before us so you can express your concerns you can make them well known I think the the willingness of us to do it on a case-by Case basis for a very small number is a much better way for this city to proceed at this point and and I appreciate your concerns you've shared that along the way that you'd rather not be in a zoning in progress you'd rather if we were going to make changes move into more of like a form based code type but we are in a zoning in progress and we are in the process of looking through those codes and you said you watched that meeting we we made quite a bit of progress in going um you know code by code we did we got a lot done and I I wouldn't categorize it as sweeping changes that are new in fact we are restoring the rules as they were before um let's say the last five years you know before some of us were up here I won't throw staff under the bus but there were dramatic changes in density that were added uh dramatic changes in what we allowed for parking dramatic changes in what how we even defined a unit this sort of stuff maybe you forgot when you were going door too is what the vast majority of people told us that they were upset about and why they've now ousted effectively four of the people who were involved in that process this is a big deal that needs to be addressed now there is no confusion about what the people who live here want the only confusion that seems to be coming up both in our previous zip and tonight is wanting to make these exceptions and sort of drag this out into larger workshops and make this a long process it doesn't have to be this was very focused and we got a lot done at the last meeting and I'm looking forward to the next one so that we can button this up our staff can put it together and then we can have that presented so it can be worked on by Boards and then it can be voted and be done and everybody can get back to business this thing of workshops and going on and on and it has to be a long process it doesn't it truly doesn't commissioner Collins may I sir absolutely so I'd like to reiterate so we have four out of five board members that are new up here over the last two elections what does that tell you in the community people were sick and tired of the direction that the city was heading in obviously for density for you to change four out of five seats that's astronomical I'd like to remind one of our fellow board members up here that one in an election cycle while you're sitting in traffic on Monterey and Cana Road on that nice fancy light up billboard it's stated are you tired of sitting in traffic why don't we put a pause on development with a moratorium and you're worried about a zoning in progress a moratorium is way worse that's all thank you someone propos a more are there any other comments from Commissioners no mayor no Mary would you call the role I will uh commission or maybe restate no there's a motion by mayor mayor rich and a second by m and it says make an exception for any PUD applications that does not have a residential component is that clear for everybody very clear okay thank is there a public comment we any public comment La kind of last chance before we vote on this any public comment all right seeing none Mary Su commissioner Collins no mayor Rich yes commissioner Reed no and commissioner Clark yes so the motion dies at the tie motion fails motion fails so we are so you resume the gavl resume I back to comments comments comments by City commissioners comments by the city manager please um I have a couple of things number one I wanted to uh give accolades to our uh engineering department and particularly uh the Water Department they've been working on a study and they've had to review 5,200 some odd lines of pipe that are underground to provide a copper and Lead report as to the status of our uh pipes in the city and as you might imagine some of these pipes have been here a long time and there's the records aren't as clean as they probably should be so it was an an astronomical and Monumental undertaking and they provided me the report copy of it last week and the very good news is that the city is lead free um I will say that the uh report we we only inspect the pipes up to the meter so if someone owns a building or a house where the have pipes in their private property that would be different than than the city's side of it but it still was a huge undertaking and they worked very hard on it and did a great job with it so I'm happy about that how many miles is I don't know how many miles was 5200 miles or was it it's 5200 lines it's not miles it's lines that's a lot can't be miles oh well thank you I was a team team effort really um they're actually they're 5,000 390 service lines that were that were inspected throughout the city in a 9-month period of Time how do you inspect those just out of curiosity they were physically dug up uh oh my gosh around the the water meters and uh and visual was made on each and every service line um which is great and it was a good news um the um other thing uh we are diligently moving forward on station three and today the city uh uh introduced eight new firefighters to our community uh so that we are hopeful that we will be having a ribbon cutting and a grand opening of station three formally during the month of November and I will be getting back to you on that as we get closer and I speak to the the chief for uh battalion chief Honeycut um and um lastly uh I was contacted by a resident and he's lived in his home for many years and um in his front yard a pine tree has grown to an enormous height and during the storm some branches blew off the pine tree and damaged his car he uh told me that um he's frustrated because the pine tree is actually in the city's right of way and he wants the city's tree team to cut the tree because it's over 35 fet in the air and he can't get to it I explained to him that we don't actually have a tree team because we first don't plant trees in private properties yards and our code prohibits residents from planting trees in the right of way but residents still plant trees in the right of way but it happens and in this instance I don't know what's wrong with the tree but there's Rod I guess and some of the branches have fallen and he's concerned that the branches are going to fall again in the future I told him I would bring it up and and tell the commission our code doesn't give me the authority to selectively provide landscaping or maintenance to any individual properties um I know that Milton has been called out to the site and he doesn't have the people so we would actually have to hire a a tree company or somebody to trim the branches and I'm not sure if um they would open up a can of worms for us to have to do it for anybody that asks after that uh but I did also tell the resident that I would bring it up because he also mentioned that for 30 years he has maintained the city's right of way as well as the city easement that goes for the last 10 feet in his backyard and he felt like it was our turn to contribute to him um I I don't know if the commission has any knowledge of it or or feelings on it I said I would bring it up um if after the meeting or anything anybody wants to discuss it with me or you want me to take action to bring it back to have the city trim it please let me know as of right now uh without any actual authority to move forward on that it's it becomes very complicated to pick and choose who qualifies and who doesn't so and Mr Mortel the hazard that was caused by the tree fall and is on his property it's not on the rideway or ined in travel it's not ined travel it's not it's not in the road it's 20 fet onto his property or so and it's been there for 20 years so it was growing and was in full health and then something's happen I don't know if he got struck by lightning or if the tree is dying or if it's rotted but he had branches that he says are rotten and he's afraid they're going to fall and fall on his vehicle that he Parks underneath the tree and and and I said I would bring it up but I I it's has he ever asked the city to remove it prior to when it was like 10t tall no um in fact I don't know if he planted it or if it was there when he bought the house either but I do know that I looked on the satellite picture and it's a pretty big tree but I also know that I looked like prior years and like five years ago the tree was very Lush and green and full and it's an evergreen so it's not like it loses leaves or you know becomes dormant and the most recent satellite picture it looks like it's got some kind of infestation or something that's killing it because it doesn't really it looks like it's in bad shape but again you know it's the question is you know how do we how do we regulate that if we open that up and start going house by house because I know I'd love to have you guys come trim trim my Palms every month or so so I just wanted to mention it to you because I assume he's probably going to Pro call you as well and I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it that's all I've got Milton you actually went out to this any comments no moving okay are you done yeah that's all I have I have nothing further can I get a motion for the approval of the agenda please move approval of the agenda is published second we have a motion by commissioner Clark and a second by commissioner Collins any public comment on the agenda if not uh all in favor I I comments from the public on non-agenda related items mayor I do have several okay Miss Ora Solomon could you state your name and address please when you get up there good afternoon my name is orc Solomon I live on 1009 Southeast 16 court not only I'm a native of Stewart but I was born in city of Stewart so I've been here most of my life I've traveled but I'm here from Stewart I have a question and I have something I would like to say comments and recommendations for our new guy Davis Park location at 7:24 East 10 Street and Stewart that's a park that's a place that I've known as a child I'm age 79 and I still know that but I was shocked when I found that so many things has changed I got a question the $7 million that the new guy Davis supported complex master plan for 20 25 and phase one through Phase 5 include number one a new addition to the Park's name I would like to suggest the name g Davis sport complex East St Heritage Museum Learning Center for that particular part because the people in East St have always been at that park has always been at that building now it has changed so much you can't even hardly go in it especially when it come to the kids this should be changed in 2021 2 5 phase one it should be decreed and changed what Mr Collins immediately thank you the listen the recreation center that no longer provides after school for our girls and boys they're at the new Boys and Girls Club for the East Stewart Community children located at 724 East 10 Street Stewart Florida it should be designated as the EAS to a Heritage Museum Learning Center so our kids can continue to learn and be there in their own Community this should be decreed and proposed and included in the master plans for the new God Davis $7 million par effed immediately in Phase 1 2025 again I also ask that the city of store Florida Commissioners all of you officials and the easto her Advisory Board committee make this major priority over any other requests related to The Rush Bal Collins skate park new master plans for the god Davis Park in 25 is beyond I really would like to see that instead of a skate park before we get what we needed to do in God Davis part that's what I'm asking hello anybody home hey James thank you ma'am I'd just like to remind members of the public that you cannot address any specific member up here we all sit together hello good afternoon I'm F James and I live at 514 Southeast Florida Street St Florida and I just like to um quickly comment on what Miss Solomon had to say um that it's been brought to my attention and I am also on the East Stewart historical advisory committee for the east stor um our job is to make sure that we have but not limited to uh recognizing preservation in our community sharing this information with our community and that board has been working due diligent for a few years now and total maybe almost nine years and I understand that we're not supposed to address anyone particular ly but it's been brought to my attention that one of the Commissioners has taken it upon um himself to bring about changes for phase one the $500,000 that's supposed to be allocated and used for the park to rush the well what I heard the new name is boss Collins skate par Park so I find that that's not an emergency it is in the plan it is in the plan for the five phases it's not to happen immediately day one I believe that there has been this is a a part of Civility that I find very disturbing that you all say you go by here at the city that you recognize and treat everyone polite lightly and we were never informed even the East Stewart historical advisory committee and we called a special meeting last Tuesday October 22nd miss panal that sits there she never said one word that this has come up and that you all voted on this on October 14th to rush the skate park and to do nothing else over president to the skate park that this is Major priority from my understanding attorney Gordon um show I guess that's his name came before you all I was here at that meeting a year ago privately wanted to fund that part said they would raise the money to do so understanding came back recently said that failed and now he's wanting us to rush and one of the Commissioners has decided to say go ahead let's do that let's take that money that's important we should be looking at making sure that the name of the park stays and that we add a Heritage Museum and learning center to the east Stewart Community using the Stewart recreation park and our monies that has been set aside for that and I ask you to postpone your decision that you've made already on this rush for thecate park that's already included in the plan thank you thank you ma'am Karen Hall good evening thank you for your service uh I want to talk up we're not allowed to talk to give it names but to the last meeting one of our commissioners was talking about transparency and I want to talk about transparency as well Martin County if you email something to them to the Commissioners or Sarah Woods or Taran Chris I guess she's gone but you could that was always available to the public why can't we do that why aren't we doing that I was told we were cut back from five to three minutes and it was because Martin County did it and they put public comment first thank you and so why can't we do that I would have I I think it would have changed things in my own situation if I If people could see the emails between me and the City attorney um why don't we do that can someone look into that I don't think it's that expensive and I think as the public since we're paying for everything that we um we deserve that I want to see what people wrote To The City attorney to Mr Mort um city manager and and all my Commissioners what are your you know don't get up there and say I got 200 emails I think we've been through this I want to see our we deserve to see whatever you're doing who you're talking to and you can't do it on your private email which I've had you have we should see that and if it costs something we'll pay for it you guys you have all ideas what to do with our money well that's one thing you can do is let us see emails I want to see when this woman emails the the whomever up there and I want to see the response and not I have too much people not getting back to me and I'm sure to others and I appreciate our mayor as a champion of downtown but I think sometimes you g you guys get up there for so long you don't realize the rest of the community they are poor they are struggling struggle to make their rent their mortgage feed their kids that's why you don't have people here they care but they can't afford it downtown is not everything okay so thanks for that but man I want you guys to go to uh places where people are poor and walk around and talk to them I don't know if any of you did that when you were running for commission but I am telling you you've got to understand what's really going on downtown's this much your constituents are this much and they need to be uh attended to and you know we talk about all the development we have no affordable housing we don't take care of people I just you know but I feel like we can do it we got to just keep quit thinking about the club everybody in the club downtown there are people out there that need good decisions from you go visit them go to Shepherd's Park talk to a homeless person go somewhere and talk to somebody that is not as entitled not entitled as privileged as you are you're privileged so anyway love you thank you Frank mistal um I'd like to say thank you to the uh commission especially the commission majority for your leadership during the last I don't know how long you been in office but one of you for two years and the other two of you hope she's listening somewhere uh thank you uh and as I told you last time I had public comment there's a chance that you're the first commission at any level that went out and with your hard work got yourself elected not with the big cabal money you went up against the money and you did the hard work to get yourselves elected and then and I realized just the process of doing that and meeting all the people you met and really getting a temperature of your constituents has made you who you are and I just want you to know that it is greatly appreciated Again by no one who can come to these meetings because they're getting ready ready for work tomorrow and they're dead beat okay so again you're not going to be perfect but thank you for probably being the first commission for a long long long time in the entire country that isn't owned by anybody except the majority of the people that got you elected on a on a yellow more yellow note I would like to uh I I would suggest that we as a city make sure the county knows that we support their idea you don't you don't want to know what I do with my hand out the window whenever I'm sitting and watching those guys go by um yeah I'm the crazy guy that does that yeah uh but uh maybe a a letter of support saying yeah that's not a bad idea for the train station to be at the fairgrounds and thank you for your leadership on that and I'll I'll I'll miror Mr Noble's comments at the other meeting thank you for all the money I it's hard to tell so far I know you're negotiating with bright line still but however much money you're saving us it's a boatload and we really appreciate it so thank you so much jet price hello good afternoon doet price 2574 wins Stuart you know funny to follow this guy where he says this is probably the first commission I will tell you in all my years of doing this over 20 30 something years yeah this is definitely the first commission that's going to make some serious history and I'm going to watch it and like it right um I see a lot of person no vendettas I see I'm happy to see the folks on E come out here and actually put their voice forward about the skate part that been served not their Community CU I'm sure when any of you look guys go out there police going show up and lock him down but that's just my experience over time of watching this happen in different communities where things are pushed through by folks with a personal agenda now the zip that's what I'm here about I hope I keep hearing that everybody's kind of Rush this thing and push this thing and have these different meetings and whatever and inclusion of the community I've seen one two little bit on that today and I have had no Community involvement or discussion or sitting around to see what needs to happen with this zoning code if you guys really feel that you're going to go and pick on your neighbor here or there or pot you know spot Zone and P pick what you want to do and change and hope that it's going to happen with let's rush it through in 45 days we're done you're talking 180 280 maybe a year and we're still going to be here fighting and there may be a few lawsuits involved in that right so when you're sitting here thinking oh I'm going to make these vast changes and because we have sat here and we going come and make something happen affordable housing they have R2 and R3 that allows up to 5,000 foot size homes that's still small that's a decent Siz lot right you can do some ser serous nice homes on there what I call missing Mill that can happen but now they want to increase it to 6,000 because somebody across the street might not do what they want and they want to make a change to make sure that their house look better or vice versa what happens to all those people that have those zoning with those lots that are 5,000 square ft in an R2 or R3 there's a lot of them I go and I look on that map and I actually can pick out about 20 around where these part particular people live that are in that zoning that will now be impacted that may not be able to get their things insured and or be able to rebuild if something ever happen like a tornado come true why because somebody want to change the zoning to improve and make it better for de look a house that they bought and went there and saw and came and got when you guys are looking at this ZIP I'm going tell you you can say you want to rush it through you can say you want to slow it down but you better really think about what the real impacts are the attorney can sit there and say oh certain things but you better be very careful of how you're proceeding with it thank you thank you sir Albert Brinkley like to say good evening to you all to hear this comment about the skate park and being on the east historical board and the board don't know anything about that that is really disgusting it's like we being used and I don't like to be used by nobody that is disrespectful to the board that is disrespectful to you stood cuz when this first came up the people of East stood said we did not want no skate park because it wouldn't benefit our kids I went around talking to kids nobody nobody in East stood was interested in a skate park it's really upsetting that we sitting on this board nobody said not one thing not one thing to us about this so I look at us as being used you all are disrespecting the Community it's like we don't even exist in the city of Stewart we're part of Stewart we're tied of being overlooked this should have never gone by the East stward historical board it's just like you all is just doing what you want to do when it come to East Ood we are somebody we want something we won't change but we won we don't want no change that is not going to to benefit e to it we won't change that it's going to benefit going to help our kids Skate Park not going to help our kids it's not going to help you all need to start listening to the people of East stood and stop doing what you all want to do that's what's going on in government today government is just sitting by doing what they want to do that is selfish God don't like selfish people God don't like selfish people he want you to put others before self and this has been going on too long and it's time to change think about that forign base code that should have never exist I sit here that day when that subject came up and the subject was combining the Creed district and East St it together and Pete wson sit up there and he said you all need to realize what eood is eood is a residential community and I came right behind him and said the same thing and you still implement the F based code which if that exist what is going to do to a community like that push the people right out God is not pleased with self youall better change you better change just like that gutter place down there we got to deal with that noise every morning that gutter company should have never been put in Easter it wouldn't be put in no white neighborhood it wouldn't be in no white neighborhood that gutter company is disrespectful to the easto community thank you Mr Brinkley bet Brinkley where's the gutter company good evening um Betty Brinkley 9 45 Southeast nasar Avenue and um I'm here say we hear we on that historic advisor board we sitting up there you get us up there and we up there working trying to get the history and all this together then we just disregarded as human being is it because how we look the make up of I want to know if it ain't this The Makeover where be coming from or something you disregard us disrespect us like that I believe I heard I feel just like you all up there feel that making these I I I work and I own a home I'm buying a home I want something and we trying to have something and here you come and snatch it from me because my makeup or something where I look why why it don't it don't make sense uh it's too it's too late in the evening for foolishness hate you know too much hate in America we need to go back to God read the Bible and see what God telling us to do he say love your enemy as well as your neighbor and stuff you love your enemy I'm not I don't look like most of you up there but I never did nothing to none one of you but you you can look at me some of you can look at me and say they don't deserve this or they ain't cuz they make up of the SK or whatever where they live they ain't they ain't Rich they poor and that should be not in America the great nation we are and we got this kind of stuff still going on please why that enough of that and what I want to say with the city and he stood our water bill is so high and I wonder why in East Stewart you paying all this I'm paying nearly $200 and I don't have no that many people in my house $150 $180 a month for water bill I'm paying somebody else water bill that's what it seemed like to me seems and now the baseball park but you don't realize I was a child and I played B uh softball on that baseball field I'm 75 years old now and that thing been out there that's history and all the something you make up you got all this money you make up a a excuse it costs too much but you got so much money so what it is to pay somebody to to keep the field up keep the history going the kids still playing out there I pass by and see out there practice y'all come on thank you yeah have a good thank you miss brinky Helen McBride M McBride plans are all still hel McBride from Flamingo Avenue 51 years ago when I moved here uh and I registered my children for school I was told by Mr cook that John would be attending in school over in East Stewart and I had no idea where it was but I went over and I'll always remember that day I rode down 10th Street and the old 10th Street rec center up over it was a wood sign painting with white paint Soul Center so that's how far back I go also 1973 when I came here my children went to JD Parker with everybody else's children but the black kids went to the 10th Street recck Center but my kids had to go to the Flagler Center so that was only 51 years ago so I know where my neighbors are coming from and that that because I always keep did Dr Mr Gore I I'm in east Europe and I'm on the west side of Palm Beach Road and he's on the east side of Palm Beach Road but they're right I came you know I'm always here at the meetings I was shocked when I came to the last meeting about the skateboard and I'm thinking I go to all these meetings at 10th Street and Mrs Fay has been very nice and invited me to come to her group's meetings here here in City Hall T skateboard pickle board that should be down the line what we want like now when my kids came up from Miami my grandsons I send them over I went out and bought well I bought two basketballs now I bought the basketball so and J CH is where they going CH Street know that's what the basketball courts are and they one time it was the soccer bowl and they went over to play soccer that's my part by my neighbor Hood so I think you I don't think knowing you all mean to do this but you got these groups like you had the group here for uh the skateboard you know they're not my neighbors well but some are uh but we're Easter was founded in 1913 and they were forced I'm going to use the word forced to build those homes on those little Lots because that's that's the only place they could build a house but please I know you you've got a big heart and thing but listen to the people we got a great committee here and I don't blame it from being mad that's why I'm speaking I'm I think I'm white Mrs Brinkley uh someone to say hey it was this is the way it was in 73 this is 2025 these are wonderful kids we have at I'm a senior citizen at the 10th Street rec center I watched those children grow I've been there with there now for eight years they're wonderful kids please thank you thank you Miss McBride I have none all done okay um consent calendar do we have a motion with regard to the consent calendar motion to approve the items number one and two on the consent calendar because nothing was pulled and I unless you we'll have them separately there if nothing is pulled the consent calendar will be the consent calendar commissioner Reed I didn't have any questions I'll address them I mean I can't address if I can address the public can I a second before that I mean you guys are welcome to give each other comments or whatever you wanted to do mayor Rich may I second well you sort of made your comments earlier we generally don't engage all allow members of the public to distract our discussion or that's fine so if it's a no just let me know yeah it is a no thank you that's the easiest thing you're free to call you yes you're free to call any member who speaks and speak to them individually thank you that's a better way to proceed commissioner Reed um motion to approve the consent calendar second so we have a motion by commissioner Clark and a second by commissioner Reed is there any public comment on the consent calendar seeing none roll call please commissioner Reed yes commissioner Collins yes mayor Rich yes and commissioner Clark yes commission action seeing none wow no there's well there's a discussion deliberation yes we're now at a DND discussion and deliberation on the commissioner code of conduct review um so uh at the last minute meeting there was some comments in the public and also uh commissioner Reed had uh read the uh letter about transparency and professionalism and prior to that myself and had and some of the staff members had been addressing potentially bringing forward the uh code of conduct for updating because first of all it was several years old already and uh I think it was adopted in 2017 which makes it seven years old without much updating and in it there's some policies that the city policy isn't exactly the same as the policy that's written in the document as well as the fact that last year a state law was adopted as it related to um all employees and um first state law requires all board members including volunteer boards to have emails and then the state law requires anybody with an email must have training as it relates to to um the hacking and the access to the computers and and stuff like that because of the expense to the state and so in order for us to maintain our insurance and to continue complying with state law we have to do these we select no before what you guys are familiar with I think but um we needed to add some language to that to address the um all of the people with emails and then also um as Mr Reed pointed out um we have seen in a very significant uptick in public records requests and in fact I received 27 today um 27 separate yeah uh but um so you're not alone um but for what it's worth um in the uh in speaking the City attorney as well as the clerk the county had recently adopted a uh a public records policy um as well and so what I was uh what I figured is I put the actual con the actual code of conduct that the commission adopted in 2017 on the discussion and deliberation agenda for tonight to kind of get your feedback to see if in fact you want staff to bring it back on the November 12th meeting with a resolution to either amend it abolish it remove it change it whatever it is you want to do I will say that there are other cities um that have codes of conduct and there are also cities that have absolutely nothing when this issue arose it was because the commission was having discussions and technically the City commissioners do not fall under the employee Personnel policies so they're independent however they do do fall under the commission on ethics as well as the sunshine laws and the public records laws that are statutory in nature and and and the state's Authority one of the things that the public comment was commenting on last week was the fact that the um code of conduct doesn't have any quote unquote teeth in it but that wasn't an accident um this was actually drafted by uh Mr nicketti but the truth of it is the state specifically grants the authority to the governor to and to the electorate to address City commissioners and it even if we had policies in it that said the city Comm Miss commission could punish each other um I don't think that it would be legal because I don't think the state it would it would be contrary to State Statute I also think it's a bit risky um to go down that path for several reasons one of the things that was recommended was that the city create a committee and that the committee would hear the any complaints about any of the Commissioners and then would rule on those complaints I said to the folks that met with me about that this was many years ago well number one who's the committee and how is it made up number two they're not elected and then number number three if in fact somebody made 52 complaints about one of the Commissioners the city would have to call 52 meetings for that committee to get together and if they had the 52 meetings for the committee to get together and it was unfounded all 52 times but the following summer when the election time came and the postcards came out it would say don't vote for commissioner X because he or she was subject to 52 ethics here ings last year and it would be misleading because of course they would be just personal attacks trying to get even and then the other thing is what amounts to something significant enough to be on the committee for a violation would it if somebody accidentally cut you off in traffic is that enough is it somebody ignored you in the grocery store I mean you know at what level does it amount to something that um would make it to the committee and I know for sure that the staff does not want to make those decisions no matter what so what I thought I'd do is put it on the D and D for tonight and just provide you guys a copy of of the current addition if you are interested we can make some draft edits and bring it back if you are not interested and feel like it's served its purpose and it's run its course because um it was adopted 7 years ago and I don't know that there's ever been a time that it's been utilized for any purpose at during the meetings um it can also um expire but in the event that the code of conduct is going to expire we still want to come forward on a public records policy not so much that it would be the identified specifically just to the city commission as much as it's going to be to the uh entire city and staff um so that would be coming forward anyway as would the policy as it relates to the um emailing or the service commissioner Collins so I agree with you entirely on what you just put out there in terms of having this expire yet having a public records how did you refer to it policy policy yeah I think that covers this better um a code of conduct I know at the time when this happened I'll speak freely about him because he does about me Mr ceny was behaving quite poorly and I know that this was sort of the product of that um in part but I think we're past that now I hope we're past that now and I think we could easily be able to have conversations with our commissioners uh with staff if there's an issue I don't think we're going to get to that point it served its purpose at the time um and truly there's you know there's only a few mechanis by which you reprimand your commission as they're elected the governor removes you right you can have a recall or people get tired of you and they vote you out you know so this sort of Toothless thing I don't I don't think it makes sense to try to expand this and add more to this code when it really code of conduct when it really doesn't do anything anyway it's just something we sign when we come in and we really don't even have to you could say no and there's you know tell otherwise those are my thoughts I'd like to see it expire see it expire yeah there's this has no purpose other than generally putting out I mean do you disagree you feel like this is uh with no teeth I mean there's no nothing that can happen if we disregard all these rules you know we shouldn't we should respect each other but at the end of the day today that there's no penalty for breaching the code of conduct anyway we just sign it when we come in and then it just sort of sits there commission Reed do you have any comments regarding this the only thing I see is if anything needs updated in this code of conduct I just quickly glan through it and it talks about five minutes for non-agenda items I think a lot of issues um and and this is not obviously not a personal Tech I think you do a great job mayor rich with holding um meetings professionally but I think a lot of it could be reiterated from you towards fellow board members um keeping them in line when you are the chair you're in charge of the meetings so I think if someone's getting out of line and maybe being inappropriate or crossing the line I think that's where you can reiterate them to remain professional um towards their fellow board members potentially um just some advice like I said I think you do a a great job with getting thrown into the mix being The Chair by the way but in my opinion just being a little more forthcoming towards the fellow board members or just reiterating what public comment is um even allowing me to speak I know we're not supposed to engage the public so I will call some of them if I have their cell numbers I do have yours Albert I will reach out to you on those agenda items just little things like that um not asking for for an exception um but yeah that's all I have to say yeah thanks I'm um I wanted to follow up from where Mr Collins was um talking about this not having any impact um simply because it's not in the charter and the charter doesn't um require it but I think that it's important that we have some guidelines and that we know that the guidelines are there and that we sign them so I had a couple of questions um and I'm going to go back to this page 95 that you mentioned um earlier um Mr Reed but Mr bagot um do other communities have the code of conduct any code of conduct in their um Charter or guidelines or even um our Personnel Direct Miss Johnson is here I know that she deals with staff Personnel not with the city commission we're elected officials but you guys know other communities and you know what happens I've I've done some research on it I know the the the clerk found a resolution in 2020 adopting a code of conduct in CMI I know that the city of Port St Lucy didn't have a code of conduct but it was a it was an annual document that Michelle berer referenced when she was here um that they adopted Ed by resolution as well that was subject to updating Etc but there was not an ordinance or a charter document that was um adopted that I'm familiar with um anywhere yeah so I don't see any problem with it but I think that whether or not we have we continue with this we do ask the citizens to listen to the civility we put the civility on our um thing and it's only proper that we have civility to towards each other among the board as well as when we communicate with our um those who come in front of us whether they're applicants or whether they're just citizens having some concern we absolutely need to make sure that we're professional and that we're obeying that so I think that it's important and some of these are very very common sense but it needs to um we need to follow it so following what you were saying on page 95 and I hear Miss Paul has mentioned this I don't know if when we had changed the 5 minute to 3 minute but we actually have the notes in here that says five minutes and maybe that's something that okay clerk Yes actually that was voted on and changed just realized that it's still in the code of conduct and it should should have been changed correct that's one of the things that we would have to update yeah it's still in there at 5 minutes Al just to be clear the mayor can change it yeah right and and then that brings me to another point that nowhere in the code of conduct even though it's in rules uh Universal where we conducting a meeting and that meeting is conducted under Robert's Rules and maybe we do have it in the charter Mr um city manager or City attorney I'm not sure but I know that since we've had um marriage acting as mayor I think in an effort to to make sure that the meeting flows he's had to implement and reference several different um ways and sections of the um Roberts rules and so I think that um uh we probably need to be very clear uh as to meetings how meetings are conducted I think that there's a very general statement in the charter about calling a meeting to order having a quorum and all this stuff but again um you know maybe training might help we've had a meeting a meeting or two where I've seen some very horrid behavior and um I just thought that it was really strange actually and um I I think that you know um when when we speak we're speaking hopefully to come to a consensus and if we don't agree then there's going to be a vote and the vote will tell what it is but we I don't think we should as members try to put our personal opinion and say that it's it's a city commission the city doesn't want multifam or the city doesn't want railroad tracks or whatever it is we're in discussion but saying that the city doesn't want something when we have not made a decision together as a body to me some of those things are I don't I would say it's crossing the line but it's it's that type of expression is not um positive for us so I think having guidelines are good I don't want this to expire I want us to update it and keep it and use it as a way to guide ourselves and where there's never anything wrong with having guidance it has things here about travel the phone email how to deal with staff members how to deal with um the public I have heard from uh folks that they are very demoralized whether they're people who have a business here whether they're people who work at the city of Steward whether they're people who come in front of us it throwing around the word transparency is just not enough people really want um communication and I tell people my door is open I'm available call me come sit with me I'm there and I'm sure that all of us are saying that as Commissioners but I think that we really really need to know that people want to be able to have that confidence in us and when our staff and when members of the public and when people who are seeking to live in Stewart or work in Steward or um buy property in Steward and they notice all these things that are happening uh it gives us a bad name and starts a bad reputation and I think that we need to consider our ways govern ourselves accordingly and just make sure that we're really civil to each other what we expect from somebody else towards us we need to give it towards them also that's it so I Mike we don't have to vote on this right it's up for discussion and deliberation I was yeah I was just looking for some comments from the staff I can or from the board I um I have a few comments okay Mr city manager um I was trying to follow along there with you commissioner Clark I just like to point out a couple things that are actually benefit us as Commissioners and also looking out for the staff um remember as Commissioners we only have two direct employees that is the City attorney and the city manager think of your staff how hard it would be if they felt they had to answer to seven different you know six different bosses in a rotating cast and it it's it's actually in here and underline do you know where it is yes uh to speak to staff first page very first page I don't believe it is well I believe that and there's another section too yeah conduct with staff page 100 page 100 okay let me find item four okay Roman numeral four so the first page says pursuant of the Florida Municipal officials manual this is it commission except for the purposes of inquiries and investigation City Commissioner shall deal with the city employees who are subject to the direction and supervision of the city manager solely through the city manager and neither the city commission or any of its members shall give orders to any such City employee either publicly or privately which depending on the individual circumstances could be deemed harassment um I always whenever I want to go speak to staff or have staff assists me at length yes I will always ask the city manager just to make sure and I know the staff appreciates that so I'm very happy to see that uh spelled out specifically and in detail um was that an issue before or after Tom C Benny oh it's an issue it's Mr Mayor it it was an issue is it okay well I mean whether it's in the whether it's in the code of conduct or not the city of Stewart has what's known as a city manager form of government yes in the Florida Municipal officials manual the city manager form of government as mentioned on the first page of the document says under the council manager form the city manager is the chief administrative officer of the city Commander supervisor and coordinates the Departments appoints and removes their director prepares the budget for the council's consideration and makes reports and recommendations to the council all department heads report to the manager the manager is fully responsible for ad Minal Administration the manager is expected to abstain from all any and all political involvement at the same time the council members are uh the council members and other political leaders are expected to refrain from intruding on the manager's role as chief executive council members are expected to abstain from seeking to individually interfere in administrative matters including actions and Personnel matters some City Charters provide that interference in administrative Matters by an elected City official are grounds for removal of the elected off official from office now for what it's worth that's in the State of Florida Florida Municipal officials manual the reality of it is is that you know we obviously have never had that problem to that extent that a City Commissioner has been involved uh in administrative matters to that extent but the city has also been a Le much less formal place and and and I think we take pride in the fact that the City commissioners know the directors and speak to the directors and meet with them and talk to them directly about things but there have been inadvertent situations where um employees have been uh directed to um meet with or or performs matters for um that I don't think it was intended to circumvent the city manager at all as much as it was just intended to expedite something but that has come up but I think it protects the employees is the main thing the other thing the best advice I got and I guess this is to you commissioner Reed who's um regarding Sunshine is from commissioner campy and he goes you are the public record I don't care what you're doing saying what device you have in your hand you are the public record and to as great a degree as possible if someone sends me an email on my person I I re I respond to them I say I am sending this to my city email please and I will deal with you through my city email so as much as possible I deal with the city email all my appointments are made uh uh through the city of Stewart through um Nina now um and that just makes sure so I get a public records request I'm just like hey you know go ahead give them everything you got there um but that really you know if you can do that to as great a degree as possible tell don't send tell people don't send me in P to my personal email anything to do with the city oh take um and then finally I guess we betray our age commissioner Clark to to see the value of this and um you're right there's no overt enforcement mechanism commissioner Collins you know what the enforcement mechanism is is your signature your attestation you're signing this document when you take office and say I will adhere to that and to me that should be sufficient um and I hope you feel the same way I would I very much would not like to see this expire commissioner Clark makes a very good point we expect a certain level of decorum and behavior from the public and we certainly should hold ourselves to that as well um it's common sense but it never hurts to be able to refer to it but and that's my feeling Mr Mayor yes commissioner Clark um I I I would like to um suggest if possible and I did ask Mr mortell to look into this to see when was the last time this occurred was that if we even needed to take a couple hours and to have some type of retreat where we have somebody talk to us maybe Personnel can suggest uh an expert and just have us put our differences out so that we can be able to communicate better with each other when we're up here as a board we're never going to always be on the same plane on everything but at least we can know that the body of our knowledge and our history is being transferred and it's being um some things are being understood as to some of the I don't know the culture of the city or whatever you people may call it but it's so important to know where um some things are coming from uh like um this was brought up today about the community um people just want to be able to know that you're interested in them and interested in their neighborhood and I think having us meet together as a commission um in a workshop type situation might be uh very helpful um in the climate that we are at this time because I I know that staff's morale is not where it should be because they see us not behaving up here and they they don't like it and they are people who so what is the possibility of having a a short Workshop or something Mr what topic would it be commissioner clerk we've done the retreat before on analysis the swath um um the threats to the city is setting up we have a um the city's the city's plan which is our um we have the neighborhood and what was the name of the plan again I did it we have the long-term strategic plan strategic plan and so for what it's worth we obviously have a lot going on right now as it is because we have the zoning in progress so I'm not sure that I want to have more with that just from a scheduling perspective um but if the commission ever wants to have a work up on any matter I'm happy to coordinate it and get a moderator or get somebody together for it I think that the zoning in progress is probably going to result in some more workshops that are also going to result in us having the potential for needing um outside Consulting advice depending on what the circumstances are so we might find ourselves in those situations already and I don't want to create some burnout where we're over scheduling the board right over the board and the public I hear you um the purpose for tonight wasn't to um accuse anybody or to infer that there's some misbehavior or misdeed going on it was really to bring up the code of conduct based upon the public comments and commissioner comments we've been receiving recently and see if you want me to bring back an agenda item addressing the code of conduct um in what way and well I mean I can bring it back amended I can add to it those things I mentioned to it and like I said if you had the you had the pleasure of voting it down or up or other or otherwise you know as far as I'm concerned I'll be happy to I'm not interested in amending it or trying to further it or take expand it it's uh you want it to go away we all know how if this document that you sign on day one isn't what governs you dayto day it's who you are it's how you interact with people trying to expand this into something that's that's more threatening or controlling of people's behavior avior I think is is more totalitarian we're all adults up here some of us are younger than others I don't think there's a need to Workshop about how to communicate you know I own my own business I've been in business for 12 years Sean does too um Laura like there's none of us need to be telling any of the other of us how to behave or communicate differently we all represent different aspects and um groups within the city collectively we represent the city yes none of us needs to tell the other one how to behave or act or think so uh to me this is obnoxious this is um unnecessary most like you sign this on day one before you know anything else before you know that you don't even have to you just sign it as part of all of your other paperwork and it goes away this is you know I don't know I think this is a waste of of time and energy even talking about it when there's a a million other things that we should be talking about at your emo Workshop did they talk about documents like this and their value or lack of value they did mention once it's in the charter it's much harder obviously we know to get rid of it um I will say that I'm probably more concerned with code of ethics at the state level and Sunshine Law violations because when you start reading through the punishments on that it's much harsher than this um there's times where I've caught myself obviously um if I was inappropriate towards a fellow board member um that's not my goal obviously to do that um same thing with staff and you know it's funny like to to carry on to what commissioner Clark said I actually had some people from departments throughout my entire campaign and even after I won they wanted to sign wave for me they wanted to donate to my campaign obviously I advised them not to sign wave for me or donate to my campaign publicly because I didn't think it was appropriate for them as much as they wanted to support my campaign and I'm talking from the police department to utility workers um it was astonishing I was stopped constantly when I was door knocking or even when I was down here at City Hall um so um I try to get along with staff very well and I think I acknowledge that every time I do sit down and speak with them even when I disagree with staff um I'd like to think I'm very polite about it and personable and approachable at least I'd like to think that um obviously if someone thought otherwise I would imagine they would bring it to uh the city manager's attention and I personally haven't um had any discussion with the city manager about myself being inappropriate towards any staff members or any fellow board members I'd like to think Mike would reiterate those concerns no I understand and I know this wasn't targeted I I actually believe it's been a healthy discussion and and you know maybe some things should be updated in here I'm not saying get rid of it but from what I understand it doesn't uh articulate a code of contact for elected officials which like I stated in the beginning of my statement Florida ethics and sunshine laws is much more of a harsh punishment towards me as a board member and I do take it very seriously um obviously shown throughout my speeches and I've only been here for a short brief period of time but I'd like to think I do conduct myself in a professional matter for the public um and if anyone disagrees I'm always open ears for discussion um and like I said I try to be polite about it so that's probably all I have to add to that um thanks so Mr mortell this is sunsetting well it it it it doesn't have anything go ahead there's no expiration date on it oh okay he was as I I I assume that commissioner Collins was asking to expire it oh but there is no active expiration date that was part of the conversation do we want to amend it do we want it to expire do we want to expand it because there's also no actual date on it directing staff to continue it or bring it back either so it's kind of been kind of a a limbo thing that I wanted to get the direction and identify it and address it based upon what you've said I will put in a agenda item together we'll put it back on the 12th and then we'll let the commission vote on it up or down then sort of around amending it is that well I mean I'll bring in the draft language as it relates to the uh email or the server and the Tech you know the studies and the also the public records policy and amend stuff like the five minute thing and I think that like if you read this document for example tonight even I referenced page one commissioner Clark referenced page 101 on the agenda item but it was like page four or five in the agenda or of the document because it's redundant and there's issues that are brought up multiple times that need to be cleaned out and I don't you know it's hard to read and it's hard to follow so it at minimum it needs cleaned up and reorganized mayor I think it's pretty concise sorry if discussion is over I just wanted to let you know we do have one public comment if you wanted to okay I would appreciate and who would that be Mr Andy Noble Mr Noble okay so I have two minutes I'll be very brief three uh I am not technically you have five oh but I'm not even better I got plenty to fill I'm subtracting two so just to be clear I am not a publicly elected official I'm an appointed member of the CRA board by a member of the past member of the board uh I'm listening to this whole thing tonight and by the way thank you all because you were participating in our democracy reconizing as that sounds I really think that's wonderful um I'm disturbed at the crisis that I see happening on this commission uh and I've been in three different states I've lived and I've been very involved with govern government and this is really really out out in trouble as I see it I've been intimidated tonight by a board member and since I can't name that board member I'm letting you know that's unacceptable and and for a board member to Advocate that there shouldn't be any punishment for their behavior that's a problem for the city of steuart uh change is inevitable okay but the agenda of this board I was at the the bright line meeting public meeting that was out of control and Sir you're you running the as the mayor of the board I thought you did a fantastic job but it was out of control it was not handled properly there needs to be a certain decorum I think we we were all talking about that uh I am I'm three people I'm a steart resident that is served and represented by the elected City commissioners I'm also a resident taxpayer and I'm a CRA board member so that's my view as I see it uh I I am I'm I'm taking some quotes down but but I think before I even give you some of these quotes what is civility this is in our very document that we put out let me read it to everybody civility is caring about one's identity needs and beliefs without degrading someone else's in the process that standard definitely was not met the night of the bright line hearing civility is more than merely being polite okay that definitely was not met the night of the bright line civility requires staying present even when even when those persons with whom we have deep rooted and perhaps strong disagreements it is about constantly being open to hear learn teach and change it seeks Common Ground as a beginning point for dialogue it is patience Grace and strength of character civility is practiced in our city hall civility has not been practiced in this city hall I I evidenced it firsthand I saw it it was disrespectful to the chair which is the mayor than I the the uh by one of the commissioners and I I'm sorry but I shouldn't come here as a as a nominated CRA member and be confronted by a board member of this Committee in an intimidating fashion and a threatening fashion which did happen and I'm making you all aware of it that tells me that we need to have some kind of rules about this I I really think that we elect the government that we deserve and maybe that's the problem what's going on here right now is I think this Board needs to take take a really hard internal look at itself and the members of this board and what happened in August which this is not an elected Le represented government board in my opinion this this is a this is something that happened in August and we even have a board member now that's not even coming to the board meetings that's a problem that's a crisis too because we can't even vote and get Beyond a two two tie so anyway with that said I'll I'll I'll I'll end but I have a real problem with being intimidated personally by a board member and that's all said Thank you Mr Noble is that it Susan that is all mayor we lost Mr Reed commissioner Reed Mr Brinkley long as the door is open you may walk through it again Mr Brinkley listen I'm a minister I have to answer to who God I'm a servant of here I want to say this to each and every one of you you have a responsibility from God and that that that comment about don't miss church and state then you need to read Romans chapter 14 veres 1-7 you have a responsibility from God they may have voted for you all but God put you there he put you there to carry out the law of land you go back to biblical time when kings didn't do their job God removed them God put the law in land for you all to carry out the law of the land read Romans now chapter 14: 1-7 you all have the responsibility to car out the LA of the land we have a responsibility to obey the lord of the land so it starts with God it don't start with no written man rule it starts with God that's your responsibility to do what thus says the Lord not what man say we all have to answer and we all going to have to give an account on Judgment Day that's where your responsibility come from is God you're a servant of God God put you there to carry out the law of the land and I tell you again read Romans chap 14 ver 1-7 I'm a minister I'm a servant of God I have to answer to him not man you all have to answer to him just like the gentleman want to address if we come up here and make a comment we would like to hear a response to what we come up here and for don't sit up here like a a a a dead be animal don't don't have nothing to say we would like to have a response for our comment like he wanted to address and it just like no you can't say that that's not the way government supposed to be run we got too much dictatorship in government today on all branches from Washington on down to the state on down to the local government it shouldn't be no dictatorship cuz I'm going remind you one thing God put you all there and you got to carry out the law of the land the gentleman should have been able to respond that's not the way government supposed to be run I get so embarrassed when I come into this door to see way this government is running here and it's on all branches of the government this is no dictator country but it's beginning to be run like dictator this is a supposed to be a free country but it government is run like a dictator you all need to take a bite take a step by and take a look cuz this is not pleasing and again as the gentem spoke about that bright line KN that was really embarrassing thank you Mr that was embarrassing to the city ofart and to the residence she say that is all mayor um I think I have sufficient Direction okay thank you seeing no other items for our consideration this meeting is a jour thank you thank you Mr Mayor